I wanted to bring up this document which you've entered into evidence, Jesse, DEI, in curriculum, model principles and practices. This was put out by the California community colleges and really lays out point by point what it is they expect to see in the classroom. Could you, before we dive into the documents, details, could you tell us what is the import of this? Well, this is one of several documents that the state community college system issued to inform the individual districts and colleges how to apply the new DEI rules. And this document in particular is, this is what we want to see when you are applying DEI in the classroom. This is how you incorporate it into your curriculum. These are the kind of practices you should use and not use or the types of language you should use and not use to be compliant with the state's definition of DEI. So, this will be a sort of reference for, you know, if this system is implemented where professors are evaluated, where this is incorporated into their evaluations, be like, this is the reference document. Are you aligning with what is laid out here? It's one of several sources that they're going to be referencing. It's correct? Yes. And looking inside of it, this is the kind of big picture vision they lay out that you develop and implement a pedagogy or curriculum that promotes a race-conscious and intersectional lens and equip students to engage with the world as scholars and citizens. Develops and implements a pedagogy that fosters an anti-racist and inclusive environment for minoritized students, demonstrates an ability to teach culturally affirming pedagogy. What is your reaction to that, Bill, as someone who would be affected by these new standards? Well, again, it's this relative terminology is kind of the way I look at it. Anti-racism, anti-racist intersectionality. Race-conscious? Yeah, you ask five different people and they're going to have five different definitions. And I don't know how to work in the anti-racist ideology to Boyle's law.  But it really becomes, I think, it's preposterous because the periodic table of the elements is what I'm charged with teaching students about and explaining how that was constructed, et cetera, et cetera, and how it works. And I think it's relative in the way they're going to evaluate me and it's not objective. And I have real concerns about my future in academia as do the other people who have been joined in the lawsuit as well. Because administrators, you know, sometimes, you know, I would say I'm trying to figure out the most polite way to say this. They can bear grudges. And so I think that evaluation language can be interpreted so many different ways. Well, you're not going far enough. Yeah, I recognize that you did X, Y, and Z, but you didn't go far enough. You could have went further. So that's kind of how this, I think, and I'm anticipating this working. I just want to add that there's a certain hilarity.  A lot of these DEI consulting firms make bank. And there's a little bit of absurdity to these very highly paid professionals being the sort of enforcers of this, you know, and implementing a very top down thing, which I would imagine many students at California Community Colleges do not come from the most, you know, economically privileged backgrounds in the entire world and or are working really hard to put themselves through school and to attempt to, you know, work their way up in the world. And so I just think that there's also something kind of fascinating about that of like, who are the people doing the enforcement of this? If they actually care about, you know, lifting the people who are the absolute most oppressed, there's a certain absurdity to the fact that many of them I think are probably paid an awful lot of money very handsomely to do this type of thing. So I want to add to that there's a there's a bit of a tempest happening in the not the community college system, but the state college system. So in California, you have the UCs, University of California, you have the Cal State, and then you have the community college system. So in the Cal State right now, they are negotiating. And I think it's system wide with faculty unions. And administration is playing hardball, they did want to give minimal raise, but contrast that to administrators, whose raises have far outpaced faculty and inflation, so to speak. And you have you have administrators in the California State University system. So that would be, you know, places like Cal State LA, Cal State Fresno, Cal State Fullerton, etc.  And then you just kind of goes down from there. They get, they get housing allowances. There are people within the Cal State system who get a housing allowance and mileage, which is greater than what professors monthly pay is. And so I think you point out something that's really good that these administrators, this is where this is all coming from. And you have faculty, you know, that are definitely Marxist as well. But you have the administrators who are really pushing this, making tremendous amounts of money far more than they would ever make in the private sector. And I think you point out something that just is really remarkable. It's hypocrisy. It's, you know, there's a lot of different adjectives we could probably come up with to describe this. But yeah, it's it's exactly that. You have administrators making huge amounts of money compared to faculty.  I know one aspect of the lawsuit to is about vagueness, because if I were in this position, reading some of this would be really confusing. I wouldn't even quite understand what the actionable like instruction is, because of the way that the language is just the the the kind of flowery or, you know, abstract language, they did helpfully provide a glossary, which I've pulled up here. And one of the terms that I know caught Liz's interest is watering up. Could you share with us, Liz, what watering up is? And I mean, this is the problem. This is the problem with so much of this. Like, I just literally don't know what this means. I am a journalist. I spend all day writing words and parsing their meaning. And this is not super clear to me. I mean, read a little bit of it for our listening audience watering up is apparently, you know, instructional practices with the science of learning that we can apprentice students to be active agents in their own learning instead of watering them down with compliance oriented deficit views. This process requires students to build and braid together multiple neural, relational, and experiential processes to produce their own unique learning acceleration process. I'm sorry, this feels like if you fed chat GPT HR buzzwords. It's not clear to me how a professor is actually supposed to implement this or how this is a useful. I mean, the thing that I just keep coming back to you because ever since becoming a mom, I've been pretty interested in a lot of the stuff related to phonics education and the crisis related to how children have been taught how to read in many public schools in this country, which is obviously at a different level than the level that we're talking about. But I just keep