Clemens, how's it going? Can you hear me? Clemens? Can you hear me now? Yes, I can hear you now. Okay. I was having a chat with my microphone earlier in the week. I have failed to upload the document even though I've been editing like while, but I've been, I just missed the deadline. There's just too much going on. Okay. So I'm already on markdown with that subscription document. So I'm going to go and I'm going to upload this in like probably not today, but tomorrow morning. Sounds good to me. Hey Scott. From quarantine. I'm sorry. I hope you're good. Did they actually tell you to stay home or do they just say it's your choice? No. Well, there better be a really good reason to come to the office or be within six feet of anybody. Interesting. Okay. My world hasn't changed, but it feels more like a bonger now. Fewer cookies. I went to the Sounders game. It's a big sporting event here. Well, soccer game. And then the next game is canceled because we broke the rules by congregating in 30,000 people. Oh, geez. Yeah. I went to a football game on Sunday. That just, that still happened. And yesterday we had our big local derby against Cologne. And that was without spectators, which was weird. So we all watched, but like I had my stadium friends and watched on TV with them here. And now the discussion is whether they're going to go and cancel the entire league. Italy already did and Spain did. And that is like Italy in Spain without football is, I mean, that's, that's a real state of emergency. And, you know, Italy has all the restaurants shut down at all the stores and everything. It's quite grave. Yeah. Hey, John. Hey, Tommy. Hey. Wait a minute. Was that Tommy? Did you actually speak? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's like a first. I must have caught you off guard there for a minute. You weren't thinking straight, were you? Yeah. There you go. Okay. I'm sorry to pick on you, but it's just funny. Hey, Eric. Hello, Doug. You know, they're extending my son's spring break vacation from college, and they're going to start doing classes online, which means he's at home now, which isn't, you know, a bad thing unto itself other than he keeps really, really weird hours.  So he eats a lot. So he's at like, he's up at like three or four in the morning in the kitchen cooking stuff.  So he's loud. So I'm getting very little sleep these days. And it's very annoying.  Hey, Ginger. Good morning, Doug. Good morning. Hey, Kathy. Welcome. It's been a while. Oh, hi. Good morning. Sorry, I was on mute. No, no problem. Morning, Jeff. Hey, good morning. Related to the previous topic, I think Doug will like this. You know, the company's been doing off-sites, but because of budgeting reasons, off-sites have now usually been on-site, but they're still called off-site because it's like, maybe you travel to a different office. And then those got canceled and they're going to be virtual. So now they are virtual off-sites. It was going to be on-site, but now it's virtual, but it's still called an off-site, virtual off-site. It's just amazing. And even if they would have had an on-site, it still would have turned into a virtual meeting. So it's just another meeting. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's beyond the conference call all day. Oh, man. All right, let's see who we have on now. Klaus, are you there? Yes, I'm you. Hello, and Nacho. Whoa, good God. Hold on a minute. My screen is getting all weird. Yes. Yeah, Nacho, if I can spell it right. I apologize. Vinay, are you there? Yes, I'm here. And Mr. Grant. All right, first time on meeting. Okay, yeah. All right, cool. All right. We usually wait until three after you guys are in here. So give it a minute or two. Thank you, Grant. James, are you there? I am here. Hey, this isn't your first call, is it? Yeah, it's the first one I made of this one. I actually signed up for the wrong call initially, so I only figured that out, honestly. Okay. To me, it's a favor. Let me paste the link to the minutes. You can just put your company name. Here's the link to the minutes. I want to be clear. I'm not officially representing my company. I'm here more as we talked about around the book, but... Okay, in that case, I'll just say yourself. That's fine. That's fine. Okay, cool. All right, it is three after. See if I miss anybody, then we'll get started. Okay, I got everybody. Okay, let's go ahead and jump into it. Okay, community time. Anything from the community people want to bring up? That's not on the agenda. Okay, I'm not hearing any. SDK, Scott or Clemens or anybody else who made the call last week, was there anything worth you bringing up? Okay, not hearing anything. That was in the middle of getting refactored to V2. We're not quite done yet. Okay. Yeah, I think one of the things we discussed was also how long we want to keep all the old versions around. Yeah, we're going to do a special provision for O3 for new SDKs. So that's... That's the... So basically, O3 is being the one that we still support and then testing the other ones. Yeah, we'll talk about that a little bit later. This PR down here, we talked about that a little and I did update that based upon our discussions. So we can talk about that again down there. Okay, any questions for the SDK team? Okay, Kathy, since you're on, is there anything you'd like to update the group on relative to the workflow stuff? Oh, yeah, sorry. No, not really. Sorry, I haven't really got much time to work on that. Okay, that's fine. Just give me the opportunity. Thank you. If I jump back up the SDK, I put a link in for the SDK subgroup next week. I have an Elixir SDK in the works that I would like folks to take a look at. Cool. Wait a minute. Actually, I'll do it later. Yeah, I'll add a link to that information into here. Just people, it draws people attention to it. I can drop it in. Oh, cool. That'd be even better. Thank you. In that case, let's go ahead and jump into the delivery stuff. Tell you what, I think yours actually might be shorter. Let's have you go first and then we'll jump over to Mike's PR. So what we did is, yeah, my story is shorter. So what we did this week is we actually didn't work on this document at all, but we broke out into a... So I took this at the... Basically, after our previous call, I took the text that's here and put that into Word doc as an interim step to preserve the formatting. And then, meanwhile, I have this down in Markdown. But I've done some cleanup on terminology and I'm turning this more into spec language, but I have not been editing like crazy. But with everything that's going on, I've just not been able to complete the homework. So I'm sorry. And I will... I aim to upload that Markdown document as a PR tomorrow. I think one of the things... So one of the key things we did in terms of clarifications is, since pull and push were contested and, you know, with some... And I'm buying some of the arguments, I'm trying to distinguish between effectively who's initiating the communication, whether the delivery... And really, like, what is the delivery model? So you'll see a term subscriptions with customer... Sorry, with consumer solicited delivery and subscriptions with subscription manager initiated delivery. Those are effectively the differences between pull and push to clarify what I mean there. And otherwise, the spec will go as far as to define, effectively, what the API looks like, the subscription manager API looks like in the abstract, but will not yet have to be down to the HTTP level definitions likely. But it will contain what we discussed in previous calls, like the filter, the simple filter syntax, etc. But again, so that's as much as I have. Go and take a look at the PR sometime tomorrow and you'll find a link to the document. Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Thank you. Any questions or comments for Clemens? All right. Not hearing any. Let me bring up Mike's PR so you can talk to that. I apologize in advance for not having much to say. I have not had a chance to work through all of the comments yet. It has been a crazy week. Short and sweet. Okay. Any questions for Mike? Those of you who don't know, Seattle is in a panic right now. I don't know why. Yeah. Any questions or comments? Okay. So just set of curiosity. And this question isn't actually just for you, Mike. It's actually for anybody, but just using your PR as a sort of a guinea pig here. At what point do you guys feel like we should just merge this PR? Obviously, most of the comments are addressed, but is there any like minimum bar you guys have in mind in terms of when we can actually merge the PR, or is it pretty much all the initial comments are addressed? You can just merge it at that point. We'll just do PRs against it because it's just like I need a doc in the repo. Do you guys have any opinion on that just from a process perspective? I just want to make sure we're not missing some step here that people think we needed to go through before we actually merge it. I think of this as the input spec, and then we start refining it. So I mean, we need to light it at some point. And I think we need to get to be able to comment effectively. We need to have a base stocking in the repo. So I don't think we need to, we can review on there. And it's a draft. And I mean, this is the same process as iterating over our base spec. That's the way I look at it. Yeah, I definitely, I think I tend to agree. The only reason I ask the question is sometimes it's easier to work outside the PR process if you have large scale changes you want to make, which is why we started, you know, with a Google doc to begin with and stuff like that. I just didn't want to preemptively merge this thing if somebody thought from a process perspective, we should hold off a little, but I'm not hearing anybody really jump up and objecting. Yeah, it's fairly hard to collaborate if it's not merged. I think if the original group of people who were in the sub working groups are saying, this is ready, then it should go in. The consensus I'm trying to get for our group is that everybody nods to the, this is our result. And then we're going to go merge it. So the document I'm going to give you all on tomorrow is not that yet. I'm still going to go and collect feedback from the group, but then I think we're ready to go at that point then. Okay. Anybody else have any comments on that? All right. Yeah, I think on this one, I'll make sure to note at the top that this is a working draft of the document. Oh, good point. Yeah, actually, you may want to, I think in the past we used to say like, it already says that. Well, status of this document. Oh, yeah. I was actually wondering about up here. Whether this is like version 0.1-RC or something like that, because I think that's the pattern we used to use because it's not technically a zero one yet, right? Yeah, it's like a pre-zero one. I can better see no one. Yeah, that's it. And I might put something in there like that. Other than that, it looks good. Any other questions or comments? Okay, easy enough. And thank you, Mike, for the link to the SDK. I'm moving forward. Okay, here we go. So I can remember for sure, other than I'm pretty sure Clemens, you said you were going to take a look at this PR to make sure there wasn't anything funky in here. Did you get a chance to do that? Or did anybody else look at it? Have any comments? I think I, yes, I think I promised, but I didn't. Okay, well, I'll give you guys in particular Clemens a chance to just double check and just to refresh people's memory, the must hear and the must hear are