Good evening. This is the open meeting on September 14th of the Arlington Redevelopment Board It's been conducted remotely consistent with the Governor Baker's executive order March 12th, 2020 Due to the current state of emergency For this meeting Arlington Redevelopment Board is convening by Zoom as posted on the town website. Please note that this meeting is being recorded This is Kinna Laow vice chair You confirm that all members and staff are present. It can hear me. I Apologize if I put your name a little bit. I'm sorry Boy members when I call your name, please respond in the affirmative Gene Benson here David Watson here Rachel's Mary here Jenny right Here and Erwin circle I'm here and Rachel is not here yet, right? Katie is cat cat. Sorry Katie. Katie's not here right now All right, so I'm gonna switch the meeting around a little bit and Hold off and welcome Katie and organization meeting and go to docket Number three six three one Forty four hundred and seventy three mass have the continuing hearing for the sign so a lot open the meeting with Seven o'clock is the is the opponent ready to speak Hello, Kim. This is Patricia Warden. It will not let me into the usual meeting Because I'm unauthorized apparently This is a public these are public hearings. I would like if I could be on the zoom video, etc Who's this Patricia Warden? Jenny can you I don't have control on anything like that. Can you see if she get on the video? Thank you I'll work on that if you can continue, please Okay Is the opponent ready to speak about the sign? Oh, I'm not supposed to say something. I'm sorry. Yeah we Continue we continue this and we asked you to Go ash we want to look at your sign. I actually went down and saw the The sign Rachel, did you get a chance to look at it, too? I did I did I did Before the last meeting and then there were the photos that were included in the revised package All right, do you want to speak a little bit about your resubmission and what you want to do again? briefly Yeah, I think can everybody hear me Yes Okay, great So I think I think in the first meeting even I was gonna confuse with the drawings, you know Because I think the new submission Looks like what we have right now, you know, it looks like this massive panel with the name on it, you know, which is What I want to do is I want to just Reduce that whole thing, you know, and I think The drawings didn't kind of Portray that thing properly because we didn't have that side view, you know, so now we submitted the side view and if you look at The board itself, which is only like, you know, it's the top part of it That's all I want to do. I don't want to like, you know, because right now if you measure the sign the total square footage of the sign right now is a hundred and fifty four square feet, which is massive, you know So we it even for us, it just looks too big now So I think the new thing is the board Right right there that one, you know, which is just three feet from the top, you know So that's all the the lettering will be just on that on that On that whatever the background. I don't know what it's called it's like an aluminum background just to cover all the concrete and then the lettering actually would be much smaller than that so And then we have that awning that continues down, you know, but this too, you know for the sun thing the sun hits the windows So the actual sign is going to be just the top part of it, which is Much much much smaller. So it basically look say from 154 square feet what it is right now We go to minus almost a hundred square square feet I think it's going to go around to like what 90 something minus So it'd be like somewhere on the 60 60 something square feet So now it makes sense to me too because we didn't have the side view in that first meeting How long how long is the sign The you mean the width. Yep The width is so with the problem is that the on the edges, you know, the You know, there's like all this concrete and the some I don't know why it's taken out, you know So the backboard is just to cover that. I think it's about it's about 21 or 22 feet across and And top to downs about three feet. Okay Rachel you have any Comments so I mean as presented the sign is is larger than what's required in the signage bylaws But from what I see from the photos that you included and then assuming that the That the substrate so the backer that you're putting proposing to put the sign against is similar to Your neighbor to the left as you look at the at the building I think that there's some significant Damage to the sign band area that would be exposed if we asked you to reduce the side of the of the size of the sign so While I think that the sign is is Still too too big. I think that again, you've You've tried to reduce the size of the lettering and if we asked you to Pull in the sides we'd expose that that The the the building facade which it looks like it's it's deteriorated quite a quite a bit so My request would be that we perhaps remove the curly cues at the at the edges and really just look at the actual um Signage itself I do have a question about how this is actually lit because I I can't tell from the you know I appreciate first of all that you gave us this Section this is exactly what we were looking for my question is how this is lit So are the letters themselves is the light going to Cast onto the panel behind it is the light behind the letters or is it from the front? So the back of the panel itself is not lit. You're going to light The letters themselves. Okay, just the letters are going to be backlit. So they'll glow forward. Okay Great, those are my only clarification questions. Okay David well, I'll I'll just um Come back to my uh Thought that we had the last time which was What about moving the curly cues? directly next to the letters instead of in the corner to kind of keep the integrity of the artwork but but But narrow the visual impact of of of the sign because I I do agree with rachel that It would definitely be undesirable to pull in The backer panel and expose the the sign band in the condition that it's in So I'm just I'm just thinking about whether we can Maybe help help them maintain the artistic integrity of of of the work By not instead of eliminating the curly cues just pulling them in right next to the wording if if the proponent Wanted to do that. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I think I you know, I actually kind of read, you know Kind of on my computer. I kind of brought it in and it looks pretty good actually I like that I can do that Yeah, I don't know what the rest of you think about that idea Okay, David, uh, you done, uh, yeah, I didn't have any other comments Jean Yeah, I I will start by saying I agree. This would be an unusual circumstance because The original sign band on the building seems to be In very bad condition. I don't think it would be in the public interest to have that shown If the sign was pulled in on the other hand, I do think the sign is too big And I know we're supposed to Count the entire area of the sign, but what I would like to see Is is the wording and any other curly cues Within the 40 square feet, which is the technical Requirement, I think for signs of the size so you can have in my idea You could still have the entire length covered But the area that says esotron cochino mexicana and whatever artwork would be Within the 40 square feet, which I think is where rachel was headed, but I just wanted to put it within the actual numerical Parameters of requirements I think that's a brilliant idea anything else gene? I have only One major issue and I just want to see if Um, do you see where the sign ban and uh canopy transitions? I was wondering if if we go back to the elevation of before and after um, if you can make that transition between the Sign ban and the canopy align with The green stucco that used to be a very nice corners. I think it would read much nicer all the way across and carry a line across there Um You know either deleting or bringing the curly cues in or out Uh, I can go either way with that.  I just want to make sure that it's aligned with that green Pylas green band it goes across You following what i'm saying Uh Can I talk to me? Yes Uh, no not quite I haven't got that thought Jenny can you pull up the elevation? Ken are you saying you want the the gold part of the sign to basically have the same Height as the sign band on the building? Yeah That green there's a green band that goes around that used to be a corners If that can line up with that right there and I don't mind the length going to full length Is it hides all the stuff behind it? Yes, but now if you have that line sort of carrying across It I think I think uh It'll make it look nicer What do you guys think? Which green band can the one on the left or the right photograph the one on the left? Yes Or the on top of that door on the left? Yeah So that green band ends right there after that. It's all concrete. I realized that but yeah Which that's what you see that's what you perceive from the street So I think you know, um, I'm not sure where you where Where that band stops and starts right now on your section. It doesn't really make it clear Is it above that? That transition between the brick or is it below or it's it's very hard to tell I'm just saying can we just align it there? So ken I'm not quite clear what you're saying. Are you saying that How high? The sign is Should be the same height as the green band. So I think the proposed sign is 36 inches this way Yes, that green band is 24 inches Are you saying it should just be 24 inches so it lines up? With the green band Yes, and then then I'm okay Yes, and then I'm okay with the length of the of the width of the Assigned band, you know covering more because now it sort of lines up and it adjusts it You know it goes with the architecture So if you look at the the store on on our left side, yep It's we have a salon over there and it doesn't do it Yeah, it's kind of like You know, so the band will kind of like It will align with us then and it won't be aligned on the other side So if you want to look at it from far in the whole building It'll be a little disproportionate. That's what I'm saying. I'm thinking. I don't know But that that green band ends right there and right after that green band is where all the The depleted concrete starts, you know stucco. Yes. It's stucco. The stucco, you know, that's I'm the word for it. So um But I think I know what you're saying right now, you know if I put if I put the board just As as say as a green whatever then the lettering Uh on top to down with a with a citron cosina americana Will be a little smaller, you know And I don't think it'll be yeah, it won't be, you know, uh, visible to the older people, you know So, uh And that's that's my thoughts. I don't know. I mean it might look good across Then the whole purpose of putting the the letters up there is I don't know what to do that But you know, you have a you have a very nice restaurant and I think Recognition of where your restaurant is is, you know, not I don't think that's that big of an issue right now But I mean, I'm just curious right now what the other board members think You know, I can be I can be talked into It took time kin it took me nine years to do that, you know, nobody knew us in the first three years Well, you did a good job Thank you. Thank you. I mean, you know, the new sidewalk is going the lamps are there I just wanted to look pretty that's all No, I like your little courtyard and back or to the side. It's nice. Thank you, sir. Thank you You should uh, you should tell my wife that And I have I have no real preference about whether he shrinks But the the height of the sign Or not I don't know what Rachel or David think about that I mean, I'm I'm looking I'm I just pulled it up in street view and I'm looking and uh The signs on the businesses to either side uh Aren't even close to aligning with the sign ban um And our different shapes and sizes so I'm I'm not sure that it would really Add much to align it But I don't have a strong preference one way or the other as long as we get the artwork on the sign within the allowable square footage of of the sign What do you think Rachel? So right now the letters are 30 inches tall which is Tall I mean those are that's a that's still a large sign. So I I don't disagree with you can I think that it was Reduced slightly that you'd still have a sign that was permanent enough to To be able to Communicate at the scale that you that you want to And and you're right. I think proportionately it would it would it would Really work better with the with the building. I think that this also needs Um to go Jenny cart me up from wrong to the historic Commission as well And I I would assume that that would be their preference as as well to align architecturally with one of the elements of the um Existing building. So I I think that that was a good suggestion I'm persuaded by both of you. I would go along with that too and keeping The lettering and design will make a little easier to keep it within the 40 square feet Yeah, I'm supportive of that and then in the future if If other businesses in the building change their signage we can Get them More aligned with with the old sign band Are you okay with that or you don't want to accept that because I think that's I don't know I don't completely like it because I think you know This is where I'm coming from.  Yeah, I mean, yeah I can It's no change the canopy and have the hundred and fifty four square feet, you know Yep, and I have that massive thing, but I don't want that. Look, you know, I think it's too big It's just too big, you know And I want to look a little more elegant And at the same time purposeful as in like, you know The lettering has to be a certain size and if I go with that side the old band I think I'm I'm I'm a little bit of a disadvantage over there I'll try to get us close to it. Maybe but I think that's too small for the lettering because we have two lines We have a citron and we have the casino mehikana if we go Uh With that whatever that height. I think the casino mehikana will just Probably one of them Can I make a suggestion then? Um, because I think if you reduce the the depth of your sign, you're going to get much closer to the maximum allowable signage So you could look at Rather than stacking them You know keeping as a tron and then kachina mehikana next to next to the sign rather than stacking them, which would then allow you to um Right, so you're talking about one line But potentially I mean I would look at it to see again Does that fall within the the 40 square feet that we that we've talked about? But I think that would allow you to maximize the height But then again stay within this the sign band the original historic sign band of the building um If you'd probably be about the same size that you're showing now it would just be Um, it would just be next to each other as opposed to To to stacked so right so so then you know that then what happens is you know those little things on the side uh ratio Those are kind of be like I feel like those are going to be like little misaligned You know the curlies on the left on the right if I put a citron and Uh continue that line with you know, uh kachina mehikana right next to it to stay within the band I I feel like that's going to be a little you know a little off. I think this is like more centered and you know You know the thing is because of the backlit letters um Nothing, you know probably will be noticeable After like six o'clock, you know in the dark the only thing that'll be prominent. I mean Will be just the letters, you know the backlit, you know I don't think people even notice the side band and you know And then if you look at the building in the hall from like say across the street the left left side of the business is a completely