coming back to this question of, like, wait a second at many schools across the country, there's this huge problem, which is that, like, there isn't enough instructional time or suitable enough instruction in the first place to get kids to the level that they need to be at. And then you also look at college classroom environments. And it's not clear to me why we ought to be trying to get instructors to be spending more time on these very vague wishy washy concepts versus actually ensuring that kids and young adults learn the things that they need to be learning. They need to learn how to read or like what you're talking about, they need to be figuring out how to, the basics of dosage. One of the things that I just keep coming back to is when we orient ourselves more toward these things, are we setting people up to fail because we're actually, I mean, it comes at a cost. And what's the cost actually useful instructional time? Do you have thoughts on that, Bill? That's exactly right. It takes away. We have a limited amount of time and we have a tremendous amount of material that we have to go over and skills that they have to learn. And I think what you said too at the beginning was right that it is, it's, there's multiple definitions of these words. This administrator or this advocate or I want to say, you know, I think advocate may be whether grifter may be a good word. They have a definition of this word and somebody else has a different definition of the word. Well, how am I going to be objectively evaluated in my faculty evaluation if I've got these multiple definitions of the word that I'm looking at? Who's do I go with? Yeah, it also to me, it strikes me as a little insulting to people's time. I recall, I came from a more privileged background, but I still, you know, was working as I made my way through college and my time was really scarce. And if I had been forced to, in my view, waste more time on these types of things versus actually getting useful instruction, that would have been really frustrating to me. I would imagine most community college students in the California system feel much the same way. And in a sense, this is very disrespectful to people who might be working a few jobs to pay their way through college to then force them to spend time on things that are perhaps pretty unrelated to them actually securing the type of success that they hope to get later on. Zach, could you also take us to the collectivism, individualism definitions? Yeah, this is the one that jumped out to me. Their definitions from the glossary of collectivism was an individual sense of connection to and responsibility for members of their group community. Sounds very warm and fuzzy. Individualism, the valuing of the individual over the value of groups or society as a whole. So I mean, these are both incredibly biased definitions, clearly written by someone more sympathetic to collectivism. And look, you can be a collectivist. I think history would show it's the wrong way to think about human nature, but using the state to impose that kind of orthodoxy on academics, people who are supposed to be intellectuals are free thinkers is incredibly disturbing to me and fire as the foundation for individual rights and expression. I've got to assume there's some people that are made uncomfortable by this as well, Jesse. What is just your reaction as someone who is trying to stand up for individual rights to that seeing that sort of thing being imposed? Well, I would say as a defender of individual rights, that also includes defending the individual rights of people who want to promote collectivism, as well as individualism. So I think we would object to compelling anyone to embrace any particular point of view, whether that be individualism or collectivism. And in both cases, we would defend the person whose individual rights were being violated. But yes, as an organization, we exist to specifically to defend the rights of individuals. I think this is the really delightful thing that fire does. I just appreciate it. I mean, I think we'll talk about it in a little bit in a few minutes here. But we really are so kind of delighted by the fact that we can criticize so much of this and the compelled speech here and fire is doing such a good job of representing these California professors. But then you also look at some of the things happening in Florida related to the Stop Woke Act and the sort of Chris Rufo one man mission to create a different sort of viewpoint conformity at many schools in that state. And I really appreciate and I think we as as libertarians at reason also kind of straddle that very, very tight. We walk that tight rope of like, no, don't mandate that thing over there. But then also even the thing that I like, you shouldn't be mandating any sort of viewpoint conformity in that realm either. It's really, really important that individuals have full ability to legitimately go out into the world and decide what they believe and authentically hold and articulate those beliefs for themselves as opposed to having any institution impose things top down. And I mean, without this, we don't have true academic freedom. We don't have the ability for people to really engage in robust discussion and come to, you know, take their half truths and, and, you know, have them blossom in like a very JS mill type way. Thank you so much for watching our conversation with Jesse Appleby of Fire and Professor Bill Blinken. To watch another clip, go here. To watch the full conversation, go here.


When installing any door window sensor, first locate the raised guides on one side of the sensor which will need to match up to the raised arrow on the magnet when installed. The gap between the raised markings on the sensor and the raised arrow on the magnet should be less than half an inch. Ideally, the sensor should be placed on the fixed frame of the door and the magnet should be installed on the moving door. If this is not possible due to the size of the frame, it is most important to mount the sensor flush on the surface. Best practice is to leave a minimum of a fourth an inch gap between the magnet or sensor on the door and the edge of the door frame. Often doors are hung out of square or the vinyl, wood, or metal parts can swell due to weather conditions. Leaving a space will ensure that the magnet does not contact any part of the frame when opening the door, which could cause the magnet or sensor to be knocked off. Make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page and click the Show More tab underneath the video where you can view valuable links pertaining to this product, similar how-to videos, and our low-cost, no-contract alarm monitoring services.


