Y cannotledd wedi eich bod, wrth i fhyddo gwy cosa am yr unaws�� slut pan sydd wedi Darren ffrun hwn yn ddypiUnNGl. Tw quite leol. Dwi'n beth i gynodd yr eich bodiesh fel y cymri mewn ei raptus i dda waith i ff Sacred for. Des i fynd i ar-fyrddfawd y byddai mae'r lateralc yn bwysig iawn g宮. Onien, goan yn осi yn dif amplifier mor dweudgrun fwrdd agor possess All. Onien, hei, mae'r foil yn rhan i gafio'i siediliau ar hynny. Onien, hei, mae'r dweud gafio'i siediliau ar y verb. I'm honored to bring this debate to the chamber today to hopefully continue the good work of playwright Jack Dixon in highlighting the injustice of the cartridge that comes from I'm honoured to bring this debate to the chamber today to hopefully continue the good work of playwright Jack Dixon in highlighting the injustice of the cartridge girls of hut number seven. I thank colleagues from across the chamber who supported the motion, allowing us to take their story to the floor of the Scottish Parliament and members who are contributing today. It's a great pleasure to welcome Jack to the chamber along with Graham and Shersa Cobb, the great-grand-nephew and great-great-nice of Mary and Annie Brannan. Taking a walk around our dear peninsula today, you can find yourself surrounded by nature. The western fringe of the peninsula is dominated by three kilometres of crumbling seawall. The area is well vegetated, supporting all manner of plant species. It's peaceful. A place where people walk their dogs, take their children to explore and generally enjoy the outdoors. In 1884, among the sand dunes and natural beauty, was the largest explosive manufacturing plant in the world—Nobel's explosive company—built by the inventor of dynamite and laterally of the peace prize, Alfred Nobel. Where the story begins and ends, for four young girls who would be wrongly blamed for not only their own deaths, but that of six other colleagues—sisters Anne and Mary Brannan, Mary McAdam and Rachel Allison. Those four girls were part of the exclusively young female workers who manufactured the sticks of dynamite at the plant, ranging in age from 14 years old. After learning about the tragedy, Jack was inspired to create the play The Cartridge Girls of Hut No. 7, to write a wrong and get some justice for the girls. The storytelling, along with the dramatic displays by the cast, helped from the girls' descendants and local people, hard work from the crew, and funding from Playwright Studio Scotland and Creative Scotland gave voices to those four young girls. So what happened? The explosion, reported in the Ardrossan and Salkoats Herald on 9 May 1884, the day after the event, detailed the incident as follows. Yesterday morning, the works at Stevenson of the Nobel explosive company was a scene of a distressing and fatal occurrence. At about 20 minutes to 9 o'clock, No. 7 cartridge hut blew up. As many of our readers are aware, the huts in which the cartridges are made are scattered among the sandhills, a milder soul to the west of the town of Stevenson, and a short distance from the beach between Stevenson Burn and Irvine Harbour. There are usually four girls employed in each of these huts, and Mr McRoberts, the manager, states that yesterday morning, 15 girls in all were employed in them. In No. 7 hut, that in which the explosion occurred, the young women employed were Anne Brannan, Mary Brannan, Mary McAdam and Rachel Allison. The last name resided with her parents in co-winning, and the others were the residents of Stevenson. The force of the explosion was terrific, as well may be imagined, when it stated that the huts were supposed to contain two and a half kilowatts of dynamite each, as 127 kilograms. Not a vestige of hut 7 remains to indicate its former presence. Parts of the body of one of the girls was found over the boundary palisade towards the shore, and probably not less than 150 yards from the scene of the explosion. In hut No. 5, two girls lost their lives. Mary Ann Peters aged 19, Main Street Stevenson, and Martha McAllister of Ardears Square. In hut No. 6, the killed were Elizabeth Love and Martha Haggerty. In hut No. 8, two were also burned to death. Isabella Longridge of Stevenson and Isabella McAll of New Square. In each case, death was probably instantaneous, for the huts were not more than 15 feet square. The injured were Sarah Anne McAin, Jesse Craig, Mary Banks and Roseanne Murphy. The paper report went on. The cause of the explosion has not yet been ascertained. It's just possible that there may have been some lurking around amongst the girls, and it's probable that some irregularity or other amongst them was committed. This explosion was one of the worst industrial accidents to happen at Nobel Explosives Company, and the girls were getting blamed for it. The accident investigators report published several months later concluded that the explosion was actually caused by faulty equipment. The report, buried under other relevant news of the day details, a handle of one of the machines fell into a box of dynamite causing the accident. The incident affected not only the families and descendants of those involved, but the whole of Stevenson and the surrounding communities, who for generations had, until its closure in 1990, been tied to a single huge industrial plant. People still remember the extraordinary large chimneys in yellow smoke. Speak of family members and friends who tell stories of working in the plant. The memories live on, and so should the memory of our four cartridge girls—Anne Brannan, Mary Brannan, Mary McAdam and Rachel Allison—may they rest in power. We will now move to the open part of the debate, and I call Gillian Martin, to be followed by Jamie Greene, around four minutes please, Ms Martin. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I want to congratulate Ruth Maguire for bringing us our members' business debate today, and for drawing our attention to Jack Dixon's play, The Girls of Cartridge number seven. I didn't know anything about the cartridge girls, but this play has put a spotlight on them, and it's great that this spotlight has been amplified in the Scottish Parliament today. Young women who risk their lives every day, manufacturing dangerous deadly dynamite, telling the story of the explosion in 1884 that killed the ten women, and of the terrible injustice of four of those girls being blamed in death for the accident. The play and the film that went before it, which I found on YouTube, speaks to two issues that interests me greatly, and that's the lack of attention to women's voices and history. The importance of art in providing a platform for those voices and drawing attention to past injustices. Having now learned more about the cartridge girls, I thank Ruth Maguire for inviting Jamie Greene and Sasha to join us in the spirit of commemorating the two great aunties whose voices were lost, Mary and Annie. I'd also like to extend my thanks to Jack for writing a play that gives voice to them, and a real opportunity for the present community to understand their past. When we talk of dynamite, of course we know about Alfred Nobel, the inventor, the titan of industry, but how often have the people who worked with his dangerous invention ever really been mentioned? They've not been at the forefront of our memory, and history is told by the big figures striding on stilts over the many stories that can either disappear or be conveniently ignored to avoid the moral questions that they raise. It could be asked whether the stories of the ten women who died that day belonged to that latter category. As Ms Maguire mentioned, the Nobel explosive company had that hundred acre site for its factory in Ardea, and the only people who were producing the sticks of dynamite on those 30 huts were very young women, some as young as 14 children in effect. How the tragedy of the 10 decibels recorded in the newspaper of today, which Ms Maguire mentioned, heavily influenced by the trust of a factory manager's buck-passing finger-pointing for girls who just died and who couldn't tell their story? If we only had written history and no oral history, we'd only have that short, skewed account of the event and one that painted the hut number seven girls as villains effectively. What was the manager's suggestion of lurking around really if it wasn't deflection and buck-passing? It certainly has a great deal of moral dubiety around it. I thank the member for giving me a share of her commending of Jack Dicks and everyone involved in creating this fantastic play. I think that the point that the member is making is really important that class exploitation is something that's very much still alive in our present economy. The stories from our forefathers and foremothers, like they described in this play and articulated in this play, can tell us a valuable lesson about how we're aware of class exploitation in our current economy. Does the member agree with that? I thank Paul Sweeney for that, because I absolutely do agree with it. When I was looking at this, I was thinking about all the other industrial accidents that we've had even more recently, where people have tried to blame people. I put Alpha from my area as a classic example of that, where people were initially blamed until the truth really came out about what happened. I totally agree. The play is about an industry that affected thousands of working women and was such an integral part of the region's social fabric. As Paul Sweeney has alluded to, anyone can relate to, regardless of where they're from, stories of working women, working-class women, their lives, be it from the fish markets of Aberdeen, textile mills of Bute and Dundee, the munitions factory of Clydebank. They all need told, although I'm not from the area that Ruth Maguire mentioned, I'm not from out there, I'm not from near Irvine. I'm pleased to have joined you all today to have that opportunity to talk about the importance of working women's history and theatre as a way of shining light on it. Thank you very much for telling the story of the cartridge girls. Thank you, Ms Martin. I now call Jamie Greene to be followed by Katie Clark around four minutes, please, Mr Greene. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thank Ruth Maguire for bringing today's members' debate. It's a real privilege and a pleasure to do so with members of the community in the public gallery today, especially. Also for raising awareness of two things. One is the event itself, given the timeframe which has passed since the tragedy, but, more importantly, the telling of that story through the play The Girls of Carterchatt No. 7. It's described as a play with songs, rather than just a play or, indeed, the musical, which I found interesting. The play itself, whilst detailing a tragic event from 1884, the explosion Heather Too mentioned, which tragically killed 10 young women there, what it does do, I think, is a number of things and I'll develop that as I go through my comments. The thing that struck me the most was that, despite the cause of the explosion not being immediately clear at the time, it was quite clear that a narrative has been painted very quickly in the days after. The address in the saw quotes Herald, a newspaper which I'm glad still exists to this day, in which I have a collamen, I have to say, expressed the matter in concerning ways. The cause of the explosion, it says, has not yet been ascertained. It's just possible that there may have been some larking around amongst the girls, and it's probable that some irregularity, whatever that means, or other amongst them was committed. I mean, really pinning the blame on these pure young women, indeed children, as Gillian Martin has just put it. I'd like to think these the address in Herald would not report and jump to such inclusions in the way that it did at the time, but it is clear that the false accusations coming out of management at the factor at the time were in a complete effort to deflect blame, something that was completely put to bed by the accident investigation report later as it revealed. The real cause of the explosion was faulty equipment, and that can be put down to a number of factors. As is often the case, when something is said in public, it is believed and it's very hard to rewrite history. The voices of those young victims was never really cleared up until now, and it's for that reason, I believe, that Jack Dixon wanted to restore the reputation of these young women, give them a voice. They died tragically through no fault of their own, and they have now no voice to defend themselves. Well, that voice has been restored and it's been done so well, and I think we can commend him for that, but not just that. Putting on a play like this isn't easy at the best of times, but, like so many events in the theatre and the arts of the last few years, it had to be postponed because of the pandemic. It's not been easy to produce anything, but despite all those hurdles, we finally had a chance to put on his play at the Ardir Community Centre earlier this year. I think that the play had to have two components. The first is that the story of the victims was also told, with particular focus on their personalities as people and their lives before the accident, because people are often defined by the tragedies in which their names are associated with them. It's so easy to forget that they were individuals and had lives up until that point. However, the second point was really that this play was firmly rooted in the local community. The noble factory later, which became ICI, was a major part of local life. It employed 13,000 people at its peak, and it was really a fundamental part of the community's economic development and, pretty much, daily routine for generations. I think that the community still lives in the shadow of that business. By hosting the play in the Ardir Community Centre and performing it in local schools, I think that that brought a live and a reawakening of the ICI to a whole new generation of young people in Ayrshire. The reviews of the play have been really positive. The Irvine Herald reported that the production team put on a brilliant show with well-timed mood lighting and spine-tingling sound effects. The best review that I could find was from local resident Doris Robertson, who said that the show was very professional and totally absorbing storylines of these remarkable girls. I think that remarkable is a phrase that we should use. It's a ringing endorsement if ever there was one. I'm sorry that I didn't get to see the play, but I'm sure that, as a Parliament, we all agree that the hard work of the writer, Jack Dixon, director Mary McCluskey, composer Hilary Blukes, as well as the amazing and dedicated cast and team of volunteers who brought to life this important story, we congratulate them on their success, we thank them for it and I hope that these young girls have had their voice fully restored and exonerated and we now do so today in the Scottish Parliament. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Greene. I now call Katie Clark, who will be the last speaker before I ask the minister to respond around four minutes, please, Ms Clark. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and it's a pleasure to take this opportunity to congratulate Ruth Maguire on securing this debate, to thank and to congratulate Jack Dixon, who I understand is a good comrade, for the research that was involved in what is a chronicling of working-class history, of bringing this story to the chamber today, but also documenting the exploitative and grinding working conditions that existed in this plant, but unfortunately in many workplaces throughout Ayrshire and indeed throughout Scotland, where there were brutal grinding poverty. The health and safety concerns that clearly existed then are thankfully more serious than exist today, but, as has already been said, we still have a situation where health and safety remain a significant problem in many workplaces. As has been said by Jamie Greene, it was very much guilty until proved innocent and I think that the work that has been done here must be something that is welcomed by families and by local communities and I'm very pleased that some of the family are able to be here today. Because the tragic story of the deaths of these girls and women is something that it is important that we remember, but I think it's also important that we understand the important role that our dear had in the North Ayrshire community. As has been said, it was reputed to be the largest explosive factory in the world and at its height 13,000 people were employed there and many people in North Ayrshire are former employees or no former employees and it's very much something that's still spoken about. The impact on the community not just in the three towns but all over North Ayrshire with work buses travelling, bringing workers to the site. There are now only a few hundred workers at the site at Kimring which still produces amunitions, but there's no doubt that the loss of that workplace is still being felt in the three towns and beyond and indeed the closure of other large employers such as Glengarnyc, Steel Plant and the closure of the mines in the 1980s are still being felt throughout Ayrshire. So it's a mixed story that I think working class communities have to tell these massive employers that did bring so much wealth not necessarily to the individuals that worked there but to Scotland as a whole that have gone and the massive challenges that that has created but also the importance that we remember and understand the brutal conditions that people worked in because the conditions that are dear and in many places of employment in the 1980s were appalling and it's only through the struggle of working class communities and the creation of the trade union movement that that began to change but that story is a story of individuals and of individuals involved in struggle and having to face exploitation and this explosion which killed 10 women one of whom was only 14 is a story that would not have been heard if it wasn't for those that have done the research that have documented the evidence that have listened to the oral stories that still existed and have put together this piece of work that we are discussing today so I congratulate all involved in this production these stories need to be heard we need to learn the lessons of the past we need to recognise what we've been through and we need to understand also what that means for us today in terms of the values of our society what kind of society we want to live in and how we recognise the changes that have been made which mean that hopefully disasters of this skill will not happen again but that we recognise that the only way that we will ensure that happens is if we understand our history and fight to make sure that we listen to the lessons and make sure that we value the lives of all in society and for that reason I'm pleased to contribute and to congratulate all those that have brought this issue before us thank you miss Clark and I now call on minister neal gray to respond to the debate around seven minutes please minister thank you Presiding Officer I'm very grateful and congratulate my colleague Ruth Maguire for bringing forward this motion for securing the debate this afternoon and for setting out so vividly as she did the tragedy and injustice the play is based on but also for supporting her community in bringing this to life I would also like to thank the various speakers for their valuable and interesting contributions. Gillian Martin, Jamie Greene, we just heard Katie Clark and also Paul Sweeney via an intervention. Today we commemorate 150 years of Nobel explosives on the Ardir Peninsula at Stevenston in North Ayrshire. We also celebrate the power of the performing arts to bring