Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's the Cube, covering Accelerate 2017, brought to you by Fortinet. Now, here are your hosts, Lisa Martin and Peter Burris. Hi, welcome back to the Cube. I'm Lisa Martin joined by my co-host, Peter Burris, and we are with Fortinet in beautiful Las Vegas at their Fortinet Accelerate 2017 event. A great event that brings together over 700 partners from 93 countries and right now, we're very excited to be joined by one of their technology partners, Carbon Black. Jim Marine, welcome to the Cube. Thank you very much, I appreciate it, great to be here. Absolutely, you are a key alliance partner, Carbon Black, as you're the director of technology alliances. I know that you've been at Carbon Black for three years, but you're quite the veteran in terms of technology engineering, sales, channel services, expertise, quite the veteran, quite the sage. But some interesting things that I wanted to let our viewers know about Carbon Black and we'll have you expand upon this is that you guys are the leading cloud-based endpoint security company that stops cyber threats. And that your roots are actually in offensive security. You now protect more than seven million endpoints worldwide and 30 of the Fortune 100 are your customers. Tell our viewers a little bit more about Carbon Black. What are you doing? What are some of the things that you're seeing as security now is a boardroom level topic? We're seeing a lot of changes. It's the idea of taking an endpoint context, what's actually happened at the endpoints. The endpoints are always the real source of where the attacker was really targeting to get to the information. And for such a long period of time, we've used legacy technology to really do that. So we're looking at what are some things that we need to do now to really change that entire game. And one of the key things about that is looking beyond just simple files. Now where's bad, we know that. And we've had great ways of stopping that for years and our attackers are moving well beyond just malware today and they're moving really into leveraging different attacks by actual actors within the customer's environments. And so we're really positioning ourselves to stop those next threats, the new threats that we're seeing and do it in such a way that it's very easy for a customer to still manage, still maintain it and then integrate that with other things. And I think the key word is integrated with other things. Absolutely. Because it's not just enough to know what the endpoints doing. You have to know what the endpoints doing in the context of what it's supposed to be able to do with those other things. Talk a little bit about how that and Fortinet come together for customers. So it was really important for it. We've had a very strong opinion that open APIs are very important. The idea that we are better together than we are apart and that really is true in security. For too long we've had different vendors that have tried to consolidate everything under one roof and the problem is that most customers will make financial investments within a given product and then they need to capitalize on that on every single new product they bring in board. With us from an endpoint context, we really wanted to make sure that our endpoint data, the actual vision of what we're seeing could be shared with network entities, could be shared with a SOC. And so the SOC can have a holistic picture of the entire environment. Not just on-premise but also off. How, you know, talking about endpoints, tablets, mobile, the proliferation of IoT devices. How does a company nowadays that we were talking off here that the day of everybody getting issued a phone or a Blackberry is over? But when we're all providing our own devices as employees how realistic is it for a company to actually secure the things that I as an employee are doing with my own devices? On a corporate network? It's really tough. We have to control the things we can control, right? Which are the endpoints that we issue. So the laptops, the desktops, the home systems. For a lot of engineers now with a remote context they're working from home on an iMac. We need to be able to protect that as it was on a corporate network. And so part of that is taking that off-network devices but enabling the corporate assets, the actual on-network devices to leverage that. And that's what we've done with Fortinet. We leveraged the Fort of Sandbox so that whenever we see a brand new binary on an endpoint we can submit that to Fort of Sandbox and say is it good or is it bad? Obviously we don't know that binary at that point. We're making a determination. And if Fort of Sandbox come back and says that is malicious we can not only stop her from executing the game but also terminate it in motion. One of the things I'm curious about during that general session this morning there was a CISO panel of Levi's AT&T and Lazard was there. There were also some great customer videos Pittsburgh Steelers and some other telecommunications companies. When we're talking about what you're doing with Fortinet expand upon that a little bit more in terms of the integration. Also are you focused on certain industries that might be at higher risk healthcare financial services for example? Yeah I mean I like to say yes but honestly I think everybody's at a higher risk. I mean the hard part today is that attackers are going after wherever they can find the most valuable data to them. And it's not based upon my role and my job or my industry it's based upon what that attacker actually needs. And so we see it in small mom and pop shops we see it in healthcare we see it in finance definitely see it in retail a lot recently in manufacturing. And so we really view it as the customer needs to take a proper assessment understand where their assets are and then deploy multiple different layers which includes an end point solution to actually stop that. So you take our next generation endpoint you take Fortinet's advanced capabilities on the network you take the visibility what they've done with the fabric and now all of a sudden you have this really great solution that does protect the assets they can control. For IoT I mean honestly that's to be something we're going to have to be challenged for with a while. But at least if I can segment that a little bit and protect what I can control I don't throw my hands up and say I can't do anything. Now I have IoT segmented in such a way where I can properly address that with an overall posture. And Kui can we presume that your customers have this awareness as knowledge that we're already breached we now have to be providing or limiting damage is that the feeling and the vibe that you're getting when you're talking to customers about end point security? We hope so. I mean we came out about three years ago and said that there's an assumption to breach which means don't assume you won't be assumed it's already happened and assumed you just don't know about it. And that's really a reality I think for a lot of people nowadays. You know Ponamon does a really great yearly expose where it talks about how long it breaches the curve within environments and it's 200 plus days or some number. The point is it's always a significant amount of time. So the ability to have more visibility within a network not only on the network side but also on the end point side and combine that into one view is so important because most customers honestly don't know they have been. And then when it is it's a panic situation and that's rough. But increasingly an enterprise that's providing service to a customer or a partner is really providing service to an end point somewhere. It is. So we know for example that it's that when folks when the bad guys are trying to do something malicious they're just not getting into your network and working their way through your systems until they can find the most valuable data. They also know that if you