Today's podcast is brought to you by FreshBooks.com. Get a 30-day free trial at gofreshbooks.com forward slash David Feldman show. The David Feldman radio program is made possible by listeners like you.  Hello, hello, hello. This is the David Feldman show hosted by Colleen Worthman. What? I'm back. I'm back. And I'm hosting today. And guess who? The David Feldman shows hosted by Colleen Worthman's very special guest is, yup, David Feldman. The tables have turned. And I'm going to ask David a whole bunch of questions that I wrote myself and he has not seen. And here's how it's going to go, David. Do you want to say hi to the people? Hello. He's cowering. His testicles are in his lungs. I'm hiding them from you. Yes. Well, I was going to eat them. Let's dive in, shall we? Okay. Okay. What are your favorite words that you like to use in comedy? What are my favorite words that I like to use? Wow. Do you have any? Cost-benefit analysis? Seriously. If I can say cost-benefit analysis, it just seems to give some kind of stature to whatever I'm saying. This is either in joke writing, comedy writing, or stand-up. And maybe they're different. I and me, mine, whatever success I had as a stand-up comic, the breakthrough for me in the... Okay, I'm getting a...  That's what I want. The breakthrough for me as a comedian was when I made a rule that every joke had to have either I or me in it. And why is that? Because I went through a period where I was doing political satire, and it was more about my being sharp and smart than being funny. And I remember I did Conan. The first time I did Conan, he walked up to me and said, You're very smart.  And I wanted to get back on Conan real quickly, and I knew what he meant by that. That I had done a good first shot on Conan, but it was showcasing my intellect more than it was me or being funny. And I made a vow to myself that I would never tell a joke on Conan that didn't have I or me in it, so that all the jokes would be at my expense, as opposed to anybody else's expense.  So my favorite words are I and me. And the narcissism.  That plays up the narcissism, and the jokes will always be at my expense. If the jokes are always at my expense, then I'm free to say almost anything. It indemnifies me. Do you have favorite words in general? I'll tell you what word I hate. Or myriad. Myriad? Why? I just find it, I just hate that word. I find it pretentious and overused. And I'm old enough now to see cycles. It comes back and disappears. It comes back.  For some reason, I've outgrown this, but I found as a young adult, there was something, the word twinkie, I hated. I found it unattractive if a woman said the word twinkie. I don't know why. Like in a dating context or at all? She said it came out of a woman's mouth. I just found the word. I know it's a cream filled pastry. That's, maybe that's why, but I just always hated to hear a woman say the word twinkie.   To me, yes. I think anything that's hateful and like an anti-Semitic joke, I'm Jewish. I will laugh at an anti-Semitic joke. I'll laugh at a Holocaust joke. My sexism and one of my daughters has complained about this is one of them. I just, I confess to being turned off, although Lisa Lampinelli makes me...  Well, I'm getting into trouble. I'll say this. Yes, you are. I am. It's a form of sexism and I've, my daughter has complained about this. I don't think it's attractive. Wait, do you mean, but do you mean sexually attractive or do you mean like, eww, that person is actually a bad person? Both. Interesting. Yeah. So you assume that a man is basically a good person and attractive if they, if they say a racist joke?  Clearly not sexism. And sexism. And sexism. I've learned that, to be honest with you, I've learned that sexism isn't as funny as I thought it was. To you. To me. Yes. I've learned that.  Y-O-O-M-E-R-S? Yes. Okay. The jokes that come from our liver are splenetic. Is that what the humors were? No, spleen is splenetic. But what were the humors? Oh, um, bile, blood, something and something? You talking about my, the sheets in my bed or the humors? Let's go on. What was the... Yeah, this is not good. No. All right. What was the quite the words I hate? Well, I asked about favorite words in general and then you started talking about words that you love and now you're talking about how... Can I relax and think for a second? You want to get back to that one? No, let me just think. My favorite words... You should just always relax. Okay. My favorite words... Beautiful? Mm-hmm. I think the word beautiful is a... A freighted word. What do you mean by freighted? It carries with it a lot of power and controversy that I embrace. Cool. Okay, cool. I think beauty... Go ahead. Okay. A novel you love that it would surprise people to know. Would you name it please? I don't think it would... Okay, first of all, I'm not... I don't love fiction. Okay. Yes. No, I know. But that's why I'm asking this. So I would sound smarter than I really am. Sister Carrie. Oh, I love that book. Is it Dryden? Drizer. Drizer. Theodore Drizer. Theodore Drizer. I think that would surprise people because he was an anti-Semite. Well, he was German. And well written. Fun fact. Fun fact. His wife fixed most of his sentences. Really? Yeah, because he was a native German speaker. English was his second language. And he would make lots of grammar mistakes and stuff like that. And she would smooth out his tone. She was the second author of most of his books. Right. I don't... I think that would just surprise people. And for some reason, I don't think this would surprise people. The Great Gatsby. But I'm not a big novel. My sister gives me novels to read. I'll read a couple a year, but I'm not...  Right. Okay. Is there a visual artist who means a lot to you? Visual artist? Or with whom you identify, let's say. Not in terms of like their biography, but like their work speaks to you in a profound way. You're listening to the David Feldman show hosted by Colleen Worthman. You're talking about a painter, right? Or a photographer? A painter, a sculptor, photographer, installation artist, anything. I would say Maple Thorpe's early fisting always appealed to me. Okay. David's smirking. This is a lie. The later fisting I thought was too commercial. You have to answer this question for real. It was grandiose. Visual... I like parts of the David. How come you won't answer this question? Because I feel that there was a time in my life when I lived at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. And those days have passed. I've stopped going. What about contemporary art? I like hopper. I think hopper speaks to me. I like the chicken hawks. Not the night hawks. The chicken hawks. The grand bus station. The chicken hawks. They're beautiful. They usually come from Minnesota. They're blonde. They're about 22. No, no. Those are the chickens. The chicken hawks are the people who pray. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're absolutely right. Okay. Are you done answering the question? I'm going to move on. Thank you. Thank you.  In terms of art, I don't want to name something just... I don't want to be like Gary Johnson, like name a world leader you appreciate. And if you can think of one... Okay. Well, we got hopper. I'm ready to move on. I like Renoir. I like Degas. I like Monet. Very conservative tastes. I've grown... I kind of appreciate Picasso because just he did everything. I'm not a big fan of like Da Vinci and the Renaissance stuff because it's just...  Because I can go move to the next question. No, I'm being honest. Oh, okay. I'm thinking out loud about maybe Georgia O'Queefe. I like... I'm moving on. What?  No, no, okay. What is an instrument you wish you could play? No, no, no, no, no. We're moving on. We're moving on. I like Bierstadt. I like the images of the West painted by Europeans. Wasn't Bierstadt a European? I don't know who that is. I think he painted the West literally on the Central Park South. He would go out to the West, paint it, and then finish up the paintings. Is it Atelier? How do you pronounce it? Atelier. Yeah. Central Park South. Hmm. Okay. We'll come back to that. Okay. Is there an instrument that you wish you could play, musical instrument? Guitar, because I play the piano, and it doesn't get you laid. And I wish I never took piano lessons, because I took 12 years of piano lessons, and it involved musical theory, and it was very regimented, and I wasn't any good at it, and it was... I was a mama's boy, and it was too much music for me to have fun with it. Whereas my friends who just took guitar lessons, they could just pluck out some notes, and it sounded just as good, and it was way sexier than sitting down. And remember, I wanted to get laid, and I taught myself funeral for a friend. The whole thing took me four years in college. I was going to master funeral for it. The Elton John thing did not get me laid. Okay. So I wish I could play the guitar. Okay. And I think, and I resent lead guitarists, because I don't think you have to be that musically trained to get away with... It's easy for lead guitarists, in other words, to be overrated. Yeah.   Really? You don't find that... It's so phallic. No, that's like an outdated, very outdated thing. Well, what instrument do women... I don't... I can't speak for all women. And I wish... I find that to be like a really hoary cliche, H-O-A-R-Y. Old. Yeah. Biggest regret from childhood. Oh, God. If you don't want to say it, you don't... No, no, I want to make a joke. I know you do. I can see your corners. What joke do I want to make?  Yeah, I was going to say not thanking my dad every time he molested me. Yeah. Because he's gone. Yeah. Biggest regret from childhood. I would say narcissism, anxiety, self-centeredness, wanting to succeed, always focusing on what was instilled in me by my father, which was have a career, get into a good school, take a big bite out of the American pie, and not understanding that we're in this together. That I was trained to be a liberal, and I was a liberal, but to be... I was brought up to be a limousine liberal. Inadvertently, I don't think my father and mother consciously... My mother was a communist, but then they turned. So I was brought up to have liberal values, but make sure you come first and then take care of other people. And you feel like you were overly attentive to that desire? Yeah. From day one, my consciousness was always this, to be paternalistic as opposed to empathetic, to be detached from the plight of people, as opposed to really understanding what people are going through. Gotcha. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it does. It's a problem that some Jews and some blacks have. There's a tension between blacks and Jews in certain areas of America, where some Jews are only... Again, this is a very dangerous area, but there has been in the past tension between blacks and Jews. Jews of my generation were shocked to learn that there was a strain of antisemitism in the black community. Where does this come from? A lot of it... And this is anecdotal, but a lot of the strain comes from people like me being raised to be paternalistic towards black people. Being liberal, the Jews were the ones who were behind the civil rights movement, and we sure... Right, and acted like they were the best ones at slavery. Yeah, well, that's... But when you go into the ghetto and you have Jews running businesses and being paternalistic as opposed to understanding it creates a lot of tension. And there's also a theory that it's a sibling rivalry, that blacks and Jews are so close in terms of identifying similar problems that they don't understand each other. Sure. And they're not... What was the question I don't remember? Regrets from childhood. Paternalistic as opposed to empathetic. I don't remember myself being a bully growing up. I remember being bullied, but I worry that I might have bullied a couple of kids. Inadvertently because of my brilliant rapier wit. Okay. I have a rapier wit. Well, it's certainly rapey. It's like Bill Cosby has a rapier wit. Joke is so six months ago. I know. Alex Brazell is cracking up over there. If you could have another profession, slash vocation, you can choose either. And you could be great at it. What would you choose? If I could be great at any... Yeah. You don't have to use your comedian self. If you could just be straight up great at any profession other than doing comedy. Well, being great at anything. A professor maybe? Professor. Being a professor. Of what? Law. Really? I like to be Ralph Nader would be great to be a great liberal lawyer, progressive lawyer who could really hurt people for the right reasons, because I do think you need to hurt people. I don't think you need... I think you need to destroy bad institutions, but I think you need to hurt people. I think they're bad people who need to be... I don't know. Lawyer, maybe a great journalist. We can go with lawyer? Also a powerful businessman. Interesting one. Yeah, like a multi-billionaire. Like a Warren Buffett? Yeah. How come? Then because money would buy me politicians and I could really mess with people. I mean, I could just do things. I could really hurt bad people. Nice. And, you know, help people by hurting people. Cool. Now I want to ask some questions about the comedy world. Okay. Just briefly. Mike Sacks, who has interviewed lots of comics, has noted that something like 70% or three-quarters of them have an OCD type behavior or have been diagnosed with AIDS. Do you have OCDs? I would say so. Like what? Well, joke writing. No, no, but I mean actual OCD. There's flipping the light switch. Well, I would say I've channeled a lot. I'm a hand washer. Other people's hands. That's how I realize my hands are clean. It's other people. If I'm in a men's room, I will often wash another man's hands. That must go over great.  So horny. I'm a hand washer. I have to wash my hands. Like if I eat, I have to wash my hands before, during, and after. I cannot stand grease on my hands. Is your worst nightmare like a barbecue situation? Yeah. Or like wings? Yes. So yeah, and but with jokes, if there's a perfect storm of a joke, like Monica Lewinsky getting into a car accident. I remember that where I could not stop thinking of jokes about that. So if I'm in a conversation with somebody and they'll be like, somebody would say I was in Poland and I went to a community college there. Well, I stop thinking because that's a perfect storm for a joke. You know, Polish people in college. And then I just want to write, see if I can get to 100.  Yes. Cool. And then I have certain OCD. I think you can channel OCD into a good thing. I think. For sure. Yeah. Okay. I want to talk about a thing that I perceive as happening in comedy on television right now. Oh, and when I murder somebody, it always has to be eight feet in the ground. Like when I bury them. I know that you like six feet. That makes practical sense because like if the FBI people find the grave, they go six feet down. There's nothing there. They're like, well, let's pack it up and go home. Right. But I could do seven and it's something about the number eight. I don't know what it is, but it's got to be eight. I have an OCD thing with number eight. What is that? When I clean my glasses, I rinse the lenses. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. And then I've turned them around and go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Really? Eight is nice and symmetrical. Yeah. Wow. I used to also have an OCD thing where I would do like, sort of like these palm fronds that would never end. Like when I would draw on my notebook doodling, it would all be connected in one big thing, but there would be sort of these finger-like fronds. They look kind of like talons or claws or feathers or whatever. And I would just do whole pages of those. And is that OCD or just? For me, it was very OCD. Like I had to make sure that they were precise and then I would like, I would symmetrify them on the other side of the page. So that was kind of like the most complicated fleur-de-lis ever. Right. Some things that we call OCD, I believe are activities that we discover are pleasing to the brain and that we can't, it becomes addictive. Like I used to edit video and audio and do cartooning. I wasn't any good at it. But it hit a pleasure center in my brain and I became addicted to it. I used to say, no, this is OCD. This is the only thing I can control. The only thing I can control are these, is what I'm editing. And it's a form of OCD. No, it's just something that I don't think it kind of trivializes real OCD. I agree. I do think a lot of people say OCD when they simply mean like a little bit anal. Like, oh my God, I'm so OCD about having to have a clean desk at work. It's like, well, are you really, though, can you not leave the office unless you've wiped the top of your desk 12 times, 6 times on each side? Right.  And now I've got 5, like my mind. Oh, so I just triggered your joke writing OCD inside your mind. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, see what you can do to switch it off because it needs your whole brain for a few of these. Okay. I want to get back to the question I was asking before, which is there's this thing happening on TV right now. And I don't know if you share this perception, but I think there are a lot of unfunny comedies being marketed right now. Or they're like shows that are just sort of shows about people. Maybe they're dramas. Sometimes the stakes aren't very high. And there are no jokes in them. Why do you think this is a trend right now? And why do you think they're being marketed as comedies? Well, what I'm feeling, there are two opinions in there opposite. I can answer it. There's one answer I could give you that comes from the place in my heart that feels the universe is expanding. I'll never be broke and that I'll always be taken care of. Then I can give you the answer from... Please give me both answers.  So I can give you both answers. Both answers, please. Which one would you like first? The expansive one. That there's a source that gives us everything we need? Yeah. The positive to us? Yes. Ever thus, that there's always been a market for McDonald's and crappy comedy. Nothing has changed. We only remember through the mists of time.  But through the mists of time, we only... The myriad of mists? The myriad of mists. We only remember Rod Serling, Requiem for a Heavyweight. We only remember Patty Chayefsky's work on television. We only remember your show of shows. So we have this idea that there was this golden age of television, when in fact, as Newton Minow, the former head of the FCC, said of television, it's the vast wasteland. Right.  We only remember the great stuff. And even the great stuff, when you go back and look at it, like the Sting, for example, which wasn't television or comedy.   I don't understand why people think that that's the greatest movie ever written. I do not get it.  Well, it's just because it's Robert Redford.   It's Paul Newman and Robert Redford. I mean, they look sensational, but so what? Yeah. I mean, a lot of Paul Newman's movie... God bless Paul Newman and his politics a lot. A lot of his movies just, you know, but anyway. So they'll always be bad comedy. Okay. Bowel answer, please. The foul answer is there was a time when television in the 50s was only marketed to rich people and educated people in New York City and Chicago and places where urban, educated elites were the only ones who had television. So comedy was much more sophisticated because the only people watching television were sophisticated.  So I've only left heart at a play that was marketed as a comedy once and that was Clyburn Park, which is legitimately hilarious. But most comedies on Broadway are not funny. You go, really? They have class signifiers, which are clever and evoke laughter of recognition, but there's no hard punches. Yeah.  Because they're not really funny, like 90% of them. I've had some friends who were in plays and I go, then again, I'm not... I don't go to that many Broadway plays.   And an audience doesn't want to feel left out.  Not funny. That the audience not laughing is a good thing because it means nobody's feeling superior. The great equalizer is non laughter. And then we'll sweeten it later.  And I've given up, but I used to say this.  We're going to sweeten this anyway. So comedy is fascism. I've been doing this long enough. We have a room full of professionals. We know what's funny. Who cares if it got a laugh from the studio audience? The people who come to see television shows, they should be considered, well, euthanized. But they're just a slice of the millions of people are going to see this. They should not be dictating what's funny or what's, I should be dictating what's funny. And on that tip, let's talk briefly about Kevin Meany. Because you tweeted about Kevin after he died. He died yesterday. Yes, he did. I just found out this morning. Kevin, can you talk a little bit about Kevin and his? Well, I didn't know Kevin that well. I started out in San Francisco and he was one of the, you know, in Boston and San Francisco in the 80s. He was up there with Robin and Dana. I mean, I don't even want to mention the names. But Kevin invented or just was, came fully formed into this world as a comic who was unlike any other. Absolutely fearless and was too good for this world in terms of comedy. He was just too good. What do you mean too good for this world? His style was completely original. And one of the things I said is that he inspired generations of comics specifically from Boston and San Francisco to remember that it's the performer who dictates what's funny, not the audience. Right. And you tweeted that and a lot of people have been retweeting it. It's a sensation and now you have a new career as a memorial tweeter. That's your niche. You know, that's the thing about Facebook and Twitter is you tweet out something like that and all of a sudden it starts getting like retweeted and liked and you forget that Kevin Meany, this miracle of comedy is now gone and you start feeling good that you're being liked and accepted. Yeah. Oh, do you watch that show Black Mirror? Have you ever seen it? I've heard such great things about it. Okay. There's the first one. Like one of the first episodes of it's actually the first episode of season three on Netflix. It stars Bryce Dallas Howard, who I think is Ron Howard's daughter. She's a very good actor. She was in the help and some other stuff. Right. And it takes place in like a pretty near. Moe Howard's daughter, I believe. That's weird. Yeah. That's why she poked herself in the eyes and yanked her own hair and then fell over that table halfway through the episode. I thought rather arcane choice for that scene, but okay. See, that's wonderful. My instinct was and I held back was to say I'm pretty sure that she's Moe Howard's daughter and not Ron Howard's because when I poked her in the eye, she kind of took it. She like where I was like the joke for me would be that I would be hitting that you would be doing the violence towards the woman. I can't do that. But to me, that's because I'm an actor or, you know, have been an actor for most of my adult life.  