to life important and largely forgotten historic events for modern audiences. Alfred Nobel established the British Dynamite Factory in 1871 at Ardir. It was the first factory of this type in the UK and became the largest explosive factory in the world. At its peak it was believed to have employed around 13,000 people from the local area making it the largest employer. Its success contributed to increased fortunes of Ayrshire towns of Stevenston, Irvine, Saltcoats, Ardrossan and Irvine. The factory developed a wide range of high explosives that revolutionised the mining and engineering industries. It provided essential minerals and raw materials and assisted in the development of harbours, canals, railways, roads and water and electricity supplies. By the 1990s, Ardir's fortunes had declined, accelerated by the demise of the British deep coal mining industry, and changing patterns in international trade and competition led to the closure of most of the factory. Today, little, if anything, remains of the original 1871 factory. This debate celebrates the play Girls of cartridge hut number seven by cartridge girls, which shines a light on an industrial accident at the Nobel's explosive factory in Ardir in 1884. This tragic event took the lives of 10 young women and girls, one as young as 14 years of age. They were involved in making dynamite cartridges for blasting purposes, and the play focuses on the four girls in cartridge hut number seven, who were killed. Today, we honour the ultimate sacrifices that sisters Mary and Annie Brannan, Mary McAdam and Rachel Allison made while working at Nobel's factory so many years ago, but also to the others mentioned by Ruth Maguire in her speech. Mary Brannan and Rachel Allison were 18, Annie Brannan and Mary McAdam were 20. This was the age at which many girls at that time were likely to marry and therefore be required to leave the factory. Young and married girls and women were employed in preference to men and boys, apparently, due to their speed in learning the job and for their manual dexterity in handling such volatile materials. It's on the record from that time that, again, apparently incredibly, they asked for lower wages than men and boys. They were paid by piecework and a good full-time female worker could earn 15 shillings a week in the 1880s. Such a devastating workplace accident of this type had never happened before in Scotland or the rest of the UK. Protecting the safety and well-being of staff at work and closing the gender pay gap clearly remains priorities for us and for employers today. The play draws on historical, of course. Thank you very much. I hope that I can beg the chamber's perseverance with me today. I was not a cartridge hut girl, but I did work in a dare. I was there for a year as part of my degree and worked on the Nobel's site. I remember it very well. I was just sitting here thinking about all the things that I could not walk into my workplace with, such as phones, class and jewellery. In going from the offices there, I would have to almost change my entire appearance before walking into the site and how strong the health and safety message was at that time. I have been absolutely enthralled by today. I thank Jack Dixon for his work in this area. I also remember that one of the last innovations that our dear was around safety detonators, which would make mining much safer, because it would have prevented some of the accidental detonations. However, what I was struck by at the time was that this product did not really take off because outside of the UK and in other areas of the world, the safety of the workers was not considered a priority in mining throughout the world. In that sense of solidarity internationally when we know that well things have improved here, we cannot not recognise that safety in other areas of the world is bad, as it was, if not worse than some of the conditions that we have here. Through works like Jack Dixon's play and the work that has been done in the community, we cannot ever take for granted, and we just heard about the Piper Alpha disaster as well this afternoon. We cannot ever take for granted the strives that have been made to make workplaces safer, and as the convener of the Cross-Pattery Group on Action Prevention and Safety Awareness, she would not want me to say anything other than how important it is that we value the workers' safety and that we always strive to make workplaces more safe going forward. Minister. I think it's entirely appropriate that that intervention was given the applause that it was, because thanks to your indulgence, Presiding Officer, it allowed for a fantastic insight into working at the factory, but also comparing and contrasting the working environment that sadly these girls were forced to endure, and more modern day practices, and Claire Adamson quite rightly and concomender for her work on health and safety, quite rightly says that it's nothing, it's these practices that we should not take for granted and will continue to work to endeavour to ensure that we do everything we can to make employment as safe as possible going forward. The play draws on historical sources from the time, as well as consultation with the community more recently. The report of Her Majesty's Inspector of Explosives from that time states that the work by the girls and women in the cartridge huts was much sought after in the neighbourhood and that the occupation is healthy and clean. Like other first-hand testimonies I and colleagues have quoted today, they at least raise an eyebrow in a more modern view of workers' rights and gender equality. The inspector went on to say that nitroglycerin is poisonous, and a person handling it for the first time is liable to a severe headache with violent sickness. But after the system has been saturated with the poison it may be handled without any apparent ill effects. Indeed, the girls employed in the factory have better complexions and are more healthy generally than those in the district who are not so employed. In his report on the accident he also said that as a matter of fact the girls employed in the huts were in the habit of sky larking when the foreman's back was turned and that it was found very difficult to prevent this practice. The report recommended improved supervision of the girls and absolved the employers of any culpability for the explosion. Compounding the injustice and tragedy is the scapegoating of the girls. Indeed, the report went on to say that whether the fall of a machine or the factor and fall of a lever handle or, as I consider improbable, some other cause, such as a temporary defect in the working of a machine, be the real explanation of this disaster. It does not appear that any blame can be attached to Nobel's explosive company, etc. How far one of the girls was to blame for that present accident from the rougher and proper use of her machine is a matter for conjecture only. As in all the huts were killed, it is unnecessary for me to pursue further that part of the question. During the development of the play, women who worked at the factory long after the tragedy of 1884 reported on the youthful exuberance and camaraderie of the girls and women at the factory. They reveled in singing along to the radio at high volume while working on night shifts, while also handling high-risk materials. It is therefore fitting that the play uses theatre and music to bring to life in technicolor and song the realities of these people's hazardous working lives. That oral testimony of our economic, industrial and social history is invaluable. It brings stories to new generations and audiences which need to be told. Written by Jack Dixon and directed by Mary McCluskey with Musical Direction and Arrangement by Hilary Brooks, the play features a cast of professional and amateur actors. I pay tribute to the strong community involvement at the heart of this production. I am pleased that Creative Scotland provided support for the development of the production and consultation with, for and in the community. The play was performed in May this year in the RDR community centre to enthusiastic audiences and excellent reviews. Audience members have commented on the professionalism of the cast and crew and how moving and well-researched the play is. Approximately 2,000 people attended the 10 performances that took place over five days. More recently, Jack Dixon took part in an event at North Ayrshire's annual book festival Tide Lines in Irvine. At this event last week, he spoke about what inspired him to write the play and why local stories of this kind matter to him and why capturing these stories is so critical. While researching the play, Jack Dixon realised that there was a large interest amongst the local communities and people from further afield who had a connection to the area. He also produced a popular video called Shifting Sands, which examined the past, present and future of the RDR peninsula. That has been viewed over 10,000 times. Such was the reach of the play that family members of the young girls at the centre of the play contacted Jack to share what they knew of their ancestors. They agreed to having their stories recorded, and those are now deposited within North Ayrshire Council's heritage archive where they will be preserved for future generations. I very much welcome the living descendants of the girls here today, Graham and Sersha, as well as Jack and others from the community. I wish to extend my warmest congratulations to everyone involved in the production for creating and staging this pivotal story, and I wish to thank everyone who has taken part in today's debate. I am very pleased to see our guests in the gallery, and I do have to say, as a matter of form, that you are not allowed to clap, but the deed has been done. I am sure that we are all very pleased to see you. That concludes the debate, and I suspend this meeting until 2.30pm.


