It is the 10th of February 2022. My name is Ram Aguco. As always, it is a pleasure being with you each and every Thursday. This is Power Talk. As always, we're coming to you live from the broadcasting house here in Nairobi, Kenya, but also streaming live through our website. That is at www.kbc.co.ke4thlashy254. Engage with us. The hashtag, as always, is Power Talk Show at Ram Aguco. And that's why 254 channel is where you can be able to engage with us. Let us know where you're watching us from, and we shall sample your feedback as we continue with this morning conversation. Already, we have made a poster on our Facebook platform. That is at www.y254thlashy254. Head over to Facebook, like the page, follow us on Facebook, and ensure that you drop in your comments on the comments section on that particular poster. And today, we want to talk about marriage. And relationships. It's been a while since we talked about this topic here. And we would like to talk about relatives. And the question is, should relatives have a say in your relationship? Should relatives have a say in your relationship? Engage with us. Let us know where you're watching us from and what you think about this. Joining me in studio, I am with none other than a pastor, Prince Isaacs Makhzaki. He is a lead pastor at the RWEMI Church in Ruiru. Can I have a prince? Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Niko Chonjo, Apostle Prince Isaacs C.A.O. Makhzaki, Agenda of the Man. Also joining us a bit later on is Reverend Humphrey Onzere, who is a senior pastor at Nairobi Damping Tocosso Church. He shall be joining us in a bit. But for now, let's kick start this particular morning conversation right here on Power Talk. Remember, I repeat, this show also airs tonight at 10 PM. Power Talk starts now. And, Apostle Prince, I want to ask that particular question, without further ado, should relatives be allowed to be parts of a relationship and have a say in it? Yeah, what a good question. And I remember when we were last in this place, talking about the secrets of a successful marriage. There is a part that we mentioned also in regards to relatives. And I would want to say relatives are part of the family. They are part of the union. They are part of the family. You cannot do away with them unless otherwise you have no father, no mother.  But if you are coming from a certain kind of a family background, these relatives will just have to be part of this marriage. But it also depends on how they become part of it. It also depends on how also you are creating room for them to be part of the family. You see? So they have to have a say. I always say this. They must have a say from the word go. When they have a say from the word go, it will make a very nice move with the marriage. It will have a very nice move, especially if they are meaning good for the family. But if they ain't meaning any good for that family, you must be very wise on how you handle them.  And also you as a man, you will be also introduced to a family whom you will be relatives to. So both sides you will find you will have relatives. And they will either in one way be positive or negative, but depending on what you are giving to them. What are you selling to them? Especially when now you are married, you understand? So this is where I take it on. And I say, they should have a say very much. They should have a say in your marriage. But they should not have a command in your marriage. They can have a say, but not a command in your marriage. What do you think from home? What do you think about this particular conversation here? They should have a say, but they should not have command. Two very interesting and particularly chosen and selective words. They should have a say, but they should not have a command in your relationship. And I want to ask you this, because in this particular conversation we shall talk in different scopes. One, we shall talk in regards to couples that are planning to get into marriage. Are you planning to get into marriage or to get married? Have your relatives already chipped in in regards to what they want and what they don't want? Have they already chipped in? Do they have a say?  You're planning to get into marriage. How do you do it? How do you plan to engage with them? And how do you plan to sieve the good from the bad? Now, that's number one. Number two, we are going to talk about those who are already in marriage. And it doesn't matter here whether you are still fresh or you've taken time. It doesn't matter. Because we're still relative relatives. So we're going to talk about those who are already in marriage. And we want to find out how are you managing it. And in this particular conversation, I'll need you. That person, you're married, you're a married man, married woman, give us your take in regards to this. Because the youths need to learn about this. This is why 254. Exactly. Because our youths need to learn about it. We don't want to hear such kind of comments about what it was too easy how I live. You need to learn about this. So teach your youths, your fellow youths about how this particular aspect should be handled. And number three, we are going to talk about those who are divorced. Separated. Separated. In a way or two. Separation could come because of a relative that came in and meddled. Because you have relatives of... When you go to a wedding, you have relatives of your own. Now, you have to measure the in-laws. Yes, with a white anchor chief. They take anchor chief. I thought they do it with a... No, a white anchor chief. So that they may demean you and make you feel that you are not qualified. Relatives. Relatives. For example, when I was in September, I was in my third year of marriage. I was in my third year of marriage. Not even Miezi. They make that place their home. Magirwa. I mean, this is our thing. This is our person. We have lived with him more than the way you want to live with him. You know? And so... And you see, what is interesting about this is that sometimes people really do not quite understand how to control relatives. Yes. Because you love them. They are your family. They are your blood. So I want you to engage with us. Let us know how you've been handling this. And if we are separated because of a relative terse story, how did you manage to go through all that pain and all that anguish and all that anger? How are you handling yourself as we speak? And we also want to talk about a bit later on the influence of relatives when it comes to divorce. I never supported that relationship from the beginning. Millions. Millions. Millions. Millions. Ladies and gentlemen, as I was saying, it's going to be hot. It's going to be hot, man. It's going to be hot. Millions. I never supported them. I never. At your... Millions. At... Ladies and gentlemen, I was talking even as I was buying time because Pastor Humphrey Onze is in studio this particular Thursday morning. Pastor Humphrey Karubuzana. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you so much. You're well? Thank you very well. The world that we are looking sharp. Amazing. Why to cream? I have no idea what you're talking about. You're well. This one is encouraging. It's quite encouraging. This should never be pink. You need help. That is the case. It's not that much of things. I've spoiled something. Some relatives have messed up here. Some relatives have messed up here. That is Pastor Humphrey Onze who is a senior pastor at Nairobi Dam Pentecostal Church. Thank you for finding time, Pastor. Please. It's a pleasure. Always welcome. Yes. Now, he was saying before you came in that relatives should have a say in your relationship but they should not have a command in your relationship. Should relatives have a say in somebody's relationship? You take. Okay. That's a very good question, sir. That's a very, very good question. I would say in one way or another, you can choose many friends. You can choose the colleagues. You can choose the people you work with. You can choose the people you want to meet. But there's something about relatives that you can never choose a relative. You are ordained for relativity. That's your blood. Yes, it's your blood. That's a big thing. And when it comes to that, we have many, many covenants in the world, including a covenant of blood. And that means when you are covenanted together by blood, you cannot run away from the same. And therefore, relatives will be with you from the day you come here. Yeah. Until the day you leave here. And they will always have a say. Be there. So you can never avoid them? You can never avoid them. Should they ever say now that? For example, since it took half an hour to talk. Nevertheless, you see, when it comes to a relationship, it really matters which kind of relationship. But if it's a relationship by the value of marriage, then that's not just a relationship. It's an ordained thing from the time before you were born. And you see, marriage is ordained in the heavenlies. Before you were born, somebody was created for you. And therefore, before the relatives came to be, the marriage was also ordained. That's a big thing too. You see, that's a big thing too. On Facebook, if someone asks me to post on Facebook, I will tell them I am having a fun year. Actually, let me read this one. This is Imani Stevian. He posted in a car advertisement here, Crusade. You know our poster? Yeah, because we are Crusading this thing. Yes, we are Crusading this thing. We are here for a Crusade. How does our poster look like a Crusade? But we are reaching many. We are reaching many for sure. In this, we are reaching many. Because we are helping families. Yes, we are helping families. Millions and hundreds and thousands of families that are stuck in this thing of relativity. And so, therefore, it is just right by saying it looks like a Crusade because we are reaching them out, giving them a solution now to it. Now, I want us to start from the beginning. And as I mentioned, we are going to start with the youngsters. Those who want to get into marriage. Now, somebody has been engaged. And ladies and gentlemen, this particular conversation is for those who are serious about relationships, just as a disclaimer. Those are serious. Even people who are still joking around, playing around with the women and men. No, these are serious conversations. So, there is this youth, a young person, who wants to get into marriage. But now, their relatives are already involved in the whole marriage preparations. And you see, it is at this time that a lot of cancelling is given to young couples that are planning to get married. How should a young couple handle such kind of scenarios where relatives are coming to visit you? Everyone is giving you different advices. Everyone wants their own thing. Everyone wants even the wedding itself to be handled in a particular manner. Please. The best, because I've gone through the same, the best way a young couple would handle such is number one, by turning to God. It doesn't matter which kind of a family they have been raised from. Because marriage is marriage, despite of whether you are born again or not born again. So, you are coming from somewhere. Whether you're Christian or not Christian, or not Christian, marriage is marriage. It's the bringing of two people into a covenant of blood that makes them one person. But now, as a Christian, now as I address it as a Christian, you should turn back to God. You should turn back to God for advice and direction. Let him lead your passion and affection towards the right lady who you want to get married to.  