Hi everyone. Hi everyone. Hi John. Hi Timmy. Hi John. Hi Alex. Just going to see if Barla or Ed are joining us. Hello everybody. John are you hosting today or who's hosting? Hello yeah. Yeah Manu usually in our meetings he's really good at it. So yeah I picked up moderating our community meetings and we've picked up with some primer work where I send out the invites for the call and I also reached out to Alex to have today's call. So we're welcoming Alex Collins from Argo, the Argo project that has I think most recently joined the CNCF and we are the serverless workflow group, a subgroup of the serverless working group that has set out to do standardization work for serverless in and a couple of other tasks that have come out of an initial serverless serverless white pipe work that this working group has done. So are we waiting for anyone you have invited Alex or should we start? No I was hoping that Barla would join and he has just joined today so that's great. Yes I'm already in Alex and I'm Barla from Argo team. Yeah so just to kind of introduce myself and Barla, Barla is a kind of long standing engineer on Argo workflows project. I think Barla has been working, maybe he'll introduce himself in a second for about a year. I'm the principal engineer. I previously worked on Argo CD but now I've been working on Argo workflows since December. I typically index more on community aspects and I also index on more strongly on kind of internal delivery into it. So into it we really won Argo workflows internally for a number of different reasons. So we run it as part of our machine learning platform, we run it as part of our data processing platform. We also run it for certain amount of CI and we run it for doing some performance testing as well as basically a platform for executors and we also use its part of our automation within our developer platform as well. And about that's about half the work that we do and about half the work is related to the open source community and we leverage and utilize the open source community to help drive the direction of Argo workflows. So when it was first originally developed I think about three years ago Argo workflows is only really intended as a kind of very generic cloud native i kubernetes workflow system. Obviously things develop over time and you realize you sit within a wider context of there and often you're often sorted suited to particular workflows and Argo workflows is particularly popular amongst the machine learning community so we have a lot of users from from different companies that use it particularly for that. And we also have some kind of interesting CI use cases and other kind of just general use cases. So we're particularly interested in scaling to very large workloads. So typically a workload with you know several thousand steps is pretty common in terms of it. You know running on you know different platforms I had a very interesting conversation with some guys from Cray in back in November about what they were doing and we know we used places like CERN and so forth as well for their for their platforms. So that's just a bit of introduction. Have you guys used or played around with Argo workflows in any kind of depth or breadth do you think we have looked at Argo. I have no specifically we created the kind of markup comparison documentation. I've actually ran Hello World locally on my machine as well. This is the whom you're speaking by the way. So yeah there is some in you know level. I cannot say I'm an expert in Argo by any means. But yes yes I have played with it. So I have one do you guys like a little demo in that case. Would that be a good idea to do. I'm going to see if I can get it up and running on my machine. Okay yeah I have to admit personally I have I only know Argo from the video so I haven't get it up and running on my system. I'm mostly organizing the meetings and a little bit of the standards discussion so I'm not that much into engineering or operating. But I have to say I'm pretty impressed and how this reach out came about was actually the comment from Alois of the sick delivery who has recently reviewed our work on workflows and has recommended that we reach out to more projects in the CNCF ecosystem and this is how we got to Argo. Okay good. Let me show my screen. I usually make a mistake when I do this. Do you see the user interface. Yes. Okay so this is the this is the user this is the user interface there are basically three ways to no correction four way five ways to escalate you quickly. Two common ways that people interact in three other ways you can interact with Argo workflows. And so the common way of course is one common ways to the user interface. And this is the user interface as of version 2.8. And it's very it's relatively straightforward user interface. And once you've logged in you can submit a workflow and workflows are defined as Kubernetes YAML. And you can see this is a standard YAML and I'm given a given a name here and an entry point into a specification the specification defines the workflow and the workflow typically can most of workflows reduced to directed acyclic graph that there's very, you know the most basic workflows directly acyclic graph which executes pods as as each node basically. And this one has a has a secret that usually made up a sequence of templates that are connected together by dependencies. So in this example, I've got a container here, which runs an image called Argo say, which is prints the word hello Argo to the console. And that's that's what I submit that. And then what what we do is we figure out what the graph is for your workflow we determine the first steps to execute me execute those those steps and when they when they complete them then your work first complete. This really shows could be what I'm going to show you a more advanced example by uploading one called coin flip recursive. So this is a more complicated example of a workflow. This basically simulates flipping a coin. And depending what the outcome of the conflict the conflict is basically a random number here you can see this line here. If it's heads, it's if a random number is zero and it's heads otherwise it's tails prints that result and basically flips that coin repeatedly until it comes to a conclusion. So it's just submit that workflow and you can see that this then shows you a graph of those steps of the workflow flipping the coins initially steps is a is execution of a pod. And you can see these ones that on the right hand side of the grave in and skipped because they didn't get to the right outcome of waiting to wait to flip heads and then finally we get to heads and this this work flows and complete. So I can use the user interface to do that. Some other features of the user interface of things like you know templates if I want reusable templates I can. I can use those workflows across workflow which is a workflow executes on a schedule so once every minute once every hour once a day. And then finally the big feature here is a thing called the workflow archive. So when and to keep the number of workflows in your in your running set which costs money. You can archive them to a database for kind of doing data analytics afterwards. Not sure there's none in here not normally they get automatically archived I guess I probably got it figured off and then obviously we've got some searching. So that's that we also have a lot of that. In a CLI tool called Argo and you can kind of brew install Argo to get it running and that has just it's very standard kind of Kubernetes style ago commands. And some kind of really key commands of this for example and submit to submit a new workflow or list to list workflows. And it'll show me a list of my workflows there and then I can get the workflow by using Argo get and then I can say give me the app is YAML and it'll show me the YAML of the workflow there as well. Now, those of you familiar with cloud native will will probably recognize the kind of standard format of Kubernetes manifest you've got some metadata, such as the name and namespace. You've got some kind of specification block which defines all the work flow is and then finally for status that block which explains the current status of the workflow and what it's been what how it's been executing there as well. And actually these can be executed using the cube, cube CTL commands this is the third way that you can get access to your data so you don't actually need to install an Argo binary if you've already got the cube CTL binary and access the cluster you can just use that to get it. I did say five ways and now I'm trying to structure my brain of what the father five ways are so that this is where the fourth place programmatic access. So I'll go workflows is intended to be embedded in one of the use cases is embedded in other platforms for executing their workflows so coupon pipeline embeds Argo workflows. So the fifth way includes some programmatic API is in terms of a Python API contributed by the by the open source community and also a Java API that we've done for our internal users who are on using Java as well. The fifth way. I guess the fifth place probably just using the API itself so we have an open API you can use. And then there is just a standard swagger JSON document that explains how to use that and it's actually not too dissimilar to the community. I'm going to pause there just in case people want to ask any questions about any of the other things that I've gone over there. And I'm just going to give you a bit of an example of how to find out more information about Argo workflows and what you want to do if you want to ask any questions about it. Thank you very much. Yes, actually I do have plenty of questions in my head I wonder which are the most for this meeting in this purpose. Pressing so you mentioned Kubeflow pipelines, and I heard about that before I'm also aware of the Kubeflow DSL. How does the Python DSL we've relate to the Kubeflow DSL is that the more or less the same code base or So I mean they use Argo workflows as the component within their software to execute the workflows and actually they have their own Python language that they transform into YAML. And we also have a separate independent SDK that people use. As I mentioned, we're very popular in the machine learning community and a lot of people in machine learning community like to use Python so they kind of naturally evolve as a result. And I also learned that Argo has a larger ecosystem you have Argo events that uses the gateways and sensors also speaks cloud events. And what it seems that all the the extra tooling Argo CD, especially where you have experiments workloads and so on it eventually does it boil down to workflow and the workflow controller of resources, or is are these separate projects. So they're, they're, I mean, they're separate separate projects and Argo CD is a bit off to one side and it's, it's, it's job is basically to get the content of your git repository into your cluster. And it kind of read us that by doing a series of kubectl play commands under the obviously it's more complicated than that when you actually dig into the details. And that Argo events is is quite closely related to Argo workflows because Argo workflows only provides the execution component of workflows, and some very basic crunched entries are quite recent. But if you want to do things like trigger a workflow from a GitHub events, or, you know, you know, a drop into an S through buckets, then Argo workflows doesn't have any kind of native support for that and Argo events is a very, is, you know, kind of a sister solution to use on site. I'm going to pause. I know that Ed and McClelley. Hey, this is a leaf also from input and because also on she's our product manager. Yeah, just to expand on what Alex was saying is saying like workflows and events are particularly closely tied and then like Argo CD and rollouts are also kind of closely tied. You know, obviously Argo CD is for like deploying and managing applications, whereas workflows and events, it's more about triggering asynchronous processing or, you know, batch jobs on Kubernetes, however they are related in the sense that a lot of people will create pipelines which basically consists of events triggering workflows that kind of thing with Argo CD, for example. So one way to view it is that Argo CD handles kind of the management of your typical services based computing model, you have the services running, listening for requests, doing things. Whereas workflows is your more like your batch style of processing model and events is your kind of event driven or event based processing model. In many complex applications, you'll actually use all three forms of processing. You'll have like a web server or something listening to things. But you also have, you know, asynchronous processing or you will queue things for data processing and, you know, things triggering off of the end. So the idea of the overall idea of the Argo project is that we, you know, building a toolkit that can basically encompass all of these modes of computing so that we can put it all together. So that makes sense. Yes, perfectly. So Argo CD is more of the integrated solution where you would automatically allow callbacks from GitHub to trigger your pipelines for continuous integration. And the workflows and events together can achieve a similar thing but is more of the really event driven processing model as you explained. So events and workflows, they overlap with CD only in the sense that, I mean, CD, we purposely, you could use workflow for CI as well, of course, like so, like events, you could just advance the trigger off of GitHub, you know, events, and do CI type of stuff. So CD part mainly just deploys things into the cluster where you could use something like events and workflows or CD is to do what we call auto sync. You know, that is when something changes in a GitHub repo, you automatically like sync it, although Argo CD provides a separate mechanism for that. CD also has a very kind of full feature UI in a specific to deployment. So like when you deploy something you could see what's running so you get health status. You can diff what's running in the cluster. So, so basically it's, it's kind of like serve some of the same purposes as the Kubernetes dashboard except the Argo CD dashboard is tailored much more to, you know, applications and so on that are that are running on the system than just, you know, arbitrary resources, although you can't see any resource depleting Kubernetes through that.  