Hello everybody. I hope you are doing well. Thanks for joining me on this. It's really lovely to see you all. Some of you I know as students, some of you I know as parents and when your kids were here we came to lots of concerts and when your kids graduated I didn't see you anymore and I missed you but it's awesome to see you in this setting. I hope you are doing well and staying healthy. We are going to get started with our conversation. As I mentioned earlier there's that form in Google and I would say about 50 of you kind of took that little quiz and I'm going to share the results and we can start our conversation from there. So bear with me as you hopefully, can somebody, yes you can see the form that I'm referring to? Awesome. I just wanted to make sure that that is happening.  Okay so one month was Beethoven born in overwhelming majority when you said December and that is correct. Beethoven was born I think why is it that we think? So here's the thing, Beethoven was baptized on December 17th and back in those days because there was such a high infant mortality rate, the kids were usually baptized a day or two days right after they were born. Hence we think it's December 16th but December 15th is also accepted as Beethoven's birthday as well and obviously back then people, the church records were probably more accurate than governmental records since the church kind of served as government entity in some ways. So Beethoven was most likely born on December 16th. Now if he was born on December 16th he also shares a birthday with a very prominent literary figure. Jane Austin was also born on December 16th. Jane Austin was born five years after Beethoven and died 10 years before Beethoven which is a bit of a shame so she lived a rather short life. So that brings us to our next question. By 2021 how old would Beethoven be? So here's the thing, since his birthday was in December if we're counting it right now it's still his 250th birthday but by December 16th or 17 then it would definitely be his 251st birthday. All right so which city was Beethoven born in? Now the overwhelming answer is Bonn. 30% think it's Leipzig, smaller percentage think it's Berlin and then 16% think it's Vienna. Now I can totally understand why people think it might be Vienna because it is understood as the musical capital of the classical music world back in those days and Berlin is now the capital of what we know is Germany so completely understandable that people think it's that. Leipzig is all affiliated with a music as a musical city thanks to Bach who spent the latter half of his life as a teacher at the St. Thomas School there and also Mendelssohn as well so who was also affiliated with the city but Beethoven was actually born in Bonn. Bonn is probably not as well known nowadays as it was back in those days. Back in those days it was kind of considered a city a thorough fair. A lot of people travel there and the city was very much like any other city at that time. The center of town life was around the city square and the city church or the cathedral. Beethoven's grandfather shared the same name Leipzig van Beethoven and he was a composer. The grandfather was a composer so you could say that music ran in his family and in some ways you know that's similar to a lot of other composers of the time. Bach's family was musical when Bach was young he was sent as an apprentice to you know some of the extended families. The way he learned music was by copying a lot of the music that he kind of stole from his cousin's covers and that's actually also how he lost his sight later in life because he spent a lot of time in not very great light copying little notes. He also had four sons which he promptly put to work as soon as they could hold a pen in their hands because they were copying all parts for him. So Beethoven grew up you could say he had music in his blood. His grandfather was very well respected in Bonn. His father was also a musician. His father was a tenor in the cathedral choir though his father nearly as well respected partly because he wasn't as good of a musician but the other part was also because his father was a drunk and abusive so not a good guy to be dealing with. As many of you know Beethoven went deaf later in his life and some have attributed that deafness to the fact that his father knocked him around a lot when he was young. Beethoven was the eldest of three sons and a little girl that was later died before all the other brothers and when Beethoven was young he definitely showed musical promise so his dad wanted to make him like the second Mozart. At that time Mozart was touring Europe you know Mozart died in 1791 and Beethoven was born in 1770 so as Beethoven was growing up he surely would have heard about Mozart. His father would have heard about Mozart and you know Mozart was going around with his dad and his sister performing for all the big royal houses in Europe and in the process gaining wealth and fame and his dad actually wanted Beethoven to do the same and made Beethoven lie about his age which also explains why Beethoven later in life was actually kind of confused about his own age. His father made him tell other people that he was younger than he actually was like told people he was six when he was actually eight trying to make him look more impressive but Beethoven was not having it. Beethoven was pretty stubborn and from a very young age and had a temper from a very young age he would rather take the abuse from his dad than to play on command by his dad so yes you can I think if I'm sure you know some of his music so you can probably hear that in some of his music. All right so which one was a portrait of Beethoven and let me go back to the pictures so this number one is Beethoven. Number two is actually a picture of Rossini for those of you that opera fans I am sure you have heard Rossini for those of you that are not opera fans I'm sure you would have heard some of this music if you know the yeah that's by Rossini. It's from his William Tell opera and that's from the Overture to the opera. Number three is a picture of young Felix Mendelssohn. Mendelssohn was also a bit of a prodigy himself except he had a very different dad. Mendelssohn came from a fairly wealthy family actually a pretty wealthy family so when he was composing you know like when he was 13 and he was writing his octets his dad was like oh you're writing this okay I'll hire a orchestra to play your music not exactly the kind of condition that Beethoven had it so somebody who definitely grew up slightly differently. Picture number four is probably the least familiar to you all and probably to most people this is Hummel. Hummel is probably nowadays most known for a trumpet sonata sorry trumpet concerto that he wrote even though in his day he's a contemporary of Beethoven and he was more known as a pianist back in those days more than anything else but his lasting legacy is that trumpet concerto. Okay going back to our responses most of you got that it was picture number one some of you pick Hummel and some of you pick Mendelssohn okay so was Haydn a teacher of Beethoven it's a little complicated so the official answer is yes the unofficial answer though is it's complicated so when Beethoven showed a lot of promise the rich people in a lecture on who was kind of the prince of the town you know said okay we're going to get something together we're going to send this very talented young man to Vienna so he could study with Haydn and said that you know the electors to him from the hands of Haydn you shall receive the spirit of Mozart so they have hopes for Beethoven so the first time Beethoven left Bond to go to Vienna he was supposed to go and study with Haydn except as soon as he got to Vienna his dad his mother and his little sister passed away very suddenly so then he went back and the elector was not happy because you know he didn't have anything to show for except for death that the elector had to pay but then when Beethoven went back again later he did quote unquote study with Haydn by that I meant he did go and have composition lessons with Haydn the problem was Haydn by this time was fairly well known very prominent definitely consider a great composer in his own time he kind of considered himself Papa Haydn you know kind of this elder statesman who is about to help these young composers and he was from a different era a different tradition his idea of composition at the root of it the philosophical root of it was different than what Beethoven wanted to achieve so he wanted Beethoven to write these things and Beethoven didn't want to write them so the two of them kind of they butted heads a great deal shall we say so while you know this was happening Beethoven also lied to Haydn which is not a good thing to do to anybody at least of all your teacher because he gave Haydn these compositions which he claimed that he wrote while he was studying Haydn so Haydn then sent it back to Bond to the people who made Beethoven all of this money to go study in Vienna to be like oh look at what he's been doing and of course the people in Bond recognized these work as in oh he wrote these when he was here so Beethoven was caught in the live Haydn was not happy with him to Haydn's credit though Haydn did not blow his cover shall we say Haydn still gave him all of his access to like the Vienna salons