Oh, somebody just saw that was amber. Okay How are you good Beautiful day today. Yeah, no snow plowing today new So we were working at Mill River and it's on the Dark side of the park and it's all ice like sheer sheer ice What were you doing there? Really decayed large white pie and a dead sugar maple tree Seven attendees so I'm gonna let them in if everyone can mute who's not speaking that'd be great Somebody has some stuff in the back up is Kathy and someone else We have a lot of guests today Gordon, can you be the secretary today? Since Becky's not here. We'll get started in just a second All right, welcome everybody I Don't see chat in this so I won't worry about that now, but I want to get everyone's hours, but since we have a lot of guests I think we're going to jump right in with our guests Let's all introduce ourselves real quickly. I'm Henry Lappin on the chair of the committee and After you say your name past to somebody else. I'll pass it to Bennett. Hey, this is Bennett hazel Also a member of the tree committee for a little over the year. Hello to all visitors Pass it to oh, yep, Alan your go Alan snow tree warden Pass it on to I'm drawing like a Pass it on to Shoshana Shoshana. Thank you Shoshana King here also called Shona sometimes I Been hanging out with these guys since 2017. I think but but I got sworn in I think in 2018 and then having fun planting trees and whatnot and Looking forward to spring. I'll pass it to Ellen one of our new members Can hey Ellen. All right, you can try to figure that out. Let's pass it on to Julie type it into the chat. Maybe I Don't see chat on mine. Maybe I Get rid of participants They're three little dots sometimes chat is in there. Can you hear me now? Yes? Yes, my airbud. Sorry about that Yes, I was just gonna say that this is only my second meeting. I'm new to the committee, but happy to be here Julian Hi Yeah, my name is Julian Hines. I use he him pronouns. I am a new member of the committee and I will Pass it to my friend careful who I invited to our meeting today. You're not sounding either Okay, figure that out while we move on. Let's Pass it to Richard Parceletti Well, everyone I'm Richard Parceletti. I'm the Northampton City Northampton Tree Warden and also chair of the city's urban forestry commission Thank you for inviting me to the meeting Thank you for coming How about Anne Tweedy? Everybody and Tweedy Leveret resident tree lover of any town here representing the Amherst Historic Society and our really old sycamore tree Is a beaut Sarah I'll just call everyone. I'm Sarah Lawler. I'm the secretary of the Amherst Public Shade Tree Committee Gordon Gina Gordon. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I say I'm Gordon Green. I've been a member of the tree committee for a couple of years now Gina Thanks. Hi. I'm Gina Etheridge. I am an enthusiastic volunteer Not a member not an official member of the committee. Thanks Charles Yeah, I'm a guest tonight and I just figured out how to get the audio to work So here I am I'm a guest and I've come to a couple of plantings And I'm happy to be here Thank you for coming Yep How about Kathy? Hi, I'm Kathy Shane and I am also happy to be here. I'm a guest I've planted trees a few times with people. I'm also a town counselor here in Amherst and Represent the north part of Amherst district one Including several people who are on the screen Thank you for your service Yep, thank you Rana, hi, I'm Rana Erickson and I'm just a tree enthusiast That's all you have to be And I want to thank Alan Snow and his crew for cleaning up my badly behaved pine tree All right, and Mara Paul and Jenny you can introduce yourselves together In unison We are we are volunteers This is our second meeting and we did a site visit in between and looking forward to getting more of this That's Paul. I'm Paul. I'm Mara. I'm an artist and graphic designer, and I I'm a friend of trees And I'm Jenna. Hi And just for the record for the record do you share a last name or? No, we just share a house Okay And Great, thank you You all set Just one comment to Ellen before we go you joined with the The town link, but you should join with the official link next time That you get from Amber so it literally came in Just as the meeting started so okay, that's that's fine either way, but it just thank you We see if anybody else wants to join no it looks like everybody's here. All right We're gonna start with the guests as we usually do and One of the things about our meetings is they're somewhat informal and please feel free to either raise your hand or just speak up If you want to comment or have questioned at any time don't be shy So I'm not sure who to start with but Rich and Kathy are you in any hurry at all? Okay, so let's introduce Ann Tweedy and explain what Why how you got interested in us? sure So I am representing the Amherst history museum and we are looking at the structure It's a very old house and we are trying to figure out ways to Deal with the age of the house and some of the hazards of the house and we had one of the fire Crew come through and do an evaluation on potential dangers to the structure and the old tree the sycamore tree Was definitely considered something to keep an eye on in his opinion so Alan snow very graciously met me to take a look at the tree and Encouraged our board to think about potentially applying for a grant through the DCR I believe and it's for a heritage tree grant And I think that that tree does qualify it was planted Anywhere between 1750 and 1790. They're not quite sure it was one of two trees planted to sycamore trees The bride and groom tree as it was known and the bride tree fell I think during the 38 hurricane or potentially after that so there's just one tree left and it really is magnificent and We want to be sure that we can preserve it and while keeping the house safe So I'm here to kind of ask your opinion on on how we should proceed well, I think saving it is crucial and Whatever we can do we can help I think really applying for that grant is probably a great idea to get a Tree service in cabling or whatever needs to be done, but that would be the first step We don't have money. It's not technically a street tree. So it's not under our jurisdiction Okay, I Can I add a few yes, of course So when these are matching grants to the DCR so Volunteer time, you know private fundraising things like that go towards a match for the grant so The history committee can help through through fundraising events or labor to help You know match the grant. So this this a fair amount of the shape you can do to help post size it raise awareness The grant actually needs to be filed by the town the application In support of it And I think the the grant round Is in the fall so we have some time to we have some time to plan I would also just like to say that Molly Freiliker is the community action forester with Massachusetts DCR and her office is right near UMass campus and she's super helpful So if you know you wanted to or our committee could reach out to her for any guidance about the grants I know that's one of the things that the DCR is really trying to get Their communities to take more advantage of these opportunities. So she could be a potential resource to reach out to as well I'll send you I'll send you her email address Okay So with the um, I mean I don't know if the committee wants to have a motion or Or discuss, you know Now or at the next meeting at some point, you know an official Vote on participating and committing to making this happen Yeah, I think we have a pretty full agenda tonight, so it may be better to wait but um I think it's going to be pretty easy for us to endorse it and we could write a letter of support for the application That would be wonderful and I can bring that back to our board because we just brought on new members And our meeting is next week so I can kind of share what I've learned tonight and say that This is this looks like a path that the public tree Patriot committee would like to help us with and that would be great great Thank you. Yeah Anybody I love that tree. I think it's like it's got to be one of the oldest Sycamores in town. I measured it at 201 inches around circumference And it beat all the other sycamores that I've measured so far except for the one that's like it's a double So but that one's bigger, but it's it's a double. So I think actually that the that that one's actually older Well, yeah, they don't know it's seven. I have the book here. It's like they don't know whether it was 1750 or 1790 But it is old old old And it's beautiful and still living and healthy and we want to keep it So thank you tree loved by the community. Yeah and I'm sure Kathy the Town council would be in support of anything we can do to help it Yes, and you know the the council's role in this is if you've got allen working on how to get the grant and we don't get directly involved You know, we're not needed for that. But um, yes Thank you Great All right Charles Yes, thank you Ann Thank you guys Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome to stay or if you need to go. That's fine. Let's move on to Kathy next So I'm Henry. I am mainly here because you invited me um, and you said would I join one of your meetings and I Love when you start going out to dig and put trees in I will be an eager volunteer to be doing that I I found it great even in the rain in the mud and people showing me Why my trees die because when I plant them I've been doing it wrong forever So so you had a purpose for inviting me or you just wanted