All right now YouTube to see it. There we are morning. Good day. Good evening to YouTube All right, welcome. I believe this is the is this the third or the fourth hybrid fourth hybrid live coding interfaces online workshop Once again this year. It's Organized by my colleagues Hope your duo Melody loveless and myself Kate Sikiyo We are all in Eastern Standard Time, but I know everyone out there is in all the time zones the welcome welcome this year our scene is Boundless live coding I Don't know if Kofi or Melody you wanted to say anything about the food. Yeah Since I'm on my unmuted So this came about because We always been thinking that when people think of live coding sometimes they just think of algorithm sometimes they think live coding It's a genre But the more you go to things like ICLC or you see actual people practices We started realizing that life-coding is not a genre. It is boundless So being this the hybrid live coding interface We're like what if we made a call out and put together what live coding could be Will be has been or even never be and try to have those explorations ideologies and Philosophies all merged together for this Conference and that's what you have you have live coding that's many different formats Great. Well Do you have anything to add Melody? I Guess something that I would also add is that it was also the this year's needs also kind of a response to all of the Really interesting topics that have been emerging over the years so when we were like contemplating like You know comparing to last year's event that we also organized together. It was really focused on like dance or voice Things that are really really resonate with us, but this one again It's just kind of like the just kind of echoing what Kofi just said It's more about investigating like this boundless nature because of like all these interesting other performances that I got to happen at each ICLC right like some pieces involving like theater and whatnot So this is as much as us thinking about where it could be so but it's also like a response to all of your great work out there Great. So with that, let's get started. So what first we have code drift from the streets to sound scapes And while they're coming on just a little bit about the format everyone has five minutes To share whether that's a talk or performance and then at the end of The session will have time for questions with everyone So do submit questions via the YouTube chat. We'll be checking it All right, so like code drift take it away Thank you, Kate. And thank you for having us here y'all So we are Nanditi and computational mama from Ajay Abghur and Ajay Abghur is a creative technology studio in India We've been exploring this Very new workshop format and creative coding format called code drift Which is based on the values of collaboration and community and Our love for bringing culture and tech together in our studio in our other works as well And also bringing the tangible and intangible together. So essentially we're trying to bring aspects of the city City exploration code and music and art together for a beginner friendly workshop format and performance format So I'll just share my screen and we'll talk through what it's all about Okay, so here we are So it all started with a very ad hoc Performance that I was called for which was a theatrical production on the women folk musicians of Rajasthan And it was very impromptu and I was called in for the sound design for the theater production And which basically led to discovering that live coding in sound design can easily translate to live coding soundscapes So I'll just share a glimpse of what Theater production looked like and then we'll move on to code drift So this is what it see it was set up as and this led to exploring some Soundscapes artists some pioneers in the field like Luke Ferrari and current contemporary Electronic artists like Forte who use a lot of bio music and soundscapes in their production And then of course we also present works of these people into our workshops as well So this was the origin story and then let's move on to how code drift came out of this exploration So yeah code drift became like a combination of both our strengths and it's on a pie and P5.js through P5 live and I think Nandini and I have a Real rootedness in understanding and finding spaces for combining tech with with our culture So this kind of became a 4d Workshop which has done in two parts The first bit is we drift through the city Which is basically we've currently done it in two cities with a poor and therefore which are in Rajasthan as I mentioned in the west of India and these are both fairly well known for the heritage are very touristy, but also representative of what it means to be in a smaller town in India So the idea is to be able to explore the city as well as creative coding Don't go down. Yeah So the way we've planned it is that you go through the city, but also the the space within which you have the workshop is specifically The furniture specifically laid out in in a you know, kind of non non structured way We ensure that people come in from various cities across the country You know, even if it's happening in the west of India people are coming in all the way from the south You know people are taking trains buses flights So the idea is that a diverse bunch of people come together and they must himself in this chosen city And then they work with that idea both as a starting point for their coding a greater coding and like putting journeys Yeah, so the vibe is pretty informal as as you can see and The venue and the city play a big part in in the atmosphere that we want for the workshop It's always a venue which is any way a community space The people who are running it they are like-minded and they want to support creative formats and Collaboration and friendliness. So it could be like co-working spaces or hostels or, you know, work cafes That that do match the atmosphere that we're looking for code drip And also a small city is important as a setting for a code drip to happen because it is welcoming and it is easy to get around and the whole Being able to preserve Traditions as well as moving into modernity is done very well in a well-balanced form in the cities that we've been doing code Drifting and this very unhurriedness of a living and creating is what we were looking for Which is which we do find in the in the smaller cities So, yeah, these are some snapshots of what it's like Yeah, and and so so as we said that collaboration is one of the main values Collaboration and community are the main values behind the idea of code drift and creative coding that we want to put across We always encourage a paired performance at the end on the fourth day. It's an open jam where Audio and video is like combined together and two or more people are performing together This really helps to bring about the collaborative spirit in in your creative journeys Which is what we want to push forward And there's no competition. We're all helping each other out debugging together And even if there are glitches or anything that goes wrong, we all embrace it and try to work with it and encourage each other through that So in that way, we're also imbibing the philosophies of live coding That is totally judgment-free and totally improvised So That's that and these are some images of the jam day and performances and we're trying different formats for Even for the jam day sometimes it is an open open house where we had about like 40 50 people come in And it was audience-facing but still very informal But at times it is also not audience-facing. That's not the primary idea But it's just everybody around around table and the projections are happening in Different places either on the ceiling on the floor or anywhere just explore different formats Which the jam itself becomes like a community thing and you're all just you know Passing the HDMI from one to the other on a table So we're exploring all these different formats around that a Few we can share a few videos This one's from the first one which happened in Udaipur and I So just some glimpses of the different things we've been trying to explore Yeah, and that brings us to finally some insights that we have gathered through a few experiences with cold drift I definitely helped us to bring in culture and heritage into coding For beginners, especially to create a very exciting gateway and which is very accessible to them It's easily understandable and also bringing the tangible intangible together. It's it's it removes the fear of it And using the city to for creative exploration has turned out to be effective for everybody Abhika Yeah, I think we were also kind of looking at spaces of how life coding can be representative of our practices and and How and this idea of water life coding set could mean and sound like and I think these explorations really given us an opportunity to Push that idea forward like where can where can the images be from? What do they look like? What do they represent? What what are the soundscapes all about and what are these cities keeps about and this format of using the city as an anchor to then kind of explore that the idea has been really interesting and also What was really interesting is none of the workshops have had only beginners Sometimes you've had people who are from more experience coding might have sometimes much more than me and I'm with you No, so that's really been nice for them to be able to use their skill set to Look at a creative exploration of what's possible within that idea. So I think yeah, that's about it Yeah, so finally like what we plan in the future for it is of course you want to do it in different cities And we also want to explore cities beyond India And another great idea that we were thinking of was we could do a traveling code drift that goes through multiple cities And people can just join and leave whenever they want or complete the whole circuit with us So that would be quite interesting in terms of the diversity of culture that we can experience through creative coding in one city itself in one country itself it's quite possible and Of course since it's a community driven project We would obviously try to do things to grow the community for which we are wanting to create some collaterals and labs around The workshop period itself where the beginners are in the workshop there. We could have some labs For people who have already been a part of code drift or who are already in other communities of creative coding In which we are part of or we know of or their experience creative code as we want to come in So this creates this sort of an osmosis of ideas between Experience creative orders and people are just starting with code drift and of course everything around the idea of city code and art is That has been working very well for us in code drift So, yeah, that's that's about it. I think that's our time as well and Yeah, this is the Thank you all for having us and we are leaving a little qr code here If you all want to listen to some or see some code drift sets that happened earlier You all can scan this and it'll open a YouTube playlist if you want to have a look Thank you. Thank you Yeah, thank you so much. That was fantastic. Yeah, I love this idea of Not only it being like something you can do as like a methodology from city to city But also bringing together Advanced coders and beginner coders because I think that there's sometimes like a gap there in live coding Like we have people who are very much starting and people have been doing it for a long time. So this bridge is really nice So, yeah, we'll talk about this work more at the end. Thank you so much. Thank you. And we're gonna have Eric set up and This presentation is live coding