Ladies, if you want to lose weight, do this. Train and eat like a bodybuilder. It's the best step you could take to getting a lean body. This one I heard recently, because Adam said it. I thought you were gonna steal it. I thought you were gonna steal it right there. I did, I took it from you. I read that somewhere. No, I love that because it's true. It's so true.  Bodybuilders are always trying to get bigger.  But the reality is the high protein diet, the lifting weights, the bumping up calories. Trying to build muscle. Trying to build muscle, speed of the metabolism. It's exactly like a linebacker. That one didn't take off. Not really. No, but yeah, I mean, it's exactly what they should do. 100%. And that just did, I think that, and it seems so counter to what I think that that client would think, right? I can only imagine when I was a 23 year old trainer and having a female client come in who was needed to lose 30 or 40 pounds. And I could have just imagined her purchasing training and I'd say, okay, we're gonna train like a bodybuilder. All that would go over. You'd have to wait for the three day cancellation period to be over first. Pretty sure that she'd be out the door right away. But I mean, that's the truth. The truth is that when you are in a position where you are trying to reduce body fat, lose a significant amount of weight, say anything over 20, 15, 20 pounds of body fat you wanna lose, the best thing that you could possibly do to make that as easy and as sustainable as possible would be to speed your metabolism up. And it would in order to do that, it requires for most people, meaning like 99.9% of everybody to increase their protein intake, eat in a caloric surplus and lift weights trying to build muscle, which is like a hypertrophy, right? Training like a bodybuilder. And that is what's going to put that female client who wants to lose 30 pounds in the best position to lose those 30 pounds and keep it off for the rest of life. Yeah, I'll say it differently. Would you rather be able to eat a lot in b-lein or would you rather have to eat a very little amount to b-lein, right? So that's what we're talking about is putting you in a position to where your metabolism is much faster, it's much more sustainable and then you're also lean and lean is different than just weight loss or weight, right? Body weight is measuring total body mass. Leanness, that's what we're all looking for. Like who cares what the scale says?  I mean, you could be, you could weigh very little and be very flabby. You could weigh much more and look a lot leaner because muscle is extremely benched. You're just a lot more energetic, you're more active, you... I mean, it's much more enjoyable in that state than the other alternative approach where you end up just being fatigued all the time and you're just sort of begrudgingly going through the motion and trying to make sure you're still on track. Oh my God, night and day difference. I mean, compare the two, the two, right? Which the common thought around the female client trying to lose 30 pounds is I'm gonna cut my calories, I'm gonna move like crazy, push my body till I can't go anymore. When you're eating like that, when you're eating, you're deprived of calories and normally most people, when they cut calories from where they're currently at, they're also nutrient deprived. So you're not feeding your body the nutrients it needs. So it's gonna, your energy level is gonna be low. You're gonna have rough time sleeping.   You're inflamed. Oh yeah, just, it's such an awful place. And then at that point, it's literally just like who can suffer the most, the longest, you know, in order to try and reach this goal. Whereas if you go the other direction, you are feeding yourself adequate nutrients that your body needs. So, and you're building muscle, you're not training to absolute failure and exhaustion. You should be leaving the gym and you actually feel like you have more energy than when you showed up there, which then in turn helps you sleep better at night, which in turn helps you have more energy throughout your day. It's like this, oh man, it's nine day difference. Cause by the way, we all made this mistake as trainers early in our careers. The difference between the success I brought to my clients and there's a lot of factors that factor into this, but this was the main, what's one of the main ones? The difference between the clients I trained, let's say the first seven years and then the back, you know, whatever 12 years or 13 years was dramatic. When I figured this out, before I figured this out, my statistics were like any other statistic you see with weight loss, right? Like my clients, so long as they were training with me and following my meal plans, cutting calories, doing all this stuff, they would lose weight. Nobody kept it off. The fail rate was very high. In fact, if you look at the data, it's something like 90% or close to 90%. So people lose weight, but then they gain it back almost 100% of the time they'll gain it back. How frustrating is that? And we're celebrating with them like, yeah, we got there. And then it just comes right back. I would lie to myself. I would say it's a lack of discipline. I never said to myself until the very end and this became painfully obvious. And never said to myself like, I'm not setting them up for success. I'm training executives.  And I'm the excuse that I'm making why they gain the weight back is they're not disciplined enough. This doesn't make any sense. Like what's going on and what it was is I just, my approach was totally wrong. I made it unsustainable. The back half, when I figured this out, got the metabolism faster, we worked out less because it was more effective, not harder, just more effective. Everybody thinks more effective means harder. No, it means literally just more effective. My success rate, double. Now it was never a hundred percent because there's always a disciplined component. There's always behavior changes. But I'm talking about 30, 40% would gain the weight back. A majority kept it off forever. That's significant difference from when I first started. And the difference was the approach. By the way, it's not just the muscle that burns more calories. Cause everybody thinks, oh, you have actual more muscle mass. That burns more calories. That's true. That's part of it, but it's not a direct ratio. Okay. So a pound of muscle doesn't just burn X amount more calories.  That's not how it works. If you send the signal to the body to build muscle, you fuel your body appropriately. You get adequate sleep. You don't have any nutrient deficiencies, hormones abalance. So in other words, you're doing this the healthy way. If you do this the right way, you do build muscle, but your body also becomes less efficient with calories anyway. In other words, the same amount of muscle that you have, you could have the same amount of muscle and your body can burn more or less calories. And the metabolism is so complex. There are so many different ways your body can try to conserve or try to burn more calories. One example is your body's ability to warm itself up. So you may find when you go low calorie and if you really pay attention to this, this happens, you find yourself getting cold more often, right? This happens if you lose a lot of sleep too. If you have poor sleep, you'll find you're cold more often because not sleeping, not eating enough tells your body you're under stress. Your body conserves calories by reducing the amount of calories it uses to warm you up. So you start to feel kind of cold. Another one is you reduce movement throughout the day. They've actually tracked people. People don't even know this. They'll track people's movement. They'll bump their calories, reduce their calories. The person's movement will go up or down. And now how? Little things, standing a little longer, tapping their foot a little bit more, moving the arms more when they talk. And those are just the ones we can measure. Then there's all these complex systems in the metabolism. I mean, if you were to look at what we understand about mammalian metabolism, it's almost nothing because it's so complex. Your body becomes more or less efficient based off of its signal. So it's really what you're trying to do is this. You're trying to create an environment where your body says we can burn more calories. This is safe and we need more muscle because we need strength. If you do that and you do it properly, then weight loss becomes a lot easier. It's so much easier to do it the right way than it is to do it the way that everybody else tries to do it, which is they fail. And who figured this out? Bodybuilders. Bodybuilders are the ones that figured this out because their job is to be on stage. Okay, now I'm not saying do everything that bodybuilders do. They do a lot of things that are crazy too. Like human labs. Yeah, but generally speaking, a bodybuilder's goal, and I know it's extreme. So I'm not talking about the extreme crazy stuff. So everybody relax. But if you look at the goal of a bodybuilder, it's to get as not as light as possible. Nobody cares how much a bodybuilder weighs. It's to get as lean as possible and preserve as much muscle as possible. The athlete in the world, then maybe you can label him an athlete, the best athletes in the world that have somewhat figured this out are bodybuilders. And what do they do? High protein diet. They try to do what are called bulks and there's a right way to do that as well. And they focus on strength training. There's a primary form of training. Now they make mistakes as well, but that approach is superior to the typical approach, which is I'm just gonna go start running and I'm just gonna start eating less. Like that is 100% a recipe for failure. You will gain the weight back and it's not gonna work for you. You just, you were talking about like neat as far as like the tapping and like the things that we do subconsciously that we don't even realize that we do. And I guess I would throw this in this category even though I'm actively making the choice to do that, but it's so subconscious that I don't realize it. Katrina and I were just talking about this literally two nights ago. And I've brought it up on the show again. I just want to highlight it because it's like, you know, I've been doing this for over 20 years now. And I'm only now, like really self-aware of how much this makes an impact on me and my life, my relationship, my as far as what I am as a partner and a father in our household, it is so wild how I am at home, movement-wise and helping around the house after a day that I've lifted versus a day that I've not. There is like a direct correlation with, I got to lift in today. When I get home, it's a trip. I come home and it's like, and if I see the house and disarray, I straight it up, I take the trash out right away. How long do you feel like a slug? But I don't even think about it, it's subconscious, right?  And so I just do it. And then on the days, like, and I'm having that day today, like I'm feeling sluggish today, I didn't lift today. I'm tired already. It's like we're not even out of here yet. And I'm already, I can already envision myself driving home right now. This is what's making me think of this too right now is because I'm like, your tags have been sitting too long, 100%. No, no, I'm with you. Like that's how I feel right now. And so that's what this is why this is, is top of mind for me right now is I'm going, like I'm already, I'm gonna put my feet up when I get home, I'm gonna relax.  And then also that impacts my relationship because when my wife, I come home and I'm the guy who comes in and does the dishes and helps out and I'm playing physical with my son. And I'm like, oh, knocking out some things that she needed done around the house. And it's like, and I'm not even squawking about it. It's no big deal. Like it's like, it's crazy how much better we are. And then the times when I come home at a day like this where I'm like, oh, I'm tired. I don't wanna do anything. I don't feel like, it's like, it's, and so the, the motivate and the reason why I'm sharing this is that it shifted the way I even am motivated about training because you see the other, the other influences. Yeah. And at what point, like there, and obviously we have people that listen to this podcast that have been, that have been lifting for as long or longer than I have. At some point, the PR, you know, chasing the body building abs, getting on stage, proving I'm more ripped than the next guy, running faster, jumping higher. You don't care. Yeah.  