And the very good afternoon,和 comprehend if there's one subject in some shape or form that we all know and have dealt with in some description ah, it is of course the question of climate change but every bit of research also shows that whilst most people realise the significance and the importance of climate change and there's nothing that is going to bore them faster or make them run in the opposite direction, Dyna'r ystod yn fawr o'ch gweithio gyda'r cynyddiadau, mae'n fawr o'ch gweithio'r cymhwyno, ond nid oedd yn fawr o'r cymhwyno'r cymhwys. Yn ystod, cymdeithasol ar gyfer y gweithio'r cymhwys yn fawr i gyd, ac yn fawr fath o'r cymhwys sy'n ymdyn nhw'n ddiddordeb yn ei wneud. A rydyn ni'n ddiddordeb, sy'n ddiddordeb o'r cymhwys gwahbeth hefyd, ac mae'r cyfwys ar gyfer y war i'r ffordd o'r cynorth a'r ysgolwyr yn ysgolwyr, rwy'n credu i'r cyrraedd am y dweud yn ddweud. A fyddwn i'r meddwl i'r ffordd. Roedd ydych chi'n gwneud arall y bydd yma, a oedd yn ymdweud yn ei hunain. Mae'r cyfan o'r panel ar gael i'r ysgolwyr yn ysgolwyr yn ysgolwyr, felly mae wedi bod ni'n gweithio. Pryddo'n ni'n cymaintio'r bobl, ac mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r pethau. Ond y byddai yn dweud y bydd yn ddweud y mynd i gael y cymryd? Yn oed yn ddod i'r ffordd gan y byddai'r cyfrydau, maw'r nodi'r byddau. Mae ydych yn ddweud y byddai'n ddweud yn ddweud, maw'r nodi'r byddau yn ddweud, yn ddweud y byddau'n ddweud. Mae wedi'n gwybod i'r dyma. Felly, mae'n meddwl i'r pandel. Mae'n meddwl i'r ddweud. Angozia Condiwio Iwala yw'r ysgolwyr yma o'r organiad yw'r ysgolwyr, a'r ysgolwyr yma o'r drosbwyllion yw'r weff. Fawr, ma'n fawr. Vanessa Neccati, yw'r ysgolwyr yw'r ysgolwyr ar y clywodau. Rwy'n credu i chi'n ffawr i'r ffawr, oedd yna? Y ffawr ar y clywodau. Yn ymwysg? Rwy'n credu i'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr. Rwy'n credu i chi. Rwy'n credu i chi. Chris Doffschreidt, yw'r cefwyr ymwysgol, y CEO yw Boston Consulting. Yn ymwysg yw'r ysgolwyr yw'r ysgolwyr ar gyfer y dyfodol? Yn ymwysg yw'r ysgolwyr ar y dyfodol, dwi'n ffawr i'r ysgolwyr yw'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr i'r ffawr. Anish Shahrswyrthes, y ymwysgol ym hydrwyng yw CEO yw'r hynod hynod yng Nghymru, i'r cymdeithas yng nghymru, i'r Cyngor ymddangos Gweithfawr. Anish, y ddigon ni'n rwy'n gweithio'n gweithio ymddangos yma? Is there a lot of action has been taken already, but that is not enough? It's not about individual actions, it's about collaboration and working collectively, because the goals we've set are bold and we need to find a way to meet them. y Cymru allanodd, eu newidio Llanol o'r llyfriddio Climus Cymru. Aarfodd hyn, mae'r llyfriddio Llanol yn meryddiaeth cymru sydd yr alian ble gyda'r llyfriddio Llanol, o'r llyfridio Llanol. Dwi'n arddangos, ymrwyng ymddir, ond ei fod yn fwrdd. Mae'r llyfriddio Llanol yma efallai 120 o'n amser i gynhyrch gyda'r ymdiliadau cyhoedd. Felly, mae'r llyfridio Llanol, mae'r llyfriddio Llanol, yw'r llawr o'r ffordd, ond byddwch i'r ffordd o'r gweithio'r cyd-fodol. Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r cyd-fodol i'r gweithio'r cyd-fodol. Rhyw gyrraedd gennyn nhw'n gweithio'r gweithio'r cyd-fodol yma. Mae'r ymddindigol yma yn ddweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r cyd-fodol, eithaf y Parys a'r Cod 26. Mae yna allan oherwydd a'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. ystod yn eich iechyd i gweithio wneud o favourite ar y blaenau i'w wneud. Gweithio'r iawn ddod o'r wneud i'r fadau'r hwn? Mae'r fadeigad hefyd i chi Rychell, mae'r gweithiannau ei geithfain i gael, ac yn y rymde – ychydig yn y gwirionedd yma – yn eich rhan i eich gwirionedd yn ôl yn y Gwyrdd. Rydyn ni'n rhoi chi'n arddangos yn cyfraffol i gael gwirionedd o'r ddangosol a'r gwirionedd mewn gwirionedd i'r gwirionedd – Hyderd Where is Moving southwards and conflict between Hyderd and Farmers, it's intensifying, and, it's all being due to climate change.  If these people... If we don't take action, you'll have a set of people who are climate migrants who have to go somewhere. So I'm just using that as one example. You saw the floods in Germany, You saw the fires in Australia. In California. Mae'r cyfnod yw ymddech chi'n gwaith. Beth yw'n eich bod ni'n clyw o'ch chi ddweud hynny? Ynno, mae'r cyfnod yn olygu yn y cyfrifnol cyransol. Ynno, mae'n gwybod, yna ymddangos cyfrifnol, ymddangos cyfrifnol, y pandemig, ymddangos cyfrifnol, ond rydyn ni'n dweud bod yn ymddangos cyfrifnol arall, rydyn ni'n gwybod eich cyfrifnol ymddangos cyfrifnol. Can I come in on that, please? Just jump in, please. Don't wait to be invited. Yeah, I think that it's really important to understand the intersection of this crisis. And when we talk about climate change, we are also talking about food insecurity. Because, for example, look at the Eastern Africa drought that has left more than 26 million people with no access to food. So there is definitely a connection with food insecurity and climate change. When we talk about poverty eradication, as families are continuously losing their homes, sources of income, their farms, they are being driven into extreme poverty. As children drop out of school, this poverty moves on from generation to generation. So we understand that we can't even eradicate poverty without talking about climate justice. Nobody doubts the significance of the issue. My point is how do you continue to emphasise that significance when there are so many other things that arguably are more pressing? It starts from understanding how these things are interconnected. It's like we are in one system and if one part of the system is broken, eventually the whole system comes crumbling down. So we are in this room and where you are seated has a hole in the roof and it starts to leak. If I don't do anything about it, eventually this whole room will be filled with water and we will all be impacted. So I have to fix what is on where you are seated for the benefit of all of us. So if we talk about the climate crisis, we are also addressing food insecurity. Just give us the CEO view of the difficulty and don't tell me you are doing it. Tell me the challenge of maintaining the climate agenda or the climate action when there are so many other pressing issues for the company. Richard, the challenge for most CEOs is that they have to deliver results that their investors want and the question will be does this come in the way or not. But that is where we really need a paradigm change because we've always believed that purpose drives profits and therefore you have to start with purpose. We started our climate journey in 2008. So actually we have been taking a lot of actions with regard to climate change and as we've gone through that journey, we found that it will actually deliver results. So for us, if you were to ask me my top three priorities for the Maindra Group, which is in 20 industries across 100 countries with 270,000 people, climate change is among the top three priorities for us. Chris, your clients and the people you work with, what are they telling you about the difficulties of maintaining the climate action? And the reason I'm not trying to be unduly pessimistic, but everybody in this room by virtue of the entrance ticket to this room agrees with the importance of climate change. What we need to understand is the difficulty of maintaining the action at a time where there are other priorities. So if you just go back the last two to three years, Richard, I think you described it in your opening, right? I mean, most corporate leaders, I think many of the people here at Davos had their hands full navigating through COVID. They had their hands full navigating through the Ukraine and Russia and secondary tertiary effects of that. It just absorbed a lot of managerial attention. I do think that's no good reason, however, right? I mean, there are practical necessities that we are all facing and that I see with our clients. But I mean, in the end, we are just running out of time. I think you are very much pointing in the right direction here. I mean, it's just an interconnected set of issues and climate change is one of them, but it goes much further. And so, look, if you take all this, what does it take to make sure we move faster? I think there are a couple of mechanisms that I'm observing with the clients that we work with. There is one reason for optimism, which is there's a true generational change happening amongst the CEOs and senior leaders. I think if you become in charge of a company at this point and you expect to lead this for the next three, five, seven, ten years, ESG and commitment to climate is not optional.  You will not succeed. In fact, you will fail utterly if you don't deliver on the agenda. It's very different than if you put something on paper and, you know, in two years from now, I'm going to be out of here. I think it's a very different level of commitment. The second point, and I think it ties back to some of the talk here at Davos, we are in incredible talent scarcity everywhere in the world in most industries. Also in types of jobs that we never anticipated would be scars and where talent would be scars.  We have done a talent survey around the world on a global level. Roughly 50% of people who graduate from university, Richard, are looking at the serious commitment of the employer. But then, I mean, you are just not going to get these people if you don't. So I'm optimistic about that. And then the third thing is it is just becoming also financially truly costly. I mean, if you look at energy prices, the price of the emission certificates, if you look at the fact that you now pay higher interest rates if you are not moving on the ESG side, I think there's a real economic cost. That's why I'm optimistic. Richard, I'm going to jump in here without invitation if that's okay. If you wait for an invitation, you'll wait a long time. Then I'm going to jump in after. No, you're not because just hasn't had a chance to and he wanted to jump in first. So I'll jump in after him. You can jump in later. So I would agree with Christophe that it's not optional anymore. Having been in dozens of conversations, especially over the last year on this topic, I see a lot greater momentum and I see major leaders around the world completely on board with the question that they have to act. So the bigger question, though, is not whether this is important or not. It is what are the types of actions can we take that actually make a difference? Because for us to reverse the 1.5 degrees that we have to, what we do at the marginal level is not going to work. We do not have the technologies today to be able to meet our commitments for 2040 or 2050 to be net zero. And therefore we have to collectively act. So therefore the bigger question is how do we collectively act? Right. And then I'm going to jump in. Is that allowed? Go ahead. Fantastic, thank you. I would just start by agreeing on two things. I hear from more and more CEOs today which is an interesting thing that there is a myth that CEOs or big companies wouldn't be driven by purpose. And I see it's getting more empty on the platform with people who don't express why they're in this, and why this, in spite of the calamities we're experiencing, is important for them as persons. We hear about co-workers, colleagues, the motivation to attract the best. And if I can add there, if you want to be relevant for consumers, not only tomorrow but already today, you're in trouble if you're not a leader in this sphere. But what I would like to add maybe to the conversation is which is also a big misconception. Most of this is going to make massive sense for business. And I don't have to add taxation that is going to be a big issue down the road in a couple of few years only. But to miss the opportunity to be climate smart means not being resource smart and not being cost smart. So the business side of this is the thing that I believe is going to drive the speed