You know, some farmers agents can sell other products, but farmers has first right of refusal on it. But you get this, really you're in a system in an independent agency situation, which is what my company is, we're more brokerage, right? So we have all kinds of different carriers to meet different needs. I might suggest one carrier in San Francisco, but another carrier out in the East Bay for different reasons because the carriers have different appetites. And, but all agents have this in common, you should ask them if they have any experience in claims and if they're going to help you. The real question is, if I get into trouble, will you be my advocate and are you going to help me? How am I gonna get help? Because there's no one on this call that speaks insurance fluently with me. And if you don't speak insurance fluently and you have a claims adjuster telling you things you don't understand, those claims can go south just because of that. So the real question is, I've met some state farm agents and some farmers agents who made a study of their craft and would help people. And I've met some independent agencies who were terrible with their job and who couldn't help you if they wanted to because they never learned anything about insurance. So I think the best thing to do is to ask somebody what they're willing to do because people are on the same continuum as the insurance companies. Some are really good at what they do and some aren't. Was there anything else? That's it for now, thank you. Okay, so that was ordinance and law. And now I talk about sewer backup. I talk about sewer backup a lot. Like I said, it's the number one cause of loss in my insurance agency. And the reason is is because my agency has the same statistics as everybody else's, right? If you have a small loss, you know, maybe it's an electrical fire or some smoke or water and water intrusion from a windstorm or something, you know, those claims are small, but these things really add up fast. And it happens all the time for different reasons. Like if a sewer, if a, and people will tell me it's impossible to have that happen to them for a myriad of reasons. But the thing about water is it goes where there's least resistance. So pressure pushes water through pipes and drain pipes are a closed system. So if you have a swimming pool's worth of water on one end of the street and it's pushing water, it can get up into your second story. It can get up into your third story. It can go up a hill and it can get into your house. I've seen that happen where, you know, or there's an entire sewer system has a root blockage in it and the whole neighborhood ends up backing up. This happens very frequently in Walnut Creek, California where the North Gate area has terrible drainage system. So when this happens, carriers know when this happens, it's very expensive. And first of all, you have to have emergency cleanup.  Anything that comes out of a drain is a hazmat material. So it has to have the people that show up are gonna be in like hazmat suits. Anything porous has to be removed. Once something porous has been touched by black water, it is no longer fit for human use. So if it's flooring or sub flooring, if you have a house that's on a foundation and you have plywood subfloor and that gets sewer back up on it, it has to go. Here, any furniture that's porous, textiles, rugs, you know, carpets, anything like that all has to be ripped out and thrown away. You can't save it. Any kind of laminate flooring, anything that has particle board on the bottom of it is toast when you have this type of backup. So anything that's left like concrete, you have to come in and do enzyme treatments. It's very specialized treatments. We have to bring in an environmental hygienist. So when we have these claims, I usually have someone come in who's got a PhD in environmental hygiene and they do a bacteria test of the home. And then we have that person tell our crew what needs to be done. And then the last person that leaves that house when we're done with all of this is that environmental hygienist and you run a bacteria check for the house and the ambient bacteria in the neighborhood. All of this adds up really fast. We have these in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and you can't live in the house when you've got this thing going on. So if you don't have a loss of use provision on your policy for this, then it's not covered either.  So all of that begins to add up to large numbers. It's very important to have coverage for this if you can find a carrier that will cover it. Many, it's an absolute exclusion. Some offer up to $10,000. There's only a few carriers where you can buy broad form sewer backup coverage. It's one of the reasons that we'll do business with a carrier. The first thing I ask when we're gonna do business with a carrier, if they want us to represent them is how much ordinance and law can we buy and how much sewer backup can we buy? How much uninsured motorists can we buy? There's some things that are really important that I wanna know that that carrier does. If they don't do them, I'd rather just not deal with them. But this is a very common loss, the most common and it's something to look out for. There's language in every policy about it. Either it's excluded or it's brought back in by endorsement. Brian, we've got a couple of questions. Yeah. The first one is around replacement cost and the true value of a replacement cost. So a lot of people get the value from their insurance company's website. So how do they know what the replacement cost truly is? Well, a good way to do that would be, the best way to do it is have the house appraised for its replacement cost. When you have the house refinance, sometimes the mortgage company will try to do that but most of those