Yeah. Yes. So it'll be good if one of us can please lead in prayer and then we can get to our notes. Anyone who's comfortable to pray from where you are? Can I pray? Yes, please. Precious Father, we thank you and praise you and honour you God for this wonderful morning. We submit ourselves before your holy presence with Daddy. We ask you, Father, fill us with your wisdom and revelation and 85 or feet to God. And Lord Master, Lord Master, give us your understanding, give us your vision, give us your plan, or Lord Master, strengthen your servant as she's going to speak of God, Master. Let it from your throne room, Daddy. And also I ask you, prepare each one of your heart so that every word while she's going to release your Father. Let it be a good seed in our heart so that we can produce, O Father God, Lord Master, fruits for your kingdom and for your glory. Cover this entire session under your blood of God. All the glory and honour and praises belong to you. In Jesus' most holy and matchless name I pray. Thank you, Master. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Shikumar, for leading us in prayer. So we will continue. We talked about transfer of the prophetic anointing in the last class and I remember there were some really good questions. And we understood that the anointing can be transferred. The anointing can be transferred from one person to another person. We also saw how it can be transferred across generations. We saw how the desire that one has is also in a sense instrumental in receiving the anointing. And the most important thing that we saw is that the anointing is from God. So it's God who gives the anointing so people can't give it to one another. So these are some of the key points about the transfer of the anointing. And one more very important point that we saw is that the anointing may not get transferred completely. Or when we look at a particular person and their ministry, they can have the anointings, several anointings to do what they need to do. But the same empowering may not come and rest upon another individual. Maybe parts of what you see in a certain individual can be seen in another individual. Depending on the next person's calling and purpose and the grace that God has given that person. And then we saw how prophetic ministry is very helpful in giving direction to leaders. Not just direction but just speaking God's heart to leaders even in their personal journey. And we've seen a lot of that in the Old Testament. And that encourages us. As we look at leaders today maybe in the political arena. We can hear from God for these people and we can impart the wisdom of God, the direction of God to leaders. So that also is encouraging. We looked at demonic opposition. We said well there is genuine prophetic ministry. You know Satan is he never has the original but he's only good at coming up with a counterfeit to the original. It's only when the original is so good that there is someone is wanting to make a counterfeit to that. So the prophetic ministry is real. And whenever there is genuine prophetic ministry in the Old Testament we've seen that there has been an opposition from Satan. So Moses we talked about that when he goes to Pharaoh's courts there he has sorcerers who try to compete with him. But we know that the anointing or the demonstration of the supernatural through Moses overcomes that of the sorcerers. And then we also see that we also see how Elijah is an individual who demonstrates the supernatural and the prophetic anointing through his life. And you have the opposition from the people practicing witchcraft under Jezebel. And the reality of this opposition was unmistakable because you find Elijah literally running for his life. And he also hid himself and came to an extent where he did not want to live anymore. So this was because of the kind of spirits and I explained to us last time that the Jezebel spirit that a lot of people refer to even today. It has to do with a demonic entity if you all remember when we did the sessions on believers authority and demonology. We said that the demons have hierarchy they have specializations. So when we talk about the Jezebel spirit it's a class of demonic spirits that engage in intimidating, controlling. Manipulating seducing spying spirits. So these are the activities of the Jezebel spirit. So obviously Elijah was being put down by these kind of spirits. But thank God we know how God encouraged Elijah and he came out of his depression. Moving on today we will look at a couple of other things from the Old Testament and if we completed then we'll quickly go to look at the New Testament and survey the prophetic over there. Here in our notes I am on page 43 where there is an incident in the section given here regarding public ministry personal obedience and ministry association. First Kings chapter 13. So here we see the story of a prophet who goes to prophesy to King Jeroboam. And the beautiful thing is that he prophesies and Jeroboam is not aligned to God. But when this young prophet brings the word of the Lord there is an obvious turnaround in the heart of King Jeroboam. And also there is a very real demonstration of God's power. Jeroboam he stretches his hand towards this prophet and it withers. And he is not able to pull it back. So the king knows that this young prophet is really from God and the word which is from God. So if you look at it there is some amazing prophetic ministry going on. The way we said that prophets would minister to kings. So here is this young prophet ministering to the king. And once he prophesies brings the word of the Lord. The king wants to honor the prophet.   But the word of the Lord given to this young prophet was to go speak the prophecy and then to not associate. To not associate with anyone and to just come back. So the young prophet takes that word very seriously and when the king offers him a reward and food he says no. I don't want any of that and he starts heading back to his home. But on the way in this passage you notice that an older prophet comes along and he lies to this junior prophet and says the word of the Lord came to me and why don't you come and eat with me, drink with me. But then this young prophet is aware that God told him eat no bread and drink no water. However because of the honor that he has for this senior prophet he goes with the senior prophet. And you know he eats he spends time fellowships with this senior prophet. And then what happens is that because it disobeyed God's word this young prophet actually dies. He is put onto a donkey to return back to his home from the senior prophet's house and on the way his death occurs. So from this incident what is it that we learn about prophecy, prophets and public ministry. See the beauty is that this young prophet was accurate. So accuracy cannot be questioned in his ministry. You can't question if he was really obedient to God because he was even the king. When the king told him to come and have a meal he refused. So that shows that his focus was towards God and that he was obedient to God. But what went wrong? You see ministry association, ministry association. Now it is true that we must honor the people who have gone ahead of us in ministry. But you know not above what God has spoken to us. What if this young prophet or the junior prophet responds to the senior prophet and says okay I can't. Like today I can't fellowship with you because I've heard from God. The young prophet knew what God had told him. And still he could refuse the king but he could not refuse his ministry association. And he spent time with the senior prophet. So there is a lesson here for us to learn. And the lesson is that we must be completely committed to the word of God. Even ministry alignment, ministry association should not cause us to go away from the word that God has. Spoken. And also another thing is the junior prophet may have had this desire in his heart that I must get connected to a senior man of God or a more experienced man of God. And when he met this senior prophet he tried to establish that connection. But the right way to have ministry associations is to be led by the spirit. So when the Holy Spirit guides us and says okay so and so person is somebody that you should be associated with. You should be working together with or ministering with. We go with that rather than you know our desire we say okay all these people are there. And I think I should connect with the X, Y and Z. So here is a lesson for us from 1st Kings chapter 13 about ministry association. The key thing is be obedient to God's word. You know whether we are really young in our ministry or we grow older in our ministry our focus should be the word of God. Okay now let's move right along to the next section here in our notes. Which says that in the Old Testament we find several expressions to indicate that God had spoken. Okay when you read these statements we immediately infer okay they are talking about the word of God being released to them. So there are some terms like the burden of the Lord or the burden of the word. So by this one understands that a prophet there are different prophets who have used these words. If you look in your notes here several verses have been enlisted. So I am not going to read each and every verse. There is Isaiah, Ezekiel, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zechariah, Malachi. You know the same term the burden of the Lord. So this is to say that there was a sense within the prophet where the prophet could perceive that God had released. You know in today's language we use the word