All right. Welcome, everybody. Let's go ahead and get started. So I don't have any announcements for today. So I'm just going to go ahead and turn the introductions over to Professor Pavel Ndolski. Yes. So hello, everyone. So today I welcome Professor Oror Kurtwa from National Autonomous University of Mexico. The seminar today is dedicated to a very interesting topic, physics of the electron ion collider. Now, Oror is an expert on the various aspects of non-potovative quantum chromodynamics. Oror got her PhD in 2009 in the University of Valencia in Spain, and then she had a number of full oppositions at the Pavia, Liège together with Rascati and Mexico Siki, before she came to our side of the Atlantic Ocean, where we initiated a new major project for the electron ion collider, which will study multiple aspects of the three-dimensional structure of the hydrants. So today we'll have a review talk dedicated to this very rapidly developing area. And for those who are interested on Wednesday, we will have a full appreciation at 3 to 5 p.m. in the room 202. So we can discuss further details, especially questions that we may have about the theory that will be discussed. With this, I welcome Oror Kurtwa. Thank you so much. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much. So I will talk about one aspect of DIC, which is a huge program. So I can't cover everything, also because I'm not an expert on everything, but I will talk especially on coagulant correlations. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Wonderful. I think we're all used to the zoom sound now. Okay. Okay. So let me just, that's the first in-person talk in many years. So let's see if I remember how it works. Okay. So I copy this from the EIC web page. And there's this fundamental quest that we have, which basically consists in how can we break down the quest to understand the head unstructure. And if you go on the web page of the EIC, you will see there are many interesting points, like how to coaxing the makeup for the visible matter of the universe, precision 3D imaging of nucleons, solving the proton spin puzzle, the emergence of hydrodynamic mass, coagulant confinement, and all those things. Right. And I will talk just about, well, I will give, I won't talk about everything, but I will give my two cents on some of those topics, but not everything. Okay. And so those that I highlighted here actually can find answers or a partial answer or hints of answers to the study of pattern distribution functions, which I guess here you'll know because you have all this CTECH members. So you must know a lot about PDFs, but I will just review a few things about PDFs. And in particular, the hydron properties I've mentioned before, like the spin, the mass, most of them involve higher twist distributions. And what is really interesting is that those properties are accessible to manifestation of QCD at low energy. Okay. Which means that the hydron structure beyond leading twist, which I will mention, I will explain what it is in a few minutes, is relevant and accessible. So this talk will have those three main points, which will be what are higher twist distribution functions, what information do they encapsulate, and what can be learned from low energy experiment to higher Q square, which as we will see, EIC for us is higher Q square. Okay. It's really high for higher twist. Okay. So this is the picture of the degrees of freedom of the proton. So at low energy, you can consider it as a hydron is the degree of freedom. And as you increase, you increase the resolution, the Q square, you will see more and more inside the proton. And in low energies, you will consider that you have this constituent like quarks, and at high energy, very high energy, you would have all those pairs and gluins. And this is, of course, paired to the behavior of the Afastrong. Okay. And what we would like to study at really low energy, like a Jefferson lab, for example, would be this kind of energies here, mid range energies. And the EIC will discover a bit more. So the idea of that is that you've heard about this EIC, the glute that binds us all. So what is that glute that binds us all? So perhaps part of the answer is actually gluon of low energies. So gluon is radiation high energies, but even lower energy would have gluons coming as the dynamics of QCD. So how can we access that information? There are many observables, but in this talk, I will talk a bit about the squaggle interactions. Okay. So how can we go to the squaggle interactions in PDFs? So that will be PDFs of leading twist. This is the one that everybody knows, the most improvised PDF. Then you have two other PDFs of leading twist, which are the helicity that gives you the spin, and transversity, which gives you something similar to the spin, but in the transverse direction. Okay. And all three are complementary and really interesting. And the most famous one is the employer's PDF. And we know a bit less about helicity and transversity, but they still are leading twist PDFs. Okay. So they are defined on the light cone. So if you take the plus component, and you know that Birken X is the fraction of a momentum that carries the active quarks, and you can relate, you can plug them into observables thanks to fission theorems. And then you know the evolution too. Right. So now if you want to go a bit further in the, in the development, then you would have like on the composition. So you see they have this leading twist here. Let me just show them the PDFs. Okay. So the unpolarized helicity and transversity here, but as you can see, you can have transverse and negative components of the light cone too, which is going to give you twist three that are suppressed like M over P plus where P plus is the direction of the proton, the momentum in the proton. And then you would have twist four. Okay. And all those, those, those guys are suppressed like M over P plus or M square over P plus square. Okay.  Okay. But if you consider lower energies, they will kind of matter. Okay. So just one slide of, of terminology of the, the zoo of, of the submission functions. So I mentioned PDFs. And they are what you call the collinear PDFs, the integrated PDF for whatever you want to call them. And they depend on X, B, and Q squared. Okay. But I will just mention a few things in the talk too about GPDs and TMDs. And so if you want to take this, this image of the proton that just, that goes really fast in one direction, you would have this transverse plane. And then you would, you would see, don't put your eye there, but you would see this image here. And X corresponds to this longitudinal momentum of the proton, of the quark. Okay. But then you want to add dimensions. And if you want to add dimensions, you could have, you could make two ways, or you can combine all those two ways. One way is to add the transverse momentum on the plane, which gives you TMDs. So with 3D. The other way is to go to GPDs when you have a momentum transfer, which gives you like the impact parameter here. Okay. And so GPDs are three-dimensional distributions, just like TMDs, just different representations. Okay. Excuse me. Yes, sorry. TMDs, transverse momentum distribution, and GPDs generalized. But we know that they're not so general, but it's called generalized quantum distribution. Yes. Yes, exactly. So I didn't put the picture here, but if you combine this one and this one, you would have a five-dimension. And yeah, but it's one another, not accessible to experiments yet, but okay. And I don't think I will mention them, but okay. So PDF, the one I'm going to talk about, I mentioned a few things about TMDs and about GPDs. And then of course, if you integrate PDFs over X, you get the charges. And if you integrate GPDs over X, you get form factors, which depend only on the transverse momentum square. And you can complete the cube, but the other ones are just more exotic things. But that's the cube of zero functions. Okay. So let's go back to to Bollinger PDFs. Okay. So still the emperor is helicity and transversity, just to show you here. So that's a plot of X and Q square ranges. So they have some magazine data. And then you would see the IC here, it's shown for helicity and transversity to give you an idea of what will be covered. But what I would like you to see here is that, so that's one. Okay. So there's a cut of one Q square, one here. Okay. And then what you can see that for some experiments, the ratio M over Q is not that small. Okay. So especially you see this range is right. So sometimes what would happen if you when you make your analysis, you would have some contamination coming from M over Q. Or what you can do to you is that you can define some asymmetries to get sensitive to this M over Q term. Right. So there are two ways. So what do I want to say by that is that you can see them as contamination or score your terms like you have here, I guess you're familiar with CJ 15 and they have a lower cut. So they would include more data in that closer to the Q square equal one. And so they have to take into account what they call HG, which is higher twists terms. And here we divide Q square, right. And so they have to feed them to get to get to their feet. They have to take into account those corrections. And so that that's the way you see the impact of higher twists. And also you can see if you only go further, higher twists, as I really explained in this talk, have a lot of physical content. And they can also play a role in duality, for example. But you can also see them as, okay, depending on the function you want to access, you can see that they also have genuine effects. And that really affects is really non perturbative. For example, you know, the analysis by the jam collaboration, they analyze the helicity, which is just this one here. That's this, this set of data here. And then they know they're going to have also a twist tree. And so they fit this function here. And you can see that would be the helicity to get. And then they also have the twist tree function. So there are these two sides. So if you don't have, don't know much, you put them as a as a contamination, and then you try to do something with them. And then you can try to go further as a way we've done with the Vigela with the IC and try to extract them. Okay. So what do I call genuine effects? And that's the interesting part of, so I will talk about, okay, I think I'm mentioning it here. So GT that I mentioned before is the same of the helicity and G2, which is the twist tree part. And so if you analyze from the metric sediment, and you can work out with the equation of motions, you can realize that as a relation of G2 can be reduced to at least two PDF, plus another term. Okay. But if you take this reduction, it's called the van der Waalschek relation. And what we call the van der Waalschek approximation is basically just that part here. So you can, in principle, know part of the twist tree thanks to the twist two PDF. But if you take into account the genuine effects, then you would have the quadruple correlation here in this teardrop term. So the teardrop term is actually the interesting part of G2 from my point of view. Okay. And you can, you can just work out the question of motion today. We'll find that you have the quadruple and quad correlation here. Another aspect too is that since we are on the light cone, there are some very close singularities, so data X. So it's the origin at X equals zero, you will find something like this in some models or and it can also be found to the question of motions. So you would have the same equation as this one here, but in some, some models, you would find the data function for the case of G2, right? And some models, we always have this, the singularity here. So it means that they are what you call this zero mode effects. Okay. So what I want to say here is that we know part of this