agenda. So as I am looking at things here, I'm hoping we can make a couple of changes. One is, Cameron, how'd you feel about moving the COVID update to the end? Okay. Okay. And then I think that I think that might be it actually in terms of the order. So that's any other suggested changes here team? Not for me. Okay. All right. So without objection, we'll consider the agenda approved. And so on to general business and appearances. So this is an opportunity for any member of the public to address the council on a topic that is otherwise not on our agenda. So if you're here to talk about a specific item, please do hold your comments till that item if it's on tights agenda. But if you have something else you'd like to bring up now's the time to do it. And if you would say your name and where you live and try to keep your comments to two minutes or less, that would be fabulous. And that generally speaking goes for other comments for the remainder of the evening. So that I think that's all the preamble I need to do about that is what anyone like to address the council and for this, you know, looking at Cameron to say, Hey, there's somebody or you can, you can wave or you can unmute yourself and Cameron. Yes. Nope. Just going to tell everyone raise your hand feature.  So I can see you if you'd like to speak. Okay. Is there anyone who would like to address the council? Okay. And just confirming Cameron, you don't have anybody that you're seeing. Okay. All right, fair enough. Thank you. So we're going to move on. So the first thing here for the next thing is the consent agenda. Is there a motion regarding the consent agenda? I move the consent agenda. Second. Okay, there's a motion and a second. Any further discussion about this? Okay. All in favor please say aye. And opposed. Okay. No opposed. So the consent agenda passes. All right. So moving on, we have street closure slash painting request that looks a little familiar here. And actually for this, so just one thought. I'm sure there's probably some folks who would like to comment on that. That's or actually, is Erica Reddick on the call? I don't see Erica. So for this, just to introduce this, I wonder, Bill, if I can turn this over to you, because it would appear as though last or one of our previous meetings, we created a street painting policy. And so there might be a question about like, why are we considering this now? And so to answer that question, I'm going to turn it over to Bill, if that's okay. Hi. And I tried to provide you some clarification in writing last night, which we had into the meeting documents, which I did send to Ms. Reddick last night. So we've had, you know, this is a new policy in years past. We've for a long time, we've had street closure applications. And this actually came in as a as a prior one came in as an application to close the street for the purpose of street of painting this justice for all of the flag on the street. And that's the way it was heard on July 7 and not, you know, and denied by the city council. We got the identical application for Labor Day. But taking a look at the rules and regulations as well as our policy, because the council has said that, and I think appropriately that any street painting is actually the action of the city, even if somebody else does it for the city, it is the city's choice to do that. It is an application in the same way that somebody might want to put something in a park or build something in a park. And we might say, yes, you may put that in our city park. But it's in you'll do it, but it's still the city accepting the responsibility for that as opposed to someone having some sort of public right to install things in parks without city's permission. So because of that, the city can close the street anytime it wants. I mean, obviously we would want to be good neighbors and provide notice and warning and all that stuff. But we close streets all the time for construction, for water leaks, for emergencies, for any other thing that we see fit. And so there's no reason why the city can't close street for the park, you know, and we close it for street painting, even for line straightening or parking lot spaces, or at least partial street closing. So, you know, I think, I think, so basically the conclusion is we don't need a street closure application for any street painting. If the street painting is better approved by the city, then the city can close the street when it sees fit. And we can decide how much notice is necessary. So the group here applied for street closure, I think in good faith, thinking they were applying for street painting. And so I don't think they should be dismissed on that matter. But I don't think you need to consider the street closure, unless the group or the applicant, I guess just really just come in and money wants to have an event or something that would follow our street closure policy. So they'd be welcome to amend their request. So my advice to you is you don't need to take up the street closure. So then we turn to the street painting. And they did submit this application before the street policy was enacted. And so therefore, you know, I don't think we can just say, well, they didn't do it the right way. But it does mean that they have to follow our policy. I'm going to the end of my demo, but I think it's very clear. There's no vested rights with something like this. This is the ability to do something on city property. This isn't like a right to do something on your own property where you're seeking, you know, you applied under one set of zoning and now it's going to change and you still have rights under the old rule. This is saying, if you want to paint something inside of city hall, this is how you do it. And so we've said that furthermore. I mean, if they were to be considered on, you know, pre policy, they already were this exact same application was considered on July 7 and turned down by the council for its reasons. So I think the fact that it came in early is kind of irrelevant. So then it becomes following the policy. So then as we walk through the policy, the first step in the policies, it must have a council sponsor. Now it can certainly under our charter, it's welcome to be on the agenda. I mean, in a perfect world, we'd have a sponsor ahead of time, but they're welcome to be on the agenda. But before it can go any further, there needs to be at least one council member that sponsors this again, because this is city, a city action of putting paint on its own street. If there's none, then it basically concludes then. That's the end of the item. If there is one, then you would go and have your discussion and decide, does it meet our policy? And I've pointed out three areas that I think there might be conflicts with the policy, but there are several other things in the policy that talk about does this represent community values and those kind of things. And I think those are really at the discretion of the council to determine not staff. But I think the proximity to the intersection, the fact that there's a flag and the fact that it seems to modify an existing statement of painting seem sort of technically clear that those match. You know, I certainly think in certainly in sort of doing things right that we, you know, you may want to hear from people before you reach a decision or decide whether there's a sponsor. If you may want to hear people's points of view on this, that we are a government. I think technically that's how you receive. Okay, so I do not see Erica Reddick on line here. So I think at this point I'm going to ask the council if there is anyone who would like to sponsor this painting. Okay, I'm not seeing anyone. So I'm going to assume that the item then we can basically move on since there's not there's not a sponsor for the for the painting. Now, I'm guessing that there may be a few people who want to comment on that. And so I am going to I'm going to let folks comment if they like, but if you would keep your comments to two minutes or less, that would be great. And yeah, so there, there we are. If you would like to make a comment about this topic, you can either raise your hand or you can do the hand icon or what are my other choices here camera and flagging icon wave. I think that's or okay. Okay, so the name I see here is Jeffrey Flanders. Um, is would you like to speak? I'll I'll give the I'll give it over to Don Marie who will seem to be before me. This is you've heard from me before. Yes. I'm going to pass it over to Alex. Okay, if you will. That is fine. Okay, John Marie, go ahead. This is just and also if you would, if you'd say your your last name where you live. Yes, my name is Don Marie Tomasi. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes. Okay. Alice, thank you very much, darling. I love to see you as usual. Um, I just wanted to say that I was concerned as to when the council decided to make it a point that you needed a sponsor at what date I was interested in that and also, um, who brought forth that ID, ideology, and who I'm assuming you all agreed with it, but I was just curious as to who brought it forth on that date. Also, um, he did mention that, um, you're concerned with the unity message. And I find it hard to believe that, you know, the last line of our oath, you know, liberty and justice for all could possibly can be construed as something other than what it exactly is. Um, that's what we're looking for is unity and, you know, promoting it as as Americans as a whole. And I'm hoping people see that from us and not put something else forth upon us. Um, we want us to get along with our neighbors and our neighbors to get along with us. And that is part of the reason why we thought this was a good idea to bring forth again. So thank you. Oh, Domary Tomasi. And where you did you say were you from? I forget I'm from Berrytown and I'm actually running for Washington County, Tennessee. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Um, Alice, do you want to speak? You're muted though. While we're waiting for it to unmute, I will answer Ms. Tomasi's question. The council passed a policy on August 12. It was duly warned. It was drafted after a discussion with the council. And so it was brought forth as a committee of the whole. And that included the sponsors should be able to note some of the. Go ahead, Alice. Okay, I'm really disappointed that the council as a body decided to change the rules concerning the street painting. Since the first one that was there did not come under those same rules. I'm it reminds me of, to be very honest, and I'm not pulling the race card, but it reminds me of separate but equal from my last speaking to you all, you all know that I was born during the civil rights movement and I was there when Reverend Dr Martin Luther King was assassinated and the whole story. I recall from my father how he was a freedom writer and went into Mississippi with a couple of white men to help people register to vote. I remember how difficult it was for certain people of color, black people to vote across the United States because they came under different rules than did others who were not pigmented in the same way. I'm very, very disappointed that the message that underlies our Constitution, liberty and justice for all is considered hate speech or negative in any kind of way. You would have to convince me that this was not meant to further a political agenda of a group that may not be construed as embracing liberty and justice for all, but perhaps liberty and justice for some. And I'd like to comment that this group Black Lives Matter, even though there are many people of color in it, are also many of them white youths who haven't a clue what civil rights is all about, except what they've gotten through their from their schools. I would like to see liberty and justice for all painted on the streets as a mural in Montpelier, just as Black Lives Matter because all lives matter. You will be held, history will hold us accountable for this moment. I'm going to interrupt you here, Alice, because you're only two minutes or so now, so if you have any final thoughts there. Okay, is there not even one among the Montpelier council who would be willing to at least entertain the thought that Black Lives Matter is legitimate, but so is liberty and justice for all? Is there not one among the Augusta body? And that's what I would have to say.  My last name is Flanders. I'm using Jeff's computer. I'm okay. I'm in White River Junction. I'm actually running for Windsor 4-2. And by the way, yes, Flanders, you know that name, Senator Ralph Flanders from Vermont who stood alone on the Senate floor against Joe McCarthy was my husband's grandfather. Okay, thank you very much. Cameron, do we have anyone else? I just want to note that Erica Ruddick is on the call now, if you'd like. Okay. At this point, I'm just going to go in the order that I see folks. So I saw Lynn Dyke and then Brock Kodir. I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing your names. Lynn, go ahead. Okay, well, first of all, I want to say that I am very proud to be an American. And I like liberty and justice for all. And I like the fact that all lives matter. It is not hate speech to me. And I don't know how it ever became hate speech. I went to the rally to support the police. And that was horrible. And what the impression I get of the Black Lives Matter movement personally is I saw it with my own eyes. And some of the signs that were there and held up were not good ones. But you didn't see that on the news at all. But I did have a conversation with the people, the conversations. And I did have a conversation with a reporter. And what I told her is that we should all be Americans and we need a softer side of this. And just putting that on there, Black Lives Matter, what about us that are not? And what about them who would like to see liberty and justice for all? I mean, I think the Black Lives Matter movement has been hijacked. It's not what it started out to be. And I think we need to get unity back and get some common sense back. Liberty and justice for all, those are not bad words and that is not hate speech. And I am willing to fight to the end to defend that. I'm also running for the House. Addison for I live in Bristol. Sorry, I was muted just now. Thank you, Lynn. Brock, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you actually saying my name properly. You might be the first person then ever. So well done. Brock O'Dare, running for State Representative, the House of Representatives out of Washington, Chittenden, Dettrick, actually out of Waterbury Center. I'm nearly just here to be a fly on the wall and see how things are going and how this meeting will end up. But honestly, I'm just here to say I was kind of alarmed that our local government was capable morally of allowing one group political movement or anything to receive special treatment over anybody else. I understand the message behind it. I truly think it's a noble cause. But at the same time to disallow another group to say something is showing preference, and that's technically not acceptable as far as I'm concerned. And that's honestly, that's all I really have to say. I was just kind of disappointed in my local government. I think that unity is key at this point. I just drove all the way out to Colorado to see my family and everybody had that interviewing just wants things back to the way they were. They want to put that work in and reinstill the faith that people have in their fellow Americans. I think showing them the Constitution, how everybody is protected by that good piece of paper is a great way to do it. And I think that we should try to look for more than one person on the council, maybe half of you folks, yes or no. I don't really, really see any reason why red, white, and blue should be considered offensive these days. And that's all I have to say. Thank you. Sorry, thank you. I'm seeing Sean Stevens on. And then, Erica, if you want to make a comment, you may. Go ahead, Sean. Hi, folks. Thank you. I'll be super short because I actually came to comment on something later in the agenda. I just want to hop on and say I do support the decision you guys have made. Contrary to what the last few people have said, I think putting Black Lives Matter unequivocally and without dilution by other messages is super strong, super powerful, and super right. You did the right thing. And if everybody thought it was super important to vote liberty and justice for all painted on the street, why didn't they want to do that before the Black Lives Matter got painted on the street? It is becoming a big deal for a lot of people right now because they intend to dilute the Black Lives Matter message and to try to draw the spotlight away from that message. I disagree with that and I think you guys did the right thing and I appreciate it. Thank you, Sean. Did you say where you live? Yeah, my apologies. I live right here in Montpelier. Okay, thank you. Erica and then Samantha, did you have your hand raised? Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. I apologize for being late to the meeting. I would just like to say thank you for actually giving us the opportunity to be heard. I was very discouraged by the email that I received from Mr. Frazier saying that you guys could just dismiss us because we've already submitted the same application and it's already been dismissed because John Clark is a racist. So the idea that we still get to come and be heard is very important because while the sentiment of Black Lives Matter is one that everyone can agree with and get behind, as the wife of a Black man, as half my family is Mexican and more of my family is not white than they are white, we can all agree that that message is important and that these conversations need to be had. But as far as diluting the message, I don't think with liberty and justice for all is diluting the message. I think Black Lives Matter is diluting its own message with things like all cops are B words and F the police and abolish the police and a lot of other things that the majority of Americans are not behind. And so I would just say that this is not about just Black Lives Matter and this is not just about painting on the street. It's about a governmental entity believing that it is okay to promote one political party over another. That is not okay. So however you feel about Black Lives Matter and however you feel about the Pledge of Allegiance doesn't really matter when we're talking about policy, public policy and how and in what way it's appropriate for a government to behave with its constituents, with its message and with our money, with our time. So I would just say if it's okay for the government to do things like paint Black Lives Matter on the street and that's okay and that's governments, then I'm not sure why you would have anything against prayer in the school and other things like that. Saying the Pledge of Allegiance and doing other things that other people believe are important and meaningful and thoughtful and bring unity. So again I'm just, I would just ask that the City Council apply its logic to all circumstances rather than just the ones that are convenient for them. Thank you very much. Thank you. Samantha. I'd like to thank you all for again giving us this opportunity to speak. My name is Samantha Philippe and I live in Orange. I'm running for a house position for Orange County District 1 and I have been going off of what people before me have said and how surprised I am that people that are supposed to be representing our capital city can shoot and clearly show that they are choosing one side over the other to be represented. Inside is the wrong word. One portion gets to speak and gets to have their voice put out and then when we asked responsibility to get put out and as a gentleman that said a little bit before why didn't we do this before? Well, why wasn't before there a new policy about no street painting? Why did that have to be put in once there was already one painting? That's why I think we start to see the gap where it's just a harder line being driven and Liberty and Justice for all that is for all and Mr. Pete I know when you put your uniform on you care about all of us. I know when I was an EMT a firefighter it didn't matter to me you know who you were you know what was happening I cared about you and what I could do to help you and Liberty and Justice for all means that we all get to have Justice and Liberty. For me it doesn't matter the color of your skin your education your age where you work it matters who you are and your heart and your character and so now we are being told that we are all racist because we are asking for Liberty and Justice for all to be proudly displayed just as other sayings are being proudly displayed as they should be and I ask each one of you that have made the decision to tell us no to really think at home tonight about what you are saying you all are in the position you are in because of the people around you and I know that you are not representing what I would want my capital to say that they would want one side more than the other or one group over another. Samantha I'm going to interrupt you're over two minutes at this point if you have any final thoughts. Yeah I would like for you guys to think about this a little bit longer thank you. Thank you. Okay I am not seeing anybody else raising a hand camera to anyone okay we I don't think we need to revisit this as a council necessarily anyone want to change the mind we heard this okay all right so we are going to move on in our agenda so the next thing is because we move the COVID-19 update to the end the next thing is a homelessness task force and I actually to be fair just to put a cap on on the previous item I just want to say for myself I think we are representing the values of our community and I'm proud that we painted Black Lives Matter on the street and I'm glad that we are not bookending it with a different message so all for patriotism and you know being American at the same time believing that we can hold ourselves to a higher standard than where we're at right now as Americans so and that to me is a part of what the message is but anyway that's that's sort of where I'm at but we're going to move on so the next thing is the homelessness task force so they have a request for proposal they'd like to put out and I thought I saw Shayna on the meeting it's going to be Ken Russell oh Ken I also saw Ken Ken would you like to speak about this sure thank you Ann so what we have is this street outreach position that we've discussed previously and we've put it in the form of an RFP that'll allow different agencies to apply for the money Cameron worked really hard on the RFP with Will Aberly and other members of the committee and we've gone through the fine tooth comb and it's you know just over 33,000 you know it's the allocation that you so generously gave us and so this will allow an agency to apply to support a street outreach worker a pure street outreach worker they have some they would have some flexibility and how they administer the program I mean they will apply and try to make it most appealing and there will be a small there will be there's a request that they allocate a percentage of the budget for supplies which is an ongoing need for the folks out on the street there was some conversation about the livable wage which of course is a strong value for this council there is a little bit of flexibility in the language because some of the people who tend to go for these positions might be balancing other needs like sometimes they're trying to keep their income and their hours worked under a certain range so I know that technically if it's under $200,000 that that livable wage does not apply but we with the language encourages the use of it but also gives the applying organization some latitude to negotiate if the person applying for the job request it some some flexibility to say keep their income under a certain thing because sometimes that that might affect other services they might be receiving it's I mean I think we've discussed quite a bit about how important this need is for the folks out on the street certainly with the uncertainty about what's happening with the folks in the motels we don't fully understand what the state plans are going to be I'm not sure anybody does you know right and you know and with the impacts of COVID what the impacts of federal money are going to be so there is a certain amount of the population that just doesn't stay indoors and so there's there are always folks outside and you know there's been movements you know in terms of the overflow shelters there's you know we don't have what we used to have so that's that's kind of it I'm in a nutshell happy to answer any questions thanks Ken I have one question to start here is this a second person or is this just I know we had talked about hiring somebody gosh back a while ago now when we had this conversation is this is this that person potentially or is this a second person this is that person is that person okay great thank you any other budget right so this is just the RFP to to find that person really okay any questions comments from council Donna go ahead thank you Ken a very informative draft as far as your program management my question is spending all the money on just this there were other things in the budget you showed us your proposed expenditures so what's going to happen to some of those other needs if we put all the money into this avenue versus trying to get some grants to supplement it or add to it that's a good question Donna I I mean I I think I mean this has always been very much the top of our perceived priorities this is you know what we felt is the most important is somebody out there meeting people have we can get their needs met and you know when we were dealing with a bigger pot of money some of those other things made sense but when it was windowed down and you still were quite generous in what we ended up with it did I think we all felt like it's this we felt like this created the most bang for the buck for lack of a better phrase so yes there are other other needs and I think we're actively looking for how to get looking for other funding sources I mean I think our we've had good generosity from the community with supplies and I think we could I think there's fundraising potential for this population I think there's a lot of goodwill and concern for folks who are out there that's helpful to know I guess I still would tend to go to like 25 30 and have some buffer we seem to have emergencies that show up so it just concerns me to spend all of it yeah I hear you I hear you Donna Jack go ahead thank you thanks Ken I read the the proposal and I'm here I have a couple of questions what is have have there been any organizations so far that have been identified or expressed the interest in in doing this and two which is a related question is would it be consistent with your planning if some organization were to propose to use you know split this work between a couple of people instead of an identified individual which seems to be what the proposal is talking about right well I I think I think it could work well with splitting the time and there's been some conversation around that because it can be very taxing work and you know and if sometimes you're wanting 24 hour coverage so there's definitely this doesn't preclude that as far as organizations yeah I mean and frankly you know we probably I mean there are some some of the organizations that we're all affiliated with on the task force there's folks who are interested in applying so Rick has mentioned for Good Samaritan Haven um and I I'm going to be I am very likely going to be associated with an organization that may apply so that is a potential conflict and we talked about that at the at the task force meeting on whether it was appropriate for me to present here I can't I can't disclose what organization that would be yet don little who's on our task force is the person who's been doing this work the whole time and would you know I think a lot of people would say she could very well be person hired so one of the things that Rick mentioned was that I mean I and I don't know who he's thinking but he's thinking he wanted he might he would consider applying in in partnership with another organization um and and I know there's some language in there about sort of encouraging partnerships between organizations and I know Washington County mental health is is very interested at least in the conversation on how this is set up and they participated in some of these conversations and in the meeting you know two weeks ago or three weeks ago at this point so you're not going into this worry that you won't have anyone stepping up to do it once you once this is released I don't think so no there's this is I mean I I think everybody I've talked to sees this as a great need and and also and and we've tried to encourage and as you know back to counselor Bates comments back in February looking regionally and making sure we're working with Barry in Berlin and in coordination with all the different agencies with public safety with Washington County so I mean so I think the the need is quite clear the efficacy of this approach everyone agrees about so um and you know and and it's the reality is there's um a lot of people are working on homeless and this is the position that actually gets people out on the street face-to-face with folks in the environment where they spend a lot of their time great thanks yeah so just piggybacking on uh jack's question it made me think of uh well your answer really brought this question to mind which is that if there's a number of folks from within your um from the task force that either may be applying or have um you know some thought about applying or connections to applying who's actually making the decision to award that Cameron yeah sorry I just mean to jump in as staff representative for this committee as we would either take as many committee members as we could who weren't part of the application get them to vote or present that to a couple ad hoc volunteers who would be interested in reviewing these RFP responses but okay people who had been applying or were associated with the groups they were applying would not be reviewing the RFPs great I'll be in Cindy money so you'd have to approve it right right you would get it right okay I just wanted to make sure there was enough folks who would not recuse themselves that decision could be made so that's that's good um other questions for Ken well Lauren hey thanks I think this I'm really excited to see this moving forward I know we've been talking about it for a long time so thank you for all the work that's gone into it it's it's exciting yes my only question is um kind of tied to what Donna was asking like particularly knowing that there's been kind of big changes this year with COVID and how the state has stepped up and knowing that there might be you know unique needs this year with the pandemic still going on like just are are there still resources like is the state still stepping up or there's still like COVID relief funds and things that are helping are you anticipating like that's going to run out and we're going to you know be up against the wall at some point just kind of curious if there's dynamics that we should be aware of um and I guess it gets to that like is there a cushion we should be building in um for you know kind of emergency needs particularly at this really hard time I appreciate the question I mean I I mean and some of it's uh there's definitely some unknown in there and I mean we'll you know we'll ask this question of Will Everly who's you know