technically breaking changes, but the assumption from last week's call was that we assumed that that's what we meant to do. It's just more of a syntactical thing at this point, because that was always the intention for these requirements to be there. Yes. Yeah, I remember now. Yeah, I think this is okay. And I think that's where we were. Yes, also last time. Yes, I just want to give people a chance to look it over. Okay, any other questions or comments on this one? Any objections or approving? All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Okay, this one. Well, this one is not ready to merge, because if we like it, if you like the general direction, I need to make the similar changes to the other transport bindings. Hold on a sec. Let me hide the comments. So just to refresh people's memory, there was a little bit of, there was lack of clarity in our specification in terms of knowing whether a binary message is a cloud event or not. For structured, it's obviously very easy. You can look at the content type, but for a binary, it wasn't clear. So this text in here basically says if all the required attributes, and I believe there's four of them appear as HTTP headers, then you can kind of assume it's a cloud event. Now, based upon slinky developers' comments, he had me change the wording slightly to make it clear in terms of what that means to think it's a cloud event. Does that mean it is a cloud event, or you can just start parsing it, hoping it's a cloud event or whatever. And so what I did is I modified the text here. Where is it? Where is it? Oh, yeah, it's up here. If I talk about it about whether the message ought to be attempted to be parsed as a cloud event. And then down here, I talk about how, you know, if all the four attributes are there, then you can start that process. However, just because those four attributes are there does not mean it's technically a valid cloud event. It still has to adhere to all the normative language in the specification. So for example, there are musts in there relative to values and stuff like that. If they don't meet those musts, even if they are, even if they do have the attributes, it's still not a valid cloud event. I don't go into what the implementation does if it's invalid, that's completely up to it because we stay out of the processing model. But I think this at least clarifies whether someone should at least attempt to parse it by the presence or absence of those four attributes. So I have a question here. So we are referring to the attributes in the HTTP headers to increase the probability that we determine. The problem that I'm struggling with and please help me if I'm mistaken is it still doesn't give us confidence that it could be a cloud event. So what is it actually helping? Is it clarify anything or is it just confusing it a little bit more? I mean, does that make sense? We're saying then it's probably a cloud event. Why are we not able to unambiguously determine that if those attributes do exist that it is a cloud event? In my mind, there are two reasons why we can't say for sure. One is our specification cannot mandate that people do not use our attributes randomly. So someone could say, hey, those look kind of like interesting attributes and I'm going to stick them in my message, but they don't actually know about our specification. So the presence of those attributes technically doesn't mean anything because they don't adhere to the full-blown spec. So we can't force people not to use our attributes. So their presence in a message does not guarantee anything. It's just a hint that it may actually be a cloud event. Now, even if the person meant for it to be a cloud event, if they messed up and didn't adhere to the rest of the specification, according to the spec, because they didn't adhere to all the musts and stuff like that, if it doesn't adhere to those, it is not a valid cloud event. And all we're trying to say here is we can't be definitive one way or the other, but we're trying to provide some guidance on what people should look for to try to see whether it actually meets the criteria. So for example, if it doesn't have those attributes in there, then they shouldn't even bother trying to parse it as a cloud event because it's not going to pass. Correct. So it's just a more of a filtering mechanism. Yeah, kind of. And that's why if you look at it, technically, there's no normative language in here, right? This is just sort of abstract guidance. And in a lot of ways, I actually thought about putting this into the primer. But I thought this might be important enough that it should go into the spec because I've got more than one, people have asked me this question more than once. Thanks, Tim. Any other questions or comments? Does this seem like the right direction to go? And if so, I can make the changes to the other specs as appropriate or the other transport specs as appropriate. Okay, not turning the objection. I'll make the changes to the other specs and then we can maybe review it and approve it next week. Okay. Thank you, everybody. Okay, this one. Technically, it's an SDK thing, but I wanted to give everybody else a chance to review it. Now, on last week's call, we were talking about what are the requirements for what these aren't hard requirements, right? These are pretty much just suggestions, but we're trying to talk about what are the requirements for SDK authors. And last time we talked about everybody obviously should support the latest and n minus one of the major releases. Within a major release, they only need to support the latest version, you know, where the latest minor version. However, we do have sort of the bootstrap problem of what do you do when the latest version is 1.0? What is the n minus one at that point? So according to the agreement we talked about last week, I added a note here that says one point is a special case. And in those cases, people should support 0.3. So Scott and Clemens, is that consistent with what I think we agreed to last week? That's my understanding, yes. Yeah. Okay. Any questions or comments on this? Oh, yes, John. That's a should and not a must, right? This isn't, but technically it's not a normative spec, so yes. Either way, yes. That's right. That's always going to point out the same thing. I'm sorry, John, I couldn't hear you. Can you say that again? I was actually going to point out the same thing. Oh, okay. The people starting a new SDK right now is problematic, right? They're going to go backwards to support 0.3. So yeah, it should just be should, not a must. Yes. Yep. And I think I have a big recollection that we did talk a little bit about that last week as well. But I'll just keep in mind this isn't a normative spec. That's why it's lowercase should and can instead of capital should. But these are all just suggestions. So, okay. Any objection to approving that? All right. Thank you. All right. So I put this on the list, even though Clemens raised an issue with it today. So some Googlers are working on, excuse me, PubSubbinding for their offering. And Clemens, you pointed out, hold on, where is it? Where did you say that, Clemens? Somewhere in there. Yeah, I don't know. I saw it. You just had it. It's painful. What Clemens said. There we go. Okay. Yes. So you want to raise the issue here? I don't think there's any objection, but just hope you understand why things may change radically. We, we, qualifying protocol and encodings is the section that we wrote together about what is acceptable to get official binding and watches and what is not. Google called, Google Cloud PubSubb is a proprietary product. And therefore we have a document that is the proprietary products link document that takes links. So this spec and should be hosted in a Google repository and then pointed to part of the rules. Yes. Thank you, Clemens, for pointing out. It was my bad. I didn't know about the rule. I'm trying to move this to a repo and then add the link here. But actually I'm glad that I made the mistake because I had some really good comments from Crystal then that will probably address and then add the link as well. I think it's, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm totally not against having that. It's great that we have, you know, as much coverage as possible. It's just that we have, I just want to point out that rule and nothing bad has happened. It's all good. Yes. But yeah, you guys are right. I didn't know about the rule and we'll move it out. Yes. So great. Thank you. Okay. So expect a, I think a fairly radical change to the PR. But obviously if you guys want to review it and provide feedback, obviously not so, as Nacho said, you know, more feedback is, appears to be welcome. So get it in there quickly before the tech stack disappears. All right. And one question there regarding timelines. So when we add this, this might be approved next week. We need to wait for a week until the next working group meeting for this link to be approved. Technically, yes. Technically, we only approve PRs during the week unless they're, you know, typographical type things. If you can get the change in there by Tuesday night, then people should be able to review it and approve it by Thursday. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. And Jim, your hand was up there for a second. Did you want to say something? I retracted my thought.  I mean, if the intention here is that this PR would turn into essentially just a link to another spec, is there any sort of onus on us to make sure that whatever that link is pointing at actually works? That's really what I was driving at. Yeah. There was never, right, like the link to third party was best intention. So if the spec is correct according to that vendor, then that's fine. Yeah, I mean, that was my thought. I just wanted to raise it, but yeah, that was why I lowered my hand again. Didn't we either talk about or put text someplace that said it's within our right to remove things if we think they're pointing to old or bad information or something like that? Yeah, I think we had a provision to delete links, but not really the spec that's linked. Yeah. But I think, I think, Jim, you raised an interesting question, which is, you know, how does somebody just ask for our review, even though it's not necessary, you know, I'm trying to think, I think most obvious thing is maybe they can raise an issue just to draw our attention to it. And then once they get, you know, a couple of reviews, they can close the issue, but I'm wondering more about whether we should add some text someplace in either this doc right here to explain that people have that option to open an issue to draw our attention to it or to join our weekly call to draw our attention to it or something like that. Do you think that would be helpful, Jim? I think there needs to be something front and center somewhere that says, you know, if you're doing a proprietary binding that this is what, you know, this is what it should do, you know, look at these, you know, take them as a template and then, you know, open a PR on the page we're looking at to cross-reference stuff. Yeah. Because I think that's where your maybe SDK people are going to get interested as other bindings start showing up. So, yeah, I don't quite sure where you put it. That's what I'm struggling with. In the interest or in the theme of no good decos unpunished, would you like to take a first pass at a PR to add some text to that effect? Yes. I'll teach you to speak up. I appreciate that. Thank you, Jim. And I knew I'd be dropping off in a minute so you won't