function, but we don't know the rest. Okay. So how do we know that those other effects are not zero, they are not zero. So the first thing that people have done is said, okay, we work in this approximation here and we just keep the twist to part. So we know G1, we can get G2. And so that's what people have done for a long time. And it could be worked out through experiments actually. And there are some studies, about 10 years ago, a bit more, that suggested that it was not enough. So if you compare the Banzer-Abyshek reduction here, approximation on G1 or G2, you realize that you need something else, right? So this data here, which is the blue curve here, it's non-zero, which suggests that you need the G tilde. So they are actually a quadruple interaction here. So the question was how to access it, right? So the good thing about G2 is that it is accessible to DIS, but here we talk about the DIC. But let me just mention here, JLAB 12, that's triangle here that you can see. So this is something from the yellow report of DIC, that's for polarized DIS data. And this is something for the white paper on signal interaction region for the DIC, which is being written right now. So what you can see is that what is covered from non-experiments would be this region here. So the DIC at a really high center of mass would be in that region. And if you have a lower center of mass, you would cover a slightly lower Q value and slightly larger XI, which would be ideal for higher twos, actually. So you can see here what is expected from this second interaction region, for example. So it's like a smallish Q-square and smallish X, but not too small X. We don't need to be too small in X. And so I will try to discuss the complementarity of this data. Okay, so why are higher twists so important? And what do we know about them now, right? And what do we need to do to know better? Okay, so that's the interesting part. Okay, so higher twists can contain quaggling quag correlations, quag marks term that I've not mentioned before, but they also have a quag because use a question of motion. So you would have a mass term of the quarks, and they can contain this single IOT of this zero mode, if you like. And what is also really interesting is that many properties of the hadrons are related to that. For example, if you take the proton spin, there's a component that comes from the quaggling quark correlations in GPDs. If you take the proton mass, there's a single IOT in the scalar PDF. And beyond that, there are this discussion about universality of PDFs, especially when we talk about sievers and choose the man-effects. So this is TMD and this is more complex, but there's a lot of discussion about that. Let's keep it simple for today, okay? So proton spin, quaggling quark correlation. So a few years ago, there was a discussion about the orbital angular momentum, and there are two definitions, right? So you want to understand which is the spin of the quarks, the contribution from the gluon, and the OAM, right? And as you can see, these fingers, there was always part of the pie that was in disagreement with everybody, right? And so this JM is for Jaffe Manohar, and it was shown that this piece of the pie is nothing else than quaggling quark correlation in GPDs. So it means it's higher twist. And this, why is it so helpful is that we can now try to fix observables. What would be the observables to understand that, right? So we know what is here, right? But that's interesting. But now the discussion moved to the proton mass.  And so what is the thing about the proton mass? But that's kind of a propaganda. Of course, the terms are kind of, you know, take it like just as a sum, okay? So if you take the Higgs mechanism, you expect to have, that's why we always say that the current quark mass at a given scale, I think that's about 2GV, don't make up for all the mass that we expected in the proton. So the mass of the proton is means that 99% comes from QCD, right? And how that's a big thing, we don't really know, but the question now is, how can you decompose it? So you have a big question, how do you generate that mass? And you make it like a slightly easier question, how can I compose the mass, right? And that's how we decompose the mass. There are also two different masses, the composition, there's the G and the Lose one. And so you would have like about 1GV here and you decompose it to mass of the quark, mass of, sorry, the trace anomaly, and the energy of quarks and glues, okay? And so just to make it a bit more clear, so this energy is related to the moment of the polarized PDFs. And the quark mass is the sigma terms, okay? And this one is, it will be the condensate of glues, okay? So what can we access from experiments that give us answer to that, right? So this, I think you have C-tech can do that, okay? So that's wonderful. The trace anomaly is the one that nobody knows exactly how to get to, but what we also need to get from experiments or from other approaches are the sigma terms. And the sigma terms are what I'm going to talk about now, okay? So you have this mass decomposition. So the sigma terms are just like a condensate of quarks, but between proton states, not of the vacuum, right? So they go on top of that. And so you have the sigma bionucleon, where you have up and down, and you have the strange. And so those have been determined from bionucleon data on the lattice as well, okay? So they're kind of known, but not from experiments. There's no phenomenological here, if you like, but there's a lot of process. But what is interesting here is that they are related to the PDF EFX by some rules. So if you take this PDF, that is the color PDF as shown in the beginning, you will have the sigma terms. Okay, so that's really interesting because that PDF is related to the mass of the proton. Okay, so now I get to that PDF. Remember, I said that you could have this single term or workout term, okay? That would be a data here. You would have the quaggling quaggling interaction. And because I have a mass term, right? So that PDF has everything on three terms. And now the question is that, okay, how can we access this information? So we would like to have all this information and we would like to understand the role of each of the terms, but first to get to the PDF. Okay, so how do we get to the PDF? So this one is skylight. So you cannot use, you cannot access it in the IS, in inclusive the IS, need to go to semi-inclusive the IS. So how do we do that? So once you add, so in semi-inclusive, you will detect say a pion or a pair of pion or chaos or the things. So you would have the PDF or the quaggulator here, but you also have a fragmentation part, right? And so the cross section would be a product of the quagg PDF or TMD, okay? And the fragmentation part. And this allows you to have much more structures because you would have, in that case you have, so the tron is momentum, which is KT, and you would have many things. So if you want to go to higher twist, you can decompose. So usually we'd have this quaggulator here as two PDFs, but you can also have M over P plus times the three PDFs, okay? And same on the top, right? You could also have the same thing for the fragmentation here. But on top of that, it's already included here too, but since those three PDFs contain a quaggulant quagg interaction, you can also have this kind of suppression here. So this Phi A contains the gluer into, right? And so you can work out how to write the mini asymmetries. So you would have the cross sections. You can define angles and asymmetries, and you would have a lot of different asymmetries that will give you access to three PDFs, okay? And actually, they were measured by Hermes and Klass, many of them, and they are not exactly zero, not all of them. Some are not small, and some are, some are not, right? The huge problem with this, this is a team, we need more of a team in the approach. And so the problem with that is that you have many functions. And what happened is that you have so many terms that you did all very intertwined, right? So there was an alternative to that. That was the proposed for the transversity, actually, is to go to semi-inclusive TIS for dihedron, or dihedron, see this if you like. So here you would just add one hadron, but here you would just detect, you would detect pair of pions. So you would have pion pairs here. So that would be the same kind of diagrams. And in that case, the good thing is that you don't have to be in the TMD framework, but you have a binary framework, okay? And that's what has been used for the transversity function as well. And so in that case, you would have symmetries of that type in which you would have three pdf times the two permutation function, and the two pdf times the three permutation function, okay? And that's how we're going to access this scalar pdf. And so the scalar pdf would be in that asymmetry. You can see it here. And I'm going to talk about that. Okay. Okay. So those are the dates, the whole data we have for this scalar pdf. So the funny part is that so class is Jefferson Lab. So this was the last paper of class with six gv, and that was the first paper of class with 12 gv. And as you can see, they are published in the same, yes, in the same issue of BRL. So the funny thing is that it was about the same asymmetry, right? And that was pretty cool. So we got three points from class and 12 points for class 12. So the first thing I want to mention is that only class 12 shows non-zero, clear non-zero twist tree asymmetry where it's not really clear for class. And the shortcomings that there's only one target, which is a proton target. So we can just access this combination of u and g. Okay. Okay. So the great news is that it's not vanishing, but we don't know if it comes from the fragmentation part or from the pdf part. And so we're going to study this slightly. Okay. So we just have this thing. Okay. So how do we access this twist tree pdf? We work out this asymmetry. And so we know that leading twist dihematometrician function that we have here. So this, all its fragments into two pions. We work that out. We know it from other analysis that we had from the transversity part. But then we have to see what you do with this order term. So that would be the unpolarized pdf and a twist tree, turning twist tree fragmentation part. And so there's not much we know about it. This was just one model talking about these kind of things. But there are other asymmetries from compass that help us do so, right? So we work that out. And this is very preliminary. So it's been there for seven years. We've worked the analysis again. And so we make two scenarios. I'm just going to discuss about the results. And that will be the combination of 4u minus ed divided by 9. So that's a combination of balance pdf. And so what I want you to see here is that we have two approximations, two different scenarios. And we just want to know how much is it different from zero? To which confidence level is it different from zero, right? And so you can see that class is not that much. Well, it could be zero. It's compatible with zero. But class 12 is not so much, right? So that's wonderful. So that will be this combination that we have here. So and I just want to mention here that this is a full uncertainty, right? So that will be the 100% of the, we use the bootstrap here technique to get that. It's 100% of the of the error band. So the good news is since that from class 12, we probably have non-zero combination of these effects, right? And that will be wonderful. We're going to finish the analysis pretty soon. But that's pretty good news because we can access this pdf to get information about the mass of the coagulant. But not everything at the same time, right? Okay. So how do we know about universality of non-partumative functions? So there are many things to say here about all this, this