special board meeting to order for March 29, 2021. Currently with the board, we've got John Schoen, David Sawyer, his flow on, I don't see her on his. She was, yeah. Okay, we've got flow and myself. Any additions or changes to the agenda that we're aware of? None. Okay. I do have a change. Okay. Okay. I want to remove the approval of license permits and vouchers. I don't have any payables for you. Right. Can we remove liquor licenses as well? Yeah. Vince, Vince use the regular meeting agenda that we kind of have formatted. We can remove liquor licenses, license permits, vouchers, and we can also probably remove minutes. Yeah. Okay. Any public comment? All right, hearing none. We have first on the agenda, we'll remove the treasurer's report as well, right, Diane? Yeah, yep, might just as well. Yep, yep. So the community rating system update, here we go. So the planning commission met Saturday morning and they approved the draft language change to add a foot of free board for utilities. And they sent that through Vince to the select board. And Vince has scheduled a meeting for the select board of public hearing on April 12th. I think it's at 7 p.m., but it's just a reminder to the select board that you will be having a hearing on that on April 12th. Anything else on it? No, it was pretty. Were we having this special meeting to meet the warning so we could have that public hearing? Was that the reason? That's correct, yep. So to get the credit for the CRS to get us from a class nine to a class eight. All right. Anything else on the board? All right. So next on the agenda, we have the new town center discussion. Yes, I believe Vince sent around to the select board the conditions that the agency staff placed on the town of Berlin's new town center application. And some of those conditions have impacts not only on the town of Berlin, but also the partners that we have. Many of the partners are here tonight. And Simon from the mall, Jim Alvarez from CBNC, Julie Curtin from Down Street Housing. There's probably Jason's here to Lazar as well. So I think that what the planning commission would like to do is go over those conditions, make the select board aware of impact to that. Once we get through these conditions, if the partners would like to talk and address any items, we'd ask the partners here to weigh in on it. So there's for eight conditions, one of the conditions had numerous parts. But the first three conditions deal with the boundaries of the new town center. You may recall that we plan for really probably since the inception of this to include parcel owned by CBNC south of Fisher Road and a good portion of their medical campus north of Fisher Road. The state is recommended, the staff is recommending to the downtown board that the properties controlled owned and controlled by CBNC be removed from our designated area. And what that does, how that impacts the town of Berlin. And again, we'll let CBNC talk about how that impacts them. But you may recall one of the main features of getting a designation is the town's ability to seek a tax increment financing district which allows you to the town in effect to pay for much some of the development that's anticipated in the new town center. An example of this is that if the senior housing project that's going up now would have been part of the TIP district, it has an estimated value of $12 million. If it was in the TIP district, the town of Berlin would likely see about $200,000 of that revenue to go towards projects. $200,000 in revenues pays for about $5 million of infrastructure improvement. So the town losing the capacity to have as robust the TIP district has financial impacts on the town. So with quick question, with central Vermont not paying property taxes on a lot of the properties, obviously, does that doesn't impact the TIP district? If they would build, and if you looked at the concept design, they had a medical building which would probably be exempt for property taxes, but they also had a cluster of income producing properties that would be for the TIP, that's correct. Did you send the board or Vince a copy of the new boundaries? I know Vince had it, I didn't personally send it to the board. Brandy, can you pull that up on the screen? I'm gonna ask Brandy to pull that up. I can, just give me one moment. Hey, Trace. And it also eliminated the coals parcel as well. That's the edge of the mall, basically. On the, and the car locks. So it should be up on the screen now. It is, yes. You know, it really impacts the, I think the functionality of the new town centers we envision that it adversely impacts the town green. That was there, we lost you there, Brandy. I'm sorry, I was gonna try to pull up the site, the full site plan so you could see. Yeah, so this line bisects the development that was planned down there. So it interferes with the street layout and such as well. So it is a bit of a technical problem, that line. So functionally, I mean, it does interfere with those other properties. I'm just curious, I mean, we can still design and lay out as we'd like over there potentially, right? With the good partnership. I'm just curious overall, I mean, we're gonna design around the new town center, but you can also design around future development, like over on the central Vermont property or over on Lambert's property, right? Part of the design that we do is gonna be planning for development in those surrounding areas, correct? The Lamberton property was discounted just because of the wetlands issue. Right, I understand why it's not, we've already established why it wasn't in the town center, but you understand what I'm saying, I suppose. Any development on right now under designation TIF, the only properties that would be eligible for a TIF under the designation would be in this orange shaded area. So that, but didn't you just, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't you just say that the elderly, the assisted living wasn't in that, but it falls right to this, in this shaded area? It's not in it, but it was an example of what it could have brought. Well, it's not in it, because we don't have the TIF district. We have to get the designation first. Okay, but it's being built prior to the TIF. Right, it will not be eligible. So looking at that shaded area, if you're coming in from the 802 property, that line is about where that entrance is down in that lower end, correct? Yeah, this is the access road that goes behind the mall is right here. Yeah, okay, that's what I thought. Yep, and then this is the, it comes across here, straight at the edge of the parking lot, and then the line between the mall and the hospital properties. And so the challenge that the town would face here is that the new town center plan envisioned a continuous street network extending into this property, which theoretically would, and the PATH network as well and sidewalks. Some of those elements would be to some extent supported through municipal funding and or the property owner may want to turn them over to the town. And if they're not in the TIF generating, revenue generating portion, then you're looking at facilities that you're not generating revenue off of to offset the costs of. So that's the challenge from the town's perspective. How much did they actually cut out of the original thing? Did that incorporate the 802 property and armory in that whole area? Not the armory. Yes, let me pull up the full map. Actually, I think that up here, it might be up here. I mean, I think I've seen it before, oh, a year or so ago when I moved that with you