get any more bizarre questions. That was a good one. I like it because more guidance we can provide would be good. Okay. Cool. All right. Next on the list and Slinky developer has joined us. So, we have this issue that he opened and then you made a comment down here. Would you like to talk about what you're proposing that we do with this issue? Yeah. So, the thing is that the paragraph about key, it just points to that partition key, sorry to the partition with the partitioning extension, which honestly is just confusing because key is a really well-defined concept in the Kafka message specification. So, just saying the key extension must match to the Kafka message key. It's far more clear than saying there is a partition key extractor that extracts things and then put inside a key but then you open the partition extension and it's called the partition key extension. So, I think it would be better to just remove the link to the partitioning extension and say, hey, when you create a cloud event that goes on the Kafka wire, then you need to put the Kafka and you need to put the key, the message as an extension. As an extension named key. To me, it sounds far more clear this way than going through the partitioning extension and the partition key extractor. Jim, did you want to say something? I must admit I haven't read the full text here. So, I'm not entirely sure what the problem is. The partitioning of cloud events is agnostic to transports. But I think when that extension was added, it was there to enable a Kafka transport binding to take advantage of it if it was present. Yeah. So, I'm not quite sure why we would want to remove that linkage. Because I should be able to produce a cloud event and define a potential partitioning key irrespective of the transport it goes over. And in fact, it may go over transports that don't do partitioning. But we wanted that to be retained across multiple transports. So, that's where it gets interesting. If you publish an event onto Kafka and it goes through an intermediary and gets moved to a different transport or vice versa, you need that partitioning concept at the cloud event level. We might actually have a conceptual, there might be some miswording here in the Kafka binding. Because the partition, and that might lead to that confusion. The partition key or partition ID doesn't actually show up in the message per se. But it's the partition that you talk to in Kafka. And you're talking to the partition directly. So, that's a connection property, ultimately. And we're pulling that. So, this function here is effectively pulling that information out of the message. And then making that something that's related to the connection. So, it's not a key per se. But it's really how does, for Kafka, how can you tell which partition to set to? And that is by looking at the partitioning extension by default. But it could also be any other key. That's what the mechanism is meant to do. I'm a little confused by that. Because I would expect that the partition key would be have the Kafka partition selection algorithm applied to it in order to select the partition. Especially since partitions can move around and such. So, maybe you can help me get unconfused. And I think that's what my comment does again. I mean, that's what I say in this issue. When you say partition key to a Kafka user, it's the key of the message or is the partition ID? It's not really clear from the beginning. And also, there is the typo that in the spec, it states key while in the partitioning extension, it says partition key. Yeah. I agree that that's confusing. I don't have a solution for it. It's just that that is confusing. Because the way we discussed this, we probably didn't follow through and update this correctly, is that this key extractor, the key extractor idea basically just stems from having to effectively assign a message to a partition. And that there is a function that does that job, and that depending on what that transport is, and Kafka being that, there might be a hash function that you use for this, or that you may want to go and specify the partition directly. And so that that effectively the partition is the partition is something that's a kind of a flexible assignment. And that the partition itself cannot be manifested in the typically isn't manifested in the event per se. That's the thing we tried to kind of decouple those things. What we didn't want to do is write the partition ID directly into the event, also because if you forward the event into a downstream Kafka broker, so you have effectively you use for instance use mirror maker, and you go from a four partition to a 16 partition to a four partition broker. If you use a key function, if you use a key, then the the partitions will distribute differently. And if you use if you use a stable partition number, then if you go from the four partition to a six partition Kafka install, you would basically just go and send from four partitions to four partitions. And you would have 12 partitions that are idle. So the idea was here to have a way to dynamically in the client determine from the partition key, what the partition number would be. And of course, the key attribute here is kind of shooting that in the, it's probably it's not the proper resolution in the Kafka stack based on discussion that we've been having. So I think that's where some of the confusion comes from. And I would think that we've had some of those discussions in the PRs. So we probably have to go and dig back into the history and find that. So I had a comment about this. Is is the problem the implementation of that function that populates that attribute? Or is it the naming of the attribute? And I think it sounds like that should be those should be separated, right? So depending on if it's Kafka downstream, then the, you know, the appropriate partition key function is factored, which has knowledge on the number of brokers and how the best implementation versus the overloading of, I mean, the attribute is key and how it gets populated are two separate things. Is that a fair comment? Yes, yes. So yes, it is. I think I think we've been, we've been a little lazy and hand wavy on this point where we basically left this with this function. And then I think we thought we had that solved the function, the function ultimately in this transport binding takes by default this partition key. That's what this extract key extractor function is. And it goes and determines what the partition ID only shows up in your usage of the Kafka API, or if you want to go further a little bit further down in the Kafka protocol, but doesn't materialize in the message per se. The key here, the key attribute, I think that's a, that's a left over that, that we didn't drop as we were having that discussion, or we didn't clarify that here. So the, the, the, the, the, the key, the, yeah, so ultimately, let me, let me back out once. The idea is you should be able to specify some criterion in the message that will then go and determine what your partition number is without that key or the partition ID having to be manifested in the message per se, because the, the mapping of the, of the message to a partition may be different as you're rounding that event through multiple kinds of, kinds of infrastructures that are partitioned. Correct. Thanks. Yeah. Actually, can I just maybe suggest that we take a concrete example, like, and then say what was that key being. So I think we're all in agreement that the key should be, I don't know, implementation agnostic, but from the key, we want to extract some data that would indicate how it should be used by this extraction function to determine downstream choices, right? Cool. Yeah. So make that concrete. If I, if I wanted to say that my partition criterion is actually the subject that's in the, in the, in the event, I should be able to do so. So let's say I have an, I have an event that events that are coming where the source is a device of sorts and that emits all kinds of telemetry and then the subject is temperature and then other subject is whatever rotations per minute, the other one is so different criteria that are happening and they're all on the subject. I should then be able to go and have a function that then assigns those two partitions. So I, so that function might be knowledgeable of the, of the numbers of, numbers of partitions in my immediately in the Kafka implementation that's immediately in front of me. Let's say that has four. So the function is some kind of hash over the subject, mod four. That's how I get the partition ID. Now I pull that stream out and now I'm taking the same, the same, the same streams like the, all the data that comes out of that Kafka cluster and I want to go forward that now to a different Kafka cluster, but that has 16 partitions. So I should go and, and again run a function that is some hash over the subject, mod 16. And I get the, and I get a different, different kinds of partitions. That's, that's what I mean. Correct. Correct. No, that's perfect. So now where, where should the responsibility of the knowledge of that particular, let's say Kafka cluster should be? I mean, I think that's the point here, right? We, I think we all agree. It must be, it must be in the forwarding client. It must be in the implementation that is, that is interacting with that, that is implementing this, this, the transport binding. The way how we thought about this, like as we have evolved these things is that as we get into these scenarios where we're actually forwarding all this data and forwarding is something that is, so the reason why I'm, why I'm forwarding was, was a point of discussion in this whole time was that industrial scenarios, for instance, have this device, device emits telemetry and then the telemetry goes to dozens of parties who might be interested in that information for all kinds of different reasons. So there's, there are forward, there are those forwarding scenarios. And in those forwarding scenarios, we've, we've talked about transcoding scenarios, etc. So we always assume that you're taking a cloud event off a transport, then the cloud event becomes, goes back into its abstract form, and then it gets mapped down to a transport, and then goes through that, this leg of its route, and then you pull that off that transport, it goes back into its abstract form, and then you're choosing a different transport. So for here, effectively the, the, the client, the cloud events Kafka clients that is connected to a concrete cluster will then know how many partitions exist, and it will then go and calculate what the appropriate partition is for that cluster. And somewhere else on the route, another client may make a very different partition decision. Yeah, sorry. One sentence. And that is why, and that is why the partition number, right, the concrete partition hint cannot be in the message because the decisions on the route will be different. Correct. I completely agree with you. So I think, and maybe, you know, when we talk in abstract, it's hard to, at least for me to grab my head around it, but what you just said was perfect. So what, what that meant to me was the forwarding client, let's say you had four Kafka clusters, but there's a config which at some point, which when the rubber hits the road needs to tell it, it has, I don't know, four brokers, 12 brokers, 13 brokers, and this is the extraction function. And it knows how to take a generic key and map it to when it determines what that routing needs to be, it knows how to appropriately choose the hashing function