Welcome to vlog Thursday number 300 and Yes, I'm in a hotel room because I'm at Gurkhan. Well, I'm actually not at Gurkhan. I'm back in a hotel room. Gurkhan is that way It's about 0.2 miles away Yeah, that's uh Hey, I see people here that are also at Gurkhan. So hey the at least someone in the chat I'm maybe I'm outing someone saying you're at Gurkhan. There's a few people in chat. So Um hopefully the audio is working well. I'm using my DJI audio device it I did testing it seemed to be functional I don't know I don't I assume because I see the bar is moving that it's working properly I don't really know but the cool thing is I can actually walk around Because the microphone is attached to me and it's wireless. Uh, so you can see my Fancy hotel room one of my puzzles though. I have a new laptop and this new laptop it uh It's got a kind of potato camera on it like I'm not really Impressed with the camera and it puzzles me because The camera is relatively small on my phone But the camera on the phone is damn amazing and the camera on my new laptop is potato So I don't completely understand that why we haven't achieved um Really high quality cameras and laptops not that I want a camera that takes like uh You know Incredible photos or something like that and I see you know someone else What laptop has a good camera? I don't know I looked around And realized yeah the only way to get a decent camera And I didn't feel like bringing my camera gear because the only thing I planned to record was this um, and I I was just like okay if I need to record something I use my phone Because I can bring my camera gear and do an input stream into hearing it gets a better video quality But I was like It isn't really worth it. I don't think there's me in a high definition isn't going to help any so Um screen is too thin for decent lens No, no no no if you see how small they make these the selfie cam So I'm just not talking about the zoom cameras, but the selfie cam on this phone Is definitely thin enough to fit in my laptop screen. Um, but yeah, nonetheless the laptop I get I don't know that I'll review it. Um, but I will speak to it Um at some point it's it's a uh the Dell inspirant. So it's not anything, you know exotic Um, I bought it because the OLED screen on it is just wonderful And uh, that was kind of a seller is the selling point of it was having a great OLED screen Um, I don't think about it though about how I want to discuss it because there's things I like and things I don't like but the things I don't like are less about this laptop except for one particular thing It's missing a stupid power indicator So you don't know if it's on or off like for sure because it doesn't have a power light anywhere on it I don't know why they omitted that That's just really strange to me. So Oh, well not ranting too much about that Um, I've been trying to start my vlogs out with where I'm at where I'm gonna be Where I'm gonna be is still gonna be it nation. I have some other events that I'll probably be signing up for soon that I'll be at uh, but the Where I'll be tomorrow is gurkon part two So, uh, I met a lot of people that knew me from youtube and it kind of surprised me I didn't think a security conference would have as many people that said would be like, hey, tom I like your videos and it turns out more people here than I expected So it was a great interactions Uh, as always you whenever I'm at these events and a bunch of people like I don't want to take up your time I'm like, no, I'm here to interact with people like I left I left the confines of my basement to go interact with people So I'm fine when people come up and talk to me Yeah, so Uh Yeah, Travis can confirm laptop has a really good screen on it. It is just yes Yeah, I wish Xavier was here. Um By the way Xavier feel free to message me. I have someone. I don't know if they they're quite got the budget for you yet Um, they want some application testing and I was like, I know the guy who will do it It's a it's a startup company getting some funding But um, they want to have someone test their app. So I'll just text me Xavier. So I don't forget so I can Make the connection, uh, there for app testing, uh, but nonetheless. Yes gher con definitely a dope a lot of fun Uh, great conference so far day one has been great. I didn't lose my voice yet, but peer pressure is trying to get me, um The uh My friends are trying to get me to go back out. It's rainy and cold out. I'm kind of like I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to go back out or not because I'm feel I feel fine Um, but I don't want to exhaust myself That's going to be day two day two because day there's no day three after day two. I'm like Let it rip and have fun. So Hey Tom no any good text looking for a job in the Cayman Islands. No I don't think so not that I'm aware of So nobody in the Cayman Islands who messaged me perfect All right I got Xavier already checks me. That's who's texting me Xavier's on it Actually, this isn't late for Xavier because he's in different time zone. I'm in eastern standard time Xavier's a couple time zones the other way uh Hey, I already see someone in the chat saying they'll go to the Cayman Islands for the right price So very cool. Um, but nonetheless Sun's still hot in california Sun is long gone here in michigan. I mean, it's nine. It's 9 30 at night That's why I'm doing this at night because I didn't really the the internet was not, um In the best shape to try to do it at all from the conference Plus the conference is kind of no easy and things like that and I really wish stream yard I got a test that again to see if they fixed it stream yard didn't work very well with my phone They've got some bugs working on phones Uh, so eventually I like to do this for my phone because that would be a lot easier But uh any cool talks today absolutely, um man the talk on how, uh The dmx protocol works and uh hacking lights on bridges I tell you in in terms of fun talks Absolutely a fun adventure talking on hacking. Um, that it was really great And it was given by I mean my friend Jason sliggles here And he's friends with some of the people that gave the talk and it was like he's he's like Time I know it's just about dmx lights, but you're gonna love the way the presentations put together and I did I love the presentation. It was wonderful. Um, there's another one How to rob a bank. Hopefully that doesn't get me demonetized. I mean that was that was the title of the talk And the talk was of course first thing he does is give credit to Jason street who infamously Or you know a red tamer great storyteller and also someone who robs banks for a living Legally of course, but also had robbed the wrong bank at one point in time. So, um, that's a great story By the way, that's the if you want to hear the story of when Jason street robbed the wrong bank. That's dark neck diaries episode. Uh, I think it's called the bank job so, but yeah, definitely, um It is definitely uh, great. Oh, yeah, I see other people talk commenting That's just that talk was a lot of fun too. That I really enjoyed that one Yeah, the uh, it's cool with the Christmas lights It's even it's even crazier to learn how many bridges and things are controlled with it. Um, and buildings and How no one secures Any of it. Yeah, nobody puts this stuff on proper security. It's just yeah It's it's rough Yeah, it's rough in terms of security. Um, it was just shenanigans all day of all the things they were able to find and you think it'd be harder to find Uh, these things in there were but it turns out you can find your target pretty well because It it's documented in the city meeting notes and the or uh, state Meeting notes for buying the bridge as part of their uh, prerequisite. So Yeah So it's just There's so much there. Also. I learned about some tools So there's always that when you learn about a different tool, um One of them was really simple that I didn't know about and let me see if I can pull this up I didn't know there was a site for doing this and let me see if I can share the screen because why not I'm sure this will present Share screen and uh, has anyone ever heard of bird hunt before And uh, it finds tweets So you can zoom into places and find a location And then find tweets about said location. So confirm location search for tweets And what it's doing is is giving you um certain geocode areas To find tweets went in and I'm like, this is just really clever how it works That's so you confirm the radius of what you want to search And uh, yeah, you can search for tweets in that area. It's just kind of novel Not one I'd heard heard about before so I think we can probably confirm to try it again confirm locations drag out for how many Kilometers you want to go around it Search for tweets. It's pulling up another window with the results in it But by the way What's interesting to me and I can actually bring this over to the other screen now Is what it's doing here. It's I didn't know you could just type geocode into twitter and it would work so It's kind of neat. So this is the I'll actually paste this into the stream This is the geocode. It's putting in And you can put that right into twitter. I just didn't know I know what I figured twitter track track these things but um, yeah, that's kind of unexpected that you can Just drop that into the twitter The geocode like that and then the last part the last comma is radius. So you start with the Longitude longitude and then you add in a number of kilometers You want and it will search for tweets within those crump with the in those kilometers. I mean, it's just it's really clever Um, are you wearing those iot devices possibly spying? Not really. I mean sure. I don't I don't really use them In my area. So i'm very conscious of them. I don't think they're The absolute risk. Um, but they're they're more than a zero risk. I can say that about them They don't keep me up. They're not what keeps me up at night when it comes to things on the internet. I'll say that so Sorry, I have a topic comment But it's one to pop in and say thanks for the work you do and sharing with everyone You see me making a few times when updating new mic charts. Awesome. Glad I could help It's all on topic Uh, I'm actually kind of full of french fries.  