Instead, they just give them access to an Argo CD pipeline and they do all of their work to get off. As a result, the developers are actually using Argo CD as the main UI to Kubernetes. So yeah, it's a little bit. So we are targeting two kinds of users, one for ML and data processing users. There they use Argo workflows with Argo events to do any kind of data processing, moving from tools like airflow, or and doing ML ops. Then the other side where it's application developers, they use Argo CD to sync their clusters with whatever is defined in Git. Now Argo CD can work with any pipeline, it can work with Jenkins, it can work with Argo workflows, it can work with Tecton, any pipeline. So Argo CD does the sync part and showing the applications integrated with logs, troubleshooting, all of that, but to drive the change across different environments using Argo CD, either you can do auto sync, or you can drive it through a pipeline. And that pipeline can be either Argo workflows, or it can be Jenkins or any pipeline. Yes, thank you very much. So ID Argo CD is the much more integrated tailored to continuous delivery system and then yes. Yeah, the notion of workflows from events and then this being making up the event driven processing model is actually something that the serverless working group has concluded to at the bottom towards the end of the white paper. So having looked at the serverless landscape. I think one conclusion is that yes events would trigger functions. I think that is also the main term that is used in the serverless working group. And then functions could emit other events to trigger other functions and this representing or making up a workflow. So it's kind of decomposing the application workflows into events and functions. And while cloud events did the very good job at standardizing the event format 1.0 and it has reached very good adoption among public cloud providers. There was still the workflow tasks and this is where our subgroup comes in. So in serverless workflow subgroup we I think initial work has started with adopting a language that is a little bit similar to Amazon States language if you may be familiar with that. Or if you know it function stage by Huawei. And it has evolved a little bit further with mostly the work done by T homea. And we have recently also applied to become a sandbox project so to host the work done within the serverless workflow. Subgroup, and to do get a little bit more presence among the CNCF project so to become to become a sandbox project ourselves. And this is where we had review meeting with the sick delivery and maybe to me if you want to pull up the slides or I can do it to introduce where we stand with the serverless workflow language so far. Yeah, definitely. Thanks Manu. Well, first hello everybody. I'm really happy about this meeting and. Yeah, the presentation right now argue is really nice but I really like it. But my name is to whom I just wanted to introduce kind of myself to if you guys don't mind for a minute I work at redhead I've been around workflows for years so it's not like we have some, even though we have a small community we have people in place that been around for many many years. And the reason why I want to introduce myself I went, I go all the way back to so open people and stuff like that those type of times where we had very custom markup formats to describe workflows. And over the time and especially at redhead I'm kind of like in your guys's boat to we everything that I've been doing for the last decade or more is open source. And the reason why we especially got involved with CNCF especially the workflow group and have invested tons of you can say people they're on board here have invested a lot of time into it just like you guys have from community perspective is the reason that we really need specifications. This is like at redhead I've been using BP man to DMN CMM and it's very important for any open source project, in my opinion again is to really utilize specifications. And this is kind of like where where where, especially now that the we're writing actually complete a runtime implementation on our end for the serverless workflow specification so it is implementable. So if you guys have any questions regarding that I'll be more than happy, but that is kind of like the point where we come in and I think this is kind of like the integration points I think Argo is amazing the runtime and everything he can do. But we are more focused here on the specification on the on the on the model of representing what you guys, you know, of course called workflows and NASA as well. And if, can I share the screen manual is that okay. Yeah. Yeah. When I give us an introduction to Well, I kind of just want to go. I don't want to go through the whole presentation that I did with with the sick but can you guys see my screen now. Yes, yes. I just want to go through a couple of slides and all our time is limited I don't want to bore anybody here, but I think two of our slides here kind of represent the specification overall. So what is this slide which you guys are under to of course, but it's the state of kind of like the work for a world now we were going, we are going seriously from this BPM and to kind of, you know, driven world that kind of really put the runtime implementation put the entire workflow, kind of work under a vendor lock because of specific tooling as well as runtimes and BPM and to is is is a huge usually specification however he has its issues. And it's not discussed about that but the point is the world is moving into what you guys are also doing Jason YAML best work for serverless and why, because you guys are going to simply orchestrate event based workflows in in in the cloud and these number of different types of Jason YAML based markups is growing every day. And there is a need for standardizing this I think also in your guys is and I think you guys have just said okay, we can work with tecton pipe ones, but it can you really take your workflow notation that you currently have imported to the types of not only cloud platforms but also runtimes that exist. There is that's where the kind of specifications are important. And the second slide I wanted to show is basically and I'll make it bigger is kind of what the serverless specification is trying to do. Again, we're not providing runtimes we're providing similar to your Python definition of your workflow we're creating providing a Jason schema that is the core of our model definition. Out of this Jason schema that we can create API's SPI's and also we are working thinking in the future providing a TCK because every specification definitely needs that. But implementations that would provide is the runtime so the goal of the serverless specification is provide the Jason and YAML both formats are supported by the specification to be able to execute on different runtimes on different cloud platforms. And that's kind of where we are at we we we are working as a team on on defining this Jason schema that actually mode, you know they can be used across different runtimes. So, kind of like, and what else. Yeah, this is kind of like the problem that we see currently. I don't know how it is with Argo you guys can tell me. But when you're starting to use a workflow solution currently you're kind of vendor lock, especially on the workflow model, and also workflow notation because if you see things like AWS, Amazon, Microsoft, things like that every everybody has a different model that are represented workflows with our specification does not go into it. Maybe yet, but this we really focus just on the model. So, from the integration perspective between the two groups. I think we have to talk about the notation. What can be expressed with Argo workflows and can that the same thing be expressed with with with our current Jason schema. Now again, is there interest in that on your end, I don't know, right. But at least, you know, with this meeting I think we can start maybe some discussion on that and what do you guys think. Next question. Is there any other implementation of this specification yet. Anybody else. As far as we know, no, we have an implementation with a redhead and I can, I can do a demo if you guys want with that which is a fully event based triggered workflow. If you guys are interested in that I've been more than happy to do it now or whenever they're, you know, yeah, I would be interested in seeing it. I guess if you're going to do this kind of stuff you do need some kind of reference implementation. Just like what you guys have a runtime engine which takes your custom Kubernetes resource the YAML that you produce and converts it probably into an internal object structure. That's type of the runtime that any type of runtime will probably do right. You need to represent the Jason and YAML in some sort of internal object model. And can be executed. Correct. Are you also looking at specifying the event specific. Oh, yes, yes. I think I want to just show this slide maybe which kind of what what kind what is the service workflow. We focus on a language that is that allows workflows to orchestrate microservices what does that mean but microservices event based triggered workflows. That can be of course repeatable. There is three parts of the service workforce specification which are function definitions. In our case we of course do not care how these functions are written they can be polyglot, and we're not kind of soap where did you define that, but we define how these functions can be executed. That's under the function so we can go look into the example then we have events events are a core type of structure in the in what that means is events can start workflow execution events can be produced when the workflow execution ends, and also events can be produced during the the execution of workflows. Now, as far as parameters goes their past two functions, they're Jason so they can be events as well. So cloud event format which is a format that represents events in a Jason format can be used pretty much throughout the the workflow. Now the third part is what you guys call steps, and we currently call it states are the building blocks or the control flow flow logic blocks that allows you to do things like what you guys already can do for example parallel execution, a split joint type of situation, and stuff like that. So we have. Let me go get to this slide if I can real quick. Yeah, and it's your go to produces like that end users for us or that other workflow things will like kind of compile down to essentially um excuse me I didn't didn't hear the question very well. I'm pauses. So you know this Jason syntax and everything and is the idea that end users like you know ML engineers data scientists are actually going to write their workflows