humans. I love live coding humans the making of a cyborg choir Okay, great. Can you hear me? I just wanted to check is my audio working? Oh good. Yeah Sorry Well, hi, I'm really excited to be here Thanks to Kate Melody and I'm gonna be for having me. I wanted to share with you today project that I've been working on And that's been performed in public and still in development for future performances It's called human machine interface and in it I live code humans. That is a human choir So my name is Eric Lee And my artist name is Easterner. I'm based in New York. I'm active member of the live code and by C community I perform and and curate and Co-organize live coding and audio visual shows It's part of my practice. I'm typically technology agnostic and experimental at heart I like both old and new technologies from vintage synths CRT TVs and 8 bit video game consoles to code based music XR and AI based tools and I really like to glitch and circuit bend things and overall push technologies To do things they're not intended to do for public fact and or to critique or subvert their role in politics as society So typically I invite live coding. I like to use p5.js shaders touch designer for visuals and orca for MIDI sequencing Playing instruments that might be software instruments or built in pure data As well as playing outboard hardware synths and drum machines So at some point I wanted to myself what if I could live code humans instead How would I do that? What kind of emotional impact could such performances have what are the artistic and poetic possibilities? So I was really imagining singers wearing VR headsets wired up to a central computer and in their headsets They would see a live-scorning score and they would sight sing this live So I'm unabashedly influenced by classic Side punk like the anime film Ghost in the Shell as well as other media works think as an artist in here And so that informed a lot of the aesthetics and musical choices of the performance And it also occurred to me that humans reacting live to a scrolling real-time scores also related to rhythm games So the most famous example is probably Gonna be the floor pad dance based rhythm game dance starts revolution So the first challenge was how to render MIDI in real time one path that came to mind was to render scores in European classical musical notation and five classical singers that have been trained to sight sing well When I explored this I found That there were no existing tools In the public domain that I could find at least for real-time generation of a scrolling score So it had to build my own And it could be interesting. I thought what other life code is eventually if I could make one to use such a tool as well I did find some interesting individual projects where people are doing something like this, but those tools weren't widely available One was John E cop from the UK shown here in the left two images Who convert the title water data from the River Thames into musical scores in real time To be performed by live orchestra As well as US-based composer Jacob Jopinski Who had a project called blind ear? I think in the 2000s Which was very much like an extension of Earlier generative music without computers like Terry Riley and see where he provided 53 musical phrases They can kind of see in the left that musicians could choose the play from and repeat and they would interlock and phase So to make a scrolling score, I initially looked at Vexplo an open-source JavaScript library for rendering musical notation European musical notation, but I ended up going with faster prototyping of more stylized scores in touch designer So I first built a touch designer sketch to render one scrolling score from one channel of incoming MIDI notes and then Replicated this to render four separate channels of incoming MIDI Which would then go to the foot headsets of the four singers? And so in this upcoming video, you'll see one laptop on the left with orca Generating the live-goat music and then the second laptop that receives the MIDI information into touch designer and renders This into four scrolling spores that then go to the four singers in one of the rehearsal sections And so some final comments Before I sort of show a little montage of the final performance This was never intended to be just a technical demonstration But I really wanted to do something that was more like performance art or even theater So behind all of this was this sense of the broader anxiety that I think we're all feeling today About algorithms and how they're affecting our lives So in this performance, we're live coding algorithms that tell the four singers what to do This holds promise I think is a theatrical canvas for exploring the relationships between algorithms The people that design and run them And the people that are controlled and affected by them So when you hear about Amazon workers whose workload is optimized So much that they did not have time for bathroom breaks, for instance That's you know hitting the limit of the literal physical baseline needs of a human body In this project, this is mirrored by writing algorithms that generate music That's at times so fast and intricate that it provides no space for breathing And of course breathing is a basic physical baseline need for human singers An additional thing in this performance near the end The singers are tired and they're barely able to keep up with the scrolling score And they finally decide that they've had enough they stop singing they take off their headsets In an actual resistance and so then there's a question. How can we structure relationships between humans? machines and algorithms in a new healthy way that does not exploit and oppress but lifts and emancipates us So I don't know what the answer to this. Yes. It is yet But I believe it's valuable to open up the space in which to start imagining this And so that's a big part of the motivation behind this project So to close out and here's a short montage of the performance of this on May 27th of this year. Thank you Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah That was wonderful. I Think we have time for maybe one or two questions Melody if you can give me a time check that would be great One thought I had Watching this because because I work mostly with live coding humans Was this idea of that you touched on at the end of sort of agency and I wonder if If this balance maybe can be found in rather than like the Performers feeling like they have to like interpret this like do the score. There's room for interpretation And I wonder like how that that works into this piece in particular this active and of interpretation as the singer Yeah, totally There's so many different ways to answer this question. So I think the one I want to choose this time is like, you know I think Was was the idea that we'll I was kind of working at two levels. So one level was like I wanted, you know, I think So on one level I wanted to make sure that this was a very clever process with the singers poor singers and one visualist involved and so that was entirely like You know far more than consensual is like enthusiastic collaboration, right? So they knew there would be ahead of time what they would be doing that they would be pushing their bodies to the limits Right. So in that sense, they knew that this is what they were going to do And then there was the sense of what are we trying to perform and convey? To an audience that that that can be understood. So in that sense, it was a very collaborative process because together with the singers we came up with the different types of Creative singing styles Unusual like singing techniques like you heard some of the kind of droopy notes. There was a lot of like very nasal sounds very like Very strained sounds that were after like Consultation of them things that wouldn't like hurt them would be like doable and would be you know usable As part of you know Making that the sound and the performance and then at the same time for the performance, you know The I think the audience was kind of given this and I think had this impression or maybe assumed that they would that the setup was basically The algorithms tell the singers what to do and the singers then reproduce this faithfully that's their job and that's it It's just a performance But then there's this I wanted it to be like, oh wait, it's not a black box The performance itself is part of the performance and that they don't have to do what they say And so there's some break there that they May or that the audience may or may not expect and I'm still trying to figure out, you know What type of performance works well? What am I trying to say? What are we trying to say? Is it helpful to tell the audience what to expect beforehand or to kind of have this be a shock to them? you know and And I think This setup and like going in general really allows you to do both I think this whole the idea that you can choose is I think part of the exciting thing that this is like a as an awful Yeah, exactly. Yeah, fantastic. Thank you so much Eric. Yeah, that was brilliant presentation and yeah We'll have some more discussion at the end Thanks so much. Yeah, thank you and now we'll move on to our next presenter So our next up we have Code and audio dramas a method for bimodal descriptions Yeah, and I'll let you take it away. Yeah Thanks Yeah, so Hello, my name is Georges Diapoulis. I Recently finished my PhD Here at Salmers In Gothenburg and I will be presenting you code and audio dramas a method for bimodal descriptions Now Live coding has been described as the dramatization of a computer algorithm by Nick Collins and Audio dramas as I Use the term here refer to The idea that we have a play without words That's a reference I put under your socks The events it's a Radio so It's a valuable online and they are under socks Creates the play using only sound. So so there is no Speeds or any other meaningful words in the play. That's the basic idea and The thing is that I would like to use this technique or to propose this technique to produce rich descriptions between code and sound so Code is powerful in describing What is is rendered And this is a literal Representation and But many times, I mean we we are kind of Surprised but by how it sounds like etc. So The idea is that to have both the code and the audio with rich descriptions on the audio so that we can train large language models and I Will go to a live coding demo now where it's like a soundscape moving between nature like and synthetic sounds and I use a voice synthesized voice to To narrate like the imageries of the listener. So In reality, I will elaborate at the end But let's start with the demo. Oh, what a beautiful bird song It's somewhat more spacey What is this noise? strange bottle opening Becoming unnatural like flying paper metallic objects Starts Kind of synthetic Sound strange and somewhat nicely synthetic Yeah, that was lovely. Yeah Yeah, so the idea with the voice here is just to To describe like the inner thoughts of a listener and Because of the presentation limitations with five minutes I Thought to put a voice on top but the idea is that we do like a Like a standard like the typical live coding session where we write code and then we Produce sound and then on the sound we can go and Have the scripts and so I would love to hear any thoughts or questions from that Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think my my initial thought was like, yeah, it is like very theatrical Like I think both the interplay of like The birds becoming space spacey and spatialized and then also like also, you know More and more. Yeah, sort of synthesized and then and then the voice slaying the top of it and like yeah That also doing the same thing, but the interplay of