framework of dihedron or even TMDs is that first it's all the two leading order, okay? And there are not many, I mean, we talk about global fits. They're not really global fits, right? So this, this fragmentation function, I mean, it started from E plus and minus, and they have the news in series, okay? Analysis, because they see they have to be checked or tested against other data, right? So the only thing we can do so far to check consistency, to check that if you have the data from the variables of dihedron, when reconstructed from the dihedron function, you get something that is really similar, right? And that's what you can see here. So if I get the data and I reconstruct the symmetry from, from my fragmentation functions that we get from E plus and minus, we get pretty consistent, okay? And so about twist two and twist two and twist three pdfs. So if we talk about twist two, transversity is the one that we need to access to cities as well, because it's a chiroload pdf. And so this is, there are a few studies about the universality of those pdf, the same pp and in cities. And but it's still the global analysis of transversity has been done from the Bavia group and jump collaboration. And so now what about twist three pdfs are the universal? Oh, well, this is to be answered. So we don't know yet. And we hope that the Vdic we can have an answer. But there are examples to this TMD and what we call dynamic artist relations. And what's this code is the severs function is related to the choose them and function. So what is the goal of this extraction? And why is it going to be important form for the IC? So that's jail of analysis, completely class analysis. So the first question is our genuine twist three affects non zero. And I think we would say yes, up to a certain confidence level, and perhaps more for GT than for this effects. Okay. But can we access quaggle and quaggle relations, or the non perturbative information from those three is tree. So let's take this example of, of the effects. So that would be the combined and I combined the two things that are here. I combined them. Okay, that gives me this shared area. And so the question and that's part of the propaganda of the IC actually, is that some non perturbative effects are expected to actually in the smallish x region. Okay, and this is a sketch. Okay, a sketch. This is not real. Okay. And so I said it was a master. And I also said that it was a data function. So if I take a smear data function here, so look a zero must be here, right? It's not zero expect to have a delta function and the master here multiplied by the empire as PDF here. And so what we expect is that the small x region, which is not really just tiny x region is small, like about 10 to the minus two should give us some, some information about it's non perturbative effects. So is it really true? I wanted to insist that it's just a schematic model here to illustrate why we need the DIC because at the end what we matter are the moments because those guys will give us moments. And when you have the moments, you need the whole range in x, right? And of course, the small x kind of play a huge role in the moment, right? And okay, there was an extraction in the TMD framework years ago. And this is all compatible with that. Okay. So let's go about the DIC coverage. So this is the size of the asymmetries, as you can see. And so that's for the yellow report. So we made these projections. Since there's no fit for this EFX, we use models to extreme models, one from light cone quark model, another one where I just used the same thing as here, we used the master. Okay, then we put a huge master because we are low energy, it's low Q square. In principle, we're allowed to use a mechanical mass here, but constituent mass, about 300 MB. Okay. And so you can see that for different configuration of the beams, that will be the lowest one, slightly higher ones. And then we didn't do it for the rest because it was just nothing to see. And you can see that you can have about 1% to 1.5% asymmetries for this configuration here. So they are non-negotiable, but are really small. And so that's the archetype of observables for this second interaction region of the IC. So what is the second interaction of the region of the IC? So that would be a plot, not really formal plot about the coverage here. Okay. So I understand that all these light-scattered plots are not really observable. You should just focus on the really dense part of the plot. So that's JALAP-12 that I just talked about. That will be perhaps JALAP-24. But yeah, you see this slowest configuration here will give us access to this region. And then when you go to higher ones, then it's wonderful for other things, right? But not for higher twists. And so the idea is to cover this range here that would correspond to a lower center of mass to complement what is going to be accessed with this configuration here. So that's what is proposed here. It's going to be a higher limit to lower center of mass. And why is it so important? Because I haven't mentioned in this talk at all the Q-square evolution. And of course, it will matter, right? It will matter for the spin observables, for the mass observables, the mass will run, the spin moment will also run, all those PDFs will run. But that's something you have to study. And that would be perfect because we just need some span in Q-square that we didn't have a JALAP, for example. And so that would be wonderful to have a span of Q-square that is not too high, not too much, but enough to start for these three PDFs. So in most cases, we know the equation for the three parts. So you know the quadriline quark, then you know how it evolves for the collinear ones. So for some team these two. And why is it going to be helpful is that, as I said, there are different parts of the PDFs, three different contributions. And evolution is going to help us disentangle and understanding each of them, right? And I understand that this is especially hard for TMD studies when they're going to have more effects to study. Okay. But this Q-square is going to require this interaction region, second definition of the IDIC here. Because as you've seen for the first study, we had some symmetries, but they're pretty small. So yeah. Okay. So talking about this multipart on distribution IDIC, so why is it so important? And I just want to say it again. So there's going to be a larger range, not so large, but large enough for us, a large range of Q-square value, and small ish, but not too small x regions. So that's complementary to what we had from fixed target experiments like Hermes and Klaas. And also there's going to be a sandbox for vectorization and evolution studies. So the golden channel here will be fully inclusive with access to GT. So those are the predictions from Jam. Let's take them from the yellow report. Okay. So there will be a, we would have proton and neutron. So we need both to have a separation, of course. And that's we, so Jam give us for now this yellow band. Okay. And that it looks like it's cut, but it means that this is only accessible with the IDIC. That's what they have now, and this is accessible with the IDIC, right? And you see how they're going to extend the analysis and all the plan to have more statistics in the analysis for GT. And the silver channel is actually semi-inclusive the IS today headroom, and perhaps two single headroom too, to access the HEAVX, right? And so the two chosen channels are collinear observables. They are not T and Ds, but they are a plethora of interesting T and Ds, GPDs, and all the things that the Hayatris do. And there was this on the sub working group on on the Hayatris of the IC. Okay. So I just want to mention, Twistree, HEAVX Scholar, Twistree in Mexico. So Salvador, I hope it is connected. And he's another grad student. I said yes. Angel Miramontes is a postdoc in Michoacán. Okay. And so, so Angel is doing the analysis of this EFX with me. And so I'm always doing the calculations in the back model. Okay. And so now one of the big points and one of the reasons why I'm here is that I can be the Twistree with Fantomas. So I guess some of you have heard about Fantomas. So Fantomas is a project between Unam and SMU here. You can see you can fly from one to the other really fast with the car. And so Fantomas has been developed with the students somewhere here. Barada is here. Downline. Look at this online, Ryan. Max is not going to, Maxis is not connected. And Paraná is getting myself. And it's, it's going to help us so not that we can extract this point by point EFX, try to parametrize this function and to get the most of it to a study of a functional form, right? So that's going to be a wonderful project. It's going to be used for other things too. That's how to study functional forms from a non-biased point of view, right? And perhaps we could use Fantomas to, to understand better Twistree PDFs. Okay. Let me go to the conclusions. Okay. So we have discussed the role of higher twist distribution to understand the Hadron structure. And there was a huge list from the EIC wish list. I say it's a wish list, but I really hope we can go through it one day. And they contribute, for example, to precision to the magic of nuclear emissions of Hadronic mass. That's really important. I think the mass of the proton is a really, really important thing. And as well as the proton speed puzzle, right? And, and of course, higher twist distributions can unveil aspects of Hadron dynamics. That's a non-partibutive picture. And we still have to bridge this non-partibutive picture with the perturbative picture, of course. And they are accessible for experiments that they still require more statistics and more analysis from the theory and the phenomenology point of view, right? And something that I did not mention, but it's, it's there. It's wonderful is that there are also efforts on the lattice community to get to, to charges, to quasi PDFs, to PDFs. And they actually are really interested in those functions too. So that will be great to, to combine the efforts with the lattice. Thank you. And this is where we're going to hit the limitation. Sure. Sure. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. All right. So just to check, can somebody, maybe Lucas will pick on Lucas. Lucas, can you hear us online? Yes, I can hear you. Okay. So, so thank you very much at all. And this is a very informative presentation. And now we have time for questions. And we'll be okay if I have a quick question just to follow up right away. So there are two important physics questions that you mentioned. So the, well, we studied the proton and so there are two puzzles, how the mass of the proton is formed and how the spin of the proton is formed. And you mentioned this twist country contributions contribute to both. So what's the fraction of the contribution from this country? Well, hard terms you expect for the proton mass, in addition to the Higgs mechanism that gives you only 10 maybe very small fraction of the total mass, but also for the proton spin. Okay. So do you hear me? Lucas, can you confirm that you hear me? Yes, I can hear you as well. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Lucas. Yes. Okay. So from the proton mass, so all those masses will run. So there was always some up to, to, to give the mass of the proton that they will run. But it's about 10% from the sigma terms, which doesn't seem to be much, but we need the sigma terms to understand the other contributions as well. And from, from the spin. Yes, that's a good question. So I don't, I don't remember. I don't think it's, it's a lot. And I'm not sure their study is actually because it comes from three GPDs. It's, it's all dependent on, on, on the feeds of GPDs. So maybe I estimate some models, but I'm not sure. But is it correct? So basically this, this GPDs will contribute to the orbital angular momentum. Yes. What, what is the fraction of the proton spin that comes from not, not from the spins of the quarks, but from the orbital angular momentum? Well, it depends on, on the gluon, on the spin of the gluon. So there will be the speed, the, so the, you know, the speed of the quarks is not too much. And the speed of the gluon. So all those accessed as well to, to, to PDFs. So the helicity PDFs. And depending on which, if you use DSSV and NPDF or JAM, you will have a different answer. So depending on what you have for the, for the, the gluon contribution to the spin, the leftover is all OAM, OAM. By like 50% maybe. And I think a bit less. Yes. Okay. Okay. Let me give the mic, mic for Fred. Yeah. Thank you again for the overview. So, you know, for hard twist things, again, coming from PDF side, usually, you know, they're off in the corner and we cut on those hard so we can ignore those. But it looks like, I mean, if I saw in the slides, it looks like, for example, in the EIC, you're going to have a pretty good range over X that you can really probe that. Is that right? Could you come and make sure I understood that right? Yeah, that's the idea. So we'd have you see the plot. Okay. So this is, I'm not sure it's just for higher twist. That's, I think that's a general plot that has been made on, I don't know exactly which context, right? So, so, so yes. So the idea is to have X coverage and also Q square coverage because as you can see here, the X coverage for, so JLAB was pretty nice. So it was almost balanced region, but it was really low Q square, right? So you can still have contamination from other things, right? So the, the idea is to, to get something a bit higher. So you will be smaller hex, like 10 to the minus two, something like that, which is not bad. And, and slightly better range in Q square, which means we're going to have to take into account version effects, which will be great. So it requires still a lot of development from outside. I think GT has it. So, yeah. Okay. Any questions, Steve? Yeah, okay. So I wanted to talk a little bit about this interaction region dependence. So just out of curiosity, how recently has, is this particular plot showing what the EIC beam accelerator division thinks they can accomplish at the two IRs? How recently was that generated? Do you know? So I took it from, from the white paper that we are writing right now. So right now. Okay. So that's pretty recent. So they've been workshops. There was a workshop the last March, I think. So you can find those plots from some, some talks in last March. Yeah. And I think there are other talks from the Jefferson lab, but it is like in progress. I understand. Yeah. No, and that makes sense. I mean, the reason I was asking was I wanted to make sure it wasn't too out of date, because I know that the accelerator physicists have continued to, their projections continue to have continued to improve despite what they even thought had been the rosier scenarios, maybe a year, year and a half ago for this as a function of center of mass energy. But it's pretty clear that IP eight IR two is going to give you at low center of mass energy, better instantaneous luminosity. So integrating data for exactly these studies will be crucial there. So flipping this over to an experimental question, you talked about the golden and the silver channels, but within those, what are your what's your dream analysis? What's the analysis you want to see a team working on a detector experiment at IR to pursue as quickly as possible at any of these energies? Okay. So I'm not really involved with the whole desire to think of just the higher trees. So there's a huge program, which is basically what is, well, that comes from the job community. So it will be like T and these GPDs and the mass, the mass equation is part of it. So it's all this, this quantity is observable. So you would have that would benefit from a lower center of mass, right? So, so I don't know what's going to be chosen by by the whole group as as the as the key to pretend you get to dictate it. You get called in by that experiment, they say, okay, what should we measure first to address the concerns you raised in this presentation? My point of view, I'm biased, I will go for GT. Okay. Because it's been there for a long time, it's it's inclusive DIS. We do quite a lot of thoughts too, but that's not the cleanest, but that's that the one that have the path that is already taken. And then I would still go to the silver channel too.  But I mean, with the kinds of coverage and efficiency and acceptance that the detector teams are talking about inclusive as I mean, if you can go for inclusive, go for it. Yeah, okay. So just to continue on this line of discussion, you also pointed out that the twist extracting two or three contributions is actually quite difficult even in the lowest order in QCT. So how can your car, how can the measurements at the first interaction point help you with extraction? Let's say of EX or GT. Okay, so there are many things. So yeah, that's something I forgot to mention, but it can depend on you, you know. Okay, here we go. So this is the MPOLA SPDF. Okay, so the MPOLA SPDF, because we always work with the symmetries for this kind of physics. And then in the case of the symmetries, you would always have the MPOLA SPDF in the denominator, right? So of course, since we work with feeding order, for example, what we often do, but okay, so for GT, they have next to leading role, right? And I think Jam, they also have their own MPOLA SPDF. But the role played by the MPOLA SPDF is actually really important, right? So to leading on the next to the order, we really need to understand what's going on here. And also the rest is, so in that case, that's the dihedron, but if you go to single hedron, you need a fragmentation part, right? So the fragmentation is crucial and I'm not sure that it's really not so, so yeah, so fragmentation needs to be in the lowest region. So I think what would be important here would be the MPOLA SPDF, but then you already know it, but what would be nice is to have it at lower Q-bounds, right? So this is a two hedron fragmentation function? Yeah, that's dihedron, but you would have the same kind of behavior for the other symmetries in the case of single hedron. You would just have, so the good thing with dihedron is that you have simple products. In the case of TMDs, you would have convolutions. So if you say you would have the MPOLA, you have the multiplicity, so the multiplicity will always include the MPOLA SPDF. So from a low Q-square, right? So that's the thing that can depend on. And I think that's that that's also why it's CJ has the fit and Andrew, I'm also doing a piece to use it to lower Q-bounds. That's one thing, yes. Okay. Are there questions, Steve? So you were talking about single hedron here and then the challenge and then you have to know the form factors and fragmentation, things like that. I forget about that. Let's talk jets. Like what if we just reconstruct dijet or single jet systems to do these inclusive measurements? I mean, wouldn't that be much friendlier from a theoretical point of view anyway? So you mean jets as opposed to fragmentation? Yeah. Well, I understand that different functions, right? So yeah. Yeah. And the collisions that we have from the fragmentation function is really related, so that would be from here. But that's part of how can we improve this form of this, right? So they will be the cities form of this when you have this fragmentation here. So of course, you would see jets, but the way it is defined must be slightly different. Yeah. I mean, on the Athena protocol aberration, where a lot of us are just talking about going all in on large radius jets to get as much of the low energy fragmentation as possible to attempt to make the later interpretation back to the part on level more straightforward. That's a lot of this is going to depend on how much material is or isn't in front of a calorimeter and how we can calibrate the jets and things like that. But that's all part of the plan. So and I'm assuming our colleagues over at the competing interaction point are also thinking about some of the same things, right? So yeah. Are the questions, comments online or? Yeah. Okay. Lucas, maybe you can ask a question. Yeah, I just had a question to kind of shift topics here before you talked about like the universality of PDFs up to a certain confidence level, right? I guess out of curiosity, what would be the consequences if we couldn't assume universality of the PDFs? Okay. Okay. So maybe there are two things and might have said both things at the same time. Okay, let's go. There was something here. Okay. So there are two things. So we would like to have PDFs that are portable. So you can take them from one process to another process. That's the case of the polarized PDF because you have fragmentation theorems. And in the case of higher trees, there are, I think there are truths, but they are not too really high. I'm not sure about that. And so what happens, see for example, for the transversity, they are kind of proof of factorization, but then the point is that since you're not really sure that you can, the first time you do it, the first time you combine the experiments, there's always a doubt. That's gonna work, right? And so that's what I mentioned about this universality. So before there were like global analysis of this PDF, people checked that they seem to be compatible in some kind of this way, like checking, like reconstructing things. So what would be the consequences if you don't have this universality? Well, it means that we have not understood or to factorize them, right? Perhaps. And the consequences would be that we cannot have global analysis, which would be bad, very bad. And then there's another thing that I mentioned about universality. Okay, so maybe about, okay, so this one is a different example. So there are fancy trees, tree, TMDs, not trees, two, trees, two TMDs, the severs function in the boom of the functions, they have a balloon, okay? And they match a tree's tree, a tree's tree quadruple-unquad function that is a true thermo one. And why is it so important is because in that case, because of that balloon interaction that I have, the sign of the function will depend on the process. So if you extract those ones from semi-inclusive DIS or from Drillian, you expect to have a different sign. And that's also kind of a proof of universality, right? So all this is universality taken from a different point of view. Did I reply to your question? Yeah, thank you. That helps a lot more. Okay. Okay. Okay, I think, well, we had some very good discussion. And I think we are all ready to thank Aurora. And it was a very informative talk. And thank you for coming here and telling us about this interesting physics. And now my understanding is for Wednesday, well, we have some material prepared. But if you have questions, and basically we could work, go through some of the details of what was shown today. And so please send to me, and I will pass to Aurora. And again, on Wednesday, we'll meet at 3 p.m. in room 202. Yeah, so you know what you would like me to talk. Right. So again, we have a flexible agenda for Wednesday. Therefore, again, we could discuss any of these topics in more detail. We can start with this slide. Probably we'll start with these slides and bring them out and go through them one, well, one by one, and we can stop. Oh, and the other thing is that at 2.30, we will meet to congratulate, well, congratulate Gene on his PhD defense. So we'll have a coffee and then we'll go upstairs to what is recitation. And let's thank, also on Wednesday. Yeah. So let's thank Aurora again. And so. Thank you. Yeah. It wasn't a nice hybrid seminar. Yes. Okay, thank you. So now we're going to have a shutdown for everybody online. So thanks, everyone.


