This conference will now be recorded. Motion's been made and seconded. Any discussion on those? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Minutes are approved. Okay, we're gonna go with 3.1, storm water study presentation discussion only. Yes, this evening we have John Linder from Strand Corporation and he will be presenting our citywide storm water management plan. It's been a very large and important project that we've undertaken with their expertise on this and it's moving forward, it's a very important process. So I'd like just to have John give his presentation so we can go through it. And ultimately, after the presentation tonight, if we have questions or anything, we'll, in staff, we can talk with you about it. But ultimately, this will be going to council for approval and adoption in the near future after you have a chance to listen to the presentation, take it all in and again, talk with us if you have any other questions. But with that, I'd like to turn it over to John. All right, thank you, David and Ryan and Scott who I also worked with on this as well as a number of others. And tonight I'm gonna talk to you about the storm water management plan update that we did for the city. Please feel free to ask questions as we go. I'm gonna try to kind of plow through this and get you the information you need, but there is a rather thick report if you want more details that I believe Ryan has on his desk. So from an overview standpoint, we'll just talk about some introduction, the current updated storm water plan, the Northeast Lakeshore TMDL that's prompting some of this work. We'll talk about some storm water quantity or flood control modeling, some storm water quality modeling, then alternatives analysis for both improving water quality and dealing with flooding. And we'll talk a little bit about the concept level storm water utility feasibility study and some recommendations moving forward. There's a lot here, but you guys basically have a WPDS permit that because you have a municipally separate storm sewer system or MS-4 just to get a couple of monikers out there. The permit actually has already expired in 2019. I believe the DNR is working on getting that updated. You did have a 1996 storm water plan and then an 07 plan that included some wind slam modeling that we're updating as part of our project. This table here shows some of the requirements that you need to meet city-wide. And what we have here is a MS-4 requirement of a 20% TSS reduction or sediment reduction, city-wide. And then when the TMDL comes in to play, at least for the purposes of the risk report, we have an assumed 40% TSS reduction, an assumed 27% TP reduction. Talk a little bit more about that is likely to change here shortly to different numbers as they release that actual TMDL. The Sheboygan River, Pigeon River, Black River and Tributaria Formal Creek are 303D-listed waters and when that happens, meaning they're impaired, the DNR and EPA says you have to have a TMDL or total maximum daily load that you have to meet. We've updated a lot of the plan because of the changing requirements and the need to better understand the existing conditions, total suspended solids and TP removals or total phosphorus removals in the city and a variety of compliance options were evaluated as you'll find out. This is the actual permit on the left is a cover page on the right of the permit conditions. The work that we did for you is in bold, listed discharge detection and elimination program, construction site, pollutant control, post construction, stormwater management, pollution prevention, how you take care of the city basically from street sweeping, the leaf collection, things like that. Stormwater quality management, which deals with meeting some of those numbers we were talking about from the MS4 and TMDL standpoint and then updating your stormwater system map. And yeah, the things here in Gray are what we did as part of this project. The project cost was $211,900, of which you got $85,000 of a grant through the DNR, which was nice to offset some of that cost. The current and updated stormwater program, these are each of those, move something there. So our report, the cover page is top right there, came out in September. So we looked at a lot of these programs for all the programs, except for public education. It's part of our scope. So the second one was illicit discharge detection and elimination. So that is to deal with things going down the drain and out the storm sewer that shouldn't be there. And so there's inspections that need to be done. We updated that program for you and you have to submit that information to the DNR every year. On that, construction site, pollutant control, that's your erosion control ordinance. We do have a new appendix D that has some new procedures in there that the DNR is looking for. And some new erosion control ordinance that will have to be adopted after repealing the existing. Likewise on the post-construction stormwater management side, that is your stormwater ordinance again to adopt new and appeal existing ordinance. There's some new requirements in appendix E regarding how to track the long-term maintenance of those so that they continue to operate as designed on a private and public standpoint, really, because there's BMPs in the city and the private ones as well. We have in there some recommendations on initiating a program to gather maintenance agreements for private BMPs that you might not have. And of course, continue when new developments come in to get those maintenance agreements for private BMPs. You can take account, you can account for those and get credit for those under the modeling that we're doing here. Pollution prevention and municipal operations. This gets into maintenance of your municipally-owned stormwater BMPs. So you've got 14 wet ponds that are slowly filling up with sediment and will not only need routine maintenance, but dredging out from time to time over the years. And so we talk about that within this as well. And of course, the annual report, I believe it's done by Scott and he's works with various departments there at the city to track quantities of street sweeping, catch basin cleaning, de-icer and icing, leaf collection and staff training, which the DNR is interested in. And then we put together a stormwater pollution prevention plan at the municipal services building where you're at to look at ways to reduce pollutant runoff from the site. So that's in there as well. Stormwater quality management was wind slam modeling. Slam stands for source loading and management model and it's in a windows environment such as thus wind slam. And this is the DNR's model that they want us to use. And so we did that and some alternatives analysis. Updated the stormwater map, system map and a new report is due annually, March 31st. On this public and private BMP maintenance program, this is really something that's kind of new and we worked with Andrew there at the city on the GIS side to do some automated tools or GIS tools. So every year there's going to be some inspection needed to be submitted and tracked on the public and private side. And this tool can be used certainly on the public side. On the private side, the private would be doing this with some inspection forms that we have readily available as well. And then that would be a yearly inspection just to see that it's all generally working and every five years a certification by a qualified professional that the BMP is operating as designed. And this is a little more robust of a look at these. So like a wet pond, you would take a look at the depth of water in there. And once it gets less than three feet, it's in need of dredging or some sort of improvement, likely dredging. But this could be for a buyer attention basin or other things that occur. And so this is kind of the system to appease the DNR in terms of making sure that these things are working as designed. And if it is not, then the owner provides corrective maintenance plan, routine maintenance within two months of assessment. Some of this could be, I don't know, it's getting overgrown or there's erosion or things like that and non-routine maintenance would require some middle of a plan within 18 months. Oh, the maintenance within 18 months of submittal of that original plan for improvement. So if it had to be dredged, if the five year plan, five year certification said it needed to be dredged, well then within 18 months, it would need to be dredged according to the plan we're setting up here. And lastly, in this slide, we have a table in the plan with a stormwater budget and we're setting course at least the cost to design and dredge one pound every five years of your 14 pounds starting with design in 2025 and construction in 2026. So it's something to start thinking about the DNR is concerned that these ponds are filling up and nothing has really been done about them. And so it's something to put on the radar. So this is the Northeast Lakeshore TMDL map on the left. That's the area that has all these streams that are impaired and there's a document that's coming out shortly that's gonna say, well, in order for you to not be impaired, you need to reduce your pollutants by this amount, okay? And that's in the form of a percent TSS or sediment reduction and a percent TP or total phosphorus reduction. The timeline is on the right.  I have this yellow arrow. We were supposed to get draft allocations in mid-summer and now we are going to have a webinar in two days that's going to roll out those draft allocations. So we'll be able to see what those new numbers are. And I think Scott is gonna be attending that on behalf of the city, I'll be attending as well. So I'm gonna go first into stormwater quantity modeling because this was part of the project and not associated with the stormwater permit per se, but part of the grant and part of the scope of services at the time. So there was flooding over here on Union. That was a problem. And so what this is is a representation of an XP swim model, which is a hydraulic model that simulates the rainfall runoff process, okay? And so we have pipes in this and we have the ground surface and when the pipes can't handle the storm flow under a given storm event, the water comes onto this surface and you can see like here on Union, this is the flooding area. This is during a hundred year storm and you can see some of the depths and one could zoom into this to see it better, but for purposes of this, this is what you can see in this extent. And then so then along Wilson Avenue, likewise, there is some flooding that's occurring along there that prompted the need to study this and we'll zoom into this a little bit later, but that's what this type of modeling shows. This is supposed to show basically what you see out there when it rains and these bigger storm events. And I think it corresponds pretty well to what some of the things Scott and David and Ryan had said were occurring. And then when you take a look at how to improve this, the things you can do is either up size the pipe, which is on the right. It's got the existing pipe size is sitting here in text and then there's the colors, the new pipe size for a 10 year storm. And then we looked at a detention basin up here on that Union, Union Rail Yard and you can kind of see where that is. So the combination of the two, we're looking at how could that improve the flooding that occurs in that area. And South hotspot area, we did look at a number of ponds to help with that, including the Dollar Tree wet pond, Wilson 14th underground wet pond and the Wilson Avenue and Ninth Street proposed wet pond to help with that. See, these were the conveyance upgrades and it's a little hard to see on this one, but you can see these pipe sizes on the top right. Those are the new pipe sizes. There's, it would take you some looking at this kind of comparing things if you were really interested in what the changes, but for example, this 60 inch, whoops, this 54 inch here would have to go to a 72 inch in order to pass the 10 year storm event. And so we have new pipe sizes that would accomplish that in the report. Let's see, this is just a zoom in, a long union, not excuse me, Wilson, to see that a little bit better. So the North hotspot area up at Union. So this is just a comparison of what it looks like before and after. So on the left side is a more zoomed in version of what we saw before. And on the right side, if you put in these pipes and that detention base and you still have a little bit of flooding out here at Union, but it's far smaller. And that's the improvement that you see when you model it. This one was the South hotspot area again, zoomed in along Wilson, you can see up on top some of these existing flooding areas that are pretty severe up in here. And then after you put in the three detention basins and the upgraded storm sewer, you can see the improvement kind of in this area about the school kind of that problem goes away. We still have some flooding down over in this West End that could be looked at in the future. It's just, there's only so many things you can do when you don't have area in the area. So our open area in the