If you can't give the recommendations based on All Star Seven drag queens, how the hell are you going to give the recommendations based on anything else?  Oh my loves, hello, welcome if you're new, my name's Megan, today we're doing the recommendations based on the drag queens in All Star Seven, the current season of All Star Seven, the all winners season. Yes! Yes! I love this season so much, and this is one of my favourite seasons ever, primarily because it has my favourite drag queen ever, ever in it. I'll give you a moment to guess who my favourite drag queen ever is, the first drag queen I ever fell in love with, still to this day my favourite drag queen and I freaked out that I found there going to be on it, Jinx Monsoon. Jinx Monsoon is by far my favourite drag queen ever, I think she's the best to have ever done it, no one compares. People say Bianca Daria is the best drag queen to ever do drag race. Incorrect, Jinx is the best. Jinx is the best. Okay. So I'm just loving this season because of that, and I want to do some book recommendations based on if you like this queen, try out this book essentially. I just want to pre-warn you before we get into these recommendations. These are Reaches Beyond Reaches, I just like, this is the first book that came to mind through very circumstantial links. If you think it's going to be Reaches, I mean just wait until you see what I actually say, because you'll be like, wow, I didn't think it could be that bad. I really didn't. The first queen I'm going to recommend a book based off of is Raja. Raja was the first winner, I think that was like the winner. Do you know what I mean? She wasn't necessarily my favourite on the season. I love Shangela and Alexis Matteo, I did love them on season three, but Raja was like the first winner where you're like, okay, yeah, I mean like no one, no one else was going to do that. So when I was thinking of a recommendation based on Raja, I was thinking she's fashion. It's fashion. It's fashion meets... It's fashion. It's, excuse me, it's fashion. I'm going to try and only use Drag Race memes, we'll see how well I do. Something that's very like beautiful, a beautiful book, but also a book that's like conceptual and like references. And like sometimes there's a bit, I feel like Raja's references, sometimes I'm not like fashion history girlie. Like I know what I like and I watch a lot of fashion YouTube, but like I'm not in the know on all the references. So a book that has a lot of references, but like sometimes you're like, I don't understand all of this. And also, I mean the running joke is that Raja's old, like who cares? I mean, do you remember her from America's Next Top Models, the makeup artist? How iconic, but anyway. So I wanted a book that was a bit older, a kind of author that is like one of the best we've ever done it. You know an iconic, iconic author who people look at as like a mainstay in their field. So the book recommendation I have is The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstin. I love this edition that I have of it, I think it's so gorgeous. This is about a magical circus that comes to town. The story kind of mainly follows these two young magicians who are kind of caught in this battle with each other without knowing it. But this book, impossible to describe, and like I cannot really remember the plot. It's above me. It's above me in the same way that Raja is above me. Raja would probably step on me. Let's be honest here. The circus arrives at that warning, no announcements preceded it. It is simply there when yesterday it was not. The black sign painted in white letters, it hangs upon the gates, reads, opens at nightfall, closes at dawn. I just feel like I need Raja to like make an outfit based on this edition because yeah, it's kind of needed. So I just love this book. It's an absolute five-star for me. It's a classic, I feel like it's a bit of a modern classic now, The Night Circus. When was this published? Like 2012 would be my guess? 2011. Oh, I was close. When did season three air? If I just, it wouldn't have been 2011, would it? It would have been earlier.   I'm actually undisputed. They're from the same era. This book just like, oh, it breathes opulence and fashion and like, gorgeousness and magic. And I feel like that's what Raja exudes, so let's go with it. Next, my recommendation is based off of Miss Jinx Monsoon, my favorite to have ever done it.  I feel like this season has really cemented Jinx as the best. Like, I don't care.  I really believe more than truly she's gonna win. Delusion. Convince yourself.  Write it down now. That is my prediction. But like, oh, the snatch game, best you've ever done it. Jinx is funny. Jinx is, uh, referential. Jinx is, he always has like, an element of like, historical, you know, like references back to an age gone by, I feel like, in her drag. So I knew I wanted to go for an historical book. And I just thought about it and I thought, the best book to have ever done it. In a strange case, the outcome is told to my Theodora gods. Well, technically the second in the series, European Travel for the Monstrous Gentlewoman, I think is my favorite. The whole series is five stars. Jinx is five stars. What more do you want? I mean, like, I had to say my favorite series of all time. Like, some of my favorite books of all time for Jinx because... I actually like, it works. I can imagine Jinx, like, dropped into this, this room of monstrous girls. So we follow in this, monstrous girls. We follow Mary Jekyll and Diana Hyde. We follow Catherine Moreau. We follow Justine Frankenstein. So it's daughters or female versions of a lot of classic men from Victorian literature. Sherlock and... I always say Sherlock and Holmes sometimes. Sherlock and Watson. Sherlock and Watson are in it. And it's discovering mysteries and it's funny. This book is funny. I don't read a lot of books where I'm like, oh, it's funny. Like, it takes a lot for a book for me to go, haha, haha. This is a place for legends. Okay. In this, Catherine, one of the girls, is writing the book of their story. And the other girls will interject with being like, bitch, it didn't happen that way. Bitch, excuse me. Excuse me.  That's basically what they say. And it's just fun. And it's wholesome. And it makes me feel warm inside. Like, Jinx makes me feel warm inside. I feel like they go together. I actually, Jinx Monsoon, let me recommend you this book. You know, I love this season. A lot of Jinx's fashion on the runway. Firstly, I'm just so proud of her. Like, she's really turning looks. But like, it's all got this kind of vintage historical slant to it. So I feel like this is the perfect book. Okay, next we have, is it the Vivian still or just Viv? I don't know what we're calling her anymore. What I think of the Vivian, I just think British. I gotta admit, Vivian, we're not, she's not my good books at the moment. I gotta be honest, I never finished season one of the UK Drag Race. I didn't, I'm just, something about it. I just didn't, I didn't love it. I didn't love, I didn't love it. And Vivian and Jinx, obviously, I head to head at the moment. So me and Vivian, I'm kind of like over it. I'm kind of like, I don't want to recommend a book based on it. But I just thought, what is one of the most British gay books that I own? And I've gone for Me, My Dad and the End of the Rainbow by Benjamin Dean. By the way, all these books on this list, I've given four or five stars. They're all books I'd really recommend. So this is a book where Archie sees a pride leaflet fall out of his dad's bag and he goes to pride with his friends in an effort to try and learn more about his dad because his dad and his mum have just split up.  They go to London for pride. There's drag queens in this who help them more towards the second half of the book.  No, no, no. But... I don't want to hear any goddamn excuses anymore. Me and the Vivian aren't friends right now, so I don't really care. And I want to recommend this book to people because I haven't spoken about it for quite a while. But I think it's a great middle grade at exploring the issues that it explores. It was a very fun, enjoyable read that I'd really recommend. Next we have Monet, who other than Jinx is probably who I'm rooting for. I have always really loved Monet in all the seasons that she's been in. I actually saw Monet live. There's a few of these I've seen live actually, but I saw Monet live on her own, which is I think the only drag queen that I've seen on their own show. She came to my university.  And one of my favorite things about Monet is like, she constantly shocks you.  She's like, oh, you know, it's a constant shock. I mean, two of my favorite lip syncs ever. Two of my favorite lip syncs ever.  