Hello, friends and subscribers. Welcome back to my YouTube channel. This is Daniel Rosal as usual, bringing you this video today from Jerusalem. So I'm doing a few videos lately about the Irish reaction to Israel. A lot of it is quite hostile and people have pointed out. There is also pockets of support for Israel in Ireland. And one of the most active Twitter users in the Irish Twitter sphere speaking out on behalf of Israel is a gentleman that we have on here today. His name is Kiron Orahalig. Kiron, thank you very much for for coming on and being being the stand up pro-Israel person in Ireland for today. One of many. So let's maybe kind of just start there because you say one of many and the perception from Israel, as I'm sure you know, is that it's very, very anti. But I've heard the theory for quite a while that there is more pro-Israel support or people who are sort of more neutral than meets the eye. What do you have to say about that? It's definitely more than you see on social media. I would understand anybody looking at Irish Twitter thinking that the vast majority of Irish people were very anti-Israel. But, you know, the opinion polls don't really bear that out. There was one opinion poll recently from the Sunday Independent that unfortunately I don't have the exact figures anymore, but now behind the paywall. I think it was something like, OK, it was 51% said the favored Palestine or Palestinians and it was only about 10% favored Israel or supported Israel in this conflict. But that left something like what, 39% who were quite nuanced in their view and to the point of view that they didn't really feel like supporting either side. And that same opinion poll also showed that 66% of Irish people support Hamas being prescribed as a terrorist organization. Unsurprisingly enough, even the majority of Shinfelns support Hamas being prescribed as a terrorist organization. So you don't see that coming out on Twitter. You know, at best you would see particularly from politicians like people from people from people before profit. If they they probably won't condemn Hamas at all. And to do its very, very kind of perfunctory and fleeting. So I think people's views are somewhat more nuanced than social media would want to believe. I think it's important to remember that the kind of people who come onto Twitter for both sides, from both sides of the from both perspectives, including the people who are, let's say, more pro-Israel or probably more towards the margins in their in their viewpoints than the average person might be. That's in. Yes, that's a very good point. Actually, you remind me of another thing I wanted to say. A few universities here have what's the student unions in certain in some universities have held referendums in the last few years and voted for BDS, devoted to Bicol-Israel and it's absolutely no effect whatsoever. Because it's not within their remit to decide the university's purchasing policy. But when these referendums are held, OK, they might be passed by 60 or 70 percent of the voters, but the voters are maybe only eight to 10 percent of the entire student body. So 90 percent plus of the students. You know, the students would tend to be the most angry. I think the most inclined to take a black and white view of a particular viewpoint and 90 percent of the student body just are bothered enough to vote on this particular issue. So, Kiran, speaking about the whole kind of Israel conflict, and there there was a great documentary that came out of years ago from an Irish guy called Nicky Larkin called 40 Sades of Grey. But I think sums sums it up really well that it's really not there's a conflict where there's definitely some degree of wrong doing on both sides, and it's not black and white. And neither side is either the angel or the devil. So what's your stance on kind of broadly speaking? What's what's your take on the whole the whole conflict and what we're seeing going on now with with the Gaza conflict? I would tend to put it in the same context as various other. Border disputes or, you know, conflicts between different ethnicities and nationalities that finally came to a kind of a crisis in the late 1940s. You know, you had all across Eastern Europe, you had borders being withdrawn, people moving whether by choice or being forced to move. There was it was a drive towards creating nation states that were far more ethically homogeneous. So I think Polo meant from being 55 percent Polish to 95 percent Polish Ukrainians moved from the southeastern Poland into Ukraine or maybe the border was not pretty sure. But anyway, you basically had a lot of stuff going on where people were just moving around or being forced to move. And you also had India and Pakistan, of course. You had, you know, when India was partitioned, Muslims moved to the new Pakistan state. Where there was East Pakistan and West Pakistan, Sikhs and Hindus moved to India. They were refugees and like the Poles and the Ukrainians and the Romanian and the Hungarians, they moved to the new place, they settled down and by and large, nobody considered them to be refugees now. In the context of the issue of the Palestine issue. OK, yeah, six or seven hundred thousand Palestinians were displaced. Some fled, some were told to go by their leaders because the leaders felt that the invading armies, the invading Arab armies were just wiped out the Jews and then the Palestinians could come back. But we have to also remember that. There are I think something like nine hundred thousand Jewish refugees were forced to leave our own Islamic countries and they tend to be forgotten in all this. And they most of them, I think, moved to Israel, where they now settle down and nobody considers them to be refugees. So like taking this in the context of Polish people forced to move, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Romanians, Indian, Hindus, Pakistani, Muslims, Jews, fleeing Arab countries. Only the Palestinians are still considered to be refugees. Only other people moved to their new country. It wasn't just, it wasn't fair. They lost a lot of property and land and whatever. But they moved and nobody considers them now to be refugees. So that's one way in which I would look at it, that only the Palestinians seem to inherit this state of being refugee from generation to generation. And I find myself wondering about that. Why is what's interesting, Kieron, from what you're saying, is that you see parallels between this conflict here in Israel and border conflicts you set in Europe and in different parts of the world. But you don't draw a parallel between Ireland's experience of British colonialism, which is what's most commonly cited as the reason for pro-Palestinian sympathies in Ireland. So why is it that you don't see that as being applicable in this case? I see no parallels at all. For one thing, Irish nationalism and even the IRA, even though they were, they were not genocidal.  They never wanted to wipe out all Protestants in Northern Ireland. And that's just the most extreme version of Irish nationalism. Irish nationalism was actually quite constitutional. And it got a state. It settled down trying to make the best of the state. And it didn't. I think there are some of the laws where maybe honest and pathetic towards Protestant minority, but there are no specifically anti-Proliacan laws. There are no laws specifically radiating Protestants to secondary states. I mean, definitely, there are laws that support the Catholic position a bit too much. But there was nothing in comparison to the kind of laws, you know, the Demi-States laws that we have seen in Islamic countries oppressing Jews and Muslims, just like Jews and Christians. So I don't really see any parallels. I think that Palestinian nationalism is a quite different, quite different thing. So, Kiron, I'm just interested in how you went about kind of forming your viewpoints about Israel and becoming informed about this conflict. You mentioned that you were over here on a visit in 2019, but how did you sort of get interested in this in this conflict and get informed about what's happening here? I suppose it goes back to when I was a school, a school we did a lot of at the Holocaust. It was covered a lot in the curriculum. And I was struck by how there was nobody to speak for the Jews. They didn't have their own state. There was nobody to sit at international conferences or at the League of Nations to tumble tables and saying, this can't be happening, this is wrong. So they were just left on their own. And, you know, I can see parallels today with the unfortunate Kurds or the Rohingya in Myanmar or even those African ethnic groups in Darfur who were currently being slaughtered by Arab militias and nobody is paying any attention at all. You really need, every ethnic group really needs to have their own state. And it's also the kind of a recognition thing. If you have your own state, then suddenly you become a more substantial thing, like you're in the Olympics, you're playing other nations in soccer or basketball, whatever you're in your vision.  