I'd like to call the meeting of the all wards MP8 to order Get a motion to adopt the agenda For a second, thank you Agenda has been adopted. We're going to move into welcoming introductions. I'll start my name is Chris Haysley I'm on the steering committee for Ward 3. I live on College Street, and I've been on the MPA now for about three years Go right finish chewing. Hi everybody. I'm Jess Hyman. I'm on the Ward 2 NPA steering committee, and I've been on the steering committee for about four years I think Ryan Nick Ward 8 steering committee member been on the steering committee for about six weeks Pronouns are he him and I live on King Street. I'm Lena they them and I'm on the Ward 5 steering committee I have been on that committee for about a year I'm Carol Livingston She her and I have been on the Ward 1 steering committee probably I don't know five or six years I think it's been that long anyway Samantha Ayat Ward 1 steering committee about Had jumped on and Pronouns are she her Good evening everybody Scott Rogers he him I'm a community development manager with CEDO and I'm here as Administrative support to the MPAs Hi, Fosca. She her pronouns. I also work for CEDO as the NPA public engagement specialist Okay, we'll do introductions for our folks who are joining us online via zoom Steering committee and have been for about two and a half years now you see her My name is Nancy Harkins. I Wasn't able to change my name on my screen resume screen I'm also on the Ward 6 steering committee for about two and a half years. I live on River Street My name is Hank French. I'm on the brand new RECOM to feed it NPA Wards four and seven because I've been on it for about six minutes Apple three-point lane not apple three-point Hi everyone, I am Lauren ever saw I'm on the Ward 2 steering Committee I use she her pronouns and I have been on this steering committee for about six months I've previously served on the white board eight steering committee before time on the word for seven steering With Hank and Sarah you haven't even had our first meeting yet. So Russia Russia's who is being Yeah, and my pronouns are she I Anybody else online who would like to introduce themselves we got everybody I'm Michelle Barbas. I'm on Ward 3 and I've been on four months All right. Thank you everybody for taking the time to introduce yourselves Quick announcement here that the de-escalation training for interested steering committee members will be held on January the 30th From 5 to 7 p.m. Right here in the Sharon busher conference room if anyone is interested in that Next up on the agenda the NPA input on the con plan Rebecca Lawrence Gomez here will be playing presenting on that. She's our housing manager from CEDO So without further ado, it's all you Rebecca technical difficulties Rebecca we're ready for your presentation Since Rebecca seems to be temporarily unavailable. Maybe we should move on to the next item on the agenda perhaps And that will be overview of the bylaw work expectations and updates. I assume Scott and our Fosca You'll be presenting on those items Hi everyone Mainly we just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page about this the city council past resolution on October 23rd, I believe Asking that the NPAs do some work to make the NPAs more open and accessible and They have asked that the NPAs do so by January 31st, 2024 or as soon as possible So this is just a reminder about that and Basically, I think last all words meeting it was kind of it was unclear You know, whether the city would be coming forward with bylaws for you to use or vice versa And so we just had an update that I believe you are all emailed about this as well But just to reiterate that you all are welcome to make changes to your bylaws Scott put together some sample bylaws that we're working with the city attorney's office to make better and You're welcome to create changes to those bylaws vote them in and then You're all we suggest that then the city attorney's office take a look at them to ensure that they adhere with city policies on anti-discrimination and Inclusion, I don't know Scott if you want to say anything else Yeah, thank thank you Fosca so we had a meeting earlier with the city attorney's office and they did give us some smart I think really excellent feedback Obviously as NPAs you're in control of your own process on how you want to update your bylaws certainly there are things I think that Through the city resolution that they would like to be included But we did want to open it up today to I think Get an idea of where the various wards are in the process of updating their bylaws If there is additional guidance that we can provide And we will provide additional guidance and with some of the feedback that we've received from the city's attorney's office We're certainly very thankful for the city's attorney's office for the work. They're doing on that I can let you know that REI be Is working very hard on the process Should complaints or the need to potentially remove Eastern committee member That process is being developed I expect that we'll have some more answers on that shortly But certainly do appreciate the hard work that REIB is doing on that That is something I think that'll be very important as you move in your process of updating your bylaws as well We will have more clear Oh, sorry, that is racial equity inclusion and belonging This is a Department of City government. It is here to advise us on the best ways to reach out to a diverse community and different populate different populations and They'll be taking a role in this process We will have I think more specific information on In essence a complaint process To you within possibly by it's during this Friday as we go through some of the materials that we've received from the city's attorney's office We're happy to answer any questions and Hear your feedback of where you are in the process and In timing etc We It's connected to the last all-words NPA meeting Posting on civic clerk if you have civic clerk candy It's one of the attachments to that meeting if that's available for you Okay, we'll be send it to everybody I think it'll probably be helpful to get a fresh email So we'll do that for you Carmen. Thank you. Thank you I have a question Scott and Flosca. So the wards to NPA passed Approved its revised bylaws this last week When once the RE RE IB has developed the complaint process Will that need to be inserted into the bylaws and will we need to vote on them again? Or would that will that information be separate from the bylaws? You would need to put that process into into your your bylaws So I do appreciate how fast you were to get those updated, but there'd probably be another vote To add some additional information in there Again, you know, we know we looked at wards two and three and there you already have some very strong bylaws So that was you know, good to see but yeah, once we have more clarification on that process I'm a little bit more clarification on a potential removal part process again I hope this is a process that the NPAs will never use it'll be there. There's options, you know, including removal censure each of these processes comes with you know Reciprocal rights for the all the individuals involved and we want to make sure we respect those But this information should be forthcoming So we've heard from Ward 7 and Ward 2 and get an update from perhaps Ward 1 First of all, it'd be great if people in the room could speak up a little bit, too That'd be great. I guess I'm confused. I attended the last all wards meeting And There are a couple of things operating for me in this one is that I think it's pretty important that We have a con we have consistent language Among the wards, that's that's what I I think I'd be interested in hearing what other people have to say and That that it's consistent with what the city has for any discriminatory any discrimination language My understanding from leaving the last meeting is that there were going to be folks that we're going to Craft some suggested language for us to take a look at So we haven't We haven't as Ward 1 we haven't taken this task on yet. I mean Lena you all had come up with I Thought really good language and we looked at it last time I'm sort of wondering what the process here is here for we have you know people working on their own And then we have something coming out of CEDO And to be honest, I think we're just going to sit tight till it all sort of Because we have a lot going on and that's just it's not number one in our attendees to be honest It would be something that a seat SC nerds would be working on but We don't really have any interest in opening up the cannon worms more than once I really appreciate that you've already done that But it makes no sense at all so when CEDO and REIB and everybody comes back with you know What from column A and like from column B then we can go and approach it I just want to say that's great feedback and I think that's a good course of action The sample sorry, I keep forgetting it doesn't project. So the sample that we put together that that's for you to use as you see fit You can customize things the way you feel it if you feel works better for your the culture of your MPA There will be some some select things that you know The city attorney's office will say pay special attention to this because we think you need to have it because there will be Ultimately a process that we have to have the legal justification for so it'll be important that maybe That you follow the city guidance on that very clearly other things are really up to you and your award to develop as you see fit Could I just make a suggestion? I mean, I think we talked about this a little bit last month that That the city's Anti-discrimination policy should be part of of the NPA's If if if that exists wonderful It would be great to have a link a clear link to it that we can just drop in and if REIB is going to do something Or if the city's attorney is going to do something Why don't they just create some dummy links and we can just put in our Bylaws we will follow policy based on the link here and just as soon as you guys are ready will be ready So we don't have to go and think too hard about it if they're mandatory things that need to go in You should provide the links for them and then we can just put the links And we can do that we already have and will certainly ensure that you have the links to this but the non-discrimination policy of the city the Inclusion policy of the city and certainly will will will link to everybody ultimately what any sort of Complaint process looks like or removal process should look like and so we can get everybody that language and and and for your ward If that's just the path you want to take I think that's a good path Anybody from ward 4 want to speak? Sorry Dale on Linus had hand raised for a while Thanks, this is Dale from Ward 6, so we had used the sample that was provided to develop some proposed Ward 6 bylaws that we were going to bring to our February 1st meeting But it seems a little strange to do that if there's actually more language still coming that we don't have yet so It would be helpful to understand that better and also Scott, I heard you say something about having the city attorney Review the bylaws and it seems to me that we would want to do that before we bring them for a vote because it'd be kind of a Waste of time to vote on things if we're going to hear later that they don't ask muster so I Guess although we have bylaws that we were set to put out It's February for discussion and then probably vote in March that is the schedule that we were looking at but it sounds like maybe We're going to want to push that back Hi, Dale, and that's a great point and Interesting thing that you do mention the city attorney's office has mentioned to us The idea that before they're voted on They can take a look at the draft and provide comments before it's voted on so that's another Tax you can take and it's probably the best act to take so within the city the resolution city council Past it noted that the MPA should make changes their bylaws By the end of January 34 or as soon as practicable So, you know if in certain cases some words go to beginning of March I think that's fine if a ward had to call a special meeting in between that to just we're going to devote one meeting to Do our bylaws and get it done? I think that's fine as well And Dela and I do apologize for I missed any questions Something that we were concerned about I have a feeling that if we call the special meeting just to address bylaws We would not get a quorum which our current bylaws say is 10 people I honestly don't think there's 10 people who would show up just to talk about bylaws So I don't Maybe in other words, it's different but in Ward 6 I don't see a special meeting being an option because if we don't get a quorum then we still can't vote Thank you, Dale And yeah, I would suggest following you know your word better than we do and and you know if it goes into March You know, certainly that is as soon as practicable I think we'll recognize Christopher and Falker and then Hank Prensky Located Hi Christopher, I am happy to email those directly to you As soon as I can And I will as well as I'm trying to incorporate some of the changes that have been requested by the city attorney's office So I'll get those when they're completed as well. So I'm happy to keep that line of communication open I can say I'm using version whatever That would be helpful.  