and do it. So coming back to our original point, which in my understanding, I think we, we should not bring in the partition key attribute, but just keep it generic as key. Is that fair? I think this, I think what we need to do is we need to make a correction here and, and basically say the key, we need to be, we need to make clear, and it's not clear here that the key attribute really means what is the partition that we're sending to. So we need to reword, I believe we need to go and do a bug fix here, which is, is the partition ID, the Kafka partition ID is determined through a partition key extractor function. And we might also call this, we might also call this different. And which is independent of the name of that in the generic message. Yes. So, so we need, we need to go, we need to do a bug fix here. I can, I can take this, I can take this as a, as a homework item to, to propose a correction. So, so come on, I've got a question for you because I'm not 100% sure I'm following this, but I think I understood what you just said there at the end, but it's not clear to me whether something actually appears in the message related to, so, so nothing appears in the message relative to keys or partition keys or anything like that. Correct. And that's, I think that's what the bug is. We're talking about a key attribute here still, but we actually talked ourselves out of it while we were discussing this whole thing. And then we, we left that in. But does that mean that we should then propose to kill off this extension right here? No, no, the partitioning extension that, that, what that gives you is it gives you a partition key. And the partition key is if you need, if you can't, if you can't have a, if you can't derive from the message content itself, what partition that ought to belong to, you need to have some artificial criteria and by which you can go and order that. So, so you might have, you, the partition key is effectively an artificial correlation key of some sort. So you're saying this is almost like a backup kind of a thing? Well, it's, it's so if you, if you can't determine only through source and, and type and subject, how you want to process that, because that's ultimately what, what partitioning does, right? Partitioning is, is slicing up your event stream in a way that the processor can deal with it or processors can deal with it, which means that the publisher may give hints in the form of a partition key for how those events shall be mapped to partitions. And the partition key might quite well be a totally artificial assignment that the application logic kind of generates in some way and how it groups events. And those groups, groups of events, maybe groups of, let's say maybe groups of devices, you have a thousand devices, which are all different, all different sources and sending different events, but you're grouping them together, like a production lot that all then emits the same partition key, because you want to have them together. That's what that partition key, that is, that is what that partition key is generally for. And then that function that we're referring to here, the goal of the job of that function is to go and then look at either something that is in the metadata of the message, or that partitioning, that partition key, and then effectively compute a partition ID out of it. And computation may, in the simplest case, the partition key may simply be a number from one to four, right? May simply go and take it and copy it, and then go and set that as the partition ID for the Kafka client. Okay. I think it's surrounded it's Joe. Francisco, did you want to say something? Yeah, so if I'm just talking from what you're saying, what you describe here is more a client and SDK behavior than something that I should put inside the event, when I send the event and when I receive the event. That's, yeah, that's exactly right. Because this is completely not clear. Yeah, that's exactly because the way how those clients, so Kafka on the Kafka record itself, right, doesn't even have that information. And neither does neither does our event of also doesn't have that information. Like the partition is something that, the partition information is something that is outside of the event. And it's really only relevant for the senders and the receivers, how they get the stuff out. But it becomes completely irrelevant once you are forwarding that event elsewhere. So it's simply, it's really just a local function for a local concern for that particular Kafka cluster. Okay, it's okay. Can I just ask a last thing to you? So after you work on rewording this paragraph, can you please check the implementation that we did in the SDK code? So we can double check if this, how the spec maps to the actual implementation. Yeah, I will try my best to, I will look at the code and then make sure that whatever I write will make the code be compliant. Yeah, yeah, I mean, if the code needs to be changed, it's fine for me. It's not a problem. Just, just so I just want to be at this thing. All right. Okay. So Kathy has a question. Yeah. Okay, so I just want to make sure the key defined here maps to the key in the Kafka, which the producer can put into his message. And then the Kafka broker can, you know, use that key to map that message to a specific partition. Yeah, the Kafka broker doesn't do that. The clients do. Okay, but because in Kafka, in Kafka in particular, the since Kafka doesn't have a, doesn't have a shared gateway, but is architecturally monolith, the way how you find out, the way how you talk to partitions is you connect directly to the broker holds the partition, which means you need to know ahead of time, which partition you're selecting. And that's where the clients are actually doing that job. Okay. But it can also use something else to map the message to the partition, right? And that is what the function is, right? That is, that is what just meant with that function. Ultimately, you need to get a number out, which you then can then hand to the Kafka SDK. Oh, so this partition key structure is that function, which does the mapping? Yes, because we may have the partition key, right, is a generic mechanism that exists in the, in the cloud events extension. There are other brokers outside of Kafka, which all have partitioning models. So the goal for that partition key mechanism is to be generic and then be usable by all the other, by the other brokers, which also need partitioning. So this is a particular implementation here. And that should, and that should map to the partition ID. So we basically, we made a mistake by not cleaning this up when we, when we landed on the solution with that, with that function. We didn't, we just didn't do that, right? Yeah, but I just think this function name is a little bit confusing because it said is a extractor. That means extractor key, but actually it's do the mapping too, right? And also this function might do the mapping, you say, not, I mean, not, not based on the key, right? It could, it's, so, so this name, because otherwise, you know, this name just means it's like the key, always also true, it's like key. But if it's a function, if it's a mapping from the message to a partition, specific partition that, you know, it's, I mean, based on some other criteria, we shouldn't call it the key extractor, right? Well, that's right. And that should be a mapping function. I'll, I'll try to dig up from the, we had several issues and PRs about this. I'll go and mine the repo for the debates that we have had about this. I mean, we may also have had those on the call. And if we did, then that's going to be harder to find. But I'll try to dig that, dig that up. And if I can find it, then I'll put it into the, into the, into the issue here, or the PR here. So, reference. So, Clemens, just trying to understand this, because when I'm reading the text in here, it seems to me that, excuse me, that while the wording may not be exactly what we want, is, is what's written here actually wrong? Or is it just a little misleading? Because the way I'm reading this is, is that it says, there's an extractor function that people will use to figure out what partition to put things into. But if that either isn't there, or you want some sort of default extractor function, then we offer up this partition extension thing you could use. But really, if the extractor function that's the main, the main way of getting the partition key. Yes, that's right. Okay, so it's just a more, it's more of a wording thing more than anything else, is that true? It's a wording thing. I don't think we want to go and change the mechanism, but it's, it's really about, you know, clarifying the mechanism. Okay, okay, just want to make sure we're on the same page. Okay, thank you. It's not the key attribute, it's the partition ID that we want for Kafka specifically. It's also, what's also weird is that that's not really using using Kafka nomenclature here. So we'll, we'll go, I'll make a proposal to clean this up. I hope that the, the, the, the, the wording change will be minimal. I think it's also good to clarify. Yeah, this key is not the partition ID. It could be used by the matching function to map to a partition ID, or it might, it's all the partition, the mapping function can use other attributes to map the message to partition, for partition, right? So if we can clarify that would be, or we can just say this key map to the key in the, this partition key, map to the key of the Kafka, that maybe make it clear. Okay, does anybody have any questions or concerns about the direction the teams are headed with us? I think just the last comment is the whole point of a key and a partition key and everything is very Kafka specific, right? And it's, it's, and I think it was also mentioned, I think by Kathy that, you know, everything else is extracting that using metadata in the message to extract the partition key. So it's something that is in the, in the client and the client function, right? There's, there is no key in the message. That is correct. There is no, well, there is no, there is no partition ID in the message. There might be something that's usable as a key in the message. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, exactly. The key attribute, the key attribute that is described here makes no sense in the message. Correct, correct. Exactly. And I think I would like, I think we should, my only point, my last point is, thank you for this discussion. It's been extremely helpful. I think we should just mention that there is no key attribute in the message. The point is, it's, it's symbolic, which is extracted from metadata in the message to facilitate downstream actions. But I'm going to rename, I'm going to rename that, I'm going to rename that section from three, three, one, I'm going to rename it into partition ID and then clarify effectively the first, the first sentence will probably be two and there I'll be talking about the relationship between the partition ID and the message. The one thing that isn't quite clear to me though is, as he was just saying, if there's nothing in the message, what does that mean for this extension? So there might be something in the, if you really, if you want to have something in the message, if you, if you, if you need to have an artificial key, right, artificial key to derive the, the partition ID from them, it's that. Okay. So, okay, so it's, there's not a must, it's something that appears in the message, but there's a, it's a may, okay. And that's, and that's why we, that's why we have this as a, as an extension, because it's not applicable to all cases, but in case you have a partition log or, or, or, or queue, whatever, then you need to have a partition, partition key of some sorts. And because that is not too uncommon, we made an extension out of it. The partition key extractor can ignore key if, if it wants to. Yes. But this, what doesn't make sense here is for, for a transport binding to add stuff into the message, like to add stuff into the event that, that is already, I think that's already a foul. Okay. Before we rattle too much on this, but I think it was a good discussion. Any other questions or comments? All right, cool. So Clemens, I wrote you as taking the AI to provide some caravine text on that. So thank you. You're welcome. More homework for me to be laid on. That's right. You can never have too much homework. All right. That's technically the end of the agenda. Any other topics people want to bring up? Okay. Go ahead, Kathy. Sorry, this pops up binding. Is that Google specific or is a generic one? That is, that is a Google specific binding and they're going to move that, or they're going to change that pull request so that it's just a pointer to their binding that we hosted on their website. Okay. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Oh, here we go. Wait a minute. Christoph, are you there? Yeah, hi. And laugh better late than never. Gotcha. We're just about to end. Yeah, I just noticed that I'd save 70. Yes, I miss that one. Sorry. I suspect I hit a lot of people. Okay. In that case, you guys, I guess that's the end of the call. Unless somebody has anything else they want to bring up. Vlad, are you there? Yeah, I just joined. Yeah. Unfortunately, daylight savings times, bitcha. So we're technically over. I totally forgot that. I apologize. I probably should have sent that a note to remind people, but it completely slipped my mind. I'm sorry. This is a fail on my side. Don't worry about it. Okay. Anyway, I think that's it for the day, unless I miss somebody for the agenda. We'll talk again next week, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Sorry. Bye. Bye.


Well I can say happy Sunday morning still because it's not noon yet so happy Sunday morning. It's December 20th I think and it's 11 36 a.m and obviously we're in the car. We've got the house sort of cleaned up and we're out running a few errands. We'd like to get done today so we don't hopefully have to go out again this week until like after Christmas maybe so we'll see how that goes and I got an interesting Etsy order in today that my first Etsy order with an invalid address so I've messaged the customer question we'll see what happens with that it's also overseas so she's going to hopefully be okay with me making the sticker sheet smaller so they fit this smaller envelope or postage is going to be insane so we'll see what happens um that was an interesting way to start off Sunday anyway we're headed to the garden shop and the hardware store and the grocery store so we'll be guys it is just after four o'clock on Monday December 21st I think I know it's late in the day right I have been busy today and the cleaning lady is here and before anybody asks of course she's working for us safely she's masked we're staying far away from her while she is working if she's downstairs we're upstairs if she's upstairs we're downstairs if we need to one of us run errands that one will go out of go do that one of course always stays home but yeah we do it very safely she's masked the entire time um anyway I'm out checking the mail I also had to send out some masks to my parents they need more masks because I think they're giving them all away I keep sending a box of masks and I think they're giving them away so since I think that's what's going on I'm sending them extras because that's fine just let me know I still need to make sure my parents are safe um Wendy letty just left as she finished getting the house clean and working for the day and we were gonna go walking when she left only I don't think we're going walking it is after lunch let's see it is 12 26 p.m. Tuesday December 22nd I think um spent the morning doing a live broadcast we did two pages in the December daily cut a bunch more snowflakes because I ran out and got all of that done and then got the mess cleaned up from doing that and now Bob is putting together some furniture that I got for Christmas for the guest room I think Fred's putting together some nightstands for me this room up here we also got a a desk for this room because you see that giant thing right there that's an old computer that takes five and a quarter inch floppies and it's accompanying floppies I don't know that we'll plug it in I'm a little scared to even like try that but I do want to put it up on a desk somewhere it's a fun conversation piece so yeah we'll probably go for a walk later as long as it doesn't start pouring again yeah what are you all doing today fun stuff I hope all right that's it for the minute I'll be back I got some painting done and I finally got the Moody River painting I think is finished and I'll put some pictures here from start to finish I started this painting back in March at the beginning of the pandemic pandemic hit and I sort of got lost a few times anyway I think it's done now uh Bob put together there he is some new furniture for the upstairs guest room looks really great up there and uh yeah we just kind of put it away in the house on things I needed doing we're gonna go for a walk now it's a little bit drizzly but that's okay I'm not the wicked witch I won't melt I don't think I'll be back I think somebody lost a couple of balloons oops yeah and everybody it's Wednesday afternoon December 23rd it's just before 1 30 in the afternoon I've been painting again I started another new painting right here I'm actually using up some craft quality paints and I've taken a bunch of like colors and mixed them together and then I'm going to be using them at least for the base and beginnings of this painting and I and future paintings until I use them up I do like where this is going I'm going to work on a few skyscape inspired paintings I have two of these big square canvases and I have a bunch of smaller ones so I think I want to do a little series um I have some of the paint over there I've used probably about half of what what I found that I needed to purge I'm not sure on the other half that may still end up in a purge box so so stay tuned for that the painting that I just finished yesterday may go downstairs in the game room I don't know we're going to do some rearranging okay here's the question for you all so I have this Ikea car right here that I pull out it's one of those Ikea carts on wheels it's full of the artist paint that I use when I'm painting canvases over here on the easel and then I have a little table right there for the water and things I'm not sure this setup these things and that are the best use of the space what do you all think send me your suggestions my email is down below and if you're on social media with me tag me in a post so kind of looking around for storage solutions I do like painting in front of the window because I like the light I like not having to always turn that light on but I'm just thinking one of those large like tabaret style cabinets with a flat top and lots of drawers might be a better use in this corner and then I wouldn't need to move this all the time yeah so that's what I'm thinking about but they're really expensive so I would want a thrift for something that'll work anyway what do you all think all right I'm going to bring the painting downstairs and do some things I'm working on laundry you know the normal chores and I've got to get the crock pot out because we have to figure out how we're going to cook the big giant pork shoulder for tomorrow so that's a thing all right I'll be back so we're pulling the big guest room together today finally except for this wall which I want to paint one of these colors of light blue but we're rearranging the where are we art library and finished art cubes work to put the tv up here this is the tv that was downstairs we which we never watch so it would be better served to have it up here we also have how many of you are old school enough to recognize this computer system it's not plugged in and I don't know that it ever will be but it is on display it's literally been in storage for decades literally decades I can't believe I can say that but at least 20 years but probably more like 30 so I don't know if it's capable of being plugged in I don't I mean it would probably start a fire to be plugged in I don't know so not without some serious tlc for the moment it's not going to get plugged in but we do have it and it's part and floppy disks and instruction manuals I know right and that giant monitor so it's kind of just a conversation piece I asked for this desk for Christmas so that we would have a space to be able to have it out on display you know it's just it's a fun thing to have right so anyway we're going to get this cube situation straightened out after the husband gets the tv hooked up he's looking for a part that he put away somewhere yeah I don't know where they're we're away places but hopefully we'll find it all right I'll be back okay my hair was in my face so it's not gonna messy ponytail I don't have any problem telling you all this because by the time you see this they'll be back but the kids are out of town and so I need to go check their mail which I almost forgot we've haven't been since Monday so I need to go do that now and then check my own on the way back and I've got to get the crock pot out for tomorrow and hopefully the pork fits in there or we have to cut it up or something and then we're going to go walking then I have to figure out what we're doing for dinner and then we're going to go drive around and do Christmas lights it is going to be a busy afternoon and evening but it's Christmas time so anyway I'll be back yes I have my coat on again so we did go on a walk about two and a half three miles friend yeah about that two and a half miles and we walked down to Panda Express again and got dinner I know I know right it defeats the purpose of going for a walk but anyway we did that and well we were gone and we got a call that Bob's mom heard herself she's in California she's going to be okay we think but yeah that was exciting not fun exciting and you know I don't know what you expect anymore it's 2020 it's the freaking apocalypse so anyway it's kind of home moping and just vegetating on the couch we're going to go drive and see Christmas lights because we are making the best of this Christmas as we can right yeah so we're going to go see Christmas lights we're going to take you with us we'll be back for him but he's like taking his time in the closet he don't want to be on camera yes he's a lot taller than I am he's doing something on our purpose um anyway I just wanted to tell you as as does Bob um Fred Fred aka Fred um wherever you are in the world whatever you celebrate um however you do that despite COVID and all the other challenges we've had this year in 2020 we hope you have a happy one even if it's driving around the neighborhood looking at lights right right have a merry Christmas merry Christmas happy new year happy new year all right what was that for next week well New Year's is next week next week anyway whatever it is whatever happy Hanukkah happy Kwanzaa whatever it is have a happy one happy holiday happy holiday all right we're gonna go sit and have some maybe some tea oh grass