It means that he will also lead you into a relative family that will also be conducive, unfavorable, and loving to you. Now, this is before you... Now, in that case, it's before you've chosen to marry. Before you have chosen, you have said, yes, I do. Because the conflict comes in before. Yes, yes. When you ignore the before, the aftermath will just come automatic. That's very important. That's very, very important. Because however much you would like to change a person, you cannot change a person after. You only change a person before. The proactive aspect of it is very key. So if they don't change before marriage, leave them alone? Just leave them alone. You don't cut off the relationship. You manage. You bring it to subjection. Yes. Yes, you bring it to subjection. And simply because, you see, there's a notion that says we take here and we take here, we put together, it comes one. That's a notion, it looks like a principle. But the reality of it is different. The reality of it is like one sober mind has to work it out. And you see, the sober mind begins with a person. Who is this person? So are you saying in every relationship, there must be that person that is mad and the sober one? Yes, yes, yes. Yes, definitely. Definitely. That is why the head is also one. Yes, yes. The one who makes it work is not the confused one. It's not the confused one. The one who makes it work is the sober one. Let me ask you, let me ask you about it. You're both married. So it's going to make sense if I ask you both of these because you're married with kids. In your relationship, I will say for your toes a bit. So who is the sober one and who is the mad one? We are both. We are both. In you, who is the sober one? I would say we are both. We are both sober and I can also go mad. I can also go mad. And for you? Yes, it's the same. We are both. Yes, so in every time, there's something to be tackled, the sober mind will be needed. That sober mind is what we are looking at right now. So is there somebody ready to be sober before you go into this? Before, even you just say, yes, I do. As the man of God is here. Because you see, you can only change things when they are before. Yes. And learning the person before and so mingle with this person and know them very well before. Know the kind of people you are being exposed to before and see if your kind of make is sober enough to handle, subdue, subject, have authority over them. Now, let's now bring it closer here to home. We have an uncle who is putting this man or this lady under pressure with so many things. How should a young couple planning, not yet married? Not yet married, they are engaged. How do they handle these relatives who are bombarding them with a lot of advice? And of course, not all of them should be taken seriously. And those will advise you, but it might actually not work out well if you listen to them. Yes, yes, yes, that's the thing. Because whoever you seek advice from, it means you have a particular aspect of reception. Because you can't be seen from a person you have no ability to protect from. Yes, yes. You see, that's the thing. And therefore, because of the same, that person who advises must be at a particular angle of reflecting the you, bringing out the you on the best of who you are. If they can advise beyond who you really are, it means you are under influence. And that influence is what we're talking about. Are you under a right influence? How do you gauge the person who is advising you rightly? You gauge that person by the principles and the precepts of the Bible. If you're born again, that is. That is for those who are born again. There is nothing, whether you're born again or not, that cannot work without the concept of the Bible because he, God, who authored marriage and relationship, he is the same whether you are this way or that way. He is just the same God. So how do you change? You value this person by the kind of wisdom because the person who instructs you will either construct you or distract you. So if this person is. Wait, wait. Please, let's have a moment of silence. Yes. Say it again, Father. I suppose I'll say that again. That's a good thing. That's a good thing. You cannot just lie in a lot of the ranks. Say it again.  So if you heed to this person's wisdom and this person's wisdom is earthly, is based on the things that are physical, but not on the eternity of the good thing that you're having, then you are into a distraction. But if this person is seeing the best out of what he is seeing right now, that person is constructing you. And when he is constructing you, he's bringing sobriety. So you are not going to make a decision out of any emotion, but you're going to make a decision out of a thinking mind, not of a feeling heart. Exactly, exactly. And that's why we're coming down to which kind of relative and what is the relative saying? Because among the relatives, we have very beautiful, amazing relatives. People who have you biologically tied up together and they're also spiritually tied up together, but they are also well-gospeled in terms of they have the value of the gospel in the person. Gospel is good news. That means the reflection of who you really are in God. You see, that's a big thing. And because of that, if a relative would be there to enhance that and bring it out and make you come to the best that God saw in you, I think that's a good relative. But he's constructing. He's constructing you, he's building you, he's bringing you out. But if a relative would be there to always look down to the downfall of who you really are, bring you down, diminish you. Even that little that you have has the ability to squeeze it and cast it out from you. And then you are no longer yourself, you are somebody else, trying to adjust to the influence that you have. I think that's a wrong relative. So it'd be in the church perception or in the worldly perception, but as long as they are not looking at the value of the good in you, the goodness in you. Now, when relatives come in, you tell your uncle or your aunt or that person that you want to marry, you want to get married. They'll ask you, do you have a child? I want to see who they are. And I talk to her. And I talk to her. And I talk to her. And I talk to her. And I talk to her. And I talk to her. No, no, no, no. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes. But you want to go to church? I fly to the church. This is a relative. Yes, this is a relative. What do you do? Now, on that, that's a very good thing too. On that particular angle, it means that relative has a perception. He's looking at you from a single lane, the kind of way. He's not looking at you, the fullness of who you really are. Because the single lane kind of perception would be, you're limited to their own understanding, their own perception. And that's just a perception. But now, what do you do?  And they'll tell them, we seek kubali, we seek kubali, they will call you umtoto. Yes, we seek kubali. We seek kubali umtoto. We seek kubali umtoto. We seek kubali umtoto. This is what you do in such a point. You also must not also, the lover and the beloved must not also too much expect a lot from your relatives. Exactly. Because the decision is coming from you. Yes, you are the one marrying this person. Or you are the one dating this person or loving this person. It is not the relatives, per se. But also you must have a sober mind, a very firm mind to protect this lady. In fact, relatives come to test whether, you know, they test whether you can handle the storms after. Yes, yes. And I thank God for relatives. If they come in that kind of a manner, to my picture. Yes, to my picture. Yes. And if they come to that kind of a manner, to my picture. Yes, to my picture. Yes. And if they come to that kind of a manner, to my picture. To my picture. To my picture. Yes. Those people are testing the quality of instruction and wisdom and value. And value that. That is in this woman, for this man. Exactly. And for this man and vice-versa, you know. And that one is now bringing the sense in the two, when they are now the two of them. Yes, yes. They can now evaluate. Evaluate. And say this one we can work with, okay. This one we cannot work with. But now here we have a scenario where even they go tribal. They say. If you marry from this tribe in our family, you don't accept it. Let me tell you, sir. You see, any time we pray and we ask in God for a lifting, we simply ask in God for somebody's wisdom. We are also asking God to allow some people to come in your lineage of oppression. The people who have experienced, have had experience. And out of the experience, they have built up some wisdom. And you see, you cannot ignore that. So it means from the experiences of the people, somebody can learn and say, that is not a good way to go. That is a good way to go. But you are the final person to make the decision by the value of who are you. After you've seen it all on the other side, in the people, what they have done, how they behaved, and stuff like that, it comes down to who are you really. Now the question is, should you listen to them? Yes, I know who I am. I know what I want. And I want that. And a lady will say, I want that man. I love him. To every move of God, to every step that God uses to move a person from one level to another, there is always a person. So you cannot ignore the person. The person must be involved, but by the value of the gospel in you, bringing out the beauty, the grace, the power, the goodness within you. If the person is not able to bring out that, it means there is a diversion. And that is what the devil loves to capitalize upon. I want us to move quickly. Yes, answer that thing. Also just adding on what the man of God is saying. The Bible asks a very good question. Whose report shall you believe? Whose report shall you believe? Are you now believing the report of others? Yes. From the person you love? Yes.  You know what it is, do research. Do research. These people do research. Let me tell you, like the question you have just asked. They ask, where is he coming from? What tribe is? That's what they say. He's from Masai, from Fanyahivi. At times, at times, there is some wisdom in it. At times. At some times. At some times. And at some point when, like the man of God was saying, at some point when this person has the value of the gospel. But now you see, this is a point here that I am also trying to bring on board here. They have done their research. They have seen that this particular lady used to be like this a few years ago. Or this man, Alikwana Penaq Fanyahi in Nairobi. So they have done their research. They have seen you on social media.  