different sign, you know and It already is kind of this This proportionate right now, you know So for me, I have a good feeling about this You know, I'm asking for a little on the left a little on the right, but I agree with Eugene I'd like to bring those those curly things inside so that it looks much smaller I'll I can do that. I can put it right next to The a citron on the left on the right and just leave the blank and leave the side all blank He's going to take the goose next out, you know And Another thing will happen is also if I go along with the band Rachel the green band The awning becomes much bigger too You know You know Well, I think I think we have a But it's going to look like the original one, you know the big awning, you know, so Why am I even putting the sign up? I can just see the band on the old one, you know Well, that's certainly your that's certainly your choice. I think everybody here on the board is has Has their feelings on this and we made it clear to you. So You can you have your choices of either aligning it or just redoing your redoing your existing canopy. Okay I think I think we're all in agreement right now unless someone disagrees with me and If you want to submit this in as is right now, we can make the modifications For for a vote or if you don't we can propose postponers for another vote With no for now submit a live You know, I'm I'm open to what you want to do But we can either vote on it now with what with what we want or hold off on it It's not going to be a discussion Going back and forth much more than this right now Yeah Sorry, David. Go ahead. Oh, sorry. I I kind of zoomed out a little bit And at what I was looking at and you know, I think On that block There's really only to only two of the shops Have their signage In in the area of the actual sign band Um And they're the ones at at the all the way on the left side of the building the the music store and the and the crystal store But then Arlington centers Arlington centered sign is not In the sign band pun jobs sign is not Aligned with the sign band The salon is not aligned with the sign band Um So I You know, I'm kind of torn between uh thinking that we should, uh Push the businesses that are not in the sign band, uh To to get aligned with it and You know wondering Whether it's whether it's really the right thing to do because Uh, three of the other stores are not aligned and who knows when or if they will ever change their sign engine Be before us for us to to make that modification. So I'm a little bit torn on this one All right When I hold off on this for a minute in that ratio, you're correct.  Uh and select them please I do not see anybody's hand raised or anybody asking to Be unmuted To provide any comments Going once twice Three times. Okay. I will end public comment then Um, what do you guys want to do? Looking for a motion So I'm just gonna go. Um, actually I I have right now the um google Maps pulled up the 3d view and it it actually looks and again I'm only looking at the hair salon to the to the left It actually looks like at one point there was a sign banned Ken that does drop below that that stone cornice About the same height as what's being proposed That's kind of trimmed out in wood and again. I don't know if that was original or when that was when that was added um But it you know, it does suggest to me that at some point There was a precedent for this this sign ban being Roughly 36 inches as he's showing it now There's a little spot at the bottom the behind the the awning right now Yeah, that was an old sign that's important. Yeah, that's not in the package, but I you know There's a piece missing from the salon in the google earth Elevation which which does show that and it basically aligns with the top of the The the keystone that's in the arch between In the in the opening between the between the two retail Spaces So what does that suggest to you Rachel? So that would suggest to me that I would I would be supportive of keeping the 36 inches but again requiring that the actual signage itself be brought into the allowable Any wording or artwork to be brought within the allowable square footage Of the signage and again, that's just based on what I'm able to to see from what looks like More of the original framed out sign band Which does look like it may have dropped below that line of of of Stone or stucco that's between the brick courses I mean, I guess that's fine with me. I don't know why we have to live with the old sign band Okay, someone want to make a motion? Well, I'll I'll move to approve The application as submitted with the supplemental materials With the condition that The artwork be entirely brought within the allowable square footage I'll second that motion Okay, I'm going to do a roll call Rachel could you actually could you make your vote be about the docket number and the address please There you go. I'm new at this so I'm gonna Okay I'm trying to find it right now. It's three six three one four seventy three massive. I'll add that to the motion Okay, great. Thank you, Jean Rachel, how's your vote? Yes, David Yes Jean yes I also vote yes So congratulations fantastic. It's gonna look good. That's me It's gonna look good Thank you so much guys, okay You'll get something in the mail with the actual decision. All right, Eugene. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you so much. I feel good All right, I'm gonna be turned How you doing, uh, Katie Well, Kathleen Hey, I'm good. Sorry. I was late. There are some technical difficulties here But I'm delighted to be here and to get to meet you all virtually. Oh, thank you. Um, so I'm going to be turned back to Um, agenda number one. We're welcoming, uh, Kathleen Levine Einstein. Is that correct?   I'm okay with that David You have a different motion. You certainly can No, I I mean I have I have no objection to to Rachel. I I don't know whether anyone else wants to express interest I'm I'm happy to have Rachel do it Uh Catherine you're new to this but I'm going to include you. Uh, say do you have an opinion? No, I I'm happy to have Rachel be chair Uh, okay, so, um, does anybody want to second this second my nomination? I'll second Okay, um, David you vote Yes Catherine Yes Jean Yes I vote yes And Rachel Yes Okay, so with that said I'm going to hand the reins over to uh, Rachel and do you mind? uh going to Docket number three 363315 Massive public hearing and you can take over from there and I'm going to go back being the vice chair and just sit back Great. Thank you Congratulations, Rachel. Thank you very much. Please bear with me. Hello, madam chair Yes Can I please be admitted to the zoom video meeting? I um Was not admitted because I apparently am not an authorized person to make this a public hearing I should be able to be admitted So could you please do that? so There's no video to join her her audio so she's joining by phone She's not I would like to join by zoom. I do not consider joining by phone If you but I do I would like to make a statement on on the phone if I can't get on zoom. Yes, mrs Mrs. Whedon if if you click on the link on the ARB Web page on the town website for the zoom meeting. It brings you right to the meeting. There's no authorized or not authorized Anyone can click on that. Well, I did click on the link that was sent to me by the town of arlington I picked on that directly. Is that any different? That's the same link, but you'll need to log in to zoom and then it'll connect you to the meeting It's a it's a setting. It's a setting change in zoom and I that is new So, how do I get into the zoom meeting? Do I do it from the web page? Uh, what david just told you about going to the agenda and clicking on that on that link It will bring you into the meeting Even though it's the same apparent link. Is that right? It's it's the link that's in the meeting notice Yes, yeah, I have the meeting notice formally from the town of arlington But that is different. Is that what you're saying from the one on the web page? No, they're the same notice And that's the same link that you need to click and get into to come into the meeting. There's nothing different It's the same. I'm looking at the same notice So if I go into your web page, you can guarantee that I Will be able to enter the meeting. Is that right? I will hope that you can join the meeting Well, that's the link that you use If you're not certain, I will make that my statement already on the phone when you permit that If you are sure to unmute me At some point You may Rachel will call on people to make any statements during the public hearing and yes, you'll be unmuted at that time All right, if you're sure that I'll just stay on the phone at this point That may be advised but you can also try to log back in Okay Yes Okay Thank you So we'll now open the public hearing for special permit docket number 3633 to review the application for 1500 mass av Uh This is uh the application is by 1500 mass av llc and The applicant proposes to develop a new mixed juice building with four residential units and one commercial unit in a b1 neighborhood office district The opening of the special permit is to allow the board to review and approve the development under section 3.4 environmental design review So Jenny, do you have anything that you wanted to say about this before we open this up to the applicant? um Yes, thank you. Uh, first, I'll just refer the board to the memo that I prepared and point out a few items that I mentioned um had been updated on the website including A tree plan that had been reviewed and approved by the town's tree warden um And also a good neighbor agreement that the um, I believe the applicant Had sent to a butters uh per the town's bylaw. So those are two new items Um, and that was going to be one of my main one one two of my comments that I think are very important One is circulation which clearly needs to be addressed In this particular development that's proposed And the second big one is the tree plan. I think that um, the applicant needs to find a way to Abide by that tree plan or come up with an alternative that would have to be approved by the town's tree warden Because the tree plan shows a lot more trees needing to be planted than what we have in the submission And so that will need to clearly be resolved Um, those are my two two. I think of the the biggest issues that need to be discussed With regard to this application And I believe that the applicant is prepared to talk about those matters as well as Provide the board with an overview of the project proposal Thank you, rachel Great. Thank you, jenny So do we have the applicant with us? Uh, I see attorney innessy. We do. Yes I am here and with me Is monta french uh from the architectural team, Emily driscoe with him And darin danucci, who is the contractor developer? Now, uh, I'm sure that you've read all read my submission My exhibit a statement of intent particularly Which gives a background as far as the property itself is concerned The property consists of The lot actually consists of seven thousand two hundred and sixty five square feet We started out with six six thousand four hundred square feet but as After we closed on that six thousand four hundred square feet We discovered that there was a back lot Of three hundred and ninety one square feet That a prior owner of back property Had forgotten about Had conveyed property out But had never conveyed that three hundred and ninety one square feet to out So we negotiated with the owner of that property Actually, it was an estate because the owner had died and we acquired title to that as well Which brings our lot up to seven thousand 265 square feet You've already heard that we are proposing a three story Uh building basically for two bedroom units And I want to correct the record, uh on a couple of points We are not looking for retail space We are looking for office space And one of the reasons for that is that we think and by the way, we're in a b1 zone One of the reasons for that is that you have Plenty of retail space as you go further down in an easterly direction On mass ad because you come into aunt and heights The properties surrounding our property our site Basically consist of more commercial like properties such as Mal's auto body. There's a car wash There's a liquor store There's a CVS There's traded joes And again commercial type properties So we're proposing an office use at the property and not a retail use in addition I mentioned in my argument with regard to The 25 reduction in parking That I'd be relying on covered bicycle parking Bicycle parking on site And carpooling. Uh, well, we can't do carpooling We don't have enough room on the site I've spoken with my clients, uh, and we have agreed Among ourselves at least at this point That we would provide a shower In the commercial space Which would make The third prong In terms of the three prongs that you need Under the transportation management act Uh, the the other issue that will come up Will be surface water We can't really get into we've talked with the engineer on a very basic basis We can't really get into that until we get into the site And start digging at the site and see what we have at the site So whatever we're going to be doing in terms of the ARB Probably would have to be conditioned upon Are satisfying the town engineer with respect to The surface water aspect of the matter Now, I'm we're coming in with a plan that we have prepared And what we're suggesting to the members of the ARB Is it's a very complicated site If you look at the submission that I've given you I think it's on a tab 13 There's a photograph of the Property and basically, uh, it shows the significant Elevation with respect to The property in relation to The property out back if you look at that photograph and mark Just simply giving you an overview If you look at the property out back The elevation of the property out back is way above What we're going to be doing on our site But that photograph gives you an idea About the difficulty that we have in developing the site So we are looking for help From you members of the ARB. We're not coming in With a fade a complete We're coming in with plans which are a progress In development at this point And we're looking for your input with respect to how you think we might be able to Deal with the site the very difficult site In terms of coming up with a proposal that makes sense Now it's it's mixed use. It's in a b1 zone mixed use does apply in a b1 zone We are going to have The the mixed use component because we're going to have the office use In addition to the residential use And as you can see from our submission With respect to the dimensional forms We are proposing a A decent square feet for the office space We are open to discussions about that I believe the office space that we're proposing Essentially Is fairly substantial Given the the total square feet of the building We are Again amenable to Whatever the board might come up with In terms of suggestions as to how we might handle that office space The office space on the dimensional form Is misidentified as retail. It's really office and that shows up as 1,145 square feet The residential shows shows up as 4,244.9 square feet, but again We we need the residential there's no question about that We have to have the in order to make this project work and I've been through this before With the members of the ARB People need to understand not the members of the ARB they understand, okay But folks need to understand that if a project is going to work It has to work not only for the town But has to work economically for the developer as well Now I know that you folks are in receipt of a memo from town council With respect to your obligations and responsibilities In interpreting the standards under design environmental review And what he talked about in that memo Was the fact that you