Boom, howdy folks Anthony Johnston here today co-founder of the red man group founder 21 studios 21 convention 22 convention 21 University 10,000 of things on the internet pay track convention all kinds of cool stuff You guys know me as Anthony dream Johnson, and I've been doing this for 16 years now The channel itself anyway Now in today's episode of the red man group episode 170 This is a world exclusive interview with two of the main faces and features Of the recent viral documentary amazing disgrace by church militant today on the show we're gonna have Joe Enders He was basically the face of the documentary who kind of led the viewers through it And he was also the interviewer in person throughout the documentary interviewing the victims and the the accusers and the documentary that exposed Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson as a male groomer and homosexual super predator So we also have in the show today Pat Rooney who worked with Jesse Peterson for I think 15 to 20 years At the bond nonprofit organization in California So throughout the show, I'm talking to them interviewing them asking them questions having them address some of the facts of the documentary the Controversy surrounding it and some of the questions people have I will take good questions throughout the show from the comments If you're not just some jerk and you actually have a sincere question And I have a lot of my questions as well Now before we get into the show quick shout out to our sponsor, which is our own event 21 summit The Woodstock of the Manusphere Super Bowl the Manusphere coming up again 16 year anniversary this October 14th to 17th in Orlando, Florida Some of our speakers have lightning eyes up here Obviously, as you can see I'm Mount Olympus Jack Donovan Coach Greg Adams Richard Grannon myself Elliot Hullus Pastor Michael Foster and many more speakers 21 summit is actually a total summit with three individual conferences or conventions inside of it Including the 21 convention for men. We're gonna make men alpha again The 21 convention patriarch edition or the patriarch convention as we now call it Which is basically for fathers and husbands at a later and more family-focused stage of life And finally the 22 convention for women You have to be a birthing person that has periods and all that kind of good stuff to go to that event You cannot be a male. So we got these three events at the same time. They all happen Friday through Monday, that's October 14th to 17th pretty much all day about 9 a.m. To 5 p.m. Each day It's an amazing super professional event Come on out get tickets and right now you can bring a friend free and through Sunday night You can save $1,000 off of your ticket a regular ticket or your VIP ticket And there's also a virtual ticket to watch it pay per view For the men's event only not for the fathers of the woman, but we do have it available virtual for the 21 convention Get tickets bring friend free hope to see you there make me in person. All of our speakers is pretty awesome There's gonna be almost 30 speakers total between all the events and it's a super awesome time I love it. It's my life's work and I'm really good at it And it will help you take action and kick ass in life and stop being a beta male Now without further ado in this three-minute ad for my own event Please let me welcome to the show mr. Pat Rooney and Joe Ender Hello Joseph, good to see you. How are you Patrick? Good to see you again. Very good. Thank you Yeah, I appreciate both of your guys time coming on the show today the past Just to lay it out there very simply the past week for me as an entrepreneur and as a youtuber and Someone who knew Jesse and was a business associate to some degree of Jesse We filmed for example my company his bonds men's conference 2021 last year in Orlando as well as him being speaker at our events That's pretty popular The last week for me from my position in my perspective personally has been really wilds And I really appreciate both your guys time coming on my show today to answer some of my questions Questions of the viewers. I have personal friends watching right now who also knew Jesse and They'll help price some good comments for us and questions in the chat And also just the work you guys both deserve a huge shout out for the courage and the hard work on the tenacity It took to step up and produce that documentary And in the different roles that each of you had and I want to ask you each about that and how it all developed But sincerely thank you for what you did and I know it took a lot of courage and a lot of people who are upset about The truth of what's come out are not taking They're not observing that correctly and it's serious and that's what has been frustrating for me Is a lot of people a lot of it's kind of split, you know people how they're responding to it Some people are getting it other people are rapidly skeptical to what I think is an irrational degree And through that they're covering up the fact that they don't take the allegations and the testimony seriously For men who were abused and lied to even if they weren't abused so it's different per You know per person Anthony first of all, I want to thank you so much for having us on And I have watched what you have done since this came out in the way that you have taken jesse on in such a bold way Is very rare and I really really appreciate that very much And I want to say to joseph and the team at church milton who I met a lot of these very nice people Joseph is a warrior and this guy put in Major work to get this thing done it was and most probably mostly joseph with some help from others But I really really appreciate what you did joseph No, thank you. I appreciate that and it wasn't just me you know the editor on the project ryan siebel put in a lot of effort on this whole thing and And so did our marketing person max douglas ryan murphy making those promos cutting those things out promoting this product for us And obviously all thanks to the person that made this all happen senior executive producer michael for us All of these people played the instrumental role giving everybody the tools that they needed to turn this into the production That has the internet going wild right now and more importantly Exposing the abuse that has been taking place over the past 30 years upon Yeah, a woman of that a woman I'll control the other Now one of the there's been there's been something that that I want that I want to note about this whole thing We saw him at the studio um I would say I think it was march that we had him in here for an episode That we were doing of just a just this nice little special live event called Why aren't you catholic because we had some questions about why he wasn't catholic and when and jesse said he had some questions too So we bring him in to go and talk to mike about it And you know I the thing was I love just I love jesse lee peterson He was one of my favorite people on the internet. I would love listening to his stuff. I would love how he was against fornication I would love how he was against homosexuality. Wow. I love how he's against all those things I was a fan of his for almost a decade I have no interest in ruining something like that The only reason I did it was because I felt that the evidence was overwhelming First of all and second of all because I could not With in my good conscience let that happen It's the only reason that we made this documentary and the other aspect of this whole thing is that he has a huge Following of young catholics and as a catholic apostle it we cannot have young catholics Following a man who is engaging in these behaviors. We call out bishops We call out priests that do this whole thing and yet now there's this other guy who's not even catholic That's going out for going out Preaching the young catholics gaining a following a young catholic. We had to do something about this. It was a moral obligation I I can say that as a former fan of jesse lee peterson. Nobody ever even nobody ever even asked They just assumed that we were out to get them Yeah, yeah I did not Go ahead patrick. We're gonna say it's amazing to find you guy. I didn't even know you guys existed I didn't know anything about church militia at all other than I could figure out your catholic at a certain point And it didn't you know, you guys didn't agree with us on everything as far as scriptures and so forth But but I didn't know you guys were so hardcore because I grew up a catholic But I grew up kind of a liberal catholic and they didn't have much punch to them You know a morality of the catholic church is really sunk over the years. It's really really pathetic So it was really kind of a nice surprise to find you guys were out there to begin with well, ironically enough the Ironically enough so the catholic the catholic church The the the sort of leftward lurks that it's been taking has been largely spearheaded by a lot of people in and outside You know the hierarchy that are suspected of covering up homosexuality or potentially even being homosexuals themselves Yes, so, you know, it's funny that that's kind of the the the crux of the issue that that that exists with jesse And exists with a lot of these other people now jesse was interesting because he was actually He was actually promoting, you know the family a lot of catholic social values, you know The hierarchy of the family he promoted He promoted opposing marxist groups like black lives matter These are all things to celebrate as far as ideology But to know that he's doing this stuff behind the scenes kind of changes your tune when it comes to how you view jesse Peterson as a leader and and as a spiritual advisor Well, let me I want to interject on this One of my old speakers and a very close friend once told me that and this is just kind of a You know fortune cookie philosophy, but I've always taken it to heart because I think it hits the nail in the head And he said to me that the way a man does one thing is the way he does everything And while that might not be literally true There's going to be maybe an exception here and there and your life as a man or someone else I think that holds true here and particularly holds true with public figures Like jesse who are so bombastic and so outspoken And that's one of the reasons he spoke at my event is I had a lot of alignment with them too on these different issues I liked that he went after feminism really really hardcore and women being the slut makers and after you know all this kind of hyper promiscuity stuff that we have in dating culture And politics to you i'm a trump guy, so I like that. He was very much on that So I had a lot of alignment with them too Including like, you know eight days ago when if you had told me this stuff I would not have believed you would have been like wait what? Which was kind of my initial response when I first saw it people seem to be being bombastic now Yeah, I didn't know you were a fan of him for 10 years Joe that's a big surprise to me and I wish that had been in the documentary Well at least in the description maybe when we're doing reports. We try to take the reporter, you know out of it I'm just basically the portal to you. You know the portal of the information going to you I didn't really want to make this about me I wanted the you know the evidence to speak for itself But you know doing this interview kind of gives me the opportunity to kind of have a heart to heart with everybody here Let them know that I love jesse leap you go on my facebook and see a video with me With probably the biggest smile on my face ever when he came to the studio And and and we both just look at the camera like Amazing That that you can go look at that video it was posted in march while he was at the church militant studio Well Joseph also you interviewed him on youtube that you did by yourself several years ago Back in 2018 Very friendly interview by the way just so it's clear I have almost 100 agreement with jesse on issues and spirituality Um with very little the only thing is I think he's by the way he said some of the things he said I think he's forced people in the other direction just by the way He's gone about some of the things but as far as what he believes I have very little Um Not in common with him and just one more thing on that just so we kind of put it out there You guys had roey masters out at the beginning of the video who was kind of his mentor Um, as you know, joseph, I'm I'm not against roey. I know you guys have theological Disagreements with him, but roey masters I think probably saved my life as a young man in terms of learning about his meditation And so I think he was a good man who did Everybody has some flaws, but he was a decent good man who helped millions of people Around the world now i'm forever grateful to roey masters and i'm forever grateful for whatever good Came through jesse lee peterson. I will not discount that No, I don't think we should be discounting the good that anybody does I mean all good things come from god even if they come through you know, not necessarily the correct means Right. I mean this is just the simple philosophical conclusion that that saint augustin came to And then no one of the documentaries is saying that roey masters had anything to do with any Do with any of this or anything like that. We're just I just wanted to kind of explain the foundation jesse's foundation and um and just kind of move from there and and once again Yeah, I mean me and patrick obviously don't agree on theology. I'm a catholic. He's a subscriber to uh, roey masters you know silent meditations and And I believe it's sort of a you guys don't believe in christ divinity for example That's something well. I believe that christ as jesse and roey masters did is now deceased Believe that uh, jesus is the son of god. We don't believe right, but not but not god correct Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then the catholics obviously You know we're about the holy trinity where it's three persons one god So that's just that and that's our that's our difference of difference of opinion So for our catholic audience who wanted to outline the theology that he was coming from first and then kind of move in there But we we as far as as far as we as far as we know I mean, obviously nothing is impossible, but it doesn't seem to me that roey masters No, he did not have anything to do with this. I can assure you Um, I want to add here that at this point not personally This is just me but in my observation and in my relationship with jesse So based on that anyway and what i'm seeing now with the documentary And I believe these allegations are 100 true at least fundamentally Uh, so each person I believe that Beyond any shadow of doubt that jesse has engaged in homosexual activity That he's been grooming men that were in the documentary and probably a lot more I don't know how many more, but I'd be surprised if it was only the men in the documentary very surprised Well, I can tell you that it's more. I can tell you that it's more You have to understand anthony that when I came out with this I uh when I started writing about this in a kind of circular way at first I only knew about my experience that happened fairly recently and a young man that jesse Did some wrong sexual stuff with and then used a spiritual trip on him I knew him from way back. He didn't come out. He didn't want to come out for this documentary But I knew those two things and I and I knew if something happened way back when With this young man if something happened further down the line with me way further down the line It's pretty obvious that I believe that there was something going on in between and once I started putting my information out That's when other people like samuel and the others came forward Yeah, and thank god you guys did because it's you guys are you have the courage that these other men Haven't found yet and maybe they will and maybe they should god will uh I don't you know, there's no way to demand that they do but given what's going on It's the right thing to do to step up because people are being hurt and being abused I consider this uh in some ways it's it's fraud and a commercial sense Jesse is pretending to be these things and and jesse is probably in my opinion the most notorious homo basher on the internet I don't know anyone now that especially the rush.  