these were you know living rooms of people who were wealthy people who were hosting concerts he connected Beethoven to a lot of the prominent musicians and to the prominent patrons in Vienna to help Beethoven get started in his career so to Haydn's credit he didn't hold it against him um Beethoven was perhaps not nearly as gracious when Beethoven was publishing some of his first works Haydn wanted him to include the lying student of Joseph Haydn and Beethoven was like no I'm not doing that so relationship wise I mean I think you see that streak of stubbornness continue as Beethoven grow into his young adulthood that hasn't changed but like I said Haydn was actually very gracious and didn't quite hold that against them thankfully so what instrument did Beethoven play overwhelmingly you all picked the piano which I totally understand Beethoven wrote 32 piano notas which pianists of today consider the New Testament uh we consider the 48 well-tempered players by Bach to be Old Testament and Beethoven's Sonata to be the New Testament. Beethoven also wrote ten not for piano and violin now these are not works that work for the viola uh for the violin but a company won the true chamber music by the name of Sonata for piano and violin they're meant to be equal partners in these works Beethoven himself wrote the viola so the notes are actually and whenever people whenever notes are played for music actually that play the viola part of the house so just a bit of a question is he can play all or he can play the piano he played the violin he played the viola and he played the horn few horn back in when you bond because obviously when your parent is a musician you probably have musician friends who showed up to the house and if you are a curious young person who wanted to learn it wasn't hard to get somebody to teach you and back in those days the horn as an instrument was what we call not velled so nowadays when you see a horn player play their left hand would move and there would be three actually technically the problem there would be four keys there that they could move so they could get different pitches back in the days of Haydn and Beethoven and actually almost all the way up to drums as well horn players would have to carry this box of tubing there were different lengths because in order to play different keys you would have to stick in different lengths of tubing to get the different notes you want so if you are looking at scores by Mozart or by Beethoven the horn part would be horn in G or horn in D and what happens the horn players see that then they pull out their D tubing they stick in the horn and they would play in that key so this is before they have bells but yes so Beethoven actually knows how to play all four so in his middle life overwhelming and starting in his mid 30s this would be when he had gotten to Vienna got to Vienna in his late 20s early 30s he was starting to gain a reputation for himself as a pianist back in those days battle of the pianist was a big thing you know you would go to somebody's house and you would show each other off in the salons and Beethoven was a very good pianist he showed a lot of prowess and a lot of people were very impressed by what he was able to do he was also gaining reputation for himself as a composer he was publishing his first opus you know opus number two he just finishes symphony number one and two and then he started to get this ringing in his ear and it's similar to what people probably nowadays call tintinitis where you hear this ring in your ears the problem was that nobody back then quite knew what it was and all of the doctors who treated him prescribed things like oh put almond oil down your ear or go take a bath in the Daniel and obviously medical technology back in those days were not nearly what they are today and Beethoven's condition it did not improve it got progressively worse and i'm actually reading the book right now it's called hearing Beethoven in which they explore exactly what it was that he might have been dealing with the problem was that you know you're a young person who is you can say at the end of the line of your curve and are losing the one sense that one can say is perhaps the most important to you it's like somebody who is starting to become a prominent painter and they're losing their sight or they're starting to become colorblind so for Beethoven this was incredibly frightening incredibly discouraging and he was driven into depression and he was even suicidal we have um a last will and testament from him that he wrote around this time that he wrote in a place called Helgestof that is a syrup outside of Vienna so back in those days in Vienna if you had any money you would leave the city in the summer because the city stank in the summer there was no refrigeration and you can imagine all the lovely rotting whatever plus the body odors so if you had any money people left the city in the summer and Helgestof was a place that Beethoven went to this summer to compose to take walks in the country and while he was there he wrote this last will and testament to his two younger others basically explaining you know I think it was almost like a suicide note he didn't quite mail it though and it wasn't found until after his death and in the letter he talks about having to hide the fact that he was going deaf he said you know I walked down the street and people would think that I crank I don't say hello back when they say hello and he talks about how do I explain to the word you know I am a musician and I can't hear you how can I say to them you know speak louder and he was in the middle of the letter or the testament he it sounded like he was ready to commit suicide you know he was somebody who believed in his own destiny he believed that he was put on earth to write music so I think we can probably all relate to how this might be devastating I think losing one's hearing or losing any sense that a person half will be devastating to anyone at any age but it's even more so when you feel like this is the one sense you need in order to do the work that you feel like you're destined to do now in the middle of the letter it kind of turned around and he basically said here's the thing though I don't I'm not done yet he's saying I have a lot to say I have more to do and I'm not done yet so I'm going to go and pretty much people started to know that he was going deaf because he started in the tools to help himself Mazzell is a guy who nowadays is known for he people say he invented the metronome he's more like somebody who perfected the metronome but he also made what they called the ear trumpet for Beethoven so it was a tube that looked like a backwards you know there was old gramophones with the bell and not nearly as large but it was something like that in which Beethoven was sticking to one ear and people would try to speak into that so maybe he could hear them so ear trumpet is something you can find at the Beethoven museum in Bond and conversation books it got to the point where Beethoven could only converse with people if the other people wrote down they wanted to say to him I mean he could speak to them but they couldn't speak to him and have themselves be understood so we have stacks and stacks of these conversation books that Beethoven had with other people you also carry or he also had a slate one of those chalk slates so you could write something really quick erase it you know and write something again so these were the ways that you know he did to his new environment there's actually a really cool documentary about Beethoven's hearing machine what happened later was he actually had um Robert was a really London piano company based on Beethoven and then he built this home shape over it basically trying to get as much as as much sound as he could out of the instrument is um which is kind of fascinating because we try to let that light and make recordings of what I could possibly have sounded like so if you're interested in anything I say go check that it's fun to know let's plan on it okay um so did away from politics maybe what if you say false and correct so obviously looks like falling off right here let's see she'll hopefully come back if she just timed out were you guys getting some scratchiness with her audio yes okay so I was hearing that and wondering what we can do to help that I'll see if she can take out her earbuds I didn't know for just on my end we'll see oh you know I think it's my internet I keep getting the system my internet is unstable so if there's anything you need me to repeat let me know uh I'm assuming I am not sharing my screen anymore no and sometimes Ruth if you shut your video off it sometimes improves the audio as well oh I can do that um Zach please do speak up if you're losing me okay we'll do okay screen looks great okay okay so did we get the politics question so Beethoven perfect okay so did Beethoven stay away from politics uh not not quite so here's a thing about Beethoven um he did not march down the street like everybody like you know what you may think of it is involvement in politics he did not write pamphlets like Wagner did what Beethoven did was um he showed it in personal ways shall we say so there is an anecdote that's recounted by Goethe the famous German literary figure um him and Beethoven were in one of the gardens on a day on a very fine day