We'll give it a couple of minutes to see if anyone else joins, and if we have some topics. Hi, Victor. Good morning. Morning, Taylor. Today is special day. We got low attendance today. Something going on. Daylight savings starts on the 13th. So that wouldn't be it. And good morning. I'll be with you in a moment. I'm just going to get my coffee poured. The meeting will be better for it. Sounds good. Right. Okay. Let me get the meeting minutes up and we will begin. Hi, Frederick. I posted the meeting notes. And if folks can add their names and. Any agenda topics not handed over to you and if you're now back and ready. Yeah, I'm here. Good morning, everybody. I just need to write so. Good morning. Welcome to the CNF working group for those of you who've come. It seems like six of us. So not a huge meeting and probably not a very long one this morning. Right. The upcoming events, the reason the daylight saving is in there is our meeting is tied to UTC. So it moves when daylight savings strikes. So come March the 13th, the meeting will shift, I believe, to nine AM Pacific, as opposed to eight. You know, that is how it works when UTC is what we're tied to. And similarly, it will shift the same way when Europe moves on the 27th, we've got that funny two week period when we don't. Everything doesn't work together. So set of upcoming events the usual rules apply. CFP is if you want to put a paper in then there are a few there the open source summit and well both of the open source summit have CFP is open so if you've got anything which you would like to file about CNF about NFV in general. So if you have time to get a paper in if you think you would like some help with that then obviously we always they're ready to help. If you need some need someone to bounce ideas off of or you want your right up to be approved but we're quite happy to help you along with that. We'll do the poll requests in a moment but I just wanted to mention because we haven't got there yet and it's been on my mind for a few weeks. The chairs are me Taylor and Jeff who unfortunately hasn't been able to make it for a few weeks because he's got a conflict for the three different domains me from the CNF creators developers. Taylor for the community and Jeff for the CNF users. The time is coming to an end in about, I think it's four or five weeks at this point. So we should probably send an announcement out and make it clear to everybody that if you would like to stand for the one of the co chair seats for next year, your moment is here now is your chance. We will get the details of that sorted I don't think we've actually planned it out just yet but we will get the process in place. Our mailing list isn't used terribly much but last time we did this then we asked everybody to post on the mailing list and I think it would be a good idea. If that went out to the, to the main list that everybody gets a chance to check up. Right. Pull request. I don't know what pull request we have so here comes a surprise. We have three. Count four. Okay, that's an auto generated one I see we do have a couple of failure failures going on so that will need checking before we merge it but I don't imagine anybody's got too much of an objection to that it's just a bot coming in and telling us we've got a CI to sort out because it's out of date. So, I guess Taylor and I will go and double check that and see what we have to do. Configuration best practices communities components you can guess how much homework I've been doing this week I haven't read this. As anyone looked at this so far I've got any thoughts on the subject. I haven't taken a look yet. I don't see anything too. I don't, I wouldn't call this comprehensive. But I don't think there's any particularly objectionable elements in here. I don't see much in the way of sources in the sense of this is why we should be doing it. This one created in a difficult questions why about seven days ago all right. Yeah, exactly seven days. And I added these he talked a little bit last week, and I went through the best practice, I guess, spec or template or whatever that we have, and talked with them a little bit about references and everything. And if you notice this is also under the user stories. Yeah. I think we all need to move over. I think it's a good start for the conversation around this particular best practice. Yeah, I mean I'm not sure this needs a user story I think we all accept that there are certain things that are considered to be good that you should do with Kubernetes. And I wouldn't worry terribly much about justification but if we did have some degree of sourcing to say this is why we think these are the best practices we have and why we haven't bothered put others in, then that would certainly help. But I would rather we committed it before much longer than made it completely comprehensive because something is better than nothing. Again, I don't see anything terribly objectionable here so. That's a good point. So I would say it should be moved over. It's one of the things which I already told them. And then the related thing is we should probably review and update what's required in the proposals best practice proposals area, because we do have some things that are required that we may not care about at this point. That's the first command at least. Yes, absolutely. I know we've got a document in a format that we should be using. I don't think that changes very much of what he's written I think it just means we cut and paste over to the format we'd like but yeah, particularly hard job. But yeah, I mean in general, what is that object to this all looks like fairly sensible stuff. Okay, so that's job one is a formatting problem, and then references if we can find them. I think that for him the pain references before we go through approving it. I think actually I'm not so bothered about that too but if we, if there are any obvious ones we can at least ask him. Maybe a resubmission with over to the correct area. I guess you know one thing that we've said but I don't think it may not be documented as we, we would eventually have the approved list of best practices. So it's almost like we need to have a section where they can be come in and be iterated on. And then hopefully they could be listed, or even moved into something. Well, yeah, I mean iteration is effectively a pull request on the existing best practice so that should be having a best practice to iterate on having this committed would would solve a bunch of problems for that. Okay, I think one thing that maybe this one needs is to be a more explicit name, because it's, can you go back into the file changes. So I think it just says configuration configuration best practices of Kubernetes system components yeah. So I guess your APS or security best practices. Is it one enabling disabling it actually is multiple. So this is multiple. This is almost like a synopsis of a set of best practices now that I'm looking at it. It's a whole bunch of best practices and we probably need each of those to be submitted as their own. I don't think it's necessarily a problem that a best practice has checklist items, you know more than one checklist item I unless there's a reason to separate them out into multiple I wouldn't but I mean the synopsis needs to be a little more mandatory, shall we say, nearly all of this is best practices for the purposes of security from what I can read here which makes which he's managed to put in there but he's put in there as a subtitle as opposed to the actual title. So if we, I imagine that's because he was thinking this would want to be broadened out. But if we actually get ahead of that and just say no let this will be the security best practice part and if there's more than, you know for efficiency for reliability then we keep those independent. Then we would basically be good that's how I would do it. Let's go to the very top one as example disabling anonymous request. Someone may agree to that, but they are they don't agree to that one but they agree to everything else so they don't turn that on. And then what do we say that they're not following which I'm getting to the point where if a service providers looking and saying which best practices are you following and they'd say oh we follow the configuration best practices. Except they didn't follow one of them. Disabling anonymous request or API authorization configuration. Yeah, the compliance document would say not only that they aren't following it but specifically how they're not following it so again, we would be covered in that circumstance it would be written down as to what they were doing it wouldn't be a I haven't checked this box it's I haven't checked this box because so I think I see where you're going. It would be nice if this were a checkbox and it was a simple yes or no but I think you're going to see this with any best practice that you know there are ways in which you can manage to not follow an aspect of what is advised as opposed to simply ignoring it. I think this seems like a list of best practices that someone could implement each piece independently and then within each of those like enable audit logging. There's actually a lot of different aspects that you could change on that and people may have different preferences that are like where are you going to put your audit policy file. So make sure that it doesn't stay on the house because then it can be accessed if someone gains or it or it can disappear, you know, there's a bunch of different things like that that I start thinking. But those are then implementation issues versus you better have audit logging enabled or something. If someone's going to claim that. What are you doing there are you saying that it's not detailed enough for you. I'm saying that each of these potentially should be their own document