And I'm not taking away from how amazing it feels to be the most ripped guy there or how amazing it feels to hit a PR on a squat or what the, like those are all cool and all, right? Those are great. And those are all fun to train for and chase after. But, you know, it takes a, it takes a real level of discipline and consistency to hit those things. But to just say, make the choice of like, I'm gonna go make sure I make, get movement in and lift and do a couple of things to create good physical activity, maybe get a little bit of a pump and get some blood flow going. Man, that doesn't take a lot of effort to do that. And what impact it makes on the rest of my life. Put you in a healthier state of mind. Oh yeah. It's the same struggle, you know, and I noticed it. And that's one of those things like I, I know now I have to, like I'll go solve it. Like I just know what I gotta do. And like I'll just go do specific movements or things to help like at least set my posture right. Like get my muscles some stimulus. It doesn't necessarily have to be like that rigorous of a workout or anything. It just has to be like, I have to trigger that response and get my body like in a different state. So that affects my brain and affects the way I think that affects the way I communicate with people. It's just all like this. And out stream effect. Sleep too. Big time difference. If I have a day when I lifted that night going to sleep and the way I sleep is like a whole different game. You know, this is the main, this is one of the main reasons. First off, this is the game. This is what you have to figure out if you want to be consistent long-term with exercise. If you only connected to how you look and even performance at some point that's gonna, you're not seeing the full picture and it's gonna be very hard to maintain. At some point that's gonna, you're gonna, that's gonna decline. And at some point you're gonna, you're gonna capture all that. Yes, that's right. Yeah, sometimes you're at one point you're gonna.  Once you start to connect it to all those things, it becomes so valuable in a real way that it's hard to, it's hard to stop. One of the reasons why I work out so early in the morning, one of them is it's easy for me to be consistent. I've got kids, I've got work. If I do it at the end of the day, I'm more likely to not do it. Things can get in the way. So consistency is up there. But the second reason why I do it first thing in the morning is because it sets me up so well for work. Like what we do, right? We're on camera, we're doing the podcast. It requires a certain level of energy and creativity and fluency. I'm not working at a desk where I could kind of be lazy and tired. We're doing a show, so I gotta feel good. It's a very strong, like I've connected it. Like if I work out before we do this, way better. If I don't, way worse. It's just a strong motivator for me because of those things. I think it's important, and obviously the point of us bringing this up or why I started this conversation is that I don't care what your current goal is and hopefully everybody reaches whatever their current goal is. At one point, you wanna evolve to a place that you've now attached it to these other things that are normally bigger than those goals, right?  Nothing wrong with trying to run faster. Nothing wrong with trying to get on a bodybuilding stage. Nothing wrong with any of those things, right? But when you learn to connect it to I'm a better father, I'm a better husband, I'm a better coworker, business partner, I'm better at my craft. You know what I'm doing? I'm in a better mood, I'm a better human. Like in like, I get more stuff done. Like, I mean, when you start, I sleep better, which that has another trickle down effect from there. Like when you start making the connection to all those things, and then it reframes your approach. Like it doesn't always have to be this, I'm chasing something crazy or I gotta crush myself. That actually makes your workouts more appropriate.  I know how many movements I need to do to get that blood flowing enough to get those benefits. Like, I don't have to go, I mean, I love an hour workout with a great pump and felt like I pushed some levers and moved some stuff. Like, I love that. But it doesn't actually take that to reap the benefits I just said. I can get a great night's sleep, be a great father, great husband, be productive at home and actually just do a handful of movements that I just get going and get some blood flowing. That'll do it. This is why I say that fitness, you get loosely put nutrition in there, right? Fitness nutrition.  That's just the bottom line. Everybody can improve in almost all aspects by simply becoming a healthier person. Of course, health is a large category. It's not just athletic performance and movement and diets, it's also emotional health, spiritual health and the like. But if you're healthier, you're better. If you're less healthy, you're not so good. That's the bottom line. I think our space though has really, has skewed that perspective for most people. Like, the average person would define as healthy is like this ripped cover model looking person. And the truth is that person is so out of balance and obsessed to look like that. That they're, okay, they're- Sacrificing you- From a physiological place, they might be probably healthy, which some of them aren't even there, but on a physiological they are, but maybe emotionally, relationship-wise, all these other things are out of whack because they're so focused on that. Most of us that have pressed that level, okay? And I can speak to this because I was this, right? Like we're driven by these deep rooted insecurities that drove you to be that obsessive about obtaining a look and you did it. And it's tough because then it's this self-fulfilling thing where I do it and then I get praised for it.  And it's so crazy. It's like, dude, you don't even realize that. That's not truly what health should kind of look like. No, the leanest I've ever gotten, I was definitely not the healthiest. For sure, not the healthiest. Probably in my whole active career, I would, you know, when I got down to like, what I don't know what I got down to 3%, 4% body fat, I was probably at some of the worst physical health because of the things I had to do in order to accomplish it. Now I do believe though, there's tremendous value in intermittently taking the body to some of those extremes though, right?  No, I don't know about 3% for a guy, but I think it would be smart for a guy who's consistent to try to get to single-digit body fat and for a woman to get to the high, mid-teens, just to see what it takes. I think a healthy place for a man to sustain most of his life, most of the time, is somewhere between 11 and 15%, maybe 17, depending on the genetics, right? So 11 to 15, we're gonna say give or take is a really good place to maintain. And then you occasionally dip in the single digits and reap the benefits of that. And very rarely you allow yourself maybe to go higher than 15%, but you always kind of keep yourself in that place, never allowing yourself to really go to any major extremes. To me, that's probably the healthiest version of you. Totally, 100%. Today's giveaway on YouTube, the program we're giving away, Maps Symmetry, very popular program, here's how you can win it. When we post this here on YouTube in that 24-hour period, that first 24-hour period, put a comment underneath, make it a good one, and subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. That enters you to win Maps Symmetry. One more thing, we got a huge promotion going on this month, it's January. Everybody wants to work out, so here's what we did. We put together workout program bundles, that's two or three or more programs put together, and then we discounted them massively, literally 300 to $350 off the price of each of these bundles, here's what they are. New to weightlifting bundle, body transformation bundle, new year extreme intensity bundle, and then body transformation bundle 2.0. If you're interested in finding out more or signing up, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, here comes the show. All right, are you, Adam? We brought up on the show, Justin and I, who are the, you know, we're up to date. We're up to date on weird stuff. Yeah. Okay, last time we talked to you. Weird authorities. We talked about the Miami mall. Oh my God, this is still going? No, no, no, no, it's not still going. That's just the last thing we brought up. Okay, okay, got it. Like, it was crazy. Lots of eyewitness accounts of beings or aliens or something. Nobody knows, no video of anything. Okay. A hundred cop cars. We just want you to pay attention. Just, just, that just happened. Just pay attention. Okay, I'm telling you, 2024 by the way is, by the way, by the way. You start off with a bang. By the way, do you guys know, cause do you guys know what year in the original Terminator, when the war starts? Like when the machines take over and there's the big nuclear war and Reese comes back in time. He's like, ah. I'm assuming 2024. 2024. Yeah. Anyway, so, so check this out. James Cameron knew. Yeah, he did. I think he's part of the Illuminati. I'm pretty sure he's been labeled.  I'm sure by the time this airs, it'll be all over other social media. By the way, X has become, you know, formerly known as Twitter, is becoming the social media platform where you're gonna get all the stuff nobody else has come in. Breaking news. Yes, cause it's obviously blocked into other places. But anyway, there was a, what's it called? It's not a synagogue. It's a Chabad. What's the word, Doug? Anyway, it's kind of like a synagogue in New York City. And it's, it is one of the main hubs of the, of this particular sect of the Jewish religion. And. Chabad. They found tunnels going from underneath to other places. And there's video of police going in, trying to go in the tunnels, close them off. The, you know, the, the people who congregate there, they look like Orthodox Jews were like rioting. Don't do it. Oh, I didn't see the rioting and then throwing a bunch of wood, pews and stuff like that. Like, what was that all over? Bro. Now they're saying, their argument is, and here's where the conspiracy theory where do these tunnels lead? Okay. They're like, oh, we built those tunnels during COVID because you guys wouldn't let us go from one synagogue to the other. The evidence shows that the tunnels were built after COVID just six months ago. So like, yeah, right, not true.  And the mattresses had like weird soil stains on them and stuff. And there's video of this.  And it's like, it's like, now I know the conspiracy theorists went nuts with it. Well, I mean, isn't it believable though? If, okay, if it was true that they couldn't go from synagogue to synagogue back in COVID, that after COVID happened, that we would get together as a congregation and say, here's the deal. If this ever happens together, we're not going to allow this to happen. So let's build these tunnels so we can. It's a good cover. I'm starting to believe Adam's Illuminati. He always goes on the other side of the tunnel. He never wants to go along. I don't know. I just drawn to logic. I'm always like, they saw aliens. I'm just drawn to logic. It could be that they thought they saw aliens. They just drawn to logic. How many times can you play devil's advocate for a turn the devil? That's what I wanted to know. Adam, if you peel your face off at some point. I mean, I've never even, I've never even heard them being connected to trafficking. Are they being connected to trafficking already? Like, why would that even be an? There's a lot of old stories and stuff, but who knows, right? Who knows?  And the mattresses had like. There's a whole world that we just don't realize. And for me, it just like, if you keep looking, it's almost, it's terrifying. So if you look at like national parks, for instance, and just look at all the statistics and data of people that have gone missing in national parks, like every single national park in America. And they found so many different tunnels, so many different ways that people have had access to like, traffic people out. And so they're starting to kind of, you know, put two and two together.  And it's like, it's crazy. This particular spot by the New York City. If it just goes from one city guard to the next, how's that really, how you. That's what they say. I don't know what. But they haven't seen it. I don't know anything about this. Yeah. So, and this is what I'm seeing right now. Obviously- Like wouldn't it need to be have like a tunnel to like a bay or like an airport or something? So they still haven't gone into detail on where the tunnel goes and what the exchange yards or whatever. And I'm more fascinated by how does someone build tunnels like that, that fast? I know. Like what do you got? What do you got? I don't know. But this particular spot and location apparently is a headquarters for some of the most influential people in the world that will meet there from all over the world. So that's what the speculation is like, what's going on? What are they doing? Oh, I know.  That's a little too close to the angle. It's almost like all the dirty laundry of the world is going to be like revealed this year. I feel like, you know, like, was it that big interview with Cat Williams? Oh, yeah. We just kind of brought that up. I haven't watched, dude, it's two hours and 45 minutes. So you watched some of it, right? I've watched a ton of clips. He's just throwing person after person under the bus. And he's saying Illuminati. He's saying... So, okay, so help me understand. You guys, I said it, and I knew Doug knew the name. I think Justin knew the name right away. Mensa? Mensa, yeah. Yeah, it's... You have a high IQ. A level genius level, almost. So tell me... I think 120 is the IQ for that. So I mean, do you apply for it? Do you... You take a test? You take an IQ test. So like anybody can take an IQ test and then if you hit a certain level of it, you're considered... Something like that, I think. Okay. I know one person like that and he is brilliant. So Google Cat Williams and I heard that he's... I heard he's part of that. I heard he's Mensa, which... You don't take that. To me, that's the part that adds credibility to a lot of the stuff that he's saying if he's got this really high IQ. Because of course, all the people that he called out are trying to discredit him.  