me to sit in on the meeting Um, it's both. Um, we are working on a couple of things Working on a significant tree ordinance Which would give extra protection to trees in town Even on private property that are larger than a certain size that we have not defined yet That's one of the reasons Rich is here today From Northampton because they have one of those ordinances And we're also hoping to get at some point get a line item in the town budget for new trees Now that the $600,000 bond issue has been used up We don't have You know other than fundraising. We don't have a way to support planting new trees We do have the tree gift fund which gets money when people cut down trees, but that doesn't go very far so Um, I would be happy to talk to you more about the ordinance, you know for line items Other than directly speaking to the town manager to say put it in somewhere, you know, again, we are We're in this sort of high level Um making sure there's enough money and then down at the town staff level people are setting priorities, but The ordinance alone will draw people's attention to the fact that you no longer have a line item budget for this You know people are probably not aware of it You know just um one of the times, you know on on the goodwill this Creates in the community when we were um, I think summer street Gordon was there that day and we were planting a tree these young College kids came out and they said you're giving us a tree and you know, how do we take care of it? And oh para our very own, you know, it was right by their sidewalk there They were so delighted that people and they said can we dig can we help? So it's it's uh What you're doing Builds community in a way. I think that's pretty important Okay, should I speak now a little bit about the line item thing? Sure um, I emailed paul bachmann saying that we needed a line item for 40 000 and What is our best procedure asking him what our best procedure is for making that happen? And he never got back to me So Like There's been other things that I've contacted him about that are like like fluffy Nonsense things that he's gotten back to me right away with so I was surprised that he didn't get back to me at all About this because it seemed like a little more um Like official, you know like important So I don't know if that's his way of of you know being like, okay, this isn't something I'm Even interested in taking on or or if it's something that I need to Prod about or take at another angle like go in. I don't know. I can't go in right because of the the wrong but I have two suggestions. Um, you know one I know It's probably easier for him to respond to the simple thing, you know, when you say the light fluffy You know, I can tell you go here or thank you very much when you asking him to actually do something commit to it He's got this uh, particularly under covet. They've described one day around the vaccines, you know 150 phone calls a day that are You know, they're juggling both putting the whole budget together but also this, you know When am I going to get my shot you ran out of shots, but if you um Henry can I'm I'm easy to find it's my last name then see at amherst mass at amherst ma.gov If you send me it, I can directly request it and say this is a You know coming through, you know, just bring it to his attention. He usually will at least acknowledge See and tell me that there's there's no way or it's in the pot or you know Where they are because they are putting the budgets together right now department by department And next week what we were told what we've been told I'm on the finance committee And so we should get this news next week, but he said last night Yeah, today's tuesday last night at the council meeting that uh revenues are coming in a bit better than they had expected so the budget Doesn't mean we're flush. It may mean the budget is not quite as tight as they thought three months ago So, you know partly we were tightening everybody's belt. You've probably seen what the school elementary and regional schools are To live within the budget that they were given they were saying they need to do layoffs But in any case if you Send it through me. I will bring it to his attention and ask him to get back to you And he usually does respond when I send him something like this Okay, and um allen would that go under your department that budget? Yeah, so the um the budget request Kind of starts, you know from my division into the dbw budget and and then Guilford will you know work it into the dbw budget and then request it you know up through the uh budgeting process so Um, it's good. It's good that the time manager knows that we need it. Um But uh the process is in the works. It's you know, we'll see if it makes it Yeah, that's what I said, you know, it is it's a round of we We don't get the council doesn't get the budget until may but it's due on may 1st You know, um, so this has been around as allen will know. I mean since the fall of people doing requests and trying to figure out how to live within um the overall cap of of the town services budget so I can at least You know do my best to draw attention to it Okay, henry could you um get me Kathy's email so that I could Forward her what I sent already to paul so she can analyze that And then take the next step from there Great. Yes, I'll do that All right. Thanks All right, thanks, and um Let's move on to the significant tree ordinance and talk with rich parcelletti. Is he still here? This picture's gone, but there he is. Well, I'm here. Yep So, uh, sarah, do you want to lead this part of the meeting? All right, um We were approached In 2019 By two grad students at umas who were interested in helping us develop a significant tree ordinance And that was one of the things that really kind of kick started this project We've been looking to the north hampton tree ordinance as a major precedent being so close in our You know towns being relatively similar Um, and we have drafted a significant tree ordinance, uh, but we're working out some major Pillars of the significant tree ordinance namely what size the trees are that would be protected and what the jurisdiction of this ordinance would be so, um We were just interested in hearing about Your experience what's worked in north hampton what you think might Be translatable to the town of amherst knowing, you know, kind of the differences between the towns And you know, like kind of lessons you've learned along the way You know, maybe things that you wish you'd known in retrospect Or any advice you could offer on that front, uh, and we can get more into more specifics too. Um We are thinking currently about doing a public poll just to gauge community interest and support of this piece of legislation So it doesn't seem like we're imposing something. We really would like it to be community supported But we're trying to kind of walk this line of You know making it available to the public but not make creating a total free for all we want it to be, you know, relatively Streamlined and and accessible But something that could also be feasible and easily passed by the the council when we go to to bring it into action So Was that a good summary of where we are? Anyone have anything to add or do you have any major questions? I think I might have left out No, uh, allen was kind enough to send me a um a draft copy. So I actually got to take a look at it Oh, that's great So I I mean I have a few questions. I think before I can answer the question. So I have a couple of questions. So A little bit of background. So first of all, Northampton significant tree ordinance actually was drafted not by Tree warden at the time because there wasn't one it was and it was not drafted by our urban forestry commission It was actually drafted by two city counselors that worked with the city's planning and sustainability department So the significant tree ordinance was actually Was the first piece of legislation Related to trees that at the time that Tree commission reviewed and I was not a member of the commission at the time. However, I was the tree warden but the that The main body of the ordinance was drafted by two city counselors and actually legislated so typically Our Northampton form of government is obviously a little different. We have a mayor and a city council So we have an executive branch The our significant tree ordinance was not sponsored by the executive branch. It was sponsored and passed by multiple counselors so So with that said Just a couple of questions and I'm just I Anyone can shout out and give me an answer. So I just saw my understanding in Amherst the the authority of the the tree committee versus the authority of the Tree warden can someone explain to me what the difference is between the two and how they're linked I can do that unless another committee member wants to Okay, don't I'll answer once I don't mind doing it. Uh, we're a a advisory committee to the tree warden So we only our our purview is street trees although we're expanding Not what we have jurisdiction over but we're expanding our our efforts to include trees in parks and trees Now in in people's yards because we feel the urban forestry as a whole is very important We advise if there's a someone wants to cut down a street tree There's a hearing we do a site visit and a hearing and we make a decision as the tree committee and that Goes to Alan and he then makes the decision whether to accept it or to To cut down the tree So up till now we've had no jurisdiction over non street trees non trees within the public right