Hello Traders, I'm Andrew Henderson. This is the Nomad Capital Support from Bangkok, Thailand. NomadCapitalist.com, the website. And oh boy, there are a lot to talk about today. The US government has shut down, well, part of it at least. And we're gonna get to that. It is a crazy time with all the mud slinging in Washington. And it's, let me tell you, it has never been a more enjoyable time to be watching from afar. I travel all around. I have not spent much time in the US lately, really anytime. But it has never hit me as much as it has right now. Just how entertaining it must have been for the rest of the 95% of the world all those years to watch the US on its gradual and now not so gradual descent into irrelevance. And let me tell you, I'm here about 8,000 miles away. And I don't have to deal with the shutdown. I don't have to worry about not getting my tax refund check or having to call the government agency. Of course, as you know, I have no desire to call my congressman. No desire to do any of that. So here I am. This is the benefit. I'm watching with glee. But I must say that if it weren't so entertaining, I would not be paying attention at all. People often call me or email me, friends of mine who live in the USSA and they ask me, what's your thought about this? And to be honest, as much as I have to be somewhat knowledgeable about these things for nomadcapitalist.com for this show, etc., I pay attention a lot less than I used to. I've told you that I was the kid reading Jim Rogers' book and Harry Dent's book. Harry Dent will be on this show next week, by the way. But I was that kid. And on top of that, I was the guy who, you know, the year I was in college and ever since, watched the Sunday morning political talk shows in the US. I did all of that. And even though I was a Libertarian and have continued to drift further and further away from believing that we need any government, I watched these things and I was very informed. Now that I'm outside of the Western world, outside of the bankrupt United States, I don't do that anymore. And let me tell you how freeing it is. The world does not, the sun does not rise and set in the United States, you know. And let me tell you, I used to watch these shows. I would watch, again, I was 15 years old and Fox News, it just started coming on the air and it was much more opinionated than what was on MSNBC, which at the time was just a borefest. It was just straight news with Brian Williams delivering newscasts at 9 o'clock every night. And I was watching Handling Combs and Bill O'Reilly and all those guys and getting all riled up as a young Libertarian. And let me tell you, I don't do that anymore. I don't get riled up. And Barack Obama got reelected good. Yeah. Let it all crumble. It would have crumbled anyway. Might as well hasten the decline. Not a fan of any of the statists. And this is what we talk about on this show, just how important it is to say, you know what, get out of the United States or wherever you live. If it's Canada, if it's the UK, if it's Australia, whatever it is, distancing yourself from that and realizing that borders are not what contains you. They're not what makes you what you are. That you can write your own ticket somewhere else. I think that's very powerful. I'm not going to be watching political shows now and crying in my beer over the fact that the US government is a hot mess. I'm just not. First of all, I don't drink beer. But you know, listen, no one outside of the United States really cares very much. Yes, there will be some impact on global financial markets, but ultimately, just like anything else in life, places and people with solid fundamentals about them, places and people that have real backing will not be affected forever at least.  And if you live in the United States, you have to care. But if you don't live in the United States, then you don't have to care. And let me tell you, it's interesting watching this fight from a long way away. Just as it was interesting watching the presidential election on my iPad, I woke up at the crack of dawn last November. When I was in Turkey, and watching all the balloons flying out from my hotel room in Cappadocia, and watching Barack Obama being declared the winner, no big surprise there, and saying, yeah, look, the US has has decided which direction it wants to go. And who am I to stop them? Who am I to get in their way? They had enough about American revival for these people who want to revive America. I say enough, the Americans have voted. They don't want to be revived. So I wanted to get into the government shutdown. Coming up on this program at just a mere moment, Stephane Cansella is an attorney and liberty activist. We're going to talk to him. He's got some interesting thoughts on perpetual travel and how you can escape the United States if you have a family. He's a family man in Texas. We'll talk about that. But let me tell you something.  