He's a... What's his name? What's the comedian that he came after? Oh, Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart, you know, that was asked like why he hasn't said anything about it. And he says, do you engage with the circus or do you just watch the circus or whatever like that? So everybody's like just like... Dismissive. Yeah, dismissive or trying to discredit him. Nobody is really trying to like argue what he's saying. Yeah, or like come back at him and tell him all the bad things he's done, right? Like there's no dirt, they're slinging back at him, which is interesting. Yeah, so I find that interesting. So what was he saying? What did you see in the clips? He's just saying that like there's in Hollywood that their Illuminati exists and is real and that like almost all these actors and actresses at one point have this opportunity to choose one way or the other, good or evil. And he gave, he started dropping names of situ...  This is, I experienced these. These aren't me saying I heard of a story. Yeah, like he's saying like me and Ludacris had this option. Me and Kevin Hart were in this situation. Me and so like, he was dropping all this dirt on people that he... This isn't the first time.  But I mean, the guy that was responsible for robot chicken, he threw him under the bus. Like he threw a bunch of like Hollywood actors under the bus for a lot of stuff, for going through rituals that... It seems like he is. And he apparently has an IQ of 163. Did you look up the CV's part of Mensa? According to this. Yeah, that's right. Wow, wow, he's really smart. I used to...  You cannot read a book by its cover, huh? No, I did not know that. I used to love Cat Williams. So I love to stand up. But his stand up, he does not come off like... He's not a super sharp and witty guy, always. Yeah, he's not a chappelle, though. He's not like... Right, right. And he's not a political like guy who's like dropping like really subtle. And I think he's got pretty straightforward comedy.  Like I love his stuff, but I had no idea he was that intelligent. But I mean, for everyone that's trying to discredit him, you got to give him some sort of credit then for being that level of intelligent. Like that's... Well, intelligence doesn't mean integrity. You're right. But still, though, it means something. Intelligence doesn't mean integrity, but he's literally telling stories about his integrity. I was going to say, that's his entire interview about his integrity. That's exactly what it is. It's like I passed up millions of dollars and chose the other way versus where everybody else tends to go. Well, I mean, okay, if this is true, if it is true that there are people that try to control things, then they're going to look at the most influential aspects of the world. And entertainment is at the top. So is the news. But entertainment is at the top. So here's the thing that you... Look up Operation Mockingbird. If this is true, I feel like... And of course, how do I say this without... Okay, I'm going to remove ourselves from this conversation. Okay, Logan Paul's and like your other big YouTube podcast influencer type people. The future is they're the most influential people, right? So at one point... They'll get captured. They will be or we should have some first-hand stories ourselves of hearing stuff or seeing stuff if that's the future. So let me ask you this, first off, do you know what Operation Mockingbird is? Yeah, you've brought this up before. Yeah, a large-scale program in the United States, CIA, that began in the early years of the Cold War and attempted to manipulate domestic American news media organizations for propaganda purposes. It's a real thing where they try to get into the news to use it as a way to propagandize Americans. Apparently, they stopped doing it. And this is where the trillions of dollars they brought up last time. Well, I mean, we're just... Where are you just going? I'm not going to name-drop, but we were at a... In Cabo, we were with somebody who quit working for a major news network outlet. Because they were influential. And she said exactly that, all during COVID, that they had a script to read. I know. I mean, that's the famous video that they showed where everybody was excited, the same exact lines. That was the creepiest video I've ever seen. How weird would this be, right? So I don't think we're anywhere near big enough for maybe if we ask those guys, they're gonna tell everybody. But let's just imagine, like something happens, we go real big. Oh my God, mind pump's huge. And then someone walks in. All right, guys, you guys are pretty influential.   Or do we? What do we do? What do we do? Do we play along? Escape? You're what you're bringing up. I would be terrified. What you're bringing up is my point, is that we are moving into an era where Hollywood is not influential anymore.  Yeah, but that doesn't mean they won't capture social media got people. That's what I'm trying to say to you. Yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm saying that they're gonna come after. I'm spiritually happening. They're gonna come after social media influencers, YouTubers, podcasters, because that's the future of influence. And so it's only a matter of, if this is true is what I'm saying, that it's only a matter of time before we should have firsthand experience of it. Funded by big soda companies, and all that stuff that kind of got revealed. There's people that are still just like, the moral ethic side of it is a little bit like, there's gray area there. They'll make decisions. And so it's like a matter of time before even bigger companies are approaching. So I mean, there's a couple of things that we're talking about that are different here, right? And I've already thought, I've already admitted with you guys, when it comes to these conspiracy theories, when there's a bunch of money behind this, like I'm on board, like that it's fucking, absolutely. Money is a very powerful motivator for people to manipulate, to cheat, to steal. I mean, that has been happening since the beginning of time. So the opportunity for somebody to create things or do things to manipulate the media or manipulate groups of people so they can make more money, I'm all bought in on that. Why wouldn't they use the same tactics? For what? For, I mean, for you- If you have a nefarious intent. Well, I mean- Like control, power. Yeah, why wouldn't people that want power, ultimate power not use businesses. You know, the best case for what you guys are saying is that once you're at a level financially, you're not, money doesn't isn't- No, you want power. You want power and control over people. And so that's the best argument for where you guys go for, which is this like, you know, there's- There's puppeteer who's doing a lot of this stuff. You've ever been in a situation like that? Like one time when I was a kid, and when you're in a situation like this, it's, you know, you think you know what you would do, but when you're put in that position, it's actually quite difficult. So when I was a kid, I remember we had these neighborhood kids that I would hang out with and they weren't, they were a bit of a rough crowd, but we'd hang out and I was, I thought I was cool by hanging out with them. You took the candy? No, I went out, we went somewhere and they wanted to break into cars.   I had a similar experience. So what I literally did was I lied. I literally lied and I'm like, I gotta go guys, it's late, my mom's gonna get mad, I made up an excuse and I took off because I could feel the pressure. Like what are you doing in that situation?  I got hung up with that, you know what I'm saying? And I was the one who took the fall for that. Now at that age, you know, of course I did, looking back, it's like, oh my God, look what we did. You know what I'm saying? Like it was so bad, right? And then obviously when I met the families and I had to go talk to the parents of the daughters that my friends shot in the doorway and like how true. With the paintball guns, not real quick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess I'll try, I shouldn't tell a little bit. It was not a real context. The short version of the story is that I was a- She got shot at it with- I was a sophomore in high school, my friends and I, we were actually a Friday night playing video games at the house and one of my best friends has had an older brother who was a senior and they rolled up in their suburban with their paintball guns and told us to get in the car and let's go, we're gonna go around and we're gonna go shoot some people up with the paintball guns.  Yeah, okay. And we're not agreeing that we're gonna do it. We're like, sure we'll come along until we climb in the back of the suburban and went around looking for people and coming up on people that were walking on the streets and then once he got so late that nobody was on the streets anymore, we decided to go to doors that we knew or people knew of like, oh, that's so-and-so, he lives there, let's go knock on their door. And we knocked on a door to a house that had a daughter who was the same age as my little sister's age who was at that time eighth grade. And so it was an eighth grade girl who answered the door at like midnight. Bro, saying this as a father now? Oh, I know. Do you just feel like, whoa, what do they do? I mean, as a father now and knowing that if that was my daughter or my son, yeah, I would chase the suburban down and boy, those boys would not like for me to catch them. So, and I get it, you know, as a sophomore kid at that time. And then of course, as a kid, you're thinking like, oh, I didn't do it. So it's not- You start to make excuses. Yeah, you start to justify it. So that's, yeah, it's really easy that you can get sucked in and pulled into a situation like that, that hindsight, you go, oh my God, what was I thinking that was awful? You had a situation, Justin? Yeah, it was like some guys that were, I was hanging around with, I didn't really know a couple of the guys. And of course, they're the ones that like, wanted to do all the crazy stuff and steal stuff from people. And I was just kind of hanging out and rolling and we were walking through the neighborhood. And so I was in a neighborhood where there was a lot of houses that were like cabins that were like seasonal. And so, you know, I knew certain people weren't there and my other friend knew, and we were just going to walk through. And these guys wanted to break in and then they started just breaking in, broke, bust the door open, walked in there and all. And I literally, at that point, I was just like so conflicted. I'm like, dude, I was like, I can't be a part of this. And I just like took off and left everybody. But it was just like, It's hard. Yeah, cause now monster size, I felt like, you know, they're calling me mama's boy and all the stuff for a while.  That was like my trigger, dude. Like, so they call me mama's boy, you get hit in the face. I'm laughing because you said that before. They used to call you mama's. Why did people call you mama's boy? Because I think somebody, because he's obvious when he gets mad and that's all it took. It took one friend to call him that, see how he reacted. That's such a weird insult. Check, I'm going to call him that. Someone called me mama's boy like whatever. Exactly, bro. Cause it's like, I try to do the right thing.  You have to remember to call him that.  Such a mama's boy. My mom and I have had, you know, our run-ins too and at that point, you know, I didn't want to be associated. I'm like, no, you're, first of all, you're wrong.  Hey, you speak of stealing in cabins. You just remind me of another story when I was a kid. This was, this was a good, this is not as bad of a prank as the shooting people with paint balls. We used to, where there's places that we used to go camping. One of our favorite pranks to do is to go, when you're in a campsite area, there's normally like two or three public restrooms in the area. And at like, I don't know, right around seven o'clock or eight o'clock, we'd go around all the bathrooms and we'd steal all the toilet paper out of it.   Yeah, you would hear them there. You'd hear them like, you'd hear the things like- So funny! Opening like scrambling for like- Can I tell you? Hey, I'm, this is, this is repentance, right? This is what I, this is what I'm gonna try. I'm gonna repent right now. I didn't do it, but I was a part of it. Same thing, public bathroom. Me and my buddy went to, we went to the bathroom. We're both, you know, pooping at the same time. So we're in the stall next to it. And he goes, hey, watch this. And he just poops on the floor next to the toilet. And so we're crap, we're cracking up. We think it's so funny. It's such a teenage boy thing to do. You know what? As an adult man, as a father, an adult man. What a terrible, what are you? What kind of person are you? And then we're laughing because we're like, oh, the guy's gonna come clean it. He's gonna have to clean it.   What is wrong with the teenage male brain? Mine's way better, mine's way better. Yeah, mine was better. Teenage sucked.   Frickin' kids. God, you know what I mean?  