So people can relate to you if somebody attacks Switzerland or Sweden or Ireland or whatever, people will be able to point to that straight away and say, oh, yeah, that's there, you know, they're on the map. Whereas the Kurds aren't on the map. They're just a kind of a blob in southeastern Turkey and northern Syria, northeastern Iraq. People, people watching this would say, well, the Palestinians also deserve self determination and to have their own state. What would you, what do you think about that? Well, they were offered their own state on numerous occasions. In the late 1940s, they could have had it. There are various occasions. I think it was in 2008, I think, was it Ehud Almert or Ehud Barak? I think it was Ehud Almert offered them pretty much all of the West Bank and even even was offering a little bit extra so that the Palestinians in both areas could go back and say, we've got the equivalent area of the West Bank. And I mean, in fairness, they do have, you know, small, but they do have the Gaza Strip already. And what are they doing with it? They're just using it to attack Israel. Hamas is not interested in the well-being of the Gaza people. Hamas is only interested in destroying Israel. So they, I would argue that they already have a portion of a state and they're not making much of it. They're not, okay, I don't, the ordinary Gazans don't really have much choice in terms of who's ruling them. But their leaders are not interested in the betterment of the Gazan people. It's on a stage that for the improvement of the lives of Gazan, it's a state that's being used as a weapon against Israel and only for that. A lot of people cure on in the pro-Israel community in Ireland would feel that the Irish media is very hostile towards Israel and has been for quite some time. But I see there's some new platforms coming on the scene like grip.ai which I gather is somewhat controversial. Would I just be interested as someone who's, let's say, more pro-Israel than perhaps your average person in Ireland? What do you think of the mainstream media, RTE, etc. as they're presenting the conflict and do you get your news from other sources or how do you feel about all this? I think the mainstream media in Ireland is generally hostile towards Israel. It's something we have to constantly chase them about in terms of inaccuracies that they put up and sometimes you wonder, sometimes they will correct things. Sometimes you wonder if the era was intentional or just unintentional. I mean, in the Irish, in New Zealand, the Irish time, the Irish independent opinion pieces that are anti-Israel, vastly have numbered ones that are pro-Israel. And it's a struggle to get a letter published that is pro-Israel. I've had a little bit of success recently and so have some of this. But on any given day, the letters will be 3 to 1 anti-Israel or 4 to 1 anti-Israel. And they might say, well, we're only reflecting, you know, the editors might say we're only affecting the volume of mail, that maybe the mail coming in is 3 to 1 anti-Israel or 4 to 1. But it's not really their role. It should not be given slightly more equal, more of a balance, despite the fact that things may be slanted in one particular way. Yeah, presenting both viewpoints kind of more equally. So, Kieran, just interest. I mean, you're quite vocal on Twitter in terms of your support for Israel. And as we both know, the Irish Twitter sphere can be pretty hostile to these type of viewpoints. So just wondering, firstly, how you kind of handle that. And secondly, in the more important sphere called real life with your friends and family, do you ever get into discussions about Israel? And what do they make of your online activism? As regards dealing with abuse on Twitter, I just, it makes me laugh a lot at the time because it's so formulaic. I mean, you get this kind of a world soap of genocide, apartheid, colonialism, all this stuff. It's like they've swallowed in a BDS leaflet and they're just regurgitating, regurgitating whole paragraphs from it. I mean, my family and friends know how I feel. They don't know so much about my online activism. I don't really go into that detail with them about it. But yeah, we do have arguments every now and again. I think the arguments are amical. They I think, by and large, they would be like a lot of Irish people. They would tend to see lots of Palestinians dying. So therefore, Palestinians are the underdogs. Therefore, Palestinians are the good guys. And when we get down to that kind of level of argument, I know the obvious retort is, well, would you be happier if more Israelis just had the good grace to just drop dead? And even up a score? So in fairness, I'm the one who's read all the books and I have all the facts at hand, whereas David, you're just kind of reacting to the latest story. So it's I have to, what am I trying to say? I have to kind of not just not to give them a blizzard of facts because I think that might be just too much and maybe they might actually resent being, you know, bombarded with all this stuff. I try to aim it more at the heart and say, well, you know, what do you think Israel should do? And also, actually, one one thing and it's something I keep banging on about the the story of the Jewish refugees from Arab and Islamic countries that tend not to get told. And when people hear that to realise, OK, you know, there is more to this story than one side, you know, there wasn't only, there wasn't just one bunch of refugees. That's something you have to keep reminding people of. But by and large, I mean, you say the arguments, we have, we have arguments, but the arguments don't get hostile. And going back to going back to 2019, and I mentioned when I told people I was going to Israel, 99 percent of the responses were positive and curious. There's one guy at work, one colleague said, tell them to get the effort of Palestine. I'm fair enough, I didn't take the base. But the vast majority of people, friends and family were interested and they were interested when they came back and they wanted to know, do you see this, do you see that? What about this, what about that? And it wasn't, you know, there wasn't any hostility there. It was just genuine curiosity. Yeah, I had quite a number of people come over from Ireland when I got married here a few years ago and, you know, people who I think had never conceived of coming to Israel before. A lot of people had had a really good time, but one of my friends has really kind of fallen into that anti-Israel camp. And we did, I just want to say about falling out of France. I think it's an interesting question for folks. Maybe it's perhaps a little bit more personal when you're living in the middle of this conflict, but we did have something of a falling out because, you know, he's tweeting about Israel being genocidal and, you know, just ethnic cleansing and kind of all the stuff almost from Richard Boyd Barrett's little book or pamphlet, as you called it, you know, and I said, well, if you think I'm living in a genocidal country, why would you come and patronize the economy for, you know, when I got married? So I find there is kind of a red line, but most people are, you know, I think I'm very wary of echo chambers. And I think just having sort of healthy debate with the other side is useful as well. Something else that I've kind of observed on Twitter is that people seem to assume that either side is just, you know, 100 percent partisan, like a few people tweeting at me today with photos of dead, dead Gazans, you know, horrible photos that I'm sure you see as well. And they said, well, what do you make of that? And I think the implication is, you know, you guys are genocidal subhumans, and this is what you're looking for. So I tried to write back kind of a rational response that this is a war and nobody on the Israeli side is looking for dead pictures of dead children or dead children, but that this is what happens in an armed conflict, especially in the Gaza Strip that is chock full of people, etc. So there's definitely it's very polarized in the in the Twitter sphere. And that kind of, for instance, I remind people of the Allied bombing of Germany in 1945, like they say, all the Israeli's camp of armed gas, Israel is trying to commit genocide. And I know, of course, that's so horrible. But as I said, it is a war, a war that Israel didn't start. And, you know, the the Allies killed more people bombing Dresden in two nights in February 1945 than Israel has in several weeks of the war in Gaza. So, you know, it obviously isn't genocide. It is. It is a war, as you say. Unfortunately, people die, particularly when one of the combatants hides himself amongst the civilian population. And, crucially, nobody nobody applied the same standards or even today would apply the same standards to the Allies. Nobody would look back today and say, oh, the Allies can make a war crimes or the Allies shouldn't have both the head of the ceasefire. Nobody would ever say that today. So why are they applying this much higher standard to Israel?  