Secondly, the wig off to the same wig. Yes sis, pop off, go in. You didn't have to snap so hard. I mean, here's the thing. Arguably all stars, I get them all mixed up for, was it that they won? Trinity had a better track record by the time at the end. Trinity was probably who should have won, but Monet demolished her so badly in that lip sync, they had to let both of them win. Like Trinity was like flaying around and Monet was like, oh, the wait. And I wanted to pick a book that had a lot of twists and turns and that is Dead Dead Girls by Nekisa Athia. This is a 1920s mystery where these girls are being murdered in Harlem where our main protagonist lives and she basically decides to like uncover what is going on. And I just feel like it has those twists. It has those whoop, it has some really good twists, especially for a debut. This was a debut. I'm very excited to read the second one in the series, which comes out in a couple of days. Here's the thing, Monet is a bit r- Another reason I picked this is Monet is a little bit rough around the edges sometimes. I think we can all admit that. A little bit rough around the edges sometimes. And this is a little bit sometimes. I gave this four stars because it was a debut.  But on the whole, I really enjoyed a read, a really rememberable read. Rememberable? That's not a word. Memorable. And one that I look on very fondly and I'm very excited to continue on in the series. Next is Miss Jada Essence Hall. I feel like Jada gets forgotten. And that's a part of this book. I feel like this book and Jada go under the radar a bit incorrectly. I feel like Jada is like an all-rounder, all-rounder. She like hits everything. Also great, great looks. We've seen that in the design challenges so far this season. Turns great looks. This book is very beautiful. And I feel like Jada of all the girls is very good at making friends with everyone. She's very good at like uplifting everyone, supporting everyone. So the book I'm going to recommend is The Devil and the Dark Water by Stuart Turton. I love this edition. I just really, really love it. I think it's quite simple with like how the cover bleeds into the design here. But I really, really love it. This is a mystery set in 1634 on this ship where basically they think the devil on the ship, the people on this ship. And one of the most famous world detectives thinks Sherlock Holmes is on the ship, but he's imprisoned. So his equivalent of Watson is the one who has to kind of figure out what's going on. Now, beautiful book. I don't think it's spoken about enough. The author's other book, The Seven Deities of Evelyn Hardcastle is more spoken about, but I think incorrectly. I didn't really like that one, whereas this was five stars. Aside from the mystery, which obviously I loved, one of my favourite parts of this book was the friendships and relationships that are built throughout the book. The main character, he's very good at befriending some of the people on the ship who you wouldn't expect him to befriend. And it kind of makes this like Scooby Gang vibe on the ship that you really just wouldn't expect. So I really, really appreciated it. And yeah, I just think it's forgotten and like not spoken about enough. And I think like Jada, we should uplift them both more. So next is Shea. Again, I think Shea is one of the best all-round performers. Like turning looks, turning acting challenges, turning performance challenges. Now, my history with Shea. I've always loved Shea, but in season nine, she wasn't my favourite. Sasha Valour was my favourite. I really was a Sasha Valour galley. I saw them both at, I can't remember what it's called. It's like some performance tour that a lot of the queens do here in the UK. And I saw them both. And Shea, I was kind of disappointed by her performance live. I was like, hmm. What? It didn't really give me what I wanted. Like out of all the queens. I saw Latrice, I saw Shangela. I saw all these queens, like Kim Chi on this tour. And Shea was kind of like one of the most lackluster ones.  And then Sasha Valour came on and I cried. I was in a sea of quiz. Like, and I was sobbing. Like literally sobbing. I was sobbing. And everyone else was just like woo. And I was like crying, crying. Because Sasha Valour just like hit home. Right. Shea wasn't my favourite. But she has grown on me. She wasn't like, she was probably my second favourite on that season.  But she's really grown on me. And to the point where I see her as like one of the best queens to have come from the show. So the book I'm gonna recommend is Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir.  But I look back on it now as a five star. That doesn't happen to me very often. I don't change my ratings. I need to go and adjust my rating actually for this on Goodreads. This man wakes up on this spaceship. And he doesn't really remember why he's there. Until he kind of slowly realises that he has this impossible task to save humanity in front of him. His crewmates are dead. He's the only one there. And this book has some surprises up its sleeve. Just like Shea does. It has some shocks to it. It has some really great, great plot twists to it. And yeah, I think it's just a book that's grown on me. And I look back on as one of the best sci-fi books I've ever read. I don't know why I rated it lower. I think I just read a five star. There was undisputably a five star. Whereas this is like a better book than that book. It was like a cozy mystery that I read. But I felt like I couldn't give it a five star. But I look back on it as great. And I think that's something special in a book and a drag queen. Next is Evie, who was, in contrast, absolutely my favourite on her season. I loved Evie. And when you think of Evie, just think strange.  So I had to think what is one of the craziest books that I own. But that I absolutely love. And that is Dig by A.S. King. We literally have a character in this called The Freak. The Freak.  They couldn't get any more. Any more perfect. So this is like a story about a family of potato farmers. We have one called The Freak. We have The Shuffler. We have a girl who has a flea circus. A circus of fleas she owns. And it's just one of the strangest books I've ever read. In the way that it's told, in the way that it's structured, in the way that the characters act. It's weird. And A.S. King as a whole, I think I'd recommend if you'd like the strangeness of Evie, you would really like A.S. King. This book at its core is actually, I haven't made a link to this too with Evie, but it's about white privilege and white power and white supremacy and ingrained structures of whiteness that benefit white people and recognising that. And it's very, very interesting how you think it's going to be a story about potato farmers, but it turns out to be much more. It is on the back. YA Master A.S. King explores how a toxic culture of polite, affluent white supremacy tears a family apart and how one determined generation has a shot at digging its way out. So that's kind of what it's about at its core, but it's got all this crazy, wacky stuff going on on the surface that you have to kind of read between the lines on. And finally, we have Trinity, who again is a very good all-round performer. You kind of expect her, remember when I first saw how you expect her to just be looks just like pageantry, but she's great at comedy, great at performances, great at acting challenges, like she really is really great on so many different levels, great at a snatch game we saw this season. So I wanted to pick a book that again was just a perfect all-round book for me that is gorgeous and is a bit of a surprise. It's a bit of like a shock as to where it goes. So I picked Watch Over Me by Nina LeCourt. I read this last year and I mean, firstly, what is that cover if not drag? The hair.  And then look.  Closed, open. She's watching you.  What is that if not drag? This is about a girl who has just aged out of the foster system and so she goes to work at this kind of remote farm that has foster kids there. But it's strange. It's very strange. She's dealing with stuff from her past and it goes in this very strange direction towards the end of the book. I don't want to say much because I kind of forget what's a spoiler and what's not but it's very much a surprise in the way that I feel like Trinity over her course on Drag Race has surprised many people and it goes in a really, really interesting direction and I love it so much more than I could have expected to and I feel the same way about Trinity. So there we have it, everyone. That is all my recommendations based on the queens of RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars 7. Let me know what you're thinking of this season down below. What you thought of my awful recommendations. There would definitely a reach. Let me know who your favorite queen on the season is. I would really, really have to know. Jinx. I mean, Jinx stands stay together though. I feel like you should all be Jinx stands. Anything else is incorrect, I'm joking. But thank you so much for watching. I hope you enjoyed this bit of a different video. I actually had a lot of fun making it. I love you. If you got to the end, comment lipstick emoji. Comment that if you got to the end. I love you and I'll see you very soon in another video. Bye.