field director for AAHS and he answers the best he can but obviously there's decisions being made up of the hierarchy and resources are not assured and I mean there's it's so there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff going on upstairs in terms of what actually trickles down so I I think this position and having it just built and sustained locally here is a really fantastic thing and wonderful commitment on the part of all y'all um to quote Cameron and I don't know if I did that right but um but seriously it is there there's an there's unknown in terms of the state level and like back in March during the you know early COVID we were trying to get money for hand washing stations and things like that so um and and the cost of putting folks up in the motels is is quite high um and I'm not sure how sustainable it is I mean the the motel program was already the general assistance program before was already um the subject of financial stresses so part of I think our overall thinking as a task force is is taking some responsibility here locally for this population and what's happening there and looking outside the what you know expecting there to be federal money trickling down um and and um and I've you know somebody just last week was saying you know the squeeze is on you know and so I mean I think yeah you can't count on their band resources but you will count on their being human you know people you know getting pushed out on the streets so um Dan go ahead yeah just to follow up to that Canon maybe a clarification question this position that this RFP would fill really is a someone to basically triage identify connect with people with homeless who are you know encountering homelessness and to assess their needs and to try and connect them to the services so that it's really going to be dependent ultimately the success of this position some respects on what services they can connect them to right right right one you know there's a certain range of services that are that are there but uh housing is what's really needed and affordable housing and you know that's true for a lot of remoders the cost of housing's gone up that you know there's there's a whole issue there right I mean there's there's housing there's food there's mental health issues that are all tied into this but I just wanted to be clear and just so I can understand and maybe also so the audience listening at home that we're clear that this is this is really about trying to come up with a uh someone who can start to do that those assessments which I think are my understanding is that that's the important first step for for these populations to start to get them because it builds first of all it connects them to these populations and then secondly it also would you know effectively build that understanding of what the numbers and needs are so that if there is seeking for funding we at least know what the population looks like and what their needs are I mean obviously the the the big one's not being any hidden secret or particularly complicated okay right no the assessment knowing what's actually out there is important and it's also in connecting people to the degree that you can with existing services as limited as they might be in some ways but in addition there are people out there who are hard to reach and who who just are vulnerable out on the street and need some have some basic needs to be met Donna then taunter yeah um I'd like to ask chief Pete if he would make any comment on this worker since you'll be right your police officers will be right down the front line with them have you read through the report and have a comment um I haven't had a chance to look through the report very in depth in depth way but I do think that as far as what I think the department is goes um is that if we're looking at the totality of everything um that the department will make sure that it uh it does its best to partner with everyone for the benefit of everyone in the community um so so again with with a lot of the talk and discussions of which calls for service police should be responding to um the resources are limited for officers to point people who are in critical situations um our resources are limited on how we can do that so so we're just cognizant of again of mission creep and just to making sure that we don't that that if it's a service that can be handled by somebody who is better prepared um uh and equipped to do it then it's something that we're we're definitely totally all for thank you great um Connor and then Dan we'll come back to you hi Ken first of all thanks so much for all the work you're doing and uh I know we don't give you too much to work with and really trust that you're making the best use of the resources so really grateful for that it'd be anecdotal but um a lot of homeless folks I talked to can seem to split their time quite a bit and even their days and weeks um between Barry and Montpelier um I was just wondering if you found that to be the case you know broader than just folks I spoke into and if so how much of this needs to be a conversation between the two cities just so there's some consistency um you know I can see value in seeing the same faces you know is this worth a discussion with the Barry City Council at some point uh maybe make this more of a full-time position just like we're talking about with the social worker position absolutely no and and it's no it's not just your anecdotal information bears out it's very real that and folks will travel back and forth um between the two cities they're different services they might access in each one or oftentimes it's like people need a ride to a motel down in Barry from Montpelier um so yeah it's definitely part of the same circuit um we the connection with um Barry and Berlin and you know regionally is is is very important and I think most people we work with well understand it and seen a lot of good um you know we we you know we get we've had conversations you know with folks in Barry and with us there's there's good you know there's you know there's good folks working and we do our best to network but yeah any council to council connection on this is great we did Erica rail who's on our council is on our task force is on Barry City Council and so she's she's she's talked to them about this this work um you know they they have Brooke Puglia who's who's on you know on their force and you know we we have meetings together and and sometimes the meetings are just like what's going on out there and that's you know and sometimes just that that basic real-time information is really important sometimes like again like rick de angeles had a good samaritan haven well you know he's running busy trying to keep it all together and sometimes those meetings are good opportunities for him for like say tim bombardier to understand from him what's going on or or now chief peter you know she you know like just trading information every which way makes great sense um and you know and there's there's different approaches and there's different things we can learn from each other too so great dan so i just have a follow-up to don and connor's question chief p so it sounds like this position can be helpful to you as essentially another resource for these type of situations that it's not after a first responder type situation to sort of hand off is the way the position is drawn up um something that will help that you'll be able to work with or were there would there be any sort of the changes or requirements to position that you you'd want to see um that would be helpful in interfacing with your department for us sir i think that um it's it's one of those things that we can plan as best as we possibly can and we won't know what those gaps are until we have something in place but um as far as this department um and how we will uh move forward it it's totally uh community partnerships and goal oriented and it's it's it's we're all on board with the sharing of information and doing everything that we can to um help because that is that's the underscore what what is we're here to do right well it also strikes me that you know this is another resource so that if there is you know if there is an encounter with a homeless person that is in a more remote area or such that you know you would have this uh this person to con you know to essentially bring into the conversation to connect with and that would be you know an item off of your plate to have to deal with that they could they could deal with that and i i would just want that to be something and it sounds like it is and i just wanted to make sure that it was but it sounds like it might be another resource in your your toolbox um or the city's toolbox but yours in particular if if while your first responders does encounter this type of situation and can bring this person in yes sir i would i would definitely agree with that and and with that premise i probably would also uh if we're in regards to um how the the position is currently looked at how it's written i probably have to talk with gary and susan lemire who is our new embedded social worker um they're in on this call as well and and talk with them about how they think that a good fit for it might be um or or how we're going to utilize it but i'm i'm pretty very confident that um it's going to be a total team effort and like you had mentioned it's another resource that all of us can go to um to free up law enforcement so law enforcement can concentrate on law enforcement and social services can concentrate on the things that they do best thanks yes can i respond i i just i i just want to underscore that very much the thinking and i think it will bear out that this really will will do just that will take address some of the issues that need addressing and take pressure off law enforcement and supplement it um and it i've seen it again and again so you know i i i think it i think you'll find that it's a it really will it be a win-win for us so great so um not seeing any anybody raising hands further here so uh is this is something that you all need a motion on is that right uh madame mr. mayor madame i'd like to speak on this oh yes absolutely um uh is that steven it is okay yeah go ahead steven so i mean as much as i applaud the work that don does i think that this is so much talk and really ordering on self delusion don has no resources to work with even if she has a a wage the fact that you know daily i'm i'm calling don three or four times a week to try to find a tent for somebody or a translator who can speak indian or you know or find out why 211 is not helping anybody and all don has is a lot of you know reasons like well that's all we got we don't have anything nothing works so to pretend that a year and a half after we started you know i've been it happening on y'all for a year and a half over this issue and to finally get a paid person to do what we're doing every day anyway is is really absurd when y'all can't even get a bathroom or a shower available to these folks much less uh a place to go and get a sleeping bag or a tent or a designated safe place to camp i mean the people are are pissing in your pocket park crapping behind your churches and we can't do anything about any of that you need a plan to position or federal funds or even for some of these remaining care funds you need a plan more than you need just to pretend that having paying your existing outreach workers is going to change anything you know that the dignity is missing you've got policemen stealing beer from homeless people you've got you know you've just got a a uh you're undermining the dignity in treating folks like they don't deserve a shower don't deserve a place to crap you know but the construction workers get to use the new bus station you know so the hypocrisy or the self delusion of this conversation is really infuriating you know i wish the ecologists would take seriously that you need and that task force should have written a plan by now so they were prepared to ask for funds of what we would do which buildings would be used for which could be ventilated for covid which half grounds could be set up with covid trailers for small issues interrupts you here saying because uh you're at uh you're a little over two minutes here do you have anything of any further like final thoughts okay um all right i saw hands from i thought Cameron and jack but i'll i'm going to go jack first also donna did you have your hand up no okay all right so jack and then camera thank you i'm getting ready to move that we support this but i notice we have the the due date seems to be the only thing that only detail that hasn't been filled in yet and so i'm wondering what date we should put in um so if you don't mind me if i can answer that question yeah go for it yeah um that was left blank because we didn't know if you wanted to have more conversation or what the outcome of this meeting would be and we didn't want to put too close of a deadline the deadline will probably be in consultation at our next homelessness task force meeting so that they can discuss it what they feel is a fair timeline in the time of covid um you know we do have some subject matter experts there um so i'd like to hear from them about that timeline what they think is realistic because it is a pretty robust rfp um you know because if you want to be very careful with public funding um that comes from the city um i did want to sort of address some of the issues about supplies um ken mentioned it earlier but i do want to sort of re-emphasize and i think it gets a little bit to lauren and um donna's uh council member lauren and donna's um comments is that we do ask that a pretty large percentage of the money is spent on supplies so not all of the money is going into uh administration overhead for the organization or service provision but to supplies to get those sleeping bags to get those to that food to get that car ride to get the taxi um because we don't know what's going to come up but we don't know what people will want or need so we did try to write that in or the task force did try to write that into their rfp thank you sorry may may i say something in in the lines of what karen had mentioned okay having a having a dedicated person there to help us summarize and figure out the resources and the allocations that are needed there i think is is is crucial uh and shows a serious step and and what the what what's trying to be accomplished and there are other resources that we can look at to get things like cuts and things like tents and that that are um there are other government websites that you can go to to get these these items for free um and i think that having a dedicated person there that can help identify and validate the things that that are being seen and done on ground and trying to figure out what what the next steps are plays a huge role into into to working towards that dignity and that that respect and that help for for people who are out there and suffering great thank you um i just uh to check is there any other member of the public that would like to speak on this topic and karen you're not seeing anyone okay um jack did you want to make a motion i move that the city issue the request for proposals as has been presented to us tonight with the due date to be determined by the manager or assistant city manager in consultation with the housing task force homelessness okay so it's uh there's been a motion in a second um any further discussion uh okay all in favor please say aye and opposed okay so that passes um thank you uh ken and uh karen and all the members of the homelessness task force thanks for all your work on this and um looking forward to getting their responses back and then actually getting to hire someone uh bill before we go um we'd like to have gary gordon from washington county mental health introduce susan to all of us