in this back or more that you know they will be using something else but it will translate or compile down to this. The idea is just similar. Argo, which you just showed in your your really nice demo is that just like your hub you allow users to enter in YAML code. This is the same type of aspect we do not read. It's, it's, it's users are supposed to write their Jason and YAML code, depending that conforms to the Jason schema and just to show you that so this back is intended for use by end users. Yes, yes, sir. So you said something about model and notation. I thought, and then you said you're focusing on model. Definitely. And the reason for that is Number one, go ahead. So this is the model. I didn't understand the difference you meant as model versus notation, because if this is the user spec that the user is supposed to write this is the notation or No, this is the model the notation would be the graphical or the visual representation of your workflow. Right. Okay. So we do not tackle that part. I don't think Argo at this time does either. Maybe I'm incorrect, right? But So the users write like Jason or YAML or do they create the workflows visually or both? No, for this specification, we only focus for on the markup or the model, which is the Jason or the YAML. But you expect end users to write that directly, right? Yes, with the help of course, and this is kind of like where I wanted to kind of go. Just one second. We do have Implementations of this back are there today. Currently just one. Okay, how many users are using it today? Currently as far as use cases, we were pushing this as far. As far as users end users are using this. Community in the redhead of the cogito project, which are adopting it right now with this is fairly started, you know, the specification has been evolving for over a year and a half now. We started over six months ago doing the implementation, which has been completed and now we're adopting but as far as that I, this will be pushed also as far as the redhead. I'm just going to talk to for myself. How do you say product so you will also have community users as far as our community. How do you mostly use the inside red hat? What you're saying. Yeah, as far as an open source project for which used to be JPM and rules, and we have evolved that into a new project called cogito which now also includes the support for BPM and to the MNC and and now also the serverless workflow specification as well. We see it as one of the many formats which which we're also targeting Kubernetes and stuff like that on our end but there has nothing to do with the specification. I don't want to waste anybody's time. But the nice thing also about your YAML, which is an extension of JSON and also the JSON format you can write. How do you say plugins, for example, I wrote a VS code plugin to for, for, or like ID support. Yeah, RDE support. So one of the things that both we can do, both the Argo and then and also anything that all the animals once is right, very simple ID support to help users write the JSON or the I think that's nice. A couple of points I want to just highlight these are one of them will sound like a low technical detail is that basically all all our workflows boiled down to direct today's cyclic graphs. In the way that if your programming language is touring complete you can do anything in any other programming language can do. If you can, if you can boil down your workflow down into a direct today's cycle graph, where each node is a function vocation, then you can, but you can basically model every graph every workflow you need to anything else you do on that until that is a is bonus but also I could be syntactic sugar. And we have plenty of kind of effectively syntactic sugar in our charts. And that SDK aspect is really important for uptake of people I can see that the defining a workflow specification allows you to really kind of decouple those two aspects have one organization build various different SDKs and different languages and another organization build the actual execute the workflow executor as well quite quite separately, and I wouldn't I wouldn't underestimate the importance of that kind of tooling to users, our users don't really like using YAML at all. They, they, you know, they tolerate it, but it doesn't have, you know, anything like the kind of tooling that they're used to when when writing code such as also completion, you know, syntax, you know, sophisticated syntax highlighting YAML doesn't doesn't give you any of that you effectively have to code your YAML, submit it to be executed and if it gets rejected by the executor then you know it's syntactically embedded it's much better to do that in the, in the ID. Yeah, definitely. The only thing we have done personally we had conversations with IBM to have this tool called Node Red, and they're building a palette for it but that has nothing to do, especially because we in the specification like I said we haven't tackled the notation part yet it might come later on and maybe it's a collaboration between, you know, our teams together or whoever community wise might be interested but that's a big task, you know, and especially if you, you already have an amazing really BPMN and as far as I talk about it a lot but the notation part is really useful and nice. And, you know, having to do something differently or do we reuse something that already exists in their regard is a decision that still has to be made at the end. But I do, I did want to show from our end, just real quickly and you guys can go through it. We did create somewhat like examples. I took this from your guys as examples I hope you guys don't mind. And we have written comparable side by side comparison between Argo and the serverless workflow. And I think it's really showed a lot of different things. Number one, I think from functionality wise so far what I've seen now of course your examples might not cover all the functionality Argo does. So maybe we can work on this, but they're fairly comparable. So far what I've seen right. There are some things that Argo does that are really like they're different that we currently do not support in the serverless workflow specification but we are not set in stone and we can collaborate on how we can possibly match up functionality wise. What I can see so far. Do you have an example of a DAG? Yes, I think actually. I took the DAG example actually from Argo. By the way, I like your comparison here. Yes, yeah, and I think it's really important to have this in order to actually say hey can we even integrate this or is this even useful. And I hope to add more examples and hopefully to get help from you guys, which examples would be good to add and that's kind of like maybe something we can talk together about. So what I've seen so far, my understanding is that yes, the serverless workflow specification is more verbose. So most of the examples you will see that the amount of lines of YAML that you need is typically more than what you guys currently have so we can work on actually reducing that I think that's one of the tasks we got out of. You say commentize it over and over right like operation default. Yes, definitely. So that's something that we can work on. But the other side, I think the one serverless workflow specification has right now. It's, it's actually defines a more. No, I want to say readable, but it is somewhat more structured than what our goal has and I think that's maybe a trade off that we can kind of look into and compare and contrast and work on together if you guys are of course interested in that I think the service serverless workflow specification defines more concrete states with types that can be more easily translated for tooling and kind of more readability, if you can even get that within what we're doing, more or less without tooling but that's kind of like the comparison. There is some things that Argo does specifically on the functionality and that we do differently. For example, timeouts. I know one of the examples you guys have a workflow why timeout where you start a workflow and you say okay, if it doesn't complete within a minute, just exit right in in the service specification where it's done a little differently, which is, for example, timeout on on events actually occurring to start the workflow instance, or timeouts on actually executing a function or for you guys is a in your guys example, a function that's defined in a pod. So that's kind of like the difference. Another difference is that, for example, where you guys, and you can see we you, we had to use, in order for me to translate these examples. We had to use metadata, and I'm trying to figure out one example, for example, this. For example, that's one thing that that is different in that you guys have the container definitions, right, where you use explicitly say my function or my function that is exposed in kubernetes is in a container where the serverless work for specification kind of abstracts that into functions, right, where do you where do you map that to a container does it is a container. Because we don't really only work on kubernetes level. No, no, no, but if it is implemented as a container on kubernetes where do you well, we have to the specification defines two parameters one is a type which is a user defined type. So the type parameter to kind of specify your runtime. This is a rest API, or this is something that runs on the container, or this is a Kafka event, or this is a Java or a Python interface, right. And also we have metadata extension points on both kind of like extension points on both the state level or the definition level that we also have extension points on the whole workflow level. So you can implement things like logging or tracing or entire extension points that you can implement if you want to. I guess one big difference is that, you know, this is not only for kubernetes or even containers. Yeah, as a specification we cannot focus on one thing. So, yeah, it's that's, but hopefully we can, as far as functionality goes, it can be used or not we're trying to figure out. Yeah, whereas our go workflow there only for kubernetes. So, so as I see it, it will be more like a layer on top of our goal, because somebody needs to generate the kubernetes manifest, our goal, these are all kubernetes manifest which directly can be applied to kubernetes. So, so somebody either Argo team or somebody else has to write like a mapping layer on top of the Argo specs to convert this to the Argo Kubernetes manifest. Yes, assuming that the languages reach feature balance so that we could represent everything in serverless workflow as Argo can currently express it with the workflow CRD. Then yes, this would be simply a layer on top if there was translation to be done I think that's manageable if there was however any mismatch like the workflow time out that to me has already identified then there's more work probably to be done on the language specification.  