It has the current bylaws and then down below it has The last version I received Yeah, I wanted to Comment that if you're going to incorporate several things that are Suggested or required by the city attorney if you could Have some way of labeling the different parts You know how you fill out every goddamn thing online and there's a little app that says this This thing is required. This is a required field So if you would give us A key to say these are the required fields that are gonna be in everybody's bylaws So don't even mess with them Perfect. Thank you so much Hank. That's uh, we will make sure that that is done for everyone So I think we've heard from all wards Ryan. Do you want to give an update on six eight? Excuse me Sorry, please. We're late. We're late. Sorry. My new home I Well, we're gonna have our meeting next week to discuss these it'll be on the agenda I'd not to like cause an issue right like what's the virtue of us all having different anti-discrimination policies Like particularly around issues like this in conflict resolution. I feel like it should be consistent across the MPAs Like I don't want to move houses and have a different. I don't know discrimination policy That's good because I can clarify that as well I think the expectation would be around those type of policies non-discrimination Part of the process of potentially removing people's sanctions that that would follow a Process that's been guided to us and advised to us by by the city attorney's office And I'll make that when I when I do update the the sample bylaws I'll make that abundantly clear to people Yeah, as well just so you know because I think Hank and I think your your questions are really really on point And then ultimately there there are things that it's really up to you to kind of look at the culture of your MPA And and I think that might be one of the wonderful things about the MPAs is that they're all different So but there'll be certain things where we think there is some level of legal obligation or potential that that puts the city potentially in in a in a The situation that may may not be defensive legally right we're gonna want to make sure that that that all okay So we are gonna have the same hot like whatever it is. It's gonna be the same across all the MPs eventually. Yes, that'd be the great Anybody else have anything to add from the words You brought up that we had The last all-words meeting one of the ways that we've tried to walk the line between I also don't see the Benefit of everybody having different bylaws there this that and the other I Think it would be really helpful to as some of my mind said like let's be really clear about what is the same in all Of the bylaws and then there many of us already have bylaws the rest of which do not need to be changed That's fine. That allows us to like keep our character I believe that culture is broader and more robust than the language of bylaws. So I'm like, I don't really I don't really get it Anyway, I we we had a really great discussion in word five about the resolution Which we brought that the original text of to the last all-words meeting and then it totally changed Over the course of our discussion So we were able to have a really good conversation as a community and really get into like why it's important that we do Which I think is much more like essential to our neighborhood fabric Then the words in the resolution and then we passed it unanimously with a vote of 20 to 0 like it was a it was a really cool experience and I think the bylaws process will be a little more belabored because that language is inherently less accessible But if we can get really clear guidance on like XYZ things are the same the rest of it Do with how bad it is then we make sure that folks are folks are accommodated no matter what word they live in That's good All of us would need to indicate in our bylaws which paragraphs or which Required by the city so that if somebody is You know in our words just happens to want to look at the bylaws It's clear that this is there because it's a required field And that we didn't decide that so if you have problems with that talk to Scott Jessica, yeah, thank you. Thank you for those comments and Excuse me, I just wanted to to agree with and add to what Hank just said And I realize I'm saying this after we've approved our our bylaws and and this could could Could mean a change, but I think Structurally it might be a lot easier if there was the standard bylaws that every ward has and that's the top part And then there's an end also and to have things that are specific to the different wards as a separate section Just because it would be really difficult just as Hank was saying it'd be difficult for someone reading it to know like Which is the special thing for Ward Ward 2 and 2 and 3 and which is a special thing for Ward 8 So I think just in terms of clarity It might be helpful to have to have that standard text and then the end in Ward Whatever the additional things that way for us it would require that that would require a lot more work Which I don't I'm not speaking on behalf of our steering committee right now. That's just my my thought as I As I'm listening to the conversation Thank you, Jess, and I think we can probably work up an option for that as well Hey, any further comments on the bylaws discussion Those papers are right up from the city attorney and from CEDO out I just have a point of information question just so that we work clear the bylaws and the procedures that you're talking about through REID for grievance and Removal or censure. I'd just like to some clarification removal and censure of Steering committee members exclusively or Is this look is are you looking to extend this to NPA or community members who are at attendance Yeah, quick quick. Yeah, great question Christopher Aaron, and I can certainly clarify it to the best of my ability. So the removal process in Censure is really focused on steering committee members should it rise to that occasion Again people have to come to the realization that Steering committee members as well as many people don't leave their first amendment rights at the door But what we've been told is that the steering committee can extend clear expectations of meeting behaviors That they have to universally apply to everybody Which some NPAs do at the beginning of every every NPA they'll say Respect people listen to different opinions don't talk over people So those are the type of things that an NPA can put in place should someone continue to violate those then there could be sanctioned in regard to somebody In an open meeting of the public There Could potentially be an option in an extreme case for a person to be removed Who wasn't following? the meeting guidelines and Certainly those meeting guidelines would have to be even handedly applied to everyone attending the public meeting You know whether it was you know a religion and I say somebody was going after someone's religion or somebody was going after someone for their sexuality making it personal as long as it's applied even handedly and consistently my understanding is that a NPA could potentially ask a member of the public to leave a meeting They could certainly ask a member of the member of the public to leave the meeting if the person was speaking beyond their time limits or in other ways Disrupting the course of the meeting Recognize Todd DeLuca who's had his hand up Todd you're up I just wanted a little clarity around like the The issue of pronouns And in the bylaws because this is what we're talking about right like People who use sex-based pronouns like Jeff Comstock versus people who use Self-assigned pronouns and whether or not How people used to choose pronouns is is is considered Something that can get you kicked out of the NPA And so I was just hoping that someone would very specifically clarify like if you are a person who uses Sex-based pronouns So you refer to so what that means is I'm talking about like you refer to a woman as she hurt And a man as he can Is that is that behavior that will get you kicked out of an NPA? If someone could clarify that hi Todd um Yeah, so I do want to say that you know, I don't have a Firm answer for you today. This is something that's being worked on with our REI be in the city attorney's office Obviously, there'll be some legal work done on this And We'll get back to you with more information you know What I can say is you know the rules are different for for people who are on NPAs who attend NPAs And then there's rules for staff as a staff member I follow city Protocols on on on pronoun usage so We will get you more definitive information and I will certainly be following up with REI be the city's attorney's office To get that clarification as soon as possible If and there is somebody who continually Takes actions, which I think that you know the interesting Todd was saying like say someone decides I'm only no matter what the person tells me I've been a key referring to them as There what I perceive as their biological gender, but there could be intersex people, you know, there's huge assumptions can be made What is, you know, if we could hear more about what is the liability of the steering committee NPA if we sit our complacent in someone being harassed Because It does for me kind of start feeling like it steps into that realm where someone is just asking you to call me Like I'm saying this is my name and you just refuse to call them by that name which is You know, so I just like to know like What is the legal ramifications of not respecting another Steering committee member for specific rate Things like this whether it's race gender It would just be really helpful to have that spelled out I was just going to respond to your question Carmen about liability you did email me about that and I've Injured the acting city attorney is looking into that right now And whether that liability insurance does cover steering committee members. So if that's Specifically the question you're asking it's in the works getting you an answer I Just want to revise that sorry Carmen. We're still trying to confirm whether or not The steering committee members of the NPAs fall under the city's liability insurance Jonathan I'm gonna try to make this rant a little bit short But it comes with a little history Back 20 years ago. I was on a school board in the county and it was at a time when When at the time we thought there were an undue number of school shootings going on We didn't know how bad it would get but at the time there was talk about putting In the community that was type out putting metal detectors at the front doors of the schools you may remember that this was a conversation that happened at the time and My superintendent was adamant about not doing it because because the metal detectors creates an environment that that That hurts Education that hurts learning that hurts teaching it changes the community when you do something like that my concern here is that this and I'm hearing it in this conversation that I'm not saying