guys. I remember it was quite, it seemed like it was quite bigger than what I know. Yep. I guess, oh, okay, I see. Yeah. So the line that they're proposing basically cuts it in half. So it comes through here and then comes down here. So it's only the Southern half. What's the reasoning behind that? Cutting that down like that? They had a concern that Fisher Road was not as pedestrian friendly as requirements, as required by the Newtown Center. You may recall that before your time date, but the select board applied for a VTrans grant to study Fisher Road, and particularly that pedestrian crossing at Berlin Mall Road and Fisher Road. And just, it was either Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, we found out that we were awarded that grant to do that study, but that was after the fact of the staff recommending that the CVMC campus north of Fisher Road be taken out. So they want that road to be more pedestrian friendly. I personally think it can be done, but we have to do the study and look at all the things that go into making it more friendly. And they also are looking for the hospital's master plan to be complete and want to be able to see that presented here and will then do a similar review of which they did not do of the zoning standards to see if they meet. And based on their feedback to some of the zoning pieces, I think that may require further negotiations down the road between trying to balance what the state will want and what the hospital needs. Yeah, we had some very extensive talks with the hospital. They have specialty needs with medical campus with respect to roads, access of their clients to their buildings, parking, and a lot of time went into developing those regulations and those negotiations, which we eventually arrived at and then how baked into our zoning regulations that were adopted in January. But again, the staff, they didn't even review those regulations because they redefined that line taking the CBMC properties out of the new town center. Well, but I do think that they viewed the zoning in that area as not compliant with the town center, what we had done, right? I mean, isn't that accurate? They didn't provide a detailed review of it, but that is my sense as well. So to go forward, let's just, what is, so we don't get hung up on this, see the end, to go forward, what are the other boundary requirements, number one and number two, is it possible that in throughout the process to bring that into the TIF district in the future if these requirements are met or made to state standards? With respect to bringing it in the future, you, I spoke to the new town center coordinator for city of South Burlington today. And she advised me that once you set a, the boundaries of a TIF district, you can not expand it. So if we wanted the TIF district to look as it is portrayed here on the map, it would probably delay us a couple of years of applying for that TIF district, or you could begin applying sooner than that, but you lose half of the potential value of your TIF district. So that's a, go ahead. Can you just back up and explain that the idea is that we would be adding back the hospital? I don't think we've talked about that. Yes, I mean the idea would be we'd add back the hospital. To the new town center. You can expand the new town center area. And so they've provided some guidance on what they would want us, what we would have to do to expand first south of Fisher Road and get, so Payne-Turk Pike would be the, I mean, Fisher Road would be the boundary. And then beyond that, the medical campus. Right, and then it would just be excluded from the TIF district. That's all, right? Or we'd have to wait to apply. What was the hospital's reaction? Jim Alvarez is on the call. Yeah, I guess for us, the real issue is the 12 acre parcel. You know, we've stayed in determined not to develop it because there's just too many constraints on it. But in partnership with the town square, then it has some possibilities. We probably would not develop it ourselves. We'd probably sell it to a developer and then lease back part of it. And so I think that's probably the most, you know, interesting part of this whole thing is that that parcel on its own just doesn't have the access that we need. So it really needs to be looked at as part of the town square to ever be a functional, developable parcel. So, you know, right now we just use it as a utility yard, you know, so it holds our gas storage and some conics boxes. But we have no intention of developing it because when we studied it, there was no access from Fisher Road that would make it feasible to build anything there. So it really needs to be connected back to the town square to be a parcel that could be used. Randy, can you just outline that, their lot? This, yes. He's here. So how did they arbitrarily come up with this, I mean, this line that they, as a new town center, seeing as that you guys have done all your work or the planning commission has done their work, how did they eliminate this bigger picture and just randomly come up with this boundary? How was that arrived at? You'd have to ask them. So there's really no good answer of why they did what they did, I guess. I think in their minds, I think in their minds eye, there was, but I can tell you when these conditions came out, we had no inkling that the removal of the CBMC properties were even being thought about. Okay. Well, I guess, okay. Well, I guess we need to hear some more of the other conditions. We've got the boundaries, but we'll find out what the other troubling issues are, I guess. So, Brandy, you wanna pull up those conditions again? Okay. Which, let me see. We're at number four now, four. I'll put it back on, yep. This is Eileen from CBMC. I just wanted to add that one of the other complicating factors for us as we move into the master planning process is, you know, we would have to make a decision to either consider that parcel in our master planning or not based on a hope or a dream that it would then be included in the town center. That they would then accept it for inclusion. So that's gonna be, that would be a difficult thing for us to navigate when we really get to the point of our master plan, whether or not to take that risk, adding that to the plan. Thank you, Eileen. So, Brandy, you wanna walk through the number four here? So, condition four has eight, I think, some parts. And these all relate to the zoning. The first three, A, B, and C, relate to the C street standards and the standards for on-street parking. The requirement would be to eliminate the C street classification from within the town center. Right now, that's an allowed street type. It has a certain set of dimensional standards that go along with it. And each end of the Berlin Mall road is classified that way and potentially new streets could be classified as C streets if that worked within the overall plan. Then the A and B streets are in the core area. So in front of the mall and in that new block area. And those are of a much more urban, what I would sort of classify as an urban built form. So they're meant to encourage more sort of commercial block