of way Okay, so so presently the there's no ordinance in Amherst on the books that actually governs Private trees on private property. Correct. You're mainly enforcing mgl 87 on public shade trees Um in the right way Yes, that's national general law 87, which is the the tree ordinance for the state You know the tree whatever laws for the state may ask another question when Presently when a developer or an applicant comes forward to your planning board and again, I'm just I don't know the answer to this So I need to ask this. Um, is there any um Jurisdiction that the planning board has over the actual site plan review in essence of what type of trees get planted in in a project Or how many trees are allowed to take down in a project? Is there any kind of by-law or town ordinance that exists that governs that presently I'll let Alan talk to this one with somebody else has knowledge Yeah, so I mean they do have the ability to uh request sort of species and locations you know in their view process I I'm not really sure if they can say how many trees you can cut down on your property or not Or if there's like a minimal lot coverage. Actually, I really don't know the answer to that on the planning board Okay, the reason I'm asking these questions is because I'm just trying to establish their role and authority and just so I can understand the ordinance better of what What you know what the tree warden does versus what the tree committee does versus what the planning board does and I'm I'm you know speaking from North my experience in North Hampton. So this is why I'm asking these questions because it's very defined So one of the things that um, I read by the way, I really like this draft. I I I like it a lot I don't necessarily know if I could actually go to my own City council and ask them to protect trees on private property I think our city solicitor probably would not look favorably On me or you know, but this is this is good. This is a good step in the right direction Because everywhere you go in North Hampton, I'm sure in Amherst and in many other communities in Massachusetts You just constantly see people cutting trees down in the in their backyards for really what seems to be absolutely no reason and I really I don't know if it's fear You just they they don't like the way it looks any longer. They don't they don't want to shade They're putting up solar panels So there's a lot of competition in private backyards in regards to Large mature trees which really provide the greatest benefit of the existing canopy in any community A lot of people don't like the mess the leaves the knots, etc. Yeah Yeah, that doesn't even come to my mind. I'm just And I don't even look at it as a mess because actually it's really adding, uh, you know Bible nutrients to the soil and it's just a cycle. So So, I mean, I don't know if you have Yeah, I don't know if you have like specific questions For me that you'd like or do you just want me to ramble on about what I think about the ordinance But I have a few questions on the one is Um, you do have a significant tree ordinance that affects people's backyards, don't you? No, we no. Well, yes and no Well, this is a two-part answer. So in north hampton the significant tree ordinance is only triggered Um, it's actually significant tree ordinance protects trees that are above 20 inches in diameter of breast height Only on projects that actually go in front of the city's planning board on the site planning review and special permit So trees on and people's backyards that are not that are not regulated or what I would consider by right Are not regulated by the city. So anyone in north hampton can cut a tree down That's in their backyard no matter what size it is As soon as you apply the zoning framework to a project That reaches a certain criteria that triggers the significant tree ordinance Then that's when this becomes triggered Okay, myra paul and jenna one of you has a question Um, I jenna I I'm when I was looking over the tree ordinance. I don't know if I have the same one that you're all looking at It's a sort of page um I saw that part of course about backyards, etc And I I just was surprised because I didn't think there would be any legal jurisdiction Over private trees. I would certainly understand when a contractor is coming in and they're going in front of the planning board That that might give some leverage, but in fact Is there any legality behind being able to deal with trees on private property? Sarah I mean What do you mean legality? The I mean the the point of the ordinance would give this the town the authority to say You can't cut that down unless you fulfill these certain requirements. So this would become that authority in terms of legality um I guess what I'm what I'm asking is my understanding is that If I were to have a tree on my private property that no one could tell me that I either had a grower tree This is I mean, I'd love to have some input to people so that they did not cut down trees But I can't imagine a scenario scenario in which it would be legal for the City to create an ordinance of the town that said No, you can't cut down trees without our permission or that you have to put on trees Because we've told you to so I'm just confused about the whole idea that we could go there And let me just say one thing and then pass it back to you guys There are towns that have significant tree ordinances like ours So you can in fact do that in Massachusetts I thought like the conservation committee, you know forbids cutting down trees for endangered species And wetlands and things like that. So I don't know if there's any precedent there You go ahead Um, I I would just think that there would have to be I I don't know what the order is with the defined on how people feel I would think it would have to be something in an education process about What it would mean to people to have the town Have some kind of jurisdiction so so that people feel more friendly about it like it would be in in the investment in the beneficence of the town and it would look good and You know, I I don't I think people tend to be you know, sort of private property is Those are all very good questions because I've asked our own city solicitor about the validity of Some of the ordinances that are in massachusetts that exist that regulate private trees on private property and His analogy to to me Explaining it to me was basically said if if I had a car in my own driveway And I wanted to take I wanted to break the car windshield No one can tell me that I can't break the car windshield I own the car. It's in my driveway It's my right to break the windshield As soon as I go in next door and break someone else's windshield, of course, that's a different story I know it's a very silly analogy, but it actually kind of puts it really in perspective It is a very um, it will be very I think our solicitor found it to be very challenging And very difficult to enforce trying to regulate Trees on private property through a local ordinance that was not Tied into a zoning ordinance So the key is is that the zoning, you know, the planning board is the only other legislative body in north hampton other than the city council It can actually legislate that actually has our in a sense So the significant tree ordinance north hampton is triggered and managed by the planning board And as my role is the tree warden, I'm part of that operational management. So I come during the project I read the arborist report that the applicant hires that Basically allows You know determines which trees are actually significant which trees are not significant which trees are Director of the assistant director of planning sustainability to go over all the documentation and you know, we make Recommendations to the applicant And then that's really how the significant tree ordinance works in north hampton. So there's there's the tree warden I don't have any power over any trees on private property so And it's and in north hampton It's been a little bit of a struggle because you have read the daly hampshire gazette the last few at least last weekend there was multiple letters to the editor About the the density zoning that the city has allowed since about 2015 has changed the way that developers or individuals are able to actually buy Lots that were Not that were originally not conforming so you can buy a building lot now You have the proper frontage You can actually divide the lot into two different lots and put you know up to an 1800 square foot house on the lot and remove the remove the trees on the lot and there's no You know, there's no zoning enforcement. There's no ordinance that stops anyone from doing that So it's it's been it's really come to the forefront that You know having a local ordinance that actually protects trees on Municipal property plus private property is is you know Is is important to look at but the question is how do you actually physically? Legally enforce it and how do you prevent? Your town or any other town from or shouldn't in from liability from from People actually pushing back on the ordinance once it's adopted So that's the problem with With the ordinance that I see that in Northampton anyways, that was my take from our city solicitor So this ordinance would is um, I think is Would be great, but the question is how do you actually make it enforceable Without putting the town at you know at a level of liability that's I guess not acceptable That's just one comment I have on um the other If I can just interrupt uh, Kathy maybe uh, since we're