people don't really know that much about replacement cost. I mean, you could ask a contractor, hey, what would it cost to rebuild this house from the ground up? So I don't use a cost calculator on my replacement cost estimates. I use a cost per foot method. And so if I tell a contractor, hey, I'm gonna rebuild this house from the foundation up and I want to have this type of flooring and this type of stone and this type of cabinets, what would that cost me per foot? That contractor should be able to just give you a number because they think in terms of cost per foot. So they don't really have to come out and give you a full on estimate of it. They just have to tell it. You can ask them, hey, what would it be per foot on this particular house? It also depends on what you want done. So like if you're insuring a Victorian home and you want that restored to that standard, that's gonna be a much more expensive house to rebuild than if you were going to rebuild the interior, the modern interior because all of the gingerbread and all of that molding and everything takes a long time and it's all custom cut, right? So, but we use it, we use a cost per foot method. Most contractors use cost per foot method when they're talking about being rebuilt to give you a ballpark. So if you have a house and you know what's in it and you tell the contractor, hey, what would it cost me to rebuild this if you were gonna do it? They can usually give you a ballpark. And if you're within like $100,000 of that number and you have some extended replacement costs, you should be okay. Those cost estimators on the insurance carriers are almost always wrong. Even the carriers that we work with, Safeco, Travelers, Encompass, those carriers all have these cost estimators that I routinely come in at least 40% higher than their cost estimator uses. So I would not use the cost estimator, I would ask the contractor or someone who knows construction, that's the best way to do it. Use the method of cost per foot. It's not, it doesn't seem scientific, but it's, but that's the best way to do it. Gets you into that ballpark range. Yeah. We have another question about HOAs and I think this probably covers like people who are in a condo or it's not their own standalone structure and so they have insurance through that HOA. How do they, like can they get insurance that covers what their HOA policy doesn't? And like, how would they know what their HOA policy covers and like where that gap is? That's a really great question. The vast majority of HOAs for condo, where there's condo cover the exterior which is building property and they cover the roof and they'll replace plumbing and electrical. So those are all building property. Everything walls in the glass, the fixtures, the cabinets, you know, bathroom fixtures, all of the things that make it livable are usually building coverage in a condo. So, or excuse me, they're usually unit owners coverage in a condo. So in San Francisco, our average cost per foot is around $550 a foot for a regular building. Like if you're gonna build a house in San Francisco, say out in the avenues, you're probably looking at $550 a foot. That goes up considerably in some cases and you've insured them for a lot more than that. And I'm just talking about on an average.  If it's a very expensive condo, you know, you have a lot of really nice stuff in it, maybe it's higher than that. But I routinely see condos, you know, insured for 30 and 40, $50 a foot because no one really understands that all that interior is where the money is on a bill. The kitchens and bathrooms are what is really expensive to build on a house or a condo. So I would say that you take your square footage and you divide your current coverage on your condo policy by that. And then you say, how much am I insured for? And if it's not $250 a foot, you probably are gonna have a problem if you have a loss of some kind. And same thing on a regular house, in an average house, if you're under $550 a foot on your home in San Francisco, you ought to be asking yourself, am I insured a value? Because San Francisco is a very expensive place to build, you know, even in California, which is extremely expensive compared to the rest of the country, except for New York City. San Francisco shines as an example of expense because there's so many different codes and things you have to follow there that don't exist in some other places. So, and you'll know that the HOA has CCNRs and they're gonna be extremely vague. It's really hard to redo those CCNRs. And if you try to do it, what you're gonna do is say, well, it says it's covered here, but it's not covered there. Unless it says, unless those CCNRs say, we're gonna rebuild your condo, you know, back to its original condition, you really need to have coverage for it because most HOA associations do not wanna carry that risk because it's too much money on the insurance policy for the HOA and no one wants to pay for it. Back to your sewer backup. So this is the largest cause of claims you said, but wouldn't the city be responsible for the damage if it was due to a blockage in like the city sewers? Yeah, that's actually a great observation. And in a lot of cases, that's true. In fact, we've subrogated, subrogated the fancy word for just taking money from a city or whoever's responsible for the hack. But here's the way this works. If there's a sewer backup and it gets into your home and you're going to sue the city, you have to be out of pocket and show the loss to the city in order to get paid by the city. So you might win that lawsuit if you have to file a suit or they may pay it, but it could take a couple of years to go through that process. It's far better to have insurance for that, have us pay the claim, and then we go file the lawsuit against the city