What we're going to do this morning is we have a bunch of confirmations that will pass out and we'll volunteer who's going to take coup and pretty much upon the drill. Some of them that I've seen that require a report to the full floor will just be in a high position. There has to be a full report. We'll do that then. The Pro Tem for all chairs is starting to lean on us to start getting bills moving. Period is, I don't think we spent a lot of time on education. We've been dealing with bills, but I want to see some bills voted out. And on this agenda, just testing out the waters today, getting temperature issues within various bills. So we're going to spend the morning packing this in members. I said that. I'll text her. That's right here. I'll wait a second. The way she's done it in five minutes. Just look at them to see if there's any. Well that's what I was thinking. Two to five minutes to assign our confirmations here. So go through these. And let's play. Somebody just let's start off. You see somebody you want to do. Let's get rid of those first. I've got a couple. Which one do you run? Alex Farrell, Marie Ardette? Yeah. Great remarks. Two senatorial candidates? Yeah, absolutely. And I noticed there's nobody in this entire pop in Franklin County now. I don't know if that's one round off of that. There's nobody from Wyndham either. Hey, speak to the gov. Speak of the man. Alex. Yes, here's another Alex. It's the same one. I think we all have a copy of it. Got it. All right. So you've got it? Yeah. And you're taking Alex? Randy? Yeah, I'll take Alex. And Marie? And Marie Ardette. May I take the State Workforce Development person? Yeah, what's your name? His name is, he or she is Dale Miller. Does anybody know Dale Miller? Who? In the room? Who said they wanted to work? Oh, he does. A little boundaries. That would be bad. My guess is that it won't be him coming. Who said we were going to do some volunteer work? I don't know. Should I take that? Okay. I couldn't stick to it. Okay. I'll record your position. I'll just take Morgan's left. Yeah, we're getting there. And I'll take Karen Feinberg of the Vermont State Housing Authority. Who? Alison Blackman. She is the most amazing spelling woman yet to see today. Can I trick? Can I not take Karen Feinberg instead of the other Allison? You're making my life complicated. I lived complicated life. Okay. That's what I'm taking. And I'm sticking with it. All right. So, we're going to give... Dale, Allison, and Allison. Karen Sajek and Karen Feinberg to Becca. Okay. Any of these are going to require four words. No. So, now these David Boolanger... I'll do David Boolanger. Which of them do I only have one left? I've got Dale. Oh, you have one? Yes. Yeah. Do I ask here? Because he's coming to the state workforce. Is everybody has Corey Richardson? Yes. Yes, I do. And Margaret Gorge. That's what he's got. I have. He's got Karen. All right. We'll set it. Okay. I've got Allen, Allison, and Dale. We are sticking to the top of the alibis. I got him. Okay. Goodle on. Thank you, folks. Goodle on. Okay. So, let's start with one outstanding issue that we have on minimum wage that has come around the draft. It is on the child care piece. And that's one of the reasons I've been here. If you recall, last year, it was the one benefit issue that was addressed in the bill that passed. And it said that scholarship benefit plus the... Those wages who are trapped in provides would be addressed to the extent of the appropriations committee with funding to do no harm. The money for that is theoretically coming from, I think it was something like 100, very large millions of dollars that it knew reduced benefits paid by the state and increased income taxes This year, it was suggested when Ken Schatz was in here that maybe we didn't need that language to be as specific because there was a proposal from the government of $7 million into child care. And just make sure that in that effort that these two same issues got addressed. So that's my sort of loose explanation of the matter that the two stories from Damien... Good morning, thanks. For the record, Damien Leonard, legislative council. So I put the language suggested by the department for children and families in front of you here. Marcela has done that and I drafted it up for you. To walk you through the changes, they're fairly simple. If we look first on lines 13 and 14. Sorry, I must have this here somewhere. There it is. Oh my God, it's so simple. It's like an easily lost. So I did it as a strike off. The first change is to swap department for children and families, child care, our federal child care and development fund state plan for child care financial assistance programs sliding fee scale in order to. And then the next change here is on line 18. We took out the words remains the same and changed it to would not be lower down. So what it says is that at each new minimum wage level, the benefit percentage would not be lower than the percentage applied under the former minimum wage. And the reason for this is because DCF is a, as I understand it, it's not exact science and this gives them a little bit more flexibility to maybe go slightly higher than the former one that happened to be exactly the same. So this gives us some more flexibility as they're setting those rates and just prevents them from going below the floor. So is the process of getting to this language that you work with DCF on it? Yes, these are all suggestions put forward by DCF and then draft it, put it into our format by me. So I had not changed their language with the exception of correcting a typo that was in the language that was sent over. Wasn't there one other person that was supposed to be working on this in the loop? Debra Wright was also in the loop. So I think she worked with DCF and then they sent over language, which is my understanding of how it worked and they've all been CCed on emails. Does how much flexibility would DCF have from a dollar perspective? I am not sure. So basically I think one thing we want to know is just how potentially deep are we getting into spending and what was cost? So this is to the extent funds are appropriated? Yeah. So that's... Presumably you would appropriate the funds to do what it is that we want to do and what I'm trying to get a sense of is how much is that? Yeah. DCMAJFO can give us a hint. Didn't we have one from last year?  But with this year we're essentially talking about when the funds are appropriated, typically it's a round number and so you may have a little bit more and so those rates may go up just slightly more than they were before but this prevents them from going up. But right now, at least you might be out. So I wasn't here last year. I don't have a sense of whether we're talking about five dollars or five trillion dollars and I would like to... Yeah. ...an hour or so. I believe last year the amount took close. Close the gap was something like five or nine million dollars, but... No. Was it? No. To close the overall challenge. To close the... So yeah, we should look at last year's numbers. I can forward that. Thank you. We have somebody who knows the answer here. Yeah. My manager, Mr. Chair, Matt Levin, I'm the executive director for my really talented advocacy alliance. The bill last year, Senator Brock, elicits $738,511. Okay. That's a factor of 10. Yes. That's my offer to... I'm supposed to know from going forward. Senator Levin, $738,511. That's a great answer. Although, again, so yes. So Senator Brock, does that answer your question? Yes, it does. I appreciate it. It's just giving me an idea of what kind of range we're talking about. I think the intent of the new language is good. It makes sense to give some flexibility. The way it's written, theoretically, it's pretty wide open. It's no lower than 10 times. It could, but again, it's limited by what you appropriate. That's true. So the appropriation is too many. Not noted for its generosity. Right. Right. Okay. The name of it is 7 to 9. Well, it's the same. I'm going to blame that on half, only half a cup of coffee this morning. Not the same. We got stopped in a while.  How about we get rid of, to the extent, funds are appropriated? I think we've talked about this before. We have. I think that what happens then, is that the appropriations committee is going to effectuate those words, no matter whether they're not. I think it sends a good message to them that we're deferring to them.  It wouldn't be the one that would use them. Politically strategic. So, but my question for you on that is, that we have fallen behind so often on this, that we, I just, I would in some ways like to send a stronger message that we want them to not only be flexible, but to keep up. That's not what this section is. This section is just to hold those people at a minimum wage partners for seeing their benefits go down. Right. But we have to try to solve the project problem here. They are doing that elsewhere in the government for doing that. Isn't that also language that says to the extent appropriated, to the extent funds are appropriated? Doesn't that also give them the flexibility to not, or am I just channeling the HBB? They could effectively leave this language and kill the effectiveness of this thing. I'm not sure I'd go for the bill if they did that. Okay.  Okay. I don't want people going backwards. I want to make sure we go forward and keep it. Okay. So this isn't the right spot for that. Yeah, the other thing to note about this to the extent funds are appropriated language is it prevents us from statutorily requiring the Department for Children and Families to plunder other sources of funding that it has. So basically take money away from its other programs to do this. Okay. Which was part of that. That's part of why we added it last year because otherwise if the fund is made flat. I have a long spot to answer that question. Sorry. I apologize. Dip someone else. So, I apologize. Okay. The next change was formally the language on line 20 said adjust the market rate used to inform the fee scale. And now it says adjust the child care financial assistance program rate paid to providers on behalf of families. So this way I think is a change primarily for clarity. And that's it. Those are the changes. Okay. That's pretty straightforward and consistent with what we did last year. That's the principle. Okay. Anybody have any further comments on this language or this just summarizing what you say as important but the benefit clip should have needed to be addressed in our charge to the summer study community. I think that the legislative and summer studies committee recommendation to the legislature and to address the benefit cuts biggest item there not bill assistance. Just on the side and not necessarily to do something of this bill and underline that I am not suggesting spending billions of dollars. But it seems to me that at some point we need to grapple with the benefits issue in its entirety. You have time and time again we've heard the adverse effect the benefits group has on getting people to work and getting them in jobs that pay more. It has a discouraging effect on individuals but it also has a very bad effect on businesses to be able to fill the jobs that they have. And really we need to tackle that whole piece and perhaps find a funding source and a way to do it either that or reduce benefits proportionally across the board so that they're even those are almost a few choices. And the last time I think most of the committee probably would not like to do but in terms of big legislation that we need to deal with and big problems we need to solve I think that's one of them. I don't disagree. I think there was we should, David you find that I know house human services a couple of years ago took on the task of benefit cliffs. I'll mention