buildings or those larger residential buildings that are shown in the plan. And they're set up with the dimensional standards to produce that form of development. So the state is requesting that all streets in the new town center area be essentially A or B streets. The P streets is that pedestrian street option, which is sort of like a church street type option that would be just not be vehicular. So basically A or B streets, which dictates the types of buildings that you could build in the new town center. They're going to be larger buildings. Slightly smaller detached buildings aren't going to be possible to build. So the last one then also deals with the on street parking. So C deals with on street parking. They are going to require that you mandate on street parking on A and B streets. So anytime a street is built or is reconstructed it would have to include on street parking. And there's a few places on the site plan where that doesn't really make a lot of sense because in many ways that circulation is around a big parking lot. And so if you're putting in on street parking you're basically taking parking spaces out of the parking lot in order to make room to put parking lanes on the street. So it's just a shifting and a shuffling around of parking. And it would probably reduce overall parking. But in any event, that's the requirements for A, B and C. D, E and F, D relates to curbing and stormwater. Treatment, we think that the regulations already do this. They don't. So it's a matter of trying to figure out what it is that they think it needs to say that it doesn't say it's not obvious to me what that is. And E and F deal with development envelopes and also here the same thing is true. They're trying to get to the point where you're not where they're ensuring that all buildings are fronting on a street and there's not any rear buildings. They've been pretty distressed about the state reviewers about both the hospital and mall being kind of campus type developments. So multiple buildings on the lot whereas they're really looking for sort of a lot with building on it, each one, one to one relationship. And so these are some language around that. We're not even completely sure what it would take in the regulations to change wise to meet these rules because we don't really understand how they've come up with these or how they have interpreted the rules to think that it is possible to build a building that isn't on a street. But in any event, that's D, E and F. G relates to adding a little bit more streets to your official map that you adopted. This is doable. It's not going to really be that meaningful because in reality, all it does is give you in the town the right to buy that right of way should the developer wanna build on it. And you have to do that really fast. So it's actually not really that effective. So putting that on isn't a problem. So it's really A through F that are issues. You mentioned that it might be difficult to navigate some of these regulations because we're not really sure what they're asking. So how could we possibly accept these new conditions given that? I'm just curious. I think that that is a challenge. We did meet with them on Friday in hopes of trying to get some clarification and maybe better understand what it is they're looking for and come up with ways to achieve that. That both worked for the town and got what they wanted at the end of it. They were not interested in having that conversation with us. And so it's our understanding at a take it or leave it with what's presented here. Right, so when you said some of these conditions, I guess I'm confused. You weren't really sure what they were saying or asking. They'd give us further clarification down the road. That would be have to be the hope, Justin. I mean, have we agreed to it that that's what would happen? Yes. And basically what Brandy's saying is her under, the way she interprets the regulations, these requirements already exist, but they somehow are reading it differently. So we'd have to just clarify, if there's specific language they want in there or if they're just misunderstanding something. But like she said, they weren't willing to discuss the conditions on Friday. Okay. In a post COVID world where we could all sit in a room and discuss this, do I think a more common ground could be found? I would hope so. But again, you don't know, right? You don't know at the end of the day. Right. What other conditions are we facing? So five and six are straightforward and are not issues. They are what we would anticipate, the types of conditions that would be typical on these applications. So five and six are non-problematic. Seven and eight, they've attempted to write conditions. Can you go over five and six foresters so we understand it? Okay, five is just the stuff that you're going to need to do at your four year review. So the Newtown Center applications get, they're good for eight years. If you get approval and every four years at a minimum there's a check-in, there's a midway check-in. And so they were requesting that you do an update as to basically where you are on all the various elements. So an update on the capital improvement program, an update on development review, what's occurred, what you've permitted, et cetera, within the area. An update in your case on how you're progressing on the municipal facility requirement. So that's all standard and normal to be expected. And then six, I mean, this is we sort of understand that this is sort of a de facto statement of fact. If the mall has to seek an active 50 permit amendment, if that fails to happen or if there are conditions on their permit that affect the development of the Newtown Center as envisioned, you would have to go back and seek an amendment of the Newtown Center from the board. We expected language along those lines. So seven and eight, they attempt to tie the property owner's hands within the Newtown Center and prevent them from using the designation as a basis for trying to get changes to their existing permits. So basically aimed at the mall and their need to go in and get a permit amendment to remove some of the no-build areas from their original 1985 approval. These two conditions, while their conditions placed on the town, they really are actually an attempt to place conditions on the property owners within the Newtown Center. I think they're a dubious legal validity, but they're there. Okay, so I mean, what does the board think of it? I mean, how's the mall feel when we get some input on these areas and how it'll impact them as well? Well, we've heard from the Jim Alvarez in the hospital. We also have the folks here from Downstreet Housing because that's the project, which is really ready to go. So I thought, yeah, Julie's here. Do you wanna talk about this from a respected and Nicola's here? Or do you wanna talk about these conditions and impact on your project? And you're on mute, Julie. Thank you for that catch of the mute. And yeah, thanks Tom for inviting us to speak about our project. So we have our Fox Run project. It's a 30 unit residential project that's been under development for several