flooding area. So that's a look at that. And when you look at the costs, the costs for these upgrades for the conveyance, which is the pipe upgrades on that North hotspot area, 1.7 million, South hotspot area, 15 million and the table below are the different detention basins we talked about in their costs, including the Union Avenue Underground Wet Detention Basin at 1.9, the Dollar Tree, the Wilson Avenue 14th, Wilson Avenue 9th, some of the costs there. Thing to note at the bottom here is that the wet detention basins and underground wet ponds provide flood control and stormwater quality control, especially along Wilson with the Dollar Tree and these three here will provide dual benefit. And then lastly on this slide, one thing we talked about was that one could go ahead and put the detention basins in. We know they're gonna help and to potentially provide sufficient improvement to help reduce flooding in the hotspot areas before you put in the cost of these 10-year storm sewer conveyance upgrades. So it's something to kind of think about. Okay, so on to stormwater quality modeling, what we have shown here is on the left what's considered baseline conditions or no control. So this is the pollutant load of TSS or sediment in pounds per acre, kind of shows like the darker purple and blue areas sort of that green, I don't know if that's cyan. Those are the higher pollutant load areas. And so when we go to the right side is existing conditions are with controls or with all the different wet detention basins and things you have out there. You can see a shift in some of the like red areas here go to more of a yellowish, orangeish color here, meaning there's a BMP in this area doing some good. And so we use these maps to try to highlight where we could put additional BMPs to get additional treatment. And this top graphic kind of talks about the results of the stormwater quality modeling under existing conditions. So we talked before about a 20% TSS reduction for MS4 requirement. And then this Northeast Lakeshore of 40% TSS, 27% TP assumed. The modeling results are right here. We had city-wide is 25.5% meeting damage for requirement but not this assumed TMDL leaving a 14.5% gap between 25 and a half at 40 to get there. Similarly for TP, we're at 18.1% difference between the 27 and 18.1 is 8.9. So there's a fair way to go to get there. And when you look at the bottom table and turn this into pounds of total phosphorus or total suspended solids, that's over here. That's really what we're looking at is trying to get 500 more pounds, 500 more pounds of TP reduction to close that gap to get this assumed 27% TP reduction. So that brings us to alternatives analysis. And this is just a graphic of how one goes about this. Number one, it's understanding the DNR rules, which we do through then grant writing for getting monies for the stormwater quality modeling. So we're doing that under a grant. And then once we know where we're at, you can design and construct BMPs within the city. That's one way to comply. You can do what's called watershed adaptive management. And we'll talk a little bit more about this. This is DNR's way of trying to get lower costs, compliance, but in this case, you have to be in the jurisdiction of a treatment plant. And the treatment plant has to want to do this because they have their own requirements. In this case, at this point, it doesn't seem that there's any traction towards this in Sheboygan, which then brings us to water quality trading. It's another sort of supposed to be a lower cost compliance option. So once you achieve that 20% TSS, what you do, you're allowed to do the water quality trading. And that's basically going out into the ag community and trying to find practices you can do to reduce total phosphorus and total suspended solids. So one of the big things we did for you on this project was to look at where are these potential projects, okay? And so here's a bit of a laundry list of these on the top left. You can see basins that are drawn up. One thing to note, we are proceeding right now with the Second Creek Dry to Wet Pond conversion. We assisted the city getting a grant to fund part of that, part of that with grant funds to improve that to increase the total phosphorus reduction by 27.8 pounds, excuse me, tipping into that 500 pound deficit that we're trying to reach. Other things that we look at are, and DNR allows you to do is 20 years of redevelopment at 40% TSS. We'll get you 67.5 pounds over a 20 year period. So you can cumulatively take credit for that as things redevelop in the city. We also are talking about changing from monthly to once every two weeks street sweeping to help with this to get 78 additional pounds. And then this water quality trading kind of helps us make up the difference. So we've got 10 pounds there and we'll talk about that a little bit more in a second. This is a location of those BMPs from alternative number one. And so you can see they're kind of throughout the city and some higher priority than others. And we are working on the Second Creek one, this project right now. A little bit more about water quality trading, it's really you're going up into the agricultural land and the map on the top right looks at some of the reaches that are they call reaches or watersheds within the TMDL. And you can trade with agricultural land. You can trade with other MS4s if they have or other communities, if they have excess treatment plans, private point dischargers, if they have excess. Typically people are going after agricultural land water quality trading, if they're going to at all. But there's certain steps you have to do to do that. It's not a simple thing either. But the third bullet here is Wisconsin Act 151 in 2020 created a framework for a third party clearinghouse or water quality trading clearinghouse. And that's supposed to allow you to sort of buy in and to this third party that would do projects and kind of ease the burden of trying to do it yourself. And the cost range on this is 125 to 150 pounds, $50 per pound of TP that present worth potentially higher. We'll see how it all plays out. The table on the left is some of these potential trading partners with treatment plants and other MS4s. And then some private point dischargers will be in a table in the draft TMDL. And then watershed adaptive management I talked about, and this is where point and non-point sources work together to protect and restore local water resources. And so you need one or more local treatment plants to initiate involves agricultural BMPs like BMPs for water quality trading. Some of the differences in things is the treatment plant can get a less restrictive interim phosphorus limit if pursuing WAM, a watershed adaptive management, it can extend over a 15 year timeframe up to three, five year permit terms. Again, those two bullets were more of a treatment plant issue. And then benefits of this are you can get to a 62 to 125 dollars per pound range, but it really assumes cost share dollars are available and counties provide technical outreach assistance. And if you look at the bottom right, there is an example of people doing this in the state, Yihara wins down here in the Madison area, MS4s buying at $50 a pound for TP and medicine met, Metropolitan Sewage District administers the program. They work with Dane County, who is a broker with agricultural BMPs for egg BMPs with farmers and then USGS has to do water quality monitoring, excuse me. So there's some people out there that are doing it, there's not a lot and it seems right now that there's not anything going on in Chihuahigan County. And there's a few other differences here if one were interested in knowing the difference between water quality trading and watershed adaptive management. So our analysis boils down to three alternatives that are a mix of different projects. Alternative one being eight structural BMPs plus non-structural BMPs plus water quality trading at a cost of 22.8 million and that dollar per pound TP removed is at 2280. So the lowest of these three alternative two takes a little bit different look at that and alternative three as well. So you can see the different 20 year net present worse and dollars per pound removed. What's included in these alternative one, eight structural BMPs relying on this 40% TSS redevelopment requirement for redevelopment over 20 years, increased street sweeping one pass every two weeks and some level of water quality trading with cultural lands. Number two is similar except it only has seven structural BMPs and so it's, we just selected a different or got rid of one BMP. Let's see. And then alternative three was four structural BMPs but looking at 80% TSS requirement for redevelopment which is a higher standard and then one pass every week for street sweeping and more water quality trading with egg lands. And so in the end, we kind of kept running with alternative one as the lower cost alternative of these after discussing it with Ryan and Scott and David. So we'll look more at how this would be implemented in a bit here, but I wanted to get to the concept level, stormwater utility. I know there's some talk about with always new costs maybe being a driver for a stormwater utility and we'll talk a little bit about the past here too what you guys have been doing. So we'll talk stormwater utility basics, stormwater utility budgets and next steps, benefits of a stormwater utility and implications of non-compliance with MS4 if you don't want to go down the path of compliance. So in the city's case, we came up with a stormwater budget each year, that's about 548,000. And if you take that out of take a look at what portion of the total city mill rate that is that's about $0.2 per thousand. And so if a property is assessed at $100,000 you'd pay approximately $20 per year or 40 if it was 200,000, et cetera. The stormwater utility is based on the fact that the developed land is the primary urban source of stormwater runoff. So the top left graphic is a basic field where water hits the ground and wants to go straight down rather than runoff, develop land on the right. Do you have a lot of impervious area where that water just wants to run to stormwater infrastructure that needs to then be maintained? And so the second bullet is the rate structure would be based on impervious area. So whereas a water utility you might have a meter reading your meter, at least for stormwater is impervious area because that amount of impervious area determines how much stormwater runoff you will have. And stormwater fees are seen as fair and equitable based on runoff from impervious area similar to water usage. You're using as much stormwater infrastructure as impervious area that you have. So it's a good comparison. So on the left graphic, an equivalent runoff unit is considered 3,100 square feet. And at least in this example, which would be one equivalent runoff unit. And so if you went to a non-residential property on the right, you would have many more times that in this case, in this example, you'd have 1.4 million square feet divided by that 3,100 square feet gives you a number of 465 ERUs in this case for this non-residential development. And on the bottom left is just a look of how a stormwater fee would be added to a utility bill, this case, whitewater. So just some basics for the city. You all adopted stormwater utility in 2003. You charge fees in 2004 and 2005, around $36 per ERU. I think David is a number that we had discussed. That was the annual charge, John. It was $3 per ERU, so 36 per ERU. That was $3 per ERU, I'm sorry. That's all right. 