there's some, maybe it's on a shelf somewhere but that might be a good story but it's not really within our job. This committee is doing a few more human services or health development. I'll ask Katie. She knows because she would have worked on that. I was encouraged and I think I said this before Senator Rock and also we had some testimonies at least what we heard people as long as they were and maybe to the extent they weren't even getting anything by an increase in wages that would rather happen being wages rather than being a voucher and not being told how to spend it. Okay so the right view obviously all may have different feelings on the minimum wage in general by statute or what rate. There are four distinct pieces that I'd like to talk about. There are not many votes today. Last year has introduced is only different in a couple of respects. The bill that has introduced that has a majority of Senate sponsors gets us to $15 by 2024. A little faster than it was last time, a year faster in terms of the time period, a year's lapse but it is the same thing. So if in one year the minimum wage is over $0.50 in April or $0.55. They introduced the bill as it was vetoed with a sub-minimum wage and we'll talk about that. So that's a second issue. That's the $3 difference for high school kids during the summer. Issue was as the bill was vetoed, essentially does nothing, study it. It's not a simple issue. There's a lot of different solutions. The COLA, nothing with an edge of $15 that doesn't say anything what happens. And I'm pretty sure in the bill that passed last year that the government reviewer had a study on what the cost of living index if any should exist in between. So it leaves in the CPI increase, which is an existing law. It does, okay. But then it does have a study about whether that should change. Okay. So the fall would be to go to stay in CPI? Right. So there's a report in there that Ledge Council and JFO are supposed to produce on an alternate measure. It's actually the range. Yeah. So you remember there's the CPI, there's the chain CPI, there's, Joyce mentioned a couple other indexes that could be used alternately, which have been proposed in other states, but as yet no states adopted anything about the CPI. And the states vary as to whether it's the CPIU or CPIW, but ultimately that makes a very small difference in their wages. That's it. Let's take on, I guess, I'm going to use my discretion here and make the issue about whether the ending year should be 2024 because Senate had been very reasonable. We got some respect back from elements in the business community that it was a phase in thing over time. And at the same time we got some pressure from some of the advocacy group that it wasn't fast enough. I don't think it was hard for them that we lost a year phase and the governor didn't accept the bill. So I think it should stay at 2024 the difference. The other thing that comes back to this is we're a little bit further behind of other states now jumping in and doing $15 Massachusetts to $50 by 2023. So that's where I am on that issue. What I would expect to hope to do is to take some of these discussions, reduce them to a strike all. I support 2024. I feel that while this gradually is I think a thoughtful graduation and something not dissimilar to increases that have been absorbed before in the workplace. I really feel that while I'm delighted to be doing this at $15 I am afraid that by 2024 $15 will still be significantly below the livable wage in parts of our state and that while this is a step in the right direction I wish actually we were being able to have greater impact on our lowest wage workers in this state because I think... Anyway, you know what I think. I just want to say one other thing that is a lobbyist who I would expect very much said to me last year and took it seriously. We should have probably discussed this bill the entire time as a past just saying $15 in the wage. We've gotten a lot of people concerned about step of dollars tomorrow. We could retitle this. That's I'm just thinking of an ordinary person here that in 2024 just kind of five years going up to $15 in five years it sounds like it's you're saying to go I'm sorry that it's delayed a year by the governor's veto I wish it hadn't been but since it has been may make it more palatable to small businesses. Well, the small businesses in mind of the woods are already absorbing the market challenge and so are already way above the minimum wage. I just think if we're really trying to tackle poverty in any substantial way the sooner that we can graduate and find a path to $15 an hour, the better and I think the compelling evidence is the cost of living in our state. When you look at the cost of housing statistics that we that Earhart has so eloquently presented and all the other advocates that we you know it's just gobsmacking so I think that for our lowest wage workers if we could get there tomorrow I would vote for it but I don't think it's politically and financially sustainable by many people. So I'm willing to do I'd love to do it tomorrow so I think that One thing if this could play out at any time in the next few months if we got a signal from the fifth floor that this would make a difference that might that may change my mind. One of the things that was very interesting to me and I think sort of hits this issue very directly is why Joyce Manchester told us. I don't know if you remember I asked her question with her new numbers I said what you're saying is this bill doesn't do nearly as much as the bill last year did but it's less burdensome on business because of what has transpired in the marketplace in the last year in terms of wages going up so even though it may seem like it may be a year less to get there when she say it's going to affect fewer jobs and have fewer impacts as a result on the business of the bill if it had to affect or at least what we thought we were dealing with last year about how to enter and I certainly in the polls you're going to keep it at 24 and just thinking a lot that businesses are trying to adjust and I appreciate that businesses are already beyond that I too would like to see I don't know if it matters what you're saying but I was just using my fingers to count and I think keeping it at 24 these five 22, 23, 24 the one issue that's not related to the timeline I think keeping it to 2024 is where I come down but the thing that's mostly troubling me and I really don't know how to address it is the medicaid reimbursement that's the thing that's keeping up about the LNA that that is that we can't crack here in this committee and that is the one area even more so than small businesses that's the one area that I feel like of course I support the bill don't get me wrong but if there's something that's troubling me it's that that we don't have a whole lot that we can do about the medicaid reimbursement but I given our demographics that is a increasing sector of employment so I just wanted to put it on the table we haven't talked about it much we had some testimony on that given a lot of thoughts since then so I just wanted to bring it into the discussion because I think we I don't think we spent a lot of time looking at what that's going to mean for that sector so yes we really had one written this on I'm sure you know this is going to be a 4-1 committee vote I'm not enthusiastic about you know I've never been particularly interested in tinkering with the economy in particular because of the concern of unintended consequences I think we know in terms of unintended consequences that there will be some job losses and the question is would a person rather have a job at $12 an hour that have a $15 minimum wage and no job I'm also concerned about the inflationary effect and we know that there isn't a broad inflationary effect across the economy as a whole but I'm concerned about those people who are not earning $15 an hour and those people are not earning anything at all because of their unfixed incomes particularly the senior citizens in the second oldest state in the nation who are not going to get a pay increase but are going to find themselves with a cost increase particularly in a number of the areas where they buy things particularly from small businesses I'm concerned about the effect on small business the individual convenience stores and so on whose payrolls are going to go up and without the easy ability to raise prices sufficiently to get it talking about what those cost increases and the cost impact is going to be and in terms of dealing with poverty raising the minimum wage of my judgment is if that is the best that we can do to attack poverty I don't think we've gone nearly far enough we've not really looked at why does affordable housing cost as much as it does what can we do on the cost side and one of the ways to deal with poverty is to reduce cost or not essentially increase taxes on the poor which is I think one of the things that increasing the minimum wage effectively does but I don't want to waste a lot of committee's time because frankly you guys have your lives made up and no matter what I say or what evidence we produce you're going to vote to increase the minimum wage so my sense is we should just go do it and move on to the next issue I think some of your points are incredibly important I would like us to be but they aren't going to make any difference in the Senate's vote no but it may make difference what we work on next and I think the cost side is right because you're about I mean that is a huge challenge in all of this it is a huge challenge and poverty holistically is eating our shorts and a huge challenge I totally appreciate what you said I totally appreciate your frankness on it and I missed it but I will say one thing is that one of the things that struck me was our state economist when he went through his numbers I think in a slip of the tongue somewhat because he was supposed to be totally neutral and he said well 200 or 900 jobs that may be lost but 90,000 people are going to benefit from this so those are pretty good odds so well it's not what you're saying it's not wrong there are some positives to raising the minimum wage for some people as well as potential loss in hours but it certainly makes my job a lot easier that we're on the same page as to this discussion and how we approach it but I do want to still talk about the other two issues tipped employees which is an important issue and I think I would think if we wanted to do something to change the law right now if tipped employees we'd have to take some more testimony I think we've heard from a few witnesses on either side they're very strong in their positions at the tip minimum wage to stay as far as to get rid of any difference the whole trend seems to be to get rid of the tip minimum wage but people are doing it on phasings they're doing it with incentives and I don't have that decision but I think it's an issue that's worthy of further discussion so one choice would be to set it up to keep the issue alive for a study or a future well as you know I'm a big fan of going to one wage and I think that particularly the issues of an overwhelming layer in tip minimum wage jobs and the amount of sexual harassment that they deal with I wish we had more concrete data on that but I think we all know anecdotally that the tip minimum wage subjects women in particular to work atmosphere and harassment in both forms and if we can get rid of that even in a modest part moving to one wage I would love to do that I'd love to do it and see what the house did with it but I'm open to that conversation but I really hope we can someday move to one wage I'd like to do an ASAP but I would like to see some empirical studies of what's happened when the tip minimum wage has been raised as it has