Well, good evening, everyone. Welcome tonight. Welcome to the Kellogg-Cubbard Library. My name is Michelle Singer. I'm the adult programs here at the library, and I'm happy to have you all with us. I'm happy to have you with us live streaming. Thank you to Orca Media for doing that for us and for making this program go a little further. This will be available online afterwards, too, so people can catch it. So the library has been collaborating with the League of Women Voters for seven years now on the speaker series, eight years for the time flies when you're having fun. And we're very glad to be partners in this speaker series, and I will have Susan Clark come up from the lead to introduce our panel tonight. Thanks for being here, everyone. So formal. Having introducers introduce introducers. On behalf of the League of Women Voters, thank you. Thanks for coming out tonight. And so, yeah, this is part of the League's 2024 election series and democracy speaker series. So just a heads up that the next event in the series will be on February 14th, Valentine's Day's very romantic topic of legislative redistricting, featuring Tom Little, who chaired the Vermont Legislative Apportionment Board during the 2021-2022 redistricting. So that should be interesting. And in March, the topic will be misinformation and disinformation with a panel of current and former Vermont media members. So lots of good stuff coming up. Tonight, we are thrilled to have a wonderful panel with us to fill us in on the crucial topic of civics education in schools. We're honored to welcome Vermont Secretary of State Sarah Copeland-Hanses. And since we're talking about education, I will tell you that Secretary Copeland-Hanses was educated in the Vermont Public School System, and at UVM, and that she started her career as an educator, teaching middle school science. She served in the Vermont House for 18 years, and she was elected to her current position, Secretary of State, in November 2022. So she's passionate about civics. She's made civic education and engagement a major priority for her office. So looking forward to hearing about that. We're also pleased to have Martha Dice, who is the Global Citizenship Specialist at the Vermont Agency of Education. Her job supports the teaching and learning of social studies and world language as well as financial literacy. And she has brought her 20 plus years of classroom experience from Charlotte, North Carolina to her role at the Agency of Education. And she taught AP and international baccalaureate courses on government and politics. So lots of expertise there as well. And thanks very much to Tom Macomb for moderating this discussion and taking your questions. Tom worked in Vermont schools as well for over 30 years as a teacher and principal, and served as the Executive Director right here at Kellogg Hubbard Library for five years. So wonderful panel coming up. Thanks a lot. Please welcome Thank you, Susan. This was a wonderful place to work, of course. Keep coming back. A civic education includes much more than just knowing how our government functions and what our personal rights and responsibilities are. Living in a pluralistic democracy, a democracy that aims to include everyone, we need to do, we need to be accepting and understanding of each other. And also, we need to learn how to get along and how to work out differences. As we enter another election year as a deeply divided country, our civic skills will play a major role in our success or failure. Civic education is a priority for both the Secretary of State's office and the Agency of Education. And this evening that our two speakers were tallest about what those two organizations are doing. And they each have about 10 minutes to do some introductory remarks. Then I will ask them some questions and I will invite members of the audience to ask questions also. So Sarah is going to go second. So Martha is going to start. Sure. Sure. Thank you. Hi. Thank you for coming out tonight. I was hired at the Agency of Education in December of 2016. And my first task was to have new social studies standards adopted. So I surveyed the field and what came to the forefront was standards called the College Career and Civic Life C3 framework for social studies state standards. So those were adopted by the Vermont Board of Education in 2017. And within those standards, there are four content areas that are brought to the forefront civics, economics, geography and history. So it's a K12 set of standards broken down K23568 and 912. And within all of those grade bands, there are three areas of critical proficiency that students should be focused on attaining. There's political and civic institutions, civic values and democratic principles and rules, processes and laws. So that those all schools are supposed to be according to the education standards utilizing those standards when they develop their curriculum K12. There is no statewide curriculum in the state of Vermont, which is something that I was unfamiliar with coming from another state. And I've I'm on a few other committees that don't have educators on the committee. And it was sort of a surprise for them to understand that there is no statewide curriculum. So we have I think 56 or 58 supervisor unions and districts currently. So each union or district is determining their own curriculum for K12. So it's not exactly the same across the state. So so the standards are, you know, directly influencing what the students are learning and what educators are teaching. But at the higher level, if you step back, we have to align our work with policy. And, you know, sometimes people question in my name being associated with some testimony, you know, people know how passionate I am about civics and about financial literacy and other content areas. And they see my name on testimony. And it's not that I don't support these content areas. And it's not that the agency of education does not support these content areas. It's we have to play within the guidelines and the structure that we are given. So if you look at Title 16 chapter 23, it says that students are supposed to be exposed to citizenship, US history, Vermont history, US government and Vermont government. And it doesn't say where, when or how much. So that's one that's the overarching guideline. And then if you're familiar with the education quality standards, they've been in the news a lot lately because they're under revision and they've been asking for public comment. So the education quality standards, which we might refer to it as EQS. Those are the rules that we also have to abide by when we are supporting students and teachers and administrators. And if you were to look at the education quality standards, 21 20.5, which is curriculum coordination, D is global citizenship, which is probably where my title came from under global citizenship is civics, economics, geography, history, culture and world language. So those global citizenship is supposed to be taught annually and rigorously to our K 12 students. So you have that also as policy. And then I can quote more numbers for you, but I don't want to bore you. But if you look at education quality standards, you can see that there are several other rules in there that would pertain to the teaching and learning of civics like the local graduation requirements and things like that. But finally, 10 years ago, Act 77 was passed by the legislature in 2013, which is the flexible pathways act, which allows students to attain proficiency in content areas and transferable skills to be prepared for graduation. So when you consider some of the the considerations that have been put forth to the legislature, things like required classes for graduation, it sort of butts up against students having the opportunity to attain proficiency through a flexible pathway like through a CTE center or work study programs, internships, dual enrollment early college, any of these types of things. So that is also, you know, within our constraints. So I just wanted to lay that out. I'll stop throwing out numbers