Stick traits and you would incorporate them into your work. But now, so let me ask you a question about that. Sure. Violence towards women. No, we're not going down this road. I'm going to stop this right now. I'm not going to use do these. All right. Colleen represents all women. So I'll ask a reductionist question. Right. To do good synthesis and your show. It's your show. No. It's your show. Okay. Do you believe that comedy is the best genre to address class issues? No, I don't think comedy accomplishes anything other than making you laugh, forget your problems. And some of those problems are class issues. So I think that comedy accomplishes nothing other than making you feel good. And if there's a problem that needs to be addressed, you shouldn't feel good about it. So I don't think as much of my career has been spent on quote unquote political shows. And I don't think we move the needle one bit. In fact, I think we've kept the needle right where it is or it's gone down. Were you being comedy people? I think political satirists shows that talk about politics accomplish nothing other than having fun at the expense of whatever problem this country is facing. They accomplishes nothing. I don't think it betters the world. I think the country, I mean, maybe you could argue it's drawing attention to some issues, but they tend to be echo chambers. Okay. What do you think is the biggest difference between stand-up comedy culture now and when you were coming up? The sense of community. There was a community in San Francisco, a comedy community in San Francisco that I gravitated to. There was one in Boston. And again, I know I sound old, but there were standards. Certainly in Boston, San Francisco, you had to have Kevin Meany's values to get stage time in the city. It wasn't about getting laughs. This is true about San Francisco. It wasn't about getting laughs. It was the quality of the laughs. And it was hypercritical. You had a generation of comics who were very critical of each other. There were a lot of guys who stood in the back of the room and watched other comics and gossiped about other comics. And you played to the back of the room in San Francisco and Boston to get the approval of the other comics before you got the approval of the audience. I think it's changed because I've been running with the young ones here in New York. And I'm not saying it's better or worse, but there is this phenomenon among the 20-something comics that they're not as competitive, which is good because I don't think competition is good. There's a sense of community and they only see the good in other comics. They are that everybody is funny. Do you see that as a career strategy? As a professional strategy or a social strategy? I don't know. I find it interesting. I'm a bit detached because I'm really running with my children. They're my kids' age. I'm doing shows with young comics in their mid-20s. And they just love comedy. They see comedy as an end. I'm making a sweeping generalization. But I do pick up that they see comedy as an end. Like music. Music just feels good. And they like music and they like comedy. And I've always found comedy to be a means by which to hurt somebody. You know, to isolate myself or another person and hurt them with comedy. It's a weapon. Things change. And I'm sure they're making a sweeping generalization. That to me is the difference between Letterman as a late night show and Fallon or Corden as late night shows. Letterman was clearly skewering his guest and the whole notion of a late night show and Fallon is just kind of lovingly embracing. It gets back to what I said about Kevin Meany. Kevin Meany instilled in me and generations of comedians that the performer dictates what's funny, not the audience. And I learned what was funny by watching Woody Allen and Mel Brooks and Mort Saul and whomever. And I said, OK, they're the experts. They're teaching me what's funny. The switch because of social media and the like generation. Oh, that reminds me. Well, I think the problem that Fallon is up against is if it's all about likes, you have to be likeable. And quite frankly, I'm not so sure 5,000 likes on Facebook and Twitter translates into ratings and ad sales. But it's... It may not. That's what they're hoping for, right? Well, it's something that you can hold and point to. But who are these people liking something on Twitter and Facebook? It's only a small segment of your viewership. So... Wouldn't one argue that the social media savvy people are the demo of desire? They can be measured. It's a measurement. I don't know if they're actually... I think we're being fed this lie about YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter. A lot of those likes are just robots. They're fake. You know that story that the LA Times couldn't understand how a guy running for district attorney had more likes on YouTube than there were registered voters in his district. I don't know this story. So what they did is somebody explained it to him, the reporter, and he went and literally videotaped 20 minutes of paint drying. He posted it on YouTube and then paid for likes and views. Oh, well paid likes and views are different. Yeah. And when it got up to about 50,000, the publisher of the LA Times said, you proved your point, we're not paying for anymore. So a lot of what Generation Like thinks is being liked, it's as old as the scriptures, as old as rock and roll. No, it's Paola. The song that keeps getting played on the radio, there was cocaine and money exchanged for you.  You go, oh, this must be good. I mean, once you get comfortable with an idea or a song or a premise, you will then accept it and enjoy it. Right. So, oh, when I was talking about Black Mirror before? Yes. The first episode of season three, Bryce Dallas Howard plays this kind of anxious, aspirational woman who is frantically liking things, takes place in the near future and there's this app where people have this thing installed in their eye where you look at someone and it scans their face and gives you their rating, their social rating. So you can immediately see if they're like a high status or low status person or whatever. And people like flick and sort of rate each other all the time. Oh, that's great. It's so good. It's really, I mean, especially in light of this thing that we're talking about. I think you would find it a delightful episode. And I believe it was written by Rashida Jones and Mike Scher. Ah. Yeah. Actually, that guy Charlie Brooker who created the series came out of comedy in the U.K. And they're generally not really funny. They have very, very dark comic moments, but you can see where his comic impulses have led him toward horrific sci-fi conclusions. Right. So on that tip, do you have a science-related obsession that makes you either fear or love the future? My God. That's all I think about. Well? The only silver lining to getting older is the comfort of not having to live in the future. But I fear for the future. I think that democracy is doomed because we've been atomized through technology. We only want our own reality, and soon we will be given it. We're already almost there. Right. We're in pods of like-mindedness. Yeah. And Washington and politics is all about community. And when it becomes scary like Trump, we retreat to our pod and say, well, if it doesn't affect me, maybe it's not so bad. And I think we're moving much faster than we're willing to admit to ourselves to a virtual existence where I have a massage chair. Mm-hmm. And it's pretty good. It's not as good as the human touch. I mean, skin hunger is a serious problem in this country. There's actually, it's called skin famine where people are- I've never heard that phrase before. Yeah, where our bodies crave the touch of other human beings. That being said, you know, how many years away are we from a massage chair that tricks the body into thinking it's another human being touching you? Mm-hmm. And once that happens, and I don't have to worry about being told that I left the light on in the kitchen while I'm getting a massage, how do you- Don't you live alone now, David? Well, I'm just saying that why would I want a back rub or more from something that's going to remind me that it has to be up at 7 a.m. so can you hurry up and finish? Mm-hmm. As opposed to a thing that you turn the switch. Sure. And does exactly what I want. Mm-hmm. And if it thinks the toilet seat was left up, it will go and put it down. This is a really gendered argument. Of course. Interesting. You'll learn either to urinate standing up or it won't require urination. Okay, so you want a world without women? No, I'm saying I fear for the future. I'm saying that don't you think that human beings choose the path of least resistance? Not always. Considering the insane amount of energy people will expend for things they think they will enjoy. I feel like hope springs eternal.  Shadow Stevens, who's a brilliant man. Is he? Yeah, hence a meditation. One of the greatest guests I've ever had on. Interesting. I have a show that I do. You don't know this, but I do a podcast on a radio show. Yeah, no. And this is much better though. It really is. Shadow Stevens showed me the opening of Thief of Baghdad. Wait, what is Thief of Baghdad? It's a silent movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it begins with happiness must be earned. It's such a great message, happiness. And I believe that you have to earn happiness and you're not supposed to be happy all the time. And happiness comes from getting on the treadmill and running and not wanting to do it and feeling good, you know, doing things that you don't want to do. But... They had treadmills in the silent films? Evolution, you know, we evolve. The brain evolves and technology... Allegedly. Well, and technology is rewiring our brain and we're in the not too distant future. I'm talking about like seven years from now. In the year of the tux-medicated pad? Yes. That happiness will no longer have to be earned. I mean, we've already had a... But will it be actual happiness or will it be satiation? I don't think yet. If you're shooting heroin, you don't ask that question. You're just happy. I disagree. But I've never shot heroin. Just snorted it. No, I don't like hard drugs. I'm scared of them. I've never done them. Me neither. I've never done heroin. Yeah, I can't... I came to New York during college in the height of the AIDS epidemic here. And you would see... That's why there was an... I caused it. You're butane du gât. Yeah, no, but there's nothing less appealing to me than heroin because all I see is the horrible effects of it everywhere. Even now, in Harlem where I live with my husband, there's a methadone clinic, a block away from our house. And the people look like mutants. Not because they're on methadone as opposed to heroin. I don't think heroin is glamorous or cool. I don't get it.  They have buckshot marks in their face. Their jaws are always weird. They're either sticking out too far or partially removed.  I don't understand the magic of heroin. Well, first of all, maybe that's why they do heroin. Or secondly, instead of methadone... No, you can see it's worn. Maybe they need Botox instead of methadone. Okay. Well, supposedly, though... I agree with you. But I've been told... I mean, heroin I was brought up just to stay away from heroin. But... I've been told that some people function very well. Chipping. What's chipping? Just doing a little each day.  I don't know. And there are people who are very successful who can handle it. Right. Well, and now there's allegedly this productivity thing or creativity thing that people in Silicon Valley do where they do like three percent of a dose of LSD or something.  I didn't hear about it, really? Yeah. Yeah. Like micro dosages of LSD. Yeah. So they're just constantly... Yeah, they take it like every day. Like during the weekday. Oh, well, I've never done LSD. I tried it once in college. I don't know. I didn't really see what was so great about it. But I hardly had any because I was scared that I would lose my mind. Right. Me too. You know? I already had it. When I was in high school, Len Bias died of cocaine. That made a huge impact on me. Then I came here, AIDS. Then cocaine was like, I was too poor. And now I just don't like people who participate in that whole culture, socio-economic and political and otherwise. I just feel like there's no winning. I'm scared of frying my brain. I'm scared of my spinal fluid leaking out. Like MDMA or whatever.  Nah, I'm just not worth it.  