been another jurisdiction of what the effect has been exactly the effect of pricing and the one thing that I would add to the remarks I made a few minutes ago that we don't seem to spend very much time on is when we do things like raising these things where's the money coming from who's paying for those increases what part of the economy is it coming out of and what is the concomitant effect of who pays for it in the end in this case a restaurant diner who presumably is going to be charged at least on the face of it the extra funds that the restaurant owner is going to pay in order to make that difference now that person may be willing to pay that but again looking at what's happened in other jurisdictions that will be a key looking at a truly peer-reviewed empirical study as opposed to a study presented by advocates will give us at least some indication of what the effect will be of the decision that we make so the burden employers the state curse diners right now the burden for a huge percent of this minimum wage lies in the public purse I'd really like to change that whose responsibility is it to pay people a livable wage the employer to pick up what the employer is willing to pay or what the public is willing to pay well again that's why I'd like to see again some empirical evidence such as the kind of thing that we're just talking about I think that what is the effect of making those changes and we will find those things out we have some of that data from around the country because we certainly have other states for moving to that but in that regard to pivot to the chair's suggestion that would certainly justify doing a fuller report before we moved to a one wage I am one voice on this committee of five I just happen to I support one wage as you know anybody else when I go around the room and ask for comments you're not obligated to make comments if you just want to stay silent well you know how I feel so you know it's important for me that there is that we're getting more data on the tip minimum so that we can get in more detail whether it's next year or next biennium but we it is an ongoing concern for me I've got to think timing wise we have the time to do due diligence right now and I'm not a fan of cobbling something together shipping it off the house and putting the burden on them you know I just I don't want to do that there is language in there that says we're going to really get some hard data on this that I'm comfortable that would be more than we did in the veto bill exactly last year we just said nothing exactly we were silent ok more information so let's see sub minimum so the sub minimum was I just put the bill in as veto and the more I've heard about it it seems like the less there's not as many kids as I thought last year the bill even though I put the bill in as it was vetoed the senate version that passed over when we did not have the sub minimum the house but it was so cut to the chase if they want to try to do that again I'm saying let them do it right I definitely definitely support getting rid of the sub minimum wage I think all of the evidence we heard about who's most affected by poverty the age group is 18 to 24 colleges I don't see that there is and the number of young people who are contributing to the families living in poverty I don't think there's any justification for paying young people 18 or older less and Damien you can help us out here there's been some confusion as to what the status of it's not really a sub minimum wage but as what kind of students and when are impacted by our minimum wage applies to them or whether the federal minimum wage applies to them and my understanding is that most businesses is believe that the state minimum wage applies to everybody and the reading from the Department of Labor is that during the school year you say it so I can't speak for businesses in general but testimony we heard last year indicated that there are businesses that thought the state minimum wage applied and there were businesses that thought the federal minimum wage applied here ground and there were some businesses that had contacted the Department of Labor to get clarity about this the Department's position was is that the exemption applies during the school year but not during the summer so during the school year you're subject to the federal minimum wage requirements during the summer you're subject to the state minimum wage requirements and that's because they read the exemptions and everything else in the law to be as protective as possible so that's the statutory construction so the bill does two things one is it takes secondary school students out of the exemptions from the minimum wage which would mean that the state wage applies year round but the second thing it does is it adds that sub minimum wage for them so that would basically mean that those secondary school students would now be subject to a minimum wage at $3 below the minimum wage so you could take out the second part and they'd be subject to the state minimum wage as it goes up or you could leave in the second part and it would be subject to a lower wage and so those are sort of the two options that this bill has in it for dealing with that confusion and that sort of fluctuating wage the other option would be to clarify and this bill was put in last year there was a bill put in to clarify that the federal minimum wage would apply year round so to clarify that that secondary school students for example from the minimum wage during all parts of the regular school year and breaks between school years so your language on page two though says an employer shall not employ a second part that's the second part of the sub minimum wage part and the first part is the first part is on the pages five and six and that is where the unranked got it yeah lines 18 and 19 you see it repeals the exemption for students working during all or any part of the school year well I would strongly support the unified wage for anyone 18 or above or I mean just get rid of it and make it all year round I would support leaving the law as is and figuring out a way interpretation of the department some a lot of the distinction most of the my guess is that I don't want to say there won't be facts but I'm guessing that the work during the school year whereas during the summer we're working full time and work into a full time worker and that's the interpretation of the department is given right now people don't understand that so I'm in favor of not changing the law I'm not putting in the three dollars sub minimum but leaving essentially what the Senate did on a strong vote last year just leaving it alone so still having a differential in the school year still allowing the federal minimum to be paid in the school year and people want to I don't think many people are taking advantage of it but it seems to have been working in all the minimum wage debates I've been involved in I haven't heard the idea of sub minimum I think would be pretty unique in having a sub minimum wage what other states do which I think is even worse is a training wage where they send for the first 60 days and then you can pay a lesser wage than that to be clear during the federal minimum wage period there is a training wage period for workers under the age of it's either 18 or 20 and I'd have to double check what the age is but that's a four dollar and something minimum wage that's a time period it's not age it's not school related no it's not school related for workers under a certain age and you know one of the things that I would feel pretty sure of myself judging by my conversations with Senator Amasa he had no idea that law existed that he could pay his workers less is he going in now? I don't know how to make him start again I doubt he has so the let's not get to yeah that the youth minimum wage is workers under 20 and then it gets any wage above 425 an hour during the first 90 calendar days after they start the job and then after that they're subject to 725 so I have a real problem with that I mean given the cost of education and the cost of university to have 18 and 20 year old in college having to earn possibly 725 an hour I think it's outrageous I mean one of the few things we can do less than 725 yeah during the training period have you ever heard of one portion doing that that you're aware of you're beyond average ooh snap my job is what at this point um no but I if you think about it given how expensive we've made our state colleges I mean we have chosen I mean we can't have it both ways we can't underpay people and charge them so much for college I think that we have to be able to let people earn more when they're 18 and above and I think that I really given all the information we've been given about who's earning that money I think bit cutting off our noses despite our face by limiting what 18 year olds can earn so your position would be to do more than the senate did last year yes now that I know it's 20 I think the 20 is unacceptable the highest possible it's only during the school year that's during the university time to be clear so the federal wage applies to individuals 20 years and younger but our state wage supersedes that so the department has interpreted it to be secondary school so once you're out of high school you're now subject to the state minimum wage year around and that really would need to be clarified that's another question if you leave the language as is the committee want to have the word secondary or secondary school before students because that during the minimum wage study committee was another point of confusion about which wage applies okay can you just state where you are on this issue as you walk out the door on which specific issue on the student wage I don't think we should have a student wage that should be completely aligned with you want to change the system yes one thing on the issue that I've heard that concerns me even though I'm not in support of the bill is the possibly again unintended consequence of having a student who finds it's economically desirable to quit school rather than to earn a sudden minimum wage I don't think that's something that we want to have so in other words a person who's a high school student can be earning $3 less than the state $15 minimum wage under this and if that person quit school he could earn $3 an hour more so you don't want to provide an incentive to that again that would suggest that would not be a great idea to have a two-tiered wage but sadly kids that are doing that don't have skills or expertise but again as we talk about unintended consequences the fact that that person might quit in order to earn the higher wage they might not be able to get the higher wage because one of the things that we have repeatedly heard is that the lowest skill workers and not the workers who are going to probably able to easily migrate to $15 an hour because employers won't pay that except to people who have higher skill levels well it's really hard to keep them in school and giving them all sorts of workforce development training and apprentices internships to keep them in school and I think we need to work hard to keep them in school I don't think this is going to be a big major attraction of leaving okay well that was good discussion we'll take this up probably again on Tuesday I appreciate it we have two more discussions like that to go so we'll let's take a take a break do you want me to draw up sounds good certainly short and she was she gleefully accepted and she happily had written very nice written so I'll take you to my full testimony and I'll just charge you on the higher wage points so my name is Erica Canales I'm a veterinary senator in Lausanne, Vermont I am 41 years old my husband is a native Vermont and we are three of the youngest business owners in the