All right, so I think we'll get started. I'm your host, Franny French. And I would like to welcome you all to Liquid Margins today, to Northern Annotations, Social Learning, and Canadian Higher Education. And then today's wonderful guests. Unfortunately, one of our wonderful guests was not able to make it. That's Lillian Hogan-Dorn. She's the acting manager of Digital Access and OER at E-Campus Ontario. We love E-Campus Ontario. We're sorry, she wasn't able to be here today. We'll probably, most likely, definitely, I guess, have somebody from E-Campus Ontario on the show in the future. And we, but we do have here today Olga Andrievsky. She's associate professor of history at Trent University. And Fodor Golohagan, he's the associate professor of psychology at Trent University as well. And our moderator today is Nate Angel. And he's the director of marketing at Hypothesis. And with that, I'm going to stop sharing my screen and turn it over to Nate. And Nate, if you'd like to reintroduce our guests and ask them if they have anything they'd like to kick it off with. Thanks so much. Yeah, thanks for getting us going, Franny. And it's really, I'm really excited to be here. And just as a caveat, like if you're not from Canada, it's OK. We have a lot of Canadians here, our guests are Canadian. And but if you're not from Canada, that's fine. In the audience, we will be talking about social annotation more broadly. And so I'm sure it will apply across the border as well. If you happen to be in the United States or in some other country, that would be great. So as Franny said, I'm Nate. And I joined here with my colleagues from Hypothesis, Franny. And then we've also got Aaron Barker is here and able to answer technical questions that might come up. So if you have those, feel free to put them in the chat. Because these shows, we tend to talk about the pedagogy and sort of the interesting human angles of social annotation more than the technical nitty gritty. And so if you have kind of more specific questions, feel free to put them in the chat. And someone like Aaron can answer. We also have a few other Hypothesis folks here. Like I saw that Lori's here who is actually in Canada herself. And even though she works for Hypothesis, because we're a completely distributed organization, Gina is also here. So there's a whole bunch of people ready to answer your questions in the chat if you have anything that we're not addressing in the conversation itself. But then without further ado, I'd like to kind of switch over to talk with our guests for a little while. And we'll have some time for questions and answers with the audience later. But to start off, I was wondering Olga, if you might say a couple of words about kind of your practice, like what it is that you do as an educator. And then I'd love to know how you came to learn about social annotation and Hypothesis and how you first brought it into your work. Yeah, I'm a historian at Trent University. And for those of you, I can see from the chat there are a whole bunch of people there from Trent. So I don't, and from Southern Ontario, who don't need an explanation of what Trent University is. But for those of you who don't know, it's a small liberal arts college or university with a history of emphasis on small group teaching, especially in the humanities. And so we, our department in general and the English department, we've been teaching for decades using the whole seminar system, which is fantastic. So there was always an emphasis right from the start on student interaction and participation and all of that. I stumbled into Hypothesis during one of the workshops that was being offered at the beginning of the pandemic when we were all trying to figure out how we were gonna teach in this new world of remote and online teaching. And in particular, it was a course being offered by Brent Bellamy from the English department who was part of the first pilot program and was using it in his course. And there was no discussion or emphasis on Hypothesis, but the minute I saw it, I was really, really, really interested because one of the things that I try to do in my teaching in general is to shift the emphasis to social learning. I teach Soviet history. I teach and in particular course on the history of the Soviet Union. And then a fourth year course I'm teaching this year on the Second World War and the Soviet Union. And that's a seminar course, so there are no lectures. And that's where I'm using Hypothesis because it's an intensive reading and discussion course. And it's a year-long course. So I've had the luxury of being able to use the program for an entire year. And I've made some small accommodations, but I told my students right away that this is an experiment and I've been watching it and sort of making a few adjustments, as I've said, along the way. And I haven't used it in my third year course. It's a semester-long course, but the fourth year course really lent itself well to this. And it's hard for me to say on the basis of one year how successful it is. I will say my students are fantastic. And I don't know if they were gonna be fantastic no matter what or the degree to which, Hypothesis has kind of drawn them in even further into the course. And I'll let Fergal speak. I don't want to monopolize all the time, but I will say the thing that surprised me is the way, and this was unanticipated, the way in which it keeps students engaged with each other outside of that weekly slot when we're together. So I have two groups, they're really nice students, but I get the sense that it's really help them engage as a community. And so the experience I've had so far, small, not a big sample, I don't wanna draw too many conclusions from it, but I see a lot of positives that would make me wanna continue using the program. Yeah, that's really interesting to hear and that idea of building community around reading, I think is really, that's something that we are sort of talk about a lot and are really interested in understanding how that happens in different contexts. So I'd love to talk about that more during the show, but yeah, let's, let me ask sort of the same question to Fergal in a sense, first, how did you come to learn about social annotation and start using it? But also if you wanted to expand on anything that Olga had introduced us to about Trent and kind of what your classes are like, especially during these pandemic times, that would be interesting to hear as well. Yeah, well, likewise, I stumbled upon it by chance kind of, I came on board as the acting director of TrentOnline last summer, and it was, I've been, you know, the idea of social learning is really interesting because my team has been teaching me so much about online learning. And like Olga, I went through the professional development training last summer, picked up a lot from that, but my introduction to hypothesis was actually when we were, Maureen Glenn, who's our senior e-learning designer, has been organizing our pilot and I was introduced to it at a meeting that where we were meeting with some of the faculty who were using it and they started talking about it and I thought, this is really neat. I know where I could use this. And so I incorporated it into my fourth year seminar course, which is a team-based structure like Olga, our courses in psych sort of lower years tend to be larger than the humanities, but by fourth year where our seminar courses are 20 to 25 sort of thing. So a way in mind is structured on a team, has a team structure to it. So students work in teams of five and the task that they have to go about is basically doing like sort of layered group work that eventually builds, the course is called models of self-control. So it's about building explanatory models for why people behave as they do and applying those models to the development of programs. And so the students start reading papers and extracting behavioral outcomes but determinants of behavior. So the things that sort of influence our behavior in terms of our internal experiences and things in the environment. And I thought hypothesis would be a perfect tool for them to start to get access to those things through their readings and to start to build conversations. And so that's how I came to it and that's sort of where I saw it fitting into my course and it's been, I would say like I've taught that course in a different format a number of times previously and hypothesis has been a really nice feature that I will definitely continue with when we go back to face-to-face teaching with that course. Like it's a must have now, I think for me, yeah. Wow, that's a strong testimonial. And I'm curious about, just to follow up a little bit on what you said there about this idea of continuing social annotation in a face-to-face environment because I think a lot of people like y'all did sort of end up learning about and starting to use hypothesis during the pandemic when things moved to remote. And yet, can you say more about how you would think about using it and when teaching is fully face-to-face? We're all good?  Either way. So the course, yeah, so I've also used, I'm using Microsoft Teams to organize the teamwork which is another thing I'm going to continue with or something like that. And I had prior to hypothesis, I had been using discussion boards which I've found to be like, there are ways of using them, I guess, that are helpful but it was in previous iterations of the course it was kind of getting to like post once, reply twice kind of thing and getting very, I don't know, like just wrote and uninteresting for students. And so with hypothesis, what I find I can do is not turn the students loose into the course but it's like, okay, so listen gang, this is what you need to be looking for in these papers because this is what you're gonna need for your models. Go find it, all right? Take a couple of days on your own reading through them and then flip it to group public view and then start talking about it between yourselves, right? As to what you can use. And I've found that they're like the depth of reading in the papers has generally been better, much better where, I mean, they have that direction as to where they need to be going with it but they'll be in their initial reads you can see where they're annotating, oh, okay so this is something we need to look at, determine it they'll be defining things, outcome expectancy, what does that mean, right? And then I mean, as they get more familiar and sophisticated with it the sophistication of their annotations increases as well and so it's just a better way. It is just a better way of doing it versus the previous method I was using in the course so Olga. Yeah, and I'll give you a chance here to go right in that same direction but this idea of how the discussion forum untethered to the text can be a sort of like less useful way to have that kind of discussion but when you anchor the discussion inside the text that allows for new kinds