Now he's allegedly a christian so i'm not uh You know, he's congruent to his alleged faith with that, right?  And the fact that he is also behind the scenes Engaging in these behaviors and then on top of that collecting money through a 501c3 nonprofit This is fraud. This is I don't know if it's criminal fraud per se, but this is like Financial fraud or commercial fraud moral fraud. It's religious fraud I had never even thought of the word until the other day religious fraud Because i'm not involved in religious matters on a regular basis. Some of my friends are their pastors and stuff Jesse's not the only pastor we've had speak at the event But this is it's just such a bizarre concoction of fraud And it makes me really angry that he lied to my face for all these years and all of my friends and my speakers And my customers and my fans And the whole community of the hemisphere never mind maga america first all this stuff america first now is divided Milo is one of the most prominent voices in there He's spoken up that this is true and that he's confirmed the allegations in the documentary He believes them 100 percent and now nick fuentes the other america first groper or whatever they call him He's attacking milo and he's saying that you know all this is all bullshit and that to me I've met both of these guys. I know both of these guys loosely speaking I met both of them milo much more so than nick. I've only met nick once But it's it's causing a big divide and rightly so I guess because it's a very serious Set of events and that's what is also like I mentioned so frustrating is that these people aren't taking it seriously You guys are you know patrick you didn't come out and say that you know 20 years ago You know you and jesse and a couple of guys from bond went on the cruise jesse got drunk and made out with the stripper Like that's not what you're saying you're saying you had a 10-year homosexual relationship with jesse lee peterson This is not funny like this guy is the biggest, you know gay basher on the internet And he's a christian pastor self-proclaimed Yeah, I think we're I think we're dealing with something even deeper than just sex here and I've said this from the get-go Um jesse is in the bible. It describes people who are self-deceived Uh, they actually eat their own food so to speak And if you watch jesse's Speak in any given situation He is i believe he's deceived himself or the devil has deceived him so well that he's he believes all this stuff internally And his theology kind of goes hand-in-hand with the stuff that he says for instance when he got on the church militant show and said that the Uh, the jesus didn't rise necessarily in the body or it didn't matter He what he's done is he separated the body from the spirit and and michael vorges I believe his name is the the the man who works for us Sorry about that. He kind he nailed him on that he caught that It says if you separate the body from the spirit you can excuse all sorts of horrors And this is what jesse's done. He says even to this day That it's all about the heart and that once your heart get you get right with god with your heart He'll take away the rest of stuff. Don't worry about the rest of the stuff Well, don't matter that for jesse god up until I know never did take this stuff away So jesse, I can't believe that his heart really did get right to begin with if he didn't take all this other stuff out of jesse too Yeah, and I think one of the most profound parts of the documentary just just you know writ large was the one part where you talked about how after your first sexual experience with With jesse that you that you actually had said from then on he started saying it meant you were born again Which is obviously the Protestants call that that that is a that's an allegory for you know that part of your baptism Yes, what you it from from a Catholic perspective, you know baptism is called sacrament And that is a blasphemy of a sacrament That was a huge deal to tons of people and I heard about that not not not even from atheists They were like that's kind of messed up that he would do something like that when you take something that's meant to be pure That's meant to purify your soul That's meant allowed that that's meant to empty you of the sin that you were born with all of those things a sacrament of such great beauty and love And purity and to just just just to make it dirty and disgusting and Nasty it has this natural effect on human beings when they read it And that then that's why I put it in the documentary to begin with because when I heard I was just like oh That was what I want to add here. I want to add here that I'm not a Christian. I'm not a Catholic I mean I was raised as a Catholic You know baptism first communion confirmation all that I haven't been a Catholic were Christians in 16 17 years But as an atheist and an objectivist I did watch that specific part in the documentary a couple times over When michael was interviewing jesse in your studio at church militant And regarding jesus rising out of the tomb or not. It wasn't just that jesse denied it That wasn't really what happened. It's that he was flipping and indifferent to it. He didn't really care Yes, like he wasn't in a way. He denied it and that's what seemed that michael was Focusing on but much more broadly as an observer who's not a christian I'm like this guy doesn't even seem to care This is this is supposed to be a religious church leader who literally runs a church and a nonprofit Who doesn't really care if jesus rose from the dead or not?  I don't think he believes any of it. I don't think he cares about jesus I think he makes it all up. I think it's a big act That's my honest conclusion based on what i'm seeing that it's all his huge character He's created like a like a radio character and that the real jesse is the guy behind the mask Who's a predator and a homo a homo predator which made me laugh all day saturday when I first heard that term I've never heard that term. I think we actually I think we might have coined it at church militants I think we're the ones that came up with the term like years ago for other reasons obviously it wasn't just for jesse Well, it's the way it's the way you delivered it too. It was so serious and sincere You're like this homo predator I mean a lot of people I talked to you were laughing so hard at that and that's why I came up with homosexual super predator I was like, let me let me let me emphasize what this guy's saying Yeah, let me let me let me say something about the things that jesse did and did to people and then use these spiritual tricks Which I think is just horrific I mean it's one thing to do something essentially with them and another thing to play spiritual tricks The first guy that I that didn't appear Um, this happened many years ago What happened with him is jesse inappropriately was touching him when the guy fell asleep. That's a story that I heard And I believe that's what he would corroborate And then when jesse was caught when he woke up and said like what are you doing jesse jesse's response was This is what fathers do now That's really incredibly beyond the pale to hear something like that And he did something similar with that was shown on on the video with with samuel He had samuel close his eyes going to a meditative prayer And then told samuel don't believe all eyes All all all thoughts are lies, which he always says every sunday at his service all thoughts are lies all the time And don't believe any thoughts meanwhile. He had samuel his eyes closed inappropriately touching this guy and telling him Getting him to think all thoughts are lies therefore don't freak out when you when you see and feel me touching you I mean, I don't know how bad it can get beyond that Uh, you guys might be familiar with the the three f's or the four f's so fight flight freeze And the fourth one is actually fawn in trauma psychology And this is what like children do when they're in abusive relationships and their parents beat them or molest them or whatever And fawn uh, it was also about freeze obviously is maybe the one that's more important here And I think what jesse Consistently did particularly with samuel and probably a few others Is he tries to push them into a freeze response? And that's part of why he's trying to get them to distrust their own thoughts Like hey, I have alarm bells going off get out. I'm not safe I was abused as a child like I think samuel clarified that I don't know if you were patrick, but I believe samuel made that I was about eight years old Yeah, and that makes you vulnerable to going in my understanding of my own amateur study of trauma psychology It makes you vulnerable in the future of going into a freeze response When you have that same situation come back because when you were a kid That was like your only option if you couldn't run fast enough for fight as you were a little kid You freeze as an attempt to protect yourself, which doesn't work But it comes back as an adult and he's trying to uh, Cokes people back into that. That's the purpose of saying that in my opinion Yes, I I agree with that part and like I said in the video when jesse first came at me in In the motel room or hotel room in virginia jason at dc for the event that we were there And what he did was just as I said in the video by it bears repeating here He turned and looked at me all so we were talking on the near on the bed But we had been friends for decades very close turns on me in the bed and says What do you want to do? In a louder voice and I'm even using in I was shocked and I realized later that You know, I you may not be religious Anthony, but I realized that the devil usually shocked to get What he wants let's put it this way evil uses shock So it's kind of like that freeze thing you were talking about. I was like I was shocked when he said that He kind of took me out of my normal kind of state of mind in a way And um, it was very weird, but I do want to say by the way and I said this to joseph before I don't call myself a victim in the sense that I was people asking well was it get sensual all this? Yes, it was consensual for me. I don't claim to be a victim per se I do I do people should know that yes I was molested as it as a kid and then I went to jesse when I first met him To help he was going to help me overcome the state of mind. He was going to help me overcome this sin That was the agreement. I started to Um, uh consult with him, you know, he was my counselor and instead he flipped that on me So I'm just saying I'm not a victim on one hand But I do want people to understand the way that he used Tactics on me and other people as well Very devious. Well, let me let me uh, I do want to I want to address that really quick That's why we called you a victim In the report and and the report did label you a victim because you had that counselor role with him And the aspect with as which is true with a lot of these other cases It you know, it doesn't matter that you were underage It doesn't matter that you were that that it was that it was consensual or not per se in your instance What matters is is that he was in this role of authority Above you this role of counselor this role of getting you in a position of vulnerability in order to help you And instead abused it that's still predatory behavior. Absolutely. Absolutely This is what people don't understand and it's really easy to get on the internet and see people's streams and say Well, that guy would have touched me. I would have kicked his ass, you know Um, that that may be true if you were going into the situation Uh, didn't have vulnerabilities uh traumas in your life And you didn't put a person on a particular pedestal to begin with so that Everything that person said or did You made it okay in your mind because you had to believe that person over yourself You put them in a weird zone where they're you're actually putting them above you And so everything that they did that might have looked odd along the way You I would consistently and other people would consistently just throw it off and say oh, that's me I'm not looking at this right. He he must be doing this for a reason.  Hey, maybe he's not actually You know sexually preying on me right now. It's not come syndrome. Yeah, it's common among victims of this It's extremely common and if people don't understand the context of those things And they say I just punch them in the face Well, you got to understand the victim psychology in in these scenarios, especially when it's in these counselor, counseling, pastor, parishioner relationship Everybody wants to consider themselves a tough guy But uh, and some people would respond if they were normally centered and so forth I'm one of those people. I feel like I would jack somebody if they do I have that feeling inside of me, but I've also never been in that scenario You weren't molested as a child Joe. I think that's that's where these people are not they're not empathizing even a little bit They're just having knee jerk, you know, I'm a alpha chat. I wouldn't let him do that Well, you weren't touched as a eight-year-old kid like you can't speak from that position And I have empathy for those men who have been through that it's sick Yeah, and I there actually came a point and I told Joseph this I don't think it It may have made it into my larger interview But there was a point where I was realizing obviously like my conscience was talking to me and I couldn't get away from it And I realized at some point. Okay. This is wrong. I got to stop this I came to Jesse and said no, we can't do this anymore. This is wrong And he was like not taking me seriously and he kept trying to do stuff with me It got to the point where I was stupidly sitting in his bedroom one one day after I said this to him He started coming on to me. I said no, I'm done with this stuff. He kept coming after me I said no he kept coming. I just took my my hand like this And grabbed him by the throat. I said you're not going anywhere I grabbed him And and there's nothing he could do he's backed off and then I just left the the room. I just drove away he um He called me a few minutes later while I was on the road and just went off on me Just said never do that to me again You never do that to give me again and then all of a sudden he caught himself and realized that he was out of control angry, which he always counsels people not to be And and then all of a sudden he backed off and then used the other personality. He's a master at using the hot and cold You go out. He's a psychopath. I think he meets the criteria for the harris psychopathy checklist This guy's a sociopath. They're psychopath. This is a predator. That's what that's what makes me so mad is all When it all clicked for me the big picture of what had happened and what was going on In bond and on the internet and on youtube and his little cult and the victims and everything like that for decades now This guy is an actual predator and is a psychopath or sociopath and is like seriously ill in the head Which doesn't excuse anything.  