are a trading partner that even if your data is not that valuable the trading partners data may be very valuable. And so they are hopping corporate boundaries as well. And so trading partners absolutely have to be able to secure and validate that their relations are working the way that they're supposed to be working. So how does my ability to be a trading partner go up and down based on my ability to demonstrate that I've got great end point security in my business? It's a great question because I don't know if too many customers have a strict validation to say if I'm a partner of yours not a technology partner but a business partner that I expect you to maintain a certain level of security protection. There's just an automatic assumption that we partner with Siebel or somebody else and of course they have a protection enabled. I think you have to raise it up a level. So we have to have the policy mindset to not say that obviously we have different solutions deployed but what have I enabled from a very broad perspective? What kind of things do I allow my end points or do I allow my network to do? What kind of things do I disallow? Do I block? Do I have control of domain admin? I mean something as simple as that but that forms a policy and then different companies can match policies together and say yes you actually do comply with our policy or our security posture therefore we're going to enable the partnership because you're right. I mean if I come in through a partner even does that allow my insurance to cover me from a cyber protection perspective? That may be disallowed because it may be seen as an authorized entry within an environment not a breach and so there's all kinds of complexities that come out of that but we have to have a better way of communicating between our companies. So as Kenzie, the CEO of Fortinet talked about this morning in his keynote he was talking about the evolution of security going from the perimeter to web and web 2.0 cloud and now we're moving towards 2020 in this time of needing to have resilience and automation and it's also an interesting time as we get towards 2020 and that's not that far away. This is 2017 if you believe that. The proliferation of mobile and IoT and tablet I mean they're expected to be what? 20 billion IoT devices connected in 2020 and only about a billion PCs. As you see that proliferation and you look at the future and from an endpoint perspective how has the game changed today and how do you expect the game for endpoints security to change in the next few years as we get to 2020? I mean it's interesting because I remember the days when I was first installing the firewall the only one in my enterprise and working through that kind of perimeter and barrier concept and now that barrier's disappeared. So we see a lot of things moving to cloud and I think that really is the key enabler. What Fortinet is doing with the CASB structure they're really targeting for a cloud control or cloud protection. We're seeing it from a lot of vendors. There's a lot of focus on that right now because if I have a mobile device I may not be able to attach the mobile itself because of the operating system or restrictions from the provider like iOS has in it but I can control the application. I can tie into that and if I tie that back to my corporate environment so the same policies are being applied and I can apply that down to my endpoints and make sure that at least from an application perspective what's running on my laptop is the same control segment running on my application in the cloud. I now have a better control of the entire environment and I think that's where our first step is there's going to be a lot of advances I believe really the next 10 years, five years or less for 2020 that really bring about some unique things concerning to mobile and IoT. Can you share with us a little bit more exactly how your technologies integrate with Fortinet's technologies especially kind of looking at the announcements today what they're doing with FortiGate the announcements with the operating system. Absolutely so today we basically from an endpoint perspective anytime we see a binary that comes on from our CB protection product we'll send that to FortiSandbox at first we'll query it to find out whether or not they've seen it before if they haven't we'll send it to them and they can do a detonation obviously we're taking the results of that back and then we're making a block determination on that. Obviously those are things that we haven't already seen before so with different protection modes and different protection policies are in place but if I haven't seen that particular binary something brand new it could be malicious it could be a zero day. I can play that against the FortiSandbox and find out whether or not it actually does have that malicious nature to it and then act upon it. I've always thought of endpoint security and tell me if I'm right as the first line of defense. It is, I mean magically we've always thought of the firewall as the first line because we think outward in but really it is inward out because you use your laptops at home right so it is the first place that everything always starts. So it's the first line of defense and to my perspective and increasingly as businesses deliver, provide or their services are in fact based on data that that notion of the first line of defense accretes new responsibilities for both customers as well as vendors as well as sellers. So over the next few years how is that notion of the first line of defense going to change? How are we going to see customers start thinking about this and whether or not I'm a good customer? How do we anticipate, how do you anticipate kind of some of the social changes that are going to be made possible by evolution of endpoint security and how it will make new demands on endpoint security? It's going to be, it's going to start with more visibility. I don't mean that in a very broad sense but today we have any of our solutions that were really targeted about just simple binary yes or no. Do I allow some to execute or not? And that worked very well 10, 15 years ago. Increasing over time we know that it really hasn't because there've been advanced attacks that have come around. So now we're applying more visibility to that endpoint saying what actually is occurring and how are those processes working together? Have I seen something operate from an email file? I click on it, something else happens. Now all of a sudden there's code executing. That sequence of events or that stream becomes very, very important for a visibility standpoint. Our natural, our product CB defense takes that as a streaming prevention. We say what is the risk factor scoring that we've applied to this and how does that sum together not only blocking good and bad but now I'm getting into actions. So now that I'm paying more attention that rolls into what are users doing? What are they actually doing on the endpoints and how does that policy dictate? I think for so long we've said we can't approach endpoints because we can't control them and that's the CEO's device or whatever it is. We're really changing that methodology. I think mindset-wise people are okay with I need more controls on the endpoint, I need more capabilities. That's going to start transitioning to having conversations about well how do you control your endpoints? And suddenly there's more of a focus besides just saying do you have something installed to block stuff? That conversation got really short because it just doesn't work today. So I'm not saying do I have carbon black installed or anything else installed. It's what am I doing? What policy am I applying there? How does that match up to my business partners? I've made commitments to this customer. This customer's made commitments to me. Are those commitments being filled and are someone trying to step beyond those commitments to do something bad? I never want to be the