Loha, welcome back to Politics in Hawaii on Think Tech Hawaii. This segment is called From Washington D.C. to Washington Place. Today we'll be speaking with Neil Abercrombie, former city councilman, state representative, state senator, U.S. congressman, and the governor of Hawaii. Neil has played a big part in local politics. He appointed Derek Kawakami to the state House of Representatives. Derek is now the mayor of Kauai. He appointed brain shots to the U.S. Senate. He appointed Joe Cahilly to the state Senate. He was succeeded by Sankai Cahilly, who is now in Congress. Today in Congress it seems like it's not about what's right or wrong. It's about politics. Neil, please tell us about politics in Congress. When you were there fighting for what is right for us and for the nation, and how you see it now. Neil? Thank you very much, Dennis. I appreciate it very, very much the opportunity to be with you and all the folks associated with Think Tech. When you were reciting those various offices that I held, I was thinking back to the first time I was elected in 1974 and my mentor, my guru, the person that I looked to for guidance in politics, of course, was named Kawakami. The Kawakami family, for me, then goes back generations in terms of politics. The Kawakami family is a good example of what the kind of politics that I first knew in Hawaii was all about. It was about service. It was about ideas. It was about carrying through on behalf of the common good. As a result, the politics being played today is entirely different. I was mentored, as I say, by real giants of the Democratic Party that were there because they believed in something. Tony Kunimura from another Kauai name. There's a little statue of him over there in the city complex, in the county complex over in Lohui. He taught me. He and others, John Ushijima from the big island. Oh, I could go on. Dozens and dozens. Nadal Yo Shinaga, the great guru of the state senate, first one to endorse me back in 1974. Those politics were personal, just like they are now, but they were personal on the basis of, what could you contribute? What could you do? What did this holy boy from the mainland have to offer Hawaii? The politics in those days, they weren't interested so much in what you look like, or what your name was. Even where you came from is, what could you contribute to Hawaii? Were you willing and able to submerge yourself in looking out for the kuleana of Hawaii? Were you going to take responsibility? What kind of person were you? And I remember, if someone back in the 1970s, Dennis said, oh, who's Abercrombie? They say, oh, the holy guy over there. The holy was not an explanation. It was a description. It was me. They said, you know, which one is Dennis Isaki and which one is Abercrombie from behind? They would say, oh, the holy guy. That's Abercrombie. And that wasn't for Jordan. They weren't making fun. They weren't pointing fingers. What they were doing was simply differentiating on the basis, as I say, of a description, not an explanation. Today, the politics in today in Washington, when people ask me, do you miss being in Washington? No, I miss the people that were ready to legislate, not pontificate. So the politics today, including in Hawaii, I'm sorry to say, is more and more reflective of what's going on in Washington today, which is not politics, but in the sense of people trying to see what they can do for the common good, it's people looking out for themselves in power. Yeah. And I mentioned some appointees you had. I'm sure you had pressure to appoint others.  Can you say anything about that? And I'm writing about it right now. We're not a political memoir, not an autobiography, but a political biography. And of course, yeah, that was the particular one you're referring to is the appointment of Brian Schatz to the US Senate. And I suppose, Dennis, you know me well. I mean, by full disclosure, you and I are old friends and I relied on you for my advice in the house. Maybe that's how I got in trouble. I was listening to you talking about it. We're known better. We get us arm wrestling. You can take a picture, yeah. Picture up there. Arm wrestling. Sure, you were winning. But the point is, you'd be my witness on this. I never really got bothered by my pressure. I never really did. I always thought to myself and I always said to people, this is how I won the first place. I mean, come on, let's be straight here. How is this long-haired bearded holy boy from Manoa, this radical guy, ever going to get elected in Manoa Valley and Makiki, right? Against people like Hiram Fong Jr., Charlie Ushichima, you know, AJA, Vice President of First Hawaiian Bank, Bank of Hawaii. Those days, how is it going to happen? Well, people were willing to give you a chance in those days. They thought you might have something to offer. They're willing to give you a chance. And so I always said to people, look, you may not agree with me on every issue, but you're electing me to exercise the best judgment I can on behalf of what is the public good. That's what I'm going