in this more than anything else. Now I can jump in. I just took a breath. I like this one now. She'll take a moment. It's not going to happen again. So don't take a breath while talking. Now you've had all the everybody's child up, we have to do it now. Now let's, a little bit of realism. Perhaps the reason why, at least from this point of view of governments in poor countries, they have to attend to the crisis quote unquote now and they may discount a bit the climate change. It requires financing. It requires money to tackle some of these problems. And so they have to make, as a former minister of finance, you have to make trade-offs right there. Am I going to look for how to take care of the people who are being hit by the food crisis right now because I don't have enough resources? Or am I going to do something else? So the world had promised or developed countries, let me pull back, that to help tackle this climate change there would be $100 billion a year to help poor countries meet the costs. That hasn't been done the way it should be. So I think you have to also look at that angle and it's not talked about as much. It needs money to be able to do this. OK, so, John. No, I think the money, I think it's a disgrace personally, that the world hasn't been able to match the $100 million. And what I understand is that we will need much more than that of course in the transition. But one thing that I would like to add to the conversation is we are already into action. One of the barriers that we are hitting as corporate leaders is we need support from policymakers to enable quicker decisions of weak farms. We will come to that in a second. I want to stick with the money, OK? $100 billion was promised. Yes. Per year? Per year, yes. Times have changed a bit. Absolutely. Since it was promised. There was a pandemic. There was a pandemic and what happened, Richard? We suddenly saw $14 trillion. We suddenly saw massive fiscal stimulus. Money coming out of everywhere. Which was necessary? I agree completely. It was the right policy response. But then it has bred scepticism. If the developed countries could come up with that amount of money in this short amount of time, what's $100 billion compared to $14 trillion? So the times have changed. But those times have changed in asking more questions. Why can't we come up with this money? Right, but we're also going into an era now of higher interest rates, high inflation, where the money is going to be even harder. It will be even harder for the poor countries. Many of them are already debt distressed. So yes, there are no excuses. There are no excuses on this. So my take is the financing challenge that you mentioned in particular for the poorer countries is very real. I don't think there's a way to dismiss that. I would also challenge the western world, the developed markets.  I do think you can get a whole lot of capital for a whole lot of things and I do think it's possible. I do think that's a cheap excuse in my mind. I would also just observe that more and more corporate leaders are basically realizing that the political and the governmental part is not going to help because the political cycle is one depending on where you are for years, five years, six years. Investing into climate action typically doesn't yield easily measurable and demonstrable results in that thing. So the corporate leaders basically say, well, okay, I give up, I move myself. We have great examples in some markets in Germany. For example, the German Industry Association BDI basically put together their path to net zero because they got incredibly frustrated that nothing is happening. So they came to the government and put a paper in front of them and said, look, this is what we could do. This is what it would cost. That became essentially one important input for the coalition agreement in Germany. I do think this whole kind of corporate world waiting for governments in general, I think is going to be a dead end. I really encourage corporate leaders where they can to move faster and to not wait. I also think there's really a huge responsibility on the global north to provide the climate finance that was promised. And also there is a demand for a compensation fund for loss and damage as well. We know who caused the climate crisis and we know who needs to pay for it. So loss and damage is something that is already happening in so many communities across the global south. The climate crisis is pushing people to places where they cannot adapt anymore in just a minute. Hang on. If you do loss and damage, do you not open a can of worms that makes it much more difficult to get consensus? I'm not denying the loss and damage, but I'm saying the moment you start looking for basically reparations for previous actions as opposed to solving the issue so we don't make the situation worse, don't you create a bigger problem that could distract? But loss and damage is not happening in the past. It's happening right now. So what we are demanding for is for right now. We're not talking about cultures that have been lost in the past. Cultures are being lost right now. People cannot adapt to the loss of their cultures. People cannot adapt to the loss of their islands and the loss of their histories and the climate crisis is pushing people to these places. So what do you want by way of loss and damage? I don't mean a number. Who are you looking at to pay that bill? I'm looking at the worst to pay the bill. Richard, the World Bank has estimated that natural disasters are costing about $390 billion a year. So that's quite a bit of money. And that's why countries are saying, you know, poorer countries, we need money for adaptation, mitigation, but we also need resources to help all the assets that have been destroyed. We need to stop that from happening. I'm not suggesting, yes. I'll jump in here again. I completely agree the funds are required, but if I were to look at what is the goal, we've got to get to net zero. By 2050 at the latest. For that, we need to start taking a number of actions now. Let me take two examples of actions that have been taken that have been meaningful, one at the government level, one at the corporate level. If you look at India, solar power in India today is at 2.7 cents per kilowatt hour. It has come down in magnitudes. The country had set a target to be 20% renewable energy by 2030. That was met nine years ahead of schedule in 2021. The target has now been increased to 50% by 2030. And the goal that is being set for the cost is going down from 2.7 cents to 1.3 cents by 2030. So that's tangible action that has been taken already. Second, if I were to talk about corporates and talk about what Myndra has done. While we started a journey in 2008, we set targets for 2025 for energy productivity to be 100% or double productivity by then to have renewable energy at 50% by 2026. And where we stand today, we achieved 74% of energy productivity already. And we are at 45% of renewable energy. We are at 45% of renewable energy. We are water positive today as a group. I'm still going to miss the target. No, that's... I'm at the 1.5 degrees. We're still on track to miss the climate. I admire the successes, but what I want to hear now from you all is this idea that it's all about... It's not so much I'm out about grand policy statements. They've been Paris, et cetera... Absolutely. ...but they were Zoom. It's the gritty gritty of execution. What's the difficulty? Well, I say, of course, it's an array of challenges. And I just want to, of course, acknowledge that the aspect of adaptation, mitigation needs to co-exist. We need to be able to have all these conversations at one time. So I think, for me, it's not a can of worms. It's actually the reality we need to approach. And there are dilemmas in that. Again, on the side of reaching, striving and working towards the 2030 and the 2050 target, which I think few companies will stand up and say it's easy, because when you open up to scope three, you're full-value chain upstream from your raw material to consumer. You will have headaches, you will have dilemmas, but you will also have opportunities. And then comes, as you said, to the nitty gritties. It's about how do we get access to permits to get wind up? How do we change the policy, when we think that Netherlands have done, when it comes to mattresses, which is a big part of the climate footprint in my business, so that we actually can recycle, not only our own old mattresses, but every old mattress. How do we change into a sustainable consumption model? And again, I think I'm very hopeful we are going to do it. The thing that stresses me is more that the clock is ticking, and we don't have a lot of years now to turn the trend. Why domestic? Can we also please, no, just a moment. Talk about the need to put an end to all new fossil fuel investments, because I'm not hearing that conversation. You're looking at me? I think it's a brilliant conversation, we have to end it. But I feel like it's really missing from this conversation, because if we are to talk about the need to limit global temperatures to 1.5 degrees Celsius, the IEA has made it very clear that we cannot have any new fossil fuels. That is oil, that is coal, that is gas. Can we talk about that? Talk about it? Let me, we can talk about that, but that brings us to another subject. I think it's very good. And one of the reasons why I think the world is not doing so well as it should, what you're saying is in spite of all these examples, it's not to scale, so we are not making an impact. First, countries are not implementing their national determined contributions the way they should. That's one. Two, we are also not being real in terms of the fact that there needs to be a transition. It speaks to the issue, fossil fuel, yes. But countries need to have a transition. Look at what is happening in Europe and the dependency during this war. So what do you ask for this about that? So no new investment, you want to stop all new investment in any form of fossil fuel extraction. Yes. And what percentage of our current energy production comes from fossil fuel? Well almost all the energy comes from fossil fuel. So those companies that currently are the providers of, which I know anyway from my business coverage, are finding it extremely difficult to get investment. Boston Consulting will tell us that it is very difficult to find investors who will invest in fossil fuel production, correct? It's getting harder and harder, yes. Is it hard enough? I think that's the dispute. But that is still the principal form of energy. So you've got two choices now. I'm trying to get you to be realistic here on this. Yes, in the same way in Europe with the sudden decision to produce more coal because of the lack of oil coming from Russia. It's a fine argument to have. But one of the panel, one of you take this argument at what point do you suffer? What point do you look down to the camera lens and say to the public, I'm sorry, but you're going to have to suffer? OK. You are talking about the need for Europe to invest more in coal for energy, right? No, at the moment. At the moment. And I just really want to comment on that. Now I'm talking about the need to replace Russian oil. Therefore, there was this suggestion and the idea to increase the production of coal in some cases. Even though there was going to be a bad effect as a result. Let's talk about what the climate crisis has done at the expense of the investments of Europe. Historically, the African continent is responsible for less than 4% of global emissions.  