oh yeah go ahead good afternoon everybody i am gary gordon i'm the coordinator of emergency services for washington county mental health and i have with me susan lamere who is our um police social worker um she comes us from uh greenfield massachusetts she has a long extensive history of of service in our human services and mental health including christmas work i'm working on psychiatric units working with our courts and our correctional facilities and we're excited to have her here she has a huge learning curve of course because we we do things a little differently in the north country but uh she seems up to the task this is her first full job full week on the job last week she says most of the time um most of her time with me trying to give her training up to speed on what how we do things here in vermont um but she seems to be uh adapting pretty quickly um i've only heard good things about her from the people who've encountered us so far um and like i said again we're excited to have her um we've been trying to do this for a long time our chief fakers was our was proponent of this um so was chief bombardier we've had inquiries from the local state police um our friends to the south and hcrs have been doing this for several years now and they actually have seven seven clinicians embedded uh with various police departments down um in their area i mean we're hearing good news about them saying insane augments with the northwestern counseling services they have an embedded work up there we're hearing great things about so we're really hoping that we can make an impact by having an embedded worker here to assist our law enforcement in their interactions with with the populations of both cities hi everyone i'm very very honored and privileged and happy to be here and thanks for having me be part of this meeting tonight absolutely thank you thank you uh thank you so much for being here and we're so delighted that you're here um so looking forward to working with you great yeah um all right great so the next item is uh the design review uh public hearings and so i think we're gonna take this one at a time uh if that makes sense because there's two there's um correct me if i'm wrong but there's supposed to be two public hearings related to this is that right correct one public hearing though there are two topics we can split them it's probably the easiest way to manage them yeah okay so the first one so i'm gonna open the public hearing on the which one which is this one this is the changes to the historic preservation or not historic preservation what am i saying you know what i'm trying to say design review thank you all right so the changes to design review uh districts um so there's the opening that public hearing uh mike do you want to say anything further about this i gave everybody um yes good evening mike miller planning director um so i gave everyone a summary at the last meeting i don't know if you want me to spend the time to go through that presentation again um more than happy to uh if you guys are comfortable um and want to ask questions or get public comments um i'll leave it up to you which way you want me to try to move forward on that i don't necessarily need an additional um presentation um what other thoughts from the council on that or from the public i suppose um jack go ahead because this is the first public hearing i don't think it needs to be extensive but i think it might be useful to get an overview i think that's probably a good idea um yeah so i'll turn it back over to you mike all right um so i don't know if i need to get a share screen to put the presentation up again otherwise i can just run through the the the share screen now mike okay let me see if i need to so it didn't come up on my end is can you guys see that on the screen now no no okay um because i'm not getting the shared screen should be at the bottom it's the group uh okay miss one button there we go all right so um uh just real quick um what we're going to concentrate really uh for this the first two uh looking at the design rules a quick history and review of the proposed rules and um separately and related to this there's also the review of the boundary changes um we the planning commission and drc looked at both of these so this goes back all the way to 2017 uh when the uh the planning commission was working on the zoning and they had put together an entire uh set of zoning to revise the design rules it went to public hearing and uh it didn't receive a lot of um enough positive responses for the planning commission to move those forward so they felt the best action would be to work with the historic preservation commission to develop some new rules um and so those went to historic preservation in 2017 um and they reviewed a number of practices um other regulations in vermont towns um the rehabilitation standards from the national park service uh they hired a consultant and that it it should be noted that a lot of the planning commission historic planning commission members are full-time professionals in the field and so we use a lot of their experience as well to help guide the drafting of these rules and the goals were really these six overall objectives that they picked that identified at the start um one was to improve the predictability and consistency of the applications um and to improve the defense ability of decisions these kind of go hand in hand uh there were some court decisions our design review rules have been in effect since probably 1970s or 80s um and a lot of court decisions have come through and some important ones that really require our rules to have more guidance to it so applicants have more of an understanding or an expectation of whether or not they can be approved and it would help the people reviewing applications to understand um whether whether project meets or doesn't meet a requirement so um those are really the two primary drivers of this was trying to make sure that we had something that was legally defensible um and then they talked about a number of technical pieces like whether we should be a historic review district and not a design review district and they decided to continue to be a design review district and we'll go into all the reasons why but there's some good reasons why we maintained a design review um we also um in order to meet our uh certified local government requirements which Montpelier is one of uh a CLG community in the state uh we had to uh be consistent with at least the National Park Service Rehabilitation Standards so that was what was uh selected we also uh and this was a follow-through from the 2018 zoning we wanted to be more flexible with our rules and have more clear exemptions and opportunities for administrative review this has been a very successful um feature of the current zoning um where rather than really being very specific about things we try to be a little bit more flexible to allow for better better design and better projects and um and and having administrative requirements means simpler straightforward projects don't need to go through a long process so both of these have been very uh successful uh they wanted to continue that here in the drafting and design review um and then they wanted to establish a transparent review guidelines and this is the only thing that hasn't been done yet and the reason why they haven't developed the guideline book is it's going to be a long um you know they're going to get grants um a longer process with a much more detailed guide it'll really help applicants a lot but they didn't want to spend the money developing the guide if the city council changed some of the rules so we really kind of need to wait till the rules are adopted and then we will develop the guidelines um the core changes as i mentioned last time were really uh rather than having one set of rules that applies to all projects they divided it into one set of rules that apply to alterations in addition to historic buildings and then another set of rules that apply to projects that go all and so that was one key distinction and then um the application process was adjusted in administrative officer approvals were added you know consistent with what the goals were and they increased exemptions from design review and clarified what are called the statutory exemptions um which are in in state law which which were really unclear in the current rules um so after design review put that together they had some public hearings they gave their public um they gave those documents to the planning commission and the planning commission was tasked with adjusting the boundaries um the current boundary that is in our design overlay district is really arbitrary it doesn't follow any national register district historic district zoning boundaries it's very arbitrary and our goal was to have a boundary which had some justification so some basic rules um that um because of programs everything in the in the designated downtown must be in the um design overlay district that's part of that program's requirements um under state law the capital complex cannot be in the design review uh and the planning commission decided they would match them to neighborhood boundaries to the best that they could and they had to make some exceptions um but the focus was really on the downtown's in the gateways and where we ended up um mostly the same as today we didn't make a lot of drastic changes you'll see changes you'll see changes mostly at the edges we did keep uh the VCF VCFA parcel in but we removed the CCV parcel out on elm street that that property for some reason was just a singular property that was in design review um that one was removed national life stayed in but the boundaries were cleaned up to match the parcel lines um we added the north street of berry out to granite street um that actually helps to clean up an issue we have with the designated downtown boundary uh we added in downing street uh we added in the rest of crossroads neighborhood um now that's kind of gasoline alley so that's um currently if you were at um on burlin on um route two so you've got burlin and uh memorial and main street northfield street some of those properties are in design review but only um a couple of them so cumberland farms and dunkin donuts are not in design review but the gas stations that are closer to the intersection are and what we did was figured um all of those should be in design review um just for consistency sake out at redstone we added in a few properties and three parcels on terrace street will be rezoned as a part of this um they're currently res six thousand they'll be changed to red nine thousand and will be part of the neighborhood out on terrace street um and there's a whole reason for that um but really it comes down to the fact that those are not historic they're not in the historic district and those were the only three properties in the redstone north neighborhood that were not consistent and those property owners have all been notified and they've all agreed that they want to be moved into the terrace street neighborhood um and we'll address the pioneer street when we get there so i will stop sharing for now and uh see if you have any questions or if you were the public any questions from either the public or council uh eric i see you down there i think you're muted that's better huh yeah uh i'm eric ylbertson i am chair of the historic preservation commission and sit on design review and i want to thank the council for taking this up we've been at it for three years and uh i'm here to answer any questions uh that anybody might have uh go ahead jan sure uh first question i had actually eric um if you could address so some of the preservation standards uh mike talked about last time and i just want to make sure that that um i'm understanding them as well as the the public which is that you've adopted sort of the mid-level uh preservation standards so that that's right the standards for rehabilitation i think that uh probably um almost all the projects that designer do sees are that are re that are involved in historic building are rehabilitation and they're they're pretty flexible standards if you go into the standards for restoration uh they're very rigid and we wanted this to be flexible enough that people could do reasonable things with their buildings and how how are these new standards likely to be different than sort of the prior standards that we use that we've used before in the past i i i thought about that i don't think there'll be much difference i mean the good thing about these standards is they're nationally accepted standards there's information and publications that can be used uh so i i think they're probably the easiest thing to do and a very defensible thing to do so we don't have to consult the 1975 version of the cityscape anymore that's correct that was that was very good but my copy was a getting a little shop or yes it's a collector's item now um yeah so i i guess the only other comment i would add is uh i want to thank you and and meredith and mike for these changes i think i think they make sense you know they seem to bring they seem to cure a lot of the inconsistencies that the old design control district had as far as standards go as far as what was in the district and what was out and i guess the only the only third question the final thing i would ask is it you know was was there a push at all to change to separate out the design district from the historic district or was that a general consensus to keep it as a design we had discussions about it but i i don't think there was much interest in doing that because it's really a community that we're looking at not just historic buildings so okay all right well thanks i i think this is great this is a really uh a lot of work and it shows and i think it makes a better system than what we have now we wouldn't have done it without the staff at the city i can see meredith it's just been great i can't remember all the names of people before her but they're all very helpful and mike's been very helpful she's pushed them out of your mind my memory for names is not what it used to be it was never very good uh donna uh but eric your memory for buildings is still strong and you a very important presence to add to our staff i'm so impressed that we can keep protecting the character of our community and yet still be more transparent and clear and rational about what we're requiring people to do so i appreciate the changes and salute all of you that have been involved thank you thanks a lot i think design review has made a tremendous difference in the way montelier looks over the last 40 years and uh we wanted to continue that keep montelier montelier right great uh any further comments from either the council or the public okay um can't read anyone i don't think so okay um all right so i am going to uh close the public hearing and this is an item i think that we need to have a second public hearing on if i'm not mistaken um so do we need a motion to um put this on the future agenda yeah i don't know if we need a second hearing okay this is one of the odd ones um the charter talks about ones that are adopted through um chapter 59 70 full quote 59 60 which is um different than chapter 117 so it's never been clear as to whether or not we follow the first or the other um but typically in the past we've had one but if we want to have a second one just to get more public input i'm more than happy to come back in a couple weeks uh well based on the public outcry here um i think we could probably probably just go with the one is my sense uh dan and don okay i i'd support the one but just to be clear we're bifurcating the design review components and separate from the pioneer yes that's the next thing yeah yeah no i i'm perfectly comfortable having one especially given the fact that you know while this is technically