Some shut down. And who is it impacting? Well, it's impacting people like a friend of mine who called me the other day from Chicago. He was trying to renew his radio station license with the Federal Communications Commission, whose website is shut down due to this government shutdown. So the things that the government has shut down are the parks, the websites, all the things that one could argue maybe kind of sort of help the citizenry. How much is it cost to run that FCC website anyway? With today's modern technology, my God, I was talking to our developer the other day who said that little in nickels and dimes per gigabyte and really much less than that to run a website. It costs basically nothing to run a website. That's why everyone's doing it these days. And so the fact that the FCC is shutting down websites, does that mean that it's because it's a government shutdown? Or that means they want you to feel a pain? I think we know the answer to that. Jeffrey Tucker was on this show months ago during the sequester, talking about how the government shuts down the Washington Monument. Let's just be honest. This is how the government works. They want you to feel the pain. They want you to cry, uncle, so you can give them more of your money. So you can, well, they want you to allow them basically a gunpoint to take more of your money and they'll do with it as they please. And it leads me to a very important point that I wanted to make. You know, we are now about three and a half months away from an event that I am hosting in Las Vegas. It's in Las Vegas by popular demand. The event called Passport to Freedom. And Peter Schiff will be keynoting the event. We've got many of the people you've heard on this show who will be speaking there, Joel Nagel. There's lots of guide. It's all about personal sovereignty, economic sovereignty, how to build your own escape hatches around the world. And the theme of the event is fight or flight. Do you want to stay in the United States and fight? Do you want to stay there with your family? Do you want to be the guy who keeps the mortgage, keeps the minivan in the garage, keeps the private school tuition, keeps all that stuff and stays in the land of the free or wherever you may be from? Or do you want to join people like myself who have chosen flight, whether it's perpetual travel as I do or whether it's just finding the best safe haven for you to live in and just going there and making a new life? We're going to be covering all this information, but I think that this government shutdown is very telling. Because no one knows when this is going to be resolved.  That's the important lesson that people have learned here, but the government being a mafia, it will rise again. We all know that. It will take a ding in its credibility, but it will rise again likely in a matter of weeks. But just look at how the government shutdown is being treated. Things like the FCC website being shut down is a clear indication of what's happening. We've talked before in this show about the fact that, for example, going back thousands of years, government militaries, the military, which is one thing that most people, conservatives especially, but most people say, hey, the military is important. We may want to shrink it. We may want to stop the Fakata wars, but yeah, country needs a military. That's one part of government we need. But we've talked on this show how, if you go back thousands of years, governments use the military just like anything else, just like the way they're applying the shutdown. They use it for their own purposes. The military will guard the capital first. They'll guard you later. If you're in Los Angeles, if you're in Portland, if you're in Miami, if you're in the heart of the United States, they don't care about you. Sure, if something happens, they'll respond. They'll do something if it's an isolated incident. Sure, they'll send the National Guard out if there's flooding and they'll put the sandbags out and they'll do all of that, but if things really hit the fan, you're going to be a sitting duck until they decide that the capital is secure. They're going to put all their resources into securing their capital. And that's just one of a number of examples that we've seen throughout history of how government is very self-serving. The so-called government shutdown, this Bally Hoode shutdown that Obama is saying that people are going to be falling out of trees and conking their heads open and children are going to be starving. The same playbook as always, same status playbook we've heard from my entire life.  That same playbook, all they're shutting down is the 17%. All they're shutting down are the things that you might actually need. And so this is why I believe that this passport to freedom event is so important because things will get worse. FATCA and all the capital controls and all the other financial instruments of doom and gloom that the U.S. government is legislating will get worse. You'll have fewer places to put your money going forward and the U.S. government will in general make things more and more difficult for you. The same way that governments throughout history have made it more difficult to escape, the more draconian the regime becomes. And so I'm not, look, you know very clearly what my lifestyle is and you can read all the different places that I report from at nomadcapitalist.com, but I don't tell people they should do what I do. If you are convinced that you have to stay in the United States, so be it. But you need to be prepared because the government will, the next government shutdown, will impact your wallet in a way that you cannot dream possible. The next government shutdown I believe will involve massive wealth confiscation. If you think it can't happen, look at what happened in Cyprus when they shut things down. Look at what's happening in Argentina. Look at what happened in Poland.  