source of an attack to my partner. That would be the worst. Right, and well there are some very high profile cases where an HVAC company for example suddenly discovered that they were a security risk to some very very big companies. What's supposed to happen that way? And to your point before it was an HVAC company. I mean nobody thought about HVAC being a targeted industry. A critical infrastructure. Exactly, exactly, but it doesn't matter. People are after the data. They're after what's on the endpoint and that's why we need to protect the endpoints as a first step. But obviously combining that with a bigger emotion because it's not all endpoint. There has to be a network barrier. You have to have other things involved. There's cloud now and we're transitioning in such a quick way and that's where partnerships are going to be formed. I really believe that you're going to see more and more partnerships over time with this collective nature of leveraging what I call the intent-based networking. Right, so intent-based. What is the intent behind it? What is the target the attack are really trying to do? And I love that concept because it really does match up well with us. Well, but as security practices and technologies improve in one area, security practices and technologies have to improve in all areas. Otherwise one part of that security infrastructure becomes the point that everybody's using for the attack. There's no vulnerability, right? Yeah, it's vulnerability. So it's all going to, my point is a lot of people are now starting to think, oh, endpoint security, that's not that, this. No, that too has to evolve and it's going to create value and it has to, in context, it has to evolve in the context of the broader class of attacks and the things that people are trying to do with their data in digital business. Absolutely. I think that's, for a lot of customers that realize that they're making that a part of their overall security planning, third for three years out, what am I going to do and where do I stand at today? And obviously there's existing license cycles and things like that on the network side as well. But I think a lot of customers are starting to formulate a whole plan about how do I look at my entire infrastructure? Forget what I have. Let me say I want to have certain protections in place. First off, do I have them? And if I not, can I plug something in that actually still will seamlessly integrate? And that's a really important point to a lot of our customer base. Speaking on kind of giving you the last word, Jim, you both talked about evolution here. As we look at where CarbonLoc is today, you were just named by Forrester as the market leader for Endpoint Security. Fantastic. Thank you. Looking at that, going into 2017, as we're in January 2017, the announcements from Fortinet today, what most excites you about this continued technology partnership? Continue with Fortinet? With Fortinet, yes. Okay. That is a good overall, it's good. Honestly, it's something as simple as their approach to the APIs. I mean, it sounds silly, but at the end of the day, if their approach is really to leverage and to work with other partners, and that's what ours has been for a long time. So they're not saying it just has to be our product, it just has to be our solutions. They're saying whatever the customer's already invested in, we're going to make it better. And that's been a strong message we've had for a long time as well. I don't care what you've put in for a firewall necessarily, but I do want to be able to integrate with that because the customer needs that. It's not me being very selfish, so to speak. Customers are demanding that they have a simpler solution to manage. And it's that simplistic way of, that's where we're headed from the endpoint perspective, of having a solution that actually takes in everything from the environment and really makes it a common view for the answer responder and the SOC personnel. And it's all essential for digital business transformation, which as we've been talking about, Peter, is the crux of that is data and value in the trust and that. Well, Jim Brain from Caramel Black, thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE today. And on behalf of Peter Burris and myself, Lisa Martin, we thank you so much for watching theCUBE and we're going to be right back.


I'm Zeke and welcome to the dream green show in this episode I'm gonna tell you guys exactly how many shares you need in the stock to make a hundred dollars in Dividends every single month That's right guys. I'm gonna let you guys know that in this video. That's right guys So as you guys saying I'm gonna show you guys exactly how to make a hundred dollars in dividends every single month How much money you're gonna need investing inside these certain companies now? If I had to start over all over again, I would do this a completely different way I would invest into dividend aristocrats and most definitely Invested to dividend kings and guess what guys one of my favorite companies inside the stock market just became a dividend king Wait, what is a dividend king? Let me explain it to you guys first of all a dividend aristocrat It's any company that's inside the S&P 500 and have increased their dividends over the last 25 years, that's right They've been increasing their dividends longer than some of you guys have even been alive now a dividend king is also a company That's inside the S&P 500 and have been increasing their dividend payments for the last 50 years guys as that's longer than most of us have even been alive that's watching this video And if you click on this video and don't know what dividends are Dividends is by far the most passive income that they is out there I mean you literally wake up and make money by doing absolutely nothing Dividends is when a company payback that shareholders just for owning shares of that company as a way to say hey Thank you for owning a part of our company and they are hoping that you reinvest your dividends back into that company To help the company grow even further But some people like to take those dividends and live off their dividends And I'm building a dividend portfolio right now that hopefully I could live off of in the future and I'm telling guys I've been dividend investing for a while and if I was to start over again I'm going to show you guys the two dividends one is a dividend aristocrat And one is a dividend king that could have me retired quicker Then I would have if I would be working inside the industry Put in it inside of a retirement account or savings account So make sure that you guys subscribe to this channel right now Go head scroll down hit that thumbs up button subscribe to the channel and stay to the end of this video So you don't miss out on any of this crucial information All right, and before we dive into it if you guys want to pick up some free shares I'm gonna leave a link down to Moomoo and a link down to Weeble down in the description You sign up deposit any amount of money inside Weeble You receive up to 12 free stocks and if you deposit a hundred dollars into Moomoo You can receive up to 20 free stocks So if you want to head start and hopefully pick up some dividend stocks check out those links down in the description It's literally free money You could keep those shares inside of your account and use it or you could sell those shares and withdraw all of your money It's literally free money. Do not miss out on this amazing end of the year Opportunity but enough talking. Let's go ahead and dive straight into this video. Welcome back dreamers Here we are on the first one This is my dividend aristocrat aristocrat is when you have increased your dividends over the last 25 years This is real estate income ticker symbol. Oh, this is known as the monthly Paying dividend stock. It is a real estate read I'm real estate reads are required to pay back 90% of that taxable income back in a form of dividends to