there's not a problem. There was a problem with shooting in schools But my concern is that we're going to create some kind of infrastructure. That's going to take community neighborhood friendliness Consider consideration for each other out of the process of the NPAs Because we're trying to protect a certain aspect of our community, which is what metal detectors would have done That worries me a lot. I hope that that I hope that after we have this conversation We kind of backs away and we kind of forget that the infrastructure is in place so we don't have to worry about it anymore because it's It's very disturbing to me to think that we're building these walls to protect People where what the NPA is there for is to it's for it's for openness. It's for accessibility It's for belonging and and most of the people who come to NPA meetings I would venture to say 95 percent of people come to NPA meetings feel that that it's about community So that's my concern Any other further comments on this? questions I'll just put on the war three hat for a moment and say really appreciate the support from the city's attorney's office And they're willing us to review this and work with us on on this issue. I Think that as we talked about at the last meeting there's some question about the legal status of the NPAs and Wishing to get a better handle on that I actually went back and talked to a member of our community who served on the city council and actually voted on the resolution And that individual ensured me that the intent behind the NPAs was that we were intended to be an independent voice of the community separate from the city government and not under the Umbrella of CEDA or any other city department. So I think forward three We've pretty much met the spirit of the resolution if not the intent and I think as evidenced by the fact that the words two and three Bylaws were used. I think is the sample for the sample bylaws that came about So I think you know to the extent that the city is working to ask the NPAs We'll get a lot farther, but I don't think that word three sees ourselves as part of city government. So Sure My bet is is that when the legal language comes from the city attorney that we should have more conversation together To just deliver language is probably not going to be help as helpful as Understanding what its implication means and the answer questions that we may have That Carmen is raised and other folks have raised Thank you. That's a wonderful point and I Can only make a suggestion because you know, we're trying to get back to the rule where you know for a certain time CEDA was We were scheduling all awards meetings, but in reality that should come from you to us We're here is to help to assist you and so but my suggestion would be to have another meeting in February of all Wards to discuss the bylaws and discuss the process. We will have more legal language for you So there'll be more specificity And then we are here to serve your needs Thank you. If there's not any further questions or discussions on this topic I will move on to the overview of the amount open meeting laws and Chris to we can can we do the con plan? Yeah, that we got a circle back. Yeah, let's do the con plan. Thanks for Rebecca are you available? and My name is Rebecca. I am the housing programs manager for the city of Burlington And I'm gonna ask you all to join me again for a couple of minutes to think about and look at The city's consolidated then for housing and community development So this is a plan that the city conducts every five years So we last completed it in 2018 speak them because I cannot see you all on screen sharing and So, yeah, please just hop in with any questions or comments You might have like I said, I'll do a brief overview and then I'm gonna take a couple minutes to collect feedback and talk to you all the consolidated plan is a very large document wherein we look at Conducting a needs assessment, which is part of what we're gonna talk about tonight Looking at a market analysis of what's happening in the city of Burlington and then we build a strategic plan for how we will be prioritizing resources And specifically these are federal resources the city of Burlington receives Non-competitive funding from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development every year and there are two Four and so funding we receive we receive the community development block grant which you all may have heard of as CDBG and that's about 730,000ish per year and then we also receive funds Better title home funds or home investment partnership program and that's around 430,000 annually that the city receives so it's just about a million dollars that we get In non-competitive funding, which means we don't have to apply every year We certainly have to do reporting and do this report in such But it's something that we get through the federal government and the report I'm working on or the plan I'm working on will be looking at the time period of July of 2024 all the way through the middle of 2029 So starting this winter been doing a community needs assessment and have been speaking and meeting with some of you in this room Actually, as well as lots of community partners providers folks who are experiencing hardship and difficulties and February 12th, we are hoping to join City Council and hold a formal public hearing at that time in April We'll have a draft of our plan for public comment and then in May we will submit the final plan to HUD Hopefully for approval for our funding that we'll start this summer I already mentioned the financials that we received out of this plan and that we received directly from HUD But here you can see the more specific numbers. I'm gonna zip right through this. You guys will have access to these flags and this data through FOSCA So yeah, so here I am with the feedback section and just want to let you all know what we're doing to collect feedback Here from you all tonight and then also here from you where we think we should be doing additional outreach and communication So we've conducted a fair number of organizational interviews and we're trying to run the gamut of service providers community folks, so spoke with Let's see this week I've spoken with the Association of Africans living in Vermont with the Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility with Folks from CDOEO, so just kind of like a wide range of providers There have been meetings with individuals so folks who are experiencing homelessness Folks who are residents of Burlington Will be continuing to do outreach at the shelters, at the food shelf, at some community centers There's an online survey. There's a link here and I'll make sure FOSCA gets you the link as well Encourage and ask you all to fill that out and if you look at the very big bottom of this slide You'll see that kind of word mashup and that is Feedback that we have received to date from the survey in regards to written in comments that people have made So for example, we can all see the word housing is is largest among that word bubble and that indicates that in written comments folks have provided the highest level of commentary around the need for housing in terms of a priority for Burlington Back so I can see you all it was pretty quick, okay My intention of meeting with you is to give you a heads up that we're doing this that we're engaged in it Either myself or FOSCA or Scott will be presenting at the individual NPA meetings in February possibly late January, but I think mostly in February But did want to hold just a couple minutes. I know y'all are We're running a little behind on the agenda Just to see if you've had any immediate reactions or thoughts around what our priorities for Burlington where our our greatest needs and then secondary to that if you know of either That you represent or that you feel We might have missed or not be aware of in the city that you want to make sure that we're Connecting with directly and asking for feedback and input on What our priorities for the city and I don't know if I thought explicit about it, but basically the the needs assessment we do in the feedback we receive from folks will dictate and direct how we expend the funds that we receive through the federal government as well as how we prioritize our our efforts our time Thanks so much Just a couple thoughts one is that it's mid-January at this point either Wards have held their January meetings or have planned their agendas We also have a big election coming up in March. So the February meeting is out for a lot of folks We I don't want to speak for the NPA other folks here But we generally need a little bit more warning than this to get this onto an agenda And in in the spirit of actually giving people time to plan to come to an NPA and give their feedback We really need time So just want to like I don't know if we can get this on the agenda in word 5 before February 12th I think it's incredibly unlikely because our meeting is tomorrow So just want to have full disclosure about that and if you haven't chatted with folks at Burlington Housing Authority buildings I'm sure they would really love to share their experiences. They have been tremendously neglected By all of the entities that should be paying attention to them and are really feeling a lot of the struggle that I'm sure you're seeing elsewhere Any other comments? Right a quick question. This is more specific to the grants themselves Can they go only towards new housing projects or can they go to like permit or zoning reform or anything like that? That's a great question. I Will own I don't have a lot of expertise that's been in my role for a couple months So gaining and growing in that regard as well as I've inherited what is happening today versus what things are from moving forward So I could look into that my general impression is that the intention is less towards You know internal funding right for Things and yet in as much as the funds maybe don't need to go there as much as the community can identify barriers to Housing so I think maybe if I'm inferring what you're asking is that it's not just about building housing. It's also about how How are we using the housing we have? What is the parameters around? gaming housing or Creatively changing up our existing resources and such. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you And then if I may and Lena that's a good point and I'm wondering Rebecca if Maybe we don't do a presentation What we can do is we can be there to hand some handouts out at the beginning that people can take home and fill the survey Out on their own time. I do know at one point. We had some handouts with some physical dots Maybe we can hand those out at the meeting and people at their leisure can Put their inputs in and then we can get that data back to you Rebecca Thank You Rebecca any further comments or questions on this topic Thank you for your presentation To the overview of the Vermont open meeting law and best practices and I'll be a post gun scout Just quickly maybe going with that. Is that all right? You think? Yeah We'll just you know, we didn't really have a major presentation plan for this And I know with timing, you know, maybe we can we'll just take a brief look into this You know, we do have a link to the Vermont Secretary of State guidelines Which does contain an exhaustive Explanation of open meeting laws. I know there has been a summary of open meeting laws discussed previously We're certainly happy to try to answer any questions tonight if people have them you know a big rule of thumb for me so that An MPA doesn't cross the line if you have real questions about whether something violates an open meeting law stop Delay it ask for feedback. We can speak certainly speak with the city attorney's office if we can't answer that But with that if there's just any basic questions about open meeting law, we're happy to address those Yeah, and before we end this I'm just gonna add one or two other things that when We'll need to receive agendas and meeting minutes to comply with Vermont open meeting law But if there's any questions before that we can answer those There's a hand up on the screen Dale, do you have your hand up? Yes, so from my understanding as long as you do not go into anything substantive That is