Don't, don't argue that these countries are worse or, or less civilized than your countries. How many people do you know that have talked about moving to Argentina as an example of a great bastion of freedom? A lot of Americans have done it. And here they are siphoning off every penny from their citizenry. They did it in Cyprus, a member of the Enlightened European Union. They can do it anywhere. And you're seeing how the government reacts when it's back is up against a wall. They point the gun at you. They don't care about you or your needs or anything that you need or the benefits of government. It's all about maintaining power. And so at this Passport to Freedom event, which you can find out more about at Passport tofreedomevent.com, I want you to join me here because this is very important. The government will get more and more bold. They're spewing a line of BS now that is unimaginable. You never would have dreamed they could have, could have gotten away with this. And the next time they do it, they'll be more empowered. Yes, their reputation has taken a ding, but at the end of the day, people have a short memory. And so the next time they do it, I believe there will be massive wealth confiscation. And if you're not prepared, you'll be a victim. So passport tofreedomevent.com. Get your ticket for our event in Las Vegas. I want to see you there. You can go to the website and see all the speakers. Like I said, Peter Schiff will be there. He is an outspoken guy on these topics, how to protect yourself, how to protect your money. Where are the safe havens? And over a dozen other experts, but the bottom line is we will be discussing where are the safe havens stuff we don't talk about in this show stuff we don't talk about on the website. Stuff that will be inner circle secrets only for people who believe that they need to be at this event. So you need to get your ticket now because the early bird special that we're running will not last forever. Most people wait until the last minute to get their ticket and they will pay a lot more than you do if you buy right now. I don't know of any events really that are more affordable than our events. So go to passport tofreedomevent.com. That's passport to freedomevent.com. Passport the word to to freedomevent.com. Get your ticket today and make sure the next government shutdown does not hurt your pocketbook or your family. Coming up next step in Consola, we're going to talk to him about liberty, the art of perpetual travel and more. I'm Andrew Henderson, nomadcapitalist.com. We will return. Anderson, nomadcapitalist.com. This is the Nomad Capitalist Report. Stefan Kinsella is with may he's the editor of Libertarian Papers, a Libertarian writer and attorney in the land of the free in Houston talking about so many issues and I want to delve into this some theoretical stuff but also I want to discuss with him the pros and cons of living a nomad lifestyle and can it be done can you do it with a family and that but Stefan welcome to the show. Let's start with this because you are a lawyer and you've written books and I mean you've got a quite a publishing history. One of the things that I hear you talking about with a lot of people and on your own site you've interviewed Lou Rockwell and you're all over the place is IP intellectual property. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm with you in the freedom boat the anarcho-capitalist boat the let's get the government let's just shut forget about the 17% shut down which is let's just shut the whole thing down but I want you to explain because I think this is a very awakening moment for the entrepreneur who thinks that they're entirely pro-freedom but maybe there's a little bit of statism in there in them. Talk about your argument against intellectual property I find this fascinating. Well how the system works and what people think about it and how they navigate the system um aspects of a private western capitalist pro-property rights you know free market feature realize that there are complex things um so everyone is used to certain features of modern society they're used to taxes they're used to war they're used to the drug war they're used to regulations they're used to bribes and graft and voting and politics wait wait wait wait there's no there's no graft in the united states that please if that's only in the third world country it's all legal all of course all right go ahead you're right so if you call something a property right it must be property right because the people who they call that are experts um and so just like you no please continue no I was just gonna say you know the the idea is that just like you or a producer of I don't know let's say cars or chests that you make from wood or some kind of object that you sell on the market that also the objects of your intellect that you create like poems or novels or movies or music recordings lyrics etc paintings these things are also objects of commerce that should be the subject of property rights and because the government system has labeled them property rights we must consider them to be property rights so my view came to be that there's a fundamental fallacy here which is number one relying upon what the government says you can never trust a state um there's always an ulterior motive the fundamental problem is that patent and copyright are basically government legislative legal privileges that attempt to they're well they're based upon censorship of ideas and monopolized control of of commerce and industry and the idea that we modern advocates of freedom individualism free markets private property would hold these things up as aspects of the private property order is literally to my mind obscene because they are the actual anathema of private property rights in fact what I would say is the following if you if you just want to list like off your hand the worst things the state does to society okay you have more taxes government education right central banking the drug war these things are all horrible and they're hard to get rid of and we know that but at least libertarians realize that they are all contrary to property rights and at least we know that that's what we're fighting against but if you take if you take the very next worst thing the government does which is intellectual property which is patent and copyright law and to my mind it's up there with all these other things I just mentioned is up there with inflation central banking the drug war