Welcome to In The Studio. I am your guest, David Greenwald. And today, we are going to be talking about the March for Justice, which is going to take place on October the 7th, Friday at 8 AM. And people are going to be marching from Central Park in Davis all the way to the Capitol. So I have in the studio the Reverend Tim Malone. I have Sean Raycraft and Diane Evans. Welcome, guys. Thank you. Thanks, David. So Reverend Malone, can you tell us a bit about the March and what inspired it? Well, what inspired it really are the current events, the major killing that's been happening in Chicago, the Black Lives Matter movement, all of these shootings by police officers, and even the shootings of the people who shot the police. And of course, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, especially Donald Trump and anti-immigration. There's so many issues out there. And the fact that Donald Trump is able to head up the Republican Party ticket is quite frightening. So it's saying that this March is saying, we're marching for justice. We want a better world. And we just can't take a break. Because if you take a break, you might have Donald Trump as president of the United States. So what is this going to look like then on the 7th? As you can plan something, but you really don't know. But there's three points I want to make. First of all is that we assemble at 8 o'clock in Central Park. We're going to meet at the Mahatma Gandhi statue. And some people will ride their bikes. Some people will walk. Some people will march from there all the way to the state capitol. However, the emphasis is to be on the west steps of the state capitol on Friday, October 7th, at 12 noon. And so we have one stop there, one stop marching point from the West Sacramento City Council. And then, of course, the last one is 12 noon at the west steps of the state capitol. We have various people. Someone from Native American speaking on Native American issues. Someone will be speaking on labor issues. Someone will be speaking on, hopefully, world issues like Palestinian conflict and what's going on in Aleppo and Syria. And economic justice, social justice, racial justice, environmental justice, they're all for. Economic justice, racial justice, social justice, and environmental justice. Those are four main areas we're going to talk about. Had you come up with the idea of actually marching from Davis to Sacramento? You know, Gandhi march, you know, King march. Everyone that does something that they feel is significant means you have to take action. March really symbolizes, this is important enough for me that I want people to know about. So we're going to literally march through the streets and carry signs and let people know, hey, this is important. Get registered, vote, get involved. So let's bring Diane and Sean into this conversation too. What do you guys see getting out of this? Start with Sean. Well, for me, it's about being a productive citizen society. I think that people who have an understanding of these issues have a duty to get involved. And as a shop steward, as a trade unionist, I see institutional racism in this country. I see environmental degradation. I see income inequality. I see all these things negatively impacting the people of my community and students, older folks, people like me who work in class. And we have to do something. And I got involved because I think it is everybody's duty, like I said, to be involved and try and make positive change in the world. And these issues need to be addressed. Yes, David, what's exciting about this event for me is we also intend to pass the baton. We're inviting a lot of UC Davis students so they can actually connect with people who have, I was in the Martin Luther King march on Washington. I was in the one the year before, which was the practice march. And I know from the inside out, the value of marching and gaining public attention on injustices. We also want people to realize that by coming together with all of our issues, we can create a louder voice to change and make differences for all the small people who are affected by the injustices. So we say uniting voices to create peace and equality. That is our goal. So what types of groups are actually being united for this event? There are several groups. We have trade unionists. We have Native Americans that are being involved in this. We have hopefully ACLU. We were expecting to have someone from the NAACP to come and be with us. And so there's several groups because all of the issues going on, Standing Rock, the Sioux, is one of the largest uprisings of Native Americans in the country. Actually, they're nations. They're the original people, they're nations. And they're talking about this pipeline that goes underneath a water.  On the land, of course, it was all theirs originally. So there are many, many groups. I'd just like to bring some attention to the Davis-Phoenix Coalition, which is giving a tremendous amount of leadership to this human rights network. So... Yeah, we're calling it the human rights network because it's a coalition of organizations. It seems like such a broad array of different issues. Are you afraid that the message is gonna get lost and all that? Well, that's always, that can always be a challenge. But I think the most important thing is that we want to emphasize voter education and voter registration. We want people involved. They want them to know what's going on. For an example, this election alone in California, there are 17 different propositions, 17. And people need to know what's going on. There's more than just the political elections, but we have the proposition. So being educated, knowing what you're voting on, knowing what's going on, knowing what you're voting on is very important. So we want people to get involved because if you don't get involved, again, we might have somebody like Donald Trump as president of the United States. I wanna go to the Black Lives Matter issue. So there have been two police shootings in the last few days, one in Oklahoma and one in Charlotte. And the reaction in Charlotte has been mass protests, some burning and looting. One person was critically injured when a shot was fired. How can you bring attention to something that already appears to be so massive an issue? Well, it sees you. I think what you do is you have to focus on what's going on because what's going on in Chicago, what's going on in North Carolina, what's going on in cities all across the country have been happening for a long, long time. Not only officers shooting African-Americans, which is quite common, but Chicago, you have a lot of African-Americans killing African-Americans. So when you say Black Lives Matter, you even have to include international Africans in Africa who are suffering under oppression. And sometimes at the hands of other African groups, you have a dominant majority of oppressing a dominant minority, but they're both Africans. So when you say Black Lives Matter, it has to be total. And I like to say, when you say Black Lives Matter, you're really talking about oppressed people. Oppressed people are considered black. For example, we use a Skittle example that they use. The Skittles, remember the Donald Trump Jr. son talked about Skittles as three of them were poisoned? Would you take a handful of them? Well, I think the Skittle Company, our people trying to get the Skittle Company get three Black Skittles, or Black Skittles so they could pick those three out and throw them away.  And so when we're talking about Black Lives Matter, when I'm talking about it, I'm not only talking about African-Americans, I'm talking about Africans, I'm talking about Palestinians, I'm talking about Native Americans, I'm talking about a disabled, I'm talking about any group anywhere on the planet who's oppressed. So that is Black Lives Matter. And I'd like to add to that, that as we look at it, we now see it's a system. The police officer kills the individual, that person goes to court and they're acquitted. And they get to go on vacation while they're waiting for this process to occur with pay. There is nothing that says that it is not right to do it.  And two other police officers came and while he was getting him to give up, they shot the man dead. So, and now this police officer will go on trial himself or violating some law that would protect other police officers. So there's something built into many areas of our culture that allowed the type of oppression that you've mentioned to happen. And we have to deal with it at all of those levels. I'm glad you brought that up, but that's a very important point she made because this particular police officer had training and he knew it was a suicide by cop situation. This African-American man that was shot and wanting the police to kill him, he knew that that's what he wanted to do.  The other officers, they were all white and he was white too, arrived on scene, immediately shot this Black man, killed him. They found out later that the gun he had, it was not even loaded. And the officer who was correct, it was off suicide by cop who did the right thing.  That shows you something's wrong in the training for law enforcement. And that shows you that Black lives don't matter and that too many police officers, there's some good police officers too, but too many police officers are trigger happy, particularly when they address African-American and African-American males. But coming back, I think more locally, it seems like you're trying to bite off such a huge overwhelming issue as she said, Diane, it's a systemic issue. Are you trying to bite off too much here? Well, it happens here, David. It happens in Sacramento that over the last few months there have been several officer related shootings that were they've killed unarmed Black men in Sacramento. So when you say it's something that happens far away, that's just not true. It happens here in our communities and we have an obligation to try and do something about it. And I want you to understand that we're building a big voice. The voice is the bomb. We know that all the people have to come together to deal with such a strong, entrenched kind of oppression. We've been doing it for over 100 years now in our small little groups. We now have to unite those voices and that's one of the things that's gonna happen at our march. All the little people will have an opportunity to express what it means to not have equal or sufficient income. What it means if you're an immigrant and you still don't have healthcare. What it means to not have food that is good for you. Whatever the issue is, it reflects oppression and the voices you hear from the people, not the leaders, but from the people will express how it destroys their life and it will inspire us to take actions uniting our voice. Does that make any sense to you? Absolutely, so I guess my question is, if you have one outcome from this, what is that? For me, it's voter education, voter registration, it's getting people involved, people who care, and waking them up. Like I said, when you fall asleep, you let some monster like Donald Trump be ahead of the Democrat that makes racism, sexism, and all the other negative isms, okay. And you put that person in a leadership position so we have to wake up. This is scary. It's scary that he is actually the leader of the Republican party, the head of the ticket, and that he's a heartbeat away from becoming president of the United States of America. Now, Sean is gonna have to