There's not really much of it. All right. All right, good evening, everybody. This is the planning commission meeting April 16th. And tonight we are going to talk about the Mallets Bay Initiative. Sarah, you're on. Sure. So I think tonight was meant to be sort of an overview. The slack board has given you the charge to review and analyze options to address the lack of effective waste for our disposal capacity on the inner bay. And I think what I wanted to lay the groundwork for is just a really quick overview of some of the history, take you through some of the reports, have you asked questions this being in the next meeting? I'm sure it's going to be a decade to giving you some overview next meeting. We'll focus more on specifically wastewater itself, regulations, details, enforcement, solutions for on-site community, the whole gamut. So I think what we tried to do tonight is to focus on what is the Mallets Bay Initiative? Where did this all come from? And sort of walking back in staff notes, back through to the 1960 town plan that sort of first looked at some issues within the inner bay and wastewater. Moving into the 1980s, when at that time the Army Corps had jurisdiction over the state waters. And Colchester felt that we need to have a higher level of regulation along the way. We worked with the state of Vermont to get the state jurisdiction over the waters of Lake Champlain there in Vermont. And later on in the 1980s, there was the Mallets Bay Advisory Committee that was formed that looked at a lot of these issues in terms of water quality. And it was what the Harvard Master Program came out of our current police boat enforcement. And there was still a consideration at that point of do we take jurisdiction over the waters of the bay from the state? That was something that in the 1990s was looked at and the select board at the time decided not to pursue that sort of specific delegation from the state. We still have a Harvard Master which is from Colchester PD that polices the bay for the state's regulations and works with the state on enforcement of the state's regulations. Moving on into the 1990s, there's the Village on the Bay initiative that took a lot, look at land use planning in the bay. And that was around the same time that the late 1990s sewer initiative was begun to look at bringing wastewater into the bay. And then we bring you up into the 2000s and I'm just moving through very quickly the timeline that's in your staff notes. And there was in 2003, we hired David Spitz as a land use consultant to begin to take a look at the sewer bond failed. People had concerns. They didn't think that the Village on the Bay was the correct initiative at that time of the correct solution. What are some other viable alternatives? And that was flushed out a little bit more. In 2007, we did a concept plan for West Lakes or Drive with the municipal planning grant. Again, there was at that time some lingering questions about transportation, whether or not we'd have the Cirque Highway. What was our capacity for any additional traffic within this corridor? So that was something that we continued to work on. So simultaneously to this, in 2003, back when we were holding the future of Lakes or Drive forums, there was a strategic water quality plan project that was done. It was a very limited, smaller scope one, taking a look at what are our water quality issues in Colchester. So parallel paths, you have taking a look at specifically the inner bay, land use planning and this other group over here that was taking a look at water quality initiatives in the town. The recommendations of that report were to further look sort of town-wide at wastewater solutions, the stormwater solutions. And now that became what was called eventually, mouthful, sorry, Integrated Water Resources Management Plan. That was environmental protection agency grant that was given to the town to really take a look more proactively at all of Colchester, wastewater concerns, septic concerns, town-wide water quality concerns, mapping a lot of our natural resources. And that took over really a, it was a larger project that really was in full swing for five years, but that was an initiative that was more of a decade solution. So parallel paths, skipping back over to land use. 2007, we take a look and we sort of identify vision for specifically the West Lakes or Drive area, sort of stymied by, we're not sure how we can implement a plan without knowing specifically what we're gonna have for traffic or transportation improvement. Skipping ahead, the CERC dies, which was that bypass road through the bay. It was determined that any sort of bypass road was gonna be tens of millions of dollars, 10 to 15 million a mile back in several years time. It wasn't viable to take a look at bypass roads or anything of that nature. So taking a look at what we have, we applied for another municipal planning grant and then began the 2014, 2015 effort, which we sort of looked at as being called the Malts Bay Initiative. Taking a look at everything in its context, what do you want the bay to be? Some things are going in the background at this time. You have the 2014 Town Plan, the 2013 Economic Development Action Plan, and the 2012 Heritage Plan. Heritage Plan was a really grassroots strategic plan for the town. A lot of people were involved with that outside of government. And it had an action I have of identifying existing town assets and the potential resources for improving coastal water-based tourism, community recreation opportunities. Such assets might include undeveloped land, underdeveloped land, conceptual plans previously created, including but not limited to the village on the Malts Bay. So there was going at this time of, geez, we really need to stop doing some, we need to stop studying things and we need to do something. We need to find a land use plan once and for all. So in 2015, with this new municipal planning grant, moving forward, looking at the bay, we hired regional planning to take a look at traffic and to give us projections in terms of what were our limitations. And we evaluated transportation infrastructure, bike and pet infrastructure. Simultaneously, the AARP actually got involved and did a walking study of the corridor in terms of pedestrian mobility, bicycle mobility, and what were some of our deficiencies in that area. So there's a lot of good information coming through at this time. And Colchester Fire District 2 began looking at a sewer option again. So we concluded our land use planning efforts 2015, 2016, and we created two new zoning districts, Lakeshore 1, Lakeshore 2, which are for the West Lakeshore Drive portion of the inner bay. And we had sort of that as a component of what was a larger Malts Bay initiative at that time. It was the whole gamut of yes, we have a land use plan, but we're also going to address transportation, we're going to address bike, pet, we're going to address stormwater, and we are looking into what to do with wastewater. Bringing that up to the current day, within the past year, Fire District 2 decided that they were not going to pursue the sewer project anymore. And they were looking at all Pineberg, Crem, into the bay, and then out to Goodsell Point, a fairly large area and servicing it via the Burlington Treatment Facility. The town picked up the project afterwards and said, well, once and for all, look at this and see if we can have a scale back version that might be viable. And they scaled it back to West Lakeshore Drive, East Lakeshore Drive, and Goodsell Point. And that was what was on the ballot in March. On the heels of the defeat of that ballot item and looking at all the things that we have going on with the Mallets Bay Initiative in terms of the community's will and drive to address water quality holistically, as well as that the bay is a resource for all. You have been given this task to look very specifically at the human waste pollution issue of this. So this is, we need to put you in a box. We need to contain you and have you look at a very specific issue. But I think it's definitely, I'm looking at the specific issue because you guys, as part of our planning commission, looking at our long-term plan where we're going with larger vision is, need to know that there's a lot of work and effort that's been going on in the background. And you aren't being asked to reinvent the wheel. You're being asked to look at this one particular issue out of a much bigger picture. So that's sort of the Mallets Bay Initiative overview and what I tried to do too for people that want to do more deep dive. We have in the drop box, as I said, I can get those two in other ways. Me, I'll print Bob copies if you want. Tell me which ones so I don't print them all. But we have the Integrated Water Research and Management Plan whole 879 pages. We have the executive summaries. We have probably the presentation, 50-slide presentation is perhaps the best summary of that. I'm working on getting you a much more narrow down like a 10-page executive summary. We also have what's been going on with some of the recreation planning, some of the transportation planning, stormwater. So that you at least have these resources available to you as you move forward to see what's being addressed and how. Because I think there are lots of questions that came out the community in terms of why are you doing the stormwater? Is this a priority for you? What are you going to do about transportation in the intersection? A lot of people are very passionate about the Bay and to be able to educate you and let you speak to these issues. I've done enough rambling in terms of an overview. And I think if you have questions or want to go into some of the documents, I'm more than happy to do that. And again, it'll be tonight in the next meeting, the first meeting in May, it's May 7th. So if you have some questions that we can't answer tonight, we'll look into trying to answer them for that meeting. And just tangibly, I think I put this in staff notes. To May 20th, we're looking at being a public forum. So your second meeting in May and so being on the 21st we'll be on the 20th. We're looking at the high school cafeteria. So I don't know if we can go live from there, but we will try and have a larger forum to solicit the public's input about this particular issue and what their concerns are and further refining our scope of what we need to address and how we're going to address it. Thank you, sir. Okay, I'm opening the floor for questions. Go ahead. Bob, anything we're at the top of your note? Zach, anything