it did feel very like yeah There was this like dramatic tension, right between these natural things versus the machine things Which I thought really did feel like, yeah Feel like um a drama. Yeah, it was really well crafted in that way Yeah Yeah, uh, no, I'm not sure how much time we have maybe two minutes, but Yeah, uh I have I have in my mind like that for instance, you can practice like long term and do that And then when you go and listen after the practice your live coding sessions and only the sound Then you can write like a Not a diary particular but like A description of what you hear if if that's Interpretable as a play I mean that I guess it It can be done also On a musical live coding Here musicologists you can also kind of describe the moves there So that's my interest there to to combine the Great, uh descriptions on the sound with the code and then train some large language models Great fantastic. Yeah Any other questions? I'm not sure if there is anything on the stream, but I don't see anything on the stream Yeah But at the end we'll we'll do a larger question. Okay, then Maybe I'll leave you to continue. All right. Thank you so much. That was wonderful. Yeah, really well done. Yeah Thanks Up next we have we have a performance by Carla guzman um So immigration and fluorescent, uh magenta I'm matrices and this is accompanied by ocean and Morella guzman's sound I've said that right. Apologies All right, and I'll let you take it away. Thank you so much. I'm gonna go ahead and just share my screen and sound Just start with me um Yeah, so there's just there's just me with the title and what I'm doing is I'm going to be using a hydra visualizer uh taking some visuals from my own art practice and Some community musicians. I hope you enjoy the performance. I'll get right into it This evening Catch myself because I know I'm not falling apart Something else pulls me back to the days when I knew myself Then it's good and I'm running and But I think how long it's better catch myself. All right, uh, that Includes the performance part of the presentation So over the last year or so, um, I've been Doing this kind of interesting thing where I'm collaborating with Musicians in their area and I use my own art practice to um Include visuals so basically vj for these artists and it becomes this um lead collaboration um The code is um a bit minimal. Um, mainly including Images for my own final practice and using the uh The knowledge that I learned over time to uh really expand upon this idea and here is my um Contact if you want to get in touch with me and just a bit of my background as well Um, so the title immigration and fluorescent magenta. Uh, these are actual matrices uh for my own art practice and But the first track you heard was from ocn and the second track was from maria clueless music You can find them on youtube if you're interested Yeah, that was beautiful. Thank you so much Yeah, I hope y'all enjoyed that Yeah, I think we might have like a two minute question. Um, so my question is like what um in these um when you're working with um a musician or when you're working with these tracks what in it Inspires you to make it to like pull from your visual art like what what kind of um, yeah Internal mappings. Yeah. Yeah Great question. And um, I'm glad you You mentioned this um because I was uh pretty intentional about choosing these two tracks the first artist I actually uh worked with her over the course of uh several months and we created um visuals for her Uh music from start to finish Um, we she essentially created an album and I was alongside with her creating the the visuals for her And then we concluded it with a gallery exhibition as well as the live performance is really beautiful. Um, and then uh, maria clueless The second track. Um, I'm hoping to do the same Uh next year Um, so I very much um my own art practice is very much abstract expression is um I pull from emotions. So I try to just you know, vibe with whatever the the mood of the the music is at the timing the visuals using um Yeah hydro, which is very like user friendly. Uh, in my opinion, so um, yeah just kind of uh Jamming in in real time That's fantastic. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for performing and sharing. Yeah, it was really beautiful. Yeah Yeah, thank you until you have a visual arts practice because it becomes so painterly. Yeah Yeah, yeah painter printmaker It's in there. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah All right, and this um brings us to Our last individual presenter of the morning Um, so leon, I believe you're here um So this um presentation is called inferno inferno a live coding odyssey through noise and narration So if you're here and want to share Yes, we can. Yeah I can't share my video Because the host is not allowing it but I can try to share my screen. Let's try that Let's start um Um Yeah, can you see that? Yes, we can. Yeah Okay So, yeah, um, yeah How do you do it? And I'm working as a Programmer and my three time I myself to live coding since over here And what I find out about this workshop, uh, that's all the topics um That was really interesting. Um in the topic lie But I was wondering how the connection between lie and coding um Could be made or which topics are like kind of like intertwining um, these two So I was asking myself What the content um of lie and the first thing that came into my mind was um the whole area of using information because The other participants Can't read the spell of laden germany. I have a lot of movements and lost trust in the old types of information on news So that was like obviously the thoughts around sort of like fake news Since And misinformation so that Yeah And Me Are connected And um, this is basically how I arrived to solve like news information topic but on top of This connection, I was also thinking about that like we are To digital media to digital age That go face the enormous challenge of processing all these new information to um digital analog social media and if we actually are capable to To check what kind of information in the news to be consuming and at least formations and Are I correct or fake news? So I wanted to put myself Into the situation how it would feel to be but Really, I'd I just have to One second because the audio is very glitchy. We're not hearing what you're saying Oh It's still pretty pretty echoey No I think that well, um continue talking so we can hear if it Um, okay, uh, I'll try It's not good Yeah, it's definitely better Okay, maybe it's the problem with sharing the screen, but let's give it another Sure Yeah, to give it a shot. So what I wanted to do was connect the topic of news Um and overwhelm being overwhelmed by the amount of data and news we are Um exposed to every region wanted to pop myself into this situation to uh Give us through that experience. Um So I decided to Make a life Body session in p5 and tiger and Can show you a little bit from it So yes, go a little bit in the Product part of it. Well, what we have is like a constant displacement, um by our Which is a modulate noise function and the noise value Has to get regulated by a midi knob. So I have to control with one hand basically the knob the noise s At the value of zero something is displaced And what I do at the old time is I try to get So it's from the side of the textures that get randomly picked every age 20 brands and try to get parts of it to get some information out of the input of the information that I get The right because you can probably most very generated that that's doing the spacemen and also the um the limits in the analyze and skates the Textures Yeah, that's basically thank you for listening and sorry for much Yeah, thank you so much. That was very cool very cool work. Um Great. Um, yeah great demo Um at this point, I'm going to invite all of our sessions presenters back And we'll open it up for a more um general discussion So maybe actually one Sort of big broader question I had after watching everyone's was um The relationship between in a performance between a live coder and a non-live coder or um Or maybe even not like maybe it isn't even like when I say non-live coder as a performer Maybe it's not even like a human performer. Maybe it's a location Or something else Because I think all of these sort of spoke to um that idea in a different way, right? Like this idea like someone is the live coder and then there's this other Thing that they're sort of dealing with Um within the work. So, um, yeah, I guess that's my question. What's the relationship between the live coder and the non-live coder Um within within what you've been discussing this morning. I don't know if anyone wants to go first I Could uh, I Uh, yeah, I'll be I'll be quick. Um, yeah in my mother. I guess I was explicitly, you know about live coding Humans, um, and as I mentioned like the kind of configuration of the setup itself was the kind of a canvas So the initial starting point was me as live coder Writing an algorithm that controls for other humans But then part of opening a space for well, what could other configurations look like? you know one that kind of came to mind for future performances was Uh, after the kind of resistance where they say no, we don't want to do this anymore Is to change around where we would swap places for instance That that's sort of a very sort of straightforward one where someone else would come up stop live coding and I would put on the headset and start singing Um, but then yet other things to think about we're like, well, there's so many possibilities with this setup like Well, maybe It's not as simple as that. Maybe they everyone is a live coder and also singing or maybe You know when someone starts flagging Can they redistribute their work load to someone else? I mean, there are lots of just things that open up these kind of political Questions. So that was one talk from What related to my project? I just wanted to say Just as a former non coder I really appreciate these like friendlier softwares For us that are really like interested in tech, but you know Haven't quite hit that like learning curve And I think um, it gives a lot of like good insight for like the people that I've collaborated with I have like enough understanding to kind of just be like, hey, this is like what this does Let's do something together. Um, it definitely You know, although I'm coding, um At the end of the day, it does require like human interaction. I have to make sure like, you know We can communicate what is our goal at the end of the collaboration and that we're we're vibing like I like the music they like my visuals. Um, so In the end it becomes this like Very beautiful thing so, um You know in terms of the city because for us We're we are looking at the life coder as the human and the machine and the city as the non life coder part uh, it really It feeds in as the creative material that you work with So we're really using aspects of the city whether it's The sounds that we are hearing and recording or whether it's the sites we're seeing as photographs or videos or Just your experience of the city like the coders experience of the city translating into You know, bringing what's going on in their mind to The performance everyone can look at through their practice of life coding So it's not actually what they have seen and recorded. It's it's like a changed version of their experience through Life coding so guess in my project um, I'm the life coder who is who is suffering this or Exhibits himself towards this um overwhelming situation and the non life coder Can analyze and see? um Maybe learn from his How how life coding can Not help with handling these situations. All right, we do have a question from our audience out in the internet So this is from Katrina Hogar