in Vienna and back in those days you know gardens were where you went to be seen if you were a wealthy person you would take drives in the park if you were a wealthy person you might show off your new clothes at the park and this is also where people of all classes might have gathered you would have the aristocrats and you would also have people who may not quite be the aristocrats but the growing middle class so Goethe and Beethoven were one day walking in this garden and you know Goethe sees a group of aristocrats walking their way um and there were people usually that you would quote unquote defer to so this was people that you know you might move aside for you make a path for them you show your deference and Goethe said while he was you know come up from a bow to these people Beethoven had charged like a bull through the crowd you know straight through this group of aristocrats and I think you can gather what Beethoven thinks of the class system based on this one anecdote now did that mean that he didn't take money from them oh no he was quite happy to take money from them and we'll get to that in a little bit but here's the thing when Napoleon came on the scene you know 1770 is when Beethoven was born 1776 is when you have the american revolution then 13 years later you have the french revolution that went on and off for about 10 years and out of that you get some guy named Napoleon who is a corsican nowadays part of Italy but back in the back then part of France who is basically going through France talking about and conquering different parts of Europe talking about liberty fraternity you know and and freedom and so Beethoven was a fan you like the ideas that Napoleon was espousing so at first he actually dedicated his third symphony to Napoleon now when Napoleon declared himself an emperor Beethoven was pissed he was very very mad and he actually scratched out the dedication on the score and instead wrote to the memory of a hero so it's dedicated to the memory of a hero instead so Beethoven was definitely not somebody who shied away from letting people know about his personal opinions and politics even though he didn't quote unquote actively take part shall we say so was Beethoven revered in his lifetime and the short answer is yes Beethoven did not die a pauper he actually at the end of his life accumulated a substantial amount of wealth that he was able to give and pass on to his brothers and nephews and he himself you know at one point thought of moving away from Vienna because the cost of living at Vienna became too high and all of these aristocrats got together and basically said we can't let Beethoven leave Vienna because what would Vienna be without Beethoven how can we call ourselves the city of music so they decided to give Beethoven a deal they would give him an annuity a certain set of money every year where it would cover his living expenses and all Beethoven had to do was stay in Vienna and Beethoven took the deal and the steel fluctuated a little bit there were times when we didn't get paid the full amount or there were huge inflations at certain other times but when you think about it that is a fantastic deal for any artist I mean nowadays there are very few artists that have this kind of deal artists tend to compliment their artistic endeavors or teaching and or performing and nowadays you know you might have the McArthur grant or the Guggenheim that might give you a certain set of money for a year to say go work on your creative endeavors so you don't have to worry about living expenses but this was incredibly rare and I think it shows to a certain degree how well known Beethoven was in his lifetime and also how much he was a reviewer as a composer during his time here's the thing though Beethoven then went through another bout of depression later in his life and it has to do with his brother's death one of his younger brother passed away and he was in a custody battle with his sister-in-law for his nephew and this kind of set him into a whole depression and it was I don't think he was probably a good person to be raising a child but in some ways because he didn't have one of his own I think he wanted to raise this nephew to you know kind of pass on his legacy things were so bad that the nephew attempted suicide actually so Beethoven was went into another bout of depression and he stopped caring about himself he was not taking care of himself he was drinking a bottle of wine with every meal and he was not taking care of himself in terms of personal hygiene at one point he even slept on the street and got woken up by a policeman who thought he was homeless until they then realized that it was actually Beethoven so I think from this you can see that Beethoven was incredibly human he wasn't but it was pristine all the time he let his personal feelings be known and he has some pretty public you know we can say meltdowns I think these days if we want to call it that so was Beethoven a good businessman yes he was he actually hired his two younger brothers to be his secretaries and he was one of the first composers to start negotiating different contracts for his published works in different countries to make sure that he was getting the most out of his contracts and as I mentioned he had no problem taking money from the aristocrats if you look at his pieces in the title page of his pieces they will often be dedications and who are they dedicated to dedicated to they were not dedicated to you know family members they were usually dedicated to a kind to a prince to a archduke or to a prince and why because these people gave him money um sometimes it wasn't quite nearly as quick pro quo as I give you this money and you must give me the dedication sometimes it was but most of the time it's because Beethoven realized that these people have helped him substantially in giving him the musical opportunities he needs to build his reputation let me give you an example um back in these days there was no such thing as a professional orchestra you know these societies and these professional orchestras did not come in tell the earliest I want to say was 1850 and if you are a composer and you have a new piece that and you want to premiere to the public you would have to hire players to come rehearse and perform and it's expensive when you think about how many people are in an orchestra so what happened was that he would hire people who were sometimes playing in bars playing in coffee shops and these people will come together for a day long rehearsal and then they will perform in the evening I mean that's insanely long day and also these weren't the best players either and that actually contributed to a lot of why Beethoven did not receive good reviews of a lot of his music during his own lifetime especially at the premieres because oftentimes they were poorly played I mean these people rehearse all day then they will perform at night that's barely enough for a person to do anything and it was hard to play you know and it was a show me there is actually one of the piano of course than aria but that was probably like a three hour concert okay and probably more and these people had just that day to rehearse and he was you know in his journal he was talking about Prince Prince one of the princes that he knew I want to say it's Nishtowsky even though I'm not completely sure don't quote me on that have brought over food for the musicians you know and he could never have funded these ventures without the help of these patrons and these patrons sometimes you know in addition to giving him food giving him money also gave him a place to stay when he was in Vienna there was a period of time where he was staying with one of these aristocrats and one of these aristocrats asked him you know when he had visitors ask if Beethoven will play for his visitors Beethoven got super upset and he left in a huff because he's like I am not your servant and I think from that you could see Beethoven's great objection to the class system at the time he was not a fan of that and he does not believe that an artist should be somebody who submits themselves to working for a church or working for like the aristocrats he believed that I am just as good as you are and you don't get to boss me around so I think in all of that it paints hopefully a better picture of who Beethoven was definitely Plex definitely somebody who had his own ideals and he stuck to them but only when it was being important in some ways and he was also a person who went through a great struggle of his own internally and also he went through a struggle during his time when you think about Europe at that time you had millennia of kings you know the idea that you were ruling by divine right and all of a sudden that was changing now people are thinking that maybe everybody's equal maybe not quite everybody you know not not because of who you were born to that you are better than somebody else so definitely somebody who was going through a turmoil time outside but also inside as well ah so now we get to aha did Beethoven like coffee the short answer yes yes it was known that Beethoven would count up 60 60 beans every day grind them up himself then make himself a cup of coffee there are coffee shops nowadays that have figured out that that's about the ratio of how you might make an espresso shop so if you're ever interested