So I'm kind of Burping it up a little sorry about that So I got my water sitting here Let's see Um, I didn't have a whole lot of topics because I wasn't sure how late I would run this vlog till Uh talking to people so I didn't really sit down and come up with much. Mostly it's just been wandering around gherkan and Just having a great time in general Enjoying it. Um Kind of a side note that I found interesting though So I switched it so my laptop and this dell inspron has the fingerprint reader. So I haven't set up The integration with linux is pretty nice for fingerprint reading You can just put your finger on there for sudo or you can put your finger on there to log in but Here's where the butt comes in This just happened and it took me longer. I took me an extra few minutes when When I wanted to set up the live stream, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna turn my laptop and log in and I'm like, oh cool I can and I just set this up before I left So I hadn't rebooted my computer since I turned on the fingerprint reader If you log in with the fingerprint reader without typing your password It doesn't unlock your key ring And if you don't unlock the key ring you goof up google and how it does its data store in chrome for all your log ins So even though you unlock the key ring once it starts up without the key ring It's broke and it breaks a bunch of stuff in google chrome For all your logins. So I had to spend time logging back in to google chrome Which is annoying because everything's two-factor so I had to go through all the security prompts and set up all my Essentially google chrome then I could go to log into stream yard So I could set up in my login to youtube and actually get a video started So good and bad about using a fingerprint is make sure if the computer is from an off state You at least tip your password once to unlock the key ring And then after it I can use my fingerprint to just unlock it whenever the screen is locked Also works for sudo.  We can't tell them slightly tired. Sorry for the yawning I am probably winding down for the night But do people have any questions for me? Because I'm not talking all night because I know I will run out of voice sooner than later Um, but the the gher con talks, you know, I can bring it up to er con Pull up the schedule and I'll throw an on screen here Because I am excited. There's um Throw it in here For the talks tomorrow Why isn't that doing it? Where's my zoom? settings view make sure it zooms in huh Didn't want to zoom don't know why don't care. I'm over it anyways, uh There we go That's weird. It does that you can't just control zoom. You actually have to pinch zoom on here Um for the compared that's just strange Um, anyways, let's look at what's for tomorrow tomorrow is friday And uh, I'm excited about this j street. It's going to be there talking. So that's definitely excited. Um Let's see why do we keep doing this stuff and how do we get better? I'm trying to figure out what all I'm going to go do there Where does mailware come from beyond simple ways I'm trying to figure out what talks I'm going to do tomorrow But I'm excited j streets here and if you don't know chris roberts, uh, he's pretty infamous too. He's going to be Uh, there as well. So that's going to be exciting at least two people I know that are good speakers that I'm excited about that. I've done it there. Um Ooh defeating perfect professional consumer security systems of 110 dollars the ransomware protection for the holes and uh wrap up in party time So I'll figure those out Huh Am I still running pop for the laptop?  So yeah, this is just neofetch. You see it up here App get installed neofetch and it'll display all the hardware These are relatively heavy laptop But you know gets the job done actually it looks way cooler when I don't have that on the screen right and I just spin There we go You know the room is actually kind of fancy here to the uh I'm up on I got a nice view of everything down here.  So Uh, I gotta answer that question better for you. I see someone's asking I need to make new ones because there's changes I want to make but I haven't made them I just keep saying we're gonna do it uh There's all of my dot files are there like all the configs I have for things are on github I need to update them. They haven't changed in a while. Um, I'm like I should redo my prompt because it seems like something to do and it's a nerd thing to do Because I feel like you can't just leave it the same for a long time. So I need to change it up. But I uh I haven't so those dot files are from a few years ago and they're current because This laptop is I those are the same dot files that are around this laptop when I set it up. So Yeah Grand Rapids is a cool city for sure Actually, so I don't have to spin around here. We'll just contrast the difference here We'll share another tab. Let me stop this one stop Present share screen chrome tab There's a picture of my room with the uh With my camera phone because this phone the the camera on this laptop is potato. So Yeah, it's night and day difference between the two of them and then uh Maybe another picture of it Oh, there we go And that's what the room looks like. So It looks like that when tom first got there now, uh The bed is no longer made and I don't make the bed. That's that's something I I don't like doing so Have I used the plug-in seek with elastic search before no, I haven't really spent much time with it I want to learn zeke because it's pretty cool, but um, it's it's been on my to-do list for a while And I don't use elastic search. So I mean I use gray log which uses elastic in the back end But I'm not I'm not usually using it gray log has been one of my go-to tools I've also used elastic in a security onion Because I like the way it's implemented in there, but I don't I don't regularly. I mean I'm not in security. I mean very often I mean gray log a lot more often So I've used them in there in that context, but not in the context of like setting up an elastic server directly. So Another one we use in elastic, um, I don't think it's a bad product or anything like that It's just one. I don't really use it's kind of like I'll use it eventually, but that's not right now I do have a question and maybe people will have an answer to And tell me if this is a new code that I don't know about Why is this exit now? There's one above too and also down the hallway here. So why are the exit signs? On the floor like There's an exit sign Also, there's the exit sign down there too And one's on the floor one's up here. Is that a new code thing? I mean I'm I was puzzled. I don't recall seeing this at any other hotel Are the exit signs always like this is I am confused as anyone knows I'm just curious Because this is strange at this point. I'm like, okay, there's an exit sign on the ground I'm like, why is that I imagine? I mean, there's a logical thing that if there's fire Um, you would need to see you know, I took a picture of the doors So they're down there Yeah, and I I agree. This is the reason I'm assuming this like I'm assuming visibility for smoke that makes complete sense to me But I've never seen it before until now like this is Like I don't know and I've seen we've done new buildings and I've not seen them required this. So Yeah, new code. I I mean the buildings we've done for clients I've never I have not seen any of them and some of our state state buildings were in And I've not seen a single exit sign placed down like that. So, um, I thought I mean It makes sense from the smoke goes up thing, you know heat smoke up See on ground be able to crawl your way out. Awesome. I'm like, I think I get the premise I've just never seen it done before. So Maybe only required in hotels, maybe You know what I never stay in hotels in michigan. That's pretty rare I don't try I mean I don't go many places in michigan where I would be at a hotel So maybe it's a michigan thing because I've been to the hotels in florida and places like that I don't remember seeing it. So it was just one of those things I haven't seen it before. So I thought I would share it with all of you Like, did you know there's this? um I don't think I have much else about gherkan Other than I want to do this tomorrow These are pretty cool. I didn't take too many pictures of them, but Uh, these are gaming pods That it's a battle. It's a multiplayer battle game and it's pretty cool And you climb in these crazy pod things. So I want to do that. That's um, that's not tomorrow's list of things tom wants to get done That's about it. I am Probably gonna go lay on the bed there and watch youtube so um Matter of fact, you know, I wonder if I have an htmi cable so I can hook my laptop up to the tv If not my laptop's going over there to watch youtube And uh, chill out. Well, there's actually there's a couch behind me too Because there's a couch in the little end table. I could put my laptop on there It's a big screen, but it's not big enough to watch all the way across the room um, I don't know. I haven't really I haven't seen how much of a problem it will be for uh v3 and Ublock I don't know Like I know a lot of people make a lot of noise about it But I'm not talk I like to separate through the noise of people being angry about something And make sure I figure out the actionable items Of what needs what can and can't be done. So I don't know and I don't have enough information to Truly understand what will have to be changed and what they will or will not be able to do with v3 manifest.  