It's not worth it to me. Right. I'll listen at home on my little headphones. Right. Anyway. Do you harbor any conspiracy theories? Yes. Like what? Can I do a preamble? Can you make it quick? Yeah. I believe in conspiracy theories when I feel alienated, disenfranchised and broke. Okay. When I feel that I, and I, there was a time in the 90s when I was making a lot of money. I was young, desirable, and I scorned people who had conspiracy theories because I believe that I was close to the top, that I saw the inner workings of corporate America. This was in the 90s. I thought, oh, you're foolish. I know what's really going on, and there's no conspiracy. As I fall further down the economic ladder, I see conspiracies. So I think there's some relationship to, I think if you're in the richest 1%, you realize how everybody just hates one another and they can't work together so there couldn't possibly be a conspiracy. But when you're not in the 1%, you believe, oh, there's a conspiracy among the 1% against the 99%. I do believe in conspiracies. I think Wall Street's a conspiracy. I think there is a money conspiracy that is as old as the scriptures. Once again, I'm going to say that. When people have money, they conspire to keep it.   So there is a, yeah, I do believe in conspiracies. I believe that Kennedy, there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. I believe... Do you think it was Castro or the mob or someone else? I think there were a lot of people who wanted him dead. And I think a lot of people turned a blind eye to guns pointing at him.  I think the mafia wanted him dead. I think there were elements within the CIA that wanted him dead. Interesting. There were people who wanted Johnson to become president, who wanted him dead, but I don't think Johnson was involved. But I think there were people... That's why I think Trump is so dangerous where you go, yeah, he's an idiot, but there are people who are supporting him who could put him into office without his even knowing it and then make him do things. I believe in conspiracies. What do you think was or is the most interesting political year? Well, 68. This isn't this. This is not interesting to me. What, the question is not interesting? No, no, no, this year is not interesting. It's sad and it's not nourishing. It's not puff pastry. It's a rehash of every horrible thing that we... You know what it is? It's like a stale panini from the deli that's not quite all the way heated up. But you're hungry.    I hate the Republican Party for allowing this to happen. I watched him at the Al Smith dinner. Oh yeah, I watched that too. And you know, it's so easy to hate Donald Trump. I've been hating him since the 80s. But you go, why does Ivanka love him? Why does... Because I think his kids genuinely love him. And I... Watching him smile and I should have won the Emmy and I didn't and being... I think he's just a goofball... A heart... Except for the raping of women. He's a harmless... I think his children don't know about the rape and the groping. So I think that they view him as a harmless goofball who you shouldn't take all that seriously. There's something almost sad about him if you don't know that he's a rapist or if you don't take his political views on Arabs and Mexicans.  But is it necessary to compartmentalize that way? Those are all part of the same person. But I agree. I think that he's... I have a rule... At any television show I work on, I have a rule you have to protect people from themselves. If somebody is missing all their teeth, you don't put them on television. If somebody's drunk, you don't put them on television. Even though they want to be on television, you have a responsibility not to put them on television. You're exploiting them. Donald Trump should be in prison for rape for his views on Mexicans and Islam.  He seems profoundly unwilling to listen to the powers that be, though.  I'm wasting my time. Peace out. Yeah, so there is something... I mean, do you... I'm not allowed to ask you a question. Yeah, you are. Is he a rapist? Yeah. Is that the question? Yeah, I think it's hard to forgive... That was not a question. I know.  And ruining the entire skyline of the West Side. Yeah. All that being said, if I were his daughter, I can see watching him at the Al Smith Center.  And I don't hate him as much as I do to the people who are using this sociopath who doesn't belong on television. To me, that's the greater sin, is taking a very sick deviant and using him when he needs to be locked up and he needs to be given help, and he's a rapist, as is Bill Clinton. Okay. Bill Clinton's a rapist. And Hillary protected and shamed his victims. Protected him and shamed his victims. Right. And we should have found somebody better, like Elizabeth Warren. You know, there's something wrong when you're using government and the presidency to replay the past and make it better. It's what George W. Bush did. Or was trying to do. Yeah. This country is all about fresh and new. It's all about strange. We like the strange. I'm being sexist, but we like strange. You see, that reference was so outdated. I didn't even identify it at first. And Hillary is just going to be... Hillary is too qualified to be president. Okay.  Let me ask you another question. Good. I like this. Person who is the shittiest politician and politician who's the shittiest person. Okay. Wow. Okay. I'm getting over cold. First part of the question. Person who is the shittiest politician. Name that person. And also please name the person... Wait. Person who's the shittiest politician. Jimmy Carter. Okay. Politician who's the shittiest person. Reagan. Okay. There we go. But you're saying like a successful politician. Yes. Well, they can be obscure too, but then that'll require some unpacking. But I feel like Carter and Reagan... That's too easy, but... Is it too easy or is it just true? When you say politician who is the shittiest person implies that they're a good politician. Yeah. Successful politician. Yes. Shitty person. Yes. Or effective politician you incredibly admire. Or either like diabolically effective. I mean these fork out into multiple options. But I just wanted to hear your like first impulse. My first impulse is that Barack Obama is a much better politician than we give him credit for. Mm-hmm. And I think he is too good for this country. I don't think we deserve him. I think he's a miracle. Mm-hmm. And that's just because he's killed American citizens overseas with drones. That's...  I think he's a... I don't know. My suspicion is that he was spotted by Harry Reid. I think Harry Reid, the outgoing Democratic majority leader from Nevada, I think he was the one who spotted Obama. Mm-hmm. And he was vetted. He was probably vetted by the CIA. I do believe in conspiracies. I don't think you're going to get... Who wouldn't be? Yeah. If they're being groomed to be president. Yeah, I think they vetted him. I think he was spotted at Harvard Law. I went to Columbia with Obama. Undergrad? Yeah. Really? Did you know him? Undergrad? I'll tell you I did. That's a no. But nobody was... Then why do you even tell me that? People... Nobody picked me. I noticed that at college, you kind of get picked. Why?  Special needs? Then you should have been picked. Right. And nobody was going, come with me. I know that he was... But what did you major in at Columbia? English. Oh, well, so what was he? What was his major? I don't know. You probably didn't have any of the same circles. But, yeah, there were no... Is it because you're Jewish and he's black? Blow. He just assumed you were going to be paternalistic toward him? There were no circles. When I was at Columbia, there were no circles. There was just pot and beer. I'm being serious.  I can help you. And that's the way life works. And I think as you get to Harvard Law, people say, come with me. And people begin to identify this amazing human being along the way. And eventually, I think you're vetted by the CIA and everybody. I think you get into the Senate. I think the Chicago machine vetted him. Well, clearly. Yeah. He's got his teeth on vicious politicking. Yeah. And then he gets to the Senate and Harry Reid goes, oh, this guy's pretty amazing. This guy could be president. That vetting system worked as far as I'm concerned. I think he's amazing. But then how come George W. Bush got through? Different people, different institutions, different vetting systems. Just straight legacy. One of the saving graces of this country is that you have competing ideologies, competing institutions, competing conspiracies. They're all these different cabals contained within our country. And they all want the same thing for different reasons and for different pockets. And the Bush family is a different cabal than the Chicago machine. Sure. And the CIA has its own cells competing against one another. The same way if you work for a corporation, there's cells within the corporation competing against each other. So was Kennedy killed by the CIA? Parts of it. Interesting. It didn't come down from... I can't remember his name. I don't think the CIA officially said kill JFK. I think there were some guys who were working with the mafia off the books, on the books that killed him. That's how conspiracies work. Sure. It's never the official doctrine of exon to cover up climate change. Right. There are elements within exon that are hiring experts in climate change and providing the CEO with plausible deniability. When the leader has plausible deniability... Than anybody else can do anything. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One last comedy related question. Okay. In your many years of comedy writing... Yes. Have you ever really worked on sitcoms? Yeah, a little. Do you find yourself less drawn to them than one so-called one-off type of events? Or where do they fall for you? Like you worked on Jack and Triumph, but that's definitely formally a different kind of a shell, right? That was a sitcom, and I've had development deals and pilots and Roseanna, a couple other things. sitcoms are... It's not my passion because my passion is politics. So I don't... I can't get hard working on a sitcom. Okay. You know, it's just a different... Alex Brazell is laughing. And everybody's... Here's the thing about sitcom writing. More people... A lot of people can be good at it. It's very hard to learn structure and the formula. sitcom structure and formula. Yeah, but once you do, it's a collaborative medium sitcom writing, and it's very easy to do it. So you can be replaced much... Oh, interesting. Yeah, and it's... A lot of it is luck getting on a show that is a hit, and then the rest of the business starts to think that you had some contribution to that success, and you can... There are a lot of guys who use their Seinfeld credit to further their career. They worked on two episodes? Well, it was Larry and Jerry. So there's something about sitcoms that I just... I don't feel... For me, there wasn't the kind of heavy lifting that didn't feel like real work. It's a lot of committee stuff, and you end up writing a script, and no matter what happens, it gets rewritten 20 times. Yeah, that's what's less appealing about it to me, and I've never worked on any. It just sounds, A, socially exhausting to be in a room trying to yell your ideas out to get them heard and get on the screen or on the page. And also, after something has been rewritten so many times, it loses its animus. I think for... Had I been made different, I wish I loved money more than I loved being funny, because I think that the people who succeed at sitcoms are incredibly funny people, but they put the money first. So they're able to sit for 14 hours in a room. It's like Das Boot. I mean, you're in a room first. Lighting your forts on fire? Yeah, it really is. A lot of these jobs, you're stuck in the same...  