folks have the ability to grant relief, for example With respect to setbacks and with respect to open space So if we come up against issues Where we are dealing with open space and dealing with setback issues You do have the authority to deal with those issues Which prior boards may not have thought they had but you do have that ability In one of my prior hearings, I mentioned other sections of the environmental design review bylaw Where the language talks about The the ARB members being creative in terms of how they interpret the provisions of the bylaw But again, I'm not coming to you and saying to you This is a plan that we have to have what I am saying to you is That we need the residential component to make the plans work Now Monte is going to talk with you about how the Development would would look In terms of the plans that you have and the like Monte Why don't you jump in right now and I may come back and later after you make your presentation Monte Hello Thank you, Bob. Okay So currently the plans that you are looking at As Bob mentioned show the commercial space on the first floor With entrances on each side of what would be the residential entry The building is positioned in the site to be 25 feet back from the front yard Edge and that has to do a lot with setback requirements and open space requirements We also have bike storage Short-term bike storage out in the front yard Um, so that and then the circulation through the site is one way of vehicular traffic through the site Um, so it enters one side and exits the other side And parking is in parallel along the edges Uh, the site is going to require that we create a deep cut and as Bob mentioned There'll be some investigation that needs to go on with that in terms of drainage and other things We've looked at a lot of different scenarios, but of course we have not gone in great detail To a point that where we would want to hear what happens with this hearing before we move forward with anything The residential units up above are four units all of the same size two bed One bath units Um And then we also have the bike storage long-term bike storage at the rear of the the building along with Mechanical space and trash room is stored inside the building and I know that Before Jenny mentioned the tree plan that was approved That tree plan Will be reflected in the plans. I think that what got approved by the warden was came after we had submitted these plans We can of course update that plan to reflect whatever was approved and make sure that that coincides Um, and then I think the other thing that jenny mentioned was the circulation plan so I guess If we could try and talk a little bit more about that what your concern was with that jenny Okay before we get to that monta let's talk about A couple of the challenges as far as the site itself is concerned The difference in elevation between the site and the properties around it. We know we have A two building Apartment building on the left hand side We have a restaurant on the right hand side We have a residential building behind But i'm given to understand that when our building is constructed to three levels as we propose That even with that, okay That should not have a real significant impact on the property behind the building. Is that fair to say? in what aspect are you well from the point of view of Shattering from the point of view of a blocking sunlight from that point of view Absolutely not The the sight lines because our building even the roof of it is substantially lower Then the building to the rear of us doesn't affect sight lines or shadow or Any any sort of obstruction in that in that regard But i'd like to chime in on that point My name is andreas kellis. I'm the owner of the property directly behind the building at 15 woodbury street Jenny is that Ask you to hold your comments for the public comment period. We will absolutely make sure that your opinion and and What you'd like to share is heard. Okay. Thank you very much All right, you were saying wanty yeah, uh, just to reiterate that the height of our building is Substantially lower than the height of the building to the rear the house to the rear So it doesn't have any sort of shadow obstruction or sight line obstruction And how about the apartment buildings to the left hand side of the property? At monta in terms of their height As compared with the height of our proposed building That that building is higher than our building Just by virtue of grade they have an uphill grade into their parking lot and then of course their building is higher So of course, we don't cast shadow on their building our footprint is pretty small Now i've noticed in looking at the plans and discussing the plans with you monta That we have a 25 foot setback from mass app from the sidewalk Is that because we want to Introduce more greenery to the site Yeah, I that that was in an effort to achieve the open space requirement Okay, all right, and are there any other aspects of the proposed construction That uh, you want to comment on monta? uh, some of the other things that we went through and I think are in the package are We did locate the signage that would be on the site and sized it according to the regulations um I think that a lot of the things that we addressed in here in this package We're trying to get at the ordinance and make sure that we meet the spirit of the ordinance Okay, we're gonna have traffic one way is that correct in and out Yeah, as I mentioned before the traffic enters in one side and exits the other side and all parking is in parallel Okay, and how about parking? Where is the parking going to be on the site? It's in parallel to the drive lane along the sides of the drive lane On the side parking spaces on the side uh, five Okay, so there's two on one side and three along the rear All right, okay And uh, we need a total of how many parking spaces? Six correct Six correct. All right, so we'll be asking for uh relief from the members of the ARB With respect to one parking space. Is that correct? Correct. All right, okay Is there anything else that you want to add with respect to the plans before? We hear from the members of the ARB with uh, with respect to their comments and I do want to get into the Circulation issue that Jenny raised in her summary as uh, as well. I think that's pretty important at this point Uh, but is there anything else you want to raise before that happens? Uh, not at this time. All right That's what I'd like to say at this point Great. Thank you very much We'll open it up to members of the ARB for comments. Uh, kin, would you like to start us off? Sure Monty and robert, thank you for um a fairly complete presentation It's been a long time since we've seen something this complete and I'm very supportive of the project or I have several issues. I need to talk to you about Okay, uh one is The program which you have right now you have a ground floor office with four four units above on the second and third floor Uh, and that's four units according to state code once you go over three units and um You need to get a handicap access unless I am wrong with that. Do you You find an exception to that Monty that I don't know about? No, uh, that is something that we can address either through um Adding a an accessible unit on the ground floor take part of the commercial space and create an accessible unit I think part of what we looked at in the beginning and discussing this was that There is some precedent for other projects that have been completed in Arlington that don't have this and that It is something that you can go to the ADA board and ask and ask for relief um, but if you prefer that we don't do that we can Certainly add an accessible unit on the ground floor to achieve that Okay, so that's I would prefer adding another unit um On the ground floor I'm not sure what my other board members think about that just so we have a handicapped unit on the ground floor um and then The other thing is Since you only have one means of egress a stairway there I'm assuming the building is spring sprinkler um Using that exception and a cold for that You don't seem to show a sprinkler room anywhere on the plans Well, we Yes, the building will need to be sprinkled uh, and of course we haven't Gone that deep into the plan yet because we wanted to get through this process But we have dedicated a utility room And some back at the house space where things will need to be located You know once we get into the coordination process with the engineers and such We'll certainly locate those items In the past I found that you might have better luck with the fire department if you put it off on the bottom of the stairs Uh, so when you first come in Um, you uh, you right now you have a choice of just going up But if you put it a couple of steps going down and and tuck the the water room right Below the landing and underneath there. You might be better off, but it changes the architecture a little bit that's why I'm saying this instead of having a A public access and a back for the fireman. It's actually in the front So that might change the way you look at how you design this building Yeah, it's a great idea. We actually on the upper floors have if you see look at the upper floors We have a shaft Yes, I see that That is adjacent to the stairwell that we can easily use that to get up into the upper floors Okay, well with that said that issue there and then my other issue is um, your tube curb cuts Is there a is when you guys laid this out? Was there a way of Combining these curb cuts so you only have one? Way into the site. It's a very small site and it's it's it's fairly close to the corner of this of mass av here and if you can move the The driveway combine it Away from the the restaurant and then not have a curb cut there and move the building over a little more I'd be supportive of that too, but I want to hear what you guys Why you guys decided to go the way you went? I think it just has to do with the logistics of trying to get parking and vehicular circulation and you know I think the thing that gets in the way is um Being able to maneuver on a site that has two-way access on one curb cut Sometimes that is what creates the issue when you have one-way circulation through the site and parallel parking There's very little need for maneuvering of parking Yeah, that's that's it. So I I think It'd be better if we only had one curb cut and having that curb cut that's closer to the corner be eliminated And and getting more space in the back for you I would only always suggest that moving the building forward right now. You have 25 feet. It's set back 25 feet the board has the ability to Give you some relief on that and not have 25 feet set back for the building And pull it forward some more it would actually give a better shot Of of the office space They're having more life I mean you're tucking it 25 feet back and it's it's it's also behind a little four foot Shadowed canopy there Or what do you call that paved area the lozier? I mean that's that's that's that's not very welcoming It's never I don't see very many people public want to go there. I think if we want to really stress Mixed use we should get it closer to the street closer to the to the sidewalk And activate the sidewalk is what we're trying to do along mass air. That's one of the plans And I'm not sure what the other board members think, but I'm okay. We're waving that 25 feet For green space and getting a little shallower. I'm not saying the square footage change. It's just the dimensional change And bringing the building closer To the to the sidewalk I'll listen to what my other board members think but I think that following the building closer We'll give you more room the back for maneuvering getting the curb cut away from the corner having Having not get rid of the one way and just have a two-way access Because we're only talking a few cars here. It's not like It's a supermarket or anything. It's not that much traffic. That's going down this driveway I think we should look at that a little bit more I'm just going to leave it at that for now I really like what you've done with the outside of the building. I think it looks nice. It's a good relief that uh, you know An architect has looked at this and actually drew something up that looks That fits in the neighborhood I'm done, Rachel. Great. Thank you Ken. Uh gene Thank you. Um I'm just making a note I have lots of questions a couple for bob initially bob um I was a little bit confused about The square footage of the lot Because as I saw the main lot was six thousand four hundred square feet three thousand two hundred three thousand two hundred that at one time was combined to six thousand four hundred And that's what the property cards show And then there's you just purchased the little sliver and back Which is three hundred ninety one And my math gets that up Six thousand seven hundred ninety one Not seven thousand two hundred sixty five So can you explain Why i'm wrong and why you're right? Yeah, I can we have a survey plan We actually had the property surveyed And when the surveyor went out there and surveyed the property and we have a deed by the way With respect to the initial survey With respect to the six thousand four hundred square feet We then uh We had the surveyor go out there again Once we acquired the extra land, okay And if you look at you, I think you have the survey plan there It was hard to reason it was very fuzzy Yeah But we do know It does come out to what the survey plan does show, okay And the survey plan does show That we have the seven thousand I don't have it. I can't see it myself at this point, but it's set forth on the dimensional form. Okay the seven thousand 265 find it here. Monti. Do you have it? It's seven thousand two sixty five. Yeah Awesome minds, so we have a survey that shows that Well, I couldn't read the one plot plan because all of the lettering was pretty fuzzy So I think if you could submit a clearer copy, we will do that Absolutely, Boston survey a very reputable company did the survey so we're relying on that All right, that would be second second is about the gross War area of the first floor of the building Your numbers came out different than mine you came out one thousand two hundred eighty seven point eight But when I did the math Which was um 32 by 48 I came out with one thousand five hundred thirty six So can you explain the discrepancy in the gross square footage on the first floor? Monti, can you address that? Um The gross square footage of the first floor I'd have to go back and look at it. Um gene. I can probably get you information after this. Um, I think We excluded the rear spaces such as uh trash and utility You can't do that the code requires it to be from wall to wall on all four sides, so your Um submission says one thousand two hundred eighty nine point eight on the first floor, but if you do the math, um, which is um Um 32 by 48 you come up with 15 36, so I'd like you to take a look at that Okay, and not exclude trash Take a look at the definition in the zoning bylaw of gross Floor area, please We will do that mr. Benson. Thank you. Um next question um I have is about the parking As I looked at it and maybe It's a little bit hard for me to envision it when the cars pull in parallel. They're going to be against Concrete walls So it's unclear to me how the right side doors Will be opening unless the car unless I'm misunderstanding What's going on there or the cars are going to be more out Into the driveway, so can you talk a little bit about The ability to park those cars not in the driveway and be able to open the right side doors Monte Yeah, I mean we'll have to take a look at it. I mean we did size the spaces according to The space requirements, um the logistics of door opening and things like that I think are Things that we'll have to drill down into and if we