their investor That's why a lot of people love investing into real estate reads and ticker symbol Oh, real estate income is known in the investing world as the monthly Paying dividend stock that mean they pay out their dividends to the investors every single month Not every dividend company pays out every single month They're monthly paying dividend stocks and they're quarterly paying dividend stocks But this one right here pays out the dividends every single month I mean you will receive a payment from them 12 times a year if we scroll down you guys can see my next dividend payment from them It'll be $2.50 and that's just from only 10 shares of real estate income Like I said if I could do it all over again I would have thousands of shares of real estate income So I'm trying to give you guys some game I'm trying to give you guys some knowledge on real estate income that have a dividend year of around 4.69% Now before I move over and tell you guys exactly how many shares of real estate income you need to own in order to make $1,200 a year $100 a month in dividends from this monthly paying dividend stock Let's move over to by far my favorite dividend king That just just became a dividend king and that is PepsiCo Now here we are PepsiCo PepsiCo just became dividend kings they have last year They will increase their dividends every single year for the last 49 years and this year Pepsi Just raised their dividends again, and now they have increased their dividend payments for the last 50 years just now making them a part of the dividend king clubs I do not see them cut of their dividends anytime soon Especially since they have been performing very well over the last five years that up 56% In fact, my next dividend payment is gonna be on January 6 2023 for $2.30 and I own two shares Once again, if I could start all over again, I will own hundreds of shares of PepsiCo I'm gonna show you guys exactly why in a second So don't click off this video because I'm gonna show you guys exactly how much money you need in both PepsiCo in in tickle symbol because it is a major difference And I don't want to get you guys discouraged because I'm gonna show you a little trick that can help you get to that $1,200 a year and dividends even quicker. So yeah, it'll help you get there a lot quicker But right there you guys can see I'm up 26% in PepsiCo, and I have a dividend year of 2.4% So that is a huge different compared to the price because the price of PepsiCo is $183.12. So let's go ahead and figure out exactly how many shares and how much it will cost for us to make $100 a month or $1,200 a year in dividends from each of these companies and then at the end of and then right after that I'm going to show you guys a very simple trick on how if you use this trick you will have millions of dollars And you will have a cash flow of passive income and a form of dividends if you just stick to this simple strategy Okay, guys here we go I just put up a chart from Seekin effort as you guys can see right here to have a dividend growth of 50 years and over the last five years they had a growth rate of 7.39% Probably being out inflation. So as you guys can see they have a dividend year of 2.48% The larger the dividend year the more they pay out But at the end of the day, they're paying our $4.60 for every one share that you own of PepsiCo So let me show you guys right quick. Oh, once again, they are a quarterly paying dividend stock So right there, they're gonna pay our $4.60 for every share that you own of PepsiCo So if we pull up our calculator, we type in we want to make $1,200 a year and dividends You want to divide that by four dollars and sixty cents? So you're gonna need 260 shares of PepsiCo in order to make a hundred dollars or twelve hundred dollars a year and then you month will multiply that by the price of 183 dollars and 12 cents. So that's gonna cost us 47,770 dollars to make $1,200 a year in dividends from PepsiCo But hold on guys, I know you're saying $47,000 is a lot of money But I'm going to show you a very simple strategy to help you get there in no time at all guys Especially if you're gonna be long-term investors, but I'm going ahead and pull up ticker symbol. Oh, so I could show you guys How much it would cost to invest into a company has that has a little bit of a higher dividend you Okay, here we are really to income as you guys can see dividend growth was 25 years That five-year growth rate is not as big as PepsiCo But they have increased their dividends over the last 25 years making them dividend aristocrats and they have a there are a Monthly paying dividend stock with a 4.73 dividend yield. So they're paying out $2 and 98 cents So let's do $1,200 divided by $2 and 98 cents So you gonna need 402 shares in the price of realty income right now is $62 and 24 cents So you need around $25,000 almost half the price of PepsiCo because they have a higher dividend year in order to make $1,200 a year So let me show you guys right now that state to the end of this video exactly how you can make this possible Every very easily and affordable. Okay, so here we're on the portfolio visualizer Let's say we started investing in two in the year 2000 right and we just started off with a thousand dollars and our cash flow is going to be investing just $200 every single week into the stock market or that's going to be $800 a month right there So if you can find any kind of way to make an extra $200 a week get a higher paying job start a side hustle Just any way to where you can invest the extra $800 a month or $200 a week into the stock market You can make this strategy work for you and you will have millions of dollars Let's go ahead and scroll down and here's the trick now I'm going to tell you guys you need to reinvest your dividends for the first couple of years for the first couple of months Reinvest your dividends back into these companies. So now you're gonna have more shares of these companies It's the compound interest effect that is the eighth wonder of the world is compound It's compound interest a compound interest the snowball effect will start off very small And then the snowball by the time you hit the bottom of the hill would be very very very large And then once the ball rolling is rolling and it can't stop So you want to reinvest your dividends at the beginning of the year guys? So here we go Let's say we're starting off with PepsiCo right here And a hundred percent of our portfolio is PepsiCo. So let's say analyze our portfolio From if we started invested from the year 2000 to 2022 we would have a final balance of over $1 Billion dollars. I told you guys you have a million dollars and that's just from investing $200 a week over the last 20 years Now I know you're saying how long would it take me to make $1,200? We're right here in 2001 $200 and it would take us approximately just one two three four five Just six years to make $1,200 in dividends from PepsiCo just six Years if six years is too long for you then you might not want to become an investor You might want to become a trader if six years is too long for you because a lot of investors like to invest over The next 30 years and just this is just 20 years to where in the 20-year mark and you have passive income of over $22,975 dollars just by doing nothing at all and With the higher dividend income here we go with tick and symbol. Oh, this is why this is one of my favorite This is why this is one of my favorite real estate REITs and dividend aristocrats I would invest into if I could start all over over the last 20 years You have even more money than PepsiCo. You will have 1.3 million dollars inside your account just from investing over the last 20 years and if you scroll down to the dividend income, it would take you One year just one year of investing $200 a week or $800 a month into ticker symbol Oh in order for you to have over $100 in dividends every single month now if one year is too long for you If one year is too long for you