that says um, it was specifically um Not doing but I think anyone can um address this as well How are you influencing participants to live code versus other intersections between creative coding? Or other coding and the event's goals So I guess why live coding and not dead coding Non-live coding Nanditi you should you should answer I don't know. I think uh We've also done, uh, non-life coding workshops Uh, I mean in in creative coding Formats, but I think there is something very exciting about like putting yourself in a space of not just A person who can use a code as a medium But also like doing it live like that performative aspect of it Really encourages people in a very different way. For example, like rather than just Saying hey, I made the sketch and sharing it But like, you know coming together as a group and doing it together and seeing That entire process and like allowing that the faults and and the gaps and the glitches That really helps people and I think we really play with this idea What it means to like build an image of two people Doing things together and feeling and fooling and goofing and you know feeling excited about it and may not necessarily be from a Technical background. What does that mean? And I think there's no better way to do it than equity and I feel like the community all of you have really Helped us to like build it in that way You know, like it's fine. You come to the gig and and it's okay to like falter so that really makes a difference in in in terms of Encouraging especially the non coders to kind of get into the groove of making with code Does anyone else want to address that why live coding and not Another creative coding practice. Yeah, I guess can I Uh, I'll try to combine both your question and this maybe So for me, uh, I guess a human is kind of necessary But uh I mean, I'm thinking of uh Like live coding as a state of mind So I guess you have to to change to Change or to have like a non-humanitarian World view to to see live coding for non-humans, which is It's an interesting approach. I mean, if you know, the if the earth can live code I don't know but But then again, I think my my position there is that maybe we attribute that to the earth or just Uh, it's maybe hard to know. Uh, and uh Yeah, so I I guess in the core of my kind of thinking now is this Live coding as a state of mind To answers both kind of why We develop interfaces on the fly and we modify them, etc. Rather than rather than using, uh Let's say that coding or, you know, kind of rigid interface, etc. That's I think the My view there Fantastic, thank you. Yeah, we have a couple other questions from youtube, um So another one from cat arena For those who made their own interfaces or special programs What was the most challenging aspect of the process?  I could um Yeah, I um You know one part of the challenge technical challenge for the project was making of the human machine interface project was to Uh render a live render MIDI like a stream of MIDI information and notes into a real-time score That could be site read. Um, so there were like Two big things one was actually just was actually yeah, it was it's it was supposed to be human centered and so there was kind of a feedback of Trying a way of Making a scrolling score, but then you're like, well how fast should it scroll how And by necessity, it's it's got to be lagged a little bit because You kind of got to generate maybe one measure or two measures of MIDI notes before you Before it's supposed to be site sum and so then where does that go should it scroll should that actually appear on screen and kind of like Uh, kind of slowly like move up the page or move down the page Although those were you know, it was to actually try and have an error with specific singers But then at the same time, of course, they got whatever it was There was a path dependency because they started getting better at whatever it happened to be And then, you know, they started getting familiar with it So I don't know with the new set of singers with other performers I actually also tried it with the string or tep, you know, they were kind of different Ways that different people unsurprisingly Uh respond differently to to different kinds of um Uh different kinds of Notation so is that I think that that was where it's like, yeah, you know, uh Humans are messy and that's part of the great thing about all of this and trying to put humans in standardized units Uh, sometimes is what leads to to inhumane things um The second more trivial one was that uh, it's surprisingly difficult to send lots of hdmi out out of one Uh, you know gpu uh, if I get a kind of Uh initial ceiling at like four It was actually quite a bit harder to start sending out more and then it's like, okay You actually need to think about different way of delivering a lot of scores to a lot of things Which is why something more scalable would probably be So I'd have to do a bit of a redesign Thank you. Anyone else want to talk about their systems and any Any um difficulties and how they overcame them I mean leon, your system is kind of about difficulty System to be That's difficult as possible, no, but then on the other hand It also can't be too difficult because otherwise the visual Wouldn't be visible anymore or just would be distorted Distorted and you wouldn't understand the concept anymore. So you have to obviously find the balance between um Yeah as I all what was interesting for me was I wanted to get as many inputs that are possibly noise random audio visual But also it has to be limited um But not too limited obviously. So there is yeah And what I also wanted to say to the practice of live coding what I really like is that First of all, I like the performance part of it. So while you do the live coding You have to sort your own idea how you're going to continue with the next step. So you have like Or for me, I often have a lot of ideas and I want to go there. I want to go there I want to go there, but at the end I just can go one way So every time it's kind of different And more like educational wise you when I see other people perform And I understand the language is super interesting how they write their code And how they express themselves with certain code, which maybe they couldn't with just I don't know poems or writing or anything. So I think it has a lot of specific Uh features that for certain people give just a really good option to express themselves Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, we have one last question Um, and then we'll wrap it up and then it says For people who have never performed in any way before what do you think live coding allows that maybe Other performing arts do not Yeah, I guess we could take that because that's what we're dealing with So in our experience code, basically, you know the idea of live coding gives this comfort to first-time Performers that it is improvised making and glitches and mistakes are a part of it So we always keep telling them mistakes are not mistakes. They are just surprises In your performance. So just move with it. Whatever has happened. How can you use that and then, you know, take the next step in the set So it's really comforting that way and creates this whole open judgment free space because everyone is live coding and everyone is dealing with glitches and Nobody really comes fully prepared for it. Like you're half prepared. So it takes off the pressure, you know, from compared to other performing arts that pristine, you know, output is not is not what we are looking for It's more about playfulness Yeah, I just wanted to piggyback off of that. I think In the arts, that's like even my own art practice like Your mistakes you can kind of Drive off of them. So in a similar fashion when you're making these mistakes in your code Like I remember in my first performance I froze up for like the first like four minutes But you know, you just get into it and like once once you're in it you find a flow so it's just very like Especially if you have like an audience like kind of react to the audience as well react to the the musician in this in my case so it just Becomes this like a very like collaborative experience in the end mistakes and all Right anyone else before we close off go for it. I'd one. Um, yeah, I think uh in At least for live coding music One thing that the singers that I collaborated in the project kind of Reflected back to me when I kind of explained what I was trying to do with the live coding was like, oh, you're kind of like Conducting and composing And improvising at the same time and I thought that was an interesting way to put it because You are trying to look at this at the very high level Um, and be like, okay, actually increase the energy here more broadly, right? But then at the same time you might also be like, yes, but also make arpeggios that are like a C major 7 chord, you know or, uh, you know add more sort of drum drum beats here. So there's sort of this, uh There's a lot of things you're doing at many different levels, but it's quite it can go to quite a high level Um, and then the other one is, you know, I started out Uh, when I want to start out making music, I was I learned to play the piano the keyboard And you know sitting at the white and the black keys at the keyboard tuned to, you know, western european scale It's, uh, you know, creates a certain bias. Um, and of course it's a restriction that can create many beautiful things It was really nice to Stop looking at that for a while and just looking at a different kind of keyboard I guess a computer keyboard and to make music without that and I started making music that was different from that And of course, you can then obviously go into other tunings Um from around the world or other kind of just numerical Micro to micro tonal stuff as well, but it was really nice to move away from that those biases, uh, Eurocentric by the wise and Then when I went back to the piano again, I also brought some of that with me and I was like, okay I'm playing things that I wasn't playing before. So it's uh, I enjoy it for the reasons Fantastic. Um, does anyone else have any final comments? Great. In that case, we're gonna conclude this morning's session or this first session. I should say we're not all in the morning Thank you so much to our presenters. It was um, yeah beautiful projects beautiful work. Um Really excited to see where all of this goes Um, hopefully our next session which starts at 10 30 will be on the correct youtube link. This one was not I had to quickly switch a bunch of stuff. Um, so hopefully Um, we'll see you on the next link in about 10 minutes ish Thank you everyone again. Really lovely


Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, here with Dave Vellante, my co-host, extracting the signal from the noise. We've got CUBE alumni, CUBE collective, distinguished analysts with theCUBE. It's Arbjit Jowal, who is with StackPane, founder and principal analyst at StackPane. StackPane. StackPane. StackPane. Not in plain, pain. Pain, pain of glass, or pain. StackPane. I feel the pain, or pain of glass. It's Arbjit, good to see you. Good to see you, John. Good to see you. Good to see you here in Barcelona. Thanks for coming out and on theCUBE. You have been out and about, been following on your Twitter feed. Big time, great stuff. You've got a lot of notes there. What are you seeing? What's your take of MWC? Bring it home. Yeah, I've been running around actually since Monday morning. Great dinner with you guys on Sunday. Thank you. So yeah, I think the biggest pattern is that telcos are getting digitized for a while now, but it's getting even more digitized, right? So this is what my interpretation is. Anything which turns into zero than once, compute companies, whoever is doing compute today, better. They will benefit from that. So cloud will benefit from that because I see cloud as industrialization of backend computing. So the demos at AWS were great. You know, like they are cooking up some next level stuff. Baking Jena AI into the BSS, you know, business sports systems side of things, right? So when people call in, you know, reducing the call volume and whatnot. So reducing the cost of, cogs, right, for telcos, if you will. Even on the O-RAN side or the RAN side in this case, they are doing a lot of innovation. So they gave us the tour of their telco solutions, right? IBM also gave us their, you know, what they are doing with the telcos. So I have seen, you know, I've visited many telcos. Yeah, we will jump into that. Well, let's get into it. You got the analyst notebook segment here. You've been walking around, you got the notes. What are you seeing? What's the key highlight from the IBM and these guys? What are they, what's their big pitch? The big pitch is that they are helping telcos digitize their stack, go to the next level. Monetization is key for telcos. Telcos, we talk about it all the time. They're suffering from that, right? So they are helping them build the BSS systems. And ancillary businesses. An example I will give you is with Vodafone, they did a spin out, which does help the SMB market. You know, telcos are very good with big with SMB, you know, because they serve all these, you know. It's easier to monetize. It's easier to monetize. So the one pattern is this, the telcos we know that we have talked about last year as well, the telcos are highly regulated. To innovate, their hands are tied in many ways. They can't keep the data of the user the way the other, the Googles of the world and Facebooks of the world can, right, so in order to innovate, I think spin outs is the best strategy and many telcos are doing that. I've seen that. Who's doing a spin out? I saw the Vodafone, I just gave you an example. So, and few others actually, I can't bring it up. What about 5G, what about 5G? Yeah, we heard just heard from the guys at Netscout that you know, it's definitely hitting the brakes on 5G, worldwide, you know, such huge capex and there's a $200 billion capex shortfall we saw on the paper, the key notes on Monday from the European telcos. And so, there's layoffs, hitting the brakes a little bit because there's no killer app, they really haven't found that golden vector yet. So, what have you been hearing in that front? I heard some stories around private networks, spot hospitals, right, and stuff like that. So, that, the key idea behind that is that it has better economics. You can save a lot more money because if you're doing 5G through telcos, then you're paying them a lot of money because you're going through their networks. But if you have a private network where you need to keep like 80% of your communication sort of locally, that makes sense to me. So, that's the number one thing, right? So, you're saying private 5G is the killer app of 5G? Is that right? Yes, yeah, you can say that, yeah. So, my big takeaway of here is that there's no dev talk going on. Like so, we heard also from Netscout and others that there's a lot of infrastructure going on, a lot of private 5G, the mobility story between Kindle and HPF, that was a great announcement. So, you got this idea of seamless mobility between private environments, private AI, public networks for, so you don't lose date if you've got a package on a truck, you can connect up, so I just love that. Love that, friend. The other thing I'm seeing is that when we had the Broadcom's CEO on, the, the- President. President. President. President. President. I can't seem to see you. That the architectures for service providers are changing into clusters, not so much data centers, they're turning into like super clusters. He actually used that term, Charlie, at Broadcom. So, that's one, and then the other one is, is that who writes the apps? So, you got open, you got the open model, the Linux Foundation, they're trying to create an open system where the Telco API, we had the chief technologist from AWS on said, the Telco should be an API, like the data was an API. He was very optimistic about what's happening. I then said, is it- Build the API and there will come, was his philosophy. Well, I then said, well, I said, well, where's the develop, where's the APIs? Well, it's in reference implementation. It'll all happen. Well, Dave, well, where is it? When we hear reference implementation, what does that mean? We hear what? When we hear reference implementations. Well, it's like a reference architecture. Yeah. What does that mean? It means it's not ready yet. It's not ready yet. It's getting ready. Like it will take a while for this old industry to adopt, right? Like we have to give them some time. Last year, remember we loved to have two APIs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. GSMA said like, oh, we have lost this open API, you know, like for Telcos and they had two APIs.  Yeah. So that's the start, right? That's a good start, yeah. And yeah, another pattern is that- Next comes the apps. Yeah. Well, how many apps are we talking here? That's what things subject. Last year was two. This year it's 99. Maybe next year it'll be, we'll hear about the apps. Yes. Well, the open gateway initiative, I want to hear more. I want to see the open gateway initiative be successful. Okay, they had 47 mobile operators. Okay, that represent 237 mobile nodes, including a lot of the MVNOs. So if they get those networks connected, then you open up observability data for NetScout. You open up app developers in the cloud already. Because the problem that the Telcos have, Dave, and the enterprises is that we know this, the developers got to come from the consumer side, not the business side, because 5G slicing is not available yet. So that's- Charlie Kowals made that point too. So it'll happen in the consumer market first. He was talking about AI, but he's right. So Amazon and Azure, mainly Amazon, Azure can reap some more, for sure. Because the developers in the cloud will make it happen, because that's where the agility is, that's the speed, time in the market. If the Telcos could make their stuff compatible with all the table stakes needed for cross-cloud, super-cloud observability, then you're going to have a winning hand. Otherwise, if not, the developer apps will be proprietary for this network, for that environment. No, I think it's all great to dream about big things. But remember this one thing, the Telcos is a utility. Telco is a utility, just like electricity is. That's how it's marked in government regulators. That's how they see it. The reason is, because everybody has a right to Telco, if you will. So they have to serve the population of their countries, the whole world, getting nine billion people now, right? So- Okay, so I'm dreaming then. Nine billion people, five billion connected. But my dream is vision, obviously, but let's take the Telcos. That utility provides that today. What needs to happen next? What needs to happen next is, they need to provide that utility on top of that because they're serving two sides. They're serving the population, everybody, right? Masses, and also the small and medium businesses. And also big businesses in a minor way, I think, personally. I think big businesses sort of use the bigger networks, or networks which are owned by Google, and- Yeah, so they're serving the, you said they're serving businesses in a kind of minor way, meaning the cloud guys are serving businesses directly. Exactly. The Telcos are maybe serving some small businesses and obviously homes. And of course they're serving the OTT vendors and the cloud vendors who are riding on top of their network. I think the key is the collaboration. Anybody who's collaborating with the likes of Amazon, likes of VMware, likes of Microsoft, I think those Telcos are doing good and they will do better, I think, going forward. Because they can, I used to work at Visa. Visa is also kind of sterility, but the Telcos are even lower level sterility, if you will. So they had to work with all the banks and all over the world and we had to go with the lowest common denominator in technology stack, right? So the good thing is that Telcos are localized by the country and their economics, Telcos' economics sort of mimics the economics of the country, if you will, right? So of the population. Another pattern is- So you think you see that as a positive? Yeah, right? But it sounds like the European Telco CEOs are pushing for more consolidation. You would think they would want to buy up some of those local, you know, because in part I see what you're saying, but isn't it also, doesn't it make that Telco more insular, more of a local monopoly, less innovation, less ability to scale? So I mean, I think that's two-sided there. Yeah, Telcos are also going to this national security kind of aspect, you know, like the calls need to stay within the country, but now with the roaming and all that stuff, the calls are, that was one of the demo AWS showed, if I'm making a call to you here, it has to go to US Network and come back to you here. The data travels there, because everything is data and our calls are data. So, but they are trying to route the call from the local sort of right from here, so you, we can talk, it doesn't hit US, and you don't pay it more for that network. So, for example- You know, you remind me of something, we didn't talk about this with Zeus yesterday, but in the Chuck Robbins round table, he said, oh, I'm not trying to get political, but if Trump gets elected, and he implements some of the things that he wants to implement in terms of, you know, local restrictions, that's going to be a nightmare for the entire industry to be able to figure out from a compliance standpoint. I don't understand what he means by that. Yeah, well, he was saying that, well, I guess Trump's been saying, I don't really completely understand it either, but I guess he's been saying that if he comes in, he's going to place more restrictions, export restrictions and the like, and sovereignty, data sovereignty, you know, restrictions would likely be the reciprocal, you know, response, and that would just make it really hard for companies to figure out what they can and can't do, and they have to comply to that, that's an expense, and it's one that he clearly didn't want to absorb. Irrespective of the politics of it was his point, but he brought it up several times. So that- I've just waited four years until he's out. Yeah, well, my question was, and I didn't get an answer to it, was can that happen with an executive order? But I don't know. Sorry, I digress. No, another pattern is- That's a rant, Dave, for the podcast. Yeah, well, right, there you go. I think they understand the complexity of the situation. We have to understand the bigger patterns, right? Another big pattern is this, that the telcos, again, we talked about earlier, that they serve the regions or the countries, right? But likes of AWS, likes of Google, likes of Microsoft, they are global companies. So Microsoft serves like 99% of the globe, right? But Italico cannot. So that's the trick, that's why they can't innovate. The utility side plus that point, I think, is a big- Right. Big point. Exactly, the point I was saying before is they're localized, right? They're restricted from doing crossing borders. There will definitely be opportunities for them to leverage Amazon to leverage them because when they want to come down to the local zones and local regions, they're going to segment the market. Okay, but the big telcos in the United States can, in theory anyway, they can certainly be Pan North America or Pan America. Can they be global? Sort of, there's certainly no restriction from them competing globally. They're just not in their DNA. Yeah, actually DT serves, like DT went to US and they bought T-Mobile, right? That's what they come, right? And then things are there. If your country is friendlier with the other country or your region, EU is friendly with US, for example, right? Then you can do these things. That was one of my questions for AWS folks yesterday. They were, day four yesterday, they were bragging about, oh, your call doesn't have to go all the way to US and you can just talk here. It's like, no, no, no. Not if the country is Iran and US. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they are still like boundaries. You know what else struck me? We haven't talked much about it. We talked a little bit, but the whole perception of this at the show and the presence of companies from China. Startups, the booths from many of the Chinese companies. China Mobile, obviously big keynote speaker, Huawei's huge, huge presence at the show. The world sees China differently, you know, outside of the United States. And it's, they're really a major innovator here. They're driving whether it's private 5G, O-RAN, AI. I mean, it's just amazing the innovation that you see and some of the biggest booths that we see here and startups, you were saying hall eight is full of startups as well. Yeah, actually. A lot of them I would imagine are from China. Yeah, there are a lot, I saw less Chinese, but a lot from other parts of Asia and Latin America because it's the way we're sitting kind of thing, right? And of course, Spain and many U.S. companies were there. I met the guy from Stanford who was presenting. You must have seen my tweets, right? Like they were presenting how telcos can help the hospitals and all that stuff. So that was a great panel. I was there for a couple of those sessions. The long story short, if you go to, okay, last year I wanted to go to a hall eight. I couldn't make it because I got busy in these. It's so huge folks, like if you're here, if you're not here, you can't guess how big this show is. Explain the order of magnitude, just give a taste. It's 95,000 people, we are told, but it's not the people, it's how big the booths are and how the halls are laid out. So there's hall one, two, three, and then four and five are parallel and this is the hallway in between those. And it's upstairs, just downstairs. Upstairs and downstairs as well. Okay, the best way to get next, if you're first time here, you will make this mistake which I made last year. Like I was walking around downstairs, like to go from hall one to four. No, no, no, don't do that. Go upstairs and it's much easier to walk through. Because less people, a little less, upstairs is the meeting rooms, but they're upstairs. Salesforce has a big presence upstairs and service now has a big, you know, long. I heard someone say yesterday, it feels like going to Costco on a busy Saturday. The difference here too is like, but if you remember, I didn't go to CES, but I imagine it's spread out all over Las Vegas in different hotels and it makes it even harder. Here at least everything's connected. It's like the Hanover in Hanover Square. Yeah, hall eight is like four years from now. It's all startups, it's called 4YFN. I knew that there are startups in number eight, but when I saw 4YFN, I was like, what the heck is that? I asked many, but they couldn't tell. It's four years from now. By the way, I want to see that, by the way. Thanks for bringing it. I want to check it out. I want to get your thoughts on a tweet you said earlier. So a couple of hours ago, you just did the whole tour with eight years, which you mentioned earlier. Here's your tweet, your point of view. Public Cloud has just started to flirt with Telcos comma. There's a lot more to come in the few months and years. Okay, let me mention those years and ones. What do you mean by the flirting? That's the story here that I'm seeing is that this has become a cloud data show. Yes. Cloud in the sense of distributed computing, architectures are coming to Telco. Telcos are still in charge with their value proposition, hence their position, as you pointed out, as a utility, but they got data. So now that the clouds are coming into the scene, what specifically do you see in terms of the cloud-Telco relationship? How would you describe that? Are they buddy buddies? Are they shaking hands? Are they staring at each other? Are they dancing? I mean, what's the partnership with the clouds and the Telcos? I want you to describe the current vibe. Yeah, I think the current vibe is... I'm being polite. Do they hate each other or do they love each other? They are dating each other right now. So they're kind of flirting. They haven't kissed each other yet, but they're still dating. Yeah, they're like this, you know, like that. They're assessing each other, it's like, okay, where should we, can we get together? You can't blame them. You can't blame the Telcos. Yeah, right? Okay, so what do you think it goes next? Is it a good date? They go on a follow-on date? They're going to go steady? What's the worst... Yeah, I think they have to. Because of the nature of the beast, because all these communications are zeros and ones now, they have to do it that way. They can do on their own. They can try to innovate their own, but because they are all segregated, they cannot innovate at the pace where big tech can. So for that reason, they have to go to big tech, in this case, because they need that work, a lot of data is involved, a lot of compute is involved. The amount of computing involved in these Telcos, routing calls, sending calls, voicemail, all that stuff, it is huge. You have a pin tweet on the 23rd of February when NVIDIA hit two trillion. A lot of talk about where do they go from here? Is this a bubble? Is it going to burst? Does NVIDIA have a long runway? Are they going to get disrupted by all these other companies, be it the hyperscalers or other firms that are building GPUs, LPUs, other specialized PUs? What are your thoughts on NVIDIA's sustainability of NVIDIA's current mode? I think this sustainability is better than what normally what people think. The reason being that developers are with them for all these 15 plus years. Jensen says 30 years, but that's too much. 15 years is even a lot of time, right? Another thing what Jensen said when he was talking to John Ford of CNBC, actually I did that dissection of that video, right? He is going into the next business models. He's super clever, super smart guy. He's telling his story that hey, we can sustain this growth going forward, right? So the key thing what he said was all the GPUs which are out in the market, it can be two years old, three years old, four years old, or the new H100s or all the current training GPUs. So if you can train, you can do the same thing what you can do on today's GPU, on three years old, four years old, five years old GPU, but it will run slow, but you can't do the same thing. That is huge because any developer sitting in sort of a small town of India or in Africa or any part of the world, they can play with that innovation and they can do experimentation. It's not like only the rich people or the rich countries can do this. And then the point is that today's training GPUs become tomorrow's inference GPUs. And that is a depreciated asset on the books. Now, Charlie Kawas, I learned today is yeah, but the problem they'll have is energy efficiency. So that could be a wild card. I'd like to come back with that and see what Jensen would say at GTC in a couple of weeks. Yeah, I'm going to go there. Are you coming there? We'll be there, yeah. So you're a local, so you will be there for sure? Of course, I'll be there. So yeah, no, you won't be there. No? Paris, oh, dang it. I'm like, KubeCon. Oh, I guess, oh, I'm going to be in Paris for CNCS. Plus I'll go to Paris, you go to GTC. Actually, I like to go to the GTC. No, I've never missed a KubeCon. Oh, cool. So thank you so much for coming on. Where can people get a hold of you? They want to engage with you, stack pain. You're doing a lot of great research. I love when we do the research analyst notebook segment where you get all your notes. You're always scouring and turning over rocks and connecting the dots. We really appreciate you involved in our KubeCollective. Where can people get involved with you and touch base and engage? Oh yeah, first of all, I appreciate what you guys do because our thinking sort of matches. Some people think I'm part of the Kube. I'm like business. No, no, no, no, no. I just love what they do. You're in the KubeCollective, so you're in the family as far as we can see. I'm in the family, of course. Yeah, people can get to me on Twitter. I live on Twitter.  That's why IdeaCup, like a- We got to get your Twitter handle up there. Sort of G2Haul, yes. It's just last name. First name, last name, at Twitter handle. At Twitter, yes. And LinkedIn is there as well. Email, S2Haul at stackpane.com is there. So yeah, I'm here to help anybody who wants to understand. But you're an engagement customer. And I also am a student of it. So I love these discussions. Anyone out there looking for a transformation, call Sarbjeeb. He's been a cloud architect. He's been an old school app developer. He's also an influencer now online because he's prolific. But he sees the big picture and he sees the cloud collision with Telco. He sees the cloud collision with the new apps and the super cloud. So always a great resource to tap. Appreciate your contribution to the Kube and we really value your presence and friendship. Thank you for being part of the Kube. Thank you. Thank you to all the brands I have worked with. We have Oracle, VMC, Visa, all these commerce ones, the dot com darling. I've learned a lot from those, the dot com darling. We've seen this movie before and great job. Thanks Sarbjeeb. Okay, we're back with more live coverage. We are in the Kube's Barcelona studio here in Spain, I'm John Furrier, your host with Dave Vellante. We'll be right back with more after this short break.