So at the serverless workflow subgroup it's whether an attempt as you've already seen, we're not covering the function binding. So the binding to Kubernetes platform or to container environment is is on remains unspecified, but there is the common concept of having pieces of work expressed or marginalized in functions, and then to give some controls structure to the execution of this work. So I think at this level, the workflow language tries to express a control logic and then. So I'm with Nokia Bell apps and we are looking at it to to find a way to have a common description language we are executing stuff completely differently I think also Kogito does so Kogito is I understand if I understand correctly is very much tailored to Java functions and can do through other function bindings in can invoke a lot of more different workloads. We, for example, we would compile the entire workflow into a single container runtime. So it's a completely different execution model underneath that, but we would we want would like to have is commonly adopted or accepted workflow language and maybe also reaching consensus on the terminology with several projects because eventually what we've already figured is Amazon States language calls these individual stop states, I don't think so in states language there is only one forward pass, but a state machine would not be a cyclic. So there is a lot of alignment necessary to get into, which eventually benefits the user right if the user has only this one learning curve to adopt this one terminology and then knows how to operate in different environments. This is I think what we want to get to with the standardization of the workflow language. So do you have any interest from Amazon or Microsoft and like also adopting this for like persistent cloud functions or stuff like that. So I know there are several larger parties involved in cloud events specification and in the serverless working group. Their interest in this subgroup task has been, I don't know, maybe sidetracked a lot because of the cloud events specification but also a bit hesitant to jump to workflow specification. We had ideas that maybe it is too early to talk about workflow specification. So that rather the statefulness of serverless executions needs to be discussed first. That would be your artifact layer. So, maybe, maybe it is too early yet for them on. Maybe we just need to get a little bit further like a chicken and egg problem to have a little bit more meat before we can actually have them participate in the discussion. And also that this could model something like airflow as well. Should user use airflow through this specification. That is not in your scope. So I'm not aware of the apache airflow. Yeah. I don't know what we're trying to do. Number one is create. Number one thing is vendor neutrality and we want to be portable. I think this, the situation currently with all these different workflows based YAML and JSON based notations. There has to be some standardization and there will be if it's not with this specification it will be somebody else that creates one. And I think Argo is a project and you guys can prove me wrong but I've been working on opensource so long writing your own markup for something has its limits and it has its kind of life expectancy because if it's not this specification with CNCF like I said a specification for this will be created and it really depends who adopts it. The big guns adopted like Microsoft and AWS and those guys Amazon probably not, but they might in the future, but as far as open source type of smaller project type it's very important for survival of especially your notation. And you guys know this better than me. We had things before like custom markups even with our BPMN before BPMN and it always fell short. And I think also other smaller size open source companies can can can talk about that specifications help you in many ways and I think we're not perfect. You know, there's a lot of things that we want to change it we would like to get in a community order to make our stuff better, but at the same time we won't also work with you guys. So that's the type of thing. Yes, like Manio said we're in a chicken and egg thing we're a specification at CNCF that is looking for adoption, but at the same time we need adoption in order to be allowed to grow. This is kind of like where we would like to find some sort of community within other projects and sort of interest. We're not saying do one or the other. But we would also be willing of course to help projects there say okay we have some interest here and we would like to have some sort of adoption for the future to help there out as well as far as pull a request and help there as well because at the end we're all CNCF and we're all open source for a budget to license right. So that's the kind of thing we're looking for right now. What do you see as the main I don't know like it's the goal that this is glue that can glue together, workflow that run on containers, Kubernetes, Lambda, whatever. Or are you how getting a particular application there is like what are you focusing on and creating this back. The focus is very similar. I think what the majority of the current JSON and YAML based workflow specification is which is the workflow orchestration. So essentially, especially in the serverless community, you have many, many different microservices deployed that might run some on Kubernetes but some might not run on Kubernetes. That's not the exact question. For example, how important is it that your spec be able to encompass both fads as well as like our growth style Kubernetes workflows, container based workflows. I think it is important to do both, because at the end of the day, we strive I think to be able to model workflows in both worlds. Is there such a big difference in those. Yes, I believe there is like in the execution environment there is, but we also had until we'd like to distinguish between serverless in terms of programming model, you know, basically how developers write their code versus, you know, like the execution model using containers or what the programming model and you know developers into it. They're not really interested right now in writing applications using a fast style. They actually find it much more difficult to do it that way. So, however, there is a lot of interest in terms of using events to trigger workflows and doing, you know, that your more core screen async processing so I don't know if that distinction makes sense. So, so unifying very disparate workflow models like fads or event based model I mean you could think of it as workflows or event based processing right there, or you know what fads even, but unifying very disparate models like fads versus batch versus, you know, lambda that kind of thing. It may be very hard to do that and target a particular community so that's just my random thought. So, since we are almost over time, I had one question like does Red Hat or any of the members of this work group have any resource who can map the two project specs? Like do you guys have anybody who would be interested in doing it? Yeah. I think we should definitely contribute like the conversion because as I said, it has to be a layer above because Argo is very Kubernetes. It is Kubernetes CRD and manifests. How is the work split up today I guess in the working group? Who's working on what? First of all, I find this very interesting. Yes. Yes, specifications help. Totally agree. I definitely have some more conversations. I think personally, I think it would help us kind of map out the space and at least figure out what part Argo workflows part fits into. I mean, we have our idea of where it fits into but we're not so familiar with things outside of that domain.  So, you know, I think that engagement would be very useful. But how is the work for the working group currently split up? Like who is working on what? Well, we're currently a very small team, right? We have a couple of, we have, of course, manual with Nokia, we have RedHack, we have Camunda on board and Huawei. And we have a small community of people who join meetings that are involved. As far as work does, we have some growth need, of course, on the community side. We do kind of things. We have a roadmap where we add what we are planning to do. And basically, we're doing it as time, of course, allows like other CNCF projects that things as well. Yeah, I'm sure this is all public recognition, but if you would just send us a link to your roadmap, that would help us. Yeah, definitely. So, like RedHack, for example, I'm assuming everyone is contributing to this back. They're interested in doing this back. But RedHack also has the implementation that they're working on. Yeah, I mean, I'll do the demo because of time now in the next meeting. Absolutely. Yeah, but I do want to say there is interest. I'm not, even though we work for different companies, of course, since this is a specification, we're not pushing any interest into this at all. We are looking at the entire community needs and having the Argo community involved in just, you know, allowing us would be a huge thing for us. I don't think you guys understand how big this would be for us to have such a community with you guys that have not only an implementation, but also much larger community and exposure and everything basically to kind of help us out. And at the same time, you know, of course, we would be involved into helping with the integration as well. So it's not like we don't have hands. Absolutely. I mean, you know, we already work with several groups at RedHack, actually, both Argo CD as well. Definitely, definitely. So that would be nice as far, you know, if you guys see interest, I do see the need for Argo would be nice. For us, of course, it's within CNCF, we could use a little bit of help to kind of push us forward as far as infrastructure goes, growth within the CNCF ecosystem goes, because with CNCF it seems very difficult. It's easy to do projects, but it's harder to do specifications without some sort of adoption. So, so, you know, we're kind of here saying, okay, we're here, we have something I think that is useful. It is, of course, not perfect and needs community work and community love basically. However, I think there is something and, and if we can possibly work with other CNCF products like you guys don't be big. Currently, we have monthly community meetings and the next one being first Monday in June. That is, I think first, and also for next week Monday we have a primer call schedule to think about the same time as today's call. In which we discuss the base concepts of the language and whether we took the right turns and try to summarize this into sort of a conceptual motivational primer paper. Personally, I can say I'd be very happy to welcome you to the calls and for me in Nokia develops we I have the similar situation of whether I should root for adopting it or not. Because so we've recently, we've launched canyx micro functions some edge serverless platform and I'm in the same boat here of whether we should do the effort and implement this workflow language specification or try to shape it a little bit further before we do so. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I guess being too early is just as bad as being too late. So we'll go back and we'll look at the comparison those examples that that that's on your GitHub repo right. Yes. Okay. What is the name of the red hat project. I don't know if there's any documentation of a O G I T O. Yeah, there is what sorry a website and all kinds of stuff. And I'll link you personally I'll send you in chat all kinds of links to examples and everything you want. But yeah, I'm just not. I'm not we're not promoting that on the certain specification and whatsoever because at the end is just a runtime implementation. Yeah, I mean, what we find is that like for, you know, I'm not sure about specs but we find that for actual like tools that you want people to use this obviously very important to decide which community you're targeting. You know, because you can't like go out there, like three different communities at once. So, I don't know if you have brought agreement there or whether. Some people interested in a spec right now are more like that type of models others are more ML processing type of things but they are very different communities so And, and, and if it's too early then it's kind of hard to create a spec that will be adopted by multiple communities so those are some of our concerns I'm sure you have some. And I think you're very correct in that what we have within the specification as far as people involved. Our people have been around business process modeling for many, many years. So yes, currently the specification is kind of tending in that direction. But I think that's where kind of like this talk for example is big because then we can reach out to you guys for help on all the other environments as well and get help and input on how to improve. Yeah, I mean when we were starting the Argo workflow project. We obviously looked at all the different workflow engines that were available and there were many right even at that time. And so we tried to pick an area we feel was not didn't have too many existing versions targeting that particular use case or committee and on that we felt with is likely to grow rapidly so that's how we kind of pick the ML or data processing area and we'd love to of course understand better what the other members of the working group are thinking in terms of what use cases or communities, or what they personally want to use it for. So this is great. Yeah, but that's a set up a follow meeting to get further into this. Yes, perfect. Would you like to join in our next community call or should we make it a separate series. If they're not too busy. And, you know, that would be great. If you have a packed agenda then it probably be better to have a separate. No, I think we're good. We separated all the primer work so. Okay. Yes, please send us the invitation forward as invitations for. Yes, I will. Thanks. Thank you so much. It's nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. You guys know you can just reach out to us on the slack. So if you want to ask any more questions. Yes, we will. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks all. Bye. Thank you guys.