starting to deal with zoning and Amherst, maybe this is something to get into the new zoning Especially as people are opposed to some of the larger buildings in town It seems to be The way we get more density in town, but maybe protecting some trees and things like that can You know mitigate some of the effects of that so You know, I just a response on the question, you know, if something like this Came up to the council whatever the council might think about it The first thing the town would do is the legality question and the town council council Would weigh in on The issue that was raised on uh, does the do we have any jurisdiction? Over a homeowner in the trees on their land. Um, that would be a pretty quick and our town council always looks at the risk side And says wouldn't do it if there's any risks to the town, you know, I mean that's they weigh in it I mean protecting the town so You know, it would be a different issue The issue of when a developer is coming in if there are some definition, you know, if we don't have it in now of trees I don't know what the response would be on that, but we are definitely when Richard was just saying A zoning is And that northampton has made the news has allowed denser development of people's lots One of the things that goes are trees and there is a push to allow those Zoning changes here in amherst if they haven't gone very far yet, but there's a push So you know Yes, I think some of the people who would like to slow that down would like A piece that is protecting trees It's not clear yet Whether there is a majority on enough people on the council who want to slow it down. So I'm just trying to you know Be carefully in my choice of words on this, you know, so But but but big people would There's all, you know, they're even talking about the north commons I know alan you got involved with what are we going to do about the drainage in the north commons And which of the trees can be saved and which are Causing part of the problem with drainage And people really love the trees on the north commons, you know, I'm trying to think of how to save them So so I can't give you a good answer right now on a receptivity to this But I could certainly see depending on the piece of land, you know, we don't have that much open land left That can be developed. So this is more taking A place that has a house on it and saying now you can put an apartment building on it Or you can put 10 townhouses on it or you can put you can put more on the same piece of land So that is a long-winded answer saying I don't really know How receptive It would be and the first thing would be how far can it go on the legal question, you know on Beyond just the initial developer coming in And developing the piece of land Thank you. I do want to recognize mara paul and jen again, but first Sarah have you done research on which towns have passed it? Not anything particularly robust like I don't know like I'm just thinking, you know, based on the conversation we're having it'd be nice to have A chart or a map that shows like these are all the towns where this is Been passed that they have legislation for private land and these are the towns where they don't and I don't have anything like that Um, you know, I have I've done research on various case studies, but they're just, you know, kind of isolated case studies So I think, you know finding something that's more statewide would be appropriate Um, so I think, you know, that'd be a good step and I I don't have that information Okay, thanks. So, uh, yeah Sorry, Henry. Sarah. I do want to share I have an email that has all the links embedded for the different ordinances that municipalities or towns Have that are protecting. I can share that with you if you send me an email. I'm not sure that I have your email address So You want to shoot me an email? I can share that with you Okay, that would be great. Thank you Awesome. Just another way of like looking at this. I'm thinking like Like like, you know, the image of the the windshield right smashing the windshield in your own driveway It would seem like Like sure that is like tackling it as far as destruction But what about tackling it in the way of preservation because like you're not allowed to dump whatever you want on your land You know, you can't just you know, say, hey, I want to put like nuclear waste in my backyard And you know, the neighborhood might disapprove of that so maybe there's a way of Looking at through a lens of that that would um That would gain us a little more of a heal into getting this Sort of protection in place All right, uh, I guess it's um, Lara go ahead Oh, yeah, sorry It looks like you're muted out there. Yeah, I'm wondering if if there's no way around the legal Problem of not being able to do it if you could do it something that's more like an incentive maybe some kind of tax of break if you kept trees or I don't know if that's like a hot button thing but an incentive to rather than a punishment And I also would like to know how Ellen you work as the tree warden now When when people cut down trees, you do automatically go out and Talk to them or could you do something where people at least had to consult before? cutting down trees or smashing the windshield Yeah I um, you know someone's cutting a tree down on their private property I have no authority to You know do anything there. I mean I can talk to them Generally, don't you know unless they approach me I just deal with trees on public in public ways Could you have some kind of ordinance where You had to just consult not not that it would be binding in any way, but no, it's the same problem Same problem same problem Now, I also wonder there's a lot sort of a liability question that keeps circulating through my head, which is You have a homeowner who has a large tree next to their house. They're nervous about it You know people do get nervous about big trees next to their houses. So they want to cut it down The ordinance is in place and says no, we're not going to cut it down It's too much of it And then a big windstorm comes along three weeks later and tree comes down and smashes in the big person's house Is there now liability to the town? For having denied them the right to cut down the tree Which has been damaged their house. It's just it's a very hypothetical, but it's it circulates in my head Gordon Sorry, it's a slightly different topic. Alan. Do you want to finish it? Well, I just want to say so Yes, so that's a big concern Even with public shade trees. We did we just had in that last windstorm A tree fell that um, I did not cut down because it was perfectly healthy It ended up totaling somebody's car Um in the windstorm, but again, there was nothing physically wrong with the tree There was just too much wind for it and there was never green and it failed boots and all So, you know, it's the You know trying to take Um control over private trees as a significant layer of liability to the town In the past, I mean I do I I love the idea and the goal of the ordinance And you know in the past meetings, I've recommended that we look at possibly, you know village centers Uh that have been designated around town or the business improvement district That we look at trying to preserve trees, you know in those areas working through The planning board possibly It starts I'll I'll so to piggyback what alan said I think there's also an operational cost to this ordinance that has to be vetted as well So if you were to pass this ordinance as exist as it exists today You know, there would be an operational cost for example to alan's time You know alan would actually have to deal with the individual landowner who wants to remove the trees There's a permitting process I'm sure it probably would be electronic, but alan still needs to Review the permitting review the permit Maybe do an inspection of the tree himself to better understand why the resident wants to cut it down Um, and then, you know, there has to be a decision made and then yes, there is definitely a degree of concern You know and I've gotten Accidentally involved in private tree matters in north hampton a few times and it is not has it's not been It didn't go very well So I don't make any comments about private trees any longer to anyone unfortunately, so I've learned my lesson But I think it would also Put alan or whoever is amherst tree warden in the future into some kind of a position that might be difficult um And actually operation difficult to manage to a certain degree Because you obviously have if you're going to have these all the significant trees you're going to you're going to want people to Email you or, you know, actually log their tree into some database And then those, you know, they have to be managed to a certain degree. So there's a level of management that goes on with them um And then, you know, the other thing too is that I think you you have to have a clear line of like delineation operationally Who is really going to be responsible for? Because in a couple places in the ordinance, you know, there's there is a little cross It's a little confusing to me who actually is responsible for for what because that's why I asked those questions in the beginning um you know North Hampton's urban forestry commission doesn't get involved in anything that has to do with the actual management of the ordinances they actually are the ones that help craft them They recommend them to the mayor or to the city council and then they're off the operational aspect of the ordinance North Hampton is managed by planning and sustainability and by the tree warden So that's also just something to think about the the extra layer of regulation that you may create While well intended may create an operational issue on the on the ground That cost dollars to the town to to manage That makes sense Yeah All right, um does anyone Yeah, go ahead good. Yeah, I just had a question. Does anybody know um Anything about the consulate because I know like I only know this because I almost bought a house that was on land That was protected because of an endangered species And anything beyond a couple of feet from the house.  