off the top of your head, it's a lot to, I'm sure you'll have some. Sarita, next? Just wondering if we'll also look at the economic, kind of how much tourism or mallets pay contributes, you know, in clean water contributes to all of Colchester in terms of revenues? That's not part of our project scope. So we will not be looking at that. I'm not sure that there is a firm number that could be provided, but it's definitely, if you take a look at, in terms of where is it for a priority, I encourage you to take a look at the heritage plan is one of the, I think 10 recommendations of the heritage plan. It's been very prevalent in a lot of our planning with the town plans, in terms of being a resource for the larger community, both voters as well as people like us swimming, fishing. I submitted some questions that Sarah said, get to at the next meeting. So they were kind of just like a sanity check on how expensive this project is. And my numbers were like 14 million into 260 homes was something like over 50,000 per home. And probably all of those homes don't need to do sewers. So it's only half of those. It's over 100,000 per home. And I think that might be why it got deleted. It just seemed too expensive. I don't know if you had any, back at the envelope kind of thoughts. Now at this point, we're going to get into specific septic sewer questions on May 7th. Rebecca? I guess I'm waiting for the information on May 7th. Everybody's looking forward to the scoop on the poop. Scoop? Scoop. You heard it here first folks. I think a lot of this process is going to be educational first. They've spent a lot of time and energy doing studies, getting thoughts, getting plans. If we get caught up and understand everything, I think we can help make decisions that work well for the future as well as current. Clean water is imperative to everybody from creditors to us. So it all comes into play. I think it's education first to learn all the things and time and energy we have spent. So the FAR district number two, they decide not to do it. They decide not to do it because of the cost. I think there are multiple factors. The cost was definitely part of it. It was over a $20 million project I believe and it was part of the fire district's efforts. But that would serve more than what was on lecture drive. Correct. Yes sir, that was coming up Heineberg, Crem, and then going over. So this is redirecting a little bit differently. Yeah, I would think so. And then the- It's a $20 million, it's surfacing a lot more homes. It might be more cost effective. Well, a new development occurred whereby the North End plant was looking to raise the tertiary level of TMDL treatment, which was going to be an unknown cost factor, which was going to add into that being the wastewater treatment facility. So that started to be, I think, more unknowns and more cost than was originally projected when they, when they started, they started with that one. In 98, I want to say, 98. And then their, then the head of their fire district two left and the town inherited the project. Pick it up. I think their potential to be decided not to pursue it any further. Rich, anything? I'm obvious. This is- It's what happens on May 7th, I guess. It's a vast amount of information. There's a lot of history here, as Sarah so well encapsulated and summarized for you, but there's, and I think those slides there will be helpful. So I was going back to all the IWRM presentations and looking at the slides that I had and seeing how it evolved from their first presentation to their final conclusion. That'll be very helpful for everybody that hasn't seen that presentation. Good, I guess you guys are waiting for May 7th? Well, I think it would be helpful to know because it was great that Mark sent his list of questions in advance. And if there are some additional questions on SEPTIC, I think yours are very comprehensive, so thank you. But if there are more, definitely less. Now I'm going to have Denise Johnson-Turk who's our wastewater official. So she's the person that goes out and does test pits if there's a failed system. She's also our health officer. And she knows the ins and outs of a lot of our on-site wastewater rules. So not that you necessarily have to have all your questions in advance, but there's some that you'd like us to research to. I think Mark had some great ones about enforcement. But what else can we be answering for you? How many years are we contracted to have the stuff off-site and sent to another town? Is it a 20-year contract? Is it 30-year? Because we're sending everything to another wastewater facility, correct? So how long of a contract we have with the other town? Exactly. Is it a 10-year contract? Is it 20 years? Is there gaps in how much he can go up? That's a good question. This was South Burlington, correct? Yep. I'm going to remind you, I'm interested in how mills point septic systems compared to what could be done down here in the east. Like, sure. They weren't, they went year-round. Yep. I doubt we could even come up with a cause for them. So Denise, can I also explain the systems that are out there? She can, if you want to. That might be good. What's out there and maybe what is kind of beyond new technology. So this is going to be a little bit of a crash course. I'm thinking at some point too, and perhaps before, this is just an idea, we did, back when you were doing the Mallets Bay Initiative in 2015 with the zoning, we did a walking tour of West Lakes Road Drive. And that was very informative and people pointed things out along the way. It might be nice prior to our meeting on the 20th, doing a little bit of a walking tour or two, and if we can, taking your time and looking at some of the septics out there. Because I think we can talk about the septics in here, but sometimes getting out on site, popping lids open. That sounds like a lot of people. That's it. That's it. She is. Fresh Vermont air. You know, I think there's a lot to it, so it's going to be a little bit more of an ongoing, and we'll try and give you a crash course on the 7th on just wastewater, but there's going to be a lot more than I think we can get into A1, particularly night. We talked, yesterday I talked, I talked a little bit with you about some of my questions, but I think one of the things that concerned me was the perception that this was going to explode, in the Bay, so it'd be really helpful to understand what the full build-out would be in the Bay, if, let's say, a sewer went in. Are those spheres justified, or is there a limit to growth along West and East, like you would drive? So, playing commission just a couple of years ago created the zoning that sort of put limitations on what you can build, regardless of sewer or septic for West Lakes Air Drive. The zoning for East Lakes Air Drive is actually one of your town plan action items for within the next two years to come like that. And so that is on your docket of things to look at over the next year or two, for, I think, a very similar process to what we went through over in West Lakes Air Drive. Massing, runoff, views, what have you. But the zoning drives what you get for a build-out. Infrastructure is just an accelerant or deterrent. It slows things down or speeds things up. You really do want to think through with your zoning and the plan, what do you want to see happen? It's just a matter of how quickly you're going to get there. Summary of the Lakeshore Districts was kind of made it clear of what you could and could build out. For some reason, you know, I got the study, but I couldn't, did you get this one? Couldn't find it, no? I didn't go to Clarke Base, which I probably should have, I was in Dropbox. Yeah, mine was like, hmm, so. We needed to make sure your Dropbox was working because you said you couldn't find something, which I found. I found the studies, all the different summaries, like the four or five different summaries of the studies that I read, one of those, the general one, but I couldn't find like the staff notes. Yeah, let's take a look at your iPad after the meeting. Okay. Yeah, it's not good. Couple questions. In 2013, LCI, remember we had questions about the boaters and them getting rid of their waste? LCI had that Lake Champlain arc and they were gonna collect the effluent from the boaters. I don't know if that, I don't think that program's still in place. That's a good question for us. I mean, for James, it's supposed to be an LCI. I think they tried that in 2013 to be a portable repository for boater wastewater. I don't know, but there is state funds that go to the marinas to offer people free pump outs. Pump outs, yeah. Yeah.  So I thought that was some interesting information from somebody who boasts a lot. Yeah, that's good anecdotal because the boater has been taken several times. The boater himself, he spent so much time and this is what he's about and so he's not going to. Yeah, yeah. Also in the IW, I believe it's IWRM, I'd be interested to know what that 6,499 cluster system is. Gallup's per day cluster system, there's only one, I guess. You know what it is? So it's either the school or Marvel Island. Okay. They both have indirect discharge permits, so they're both over the 5,000 gallons per day. And to go to the mill's point question, there was at one time a suggestion for a pilot project out there for onsite inspection, but I don't think that ever came to fruition. So there was a pilot project that was done to look at community systems. Back in, I think, 2000, 2002? Yep, they were gonna do an onsite. We're gonna get the dust off that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And as a matter of fact, when you talk about Thompson Point, I think the mill's point looked at Thompson as an alternative and it wasn't gonna fly. No. So. Well, Thompson is a seasonal system. Mm-hmm. That's what I'm saying. At the time that the mill's point was looking at it, the mix wasn't quite, I mean, year-round as it currently is, but. Well, I guess we got plenty to chew on. Sarah's open to take your questions by email or however you wanna send them to work. Denise will tell us more specificity about our new favorite subject. So I think to lay the groundwork, there's onsite systems, which is what you probably, most of you have at your homes. And actually, all of you have at your homes.  