and policy for you right now. Things that we have done, and I'm only speaking since I've been at the agency, I've written to civic education grants 2020 and 2021 to try and increase secondary school involvement in the We the People program, which is a program from the Center for Civic Education in DC. Last year, we had close to 500 students attending Attorney General Eric Holder's student facilitated question and answer session at the Flynn. It was a collaboration between the Flynn, VSAC, and the Agency of Education. So we wrote a grant paying for the books for the students, as well as transportation to and from and obviously for our meal because it was during the school day and they have that opportunity to eat. But we had of the 500 kids close to 500 kids there and we had three sending supervisor unions and districts participate in that grant opportunity. And then I put on the table for you a handout called Civics Empowers All Students. We are currently in our second year of this opportunity for grades four through eight. And it's study with the US Department of Education, Georgetown University and the Center for Civic Education to show the efficacy of this particular program, not only in increasing civic engagement with students, but also with social emotional learning and with literacy. And am I close to time? Can I keep going? Okay, I've added a couple of items on as a handout for you that I would love feedback on we at the Agency are working on creating sort of an equitable lens to proficiencies and proficiency based graduation requirements. And there are some sample K235 and 68 proficiency hierarchies if anyone would love to comment or share them with people that couldn't give me some feedback that would be wonderful. I also have over there for you a draft k8 scope and sequence where you can see that concepts that are that really pertain to to civic literacy starts in kindergarten when kids are learning about identity and self and empathy and community. And it spans through it's not something that I see or we see necessarily as something that you just learn in one class within high school, it really spans a continuum and you spy or spiral those those concepts through the K12 continuum. Yeah, I'm happy to answer any questions. After Sarah, I think I gave I hope I gave you enough of a background as to where sort of civic education stands within Vermont currently. Okay, thank you So our Secretary of State Sarah Copeland hands us will go second. She asked me to call us Sarah after this. Yes, please. Thank you so much. And thank you all for coming out tonight. It really is an honor to be sitting up here next to Martha talking about civics in our schools because this was really central to my campaign when I decided that I wanted to run for Secretary of State. I came to that understanding after having served in the legislature and spending 18 years talking to my constituents about what I was doing in Montpelier, the bills that we were passing, you know, upcoming elections, are you registered to vote? Well, you know, will you vote for me? Those are all the things that you do when you want to be elected. And, you know, through the through the conversations that I've had with Vermonters over the years, it became really clear to me that there are a lot of people for whom government feels inaccessible. It feels like something that those people do that that that is, you know, those important people over there. But it's not for me. I don't I don't have a say in what's happening in my government or I'm not I'm not educated enough or smart enough or wealthy enough or influential enough to be able to make a difference in my government. And that those those sorts of barriers often led people to not bother to register to vote or if they were registered to vote to not bother to go to the polls on election day. And when I look at this in the context of the big challenges that we have as a state, you know, as a state with an aging demographic as a state, you know, where our young people are are feeling adrift and feeling less hopeful than I think when I was a kid, you know, when I was a kid, I believed in this concept of the American dream where you work hard and you and you, you know, you get up every day and do the best that you can and you're going to advance in the world. And young people today don't have that same level of faith and and sense of opportunity that we all did when we grew up. And I have three kids, they are all in their mid 20s now. And so I spend a fair amount of time listening to them and listening to their peers. And they are expressing that level of disenchantment and frustration that I that I heard from certain people on the campaign trail back when I was running for state representative. And, you know, the the passion that I bring to to civics education and to helping people understand how government works and how citizens can influence their government is really in wanting to make sure that our young people have the skills that they need have the the understanding of of the how the levers of government work so that they can feel empowered to step up and move some of these issues that they're concerned about, whether it's am I ever going to be able to afford to own a house of my own? Am I ever going to be able to make a livable wage?  You know, to me, civics is a way of empowering and giving hope and to to all citizens. And and as such, I wanted to make sure that when we look at what the role of the Secretary of State's office is, that we expand that to say, we yes, we administer elections, right? Yes, we train your town clerks, we make sure that they have the equipment they need to be able to operate our democracy on that most fundamental level where you choose the people who will lead you. But we also need to train and equip and supply the citizens of this state with the ability and the understanding of how to do democracy. How do you advocate for something when you see a challenge in your community? How do you vet candidates?  And then how do you talk to them after they've become elected in order to say, this is why I voted for you, I want you to go figure out how to make sure there's more affordable housing. And so all of that is is really driving me towards towards this very large need that we have in terms of civics and civic understanding.  To me, civics means I know how to influence my government. I know how to exercise those rights that I have in the Bill of Rights. I know how to ask my government to do for me what I can't do as an individual for myself. And it's really helpful to come on the heels of Martha, because Martha is sort of helping frame up what is the, you know, what's the construct of of how we do education policy in Vermont. It would be really easy to be able to wave a magic wand and pass a law that says every kid needs to have XYZ in the civics realm, right? That would that would get the job done. But it would also violate the way we do education policy in this state. And I think if we all thought about it for a few minutes, it's it's actually not a bad thing that politicians don't set curriculum. Right, so as much as I would like to be able to, you know, for my idea, because my idea is great, you know, like wave a magic wand and everybody, everybody graduates high school with a deep civics understanding, I understand that we're working within a different construct. And so what what we have set out to do is really more in the realm of carrots. Let's make it easier for the teachers in our schools to teach kids about how the levers of government work in Vermont. And so when I came into office, the very first thing that we set about to do, and I wanted it to be done by January 15. But it took a few more months than I wanted it to was to hire our education and civic engagement position because Robin Palmer, who I am very proud to introduce to you all came in and filled that position. And she really hit the ground running in in, you know, we have a we have a broad range of things that we're doing to advance this work. And it's all pretty much in the