You're not even allowed to like apply a tool to any any plants at all And I think a lot of that comes under the state conservation regulations, but From talking to the town conservation commission sounded like there were also local Uh rules and I don't know enough about the the laws to say anything But it sounded like there were also local Regulations that restricted what you could do to the trees within a distance to uh wetland And that it was the it was up to the towns to implement the state Laws and the towns had sometimes more strict. So I'm just wondering if the conservation commission might have an Approach to this where if the town decided that they wanted to preserve significant trees If if that could go under a town conservation You know umbrella rather than tree warden If that makes any sense Yeah Well, I think we should probably move on that I want to take up too much of Rich's time and Kathy, uh, you're welcome to stay but that's mainly why we wanted you here Can I just have one second to show Richard something? Yeah So like maybe was it last year or two years ago? Maybe two years ago. I I branched out to Do some planting with the the north hampton tree committee And we dug up a lot of clay and I was like, I'm gonna make some pottery out of this clay And so here it is. This is pottery that I made Out of the clay that I dug up from the the tree committee's planting over there north hampton. Yeah, it was on Earl street That's one of them. I made a few things I thought you might get a kick out of that. Thank you Yeah Yeah, thank you so much to both of you for coming. I really appreciate it Thank you for coming Thank you for providing us Yeah, thank you. It was nice and I'm willing, you know, I'm willing to Communicate again or I can respond by email to some of my comments if you're interested on the on the draft if you like I can send them to allen Just some of my thoughts and comments Yeah, that that would be great. Um Just we really appreciate everyone's input on this is a tricky situation We're trying to figure out the best way to do some version of this concept So, um, it's really helpful just to have everybody's input and thoughts and thank you Richard in particular. So I would be really great to to get your notes Yeah, I think I think, um This just points to the fact that we need even more education about the importance of trees and the significance of an urban forest in You know towns as forests out of towns are being destroyed you know and as climate's changing I think, uh I think if we're ever going to get somewhere we have to start looking at these issues and figure out ways to protect more trees so Yeah So thank you all I am going to leave but um, this has sparked a lot of thoughts. So thank you Thank you very much Kathy and Richard Thanks a lot All right, so I'm going to uh share the agenda. We're Well, not exactly behind schedule, but we're uh We took a lot of time for that which I really think is great. So I will share my screen with the agenda um And why don't people let me see agenda right here Okay, can you all see that? Yep. Okay. So, um Can we approve the February minutes? Fine to me Okay So all in favor, okay So that has passed without any changes um Anybody have anything else to say or should we move to the next part of the agenda which I've just lost? Where is it? Uh, here it is. Okay Oh and um I didn't get hours from some of you for last month But if everyone at the end of this meeting or even right now could send me an email with your hours I'll put it on the list That'd be great Including uh non official members we count hours so that the end of the year we can Put it in our report to the tree city usa when we apply for another year of being a tree city So please do send me the hours everyone let's see And we'll move on to committee reports, um I received a hundred dollar donation check from um julian's dad To the gift tree fund Alan should I send that check to you or should I send it directly to the town? um send it to me and it'll go through um the dbw up to um The town, okay, I'll drop it by you or um, yeah And then sarah, um, I'll get you the address You you send out the thank you notes or to somebody else do that I should show them do that Wait, what I was just sending you my my hours. Hold on. Okay Well, we got a hundred dollar donation So do you are you the one that sends out the thank you notes? I have not I do have some thank you notes Yes, I do. Okay Nani, Nani gave me some thank you notes So let me write down who I'm sending things to I'll send you an email with that info Oh, okay. All right. Good. And then so sarah you should see a hundred dollars coming into the account at some point all right, um We don't have to go out of order with the reports, but It's not I'll keep a lookout for it No, no, I the check is here. So You won't see a film. Yeah, I'll keep an eye Okay, do you want to give your report? Go ahead. Um, the balance is unchanged From last meeting in february. Uh, it's still 23,252 and 75 cents All right, good and um other news from me is I've contacted some people on glendale road who are excited about our planting in the spring It's been pretty quiet for the most part, but uh We are getting a few emails and questions here and there and then Shoshona, you mentioned the boltwood plaza development Yeah, and just got money that didn't include trees. So Right, won't you ask alan about that now? Yeah, they got um a grant to redo the The boltwood walk to make it good for senior citizens and pedestrians back there to make it safer and more welcoming for like community and whatnot it talks about like some stairs and Some seeding and stuff like that, but it doesn't talk about trees whatsoever And um, I was wondering if we wanted to make a statement about that Alan is there any effect on trees or? um I don't really know much about this. It's I didn't You know, it was um in process until I saw it in the paper um It's not a public way So I'm not no There's no requirement to inform me on that. We do maintain the parking garage area So I did ask and for what I understand a lot of it has to do with Getting access Um to the lower level of the johnby's anti medical facility there um And uh, you know improving some sidewalks and things Around the banks community centers what I've been told but I don't I don't really know the scope of work on it I do know the stairs. I believe they're talking about Um, and if they're going to put in a ramp, they're probably going to cut down some trees To you know make the ramp work, but uh, there's no reason why they couldn't plant more trees Once that's done Should we get involved now with the idea of planting trees there or should we just wait and then afterwards we can do a planting um I guess you could Put it in a request to see if you know, they they plan on I've never I haven't seen a plan. I haven't seen a design I don't I don't know You know, they may have new trees um Going in or maybe they're going to try to do it without cutting any trees down so Offering offering to plant trees is always a good thing I don't know anything about this project either, but I would just say reaching out now Just the more that we can make people aware that we're Active in town and caring about trees and getting people thinking about trees early on in the planning process instead of retroactively Would be great. So even if nothing comes of it just I think just reaching out and saying anything about We would like to do a planting or are you keeping any trees or just asking those questions would be a good move so I I'm in support of doing some sort of outreach now even if it's not a Formal letter or meeting or anything like that. Just something casual would be Better than just to make people think about it Yeah, yeah, just so that it's you know, they're You know, it develops the habit of thinking about trees in your plans of city design. Yeah, exactly Shoshana, do you want to research who's leading this project and talk to them? Okay I'll do that I could reach out to the facilities director to the town who's probably Be the person to talk to What's their name? He's new. I honestly, I don't remember his name. I apologize. He's relatively new. I haven't really I think I've met him in passing once Okay Gordon, how are you doing on minutes by the way? Can I find this facilities director's name in the town website you think I would think so. Yes All right Gordon How are you doing with the minutes fine? Okay. Good. Yeah all right, um And then uh, Bennett you had mentioned uh, you had heard from the amherst high school environmental action club about tree What's it tree plenish? Yes, um, they um, they reached out to me through another Um, uh, then you it was just kind of a lucky combination of things, but um, they were asking for publicity for this push that they have for, um Basically as I understand it I'm gonna understand it because I told myself I would commit to buying a few of these trees Um, but I think