And, you know, he's obviously just kind of a pinup hater of Israel. But something I'm always interested in is kind of thinking who's the opposite to that, right? I mean, he's a very marginal figure in Irish politics, but you have Sinn Fein, who are less marginal and, you know, potentially you're going to get a lot more votes in the next election. So, you know, when when we're looking in the doll and in the shanad for people who are really kind of standing up to the anti-Israel sentiment and taking on the likes of Merilio McDonald, Richard Boyd Barrett, Paul Murphy and all those kind of, let's say, agitators on the left. Do you think there is any kind of a pushback at the moment in the Iraqis? Not an awful lot. There's one senator of our senator, Nero Sonevan, who is pro-Israel and he's a very brave voice. Apart from that, I think there is an Iraqis Friends of Israel group, but I'm not really sure that they do an awful lot. They seem to be, they seem to spend a lot of time in the closet. I mean, you would find the main government leaders pushing back on some of the more extreme rhetoric. You know, Leo Veradkar and Miha Maret would tend to distance themselves from the more extreme rhetoric. And a few months ago, when there was a report from Amnesty International about accusing Israel of being an apartheid state, Miha Maret actually said that he wouldn't use that term and he didn't find the term helpful. So, you know, but still at the same time, he has issued some very harsh criticism of Israel's actions in Gaza. So, I mean, apart from Senator Nero Sonevan, there isn't really anybody you can point to and say that they are supportive or understanding of Israel's position. It's kind of, it's degrees of opposition. You know, Leo Veradkar and Miha Maret did very strongly condemn Hamas in the first few days after the October 7th attacks, but then very quickly moved into the usual, attacking Israel, kind of speeches and comments. And everyone again, they would say, oh, of course we condemn Hamas, but, but, but. So, yeah, there's not much there really, apart from Senator Nero Sonevan, there isn't really much in terms of pushback, unfortunately. From your experience, Karan, of knowing other folks, I presume you know people in the pro-Israel movement in Ireland or people who might share, you know, broadly speaking your viewpoint about this. What kind of people, you know, what does Irish support for Israel look like? Where does it come from? You know, is there any kind of common characteristics or demographic you can point to for this group? There really isn't. In the group, I mean, there's a wide variety of backgrounds and classes and ages and your different geographic locations around the country. It'll give me a lot of them are in Dublin, but then a lot of Irish people are in Dublin anyway. I don't know if a quarter of a population lives in Dublin. No, I can't think of any particular characteristics of what unites us all. So, Kiran, I've heard from a lot of people that there was this turning point in maybe sort of, perhaps even the 1970s when, you know, around the time when Israel was founded, that Ireland was actually kind of quite supportive as a whole of Israel. Were you around back then? Or, you know, have you heard that story as well? And can you tell me exactly when that turning point occurred in public sentiment? I was around then. I'm old enough to have vague memories of the young people of war in 1973. And I mean, I don't remember the exact conversations amongst parents and family, but I think I get a general sense that there was a kind of a nervousness about, you know, will Israel survive or will Israel be overrun? Because obviously for the first few days, Israel was caught completely unawares and the Egyptians were making major advances across the Sinai Peninsula. So I do remember those conversations. I think the Lebanon, the situation in Lebanon might have started being a turning point. There was one politician called Lenin. Oh my God, I can't even give his Russian name now. He was a Minister for Defence. Brian Lenin, we're Brian Lenin. You know, I'm talking about Brian Lenin, senior, not Brian Lenin, junior. Brian Lenin, senior was Minister for Defence back in the late 70s, early 80s. And the Irish Army where the Irish Army was in sort of Lebanon acting as a peacekeeping force, the unifilm. And he mentioned that as being a point when he started to kind of move away from being pro-Israel and more pro-Palestinian it was around that time that a lot of Irish soldiers were being shot by the South Lebanon Army and some of their proxies that were released ostensibly backed by Israel. So, and Tinky went there a few times and felt that he wasn't impressed by the behaviour of the Israeli Army. So that might be the turning point. But it was also the IRA. The IRA had close ties with the PLO and they would have started to agitate for Palestinianism and Palestinian nationalism. I mean, the Northern Ireland issue definitely has had its effects. I mean, it's kind of a chicken and egg situation in Northern Ireland. I'm not sure whether the Northern Ireland community was pro-Israel or the IRA and the Nationalists decided to be pro-Palestine or whether the IRA decided to be pro-Palestine and then the Protestant Union and the Israeli community decided to be pro-Israel. But that has had its effects as well. That would have changed some minds to be more anti-Israel. Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the peacekeepers as being a contributor. I've heard from a lot of people that's sort of the experience of unifilm people turn opinions. But I had a few conversations over the years here with peacekeepers who were deployed to not just unifilm, UNSO as well, which is another one of the UN missions and seemed to have quite a nuanced and rounded understanding of the conflict. I definitely didn't get the... I didn't form the impression that they were sort of overwhelmingly anti-Israel. So that interests me. But I guess, as you say, there's more than one factor play changing public opinion. It would be great to get those stories out. I don't mean necessarily identifying the people, but just to hear from them, because we're interested to hear what their view might be because they were upfront and close to the whole thing. Kieran, another sort of thing that comes up a lot here is this idea that Ireland is the most anti-Semitic country in Europe. And as you know, I'm a Jewish person who was born in Ireland and I certainly did encounter a couple of pockets of anti-Semitism. But I've made the point before that there is anti-X feeling in pretty much every country. And I personally disagree with this idea that Ireland is a country kind of drenched in anti-Semitism, which is the sort of opinion that a lot of people seem to be putting out there on Twitter. As someone who's living in Ireland, I'm not. What's your take on all this question? Well, as somebody who's not Jewish, I mean, I'm nervous about making any wild claims. I've seen some polls saying that 77% of people would be happy to have a Jewish person in the family and 90% would be happy to have a Jewish person as a colleague. But I still believe 20% who wouldn't like to have a Jewish person in the family and 10% who wouldn't be happy to have a Jewish person as a colleague. So a Jewish person coming to work in an Irish company, potentially one person in every 10, doesn't want to have to around. So it's not a comfortable position to be in. But what I want to take issue with is the idea that Ireland is the most anti-Semitic country in Europe. I don't think we are. I think levels of anti-Semitism here compared to even other Western European countries are actually fairly low. And then East European countries, anti-Semitism there really is quite high. So I'm not trying to gaslight anyone. I know I'm not Jewish, so I'm never going to experience the feeling of being the one Jewish person in an office or whatever. But it's just the specific claim that Ireland is the most anti-Semitic country in Europe. I would tend to contest that. I'm going to leave as well for people interested in learning more about this. A link in the description because I think you told me, Kiron, about some interesting survey that was done by the Anti-Defamation League, the ADL, and they kind of asked a few questions to try to gauge the level of anti-Semitism in a particular country. And they looked at Ireland's sort of overall rating on their barometer, whatever they call it. And it was relatively towards the lower end of Europe and actually Greece, which I think a lot of people be surprised. And I don't want to kind of just take pop shots at any one country, but came out a lot significantly higher than Ireland. So I think there's even data there to kind of contest that idea that Ireland is some kind of a hotbed of anti-Semitic sentiment I've highlighted Richard Boyd Barrett. People have told me he's marginal and I've said I agree, but I think he does make anti-Semitic discourse. So, you know, it certainly exists. But that is very different than saying that it's, you know, that's a viewpoint shared by a majority of Irish society. And anyway, that's my personal take on the matter. Yeah, I think Richard Boyd Barrett, if he has any self-critical faculties at all, he looked at the camera, he looked at that video from last weekend and realized that he just made a bit of a fool of himself.  It would be good to see more criticism, but to give me Hall-Martin credit, he did, and I don't think when he was presented with what Richard Boyd Barrett said, I got the feeling that he hadn't seen the tape, which is almost, people have said it's a bit Hitler-esque the way Boyd Barrett was ranting. But, you know, he did at least give some pushback, saying that that kind of rhetoric isn't helpful calling for an intifada. It's obviously a separate debate that I understand is very much top of mind in Ireland at the moment, as to what this new hate speech legislation would and would not cover. But he certainly skirted that question. All right, Kieran, so it was amazing to chat to you. You're very much a Twitter man from what I know about you, or ex as it's now being called. So people want to follow you on that platform. What's your what's your handle? It's a slightly unusual one. It's Wascurito. That's W-A-S-C-U-R-I-T-O. I won't bore you with the long description or long story, but how I came up with that. But that's it anyway. W-A-S-C-U-R-I-T-O. I'll put a link in the description. Kieran is interesting takes on Israel from Ireland. And I also see your bio also says that you are a Gweil Gore fan of the Irish language, or at least a partial one, as you'd say, as well as a vegan. And I'm sure you're many, many things beyond those two. Indeed, yes. Thanks so much, Kieran. I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and experience. And have a good evening over in Ireland.