regulation of business taxation government education and propaganda and real war the differences that it masquerades under the title of property rights so unlike the others which at least are identifiable by us as clear evils of the state intellectual property confuses and discombobulates libertarians and free market advocates because we think well we're favorite property rights how can we be against this kind of property right so in a way is the worst evil of all this perpetuity about the state because it's insidious well that's what the government is that the state has really uh you know they've morphed over the years the tactics haven't changed the desperation hasn't changed but I think that governments in the US in particular have become experts in marketing it so I agree with you on that and I agree with you on crony capitalism just look what's happening now in california with ride-sharing companies for example where the big entrenched crony capitalists in the taxi business get up and say uh people shouldn't be able to drive their friends around I shouldn't be able to drive you around houston in exchange for a fee if you need to ride crony capitalism of course alive and well in in the united states but let me play devil's advocate because you are an attorney I'm a big fan of the tv show the shark tank you hear people like kevin o'leary saying that these little businesses are going to get crushed by a cockroach and the one salvation that some of these businesses have is that they can go out and invent something get a patent on it and prevent apple or walmart or whomever else from coming in and ripping them off and stomping on them like said cockroach what do you say to that well first of all show on tv is the shark tank it's probably the best show uh on television and one of the sharks is mark cuban and he actually has used them as well to endow a chair at the electronic frontier foundation which is a chair called something like uh the mark cuban chair to eliminate stupid patents so i'm actually on mark cuban's side of this issue um i don't think kevin o'leary and the other guys are wrong to ask about ip rights given our system you know it would be like saying you know if you're trying to uh sell a utility system to a to a municipality in an american town what are your connections with the government given our system you know the reality is you're going to succeed only if you have certain connections and given our ip system the reality is you're only going to succeed if you have certain a savvy ip strategy which means you're acquiring patents you're doing deals you have attorneys who are advising you etc um the problem is not how people respond to the system you know this is like criticizing the welfare system because people take advantage of it the problem with welfare is not that people will you know you have a welfare system and you say if you sign up if you qualify we will give you free money free goods the problem is not that people respond to that in fact you couldn't expect them not to respond to it of course if if no one responded to it then it would we wouldn't have an objection to the system in the first place the fact is that people do respond to it so the problem is the system in the first place not the fact that people respond to it it's the same thing with intellectual property like patent and copyright given our current system where you have patents you're going to have companies have a natural incentive to hire attorneys like me to acquire patents which they can use either aggressively or defensively in this big huge a wasteful gain of patent battles against each other what it results in is oligopolies because you have large companies amass patent fortunes they can sue each other and sue small companies their fellow victims that are large can counter with their own patent portfolios and they can reach a settlement like a decont okay so it's like an armistice it's like the large countries have a lock on the world's legal systems and the ruling system like we have roughly 200 countries in the world it's the same thing in certain industries like the smartphone industry apple samsung google these other country companies they all have thousands of patents and they use them to fight each other and they can finally come to a detente a settlement and they will finally do that after paying hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars of legal fees to attorneys we're second afford because they're the incumbent large companies but what it does is it erects barriers to entry to smaller companies so these patent monopolies lead to oligopolies and cartilized industries and then the state steps in and says oh well we can't have monopoly system in this area so we're going to apply our any trust laws so we have the government basically helping to cartilize an oligopolize industry because of its patent grants it's monopoly patent grants and then to fix the problem that it helps to cause it's going to apply its monopoly laws well and what you look at right now is the example of everyone talking about the health care exchanges in the united states and compare that to you know what would i and ran say what would you say about apple you don't have to buy an ipad but when you look at it a different way apple as the oligopoly that you're talking about or as you know one of the behemoth companies that's out there and they are participating in crony capitalism but part of what they're doing is applying for patents that well for example can perhaps disable your smartphone from taking pictures or doing whatever else in political rallies that then they're creating technologies you could say okay well their technologies how they're used is one thing but certainly they have to maintain a position in bed with