realm of let's offer carrots and help make it possible as opposed to trying to work through a political process to set a requirement. Robin's Robin's first miraculous suggestion to me that I hadn't thought of before because I hadn't done the deep research was how about if we engage in a civic health index, right? This is this is a compilation of data points that many other states have have done before come together and really evaluate, you know, what is the civic health of our communities? I think that's going to be a very valuable place for us to look for a roadmap in the future for where we need to spend time and resources. What are the demographic niches that are less engaged? Where are the geographic places that people are less engaged? And and what can we do to help bolster that out in our communities? But we also know that there's a lot of work that we need to do within the school. So the other thing that Robin's been doing is is bringing together a teacher advisory group. And Chris remind me your last name. Sheen. Sheen. Chris is a social studies teacher at Twinfield. Yes. And he is currently spending a year of sabbatical and totally immersed in in civic and civic education and has been a really great resource within our teacher advisory group. We need more elementary school teachers, by the way. So if you know of any elementary school teachers who would like to engage in the teacher advisory group, we it's really important to me that we ask the educators to tell us how you know what works, what makes it easy to use? How can what sorts of resources can we provide to you? And so between the teacher advisory group and the Civic Health Index, we are, we are going along at full steam. We do have some resources over on the table that I would welcome you to take a look at. There's a one pager front and back that talks about all of the activities that we're doing in the civics realm that Robin is spearheading. And then of course the Freedom and Unity comic book and some wonderful branded stickers and buttons that the Center for Cartoon Studies has collaborated with us on. Your vote is your voice is now branded with the Freedom and Unity comic book color and artistry. And it's it's really amazing. So feel free to take one for for any young people in your life who you think might like a pin or a or a sticker. And I'm sure that you have other questions to prompt us on. But that's that's sort of the quick skim overview of how we got to where we are in the Secretary of State's office and a couple of the projects that we're focusing on. And this booklet, of course, is just terrific. And it's not just for kids. It's true. And this is this is great for all ages. It has a real good perspective on Vermont from the, you know, from before Vermont was the state going way back. But and it deals with some real issues. It notes that Vermont has some violent history relating to eugenics and racism. So things like that. One of the I've read quote from this. And I'll ask each to respond. So Freedom and Unity isn't about making something perfect. It's about working through these tensions to create something that fits our time and place. So what is it that fits our time and place? As opposed to other time periods, in terms of civics? Mark, we're both going to get you. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know. I was just thinking. Well, I just talked. So I think about specific things that sort of resonate in a cyclical fashion. Media literacy or propaganda. If you think using a historical lens, how how it's played a huge role in the past in multiple ways and how that comes back to to current times. I think I need to hear the quote again. Just make sure I'm not an auditory processor. And if I were able to read it, I think I'd probably do better. Freedom and Unity isn't about making something perfect. It's about working through these tensions to create something that fits our time and place. So what are the civics challenges of our time and place? Well, communication, which goes back to the idea of propaganda and media literacy, digital information, things like that, having from a student standpoint, having agency and understanding and empathy to know that you have a voice, but other people also have that same voice and the right to be heard and accepted. More than simply tolerated. Sure. All right. So fitting the time and place. There's so many different directions to go in that. And I think I sort of touched on that concept as I was talking about how young people and and the very different landscape that they're growing up and and becoming adults in right now is is sort of a compelling reason why we need to take a different tact and and work a little harder at some things. And I guess I will come back to, you know, working people in in this country, in this state right now are so very busy. They're so very busy because they're working long hours. Maybe they live in a rural community and they have a long drive to be able to get to where they're where their their job is. You know, shuffling young kids when you're when you're parenting. It gives you lots of challenges. And I think that the place that we're at right now needs to be focused on the accessibility of participating in our democratic process. It's part of the reason why, you know, coming in on the heels of Jim Kondo's, who advocated for same day voter registration for automatic voter registration so that that's not a reason why somebody can't show up to vote in November advocated for universal vote by mail. He came over to I was the chair of the government operations committee at the time that COVID hit. And boy, that was a wild ride. But he came over on, I think it was March 11th and said, we've got this bad time coming. We need to be prepared right now. I think we should plan for a universal vote by mail. Because that's what's going to keep our poll workers safe. That's what's going to keep for mantra safe. That's what's going to make sure that people can still come out and vote and they don't have to choose between their health and their right to vote. So those sort of pro voter reforms. I've been proud to support as a legislator. And now I think the next level of accessibility or the next definition of accessibility now needs to be to build on that. And how is voting accessible unless people understand how to how to vote? And which is part of the reason why the the summer and fall project that Robin is going to be spearheading in our office is to create a voter guide so that when you get your November ballot in the mail, you'll also get your voter guide. And you can look through and see all of the candidates and issues that are on your ballot and use that time that 45 days that you'll have your ballot on your kitchen table. Use that time to figure out who you want to vote for. Now I was chair as I said during COVID when we passed the emergency universal vote by mail. And it was a high watermark record turnout. Vermonters voted in higher numbers than certainly ever in my lifetime. And so we came back in 2021 and we said, well, that was a good thing. Let's do it again. Right? Let's make this permanent. And some of the pushback that I heard when when we were considering making universal vote by mail permanent was, well, I don't think it ought to be that easy. I think people ought to have to work a little bit to vote. And you know, that's just stunning to me because, you know, you can, you have an app on your phone that'll tell you where you need to go to charge your car. You can order up a pizza to be delivered, you know, most any time of day. You don't have to get out of your car even to have a latte in the morning in many places because you can just go to the drive through. Why would we make voting hard when everything else that we do is is making things easier for people? And so the voter guide, you know, getting out and engaging with folks in the community about how to access their democracy is, I think, the meeting, the challenge of the here and now that that I think really I was inspired by when I heard your quote. Yes. So