Let me know when you leave surface, reach bottom. My name is Humberto Santiago. I am 40 years old, and I am from Toa Baja, Puerto Rico. And my job here on this mission is a diving supervisor.  He calls it his saltwater therapy. It's something that I love to do. And there's that saying, if you're afraid of dying, you're never going to really fully live, right? Green diver, move back to your tent straight up and down. Humberto was 11 when he got his dive certification. And he's a competitive spear fisherman. The ocean, yeah, it's his happy place. When I'm free diving, and I jump in, everything, all my troubles, anything could be happening in my life. When I'm in the water, there's nothing but the water. He was fortunate enough to turn his passion into a profession. So when I initially went to join the Army, because I already fluent in English and Spanish, I wanted to be a linguist. As I'm in there, I saw the diver thing. I was like, oh, no. I don't want to be a linguist, I want to be a diver. Santiago was the only Army student out of 10 to graduate dive school. He would go on to be an instructor at the Dive School in Panama City, Florida before he joined the seventh dive team in Hawaii. The soldiers in Hawaii on the seventh, they get the opportunity to travel the world, right? See different cultures. I always tell them, these are experiences that they'll be able to talk about later. We're going to go to his tracking suit. Just stay where you are, get ready to travel. Both divers get ready to travel. Yeah, Staff Sergeant Santiago was one of my phase two instructors. I didn't like him at the time of dive school, because he was always a pain to deal with. I never understood it. And then I got to the unit, he was a totally different person, completely different animal. Super helpful, incredibly wise. Staff Sergeant Santiago is amazing. He actually was one of my dive school instructors. I was thinking he was picking on me and being mean to me. But he was doing it for a reason. He was doing it because he wanted to see if this guy is going to be an asset to my team or if he's not. And if he's not, then I don't want him to be a diver. The soldiers that I train to send off to the units, I always, towards the end of the course, I'll tell them, hey, let's see you guys again, you know? And everything that happened in school and nothing's ever personal. If this is all, there's a purpose behind everything. Divers, understand job? Yeah. You want to make this dive? Yeah. You know your appease. Our job is innately dangerous. It is underwater. It is not an environment that we are adept to survive in. There's only so much that the supervisor can do. They have to take care of themselves down there. It doesn't matter what I tell them on the surface. It doesn't matter. You're pretty much on your own underwater. Grab a line full of signals. Move back to your tank set up and down. I understand. So with these dives, we're doing a planned surface of compression. We're emitting required decompression in the water and opting it to do it inside the chamber. So there's only a limited amount of time, as you guys observe, right? Once they start coming up, it's a pretty fast move and everybody's moving pretty quick. The seventh dive team partners with the Defense POWMIA Accounting Agency. This trip, they're searching for missing crew members from a helicopter that crashed off the coast of Nha Trong, Vietnam, in 1971. This mission is uniquely special for him. It brought me back to where my dad served. He served in Vietnam. And so I was here and kind of like, I was here. He was here. He was pretty close to where we are right now. To me, it's very important because I want to help fulfill our nation's promise. One time, I looked down where the rinsing stations were and I saw the people dredging. These are like young people. They weren't even born when these people died. And they're here trying to find them. They're brothers. You join the military and it's a brotherhood. It doesn't matter what service you go. There's a promise and we're going to find you. Santiago has found the perfect marriage of passion and purpose. It's a career of service that also fuels his soul. It's something that I love to do. The ocean has this energy that I just get from it. It's just peaceful. The ocean is a peaceful place.


There are different types of discrimination. Discrimination is illegal in the United States, but it still happens. It is important to report discrimination. Harassment. Harassment is treatment that is not wanted. It can be about race, color, religion, sex, including pregnancy, national origin, age, disability, or genetic information. Any kind of harassment is not legal. Age discrimination is firing or not hiring someone if they are over 40 years old. People cannot lose their jobs if they are too old or too young. Disability discrimination is the unequal treatment of a person because of a disability. A workplace must treat a person with a disability equally. National origin discrimination is discrimination against someone who was not born in the United States. People from other countries are to be treated equally. Pregnancy discrimination is when pregnant people are fired, not hired, or otherwise discriminated against because of their pregnancy or their plan to become pregnant. A woman cannot lose her job if she is pregnant. Race discrimination is treating someone unfairly because he or she is of a certain race. Color discrimination is treating someone badly because of their skin color. Discrimination based on race or skin color is illegal. Religion discrimination is treating someone differently because of what they do or do not believe. People have the freedom to practice any religion or no religion.  People cannot discriminate against someone because of their sex. Sexual harassment is unwanted verbal or physical harassment. Words or actions about sex that are not wanted are not legal. The end.