download. Like you sense something has been put into your spirit. So those days the prophets expressed it in this manner and called it the burden of the Lord. I have received the burden of the Lord whatever you know it could be a word of judgment against Assyria, against this one or the burden of the Lord for something. So they would receive the burden of the Lord and by that we understand that the prophetic word or the word of God had been put into their spirit. So in other words it was why the word burden, the word burden just has to do with the deep sense of responsibility. So when you receive something that's heavy you know you can't pretend that it's not there. If it's heavy you can't carry on with the weight on your shoulders. You really have to do something about it till that weight is taken off and so that is the understanding. So when one received the burden of the Lord it was a deep sense of responsibility where the prophet had to communicate God's word to see a change. Whether it was in individuals or in a community. So the burden of the Lord is something that we hear about and also in some places we read that the prophets saw the burden of the Lord. Now these are all just ways of expressing that God had spoken. Another term or another phrase that is commonly used is the hand of the Lord. The hand of the Lord came upon you know Elijah, Ezekiel is another prophet where you read this expression a whole lot, the hand of the Lord. Now once again our understanding is that the prophet perceived the word of the Lord. Now imagine you know when we are standing and somebody sort of pats us on the back. We can recognize hey somebody's hand is on me and so you know you you don't you don't ignore it isn't it. There is the awareness of a person's hand on us. So similarly when the word of the Lord came to the prophets it all this is a way the hand of the Lord is a way of communicating that one has heard. Heard from God. Then the spirit lifted me. This is another expression and mainly I think in the book of Ezekiel you read a lot of the spirit lifted me you know from one place to another. Now people have these questions did he really travel physically Ezekiel or was it was it in just the visions is likely that he traveled in his visions. So when you read the spirit lifted me once again this was more of the prophetic word being released to Ezekiel. These are the expressions that we find and associated with the word being released to the prophets. There is this sense of seriousness. Shri Kumar I see a question I'll come to you there is a sense of seriousness associated with the prophetic word. Because you see you know just the way we saw the burden of the Lord when there's a burden it needs to be released. So the prophets were very very serious about releasing the word and they were serious about seeing situations and conditions turn around by the release of their word. Okay I'll just come back to Shri Kumar was that a question or did you. Yes please go ahead. Thank you. Pastor is it when Ezekiel was saying that he was lifted up is it you want to say that that it was actually not physically he was not transported or it was just the word was. Ezekiel was lifted up means it's not physically. Yeah so I mean most of the times it had to do with you know the prophetic realm Shri Kumar. Okay so in that case when Elijah was lifted up so and it was told that even you know Elijah you know it was actually he was actually even the even the even the you know disciples of Elijah said that he was always used to be lifted up and the Holy Spirit used to Spirit of the God used to leave him some other part of the location. So then and also when you see the Philips case that he was also physically lifted up and he was he was moved to a different location. And also yeah so these are few things even even if I ask about John in the book of Revelation he was also lifted up. And even the Paul also mentioned that he was also lifted up so is he not is there are we not you know even in Elijah's case are they not physically lifted up in that case. Yeah so that's what I'm saying Shri Kumar I'm saying like primarily when you look at you know Ezekiel the Spirit lifted me it's associated with the prophetic word being released to him. Okay so I'm not saying that it is not possible to be physically transported. It is very much possible to be physically transported. Okay so that is not being refuted. I'm saying in the case of Ezekiel when you read the instances that is more of you know vision. Thank you so yeah we can be physically transported. Okay great so now the next section here is about warnings and judgments. So many of us when we read of the Old Testament prophetic our mind is fixated on judgments because you have Jeremiah. You know prophesying okay come on if you don't repent this is going to happen to you Isaiah prophesying if you don't repent this is going to happen to you. So there's a lot of the judgments and warnings of God are coming to the people. Yes that does happen a lot in the Old Testament. However you know we must recognize that ultimately in the nature of God is love there is forgiveness. Okay so even in the Old Testament we see that people repenting turns God's judgment around. Okay the wonderful example would be the prophet Jonah. Now Jonah goes he prophesies to Nineveh and you know the people turned around isn't it? And Jonah was so angry because the word of warning and judgment which he brought to the people was not fulfilled. Why? Because the people repented. So yes there are warnings and judgments but you know the core nature of God which is of love that also comes across because when people repented the prophetic word was never fulfilled. Now another really nice example is from the life of Ahab. Ahab and Jezebel we talked about them in the context of Elijah and Ahab and Jezebel are known to be very very wicked rulers.  Okay so I'm just trying to find the portion there. Okay yeah it's right here let me read it for us it's in our notes. Okay so God tells Elijah the Tish fight. Arise go down to meet Ahab king of Israel who lives in Samaria. There he is in the vineyard of Naboth where he has gone down to take possession of it. You shall speak to him saying thus says the Lord have you murdered and also taken possession and you shall speak to him saying thus says the Lord in the place where dogs lick the blood of Naboth.  I will take away your posterity and will cut off from Ahab every male in Israel both bond and free. I will make your house like the house of Jerobo and the son of Nebat and like the house of Bashar the son of Ahija because of the provocation with which you have provoked me in anger and made Israel sin. Okay so as you can understand it was a really hard word of judgment that came upon Ahab. However, do we see that Ahab heard these words he tore his clothes you know tearing one's clothes is an expression of repentance. So he tore his clothes and put sackcloth on his body fasted and lay in sackcloth and went about mourning. So basically Ahab is expressing his repentance. Okay and then you know you see that the judgment which came upon him it didn't have things didn't happen exactly the same way. But you know the judgment kind of it was toned down in a way. I mean at all it didn't come upon him at once but you know it kind of slowly unfolded on Ahab.  So you know yes the prophetic word in the Old Testament had to do with judgments quite a lot. But God always relented when people had a change of heart and you know people made a turn around and that's something we must remember. How does that apply for us in today's scenario? Again you know we will look at it when we study the prophetic word in our context you know releasing the prophetic word. Because sometimes people are very fixated on the word of judgment. You know any prophetic word that is spoken is a judgment. God is going to do this to you or this is going to happen to you. But you see generally that's not who God is isn't it? You know he is a God of love but yes there are instances that have to do with warnings and judgments. So we see that in the Old Testament. Now there are times when it is as if God refused to speak. We know that our God is a God who always speaks. He communicates to us but what caused him not to speak? One would be rebellion. In the case of Saul now we are all aware that Saul when he was anointed you know God had great expectations from him. However he went his own way and he engaged in things that did not glorify God. So towards the end of his tenure as king we find that Saul continued to inquire of the Lord. In 1 Samuel 286 it says that when Saul inquired of the Lord the Lord did not answer him. Either by dreams or by urine or by the prophets. So rebellion will keep God's word away from us. Okay and that's something for us to recognize. Again in the book of Ezekiel idolatry people being engaged in idolatry was something that really put God off. And when people inquired of the Lord the word of the Lord was not released to the people. So you know in general God is not a God who punishes by keeping silent. He never does that but we see these two instances idolatry, rebellion that God chose not to answer. Okay now how do we apply this in our context? There are times when we feel why is God silent or why is God not saying anything even though I'm praying about a certain matter. You see God if he's not speaking in a particular situation it might just mean that he wants to speak to us at another time in another way. So God is a God who speaks but if he's not speaking or if he seems to be keeping silent generally it means that he