wine I'll have tea he'll have wine all right I'll be back everybody happy Christmas Eve it's just before 10 a.m on Thursday December 24th I almost forgot what day the week it is I don't know can you see all that frosty stuff on the roofs outside it looks like it's starting to melt a little bit but not a whole lot so and it's colder than it's supposed to be right now so I don't still don't think we're gonna get any snow but you never know um update on my mother-in-law she is doing okay but because of her age and the type of fall she's at the hospital and we're waiting waiting to get some reports back but yeah we'll see anyway we've got a giant pork shoulder in the oven the whole house already smells like pork it's only been in the oven for about an hour and boy does that smell good anyway we are going to just hang out at home and work on dinner and wait for phone calls and yeah we still have to tell the daughter her grandmother fell so I'm waiting for more information before we do that so anyway I'll be back to scare Bambi away but I guess I did anyways she was over here eating lunch I'm sure she hasn't gone very far she's been hanging out all morning waiting for us to put corn out which we did and apples anyway it's been quite the 24 hours um as I said earlier Bob's mom um fell yeah I don't know if I said exactly what happened she fell at her house yesterday last night she broke her hip she's as we speak having surgery uh she's 92 years old and she has just recovered from COVID so she is one tough woman I have all confidence she can make it through this but some prayers for a good speedy recovery are most welcome please and yeah holy cow it's 2020 over yet because yeah I've had enough of this year I don't know about you all I would say good morning but it's like 2 30 in the afternoon so that won't work but Merry Christmas everybody or happy holidays if you don't celebrate Christmas we are home alone today just the two of us we did Christmas presents this morning and that was a lot of fun got a lot of things we both wanted pretty much everything on our list which is great doesn't happen every year but love that um if you see are seeing this clip you also saw a clip of me having a zoom Christmas uh with my family and Bob was on we were on two different couches with two different iPads that was interesting but anyway um we're going for a walk now it's a little bit drizzly but not too bad and try to get some steps in after overeating too much last night with Jenny and Brian and drinking too much and all the things so we're going to go get some exercise I've already done today's journal pages and uh daily doodle and all the things so yeah let's go get some steps in and see what we can see I'll be back earlier out walking we walked by the king city community park which we do a lot and they have a free library book box thing um in at the edge of the park which we always stop and look out and every now and then I see something um that I can take or I will sometimes go thrifting and buy a bunch of kids books and go on purpose to go leave in the box this time I found a little bag of all of these sticker flakes and these are some cute yeah these are cute I'll be using these in my journals on the covers of my journals all over the place so glad I found them can't do that right now but yeah so um I love it I can't believe no there's an antique shop near here that sells some things like this they're expensive they're as much as three dollars a piece look how many I found yeah so happy yay Merry Christmas to me all right I'll be back people it is Friday uh Friday yeah yeah it's Saturday uh it's the year of Mondays I don't know what day it is it's Saturday morning 10 28 uh 10 29 a.m December 26th the day after Christmas we are getting ready to go run a few errands and take some donations and um I just got done sorting them in the back of the car and sorting some trash and that sort of thing as one does post Christmas um so anyway the kitchen's pretty much cleaned up um all right I adopted kids uh brought us some flowers um which are beautiful I do think I'm gonna pluck some of them out later this afternoon and press them in a book I know because they're just they're pretty they'd be pretty on the journal page so anyway um yeah I've gotta go check on the PO box I've got to take the donations in we need a couple of groceries um like normal food not sweets or cake and uh stuff like that so we're gonna go get all that done and take you with us as we can and I'll be back so I will say welcome to a typical day in Oregon it's cloudy and rainy and yet obnoxiously sunny to where you need your sunglasses all at the same time yeah welcome to our world it is raining out it is 9 30 or something I don't know Saturday the 26th of December I don't know I just finished my daily drawing um journal page thing and doing all the posts on social media for the evening so thought I'd come upstairs and close the vlog um computers finally off for the day and that sort of thing we went to Ikea today as you all probably know because I've probably already said uh first time in about a year I think I have ordered some things from there during the pandemic which takes so long took two and a half months to get where's it a pegboard for the wall back there um um it was a crazy amount of time anyway um it wasn't very people-y not like a normal Ikea day Saturday um it wasn't wasn't too bad they had a queue a line so you had to be six feet apart there were marks all over the ground the registers are all cordoned off with plastic and cheating and everybody's in PPE and the surprising yeah not surprising thing is the lack of inventory and the supply chain issues are having because me of course I'm chatty caffeine so I'm talking to people and looking for things and they're just not getting the supplies and the shipments that they were getting because of the pandemic because um international shipping issues and all of the things for the things because of the year of Mondays so anyway yeah you know what are you going to do anyway it's been quite a week it's been an interesting Christmas that's for sure my mother-in-law um for those um if you've watched it this far then you know she got hurt um at christmas time and she ended up having surgery but she's recovering nicely she is 92 and she's a tough old lady and um she's very annoyed because she's not in control basically so that means she's doing just fine Betty we wish you well so all of you send your good thoughts and energy out to her I know she could use it she's 92 years old so you know it's never fun to matter your age to have to be in the hospital and get surgery and but especially when you're 92 and at christmas time right anyway so it's been a fun one so you're over yet holy crap anyway um I hope you and yours had a happy holiday whatever holiday you celebrate and that we try to go forward in kindness kindness I'm thinking about others more than ourselves I think right now in this time of the pandemic we need to do some of that because I think we're all forgetting about that anyway personal opinion you don't have to agree with me and that's okay um please if you can support the free content here on youtube and in the facebook art groups not just mine yes if you want to support mine I appreciate that there's lots of ways to do it look at the video description there's patreon youtube membership and all of you can shop in my auntie's shop there's a link to you list of links down below it'll when you click on it it'll give you my instagram link if you want to follow me over there and like all kinds of stuff but if you have have a favorite content creator a favorite artist that you follow in either youtube um or facebook um I know they would appreciate your support if you can't figure out how to do that because there's nothing in their video descriptions ask them maybe they've got an online shop maybe they've got a patreon something ask I would appreciate if you do that to somebody yeah all right stay safe stay healthy stay creative please wear a mask and go out and do something nice for yourself because you deserve it I'll see you next week bye guys


brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and strangers, welcome to your favorite show and my favorite show, hashtag LNT, as you can read behind me, Ramadan. Ramadan is here, so tomorrow we're fasting, so tomorrow we can eat and drink during the day. We can only drink water within these two hours that we have and then go back to fasting. So Ramadan Mubarak to everyone watching us tonight and I would like to say that I care a lot about you guys, I love you guys, I love the show as well, that's why we're in episode 31 but for tonight, Ramadan, first night inshallah we're going live from the holy city of Karbala. Every night, just to throw that out, every night in Ramadan we're live, so starting by tonight inshallah every night we're going live, so be prepared for 30 nights of some amazing topics hand picked by the co-producer, by the think tech of hashtag LNT and of course I have to put my own input in that, so you have to guys, you guys have to wait and see what the topics are but until then let's go jump in and let the guys in the control room take us to what's trending in just a few seconds. Welcome back dear viewers, once again Aide Mubarak, wow we're already in Aide, no no no Ramadan Mubarak, thanks to whoever did that right there behind me and the Crescent, if you guys didn't know what this is, it's a Crescent and that's an R-A-M-A-D-A-N the last letter is N by the way, it's not like a upside down V, but anyways so Ramadan Azeem, okay, all right so from now on they're telling me that it's from now on they're telling me it's Ramadan Azeem, this one or this one, all right now we're kicking off with what's trending now, if you guys didn't know the London skyline is becoming the subject of the world's first gigapixel picture, gigapixel not megapixel that's history now, so when you take out your iPhone Xs, your Xs, your S9s, Galaxy S9s and your whatever and you try to take a picture in megapixels that's all that's history, they're taking a gigapixel picture which made history, so this was a cooperation with with a few companies Visualize, London based VR, N360 company, Lens Store, the Contact Lens company as well, now this is crazy, they had to get the new motion technology to maneuver their Nikon D850 to get that picture, so it's two camera men, that's all it took, two camera men taking 260 pictures per hour for 24 hours, so quick maps 260 times 24, so in one day in 24 hours they took 6,240 pictures, imagine that, now that was for the first thing that was what's trending, now we have another quick thing for you guys with what's trending since we're kicking off Ramadan, we got to kick it off right now, so let's go and check out with what's trending, this hit the world like it's it's crazy, it's trending so hard right now, you guys don't imagine, let's go and watch it, you guys read right, a huge announcement alert, your favorite show is only getting better and better, this Ramadan enjoy new trending topics of hashtag LNT daily of course with the one and only, that means 30 nights of live shows at 2am Karbala time, so do stay tuned for new segments of fun and excitement and we're not stopping there, no no no no, would you like a free trip to Karbala on this airplane right here, all you have to do is join us into the show and you'll name you place in a draw, all the participants you participate by calling, texting, instagram, facebook, all of you guys will place in a draw and from that