getting the vote out is in helping people to understand how they can vote and how they can participate. It's a great first step and it seems like that would be a lead in to getting people to become more informed as voters because one of the issues we have right now is we have large numbers of people who are really not well informed. And also there's a huge issue of misinformation and disinformation and people willing to accept that. And especially with fewer newspapers and more social media and the Internet. So people are not dealing with things under, you know, reliable information. Sometimes in the materials that you brought, Martha, there's so much good information about things that teachers, social studies teachers and other teachers can help students with to better understand other cultures and to in terms of critical thinking and to be able to analyze ideas and what is accurate, what is not accurate. And it's, I first worked in Vermont schools like 40 years ago. Some of those things we were doing 40 years ago. And, and I know probably not every school did them. And it's been inconsistent, but it is concerning that what happens, that some of the things that students learning school don't transfer. And when they were adults, they, they don't stick with them. So how do, what can we do to strengthen the transfer of knowledge and skills and attitudes from school into adult life? Ideas, either of you? Sure. I processed a while to process. I'll bail you out on this one. You know, I have heard some really wonderful stories about teachers making, creating lesson plans from the Freedom and Unity comic book. The subtitle of that book is, you know, a guide to civics and democracy in Vermont, right? So if teachers are using that as a resource, it's a really, it's a memorable piece. And it's a textbook, textbook that kids can can keep forever, right? This is, this is not something that they have to turn in at the end of the year. In fact, they will see it again because we are sharing it at libraries and we're taking it to events and we're passing out the comic book here. And my hope is that it becomes a real discussion point among families where when the teacher is, is, is talking about, you know, a lesson in civics or democracy from that book, that the kid is able to take that book home and share it with the family and have conversations around it. I think another, another way that we can make lessons more memorable is I could imagine teachers beginning to take the voter guide that we are creating. And that will be available online, you know, accessible to any school teacher in the state and, and actually using that time period in the run up to November election to help kids understand, you know, how do you read that voter guide? What is the role of the lieutenant governor? You know, what does the state auditor do? You know, so it'll be an opportunity to, to, to dissect not only who's, who are the people running for those offices, but what does that office do and what, what position in state government does that fulfill so that people can better understand how they want to vet those candidates? How do you know who's going to be a good state auditor if you don't know what the auditor does, right? And so, you know, I think that some of the material that we're creating and then, and hopefully down the road, the, the lesson plans and, and ideas, classroom ideas that, that will create out of our teacher advisory group will, will really help amplify this. So that, you know, oftentimes when you want something to filter up to adults, you teach the kids about it. That's how we began composting in my house, you know, 20 years ago was the kids were doing units on it in school and they said this is the right thing to do. And so, yeah, teach the kids and, and it will go home to them and they'll talk to their parents about it. Good point. Marla? I think within any of our content areas, what really allows that sticking idea of taking learning and making it authentic and bringing it into the real world is student agency, allowing them to, to take the content and take the skills and find ways that they can incorporate it within community projects, civic engagement, if we're speaking specifically about social studies. And it, it just continues. You can learn a lot from a textbook or a lesson or a lecture. But when you take that knowledge and you do something with it, when you apply it to something, it really, I use the word stick, but it sticks and it grows and it, and it can sort of morph into other areas, not only of your life, you know, content areas within the school. That's why we talk about interdisciplinary work all the time. You know, reading shouldn't just be in an English language arts class. It should be in the social studies and it should be in the science. And you get that cross disciplinary and interdisciplinary lens. And the more you do it, the more the kids do it, the more that they get better at it, they feel a sense of ownership of what they're doing. And that's what sort of allows the growth out of the classroom and into the community. Good. Thank you. So in a minute, I'm going to ask if any people in the audience would like to ask a question. I have one more. I'm going to ask, I have plenty more, but another one then I'll ask if the audience would like to ask any. So I'm wondering about teacher comfort level in dealing with some of these issues because these are really hard issues to deal with. Issues with racism, sexism and LGBTQ plus issues are trans issues. There's a lot in the news, a lot of things are happening. And they're difficult issues to talk about. Social studies teachers may be the best able to talk about these things because that's what they've been trained to do. And a lot of other teachers, because this work includes elementary school teachers also, and they may not have the same training. So how comfortable are teachers dealing with these issues and also what resources are there available for them? Right. So Martha and I met before tonight so that we could talk a little bit about what each of us is going to talk about. And she said something that gave me sort of an aha moment of, you know, our elementary school teachers, you know, they they are giving kids the broad foundation, right? They may not be a scientist themselves, but they're giving a broad foundation in science. They may not be historians or constitutional scholars, but they need to be giving kids that broad, you know, sort of baseline of understanding. And so I think part of what we will need to do going forward is really make make this information accessible directly to teachers when they're when they're having their professional development day. We should be we should be getting in there and helping them understand how do you take the freedom in unity comic book as a as a sixth grade teacher and teach some good lessons out of that. I, you know, it is it is amazing to me how much teaching has changed since I was in the classroom just 25 years ago. And the intensity of what is going on in Vermont schools right now is is really, you know, with the pandemic and housing crisis and and, you know, families and turmoil is is really, really real. But people go into teaching because they want to empower their children. They want to empower children to be able to unlock the mystery of letters and numbers, right? They want to empower children to be able to be successful adults in our community. And I have a lot of faith that that teachers will also want to empower kids to understand where the levers of power are in our democracy. And so I think that going forward, we will be spending time, you know, with teachers trying to help them understand the the materials and and the lessons that that we're compiling so that they can empower their kids to be active participants in a democracy. So there are multiple parts to that question, this question that I want to make sure that I touch on. In terms of resources for things like equity conversations, diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, I actually shared on