Well, I think about this. I had written Five articles about Jesse going around about not using his name And I had had three conversations with him after writing these articles. We one of them was for 57 minutes We had actually pretty good conversations My wife looked at me though and said, you know, he's he's playing you Because he was he was using our old friendship to kind of pull me in he actually on The long conversation. He actually offered me a job To to be part of his 24 hour conservative radio network And it was so laughable Because there's no way in hell he would actually do it And when I had called him before originally about this and and told him no we're done and all this He actually offered me something as well He said he was doing some real estate stuff with the guys in LA some of the young guys and he said After I told him all the stuff. I don't want anything to do with you He said, well, can I send some guys to you that are looking for properties and stuff because he knew that I was Getting into real estate at the time And I'm like, no, that's not the best of a good idea right now So after that after that conversation the last one I had was in my written five articles already But we're still relatively friendly everything changed When I heard samuel's story Because then I realized this is new And and the timeline on samuel's story Was after I had already written five articles in a roundabout way And talked to jesse three times on the phone in a friendly manner Then I found out about samuel everything in my switch went off on my mind. I said no, this is it I called jesse immediately after I talked to samuel and I just yeah I couldn't get jesse on the phone at that point, but I just yelled it out I said I said what in the hell are you doing?  There is something wrong with you. I heard about samuel. You gotta stop. You're sick You need some help Let's clarify too samuel is less than half the age of jesse lee peterson. He's 29 30 jesse is like 73 Yeah, so 30 jesse is maybe 72 at the time this stuff was going on So samuel has his own story But that's why everything slipped in my mind maybe it flipped because it was no longer me anymore And it was current and once once I realized he was doing something currently with somebody It wasn't me. I said that's it. Then I started to use his name. That's when I that's when I started to Use his name in the articles. I never used his name until that time I was trying to originally do this in a very roundabout way Knowing that there's probably other so-called victims out there But I didn't want to yes, he had been a friend of mine for so many for decades And I was still had that friendship thing going I really didn't want to like destroy him or hurt The organization and that kind of thing so I kind of worked my way around about as much as I could until I couldn't be around about it anymore after samuel now this now just just to clarify here This was another trend that was that that that we caught on when it came to the none of all of them were Were kind of on the fence about it samuel. I know was on the fence about it too There was a lot of people that that were like jesse has still done a lot for me this that and the other And and and it's like an ally and I told them on the phone if If everything you're telling me is true You have to do something about it, you know, you can't stand on the sidelines and allow him to do this First of all, that's not the best thing for jesse because that just gives him a justification to continue doing what he's been doing Yes, and and and and in that case that's that that was the straw that you know Broke the camel's back for samuel and he decided to come out and say something with his face Using his name which took a lot of courage on his part by the way But all of these men didn't want to do this to jesse and all of them have a proven track record of having a close Relationship to him and not wanting to hurt him in any way This is something that was that was across the board the case I joseph I wrestled with myself for months Before coming out on this stuff And I think I had to do some convincing Yeah, that's right to get you to come to the church militant studio And I eventually told my family which a lot of people piled on me for telling my family, but I had told jesse what happened was just to tell that real quick I had told jesse was on the phone and said I don't want anything to do with you anymore after this We're done But jesse kept calling my wife and my son And jesse was our godfather. He married myself and my wife and he was my son's godfather These are recent recent phone calls. You're saying well when I was a couple years ago now But but but he kept calling them and um, I it's bothered me quite frankly it bothered me Let me let me be clear That means there's a track record in a paper trail this that these records can be pulled and one either directly by a customer Or through a subpoena Through a court just saying like people are saying there's no paper trail. There's a paper trail of what you're saying Yeah, yeah, there was so I I told him I don't want anything to do with you And then he was calling My wife and my son and he wanted to keep the same relationship with them or get or use them to get close to me again Whatever the case may be and I said I can't have that it bothered me at the time It really bothered me and so I called him up and I I forgot the first thing I did. I think I called him up and said don't do that, but um, I ended up telling I ended up telling my family about this Because I didn't I wanted to just put the whole thing clean I wanted to come clean to begin with and I wanted them to know what had happened I broke the cardinal rule of jesse by the way, which is never tell your wife a cheat on He used to say that in church all the time and on a radio show probably still does Wow Well, I don't think he still does but he used to for sure you could find that on anybody could find that on On the internet.   He thought jesse could literally walk on water as I said in the video And he was mostly mad at me because he thought jesse was perfect. It would never do anything like this So he demanded that I get on the phone with jesse and talk to jesse about this with him there I did and jesse denied it right away.   Yeah a second phone call Uh, I don't maybe a day later whatever it was. I don't know what the timeline was with my wife on there as well So jesse did apologize. I will give him that he did as I've said to meet people many times He did who can you say that can you say that again? He admitted that he did what you accused him of? Yes, he he apologized to myself my wife my son. We're all there on this on a group call um That we all know that he did it and When I pushed him he finally apologized He was denying it for a while And he said he's how sorry he was and we wanted to stay close to us and all the stuff But obviously his the way he acted after that showed that he had no interest in talking to his congregation No interest in uh in coming clean with the stuff in any kind of way to me if you're a christian minister Um, you owe something to god and sins against the body Uh, you'll never hear by the way, you'll never hear jesse quote Any scriptures in his church were sins against the body are mentioned or sexual sins But in in in the scriptures it says that sins against the body are the worst sins of all And so um, but but he will never mention I forgot my train of thought there But he will never mention those things at all and uh, doesn't believe in talking about those things in church So I want to change gears a little bit. I want to focus on church militant and joe kind of your angle here From your perspective. So what is the history of church militant? Uh, I wasn't familiar with the organization at all. I looked into you guys pretty quick You had a big youtube channel and big facebook following good following on gab and stuff like that Um, I had friends kind of looked through you guys's videos kind of random videos They would pick and they would kind of get a gauge on what your ideological positions were with politics and culture and religion and stuff And they were pretty pleased at what they saw. They were like, hey, this is obviously not some Democrat, you know super PAC feminist organization trying to do some hit job You were very much most people a month ago would have said you were very much aligned with jesse Maybe not theologically but in a lot of other issues Lots of fans There was lots of fans of jesse at the crossover. We interviewed him twice Yeah for this and then we had him in our studio for a third time And and we planned on having him come come again to debate the holy trinity And you can actually hear that at the end of the debate with michael voris if you listen to wow So we actually had planned on having him come back to the studio because we honestly We had a wonderful time with jesse while he was here He brought his producer nickanzala's with them and and and and and it was it was good. We had fun We got we we grabbed burgers. He loved he he went on record saying he loves what we're doing at the beginning of the debate as well He liked us. We liked him. There was no bad blood at all Yes, we disagreed on theology and michael voris would describe his theology as whack because I Personally agree with that statement. I mean denying the resurrection denying christ divinity and stuff as a catholic That's just heresy from our it's heresy. Is it blasphemy or it's heresy. It's Well, I mean what jesse's doing is blasphemy. Yeah, I would I would say I would say it Can it arises to blasphemy to deny god his righteous position? So it might be in my theological position Can I make a point here? Yeah, go ahead. Maybe i'm getting ahead of you in your comments and you want to wait on this but And you can tell me if you want to deal with this now or later But one of the biggest things we're hearing from people is Oh, where's your proof? Right? First of all, obviously, I witnessed testimony works in court everywhere in the world as far as I know, right? Um, and and all of us know all of us. I mean, I've known this guy for 30 years I've worked in every phase of bond for 20 years. I've done fundraising. I've managed the office I've been on the board. I mean, I've done everything you can think of at the bond Everybody knows me at the old in the old congregation. Okay Everybody knows samuel the mexican car wash boy in the new congregation. We are not mysteries to people And when people say, oh, why don't you get a picture of this? Why didn't you get a video of that? Why didn't you get a text of this? They're not necessarily thinking about how things actually would go in real life I was friends and very close to jesse the whole time. You think i'm gonna be going around Uh, trying to sneak pictures of him and and get videos of him or secretly recording when we're still friends Or i'm still even when I called him out with my with my family We've still we're close to him. I wasn't thinking I needed to go Trap this guy or something. Maybe I should have maybe I was a dummy But I wasn't thinking that way. We were close with jesse So people kind of need to like realize the way things actually work in life It's not it's not neat like like people want to make it to me and I keep hearing the same crap Over and over and over and it's really absurd If you know it the background all you gotta do is check the background of the people That's the problem that people don't that people don't know this this is this is common I mean, this is why this is how priests and bishops get away with abusing children get away with abusing seminarians Which are grown men that are learning things by the way. They're not kids.  There are there are priests that are doing it There are rectors at seminaries that are doing it and they have to rely on eyewitness testimony now in your specific case They're asking for oh, where are your tech? Where are your dirty text messages? Where are your this? Where is your that and the other I was like well last I checked you were married at the time during that Happened and both of you would be trying to keep that relationship as secretive as possible. Hello Nobody nobody's using their critical thinking skills when they come to these conclusions Go and ask what you're asking for hard evidence. What do you think they made a video? Yeah, are you kidding me? Jesse just one last thing here. Anthony. Jesse is not a dummy. He's not a dummy. Okay He's a very smart dude and a lot of that I think is a devil working through him myself, but Jesse doesn't you think jesse is going to go around and make texts We know you don't think we heard of edward snowden before or anybody else You you you think he's going to make text to me saying hey love you man and start making saying Outrageous things to me over a text or we're going to make some kind of video together or something like that You don't understand the relationship whatsoever if you keep asking for the stuff either that you don't understand it Or you really are secretly trying to knock us out and really are secretly a pro jesse person You know you know what patrick I'd like to ask everybody in the audience a quick little question right now How many of you guys believed in the in epstein island in the lolita express before there was hard evidence But when there was just I when there was just eyewitness testimony when there was just Rumors of it going around and things like that allegations lead to hard evidence Yes, absolutely, and and really there is a trail here too And I guess if somebody had to open the crack this thing open at some point There there obviously are Somebody probably tape. That's probably the government But but these conversations were made on a regular telephone. So I'm sure that somebody has records and stuff Well, there's definitely records of the calls and that's not going away They're as a customer of sprint or t mold or whatever They're only going to give you access to so many years of records But the records they keep are permanent They don't get rid of them and those can be through a discovery process in a civil lawsuit never mind criminal You can get those with a subpoena pretty easily And if this does go to court and maybe it should that's going to get revealed And jesse's going to panic. That's why jesse hasn't really responded yet We're going to review soon is one response. He's made one line. He's given so far Which he then deleted by the way They won on the youtube editor on their channel on youtube and actually deleted it very quickly Of course, I of course, I downloaded it before they could delete it because I know I've dealt with psychopaths like this before in the mana sphere I had you guys will find this on my youtube channel I had an ex-wife who I found out was a escort prostitute Lifelong including when we were together And yeah, it was pretty it's pretty nasty And I woke up one day to find out my wife was a hooker. Wow Yeah Well, there's a speech on it I gave called marrying madhu marrying madusa how to survive a female psychopath And that was my first experience up close in personal life with someone who had lived basically a double life like jesse And was really motivated and practiced and persistent and hiding it Really went out of their way to hide it to live this double life And that's what that's what got me interested. This is back in 2016 when this happened We were together for four and a half years in 2016 is when it went up I'm sorry. I was wondering how you knew how you zeroed in on jesse and what he's doing so quickly You just answered my question. Can I say I spent just real quick I've spent since then on and off but especially the first two years after 2016 I spent a lot of time studying psychopathology trauma psychology predators dangerous personalities. Joe Navarro One of our speakers is an fbi agent. He was an fbi criminal Profiler special agent for like 25 years. He worked at the secret service fbi all kinds of stuff Even he used to work protection for the pope I'm serious like this guy. He's major public figure. Joe Navarro. You can check them out And he went off. He was a predator you're saying no, not Joe Navarro He's he's written a lot of books on this on body language. He writes pretty much on body language is one of his focuses He's the most popular body language expert in the world. His books have got sold millions of copies But also he studies dangerous personalities. That's mostly what he did for the fbi for 25 years was profile and study and interview people who are murderers serial killers child predators rapists like Really serious stuff that the average person unless your law enforcement has very little interaction with You might see you actually meet these people in your daily life at the grocery store at church Whatever and you have no idea It's like one or two percent of the population who are really really screwed up like this I'd love to see him react to the video and ask And then have people ask him if those if those victims That are in that are in that documentary are credible according to his professional analysis given the Body language giving their giving their giving their knowledge given their knowledge given their anything Matter of fact, I challenge I challenge him to do that. I challenge him to do that I have full that's the thing. I have full confidence in my investigation I have full confidence in the evidence that I've uncovered that it will lead to a conclusion Yeah, I like and I'm and I welcome any expert to go and analyze that. Yeah, I go ahead debunk my report I dare you. Yeah, I would like to I'd like to know too because I see these armchair Body language experts on the internet And they're saying oh, I saw Patrick or who or anybody else and oh, yeah, they're lying. I know I'm really good at knowing and all this stuff and I'm laughing I'm kind of like laughing to myself like wait, you know, but I don't know right I'm the one Patrick according to Jesse.  