just one hearing we have now given it two opportunities for people to give feedback and um it seems to be largely consensus and i think that's a tribute to the work that the planning department and and eric and others did to um to create this yeah great um donna well i was actually going to make a motion to approve the proposed uh proposed changes to the design review overlay district is that the right terms mike are we in the late title here yes the the overlay district and the map and the map okay okay is there a second second uh okay it's mostly a second i said loren go ahead you're muted you're muted by mute this is super nitpicky i thought we were having a second hearing so i was just going to email it looks like on page um it was page 51 of the packet for tonight or it's um chapter 4 30 um page 4 dash 9 at the very top um 4301 a it says the administrative officer and you crossed out shell refer all and it says review any applications i think it's only to the shell um i can just email that to gamron that's the easiest way but before we approve it it makes no sense with that there's just a missing word but good catch i don't send that over and uh so uh donna and dan uh you're okay with adding that to your um motion okay without understanding yeah don't go ahead donna but i'll mute myself i thought you could always do grammar as long as it didn't change the essence so i'm glad we caught it but yes totally acceptable okay uh so motion in a second um on favor please say aye aye and opposed okay so that passes um thank you very much yeah thank you eric and um marith and mike and everyone who uh i'll make that happen spend um a long time coming so it'll be great all right so we have another um um uh public hearing to do uh around uh zoning changes for uh the river street uh pioneer street area uh so i'm gonna officially open a public hearing on that and for this again since this is our first public hearing on it i think probably makes sense again to um have you do a little overview of it mike if that's okay with you all right so i'm gonna i can share screen again for a quick second i'm just gonna put the map up because i think that'll be the easiest way to talk about this you should have permission to do that now oh god i believe it is this guy let me see if i can so this is probably not the the clearest map for everybody to understand what's going on but this line here is pioneer street this space going through here is the winooski river and this is uh river street that's heading out so uh we've got the laser wash car wash here um flag works is here vfw so um hopefully that gives you a little bit of an idea of uh what part of the city we're talking about and what we have uh this is so the colors this area here is the residential um 1500 no residential 3000 which is residential these are some short little hill neighborhoods up in here this orangey color is the riverfront district this is the rural parts of sapiens pasture um and this is eastern gateway out towards the roundabout so um those are the different zoning districts and the parcel we're really talking about tonight is um a parcel that actually connects across the railroad tracks this small thin line cutting through here is a railroad um and what we have here is the trading post and a vacant parking lot and they also own this larger parcel that kind of goes out here that has a number of self-store units uh the the uh baronica growler um some commercial buildings here um and so hopefully everyone's got a sense of really about the area we're talking about and what the proposal was was they have this vacant land here uh the barrets and they wanted to go and make a proposal and um they didn't realize that in 2018 that the zoning had changed on their property and so they were no longer going to be allowed to have self-store units it becomes a non-conforming use and most of their buildings and most of their uses also became non-conforming so they were kind of caught a little bit by surprise and asked the planning commission if they could go and change their zoning so that they could be eastern gateway the purple that's down here um and in that way uh the most of the uses that are on their property would become conforming the the structures may not be conforming because we now have new design requirements um even outside of the design review district we do have design requirements for new structures um but the the laser wash is non-conforming and the uses in here are non-conforming so they asked if we would um take another look at the planning commission would take another look at rezoning this area to match the eastern gateway um eastern or the yeah eastern gateway in its description the eastern gateway tends to be more auto centric um and um this part part of the argument for this is part of this this side of this street does not have sidewalks it's not really pedestrian accessible as much as as other places as you get into more of these areas um so that was a little bit of the sense was um that could be one one way um as this has been a property that's been owned by the family for a long time one way we could help accommodate that the planning commission looked at three different options um the initial proposal was to also rezone the self-store units that are already built uh the planning commission opted not to they said no we don't want that to be rezone we'll just look at these pieces here um that are on the street um and they chose the option to rezone this to eastern gateway but um not not full-throated endorsement but they felt this was they they wanted to help them out and this was what they kind of settled on um they did review other options such as putting um allowing self-store units into the riverfront district was another option that was explored so um i guess that's probably where i can leave it at this point there were um a number of options i don't know if brook is here to answer questions on behalf of the the barrett's stop sharing um and i can answer any questions that you had um mic can i ask you a question about the eastern gateway district just for clarity is housing allowed in the eastern gateway district uh yes but not to the i was hoping i had that right in front of me and i don't um have the zoning right in front of me there is um i believe single and two family but multifamily is not allowed in eastern gateway um and maybe meredith looks like meredith has the answer to that right um so uh meredith krandall zoning administrator um in eastern gateway actually all residential uses are allowed but they're all conditional so higher tier review requirements thank you um sorry i probably should not have jumped right in there with questions i i do want to give um is that brook uh dingledine and uh is that jim barrett do you would you like to address the council yes thank you very much good evening um my name is brook dingledine can you hear me okay with my mask on yes okay great um i'm with the i'm with the berry law firm and i'm here with jim barrett and also kelly barrett of barrett enterprises and barrett enterprises is a local business in montpelier that's actually a family owned business that's been in um been around for over a hundred years and during that time they've paid a lot of taxes and employed a lot of people and they have made a real success of the pioneer street parcel that they acquired in 1970 at that point in time um just to give you a little background on the history of this parcel long long ago in the eight in the uh early 19th century and before it was a tannery and then there was a dam built on the river and the what is now the barrett parcel was used to generate power through that um through the hydro dam in the area it then turned into a coal fired power plant in the early 19th century and eventually converted over to an oil fired power plant that jam pee owned which um in 1971 the barrett stood over the property it had contamination on it there were concrete bunkers on the property um that had to be dynamited and people were betting whether or not they could actually break them up and remove them from the property uh they've spent massive amounts of money redeveloping this property since the 1970s they paid there was these six concrete bunkers that had to be dynamited took over a hundred thousand dollars in the 1970s to remove there was a massive 80 000 gallon underground storage tank holding oil for all this oil fired plant that existed there to generate the electricity that had to be pumped and filled with concrete um so these folks are are very connected to this land they've spent decades redeveloping it cleaning it up doing environmental assessments and they have always been in the storage business since the 70s and in the 1980s began building self-storage units at this location in other areas around central bramon they run a really nice operation they have many people and businesses in the area that appreciate the location and the convenience including people that come on a daily basis to get their supplies and equipment and material for their plumbing businesses electricians law firms with all sorts of um files um dentists wet washington county mental health um many nursing homes in the area local police personnel restaurants etc this is a really important business and in fact they're at 100 capacity and have a waiting list because of that proximity to people's homes where they don't have garages and that kind of thing so in the 1980s the first mid-1980s the first self-storage unit went up when that became an industry and there are a total of 12 buildings on the barrett property and nine of them are the self-storage unit buildings which are all now out of compliance now what does that really mean well probably nothing because they will continue to maintain them into the future and have plans to do that for the the long term so they would may remain um but they're and the and the barrett's found out about the change in zoning through happenstance they had no idea that their parcel was getting rezoned in 1918 so this was a surprise when they went into the zoning administrator to do the last two buildings in the area that is actually it's the parking lot area that's above the 18 000 gallon storage type that was filled with concrete and they found out well you can't do this anymore you've been zoned out of this is no longer a use so that's how they came upon this information they didn't realize that was going on or would have come to say gee this is an unintended consequence the other the other portion there's another parcel involved in this request as well and that's the laser wash parcel and those folks have expressed concern because for example now that they're a non-compliant structure they can't put vacuum cleaners out in the parking lot area where they wanted to because there's a local need for that but that would be an expansion of a non-conforming use and they wouldn't be allowed to do that so because 10 of the 13 structures on these two parcels are now in non-compliance and the fact that the last portion of the development that the barrett's were planning to now can't be done without them realizing that that was the situation um we we went to the planning commission we worked with mike miller um he was terrific in trying to help fashion some options for the planning commission and um what they ultimately decided on was well the strip in between the railroad trucks and the actual road um if that could read if that could be the eastern gateway just expanded and continue the extension of that from the east into the along the road and then the portion behind the railroad tracks between the railroad tracks and the river could remain riverfront and that would assist the barrett's in completing their plans um laser wash could continue to operate and have a small expansion for their desires as well while still honoring the purpose and the intent of what the change in zoning was designed to um provide for in the future which is um making an area more accessible to uh pedestrian or access to the river that kind of thing yeah the reality of it is if we if the zoning doesn't change it's it's not going to um cause any in any short term time frame there's not going to be a housing unit put up the merits are not in that business and this is a hole in their in their property now um that they have finally been able to business wise um be able to develop and it completes the um you know what they wanted to do with the property now this isn't about them specifically and what I would ask you to think about and if you drive that area and you know it at all if you look at that map that might put up on the thing first of all eastern gateways across the road from at least the eastern portion of the barrett property and if you drive that area it's a guardrail with an enormous amount of um trees shrubbery that kind of thing because there's a real steep drop off and there is no place to walk in that area on route two on that side because of the guardrail and it's a very steep drop off then to the barrett property and that continues for quite some time and the only access to the property is through the entrance where the trading when you get to the trading post actual building um or of course you could enter any other side of railroad tracks from plain ear street and then you would be able to access that eastern portion of the barrett property but there you know it wouldn't change anything in terms of um alteration at the road because there is no access to any of those lands so mr barrett is here and he's um happy to answer any questions about this um is there anything that you want to highlight for them um it just invested a great deal of money time thought and and tlc on this property and now the other thing I should point out is eastern gateway requires them to um go through some uh aesthetic and buffering kinds of issues they're happy to do so um they're not asking for a reversion to the original zoning that they had prior to 2018 um and they're more than happy to comply to make this area look nice and keep this business a thriving business in central gormona right well thank you um so from here I know we had a little bit of conversation about this uh last time and at that point I had said you know I have some hesitation around all this but um I just want to I mean I'm I want to say that uh you know I'm certainly open to this and want to want to think through it um I would like to think through it a little more uh but I want to check with the council if you all are feeling um clear uh you know you want to move forward with this or um clear that you don't that would be good to know uh if if it seems like it's going to be relatively controversial then I I think it's okay to say let's um let's let's talk about this some more let's think about it some more and um put it on a further agenda uh time and in the future if we're not uh if we're not ready to approve it tonight um so anyway I just want to put that out there as an option um thoughts uh Jay go ahead um yeah and thank you and um thank you to the Barrett family and and to all they've put into that land that I think I shared the sentiment that I think that it this deserves a little more time and attention and um conversation and do you think that um given the redevelopment on the other side of the river and the multi-use path that's has been built out there um and the potential for connecting folks to the river and connecting that space to downtown um and uh seeing a different type of future in the development of that space I think it I think it warrants additional conversation so I don't know that I'm ready to move forward with a decision tonight thanks thank you um other thoughts Dan and then Donna um well you know I I I think that the the Barrett's point is is well taken which is um it's you know they've largely developed the area and anytime you make what's developed