At Collins Morgan we offer friendly, regulated and ethical advice for anyone living in Scotland. Over the last six years we have helped thousands of Scottish residents become debt free. Our organisation always have your best interests at heart and our advisors are trained to help you in any situation with a range of solutions always available. If you're struggling with debts, act now and call one of our friendly advisors on 0141 2184450. We're on. Today's guest we've got Sandra Leen. Sandra, you're a criminologist and you're here the day you've worked on the Luke Mitchell case for the last 16 years fighting for his freedom. How are you Sandra? Yeah, I'm well thank you. Thanks for giving us the time to come into your house and tell the story. I got, I got told about this case. It was actually last week with a man called Joe Steele who spent 18 years in prison himself. A crime he didn't commit were six murders occurred where six members of the royal family were murdered on a fire. So it was Joe actually mentioned Luke Mitchell and if I'm honest I know Luke as newspapers as monster, evil, stuff like that what I've portrayed. I don't know anything about the case. I actually dipped into it a wee bit and for the last week and you sent me some stuff yourself and there is a question mark for my opinion on the case. And I was just to see if you could shed some light on where it all began for you and why you get involved so much so deeply involved in it. Yeah. If we can go right back to the start, we'll start off with what's your relationship with the Mitchell family? At the time I didn't know them. I didn't know Jody's family, the victim's family. I had no connection with them whatsoever. The reason I got involved in any way, Jody was found behind the high school that my eldest daughter attended. My girls, I have two girls who were around about Jody's age and she was found behind that high school. So we lived locally obviously. The gossip from pretty much the first day was incredible. And I started to think, well, hang on. They've gone after this lad immediately. What if it wasn't him? What if it's actually somebody else? Are my girls safe? And that was what started the whole thing, was their safety. Because it's a very touchy subject, even me shining light on it because of the brutality of the crime. At 16 years, Luke has always protested these innocents. I know a few people in short prison. He doesn't double his door, he's not in protection. But what got it for me and why I wanted someone to come on and speak about it is he actually passed a lie detector in prison to say that he wasn't a murderer and his mum actually passed a lie detector also to say that Luke was actually in her house the night of the crime. And that she didn't dispose of any clothing or cover up anything. Obviously, lie detector tested, you can't use them in court. But for two people to pass, the odds are they're very high, millions to one. I don't know, three, million, four, I don't know what it is. I think it's important as well to realise that neither of them knew in advance what the questions were going to be. They didn't know until the day the guy turned up to do the test. And they were done, I think it was two months apart. So there wasn't even an opportunity for them to discuss potential answers because they had no idea what was going to be asked. Because people can pass tests, we get that. But for two people to pass, the odds are slim. So for me, that's when I started looking at it more. I started speaking to yourself. To dig something up that this is because it's not just affecting yourself, it's a look's mum, a look. You've still got to think about Jo De Jones's family who think they've got a conviction. But if I think personally that there's something not right, then I'm going to shed light on it. I'm going to have someone potentially who may be innocent to be rotting in a cell just protesting his freedom and the reason being is because Joe Steele was prime example. 18 years before he was a beast or a murderer. The guy fought for his innocence. So we'll go right back to the start. We've spoke about your relationship with the Mitchell family but obviously when you started getting deeper into the case, when you first started on it, what was the kind of tell-tale signs that things weren't quite right? Initially, the level of gossip in this area, some of the stories that were coming out supposedly about Luke's family and various bits and pieces, it started to become apparent. There were two things that started to become apparent. The first was that some of this information had to be coming from the police, information about the layout of the family home. Unless it was people who'd been in the family home, where else was that information coming from? And the other was that people were just running with this, the hysteria was incredible. Now, you've got to understand, this is a series of small areas, small communities, interlinked communities. Nothing like that happens here. Everybody says, oh, things like that never happened here. But really, the shock and the disbelief that it could have happened, especially where it happened, it's a little country path. Kids play down there, dog walkers, fishermen. And the whole place was just hysterical. But within that hysteria, it became apparent to me within a couple of weeks that this 14-year-old lad was in the frame. And it seemed like they were just hiding in the grit and that worried me. That really worried me, I thought. Either they caught him red-handed. You know, they've got all this evidence and they've caught him red-handed. There's something a bit strange going on here. How could they possibly know this early that it was definitely him? And that was what started to make me wonder about it. And then, like everybody in the area, I was talking to my friends about it and Luke's mum heard my taking it. I don't know how many people were actually questioning whether they'd gone after the right guy back then. Because it was a blanket belief the boyfriend did it. So she put a note through the door of the place of art, asking if he'd be willing to meet them. The press certainly didn't help because front page, monster, Evo 666, the music's kind of side of things. Nirvana, Slipknot, all the kind of music that people, just because it's music, it's obviously identified to be either crazy or the drink bludder.  That's what I remember. I think one of the interesting things about that is the Marilyn Manson connection and the Black Dalia and all of that. So Luke was, pardon me, obsessed with Manson and he's obsessed with the Black Dalia paintings and he carried out a copycat murder until you look at the evidence. He had one Marilyn Manson CD that was bought after Jodie was murdered because it had Jodie's favourite Manson track on it. That's why he bought it. It came with a bonus DVD, which again was used against him and there was a calendar that somebody had given him that was in the bin. That was his connection to Manson. There was nothing, no evidence ever that he knew anything about the Black Dalia pictures that he'd ever seen them, that he'd ever been able to access them. So this whole story about how he was obsessed with Manson and the Black Dalia and all of that, there's not a single bit of evidence to support it. Were people reading Black, white sticks, mud sticks? If you read that, eventually you're going to read that enough, you're going to believe it. And that's where we need a more accountable media because if people are going to write this rubbish and put it out there, knowing that people are going to believe it, I think it's worth remembering that one day, this could be a memory of their family, that this stuff's getting written about and that people are believing. It's been a bug way in mind, obviously, for all these years. Of course, how long was Luke seeing Jodie for? How long was the relationship going on for? I think they were just about three months. Still early? Sorry? Still early then, still a fresh relationship with their friends before or did they meet at school? They met at school, yeah. They knew of each other prior to that and then they were introduced through a mutual friend and by all accounts just really, really enjoyed each other's company, enjoyed being together. How was Luke's upbringing? How was his upbringing as a kid? He's pretty normal upbringing, his mum and dad split up when he was 10 but on amicable terms. He lived in the sort of leafy suburban area, the slightly posh area around here, went to the local high school, no issues in his childhood. There was a school report that he'd been pulled up for throwing a missile at another student and his mum was called into the school. It was a half-marish bar. But again, this was used after the event.  He's not suspended, no dodgy behaviour, no crazy stuff. No, he was doing well in all his classes, he's been the top portion of all his classes. So the evidence against Luke, we had a witness that said the scene looking Jodie on the path at that time, was she getting murdered? Right. This was supposedly an independent witness who was driving around a very sharp bend on the road and saw a girl standing at the entrance to the path and a guy, she reckoned about 10 to 20 yards in the path and it was just a tiny little lane. So she clocks these two people, driving around the sharp bend with two kids in the car and that was the story. She then gives this description that's nothing like Luke or Jodie, absolutely nothing like them. And then the story changes and we end up with an identification. There are a couple of problems with this and I don't, I am not suggesting in any way that the witness herself was dishonest or trying to mislead. Her brother-in-law, we found out later, was in Jodie's grandmother's house the morning after Jodie was found. So Jodie was found around about midnight on June 30th and on the morning of July 1st this lady's brother-in-law was in the granny's house telling her about this sighting, telling the family about this sighting and giving them a description. He was then three days later in Jodie's family's house talking about this description and everything else and he was there when this lady gave her first and second statements. So the idea, she was asked if she knew the Jones family and she said no. But they never followed up on the brother-in-law and the closeness of the relationship with the brother-in-law to the victim's family. So information was getting carried back and forward that can't not have influenced her recall. Similarly, when Luke's house was raided he was taken for the section 14 interview on the 14th of August, so six weeks after the murder. They took a Polaroid picture of him that morning and took it up to this lady and said, is that him? And the following morning pictures of Luke started appearing in the media. These were the first pictures of Luke in the media. Now you can see how closely the two events would reinforce in her mind. But she said she never saw the guy's face. Why were they allowed to release photos? Nothing to stop them. Nothing to stop them from age? Because there was no conviction yet? There was no active proceedings. Age is not actually or it wasn't unlawful to photograph under 16s at the time. Does that change now? I don't think so. I think it's more frowned upon. Because I read stories that they can't show their identity because they're younger. So, yeah, and those DNA found at the body five pieces of DNA, am I correct? There were five unidentified profiles either on the clothing, around the body or near the crime scene. So we had Jody's sister's boyfriends DNA profile from her sister's boyfriend found on the t-shirt that Jody was wearing. I'll come back to that. There was a condom found within 20 yards of the body. They never managed to trace the guy at the time who'd left the condom there. Various other deposits that some of which are still unidentified today. The sister's boyfriends DNA I'd never seen anything quite like this. They were waiting for the DNA results to come back to prove their main line of inquiry which of course at the time was that Luke was the killer. And then the DNA came back with nothing of Luke at the scene and nothing of Jody on Luke or in his house or anywhere else. So they're kind of stuck here because the DNA's actually come back identifying another male that's not Luke. And essentially they handed him an innocent explanation. They went back and they said, is it possible that Jody borrowed this t-shirt from her sister and that would explain how her sister's boyfriends DNA got on it? Now you would think under normal circumstances that would be the most bizarre thing to do. Normally some days DNA turns up at the scene of a murder. They've got some explaining to do.  