planned to be on the agenda during your steering committee meeting then it does not need to follow open meeting requirements again, that means that your steering committee meeting is Namely solely for the purpose of planning the next meeting putting agenda items on but that you shouldn't be engaging in any Large debate or discussion about those items that would be you know about their content That would be the business of the body of the NPA So for example At our last steering committee meeting we talked quite a bit about how to update our bylaws And we talked about what we would want to bring to the NPA to discuss You know, we have like word six has bylaws that were adopted I don't know when that are in existence right now and we talked about whether we should Just use those and amend them or whether we should Start fresh with the sample that Seeto had provided We did not post that as an open meeting. It was you know, three of us on a zoom I'm wondering if that should have somehow been posted and if so, I don't think I have any idea how we would have done that Thank you Dale. Yeah, this is one of those ones where it is It's tough and the NPAs are kind of a unique situation I would say that that type of discussion should be held at an open-born meeting We are starting getting to some of those substantive decisions You know, it's you know weak and we can help you with this You can warn a steering committee meeting if you would like and just as long as the public is warned and is able to attend that meeting You could do that as well, but I would For it for the steering committee meetings that are that are that are not warned I think the best policy would say we are going to discuss changes to our Our by-laws at the next meeting and then leave the discussion at that like yes or no Would be by the best course of action One thing that I feel is that we as a steering committee have an obligation to facilitate the NPA meeting efficiently and with the by-law specifically, I know that we had a similar conversation and We thought that the best way to facilitate the conversation is We had to plan a little bit of what our proposed changes were and how we would talk about it So to the point there there was some discussion, but it was to not to Stop discussion at the NPA meeting. It was rather to ensure we were facilitating and introducing Discussion from the NPAs because I feel that if we come kind of unprepared to talk about it as a steering committee That doesn't really open the floor for a great conversation from the NPA as a whole I agree. I don't I don't super have a question there. I just wanted to kind of highlight that is It you know complicates the gray area a little bit That's exactly the situation we were in Lauren. Thanks for describing it so well Sure, let's we'll get some clarification here Eric Ramakrishnan from the city attorney's office the I Guess what I'll say is if you're going beyond just agenda setting Your meetings should be warned and you can't take any action on something that wasn't warned so You can it's not to say you can't discuss If it was a warned meeting, it's not to say you can't discuss substance of items But you can't take action on substance of items unless it was warned So if you think you might talk about substantive things that your steering committee meeting just warned the meeting And if you didn't warn in an issue don't take action on it. Does that make sense? I Okay, what does action so the safest course is just to warn your steering committee meetings Okay, so the warning is you post the agenda on Okay, so So Substantive is you're going beyond just setting the agenda Setting the agenda that the public meeting law specifically says you can do other than at a warrant meeting If you're doing anything beyond setting an agenda, it's substantive Does that answer your question? So we had a situation where we wanted to discuss the MOU with UVM That is being discussed right now across the way We had to have a conversation as to whether we wanted to invite UVM or not Is that substantive? It's the agenda item is conversation with with with the city planners and Ceto about About the MOU The the city planner and and and Ceto said do you want to invite the university to attend? Does that become substantive? I would say it probably quickly becomes substantive So if if if do we want to invite UVM yes or no, okay great But that discussion is almost inevitably going to cut cut to the merits, right and then it's become substantive. So Yes, yes, yes And and and taking action is taking a vote that has some practical impact on it. So We'll go with that Sam followed by Ryan. I know at the last all-words meeting we discussed kind of the responsibility of MPAs and the steering committee and what that relationship to the city looks like and I think this is Is a Continuous confusion at least for me and maybe this is just because I'm new to my position But I feel like This just gives us a party hat and it's just like bring presenters to Your neighborhoods have people present and then that's kind of all we would be doing as steering committee members versus Yeah, the kind of how Jonathan was saying we had this we had a discussion on if we wanted UVM to be there or not and Especially for Ward 1 That is a very sensitive thing and I have gotten that and I've been lucky enough to Get the history of what the relationship of Ward 1 and UVM is and what that city relationship is as well and I think it's yeah, I think kind of pertaining to what Jonathan was saying there should maybe be a Different definition of what's the substance of it is because I feel like that clouds What steering committee members are even allowed to do for their for their wards and I feel like and maybe that's just me Yeah Load to belabor the point, but it strikes me that just setting an agenda would be in and of itself Substantial like you know Let's say I really am in favor of this park and we have a crowded meeting next meeting And I'm gonna really argue and debate to get this park on the agenda And like that's just in of itself setting the agenda But now it's become this whole debate and so I don't or maybe I don't like a project And I'm like oh we can push that to next month So Even the setting of the agenda. I mean it just strikes me that we should warn steering committee meetings But then that becomes quite cumbersome It would be the best practice certainly sure just do it. Yeah And on the same token If the NPA is really just a receptacle for city agencies to come and check the box of public engagement Then what is the point of having a steering committee at all? If we're gonna have the community meetings that are independent from the city structure Then we should have community meetings that are light enough and not bureaucratic So that we can actually do the thing that we're here to do if like the closer we get to this requiring the threshold of XYZ qualification to meet standards Oh sure, sorry about that just the the closer we get to needing to to warn the steering committee Meeting which will speak for myself is already really hard to play and like are we inviting people to these meetings? I don't think people want to come to these meetings. That's why they're not on the steering committee We creating structures that aren't helpful isn't actually furthering democracy it's just wasting people's time and The last thing I want to do is waste people's time because I want them to come to my NPA So I just I'm struggling to understand like what is the goal here is the goal? Transparency because I think we can achieve that Without making a million rules for how we actually Run the meetings and make the agendas and decide how the NPAs are are right and like if we're So sensitive to individual NPA culture that we're worried about having the same bylaws like Why how are we getting tangled in this for agendas which is or so much more Related to the stuff of the meeting than the bylaws Just feels like the standard is not unique not uniformly applied And I feel the more we talk about this the less I understand how to conduct myself as a steering committee member I'm gonna before I move on to Lauren online. I'm gonna defer to Charlie. Gene only here former Ward 3 steering committee member Okay, so I think it would be helpful if the city were to say why is this suddenly an issue with the city a Last time the city brought this up was about 12 years ago When Gene Bergman from the city attorney's office came to this came to an all-wards meeting and said it was crucial for the NPAs To follow the open meeting law Okay, which later I spoke to Deb Markowitz the secretary of state and she kind of laughed frankly But so it would be helpful if the city were to tell us What has happened to suddenly rise this to the level of needing to be seriously addressed at the NPAs at this time Thank you Mr. Attorney It's on the agenda and I was asked a question and I answered the question based on my understanding of state law That's really all I can say in response to that question But All right, thank you. We'll go carbon that's sorry about that my vision is kind of bad Thank you one thing that I Because I want to have and this relates to what you're what you're all discussing here is Because I want to have a committee of people Work on the meals But I'm told that we have to have channel 17 attend a subcommittee on meal preparation selection A little I don't think Because I'm questioning So I think subcommittees They can be warned with an agenda like I can say this is what we're gonna discuss the public is welcome to come Cook with us if they would like or discuss the agenda the other meal, but I don't Be told that channel 17 has to attend every subcommittee Was a little bit shocking to me. So I would appreciate the if you would tell me that's true I'm Carmen. I I'm not sure maybe we must understood each other But I think when you were talking about subcommittees. I understood in the context of subcommittees working on bylaws And other aspects that are business of the public body So I think in that sense those meetings would need to be warned because they would need to follow up in meeting law But I don't know that So I Think that has to do with accessibility I'm unsure maybe Scott can speak to this, you know for something a subcommittee, you know channel 17 wouldn't have to attend those Really, they're there to promote the you know the main MPA meetings and so we're appreciative of that partnership, you know, even here tonight. It wasn't necessarily Mandated that this be recorded and televised. I'm happy it is but it wasn't mandated. So with the subcommittee. No, you don't need to have Channel well CCTV or you know to be there as well. So don't worry about that But again, I will sort of you know, go on with the city attorney's office is advising to us Probably best practice is to warn you steering committee meetings. I'll go with say with Lena I don't think there's a lot of people who really want to attend So I don't expect you'll get a full house, but at least you'll know you protected yourself, which is good So we're gonna go with Lauren and I think it looked like Erica and then Molly or did I get the two of you backwards? Lauren To vote us on and they are voting us with the responsibility that we are steering what is on the agenda and to the point of you know, people probably want to type fine, but it I just I View some of this is fundamentally changing what the steering committee is doing and that is something if that is going to Happen if the city is telling us we must do this to comply with open meeting law fight. I And this is just far too gray and fuzzy for me to feel comfortable with How we act going forward? So I just wanted to say that And since Lauren and my comment last time I'm just gonna say Likewise, we've had lots of steering committee meetings in my living room Yes, and when you talk about the bylaws kind of reflecting the ethos of each individual MBA I'm not having a publicly warned open to the public meeting in my living room So it would change how we meet significantly If we ever wanted to meet in person we have to find a place to do that and that's kind of a big pain We can try to get some clarity on everything you've all been bringing up and get back to you about it Yeah, thank you for all the