you Maybe pay five dollars or something for a tree and then they they deliver it to you and you help you plant it It's all about planting trees and they have a goal I don't I wrote it up once I write it and put it in the newsletter. I kind of forget to get the I'll refer back to my writing on this in the newsletter, but But anyway, it was a it seemed like a great, you know, I was I was I'm always happy. You know, as any of us are Surely happy to have students at that age kind of interested in this and trying to push the idea so it seemed like a natural thing to put on newsletter, but Um, I added them to our newsletter list Um, you know, uh julian marisol. Maybe you know these folks. I don't know They're in the hot school. I guess I do. Um And it's five dollars per tree. I think they have a goal of 230 trees See julian knows you were just keeping you were just being coy I yeah, so I've been working with them a little Um in attending their meetings their goal is to offset the school's yearly paper consumption. That's right Oh, that's a nice goal, right Which obviously has been none now that it's virtual, but Probably a lot more paper being consumed at home Yeah, so um, can you reach out or the next meeting say that we are interested in helping in any way we can and Um, one of us could even come to one of your meetings, you know at some point Henry, do you want julian to reach out to them or do you want me to reach out to them? Uh, probably both but julian since he's going to the meetings anyway I'll reach out to them and anyone here is more than welcome to come and attend one of our meetings I just wanted you to follow up with that Bennett with julian. Okay, great One one other footnote about that is I looked into the the organization itself that they're kind of working Through this with and I think the organization is 100 staff by High school to college age, uh students Um, yeah, yeah, it's a cool Top to bottom. It's a pretty cool thing great All right, that's all I have for the chair's report Alan you want to give your free warden report? Sure. Um So we have obviously next week March 17th is the tree hearing for the scenic road removal request by ever source So, um I think that's on the agenda for tonight, isn't it Some kind of vote on that recommendation. Yes Then um There's going to be another request for removals on a scenic road upon flat hills a lot has been sold And there's three trees that are going to be impacted by the driveway on flat hills It'll be coming up now The um, rbc links have been ordered. I ordered a hundred Oaks And I can't remember which Which was Is a red oak or not? Um But they'll be here for our every day um the week of our every day the last week of April and then That brings up the need to discuss what we want to do for an our every day event in april Um, because I also need to put the proclamation request together for the town council to To do the our every day proclamation so You just want to do a seedling giveaway. Do we want to have some kind of um Table at the farmers market that might be going by then No Are they doing this the sustainability festival this year or canceled due to covid? I I have not heard about it, but I I would imagine it's canceled Just because of the density of people that usually attend that so Thank you then um We did have you know, we had a quite a Not a surprise windstorm, but it did more damage than I thought it was going to do we had Pretty significant uh evergreens fail around town massive conkul fur on polpet hill and a large noray spruce on the The end of pine street by the river tracks And then we had we had a spruce fail on station road which caused damage to cars But other than that it was a lot of small branches. There was some pretty surprising Complete tree failure and it was really only like a 50 mile on our wind. So that was surprising Yeah, we had no power for eight hours. Thanks to the polpet hill road tree All right, uh, one quick thing. Um, Alan. What was the second uh request for removal not the Tree hearing but there's a where was that flat hills flat hills. Thanks. Do you do you have an address? I don't have an address because there's no property there yet, but um, I can I can share When I get it, um With the committee we'll need to do they're gonna do it. So it's gonna happen. Um So we need to schedule. We'll need to schedule site visit and everything. Um I don't know if you want It's probably too early in the process to try to schedule it now Yeah, let's hold off for tonight at least send me the info when you get it. All right, good anything else? So should we move on? There's the agenda, right, uh So let's next thing up is the 165 bay road discussion um several of us were there and uh a few of us weren't able to make it um Who wants to start off? Um, we can We can Advise Alan that we want the trees to be saved. We can say we want them We'll let them go. We can say whatever we want and then we advise Alan and we have to take a vote at that point, but anyone add So that you have some information to work with so you know the Total diameter removal of those trees Is the equivalent equivalent of 11,677 dollars Does ever source pay us? they would need, you know They would normally be requested to pay um under the tree ordinance, so Sometimes there's negotiation done um for work and kind in the placement What do people think? This is Jenna I I'm a little confused because we went to the site visit and In the site visit we had all kinds of questions in order to understand what The other options for the electric company were to use different poles So that they would not have to impact those trees And Alan my understanding was you were going to come back to this meeting because we had time after talking to um was it ever source And so that we could understand Whether there were possibilities of not taking down those trees because we were all talking about A different other poles that they could access instead. What happened with that? And so I haven't got a response yet from the engineering division on what else they can do there So that may come out if they haven't responded At the actual hearing with the planning board When is the actual hearing with the planning board? Has that been scheduled? It has it's march 17th At 6 35 p.m So In order for us to Be able to give an intelligent Comment about that situation. We really didn't need some information Is there no way to get timely information so that you don't just stop the hearing where everything is pretty much already Well, I would just say, you know, if they're going to move if they're going to move the um The switching and all that hardware to another location and the trees won't need to come down If they can't if they can't move it then They're going to want to take the trees down So should we attend this meeting on the 17th? Yes to watch what's going on it generally speaking a representative from the shape of committee goes to the meetings um, and you know reads the reads the recommendation Has some discussion about what the committee discussed And as a citizen you're welcome to attend Yeah, Julian Um, this is my first time doing this. So I might be wrong but On how to do this, but can I move to? um Can I make the motion that we recommend that the trees be saved or recommend to alan to advise ever source to save the trees? But my problem with this just as sort of a point of order is that Of course, we all looked at it and would like to save the trees But it was really contingent on whether or not We got in the way of a procedure that needs to happen And without that information One, are they willing to make a change to can they make a change? You know, I think I would rather say that given that they can move to another poll that we would Encourage them to do that in order to save the trees So that that would change the motion to We ask ever source to seek other options and if not possible then what And we accept the trees come down or say personally, I think that One wants to appear reasonable And if alan has it right he and everybody who was there and we were looking We could see at least two options where they could put the extra equipment They need on two different poles that would not affect the pole in the middle where the trees are So the question really is is if they have to do what they have to do which according to alan I got gathered that they did If they can only use that one pole then the trees would have to come down But if they can do the option which looked like we couldn't see why they couldn't Then they could use the pole a little further up or a little further down to do the same work They needed in which case there would be no reason to remove the trees Okay, how about this for a motion we request that ever source find an alternative means To do this system and to save Save the trees that are at least the trees that are healthiest I would do them that weren't that healthy I would like to add though that I think it would be good to make the suggestion So it's a reality to move whatever they need to do to the adjacent poles either In front of the we don't have to do before the trees or after the trees So that it shows that there is really a real possibility here It's really up to them. I understand But at least if what you're saying is well not just move it but Move it to a pole before or a pole after In order to then do what they need to do but save the trees That seems a more reasonable Thing for them to consider I don't know what Alan would think about that because he's dealt with them for a while now