Yeah, man, we are live. It is another Thursday night reality check and it's gonna be a good one tonight. We got a special guest tonight.  We're gonna have a good time. We're gonna have an adult conversation tonight. So I wanna welcome everybody that's in the chat. Let me take a quick look. Primal Man, good to see you. Emmanuel Pinare, I think it's Pinero. Good to see you, brother. Sergio, good to see you. Uncle Guns, of course. Self-made Woody Johnson. Anybody else in there, stop in and say hi. I also wanna welcome everybody from 21 Studios tonight. My name is Tony Bruno. If you don't know me, this is a simulcast from my channel and I am gonna make a disclaimer. The disclaimer is basically that the views and opinions on tonight's broadcast are not necessarily the opinions of views of 21 Studios, content and affiliated channels. So I just wanted to make that clear. This is a simulcast. But also a couple of things before we get started. I do want to recommend Grand Dyke Soap Company Tactical Soap. You guys, this is for men. This is a business that was built by a man for men. So get some soap, get some excellent deodorant. Okay, use my code King. You get a nice discount and that's tacticalsoap.com. Without further ado, I'm going to bring on our guest tonight and our guest tonight is Bunny, my Playboys Bunny on Twitter. We're gonna have a great conversation about attraction. And I have a little twist on it tonight. So, but without further ado, I'm gonna bring her on live right now. Here we go. Hello, hello. I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited that you're here. I'm glad to have you. This is gonna be fun tonight. You know, like I told everybody, this is an adult conversation. We're gonna talk about sex. We're gonna talk about attraction. And we're not just gonna talk about casual sex.  So, how are you tonight?  Can I cast on this show? I have some. Yes, that's why I say this is an adult show tonight. And the F word is in context tonight. It definitely is. It definitely is. I want to read to everybody real quick. I wanna read basically your Twitter handle. Your Twitter handle is MPB, which stands for My Playboys Bunny. Attraction expert dating relationships and divorce recovery solutions. Your sexually enthusiastic tour guide to the girl brain. 20% girl brain, 100% fun. That's me, that's me. That's perfect. So everybody follow her on Twitter. That's My Playboys Bunny. And also I'm gonna read real quick. You got a little header here, but first I wanna ask you, how did you get into this? And let's start with the name My Playboys Bunny. I think I know how you got that, so. Okay, I actually love telling this story and I don't get to tell it up. So I'm super excited. So I'm connected to For Worth Playboy for anyone who isn't familiar with us. And one night we were just laughing and saying, we have so many sexcapades and just very cool sexual experiences. And we wish there was some outlet for us to be able to share that without completely alienating our friends, our families, our clients. You were in personal training. Like there are just some things about us that not everyone wants to know. And so he was already on Twitter just like with a named account. I was on it, but I never used it. And we were like, what if we did like an anonymous account? We were genuinely just like, just messing around within five minutes. So I don't know if you guys have figured this one out about me or not, but I'm kind of like, give me an idea and I just do it. I'm not really like a thinker about it. I'm just kind of like all in or all out. And so within five minutes, I had a Twitter handle that was my Playboys Bunny because at the time, I was very much one of For Worth's rotation girls. I was a top echelon girl, but I was part of his rotation. And so he very much prided himself on being a player, a Playboy. It was just, it was fun. It was sexy. And so I kind of embraced that. And I've always loved like the Playboy kind of feel and the magazine kind of thing and the mansion. I loved watching the show based on their lives and things like that. So it just seemed like such a natural fit for me to be my Playboys Bunny. And it just stuck. And for the longest time, people would refer to me then, well, first of all, I was still anonymous at that time. So this was in 2018. And I was anonymous because then there's, the fact that between the two of us, we have seven kids, like we have families, my parents are still alive. There's all of this going on. So I'm still anonymous. And though we're having fun, we're sharing sex coupades and all this stuff. Well, he was finding that he was kind of miss a go on some of the fun because he didn't have an account yet. He didn't have an anonymous account that he could actually like play back. In fact, one time he had like retweeted with his named account, he had retweeted one of my more pornographic kind of tweets and immediately somebody had screenshot it that knew us that followed him on Twitter from, his more fitness minded kind of account. And so that stopped very quickly. And the message that he was sent was something like, I don't know what you and this girl are up to, but you know, you need to tap this back. And so then obvious choice for Worth Playboy. And that's when it was born. So May, 2018, I became my Playboy's bunny. And everyone for a good six, nine months thought I was a man, just because of my views and opinions on things and my advice that I was saying and the things that I was reiterating. And so I was constantly, every day it was like, this is a man running this account. This is just a fake thing. And it was, it was just ridiculous. And so I was like, I'd like write someone's name on a piece of paper and I would take a selfie and it would just be like from here down and like make sure it was like showing some, some cleavage and like clearly it was a girl, but not actually showing the whole thing. And that was like a daily occurrence. And finally we started doing, having like requests for guys to talk to us, you know, consults and coaching and things. And we just started getting requests for it.  And again, I just jumped all in and the rest is history. And both your accounts are actually for like, we'll say a standard account are actually pretty large accounts. Yeah, he has, between the two of us, we have about 100,000 followers. He has considerably more. Yeah, that's not, that's not small for say average people on Twitter. That's pretty good size accounts. And he only just started showing his face this March. So it's been- I was gonna say that because I had never seen him before. And then I saw on the channel, and I'm like, I saw your guys just so everybody knows, you guys do a podcast, I think it was 10 o'clock this morning, how often do you do those? And the channel- So we- I do have some things to Bunny's Twitter, her website and Fort Worth Playboys channel in the district. Thank you, thank you. Yeah, so we actually, we have a podcast that's strictly voice that we do, we used to do daily, now it's frequently. We'd love to get back to it daily, but we try to keep it very short. It's usually about 10 minutes. Just quick, topical kind of stuff. We do, I have a daily Monday through Saturday, wake up with Bunny show that I do live every single morning over my first cup of coffee. And we just kind of peruse the internet together. So that I've got going, we've got the show that you're talking about, we do the morning hustle. So that's Fort Worth and I together. And for the most part, we try to steer clear of any of the latest scandals or things like that on our- Well, there's a lot of that, yep. There's a lot of that. And we try not to get into that in our normal Twitter stuff or X stuff, whatever we're calling it right now. Because we want our content to be more evergreen, but for the sake of the morning hustle, which we do every Thursday morning at 10 central standard time, we do kind of dig into what's kind of hot and relevant right that minute and what's the forefront of what's going on. I also do the Bunny show live on Sunday mornings, which everybody calls Bunny church. So, you know, we have a lot of fun. We have a lot of fun. I have an interview show that I do. That's the point of it. Isn't it though to have fun? I mean, sometimes these shows get so serious about everything. No, we have a lot. We have a good time. If it got too serious, we'd stop doing it. Yeah. My whole thing right now too is like, you know, we always hear the man side. And there's, to be honest, there's very few women that I do want to hear from because I got to look at, I always look at women kind of, you know, with a little bit of, with a little side eye, you know, and that's just normal, I think. But I also think it's important that we get into the girl brain and somebody who's not afraid to actually talk about things, okay? Like tonight, attraction. Attraction is to me is a big thing that I think a lot of guys misunderstand. So as an attraction expert from, we'll say from a woman, we're going from a woman's point of view tonight. So that's the important part. That's what I want everybody to understand tonight. You know, and if there's some clap, clap back, I get that, I get that. But the reason she is here is to give us her views, her opinions on attraction. And I'm gonna put a spin on this, but first we're gonna talk about a couple of things. We're gonna kind of build up to that. So tonight's topic is attraction versus sexual attraction. And you'll understand why I'm saying that, okay? Once we kind of dive into it. So first question is attraction cues, okay? There's attraction cues that I think women give to men and that they don't pick up on. And I think this is gonna be real important question.  But what are some cues that men don't get? What are some cues that they don't pick up on? I think that the biggest thing that men do not pick up on as far as when we're trying to show you that we're attracted to you is that all of a sudden, we're everywhere you are. Guys think that this is a sudden accent or that, you know, you've just been missing it or whatever, but all of a sudden once we, the female decide that we've kind of got our sights set on you, then we're going to be at the gym at the same time that you work out. We're going to be arriving at the work parking lot at the same time that you usually do. We're going to be taking your lunch breaks at the same time. We're going to be going to the events, the social outings, the parties that we know that you're going to be attending. This is something that guys miss so frequently and to me it's so obvious, but you miss it so frequently because you think it just happens to, it just happens to work out that way and it never does. Girls don't do things like that on accident. We don't show up places where you are on accident. We don't touch you on accident. Things like this do not happen. We are calculating every move when we're attracted to someone. So what do you say to a guy that can't pick up on these cues and a guy that might be verbally challenged, we'll call it. Okay, so these cues are being thrust upon you, we'll say. It could be even after say you meet a girl and you exchange numbers and now she texts you something. I think that the responses that you give to a woman are important. And give me like an example of a text that somebody would miss the cue on. Oh, number one would definitely be whenever a girl just like reaches out with something completely innocuous, you know, help with homework, help with a project, a question about something having to do with your profession, like, oh, my computer's acting up and you're an IT guy, whatever the case may be, girls will reach out under the guise of something completely asexual, innocent, not attraction based at all, but really it's you're in to start a conversation with us. And guys miss this all the time.  It's because we're interested in you. Let me ask you a question. A lot of guys that are in this space, my take on this, a lot of guys in this space when they're coming into this, they're trying to learn. They could be out of a divorce. They could be new. They could be in the world. So they don't quite understand it but there's a big thing that I'm gonna bring up and you probably agree with me is that this is one of the biggest words in this kind of space is the friend zone. That could possibly be mistaken for friend zone questions. So I think it's up to the guy to navigate that. And this is my opinion, navigate and escalate. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Is the way to do it. So how does a guy navigate those questions and making sure he's not trying to be friend zone? I think then the key is that you, okay in this example where a girl just reaches out like texts something seemingly innocent and he answers the question, he answers the text and then says, okay, let's back up. Let's have, so a lot of times girls will circle back. We'll be boomerang girls. So it's an X, it's someone that maybe we passed on before because of bad timing or something but now we're available and now we're thinking about him. So we reach out, we text, hey, you know what have you been up to lately? Or hey, long time no see or happy birthday. I know it's your birthday. I hope it was a good one. All of these are invitations to strike up a conversation with us and possibly ask us out. So let's say you missed the mark on that or let's say you want to pursue that a little bit more. The way you answer is say, hey, it's been three months. How have you been? I'd love to, let's meet up and catch up. And then you know where her level of interest is because if she says, that sounds awesome. I'm available Wednesday or yes, I'll definitely be there. Or are you gonna be at someone's host party? I'm gonna be there too. This is your end to making sure that she understands that this is an attraction.  He doesn't care. He wants to get in front of you so that he can need any build attraction with you. Okay. Yeah, it's to me, well, see my brain made, I'm gonna, I don't give advice on this channel but I just, I'm the kind of guy that dives in head first. Like I don't, and then I just next. I feed first your head first. But I'm kind of like, I can pick up on the cues. This is just me. And then if I see it's not working out or I'm not getting the response that I want, I just next. That's all right. Yeah. There's a lot of guys that can't do that because what happens is, is, you know, we talk about options in this space quite a bit. There's a lot of guys that don't have a lot of options. Or they don't believe they do. Okay, perfect. I like how you said that. They believe they don't because I think men do have more options than they perceive themselves.  You wanna be fit. You wanna be healthy. And that does increase your options. But there are a lot of guys that cannot pick up on these cues. And like I said, sometimes you just gotta go in head first, dive in, say what's on your mind and you might be surprised of the response. Now you might get a negative response too. So, but, you know, it's easy to move on. But I think- And it's a numbers game. Yeah. So if you're gonna put yourself out there, you're gonna have to know that it's a numbers game. You're gonna get rejected, but you're also going to get a lot of positive responses. And as long as you are getting predominantly more positive responses than negative, then your system is working to an extent at least. It's working enough to get you your foot in the door with enough new or social circle or ex-girls that you can stay busy. But if it's, if you're getting nothing but rejection, yeah, you need to return to the drawing board and learn a little bit more. I'll tell you what, when I first came into this space, we'll say it's probably 2017. There was, and this is, this is, I'm gonna go straight up on, this is my opinion. I am a believer in the phrase attraction is not a choice and I'll explain that here in a second. I'm a believer that if a woman is not at first attracted to you, I don't think there's any kind of game you can spit or any words you can say to change that. And...  Yeah, I think it's really true. Now, a lot of guys do talk about your mouthpiece as a representation of, I'll say what you want or what you're going for, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get it. If a woman is not attracted to you, it's over. It's over and move on. So what do you got to say about that? Well, and that's where, I mean, it gives me into death, but it doesn't make it less true. That's where like, the attractive guy and the like fat nasty or unattractive guy or the guy that she's attracted to versus the guy that she's not attracted to saying the exact same words. One is like making her swoon and the other is like, she's calling HR or she's screaming help or police are trying to get away. Because I definitely think I agree 99.9% of the time exactly what you're saying is 1,000% true. Because guys, I feel like there's the first level that the girl passes a dick test or not.  This is good, because it's really leading into my topic tonight. Yeah, yeah. This is where, so first step, if a girl is even partially attractive and he's partially attracted to her, step one, then maybe, but maybe she's not all that like physically attractive. Maybe she doesn't make him want to pursue sex with her.  But then he starts to like learn her personality.  Then he starts to want to pursue her more sexually and then his attraction raises. This does not happen with females. The opposite is not true, you know.  So we're either sexually drawn to you or we're repulsed. There's not generally a lot of gray matter for women. Okay, I'm just looking at some of the comments here. Ooh, okay. Yeah, I'm just, okay. Another thing is we talk about like looks and good looking. And I think that is kind of subjective, we'll say. Absolutely, sure. I'm also a believer and I've said this, I think I've said this on my last show, I've said this quite a few times, but there's a thing what we call looks matching, okay? Which means people match of their looks. And I've said this many times before, go to Walmart and you'll see the happiest couples. That's a good line. It just is, it's just a fact.  That's what you call a looks match. So I think that's a reality that a lot of men have to kind of grasp and women too. Now in this world of social media, that's gonna kind of lead me to another question, which is where do I have it here? The state of women now, okay? With social media, with plastic surgery, with breast implants, so and so it can be makeup. I mean, women pills make us makeup off and she can definitely look different. Do you get what I'm saying?  So what happens is, on a slow Tuesday, Chad's gonna come over and bang her out and then she thinks she's gonna be with Chad on Friday and Saturday night, which he already lost her number and so what happens is that that man that she should have looks matched with is no longer there for her. No, exactly.  So... It's true. Yeah, so tell me about the state of women now in...  So it's a little bit more extreme makeup for them, but there are women walking around with this all the time. So it truly can be transformative and I am a very vocal proponent that makeup is just supposed to enhance your already, you know, natural beauty and characteristics. It's not supposed to make you look like a different human being. So I'm not a fan of like the heavy contouring, the heavy makeup, any of that. And I'm 45 years old. I mean, I'm not trying to appear to be 20 here, but I was raised that makeup was supposed to just be an enhancement and shouldn't like leave the charge. But exactly what you're talking about on social media, a girl who's a four is getting the attention of a nine. And it's, I mean, I'm not the first one to say that and I won't be the last, but it's absolutely ludicrous. But if you saw the same woman on the street, she'd be completely invisible. No one pays any attention to her, which is why she's hanging out online, which is why she's doing her hair, doing her makeup, planning her outfit and taking 120 photos through five different filters. And then also editing the best ones to share so that she can get that, that hit a dopamine or whatever. The attention, because attention is our oxygen, you know, that's, it's what makes us, makes us breathe as females is attention. And sometimes negative attention is as good as anything, but online we're post, you're seeing pictures posted all the time of women that if you saw them in person, they wouldn't, they don't look anything like that, but they've got such an inflated ego because they believe that they look like this. And this is something that always shocks for worth when I say this, but you know, these will say fours, these fours that are nines online, they genuinely think they look like this. They do not see themselves as fours in the mirror because they are looking at themselves through these filtered lenses so heavily that that's what they truly believe that they look like.  Yeah, I mean, we've all seen those side-by-side photos where the girl with makeup, there was one I saw, geez, it was the roughest one I ever saw, but the girl had no teeth. She put her teeth in and did the makeup. It literally looked, it went from like homeless crack head to like actually a really pretty girl. Stunning, stunning. And that's- And somebody has to wake up to the crack head. It's terrifying. Well, you know the one I'm talking about. I know exactly who you're talking about and every time, I can't blink or I might miss something while I'm watching her videos because she's actually ridiculously open about it. I've only seen one and this was a while ago but it kind of stuck in my head because I watched the transformation. It was like a, I think it was like a one minute time lapse kind of thing. So I was kind of blown away.  Don't get me wrong, I've been on dates too where you go online and I have a hard rule that I'm gonna video chat with somebody before I meet them because realistically when I started, you know, my, we'll say, I don't know probably five years ago with online dating I walked from three different ones. Yeah. And I said, never again. Never again will I, they were not the girl that they represented at all. Well, and I would love to hear more about that whether it's now or later or at another time. I'd love to hear more about that because we get questions quite a bit about do I have a phone call first? Do I have, how much do I text? I mean, we talk a lot about like keeping it keeping it very simple on the front end but we have a lot of guys who do voice memos or a video chat before the date. Oh, video chat. I think it kind of is clicking before you actually get in front of them need a need. Absolutely. A video chat is definitely required. I would. I love it. That's a great rule. They're just video chat and if they don't want to that just tells you something. It does. Yeah. That's huge. I just know that, I wouldn't do it any other way. We'll just put it that way. I think that's very smart. I think it's a great way to go. And it not only helps weed out who you're not you are aren't interested in but if you can't even make a little bit of small talk on a video call, maybe a five minute phone call then meeting up for even something as short as drinks is just going to be like dentistry. It's just going to be like pulling teeth. That doesn't sound fun for anyone. No, no, not at all. Yuck. You know, but I think there, you know this we'll get into that a little bit later but there's also been, you know the ones to where they're, you know drinking super heavily, like right off of that things like that. These are, and, and you know I'm sure there's a lot of guys who are like hell yeah, like let her drink that kind of thing but that's, that's not me. That's, that's, that's a, that's a hell no for me. Well, and then, and then you've got to take care of her inevitably if she pre-gained hard or if she, you know that's, I think that's what men especially on in the first date kind of, kind of times with new girls what you guys don't realize is how little we eat right before a date. So the whole day leading up to this day we wanna look as thin and hot as possible. We don't eat anything.   All right, sorry. I'm just looking at the chat here again. You're good, you're good. I'm looking at my phone here. So.  And there's a reason why I came up with this and I mean- It's a great topic. Yeah, we had talked about this earlier. And again, we're gonna have another special guest come on. I believe shortly if he's watching you're welcome on anytime and possibly two special guests. So, I mean- The more handsome men surrounding me the better. I'm all for it. The first one, the first special guest that hopefully is gonna come on shortly is gonna be Pat Steadman. So I know he always adds just great volume to any of my streams. Especially- I've been on his show. He's been on mine. I'm crazy about Pat. Excellent. So let's get into it.  