But now you see, now you're different. Should you bank on that? Because they are telling you the truth that that is who he is. At times, don't avoid it. At times, don't avoid it. The relatives that have done research, they are not doing research because they want you down for. Some of the relatives wants the best for you. And so they always do the research to make sure that at the end of it, you get a good thing. The best. The best out of it. It's coming out of you. But now, when you avoid it, is when Sasashida Itakuja.  To me. I don't know. Yeah. No, it's nothing. You can say that you have been with them. You can call them and tell them you have been with them. Because now you are at a place where you can't go back. It has already happened. and you can't move forward because you don't know what to do and now you have to go back to trying to dig in the history. But you see if you would have taken their way of work, their way of perception and then add it in the value of who you really are that would definitely bring you to another level. Exactly. In other words we're saying for me to move from this level to another level God will bring people and I'm very careful when I'm saying this God will bring people on my lineage of operation and when God brings people it is now me to design and fill because the spirit of God is within me. I would design and say this one has come is God's same person. So the confusion comes when you are going back to the same thing you are not sober enough to understand that this is God given and this is not God given. I want to touch on something else. On another text is that these people are not born again, man of God. These people are totally they're not church gods. So they're giving an example of those people who are not church going. Yes, yes. We are tackling it all. What do they do now? If for somebody like... You're talking about the Bible. Yes. There is a Bible that does not follow them by them. That's the thing, yes, yes. And their marriages are good. Why? Because number one, maybe they had somebody like the way we are hearing. They had somebody who that lady, that lady can make a one. Yes, yes. We have searched her background and it is something that did not happen now. It is biblical. It is even historical in the Bible. They used to go and find out from where the lady is coming from. Yes. Have they been ever married? Have they ever bought it? So they find out and then they come and tell you that somebody who has no background. Yes, yes. They always tell you I want to touch on yet another thing. Now quickly as you wrap up on those who are not yet married and then you get into the married one. Yes, yes. Those who are not yet married now, they are getting into that process of making things official. Now you see it is at this time that you're going to see their parents and their parents are coming to see you. People are getting to interact and you are exchanging gifts. You're taking cows or whatever, or whatever name you want to call it. But now this is where it gets messy. It goes messy. It goes messy simply because men have a way of doing things. Men are already standards. They have standards of operation. They behave like men. I like it in the Bible when the rich young ruler in the book of Luke chapter number 18 he comes over and says, you know what Jesus, what must I do to inherit the kingdom of God? And you see that is what must I do. So men have a way of the do's and the don'ts that you cannot ignore. And on the value of the do's and the don'ts, there is something bigger. And the bigger thing in this matter is God coming through the person to be able to bring the reflective ability that the person is able to understand who they really are in the inside. Because if they can't love themselves, then they will not be able to love any other person. If they cannot be able to understand who they really are by the value of the deposits within, they will not be able to appreciate the deposit that other people are bringing on board. Now let me ask you and then I come to you.  But now in this case, you have arrived and they have added the psalm. So the one that you've brought is now not enough. They're saying add more. Now they have added more, they want another, you know, they want more money. Now these relatives are now making this process very harmful for this particular individual. What should a couple do in the case where relatives get involved in the dowry process? You see before every marriage brother, there's something called love and love is very key. And every man or woman, any person involved in love is supposed to fight for their love. That means love is greater than anything else. You fight, you don't have money. This is how you do it. You don't fight from what you don't have. You always fight by what you already have. That's why even when God wants you to fight, he deposits, deposits within you. So that you have something to pick from as you engage. So how do you fight it?  What do you want to be in life? Who are you in life? And then you pick out the same value and then there's a value in this woman that you're feeling, you have it. You see it working together with the value that is deposited in you with no cash. And then you look at the hindrances around you and the things that hinder that and the capability of fighting is rising up from within you saying, if you really love her, then do it for her. So if they make more demands, find a way of meeting those demands? You can. That's why I'm saying you can only go back to who you really are.  I will take it like this. And do you agree with what he said? Yes, I also agree. I just want to add on Kidogo. It has happened to me personally. Tell us your story. You come into a dowry negotiation and you know from the tribe where I married is they don't allow you to go there to negotiate for marriage. They come to negotiate for dowry. Yes, at your own home. They are the ones who are coming. You're not allowed to go. You are not allowed to go. So they come. So when they see the home is good and they see everything as well and they know now the values of family. Once they look at everything, the dowry negotiation like ours started from $3 million. Man of God, you have brought your elders. You have brought all the ones there and they are sitting down. What do you do? A million is there. $3 million. You know, in the lowland, in the lowland man, dowry is a gift one. You mean they're coming to the kind of house you stay in? Yes. If you have a car? Yes. The living room. How is the living room? Yes. And then they'll say, who you? Yes. And they first of all eat once and make sure they are okay. Very strong enough. They also consider how they're eating, whatever they're eating. What is this? What did you cook? You get. So after that is when now they sit down for dowry. My brother, I had put Waze. You know, for the first time they listened and they said, have you said $300,000 or $3,000? Or $3 million. What have you said? You see, it took them by a shock because they were in the lowland, many women have been married without even dowry. Yes. And they are living happily. And they are living happily. And they were like, you could have even said one cow. Yes. The people have come with the 12 cows one. 3 million. Relatives. Relatives. Is it weakness? Is this weakness? The father is not allowed to even sit where the negotiation is. Your father. The father in law. My father in law. He's not allowed to sit where the negotiations are. The relatives are talking on behalf. The relatives are now talking on behalf. Now, because now there is where now coming to. Now, when you have made a good rapport with the parents of the lady, the relatives say has no value, has no weight. The parents to you say has the weight more than what the value of the relatives.  Do not make the relatives. Make the family. The mother and the father, Kwanzaa. Yes, yes. Wafrai. Watchin' on how my uncle's family... I'll fight Kwanzaa when you know the hour is coming. Start mapema. Start mapema. Wakatibaduna chumbiana. Start mapema. Now, if you're born again, go there. Visit them, talk to them, love them. Make them feel you are a son indeed or a daughter indeed. Because if you don't do that, they will throw you to the relatives. And you will face the consequences. The relatives are against you. Relatives? Relatives? Oh man, I don't know you. I don't know. Because cultures are different. When you leave to the ladies culture. How was it for you? Did the relatives disturb you when it comes to that? I'm telling you, mine was a little different. I say I was so graced for the same. I was so graced. You know, grace is the ability of God that works on your behalf. Yes, accordingly. So I was so graced with the same that... When I went to my in-laws, the brothers received me so well. The brothers to my wife. They took me so well. They came at a place, just to wait for me. And then my brothers were the ones taking me around, going with them in the house and inviting me in. And then when my people began to speak, there was a strong relationship already between me and the in-laws that had not just begun because we were coming. The relationship was already established. They had loved me for who I am. In fact, I tried it. I tried it. There's a time I even tried to say to my fiancé then, like I don't think this thing is going to work. I'm feeling like we are making a big mistake. And I was teasing. I was really just to see if she really serious because you should test love anyway. You should test love to find out if she really in love or she's trying to play around.  I could not even show her what I have, the possessions I have. I told her I have nothing. I'm zero preacher. Number two, I'm coming from a family that is not well off. Number three, I'm here and I think because of who you are in terms of change, we cannot be able to bring all together. And she talked to the father about it. And she said to the father let her talk to the father. Daddy, this man is like this. This man is like this. And the man says, you know what, bring him on. Bring him on. That's why I'm saying I'm graced for the same. I wish I had somebody here to talk to. And we have somebody shout out. I'm not a lawyer. And it is the secret, man of God. It is the secret because the same method is the same method that happened well for us. My fiancé then who went and talked to the father and the mother and explained to them and told them this kind of a man is this way and this way. When I arrived home, man, you are received like a king until you're like, am I really in the same? Am I still pinching yourself and say am I still a post-op prince Isaac? Favour, when your wife talks well about you in their relatives there is something that just comes out. Ladies and gentlemen, I want us to I want us to take a short break but before that after this break, we are now going to talk about those who are married.  