You said we talk about the reality. Let me talk about the reality. The African continent is suffering some of the worst impacts of climate change. We have seen cyclones from Cyclone Idai in 2019 that left more than 1,300 people dead. And many more were recorded as missing. We've seen the Eastern Africa drought that has left more than 26 million people with no access to food. And I feel like we are not talking about the reality. But the reality is, you're right. But the reality is to reach your goal, and you take this, Jesper, will involve a level of hardship. Jesper, Angosi, that... We have... Why don't we finish? Haven't asked the question yet. It will involve a level of hardship in the developed world that so far political leaders are not prepared to inflict. Yes or no? Yes. They are not prepared because politicians find it... They have to get elected. They find it very difficult, like now. You know, if the funding... I mean paying almost $800 million to $1 billion a day for Russian gas, it's very difficult to tell people who are going to vote for you overnight that you're not going to have gas for eating and cooking. It's very difficult to tell them that they have to make these hard choices. But sometimes, if you're a brave leader, you have to have the courage to tell people that these are the tough choices we have to make. So I fully agree. And I think, again, I cannot speak for the politicians in this case, being unelected in this position. But what I can tell you, which is I'm being brave now to be a bit optimistic again, we are on a massive high-speed course of decovernisation in our company. And it's not only the company such as the value chain with sub-supplies actually throughout the scope three. We have invested more in wind and solar than we consume as a company in totality. We haven't connected it in every node and dot yet. But it shows one thing that I would like to raise into this debate. It's smarter to invest in the new than in the old. That has to be also, even if there are some short-term measures that has to be taken, which I am not the most competent on, I'm sure that this crisis is actually pushing the agenda in the right direction. Completely, if anything, the Ukraine crisis has pushed Europe further and faster towards renewables and that. But Vanessa, that's not going to be enough, is it? I know that Europe is considering looking for gas in African countries, so that is not enough. And it's only because of the interests of Europe and the national security concerns of Europe. Can we, for a moment, discuss the national security concerns of the Global South? We have opportunities to invest in clean energy. Why aren't we taking that direction? Why are we still thinking about opening up new coal power plants or gas or oil? Yet it's only harming communities that are least responsible for this. You may bring the investments in Africa. You are the ones benefiting. We are the ones who suffer the impacts. And, Gozy, why is this in the sense that there is a vast difference between the demands, the instant demands of the developed world, and the developing world at the moment? And they don't seem to be able to be easily reconciled. Well, they don't seem to be easily reconciled because of the short-term outlook of policymakers and politicians. So they want to serve the people at the moment. It is very difficult when you are elected for a certain number of years to think, for the next 10 years, you have to be exceedingly brave. And some leaders do that. We've seen leaders make very tough decisions that serve their country in the longer term. So the short-term wants and needs of the Global North, the fact that sometimes renewables may not be sufficient base load power for manufacturing, and you're talking of getting people out of jobs, may lead them to these decisions. Now, on that point in terms of short-termism of politicians, there is an element of short-termism of CEOs. The average tenor of a CEO is how long? Three and a half years? Five years. Half a year longer than politicians. I think in the US it's about three and a half currently. But when you are charged with turning a company around, improving the balance sheet, dealing with the stakeholder economy, whatever that might be, the temptation is you know you've got to do these things, but you'll get round to it. I would offer a very different perspective on that, Richard. Let me look at it from the selfish angle of a CEO. One of the key things that a CEO is concerned about, talent, investors, delivering results. How do we attract talent? We attract talent by having a purpose for the company. That's why people come there. That's why I've joined the Maindra Group. That's why many of my colleagues have joined us. Second, as we think about delivering results or investors, let me come to that first. All our investors are asking us about what are our real actions on ESG. We're attracting investors by actually being committed to it. This is not about being committed on paper or talking about it. You've actually got to deliver results on that front. If we look at financing projects today, if I were to think of building a coal plant today, not that I would, I'd find it extremely difficult to get anyone to finance it. But if you're thinking about financing for EVs that we are doing for our solar companies, you've got a line of financers clamoring to get in. That world has changed and that has changed dramatically in the last 12 months. The third part I mentioned about delivering results, none of this is stopping us from delivering results because, as Jasper has said, you've got things that are actually beneficial for the company. His actions in the Netherlands are actually commercially positive for the company as well. We found a lot of those things where there's a return on investment. We've done 2,000 projects in the last 15 years on climate change. We actually have a payback period of two and a half years per project on average and a return on investment from there. All of this actually comes together. This is not about us making a choice saying, do we do climate change or do we deliver profits? Actually, you have a purpose and that purpose will deliver profits. This idea of talent, which I think is worth looking at a bit more closely, because I've now done three panels today. The first one was on LGBTQ issues. The second one was on... Great resignation. The great resignation, people wanted to move, thank you. And the third one is countries. That same issue has come up again and again, which is employees, freelancers, whatever, they want to work for companies or bosses or enterprises where they can have an impact and where there is impact. How true is that, do you think, for you? I think it's massively true. We all are confronted with that every day today. I think there's also a bit of a realization of all the stakeholders that are confronting a company. On the consumer side, I do think you see some movement, but I'm personally relatively disappointed that the consumers are not a lot more demanding and vocal in terms of what they ask for in the product, et cetera. We all still buy cars, we all still fly, et cetera. There's a lot of reality that the consumers are relatively nice in terms of what they say, but then how much does that translate into manifest demand? I think there's more disappointment than success on that one. I would say for many CEOs at this point, the employee base and the recruiting base is much more limiting and traumatic in short-term. You lose people.  They leave to join climate tech startups. They go to ESG firms, et cetera, and I do think it is an incredible pull for talent. You see that also in automotive. You see it in consumer goods. I mean, where do people go? They go to companies where they feel, well, I have more of a positive impact, and it makes a difference. I think of all stakeholders, the investors and the employees are probably the ones that make the biggest difference. I feel is now getting more relevant is the whole kind of cascading of carbon reduction targets through the supply chain. So, I mean, we spoke about Scope 1, 2, 3. I mean, the reality is many, many companies have given some form of target. Just a reminder to anybody watching who's not familiar with Scope 1, 2, and 3. I'm sure people in this room are, but anybody watching Scope 1? Scope 1 and 2 are basically the things that the company produces or emits itself, and Scope 3 is upstream all the supplier emissions and downstream all the consumer or customer emissions. So, Scope 3 is the real complexity. I think most companies have a relatively easy time measuring Scope 1 and 2, but Scope 3 is hard. We did a survey a year ago, 1200 companies, most of which have communicated some form of target, and we asked for a self-assessment, do you really measure what you emit? What came back was 9% of the companies that we truly comprehensively measure. So, there's this whole target setting, pledging reality, and on the other hand, only 9% really measure what is truly coming out there. So now, what is happening, this is going to 20%, 30% relatively fast. There's progress, but now, as there is progress, I think one big lever to get carbon down in the supply chain is that IKEA, you go to your suppliers and you say, look, I've given a target. I need Scope 3 to come down. Can you please commit and do something? And you see that also with the automotive companies going to the chemical and metal producers. I think it's happening, but of course it also takes a bit of time. So, let's talk to Anish. Obviously, for a large company like yours, and indeed for users, the mechanisms of Scope 3 must be very difficult to actually to get into your supply chain and get the necessary information with integrity back, must be difficult. Not as difficult as it seems. And let me first talk about Scope 1 and 2. We actually not only measure it, but we have it audited every year. So, we've shown a 20% reduction in Scope 1 and 2 over the last two years. We've looked at where we will be in 2030 and we don't do anything more. And what are the actions we can take to reduce that? Scope 3, let me take the example of automotive. An average car will emit 35 tons of carbon in its lifetime. How do you reduce that?  That's still a lot. And while we talk about EV, that in itself is not the solution.  The balance 7 tons is what comes in from the materials. And this is where the first movers coalition is playing a significant role by having companies commit to certain targets to buy green steel, for example, to buy green cement. We have signed up for those targets now. And that's starting to create a demand for green steel because they are saying that if someone is going to buy, then we will put in the investment for the technology. And that's how you reduce that 7. So that is our roadmap. Maybe. Because your supply chain must be absolutely huge for all your products. Of course, like I would say in any consumer industry, it's huge and you have first, second, third tier suppliers.  