Get lost when you're creating to the point where you just zone everything else around you out. I Do that in this video. So stay tuned Okay, hey you guys welcome to another episode of the arty trio, this is mood board number 14 14 I can't believe it So if you want to get your own copy of the mood board, which is this one here Then you can do that by joining the arty trio Facebook group the link is in the video description If you look at the mood board, it's very Red roses hearts some nature some distressed books There was just something about it. I couldn't let go of the red color. I couldn't let go of the idea of I'm painting a certain image, which we'll get to in a minute and last night in the middle of the night I thought about what I wanted to say which is just totally bizarre anyway Bizarre yet not just bizarre. So first we're going to work on the background Of course, we're going to use this as an art experiment. Do I know exactly that it's going to turn out? Not really, but we're going to find out I'll make some notes on this side about what I did and let's just give it a shot I will be transparent and say that I experimented a little bit on a scrap Piece of paper before we got started. I do think it's going to turn out the way I want, but we'll see All right, let's get first We're going to do the background. Let's get started. I have my he me gouache palette here This is an old double-digit tray and the first thing we're going to do is background. So I want to do blue sky colors Muted I've got this like pretty Sort of turquoisey blue. I'm going to put some of it on here I'm going to add some water And just really sort of mute it maybe Do this I have a little bit of a darker blue, but I don't know that I want to add too much of that, but we'll See how far we get. I kind of want a bigger brush so let me grab one Should have done that before I took the camera on But you know hindsight's always 20-20 right? All right, I'll make her grab some clean water. This is a big flat brush It's great for washes like this That's better One of the reasons I put some of my he me gouache in this egg tray was so I could use like this big Flat brush and I could get it into the colors fairly easily Okay, so now let's give that a dry The next thing I want to do My friend Leslie McGrath was just here recently visiting while I'm talking him getting out some glue by the way, and she was working we were working her projects Here in the art room and she was using this doily Which she obviously you can see she used part of it and she left the rest I was going to throw it away and I thought you know, I don't think I'm going to do that I think I'm going to use it on this project It's one of those things I Just my mind you just couldn't let go of so now that we've done that wash on the background We're going to put this down to make sure all the edges are glued For those unaware most of the time I use glue stick to do the sort of thing collage and This if it's thicker paper, I'll use different glue, but most of the time I can get away with glue stick Okay, so that's exactly what I thought it was going to look like which is great while That's kind of drying not that it needs to dry a lot. We're going to set this aside somewhere and We're going to work on the focal image which is going to be a rose now fun fact I actually just like taking painting roses and I never feel like they turn out real well. This one's not horrible But we're gonna I'm determined to keep playing with it. This is the sample one that I did We're going to do it again. I will show you how I did this. It's very easy I know you guys are like, oh my god a painting tutorial. I can't do that. Yes, you can If I can do it you can do it because yeah, I'm not great at it. All right You're going to need a water-soluble paint It can be It can be water-soluble ink even but you're gonna need something that's water-soluble like watercolor or wash You probably can do this as acrylic, but you're gonna need to work faster because Once the acrylic dries, it's you can't move it. I'm gonna start with This this one I started with the dark red. I think this time I'm gonna start with pink and I'm going to mix my pink up here. Let's see And I have a very small brush. It's a number five round And I'm gonna get the end of the brush wet. Yep. Okay. Oh there now. I can see better Okay, so I'm going to start up towards the top of this little card. These are cut to like ATC size and I'm going to just do a swirl and I'm going to sort of shaky-handed swirl sometimes pressing down hard on the paper Sometimes lifting it up. So just the tip shows Okay Then I'm going to take a little bit bigger round brush where to go.  So start out light And then you can go darker that actually was too much paint see And which one of these I end up using just really depends on how this one turns out to be honest with you So I'm going to just take the wet brush and go over this and some of that paint pigment will stick to the brush and See there it lifted some of that some of that up. So Let me see work kind of quickly and you work while it's wet Now the whole idea behind this is to work while it's wet But if I don't this is gouache, so it'll re-wet but anyway, so now I'm going to grab some of the red Just a little bit. I'm going back to the small brush and this is still wet so you can see the red just automatically Goes and mixes in with the pink because the water-soluble paint is going to take that past path of least resistance And it's going to follow the water. It's not going to go on to the parts of the paper that are still dry it's going to follow the water and Hopefully we come out with something that looks like an abstracted painting of a rose and you can Keep working with it and adding color to it until you get exactly what you want remember when you are doing this and you're touching This little tiny paintbrush to your paper. You're not digging any holes to the other side of the planet Very little very very light touch delicate touch. That's actually not bad. I'm surprised Okay, we're going to go back to some paint because I feel like it needs Something like right here Okay, now I'm going to add a little bit of green to it Got a couple shades of green Hopefully this is not where I mess it up, but we'll see so that was with the big brush and the lighter green Now I'm going to go in with a smaller brush and a darker green And that's it. Those are the two roses. I do think I did a better job on this one than I did this one But they're both nice So now we're going to push that paint aside and we are going to dry both of them because they're both still wet and I'll be right back Okay, before we do anything else. I kind of want to distress the edges on this because there is some like brown Beige weathered rusty colors on the mood board specifically with the the old books that are on the board But before I decide what colors I'm using we're going to just go on a scrap of paper here This is the twig. I'm going to take the frayed burlap And again, these are just make-up. These are makeup brushes. These are cheap I think these are from Wish, but I mean you could just get stuff at the dollar store they do make Distress brushes if you have those use those So that is actually really nice and that's how I wanted that to look So let me reset the table and let's get this page finished. Oh My god, you guys, I thought I had the camera on and it wasn't on Okay, you guys So camera issues because I've been off for like three weeks and haven't been filming Is it really camera issues or is it operator issues? I think it's operator shoes Anyway, after we got the distressing done it turned out like this Which you already saw in the clip. Don't you love the way this looks? I love it I Did as I said think about something in the middle of the night last night that I wanted to say on the page So I took a dark gray uniball unipin Fine liner and in it. It actually is dark gray. That's the color and I wrote this on a spare piece of note paper and Then I took the same pen and just did some Doodling around the rose image sort of blueprint inspired E straight lines. I don't know I love the way this turned out What do you guys think? Super easy. I know you guys could figure this out. So we're going to put do some notes now And Since I forgot to film this part all film and talking through this part So I always make notes in this journal. This is my sort of experiments journal And after I finish the page I write down some notes and thoughts about the page So first I always start out with what kind of paints and mediums I use So he me gouache We'll leave a set a little bit of room for the paint swatches and then Distressing and I put the ink away. I need to do swatches. What was I thinking? Let's grab the colors Stone and free burlap. So in this case because No, not pumice stone free burlap It was twig something twig it was the lighter one not the darker one see this is what happens you guys I'm just like oops salty ocean. Nope Nope gathered twigs Holy cow, okay, so what I'm gonna do in this case is I'm gonna just do this and then we will Write the name under it. Oh, so yeah, and then for the gouache paint. We're gonna grab a little brush here and they don't really have paint names, but We're gonna just do a swatch Of the colors. There's really only four colors. Well, no, I'll do the blues too So six colors Helps if the brush is all the way clean This way if I ever want to do something inspired by this again I know exactly what I did obviously as you can see I'm a bit forgetful and scatterbrained on a good day Believe it or not today is a good day So if I don't make myself notes Forget what the heck I did just got to drop a paint on that picture Which is okay, I guess but let's see if we can get some of that off Because you know, this is just turning out all kinds of Interesting yeah, that's what we're gonna call it interesting. We'll balance out one mistake with another There you go, because maybe that was meant to be right, okay And actually I like the little mistakes. What do you guys think? So I would love to see what you do if you are inspired by this month's mood board to create something In your journal. I'd love to see what you do. I'm sorry for the lack of Proper filming in this video because you know Anyway, but I hope you saw enough to give you an idea the most important thing I wanted to bring you was how to do this and that's what I did Assembling the page y'all can do that. I have confidence. Anyway, think about joining us over in the RT trio Facebook group I will link the others videos down below Check them out show them some love like share and subscribe and don't forget to go out and do something nice for yourself Because you deserve it and I'll see you later. Bye guys