We finish those who are not yet married and those who are planning to get married. But before that the final question about those who are still getting into marriage is it advisable that you take somebody that your relative has proposed that who you marry what you and I I have someone better it is your relative that's a very good one. Should they have a say in your relationship and after this break we will now talk about those who are married and whether their relatives should have a say in a marriage setup and of course later on we will talk about divorce so keep talking to us. The hashtag is our power talk show at Ramaguko and at Y254 channel I am already seeing so many comments but from there head over to Facebook Y254 is the place to be drop a comment on our poster there and I shall sample your feedback after this break. We are taking a short break we will be back in a bit. This is power talk. As always it is a pleasure. Welcome back. This is power talk and today we are talking about the effects of relatives in the world's relationships. Have relatives affected your relationship? How hard did they hit you? And of course we are talking about before marriage during marriage and in cases of divorce. Now today as I mentioned earlier on I am going to sample your feedback but keep talking to us. The hashtag is power talk show at Ramaguko and that Y254 channel is where you can be able to engage with us. We posted a poster on our Facebook page and you are asking should relatives have a say in your relationship? I am going to sample a few of your feedback a bit later on. I am with the pastor Hamfeon Zere who is a senior pastor at Nairobi Damp Pentecostal Church and also with Apostle Prince Isaac Mxzaki who is a lead pastor at RWMI that is in Ruiro. Of course gentlemen thank you so much it is heated and I am very excited I believe you are making an impact in this conversation I can feel it we are helping somebody You can walk in grace and not make a name Now I want us to touch before we get into those who are married your relative has told you what do you do because you have to honor and respect your uncle Pastor Hamfeon talking about the Bible he who finds a wife the finding aspect of it has no limitations whether it is by the relative or by walking on the streets or by just being anywhere as long as it is found it is like when you are born you never choose where to be conceived from you can be conceived from a place in a hotel in a banana leaf somewhere the issue is not about where was it the issue is about are you conceived or not you see that is a big thing so when it comes to relative speaking to you about who to marry it is coming down to do you have that position of that particular wife in your spirit because if a relative would suggest and it works it is not working because the relative suggested it is working because you found a wife it is not real about the channel by which the wife was found is by do you find a wife do you live the one you have for the one your relative has proposed because they seemingly know better than you if the person that you have it means you never found her you never found her briefly 31 Proverbs verse 10 says a prudent wife who can find a prudent, a vicious wife how what is more than rubies who can find finding that point of finding is not being given there is a point of being given and there is a point as a man now we are talking on man as a man finding but now there is now the point of a woman being given because there are women who are given husbands out here and we cannot overlook that fact or now I am a cousin and I am a woman I am a woman age will catch up with you I am a woman and if that person does not fit in the right rib of that woman or of that man whatever union it is the Bible says whatever God has put together let no man put a sin so men can be used to bring you a wife or a husband but also God can also lead you into the path for example of Vashti and Esther Vashti was a wife to the king of Texas whatever that powerful name Jesus you know and Aleppo letter Maringo the relatives in the kingdom talked to the king and told the king king when I am here what is this what is this you are a king don't you know that you are a king you are a king but you are a mother because you see a king a man is to first of all show people their wealth and then after their wealth they crown it but now the wife was not the crown so they had to look for the crowning of the wealth of this king so they had to look for the crowning and the mother being a relative and she said please please no way out of the many ladies Esther qualified and you see at times these people can look at you and see what you deserve so they can either help you they can either help you to find it or God himself to lead you but something must happen now you are with somebody they have told you take someone else do you say yes or no now that you are with somebody and they have told you now this one is not good for you deal with this other one God does not love divorce it has a life separation you only do that if 3 things happen 1. I am a kufa 2. I am a patigana I am a shirati 3. I am a kuchabila sababu I am an empty house and what if I am a jawanabadu I am a kusai dia I am a kusai dia I am a kusai dia because I am a Tawashida I am a Dajd Bunat I am a Dajd Bunat I am a Dajd Bunat I am a Dajd Bunat I am a Tawashile I am a tawashile let's head over to those who are married I am a Tawashile we have a couple that is married whether they are a few weeks or years into marriage a young couple or an old couple that has taken long in marriage they both get affected by the by relatives but now how do we handle it is different now let's talk about a couple that now we have shifted gears now a relative wants to visit you but your husband does not like that relative but as a wife you you must also play your cards right what do you do your husband doesn't like a particular relative but that relative is the other wants to come visit or your wife doesn't like that particular relative but as a man that is a person that wants to come visit you what do you do before coming yes yes now listen brothers i would say it is when it comes to marriage marriage is a union in the it's a covenant to it's a union it's a covenant yes it's a a body that has been mended to fit together mingle together rhyme together serve together and achieve the purposes of god while they are still here so there's no marriage in heaven the marriage is we have here not fine she functioning here on the earth so what happens is this because of the union aspect of it you fight to keep yourselves together in the fight means sometimes you'll have to let go that's why even with the union of christ we die to who we are and christ comes down to where we are and then we are made together as one and we grow together so the beauty of a marriage is not when there's a voice that commands do that do that love this take that put this off no no there's something about i'm willing to let go of this so that i can fit in here so should should so who should let go in this case is it you as a spouse that should let go and allow the relative to come or at this level is it you as opposed to say that because my my partner doesn't want this relative at this level it is both the couple i mean the husband and the wife to think of this what are the values that make our marriage work and then adjust to those values fight for those values and do whatever they can do to keep those values alive what should come be specific what should somebody do now when it comes to do it because now the values are there now when it comes to do it it is a matter of before i got you what is this i wanted in a woman and what is this i wanted in a man now is this here if whatever you wanted in a man or a woman is there then you will fight everything else every other voice that comes from within from without you will fight it looking forward to keeping what was mended together to stand do you say that because my partner does not want this this relative no i'm saying this i'm saying this because you can adjust to that because you love this the aspect of love for your family this is the aspect of love for your spouse you can easily say i think because this hurts my my whatever my husband my wife i think i will keep it off for the sake of it but then on the other side the wife would adjust to and say because my husband loves me and these are his people i would surrender so she will love what she never wanted to love good she will give him to what she never wanted to give it simply because these are my people her his people have become my people when we speak of those things we are not talking about the things you're not talking about magari my yumba you're simply talking about values of life that are good and surrounding this particular person so when they come to your world your world begin to reciprocate and your world says yes i will take him or i will take none never ever put your wife or your spouse or your husband in a point where they will have to choose between you or their relatives yes never ever as a married couple you work solely if your man is to protect your husband then your wife and if you're a wife yours is to solely submit to your husband it is like that never put any both husband or wife in a partner in a place where they have to choose between should i be with my husband it is not a good place to be it is not a good place if you make me if you choose the relative umeribu yumba umeribu yumba if you choose your wife umeribu yumba yes yes so what you do work with your spouse it it must have it it must flow naturally from you you must work with your spouse they became one and so what you're thinking is what she's thinking unless you didn't marry the right person but if you married the right person what you're thinking is what they will be thinking and so you will have a synchrony and an energy that will make even your relatives respect you you know what this is from experience if your wife shows a little of disrespect to the husband the relatives will will pick that frequency and will magnify it yes and that's your problems again and if your husband also have no regard to the wife yes or mistreat the wife they will pick that frequency and they will show it now what you do as a man or what you do as your as a wife you make sure that let everything that you guys are doing are in one now i want to ask you this question now i want to talk about relatives in a different perspective here we have a couple that is having a problem even as you speak i know somebody's going through this yes you're married but your spouse hailewani does not they're not in tandem with your mother-in-law or your father-in-law hailewani in fact they don't see eye to eye and the day if at all you're a man the mother-in-law comes home um it is when when your partner is not seeing eye to eye with your in-laws the bible says very well that when the foundation of the righteous is shaken what will they do it doesn't matter how beautiful the house is if the