of San Francisco or the city of Walnut Creek or whatever it is, because that may or may not work out. Sometimes they pay and sometimes they win the defense and say, well, that wasn't really our fault because of some other things. So it's always better I think to have somebody bring the suit if it has to happen, who does it all the time and who knows what they're doing and to have a claim paid and get on with your life, then it is to think, okay, well maybe two years from now I'll be able to move back into my union when I have the money to redo this claim. I don't know how that made any sense, but I like to rely on an insurance carrier. And not that I love them. I mean, look, never think Amy Bach, who's the executive director of United Policyholders, their base in San Francisco always says, the people at insurance companies are friendly, but never confuse the fact that they're not really your friends. So the more contractual obligations the carrier has that you can read and demonstrate better, I think. Thank you. We have more questions coming in. So our next one is about the expense and cost of insurance and it can get really expensive. And so if people are worried that they are gonna look into their policy and realize that they have a coverage gap, they're worried that covering that is gonna make their policy unaffordable. Are there any trade-offs or ways that to make a policy more affordable with? Deductible, yeah. Yeah, so a lot of times I only see very low coverage and very low deductible. On the first slide, I bumped that, we ended up having to more than double the amount of coverage that the person had on that house. And we increased that annual cost from only by $700, but we also increased the deductible to $10,000. And that sounds like a lot. I mean, and if you can't afford a $10,000 deductible, that's just the reality. But a lot of people who have a house or a condo, we're talking about the expense of redoing it. Losing $10,000 is onerous, but it's not the same as losing $100,000 or $200,000. So it's better to ensure the value and ensure to the potential claim than it is to ensure for a lower deductible and then take the chance of not having the coverage. And a lot of times there's a sliding scale. So maybe you buy 50% sewer backup on the house instead of 100% or maybe you hedge your bets a little bit. Every situation is a little different and every home is a little different and every year built. I mean, so if there's no one answer fits all, but you can control those moving parts a little bit sometimes, but really the place to control your cost is on deductible because when you tell a carrier I'm retaining this amount of risk, usually they will lower your deductible. And the same thing, I'm not really talking about auto today, but I'll throw this in. Like if you have $100 deductible on your auto insurance and you have $50,000 limit, for uninsured motorists you'd be way better off to have a $1,000 deductible and a $500 limit on uninsured motorists. That costs about the same, but if you ever were injured, who cares about $1,000? What we care about is having money if you can't work again because somebody hurt you. So the deductible is where you retain risk and then ensure to catastrophic, which is the industry tends to do it backwards.  Thank you. What about for those, most of us are here on the peninsula, earthquake insurance, it's expensive and like any words of wisdom or things to watch out for, is it worth it? So earthquake insurance is an interesting one because it also has some sublimates usually. You might get 10% or $10,000 worth of ordinance and law. The California earthquake authority policy has a clause in it that says if they were only going to pay up until they run out of money and then they'll pay everyone on a pro-rata basis. So it's a true pool and there's not a lot of guarantees on the California earthquake authority policy. And if there's an earthquake that destroys the peninsula that's probably going to destroy the California earthquake authority's assets under management, right? Because there's gonna be a lot of claims.  Particularly if it happens to be the San Andreas fault instead of the Loma Prieta fault, right? Like we've got that San Andreas fault kind of hanging off the side of us here in San Francisco. So the question is, what does earthquake do? And I think of earthquake as liquidity. So I don't think of it as a replacement cost policy because I'm not really talking a lot about this but there's this function called extended replacement costs where a carrier will, if a house burns down and like in 2017, houses were rebuilding for about 190% of the insured value. So a million dollar house was rebuilding for 1.9. So that demand surge is gonna happen if you have an earthquake too. So if you have a million dollar house insured in an earthquake you're only gonna get $850,000 max from the carrier and even then you might have some limits internally on having to rebuild the code and those types of things. So maybe you're going to get half to three quarters of the money that you're expecting and that's not gonna rebuild the house without increasing the basis, basis being the money that you have put in the house to own it. So the question is, is that worth it? And the answer depends on who you are. Some people think of it who have very low mortgages who've been saving and living in their house for a long time may feel like it's worth it to get some amount of money and then they could tear down the rest of the house and solve a lot and they would be okay. Others would be like, you know, that's not worth it at all.  