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And the title of our sermon this morning is Consider Christ and Take Courage. Consider Christ and Take Courage. And we're in John chapter 15 verses 18 through 27. Consider Christ and Take Courage. As we've studied John 15 verses 1 through 17 together, our union with Christ is the blessed union. Amen? There are so many blessings, just grace from God to those who are in true union with the Lord Jesus Christ through repentant faith in Him. And the Lord teaches there that a genuine Christian abides in the true vine and the Lord Jesus Christ is the true vine. By faith in Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit, the true vine and the vine dresser produce in the branches lasting fruit to the glory of God the Father.  In our union with Christ, we have the promise of His abiding love. We have the reality of His abiding joy. We have the fullness of His sufficient revelation and we have the promise of effectual prayer. That being said, once someone is born again, once someone is united to Christ through repentant faith and they begin to live the Christian life then, seeking fruit to the glory of God, they take on an entirely different relationship with the world. When they start living in the reality of their appointment in verse 16, when they start living in the reality of their commission, their charge that the Lord gives them in verse 16, when they start preaching the gospel, contending earnestly for the faith, standing up for righteousness, communicating that reality, they are put in the crosshairs of this world and one of the three enemies in the Christian life and they become particular objects of this world's zealous hatred. Now as the Lord states this reality and exhorts us to faith, that becomes His concern here in verses 18 through 27. Not only will disciples of the Lord be known for their love for one another, they'll also be known for and marked by the world's hatred for them. Despite the world's incessant and idolatrous proclamation of their counterfeit love, the world is marked by its hatred for the Lord and for His people. Hate in this passage repeated over and over again, and persecution will come as a result of that hate. Now we don't need anyone to tell us, right? This is a godless and god-hating world in which we live. This world, do you think about this world? This world has murdered, murdered literally hundreds of millions of human beings and that's not hyperbole, that's a reality, hundreds and millions, hundreds of millions of human beings. Our country alone, since passage of wicked laws, has murdered 60 million babies. Our country has abandoned the law of God. More than just abandoned the law of God, our country has rejected, rejected the law of God, rejected God's morality. Our country alone has forsaken marriage, God's institution. Our country alone has abandoned the family. In abandoning God's law, in abandoning God's wisdom, they leave themselves with no wisdom. They seek that wisdom which is from below, right, which is demonic and sensual. And in all of this, who is it that is persecuted? It's Christians. Who is it that everybody is unified in hating? It's Christians. Who do the laws seem to be against now? Christians. We're going to need courage as we face persecution. As this world gets worse and worse, as evil men and imposters grow worse and worse, we're going to need the courage that comes from faith. Courage is an expression of faith and trust in Christ. It's an expression of faith. Courage for the Christian is not heroism, some deed that you do in your own strength, your own willpower. That gives you the glory, right? But courage is faith, and that's how God gets the glory. As this world grows worse and worse and worse, we cannot compromise. We have to stand on the truth of God's word. We have to go, as it were, outside the camp to Him who bore our sin and join Him and bear His reproach in the eyes of this wicked world. No compromise. Just heard this week the example of Joel Hunter at Northland Church here who made the comment that he's never been in a persecuted community, made that comment next to the leader of the LGBTQ community who he was praising for her work, but he himself never been part of a persecuted community. That would be because he's not a part of the church. Doesn't take a stand for truth. That's compromise. In this world, you're not promised ease. We're not promised the likes of comfort. We're not going to go to heaven on flowery beds of ease. It's not going to happen for the Christian. You will face persecution. In this life, there will be tribulation. You will face persecution. You will face discouragement. You and I, as blood-bought believers, are going to have to stare down fear, fear of man. You're going to have to deal with laziness and sloth. And the Lord's exhortation here in John chapter 15 beginning in verse 18 is so that we do not stumble in this. Look at chapter 16 and look at verse 1. The Lord says, these things I have spoken to you that you should not be made to stumble. And then he lists what's going to happen. They're going to put you out of the synagogues.  And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor me. And these things I've told you that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning because I was with you. John chapter 16, down in verse 33, Lord exhorts us in the world, you will have tribulation. What it means there, but take courage because I have overcome the world, amen. We can take courage in him. We are to take courage in him. That's the Lord's concern here. In John chapter 15 verses 18 through 27, now as Christians, as you and I are the particular objects of this world's hatred, we need first on your notes to consider the Lord's example. Consider his example, the example of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is always the ultimate target of the world's hatred. Why? Why is that? John says in chapter 3 verse 19, this is the condemnation that the light has come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. That's why. Why did Cain murder his brother Abel in hate? John tells us because Cain's works were evil and his brother's works were righteous. In chapter 7 verse 7, the Lord says, the world hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil. That's why the world hates the Lord Jesus Christ. Now owing to that one fact, the world despises the Lord's authority. The world hates his holiness. The world hates his righteousness. The hate his justice. The hate his perfections. The hate his morality. The hate his word.  I hate everything to do with him owing to that one fact that everything the Lord Jesus Christ does in this world is to testify of them that their works are evil. The world hates the exclusivity of Christ. The world hates the sufficiency of the Lord Jesus Christ. The world hates the lordship of Christ. The world hates salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone. They hate the fact that they need mercy.   They hate atonement. They hate propitiation. All of that, all of that, cries out our works are evil and we need a Savior and they don't want to humble themselves to bring themselves to that point of crying that. This world hates it. Charles Spurgeon said this, no being was ever more lovely than the Savior. It would seem almost impossible not to have affection for him. Certainly at first sight it would seem far more difficult to hate him than to love him. And yet lovable as he was, yes, altogether lovely, no being so early met with hatred and no creature ever endured such a continual persecution as he had to suffer. He's no sooner ushered into the world than the sword of Herod is ready to cut him off and the innocence of Bethlehem by their dreadful massacre gave a sad foretaste of the sufferings which Christ would endure and of the hatred that men would pour upon his devoted head. From his first moment to the cross, save the temporary lull while he was a child, it seemed as if all the world were in league against him and all men sought to destroy him. In Luke chapter 4, if you think about this, the example of the Lord Jesus Christ, he goes to his hometown of Nazareth and in Luke chapter 4 in Nazareth, he preaches his first sermon. What was the response of the people? Listen to verse 28, his first sermon in his hometown, and so all those in the synagogue, when they heard these things, they were filled with wrath and they rose up and they thrust him out of the city and they led him to the brow of a hill on which their city was built that they might throw him down over the cliff. It was the world's assessment of the Lord's first sermon. In John chapter 5 verse 16, they sought to kill him. In John chapter 5, 18, they sought to kill him. In John chapter 7 verse 1, they sought to kill him. In John chapter 7 verse 30, they sought to kill him. In John chapter 8 verse 59, they took up stones to kill him. In John chapter 10 verse 31, they took up stones to kill him. In John chapter 10 verse 39, they sought to seize him to put him to death. In John 11 verse 53, they sought to put him to death, and the world that hates him would eventually carry out the ultimate act of hate against him. In John 18, they took him by law of the sands, and in John 19, they murdered him by hanging him on a cross. In making the connection, John would later say in 1 John chapter 3 verse 13, do not marvel my brothers if the world hates you. Why? Why is that? Let me give you three reasons from our text. The first is this, because you are hated in him. Why shouldn't we be shocked? Why shouldn't we marvel? If the world hates us, first reason, because you are hated by the world in him.  Now verse 18 here begins with a conditional statement. That conditional statement doesn't mean there's any question about what's going on here. That conditional statement points to an inevitable conclusion. The if in verse 18 of the conditional statement is clarified and concluded by verse 19. You can settle it. In verse 19, if you're in Christ, the world hates you. If you're in Christ, the world hates you. The world here is referring to fallen humanity, all those children of wrath, those sons of disobedience under the sway of the wicked one.  It's amazing to me, thinking of 1 Peter chapter 4, how many professing Christians participate in those things? Drinking parties, they call it their liberty. They're shocked that you won't run with them in those floods of dissipation.  Do you see? Proverbs chapter 29 verse 27 says this, He who is upright in the way is an abomination to the wicked. Now, often you'll engender hatred from the wicked just by walking into a room, right? The dirty jokes stop, the cursing stops, maybe the room just becomes quiet, is that what happened to you?  You expose them to judgment. You expose them to God's authority and they hate the Christian for it. Listen, that's just the beginning. That's just the beginning.  Remember, a little while ago, open air preaching downtown Orlando with a lake and experienced such crazed hostility just over the reading of God's word. Turn with me to 1 Corinthians chapter 6. 