foundation is wrong it will still come down so in this case it means if your father or your mother or your whatever relatives come in your house and do such misbehaviours in front of either your husband or your wife it means the foundation you set in that house was wrong from the word go and so whatever they will you will harvest you are harvesting of a very shaky foundation so as a man you must stand in a position where your mother-in-law or your father-in-law or whatever relatives they will come in your house and behave man of god there's something we've talked about let me let me tell you let me give you an example let me give you an example his excellency the president of the republic of kenya has married a very beautiful wife her excellency the first lady migrant believe you me you cannot go in that house even if you are a relative and misbehave you must be because hierarchy and standards have been set so whenever a house even if it is as small as what if standards values and principles have not been set that house will be hit by storms waves floods my god my god yes yes and i'm saying this the glory of a parent is not when you remain protective over your son or your daughter forever no that's not the glory of a parent a parent is only glorious when he realized that they put some values in the son or in the daughter that are able to function when they are not there and they can move forward you see so the glory of the parent should be should be at a place where the parent is enjoying watching the son love and then watching the son love by the value of you know my son does this with the wife she should not feel jealous she should enjoy watching the son love and then the the father in law should never feel like you know i know i wish i married a woman like this you you're eyeing the wife of your son that's that's not it and it has gone to either to an extent whereby the father the father is in love and makes her you know they meet the daughters you know and you're like what so you gone beyond my mother and now you are eyeing my wife what's happening with you are you crazy are you crazy so the beauty or the glory of a parent is to say oh my god i raised this son in a value values of life that they are able to love when they see the son playing around with the wife carrying the wife up you know sitting on the lap you know bring the wife to sit on the lap they should be like hallelujah they should be happy like for example for example my my mother in my mother both my mothers yes because i always call them my mother yes they love it when they see me call my wife a total dollar a total euro bond okay i will come there i will come there it will be hot it's gonna be hot here now personally yes but you've not told us yes what you should do as a partner when your fellow partner so does not see eye to eye with your inlaw so the issue is the parent must lay values and the couple must sustain the values to be able to say these are the values that we were given and because these are the values that we were given and we love them we enjoyed them we will be able to play our position so everybody should take their position if you are a son be the son and don't be the kid don't be the kid exactly don't be a little kid don't be a child fine to say you know that's what you are able to do they never did that to me that's the childish but you know this even family gatherings yes they cannot sit on this in the same room because they are well what do you want to see my pussy you are stupid your wife take her position let the wife take and that's like the man of god said the wife has a position the position is identified by the value of subjection submission the man has a position and the man has a position called a platform of love you who is loving must receive back a receptability that says i submit to this love this love here and we see there's there's there's something you've said and i love what you said and i thank god for my father yes that's what i told me once uh actually so many times that the day you find a wife ensure that you build a foundation with her and let her know yes that she must respect your parents wow and you yourself must respect her parents yes i always and you see that parent part of it you see there are others out here we must not be you know just knowing us we who have been raised by good parents there are others out here who have no good parents they are drunkards they are messy they are what they are those ones that you see they come and do these things and pee man way and maybe someone's father is a drunkard you know and the son doesn't respect but he's not yes now it brings to it brings this person to a mentor find somebody who can father you if you don't have a biological father who has values who has values find a man who has also gone through marriage and they have the experience with revelation in grace let me ask you as a woman if you if you know very well that your husband does not see eye to eye with his own parents what is your role as a woman to see in this particular scenario it's very easy as a you you have come as you as a uniting force you have not come as a separation yes you have come as a uniting force and as a uniting key exactly so come into the marriage or into the family and unite them i've seen many people who have brought the husbands back to their parents and wives back so it is possible it is very possible now i want us to touch on this at the time i'm told we only have now you must take this to the next season two or three because you can't hurry us in something that is so good it's better we don't finish but we are tackling something very important getting their solutions so okay let's not touch on another thing to happen now we shall finish with those who are still married but i want us to sample what people are saying on social media now my name is steve thank you so much my brother don't don't be worried you love you man in fact i love your honesty a multi-dreamer business my love belongs to to the two of you let relatives discuss about the meal and resting they should be in or no ratio or whatever keep Emmanuel Chesumbaya and i say mama pens in your wheelie you keep it a word to you keep it a hero this yasa community community community people love names i tell us about watching from assemble arreada tuned in kamakaweda partial kendi moudoni and some are tuned in look junior and some are it depends whether they should have a say or not it depends team baba prince anasema no way it is your relationship not your relatives relationship that's right north banda anasema no way they will not allow their relative to have a say in their relationship a big thanks to each and every person that's tuned in to today's your emma akina emma zele skyline stares lazy dan dan dan the akina partial sami role lee and kaspin knowing you know see this emma imagine as in you sort of like in an asanta sauna for tuning in want to bring this conversation to an end and i want to ask there is somebody saying that he at the uh relationship are not for the faint hearted all right yes yes i want to give you 20 seconds yes 20 seconds have a final word within a shortest time possible 20 seconds let me say to the person i would say like this number one i would want to say marriage is marriage because of the foundation called love and not conditions best marriage any marriage that is built by the values of conditions you will fail it but the value of love has ability to exceed and go beyond conditions so you can easily say i chose this marriage because i love to be here wow first of all as a man or as a woman in the life of this person to complement his life to complete his life not to complicate it any complication comes when there is a third party involved into the love relationship of the two that has become one so friends out there whatever place you are your love is solemnly for your wife and your wife for your husband wonderful others are channel now in your community wonderful what is the purpose of friends uh lady pastor at uh r w m i church in ruiru and reverend humphrey on senior pastor at narobi dam pentecostal church ladies and gentlemen i know we've not touched on everything because this conversation is so deep yeah it's very deep you cannot touch on everything but we have to bring it to a close i repeat of this show as again tonight and tell at 10 p.m tell a friend to tell a friend if you know this show is very much educative and unique uh i want us to bring it to a close with a quote bring it up team oh so um there's a delay there so let me just read it and uh you can tell me if you agree with this a quote is all families are different and unique but they all have one thing in common and that thing is love i love that my name is ram maguko see you again next day that is awesome that's a nice way to end it so that we may begin it from there yes we'll be there from there goodbye everybody thank you so much for tuning in this is power talk


Think Tech Hawaii. Civil engagement lives here. Aloha and welcome to Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 2.30 in the downtown studios of Think Tech Hawaii and the Pioneer Plaza. I want to do a little shout out today. I was watching KHON last night and they have a new business segment on there. It's brand new, first premiere showing Business Matters and it was an evening broadcast. It's so good to see that some of the local media is picking up the theme of highlighting successful businesses in Hawaii. And that's what this show is all about. This show, Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker, is about highlighting those individuals and those businesses that have made it successful in Hawaii despite all the challenges and we've heard of what all those challenges are, the cost of living, the Jones Act, the regulations, the taxes, etc. etc. So there's acknowledgement that yes, they're out there but there are people who have made it successful. They're doing well and it's important that we highlight those success stories and I'm very thankful that KHON has decided to join me in highlighting those success stories here in Hawaii. Today we've got some more success stories to talk about. There's a firm called Schlakito that's got two very dynamic attorneys. They probably have a few other attorneys there too but the two that we have on the show today is Matt Matsunaga and Tony Doniz. They're going to be here today and share a little bit about themselves and about their firm and how they're out there helping businesses in a lot of different ways and helping the law profession in Hawaii. So welcome to the show, Matt. Thank you very much, Reg. Last time I was here we were talking about workers comp issues and very much appreciate the chance to appear again. Yeah and that's a big expense item in Hawaii and it's important to control that and I guess you and we had a physician with you I think. We had Dr. Scott McCaffrey and talk about how to get an injured worker back to work and hopefully with minimal consequences to his or her family. And that helps