to do. You might not be with me on this issue, but if I think you're right about something and everybody else thinks you're wrong, you don't have to look twice to see whether I'm there. I'll be with you. I'll be with you. And so, you know, that meant a lot to people. Maybe everybody's against Isaki, but if I think he's on the right track, Dennis, you believe me when I said I'd be with you, right? Yeah. And so I think what happened, Dennis, is that pressure never bothered me because I always thought I told people that I was going to do the best job I could. If they don't like it, they can vote for somebody else. And of course, on occasion they did, but mostly they didn't. I was in 36 elections over all that time that mentioned 36 elections. That did pretty good. I don't, pressure doesn't, the pressure on me is if I did what I thought was the wrong thing. Yeah, I remember a long time ago, it was a Democratic convention at the Shartan Waikiki, I think, and that you gave a great speech just as Obama did when he got started before he was president. Did that lead to you thinking about becoming governor? Oh, no, you know, no, no, I was just happy for Obama because I'd known for President Obama because I knew his father and mother. I'm probably one of the few people, there's a couple of us left. My friend Andy Zayn, Pakhe Zayn, from Antiques Alley, he's down there on Queen Street right now in Oahu. You want to go down and check out the history of Hawaii through Antiques. He can do it for you. He and I, I think, are among the only people left who actually knew President Obama's father and his mother at the University of Hawaii way back in 1960. So when he was elected, Senator, and came out to Hawaii, because he came out for Christmas, of course, every time to see his grandmother, who helped raise him, we had a big greeting at the, and he gave a speech at the Shartan Waikiki at the tap of Ballroom. And hundreds of people from Hawaii showed up, because I introduced him by saying, we got a third Senator in Barack Obama. So I feel very, very strongly that his presence there, speaking as the Senator, and you could tell that he could be President. He never had anything to do with me running for governor. I never thought I was going to run for governor. By 2010, when I left Congress, I was thinking about retiring from Congress and not necessarily retiring from politics, but certainly retiring from Congress. And then the governorship came open. And Dennis Yew, among other people said to me, I remember my friends saying to me, the governorship, the path to the governorship goes through you, Neil. I had never even thought of that, Dennis. Never. Never occurred to me. And they said, no, no. We think that you've got the credibility and this might, this be something you should think about. So I never, regardless of my relationship with President Obama, I did not, he spoke to him about running for governor or think about running for governor because of my relationship with him. Going back to your time as governor, in the first campaign you mentioned, you had young blood in your campaign, not necessarily the old political machine. You had Joe Caneko, Andrew Aoki, Laurie Aul.  Yes, we could have said about a new day in Hawaii. A lot of it we were able to accomplish. Some we were not able to. I wish I could have brought the legislature along a little bit better. Some of the things that we were for, Dennis, then now it's coming forward. The preschool for kids, appointed William Isla, you know, the land department. We had a program called the Rain Follows the Forest where we have to preserve our lands and preserve our forests and climate change. We could see climate change coming. A lot of things that we were pitching, maybe not everybody could see it at the time, but it's all coming to fruition now.  Oh no. She's retired now from the university, but in fact I met my wife through Amy Agbiani because my wife went into the program for women. Not everybody may know who we're speaking of. Dr. Amy Agbiani from the University of Hawaii. She was instrumental in bringing in those who were underrepresented in the student body at the University of Hawaii, particularly Filipino kids and women and the underserved. In terms of thinking they could go to college, Dr. Agbiani was instrumental in getting in there. My wife joined the program as a result of her becoming acquainted with Dr. Agbiani. And I met her through Amy as a matter of fact. Dr. Agbiani introduced us. So I always tell my wife that Amy was the blame. Yeah. I know, going back to Congress, you're up to us from Kauai and other neighbor islands. Yes. When we went to Congress, although you're voted in congressional district one, which is on Lulu, I remember your hospitality and the seriousness and meeting with us, discussing issues.  