the table the resources that I have compiled for that. I do a lot of the equity work for our division. I did a lot of I have a lot of experience from prior teaching in North Carolina. I never claimed to be an expert at all. I field a lot of the questions. I actually had someone come up to me, an educator at the Social Studies Conference in December and say, thank you so much for sharing a particular resource facing history and ourselves because he had some difficult conversations going on within his classroom when it was really helpful. So we at the agency serve as a resource for a lot of those conversations. All of the content areas have put out what we are calling spotlights on equity done differently within each content area, depending on the lens of the particular specialist, but we have those. In regards to elementary school teachers, I'll give you a quick little snippet of something that I thought was super cool. Civics Empowers All Students is, I spoke about it a minute ago. So we had our first training, year one, last summer in Boston. And initially, there were three Vermont teachers that signed up to participate in this learning experience. And unfortunately, only one of them was able to attend because of other engagements and other reasons. So Jen Tift from a Tinnmouth Academy, Tinnmouth School, I want to give her a shout out. She is our Vermont, she will be our Vermont mentor for Civics. And initially, when I asked her after this week-long training, I think she did fourth or fifth grade if she would like to mentor because it's a three-year program that we've signed up with with DOE and Georgetown. And she looked at me and she said, I really need to think about it. And so a couple months later, I tapped on her after school got in session.  And she said, you know what? She said, I really want to do it. And this is why. She said, I was completely overwhelmed with that week of civic training as an elementary school teacher. I had very little background in enlightenment and hops and all the things that we're talking about. But the social-emotional learning aspect, the literacy aspect, and the communication and collaboration that this civics lens will bring to my classroom, it's been amazing. So it's really an authentic lens. It's a better mentor than I could ever be to elementary school teachers in the state of Vermont because she is in the classroom currently. So it's not Vermont specific that elementary schools are not spending a lot of time on social studies. It's a national issue. It's sadly. And there are other things that are being put in the forefront in terms of importance, not only in Vermont but nationally. But I think if we have the opportunity to educate people within the field of education and community members that social studies is a really, really strong foundation for literacy because it creates not only vocabulary and knowledge but connections with culture and community and that interdisciplinary lens. It really is a strong lever for literacy education. And again, I urge you all to pick up that data that came out during COVID that states that increased time in the social studies is the only content area where literacy scores have actually shown an increase, not adding additional ELA time but adding social studies. And it really makes a difference with EL students when they're looking at things that they can actually relate to in regards to culture and geography and things like that. So I think I hit all of them. Good. All right. Thank you. And another thing, one of things about elementary school teachers, I mean, we see this progression as we get older and that young children are the most accepting and inclusive people in our society by far. And the older we get, not every one of us individually but as groups of people, the older we get, it seems that the less accepting we are. But elementary school teachers and parents do a great job with helping those children and providing such a wonderful positive environment. Is there anyone in the audience who'd like to ask a question at this point? No, I'll keep going. OK. So on the issue of how do we deal with the internet and social media? Because they have an enormous effect on elections and on so many things in our society. Yeah. You know, I'd like to also add to that question artificial intelligence because I think that's on the forefront of everything that we're going to be doing. I think it will have a tremendous impact on the upcoming elections and how we all see and deal with the information that's being thrown out there. So I think that it seems maybe it's the umbrella over what of all those that you're talking about. Another thing, too? I was just going to add that our March program will have discussion of misinformation and misinformation and artificial intelligence and its potential impact on the election. OK. Do you have enough there for that question? Oh, I think I have enough to close out the night. How late are we staying? There's a lot there. I'll jump in first with the social media question because, you know, that's part of that's part of the accessibility of information that I was talking about before. People are busy. People are stretched thin and pulled in a number of different directions, making the right information accessible to people through social media is a major focus of our office. You know, we want to make sure that if scrolling through social media is where people are encountering mis and disinformation, that we are also recognizing it there and that we can then affirmatively reach out to maybe the person who hosted something or shared something that wasn't true. Maybe we can reach out to the social media platform itself. I know that many secretaries have done that to reach out to a social media platform and say, hey, this is disinformation. Please, you know, we think you should take it down. You know, we have to meet people where they are getting their media right now and be in those spaces so that we can identify the incorrect information and so that we can be a trusted source to people with the truth. I think when we start to contemplate AI, it takes it takes misinformation and disinformation to a whole new level because AI technology has gotten to the point where folks who are watching this at home might not even recognize the blip in the screen that goes from me and my actual voice saying these words to an AI-generated image of me using my voice and making it sound as if the Secretary of State of Vermont is telling you that Vermont is going to vote on Wednesday, not on Tuesday. And that would be miss and disinformation. And that's the kind of outright disinformation intentionally intended to disenfranchise voters that we do see in some parts of the country. Thankfully, we haven't yet seen concerted efforts like that in Vermont. But we do need to be very aware of it. It is something that I think that next year we will ask the legislature to start taking a look at. I think it's worthwhile requiring disclosure if AI is used to generate campaign material in our state. And that could be a very big conversation because, of course, campaign advertisements come in from many places around the country and through many media channels. But disclosure that isn't the actual Sarah Copeland Hansen saying that at least is one indicator to a citizen that, hey, let's make sure that what I'm hearing sounds correct. So one thing that's really important within the social studies is that we talk about the idea of multiple perspectives being always allowed within the classroom and students should be seeking out multiple perspectives on resources that they are using. But they should be able to have that ability. It's actually part of the C3 standards being able to discern the validity of the sources that they're using. The agency, as far as I am aware, and we've been working within Interim Secretary since, I think, April, I think. I don't believe that we've put out a statement on AI. So I don't know that I want to speak to that. But I do know that AI is there's two sides to it. My son works for an ed tech