wants to speak to us at another occasion in another time. Okay so that's how we interpret that and we take it in our life context. Now what else is there in the Old Testament? The spirit of God moving through the Old Testament prophets. So there are certain New Testament scriptures that talk about the Holy Spirit releasing his word or inspiring prophets of the Old Testament. So the passage from 1 Peter 1 verses 10 through 12 you know that also talks about you know salvation. The prophets have inquired and searched carefully who prophesied of the grace that would come to you and then you know basically they talk about the revelation that came through the prophets. Also 2 Peter 1 verse 20 and 21 it talks about how no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. You know even when we take the Bible the entire Bible all the books of the Bible we know that it was written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So in that sense it is a prophetic word. It is a prophetic word and also we notice how the Messiah, the life of the Messiah, the prophets released prophetic words to do with that. So all of scripture in that sense when we study it has a lot of prophecy in it and also you could say because it was all inspired by the Holy Spirit it is a prophetic output in that sense. Now coming to the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament prophetic experiences. The Old Testament as we saw is quite dramatic. Not that today's experiences can't be dramatic. Yes even we could experience being transported, the Spirit lifted me, the burden of the Lord came to me, God's word was like fire in my bones. You know one could have such experiences but in general in the New Testament what we see happen is that we all have the indwelling Holy Spirit with us. And because of that the prophetic word you know many a time could just come in a sort of a simple way. And also we see in the Old Testament, just comment with us, someone's, sorry about that. I said that in the New Testament the Holy Spirit indwells us but in the Old Testament the Spirit of the Lord came upon people. Now the other difference would be that prophecy was limited only to the anointed. So you had the prophet prophesying or a priest, a priest, a high priest, people like them hearing from God in certain instances. However in the New Testament every single believer can prophesy. So those are the major differences. So at this point any questions, any thoughts. I'm just looking at the chat here and it says, okay so Shri Kumar is saying that our prophets who speak like Old Testament prophets in the church can be received there. So yes Shri Kumar, you know the delivery style can be very different. Some people could you know speak like thus as the Lord and you know it almost sounds like lightning and thunder. But as long as it's the prophetic word I think it's good. You can still receive it. And then there are others you know who might just say I was praying and this is what I sense this is going to happen. You just receive it. What's important is the prophetic word not necessarily the delivery. If we can focus more on the word than the style of delivery, I think that is good. Basri and Kish sometimes they speak like you know they release the judgment on the people and that is the thing I'm asking. Yeah, sometimes they speak judgment on the people because you know that you know the curse is coming. And it's like you know it's like for the new believers or like you know it is rather than edifying their faith as it is written that the prophecy should edify the faith. But sometimes it you know brings lot of fear in the heart of the people. So in that maybe their prophecies I'm not saying their prophecies will not be right. But the way how they speak judgments directly and in between their prophecies maybe right also. But in some cases that can you know bring rather than building their faith that can bring lot of fear in their heart. So in that case how can we deal the things. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Really good question. See that's the reason we are studying scripture. Okay and from scripture we see that words of warning and judgment it is part of the prophetic. Okay now it is definitely part of the prophetic but in general okay we don't see God do that. So if I put it in a way that you can understand what I'm saying is 99.9%. You have you know direction, you have encouragement, you have things like that happening. But maybe a 0.01% is the warning that comes from God. Okay so when we see someone releasing words of judgment and warning constantly. We have every right to kind of say okay I'm shutting down this can't be from God. You know so we can have that maturity and we can be like okay forget it. You know God is not a God who is going around threatening people and making them scared and pushing them away not at all. Because that does not match up to the core of the prophetic that we are talking about right now. Okay so unfortunately a lot of people don't know and they listen and they take that word the sikomani. No problem and it really breaks the spirit and it draws them away from God. So the whole point of the prophetic is defeated. Very true, very true. Thank you. Okay I'm just looking at the chat here. Samuel I'll come to you. There are some questions where there are false prophets. Yes Kennedy there were false prophets as well remember when we first started we talked about the test of accuracy. And we said that there can be people who say thus says the Lord or in the name of God but what they're saying is incorrect. Okay so there were false prophets there are false prophets there are false prophecies. Yeah so that is dead. Anita prophet does not have to be honest. His character as in case of the one who was supposed to curse Israel. Yeah so yes Anita a prophet the character of a prophet is very important we will study about it later on as well. So when the prophet has character it's like the wine skin that holds the wine. The wine is the prophetic anointing. Now if the character is broken or the wine skin is broken the wine will not last very long. Eventually it will leak out and eventually it is not contributing to the growth the maturing of the body of Christ. So it's a very unfortunate thing. But yes the character of the prophet is important a prophet has to be honest. I hope that answers your question for now. Anita okay yeah she says yes.  Thank you pastor. Can you hear me? Yes yes very well. So pastor on the topic of the nature of prophecy which is when we look at the Bible we see the majority of the recorded prophecies that we have is about warning and judgments. Especially you know around people who seem to you know like God has chosen them for a purpose like like David. God's anointed him put him on a place and he seems to be going astray and God uses prophet Nathan to tell him that you've done something wrong. And similarly for Ahab and other most cases like God has chosen like Israel as a nation God's chosen body.  You guys are not working walking in God's way so repent come back and God's calling you back. And so but now what we say is that's kind of flipped. So the nature of prophecies now it's more it's not about warning and judgment like. It's very less the lesser percentage of the warning but it's more about God has this plans for you. God's going to bless you. God's going to use you for me. So it's it's it's more on encouragement and less on warning. So I mean I'm thinking like if if if we were to replicate what was happening in the Old Testament so that a direct similarity would be. I mean I think it's like let's say there's there's there's a really great chosen body of like a church of God. You know something like a mainstream church and all that but they and they've gone to a heights of success. And but some of the things in that you know they're mismanagement of that and and God would I would I would think like God would choose a prophet to talk to the leaders of that church and saying like.  But we don't we don't see that we don't see that but all the prophecies that we see happening is more about God's going to increase you more bless you more. So so has like so is say a is is is that a real change and is there like is it is it because what Christ did on the cross. Is it because of that that the nature of prophecy has changed from warning and judgments to blessing and prosperity is that and is there like a biblical. biblical you know reason or biblical scriptures to to kind of back up this need this this change of the nature of prophets. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you Sam. I see where you're coming from so I'm not saying that the nature of God has changed or the nature of prophecy has changed. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm really saying is that when it comes to the release of the prophetic word if there is a judgment required or a warning required that does happen. Okay. So it definitely does happen. Now looking at the context of the New Testament believer or the post New Testament believer as you rightly put you know we are in the era of grace. So it's not so much as your Old Testament prophecy you know the warnings and things like that because we can go to God we can ask for forgiveness and you know our sins are forgiven through the Lord Jesus Christ. And when it comes to the release of the prophetic word. I am talking more. Okay. Right now I was talking more in terms of the simple gift of prophecy as we saw in first Corinthians 14 and verse three. Exot edify comfort. So that is your simple gift of prophecy. However, we will we will study the progression of the prophetic so going from the simple gift to the prophetic ministry to the office of the prophet. Invariably it is something that is done at the level of the office of the prophet the warnings the judgments you know that there's more of that in the office as compared to a simple gift.  