Oh God, I feel so bad for it. I wish I could take it back. I can't, anyway. Did you guys see, are you guys seeing the feud that's happening right now between the billionaires, Elon versus Mark Cuban? Oh my God. It's always funny to me to watch. It started over, what's it called, DEI? Is that what it's called? Okay. And Elon is like, no, they have to be based off of merit and Cuban is making the argument, well, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.  If I see, you know. Oh, there was an old video. Mark Cuban saying- No, I saw it, yeah. And he's posting it and literally Elon said, Cuban is a racist. By the way, Mark Cuban is on X and they're doing it to each other and Elon owns X. I have to tell you guys, there's nothing I love more than billionaires. Billionaires better than anybody. I love billionaires going at each other. It's just the funniest thing in the world. I love it. Like little kids.  Yeah. So, I mean, we talked about this, remember a long time ago, like, there's so many things. I wish maybe somebody can recommend a book because I would love to read a book on this.  Just for the sake of it.   Remember when we were talking to Mark Mastroff and I asked him how many companies he has. He's like, I don't even know how many companies I have. Right, right. You get to that level. You have hundred companies. Just running it. Right, right. But you know, and then within those companies you've got probably a cousin and an aunt, a mother who runs it. You've employed all your family and friends and like it's connected to you like that, right? But you whatever, you don't care about it. It's running.  You know what I'm saying? Or I buy the competitor and put it out of business. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying?   Yeah, dude.  That would be hilarious. You know that. And you know, they got so many moving parts. They're so busy. They're not thinking about one of their hundred companies that their distant cousin is running or what like that. And you know that's gotta happen all the time. They get nasty too. Who is the family, is it the Hearst family that had all the newspapers at one point? The Hearst family had lots of newspapers and were competing because they had paper mills. Were competing with hemp factories that were producing paper at a hemp. So the way that the Hearst family got rid of them is they started printing propaganda pieces in their newspapers about marijuana and the immigrants are using marijuana and then they're wanna come after your women. And he would print all these propaganda pieces because they own news state newspapers. To get marijuana to be illegal to put his competitor out of business. Yeah. Crazy. That's true. Well, that's the other thing. When you have that kind of money, another thing you can do. Like let's say, again, one of your examples, one of your business. I'd play a blimp over your house. You know what that you're knowing?  I could take a $10 million loss on my food and beverage company that competes with yours just to put you out of business. You know what I'm saying? And then I raise the price as soon as you're out of business.  Cause again, back to our original point of once you have all this money, it becomes a power move. It becomes, you're more, you're more, which really that's. Yeah. You're gonna lose $10 million all of Soros' moves. Yeah. Oh God. Let's add all those up. Yeah. I mean, that's Cuban and Elon though right now is literally that, you know? It's just him going back and forth. I shared the one that he made the comment about the diversity and inclusive thing or whatever and he said, obviously he sold the Mavs, but it was still funny. Oh yeah. He made the comment about. He's like, you should have a, he's like, well, if you're so inclusive, I'll believe you when you have something. Like I'll believe you when you have a short Asian woman. No, no, it was the, oh Babylon B made a meme of, what's the guy from Game of Thrones? Oh. Yeah. Peter Dinklage. Yeah. That's the actor. Yeah, yeah. That's his name. He made him say that he should hide. They said that. The Mavs held up. Yeah, yeah. He's the new power forward for the answer. That's hilarious. Hey, speaking of successful companies, did you guys, okay, I think we might have talked about this already. Butcher Box's giveaway. So they, every month they do a giveaway. Do they have an option this time? Yes. Doug, can you pull it up? I want to make sure I don't miss this up. This is one of the best, biggest giveaways they've done. If you sign up for Butcher Box, they will give you either two pounds of ground beef, three pounds of chicken breasts or two pounds of salmon for free in every box that you get every month, plus $20 off. This is, that in my opinion is one of the best. Wow. One of our influencer friends, I don't know who it was, I was on social media today or on Instagram today and I saw them posting and they posted like, they just had a gang of beef. And they were talking about that, you know, what are you doing to stock up for 2024? Cause of the direction that. Oh God. I mean, there's some, there's eight. I was off that. Butcher Box should put together a survival box. Yeah. Awesome. Off-air, complete transparency. I was, Doug and I were chopping up back and forth about, you know, investing in Wagyu beef or Wagyu beef, however you pronounce it, right? So that there's, you can do that. You can own shares or own cattle. Now, do you think it's going to go up in value? Of course. Because they're trying to, they're attacking me so bad. Bro, what do you, what do you think happens to the marijuana market when they make marijuana illegal? Yeah. It just makes, and why has it gone down in price so much? Because it's more competition. That's right. So you think the whole like, oh, it's bad for the environment. Like all the propaganda about it is going to increase. That's not going away. They are really on a mission. It will increase the cost. Because what they'll, and one of the ways that they'll do it too, because it'll do it in two ways. One, it'll create more demand for it. And then there'll be less people. And low supply. And low supply, less people that are providing it. And then also probably, they'll probably increase regulation and hoops that you got to jump through in order to even produce meat. So then you're going to have people that do produce meat that now have to pay for this extra certification. Unless it puts them out of business, then you lose your money. Well, I mean, yeah, that's a possibility. But do you really think that everybody's going to go not eating meat? No, people will find a way and they'll pay more. So this is a comp, so these are like shares in a company? That's what you guys are looking at? No, or you could buy cattle. You could literally buy, I think it was like $10,000. And then we get a certain amount of cattle and it's like 22. You get, you get a- So you own the cows, but they're being raised and taken care of. So it's like $10,000. I think, and again, don't quote me on this because I was just like briefly reading it. But I think it's like $10,000. And it gets you, I don't know how many cattle, I don't know if that's one or whatever. Then you got to pay for its feed for the next 20, 21 to 22 months. Then when it's- Slaughtered. Yeah, slaughtered. Then you, they sell it, sell it off. And then you get the profit. Yeah, you get the profit. Or you split it with them. Like, well, how do they make money? There's a management fee, right? So there's- Oh, wow, that's interesting. Very interesting. So you make the profit off how much they sell it. You give them a management fee. That is great. So it's 60% profit before expenses and management. Now, imagine feed for the cattle for the years of like that. That's going to chip away at it. Yeah. But I mean, 60% before that. And then a management fees, I don't know if they take a percentage of it or whatever, but those are some killer margins. This is interesting. Where'd you see that? It's really, Robert Kiyosaki. So I saw, I don't know if you, did you see that he's making headlines right now? Yeah. He's got some debt or something like that. Yeah. It's, so I should read to you. So I send it over. I always, whenever I see like articles like this, I always shoot it over to our good buddy, Chris Nagibi, because to give me like read between the lines here. And I send it over to him. And I'm like, hey, you read this yet? He goes, yeah, cute leveraging rhetoric of the bank hatred to gain market buy-in, but he doesn't have that with one bank due to his legal lending limits to have it all. In other words, there's a lot of news around banks failing and stuff like that. And so the article is really written to try and just gain attraction and attention. Oh, but it's nothing. Because that's something that he always says. Like that's, I've heard Robert Kiyosaki say that forever. Like I'm never afraid because all my, I'm leveraged to the T with all these different banks, right? And you can only leverage up to so much, right? So like the only FDIC. He talks about how to use, how do you had to leverage debt in order to make money? Right. And why he feels so confident in that is that the likelihood that we would ever allow, you know, 20 different banks to get closed or shut down is not going to happen. I mean, look what happened when, when we were the closest to that ever happened, what did we do? We bailed them out. That would bring everything to a great level. Right. So anyway, so he says that all the time. And supposedly like an article came out that read his total debt, which is like 1.2 billion. He's leveraged that, right? So he has that much debt. And his saying is like, I'm not afraid because I'm attached to all these banks.  We need to get attention because people's fear right now. Right, right, right. So that's really, that's really, but anyways, that in that article, it also talked about all the places that he's invested in. All right. So I love to listen to, you know, Rich Dad Radio, which is Robert Kiyosaki and Dave Ramsey are two of my favorite people, besides my buddy, Christy. The opposite approaches, right? And that's why I like that. Like I tell everybody that I am, so why would I not take my own advice, right? Like I believe that you should always do that. That's in fitness, that's in business, that's in investing, that's in everything. Like I love to take fine authorities that have counter opinions on something. And have a track record that's proven. Yes, and listen to both. And I think Ramsey makes really good points about certain things. I think Kiyosaki makes good points about things. I love my buddy, Chris Nagibi, who talks a lot of business finance stuff. So anyways, that's why. And in his article, they were breaking down all the places of money. And I've always heard him talk about Gold, Siller, he's in crypto, he's of course real estate, he's all these places. But for the first time I heard him say, they say what? Yeah, and so then I started searching it. I sent it over to Doug. Doug did a little bit of digging himself and then found like. I'll throw some chips in there. Yeah, I just think. And so if you believe in the market that it's here to stay, it's been on the rise for quite some time now. So now granted, there's risk like anything, the cows could get mad cow disease and die or something like that could happen to them. So you've got all kinds of risk. Well, I see what you're saying. Speaking of animals, did you hear about this longevity drug for dogs? What? Under a clinical trial that's like they've, I don't know if they've proven exactly that it's like super effective, but it's really promising, I guess, and it's making its way to the next stage. But basically it's so it's the company's called Loyals and it's L-O-Y-001 is it's an injectable based treatment that targets of growth and metabolism hormone called IGF-1. So that's like. Wait, does it reduce IGF-1? So I don't know.  Yeah. So that would probably. So IGF-1 insulin like growth factor. We have two when people take growth hormone. It's the IGF-1 that goes up that has the anabolic effects. It's an anabolic hormone. So it will fuel cancer that's already there, but it doesn't cause cancer. However, like you said, dogs are very prone to cancer. Yeah. And so maybe they're saying, let's block this. And you know what, they would make them more brittle. They are, but don't you find that interesting that this is not more of a conversation that that's only recently? Oh, it's because come on, they fall. Dogs eat in 100% processed food diet. Oh, yeah. 100%. But I mean, it wasn't like that 100 years ago. Like there wasn't dogs getting cancer all over the place. Don't you find that? Maybe, was it? Maybe dog.  I don't know. I wonder what the data. Yeah, tumors, cancer. Yeah, it's been they've been riddled. Like again, yeah, it is. You can attribute a lot of that to the feed for one thing. And then I mean, I'm sure exercise is another component. There's like a lot of environmental factors. I've I'm pretty sure I've I've seen a chart that literally follows the same as shows that they're right in line with you. Like in humans. Oh, but they speculate it's like eight to ten years, like extension of life. What, eight to ten more years? Yes. Wow. That's what it said. What does it say, though? Yeah, so cancer is more common now in dogs. It's been increasing. So it's kind of mirroring what's going on with humans. Yep. Happening at younger and younger ages as well.  