of possibilities. So Olga, do you also think of using social annotation after remote teaching is a past? Oh yeah, no, it's absolutely. I mean, my goal in the course is to get students to read text as interpretation and it's what I did before the pandemic it's what I'll do after the pandemic and actually having them go through the text together looking for an argument, looking for an interpretation is really, really important. And the best students will always, their students will get that immediately but there are other students for whom it takes a really long time and this is a way of speeding up the process because they see the other students engaging in that kind of discussion. I mean, the other thing I'd say is that in my fourth year course on the Soviet Union and the Second World War, I have a mix of students who've had some Soviet history before and students who have had no Soviet history before and some students who are real military buffs so they know all sorts of things that I don't even know. And what's fabulous is that the students who've had haven't had Soviet history can say, what's that? And then without having me to come in as the authority another student who's had some familiarity can jump in and say, well, that's what it is or somebody could just even look it up from Wikipedia and put in a definition. And so that's a whole different dimension of what they get to do that would be lost in the face-to-face of a classroom. So by the time we get to discuss this as a whole group together in a seminar they've already done quite a bit of learning. Yeah, and that's a pattern that we've heard before where it's when you do come together for synchronous discussion whether that's on Zoom or maybe live face-to-face when we can do that, having the socially annotated reading power and inform that then later group discussion can really change the game quite a bit. I see folks in the chat getting frustrated as they often do in these shows because we're talking about kind of highfalutin' ideas here and they're still like, but wait, how does it work? So I can understand that and we have other ways for them to learn how the nitty-gritty of how it works. But I'm wondering, Olga, you had talked before about maybe being more specific about how you actually orchestrate the use of it in your course. And you've mentioned a couple of things already about how you use it. So exactly what kinds of readings are you assigning? Are they PDFs or web articles? And then what is, are there certain assignments? How do you ask the students to get involved in the annotation specifically? Yeah, I saw that somebody asked a question Becky Rudd asked if hypothesis is used for all course readings. I made a decision before the course started that I would use it every single week because I didn't want them sort of thinking, oh, is this the week we have to do it? Oh, great, we don't have to do it. I wanted them to get into a rhythm and a routine. Every once in a while I will just say you don't have to annotate this one, but annotate this one and give them a little bit of a break that way. But it's been pretty much routine. I use PDFs, I put them on Google Drive and then use the web tool link so that they can't do the course readings without going to hypothesis. So it's pretty straightforward for them in that regard. Sorry, go ahead. Did I miss a question? No, I think that was good, similar to Fergal. So what kinds of readings, how do you get them in front of students? And you already did mention a little bit about how you make the assignment that compared to say a discussion forum assignment like you were talking about, how is it that you get students to like see the annotation as an active part of the course? Well, I assign a participation grade. So it's really, well, and this is kind of standard for seminar courses in our university, 25% of their final grade is seminar discussion and participation. And one of the attractions for me initially of hypothesis was this was yet another way to allow students who maybe don't like to speak up in a discussion in a room full of people who might feel a lot more comfortable just being able to engage in a different way. And over a period of time too because they can walk away from it and come back. We use Blackboard at Trent. So that's the gateway to posting all of this stuff. Yeah, and Fergal, do you wanna go down that same road? I saw you unmute for a second there. Yeah, so I mean, I can share what it looks like, Nate. That would be great. Yeah, if you wanna try sharing your screen and get people a little tour, that would be great. And then they'll have a little bit of visual cues about how it works. So I've got a couple of, I'm just gonna share this. So that's our campus. Ah, looks icy. This is last week, so it's getting better. Okay. That's spring in Canada. That is, yeah. So the team's site is set up so that the way the course is structured, there are groups assigned to different behavioral intervention targets. So this year, there's a group assigned to reducing single-use plastics. One assigned to stress reduction among clients at a community health center related to COVID. And so there's five of these groups and they're set up on teams to be able to work back and forth. So a lot of their work starts there and then where are we here? Where is my... You're nimbly moving around though. I'm impressed by your screen sharing already. I just wanted to find my screen share for my, it's not it, that's my email. Looks like you got some email to answer. I do. It's a continual battle. I'm just trying to find my browser. Yeah, sorry. While you're looking for that, I'll take the pressure off too. And so one thing that I think both of you might address is if how you, this is coming from the audience, Francesco asked this question about if you actually seed readings with your own annotations or maybe you participate in the discussion after the students have gotten going. So I do see the readings and their annotations. And so what I've been doing is like all guys. So I post the readings go into a Google Drive and then a link is set up to our learning management system site on Blackboard. The students access the readings through Blackboard. So when I click on them, when they click on them, it's a direct link to the reading and they get into their annotation. And then I'm able to follow in behind them and comment on the papers. I see it there now. Comment on the papers. And so what I typically do, if you can see that is I'll make a page note on the paper. So this is for our single use plastics group. And here the researchers were looking at, figuring out determinants of behavior for plastic use. And my comment here is, this looks like a nice three step study and looking at ecological product marketing. And then I make orienting comments for them. And then as you can see, and I'm not gonna reveal here because it's my students, you can see there's 25 annotations in this paper. The annotations are ranging from seven up to like nine, there were 95 in one paper. And they'll be of sort of a variety of levels of engagement with the students. Some of them will be going in and defining a term. Some of them will be, you know, identifying a particular intervention method as something that they might consider for their intervention program. And then you start to see the conversation build on that where the other members will go in and they'll add thoughts. And as I said, like one thing that I'm noticing over the course of the term is the depth of annotations, not in all groups, I wouldn't say that, but the depth of thought that's going into the annotations is increasing. And then like with the annotations, I assign, there's a 10% of the grade is for the annotations, which is, you know, there are other things that go into the grade, but in terms of the direct participation, I look at the social annotation as a proxy for that. But it's not, when I talk to the students about their annotations, it's not like, oh, how many, did I do enough? Or how many do, well, it started, they started, of course, how many do you want, right? And then of course, I give them some obscure answer that doesn't really answer that, but sort of nudges them along to find their way. And then, but now it's like they need, they want the annotations, they find the annotations so helpful because the next step in the process is writing article summaries for an annotated bibliography. And they, you know, they're telling me that, oh, well, I just go to my annotations and I just build my article summary based on that. And so that's how it looks in the course. And on, you know, I've just got it set up so that there's links in Blackboard that take you, take them to their papers. Papers are in these folders. Folders have the links. And then that takes the links, take them in, yeah. So that's- That makes total sense. And thank you, you addressed a couple of things that folks in the chat were asking about, about grading and so forth. And I'm interested in this idea of keeping the number of required annotations sort of ambiguous. I've heard Gardner Campbell, if you know him, a professor of English, Olga might know him down in Virginia, has long made the case that being less specific about what you want students to give back can kind of force them to find their own way, like you were saying, Furgl. And I just, as a clarification note for folks, you saw Furgl show off a page note that he had made. So the difference between annotations and page notes is that the page note is sort of like a note on the document as a whole, whereas the annotations are anchored in specific highlights in the text itself. And so Furgl's obviously using the page notes there as the sort of general introductory annotation on the document as a whole, that makes sense. And so Olga, back to you. Do you also have a practice where you precede the readings with your own annotations to kind of spark the students off? No, I don't. What I do is I've told them all along that there's a way to read history. So what's crucial is identifying the main argument, talking about, or identifying sources and evidence, talking about approach and all of that. I want them to sort of train themselves to think of certain questions whenever they read. So I don't go in, I actually don't participate in their discussions on hypothesis. One of the things, I mean, this is something for me to think about for the future. If a class meets at four o'clock, they're often working on hypothesis at three o'clock. So in the future, what I would do is have a cutoff period, say two o'clock or something, so that I could actually go and look at the comments before the class. But I have two groups, so the hypothesis groups can't be too large. And because then otherwise students find that they have nothing to say, especially if they're late to the whole thing. But I do make them both groups available and I keep them up, because one of the things we keep doing is going back and talking about readings we've done earlier in the year and making comparisons and all of that. And the notes are there for them all year long to look at. And I think that's really useful for them as a kind of memory prompt. Yeah, that makes sense. And so you're actually finding that students are coming back to the same reading and maybe annotating for a second round sometimes. I don't think they're annotating the second time around, but they're going back and looking at it. And I know that the students in one group are really curious about the students in the other groups. So they are reading each other's comments. So there's learning going on in that way. I mean, the other thing is that, beyond the questions that I pose for them that they should be asking every time, students are also commenting on things they find really interesting. And for me, that's been a wonderful experience because they will sometimes take the whole discussion in a direction in which I hadn't anticipated. And we end up talking about something that's important, something that they see that maybe I didn't see in the same way. So there's a lot of learning going on, a lot of social learning going on. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's awesome to hear. And Fergal, I think I interrupted you. You unmuted there. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I do go in and I do have a presence in their annotations. So if I'm working through the annotations and more so, I'd say at the start of the term or earlier in the term, but I will comment on, and I don't really comment. I ask questions of them to orient them towards certain things I think, maybe they're not picking up on or things that they need to follow up with. In this course, each of the groups are assigned a professional advisor who works in the field. And so I'll suggest to them that they follow up with a professional advisor to see how relevant this is to the context that they're developing their programs in. Yeah. And both of you are hitting on something that I think is really crucial. I mean, obviously you're talking about relatively advanced courses here. These don't sound like introductory courses, right? And they're relatively small, I'm guessing. Fergal, how big is your class in terms of students? So I have 23. Okay. That's a pretty small site course, that trend. Yeah. And Olga, how large is your class? I have 25 students, but I've broken them up into two seminar groups. Okay, right. So kind of split them in half, right? So this, but one of the things I wanted to draw out was, I see in both of your practices here that part of what the reading and the annotated reading is doing is helping set up students for writing. And I think that there's a really interesting connection, right, between how we read and how we can empower that so that it informs our writing. And I'm wondering if that resonates with you as if you've seen a change or in the practices around writing. I mean, Fergal, you already mentioned how they're using their annotations in their summaries. Yeah. And what like, sorry, I'll jump in Olga because I tell them right at the start, there is no wasted work in this course. If you want to write, if you want to develop a solid program and document it, this is the process through which you would go. And so their annotations build their article summaries, their article summaries build their annotated bibliographies which build their visualized models and all of the work products that they need to go into a great final paper. And so the social annotation really outs the cognitive and social process that goes on in developing their writing as thinking over time. It just, it makes it explicit for them. I'm not sure how many of them kind of cop onto that but I'm sure they do, but they do recognize that the value of it. Yeah. Yeah, in this course and in my fourth year course they write historiographical essays. So they are always in every essay they're comparing interpretations. So the more they're discussing interpretation as interpretation in hypothesis, the more they can conceptualize writing an essay that compares in interpretations. So yeah, again, it would be curious for me to see over a couple of years whether there's a noticeable, where there's a noticeable sort of advance in their writing and thinking. I've been telling myself I just have a really exceptional group this year. Sometimes it might be the special class, right? Who knows what the special ingredients are or maybe the pandemic has made everyone a better student. I don't know. That'd be hard to believe in these circumstances. Another thing that I'm really noticing we've been sort of answering a lot of the questions that have come up in the chat along the way. So if there are other questions folks please feel free to put them in the chat if you feel like we haven't addressed them yet. But the other thing I'm really noticing in both your work, especially in yours Virgil but also in Olga's is that you're having these students read, I'll call it real works, right? You're not having them read some textbook that summarizes something. These are real journal articles and real primary and secondary sources that they would use in their scholarly or professional lives moving forward. And so in a way, they're practicing the kinds of skills that they would need to advance either academically or professionally to go to that next level. And I'm kind of, I'm inspired to see how maybe this practice of annotation can lead us away from having folks spend a lot of time with, I don't wanna say dumb down texts but texts that don't come from the real world and touch on the real professional and scholarly futures, if you will. And so I'm wondering Olga, if you found that in your work it does seem like you have folks focused on what I'm calling these real texts. Oh yeah, and by the end of the year, one of our goals is to have them understand what the state of research is. That is they've read the major works and what's really fun is they get to read historians who violently disagree with each other and it really prepares them well for a graduate school. It's a good sort of bridging class. And so yeah, that's the way I've always taught it and this just kind of adds another dimension. Yeah, and Fergo, yours, I mean, it almost seems like your class is like specifically preparing them for professional activity, right? Yeah, so the way I've set it up in contrast to prior offerings, which were more, I say sort of more theoretically oriented. This was putting theory into action, like purposing it. And so I set the course up as a consultancy and the students are consultants in training. And they start with scenarios relating to behavior change. You know, as I mentioned, a couple of them there, reducing single use plastics. So that group is connected to their professional advisor is the executive director of Peterborough Greenup, which is the community organization that is associated with everything environmental in town. And so they meet with their community advisor. They, their task then is to go back into the literature, look to see what's known about the behavior in question and it's determinants and then bring that into a model. First of all, that identifies, you know, why this problem is happening. And then secondly, a model of change, which identifies what targets there, what things we might target to change that behavior. And then in the final phase, sorry, I think my notifications are going off here. It's final phase. Then they write up a program based on that. And it's applied in that way, but this would be like, I would like to see if I had a student coming in, a graduate student to supervise who was coming in with this kind of a background, they would have a foot up. So I think both, you know, practice, professional practice as well as advanced studies, this kind of having this kind of background would be beneficial for them. And, you know, having used the social annotation through the process, let's them see what good process is. That makes total sense. I'm really impressed by how it seems to be working out for you and I'll just mention here and I'll ask Franny to put a link in the chat to kind of get at this idea that Olga brought up of, it would be interesting to see how this affects student writing over time. There's a really vibrant research project going on that just got kicked off this year at Indiana University. It's in kind of introductory composition in English classes, but it's specifically investigating this question of the degree to which social annotation can have an effect on kind of reading and writing practices over time. It's a multi-year study actually, so we can put a link into the chat for folks. So there'll be new data coming out about that soon. So I know Virgil at least has something that he needs to get to coming up. There was one last question that I saw come through in the chat that I thought we might address just as a sort of farewell. So if you wanna add on anything else that you wanna say as we're leaving too, as you answer this question that I'll pose to you, that would be great and then we can close it up so everyone can get on to their next meeting. So annotations themselves can kind of serve as scholarly objects, right? And we talked about students using them in their writing and Francisco has asked if you have or have seen the students actually refer back to and link to annotations they've made in their writing, in their writing, other writing in the course, like do they serve, do the annotations themselves serve as sort of primary scholarly objects for them in their further writing? You wanna try that one all go? Yeah, I haven't. Students do talk about each other's comments in discussion. So in that respect, it does enter into the seminar itself. I'm trying to imagine how I might do that. It's still a new world for me. So I'm just feeling it out. I see it in, so in their article summaries, the first bit of it is a summary of the research. And then the wrap up is a critical evaluation of the study and I see the annotations coming through in that part of their article summaries where you can see how things that they've talked about in annotating the papers then are expressed in the article summary. Great, well, this has been such a great conversation. So much to unpack from everything that you've shared. And this has been recorded and we'll be sharing it out. It'll probably be up on the site by Monday. So if anyone wants to review it, we'll be sharing that out.  I really wanna thank Fergal and Olga for being here today. Really appreciate your spending the time with us to share your practice. It's super interesting for me and I'm sure it was for the audience too. Thank you Olga. Thank you. It was so great to have you here and thank you Fergal. Thanks, Nate and Franio. Yeah, thank you so much. I'd just like to say thank you to both of you. So again, thank you for coming to Liquid Margins today and we will see you next time.