years now. And we're on the threshold of getting the funding that we would need in order to build the project, applications in to Vermont Housing Finance Agency for Tax Credits and Vermont Housing and Conservation Board. And our funding applications are understanding that the funders are looking to the new town center designation to happen before we get funding. So, and we see the project as part of the new town center. So we very much want the designation. We're building housing, this will be affordable housing, a mix of family and individual households. But really we feel strongly that the project is putting housing where people can walk to jobs, can walk to services. They're going to be living in the place that they go to school, they're close to the school. And so, we really see our project as a component of the new town center. So we're at a critical moment where we're really wanting to see the designation. And we think we're also, the region really needs the housing. So we're hoping it'll move forward. Would this project not go through if we didn't get the designation of new town center? That is our understanding where all things are, things are so in flux with funding for housing now. And we don't know what, maybe there are new sources that could come along and that it would be different. But I think our funders really prioritize development in village centers, in downtown areas, in place where people can walk to work and to services. And because we're housing very low and moderate income, people who may not have a car or easy access to getting around. So the funding sources prioritize in there, sort of their competitive process being in village downtown centers. And so they're looking at the new town center as sort of a way of confirming that the Foxtron project will be in that type of development, that type of area. So I'm hearing without the designation, this project probably will not go forward. It is serious risk of that. Okay. John, you're on mute. Primarily because of funds, Julie? Yes. So in the fiscal year 22 budget with all the stimulus money or ARPA money, is there money in there for housing that can potentially be used instead? It's to be determined. We have not heard of capital funding in the ARPA money yet, but I think all of that is still being worked out. Most of the funds that have been announced that I'm aware of so far that are for housing are for rental assistance, so helping people pay for housing. So that is an unknown for us at the moment. Okay. I was on a call today with Josh and Chris Cochran. There was a webinar being hosted by Chamber of Commerce and they were talking about these funds, John. And it's really what Julie said, there's monies for rent, but the anticipation would be that there will be capital monies coming available, but they also stressed that high priority for that will be in these designated areas, either the downtowns or village centers or they didn't say specifically new town centers, but that's also one of them. I assumed because of the short timeframe on the money that shovel ready projects would be more towards the front of the list. Yeah, I think that's probably, I know with some of the, with the first round, the CARES Act and the CRF funds, that was absolutely the case. There's still some of those funds that are being allocated for projects that could be completed and occupied by the end of 2021, even in some cases. But the RF funds, again, that's another one, I'm not sure. I see Matt Moore joined here. Matt, do you want, we're talking about your project here. Do you wanna add to it? It's not my project, it's Downstreet's project that we're working on with them. Nope, sorry for being late. I had a family dinner to attend to, so I'll just follow along. Thank you. Any other questions of Jolie and her team? Looks like Ken has a question. I just like to clarify in my mind, are you saying that you, that the designation is important to you, you feel it's critical to your funding? And are you saying that you, that is why you would suggest going along with this project, regardless of what the conditions are? Well, the current, let me put it this way, the current questions as proposed. Is that what you're at your position? We'd like to see the town go forward with the, with the designation, with the conditions, understanding as I've, you know, as, I think Tom and Brandy have explained that that's this, that, you know, the status, said that to move forward, it's accepting the conditions. May I ask Jolie or Matt a question? Would be helpful to know what your timeframe is for applying for a municipal permit. How quickly do you think you could do that? Well, I spoke with Tom a bit about that today and also with Ken. And we think planning for the May, the DRB for sketch plan is realistic, whether it's the fourth or the 18th, we're not sure yet. We wanted to try to get in in April, but that's too quick to put things together. So May is what we're targeting now. So the reason I'm asking that is that there is a window between now and when the town would need to go ahead and adopt new zoning changes, where if applicants come in, they're still under the zoning that's in place now, it's gonna take several months before the town would be ready to move forward with doing further revisions to the zoning and running back through that adoption process. So that is something that the partners in the town could work on and negotiate with a little bit and get that timeline to work best for all involved. That's an interesting point. I think the question then is, does an application for sketch plan, does that lock us in?  I haven't looked at the application contents, but I had been a long time, but I'm sure they're typical for most communities. So we're thinking May, that's our schedule that I think will work well for us for a number of reasons. And if it happens to be advantageous for that as well, then perhaps we do that. Ken and Jason, this is where we need to coordinate and we'd like to put two applications in, separate applications for two projects, but have them reviewed concurrently because we'll share an internal driveway and we're both gonna be involved to some extent in what happens with the reconstruction of the mall access room. Yeah, and that makes sense. So under Vermont law, once you've submitted a complete application, that as long as you stay within the timeline and schedule of the rules, even if the rules change while you're in that process, you continue to be regulated under the rules that were in place when you started. Matt, I know I'm hitting your team cold here, but you've done a redesign. I don't know if you're able to share any of that with a share screen and have people take a look at what you're thinking. Happy to do that. It'll take me a couple of seconds to call it up, but we haven't even given this a full internal review, which we're gonna do this week. Excited to see it, I was gonna say. Nicola, you've seen it. Yeah. And we've shared this with Ken and Jason as well. A few clicks away here. Folks know that we had to, unfortunately make a tough decision to change from a mixed use building with a childcare