36 per year, I'll make that change on there. And then stopped charging fees back in 2006 for a variety of reasons. So when we look at a concept level stormwater utility feasibility study today, 2021, the number of square foot per ERU is 2,470, 49,683 ERUs in the city and your budget range. Once we put together an implementation plan of how you're gonna do this work, range from 550,000 up to 3.7 million. That was an annual rate on this basically 26 year planning period. And then the ERU cost range would be $11 to $58 per year along that route if you were to reinitiate a stormwater utility. And just for comparison's sake, there are 123 existing stormwater utilities in Wisconsin. And here's some average rates, $5.45 per month on the average, 71.45 per year, ranging from 11 to $210 a year. So what we're talking about here as well within the realm of what others are doing. So this is that stormwater utility budget table. A lot of information in here, but it breaks down all the different components of things the city has to do to be in compliance with the stormwater permit. And at the bottom of this, I talked about this $548,000 total and how that changes from year to year and what the annual cost per year you would need to be. And that projects out, I mean, I only have through 2025, we got that projected out through 2046. So there's some good information in here on projected costs that we're working from. So I guess the thing I wanna share here is that depending on how much you charge annually, you can get a certain amount of potential revenue, right? In this table, 704-1 to meet whatever need you might have and the need being shown on the right. And so that's where that annual charge would go up year to year. The other thing to note on the bottom left is the relocation of funding contribution by land class under a stormwater utility. So what happens on all stormwater utilities is the cost gets shifted to who's got more impervious area and who is tax exempt, okay? So let's just look at a couple of things like single family residential on the left under a property tax-based system, they're paying 52.7% of the cost. Whereas under a fee base, they're going 24.3% because they actually have less impervious area than some of the other areas. So you can look at tax exempt, that's how that works. Those would go up because they're not taxed right now. And now they would have a fee based on the storm on the impervious area. Likewise, industrial and manufacturing would go up as well as commercial. And that's because they have more, generally have more impervious area. So if you were to go forth with this, with a stormwater utility, the 2013 Wisconsin Act 20 puts a bit of a impediment to doing that because they say that the shift, if you shift costs to the utility from the general fund, you need to reduce the levy limits equivalent amount. And if you don't want a reduction of levy limits, you need to pass a referendum. And I guess what I would say is recommended that the city attorney weigh in on the city's ability to revive its stormwater utility that was adopted in 2003 in light of this Act 20 because you technically have one that's been adopted. And so do the levy limits apply? I think one would make a case that they probably do, but I think it's something that you want to talk with the city attorney about. So on the right, the graphic I'm showing is, of course, we have our stormwater plan update. We did this concept level stormwater utility feasibility study. If you did want to go forth into stormwater utility implementation, there are a fair number of steps in doing that, including what we typically recommend as a task force to talk with the affected parties and major landowners and things like that to talk about how this works. So everything's transparent, I guess. So we'd have to finalize the rate study. We'd have to do a billing system review, stormwater utility master account, develop ordinance and credit policy, billing system testing in previous area, a map book, public information and meetings. And some of this, some of the work done previously you could probably utilized in some fashion. And so if you want to head down this path, we would be talking with you and how best to do that, I guess. All right, so we're getting close to the end here, but stormwater utility benefits, it provides an equitable, stable, dedicated revenue source for stormwater related projects. And I think most communities that have these like them because of that, because there's always going to be a need, especially when you're in a TMDL situation or have flooding issues. Credit policy could reduce rates for non-residential customers. Revenue source allows planning and paying for stormwater quality improvements for MS-4 TMDL compliance and stormwater quantity improvements for flood control, I guess I already said that. And here's some kind of bigger picture benefits of completing at least stormwater quality projects under a stormwater utility, regulatory compliance, water quality ecology and fisheries improvements in lakes, rivers and streams, reduction of erosion in channels and creeks, quality of life and aesthetics improvements, resiliency to climate change and promotion of green infrastructure while on the flood control side, potentially reducing lawsuits, replace aging infrastructure, reduce flooding and ensure emergency vehicle access and preserve property values with people not being worried about flooding. So the implications of MS-4 non-compliance, I've sort of always asked this, is in the short term, if you're not in non-compliance, the DNR will work with you on a path to compliance. If you elect non-compliance, what I've been told is DNR has the authority to refer the community to the US Department of Justice, potentially subjecting the community to significant fines and nobody wants to go there, I don't think, but these are the answers I give just to, because I don't know that there's a better one. All right, so recommendations on the MS-4 program side or your stormwater permit side is to continue your existing and initiate updates to the stormwater programs discussed in section three. You're doing a lot of good things, right? But there's generally increased documentation for annual reporting. You need to implement the modified illicit discharge screening at the outfalls and I know I'm talking with Ryan about the task order on that side of things, the new erosion control and stormwater ordinances, the new construction site procedures, the new long-term maintenance of both public and private stormwater VMPs or best management practices on the stormwater quality side. So we talked about alternative one and you saw some of the graphics of the stormwater ponds. We have a whole section five that talks about this and you can look at the table there, but on a constructed BMP side, pursue DNR urban on-point source grant funds for any constructed BMPs and we started down that path with the city on the second creek dry to wet pond conversion and that's a great example of how to leverage the DNR urban on-point source grants. The next grant application deadline I messed that up is April 15th, 2022. And I think Ryan and David and Scott, the we can determine the priority of what to go after next after this webinar, because that's going to give some waste load allocations specific to different parts of the city and that would help us home in which project of the ones we defined you'd want to go after. On the water quality trading side, you could further investigate opportunities with other MSFORs and private point dischargers to the extent they're available, though I think the water quality trading clearing house under Act 151 is gaining some traction here. It's probably a few years out before you really see what that's all about. The DNR did have an RFP for companies that were interested in being that clearing house and that's a bit in its infancy yet, but I think you'll see some things happening there. Watershed adaptive management, if it materializes in the future, reanalyze city's position at that time. As I said, I'm not aware of anybody going down this path yet and it would have to be led by a treatment plan. One other thing you could do is get a total phosphorus credit for your leaf collection program and you could complete an analysis to determine that. That wasn't something that was part of our scope. It's something that the DNR is offering in the last couple of years and we've helped some communities figure out if they qualify for this credit based on how they pick up their leaves in the fall. All right, stormwater quantity. Consider pursuit of conveyance and detention upgrades discussed in section six to provide flood relief at those two hotspot areas. And then there are DNR municipal flood control grants available with the next grant application deadline being March 15th of 2022. These are typically things where monies would become available the next year and you'd have to use the money in two years. So it gives you some time to budget for these things that way. Lastly, stormwater utility. Consider reviving the stormwater utilities as described in section seven or budget appropriate mounts and general fund to fully implement stormwater programs. So that's the big picture on recommendations. The implementation plan this is something that DNR requires from the permit is how are you gonna lay this out? How are you gonna do all this? And so if you look here at the bottom they want you to get 10% of that TPU reduction gap by 2030. That number is 50.1 of that 500.5, I guess, rounded. And so we've laid out a plan here to every basically every four years do a project on the stormwater quality side. And you can see the second creek one here is in 2023. We're designing it in 2022 when that actually gets built is within next year, let's say. And so then it gives you this list of projects that you can pursue whether or not these this is the exact order the DNR wants to see an order. This seems to be a good order because Wilson and ninth would be probably a good one because it does flood control and stormwater quality control as well as a Union Street underground, the next two we kind of put those in for that case because they do provide water quality and quantity or flooding benefit. So if you wanna know more about that there's more discussion in the report or if you have any questions I can certainly answer them. With that brings us to questions and answers and I can leave this screen up. I'm trying to figure out if I can see anybody without. Go ahead, Marcus. Good job, we got some questions just ain't tight. John, you're gonna have to forgive me. A lot of the stuff in your report was wonky, I guess would be the best way to describe it. Can we start with what are TPs? Quick definition. Oh, total phosphorus. Total phosphorus. Where does total phosphorus come from in the city of Sheboygan? Okay, the total phosphorus comes from runoff from land. Okay, so perhaps. How does it get on the land? Does like just me having a plot of land just generate phosphorus or how does it get? Yes, the way this goes is this windslam model was put together based on a bunch of scientific data with monitoring of land of runoff from the various different land types and what they found in the storm sewer after runoff events included phosphorus and TSS and an array of pollutants, the DNR and EPA have decided that total suspended solids and total phosphorus are the pollutants of concern. I think if you reduce those pollutants, you reduce other pollutants in general, but yeah, there's a pollutant buildup in our environment of TSS and phosphorus for sure that you regulate it on at least. So it is like phosphorus of fertilizer for, what percentage of the pollution in the rivers currently is coming from agricultural land versus what's coming from our city? So I don't know that number exactly, but the TMDL document which hasn't yet come out has probably breakdowns of that because we didn't model agricultural land so I wouldn't be able to give you that number. I do know what's at least modeled to come off the city of Sheboygan lands. Okay, so a lot. There's a lot, and here's a debate, we have quite frequent with the DNR and the DNR says we don't regulate agricultural lands, that's another agency and the farmland runoff is controlled and they have buffer strips that they work with the farmers and that so they're not nearly as regulated as the DNR for urban environments. And a lot of like what John is saying, that's why streets we've been so important because it picks up the solids and debris and that's where a lot of the runoff in the TSS is total suspended solids and that phosphorus attaches to those solids and that's how it gets into the water and that's why when we have the retention ponds, if there's solids still in the street or running off of property or running down spouts, that runoff gets to the ponds, that settlement settles down and then clear water then releases to the rivers and streams. So that's all the kind of the whole philosophy and a real quick scenario and sorry John to interject, but I'm just trying to so you can get your head kind of around some of the, but as you saw since 1996, we have that debate frequently. We construction site erosion control. We have many construction sites. We put up all these barriers to control runoff from these construction sites, but right next to it, when we're out in the edge of the community, there's a farmer that's plowing up acres for his corn with no, so it's frustrating, but again, it's two different agencies and it's land uses and it's regulated differently. So yes, but we have to comply. Yes, that's the bottom line. Right, you have this MS board permit. If you don't comply, well, the DNR will do a little stop on development until you comply with this permit. You're doing all these requirements in this book. Okay, so then my next question, still on just definitions here. What is DDE and the inspection of outfalls? Oh, IDDE is illicit discharge detection and elimination. It's a fancy word for basically looking at the Andrew outfall to see if there's anything coming out that shouldn't be such as oil or grease, stuff that people might have dumped that should not be in the waterway. And just to clear that outfall is the point in which the sewer steps in the river or stream begins. Okay, thank you. What is a VORTECH unit? VORTECH unit is basically an underground treatment unit. I think you guys have it down there. It treats stormwater before it goes out. It's a box underground that has a wet pool in it. It's a specialized manhole, large chamber that in the urban setting, we don't have a lot of area to put a big pond. We'll put one of these units in. It's a VORTECH, it's kind of like a brand. And what it is is that it has a chamber in there that will