the state and their state is perhaps the most oppressive effectively oppressive government on earth uh what do you say about companies like apple and and uh and what they're doing with some of their patents well it's a difficult situation because i mean i think in an absolute term what apple is doing is is a horrible injustice but on the other hand they're playing the game you can't really blame them for playing the game you have you know directors and managers of apple they're responsible to the shareholders the shareholders want to maximize their their their share value so how do you do that you have to take advantage of every market opportunity you have or every opportunity you have to make a profit and under the existing regulations and laws so let's say apple acquires five thousand ten thousand patents which it has to do to be responsible if it doesn't do that it's left naked in defense from competitors so every company has an incentive to waste millions and millions of dollars on people like me to acquire patents now once you have this patent arsenal what are you going to do with it you're sitting on an asset it can be used defensively but it could also be used offensively so let's say you're on the board of directors of apple or your ceo you know or one of the top managers and you become aware that there's a competitor like samsung or motorola or google or whatever who is manufacturing a product that is allegedly infringing one of your millions or thousands of patents and if you enforce this patent you could get a big market advantage worth let's say let's just say three hundred billion dollars okay a third of a trillion dollars okay now if you are on the board of directors of apple what are you supposed to do say look i am a libertarian i don't believe in patents so i'm going to say i recommend that we we tell the shareholders you should give up one third of the value of your shares to enforce the you know the moral idea of libertarianism it's just unrealistic to expect that if you do that you're going to be sued or going to be fired at best i you know i recall saying it maybe 13 years old uh you know what why would it can i was first you know wanting to start businesses why would you want to run a publicly traded company be responsible to these people but you're you're exactly right and so as a small business owner obviously you do have the freedom to to put up the signs on your door like we see on the internet where it says hey uh government employees not welcome here personally as a business owner it bothers me a little bit that uh that people would would throw away money like that the best thing to do to people you don't like is to take their money but that's their freedom and that's a freedom unfortunately that the cronies who uh have to answer the shareholders don't have what what i wonder uh stephen steven consola uh is isn't this just a justification and we'll talk about this when we come back isn't this just a justification for what we talk about here that maybe the system while not perfect elsewhere has become broken beyond repair in the united states i'm happy to talk about that i'm andrew henderson we'll come back with uh steven consola his website steven consola dot com author editor at libertarian papers dot com this is the nomad catholic report i'm andrew henderson this is the nomad catholic report steven consola with me from steven consola dot com libertarian papers is also his website he's a multi-decade libertarian patent attorney and expert in uh so many of these issues but uh what i wanted to get into uh you and i were talking about sopa and pipa and all these laws that the u.s is trying to use to basically reward their cronies in hollywood and the music business uh and you now see a new threat that just like fat cat tried to do with banking the u.s tried to make every other country and every world bank the the bitch of the irs you're saying it's now coming with ip tell us more so here's how it originates in america so there's a libertarian sentiment here imperialist and activist country in this in the 60s 70s george reisman and his capitalism book just a tax Rothbard uh for saying this kind of stuff um but the truth is it's not surprising what you have is you have a large country which has an internal free market which is the u.s and therefore this large country generates a large amount of wealth which is good for the people but if you have a state in control which we do which every country does the state then can parasite off of that and become very wealthy and powerful so this explains why the u.s government has been for you know a good century now the most powerful influential you know super state well let's let's explain one thing steven i mean there's there's there's one major reason why that's the case and you look at uh you know we just passed columbus day not long ago and uh you hear everyone talking about oh this new world was discovered and look at what happened well the united states guarded how much of this power by the fact that it had a very simple policy of murdering and manipulating anyone who got in its way on its path to make it all the way to the next ocean if it were just hey we got a couple colonies here we're gonna hang out in the eastern seaboard it would be a nothing burger like everything else but because of a genocidal policy or this imperialism that you speak of that's why doesn't that speak to exactly what you're talking about no exactly i agree completely with you i read your post on uh why we call ourselves america and i agree completely with this jingoism and this nationalism and this this uh this modern american perspective on things um that's why i said you have to have two things combined you have to have a large country which is also has an