need to nudge things here and there we can um I think it's probably no different than A parking lot where you have cars parallel to each other and trying to get a door open next to another car But we can certainly Take a much closer look at that. Yeah, I think that would be helpful. I couldn't quite understand that Next about the parking and the Uh transportation demand management plan I have a very different understanding Then you've described bob and I can't understand How a shower in the commercial space will meet that because The parking is for the residents the parking is not required for the commercial space The parking is required for the residents So to have A shower in the commercial space Doesn't really help Toward that similarly you're required to have a bicycle parking anyhow So bicycle parking doesn't really help Toward it either so I don't really see how you're going to come up with a A traffic transportation demand management plan For the residents Of the building what you have is five parking spaces That the owner is going to have to allocate To four two bedroom units, and I think there are a lot of ways To do that. I don't think that transportation demand Management plan gets you There at all Similarly to some of the other things that you had mentioned In the narrative about other people using those parking spaces Like people who came to the building or or other things those spaces are required because of the number of Residential units in the building so they have to be reserved For as I see it for those residential units So we do have one way and I would like My colleagues on the board to consider this We do have one way that gives us authority to reduce The number of parking spaces that doesn't require A transportation demand management plan and that's if there's an affordable unit In the building and so I think one possibility To get one fewer space five rather than six Is to have an affordable unit In the building I can I comment on that change? Yes, please. I stopped I don't think we can do an affordable unit economically to have it make sense. We are Going to very seriously consider kin's suggestion With respect to an accessible unit And in order to do that We need to have the four two two bedrooms. Okay To make this site work for us in terms of what we have to put into it We're going to have site costs that are going to be very significant Because of what you've seen from the photograph and what you can see from the plans. Okay So I don't really believe that we can do an affordable unit I do think we can do an accessible unit And we may have to do something with that office unit on the first floor And perhaps we carve out of that office unit on the first floor A studio or a one bedroom instead of a two bedroom Which again, we don't we would prefer not to do But we would do that if if that was something we had to do. Okay So I think that's something we can certainly look at But I just don't want to create the impression That we can do an affordable unit here I don't think the numbers and Darren to newt you the developer Is on this session And he can jump in if he wants to but I just don't think that Doing an affordable unit would allow us to do this development the way we'd like to do it Well, it's one way for you to get Approval for five rather than six parking spaces Let me just say something about putting a unit on the first floor I'm concerned that the amount of well you say retail And no, it's not retail. It's going to be office. I understand that you said that and in your narrative You said that we had suggested retail, which is obviously incorrect But I don't know that that's enough space To be viable and I'd be very interested in seeing some sort of market analysis That shows that 974.8 square feet of office space Is going to be rentable In in Arlington. I'm just concerned. I'm just concerned That you're going to end up with vacant space On the first floor And the apartments above so I'm very interested in seeing a market analysis That the space Actually can be rented out I had an office as a lawyer in East Allington for many many years Jean With much less than that in terms of square feet And somehow I survived and somehow I attracted clients So I'm happy to look at it. We will look at it. We will look at it Next thing have next thing is the balconies So under 5.3 0.9 of Ronin bylaw projections into minimum yards On the left side The balcony which is approximately 43 square feet Would be projecting too much into the left side Yard on both of the balconies. I'd like you to take a look at that And See what can be done about that. Yep. If anything um I'd like to just add to what Jennifer rate said the the obligation that was made to the Tree warden was eight trees I think it was at least two and a half caliber That were native that would grow to at least 50 feet so um, I agree that unless You can get some relief From the tree warden Um, we would need to see a proposal that incorporates The promise that the developer made to the tree warden When he took down the other trees We can do that as well You know, we we understand gene that uh, whatever we're going to do Uh a condition subsequent to uh, what happens here is going to be what you folks suggest we do in terms of uh trees in terms of Greenery in terms of things of that nature. And that's the reason I said at the opening That we're here For your advice your suggestions in terms of what we might be able to do To make this site a viable site. We need to keep in mind That there was a dilapidated building on that site And that we are we are certainly improving The appearance of what was what is going to be on that site at this point But again, we need to work within the confines of the bylaw And work within the confines of the authority you folks have on the arv and I agree with uh Can allow about thinking about pulling the building a little bit closer to the street The setback under the bylaw is 20 feet not 25 So I think at a minimum You might think about pulling the building five feet closer To the front lot line and figure out what that would do with your open space. I haven't um We'd have to look at that in conjunction with the memo of dugime Where he talks about the fact that you folks on the arv Do have the ability to Basically modify The setbacks, okay, but we'll look at that as well. Yeah. Well, I think the starting point for me bob before I modify is to Understand why you can't deal with the existing setbacks, right? We're we're going to note take note of all your suggestions at this point. Um So the retail or commercial space Is listed as 974.8 But I think you said something over a thousand. Can you explain the discrepancy? Again, I'd have to defer to monta on that Yeah, I Again, I think that this is something where we have to get in and you know I know that there's things that have been submitted at different points in time. So maybe we need to catch up with Um, this might be a slightly outdated plan Okay They there was talk about a retaining wall and back stepped back 18 foot wall I I didn't see any drawing of that or representation of what that would look like. Can you explain? Yeah, I mean that That is an ongoing Exploration, uh, we have been communicating with the rear butter and other Engineers as to what we need to do. We haven't again We've been waiting for this meeting to be able to get into it fully But there will need to be a retaining wall system there and we will have to work with The butters to do it Yeah, I noticed that the retaining wall in back and you can see it in one of your photos All right without taking a look today Has some trees that probably longtime volunteers growing on top And my guess is that the roots of the larger of the 304 trees there had cracked On the retaining wall Already, so I do think you're going to have to come up with something on the back on the left side There are trees that are on right next to the retaining wall and I wondered if You intended to do anything with that wall because if you did you were probably going to undermine the trees on the left side You know, we'll certainly need to look at that. I'm that is a situation always when you have trees that are Either right on or very near property lines and kind of mitigating that situation So when I went and looked at the site today, it was clear that the site Grades up So from mass as it goes uphill Toward the back and you didn't provide any elevations things like that Indicating what you would do whether you're going to take out enough soil on the site so it would be flat and Or whether it's going to continue to braid up help and you talk a little bit about what Darren are you on? Darren Hello I guess he's not there. All right Monta can you address that if not? Yeah, so Yes This particular image is a good image to show It is being cut through the the site will be cut back and down To be virtually level I will have to have some slope for drainage Then across the back and the sides will have to have a retaining system It's been discussed as being either a modular block system or system that is more of a Kind of a concrete Molded method. There's a couple different methods, but again We haven't been able to get into the technicalities of that until we get through this process More images on presentation that show sections through this so for But your intention is that it will be pretty much level with mass have maybe very slightly going on correct Okay So that's the other way. I'm sorry for interrupting Jenny can you go to the other side edge of that page another previous page? and go Yeah, you can see how just to the right of the old building There's a stone a stone retaining wall and it's significantly higher And mass have at that point. So your intention is to basically take that down. I understand Which retaining wall the one to the right of the driveway in the old building That photo that's on the screen Okay, I think the one that's to the right in the rear or on the side. No in front. This is a good photo to show Yeah, some of that will need to come down. Yes. Yeah. So this is also a good photo because there's a a gas pipeline vent Over there and this doesn't this is at an angle that doesn't quite show it But it's really a little bit closer To the right and it looked to me Like it would either be within the driveway You're proposing or very close to it And I wondered if you have taken that into consideration if you talk to the gas company about about No, I We certainly haven't gone down that road again. That is an issue jean that I did discuss with the Developer and we'll get back on that. Okay. There there are ongoing discussions on that as a matter of fact Okay, because he has something I think is going to have to he's going to need to be done about that are the are the um The air handling system, etc. I'm going to be on the roof of the building because you don't show that Most likely yes So I think an issue I would be interested in is how you're going to be screaming not only from mess and but also from the side in the back of others So obviously something you're gonna have to deal with. I just wanted to Ask about that now Um Let me see if there's anything else I'm just curious whether you intend to have A laundry in the building anywhere or individual laundries into the apartments Most likely we'll have laundry in the units. Yes. Okay Okay, I think that's it for now. Thank you Thank you jean, uh david Thanks, rachel My colleagues have highlighted most of the issues that Had caught my attention so Um, I I've got at least one question I don't think has been asked and then I just want to reiterate some things that I think are particularly important to continue to look at um I didn't see any indication of whether there's an intention to have any mechanical systems on the roof martin Yeah, I again that the the mechanical systems haven't been designed yet. Um more than likely they'll need to be a Condenser somewhere But I think the intention would be to have many splits in the units So no big error handler or anything like that up on the roof Okay, and my reason for asking is I I don't have a really good sense of how This building will relate to the A butter to the rear And I I understand that there needs to be a substantial retaining structure back there, um, but um at some point in the process and perhaps we're not there yet, but But soon I would like to see some kind of an elevation That gives us a better idea of both what that retaining structure is going to look like and exactly how This proposed building would relate to the existing abutting building I'm sorry, uh, mr. Watkins the elevations that we come up with will Also show you the surrounding buildings our building in relation to the surrounding buildings. We'll have that for you Yeah, I appreciate that And uh You know, that will also help understand to the extent there are any mechanical systems on the roof How that might impact the abutters, uh, given the substantial difference in in grade Between those lots I uh am also, uh, as others have mentioned concerned about the tree plan and, uh Right now, uh, you know barring any relief that you might seek from the tree warden um We're going to need to see a landscape plan that complies with with the tree plan And we'll have there there was, uh, you know, I recognize that the property the The old property was uh Was not well maintained and the landscaping there was was not Well maintained, but it was a mature tree canopy and, uh, I, uh Regret that that has been removed and and would like to see it replaced to the extent possible Um With respect to the circulation, uh, I share, uh The concern that, uh, it's it's very tight As as shown on the plan I'm actually a little bit concerned, uh, that it's so tight that Uh, turning radius at the back around the corners of the building might be an issue depending on the size of the vehicle Uh, so, uh I think we need to look much more carefully at that and perhaps kin suggestion of of consolidating The two curb cuts into a single entrance and exit Might might help you alleviate that problem as well as uh thinking about what gene suggested, uh, which is pulling the building forward Although of course we we don't know off the top of our heads what that would do to your open space calculation Yeah, that if I could, um It would violate the open space requirement The position of the building right now is In an effort to achieve the open space So if we did move it forward And also off to the left so that we can get, uh A two car width, uh curb cut On one side that would violate Setbacks on the side side wall or side yard and also at the front and also violate the Open space to some degree Because if we were trying to get parking in the rear with both access on the Access into the site and out of the site on the side of the building Along with the parking at the rear hand maneuvering space. We would lose the ability to have open space Okay, I mean, I think, uh, we'd like to Have you explore some some ideas And if we see, uh What impact alternatives might have on the open space that would allow us to Make a decision as to whether Granting some form of relief might be appropriate in this case um You know, I think the ultimate goal here is is to have the best the best project, uh That uh that we can and, um You know, we we try to be uh We try to be, um Flexible where we can be to accomplish that So I don't think anything else that hasn't really been covered um Go ahead I'm sorry to interrupt if I could um So I think I just want to make sure that we really take a good Look at this with all the comments. There's a lot of great comments here um If we look at moving the building forward and over to one side so that we can get a double curb cut I think You know by my understanding if we have a 10 foot side yard set back to on the left side here as we look at this plan And we shift