Sometimes it feels like it's just an excuse to you know, make memes For proximity exercise require the bottom of the sign of your mouth at lesson 604 and no more than 18 above the four code. Okay So terry's going to do the pod things tomorrow too. All right Yeah, it's a group game. It looks fun. I mean who doesn't want to get in a pod and blow things up Uh, nope. I never have I run into the zentinal servers kind of Um, I fixed one for someone who a bunch of things broke when they upgraded it um It was some permission problems I fixed and there was There's been a couple people And they were just trying to I think it was a zentinal server trying to avoid buying support And every time they upgraded it they had to roll it back because it broke um But outside of that. No, I I I've not used it. So I don't really have much to say about it Um, the two people contact me. I don't know what condition led them to a machine that hitting upgrade breaks it But I don't they inherited it. So they didn't really have background information on how it got there. Also, they were Uh Like not linux people at all. So they just weren't sure how any of it worked Um, the person I fixed the upgrade for the upgrade just had all the permissions goofed up And I don't know if it was the upgrade or someone goofed with it. So Yeah Where we drinking now I will have a drink in the hotel lobby, but I don't it's rainy and crappy out jason I'm not sure I want to go out again. I'm sure you can find an area can go drink with him, but I'm I'll pass out if I drink too much. Uh, I'm just tired. So The the hotel lobby here, so I don't know that you want to walk all the way over here. Not that it's very far But it's raining and wet and garbage out right now I'm saving up for my drinking tomorrow Because I don't it's saturday. I got nothing going on. So if I stay out late saturday or friday night, whatever We don't have to check out till 11 on saturday. So Dude, I am tired a little bit brat. There's no doubt See jason's jason's got the peer pressure. Come on. Let's go out I gotta admit these, uh Dji mics like sound really good. I can be anywhere else in the room and wander around I could like sit all the way over here and My voice shouldn't change any I hope because it's just You know, uh, I forget the distance on these but it's it's pretty far So I I got them and I haven't really had time to do this But I want to make a bunch of different videos where I'm doing a few things. That's why I got these microphones for that. So Brett be there in three hours Uh, sorry, Brett. There's only one bed. So you have to figure out the hotel thing. I'm not I'm not sharing Uh, oh we need to finish the bottle of bourbon. Oh, you're heading home tomorrow You're not you're not going to stay in party Yeah, it's a little further for jason to drive back. It's only like it's a little under I mean, I got here in less than three hours. I was I was traveling at a rather high rate of speed Um, so I made it I made it here relatively quick Uh, ah, yes at some point At some point the wife is probably like some assistance with all the children. So Uh Yes Oh, yeah, that's not bad 315 That's not too far Yeah, you're going to because you're coming down 23 back to Toledo Well, I will help you with the bourbon tomorrow So you don't have to take that bourbon home or you can just hand it over to me. I'll I'll make sure it finds a good home We can definitely figure out how to bourbon The microphones, this is just the The d dji wireless mics. There are only ones dji makes it a wireless. So Uh It is just the dji Gji mic wireless microphone system for smartphones cameras laptops portable. It's like 329 Um, they're really nice though. I like them quite a bit All right Well, I'm gonna end this here because I'm gonna chill out and watch youtube and I'll probably fall asleep because I'm tired. I don't know what happened to one of my employees. I'm positive He's still at the bar down the street. So for anyone that's around in the area saying hi to One of my staff that's a gherkin. He's hanging out with some of the gherkin people I told him to just have at it. He's uh, he's a younger man than me So and he's probably not like me and doesn't wake up at 5 a.m. You know, because that's I'm wired that way. That's I don't know how not to wake up at fire on I'm pretty sure he's still at z's. That's where I left him last So I'm gonna assume he's still there. He's got my number if he needs something I mean if I have to rescue or get an uber for my will Yeah, don't lose an eric Yes, we don't want to lose an eric.  He's got his own pass to get in and out of gherkin The badges are rubber by the way. They're kind of cool. I like them It's definitely this is different. I don't have a rubber badge. You know, I'm really disappointed as I I can't find my rubicon badge For those you don't know rubicon it was probably one of the first bigger hacking Conferences I went to and they were printed circuit board badges. Um, and this was all the way back in 2002 or 2001 so it's been a minute and uh Yeah He's got his own room. So I can't necessarily wake him up at 5 a.m I mean I may call his phone, but I don't think he's gonna answer it. So But I tried to collect all the badges from all the places I've been over the years I've I've only lost a couple of them and one of them that I just don't know where it went is my rubicon badge. Um, I thought I had it when I moved One more house ago and it seems like it went missing at my last move to my current house But it was at my office for a long time. So I don't know where how when I moved from my office to my new house Um, where I built my new studio it went missing. So I don't know So, uh, my friend Jason slagle is a badge stealer for events He will register other people's badges. Um, and specifically the badge he gets is Jason McGee's If you haven't heard that name before he's a CEO of connectwise and Jason will always find himself with his badge It is it is a fun conference joke Yes, we're all going to be on Orlando and uh, that's going to be the it nation connect event. So I look forward to seeing At least some of you undoubtedly will be there. Um, and Jason slagle will be wearing Jason McGee's badge We hope that's the goal at least that's Jason's goal and Jason McGee's goal is for Jason slagle not to do that Which it won't happen Jason's going to get the badge I I'd bet on that. I'm not going to bet against that idea And I will be greatly amused by it But thank you everyone for joining say hi to me on twitter say hi to me at gurkon if you're here Uh terry I will see you tomorrow at gurkon. Maybe we'll go Jump in with those pods, but feel free. I'm there to chat and talk and have fun Interacting with everyone I see there.  You know Just actually it was I actually spent a lot of time today talking with some of the vendors Shout out to the people at blue mirror. They're really cool. They make a really awesome.  Maybe or if you want to contact lumera Tell them. Hey, I'd use your product if you had pf sense on there because if enough people ask them to do pf sense Integration with it. They will So maybe that's maybe that's my side in with them is how many people will bug them about it For product awareness. So all right. I'm gonna play with that idea a little bit Oh one last idea so I please leave some comments on this if you're if you made it this far because it'll probably be for a lot of people who watch Just later if you made it to the end here I have an idea that I don't know what I want to do yet In terms of how I want to execute be what I want to do is for everyone.  Maybe a little 3d printed thing with my logo on it I don't know, but I want to have them at the ready. So when people meet me Um, I can just hand it to him as a novelty thing And I don't want it to be stupid, but maybe like saying my name on it Um, but it's something like that like hey, I met tom like I don't know Just one of those things for people who met me in person be like hey, he gave me this thing Uh, so It might be kind of a novel thing to do Uh, I have oh, I have a thing. Let's talk to my perfect.  It's always kind of awkward You're like, you know, I'm like this. I'm a I'm a fan of people I see on youtube So what do I say to them when I see them? I'll go and hey, I love your youtube stuff I mean and people say the same thing to me like hey, I like you from youtube And I think that's cool, but it's an awkward thing, but I'd be like here's the thing Here to say here's the thing for meeting me and that way it'll be like a novelty gift of some sort So I like that and we felt because my phone just went off again I know someone has an idea. So all right. That's the final thought. Thank you everyone who joined Uh, Jason, I'll see you in the morning because I don't think I'm leaving the hotel If you're bored and want to come to the hotel, I'll have a drink, but I'm not I'm comfortable here So I'm gonna stay here All right later everyone and see all the gherkin people tomorrow and everyone else I'll see I gotta figure out. I'll be doing vlog Thursday Somewhere different next week as well because I have more traveling to do so that'll also fall on a travel day I got a lot of traveling coming up. So but hey, it's always fun interacting with people feel free to say hi later Oh and good night probably because I'm I'm gonna be realistic. I'm not staying up much later