If you're lucky, six days a week. And at some point in the day, you're no longer funny. Yeah. And that's where the money kicks in. And you just have to think about the money. And there are a lot of people who can do that. I wish I were built differently. But don't you feel like just in the course of a writing day, there has to be ebbs and flows just even just bio-rhythmically? Bio-rhythmically, I have one good hour. Which is what? First thing in the morning. Oh, yeah? If you want my... I give... I've told this to people I work for. You know, you're going to get my... You're going to get my best hour. And I'm giving you... The best gift I can give you is my first hour with my first cup of coffee. The rest... I can sit in a room with other writers. And... But in terms of just sitting in front of the computer and typing, my best hour is the fresh out of... You know, I haven't seen the paper. My first two or three cups of coffee. That's my best. Yeah. I think that's the same for a lot of people because you just have relatively recently come out of your dream world. Right. Do you have recurring dreams? Yes. What are they? Do you want to say them? Or would they... Would that diminish their power for you? I have two recurring dreams. One is that in high school, and everybody's graduating but not me, the other recurring dream is that... This is like once a month. I never graduated... I did graduate from college, but the dream is that I didn't graduate from college, but I have one half a semester left. And I'm my age, but I'm graduating from high school and applying to colleges and have to go through four years of college to finish that last half of a semester. So it's graduation anxiety and a bureaucratic nightmare combined. Yeah.  Did you hate high school? High school is who you are. So I didn't hate it. In fact, as an alcoholic, you go through recovery. You want to get to where you were before you became an alcoholic. Well, I became an alcoholic in college. So my recovery is high school. I've been sober for decades, but in my mind, who I was in high school, warts and all, is who I am because I immediately started drinking in college. So did I. Yeah, so high school is kind of who we are and it's the good with the bad. Well, will you have me back? Absolutely. Was I a good guest? Yes. You gave very good, thoughtful answers.  That's why you're hosting the show. I don't have pneumonia. I went to the doctor, but I've been sick for a month. I've just been worked to the bone. Yeah, you've been working really hard. And going through a divorce and personal problems. And I just, like people who've been listening, I do a podcast. Oh, really? Never heard it. And they've been interesting. They haven't been hysterically funny because I can't laugh because I start coughing. Right. So it's been, but final, I'll just say one thing and then we'll wrap it up. But, you know, I do this podcast that you should come on and I've been doing it now since 19, 2009. And we've been doing it by any means necessary. Mm-hmm. Just, you know, I don't, we have to deliver the shows any way. Right. And I'm kind of proud of this because the listeners have stuck with me through all the various incarnations. And having you do this is a great way to keep doing content. It doesn't have to be one way. So you're congratulating yourself for being too tired to host the show. Well, you know what?  And I congratulate myself for knowing how to catch luck. You have very good taste. I do have that. I'll give you that. I do. I do. That's why I'm dressing better. Well, that is a nice sweatshirt. Not for nothing. One of the things I'm paying, now that I'm divorced or almost divorced, I'm paying much closer attention to clothes because I realize... Your look is totally divorced. Yes. FYI. Good year, worn brim, snap brim hat. Well, I'm... And charcoal gray sweatshirt.  I mean, it... This doesn't count. It's fine. But I have excellent taste in people. Yes. I do. So can I ask you a question? Sure. When do you leave for Los Angeles? This coming Friday, the 28th. And when do you come back? I don't know, really. The initial contract is through, I don't know, March something? Well... And then it either might flip over to another one immediately or not. I just don't know. So I'll be out there for a little while to start. I hope you succeed. Thank you. Me too. I hope you also succeed. And I hope you finally get better and get healthy. This has been The David Feldman Show with special guest David Feldman, hosted by Colleen Werthman. Check us out online. Oh, good. Let's see. What do you think? Amazon.com slash David Feldman show and .00000019% of your purchase will go to this fine radio program. Let me help you through the closing. Okay. So mention that it doesn't cost more to shop on Amazon. It doesn't cost more to shop on Amazon. That's true, because I have Amazon Prime and I've saved a lot of money on shipping. Well, I'm saying if you go through my site... Oh. It doesn't cost more. No. In fact, Amazon makes less. Indeed. By going through my site. Right. So you're actually helping... I'm no bookkeeper, but it sounds legit. You're actually helping mainstream. Mainstream. Main Street, USA. Main Street. USA by going through... I don't see that, but I don't want to go down this road. Okay. Let's finish that. Let's finish the outro. Can we redo the chicken hawk jokes? No. No. That stays. Chicken hawks. For someone who purports so much about pedophilia, woeful ignorance. I don't know enough about pedophilia.  Jesus. Oh, like that's so shocking.  We have to wrap up. Kyle Hitler. I want to... I am Colleen Worthman. This has been David Feldman 4, The David Feldman Show. Bye. I had questions about that answer. Let's tell you about a podcast that I listen to. Two of my friends host it, and I think you should listen to it. Andrew Goldstein. Maybe you remember him as my Jew on some of our more popular episodes of The David Feldman Show. Andrew Goldstein is a brilliant comedy writer from MTV and Race Wars. And Matt Goldich writes for Late Night with Seth Meyers, brilliantly funny comedian and comedy writer. They have a new podcast. You can download it on iTunes. It's called Sorry I've Been So Busy. You know, everyone always says they're so busy, but what exactly are they so busy with? Well, in their podcast, Sorry I've Been So Busy, writer-comedians Matt Goldich and Andrew Goldstein talk to their interesting and funny friends to find out what they've actually been so busy with. Everything for major life and career events to everyday minutia. Sorry I've Been So Busy is the only podcast that will never blow you off unless something comes up.


Alright, so who's ever seen this before? Nobody. This? You? Okay, cool, cool, cool. Alright, so this is called the triangle theory of love, right? According to this, love is the product of what we call consummate love, which right here is the product of three things, right? It's intimacy, passion, and meaning, okay? So the thing about this triangle is saying that in order to have love and fairytales should be on top of it, you all have to have all three things working together. The thing about this theory is, according to this, most people don't get all three, right? Most people get one out of three, two out of three, but they don't get all three. For example, romantic love, that's a combination of intimacy and passion without commitment. That's like a boyfriend and girlfriend. Y'all ain't married.  You can have conversations for days, but you're not trying to be together for 50 years, you understand? And then you look at compassionate love, okay? There's intimacy. Y'all can compensate. There's commitment, but there's no passion. That's an example of like, y'all heard of like a loveless marriage, you know, like we're together for the kids, he's my best friend, but there's no, you know? And then, fatuous love, that's passion and commitment, but no intimacy. I can't think of an example of that. Y'all got an example of that? Where there's passion and intimacy, but no, passion and commitment, but no intimacy. Maybe you don't really know each other. Y'all know each other. No, it's not. But you're not committed to it, buddy. Friends will benefit. Friends will benefit. Okay, that's real, that's real, that's real. All right, so, so, so, according to psychology, this is what love is based on. Love is pretty much a math problem, right? So, the reason I wanted to start from here is because first of all, I thought it was interesting. I thought it was interesting to kind of break it down like that. And to kind of analyze your situation based on this. And also, I think you can use this to kind of dissect other kinds of love. Kind of like O2 on video, so there's other types of love. It's love between friends, it's love between your family and stuff. Who agrees with this? I'm guessing the rest of y'all disagree? I'm thinking I agree.  That's your fairytale. Y'all get married, just happy every half, happy every half to have him. Three and a half kids, right, fifty-fifty to them. You just can't. Like, assume that every fairytale love is jumped straight to the happy of the after. That's not how relationships work. That's where that commitment comes in. Commitment doesn't mean cheating or anything. It's when you're committed to making it work. When you're consistent on compromising and making something work. You can love somebody and they can give you everything that fairytale gives you. Yes, you're going to have problems, but if you want to be committed, you're going to have problems like my parents have been together since high school. They've had problems with issues and whatever, but they have like little kids together. And it's like, I mean, just the love that they have for each other makes me want to love somebody a little bit. I feel like that they love each other like my mom took care of my dad for his treatment.   I don't like that. Now maybe you got over that problem, you accepted that problem, but he still wasn't Mr. Perfect or she still wasn't Mr. Perfect.  My dad said if my mom ever passed away, she would run him. He would take the dog, he would take everything and just send the house on fire because he couldn't live. But you need intimacy first. You've never been in a conversation with somebody who walked away and thought, damn, that girl's cool. I'm more of the type of person that tries to really get to know people and everything like that. I feel like the problem with the infatuation is love's to overpower that real quick.   That feeling of... If you have that connection with somebody, you know it. You know you want to start something. So you have to have that in mind. You have a conversation first. You see yourself, most likely, when you just infatuate with that person, you're attracted to that person. Most likely it doesn't really happen. It doesn't really go any further than that. But if you really like getting to know that person first and have a conversation, you feel like, man, I'm really digging this first and stuff like that. It's going to lead up to those other things longer and then you want to have... I feel like it's going to lead to a stronger relationship. So how are you going to be intimate with someone? Y'all are saying intimate see country. But how are you going to be intimate with someone that you don't know? I just feel like there's like certain things that you have to have. Like you have to have that connection. Like it's like something that you can build off of. You can just like find that commitment. I want to agree with what you just said. Because if you don't got that initial attraction, what's going to make you want to be intimate or committed? You would definitely say that infatuation is an intense but short little passion or admiration for someone or something.  That's infatuation, correct?   So you're saying that should go first. I'm wondering if you want it to come first or not. I think it does come first. I'm trying to learn how to be intimate with someone. Not for a great episode. I'm trying to learn how to be intimate with someone. But once you get your heart broken, it's kind of hard, but you can't get scared. So I'm going to thank you.