I'm gonna give you my take on it. Okay, this is my take. Attraction, initial attraction to a woman I think from a man's point of view we are attracted to a lot of different types of women. So I think the first thing that we look at obviously is physical, okay? This is physical attraction. I think that's what it starts with men. Some women might say, oh no, no, we're men, we're physical. Sorry, that's just the way it is. But when it comes to attraction I have kind of a list of things that I think are important. One thing is that a good helpmate, okay? We know that's even in the Bible. That's biblical. Yeah, so a good helpmate. We look for values. And when I say values I think that values to me are, okay, I think that's kind of a broad term. Values are to me the same values that I kind of hold close to me. Okay, so I think everybody can have a different set of values and that's fine. You know, I'm not judging anybody on what they think. She can be a pretty girl, but she's not a model type, okay? And then the sex can be okay. And I think a lot of guys will hang in there for that even in a marriage, which I kind of think is wrong. That's just my take on that. Well, I'd love to go, that's one of my passion projects is having highly sexually charged marriages for a lifetime. So I'm all for digging into that later. So that's my part on attraction. So that's your basic attraction. Now we're gonna get into sexual attraction. This is why I say attraction versus sexual attraction. I think there's a sexual attraction that guys have where it can be the girl where he knows, like he literally can't stand to hear or speak. It's just that bad.  And that's that is sexual attraction. And yeah, just like that. There you go. That's kind of, this is why I say that I think there's attraction, there's sexual attraction. She can have the hot body. And I have a little caveat here. And I'm gonna say again, in these spaces, we always hear these rules on why men and women cheat, but I think men just cheat sometimes because they just want good sex, period. There's no, it's not, you know, women, what it was the phrase, women, can't even think of it now. It's just, I'm glad it's left my brain, but so that's the difference. So I have a regular attraction, which somebody will say, okay, she's gonna make a good wife, a good mother, but things might not be perfect, okay? But he's gonna go ahead and say, you know what, this is good, I'm attracted to her. But there's also, I think you should have both, but there also is just sexual attraction. Yeah. I think that's normal. As men, that's normal.  But there are women that you are just sexually charged by. Sure. I mean, it's my type. So that's where I come up with attraction versus sexual attraction. Yeah. So let me get your take on that. Okay. I'm gonna play off of what you're saying. So I do absolutely agree with what you're saying. I think that, you know, just like the attractiveness scale, like genuinely where it's like 10, nine, eight, you know, down the scale of attractiveness, which is not as subjective. It's some pretty hard and set rules about symmetry, about, you know, about the symmetry of the face, the symmetry of the body, things of that nature. It's less subjective. It's an objective, very male dominant, you know, like it's a rule log of attractiveness of a scale. But then, within that, like you're talking about, everybody has their types also, you know, whenever I matched, I met Forworth online on a dating app and I passed on him the first time I saw him because when I saw him, I thought there's no way that this guy's dating anything but like tall, model-looking, blonde Barbies. And that is the furthest thing from what I am. You know, I'm short, I've got like brown-red hair, like, you know, that's not me.  But he circled back to me because I was exactly his type. He likes, he says he likes, you know, petite redheads with big boobs. I'm like, I'm in, I'm in, that's me, I wonder why. Where's the comment for you right there? Exactly, but it's, you know, it's, oh, did he just say that in the chat? Yeah.  I think that what you're saying about just pure, raw sexual attraction. Primal, completely primal. And I think that's true for men and women. I think that women are less likely to admit to it, but just like- I am so glad you said that because that's what I wanted to hear you say because some women will say that, no, you know, you have to do this or do that or, but if there is that hardcore sexual attraction, it's just going to happen. It's that- And there's no, there's no rationalizing it. It's not a rational thing.  There's a reason that there's like back room bar sex. You know, there's a reason that there is our one night stands and it takes two to do that.  But that doesn't mean that they want to build a life with the people, the man who they're privately attracted to, but no would be a terrible husband, a terrible provider, a terrible, you know, life mate.  I do get that, but that's not always the case. I don't think that's not really always the real world. That's a very small percentage of what's going on in the dating marketplace and the sexual marketplace. It's a very small percentage. And I think we can't, you know, when men come into this space, don't focus on that. Focus on yourself and what you can do for yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And again, I'll go back to the looks matching thing, things like that. I mean, these are terms I think in the, we'll say the red pill sphere that you don't hear often. And I think- You know what I haven't heard in a while in relation to what you're saying is that, because I totally believe that it looks matching. I think that for the most part, we date on essentially our same level, you know, in long-term stuff, not just in fucking, not just in quick hookups, you know, that can be a little bit unbalanced sometimes. But for any version of relationship, let's say, even if it's more like a rotation kind of thing. But what I haven't heard in a while is the phrase about, men need to be a point or two more attractive than the female. But I think it goes a long way. And I think it bears discussing at least because I think it does serve some purposes. It helps keep her a little bit humble, which I think is a very good thing. And if he's a couple of points higher on the Richter scale, you know, when she dolls herself up, then she's actually going to be trying harder to look more attractive when they go out. She's gonna be working harder so that people- Cause make no mistake, if a guy looks like, you know, a REI model and the girl looks like a troll, she notices when they go out and people are looking at her like, what is happening right now? What universe did I just enter?  So I think that a couple of points higher helps keep that girl continuing to try harder to look great, to present herself well, and to be a girl who's worthy of running around with somebody who's a point or two higher. Yeah. But that's something I haven't heard much about lately. Yeah, well, I think what's happened is, is that when it is like that, because when we talked earlier, because of social media and everything, she already thinks she's here when she's not. Yeah, that's a good point. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. You follow her on there. That's probably what's happened to that. Yeah, I think that's what's kind of leveled out the playing field. In some women's mind, I mean, that's the reality. Yeah. I mean, we can go back to the whole makeup thing.  That on my, on my wake up with buddy show that I literally like go downstairs, I make coffee, I brush my teeth, not in that order.  There are some mornings of like, this is a terrible idea. What was I thinking? No 45 year old female needs to be on a live broadcast on the internet because the internet has a very long memory. Yes, yeah, that it does, that it does. So let's, so we're going to go back to the attraction versus sexual attraction. Okay. Let's say, let's say a guy does have a, the basic attraction for a woman. Okay. And I want your advice on this. And she is attracted to him, but he decides that he's going to go for it anyways. Okay. And pursue. So they, they are mutually attracted to one another. They are, they are, but there's not that primal, that primal feeling. Like to me, like when you're with somebody, this is my opinion.  Yeah. It's that simple.  I agree. It would just not be. So why do you think, and I'm getting a woman's perspective tonight guys, why do you think that men do this? And because I see it all the time.  I think that unfortunately men and women like at this point have been so programmed against their natural wiring, which is what you're talking about, to think with their heads, to think reasonably about things, to look at the thing, you know, compare her on paper, kind of this kind of like very rational way of thinking, instead of thinking sex first relationship later, they're thinking, well, I'm told that now I'm supposed to really be respectful and I'm supposed to really, you know, think about consent and, and, you know, thinking very cautiously and being respectful of this woman and her accomplishments and her family and all of these things that were, that were a completely different scenario when we base things more on just, like you're talking about just attraction. I think that now people are getting so scared to base things more on attraction because they feel like that's not what you can base relationship on. That's not a safe way to go. It's doomed for failure, you know, it's disrespectful of her, whatever the case may be. I think that, I think that, I'm just gonna say, I think that feminism has kind of fucked the pooch on that one. Absolutely, absolutely. I'm gonna bring up something right in this kind of segue into that. It's like, and I know there's a lot of guys watching here tonight, of course.  That's my opinion on that, friends first. That is basically you're her, like her puppy dog that needs to follow her around and, you know, when she moves, move her couch and- Yeah, exactly. Kind of be her workhorse for a while.  Yeah.  I'm a slow burn. I really like to be friends first. I really need to get to know a guy before I have sex with him.  What do you say in that moment? You are literally hitting the topic on the head tonight. That is attraction versus sexual attraction right there. This is my passion. This is what I'm talking about. That is exactly the topic tonight. That's, I mean, that right there explains exactly why I came up with this. Yeah. Exactly.  It really would. I don't need to, I wouldn't, I don't really believe in stringing anybody along and I don't want to get strung along myself. Right. And I just think it's not realistic.  And I don't see anything wrong with that.  That's, let's just say that. I mean, that's the reality, you know? So I think that too is like when you do get into different, you know, religions, whether Christianity, Muslim, I don't quite know other religions or whether Hindu, like do you wait before marriage or I don't think most people really do. I think they might say they do. I think there are a lot of those kinds of rules that are socially acceptable, religiously acceptable that are given a lot of lip service on the front end but then kind of fall away in a case by case basis. And I'm glad that you said this about like the religions, the different cultures and things of that nature because I say all the time and it bears repeating in this moment. I speak in grand generalizations, you know? Our advice, our kind of lessons, our teaching is very much for like secular United States. I mean, it's like there are different cultures that kind of see things differently that have different social cues, that have different social rules and expectations. There are religious groups, I am a Christian but I also enjoy sex. I mean, there are religious groups that are much more stringent.  I mean, there are Jewish cultures that they literally don't even touch one another up until the moment that they are married. And I think that's beautiful, I respect that. I just don't choose to live my life that way.  