There's a lot of stuff out. That's what I mean. It's like, how does that? I mean, we act like it's this massive riddle for humans, right? And it's like, oh, we can't figure out what it is. Well, we're fatter, we're less active, and there are there's a combination of chemicals that did not exist, that we're exposed to a lot now, that we were not humans were not exposed to. Yeah, just, you know, five, six decades ago, period, end of story. And they're getting shittier food than us. Terrible. Yeah. Dog food is pure process. It'd be like if you ate cereal all day, and that's how you ate it. So I actually think that why it mirrors the humans is because I think more and more people give their give their human food to forget that too. Yeah. I think scraps and yeah. Yeah. I think it's more because of that and lack of exercise. So with that, that the animals aren't getting to you. If you're if your owner isn't exercising, your dog's probably never seen that meme.  And then one wolf talking to the other wolf and he goes, hey, I'm going to I'm going to go try and make friends with those humans. Maybe they'll feed me. What's the worst that can happen? And then it goes 200 years later. It's like, oh, yeah. I can't breathe. Run back to Alaska. Hey, you had this experience, Adam. Now I've experienced. So I've drastically, drastically, excuse me, reduced and almost completely eliminated. I had one slip up, completely eliminated cannabis. So I was using it on a relatively regular basis at night and I stopped almost completely, except for, like I said, one slip up. And I used Ned brain blend the other day. Oh, because my body now is sensitive. I love their brain blend. Okay. So I liked it anyway, even when I was using cannabis, I would notice, right? But I took the normal dose that I normally take, except now I must be more sensitive. So I took it 45 minutes later. I was like, did I eat an edible? What did I do? Like did I actually, like, yeah, I really felt it. Like really felt it. You know, I wonder why that's not something that they communicate more. And I wonder, I'd love to hear from our audience who is not a marijuana per se user, but then uses their products. So my dad, so my parents use it. Yeah. My dad might- I'm not my mom so the same thing. Okay. So both of my parents used the capsules, the little tiny gel caps. And my dad will take one, maybe two. Now one time he took four and he did not like it. He took, it was too strong. He took four and he's like, something's wrong. I don't, my dad's super sensitive to everything. Something's wrong. I don't feel good. And I'm like, well, how many did you take? He's like four.  You might be feeling a little bit stoned. So one for him and he feels, because he doesn't use cannabis. But it's like the, like other CBD products, you don't feel, you take them. It's like, did I take any of you?  I felt mad even when I was smoking every day. And, but when I came off, I was super fascinated with like, oh, there's the effects.  If you do the sleep one, you're go, don't take it before driving. That's how strong it is.  That's 100%. They have, I think they, I think they, I don't know if we could talk about it, but I know they've got some new products coming out this year when they were at the Christmas party. I've been working on it with them. Oh, are you? I remember when you tried them. Well, I know, oh, yeah, that's right. Okay. But we can't say what it is. Yeah. All right, have you, okay, they've been, obviously I've had an opportunity to try those. They've been in here and stuff like that. Are you, is that moving along? Yeah, it is. Oh, okay. I didn't even know that. Speaking of things that are, that I feel. So the peptide dihexa, this was formulated originally for people to mention Alzheimer's. It is a peptide that is about seven to 10 times more potent than brain-derived neurotropic factor. So BDNF, it's like miracle grow for the brain, right? It makes neurons grow. It causes synapses to connect. Like you have a lot of this, your brain thinks faster. It's more moldable, you're less depressed. If you have low levels of it, more pain, more fatigue, more forgetfulness, et cetera, right? So we're always trying to do things to raise BDNF, things like exercise, good diet, better sleep. When you're younger, you have more BDNF. Anyway, dihexa is like BDNF except much stronger. Now I tried it before from our people at mphormones.com and they gave me a really low dose and I thought I felt it, but I'm like, whatever. They came back and like, try it again. We've been giving people this dose, much higher dose and people are noticing. About five days in, this puts all the in the Neutropics to shame, like you've got some coming, right? I do, yeah, I'm interested to see if I have that same response because... Did you both already try it? We did in combination. It was at a low dose, plus I was taking it with C-max and I felt the C-max, didn't know if I felt the dihexa. Is the dihexa the red pills? Yeah. Does it say dihexa on it? I think so, I think they were red pills. Let me see, let me look at it. That's not it. It's not? I didn't see red on the inside. It's your personal. Oh, it is? Yeah, yeah. And you're taking two of these? So I, no, I've always took one, although they did say to take two the last time. Oh boy, wait, how long have you been taking these? I mean, I'm stocked up on those. Okay, listen, I started with two and they told me I could titrate it up to three to four. The guy said, four is really high if you have a day where you really need to concentrate. He says, I like two to three. So I did two for a while. After day five or six, I was like, oh man, I'm on fire. And I don't mean like a stimulant caffeine effect, like alive, awake. Oh, interesting. Feel good, mood lifted or whatever. I moved it up to three and that's like five. Oh, I see it. I took one this morning and I have had two and I did have a good experience the time I took two before, so. Oh, I'm doing two a day or three a day and that puts all the other Neutropics to shame. Even the Seamax? To shame. Yeah, really? But it takes a second. It took me about five to seven days. See, I was on this high with Seamax and then yeah, it's starting to kind of like taper off. So I'm not getting as much of that, like initial, like, oh my God, my memory recall, I could, I felt like it was all kind of coming back. Here's the biggest things I noticed. I am using words I haven't used in a long time. Like, you know, you like, you'll use a word. Sounds funny. Like, you'll say a word like earlier. Like earlier you said fret, you said don't fret, right? I can't see it. But every once in a while, don't you find yourself doing that? You use a word? Yeah, you impress yourself. Yeah, no, maybe not. But did that come out of me? Yeah. Did I just say ludicrous? No, so there's that. Then there's also memories of stuff. Makes you think you have Mensa. No. Have Mensa? What is it? You just have it. Cause you're at that level. It's the next level. No, I'm also having memories. Like, I'll remember things like, oh yeah, when I was a kid, I did that and this happened and like faster recall. It's really interesting. Well, I can be excited. Yeah. I'm the one that has the most head trauma. So I want to intervene.  I mean, based off of that, you should feel the greatest effect I would think on things like that, right? Well, yeah, it was a doctor parsley was talking about like psychedelics and things and like treatments.  Like I definitely think at some point, like it might make sense for me to, you know, go down that rabbit hole. I know you played football for a long time and hit things with your head a lot, but what's, is there one time that you remember the most where you hit, you got hit and you look back and go, that one, that one did some change. That one, that one changed. Yeah. Do you remember one? Oh, yeah. Oh, what was it? Yeah, I was playing so Cal and I was on kick return.  You should go try and catch the ball. If it goes over your head, you got to let the guy behind you kind of field it, right? And this is like the first time I was playing on kick return. And so I was just like, first of all, I did two things wrong. So I went for the ball, which got kicked over my head, but also too I turned inside instead of turning outside after I caught the ball. And so as you're turning inside, like all of the people running at full sprint are all condensing down into the middle. Oh, so you turned into somebody. Yeah, so you want to be able to kind of like work your way to the outside of the sideline so you have open space to run and you have blockers and, you know, everything's kind of set up for that. So there was no blocking set up for where I went. And so I turn in and then I got hit by like three guys at the same time right in my head and it literally like launched my cleats. Like I was depleted and I was just like off, like in La La Land immediately. And I was just like, you know, seeing things and I went to the sideline and I probably should have stopped playing, you know. You kept playing? Kept playing. Oh my God, Justin. Got a safety and like I actually made plays. I got a couple of sacks in that game, went to the emergency room after I was done. Wow. Cause I was, they did like the athletic trainer at the time should have been fired for this. Let me let's be honest. Wow. I should not have been on the field. I was eight, not 18, I was 17. Yeah. I'm such a model. You just said something that I think it's actually, it would be a really, I wonder who would be the most qualified person to ask this. Maybe you have some perspective around it.  Like you, like you just admitted, right? Like I did two things wrong. Like how often do you think when someone gets hit or their bell rung really hard? It's gotta be a lot. It's a personality thing, right?  Right, right.  But how often do you think it is? The fact that the mess up is why you got the injury. Yeah, yeah. It's gotta be high. High majority, yeah. It's gotta be high. Way high. Like in boxing, like hold your chin up and you're going to sleep, keep it down. You know, I have a buddy who got. Yeah.  Totally. I mean, who do you blame on the throw that it's a quarterback's fault, right? Cause there's times where a wide receiver gets lit up. Because the quarterback threw it in a way that. Yeah, well, yeah. He threw it. He threw it and he would have to reach and extend. Yeah. It's a cross even invulnerable. So you do have to place a bit of blame on the quarterback. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of not that person. So there's gotta be some exceptions to the role. Did you feel weird for a while after that? Yeah.  Oh, yeah. So I was actually in class and it was, I had to have headaches randomly and then it was just so hard for me to concentrate. Oh, that's terrible. I was like, I was like, you know, I didn't think anything was wrong with me, obviously. Cause like back then it's like, nobody even thought of that as a real injury.   I used to pinch just to get the headaches to kind of like go away a little bit. Oh my God. And this mentality persisted even into my college career. So it wasn't like that was an isolated incident. So I'm really like coming back into like somewhat of a cognitive functioning state. Honestly, it was like a haze. I think that's why it was such a grind for me to get through school because like I literally like put myself in a position where I had like a learning disability after that. Oh, wow. I mean, I might as well wear a helmet in class. You did get a safety afterwards. So you unlocked a superpower.  Tireless. Typical momma's. Not a momma's boy, dude! Listen, if our friends at phormones.club can hear like send him extra die hex on us, please. I'm gonna eat all of it. Let's get this fixed. Hey, speed of the football. Let's shout out our buddy who we had today. Oh yeah. What a treat that was. Love it. Oh man. Great, great. What's his, what's his stuff? That was such a fun interview for me. What's his page? Is it Kula Sports Performance? Kula Sports Performance. With a K. So Kula Sports Performance, one of the best athletic trainers. His personal one's Brian Kula. So he has a Brian Kula Instagram and then his Kula Sports Performance. So his personal one's Brian Kula on Instagram. But you know, we knew it, right? Like, we get a lot of people, of course, especially when we have someone like this, oh, you got to interview someone, so is trainer. Oh, we'll get this guy on the show. Everybody's got an opinion on who we should talk to. And like, you know, we're pretty particular about, especially when it comes to coaches and trainers who we want to talk to, right? There's a lot of garbage out there. Yeah, selfishly, like if, you know, if we see somebody who we're really curious, like if they have a training philosophy that like, we go, oh, that's intriguing or that's interesting. I want to talk to that person. Or if you recommend somebody, and I look at their stuff and I'm like, that's trash. I don't know why am I going to bring them on the show so I could make it look dumb or we can argue. It was amazing. But I remember when we first saw the stuff that he was doing with Christian McCaffrey and I was like, oh, dude, this guy is, he's right in line with Smarzo. It's so refreshing to see it. And of course he's connected to them. Of course they know each other and their friends. It's like, you know, it's like, that community is pretty small. And so what a treat to talk to him today. All right, check this out. There are herbs called adaptogenic herbs. And what they do is they improve your body's ability to deal with stress. All right, what does that mean? Well, stress is what exercise is. An exercise tells your body to build muscle, get stronger, become more fit, burn more body fat. Thus, adaptogenic herbs improve your body's ability to adapt to exercise. By the way, the data shows this clearly. Well, check this out. There's a company called Stress Guardian or a company called Bioptimizer that makes a product called Stress Guardian that takes 14 of the best proven adaptogenic herbs, puts it in one supplement, you take it daily, and now suddenly, your workouts don't feel as hard, you're stronger, you recover faster, and you get better results, period.  