issues are raising Hi everyone, I'm Erica Faulkner. I share her pronouns. I came a little late. Sorry, um, and I'm with Ward 2 on Decatur Street I guess I just had a couple questions I was unable to attend last all words just because they were kind of announced last minute And I had flights booked that day So I'm wondering if you guys could tell me how long should we be warning or Um, warning the meetings 48 hours 48 hours. Okay Typically You could share the agenda with staff and they could post it online. That's the primary way that the meeting is warned You're supposed to technically post the agenda at the location where the meeting will be held into other places nearby so I'm on my town's planning commission and if I post an agenda the laundry Matt is open 24 hours a day and there's a bulletin board there. That's one of my two places. The post office is another one That that's that counts if that makes some sense I had one other question off of your definition if We're meeting to set an agenda. How do we have an agenda to give? Them like that's just like logistically. I just don't understand. Sorry. I'm not trying to be finicky at all I promise. I'm just yeah, and again I mean if you are purely setting agenda the agenda, okay, and you're not venturing into substantive issues Then it does not have to be warned It's just that it would be a best practice if you think that the conversation is going to become substantive I'm recommended as the best practice that you should warn to protect yourself And then also I I'll think my question through a little bit more actually I just wanted to make comment on to both of you guys I Obviously the whole Idea of going into our steering committee meeting to set an agenda is to just set the agenda But I think that a lot of I'm just speaking for our word, but a lot of it is spontaneous the conversations that we have are spontaneous So there's Really no way that we could warn something that we don't know is actually going to happen I that just is confusing to me And I appreciate that I didn't write the law. I just want to be clear And And that's why I'm just saying as a best practice my recommendation to you and I understand it may be more complicated than I'm imagining But my recommendation to you would be if you warn it then you've covered yourself Just go on then Molly. Oh, I'm actually Molly had her hand up earlier. I couple questions so we on our NPA website we post steering committee meetings The steering committee meets on the last Thursday of every month at 7 p.m Is that sufficient to have it publicly posted in that way? I guess there would need to be information about where but is that sufficient? It and you should identify what's going to be on the agenda and if the signing agenda item is to set the agenda for the next meeting I think that's fine that doesn't Give you permission to take action on a different topic, but it gives you You know you've invited the public into the conversation And are there examples of other groups? That are affiliated with the city or not that would not fall under this type of open meeting laws for something like a Steering committee meeting. I'm just wondering if there's a if there's another way to define the NPA steering committees To make it possible to have the type of planning conversations and other discussions that have that happen more spontaneously at steering committee meetings without having to Have a warned agenda listing them first. I mean off the top of my head. I I don't have any Feedback on that. I apologize We really and we understand that it's your job to tell us what the rules are and it's our job to decide whether to follow them I Just want to say from an equity perspective the more this gets burdensome the harder it is for people to do I'll do respect. I'm not retired And I you know, I know that a lot of people who are on the steering committees of their NPAs are able to give a lot of time which is amazing and a lot of people are not and The more we make this a challenging thing to do well From the perspective of rule following in addition to the perspective of community building the less we are inviting people of diverse identities and Economic situations to actually participate and that I think is to the detriment of the NPA and the detriment of our community So just like want to encourage It's it's been really unclear to me over the course of this conversation Like what are we protecting ourselves from and like I'm a volunteer like what are you going to do to me if I like don't Warn my media like it just it doesn't feel like we're We're having this conversation seated in a reality that we are all living in and I I'm gonna have a lot less Trouble following the rules if I understand why they exist I Think everything everyone's bringing up is you know really important and I would urge you to to bring these up These conversations and these thoughts up to your city counselors because NPAs were formed through a city council resolution, right? the city council also Passed a resolution that is now prompting all this by-law work. There's only so much that we can do right to like follow What do they have? required of NPAs, but I think it's a really important question right like you know having become having formed As kind of an entity related to the city a commission, I believe It complicates things I think but I think what you're bringing up is a really important point I'm sure your city counselors would be interested to hear I Guess How does the planning commission the development review board? How do they set their agendas? How does the council for that matter set their agenda? You know if we decided that setting an agenda is Cause for public meeting law to be invoked, you know, there's a ton of Meetings upstairs that happen all the time and I haven't been warned about any of their agenda setting meetings That doesn't require a response. It just you know, they're well, they're not accomplishing much upstairs, but you know separate issue they can set an agenda at least Yeah, it's tough and I suspect, you know, they're following the advice of the city attorney and they're keeping it to Specific discussions of what's going to be on the agenda people You know, it's really a planning commission that level you get a lot of training on on open and public meeting laws I've been on can we get that same advice? I think I think that's a good That's I think that's what we're gonna try to do here and get some more training. There's some really good information on the Secretary of State site You know, I've been on appointed boards before as well and You know, we in the case of one of we were advised it was a housing board like not to discuss housing Yeah, with anybody outside, you know outside of even who was on the committee. So and that's just what we did. So You know, you can keep it just to the agenda and I mean it is hard because you're gonna want to talk Sorry not to engage in it back and forth But like if you're putting things on or setting the even the order of the agenda, you know You know, if it's a long meeting you could put something at 1130 if you wanted to get knocked off like the setting of the agenda I mean if you're really not discussing anything then it can just be an email, you know, I mean like Then like here's somebody dreams it up here's the agenda and there's no debate over it So, sorry, yeah, no, yeah I'll name further question. I looks like Hank you have a discussion or a question comment Yeah, I find this whole Amen I don't know the history of the conflict that have led to the city's perceived need to Find everybody by some very very specific and rigid Practices policies and and procedures But it It's not It's not the kind of Jumping into I was hoping to be doing but if I joined the NPA and If it becomes just a bureaucratic morass I'm not Just hard to hear how far it's gone to we're in it, you know litigious society, but The idea the spirit of the NPA that I understand from reading about its history Is exactly the opposite of that. This is not about, you know, how could I screw my neighbor best? it's about how can I know my neighbor better and the the rigidity and the requirements Don't add to that. They take a track from it Just my feeling Sarah Yeah, I just want to I guess the way I'm understanding we're trying to get a sense of in terms of this agenda setting as you know, what we'll do as in our own steering meeting and It's bringing up the game yet to know everyone's familiar with that, but you only get asked yes or no question And I don't know if that is how the rule is Supposed to be followed in terms of setting the agenda, of course, that's kind of the Baseline there's always going to be a little bit of conversation I you know, I guess When you make rules you expect that some of them will be spent maybe not completely broken, but we obviously have to Conversate a little bit to be able to be on the same page. And I think more brought up, you know, we are hearing the agenda but would that Kind of does that sound Correct in terms of being able to call the rule and when we're having our steering committee meeting Sort of Yeah, I mean the bottom line is in the reason I keep using the term best practices We're getting into sort of legal gray areas here There aren't always clear yes or no answers to some of these legal questions And I just want to be clear the city isn't trying to impose some new bureaucratic rules on you The question was asked under state open meeting law Somebody said do we have to warn our meetings if we're going to get into substantive discussions of the issues? And if you're going to get into substantive discussions of the issues then I would say yes, the best practice To make sure your coloring within the lines is is to warn the meetings But I'm not trying to impose a new rule on you.  It's it's baked into the system Racism And you know, and these are these are challenges that that we were wrestling with And I just appreciate so much to push back that I'm here, especially Particularly for folks who have maybe haven't You know, there are many examples, I mean, you know Thank you session You know, it just goes all the way down the list is just all the way that you can exclude people are making difficult You know public hearing, you know, let me talk to you for two minutes just two minutes And I'm not going to respond. So there's all kinds of different ways that We have to navigate And you know in some ways, you know, you know using the same process I think sometimes these some of these rules and I'm no lawyer in the city has plenty of But sometimes you you can go in and actually vote to to actually either Like supersede or or to circumvent or I guess the word I'm looking for is to suspend if you will Any or all of as a democratic body There's just ways to get around it. I guess is what I'm saying I'm not trying to lecture you by doing anything like that. I just wanted to really express just a deep appreciation What a pushback that I'm hearing Because you know for so often for so long we've seen so many people just you know has limits just go Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they just go along with the program without giving it any thought with about, you know Think about how many people are actually being excluded from the process Or how difficult it makes it for many people to participate in the process. So I'm I'm 100% with The folks who have expressed concern And I hope that this that are a lot of way. I'm with board one I hope our folks continue to to struggle to into push back into into question authority into In the challenge when it doesn't make sense particularly for your constituents, so thank you Thank you reverend Hughes Yeah, as I was saying, I think that we've had a very robust discussion. It was very encouraging to me personally I think that what we saw here tonight is really evokes the spirit and intent of what the npa's are designed to be And I'm glad that we were able to have this discussion Seeing all the different points and all the potential challenges that they're riding loose They think very clearly illustrates the point of why ward three has taken the position that we are an unincorporated association of private individuals But based on the discussion that we feared tonight It would appear that the city