I think it's all and I think you're getting to the point of the motion Needs to express your concern To save the trees and to request that every source look and do other options Either pole on opposite side Or however you want to word that that they look into other options To achieve their goal without removing the trees If in the end they find no other engineering way to To meet their needs that they would then Pay the replacement costs for the removal of the trees If there is no other option that seems very reasonable to me But I like to mention the option that's obvious Because it's very easy for companies to just say oh, well, we we don't know what to do here But it's not so easy to say what we can't move to a pole in front or a pole behind Okay, I don't have the wording that we can agree to but maybe we can just agree to this in concept and somebody can write that up I felt what Alan said. I mean I If you could just write up what you said Alan about you know using the alternative poles or any other option I think and then if they couldn't do that then we would ask for the money for the town. I think that that's perfect Can you write that out? Yeah, we can do that I can work with Henry Is everybody in favor of this idea? Yeah, I am Okay, so it passes unanimously that We will ask every source as Alan mentioned to change it to a different system And if not, we accept that uh, they'll pay money into the tree fund and we'll let the trees go And okay, we'll get the wording down Great, and then please do come Um, so that's the 17th. That's a week from tomorrow. Right Okay 645 and that's a zoom meeting also 6 6 35 6 35. Okay And who wants to speak in front of the Planning board about it. Come on members of the committee I don't want to always be the one that speaks Let me think about it. Let me think if I can do some speech if I had in front of I have a commitment on seven at seven on wednesday, so I can't on that day All right, I need to do this in the future. I just don't feel quite up to speed yet on everything Still absorbing it all. Yeah I mean, I don't mind speaking I don't mind at all, but I really want everyone on the committee to be involved and Be the public face not just me so All right, well shoshana work on it. If you chicken out, then I'll do it But I don't want you to chicken out. I encourage you to do it All right All right, let's see what else on the agenda Uh, significant re-ordnance and the poll I think we should table the poll for now Sarah what do you think we just think about it more and bring it up at a future meeting Yeah, I mean, I thought the poll questions that you sent looked good um I think It would be good to take some Richard's advice and Maybe wrap our own heads around the ordinance a little bit more or or maybe make Clearer options that we're asking people to weigh in on Before we go live with the poll, but I thought the poll questions in general were good So tabling that discussion for for next month sounds good And does somebody want to do research on which towns have tree ordinances and I Richard Email because he said he had contacts for the you know statewide tree ordinance email list I'll send that to you. Yeah. So I so I sent him an email You know for coming and asking for for those contacts and I can start to compile some of that info. So okay, okay, and I Say, so Excuse me say something. I just want to Sarah, you know, I really do appreciate your time and effort and serious like Focused, you know input you put into this project. It's great um and no Don't get frustrated And we can we can work this Into something that I think the town will will benefit from So Thank you. Yeah, that's nice to have some vote of confidence I think it's just uh, it's a long process to figure out, you know, what's really going to be the best for For the town in longevity. So it's it's worth it to go through the pain of Working out all those kinks now even though it's definitely a lot of work Well, thank you All right, so looking at the agenda the only thing really that we need to talk about since I try to wrap it up by seven each time is uh, the second Saturday planting and the well particularly the work day which is um This a week from Saturday or the set it's a week from Saturday Yeah, that's right right So we're going to do mulching along, uh Amity street if i'm not mistaken and maybe on the common Alan you'll be ready for us. Yep okay And uh, we'll start at nine and hopefully the weather won't be too bad, but Just bundle up warm if it's not bring your mask and we'll We'll shovel Woodchips and do whatever other care we need to do I made an announcement on the next door app and placed a calendar event within that group And um, I've gotten some thumbs up for whatever so we'll see if that actually works Good and maybe get it out on facebook too Yes Okay, I'll do that. I'll do that probably tonight And uh, Bennett, um I was going to ask oh Was that in the the newsletter that just came out? I think no it wasn't maybe we should maybe we should have a Special issue that goes out just on that topic Yeah, yeah, maybe uh, you know I'll be time. Okay. Good. Thanks With the logo on the top Oh, I got it in there man. Yeah. No. Yeah, good all right, uh Anything else the north common letter did that get sent out? Yes, and I got a very nice response from Darcy um Darcy do want responded And is the chair of town services and outreach committee thanked us for weighing in and invited us to weigh in with other recommendations In the future and you know said input from our committee would be helpful on town projects And I said that we were happy to be helpful and would you know Gladly assist in the future especially concerning trees So we have a point of contact for Reaching out about other town projects and have been invited to Have a say All right, um We talked about money from town to fundraising. Let's table Website any news on the website? Sorry. No, I'm good. I'm gonna Pull the covid card and just say I haven't I had hoped to have a new draft out by this meeting, but I haven't been able to so We're all volunteers. So let's don't worry about it. Um, yeah, let's just table the rest of the topics We haven't heard anything from uh I forget your name and I can't see it when I'm sharing so hold on From Marisol So is your sound work, you know? Still can't hear you though. Can you hear me now? Yes Uh, sorry everyone about Wi-Fi. My name is Monty. So I'm 14 years old. I use your pronouns. It's great to be here. Julian invited me Yeah, well, thank you for coming. Yeah Anybody else have other comments? No All right. Well, thank you so much Jenna and Mara and Paul. Thank you for your comments um Rhonda, we didn't hear too much from you today, but that's okay And we'll see you all on the 20th for the tree work day and uh, yeah, stay in touch Thanks, everybody Great seeing everyone. Bye. Don't forget. We have uh, trivia tomorrow night Contact Shashana if you want to join our team


Welcome to today's journey where we delve into the fascinating topic of lucid dreaming and explore the blurred lines between dreams and reality. Lucid dreaming is a phenomenon that has intrigued humans for centuries, offering a unique opportunity to consciously navigate the realms of our subconscious mind. So, what exactly is lucid dreaming? Lucid dreaming occurs when a person becomes aware that they are dreaming while still in the dream state. This awareness grants the dreamer the ability to exert control over their dream environment, characters, and actions. It's like being the director of your own movie, where the boundaries of reality are malleable, and imagination knows no limits. The concept of lucid dreaming has been present in various cultures throughout history. Ancient Tibetan Buddhists and Native American tribes believed that dreams were a gateway to spiritual realms and sought to harness the power of lucid dreaming for personal growth and enlightenment. In recent times, scientists have conducted extensive research to understand the mechanisms behind lucid dreaming. Studies using electroencephalography, EEG, and functional magnetic resonance imaging – fMRI – have provided insights into the brain activity patterns associated with lucidity during sleep. One key finding is that during lucid dreaming, the prefrontal cortex, responsible for rational thinking and self-awareness, becomes highly active. This activation allows individuals to recognize the dream state and potentially manipulate their dreams in real time. Lucid dreaming opens up a realm of infinite possibilities. Once you become aware that you're dreaming, you can engage in activities that would be impossible in waking life. You can fly over vast landscapes, converse with dream characters, and even explore the depths of your subconscious mind. However, the line between dreams and reality can become blurry for those who frequently experience lucid dreaming. Some people report difficulties distinguishing their dream experiences from their waking reality, leading to a sense of disorientation and uncertainty. The merging of dreams and reality raises profound philosophical questions about the nature of consciousness and the boundaries of our perceived world. Some philosophers argue that our waking reality might be just another form of dream, while others emphasize the importance of distinguishing between the two. Ultimately, lucid dreaming serves as a reminder that our minds possess incredible creative potential. It invites us to explore the depths of our imagination, overcome fears, and tap into our hidden desires.