state of Vermont under the age of 45 so I feel like I have I represent a nice perspective on the small business and the demographic that this state is trying to hold on to and so just for today with senator box comments that if I could follow up on them you know we are the obstacles my generation is going through just to think of starting or maintaining to employ our residents is far greater than our predecessors we are already seen with the movement that we're trying to do we are actually trying to be different than previous veterinary owners in the community where they have kept everybody down at part time not giving benefits we have tried to think ahead and do the right thing like you were saying some of your members are already trying to go above 15 or be at 15 but we are already seeing that the entry level positions are being lost because of those increases and I really want to say for example if that $15 minimum including college students I know you have your perspective on this we are going to our experience technicians are at that rate right now and they are the lowest end of the experience technicians so your students that are trying to get into vet school that need that experience we are not going to be able to bring them on in that capacity we have already started seeing that receptionist role in order to provide full time benefits for those technicians at the full time level we are actually the technicians are being the receptionist now and so their entry level as a receptionist is being decreased we are also seeing we all know the workforce in this state we are having such a hard time getting people here to live here I myself I live above my practice because I can't afford it most of my employees are 40 hours plus so that's 5 hours over time a week I'm looking at an additional $12,000 to $18,000 per person at the end of the year and if I'm an employer of 10 employees that multiplied I don't know how I'm going to be sustainable or solvent in 15 to 20 years when it's time I have 10 right now that includes myself and do you mind me asking the range of what their pay per hour yeah I'd love to because the veterinary profession is kind of wonky in the century entry level once yeah absolutely so you're vet assistants and we actually probably again like I said we pay better than most and it depends on the community that you're in as well your vet assistants which are sort of your lower end the job training to be able to move up the ladder they're at anywhere between for us we started the minimum wage for the 10 to 78 and they usually go up to about 12 11 to 12 the your the technicians that do not have an associate's degree from like VTC or something like that they're about 11 to 13 your 13 to 15 are ones that actually might have a two years associate's degree or they have a fair amount of job experience because Vermont doesn't recognize the certification of a technician even though we have the degrees here in the state of Vermont your two plus the tech with associate degree plus 13 to 15 your 15 to 17 are your two plus years experience technicians and then when you start to get to their upper levels they usually have five plus years they've been in practice, they've been loyal they've stuck around and they can really produce and do the higher level things like surgery and whatnot and the cost and what level would it be and it was like wanting to go to veterinary school where would they end up? So right now I have three students from UVM that we try to be a teaching hospital and right now I've got I have two of them at 11 and one of them at 13 because she had actually started much more. And what's their cost of veterinary school? Graduate school? Class? To say I'm still we have about $300,000 for the student votes from my husband So there's our challenge? No and I understand that but so to get in the door to get the experience at the same time I'm trying not to charge my clients a ridiculous service fee to be able to recruit that cost because we are getting compounded with other 6 to 8% from the pharmaceutical companies we've got the now this proposal for the family insurance leave that we need to be adding on as well we've also that was proposed to be paid for by the employees and the businesses is what I'm not and that may change and while bill number at this at this juncture we've already been dealing with the tax department for 2 to 3 years on them trying to remove our exemptions as a medical use field so that means that there's going to be a pet tax on both the public so that those costs go up for both the public but also for us and that I can tell you from my doing the math we're looking at a starter practice it's going to be an additional $20,000 I appreciate I'm just trying to say that there's these unintended consequences and there's they're also not only unattended they haven't yet you're talking about your fears down the road I saw the tax department shaking their head that there is no tax so and the time period to address us is very brief so I guess what I'm just asking is I wanted to send Senator Brock's comments on the fact that at the same time that we're proposing all this stuff it would be we're doing an amazing job with trying to create workforce training entrepreneurship bringing in these remote workers giving them rebates the only place that we're not seeing it is with the small businesses and I just wanted this moving forward if there's a place to put some sort of initiatives and rebates in for those of us that are already trying to do it right trying to sustain that be solvent that was just just one question and that question is in the event that there were $15 minimum wage how would it affect your business today assuming that none of these other changes occurred well how would it affect your business and what would you do? I would be concerned at again specifically spoke to that you're looking at at least a $13,000 increase for her employee that of my experience technicians so you multiply that by 5 for me personally how would you get that back? I have to one increase my inventory I have to increase my service fees I would not be able to provide the level of benefits that I'm trying to do for because I own one direction and if I have to try to balance it between not pricing myself out of the ballpark so that employees can take care of their pets and have my employees be able to survive I'm in quandary I used to represent the veterinary association do they have a position of minimum wage for that chance? No so I will say this in my own profession veterinarians are much more focused on the medicine than the business aspect and that's why I'm here today as the practice manager of my practice you don't see any wealthy veterinarians that was my point of saying that we're I'm one of three businesses a veterinary business data mob that are under 45 there are not many we're one of the few and we'd like to see one but it's hard with the traction that we're going in thank you thank you for coming down so we're going to move on to housing proposals and with there's two things that we've spent a lot of time already going through elements of probably most of the elements of what might be an honor of this housing though but we haven't talked about how we're going to pay for we use our housing related that I was hoping to suggest to the committee that we might want to add on to this bill as a source of revenue is the has to do with the bill at Senator Rock and I put in that closes a loophole in the property transfer somebody here who looks Peter Griffin is here to explain that to us he's already explained it to finance so it's going to be a repeat of three of us but then we're going to get into the numbers from Joint Fiscal as to how much that raise the second one is full by the governor it's closing a loophole on short-term rentals that are not Airbnb's because Airbnb has their own contract with the state to turn over older and also there's a practice out there that is very costly to the state whereby online companies like Expedia the classic example is I'll say the rooms I think the governor has suggested both of those and we have Joint Fiscal here to explain the numbers I think in total that my hope with palace where the pitfalls are doing this again most of what I was saying it did better than we even expected it always does in terms of demand so with that let's have Peter Griffin come up please the sense of what kind of legislative council if I have one sheet hand out I'm going to pass around I'm going to talk a little about that 67 an act related to the property transfer tax when it talks a little bit about there we go for those of you who are also in finance this may seem familiar you're still with us So what you have here is, instead of going through the language of the bill, it just delays out what current law is on the property transfer tax and what the proposal does. Vermont has a tax on the transfer of real property in the state. It's paid by the buyer. In the middle of the page here you see I stole from the tax department website. It runs through what the rates of the tax are and the different levels of property and value to which it applies. Built into the property transfer tax now it's also clean water surcharge as well. The chart there is more just for your background education. It's not so much directly related to the proposal you have before you. The key thing to understand about the way the property transfer tax works now is that it applies to the transfer property by deed. And that means that when real property is purchased somebody goes down to the clerk's office and records that on the deed and that is when the property transfer tax is paid and returned as filed. What can happen now under current law is that you can have a legal entity such as an LLC or a corporation or a partnership that holds title to the real property in the name of the entity. And so that when that entity is sold through a transfer of stock or somehow interested in the entity, nobody goes down and transfers the deed as well. The deed is still held by that legal entity so in which case the property transfer tax is not triggered. What the proposal would do is basically change a couple of different definitions in current law and it would apply the property transfer tax to the transfer of a controlling interest in one of these legal entities that held real property in the state of Vermont. And then the way the tax would be applied is that it would be applied to the value of the property in that legal entity prorated for the percentage that is transferred. So maybe I'll stop right there. That was kind of a quick race through. But basically the idea is that instead of having to go down in a transfer by deed and just trying to capture transfers that happen when a business or legal entity is bought or sold. So it captures a larger pool. It's fishing. It's trying to capture a larger universe. Yeah and so if you think of the property transfer tax as a tax on physical property that is bottom sold in the state, the way it is structured now there is a group of transfers that is not being captured. Right. That are owned entities but not necessarily physical. Yeah. So if I have an LLC and I have 100% ownership of that and it owns one piece of property and the LLC holds the deed. Right now I can sell that entire LLC to you for $100. And you have the beneficial ownership. You control the property because you own the LLC which owns the property. But nobody goes down and does anything with the deed. Right. It's all done through the LLC and the transfer. So right now that sort of transfer in the state is not being picked up. What if the LLC is being sold has no real properties? Then the property transfer tax doesn't apply. Okay. So this still isn't going, the universe isn't as broad as I thought.