already in the area a non-conforming use I think that creates problems because you have that inconsistent uh you know you can't expand you can't use the land as as it's really already been been used um I think Jay's point is a good one and I do see I I agree as well that this is in the long term um I think this is one of the areas that we as a city really need to be looking at to think about as Savins is developed as the multi-use uh path is continued to be improved and utilized um you know this is in some ways another sort of downtown hub type center and so today's uses are not necessarily going to be yeah I think there's going to be uh future planning about that but I think that's really long-term thinking I think that's over the long course of you know we the planning commission needs to go back needs to look um and we need to see how these lands develop but at least at this time I don't see um I guess I I don't see necessarily a need to mull it over much more I think um you know I think the Barrett's use of this is is the established use and and something that doesn't allow that use I think creates more problems in the short term um and that what we're really looking at is long-term thinking about this area and it's not just the Barrett's property it's the entire that entire intersection where the pioneer street bridge and route to meet because I I really do think there's a lot of potential there but I think that's that's long term and that's something we need to support and thinking about for the um for the future that's that's just my thought thank you Donna well I'm not sure Dan by the time you've finished I wasn't sure whether you'd vote yes or no but uh part of me agrees with both of you and as much as thanks to Brooke all your statements and background was very helpful to me the difference I guess I perceive is that this section is up on a hill it's not down by the shared use path it's not even immediately except for the backside right against the river and I do respect how much they've maintained and helped this economic growth here but I also feel like going into the east what do you call Eastgate would have them add some beautification that they don't have now and I really would like that I'd like to support how they're using it get them out of being out of compliance and help it to be a more beautiful uh that it might be indeed the exception dealing at the fact that it is up on this sort of steep area right against the roadway so I would be prepared to vote tonight but I can certainly wait till the next meeting also Jack I'm with uh with Donna I at our last meeting we heard this presentation and what I said was well you know I really should get out there and walk the grounds and get a good sense of what it's like and I did not do that before tonight's meeting but I I also thought that that Mike's presentation uh with the map tonight was was really very very informative and helpful and so I don't want to make my fellow counselors rush to a decision if uh if they're not ready but I personally am ready and I would support it great thank you any other thoughts from council um any thoughts from the public and uh Brooke or Jim if you have anything you want to add to it that's okay too um oh uh Bill go ahead yeah I meant to get in and then you guys got started so I just wanted to weigh in from my perspective and again you all can decide what you want to do but uh as I see it as I understand the proposal before you uh is is except you know works for the Barrett's the landowners and you know with regard to future use uh if it were to convert to commercial or housing or whatever um you know essentially you heard the testimony I mean the Barrett family is really interested in doing that not not that they don't like the idea but that's not what they do so someone's gonna have to buy it and I think if someone was proposing to buy this property from the Barrett's and propose a major proposal you know for the long run it met our long term you know vision council could certainly consider rezoning it I'd also say that and and if that were the case the addition of a couple more storage units were a couple of um vacuum cleaners isn't going to make it particularly more expensive to redevelop it's you know it's not like you're taking down brand new buildings with water and sewer and all these kind of things and you storage units I think I don't even think you have water and sewer right they're just a little storage with a slab underneath so I I think you're not necessarily defeating your future vision here especially with the hybrid that the planning commission has come up with and um and then and we're not holding up to you know whether you do it now or you want to take more time I certainly would um stand to support and urge you to support uh the planning commission compromise and I think works for the field yeah Ian go ahead yeah I I guess I just add on top of that I just to be clear from Donna's statement I'm fully in her and Jack's camp um you know if you look through the uses it on the chart in the zoning you know the riverfront and the eastern gateway are pretty much the same um with some key exceptions the key one being the the storage units um and so I I don't feel like this is really a real this is opening something drastic and I I would share I think Bill put it more succinctly what I was grasping for in my comments which is that you know I think a lot of our concerns are thinking in this long term but nothing here is going to prevent us from thinking about that in the long term and you know a lot of our long term thinking about this and or that the planning commission's long term thinking is going to depend on on things that haven't happened yet and so limiting the current use or ignoring the current use for um some future prospect I don't think makes sense um given that this can can continue to be used in a manner that's been consistently that it's been consistently used for you know as as Brooke testified to or stated about 40 years so um I just um oh Jack go ahead just very quickly I know that everybody I talk to pretty much hates self-storage units but every time one gets built they get filled up clearly that our society for whatever reason has decided there's a value to doing them and I think this is a sensible place for them any other thoughts Lauren or Connor if not that's okay I think I could vote tonight sorry say again I think I could vote tonight okay you know something that I that I think is helpful for me in thinking about this is that housing continues to be a at least a conditional use for the eastern gateway and so if you know if the hope is that someday there's either housing or something like that in that area that that's this is not preventing that um I'm correct in saying that right Mike yeah okay um so um with that in mind um Lauren anything you want to add if not that's okay no I mean I think I share the general sense you know having heard more tonight it was really helpful um from from Brooke's presentation and the other comments so um I think I'm prepared to vote too also hopeful that you know the longer term vision we keep keep working towards but it sounds like you know we can move forward with this for now and it doesn't seem like a huge change um I guess my only question is it sounds like the planning commission were torn like is there something we're we're some perspective that hasn't been brought up that you know Mike or anyone like what what was making this a hard decision on their part if we're it's being presented to us is pretty straightforward and not really that big a deal well I think from the planning commission's perspective they they were first presented with a larger change um so they had a lot of working around to kind of bring it back to let's just look at the minimum that would be necessary to to remedy the situation the one section next to the river is already built out so we can you know we don't have to rezone that so that was took a lot of conversation to bring that back and then they also you know they're they're you know much more versed on the zoning and took a number of avenues of possible other changes of um changing in Justin and Neighborhood in its zoning district to allow just that use and that would fix it for the Barrett's but they wouldn't fix it for the the car wash and so they they went through on a number of those points and and um the the the exact case that Jay made was one of the the big pieces that they worked and had a lot of question on which was you know we just built the bike path you know the Barrett's property is just on the other side of the river and that was kind of where they drew the line and said no we shouldn't rezone the northern piece that's next to the river we should leave that as riverfront yes everything will be non-conforming but at the same time those are all successful and we don't need to make those changes and so that was that was where they really went around and I think in their case they the planning commission always wanted to make changes to help they just had a couple of meetings where there were a few a few planning commission members short so they had to get four votes and they had three three votes for one and three three votes for the other and then um had to go to another meeting um just because you know three of them preferred uh changing the the zoning uses while three of them felt they would rather change the zoning district so um I think it was just a difference of way the way of getting there and when they had the second meeting we had some people who weren't at the first meeting at the second meeting and they were able to pass and get that approved thank you that's helpful yeah okay well is there anyone who'd like to make a motion uh Dan sure I'll make a motion that we approve the change in zoning districts along 186 um sorry let me call this up um on river street 186 river street uh from riverfront zoning district to eastern gateway district as proposed all second I just want to clarify it's more than just 186 because it's also the property next to it sure the parcels I can amend my my motion to the the parcels um as indicated on the map in proximity to 186 river street and you're you're cool with that right Conner all good okay um okay um further discussion and this includes the public if there's anyone from the public who would like to weigh in about this can I bring anybody okay I'm not seeing you I'm sorry that's okay I can also read your lips okay so any further discussion right all in favor please say aye aye aye and opposed opposed okay so um the motion carries and oh wait because I think we have to go through roll call yeah um right I'm just going to go through the order in which you appear on my screen uh Dan hi Conner hi Donna hi jack hi Lauren hi and jay composed okay uh so the motion carries and um thank you everybody um for your thoughtfulness about this and uh yeah thanks for the to the planning commission and and uh uh broken gym so thank you very much folks okay um so it is 8 30 um I think we might need a quick break um so let's see we've got up next is the uh temporary um uh parking ordinance public hearing and then uh community policing discussion um I reversed the order of those two uh is my guess so well uh how do you feel about do you need five minutes 10 minutes what do you think 10 oh I'm seeing 10 um all right so I'll see you back here at 8 40 and we'll pick it up with the community policing from there right thanks community policing discussion um yeah oh Bill are you sure yeah I was I was gonna say just to ask the other thing but nobody's here for it so that was my question if anybody was here for it then you know it's easy we could just do it but I think it's really fair to do this one um first so um all right so just so everybody knows how this conversation will be structured uh we are gonna first hear from our police chief and about his work and investigation that he's done about the police department and then from there we will go directly to public comment and then and again you know everybody is welcome to participate again say your name and where you live and try to keep your comments in two minutes that'd be great and then um and then the the council will reflect on what they've heard so we'll go from there uh so uh I'm going to turn things over to Chief Pete welcome thank you ma'am good evening mayor good evening uh distinguished members of the council uh city manager assistant city manager um I've had the the privilege um to come here to Montpelier and um to join this this this this community and and I've seen firsthand on what makes it special and uh and I can tell you that um I believe you have and I know you have a department of professionals who are committed to doing the best that they can in serving their community and and and I I've given um eight slides to uh the camera has them I think we're probably going to go with those really quickly but um they're they're based in in part well they're based entirely on the assessment that I did and I looked at it very impartially and I came in in just full disclosure I've been to a lot of police agencies and organizations and you're wondering okay is this just um is this just a show is this or is it really the real thing and and I walked away believing it is the real thing and knowing that it's the real thing I looked for certain indicators I looked for things to to see if there's um there's an exclusion it's just one thing to have the right policies it's one thing to say that we have benchmark policies that we're doing with per for the IACP is telling us to do and it's an entire another thing to have a culture that believes in those policies and implements those policies and I can tell you that the Montpelier Police Department has that culture it's not just a well this is what we're supposed to do um this is what we do and this is what we expect from each other um so culture is what enforces and makes policies work not just in Montpelier but I think in any organization um out there that that human bodies are part of I've looked for early warning indicators things that would lead to or suggest that there is a detached culture um that would rob from community policing practices from models and that would contribute to an us versus the mindset I can tell you I did not see that um it was not over um so if I may ask if Cameron could put those slides on the screen or thank you ma'am so the the initial findings um a review of and statistical data uh that's you know the state police just released out what they were seeing with their traffic stops so if you um if law enforcement stops someone here in the state you can either give them a warning you can give them a ticket you could even look at uh if there's an arrest system from that interaction or even if you search the vehicle all those data points um we're we're available here in Montpelier and we're working to put those on the on the website uh to to bring more transparency and accountability um but in the reviewing of that initial data uh shows that there's no I have no impression there's no indications of targeting um to people especially uh disadvantaged populations people of color socioeconomic status anything um the current policies and practices that the department has had for a long time it's not like a hey we better get our act together uh the led two years ago we started doing everything correct no there's a consistency of policies and practices that are rooted in in best practice models uh as I mentioned before about the culture that is strong and professional and that um community concerns primarily revolved around anything of like the criminal nexus you go to certain places and people say that I'm concerned about drugs I'm concerned about um uh the opioid epidemic I'm concerned about a lot of robberies happening around schools I didn't get any of that the