versus having them all listed. When you go and look at the user story section, like the supply chain attack. It seems fine to have them all split out until someone goes Oh this one's really important let me do a bigger right it. But this one seems like they're. They are being stated as here's a lot of different user stories. I'm sorry a lot of different best practices and each of these could be their own right up with their own references of why it's good. Yes, they could. Absolutely, but my question with that is, is the effort of breaking it down and the spreading of the information into multiple files actually making this more useful to us or is it just basically. Burying the information making it a little more complicated to use, because I think the result works out the same you would have to comply with all of these, or you would have to detail why you weren't complying with some of them. You wouldn't simply say I am not complying with security best practices and I'm not giving you any detail as to why, because we asked for that in terms of how compliance is written up. One thing would help with the. If we're going to say that people should do references which I think references should be a part of any of the best practices that forward, then it would be good if, if they're, if you're going to have multiple practices included in one document to make sure that you are a reference for each of them, ideally. Oh yes, absolutely. I'm still good, even though I kind of lean towards splitting it up. I'm good with having, if that happens, it could happen after the first iteration where we get this in with references in the correct area and not under user stories. Yeah, and then it can be decided to be split up or added to. Does anyone else have thoughts is a lot for me and then I hike you sure welcome. All right. Everyone can look at this one add comments. I'll remind Ben that we want to move it over. Although, I guess that could happen after the fact. We do what references I think. Yeah, I mean what actually if it comes down to I would want it to be moved as a first step. The references I would take as a wish list item that we can't have straight away. I can't see, I think one or two of these things could do the more detail like the credential type and detail, because this one seems to be asking for, you know, that that seems to go through things without actually saying you must do exit simply saying here are some notes that you might want to give consideration to so we can actually set it if we can set a threshold against it that that would be maybe a little more useful. But there are notes here that you could do X that in the passive voice it is very important. We just need to, you know, bring that back to a threshold, you have done this, or you are not in compliance. But anyway, all right well I mean, again, I like that it's a good first start. I think, obviously, I have some preferences for making it better but I wouldn't necessarily want to see all of those preferences dealt with before we let it in.  Yeah, this one's on my homework thing it's been sat here for a month plus and I need to do my homework on it so, but I don't see that it's getting more comments, let me take that and run with it. I'll pull request out and get the comments that Pankaj dealt with and deal with it most of what he said, I believe we agreed was recommended rewording to make it more understandable but I didn't see anything in there that was desperately needed to improve the content it's really just the comprehensibility that seems to be in debate. With a few rewordings then I would hope that's ready for commit, which means I'll take the work in progress label off of it as well. This is Jeff story, which apparently is now some getting old, so probably in need of actual committing. Yes, should be on the next call after the time shift he had said that he won't have a conflict. Good.  I'm not seeing again huge objections to the content just niggling reword stuff again so if we can persuade him to do his homework. But if we can persuade him to do his homework and do a rewrite on this, then I would like to think that we could actually be in a position to approve it next week rather than debate it, that would be good. But it doesn't again look like anyone's got significant objections. Yeah, best held until Jeff himself has a opportunity to comment on that is Jeff running tomorrow next week's meeting as well. I'm not sure sounds about right. I think he's got about a month of saved up meetings to run so that seems yeah we can take off. It doesn't doesn't matter but anyway yeah we'll get him to do a rewrite and if we can get him to give it the once over before next week's meeting then it's another one that should be ready for approval so. In terms of homework then I have my pull request to update. We'll see if we can get Jeff to do this one. Taylor if you can talk to Ben and see if you can do the work that's necessary on the other one and again speaking personally exclusively. I think it's got the right content it just needs as much as anything formatting with a bonus dose of references if we can throw it in then as well as moving it to the right location. Yeah, Victor, can you take a look at the air gap again and see if if there's anything that's blocking approval thumbs up. Pond ties messages were more of stuff that could be expanded on but not blockers. Okay. Yeah, I can take a look. I'm not sure what yours were but it may have already been addressed. Well I guess my, my comments were regarding other tools that I discovered. I mean, nothing besides having new references. Yeah, so there was one comment there I saw about a short definition. Just, you just passed it and from vector. Yeah, so this one here is Jeff talking about how you do license management the applications on top. And that's going to be a little difficult and asking for definition which I think is obviously worthwhile. I mean, what is edge what is air gap to I can see where that one takes us. Or maybe we can resolve that and maybe we can request the additional bad definition into the glossary project needs to appear. Yes. If you think there is a simple way of rewording this then obviously you can propose a change on this as opposed to to give Jeff some clues as to what you're looking for. If you think it involves clarity in the glossary then please stick a pull request on the glossary. And then we can get that in first and then just got more to work with whichever you like to do. But the, you know, let's just try and have this ready for approval by the end of the week and again we will go chase Jeff and you can certainly communicate with him in the channel and get that done. But it's been outstanding for plenty of time at this point and it would be worth our time to finish the job. Did we make the change on how many the number of members that we want for approval. No, I don't recall seeing that so talked about adjusting it lowering it first. I believe it's five and you were talking about making it three and to do that you would have to change the government's file. So, so then we need a back on that. Yeah. All right. But it does seem like a sensible plan because we're struggling to get attendance at the moment so. Yeah, this one we need one vote even. I think I'll give my thumbs up after this call. This one has no thumbs up I don't think that's right we don't even have one. No but we do have three people who've looked at it and actually it's more than three because I've read it enough times at this point. Yeah, I'm ready to give it a thumbs up. I was holding off to get more opinions. Well, the opinions do ask for changes so there's a little bit left on that well I say that some of them have obviously seen changes or at least there have been changes since. Yeah. All right. The little circle for on Kai and Victor, I guess, bill as well. They're circled by their names. The recycle button or whatever that is, it should re request yep. There we go. Then they'll all get notices and if they come back and want more changes they can request and otherwise we can move forward. All right. Well, we'll call that dealt with that is the last pull request so I can, I will work my way back up the stack of what we were talking about. Right, so that is the end of what's been put down in the agenda. Does anyone have anything else they would like to raise while we're all basically meeting. Well, the spring break I don't, I didn't know if that was. And you can move that maybe the very last beyond elections. The, I will not be, I'll be out for spring break. Okay. I'm not, but that doesn't mean so I wouldn't like a day off. So, I will take the judgment of the majority. Anyone else with preferences. I feel like we haven't got that many Americans here so spring break may not be a concern to everybody but I think if we march the 14th is literally next week isn't it. Yeah. Okay, so let's take that to the channel and make sure we actually have everybody's consensus. So here is, I don't care either way. I'm not going to say if there's not enough people coming then I would obviously cancel but I'm perfectly capable of coming along so. Ideally the next. Yeah, the next one Jeff real beyond to help me with some of those things forward. I see Lucina typing so if you volunteered for that. Lucina, you got audio today. Okay, let's let's go with. Well if Lucina does it then Lucina does it if not one of the rest of his needs to jump in but. But yes so we'll double check on that. It's not quite the same as President's Day but you never know. All right. And again unless anyone's got anything more to raise then that would seem to be the end of today's work. Anything else. No, and Lucina and chat said she'll take care of it so I think we're good. Thanks and thanks everyone else. Bye bye. All right, thank you everybody.