We did have Michael Parsons responded to you saying it's weird that he was talking about Brock Purdy. Here's what he said. Prime example of let's attack the person rather than addressing the topic. Yeah, because it's so weird. A football player is talking about football on a website where you can write your thoughts and opinions, Rob.  I mean, no, that's not weird. Everyone has their own opinion. I gotta agree with that. Everyone has their own channel now with social media, but I still think it's weird that you're worried about another team, man. You know, you just got to worry about what you can control.  That's all I got for that situation. I mean, Michael Parsons is what a great defensive player. I can't take that away from him. 100%. I think he's one of the best defensive players in the league. I think it's Micah. Micah needs to come on the show. Micah and Rob next week.


Everybody forced here ripping 2021 contenders optic football hobby 10 box half case number three pick your team style got Andre V cults Austin C Lions Bradley C Jets Christopher C Steelers Connor R Niners Kyle F Saints David G Bears Edgar B Seahawks Edwin S Giants Harper B with the Bengals bills Packers chiefs and Bucks Jacob L Washington Jason B Cardinals Jerry B Vikings Jim a Browns Joshua O Broncos Mark s Jags and that would be Pat's Paul and Cowboys Rain with the Titans Rob F Raiders Steven W Rams Steven H Eagles Steven the same Steven W it must have been separate orders. It's kind of separated there in dolphins So Steven W has Rams and dolphins Terrell Panthers Tim V Ravens Tony T Falcons Wang with the Chargers and Wong with the Texans good luck. So that was a Wing s Chargers and Wong s with the Texans. Good luck See what we got everybody. So Blake Probably a little bit of boats and Victor. All right. We've got base Aaron Jones Packers rookie ticket Sam Ellinger Colts Hi, he's Patriots from Andre Stevenson rookie Green Pulsar There we go. That's 16 of 30 and Patriots Green Pulsar again X's and O's JC Jackson and Mac Jones Patriots starting off hot that one's 23 of 30. Nice redemption is Ravens rookie ticket auto blue odafe oe Ravens and Panthers variation rookie ticket autos Silverish Chuba Hubbard. Oh, yeah, it was the first box The first box kind of like caught me off guard Because the color on the tickets is like just on the sides So I go from like oh nice hit to like Trying to y'all as out as I can this early in the morning for me got Dave among gummary There's a pits rookie ticket for the Falcons His Patriots doing very well Mac Jones red rookie ticket to 175 Geez Pat's no ink and just crushing it winning ticket blue for the Bill Stefan digs winning tickets look really sweet with the Optic there got two redemptions. This is a big one though rookie ticket RPS Purple Pulsar Jamar Chase Boom bangles are the big one. What is purple Pulsar number two? I don't even see purple Pulsar See green What is this number two check this drive me crazy wait, that's a Is that a first off the line? Yeah, the checklist as purple Pulsar is first off the line Right. Yeah checklist here first off the line box average one purple Pulsar auto number to 21 and Apparel number to 26 Yeah, these are this is a hobby case I can show you the case Wow, that's huge Mistake in your favor bangles. That's a monster hit Wow, that's to 21 and look at this. What is going on here? I'm looking at the case. It's a hobby case.  Oh my god That's insane Wow Wow, well, I hope there's no first off the line boxes missing hits out there, but Jaguars and bangles Monster redemptions there and just got a lot warmer in here My brain is trying my brain is working too hard right now to figure out how that happens How to happen again, I think I yeah, this is for sure a hobby case. Oh You know we have first off the line. There's a Daven Cook and a Jalen Darden Got blue Devante Adams Packers to 99 X's and O's Titans Simmons and Tannehill as this is a hobby case This is another purple Pulsar Trevor Lawrence redemption. No, I'll show you the entire box I'll show you the case here in a second to Anna Jamar Chase what yeah, these are some big errors. What is happening? Yeah, I'm dead serious We already have the other ones in mags. Oh my god. All right guys This is the fourth box. I'll even show you the case real quick. Let me just move these right here This is for sure a hobby case. There's no doesn't have that like red tape. It doesn't have a sticker or nothing I just show you the entire box. I'll show you the whole box again I just got the plastic off of that one zero. We're about to get a turkey. I Don't think it's gonna happen again. Okay. Just trying to gather myself guys. Sorry got mixing long wheel Bengals Joe mix and season ticket cracked ice It's 22 and green Pulsar sheeps winning ticket is Tyreek Hill. I love that one That looks like the money one of 30 for the chiefs winning ticket Tyreek Hill Stealers got a Super Bowl auto Heath Miller and Yeah, even the first off the line like a light gamer is saying in Twitch chat you get one first off the line auto and one parallel So yeah, so 50 your rookie ticket blue auto Seahawks Dwayne Eskridge Yeah, there are cracked ice rookie tickets in this too. Yeah, I've never seen an error like that before Especially in favor of like what you're ripping Robinson and Dami Brown rookie for Washington blue Eagles rookie ticket to Bonte Smith Out of 99 and winning ticket blue for the bills to bond digs to 99 Broncos green Pulsar ps2 rookie ticket auto number to 30 Nice Patrick sirtana second. I was too confused and Victor. I'm still too confused I'm still thinking about what is going on right now and green Pulsar rookie ticket auto Chargers Josh Palmer on card two of 30 Nice box of there, too Eagles mile Sanders Rams to do that. Well, sorry Other cracked ice here is Giants rookie Kaderius Tony It's 2022 and Anthony Schwartz and Trey sermon pink to 75 gonna roll the die one two three for the top four five six for the bottom Get one two three frowns four five six Six gonna go Niners on this one. Yeah, it's literally happening again variations variations this time same players Lawrence and Chase Guys I honestly have no idea what to say Congrats Jags and Bengals and other than that. I really have no idea what to say Looking at the I'm I feel like this is an episode of the twilight zone or something some sort of like weird fever This is one of those weird dreams You don't you get a dream about work and you're like it's just like work is weird but chaotic and hectic That's what this that's what this is right now like I don't This is freaky got to two out. We're Rams rookie got green Pulsar Colts Jonathan Taylor out of 30 Optic illusion DK Metcalf Seattle silver Non-purple Pulsar as I would imagine here We've got to 99 Saints rookie ticket auto blues Kawan Baker and Colts rookie ticket auto is quity pay Whoever has the Bengals and Jags. They're they're watching. I hope they're okay. They may have like fainted or something Yeah, Harper has the Bengals Mark s has the Jags. Yeah, I keep showing guys. I show the case and everything and And like we were saying earlier even if that were those are first off the line boxes You will get one first off the line auto not to So I don't know what to really say Red for the Colts Jonathan Taylor out of 175 and superstars die-cut sheeps Tyree kill We've got Colts Jonathan Taylor and rookie Anthony Schwartz for the Browns Lions rookie ticket auto leave on was a Rique Wow, that's really sick Washington cracked ice coaches ticket Jennifer King Isn't she the first or one of the first full-time women coaches in the league Congrats Jacob.  Oh, yeah, that's a really nice car cracked ice to coaches ticket Jennifer King Running backs coach for the Washington football team That's awesome, man That's it. That's a significant card right there Yeah, dude Riverboat Ron.  They do have some good people in that organization Now you got Damian Harris and Kyle Tras rookie for the Bucks Justin Fields red rookie ticket for the Bears to 175 Exes and O's Pat's Mack Jones and JC Jackson Silver very nice Ravens now Tyson Williams green pulsar rookie ticket auto to 30 and Eagles to 50 RPA Kenneth Gainwell Very nice of the RPAs 50 of 50 the bookends. Yeah, dude Riverboat Ron's awesome Really wish they would have won that Super Bowl against the Broncos and Super Bowl 50 It was cool to see a lot of those rockers blockers players get it too, but face we got McCaffrey and Lawrence there we go Leave that outside of the redemptions. That's the first Lawrence. We've seen outside of the redemptions Like I said, red rookie ticket stealers now shoot to 175 Pink X's and O's chase young Taylor Heinecke 75 still getting used to the colors here Broncos to 50 rookie ticket auto orange Patrick certs and the second nice color match Broncos and Cardinals to 50 a red rookie ticket on our RPS. I'll just call it RPS Ron Dale Moore nice one Cardinals with the color match. I'll do a quick recap. I honestly That's the stack of first off the line hits right there from that 10 box hobby break that we just did So autos here got Ron Dale Moore Patrick certs and the second Kenneth Gainwell RPA Tyson Williams green pulsar Jennifer King cracked ice There we go. We got leave on was a Rique quity pay Kwan Baker Josh Palmer Patrick certan the second Dwayne Askeridge Heath Miller Chuba Hubbard Odaway Redemption Ravens, and then if you're just tuning in now This was a 10 box half case Hobby boxes. This is a redemption for the Bengals Jamar Chase rookie ticket RPS Auto variation purple pulsar that is a first off the line parallels should be number to 21 and then you had two of the Non-variation purple pulsars same player Jamar Chase Jaguars You had a purple purple pulsar for if you take it RPS auto Trevor Lawrence another one of those and in the variation and Not only were they in hobby boxes. There was one each Chase and Lawrence in three and three that boxes essentially So the pair was in three by this was all three total boxes right here One chase one Lawrence in each of those boxes Absolutely wild Absolutely wild we're on to half case number four