is still taking the position that we are Opposed part of the city government and I think that a plain Reading of the resolution would suggest otherwise. So I guess the question I would have for our city attorney Is what is the legal basis upon which the city is making a claim that the npa's are in fact a part of the city government under the cito umbrella and I'm asking this because if The npa's are Do fall into that then yes, well, they do need to follow the open meeting law But if they are an unincorporated association of private individuals the open meeting law would not apply But I would hope that as a community organization They would certainly adopt those principles of transparency and do their best to comply But I'm just kind of curious upon what the legal basis is for the city's claim here so I feel like I'm perceiving that this feels like a little bit of a debate between y'all and me and I didn't mean for it to become that My goal was just to give my best legal answer to a legal question that was posed. And so if I just want to Say that to begin But I guess just very briefly and I don't want to go much further into this because I'm not trying to debate anyone here The npa's were created by city council action and that's the bottom line here And I'll just leave it at that I appreciate the answer I'm just going to simply say that the city as a whole is Seems to be taking this position now This is now the second meeting in a row where we've had a representative from the city's attorney's office Who has not been able to speak to this so that kind of suggests to me that the city has not really prepared So if we're going to continue to have this debate I would ask that the city come prepared to answer these questions the next time because otherwise We're just going to be going around and around in circles Chris thank you for that and and I'll speak with my leadership at cito and and you know Maybe we can have something more clarification You know under our understanding our role here at cito and our role as staff is simply to support the npa's You know we were in essence we work for you and it shouldn't be looked at is is is any other way But certainly I think we can work to get a clarification of the city and this is something that certainly you can talk to more More openly with your elected officials Thank you scott. Um, so I think we've had a robust discussion. We can move on to the next agenda item Uh, you know, I kind of feel like these two topics have led together so I'd like to make a motion to uh You know skip over this since they're kind of together an instance of time Um, actually I'll as a cherry probably shouldn't make the motion. So I'll ask for a motion Uh motion to move on to maryl candidate forum update Okay, okay, so No, all right. Oh, right. There's a resolution. Sorry my my yeah, I didn't realize that this was the item attached to the resolution so um So I think the resolution, uh Is included in the packet. I know that it came out of ward one originally We took the ball and ran one of that at wards two and three and also adopted it. I think verbatim And I would now defer to the folks from ward one to speak to that as the originator of the resolution Okay, thank you and I'll be quick. Um I crafted a lot of this alina crafted a lot of it um to for clarity what this is is it's it's a It's a piece of writing To be submitted to the city council for them to do something with They can they can rewrite it. They can It's not our it's not a resolution really from the npa. It's a proposal that the city council Make a resolution to do this um and specifically Based on based on the founding document of the npa is the um The proposal is in this resolution That the city council and npas in some form Uh meet to establish some processes and criteria for determining the municipal issues on which npas must be consulted For advice and input prior to city council funds And I think the this was motivated This has been a conversation for a while, but it was motivated to begin with by what motivated a lot of this conversation was that That many many npa members steering committee members and residents had no idea that the city council was voting on something that Directly affected the operations of the npas um and it and and more often Decisions get made at at city council meetings that npas Don't have any input to the npas were created for the purpose of of providing input to the city council So really all this is is a is a request that that some uh that a process get put be put in place And and this is a city council resolution mind you it's not an npa resolution But that's that the city council with support from the npas puts a process in place to decide whether an issue is of Is substantive of enough that npa should be consulted before the city council votes Um And We still have we've talked about it three times at ward one, but we haven't gotten to a vote yet Just because we've had more important things on the agenda But ward two Ward two three did have a conversation about this and there were a couple of comments Jess you had a comment that npa isn't really Totally reflective representative of the community. That's absolutely true nevertheless The city council established the npas for this reason So the fact that we don't really represent the whole community is important, but it doesn't Prevent this from going forward what it what it means is we have to do a better job of getting more people in And milo. I think had a comment about The fact that even the city council isn't kept abreast of when decisions are being made. It's very hard to know That too isn't really germane to this kind of a resolution. So I bring this forward And thank you lina for updating the language a bit Um, and I don't really know I would propose Because this is this is something that we would send to city council for them to do with what they will It could be every every npa votes for it It could be that the steering committee votes for it It could be that one individual writes it and sends it to the to the city council It doesn't really matter. We just want to make sure that this is a way that the city council Get something that they can have some consideration about I'm wide open in terms of next month. We will vote on this at more and more I think it would be great if other if other npa's voted on it if you don't So be it, but it just it just makes a louder voice when more when more residents speak on a subject It's it shouldn't be controversial It's really very simple. It's Is it you know the city council we we do this thing and and actually One of our city councilor candidates raised the point that even today there is a there is a component to city council The ordinances that says that any development in the community has to come to the npa before it goes on with The planning planning commission one of one of the boards And that's great, but it's very limited In terms of of it. So there's the precedence of that This is really just to decide what else besides those should come to npa's and that's really all there is to it I'm happy to answer questions or we can move on Was this intended to be a discussion item or were we going to vote to adopt this resolution as all wards? I would I would be thrilled to vote on it as a resolution for all wards I wouldn't demand it, but it would be great. It would just add a little bit more A little bit more weight to it If someone were to make a motion to Adopt it we could have a more substantive discussion I will make a motion to adopt it All right We have a motion on the table to adopt the resolution Relating to the relationship between city officials and the neighborhood plan assemblies as introduced by ward one and adopted by ward one two and three npa's Yield the florida mr. Chapel so called the sponsor of the resolution We'll rip we'll wave the reading to Yes, wait rave the reading too I've said my piece. All right going online. I don't know who popped their hand up first. It looks like dale, so I think both Nancy and Carmen had their hands up before I did just not electromically Um, I think who I do is my solution is I'm not ready. I I'm really sorry. I just Can't vote. I I would have to stay in the building because I just don't know what it is And I'm also wondering Just went through a conversation about properly warning things How did they warn that solution a little bit? It's in the agenda. It's on the agenda. Uh, obviously agenda but not as a vote. Um, Yeah I can't speak to that. I'd have to it seems like maybe we shouldn't vote on it because folks haven't received it but Move it forward in our npa I've seen like a fair assessment of what's going on. I would love to vote on it, but if people haven't read it Um, we should vote on right now. We have a motion on the table to adopt. Um, if you are looking to dispose that we could Chair would certainly entertain a motion to postpone or to table the postpone discussion If you withdraw your second, I withdraw my second. All right All right, motion has been withdrawn. Uh, and there will be no vote on this nor will there be any discussion because there is not an active vote motion on the table Moving on well, I mean If people have questions about That the origin of this and and our concerns about it or your concerns about I I mean, I think this is part of what this meeting is about So I I just would be interested I'm happy to entertain discussion typically in a uh under robert's rules and parliamentary procedure You have to have an active motion before you enter into discussion But since we're moving in a little more informal today, uh, let's not make it any more cumbersome Than it has to be parliamentarians absent today All right. Uh, so yes, if there are questions or discussions, it sounded like you may have some comments that you would like to share carol Anybody online have any questions or comments? I'd be happy to give like the 32nd digest Um, the what it's about is it's really about Trying to establish It is honestly pretty straightforward once you get past all the italics and stuff Um It's about trying to establish a set of guidelines for city council and for city administration Um about when an issue is is is important enough that nps should be consulted on it And presumably that um those guidelines would be written With the support of the nps But it would be a way for city council, for example to look at a proposed vote And say or propose resolution And say, um, does this meet does this meet the criteria that it should be that we should get input from nps before we vote on it That's the idea It's you know, it's just setting up some a process for Uh defining when nps should be consulted before votes are made at city council And 90 of the votes They could just say no it's irrelevant You just want to make sure that those the ones that matter actually get to the nps for conversation right Uh quick comment. I think it's great. Love it would support it if it was before us as for a vote Uh april 1st 2024 is that was just a snarky response to january 31st excellent Great because I was like there's no chance at l Of course, but again, this is for the this is for city council. Yeah. Yeah, whatever date they want. Yeah They often do Chris I appreciate the spirit behind all of it and I would just I guess I just the thought bubble it arises in me is um, it just if it goes forward as the council does have to be really Careful about thinking through the ramifications of it You know, there is a requirement for developers to come to mpa's for development in our neighborhood Which in the in broad strokes is great. However in in my word, we've gotten into the situation where We've had to Accepted developers being on the agenda agenda multiple times. You know, the project has had small to the public's eye inconsequential adjustments But it's triggered that city requirement and just has taken up time in our agenda where we didn't feel like We wanted to create that much time for this development, but it felt like we had to get in the environment so A warning that we should think it through how how it actually comes into action so that it's using our time well That makes perfect sense. It looks like lauren has a question online is does karmann I was raising on behalf of karmann Okay Lord I think the point