Okay. Welcome back everyone. We will continue with Hebrews chapter 10. Let's, okay, Hebrews chapter 9. Sorry, I was ahead of myself. So Hebrews chapter 9. Let's begin by reading the first five verses and then we will, you know, follow through with the rest. So any volunteers? Yeah. Yes, Christopher. Hebrews chapter 9. Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances or divine service and the earthly sanctuary for a tabernacle was prepared. The first part in which was a land stand, the table and the show bread, which is called the sanctuary. And behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle, which is called the holiest of all, which had the golden sensor and the arc of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna. Aaron's rod that budded and the tablets of the covenant and above it with a cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things, we cannot now speak in detail. Yes. Thank you, Christopher. So as the author continues to make several points about Jesus being greater and his covenant being better, he is now presenting a picture of the tabernacle, the earthly tabernacle and the parts of the tabernacle, not just the parts, but also some of the contents or the furniture of the tabernacle. So he says that under the first covenant, there were certain regulations or he says ordinances of divine service. There were certain regulations for divine worship, certain practices that were done in the earthly tabernacle or the sanctuary. And then he describes the parts. So we are quite aware of the parts. So obviously, outside was the outer court. And then when you come into the inner court, now he's describing in the holy place, the things like lab stand, table, showbread. So these all again have their own significance. His intent is not to describe all over again what these things stand for, but he'll continue to make a point. And we are all aware of the holy place and the significance of these items and the fact that the presence of God dwelt in the holy of holies which carried the Ark of the Covenant, the Ark of the Covenant. Very important, very important portion of the tabernacle. So let's see where he is headed to. Now let's read on verse six through 10. Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priest always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services, but into the second part of the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the peoples since committed in ignorance. The Holy Spirit indicating this, the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are not offered, which cannot make him to perform the service perfect in regard to the consigns. Consent only with foods and drinks, various blessings, the fleshly ordinance imposed until the time of reformation. Yes, so he is now trying to point towards a fulfillment that has taken place. So he uses things, words like until the time of the reformation. And in verse eight, he says, the Holy Spirit indicating this that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. So he's saying that these practices continued, but there was supposed to be a time when something better would come in position. And at that time, these practices would no longer be required because these practices were, but a shadow, these practices were just indicating to the fulfillment which will come in a better manner through Jesus Christ. So that's what he's saying. So he described the portions of the tabernacle. And now let's see what other things he has listed out here. So in verse six, he said that the Hebrew believers were aware that things haven't prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle performing the services. So we know that there were so many responsibilities for the priests where they had to attend the lamps on the lampstand. They had to offer daily sacrifices. They also needed to burn incense in the holy place. Now the incense, the fire, the lampstand, all those things should not, it should not go off. So you can imagine there was work 24 bar seven, they needed to keep all this up. So that was a lot of hard work. And when people came in making sacrifices and taking their gifts, they had to involve in all these regulations of divine worship weekly. They had to make sure that the bread on the table was renewed. And they also used to eat the old loaves so that they were given all these laws. So they kept it. And we would notice that when it came to sacrifices, there were other duties which they needed to perform. So while sacrificing, they would have to collect the blood of the animal that is being sacrificed. They had to offer a portion of that on the altar. They had to have a portion of it which was assigned to them. So there's so much of work. A lot of work which is being done. But here's the point. He's saying, yes, all these duties seem so noble in the service of God, in the service of people. But at the same time, there's something far better that has been accomplished through Jesus. Again, we are not saying that these things were not useful or effective. In the time when they were asked to be done, they served a purpose. But there's something greater that has now come into being. So these priests, their works were quite a bit. So they had to make all these regular sacrifices. And if you go into studying about all the sacrifices they made, there's an entire list. But offerings, they had to present grain offerings, peace, fellowship offering, sin offering, guilt offering. So they had to do all that. Sacrifices, they had to do mourning and evening sacrifices, part of Passover and on the day of atonement or Yom Kippur, as it is called in the Hebrew language, they had to ensure that they fulfilled all these things. But then something has been done in such a manner that these practices no longer have to be performed. So in verse 7, he says, into the second part, the high priest went alone once a year. So that is the Yom Kippur day of atonement that we talk about where once in a year, the high priest, he had to ceremonially cleanse himself and he had to enter the Holy of Holies. And it was a very, the act of reverence on the part of the priest, God's presence, they all feared the presence of God in that Holy of Holies. And so the high priest would really have to be, he had to cleanse himself in such a way that no sin may be found in him and that he would survive going into the Holy of Holies. So this was the manner in which these priests and high priests were serving. And when this high priest went into the Holy of Holies, he would take the blood of sacrifice and sprinkle it on the mercy seat to make atonement for the sins of the congregation. So this is the way the service was going on in the Tabernacle. It was it. He says, the Holy Spirit indicating this that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest while the first Tabernacle was still standing. So when these practices were going on, as Asha pointed out earlier, she said that we now can talk to God, we can approach him easily. And we've also seen passages earlier which said that we can go boldly into the presence of God. Now, if you look at these temple practices, there was the priest who had access till the Holy place and there was the high priest who had access into the Holy of Holies, but not a regular Israelite. So the kind of communion that man wanted with God, you know, that though these practices where we'll see later the word in verse nine, he's using symbolic. It was symbolic or symbolic is simply to say it's like a comparison. It's like a figure of something which is to come. So all these were symbolic in telling people that God wants communion. And for that communion, one needs to be sinless. And for being sinless, a sacrifice needs to be made for the covering of their sin. And that's when we can have that restored relationship with God. So many things were indicative of what God wanted and how he wanted it done. So no wonder earlier in Hebrews 8, we said the sanctuary, the true tabernacle, the place of worship where we want to enter into the presence of God. But here is the earthly tabernacle which is symbolic, comparative and it's showing the people that this is a very holy place, the presence of God and we can't just enter it however we like. There is a way in which one must enter and all these sacrifices have to be made. And so he's telling the Hebrew believers that look, God was just trying to tell us the requirements. But until the time, you know, until the time, remember he kept mentioning the earthly tabernacle was meant to stand or it was effective till the actual sacrifice and the actual high prescaping to the picture and the actual way was made into the presence of God. Once that was done, there was fulfillment of what had been spoken of earlier, the old covenant, the old worship practices. So in verses 9 and 10, that's what he's saying.  What was Christ supposed to bring? A better covenant. And even, you know, the best gifts and the best sacrifices that were used in the earthly tabernacle, they were incapable of perfecting the conscience and renewing the inner person of the worshipper. And so these practices continued. How long? They just continued day after day, day after day. Imagine if the sacrifices were good enough to cleanse them completely. Why would there be a need to repeat it the next day? But for years on end, they are doing these things because it was not capable to perfect the worshipper. But here we have, remember we asked, what is so good about the new covenant? Okay, what is so good about the better promises? Here it is. The worshipper is cleansed. Perfection can come in through the work that Jesus has done on the cross for us.  In fact, another term that can be used here is fleshly ordinances. Because in verse 10, he says they are concerned with what? Food, drinks, washing. And then he adds on fleshly ordinances. There's no requirement for these things. Let's move on versus 11 and 12, please. Someone can read it. 11 and 12, he reads, So Christ has become the high priest over all good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands. And it's not part of this created world with his blood, not the blood of goats and calves. He entered the most holy place once for all time and secured redemption forever. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Sayy. Just before we go to the next two verses, there is a question, I think. Kennedy, he says, What was the Holy Spirit indicating by not allowing anyone except the high priest to enter the most holy place and that on one day in a year during Yom Kippur. So, yeah, Kennedy, the Holy Spirit was just indicating that there is a method or a right way of entering into the presence of God. Not anyone could enter it. You had to be made eligible and that is why you had the high priest. First of all, they had to come from a certain line and then they would go through the whole cleansing rituals. That's when the priest could enter and then of course the high priest to enter the holiest, holy of holies, they also required that cleansing and they were only allowed to go in once in a year.  