Hello, okay. This works. All right. I think it's half past now So let's gonna start So welcome everyone today. We're gonna talk about running Kubernetes on open stack and a bit more also metal and how to do it in a way That's that's fast. That's why we do it on bare metal to among other things but let's start by talking about the vision the concept of the Open hybrid cloud because it's all related as you're gonna see so when you are a Developer and I'm sure many of you are developers here You shouldn't care too much about the underlying platform that you are using but in general you're gonna have four types of Footprints, right? You're gonna have a physical platform where whichever All the platform to do development is installed or a virtual one And it can be a private cloud or a public cloud. So these are these are essentially the four footprints and in particular we can divide them between the Public clouds. There are a number of them listed in here. There are many more out there or on-premise in private clouds, okay? so today we're gonna talk about the private cloud and in particular Kubernetes On OpenStack and then Kubernetes on bare metal, right? In this case Kubernetes using coros, right as the operating system to run everything else on top of OpenStack Okay, so let's start then Why first off starting with Kubernetes on OpenStack? Why Kubernetes on OpenStack? Well The two platforms are really well integrated, right? We've been working on the integration for a number of years now with many different components At the same time as I said before Kubernetes itself is workload driven That means that I only care about the workloads when I'm a developer and As I said, I don't really care as a developer too much about everything else, right? So I want it to work and that's it But for those of us working on the integration There are things very important about how to integrate Kubernetes and OpenStack For example, OpenStack is as it says in here programmatically driven API driven, right? So we can use the API's that OpenStack exposes To work on this integration and we've done this with a number of projects in OpenStack as you will see At the same time OpenStack itself in general is a platform that scales very well It's been designed since the beginning with the concept of scaling scaling in the data center And it scales across all the infrastructure, right? OpenStack is an abstraction layer for compute for networking even for storage, right? And it goes across all the data center and It's on top of a very solid foundation, which is Linux, right here. By the way, my name is sorry, I didn't introduce myself before My name is Ramona Cedro Rodriguez and I'm a product manager from Working for RedCat, that's why you're gonna see the RedCat logo all over here And among all the things I'm the product manager responsible for OpenShift and OpenStack and also for Something that you're gonna see in a minute Which is bare metal provisioning with Kubernetes Among all the things and also the project ironic we're gonna talk about ironic Here so at RedCat I work for the ironic team as the product manager. Okay, sorry about that but back to the slides Okay, let's start with the integrations Kubernetes on OpenStack integrations and the idea is that these two platforms are Complementary they don't compete with each other. They use each other, especially Kubernetes uses OpenStack, right? So OpenStack exposes the resources by API And OpenShift as a platform consumes these resources, right? So that that difference Needs to be clear for especially for those of us who are developing the integration But also for anybody any administrator that is running OpenShift or Kubernetes on OpenStack You're gonna see during this presentation that I use the OpenShift word OpenShift is deployment of Kubernetes. It's a Kubernetes cluster. It involves more things but essentially They are exchangeable in in the context of today's presentation, right? I'm only talking about a Kubernetes cluster, right? Okay, so then integration points the essential integration points between these two platforms are compute storage and network, okay Not that as compute I mentioned if you're familiar with OpenStack Nova and ironic, right? So virtual machines bare metal for a stretch. There are at least two integration points one through The block devices through Cinda and another one for object through Well, you can call it Swift several skate way and then on the network we're gonna expand on the network a little bit today You can use Octavia in Courier we're gonna talk about courier today Let's see an example What do I mean with this integration that we are working on? Well? If you are using Kubernetes and You need persistent volume and then you create a persistent volume claim You don't really care if it's open stack underneath if it's AWS or what is it what you care about is? The persistent volume right and what happens under the hood is since the two platforms are Integrated deeply integrated as I was saying before OpenShift knows that it needs to tell OpenStack Hey, can you create a volume for me and what you have it? Tell me what it is so that I can present it to the pod that requested it and that's it That's essentially it and to make this transparent for the developers Okay, so this will be how it works in this case you have OpenShift as a platform above in here OpenStack platform you have a virtual machine and if you're familiar with how Cinda works so Through the Cinda API this volume is gonna be created It's going to be attached and it will end up in the pod where the app is is running Okay, so this is an example. Let's see this a little bit bigger how? typical logical architecture Would look like of OpenShift and OpenStack so in here you have OpenShift on top OpenStack here and There are a few important things here one of them is You have your applications, which is the only thing you care about really and these applications can be running on virtual machines directly Or on containers right and these containers can run at the same time on virtual machines or on be a metal nodes Yeah, and Also, you have a number of other services here. You can see Cinda, Swift, Octavia Courier that are part of this Architecture that in a sense they are used again transparently for you when you install this This is what's happening, right? They As I said are complimentary one exposes the services and the other one consumes it So yeah, this is how it looks in terms of how it looks in terms of a logical architecture Let's now see I do it more technical today It's not gonna be super technical, but just a little bit and If you want to do this well, you will need to an installer and Before you proceed with the installation you want to I'm gonna want to know what do I need in here to deploy OpenShift or Kubernetes on OpenStack. So when we've done this, this is what we ended up with in terms of Recommending how or what do I need from OpenStack? I put a QR code in there so that you can go to the link directly But this is what you need We in this latest say inception with what we call the OpenShift installer that installs a Kubernetes cluster on OpenStack, on all platforms as well, but on OpenStack and we did it with What we call OSP 13 which is OpenStack Queens We tested all of these we realized that well, we needed three master nodes two worker nodes With that list, it's not like we recommend these sizes But at least these sizes these flavors that you're gonna use an OpenStack unit object storage There's something that you need right now so that all of this is based It's using coro s coro s uses an inception an inception How is it called the the Cloud unit of coro s ignition an ignition file and that ignition file will temporarily be stored in Swift Okay, so that's why you need Swift so far in a coro s image and then In terms of OpenStack resources I'm not gonna list them, but when we finished we saw that this is on a you know plain cluster right after the installation What's used so that is so that you are ready When you go and do this One more thing Something and this is again as part of the installer the OpenShift installer Which is what's doing all of this you're gonna see a bit more about the installer right now You know that Kubernetes OpenShift requires a DNS Internally for for example so that each master knows about each other master right each worker notes out all the other workers and This is internal DNS right so with the installer We install a core DNS and mDNS that's running on the nodes Right, you don't have to worry about that this just happens if you're interested in How it works you can look at the containers But as as an administrator, you know that this happens and that you don't need to worry about that You don't need to mess with R&O slash ETC hosts or anything like that in terms of load balancing Similarly, there's another container that will do the load balancing internally for you so that you have And it's using by the way HAProxy and keep alive the so that you can have the VIPs For the internal API the interest traffic to the workloads right and the internal DNS requests So I think this is good for you to to know the selling to understand how this works then again as an administrator You don't care and that's a good thing because if these didn't exist you would have to come up with a way for the cluster to do this Okay, so now on the networking Courier what is courier? How many of you are familiar with courier have heard about it? Yeah, some of you what not everyone, okay? so courier is let's say part of the network integration and As it says in here, it improves the performance Let's think about why this exists If you think about how a part talks to another part If you use what we call the OpenShift SDN You will see that it creates a VX LAN tunnel and all the traffic goes through this VX LAN tunnel Now if you're familiar with OpenStack You know that OpenStack is exactly the same to communicate a virtual machine with another virtual machine a VX LAN tunnel is created and if a virtual machine has Say a master note or rather a note a worker note and another machine on top of OpenStack Another worker note with pots that need to talk to each other what happens that you have a VX LAN tunnel inside Another VX LAN tunnel That's double encapsulation that doesn't sound great, right? It happens all the time anyway But hey, we came up with a way of fixing this so that you don't have in the two headers, you know too much space used and Too much packet fragmentation, right essentially if you're familiar with all of these, you know what I'm talking about But essentially what you know, and I'm gonna show you some numbers is that this makes the communication much faster When running OpenShift when running Kubernetes on OpenStack It's it's a CNI. It's a container network interface On on Kubernetes and as it says in here it provides the communication, right between Pots when running on OpenStack now this is Recommended most of the time but not all the time It's recommended when you have tenant networks Right, and as I said when you have tenant networks the VMs in them communicate each other Through VX LAN tunnels, and this is the problem that you want to solve the double encapsulation VX LAN on VX LAN, right? So when you have this it's recommended, but when you don't have that when you don't have the tenant networks and you're using VLAN based Provider networks where the OpenStack virtual machine is connected directly to the network the physical network, right? That you have with other Parts of your network, not just OpenStack, then it's not needed. It's not like it's not recommended It's it's not it doesn't solve the problem that it's been designed for I don't think that it does It's integrating with Octavia. How many of you know what Octavia is? Okay, so Octavia Not everyone. It's the load balancer that as a service that provides OpenStack and Octavia