that was just made is a very good point because Then you're telling the city Right sound. I mean, I have read this resolution So I have no idea but it sounds like it's going to require charter change It's going to require It's going to end up mandating what's on our agenda if that's what you're talking about. So I am very cautious. I look forward to reading it, but um, That would be some of the reasons that I would not support it I don't think it's better not require a charter change I don't think that this in any way leaves the city in terms of requirements with the state Or with our charter I think this is really just an agreement between city council and nba's as to what's important to know It it shouldn't add anything that the nba's wouldn't want to add it I would just say that if you look at the committees of the city right now, they're advisory And if you wanted to make them actually carry weight, you would have to have charter change So I think that would be a good thing for you to just Just check out When you're working on it It's just something to consider. Okay. I don't think that this I don't think nba's become any more than advisory from this I don't think that changes it. I don't think it gives nba's any more weight All it does is it gets it might get issues That ought to come to nba's in front of nba's That's the goal anyways thank I looked at the agenda. What was this resolution from one board one? In the agenda packet Because I think as Carmen I couldn't find it Um, there were two items that lean to yes, it is in the agenda packet Yeah, Hank. It's it's it's on page three of the agenda packet. All right. Thank you Any further questions I just wanted to comment say I think that the spirit and intent of the resolution is to promote a better understanding At working relationship with the city council and sitting down With a couple of counselors may prove beneficial in that regard So perhaps in a future all wards we make it wish to consider To invite us representatives from the council to to have that conversation in the spirit of cooperation All right, uh, moving on to Moving on to the mayoral candidate forum I was the one that I think brought that up after speaking with tom darin thaw from ward one and back in the november meeting Tom and I have since spoken Neither one of us really have the bandwidth at this point to kind of lead the charge on that and there didn't seem to be a lot of You know enthusiasm to for to to move that forward at at the all awards level Speaking as an individual steering committee member I think the intent from my bringing it up was Recognizing that the mayoral candidates have a lot of events to tend to to begin with And expecting them to go to potentially six different npa meetings may not be a reasonable Expectation or assumption So the thought was if we had had a since the mayor's race is a city-wide race the thought was to have an all wards meeting to Make it easier for the for the candidate so that everyone could come and participate But unless there's you know, some folks here that want to take the ball and run with it tonight I think that that ship is probably sailed at this point Okay, it doesn't sound like we're gonna have a mayoral debate for the all wards level moving on May I ask a question? I'm just curious to know which wards are In the absence of an all wards mayoral debate, which wards are planning to have their own Mayoral forum or or debate as part of their February meetings Is anyone planning to I think they're I think they're planning on having about I heard six or seven different Mayor debates already. So I think those the first ones tonight the first ones tonight, which we're missing I know, but I think they're live streaming it. So we can always go back and watch But I think seeing that it feels less permanent to have it happen here. I'd rather focus on like Putting our limited resources and energy into like city council races or Ballad initiatives that don't seem to get enough coverage At least that's my thought process I have a related question Because we got an email from will emmonds asking for time on an agenda as a mayoral candidate And I would love to get some guidance or other nba's during committee members thoughts on How how to best respond to a request like that from an individual candidate when other candidates haven't Make that request or or expressed interest Mr. Jonathan we um We very often and I and this isn't specifically about mayoral candidates But when this sort of thing happens, we very often invite them to come to speak out And they get there two or three minutes at the beginning of the meeting to say whatever they want to say Any further questions or discussions on this agenda item? All right seeing none. We'll move on to the Next item, which is the owners of action items from the november all wards meeting Review the action items from the last meeting and assign owners to action item from those missing owners Scott or both guy are you prepared to speak to that? I'm certainly not Yes, so I think um, this was a request I received from at least one steering committee member Um, but basically you can see your agenda packet page four The bottom those were the identified action items from the last meeting um And I believe Um We had assigned some owners to those but just want to review with everyone You know what the expectations are Uh for all those action items, and I don't know jonathan if you have anything else you wanted to add to that I Yeah, I mean I don't I didn't recognize any any owners after the last meeting So it would be great to put names next to these Definitely. Do you want to take the lead or? I can also I I think I I think maybe an in a steering committee person with cedo could do Or maybe rachel should be part of it because she took the you know, she took the I think rachel was just there to facilitate I think from now on it She's not going to necessarily be involved Based upon the action just take and I think we can safely remove the third from the bottom item to host a mayoral debate So yeah, I mean I I'd be happy to get in touch if we want to just kind of go through these and see What makes sense?  It's just in process. Maybe just start at the top and read down have a brief discussion and go through this I think that the return to the all words meeting is important Clearly we have some bigger issues that do need to be discussed all words at the city level I think the question that really needs to be is how frequently do we want to have these meetings? And when would we like to have the next one? So I'll open the floor up to discussion and questions about that topic Jonathan Just talking about everything. I'm wondering in carol. You're probably the better person to talk about this because you were involved Much more involved in the last round, but I'm just wondering whether there should be a representative from each Ward or each npa Group that would get together to work on Work on this sort of thing work on planning the meetings. Maybe doing some non substantive agenda setting Um and just but but maybe it should be a A um a subset of the steering committees of just rep from every ward to get together and kind of work through this sort of thing I'm gonna try to Apply what I learned from the last meeting and repeat back what you had said as I understood it So it sounds like what I'm hearing perhaps is to create a steering committee for the all awards meeting for one from each person To address some of these or is that not your intent that sounds great Okay I love the energy and I would be happy to help support that I do want to hesitate against having it be so strict where it's we need to have one person from each ward Just recognizing that some wards have only one member other wards have like six or seven of us So it might be a lot more effort for smaller wards Um to have like someone dedicated coming whereas maybe a larger ward could maybe put up two people Obviously making sure it's still democratic and we're listening to that but You know just making sure like Wearing the burden evenly and it's not falling on to smaller wards heavier Um, we are at the end of the allotted time on the agenda So we have a few more agenda items I'll entertain a motion to suspend the rule so that we can finish up with the last two or three items here Okay Thank you I do We can uh, if you'd like to make a motion hank, uh, whatever you feel would be an appropriate time frame I think would be open for consideration I'll propose 15 All right And I'll in favor Any opposed All right motion carries Okay So back to the action item discussion the return of the all wards mpa Meeting it sounds like there's some discussion to do in all wards steering committee Who is next in queue? I'm not seeing any hands. I don't see any I guess I would just make a suggestion I mean in the past what's happened is that I have met like with our cito liaison and and set up meetings and agendas with sam And then solicited Suggestions from people about agendas and then people came as they could Maybe what we if we can leave today with this item is maybe one or two people would be Interested in volunteering to just take it the next step for us Rather than us trying to thrash out a process I'll volunteer to help facilitate the all wards But I just would like to say that speaking as an individual I'd like to see it because I don't want to be having A different time every month, you know same date same time consistency for planning just like the rest of the wards So for a point of information To the folks in wards four and seven my understanding is that previously that board had been meeting on the fourth wednesday And now i'm hearing that that may have changed to the first wednesday. Is that a correct understanding? What is the standard meeting time for wards four and seven? Fourth wednesday, okay, and ward eight is now the fourth thursday Yeah next week my recollection when I last looked at the calendar the first and third wednesdays of the month are typically uh So maybe the first wednesday Well, just be the third I guess right because the first one's in connection. We'll figure it out So would you be would you be willing to I would however my work? I actually coordinate um a monthly Cocktail hour in mont pillier on the first wednesday of every month So I could not do a first wednesday But I would love to maybe send around a doodle poll and find a time So we don't have to spend this meeting discussing that that works lovely All right, you will take it from here. All right be in touch um Defining the relationship with the npa in the city of berlington. I think that that's probably a larger conversation I'd like to make the suggestion that perhaps, you know our next meeting we invite the counselors to come And we devote a portion of the lion's share of the meeting to that discussion perhaps Any other thoughts on that? Okay Next on the list is form an npa bylaws and resolutions committee We've already been provided with a set of samples from our folks at cito Is this still something that folks feel that need to pursue or do we just want to roll with the process as it's been articulated thus far We're all in the process I think we've got enough tools All right I'm going to set some little items that will be forthcoming that'll help us Uh On what needs to be adjusted by a lot of them what? will do Um, there was another uh, the next item was to establish a communications group if anyone has any thoughts that they'd like to share on that I didn't realize there was a google group. We weren't uh, I think boards two and three were not included in one of the Larger google groups until last week. So we might have missed a lot of communications. So I would prefer that uh I think it would be better to have the individuals subscribe to that rather than the Or in addition to Well, I'll catch up on what's happening with the communication group It is relevant to a topic that's later on the agenda that we I think we're probably going to bump because we're out of out of time So I'll connect with the group All right, so sorry is establish a communication group different from Utilize the all-word steering committee google group Because if we have the google group like I thought we were all on it And it seems like we weren't which means that