So this product, Stress Guardian, is one of the best on the market. Go check it out. StressGuardian.com forward slash mind pump. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Samantha from New York. Hi, Samantha, how can we help you? How you doing? Oh my gosh, hi, guys. This is so exciting. How you doing? My face just got red. I've listened to, I'm good, how are you? Good, good. Good, I always hear people say that they're so nervous and I've heard time, I'm listening. I'm like, how could they be nervous?  I started the email to you guys saying to the voices in my head every single day because I'm literally thinking of you guys almost 24-7 whether it's I'm listening to the actual podcast or I'm following your programs or I'm thinking about what you say about food every meal. So it's really an honor to be here and thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk. Thank you so much, thank you. I think about Justin every day too, like that. Please stop. I'll be in the showers. All right, so what's going on Samantha? Yeah, so I'm just gonna go through a little bit of history about myself and I can go into my question. So I know you guys have done a lot of episodes on back pain. I've listened to almost all of them and I feel like I have a question that hasn't really been answered yet but into my fitness history. So I was a cheerleader at a very young age and I did that for about 10 years and I think I started at like five or six and I remember eventually we started throwing girls in the air and then having to catch them from very tall heights and then sometimes if the stunt was done incorrectly the girls head. So I remember having back pain for the first time at about 12 years old and I remember seeing a chiropractor for it and then I don't really recall being in pain for the next 10 years so the issue kind of resolved itself. So I turned to running for my main form of fitness until about four years ago when I got into hit classes and I loved the intensity of hit. I loved what it did for my body and my mental health and it really taught me a lot about like different muscles and a lot more about this but of course when I started doing hit again my back pain came back and it's been better since. So because I didn't wanna rely on classes and wanted to teach myself more about fitness I started that's when I stumbled across you guys and started doing a few of your programs. I ran Maps Prime and Anabolic last year and I'm currently doing symmetry but my back pain is so inconsistent. Sometimes it's fine. Other times it's the worst ever and the pain travels. I've been told I have scoliosis and I've been told that I don't. I've been told that I have sigatica. I've been told that I don't. Chiropractors didn't help and I finally went to a doctor and got an x-ray and he said to try physical therapy which is obviously as we all know just strengthening certain muscles. So I found that physical therapy I thought it was gonna be a very expensive option but the main thing is that I was gonna have to stop all of our other fitness if I was gonna do physical therapy and to me that was just not an option and I know you're not gonna wanna hear this but I need to work out pretty intensely for like my mental health. I even said at one point I'd rather be in pain than lose the progress that I've made. I've fluctuated a lot with like weight and I've had eating disorders in the past and so it's like my biggest fear to gain weight or to get out of shape honestly.  So I guess the question I'm asking is there a universe where I can continue intense fitness while also healing my back and continuing to strength train by doing that do you think there's a possibility I could heal my back or it will potentially make it worse and then also are there other things that could be doing better like using back support, priming more certain movements, avoiding certain movements like static stretches and stuff like that. Less room to hit for sure. Yeah, this is gonna be a bit of a complex question answer. So let me answer the first, let me talk about kind of the root thing that I say. I also feel like you know the answer is coming. Yeah, that we should identify, okay? So by the way I can, what you're saying resonates very strongly with me. So I can really relate, okay? I have the same struggles when it comes to exercise and body and stuff like that. And the challenge is from the outside when I'm able and I'm not always able to do this but when I'm able to step outside, there's a false alternative that you've created for yourself and the false alternative is this either I work on fixing my back pain or and lose all my fitness progress or I continue to move forward, deal with the pain and stay fit. Now let me tell you why that's false. It's false because if you don't deal with the back pain then you'll get none of it. So in other words, the real options are this, fix the back pain or you'll not be able to work out anymore at some point at all. And that's definitely down the line if you continue down that path. Now I know that sounds bleak. So I think there may be some options for how we can kind of maybe go in the middle a little bit. I need a little more information on your back pain. So you've got, you got imaged. So there's no disc issues. There's no structural issues. Go ahead. Sorry, there's some, it didn't seem too concerning at the time but potential disc issues in the future. Like I said, it was like potentially arthritis in my lower back down the line and first try physical therapy. And if not, then we'll reconsider surgery. But I think what made me kind of put that aside and not take it as a big concern is that it's so inconsistent. Like some days I can rip through PRs and some days I can't even bend over to like, pick something up. So I was like, it must be something I'm doing like a movement I'm doing. It's muscular. It's muscular. Getting inflamed. Yeah, it doesn't sound like a structural issue. Okay. And then when they say, oh, potentially that doesn't mean anything unless it's actually something you can see. So it's probably muscular. The most common areas that were muscles that would cause what you're describing. I'm not saying this is exactly what it is, but a majority of the time it's either so as. So there's a muscle called the psoas. It starts with a P. So it's P-S-O-A-S, iliosoas. This is a hip flexor that goes through, kind of through the body and attaches at the lower back. And when it gets inflamed at the insertion by the spine it's low back pain. Okay. So there's that. Then there's another muscle called the quadratus lumborum, the QL which is another muscle that attaches on the side of the low back which is kind of where the psoas attaches as well. And when that gets inflamed, then you get low back pain. And the reason why it sounds like it's muscular is because of what you said. Sometimes you feel like your back's fine. And another time it's like, oh my God, what happened? Can you identify any exercises that are more likely to cause this problem? I mean, almost always if I do a lower body exercise but then sometimes I'll do a deadlift and feel fine and it's not until later in the workout when I do like a chest press that I'll start to really feel the pain. Or sometimes the other day I felt fine the whole workout but then when I did a pigeon pose at the end a static stretch, it like hurts so bad. Okay. Yeah. Okay, there's a little lateral stability. I don't know. So I don't know if I'm like solidifying the pain that's already there once I stretch or once the workout's over. I really can't pinpoint it. Okay, so what might be happening is there's some instability going on and once your body kind of identifies this the muscle ceases up and it starts to feel painful and that can take an hour. It could happen the next day. Symmetry is the right program. She's got the right program. I would say, so what are you doing now? What's your workout look like? Symmetry, she said. That's what you, how long have you been doing? So yeah. Yeah, I'm in phase three right now.  So I think I did, I'm still doing walking lunges. Even the walking lunges hurt. There were a lot of things in phase two that felt different. It didn't heal me, but I was like, oh, this is a new feeling. Like, you know, some of the single leg stuff that we did. Make keeper. So, you know, but the pain hasn't gone away. I do windmills, so I've created my own prime based on prime that I do before the workout and I've added windmills. I'm kind of finessing that to see what hurts and what doesn't. Right. I've tried doing, you know, glute bridges. In the windmills, yeah, they feel a little tight, but I think for the average person, I'm okay, but it definitely is not. It's a little painful. I did do froggers and that's where I felt really a lot of tightness in my hip. Okay. So it's really, I believe it's hip. No matter what advice we give you today, I definitely want to get you in the form so we can actually see you move because right now I know we're just guessing and we're trying to figure something out. I do feel like that we can get to the bottom of this. It's definitely muscular and it's definitely something that we're probably, there's weakness and instability somewhere and I do think that we can get to the bottom of it. Going back to Sal's point, they're very much so as a way for us to strength train, address this, still keep your gains or get, yeah, there's, but I do, we have to address your, dare I say addiction to intensity. The running and hit is not serving you. At all. At all. I mean, at all, it's not, especially your situation. Here's why I didn't get worse and worse and worse if you maintain that kind of mentality. And even if you are, you may be doing, you don't even realize it. You might've been doing symmetry and actually making some good progress in the right direction, but then your hit, if you're doing any sort of hit and running, could be setting it right back. So you're not even letting yourself apply an adequate rest period in between. I'm actually not. I'm not doing hit. I'm just sticking strictly to, sorry, to symmetry right now. Good. What about running? Are you running? No, I've been doing the stair master for cardio and then the elliptical because it's not as hard on my back. Okay, so the enemy of stability based issues is fatigue because when you have a recruitment pattern that is not serving you, the second you get tired, you're gonna revert back to your old recruitment. I don't care how focused you are on perfect form or whatever, it's gonna go back to that. So off the top of my head, okay? If you were my client, now this could change as I train you, but off the top of my head, I would limit, I would eliminate all lower body exercises and have you do the sled entirely.  And that would be it. That's all I would do for the lower body until we solve this issue. I wouldn't do lateral exercise, I wouldn't do bilateral exercises. I wouldn't do anything else. Now the sled is gonna be very safe and the lateral drives and drag backs and pushing forward is gonna work the stability of the core in a much safer way because there's no eccentric part of the- Gives you all the contraction without the impact there that's gonna inflame your supporting muscles. Yeah, so you could literally do your upper body stuff. Then when it comes to lower body, you push the sled, pull the sled, lateral karaoke or lateral walking. Two blocking and that's it. And that's it. I like the sled because even with two blocking, that's more hip, but if I'm using the sled and I have it attached here, my upper body, it's gonna involve some of my lateral stability. And then for core, I would do rotation exercises first. I mean, that would be a majority of it. And then- I love that you're priming with the activator. I love that she's priming with the windmill. That's gonna keep that in there. Yep, now if you really wanna solve this, I would find a really good, like again, if you were my client- Bro, we're gonna get her in the forum, Dr. Brinkson there. There you go. Get in the forum, post videos of you doing- Tag Dr. Brink. Yeah, I'd love to see a squat. I'd love to see a windmill and viewing from the side, front and back. Like put that in the forum, tag us, tag Dr. Brink. And then together, we'll probably be able to pinpoint what's going on better than that's kinda guessing right now. Yeah, you need a really good movement specialist to work with you. That's how this will work. And a good movement specialist will be able to make it incorporate a workout. The reason my physical therapists tell you to stop working out is because 99.9% of the time, people completely erase the work that the physical therapist did with their crappy workouts. So that's just 100%. So a physical therapist is better off saying, don't do anything, just come see me. And I totally get that. So, but a good movement specialist will be able to say, here's your workout. And here's what you can do. Yes. Yeah. Which you need to know. I mean, that's amazing. The forum sounds great. And I have like one on the sled note, another quick question, if you guys don't mind a bit of time. Sure. Okay. So I guess running through these programs, I do live in New York City and I have a very packed gym and there's limited floor space, there's limited cables. So as far as like following a program verbatim, and I don't know if you've answered this yet or not, but can I go off course? And I kind of only have the sled when it's available, when someone's stopped using it and there's only one cable machine. So like right now following symmetry, sometimes I'll be at the gym for so long waiting for that to become available. Like how much room can I kind of like maneuver around and still get like the same benefits? Like can I go off course a little bit if it means saving me time? With what we're talking about, upper body, who cares? Okay, yes, that's fine. But lower body, no.  