So that is everything under, I think it's like five or 6,000 gallons per day. And so the majority of systems that we have in Colchester fall into that rule. Then there's what's called indirect discharge, which is a community system, which is that larger system that's designed to handle anything more than that five or 6,000 gallon threshold. And so that would be a Thompson's point. As I said, the high school is a good version of that. There's one at Marble Island on the old resort that serves many of the condos. So we do have examples of both in Colchester. And then there's sewer. Those are sort of your three options of different types of systems. We have a variety of types of systems in Colchester. There are some that were put in prior to the 1967 onsite waste bar rules going into effecting Colchester. There are some that we have no record of that I put into the same spot. There are some that did obtain a local permit sometime between 1967 and when the state took jurisdiction over everything around 2005, 2006. So then there's July 1st, 2007, rolls around. The state took jurisdiction over absolutely everything for onsite wastewater. So if you have a single family home and you are on 15 acres of land, you never need a septic permit before. You need to replace or grant a trigger a state wastewater permit. There used to be a bunch of things back prior to then in terms of exemptions. If you had 10.1 acres of land and were in a town that didn't have any local onsite waste bar regulations, you could have a pipe going out to the ditch. There was a lot that was not regulated by onsite waste bar prior to 2007. Colchester, because we established a local program in 1967, had a legacy of requiring at least some sort of a local permit. Now as robust as what the state now does, but we at least have that history. So we have some history on many properties in Colchester, but not all. And so I think it's useful to know that now anything moving forward does trigger a state permit. We have jurisdiction from them, locally for Colchester, Colchester and Charlotte are the two towns that do. And anything that we permit has to follow state guidelines. We don't get to make up our own rules. Vermont's not a home rule state. Sometimes we wish we could, but we have to follow the state's rules. And that includes with enforcement. So that helps give you a little bit more information to start to digest it with too in terms of what types of systems are out there. Are there new different ones that we can look at? Well, the state could look at that in order for us to allow any innovative systems, the state would have to allow it first. So do we know whether the state is allowing some alternatives? Yes, there are a variety of them. The most prevalent that you see in Colchester, the bottom of sand filters, they look like raised flower boxes in people's yards, small wooden type enclosures. Mark, I think I had a question. Yeah, do we have jurisdiction just to inspect people, like go on their property and say, I wanna see what you have here? In some certain cases we do, but for the majority we do not. It's that for, I think this is with any sorts of permits or what have you in terms of, if you take out a building permit, we have a right to be on your property. To inspect for that work and to make sure that it's being done to a proper code. If you don't take out a building permit and you just do work on your property, we don't necessarily have a right to be on that property. So I'd sort of use that for similar lines for wastewater. If you have a state wastewater permit that requires, for instance, annual inspection or maintenance or something of that nature, we have a right to be on your property to witness its installation while the work's going on. And then afterwards, if there are any conditions that you're required to continue to meet, but for the most part, if you just have a regular old wastewater permit, you do the work, we don't have a right to enter back onto your property afterwards. These are good questions. I have in my mind that in order to come to the proper solutions, you have to scope the problem. And if it's only 5% of the homes that are producing 90% of the problem, that's a lot different than 90% of the homes contributing, 1% of the problem. You've got a completely different problem. And it seems like how do we get to knowing what is the source of the problem? The Integrated Bar Resources Management Plan, mouthful, was concluded in 2013, are thereabouts? And so it's now six years old. So some work has been done since then, but hopefully what will get you in that 10-page revised executive summary is an update of here's that distilled version of all that work in an update as to what things have been done since then in terms of, for instance, the stormwater utility's been put into place. We looked into operation O&M permits, but it's task four of that study. So in those executive summaries that you have, look into task four, which took a look at exactly that issue in terms of high-risk areas, what flows are what's called non-conforming or conforming, and what's the probability of failure within those areas. And they actually, as part of the Integrated Bar Resources Management Plan, sent out mailers to people, asking them to go on to their sites. They did onsite work. They didn't do it for everybody. They could only go to the ones that asked them to. And of that, they didn't get to all of them. But within these specific areas of Good Sell Point, East and West Lakeshore Drive, they went through an analysis by looking at specific systems, specific soil conditions, and as well as our permit history of what had been permitted and how old things were in terms of assuming that something that's 30 plus years old is probably sort of like a 30 plus year old refrigerator, not going to last that much longer. Now that go of a shape. So I think if everybody prior to the next meeting takes a look at that task or information, that will help lay the groundwork for some good follow-up questions. We good? Yeah, sounds like they looked at it. Still on May 7th, is that the deal here? Well, it's, yeah, but in the meantime, if any of the rest of you have some good questions or follow-ups, let me know. And we'll, it's always great to have them in advance so Denise and I can prepare a good answer for it. But definitely come to the meeting to hear your questions and we'll try and turn through them. And I will say is Denise's expertise is at the 5,000 gallons per day or less with the regular, so particularly with what I'm calling community systems, which are those larger systems. We're phoning friends. We're asking, we're seeking out additional information. So if you have any questions on community systems, let us know in advance. So this may sound like a silly point, but it dawns on me that every one of these on-site septic systems are basically a finite amount of time. It's only a question of how long before they fail, whether they're there three years or 23 years. If we set up the whole process throughout the Bay, can people still use their existing stuff until they fail and then hook up or is this going to be hooked up? Bang, bang, boom, we're over and done it. Thank you very much. So the way that the ballot item was proposed was everybody was a mandatory hookup that touched the line. So every property that was directly on either side of East West Lakeshore and West Lakeshore was going to be required to hook up when it was installed. And that would have been the case in the Heineberg prim. Yeah. Any, if I'm not mistaken, any time you lay down that kind of utility line that's in the mandatory connection, it's like the dollar's worth, I guess, I believe. Okay. Good questions. Septics, a fully complying septic system? Well taken care of, 20 to 30 year time horizon, usually. What we have a lot of in this area are best fixes, which means that it's not fully compliant. There's some deviation from the rules and those are come out without a guarantee in terms of time. So I think Denise can speak a little bit more specifically to that and some of the extra care that's required for some of these best fixes and whether or not people do the extra care. It really varies. Do you know, is there composting toilets and chemical toilets where the best fixes aren't gonna work? Are there things that maybe aren't ideal for the homeowners, but they're gonna keep the waste out of the lake? So even with a composting toilet, the state of Vermont makes you put in a leech peel. They look at it as a flow reduction. So if you choose to put in a composting toilet, you can take a flow reduction on what you need to accommodate in your leech peel. You still need to have a leech peel because the state of Vermont looks at the water coming out of your sink as being the same thing as what comes out of your toilet.  We handle both of them the same way. So we can't require people to do composting toilets and there really isn't much of an incentive that the state gives people to do that. So by saying you still have to build a full leech field and a full system and just may build a little bit smaller. Good question. It's a shame. Is it a try? No. Well, someone has to look at, someone's a culprit. I mean, someone is dumping their waste water into the lake and they should be accountable if it's not by themselves. I'd say that in doing years of enforcement now, it's never that sinister. It's never that intentional. And there have been over the years a variety of very well-meaning people that don't have the resources to fix things, that don't realize that they have an issue. There are lots of issues to varying degrees, but I've never seen somebody outrightly serve to the sinister pipe or tank dumping into the lake at night. It's never that obvious either. We haven't been able to pinpoint any place in all our studies. We can't go out and say, this property, this property, this property. So that task force sort of does that in the Integrary Water Resources Management Plan. It talks about specific areas and not specific properties. As we become aware of specific properties, it's immediate you have to fix it. You're going on a pump out until you fix your septic system.  When surfacing, we can generally find out about those. The neighbors, our inspections, smells, wafting, those are pretty evident. And that can actually cause a health order where you have to apply like a mime or something to your property to get untreated, effluent, treated.  