control the costs. Absolutely. Keep things down and that's important to do that. Today you've got another guest that you brought with you, Tony. Tony, welcome. Thank you for having us. Yeah of course. You're relatively new with the firm. That's correct. I've been with the firm approximately a year and a half now and I was formerly a prosecutor, a deputy prosecuting attorney, but before I joined this firm. Which prosecutor did you work for? The Carlisle Laney? No, no, no. The current. The current guys. Okay. All right. Well it's great to have you on the show. It's great and we're gonna talk a little bit more about you and your background here shortly but Matt for those watching today that didn't catch the first show that you were on, can you just give us a quick brief background on who you are and what you've done? Sure, Rich. I don't know how far back you want me to go but I was born in Queens Hospital. Good. Now let me start with I was actually like you, Rich. I was a CPA working in Washington DC for Price Waterhouse. Great firm. My father came to me one day and he said, what do you think about going to law school? Because if you have an interest in politics it's really helpful to understand the law and he graciously said that he and my mom would pay for my law school education at Georgetown and so I agreed. I got tired of the fast cars of the CPA lifestyle so I went to law school. Well you know a few people know this but another definition of CPA is constant party animal. That's true. Yeah we work hard but we party hard. There were better lawyer jokes and there were CPA jokes. Yeah well we won't go there. Can you just explain real briefly your father was an influence? Who was your father? My father was the late United States Senator, Spark Matsunaga and he always believed that the best way to seek equality and justice in life is by changing the laws and that's what led him to go to law school. That's what led him into politics. And that took him to Washington. Absolutely yes and so I went to Georgetown Law School. Great school of course. Upon graduation 33 years ago I returned to my birth place and I've been practicing for 33 years the first 20 with another firm Carl Smith Ball and the past 13 with Schlackeetel and we're hard workers. We're not. We're Schlakers. We're not slackers. That's good. That's a good way to remember it. And what what does the firm do? Is there any particular specialization? Our firm is made up of former big firm attorneys who sought a more desirable atmosphere to practice with and we do primarily business transactional law although we have expanded in recent years to beef up our litigation department and of which Tony is a very proud member of our litigation folks but we do a lot of commercial leasing. We do a lot of corporate business planning. We have a nonprofit tax attorney. We have a PUC environmental attorney. Pretty much a broad spectrum of business aspects and then we also have our litigation team to augment that. And I notice I think there was a real estate component in there too a little bit. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And what area of real estate? I mean what what is it? Is it the conveyances? Is it rules regulations? Is it building? We have commercial leasing to help out landlords who own real estate. We also have acquisition folks who are familiar with buying and selling commercial real estate. We have those who are familiar with development of real estate whether it's through the condominium, statute or through other aspects but pretty much a wide variety. Very good. If you have land what do you want to do with it and how can we help you? How to maximize the value of that land too. Yeah. And what area do you spend your time in? I spend a lot of time in just business transactional things and I kind of equate myself to like a Swiss army knife so if a client comes to me and says Matt I have this problem how can you help solve it? And so I do quite a bit of real estate, quite a bit of corporate, quite a bit of governmental affairs where I can utilize my experience in the state senate and a lot of people in business don't realize the importance of how the state government or sitting county can actually help them achieve their goals. And so that's one of the aspects that I help advise my clients on. Well that almost sounds like you would be a good corporate counsel in the sense that whenever there's a legal issue regardless of what that is they come to you and you're like the first point of contact. You can either take care of it yourself or point them in the right direction. That's what I hope to be and I hope that my clients will see me as you know here's the problem. Help me figure out how to solve it and I can tell them I might not be the best person to solve the problem but hopefully I can identify all the issues and at least solve the problems I can't and point you in the direction to where others can help solve those problems. Very good well that's good to know. Tony, switching to you a little bit. How long have you been in Hawaii? You've been here for a long time. I've been in Hawaii since 1994 from Tacoma, Washington originally and it came over here to thaw out a little bit. Well the military sent me here truth be told and then I went to graduate school and I got a master's degree in linguistics and then I went to law school after that. So now you can speak Japanese? I do speak some Japanese yes. Very good. And some German actually but and just out of curiosity because I'm a veteran as well which branch of the Navy or Army? US Army. Okay very good. I came over in 73 a few years before you. Yes that was some time before me. But you came over and what after you got out of the Army you decided that you were gonna go to school and you started going to school here? That's correct. I did know at that time that the Linguistics Department at University of Hawaii was rather prominent and very strong so that was something I wanted to pursue from a department that was as good as UH. So I went into linguistics and I started teaching and I went to law school. So you started teaching you actually taught in Hawaii for a little while? That's correct yes I was there taught for about ten years. Very good. Alright what triggered you to explore a law career? Well it's something that's been in my brain for quite some time and actually I was telling Matt today that it was literally one of these stories where I wake up one day and I said well no that's it's time to start going to law school. Something again it had been thinking about for some time and then I just woke up I said nah today's the day we start. Wow. And I went and did it. It's kind of a big jump it's a change. It was it was considering well law school itself as a full-time sort of job for three years. And it's not cheap. It's not it's not I was working at the time and it was a team effort with my family certainly. Very good. Well congratulations and did you know at the time and some of these questions are triggered by the you know some members of the audience are watching this and they're intrigued you know about how somebody can can be ten years or more into a career and then all of a sudden say you know what I'm gonna do something different and you did. Yeah. And it's worked for you. And so when you decided to make that cut and go into law school did you know what part of law you wanted to focus on or did that kind of develop over time? Yes yes and no. I did have a strong idea of what I wanted to do but you understand when you're beginning in a career things change. I did want to do civil litigation which is what I'm doing now. However I also wanted to get courtroom experience trial room experience which often civil civil litigation does not give you because cases tend to settle out of court before they go to trial. That's usually the preferred one. Yes it's cheaper it's cheaper for the client so and that's one reason why I went to the prosecutor's office because it gave me the trial experience and the courtroom experience that I wanted. So before I joined Schlakito I had done close to a hundred trials actually. That's a good experience so I mean it helps well let me ask you that question does that help you in your negotiating skills? I mean is there a lot of negotiating involved? There's a lot of negotiating and the variables in the variables in that that take place during a civil settlement negotiation are actually quite different than those on the criminal side. The criminal side is like here's what the fine is and here's how here's how long the jail sentence is gonna be the prison sentence. It's just that's it and it's you know there it sounds almost like the tax code. Yeah and civil side is much more nuanced there's much a greater number of variables going on and so just it's really different very very different. Very good but that's and you did different number of years and then what what triggered you to leave the prosecutor's office to go into private practice? So I don't know if Matt knows this part of the story but I had actually been having one eye on the firm for about two years and then what attracted you to the firm? So there's I look at work as being in four quadrants there's like good people doing good work good people doing bad work bad people doing bad work and like bad people who just like randomly happen to do good work. You're starting to sound like an attorney. Yeah and so the firm I'm at now I can confidently say it's amazing because it's good people doing good work and that's for me in my experience it's a very rare combination. Well let's take a quick break and we're gonna come back in about one minute I want to just follow on to that question a little bit about how that process worked you know maybe from both of your perspectives on how you identified the firm and how did you go through the process of landing that that opportunity. But this is business in Hawaii Reg Baker we're gonna be taking a quick 60 second break and we'll be right back. I'm going to the game and it's gonna be great early arriving for a little tailgate. I usually drink but won't be drinking today because I'm the designated driver and that's okay. It's nice to be the guy that keeps his friends in line keeps him from drinking too much so we can have a great time. A little responsibility can go a long way because it's all about having fun on game day. I'm Winston Welch and every other Monday at 3 p.m. you can join me at Out and About a show where we explore a variety of topics, organizations, events and the people who fuel them in our city, state, country and world so please join us every other Monday at 3 and we'll see you then. Welcome back. This is Reg Baker, business in Hawaii. We're talking with a couple attorneys today and talking about the process of going to law school and selecting a firm, getting hired and some of the different areas of law that's practiced in this firm and by the individuals. And there's a lot of business, a lot of commercial connection to this. And one of the trick questions I'm gonna ask