everything over. I think it does allow us to get Two cars in and out Along one side away from the restaurant side And then the question is going to be how far forward we can move the building to be able to get Parking in the rear along with maneuvering and typically for parking depths and maneuvering depths you need about 40 feet So if we have a double drive lane of 24 feet and then 20 feet depth of parking I think we can get some of this open space But I I know that we've looked at this in the past and there it might be a little bit under some I guess what i'm trying to ask is What are the trigger points for you guys or things that you don't think that you would be willing to kind of Uh, I guess ease up on is it do we really need to stick close to the open space or is there some negotiation process there? Can I jump in here? Mr. Orkin? I think maybe what i'm hearing and correct me if i'm wrong Is that they would like to see our next iteration And once they see that okay, they're going to be in a better position to see What they think they can or cannot do in terms of granting relief Monta and i Incorrect in concluding that uh, mr. Orkins David Yes I'm incorrect No, okay. I'm incorrect No, you're you are correct. Okay. Good. All right. So monta. I think what I do is we do our homework We need to do our homework. That's what we need to do. Richard, can I step in for a minute? Markin um The answer your question uh, as far as i'm concerned monti is If you try your best not to reduce the amount the square footage But just the dimensional requirements is a good start You understand, you know how there's a dimensional requirement in order to account for what that is for open space It we're willing to um to give a relief on that dimensional requirement But let's start off with just having the same square footage And see we go from there That's that's exactly what I was I guess trying to get at. Yes, and that's why I just want to make sure it's clear That you know, there's good reasons. I don't think we want to do it without good reasons I think this is a unique site And the fact that you still maintain the square footage of open space Just the dimensional requirements have changed a little bit. Let's not make it such that it's like a one to three ratio Ratio, but you know, it's something that I think you have We have a good eye on just trying to say hey, this is what we think and we can go we can talk from there Okay, that's Sorry go ahead So the the last thing I wanted to talk a little bit More about is the first floor and You know, I I share Jean's concern that it's It's not a lot of space and one of the common Complaints we hear about existing space in Arlington is that it's it's too small the existing commercial spaces So I I have some I have some concern about that as it's shown on the plan And now we're talking about potentially in order to meet accessibility requirements reducing that further to add an accessible unit And you know at that point I'm I'm beginning to To question whether we're really meeting The intention of the mixed use by law Even though I I do think you know in in a theoretical sense it would it would be A benefit to have an accessible unit And with respect to the parking reduction I I like Jean's Creative suggestion of adding an affordable unit. I know that's challenging in building this size and you're not otherwise required to have an affordable unit, but Um affordability is is One of the top housing issues that that we're dealing with not not just in Arlington, but the region So if there were a way To somehow make that happen that would solve your parking problem and would Help us meet our our goals of having more affordable housing here and I I recognize that's a big ask and very complicated In a project of this size, but I thought it was an interesting suggestion to think about That's all I have for the moment Thank you, David. Catherine I thank you so I Really like this plan. I think it brings a lot to a neighborhood I live quite close to this project and I'm really enthusiastic about something like this coming into the neighborhood and so um, my comments are really to sort of emphasize some of the points that other board members have raised that are things that I think either you all should think about Poor things that I just strongly support that are already in the project or things you're already thinking about So first I really like the idea of can raise this of bringing it closer to the sidewalk I think it just knowing that particular stretch. It improves sort of the feeling of walkability The feeling of making it more vibrant. Um, and so I think that's definitely something that I would support I like the idea of adding another accessible Unit in the first floor area. That's something that's feasible More housing is helpful in that area and consistent with some town priorities around having more housing Especially accessible housing um, and finally if it is possible, I do also support having a Just a single driveway rather than the two curb cuts that you currently have Again, thinking about sort of the town's priorities around pedestrian safety and improved walkability Having fewer places where cars are coming in and out seems preferable from a pedestrian perspective And I think consistent with town priorities But thank you Great. Thank you, Katherine um with that I I just Want to echo um, what my colleagues identified as well. I don't think I have anything additional to add I think it was a very thorough review. I do have a list of all of the items that they've asked to be examined before before The next the next time we we meet as it sounds like this will most likely Be continued to another hearing. So I'll go through those after we open this up for public comment So unless there's any other comment from the board Go ahead jean. I had one thing I forgot Having to do with the driveways and maybe this will be resolved if there's a single driveway or not, but I didn't understand where the snow would get piled up during snow storms Um, there doesn't seem to be any space That would be available really to do that and clearly can't shovel the snow out or plow the snow out on Onto a mass ad. So I think whether it's this design Or another design you come back with you'll need to identify Some way to deal with the snow Let's thank you. Excellent. Thank you. Give that thought jean between now and that's to me to that same end uh, or in that same vein. I think looking also at the planting strip that Currently the the buffer strip that we can reduce to five feet that's in the rear of the site along the retaining wall You know to the question about opening doors And how that would work against the large retaining wall just when you're looking at that view from the street and that Very large retaining wall having a planting buffer zone to soften this Might actually be something that you know, you look at as well no matter how you reconfigure the parking Yep. Yes. Great. Anything else from the board members? Rachel. I had one more question Trash removal How are you thinking that would be accomplished with the trash room at the back of the property? uh, most Most likely it would have to be a private trash service that's brought out So you think you know bins wheeled out to the curb is what you're thinking Uh, either wheeled out to the curb or if it's a private service they would come get them Well, I I ask because again With the circulation perhaps being tight Around the building if you're thinking about large vehicles like a garbage truck Going in there That that could be an issue I'm definitely talking there now. Yeah, as you come down Massav Dave David on the other side of Duncan Donuts You'll see big barrels out on the sidewalk and that's how they do it as a matter of fact So we probably do the same thing I I understand i'm i'm not sure uh How preferable that is uh in you know, primarily residential building but Those are residential buildings where the barrels are by the way. Yep. Yeah Great. Thank you very much um, so I think at at this point, um, I'm gonna open this up to public comments um, so um as the public Wishes to comment on this Docket item and ask you to please use the raise hand function. Um, which is found in the participant list um, and we will um You will be allowed three minutes. Um, Jenny will be running a timer. So, um, please try and complete your Thoughts within three minutes. Please note that um, each comment will not be addressed directly by the applicant following your comments We'll address them at the end unless there are specific points of clarification that are required Um, additionally, please remember to state your name and address as you start your comment period And rachel just a reminder. We may have some people on the phone who can't raise their hand Thank you. And if you that's right, so I will call on those who do have their hands raised. Um, miss warden I do know that Uh, you are are also looking to speak and if anyone else Who is uh joining us via phone and not via web, um, please let me know As we complete the those who have raised their hand Okay, so I will start with um Hi, thank you. Um, yeah, my name's andreus kellis. I'm the resident at 15 woodbury street directly behind this property And I have several concerns that I wanted to articulate first of all I want to state, you know, I'm happy that the building is was torn down and is being uh redone So I think that point was made initially, but I do have some significant concerns. I wanted to bring up The first is the tree removal plan. So, um, I actually contacted this developer at the time of the demolition Because I noticed that um, there was a very large Evergreen, I think it was over 20 caliper that was removed. Um, you guys probably have seen that from masav There were also several maples directly on the property line on the north side of the property that were removed And uh, when I looked at the tree plan It actually only shows the removal of eight trees all on the west side of the property So none of these trees seem to be represented in the tree removal plan Which concerns me fundamentally We lost a lot of cover to masav by the removal of those maple trees and the the large evergreen I did contact the tree warden But it's very unclear about why there's a discrepancy between and satellite photos We'll show those trees. So I've I've sent those as well of the tree warden. So I'm fundamentally concerned about that And the plans that are shown don't seem to show the replacement of any trees to the you know of Not only the size of the eight original trees But the the other maple trees on the north side that were removed or the very large evergreen that was removed I'm fundamentally concerned about the grade of this property As has been mentioned it steeply graded the existing property that was there prior that was demolished Had a garage at the level of masav, but then the rear of the property was actually much higher And with the plan that presented the removal of of dirt that would be need that would need need to be done To get everything the masav level would result in a very very large increase in the height of the retaining wall So that's going to be a precipitous drop That's going to be there that is not currently there because of the grade that was pre-existing So i'm very concerned about that The height of the building which was mentioned being lower than our building Is correct, but I don't have an elevation plan so I can't confirm that But I want to say that the removal of the maple trees all at the rear of the property have now completely exposed What was previously shaded and was covered up and we couldn't see the building that was pre-existing So i'm very disappointed with that and it doesn't again seem to be on the tree plan In general, I have a concern that this Replacement of a two-unit building residential building with a four-unit building along with commercial is overly ambitious for the size of the lot That really we're trying to squeeze in six units of six vehicles of parking Um a much larger building a lot of grading and removal of trees. It cannot be replaced at this point. I don't believe Thank you for your comments Let's see next we have uh barbra thorton Thank you very much. I I will try and be real fast here. I am Delighted to see housing coming into arlington I would love to have you have some affordable housing units, but I am 100 in favor of this project I do have a couple of questions. One is why you haven't gone up four stories and instead of just three and two Why you're worrying about putting a office space or a commercial space on the first floor And not make it two affordable two accessible units I think arlington very much needs A commercial space, but I don't think that one unit that you're offering is going to make a big difference in our tax base. So Those are my questions Thank you miss sorton Let's see next we have uh don selzer Before I begin I would like to ask the chair for the courtesy of having speaker view shown rather than this uh countdown clock Uh, we stated before we started that we would be running a countdown clock for those people who were so that they understood In the left the applicants is asking to build a four unit apartment building in a b1 district We have a zoning bylaw and a table allowable uses Four unit apartment buildings are simply not allowed in a b1 district Three units would be fine, but four is not To allow this exception would set a precedent and this board could expect to receive Many future applications for similar exceptions to the table of uses Mr. Inessia already has one lined up for another apartment building in a b1 zone He will undoubtedly argue that it is capricious and arbitrary to allow one exception and not others Some members of the sport have the impression that the town council Has issued a legal opinion stating that mixed use means that any two uses can be placed in any district That is not correct I've asked dug heim and he has told me that he has not issued any legal finding He attributes this misunderstanding to correspondence with a resident in which he offered some informal views To put it in his exact words. It was only the genesis of an informal opinion We do however have the official opinions of those who helped write the bylaw In 2016 they stood before the assembled town meeting and explained that only those uses that were already allowed in a district Would be allowed under mixed use. It was clear It was unequivocal with both the inspectional services The head of inspectional services as well as town council on the wording that's before you And only the uses that are permitted in a particular District are the ones that can happen in a mixed use in that district So just to clarify on that point any use that comes into a neighborhood has to Has to comply with what's already permitted in that and shall play and again It has to fit within the permitted use a parking garage won't be permitted in there before parking garages are permitted A residential on top of the gas station won't be permitted if that use is not already permitted It has to fit what's already allowed under zoning Before unit apartment building is not allowed in a b1 district. It's that simple. Thank you Thank you. Mr. Pilzer. Uh, the next person to speak is Steve revelak Hello, madam chair. This is Steve revelak. I live at 111 sunny side avenue I just wanted to say that I think this is a nice project and I am okay with it Uh, particularly I like the residential component. We're looking at the possibility of four new homes. Perhaps five if there's an accessible Uh, accessible unit on the first floor Uh, these are homes that people will live in And I believe that the residents that, you know, could eventually occupy them will be rather grateful for having a nice place to live So I I realize there's more work to do and I encourage the