draw a person will win a free trip on this plane to come to Karbala free of charge on our house, so join the family of hashtag LNT and celebrate Ramadan with us, who doesn't want to, it's filled with fun, you guys heard that right free trip to Karbala, who doesn't want a free trip, a free vacation to Karbala, all you guys have to do is tune into the show and participate, how you can participate I will mention in a few minutes how you guys can earn and get a halal trip to Karbala, you don't have to you know rob a bank or nothing, you just have to you know watch LNT and join us all 30 nights of Ramadan, now we're trying to kick it off tonight and first we did wish everyone a Ramadan, a blessed for everyone, inshallah it's a month of mercy and blessings to all you guys, so we can you know increase them Hassanats and remove and clear the sins and you know increase the deeds and inshallah learn to become better human beings but to all those who don't know what Ramadan is now Ramadan to go back to the simple history back to basics as sheikh Yahya has now Ramadan if we're going back to simple basics Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and basically it's a month where Muslims globally known and are globally observed by Muslims to fast and commemorate the first days which the Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad according to Islamic beliefs now this annual observance is regarded as one of the 10 branches of Islam so meaning that the this month aka Ramadan lasts for 29 or 30 days how can you dictate one is 29 and when it's 30 all you have to do is stand on your balcony go like this like someone does and watch if the crescent appears with the crescent appeared right here that's it right there so we announced that Ramadan is tomorrow but you don't have to do that you know the scholars have depending on who you follow you go back to your scholar and they tell you how you guys or when or how long should you guys fast for now fasting is something that catches the attention of many especially in the west I mean I remember when I was going to school and when it was lunchtime I would just sit there with no food in front of me and that's surprising because I love eating but you know there was no food in front of me so my friends they would ask me aren't you hungry aren't you thirsty why isn't any food in front of you so I would just sit there like a really innocent child like a little angel and I would say you know what God has prescribed this to be a very holy month where we have to fast and also get the benefits mentally and physically as well so I just had to sit there like a little angel and explain this to them and and we'll try to explain more inshallah what are the benefits of Ramadan later on in the show now that being said you know we thought of kicking off Ramadan the first episode of Ramadan we thought to kick it off with a very simple and nice question for you guys to answer and don't forget the same thing I said in the promo whoever calls texts sends a video a message a comment on facebook their name will be placed on the draw but let's see the question first they can participate why do you fast why do you fast let me know and let the entire world know why you guys fast now how you can do that is basically dialing the number is plus nine six four seven seven four zero six seven eighteen thirty six I'm letting the entire world know why you should fast and your participation will get you a free trip to Karbala or I Ahmed Ali the one and only well tomorrow inshallah we'll have a a raffle box right here where you can pick out the names or write the names and drop them in there we I will personally write the participant's name everyone that participates I'll write their name and drop it in that box and then at the end of Ramadan inshallah we will choose a name to to come to Karbala free on our house and then other giveaways as well so don't be scared if you don't know you will win there's a lot of prizes coming in on Ramadan so you guys have to tune in and watch but you can also join us live on facebook and if you comment there your name your name will also be dropped in that raffle box as well now let's take a very short break because I talked a lot and in a few hours I have to fast and if I talk a lot you get thirsty so I don't want to talk a lot let's go so it's very short break go back very short so let's do that welcome back dear viewers I hope you inshallah are having a great night tomorrow is Ramadan so tomorrow you're gonna have to fast I feel bad for the guys living in London in the UK they have to fast for a long time and I know it's it's hot over there it's like Iraq here right now you know it's it's 35 degrees 32 33 degrees in in the UK that's that's crazy that's crazy hot but you know hopefully they can you know we can we can you know be inshallah dirty and fast as well here over here we fast usually from 3 30 until 7 p.m. 3 30 a.m. to 7 p.m. so that's that's pretty long as well but Ramadan is undoubtedly one of the most profound global spiritual experiences in the world you won't find a more profound spiritual experience than Ramadan why because there are many benefits to it and only God knows all the benefits to this month now the following I will mention a few points a few reasons why Ramadan can be so beneficial to you and this you can actually relate it to yourself and you can call in to the show and let us know we are getting a few a few Facebook comments which will pop up inshallah very soon but why is Ramadan or what are the reasons that Ramadan has so many benefits to it so many blessings and so many mercies to it we'll get to mention a few later on now actually just right now I'll mention some number one is the spiritual purification now one of the primary benefits of fasting in Ramadan especially you know you you you might fast in other days like blessed days like the the ideal be or the days of whiteness or I don't know how you translate that but fasting in Ramadan is very beneficial because it purifies the mind the body and the spirit at the same time leading to greater clarity sensitivity and health aka baptism so you're basically baptizing yourself with actually not soaking yourself in water but you're still baptizing your your your mind your body and everything to get ready for that spiritual journey that you take through Ramadan reason number two why Ramadan is so beneficial is health and you know when I talk about health you know which I'm working on I'm kidding you know in Ramadan when when you're trying to be healthy check this out closed down it slows down the engine process and so on and so forth now scientifically speaking science has documented and demonstrated that one of the most effective fast that one of the most effective factors in improving human health is the reduction of intake and consumption so what's what this basically means is that during Ramadan your digestive system the engine of the body so to speak is it's taking a rest from the usual consumption and and and the intake that that is taking in and it's allowing it to normally process the foods get rid of get rid of the toxins in your body the the extra waste in your body very slowly so there's nothing pushing down on the stomach and pushing down on the digestive system that's why after subhanAllah that's why as soon as you break your fast you eat something very simple and right away you feel full because your digestive system is working properly and and also it's a way of healing the tissues and letting them repair as well now reason number three is family and community now family and community as as you can see that family right there they're all sitting together and you know to break the fast and they look happy Ramadan brings everyone together if you're from the Middle East or basically if you're Muslim during Ramadan you're gonna see families coming or inviting you you're inviting you're inviting your family your friends and the community everyone just comes together under Ramadan and and checking out each other's you know life seeing what's good in their life what happened oh you got a new a newborn or you got this car you got this house so you kind of show off as well when you put out the fancy food as well now that's very important as well because you get to bring everyone together in your house so it just breaks that boundary that people have brings friends together brings family of course and it brings them community together because you know when I was in Canada we had the Islamic Center where every Saturday every Friday and Saturday they had a meal everyone gathered at the Islamic Center and there was an afar for everyone that came to the mosque anyways we'll go to ask the public and also if you do send us your video of your opinion on the topic as well it will be added to the public opinion and also your name will be jotted down placed in that imaginary box right now tomorrow we're actually gonna have physically but tonight it's it's it's it's imaginary right now so I'm I'm gonna write down the names and drop them in there so let's go to ask the public and come back very short alaykum so you asked me why do we fast on Ramadan for me obviously one God says you have to um but secondly for me like personally it really brings life to how some people suffer in the world it makes you realize how much you eat excessively that you don't actually need to eat like a lot of us we you know don't look forward to Ramadan because you're like oh my god how am I not gonna eat all day how do I do it every year but in reality when it comes around to it you know we do all right and it really makes us realize how much we waste and all of this kind of stuff so for me that's one of the reasons why I you know kind of enjoy actually fasting during the month of Ramadan thank you very much now Shahbaz's name is is going I'm I'm gonna write that down right now with my imaginary pen and imaginary paper right now I'm kidding I'm kidding all the names will be placed in this box that will be here tomorrow inshallah and Facebook comments as well we are getting a few Facebook comments um now um Shabnam Mawani Fazal uh he says aslamu ala mubarak to all of you guys Ramadan Mubarak to all everyone watching us as well and to you as well of course now uh Saqib Ali he says um he says we do fast to refrain from sin to worship Allah in the best way fast fasting forces us to think about the needy and the poor people around the world and provide us the opportunity to help them thank you very much uh Saqib Ali uh for telling us why should you fast and this is this is a very valid reason as well why you should fast because you think of the needy people as we get to talk about leader one as well um now um momina ali she also says aslam I fast to cleanse my soul and ask for forgiveness I fast for the sake of Allah it reminds us of those who struggle every day to find food and water thank you very much um momina Ali for for letting us know uh as well now Musa Ali Al Karbala he says uh we do the fast uh to just feel uh the poor but to get rid of our sins and to purify our spirit and fasting doesn't only stop this only stop you from eating or drinking but also our eyes and ears and minds also have to fast from the sins and it's very very healthy thank you very much Musa Ali and all of their names will be placed in the draw now one thing to point out uh the the names in the facebook are only the ones who will be written down um so if you want your exact name um so and also during the live show as well not after the show you can go on comment during the live show