But no, they came up with this borrowed t-shirt story to explain away the DNA on the t-shirt. So there was no DNA Luke's DNA there? No. Was Luke with Jody that day? He was with her in school up to lunchtime. But according to Jody's mum she got changed when she came in after school before she went back out again. Because obviously the papers have got a lot of weird stuff about Luke saying he had an appropriate relationship with his mum. They slept in the same bed, stuff like that. What was the story behind that? That was, again, these are the sort of things that were getting leaked either to the media or to the local community. So there was a story that the police had arrived and found Luke and Corrine sleeping in the same bedroom. Now this was just after the Sky interview which was a bit of a trick in itself. Sky had asked if they could interview Luke because he'd been asked to keep away from Jody's funeral by Jody's family. So Sky had asked if they could come and film the tribute that Luke and Corrine were having at home because he couldn't go to the funeral. Both Corrine and Luke have always maintained that they were promised that footage would not go out that day on the day of the funeral and Sky put it out on the day of the funeral. So Corrine has an arm, a protective arm, round Luke's shoulder. While he's being asked questions by a TV reporter that a police officer would have had to ask under caution and from this arm round the shoulder and this rumour about them sleeping in the same bedroom came the story that there was an inappropriate relationship between mother and son. Now just to keep things real, at the same time, exactly the same time that this story about finding them sleeping in the same bedroom broke and in actual fact they were sleeping in the living room on separate couches because Luke was heavily medicated. He was heavily sedated after Jodie's murder and his mum was frightened he would fall down the stairs which is why they just stayed on the ground floor. But at the same time Jodie's brother was sleeping in his mum's bedroom for very similar reasons. So if nightmares are going to come calling, kids are desperately upset, where are they going to go for comfort? Their mum. They're only 14 as well.  There was boys in a moped around that area at that time as well. That's again one of the most bizarre aspects of this case. On the Friday night, so four days after Jodie's body was found, the police put out an appeal for two youths in a moped. They came forward, one was spoken to on the Saturday, one on the Sunday and they were eliminated from the inquiry by the Monday morning. One of these boys was Jodie's cousin and the other was related slightly more distantly to Jodie's family. They had come through a local tool hair business and up the path on their moped and the moped was seen propped against the v-brake in the wall where Jodie was found behind the v-brake. Moped was there, they were nowhere to be seen at exactly the claimed time in the murder which was 5.15. One of them claimed that they hadn't come forward, they hadn't come forward to the police earlier because Jodie's gran told them not to. I've never seen anything in all these years that says the police went back and said this is what this guy's telling us, is it true? Because if they'd all said no, absolutely not, we said nothing of the sort, he would have been in the frame surely. They also lied about the time they were on the path, they said they were there, I think it was about an hour earlier, then they were actually there. So in advance they'd lied to remove themselves from the path at what later would become the exact time in the murder and these guys weren't suspects. They see people being lying, is that no contempt to a court? Do they not get jailed for that? Well no, they didn't lie in court, they lied to the police when they first came forward because they had to come forward because it had been all over the papers that they were looking for them, they lied then about the time. Now the witnesses in the two higher places, I think it was either five or seven witnesses in the two higher place, they all told the police it was closing time, so around about five o'clock. These lads, when they came forward, gave a time 45 minutes an hour earlier and walked out of the police station without that being checked. It was weeks before the police realised that they'd lied about the time and had to get them back in and speak to them again, but by then the entire investigation was focused on Luke. How long was it after Luke got a charge after the murder? How long? A few months? No, it was nine and a half months. Later to get a charge? Because I know Luke, the dog, was it the dog that found the body or was it Luke that found the body? The dog alerted, so what happened? Jodie's mum texted Luke. It was a text for Jodie, because Jodie's phone wasn't working right. Get yourself home now, that she grounded for a fortnight. So Luke phoned her mum and said, I haven't seen her all night, she never turned up early on. Bit of a tune I'm throwing, and Luke said, right, I'll come up for the new battle end, up the path that she would have used and if I don't find her, I'll come to the house and the adults can decide what happens next. He's left for the new battle end. What he didn't know was that three members of Jodie's family had left from Mayfield, which is where we are now. So the opposite end, making the way towards the path as well. They met Luke at the top of the path and then suggested a double check and they all went back down and the dog alerted just past this feed break in the wall. Luke went over, shouted, I think there's something here. The sister's boyfriend went over and then the granny insisted on being helped over as well so the three of them went over, found the body, all came back over the wall. Luke had already dialed 999 then the police called them back asking where they were. But there was a real misunderstanding there because the police seem to be of the opinion that Luke was the only person out searching. From that, they then drew the conclusion that Luke and Luke alone had found the body and that the three family members had arrived after Luke found the body which that's not what happened and it's really difficult to understand how they came to that conclusion in the first place. When they were called out for the missing person report, when Jodie was reported missing they left her mum's house on the impression that Jodie had left with Luke at tea time from her own house that Luke was the only one out searching and that Luke was coming up the path on his bike. While he was coming up the path with his dog he wasn't the only one out searching and he certainly did not leave Jodie's house with her at tea time but you can understand why the place he would be thinking, hang on he left her at tea time and now he's saying he hasn't seen her come on. And it doesn't look good that he has found the body either because if everybody's searching and the person who has a potential suspect finds the body then everything doesn't matter what kind of evidence you've got the kind that leads to how does he know and any questions marks start arising. You could turn that round though because I said about the sisters boyfriends DNA on the t-shirt. Luke had come up the path and checked it and it was the family search trio one of which was the sisters boyfriend that suggested to go back down. So equally the same it's one of the things about this case is that there are so many people that exactly the same arguments that are made to say it made Luke look bad could be used against other people. So what evidence was there then against Luke that got my conviction? What was the evidence? Well there's no DNA the eyewitness testimonies have been absolutely trashed there were three planks the his alibi they said his brother couldn't support his alibi his mum and his brother had covered up for him the eyewitnesses had positively identified him and I forgot what the third one was now What was his alibi? That he was at home cooking dinner and his brother was there as well? No his brother was working Luke made the dinner for his mum and his brother because he was first in from school a canny bag that alibi other than his mum and his brother to an extent yes because phone calls were made from and received on the landline and we can prove for certain where his mother was and it was not at home and we can prove for certain where his brother was and it was not at home so somebody had to be in the house making calls and receiving calls on that landline so somebody was both at work while he was making phone calls to them in the house yeah his brother called him to say he was going to be late home for his tea and Luke called his mum at work to say what did she want him to put on for dinner was there ever a suspect? not to my knowledge how many suspects were there? just one even with other DNA there there was four unidentified there was only ever one suspect one of the other DNA profiles was identified three years later 2006 the guy's DNA was run through the database for another matter and his story was that he went down the path that night forgive me, he went down the path that night to masturbate because he didn't have any privacy because he shared his room with his brother so he went down gave an estimate of the distance he went down behind the wall did what he did, discarded the condom came back up again and that was the end of it if that account was correct he reckoned it was between 8 and 9 o'clock at night and bearing in mind the time of death was claimed to be 5.15 if that was correct it was broad daylight till about half past 10 that night he would have had to virtually step over the body on the way down and on the way back but because it was three years later there was nothing done about it because the case was closed because Luke Mitchell had been convicted and what's quite terrifying is excuse me this guy lived in a row of houses that look out onto the path and the police search parameters like door-to-door parameters stopped one door away from where this guy lived but they were in his house for a completely different matter two of his brothers had found a hoodie and got it to the attention of police and they still didn't ask about other males in the house or where they've been on it nothing, it just for somebody to do the crime as well and not leave any DNA they're obviously they're quite clued up so for somebody to not have any DNA doing a murder but then have a fucking condom do you know what I mean to do that it would kind of no make sense for me even if they would have no DNA on the body and then we'll basically play with yourself and masturbate into a condom well that's the thing you see we don't know if any of the other was there any Jody's DNA around on the condom or anything they messed up the swabbing on the outer condom so they couldn't get results for that a number of the DNA profiles on the body and the clothing were only partial profiles so they couldn't get full matches to them so it's at least a possibility that there is other DNA there that would match to other people but because the police contaminated the crime scene terribly really really badly a lot of the potential DNA if you like was contaminated but in terms of DNA that could be attributed to Luke because the number of markers that they did get none of these samples they either had DNA that was not in Luke's profile or they had DNA that was common to I don't know 50% of males so could have been in any about any males profile so the lie detector in the prison how did that come about because look I know he's sitting with his eyes closed doing the full because people think he's got his eyes closed he's concentrating if you do a murder and you believe it that long you convince yourself that you've actually not done it how did the lie detector become about and why did the prison let that happen because there's footage on YouTube but we'll put it at the end of this podcast of Luke actually getting the lie detector how did that become about because I've never seen that before we talked about it for a long time Luke had always wanted to do a lie detector so had Corrine and they were just always told it's not admissible as evidence and they didn't really want to do it for evidence they knew it was never going to get in as evidence they wanted to show that they were telling the truth so it took about a year going back and forward with the prison to get agreement that we could do it so the guy called Terry Mullins came up from London and we were allowed into