Absolutely. Let me pause real quick and say hi to the chat. I love it. We've got Zen master, good to see you MAP. I don't know if you're probably maybe here from 21 but good to see you, Jay Tahoe, what's happening. As Varun, good to see you. As Varun, I sent you a link. If you wanna jump on and talk with Bunny, you're welcome to come on now. Now's a good time. In fact, anybody else that I've sent links to if you wanna jump on and chat with Bunny for a while, that's great. Now's the time to do it. So let's see who else we got here. I don't wanna miss people. I'm trying to say, raw God, raw God, raw God. Good to see you, Russell C. Good to see you, QB Passport Flexin. QB Passport Flexin is, I'm gonna call him the leader of the Passport Pros. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. In fact, QB would probably be a really good guest for your show. That's very cool. Yeah, QB is, I'll call him the, I don't watch too much. In fact, he's the only one really I watch. Actually another one too is Kings and Dreams. I watch him too. These are kind of guys in our little YouTube community on Instagram, but a few of them I watch, but these guys actually have a different take on basically dating. They, I don't wanna say they gave up on the West, but they're finding that they're having more fun in different countries. Yeah, I think that's fair. And if you have the means and the situation and the lifestyle to where you can, I completely respect that. Yeah, so, but yeah, it's good to see everybody in there. Like I said, as Varun or anybody else, you wanna jump on. Now's the time where we're having the conversation.  I've got a couple more questions. Let's keep this going. Okay. Um, where is it? All right, I'm gonna ask you a question that I've asked. It's probably two years ago. And I asked this in quite a few interviews and with different guests that I have. And I think this is a really important question. You're in, realistically, we'll say, I think you help both men and women, but I think the majority of your content probably is in a man's space and we'll call it the man-a-sphere space, but it really is. A woman in the man-a-sphere, no! Yeah, if anybody wants to watch my podcast I think it was January, is women in the man-a-sphere good or bad, but it was really good with Pat Steadman Foster. I had on Good Mother and Minka, and it was a really good conversation. Really, I think we dove into it pretty good that night. It was a good interview. Yeah, but since you are in this space, and I mean, I think it's important that men do get information, not just from men, and sometimes just like angry old men and angry men who've been, been smithed by women or whatever, you know what I mean, blah, blah, blah. So this is a real important question, but I'm gonna add something here to it tonight because you're here. The question is how is the man-a-sphere, we've heard this question all the time, the man-a-sphere has helped men save lives, and yes, it has, many, many lives, I believe that. Whether or not I agree with different content creators or had beef with them, I think that I look for a net positive. What I wanna go to you on is how has the man-a-sphere failed men and women, and that's a big one. This is a tough question for a lot of people to answer, and it stops people in their tracks when you ask them this question because we don't wanna think of these men's spaces as places that fail men. But my time here, I've seen some things that I literally wish I've never seen. Yeah, yeah. How do you think this space will start? How has it failed men? Okay, first of all, I love this question. I think this is a question that even if you've asked it before, is not asked universally enough. So I think this is a really great topic of discussion. I think that the man-a-sphere has most failed, I feel like a beauty contestant right now because I'm just repeating what you just said. I feel like the man-a-sphere has most failed men in that, in a similar way to, let's say, a Protestant, a Christian church has. Hear me out. Whenever there are groups of seemingly like-minded individuals, inevitably there's infighting. Inevitably there are problems. Inevitably there are people who disagree or agree more heavily. Something's said, something's done. But I think that we allow the differences to take precedence over the similarities. And so I think that so often, like the infighting, the things that are not 100% in a line with the way that we think or the way that we want to think tend to divide us. And I think that that's been a real problem in the man-a-sphere. And because of that, I think that men have actually suffered the most. I don't know that women have suffered much from it because if anything, it's actually given women like a foothold that they probably didn't deserve. Because I will say, I know that I am a female in the man-a-sphere and I do wanna return to this. But I wanna say, I know I'm a female in the man-a-sphere. I know that, I get a lot of really great kudos for the fact that I do kind of think more like a man. Like I'm a little bit of an interpreter of sorts to that girl brain, but I think that a lot of women in the man-a-sphere space who have worked our way in are really still just spewing a feminist agenda under a different kind of guise. And it inevitably comes out. But because of the infighting, because of the divisions, because of if I agree 75% with what one guy says or what one creator, content creator, speaker, teacher, coach says and 85% what he does. But then it's that 25, that 15%, that maybe I don't agree with quite so much. But then it's like based on that 15%, based on that 35%, based on that 50%, then you just throw everything else out as if nothing else that they have to say has any value. And that's a real concern of mine. You see that in the church, you see that in the man-a-sphere, you see that in organizations all the time where there are people who get divided over not silly things, I don't want to make it sound like the man-a-sphere has kind of turned into a bunch of clicks and sections for no reason. But I definitely think that it was as a whole serving more men when everyone was playing a little bit more nicely together. I think now everyone is out to cut each other's throats. And that's I think a real shame. And I think that that's causing a real problem and making a lot of men who would otherwise be helped. I think we're making a lot of men pissed off, turned off and kind of looking for another way to answer the questions that they have because there's so much focus on in-fighting and not enough focus on just solving the problems and then saying, this isn't my field of expertise. I think that one thing that Fort Worth and I do very well is when we say, this isn't our field of expertise, but so-and-so is a great source for that. Or check out this, and we're not into who's with anyone. We call ourselves Switzerland. We see the benefits and the nuances as to what everyone is saying. And we give more credence to others just because we think that they're a little bit more solid in their character, they're a little more solid in the research that backs up what they're saying. But I think that everyone has something to offer and it's the division that's causing a real problem and it's keeping us from being able to genuinely help more men in the manosphere. And it's turning men off from the manosphere or the red belt or whatever you want to call it. They're looking for a fix that they could have found here in 2017, 2018, but they can't find it here anymore. Does that make sense? Yes, I'm gonna pause you, I'm gonna retort to that here. As Varun, I had, I'm not gonna drop the link live. I'd sent you it through email. So if you wanna jump on, check your email, it's in there. So I did send you the StreamYard link. So also, where is it? Shift, my dog, Shift. He's got a great comment here too. When it turns into echo chambers and life denying. Absolutely too. I believe that solely. Well, and I mean, I think that a lot of what the manosphere becomes sometimes is just a big circle jerk, where it's like, just giving kudos where it's not necessarily always deserved. So then the people who have come here for help follow that and actually think that you're being genuine when it's really just like, you know. Okay, I'll give you a little bit of my take on it too. Yeah, I'd love to hear it. I have no issue with people making money at all. But I think it's become a very profitable business, okay? Like I should say, hey guys, like, you know, I've got a super chat button. Now I've never asked anybody to super chat me. But there's people that really depend on that button right there. I'm glad I have it because I think I earned it after two and a half years, which YouTube finally gave it to me, I don't know. It was a long, hard fight. Yeah, I mean, I made all the requirements, they just don't like me. So, and I who knows how long I'll have it, I don't care, but they're just, they're just jealous, Tony. They're just jealous. I guess so, but I do think that it has become a money grab and there are sections and cults and different things like that. And the super chat button to me has become a, not a form of appreciation. It's a form of validation, okay? Just kind of like, kind of like saying, repeating your favorite content creators, Lingo, so he can hit that heart or your name can be up in lights on the screen. So it's a form of validating each other where I think that's, to me, that's where it's failed, failed man. I really do. I mean, it's really simple. And I'm not gonna say any names.  I really don't care. Yeah.  Right. Let me say that to some of these guys. Just go ahead and do it. Don't put your cash app and your Venmo and your whatever PayPal in one of your streams one night. Just do it. Yeah. Yeah. Just do it. Well, I mean, it's no secret that money makes people act differently. We do things differently. We behave differently. When there's money on the line, people don't behave as they would when it was just a passion project or when it was just about genuinely helping people or genuinely having a platform to share opinions and have discussions. But once money's involved, all bets are off. Yeah. Absolutely. So, but just, you know, to kind of go along with that. First $500 super chat I get tonight gets tactical soap. One more. It's just kidding. It's, again, I do this for just for conversations, have fun. It's if you would ask me, you know, four years ago, three years ago, if I would have ever done this, I would have said no way. I'm not comfortable really on camera. Probably not comfortable with my voice or whatever, but that's fine. So I just do it to get out information and hopefully some of my streams, which I've had a lot of people reach out to me and still, you know, I still get messages all the time through my email and whether it be Instagram or Twitter.  But the fact is that I don't give advice. That's not what this is about for me. It's not about giving advice. It's about giving support. And the only way I can give support is to get out information if somebody reaches out to me and you want to chat or do a video chat and you can tell me your story or, you know, maybe there's a little wisdom that I could kind of give you, that's it. But I think that's where you do a great job of being kind of a middle ground, being a moderator, of the conversation and bringing people together to be able to find kind of the common ground. So I think that you do a great job of what your strength is. Yeah, I just, like I said, it's just, it's kind of, it's not a huge passion of mine, but it's something that I just enjoy talking to different people. Like now I'm gonna continue, I'm gonna continue to talk with women. Again, the last one, a couple of weeks ago, I think it was three weeks ago, was with a girl that does cam work, only fan. And we had a really good conversation. It was fun. So I wanted to dive in, dive into that. And I had told people, this is not Manasphere content. This is just content. We're gonna get into the girl brain of why she does that and how.  