So, you know, which one is it?  Yeah him deleting the clips him running from Martin Francis and trying to deflect on his past sins When he's asking him about his his current sins his ongoing sins You can see the guilt you can see you can see the guilt on the face If somebody if somebody went up and said that to me to you or anybody if somebody said hey, you're having homosexual sex I'd be like no, I'm not never.  He's known Jesse. He is the greatest um Helper volunteer Um, giver of money giver of time even servant practically. I mean he was giving he was Getting Jesse his breakfast and food every day. I mean the guy completely went into serving He was like an old Catholic too. A lot of us ex-Catholics are into service. I guess Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get all you back by the way. Yeah, he was all into that Martin Jesse knew Martin for 30 plus years.  Let's deal with this. None of that was done Doesn't that tell anybody who really is looking for the truth? What's going on here? Well, here's the other part of the problem. I hear a lot of people complaining about this I hear I've heard this a hundred times. This guy's a meth head. He looks like he's on drugs Is that and the other like you know what dude? He has cancer. All right. What's wrong with you? He has cancer. Yeah. Yeah. Well on top of that Let me that's I read about the two that he has cancer But on top of that let's back up to what you said earlier, Joe and it may be patrick as well Jesse set up an entire church an organization to specifically target And basically pray upon Men who are damaged and wounded and were molested and on drugs and getting out of jail that I don't know exactly what his timeline of his motivations in life for how exactly crazy this dude is but he basically over time set up this organization or Utilized it to target and pray on people men specifically right not women so much He has some women fans, but mostly it's men and this is who he targets with bond It's for men rebuilding the man not the woman. Yeah, this is getting to the nitty gritty here, uh, anthony because i'm going to be totally Clear here honest is I can be I've had trouble even Almost to this day with that idea That jesse would have I don't even know even to this day if I believe that he believed He was setting this thing up as a predatory a grooming predatory situation I think the devil was working with him from the get-go I don't know if he fully was conscious of that and I still think that in his mind He thinks he's helping people week to week. Oh, yeah, I really do I just want everybody but I want everybody to notice what you're saying right now This is once again think of this as an outs and as an outsider looking and remember i'm a reporter I had to do it that way I had to look at this as an objective observer more importantly I was a fan of jesse because obviously I didn't want this to be true Yeah, I don't think you would either anthony, you know, I mean none of us wanted this this to be the case But I had to look at him, you know, like from you know from 10,000 foot of 10,000 feet above And see what he's saying is true and when I hear when I hear him saying defending the organization I know it's actually helping people know it's doing this. I don't think this is why he was doing it This that any other these are nuances that somebody that's out to get somebody typically would not do you would have to be a master class manipulator to be able to do that and and to have five master class manipulators Sitting sitting up, you know sitting sitting down with me and telling me things that the the odds of that are insane It's just it's just it's just not there all of these nuances existed in every single Because I have phone calls with all of you guys for hours on any before I even produced this thing. Yeah We know that I talked to you for at least I think I've talked to you for a total of 12 hours before I made this documentary Wow, you're talking to me. Yeah, just you We had some very good conversations and I once I didn't know that you were so young because you had a great knowledge of this stuff And I guess you guys have a lot of experience with it, which I respect a lot in your own church I didn't know you were so young and and I'm not putting that against you I think it's a step for you because at a young age you've learned a lot in life and I commend you No, thank you. I Appreciate that and church church militants itself is it You know, they're described not we don't describe they we've been described as the catholic church's special victims unit I mean to be perfectly honest with you We were kind of like at first with the story We were kind of like this doesn't really relate to catholics at all And I kind of I kind of had to push back and say this guy has a very very large Following of young catholics. I mean he's he's got a lot of young catholic followers in america first Manisphere obviously as well I mean, there are young catholics that are looking to this man for spiritual advice And and when that was done because we our job isn't to expose Home as a catholic though, you know, you you also care about other christians. I'm sure You know, I know that there's I know you have differences with protestants and even even the orthodox christians But for example, and am I understanding, uh, you know the pope and stuff fixed up or mended a lot of relationships Do it with the orthodox church back in the 60s or something? So you don't want to see them get preyed on by orthodox priest or protestant pastors. This is sick I mean not anybody in general, but particularly not christians And that's the thing these things are extremely hard to ignore You know, but my my only point is is that our focus is the catholic church We don't we don't have people coming in and talking to us about protestant stuff We focus on stuff going on the going on in the catholic church But you can even see in the documentary that that you know the way that the way that jesse propositioned patrick For sex the first time it was word At least almost there might have been one difference in the word word for word the same proposition that father to land made So I think it was a 17 16 or 17 year old boy that he was talking to on the phone Like he said something like what do you want to do? Yeah, what do you want to do? And then the guy's like I I don't know just like you were when you first when you were first proposed and then he's like No, what do you want to do? Yeah, is he that's the exact same thing? There's only so many ways to there's only so many ways to prey on people You know and it's not surprising to see these similarities in two completely unrelated cases A lot of people that watch the video are like well these two things are completely unrelated Yeah, that's the point. They are unrelated Physically but not spiritually. It's a spiritual thing. Exactly. Um regarding, you know Somebody said I just saw someone in the chat said the jesse is innocent until proven guilty And I just want to say to address that real quick First of all, I never was going after him in the court You know, I'm not saying what will happen in the future But I certainly have not intended to go after him in court what I wanted to do was first warn any other people that were The jesse might have been preying on at the time and I figured there were some at least I wanted to warn them as best I could without being true too obtrusive about it first And then I also wanted to warn jesse to stop what he's doing And I told him on the phone at some point. You need to come clean with your congregation What I would I believe it should do is step down I would I think he should disband bond because yes, yes Even if he even if he was to just step down, there's no serious elder structure at bond There's no serious oversight at bond You have basically people who are loyal to him Like hake and like others. It's a cult It will loyal to him and and if jesse stepped down in person It's kind of like brock obama stopping his two terms and putting joe biden into office It's going to still be the obama agenda I want to make clear that I've met hake at bond 2021 in orlando florida last year And I think that he is fully aware of this and I think he's having sex with jesse lee peterson That's just my opinion based on meeting them. But that's that's my opinion Even as a reporter and an investigator, I don't know but I can't say what robert santa robert santa's story Appeared credible to me. Well, yeah, it appeared credible to me once again Like like we never we didn't say at the end jesse lee peterson is guilty You know as a reporter. I wouldn't be doing my due diligence if if I were to say something like that I'm not a reporter. I'm an entrepreneur and I'm claiming this is 100% Legitimate that the fundamental allegations are true and I'm willing and openly challenging jesse lee peterson to sue me over this And I've stayed that in writing. I'm not playing I've told you are 100% free to do that I've told her mayas did I've told her mayas this who no longer works at bond who is samuel by the way recently Disclosed on tony brunos channel. Um about two days ago That and her mayas confirmed this with me to an extent on text I haven't writing that he was one of the top guys at bond. I've known him for a couple years now This is a great guy. I've known him for years too. Herb is a friend of mine. You know, I'm a good guy in my opinion I don't think it still works there anymore by the way. No, he left and samuel disclosed. This is samuel, right her mayas told me that he left bond in april He didn't he told me the reason why was that he wanted to start his own pr agency his own marketing So he disclosed to me very recently This was surprising to me that he left bond in april of this year Samuel disclosed on video the other night From the documentary on tony brunos channel that her mayas number one. Samuel went to her mayas about these problems her mayas confronted jesse about these problems Her mayas figured out that it was real and he left bonds basically immediately This is this is so he no longer works. So it's a fact. I have that in writing Samuel disclosed and confirmed that to me and then disclosed on video in public Just the other night that the reason her me is left was because of these this problem So I don't think her mayas was Having sex with jesse. I don't think he was I think there's a mixture of people at bond Who are aware of this and who are not aware of this and it's a big secret All right I believe personally as an opinion not as a fact But as an opinion that hake is fully aware of it and having sex with jesse That's my honest observation is seeing them interact in person and talking to hake hake face to face I can't prove that but that's my honest Estimate or guesstimate based on what I've seen. I don't think her mayas was having sex But I do think he became aware of this and and he left Yeah, this does lend to a point made in the documentary You know how he would how how the grooming the grooming the alleged grooming that was going on in In bond where he would where he would come where he would come on to somebody just a little bit Just kind of feel test the waters and stuff and when he realized he's a groomer. He's a groomer I think that's what grooming is really you test to see who's yeah He's testing the waters He probably tested the waters in a way that ermias may not have even known about And because of that, you know, ermi he never pursued ermias and ermias had no idea what was going on This this can happen. This sort of thing can happen I just assume that he knows something and once that that's just me giving ermias the benefit of the doubt here Nick Gonzalez might Nick Gonzalez might not know either. I don't know who knows and who doesn't know per se Yeah And just as far as James and ermias are concerned Ermias like I said as a friend and I'm not going to disclose our private conversations right now or what You know ermias is said to me, but but I do say that he's a good guy And I'm not going to roll him a bus in any way if he wants to come out with whatever that's going to be on I want to add too that I have never had a problem with ermias He has been my main point of contact at bond for years and he's always been professional with me and respectful And I have never once had a problem with this guy And he did not disclose to me why he left bond Except that he wanted to do his own Uh business But sandal disclosed on his own on video two days ago that this is the reason he or may have left bond Was he found out the truth? Okay, um And as far as James hate goes again James hate to me was always a decent person You always I always felt like James was a decent guy. I thought I knew him pretty well Now after the stuff came out He uh, he told a mutual friend of mine of ours that I was a liar So I called James up to ask him about that and to say how could why would you call me a liar? And James never answered now. I've also sent James some of my articles along the way and he's never ever responded to me So what I believe has happened with James is that James came to bond as a very shy kind of guy James is hake James hake He came to bond as a very shy kind of guy and Jesse helped turn him into this kind of alpha male personality But I think a lot of it was kind of like just kind of Copying Jesse so to speak Yep, and to me God makes you strong if you're going to be strong It's because the Holy Spirit's working through you and I know you're not a religious guy Anthony, but this is just me speaking God makes you strong the spirit makes you strong Another human being in my opinion cannot make you strong They can give you some good advice and things like that, but they can't change your inner self And I think what happened with James is that he became kind of a Jesse clone or whatever and and His whole personality is wrapped up now in Jesse so If Jesse was to be attacked and Jesse melted down The the phony personality instead of inside of James would melt down too. That's what I think is going on with James right now Yeah I want to comment on something that was mentioned I've got just a couple minutes ago and it's the extravagant nature of the skepticism of the critics So it is a pretty publicly is just pretty split like the video itself on my channel anyway the documentary Which is the highest viewed version of it on the internet right now proud of that proud to help out I suppose this bs It has a About 62 like ratio to dislike So it is it is still mostly positive It's almost two-thirds positive But of the detractors who are and due to negativity bias people are much more prone to Lashing out when they feel something negative when their cult leader or their you know Their father figure is attacked on the internet with very serious incredible allegations They lash out and they're they're more prone to speak up than people who are like, yeah, this is legit Like I believe this I'm believing evidence of my own eyes my ears And they're they're logically too following what's happening here. So I want to say this A lot of the detractors what they're claiming that this is some elaborate criminal civil conspiracy And Jesse is a major threat to the establishment with his shadow band youtube channels This is not even plausible.  