the prison and then we were taken through to basically just a goldfish bowl glass sided and when we got in there Terry got all the stuff set up and there were prison officers walking past outside everybody obviously was dead curious and people pulling faces just trying to put them off really so it was Terry that said to him just shut your eyes just ignore them because I don't want you getting distracted by what's going on outside and that's why I closed his eyes and what was the questions that got asked Luke was asked did he know for certain where Jody's body would be found or where Jody's body was did he stab Jody or harm Jody in any way and forgot what the third question was so the first one to know the body was he says no and that was correct and did they stab or he says no and that was correct and the other one was about Harmina as well what about for the questions for Kareem Kareem was asked if she had ever disposed of any clothing or any other evidence belonging to Luke she was asked if she lied to cover up for him and again I forgot what the third one was I think it was in the house at the time where it was at the time and she passed all three questions because it's brought a lot of misery there's one family devastated they will die with that pain and we spoke about that earlier it's they're going to have to live with that but again for Corrine she's had her caravans burnt down she's she's had a break through the back one screen of her car she's people who have mentally and physically thought so that it's she's been fighting for her son's freedom for 16 years and it's only really yourself and her it's been trying to get she had some light on this and trying to get a retrial because Luke's been trying to get a retrial for and that's the main thing here if the authorities have got nothing to hide if they're absolutely convinced Luke Mitchell's Jodie's murderer let's just see all the evidence we Hillsborough they're an independent panel who were allowed to go in and just look at everything and review it let's see that if the evidence is there so why they're not they kept knocking it back to retry the case and do you think they've made a mistake or do you think because if they know if that comes out that he's innocent that's just going to cause a shit storm for the police the everybody again I'm not professional I'm just here to shed some light on it there's a possibility he could be innocent there's a possibility when two people pass a lie detector but again I'm not professional in this field I'm just here to shed light on it but when you're looking you actually look into it to see there was no DNA there was passing two lie detectors and he's always protested he's innocent he hasn't locked himself away and put himself in protection he's took it in a chin and he's got some amount of abuse in prison and if people think that's a crime then you would act like that if you think someone's murdered a 14 year old kid because that crime alone I've got kids you've got kids yeah and that's one of the things I've been saying for 16 years I don't do any of this to I know there's no avoiding causing more pain for Jodie's family by bringing this up I know that but that's not why I do it I'm always very very mindful as a mum of girls how have you been treated because it's a small area it's a small area everybody talks how have you been treated by working on this case and trying to bring it to light and trying to get look Mitchell free how have you been treated initially it was not great I've been spat on I've been pushed off the pavement in front of the cars I've had death threats the police themselves would stop me in the car at every opportunity they got I never used public transport around about here I'd have to check the headlines to see if it was safe to go into the local shop that that was the extent of the feeling up here and I totally understand it I understand they think or back then they thought I was supporting a monster but my question has always been why would they think I would do that teenage girls in this area if there was the tiniest doubt in my mind that it was Luke Mitchell who did Jody what was done to her why on earth would I be sitting we need this guy back in our community he needs to be set free that would be insanity when was the last time you spoke to Luke about what 2014 and how is he still trying to get a new date in your retrial because I believe he said he's not going to leave prison unless he's a free man he will protest these innocence to the end he will never say did it just to get out or just to get better treatment never if they offer them that yet to admit the crime to let them go they push every year for it don't they every review you you're not addressed your offending behaviour because I've got no offending behaviour to address and round it goes was that did you think there was any other suspects that could potentially have done the crime how many names no names but how many people allegedly that you could think there were certainly three three that I would have said had I been a police officer which I'm not looking at the case and I said we need to look at him we definitely need to look at him and we better get him and see where he was and what he was doing and where he's been since that would have been those three in particular do you ever question yourself and think what if you're wrong and think why the fuck am I going through this every day why am I putting myself through this tournament I don't think you can do this work if you don't ask that question every day what if I'm wrong what what if I've missed something you know what if I don't know what if there's something that they know about that we don't that's why I'm saying if we go for a review and everyone's on the table then everybody knows for sure me included because it's I've gone through everything that's been available to the defence I've also spoken to people who were never spoken to by the defence, by the prosecution back at the time or people who were bullied and harassed at the time who are adults now who have contacted me and said listen I want to tell you this is how we were treated to get us to say what they wanted us to say so in terms of the overview of the incidents and the circumstances and everything else yeah for what we've been allowed access to I would say there's no doubt that Luke did not do this but there's always going to be at the back of your mind what if they've got this they would have used it clearly there's always going to be anything you're doing life but you received files with information on it I got all the case files and that was really when the whole thing for me started to come down like a house of cards there was so much in there the stocky man now this guy was seen following Jody the night she went, the night she was murdered around a bit five o'clock and there were two independent witnesses to stocky man he was never traced, apparently and he was kind of just dropped quietly from the investigation because obviously he couldn't have been Luke so they just didn't go after him 2014 11 years after the murder we find out he was identified at the time was it questioned? no no, after the identification it was just filed so why would do not follow up this evidence in these suspects was a case of before it was Luke they had enough evidence to say that there was eyewitnesses there and there was witnesses to say that they'd seen them at that time that they didn't even think about anybody else or is it a case of somebody covering something up as a miscarriage of justice where they never found a charge never got a charge for nearly a year they had to get somebody there was a lot of pressure on them personally in your opinion would you think the whole outcome is in this? well to put it bluntly they screwed up from the off literally from the minute Jodie was reported missing it was one blunder after another after another they contaminated the crime scene they let the others how did they contaminate the crime scene? they just climbed over the wall and traped around it and gathered up clothes would that not though if Luke had evidence that could have maybe trampled his evidence as well it could have done but it had been interesting that it managed to lose Luke's evidence but leave other peoples there they they gathered up Jodie's clothes before the forensics people got there they rolled the body onto a plastic sheet before the forensics people got there they cut down overhanging branches so that the videographer could get a better look before forensics got there that's just from the beginning that was the B point which I thought would have been closed off of significance they let the remainder the other three members of the search party go and mingle with other members of the family they took their phones with them they didn't get their phones they didn't take statements from them they didn't get their clothes for forensic testing it was just a shambles from the off and I think the problem there was they realised what a shambles it was they also realised there was no going back and undoing that how could they fix the mess they'd made in the first six hours or so what's the story about the parker jacket oh it's a kind of weird one the claim was that Corrine burned a parker jacket that Luke had been wearing when he committed the murder in a log burner in a back garden so presumably to destroy evidence Corrine's and Luke's take on it is that Luke didn't have a parker jacket prior to the murder the police took all of his clothes on the 4th of July everything apart from what he was standing on on the 4th of July in the first raid so Corrine took him clothes shopping on the wednesday because they had nothing to wear and the parker jacket was bought that day and she handed the receipt to the police because they asked for them so this whole thing about they were looking for a missing parker jacket but Corrine had bought the parker jacket as a replacement for the missing parker jacket which again if you knew your son had murdered somebody in a parker jacket would you stick them back in a parker jacket anyway they came and they took all the ash from the log burner in the back garden which was a wee thing that size took all the ash from it forensically tested all the bricks and everything nothing no evidence of any clothing burnt there no opportunity for her to dispose of ash because the family liaison officer was there from day one to day two the ash had she burned clothing there and then all this nonsense about people seeing look or being claimed to have seen look in a parker jacket used as witness statements that photograph that I was talking about the day after he was taken in on the 14th of august six weeks after the murder the first photograph to appear in the papers and there were dozens of them after that always in the parker jacket so if you ask anybody in this area have you ever seen Luke mention on the parker jacket yeah most of Scotland had the question would be what reason would you have to remember if you knew him, obviously we didn't know so it would have to be afterwards what reason would you have had to remember if you had a parker jacket prior to that and the giveaway on that is the got a witness who did know Luke and brought him in to give evidence against Luke and he said he saw him in a local shop wearing said parker jacket and he was asked what made him notice it was a parker jacket and the guy said oh well it was the murder and everything yes it must have been after the murder then that's the level of what they were calling evidence they were relying on against Luke the whole case was that many witnesses went up to speak against them how many witnesses they have on his side none had any witnesses, no his mum and his brother well his mum and his brother were charged with preventing the course of justice and those charges were only dropped when they were on the sand so they wouldn't allow there were a number of witnesses that the defence wanted to call they were disallowed for one reason or another I can't remember what the expert oh the expert on recall speaking in particular about the lady who very clearly would it be an influence with stories going back and forward with such close proximity to the fact they wouldn't allow him to give evidence because he hadn't examined the lady in question so the fact that we know psychologists know that the impact on recall of additional information that wasn't enough so that was disallowed so see the first nine months before he got his sentence, he got charged were you around then, or was it after when he went to prison no I was involved from September 2003, so 10 weeks after the murder