in trying the Beethoven group you just need to count up 60 beans grind them yourself and see what that might taste like it's probably going to be a very strong cup of coffee and lastly Beethoven never married that is true he never married and he was very unlucky in love shall we say he was always looking for love but he was very unlucky in love most of the time he set his sights on women that were beyond reach in terms of his social standing he was reaching for people that he could never have and there is a movie that's actually pretty well done with gary omen playing Beethoven and it's called immortal beloved and it's based off of a letter that Beethoven wrote speaking about this person as the immortal beloved and how he was to be with this person and the movie kind of recounts Beethoven's life through the search who this is the book and the movie comes to different conclusions about who that is but it makes for this story and i will say for the other parts they actually in my opinion capture who Beethoven was as a person relatively well so i encourage you to check that movie if you want some good entertainment it's called immortal beloved and the music in it is recorded by the london symphony orchestra with sir george v and i think it's lovely so i encourage you all to check that out i think um i am good i think i come to a good stopping play in the lecture and i invite questions if you have any and i'm gonna stop sharing my finger perfect thank you ruth yeah if you have any questions put them in the chat or feel free you can unmute yourselves now if you have some questions about Beethoven i personally learned a lot um i'm not as well versed with composers and great that this is our time so that was great to hear a little bit about him so if you have any questions please unmute yourself you can do so now if it was resentful the class of how society saw his family ah okay so when you think about back in these days um as a musician before Mozart before Beethoven the best that you can hope for is to find a steady job either as the cappell meister for you know a some aristocrat which is what heiden did heiden was the cappell meister for princess ester hazy in nowadays kind of hungry checklist locket area or what Mozart's dad did and Mozart's dad worked for the church i think was working for archbishop in solzburg back then that was the most stable job that you could possibly have bach was working for leipzig um the saint thomas church and school there so Mozart wanted to break out on his own most of his dad had actually lined up a great job for him he's like no i want to go to vienna i want to be a freelance musician i want to put together own concerts and Beethoven kind of was following in that fista you had the growth of the middle class which means more people were able to afford to pay for a ticket to go to a concert and i think people of Beethoven's time knew about his family background they knew that he came from a musical family they respected him as an artist he was kind of that archetype of your romantic artist somebody who isn't afraid to you know let people know what they think or and people and somebody who was a romantic in terms of expressing his views in a very um direct way so as you know the princess and the aristocrats i think respected him this is not that all of them did there were definitely people in there who thought he was you know too good for himself or he thought too well of himself so there were definitely people who were not a fan of him and part of it is because he wasn't shy about letting people know his opinions either so he didn't like a politician people knew about it other questions i wanted to know this is jenny leppard thank you so much for this wonderful presentation i wanted to know if you know anything more about all the media hype there was a few years ago about Beethoven died of lead poisoning from the river or something like that did you read about that at the time i don't think i read that although hearing there are so many about why he died or how he died or why he went deaf um back in those days obviously the cemetery conditions in europe was not good and this actually ties into the coffee thing so before coffee was kind of a thing in europe most people in europe actually drank beer because it wasn't safe to drink water without boiling it and most people weren't boiling their water or didn't know that they were supposed to boil their water and when drinking to europe and the new world because coffee is an equatorial up um people all of a sudden were going wow we get a lot more done drinking coffee rather than drinking beer and you know Beethoven wasn't the only composer that loved coffee uh bach also loved coffee bach actually was a whole coffee cantata which is between a daughter and a dad and the daughter was just like just give me coffee i don't care you marry me off to a dense version of that story um Beethoven most likely died from some sort of um most likely this is once again a theory from something that was digestive like internal bad digestion and based by the last day of his stomach was also to like he had bloated the fluids i'm not sure exactly what was in the coffee but it would not suffice me if at the time was huge lepo all around europe at that time hello i've heard another theory i'm Matthew from the luth a very retired physician that uh because there was deafness he got depressed and so he drank too much so he got cirrhosis of the liver and ascites that is huge collection of fluid and at abdomen and he attempted to drain it and of course in those days he got infected and that is what wiped him out another thing about him that uh male clinic geneticist named Jaime Gordon uh expounded on uh was that he had a tertiary that is third degree syphilis and that is in an unusual way presented with his hearing loss i don't know how accepted that is or documented but uh that's propounded by a pretty authoritative non-musician anyone who is easy to imagine getting syphilis in those days which isn't very nice but you gotta be realistic i heard about the liver and the cirrhosis of the liver i actually believe that was part of his autopsy um as the syphilis one i am not sure i have also heard that rumor as well though and he would now have been the first um romantic composer to be associated with that disease Schuber died of it and it's most likely that Schumann went crazy because of it so unsurprising i would not be surprised if he did have syphilis other questions our idea how radical was his music in those days uh that's what the impression i had is just used to um the Bach and Haydn and Mozart and then Beethoven came along with this dramatic music was it pretty shocking yes so let me give you a quick example of what made his music so shocking so up to now up to when Beethoven wrote his first and second symphony people tended to start a symphony with this slow action then would be a little bit more lively called the Allegro and Beethoven decided to start his third symphony with these two quick booms i mean he just jumped right into the Allegro and that was considered unprecedented and people were just like what is he doing you know while we get our slow introduction anymore so this was definitely something that the audience considered shocking at the time and also what Beethoven did was he put the emphasis of the symphony he shifted he slowly shifted to the last movement rather than the first movement first movement used to be where kind of the meat and potato was of the symphony the second movement is usually something slow something lovely something graceful third movement is usually a minuet that was based on a french dance and the fourth movement was just supposed to be like dessert you know it's supposed to be something light and frothy that you can then go home kind of maybe singing the tune with but what Beethoven did was he slowly shifted kind of a lot of the important things into the fourth movement and the fourth movement became longer and longer and longer and much more substantial so these are just two of the things that kind of shock the audience at the time that's great i believe art did you have a question art yes can you hear me yeah we can hear you oh good uh i'm wondering i know at least i believe Mozart wrote the ninth symphony when he was totally deaf did he write any other symphonies or music when he was totally deaf so here's the where the definition gets a little tricky with idea of totally deaf because Beethoven could still feel vibrations and even when he was writing those last pieces he was still doing them at these piano with that hearing machine he would build this huge comb that would go over you know where the piano kind of where the lid is nowadays in a grand piano so i don't think he was completely deaf ever i think he could still kind of hear things but he could never hear in the spectrum that probably we can hear to does that make sense at all yes okay thank you no problem and we've got time for a couple more questions i saw lindsay had a question if you have any book or documentary recommendation yes um here is one about Beethoven nine and i believe it's called let me do a quick search but i think it's something called following in the steps of Beethoven nine uh following the ninth the step the first step of Beethoven's final symphony it's a documentary and it's about how oh to