iswelf that in this one please make it feel very welcome Chris Brosnan. Thanks everyone for coming here. When we talk about FX and morals in web development obviously we see them in other professions I've seen them in the medical profession in law and so on. I feel like our web development in the digital sector as a whole is growing now So we need to start thinking about these questions, particularly with how software, including websites, is changing. So I slightly touched on it, but why do we talk about ethics and morals in web development, or why should we? Well, first of all, we work with all kinds of people and a large variety of people as clients, as stakeholders, as colleagues, peers, and users. And within those groups, we find so many variations. And good websites, in my opinion, are those which are not only created well for performance and code quality, but also are accessible and have an ease of use and can be adapted. So before we get into what this might mean for development, what are the differences between morals, ethics, and law? Morals and ethics are often used interchangeably, but they are very different. And this is not just a philosophical argument. It's actually a fact that there is a difference between them. So morals are what you hold yourself to be right and wrong personally. So that could be down to your religion or religious upbringing. It could be a result of cultural norms, or it could be parental influence, or so on. It's not so clear fact. It's something that's dictated by you personally. Ethics, on the other hand, usually have more of a professional context. So, for example, the medical profession has its own ethics. Law has its own ethics, and teaching does. So this is largely professional standards and rules and what you may see in academia, for example, or in other professions. Law, very simply, we all know this, just very clear-cut regulations with sanctions for not following those rules. So it's more societal rather than something professional or moral. And they're not always in sync with one another. As we'll find when we think about GDPR and such, it may not be always in sync with... These concepts may not always be in sync with one another. So, for example, if we were to take one of these examples, or two, rather, experimental and animal pharmaceutical research, depending on the methods used, it could be regarded as ethical, but to many it may not be regarded as moral. And on the last example, well, same-sex marriage is still illegal in many countries. In fact, homosexuality is still illegal in many countries. But as we saw in the UK before its legalisation, we saw that there was a lot of public support for that. So we see it's sometimes legal. The law may not always be entirely on the side of morality or in all cases. So this is why these things are not so clear-cut. To write it down, why is this related to software development? Because it may seem to you guys that it's going off on a bit of a tangent, but it's now going back to the main topic at hand. So it's related because of accessibility, data collection and storage, any cultural sensitivity in the software that we build, translations, and to this I would say not only linguistic translations, but also localisation of the translation and ensuring it translates well to particular communities what you're translating for. Use generated content and, in more recent years, artificial intelligence. I'm sure you guys can probably think of more examples of how certain questions that come into play as developers, contract law is another example, which is thought of quite often. But I'll tell you, taking all of those things into context, why should we talk about this in relation to web and software development? Well, first and foremost, software is a huge part of virtually everybody's life, whether they believe it or not, in terms of mobile apps, in terms of websites, which, as far as I'm concerned, websites are just no form of software, and any desktop applications they use in professionally or personally or so on. And this is used around the whole world, and we see that users take all of all shape sizes, creeds and nationalities and so on. So it's important to ask certain questions when we are adapting software for new audiences or when we're building it for everybody. And more prominently, recent scandals in the tech sector have shed some light on some ethical questions, particularly around data capturing and security. And with many social network insights, we see problems with mental health awareness or problems with mental health of users. And artificial intelligence and big data is still in the very early stages. Obviously there is AI out there, but it's still pretty rudimentary. We're not yet at the stage where it's really complex, but we probably are at the stage now where we have to start asking questions about where it goes later on. The open source ethos, to me, has more potential than just sharing code and more potential than just being part of a community of developers working on a project collaboratively, which we have seen in the real world. We've seen board games and professional bodies that have an open source ethos. We've seen other sorts of media that have an open source ethos. So, and I think particularly word camps are like the open source ethos brought to life into a physical real world event. So, building software, which all these touches on that, is that now it's more than just writing code and more than just writing good quality code. We actually need to ask about usability and how it adapts to people with different levels of tech literacy and so on. And there is very real dangers of poorly-moderated user-generated content. So, whether within your application the content is, if users upload their own content, as in any social network we have used generic content, but even in terms of comments on blog posts or so on, there's certain questions to be asked about if you completely automate these comments, for example, on, let's take a very large WordPress blog, for example. Do you automate a lot of these comments on these posts or do you have them manually done or is it a mix of the two? So, yeah, in a WordPress blog it may not be as prominent, but particularly in things of social network insides, you find that these questions are much more pertinent. Now, if we were to take the moral and ethical concerns, they fall into four camps mostly. So, accessibility, data collection and tracking and the use of that information. So, not only how you store it and track it, but also how you use it. Is your company selling it to a third party? Is your company using it to deliberately market very specific advertisements to people? And I would go as far as say it's also the methods that you use, you probably need to think about. And any cultural sensitivity. So, if you are marketing, if your website is or application or whatnot is being catered to people not just in the UK or not just in the Anglesphere, you need to think about not only, first of all, about translating the content. First of all, do not assume that everybody using your site knows how to speak or read English, particularly if you are marketing it beyond the UK. And aside from that, also think about not only the translation, but actually how that translates culturally to the market that you're aiming this towards. So maybe you have a different version of a site for particular audiences. And also the moderation of used generated content for obvious reasons. This does raise some questions. Do we, for example, with political content on social networks, do we automate that moderation or do we have it done manually and what are the problems with either? Legal concerns, we know these so I'm not going to go into much. First of all, accessibility. There are laws particularly around public sector websites for accessibility. Data collection, security, user generated content and contract law. Now this, the trolley problem is something in sort of an ethics exercise where essentially the, you're presented with a scenario that a train is on a runway track about to kill five people. But you have the power to pull a lever and send it in the other direction towards one person. So you might be thinking, what has this got to do with code? Now think about it this way. So if you are at a crossroads and deciding what framework to use for something or how to approach a certain problem with features in your sites or if you're looking at how to, or even what sort of development process you use within your company, think how would, what benefits would the pathway taking have compared to going the other way and what potential benefits or shortcomings would that have? So I suppose in terms of full usability, you may find that, suppose you need to deliver a site very quickly and you take certain shortcuts and you deliver the features very quickly, you perhaps use some third party plug-ins to deliver that, but then you find that perhaps it's not been updated in a while. There are certain potential security flaws in there, but then on the other hand, you would need to take much longer time to do that project and it could be much more expense for the client or so on. That's a very basic example. There are others out there around, you could think about translations or accessibility and what may be some questions around that. So I'm going to go through some points on how you could be morally and ethically sound as a tech professional in my view. This is something that, obviously everyone would have their own thoughts on it and everyone would have their own opinions. I've led development teams and when I try to think about, rather than just the code and having good quality, I try and think beyond that, so is it what does it mean for the user and what does it mean in terms of the project as a whole. So when I think about accessibility first and foremost, I don't think about just in terms of building websites for visually and auditory impaired individuals. I also think of this around any language barriers, so translations comes into this if you're marketing towards a non-speaking audience, sorry, English speaking audience. And at different levels of tech literacy, I'm probably quite guilty of this, particularly early on in my career, where I would build an application or a website and because I knew how it worked, I tended to forget that not everybody had the same ability, so I had to go back and rewrite it and make it more simplified. So I think actually trying to emphasise a little bit with as many different users as possible and actually when you're building features, I think, well, will somebody have to go through more steps than necessary to achieve this task, or if you're building a WordPress site for a client in order to make some changes, would they need to do more steps than necessary? And ease of use generally and restriction of access where needed. So it should be easy to use generally, but then you need to make sure that there's adequate restriction of access where necessary. Secondly, I would say use good modern standards in your code and comment wisely. So just a show of hands, how many of us could admit that we've written bad code? And how many of you have written code that you then went back to later on and could not understand it? Yeah. So first of all, for that reason, obviously I learned this as well and if I'm being honest, I'm still guilty of it. I still write code that I later cannot understand or I still write code where I perhaps haven't written it in the best way possible. But I strongly believe writing good code has not only performance benefits, but it also shows consideration for potential colleagues who you're working with. So if you're going to write code, do not assume you're the only person who's going to be working on that because the chances are someone else will at a later time. And I think it shows good consideration to comment adequately. I mean, not huge blocks of comments. There's like a paragraph, but just having it adequately, so it can be picked up by another individual. And where I say modern standards, that's simply building code that can, that is future proof and can be adapted over time. So personally, when we're writing PHP, I try not to use so much procedural and I try to go more down the object-oriented or MVC route if possible. So that's on that matter. And test your code thoroughly. So this is where the sort of ethics comes into it. So all software has bugs. We all know this, all software has bugs. And you'll never be able to eliminate them fully, but you can at least minimise the chance of them causing a huge issue or at least minimise the chance of them popping up. It will always come up at some point because you can't be sure how the user might use your website in a very strange