and that's when you got involved how was Luke's mindset then after the murder at all absolutely convinced they would realise they were going after the wrong guy get the act together and actually go and find the person that did this absolutely convinced was there a co-operate with the police and statements and giving everything to keep obviously giving these statements and give them information that they can the whole family were the whole family were the liaison officer was in the house from the 1st of July to the 13th of August because the 2nd raid was the 14th and there's a bit of the interview in the 14th where Luke and his mum are saying to the police officer why didn't Michelle tell us this was going to happen we thought that's what she was there to do we thought she was there to keep us up to date with developments so right up to that point the trust in this liaison officer is there to guide them and help them when in actual fact all she was doing was trying to gather again I'm reluctant to call it evidence she was looking for pieces of information that could be twisted to make the family look weird or yeah did Luke go back to school or anything I know he was banned from he did actually go back for one day initially he was banned from returning to school and of course we did the big media fanfare about it being for safety initially for the safety of the pupils and then realising what they'd done because he hadn't been charged with anything oh for everybody's safety speaking to everybody about appropriate behaviour all this nonsense they let him go back and Corrine got a call from Luke to say he was being kept isolated in the classroom by himself wasn't being taught with the other kids wasn't being allowed to mix with the other kids was basically just being kept in a room in his own so as she went to come out of school there was clearly words and after that he was tutored privately because he couldn't they wouldn't have him back in school it's a weird it's it's a weird situation because it's the the strike detectors think it kind of gets me in like a no DNA was that for the murder we hadn't found no what do you so what's the plan what's the outcome for you now to to get this case are you going to keep working on this case until do you try and get look a retry to get them free as a time you feel like giving up many many have been the times that I've felt like giving up the reason I put the book out is forced to give up so if anything happened to me I don't think that anybody else in Scotland got the level of knowledge of the case that I've got and the idea was put everything I know in there and then if anybody else wants to come along and take over the information's there because my dad died suddenly at 56 and I'm 55 you know if I go and take this with me you want to get all because I know when you got the case files there was a lot of stuff that never got put forward there was a lot of witnesses that never got spoken to what else were any of the case files that you think were, they didn't sit right why was that not used in court why was this covered up oh there was so much stuff well for example the boys in the moped saying that the granny told them I've got the police the thing about the eye witness and the brother-in-law the change in the family stories, Jody's family stories so the three members of the search trail on the path all said for a month in all their statements for a full month that the dog reacted at the wall and looped double back and went through the v-break the sisters boy friend said as an example it's a big dog, it's an Alsatian when it was standing up against the v his head was higher than the bottom of the v so that's quite a quite a vivid description by the time they got to trial the statements started to change after the first month and by the time they got to trial the dog didn't react at all looped just, was walking down the path and poked himself over the wall so then we get the case paper and there's all these statements where the family are saying the dog started going nuts and went over and then they said that he didn't react he showed no emotion and yet in the statements Jody's sister saying I could tell by the panic in his voice that it was something bad his eyes were wider than normal he looked like he was in total shock it's all in there in a retrial could those all statements get used is it a touch of subject? it's difficult because I didn't know when I started this the concept of statements being adopted so unless you agree when you're giving your evidence that what's in the statements correct the statement can be because you can't change your statement at least maybe you're in shock you didn't know what to say people do when can it not be changed, a statement I don't think there's ever a time that a statement can be changed the difficulty is if you've said something in a statement and it's put to you on the stand did you say this and you say oh that's not what I meant and you refuse to accept it so the first statement you can use in court so those statements that you talk about when they were interviewing the witnesses they were never used the first statements no the defence did try to did try to bring them up and say but you said for the first month you were telling the same story as he is do you think they were just wanting then a conviction obviously Jody Jones's family want a conviction but then the police do you think that people were getting they started in their own mind that Luke was because the police were after him for the get go his name was it was fired about from as soon as it happened yes so again people looking at that case are going to find automatically he's guilty so how do we how do you go further from this now how do you what's the plans for you now in Luke's case because if he's to get a retrial you're talking maybe another 3-4 years and has he got a release date yet has he got no he got a minimum 20 years but he won't be eligible for parole because he won't address the offending behaviour he won't participate in any of the training courses or anything because he didn't do it and from my experience of other cases that being the case he won't progress so the 20 year date will come and go and however many years after that will come and go as well if he's going to get anger management and get where he's a high risk to and work on yourself but if he's adamant that it wasn't him then he could have been there for a long time until this eventually gets a retrial how can people buy your book how can people get hold of your book it's on Amazon it's innocence betrayed innocence betrayed and it's available on Amazon and it really does I think the discovery that what's allowed to pass is justice and what's allowed to pass is evidence and what's allowed to pass is fairness in our courts is so poor I'd never have believed it I would never have believed that they can get away with the sort of things they get away with until I saw my own eyes and I'm not asking anybody to take my word for it I'm not just having an open mind the information is there go have a look see how you feel about what you've been told by the media for all these years compared to what they actually knew not necessarily the media but what the authorities actually knew the information they actually had because it's one of these things that kind of makes me laugh people go ah you're only telling one side of the story yeah and what do you think mainstream media has been doing for the last 16 years I always believe there's three sides to our story and I say that there's always both sides so for me personally it's to have an open opinion every situation the reason why is because again Joe Steele 18 years he done 18 years the man and he was innocent and everybody not his family and stuff but if you read the papers then what you read the papers monsters ice cream wars then it's just you're in your mind that he's guilty so it's to keep an open mind and think wait a minute there's a possibility everybody let's face it everybody in prison says they're guilty either innocent but Joe says in my podcast as well if you're really innocent you don't give up some people get their sentences like free fall you're down the line they've kind of adapted they've accepted they don't want to fight no more if you're innocent you don't want to stop them looks one of those boys who don't want to stop them he wants to keep fighting for his innocent again I don't know they feel just to the case but to shed some light on it maybe have an open mind people have an open opinion maybe change their opinion and other people can look at it and maybe get a retrial but again it's going to dig up a lot of because there's never going to be closure for the Jones family I understand and for me to do this is I'm going to get a lot of backlash but for me to be honest with myself and if somebody's there's a possibility somebody's innocent fuck it I'm a man I'm not a coward try a way I'm going to bring it to light and maybe there is a miscarriage just as there and there is a lack of evidence maybe people's tampered with evidence maybe the try I just don't for me it's just to bring it to the surface yeah and that's that really is for nearly 16 years that's all I've been asking is instead of going with this screeching media coverage have a look have a look at what else is there and ask yourself why did you never know that why have I never heard that in 16 years because if I was making it up I'm sure I'd have been sued by now Has nobody ever done that want to do an interview with you Sandra or to tell your story and get it out there mainstream media daily record son the evening news way back in 2007 did an interview that was when I'd written the first book there have been there have been approaches and they've all dropped out at the last minute and I don't know if that's just because they don't want this case getting dug up again they don't there's too much behind the scenes that they don't want coming out now and it's easier just to ignore it it's easier just to make it go away than to risk having somebody like me saying go have a look if you keep chatting the door loud enough then eventually it will open Sandra if you're coming on is there anything you want to finish by is there anything you say before we finish up here that people can look into no I think just like you said have an open mind go back look at what you were fed over all those years and go back and ask yourself what if that was me what if they were saying all that stuff about me or about my son or about my brother or whatever what would you do how would you stop them how do you deal with that because the truth is it could happen to anybody before we finish up what was the one was like told not to cry when I got convicted he was told to show no emotion who says that he's legal team why I think the judges say ahead of verdicts and big cases like that no one's seeing the behaviour everybody's to be quiet but he said himself for years he was damned if he did if he cried it would be in crocodile tears people are going to judge people already had their opinion including myself I had my opinion and I was on that young boy but I do remember the headlines and stuff and I still remember it to this day but again it's to have an open mind that there is always possibilities that people are innocent but there's also possibilities that they could also be guilty so for coming on the day Sandra and telling your story I wish you all the best for the future thanks a lot thank you please make sure you subscribe to my youtube channel and also click the notifications button so you are notified for when my next video goes on my channel you can also catch me on twitter at jamesenglish0 or instagram at jamesenglish2 or facebook at jamesenglish11 you can also download these podcasts on podbean or iTunes I just want to say thank you to my sponsors fire suppression scotland and select blinds for also sponsoring this episode for all your fire safety requirements fire alarms fire extinguishers fire risk assessment fire doors and also cctv fire suppression have your safety as their main priority for enquiries you can contact them on 01698 200 562 or email on infoat fire suppression scotland.org at select blinds if you want to find something unique then select blinds as a place for you they take pride in their ability to manufacture blinds to order using a range of materials and fabrics they can take your needs specifications and instructions to use them to create blinds of any colour 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Got him. Wow. Got active there. That's a good one. Another big one. Wow, that's a big old slab right there.