So that's how God tends to speak for whatever reason. And for us like we are going to be practicing more of the release of the gift isn't it.   See I'll tell you I still remember in the weekend school pastor gave this example. Somebody went and told a young man. This is a prophetic word okay praying over a young person you imagine how it will be. He's praying over that boy and saying this is that says the Lord in two months.  This is going to happen that is going to happen and at the end of that word that boy is shaking.  Now it has not built him up in any way. I think he came and told pastor I don't really exactly remember the word and the context. But yeah that's something that happened and then pastor said okay don't worry about it. You just keep it aside you begin to see God and you just continue to pray. He lived way beyond those two months and he did very fine and you know whether the prophetic word is accurate or not the fear that it brings into your heart might give you a sickness or might cause you to die. Now obviously things like that are not from God but unfortunately words like that are being given to people.  That's definitely not God you know so what I'm trying to say is when the warnings come and the judgments come. It's very obvious you know when a people have gone astray from God they are repelling and we'll also see when we talk about the releasing of the prophetic word we'll try to stay away from warnings and judgments. We leave it to the people in the prophetic office or the prophetic ministry. We may in our lifetime get a few words of judgment correction here and there but invariably you know it would be words of encouragement comfort. That you know you and I receive as a gift of prophecy so does it make things a little clearer Sam. A bit but I think yeah but my major question is around and one is like the I think generally the nature the format of the prophecies of warning and judgment is because you did this so even even for David it was like because of this sin. This is what's going to happen. You know so it's not directly like you're going to have an accident like for no reason but but like you know because you astrayed from God because you've done you allow this idol to come in or this sin to come amongst you because you entertain a person who is doing this. God's going to bring this. So that that was one but the other thing is like just that that that thing like God using prophets to bring out the hidden sins of especially his people we don't we don't get to see much of that. And I am thinking like if we did here then that that would also be like OK God is showing me the idols that I am like God is showing me my blind spots and I realize that and that is definitely an edification but but we don't get to see that so. Yeah yeah so that's also because we have the Holy Spirit who does the work of you know convicting us of righteousness sin and judgment. So a lot of that is going on within the believer already. I see that yeah that that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Okay yeah thank you. We have about two minutes and I see two hands raised so I hope you can quickly accommodate these questions. Ashik Kumar please go ahead. Thank you pastor pastor. As you said about the false prophets. I just want to know one thing that this is the is that the only parameter where we say that speak that you'll see the accuracy of the prophecy. So in that case that is the only case then when the when the Paul and the Silas was prophesied by that the that girl when you know she was possessed with the spirit of divination and she said. That these are the servants of God. So that prophecy was accurate actually there is nothing wrong in that that prophecy actually so if you if you take that to the accuracy is the only parameter to to find out that this is a false prophet or the true prophet. Then how can I able to know that you know. Because this this this person also speaks the right thing like no as I said about this Paul and Silas that girl spoke the right thing only they were the servants of God. And that she has not prophesied anything wrong. So so how can we you know come to a conclusion that this is a false prophecy or this is or this is a false prophet or this is the true prophet of God. Yeah, yes, Shikumar good question and Shikumar. If you remember earlier we have touched on this. We said that it's not just the accuracy but you know whether or not that word draws you closer to God. So if you could just go back to our notes here and look at it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so it's not just the accuracy of the word but it's also what that word does to our relationship with God. That's also very, very important. Okay, I say. Yeah, sure say what would you like to ask. Not so worry Mark. I think because of time already maybe next. Yes, maybe next class. Okay, fine. All right, so we have none of time, but I think all this is a good start. So we will look at the New Testament incidents and you know things about the prophetic in the next class and then keep moving forward from there. But I think we might move a little faster because we have to complete the prophetic as well as the apostolic. But yeah, it is going to be a good journey together. So let's close with a very quick word of prayer. I request someone to pray please and then we close. Say can you please pray? Our Father in Heaven we thank you Lord for this class we've just heard and we thank you for an instructor who you've used a lot to instruct us to teach us. We pray that for all that we are learning, Lord we pray that you will build us Lord in your word Lord to be used as verses to bring words that will build words that will defy words that will comfort as we prophesy into the lives of people. And that we pray that will be more attuned to the spirit Lord to be convicted of everything that Lord your speaking Lord through your prophets unto our lives that they are indeed from you. And we pray that as we continue Lord in this class Lord we pray that we will continue to grow more and more in the knowledge of what you have called us into in our lives Lord. Thank you Lord as we go for next class give us the grace and give us the wisdom Lord to understand all that will be taught in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you Sayyid. Thank you everyone. Have a blessed day and we'll meet again next week. God bless. Thank you Pastor. God bless you too. Thank you Pastor. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye.


Thank you Well, when I was asked to give the closing keynote I thought well closing keynote is always difficult thing because Everybody's been quite busy for several days. We've all had tons of technical talks, tons of discussions and the brain tends to be somewhat overloaded and Now I'm supposed to give you an idea of what's ahead and that is a Difficult endeavor. I did some research and discovered that we have an very old and unerode tradition in our industry, if you will Which are predictions. So I picked some out like this one 1957 I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people and I can assure you that data processing That won't last out the year There's another one There's no reason anyone would want a computer in their home 1977 well Given that these were smart people Making these predictions I Do feel a little better Now any one of my own and then seeing how this will work out in the end Let me begin by talking about what gave the main name to this keynote which is gklv3 it's almost there and Considering the fact that we heard so many things about how it was controversial. I Would like to take a moment to point out What we did not hear Which is the fact that most of the changes that are in there were in fact But for most of them there was no problem no big discussion When it comes to the controversial changes, I believe that we are seeing essentially two main areas one is software paints which is our Eternal at least it seems that way right now Menace I think Simon called it a zombie That keeps coming back here in Europe indeed That is how it feels and Since we don't know whether that zombie will succeed in Europe and we know that exists in the u.s We need to do something about it. So there is a controversy in software patents Although the main controversy does not so much seem to be in what people want to achieve But rather in how to actually achieve it The main controversy is not about what we want to do It's more about how exactly do you have to write it so it does do that and That turns out to be not so trivial But to be honest, I personally am fairly confident that All the people involved in gklv3 will be able to find a solution to that issue The second point Has been labeled digital restrictions management DRM Well, there is indeed a controversy here Although a part of that controversy I have found to be based on this information Because people come up, but why do you want to forbid DRM on I don't know music Well while we think that is a bad idea That is not what gklv3 is about In fact, the free software is defined By the four freedoms and one of them means unlimited use for any purpose So no matter how misled we might consider a certain purpose It would go against our principles To forbid usage For certain