And the thing is, that is also the beauty with it, that because the question is, are we mitigating a problem or are we redesigning economy? And of course we need to mitigate some parts. But to Vanessa's question, which I don't have a clue the answer, why would you invest in old technology for a period unless it's absolutely desperate, I could imagine, if you have the opportunity to invest the same money in the future. And the same thing goes, so it's not only to go to suppliers to say could you please do your part. It's rethinking what is a product, what is the material, how do you design it for separability, how do you create circular loops. And this is going to take a few years to get down the road, but it's going to make things more affordable and better as we take out carbon. I just wanted to comment that, you know, these efforts being made by companies is laudable. Everybody, we have to use every single tool we have. But we also need to think about whether we can look at common methodologies for pricing carbon, for taxing. Right now, every, it's good, let all flowers bloom. But sometimes it's not easy for businesses themselves when different jurisdictions have different approaches. It's very fragmented. Right now we have about 70 different carbon pricing and taxing systems in the world. Everyone approaching it in their own way. And I think that a good thing to do, particularly for developing countries and developing country businesses, can we approach it from a global carbon price perspective? Right, but there's different, obviously, different industries require different mechanisms for that. But let us set it. And then if we set a global carbon price with segmented, let me look at it on a country basis. Those that are poorer are facing a different price from the middle income, from the rich. There is a continuum. And those who don't want to come benchmark themselves against this. Well, first of all, the thing you're talking about is, frankly, your organisation, the WTO. Not just me. No, but you are the organisation that would put in place the negotiations for a more common... I feel we can be the place, yes. Why not? We have developing countries, we have developed countries. I think we are a proper forum to have this conversation. Because in doing this, if you don't involve developing countries who already feel that all of these things are a kind of protectionism, you will lose them. So I think it's the right place, but we can collaborate with the private sector to get their input with other multilaterals, and actually we are doing that with the IMF and the World Bank, and OECD. I want to talk about collaboration in a second, but Vanessa, this question of carbon pricing, which every industry is involved in, to me often seems like a good way of avoiding doing too much too quickly, because you're basically saying, if you pollute, you'll pay. And if you pollute more, you'll pay somebody else's carbon pricing. And that's a sort of a market mechanism for it. What do you think on the concept? Do you see carbon pricing as a con, or is a way to actually make an improvement? What I can say is that whatever thing that is done by companies, it shouldn't pass over as greenwashing. Because there is also a problem of companies saying that they are doing something, for example, embracing, for example, carbon pricing, and yet it's passing off as greenwashing. So I think it's really important that we weigh in on what is real action towards the climate crisis and what is passing off as greenwashing. There is something that was mentioned about mattresses, which I really appreciate. I think every action is important. But then what may be frustrating if the investments in fossil fuels are way, for example, you find that governments or business leaders will say they're investing in clean energy and say they're investing like millions of dollars. And yet trillions of dollars are going to fossil fuel projects. So it's really important to understand the heart behind carbon pricing or the heart behind whatever action that is taken so that it's not just doing it to please investors or to please shareholders. But you're really doing it for the planet and for the people. Yes, but then we're going to speak to some people from in the room. I will maybe add to that as well. When we make this economically right, it's going to be one of the best forces to drive it. Then I would like to say it to Nogosi's point. I think we all, the corporates, we welcome the standards. But as you said, we need to have coherent one standard if possible because it's so messy right now. When we have that standard, two things will happen. Many things will happen, but to Vanessa's point, greenwashing will be legislated against. So it's not going to be only a bad moral thing, but it's going to be a breach to policies. The other thing that will happen is that people are actually doing good things, will dare to speak up. Because today, all these great examples, you have to almost be a detective to find them. They're out there, but people are afraid of raising their voice because it's a bit unclear how you will be assessed when you do. And that's not good. I would agree with Vanessa completely. Greenwashing is an issue. And that is something that does need to be addressed directly. One thing that gives me some optimism on that front is in a conversation that a few of us were in at the World Economic Forum a couple of days ago. You've got the big four coming together to create a set of metrics that they will audit across a large number of companies. And that is what's really going to be a litmus test in terms of saying, is it greenwashing or is there real progress? And a number of companies have signed up for this already. And that list is expanding rapidly. Just to one last point on this. I think when it comes to fossil fuels, obviously you have a supply side. We need to talk about that. And Vanessa, you make the points there. We also need to acknowledge that there's a demand side. And you always run into economic chaos and incredible disruption if you try to work on one of these two and not on the other in parallel. And I do think all these mechanisms, carbon pricing, carbon border taxes, et cetera, are having an impact on demand. And I do think we also need to, to some extent, expect the consuming industries to get their consumption down massively. And I think whatever drives into that direction is going to be important. The room. All right. That's a question. You're more than welcome to make statements. You're more than welcome to ask questions. You're not welcome to make a speech. Right, the lady. Yes, ma'am. Hi, thank you. Speak up. So I hear a lot of talk about the big companies, but I work with really grassroots people and very small companies. And I see that it's still very, very hard to convince them to move. We are framing it positively, but do you have something to say about that? I don't know of you. Get some free advice from BCG. You'd have to spare fortune. You'd be more than welcome. I do think it's very real. I mean, look at this incredible complexity of measuring, reporting, getting certified, audited, all these things.  I think it's so hard if you are the family-owned business and you are basically even struggling to do your normal financial reporting at the end of the year. I think you are spot on. I think what we find in many industries is that the higher the share of small and medium enterprises in the supplier base, the harder it is to cascade the whole effort through the supply chain, and I think it's a very real challenge. Now, big companies start working with their suppliers to help them and also get them into a position to report and measure. You have multiple big customers. I mean, you get different systems, different tools, and it's becoming really complex. I think it's a very real challenge. It's one that concerns me a lot. And I think in some very heavy emitting industries, for example, if you look at the agricultural supply chain, I think it's going to be a big challenge for many years. Can I have two short comments on it just for the debate? Is that okay, Richard? Yeah, of course. Yeah, very good. I think you probably have a richer reality but I meet a lot of SMEs who really want to who are morally driven by this and they're looking for business opportunities. But they don't know the methodology. They don't know what scope one, two, and three is. So I think, and it's one of the things that I'm going to address myself and I know others as well, how to actually bring the incitimate and the methods to people and try to connect them because the engagement will be possible. I think I would love the debate on that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Richard. I'd like to see R&D money for removing cadmium, nickel, lithium from batteries to make them more environmental friendly and secondly also the elephant in the room, nuclear fusion, which will help replace fossil fuels. Are you in favour of it? Yes. Are you in favour of it? I think it's the elephant in the room. We need more nuclear power. Yes, we need more nuclear power. Having said that, I'm also going to say that your opening question was excellent. When you said how will you have climate become prominent in this battle with vulnerabilities? Right. I just want to say... No, please don't. I just want to say that improving climate action needs four things. Oh, dear. Decreasing carbon, decreasing emissions, decreasing waste and decreasing vulnerabilities. Everyone ignores the last. Are you in favour of more nuclear round the panel? Are you in favour of more nuclear? Do you think I've got to answer that question? I'm going to ask you a nice question. Come on. I think we need more information on that to make a call. There is a negative answer. Vanessa? Yes. Nuclear? No. Thank you. Go on, just keep talking. Thanks to Richard for being so flexible in the... So, as you're so flexible, my question is to you. No. Yeah, come on. I mean, this is... Of course, you've been playing an excellent role on the show that we have been seeing, but what happens with media? You're representing the public opinion. What does it cost so much? This is a cultural change and we need media to be helping here. Here we go. I'm just looking at the clock. It took about 45 minutes before the media got blamed for something. That's longer than I would have thought it was going to be. Yes. Thank you. My question is for Ngozi, because you talk about global commons. To me, carbon pricing is one way to shift the economic system, which does not appreciate the value of global commons. The carbon is maybe the only single currency in the market which tries to measure the cost of destroying the global commons. Is that possible, you think, that they also expand that measure to the broader natural capital to shift the market? I think so, yes. I think you can. I absolutely think so now, but we have to start somewhere. And we should do it. Maybe I'm an economist, but the only way to get people focused on things is to put a price on them as much as you can. That doesn't mean they don't have other value, but it gets people to pay attention. Can that work in time? Because the issue now, as I can see it, is not that we don't know something has to be done.  But can pricing and economic forces, per se, bring the necessary pressure in time? I think so. Look, we have brain power. If we decide to do this, then it shouldn't take time. I'm not saying it's easy. Get me, don't get me wrong. But we can do it, and it will simplify things for everyone. For countries, for businesses, and so on. Hi, I'm Shalee Sinar, a phrenicline energy company in India. Fantastic. We're doing great work. I saw you last time. Keep up the good work. I just want to say that, of course, we're talking about should we accelerate this transition, et cetera, but the question also is that what do we do where there is no energy? We're talking about an energy transition, but we should also talk about what do we do to the 13% of the world which has no energy? I think folks sitting on this... That's a different question. It's an important question. It's not in the sense... I'll take that back for a second, just that we need to focus on a just and a fair transition. That's an important part of this. That's what Vanessa was talking about. We can do more. We have foundations here, et cetera, and we need to think about that. You've got the last one. That'd be good. I am Pranshu from Karosamba, India. How do we price circularity? This is now a new challenge, and there's a lot of debate from all the work that I've done. It seems it is less than a percentage point compared to the average selling price of the product, but we are seeing almost no action at a grass root level in terms of creating collection systems, recycling, getting it back. Richard, can I please? This is my favourite topic. I believe that the energy transition has started and it's unstoppable. I believe that the mobility and transport transition may be still early days, but it's happening. The circularity needs to be pushed. The interesting thing is that I love to talk about until people fall asleep, but the cool thing is that that's the material of the future. That's the lowest price of raw material. If we remove policies to subsidise incineration, if we don't, the economy will never work. You talked about policies that were a bit more granular. If we address the policies to make it possible and shift subsidies from the bad to the good, circularity will happen very fast. I want to finish on this thought for the panel. The one change you're going to make in your daily life or in your life to help small things. You're all CEOs and government leaders and activists, so you have the power to make major changes for tens of thousands of people in the global economy. Get it. I understand it. But what's the one small change that you start with negotiations to give us about? I'm making the question as long as possible to give you time to think about it. Maybe anyone in the audience, one change, what's one change? Don't make a speech, I want the one change. No, sorry, one change. No, that you're going to make. I'm ready with mine.  