help me with this one, but we just met on Tuesday and he brought a man with him and we're now talking about gathering throughout Yolo County to support each other's events. And if you could tell him more about the structure of this unity of one voice looks like. Definitely. Well, all these issues that we've been talking about, Black Lives Matter, income inequality, environmental degradation, they're all related, okay. And I've noticed as I've been an activist for a few years now that there's all these different groups of people that are all working on these different issues and they do not work together. And that's sad. So what we're trying to do, like what the fight for 15 is trying to do, which has become more than just about a wage. It's become about systematic racism, sexism, and inequality. It's trying to unite all these voices into one movement. And that's what this is about for me. And we're gonna be trying to put all these voices together in the same room where we can all work together and collaborate to build a broader progressive movement. And one of the things I was struck by was the fact that they said those who have more experience with changing the system and with marching and all the other tools will be there to assist any group, any issue, to become strong to present their issue to the public. And so by working together, there's going to be education, there's going to be louder voices, and they're gonna be smarter changes. So we only have two minutes left. Reverend Malone, can you tell us kind of the take away message you would like people to get out of this? The most important thing really is to register to vote and vote, to get involved, be informed, to be educated, to take a friend to the polling booth, to read up on the issues so you know about economic justice, social justice, racial justice, environmental justice. And so we work together, united as a group of people that really wanna make this world a better place for all. That's the key. We wanna lift people up to a higher level. And we wanna reach down and bring people from the bottom up and higher and push them even above where we've ever been. It's like Dr. Martin Luther King. You know, yeah, I have a dream speech. The one day my four little children will live in a nation that would not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. It's all about character. Thank you. So the March for Justice Friday, October 7th, starts at 8 a.m. and people will travel from Central Park in Davis all the way to the Capitol in Sacramento. This has been In the Studio and I was your host, David Greenwald. Thank you.


Hello and welcome to the session, I am Deepika here. Let's discuss the question, point d by dx of the following function, x is to power y plus y raise to power x is equal to 1. So let's start the solution. Given that x is to power y plus y raise to power x is equal to 1, now putting u is equal to x raise to power y and v is equal to y raise to power x, we get u plus v is equal to 1. Now differentiate both sides with respect to x, d u by dx plus d v by dx is equal to 0. So let us take this as equation number 1. Now find the derivative of u and derivative of v and we will substitute in equation 1. Now consider u is equal to x raise to power y taking logarithm on both the sides, we have log u is equal to y log x. Now differentiate both sides with respect to x, we have 1 by u into d u by dx is equal to, now we will find derivative of y log x using product rule. So y into derivative of log x that is 1 by x plus log x into derivative of y with respect to x this is d y by dx this implies d u by dx is equal to u into y by x plus log x into d y by dx. Substitute the value of u here, we get d u by dx is equal to x raise to power y into y by x plus log x into d y by dx so we have d u by dx is equal to d u by dx is equal to y into x raise to power y minus 1 plus x raise to power y into log x d y by dx now we will find out d v by dx so again we have v is equal to y raise to power x this implies taking log on both sides we get log v is equal to x log y. Now differentiate both sides with respect to x we get 1 by v into d v by dx is equal to x into derivative of log y this is 1 over y into derivative of y with respect to x is d y by dx plus log y into derivative of x that is 1 so this implies d v by dx is equal to v into x by y d y by dx plus log y now substitute the value of v here we get d v by dx is equal to v raise to power x into x raise to power y x by y d y by dx plus log y which is equal to into y raise to power x minus 1 d y by dx plus y raise to power x into log y now substitute values of d u by dx and d v by dx in equation 1 we have y into d u by dx is y into y into x raise to power y minus 1 plus x raise to power y log x d y by dx plus d v by dx is x y raise to power x minus 1 d y by dx plus y raise to power x log y is equal to 0 now collect the term containing d y by dx we have d y by dx into x raise to power y log x plus x y raise to power x minus 1 is equal to minus y x minus 1 minus y raise to power x log y so this implies d y by dx is equal to minus y raise to power y minus 1 minus y raise to power x log y upon x raise to power log x plus x y raise to power x minus 1 hence the answer for the above question is d y by dx is equal to minus minus 9 common y x raise to power y minus 1 plus y raise to power x log y upon x y raise to power x raise to power y log x plus x into y raise to power x minus 1 this is our answer given question I hope the question is clear to you my and have a nice day


Is WordPress a product or a community? So I thought it was interesting to ask this question in this kind of room because we are not a unbiased audience, people who have decided or who have convinced their bosses to pay for them to come spend a few days here in Chicago. Clearly you're already predisposed to think that if the community is not sort of the center of the WordPress experience and at least it's important enough for you to spend your time and money to come here. So we in this room are not maybe an unbiased audience for this question. It also so happens that the people in this room are for various structural reasons, the people who advocate for the use of WordPress within their organizations. So whether you work for a client services organization and so you're trying to convince clients to use WordPress with you, whether you work in a news organization and you're trying to convince your bosses that WordPress is the right software for your organization, you are sort of the WordPress acolytes, the people who are saying we should use WordPress. And because of this overlap where the people who are arguing for the use of WordPress are also the people who think that the community is a valuable part of the WordPress experience, it is not surprising that in the WordPress pitch one of the things that you inevitably hear is WordPress has a really great community. So for people in this room who are already self-selected people who think that the community is really warm and fuzzy and great, of course this sounds like a great argument for using WordPress. But when your stakeholders who aren't already sold on the community as a great way to organize a software project, they might hear community and think something a little bit different. Who's in charge? Who do I call if something goes wrong? Who is responsible for making decisions in this thing? How do I know that the quality of the product that I will be getting matches up with what I would expect from a proprietary vendor where they have a board of directors and stockholders and things like that to answer to. So the very thing that we are trying to argue for, which is that WordPress has a great community and this makes it a valuable piece of software for us to use in our organizations. This is exactly the kind of argument that may turn off a certain kind of stakeholder. And I think too often we don't appreciate that because we ourselves are already inculcated into the importance of community within WordPress. So my thought for today is that we, as the WordPress acolytes, as the faithful, we need to come up with ways of talking about community and thinking about community, really a reconceptualization of the idea of community that is, on the one hand, fair to the real benefits that community-driven development bring to a piece of software, but on the other hand, that speaks to the very real and very justified fears that some stakeholders have about software products that may have tons of legacy code or that may have a decision-making process that is somewhat less than totally transparent. So how do we talk about community in a way that satisfies both of those things? And today what I wanna do is just give you a couple of provocations, a couple of ways of thinking about community that are maybe a little bit different from the warm and fuzzy part of community that we all know and love, but still reflect the nature of community and at the same time speak to this disparity between what we love about community and what stakeholders might fear about it. So the first has to do with diversity. And by this I don't necessarily mean diversity of a demographic sort, although that's part of it. What I mean is more diversity of an ecological sort. One of the cornerstones of Darwin's theory of evolution is that the evolutionary process in a biological community is driven forward by, is accelerated by a greater diversity in the genetic pool. So the dynamic here is that when you have a limited set of resources, you know food or shelter, then there's a lot of competition for those resources. And if there's a greater diversity in the pool of people who are competing, or organisms that are competing rather, then the winner of those competitions is going to be better suited for the environment than an environment where there was no competition whatsoever. So having a lot of diversity in the environments, in other words, has the tendency to produce an end result that is maybe better suited or a better quality organism in some manner of speaking. So something similar can be said to happen in the context of software development organizations. So just to pick on somebody, take Medium. Medium is a piece of software that in many ways is similar to what WordPress is or it tries to be. And I'm sure that internally, the Medium folks have done a really great job of fostering diversity of a certain sort. But there's one critical aspect, one critical quality that all of the people on the Medium engineering team share. They work for Medium. They get their checks for Medium. They answer to Medium's bosses. And when it comes time to make decisions about what's important for the Medium software, they have to somehow take into consideration or abide by the overarching principles that drive Medium as a corporate entity or whatever it is that they do. So contrast this with a system like our humble one, the WordPress system, where there is a big player and there's a big player who devotes a lot of resources toward the development of the software that we all use. But that's not the whole story. We have a much more diverse ecology of contributors. So we have individuals who come from large client services organizations to contribute to the project. They come from a different place. We have individuals that come from WordPress-specific hosting companies. We have individuals that come from large hosting companies, large companies. We have handsome and intelligent individual contributors. This is