Let me say this I jesse has we'll go into his one minor response yet his little sentence that he did before he deleted it Jesse has not made a single public statement about this in public yet So when they say they believe jesse or something What do you believe what he has an answer? He has an answer. There's no there's no counter The only thing you can believe is that he's ignoring the allegations That's right if one side if one side is doing videos like this or i'm doing a live stream here It's a little bit vulnerable, right? And we did all the talks with joseph and all the stuff we put out and there's five of us talking out here We put all the stuff out there. We put our names on the line And what I pull people many times too is i'm married. Hello I have a family i have a son You think i'm some kind of fool that i would put all that at risk to try to go after this guy I'd have to be so burning with with hatred out of my mind that I'd forget the fact that I have a family There's a risk here and it's not a risk-free proposition And so we put ourselves out there jesse has not answered a single question at anything Watch the martin frances videos and your guys videos. He's been running like hell When he's confronted this guy pretty much looked like he caused an accident On pico boulevard because he was running away from mount up from uh for martin so strongly So if he's such an alpha male, why is why is he running away from martin instead of answering the questions? And then why would a group when why would a cat why would a catholic group like church militants? And I and I think I can speak for church militant when I when I make this specific statement is is why would we put our credibility with exposing You know homosexual predators in the catholic church people who cover up homosexual predation in the church Why would we put our credibility on the line for some youtuber that isn't even catholic? Why would we do that? Why would we waste all of our time putting wasting our credibility just for some little pop gossipy journalism? You know piece that that's filled with liars of people that we paid off and stuff That's going to put other victims that were other victims that we're trying to get you know shed light on Their their say in things our credibility is the most important thing to us at church militant We double check everything we content review things. We legally review things We make sure everything is 100 in order before we put out our reports and if something in our report is wrong We will issue a retraction of that thing So it doesn't so so we our credibility is is pristine So when we have a pristine credibility Why in the hell would we put it on the line for some internet pastor? Yeah, it doesn't make sense on any level At all but people again, I think people have their own preconceived reasons They're either jesse followers or I or i'm not sure what else they could be other jesse followers honestly Even if they are even if they are jesse followers who are asking for hard evidence What about the picture with patrick wrapped around him lovingly?  Hang on. Let's let's pull that up. I have that actually as I was preparing some of this as we as we go Uh one moment So here is the oh wait, I don't want I don't want that one pulling it up right now So this is the picture. Um, is this you patrick in the photo? Uh, let me see you'll see it. I don't see the photo On the screen No, no, no on on the right Yeah, that sticks in the hammer guy thought that he had the answers when he didn't know anything Um, yeah, the guy on the right is uh a guy that used to be at bond and kyle I don't know if I could say his name. Can I legally say his name? I don't know I know his first name. I know his last name too. I'll just I don't think stating a fact is putting you at liability Particularly someone's name, which is like just a fact of reality. I wouldn't worry about it personally. Well, anyway All they say his first name is kyle. Okay, and he used to be at bond and at that time I don't know what his age was but he was fairly young by the way I don't know if anything happened between him and jesse, but That would be a guy and other people I've seen along the way that would put question marks in my head Knowing what I knew later. Yeah, I mean that picture is if I saw that about anybody any man who claimed to be heterosexual Two men and I saw that Uh, I would have immediate suspicions that they're that they were having sex or something like that's about anybody Not just jesse and so I think that's their people They don't want to be objective and try to disabuse themselves of being biased because they like jesse or they like his message or his politics or whatever No, that's a really really really suspicious photo And on top especially when it's paired with all the extended hugging and stuff like that that was Uh disclosed in the documentary which I've seen jesse do that kind of stuff in real life Yeah, and liking the gay pornography images is the is the other aspect of this whole thing.  He doesn't really care about this. I don't think he cares about the victims I agree.  Yeah. Yeah, he's a satan worshiper too Which is really really weird and bizarre. Well, that's incredible. That's a credible source Well, he's trying he's trying to use to his position as a different religious background or whatever he is now a satan worshiper or whatever Well, as a satan worshiper, I assure you that homo predation is perfectly fine It's a sacrament, isn't it? I'm pretty sure So let's be let's be clear here that this this happened about a year or two ago with this gay tweet thing But someone what and the idea that jesse has no access to his social media is delusional There's no proof of that people alleging that jesse has zero access To his own social media accounts with his own name and he's just oh i'm old and black. I don't know what to do I'm a boomer. This is all an act.  Yeah, exactly and then they freaked out and they locked down the account This is all documented when it happened it was its own little deal on the internet I think it's archive. I'm pretty sure that people can go investigate for themselves So why so let's be clear here.  This is real. This does not a fact It's not a fact in dispute this happened. I like to call hard evidence Yeah, yeah So for those so for those asking for hard evidence I mean What else do you want and then on top of that and on top of that they I was being told I think I think it was kino casino that did a video on it. I don't know if this is correct or not So sorry kino casino if this wasn't you but if kino casino actually went on and unironically tried to tell me that That photo of jesse with that other man was doctored That's that's another thing that I heard that we doctored the photo So let me get this straight. So this is so this is the position of the super sleuths Over the internet that are trying to defend jesse lee peterson.  Is that what happened? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? What more do you need? What more do you need and like I said for them anything short of a gay porno Starring five men and jesse lee peterson will not be enough evidence for them So sticks, you know, take a look at the hard evidence. Don't ignore it. Oh and by the and that's and that's the other and by the way He in his video. I watched his video by the way In his video He would say oh, you're just complaining about him having long hugs with people just complaining about him having long hugs with them I was like, I'm pretty sure patrick said a little bit more than that I'm pretty sure samuel said a bit more than that But he decided not to add those specific details into his video which tells me that this isn't about facts for him It's about running cover for somebody and six if you're listening right now. You're a scumbag You know what I totally agree with that and I even put a long answer on on this guy's Uh, his name sticks on his uh on his stream because he purposely left out the evidence that made our point and he took the Uh weaker for lack of better term evidence and use that And and you are a scumbag if you do that with something that serious Yep This is a little meme he put up by the way of sticks being commissioner gordon and the dark knight running cover for harvey It just it just amazes me that you could make a reaction and once again Why didn't you make a reaction video sticks to the whole documentary? Why did you just go on and present only the evidence that you found? Compelling to your point which by the way, it wasn't even compelling to your point. You just lied you just lied Unless you didn't watch it I can I can accept this if he didn't watch it and just made a video running cover based on what he heard from other people I could totally understand Why he said the things that he said in those videos and then I would welcome him to just go ahead and watch the video himself Yeah, well, why did he also call it a mana sphere now? He clarified that in his video He didn't state that I produced the documentary blah blah blah But that isn't I didn't claim that it's the title that is fake news most I've seen sticks I'm pretty sure a comment on this that one of the main ways fake news works is not always just the content It's the title because most people read the headline they look at a picture They read two sentences and they leave So what did a lot of fans do on sticks's channel? Most of them didn't even watch sticks's video They watched the title they opened it for 10 seconds and then they went in comments.  Well, they read them the title which was mana sphere hit piece Church Milton is not a mana sphere organization. You guys barely know I didn't know much about you guys beforehand I think I'd seen you like a couple times beforehand and I used some video of of you because you guys are Like one of the main you had the main videos of jesse sitting around with young men I didn't I didn't use that to try and highlight the 21 studios is bad or that You know that then anthony dream johnson's bad or anything along those lines We just put it in there because there's video of him with young men And I didn't even know it was the 21 studios convention.   He's proud of so he's he he lies on a regular basis And the more that I step back and realize that it had nothing to do with just being wise it had to do with him Just being a compulsive liar. Yes. Yeah, so you pray on young men You say you make the argument that theologically that you can't necessarily sin with your body only with your spirit And on top of and then on top of that you allow them to go into this silent meditation in which they're supposed to Doubt all of their thoughts you put all of that together and on top of creating an organization That's supposedly built to help young men and what do you have? You have a match you have the perfect storm.  Anthony. I don't think he says that anymore. Uh currently does he? Uh, I think he does. I mean he has shirts. He still wears He's worn shirts like this for years on a show But I want to comment that allegedly in my understanding of Jesse before before the documentary and now and for the years I've known him In my understanding he has been celibate because of jesus and christianity For over 30 years. He's not supposed to have sex at a wedlock. Obviously He openly rails against that for everyone men and women both right slut makers woman or sluts blah, blah, blah Satan is your daddy. Don't have sex at a wedlock, right? So he hasn't been married ever. He did uh allegedly have one son a long time ago I've met his son. He's a nice young guy. He does have a son So since then though, he's never been married.   He doesn't hide it He doesn't lie about it. He doesn't BS about it and he doesn't make a big deal out of it And it doesn't interfere with him speaking at our events. He's met jesse a few times at our events briefly I don't think they had any other kind of uh dialogue or anything But he thinks it's extremely suspect on that this fact alone that jesse proclaims to be celibate for over 30 years Never once uh masturbating never once having sex with men or women or any of that is what he publicly currently Claims is a fact of his life There's almost no chance. This is true. There are celibate nuns. I told joe yesterday one of my aunts is a catholic nun for over 50 years I believe she's been celibate for 50 years. I could be wrong, but as far as I know, that's the truth I'm sure there are many other men and women who actually do this It's just really really really really really rare and really difficult That's part of why it doesn't it doesn't happen The urge to have sex is extremely strong and that he you know Is wearing shirts like this and yelling about forgive.   Yeah Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't it's not obviously not true And I don't know if he said that he hadn't masturbated.  