Yes, because I'm doing it. Then it's not a change. OK, no, but I just started. Oh, fine. All right, and go on. This has to do with precisely the circularity issue, recycling. Right. Really committing myself to recycling. And it's not as easy. You know, we are used to use and throw away culture. So that's the change I'm making. Jew recycling. What's the one change that you're going to make? I've made so many changes. I don't know what else to change. All right. In my company, BCG, we have 1,600 partners who own the firm and who make decisions every day. Where we go, how we travel, how often we do that. Everyone of the 1,600 needs to see a display regularly, monthly or even weekly. How much these decisions are driving in current if you send your teams this way or that way, you hold a conference. What carbon does it trigger? I think in so many companies, if you measure things and put them in front of people regularly, I think it has a massive impact. And I mean, usually we look at it with way too few people, make it available to a much broader set of stakeholders. So forgive me the journalism. So the change you're going to make is name and shame your partners. I will name and shame the partners and also give them the reward if they make progress. Oh, so you're going to use the economic method. Name, shame and bonus. Yeah, I would say measure, incentivise and celebrate or shame if it doesn't work. I get. Sir, one change. The change I would make is measure my carbon footprint. What is that today? Where does that come from? And then set a target for reduction for that and then find a way to meet that target. I'm going to measure my children's carbon footprint. So what I'm going to do, that's too complex. No, I'm going to engage my 170,000 colleagues in my company to be ambassador, to know what I know and make sure that they can be proudly part of telling the story. That is such a corporate answer. No, it's a personal answer. I heard you said personal. Thank you. The director general has said you're said to be personal. It's a superperson, I think, for me. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, our panel. Thank you.


We are recording perfect No pressure the Any mistakes will be saved for posterity at this point and that's good to be plenty So the agenda for tonight is but Lee is going to Very briefly cover kind of what Chromeflex is And why it can be useful We're then gonna look at the installation process for Chrome OS flex And we can have some discussion and answer some questions during that process And then finally we'll have a session at the end just exploring flex once it's up and running to explore its capabilities its limitations And then answer any further questions you have at that stage before finishing up Going to share the recording afterwards. Yes, we'll share the recording afterwards. Yes Initially via the forum Okay, so without further ado, I'll hand over to Lee who is you had earlier is the proud owner of a PC Repair shop I believe he's presenting this evening. Hence the various computer paraphernalia in the background. This is my front room Right as well as the kind of right articles for PC pro and Bit questions, so we're really lucky to have a lead with us tonight Take it away. Thank you. Thank you. You may not say that by the end of this, but we'll get on to that later So, anyway, thank you very much for turning out on a on a Thursday evening to come and listen to me waffle on It really is very nice to see some new faces So Chrome OS flex, I've been playing with this for a few weeks now and I was really intrigued by What it is really and and and why it's suddenly out at this point in time now Some of you have mentioned the cloud ready stuff So we've mentioned Linux and obviously doing what I do day to day I see all sorts of frankly steaming wrecks of computers that you know have long been Sort of past their useful windows date because as windows Updates as we know and it progresses. It just seems to get a bit a bit slower I many years ago. I wrote that windows 10 was a bit like Elvis Presley and when it launched because I felt they put quite a lot of development to the launch of windows 10 like soft It was like a Elvis Presley in a leather jacket sort of thrusting its hips and it was quite live and now it's updated It's now very much into the vagus jumpsuit era of The Elvis Presley man and it's not quite as slim and live as it used to be and it really as most of you know because You sound like we all have similar experiences Making low powered hardware. It makes it really sweat and that's why Actually, I just happened to have these here. I spend most of my days Changing hard drives for ssd's and those things, you know, I'm absolutely perceived by this mainly due to The lethargy of windows. So chroma sx flex is a really interesting sort of proposition And I've been trying it on all sorts of really old hardware. So if you Now normally I'd refocus this so you just have to blur your brains for a little bit But as you see over that shoulder, I'm going to get this wrong all night. That's the 2013 mac That's really blurred. You can't see and that's running chroma s flex above it wrong side again That's a hp laptop, which is running a sixth gen intel. So not relic And behind me. I'll just dip down here. There you go. That's a Lenovo running a second gen intel i3 Which is about as Low as you really want to go on a windows 10 system these days now critically what all they've all got in common is Come the end of windows 10. They're from a microsoft perspective. They're all going in the bin. So it's it's nice to see some thing out out there that could Potentially take over and I know we have linux But in my business, I deal only with home users a bit like restart. You know, you mainly see consumers and Having done this for a long time 18 years now linux has never quite got to the point where I can hand it over to someone With not a lot of technical knowledge and think yeah, you'll probably be okay because they probably won't and I know Linux is a very very good piece of software But the moment you ask an average user on the high street to open a command prompt and type this in that you've lost them That they've gone. So chrome res flex is is a nice way of getting into the google eco system And I think it's got a lot of potential. It's not there yet as we'll we'll get to in a minute, but I'll I better I better show you some show you some stuff. Is anyone has anyone got any questions at this point? Good That's what we like Okay, now here we go brace yourselves because i'm about to do something exciting here I've no idea what it was There we go excellent now As you can see i'm about to bring up the the the google chrome screen and And as you can see i've got an absolute blank screen What this actually means in real life is for this project I bought the Our gato cameling and it is without doubt the worst piece of software I've ever seen in my entire life and I've been wrestling with this since four o'clock this afternoon So if you what there's going to be a lot of tonight is you talk talking amongst yourselves for a little while Well, I just restart various capturing pieces of software. So, uh, I hope You know, you all know a few songs or perhaps a few jokes and uh, and we'll we'll do we'll do what we can And and see if we can get this all worked out This is why also James is recording this because we will need to actually stitch this back together later to make it look like It was some sort of plausible piece of live stream Bear with me a second. I am extremely sorry about this. There is going to be quite a bit of this going on right Okay, looks like I've got something going on Do do do do do do do do and flip that I normally for 18 years I have Fixed computers in the privacy of my own little shop Without an audience. So this is this is quite a a different thing for me. So, uh, right, let me Do that and do that and do that right. Okay. Can you all see that? Yep, that looks great. Yeah. Yes. They chorused Wonderful. So, uh, this is a desktop for a Hewlett Packard Sixth gen i7 so it's a Old machine which I use day in day out, uh for doing various things. So again, it's a typical sort of machine Which is going to be in a few years time with its neck on the block from a Microsoft perspective. So it's the sort of thing that I I guess Is really what chrome is about Let me just cover one other thing just before we get into the nitty gritty, uh, and I will zoom in in a minute using the the magic of technology As uh, as james, uh mentioned I also write for a website called the big tech question and this weekend we published, uh, a couple of stories on how to install chrome reflex on a pc and how to install it on a mac. Um, and these are, uh, step by step guides of how to Actually what we're going to cover tonight and and how to do it. So Don't worry so much about making notes for tonight because it's it's going to be you have access to this if if you need it as well, so it's, uh It's it's it's quite a lot. It's quite a long process, but Most of you I don't think it'll be anything that you haven't really sort of you haven't really covered before. Um, right Shall we begin ladies and gentlemen? Um to do this you're going to need, uh, google chrome because it's a chrome system and to get the usb created we need the chrome um, we need the chrome software the chrome browser To get to where we need to go we basically have a look at the chrome store I'm just going to flip mouse it there we go and we go to the chrome web store which, uh, you if you go to chrome dot google.com you can, um And go to slash web store you can get to that quite easily. So this is the inbuilt little, um App store if you like for the chrome browser. So most of you will know it and love it and have been there plenty of times before. So, um, very simply we type, uh on the right keyboard So we want the chromebook recovery utility Which is there I will see if I can just stretch that out using Absolutely the correct mouse is I honestly, I wish you could see this from this side. It's absolute chaos, right? If any of you've used a chromebook before you'll, uh, you'll be very familiar with this This is their sort of standard tool But if you're new to this in trying to experiment, um, this is what you need to do So basically you just add this to the chrome browser Now I'll have a think about life now This is the bit at one of the bits that normally tricks people out chromebook utility added to chrome No problems at all there and you can see the little chromebook icon up there when you click that it disappears So you spend the next sort of 10 minutes trying to work out where it is And if you're not too experienced with chrome, um, this can be Really annoying. Uh, just click on the little jigsaw icon piece there And voila, there it is And then you can pin that to your taskbar and give it a click And here we go Everyone with me so far Cool, right, okay Sorry, did you say there was a question James? No, no questions. I think no questions that that that's that's good. Okay. Um, and again Anyone that's used to a bit of computers. This is going to be, um, uh, quite straightforward However, just a couple of things to watch out for trying to find this. Um, there's a few do's and don'ts So I'm just going to shove in a usb stick into my computer There we go, and I'm going to click the right mouse Is there a minimum spec for the chrome away? There is not so much a minimum spec Um That's a really good put my apologies. I'm not on the right screen. So I can't see who said that so But thank you very much for your question. It's Oh, the way google are sorry russian the the the way google are Pushing it in the moment is it's very much a development product and They are saying For example that they are listing compatible machines.  