By the year 2000, the FAA will likely require further reductions in aircraft noise. More than a decade of research in development by the aeronautics industry has focused on compliance. After two years of wind tunnel tests, a model designed to meet that proposed FAA standard is crated and shipped for further testing. Designed by Pratt & Whitney, a division of United Technologies, the model was tested in two of the six wind tunnels at NASA Lewis Research Center in Cleveland, Ohio. The joint effort between NASA and this leading manufacturer of aircraft engines explored the acoustics, aerodynamic performance and the operability of the advanced ducted propeller known as the ADP. Initial indications are that from this new design, a quieter, better performing engine will emerge. The model scaled to one-sixth of the actual design was tested here in this tunnel, commonly called the 9x15, which are the dimensions of the wind chamber itself. This tunnel is nested in the return leg of the 8x6 tunnel. While the 8x6 has supersonic capabilities, only the subsonic speeds were used to test the ADP. For the Aeropropulsion Facilities and Experiments Division, this project began over three years ago. At that time, Lewis engineers started working closely with Pratt & Whitney to define the test parameters for the model. This preparation ensured that the wind tunnels and the model were ready for each other. The tunnel control room is the hub of ADP research. State-of-the-art equipment allows researchers to collect valuable data and monitor testing. At the close of this last day, an engineer reviews one of the nine test phases. Successful testing of any model requires the skills and talents of a number of people. Test day brings together those abilities in preparation for each experiment. And so begins the test. The tunnel operators control tunnel systems to obtain desired air speeds. The ADP was tested over a Mach number range from 0 to 0.85. The model operator controls RPMs by regulating the compressed air to the model's drive turbine. RPMs for the ADP ranged from windmill to 12,300. During testing, the model's safety is ensured by continuous monitoring of vibration and temperatures. The engineer who monitors stress ensures that the predetermined stress limits on blades, stator veins, and instrumentation are not exceeded. The primary researcher has lead responsibility for all aspects of ADP testing. Ongoing communications about the tunnel and model aid the Lewis researcher in making decisions about each test condition. The primary researcher is supported by a counterpart who helps monitor online test data. All these people depend on the electronics engineer who has complete responsibility for the electronics in the model, the hardware, the instrumentation, and the computer system. The ADP is a gear-driven fan with variable pitch, much like a turbo prop. However, a duct encircles the fan to suppress noise generated by the airfoil. Researchers discuss a primary focus of this ADP testing. Acoustics. Various inlet and spinner configurations were tested in the 8x6 to help determine aircraft noise affecting communities. Cabin noise affecting passengers is also a consideration. 12 microphones for these tests were mounted on a 1-inch thick aluminum plate and suspended above the model. They are calibrated daily to ensure accuracy. Pratt & Whitney is kept informed during each phase of testing. Pratt & Whitney's interest is supervised by Company Vice President William Webb. The testing here at Lewis is possible because of the wind tunnel facilities here at Lewis are capable of doing both performance testing and noise testing with one setup. Not many tunnels in the United States are capable of doing that. Lewis has developed what we call a rotating microphone that lets us measure noise and separate the things within the engine that create those noise. Such that if we have one component that's creating an offensive signal, we can then work on that one component and not have to waste our time struggling through all of the engine. That same focused approach characterized all of the acoustic testing, which included blade angles, inlets and spinners, stator vanes, and angles of attack. The other primary focus of ADP testing was aerodynamic performance. During the past two years, testing focused on four inlet spinner configurations and numerous blade angle settings. Mechanics were called on to make changes for each configuration. Hundreds of performance tests, including investigation of thrust and drag, resulted in thousands of test points. A sheet laser flow test provides an image of reverse thrust necessary during landing. The Laser Doppler Velocimeter, or LDV, is a non-intrusive measurement of velocity with light beams. It was used to map the reverse thrust velocity profile. To determine the operability of the ADP, the model was tested at various angles of attack, simulating takeoff and landing configurations. When modifications were necessary for a specific investigation, model changes, instrumentation and repairs were performed on-site by Lewis experts, minimizing any delays in the test program. NASA researchers are responsible for accurate gathering of the real-time data on the Escort D-plus computer system. The laborious process of analyzing and interpreting the information will continue for several months. Researchers map a trend within the test data and determine engine noise and performance. This helps to validate analytical codes, ultimately leading to improved technology and design codes for future industry use. Our technology readiness development program is scheduled to run through 1995. We anticipate that we could be ready to start the development of a commercial product in the 1994 to 1995 time period if the market is there that would support the cost of developing a new product. That would let us put an engine in service, that is, carrying revenue-generating passengers around the year 2000. NASA Lewis' leading role in long-range aeronautics research consistently places the center at the forefront of technology development. As flying on the ground for the model ends, the future for advanced ducted propulsion begins.


It's wonderful to thank you. To thank first of all Gabrielle and Joan for their scientific vision because all this program was really assembled by them. And we've seen incredible talks, three days of really beautiful talks and amazing diversity from the talks of Freddie written by hand with this idea of going totally orthogonally to whatever other people are doing to talks which are the technical mathematics to beautiful empirical and algorithmic results. I think this is really the DNA of this community and I'd like to come back to that. It's strange to be crossing 60 years and be here. I mean you've heard the originally saying after three years I just wanted to get out of there. My goal was essentially go to the US. And this has been much more than just research. It's the style of life. It's meeting many friends who are here. And it's meaning also. A sense of beauty sometimes when we do research, excitation. I think it's an incredible, incredible life that we're having. Maybe the one who took the RORB can realize that half of France is on strike because people don't want to work two years more. And Rogen Abayji is 90 and still is hoping to continue to work. And I think most of us hope that this journey will be as long as possible. And that's a reflection of how lucky we are to do that work of research, pursuit of knowledge, teaching with a wonderful student. So that's a luck I didn't imagine one second having. Now there is also a kind of sense of family that we all have. Of course our advisors, siblings, which are all the ones with whom we've been working, students. I have a position which is a bit different because most of you are single child children. You had one advisor. I mean this particular situation where I had two parents. Two parents but who were totally separated. I think they never met in fact.  But she had a life which is a real novel. At age 11 she went from, she escaped Gestapo, went from Slovakia to United States escaping in 1967, 1968. The Soviet tanks arriving in the US being one of the first women who ever got a PhD at Stanford and then creating with few pioneers around the whole field. So she is someone who is doing, at the same time she had this love for mathematics but from far away. And then I had an adopted father that you've heard about, Yves Meilleur who is this incredible pure mathematician who was also in love with application but this was a totally platonic love. He was never even touched it. He was just loving the idea of the possibility of application. And my DNA is a kind of crossing of these two approaches. I think that's also the DNA of this community and this is why it's for me it's an amazing community. This mix of engineering, mathematics, physics and I think that's what kept it so juvenile. Why 40 years ago we are still so many in this conference with young people around. And I think that it was very interesting. The talk of Dave about this tension between theory and empirical work is very interesting. But I think I have a slightly different view about it. Yes we are in the temple of mathematics, of pure mathematics and yes to be able to freely work on pure ideas is something that can be incredibly creative. But sometimes you end up in a hole, end up specializing and things get narrower and narrower. And experiment is what shakes up all this. No respect whatever for beautiful theory. If it doesn't match the table it just doesn't work. And I think that this is extremely important. And on the other hand experiment without theory, without mathematics has essentially little meaning. So for me beauty is there. Beauty is the meeting of these incredible ideas and we've seen that during these three days and the experimental. In some sense what's happening in the world. And the last thing a bit general before going in something a bit more concrete is that I found there is something a bit strange in the way the idea develops. Jan you spoke about all these things that had to be wiped out and have to be rethinking about it. Which is indeed important to try to say let's get out. That's our first reflex. Let's get out. Let's go. But what we all experience a bit is we come back to these ideas. And my impression is that there is no linear time in research. It's more like a spiral. We get out and we come back and we revisit but from a slightly different point of view. And the amazing thing is that this spiral is moving and we have no idea where it's going. But we come back to similar idea from totally different point of view. And for me there is three ideas that I've been turning around thinking I would free myself coming back. Three ideas which really have no origin in time. The first one of course is Yarki. Yarki which has been translated into scale separation which became wavelets. And of course I spent part of my life on that. The second one is all that it can be. It's this idea of simplicity, Occam razor that Remy spoke about that became sparsity, regularity. And the third one was the most strange to me at the beginning which is the idea of serendipity which is compress sensing randomness, random projections. And what I like very much about deep networks is that it's allowing to revisit all these ideas from a totally different point of view and forces us to rethink all that. And that's a little bit what I'd like to speak about during these 15 or 20 more minutes. So the beginning is of course the architecture of convolutional neural network which