1 Corinthians chapter 6, and I just remember that as being, shouldn't be surprised, but I was shocked at the hostility just from reading the word of God, very little exposition, just reading the word of God. And in 1 Corinthians chapter 6, when you come to verse 9, do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God, do not be deceived, neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexuals. At this point, there's yelling and screaming from the porta-potties. People are yelling and screaming from the crowd across the fence. I mean, the things are being yelled and thrown. Crazed hostility merely from reading the word of God. Paul here, the Holy Spirit, testifying of the world that their deeds are evil. And how does the world respond? They respond with hatred. Things will not inherit the kingdom of God.  And they ignore the grace of God in the message, right? In hate-filled animosity toward the word of God that rebukes them in their sin, they neglect to acknowledge the grace and mercy of God in verse 11, and such were some of you. But this is the offer that God holds out in His grace. You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. What grace. It will listen to verse 11. You can preach it in as much love. You can wrap it in as much velvet. You can lay it on a pillow. They're going to hate it. It just doesn't matter.  Homosexuality is evil. Sodomy is evil. Drunkenness is evil. Adultery is evil. Fornication is evil. Covetousness is evil.   Don't be deceived.  Many people over the course of their lives have erected vast and complex defense systems, defense mechanisms to shield them from any rebuke like this. And when, like Christ, through the preaching of God's word, you begin to assault those defenses. You begin to chip away at those concrete barriers that they've put up around their heart.  They'll use their religion as a shield. All right, I go to church every Sunday. I give. I sing songs. I pray they'll use Christianity as a shield. I was raised in a Christian home, been a Christian all my life. I believe in Jesus Christ. They'll use their good works. They'll use their false commitment.  It's like the Pharisees. Those men who were obsessively religious in the first century were often the most hostile toward Christ and pressed for his demise, right, pressed to kill him. They're like whitewash tombs on the outside.  They hated Christ.   They're going to hate you. A.W. Tozer said this. Those first believers turned to Christ with the full understanding that they were espousing an unpopular cause that could cost them everything, that could cost them everything, including their lives. Shortly after Pentecost, some were jailed. Many lost all their earthly goods. Some were slain. Others were scattered abroad. They could have escaped all this by the simple expedient of denying their faith and turning back to the world. And this they steadfastly refused to do. Facing severe persecution, how do those believers make it? They considered Christ. They considered Christ. They considered his example. And they pressed on in faith, taking courage from his example. Hebrews chapter 12, verse 3, for consider him who endured such hostility from sinners against himself lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. That is a beautiful, beautiful passage. He is despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows acquainted with grief. We hid, as it were, our faces from him. He was despised and we did not esteem him. Second, you are separated or sanctified to him. Why does the world hate you? Why does the world despise you?  It's because, in verse 19, you are sanctified to him. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. And the Lord uses here in verse 19 the second conditional statement. Not unlike the first, but it's pointing to an inevitable conclusion. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Now notice he doesn't say, if you were in the world, right? He says, of the world. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. If you were still of the world, the world would love you. But you, if you're in Christ, by union with Christ, through repentant faith in him, because you are not of the world, the world hates you. It's a present reality. The world hates you. If you're in Christ, if you're in Christ, then Paul says he has delivered you from the power of darkness and has conveyed you into the kingdom of the Son of his love. Where you were once in darkness and death, he brought you into light and life. You are now joined to the vine, citizens of heaven. You've been born again. You've been given new life. You've been made a new creation.  You are separated from the world by new birth, right? You're separated from the world through regeneration, through faith in Christ, through genuine repentance, through right standing with God, through a new heart and a new spirit that dwells in you. You are separate from the world. You think differently from the world. You act differently from the world. You work differently than the world. You love differently than the world loves. You live differently than the world lives. You are dramatically different from the world, amen? Now why? Why? Because, verse 19, you are sanctified to him. You are set apart from the world, from your sin. You are set apart to Christ. He says in verse 19, I chose you out of the world.  This world hates, hates the sovereign, electing, foreknowing love of God. They claim that God loves everyone, claim that we're all God's children, right? This thought in verse 19, intimately connected to verse 16, where the Lord says, you did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain entirely according to his grace alone, entirely according to the good pleasure of his will. You've been elected. You've been foreloved, foreknown by God. You've been separated to him with a purpose. That purpose is fruit-bearing. You've been separated to him for fruit-seeking and fruit-bearing and gospel preaching, right?  When you've been called separated to him, you're going to share in his suffering. If you think about that, for the Christian, that's a cause for rejoicing, and we'll talk about that in a moment. That's a cause for rejoicing. We've been separated from this world to him. We're going to partake of his life. We're going to partake of his suffering, and in that, we're going to take joy. Think about that from the disciples, the example of the disciples in Acts chapter 5, right? The disciples get arrested. They're arrested. They're taken to the prison. They're beaten, and they went away. It says they're rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. Amen. That's the example, right? Hebrews chapter 11, verse 24 says this of Moses, listen, by faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt, for he looked forward to the reward. Others, the author of Hebrews goes on to say, were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned. They were sawn in two. They were tempted, were slain with a sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented. Of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. Why? Why? Why would they go through that? Many of you, when you came to Christ, you lost family. Some of you, when you came to Christ, you lost a husband. You lost a wife. Some of you even now don't have the same relationship with brothers and sisters and mothers and fathers and friends that you once had. When you came to Christ, there are some of you here who lost their job. When you came to Christ, you lost that quote, unquote, good reputation that you had with the world, and now you are the object of the world's scorn. You are the object of your friends, your former friends, those so-called friends. You're the object of their hatred. Why? Why would you do that, right? When you came to Christ, many of you counted the cost, and understanding exactly what that cost entailed, you persisted in following the Lord. You lost opportunity, maybe out of state, because you wanted to stay at a good church. You wanted to follow the Lord. You lost relationships because you shared the gospel. Hating their soul more than hating their scorn. Why? Why don't we do it? It's because Christ suffered for us. It's because Christ suffered for us. Go with me to Hebrews chapter 13. Hebrews chapter 13. Hebrews James Peter. Hebrews chapter 13. Look there with me at verse 10. Hebrews chapter 13 verse 10. Now the author of Hebrews is writing to hated, persecuted, fellow Jews who've left what has become the false religious system of Judaism in order to follow the Lord Jesus Christ. And he says in verse 10, listen, we have an altar from which those who serve the tabernacle have no right to eat. So the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin are burned outside the camp. Now those priests, the Old Testament we know from the sacrificial system, those priests who served in the tabernacle were ordinarily allowed to eat what remained of the sacrifices. They were allowed to eat that. However, one time a year on the day of atonement, they weren't allowed to eat the sin offering and the remains of those animals, the remains of that sacrifice were burned outside the camp. Now he uses this as a picture or as an analogy for the sacrifice of Christ for sin. Look at verse 12. Therefore, Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, he suffered outside the gate. Jesus, in order to atone for the sins of his people shed his own blood to set apart a people to himself. If you're in Christ, that's you and I. Those are believers who put their faith in him, who put their trust in him, who've turned from living for themselves and now live for him who died for them and gave himself for them, right? This is for those who have turned from sin to trust him alone. He did this as it were. He shed his own blood, sacrificed himself, as it were, outside the camp where he suffered, separated, separated outside the camp, outside of the world, so to speak, outside of the gate. He bore our sin. He bore our shame outside of the camp, outside the gate, apart from the world. Facing its scorn, facing its murderous, hateful hostility. He suffered and he died. He suffered and he died apart from worldly comforts, apart from worldly approval, apart from worldly security, apart from this world's seductions and systems. And listen, he died for you. He died for me. He did that, brother, sister, he did that for us in order to separate you with him, in order to separate you to himself. He did it willingly. He did that. He suffered outside the gate out of great love for his own. He did it sacrificially, not counting his own life dear to himself. He died to give us another home. He died to secure for us another destiny. He died to give us a hope. He died to redeem us, died to free us, died to save us, died to give us right standing with God, died to make us holy, died to make us accepted in the beloved. And the way that he died, the way that he suffered, right? And the reason that he died, cry out for a response from those who are his. It cries out for a response from those who are blood-bought in Christ. Verse 13, therefore, here's the response, therefore, let us go