Yes, we want to have communion with him but we must remember that he is not like us and to approach. There are other passages that tell us he dwells in unapproachable light. So in order for us to approach this holy God, we have to also put on that holiness and thank God for Jesus. Because of him, we have now been made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. So yes, man wants to approach God but what the Tabernacle was telling us is we can't do it in our own way. Now, even today we notice people are trying in their own way through works, through spiritual practices and there are so many philosophies that exist but we very clearly know what the Bible teaches us. No man comes to the Father except through me is what Jesus is saying. So that cleansing from our sins, that making us holy, making us righteous to stand in the presence of God, it's only possible if we accept the work of Jesus and that is what the Holy Spirit is indicating. And he was just telling of the time when Jesus would come into the picture, all these things would be done and thereby the practices of the earthly Tabernacle will be redundant. From that point on, we have to grab the new thing which is our faith in Jesus instead of going back to the earthly regulations of worship. So pick the kind of worship that Jesus spoke of. The Father is looking for worshipers who worship him in spirit and in truth. So that is the real worship now. It no longer is the temple worship where we have to go and do all these things. So that's the point. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, thank you. All right, so moving on versus 11 and 12, let's see what is being said here. Yes, Christ came as high priest of the good things to come and with the greater and more perfect Tabernacle not made with hands, that is not of this creation. So that we have already understood. And verse 12, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood, he entered the most holy place once for all having obtained eternal redemption. So what we are seeing here is that there's a comparison. So the high priest was given this ordinance to enter with the blood of bulls and goats. Why enter with the blood? Because the blood, if you recall, even during Passover, right, put the blood on the doorposts, put the blood. So the blood is indicative of the fact that these people belong to the God of Israel. This blood is indicative of the fact that they are protected. This blood is indicative of many things that that God is doing for them. So the blood of bulls and goats was required as the high priest entered into the presence of God. Because one more thing that this blood was saying is, this blood was saying that there is a cleansing available for the high priest as well as his people and that cleansing through the blood makes them eligible to have this communion with God or receive God's blessings. So blood was very, very important. But here we notice that our high priest, the Lord Jesus, if we if we just look at the tabernacle practice of entering into the holiest of holies with the with the blood, Jesus, a high priest, okay, he is entering, he has blood with him, you know, which again indicates that the people belong to him, there is cleansing and all of that.  It no longer is the blood of bulls and goats, but scriptures tell us his own blood, he entered the most holy place. So just think about this, he is the high priest, he is the sacrifice, it is his own blood, okay. And this is the way in which Jesus has done his service. And we would say Jesus has done his service, not in the earthly tabernacle, but we're talking about the heavenly tabernacle, okay. So with his own blood, he has entered the most holy place. And it says once for all, remember we talked about the daily sacrifices and once a year sacrifices, but there's no longer a requirement for him to keep doing this daily. The way he has perfected his sacrifice and those who approach God is once for all, once for all, okay. And what is it that his blood indicates the blood of Jesus apart from the protection, the cleansing and all of that that it brings here in Hebrews 12, we are told eternal redemption. So the blood of Jesus is indicative of what? Eternal redemption. The fact that we said we belong, right? We belong to God. How do we belong to God? How much do we belong to God? We belong to God forever. He has purchased us. He has brought us back from the clutches of the enemy. He has delivered us from the bondage of sin. He has positioned us in Christ Jesus. He has blessed us with every spiritual blessing. He has given us inheritance. He has given us, you know, talk about giving us a destiny, giving us authority, everything that is part of our redemption and also the fact that this redemption is something that is eternal, eternal redemption. So Jesus has done a great work and this is a work which is done in a much superior sanctuary. He has entered into heaven with his own blood which speaks of our eternal redemption and no human can do this for us and no human hands can ever make this possible for us. And as we look at the work that Jesus has done for us, we also recognize, you know, we don't know how many of those high priests were really willing to practice these duties in the temple. Hopefully all of them were and they were happy about it. But what if, you know, some of them thought, this is a lot of work, this is too difficult, why am I doing this, you know? But think about Jesus, the kind of high priests that he is and the kind of sacrifice that he has made for us, it's so, so much more superior because one thing we know, he was obedient to the Father, right? And so his sacrifice, it was a voluntary sacrifice. It came from his heart when he did all these things for us. It was motivated by love. So that way, when something is motivated by love, even though it is hard work, it doesn't really feel like hard work. And that's the kind of heart that Jesus carried towards us. He was voluntary, motivated by love. And of course, you know, we know that this is superior because it was also a perfect sacrifice. The blood of goats and calves had to be brought in again and again and again. But perfection is there in the blood of Jesus because once he did this, how often? Only once and he got us eternal redemption. So the blood that was being offered so far was just a shadow of what Jesus was supposed to do for us. And earlier I have pointed out that the blood which was offered, it only covered sins but the blood of Jesus, the blood of the new covenant, it cleanses our sins. So let me pause here for a bit. If somebody wants to add anything about the blood of Jesus, you can add the redemptive work of Jesus and then we will move forward. I just wanted to add to what you said. Yes. That the scripture does testify that the life of 15 is in the blood.  The reason why his blood, you know, qualified to be the ultimate sacrifice, basically to redeem us from sin, was because throughout his time on earth, even though he was born of a virgin woman, he also had to pass the test of overcoming sin in his lifetime. So he did not just qualify just because he was a son of God. He actually walked upon this earth, going through all the various temptations, like we're seeing in scripture already, as we went through and stood against all that and stood with the will of God till death. And by that it was, it was the only blood, you know, that could be offered for humanity, forever, for redemption as a man because Jesus Christ had to die as a man. He didn't die as God. He died as a man, though he was still God, like we've learned. So the blood of Jesus stands as the ultimate, ultimate way for anyone to be cleansed of their sin. There's no other amount of blood from animals, no amount of blood.  So the only blood is Jesus, the blood of Jesus that stands for eternity, for the cleansing of man's sin. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Say thank you for shedding more light on the blood of Jesus and the fact that you know, he was born of a virgin.  So a few more things about the blood of Jesus continue in the verses 13 onwards. So let's go ahead and read that. I would like to request someone to please read from verse 13 to verse 15. Are you concerned? Yes. For the blood of goats and wolves and the sprinkling of defiled persons with ashes of hair for sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ who through the eternal spirit of offered himself without blemish to God purify our conscious from dead works to serve the living God? Therefore, he is the mediator of a new covenant so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance since the death has a cure that brings them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. Yes. Thank you, Asha. So just what we've been saying till now that the earthly offerings and the blood of bulls and goats could not cleanse man's sins, but the blood of Jesus could do that for us. So it brought us sanctification. That's the word which is used there. Sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh and then it says how well it says that the blood of goats and bulls and goats, the animals, it sanctified us to a certain extent. But then how much more the blood of Jesus? So in a comparative way and it also tells us that the blood of Jesus which has been offered for us that it cleanses our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. So that again is a work of the blood of Jesus. So what does that mean? Because the blood has been shed for us when we find cleansing from the blood of Jesus, our conscience can be made more sensitive to God. Our conscience can be made more sensitive to God. But if we neglect the work of the blood, then what can happen to our conscience? Our conscience can become hard against what the Holy Spirit is speaking to us and what the way in which God is leading us. So we will not receive the cleansing for our conscience and we have to be very careful because that is something that can lead us into error. That is something that can lead us into what we discussed earlier. Remember the falling away from God. So there is a danger if we don't receive the cleansing of the blood and the work of the blood for our conscience, then scriptures talk about things like seared conscience, defiled conscience, evil conscience. So these are things that could happen even to a believer. But we must be cautious about this and receive the cleansing of the blood for our conscience. Now verse 15 here tells us that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. We've already talked about it and it says by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. So Jesus has paid the price and he has even done it by his own death. So we can move on to the next set of scriptures here. But before that I'll just go back to