company and they utilize AI with the lessons that they create for students in this hybrid learning program. Some teachers think it's great because it allows them to, it takes a lot of lesson planning time away from them as educators because they can simply put a question in and ask what's the best way to teach about the climate in Africa. And they'll get ABCDE. So some educators like it. But you still have to do the same thing is you have to figure out where you're getting, you know, like what, how valid are the options that AI is giving me in terms of what should I be using within the classroom? In regards to social media and students, you know, phones are an issue. Phones were an issue when I left the classroom six years ago. Phones were an issue then. Since then, a lot of teachers have incorporated using phones in the classroom for things like Kahoot, which are like quizzes and the kids can use their phone and answer and things like that. I'm not, I'm old. And technology is not my strength, but I'm, I'm learning. But I just think the biggest piece is, you know, we've, I've written articles if you Google agency of education, digital, digital literacy, because that's the easiest way to find things on our site sometimes if you just Google it. But it's part of, it's part of social studies education. I mean, teachers need to be able to show their kids beginning at young ages the difference between fact and opinion, the importance of having multiple viewpoints and discerning whether or not something is a viable source to be using. Thank you. Any other questions? I'll ask a question and then you can add on to it. Yeah, I do. What is your process going to be in exposing other elementary school teachers to the mentor that you've trained? I am getting coaching from the New England and New York Coalition on how, how they are reaching out to other educators. So Jen has offered to, this is the teacher, to write blogs on how she's utilizing this program and how, sort of, I don't want to say the results that she's seen, but how students are incorporating social-emotional learning and civic education growth. I guess how they're, how she's seeing growth within their classroom. So she's going to blog for me. I have actually asked if the secretary would be willing to help us do some recruiting for this, because I can bring not only grade four through eight teachers into the program this year, but I can also bring pre-service educators in, which would be juniors and seniors in college who are wanting to become elementary school educators. And not only will they get the training, get the follow-up the next year, but their first year in the classroom, the Center for Civic Education will provide them with six years, or excuse me, six hours more of support in their first year in the classroom, which is pretty amazing. So if anybody here knows any elementary school teachers that would like, or up to grade eight, I did actually, I shared this opportunity at the Alliance, Vermont Alliance with Social Studies meeting in December. And I had several people ask for more information and when the application will be out. And it's honestly, it's really a first come, first serve, as long as the administrator is willing to support this program within the school. And the teachers get, not only a stipend, but they get the resources to be able to utilize the program in their classroom. What she's trying to do is she's trying to share the program within the school. So she's not the only educator doing it, which I think is a really unique way. I also have a control teacher down at Leland and Gray. She's serving as a control and her students are serving as a control for this study. And she would like to be a participant in the program next year.  It's a new sort of role for this particular participant. So I'm happy and open to other opportunities of how she can mentor other elementary school teachers. But she's really an authentic voice in showing results with civic learning. I just worry about teachers who are maybe not close to Montelier and Chattanoogh County. The ones in the southeast and the Northeast Kingdom, those parts of our state, teachers down there, I think, often get left out because of geographical distance from initiatives that are, you know, closer in. And Brad, even down to Brattleboro for some things. And I'm just, you know, how is it that you, how can you reach those corners of the state so that despite, regardless of where you are as a child and go to school, that you have this much opportunity to have that exposure as kids who are around the more populated areas of our state. Yeah, we have a great, like the Vass Board, the Vermont Alliance for Social Studies has a really diverse group of members on the board, members from the Kingdom all the way down to Rutland and Central Vermont. And that's been a real focus, making sure that, I want to say that's an agency focus as well, making sure that we're reaching all areas within the state. This portrait of a graduate, I think, I know you had it, I don't know if you meant, work is being done currently. The agency has partnered with Great Schools Partnership and we broke up teams of agency people when in three separate stages, I was up in the Kingdom. There were people in the Burlington area and then we sent people down into the Rutland area to make sure that we are having our message being shared across the state. I get it, my husband's a principal in Northeast Kingdom. I wish he would just listen to me a little bit more, but I'll make sure he's watching. But yeah, no, I get it. And Jen is from Tinmuth, so we're getting, and I had some educators from Waits River reach out to me and someone from Walden reach out to want to participate and say, our kids need this. They're identifying, which I think is super important is the teachers are identifying that there is a need. And last thing, one more thing, sorry.  So educators have to hear from us directly on a distribution list. So if it's someone that's new, they might not get the message from me, but we try and share things with curriculum directors, which is why I asked the secretary if she would speak with the Vermont Curriculum Association as well as the Vermont Principles Association and let them know. Cause sometimes, people don't want to hear from the agency of education. They want to hear from somebody else. And I think it brings, as I said to the secretary, it brings a lot of validity to what we are trying to do when others hear it from somebody such as Secretary of State.  Okay. The teachers you're talking about went to college at the Education School of the University. The teachers, the faculty at the Education School of the University are those people that you're trying to influence so that what comes out of the university is better. We've had these conversations within our team for probably since I've been at the agency for six and a half years. I have reached out to, I think I believe his title as the assistant director on a different division and he works more closely with Andrew Pratt and works more closely with higher ed and teacher licensing. And I've shared the opportunity with him to let him know what it is that we're trying to do in regard to civic education within the state. I don't, I personally do not work directly with higher education. I have been on some accreditation visits. With a particular university and had the opportunity to look at their social studies education department as well as bring that person in to look at and amend any sort of social studies state standards. So there is, there is communication but it is not with me directly. Thank you, Martha. One of the, Susan. Oh, thank you. You go next. Okay. I was wondering about the question of local governments in Vermont and sort of how we can partner our schools with local governments. I feel like, you know, local governments are, when it comes to democracy, they're our superpower in terms of, you know, every town has select boards. It has loaded with election officials. It's got a town clerk. It's got a town vault. All these