a diversity of knowledge, a diversity of background, a diversity of goals that is much like the ecological diversity that we talked about before in the sense that it provides a kind of strength. It's a way of guarding against bad mutations in a shallow gene pool by making the gene pool deeper. This is an aspect of community that we should be selling to our stakeholders. Here's another provocation. Communities are essentially conservative. This has come up in a couple talks so far. John talked a little bit about this yesterday. To think about conservatism, I like to think about this guy. There are some systems of government that are set up in such a way to allow for bold, brash, unilateral, risky rash decision-making. So if you're Henry VIII and you say, you know what, I'm gonna break from the church of Rome and I'm gonna start a new church and guess what, I'm the head of the church. He can do that, right? That's what the monarchy gives him. That's the system that he has chosen and it allows for rash decision-making like that. Now in contrast, we have some systems that don't allow for that kind of rash decision-making. So in a system like that one that's designated by the US Constitution, we have checks and balances like we all learned about in civics class and this ensures that no individual part of the system is able to make rash decisions without at least the acquiescence of other parts of the system. That's how it's supposed to work, at least. Now this is a kind of conservatism that's baked into the system because it prevents radical action. The same dynamic can be seen in software development. If you have a rash dictatorial, mad genius overlord at the helm of your software project, then you can make bold, crazy rash decisions that may turn out really well, they may not, but in any case, structurally, you're prepared for that. But when you have a system where the power, the decision-making ability is spread out through many different parts of a system like the US government maybe, but in a system like this, where you have a diverse pool of contributors that's coming from many different points of view, then it prevents rash decisions from being made. It prevents quick decisions from being made. And this is the kind of frustration that we often feel as developers because it's frustrating to have to work with old technology. We hate PHP 5.2 and so on and so forth, but this is the kind of conservatism that speaks to stakeholders because it's this kind of conservatism that guarantees that WordPress maintains backward compatibility through releases. It's this kind of conservatism that guarantees that WordPress doesn't jump on technology behind wagons and into unproven technologies. So is WordPress a community or a product? Well, from a very simple point of view, what your stakeholders want is a piece of software that does for them what they need done today. They want a product. But we know, the acolytes, that the product that exists today may not resemble the product as it exists tomorrow. And so what we're really selling when we sell WordPress or any piece of software is not just the product as it exists today, but it is the system that produces the product because the system that produces the product is what, that's what we are relying on to produce the product that we want to see one year from now, two years from now, five years from now. And in the case of WordPress, the system that produces the product is our community. So that's the kind of arguments that we should be making when we talk about the value of community in the WordPress project. Thanks.


Okay, we're back. This is Dave Vellante. I'm with Wikibon.org and my co-host Jeff Kelly is here with me. We're here all day at the MIT Information Quality Symposium. This is theCUBE. We go to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. We bring you the smartest people at these events and share with you their knowledge. Mario Faria is here. He is a member of the MIT Data Science Initiative. He is a big data technology advisor to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and an individual that knows a lot about CDO's chief data officers. He was the first chief data officer in Latin America and has recently moved to the United States. Welcome to theCUBE and welcome to America. Thank you. So glad to be here, Dave. Yeah, it's great to see you. So you were here yesterday as well, Mario, talking to the chief data officers. I think you did a talk on unstructured data and I want to talk about that. But I want to go back to your role as the chief data officer at Boa Vista, which was part of Equifax. The first one in Latin America, we heard from Stuart Madnick today that the guys at MIT Sloan did some research. They said the first CDO they could ever find was like 2003. I'm sure they existed before that, a different name. But how did it come about that you became the first chief data officer in Latin America? Richard Wong was part of the Stuart Madnick team. He went to Brazil three years ago, had a meeting with the members of Boa Vista, and he asked them, why don't you have a CDO in place here? You guys need a CDO because your business is data related. So the CEO for the company, he reached me out. I have an experience with digital marketing, with supply chain, CRM, and I'm not a data guy per se, but I'm more on the downstream of data process. I understand how to make use and monetize in terms of data.  That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. So that's interesting because in the early days of CIO, even before the CIO term came about, the leader of technology tended to be somebody who was very technical. Increasingly, they're more business people. So it sounds like the CDO is taking a similar path. Is that right? That's right. Even though I have a background in computer science, through my whole life, I've been working on very specific technology projects related to business benefits, like in a sense that to streamline some operations for retailers, in a sense of increasing customer loyalty for some global brands throughout the world, and that's why I got involved with this data. Boa Vista, so the notion of a CDO, so your CEO essentially made the decision after talking to Richard, he got the idea, and I'm sure he had a good gut feel about it as well. Was there any other justification process? I mean, we heard earlier this morning from our keynote speaker, Dat, that this is not a project. This is a journey, it's an ongoing thing. How do you justify, how do organizations justify the role of a CDO, how do they make a business case around it? Do they have to, or is it just so blatantly obvious that they need one? We have this question yesterday, and my point is, when you bring a CFO, do you make a business case to bring your CFO, or do you make a business case to bring your CIO in place? So it's a matter of a common sense. For every company nowadays, data has been a critical asset to bring value, in a sense that you have to manage your data, you have to have a good strategy on how and where to buy data from your partners, and how you combine this data to create information that's available for your customers that you are trying to serve. So was it your responsibility to do, so what did you do when your first day on the job, what did you, what did you say, do I have to start with figuring out how to build a data architecture, do I figure what I have, or what did you do? First day on the job, I spent the majority of the time talking to my peers, understanding their expectations, try to understand how they feel about data, to understand what data quality problems the company had that were hurting sales, that were hurting product development. I would say that my first hundred days on the job, I did more listening than to do any action. Okay, so I tried to understand all the issues, and together with my team, we created this vision that what we need to do to implement in the years to come. So you were like a CEO taking over a new job, like Meg Whitman, I said, Meg, what did you do on the first day of the job? It was the first day and the first hundred days, I always just see customers. You saw your customers, you sought them out. That's correct, because you have two approaches of being a successful CEO. You can be a tactical one in a sense that you can look at the data, data management and everything, or you can have a more strategic approach. And when the CEO came to me and invited me for the position, he told me, Mario, I want data to be looked at as a strategic asset for your business. And I want you to be as much strategic as you can, as you can, to help our business to move forward. So in a sense, I like running a business on my own. So really, it sounds like the key to getting started is focused on the business problem and the business issues and maybe the business opportunities rather than the data, which maybe is a little counterintuitive to the role of a chief data officer. Would that be accurate? It's very accurate, because going back to the return on investment question that Dave has just asked, you're there to try to make a difference. You're there to make money or to save costs in an area that you have some inefficiencies. So in that sense, what I did and what my team did with me, the team that I led, we're looking at issues that we had to solve. From the day one, I told my organization, we're going to be working on the world, out world in a sense. We're going to be working for the sales organization, for the products organization, for the people who are there in front of the customers. We're going to be helping them. We are going to be a service provider organization for them to succeed. Talk a little bit about the organizational structure. So where does the CDO really sit in the organizational structure? And how do you and your team, how do you help your team engage with the business? Do you have team members sitting in business units? Or how do you actually structure, where does the CDO sit and how do you structure your team throughout the enterprise? Okay, in our case, data was so important that this chief data officer position was reporting to the CEO directly. So the CIO was my peer, the leader of sales, the leader of marketing, the leader of products, they were all my peers. I was reporting directly to the CIO. Depending on the company, you see some CDOs reporting to the COO. Depending on the company, you see them reporting to the people at marketing. What I don't think is the best move is for the CDO to report to the CIO. I don't buy that because data should be seen as a business issue, not as a technical issue. And in the sense of my organization, I have created several areas and I invited my team in people that are responsible for data acquisitions, people responsible for the data operations that were bringing the data that were coming in and making sure that all the process was streamlined until the data was combined to give information. I had people with responsible for data quality. I had people responsible for performance improvement, people with Six Sigma and Lean backgrounds that were looking through the whole process and not just from the data perceived, but all the functions involved with that. And I also had the data architecture organization that were responsible for helping IT work together with the product team to define new solutions. At one time, our organization had 120 people, which was from what I have seen here on the research on the MIT, was one of