forth to him outside the camp bearing his reproach. What does it mean to be sanctified? What does it mean to be chosen out of the world, set apart to him? It means to go forth to him outside the camp bearing his reproach. It means to leave your comfort. It means to leave the life that you once lived. It means to leave your idolatry, leave your covetousness, leave living life for yourself, leave your self-interest, leave your self-indulgence, leave your selfishness, leave your security, leave behind the approval of men. It means to despise this world's systems, this world's seductions, and it means to go forth to him in the place of suffering outside the camp bearing his reproach. To be sanctified is to go out to him. We have to make a concerted effort to set aside worldly comforts to do that which is necessary, that which he has said is necessary. Why? Because verse 14, four, because here we have no continuing city. We live in the city of destruction, and it's time to get out. You haven't already done so? Get out, leave the city of destruction. We seek, verse 14, the city that is to come, the city of the living God, where Christ is. We seek that city which will last forever. We seek the one to come. Verse 15, therefore, by him, let us first, let us one, continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to his name, amen. Verse 16, secondly, and do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. The sacrifice of Christ was sufficient, fully, totally, completely sufficient. Therefore the sacrifice of Christ put an end to all sacrifices except these, the sacrifice of praise to God and the sacrifice of love to others. That includes preaching the gospel to lost people.   The world hates the way in which you show that love. When you preach the gospel, the world hates it. All this is an expression of faith. All this is done in faith. Moses did it, right? Moses did it in faith, choosing rather to suffer reflection with the people of God, than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, esteeming the reproach of Christ, greater riches than the treasures in Egypt. He went forth to him outside the camp, bearing his reproach, looking for the city that is to come. Jesus certainly did it. Look back at Hebrews chapter 12, and look at the Lord's example in verse 1. One page back, therefore, chapter 12 verse 1, we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the example of Lord Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith, who, for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame and a sat-down of the right hand of the throne of God. The people did it. The people did it. Turn back to Hebrews chapter 10, Hebrews chapter 10, and look down at verse 32. Our brothers and sisters in the first century did it, verse 32, but recall the former days in which after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings, partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated. For you had compassion on me in my chains and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. Therefore, do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you and brothers and sisters, you and I, we have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise for yet a little while, and he who is coming will come and will not tarry, and now that just shall live by faith. But if anyone draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him, but we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe in the saving of the soul.  He didn't die for your temporal security. He died for your eternal security. There's a mission that's been given. There's a work to do, right? There's a gospel to be preached. There are lost people who need to hear it. This should motivate us, right? The thought of what Jesus Christ has done, what he's accomplished, and the reason that he's done it, to redeem you and I to himself, should motivate us to move beyond worldly comforts to do that which is necessary. Why? Because we seek a city that is to come. What does this mean for you and I? What does it look like for you to go forth to him outside the camp? Consider that for a moment this morning. He has sanctified us to himself. Hebrews 13, we're to go forth to him. Let us go forth to him. Outside the camp, bearing his reproach. Let us count that far greater treasure than all the riches of Egypt. What does that mean? What certainly means witness. It means witness. It means bearing witness for the Lord Jesus Christ. It means evangelism. It means preaching the gospel of the kingdom to lost people so that they can be saved. It means going out of your comfort zone and preaching the gospel, right? That's what it means. What does it look like for you to go forth to him outside the camp? Bearing his reproach. Where does that reproach come from?  That's where that reproach comes from. Maybe going forth to him outside the camp means giving up your time, right? Giving up a few hours here or there. Means giving up your time. It means giving up your leisure. Maybe it means to you giving up Saturday mornings, right? It may mean giving up a well-manicured lawn. You can come to my house, you know that to be true statement. It means giving up those things that you have prioritized over that which is necessary. Going out to him, going forth to him, bearing his reproach, witnessing for Christ, you've been set apart to him and you've been set apart to him at an unimaginably high cost. We are to go forth to him outside the camp bearing his reproach. Maybe going forth to him outside the camp means having that uncomfortable conversation with a family member, with a friend, with a neighbor. Maybe that going forth to him outside the camp involves being faithful in group, being with the brothers, edifying them, encouraging them, loving them, holding them accountable, exhorting them, bearing their burdens, praying for them. Just encouraging them by your presence there, being with the brothers, loving them. Maybe going forth to him outside the camp, bearing his reproach means making the drive to be involved here. Many of you drive a long distance to come here. Maybe it means open air preaching. You haven't quite taken courage and confidence in Christ through faith to do that yet. Maybe that's it for you. Maybe it means following Pastor Mark to Guatemala City. Maybe it's planting a church in Honduras. Maybe it's laboring in the ministry here with your brothers and sisters, pursuing those who are weak, right, comforting the faint-hearted. Maybe it's doing something else with your money. Maybe it's setting aside your plans, your intentions, considering what the Lord would have you do. Maybe it's pursuing that brother or sister who's in sin. Maybe it's praying more, praying more. Maybe it's cutting off that worldly friend who is destroying you, that worldly friend who is influencing you. Go forth to him outside the camp, right? Go forth to him outside the camp. Bear his reproach. You and I are called by his name. Go forth to him outside the camp. Bear his reproach. Let's labor for the Lord, right? Let's preach the gospel to lost people. Let's turn Orlando over for the Lord Jesus Christ. Go out to him. Bear his reproach. Deny yourself.  Follow him. There are many. There have been many. There are today many for whom this means that they will give up their life, literally. There have been thousands upon thousands, the estimates actually reach into the millions of Christian martyrs. Sometimes the world can't sort out who's a real Christian and who's not. They're just killing them because they profess to be Christians. Let me ask you this question. What if the world doesn't hate you? What if the world doesn't hate you?  What if you bear no reproach? There are in this country millions of professing Christians who bear absolutely no reproach whatsoever for Christ. I've never been a part of a persecuted community before. Listen, a new relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ means a new relationship with the world. Secondly, you are sanctified in him. Third, on your notes. You are persecuted with him. You are persecuted with him. Look at verse 20. Back in John 15, verse 20, the Lord says, remember the word that I said to you, a servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.  Now he quotes this from chapter 13, verse 16. Just flip the page. Chapter 13, verse 16, or just a short time ago, in the same period of time, this is the upper room discourse, the Lord said in verse 16, most assuredly I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is he who sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. He says, remember, this is the first imperative of this passage. There is a command here. He's saying, be mindful of this fact. If they persecuted me, they'll also persecute you. Be mindful of this fact. Second Timothy, chapter 3, verse 12, Paul says, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. Now we're back in verse 20 to a couple of other conditional statements. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.  The argument's this. If they persecuted me, and many of them did, many of them did, they're going to persecute you also. It's a fact. Settle that in your heart and mind.  Now take faith in Christ, take courage, and act in faith, right? Settle in your heart and mind. You will be persecuted. You're going to face that. Settle it, right? Then he goes on to say, second conditional statement, if they obeyed me, and some of them did, they will obey you also. Praise the Lord. In other words, there will be fruitfulness to your ministry. Like he said in John, chapter 15, verse 16, 17, if you go out in prayer, praying to the Lord, there'll be fruitfulness in your life, in your ministry. If you obeyed me, if they obeyed me, some of them did, they will obey you also. In other words, people divide around the preaching of the Lord. People divide around the Lord's preaching in the same way they're going to divide around your preaching, if you're preaching the Lord's preaching. People divide around the preaching of the Lord's disciples in the same way they divide around the Lord's preaching. Look at 2 Corinthians chapter 2. 2 Corinthians chapter 2, Paul described this for us. 1 Corinthians chapter 2, and look down at verse 14. This is the way that Paul describes this. Paul says, now thanks be to God in verse 14, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of his knowledge in every place, for we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved, and among those who are perishing. In Christ, we are the fragrance of Christ to those who are perishing and to those who are being saved, right? To the one, we are the aroma of death leading to death. And to the other, the aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not, as so many, peddling the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as from God, we speak in the sight of God in Christ. Look at chapter 4. And look at verse 1, considering the preaching of the gospel, right? And the way that people are going to divide around that preaching. If they persecuted him, they're going to persecute you. They're going to persecute me. If they kept his word, there are going to be some that keep our word also. Look at chapter 4. Look at verse 1. Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we've already received mercy, we don't lose heart, but we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness or handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth, commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it's veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the God of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ, the Lord, and ourselves, your slaves, for Jesus' sake. For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure, this gospel treasure in clay pots, in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. Here's the hostility of the world. We are hard-pressed on every side, yet we're not crushed. We are perplexed, but we're not in despair, persecuted but not forsaken, struck down but not destroyed, always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. That's going outside the camp, right? That's going outside the camp. For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus' sake. That's going outside the camp. So that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So then, death is working in us, but life in you. And since we have the same spirit of faith according to what is written, I believed, therefore I spoke. We also believe and therefore speak, knowing that he who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, right? We look forward to the city that is to come. Moses look forward, Jesus look forward to the reward, and will present us with you for all things are for your sakes that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to a bound to the glory of God. Therefore, outside the camp, we don't lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day for our light affliction. Now he's speaking this to intensely persecuted Christians, and this light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory. While we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen, that city which is to come, the Lord Jesus Christ, for the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal. And we see these varied responses to the preaching of the Lord's disciples. One place where we see that is in the book of Acts. Look at Acts with me. Acts, turn to Acts chapter two. You have to settle this in your heart, in your mind. Lord Jesus Christ in verses 18 to 27, John 15, 18 to 27, concerned with the faith of his disciples, their faith and trust in him. They would consider his example and take courage in the ministry that they are undertaking in his name. We see this played out now, this ministry in the book of Acts. Look at Acts chapter two and drop down to verse 36. Verse 36, this is the preaching of Peter, the Pentecost. He says in verse 36, therefore, that all the house of Israel know assuredly that your deeds are evil, right? Peter is testifying of the world that his works are evil. But all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now look at their response, verse 37, when they had heard this, they were cut to the heart and they said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? And Peter said to them, repent, let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. You shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, for the promises to you and to your children and to all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call. Look at verse 41, then those who gladly received his word were baptized and that day about 3,000 souls were added to them. Look over to Acts chapter four. See a positive response, Acts chapter four? Look at verse one. Now as they spoke to the people, the priests, the captain of the temple and the Sadducees came upon them, being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead, and they laid hands on them and they put them in custody until the next day for it was already evening. However, many of those who heard the words believed and the number of men came to be about 5,000. Preaching the gospel, you're going to be arrested one moment and 5,000 added to the church, the next it seems, from the book of Acts. You see the diverse responses to the word of God being preached. Drop down to verse 13, chapter four verse 13. Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John and they perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled and they realized that they had been with Jesus. Seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it, but when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves saying, what shall we do to these men? For indeed that a notable miracle has been done through them is evident to all who dwell in Jerusalem and we cannot deny it. But so that it spreads no further among the people, let us severely threaten them that from now on they speak to no man in this name. So they called them, commanded them not to speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus, but Peter and John answered and said to them, whether it's right in the sight of God to listen to you, more than to God, you judge, for we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard. So when they had further threatened them, it means beat them, they let them go finding no way of punishing them because of the people since they all glorified God for what had been done. For the man was over 40 years old on whom this miracle of healing had been performed. Look at Acts chapter five, Acts chapter five and look down at verse 40. Here they're arrested again. Chapter five verse 40, they agreed with him and when they had called for the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus and they let them go. And so they departed from the presence of the council rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. And daily in the temple and in every house they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ. They had gone out to him. In chapter six, there were some who were obedient, others who were not. Stephen in chapter six is accused of blasphemy. Look at chapter seven and drop down to verse 51. Chapter seven verse 51, in Stephen preaching, he says to the Jews you stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears.  In other words, your deeds are evil. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the just one of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it. Now in verse 54, when they heard these things they were cut to the heart. That's the exact same response they gave Peter at Pentecost, right? And 3,000 that day were baptized and added to the church. Is that what it means here? Does it mean the same thing? No. When they heard these things, 54, they were cut to the heart and they gnashed at him with their teeth. He being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven, saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God and said, look, I see the heavens open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears and ran at him with one accord. And they cast him out of the city and stoned him. The witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he knelt down and he cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not charge them with this sin. When he had said this, he fell asleep. In chapter nine, that same Saul, verse one, is breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord. Went to the high priest and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus so that if he found any who are of the way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. The Lord tells us to remember these things. He commands us in John chapter 15, verse 20, remember the word that I said to you. A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.  We can look at the book of Acts, can't we? And we can see an example of brothers and sisters at that time who were sharing the gospel. And we can see the persecution that they faced. We see some turning to Christ and repentance and faith. And we see others hostile, angry, rushing at them with one accord, right? Stopping their ears, hostile, hostility, hatred. If you're in Christ, remember what the Lord said, you're going to face the same thing. Why? Why would you face that?  How much of that hostility are you going to face if you don't ever make it out of the camp? You're not going to, yeah. Let us go forth to him, amen. Let us go forth to him. One last place, just a few pages of the right. Look at 1 Peter chapter 4, 1 Peter chapter 4. The Lord says, remember, remember, remember the word that I said to you. A servant is not greater than his master. Let us go forth to him outside the camp, bearing his reproach. 1 Peter chapter 4 verse 1, therefore, therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also, brothers and sisters, arm yourselves also with the same mind. For he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer, no longer, should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. Brothers and sisters, we're to live for the will of God. For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. In regard to these, they think it's strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. They will give an account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. For this reason, the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit. What do we do? What do we do? We keep preaching. We keep preaching. Since Christ suffered for us, we arm ourselves also with the same mind. We keep preaching. You know, the Lord Jesus Christ endured. What did he endure? He endured for you and I. He endured even death on a cross for the joy that was set before him. Therefore, you endure. Therefore, I endure. Therefore, we go out to him, outside the camp bearing his reproach. We have much to be grateful for, right? Much to be thankful for in this world and we look forward to the city that is to come.  Let's pray. Father in heaven, where we praise you and we worship you and we thank you, Lord, that you suffered in our place. You suffered to call us to yourself, to redeem us, to give us life. You suffered, Lord, to take our penalty. We praise you and we worship you and thank you, Lord, that you have purchased us by your blood. Now, Lord, being blood bought by you, we desire, Lord, from the heart to go out to you, outside the camp bearing that reproach. We joyfully, we rejoice at the thought of that God. Now, Lord, with the opportunity to suffer with you, we praise you, we worship you, and we ask you, Lord, by your spirit, help us, Lord, to take courage. Help us to consider your example and to go for your glory, for your namesake, with gratefulness on our hearts for all that you've done for us.  And Lord, may you be glorified in it. May you receive the full reward of your suffering. We love you, Lord, and we thank you. Thank you for this blessed joy, this blessed privilege of bearing that reproach, and we rejoice that we've been counted worthy to suffer shame for your name. You are our Lord. You are our inheritance, God. Jesus Christ, you are our hope, the joy of our hearts. We look forward to that day when faith becomes sight and we see you as you are. We love you, Lord. In Jesus' name, amen.