Yeah, and there was a lot of stuff with the buildings on 8th Street that stuff was just covered up to modernize it But then it was an event when it's like My eyes into the updated I saw that you sent it I didn't get a chance because I put on Well good morning morning commission We got Sue and Stephanie John and rich Emily and Josh, but We do not have a quorum so therefore I cannot well this will not be an official meeting However, we'll go forward. There's a lot of information. We won't like to share So saying no quorum. We'll just move forward, but we will start with a pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance One nation Okay, we will start by introducing our newest members Stephanie gets can you tell us a little bit about yourself Stephanie sure I'm Stephanie. I'm lifelong member or resident of Sheboygan I'm director of operations at Sheboygan senior community, which is a non-profit senior living organization I Have my degree in marketing and a master's in business administration And I am excited to be a part of the commission to advocate for our seniors as well as for the city of Sheboygan And do what I can to move us forward Thank You Stephanie. So we'll move forward We have to table the Approval minutes till next month, so we'll do that But we can do a lot of discussion. I didn't we just kind of take any action today. So programming Josh all right update. I still haven't seen rich at my dancing classes, but that's okay. Yeah Maybe one day programs are going well Similar numbers still we haven't really seen any more of a drop-off at the summer We introduced our mahjong instructional class this month Which filled up in that was like what two a week or two? The biggest thing this summer and I guess since we've still been offering programs are just the monthly programs are just filling up Superfast still Maryland's cooking class is still always having attendance. We had a seas trip On Monday, which went really well. It's really good weather out there for that And then we have another like monthly trip next month with see when the trolley. That's already filling up a lot So the monthly ones are still Really good participation numbers the daily ones have been staying the same for the rest of the summer looking at probably October just looking at different programs that we can Offer for the new building once we send out that survey to participants just to get an idea of what they want and then Kind of go from there, but that's my quick program update. Great. Well, that's a great lead in one of the charges we had so I went forward to put together a interest survey As you can see that the first one are the current program Josh gave me a list in the current programs and They're gonna, you know show an interest in it and then whether they attend 10 or don't attend and then whether they're a member past member or non-member and then The second part are the programs that we had but currently not in The last one with some possible new programs in my suggestion was birdwatching. So we'll see if anybody's interested in birdwatching So And I think that Emily said that the mayor's intern could maybe put this on survey monkey and send out to all our Participants and see hopefully, you know, if we get 30% Response that would be great. So so hopefully and you know feel free to tweak it any way you want it So hopefully we'll get some and my wife and I did it already. So we have two survey takers So very good, okay Great great tour yesterday Emily of the new building. I was impressed on how much space it is I see me the old building from the outside. I didn't believe how much Space was inside but it's looking good. Yeah. Yeah, so for those watching We had a hard hat tour for commission and friends board members yesterday and I think we have about 10 that But so for a lot of people that was their first time in the building and I'm fortunate to be able to go Every other week for a meeting with the contractors and every time I go It's wildly different in there But I echo richest sentiments that it just feels so much bigger in real life Then it does when we look at our little floor plan print out. So The contractors are making great progress things are humming along still on track for November occupancy and Nothing too dramatic to need feedback on or to report out to the group things are just moving forward Todd How did you how do you feel the progress is being made a city manager? Okay Okay, good. Yeah for those who didn't hear Todd said that he Good progress even though there's little setbacks now and then but they're always being taken care of so thank you Moving on along with that one of the things that we're we're really Stressing is adding the third staff members. So Emily you want to give an update on that? Sure. Sure. So Rich and then Scott who's the friends board president and I had several meetings with city administrator Todd wolf to talk about reactivating a third full-time position to help us run the building when it opens and also met with Alderperson Feldy who's our council person rep on this commission who couldn't be with us this morning But she was amenable that as we are ready to move into our new building It makes sense for us to add it to bring back a third full-time employee So this is something that's in the city's table of organization the person that was in this role previously Left as there was no building to operate. So the position has been open for it'll be almost two years So actually this coming Monday July 25th at 5 p.m The position will be on the agenda for discussion at the city's personnel and finance committee so I'm encouraging supporters to attend not to speak But to show solidarity in the room will be right here in council chambers That's Monday at 5 p.m. To just show up and show Approval of us adding a third person and If all goes well at that meeting then it will be up for discussion the following Monday at 6 p.m At the full council meeting so that would be August 1st the word is out that you would like some support because My wife and her duties as doing foot care a lot of the participants were talking about the position and the need for it So and the support so somehow the word is out there good good and while we're talking about staffing I would it would be inappropriate not to recognize Josh's one-year anniversary, which was yesterday So thank you Josh for being a part of our team and happy anniversary, and I heard you got a big cake. I got cake I got lemon bars chocolate a Lot of cards It was good time Our people take very good care of us Josh But any other questions or comments about the the staffing and thanks to Mr. Wolf for his support. We appreciate that Yes, so one of the things that and I had to have been talking to Barb Feldy about and I didn't realize it is that Now that we're moving forward and we're called uptown social We're going to need to do a little bit of tweaking of the city ordinances that that run our Position here and and there's two areas that have one is Emily's position Which is the director and I'm just to highlight a few things from it. It's ordinance on Section 2-422 if anyone wants to go online and actually read it but so the Common Council points the Director of senior services and At one time with senior activity director, but now it's called director senior services which is a little more all-encompassing because For those and Stephanie one of the things we are also in a charge with doing is Looking over the livability shabuigan livability which we've kind of put on hold because of the building But once that we're in the building then we're really going to move forward on that and well and I'll share AARP, Wisconsin is holding a two and a half day Meeting in Madison in September for Wisconsin's livable communities So I'm planning on attending along with Chad Peleshek the director of planning good good So then we could you know we can reinstate that and get that moving so So Emily's position they help direct the policy of the senior activity center That's the services The operation it's all basically Emily is in charge of the building is Really what the new ordinance states and then also there's a few things on the other section that will have to be Tweeted because for instance that it still says senior activities center, so we're going to change that to uptown social within it This committee can it's supposed to have eight members and one council member So nine nine members total and I think we're at that right now. I think we have one vacancy. We have Andrew Know from Jeannie. Oh Jean. Yeah, we have one. We we have one So and the mayor makes final point point minutes and the common council approves it. There's three your terms And you can have two consecutive three-year terms and then you have to be off a year And then you can get back on so that kind and a few of us have done that so we're supposed to Meet and elected chairperson and vice chairperson. We should update that language here, too So um in May well, we didn't do it in May and we haven't done it now. So I guess I continue Till a new election comes so on and that's basically in here the hours are operation Says from eight to four, but I know that has been changed. So yeah, so I think at the September meeting Yeah, we got to make sure that that's changing this but One other place I saw is that you make you can make the determination of ours So there's a new section in 24-7. Yeah, right Is that why that jacuzzi So basically that's that so as we move forward We're gonna need to change a few of the ordinances to support where we're going with that so That is that so is that's really everything we have for today because we don't have a quorum But hopefully in September we do we do the next meeting September 21st Here and what we're gonna do then for the second next meeting in November We're gonna push that off and we're gonna have a joint meeting at I'm with the friends again, but then after that after we have a meeting here We hope to all head over to the new activity center and kind of have a Get some coffee and just enjoy the new building and hear about what's going on here So try out the jacuzzi So with that I will adjourn the meeting so thank you for coming and thanks everyone out there for listening Yeah