You too team keep it clean. What's going on the same grave in here with another video another episode of NFL questions from subs A series where you can ask me any NFL question you want to and we answered in a video just like this If you want to be part of it You can send me an email to team keep it clean at gmail.com or for the patrons You can send it directly on patreon and if you want to become a team keep it clean patron and join the list of people that You see you can go to patreon.com slash engraving vids and if you don't want to do that that's fine, too I still love you team keep it clean. We got some great questions like we always do Let's do it next question came from a guy baby. He said man with a couple of weeks This has been for the Ravens lots of loss and gain in the running game last year Williams was on the Ravens practice squad and he by far knows his offense better than any other back We have I say Tyson Williams should be the premier back There's no question on his talent level and ability to make good decisions in this process He is the number one back especially after proving point in the preseason Amar will only make him better as he did with JK and Gus Thanks for all the positivity even when things look down right now at them for these Ravens hashtag positive Appreciate it BB and um, I think we would all would agree with that for sure We all would agree with that for sure that Tyson Williams Yeah, that's your guy. That's your guy. That's your number one back. That's your starter He has the knowledge of the of the playbook over everybody else Excuse me. I didn't even have breakfast yet, but he has the knowledge of the playbook over everybody else So that goes to his advantage and he has shown you in the preseason what he can do and again Just a quick reminder Tyson Williams. Yes in the preseason. He looked good. He was going against backups He sure was but at the same time he was playing with backups as well. So Imagine him with the starting offensive line Starting wide receivers starting tight end.  You got a wonder if Lamar Jackson is going to take off Even if they come out and spray it if it's the empty back for you. You still got a wonder like man that Again, he's elite, but that's why it is he is just so stressful To think about I could imagine being a fan of another team and we going against Lamar Jackson And yeah, I would I would hear everything that the media says, but if I'm seeing this guy for myself I'm like, what? Please media don't know what they talking about.  We got to play Lamar. Oh, here we go, man. Oh Boy cuz that's that's like again. It's my first time like really really thinking about that. That's that's scary So with Tyson Williams and just all the running backs back that they they benefit so much But Tyson has a lot of stuff going in his favor and it does make sense like I say everything you said it makes sense Why he should be the number one first question came from a guy JD 118. He said that low engraving the team keep it clean Thank you for having me. I've been a diehard Ravens fan since day one My question is how well do you think the offensive line will hold up during the later part of the season? Are we built to withstand the last five games of the season which I believe will be critical to get wins And get the Ravens into the playoffs. Well, um, we're gonna see we're gonna see from jump I think one of the biggest things that we got a hope for and it's been rough so far It's really just health health is first and foremost because if you don't have health You can't have a good season, but you also can't have a bad. So you can't have a season at all So that's the biggest thing that we hope for and then of course Success with the offensive line them jailing with each other then getting more familiar with each other and getting more comfortable in building That chemistry up and with the offensive line Like my god cam says man, they got to be one. They got to be one because it is where somebody is weak Then that means they're all weak So you are just as strong as the person that you're next to and y'all got to be on point So we'll start seeing how well they're built Starting with week one and then there may be some growing pains because they haven't played that much together They practice obviously, but they haven't played that much together So but I think they'll be built for the long haul obviously the more that they play together the more Familiar they get with one another next question came from my guy Christian. He said ain't great. And thank you for this opportunity I've been following the channel since the last playoff game any for the sad face. Oh, yeah That was a big yikes game. He said I hope all is well God bless you and your family and let's have a good but also healthy season. Look at that C team keeping clean We be we all be on the same page. He said my question is do you see the Ravens leaning more to more past plays? I know they're never going to get away from the run. That's not who we are But before the balance was 70 30 Can you see us going 50 50 if not more passing since our best offensive weapons besides the baby goat is our past Catch us. Thank you again and go Ravens Yeah, I could definitely see them passing the ball more as far as a split I think it all just depends on the flow of a game but you don't drive to receivers in the first and fourth round and You don't bring in a Sammy Watkins. You don't add a TT and Kiki for no reason You don't do that for no reason. So we know and Ravens know we know what's been holding them back And the playoffs is the lack of a consistent passing game And just I hate that we got to repeat it so much But hey, the game is about to be in a couple days. So we'll see how this stuff starts changing But the thing to me what's been my biggest problem with the passing game is the lack of getting Everybody involved in playing them to their strengths. I hate saying it so much But I gotta say it so much because that's just what it is for me So hopefully this year they can do that But I do think they will be passing significantly more than they did for the past couple of seasons Next question came from my guy EJ. He said, what's up in Graven? How's everything? Hope you had a good weekend My question is do you think the Ravens could take a look at Rashawn Melvin? The Panthers just let him go and he had pretty good numbers last year. I It's always a possibility But with Rashawn Melvin, I don't think they'll go back down that road again He was a Raven before And it was up and down But yeah, so I don't think they'll look at him next question came from Corey He said should the Ravens give up one of their running backs for Byron Jones to help at the corner back position Since Peters is out Byron could bring some help to the second area if we made a deal I was thinking the Vate Freeman. What do you think? I don't think anybody would be taking a corner back on our practice squad in a trade for Byron Jones Well taking a running back on our practice squad. I think I said a corner back on our practice club Anyway, the Vante Freeman he signed to the practice squad and ain't nobody trading for no Devontae Freeman for no Byron Jones I would love it, but dolphins would have to be insane to do that trade man Byron Jones would be nice. He is very similar to Marlon Humphrey and what I mean when I say that is he He's not gonna get a bunch of picks every year, but his thing is just making sure that the Y receiver doesn't catch the ball Physical corner back so he would he would fit in well with what the Ravens do but price tag too much Ravens got like I think they got like three mil and I think they had the three mil before they signed Latavius Murray So now but and again they they could find a way to fit them if they really want but it just it'll be too much Flipping around with the cap and all that and it just at that definitely wouldn't happen It'd be nice, but it definitely won't happen. Next question or maybe comment came from Manuel So what's up in Raven shout out from Mexico? I was wondering if you could deliver this message to team keep it clean for me I know these past few days are feeling like everything is gloom and doom with all these injuries And it's not even the start of the season and we feel like a mid-season disaster I want to say to you that the response of Eric the cost on getting players to cover enough of what our injured Ravens can do has been quick and decisive in order to be ready for what seems like an impossible task for us fans But let me remind everyone of a game that we took for granted and barely got out of Everyone remembers the 2015 game against Cleveland and oh boy We decimated on personnel that game and still we were about to lose that one to a field goal But what did the Ravens do that reminded me of our good old general never give up after watching that kick six That let me know that in life for as much gloom and doom as we have around us to never give up And that is what the Ravens are doing They're fighting to get everything ready for the start of the season Despite their major setbacks because they know that once you enter the battle with the loser mentality You lost without doing anything stay safe team keep it clean And if everything clicks we can rest assured that Lamar will retire his first number after facing Brady in the Super Bowl Hey, that would be great to me. And yeah, the season again It hasn't even started yet for the Ravens So it's definitely not over and they are in still in good shape to do some damage this season So it's all about how they respond out now It'll be a little more on every player a little more on every coach, but yeah, they can get the job done Still next question came from a guy Devonte I'm sure he liked him about the Devonte Freeman signing anyway He said a engraving watch your videos now so much that me and my woman look forward to your video Okay, appreciate job me. I knew it was real when she started asking what a engraving said about it Hey, I appreciate that He said lol I love that woman, but now all jokes aside, do you think by Lamar running so much? It affects his QB mechanics sometimes think about it He gets running back carries and then he is expected to drop back and have great mechanics Fatigue has to play a part somewhere in it in my opinion. That's an extremely tall task I can see if he just scrambled when needed, but the carries I think may affect him a little just wanted to know your take on it Thanks for the videos man. You help out a lot more than you may know. I appreciate that Devonte And shout out to you and your lady to me. Oh, that's a really good. That's a really good question because Yeah, he does run the ball a good amount of times and and he's very effective at it, too um it could but uh No, I Think this year will really answer that because and I think with his mechanics. I think it was about more so about What he had been taught for so long Because now he changed I don't I don't think he worked with his I think Josh Harris That was his old QB coach for the for the longest. I don't think he worked with him anymore This offseason and he worked with Andy something and and they even mentioned somebody mentioned him in question from subscribers in a couple Days after that Lamar had mentioned him in a depressing I was like, oh, that's the name that the guy was talking about and then he'd work with a lot with James Urban is off-season too But so I think with him I know I don't think the one has to do with the other Now about him being tired from having to do so much sometimes. Yeah, I could see that part but no, I don't think one has to do with the other as far as mechanics because Because when you're running the ball, you're running the ball and when you're passing the ball You're passing ball is two completely different elements of the game And sometimes you combine them because you sometimes you got a run to pass and you got a run away Because you're offensive line and on a really block anybody so all those people come and they try to get you But anyway, no, no, I don't I don't really think one has to necessarily do with the other But this year we should see a big difference in Lamar as far as mechanics because that's been one of the things that he's needed to work on and that's one of the biggest areas he's needed to improve on and I know we just got a small glimpse But it looked like From what we saw in that preseason game that first drive and that's all we saw from Lamar but we've seen videos and stuff too, but It looks like his mechanics have improved a lot and it's throwing motion is smoother But we'll see the full size no more samples, but we'll see the full thing come Monday night Next question came from a guy job. Oh, he said prayers for our running backs MP and Fort with the injuries to our running backs Do you see us drafting running backs during the draft? Trust me? I hope you Gus JK and he'll come back better than ever, but we can't overlook how serious this injury is um, it's I mean, I guess it's never too early to think about the draft, but Yeah, I mean there's always the chance that the Ravens could take a running back during the draft because they run so much but there's also a Chance that they get these undrafted rookie free agent guys and make them shine, too So with JK with JK I don't see them taking around back early because they just took JK Dobbins in a second round by the time that draft rolls around And they will have had they will have