separate some of the oil from the water and some of the debris. And then it has also a settling basin within there. And then it will, again, it's like a mini cleansing type of system. It can't handle a lot of water, but in tight areas where you're like next to a parking lot where you can take a lot of the stuff that's going on with cars and cigarette butts and you name it, that can be in a parking lot. It helps. Okay, what is a BMP? Best management practice. Which is the stormwater, the underground stormwater, the VORTECH unit. And in a variety, it's like our street sweeping program, our recycling that we collect, use mortar oil at our drop-offs. We get credit for some of that type of activity. So it's a variety, a long-bending laundry risk of management practices, best management practices, I guess, that all add up to credit on your program for water quality. And then my next question, John probably wouldn't be the best one, you might be the best one for this one. It seems like the DNR is putting an unfunded mandate for us to have cleaner water and the state legislature is not allowing us to raise taxes in appropriate level to take care of that. So we're trying to go through a stormwater utility and then just charge our people more to take care of this. Well, they would say that you've already have a permit and you had an opportunity back in the early, in the mid-90s and we had a utility and we were funding this. So when they had programs all to grant monies to startup utilities to get this all going and so forth. So all this is is really a rewrite and an update of the permitting program. So it's, they're adjusting some numbers and it's based on water quality. So water quality is not improving with what's happened since the 90s in some cases, in many cases it has. And as I think you could see there, we have on that one slide where he had the city he had red areas with nothing in yellow where we've had improvements. But we have to go beyond that yet. We're not quite there. And in order to get there, we have to do additional improvements. Now, if we, the city kept the utility back when it was, we would be probably in a much better position. But you're, the things are mentioning, we mentioned 20 years ago, unfunded. Why is this coming down to this? How are we going to fund this? And they had grant opportunities. They say, get this in place. And that's why you have 123 communities in the state that have these utilities now in place. My final question before I relinquish the floor would be specifically if we are going to fund this somehow most likely through our taxpayers with either a fee or a impervious area equivalent or whatever that was. I was looking at a map of acuity. It looks like they have several detention ponds already. Were they going to get credit for that because they're already taking care of their stuff? How does that work? They would, there's a policy within, if we would go down the utility creation and look at that, there's a whole another policy that gets developed for those that treat their own runoff on their own property prior to it being discharged. They would get credits for that. Okay. Yes. Thank you. I guess I have a question going with that. How would the tax levy is the biggest question is how is this going to affect our tax levy where we're going to have to roll back tax levy because of that? Is that, I guess that's a Thomas because he said that so the attorney would have to. It appears that way from everything. And I think what we would have to do is work with the attorney's office as well as the mayor's office and your call the council, all the persons. And we might have to talk with our state legislators and say, hey, you know, should we have this? Is there any opportunity with the new budget or carving out legislation that, you know, we understand if you're a new community and we want to do this for the new, but we had one. And really it's still in place in our ordinance. It's just our fee is zero today. We're not charging a fee, but the mechanism in the ordinance is kind of in place. So that could be the debate, I guess. And that's what we would have to investigate. Okay, how would we, if that is something we would want to pursue in the future, that's how we would have to set up some of those talking points and how could we go about it? Okay. Mr. Chair. Yes, go ahead. So I wanted, you are using interchangeably tax levy and new community. No, there's one or the other. So it would be either one or the other would be implemented, right? Correct. Okay. So as far as the utility goes, I understand that the utility would be, the utility fee would be based on ERUs, right? Yes. And the ERUs are determined through the quality of the water or through the impervious land or both. It's based on impervious land. Impervious land. So it doesn't matter who pollutes most or more. Well, it, because I assume that manufacturers pollute more than residents. So wouldn't that be, shouldn't that have an impact on the calculation of the, if not of the ERUs, but through the parameters by which we assess utilities? It's, in theory, I would agree with you, but in practicality, we couldn't, we can't test every source of runoff from each property. So what they do is they base it on quantity. So it's based on, here's the impervious area. So when it rains a quarter of an inch, this property is going to send this amount of quantity. Therefore it's, there's a calculation that's easily identifiable. And basically within that water column, it's pretty consistent in terms of what that runoff has within it. And is that, that is common practice or there are other practices that are implemented? For example, based on what the manufacturer produces? John, I think it could correct me if I'm wrong, but the standard practice is on quantity and impervious square footage. Yes, it's based on impervious square footage. And, you know, it's, I mean, if there's flooding issues as well, you have a storm sewer system that conveys water, that's not necessarily water quality based. So it's, the utility is paying for a mix of things, not just water quality, it's water quantity and conveyance. And the standard practice is this ERU calculation nationwide. Okay. I have just, I don't want to take much more of your time because I know that Andre has more questions, but I have two more questions. One is, do we have access, so are we compliant right now? Yes. Yeah, with our current permit, we're in compliance with our current permit. We're scheduled for a re issuance and based on some of the new parameters coming out, they're going to say, we're not going to be meeting those new standards, but there's a timeline. It's not like, here you go, here's the new standard. You have to meet it tomorrow. So when are these new standards going to be in effect? Well, we'll get a preview in two days and then there's a public hearing. I'm assuming later this summer or early by fall, I'm not quite sure what that schedule was. I'm going to move to it here real quick. So what has to happen is you have this webinar, they're going to eventually, so those would be draft allocations, they're going to have a public hearing. And then if there's comments that would change these draft allocations, they would make modifications issue a final TMDL document, which ends up going to the EPA. EPA takes a number of months to review that and they're talking about anticipated start of the TMDL implementation phase of, I'm just going to say January 1, 2023. But it could be later that year, these things do drag out a little bit we're behind by six months. So mid 2023, maybe. Again, that's not, that's to me just speculating based on the timeline, they've general timeline they've given here. All right, so we are currently compliant with WDNR, but we already know that we will not be compliant with the new parameters becoming affecting, let's say in a couple of years. We know that. Right. Part of it is like, like John mentioned, we have 14 of these retention plans in the city and they were all built 25, 30 years ago like the one at 29th of Geely. They were the standards. Now they're not anymore. So they have to kind of be rehabbed, I guess for a better word, it is the energy work done. And finally, I just wanted to know historically, how often it happens that WDNR goes after cities that are not compliant? I'm just curious about that. Was that a question of how often do they go after people that are non-compliant? If a city is not compliant, how often does inactuality happen that the WDNR goes after cities, non-compliant cities? I'm not sure about the permit non-compliance, but I can tell you on parameters for best management practices, we've been cited as a community on projects that if, for instance, stormwater or for erosion control from a construction site, if there's deficiencies or failures in there after a storm and there's an inspection, they'll say, get it fixed, get it fixed now. And so there's a dialogue, but it happens and it's their role and they're the enforcement agency to protect the natural resources. So they take it very seriously. And so what we're trying to tell you here is it's important for the city to take this seriously and it is a lot of money, but we're gonna figure out a plan to continue. And I think as you'll hear later on this evening with another presentation, there's steps that we're gonna be taking to ultimately track this better in the future. Thank you very much. Thank you, John, for the presentation. Thank you for the patience and thank you for the answer. Andre. Hey, how are you? Hey, thank you. I have two questions. One, how does an underground wet pond work? And I'll ask my second one after that. It's very similar to an above ground. It's just there's really no open space. So we have 18th and Wilson. Yeah, 18th. Mead. So there was a section by Mead Avenue that has had historical flooding in the past. And what it is is we built basically an underground vault with concrete sections of pipe. And it fills up, it pretty much it's empty during normal times, but when it rains, it will fill up and store water in there temporarily to reduce flooding above ground. And then once the rain event stops, hopefully within short, you know, it's short. It's usually for short, really intense periods, not for long, for long, long, heavy periods, but it will fill up and then once the rain stops, it will slowly receive to smaller pipes that can handle it. What happens is a lot of times we have these big downpours, huge rain, the pipes aren't large enough, things will fill up in the street. It stops raining, you ever notice how it just goes away after it stops raining? Things are able to catch up finally. And my second question was about the total phosphorus. I think I'm looking at the right thing. It says, so if I'm getting this right, the phosphorus goes into the stream and then is that sent to the wastewater facility? No, and that's the difference between, all the storm sewers are directly connected to streams, rivers, and Lake Michigan. And that's, so that's, it's a separated system. Okay. Steve at the plant also treats phosphorus within the wastewater as well. So he's got a limit as well, but it's different than what this is. I don't know. We collected all that storm water, we need a plant. Okay. Okay, yeah, then that clears it up a little bit. Appreciate that. Very quick question. Okay, I got one of those. So now you're mentoring the gallery. Are these plans, ideas where we were thinking about putting, or ideas that we have that now this distro, and do we have, have we had dialogue with like the rail, with the rail to, to you and Dave, we open for these things, yes, we don't know. Not, not yet. No, and again, that's why we want, this is kind of conceptual, this is the plan. These are, you know, ideas at this stage. Then, you know, again, we're gonna focus on some of our existing, the 29th and Geely's probably upgrade that and we get some credit for phosphorus removal right away with that project. And it's, it's a facility we already own. Eventually, yeah, as we get further along in those extended out years, we're gonna have to look at some of these other projects and in private partnerships, our private property acquisition potential. I don't know. As you can see, storm water management that's up in a city the size of, in the size of the city, 50 miles, it's complicated, it's complicated and it's expensive. And then, I was gonna say, there are grants for both the urban on point source and the municipal flood control grant, both you can get money for property acquisition, you know, if that's part of it. So, first Marcus and then Grosy. So we're already like a mid-level taxing municipality inside of the county. If we're adding another 40 bucks to each homeowner on any of the basis or some member, does that same kind of cost get passed on to people who have septic systems out in the town of Sheboygan or are they gonna just be a more attractive option to go and live in? That's the same type of question we heard in 2000, remember, two? Two, yeah, two. This is gonna be a detraction for people to not build in Sheboygan, they're gonna move all out of here and for two years, we didn't see it. And again, the 123 communities that have it, so it's not like you're gonna be able to pick up and just move to another community that doesn't have it, in other words. In terms of the business and the factories and the business sector, we have the infrastructure, we have the critical manassas employees, but you're right, you're penalized for being a city, in other words. Now, the outlying areas aren't under the same rules. So if they're going through the same thing and they're gonna have to figure out how to make their improvements, the city of falls, city of Plymouth, Polar, town of Sheboygan, so they're all part of our watershed. So it's not like just because they live next door and they're not a city, it doesn't apply to them either. You answered my question well. Thank you. If I understood correctly, you were predicting $11 per EIU as a utility fee. Would you think of the same type of increase as far as tax revenue? I mean, the equivalent. Yeah, I guess if we have to take a look at, you know, the program, the budget, and if we went to the utility, we would look at the total ERUs that we have in the city and come up with a dollar figure. In the past, back in 2000, it ended up being $3 a month for a single family residence in the city of Sheboygan. So $36 annual cost. So, I mean, and that generated, I wanna say about $1.2 million on an annual basis. And I think my memory is fading a little bit. So, yeah, but I mean, that covered a portion of operations such as street sweeping are operations at the service building here for maintenance on the storm sewer system, but it also was a large portion that went to capital projects. Now, you build that up over, you know, five years or four years where you have, let's say, a half a million dollars that is set aside for projects. You have $2 million or $2.5 million, let's say. Then you can build one of these larger infrastructure projects to help meet these controls. So that's kind of, you don't need it all within one year.  