And you have to find a solution and construct it within a certain time period. So if we did find something like that, it would be fixed. We can't let those linger on indefinitely. You guys are gonna find out with a hard way that I can talk all night about septic. It's a really, I'm sorry, I think it's a fascinating topic and it really affects cultures. We have over 5,000 on-site wastewater systems. The majority of cultures are served by on-site wastewater. The worst that's gonna come out of this effort is people learn more, hopefully, as a public education outreach about their septic systems, what they can do with them, what they can't, what some of the limitations on science are, what some of the limitations on the state are, so. But what we're looking at tonight is for 300 problems. Roughly. It's not bigger than any one on-site system. You're gonna probably be looking at community systems as being solutions. And that's why I'm saying, although I can talk about wastewater for quite a bit, there's a whole different realm of standards for those types of systems. And the state's been very helpful in giving us information. And so any information that you have that's specific to the community system, let us know. There's, it's not a community system, but the Vermont House, I guess, is why it's called the Westlake Short Drive. It's kind of like an inn. I mean, it has like three rooms or something, they rent out. But it seems like when we would do the walkthrough there, I think he talked about his septic system being a little different. That he was allowed to put a different system in for that piece of property. It's right there on the lake. Is there a way to find out what kind of system? For which, please, there are two robes. Two robes, Tom robes, and, Yeah. Some of these, that one, yeah. With that funny metal siding on it. I have red and galvanized riding on it. It's not that different of a system. It may sound like it was different. It's not like with a leech field here. There is, what, me? Because he had a very limited man there. He does, it's small. It's made of a system. What do you have? The parking lot. I'm pretty familiar with Marble Island. We have 87 units on one system that has three different leech fields. And it's an active system. It's actually in my front yard, unfortunately. There's these big vaults underground and the effluent circulates in there and it gets kind of pretreated. And that, I guess, if the ground doesn't perk very well, it reduces the size of your leech field. So it's called an active system. Yeah, big acreage-wise. An acreage. Well, we have three different leech fields and I think the one in front of my house is seven acres. So maybe there's like 20 acres or 87 of those. I don't know how big all of them are. I mean, it's also common. So I'll tell you how much is dedicated to leech field, which is just fields. Just trying to find the property parts and stuff. It's just left over from the hotel. It's, we have like way excess capacity right now. The golf course and the hotel and everything else to be able to do. If you have 20 acres or 87 houses, looking at 300 properties and something similar, how much acreage you'd need to do community systems Yeah, that's probably way overstated. Yeah. That's the main one. I don't know about the other ones, though. Cool. Hold on. You're mostly rock, right? Yeah. It's all, it's all our lives. It's all rocked. They blast when they put in your, you know. Everyone's doing it. So everybody blasted, put it in, then they ran it down to your community center or sewer versions. Oh, to put in the subject. Now I just know every time they build a house. Yeah, that's the last thing you're right. So, yeah, it's 76 Lakeshore Drive and it's three one-bedroom units. And the description, the overall description was a mound system. 420 gallon per day wastewater disposal system. That's a mound. So, I don't believe that is, it's performance-based, but I don't think it's non-NVA ball turbine system. Is that the system that was there before and you just recant the handles? Let me go back to... It's an existing three-bedroom unit, is this? Nope. Zoomed in a little bit too much. There's a mound system, but it's, I don't know if they actually had to make any physical changes to the mound system, but... You made it sound like it had a completely different system than what was originally there. It didn't sound like a mound system this way. How much does that system make here? Well, there's some homework. That's how much it costs, you know. We didn't keep track. We're now moving forward, trying to keep track, roughly, of how much these systems cost, but... They have friends that are up in South Hero and they have three camps a row and they go from 75,000 to 90,000 to 130,000, but they just put it in the last five years. Preach one of their systems? Preach one of their systems. Progressively? Yep. I mean, they stepped out of the plate and did it because they had some nice properties. What was the highest price point again, Rick? I think it was about a hundred and forty. Wow. Wow, wow. Yeah, it was huge. It's right out of the point. I think they had to pull everything, they had to pump it back out, I believe. That one, I don't know personally, I just hear saying this. The one I know personally is 90,000. They've gone up in price. That's what you're going to do with it. They'll have to go show up here. A pumping station, too? Yeah, a pumping station's going to get a little bit more expensive. Yeah. So some of the things, too, is with community systems, we've been looking into, there are definitely models of community systems in other communities. I think what was brought up was the Thompson's Point one. If there are other ones that you have questions about, let us know. We're starting to look into where some of these are, too. I think there's one that was mentioned about insurum. And then another one in Addison County. You guys set for the time being? You guys set? All right. Thank you, Sarah. I know we could keep you here for hours, but we're not going to. Not tonight. Not tonight. Okay. And I'm going to have a motion on the minutes of April 2, please. I'll make a motion to approve. Thank you. Thank you. And I got one correction. Thank you, Rebecca. There's a word in there. I don't know what's a word. A word that's not a word? I think you mean consensus. Paragraph three, fourth line from the bottom. The commission was in consensus. Consensus. Consensus. I think you mean consensus. Still get those great proofreader skills, Rebecca. I read it. So first page? Yeah. Paragraph. Oh, it's highlighted. Okay, fixed. All those in favor with the correction? All right, all right. Minutes are approved. So... And just very quickly, I had you sign the draft of the February ones before, so I'm going to also forward around the February ones so that you can sign. I've attached out there. The assignment changed all. I just took the draft off that was printed across them. So you get to the great planning and zoning reports. I love the new format. I can see that every week, every month. And in the future, Jen, as we've already spoken about May 7th and May 20th, which is a Monday. And then in June, we revert back to our usual Tuesday, first to third Tuesday. Except in July. In July, sorry. We're going to look to have your second meeting that last week of July. And if there are any other accommodations that we can make, I think moving into the summer and sort of the topics at hand, if we need to move meetings around so we don't risk quorum for at least the majority. All right, it's a great proposal. Since I am kind of short. Let us know. So do you guys hear that? If we have to move meetings around so we can keep quorum, let Sarah know. So we can adjust accordingly because it's all hands on deck. So we get through this new assignment and we really need everybody here. So we all hear the same thing all the time because it's going to move fast. And we're going to have people coming in and I want all of us on the same page. Hearing the same thing. All right, that's the lecture for the night. Lecture concluded. Make a motion to adjourn. There it is. Can I have a second? I will second. Thank you, Rich. Meeting is adjourned. Yes.


I'm Phillip McLeanville. I've been a fellow of the society for more than 40 years, and I've learned this broadside and loved it for many years because of its London history relevance and also its silver history relevance. Because what we have here is a poster basically, it's a piece of paper that would have been stuck up on a wall in a tavern on the London Street as an incentive to persuade people to buy watery tickets. Londoners were not buying tickets because of the rumours that came back about starvation and poor crops and so on, there weren't many profits to be made. There was a threat of Spanish invasion, although there was supposed to be a peace treaty in Spain from 1604. The Spanish were very nervous about the English settlements in North America and particularly on the Chesapeake Bay area. So we had a situation where the Virginia Company was desperate to attract more support. So having issued originally in 1612 an offer for the prizes of silver spoons, silver cups, silver salts and money and failed to sell enough tickets, they did then early in 1616, in fact February just 400 years ago. They issued this new broadside to be pasted up all over London, although this is the only copy that survives. Very fragile and it survives because it's been bound up in the 18th century into a volume of broadsides. This is unique as is the only copy of the 1612 original lottery showing the silver prizes which has survived in Spain. It was sent to Spain by the ambassador in London because of concerns like the way in which the English were pumping up the news from Virginia. Here we have this wonderful piece of paper and it shows us two of the very fancy prize cups. One crown with a figure of victory or fortune, the other a very smart fashionable German pineapple cup, possibly made by German artisans in London in fact, and then the sacks of money of crowns which would be handed out to be lucky lottery winners. And then the lottery being very fair, the man who was drawing the lottery showed us a gentleman and he's got two revolving barrels for which he would draw out the tickets. And then on either side the partners, the unwilling partners in the Virginia enterprise, the Virginia Indians and in theory they were going to be introduced to the benefits of Christianity. In fact of course what we know is that the English set us introduced diseases and there were battles and eventually the Indians were driven off a land. So what we have here is an advertisement for a project which in the short term was failing in the long term, thanks to Tobacco introduced by John Roth who married Papa Hunter, Syrian princess. Thanks to Tobacco of course Virginia has flourished for 400 years.