for every load balancer that you need will create a virtual machine and The virtual machine as small as it may be Is it still a workload running on your hypervisor? So say that you expect a lot of Services exposed with Kubernetes, you know when you scale an app and Then you need to load balancer that distributes the traffic among all the You know little parts that you have in there among the notes So it will create a VM. So if you happen to have not many hypervisors perhaps the performance Improvement in the network that you get through courier Can be great But at the cost of an overhead in the hypervisor because of the virtual machines that it's running, okay So if you're still with me You know that Courier will be using Octavia. It's a load balancer internally. It uses trunk ports as well and Well, we tested it and we made it fully supported with Queens with OSP 13 Okay, a little bit more about the courier internal architecture So here you can see so this would be an open stack compute note and in this open stack compute note You have a virtual machine. This virtual machine is is an open shift or Kubernetes note and I'm sure if you've ever been debugging a little bit virtual machine some open stack. You've seen the VR int OBS, right? Which inside the virtual machine it's just a zero or it's whatever Okay, so this is pretty much how it works the CNI of courier is connected to the pods and to the outside is connected to neutron And this is where the magic happens, right? So this this in here is what will do the more as translation saying hey, you don't need you have a VX LAN channel there So I'm gonna use this VX LAN endpoint to connect these pods that wants to go to another VM So that's essentially the idea, right? And as I said, it's integrated with both Octavia and Neutron Okay, I still with me Yeah, okay So we did recently I think just before the summer Some performance tests to see the game because yeah, we know that it's faster But many times I was getting the question of how much faster I should I care? Well, this is one of the tests that we did Between pods on the same hypervisor. Okay, not to separate hypervisors initially wanted to see if per se Is there any performance improvement? That's a little bit we did with three types of packet size 64 1024 and 16,384 and yeah, yeah, there's a little bit of a performance, but perhaps not enough to justify Well having a team developing career our community, etc. But yeah, yeah, there's a Interesting improvement, but where we noticed the most improvements is when you have To have when you have to run Data across two different hypervisors. This is this was really impressive. We knew it was faster But when we saw the numbers it was like nine times faster. Well, it seems yeah, not having fragmentation using the same tunnel It's really a very decent improvement Okay, we did many more tests not just this and and We published a blog with you know what we found some reflection on it and well here you have a link for you to read it It's very interesting Okay now More reading I'm gonna give you more reading if you're still interested in the subject and that's a reference architecture So we said look we people are doing this Why don't we do it as well and then make some recommendations of how do we see? good practices a reference architecture that you can use as the basis for your own architecture and we did it with well OSP 13 that's that's OpenStack Queens and OpenShift 311 that's a Kubernetes 111 if I recall correctly right and we're working on a new one by the way But it'll be a similar idea. What you're gonna get here. You're gonna find a lot of advice on How to do it how the services work with each other in detail? So that's a very interesting document if you want to do Discombination Now let's let's try to install this. Okay Ways to install it and first I wanted to talk about the OpenShift installer the OpenShift installer will install OpenShift That's what its name says It will create a Kubernetes cluster for you and there Essentially two ways of doing this depending on the level of customization that you want or need one is well I want my installer to do everything for me All I want is to point the installer to the infrastructure in our case to OpenStack and Let the installer decide everything create the virtual machines Create all the services the security groups Install everything and when it finishes it will tell me how to access great. So that's what we call the IPI installer provisioned infrastructure There's another way of installing this with installer which is well No, I'm gonna create all the resources myself I'm going to create the virtual machines here and there of the size and that size, right? So that instead of being provisioned by the installer, it's provisioned by the user. Okay, so we start with this and Well, this is essentially what happens with the first one the installer provisioned You have an OpenStack cluster installed and these the installer will create the open shift cluster for you And that means that before installing the OpenShift cluster. It needs to tell OpenStack. Hey create the networks The internal load balances and DNS I already explained this is not an open stack These are containers which makes our lives a little bit easier, but great for me the instances deploy coro s Etc. Etc. Okay, so this what happens and At the same time very obvious all of these will have to be done by a user Previously to proceed with the installation in the other Installation experience. Okay, so far so good if you want to do it on OpenStack We we have documented this here on on github Initially the in the first iteration when we develop this we've done the IPI type of installation We are working a lot actually right now on the UPI type of installation that you have in here take a look try it out and Well, let us know what your experience is you can open issues in github for The installer and we we are more than happy to hear your feedback and help you with the with the process if you use Red Hat and You go to try. OpenShift.com with your Red Hat account You will notice that there are a number of platforms and there's this platform here It will do essentially the same as right now It's the IPI the same as we describe in the IPI installer right everything downstream fully supported now Don't with this more or less second part of this talk in this case more about Be a Metal and It's still Kubernetes OpenShift on Be a Metal one. I wanted to Spend some time talking about Be a Metal In the past I would say three years or so since 2017 maybe 2016 a little bit. We've seen a huge interest in general on Be a Metal That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. We've seen how Amazon is provisioning Be a Metal nodes for you if you want some of the clouds as well We've seen how in the OpenStack service the numbers of OpenStack deployments with ironic, which is the Be a Metal service in OpenStack has increased by a lot and I haven't seen the report for 2019 but I would expect that it's still growing in The reason well, there are many reasons right but some of the reasons that we have identified are In particular Kubernetes on Be a Metal. That's one and that's an important one This is not new but HPC high performance computing That's that's very common since the beginning where you say well a virtual machine is not enough for me Or when you need to have direct access to Dedicated hardware devices right. Yes, we do a lot of PCI pass through etc. But sometimes in the scientific community scientific community they need to do this or for example, I know of a Customer that's using ironic to test different CPUs like you create a CPU You make some changes in the CPU and you want to compare the results of you know a test with the previous CPU and the new CPU and They use ironic to do these that that's another pretty cool use case All right and then let me talk about the OpenStack Be a Metal service ironic that's the logo there Which was actually designed by a colleague at Redcat as well some time ago and A number of features in here I'm gonna cover some of them real quick because we don't have a lot of time But it's just for you to see the power of running be a metal in the private cloud as if it was a virtual machine So essentially hardware life cycle management great reason, right? You have your hardware inspected in there with all the Details for you to access whenever you need For you to deploy and deploy with any operating system that works on on your bare metal nodes That's stored on your open stack essentially as if it was virtual machines And that's amazing to be able to do this with be a metal. That's that's really an achievement What else we do cool things like what I was saying inspecting the inspection that even extracts information from the network using LDP What else well, yeah It uses the same type of images as you would use with virtual machines and QCao 2 It does things like routed deployments We're gonna see a little bit of that Multitenancy like with proper isolation between networks Auto-discovery a number of power management devices are supported. Let's see a very cool one This is multi tenants and I wanted to spend some time talking about this because this is not an easy one essentially what we do here is What you have multiple tenants Accessing the same notes, right, but still they are separate tenants So you want to keep them separate from one another? Well, you need a way to isolate the bare metal nodes at the network level So how do we do that? Well, we need to go to the switch and then we need to change the villains where you associate one tenant to one villain one or more villains, right and dynamically a provisioning time because a note will be now owned by tenant a and Maybe later when tenant a leaves that note tenant B comes in and uses that note again Right and you want to make sure that tenant B cannot access to the network of tenant a right do that with villains It's a very simple Concept we've been using this for many many years But now you need a way to do that in an automated way in in a private cloud in this case, right? so essentially this is what we do and If you know about open stack and you turn well, we do it with an ml2 driver that it's based on ansible an ansible networking and You don't need to worry too much about that just to install it and you know that it's it's using ansible and What it does is you boot the bare metal nodes as if it was a virtual machine You say open stack server start da da da Okay, and then the ml2 plugin configures the switch it goes to the switch and it says hey Configure a provisioning network in there So configure this villain and during the installation of the note you use a separate villain that nobody can access Only the administrator. Well, you decide that right? But that's the idea that nobody can access that Once the bare metal node is provisioned this plug in goes back to the switch port and Configures a switch port to the villain of that tenant. Okay, so