board to work with the applicant so that this can go forward And um, yeah, this is exciting and I hope that we can see more projects like this along mass av and broadway. Thank you Mr. Black Patricia warden, I believe that you are On the phone Ms. Warden I think she's muted Hello, can you hear me? You can now. Thank you Okay, um, thank you. Patricia warden 27th jason street Since the time allowed for tonight's hearing It's very short. I have written remarks which are already submitted and asked that they be written Um, but they be included in my testimony to explain my abbreviated comments here, which are as follows um, the product at 1,500 mass trusses avenue Violates the theory by law so badly that it should never have been considered Tonight's hearing is a demonstration of the ineffectiveness of the planning department and the director Of economic development the proposal needs the proponent needs to present an economic analysis There are several points I should make first and foremost A four unit apartment building is simply not allowed in a b1 district Whether it makes juice or not Secondly the college has a record a recognized need for affordable residential units. This project has none zero 30 the project um, if Approved would encourage um, wanton destruction of property trees And landscape in anticipation of being awarded um an approved Permit project for an illegal project um So other details I have sent to already but you have No commission apparently no committed talent for your commercial area Then that makes it likely that the entire building would become could become residential because of a loophole in our zoning bylaw which should be corrective But uh, and I also want to point out that there are definite safety dangers with your curb cars And thank you Thank you miss warden Uh, mr. Loretty chrystal ready Madam chairman, can you hear me? Yes, please. Hello. Yes, please go ahead. Thank you. Madam chairman chrystal already 56 Adams street um And I guess I want to start by saying a bit disappointed in the understanding the board has shown in our linkedin zoning bylaw and indeed even in the um legal notice itself it talks about issuing a permit under section 3.4 of the zoning bylaw But you've you've neglected that you have to issue permit a special permit under section 3.3 And the very first decision criteria under that section is that the use requested is listed as a special permit use in the regulations for the applicable district And clearly you haven't met that criterion with the Use of a an apartment house which or apartment building which is not allowed in the b1 district You also haven't met section 3.3 point 3 f And that is the requested use will not impair the integrity or character of the district It's important to remember that the b1 zoning district is the district created from one in two family homes They happen to be located on mass af and many of them had office uses in them They can exist as one or two family homes. They can exist as as offices But to allow a four unit building With a another use in it like an office use clearly is not in keeping with the character of the zoning district That is the b1 district. And so I really don't see how you can Allow, you know, such a use in this district when it is so out of character I want to say I appreciate the applicants Understanding the zoning by-law and in particular particularly as it relates to open space. They very clearly Left that 25 foot yard in front because that is required to meet the definition of usable open space Once you start reducing that I don't see how you can comply with the zoning by-law requirements Now I am well aware of town council's memo and his suggestion that you can supplant the authority of the Zoning board of appeals and issue variances and frankly, I don't think there's any legal basis for that I don't think it'll stand up in court And so I want to I want to end with a question and As you know, a lot of your butters to hotel lexington Were you engaged in this sort of similar sort of lawlessness? I will call it Objected to the way you handle that And I I understand there could be an appeal and I'm wondering if there has been a has been an appeal Or if there is one and then the court strikes down Your allowance for uses that are not allowed it strikes down your granting of variances on the dimension requirements Then what happens in a case like this? Are you going to go back and then withdraw the special permit? So I think you at a minimum have to wait To see what happens with that special permit for hotel lexington if indeed it is appealed. Thank you Thank you, mr. Moretti There anyone else who wishes to render any public comment for this particular docket number tonight All right seeing none. I will close public comments And uh reopen this to the members of the of the board Any further comments? I do have a list of the requests that have been made of the applicant prior to Continuing to another hearing But wanted to see if anyone else had any comments before we discuss or hear a motion to continue Great, I'll just run through my list and please jump in and if I have missed any of the major points I just tried to catch the highlights here Um, so we have a relook at the circulation slash parking configuration Including the curb cuts and turning radius on the site A review of the gross square footage calculation specifically on the first floor Looking at pushing the building forward a minimum of five feet Looking at potentially including an accessible unit on the first floor or otherwise addressing accessibility if the property is to contain four units Looking at a market analysis for how to use the office space and whether addressing rentability Looking at the balcony projections into the side yard Um relooking at the eight trees that have been identified by the tree warden and whether or not There are actually potentially more on the site that have been already removed and addressing a plan Uh for how to accommodate the tree warden's uh requirements Looking at at the air handling unit screening on the roof from the abutters Details of the retaining structure and the relationship of the abutters As well as the surrounding buildings to the proposed new structure And addressing snow removal and trash removal on the site Are there any other major items for my colleagues that I Location of the sprinkler room sprinkler room and there are all of the dimensional Issues I raised that they're going to get back to me on Yes, so I had that as gross square footage calculations, but I didn't have their dimensional okay, uh, there was also a question of uh the sufficiency of the transportation demand management plan Thank you Rachel did you get also the the screen walls on the roof that david mentioned? I did the a2 screening on the roof. Yep. Okay. Yep. The last item is a rendering A rendering showing the neighboring structures Yes, I did have that one So it's details and a rendering If you're good, I I uh saw motion Okay So that's a motion to continue docket three six three three Jenny, do you have a suggestion on the next meeting date? I asked monte ratio, uh, how much time he thinks he might need to Monte Richard you'll need a second Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to include that as part of the the motion before we have it. Okay. Sorry Ken I think I'm doing this correctly You're doing a great. You're doing a much better job than me Okay Should I be talking now rachel or what should I do? Please go ahead? Yes, if you Monte are you there monte? Yes. I Uh, how much time do we need? So I think that if we're is it possible to get into the next meeting I guess is my first question Because if it is then we would push to do that or what is the deadline that we need to submit things by to get into that meeting I want enough time allocated for us monte so we can deal. We have a myriad of issues here I want to be able to deal Be able to deal with them all okay effectively and that really is your burden. Okay, so How much time do you think you might need? Let's let's work with you and go from there Uh I guess that's what I'm saying is that in the interest of our client We would push as hard and fast as possible if it is possible for us to get in the next meeting If it is not then we would go for the meeting after that Next meeting rachel next meeting is on october 5th, and I need all materials by october 1st No later than that's when they're posted. Yeah Okay, we can We can certainly But my preference would be to have them on that tuesday not on thursday thursday is when they're they're posted That's the latest amount. Okay. All right um I Think that that might be pushing it Me too. Okay Me in october 19. What's the next meeting october 19? Yes, so we would need materials by the week prior So the 12th Yeah, I'm the the yeah the 13th or 14th Okay, so what's the next date? October 19th is the next meeting after october 5th. Okay. All right You okay with that monti? Perfect. Good. Thank you Great. So do we hear a motion to continue docket 3633 to uh october 19th So motion Second Can I have a little bit of discussion before we vote? Which is I just want to be clear that it's going to be very hard for me To approve this project if there's a vast decrease in the commercial space If I didn't hear that gene if there's a large decrease in the commercial space I'm not likely to approve the project I just want to not have you go away thinking That you can get rid of most of the commercial space and be fine. You may be fine with my colleagues If if I could gene, um, this is monti So one of the things that we can work on first is the market analysis And can we communicate closely with you on that to find out where that lands? Well, you can yeah communicate with uh, jennifer rate about that. Yeah, we'll deal with jenny on that now do you change? Yep Okay, anything else before we vote Okay, so I'll run through the Run through our list here, uh kin Yes Ian yes david Yes Katie yes You know, I'm a yes as well Okay, so that closes Where that continued socket three six three three two october 19. Thank you very much. Thank you all for your time Okay, let's see the next item on our agenda is um 10 or excuse me 19 our park av a review of an update on the minuteman bikeway connection Jenny, do you want to introduce this? item All right. Yes I was doing two things at once not successfully there Put on the screen here the submission that was provided by Pam Hallett the executive director who is also on the line um I'm gonna actually unmute her And ask her to come into the meeting Pam Hmm, not sure where she is. She's right here, but Okay, there we go Sorry, so um, so this is similar to when you You reviewed the final plans and spec specifications for this project as well as 117 Broadway This is back before you because there's been a change Since that last meeting specifically to 19 our park av And in a manner that I thought was best for the board to review and also understand Um and allow the applicant to describe what is happening and what what we're hoping will happen with this but what um, what modifications might be need might need to be made uh to both the site plan and how that relates to the overall goals of the project so um There was also a letter provided by Pam that I've attached to the agenda. Uh, just right now. We're looking at the site plan view So Pam Hi, this is Pam Hallett executive director of the housing corporation of Arlington I also live at one bill bower road in Arlington and I'm a town meeting member um So what what transpired is? When we were doing the remediation Of the 19 our park av site We had significant cost overruns over well over a hundred thousand dollars The it turned out that the soil Far more of the soil was contaminated And then we expected and it was contaminated with pcps which needed to go to a Significant dump site, which is very costly So um as as we finished up the remediation We funded a part of that. We had a small contingency of 50 000 But we funded the difference uh from the project contingency in order to can have it completed um Once we've done that the our funders became very concerned Then we no longer had a full five percent contingency for Building the buildings basically Um, and we're nervous that at some point we would run out of money so we um Told them that we would come up with some cost-saving measures in order to uh, ensure that we had significant contingency funding available One of those um possibilities was to Excuse me not to do the bridge To the minivan bark part um bike pass because that that is an expensive amenity And it is a community amenity as opposed to something that the Buildings actually require And so um, I've had several conversations with Jennifer rate and um We proposed that as an option to our funders That we would uh hold off on building the building at this point in order to If we needed to in the future Use out those funds originally designated for the bridge To use them instead for finishing the buildings The funders were satisfied with that We've continued to build we're now about 35 depending on which building 35 to 40 complete on the project um And so we spent a lot of time redesigning this the site to show that The bridge if it's removed is not going to have a significant impact on the site design to begin with it also allowed us to Reconfigure where fire trucks would come in in the event that we had a fire And that they would be able to come in off of Lowell street Rather than having to go through the easement through the gas station and that we um Reconfigured the section right by the building b which is the larger of the two buildings Uh, which would then allow the fire truck to pull all the way in Back into that space by building b and then be able to turn around and pull back out uh onto Lowell street So we've accomplished two Significant issues by this redesign Just for you to know we have received information from the mbta With many many Restrictions as to what they would be willing to allow us to do that, you know This had all been in process with them to begin with um, we still don't know what they're going to propose as lease conditions Or overall costs on an annual basis So that is still in process at this point So we just wanted to bring this to your attention in case At some point we will have to actually Take the bridge out officially from the project At this point, I am having the gc reconfigure any remobilization costs um, and uh, so that we know Exactly what we we'd be looking for uh in terms of remaining contingency in order to have the Bridge built at the end of construction Well, thank you for the for the update him Wanted to Jenny, do you have any specific items? One thing is um, I realize that not everybody may know Um, where the bridge where the bridge and this whole walkway was supposed to be so i'm i'm sort of Drawing a circle where it was, but i'm also going to um stop sharing for a minute and find The original plan as approved just so we can go we can understand what the difference is for the purpose of this conversation Okay Yeah, uh, could I just add that the bridge would effectively be coming off that paved uh section near building b Thank you. Thank you. Ken go ahead Ken. Uh, yeah, I was around when this uh project was approved and You know this project here is 100 affordable units And it's it's it's uh transforming a site that was Contaminated and making it non contaminated. I think this was a great project and um I just want to understand a little clearer pam if If there's money left over on the project That you would put the bridge in if there isn't any money left over you would not put it in that is that what you're saying That's basically what we're saying now We are also starting to look for potential other funding But we have not do not have any applications in at all for that. So at this point, I