I mean, wow Right the only the only sex is is obviously the natural way, you know, and so therefore this other stuff isn't that These are similar things that people have heard that groomers will use to try and justify their actions while being christian specifically in pastor roles or Or priest roles things like that. So this is just these are just the things that you hear I want to show people real quick an email. I put this on twitter So this is not new but a lot of people watching haven't seen it. This is the official email I sent to bond and or mayas To, you know, just say peterson's crew on saturday night About 942 p.m. My time this past saturday after I watched the documentary several times After I studied the body language and eye contact and the vocal tonality Repeatedly of all of you all the accusers and everyone in it all of you were coherent You were calm the allegations were not outlandish You know, you guys weren't claiming that jesse took you on a secret yacht and private jet And put on a mask and grabbed whips and like some amber heard, you know hyper dramatic nonsense A lot of the allegations were really mundane My friend pastor michael fosters said and that's part of what makes them very believable Is when people are lying they go to level 10 out of 10, right? And it's just it's like I've they watched too many movies basically and too much csi and all this stuff Right, that's why they want like all this extreme evidence They're like, oh, I want the videotape the semen sample the blood sample Written testimony in a confession and I wanted on video and I wanted signed with an affidavit and I want it now It's like I was I was thinking that too anthony that I think people are a little bit too Into mass media And they watched too many of these shows because they don't think like I said earlier They don't think about how it actually is to go through something You're not thinking the way that they think that they that you're supposed to be thinking But anyway, I know that hang on joe I didn't uh by the time I went after jesse and made my final decision on the truth here on monday this past monday at around 11 a.m. Or something I gave them a window of opportunity and I was very formal and professional here Hey, rameus this documentary by church militant was sent to me last night This film pictures myself features footage from our events with our brand visible Pictures one of our speakers and one of the accusers is a former 21 summit attendee Upon review. I find these allegations credible Does bond or jesse lee peterson intend to issue a formal statement on this matter? And or take prompt legal action with an attorney. Please advise. Thank you So I gave them 36 hours to and I texted jesse as well I have his personal cell phone number So I texted them that and I rameus then i'm going to show you now what rameus said to me He texted me as well Because he no longer works at bomb do so close to these people He then said hey anthony. He got back to me Later that night on saturday. Hey anthony. I don't not know. I think that's a typo I'll pass your question along to jesse best rameus He then texted me as well and confirmed that that he got the email and he would forward it to jesse So I gave people a think I just came out blasting guns of blazing like a cartoon character This is not reality. I reviewed. I first got this on a friday night I spent time listening to it then I was shocked at what I was hearing I knew some of the guys in the documentary samuel, obviously I was like, let me go to sleep think on this sleep on this wake up Review it, you know five times over talk to my friends Study each person and then contact bond contact. I didn't know rameus left at this point Not till he didn't tell me until after this So I was very slow fairly slow about this. I was like, let me let me go through kind of the basic professionalism here Asking them directly as a business colleague who they paid me thousands of dollars Are you going to issue a public statement denying this or even addressing it that you have an attorney You're going to do something with I was I wouldn't go public if he had told me we're lowering up And there'll be a statement on tuesday. Please be patient. I would have said nothing I would have said, okay, let me let me see where this goes and i'm going to be Play this by the books, right? Yeah And jesse of course didn't get back to me by text I got a response by email and even now a week later There's still nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing like jesse says right never never ever never never never whatever he says No, nonsense Now what's interesting pat will hold on one second pat it now the interest we did the same thing and we gave him I believe I The documentary came out on thursday And we on tuesday night had sent him a Sent him a email. I can reach you the email right now. I have it right in front of me Um, and I sent this directly to jesse's email and I also sent uh it to his uh, You know producer personal assistant I don't know what his Relationship was but when he came to the studio. He brought nick and zala's with him So I sent it to nick and zala's as well and I can confirm with you On my cell phone that I have text messages from him asking for his email And then immediately sending him this email after texting with him about it Yeah, so this this was sent to him It would be very shocking if he never saw it Well, clearly this is a hillary clinton cover-up and you guys are grieved with 800 grand in cash and a duffle bag like dirt I'd have a much nicer studio. That's what people tell us Yeah, um the thing about but patrick hold on one second. I want to read this email to everybody I read dear jesse some of your friends reached out to us immediately after the why aren't you catholic special? And said they enjoyed michael's debate with you. They also provided some shocking allegations against you personally I've been assigned a roughly 30 minute investigation into their claims I've spoken with five alleged witnesses and purported victims already all your former friends and former members of bond I wanted to give you a chance to respond to the allegations before our 30 minute report on bond and yourself airs on thursday at 8 p.m. Eastern time on june 16th at church militant dot com You'll have until thursday june 16th at noon eastern time to respond If not, we will be forced to release the report report without your comment We would be forced to we we want your comment. Please provide it question number one.   If yes, were these homosexual acts with your former friend patrick runey?  Have you ever touched samuel arambula's genitals?  Did you ever put your hand in your pants in front of robert santner in approximately the past 12 years? Did you ever ask to see arman martykeans genitals in approximately the past 30 years and question 10? Have you ever put your hand under martin francis's pants in approximately the last 30 years? If you would like to respond to any of this video, we'd certainly accommodate that request But again, it would have to be completed by no later than 12 p.m. Eastern time on thursday june 16 I'm also cc ng mcganzales your assistant to ensure you receive this email. Sincerely joseph enders senior producer church militant dot com And the date right here 6 14 2022 at 751 p.m Very good. Very good. Hard evidence and fair Yeah, um, I wanted to say we gave him a chance to respond. We gave him a chance to respond I don't think he will let jesse will not respond unless he's completely pushed to the wall and feels like he asked you Uh, first of all jesse. He's very stubborn person. I've known that for years people have said that about him Uh, people might mistake some of that for strength.  But if they're in a position where they can't even ask him basic questions And the way in the way he'll do he'll talk during I just saw his last church He says kind of pseudo spiritual things like He says there's no Past okay, there is no past There's no future. There's only the present. There is no past So he's using Spiritual things again in a way to make him Feel okay in other words if I haven't if I haven't groomed someone Or been a sexual predator against somebody in the last five minutes It qualifies as the past So in his own mind, he's making it okay And he's making his people afraid to ask any questions because they they know that he's going to come back and attack them If they ask anything and that's really really pathetic This goes back to the groomer behavior that we were talking about earlier. This isn't uncommon And this isn't an this isn't an uncommon tactic and we saw it with father to land in the documentary so You mentioned that if jesse won't respond unless his back is up against the wall He has given a tiny tiny response that was then deleted. Well, we need to look at it in a minute um, I want to state that I don't have any uh Targeted or special malice for jesse. He's someone I considered a business colleague and a distant friend until a couple days ago Um before I realized what had been happening How he had betrayed all of our fans the manosphere Christianity bond Parade on, you know specific men lied to my face, etc. Etc What I do want to say is I don't have any particular malice against jesse but I do hate all frauds and all predators And I it's beyond any shadow of a doubt to me It is 100 confirmed in my mind I'm certain on this that he is a predator and most likely a psychopath or sociopath And a clinical cluster b dsm five cents, right? But on top of that I have every intention of putting jesse and pressing him up against the wall Uh in a public pr sense to force him to respond to this And if I have to get an attorney involved, I'll do it I have an attorney who's licensed in florida and california And through my own channel and which is bigger than jesse's by the way Uh, which is part of the reason I wanted to step up and utilize and have courage on this I will push jesse with memes and videos until he confesses Until he confesses and or at least addresses the situation and I will not stop. I am insanely persistent I am more stubborn than jesse and that's going to work against him in this case And I will not stop I understand completely anthony and I and I praise you for what you're doing As I said, I think before we even did this interview the only disagreement I had is I'm a christian. I believe in forgiveness. It doesn't mean I'm forgetting jesse Actions I know these are not forgivable actions, but I must forgive him. I must forgive him in my heart In terms of what I do. I mean, I'm doing a show here. I'm not holding back and I think God bless you for for your attitude and going out for him very hard here I'm just saying it's not good for me or anybody to hate him inside Because that stuff stuff Will hurt you and it'll hurt your family. So I have been walking. I've been walking a line here I've been as open as I can about what this guy's doing But I also have a family that um, I need to be right with and if I'm angry towards jesse It will affect them So I have to kind of walk a line of not hatred but as far On the points as possible and not giving an inch if you understand where I'm coming from Yeah, and you're totally entitled to your opinion and I'm not going to hold it against you Like I told you an email for being consistent to your deepest convictions as a christian And and other whatever other personal philosophies that you hold dear to you So I don't mind that uh with the forgiveness and you're in a much different position than me You actually were directly involved with this way more than I was as a You know having to speak at my conference and stuff like that But I'm looking at it as an objectivist as an atheist and as a man and as an american And as a patriot who loves my country and I see this right wing grifter stealing money from people through lies and deception And basically fraud as a religious fraud who prays on hurt wounded men The man is fear is a place where a lot of hurt wounded men go to that's why jesse had a lot of overlap with it Not always with drugs and child molestations so much as like really nasty relationships bad divorces family court Um, even like me too stuff really truly false allegations that hurt men college guys Older men whatever so there's a lot of that in the manisphere and it angers me Uh, sincerely and genuinely and I have believed that I have a right in my opinion to this anger and this rage That I feel that you do as you see fit anthony. I wouldn't recommend the racial side. I admire the Uh falls to the wall kind of side of going after what you think you should do I'm totally on board with that. Let me just say something Hang on my rage has subsided a little bit I mean it was really the first 48 hours where I was like It was it was the portrayal hit me personally. It's I've known this guy. I've had long calls with jesse I gave him advice and we're gonna move in orlando. I had an hour long phone call with jesse Maybe three months ago. Am I about moving to orlando? Like this is someone I cared about I'm right there. I'm right there with both of you guys by the way I I liked jesse too and I considered him, you know after visiting the studio a little bit a little bit of a friend I mean I had already I had interviewed him two years ago on my podcast And he was one of the he was one of the few bigger personalities to actually come on and talk to me We had a great discussion on the hierarchy of the family. It was wonderful We learned we learned a lot about it and he would and he even complimented me at the end of the stream Go watch it for yourself And and and even said you're a very knowledgeable young christian this that or the other I didn't want to I didn't want to see this. I didn't want to see these these things be true I didn't want any of these bad things to happen But there was obviously this this this justified anger and just to give the catholic theological take on this thing You know jesus chased people out of the temple with a with a whip. He got angry You know you can be angry for just reasons in fact One of the most famous catholic philosophers saint thomas equinus share your familiar with it if you like philosophy Oh, yeah, I would say that it's actually it's actually vicious to not be angry at at injustice Well, what's that patrick? Just my last word on the anger thing because we could probably talk all day on anger alone But but I would say this And it's funny because i'm in i'm in agreement with jesse on the anger issue and that's and and other people But you just notice for yourself whatever it is whatever you think about it Just notice for yourself like you say you kind of calm down anthony over a few days Just notice if you're angry inside it hurts you You know, it's like it's like directed at somebody else, but it's in your body people get cancer from stuff like that So I would just watch that and notice how it's hurting you. That's all I would say about anger One thing I want to say I want just a quick response I do believe that if anything taken to excess can harm you and if I am endlessly angry and rageful or wrathful Uh, which is that a cardinal sin? I think Wraths Yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm not interested in Destroying myself with like psychological poison. So a little bit of what I'm saying is that purbely But mostly it's this courage and what I believe is morally righteous, which is to take down a fraud All that is all that a hundred percent. Yeah, understand. I'm a hundred percent behind all that Now let me say something about the grift Again, I think it's pretty funny that people are accusing us of Wanting first of all, nobody tried to take him to court here Now if that happens in the future, so be it, but that wasn't anybody's intention to take him to court I wanted to expose what was going on to see if other guys was this was going on with other guys And I wanted just you to be to back off and know that people are watching you. That's that's what I was doing Um, as far as like, what are we gaining out of this? I mean, obviously, I don't see any any gain Um, people say I'm making money and I'm making speech somebody said the other day I'm making a bunch of speeches on this. I'm making speeches on this Uh Oh, I think you're Oh, can you repeat can you repeat that? Well? Okay, you lost last thing I said. Yeah. Yeah, okay, so I'm just saying that people are coming after gaining something and I was making speech Patrick your internet is freezing up really bad all of a sudden Um, I don't know why but uh, it'll probably smooth out in a minute, but right now it's really rough We cannot hear anything you're saying Hopefully that helps sorry about that It might Is that helping it all right now on my back? You're back. Yeah for now. Okay. Sorry about that Anyway, I'll make it quicker. I'm just saying that people are accusing us of I haven't got money. I haven't made not making speeches Uh any but the funny thing about it is the person they're defending is like a class agrifter This guy's made millions of dollars on on what he's done including raising money to move three times That he's raising he just sent out another letter the other day I know people that he sent the letter to asking for money the third time where they haven't moved the first two times Where did that money go to? Yeah, it's a big scam big scam. I've seen other people do this too. They try to raise money on false pretences like this Yeah, they just make them excuses. It really makes you wonder how it really it really makes you wonder how uh serious Serious he is about anything that he believes at this point And that's the problem when these sorts of allegations come