Can you tell us about the industry's relationship to the Aboriginal community and how that's changed over time? Well, as you know, the Canadian MENDELs industry is the largest employer of Aboriginal people in Canada and we have more activities in close proximity to Aboriginal communities. In fact, TAC was the leader in its relationship with respect to the communities in and around the red dog line and the nano-organization, so I mean, TAC, I think, has shown that it's always been very respectful in taking a leadership in that, of course, was in particularly Kaminko initially prior to the merger. You also have the situation, and you can look to Sudbury and Highland Valley, where the Aboriginal community has not necessarily historically been incorporated and engaged in the operations as much as would happen now, but those things are changing. I know for a fact that the TAC has reaching out around all its coal operations and Highland Valley in particular to the Indigenous community at Hemlo. We worked with Pick River and the Pick Moberg First Nations, looking at ensuring that there are benefits flowing to the community and negotiating participation agreements. So it's really, really changed. And with the change in the regulatory framework, the UN declaration on the rights of Indigenous people, the focus on free prior and informed consent, companies realize now that until you have the support and the willingness of the community to welcome you onto their land and to develop the resources and partnership, it's not going to happen. And I would say TAC was a leader in this, particularly because of their experience at Red Dog in the early, early days before this topic even was on the minds of many.


This 10th year of Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners. Thanks to you, Larry Bailey, Michelle Serju, Kirk Stephenson, or David Garver, not or, and, and you, right there, listening. Who's like, what about me? Yeah, I mean you too. On this episode of DTNS, AI makes weather forecasts better, and Microsoft is making its own AI chips. That and more from Microsoft Ignite. This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, November 15th, 2023 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Original Trisket, I'm Sarah Lane. From Salt Lake City, I'm Scott Johnson. And from Slightly Showery Skies, I'm the show's producer, Roger Chen. What are the other Trisket flavors besides original? Oh, Tom. Yeah, there's a sea salt. Are you not aware? You got sea salt, you've got an herb. Tomato and basil. Herb? I have another herb. An herb blend. Sun-dried tomato. Yeah. Sun-dried tomato. There's another one that I forget. Sour cream. I'm just, I'm just gonna, sour cream, although sour cream and Trisket's not the worst idea I've done it before. Chipotle. I'm just gonna go ahead and say, oh no, Chipotle Trisket. Bridge too far. All right. When are we getting the nacho cheese Trisket? Find out in Good Day Internet. But for now, let's start with the quick hits. OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman, posted on X that the company is pausing new paid subscriptions for chat GPT+. Altman said, since its dev day event, so many people signed up that OpenAI had exceeded capacity. Now, you can sign up to be notified when subscriptions will reopen. OpenAI services had several outages last week due to a combination of high demand and denial of service attacks. Intel pushed microcode Tuesday to fix a high severity bug described as a redundant prefix issue and known as Reptar, R-E-P-T-A-R. The flaw resulted in unpredictable system performance, including hangs, crashes, and nefariously, in some cases, the possibility of privilege escalation. So that was the big concern. And particularly of concern to cloud providers is that it could crash your hypervisors upon which they rely to provide machines in the cloud for clients. Virtually all modern Intel chips are affected. This is pretty wide ranging, so it's a good thing they found it before the bad guys did. Alder Lake, Raptor Lake, and Sapphire Rapids chips received updated microcode before November and have not experienced any detectable performance issues. So they kind of wanted to try it out. Now that they have, microcode has been issued for all affected micro processors and pretty much assume if you've got a modern Intel chip, it's affected. Users are advised to update your BIOS, your OS, and your drivers. META wants adults, specifically parents and guardians to be required to approve an app before someone under the age of 18 downloads it and is calling for national US legislation to enforce it the same way throughout the country. Now right now, states all have differing and sometimes conflicting laws based on this exact thing. The idea is that parents would verify their teens age when they set up a phone, could be younger than a teen, but this is often targeted at teens, so that all downloads after that point assume the teens age is correct. Everyone has said the truth and we go forward. Now META says currently parents need to navigate a variety of sign up methods and provide potentially sensitive identification information for themselves and their teens to apps with inconsistent security and privacy practices. This would be sort of a one sweep situation, you know, if meta has its way. Yeah, because I see weird dummy in the chat saying look META you could just do it yourself and that was my thought when I first saw this. They're not asking for there to be a law to make them do it. They're saying we just need one. We just need one set of rules because sometimes the rules conflict, depending on which state we're operating in so I actually think in this case that's kind of reasonable. Also, thank you Clinton for listing all the flavors of Triscuits in our YouTube chat. Google introduced a version of its Titan physical security key that works with past keys. So you can get it with either USBC or USBA on the end. Both of them have NFC if just want to tap the keys work as 502 multi factor keys normally do, but they also have the ability to store up to 250 past keys. Models are available in the Google Store right now. It's 30 bucks for the USBA version and $35 for the USBC. Google announced new features for its maps service so you can now filter navigation options by length of trip time spent walking your estimated time over rival number of transfers and even type of transit navigation to train stations will now include which side of the street is the best entrance to reach the platform going in the direction you need to go. Oh boy for people who do a lot of subway travel. This makes a lot of sense. You can also now share lists with other users and vote on them with hearts or thumbs down if I don't know. You don't like a list I suppose you can also respond to reviews on Google Maps with emojis and create your own emojis with a generative model so Google Maps growing up. My next feature request is which entrance has the escalator. What you don't want to lug your your luggage up the stairs. I mean it depends depends on the day right. Yeah. This just in Clinton didn't list all of the flavors of triskets on his own he asked chat GPT so it may not be correct. Oh man the robots we need them don't we. We don't know if they work or not though. Well we have lots of announcements robots are part of this in some form at Microsoft Ignite so let's go over some of the significant notes. Bing chat has been renamed Microsoft Copilot and will remain free. It will also still be available in Bing as well as on Windows 11 and add a new URL. You can just go to copilot.microsoft.com have to sign in with your Microsoft account but then you can use it right there. I don't know that it works in all the browsers. I couldn't get it to work in Firefox. They say specifically it works in Chrome and Edge. There was already a paid version of Microsoft Copilot for Microsoft 365 and in classic Microsoft fashion that one is now renamed Copilot for Microsoft 365. Alright everybody keep your bingo cards open because there's a lot more to come. Copilot Studio is a no code tool so you can customize the aforementioned paid Copilot for Microsoft 365 as well as integrate custom chat GPT chatbots. Microsoft Jared Spitaro said you can use natural language to describe what you want and Copilot Studio will help you build and iterate the conversation design. Anything from a webpage to quarterly reports. Windows AI Studio lets you access tools and models from multiple services not just Azure but also like Hugging Face. You can fine tune small language models. You hear all about large language models. You don't often hear about the small language models. Those can run locally and if you want to do large language models. NVIDIA is cooperating with Microsoft and updated Tensor RT LLM to run on the GeForce RTX 30 and 40 series GPUs. You just need 8GB of RAM and of course running Windows. I like that note cooperating with Microsoft. We're going to find out why NVIDIA might not like Microsoft in like 5 stories from now. Hold that thought everyone. Yeah hold it because we got more. Azure AI speech text to speech avatar lets you upload an image of a person to be created into an avatar then you can make them talk. So let's say I say I want Scott Johnson to be my avatar that would be the tool that I would use. Now the speech generator can also be trained on the person's voice if you so wish. It's in the public preview and most customers won't be able to do that particular customization at this time although they can use pre provided avatars and voices you know celebrities and that sort of thing. Customization is also limited to certain use cases. Then there is personal voice which uses one minute of speech to synthesize a voice which can then be used for dubbing, translation, narration, a variety of things. Users must give explicit consent in the form of a recorded statement before that voice can be used for training however. And customers have to agree not to use the voice for user generated or open-ended content. How quickly do you think somebody makes the voice get approved and then does it again? I mean like immediately I have so many questions about that but anyway go ahead. Yeah I mean there's a lot of you're gonna have to enforce this after the fact. You do have to make people register for this so it's not as easily misused as you might think. That's the big reason why with the video avatar they're like no only particular use cases that we work with closely are gonna be able to do that one. And the personal voice, I mean you can do that personal voice stuff right now with Descript and things like that. So I think Microsoft, I don't know, I'll say they're being appropriately cautious on this. That's true. Microsoft Teams gets regenerative backgrounds