You sort of take your life in your hands and see what happens, but I have um one of the articles I wrote for pc pro About a oh About a year ago We had a 250 pound challenge where it was literally Chips from a reasonably price skip. It was how it was how it's based So I went out out the back here and found various bits of computers Have a retail value of about 250 quid and the idea was I had to build something that would outperform Um, it was things like the raspberry pi The slightly bigger one the keyboard that I've forgotten it's able to top head and a few of the things that the rest of the team had come up for 250 quid um And when I started with chroma s flex so just to go back side and that machine is built from it's so much mishmash junk You won't believe it. I We dare even put a name it um A chrome runs perfectly fine on that no problem at all And I've got a couple of bits and bulbs which I shall plug in later and show you it's though It's a dev product. It really is quite good. So yeah, don't worry so much about um What it is uh what it will run on because it's it's really quite uh really quite a versatile little thing now Uh Here we go. Let me grab a mouse and apologize for bonking the mic there. So, um, and this is where um You you may come across with a star with so it says Type in your name your chromebook and under normal Circumstances if you're trying to refresh your chromebook, you would type in your whatever you've got there What we need to do is go to select model from the list And as you can see when we click on this we have all sorts of manufacturers and very nicely hidden amongst it is chrome os flex And then you click that and you only have one option And it tells you quite Quite upfront that this is an unstable version. So, you know warning here be dragons and things like that And then you click continue and then you choose your usb drive again. This is all pretty uh pretty routine stuff then you click continue and then Off we go now. I'm not going to do this stage at this point Because this stage takes about 40 minutes. It's unbelievably long process It's far longer to do this bit than it is to actually install the software So i'm going to hold it here, but I guess you can guess what's about to happen. It will create the software. It will It'll put it on the usb stick just as it just say there in the in the bump It is going to wipe everything on that drive. So, please don't Uh use photos of precious An ssd drive with precious photos or anything like that um And off it goes. So that's the install process. Uh, sorry the creation process um I think the next thing we need to do is we need to try and install it. So, uh Again, I shall bear with me a second. I shall uh disappear over here and uh And I will shut all that down Did that all did that all make sense so far? Yep seems straightforward enough. It is. It's really straightforward.  Um apart from trying to find it where it is in that list There's nothing here that's going to fool you at all. So I think greg has a question Oh, is that right greg? Feel free to unmute yourself Do you have to sign up to a developer program? Before you can download it Originally at launch you did that's gone now. They don't care Which is good so anyone can do it. So I I've done all that tonight but not signing into anything So I I mentioned os flex in this month's uh pc pro And um, I mentioned about having a google business account and that was how I got access to it So wait when it first launched. Yes, it was behind That restriction at the moment. It's really not so anyone can go in Sorry, I should have explained that. Yeah, there was no signing process there that this install of windows 10 is a Fresh vanilla install with a local account Um, and nothing exciting going on. So no, you can do exactly what I've just done there Without having any of the the business accounts Greg if you were starting with the mic, what's your type your question? Sorry Sorry, we're seeing go ahead I was just going to say was the website called the big deck question. Okay Ah, yes. Yeah. Yeah big question. If you've got a totally off-brand computer Do you do you just select google chrome os flex as manufacturer? Yep, absolutely. That is the uh, yeah, it doesn't but at that point it doesn't care what you've got you um Yeah, it's one build fits all and The compatibility of what you've got in your hardware it will work out when it starts the install So there's no granulation at this point. It is that that's what you get interestingly Just to go back to wasm. Yes, it's big tech question.com and to do the two stories on here that I did the one did the The crow one and did the sorry did the mac one and did the pc one I actually interchange the installers just just for my own curiosity just on the on the on the point It mentioned so yes I built the installer on the mac and then installed it on the pc and it doesn't care It's it's the same thing. It builds the same usb drive Is and does that answer your question wasm? It's big tech big tech question.com Cool good stuff, right Drum roll here we go So what I'm going to do now is uh restart the system and then it's going to boot beautifully into the bioscreen where I I will start the procedure If any of you have a religious persuasion, please Please help me out at this point Dundududu It's all very tense Hey Lee, can this only install from usb or can it can install from network pxc at the moment? It is usb only Um, I've no doubt they will change something later down the line, but at the moment? No Okay, and as you can see this works brilliantly well Is this what they meant by i'm stable this yeah, this is the I thought, when I did the demo with you a couple of weeks ago, I thought, oh, this is brilliant. I can show you the boot screen. I can do the whole thing. And of course, for these two articles I've written, I've done all the screen captures with that and it worked beautifully last night. And today it's just behaving like a pig. So you'll have to bear with me a second while I when I sort a couple of things out. But just talk amongst yourselves, if you will. I'll we have a question from Greg Lee. Greg, fire away. Greg asks, can can you put this image on a USB hard drive? I guess so, as long as it's you will lose everything that's on it. It is a. It does wipe anything. I haven't tried it on a. Sorry, I just realised my mic's over here. I haven't tried it on a USB hard drive. But I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. It will it will repartition, reformat and give it a boot sector. So, yeah, theoretically, it shouldn't it shouldn't be a problem. But say, we'll nuke everything, a USB is probably an easier thing. You say that's never a good sound. I'm curious, has anyone in the room had much experience with Chromebooks in general or Chrome OS in general? Not talking about flex, but just kind of vanilla Chromebook. No, fair enough. Nobody there should be interesting for all of us then. And I think this is one of the great things about about flex. Particularly when I when I see Chromebooks in my shop. They're normally the really sort of low powered. You know, sort of net book sort of sort of substitutes. And it's with with this, of course, you've got a real opportunity to sort of put it on something that's sort of half decent, which is which is a nice, a nice thing. Right, OK, bear with me. And it really does fly as I'm hoping I'll be able to show you at some point. Hey, good grief. It's like pulling teeth. Right, OK, sorry about that, folks. We might have to do that again, but we are we are on. So this is the initial launch for Chrome OS flex. I'm afraid I've had to miss out the pressing F9 to boot. But I guess with the audience we've got tonight, that's not too much of an issue. So this is the Chrome screen. Let me see if I can let me just see if I can zoom in a little bit on this for you and just just give you a slightly better picture of what's going on. There we go. So it's a really nice process, actually. It also does first thing it does out the box. So I've not done anything at this point. I've just launched it. It wants to use Chrome box, which is the built-in screen reader, which I won't do because I can't pipe the audio into where we are at the moment without probably all my hair falling out, I would have said after today. But, you know, it's it's nice to see what I get is it's really not a cut down sort of thing with one exception, which we'll get to in a minute. So welcome to Chrome OS Flex, nice animation. At this point, ignore language, ignore ignore the other options. You have got accessibility options here as well. You know, you can change certain aspects. And we'll click get started. So a couple of options here and one, if you're if you're not willing to sacrifice a bit of hardware, you can actually install it on a basically run it off the USB. There is questions about compatibility of that, and it doesn't detect hardware as well. So by all means, give it a will. But it is slightly better on a bit of old hardware. And by the sounds of it, most of you have something something aged kicking about that that should do the job. I will click on that one. And there's a few warnings and and the usual stuff. Nothing exciting at this point. What they do point out about we use the wrong mouse again at g.co dash dash dash install guide dash slash there is a step by step guide of how to install. Frankly, it's nowhere near as good as the one I wrote, but, you know, that, you know, what can what can you do? So Chrome is going to erase the hard drive, which is obviously I I suspect possibly at some point that there will be a way to very nicely dual boot this, perhaps if you wanted to with another system at the moment. I certainly haven't worked that out, but because it's not a fully finished product yet, this thing updates quite rapidly, which is interesting. So probably best to leave it as a as a single operating system on a single machine. So we can just chew the fat for for a few moments. Now, it says it will take 20 minutes, but there's an SSD in this machine. I've tried to speed up the process as best as I can. But it really is it really is quite perky for the installation. At the moment, I'm only connected in via an ethernet cable. I will cover connectivity in a second. What it's doing during this stage, it's basically dumping the contents of the USB onto the hard drive.  