out with basically You know any public figure who's known for having strong opinions on strong issues When you find out he is not just a hypocrite but the worst type of hypocrite on one issue Then everything else that he's doing comes into question and and and it's actually interesting because like like like I had said before in the String Patrick will actually defend that point and say that he actually does believe what he says he believes on top of it Yeah, yeah, and I think he believes it. I just think that the devil as I said in my original article You know the devil got is working through him. That's the way I see it I I think I think he's people can be very convincing if they believe their own stuff And and the people I think the most convincing people are the ones who believe their own stuff Your internet uh froze up again Patrick Yeah, but if this keeps happening Anthony, you might start believing in the devil trying to shut him up, right? You might just have to uh, it's probably going to smooth out again But worst case you could restart your computer real quick or your router. It might smooth it out Um, let me let me move on here that I want to play The deleted clip that jesse's so jesse's team is aggressively hiding On a factual basis on multiple fronts now. They've blocked me on twitter. They've turned the bond channel their smallest channel It's about 30 000 subscribers The sunday church service has suddenly been switched to members only paid only chat On their on their main channel, uh, the main jesse lee peterson channel The biggest one I think they've turned chat to being a subscriber only for five days or more These are not normal chat regulations. They have on their platforms. It's much more open usually So on multiple fronts, they're hiding and now what we're going to look at is a short 30 second video I'm going to play it twice so everyone gets a real clear hearing of it When jesse was accused or not accused but questioned about this the other day on a show by a woman I don't know and she was uh jesse did respond to it very very briefly And it's since been deleted through what I believe the youtube editing tool on youtube itself From the stream earlier this week. They specifically took it down when it was um clipped on twitter So here it is for everyone to hear it should be audio too That should be shell is a first-time caller out of detroit Michelle welcome to the show you on the air Hi, how are you today? Oh, that's well, michelle. Thanks for calling I had a question. I'm just kind of confused. Um, why haven't uh You addressed the issue of uh the gay documentary Um, it's not concerning to me She says she was liberal. She was having doubts. She lied What a wicked woman tony is out of fresh Now can I I want to comment on that really well one uh before we I want both of you to comment on it If you can but one more time i want to play it so everyone has a really clear understanding of what they're seeing Here we go again. Michelle is a first-time caller out of detroit Michelle welcome to the show you on the air Hi, how are you today? Oh, that's well, michelle. Thanks for calling I had a question. I'm just kind of confused. Um, why haven't uh You addressed the issue of uh the gay documentary Um, it's not concerning to me She says she was liberal. She was having doubts. She lied What a wicked woman tony is out of Joseph you take Yeah, so I mean the first thing that I think we talked about this over messenger a little bit notice Notice how at the end that he says he says She lied she lied.  Yeah, but But that's and and then he says and then he says the wickedness is there for simply asking a question about the thing They're vetting people and they're blocking people and I knew that I knew that instantly by the way after the first day it came out And there wasn't one super chat or one caller even asking about this massive thing that was going on in the background And and and I think I even heard uh, I think it was baked Alaska on stream when he was reacting to the comments He's like you really couldn't take 10 seconds to just say hey I you know, I watched the documentary And I and it's and I deny this and then just move on You know, we're gonna look um, we're gonna look at a moment on when Jesse Lee peters and hung up on my girlfriend on this past Thursday she called in through the show and what you're saying is 100 true I'm sure Patrick can testify to you that as well as a former producer of the show They have a vetting process on the phone when you call the when you call that phone number 1-888 Uh, 77 Jesse or whatever it is to call in on the show and they ask you pretty aggressive questions right now I don't know if that's always the case, but right now. That's what they do And they're ask you it's whoever the producer is that's not Hank It's the other guy with the beard right now He asked my girlfriend a lot of questions on Wednesday when she called And they accepted her then to go on the show she was put on hold and then the show ended before she could get through She called in on saturday. That's why that's what you guys are seeing here This is her phone record so she called in on that was on wednesday and then this is on thursday four times then seven Because when you call in sometimes you get like a beep because the producer's on the phone someone else or something So you got a call call call and then you get through call call call get through So on thursday then when she did this they put her through the vetting process again She said that she called in the day before and the show ended before she could get on And they just kind of went through the same process again. What are you calling about? What are you confused about where are you from? What's your name blah blah blah? Now we did have her prepare a story to get through this process because it's manipulating because if you say like that woman That's why she told that's why she lied because if you say or I want to ask about the documentary by church militant They're going to hang up the phone immediately Jesse we're going to listen to the clip hung up on my girlfriend live Immediately lied about it publicly in writing on the chat and publicly on video They told her to call back call back and call back and that's her middle name uh and So then she did that's why there's so many calls seven and when she called back They picked up they started yelling at her because she lied to get through it Ask them about the documentary and then then they hung up on her and then they were screaming at her to the guy because Because she did lie to get through I don't care that because we have to lie to get through with the truth in this case to to get through their system The filter so then she kept calling back and they just kept hanging up on her and then finally she gave up But she was really mad and I heard all this go down live and I was recording it I couldn't believe I was watching Jesse lie It's right through his effing teeth right there. I knew he hung up on her. Oh, she hung up. She hung up Everyone's in the chat. Everyone believed it. They believed it even my friend Tony Bruno.  I'm like, dude She didn't hang up he hung up the minute she asked about the documentary What they have is an audio delay system like tv news networks do I've been on pierce Morgan like a big tv show And there was like a five second delay and I didn't understand that I'm like They must have the technology to not have to have good internet like what is the purpose of this right? They do that to stop curse words and anything they don't want on the air They have someone on the trigger button That's what jesse does and he has been hanging up on people for years I'm sure when they ask something he doesn't like or says something he doesn't like Oh, they hung up. Oh the phone cut out. No, it didn't they hung up and they lied about it This guy is a And anyway, it makes me really mad. I'm gonna tell you what I think his strategy is Um, because obviously they created a shield around them with all these tactics. Yeah, I think jesse's personality I've always told jesse That he has wanted to be He wants to be in a position. It's not just a second.  Oh, I'm just like you don't treat me any different But yet he tells you he's been sin free for 20 30 years so That's the way a lot of people got uh Came to him because they wanted to find out what is this guy doing what is the secret to be sin free? and they went to him and Come to come to find out when all said and done is a fraud He wasn't sin free at all But that was that was the poll to brought to bring people in that he was he was sin free so what he's doing is He's very interested in people seeing him a certain way as like a great teacher He got a lot of his information from roi masters, of course as we you guys have Talked about a little bit on the well We didn't really talk about that too much on the video But you learned a lot of stuff from roi masters and then you got to use that on people He talks about a lot of truths But a lot of the truths he doesn't really understand for himself It's obvious. He doesn't understand those things. So I think what his goal is He's going to keep creating a shield around himself, but You can't do that out in the Internet and so forth because you need to grow, you know, you're an entrepreneur You understand that you've got to grow but in order to grow you kind of have to put yourself out there But he's not going to put himself out there. So it's going to go contract on him to the point of I hate to say it this way, but almost, you know seemed like hitler in the bunker at a certain point If you can be the if you can be the guru over And you have to be a guru, but only over 20 people still I think he'll take that in preference to actually um Being honest enough to say what happened because that hit to his ego is going to be something he doesn't want to deal with Yeah, well, it could also destroy bond.  You guys should look it up if you're not familiar with it What's you guys doing jack murphy? I knew a little bit about this story I I had heard about it For one of my friends. I'm not sure who it was but it was about how it was caught Yeah, and everybody and it took everybody by surprise because I know that he was a big speaker on masculinity And I never said it was just then came the memes, you know after the fact and he was pretty much He's over for him. Who do you think made all the memes the meme master, bro? They're really effective Can I say something here anthony about A general statement to some of the bond people Sure Because some people say and this is one of those frequently asked questions But I kind of have to talk about it now They say well jesse's done all this good, you know he's helped and we've had One guy didn't even come forward because he said if it wasn't for Jesse or at least meeting jesse and getting known with bond and everything that he may be dead or in jail and a lot of people you know jesse helped them with a silent prayer and they helped them to forgive their parents And so there's people that would say hey, he's done all this good Um, you really shouldn't say anything. I think we covered this a little bit in the beginning But I just kind of say it a little more openly Oh, you shouldn't say anything about this guy because he's done all this good I would say look any way that jesse's words or or things he's you know said to you have been helpful I'm not here to take those things away from you Um, what jesse's helped me. He's helped my family. He's helped many people But and I don't want to take anything that he said that's truthful That just struck something with you that helped you forgive or have a better life I don't want to take any of that stuff away. It's all fine But does that mean on the other side that because somebody has done some things that were helpful That you're just going to turn the blind eye to the stuff that he's been doing and maybe still doing And the kind of damage this guy can be doing to families Um, if you're a friend if you're a true friend of somebody, don't you tell them the truth to help them? Well, it's rampant cowardice is what it is. It's cowardice And I'm far less charitable in my analysis than you are patrick. That's a nonsense That doesn't matter how much good a person does in their entire life if they do one heinous thing. They have irreparably Like damage their soul in a way that in a way that makes them a heinous person I think I think what's going on is that they're they're afraid of taking away from whatever alleged good jesse has done And i'm sure he has in some cases, especially on a personal basis. There's no doubt that he's done good He's done good for me But what if you guys are christians if jesus was alive now on this earth What would you say about what jesse's done? I mean, this is this is horrendous. This is these are mortal sins, right and christianity Yeah, they're very terrible Again, the bible talks about sexual sins as being the worst sin the sins to the body The body is considered the temple of the holy spirit. It's about as serious as you can get Yeah, and and and you know from from from the catholic perspective You know, uh, you know, this is this is considered one of the most extreme sins of the flesh I mean we can look all throughout scripture and find You know people talking about the abominations of homosexuality and how it would be better to you know Hang saying a millstone over someone said then to touch a child or something along those lines all regarding these different sorts of Of abuses against the innocence now, obviously there was no kids involved in this specific scenario That we're aware that we're aware of that we're aware of that's true now But but what but what we kind of see is These are still the innocent that are being prayed on and and and looking at this from jesus's perspective You know, uh, I mean praying on the innocence. I mean, what what are you gonna say to that? I mean I'm sure there's a lot of i'm sure that i'm sure there's a lot of you know salt of the earth people Just across the world that would say off with his head.  I heard people say to me that are in jesse's congregation That they don't they don't want to lose the experience that they have They want to be able to come down Get together talk about spiritual things feel good go out to lunch afterwards and have a social activity I'm not knocking them for that wanting that but just understand what you're saying I don't want to speak out or ask questions of him because I don't want to lose my experience is what they're telling me That's a coward selfish. That's extremely selfish. I mean, I don't know what else to say. I don't know what else to say It's absolute brazen cowardice. It's they they don't want to There's a little it takes this basic nuance that even a teenager could understand Jesse might say something true. I like president trump. He says trump is a great man a great president Okay, I agree with that. I believe that's uh true. Like I that's not just my opinion.  You watch too many movies Again, it tells you Yeah, we're not getting this your patch Patrick your internet just froze up Totally frozen Okay, can you do it now? Nope. Uh, you're coming back.  No, you're gone again.  