some question that I saw from Kennedy. He says until the time of reformation what does that mean? Okay, please give me a moment. Okay, so when we look at that word Kennedy, reformation, which is used here, we go back to the Greek. It simply means a time of rectification or it also states here messianic restoration. Okay, so as I stated earlier, the simple meaning is the earthly practices were valid till the appearance of Jesus and his work on the cross. So basically it's just that. Okay, so I hope that helps. So it doesn't mean any other reformation. It just means Jesus's work on the cross. Okay, all right. I'm just looking if there's any other question. No, there isn't but Charles, you've raised your hand. Please go ahead. Yes, I love. Yes, go ahead please. I wanted to appreciate the fact that Jesus Christ's blood does desanctification as we are looking at the old covenant and the sacrifice of blood of animals of gods and sheep for the process of sanctification it would be very, very costly for us even today if we were to do that same thing of bringing gods and sheep and doves and all that it would be very, very costly. So I want to appreciate the cost that the Lord Jesus paid for us all those years. I am imagining the time I was born up to today. I am almost making 50 years and I am giving out gods and sheep and all that it would be very, very costly. So I was looking at that and I was like, wow, you did it for me. You did it for others. You did it for the whole world, the process of sanctification and all that cleansing on a daily basis that you would come be covered by the blood. So I'm really thankful to the Lord for sending his son Jesus Christ for our redemption and for mostly desanctification on a daily basis and on a progressive nature. Thank you. Amen. Thank you, Charles. Thank you so much. You thought of another dimension regarding the sacrifice of Jesus and the shedding of his blood. For us in a natural sense even an economic sense, I think it's very expensive to think that so much of blood would need to be shed for all of us. But on the other hand, I'm just thinking, adding to what you shared, praise God that it's not costly for us but it has cost the Father everything because he sent his only son for us. So I don't know if we will ever be able to understand the cost to the Father that Jesus's blood was shed for us. Yes, he did it once and that has taken care of our costs but it's not, you know, we've heard this said in many sermons that salvation is free for us but it's not free, you know, as you look at the sacrifice that God has made and it's a very costly sacrifice on his end. So just want to add that thought as well. Anything else? Say, do you want to say something?   You can imagine creation you made, you subjected yourself to creation you made that you knew them even before they existed but you subjected yourself to creation that you made just so that we could be saved. That was the cost he had to go through and in going through that cost, he did not utter a word of curse, he did not fall out of line, he stayed true. Peradventure, if Jesus had, you know, given up on the cross or did something, hit back at them or something like that, there was no way that his blood would have been able to save us and so that's why I would say that as like a sheep he was led to the slaughter, he kept quiet, he was gentle, meek and stayed true through the process so that his blood remained pure for the salvation of many born at that time and unborn. So it was a huge sacrifice that he paid and because of that sacrifice he paid, staying true to the will of God, his blood for eternity still cleanses every man of their sins. Thank you. Yes, that's the greatness of God's love and his sacrifice for us. Divya also adds here, reminded of the bridge of the song Light of the World, I will never know how much it cost to see my sin upon that cross. Okay, yeah, very true Divya, so great is God's love for us. From verses 6 through 22 now, 16 through 22, let's go ahead, let's read them and then we'll see if we can fit in the remaining verses as well. Can I read this? Yes, go on. Verse 16, for where there is a testament, there must also be, there must also of necessity be the death of the testee. For a testament is in force after lender death, since it has no power at all while the testee lives. Therefore, not even the first covenant was dictated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precip to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of cows and goats with water, scarlet wood, and high soap and sprinkled both the book itself and the people, saying this is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you. Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Amen, thank you. So we see the work of purification of the blood and the work of cleansing because without the shedding of blood there is no remission. We saw how Moses has used the blood on all the articles of worship to sanctify them, dedicate them, purify them, cleanse them and that is something similar that has happened to us. We now have been cleansed and not just cleansed but we can be dedicated unto God and that will happen through the blood of Jesus. Now another thing that we saw earlier versus 16 through 18 is the fact that the covenant is usually made with blood. So there was a need for blood was 18 said that not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. So blood was used in making of covenants and in the kind of covenant that God is making with us there was the use of the blood of his own son. He had to shed his own blood and it also talks about a testament. Testament is something like a will of inheritance and we know that legally when somebody knows that they have descendants, they have offspring, they want to leave behind what they have for them or even if they don't they just leave behind a legal letter which talks about how everything that they have will now be passed on to their offspring or anybody that they would like to bless. So that is what a testament is in this context. So testament, he's talking about a testament. He says that that promise that God has of his blessings. We know in the case of a person leaving behind a will about inheritance, it will only get activated after the person is gone. So while they are alive, everything still belongs to them but once they are dead, what happens? The people whom they have enlisted can now stay claim and take it. So he's saying that in the same manner, Jesus now as a man, he died. So he died and thereby what's happening, the testament now is applicable. The covenant now can take effect. So he has done the needful. As a man, it was required for him to die to activate the testament and even that the Lord Jesus has done for us and we can be partakers of the blessings of God. Let's go ahead and read. Oh yeah, we already read Till verse 18. Till where did we read? 22. Okay, 22. All right. So verse 18 to 22, we see the dedication of the covenant through the blood and yeah, we said that even Moses did cleansing through the blood. So that we've already understood. So coming now to the rest of the passage here 23 to 28, but we just have two minutes left. So I don't think we'll do justice. Let's hold it off and we will read it in the next class. As far as the progress of our content is concerned, my intention is I think we should be able to complete at least three books in the month of March. It'll be sort of quick. So we won't do like very, very deep discussion for the other books because Hebrews is a little more technical. It has references of the Old Testament scriptures and which is why we need to take time to understand them. So it takes longer to cover Hebrews. But once we're through with this, the other books, we can be a little faster. So hopefully three books this month and the rest we should be able to complete in the next month. Okay, so and assignments also will be up hopefully by next week, the first assignment and you can begin working on it. So let's close for today. Could somebody lead us in prayer, please? Let's pray. Dear Heaven Father, we thank you so much for the time we are spending on your feet listening from you when you're speaking to us through your word. Lord, we pray that you will continue to explain to us because you, the Holy Spirit that you sent is the greatest teacher. Lord, we pray that the Holy Spirit will teach us more and we will be able to apply these so that we'll be able to have a life that prezes you when Jesus' name will pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Charles. Thank you, everyone. God bless you. Have a great weekend. We will meet up again next week. Thank you.


Putin, after the Prague and Brussels agreements anti-terrorist measures in Karabakh, were inevitable. Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke about the local anti-terrorist measures held by Azerbaijan in Karabakh on September 19. Russian President Vladimir Putin said at the plenary session of the Valde International Discussion Club. According to him, what happened after the agreement reached in Prague and Brussels was inevitable. That's why Mr. Michel and his colleagues should have thought about this when they persuaded Armenian Prime Minister Pashinyan to take such a step. They should have thought about the fate of Karabakh Armenians. At least they should have mentioned something. What awaits Armenians of Karabakh in this situation? In the integration of Karabakh into the state of Azerbaijan, how their security and their rights will be ensured, but there is nothing there. The statement states that Karabakh is an integral part of Azerbaijan. That's it. What should we do? If Armenia itself made such a decision, what did we do? We used what we had in the legal sense to ensure the humanitarian situation. As you know, our people died there. By the way, when defending Karabakh Armenians, our peacekeepers, we provided them with humanitarian and medical aid. We got them out. Let our European colleagues at least send humanitarian aid to the unfortunate people. I think they will. However, it is necessary to think about their fate in the long term. We support Armenians leaving Karabakh. Armenia continues to be our ally. Putin said.