if you give the the names of the accounts they will be added to the draw if that name right there isn't your exact name do message us um or we'll message you to get your full name so we can put it in the draw as well now before the facebook comments we are getting a few more we'll get to read them out later on as well um but um I don't know why you guys aren't calling maybe you guys are hesitant uh thinking that we actually won't come through on on the deal don't know we'll come through and when I say we'll come through Ahmed Ali is saying we'll come through so you guys all you got to do pick up the phone and dial the number shown right there at the bottom and give us a call and tell us why do you fast now before the break we were talking about a few regions uh why Ramadan is so beneficial we got to uh reason number four before that we were talking about family community number four is empathy and compassion a lot of the people that commented and Shahbaz as well they told us um that one of the reasons why um Ramadan is so important is that um there's empathy and compassion involved with it you think of the people around you um that really don't have that much to eat um that uh it's it's not everyone has the same opportunity as we do we're so spoiled in this world um that whatever we want we get um if we think that uh that our um that our phone is is it is working it's working okay uh but if it's if it's bad or if it has like a small scratch on it we go and change it not thinking of those or if we eat excessively not thinking of those who don't have food who don't have shelter yet we're so fortunate and spoiled so it just gives us a time to be uh compassionate towards those who don't have now reason number five as why we should fast or what's the benefits of Ramadan is restraint and self-discipline and this is very true as well because if during the month of Ramadan um I actually heard this from a lot of friends and I sometimes I feel this as well in Ramadan um you get to be a little bit ill-tempered um you get mad very easily because you're not having any water you're not having any food um you're you're you're angry you're pissed off because you don't have anything to eat um or or you know if you're addicted to cigarettes or if you're addicted to anything you can't have that during Ramadan so there's a bit of anger of anguish just to go and do that thing um so that discipline really teaches you and it psychologically speaking it grows your personality because you're able uh you're more able or more capable of handling your inner self you're disciplining your physical your mental and your inner self as well your spiritual side uh as well that's number five number six um is focus now honestly this can also be a psychological perspective as well as well later on we'll get to ask the expert we don't want to spoil anything but um later on after these uh after this one uh we'll get to ask the expert of what they think now focus now in this world and with the common demand of modern life uh it's too easy to become lost um and forget who we are to unconsciously forget our divine purpose and destiny in this life uh because we were put on this planet for a reason whether you believe in god or you don't what are the main reasons and even if you don't believe in a god the main reason is to look at the near future what do you want to accomplish what do you want to do give back to the community that's your purpose your goal is your purpose so that's one of the main reasons we should be focused in Ramadan focused as you know every year that there's a new year resolution um your new year resolution should be in the Ramadan where you know what after aid or this day the first day of Ramadan I won't do the things that I did before a checklist start checking off the things that the negative things about you start checking them off and saying that you know what from this day on these won't happen again inshallah I should start from myself I actually have to get a checklist but now let's ask the expert tonight we have a very special expert joining us tonight sister Barak Hussein a psychotherapist from Ottawa Canada telling us the psychological aspect behind why do we fast to that Salamu alaikum this is sister Barak Hussein registered psychotherapist also known as the Muslim counselor I'd like to wish you and your families a beautiful holy month coming up during the blessed month of Ramadan and we all know the benefits of fasting whether it's a personal connection to God strengthening our spirituality helping those that are in need connecting with our families with our communities mashallah there's so many amazing benefits for this holy month and an interesting one is of course the psychological benefits of fasting and this is something that we have seen in recent research where they look at you know self restraint self discipline and these are things that we know during the month of fasting that for example we try to abstain from food from water and other everyday pleasures because this is what is prescribed to us in the holy Quran the benefits behind that psychologically are incredible so for example for those of us who are trying to get rid of a bad habit such as smoking this is a perfect opportunity to actually work on that research has shown that it takes around two to three weeks around 21 days to develop a good or bad habit so during this month you can work on something that you want to get rid of so daily you can work on it so smoking for example you have to abstain from smoking during your fasting time although I see a lot of people right at the end of their fast they break their fast with a cigarette you know kind of defeats the purpose of it however if you put your mind to it and this is a habit that you'd like to break this is an incredible opportunity for you to work on that there could be also other things as well for example cleaning up your diet purifying toxins getting rid of toxins within your body so a lot of people tend to get rid of good habits also during Ramadan for example going to the gym or working out and I encourage people know you can still do that don't stop working out just because you're abstaining from eating and drinking water throughout the day in fact it's a wonderful opportunity to again develop restraint and routine and toning up yourself really and people think oh I'm going to lose weight some people say oh I gained weight during Ramadan psychologically though if you put it in your mind you know I'm going to create this part of my daily routine I'm going to go to the gym let's say before if thought time after preparing everything um or going let's say a little bit after if thought it's also what kind of food are you going to be putting into your body during this month that could also help with your consciousness your awareness you know research has shown that a lot of people tend to be more focused during their fasting time which is great I find I tend to be more focused as well I'm not distracted by oh I'm hungry or I need to go to the washroom so it gives it a good opportunity to develop that routine of self-discipline and restraint right and self-control again we talked about emphasizing with the poor and the hungry it gives you an opportunity to really reflect as well and be grateful being mindful being mindful and aware of the goodness that we have in our lives and being mindful of aware of the things that other people don't have an opportunity for us to give from ourselves and help and this is what it what it's all about in terms of that sense of community and giving back there's so many groups out there people who work together to help other communities but also communities of different faiths as well to show how Muslims can work together so psychologically this has a huge impact on the individual as well as families when they you know prepare the fast or rather breaking the fast together preparing the meals together working together there's a sense of community and love and that dynamic and also when we attend the masjid or the sanias or the centers and have community of stars and have du'as together there's that sense of building of community and that we want to carry over for the rest of the year so during this blessed month yes we know what the Qur'an has taught us we know what the hadith taught us you know encourage you to look at it from another perspective add it on to that you know whether it's changing your diet or you know developing closeness to Allah swt or developing that spirituality that connectedness within the community being mindful and grateful creating good habits getting rid of bad habits finding that inner peace and tranquility and also working on that self the nefs because it's during this month that we really have to struggle with that nefs where you're fighting your urges you're finding you're fighting the nefs al-ammara that lower demanding part of yourself that is constantly telling you do this do that so this is an opportunity for you to work with that part of yourself with the self discipline self preservation and again not forgetting your friends and family and community i pray that you have a wonderful month and i hope these little tidbits are helpful for you take care and god bless and please remember us in your du'as on these nights and especially the holy nights of layali al-qadr thank you very much assalamu alaikum and rahmatullahi wabarakatuh back the viewers um uh welcome back and we do thank uh sister burak hussein a psychotherapist registered psychotherapist uh from arwa camera and i don't know does this burak hussein want her name also on the draw uh i don't know send us a message and we'll put your name actually i'm kidding everyone that participates even the experts uh unless you know the grand authority we should put their names as well they could come anytime they want but uh the public the expert everyone their names will be placed in that draw as well we'll finish off with a few facebook comments and then we'll uh say uh peace out now um gala brisa say he says assalamu alaikum fasting is is the one percent uh is not eating and drinking rest 99 is getting closer to allah our chance to recover in this month of ramadan from alipur india now uh fatima zahra mohed from bahrain she says fasting benefits our health and gets us more closer to allah the holy month of ramadan is all about allah subhanahu ala uh the rest we will write your names down whoever uh commented during the live show so during the live show last message during the live show whoever comments calls sends a voice message sends us a a text message a video anything their names will be placed in the draw to win a free trip to karbala and other amazing giveaways and prizes don't forget to tune every night and share the promo on facebook don't forget to do that and let everyone have the chance of coming to karbala don't be selfish ramadan is all about giving you know not about taking in i like to give that's why i'm giving to you guys the opportunity come to karbala anyways it's been an honor first night of ramadan amazing night thank you very much for all those who joined us was salamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh thread right a huge announcement alert your favorite show is only getting better and better this ramadan enjoying new trending topics of hashtag lnt daily of course with the one and only that means 30 nights of live shows at 2 am karbala time so do stay tuned for new segments of fun and excitement and we're not stopping there no no no no do you like our free trip to karbala and this