is still this beautiful mystery whether it's for supervised or unsupervised learning what is the underlying mathematics. And we know that there is structure, there is a lot of prior which is hidden within this architecture and at the same time I hope that the time that learning was not necessary. I lost my bet, I lost the three star restaurants and I want to come back to that because of course I want to get something out of these three star restaurants but there is many ideas that is coming out of it. Okay, what's the role of the architecture, non-linearity channels and so on? What about the weights? This is incredibly complicated because each time you relearn you have new set of weights. How can we build models of these weights? And of course the Graal which is understand the output. What is the class of functions which correspond to the output? What are the functional spaces? What can we learn? What we can't learn? How to deal with this famous curse of dimensionality? So I said I wanted to go and look back and maybe it's in the sense of what Guillermo spoke about it's always very interesting to go back to read original fundamental work and that's what I spent part of my time during COVID doing. So the problem under unsupervised learning is about estimating probability distribution but in physics it means understanding the physics because it means understanding the energy if you get the gradient of the energy you have access to the force, you have access to the interactions and can we estimate that of course without suffering from the curse of dimensionality this is at the center of statistical physics. And people have been trying to see what was the origin of wavelets and so nobody ever found and each time you look in a different field you find the origin of everything. So one of the origin is the renormalization group and this incredible work of Gadanoff and especially Wilson who got the Nobel Prize in the 90s. So that's another way to view the idea of hierarchy, pyramid and so on. And the key idea of Wilson is that when you have a very high dimensional system as you can encounter in physics if you want to look at the probability distribution of this field which is the cosmic web what you should do is average, sub-sample, average, sub-sample, coarsen up progressively and look at the evolution of the probability distribution at each of the scale. And the key idea is that this probability distribution has a very regular evolution across scale if you normalize the coefficient. And what that means is that one way to describe this probability distribution and this is explicit in the calculation of Wilson is that you should first begin at very coarse scale where you have a very low dimensional system and then you progressively move across scale by looking at the conditional probability distribution at fine scale given the coarse scale and you have a decomposition of your probability distribution as a kind of Markov evolution. The key idea is that these conditional probability distribution and we see it all over AI is much simpler if you understand how to build the conditioning. Now this was done in statistical physics in a relatively simple model like ferromagnetic models or easing models where basically in the energy you only have a quadratic term and what is called a scalar term which is non-convex which force the value of the image to be either in the neighborhood of 1 or minus 1 which is corresponding to spins. So depending upon the temperature you can have a totally disordered system or very long range correlations. Now the beauty of the work of Wilson what he showed is that everything can be simply understood if you look at these conditional probabilities. The only problem is that that never went so far never has been applied to turbulence interesting things because there was no model and that's where machine learning came in as we'll see. Now before doing that one of the idea of Wilson was in fact that you should decompose with wavelets and in the 1970s he came out with these wavelets. The idea is that if you want to look a high resolution image compared to a low resolution image what you should do is extract the complementary information of the high resolution image that's sorry so that you can build a high resolution image from the low resolution image. And what is this complementary information? These are the high frequencies that you extract by doing convolution with wavelets. Now what we now have are techniques to do that in orthogonal bases and that's what a wavelet will do you get the low frequency and the orthogonal wavelet coefficients the low frequency you sub decompose and so on. Now the key idea is that now this conditional probability of high resolution given low resolution and that's in the calculation of Wilson you can view it as the probability of the wavelet coefficient given the low frequency and the low frequency you can sub decompose it into wavelets so all this can translate into interaction across scale. So the key idea is that you can understand this very complex probability distribution if you can understand the interaction conditional probabilities across scales. So that's the decomposition. And one of the surprise but again that appears indirectly in the calculation of Wilson is that these conditional probabilities instead of being global which leads to curse of dimensionality they are local. If you want to understand the conditional probability of the high given the low frequency you don't need to look at the very large neighborhood and that was what Eero Simoncelli was referencing you can get very local conditioning so that you have no more curse of dimensionality. More than that this is totally non-stationary but the non-stationarity is only in the low frequency. The conditional probability can be stationary this is why you can implement that with a convolutional network and local. Now before going to convolutional network this is a harmonic analysis conference so let's look once at a Fourier transform. This is an image this is a Fourier transform. So a wavelet transform if you show it as a normal net it computes the low frequency and all the high frequency bands that you can see here is convolution. Next layer, next layer. Now when you look at these images of a boat you can see that they are very dependent across scale. The edges are essentially the same because they correspond to the geometry, the contour of the boat. So this is very dependent upon the other scale. However and what is the difficulty and why this problem of scale dependence hasn't been solved until the coming out of these neural nets is that this dependence is totally nonlinear. Why is it nonlinear? Because if you look at the correlation of the wavelet coefficient at one scale with wavelet coefficient at another scale, whatever position this is always going to be zero because of the phase fluctuation because these coefficient lives in different frequency bands so their correlation are zero. So if you want to have a correlation which is nonzero you need to put a nonlinearity which is going to kill the phase and the nonlinearity can be rectifier or if you want to make it simpler from a math point of view you can take the modulus and look at these correlation matrices. These correlation matrices are nonzero anymore so you can capture these famous conditional probabilities across scale. However, these matrices are huge because you have to compute them for any scale any position but if you do a new transform, a new wavelet transform you basically nearly diagonalize these covariance matrix. What does that mean? That means the only thing that you need to do is to get the correlation across the channels and you are going to get a correlation which is stationary, therefore this is a one-one convolutional kernel. So the only thing that you need is to compute these covariance along the channels if you use a relu or a modulus and let's say a skip connection. Okay, so that's the kind of work that was carried with many of you. In fact, there's one who is here, Rudi Morel Siphenz and the idea was can we do what we couldn't do with Wilson couldn't do meaning can we now deal with very complex fields such as these turbulent fluids or this kind of cosmic web. And the answer is yes with only one image, 500 coefficients not only you get here good-looking images but these are maximum entropy models so it guarantees maximum variability and it reproduces third order or fourth order moment so you really have models. But that works for that kind of unstructured problem what about image classification and that's where I'm coming to the bet. Okay, so if you want to do classification the first idea and that was initiated by Johann is to say okay let's do that kind of cascade of transformations and what we can also do because we know that dealing with the correlation across scale can be useful is to try to understand the properties that we should implement across the channels and we can think about that for example in audio we can think about that in different kind of signals and there was some very beautiful work that was done by Joachim Menden Vincent Le Stenland and in the case of audio it works pretty well. Now there was this bet to go but come back to it. So the bet is scattering transform is there 20% on C410 and ResNet is 8% 50% on ImageNet and ResNet is doing four time better so you have a huge gap and that's where I think tables are interesting because they are asking deep questions. When you have such a gap that means you are really missing something huge okay it's not just a detail and so the question is what is it? And so as Edouard said I took a guy who is brilliant very good and courageous and say please save the bet okay so that was his mission and the conclusion is basically too bad for you you have to pay okay so I had to pay but at least I had a great question okay what are we going to put in this role and there's two very brilliant students Florentin Guth and John Zarkar who came say okay so let's learn and what they proposed is to just learn the one one convolutional network here so keep in space the wavelets so we don't learn the spatial filter is it enough to just learn the one one convolutional filter and the answer is yes so okay you're very happy you fill up the table you had the right percentage the problem is that you lost the math okay because now you've learned but what is it that you've been learning and as I said before when you are in a state of mind as is sparsity wavelets and so on what you try to find are groups convolutional long groups and try to interpret these linear filters as convolutional long groups so we looked into the weights and when you want to find something you always find it so of course we found Fourier transform along the thing the only problem is we only found it here and then it's a math beside the first layer like the math so that was the fault of the network of course but okay after a while you have to try to find some kind of new ideas and model for L when you look at the literature there are some very beautiful things that have been happening in the last 3, 4, 5 years let me come back to one hidden layer network one hidden layer network so fully connected you have your input your hidden layer here that you can think of feature vector and you have these linear weights that is going to define the output okay from these inner product with the weight that corresponds to the line of the operator now there is one observation is that when the width increase and that was very much mentioned by Francis Bach you see that the kernel in other