would say Yes, that's that is the point if we have the funding Remaining we would build it if we do not we would not And would you also say that in the future you may uh try to plan to get money to build it in the future Or would you take that future money for other housing projects in allington? Oh, I'm not sure what money I'm just trying to get a clear understanding Well, essentially what we have um figured out initially we didn't think this was doable is that the build the bridge could be built It'll be a bit more complicated, but it could be built at the End or after the project itself is completed Okay, it probably costs more It will there'll be certainly remobilization depending on how long it takes to Find that money or have that money and do it, you know costs always rise unfortunately But other than that it's certainly doable And can you remind me again? What was the height difference between the parking lot and the bike trail? Uh, the part uh, there is it's uh 10 feet 10 feet. Okay, so it's a pretty good size drop Okay, it's a good size drop and this is a wheelchair accessible bridge. So it had many, you know back and forth angles Uh ramps as as part of the bridge. So it's not just a straight drop Yep, okay Have it on the screen now Pam the old the original version has approved. Okay Yeah, I can't see it though, of course Yes, uh, Pam. This is david watson. I was also on the board when we approved the project and I remained very excited about it So You know, I I have to say I I will be very disappointed if uh, if This bridge is not able to be built Uh, I do think it's actually an important plan Uh important part of the transportation plan for a development like this And important for the health of the residents To give them easy access to the minuteman Um, I'm glad to hear that you are exploring other funding options perhaps Yeah, and uh, I don't know if you can talk anymore about that, but certainly I'd rather not But uh, you know, of course one thing to look at is is cpa funding specifically for this Um, because it is a significant community uh amenity But uh, that is that is one of the sources that we're looking at Thank you So, uh, I I remain hopeful uh That uh That you will be able to To find the funding to to get this done in the first instance Because I I do know the challenges of Of trying to get something built after a project is completed So, uh I I guess my my question Uh is is do we need to approve something at this point or is this just by way of of notice? I believe this is just by Way of notice that we there is no decision that has been made Our funders would also love to have the bridge. They see it as a also a very valuable community amenity Which they like So, um, I At this point. I think it is too premature For any decisions Okay Right, there's not um No, there's not a need to vote tonight necessarily on anything. It's also not a formal hearing So if there is something where we need to amend this condition To the special permit that would be a formal hearing will reopen the docket And you know have a different conversation as a public hearing. This was meant to be Um advisory in terms of a change that's happening, but technically it is still a required part of the plan Per the special permit condition Thank you. Uh gene or or katie any further comments for pam I'll just say I agree with what david and bam both said and the cpa applications are available Yeah, I'm aware. Thank you, too It's a great project and yeah, I bet like everyone else. I I hope you're able to find funding uh to support this infrastructure, but um, it's really exciting to see this comes in the neighborhood Thank you Great. I certainly echo those sentiments as well. So thank you so much for the update Thank you all Great, uh, let's see. So our next agenda item is committees and appointments Jenny do you want to lead us through this section here? Yes, so the first committee uh that we have Where we have an appointment to make is for the housing plan implementation committee and I see Ben bradlow as uh is Is saying hello and he is um somebody that um actually erin's work go Interviewed as part of the process where we accept we open it up as a committee posting uh ben applied and uh erin conducted an interview and we would recommend that ben be appointed to the committee So ben is here to answer any to tell us a little bit about himself and answer any of your questions Thank you Ben Yeah, hi, um, thank you to the board for considering my appointment As I mentioned in my application materials I moved to arlington um quite recently in end of july I've been living in summerville in cambridge since 2011 mostly in summerville And i've been involved in a number of Housing related initiatives in the city of summerville and in particular as part of a neighborhood council that negotiated a community benefits agreement with master redeveloper of the union square neighborhood in summerville um Yeah, my my My work is i'm currently a postdoctoral researcher Um at the weatherhead center for international affairs at harvard Um, and i'm trained as a sociologist and an urban planner Um, i'm happy to talk more about My experiences and qualifications, but I was told that I should speak briefly. So i'll leave it here and i'm very excited about the work of the housing plan In the town and I think that I have I would love to contribute to what the committee has been doing and what it helps to do. Thank you Thank you. I'll turn it over to my colleagues for any questions or comments starting with kin um I look through your resume and ben you you have quite a Quite a resume there academically, but have you actually done any work for developments or Any practical work on public public projects or one of that that you can just tell us So, um I worked for five years in in south africa um with Communities and informal settlements that were negotiating with city governments Around development projects to upgrade basic services in their neighborhood um So that's that's kind of my main work as a profession That on occasion that included partnerships with private developers as well um And then in my work in summerville, we were as part of a neighborhood council. We were I was part of a team and Really leading a team that was negotiating on a weekly basis with um a national development consortium um To secure funds for additional affordable housing above and beyond um The 20% inclusionary zoning that exists in summerville As well as a number of other funds for um job training programs um Different kinds of open space conditions Uh, there are a wide range of things that we're negotiating beyond just housing, but that's that's what we're working on on housing Thank you uh, david Ben you you certainly have a fascinating background uh, and I I think, uh Uh You have a Would bring a unique uh, but relevant perspective to the committee. So I'm I'm supportive and and don't have any further questions Thank you Thank you gene Yes, ben. Thanks so much anybody who agrees to volunteer for something like this deserves a lot of credit and a pat on the back So thank you for doing that. I'm just very briefly. What do you think? Arleigh, what do you think Arlington should be going in terms of more housing production? Where should it be going? um, you know, I think that you know This is not an Arlington specific issue in a lot of ways though. There are some clear particularities to the Arlington context Um, but there's a there's a regional housing problem that's been identified quite clearly in the housing plan um And I think that Arlington is in a good position To be one of the leading communities in the region in terms of alleviating that that housing deficit while at the same time um being thoughtful about how we do that um to make sure that there's uh the kind of buy-in that that doesn't allow kind of major or new development to Divide the city and one thing that I want to bring up in terms of My experience around precisely that is the work that we did in union square Was very contentious at times in our community We had very vitriolic meetings at various points with different Parts of the neighborhood and by the time we negotiated an agreement We had a 96 percent approval in the ratification vote by the community um, and so You know, I understood I'd like to think that that experience has taught me how to navigate um the real You know the inevitable kinds of conflicts and divisions that arise in development and how to get to something that At least a wide range of a majority can live with and be happy Great. Thank you so much Thank you Thank you gene. Um, Katie Uh, I just wanted to say thank you so much for volunteering your time. Um, this is a great record. I definitely support your appointment Yeah Great, and I'll also echo my support and I specifically appreciate your sharing your experience working together with the residents of the union square neighborhood in in summerville as a former inman square residents I uh, I Witness firsthand how contentious some of those discussions were and uh, I appreciate you jumping in then as well as here now So I think with that, um We need to vote correct jenny as a board for the appointment. So we'll take a motion to approve Let's see Motion to approve, uh, ben bradlow for the housing planning uh information committee I'll second the motion Great, and I'll run through the list. Uh Dean Yes david Yes kin Yes Katie Yes And I mean yes as well. Congratulations Thank you very much Good luck then All right, and we have a few additional, um Seats to fill on other working groups jenny Yes, so this is sort of a you know tonight we did the organizational meeting which was you know unexpected I realized but I thought I would bring up appointments to committees, especially with andrew now Off the board he had actually served a number of roles. Um, and then also one of the Or the cpa committee is something that we usually revisit before they get into the application season Which is actually what's happening now. They're in the preliminary application So I wanted to make sure that we uh revisited our appointments on committees To make sure that and we zoning bylaw working group is something that we haven't brought up and I looked back It's been two years. Um, so I just wanted to make sure that we are fresh on our appointments with all Uh, the various groups that we have People working on so the first one is the community preservation act committee Jean has been serving on that committee for I believe the two and a half years maybe now Three and a half three three and a half years. Um, so quite a while Um for the board and then the master plan implementation committee that was andrew's role andrew was actually also on the residential The design guidelines working group, um, which had morphed Over time but because that timeline is also rapidly winding down I don't know that we know, you know, I think there might be one more working group meeting happening So I don't know if anybody's interested in that. I didn't put it on this list Um zoning bylaw working group. I mentioned and we already addressed the hpc Although it would be nice to have a board member participate occasionally in those meetings as well so, um, I realized they're all happening at different times though, so the cpa committee Basically is a is an evening commitment though during the review period. It is quite busy with, uh, You know talking with applicants Um, sometimes doing a site visit attending hearings before town meeting usually And having a number of sessions. So that one has kind of a You know peaks and valleys in terms of timing Usually bunched up around Application season and town meeting that you can anticipate a lot of meetings and gene can Can correct or add to that. Um master plan implementation committee generally meets quarterly that has been since the beginning uh zoning bylaw working group is basically a For the most part a first, uh First maybe wednesday of the month. I think in the morning Uh for as long as I can recall although occasionally there are additional meetings as well for that group And hpc generally speaking is meeting now the first thursday evening of the month Design review working group is uh has sporadic timing. So, um, I can talk about that if necessary So I'm looking to just get a sense of which board members intend to Participate on these various groups and committees Or reaffirm The people who are participating Thank you So should I start Go for it So when I got on the redevelopment board three and a half years ago kin said Be on the Community Preservation Act committee. I don't want to do it anymore So I said sure if somebody else wants to do it. Um, I'm happy to Give it up for somebody else. I'm also happy to keep it as jenny said the um The process pretty much starts now with the application going out We give preliminary applications back I think sometime in october We have some meetings will review them We decide which applicants We want to put in a full application sometimes Have to consult with the applicants about what we think they should be doing Then the applications come in we review them. We decide visits Some people talk to some of the applicants then there are public hearings And then we have votes on Which um projects to recommend approval to town meeting Fortunately in the time. I've been on it. We've never Had a disagreement about what Any of the votes and we've always had enough money For all of the applicants that have turned out with applications At the end a couple of gotten weeded out along the way So so far that's been fine each year. We think there won't be enough money For all the applications, but so far there has been it's a good way to see what's happening in the town Meet some interesting people on the committee and Help move community preservation act a lot They did a great job jean Oh stop it So should I go next I was to say I'm willing to trade with somebody or I'm willing to keep it So I've been serving on the zoning bylaw working group for I'm not sure how many years Well, you were you were on the zoning recodification group, right? We started we started in a while We started, uh, we started together, uh, most mostly the same people there were a few changes when we shifted over to the zoning bylaw working group But uh, we See Most of the uh proposed changes to the zoning bylaw in the first instance and and also see and participate in studies like the the study of The industrial zones that's that's been going on And uh, it's um, it can be very detailed nitty gritty work And I've certainly learned learned a lot doing it and It's uh It's a good group of people. Um, we we do occasionally have somewhat spirited discussions But uh, it's it's certainly a a good and I think effective working group So I'm happy to continue doing that since I I for whatever reason continued to be interested in in uh zoning details But uh, I as gene said if anyone has a deep desire to uh to tackle the zoning bylaw I I would entertain stepping away from that And any thoughts No Okay Katie any of these openings or groups that sound like something you'd be interested in jumping into or learning more about In uh in a world where my kids were older and we weren't in a pandemic that's messed with my childcare totally But I think right now this this is the max commitment I can offer right now with a six-year-old and a four-year-old so great and uh with my six-year-old and Just putting my head in the sand about what's about to happen with his three days of remote education. I I Feel similarly. I think the only thing I potentially might be able to take on is to um If we need to fill the seat for the master plan implementation committee given that that's quarterly That's probably the most that I could probably Take on even though I did promise my family. I would take on no more volunteer positions So Does anyone else have an