And then you do one of these larger projects, maybe once every five years. It's not every year I need $2.5 million and I gotta get this all done. The DNR, as long as you're making progressive progress and you're showing that you are doing an effort and you're doing projects, it will work with you. So this also has the goal of us getting a permit, correct? Okay, so would we get a permit regardless of when we will be, let's say we would be able to progressively become compliant with a five years, 10 years range. Would we get the permit from the response to DNR? We're gonna get the permit regardless of, I guess, we're gonna have to have a permit. It's then the question's gonna be how do we fund it? So do we just continue to fund it as we're doing today, tax levy, and then go out for borrowed money and go out for bonds and then build a project with bonds? We can also use grants and use that. That will help reduce some of the costs, but it's not gonna pay for ongoing annual programs that are gonna be added as an expense to this. So that's, you know, we might, the first five years, we might not need a utility because we use some grants and we have some capital improvements planned and we're gonna borrow the funds. But as we move forward, and as you look at it strategically, we have other capital projects. We have roads to build, we have sewer systems to put in.  So we can only slice that up in so many ways.  So that's the kind of the next discussion in terms of where we're going. Yes, I have a little question. If we do it as a utility, does it have to be run through like with our water bills that can it still be added onto our tax bill or is it only tax levy, only allowed on tax bill? Because the one thing is, is you hear from a lot of people the complaints about, it just keeps going up, all the other fees going on, that's the constituents complaints. They would almost, they'd rather just have it on their tax bill. Is that possible? And I guess that's a question for the future. Yeah, I got it. Good question. Because that's one thing people would route, they would probably prefer to have it on their tax bill, but not necessarily as a tax levy. We could do it as a utility, but as an honor tax bill. And here's another thing to consider is, we as a city are limited on our tax levy by the state legislature. So if we want to add this just to the taxes, we might not be able to because it's too much. Then it will be kind of going to a referendum. Do we want to go above our limit limit to fund this program? And so it's, we're going to give to a point where we're going to have some of these real tough decisions of how do we pay for all these different programs and what's the best way to do it? I mean, I think a lot of community input and dialogue on this, I'm not saying the utility is the only way to do it. There's many ways to fund this. We just have to make sure the community understands the options and what do they prefer? Well, I guess my question is, is it so good as a utility and not as a tax levy? Can we build that onto a tax bill or is that a no-no? I'm not sure. Okay. Sorry, Jeff. Okay, no problem. All right, I guess anybody else have questions? I guess we're good. I really appreciate all that information. Yes, this is a lot of information. Thank you. It's a lot. This has been a lot to digest, I guess. Again, that's why we just wanted to, because we want to present the data, there's going to be some ordinances and resolutions coming in the future to adopt some things, but take some time. Okay. All righty. Well, thank you all for listening and the great questions and tried to pack it all in. And if you have any other questions, let me know. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'm going to sign off and have a good rest of your meeting. Okay. All righty. We'll move to 3.2 and 3.3 and 3.4. Because since they're all related, we're going to put them all together as one. Resolution 107, 21, 22, 10. 8, 21, 22 and 109, 21, 22. Authorizing, accepting the easement for mini sewers, molitor, pilon, and white. Yep. We're installing it. I mean, it's not sure if it's time to get here. I talked about four, eight, ten inch type. We pull back yards, they can connect to some pumps to it in the back of their house. One's over on Riverdale Avenue. We need an easement to get in their yards, and Salt 10 Street and Westmont Drive. To prove. Thank you. That's the question. To prove. Reading about what easements are and how I know. Can you just explain that? Okay, you, let's say, let's say, let's say we need to put a pipe in someone, along someone's back property line. That homeowner owns a property. It just gives us permission to put that pipe in there and maintain it. It gives us, he's forever. The last thing you want to do is put a pipe in, and the homeowner says, or business, well you can't come back here anymore, fix that pipe or maintain it. So it gives us permission to use that property. But it's very explicit just to maintain that pipe and do install it. Usually these easements are like 5 feet wide. It's not like they're 50 feet wide. And there are no conditions, right? There is no fee exchange, no money exchange. Symbolic money exchange, no, none of that. The reason the neighbors will give us the easements is because we're fixing their problem. Otherwise there's some pulp roads constantly and their backyard you can't use it, and they, you know, it's just, it's all wet. You know, they're putting the pipe in their yard, there's a lot of lasers, so that's a trade-off. Plus they don't, they don't pay for the insulation of the sewer either. So if they want it, if they want it easy to give us the easement, then that's, yeah, yeah, we don't pay for it at all, okay? Alrighty, motion made in second. Any other questions on it? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes aye. Those are approved. Okay, resolution 3.5, by authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter into a contract with J.H. Ossinger, Incorporated for the renovation of 1817 North East Creek to be used as the new location for Uptown Social, the Shabuigan Senior Activity Center and authorizing, raising the appropriate city officials to make the necessary budget adjustments and appropriations to fund, provide funding for this contract. Mr.  We had two bids. J.H. Ossinger's construction on Manamani Falls was a little bitter. They need all the requirements and I know Emily from the senior centers here, I think Chad's online and Thomas has done quite a bit of work as well in terms of reviewing contracts and funding because one of the key components is the large portion of the funding is coming from this CBDG funding loan from the feds and I know it's quite complicated but Thomas and Chad have really worked hard to secure this and I know Emily's really excited and as well as the seniors and I guess if you'd like to entertain any other questions with the rest of the participants that would be fine as well but looking for your approval. I'm curious about a couple of things. So go ahead. Do we normally seek more than two, seek three bids or we just go, if there is only one bid, what do we do? Or we seek at least two or we go for three, I don't know. We've had bids where we've only had one contractor. We look at the engineer construction as an estimate of the project and if it's well above and doesn't make sense, we will reject it. But if it's one bid and it's within what we've looked at industry wide and the numbers look good, we can accept one bid. In this case, there was like, I believe five different contractors that showed up for the pre-bid meeting that looked at the project, were interested in the project but given the economy, supply chain and work that's all out there, only two were really interested in pursuing the project. And would they do the whole project completely? Phase one of construction. Right. They'll have some contractors that will work under the general. So the general's responsible for hiring the plumber, the electrician, that so. Very good, thank you. Mr. Chair, this is Chad Peleshek. If I can just add a couple. So the section 108 as David referenced is a CDBG, a federal advancement basically of our yearly entitlement. Thomas and I had worked on this for over a year and we had a conference call today and it looks like we're gonna finalize this and get our first slug of money sometime in the first week of January. What I would say is it's funding, the section 108 would fund 2.7 million of this project. There's 500,000 in there for reimbursement of the purchase price. So the total section 108 loan is 3.2 million. The difference of roughly 786,000 or so is coming from the city's contribution from the American Rescue Plan Grant. There is some stipulations related to that funding program though that we're gonna have to work with Emily on as she gets into the building as it relates to maybe being a site for future vaccinations because that's where the funding is coming from. But we believe that we can work through those things and fund the difference to be able to award this contract tonight between the two programs, the two federal programs, the section 108 and the American Rescue Plan and then a small contribution of 89,000 from the Friends for the Senior Activity Center to deal with a pillar or podium or whatever you call it in the middle of the gym. Everything I think is in order and we feel comfortable moving forward and we have a few minor adjustments and documents that'll come into council for the section 108 over the next two council meetings but everything should be ready to award this and start moving forward with construction. Questions? Hi. Any other questions? No, I'm moving to a through. Second. Motion is made and seconded. I guess my only other question I have is are they looking at any local subcontractors at all in this? I believe so, I don't know who though. The general would be outside. Okay. Whoever that general wants to pick for subcontractors, that's gonna be up to them. Hopefully it'll be some local, some subcontractors like David was saying, clubbing, electrical. I know that the mechanical, some of the mechanical subs that were there were pretty much all locals. I know, yeah, but I have yet to see who they decided on. Okay, all right. All right, any other questions? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Terrible tie, that is approved. Okay. 3.6. And, okay, 3.6, Resolution 15, 2021, 2021, 12. Direct referral, a resolution authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter to a contract with spec electric incorporated to replace the generator and perform related electrical upgrades at the municipal service building. This is, Mike. Hold up for some decor. I was gonna say excuse me. First of all, I wanna thank Bernie Romer and an attorney Cameron and stuff like that for this. We're getting all the paperwork, the agreement with spec electric and everything, giving this thus far. This is a project that we started early, early this year in January with MSA Engineering. They were the electrical engineer that spearheaded this project and stuff like that. They were also spearheaded the senior project. No, and I think through the city, we worked with MSA for many projects throughout so many years. So this is one of those progressive things that David has started and I'm fully with this. It's just progressing on updating this building. It's gonna be a 56 year old building in a few more weeks. So as David is. Sorry. Ready to hang out with us. So all of this is replacing the original generator and along with all the electrical panels that are out dated. Meaning we can't, there are no serviceable parts and parts that we cannot obtain anymore. So this is really a 21, 22 kind of project. It kind of morphed into one because engineering it as one project saved almost $10,000 just an engineering cost. So we, here we are at the end of the year and it's just basically the 21 monies that are rolling the 22 and talking to Caitlin and stuff like that. If those funds transfer, it just, it's aged. There's gonna be some value in the generator that we have for reselling and stuff like that. And that's another thing that Mr. Roberts and I'll probably end up putting on Wisconsin's service. Maybe help this a little bit. On the good side, we're well with, well, we're well within budget. So I think we have budgeted in the area of $400,000. And I think the speculative came in around 328 I'm sorry, don't have the numbers. Well, 328, 329. So we're well within the whole budget for the generator and the electric panel update for 21, 22. The bad part. So we just got kind of got updates a little bit. It's not bad, but with the supply chain and everybody knows, you know, here in this room what the supply chain looks like right now. So we just got a small update. They're almost looking at 60 weeks out for just the generator itself. That pushes me into 23. I'm not, I'm hoping that changes as we go into 22. There's a ton of work that they can do right to the generator installation. Meaning what they have found for the electrical element is there's so many updates that need to be done on the, well, I don't want to get into electrical code, code 700 if you want to get really bored with it. That's, that takes a lot of lighting, emergency lighting and all has to get updated. So, but that's all, it's all within this whole budget. Like I said, we have a really, really good cushion, about $16,000 cushion. If there are any unforeseen things that SpectElectric comes up with, so I'm hoping any questions on this one. This is basically just a continuation of what we already, for this is the second phase of this is basically what this is. This is phase one and phase two put together. Okay.  Meaning it's all electrical rather than trying to do this all twice and doubling my cost with engineering costs. It was the engineer who really suggested to David and I want you to put them together, see that tender and bring this all in thought and to basically one project and bid out as one. And we, I think we would like to know we got better pricing doing it this way versus trying to do it on two separate years and stuff like that. So. Okay.  You said the next generator might not come till 23. Will the current generator hold out until then? Yes. Okay. We've had a little long for, you know, 55 years or 56, it's a strong generator. It's very undersized. We're, you know, we're installing a generator. We're recording on a generator that if DPW ever needs to expand, that generator will still hold that expansion up to almost half the square footage of this building. So it's not a generator that's, we're just locked into this. It's a generator that will bring us well into a future song. And will that be within the timeframe or to be within compliance for update? Oh yeah. Yes, yes. We're looking for the core part. We're within all those updates. And that's the engineer who looks at that as we move forward. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Motion to approve. Second. Motion is made and seconded. Any other discussion? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes aye. That is approved. Now we're going to go with 3.7 through 3.9 because they're all the same also. Other different locations. Different locations. Do we want to do or do we want to do? We'll do it separately. We'll do it separately? Okay. Okay. Okay. 3.7 general ordinance 30, 21, 22. Document 6.1 in ordinance creating parking limits so as to add a two hour parking limit between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. except Sundays and holidays on a portion of the south side of Union Avenue between South 14th Street and Henry Street. Okay. An individual that recently purchased this building at the corner of 14th Union bought the building and they started a small business. And what they'd like to have right now through this area here, it's pretty much unlimited parking just in front of their business here. They would just like to have a two hour parking limit with their business. A lot of people just come in, pick up whatever they get and the way they go. So they're asking for one spot, two hour parking, 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. This Monday, Monday, two Saturday, very reasonable. There is no parking over here on this side of the road right here now because the road is so narrow it would never support two sides parking. And if you look at some of the smaller businesses along Union Avenue, a lot of them have the two hour parking. There's several small businesses in this street. So. Which business is that? They just started like a health business with vitamins and stuff like that. And they just recently opened it up. It was the hardware. Yeah. Oh, okay. I've heard of it. So. Let's come through. Second. Most we've made in the second. And any other discussion then? All in favor? Aye. All right. Any opposed? It's a terrible tie. That's approved. I'll go to 3.8. General Ordinance 3121-22, document 6.2, an ordinance creating a no parking zone on the north side of Union Avenue west of South 25th Street. Yes. I had some neighbors. Union Avenue, it's an extremely busy street. I really got a good feel for this last summer when we reconstructed Union Avenue in 26th of Taylor. This week it's a lot of traffic. And it gets somewhat parked tight from Wisconsin Sausage. And what happens here is it vehicles as parks were closer to this corner. And part of the reason people parks were closer to the corner is there is no crosswalk marked here. The reason there's no crosswalk marked because you can't put one in because the crosswalk will be right at some of the driveway. A lot of times if there's a crosswalk marked here, we'll really emphasize that people see that and they kind of use it as a boundary of where to park. There's nothing here. So we're just gonna pull back parking 30 feet from the corner here. That's all we're gonna do. Just to clear that corner up a little bit. Some of the neighbors, I've gone by this several times and they just pushed it a little bit. And really if you're pushing the 30 feet, you're not even taking it one spot away. So you're not putting a big curve in the neighborhood. So again, the request makes sense. So that could be to remind that people keep parking in the corner. Right, they park real tight to the corner. There's a little crosswalk there. Right, there's a little crosswalk here. And it will be because it leads right to the right to some of the driveway. You don't want to do that. So that was the request. It made sense. Thank you. Motion to approve. Second. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? General Osai has approved. Mr. Chair? Yes. We have to go back actually to the generator. Because I just have to have an amendment on the account number. Okay. There was the account number in the original resolution is wrong. So I apologize for that. So I need to then, I guess, I guess Thomas, how do you want me to do this? Do we have to? Thomas is off right now. I think what we have to. We're going to amend it. So Thomas is working on a sub resolution. Right. Because this was a multi-year. There's a difference in account numbers due to the fact that some of the original funds were borrowed and the funds for 2022 are not. So I think. Therefore the account number changes. Marcus, you need the original resolution to approve it? Yeah. So if you would say, I would like to amend the original resolution to then someone could second it. That way we can get it. I would like to amend my original motion to include the change in account numbers per whatever needs to get changed when I'm giving those numbers. Yeah. Second. Okay. I'll put it. Yeah. She's been made and seconded to amend it. No, I won't. Any discussion? All in favor? I'm just thinking, so shouldn't we have that? Oh, no. So it's conditional to the amendment. The approval is conditional to the amendment. Correct. Right. Correct. Okay. So when this goes to council, they'll, we'll have this document amended with the correct. And we'll have an amendment resolution to the correct. The amended. Yes. That is correct. Aye. Okay. Any opposed? Thank you. Chair votes aye. That is approved. Okay. And then we go back to 3.9. Or no. Yeah, 3.9. dental ordinance 32, 21, 22, document 6.3. Nordin's creating three no parking zones in the vicinity of Greenfield Avenue and South 9th Street. Okay. This is the Sheboygan Christian High School area. And starting this, this last year, I guess, like in May, they, they, they close their school now in Gilea Avenue. We're all about, I think, they put an addition on this. This is an old area. They put an addition on, bigger parking lot, everything. Now all their students from kindergarten through high school are at this location here. So therefore, obviously it's gotten busy with traffic and everything else. So our department's been working with the Sheboygan Christian High School on getting it to be orderly for parking. And they actually do a really good job of educating the parents for pickup and the school buses. They, they do all that on their own. But they do have one issue here with this skewed intersection. People just come a little bit earlier to pick up their kids for every reason and they parked this corner super tight. So we just want to put some no parking, kind of like similar we did on Union, 30 feet stay away from the corner and then no parking around the corner here and also no parking right here. Just to keep that intersection opened up. It's, it's narrow as you can probably see Greenfield and skewed. So that's, that's all they ask for. Always for the most part, they do all of their own. I've been out there, like I said, they've done a good job of educating the drop off pickup out there for their, for their students. So that's all they're asking. We're just cleaning up this intersection a little bit. And again, you're not really putting any hurt on the neighborhood up there because there's no houses around there. Right. Is it really that much of a benefit if we stop along the park, to park that closest corner to the school? Right here? Yeah, so like, what does that hurt? What are the, what are we not being able to see? They don't want, they don't want people parking, parking, yeah, they, Are they using it so they cross walk? Cross walk? Yeah, yeah. Plus they just want to keep cars away from this corner because I know, I know they've done a lot of outreach in the neighborhood. That's one of the complaints it got from the neighborhood is that the intersection gets a little congested in the morning curve, you know, and also in the afternoon. So actually, they do a good job there. So. Right. So drive through, right? Mm-hmm. So that's all it is. You're going to put how many? No parking here for 30 feet, no parking around the corner here, and also then no parking right through here is to keep that open. Very good, thank you. That's it, yep. I move. That's it. Second, made second. Any other discussion? All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Turbo's aye, that is approved. Okay, then we go to 3.10. Resolution 112-1-22, document 7.3, resolution authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute agreements with Rupert and Milky Incorporated and Data Transfer Solutions, LLC, regarding the purchase and implementation of the ViewWorks Enterprise Asset Management System and authorizing appropriate city officials to make the necessary budget adjustments and appropriations to further provide funding for these agreements. Mr. Chairman. Yes. I have a presentation. It's going to take me probably about 20 minutes to go through. Okay. I don't know if you want to take a break. And if you're ready just to pull out through this, I apologize that this had to end on the same night as John in his stormwater presentation. But this is really important. And I'm sure we've talked about this, the city administrator with the strategic plan and what we talked about capital improvements program. This has been funded in the capital improvements program and it's been a long time to get to this evening that we have agreements in place. And so I want to just go through this this evening, explain what this is about and the importance of it for not only just the Department of Public Works but for the city of Shamborgan as a whole. So. One second. Quick, keep going. I'm good, I'm good. Plow through, plow through. Okay. All right, go ahead. Thank you. Is there anyone else still online? Or do you need to still be there to record? Thank you. They'll be able to see it. They'll see it. Is it working? Of course there's voices today. Okay. Well. Okay. And I will do this.  