You know, they have to forgive the loan. You would get a 1099 from the bank for the income for the forgiveness of the loan. And now you'd be between you and the IRS but a young person maybe could declare bankruptcy or something means I don't know. It all depends on a situation by the person and what they would do in any given situation and what the plan around it is. But I would say I would not buy earthquake insurance just thinking, okay, I'm gonna rebuild my house. I would buy earthquake insurance mindfully thinking what if I only got one half of this amount of money and what would I do with it and where would I go and how would I manage that? Because people will do something to feel safe but not really be safe. If that makes any sense at all. It's worth a conversation and certainly a back and forth with a financial advisor, you know, in a loss or something what would I do? It's a really good idea. And a point of clarification though. So even if somebody has earthquake insurance which is double the cost of like their own policy they might not be fully insured because there's a pool of money that would run out. Yes, yes. California earthquake authority has a clause and it says we're only gonna pay at, you know if we run out of money we'll pay you on a pro-rout of basis. And then there's some other smaller carriers like Geovera and Palomar and ICAT and there's one other I can't think of the name but all these small carriers, you know could also run out of money and then you're dealing with a guarantee association that could also run out of money. So, you know, a carrier's financial ability to actually pay makes as much difference as whether or not you have the coverage. And, you know, I've seen many there's some small carriers that we thought were very nice carriers over the years that we never did business with because they weren't big enough. And I was afraid that if they had losses they wouldn't be able to pay them. CIG, California Capital Group is one and they're gone. The Paradise Fire wiped them out. So I do worry about that a lot, you know so if we sell a California earthquake authority policy one of those small policies, you know like Geovera it always comes with a caveat that we're disclosing that we feel that you should really understand this earthquake game. Well, you know there's some carriers like Chubb for instance who write a full earthquake policy and will pay you in cash and have no exclusions at all and they're never gonna go bankrupt from an earthquake but here's the thing. There's so much more expensive that they're almost to the point where it's unaffordable to buy it. So, you know, do you make a decision between never having another vacation in your life because you're paying your earthquake insurance? I don't think anyone's gonna do that. Not normal, not a normal somebody. So, what about those of us who haven't bought in San Francisco yet? So we are renting. What should we be thinking about for insurance? You should be off the hook. Yeah, you should be thinking about same things, right?  How much personal property do you have if a renter is in a unit that has smoke or fire damage? How much personal property should you have? A lot of people might only have, they buy a renter's policy and they're really cheap so they buy $20 or $30,000 worth of insurance but really they have maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of things if they were to go through the closet or add up all the things that they bought at William's Sonoma every time they go or the William's Sonoma trip adds up over time, I can tell you. I love William's Sonoma. It's like my secret habit, right? Darri, I go buy all these things because I don't really need them but I love them and I have a lot of it, you know? But I only buy a hundred or $200 or $300 at a time, like scope, but it adds up. So think about what you've got and your clothing. If you have all these work clothes, how much would it cost to go replace all those work clothes? Now, I mean, I know we're all on Zoom now but we only have to buy one half of an outfit but still they're expensive, right? Okay, so I want to be conscious of the fact that we have 10 more minutes in the talk. So... So I'm just gonna, I'll just jump to this one real quick. Special limits on personal property, all insurance carriers have this. So if you have jewelry, art, silverware, things that you inherited or purchased, you know, fine arts, whatever it is, carriers all have a provision to deny a claim if you have a major loss and those things aren't itemized. So if you have a watch collection, for instance, that's your thing, everywhere you go, you buy a watch and they all get damaged in a fire, your carrier's gonna be like, oh yeah, you only have $5,000 total of watch and jewelry coverage or if you have an expensive engagement name or something like that, these are things that need to go on what's called a rider or a collections policy and you have to purchase coverage for them. So if your grandmother gave you her silverware and it's really an expensive set, it would be a good idea to put that on a some type of a rider if you wanna get value for it. Carriers have these supplements on high value, small property because, you know, sometimes people will have an expensive piece of art or something in the house and they'll suddenly the carrier gets surprised by one item that's worth $50,000, they don't wanna pay that. So that's a place that you need to be very careful about ensuring. And then this last thing I wanted to talk about is a redefinition of liability. So on home and renters insurance, this is true for all property insurance. Liability insurance has three facets, property damage, bodily injury and personal injury. Property damage is if you're out golfing and you put a golf ball through somebody's play glass window, that's property damage. That's covered under your homeowners insurance policy. Or if you were riding your bike across the Golden Gate Bridge and you crashed into somebody, that's bodily