internal free market so you have other countries that have free markets which are small you know lichtenstein maybe hong kong i don't know but they're they're small uh even canada right uh but so america has the combination is the largest with a big free market internally but when you have a combination you have a state that can parasitically take by taxes and other other means resources from this healthy prosperous free market beast right now yes we could have gotten this big if we hadn't killed the indians and become imperialistic etc but this is just another symptom of the fact that we're imperialistic in general so the us you know tries to use its dominant force in the world which has been dominant since world war two if not earlier to impose its wishes on the rest of the world through treaties like the burn convention the wto get the united nations uh various treaties uh and arrangements right the dollars the world preserve currency breton woods the whole deal um it may be crumbling now it may be getting harder to enforce it's always a dynamic shifting thing right but the point is at the behest of special interest groups like the pharmaceutical industry like the uh software industry like hollywood and the music industry which are all heavily dependent upon patent or copyright intellectual property rights um i mean basically the america united states of america is the country that is most dominated by the ip industry in the world it's really to the disadvantage of almost every other country to increase their ip regimes and so you're saying the us is basically going to thrust its its weight upon these other countries and force them like it does with everything else force them to cooperate although i don't really know if that's uh i mean when you when you get out of the us and you look at many of these places uh there's not so much enforcement in many of these places it's pretty weak they can sign on to whatever they want but uh enforcement can be very lax yeah but it's been it's been ratcheting up every year for the last say 20 years and it's getting worse and worse and every country that signs on to the to the white boat treaty the burn convention get and now the the tpp the trans specific partnership which is coming up they are going to be agreeing like so let me give an example right now the burn convention which was passed in the 80s i believe requires every country to have a minimum copyright standard of life of the author plus 50 years which is insane right and which is far greater than the original copyright idea which is 14 years used to be 14 years maybe 14 times two 28 years now it's life of the author plus 50 years that's the minimum standards you have to meet if you're a member of the burn convention which is pretty much universal and in fact the us foisted that on the country in the world and now if when people say we need to reform the copyright standard and maybe go down to let's say 20 years whatever the us says well we can't do that because we have an international obligation to respect burn so they've kind of handshacked you know handcuffed themselves on purpose but but the point is that's the minimum standard the us by by virtue of sonny bono remember share and sonny bono in the 19 uh i think 80s or 90s extended the terms even more by 20 more years it was called the copyright term extension act it was done at the behest of disney and mickey mouse lobby to make sure mickey mouse didn't go into the public domain so now in the us the minimum term is life of the author plus 70 years okay but every other country now we have a difference so it could be that very soon some Beatles songs will become public domain very soon or at a certain point in britain before they become public domain in america even though they're a british band so you have these bizarre things so you have american the american government twisting the arms of other countries like russia china india japan which is no surprise and i understand the guys in the shark tank and the vc guys will continue to invest wherever they think they can make money they'll go to cypress they'll go to wherever and that's fine uh but uh let's be honest uh i as a as an individual have said no i will not do business in the state of california i wonder why some larger company does not say no it's not worth running a store or our grocery chain or whatever else in the state of california and i think eventually that mindset what it's kind of the four-minute mile effect once someone successfully uh takes extracts themselves from the united states and says there's plenty of money to be made in china plenty of money to be made in russia and all these other economies we can do without the us things maybe will start to change and so thank god that russia and china are two big examples of places that don't have this nonsense and that maybe a good fight back uh but it leads me um steven consala to the question aren't we just and we got about five minutes you and i have a friendly disagreement on doesn't this just mean you just you should just pack up and just say sayonara the question is where do you go to you know not not everyone can just pack up and go they have commitments they have families they have do you agree with ronald reagan that this is that if we don't protect freedom here it's all over and the world goes nuclear obviously i don't you don't no no i don't america special actually um they happen to be dominant in some ways right now i hope you never run for public political office down there hope you never turn attorney into uh i know you're not the status but uh don't don't have a change of heart because that's the line right there the america is not special you'll be buried right there one line yeah you're right yeah i don't i don't vote so i