joy especially has made an impact worldwide i mean this was what was hanging in tanman square when those students were protesting in tanman square in 1989 this is what was playing you know at the berlin wall when it came down every year now in japan around christmas time around the end of the year you would have thousands of singers that learned that oh to joy and hire an orchestra just so they can sing oh to joy so this is talking about kind of the power of that ninth symphony the oh to joy is the eu's anthem so it's got a lot of power so i definitely recommend that one yes thank you jack for putting that yep the other one if you're curious about finding out more about the hearing machine i think it's just called if you put in Beethoven's hearing machine it's free on bimio it's a video that's free right there the movie i would definitely recommend immortal beloved because i think that they actually do a good job of trying to tell his story and you know it's by a good director with very good actors there was a movie i think called copying Beethoven with ed harris i'm not so crazy about that one but that's a personal opinion let me think books wise there's a really famous biography written by manar Solomon and it's about Beethoven so that is also something that's worth checking out and that book definitely i think is where the movie got some of their ideas in terms of thinking about the immortal beloved was the last things you wrote the string quartets i'm sorry what was the question about the string quartet was with the last things that he composed the string quartets i believe so yes and those string quartets are amazing and i would encourage everyone to go check them out they will feel a little strange i can't remember whether the misa salamis was the last thing he wrote or not but definitely worth checking out the misa salamis can feel very strange at times and you're like wait this is a mass and wait what is he doing so you know like a lot of other composers Beethoven as he got older got more and more into studying box fugues and his music became more and involved with fugue writing as he grew older so you know one of the famous string quartet has a gross fugue in it a lot of the piano sonata towards the end also had this idea of the fugue and you hear that a little bit in the ninth symphony as well not a full blown fugue but the fugue like let's see everyone just for a time sake here we're going to give everybody off at one o'clock so if any further questions please reach out to roof via email i put it in the chat there i want to thank everybody for tuning into our virtual alumni college lecture series it's been a great lecture there worked nicely for us so you're a lot about Beethoven in the history i certainly learned a lot and if you're interested on february 22nd it is the anniversary of the miracle on ice and we have someone from our office actually bruce bergland presenting on the miracle on ice and we have a future and further events about life on mars i'm getting into the sciences a little bit we have an astronomy lecture in the works as well so lots of great stuff lots of great alumni college lecture presenters so keep tuning in for those lectures thank you ruth that was amazing like i said i learned a lot and i'm sure a lot of our alums and current students of yours will reach out with some further questions and comments so thanks everybody for tuning in thank you ruth land great job have a good day everybody thanks everybody for coming


Thank you, thanks for the invitation and thank you guys for coming Let me quickly introduce myself so that you get a sense of what Where we come from and why I'm going to be saying the things I'll be saying for the next half hour Kernel analytics is a company that develops tailor-made algorithms that automate and optimize decision-making so we use data from our clients to develop Predictive models and then we deploy algorithms that help them in their daily operations basically adding more intelligence to current business processes Today I'm going to be making a case That is while all these developments individually in marketing in supply chain in pricing in Asset deployment while all these things Individually make sense and add lots of value Today I'm going to be making the case for the next step Which is that it allows coordination across departments creating some additional synergies that cannot be Obtained otherwise So right now I did a spoiler of my entire presentation. So basically this is my claim for today So artificial intelligence will allow extreme day-to-day coordination So not high-level coordination in which the two, you know, the CMO and the CEO talk to each other No, no, no, I'm going to be arguing that artificial intelligence will allow to Make tangible in daily individual operational tactical decisions So that these two things are Coherent yeah, so basically coordination between departments in a complex and changing environments in And that this will be a Significant competitive advantage that can be sustained and built over time So basically I'm going to be spending the rest of the presentation Describing at a high level this idea and then providing concrete examples in different industries and different decisions to make To make the case.  So before in the good old days Departments were operating pretty much very with you know autonomously Coordination took place at the executive committee but not so much between departments on an operational level and Companies had information silos that basically was reflecting Departmental management silos. Yeah, so each department would hire their own application to run their show And as a result all this would end up in different information systems So hence making it even more difficult to get these operational Coordination yeah, so what I'm suggesting is that in when everything that I'm describing today happens and Believe me, there's a lot of room for improvement We will be getting like highly coordinated operations between departments at a micro level at an operational daily level So the executive committee still of course makes sense to align strategies But then AI the data science or the data engineering will make it happen On a low level. Yeah, of course, there will be a unique data lake and that is something that yes, it is more and more mature in in all companies But artificial intelligence as a low-level coordinator. This is not So much or as we can see it But yes, we can see some examples that I will share today of Tied a wave that is coming and that will be seeing Unfold in the next in the next years All right So basically the examples that I came up with of course, you know different companies have different departments that are you know Leading but the cases that are they'll be presenting today cover these areas. Yeah, so marketing both above the line and below the line so marketing slash CRM operations mostly supply chain Pricing And then expansion is you know typically asset deployment Yeah, so network deployment or it could be even point of sale deployment Yeah, and then of course strategy and finance are interested in aligning all this be it from a budget perspective or be it from a you know coherence in strategy perspective. Yeah, so Okay, so let's jump into it Let me start with example number one Pardon me, which is flexible and personalized promotions. Yeah, so this will involve CRM supply chain and pricing So let's start with Individual applications and then we see how the combination of those create some extra value beyond the individual applications.  So you you know The the season ends the clearance period starts and you have certain stocks for For individual products. Yeah, so it is inevitable. We all know That there will be discounts in this period Yeah, and when you have higher stocks, typically this requires higher discounts and the other way around. Yeah, and Yes, there is one You know individual application that is only pricing which is answering a complex question Which is what is the itinerary of discounts that I should put in order to get rid of my stock with the best possible margin Yeah, but this would as such would not fall in the Talk that I'm giving today. It would be a talk on itself markdown optimization. Yeah Then CRM and loyalty programs allow us so different story now CRM and loyalty programs allow us to understand Extremely the tastes and the sensitivities of each individual customer. We don't do things by chance So we can look at what we buy what we click what we abandon in the basket and Based on this we know that you know pow likes, you know boring blue suits and somebody else likes more shiny clothes We know who is price sensitive We know who's not price sensitive basically by observing their behavior. Yeah, so we know they don't do these things by coincidence So basically we know we have and when we develop recommendation engines Basically what we're doing is we're trying to you know personalize CRM Customer touch points one-on-one and again, this is a you know an interesting project on its own That allows to get you know uplifts significant uplifts in in CRM management Having said this the idea that I would like to present today is when we mix the two. Yeah, so basically the idea is Okay, I know that I'll be doing 30% discounts two weeks from now when the clearance period starts What if I did some below