All right, welcome back. This is the Breakfast and Plus TV Africa. We are looking at health issues. Specifically yesterday was the World Hypertension Day. We'll be looking at all of that this morning. In the wake of VTOL, the Hypertension Day that is which has, as a theme, a measure, your blood pressure accurately control it, leave longer. A medical expert, including the World Health Organization, Nigeria Medical Association Enemy, and the Najin Heart Foundation, NHF, have warned that the prevalence of hypertension in the country is on the rise. Now, these days set is due to prevailing insecurity in poor socioeconomic condition. Specifically, Executive Director of the NHF, Dr. Kingsley Akiri, said the prevalence of hypertension is estimated to be between 30% and 40% of Nigeria's over 200 million population, which is in the range of 60 to 80 million Nigerians. We're looking at the impact of all of this. We have a public health practitioner from the market doctor, Dr. Gehtundi Ayo Oyalo. Thanks, Oyalo. Thanks for joining us on the breakfast this morning. Good morning, everybody. Yeah, good morning. Thanks for joining me. Yeah, it is indeed a pleasure. Striking number of statistics there, about 60 to 80 million Nigerians have hypertension. It is also a limit that most of them are not actually seeking treatment because they're not even aware that they have hypertension. Tell us what the incidence is like in the country. Okay, so good morning, everybody, again. So we already have the incidence. I mean, Dr. Kureya said between 30 to 40% of the population, and that's the data we have, but we know that most of the time, data in Nigeria isn't very accurate because the data you have is probably from people coming into the hospitals, not even from screening exercises, going on across the country. So because hypertension is a silent killer, most people is referred to as a silent killer because you're not likely to have any symptoms. You're not likely to feel anything. By the time people start to feel symptoms, then it means that there is already an advancement of the condition. So I mean, it's difficult to say this is the exact number, but we know that because of the factors that are skewed towards us, being that we're black, when you're black, the incidence is higher. Of course, it's also higher in men. So because we have all of that, we know that there will be a lot of people that are hypertensive. Whether they now know they are hypertensive or not is another kettle of fish, so that's what I have to say. So let's get to, because at this point in time, we have to find out the causes and how we can prevent or manage a situation. So what are the likely causes of this? A lot of people will think that, I mean, if you're into a lot of thinking and all of that, you probably might just have a tendency of becoming hypertensive.  Can you currently take us through what would be the likely causes of being hypertensive? So the causes of hypertension are varied, you know? And there are some causes, there are some things we call the risk factors, because you cannot, for some people, it's inherited, it's hereditary. It's just part of their genetic makeup.  But even in these cases, for those that is genetic, there are ways that they can prevent, you know, being hypertensive or, let me say, manage, you understand, getting to the extremes of being hypertensive, manage the symptoms and signs and the, what do I call it, the complications that may arise. However, generally speaking, we have things like being overweight, you know, as a cause of hypertension, being obese. We have lack of physical activity. I mean, when I mean physical activity, we know that a lot of people now fall out, walking, jogging and all of that. But I must say that each person needs to have a definite way of exercising. It's not one cup fits all. So the fact that someone walks for one hour doesn't mean that the other person who can walk for one hour and be sufficient for the person. So we really need to be specific in the kind of exercises, kind of physical activity we're doing. The other thing that I will say is too much salt in the diet. And we know in this part of the world in Nigeria, we take a lot of salt and we're saying that we should not add salt to food once it's on the table because a lot of times, you know, even though we put salt in food, then we add it to the table. Too much alcohol is also one of the causes of hypertension and we'll aggravate it in someone who already has hypertension. So we're advocating because I know this will be a salt point for a lot of people. We're advocating that we should not have more than one to two drinks per day. Then stress. Stress is also a cause of hypertension and in the country where we know that stress, virtually everybody is stressed for one reason or the other, whether the reason or the other even concerns you. But when you look at the economy, you look at the diesel, Egypt, petrol, traffic, I mean, there's a lot of stress factors. Assault strike and all of that. And that is to say that before hypertension used to be seen in people older than 40, but this has reduced now. We're having people in their tatties being diagnosed as hypertensive. Then of course, they already age. The tendency that someone will also be hypertensive. Then there are other diseases like kidney diseases and renal diseases that could cause hypertension. But I think generally I've glossed through the causes of hypertension. All right, Doctor, are you all right? Let's talk more about hypertension. Maybe it's to get better clarity. Hypertension, high blood pressure. Does it inevitably mean that if you have high blood pressure, automatically you are hypertensive? So high blood pressure is somewhat classified. It's somewhat classified. And if I go in for the sake of those who are listening, I don't think the classification is important for them. I think it's the number that is important for them. And we normally say in the medical client that people should know their number. People should know their number. And we are saying that in 2022, your normal blood pressure should be, we measure it saying a number over another number. They're saying high blood pressure should be, should your blood pressure measurement should be about 120 over 80. 120 being the higher measurement. That's a systolic, we call it a systolic. But that's not, the name is not important now. That's the upper number should be 120 or lower. And the lower number should be 80 or lower. So 120 over 80 should be the end. If you fall above 120, maybe you are still overing 130 over 80 over 85, then you are having an elevated, it's not yet high potential, but you are having an elevated blood pressure. And in this situation, there are still things you can do that can bring the blood pressure down to normal.  But when we have blood pressure above 130, 90, 130 to 139, 130 to 140 over 90, then we can definitely say that the person is hypertensive and the person needs care. And when I mean care, the person needs adjustment of lifestyle and medications as well to be able to control the blood pressure. So maybe we need to get to the fundamental. I mean, what exactly is hypertension? So simply putting it simply is just to say increase in the pressure of the blood. Increase in blood pressure. And I would just say use the example of a water pipe. You know, if you're using a water pipe and it's, let me say diameter is wide, or if the water pipe is big, if the pipe is big, then when you pump in water, the pressure will be low because I mean, there's a lot of space for it to pass through. But in hypertension, it means that when you put in water into that pipe, the ball maybe may have become thinner and it takes a lot of pressure for the water to come out. So it's actually gushing.  That is when we call, what do we call hypertension? When that happens in the blood system, that is hypertension. Normally the blood should move around the body without any pressure, you understand? But all within, let me say all within a particular pressure range, we should be lower than 120, 80. We should be around that. But whenever there is an increase in this pressure, then that is when we can see there's a condition called hypertension in the person. So you talked about lifestyle adjustment and, you know, living better lives as it were. But specifically now, you also talked about medication. Is it something that you have to be placed on for the rest of your life, or it's something that goes away after a particular time? Okay, so I'm really happy to talk about this because a trend that we're not going to see in Nigeria is that people share medications for hypertension. You know, a brother, a sister comes to visit a brother and says, oh, I've been told I have high blood pressure, or in the normal parlance, they said I have BP, you know? And the brother brings out a pack of drugs and says, this is what I'm using. You to go and get it, you know, and start using it. So we have people just prescribe them to each other, you know, by using the packets of medications and, you know, just getting to the pharmacy and taking those medications. I want to say that that is not how to treat high blood pressure. I think the first thing is that it must be diagnosed by a medical practitioner and there are lots of primary healthcare centers, private hospitals, available where you can actually see a doctor and get a proper measurement and assessment because apart from the measurement, the doctor will also want to know what the cost is. Sometimes the cost of the high blood pressure can be treated. So sometimes it's not just about taking the blood pressure drugs that maybe someone close to you, a friend or a relative is using. Sometimes they may need to actually treat what is costing it and once that is treated, your blood pressure will return to normal. The other thing to note is that blood pressure cannot be treated at once. It's not an infectious disease like malaria or chest infection that once you've been given the dose and you take it, that's the end. No, blood pressure has to be, it's a medication you have placed on and that you will probably take throughout your life but the medications will not be taken the same way and that's why it's important that if you have been diagnosed as being hypertensive, you need to visit your medical practitioner regularly at least once in a month because as the money you try your blood pressure, if it's decreasing, if you're doing well with the medication, they may adjust the medication and reduce it and who knows if they're able to treat the cost. Now, after some time, you may be able to manage it with lifestyle adjustment. So for some people, if you are regular with your medical practitioner and you are able to monitor it and treat it, you may be able to revert back to manage it with lifestyle adjustment but if that is not the case, the medications you are using needs to be monitored and sometimes if we find that the