What are you going to use? I'm going to use... I'm going to mix these.  No, you can't. Just use one of them. Just use one of them. You seem to have... which one do you have faith in? This one. Yeah, so use that. Okay. So, good evening. This is not about me loving social media or being obsessed with social media. I'm simply trying to help out, hoping that I can reach out to some people about this COVID. Some people have been asking questions. Some are skeptical. I just want to make a few... a few clarifications and hopefully I can reach out to somebody out there in relation to this COVID-19. My objective is that we can heighten... we can heighten our awareness on COVID and take the precautions as a device. So, but before I go into that, let me first express my deepest condolences to the nation for the death of... for the death of our founding father, Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, who passed on today. I'm lucky to be one of those people that experienced part of his rule as president. And I must say that Kaunda really set up Zambia on a foot, especially in terms of patriotism. I think he... Kaunda did much, much... he did very well in terms of making us aware of our nation of being patriot. He did very well. Anyway, I'm not going to say much about that. I suffice to say I tender my condolences to the nation, to the family of Dr. Kaunda.  I mean, what more would you ask for? What more would you want than what Kaunda had? Anyway, having said that, let me go to the issue that I want to discuss. Number one, when did I feel, you know, the discomfort? I started feeling the discomfort on Sunday. On Sunday, and I remember on Sunday, it was a full day of political activities, going around campaigning. And part of the things that I did is to go to the dump site. So when I came back, I was not feeling very well. But I thought it is the stench and the smoke from the dump site. So I ignored the discomfort. The discomfort was on my, you know, throat. You know, just on my throat somewhere there, feeling a little bit of, like, you know, like, there is smoke there. So which made me really feel to say, because I was at the dump site and there was this burning continuously, smoke coming out. So I thought it was the smoke that had affected my throat. Unfortunately, it persisted. It persisted for about three days. Until about yesterday, something else started coming up. I think the day before yesterday, I was feeling, you know, rather tired. But, you know, I felt like, sorry, I give you what? From there. Sorry, I have to give something. So today is Tuesday. On Tuesday, you know, I was feeling like quite tired. I was feeling body pains.  That's how I was feeling. But of course, I do, you know, gym in the morning. So, but I didn't do anything more than usual. Unfortunately, I was feeling this tired.  But I really thought it was just about me working out or anything. That was on Tuesday. Yesterday, things changed. I started feeling hot. I started feeling, you know, having a come out headache. But still I thought, you know, it's a flu because now I was even feeling the nose blocking. So I thought maybe it's a flu that is coming. Clearly the feeling which I got was that of when you have a flu and when you are about to feel malaria. If you have malaria, you know, like going to have malaria. I, you know, when I was telling one of our helpers, she actually said, no, I think in a quarter of a malaria, you have malaria. That's what she said. But in the night, things changed. Last night, things changed drastically. My nose was quite blocked. My headache persisted. And then the body, I was really shaking. I was feeling so cold.  Corona is different. Trust me, ladies and gentlemen, Corona is different. Corona is different. I've never felt like this. I have never felt like this.  And the shivering, you actually feel like the lungs, the cold has affected your lungs. But the iron of it is that on top of your body, inside your body, when you're feeling your knees, you feel they are warm.  It is not a good experience. At that point, I realized I've never felt like this. This is strange. I've had malaria, I've had all these other, all these other, you know, sicknesses. But the way I felt it was different. COVID-19, you feel different. My body was really feeling that hot.  That's how I was feeling. Oh, my body was so, was really just penning like I've been bitten big time. That is how I was feeling. And at that point, I said no. And it was getting worse. During the day, it was not so bad, but during the night, especially around 00, it got worse. My breathing was difficult. My headache was, you know, and that's how I went to the hospital just before 00. I went to the hospital. We were at the hospital just after 00 at Levy Moana Wasa. Now, at Levy Moana Wasa, I'm telling you, if you haven't been to the hospital, you may, you know, doubt the statistics that are coming out. You may doubt them.  Yesterday night, when I went to Levy, I actually witnessed how those numbers are increasing almost per minute because when I arrived there, the reception was full. People kept on coming.  They were not able to move by themselves. Others were able to move. It was just like, like it's not, it's not that night. It was not good. It was really not good. So those numbers really, people are going to the hospitals. And of course, I was attended to, tested and the, the results came, came out positive. But what, but how come if my, if I was tested positive, how come I am home? I am home because my vitals, especially my oxygen saturation in the body was at 93. The normal, I suppose it's supposed to be about 95, 95 to 100 around there. That is, that should be the oxygen saturation in the body. It was at 93. And most probably could be because of the remedies that I was taking, because I was taking remedies even before. You know, just as a precautionary. I used to steam. I used to take, you know, the ginger and all these other things. You know, so I think that helped. So my oxygen level or oxygen saturation was high. The reason I couldn't be admitted in the hospital. So they gave me the medicine. They gave me the medicine and I came back home. But on the medicine again, things are very serious. The hospitals are running out of the necessary medicines. The necessary medicines to cure corona if it is to cure or to help out or to boost the immunity. At the hospital I only managed to get paracetamol and the immune booster. That's all. Azetomycin. That is the immune booster. So I got azetomycin. I got, yes, the azetomycin, the immune booster and paracetamol. And even the paracetamol which I got is not much. It was just the, you know, that moment, I think there were only six in the sachet. Only six. As a whatever, the immune booster I gave, I got seven because I need to drink seven. So I got, that one I got seven. But other medications which were on the prescriptions they are not in the hospital. So this is something that we need to consider to think about. Our hospitals don't have the medicines. And we only bought the medicines today. And I can tell you that the medicines they are not cheap. They are not cheap. The medicines are not cheap. Just that vitamin C 1000 what, what do you call it? 1000 grams? Yeah. The vitamin C I mean cost about 180,000 180 quattro. And then what is that, what is the other medicine? Azitromycin no, the one that we bought, the one which was 250. Yeah. Then the other one is about 250. So the medicines are not cheap. The medicines are not cheap. And the hospitals don't have them. While I was there I saw how the doctor was panicking busy on the phone calling the center for them to bring oxygen because they had run out of oxygen. Right there just at the reception they had run out of oxygen. And he was frantically moving up and down calling for oxygen to come. So the situation is very delicate. And of course you can't blame the government to say they are not buying the medicines. It's very difficult when the situation is overwhelming like this one. It's difficult to have enough stocks including the testing kits. They are also a challenge. The testing kits, they are also a challenge. I had to wait for about 30 minutes for them to bring the testing kits because they had also run out. So clearly you can see that the testing kits are in. It is not a joke it is a serious matter which we need to consider. Hospitals don't have all the necessary requirements to treat COVID. And of course you can't blame the hospital. The best that we can do is if we can try to you know somebody saying vitamin C we are buying vitamin C at 30 koacha or vachan denonde problem where are you buying vitamin C at 30 koacha we are buying vitamin C at 30 koacha we have to use the same color.  Too bad. Take it from me. Take it from me. We are having struggles. We are having shortages of medicines in the in the in the hospitals and these medicines are not cheap out there. And I am feeling I mean for me when I went to buy just when I went to buy to buy everything that I was buying you know I spent 1,000 1,000 1,000 the 400 and the 30 1,000 430 that's what I I spent with that with that that it's in the car yeah there is it anyway I paid that much now you can imagine if I spent 1,000 1,400 who how many people can spend that money for them you know to survive COVID how many people how many of our people I'm also wondering those who are in the hospitals I'm also wondering if they are really getting all the medicines because clearly the hospital facilities are stressed and therefore we need to take care we need to take precautions we need to take precautions so yes I came back because my my my oxygen situation was not bad and that's how I came back home at home we have isolated ourselves myself and my wife we have isolated ourselves because even if my wife has not tested it is clear she has it she has a little bit of a throat and yeah of course she's not she's not bad and everything but you know just to to protect ourselves so we are we have isolated ourselves and we are taking all the medications that she was prescribed to us then yeah so that's how that's how come I am I am I am home how am I feeling right now you know the feeling of COVID is very strange you know you you feel the body I'm feeling the body really that weak weak and aching you know right now I have a neck I can't twist too much like this I have to bend like this it's it's just it's just it's just something else it's just something else and it's it's painful it's it's painful the body pains the body pains trust me you wouldn't want to go through this experience then you are feeling this heat like you are constantly being you know grilled inside you there is a fever you feel like you are sweating and yet you are cold you know not the kind of feeling that we get with Malaria because that one you don't get the body aching me I'm feeling the body aching even when I'm sitting here I'm feeling the body aching I can feel my entire body aching you know constantly aching and when you sleep you can't sleep you just can't sleep I couldn't sleep before until I took some medicine when I took some medicine that's when I slept today the whole day I fell to sleep I was trying to sleep but I just couldn't sleep then my nose it's constantly feeling you know that irritating feeling in the Sino in the Sino's that continues you know you are feeling like he is chilling in your in your mouth in your nose then in the