Welcome to All Hands Update. This is your week in Navy history. December 14th, 1944, the rank of Fleet Admiral or Five-Star Admiral of the U.S. Navy is established during World War II due to the rapid build-up of U.S. military forces. The first five-star admirals were William D. Leahy, Ernest J. King and Chester W. Nimitz. Admiral William F. Halsey joined the selected group December 11th, 1945. On December 16th, 1907, by the order of President Theodore Roosevelt, the Great White Fleet departed Hampton Roads, Virginia to circumnavigate the world in 14 months, a journey of 43,000 miles that included 20 port calls across six continents. 14,000 sailors and Marines participated in the voyage aboard 16 battleships and various escort ships, leaving a lasting legacy at home and abroad. If you would like to learn more about these facts and the Navy's history, visit the Naval History and Heritage Commands website.


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Hi, my name is Marc Lejeunesse, and I'm an ecologist at the University of South Florida and I'm gonna talk about three things today. One, I'm gonna talk about tools available to help researchers extract data from plots Then I'm gonna talk about how I fit into that space and some of the things I developed throughout the years and then three I Want to spend a lot of time describing how we could all improve these tools By advocating for really specific Plotting practices There's a lot out there to help you out extract data from plots One of the heavyweights is web plot digitizer. It's been around for a very long time. It's well maintained It has a very nice clean interface that helps you get what you need done In terms of our there's also many tools available Meta digitize is a popular one I myself have developed some manual and semi automated tools in Metagear Which has been around since 2015 I don't remember anymore at this point I mean it was the first tool that I created for the package was these data extraction functionalities and But the Super bummer part of creating all those tools And something that I've learned Sadly throughout the years is that nobody uses Metagear that way Nobody uses any of the manual or semi automated data extraction tools and I almost feel like I created some vaporware Because that really was a lot of the effort I put into the package was developing those tools and now I kind of understand why and So this is what I'm going to spend some of my time talking about is One making it easier for semi automated tools to become more common in extracting data from plots and to Again, like I like I like to end this This brief talk to Describe how we could all improve The use of semi automated tools by advocating for certain plot types Now Metagear Will soon have a Nice gooey interface that allow for the semi automated tools to be quickly done I feel like that was the number one barrier beforehand is Essentially, you would have to write a function to optimize the object detection functionalities in Metagear that was just like a turnoff for most Applied practices, you know, all you need is a digital ruler to point and click and measure stuff But once in a while, you'll get a high density plot and To make that quicker and more repeatable, you know, I feel like Metagear could help you out with that and so here for example You've been able to do the semi automated data extraction stuff, you know for like six years But now there's an interface to help you out to help you streamline that Parameterization of the object detection models But this is a super nice plot and the frequency unfortunately of super nice plots is Low What we are presented with is A huge diversity of plots and practices out there I mean maybe with just cause Because you know scientists get very few opportunities to be creative and so Presenting nice-looking plots is one of these things these avenues in which we could try to and Have fun, but a consequence of that is you break a lot of rules fundamental rules in plotting things With the hopes of making it easier for a reader to interpret your study outcomes that you're reporting in your paper But that there's a there's a trade-off associated with that where you made a plot super nice for a human but consequently it's a difficult for an automated tool to make sense of That to extract the data locked into the plot efficiently and in a repeatable way And so here are my pet peeves of plotting Which if we could avoid any of these types of plots it would Streamline the entire process. I mean we could develop automated tools much more quicker If we would avoid all of these silly silly silly practices And so basically I'm going to end the talk with a giant laundry list of things that add noise to the efficiency of semi-automated tools to extract data from plots GG plot is A troublemaker in the space. I mean it makes beautiful plots, but Vanilla GG plot does not present axes Visually right you got to tell it to to put in the axes without the axes. It's actually hard to start and Identifying the coordinates of objects in a space because you don't have that nice nicely defined boundary Divorced axes another our problem Vanilla are plots will do this It'll break apart the exact axes for some reason to maybe make it easier for you to understand what's being plotted Yeah, why? Text in plots. That's noise. That's flat out noise easy great for us to understand what those points are but awful for a Function or an algorithm to try to identify objects because now it has to differentiate between text and the points and That involves some awkward modeling this stuff. I don't know what you call this stuff This is becoming more and more popular where you Use images instead of points. Yeah, you got to figure out the centroid of that to extract data No, thanks high-density plots. Wow. That's a trouble to you Multiple plots within an image is a problem in lane plots is a problem Multiple plots is a problem and finally multiple y-axis plots are another problem. All these are problems. I Hope that in your future research and how you report things you avoid these issues. I'm working on Pulling together a guide best practice guide That is centered Not so much for the human right we're gonna keep some of the nice human features for readability But to also make it open for machines to read plots and a lot of it involves avoiding this stuff So if you're interested in learning about these details Contact me we could figure something out. Anyway Thanks for your time