If you guys want to be with a chance of winning this resurrection is to emblem simply drop a like on the video and leave a comment What's going on guys today? I bring you another destiny top five video and today we have top five freak out reaction So actually I was gonna say headphone users, but everybody turn on that volume just a little bit So you don't blow your motherfucking ear drummers, but hope you guys enjoyed the video Do drop a like I'd appreciate the support and I'll catch you on that next one Already all right. That's my highest late. Come on game. Give me the trespasser. Come on. Come on. Come on Yes finally Ship I got the ship I got the ship. Oh my god Yo, I got it. I got it. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god No way. I just equipped it. I just equipped it. I just equipped it.  Hold on Short game, okay Hot swap army of water Not my reading anymore snapshot in perfect balance


Diorairoa isisi, hoffa ndaftara. Aangu nagarai pa ndaftara seksai maide, maide maide, maide, maide, maide. Aungu normally to dila wahanara, i gata yna meirolu. Tuapua i sinodat رu. Aungu ni ndaftara aungu. Aungu ni ndaftara jaa, madawinga i wuta ori, madawinga i wata ori, madawinga ndaftara jaa, madawinga i wata ori, madawinga i wata ori, madawinga i wata ori, madawinga ndaftara. Aungu ni ndaftara, a'i aau aiz150s aiemi i pwoi mainea nāi'n i'naintaithia. Aiu paoniu, kai tu wadaunga ki nda-aupu i'lau, wedi wanaiai'n nopogli aipi'n nopogla, i'n nopogla ni, kada'n weinua maia. Ka'u wanaio a'i persoerei, kiva'i aiz양u o kola'u ngeilai iinau, Australian kids a'o'a maia-aibio, aio'u sa'n ana, a'i aion i'a kairotiki, i'u aishnda-iai eisada. Maia, kai tu aipi'n anama, …mengo'i pērntatul maria'u wa'u pereau y fōc maia-mabili. Tadatul oddie-baiga laini yngmengu pa ydw gara'i. Pai rai'i dwg cais paburantai, paburu lairu'u mēngu para'ri y perumpu. Aru meiwnau'u paburantai iaa, mae maia-mabili a'u paburantai. Aru'u dwegw, syni'na ymwnei wedi ma野u sūnau. Aru, mwnei, maia-mabili. nangatiaz pulaan i. Te iwa i'na rata'na. Konoa, kai nangatiaz pulaan i rata'a pulaan i. Pulaan i. Paikai ia yut, ia pulaan i. Pulaan i. Paikai ia pulaan i. Pulaan i. Pulaan i. Pulaan i. Pulaan i. Paikai i. he was saying etc. I think this is really, really important and that we need to start investigating in more detail what's in those journals because lots of those memories have been lost through the colonisation process and hopefully open some doors to us learning more about ourselves and identifying with our Pacific cultures. I don't agree with how they've written it but it's great to have that knowledge there of what we were like or the things that we have had. And in reading some of those journals what it has done for me is validate what I was told as a child, what my grandparents told me, what my great grandparents told me. It's validated those oral histories.


The International Atomic Energy Agency's annual meeting has been running in Vienna this week. The IAEA's General Conference is the global forum for cooperation in the nuclear field. 175 countries are sitting around the same table. We exchange experience. Networking between countries. Equal opportunities. Cultivating. Collaboration and partnership. Pandemic preparedness and response. I believe it contributes to peace. Important discussions on the use of nuclear energy. Climate change initiatives and the environment. It's about deciding together on what concerns all. Atoms for peace and development. Thousands of participants spent the week setting the direction of the IAEA's work and deciding on the agency's budget and other issues raised by the Board of Governors, the Director-General and Member States. The decisions made by the 175 IAEA Member States at the General Conference are providing solutions to the most pressing challenges of our time, such as non-proliferation, food, water and energy security and climate change. We are faced with an enormous number of problems, but we know that when we work here at the IAEA, we have the enormous privilege of doing something about them. The conference's main side event was the two-day Scientific Forum on Rays of Hope, the agency's signature program for improving access to radiation medicine for cancer care. The IAEA with its partners has always done unparalleled work to further access to cancer care around the globe. The Scientific Forum and the Rays of Hope initiative will bring radiotherapy, cancer care and thus the immense possibility and joy that I have had to so many others. Participants at other side events discuss the main challenges and opportunities in nuclear, from radiation safety to using nuclear science to protect cultural heritage.


Therefore, it's time for members' statements. The member from Dufferin, Canada. Thank you, Speaker. As we celebrate Black History Month, I want to recognize one of our special constituents, Kevin Jr. Mr. Jr. is a decorated military veteran who joined the Canadian Armed Forces in 1980 as an infantry soldier in the Toronto-Scottish Regiment. He later became the first Black Regimental Sergeant Major for the TSR. In 2003, he was appointed as a diversity advisor for the Canadian Forces leadership team. In this role, he identifies systemic barriers to underrepresented groups and provides advice on policies, directives, and actions to eliminate these barriers. He was deployed to the Republic of Sierra Leone in 2007, where he served as a senior advisor to the local armed forces. While deployed, he developed the first course for regimental sergeant majors in Sierra Leone to increase their professionalism and leadership capacity. His many accomplishments include receiving the Order of Military Merit, being a recipient of the Queen Elizabeth Golden Jubilee Medal, receiving the Sierra Leone Service Medal, and the Merit Award for the Black Association of Nova Scotia. And of course, our annual Remembrance Day ceremonies would not be the same without Kevin's marshalling passion. When asked what his favorite quote was, Mr. Jr. answered, if I can help someone as I pass along, then my living shall not be in vain. His unshakable spirit of courage, kindness, and compassion serves as a reminder of the values that we as Ontarians hold so dear. Thank you. Thank you for the member's statements, the member from Essex. Thank you very much, Speaker. Typically, I'd like to use my statements to highlight some of the good things that are happening in Ontario and around my riding. Unfortunately, today is not one of those days. I have to use my voice and my statement today to raise awareness about an issue that's happening in the Chatham-Kent area around well water contamination and the quality of well wells in that area. On February the 13th, I was invited to visit families in Chatham-Kent to see for myself the contamination of their well water that they attribute to pile driving during construction of a nearby industrial wind turbine. Speaker, they're driving piles through the bedrock and into the aquifer. And they suspect that that's what's happening. It's loosening up contaminants and debris and allowing black shale to enter into the aquifer. That is then suspended by the vibration of the turbines and entering in their well water. This is what they suspect, but they need the government's assistance in determining exactly whether that is the cause and what those health ramifications are. Imagine quality water is a question in this province in 2018 and it shouldn't be. So I implore the government. I implore specifically the Ministry of Health. The data has been given to the Ministry of the Environment. Now it's incumbent upon the Ministry of Health to initiate a health hazard study to determine whether that black shale is detrimental to their effect, to their quality of their water, and to their health. We implore them to do that. I want to thank Kevin Jacobyck and David Lusk and Mark Sapier for informing me of this. And I want to ensure them that we're going to continue till we find a solution to this problem. Thank you. Further members, the member from Trinity Spadina. Thank you, Speaker. Last April, my private members bill, bill 109, Reliable Elevator Act, received unanimous support in this House on its second reading. Shortly after that, an independent study led by Justice J. Douglas Cunningham was commissioned by TSSA to exam elevator availability and to provide recommendations to possible solutions. Last month, this Ministry of Government and Consumer Services announced Ontario's action plan on elevator availability, adopting all of the 19 recommendations from the study. Last week, Minister Tracy McChiles introduced bill 199, Access to Consumer Credit Reports and Elevator Availability Act. This new legislation, if passed, will make Ontario the first jurisdiction in the world to establish standards for elevator availability. Mr. Speaker, in a vertical writing like Trinity Spadina, safe and reliable elevator service is critical to the quality of my constituents' daily lives. At a recent visit to a Toronto Community Housing Building, I received very positive feedbacks on this action plan. This plan will publish information about their building's elevator performance, help elevator owners negotiate better maintenance contracts, create a standard for new high-rise buildings ensuring there's enough elevators to serve the residents, and enhance access to elevators for first responders during emergencies. I'm proud that this government's work in finding a solution for the residents of our vertical community. I urge all members of this House to support the speedy passage of the enabled legislation of bill 199. Thank you. I tend not to want to say thank you more than once. Member Stavitz, the member from Chatham-Kent Essex. Thank you, Speaker. I rise today to salute the Chatham-Kent