And this is the bit that or one of the things that catches you out because when Windows restarts during installation process, it restarts. Chrome doesn't. It turns off. So you can be sat there for some considerable time waiting for something to happen and nothing's going to happen. But you can also at that point pull the USB stick and and and just let it to get on with life. So we'll just have a few moments reflection as we watch this hypnotic sign go round for for a little while. Has anyone got any questions at this point? Oh, tough. You missed your chance. That's it. Got to be quick round here. OK, here we go. So it will shut down in forty nine seconds. There's not a handy little shut down now button. So I presume it might be doing something in the background here. But we'll just have to have to play it by ear. There we go. Oh, good. I can see you all again now there. I've moved my I've moved my screen. If at all to wonder, I'm wrestling with OBS tonight, as I said to James a few weeks ago, I've done three YouTube tutorials. So I am now classified as an expert. So doing all this live and with all this is a bit, as you can tell, a little rough, but hopefully it will give you an idea about what this thing can do in real time. Here we go. So. And. So the machine has gone and the light has gone off. Back to no signal. So I have pulled the USB. So nothing up the sleeve, one USB stick, dutch that and we will turn the machine on and pray to the Algato gods that it will pick up the signal and give me a picture back. I have to say the Algato captured hardware is actually really quite good. No, now my camera is gone as well. Oh, it's all gone wrong. Can anyone still hear me? Oh, there we go. We're back. The audio is fine. The audio is fine. At least at least something is really I can resort to semaphore. I can describe the rest of the process to you. Yeah, there with me a second. The Algato app has crashed again. And it is, you know, many of you probably work with Algato stuff. You know, it's it's it's it's good stuff. But the the software is absolute trash. And they're not paying me to say that. Right. OK, I have it back. I just have to now choose 38 different capture devices and voila. Right. OK. I will zoom in a little now. Can everyone see that? OK. Yeah, that looks great. Perfect. Now, it may look a little familiar. Basically, because we've put the software from the USB onto the drive, we're now repeating essentially the steps we've just done. So yeah, there is a bit of deja vu here. So I'm going to the reasons that I mentioned. And now, at this point, you do want to choose your keyboard and language.  I do like the option for Oxford English Dictionary version, which I've I've no idea what the difference between those is. But I'm just going to choose. Oh, so again, pretty standard for that, as you can see, there's you know, there's a fair wave of of keyboard versions in there. You know, it's not a you know, it's not a restricted sort of product. I'm sure there's not everything in there, but I'm sure there's something for most people to get to get them going at the beginning. So off we go. Get started. Now connect to a network. Let me let me just bring up a. I did to do to do to do to do. There we go. Right. So, as I said, we're connected by Ethernet. What I have here, my sticky little mitts is a USB wireless adapter. There you go. This is what I quite like about Chrome, is it's it's really quite good at picking up hardware. So if I shove that in there like that, you'll see above the top of the screen, little line turns up. And there we go, we have wirelessness. And it really is quite straightforward. Now, it is a little picky about what it likes and what it doesn't like in wirelessness. That's a TP link. T2 UH, everyone's favourite wireless adapter, obviously. So a pretty common piece of kit, not particularly new. So the sort of thing that you would probably find hanging out the back of a restart as a computer or someone that's come into a cafe. This is a you can't see that because of terrible focus. That's a TP link something from a similar range. Interestingly, Chrome doesn't like that at all. So it's not universal on hardware, but it is pretty it is pretty damn fine. For just for the sake of it, I am going to pull that out and we'll just carry on this experiment on on Ethernet. So if you've got if you've got devices in your in your system, there's a good chance that that Chrome will be able to sort it out. Right. So this is the Google terms of service. Does anyone want to read this out for us? There's about 60 pages and no, OK. So Chrome account set up for ourselves or children. One thing that I love about Chromium, if you want to call it that, my I've got two kids who are seven and nine. And at the start of lockdown, we got them a couple of Chromebooks for homeschooling and stuff like that. Just two little Zeus things, nothing exciting, nothing powerful. And being able to set them up under child profiles is a really nice thing to do. And this is a good use for Chrome Flex. If you have got a young one or children or grandchildren or people like that, it's a nice little way of giving them a cheap usable machine. That you can put certain parental restrictions on, which is built into the operating system. So again, just another use for this software. So I'm going to set this up for me because obviously that's who I am. And I'm just going to there we go. This is my wondrous test account for the googly things. Right. Talk about yourself. This might take a while. Interesting point from Neil in the chat. I'm not sure whether there's a Linux equivalent child friendly distro. That's a interesting point. My knowledge of Linux isn't broad enough to know. But yeah, anyone knows one. Yeah, I think that I wasn't aware of that installation option with Chrome Flex. But I think that's a really good selling point of it. So that just, you know, just a check box almost at the beginning is this as a child going to be using this and then it's got appropriate restrictions on there. Absolutely. I've not delved into it too much for what I've done. But this is my mobile phone. And like many of us that might have the Google family link. So my daughter's devices appear in here. And this I would imagine would be the same. It will appear in this list. I can associate it with my family group and I can do certain things. And it's again, it's a nice little thing. Right, I need to generate a 2FA code.  I mean, you could be watching Taskmaster or something like that instead of watching me do 2FA. I'm using Orphe if there's anything there. There's the code. Right, and we're away. Again, you've got all your sync items as you would accept, expect. And you can choose what you want to do and how you want to do that. Have I lost my mouse? Again, you're having a giraffe. No, we're on, we're on. So yeah, you can choose what you want to sync. So we're talking bookmarks, wallpapers, history, apps, all the usual stuff to do with Google Chrome or you can choose to sync them afterwards. Again, there's nothing exciting going on here. Now, this is a key one. Chrome is obviously harvesting information. No surprise, it's Google. But they are particularly wanting, because of the nature of this product, they're wanting to know what it's running on. So personally, I don't have a problem with ticking the box in. Yes, you can have my hardware information because frankly, you're having everything else. You might as well complete the picture. And there is information on their website about exactly what they're collecting and what they're doing with it. But I see this as a, you're giving me something for free. I know I'm probably a product in this somewhere, but there we go. Right, Google Assistant, you can do, I would demo this for you. I've just realized there's not a microphone on this machine, but you can do the hey Google stuff. And that all works very nicely on the browser. You can train this at this point, but you can set this up later down the line. I will click that. And again, that's all the hey Google, which annoys you. And you know what? That's it. We're done. It's that quick. Look, it even did the wallpaper. Look at that branding. Bear with me a second. I'm on the wrong mouse again. There you go. And there it is. It is the full, the full WAC Chrome operating system with, you know, all your toolbars. Let me take my ugly mug out of the way. That'll help. There we go. And you've got access to two various things. Now I installed something on here earlier called COG, which is a little utility for showing system specifications. So you can see what sort of machine this is. It's Intel i7.  You know, it's a fact that, you know, in no way, shape or form is this machine ready for the bin. Now, obviously Microsoft's not quite saying that at this time, but you know, it'll be a few years down the line when Windows 10 is doff. This machine will be good for something, providing something inside. It doesn't go bang, but now I keep, I did mention a couple of times there was a bit of a gotcha. Let me just bring that down and I will try and I will try to show you what that gotcha is. Bear with me. Hold on. So this is the, this is the start menu for Chrome, which if any of you use Chromebooks, hey, oh, that worked really well. So you can see all your apps and utilities. So you've got straight access straight into the Google infrastructure. So if we open something like Google Docs, there we go, I will just click on there, get rid of that. This is all the stuff which is in everyday Google, Google Docs on a full, what you call a full-pack Chromebook that you buy from a shop. It tags into the Google Drive. That's how the restart wallpaper appears, because I've got it logged into the Google Drive. So from this aspect, you've got everything that you would have in a commercial Chromebook. The bit that's missing at the moment, I will, is the Google Play Store, which is basically what gives Google its apps.  You've got things like the Play Store for books and videos and stuff like that, but apps are not here. Now, I'm led to believe it's all coming. Sorry, I'm showing you completely the wrong thing. There we go. There we go. So you've got a Google Play Store for that. What else have we got as the Play Book Store? No books in my library. Yeah, no too much about me already. And again, this will tag into whatever you've got in your Google Library and you can watch your media, which again, is great for kids and things like that. The downside with the Google Play Store being missing is the millions and millions of apps which are available for Flex are just not there yet. So if you want to play Among Us, or you want to download extra software, that ability is not there. For the digging I've done, because this is a developmental product, Microsoft, Microsoft listened to me, Google are being really just cautious about hardware because running their own software on a piece of kit is okay. When you start bringing apps in, that stresses the hardware in different ways. So I presume that once they're cool with this, they bring that on board. And the moment they bring that on board, we've got a genuine proposition here as an alternative operating system in a way that I've never seen in 18 years. We were talking about the child friendliness of Linux. I love Linux. I've run Linux plenty of times, but it's always ended up coming off my system. Because I always describe it a bit like a classic car. You've got to spend a lot of time with the bonnet up. And this is a slightly different thing for people that just want a machine that works, and particularly something on low-powered hardware. I think there's a lot of good stuff here. There's not too much more to show you. I've got a couple of things. I'm just going to squiggle my what's it over here. In the meantime, we have a question from Chris. Oh, Chris, far away. Do we know when it's likely to be out of development and in production and also how upgrades handle? Upgrades happen on the fly. So when it boots up every so often, you'll get the message in the same way that you get it on Chromebooks at the moment, which is basically you get a, there's a little pop-up option sort of at the top here, like a little toaster saying, hey, does it upgrade? And it just does it and then restarts. I guess if you go digging on the Chrome website, you can find out what that upgrade is. But they are actively doing it. I've noticed since I've been playing with this, I got involved with the restart forum post quite early on and it's changed a lot since then. So yeah, just keep an eye on it. When it will come out of development, I don't know if it ever will. Google are notorious for keeping things in development forever. So I think it will be one of those beta products which just carries on. Just whilst I'll just flip back. I did the little switcheroo with the wireless dongle as well. The other thing that you can do to it, of course, is Bluetooth, which people say, why are you using Bluetooth these days? So if I plug that in like that, it will have a think about life.  