the criminal compliance base thing that I heard the most was people are speeding too much and we need to do something about it um so uh so that was positive to me as well um that this community to my my hats off to the community for that um because the community can only allow itself to be policed please have to have that legitimacy to do that so that's that's a that's a reflection uh of the culture of the community and then there were those community concerns that related to the institutional culture of law enforcement which I think everyone agrees needs work um but so so those conversations kind of tilted towards what does MPD do to hold itself accountable and transparent to the community that it serves and if I may ask for the thank you ma'am so um of the the community discussion topics the most prevalent were um there is an overwhelming uh desire to see officers in the best of times and not just in the worst of times so for high visibility foot patrols positive interactions more positive interactions that officers are having not just you know we only see you when there's a call for service or um when we do see you in your car you don't have that much time to stop and talk to us and and there there are those efforts officers are taking those efforts but their administrative functions that are keeping them from being able to be more proactive in their community uh in police immersion efforts um there is of course there was concern about the increase in the homeless population and MPD's role and how we're going to help to address that situation I think the Vermont Digger had a recent article that said uh I think like 13 or 14 percent of the state's homeless population is here in Washington County so that's a big concern of the community as well the school resource officer is also a big concern a lot of folks saying that because of national models they think that police officers are are are traumatizing towards children um but um I what what the peculiar police department is doing it's doing right and it's doing and what it does do it's it doesn't do what other departments do it has accomplished and succeed and excel at what other departments want to be so I'll say that with the SRO program again then that we've had the national conversations of racial systemic violence police brutality the roles of policing um questions were are there others are there service other services or other organizations that can can do those various calls of service um better than than police officers and I wholeheartedly agree to that um and then there's a mental health uh component with related calls to for police services and again um I'm grateful that Gary Gordon and Susan are on the line and they're going to go probably more into depth uh and then can answer some other questions as it regards to um a crisis intervention so the six pillars of 21st century policing are what what I went at and looked through this is the benchmark this is widely um this is what's accepted is the golden standard um what police departments should be doing and this stems back from um uh panels of experts of and who discuss what makes a department successful and again I'm not sure if most people know this but Tony Fakas played a part in that Tony Fakas was down there at the White House talking about what policing should look like which also lends itself to the fact that the Montpelier police department has been recognized as a department that's doing it correctly and what are you doing that you can broadcast out to other departments and agencies so they can mirror the relationship that you have with your community so I think that's a hats off to the men and women and to the city um for that accomplishment so um one of the the first gentleman I met with Ari he it was a great conversation and um he it stuck with me he said I want you to drink bigger what do you think about how these things work so he introduced me to the first paradigm here on the left uh that talks about um and I hope I'm doing it justice and I'm recalling it correctly but talked about like the personal the cultural and structural influences that that can affect organizations that can affect beliefs and that brought me over to um Dr. Joseph Neuase belief transformation cycle so this is he's part of this group uh well they founded the group with the systemic diversity and inclusion group and it's talking about how do you transform belief systems because we're all all of our experiences whether they're taught or whether they're experienced um this is how we come into that fold so how do we disrupt that cycle so policing to me is nothing but symptomatic of of society at large um what happens in the society happens in microorganisms to include teaching policing um health care politics you name it it's all there so what can the Montpelier police department do that's what we have control over to disrupt this cycle to make sure that as we're policing we're aware of anything internally that will that will not allow us or that would reduce the amount of service that we're giving to anyone within our community and we want to make sure that we have that emotional intelligence about ourselves to to realize this and to make sure that we see everybody the same way and and we in our services based in on that and again I want to emphasize that I have not seen that within the within the department but I think this is we don't want to say stagnant we want to move forward so this is so with these paradigms in mind we want to base um strategic goals that are that are founded in how do we make sure that we we emphasize ways to to remind each other that we're all human and we all have the same things the same goals wants desires thoughts in common so that's what the strategic plans will be based in so again officers should not be doing the work of of other places we're not claiming to be social workers we're not claiming to be doctors but yet we it's incumbent upon us to do everything we can to provide the best possible service out there so we need to be trained in things like first aid we need to be trained in crisis de-escalation um because we're looking towards uh peaceful ways to resolve conflicts but we have to be conscious of mission creep so we can't that's one of the things that's gotten us into this problem in the first place that officers can't be expected to be uh school counselors they have another intricate role to play in the school system for example but um so we have to be cognizant of that mission mission creep thing which happens everywhere um but every responsibility every organizational structure out there is essential and it plays a vital role and it neither should be competing with one another all of us should be working with each other for a common goal the department has been doing that and as i'm here we will continue to do that and we will ramp it up to the highest level we possibly can this slide talks about the the strategic goals that came out of the 17 uh page assessment um and i'm based because of the urgency of the situation i think that we need to seize on this moment and we need to act on this moment and those who are serious about um uh making institutional change to our to our profession are going to be involved in those conversations and their input's going to be heard and it's going to be valued um so we've uh i've put in strategic goals based on those uh six pillars of 21st century policing the first of which i think um is the most important would be to implement a body worn camera program now that comes with a lot of other things uh but the primarily among them being a funding and i'm extremely cognizant of um budget limitations prior to coven and especially with because what we're dealing with now so we're going to this is something that we want to make sure that we're responsible stewards so i'm going to go out there and look for those resources to bring these here um uh for this department and if i can uh we've also there was also a bj grant that i just applied for that just closed out last week for um if we get it it would allow us to have a four-year um to pay for four years worth of having a body worn camera program system here so and looking at uh that so that the philosophy that the paradigms that i spoke of before this is where um where i think that it would come into play so one of uh the pillars calls for a robust interaction with policing now um oversight is done uh by there's already civilian oversight there's my boss there's both of my bosses and there are elected officials who are tasked and how accountable to um to oversight for this department so i think that it's it's better to have um a strategic advisory board of community members who are selected by a community that can provide our department with advice input and and help us to generate ideas on how we can meet our community police and strategic goals a lot of times you can't see the forest when you're inside the trees i can look at things from a police standpoint all day i've got a mental health background as well but i don't do this every day so i i gotta make sure i'm catching everything that's being that's this that we're seeing and what we're supposed to be doing so that we do this with a partnership so this group i think would just brainstorm ways to help us improve systemic diversity um make sure that we're maintaining socioeconomic equality uh inclusion exposure and um with the goal of true impartiality for policing so these would be things like um we want to talk about implicit bias training well how do we go out into the community are there experts within Montpelier that can help us do this or do we go to the anti-defamation league to get this training how do we bring it back are there volunteers in the community that can help us do this all the way to things like we understand that um it's a male dominated career field how do you attract women to come into this profession how do you attract people of color to come into this profession um if we have uh if we have partnerships with group like the rainbow coalition and NAACP and women in law enforcement we can can tap into those resources to say hey come to our awesome city come to our great department and be part of something that's bigger than yourself and and we can brainstorm those ways and have those resources and that that that access that we otherwise don't have because of the population uh breakup of the state of Vermont so I think that a group like that to help us um set the vector on where we want to go and give us ideas that we might not otherwise know or have would be crucial in helping us meet that community partnership goal and then the last slide I believe so talking about um again one of the key elements that was brought up throughout the the conversations with the community is um I would look at I am working right now towards developing a CIT program and that CIT programs not just going to be for officers here and staff and dispatchers here in Montpelier police department but we're going to open it up to the entire state and we're going to everybody's got lack of resources right now we're going to do it in a way that we're not going to charge people hundreds of dollars to do it's just going to if you can make it come and we'll cover it and we'll find creative ways to make sure we can cover things like supplies and um to print out workbooks and USP ports too to send people home with the information but we want to make sure that we we bring this type of training to as many people as possible because it saves officers lives and it saves the lives of our our public in our in our community so we want to bring this out as much as possible chief if I can interrupt you for one second could you just spell what is the CIT acronym stand for yes ma'am I apologize so the CIT is crisis intervention training and that's based off of uh it's just it's a 40 hour very robust training system that officers so we have a team two model here in Vermont that's a day's training and it gives officers familiar with the resources and Gary Gordon again is on this call he can speak to it um probably more specifically that I can but CIT uh CIT wraps it up a notch and and it talks about just like team two does bringing in peers and people who have lived experiences to share with with with officers but it has other components like that it has components that talks about officer safety and wellness it has um there's even exercises in which we have a um a headphone system that gives for disassociate personality disorder so you know schizophrenia when you're hearing voices so we do exercise like hey put these headphones on and now we're going to try to do this exercise and now you tell me how easy was that for you and now you know what that person is going through that you come into contact now here are some good ways to reach people who are in crisis to de-escalate the situation one of the things that we've learned for example is and I'm sorry I could talk all day on this stuff um one of the things that we've learned is um one of the first thing police officers want to do is what can hurt you the most its hands so the tactical thing is let me see your hands please keep your hands out of your pocket please keep your hands out of your shirt and that brings me I'll digress for a second but talking about seminars to the public that explains to the public where our tactics are what their rights are when they're stopped and pulled over we're not trying to play get you with anybody we want people to know their rights because we we abide by their rights and so if we can provide information out there to let people know why we do what we do and if that's going to decrease conflicts that's going to decrease arguments that's going to decrease um uh knee jerk reactions on both parts that we're going to do everything we possibly can to elude from that but going back to CIT it's one of those things that you're trained all the time show me your hands don't have anything in your hands if but a lot of people who have are in crisis one of the first things that they're doing is they're smoking because the nicotine helps them bring them down from that it helps them relax and what are we doing as police officers when we come to sing I need you to put that cigarette out no if I know you're in mental crisis I want you to sit down and drag on that thing as much as possible when you're calm let's talk how can how can we help you and so those are like those little things are our pivot points that can make the difference between literally life and death in certain situations so it's incumbent upon us to provide that knowledge and that information that training um to our people and as many possible our officers as possible so um so we have partnered with as you all know with the Washington County mental health services Barry police department to have a co-responder model with Montpelier and that's also best practice model and it's being done in a lot of places and it's being done well and as Gary I think alluded to earlier in the call that is something that our neighbors to the south are have been doing successfully so with that if Gary if you and Susan are still on the line would you mind talking a little bit more about mental health price intervention in the partnership okay well as I said alluded to earlier um this is something that we've been having conversations about for quite some time um and it's finally reached fruition um I think a lot of it has to do with particular with the towns with that we're in um and also with the fact that in our particular community I haven't done a crisis clinician for the last 28 years and haven't been working very closely with these two departments as well as the state police and also the Washington County Sheriff's they receive a large volume of calls that have a mental health component so part of the thinking is this is that um and we've also had