way and they might uncover something you didn't know of. But it's important to test very thoroughly because usually bugs are very harmless and at most they're just a mild inconvenience. But there are cases where they can be much more. In rare cases, they have caused death in certain applications and certain softwares. So the two examples I give here, much older, but these things do still occur. So the NORAD missile detection system, that was, I think it was a US missile detection system during the Cold War and it actually did have an error at some point that was caused by a bug in the coding and it showed that a missile was actually heading for them. So at that time, it came very close to causing a nuclear war. And the only reason it actually did not happen is because one of the lead programmers on that project actually fought back and realised that it's probably just a glitch in the system and then it was proven to be so. So it was averted. But that could have very easily gone wrong. Now, a case where it did go wrong, in a Ferrac 25, I believe this, is a radiation therapy for cancer treatments in the 80s. So essentially the software that would create a dose for those patients had a bug in it and it meant that many patients would get in up to 100 times the recommended dose. And there were at least three deaths because of that. Obviously in the medical sector, the software is probably a lot more likely to cause problems. But if you take it in terms of a domino effect, maybe your software, if it's not correctly tested for key things, it could have a domino effect and cause problems later on. So it's important to ask these things about when you're, even when you're building a WordPress site, I'd say you go, if this, is there sensitive data on here? If some bug led to it being breached, what could be the potential fallout of that? And following on from that, think of security concerns in your coding. So think as any potential hacker would. The first one, you'd be surprised how many times that does happen. If you're putting your code on GitHub or any Git repo, even if it's under a private repo, don't store passwords within, say, your WPconfig file or within, say, a Laravel project within the .env file. Because even if it's under a private repo, that could be passed on at a later time. So if you do have those files in there, I'd say any sensitive code within those files, replace it with placeholders and say on your production site, run a script to replace that with the real values. Also, if your application stores user data, I admit this until recently, this is something I wasn't always doing, but if it stores user data, when working in a development environment, I would say don't use real data. Use test or dummy data if necessary. So if that means on your development site, you have a test WordPress user accounts and test user data or so on, then so be it. It can be replaced in production. But obviously you don't know where that data could end up, particularly if it's sensitive. Test for security exploits. If the budget allows, hire a specialist and pen test it. Obviously not all teams would have the budget for that, and if not, then just test as thoroughly as possible. I touch on this area, so write your code as though you're writing it for somebody else to read, because the chances are someone else will read it and have to work on it at some point. I can think of the number of times where I've been working on a small plug-in or so on, and I assume no, I'll be the only person who ever works on this. I don't need to take these things into consideration, and then I trip myself up by not knowing what I wrote when I go back to it at a later stage, or then somebody else takes on that code later on and they have trouble understanding it. So I'll say always write with the assumption that somebody else is going to be reading it. Just to be ethical with your colleagues, I would argue, and even if you're the sole developer on a project, it's likely you will not be at some point, particularly if that project has a long life. At some point, you will not be the only developer on that project. Keep up the state with the latest technologies. Now, this is important for several reasons. First of all, for your own development, and just to keep yourself ahead of the curve, and primarily also to make sure you're building the best possible websites for your clients, and to make sure you're not using potentially outdated methods, which could also be insecure methods. And if you're thinking of it just selfishly, it is also for yourself and to add more skills to your belt. So I know it's very easy for a lot of developers to get stuck in, say, working with one particular framework or working with one particular CMS. But I do think there's a lot to learn from other communities, and there's a lot to learn from other areas of web development. And then to all new members of the community. So, again, there is a slightly self-serving thing to this, I think. Obviously, it's good to help new members of the community to learn from yourself if you're a more senior developer and to actually learn from each other if you're not more senior. And personally, I find that when I'm mentoring less experienced developers, I find it actually helps me to be a better developer. And it actually helps me to notice the shortcomings in my own skill set. So it's good, obviously, to make sure that we have more skilled professionals in the workforce in the future in, say, a few years' time and to make sure that they're equipped to help each other and equipped to build on their own experience and keep us having a steady stream of people entering the profession. And also, it does help to help yourself, at least in my experience, it helps me to mentor people. Embrace open source. So even if you're not contributing code, there's many ways you can contribute to open source. You can do testing. You can perhaps, if you're a designer, you could be designing some assets for these open source projects or giving a talk at a conference or so on. So I think it's important to contribute to open source because I believe with open source, the more you put in, the more you get out of it. So if you're contributing code, for example, to WordPress, then you make sure that you're getting a better product back and the more people that actually contribute to something, the greater it can be over time. This is, I think, the same reason why the Linux operating system works so well because it's been over many, many years. Many people have contributed to it but are giving up their time to do that, and then they get a better product back. And the same with what's been done with WordPress. Many contributions have been put in and it's like an investment of your own time, so then you get something better back. And one of the second to last point, I'll say, is don't be afraid to term down projects that you have objections to. So these objections could be political, cultural, moral, it could be around the company's reputation, or it could be objections to particular industries. I think if a budget is permitting, or if, obviously, we all do need to pay the bills so I can understand why people would take on any projects, if you're in a position to, I would argue to ask some questions about would I take on this project and what could it mean for myself or my company in the long run if this project, well, if we took this on. My general way of thinking is I ask myself, is this a project that I would be comfortable admitting to on my portfolio? Or would I be comfortable actually telling anybody that I'm working on this? I, for example, for myself, I tend to avoid stuff that's too politically charged. That's, and I tend to avoid, like, the gambling sector and anything that's too politically charged, because, but other than that, there's not really many projects I wouldn't do so long as I think the company is reputationally sound.  And follow your gut instinct, lastly. So ask yourself if it sits right, if the project sits right with you before accepting it. Pardon me. Before making a technical decision, ask whether any users, clients, colleagues, or anybody else you can think of would be unfairly disadvantaged by this or would be put out by this in some way. And no potential moral or ethical issues around the software is too small to consider, particularly now where software is such a huge part of everybody's life and it intertwines in every aspect of our day-to-day lives. So I don't think any moral or ethical concern is too small to think about. It may seem very trivial, but then as we find often with applications and software, a lot of them have caused some very large social changes. And at the time when they were built, these things probably would not have been thought about. But it's important to think about perhaps if you, I would argue even if you write the code in a certain way, what could that mean for performance? What could it mean for adoption? Or what could it mean for passing that feature across and how it's delivered? So my last point is thank you and let's all try and make the internet and our profession a better place. That was wonderful, Chris. And also I feel like it's very timely with AI about to take over all of our lives. Folks, have we got any questions for Chris at all? Questions, questions, questions. Okay, I'll kick off then.  In my career, it's been mainly around data capture. And perhaps clients want into farm a lot of data on users and their browsing habits. Often they say it's for marketing, but it seems like it's kind of unnecessarily wanting to. So the way I came across that is just, I think this was before GDPR, but I simply had a frank conversation with the client and asked, well, why do you exactly need to know what they're browsing when they're on your site, say tomorrow, or why do you need to know that? And once you have a frank conversation with them, I think they realised that a lot of the stuff they wanted to collect on users, they probably wouldn't really have much use for it. And it would just be a bit creepy, to be honest. I would say that's probably the biggest moral thing I've had. The other has been around looking at competitors' sites and trying to see what we could copy from that. Thanks a lot of senses. Have we got any other questions at all? One right here. That was very interesting, thank you. Do you have any view on the kind of sentiment that sometimes expressed, I think it came from Zuckerberg, of kind of move fast and break things? Oh, sorry, can you repeat that? Do you have any view on the ethics of the sentiment, development sentiment of move fast and break things? Yeah. In development, I think that's fine. It's, I mean, obviously in a development environment, that's totally fine. That's why we have development environment, so we can break it apart and actually not worry about the implications of it. However, on the other side of that, I think my concerns are rushing software, which has been something I've had to push back a lot with some clients and stakeholders that is particularly from maybe non-techy staff who are making decisions, there's often an urgency to push this stuff into production, which I think is quite dangerous because it could be stuff that's not been well-fought out, it could be stuff that causes problems elsewhere. And my thoughts on it, in development, it's fine to do it fast and break things, but when you're actually pushing things to production, I think no application is too small to have a proper development process that goes from dev to staging and then live. Any other questions, folks? With the emphasis these days on environmental issues, obviously the internet and server farms and all the client devices consume a huge amount of power, what are your thoughts on that and do you have any suggestions for what we as developers can do to make our sites more efficient, use less power both on the server, in delivery and on client devices? Sure, so I think first of all, is if you're looking at the code specifically, have code that's actually efficient and does more in less, so that's partly why I stay away from procedural programming, I try and go class-based and MVC, so obviously you get the performance benefit from that, but it also means the server is using less resources, which means less power. On one server, it could be quite a minimal saving in power, but if every site was built in that way, it would mean less resources being used on a server farm. Aside from that, I would say if one is able to, then perhaps move the site or software to one of the green hosting companies that are becoming, it's just quite a growing industry now. Any more questions? Okay, I think that's it. Good stuff, so that was a wonderful talk. Please give Chris a wonderful round of applause.