Okay, I'm gonna ask Martin Rama to join me over here. Martin, thanks very much. Martin has been running around like a madman for the past several weeks, and trying to contact him over the past few days has been impossible, because he's been in meetings like this, but usually ones that don't seem to end until about 11 o'clock at night. So, Martin, I think I'm just moving on now because you said that you actually wanted to kind of move on from what Gary was talking about. It's not just the number of jobs, right? Yes. And on that, let me state my full agreement with what Gary said. If we take the definition of international conference of labor statisticians that ILO uses of employment, that is a broad definition, and it includes what a lot of people do in developing countries, which is they are farmers, they are self-employed. About half of the people at work in the world are not wage employees. But mentally, we always drift towards thinking around wage employment as our organizing concept. And that's how we end up emphasizing the number of jobs. And in fact, even here we had questions which were about more employment, for instance. And it's true that lack of jobs is important in many places, but in many developing countries, people work. Even if you look at the events in the Arab world and how they started, the young man who sacrificed his life in protest, the narrative, the usual narrative we hear is about an unemployed young man. The true narrative is about a street vendor protesting about abuse by local authorities. The way we think about having voice, again, goes into a bargaining or a negotiation between workers and employers. And perhaps the way Gary phrased the efforts of the Self-Employed Women's Association about peace rates are one way of telling that story.  The main constraint to their business is often whether they can operate and how they can operate. Concepts like jobless growth. In fact, when you look at what happens with employment, basically it grows like the labor force. And employment rates do not explode, do not disappear, so you take a 10-year period, and the creation of employment is more or less the number of people who enter the labor force. And so the question is not so much the number of jobs, is what do people do? What kind of work they do? And also what kind of jobs they are in other sense, right, how protected they are, how well people are treated. Yes. And in fact, when we work on this report and there is information about it outside in different places and there is a website that can be fully downloaded, we work very much on a communications mindset to present the ideas. And so you will find a lot of tweets. And our main tweet is jobs dry development. When we, the more we looked at the problems of employment in developing countries, the more we found that some jobs have a strong impact on development and some others are going nowhere, are forms of survivorship. And let me just start by saying that we, again, we tend to think about good jobs from a perspective that thinks of wage employment and what does the job imply for me? And so what is my salary, what are my benefits, am I protected, can do I have voice? And all that is fine. But jobs first are more than just that. There are non-monetary dimensions which are extremely important. Jobs provide networks to rural migrants when they arrive to the cities. They provide learning opportunities for people who can acquire new skills when they work for a foreign-owned company and then move on to different places. They provide a sense of opportunity and then shape the way people interact with each other. So in fact, jobs are the driver of some of the things we really care about in development. Look at previous well-development reports which have been influential. The gender well-development report, what is it about? In the end, it's about jobs empowering women. One of the most important ways in which the role of women in the household and in society changes is through access to paid work. You look at the one, let me just say two more examples. One is geography, urbanization, jobs in cities are jobs that make everybody else more productive. We all talk about urban economics and what the importance of urbanization and why China succeeded in urbanizing and India is not succeeded as well. And you look at a lot of what is done in that area and it's all about jobs in cities, not just cities, it's jobs in cities. Or you look about conflict. The reason, one of the most important messages of the conflict well-development report where it's needed is jobs and jobs that create a sense of opportunity, that create engagement trust that provide alternatives to conflict. Reintegrate people basically. Reintegrate people. So some jobs are very good for development, even if they do not meet some of the standards we would love. And we use the example of the garment industry in Bangladesh by some criteria. Those jobs are terrible jobs, let's be honest. In other ways, they have changed the role of women in Bangladesh. Look at Vietnam, I used to work many years in Vietnam. Vietnam is probably the best story in poverty reduction we know. The fastest poverty reduction, it all happens through making smallholder farmer agriculture more productive.  So let's not focus on it now. But I'm, you know, because the other thing that you mentioned, and I think we tend to forget about the importance of civil society, but the role of jobs actually in engaging people in civil society so that they have a stake. Yes. But jobs, you know, it's not one size fits all, so it changes from country to country, right? Yeah, and again, let me then pick up on another point of the introduction of the panel, John Page said it's important that to see if we get out of conventional wisdom, and that's the way also we try to approach this report. And what we found is that there is no one size fits all. There is no, the conventional wisdom on jobs may be a bit too narrow. And we found that the nature of the jobs challenge is varies a lot across countries. So it's not just that you need more jobs or more good jobs of these or that sort. Depends on the level of development of the country, depends on the resource and the geography of the country, depends on the institutions of the country, depends on the demography. So we came up with not one size fits all, but with eight size fits all. For instance, we have a typology that goes from agrarian countries in terms of development to urbanizing countries, to formalizing countries, and the challenges are very different. We have countries that are resource rich and that poses specific challenges. Small island nations were also geography matters a lot. We have countries with high youth unemployment, which is, I'm not talking about unemployment, it's high youth unemployment is a special category and part of what happened in the Arab world can also be framed in that way. And you have ageing societies. So when you combine a single country, like say Mozambique can be agrarian and resource rich, but when you take into account what the challenges are, where the constraints are, you also realize that there are some jobs that will really take the country to the next level. And focusing, having priorities on those type of jobs, jobs that make smallholder farming productive in the case of agrarian countries, jobs that create opportunity in countries with high youth unemployment, jobs that distribute the wealth in a way that does not undermine employment opportunities in resource rich countries. You get an agenda that also for aid agencies and for all partners is very different depending on the context. Now I want to get also into the how you make it happen and this concept of a three-layered approach to policy. Yeah, so the implications taking that logic one step forward, we come up with the idea that there are three things that one can do for jobs. But before I go to the three, let me make one point very clear. When we start from thinking about wage employment, labor market, labor market segmentation, we end up thinking that the problem is in how the labor market operates. And we end up in very heated debates about flexibility, rigidity. When you look at it more closely, the main constraints for the creation of the jobs with the high development payoffs are elsewhere. They are in land issues. They are in the problems of urbanization. They are in problems of governance and the economics of privilege. So we tend to end up in a very heated and politicized debate which is not so central.  One is some fundamentals. There are some fundamentals that are needed whatever the jobs challenge is. These include micro-economics stability. You cannot be in a situation of a big crisis. You need an enabling business environment. You need some basic levels of human capital, although it doesn't mean that it's always a prerequisite, but there's a minimum level that is needed. And you need the rule of law. And by the rule of law, we don't want to mean just property rights. We also mean fundamental rights at work. We want to be very clear that informal sector jobs can be good for development, but there are some things that are no-no, and that's where the distinction should be. So first layer is fundamental. Second layer is labor policies. And as I said, we do not see a situation where one has to go for either a model, even excellent models, flex security is not necessarily the model everywhere. And so it's just knowing where is the range where you can operate. A range where basic rights are not neglected, but the creation of jobs connected to the world, jobs in cities is not undermined by the interventions. And the most important is the priorities. Once you know you're operating in an agrarian country, you're operating in a resource rich country in an aging society, is to know what it will take to get those jobs that make the transformation, to get women into paying jobs, to get cities that are functional, to get young people out of idealist. And that's where perhaps the biggest payoffs could be. Okay, stay there. Okay. I'm going to again take some questions from the audience. And Sorin, who was there before, if you put, I'm going to make sure I recognize you if you still want to talk to, and people who've asked questions before I'm going to put lower on the list. But please, if you want to ask a question or make a comment to Martin Ramam, please push your button. Come on, I've only got the panel asking questions here. It's not rocket science. Let's go. Okay, John, you get to start. Okay, it's actually a question for Gary and Martin. I heard Gary say two things when he began. One was we need to think about ways to get the poor out of the jobs they're in. And the other one is we need to raise the incomes of the poor in the jobs they're in. And most of the conversation we had then subsequently was raising the incomes of the poor in the jobs in which they find themselves. Martin, your focus seems to be a bit more on the first part of that story, which is let's get the poor out of the jobs they're in. Is there a trade-off here? Is there a contradiction here, especially when you think that aid budgets are limited? Okay, well, first of all, it's going to be directed at Martin and Gary later on because that's the way we're playing it, sorry. But Martin. We, one of the things we tried to do is to bring the, in this report, is to bring the best expertise we could in each of the areas on jobs. So we had Ravi Kambura as our advisor and jobs and poverty. And so that's a colleague of Gary. We had John Halty-Wonger on job creation and distraction and George Akerloff on the jobs and social cohesion. And I want to mention this because the logic of job creation and distraction is very central to the growth part. And so we see a combination of two things that are important. One is getting better at what you do in your job. That was a story, for instance, of smallholder farming. But a lot of the growth story is a story of people moving to