as as as you're all aware we've had instances that have had tragic consequences um and we've had instances where there have been question marks about the ability of police to respond and also the ability of mental health to respond so part of the the um response to that was forced to was the development of the team two model that we developed uh shortly after drop was on Irene when Mary Moten was temporarily the uh commissioner of mental health um and the idea behind the team two model was to foster closer collaboration between law enforcement and mental health crisis clinician because we are often in the field together responding to these types of calls um in Washington County in particular we have been a mobile team since 1974 when Dr. George Brooks who was at the state hospital at the time wrote the first grant for a mobile response team which he called the world screeners so we have a history of being mobile uh since that time period um but what we found um and what law enforcement had been saying frequently to us is that the volume of calls with the mental health component was so high that um we needed more that we needed an expansion of the ability for um mental health clinicians to assist officers in the field um because for example Washington County we have two crisis workers on um at a time so we have two crisis workers on we work 12 hours shifts and they're two of us on and we're busy enough that a lot of times when the police agencies call us we cannot respond immediately we may be in the emergency room uh we may be out with another law enforcement officer we may be somewhere else in the community and this was put in the precarious position a lot of times because we weren't able to respond in a timely fashion um so the idea was was having somebody embedded with the department somebody who could be with the officers to respond to these calls um and so that's how we arrived at the we finally were able to get um the department of mental health and the two agencies to come together and and to uh provide the funding for this and we've seen the results um in Southern Vermont in um in in Rattleboro and Springfield in these areas that HRS covers we're seeing the results in St. Albans the impact that is having the feedback that they're getting of of the um efficacy of having a mental health crisis worker on the scene with officers because even even some of the calls that aren't necessarily identified as mental health calls um as we all know a lot of times when when the blue lights show up in the uniforms show up there's a heightened response um people have reactions to police officers particularly people in the population that we that we frequently have to encounter the homeless population um the people who are on the peripheral of of you know in and out of criminal behavior and in the criminal justice system um the so-called underbelly of society these are people that we often you know frequently have to deal with and a lot of them do have underlying mental health issues and although the officers have a certain degree of training um that's still not as as as uh Chief Pete said you know that's not their primary focus but we do have people such as myself crisis conditions that that this is our primary focus and we when and when we are on the scene we I believe we make a difference and I've done multiple scenes myself at officers when we've made a difference by being there enabled to in um we're able to help de-escalate the situation we're able to do an assessment of mental health assessment of the person and and connect them with the resources that they need um so that's the whole thinking behind part of the thinking at least behind having an embedded clinician so part of part of Susan's role will be to respond with the officers if de-escalation is needed she can do that if comfort is needed she will provide comfort um if she needs to do a mental health assessment she'll do a mental health assessment and make the appropriate referrals um she will be in contact with all of the other resources that are available to individuals because one thing that we recognize is that a lot of times people just aren't aware of the resources that are available which contributes to their crisis um so she will over time become familiar with those those resources um and as she is more comfortable with them she'll be making referrals to all of the partners that we work with um and um and hopefully that will we will see um an impact on the community in terms of of how we're able to better serve the population that we work with I don't know what to add to uh to those comments I wanted to reiterate what Chief Pete said about on what an amazing community that there is here um I've been so impressed already with the degree to which different organizations are working together and um with law enforcement here and the way that they interact with the public um today I was out and about in the community with one of the officers who introduced many people um that that officer has gotten to know just from walking around and building relationships and um that's so impressive and quite honestly different from many of the places that I have lived before um I think that mental health is a very specific skill set and law enforcement is a very specific skill set and there's a definitely an overlap between the two but I think working in collaboration like this is such an outstanding model because it really allows for each person to focus on what they do best um and have the most tools available at one time to try to provide assistance in whatever form that it seems most helpful in any given situation to that individual so I am thrilled to be here in this role and really looking forward to um growing it with all of you so thank you for having me here tonight and and thank you both for your time I know it's it's pretty late and uh even just this morning this afternoon there was a gentleman outside and I saw uh Susan she was already at work talking uh with this with this gentleman uh who was out front so um so the department is making continuous strides to meet the the the high expectations and the rightfully so high expectations of the people of our community and with that again I thank you for the opportunity to be here I thank you for the chance to provide you with the assessment and I stand ready to answer any questions of the council or the public great thank you so much chief um so at this point we're going to take comments from the public um I just want to make a comment too that last time we had a discussion about policing there was a number of comments that uh repeated the same script and I just want to say just from a purely personal perspective that I would encourage if anyone is is planning on doing something similar I would encourage you to speak from your heart and um not necessarily from a script it just it actually just helps me and I'm sure it probably is true for others it helps me engage with what people are saying when it's not repeated um if you want to do that perfectly fine you certainly can um I just you know wanted to give that little editorial um about that um for whatever it's worth um but having having said that um if there are folks who would like to comment now it's time so again don't forget to say your name um and where you uh live um so who got everything um yeah so yeah we have a list of folks right now so okay so yeah Cameron do you have a um a list already going yeah it would be really great if people could use the raise hand function so far I have Morgan Brown and I just heard Steve Whitaker's phone so you guys are in the queue if anyone else would like to speak if you could uh wave or raise a hand or do an emoji or something so I could see you um Morgan you're first on our list thank you um and I see Sean um Steven as well um anyone else um want to give a wave as to what's that Cameron I have a so I have Morgan Steven Sean and Lauren Allison Byron's or Burns I'm sorry if I mispronounce your name Carolyn Wesley and Isla or Isla I I gotta love I love apologize and then we'll go from there okay yep so Ariza Morgan you are up first go ahead Morgan yes um my name is Morgan Brown I live in district three um I just wanted to say that um first off I want to give a little correction uh with apologies to Chief Pete CIT actually stands for crisis intervention team training emphasis on team and um that can be found online very easily um it it's very easy to get confused and call it crisis intervention training but it's actually team is an important uh term and uh that's that's the uh third that's a third letter to T anyway I want to uh really thank Chief Pete for uh um being willing to bring CIT crisis intervention team training to uh Mopaya and elsewhere in Vermont where it already doesn't exist um there is one community uh uh in Vermont that has implemented it and um I'm trying to remember the name I think it might be Harvard or something like that in the White River Junction area anyway um uh for a long time I've been advocating for CIT training you know to come to Mopaya and elsewhere in Vermont and I'm really grateful to the Chief for uh being willing to do this I think it's essential I think it'll save lives thank you thank you unless you're not done I just like to finish if I can uh I I support Chief Pete in this endeavor and uh I think it's very important thank you thank you Morgan uh Steven you're up next uh yeah I hope you can cut me a little slack over two minutes this has been uh I was on the Landed Street walk around on the night the first night that the Chief joined us and I made specific overture there and said I I've got to speak with you about a 30-year history here and a deep experience with the department uh I was not afforded an opportunity in fact I was uh uh you know around the uh toilet uh public toilet signs and the planters the ladies who destroyed the art project uh were let off scot-free and he put his resources around accusing me so and we've got an officer our school re-altern source officer who actually put two false statements in those papers and and then we've got your detective who refused to inquire even invent to invent I'm sorry interview the perpetrator who made off with some thousand dollar speakers of mine to assess his motive you know when you talk about building trust in the community the homeless folks are not don't I mean I would I actually watch folks passing counterfeit bill I'm not I don't trust the department enough to call them either do the folks who have their beers their unopened beers stolen by the officers you know Billy is not a sloppy drunk he doesn't go out and create a problem make a lot of noise and the officers come and confiscate his beers and I told you this you've got a long way to go to build trust you know this department has a three million dollar budget and we're strapping for thirty thousand for homeless services I mean we need to put this in perspective we've got way too many officers chasing speeding cars not enough crime to warrant a three million dollar department maybe we ought to take about half of that budget and put it into mental health and homeless services you know to address this but when you've got a chronic history of crime and corruption where I've taken internal payers complaints and had the officer sweep it under the rug and say I'm about to retire why should I make waves you know I've had officers stealing my own property from M&M beverage that had been in same possession as 90 percent of the law you've got you've got a and now you've got people who are working alongside officer Matthews who are helping her cover it up and that's where it creates corruption when you turn complicity in in unfair prosecutions and unfair confiscations and you know unport detective work when you turn the blind eye to that and you create this little wall I warned Susan today that you know you're going to be asked to to you know fall into the blue wall and keep the secrets but that that's why this model may not work but we've we've got a long way to go to build trust and it's not about using you know fantasy buzzwords but the fact that these forms happened and over the cheek didn't even seek it to hear from me even though I reached out first and said I got stuff you need to know about the public records accountability it's been a year since I've been trying to get the records of the Mark Johnson shooting no one has come up with the transcript of the video the diagrams the measure distances the I'm going to interrupt you here you're talking you know all right thank you so much Stephen um all right um Sean hi well you guys put in long hours so thank you for your work um so I'm Sean Stevens I live in Montpelier I'm in I think district two and um I will be super brief because it's late and I know there's other people that are part of the group that I'm part of who would also like to speak and they have young children so this is hard for them it goes on this late so um I um I've been putting in a lot of reading and soul searching about the issues of racial justice and policing over the last several months like I'm sure that everybody is and really I've come down firmly in favor of trying to defund the police I'm putting a full stop after that period I think it's important um we know that the safest communities in America are the ones that don't center the police um I have a list of demands that was put forward by the group that I'm part of and I got nominated to read it so I'm going to read it in just a minute um I want to also point out that there was an interesting LA Times article a while ago that analyzed more than a million calls that came into the LA police department and found that 92 of those calls did not require a response by an officer authorized and armed to use force so in other words um this is basically the mission creep that Chief Pete was just talking about and I think what we are proposing here is a mission rollback that we move funding away from the police and towards true community safety so there are 11 demands I emailed them recently so in fear you you probably have received them number one and I'm going to read this but then nobody else is going to have to reread it so there won't be the repetition that you were commenting on and I thank you that that will make everybody a little less crazy number one um we do I was a redemand the following number one support efforts to remove the SR over the school resource officer from our schools number two enact the fair and impartial policing policy that was brought forward by migrant justice and allies to stop collaboration with ICE joint errors and task forces and other surveillance structures number three enact a moratorium on police raises for three years including not hiring for vacancies and create a study committee to research defunding oversight bargaining and other issues number four prioritize shifting funding from next year's city budget from police to social services including but not limited to affordable housing healthcare including mental health food security and economic empowerment number five enact and enforce a residency requirements requirement for all officers with no exceptions or grandfathering in number six have traffic and parking enforcement conducted by unarmed traffic agents number seven ban the use of all prison labor by the city and end all contracts with the department of corrections number eight ban the use of surveillance technology such as body cameras facial recognition etc and bar procurement of military style equipment and chemical weapons number nine have the police department report directly to the city council on any lobbying efforts number 10 open police contract negotiations to the public scrutiny participation and approval and the last one number 11 as part of your ongoing process to review city ordinances change them to limit police power such as to decriminalize