the line offers to some of my clients directly saying why don't you avoid all the Hustle of going to the clearance period You know here's my 20% discount on these individual products that you care for if you go now Private sales. It's all yours. So basically I can I can You know do a first pre sales period Target it one-on-one that Helps me sell a bit better clothes that I know that in two weeks time There will be at a 30% discount and from a CRM perspective the customer says okay You know, I'm not sure whether this will be available in the clearance period I know that clearance periods is a hassle in any case So I might be inclined to accept that offer simply because of the convenience. Yeah And the uncertainty of getting the right products. So basically here what we're doing is we're doing we're mixing Personalized Interactions so personalization and pricing and we're again Defending the margin a little bit better with respect to just pure pricing In the sales period. Yeah, okay. So this is Example number one. Let me move to example number two smart shopping list and Stop food waste. So here the idea is so now we're moving to a food retailer or yeah, supermarket more in general Yeah, not only food The idea is that Extremely from simply from a CRM perspective When we have recurrent purchases and supermarkets is one of those cases that we know Clients come, you know every week or every two weeks and they buy lots of things So and lots of these things we buy Recurrently because we need to eat and clean and so on so here There's one idea which is again individual which is how do we develop a smart shopping list? So basically telling our clients you should stop thinking about doing the shopping list Let me help you with that. But of course that requires some intelligence on on the supermarket side meaning If you I bought, you know, two bottles of shampoo last week Please do not speak about shampoo until I don't know two months from now Because if you are careful enough to be looking at how often I buy these things I will How often I will buy these things you will see that I'm not gonna need any of this for the next yeah a few weeks Yeah, so Okay, so this is something that can be done and we can see what is the frequency and and this works for everything that is You know shampoos toothpaste and all the basics. Yeah, and then of course when we go to the supermarket We also have some indulgences and these are indulgences probably don't need to follow this Stable pattern. It's more like again recommender engine say okay if you like pesto sauce You might also like these other Italian sauce or whatever. Yeah, so okay, so this is for as much as for the smart shopping list Telling people to stop thinking about this and then they don't make mistakes then also Given that we can track with loyalty cards or with or online We can also predict store attendance. So when people are going to be coming to our stores And the idea is to do that the ideas that we can In fare when it would be a good time for somebody To come to our store because we have lots of interesting things for that person that day Meaning if I like strawberries and I like whatever a certain kind of shampoo And if those two items are on sale with a heavy discount that particular day Then it might be a good idea to say power Didn't you come to the store today, you know instead of tomorrow you were going to come in any case But today we have this so it creates a clear call to action for that particular person to come that particular day and again and the stop food waste thing is Dynamic pricing for Perishable goods. So the idea is that I have all these apples I know that they're gonna be off in one or two days So I need to you know decrease my price or start putting some promotion or some discount on it So this again, it's something that is interesting on its own. It's dynamic pricing to sell with the best possible margin the The the products that you have so you create yourself a reputation for avoiding food waste, but at the same time you are Yeah, so you're you're you're maximizing your margin So you're doing both things at the same time and what I'm claiming here is that these two things are interesting But you can also add an extra thing on top of it Which is mixing the two so saying when it is a good time For a certain customer to go to the store and get all these things Yeah, and the idea is that all these things can be refreshed, you know In real time once we know how sales are going and finally, of course the supply chain bit of it is you know to ensure that there's Product availability in in all the supermarkets and all the stores and all the products All right Change topics now we move to network rollout. Yeah, so if if you are running a gas distribution company or a telecom operator you will be Deploying or spending huge amounts of money deploying networks Yeah, deploying pipes or antennas or fiber optics and so on and so forth And you'll be investing a lot in this and this is key for customer acquisition because if these things are not in place Customer acquisitions is impossible. So basically you would like to know when Where with a lot of precision you should be deploying these networks hoping that? You know neighbors in those streets would sign up for the service that you're offering. So The rollout of these physical networks are is extremely costly and with long-term return So basically what we would like to know in this case is Sorry one extra thing and yes In Spain and in any, you know developed country and even developing ones We have very rich data about people volume of people type of people buildings Roads own networks Competitors networks. This one is a little bit less detailed, but everything else is extremely precise So we know exactly how many people are living where at a building level So we can get extremely granular and what we would like to do here, of course is learning from the areas that we cover and moving to or extrapolating this knowledge to other areas that are not covered with your current network But it allows you to forecast how many people are going to be signing up on year one year two year three and so On and this is the benefit. This is the this is the revenues that you can expect from Making the investment. So once this is done We can do you know the net present value of these deployments at a at a building level or at a street Level and then of course here comes the The so CRM is in charge of acquisition of customers Expansion is you know in charge of making it happen deploying the network and then the finance guys, of course This has heavy capex implications and and when we're talking about deploying Telecom networks also optics implications. So So they try to make sure that everything is aligned Yeah, so that the that they get the best return on investment on these on these on these things The the the gas distribution example is very easy to follow then if you translate it to Mobile telephony it gets more tricky, but the logic is the same. So When you do a gas distribution, you need to have a not only you need to identify what you know streets like parts of streets Are profitable you also need to link them together because the gas needs to flow through the the network. Yeah So then the algorithm the engine needs to be smart enough to know where it needs to go and And how to link all the profitable bits and in a non myopic way Yeah, so it needs to be able to make little investments to reach profitable areas when you do this same idea for a telecom operator The logic is the same. It's simply that antennas do not need to be you know Connected with pipes necessarily but but definitely you need to simulate adding these extra antenna in the network or upgrading The capacity or the technology from 3g to 4g of these antennas What is the impact on the quality of service? What is the impact on the customer experience? What is the impact on business metrics of customers living in that area and then is when you can close the circle and basically These two examples end up in some sort of like bottom-up simulator in which you can In which you can bring together on the same table the finance guys who will say how much is this going to cost from a CapEx perspective and what optics implications it might have the CRM Slash strategy guy who says well I have all these you know customers that are increasing their data consumption and I want to you know launch this new Price plans with all these data packages on it And then the expansion guys as well wait I need you know This is the dimensioning that I need for all this to happen And then they it basically allows to coordinate a coherent strategy between the three of these until they converge. Yeah All right, let's move on to another example I'm Pricing and personal so personalized pricing and bundling so now we're going to the airline industry And here One could say okay. What prices should I have for my flights? But more in particular here. I'm gonna be talking about ancillaries so ancillaries are all these services that you are offered be after the After you buy the ticket. Yeah, so the insurance the preferred seating the The Boarding and all these extra things. Yeah food sometimes so in the past These were used to be the same for every route. Yeah, so if you go from Barcelona to Madrid then you know, these are the prices But really we