I was very, very fortunate, Dennis. I had the, not only the pleasure, but the honor and the privilege of serving with Patsy Mink in Congress. And of course, she represented the neighbor islands and when we were to walk. But we all saw our role as working together. I miss her every day. When I sit down in my den in my room at my house, the picture right across from me is a picture of Patsy and myself. I think of her every day. And she's, it's probably a good example. You know, what's the difference in politics today in Washington? Today, there's no camaraderie. There's no, there's no ability to work together to get things done. I worked with Republicans all my life in the state legislature and the city council. David Kahano was a Republican in the city council. Wadsie, Buddy Suarez, Andy Anderson, Mary George. I could name a Patsy, I could name a dozen of Republicans that we worked together. He didn't always agree on the Scotchie Henderson. Jesus, Scotchie was just great. We didn't necessarily agree on all the issues. But what the issue we did agree on is what's best for Hawaii. And we did our best to try and think what was best for Hawaii. In the Congress, don't forget, there's 435 people that are dentists. We represent almost 350 million people. We're there trying to get 217 other people to agree with us. They just, on the television, I just saw that the House agreed to have a commission to investigate the insurrection on January 6th. You have to get, you have to recognize it's not just you. You just don't get to go there and say, I'm Dennis Asaki. I know everything. Oh, you guys got to lose raise your hand when I give the signal. It doesn't work that way. People vote for their reasons. They got their constituents they have to deal with and so on. So my job when I went to the Congress is trying to get 217 other people, not to think like I did, but to think that what I'm suggesting that they do is in their interest, in their people's interest as well. You can't do that now. You can't do that now. It's a device, strictly a power game. We got the votes.  And we could care less what you think. It's not collegiate. You shouldn't run for it. You got people who are running for Congress by running against Congress. We never did that. Our delegation didn't do that. Annoy and Akaka, Abercrombie and Mink, which was the majority of the time that I was there. We operated as a team for Hawaii. Of course, you mentioned Senator Hinoe. He was a great guy for appointing the nation. And you mentioned about appointing Senator Schatz. That's one of the reasons I appointed Senator Schatz. Not everybody knows that when I appointed Brian to the Senate, he was the same age as Dan Annoy was when he went into the Senate. And that was part of my reasoning for appointing Brian was I wanted somebody who was capable, somebody who had the experience, someone who had the personality and the character, and more particularly, someone who would fit into the Senate in a way that would allow him or her to operate in the Senate. Because that relationship is everything. It's a relationship and an important. But particularly in the Senate and the political context of the Senate, let's face it, there's only 100 senators there, two senators from every state, large or small. And Brian has the ideal personality and character. Everybody likes him. Everybody likes him there. And everybody trusts him. And I knew they would. And so if I had this zero in, I guess, one decision I made my whole political life where I had the authority and the capacity to make a decision, I'm confident that that decision. Yeah, that decision wasn't easy to make. Because for the very reasons that I'm saying to you, I was looking in the long run for Hawaii and for the country. I knew he would, I was confident that he, I shouldn't say I knew. I was confident that Brian would not only fit into the Senate, but that he could work in the Senate in a way that would not just benefit Hawaii, but benefit the country. I was confident about that. So I think it's the most important decision, probably one of the most important decisions, if not the most important one that I ever made. But it was never easier. I was totally confident that decision. I never had to think twice about it, not nanosecond about it. Okay, now you've got different positions. You can make your positions tone. I've seen you working on Chinatown issues. Yeah, yeah. What I've been doing now, since I left the governorship, I try not to comment too much publicly. I think you have to in Chinatown permanent rentals for low-income folks, I'm happy to say. And I'm looking for other opportunities like that in Chinatown. I'm talking to you from a little office that I have here in Chinatown. I've always liked Chinatown. My first impression of Hawaii when I left the airport out at the John Rogers terminal back in 1959, when I came in, down King Street. And I remember my first impression of Hawaiian people. I saw this tremendous shock of white hair, bronze, upright, strong-looking Hawaiian man. I thought, wow, that's what Hawaii is. So Chinatown was one of my first loves. When I came from the University of Hawaii, I'd walk down to Chinatown every weekend, go to see the samurai movies, eat a Tintin or Wolf Fats. So I love being in Chinatown. So I'm here now doing what I can. Can you get