I don't know what to tell you you might want to become a 4x trader or something like that if one year is too long for you But as you guys can see over the last 20 years PepsiCo, you have $22,975 coming in and with ticker symbol real estate income You will have someone salary coming in in just 20 years Just imagine if you invested for 30 35 years you will have over 70 80 90 thousand dollars in dividends coming in from just these two companies are known if you could invest into If you could invest into good quality dividend aristocrats and dividend kings with with ticker symbol Oh, you'll have over 53 thousand dollars coming in and there we go dreamers if I had to start all over again I would tell you guys to invest into a well established Reliable company and the easiest way to figure that out is to look for companies that are dividend Aristocrats and dividend kings the dividend kings are even safer than the dividend aristocrats because they They've increased their dividends through many multiple recessions and almost depressions In pandemics they've increased their dividends through everything So they're probably not going to cut their dividends anytime soon Dividend kings are safer than dividend aristocrats if I had to start over and I had to invest into just two dividend pan companies I would pick any company. That's a dividend aristocrat and any company That's a dividend king because they're approving that they're going to increase their dividends every single year for the last 25 years are the last 50 years and the ones that I would choose of course would be ticker symbol Oh in pepsico Those companies have been performing Outstandingly well, I don't even know if that's a word, but I'm going to stick with it But if you guys do want to pick up some free shares I'm going to leave a link down in the description to webu go ahead and pick up those free shares with mu mu as well And if you guys want to know every single time I buy and sell a stock I'm going to leave a link down in the in the comment section in the pen comment section to my patreon the patreon to take it to My discord I post every single time I buy and sell a stock We also have pro day traders in there that puts that option trades every single day And you'll be a part of a community of traders that want to be financially free just like you So if you want to be around something like that go ahead and check out that link down in the pen comment section And while you're down there in the comment section, please let me know if any other company any other dividend aristocrat Or dividend king, please let me know down in the comment section Which one would you invest into with? Tell me tell me which um dividend aristocrat you invest into and what dividend king you would invest into And how much would you have made over from the year 2000 to the year 2022? Let me know which one you have been investing into down in the comment section But in that guys make sure you subscribe to this channel. I got many more videos coming out soon So you don't miss out on any crucial information if you made it to end this video You're a real one go ahead hit that thumbs up button to show extra love and support But in that i'm zeke bring you to dream green show and i'm out. Peace


Welcome folks. This is House Corrections and Institutions, and it is now May, May 4th. And we've only got a couple more weeks of the legislative session, so our work is starting to wind down. Our bills are finishing up. And, but we still have some little outstanding issues, one being in terms of how we proceed to get the full body back working in person come January of next year. And that's going to be a heavy lift. There was a report of to get the conversation going, Freeman French Freeman report in terms of space and space needs, the short term, as well as the long term but one feeds into the other it's kind of like a domino you can take, you do one movement that then opens up something that you can then take the next step that then opens up from the next step. And it's figuring out what that first step is, and then figuring out what gets shifted so that it opens up space that then you take the next step. And also integral to all of this is our proposed HVAC system replacement and there's some frustration building that this is not being done quickly enough. And also the other piece that I think we need to spend some time with us a historical aspect of our building and when you're talking about changing walls. And changing the layout, there's some real historical implications that we may not be aware of for sure, and definitely our colleagues are not aware of. And that's why we have the director of the division Laura Trishman and to speak to us about some of those regulations and nuances and things we need to be aware of when you're when we're talking about doing any renovations, however small or however large within the capital building. So Laura, I'm going to turn it over to you. And if you could introduce yourself for the record. Thank you. I'm Laura Trishman I'm the State Historic Preservation Officer for Vermont. Let's call you director instead of the officer. Thank you. One of the primary roles of the Division for Historic Preservation under 22 VSA chapter 14 is to work with state agencies state government to protect historic resources. We like to work early and often on projects to make sure that the needs particularly safety and continued use of spaces are taken into account because we certainly don't want to get in the way of safety issues, accessibility issues. We don't want to turn every single building into a museum. With the State House, you have a unique situation where you are living in a museum, say living breathing museum and recording. What has happened there from day one to how you continue to use it is really important because if you even think back, we don't know the exact location of the first State House. And that's a shame. You know we have some idea of where it was. There's been alterations to the existing State House that are not thoroughly documented although I will give a shout out to David sheets in the book that he did about the State House but the space that you're in when it was originally constructed it was two stories tall, because it was the State Library and Museum. The floor that you're normally sitting on wasn't there until 1919 when the Supreme Court was built. So, these are histories we want to make sure that are properly recorded, and that we understand what elements need to be saved so that we don't completely wipe out our history, like we did with the first State House. I think my strongest message is change can happen, but change needs to be understood and examined because as you said, Representative Emmons there's HVAC, there's mechanical, there's the technology, there's space. You know you need some place to put your stuff and we understand that. And also taking into account how the building has evolved and how it needs to continue evolving will let us understand and identify those elements that are most important. I don't know if it's the most recent but definitely the most remembered renovation that recently happened was related to the work that David sheets undertook with the paint the carpet the lighting. He was, he was restoring parts of the building back to its historic period. I want to make sure going forward that whatever changes are made are well documented, understood, prioritized correctly. So that somebody another 20 years down the road doesn't become before you and say I need a couple million dollars to restore this space back to the way it was in 2020. We also don't want to completely wipe out the many dollars you spent on that recent historic restoration. So, typically what we do is, is create a hierarchy of character defining features character defining spaces. And we level them of most important. What could change. What definitely can change what cannot change. And then we start balancing the whole