But we did have a very interesting conversation. And I did get a few, quite a few messages and emails on that, some good, some bad. I bet you did. Well, I watched that one. Yeah, don't, you know, why are you promoting this? I'm like, well, it's not that I'm promoting it, but we're talking about it because it's a phenomenon that is going on. It's a very real thing in our world right now. It's an important thing to not continue to just brush under the rug or not. I think that what I love about you having the OnlyFansGirl on Ivy, is that her name? Okay. She was a great guy. Gee, yeah, she seems really like a neat person. I think that it's an important thing because especially I would say in our neighborhood, we talk a lot of shit about OnlyFansGirls, or I mean, it's essentially just the strippers of when we were kids. Like back then they would have been the strippers, but now they're OnlyFansGirls.  Like I thought it was a very good conversation that you had with her. Yeah, it was fun. It was something different. And I do believe my next podcast also will be with another woman. And I'm not quite sure where I'm gonna go with it. I do have some options on that, but I think if we, as men, if we talk to more women about, and Ivy was very open, you're being very open with me and being, I can tell there's no, you have no mask on right now, which I like. I think you're being very open and very just frank with us and I like that. Thank you. I don't like people that have an agenda behind what they do. There's, you know what I mean? And I have found that there have been some interviews that I've done in the past. And to be honest, I've taken them off my channel because I think there was an agenda. Yeah, yeah.  So, you know. That's fair. I'm very big. I mean, if you look. And it's your channel. So you have the right to do it. Exactly.  I will nothing you.   You're just nothing.  Well, I've had some women say, are you gonna nothing me? Because that is, I don't deserve it. That's a pretty cruel thing. It really is too, not cruel, but it to me, it's like, I don't want somebody to, I don't want them to affect anything about my way of life or my walk in my path in life. So it's a real simple, simple thing. And then have that, then have that innate ability that you can do that. Women don't really have that skill set. We don't really have that, I would say even opportunity. And those who do are incredibly selfish.  And you know what too, it's because I just said big name people because I think there's going to be some people that think I'm talking about them and I'm actually not. So, but my, I know what my life is and I know more about their life. My life is pretty, I mean, this is it, man. I have a construction business. I stay healthy. I surf.  There's not much for me to hide. I don't have any, I don't have, you know, I got some kickback for this too, about skeletons. I don't have any. Sorry.  So, I have a pretty open book. I think I'm not sure what to do. If you come at me, you might want to check your skeletons. That's all I got to say. So, but my gaze of basically arguing with people are pretty much over. I think I've done what I had to do and, you know, I said my piece and let it go. And I wish no ill will really upon anybody, you know, there was, there was one of the guys that made a little video about me here. In fact, I'll play it for you. You might have never seen this. It's actually, it's actually kind of funny. And I ended up just like, I've been on his streams and I'm not, you know, he ended up being a surfer guy and I just find him so interesting. But this is the first clip and I'll play it for everybody that I saw and him talking about me and I jumped on his stream one night and we've been good ever since, but here it is.     This guy, I think Tony Bruno might actually be Satan himself.  Same thing with Uncle Gunn. He's definitely on the payroll as well. But I've always enjoyed going on the guy bro streams. I really do.  I know a lot of people don't like him, but I've always had a good time going on the guy bro. In fact, I don't know where his channel is. So guy bro, if you're out there, drop in the comments so I can see your channel. Show yourself. Yeah, show yourself. But I've got, I see Sergio in there. Sergio, I sent you the link if you want to jump on. And Pat Steadman just texted me. I'm going to text him back right now. But now's the time for everybody that I sent links to to come on and chat with Bunny. Any questions you have for her? Some of you guys might have some good questions for her. Especially a couple of you younger guys that I sent the links out to. But like I said, like Asvarun and Sergio, you guys want to jump backstage. I'll bring you on. Jump on man, let's go. So I know Woody Johnson. I sent you a link also. But Sergio says he's at a loud place, but we're expecting Pat Steadman to jump on soon, so. I love it. Yeah. So anyways, we'll get off that subject. I do have another question about the MIGTOW, the MIGTOW group. Yeah, okay. I have no hate or anything for any of the MIGTOW guys. I think they're doing their own thing. If they want to walk away from women, I guess, or walk away from dating, that's their choice. I find it difficult, because I think that's our biological need as men. I agree. I really do. I think it's, I think maybe you've made some bad choices. This is just my opinion. Don't get mad at me, MIGTOW guys. But maybe you made some bad choices, you know? So, and maybe you weren't leading the way you should have. I mean, there's a lot of things. Now, don't get me wrong. I get it.  I understand it 100%, so what are your thoughts on MIGTOW? I will say that, you know, MIGTOW does say men going their own way. You know, they walked away from women, but I think there are some MIGTOW guys out there that, man, when I look at them, I'm like, man, I think it was quite the opposite. I think women walked away from you. So that's just my opinion. I think that's the perfect way to intro this with me, because probably some of, and I don't get a lot of hate. Like, I've been very, I think my age and stage in life goes a long way. I think the fact that I'm in a relationship goes a long way. That I'm not just like some young single girl on here, just like talking about the things that I talk about. I think that earns me a little bit of just kind of, kind of respect for lack of a better way to put it. But the most hate that I've ever gotten from a group has been from the MIGTOW group, because not only do they not want to hear women talk about sex, attraction, relationship, girl brain, they definitely just, they don't want to hear from women. They genuinely have zero interest in what I have to say. Now, what I always encounter with is then don't watch my stuff. Don't, I mean, it's fine, I respect that. And I definitely believe that, and this is coming from a place of someone who hasn't had a lot of great interactions with MIGTOW guys, but I definitely believe that for the most part, like the divorce rate, just going through a bad breakup, going through a family, you know, dissolving, going through a marriage dissolving, I think that there's a healthy level of stepping out of, out of the game for a second and resetting, focusing on yourself. I mean, putting yourself first, really resetting. But I think that most men are best suited if they don't stay there forever.  They're home. And they don't have any need or respect for what I say, which is absolutely fine, but they're so angry.   You don't have any lessons to teach me. Exactly, exactly. But there is that, you know, we've all heard the red pill rage. A lot of guys stay in there, but there's also, there is that rage.  Yeah, I totally get it. I totally get it.  Absolutely. And I do understand that. Oh, there's some serious cons out there. Serious cons. Absolutely. But. They go out of their way. I mean, I, this is, this is my gender, but there are a lot of females who will go out of their way to make their exes life absolutely miserable. I get it. I can't even imagine.   But those women have not gotten consult from me because I do not teach that. But I, you know. I think it's a, it's a place that you could visit. And, you know, when I first came across to MGTOW, in fact, I think it was me, Primal and Gonzo did a show. It's been a while since we did. I think it was, what is MGTOW? And we were talking all the different, is there such thing as a married MGTOW? We came, we tried to pull every bit out of it. And I had thought about, thought about it. And I'm like, wait now, maybe, maybe I'm more MGTOW than these actual MGTOWs. Don't get me wrong. I literally, I love to date women. That's just- Yeah, you enjoy the company. I love the company of a good woman around. But there's also, I also enjoy this in my home. Yeah. Without any woman around. I'm honest, but I don't, I just, I think that just walking away from them all together and getting like hookers, that doesn't seem to be healthy. Doesn't seem to be healthy for any man. I agree. In my experience, it's not good for the brain chemistry. I think that, hey Pat, I don't think that MGTOW is a healthy place to hang out for 99.9% of men. I think that kind of like the quiet cat lady librarians who have zero interest in sex or men or anything. I think that there's that, I think that's what a garden variety hardcore MGTOW is. But for the most part, I think that it serves the community in that it needs, but it needs to be a temporary stop, not a permanent place.  Yeah, exactly. Pat, I'm so excited you're here. Absolutely. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to have a great conversation that you and I always have a good combo too. So I'm excited to see you tonight. I'm excited to see you too, Bunny. And of course, Tony, thank you so much for having me on. Absolutely. Obviously, we're not gonna reinvent the wheel here. I know you guys had a long conversation, but I guess the last thing you guys were talking about was MGTOW. What is your take on MGTOW? I think that, I mean, I agree with you. I agree with what was just said about it being fine as like a stopping off point. Cause you know, I think that journeys in general, people have journeys, right? And I think that you could view from that lens, MGTOW is kind of like part of an awakening process about female nature and about, and how it very much can be or feel unfair. But my issue is that, I think that there's like an inherent inconsistency. Like if a man doesn't care about, doesn't wanna bother with women because they don't like how women are and they wanna go do their own thing, they wanna go their own way, it's totally fine. Right. But then why are you talking about it? Yeah, thank you. Yes, exactly. That's kind of my thing. That's a really good one, Pat. That's the more he's talking about. Like it's like. Well, just like when they come into my DMs, I'm like, why are you bothered by this or why are you feeling the need to tell me? If you don't want to listen to what I say, that's fine. You don't need to come to tell me that you don't wanna hear me. Do you think it's, but to me, what it is, it's like the cigarette smoker who stops smoking cigarettes, the heavy drinker who stopped drinking. Yeah. You have to save everybody else who is in that situation or think they do. When realistically it's more annoying sometimes. What you're trying to do. I think it's that it's very clearly on their mind all the time. So it's not, it's kind of like when they say they're going their own way, that they're done with women, it's almost like protest behavior. Like maybe now someone's gonna, maybe now she'll listen kind of thing. It's not, the subconscious is responding very differently than what they tell themselves they're actually doing. And that's kind of my issue because I don't care what people do. I just kind of wanna hold them accountable to be consistent. That's great. I love that accountability, man. I'm really big on that is when a guy does have an issue. And man, I am not coming down on men right now. I get it, trust me. I feel you're pulling more than anybody. And again, I'm there to support you but there comes to a point after you're out of your rage, you have to hold yourself accountable. You chose that woman, you chose that path in life. You did and not always, not always. I get it. I get it, women go feral. I get that too. But you do have some accountability for what happened in a relationship. Not all the time, but I'll say most of the time. And I think there's something to be said for if a man is going to, or a person, this is a gender specific.  