purposes. So this is not what gklv3 does It does not say you cannot build a DRM system for music with the software The clause in gklv3 is much more specific in a different area It's about DRM on the software, which is generally implemented in hardware Richard likes to call this a Tivoization After the device that is sold in the US Much less in Europe the Tivo Which is a piece of hardware that people think they buy and they put in their homes to record TV Programs from the net or from air, but they get the data over the net and in fact the Tivo Has software in there. It's based on the Linux kernel The Tivo has software in there that says I report back the viewing habits Of the people who own me or own me To the company Now if somebody doesn't want to get spied upon They could in theory take that software and modify it so it doesn't spy upon them anymore and Run that instead, but in fact that box does not allow this It checks which software is running and it will only run the software that the company authorized to run on the hardware So while you think you own the hardware, you actually don't because you do not have the freedom to choose What you want to run on that hardware? And this is something that Seems to be more and more common We see indications that more people will be doing this in the future And it goes against what we believe Should be done should be possible Should be allowed we think people should have the freedom if they buy a piece of hardware to run the software that they want to run We believe this is an important fundamental freedom to have and we think just a couple of years into the future When computers become more and more omnipresent and we will have computers everywhere around us Even more than we do today and we already have computers everywhere at least that's how it seems These computers control our lives often down to very intimate details of our lives Who should have the power to decide what these computers do I? Believe it is the people That are actually affected by the computers and that believe That they own the computers these people should be the ones to decide what is running and I was discussing this earlier with Jeremy You know ultimately in a country like the u.s. All it would take is Just one big virus suite that takes out part of the u.s. Economy for a while You know that creates one massive hit and The client would indeed be in a way that the u.s. Legislate that you can only have DRM hardware that every hardware that you sell must support this To you know ensure that there can be no more virus damage in Germany there is a discussion about Allowing the government to tap into every machine Having a trojan That installs itself on machines of people that might or might not have done criminal activity and Spies upon them without them noticing with that kind of climate We indeed face the possibility that such hardware Might be forced upon us that there might not be a choice anymore at some point Which means we need to prevent this now and that is what gplv3 is about this clause in gplv3 to prevent that kind of scenario and I know that this is not uncontroversial I know that some people in this community also Think differently about that issue But I personally believe that ultimately the reasons for having this protection Are as wise and as far-sighted as Some of the other costs that were in gplv2 when it was written and That were controversial then The status of the gplv3 right now is that we are having a slightly late That is in part certainly owed to the deal between Microsoft and Novell that all of you I guess I've been reading about I will not go into this in detail now What I also want to tell you is that the next draft might be the last It's not clear where that will be But it could be and if everything runs perfectly might be actually so Calculate in that this might be the last draft that's coming out So in case you have not yet looked at it. I Would urge you to take a look at this now Because if you want to comment The time is running out So you can participate at gplv3.fsf.org That is where you should go that is where you should look for the current drafts That's where you should make your comments And if you want to make comments make them now because the next draft might be the last one So now look let's look a little bit beyond What is actually you know the drafting process What will happen when gplv3 actually comes out? You know there will be a I mean no matter when it will be But there will be a point in time when there is a published license and this license is out there for use And as far as that's concerned I have heard many scenarios and theories and You know there were wild predictions about how you know the earth would shake and there would be rain or fire You know a lot of them I Don't know I have to say that there's always a problem. I love this quote, which is why I had to put it into this Keynote somewhere that in theory there is no difference between practicing three but in practice there is Which is a yogi bearer, and I love this quote so much that it's just The wisdom in this I think is quite apparent in fact what I believe What my feeling for this is is that? What we will have is ultimately an adoption that will happen rather constructively in Several ways I know there are people who would use the license immediately some people were even asking to use the drafts Which they shouldn't do because the draft is not a license So I know I know and many of us Talk to people who would use gplv3 immediately the moment it comes out And some people will the new project will do it for sure Some people won't some people will wait and see how this works If they see it works well, I believe they will They will use it as well, and I believe over several ways What we will see is an adoption of the gplv3 that is much less noisy than the process of drafting Because our community I Mean face it. We like to argue all of us have strong personalities and We are not exactly a dumb community in fact some of the most brilliant minds I know are part of this community and Brilliant people like to argue. So yes, we like to argue we do but This community is also rather pragmatic in various ways when the license is out there It works and it does what we care about people will use it and That's what I'm extremely sure about for companies What I believe will happen is they will analyze the license They will maybe wait a little moment Maybe do it immediately, but at some point they will analyze the license They will see that it is solid reasonable, and they will start using it in their own business interests I think that's exactly what's going to happen. So no, I don't think we're gonna have earthquakes and rain or fire But what I do believe will happen is that the debate on legal issues will shift a little bit It will probably not be so pronounced anymore, but it will shift more towards the structural Towards the question of legal maintainability when I talk About legal maintainability I talk essentially about three main points, which is a the ability to relicense So the ability to actually update a license is necessary I'm fairly certain that many of you will have heard the debate about whether or not one of the major Projects in this community can or cannot change this license. I Don't want to say anything about the fact whether or not that is possible But what I want you to take from this is the fact that it is at times necessary to be able to make that decision and Make it strongly and clearly and without question Also We need the ability to enforce our licenses We have some projects that have to do this incredibly successfully Hardbed of GPL violations would be somebody to mention this context The license is an expressed will of the people right in the software and it should be respected and In fact, we need to find ways to make it more respected the more it gets abused and with the value in for software and The unbelievable potential that is in the software that people in this room Right and others are on the world People are tempted to abuse that There's always somebody who is tempted to take Something from the community and not adhere to his rules and when that happens We should be able to make sure that they play by the rules When Simon Phipps says that they want to be taken filthy rich with free software fine That's not the problem as long as they play by the rules everything is fine and It's the same for everyone else, but we need them to respect the rules of the community which are defined by our licenses and Projects should maintain a clear legal status. It should be clear that there is no Copyright infringement no pain issues on that whole Because otherwise what we see our attacks of the kind of skull that Granted we were able to reflect it But I also think we can expect the next one to be a little smarter to have learned from the mistakes of the first one and Ultimately our only protection is to make sure that we are Solid against this from the start that means we need to pay a little bit of attention to this and That also means we need structures to take care of these issues and one of these structures Just one example because it's not the only one is the free task force of the free software foundation Europe, which is based around expert teams of law and technology Legal experts from around the world together with technological experts getting together to do this job It's run by a full-time coordinator Shane Papa. He's been giving a lightning talk yesterday about the free task force And it's main areas of activity a license education to make sure