right so we need to properly understand everything that's going to happen. We can make sure we're mitigating and balancing things correctly. So there's a couple different aspects to it one we need to document before anything happens. And in that documentation we need to understand what happened before. So if you start moving around the walls. For example in your committee rooms, which used to be a two story height. We need to make sure that the structure itself is strong enough to hold any changes that are being made, because it already has been altered. And once you start altering something carrying weight a different way. It's going to move how the building responds. If you add a window to to the wall of your house, you're going to start seeing cracks. Or if you change if you widen an opening, which is done at my house, you're going to start seeing the cracks because the load bearing is changing and we want to be very careful to make sure we understand what is within that structure now. So we need to start jumping in and making changes that are going to cause more changes and more problems. Because I think some of the issues that you're dealing with are unexpected consequences of the growing legislative business. You know, and, and the more business you do the larger you make a resource, the more people are starting to come. And the simple you know I want to enlarge my dining room space so I can have more people come you do that and they're going to come. So you need to be ready to to feed them all. Right so taking into account that you're going to have more people you're going to have more activities. And over the years when the Supreme Court was constructed, the library, the museum, they all moved out of the building because your activities were expanding, and they're going to continue to expand. And I think also taking into account future changes and options. We don't want to just build out to what we can do now we need to take into account what could happen next. And that's where we need to be very careful of what gets removed, how it gets removed, how it gets altered. And I'm not so interested in, in getting into David's domain of, you know, paint carpet lighting I really respect the state curator, but through 22 vs a we have a role to review plans, proposals, and make sure that that things are really being mitigated correctly, because we don't want you to significantly alter something. Because it's been thoroughly thought out so that you don't physically harm the building and lose the history you're trying to present in the state house. Laura. Can you give that citation. I think you did at the very beginning by statute that you require your role as to work with state agencies to protect the install the historic aspect. It's 22 vs a chapter 14. Anything else, you have more, you have more right. Well, I just the, the skunk in the, in the punch bowl can always be archaeology. So, if you're talking about it, in addition, we need to make sure that we look at the archaeology. The back of the state house obviously there's, there's stone back there so that's not an issue but connecting anything and bringing it further out we need to really understand because we don't know where the first state house was. We don't know certain things about that site. So we want to make sure we don't miss that opportunity I don't foresee you know major digging and investigations and all of that but it's definitely something to keep in our minds. I also think taking into consideration the capital complex commission and the city of Montpelier for for additions, because both of those entities, regulate what your immediate neighbors do to their own houses, and we need to respect that this is a large historic district that you're in, Montpelier is the largest historic district in the state of Vermont. And we need to respect that, that the state house is the, the jewel piece of that. And if you're allowed to do alterations without certain oversight and review and consideration of all the many partners. We need to respect the Pandora's box for everybody else. I think the, the Freeman French Freeman plan has some really good elements to it. I only saw it last week for the first time, we did not participate in consultation with them. And we should have. And we want to. But I, I caution you that those are conceptual plans and ideas. And while we tend to really appreciate seeing plans at that early stage when they're just an idea so that we can give some feedback. I caution moving further and adopting those without further exploration of what the building can withstand what spaces mean the most to us. What needs you have as a legislative body and historic preservation's role is, is never to say no. I said that on the record. We, we want to work we consult we have conversations we want to figure out how to make things work. And so that's I think where we are with the initial idea that Freeman French Freeman put forward is to have those conversations. So the first thing I would, we advocate for the building, right because the building can't speak for itself. So I'm always going to go in with the highest preservation level, knowing that I actually have a lower level of comfort based on fire safety code use. I don't want to keep this as a museum. And I think that the people of the city who have been here since the beginning of the 1850s, they're walking into an 1858 building or a space that was altered in 1919. Another thing to consider is that right now because it is a historic building. There are code exemptions that exist now. You can no longer be excused from having ADA, accessibility, certain types of restrooms. And I know some of the plan that Freeman French Freeman had did bring some of that in, but all of your code exemptions will have to start over. Once you open that box, and then you might also be bringing in some energy efficiency. Conversation, which might not be all that bad with the windows that you've got, but, you know, those windows are not original. So how do we adapt this because originally they were two story windows. But what type of window would go in there for energy efficiency. What type of insulation would go into the building. These are all conversations that need to happen. And they need to happen collectively. When we were working on the Supreme Court alterations which ultimately didn't happen. We were all sitting around huge cables with everyone as stakeholders saying their bit. Even during COVID when we've been working on the state auditors fire escape. We're all coming to the table fire safety myself having these conversations, you know, with the proposal of the idea. This is what I want to do. That's not going to work for fire safety that's not going to work for ADA. This could work for historic preservation. You're bringing more ideas, but we also all have our professional lane that we can travel in and I think ultimately you get a much better project. And I know that's how Freeman French Freeman works as well. I'm so stressed that this is concept and needs a lot more conversation to it. And I would really hate to see the loss of some interior spaces before that is well thought out because once you start changing, you've changed it. And if you go back you are replicating and that might not be where you want to replicate and everything costs money and more money now than it did before. I'm Laura, and I do want to say that I think folks over the weekend, had a little bit of realization that the Freeman French Freeman report is a starting point for the conversation. It is not a starting point for the construction. People are beginning to realize that and that there are a lot of stakeholders involved here, and a lot of moving pieces. And what is really coming to the forefront is this all has to be vetted in one form, one way it's got to get vetted and what is the mechanism to vet that. What is the mechanism to simulate all of that information, then make recommendations to what group, what entity to start making some final decisions that you can then start getting the ball rolling. It's clear that it's very clear that I got a text from John so we just kind of threw me. It's very clear that the institutions committees need to be involved. It's clear that leadership is involved. It's clear that what entity is a recommendation going to be made to. There's thoughts right now of the legislative State House Advisory Committee would be the entity that would be vetting all of this and hearing testimony from all the stakeholders and all the aspects and weighing everything and coming back to some entity. We don't know if it's going to be joint rules. We don't know if it's going to be joint legislative management committee, or it could be something else completely different. No one knows that at this point. But we're in a different place today than we were last Friday, in terms of people are starting to see. It's a real complex issue. And it's not something you do without thinking through all the faces.  