That's letting them lead the way the whole rest of your life. It's incredibly destructive. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I just say to what you just mentioned, Tony, is that there's always something that you can take responsibility for, even in the worst most unfair situations. I mean, we won't get into it. I'm in an unfair situation. But you can always take responsibility. You can always see that you contributed in some way to your outcome. And I think you have to do that. And you have to find that. A lot of guys get hung up on this where it's like, well, it's not fair. It doesn't matter. It's not fair. It's kind of like, it doesn't matter. It actually doesn't matter because you just disempower yourself by not taking responsibility. You don't learn from the experience. OK, let's say you married some woman who lied to you. She lied to you about who the kids were. You paid child support all these years.  She's a terrible human being.  You married her.  So you can take responsibility there. And you can say, yeah, I chose this woman. And I was also weak throughout it. And I could have changed. I could have addressed that. It's just I think people get too hung up on what's fair and what's not. Life isn't linear. There's no linear. This person's good. This person's bad. That's no offense. It's how children think. The world is very complex. And if you want to really get down to it, it's not just cause and effect. There's infinite causes that determine a specific effect. It's just a matter of perspective. And all we have control over is our perspective. That's right. That's very true. I want to welcome Asvaron. Hello, hello. Oh, hello, hello. How are you doing? Good to see you. Good to see you. I told you. Good to see you. It's good to meet you. Yeah. Yeah, I went. You've met Asvaron before. I think Asvaron looks different every time. Sometimes he has a beard. Sometimes he doesn't.  But so I want to get with Pat real quick on the topic tonight, which was attraction versus sexual attraction. And I'm hoping Asvaron has a good question for Bunny tonight and can talk to her about this. But I kind of broke it down as to attraction.  She aligns with your values. You think she's pretty. She might not be a model type or something like that, but you like her. And say the sexes might be vanilla.  You know what I mean? That's kind of, I think, is your basic attraction.   I had added a little caveat to that, to where I think sometimes this is why men cheat. I think there's these rules that people have made up in these men's spaces on why men cheat and why women cheat. But I think a lot of times, it can be men or women just want good sex. That's it. Just want to get fucked, period. I mean, that's just the reality of it. So that's kind of what I said, attraction versus sexual attraction. And I think that in marriages, I was married back in the day. I was.  We just never, we literally, even when we decided we're going to get a divorce, we still had sex until the day she moved out of here. That wasn't an issue. It wasn't. I think that's more common than people like to admit. Yeah, I think it is. But that wasn't, it's just we went completely two different paths. So there was no nothing here. You signed the quick claim deed on the house. I paid for it and done. It was just that simple. I probably had the easiest divorce in history. Like, you'll take this and that's it. You'll be happy. But so that's what I say when I say attraction versus sexual attraction. But I definitely think that a lot of men will settle for a girl who, like you're talking about, is relatively attractive, at least enough to look at. They do have sex.  And that's enough for a lot of men, for better or worse. So what's your take on it? I want to go to you, Pat, first. And then I'll go to Ask Varun with any questions for Bunny or for Pat. Well, I always view attraction in general as divided between desire and comfort. So there's elements of attraction that trigger desire. There's elements that trigger comfort.  I think a lot of that stuff is on the comfort side. But there's a few things on the desire side and obviously I think sex is one of them. I think sexual attraction is not the same as physical attraction. Obviously there's an overlap. Bingo. But there are some, and I think any guy who's dated enough women, I think women would say the same thing in reverse with men, that you could date a gorgeous woman but she's just not really in tune with her sexual energy or maybe you guys are mismatched in some way. So, and then another woman who may not even be what you're usually looking for, there's just something you can feel the charge there. There's something that's being emanated. And I think that some of it is general that every guy can feel it, that that woman uses sex. And I think some of it's specific that you and her have a particular kind of connection. So, when I've talked about like attraction, I said the three pillars of attraction, pre-selection, persona, personality, pre-selection would be a lot of the more surface things. Persona would be kind of game and affected behaviors that create charge. And then you have personality, which is more, I'm being very super quick with this, not the good, but the more deeper things that are most completely unconscious that make up who somebody is. I don't talk about this a lot, but I think that that same structure applies also to sex. So, you have on the pre-selection side of things, you have like literally the physical features of that person that turn you on. And then you have the persona, which is do they know how to fuck? Are they in touch with sexual energy? And then you have the personality, the sexual personality in which there's sort of a more distinct compatibility between two individuals. And you and that person could have a lot of other problems, but you might have really, really strong sexual compatibility. So, I do think it's different. I definitely think it's different, like sexual attraction and sort of a more general attraction. And I do think that a lot of guys will quote unquote settle. The only thing, I guess it's fair to say settle, but I think we always look for things holistically with people and a lot of it has to do with just broader priorities. Yeah. I don't think they think of it as settling. I don't think they think of it as settling, correct.  Like you just, like you have some kind of like, almost like a revulsion on that sense from the other person, or it's just doesn't work at all, versus like, holy shit, this is amazing. It's just so natural and easy. And I think with any of the key areas, so long as you get to like, this is good. And, you know, I also think that sex can improve over time. I think that you can, you can, I don't think very few people, I think are really equipped to do that, but I think- I think very few people actually put the effort into getting better at it. Let me ask you a question since you're on that real quick, I'm gonna kind of interject here. I've seen this a million times that and I've experienced it myself to where you get so comfortable with someone, okay? And we can call it, oh God, what's the other word I'm looking for? But you get so comfortable with somebody that, and I see this in marriages all the time. In fact, somebody had mentioned this to me this past week about basically I tried to basically have sex and she just wasn't into it. So I think that you get so comfortable with somebody that there's really not that, and I get kids and all that are involved, but I think you need to make that time, but it's just like you get so very comfortable and complacent that you're almost afraid to bring out your sexual side again.  It disappears and you just, you almost feel embarrassed to bring it up. Yeah. And I think you get afraid of rejection and you just get very, you get too comfortable as well. And I think that there's two things here. I think the first is that there's a natural, like women, I do think that there's a tendency for them to lead with a certain side in the beginning and often will become more tame, especially in today's culture. There's a lot of things are really hot in the beginning and then they sort of pull back and don't identify with it as much. But I think it's, I think both the man does it to his woman and I think the woman does it to herself. 1000% yes.  But I think fundamentally with women, it's a choice about whether to be sexual. Like men have, I think it's the nature of yang, masculine energy is just kind of like emerges in them. And then it's like the challenge for a man is how he uses that energy that's kind of given to him. But I think that for women on the sexual front, it's more about receptivity. And I think some women and a woman maybe at different times throughout her life is going to be more receptive. So I think a lot of women who are like high sex drive are more open to receiving sexual energy. And then that said they kind of radiated out as a result.  It's that the women, especially once they have kids, they start to view themselves. And it's, I think it's unconscious, but they're like, I'm not that woman. And a lot of red pill guys, I think that they, I'm not saying that they're like wrong about some of the diagnosis. I think it's mischaracterized in the sense that, oh, now she got me and now like, I'm just like the beta and she's not interested in sex. A lot of it I think has to do with the woman's own issues and how she views herself. Yeah, 1,000%. Yes. And she has to choose differently. And I think that's one of the reasons that often you see a woman kind of get to the end of her fertility range, not simply outside of a relationship, even within a relationship.  And like, it just happens like that. All of a sudden she's really horny. And it's like, well, how did that happen? I think there's a sort of choice that happened the woman decided to do. But women maybe do have some degree of issue. A lot of them will have an issue making that choice within a dynamic that's already been established a certain way, right? And so maybe the relationship ends and then they give themselves permission to like be sexual. And a lot of guys take that personally, understandably. But this is what I'm building this whole thing to. I see in relationships the real issue over time, like things become comfortable and complacent. I don't, I think it's because that there's just not enough challenge within the relationship on a psychological level.  Exactly. May I have some more please? Like. Yeah, or he's like petulant about it. Yeah. And it's not coming from a place of like, he's not owning the wound. And I think it's the same thing for women on their own part. And if you get into like a real, I'm trying to think of the right word for it. There's a really good book called Passionate Marriage, which I recommend people read, it's very high level, but it's having, it's like the crucible basically, where you're confronting these blockages and from what I've seen and experienced that when you really confront like you wanna have sex, the other person is not always that it's going wonder, it's not only always that the woman doesn't wanna do it, contrary to belief in this community, it's probably two to one, three to one, easily one quarter of the time, the woman wants to have more sex and it's the man who's got the block about it. And when you confront this crucible, it's like all of these belief patterns and things that are stopping the people in a relationship to really open up sexually, they start to break down and when they do break down, the relationship, people get so close, but the sex, this is what's so amazing, it's like the sex gets really, really good. But it's difficult and it requires a certain level of willingness to let the relationship die, because it is really self confrontation, like you're kind of holding space for the other person, but they have to confront themselves as you confront yourself. And that's why things get boring in a relationship because people get comfortable and they get too comfortable, like a relationship is always tension and trust, right? Tension, trust, tension, trust. And if there's not enough, like when you have a good amount of trust built up, then you have to hit the tension again, challenge that next layer and that's scary because then maybe it will fall apart. You lose all that, but if you don't challenge that next layer, it'll definitely fall apart. Well, yeah, most likely, it'll most likely, it can die in both directions, exactly. Or then you settle for something that's safe and comfortable. But it's safe and comfortable, but it doesn't actually stay safe and comfortable. I think that's where people get so lazy for lack of a better word, they behave in this way so that not to ruffle any feathers, but because of that behavior, then the relationship that differentiates you and your spouse or you and your chosen partner from any other relationship out there, you're not giving any time or effort to. So it falls apart in that way just out of absolute fear or laziness. I love what you're saying. I love what you're saying. Preach. I don't think that it's a hard concept for a lot of people, especially because you have to understand in order to do it successfully, the fundamental principle is that you have to take full responsibility, this is circles back to before, for the sex not being where you want it to be.  