Municipal Heritage Committee. In 2017, we marked the 150th anniversary of the Dominion of Canada and the establishment of the province of Ontario. Now, to mark the occasion, the committee has created a calendar featuring local heritage properties. I happen to have one hanging in my Chatham office, courtesy of Joe Nagel, a member of the committee. The featured buildings are both designated and past recipients of the Mayor's Heritage Preservation Award. Of course, our country and province are much older than 150 years. My own writing of Chatham-Kent Essex is one of the oldest European-subtle communities of Ontario, going back to the late 1780s. So Chatham-Kent has a wide variety of architectural styles, covering the past 200 years. And we have more than 80 designated properties and several hundred listed properties. The earliest surviving structure in my writing is the Thomas McCray House. It was built in 1812, and it was a site of a skirmish between American troops and the Canadian militia in December, 1813. Chatham-Kent has one of the greatest collections of Queen Anne architecture in Ontario, as well as one of the largest collections of mid-century modern architecture, especially noted by Joseph Storey, an architect. The Municipal Heritage Committee has administered the Mayor's Heritage Preservation Award for the past 15 years, and has promoted awareness of our architectural heritage and best practice preservation of heritage properties. So I hope you'll join me in recognizing the achievements of the Chatham-Kent Municipal Heritage Committee. Thank you, speaker. Thank you for the member's statements. The member from Hamilton, East 23. Thank you, speaker. Today, speaker, I'm talking about the WSIB system. It is shockingly inadequate, continually leaves deserving individuals in difficult situations with limited support. In 2009, speaker, the WSIB lost three billion in value on the markets. At that time, I expressed my concern to this government and to the WSIB. That changes needed to be made to cover the loss, or there could be dire consequences. And yet, despite continual warnings and advocacy from many, this government has done little. I recently met with Carl and Peter from the injured workers support group in Hamilton, as well as representatives from IAVGO just today. From these conversations, it is clear that the WSIB coverage has been dwindling. The WSIB has reduced the amount it spends on prescription drugs by one-third annually. That's more than 30 million on drug coverage a year alone. Gone, Mr. Speaker, gone. Not to mention severe cuts to direct health care services. To make matters worse, the WSIB pulls some pretty underhanded tricks to get away with a lack of financial resources. Among the most serious of these is deeming. This is when the WSIB suggests an employee who has sustained a permanent injury is capable of finding work, and even though they usually can't and aren't, they cut them off. Often, this determination is based on a cost efficiency, not on a worker's recovery. As a result, many are left in poverty. This is heartbreaking, Mr. Speaker. Today, I'm calling on the government to do two things. Number one, read over the Ivaco Bad Medicine Report as well. Number two, do not allow the practice of deeming to continue. This government might not have listened back in 2009, but hopefully they are listening now. Thank you. Further members, statements? The member from Kingston and the Islands. It gives me great pleasure, Mr. Speaker, to rise today and recognize Kingston and the Island's Dr. Dorothy Cotton and her induction into the Order of Ontario. Last night, I had the pleasure of attending the induction ceremony, recognizing Dr. Cotton and many other accomplished Ontarians for their work in the arts, science, music, culture, business, and beyond. It was a very proud moment for the recipients and all of those in attendance. Dr. Cotton has been practicing psychology and advocating for mental health issues for 30 years, making her a leader in the field. She is Canada's only diplomat in police psychology, providing a variety of services to police organizations, including pre-employment and fitness for duty assessments, program development, and research consultation. She also received the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal in 2012 for her exemplary work. In addition to her direct clinical work with clients, she also taught at Queen's University in St. Lawrence College and has lectured at centres throughout Canada and the UK. Dr. Cotton's lifelong dedication to the discipline of psychology can be clearly seen through her unique ability to inform and educate on issues pertaining to mental health in an entertaining and accessible manner, such as her kinship sync psychology newspaper column, which not only offers a unique perspective, but is a great way to get us all talking about some challenging issues in an accessible way. On behalf of the province, and in particular my riding of Kingston and the islands, I extend a most sincere congratulations to Dr. Cotton on receiving this honour and all the fellow recipients yesterday evening. Thank you. Thank you. Further member status. The member from Perry Sound, Muscoca. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to shine a spotlight on a new and exciting economic development opportunity in the town of Bracebridge. Last month, it was announced that Nipissing University had sold its Muscoca campus to Dewey Educational Group, a private school specializing in ESL training for international students. It is unfortunate that Nipissing University had to close its Bracebridge location. I am, however, delighted that a new educational institution has taken advantage of this opportunity to be part of the Muscoca community. I'm also happy to share that Nipissing has used some of the funds from the sale of the campus to create an endowment fund to help support future students from Muscoca. Meanwhile, international students will be finding a new home away from home in Bracebridge at the campus, which includes an instructional building and residences. Dewey Educational Group is based in Mississauga, where they've been helping students from abroad prepare to attend English language colleges and universities for 13 years. Dewey Educational Group's new campus should be operational by the end of the year. International students will be provided with an immersive environment to learn English as well as to explore the beauty and culture of Muscoca. I wish to join the community and local municipal leaders in welcoming Dewey Educational Group and its students to Muscoca. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the understanding, Mr. Mayor, for the thought of yourself. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Last weekend, I was pleased to join my colleagues, the ministers of national resources and community safety and correctional services, as well as the Attorney General at the ninth annual Global Community Alliance Gala. The Gala celebrates Black History Month and the diversity in our city. The Gala was founded by Moses Pratt or Yomi, as he's known to many. He's supported by many organizations and people, none more than his wife, Kelly, and he always makes a point when he's getting thanked to say she deserves most of the credit. So this year's Gala had about 350 people in attendance and it was a pretty packed evening, not only by the number of people that were there, but by the number of things that went on that evening. So this year, there were performances by St. Patrick High School of Dance and Step Team, musical performance by Angelique Francis, Lily Amad won the RBC Black History Month essay contest, Canada Post unveiled this year's commemorative stamps, Lincoln Alexander and Kay Livingston. Dr. Reverend Anthony Bailey spoke about the essence of community building and Sergeant Moelmi, for my writing, received the Professional Achievement Award. There are many more awards for youth and business achievement, as well as community building. Speaker, there's an African proverb. If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. Yomi and Kelly, thank you for bringing us together so we can continue to go far. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. Further member statements? The member from Scarborough, Rouge River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to say a few words about the Black History Month. John Gray the Cinco, the first lieutenant governor of Upper Canada in 1793, precipitated the abolition of slavery in Canada. Ever since then, the African-Canadian community has been seeking equity within the wider Ontario population. Yes, the laws of Ontario do not discriminate based on the color of a person's skin, but the people in my writing constantly remind me that the discrimination is still alive in some segment of our population. I believe that the education is the key to eradicate this disease. The month of February is a great opportunity to educate people of Ontario of the great contributions of the Caribbean-African community. Scarborough, Rouge River is fortunate that we fully participate in education of anti-racism, promotion of a Caribbean-African-Canadian culture. Every summer and simple day, Scarborough, Rouge River comes alive with a massive party. The junior Canadian parade attracts tens of thousands of people from all over North America. Please join me, the streets of Scarborough, to the heartbeat of Soka and Calypso. Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to see that the Black History Month has grown since this lecture recognized February as the Black History Month in 1997. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. I thank all members for their statements. It's therefore now time for reports by committees.