to solely a residential building. But we were able to keep the same unit numbers, so we'll still have 30 units. Okay, I can't, I'm not finding right away the civil site plan. Sorry, that's what I'm working with here. But what I do have here is the architectural site plan, which is pretty darn close in terms of concepts. This is a good, okay, share screen. I'm out of necessary eye of the civil site plans. Oh, do you have it handy? Yeah. Okay, thank you. Yeah, let's do that if you've got it. Could I have permission to share a screen? Yes, you do. There we go. This is good because it's overlaid on the Newtown Center plan. Can everyone see this okay? Yeah. Yes. So yeah, we just, this shows, this is just our civil site plan. So we're just really showing right now our building and parking, you can see this road. It'll go down, it'll go into our parking lot and this also would be shared with the mall for that additional plot, the restaurant. Also staying outside of the wetland buffer and just dealing with some of that, those issues there as well. We do have community garden and green space on our site as well. And it's three, we're at three stories. Yep. And it is raised there, it's up to a higher level. So, yeah, we won't have stairs at this, we won't have an entrance right from that mall road to the, to the, to Walmart, just because that would actually mean we'd need like 20 stairs going up there. So we have a side entrance with parking at the side and then our main entrance will be around the back. Randy, with the requirements that this, I think, so the affordable housing has been giving a, been given a relief from the conditions of the state. If this was a non affordable housing project, there would be required to have an entrance on that. Well, the problem is that the state's condition says dimensional waivers. And actually as the zoning is written right now, I don't know that you can get out of having an entrance facing the mall road, which from a elevation point of view is clearly a challenge. Oh, really? That's interesting. So it might take, I'm just looking at this. You need to have an entrance facing a street. So the question is whether your drive where the parking is can be made to meet the street requirements and therefore an entrance off of that side would be meet the requirement to have an entrance facing the street. But that's actually in the design standards is not in the dimensional standards. We do have a side entrance. Nicola, can you move your cursor over there? Yes. It was already there, right? So that is a secondary entrance. And the, what we call the entry drive would be an internal street, private street. That design is not firm. We have to work that out with the mall and making that more of a street, i.e. angled or parallel parking, green strip, sidewalk, et cetera, is certainly in the cards. So. Thank you. You might want to look at that piece about the design standards component. Thank you, Matt. Ken, can Simon's here? You want to talk about the mall and... I can stop. I'll stop sharing now. Thank you, Nicola. Yeah, of course. Sure. Brandy, could you pull up the shared screen of the conceptual plan, the colored plan that shows? Not only... I'll do that. Yep. They'll take me just a second, but I'll get there. It also shows the overlay of the existing Berlin mall. Yep. It's good. Why don't you go ahead and start talking what you were and I'll pull it up. I'd rather... I'd rather open it. I'd rather wait. Oh, okay. I've got to find it here. There's 30 units. That's going to be in one building. What are they? One, two, and three bedroom units? Or what do they consist of? Matt or Nicole or Julie? The program is the majority are two bedrooms with, I think we have two three bedroom units now. One three bedroom, 16 two bedroom, and 11 11 are 13 one bedroom. I knew I should have waited and just let you answer. Yes, 13 one bedroom, 16 two bedroom, and one three bedroom. Like I said, it's down streets project. How many floors is this? Is it here? Three floors or three floors? That's good enough. That's good enough. Okay, so let me let me just say, this may be old news to many of you, but as you know, since we bought this mall over 10 years ago, we have considered ourselves as integral parts of this community. And we have tried to conduct ourselves with the utmost respect and concerns for the char trade area, and particularly the town of Berlin. You know, from the time, you know, from the early times from, you know, from the big art, little art sessions to giving community access to our hub space, to events in the parking lot, to events for charities, to bending over backwards to allow the hospital to use our vacant space for COVID testing to make it more convenient for central Vermont residents to get these urgent, urgent COVID shots. We have always been on the side of the community even when it's not necessary to our advantage. And this is one of them. Okay, regardless of how this turns out, I want you to know that we are totally in line and in unison with the town, and we'll defer to whatever the town wants to do with regard to this project, one way or the other. Now, how does this affect, how does this affect the mall? Naturally, most, if not all of the, most of the, except for additional lands for perhaps with the school property and the hospital property, most of this new town center development is on our land. Where it affects us most, we and Downstreet and Matt have really come to terms and worked together for quite a while, and it's been a great relationship. And we really treasure the, treasure the relationship that we've established. And this is literally a shovel ready project. And some of the things that I'm about to say could impact that shovel ready aspect of this property. So if you can look at this, you will see that the current configuration of the Berlin Mall Road, okay, which wraps around which is wraps around in that direction. I'm sure you're all familiar with it. And we all know that it's unfortunate that the Berlin Mall Road is in terrible shape. And it's our intention, along with the Fox Run people, the town, we've had numerous, numerous discussions with Tom about this. The Berlin Mall needs to be repaired. It needs to be repaired quickly in order for this to function or for this all to function well. And you will also see that this Berlin Mall Road is going to be, if the dream of the town comes to fruition, this more, the current Berlin Mall Road is going to be relocated, right? If you can see how that relocation will take place. And Tom is working diligently to make that happen sooner rather than later. So right now we have a situation where we have a deal in place with Fox Run with a few, requires a few tweaks. We have a deal in place that is ready to sign with the restaurant that everybody's going to, I'm sure that everybody's going to like. But what the conditions now dictate is that we would, in addition to merely repairing the road, which will become obsolete soon, we will have to widen the road to allow on-street parking in an area where no one is going to park because there's nothing, there's no reason to park between