Well, if you're taking that personally, part of the reason she's pulling back is because you are looking to her to behave in a certain way so that you feel good about yourself. So you actually have to own your own emotions and not allow yourself to get triggered by her own fear response to going deeper into it. And it's, I mean, once it's like, you have to rise above the dynamics of the interaction and then she sees that you're not like down there with her and she's then faced with, she either has to rise to your level and confront her own fears or you guys naturally will grow apart and the relationship will collapse. One thing that I have heard on a podcast this past week, I'm not sure if everybody's familiar with Andrew Huberman. Yeah, love him. Yeah, and he was talking about, he had on, I think it's Rina Malik, she's a urologist that she talks about, she got a huge channel, I watched her channel just explode to millions. But he had talked about SSRIs and all these different things that are actually killing sex drive in women and in men. So that's another thing that I think that I'm not qualified to talk about. I don't know if anybody else is qualified to talk about it here, but I really listened to that in depth because as we know, so many probably more women than men are on these type of drugs. I mean, I've talked with Dr. Sean Smith about this, about these antidepressants and also the, I'm not even sure the name of them, your volumes and things like that, but those like kills sex drive. Well, and I would say that what you're saying about like more women than men are on them, I think that that's probably true as a whole, but also I think that women stay on them more longitudinally where men may visit them in a time of need and then wean off of them. I think women, when they get on more predominantly than not, they get on drugs of this nature to stay on them forever. Yeah, I think it's like 40% of millennial women are on antidepressants. I believe it. Yeah, that's like the Zoloft and all those different ones, right? Yeah. It's always kind of like crazy when you, if you ever like over here, a brunch, I'm looking for a power, a brunch. Like you overhear some women at a brunch and like they're talking about all their like pharmaceutical drugs they're taking. Yeah, it's true. It's like pre-blackpilling, honestly. I want to go to as Varun, as Varun, it's you're on the hot seat now. So, any questions for- What do you feel like talking about? Yeah, we're gonna, I mean, the topic is attraction and sexual attraction. So, Asvarun always has some great insights, Asvarun is in India right now and he is Hindu. So, in fact, anybody on 21 or on my channel, if you haven't seen my podcast and conversation with Asvarun, it's on my channel. It's really interesting, very interesting. Great time, it was just really a good, good time. So, but yeah, let's go to Asvarun. Any questions about attraction or sexual attraction or any input? Yeah, Bunny, I've noticed one thing. In a relationship, it's always, nowadays it's like a transaction. It's either based on lust, greed or fear and because of these three emotions, negative emotions, I've noticed the relationship does not last long. First, they say that you've got to be wealthy and prosperous to get a woman and I'll agree with that. But in many cases, that also has not worked out in the long run. Then they say that you have to be handsome, tall and well-built and athletic. But I've seen so many people who are handsome, tall, well-built and athletic and who are beautiful also being divorced. Then there are cases of fear actually, like probably for the sake of survival, the woman would have married him out of fear actually and even that also has not worked out. So from my experience actually, any relationship based on lust, greed and fear has never worked out. So what's your take on that, Bunny? I love that. I think that's a great take.  We have to, this is, I think this goes along with something that, because you and I are not terribly familiar with one another, I often talk about women are actually much less concerned about a man's physical appearance as other attributes. We're okay with the dad vibes. We're okay with a man not being ripped, jacked and tanned and all the things that you were listing exactly because that doesn't necessarily make a great husband or a great partner. And I think that's where lust, greed and fear come in. One thing that for Worth, my man and I always say is that a woman's primary feeling particularly once she's married and once she's a mother is one of guilt. I think that falls right in line with exactly what you're saying. But yeah, this is why you see some of the most happily married men or the most happily married couples, I think. And it's not that either one of them are all that good-looking. Just like Tony said at the onset of the program about you wanna see the happiest couples go to Walmart. I don't know how familiar you are with Walmart but it's a mess, you know. These couples are at Walmart, they are.  But I think that what you're saying about lust, greed and fear and not necessarily the most attractive couples being the most successful is 1000% on target. I agree completely. Because I follow a lot of what happens in the world of the celebrities and the models from the 90s and 80s they looked really very good like Linda Evangelista, Cindy Crawford, then Nadja Arman. All of them have at least had one divorce actually like one or two divorces or they didn't have successful marriages. Like even if you can remember Ellie and Irvin all these women who walked on the ramp were so desirable. Even they too would have gotten someone desirable to be their husbands but it all ended up in shambles actually. Yeah. Well, your attractiveness doesn't change human nature. It doesn't change human problems. I think that particularly, you know, celebrity couples are, I think they are set up for failure in most cases. It's just any of these kind of high pressure environments that you're nothing but under a microscope at all times.  I think that's why we lift them up so heavily because it's such an anomaly but most of them don't last. Most of them essentially are just trading partners left and right, you know. It's Benifer and then it's JLo and then it's what, I mean, whatever the case may be. It's just like a trading game like card game in celebrity land. So exactly what you're saying you would think that these people would be the most prepared to do the best. And actually it's quite, it seems to be quite the opposite. As Rune, I wanna bring something up that you've mentioned to me is that, and you've mentioned this before that you yourself, you're in India, but you are not, when we're talking about attraction tonight, you are not attracted to Indian women, correct? You are attracted to Western women. So maybe we could talk to Bunny and Pat about that. And I think I had mentioned to you, I think it was backstage that I had showed a couple photos of you to a girl that I know and she was like, send them over here. Who's handsome? So you know what I mean? So what does your guys take on that, Pat and Bunny? Because, I mean, as Rune is outspoken, he's not attracted to women in his country. Now, I see like an Indian woman, there was a girl that I had talked to him about that I had met here. This was probably eight months ago or so. And she was Indian, but she was literally a total knockout. She was younger, but she was just absolutely on point. And I just, I was looking at her and I thought, I'm like, how can as Rune not be attracted to this? Because she was, she was, maybe she was an exception. I think she was exceptional as far as I'm concerned. Not as an Indian woman, but just exceptional as a woman. You know what I mean? But so what's your guys take on, we'll go to Bunny first on why, why do you think as Rune or is not attracted to Indian woman and really only Western woman? Because he has a type.  And if his dick's not telling him that that kind of woman is appealing to him, there's nothing that his brain's gonna say to override that, you know? It's, it just, if it doesn't, you know, I know that's a very crass way to put it, but it's the reality that our culture doesn't dictate what we're attracted to in a sexual partner. Before I mentioned that, I just wanna, I just wanna make a quick comment on the, on the prior thing about attractive couples. Yes. And, and why they tend to fall apart so much more often. They're tested a lot more because they're attractive. They have other suitors. They have other options. 1,000%. And so their relationship, they have to be way more on point with each other.  I'm not trying to be mean. I am being mean. But I'm trying to, I'm trying to create this like, because they're happy together because they're almost the, like the physical attraction, everything is so not there that their relationship is anchored in this sort of more deeper kind of unconditional love. But, you know, I say unconditional love, but let's say one of those individuals was like, they're gonna get in really great shape. And they, you know, I've seen this all the time that they move past the other one because the other one won't go with them. So I think a lot of it, it's not that, I actually, like my perspective on this ultimately is that looks, fame, all that stuff is not bad to have for a relationship. It's actually makes you have to consciously, consciously, you know, reflect so much more and really prioritize so much more. Like it's, I think it's a more, it may be a more challenging spiritual path through the perspective of a relationship than, you know, just kind of being complacent and hoping somebody accepts you. I think that's a good way to put it.  I do think that there's some degree of subliminal programming from media that has sort of promoted white women in this way, especially because they're sexualized so much more than any other race. I think that Asian women are starting to go there as well. And I think that you're starting to see a big fetish towards Asian women, I'm not fetish, maybe, but there's a lot of guys who are preferring Asian women find themselves around Asian women. I'm talking more East Asian, by the way, like Korean, Japanese. So I do think that there's a lot of subliminal stuff, but that's so like, like, my grandmother caught me when I was in second grade looking at Victoria's Secret magazine. And she was like, oh, good, you're normal. But like, I have no idea if, you know, simply from looking at that, like, because I've always been attracted to tall model type women. I mean, was that like other guys I know are way into curvy girls. I just never have been. I've always been, you know, the gazelle. So it's like, that's what I was gonna, because when you said that, that's exactly what's gonna be my comment as we're doing too, like kind of like a social conditioning is what it is. I guess you would call it just kind of what you see is what you, what's being forced down your throat or what you see maybe the most or what you look at the most is maybe what you desire the most. Maybe not by choice, but just by that's what's, that's what you've been seeing. So that's, and a lot of times I think with men too is something that is out of our reach is sometimes as most desirable. And I think that goes with a lot of men, you know. Okay, I have a question along these lines for you as Vareem. So I have a personal training client actually and he is Hispanic. And something that he said to me because we were talking about like the girls that he dates and things of that nature. He said that he is not attracted to girls, to other girls who are Hispanic. He's not attracted to girls of his own culture because specifically they just felt too familiar. Their families looked just like his family. Their practices were just like his. It felt very incestuous to him. Do you feel like maybe that's maybe a part of what's going on with you? Yeah, I mean lack of adventure because like I'm interested in something that's foreign and alien to me because when it comes to India, I've become so familiar with everything, the way people look over here, the customs and traditions, everything like that.  