and voice isolation and Microsoft's mesh mixed reality platform is gonna integrate into Teams in January so you can do 3D virtual meetings. Now you won't have to have a headset to be in the meeting. It works with the Quest 3 though if you do want to wear a headset. If you're not wearing a headset you just appear as a webcam window in the virtual setting as if you're on a conference call. And then everyone else with the headsets appears in the 3D environment. Microsoft To-Do, Microsoft Planner and Microsoft Project for the web will be combined under an umbrella, the Microsoft Planner name in Teams starting in spring of 2024. Existing apps and web apps will be renamed Planner. Now here's why NVIDIA might not be as pleased with Microsoft. Microsoft announced it's making its own chips. The Azure Maya 100 AI Accelerator and the Azure Cobalt 100 CPU. Maya can train models. So you use Maya if you're wanting to create a large language model, for example. Cobalt can run them. So once you've created the model and you just want to use it, you run it on Cobalt. These will roll out to data centers early next year. The Maya 100 is a 5 nanometer chip with 105 billion transistors and is designed specifically for the Azure stack. So Microsoft's not going to be selling these to other people. It's meant to run Azure. It'll power Microsoft services to begin with. It'll not be available to public cloud customers for their own uses, at least not at first. Microsoft didn't give a lot of detail in the architecture. It's not submitting this to public benchmarks. It did say that it had to build custom data racks to accommodate cabling and some liquid-based cooling they don't normally need. And these chips, the Mayas, use a high amount of power. The Cobalt, on the other hand, the one you run the model on, is more energy efficient. They emphasize just how energy efficient it is. It's a 128 core chip built on the ARM Neoverse CSS architecture. And Microsoft is following a trend here in creating its own chips for customers to run their models on. Amazon has the Graviton 3E inference chip. That is also based on ARM. Google is supposedly developing one based on ARM. And Cobalt will be available for new virtual machine customers in the coming year. So Maya only for Microsoft services, but everybody will be able to rent space in a data center using Cobalt. Oh man, there's so much to say here. It strikes me that, by the way, just as a side note, the world of ARM chips not taking over, but their time has come. The ARM architecture is here, baby.  Apple's got their thing. These guys are now doing this, although they're not selling chips to me, you and me. But I feel like this old adage that ARM will never catch up with 486-based architecture. Nope, we're here, baby. It's here. It's time. It didn't end around instead of catching up. It just became more power efficient than started to be used for everything. And also, this is sort of, you know, a little of an aside. But when I heard the term Maya earlier today, I was like, oh, the 3D program that Autodesk used to own? Did Microsoft buy it? No, it's a different Maya. And it's felt different. It is. And it is. But, you know, it also is like, oh, really? I'm slightly bummed that Cortana got thrown to the curb. That happened a long time ago, but if you were going to have a new name for your AI assistant, I was hoping it would make a comeback. Copilot's fine. It's fine. You want Cortana? Oh, you think Copilot should have been called Cortana? I know with you there. Yeah. I think Copilot, because it's sort of like, you know, it's your little friend on your shoulder being like, you should do this. I'm your Copilot. It's a good name. It's just embraced Clippy. Yeah. That's kind of what, yeah. Or Bob or whatever. Sure. Bring back Clippy. Call it Copilot. Yeah. It's exciting stuff though. Look at Microsoft Go, everyone. Yeah. All right. There's a little bit of fun around this next story. Tell us about it. All right. So scientists published a study in the journal Psychological Science on Monday focusing on how convincing generated images are.  The images were generated by the 2020 NVIDIA style GAN2, G-A-N2 generator. Now, in order to identify bias, only white adults, Caucasian white adults participated in the study. When shown images of white faces, they identified 66% of generated images as real, compared to 51% of real images. Now, images of non-white faces were identified as real, 51% of the time, whether they generated or not. A reminder, the participants identifying the images were all Caucasian white people themselves. The study did not include non-white participants, which I think is an interesting factor in all of this. Yeah, I think a lot of people might misinterpret why that was. There is a phenomenon with identifying what are called out groups.  Whatever you look like doesn't matter.  And what they wanted to show here or what they wanted to test was, are the training sets biased so that the images created of white faces are better, higher quality synthetics than the ones of non-white faces. And if they were to put non-white people in the panel, that would bring the recognition down because of the out group thing, because specifically they were testing for white faces. So to see if that hyper realism effect that Sarah mentioned kicked in, they were like, let's not have a confounding factor where they didn't think it was as realistic because it didn't look like them. Let's make it, since we're testing for what white faces look like, let's make it look, let's make it all white panel so that that part of it isn't playing a part in this. And what they found was, yes, the white faces seemed more realistic to the panel. That is to me only the first half of the study. I think the next half is to do other groups and say, okay, but do we see the same effect? If we test an entire Asian panel, do they rate the Asian images here as 61% hyperreal versus 51% for everything else? If that's the case, then maybe the training set isn't as biased. If it's not, if it's like only 54% or something like that, then you have a case to say, okay, definitely something going on in the training set. This is one of those things where everybody hears about it and then braces for it because we're just like, oh, what do we say? How do I dance around this? How do I talk about this? It's a really interesting thing though about how we see each other, how we see people that look like us, how we see people who don't and vice versa. There's a real opportunity here to figure that out, to assess that out. And I think Tom is dead right that the study needs more and add more data to this thing based on that than just jumping to any conclusions from what we have. And I think the results might be super interesting, might say a lot about how we think and how we behave. There's a real thing here. I suspect that, again, I wasn't part of the study, but I suspect that people will gravitate toward somebody that could be related to them physically. You know, like genetically. It doesn't mean that you have anything in common with that person, but somehow you think that person is closer to you than the next person. And a lot of that is, you know, physical stuff. And, you know, I don't think I do that myself, but at the same time, I mean, that's where bias comes in, right? A lot of the stuff is subconscious. You don't realize you're doing it. And these sorts of research projects can bring things to light that help us, you know, in humanity, have, you know, be able to deal with each other in a way that's, I guess, more fair. Sure. I think the other part of this that's really interesting is the idea that these synthetic images, even from an old style, not even the good ones we have now, that hyper-realism is a thing, that we will tend, even like forgetting the whole, like, ethnicity, 51% of the time we were looking at non-real images and going, that was real, right? So I think that's interesting is that there's an ideal in our heads that reality doesn't match, but the AI can. That's really interesting. Well, if you haven't thought about that or anything else we talk about on the show, and you don't know our email address, do you have an email address? If you don't have an email address, send us an email. Let us know, or not. But if you do have an email address, you can email us feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Scientists at DeepMind published a paper in the journal Science on Tuesday showing that one of their models called GraphCast outperformed the best existing weather forecasting models in predicting global conditions up to 10 days in advance, and they did it in a minute. One minute. Took one minute to, like, look at all the data. Yes. Got it. Let me know when it's going to rain. Thank you. One minute. As long as you want the entire Gulf of Mexico and not your particular neighborhood, I'll get to that in a minute. GraphCast outperformed the leading system, which is the ECMWF, which stands for European Center for Medium Range Weather Forecasts. It outperformed it in 90% of the 1,380 metrics they used. And on events in the troposphere, which is the lower part of the atmosphere that affects the weather we feel, it reached 99%. So things like temperature, wind speed, wind direction, humidity, pressure, et cetera. GraphCast uses a machine learning architecture called a graph neural network that is trained on more than four decades of ECMWF data. But instead of simulating like the ECMWF does, it just does what machine learning does. It predicts. GraphCast also uses less energy than ECMWF, which has to use big supercomputers. And it works well globally for things like major storms. It did a great job of predicting a hurricane in Nova Scotia, Hurricane Lee. It beat the ECMWF by three days in predicting when it would hit landfall, and it was right. Now, it isn't as good with your neighborhood forecast, with your smaller scale forecast like how much rain am I going to give in my neighborhood. So it's complimentary for current local forecasting methods, but important nonetheless. I think sounds amazing. Totally.  But I just, I think about weather all day, every day, partly because I have to walk a dog who is afraid of puddles. So when it rains, we have to just, you know, go a whole different avenue. But Hurricane Otis, with different, at literal Avenue, Hurricane Otis, which was a real hurricane that hit the Pacific coast of Mexico, down in Alcapocco. That would came upon my radar. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to do like funny. But you're doing a great job. You don't even have to. I know. It's just coming to me. I don't know. I'm built for this. But this was a hurricane that a lot of meteorologists were like, we didn't see it coming. We didn't, you know, the weather patterns kind of confused us. You know, I had a lot of people going, well, wait a second.  