them towards the end of the show is how, what would their advice be in having a company come to them for legal support? You know, if they needed some help, how do you work with an attorney? What's the secret of working with an attorney? And there's a lot of people out there that think they need an attorney but they're not quite sure exactly how to approach it. And so I'm gonna leave them with that thought there for a minute. We'll come back in a few minutes and talk about that. But Tony, you were talking a little bit about you kind of had identified the firm that you wanted to join with and you were impressed with the type of practitioners that they had there and that was a group that you wanted to affiliate with. So how did it go from there? Did you reach out to them directly or did Matt reach out to you or how did that all happen? I didn't know Matt until I joined the firm. But I did know one of the name partners of the firm, Carl Schlag. I knew Carl for approximately two years before I joined the firm and I knew the firm first through Carl. Very good. And Matt, what is the process when somebody approaches a firm or there's maybe another one of the partners have an interest in bringing in somebody. What's the process? Do they go through an interview, a sequence of interviews or do they talk? How does that work? First the partners or members of the firm would gather and we do have monthly meetings. We talk about needs of the firm and in Tony's particular case there was a need for assistance in the litigation department. Our then sole litigator was Derek Kobayashi, our litigation partner. We subsequently added another litigation partner named Reggie Niwao. But Derek was just overwhelmed and he needed help and he needed help fast. So one of the partners had recommended Tony and we of course scrutinized his resume very closely and we brought him in for interviews. I'm going to interrupt three interviews.  Well they may not be written tests but you probably asked some pretty interesting questions to see what kind of response he did get. Yeah, I know with Tony I think the things that stood out were his ability to write well and that's definitely helpful when you're doing a lot of paperwork and pleadings. Well communication, that's always key to almost any profession. That's good. I remember one of the questions I was asked or one of the tests I was given was, you know, adding up a long line of numbers. Like the phone book. Well it was a big long line and they wanted to know if you could do it without looking. And so the question is, you know, add up these numbers and tell me what it is. Back in the old days to pass the test. The CPA test, which you couldn't use a calculator back in the old days. No, you weren't allowed to use it. It was all longhand. But the answer was, what do you want it to be? What total are you looking for? Right, right. Now that would have passed before, but now that gets you in jail. So you can't do that anymore. But yeah, there's always little trick questions that are thrown at you. Did you have any? Do you have any experience with a trick question somebody may have asked? No, sorry. Nothing that you're willing to disco. I think that is actually the more accurate answer. No, but the interviewing process is always fun and it's always very intimidating. You know, you get some younger people. Now you were fortunate because you had a few years under your belt. But there's some young people that graduate from law school and sometimes going through the interviewing process can be an intimidating process. Any thoughts and advice on how a young professional just getting into law school might approach that process? I think a couple of things that I would say is, number one, do your homework about where you want to work, if it's in a law firm, something medium or large sized, or if it's with a solo practitioner, or if you want to work with the government, for example. So think about what you want to do, do your research, and then really focus on making sure there's a good fit. And in my experience, that really means a lot. And I'm speaking from what I've heard people in hiring positions say. So sometimes it's not so much about grades or it's not about maybe other things you've done. It's about how well you fit with the people that you'll be working with 12 hours a day. And that fit is very important because you want people to be able to hit the ground running. You don't want to spend a lot of time retraining or reorienting. You want people to come in with the skill sets you're looking for so they can be put to work right away. Sorry, but they need to start generating revenue too. It's a business, so that's good. And it's always good to know, I guess, when you're talking to a firm or a company, a little bit about them so you can determine from the outset where that fit might be. That's good. Now, the same can be said for a business looking to get legal support, legal help from a firm. Is it the same type of research needs to be done? Yeah, I think with respect to a business, you have a multitude of different types of businesses. I mean, you have the very sophisticated businesses who would have an in-house counsel who would have great familiarity with the different law firms in town and lawyers and their expertise and areas of practice. Those are the... you have to be on your toes to pass scrutiny in order to get into the door for a potential talk story to see whether or not it's a good fit. And you're going to be competing with other attorneys in town who are known to be the tops in that area of expertise. And that's a dog-and-pony show. And then at the opposite end of the spectrum are just ordinary people with their ordinary problems that need an attorney. And a lot of times those are situations where it's a friend or a relative or a friend of a friend and they just come to you and say, hey, I got this issue where my neighbor and I are having a dispute about the fence. And we do. And you have a wide spectrum and all different kinds of problems in between. And I guess sometimes it's surprising how easily these things can be resolved. Maybe just a quick phone call and things can be addressed. And they just don't... so many people are adverse to any type of confrontation. And it gets interesting. Do you agree with that? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely right. When Tony gets involved, it's typically when things have gone south. And so the two parties had an agreement. And they both contractually are bound by this agreement. But one party disagrees with what they should or should not be doing under the agreement. And now you have a dispute. And oftentimes instead of sitting down and trying to work things through or maybe they've tried that and it hasn't worked, then one party decides to file a lawsuit against the other. And I think in today's world of Internet accessibility and to be able to go online and research, there's an awful lot of templates out there that people can use. But they need to be customized to local laws and rules and regulations.  I mean, doesn't it make sense to have an attorney take a look at that to make sure that it's a good contract, that it can be enforced? I can't tell you how many times people have come to me saying, oh, I want to save money on legal fees, so I've done the drafting myself. And I'm very frank with them saying, well, it's going to cost me more to revise your agreement to make it comport with Hawaii law than to just take one of our own forms and use that. Right. No, that makes sense. And I have similar experience in the tax world doing a tax return. It would be easier for me to just process the information and do the tax return rather than take something that had already been done and try to review it to see if it was done correctly. Most of the time I have to reprocess it anyways. And I would imagine that a template contract would be very similar. I mean, you already know what compliance is or what it should be, and you've already got that built into the system. It's easy to try it out. So we shouldn't use turbo tax then?  Actually, for low-end stuff, it's okay. But I think once you file the return, it's okay. But going to a court to handle a potential dispute, I think it's much more important to have a professional involved. Right from the get-go. I mean, don't wait until it becomes a problem. It's better to make sure it's clean before you get to that point. Yeah, the sad thing is this happens quite a bit where a client will come to me and say, ah, Matt, I got this problem. I'm saying, I asked him, well, where's the agreement? And well, we just shook hands on it. And I said, oh, you do have a problem. If you had come to see me earlier and spent a little bit of money up front having a sound agreement, then you would save a lot of money on the back end. Sure. And a lot of heartache and... Yes. I mean, it can be very stressful. Yes. I've been an expert witness before, and I had to prepare and get ready for appearance. Fortunately, never had to appear. It was always settled before, which was good. It means our preparation was solid. But it's stressful. It's stressful for the people that's going to be there. It's stressful for the clients. Trying to avoid that is probably just having good contracts up front. Yes, absolutely. Very good. Tony, getting back to you a little bit. Can you describe the type of practice you're building over there?  Yes. And so most of the work I do, again, revolves around real estate. And again, that's sort of the focus of the firm, broadly speaking. And I do... Currently, I do a breach of contract cases regarding the conveyance of property or real estate. I do summary possession, what we call summary possession actions, which are normally called evictions. I do mostly plaintive sides, so I represent landlords in landlord-tenant disputes, almost without exception, corporate. We're not talking about personal landlord-tenant disputes, but corporate landlord-tenant. And then I'm working on what are called quiet title matters, where a landlord wants to clean up title. For example, where you go back in time and look at the chain of title, where we would say it's cloudy, and then you work with the court and correct those things. So those are generally where I'm working right now. Very good. We've got a couple of minutes left. And occasionally, I'll get involved in something. A client will ask me to get involved. And without going into a lot of details, sometimes there'll be a person that has a contract to have something installed. And for one reason or another, they decide they don't want to do it. In order to get out of a contractual arrangement like that, where they may have already made a deposit, they've got things done, but no work's been started. What's the best way to approach something like this to cancel that contract? Does it make sense to just get on the phone and talk to the contractor and say, I've changed my mind, give me back my deposit? Because they've got a contract there that can be enforced. Or is it best to have an attorney kind of take a look at it and kind of look at the different clauses that might be there for termination? Any thoughts on that? I think it depends on your relationship with the contractor and what the reasons are for wanting to get out of it. But in my experience, if you have a reasonable person sitting on the other side of the table, which isn't always the case, just talk to them and say, hey, the situation has changed. How do you feel about cancelling this agreement? Especially if the economy's strong, the contractor's got 100 other jobs to do. That's true. And if it's a consumer and it's a consumer protection issue, the next step is to maybe talk to the office of consumer protection and say, hey, this is the situation I'm in now. Do you think there's a chance that I can get out of this contract? And then finally, maybe go see an attorney and see what the attorney can do to help you with your problem. Refreshing response, because you don't have to just jump right into the attorney approach.  