It's extremely serious It's an extremely serious offense against you know, I I didn't think about that Joseph that that a lot of these people are actually Cowards They're they're they're putting us up on such a high level. You got to show me the receipts a guy just said or whatever They're putting us on this ridiculous level and then asking nothing of him in return That's right. That's right. And that's that they're cowboys In the detractors in the in some of the detractors defense a lot of them have Actually asked for say Jesse has to respond Jesse has to does this that and the other And and I actually appreciate some of that nuance from from a couple people But but but there are others that aren't I mean I don't I don't know that sticks has said anything about it For example, I don't he doesn't care him. No, he's totally I mean, it's a serious sin and once again, he's a satan worshiper So I know he doesn't care about the seven circles of hell because I think he's going for number nine according to his so Let me ask patrick, uh, let me ask patrick a question. This is a very simple question You know if we're to answer it or whatever you want Would you and are you willing to provide an affidavit and swear under oath to in writing to the Testimony you provided on video the church militant Are you prepared? Are you willing to give testimony under oath meaning legally binding that the things you stated are true? absolutely Yes, there you go people That that's a big deal that that's A lot of people don't understand what these terms mean. They they hear, you know, they they're accusing me of slandering Jesse and defamation They don't understand what these terms mean. They don't understand the requirements per state In all this other stuff federal court state court like What you just said is a big deal and if you do provide an affidavit and you get it notarized and you sign it That's a sworn testimony That means you're swearing under penalty of perjury felony perjury that it's true and this happened that you had a 10-year sexual relationship with reverend jesse lee peterson And the same is true for the other victims if they go through with the testimony like that as well And they sign it and get it notarized or literally go into a courtroom with the bible or whatever That's another form of testimony under oath But it's it's the same thing and you're liable for felony perjury and going to go into prison for five years if you lie They don't understand this and these people they lob words around defamation slander blah blah blah I haven't seen any attorneys come out yet And say this stuff's not credible, right? I haven't seen any attorneys claim defamation If anybody lied you would could be liable for defamation Certainly and if you had no no reasonable basis to believe something you could be liable for defamation I have a very reasonable basis to believe that you guys would tell them the truth here And the fact that you're willing to go forward and provide a sworn statement is a huge deal And that is evidence testimony is evidence particularly when you give it under oath and you could go to jail for lying This is not funny like I'm 100 if that's what it takes I would do that. Absolutely. Yes Yeah, I mean a woman and just and just and just on the on the question of church militants track record I sent you a link anthony if you want to open it up and show everybody. It's in the chat. Oh, yeah I mean, I just want them to see this and just and just kind of go through Some of the things that you have here. I mean, this is just a list of all the special investigations. We've done, you know, um Right here you have The spotlight truth teller sociopath part two where it talks about bishop richard stick of noxville covering up sex abuse No one else is doing this sort of investigative work right now We look out for predator priests Predator bishops cover up financial scandal physical abuse all sorts of other abuses going on in the catholic church This all of these reports are at risk All of these reports are at risk if we released a non credible and false and false um Yeah, and false report on jesse lee peterson. Why would we do that? What's the point? I notice show that the church militant is an attorney that works for you guys as follows me on twitter now Is he full time or is he a retainer for church militant? Can you disclose that the basic relationship is? I don't know though. I don't know our lawyer relationships. I'll have to speak on that Okay, just asking you that's not that my department is not that but we we have we we we are we I mean like I said if he thinks that we if he thinks that we defamed him And and wants to sue us or something. I guess he can sue us if he wants to Yeah, yeah, I mean that that's what people don't understand and and why this is the reason i'm challenging jesse I'm willing to put my balls on the line financially and reputationally and in court and legally I'm not playing i'm already engaged in two other lawsuits right now civil lawsuits Uh, we filed both of them and if we have to file a third I will and if jesse wants to file one against me go for it I've openly dared him and challenges him the public to do it people think this is a think this is a bluff or something I'm not playing like lawyer up ensue me. I will take you to court. We're going to go to discovery and we're going to look Into your phone records. We're going to get affidavits We're going to deposition ermas and other people employees that bond when you get deposition That's like giving a testimony under oath.  Let me say this too Jesse was a big speaker at my event and they invited me. I have the email. I can pull it up if people want to see it It's very simple They invited me again. They requested from my company 21 studios to film Bond 2022 conference in orlando again. I declined unrelated to this several months ago I just didn't want to do it, right? I had a lot of money there. I could have made Jesse speaking at my event brings ticket sales. We're talking thousands and thousands of dollars I have put my relationships with my other speakers and business partners at risk by Publishing this documentary by making these memes by having the conviction and the courage to take a stance on this And be certain about it and come to a conclusion and take moral responsibility for that and legal at this point I've made that very clear. I'm challenging. Jesse to sue me and bond these people don't get that I have put tens of thousands of dollars if not more at risk by taking this position These internet sticks and hammer at least has got his face on it But being a stupid scumbag in this case with this stuff, right? But these other people have cartoon character faces their anonymous idiots on twitter and youtube They don't have anything on the line They're just mouthing off like little kids because they're mad their daddy Their digital father figure is a fraud and a predator and a homo And it's it's I get that it's disgruntling to them But they need to get through that and be men and be mature about it You can be in denial you move to anger you move to acceptance and all this stuff Like there's a there's a grieving process for this like when someone dies this is in a way he the Conceptual figure of Jesse has died in their head or is beginning to die That's part of what put the memes out to make it funny And I think it helps kind of smooth out the process for these people It makes them angry and triggers them But it triggers them into an emotional process of accepting what their mind is telling them is logically true That these people are not playing these allegations are serious. You guys will want to testify under oath This is not funny. This guy has been a 30-year fraud. It's a big deal people got preyed on And and to all the young people out there, you know watching this right now I just want to let you know I get it You're in shock You're in shock right now somebody that you like somebody that that that you would go to for all this Advice this moral advice this spiritual advice all this stuff to help you I Understand what it feels like to lose that my spiritual director died back in january and that was a rough time for me It was very upsetting And you losing your spiritual director not to death, but to something heinous like this to where there's this this this natural Just just just just severing of the relationship while he's still here Just destroying his credibility with you. It's gonna be painful. You're going to hurt But defending him is not going to make you feel better It's just going to make you regret it in the future when the truth finally comes out in its fullness Yeah, and and you know what these people don't really even know jesse They know a persona that they hear on the radio Or on the internet or whatever they don't really know who he is and quite frankly I didn't know who he was. I mean I always thought we were friends for for decades And when I look back now, I wonder if The whole thing was not just a fraud and a scam you guys have already come to that on the outside But i'm on the inside here being somebody who's had a very We you know, we were very close for a long time and I think there's a side to this guy I mean, I know there's a side to this guy now that I just wasn't aware of and that It shocks me even to this day to be honest with you Yeah, and that's totally fair man as bombastic as I am with the memes and my statements and stuff Especially in writing on twitter and my blog and my newsletter You have a much longer and richer experience with jesse that makes this a lot more complex for you Psychologically emotionally spiritually, whatever and that's totally fair And these people being in shock is to some degree fair and I'm not surprised I've been through this several times with that jack murphy character I mentioned it was the same thing and that was huge That was the biggest one before this jesse has at least twice the size the audience of jack murphy who also had a big following 150,000 followers on just twitter for example Now i've dealt with this in the mana sphere smaller frauds guys with 100 000 youtube subscribers Guys with 150 jack murphy had about maybe 250,000 fans total When you expose someone that these young men in some cases women as well But young men mostly they really look up to him as a father figure and they have father hunger They are raised by single mothers.  They're going to defend him. He's their daddy There is no father. You don't need a father if you have the father whatever jesse says They're they're they're on auto like little robots. They're the ones who are more into the cult The more deeper layers of the cult. Yeah, they're just regurgitating lines at this point in jesse Because they're they're totally their identity is so wrapped up in jesse lee peterson And bond and his like warped fake christianity. They don't even know how to get out of it They're totally sucked in Right and that's and that's and that's kind of the point is that you know people need to realize I know there's a lot of christians watching right now I know there's a lot there's a lot of you know believers out there right now You need to ask yourself is god's greatest gift to you not your human reason that it's a gift to you from god Use it use those critical thinking skills that you have watch the documentary with a You can watch it with a critical mind even if you want to and then just listen to this put all the pieces together All these people coming out here talking about being masculine and being alpha males and doing you know All this stuff flexing you know flexing their muscles on camera showing showing that they're chads on stuff on the internet If you're a true chad then why don't you go and look at the documentary use your critical thinking skills Like we have during this entire interview and come to the proper conclusion I don't I don't know what to tell people and and that's and that's what i'm and that's that's what upsets me about this You know this is not the behavior of alpha males to go out and just blindly defend somebody on some faux sense of loyalty That doesn't exist that is not what men do Men follow. Yeah, exactly men follow the evidence Men can take the evidence and see that the puzzle pieces fit together or don't fit fit together You have critical thinking skills.  I helped jesse. Unfortunately do that Took jett took fabian to court because fabian was saying I want to get an old story, but he let fabian go And because fabian was saying some things about his show that he was trying to help make the show better But jesse got mad didn't want fabian to talk to him fabian wanted to keep talking with jesse and have a conversation and Basically jesse just took him to court at same way. He took martin to court And just did one of them out of his hair So fabian has been on to this for a long time and apparently fabian just said that jesse asked him if he was Homosexual in 1996. I think or whatever the whatever the year was And it just shows you yeah 1996 so he did this jesse did the same thing with me when he first met me So there's a pattern to the way that people They're doing wrong operate joseph. You know that you've seen it over and over you saw in our interviews You saw it in your past work with the land Didn't see that um anthony in your life. There is a pattern um evil uses a pattern What works they continue to work and do the same pattern over and over jesse's pattern in the future is going to be to continue to Push a single way or attack people Unless god hits him between the eyes with a lightning bolt.  So i appreciate the ten dollar donation to my channel But i do want to kind of dig into this guy because this is highlighting a big Uh cognitive issue they're having or Basically, there's hyper skeptical David says guys, please have at it on camera tape. It helps because it sounds me too ish So in the mana sphere, we have a saying that we've had since about 2019 when the the kind of fraud battle really went public Instead of kind of behind the scenes people trying to fight And we call it the red pill blind spot The red man group comes from wanting to be a red pill man trying to understand the truth about the world But particularly about uh your own nature as a man and the nature of women And living in a feminist culture the truth about women Today is not uh allowed movies are all feminist the books are all feminist tv is all feminist The church has been invaded by feminism pretty much all of them It's all around you all the time all your governments the military is invaded by feminism, etc, etc But this in the mana sphere we call a red pill blind spot and it's what the frauds abuse A red pill blind spot is what i alluded to earlier Where a mana sphere content creator kind of like jesse but also jack murphy and many others They rail against feminism and you know maybe antifa and blm Lesbians and all the stuff jesse says right big fat lesbians, right? And this is lesbians, but it's genuinely funny and that's part of how jesse manipulates these people I'm using the memes which are funny for the for what I believe is a true and forceful And and good noble cause virtuous Jesse is using humor and laughter to manipulate people while also railing against things that genuinely are evil and toxic And hurtful to family and to men and to women You know common sense masculinity. We can call it biblical masculinity biblical femininity He rails on these things and it puts up these people in a blind spot So now they say that uh, it's me tuish. No, it's not this is serious These are corroborating witnesses to eyewitness testimony firsthand that spans decades This isn't and also it's not plausible Jesse peterson is not larry elder. He's not donald trump. He's not gavin nuesome.   I think thank you for your money, but you know go screw yourself I mean no, I want to I want to address that can you put that comment up there again? So everybody can see it while I address them Have it on camera or on tape. How am I supposed to do that? What do you want me to do you want me to you want me to organize some sort of you know 10 thousands of dollars sting operation or something like that These sorts of people are prepared for these scenarios. They prepare for these things They make sure they only do it with people that are close to them specifically people inside of bond Do you think that how how long how long did you know jesse before you before he made any advances on you patrick Oh, uh, what well again? I told talked about in the video where he'd be playing ar