Going on everyone Sam here with late in sports car driven Six boxes of 23 bowman chrome baseball hobby for Tom C. So good luck here Tom. Let's do it, buddy No, I saw it I saw with one of them and then there's one at the end and then I start That's a super frassy Tom C edition. Let's go I'm eating great What's this which said Portland is finally a protest league off to challenge rezola's the lost Oklahoma City. No, no, no better to cash better to cash back off Portland Why is it green to 499? They still yes. Oh, so bill looks guys says tech because he tried to call a timeout before a double dribble on amphony Oh, and they're trying to contest that.  Yeah, it's not happening Cam Collier came to the league for spirit already super I'd say Edison Paulina, Luis Guarnipa Brandon Maia Brian a brave to for dining on refractor Jones Justin Crawford Never seen the team Try petition loss say it wasn't a loss. That's right That's interesting Tom sees that that's right. Oh, yeah I just realized I was gonna say I don't think he's in this. Yeah, we were gonna be nice, but That's a red shimmer your entry Vargas Six of ten. There we go. Tom. Congrats, baby. There we go Look at Timmy called that right literally packed before let's go dude. Good stuff there. It's Tom big card Actually six of ten you entry Vargas. That's fire. That's sweet, man. That is sweet Rodriguez Cabanero Right, I don't feel you refractor I don't feel a ds to 4.99 That's fire base and base Chris Bryant to 4.99 Well, but Francisco brother Guerrero Vinnie Pascantino to 2.99 You know Let's go to be her catch Who's that her catch so Miguel am I at a 75 for the Cubs solace One in 1600 packs. I love it. Geez go Sampines monster. Yeah, we are Going some nice stuff. I'm sure Couldn't do without kyle max knew them could not do it That is a one benjamin to 125 first First base auto yosi galan for the rangers You know like I just thought about like, isn't it don't you find that kind of weird that there's retails a regular Bowman, but not chroma draft.  I have to chromegas, but yeah, they don't have the oh, yeah, sure. That is jackson holiday. Yeah, I don't know why that is On the ascension. That's odd man francesca and base Yeah, this is very bizarre to me Refractor pirata to 4.99 I don't really know what they make the difference use you do the super jumbo jumbo that and it tries me nuts Like between the sets because then you have like refractors are numbered in two of them, but they're not draft like Uh gold shimmer Javier revas to 50 the pirates Watch green roman anthony Junsock shim to 2.99 white speck a lot of for the pirates Where is it? Oh, I'll stir it up and look at this Damn That's amazing how they can do that. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's crazy That's what I was saying, uh, whenever james comes in with the computer as a strike, so I'm like they can do that Yeah, right They should be able to Honestly Guanipa and they don't even have a lot of times we'll have the people out there He says like a safety, but they don't even use it. They just have that the people, you know, I'm sure that's more improved because of that. Yeah Yeah, like what are you arguing with the The camera Can you use you picking up the uh royals and stated club tomorrow? I'm excited for stated club, man I always like stated club. Yeah, we've talked these far To 150 mic trout Trying to see some dope pictures. I know that it is really cool. There's been some really good ones recently too Uh, brunt wisely to 4.99 first refractor auto before the race I know I know I know it's gonna be I mean, it's gonna be tossed with the red now out of the question, but I've realized him was going both Right and a super. Yeah All right, let's go. Let's do it. I'm in manual bonnet Raj Garyas Turio and Marco Luciano Blue of harry fort to 150 great britain and the manners Look at really nice yamamoto to super low number of yamamoto down with that First shimmer of edwin solano for the gnats Harry fort sip and the tea is pretty far. What's up? Harry fort sip and the tea goes pretty hard as first base auto conor stain That's when their rocks melt in and you want to Vargas first his teammate trace tomson is british Play tomson is british There you go, timmy Get only three orders in queue after this if you want a personal feel free. We have time allows your green to 4.99 Um, totally up to you guys If not no big deal will end uh now we got kyle, of course ripping a bunch tomorrow first base auto amari daniel for the twins Cabba and base i have to imagine stadium probably being stopped the most tomorrow to No, yeah, carter young That is a brella. Guerrero pretty cool one there 275 orange yellow wave Rays basin base Purple shimmer to 250 jason shurio guardians First base auto aiden sanchez that'll be going to the cubs 299 gabriel gonzalez There's got a lot. I'm watching on golden It's not really already got like 130 bids or 130 dollars worth of winning bids right now Say 130 gallon to 150 jordan walker rookie I need the gond set up. I know Rainer rs first. I really do always is always Trash list this week so far Rough draft up there. I forgot who though Purple victor is tourist the 250 the guy colored in the spencer's trust. I know Now yellow a lot of time last night. Yeah, he's Highlighting the man last night. Why don't you play my uh Jacob melton to 499 and atomic auto to 100 joey orteez Nice one there, uh, tom for the orcs or that was a rocket too thirland thompson 152 kilometers seems fast. Yeah a non-serve Atomic of tomorrow johnson to 150 Served at 212 kilometers that one. Oh my god, it's through his right He almost hit the other guy Seems good.  Yeah, that is a devison de los anthos shimmer One guy hit it the other day Yeah, what he was throwing a racket at the ball and he hit it out of the air. Really? It didn't go all the way over but he hit it out of the air Oh my god First base on okay hunter Rats on that one. Uh tom for the reds base and you aren't you vargas first Shot back behind him Last box here tom. Good luck buddy. Here's for torian super still at 15k The d-bag first they that has not surfaced yet. All right one of them hasn't surfaced yet. Let's see it Uh, mutatakama or a kami to 499 japan Should be coming over in a couple of years Future yankee right there. Yeah, probably And any andrew vargas tom for freddie freeman Earned his nickname the babe bruce of ego That means he's just death and being yeah, it's true Uh white speckle of jacob barry to 2 2 99 may our arias first base auto brian rin cone Fills for the fills going on Isn't this Still haven't got my ronnie stucky 101 Really? Nope. Did you figure it out? They sent me an email. They're like where's that? I just don't like it. Hey moustache. Let's go schwarz It's going on sir. The greatest stash in breaking right here. What's going on greatest stash in breaking right here Can I say? That is yasir mursadis. Yes, sir. Walk out first in genero a.k.a. denial So i'm saying schwarz fax no frinther exactly To our uh pink shimmer anderson de los santos to 199 And first base auto rubin sentina For the no mate energy that's been 4400 kilos That'll do it for your uh break there tom. Thanks again for the support buddy. You get them right out to my man


When I was the CMC a few years back out in Colorado I check in and check out what every sailor that comes through and I had a young man young sailor come into the office and second class and we go through you know the dialogue and at the end of it I said do you have any questions for me and he said yeah man chief I got one for you and he goes how do I become the top sailor in this organization very bold question very bold question outstanding question and it makes you sit back and think and just like you talked about mentoring earlier right that's a mentoring session right there what we're doing right now is a mentoring session every interaction that we have with one another is mentoring you may be looking at me as a senior mentor but I'm also looking to you as a mentor because there's qualities that you have their skills that you have that I don't have I look at that keyboard in front of you and I go you don't want me to touch that it will never operate the same way so you know when he asked me that question I had to think about it hard and I didn't want him to walk away not receiving anything so and to tie this to the precept in all you know I told the young man I said go out and look how the top 10 20% of this organization are operating today observe them see what they're doing see what they're engaged in how they carry themselves every day as leaders as technical experts as community managers as ambassadors out there personal development in their lives whatever it may be and the precept talks about all these things and I said what I want you to do is observe but don't do what they do they operate they get involved in the things that they get involved in because it's what they want to do they're passionate about it and if you try to mirror them you may not have that same passion because it doesn't interest you the way it interests them so if you're gonna get involved in something get involved in it because you want to do it you want to make it better than when you got it so that the people around you the people that are impacted by these programs that you're involved in they're gonna be better the families are gonna be better because all your engagement with it and that's the message that I left with the young man