There's nothing new to experience itself. So I want a new experience. I respect that. Yeah, that's the main problem actually. That's fascinating. I mean, I think that's really interesting. Well, I got two words for you, Asverun. That's called plain ticket. Actually three words, passport, plain ticket. That's right, exactly, exactly. There you go.  Exactly. That's what it would be. Yeah. American women need love too. Yeah. That's right. You know, but you've got to think about it. Asverun gets to America and he's like, wait a minute, what have I done? What have I done? This place is terrible. I've made a terrible mistake. Yeah, so probably get a round trip, not just one, right? Just to be on the safe side. Yeah, you can have an open end on the return flight. He's like, Indian women have never looked so good to me. Asverun, anything else that you want to bounce off, funny or bad, go for it. Yeah, we also said that many people say money brings happiness. There are a lot of people who are into that notion as well. So I've seen people like celebrities and oligarchs, they have it all, looks, money, status. They're the ones who are actually the most miserable in their marriages, to be honest. Agreed. They've got everything. Well, money doesn't cure problems. It's just that when you don't have money, everything seems to revolve around a monetary fix. I think that, so when you don't have money to fix everything that comes across, you know, that's all you can focus on. But I do think that more money, more problems. I mean, I think that it's just a different style of problems that people run up into when you have the money to make things, the kind of circus level problems fix, it doesn't necessarily fix the fundamental issues that cause real trauma in lives. What do you think, Pat? Well, to sort of, I mean, bouncing off of that and to sort of echo what I said earlier, I view, I think if we look at everything from a physical perspective, we're like, okay, this is what money does, and that means it's bad. But then we can also look at lack of money and be like, oh, well, not having any money is also a problem. I think that God challenges people through both hardship and blessings. And I think, you know, most people don't have money, so we think, oh, well, having money would be really great.  I think money is, I view it as a challenge, as a test. I don't think that, I think many people, you know, do lose much that they love as a result of having that blessing, but I don't, I view it as, you know, if you have that, that it's a challenge for you, and it's a good thing for your own spiritual growth. You know, I don't, I guess what I'm trying to say is, no, I don't believe that you should be pursuing money, you know, love of money over everything else, but I don't like blaming like a factor. I think it's always who you are, how you respond to it, your level of maturity. A lot of people will get rich, so blow up their entire lives. Maybe they get poor again, and then maybe they get rich the next time, and they have a proper perspective on things, and I see that very often. I think the issue is that the people that we see for the most part who are rich had got that wealth in an unearned way, or in a very, very rapid way, like they became a celebrity, so they went from, you know, they were maybe selling out some like empty shithole venues, and then they got picked up, and then within the course of a year or two, now they're on the top billboards, they're making millions of dollars, or that's a huge spiritual test, you know? And a lot of people will flunk it, and they'll forget themselves in the process, and they'll forget the people what actually matters, so. Well, as Varun, I mean, in India where you're at, you're in a caste system, and you're considered in the upper class of the caste system, right? Yeah, so do you think that can be an issue too? Like do you think that is there a woman that's not in your class, or your caste is what it's called, I believe, is that correct? Yeah, caste, caste, caste. Yeah, in your caste that you would be attracted to, but that you wouldn't, your family wouldn't agree with it, is that, can that be an issue also? I mean, that could be there, over here, but actually, like my parents are a bit relaxed with whom I'd want to bring home. They're not very, very tight on these matters, but in general, in this country, they are in the rural areas, they're very conservative as to whom you should marry and whom you should not, but slowly it's changing actually. It's slowly becoming like the West, but a lot of conservatism is still there in the rural side. Urban areas, they're no longer very bothered about whom you marry and whom you don't. But the rural areas are very conservative. Okay, cool. Well, I'm gonna start wrapping it up. I wanna thank Pat Steadman for jumping on, of course, always a pleasure, and we're gonna do something shortly here, I hope, because I've got a couple of things that I've been, I have my pad that I scribble stuff down and I have certain ones just for Pat. You get your own notebook, Pat. My brain starts working and I'm like, there's a good one for Pat. No pressure. He can go with that one.  He has been my number one guest and I think the reason I say that is too is because his information and the way he can break down things, I don't think many people are able to do that. I know I'm not able to do that and I'm not here to provide information. I'm here to provide a platform to give information with my experts. That's really what I'm about. So, and anybody from 21, you know, check out my channel, check out some of my podcasts, especially ones with Pat and check out the last one I had with Ivy. She's a cam girl and only fans, but it was really, it was a, it was an interesting discussion for sure. So, I really enjoyed that. And I do think my next one, I'm trying to do a series with women.  And I think Bunny gave us just great points and was really honest.  I can definitely tell she's not a feminist. That's for damn sure. So- My father, my father was very clear that he was not raising a feminist. Any time I would kind of have that vent or kind of lean that direction and conversation with him. And I'm an only child, so it was just me. And he would, he would stop me in my tracks really quickly and make it was very clear that he was not raising a feminist. Yeah, I want everybody to check out the links on 21. Bunny's Twitter is in there. The channel Fort Worth Playboy is in the links on 21 Studios and on my channel. Also, oh, that's what I want to do. Okay, yes, okay. Also, this is Bunny on her Twitter.  You will be, I love this.  That is awesome. I love the way that's put. So tell me about- Thank you, thank you. I have a serious passion. I also have another course and I'm not trying to sell it.  I want them to have high quality sexual relationships because I truly believe that that is the bedrock of how well they see eye to eye in every other area of life. I think it just makes relationship easier when the sexual relationship is good, which is why I have also Ignite Your Wife. It's a 30 day course because there are a lot of people in sex-starved long-term marriages like the people that we've talked about tonight that are just miserable and starving for sexual attention and these guys are at a complete loss as to how to reignite their wife. So sex is definitely my passion and it's not meant to be pornographic or lewd. It's just because it's the one thing that you have with this other person that you don't have with anyone else. Absolutely and I think that more frank discussions on sex are important. I know me and Pat have had those discussions. It's always come up but I think it's important but I do think it's an uncomfortable conversation to have for a lot of people and it's uncomfortable for women. Yeah and it can be uncomfortable for even people watching. Yeah. Well and that's why, and that's what Forworth and I talked about quite a bit. I know you're trying to wrap up. Oh, that's okay. Because he says nobody wants to hear me talk about sex.  But I'm comfortable talking about it and it helps that I'm not a guy. So it's a win-win. Yeah, no, I'm 100% on board with that. It's, it is to me, it's kind of, yeah, it's different. You know, that's why I say talking with a woman about it is different because we're getting your perspective too and we're getting a perspective that women like sex too and I think that's a big part of the hemisphere and men's spaces is about sex. So the more we talk to women about it that are open to talking about it, the more information men are gonna get about that issue that they might have.  It's boring. There's a time for a quickie. I mean, let's face it.  I just, I love it. I just think that's so important. And if that, and you know, I'll tell guys this that if that energy isn't there and that sexual energy isn't there with the woman that you're with, move on, move on because you will find someone that you can have that with without a doubt. So what I do wanna say also Pat Steadman's links are in the descriptions of both videos on 21 and on my channel. So check out Pat and you have to get on Pat's. I'm gonna get on, Bunny, you have an email list too, right Bunny? I sure do. And I have one that's sex specific too.  But I have adult education, which is sex specific. And then I have my Bunny report, which is more generalized attraction. Well, I'm gonna sign up for both of those. And so I hope everybody else will, like I said, Pat's. Pat's, when I see Pat's come through, I gotta stop and I wait till at night when I can read him. And I read him in depth because he gets super deep into everything he talks about. I'm trying to think the last one that I was, that was really good. God, what is it? I can't even, I can't think right now, but- Pat, what was the last one that you did? Yeah, there was the one- Pat was on unconditional love. No, that was the one before that. It was- They're always good. Yeah, it was the one before that, but it was really, really good. I think I mentioned it on the last show, Iran. But always, you know, sign up for these emails and get on the list. I mean, it's just an email. If you start reading it, you don't like it, you don't have to finish reading it. But, you know, it's nice to kind of see what other people are thinking and getting their thoughts on these subjects, especially when it comes to relationships, especially if you're in a failed relationship or you're not in a relationship or you're looking to be one or you're looking not to be one. So, you know, more information from people that give good input on things, the better, you know?  Who cares? You know, check it out. So, but we'll end it at that. If you guys want to hang backstage for a second, I appreciate everybody joining us tonight. It's been awesome, Bunny. You were awesome. I had such a chance- Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, and we'll definitely do it again sometime. I had a good time. Yeah, I'll pick up another subject soon for sure, but I would love to have you come on again.  I'll drop the link and we can just do a full-on Q&A. I wanted to do that- I love that. I love that. We didn't get a chance. We got so deep into everything, but as Varun, thank you for coming on. Like I said, you want to hang backstage. Pat Steadman, thank you for coming on. Always, always a pleasure. And you guys hang for a bit and we'll end this, but cheers everybody. Appreciate everybody watching. Have a good evening. Thank you. Thank you.