mouth you feel like like you have you took acid and then your mouth is just dry like your cells have died kind of it's not a nice feeling at all please if you can try to avoid it you are better off than going through this experience I'm sitting here doing this because I want to make this honest appeal that please let us not approach this COVID-19 with you know an attitude that it's it's something that we you know it's just a by the way thing look today how many people have died yeah I'm lucky I'm sitting here talking to you but today as we speak how many people have died and even if we go back how many people have we lost we have lost a number of people this is very serious I thank God that I'm sitting here talking to you but then COVID also has got this strange behavior whereby one moment you are okay the next moment you are gone you know the next moment you are gone so please please let's try to take the precautions necessary this is this is very very serious what are the challenges what are the challenges number one challenge I see is the attitude a lot of people still are not well sensitized on COVID-19 we are still looking at it as just one of issues a by the way story a lot of people are still working around with masks without masks and even those that are putting on masks sometimes they're just putting the mask on your their mouth with their nose left exposed please when you're putting on a mask make sure the mask make sure the mask make sure the mask is on top of your of your mouth like that cover your mask they make sure your mask is like that don't let your nose be exposed a lot of people you find that they are wearing a mask and then it is like that you are not protected like this you are not protected make sure your mask covers your nose up to the chin please please let us protect ourselves this is a battle that we need to fight and we need to win this before it wipes us or out the other issue is the politics unfortunately in this country we tend to politicize everything there are those that think that no the government is trying to play around and then those in government as well you know they are also have they also have a bad attitude they're not setting a good example they're not setting a good example because we have seen particularly this issue of gathering people we have seen the people in government they are in the forefront gathering people in different areas in the name of political campaigns and the so-called road shows to intimidate their opponents the opposition have also not done very well because some of the opposition are also doing the same my appeal is that please much as we are in the campaign period can we try to put the lives of our our fellow brothers and sisters first before our ambitions you know our political ambitions let us try to see if we can protect the people that are that we want to save actually yesterday when I went to Levy one of the ladies I found who was not good actually terrible not good she was sitting on the wheelchair and she was struggling you know to to breathe they were looking for oxygen there was no oxygen one of these ladies I remembered I recognized that she's one of the ladies that attended one of the meetings that I had in one of the compounds I don't want to mention the compound but in one of the compounds this lady was part of the people that attended that meeting when I was at Levy yesterday I actually found this lady and she was really struggling she was sitting on the wheelchair she couldn't stand and they were looking for oxygen you know and I felt I felt bad I was I was with that lady in a meeting where I was where I had this meeting and and yet I found her there so it it hit me that really these political activities are actually spreading covid further and the statistics can actually back this theory because when covid started the statistics were not this high in the first wave even in the second wave the statistics were not that this high you can talk about now the coldness and everything we have had the cold before but the statistics were not this high how come this time around we have high statistics we have high statistics because there are events which are super spreaders which are going on right now for me this is my analysis because in the first wave we didn't have so many statistics in the second wave we didn't have so many statistics this third wave is hitting us where we are doing 3000 I strongly believe that these statistics as a result of the political activities currently going on and on this one I'm not blaming I'm not blaming a political party I think all of us as politicians need to take precautions to see how we can protect the lives of our people politicizing everything is not good it can be anyone it can be anyone if you look at the people that have gone today I mean I don't think they thought they would go because of covid so please let us try to you know minimize our politics let us look at some of the other means that we can use to campaign under these difficulty circumstances from my point of view I think government is doing well and I want to commend the civil servants because at the moment it's a civil servants who are running the show and I want to commend them that they are doing a very good job Dr. Malama and your team you're doing very well I'm actually I actually have a feeling that the civil servants have done a better job than the politicians because some of the politicians took covid as one of the political platform to sell themselves and they were bringing in all sorts of unnecessary issues but this time around the the the these civil servants they are approaching matters with a right attitude and the professionalism I think they must be really commended I really feel like sometimes I feel like maybe we don't need the politicians you know look at Dr. Malama when he's issuing the statements he's on point his explanation is thorough look at the statement that came from Dr. Mitty his statement was thorough on point everything is being handled well in a professional manner and like when we had these politicians you know bringing in their politics so for me I am saying congratulations to the civil servants you are doing very well and I think many times it's us the politicians who distribute you can do a better job but as politicians come in to mess you up this has for me have proved by the way the civil servants have handled these matters I think they have done they have done very well politicians sometimes we can be very misleading so the moment is doing well I commend them they have employed the 700 700 more health workers but the issue that is of my concern is the motivation on the health workers health workers need to be motivated I saw it I saw the stress on their faces I saw the risk in that you know they're in this environment where they have about 20 people who they have to attend to and they have to touch them they have to take their BP they have to you know take their blood they have to swab them there is so much contacts and they are on their feet from the time that they start their shift up to the time that they end their shift throughout there is no time for sleeping there is no time for sleeping for them through and through they have to wake so surely this is this is very dangerous this is very dangerous and I think a government can do something presented galungu you are still there you are still the Republican president I think you can come in and see how we can you know incentivize these health workers let us motivate them it is not good that at this point in time when health workers are sacrificing themselves like this and we are busy quarreling with them creating disputes you know and sometimes you know I was not very happy with one of the statements that came from one of the civil servants on behalf of government I think we need to be humble we need to take these people with kindness and generosity graciousness so that at least we can motivate them pretty much this is what I wanted to to share if you if you feel if you I wish I wish this this feeling can be projected I wish it can be project I wish it could be seen it's not a nice feeling right now I don't know I don't know if I will sleep you know it's just something else you want you're feeling cold you want to cover but then you're feeling hot and then your body is hacking you have taken this medicine but still the body still hacking and you don't know when it's gonna stop you don't know when it's gonna stop today I'm feeling like am I better than I was yesterday I can't tell because the body still aching and I don't know how long it's gonna take for me feeling like this and there's also the fear that you know I'm feeling like this it could get worse or it could get better so prevention is better than cure I know it's not easy I've been trying to mask up and so on and so forth but certainly there are times when I have been careless especially when people come to say let's take a picture you know and they ask you to remove the mask you know that is not a very good experience unfortunately you are scared to say no let me I can't remove the mask because you're scared of people looking at you like you you're being rude it's a difficult situation that's why I will really try as much as possible to find other means of reaching out to people in my bid for the position of mayor instead of instead of going out there going round risking myself and risking other people's lives so that is the situation my brothers and sisters I just thought that I could emphasize this point please mask up sanitize as much as you can wash your hands make sure you maintain social distance and only if you have to get out of your home otherwise stay home I really insist otherwise stay home avoid these political activities that are going on avoid them these events I strongly believe that they are contributing to the high numbers that we are having to my fellow politicians I say please can we find other means of reaching out to people other than you know these super spreaders you know events I know somebody somebody spoke about Soweto and bus stations you know look but I don't think that is a good argument to say no in the markets how come in the markets we are allowing people how come in the bus station we're allowing people but then we are stopping rallies and the and other political events I don't know how it sorts out the problem because there is because we are we are allowing people to gather in the markets I don't know how it helps us to say since we are allowing people in the markets later also let also the politicians continue a business as usual I don't know how that helps if it doesn't make things worse and I think what we are looking at is reducing the the risk so if we Soweto is is is gathering people and other markets and bus stations are gathering people should we increase the risk by creating some other activities again that will you know boost the spread of COVID I think we need to be reasonable I think what we should be looking at is say okay let's let's see stop this the the the political activities and not stop but find you know find a way of doing it and then creates suggest other measures that can be taken in the markets and bus station instead of creating other events as well just because the markets and bus stations are crowded I would rather we look for solutions for the markets and the and the bus stations and my suggestion is that if you are going to the market if you are selling at the market please mask up and mask up properly and sanitize as often as possible especially after receiving money when you receive money you count money please sanitize because money is one of you know the modes that can spread COVID-19 otherwise thank you very much for watching let me take a rest and I hope what I've shared will help out someone there thank you and good night