words the inner product of the feature vector in x and x prime has a tendency to converge when the width goes to infinity and the reason is that what you are looking is at the product of these inner product and if the weights looks a bit random and have some decorrelations and are identically distributed this is going to converge to an expected value and that was the model of a rachemian rest so why random why random because first of all you begin with a random initialization so and you make a stochastic gradient descent and you can show that when the width is increasing because all these coefficients can be inverted it has a tendency to converge to identically distributed weights which can become nearly independent now the consequence of that is something that is important and that Frantz and Guthrie align is that if you look at these hidden layers which is totally random which is going to converge from one training to the other training you know that it's going to converge to a kernel which is a deterministic kernel so this kernel you can write it as an inner product of a deterministic feature vector what that means is that all these random layers can be viewed as a rotation of a deterministic feature vector it's important to understand deep network why? one may be of the most difficult question in deep network is to understand the dependency upon these weights these weights are random in different layers but how does it depend one upon the other one answer is that basically they are all rotation of a fixed feature vectors and it is these rotations that specify the dependency from one layer to the other to understand that there is this very nice theorem proved by Florentin which basically say ok at the first layer obviously this is deterministic it's the data so phi of x is the identity if you suppose the property to be true in other words and j-1 it's going to be some rotation of a fixed deterministic feature vector if the weights are themselves a rotation of i,d feature vector following a law then you can show that when the width converge the next layer is itself going to be a rotation of a fixed feature vector in other words the kernels are going to converge now is that true you can come back to the network and verify it now if you go and that's the work of Florentin, Gaspar Rochette and Brismina if you go on neural nets such as on CIFAR and you look at all layers you can see that indeed modulo rotation all the layers activation layers they converge to a fixed layer up to a random rotation now the question then is what is this fixed layer this deterministic layer in that framework another way to say it is what the probability distribution of the random feature now another observation at least in CIFAR is that initially the weights are gaussian when the iteration goes on it says if it's only the covariance of these gaussians which change they change a lot so if you look at the weights you almost go back to the initialization that has an important implication is that the weights are almost gaussian conditionally to the previous one so how do you verify that you look, you whiten the weights and you look at the distribution of their eigenvalue of the covariance matrix it should converge to a well-known distribution which is called for j equal to it's very nice as it goes on it remains almost true up to some outliers about 10% here which can have an important role I'll come back to it but then you have this model so let me here's the model the mathematical model now is the following each layer the weights are gaussian random variable each line of the matrix is independent but they are conditionally gaussian why? because the covariance matrix is a rotated covariance you have the fixed covariance and the rotation is due to the previous layer the previous layer have been rotated so they rotate the next layer so the only thing which is random here is the fact of course that it's a gaussian random variable and sorry the covariance has a dependency upon the previous layers through these rotations the consequence of that and I suppose that that has some relation with the first slide probably of shihab who opened the conference it's converging to a rainbow so why a rainbow? because at each layer these random weights they converge when the width increase to a fixed feature vector and how is it the fixed feature vector computed? you have a covariance matrix or the square root of the covariance matrix which in fact does a dimension reduction and then you have the random feature which have been whitened and the random feature they define what is called dot product kernel the kernel is only which depends upon the entry z and z prime only depends upon the inner product so you have covariance a fixed feature vector of a dot product a covariance up it goes and each time what changes from one learning to the other is just the covariance matrix so it's just the color of the rainbow that changes when you do within such a model one training or the other training and the function space here which is a reproducing kernel Hilbert space now can be entirely specified mathematically and is parameterized by the covariance ok so does it work back to the numerics if it works that means that once you've learned one network you can estimate the covariance you can create zinions of networks without learning just by re-sampling your Gaussian matrices you are going to get totally different weights and it should give you the same performance so you try that's the original performance that's the gap no more learning you just re-sample and here you lose a bit about 3% now when you see a result like that you are used to read papers in image processing or machine learning you may say hey why do you show C410 and not ImageNet so the answer could be of course oh I didn't try and so on but nobody would trust me if I was saying I didn't try it gets more problematic it gets more problematic because we can see here in the layer you see you have these outliers and these outliers in C4 are not so bad it works pretty well these outliers begins to look more difficult in ImageNet but now you can do math and think okay what's the mathematical nature of these outliers these seems like what one would think of some kind of fixed features or whatever interesting questions to think about so great that's not the end of the story that's how I would end up this thing however for me there is something a bit new because I was always thinking again in deterministic term and compressed sensing or random projection whatever came into the picture and so we have a new set of math problems so I'd like just to finish by thanking all of you especially in some sense the more narrow family namely Rujena Yves and all the students who gave me so much energy and so much pleasure to do research and all of you siblings who came thank you very much for coming to these three days thanks very much I mean the conference is over we just want to thank everyone for coming I think for us it has been super fun you know it has been a pleasure to see your family all the three generations we have seen and maybe more happy birthday someone has to decide he will be the next one I hope in Israel maybe if you want to organize a birthday send him an email yeah these are professional now you can almost spend your life doing that ok bye everyone thanks good bye


How can we protect ourselves from the biggest global risks that we face? For this year's Global Risks Report, more than 800 international experts were asked to assess the major threats affecting mankind's stability. Major water crises, failure of climate change adaptation, cyber risks, unemployment and underemployment have all been flagged as high-level threats due to their likelihood and potential impact. Join the conversation to help address global challenges.


Aaron, that was your first look of Sonny Gray out of the pad. What did you think of the job he did? I'm just really excited and proud of the effort, you know. Obviously, it's been tough circumstances for him of late.  And you may not know when. And tonight, obviously, became that moment for him and for him to go out there and pitch like that with confidence, with focus, and so well. Just really excited for him, proud of him, and a good comeback for us. Because of the week he had, do you think that's a little bit more of a meaningful outing for him? Yeah, no doubt. I think there's probably absolutely something to that. You know, when you face adversity and tough times in this game and then get thrown right into the fire in a tough spot and deliver, it's not an easy thing to do.  And who is a guy that didn't make the roster out of spring training, but since he's been called up, it seems like all he does is get big hits. Do you ever allow yourself to think where this team would be if you weren't getting the production from him like you're getting? Not really. I just, he's just been such a good player for us. And, you know, he's so good in the box. Obviously, the home run to get us tied earlier, you know, a little while ago. And then, you know, off a lefty, just changing speeds on him, able to get enough of it. You know, yeah, he's the ability to make adjustments that he's shown throughout the year has been impressive and just another good night for him. Seems like a lifetime ago, but Cece, with a lot of strikeouts tonight, what was he doing well? I thought he just, the command was different tonight. It was better. He had his cutter going, but he was able to flip in his slider for a strike when he wanted to the back door. I thought he threw some good change ups, but just tightened up the command and, you know, had to work hard because they fouled off a lot of pitches. So drove his count up quite a bit and I felt like he worked hard, but for the most part, filling up the zone with his stuff. Is Chapman okay? He's okay. He just, he needed another day down after the long performance the other night, but yeah, he should be, he should be fine. Another guy like Andrew Hart gets back to back change ups and the situation like that.  What is it about, I guess, about maybe the thought process or the ability to adjust that? That's just, you know, I think our guys and I put our young guys in there as well of being prepared and having a plan. And, you know, that's just homework, paying attention and going up there with an idea of what you want to do in a big situation and deliver it. What is the next step for Sonny now? What is the next step for Sonny? Is it just to continue it? Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously some extended length today, you know, we'll probably be down a couple of days again, but, you know, we'll for now stay in that role and you never know what could happen or things change as the days unfold or different needs pop up. But for now, he'll remain in that role. Is it Jeffman's arm knee just overall body? Just overall, I think, just needed another day of bounce back. You know, I think he threw as many pitches as he's thrown so long in that game. So just, I think, just a little stiff in all the days on. I would expect him to be available tomorrow. I would expect him to be available tomorrow, yeah. Bird okay, just like the men's up with. Bird okay, Sadanio's there one pretty heavy split guy and you know, that's Luke's here for that, for that situation, but Birdie is a guy that usually against most all lefties, I'm very comfortable with him in those spots just because he's able to usually work walks even when a leftie is really tough. But Sadanio's the one guy that we just like to match up a little bit better there.