blood pressure is not being treated properly, we may decide to increase the medications. Sometimes we may decide to change the medication altogether. Sometimes we may also need to monitor the side effects of the medication. If you're having side effects with the medication, you may need to monitor it or counsel you on how to use the medication. But Doctor, let me button, yeah. Let me button. You talked about- It's managed with the practitioner. Okay, you talked about side effect. That's one of the reasons some people may not want to take the drugs religiously as it is. They feel that it hampers some sort of their lifestyle as it is, you know. I've heard of people talked about libido issues and some people have talked about how it makes them sweat more, how it makes them pee more. So what are these side effects of using them, hypertensive drugs? It's different. And it's different from one drug to the other. And besides, it's also different ranging from one person to another, you know. So two people can take exactly the same drugs and they will not know, then they won't have the same side effects. But I would like to say that the side effects that these drugs cause, that is the reason why you need to visit your medical practitioner at regular intervals so that you can review the side effects and sometimes change or adjust the dosage. So for a side effect by some people who will say, oh, I normally, my urinates more when I take the medication. So we advise, instead of taking the medication at night, then take it in the morning. You know, some will say, oh, when I take the medications, I feel dizzy. So we'll say, okay, instead of taking it in the morning, then take it at night, you know. And those some people who have maybe individual problems, you can change, sometimes you may need to change the medication altogether because we're also looking at the quality of life of people whilst they have hypertension. But the bottom line is, besides irrespective of the side effect, your heart has to be beaten first for you to be alive, to be able to even feel a side effect. So we look at this and we weigh the options before taking the decision. Can we, okay. Can you buttress the point of who is at risk of, you know, having all of this, you had talked about the risk factor. So can you elaborate? On those who are at risk of becoming hypertensive over having a high blood pressure or whichever. Okay, so I'd said that most of those who are hypertensive, that being a Black person in the first instance is a risk factor. So it's high-petention racist now? Yeah, so high-petention is more common in Blacks than in Whites. So high-petention is more common in Blacks than in Whites. Any reason for that? So it's genetic and it's quite complex, but it's just genetic, just like when you say cancer is more common in Whites than in Blacks. You can put it through a lot of things. Even in Blacks, you can probably look at our diet that has high salt intake. We can look at obesity, saying that most of the time we like women around there, the kind of foods we eat. We can look at all of those factors, but basically, underneath it is genetics. All right, talking about lifestyle adjustment, you talked about, I took some jottings. You talked about too much alcohol intake. You talked about poor dieting and high cholesterol. Let's talk about this cholesterol pattern. Most people tend to not understand it, and they say they try to burn cholesterol or calories. At the end of the day, they mix both of them up. Elaborate, please. Okay, so for cholesterol, I mean, for some people, before you know that you have high cholesterol, you have to be tested. And that's why we always say, see your physician.   No, it doesn't show on the face. There are slim people who have high cholesterol. And cholesterol, because I know it's a topic that a lot of people talk about, I'll be honest, they're not able to really explain the reasons behind it. So too, who are familial high cholesterol? That means they have a lot of cholesterol in their blood, and that is how it is in their family. Even when they don't take anything fatty, they don't take anything that should predispose them to have high cholesterol. It runs in their family, and they always have that. So it's when the monitor the report results of their tests with their doctors, that is when the doctor will be able to say, okay, this is actually familial, this is genetic. So we are not bothered about it as it were. For the other group of people, what high cholesterol does, like I told you, it's just like looking at the blood vessel like a pipe. Like a pipe, that water is flowing through it. You will find out that after some time, there will be a lot of settlement on the pipe. You know, a lot of them dead, dust, and all of that along the pipe. And it can eventually block the pipe. So that is what happens with cholesterol. There are deposition of facts on the walls of the blood vessels, and these are facts deposition. And they now clog the blood vessel and does not allow blood to flow very well.  So for people who have high cholesterol, there are medications available for them to use to be able to reduce the level of cholesterol they have in their system. But more, better, is use of lifestyle adjustments, like adjustments of diet, physical engaging in physical activity, minding our weight. All of those things are very critical and important when we talk about cholesterol.  So people when they go and eat, they have to eat all the parts of the cow. They have to ask for this, they'll point at the stew, or pick that one, not that one, the other one. All of those things have cholesterol in them. So that's just a simple way to know that. Things that are fatty and they are really sweet and nice, very tasty, you know. A lot of them contain cholesterol. I'll say it's probably sounding that we should be tilting towards things that are not sweet and nice and probably bitter. No, that they should be taken in moderation. Oh, okay. They should be taken in moderation, yes. All right, so just before Justin jumps in right here, how can one actually tell that they're, I mean, how do you now tell that you're probably hypertensive? What are the signs and symptoms? Of course, you know that with malaria, COVID and what have you, you can actually say, okay, okay. So I have malaria, I have COVID or something because you can see the signs and symptoms. For hypertension, we normally refer to it as a silent killer. So most of the time, there may be nothing. You may not feel anything. But we recommend that as people get to the age of 30, they should begin to check their blood pressure. At least once a month, at minimum.  The word accurately is very important. That means the world is also moving into the era of self-care. So it's important, the device for measuring your blood pressure is a device that anybody can use, especially, I mean, if you're educated at least up to primary six level, you should be able to use it.  But there are a lot of things to be done to be sure that you measure your blood pressure accurately. And when you find it elevated, when it's above 120, 80, it's time to go to the hospital and get to see a doctor and discuss about it. That way, you can prevent the complications because most of the people get to know their hypertensive when they have the complications. And the commonest complication we see around here is stroke. So most people get to know when they have a stroke. So I think it's important we measure accurately. That seems the first step to take. All right, Doctor, are you okay? Oh, yeah, Lord, let's talk more about, you talked about complications and all of that. Let's try and correlate it to blood sugar and all of that. What do we need to know? So if you want to, generally, we said people should know their numbers. So one, you need to know your weight. It's important that everybody knows their weight. It's important you know your height. So when you know your weight and height, there is a way we can get an index called the BMI. There's a metabolic index, which can be done for you by any health worker. Besides that, they will begin to measure our blood pressure. So that means a device is used to measure the blood pressure. But I mean, as we advanced in age also, we need to know our blood sugar level, which is measured by another device, a glucometer. That can be done at most pharmacies now. It can be done at most pharmacies now and it can also be done in the health care centers. And for those who are educated, like I said, it can be done right at home. So it's something that can be learned. The device can be bought and it can be done at home. So those are the things that we need to know. And using all of that dose, seeing our doctors with all of those numbers, they'll be able to advise better what to do. All right, you talked about not really showing visible symptoms, but they have been talks about headaches, nausea, vomiting, and dizziness, and maybe blurred vision. Yes, okay. So people talk about nausea, headache, blood vision, and all of that. Those are also, they are unconstitutional symptoms. Yes, they could be for hypertension, but those are symptoms you could also have if you have a high fever. Those are symptoms you could also have if you have malaria. Those are symptoms you could have if you have any other disease. And that's why we say blood pressure is a silent killer. You may not have any of those symptoms and be hypertensive. And that's why some people just come down with a stroke without all of those symptoms. So we don't like to tell people that, oh, it's when you have a headache, then you have blood pressure. It could even be a problem of your eyesight that is causing the headache. So the not yet is that people should check their blood pressure even when they don't feel any sign or symptom. All right, just before I let you go, the final question would be at what point in time do you seek a second line treatment? So I've said that the aim is to have 12080, 12080, anything above that, you see a doctor. All right, thank you so much. We happen speaking with Dr. Yetunde Ayo, or Yalo, she is the founder, and market doctor. She is a public health practitioner. Thank you so much for the thoughts that you have shared this morning. Thank you for having me. All right, it is still the breakfast away from hypertension. We'll take a break, we'll come back. We'll give you updates on what happened in canvas data, of course. The train resumption, the Kaduna Abuja Bound, we have a guest who will tell us more about preparations and of course measures being put in place. In a moment, to join us again.