taken JK Dobbins in a second round two years ago So I don't see them taking a running back early But so yeah, I can see them taking one late or undrafted, but the rounds won through Five I say no and next question came from my guy Lee B And real quick before we get into it. I gotta say I appreciate y'all so much for sending all of these to the correct email Thank you for that because it's it's getting to it was already been to the point for a long time, but We especially with the season starting now like it's we get we get so many questions And we're not gonna be able to answer all of them. We're just not cuz we're gonna get questions every single week We're gonna be backed up and stuff is gonna be crazy But thank you for making things in the process a lot easier by sending it to the correct email Thank you for that. Anyway, our next question came from my guy Lee said adversity affects people differently Some people let their self-respect be robbed by their self pity I don't think coach hardball is gonna let this team wallow and self pity But rather use this adversity to motivate his coaches players an entire team to reach new goals. They never imagine So, yeah, I I agree. I agree and that's something that we talked about like with the 2015 season They had a lot of injuries there starters that every single position got hurt Except fullback, but with that being said they still fought they fought in every game and Except they only got whooped in them two games But besides that they fought in every single game And that just showed like a these do they gonna play for hardball they gonna play for me They gonna fight for him and they did and this year like they're in much better shape than they were in 2015 So they'll be fine ex question came from my guy YPC. He said ain't great even hope you doing good Oh, yeah, we doing real good. I appreciate that He said, do you think that adding living on bail could be a potential to having a two-head monster backs while JK is out For the year with Gus Edwards. Oh Oh Okay, I just realized what this is really said And we always say timing is everything I see that this question came on September 8th So it was actually before Gus Edwards went out with injury and we'll just finish it We're not gonna take it out. But just to really just give you just to let how quickly things can change He said While JK is out for the year with Gus Edwards and leave me on bail Can it be a dynamic duo just like with the Browns Nick Chubb and Karim Hunt because both backs have similar traits That's painful right there and that ooh, man, that's tough man So yeah, it's unfortunate that we we won't ever get to answer that question and speaking of injuries next question came from my guy Isaac, he said a engraving hope this message finds you in a fam doing well Now I like many other Ravens fans have been really concerned with the injuries that have been piling up since training camp began He sent this on September 7th. So this was even before Gus Edwards and before Marcus Peters as well He said I count at least three season-ending injuries with Ford Dobbins and now Justice Hill Well ramp that up to five. I want to address the elephant in the room Is this still seriously bad luck or is this a result of bad coaching? At what point does all of this stop being bad luck and it might be time for our strength and conditioning team or other coaches to Take responsibility for all of these injuries because our players aren't adequately prepared We definitely shouldn't have gotten so many injuries without even playing the first game of the season Are we pushing our players way too hard? We'd love to hear your thoughts on it much love to you and team keep it clean Thank you. That is a great question. It's something that a lot of people have been talking about Some people have been talking about maybe it's the Ravens their facility. That's not their facility Their facility is top-notch Some people say maybe it's the strength and conditioning coach or the players just they they getting pushed too hard That's something that I was thinking about possibly Because I don't know man I then sometimes I sometimes I think oh, maybe was it cuz the last season to last see maybe it's the like the linger in the Facts are like, I don't think so Cuz this thing maybe last season they didn't have an offseason But now this season they have an offseason and it probably got a little ramped up and whatnot I don't think that's it though But I think it's just and I don't believe in bad luck or luck at all but with the It's just unfortunate man It's just stuff just been happening a little more for the Ravens in the norm Cuz they said Marcus Peters Gus out non-contact non-contact So and with Justice Hill I Don't I think he was a non-contact to LJ Fort was on the field And JK Dobbins was on the field of the in the Washington game So it's just been rough man But the guys like Marcus Marquise Brown Hollywood, so we're calling Marquise Brown Miles Boykin Who else Sammy Watkins at one time too, I think well, no not Sam Watkins had a he had a different injury, but There was oh Dionne Kane. I think it was no he had an undisclosed injury too Maybe it was Justice Hill But when all them guys were dealing with hamstring injuries like all of them and And and and Sammy Watkins was hurt Dionne Kane was hurt which our Bateman got hurt So there's something something I don't know what it is because my expertise is definitely not in the medical field I mean my expertise ain't even barely with football, but it's something to where it's like Why why because yeah the They're freak injuries and freak injuries do happen, but when you look at the consistency These torn ACL I think just as he was a torn Achilles though But though on and done all those hamstring injuries and then the groin cuz Marlon Humphrey was a groin injury Rashad Bateman was a groin injury And it's like No, man, I don't know. I just I don't know man. So I really can't call it but They they definitely you know, they're gonna take a deep dive into this thing this offseason I know you can't really do much right now Since the season is here But you so you could take a like a little dive, but you can't take a deep dive into it. So Mmm. It's something that's very very concerning. Obviously Like if there was like one or two and that was it and maybe one or two of each injury But okay, but it's been with three ACLs Justice Hill killies and then all autumn hamstrings. So we're seeing consistency with it And the consistency is what's the biggest concern? So it seems it seems like something is wrong I don't know what it is. Like I said, medical field no clue But yeah, they got to get to the bottom of that I guess this offseason next question came from my boy mad feet But he said engraving miss a team keeping clean himself. Hope you in the family doing well We're doing really good. I appreciate you. My question is since the Ravens already signed the Vonte female and Levy To the practice squad would it make sense to keep both or just let them show what they're about and pick one Hope you in the fam have a blessed day team. Keep it clean. Appreciate it, man Um, I think everything just really depends on health both of them have an opportunity to sort of audition for the Ravens I was just talking to one of my guys about this whole practice squad procedure versus active roster And yeah, it is like in an extended audition and extended interview and extended trial and extended workout Because you're not on the active roster you're on the practice squad. So you're on the team, but you're not on the team team So they can't do the two call-ups. They can sort of experiment with them and whatnot see how both of them guys are But I mean you got to expect Well, yeah, they don't have to so yeah, actually, you don't have to expect it I was gonna say you got to expect them to call up one At least to the active roster, but they don't really have to right now. They can just use both as game They call ups so um But with the Gus Elwood situation One of them is maybe both of them will get called up for the game But if they definitely both get in action real real soon sooner than expected probably so You may not even need to decide on one They may decide up because they got like a lot of running backs right now But they keep just they just keep getting hit so hard and they want to now stay ready So they ain't got to get ready again because they were ready before but then injuries made them not so ready So I think it all just depends it depends on health. It depends on roster It just depends on so much. So I don't think it's really about them keeping one over the other It just depends on so many other Moves and things that happen with guys around them on a roster next question came from my guy Tim are he said hey My roots go back to 1957 when I met the best defensive end of all-time Gino machete the most humble star I had ever seen when Bell comes in the game They know that it's going to be a pass. I was hoping for trading for a sharp penny The Tavius Murray is a good tandem back with Gus Edwards. Now. He sent this on September 7th so before the Gus Edwards Before he got hurt and also before the Raven sign the Tavius Murray days later So yeah, you end up getting exactly what you asked for next question came from my guy Adam L You said with the signing of Trent and Cannon, what do you think this means for Levy on bill? They just meant that was not gonna play special teams Nobody expected in the play special teams and nobody thought he was gonna ever play special team So that that was it a question came from a guy Eddie 1835. You said what's up in gravy and team keep it clean I've been watching the channel since the late 2018 Raven season. Love how you wrapped the Ravens and cover the game of football Appreciate that Eddie due to our injuries to our starting three running backs being out for the year That's devastating for any fan of any team in general, but with the Raven signing Tyson Williams Devontae Freeman Levy on bail and the Tavius Murray Who do you think will win the starting running pack position for the 2021 season for the Ravens and who do you like to? Who would you like to see when the position? I think right now?  Um, but he just got to keep doing what he been doing trusting yourself believing yourself Yeah, it's gonna be guys looking over your shoulder because they want to be out there They want to be the number one backs too because they all have been number one backs before You have never been a number one back before in the NFL All of those guys have been number one backs before all of them has rushed for over a thousand yards I started running backs before they got that experience over you. So it's your job To show the coaches that a I can hold this down I can end up being another running back that goes for over a thousand yards and is the number one back in the NFL as I'm a starter So Tyson William I hope that he gets in and I hope that he holds it down because it's one thing to get it It's one thing they'll get it by default because right now he has it by default But it'd be another thing for him to earn it and keep it and hold it down Especially when you have all of that but like all of that behind you and that's a lot like that's a lot of pressure on him You got late leave me on bail Once regarded one of the best running backs in the league the Vonte Freeman He's also runs to guard is one of the best running backs in the league And you got you still got Latavius Murray He'd be even good to now Then you got Trent and Ken and the young speedster now Trent Ken and I don't think he poses a threat But still you got a lot behind you right now. So Yeah, he got to be on he got to there's a lot of pressure on him But again, like I said, he got a distrust in himself