Good afternoon and welcome. I am so pleased to be here with Jennifer Ealy, who is my friend and I've known you for so long And we were just discussing that you were at the Winniski Valley Park District for 30 years You've been retired for 10 and I can't remember where we met But definitely you were involved with Winniski Valley Park District And you are a biologist and a natural resource planner And so I just want to start with how you became interested in being a biologist Did that start in college? At first I thought, wow, I want to be a chemist. It's such a puzzle And then I realized, my gosh, if I'm a chemist I'm probably living in a larger town And I want to live where I can find forests to walk in And did you live in Vermont at the time or how did you get to Vermont? My parents, we lived overseas for seven years They found their retirement home in Rupert, Vermont And there was no turning back at that point. It was like, this is a good state Did you just fall in love with Vermont? Did you have that experience that people do when they come? And it's kind of the angels and the lights and the sun What happened to me? Oh, in Rupert, I really like the tone of the people And when I would go up to Burlington, when I went up to Burlington to school I liked how people walked a lot and just thought of themselves as good environmentalists too Even way back then Yeah, and then how did you evolve into natural resource planning? Was that another degree that you got? That was a master's degree that I got while I was still working with the park district And it just seemed like, well, I had two wonderful women teach me lessons about how to read the landscape And so the natural resource planner seemed like a good segue after that You're a much better planner if you know what you're planning, if you know it well Tell me about those women Well, one of them is Susan Morris, she's still very much working She's the founder and science director and lead educator of Keeping Track And she has an excellent website, by the way, Keeping Track does She has trained thousands of volunteers in 12 states and four Canadian provinces Participants in Sue's wildlife monitoring program are taught how to spot wildlife signs Including footprints and gait as well as evidence of behaviors particular to a species And that's the classes I took centered on that Her outdoor classes helped me learn how to read the landscape in terms of Where wildlife preferred to live and take cover and raise their young And then the second person that inspired me was Alicia Daniel She also is still working, she's the founder of the Vermont Master Naturalist Program Like Master Gardener, but Master Naturalist Bingo How amazing, I never knew And she's a master at it, I'll tell you She's taught just countless numbers of UVM students A lost art, you know, reading the landscape A lot of people aren't doing that as well, the natural landscape So UVM to read Vermont's landscape She reaches out to nature lovers in 18 towns across Vermont To help them build community, deepen their knowledge And plug into local conservation efforts As you're saying this, it just seems so big The subject of the natural landscape, protecting the natural landscape And creating institutions that preserve what we love so much about Vermont And what's so necessary for the world to have So just a little bit about the history of the Wineski Valley Park District How did that get started? And were you the starter of it? No Just before you It existed before me And somebody up at UVM, Henry Farmer Was just promoting the idea of regional land protection Because the animals don't know when they're wandering from one town to another And he was instrumental in lighting the fire under that idea Initially, there were five towns that said we're signing up to be part of this district It's a district kind of like a school district, it's public and also regional And then two more towns joined within several years Because they could see they were going to get a good deal And what kind of deal, what's the deal for the municipalities that are part of the district And just really, what's the mission of the Wineski Valley Park District? Well, our mission, its mission is It will always be your mission Yes, alright, I'm going to slip up there then, okay Was to find parcels, land enough so that you could have people peacefully co-exist with wildlife You got to have large, large parcel So, what I was doing early on, they had a director who didn't stay very long And then there was another director who was hired, who was a man And within six months of me, he hired me And he said, I want you to be my secretary And I said, well, if you can call me an administrative assistant, I'll do it So, I'm going on a tangent No, this is really interesting actually So, he was the director and I was the administrative assistant And within six months of me taking minutes at the board meetings and everything Without any announcement, they switched our roles So I was the director and the fellow was the administrative assistant But they didn't switch our salary levels Which at that point I thought, that's fine, I'm at the top Things are going to get better, and they did So, at that time, it was really still a young organization Yes And had certain sets of parcels I mean, did the towns come to the table and say, I'm putting this parcel in Or did you have a master plan and say, here's the parcels we're after How did this acquisition of parts of land to protect become part of the district? Well, we focused on parcels we already had There were like five, maybe five parcels, maybe three And they were big enough to support people and wildlife So that became a priority, adding to them a budding properties to make them bigger And were they around the Wineski River? Was that part of the idea? Yeah, at first it was all, it's got to be in the valley, Wineski River Valley But they leaped away from that Like Colchester Pond also is connected to Indyberg Reservoir, which drains a different way So talk about those acquisitions under your leadership that were so important Like Colchester Pond, how did the district acquire that? Oh, it was so cool Steve Libby, who later worked at the Vermont River Conservancy Introduced me to Colchester Pond, I didn't know it existed And he introduced me to it by taking me to Indyberg Reservoir And we walked through the woods to Colchester Pond And he was saying, you know, your job is like the opposite of a developer Instead of chopping things up, you're putting pieces back together And Colchester Pond is a great place for you to do that And I just was sold on the idea And who owned Colchester Pond? It was the Colchester Fire District Number 3 They thought it would be a potential drinking water source for the town of Colchester But that became obsolete because they found another better thing And so what did they do? Did they gift it to the district or sell it? Well, they said, we want to give this to you And it also included 25 feet around it, a little buffer And I kitted with them, I said, you just want to be able to fish at the pond, right? And they went, oh, yeah So that flew along And then once we had the pond, we could start getting land Around? Around it And hopefully the whole water shed Talk more about some of those other acquisitions under your tenure I think my favorite one was with this older couple And Doug and Thelma Wright They invited me to their farmhouse and just said We want to donate 39 acres of our land And it was with the water shed It was shoreline right up to the split on the water shed And we talked, and I'll just never forget, sitting in their kitchen Where they were saying, when they were much younger They had a really simple footpath that they would walk to the pond from their house And they just wanted to make sure that the wood stayed intact And the land was never developed Yeah And they were so much in love That was the thing, they were agreeing on everything in a very sweet way So would you say that most of the contributions to the park district Were given out of this spirit of love for the community? Or were there kind of different motivations that people had? Well, Green Mountain Power, I think it's Green Mountain Power had salmon hole And they just felt like it wasn't being used, it was a really pretty place There was barely a trail down to the river But there were beautiful views, if somebody was managing it, it could become a park So I didn't have to get a hold of them, they got a hold of me And so that's sort of the next question, which is Once somebody gives you a parcel of land, you have to maintain it And make it work for humans and animals, right? From what you said So how much does it cost, is that an expensive undertaking? And then who pays for it? Do the towns pay for it? How does the economics, what do you do for management? And how do you support it in that district? We would minimally manage, minimally develop it So the trails were put in very particular places that would leave If people stayed on the trail, they wouldn't be infringing on them What we considered to be the best wildlife habitat And we had simple foot paths, but they were the path of least resistance And people stayed on them pretty fricking well And what was the other part of your question? Oh, the towns! Yeah, how do you pay for it? Well, we were very good at getting grants And they invariably required a local share, the Lander Warner Conservation Fund Vermont Housing and Conservation Fund And that's where some of the people would sell it to us at a bargain price So the difference was what could be called the local share And it just, the towns, when you have seven towns Usually there's one that's more resistant to paying And then others just are delighted to pay But everybody came through over all those years Yeah So, talking about reading the landscape When you look at Chittenden County now Compared to 40 years ago when you started the district The landscape has changed so much What are you thinking when you say that? Well, really it's a question for you No, I mean, I'm having to answer it But I really should have phrased it Like how do you see the landscape change? I mean, I see so much of South Burlington built on I see the whole Tap Corner area We thought Pyramid Mall was going to be some gigantic thing And I don't think anyone imagined that those parcels Were going to get used in that way And now it's... It's encouraged sprawl It's totally encouraged sprawl in a way that I'm not sure... I wasn't involved in the planning I just observed it But Chittenden County is quite large It's not just those two places And so I wonder what you see And what do you think the state of the natural habitat Of Chittenden County is today? I think it's pretty amazing how diverse it has stayed And one of the reasons for that Is that we have a topographic feature That is very good for wildlife corridor routes And that is ravines So we have these steep ravines That could even be just 50 feet away The lip of the ravine, it's deep And people could be walking along On a path next door Right near it And we've got a lot of ravines So I think that has saved a lot of the wildlife From being just gone from this area Burlington has some of the best diversity And it's partly because it got settled Because it was so gorgeous But with all this many more people It still has diversity And a lot of it has to do with the ravines For example, can you say where some of them are? They don't usually have names But what neighborhoods? For funders, we can name ravines after them That's a great idea So where would I look for a ravine If I was walking along somewhere? When you're driving along the southern road You can see ravines that go under the road And out the other side And they're steep And nobody, there are no trails in it They're not good for walking And so the animals travel those paths In between one natural area and another Yeah, and to find mates Yeah And then what about development? Have we developed new housing With the natural world in mind, in your opinion? Well, I think that's what one of the challenges is Until you shine a light on important topographic features And stuff like that People aren't even inclined to think about it It's just nature out there Let's make it prettier Yeah And so there have been some places Where I've been very sad to see that The cliffs that are in between Williston and South Burlington Were dynamited And those were bobcat caves facing south It was a really wonderful bobcat place And it's gone So those things do happen Do you think the towns and the cities Are doing a good job overall In their management of natural areas? Oh, I think so A lot is through their conservation commissions And that's an advisory form