the largest data organizations in the world. So we're here at the information quality symposium. So talk a little bit about the concept of data quality, information quality in this big data world. You've been in this business a while. How has the concept of data quality evolved as we're starting to talk about quote unquote big data, new data sources coming from often outside the enterprise, whether it's social media data or it could be machine generated data, whatever the case may be. How has data quality, the concept evolved? And what does it look like today in a big data world? We have a saying with data, people say, if garbage in, garbage out. So if you don't have data process quality in every step where your data is being processed in your organization, you will have a problem and you'll be hurting yourself down the line. So the term data quality, I think it should evolve as being part of what we call this framework of data science. Data science in per se is how you can look at raw data and make that data bring value to you, to your organization, to your business. So in a sense, quality for me is one of the pillars for the data science framework. So that's really part of what the job of a data scientist is to apply those data quality measures, it sounds like. That's correct. That's correct. And I have the lucky to have a very competent team in place in my organization. People with Six Sigma background, that helped a lot to create those metrics. So for any organization that wants to succeed, try to look at the Toyota production system, try to look at the lean methodologies, try to look at Six Sigma that became very popular because of General Electric GE. So look at those things outside of the data area because they really apply for the data concepts. Right. So data science is more than just knowing statistics, it's knowing some of these business concepts and Six Sigma and the Lean model, if you will. So Maury, you talked yesterday to the CDO gathering of unstructured data was your topic. We had Stuart Madnick on before, he gave us a three dimensional model and one of the dimensions he might have talked to you about this was the kind of data, the traditional data, sales data, inventory data versus what he called a nouveau data, Twitter, which is essentially unstructured. And some people don't like that term, I'm comfortable with the term unstructured or semi-structured, whatever you want to call it. What was the discussion like? What were you talking to the CDOs about and what was the feedback? We have there people from a financial service organization, people from health care and basically we're trying to look where unstructured data makes sense and how do you go to do projects and how can you succeed on that. And specifically when you see a world as of today and that the US government is building near Utah a 2.5 billion dollar facility to monitor what's happening in terms of communication, social media and everything, they have a very large unstructured data problem. And the point that I brought yesterday, we should bring those guys here next year so they can teach us what they are doing, how they are creating the metadata, how they are using a dictionary, what data quality issues they are dealing with every day. Should not bring them here to discuss if they are doing is right or wrong. Forget about that, but let's talk on the tech technicalities that they are doing, metalloids they are applying for that. And yesterday we were able to figure out that not everybody is using their internal data that they have inside the organization. So if you want to go there and get information from social media, from what the media is telling about your company, your brand, or you get a brand sentiment that we interfere in your marketing campaigns. You should also look at the internal data that you are being generated for emails that have been sent for your contracts that probably are not in place at this point. So you have a lot of internal data that probably is not being used at this point. So thinking about sort of the traditional issues around data quality in the world of what some people again call structured and thinking about your role at Boa Vista. A part of a company that does credit reporting. So obviously it's very important to have data quality there. And then compare that to Twitter data, we're a false positive, no big deal. In the one hand you've got things like financial services in healthcare, which is critical, and then you've got this influx of new data. How do you see the change in the structure of the data affecting the data quality imperative? Yeah, depending on the business that you go, granularity plays a large role. And in our case, it was very granular. We have to go to the quality down to every detail for a customer or for a company like an address, phone, or credit history. Or chase history that a company or individual might have in the past. So we have to be really, really careful. And when we apply data quality methodologies, we have to be even more paranoid on dealing with that. Because any error could hurt our business tremendously. So quality was played a really, really strong issue on every day for our business. Well, so can you take that credit score? Okay, great, I got 780, I'm good, well below that, I'm bad. Could you apply that even in a traditional business, like credit scoring, to social media? I mean, come up with some kind of social media, social graph, propensity to swear in public on social data. Do you see that or are those two separate worlds? It sounds like the latter. No, you're absolutely right. Take a company like Cloud, what they do, you have your social media score. In a sense, what they're doing that, saying how many tweets are retweeting, or how many posts on your Facebook people are liking. In a sense, Cloud is a social media credit score company. So I bet that the founder of Cloud, he looked at the credit bureau industry for that. And with the credit bureau, we have to look outside to do our jobs better. And what I did as a CDO there, I implemented concepts that I took from manufacturing companies. What I told you about the Toyota production system, Six Sigma from GE, and also the Lean methodologies, those are companies that were applied first for manufacturing companies. And I used them to manage digital assets. Now, you're also chairing a session on new trends and directions in data science. What are some of the things that you hope to learn at that session? Well, I hope to learn a lot because I'm bringing two individuals that are the top notch guys from what I have done my conversations recently for the last few months. I was very impressed with Matt, with Andrew. And I brought them here to this conference for them to share what they see as the future that when we go beyond Hadoop and MapReduce, Hadoop and MapReduce are great technologies. But they do not solve some of the problems that we are seeing. They create a lot of problems. That's right. And we're going to be talking about how artificial intelligence makes sense for you to implement a high end data quality initiative and where we're going beyond Hadoop and MapReduce. And those are the discussions that we're going to be having in that. So you're saying using analytics algorithms in a machine to improve data quality, and then the obvious follow on question there is the bromide and big data is you can't take humans out of the, humans are the last mile. So if you buy that, or can machines do most of it in terms of a data quality standpoint? Machines can automate, but we're now going to be able to take the human side of that, okay? And a lot of tasks that I do as of today that my team does and all the data professionals that they have to do are still not very automated. So there's a lot of things that you can automate, make their jobs more brain oriented and not as like labor oriented. So that, because currently it doesn't scale well. That's correct. It's way too expensive to scale. So in your vision, to the extent that you can automate, let's say, whatever, 80%, 90% of those tasks, are you then at the point where you can scale much more seamlessly? We can scale and we'll be able to look at new data sources. We'll be able to create new solutions that they're not here in this market as well. For example, when I joined Boa Vista and I understood what a cred bureau company does, we're not just about the cred bureau. We're about human behavior. We have information about human beings and how do they interact with each other. So when you go to a store and buy a cell phone, for example, and the cell operator checks your cred history, he's looking at a lot of things that happen in your past life that it's part of your human behavior. So cred scar companies have to look at that, have to look at new sources of information that can improve or can lower your cred score throughout your life. Yes. You're talking about new sources of business value being created. How do you think that'll change the spending profile? I mean, because let's face it, this entire industry has been under huge budget pressures for at least a decade. Oh, I've got to spend more on my data warehouse and it takes me forever to get another channel into my system. Do you think what you're describing will change the spending profile and the investment profile? I think it will change a lot. Let me tell you from my personal experience. I moved here to the United States in December. I couldn't buy a car here because I didn't have any cred history in the United States. Even though I had, I carried 15 years of good cred history.   I can't buy a car here. Can you believe that? So it took me a while until I could get a car because the cred score company here in the United States, they were not using information from other countries. So in some sense, there are a lot of inefficiencies. In our industry, that's very big data-oriented. So if you look at other industries, you see those kinds of inefficiencies, and that's how the CDO plays a large part of that. So we're getting close on time, but I wonder if you could give one piece of advice to other maybe CDOs out there, they're just kind of getting started in their job. And what piece of advice would you give them to be successful in their careers? Not necessarily a technology related, but career advice for a CDO, what does it take? What's a good piece of advice in terms of surviving out there in this relatively new role that may be looked on with a little bit of suspicion from other parts of the organization? Yeah, not every data person will be a CDO down the road. In a sense that not every soldier will be a general down the road. So a lot of skills are needed if you want to be a CDO. You have to be good at communication, you have to be good at data, you have to be good at statistics and mathematics, you have to be good at dealing with people, and you have to be a great understanding on technology as well. So you have to be a more complete profile to succeed. So it's really a blend of skills it sounds like. That's right. Fantastic. Well Mario, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. We appreciate having you. Great conversation. We hope you'll join us again next time our pass cross. Excellent. So yeah, and good luck with the panel and it was a pleasure meeting you. So we'll see you soon. All right, keep right there everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Jeff Callie. This is theCUBE. We're right back with our next guest right after this.