have a lot of information when people are making that decision we know what kind of reservation and Sometimes we also know what Exact customer is behind that reservation so we can fine-tune these prices to increase customer satisfaction and Revenues and net because these are typically services with a very low marginal costs But high value for clients. Yeah, so basically, you know adding an extra suitcase in the in the plane or you know offering Priority insurance or the priority seat boarding. It doesn't really cost me much as an airline but It it is something that people are willing to pay the question is how much and of course if you do You know targeted pricing you can you can you can increase these and basically it's an industry that is already used to Different prices. We all know that when we're sitting inside a plane We know that nobody in the plane paid the same price for that ticket and we're cool with it We're simply extending the same logic to the ancillaries so So basically the idea here is How do we define these prices? And of course, this is a long story, but it it has to do with you know estimating elasticity based on massive a be testing and And once you have this it is a system that continuously challenges current prices targeted segmented Dynamic prices and until continuously finds the more optimal ones This again is a pricing Exercise only but it has very interesting synergies with CRM and both batch and in real time so batch is okay This is the prices that I would you know otherwise give to Paul Agulio Based on his past behavior. So we know that he's you know Appreciates very much checking in the suitcase and not so much some some other thing. So the idea is okay We screw up with power will you we lost his luggage Last time he flew with us so we can use this also To give favorable conditions or even for free sometimes some of these things because it has long-term implications in terms of customer value management and this is where the CRM bit comes in and of course pricing and CRM they need to be Coordinated on this front so that we're not charging assume that I'm a business traveler assume that business travelers get High prices assume that they lost my luggage and they get a high price for something else that I get extremely upset so the logic is that they you know that they can compensate and and And yeah, and they can so that so that from a CRM perspective they take care of a you know valuable customer like myself At the same time it could be in real time like sorry, mr. Agulio We are late and we're you know the flight is not going to take off for the next four hours So this again is something that can be applied in real time and again It needs to be consistent because if I try to you know Hire something else in that in real time for whatever reason then This is something that they can play around with but it kept it can be it can be also applied to the hotel industry With the ancillary services that hotels offer to their guests beyond the room themselves. Yeah so Okay, so this is idea number four. I think so let me move to promotion optimization. So I Single idea Promotion measurement has greatly evolved in the last year. So now companies consumer good companies know much better What is the profitability of their? of their promotion so basically answer answering a very simple yet important and Tricky question which is when we did the 50% discount on the second unit? Did we make money or did we lose money and this has to do with you know? somehow Reconstructing the counterfactual of what would have happened if I didn't do the promotion and then try to see whether the sales Uplift more than compensates the loss in margin the cost of the promotions and maybe some Cross product cross time cannibalization. Yeah, so all this is good And it you know, it's more or less where the state of the art is so this helps companies to understand past Profitability and it allows them to negotiate with retailers with better information So that they they know what are the implications of their of their promotions future promotions for their profitability Again, this is a single area, which is you know trade marketing. Yeah But of course there's another department that is marketing like above the line mark marketing So these are the guys that you know make ads on TV and these you know, they invest heavily as again And it this also has an impact sometimes sometimes bigger sometimes smaller on sales So it's good to not do double accounting and that the trade marketing gets their own benefits And the marketing guys get their own benefits Yeah But then you also have below the line. So this is CRM people Getting agreements with the retailer so that they can do coupon recommendation for their clients Yeah, so this is where the below the line thing comes in so basically getting the net profitability And what is the best way to do ads on TV? trade marketing for everyone that comes to the supermarket or personalized targeted coupons to the To the customers of the supermarket how all that fits in and how is When are we being too generous and when we're being not enough generous? So what is what is the combination of all these parameters to maximize overall efficiency? And of course once you've done this there are you know upstream implications for supply chain to make sure that you have enough product in all in all the stores. Yeah And also of course to optimize the advertisement Investment. Yeah, so again here. We're mixing marketing trade marketing supply chain and CRM all in one same cocktail mixer Let me move to assortments So here the idea is Imagine The company here what they're doing is It's a flash sales company. So here the idea is that we have Products Available for a for a limited amount of time. Yeah, so Imagine that you're selling clothing. So You know relatively high-end brands with hard discount, but they are available only for five days So you need to so customers need to make a bit of an impulse decision, which is Should I buy this now that it's 50% off or not and And so basically what these companies do is like they put new campaigns Which are essentially brands lots of products within those brands and a certain discount and then based on this they Yeah, they sell basically until they run out of the stock big brands try use this online outlet So to speak to again get rid of the stock from from previous seasons So this company Has developed an engine that helps Personalize interactions with each individual customer. So basically this We know perfectly how much each customer bought What they bought what they clicked what they abandoned in the basket As you know as far back as we want so years Yeah So basically we know everything that has interested you in the past and this of course helps us making these recommendations with a lot of precision and when you check it with a control group or champion challenger so the non personalized Group and the personalized group you see an uplift a Significant uplift that can be you know between 10 and 20 percent now the question so again This is a single idea. It's pure CRM. It works nicely and it's and it's and it's fantastic. Yeah Now the idea though is so this is more answering a commercial question an assortment question from these Online outlet company and the idea is what how should I what calendar? Should I have for all the different campaigns? To maximize overall sales and of course here the idea is that we might be Losing sales for two reasons reason one is what we call it coverage So basically there is a group of people a group of users in your in your in your customer base That finds nothing of interest that particular day Yeah, so this would be a mistake that the assortment people have done Because there are certain people that like I don't know sports clothes and that particular day There's nothing for them. So this is something that we can anticipate because we know through the engine We know exactly what is it that they that each customer cares about so we could simulate You know what would happen and we can see things like like this that that some that there's coverage issues The other one is a the opposite meaning this is a bit of an impulse Market therefore if there are two products or two brands that completely overlap It could be that you indulge yourself with one purchase, but not two in a given day So following this reasoning having the I don't know Adidas and Nike Campaigns on the same day would be a bad idea because they would be cannibalizing each other sales. Yeah So these are two things that we could discuss But we don't need to discuss because we have data to test these things So the idea is to try to understand how overall sales relate to the Coverage that you have so whether each user finds at least one or a few campaigns relevant for that particular day And secondly whether there are campaigns that overlap each other and they cannibalize each other sales So this is something that we can go to the data and understand and based on this We can simulate what is the best calendar for all their campaigns and and and when they should be launched. Yeah, so here the idea is That it allows me to better plan assortment definition yeah, so So how these things should be combined and of course this has CRM implications, but also operations implications And finance because we know when these things