Now that was a little bit of an outlier storm, but something to think about, you know, as we talk about weather in different ways, more and more these days. Unfortunately, Otis in particular is an example of what Graphcast isn't good at because it was a sudden intensification and it did not outperform the other models in the case of Hurricane Otis. So it's going to, it's not perfect.  And the ECMWF is now using it. If you're like, well, great, why is the ECMWF still using all those power hungry models that aren't as good as Graphcast? Well, guess what? They're not. They're using Graphcast and they're developing their own version of it. They're going to integrate it into the systems that they already have. It sure does feel like the future though, doesn't it? Like why wouldn't this become, you know, as this gets better and better, we are going to use it more and more. And I hate how I can't rely on my weather forecast very much. It's usually kind of wrong in some way or another. Maybe it's just where I live. Maybe it's a regional anomaly, maybe has to do with climate change. But the more we get ahead of heads around this stuff, the more accurate that stuff's going to be and I am here for it. My favorite thing is, you know, and I've got one of my complications on my Apple Watch to show me, you know, what the weather is going to be for the next five hours. Like what is it now? What's the high today? And what's it going to be for the next five hours? And it's like, it is not raining. And I look outside and it is. I'm like, well, okay. You know, we're not wizards here, but that's not helpful. I think we forget how bad weather used to be. Like it was worse, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. And I think we got used to the idea that, ah, weather predictions, they're rarely right. And it's become a trend. 40% means that you can say whatever. Well, and it's become a trope to the sense that now if the weather isn't perfect, we're like, see, the weatherman isn't always right. And it's not even always a weatherman. You know, like times have changed. We have gotten very good at predicting the weather. And I think if I were to try to explain this, Graphcast is going to be really good at telling you within the next 10 days, is it going to rain? Is it going to rain on Tuesday? Graphcast is going to be really good at telling you that. Is it going to rain at 10 a.m.? At 1 p.m.? Is it going to rain a lot? Is it going to rain a little? That's the part it's not as good at. Yeah, that makes sense. And just as progress in this area is always a good thing. And also, I'm sure I'm not the only person listening to the show who, when she said Hurricane Otis, we thought about our dog and maybe raising havoc in your house. That's what we all thought. Yeah. So I just wanted to point that out. He can be a hurricane. Trust me on that. You can't predict that though. Luckily, he cannot make it rain outside the home. And he's afraid of puddles. He's very afraid of puddles. It's weird.  All right, let's check out the mailbag. Let's do it. This one comes from Bill who wrote in about our PlayStation portal discussion from a Monday show. Bill says, I've had my PS5 since launch and it resides next to my OLED in my basement movie room. The main room that my wife and I live in is our living room upstairs. After work and supper, maybe we work out. The only time we really have to sit and be around each other is for a couple of hours in the evening. Could I escape to my beautiful OLED downstairs for some gaming only to come back up when it's time for bed? Sure, but sometimes I'd like to stay upstairs where we can have conversations and we're watching Euro trip for the 20th time while I remote play on my laptop. Laptop works fine, but due to an issue with the Wi-Fi card, I'm stuck at 30 frames per second with some packet drops every five to 10 minutes. I also have to be aware of any kind of pressure being put on the laptop's USB port. So Bill says, the portal solves all of this for me. I can easily play something while lying in bed or sitting on the couch. As long as it works like the PlayStation remote play app, it'll also work outside of my house as long as it has an internet connection. Bill says, I'm planning on getting the portal once it's been out for a while. Bill seems really smart. He wants to make sure he still has good conversations with us. Yeah, Bill has thought about it. He wants to have a high quality gaming. Number one, talk to your wife. And is also planning on getting the portal after other people have bug-tested it. Yeah, that's a beautiful way to do it. And he's right about all the use cases. This makes perfect sense. I do this with my steam deck and my wife while she watches her terrible Hallmark Christmas shows. I like to sit and play games and then chat with her while we're doing it and make jokes back and forth. So he's got that part right. The only part that really is open right now is how's the latency in some extended use cases? So far, I've heard from a bunch of people in my community that listen to my gaming shows saying they love it. They're very happy with it. They say it's heavy, feels well-built, not heavy in a bad way, but, you know, like it's a nice hardware, solid state piece of hardware. Yeah, it doesn't feel like jenki. As long as you've got a good connection within the house, you've done some decent, you know, Wi-Fi work in there. It sounds like it's going to be exactly what he needs it for. And I'm stoked for PlayStation 5 developers or developers, players, to have this method of taking their games with them. And for these use cases, because they are more common than we think. And I think Sony knew that. That's the reason this is a product. So I say, if it works that well, well done Sony and well done everybody who needs it for what it's good for. Love it. Agreed. Well, Scott Johnson, we knew you were going to have thoughts on this. And thanks for sharing them. And thanks for being on the show in general. And we want to know more about what you think about gaming and what else you do. Well, the good news is I launched, hopefully successfully. It seems like it's so far a new monthly discussion show with myself and Greg Street and the people at his new gaming AAA MMO developing company called Fantastic Pixel Castle. If you go over to frogpants.com slash street or their website, which you can find very easily by searching that name, you will find the first episode in both podcast form and in a archival video form. We live stream it as well. The idea here is to be very transparent from ground zero all the way up to the top of this thing when they release a game about how it's made, working with players on what they want, how they want it. It's a it's a very different approach to this sort of stuff. So if that sounds interesting at all and you want to get behind the scenes on this stuff, come check it out. That's every month available now at frogpants.com slash street. Fantastic. I'm so excited for that. You and Ghostcrawler are podcasting together. That's awesome. We've been thinking this would happen for years, but we didn't know how. And now we found a way. Life finds a way to podcast patrons. Stick around for the extended show. Good day internet. The 2023 game awards have been announced and one of the best games of the year. Starfield got one nomination. People are upset, but it's a great year for games. So what do you do? Well, Scott Johnson will tell us what to do. So stick around. You can also catch the show live Monday through Friday at four p.m. Eastern 2100 UTC. That's when DTNS is live. Find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. We'll be back tomorrow with Will Smith joining us. Talk to you then.


Steel Knight 20 demonstrates the Marine Corps' utility as America's expeditionary force and readiness, and it validates our ability to fight and win against a peer-to-peer adversary. And what's great about this year's iteration, it builds on the previous exercise scenarios to create the largest, most complex steel knight that we've conducted today. A regimental-sized amphibious assault by our first Marine Regiment, supported by Third Fleet. When the Navy and Marine Corps team gets together, it's the strongest and most lethal fighting pair in the world. We're constantly looking for ways to better integrate with our U.S. Navy's Third Fleet to ensure that the First Marine Division is optimized for naval expeditionary warfare and contested spaces, and is purpose-built and task-organized to facilitate and support the fleet as a fleet Marine Force. It's required as a mission-essential task to support major combat operations from the First Marine Division. And by increasing the size and scope and difficulty, we increase the readiness of our forces and the confidence that prepares them to be successful to execute dynamic aerosalt operations while forward-employed. These operations ensure that First Marine Division is going to be ready to conduct full-spectrum aerosalt operations anywhere in the world in a contested environment against a capable peer-to-peer adversary. It's not just man-made obstacles that we have to contend with on the battlefield. It's also natural obstacles. And a wet-gap crossing is a movement of troops and equipment across a major water obstacle, such as a river. Having this capability in our arsenal expands the different types of terrains in which our Marines can fight and land. In any climb in place, the men and women of the First Marine Division are ready and able to negotiate any terrain and obstacle they encounter. And this wet-gap crossing will be the largest one that we've ever done. Moving an entire armored battalion across a bridge constructed by First MLG's bridge company. Well, Combined Arms Breach is central to the Marine Corps Dock. There are going to be times when you have to reduce an enemy's strong point. Your obstacles placed by the enemy have got to be cleared so you can continue along an avenue of approach and support the commander's scheme maneuver as it enables further offensive operations. We train as we fight in Steel Knight Breach. We'll combine supporting arms, organic fires, operations in the information environment, and maneuver in such a way that creates a no-win situation for our enemy. Additionally, this exercise provides us the opportunity to conduct combined arms operations, enable fleet integration, and the fundamental, blocking and tackling war fighting skills, all of which maintain our continuum of readiness as a critical component of the joint force.  Semper Fidelis from all of us in the Blue Diamond here at Exercise Steel Knight 20 and have a happy and safe holiday season.