Oh, click with a mouse on the like that screen. Yeah. There we go. There we go. Okay, Marcus. Do you want me to click back on the screen so I can try it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Imagine, design, build. That's what public works for you. You gotta click on this. There we go. All right, thank you. So, I'm going to give a brief, kind of get an introduction. I'm going to describe the current state internally and externally of the Department of Public Works and kind of give you an overview of that with the background of our business problem. What we've researched and talked about the opportunity statement moving forward, which includes an overview of enterprise asset management. And that's it. EAM is going to hear this acronym. And what it really is is that it's a philosophy and a software program that will provide all of our data and link it with our mapping systems. Talk a little bit about the scope and limitations of this project and have a conclusion. Public Works and Infrastructure, it's really simple. It's really the structures, facilities that are developed, acquired by public agencies that provide water, power, waste, disposal buildings and similar services. I have this graphic up here just to kind of give you a sense of the size and the enormity of what Public Works manages for the city. We're almost 16 square miles in size. 200 miles of streets, 36 parks, 210 miles of almost sanitary sewer, 185 of storm sewer, 30,000 different types of signs we have that we manage. Almost 20,000 trees. So large, large inventory, a large area to manage all of this infrastructure. And there's a tremendous amount of data. So overall, our infrastructure condition is average and good in some areas. And that's really when we look at, if you've probably heard of American societies of civil engineers, scorecard, right? Their grade report. And nationally, we're all about like a C minus. Cheboyan's right in there. The city of Cheboyan is over 150 years old. And as our city ages, so does our infrastructure. And this is not unique to, you know, Cheboyan. This is consistent throughout the nation. Here it is. There's our grade where C minus, kind of like my grades in school. After World War II, the city of Cheboyan rapidly had expansion. Just like the nation. Baby boomers, right? So there was development of housing, roads, sewer. We were in this expansion mode. Let's build. Let's build. We're gonna get out there. So this next is kind of a map of the city of Cheboyan of how it grew over the years. And you can see like in the middle, there's big chunks of land and how we just expanded. And that was, you know, a lot of that was during and after World War II. But ever since then, you know, we have these smaller little patches of growth than annexations of development. Just gives you a sense of how the city has grown. This also, this graph here shows kind of, it correlates with those decades. You can see right from the 50s, 60s, and 70s how our streets just went up in terms of how much we were working on. And ever since the 70s, it's been kind of going down ever since in terms of new and what we've constructed. So our main objective is really to preserve and extend the life of our existing infrastructure. That's where the most of our effort goes as a department. Infrastructure management as a whole has been really reactive and not proactive over the years. So we wanna get to proactive management. So in order to get there, it needs comprehensive data, modeling information systems to help prioritize and identify where best to maximize our investment. This is our current state. We have tons and tons of legacy documents and books and paper like this in the department. Just volumes, remember 150 years of data, card catalogs of when streets were constructed, who did the work, what were the proceedings, everything's recorded on card catalogs. We have microfilm, we actually got a little technical and we got from the 70s to the 90s stuff on microfilm. So we're working at it. And these are all our individual plumbing records and sewer records that we also have for every single property in the city. I really want you to focus on this picture because everything that we do currently for design in mapping is digital. And you can see the two screens with the road and design and work, but you can see all the data is still in books. So in order to research something, we have to go to the right book. And it makes it very difficult to look for relationships in search for data. It's very time consuming. So I mentioned earlier on about our strategic plan, capital improvements and working with city administrator Wolff's office and talking about this, we have our core values of service, teamwork, accountability, innovation. This is gonna be key. Respect, stewardship and fiscal responsibility. And this program of the enterprise asset management system really targets those areas. As well as we talked is the city administrator Wolff and we've talked about some of our past issues that we're trying to still address. Do you know it's older persons that we have our roads, you hear it every year, we need to invest them. We want better roads, we wanna get fix them. Tired of driving over potholes. Infrastructure as well, it's not just roads, we have sewers and other assets, including buildings to maintain. We just talked earlier about how this building is 56 years old, generator needs to, so it needs capital investment. Again, proactive, we need to extend the life of this building because in order to build a new building for service building, it's probably 20 plus million dollars to replace this building if we had to start all over. So we're not doing that, we need to keep investing. So our fleet, we know we've been some investment, we entered a lease program and we've invested in upgrading our fleet and finally our employees. Employees a great asset, but if we're not giving them the right data and they don't have access to it, they can't make good decisions. And so this program again, moving forward will allow for better decision making. So I real briefly wanna talk about the life cycle of infrastructure, talk about expansion, world war two, we're expanding, we're growing. But then it slows down and then we have to maintain what we have. We maintain and that's where, if we do the proper timing of maintenance, that's the best use of dollars. But eventually you can only maintain buildings or equipment or so forth for so long and eventually it has to be reconstructed or replaced. This next slide talks about enterprise and management alternatives and it's not just public works. Public works serves not only the infrastructure for the community, but we also do internal services for the other departments. And this kind of shows off, this program will affect all of these agencies within the city that talked about that timeliness of maintenance. Again, if we are able to identify and pick the right asset or infrastructure piece and do the maintenance at the right optimal time, it's less expensive versus waiting for it to degrade and then fail and then replace because that's always more expensive. So a little background of our business problem. I talked about expansion, maintenance, reconstruction, right? Well, that's not linear. Those are all occurring at the same time. Every year we have some pressure to expand. We have this subdivision on this outside. We wanna get some sewers down there, but we gotta maintain this road because it's starting to fail and then let's get this totally replaced. They all go after the same dollar. So those are competing pressures actually that we're dealing with. So EAM, Enterprise Asset Management. Well, it's a solution. It's gonna help us. It's gonna help us in terms of being able to identify things. And this isn't a new concept by any means. It's really a computerized database system that will tie into our geographical information system. You heard it with the gentleman with the storm sewer. GIS, right? GIS is really a graphical map that has intelligent information attached to it. EAM provides that interface to provide that structure, that intelligence to it. This will actually serve as a mechanism for DPW to change our legacy operations, mainly from the paper-based system to more of electronic and interactive-based system. So we went through a selection process on this. Then we determined like the functional requirements addressing areas of operations that included a robust inventory management. We have a tremendous amount of inventory as I showed in that one slide. And then it could, you know, ultimately, we have an old legacy mainframe system that some of our databases are in that isn't very intuitive and we're looking to retire that and move off of that. And that's part of the strategic plan that has been addressed as well. Vendor demonstrations were given by DTS ViewWorks and CityWorks. They were two vendors, and a third vendor was also reviewed but not invited to do an evaluation. So this slide really just talks about what went into their parameters. It talked about the functional requirements, system specifications, operational, and ultimately the maintenance of the system long-term.  So it doesn't necessarily have to have the map to work. Some of the systems you had to have the map, which is a great thing to have, but a lot of times, if you're in a building, if you just have to look up a park and you're working on a furnace or something, I don't need a map to know what room I'm going to go look for the furnace, in other words. They had a great training plan that was both self-paced, paced online, and it also, when we were having instructors come on site and help us with this. And you'll see in the next slide, it's significantly less money than the CityWorks system. DTS, for over a five-year cost period, is going to be about 482,000, where CityWorks was 800 plus. They actually, after they submitted it, they said, oops, we can do better. And they reduced it by about 50 or 60. Still not enough to be competitive. So I want to take five minutes here because this video will provide really a good background in terms of what we're going to be accomplishing with this. You might have to click on it, John. Okay. It does, it's on. No, you have to go back into the presentation. And then we'll probably get an ad. Let's see if I can get the turn this on. Turn the volume up real over here. Right here. Anything I'm going to add to this one then? Yeah. Where am I? Cool. I'm sorry. Okay. In turn, the small angle down. Turn right here, correct? Yep. Can you hear me now? What's going to do with that, obviously? Yes. That wakes on. Okay, well, let's just keep going. Okay. Oh, I think I found something. Good. Can you hear us good? So we're talking about schedule, project planning, tracking. So they're going to be partnering with us with the implementation. So the cost that's in your proposal, the software is about, is $85,000 initially out of the box. And then annually, there's a $17,000 fee for maintenance and support and then hosting environment of $20,000. So annually, moving forward, looking at about $37,000 on an ongoing basis. That's why when you looked at the four year, the five year cost, there was only about $400,000 because after this initial outlay, the annual cost is much lower than the comparison company. The 214,500, that's going to be the big implementation. That's going to be actually loading the software, adding the data to all the computer systems and Rupert Wilkie's time and effort. This is a two year project. This isn't something we're going to buy and put on our computer and go, oh, we're ready to go. It's, as you can imagine, all of that data needs to be built and converted into the databases. So what's that return on that investment, right? I mentioned these three things, they're all working. They're competing today. They're stretching that same dollar, right? What we want to do with the EAM is get to the process where with the EAM, they all work together. In other words, instead of competing. So it's going to impact personnel. It's going to help with our equipment needs and material. We're going to have all of this together. This data funding to better data and informed decisions, better decision making, because we'll have all that, the right data at our fingertips versus taking the time to research in all those times. And quite frankly, we're getting to the stage where with new employees, they're not familiar with some of the areas and how to look this stuff up and have that background either. So there's an element of succession planning as well here is what I guess I'm saying. So our operating budget for the entire department, including wastewater and all of our activities is $25 million a year. It's a lot of money. And we need to be good stewards and use that to our best ability so that when we're out there doing the repairs and doing the work we do every day that is being used properly and it's making a difference. Not to say that we're not making a difference today but we don't want to go in and repair something that really didn't move. It has other plans and other infrastructure. Maybe that needs other repair. And actually in addition to the 25, we have four million roughly that we spend on capital improvements. So $29 million every year for our city that we're spending. So the best possible use to make better decisions and do the maintenance of this proper time will help be good stewards of how we use this money. So the enterprise asset management system will allow the DPW to strategically be formed that preventative maintenance, extending the life of infrastructure. How does it do that? Well, again, it talks about resource management, managing our time and expenses, work management, tracking of citizen requests. Where are the complaints coming in? We get complaints and issues every day that come into the department saying this needs to be fixed. This needs, well, if we're starting to be able to track that better and get a history on it and figure out well, what's, why is this continuing here? We'll be able to enter a plan. And again, once we get this loaded, we'll be able to evaluate and assign condition assessment.  