wonderful gifts that students can access. Town meetings, obviously. And I'm thinking of like Woodbury where the town moderator, town moderator actually ran a town meeting for the kids in the school where they got discovered by the public. Or Peacham where the kids in the school named the snow plows through a democratic promise and then wrote it up. I was just wondering if there are ways to maybe make more partnerships and incentivize that kind of, I mean, it's super hands-on and vibrant and so immediate community education. I think that's an excellent question because it's almost the same question I had. So, maybe it's a good question. So, are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Okay, good. I just take a little while to process. Christian, who the secretary introduced earlier, and I are both on the Vermont's 250th Teacher Education Outreach Committee. And this is one of the conversations that we have been having is how we can incorporate the local local government voice in the work that we are doing and the 250th work is not intended to end, you know, after 2026. It's work that we are hoping that we can continue on and find ways that we can utilize local governments. I will also say that Meg Mallory who is also on our 250th committee, she is, I'm going to probably botch her title. She's, I think, the education director. Is that right? Director, do you know? At the Vermont History Museum. She took over for Victoria Hughes, who some of you may remember, had been there for about 15 years. And Meg has been instrumental in updating the Vermont History Museum webpage with the Vermont Explorer work that they have. And she's also been working on ways to incorporate local voice, local government voice in the work that she's doing. And then it will also tie into the work that we are doing on the 250th, which ties into also civic education. Because I've also asked the secretary if she and Robin would be interested in helping with the 250th. So I think that's a great question because, you know, and I was thinking of this when we were talking about, you know, how do you make it relevant? How do you make it real? So we're coming at this in a couple of different ways. One is that there's a subcommittee of the teacher advisory group that is working on doing sort of a how to guide to, for your classroom teacher, on how to visit your town clerk's office or how to have an elected leader come into your classroom. Just some sort of basics. You know, it can be overwhelming and intimidating for a teacher who's never actually sat down with an elected official or doesn't understand him or herself what the role of a town clerk is to dive into that. But these are these are easy, ready made lessons that exist, as you say, in every one of our communities, right? There I would hazard a guess that there are many, many elementary schools in Vermont where they could take a walking class trip to the town clerk's office. And so we've got our teacher advisory group who are working on the teacher side of that classroom visit in a box. I also have a group of town clerks that I've brought together in an advisory capacity because it's really important to me our office touches on the work of town clerks in so many different ways, not only through elections but through archives. And I just wanted to make sure that we that I had a group of clerks who could tell me whether what we're doing is good or bad or, you know, and sometimes they say both. And, you know, that's OK. But we're we're going to lean on the talent of this town clerk advisory group to to do the the the half of that project that is how do you host a group of kindergartners or third graders or fifth graders. And they've come up with a wealth of ideas. It's really amazing. You know, town clerks do so many things in our communities that most people don't know. You know, we've got we've got marriage licenses and birth records and death records and, you know, historical property records. And so there are so many different activities that clerks have done with school groups across our state. And I think if we can compile those into resources that we can provide to the teachers, that's going to be that carrot that was. And the teacher will say, you know, this is amazing. We can, you know, look at all of the standards that we can check off here in this one lesson. So it's it's been fun, you know, sort of conceiving of ways that we can bring people together. And it's a perfect way to get young people, you know, interested in, aware of. And then when they see that person in the grocery store, that's the that's the massive win the connection. And so many of the clerks tell great stories about, you know, what kids say to them after they after they've been in for a community or a classroom visit. And so, yeah, I think that there's a lot of magic there. The one other thing that I wanted to throw out because it's it has occurred to me a couple of times this evening, I'm going to be really curious to see how Brattleboro's experiment with inviting 16 and 17 year olds to vote in local elections changes young people's engagement. And, you know, I look forward to seeing 20 years from now, you know, can we look back and say, do all of these young people who voted for the first time when they were still in the high school classroom where their high school social studies teacher was able to develop real lessons around how do you understand what your local budget is?  For your select board or for for other town offices? I'll be really curious to see how that experiment works because I happen to think it is is one of the neatest ways to give people real life experience with democracy is to do it when they're still in school and when they're still in a setting where, you know, dedicated classroom time can be spent on learning how you understand the process of town meeting. And that goes right back to like one of your earliest questions about how you're taking your learning and making it go out into the community. Can I just piggyback on something that she said previously? So all the lessons that are being created by, you know, Robin and her group of educators, there's a draft scope and sequence over there. So I've been working diligently and too long on what we're calling a C3 teaching and learning framework because there is no curriculum in this statewide curriculum.  This framework is a sample. It is a sample. We're not telling local school boards that this is a mandatory anything. But it brings a lens of equity to C8 education across the state. And my connection to it is I'm tying resources from various places across the state. I have been working with the Shelburne Museum, with the Vermont History Museum, and asking for, you know, lessons that they are creating or lessons that you guys are creating. How can I plug them in as resources to this document so that educators can see wow, here are the standards or the proficiencies that I need to show, you know, that I'm assessing. And look, I can take the kids to the Shelburne Museum and do that. Or this place-based work that the Vermont History Museum is doing is the kids are literally going to put places on a map, you know. And it just makes it easier for the teacher. We have to realize, you know, what's best for kids and what's easy as for educators to get the learning out there because it's been a lot. It's been a lot. We have a lot of provisional licenses. We have a lot of long-term substitutes.  They can't fill it. So it's just, it'll be a resource. I hope it provides equity for social studies learning across the state. But they just want to be clear that it's not anything that is mandated. But it's just a way for teachers to be able to, without having to do the searching and looking for ways on their own to do that. Karen. Thank you. So we have about five minutes left. I have one and a half questions left. Anybody have a short room they want to fit in? No, I don't want to. OK, Gary. So you're talking about this initiative from Kaye Weiss and I, K-12? I'm hoping to look at 9-12 after this. I know you're only one person. I am. And I oversee three content areas. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's, let's see. It just seemed, in my initial serving of the state, it seemed like there was a real void of social studies education in the younger grades. And it is not my, I am a 6-12. I mean, I'm licensed in three separate states. I am not an elementary school teacher. So it makes it even more challenging because I have to rely on the field and people that have taught elementary school for help. But, you know, I've done a lot of research on many other states to help build this document with a Vermont lens.  And she said fourth grade. So, you know, it's built. You know, fourth grade, Vermont history starts. Eighth grade, it puts it in action. You know, I've been really cognizant of being, I don't know, say an outsider. I'm not of a monitor. And I realize that there are things in place here that work well. And it's just trying to start there and then Tackle 912. And there are people that love it. I will tell you, the draft has been out there. It's not online, but it's been shared with coaches who are, like, get it out. It's been shared with some educators that love it. And some are like, what do you mean? I've got to teach this in sixth grade. I've been teaching, like, I've been teaching something else in sixth grade. You know, why? And I said it's a sample.  But hopefully, it will bring a lens of equity to social studies. My last question, and in a moment, will be giving you each the opportunity for any closing remarks, things you want to add or whatever. But before that, real quick question, this is a half question. Could you share some, either some personal or professional experience you've had that gives you faith that we're heading in the right direction with the workforce? Yeah. So I can share a personal experience that I found very powerful that makes me have a lot of hope for the future. And it's also part of the reason why I want a lot of our work on civics and civic education to focus on young people. You know, I served in the legislature for 18 years. I was trained as a science teacher, and as such, climate change has been a big worry for me for many, many years. And there was a point in time in the state house in Vermont where leaders of the House or Senate might ask you to leave their office if you came in and said, I want to advance this bill on climate change because it was just such a toxic issue and fraught with problems, complicated, and lots of disinformation about whether climate change was real and what we needed to do about it. But we took our eyes and ears out into the communities and we had a listening tour in 20 different communities all around the state in meeting rooms like this. And we were at Twin Field High School, was one of my favorite ones because there was a group of kids, teenagers, high school kids, sort of standing in the back of the cafeteria as we were doing our presentation. And as soon as we were done with our presentation, one of the kids raised her hand. And she said, I love these ideas of what you want to do on climate change, but you're not acting bold enough. I have to live on this planet for another 80 years and you're not acting fast enough. And I was like, how will you sister come with me? We've got work to do, OK? But these kids came together across the state and they got organized and they created a youth climate lobby. And they reserved the state house on an afternoon in November and they brought together a youth climate Congress and had a declaration created and printed and they came back during the legislative session and they delivered it to legislators. And you know what? We passed the Global Warming Solutions Act because those kids came to the state house having done their homework, having done all of that work and sat in those committee rooms talking with people in our demographic, right? But talking boldly about how you're not acting fast enough. And that gives me great hope for the future and I want to activate more kids to do things like that because, frankly, this is their country. This is their state. This is their planet and we need them to lead. That's a great example. Thanks for showing that. And just one of my take away from tonight is also your example earlier or reminder with your kids coming home because they're recycling at school, getting you to recycle at home. That really does work. There are a lot of things we can do in schools where we have students bring part of that home, a home connection and can have a real positive effect. So Martha, do you have an example you want to share? And it can be short. I'll give you a short one. And I think it's public not. So my husband's a principal at Hardwick Elementary School and they just had the PCB, it's PCBs, yeah, that have been, you know, the school. We're the only state in the nation that tests schools for PCBs. And their numbers came in elevated in like three classrooms. This was the day we got back from the holiday break. He got the information at three o'clock in the afternoon. This on Saturday, Saturday, you know, when people could have been out doing whatever they wanted to do, he had over 20 members of the community helping just to go in. They spent all day there. There was one teacher that was there. He's like texting. He's like, I'm almost coming home. There's one teacher left and none of us want to come in on Sunday. But just the rallying of a community to and nobody was like upset. Nobody was mad. He had one student the first day back in a different classroom that was a little bit shaken up. But just that sense of community was what is they to explain what they came in on Saturday? Oh, I'm sorry. And they moved to classrooms. They had to move all of the classrooms. The community should. Oh, no. I'm sorry. My brain sometimes works. Or my mouth works before my brain. But I just it's like, wow.  But I just, you know, I'm here now. And I wanted to just say, like, wow, you know, that's awesome. That's a great example. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Very quickly, would either of you like to make any closing remarks? Any things that you wanted to add for a little bit? I would love it if people can share, if you don't want to take any of the resources from yourself for yourselves. If there are others in the community that might be interested in seeing any of those resources. And I'm happy to continue any conversations. If you want to email me online, I have hope for the future. I have hope for growing social studies within the state of Vermont. I feel positive vibes. I think I've been able to put together hopefully a group of people that understand its importance as I had 20 years in the classroom teaching it. And I think we're going to be doing good things together. Thank you, Martha. Sarah? Wonderful. So thank you for coming out tonight. Thank you for engaging in this. It's a really important topic. I think most people couldn't tell you what a civics education is, but they are recognizing the absence of it in the way that this and this information is spreading and rampant. And so I think it's really important that we continue to have these conversations around the state. I am so thankful to Robin Palmer, who is just doing an amazing job of bringing together a vast portfolio of things that we could be doing and helping us to win and focus on where do we start and what's the next step and how do we continue to advance and help people understand how to pull the levers of power in their democracy. So thank you for being here and engaging on this. I'll expand on the thank yous. And thank you, Sarah Copeland-Hanses, the Vermont Secretary of the State, and Martha Dice, the Agency of Education, Global Citizen Specialists, Susan Clark and League of Women Voters, the Kellogg-Harvard Library, Finn and Orca Media, and our audience in person and also online. Audience is very important. Without you, well, I guess we would have met at a coffee shop. This is much better than that. Thank you all very much and have a good night. Thank you for such a good job.