And there's a lot of stakeholders is not just us. It's not just let's counsel and joint fiscal office. It's the public. It's the press. It's the lobbyist. There's a lot of people. So how do we balance all of that. It's where we are. So questions, we do Scott, you have a question. Thank you. Hi, Laura, I just wanted to ask about where the Senate chamber used to be until 1919 was, was that the 30s and the 40s that were two stories. So it, it, it wasn't the chambers it's your committee rooms. Right. Right. Well, so where was that. The committee rooms. The committee rooms are now where where that where the committee rooms are now was a two story space that has a library and museum. Okay. I was sad in relation. I think to get our perspective here, Laura, when you say a two story, the two story was the lobby area. And the lounge, which is now the lounge, which used to be the Supreme Court. And the second floor was where the chambers for our now. And Scott's asking, where were the committee rooms, like, where our committee room is in the 30s. I'm talking about where your committee rooms are now. Right. There's two, there's two floor. There's the lounge on the first floor, the legislative lounge. Right. That is the 30s that's a set of committee rooms above that is the 40s and other set of committee rooms. So where the lounges now was a Supreme Court. Was the Supreme Court. Is that correct. Yes. Yes. And then above that the 30s in the 40s was a two story space. Yes. That's interesting. I didn't know that. And that was all changed in the night in the night in 1919. Yes. When the Supreme Court moved out, they took state archives and library with them. And then they made these smaller committee rooms inserted a floor and made smaller committee rooms. Okay, so our ceiling, our ceiling in the committee room for those folks in our committee room, our ceiling did not exist. Right. So it seems likely that that that ceiling and the floor, the floor for the rooms above is being structurally held up by the walls that created the committee rooms, the 30s. So, yeah, okay. I'm just curious to understand how it all evolved. Yeah, we, and I guess I had another question. We were you going to talk about also the conceptual recommendation or conceptual idea from Freeman French for Freeman about moving some of those walls. Well, last week when I first read the report. I was a little stunned. I was locating of walls. I'm not a big fan of that when you're talking about a historic space, but then looking at the Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation, which we work with always, you can change spaces to make them useful for today. I started to think, okay, maybe it's the corridor that needs to stay and the door openings need to stay. Right, so you still get the concept of, of those individual rooms. But then as I started to explore the history more realizing that that dates from 1919. I'm not 100% sure of, of requirements or for that. Well, whether, how preservation comes into that right so what are you protecting, what are you preserving. What is the history you want to tell there, because we've completely wiped out the history of the library and state archives in that space. Do we want to continue to alter it does it matter. And those are the conversations that that haven't happened and, and going into the space and looking at it from a perspective of what does remain from when it was two stories and the Supreme Court was downstairs. Sometimes it just doesn't matter we need to document and move forward, you know we do that document and demolish does happen. But at this point I'm not 100% sure I'm more comfortable with removing walls, but I think there does need to be conversation of documentation and identifying what's important. Okay, great. Thanks I was just curious whether moving those walls was was sort of an absolute no as far as as far as you were concerned but it's not it. It was a situation. It was a little bit of a no until I learned that that's not the first phase of what was there. So once you start altering something. It gives preservationists a little more ease to continue altering, but sufficient time has passed so that what's now is just as important as what was there originally. Okay, thank you. I'm trying to figure out what guidelines, what legal guidelines. We need to work within or legislature needs to work within changing this. So, first question. Okay, here's a code review or the necessity of having to follow code. In other words, if I'm changing a bathroom on the first floor and so we have to take that out and do something to it. And I can understand somebody saying okay, this bathroom has to conform to because you're redoing this needs to conform to current standards. But does renovating the bathroom or the first floor, how does that affect city halls or something outside. How much of what triggers a code review in one portion of building, as opposed to another question. I can't speak for code enforcement. I can say that if you're doing a bathroom or if you're in one part of the building you may not necessarily be opening up and affecting codes in other areas. But when you're putting on a pretty substantial addition, your exemptions are are going to be up for conversation. So the whole, the whole point of those exemptions is the preservation of a historic building, right so we, we shouldn't be putting a, an ADA ramp on the front of the State House. So therefore we getting an exemption to put it somewhere else that is unfortunately not as obvious to those that need it, but it's still there. Okay, my second question is, who has authority, ultimate authority in some of these discussions. In other words, whatever committee gets together and decides they want to do something in the US historical preservation officer say no, I don't think you should be doing. And you say no, you can't do that. And therefore they say, oh, I guess I'll have to think of something else. We do try to reach consensus of everybody. But it may not happen. And who has the authority with regard to the historical preservation or necessary necessity for the state. You're forcing me to show my hand to start preservation in Vermont does not have a permitting process. All we can do is recommend to the state agency or the, the, the lead organization so in this case it would be the governor, we can recommend best practices and what we think is best for the preservation of those, those materials features and spaces, you can say thank you very much and off you go. Okay, you are not required to follow it. Okay, thank you. That's why I wanted to take clear enough. So, I'm sitting here thinking of Kurt's question. And before we built the addition, which is the ramp going out to the cafeteria. We did not have a DA accessible bathrooms. And we did not have a DA access access to the building. That addition was put on, I believe in 1987, 88, and 89. So what that triggered was the bathroom downstairs