We do that today. And that's probably just one little piece of the whole system. Now we wanna take the pavement and determine, okay, out of those red pavements that we know we need to fix, which ones also have sewers that are bad versus that are good? So maybe you combine two projects. You're doing the sewer work and the road work and you get versus just, you know, fixing another road, in other words, without that. So planning, and then ultimately, how's it all factor into future capital budgets? Where are we forecasters? What kind of projects are we gonna need? Some of them, you know, they show the mobile application. That's gonna be fantastic for our work crews and when we're out and about, we respond. We respond to it, something that either, I'll use Mike's crew, they have a traffic signal down. They have to respond in their truck.  Instead, on a computer, it could be right there, oh, I'm at this location, pull it up, find out what parts I need, what materials. So again, citizens' requests come in, our service requests, we generate work orders, we look at our resources that are available with the system, and so forth. The picture on the left here is actually the Badger Lab project and that has all brand new infrastructure that we put in storm sewers, sanitary sewer, water main, and now it moves street side. And this was in the video, but I just wanted to share it again, talks about map and data sharing, the work management aspect and ultimately strategic asset management. Knowing what we have in this condition will help us better plan and be better used for money. And the picture on the right is really just the, a snapshot of the geographic information system with now the data associated with it. Instead of having a book on your desk and looking at a book, it will be all in front of you. So again, I want to really go over this timeline, it's 24 months, two years. So it will be fully available in 2024. Now, it's got tasks, it's gonna be incrementally built. So we're gonna maybe, we're gonna take, like I said, our pavements are in good condition. So let's build that and leverage what we have today and that could be a quick win.   And through this 24 months, we're gonna be coming back and probably I will do with the team will probably give you an update. We're gonna say, hey, this summer, since this is where we had our kickoff meeting, we're working on our work flows. How do we take intake? How do we just, how do we just, you know, we really are gonna describe everything we do into the computer system. So nine tasks, again, fully implemented in 2024. So our pillars of success again, this matches our strategic plan. It addresses our infrastructure, better customer service with our residents will be better able to respond as well as our employees will have the proper tools to do their work. So with that, I think that's it. And I can't be answering questions and. Mr. Chair. Go ahead. Did we budget for this? Yes. The whole amount? Yes. We have some money that we're gonna use some money this year. We had money's budgeting and the capital improvements program to fund this as well. So we have been budgeting over five years? That initial, the initial amount is the 380 or 330. 360, 390. Yes. That's in the budget. Now I have to caution. I have some, we have to change some of the account numbers but the number stays the same. The budget number. It's just some of the numbers of where the funding comes from has to be adjusted a little bit. But yes. And then also just curious, is this going to be customized to us? Or is this something, it's a life management product that they do have and they apply to whatever but they have to customize. There will be parts of it that are customized on our city. Yes. So it has, for instance, from city to city to city you have certain things that are uniform. For instance, a street's gonna be what types of payment? Is it concrete or is it asphalt? Does it have curb and gutter? So it has some of those descriptions but it does have fields that for each asset that's unique to Sheboygan, we're able to customize it. So it has some flexibility built into it but it doesn't have to be totally customized right away. So there's some things that are gonna be simple and easy for us to just start populating and putting in the fields for data. But there's other things, as you would say, that are customizable and it has that ability. And finally, very briefly, the old material that we have is not going to be transferred in any way, right? There's more new data that is going to be built up. We're gonna start with the new data that we currently have. And that data won't go away. It will stay, but there's some of the data that will need to be transferred from the legacy type of paper document into the system. That will probably be the most time consuming, but you're right. Most of it is more for reference and will be a backup but moving forward, we wanna know today. We wanna know what today, what we have. Thank you. Go ahead, Marcus. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I've got a series of questions here, but this one piggybacks off of Alderperson Perales' previous question. Can you just give me an example of what's in the books that is useful today? Sure, there's certain things such as pipe material, when it was constructed, the depth, the grade, it was built at, for instance, for sewers and some of that. And there'll be some data in terms of benchmarks, in terms of where property corners are located and some of the survey data, those are in books. The plumbing records have details in terms of where a lateral for a sewer or a water is coming to a home and the depth of it and some of that. So that's key, especially when we're doing design, we wanna put a new sewer in, we wanna avoid those utilities. So it's just a good reference check. That same paper stuff is really accurate. And it's a lot better than just digging a hole and seeing what you find and cheaper too. Exactly, you can trust it. Second question would be what are the three environments that we're paying for through ViewWorks? I'm guessing one is city streets and then there's two other things or what is that? That's the hosting environments and I think what that will be is the three environments with some of this in the web. Okay. Like a cloud-based, hosted environment, then we have on-premise for the enterprise version and I'm gonna be remiss. The other one I think is a mobile where it's for the mobile application. Okay, so it's just how we're gonna be able to operate the system. Correct. Then my next question would be, it's in the video that we would have the ability to look at images of the city streets. How often is it an entire mapping of the city gonna take place? So we know what it actually looks like. We, at this stage we're not proposing, that would be an add-on. Got it, okay. To do that and we feel that with our current inspection that we're doing today, that we have a good database because we have to do this with the state of Wisconsin, the DOT, that what we have currently is in good, a good solid database. I think what we've been able to do, utilize Google Maps and some of the free applications and you know, okay, and Chicago is not that big and we, if we really have an issue, we can drive off that. Yes, okay. So we didn't feel that that was a real value added. Now, if we were in Chicago, met, you know, something weird. But for us, we just didn't seem to justify to spend that extra money for that. Understood. Then my last question has to do with the inventory, purchasing, work orders type of thing. How are you doing that today and versus how we're going to do that tomorrow? You know, that's an excellent question. We're not. So you never know how many batteries you have. You never know how many. We have inventory and I could go back to the stock room and I could talk to our stock room person and he could get that data pretty quickly. But in terms of, we do limited work orders for instance on what I would say damage report. If we have an accident, we'll put that on a work order. But every day type of activity, we track internally a little bit with spreadsheets and it's not integrated necessarily in a complete system. So for us, when we create our annual report, it is very time consuming for all the superintendents to recreate and track everything. I mean, they kind of each individual superintendent has their own method instead of being integrated and coordinated. So again, this is going to be a real paradigm shift for how we operate and how we track things. It's really needed for a good business, quite frankly. Those are my questions. Thank you. Anywhere else have any questions? All right, let me make a motion to approve this. So the motion, excuse me. With amendments as follows. I'm going to make some adjustments on the operating budget account numbers. Do you want me to say I make a motion to approve as amended per the operational account number changes? Right. Is that good? OK. Second. A motion and a second. Any other discussion on this? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes aye. That is approved. Just so you know, talking with the administrator, well, I will be making the same presentation to the whole council on Monday so the other, all the person can understand, since it is such a large project in it, it's going to be over two years. And it's a nice presentation. Thank you. Right here. I mean, not tiring at all. Sure. It's like a stormwater. Holding out that video might be a good idea to sway some people because I thought we were getting road view done every year. And they say cutting edge technology, but it looks like 2002. It was a little clunky in terms of how we have done it. It doesn't embed itself into the presentation. So good suggestion. All right. My little experience, I would predict that it would take more than 24 months. I can tell you just right. I have gone through these type of projects with other type of life management projects. And the training would be a nightmare. So generally, it would be a nightmare. Thanks for the work, Arthur.  I promise all of us. You're going to have men. We're DPW. We'll get it done. Oh, you and I? No, no. She's got this. All right. Number four, 4.1, our own number 1062122, document 7.1, a communication from Dr. Toby Watson. We're requesting permission to place four donated pianos with winter covers on the city right of way at various locations in the downtown riverfront. We can continue to foster shaborgans, place basking strategy to activate city streets. So, or do we? I've got a question to start off with. Sure. Did we get any sort of resolution from the city attorney's office on what we're doing with this? We have a talk about it. OK. Yes. I have an email from attorney Thomas Cameron, stating that they've successfully negotiated the donation and agreement with Dr. Watson to guide the pianos. Cool. So, I'm just trying to paraphrase this. With that said, the committee, I think the one that's brought back, he's recommending that we put a report of officer back on the public works committee agenda for the meeting. We can give a quick update and ask basically the committee to hold this. OK. And based on how you feel, he would, what's he recommending? He's recommending a hold so we can put everything together. There you go. Hold. So good. He's got an agreement, but hold it. And he'll have the documents for you to revert the next hold. Move to hold. It was no document we're evaluating. That's right. There you go. So it's coming. But just the update is that he's going to be out. OK. So we'll be coming back. I'll make a motion to hold to our next meeting. OK. Motion is made in a second. Any discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes aye. That is done. That is on hold. OK. Next meeting date, December 28th, 2021, seen as we've exhausted the agenda, it's a promotion to adjourn. So moved. Said. Motion to adjourn. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Chair votes aye. That is approved to adjourn. I will not be adjourned.