different jobs. And urbanization is about people moving out of agriculture and the transition to wage employment is another important step. So I will not say it's one or the other, but we see the process of job creation and distraction as critically important. And that brings me to the story of the work in poor, which I think Gary has so rightly emphasized it, which is that the conventional wisdom these days seems to be that everybody who is there is there out of survivorship. There was a time when there was a lot of enthusiasm. You read Fernando de Soto and everybody was a potential entrepreneur and it was just the constraints that were on the way that were preventing people from becoming entrepreneurs. Now we seem to be in the opposite end where we think, well, these people will love to have a solid job. They are there just because they cannot do anything else. And what we have found is that the story is a bit more mixed, that everywhere among those self-employed who have this micro-business, there is a group that has some potential. And if just that group managed to go from being a self-employed to hiring one person, that would make a phenomenal transformation. So we reviewed quite a lot of experiments that have been conducted on, is it micro-credit? Is it management training? What is that works? Okay, no more questions from the audience, please. But Dr. Lars Engsberg-Pettersen, who is joining us somewhere here on the front row. Yeah, Lars? Thank you very much. If this goes through, yes. You said in the beginning that when you started up the work, you were not sure that jobs were very central to the development issue, but you ended up saying that they are. To me, the overall objective of all our work is poverty reduction. Some of the fundamentals are a lack of, or inequalities at national level and some courses at the international level, rising food prices and so on. There are many courses. So where do you fit in, jobs in that picture? If we need economic transition, not just growth, but transition, we need to address some of the courses at the international, at the national level. Why is it so important to look at jobs? Okay, and can you give Martin a clock, too, just to keep him- Okay, sorry. Starting at 60, please, Joe. Okay. I think there is an intuitive understanding of the importance of jobs, but the conceptual tools we use tend to neglect. We talk about proper growth and we talk about the sectoral composition of growth as affecting poverty, but we tend to think from a growth perspective in investment and accumulation. We tend to think about the binding constraints to investment. What we say is if we flip the problem over, if we think not about the allocation of capital for growth, but the allocation of people to different jobs. When you see it through jobs, you see things that you do not see when you look at investment or capital. You do not see when you look at investment or capital or sectors where it's men or women, where it's young people or not. So, and we have a texture of data, micro data, that helps us much more if we start from the employment side and how development will change the composition of employment than if we start by just saying the return to capital and do they get finance for the investments. Thank you. Tony Addison. Thank you, Hillary. The question is simple. Many children are in jobs when they should be in school. So what do we do about it? Remember the seat. You can use this clock, Martin. Okay. It's a very important one. Again, we try to really pay attention to the aspect of rights and we feel very grateful that we had the support of the Nordic Trust Fund for Human Rights in preparing this report. And we started from a very clear premise that we should refine that definition of jobs, of employment that we saw on the screen by being very clear that some things are not, cannot be considered jobs. And that's where all the very damaging forms of child labor should fall in. Now, one should differentiate child work from child labor. And a lot of children work in developing countries in ways that are still consistent with them going to school, helping their families and so on. So one should differentiate the things that through poverty reduction will help improve the condition of children and the areas in which really specific policies are needed. And when I say labor policies in the three layer, when I say there has to be policies that prevent the violation of rights, that's clearly what it should fall. Thank you, Martin. Sam, Jones. Yeah, I'm kind of... Clock, please. I'm curious about the balance between what we might call micro-economic interventions, so the micro-credit type of thing, and macro-economic interventions. So you mentioned your first layer is about macro-economic stability, providing enabling environment. That sounds really what we've heard before. So is there a role for proactive macro-economic or fiscal policy to promote growth, much of my jobs, sorry. I would like to distinguish two things. One is aggregate versus micro. The other is short-term versus long-term. We didn't go in our work into the short-term thing, like what is the mix of monetary and fiscal policy that is more appropriate. But we went quite a lot on this distinction between the targeted programs and the aggregate programs. For each of the eight cases in this typology of jobs challenges, we tried to find countries that had done well. So do we have success stories? And what is interesting first, we did. We did find. What is interesting is that none of them did things that were related to labor policies. In general, that's not where the action was. So again, if I take one by one, I know that we should not discuss Vietnam, but a successful agrarian country was Vietnam and it was land reform and it was reforming the commercialization of agricultural products. You take a country, a resource rich country that was successful, that's Chile. And Chile managed to create a stabilization fund that created incentives for diversification of its exports. You take a successful country with high use and employment. We found that Slovenia is a very good model and that was through competition in product markets through EU integration. You take a country that was successful in conflict affected situation that was run and there was demobilization with the stimulus on the coffee side. So the policies that can do the trick tend to be first, not necessarily labor policies, even if we're talking jobs. And they have an element of aggregation. It's not just micro programs. I think there are big things that count. Sorry. All right, we have two more and they've got to be very quick. And one is Adam Split. Yes, thank you. I pushed the green one. Yeah, I'm talking. Thank you very much. I have a question concerning the role of the state and promoting jobs. What do you have any findings concerning a general enabling business environment vis-à-vis specific sectors, supporting specific sectors? Yeah. One point that is clear is that jobs are mainly created by the private sector. Roughly nine out of 10 jobs in the world are created by the private sector. So if we are talking about employment and stimulating the creation of employment and the right kind of jobs is what can drive the private sector to do that and ways that the incentives are misaligned and the private sector may not be creating those jobs. This is not to say that public sector jobs are not important. Teachers, agricultural extension workers, urban planners, without them it doesn't work. But in general, the countries that went in the direction of using public employment as a tool did not go too far. In a way, one can say the problem of the Arab world in many cases has to do with the role that the public sector jobs had and how queuing for those jobs distorted anything from educational supply to job search behaviors. But there are circumstances again in which public jobs are very important. Again, I mentioned Rwanda demobilization programs. Some programs targeted to use, use at risk. Some public works programs for poverty alleviation. So there is a role. It's just that is not the silver bullet for the big story of job creation. Okay, I have to come in here. So is there a silver bullet? Thank you. Stefan Isaacson, and I'm afraid you're the last one. Thank you. My own? Yeah, thank you. Yes, a very brief question because I'm not in the same position as Ib, but I have sort of the responsibility of looking into where do we put our money? I mean, from an ODA perspective, because what you're talking about here now, Martin, is a lot about policy changes that actually needs to be derived from the countries themselves for labor organization, et cetera, et cetera. But from an ODA perspective, where do we put our money to invest it wisely to get that in for a box? Thanks. We try to derive some of the implications of these analysis for aid and for the international community. And we thought about ourselves at the World Bank. So what will we do differently if we think that jobs are more central than we assumed before? And there are several things. This first one element is data. One should not underestimate the challenges we face on the data front. This report has a huge statistical annex, all the data are available online. We processed 800 household surveys and sensors just to go to the micro data. We had data for the equivalent of 8% of mankind, roughly, individual data to try to get to the numbers, how many people work in cities and not in cities, how many people are self-employed or not. You take official statistics and you get a completely distorted picture because typically they are reported by ministries of labor. So first thing, there is a data agenda and it's not one of measuring unemployment. It's measuring the working poor, knowing who they are. But there are several other layers. One is thinking strategically. I would believe that at the level of country assistance strategies, thinking jobs at that level is very important. Thinking analytically also. What is preventing job creation and distraction in a way that is conducive to growth? What is preventing poor people from moving, becoming more productive or moving to other jobs? Understanding more the micro evidence to be said. And then finally, being selective, depending on the nature of the country you work with. Thank you, Martin. Thank you very much.


He was pretty easy. He didn't talk that much. He was pretty serious about what he was doing. He was nervous. He peed on the set. He had a real weak bladder on him. But he did hit his mark and was there on time. Didn't complain that much. And this scene went pretty quickly. The dog is a female. It's supposed to be a male. But there were different dogs.  That was a different one I think. But in any case and the blood was not real blood. I don't think people would be disappointed. Spoiler alert. Yeah. But yeah, Bateman was great. He was right in his elements. It's so funny to see him unflustered but increasingly frustrated. How cool is that sequence? Yeah, that was highly choreographed. Yeah, it took us some time. It was like learning a dance. Oh for sure. Even though I'm really good at dance, you know, the art of dance. Show us one move right now. Oh, I don't know how I feel about it. Somebody get her a towel, y'all. Somebody get her a towel. For what? The tears? Maybe. It was great. Yeah. It was choreographed by an awesome team of stunt guys and stuff like that and that John and Jonathan putting it together like two days to do. Yeah. And it was super precise, you know, all the sort of moving parts.   It was fun.  And we had the effects team that did Birdman do our transitions. There were six pieces cut into one long shot. It wasn't an actual wonder.  It wasn't actually in sequence because there were certain actors that needed to be on a plate. We won't name names. Sharon Horgan. So it made it especially difficult to kind of tie the two shots together without it looking like they took place over different days.