injury. That's also covered by your renters or your homeowners insurance policy. That liability goes with you. Personal injury is soft things like my feelings, mental anguish, invasion of privacy. It's all of the stuff that's not really bodily injury property damage but it's what someone sues for. So you hurt me with your bicycle but now I can't sleep at night and I'm sad. So I'm suing you for personal injury. Many carriers have taken personal injury out of their policy form. And by many, I mean almost all of them. State Farm, Farmers, Allstate, Travelers, and you name the carrier, I can tell you that they probably have to add it back in. And so it costs like $15. It's not a really big deal. But if someone sues you and mental anguish as a part of that or it's privacy and that's not endorsed, it's not covered. And the reason they've done this is because so many people sue each other over things that they say on Twitter and Facebook. I mean, I think everybody's been kind of watching this Twitter drama, right?  Or so personal injury, I'm sure no one on this call has ever done any of that, but that's all falls under personal injury. And so you wanna make sure you have it because if you get in a lawsuit and part of that allegation is mental language or some type of sadness or whatever, then you're not covered. One of our clients tried to evict someone and there were 11 complaints by the tenant on the eviction of personal injury, ranging from sexual harassment to evasion of privacy to whatever. And that cost us $80,000 to evict that person because we wanted to get rid of those complaints. Another claim of some students had made an accusation against the teacher, it was false. They were just playing around on Facebook. And this is when kids used Facebook. And that teacher got $360,000 from the school and damages because he was fired. And in that case was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount because of personal injury. So this is very important stuff. And then that was my last slide so I can answer any other questions for the rest of this in five minutes. Great, who can review my CCNR policy? Probably the best way to figure out if you've got coverage, because if you're asking about CCNR, you're probably asking about whether or not the HOA covers the interior of the condo. That's gonna be under insurance on the CCNRs. And I would just send an email to the board and say, hey, I just was in this insurance class and they were talking about coverage. Should I have insurance for the interior of this unit? And they'll probably tell you, yes, you need to have it. I mean, almost 90% of the CCNRs I've ever read require the owner of the condo unit to have their own coverage for the interior of the unit. No, and is it, so thinking about that gap with HOA coverage, does it make sense to get that gap coverage from the same company that does the base insurance? Should it be the same company, different company, does it matter? No, it doesn't matter at all. In fact, you're probably better off not having to be the same carrier. Because if travelers ensures the HOA and you have state farm as your coverage, the building coverage is a different ownership than the unit owner's coverage. And the duty of the carrier to the HOA is different than the duty that your carrier has to you. Every carrier has a specific duty to be insured. So to the HOA carrier, the unit owner really is an outsider. So there is no overlap in terms of how those two are going to interact. They're not going to talk and they're not going to cooperate. And what about... Okay, so I'm not sure what this means, but should the wall in insurance and an HOA cover the labor to rebuild? Yes, I know exactly what it means. So the question really is, if I'm insuring the property in my condo, walls in, should the insurance cover the labor? And the answer is yes. When we're calculating what the cost to replace is, and if I say something is $250 or $300 a foot, I'm talking about the cost of everything. That's the contractor's labor. That's the materials, that's everything included in that $250 or $300 per foot. We're calculating profit and labor into that too. And oh, one other thing, if you ask a contractor what your house is worth, make sure you say, I want to know what my cost took for you to do it. It's not your cost for you to do it because their cost might be $200 a foot, but when they add in their labor and their insurance and their overhead and everything, now it's at 400 because of all of that. So you want to know what your cost is, not their cost. All right, really quickly, could we go back to that second to last slide on yes, personal property, thank you. And then a separate question is around personal injury. How should we think about that and like how the dollar amounts to buy are there guidelines? Sure, if you add personal injury to your insurance policy, it will be covered to the amount of liability on your insurance policy. So if you have $100,000 of liability on your home policy and you add personal injury, you'll have $100,000 of personal injury. When it comes to liability insurance, the only way to know that you are covered correctly is to ask yourself, how do I align my interest and a carrier's interest? And the way you do that is by money. So if you have a net worth of $400,000 and you have $500,000 of liability, you're probably okay. If you have a net worth of a million dollars and you have $500,000 of liability, and you write that's insurance, liability insurance, the carrier has less to lose than you do. So the carrier's interests are the carrier, not you. But if you have a million dollars of net worth and say $2 million of liability insurance, now the carrier's defending its own money, not you. And anytime you're forcing a carrier to defend itself, you're we're in