interest in either the master plan implementation committee or The housing plan implementation committee looks like jenny if i'm Incorrected if gene and david remain on their particular Committees and working groups those are the two that we need to fill tonight. Those are the two. Yes So does anyone have a specific interest in the master plan implementation committee or the housing Plan don't think I got the time right now you know can we supplement them with staff jenny Well, we already participate so Yeah Both Aaron Aaron has really been attending the housing plan implementation committee meetings as of late It's been in conflict with other meetings. I've needed to attend or other commitments Master plan implementation committee. We haven't held in a while So that one's been a little bit on hiatus and needs to be I think that they do have a meeting next month though So, I mean of course staff always staff participate in all of these committees and working groups there Yes But if there's not a board member who can participate For now we can just sort of come back to this Maybe in a few months Yeah, I'm happy to put my hand up for the master plan implementation committee given that it's quarterly You know at least in an interim until Things calm down and perhaps other people are able to take on other commitments Yeah, I will just say with the HPIC we are planning to do a housing production plan update and It was very helpful when we had the ARB member participating Andrew participating in that process during the housing plan advisory uh piece So it would be great once that actually starts up to have somebody participating at that time So we're we're planning to post the RFP For a consultant to help with that plan soon Um, and that'll you know likely kick off actual work I would say in a couple months to maybe early next year Just at the rate that we're working So maybe we can like I just said maybe we can revisit this in a few months And somebody from this group can participate You know, I'm interested in that but I think the timing is going to conflict with the CPA Oh, definitely. Yeah Yeah It's a yeah Thursday night thing Which I think is almost the same time a CPA sometimes sometimes Yeah, uh, do we need to vote on these individually or Um, I think you can vote on it as a group. I think that's fine Okay, so we have um looking for our motion for gene to continue on the community preservation Act committee Myself rachel to join the master plan implementation committee David to continue on the zoning bylaw working group and for the time being for the seat to remain vacant from the ARB on the housing plan implementation committee So No motion Okay, David. You got it David David motion. We have a second. I'll second And I'll run through the list. Um, David Yes Gene yes Ken yes Yes And I'm yes Okay, see so the next item on our agenda is the fall meeting schedule Virginia I'll throw it back to you Great. Thank you So we have as you heard a little bit earlier. We have a meeting on october 5th. That's our next meeting We do have an agenda for that including a hearing for uh, escar, which is a 23 Broadway Where there will be a proposed retail marijuana facility establishment And we have a couple of other things including We're going to talk about the design guidelines that I mentioned Before so that'll be coming to you at that time And I think we'll also try to put in there an update on the industrial zoning study that david mentioned At that meeting, but it it might go to the october 19th meeting. So I have to confirm that The next meeting after that is october 19th and then in november just to confirm it's november 2nd and november 16th What I wanted to let you know is that uh tonight the select board was Discussing opening the warrant for special town meeting on september 21st and holding special town meeting on november 9th so um At the moment we have adequate time to bring back and refile or as we discussed back in the spring When we postponed a number of articles for the annual town meeting We can refile those articles for the special town meeting but we would need to schedule additional hearing dates and um, I have a proposed Timeline that I would like to provide to you So we would actually I would suggest using the october 19th meeting now. I realize we Just continued 1500 mess after that evening But perhaps after that we would have our hearings um on zoning warrant articles On that evening and then also on october 22nd 26th and 28th um I looked at other Conflicts and that seems to be the best situation It's also better for us to not do consecutive evenings Just because of the posting issues and the time For turnaround between meetings, so I'd prefer to do it that way if possible um I'm open to suggestions, but it's the the week after that the first week of november is very dicey with the election and um I don't know if uh the third or fourth or I think it's the the wednesday and thursday is possible, but It is I suppose an option, but then we're getting very close to the actual town meeting date So I don't think that that would be logistically really feasible for us October 19th really is the first night though that we could have any hearings because of the time It will take to post and have the legal notice. We can't do it any earlier than that journey What were the other dates? 22nd 26th and 28th and the special town meeting is on november 9th Which will be held virtually one more time. Yes, october 19th, which is a current meeting date october 22nd october 26th october 28th And special town meeting would be november 9th You also have meet regular meetings on november 2nd and november 16th So I know that's a lot of meetings, but I just wanted to Put out there that um these are some options I also want to say that we had planned four nights of hearings back in the spring due to the number of warrant articles that we had to have hearings on so That is why I've also looked at another four evenings here And of course it's possible we could get more Can I ask you another one question? Yeah One one. I know you talked about before was our joint meeting with the select board. Yeah, that's uh That's the next agenda item actually that that is on september 21st Next monday So jenny for the um Zoning warrant articles. Can you put together an email package that you send to each of us soon with? with I guess What you have that we're going to be looking at again I don't know what it will be other than we would just be refiling Excuse me. We would try to refile what we had in the spring But the warrant is not going to open until monday and I don't know when it's closing. So I don't So there were the ones we proposed Are we anticipating that? Everyone who proposed Their own warrant article would have to refile that again for a special time meeting And that we communicated back in the spring was that we would essentially refile those warrant articles That's a whole big package both hours and the ones that Right. So that's why I think would be helpful to see you know as soon as You know not tomorrow, but when you can put together that whole thing So we have a chance to review it again It's all on the it's all I what I would suggest is that after the warrant closes Then I'll put together a new package that everybody will have with all of the zoning articles If you would like to review anything from spring town meeting that wasn't heard. It's still posted on the arby's page I'm glad to resend it But I don't want to confuse anybody that those are the only articles because the warrant has to reopen They're gonna have new article numbers So I just you know, that's why I'm hesitating a little bit gene. I'm not um, that's fine Yeah, I also I frankly don't know if the if all of the people who were the Prior petitioners will plan to refile A couple of people actually didn't State that they planned to so I don't know what will happen Okay I also want to just go back and refresh my memory because with the passage of time I'm not a hundred percent sure uh We might not want to consider Something uh different from what we were originally proposing Yeah, and I sort of came up with a couple of additional corrections to the bylaw since we put the package together Well, the warrant the warrant, uh, as I said, we'll open on the 21st Our next meeting though is an until october 5th So if you were planning to file something as a board that would be Probably challenging at this juncture Um, just to give you a sense of timing. I I I'm not sure that will work So so the the warrant articles that were put off The the they're just going to automatically be Refiled when warrant opens That would be our intention Yes, that that would be the intention. So How about I send around to gene's earlier request? I'll send around what we had from last from the spring from last year, which was actually the spring Seems like a long time though, right? Yes, that's very true. It's hard to recall. Um So I will send that around you can take a look again Um, I don't know when the warrant is going to close. So I'm a little hesitant to Uh, I don't know if we will be able to propose anything next at the next meeting. I don't Know that that will be feasible just based on timing Seems unlikely plus the the timing for you know, um The legal notice just would be very compressed and too close Unfortunately So the plan was as we agreed in the spring when we postponed everything is that we said we would simply refile everything Um to the next town meeting that was feasible. So that's still the plan. I'll send everything around you can take a look if anything feels Like you really want to call it out and let me know something looks off or Have any other suggestions. Just let me know And I will also let you know, uh, what the select board decided this evening. Although Um, if I have any other information about it, I'll let you know in the time that we're on this call Uh, but but the most important thing is I really need to know the dates to confirm the dates that we would actually have the hearing So this is we're talking about the content, but maybe we could just pivot to uh securing the dates So I've got october 22nd 26th and 28th as the additional meetings Would those work for the group? yes yes Okay, perhaps you could 20 the 26 may be tricky for me. Um, not impossible but tricky Will these still be the zoom meetings? Um Yes, okay. Yeah, these are all everything is everything is remote right now We are not making any changes in that regard and the special town meeting will also be a remote meeting So if you are feeling inclined to do so, I would need a vote of adding additional These dates to your calendar So for others So moved october 22 26 and 28 Be added, right They would be added. Yes. We just need them. Yeah second Here run through the list Uh kin Yes Dean Yes David Yes Katie Yes And I'm a yes Great. Thank you Great. So the next agenda item is the upcoming ARB goal setting meeting and joint meeting with the select board on next monday the 21st well We have a we have a joint meeting with the select board which is A meeting that we were hoping to have in july which was postponed um to next monday night and uh the goal is to I think What I would suggest the goal is to sort of revisit the conversation that you first had with the select board earlier this year Which as we just reflected seems like a very long time ago and perhaps reflect upon that conversation about housing and economic development issues because things have changed quite a bit and um We have some new members. They have some new members And I think we should have an uh, you know revive that conversation and also my suggestion would be to commit to Some clear next steps again, like we did the last time For example, the last time we committed to having uh, this is what we we had hoped to do It was very soon after that unfortunately that we entered the pandemic So, uh, what what we had hoped to do was uh have a question campaign, which we actually started and then abruptly stopped because it was Really only a month of it actually And then we also agreed to have uh, sort of a joint meeting of the chairs Uh myself and the town manager and town council To prepare for the town meeting, which we also did but then that also abruptly ended Um, so those were a couple of the a couple of things that we agreed to at that joint meeting that um then occurred so, uh I would suggest that we revisit these things and perhaps uh, I want to see if the board wanted to add anything to that agenda and then Related to this we also need to update our annual goals. So currently we're We're a little behind on our annual goal setting again, uh the year before we actually did that in the summer We haven't done that at this time I'm happy to set time like a A shorter window of time on Monday night just for the board to meet without the select board So it'd be like you'd have a meeting To talk about the goal setting for the upcoming year and then you'd have your joint meeting Or the other way around whatever suits you Um, but I thought it would be good to also revisit that. So I guess this agenda item kind of has two things going on if you want to look at it that way, but We do need to revisit our annual goals We're behind on that and then I wanted to see if you agree with the items that I'm suggesting for the joint meeting with the select board And or if you and or if you have other things to add Can we do that on September 21st at maybe at seven before the meeting? And then roll into the other meeting I think that's a great great idea. I think I think what jenny proposed and and you just Reiterated there ken is ken is great because then that'll allow us to really Have our goals in hand as we go into that meeting together with the select board okay I wish there was a way Which doesn't seem likely given the timing that we could have A bit of a more relaxed opportunity to talk with each other about that like we Some well, so like some of us did the last time But uh, I guess we'll take what we can get at this point We're not going to be conducting any meetings in person at this time So uh based on town policy Right how we are handling covet Right, but I do appreciate that and I enjoyed that goal setting meeting So is it a proposal that we meet by zoom? It's seven on the 21st and then We zoom with the select board at 845 I think so I just will say I have to confirm with with adam chapter lane the town manager just to confirm the the timing But if it's if it's okay with you, I will Confirm that we want to meet before the goal setting meeting. I just need to Be a hundred percent sure about the timing. So I'm gonna have to confirm by getting back to you Okay, is to go to that one So motion No, go ahead. We don't have to you can if you want to I mean It's um, it's more I was actually looking to see if you wanted to add anything to the agenda or if you also confirm But that's you're good with that or is there anything else you want to make? You know that you think we really should talk about with the board Are we going to uh revisit the uh public engagement? plan around the housing Discussion because that that was part of our original discussion with them And that all kind of went by the wayside with the pandemic Yeah, I would suggest that we revisit what we talked about before including the things that we were committed to doing to see what we want to salvage or re-imagine Moving forward. There's also the twist that we're now going to be uptick in the housing production plan um, which we weren't doing this this year Um going into the next year. So there are things that are different, but we should do that Yeah, I mean, I think I think we need to figure out how to do the engagement we need remotely because uh The the end of our current situation is uh is not going to be soon And um and I'm I'm I'm very conscious that our our housing issues conti