of local government Where people are saying, hey, we gotta save this And then people like Sue Morris and Alicia Daniel Also get people thinking about how they can affect change So that some of the important features are saved And do you think that beyond the district And the conservation commissions That the planning commission decisions Decisions to place development Are being made in a mindful way to the natural world? Well, they'd be a lot better at it If the agency of natural resources Put it on their atlas maps Where it was a feature in the legend Oh, ravines Ravines And then also when the animals Get to the end of the ravine And are gonna cross a road We need signs to warn the motorists Or underpasses Or underpasses If it can be big enough Is that underpass on Route 7 In Sherlot, that's Sherlot You know, there's the big walk The Sherlot walk See, I haven't traveled to Sherlot since COVID started Oh my goodness, so there's a walk I'm going there All the way to Green Bush Road Wow And it's the town trail And it goes under Route 7 Very nice, what's the diameter of It's a tunnel, it's not a car tunnel under Route 7 It's a person-byte-sized tunnel under Route 7 Even better, I mean, yeah The wildlife will go through at night If there's a lot of people during the day Yeah, and it's not heavily trafficked It goes through that Sherlot co-housing Out to Green Bush Road And the whole idea is it's supposed to go All the way, maybe to the Rockefeller property You know that property that's behind the Sherlot store It's supposed to go all... Anyway, it's supposed to But it is a pretty remarkable walk And I can see how the value of an underpass Would be important in that situation Yeah You've got Route 7 And that's a high-speed road Yeah, there's a lot of smashed animals on that road Yeah Where you live in the New North End There's some beautiful properties That we don't want to tell everybody about But we're going to talk about Which is the diocese property Rockpoint Rockpoint, that's it Yep, and then the arms property Which is kind of a new acquisition Arms forest Yeah Kind of Is it? I don't know how long I remember talking to Ann Arms ages ago Okay And she... It hadn't happened yet But I'm not sure So that's got added on to Rockpoint Is that next to Rockpoint? It's across the bike path On the other side Yeah And tell us about those places And why you love them Well, then the other one near my home Just to throw in a third one is Ethan Allen Park I walked in it today And it's owned by the city And managed very well And it has so many rare plants You just think people would have trod on them And they'd be gone But the rocky terrain Really helps preserve them And is that where the homestead is? Or on the other... That's on the other side of the belt line Got it Yeah With the tower And then there's a lookout as well That's a pretty park Oh, and it has... In the spring, I love looking at the ephemeral Wildflowers Before the leaves come out on the trees They're just dazzling Well, also in the south end At Queen City Park Yes That's there Those flowers are remarkable Oh, yeah, I go there Incredible Where they blanket large areas too Yeah Just beautiful That's a wonderful park I found it really amazing My neighbor, Mary Gady, is a naturalist Like you, Hiker, knows everything And a geographer And so she takes me there to Queen City Park And she points things out Because I wouldn't know what... Now I know better what to look for But the first time I had no idea what I was looking for And she had the book And she was telling me what they were And it was a revelation That whole... What you were talking about It was such a powerful idea Of reading the landscape Yeah And learning how to read nature There's a great book How to Read Nature And the guy also wrote How to Read Water And it's... It's fascinating Because we're not raised To see the world in that way No And the other thing That is so amazing When you're reading the landscape At least for me It resets my brain And I've talked to people So many people about that Just saying resets my brain Does it do it to you? And they right away They know what resets your brain means Because they experience it Well, it calms your nervous system Yeah Let's start there I mean, just start there And it stops the little voice in the head Because you're looking at so many things And the chaos is nice There's an order to the chaos of nature One of the things you mentioned Was about dog walking In natural areas Could you just say A little bit more about that Because I go to the natural areas And my dog is not on a leash And now I need to know Why it should be on a leash Okay, well How to start with this I learned a lesson from my dog Ava years ago We would walk I'd always have her on a leash Because it was the rules And at the park district Of course I've got to follow My own rules And we would stay on Stay on trail and be leashed And one day When we were on a part of the trail That we were familiar with She stopped, sat down And just put her nose in the air And so I stopped And I watched her To see I was just so puzzled Usually she'd be ahead of me And pulling me along But she wanted to stop So I watched her for a while And then she started to just quiver And my first reaction was She's scared of something And then I went, no, of course not It wouldn't be that, not here And that's when I realized She was drinking in the aroma Probably of wildlife And when I looked around I could see There was a cliff above us And wildlife could be up there And out of sight You know, five deer And then down in the marshy area Near us All the reeds were so dense Wildlife could be there So my challenge to you Is to try walking with your dog On a leash And not letting them And staying on trail And going slower And slower and slower And see if she picks a place to stop And is it damaging for the forest To have a dog trampling around? No It's more that it will spook the wildlife Wildlife, their brains are so hardwired They have very little options Beyond fight and flight If they're upset And then the other thing is They crave predictability Because then they can Their hardwired brains Be, you know, shrug stuff off But when you have unpredictable species Such as us And dogs And dogs Yeah It's just they'll flee Yeah So in the years that you ran The park district And the ten years that you have not But have been a community activist What kind of lessons have you learned To pass on to people about That you've gleaned from the work That you've done And the life that you've lived? Whoa That's a big one That's a big one I think a lot of it is just Standing in the pause of the Or the hoops of the wildlife Just realizing You gotta stay on a trail Because we will start losing Different mammals And when you look at how useful The fox is, for instance It preys on the mice that tend To be the carriers of Lyme disease And they're just in fox And other small mammals Like bobcat They get rid of the nuisance species Like skunk And if their populations go down Our lives are not as easy So just What lessons did I learn To focus on the wildlife Not so much on plants But the wildlife Because people can get endeared Feel endearing about other mammals Jennifer, tell us about this Stay off the moss campaign That you are waging in our community Well, if it's okay, I'm going to Read it right here It's one of my hopes for the future It's a current project of mine I started this project at Arms Forest In the new north end in Burlington During the early days of COVID When suddenly there were so many More people in the woods And my target audience Was mountain bikers People about the age of my son and younger My goal was to ask them To stay off the moss And here's how I got them to stop And talk to me When I'd see a mountain biker Come in my way, I would say Can I ask you a question And they would invariably stop These polite young, mostly men And well, there was one That didn't stop, but he sped by And turned around and said, thank you But otherwise everybody stopped No exaggeration And the question I then would pose To them is which plant do you think May be the most important In keeping Arms Forest Biologically diverse and resilient And almost invariably They would look up at the tops of the trees And I would say Try looking down And some of them would guess At that point it was moss I think they were just imagining it As a sponge, really And that's when I'd ask them To take on the challenge Of to stay off the moss That it required more skills mountain biking But would they do this please And so my hope for the future Is that existing Mountain bike clubs Will start to spread the word On that idea of stay off the moss And why is it important? It's because Vermont's having more droughts And moss can be critical It holds a lot of water And releases it during droughts And I saw that at Arms Forest Other places were drying up Arms Forest was robust And the thing that was neatest about it Is I'd come on a hot summer day And within six feet Of entering the park The temperatures were cool Because of that moss Amazing Keep off the moss Oh and there was one last memory I'm out there and two mountain bikers Didn't stop But I'd already talked to them I didn't realize that I had And they went, we're off the moss Both of them It was so good Now that's good, anything else That you want to pass on? How about your hopes for the future? Well my hopes for the future Top and center is the idea Of ravines getting noticed more And put on that Agency of Natural Resources Atlas That in Act 250 When there's a subdivision We ask the developer About setting aside a portion of a ravine And by doing that They can get a waiver on some of their impact fees And headwaters are really important too Because at high elevations they branch off So we really have to have a map To kind of look at where it makes sense To have these interconnectedness And then to put cameras down in the ravines To see which species are down there And are these things that are happening Or are these things that could... Not in a comprehensive way Got it But they're finding like the cameras I think it's UVM maybe That came out of that Where they're very helpful Yeah They're a good tool And UVM has so much land Yes That is still natural That buffers the highways And the condos Yeah There's some amazing parcels And Centennial Woods is now Having more housing Pushed against it Yeah And it's just like, no That's a lovely property full of diversity Well, we'll have to go in the spring I'm going to go with you You're going to show me flowers Well, I got to confess I don't know the names of all plants But I know who... You'll see them Well, I know who hangs out with who Well, there you go Yeah And you actually have an eye for them Which is good because That's how we learn And then I have a final question Which is for those of us So many of us live in Vermont Because we love this place How can people get involved In the conservation and preservation I think a first good step Is to sit at one of their Local Conservation Commission meetings And just see what they're up to And see whether they want to work with them On their existing projects Or propose other projects to them But that seems to be working very well And then to take a class from Alicia or Sue It's empowering And you can communicate better About what... Take people on trips in the woods And just promote them So keeping track is Sue's project, right? Yes And then Alicia's...  The Vermont Master Naturalist Program There you go That would be good We'll put that up Yeah, and their classes are Not exactly the same There's overlap But the methodology is different So it's very cool And looking back to your First job out of college You know, you were a biologist Not yet even a natural resources planner Did you have any sort of Vision for yourself that you've realized Or have you just kind of Put one foot in front of the other Like looking back at that person How do you see her And her youth And her 20s And her idealism And how would you describe her And you? My parents If they said something four times You knew it was a big deal And they guided us on How to figure out if it was a good job And one of the criteria Of five criteria was Make sure that you're doing something Important that's helpful So when I first thought about that I thought, I gotta help human babies They're the most helpless But then I realized It was wildlife I should really work on that They're the lowest in the chain Yeah Or so we think Or so we think Yes, yes Jennifer Ealy, thank you so much For joining us and for talking with us Biologist, natural resource planner Activist, community member And delight, thank you so much Retired And retired Oh, it's so good to see you Thanks for watching