in the lobby had to be a DA accessible. That's why there's automatic doors. That's why there's handicapped or a DA stalls. The same with the restroom up by the cafeteria. And because we had a restroom that was in house. Well, it's house education committee now that's where the woman's restroom was back then. So when that got all changed that triggers your code with division of fire safety. And I would think my hunch is that that is when these code exemptions were solidified. Back then for that work, because there's fire suppression issues in the building and other code issues. So when we did that major renovations triggered these conversations as my hunch. And the ramp of course had to also be handicapped accessible. And where the cafeteria used to be was where the mezzanine is, and that was not handicapped accessible. So, but you could get there at one point there was a ramp that kind of circled down but there were also some steps at the end of that ramp. And I'm wondering what the process was back then to determine what that addition would look like, and what, who went through that process. I know it came out of the institutions committees. I don't know what would have led up to it. I don't know if there was some work that was done with the committees with bgs at that point. I don't know if there was a small group of folks and leadership that was working with institutions committee I'd be curious to know where those decision points were made and who was involved in those decision points of doing that addition because that was a big addition to the and that's been circling around in my mind. I know from a historic. I know from a historic preservation point of view while I wasn't here then the addition has a very modest. effect on the historic building. Right because you're only going through one opening where the ramp bridge is, and the addition itself on the back is hidden in the back, so that you don't see it. And there's there's that space between the older building and the new addition. And that's how historic preservation really likes to work less effect to historic that new is easily identified as new, and does not take away from the original historic, but the proposal now is to build out beyond that a little bit and it takes a lot more coordination and thought because do you want something that's so new that it, it screams brand new and competes with what is historic in Montpelier that it, it draws your eye immediately to it when you're looking at the rendering, and I understand they only drew a box with no architectural design to it, but your eye immediately goes right to it, because it is so, so different. And that's what we want to make sure that it doesn't compete with the community, it doesn't take away from the pink lady, and it certainly doesn't take away from the architectural design of the main building and the subsequent additions because anybody can read, this is the main building, these are the additions. You can see the difference in materials, the way it was put together and, and that's the whole point of preservation is to be able to read the changes. And I think in note when that addition was put on, it was, it was intentionally hidden behind the main building. And that's why they produce the weight bearing walls and mechanical systems for a floor on top of the cafeteria. Yes. When you start going out on the sides, you're, you're triggering the Capital Complex Commission in the city of Montpelier, because it's an historic district. Correct. That's what a lot of folks don't realize. The city of Montpelier, having just done a new historic district update and created a design review district is now working on design review guidelines so that any new construction alterations additions are respectful of what's there but still read as new. So those are in production right now. So these are all things that have to be weighed in the question is, where does it get weighed within the legislative body in order to make a proposal that works. So, people are thinking through where that would it be the State House Legislative Advisory Commission Committee because that's where it rested back in 2007-2008 when the proposal came out to place the floor above the cat cafeteria and it was a pretty elaborate design. And some folks had a real adverse reaction to that the legislature say wait a minute here that's too elaborate. And we don't need to go down that road. But that was the advisory committee that worked through that. On that end. Okay. I guess my question is so much who is involved in making the proposal, but who determines which proposal is actually followed. Correct. And that's what people haven't figured out yet. Well then the question becomes who figures out who those people are supposed to be. That's conversations that are currently going on with leadership with joint rules with Joint Legislative Management Committee. I think the first hurdle is people are seeing there needs to be a mechanism to bring the stakeholders to the table, hear testimony from everyone involved that would be impacted by this. In here testimony that was given here by our historic officer that hey, it's not as simple as tearing down a wall or building an addition. These are the consequences. These are things you have to look at. The level of conversation that everyone needs to be asked, not the level of conversation of we're tearing down a wall and we're going to put these committees and these temporary spots for a couple years. We're not even there. We're back at the ground level. So, Kurt, you're muted, I think. Kurt, I think you're muted. I think you're muted. I think his mic is not working. Your mic not working. Yeah, you sound like you're underwater a little bit. Let me ask my question. What my question has to do with the temple complex commission and what authority they have, can they, are they a deciding factor in that they're not making recommendations they can actually stop the project or can they, or what, this is my question. Does anybody know that. I can speak to this better I would, I would defer to the commissioner on this, but I believe because they are a governor appointed commission, they do have authority over the exterior of resources in the capital complex and that includes the state house. Thank you. So this is really just the very first skimming of the surface. And I think we've made substantial movement in terms of saying yes we've got to really figure this out and be thoughtful in terms of how we move forward with the space needs in the state house and not make quick decisions in bringing people to the table. And that's where our leadership is that's where our speaker is that's where a senate pro tem is. And that's where it lies right now, but there really needs to be a lot more vetting of this more information needs to be taken in so we know the ramifications. And if you start to move people. That is a whole different conversation because once you start moving staff, they don't like to be moved and legislators don't like to be moved. So nobody likes to be moved so that also has to be dealt with as well. So there's a lot of layers to it. Anything else on this before we transition to a little bit of the Adirondack. Just want some questions clarified for the Adirondack. Anything else on this. So tomorrow we're going to be getting some language based on the conversations that have occurred over the last couple days with the leadership and also the management committee this morning. I encourage folks to please go to that YouTube and view that if you can prior to tomorrow's committee meeting of ours our house committee meeting. There was some discussions there that is laying the foundation the framework for what we as a committee will be talking about tomorrow with some language that Becky is working on. In terms of the one, the fifth floor swap. And also the legislative advisory committee on the state house for that. Anything else for Laura on this particular piece.