people understand the rules for our community fiduciary services helping To maintain a status where you know everything is clean. You can't realize if you have to and license enforcement That is what the freedom task force does Now I say actually this is enough about law It's Sunday Some of you may know that I Do martial arts and I've done it for many years and when you do martial arts you start to inherit a certain Tendency to also Look at the philosophical aspects of it This is a an image of Miyamoto Musashi Um Probably the most famous samurai of all time and cultural reference all of Japan until today He was allegedly the inventor of the two-sword fighting style and has written a book the book of the five rings Which until today remains an inspiration? for many people and You may ask yourself Why don't bring up this reference? Well, one of the things that Miyamoto Musashi taught Was that success comes from doing the right thing at the right time Doing too little or doing too much Or doing it too early or too late Can both be determined detrimental whereas you need to have the right amount of things to do at the right time And I believe we as a community are a critical moment It is the right time For us now Because Microsoft Vista is shipping and I'm sure that many of you will have read reviews about it in fact the net is flooded with it and I've had a look at some of them and Picked a quote from one if Vista's price especially for Europeans is its most eye-popping feature at second most eye-popping feature is the Aqua well, I ever desktop interface Indeed I looked nearly as good as KDE Although it demands about three times the system resources Think about this.  It would have been impossible. I think this is very significant and when I read this And in fact the whole article is worth reading.  It's a very very funny article But the most important thing here Is to understand What this means for us? Microsoft is unbelievably under pressure The Vista technology is weak I've not read a single article that said that anybody was not impressed It is incredibly expensive And it has gone way out of its way to cripple itself to suit the needs of the around Because of thought that if it did that The media industry the music industry would love it so much that it would make it its favorite platform and Use its power to push it Everywhere so they could control all the channels For that has crippled itself through DRM The irony here is that DRM is increasing yet popular if you read the statements Even from people in the music industry And I'm just thinking about the IMFV and the National Music Manager's Forum here for instance They say DRM is dead give it two years time It's out of the window. It doesn't work People hate it So they have spent years of time Crickling themselves for something That nobody wants And there's another thing this is another quote that dug out from 95. The antitrust thing will blow over Bill Gates That ain't quite so In fact The EC antitrust work that you have a fantastic time Because these two guys were incredibly important in Putting pressure on Microsoft In Europe in the antitrust case without the help from the Sanda team the technical expertise to explain How Microsoft deliberately obstructed interoperability Willfully just for the purpose of obstruction the work would not have been possible And they would not be so much That work is gaining momentum They're currently being fined and fined over and over again because For them the worst thing that could happen is That actually people were able to talk right because you see actually I've seen that also in your talk Jeremy and you're quite right The desktop is where it is decided desktop is where the power is the desktop drives all the stuff that is behind and Microsoft has been abusing that power Massively and that's why this is the right time This is the right time to bring free software to the desktop Microsoft has never been weaker They've never been weaker than today on that front. We now have the chance to actually win the desktop Because people need to migrate they need to upgrade at some point in time and And heck, you know while they're doing it why don't they upgrade to something nice like new Linux with KDE which looks better in this faster You know There's no reason why they shouldn't do that. There's one point You know we have to strategically work now To get that done and that's the right action. There's a global push for open standards and Last year it isn't a governance forum I was on a podium with Sue Struble from some micro systems, which is working a lot of the open standards issues for some And she said and I found this a lovely quote one person's rant reasonable and non-discriminatory licensing terms is another person's backup seat because these rant terms generally are quite discriminatory and normally quite expensive The situation we are in right now is that we have Various standard definitions. We have various definitions of what actually is an open standard Some of them by now are pretty good There's a particular one That is not so bad that is here in Europe from the European to offer ability frame That is not at all bad definition, but may not be perfect, but it's not bad at all In Denmark we have another definition. It's not so bad. It's quite good actually and we see a convergence and interest and Coalition by now to make that definition something along these lines It should be publicly documented and accessible So people can actually get to the specification It should be freely implementable There should be no strings to implement that open standard And it should be maintained by independent organization Not just by one company These are criteria That more or less are by now shared and accepted by large part of industry Except Microsoft essentially and I believe That this is indeed what we can make The definition of an open standard personally, I Would add one thing Which is a pretty soft reference implementation. That is something that I would really like to see enter into this because we have I might once more bring back the you better quote here. We have seen that in theory Open standards depend on certain things, but we've also seen that in practice It's not so easy to actually have an open standard that re-interprets In fact, you know, that's why you have plug-fests and Occasions where you try to interpret with each other to see where does it break If you have a free software reference implementation that process has helped a lot So I think this is indeed a worthwhile thing and in fact, Susie told me in a discussion that she wouldn't have a problem with that at all That from some perspective that it's not a problem. So we have an open standards convergence And that is quite central because you see open standards currently the door Into governmental news Every single government on this planet is currently saying they want open standards You can see it in the world some information society Declaration we want over standard you see in the internet governance for we want open standards You see it in various national publications. You see it on the European Commission level. Everybody says they want open standards and Because that is so We have seen the struggle There is a strategic Point behind this it is if you will a subvertive tap. It is an attempt to establish something in this case Open XML as sufficiently open standard To be acceptable To then make those criteria the ones that should be applied to everything else essentially subverted the open standard definition and that is why we've been working on that field pretty strongly because Once that happens, oh If that were to happen They could also bring in similar proprietary standards that only they can implement and also claim that they were open standards fulfilling What all the governments are crying for This really is the key training point at the moment. This is one of the critical Key issues and this can be our game. I mean free software is uniquely suited in many ways to operate Because we can change the software and And many people argued right we saw that with free software the lock-in can never be perfect because even if That project were to discontinue people could go and see how the code actually did this and Read the same format that is true There will never be a perfect lock-in with first off that is why this is an area where we have home field advantage The first off the foundation is working in various fora together with others I mean at the internet governance for real part of the dynamic coalition open standards and we help that push and that conversion upon a definition that Will work for us That will help us as the free software community but There's one thing But we as a community have to do which is we have to become a little more aware of open standards ourselves if there is an Open standard for whatever your projects do Support it because once you do That opens the door to massive adoption Adoption By governments once you take that step There's almost no argument left against your projects At that point becomes a pure economics game if there's money in it There are large companies that are willing to make money with this This can be our game and you see this is a moment in time. We would pick our quotes and In fact, I mean I have a feeling Bill Gates, but different reviews than me But this is one I found from two or three days ago given to Reuters I don't know what you mean. This does have incredible reception. The reviews have been fantastic This is a big big advance the Windows platform. It's the world's most used piece