So that's great advice. Very good. Well, we're wrapping up. Really appreciate you both being on the show. It was very interesting to hear, you know, how you started your career. And then as they say, you pivoted and went in another direction and did it quite successfully. So congratulations. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Very good. Well, Matt, always good to have you on the show. Thank you very much. I look forward to the next one. My pleasure. So we'll see you in a few months. Thank you very much, Rich. Thank you. This is Business in Hawaii with Rich Baker. We're here today talking about law practice in Hawaii and one of the premier firms and two of their associates. They work with them. We've got some good advice. We're looking forward to seeing you again next week. Until then, aloha.


A little girl boarded a plane with a stranger in 2003, 15 years later something incredible happened. When you're a child, traveling alone can be scary. However, flying from one country to another alone? That s downright terrifying and for one little girl, she would be faced with a situation that she couldn't possibly comprehend. At only five years old, she was placed in the care of a complete stranger when taking an international flight. Being behind her mother in Africa and heading to the United States, she found herself having to trust a man she didn't know with her safety. You won't believe this touching story that spans two continents and one girl's incredible journey of discovery. For five-year-old Maya Hughes, international travel was a regular routine. Although she grew up in the country of Sierra Leone in West Africa with her mother Zainab, they eventually migrated to the United States in search of a better life. However, growing homesick for her family, Zainab decided to take Maya back to West Africa for an extended six-month trip in 2003. Unfortunately, the trip would have to be cut short.  According to May, it was a life or death situation and her mother knew it was in her best interest to return home. To make matters worse, Zainab still had family issues to attend to and couldn't leave with the country. Therefore, she had to make the difficult decision to purchase her daughter a one-way ticket and send her back to the states by herself. However, there was a problem with the mother's plan. Even though Maya could legally travel on her own, she couldn't on an international flight with so many different connections. What was the mother to do? Maya would need a chaperone to go with her, but would anyone be willing to help? Realizing her daughter's health was in jeopardy and with no time to waste, Zainab headed to the airport and began asking strangers if they would be her daughter's escort. The mother had no other option, even if it meant entrusting Maya's safety to someone she didn't know. Of course, the people she approached all had their reasons why they wouldn't want to look after someone's daughter. Who would want that kind of responsibility? As time began to run out, Zainab approached a gate agent and asked them to point out any passengers who were flying back to the United States. There had to be someone who would help her, right? The gate agent pointed out a solo white man standing in the corner. She revealed to the desperate mother that he was traveling alone, and he would most likely be her best option. Nervous and unsure, Maya's mother approached the man, hoping he wouldn't reject her. After asking the man for his help, he initially refused, revealing to Zainab that he was not emotionally stable enough to take care of Maya. He told my mom he was in no mental state to travel with a minor, because he had just lost his grandmother, Maya revealed on Twitter. However, the man realized the mother was desperate. Even though he didn't know her and was flying back for his grandmother's funeral, he agreed to watch over Maya. Zainab knew sending her daughter on a plane with a man she didn't know was risky, but what other choice did she have? Immediately, Zainab booked Maya on the man's flight and hastily send goodbye. She then watched the man take her daughter's hand and board the plane. It was an emotional moment for the mother, as she watched the plane take off with her only child. All of a sudden, the adrenaline kind of went away, and I realized, oh my god, I just handed my only child at the time to a complete stranger, she revealed to the Huffington Post. However, the time for regrets had passed. She had to believe the man would honor his word and keep her daughter safe. Terrified and alone, Maya began her journey with the strange man from Africa to the United States. The traveling pair would make a variety of connections, stopping in multiple countries along the way. Thankfully, the man had help when it came to his babysitting duties. After revealing his peculiar situation the flight attendants, they all pitched in on every flight to make their journey as comfortable as possible. The man and Maya even received first-class meals to make sure they were well-fed throughout their incredibly long journey. Despite being only five at the time, Maya remembers the day well and the chaos that came with it. I just remember crying a lot on the plane, she told the Huffington Post. I remember him trying to calm me down. That's all I remember, really, just him trying to calm me down on the plane. Maya also remembers the man singing to her on the flight in her native tongue of Creo. Even though she was screaming and crying, he tried to keep her calm in a tough situation. Unfortunately, the journey was simply too traumatizing for the young child to settle down. After a series of long flights, Maya and her adult companion would finally arrive at Dulles International Airport just outside of Washington D.C. Thankfully, there was a familiar face waiting for the distraught child when they arrived, her grandmother. Maya and her mother's separation would last just over a month before they were reunited back in the United States. The topic of the man who had helped them was a regular topic of conversation in their home throughout the years. For Maya, it was easy to give her mother a hard time about sending her off with a complete stranger. I always gave my mom a hard time because he was a complete stranger, and it was risky, she told BuzzFeed News. Thankfully, the man had honored his word and nothing had happened, but the situation could have ended very differently. As the years passed, both Maya and her mother questioned the identity of the man who had helped them. The story of Maya's journey was often told to family members and friends, and this eventually led Maya's cousin discovering the identity of the man who had helped her so many years prior. According to her cousin, she had heard the same type of story from one of her co-workers back in West Africa. Unfortunately, Maya didn't get much more in terms of information since she and her cousin lost touch. However, years later, that all would change. When Maya's cousin decided to visit the United States, she brought up the story again, asking Zainab, Hey Zainab, did you ever track Tom Perriello down? And I said, who's that? Then the truth was revealed. According to the cousin, Tom Perriello was a colleague of a colleague and the man who watched over Maya when she flew to the United States all those years ago. To say that both Zainab and Maya were shocked would be an understatement. So, they set out to find him and eventually discovered his email. Zainab decided to email the man and thank him for what he did for her daughter. She went into detail about the journey in case he didn't remember and expressed her everlasting gratitude for keeping her daughter safe. It was an odd email to write for the mother, and she apologized just in case she had sent it to the wrong person, but she hoped, in the end, he would appreciate her thanks. After several days of waiting, the mother received a reply from Tom who did confirm that she had the right person. In the time since he had accompanied Maya, he had gone on to have quite a successful career politics and even worked under the Obama administration as an envoy in the State Department. For Perriello, the experience bringing Maya to the United States from Africa had been like a scene out of a movie because it was so bizarre. He had just lost his grandmother, was flying home for a funeral, and then a strange woman approached him asking to take care of his child. It's an incredibly vivid memory that seems like something out of a movie. It just wasn't clear if it was a happy or a sad movie. There was some serious drama on each leg of the trip, as there should have been under the circumstances, but we worked with officials and some angels at the airlines to make sure Maya got home safely to her grandmother's care, Perriello told the media. One of the happier moments in my life was seeing Maya run into her grandmother's arms. After her mother revealed she had made contact with the man who had helped her all those years ago, Maya took to social media to describe the incredible story. My mom has been trying to find this man for 15 years. We never got his name or anything, Hughes tweeted. My mom emailed him and this man remembered everything. He said he never forgot about me or the songs he was trying to sing in Creole. He had told his family about it and everything. Maya's tweet would end up going viral as her inspirational story made waves throughout social media. Even Perriello commented on her tweet, saying he was so pleased she was shining bright in life. The two hoped to meet one day and reconnect. For Maya and her mother, meeting him would be the perfect ending. For 15 years I was looking for this ghost, Zainab said. I hope to meet with him to get the opportunity to shake his hand, hug him and thank him for having done that. Maya also knows she wouldn't be here today if it hadn't been for the man and will forever be in his debt. Thankfully, the mother and daughter got their wish and reunited with Tom in the following months. What an incredible story.