Dude just kiss me like I don't know what the problem is did I do something wrong because you're saying you're in a period There's no way that this is from your period. I just want to be left alone right now What is up Marvel Squad I have to be very freakin quiet I have to be very freakin fast I am in a rush right now. I'm going to be doing as you ever the title.  I'm gonna get him really freakin good. I'm sorry, babe I love you so much, but I gotta hurry up with this intro because he is gonna come down here any minute So before we get onto this video make sure you give the video a big thumbs up make sure you hit the subscribe button You're following us on all of our Instagrams and our social medias because we're almost 100,000 and I cannot freakin win We're gonna give our beginning of the video post invocations shout out and that shout out goes to underscore Mickey Sullivan So shout out to you Mickey. We love you so much Thank you for being a part of our channel and guys we are gonna set up this camera And we're gonna prank him because I literally just heard him flush toilet So we gotta hurry up. Now I'm sure the lighting's good, but it's okay.  No What? I don't want to I wanna sit on his couch. Sure Really? All right by the side. How's it going? More More? I only got so much. I have an eight all night. I have neither, so we'll make some pizzas. Let's make some pizzas Some pizzas.  We're gonna eat multiple pizzas.  Don't eat all of it. I'm trying to stay healthy No, you know, you're never gonna get fat. I gotta worry about getting that You know What? What is mine? You know what? No, I Like myself out of my phone for five minutes. Yeah, I was tapping but it's not in my pocket That's what I got. He does it all the time. My phone's like messed up. That's funny Yeah, how it doesn't take pictures? Yeah, you like how I have your barber's claw putty on? I got cold so I put it on. I see that But it's cold on here. Yeah, it's cold I like it though. I know How do I kiss? I don't know Why? I don't know. I was not, no I know.  No, I just don't want to. I'm sorry.  I was trying to kiss Yeah, well, sometimes I like my space and right now I want my space. Yeah You can blow this up. You're okay. You're messing with me. I just don't want to have a kiss right now You don't want to have a kid? Kiss. A kid? You want to have a kid? Yeah, right now. Like a baby No, no.  Are you sure? Yeah. Want to? Yeah. Oh, drink it. Just drink it. You kissed it. I don't want it. Please drink it. You're bogus though. Are you in one of those moods? No, what mood? Noy mood? Like you're annoyed? On your period? On your period mood? Yeah, it's like in my period mood. Pre-period. This is the pre-period mood. I just got my period.  I'm not really in the mood to deal with it. You have to give me a kiss. Just leave me alone right now.  No, I'm not even going to give me a bite. That's not even kissing me. No. Just take a bite. Don't eat a lot. Don't eat.    I'm just asking.  They globber the things down two bites. They globber the things down two bites. They globber the things down two bites.  Why? Because I don't want to kiss you right now. You're messing with me though? I'm messing with you? Yeah. I just don't feel like kissing you. And I don't even really want you fully next to me like that. Oh. No, I don't. You're like... See Madeline's to you and you've got 50k views in the day. That is badass. Good for them. That was a funny video though. It was. Literally. He is so funny. Madeline just told me it's food poisoning. Food poisoning? Yeah, I don't know. I hope you look at it. Can we get some pizzas? Maybe. You have to kiss me. Why do I have to kiss you?  Because I'm not on the move for you to just be on me right now. What does that even mean? Like I just don't... No. See, it's like what did I do this time? You know? What did I do this time to make you not want to kiss me? I'm just being annoying. That's what it is. I came down.  First of all, this is mine. I bought it. I didn't buy it. But I'm eating it. I got it. So, do you want to know the bite? Kiss me. No, I don't really need another bite. I don't eat pizza.  Just kiss me.     Yeah, because literally I can't kiss you at any time. Kiss me right now. No. It's not fair. It's not fair that you can kiss me whenever you want. I just told you I just don't want to kiss you and you're not respecting that. Maybe I just want to be left alone right now.  I just don't want to kiss you right this moment. I'm not in the mood. I'm cranky and emotional. Okay, so what moment will you like to kiss me? When I'm ready. When I tell you I'm ready. I better be juicy. I like that moment. Now you're to... babe, get... Just kiss me. No. I'm not trying to force... I don't want you to kiss me right now.  Yeah, you better not because that's sick.  Weirdo. Not letting it happen.  Kissing isn't that big of a deal. It's just lips on lips. Yes, but... You give me a hug. I can hug. No, I just want to hug. Okay, that's it. You're trying to be slick. You're not kissing me.  Ew. Hey, look at you.  Get out of here. Kiss something.   Watch out for your phone. Nothing. Come here. I just want to hug. Okay, you give me a hug. That's it. Bill! No! I don't want you to kiss me right now. This is actually bogus. Like what are you doing? Not wanting to kiss you right now. Can you just like let me... Are you pranking me? No, I'm not pranking you. Why did I look for a camera?  Because it's actually annoying me now that you're... I don't care.  And if you're actually serious right now, like that's pretty bogus. Babe! I don't want your lips on mine right now and I told you that. That's upsetting though. I'm sorry that that upsets you. I've been waiting all day. What are you doing? I'm just trying to sit next to you.  Is it that hard? I just don't want to be kissed. No. Just do it once and I'll be done. No, I don't want to kiss you right now. Just give me one kiss and I'll play guitar or something. No. I don't get why. You just don't stop. You're not messing with me. I'm not messing with you. I just don't want to kiss you. What is this phone? What do you buy on a tiny period? Yes, I'm in that emotional state and I don't want to be locked up. Emotional? You need affection. No, I don't want that right now. Yes, I'm not kissing. I don't want to right now.  Why don't you just respect that I don't want? I'm sorry.  You're not my chief. We need to get my lips. It's not going to happen. Get it off of me. You're hurting me. Bill, you're right now. Don't hug me. Come kiss me. No, I don't want to. Kiss me. Respect that. On the lips. Can you surprise me with a kiss? I'll buy you yogurt. I'll buy you ice cream. I'll buy you some Wendy's or something. Just kidding. Do you want dairy cream? Creamery? Do you want creamery? Here we go. We'll go right out. Very tempting but I just want to be left alone. You're joking. You're joking. Why can't you just let me be? Fine, fine.   And then we'll smooch later. Very annoying. Kiss me. Or I say goodbye. I just... Why can't you just...  Your lips on my lips. Now you're trying right now.   Watch your lips on mine. Is that good? No. Did I earn your kiss? No, you did too. I wiped it off. You're bogus. No, I'm not. You're horrible. I literally wrote you a song. I wrote you two songs. That was not even a song. That was just asking me to kiss you. That's not no song. That's a kissing song. It's a romantic song. No, it's not. A lot more.  I just don't want to be kissed. You don't want to be kissed? No. Really? You're messing with me because that's not you.  You know that? Yeah, but not right now. Dude, just kiss me. Like, I don't know what the problem is. Did I do something wrong? Because you're saying you're on a period. There's no way that this is from your period. I just want to be left alone right now. And you're just... Well... Come on. I just don't want to... I'm gonna look up all your makeup. Okay, okay. Enough of makeup. I'm sick. It's prank. You're not even filming. You don't have your camera here. That's how I am. It's right there. Is that my camera? Yeah, I took it while you went to the bathroom. I did not think he was gonna sing. You got my singing on here? Yeah, you were singing. Ugly. Okay. I'm sorry you had to hear that. Or maybe if you liked it, yeah, I'll hold it for you. Maybe if you liked it, comment down below, but like, did not think anyone was watching.  Everyone knows. I don't know if everyone knows, but you know I don't sing in front of everyone. Anyone. Anyone or everyone. You don't. Oh yeah, you do. You like to sing. I'm not that bad of a singer. I want to redo it. Can we redo this video? No. I want to redo this video. Can we just do the singing part? No. I want to do the singing part. No. You should just quit. What's he doing? He's so confused. Jake's off. Jake's off. All right guys, when I was Jake's off the body and do not, please do not keep playing that part. Don't save that part. Yeah, everybody go on your fan pages and read that part.  I was like, what did I do wrong now? What did I do? You didn't freak out like I thought you were, but you did freak out. I love when you kiss me. That's just bogus, but I'm more worried about that guitar part. Can we just cut that out? No. We're not cutting out. We're not cutting it out. But I'm the editor. I'm the editor though. It doesn't matter. I'm not letting you cut it out. Fine. I'll keep that in just. You're bogus. Now I got to get you back now. Finally, Team Riot comes back. Finally. Not even though because my prank was way better, right? I did one of these pranks on you. Didn't I? In this exact basement. I did yours on that. Is that why you said on this couch? Yeah, exactly. I was wondering why, the first thing I asked, I was like, why aren't you on the big couch? The big couch was always better. Why? Because we're the best team out here. You already know. No. Okay. You're not the best team. You're kind of even with me right now. He would be burned makeup. But guys, don't worry. Yeah. That was pretty bad in the video. I hope you guys love that too. If you haven't seen it yet, we posted it Sunday. Go check it out. It's freaking awesome. Guys, don't worry. I'll be getting him back with that too. This is just a prank. What? In the meantime. You better be paying me. This is just a prank in the meantime. You're not destroying my car though. Nothing else.  You're not just a baby. You're not doing anything in my car. I'm gonna go to the end of the video and post a big shout out. And the person that I'm gonna shout out today is Holly Gannon. Shout out to you. Thank you for being a part of our channel. We love you so much. Yes. If you guys wanna post something in case you already know what to do, make sure you're subscribed. Hit the bell button. Like the video. And you'll be good. You'll be good. You'll be in the shout out poll. That was nice. All right guys. We will see you guys in the next video. But until then, peace. I'm gonna get you back so hard. I'm gonna burn this stuff. I'm gonna burn something in case. We already said peace. I'm gonna get you back so hard. I'm gonna burn something in case. Guys, I'm gonna get it back so hard. Peace.  Peace.