it's not useful Plus we're all on it. I think you're all on it now Like is is that the communication group? Oh, I misunderstood. I thought I thought it was a group a subset of steering committee members who are working as a team to Talk about communications and outreach strategies. That's what I interpreted as that's what I also interpreted. Yes Great Sounds like that's an agenda item for the next meeting. Um I would suggest that with respect to the all-words group Maybe at least one member from each ward be given access to that. So if people come and go we can add them and avoid that I don't know who's housing that are Uh overseeing the existing group, but I believe jason from word 5 created the group. Um, but I believe He made me owner so I could add words 2 and 3 to it because they weren't part of it Um, but we can I'm open to whatever you guys think about that And there was also an earlier there was another And and all-words npa google group that I think sam created and there's some documents on the drive So I'd love for those things to be transferred. So and Delete the old one and go with the new one. Yeah, so just to make it a little easier If anyone has a password and account info for that that would be helpful because I can't enter it Um That's why I created a new google drive But if anyone can enter it or send me the files like a call to sam somebody should have sam's cell phone around So we should be able to move. I'll give sam a call Uh, I think we've had a very substantive discussion tonight about aligning the non-discrimination policies with the city of berlington So i'm not sure that we need to have any further discussion Okay, uh cedo decals ward four and seven ward eight meetings. It appears that that has been done Uh the developing of the grievance and data collection process It sounds like we're waiting for some input from the city scott and fosker working on that. So we're good there Uh, we did have a conversation about encouraging newly registered voters to join mpa there was a suggestion I think that was made. Um, I do know that we have at least one steering committee member uh here tonight that also Moonlights on the board of the registration of voters. I don't know if said individual can speak to that Yes, I couldn't speak to that So I reached out to uh, the city clerk sarah mount guvray to ask about if this is something that we Would be allowed to do So she was able to confirm. Sorry. I'm just pulling up the email She says that she believes that it would be legally fine and she's looking to double check that There's not anything specifically called out at statute about sending out the letters that would say that it's not The only caveat of course is that they would like to have approval authority over what is being included with the registration letters so It would basically if we Design a postcard for instance or something like that. We would share it with With the clerk's office and they would say yes. No, and then that would get the ball rolling So I'm happy. I think this kind of constitutes a further discussion because there's also the discussion about funding with this specifically uh, but I'm happy to kind of be the owner and maybe If we have time in the next steering all boards, maybe it would be good to further discuss this in a little bit more detail It sounds like this might be a good first agenda item for the, uh communication subcommittee once it has been established at the next group um And then we've already dealt with the mayoral debate. Uh, we've already dealt with the google group The possibility of hosting community events that seems like a pretty open and wide-ranging thing. So I will open the floor questions comments concerns I think people I think this would be great I think this would be great. Um, and per your comment about how the npa's don't necessarily reflect our communities Um, is a reminder that the npa's used to receive more funding and it's really hard to put on events without funding It's also really hard to provide food and child care and transportation without funding. Um, and I I think it's worth advocating for more funding because then we can do our Thing that we're supposed to do better. Um, and that's important so I mean if we want to if we want to run events with no budget power to us, but It seems like this is part of it. Maybe a broader broader effort to get some more material support from the city I would definitely urge I would I would voice that concern with the city councilors because I I believe that that is up to their their discretion Yeah, it could require a resolution but I wonder I mean, we do get funding now and maybe expanding it or It might have somebody talking to a city council on how to run a resolution Um, one thing I'd love to propose kind of similar to hosting events but seeing if we could develop Um Some tabling materials and get folks to maybe table at events if every steering committee member wants to table at like one farmers market a year I think we could see a lot more Like foot traffic traffic and helping spreading the word about npa's and what they are That's going to require a lot of collaboration and discussion Right now I'm a little at capacity with work, but in the summertime I would love to You know Work on that with a couple folks if anyone's interested I'm interested so I'll work with you All right, Jessica. I think you're up for the outreach comic and Sure. Yeah, and this actually follows quite well from that and I think Um, and we don't have time to have a full discussion but I wanted to give an update and then share some ideas so as most Well, if the new folks might not not even know about this but um last year as part of The wards two and three funding allocation We use some of the money To work with a local artist to create an outreach comic that talks all about the npa's why Why people can get involved what you what you can get out of them how to find your npa And it was really intended to be an aspirational document that could get people interested and excited And to see the potential in them as well, and it's a lovely little little comic. It's about this this big 12 pages and Connect and and and then there was also a poster made from the panels The poster is a little less effective. I think just because the font's really small and I love the poster. Yeah, it's it's sweet, but you have to read it The the and the but the comic is amazing and thanks to cito. It has been translated Well, the text has been translated into nine different languages or seven seven different languages So this is a really accessible outreach tool that um right now we have in printed printed form in english we have in Both pdf and jpegs for using online And then Soon ish as soon as i have time we will get the translated Language into that document as well. So this is a really great tool that we can all be using to share Excitement about the npa's so tabling at farmers markets and distributing and so I think maybe when this communications group is getting together one of the things we can talk about is how this How these can be used because there's a lot of energy and time and resources that we're put into creating these documents And we want to get them out into the world But I really want to know how all the different npa's want to receive that information Our paper copy is more efficient our digital copies that you can use on social media more useful How do you envision using the translated materials? And I think we could there's a lot we can talk about to make sure that we're using this wonderful resource effectively And also thinking about well, how does it fit into other npa branding? Like we have these images that we can use and we don't have to use it just as a comic we can use pieces of it for different things And just to help people Some brand recognition for the npa's as well Keeping in mind that each npa has its own own culture and personality and different ways of doing outreach But this is a shared tool that we can use So I just wanted to let folks know what was going on with that project and to see if you had any immediate thoughts And we can discuss it more next time. Looks like Hank does have a question online Yeah, I just want to know Is it possible for you to send out an email to all the npa members? With a copy of that A link to the comics in that way we did all know what we're talking about that would just be a very helpful thing Absolutely and that went out with a previous iteration of steering committee members But that's a really good reminder that things like that need to go out often because there are new new steering committee members who join out So I'll send that out through the new google Google group email Excellent and the other question I had was When we were again, this is from being very very new. We were told that there's a $2,500 Amount Granted by the city council to each npa each year and and I have people Had trouble staying within that and and is that what we're talking about about needing more more financial support from the city to be able to have Hopefully community events So just quickly Hank actually every ward gets 2,500 so it's four and seven Hopefully you've got five thousand dollars to use And I think it makes sense to talk to our city counselors if we if we want that to be increased Um, we've struggled at different points about with spending it all but now since we have to pay for our location of meeting And food that most of the money goes towards that Any further discussions before we entertain a motion to adjourn? Just a couple things the first thing while we're talking about money for the npa's Ward one needs more money than any other ward because that's the only ward that has to pay For their meeting space. So $1,200 comes out of their 2,500 Just like that. Okay, so they need more support than any other npa. That's what the friends That's the friends meeting house Interesting the only other thing that I was going to add before carol just to get it in So the best time to schedule all wards meetings or special ward meetings Is if you look for the fifth wednesday or the fifth thursday of a month Because they're all open and all the ceto staff and all the cctv staff are available So if you want to have future meetings Fifth wednesdays and fifth thursdays. Thank you carol Just real quickly. Um, we've talked about trusted community voices almost at every all wards meeting um, this is a leadership group among um As far as I know scott among um New american folks our neighbors. I think when we talk about outreach and we talk about expansion We we've talked about this a lot. Um, just translation services and outreach and meeting with trusted community voices I'd once again like to just put that on the agenda Thank you for bringing that up. I know we have talked about this and um We are currently working through the the work plan for the next six months for the trust community voices And there's some definitely some meeting dates open And I think we've talked possibly about having you carol and maybe um, jess hyman come and present to the mpa's Um, would this be something that the both of you would be amenable to you and we can we can find a meeting date in the near future sure Yeah, and there'll probably be others too who could join Present to the trusted community voices about mpa's Yeah, and certainly you can have discussions on who you think would be the best representatives and to do that I'll just simply say that as I look around here I don't see A lot of diversity in terms of what our community is and I think using those funds to uh to engage with Communities and individuals that are not as well representative would be a very good use of of those funds And I'd like to see us move in that direction Certainly speaking as an individual from ward three We have a very strong interest in engaging with and bringing steering committees on from the king maple neighborhood And folks from our our new american community. So just wanted to say that Thanks everyone for your time for coming out. I think we had a very substantive very robust discussions And I appreciate all of you who attended online as well We will get together and get this next meeting planned and without that. I'll entertain the motion to adjourn All in favor Meeting adjourned at