And that's just a standard five pound. Sorry about that. That's my Amazon echo kicking in. That's just a standard five pound Bluetooth adapter, which now enables me to connect my mobile phone. So I can, if I'm signing in to flex on the same account as my mobile phones in, I can do passwordless sign-ins. It will detect the proximity of my phone. So all that is live and active as well. I can't demonstrate that because my phone's not on that account. But I advise you to give that a whirl. If you've got a Google phone, an Android phone, do your flex install on the same account. And that's a really nice little feature, the fact that you can start to talk to it via a mobile. Is there anything else you want to see? I don't think, like I say, because it's a bog basic sort of installation, you know, you've got access to obviously YouTube and Chrome and all the, say, tons of Google. You've got access to, we mentioned earlier, the Chrome Store. So you can get access for, oops, bear with me. I think that's an old bookmark. So you can get access to the Chrome apps that we mentioned. I'm going to type this on the correct keyboard. That will really help. While you're doing that as well, we've got a couple of questions from Waseem who asks, is there a cheap 64-bit hardware to test this product? And does Chrome remote desktop work? Chrome remote does work, which is really nice. It doesn't, oh, now you're asking me, cheap 64-bit. Yeah, I was going to try it on a Pi. I know Pi is not technically what you're talking, possibly not what you're talking about. But I've yet to find anything that this thing won't run on. There are obviously things that it won't. But yeah, basically, I've put it on some low-end stuff as well. I know I've surrounded here by Max and i5s and i3s, but I've done some Celerons and some Pentium Goals. And as I said, that 250-pound machine I did for PC Pro is an absolute crate, death trap probably. And it worked fine on that. So don't be scared of trying it on something, because chances are it'll work in some form. And if you look on the Google website for Flex, and they list sort of what machines are compatible, it's not a yes-no, it's a not-yet. So I've got confidence that this is something for us to keep an eye on, particularly in light of Windows 365, which is Microsoft's cloud computing, which is now available for enterprise, but isn't available for consumers. So we're at an interesting point with where all your home users are on Windows 10 and Windows 11, but Microsoft have launched this cloud version of Windows. So essentially, you open a browser and there's your Windows desktop, which you can see is the natural end of where home desktops are going. So I'm going to look at the camera instead of the screen. And I think this is, Chrome Flex plays a part in this, of trying to shift people away, perhaps from that Microsoft mindset that someone mentioned earlier. And it's nice to see what I think potentially could be a really valid alternative. Thanks, Lee. Just one quick point from Philip, who I believe is sharing his screen as well at the moment. What was it? Let me flick back. He says he's installed it under VMware, and it's not running particularly well, and he doesn't have any apps running along the bottom except a Google icon. So I'm not sure if you can recognize what's going on here. Yeah, that's cloud ready. That's not Flex. Oh, okay. That's a different product. Just to mention that, because he said cloud ready was a nice little system. And then, I think Google bought them, and then I think quickly sold it or squealed it away, and or have improved it, developed it, and this has come out. So yeah, this, I've used cloud ready when I've had to do remote support with people on Chromebooks and things like that, because it was a nice way of doing the remote control. It just worked very nicely. But Flex is a lot nippier, a lot more responsive. It just feels like it's not a bodge. That's an awful thing to say about cloud ready. Cloud ready always seemed like a compromise, which it was a compromise. Chrome Flex doesn't. It feels like this is the real deal. And let's say once they can get this play store sorted out, then we're stuck in diesel. We're on. Okay. I think I simply installed under VMware some binary I downloaded some months before. So that's how the mistake occurred. Absolutely. I have tried in vain to get Flex onto a VM and have failed miserably at every point, but that might be down to my VM software. It certainly doesn't work on VirtualBox. I spent a long time trying to get it to work on VirtualBox, but it works on VMware. Yes. Sorry. I mean, Flex, I can't get it to work on VMs, but at a lot of Googling shows, I'm not the only one that can't do it. But I wanted to see it on bare bones hardware because I feel as we go forward and people are wondering what to do with their Windows 10 machines come into play. Or even if you roll forward only as far as January, Windows 8 has got its neck on the block in January. So there's still a lot of Windows 8 machines out there and 8.1 and there's people going to be wondering what to do at that point. And I don't know how many of you have used Windows 11 at the moment, but again, if we say that Chrome Flex is in development, you could levy the same argument at Windows 11 at the moment, which seems to change every time you turn the damn thing on. So using the public who's guinea pigs does seem to be the du regur in the tech community at the moment. Wonderful. Cool. So it looks like we're at the end of the evening. So thanks so much, Lee. Everyone here, you survived and you did it and you got us through and it was really interesting and really useful. So thank you very much for all your work. I think Hugo wanted to say a quick word. Well, I just had a question that maybe you didn't see, James, that was, I don't know if you can install things that are more like Linux apps on it. Not at the moment, not until they get the Play Store sorted. And that's where your third party app, so your non-Google stuff comes in.  But there may be a way to side load stuff eventually. So if there is something that doesn't appear in the Play Store that you might be able to sort of get it to run through non-authorized means, I'm sure that will become available at some point and someone will work that out. Unfortunately, that is slightly beyond my knowledge at this point. But if it's possible, someone will work it out. But with it being a dev product, there's just, I think there's a wait-and-see element as to actually what it's going to go. But you can get access to sort of the terminal on the back end and have a look at things. But... And can you install the Linux subsystem like you can under proper Chromebooks? Not as far as I'm aware of, not at the moment. However, that was the last time I had a look at that was about three months ago. No, that's absolutely right. About two and a bit months ago, I think. So by all means, give it a try. It may be the answers, yes, yet. Google are never brilliant at sometimes saying what they've done and what they haven't done. I think possibly from fear that too many people will try something and it will fall over. So it may very well be possible. And I guess that's sort of the hope that, you know, we're talking about extending the life of old machines and keeping things going and giving people a decent alternative to Microsoft. But Chrome is also for the big boys.  So if you put this software onto a decent bit of hardware and then get it to run the subsystem like you want it to, you've got some power there. So, you know, fingers crossed. Brilliant. Okay. Yeah, are there any final questions before we kind of finish up for the evening? I thought you were just jumping the gun a little bit. No. I've got the million dollar question. Aha, shoot. We've refurbished a lot of computers to give to school kids and for the low-end ones, we've been putting Neverwhere on them. Would you suggest that we now switch to use the developmental Kromos flex instead? I mean, I would say at the moment, no. I would say, because if you want, for example, if your school wants to run a certain app that they get out the play store, they can't do it. So I think that hobbles.  I don't think you've got anything to lose. If you start to want to put a specific third-party app on, you've got a problem. But stuff on a browser, which I guess a lot of kids, a lot of schools now, it is all browser-based. I think the stuff that my kids do, it's mainly browser-based. I don't think you'll have too much of a problem. And I say it's quick and it's rapid. So, yeah, I'd say give it a whirl. I can't speak for the longevity of the product, you know, and we all know ourselves through various Google products that we've loved over the years that they have absolutely brought the hammer down on it at a second's notice. But I, you know, they're obviously throwing some resource behind this and I feel it's not going to disappear anytime soon, he said. Headlines on Next PC Pro flex dead. So, yeah, I'd give it a try. Let me know if you do, though, please. I'd love to know an experience of it in the real world. Thank you. Thank you so much, Lee and James. Unfortunately, I have to leave the meeting. It's all been very interesting. I'm looking forward to trying it out myself. Thank you so much. No problem, thank you. Great. Okay, and thank you everyone for coming along this evening. And again, a massive thanks to Lee for giving up your evening and many hours before the evening trying to get all your tech to work. Thank you for your patience, everyone. I'm so sorry that, you know, that actually went far better than I thought it was going to. I thought I was going to have to draw your pictures. But yeah, thank you for bearing with me. We'll cut that out in the edit. You'll never know it happened. That's great. I can test my video editing skills. In the meantime, if you do have any further questions for Lee or just want to continue the discussion, feel free to do so in the talk topic for this evening's chat, link in the chat. And we can get you to the conversation there if anything else comes up. Or if you give it a go yourself, feel free to report back and how it went. Be curious to hear how you get on. I should also mention that currently for restart, we're in the middle of... We're currently doing a fundraising campaign at the moment as part of the Big Give. So any donations made to us this week will be doubled by the Big Give, which is very generous of them. So we're trying to make the best of it. So if you feel so inclined, if you're able to feel free to have a look at our campaign page, again, link in the chat, no pressure. But thank you again, everyone, for coming and have a great rest of the evening. Or Greg, in your case, have a great day, I guess. Enjoy and see you all very soon. Thanks, guys. Thank you very much. Okay, thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks very much. All right, thanks.


1996 study by Matsuzawa et al. reported extremely long-lasting afterglow of senior al-204-EU-2 plus codeped with di-3 plus ions, which was more than 10 times brighter than ZNS-CU company. Since then, research for stable and efficient persistent phosphors has gained popularity but the number of such materials is still relatively low and the mechanism behind this phenomenon is unclear. This review presents an overview of important classes of known persistent luminescent materials based on EU-2 plus emission and their preparation, as well as models and mechanisms suggested to explain bright afterglow in various compounds. This article was authored by Kuhn van den Eekhout, Philippe F. Smet and Dirk Pellmann.