a better position. And that rule goes all the way up to about $10 million of net worth. Once you're above that, you start talking about cost of values because it's slightly different conversation. But you only wanna have a little bit more liability if you can than your net worth. Because then the carrier is forced to have your interest at heart. If you have a $500,000 policy when the carrier's trying to settle a claim for $100,000, and it's really stressful. So I recommend having enough liability that your carrier's on the hook. And when you add personal injury, that's on a home or a renter's policy. It will always be to the amount of coverage that you have there. So you have on that policies. You don't add personal injury in sections. You either have it or you don't have it. It's they endorse it on or they don't. Okay, thank you. We are at time. So I wanted to say thank you so much, Brian, for spending time with us. We've got a lot of people echoing that sentiment in the chats here. And wanted to put in a plug for our next session that is just getting started now on being a smart investor. And Brian, if you wanted to stay on for a minute, just to tell us maybe a little bit more about you and your background and how you came to know all of the answers to our questions so deeply. Yeah, I'm happy to stick around. Yeah, so my background is I was from a construction family. I built houses with my dad when I was a kid. I grew up crawling under houses and digging ditches. And when I was a young man, I did a lot of carpentry and plumbing and things from my dad's business. And my dad actually got injured in a car accident when I was 15. And he had a small enough company that he couldn't be a cost to his business.  So he ended up having to go from construction and his buddy had sold him a disability insurance policy. And that disability insurance policy kept us from losing our home and my dad went into the insurance business. And so my dad did a lot of contractor work and farms and things like that. We were from a very rural area. When I got into the business after college, my dad was like, you know, this is way better business than contracting business. So I don't have to crawl under any houses or get bit by spiders. And I'm really not, I'm about not getting bit by a spider.  So anyway, I got into the insurance business right out of college and started doing it. And in my, I started working with financial advisors specifically because I tend to build spreadsheets on how things work and they tend to like spreadsheets. And then I did some work for financial planner association and Chris Remedios has always been like really big on volunteering her time, like a lot of the advisors. I think there's so many of them that are just wonderful people in addition to being successful advisors, they always want to help them. And so it got me involved in doing a lot of claims. I met a financial, my introduction to the FDA was that it's this, this financial advisor had her house burned down and I ended up getting involved in the claim because the carry wasn't treating her very nicely and her me and her attorney helped her to get through that claim. And so we started doing a lot of claim volunteer work. And so a lot of my claims experience just comes from volunteering. I mean, I have a lot of claims that we've done in my agency over the years but I probably have more claims experience than most people simply because when you volunteer to do something and you do it enough, you get good at it, right? Like, hey, I've heard that before, you know? So anyway, and you learn, and I speak that language, right? I've been doing this now since I was a young man. I'm in my fifties, I'm 54 and I've been doing it since I was 25. So, you know, you get some experience but that's where all this comes from. And this, all these slides are based on coverage claims that we've seen or things that we've happened. Everything that I teach comes from experience that we were talking about. So this house was an actual client when I talked about this at the very beginning. This was an actual client that was just underinsured and had all these problems. And so we just built a spreadsheet and said, here's what you've got, right? So I like the method of building a spreadsheet because it will organize the system. Yeah, this is cool to see it on the side-by-side and financial planner here. I do appreciate a good spreadsheet. So appreciate that. We all love them. I mean, who knew? I was just, I was a contractor guy looking for a place to build a spreadsheet and here I found it. Perfect, well, we are very grateful to have had your time and expertise this morning. And the library will be sending out a recording to the session so that I know I'm gonna go through and listen to it again because it's good stuff to know and it really covers a lot of risk and that we all take on in our lives, whether or not we want to. So thanks again so much for your time. Thank you, Karin. This is always fun. I'll always do FPA stuff. Just let me know when and I'll be there again. So thanks. Awesome, thank you. All right, bye. Bye. Everyone else, thanks so much for coming. And another plug we have our speakers going on for the rest of the day. Being a smart investor is getting started right now. And then we have a session on property 19 which is the tax prop 19 which is tax changes for property taxes. We have a tax update with Larry Pahn after that at one o'clock. We have a session at 215 about debt and how to get out of it. The most efficient way you can. At three o'clock, we're talking about college savings. And at 345, we have sort of an end of the year financial moves checklist, things to think about as we approach new years. Thanks so much for coming today.


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