of software Overall the reliability feedback has been well better than we expected, you know, that's either serious denial of reality or It tells us something about their expectations for how well this is what you received Or this trying to establish a self-fulfilling prophecy and since Bill Gates ain't so done And we may think about what we want, but he's not that done. I believe it is the last Which is why I offer you a second quote here Sandwiched between Vista problems and trust issues in the global push forward standards Microsoft will increasingly lose the initiative Free software will start to cut into the desktop monopoly from which Microsoft has previously exerted force to conquer neighboring markets Eventually Microsoft will be forced from the mentally rethink its business model in favor of free software ultimately, I believe we are a turning point and Ultimately, I think we get to pick our quote with all the things that are going on and the growth of this community I think we are truly a turning point and we can choose Which way you want to go? So we can make that choice this year And I hope we will Thank you very much questions discussions Comments anybody All right, thank you the question was Ultimately, what can people do to support the work as a fee and the work against software patents? Well, I like that question obviously There's where various ways to support our work The first and most easy one to begin with is to join the fellowship in case if you do that in time You even have the chance to win some nice gadgets as a little reward So to do that go to www.fsfe.org and sign up and I hope that many of you will do that if you haven't done so already Secondly We always need people to help us With the work on these issues and help us and our allies as well There's many groups in particular software patents because that was the context in which you ask the question Is an issue where we've been working with a huge coalition and There's various groups that do that work the FFI I is very central in this so get in touch With whatever group you feel most comfortable with working with and work with them because ultimately You know fighting for freedom is fun, but it's also quite a bit of work and You know, we like to do this work. We do it gladly but We really need help because we have just a few people doing what we can against a very well-fund So our work Can make the difference and in fact if you want to get active for instance the software patent work We do here in Brussels Kiran, would you just please stand up for a second Kiran is FFI's representative here in Brussels And he's the guy you should talk to if you want to work with us on that Because he is our main person we hired him full-time to work for us in Brussels against software patents at the peak of the debate and So, you know the fellowship has funded actually his work So, you know by joining the fellowship you would already help, but if you want to do more there's always ways get involved Talk to us Approach us. We are always glad to have more people And I know the same is true for other organizations as well I just see the newly appointed EFF representative here in Europe Eric Who's been a strong force with software patent debate as well. We have various groups who work together on these issues Our strength comes from collaboration just like normal in the first half of the world So we don't do this work alone. We don't claim to do it. We do it as a Community of organizations ultimately of people who share these interests so please You know help us do this work because ultimately those of us who have understood the issues Have a responsibility to act upon them because a large part of society has not understood that these issues exist in the first place That means that for us who have understood the issues the responsibility is greater and We should not wait for others to do that work We should make sure that we do that work together. Do we have other questions? Please? all right essentially the questions about the fact that There are indeed strong parts of corruption in the process And in this case particularly the UK will present in the BBC with their very tight cooperation with Microsoft which is Yes indeed very tight Very cozy very Snub, but it gets increasingly harder to do these things without creating Public debate and if there is no public debate that happens automatically then we may have to create one You know public debates don't just arise you can actually bring them about and I believe in this case in particular It is a very easy debate for us to have Because it should not be the role of any government or any public broadcaster to mandate the use of any certain operating system in any way in particular if that operating system is the convicted monopolist I Mean in this case your convicted monopolist Track down their commission prosecuted by the European Commission and you want to force people to use their software That is a debate That indeed for us. It's relatively easy to win and the outcome of that debate and the position With which you can always win that debate even again the most die-hard conservative politicians is to say We don't want to force you to use as something else But we want is a system that everybody can use equally well, and then you always end up at the open-standard Issue again. Just say we want something that we can all do equally well We don't even need to force them to use free software because once they do everything equally well We are the situation where we can say look could use this or that You have the freedom of choice with open standards You can somebody say oh, you know we can replace that part of the system by another piece of software and Then seriously who in the right mind would choose anything but free software once they have understood the issues Open standards can help us to overcome the locking effect that is currently keeping quite a few people trapped and That is indeed what we should do I've seen another question that gets Hmm interesting Just to repeat the question it was about whether or not we can adopt a more proactive approach instead of a Reactive one as we've done with so many issues including for instance software patents and so on Yes, I actually completely agree with you and this is something that occurred to me a couple of years ago as well That we need to be more proactive on the issue. Although we've actually been working on open standards before open XML became an issue So this was something where we proactive because we understood that this was something where we could make a turning point but In fact, I know several others in the room have as well understood God has been working on open standards for a long long time So yes, I completely share your feeling about this issue and indeed I think Musashi will also tell us That always just defending always just be reacting to another attack is not Exactly wise Should we tell people about freedom and our vision for how that future should look? Yes, and we've been doing that We've been doing that for years in fact We've been doing it so much that some people told us, you know, why are you repeating that message so often? but Ultimately, we think the message still has not got far enough. I mean in this community, certainly Everybody has at some point heard what we had to say about free software and software freedom and how we think that future should look But I am realistic enough to understand that that is not true for everybody That there are people outside this room that have never heard this and I believe we need to get to those people We need to be able to explain it to them and we need to spread the knowledge to them And yes, I believe that this is one of the most important things that we can do which is why first off foundation Europe actually is one of its core activities and Identifying criteria has had the long-term creation of awareness of Bring knowledge outside this group that has this knowledge and making sure others understand it So yes, I believe that is what we should do. There's other activities For instance, like trying to get a better pattern legislation proactively They could work although they obviously have the danger that the other side can do exactly what we did and try to pull up that approach And we find ourselves basically in a very similar battle again But yes, all of these things can be done and some of them should be done Yes, please. I'm not sure I got the question entirely. Sorry, it's a little silent At the beginning of the talk you talked about the TV device, which doesn't permit all software to be installed on it How a free software or the GPL or another license restricts our device to act like that So you want to know how GPLv3 prevents that? Well, I mean, ultimately GPLv3 to my knowledge is the only license that plans to have something like this Although other license might possibly follow that example The way GPLv3 tries to do this ultimately is to say that you don't just have to give the freedoms on paper You know on the license but actually in reality Which means you have to give people what they need to make the software run If you create your device in a way that has those restrictions That it will only run certain software then for the people who get that device with GPLv3 software You will also have to give them whatever they need to make it run That is essentially how GPLv3 will try to address that issue Other licenses as far as I know don't do that It might give an idea if they actually start doing it. I think that might be useful Well, yeah, I mean obviously