your comments on rail and what you think is politics involved in the rail? Oh, yeah. I mean, the rail has been totally out of control for, you know, there's plenty of blame to go around. I think right now, it really doesn't matter much whether you were for mass transit or against. The rail, it didn't start off as the rail. That's the main thing. It wasn't going to be a rail, steel on steel, quite the opposite. It was supposed to be a guideway. I know what I'm talking about because I was a member of the community council at the time and the city. I remember talking to Frank Fosse about it all the way through from the beginning. So right now, whether you're for transit of one kind or another or against it, it really doesn't matter because we're at the stage we're at right now. And it's got to be funded because it's run away. We can't get the federal funding anymore. We can't get the federal match even if we could. My history with not just rail, but mass transit, rapid transit, and so on goes all the way back to Frank Fosse. My point really now, Dennis, is there's no sense looking for villains at this stage because they're all around. And most everybody knows who they are and what it was all about. But the point is where we are right now. You can't go back. It doesn't matter whether you're for it or against it. What are we going to do now is the question. That's the question that Mayor Rick is facing and the city council over here in Oahu is facing. But I think they have to have an alternative funding system. Whether they stop it at the short of Al Moana, whether they go on into Waikiki or up to the University of Hawaii, like the University of Hawaii is going to have their football games up there now for the foreseeable future. The original idea was to run it up to UH Manoa and into Waikiki. So it was much longer than what they're talking about now at Al Moana. But no matter what decision is made by the mayor and the council, it's got to be paid for. And nobody wants to raise property taxes. It's going to cost a lot of money. There are at least $3 billion in shortfall now. They have to have an alternative funding system. I've made some suggestions to the mayor and the council and the congressional delegation as to what that alternative financing could be. I don't want to go into it further because it's being discussed right now. But I'm against raising property taxes for rail. We've gone as far as we can go. The legislature's gone as far as it can go. And I don't think the congressional delegation can convince those 217 other people or 50 other senators that they should throw more money at Honolulu to build this rail system when they can't even get cars with wheels that fit on the tracks or they haven't even got their contracts. Yeah, you know about contracts. They can't even figure out where the water lines are on Nemez Highway. So I mean, it's impossible to think about funding it other than some other way. You know, where we are in this situation and politician's way in, but like you said, we're too far into it. A few weeks ago, I was on a Zoom call with Senator Schatz and someone mentioned the rail. So I throw in on the where we're going to get the money for it. And Senator jokingly said, we have a bad connection. So anyway, we got one minute left. We'll thank everybody for listening to the Library Crumbie and any closing comments. As we look to 2022 is the next election, we have to go all out to try and save our democracy. This is the first time in history you actually have people running for office that are trying to overthrow the government as we know it. And I think that the recovery plan as well as the relief plan of President Biden is a way through this problem for us. And hopefully with the Attorney General in the state of New York, as well as the federal attorney in New York working on the former president's tax case, we may get to move him out of the way as a factor in politics to try and destroy our democratic tradition. So I think here in Hawaii, the next big thing will be the election of the of the mayor of this, not the mayor, excuse me, the governor's election next year, Dennis, it'll be very interesting to see how that works out. That's coming up right up on us. Hopefully the pandemic will be over sufficiently to allow us to have in person political activity again, because nobody wants to do it like like we're doing it right now over this Zoom with the freezing and going in and out and all the rest of it. People want to get together as human beings. They want to get together and press the flesh and see each other eye to eye and make decisions about Hawaii and its future. Yeah, I know you're inside it.  Thank you. Thanks everybody. Thanks to everybody who gave me a chance. I hope you know I always did my best and whatever I have been able to achieve is only because of great people like Dennis and everyone else who always had Hawaii's interest as their interest. Thank you, Governor. I'd like to thank the listeners and thank you for joining Think That Hawaii. See you again in two weeks. Aloha.