wouldn't run for office uh so so now uh no i'm totally opposed to all that jingoism and all that crap uh america is unique in some ways it has a different concept of identity um to be an american means to be a citizen whereas to be an italian means to be an italian there's a difference right i mean and that's good in some ways and bad in some ways uh for example immigrant large immigration here i think would be obviously beneficial to the country whereas you know if you open the borders in switzerland or france what would happen it's a little bit different situation because they're more ethically nationally homogenous and and sort of oriented so there's differences around the around the world and that's that's uh you know there's no shame in admitting that but no i don't think america's special i hope that we become less dominant in the world i hope that america's role becomes one or one of many than the dominant voice because you don't believe that people have somewhere to go though you don't believe that it's it's as easy as just saying you know what i don't want to be here detail because my personal situation um i have a that there's somewhere there's something you can do but it feels to me like every every option is fraught with difficulty like yeah there are something there's something better about moving to mexico or moving to the philippines or moving to vietnam or moving to new zealand or whatever or getting a second passport but there's also costs involved so nothing is unambiguously an obvious choice and and the reason is because the the state really is has succeeded in this modern age i don't think they'll be around forever but at the present time i don't think we can deny that the state doesn't pose costs on us you you believe that the state is basically knowingly manipulating the fact that people want to go and see uh people only going to see a nanny on uh or a pappy on sunday and so therefore they will not go and they'll continue to pay whatever ransom the government demands they'll continue to be happy to have their crotch cropped when they go to fly and see pappy you're saying that the state manipulates that well i would say knowingly because when we talk about the state as a metaphor in a sense right the state is not an independent entity that exists it's a way of conceptually classifying a sort of hierarchical organization a society that has a sort of uh mission of its own is composed of individuals but i don't think all the individuals that constitute it are aware of what it's doing well but but chuck schumer when chuck schumer promotes an act that says if you renounce your u.s citizenship and in he and his infinite wisdom on the toilet one day decides that it was because of tax purposes that you could never come back isn't that designed to basically say look at everything you'll be missing you won't be able to get 49 cent drinks anymore at the at the at the qt isn't that what it is isn't that about trying to pray on people's fears oh what if i can ever go back to the united states and and you i don't think it's just it's not just praying on their fears it's just praying upon it's really taking advantage of what they value basically you're you're coursing them what they're saying is we know that you were born in the u.s you have context here you have a history here you love your country right or your maybe not your maybe i sometimes and they're saying that you know if the price of keeping this is that you have to abide by our rules so yeah they use that to manipulate people i think it's totally intentional i i just i agree completely with that and it's totally evil and it's totally cynical and it's totally dishonest and manipulative but they can get away with it to a certain extent now because into the extent that people accept the myth that the state is necessary i'm with you although i also believe that you know there has to come a time people like you and i who believe that listen nobody owes you anything there's a time when the people who want to join us can join us and will support them and will be there and will provide them what they need and we can network and and be a resource but there comes a time when when the building is burning down and we can only take so many people and if you want to stay and you want to run around inside the building you're looking to take things out with you and looking to to not help us we can only do so much and that listen there is a cost to doing these things uh yeah you know it may not be perfect but are you you know what are you fighting for what do you stand for uh they're away i think that there are ways to get around it but i i appreciate your opinion uh stefan cancella stefan cancella.com is the website he also edits the libertarian papers website and uh works with all the guys in this uh anarcho capitalist field lu rockwell all the way on down jeffrey talker a friend of our show so uh stefan thanks for being on the show no i agree there's only so much we can do uh we fight for liberty as best we can and i think as long as we're united in our fight for uh truth justice honesty integrity with each other we live by virtues that we all know in our hearts with the right virtues to live by and we have to just keep an open eye you know have a perspective on what the government relates about what the state's about um that's all we can do in our individual lives live the best lives we can set an example for other people and try to keep an open mind when we talk to a fellow mind to people even if we have different uh ideas and i appreciate yours and i appreciate the the the chance to just speak with you stefan cancella uh his website and also his podcast check out his podcast as well online thanks for being on the show this is the nomad capitalist report