are coming in. All right Last example availability planning Okay, so imagine that you are, you know, the COO of Uber or Cabify or global on all these transportation companies The tricky what is core business for these companies is to make sure that The supply equals demand for transportation in space and time Yeah, so basically that you have the adequate but not too much but not too little like not too few drivers available Again in space and time so in the right areas at the right times of the day if you have excessive drivers You're creating frustrating in your own fleet and If you're and if you are short of drivers, then you're creating frustration on the customer side So basically your job is to balance these two things continuously and then if you leave the Markets so to speak to work on their own these two things do not match Magically it would take too much work too much friction too much frustration Yeah, until drivers learn when they should be available or when customers know that they can rely on this You as the COO know this better and and you can and you have some Marketing levers that you can use to make these two things match all the time. What are these things so? Well, these two things are incentives really so One thing would be Pricing yeah, so from a customer perspective if you're asking for a ride when it is more difficult to get drivers Then you know or there's scarcity say, you know 2 a.m. On a Friday night, then I'll charge you more so this is what's called search pricing and it's you know beautifully done by Uber and these kind of companies and and then and That's precisely the concept say okay, and of course there is an elasticity here at play Which is how people react to changes in prices, but experience says that there is some flexibility not infinite flexibility But some flexibility and be willing to pay a bit more basically because your alternatives are equally bad Yeah, there are no taxes available So I rely on Uber even if it's you know two euros more expensive or three euros more expensive at that particular time and day Okay, but then how do I make sure that I have enough drivers? And this is what extra benefits I can provide drivers to be available when I need them and this can be Again search pricing can benefit them as well. So no I'll pay you more But I can also trade with promotion. So have some sort of a CRM Aspect to it, which is I'll give you I don't know whatever points and then I'll give you preference for the Booked rides the one people going to the airport. These are good rides. They are booked in advance So I can you know assign them directly to individual drivers that you know took the nuisance to be available on a Friday night When I needed him so then I'm gonna compensate the driver later on so again, this is a CRM to drivers Dynamic pricing all this together in making an operations Which is making sure that we have the right balance for between supply and demand So again, it can combine real-time pricing But at the same time there needs to be some but the pricing can be real-time The CRM needs to be happening a bit in advance and that's why you need to make forecasts Yeah, you need to know how many drivers you're gonna need on a Friday night so that you can make the offer to the Driver so that they can make plans and not have a dinner with their friends that particular day because they need to be available Yeah, or a few of them. So again, we're mixing in Pricing CRM and operations on in one same layer and one same engine that is, you know, pure core business for for these companies so by now, I hope that I have convinced you that that this that Extreme coordination adds a lot of value in addition to the individual value that each of these applications You know Cause in in in individual department, so I'm not saying that these individual Advanced analytics applications don't make sense. Of course they do but what I'm saying is that there is this extra Value to be realized to be made once you bring the two together And I came up with some examples of pricing Network or asset deployments marketing CRM and operations and of course all these things And if you're familiar with this kind of Initiatives, you know that there is one part that is strictly analytical, which is you know again artificial intelligence predictive models But then there is a business layer to it That is does this make sense are we creating value with this and this is the strategy finance guys that make sure that we're investing in You know CRM for drivers is more than compensated with the revenues that we make for for customers So This is it for the talk. This is all I wanted to say we have five minutes for questions if anybody has a particular question Well, thank you Thank you Congratulations Paul for the presentation. I was late from other sessions. So maybe you talk about that before to start however Many Companies who are deploying Customer or package CRM ERP and so on are talking right now about putting these models inside the CRM Inside the ERP and one of the problem of this is to manage the lifecycle of the models and the versions the control and so on I think so to get extreme Coordination maybe the best should be to put inside the CRM inside the ERP inside the The the kernel applications in the companies How What do you think about to put it inside or outside and coordinate an extra information from these systems to to make Available the models and so on Okay, typically it's a very good question and it's far from being resolved I think I think different companies are doing different things, but our opinion is You know, you need some Flexibility to be maintaining and evolving these models. So models do not you cannot forget about the models that you're running You need to keep an eye on how they are performing all the time So basically we what we suggest is okay, you have here your data lake Then you have an an environment in which analytics takes place There is a you know the analytics toolbox and analytics sandbox in the toolbox is where you have all the deployed models that are running our experience is that If you don't need real time Probably it's better that they sit in this, you know analytical toolbox We call it so that the you know, you have full flexibility to manage the algorithms And then the results are plugged in the ERP or the operational systems basically because Yeah, you don't want to slow down the the you know operations But again, it depends on the flexibility that the ERP offers in terms of having those models run inside So typically we favor being outside and then plugged in. Yeah, so typically there's an ERP and This is a bit of a analytical bypass and then it goes back in and then it's all the but but again They're you know pros and cons so I had a question about surge pricing. Yeah so it seems like a very efficient idea in terms of Managing supply and demand from a customer point of view if there's a high variation in the amount of money that you pay You could get negative emotional reactions from the customers I just wanted to know how big an issue this is and how companies are managing that. Okay. Well the First of all, it's something that they know in advance before they book So so you're you know, I would like to go from here to downtown Madrid And then if I'm you know making this request at the wrong time to am then they say, okay It's more costly, but I can still make the call. So it's not it's and it's not unexpected Exposed pricing that I get it's upfront so I can I'm still in control of the decision and Of course, there are limits to this so and I would say That it's within certain boundaries is something that is well accepted I think that it can be You know counterproductive if it goes out of these certain ranges or in certain occasions say that there is I don't know a fire and then you know Your search price algorithm if nobody is looking actively and knowing why is it that there is so much demand You could say oh, hey great great demand, you know increase prices and then you you can get like extremely negative reputation out of this But but of course, this is something that can be tested and that can be And so you you know what are the limits of this? So if you have high prices said say that you go too far in that you can see people, you know making a request and not booking so so you have all this information and you So the short-term impact you can measure very accurately the long-term implications. It's a bit more difficult to measure Yeah, so basically if this uncertainty makes me not even ask for a quotation, then it is and again This is something that can also be measured to see whether people go unactive when they have been exposed to extremely Diverse prices. So the beauty of this like data natives companies is that you can pretty much Model and measure all these things But so all this to say that it can be measured it can be optimized from a business perspective My impression is that within certain boundaries is something that is well accepted as it is for flying as it is for hotels Actually, I would argue that the variation in this service is a lot In in in rides is a lot lower than than than hotels and airplanes Okay, I think we ran out of time if anybody has additional questions I'll be happy to answer you can find me at the at the booth of kernel analytics. So thank you very much you guys