So, when I see what's happening and has happened on a regular basis to boogie2988, it becomes more and more glaringly clear that one of the primary issues with cancel culture on YouTube is that people have a major problem distinguishing the difference between someone being a flawed person and being a bad person. What is up everybody? This is Chris from the Rewired Soul where we talk about the problem but focus on the solution. And if you're new to my channel, what I try to do is take different topics going on in the YouTube community, try to see what lessons we can learn from them to improve our own mental and emotional well-being. So if you're into that stuff, make sure you subscribe and ring that notification bell. And before I get started, for those of you who don't know, I have a podcast called A Different Lens and I just put up an episode yesterday that's called In Defense of YouTube Drama Channels and Commentary Channels. And I think it's really relevant to this video. So I will link that down in the description, down in the pinned comment below, alright?  So real quick disclaimer, first one is I do not personally know boogie. Second one is I am not a licensed therapist or psychologist. My qualifications, I am a certified life coach. I am almost done with my certified alcohol and drug counselor licensing. I worked in a drug and alcohol treatment center for a little over three years. We were a dual diagnosis facility. So we worked with people with addictions as well as mental illnesses. So I have literally worked with thousands, alright? That's not an exaggeration. Thousands of people who are adult survivors of childhood abuse. And that's what we're going to be talking about today when it comes to boogie2988. Alright? So my name is, I am also the author of a new book called Canceled, Inside YouTube Canceled Culture. The ebook is available for free at my website, it will be linked down below until the end of the month. If you want to check that out and get a little bit behind the curtain, look at what some YouTubers go through, what the community is like and all that kind of stuff. So anyways, check that out. So anyways, long story short and there will be some links down below if you want to get the full in-depth view of what's going on because there's way too much going on for me to cover in one video. But anyways, boogie2988, he's a very large creator on this platform. He has over four, I think over four and a half million subscribers. He blew up with his alternate ego Francis making those videos. I think that's how I was honestly first introduced to him as well. But yeah, there are a lot of people out there who are trying to make the case that boogie2988 is a bad person. And again, we're going to be talking about the difference between a bad person and a flawed person because I think we get those mixed up a little bit. So I've been working on how I'm going to do this video for a while, but a friend showed me this right here, which is the Reddit boogie2988 mega thread. And look how long this is. All right, I just want you to pay attention to that. And then a new video came out from Christopher Tom. He's a great kid. I've actually talked to him before. So no shade towards Christopher Tom. But anyways, he just put up a video that's about an hour long. He refers to a lot of things in that Reddit thread. But here's the thing, you guys, like I just want you to sit back and think about how much effort went into that Reddit thread, how much effort went into Christopher Tom's video. Like when you see this, you would honestly think that these people are uncovering like the truth about what actually happened to Jeffrey Epstein. But all they're doing in reality is making the case that in their opinion, boogie2988 is a bad person. I want you guys to think about that for a second. So as we move forward, if you don't learn anything else from this video, again, I want you to learn how to distinguish the difference between a flawed person and a bad person. All right. So I want you to honestly ask yourself, if you think boogie2988 is a flawed person or a bad person. So recently ReviewTechUSA made an excellent video about boogie and his situation and he gives advice to boogie. And ReviewTechUSA, he gives boogie some great advice saying, yo, dude, just ignore it.   And I absolutely agree. But here's the thing. I believe because of what boogie2988 has been through, that's a lot easier said than done. So I highly recommend that you guys check out this article from the mighty of people sharing their experience about what it's like to be a survivor of childhood abuse. So as I go through this, ask yourself, do any of these sound like boogie in decisiveness? It feels like every choice I make is wrong. Even if I choose the option I'm told to take, I become apologetic over everything. If someone doesn't text back, I'll believe they're upset with me and I'll apologize. If I ask for something and annoy them, I'll apologize. Everything becomes a situation where I feel like I'm to blame. I avoid saying anything that others might not agree with, which means I'm never being myself, blaming myself for everything. I have to fight the urge to beat myself up constantly. I always feel like I'm doing everything wrong. It's very hard to convince me I am good at something. I'm very defensive, which can come across cold or nasty. I also portray quite a lot of negativity, which seems to be my barrier so I don't get hurt. And lastly, I find myself always explaining my every move. I explain why I bought something, why I did what I did, etc. I feel like people think I'm lying to them so I owe them a detailed explanation. Also feeling as though, if I say no to someone, they'll hate me. So even if I'm inconveniencing myself, I'll say yes. So again, going back to ReviewTechUSA's advice for Bogey to just ignore it and quit apologizing and quit explaining himself, I just want you guys to develop some empathy and realize that for survivors of childhood abuse, it's not that easy. Now is this an excuse? Absolutely not. But it's a reason and I really hope like more people would give Bogey some credit. Like listen, listen very carefully. I have worked with so many people who struggle with addiction, who struggle with mental illness, who are survivors of abuse. And I have met so many people who basically tell the entire world, here's what happened to me, you have to deal with it, right? And I have never heard those words come out of Bogey's mouth. Bogey is putting effort in to try and be a better person. Now, if that's good enough for you or not, I don't know. But the reality is nobody can deny that he's remorseful. And I just, I don't know if it's like maybe you haven't met, not you specifically, but people who are lacking this empathy towards Bogey haven't met people who are just like, well, I'm an addict. So I just can't stop drinking or using. And by the way, I'm a recovering addict for those who didn't know I've been clean for seven years. But I've met so many people who are like, oh, well, I'm a PTSD survivor. So you just got to deal with what I go through or I've met with people who have borderline personality disorder and say, I have angry outburst. You need to deal with it, right? Bogey has never said any of those things. So again, while it's not an excuse for his flawed characteristics, it's a reason and I do not think that makes Bogey 2988 a bad person. So from what Bogey tells us, it sounds like he's putting in quite a bit of work. He talks about working with a therapist. He talks about taking medications. So as somebody who is very passionate about mental health and education and awareness, I'm really on the fence about how Bogey conducts himself like on Twitter. So he is very, very open and honest. And on one hand, I look at that and it worries me because I know he has such a large audience and I wonder if he triggers anybody. You know what I mean? But on the other hand, I see him being so open and vulnerable as being inspirational and this kind of like hope for other people. I am not going to lie to you at all. All right? Like I've been through some stuff, but I look at a man like Bogey and see him talk about what he went through, see about what he's currently going through. I'm like, damn, dude, if this guy can wake up each day and put in the work, I can do it too. So that's where I'm kind of on the fence about it. So again, lastly, I'm not a therapist. I'm not a psychologist. I do not personally know Bogey 2988. But if Bogey was a friend of mine, if like one of my best friends was Bogey or dealing with what Bogey's dealing with, I would try to convince him to go to an extended inpatient mental health treatment program. All right? And this is purely because sometimes we just need to take a break. Sometimes we need to get away from everything. Friends, family, work, all right? And just 100% focus on ourselves. Like sometimes we're just so caught up in the hustle and bustle of everyday life that we don't even have a chance to really work on ourselves because we're still in it, right? Inpatient treatment, much like the drug and alcohol rehab center that I worked at, like it helps people get away from their environment and have more time to get this clarity of what to do transitioning back into life. So like I said, if Bogey was one of my friends, I would try to convince him to do some inpatient treatment. But yeah, lastly, one more time, for those of you who didn't hear it in the back, we need to really start distinguishing the difference between a flawed person and a bad person, all right? So don't forget, check out the podcast that I posted yesterday in defense of drama channels on YouTube and commentary channels on YouTube and also free versions of my book Canceled Inside YouTube Cancel Culture is available until the end of the month. That is all linked down in the description down in the pinned comment below. But anyways, that's all I got for this video. If you like this video, please give it a thumbs up. If you're new, make sure you subscribe and ring that notification bell and a huge, huge thank you to everybody supporting the channel over on Patreon. You are all amazing and a thank you to everybody who supports the channel in other ways by buying my books, merch, all that other kind of cool stuff. All right, thanks again for watching. I'll see you next time.