if you are still free to build whatever device you want and write a piece of proprietary software and stuff it in there I mean What oh, yeah, I mean GPLv2 doesn't protect against this kind of scheme really So you could still you know fork off all GPLv2 projects or write proprietary software or take other code But GPLv3 itself will no longer be able to do that. So I can you say louder? That's a really tricky question. What's the position of the central court for papers in Europe? I have to admit that that's a question that's currently beyond me because So many things will depend on how exactly it is done That in the end I mean the problem right now is if you have your key patent You can't validate in the same way that we get You have to squash it all the country's individual If a central court allowed us to squash that Centrally as we can get them said for you that'd be a good thing. The problem though is How would be implemented and who will control it I mean it all comes down not so much about how We have the structure whether or not the central one is fine or not the question is how exactly it works I mean even the European paint office might work if it stayed out of software to begin with and also if it had a Controlling instance that actually controlled it and could hold responsible, which it doesn't and that's the big problem So it's more structural issue of how you implement this I believe then whether or not that structure exists I think you have you have to talk ultimately about the details to really know what I'm pro or against I'd be for a method to get rid of patents quickly and effectively if they're in the area of software that is very good But if that method is so flawed that it doesn't work Then I'd be against it because we'd be worse off than before because it would seem like there's a way to get rid of them when there really is none And that really only make our position worse therefore The answer would be it depends Well, I am not loyal so take what I say with a certain amount of salt, but I Know that in several countries it is not possible to license under a license that does not yet exist So that you could not at the time when you have licensed Therefore That decision could probably be taken apart in some parts on this planet some of which would be in Europe So If you understood your argument correctly you were saying you did this because you wanted the web clause in there The web service stuff. Have you considered using the a fail or GPL? Okay, so you license under a fail or GPL saying that the automatic upgrade would be GPL Essentially But I think that is probably okay enough anyway because hopefully none of you will die immediately Which means that by the time when GPL B3 comes out You should be around to be able to actually say you like this license and we know license is officially under this license And that's what you should do once it is up until then it'd be under a fail or GPL which is Perfectly fine for that purpose. Therefore, I think should be fine Yes, this is a very common I know that you probably have an answer to this and I will just bring it to you just after short comment Yes, it's a very common practice everywhere on this planet, but Microsoft is Secretly using its market power to force vendors to not sell equipment without Microsoft license The big problem being that while they will tell you this in private If they trust you enough, they would never say so in public just like any other victim of blackmail is afraid of the public So it is very hard to do anything about this one of our the more Swiss team in fact Notified the Swiss and anti-trust authorities of this kind of bundling Because you in Switzerland you can't launch Investigations anonymously Which is quite nice And they will have to investigate So we ditched that ball in there and I believe if other people do the same thing And we keep pointing to that problem We will find some evidence at some point that they can actually use but it's very difficult There are however fortunately sometimes some people who resist that fight But they're very hard to find personally I would recommend to go with one of the three software companies that Pre installs Some of them are not able to get half where without that tax some of them sometimes find some proper without the tax One of them I know is x tops in Germany Don't know why is that who has always you know is always seeking machines that come without the tax So he can actually sell the pre-installed with no limits I don't know what the easy one exists here. I mean, do you have something on that? Had did you document how exactly you did it? This sounds like something we could put on the fellowship side actually in form of some interactive piece of Information where people can put their experience and how to do it in the different countries So if you email us what you've done, maybe we'll put it on the fellowship side And then other people can also put their stuff there that might be a good idea And then we'll find it under fsfe.org How to do that stuff so if you email me that stuff, we'll put it there and then everybody can find it your glass You Well, and the question was about gblv3 and the additional clause that you can't put in there And the question of whether that would create a similar problem as we see with creative comments around You know saying this and the creative commons licensing because that is also one of their different licenses First of all, I should say that I think it would be a mistake to compare creative commons and first off Because they're not the same thing. I also believe they have different goals Whereas for software is already a butterfly Creative commons is still a caterpillar because you know in free software we know What are the base freedoms? We know exactly these this is the bottom line of freedom that you cannot go below This is the minimum we must have Creative commons doesn't have that creative commons is like opening the door to a dialogue to find out How much freedom you need for which area so the two are very different stages of the discussion in their various areas the main criticism that Richard had about creative commons was that people said oh this is okay because it's creative commons license and some creative commons licenses are indeed Relatively non-free I mean from my personal perspective I would consider them a proprietary Now that will never be true for gplg3 because none of the things that you can add to gplg3 will turn into proprietary software license the things that you can add to it are crafted in a way That they define the space of potential Additional clauses But that space is clearly in the domain of free software and One of the ideas of why that was done is to make sure that you could have more license compatibility also Because you had the issues that the gplg2 was Involuntarily incompatible with some other licenses It was not something that people wanted but at the time of gplg2 was written those license simply did not exist so, you know, there was no way to be compatible with them because nobody knew what they were gonna look like and Understanding that people will still write licenses in the future. The decision was to go with a set of clauses and ways of making different decisions on different issues That are k for gplg3 Because that will allow to be compatible with the licenses in that area that is defined by those clauses Even if they are written in the future So instead of having an explicit compatibility list to say, you know, we'll be Compatible of xyz to say we are compatible with licenses in this area They are okay, and I personally think that was one of the Quite intelligent decisions in gplg3 and so far as it allows to increase compatibility But no matter what kind of clause you add All the ones that are allowed to add that are legal to that will still end up being a free software license But yes, I can see why you feel a little uneasy about the fact that it's no longer so easy to know What exact terms you're getting then and I know that some other people also have similar concerns We'll see how that plays out in the end I mean people are discussing this at the moment and in fact, I encourage you to put in your comments I mean if in case you haven't done so already submit them, you know It I think it's very valuable to also see, you know, how many people are concerned about this and How exactly would that problem exist tonight is how to work it out? So, you know if anyone else has that feeling please submit your comments So since that was the last question, I'm going to close this now but not without thanking the Fauston team and Everybody for this really nice event. I love Fauston. I've been here since 2002. I believe every year This one is the first one where the network actually worked the first day Thank you very much. Thank you


Well, I'm going to write a letter to my parents now. My dear mum and don't seem possible. We are out on the brine here writing to you. Well, dear, so far we are having a delightful trip. The weather is beautiful and the ship mad. We can't describe the table since it's like a floating town. I can tell you we do swank. We shall miss it on the trains as we go third on them. We would not imagine you were on a ship. There is hardly any motion. She is so large we have not felt sick. Yet we expect to get to Queenstown today. So thought I would drop this off with the mail. We had a foreign send-off from Southampton and Mrs. S and the boys with others saw us off. We will post again at New York and then when we get to Payette. Lots of love, don't worry about us.