I guess I'll do walking dumbbell lunges. That's not the same, right? Yeah, so we can't just replace that. But you can start your workout and then, oh, the sled's available. I'm gonna go over there. That's exactly how I do it. What I would do is I'd keep my eye on it and do all the other movements. Whenever there's a jump on it. Yeah, yep. All right, cool. That answers that. Yeah, you got it. Yeah, no problem. Okay, well, yeah, I hope I can get to the bottom of this. Thanks for being there again.  Doug's gonna give you access. He'll send you over link or whatever to get into the forum. Make sure you get in there. Like I said, I would love to see a squat, a body weight squat. You don't need to load the bar or anything like that. Body weight squat, front, side, back view, and then a windmill, tag us, tag Dr. Brink. And he may ask for some other stuff, but yeah. Well, that'll get us started. Okay. All right, Samantha. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Have a good day. We appreciate you. Thank you. Thanks for listening. Thanks. You know, situations like this and the people listening are like, oh man, that sounds really complicated and tough. And there are situations like that. I run into those like, you know, I had a situation where I had a client who had this back pain that took us, took us four months to figure out and what it ended up being was weak hip flexors, which is almost never the case. That's why it was so hard to figure out. But typically, usually what the issue is is that the person refuses to stop doing what's causing the problem. Or doesn't, they're so scared to change to do something else. That's why I made the point about that. Cause I wouldn't be surprised if she was heading down the right path in some areas, you know, doing things like the windmill and doing the ladder work. And then just intensified each one of them too much. Yeah. Or like, even if, you know, the option was, hey, do physical therapy for eight weeks and don't do anything else. That would probably work.  And I get it. I mean, there's a better way. Like you can work with, like I said, a movement specialist, but that would probably work. Physical therapists are amazing at solving a lot of these problems. But, you know, you just don't, I was that guy, by the way. I hurt my shoulder. Physical therapists is like, you got to stop Jiu-Jitsu, you got to stop working out. Otherwise you're going to need to get your AC joint operated on. And so what did I do? Cortisone shot, kept training and I had to get surgery. So I get it. I get the challenge, but had I listened, I probably wouldn't have had to get the surgery. Our next caller is Dan from Pennsylvania. Dan, what's up, man? How can we help you? Hey, how are you? Thanks for taking my question. You got it. So every trainer, doctor, physical therapist says, you got to get your eight hours every night. For me, getting eight hours in one shot is just not possible with my lifestyle. I work over nights. I work 10 p.m. to 6 a.m., five days a week. I got three kids. My wife works. So typically what my sleep looks like is, I'm home in bed by seven and I'm up around, anywhere between 11 and 12 and doing whatever responsibilities I have for that day, take care of my daughter. And I typically will grab an hour or two if my daughter lets me a little more before I go to work. I know you've talked about bi-phasic sleep briefly before. I've done some research on it. Some say it's better than getting it at once. I don't know if that's true. Just share what your thoughts are of how I can try to maximize that and still be able to build muscle, burn fat and still reach whatever goals I may have. So all right, let me get this straight. So you start out with, what is that, four, five hours of sleep? About, yeah. And then you get maybe another hour or two? Yeah, typically, try to get two hours. So a grand total is six. Six to seven. Six to seven, but broken up somewhere in the middle there. Correct. It's feasible. Yeah, so, you know what's interesting on the, well the data on sleep is pretty clear. However, there are some interesting variants between individuals. They find some people are night owls, other people are morning people. There does seem to be some research that shows that some people are better biphasic. They think this may have an evolutionary route in the sense that somebody had to stay awake when everybody was sleeping to make sure predators had come around. Night watchers. They were kind of staggered sleeping so that someone was always awake. But for the most part, you're looking at a grand total of eight for most people. So you're in a bad situation. So the question is how do I make, how do I make the best of a bad situation? All the advice we give around sleep would apply for you. Blacked out room, blue light blocking glasses.  So they're like red lenses and they block most light except for red light. And they close up at the top and the bottom. So they don't let light in from the top or the bottom. They're the most effective ones you're going to wear. I would wear them an hour before bed. I would have no food a couple hours before going to sleep. Of course, blacked out room, have the room be cool. You can use something like eight sleep. So eight sleep is, you know, of all the devices and things I've seen on the market besides just being healthy. There is nothing that I've seen that comes closest because it uses AI to monitor your sleep and then it customizes temperature adjustments according to what helps you sleep the best. And so it based on the current research knows, you know, different types of sleep, how to maximize those. Okay, we're finding that 64 degrees at this time, 67 degrees at this time before he wakes or whatever. And it takes about a week to figure this out. And then it's on its own and it will maximize your sleep more than any other, I don't know, hack or electronic device. But other than the things that you've probably heard us talk about, there's not a lot else.  All the interventions apply here. Yeah. The other thing would be, I mean, obviously, because part of this question too is that you want to optimize, you know, building muscle, losing body fat. I don't know what you're doing training program wise right now, but I mean, maps 15 is for you, for sure. That's, you probably are not in a position to be doing like a maps aesthetic type of program where it's an hour, 20 minute type of workout, three to four days of the week. So what are you doing right now? So I actually talked to you guys almost two years ago exactly. I don't remember. It was, I actually have about 30 to 45 minutes of a break at work. Okay. So I was taking half of my hour workout and I can get it in there. We have a pretty decent gym right where I work. I can get 30 minutes and then I get another 30. What I'm doing right now, I've done aesthetic twice. I've done strong, I've done anabolic. I did, I did maps 15, which ended up turning into maps 30, maps 35 was just cause I'm, I do too much.  So I'm doing, it's just I'm not, so I'm trying to do Brett Contreras 36 sets of glutes. So I took anabolic and I split it into upper, lower, upper, lower, upper, lower, when I added some stuff on the lower to try and get. Dan each pump. If this is your normal sleep schedule, less is more. You're not going to get better results with more. You're going to get better results.  Like this is like Mike, I'm going to give you a generic prescription. I want you to follow two lifts every day. That's it. And you can make three or four days of the week. Actually you can do four days of the week, those hip thrust. So make hip thrusts one of those exercises. Yeah, one of those exercises. So you're heavily glute focused and that'll, that'll, that'll work towards your goal. But I only want you doing two lifts, two lifts a day. That's like maps. Just, just get maps 15 and modify it to throw, you know, replace the exercises. Yeah. Every time there's lower body stuff, throw in the hip thrust. You got to understand, Dan, it's not, don't think of it like, oh man, this is the kind of workout I have to settle for. That's not what it is. It's based on my lifestyle, this is the kind of workout that's going to give me the best results. That's right. That's right. So like more than that is not going to get you better, better results. If anything, you're probably hampering your progress. I also see up here that you're on TRT. Yeah. And you're on 150 milligrams a week, which is on the upper end. However, you know, depending on who you're working with and your symptoms and how you feel or whatever, you know, they can go up even higher, which some people would say is TRT plus and it's whatever. Like if you're noticing, go ahead. I've been trying to get my urologist to bump me and he doesn't seem like he wants to. I'll do a thousand if you'll write the prescription for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome. You know, you could go, you could try finding a different doc. Go through Mind Pump Hormones. Yeah, you can go to mphormones.com, see what they'll, they'll put you on. Go ahead. To go through there for also about trying to get more sleep or trying to peptide. There's probably a lot of things that they can help me with more than just the TRT. Yeah, there's a peptide. It's called Deep Sleep Inducing Peptide. I think that's what it's called DSIP. Maybe duck can look it up. I didn't know that. So I tried it. Really? Yeah. When my youngest was a baby and sleep was just really bad, I tried it and it's wild. Like I would take it. No, it doesn't knock you out. You don't, it's not like it makes you all tired. You just take it, go to bed. And I'd wake up after four hours and I'd feel like I got six or something like that. Yeah. I didn't even know that one. Yeah, so it's called, I think it's called Deep Sleep Inducing. Yep, it is. DSIP. You can look it up. It's pretty interesting stuff. Absolutely. Well, it's the first I've heard of that. That sounds exactly... It's the first I heard of that. Down the road, I'm looking for. Yeah, I have the luxury of working with, you know, MPHormones.com and they give me whatever I want. You know, so that's good or bad. Yeah. Who knows? I don't know if it's a good thing necessarily. We don't really know everything. I did tell you guys, it was on the podcast. No, did you know that? I did not know that. I said it on the podcast. I would have wanted to try it. No, I said it on the podcast. I don't remember. All of us are like, damn, I want to try it. I listened to all of them, I'm still on their side. Yeah, yeah. I haven't heard of that either. So it was another peptide called Extreme Muscle Growth.  Build more muscle than your friends. There's one called like Hulk Peptide. Super Podcaster Peptide I've been taking. No, so, you know, I would talk to them because there are peptides, they're not going to replace good sleep, okay? But they can help with the cumulative damage that poor sleep can have on the body and they can make a difference. I've noticed a difference with some of those. So I would talk to them. But what I said about eight sleep, look it up. Nothing's going to beat better sleep. So the idea is I can't get more sleep. So how can I make the sleep that I get as good as possible? Increase the quality, yeah, as much as possible. Cause here's the deal, Dan. There's a lot of people that get eight hours of sleep, but it's shitty sleep. So it doesn't always, it's not always just the time. It's also the quality. And I'm sure you've already noticed this. You've probably had some six hours of sleep where you're like, well, I feel way better. So really learning to maximize that. So the amber glasses, eight sleep, all the other stuff we talk about and then see if you could talk to nphormones.com and maybe changing some stuff on them. And follow a maps 15 type of protocol and you can just modify it. So if the glutes are a primary focus, all I would do is basically make the staple hip thrust. So anytime you do lower body stuff, it would be primarily driven around hip thrust. So you can interchange some of the lower body exercises for that. So, but that protocol is better suited for where you're at in your life right now. Totally. And just because you feel like you can do more does not mean that's better for you or it's more optimal. And in fact, it could be hindering some of your results. So trust the process, scale back a bit. Do you have maps? I do. Yeah, I have almost all of them. I even out of morbid curiosity got maps PED, which is, I'll never do, I'll never do that. God damn. Yeah.  