this is a pretty cool Feature and the same way you terminate the node, right? It's it's clean. It's a very cool feature and it essentially makes bare metal the bare metal experience on par with that of virtual machines another one and and I also wanted to dedicate some time to this one because this is Very used by the way if you have seen This network topology, how many times have you heard or how many of you have you heard the leaf and spine? network topology Yeah, some of you have been working on Networking teams right with them. So it's very popular. It's very popular among Network teams and in here what you do is well You have your ironic notes that are capable of provisioning all these notes only that if this is leave zero This is leave one and this is leave two each leaf It's a separate network. It's a separate subnet. It's a different subnet and you know how ironic works, right ironic will provide the eight by DHCP Networking to the notes to then allow the installation of the image in them, right? But when you provide the HCP and you have different leaves Each of them with its top-of-the-rack switch the DHCP request when this guy wants to put up Needs to go through a top-of-the-rack switch Right. So well, thanks to a technology called the HCP relay, which is even in the most basic Top-of-the-rack switches. We can do that. We can forward We can relay that the HCP request and then it will go to the spine switch and all the way to Ironic, right? These which might be simple to understand it's not easy to implement, but we did it and it's there in ironic now Another one this this is Perhaps not easier to implement, but it's it's more dependent on the driver that you use for example redfish and Well, it will allow you to set some by your settings Right. So this is another feature that you have in in ironic another very cool one It's the notes auto discovery in this case when you add new notes to the to your network to your data center You rack them up power them on make sure that the nick is connected to the right boards etc and They will be auto discovered Registered to ironic and if you want and there's an example in here You can do things like hey if you detect that this note is a del note configure this password Right, you can do things like that You can do a number of things. There are a number of parameters. This is just one of the examples of Data collected during inspection, right? But you can play with this if you want and if you don't do anything At least you have the notes discovered for yourself. So it's pretty nice and then redfish redfish is If you've seen I'm sure you know IPMI so redfish is a similar idea With many more features and also API driven 100% API driven many vendors have implemented All the famous ones Redfish in the VMCs. So you can now power on power off remotely, right? Make some changes change boot order set some bias parameters through redfish and ironic supports that Okay So this is an introduction to many of the things that you can do with Ironic so that then if you want you can also use it to deploy Open shift in it and well, this will be pretty simple Put a link in there. I'm gonna explain in a second But essentially you have your open stack with ironic in it and you use it as you usually will use it Right to deploy bare metal nodes in this case. You're gonna deploy bare metal nodes That then are gonna be used To build an open shift cluster, right a Kubernetes cluster. So what you do is you deploy them Pre-deploy them and once the operating system is in them with the network and everything else that's needed to have them online You point the open shift installer to them and you have everything installed Do you remember about the two types of experience that I mentioned before for installing? Open shift user provisioned and in solar provisioned in this case. It's user provision because you as a user provision the In this case the operating system and once everything is up and running with nothing in it is when then the installer Will install what's remaining to create the cluster, which is all the open shift itself needs dependencies Okay, so in this link You will see how we explain To do this installation on bare metal It doesn't talk about ironic in particular. It says Have the notes installed. Maybe you can install a DHCP server and a pixie server, right? Or, you know, you can install different ways in different ways these bare metal nodes So one of them and a very cool one is with ironic Okay, for many of the reasons that I explained before Okay, and to finish how much time do I have some time? Okay? a New project a new project that has Connections with both open stack and Kubernetes So this project is metal cubed Metal cubed is focused if you remember about the four-foot prince. I was talking about before We've been talking about the private cloud with open stack But the private cloud with virtual machines a little bit of bare metal as well, but this is focused on bare metal Okay, so metal cubed so metal cubed uses ironic and It also uses the Kubernetes operators framework Are you familiar with the Kubernetes operators framework? Okay, so it's a way of automating Knowledge that you would have to do manually otherwise like create a bare metal node destroy a bare metal node Tasks that as I said before You would do as a human or via the API an operator can automate all these tasks for you So thanks to this interface And to ironic We have metal cubed being able To manage to do host bare metal host management with Kubernetes What does that mean well it means that one metal cubed runs on Kubernetes Right, it's it's you need Kubernetes cluster to be able to use it and it's managed through Kubernetes interfaces Yeah, so Kubernetes interface as well the cluster API. So what happens here? Well You can have You can get or manage machines through the cluster API as if they were Machines in you know AWS right or open stack Okay, so you do this and in particular the operator Will get these requests say that one request is Give me one machine, right and that machine could be an AWS machine It could be an open stack machine or it can be a physical machine in here Right, this comes through the cluster API. Okay, so now the operator says, okay So I'm here to provide bare metal node These requests is asking me to do this Deployment and I know how to manage bare metal nodes because I know ironic and I know that when I want a note I will tell ironic. Hey Install this image in this node change the boot order Tell me when you're done and I will pass all this information Back to Kubernetes to say here you go. I have a note for you I'm over simplifying, but you know, that's what we care about this experience of Having a bit a cloud like experience with bare metal. That's not easy That's and for those of us who have been in the ironic project for a number of years You can see that thanks to ironic we've simplified a lot of this Process right but the process of automating all the interaction with the bare metal All this knowledge is is has been captured by ironic and now is used by this operator and exposed to Kubernetes Yeah Okay, so if you want to give it a go Go to metal 3.io metal 3 pronounced metal cubed and If you want And this is in general and if you want to install Kubernetes in it OpenShift you can go to our GitHub Well, this is the github of the OpenShift installer, right and in the documents One of them is how to install and by the way, this is under the category of installer provision infrastructure So this document Will tell you we're working on adding more detail to that document But if you want to try it out now, it's it's there for you to use As I said before also if you try this out feel free to open issues to ask us questions We're more than happy to learn from your feedback and and if you want to fix code You know, that's always welcome Okay All right, so in summary This is a bit of everything we talked about today Install Kubernetes on OpenStack. You have these URLs in there Courier performance courier is an important integration point provides a lot of performance improvements if you need them I reference architecture for you to learn About how all of these looks like and how to adapt it to your own Use case and to your own platforms Ironic be a metal here You can see well the whole say Features this is more the general documentation About ironic with many details including what I said about the ml2 Uncivil networking driver, etc. Right everything is captured in here and then the middle cubed metal free.io URL for you to learn more about it and With that if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer So do have another microphone. Yeah your presentation said Kubernetes on OpenStack, so thinking about the upside down case like OSP managed by OpenShift, is that possible? so Is that possible? OSP OpenStack as she by Redcut Has its services in containers already Not on an OpenShift cluster, right? Even though if it's it would be technically possible It's not something that has enough value to the end users as to put all that work to have OpenStack on an OpenShift cluster. Everything is containerized though, right? But not as in an OpenShift cluster. Thank you. Sure Okay, do I have more time? No more questions That's another question there I think you mentioned about the performance improvement using Kudu About I mean the communication between different nodes. I guess that this that is related to that something like VxLanFloat of Nick I guess that we can use a NikoFloating feature for VxLan if we do not have the duplicated VxLan So I think this is related to that feature. Is it the same? Is it correct? It's two separate performance improvements One is the offload that you get from the Nick and another one is the lack of fragmentation when you put a tunnel inside another tunnel because you could still have the VxLan offload But only on one VxLan layer, not in the two of them Yeah, thank you Can I just follow on the same one? So the benchmark it was shown so nine times faster Was it in this scenario where you have Courier and VxLan offload of the Nick or is it improvement coming only from the service you created? No, both but but this is always VxLanFloat is always there. Yes. Yes. That's that's why the question Yeah, so it's a benefit combined because you use both of these features. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Okay All right. Well, thanks everyone for attending this session and I hope you find it you found it useful


Definitely Boston strong. The city's overcome because they tried to, you know, how do you put it? Tried to really hurt America, but it only galvanized us, and it's not just Boston. I'm from the West Coast, and when we heard it happen, I think we all kind of really felt that they hurt us all. But after getting sent here from there to hang out with Jeff Bowman and stuff, it was really inspirational just to see how he handled it, and he just make it big strides. That is the coolest thing I've done.