We're moving that from your library. Are you in the front end? I don't have Facebook. Okay. All right.  My, when I'm standing, just my normal stance, my right foot is about five to eight degrees further out than my left. Should I be squatting what my natural stance is or should I be making my feet? No. No. Not unless you have a longer leg. Do you have, do you have, has anybody ever identified- No, it's just, I don't know if it's in my ankle or my knee or my hip but my right foot is, it just, it's just, when I lift the bar up and I take a step back, I can see in the mirror, my right foot is further out than my left. So it's a, so you're like offset. No, no, no, like this. Or is it turning out? Yeah, and it's turning right out. Or from my, or, yeah. So you can either- Tightness is you. Or, or you could either A, make the other foot match. Yes. Or you can- That's what you should do immediately right now. I would make the other foot match the turning out foot. Yeah, so for now, match it, okay? So whatever the right, and by the way, pay attention because if you already have that naturally standing still, when you squat, I bet it opens up even more. It probably turns. So yeah, it probably opens up even more. So that's normally what happens. If you have like a slight external rotation, you go down into the squat, at the bottom of the squat, you'll see your foot wanting to slide out even more. Find where it's most comfortable at the bottom of your squat and match that on the left side for now. Yeah, thank you very much. Stability issues. Stability stuff and everything going on later on. But that'll at least solve it for right now. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in, brother. All right, Dan. You got it. The whole foot turning out, things weird, because you know when Adam's mad, how he turns his foot out and puts his hands on his hips? That's funny, man. You guys, boy, that's tough.  Bro. You have some night shifts. I have kids. The data on- Oh my God. The data on night shift. I'm gonna scare everybody right now that does this. It's a toxic. It's a major cancer risk, heart disease risk, mortality risk, like- I always feel bad. Like I'm giving bad news, you know, like a death sentence. It just sucks, man.  It's the stress that it causes on the body. So that being said, when you are running the rest of your life, it should be a- Your primary focus should be reducing stress. So that's what it is. It's just a low level, constant stress that your body is always in because it's never getting optimal sleep.  So that's why- You're gonna get your natural rhythm. That's why his training has gotta be the other direction. He can't be- Bro, he needs all the intervention as possible. Back when I had my studio, and we would do these hormone tests, these what are called Dutch tests, where they test your hormones all the way along, on ER. That's different than Dutch oven. Not a Dutch oven. We're gonna do a Dutch oven real quick. Here's Justin. No, we would do a Dutch test, and we would test ER doctors and nurses. You should have seen the hormone profiles. Oh, wow. It was insane. They were running off cortisol. It was crazy. My wife did graveyards, yeah. It was so bad, because you can never get good sleep, even during the day. So yeah, I definitely feel for these people. Our next caller is Dennis from Germany. Dennis, what's going on? I'll help you up, man. Hey, hey guys. Thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to ask the questions. So I very much like your podcast and have been listening for the last six months or so. And I recently bought an RGB bundle. I used to be doing a push-pull split four times a week. And now I have a little bit of a hard time convincing myself that there is enough volume, for example, just two back-pocus pull-ups in phase one. So in current plan, I do a minimum of 10 sets per muscle group per week, like vertical push horizontal, push bench presses and so on. And my background is I'm 40 years old. I'm a software developer and manager. Took my health seriously in the last four or five years when I dropped from 120 kilogram to unhealthy 65 and now certainly around 95 kilogram. And perhaps you can help my ratio to better understand the anabolic and performance and build trust in the program. So I guess it's a little bit of a paralysis by analysis on my side. Yeah, you know, there's two things to consider whenever you're looking at a program that lowers the volume or appears to be at a lower level than what you were doing before. And that's number one, most people do too much anyway. Number, actually there's three things. Number two, the amount of volume that is required to maintain what you've built is far lower than what was required to get what you've built. And that's good because if it is lower volume to build at the very least, you're not gonna lose anything. Okay, so that maybe will make you feel a little comfortable. And then the third thing is the only way to know is to do it and see if you're getting stronger. If by week three or four, you don't see strength gains, okay, well then try increasing the volume, see what happens. But typically what happens, typically what happens, especially in phase one is after week two, week three, people are stronger. And then you know for sure, this is working. And what you don't wanna do at that point is add more and think, well, if I do more, maybe I'll get even stronger. That's typically the wrong answer. So I'd say just try it. Yeah, Dennis, this you're gonna see in RGBB is the original three programs that we created. And we created them with the intent of following them in order. And the volume increase is built into the programs. So anabolic would be considered the lowest volume of the three and then performance it increases and then an aesthetic it really increases. So by the time you get through all programs and so we are progressively overloading through sets and reps and total volume over the course of all three programs. But what you're gonna find is a lot of times like Sal was saying, there's clients that think that this is not enough and then they find they're getting more results by scaling back. And then what we've done in those programs is we've appropriately scaled you up, I think, the right way and more people get results by just following it to T. Now that being said, we always tell people that, listen, everyone is an individual, there's certain people that can handle more volume or respond better with higher volume. But the one thing we always ask clients is like, just trust the process one time for us, go all the way through and then we can come back and modify and then I'm a big fan of, hey, run it through the three programs. Then when you come back around the second time, Dennis, add some things and then see if you get better results or worse. And what happens more often than not is people think that because they can handle more that that is a sign that that's better for them and that's not necessarily true. Just because your body can handle it doesn't mean it's what's optimal for the most amount of results. Also, if you look at it more as like a different animal completely in terms of like your mindset going in towards like that specific phase, like so for me, like I wanna like crank the intensity and the focus when I'm lifting, specifically knowing that I have less volume so that way I maximize my benefit of that exclusively. And so if you have that shift mentally, it's gonna play a lot better in terms of your results as well. Very good. Yeah, and you know, look, there was, let me think, I think it was, I wanna say maybe 12 years ago, they did this survey of top strength and conditioning coaches. And I mean, some of the biggest names you can think of and he asked all of them and they said, what is the best split for most people for results? And they said, 85% of people will get the best results on a full body split, full body, three days a week workout is gonna give most people the best results. When I switched to MAPS anabolic, this was already after having trained for well over a decade or more on my own, I switched to MAPS anabolic, I stopped training to failure so often, the volume went down and I was in disbelief over the progress I was getting. Now, this doesn't mean it's gonna be for everybody, but I would, I could confidently say nine out of 10 people will get better results, they'll be trained this way. And then there's one out of 10 people that get better results with the extreme workouts. But you typically know if you're one of those people, you're probably the super high level athlete, you're always the strongest guy in the room, you never needed a workout to be the biggest person. And that's super rare. A lot of people think that they're that person, like, oh, I'm that one out of 10. No, you're probably not. You're probably the nine out of 10 that'll get better. But the only way you'll know is by trying it. And you'll know pretty quick, within three to four weeks, you'll have your answer.  I will guarantee that. It's a matter of what, and Justin brought up a really good point. Like this is when you take somebody who is, and I can relate to this, right? I also was very, I trained very high volume, very body builder-esque. I love push-pull legs type of split. Switching to a full body was a total different mind shift. And it's like, oh, normally I'm used to getting, you know, I got at least eight to 10 sets. I get to work on that same body part where now I only get three or four and I'm done with that body part. So there was, there's two things that I had to, one, I had to let go of, I was always chasing this kind of pump feel, you know? Cause like that was like the results. It's like that's not giving me the results. And then the other thing was learning to maximize those three sets. Is like going into it like, listen, I'm gonna pry and warm up and I've only got three sets at this and really getting in after and getting after it for those three sets and then moving on. And once you make that shift, you commit to it, trust the process.   And don't skip the trigger sessions. If you're like, I need volume, the trigger sessions add a little bit of that volume. Don't skip those. It's three times a day on the off days. Okay, did you get that? Okay, yeah. Excellent. All right, Dennis. And you have the RGB already. Why don't we put them in the forum? Yes, go ahead. Let's put you in the forum so we could track your progress. Yeah, thank you. That's much appreciated. I want to hear from you after you get through Anabolic. I'm really... Give us an update. Yeah, yeah. Okay, we'll do so. You got it, man. All right, Dennis. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much for coming in my question and have a good time. No problem. Bye. Thank you. Okay, so you know, okay. So this is what's cool is that we've now been selling Maps Anabolic and other programs for eight out of the nine years we've been on air, roughly. Hundreds of thousands of programs. So we now have a data set of a large survey size of people who followed our programs. The program that has repeated the most and the program that continues to get the best reviews in terms of consistency, results, that's the one I always go back to. By the way, not making it the best program, just making it the one that's most appropriate for most people most of the time is Maps Anabolic. And that's the one that people are always like, it's not enough volume. You know what's even funnier? Is that that's 100% correct. And there's one that's slowly creeping up and starting to get close to rivaling that. And we haven't had it for that long. Maps 15. Maps 15. The lowest volume. The iron. I know, it's hilarious. We're just scaling people down. Yeah. And because it works. Well, 100% works. Sal said something that I wanted to correct because I don't think it's true. I don't think most people over train.  Most people aren't doing enough. Well, what I mean is most people that work out a lot.  The whole world wouldn't be obese. Sure, sure. Most people don't over train. But then you really have two ends of the spectrum of the people that do work out. Correct. And the people that do work out, then especially the ones that like to work out, do too much. Yeah. And they think it... Well, it promotes more consistency, really.  Whereas if they put more effort towards or they work harder at, they'll get more results and it doesn't work that way. Look, literally, this is the story for me. I followed every... I trained super hard, super intense, lots of volume, had my own gym, worked in gyms, had access to equipment, overdid everything, didn't realize it. Then I went back to looking at the routines of the bodybuilders of the bronze era. Everybody did full bodies before steroids even invented. Read a book called Dinosaur Training. He advocated for the same thing. And I took a leap of faith and I said, I'm going to give this a shot. And I remember the first workout, I was like, okay, this will be a week off is what's going to be because there's no way. I did the second workout. Not that took the day off the next day, did it again. Huh, am I stronger already? By the third workout that week, I was stronger. And then I was like, something weird is happening here. And that was the birth of the whole program. Look, if you love the show, do this. Go to mindpumpfree.com. Check out the free guides we just added. Free fitness guides, we're going to help you out. You can also find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.