the restaurant, between the entrance to Route 62 and Walmart. There's going to be no reason to park on that road. That road, so that involves changing all the lighting, changing all the drainage, widening the road at a tremendous expense with no way to recoup the expense under the financial conditions that are already agreed upon. So what we would like to suggest that if the town is amenable to all the other conditions that are being imposed by the downtown board, we would like to suggest that they add, go back to the, they go back to the board and request a temporary relief for the obligation to change that road, the current road to meet their requirements. And when a temporary, you can negotiate what temporary means, whether it's at the four year look back or before the four year look back or whatever it is, but that would make, that would truly make this project something that could get started in the next few months. So I think that with that I'm happy to answer any questions, but I just want you to know if you agree to that, that'd be great. If you don't agree to it, we're still in total support of what you want to do. Kenny, from your perspective, what, if we decide not to move forward with this, what changes for the mall? I mean, what changes for the mall? I think if you decide to go, not go with it, we would, I think that, I think that Fox one would have to talk to talk, decide for themselves whether they want to go ahead with that. My assumption is from what I was told that they would not want to go ahead with that. And we would have the, we would have faced the decision of going ahead with the restaurant application and a revised master plan that would not include the new town center. Because the new town center would not be something that would be on the, you know, be on the drawing boards. We have adopted, we have adopted it as an effort to go along with the town to include the new town center concept plan, the total plan as a part of our master plan. But if that's not, if you decide not to go ahead with it, we would just have to revise that application. Right. So it's my understanding that we need a final decision to buy tomorrow morning. Is it a straight up yes or no to the stipulations? No negotiating. And, you know, the caveat or the way the email was written, it doesn't, there's not high hopes that we're going to get this designation anyways.  But I think if you ask, if you don't ask, you don't get.  Okay. I would agree with you there, Ian, but again, if we agree to the stipulations with, I mean, with this temporary relief on that one incident you're saying, and we do not get this designation as new town center, you're saying that Fox Run probably would not go with this plan? I'm not saying that you have to ask Fox Run with that about that. Oh, well, I thought you indicated that if it wasn't a new town center designation, they may not. Is there anybody here from Fox Run? Dave, Dave. That's a dad. Sorry, Tom. Go ahead, Julie. It just, yeah, the project I was speaking about is Fox Runs, the affordable housing development that Down Street and Ever North are working on. And then you had said earlier that if it didn't get the new town center designation, that you probably wouldn't get the funding to be able to proceed. That's our concern, yes. Okay. Karla, what are your thoughts on this? I just haven't heard you weigh in at all and I want to hear what you have to say. You may not want, no. So we've thought a lot about this, the planning commission, because we were pretty disappointed with the conditions. But my, the consensus, I mean, I spoke individually with the planning commission members. I didn't, we didn't have time for a meeting. And we all agree that we would like to see us accept the designation with the conditions because we feel that, you know, it's getting a foot in the door. It's getting, you know, we'll have to work hard to get the, you know, the conditions met so that we can, you know, it can be official, but we feel that that not accepting the conditions and not going forward now that it may not happen at all. And we are very concerned about losing, about possibly losing the Fox one project. So I think, and I'll let other members speak, but you know, my sense is, is that we, we just think that this opportunity may be the only opportunity to move forward. So there are not any, if I can put in postponing in any way, shape or form until we can see about the, maybe the section on the mall side of Fisher Road for CBMC or any of that that you can see. I mean, cause I would expand the TIF district potentially, which would allow for additional revenue to the town. But again, it's two or three years and I know there's a concern about timeframe. I think there's one TIF district currently available maybe left in the state. Is that accurate? By county. County. By county, sorry. It's true. This is not the ideal situation, but I'm going to be brutally honest and say that I think this conditional approval has a lot to do with Fox run. And I'm afraid that if we don't move forward now and we don't have that Fox one project in the works, we may not ever get a designation.  Yeah, I would agree with, with Carla as well. I think the reason, I got the sense that the board would like to provide the designation with the conditions and mostly because of Fox run. They want to see the housing. And they, I think they want to see something happen in this area of the town, but I'm, there are some groups that are not necessarily against our application, but they're against the program. And I think there's a danger that the program could die in, you know, in a couple of years, in which case we would never get the designation and we'd lose the benefits. So I think I believe we can get our foot in it. I were also worried about losing momentum. The residents in the town are really anxious to see this go forward. And I know there's been some talk about what's happening and, you know, if we kind of come to a halt at this point, it's going to be very disappointing for a lot of people. Yeah, I mean, to me, I would pretty simple mind to try. It seems like we're basing this whole decision on just Fox run on what, you know, that's what it feels like in this probably not the case, but it feels like we're making this decision so we can either get these 30 housing units or not. It's more, to me, it's more about making the decision because that's the gateway to the designation. I believe that this, that the housing is the only reason why this is even happening. And so it's not just for Fox run. It's that my, I believe, I mean, I believe we have very good intentions with this town center and that we want, you know, listening to some of the board's concerns, you know, I wasn't concerned because I know what our intentions are, but they were looking at it differently. And I just think that if we can get the designation, get to work, that we can show them that, you know, we really are trying to do this right and we really are trying to meet the, you know, the intent of the statute and move forward in a way that they would approve that we can get the rest of the land in and that we, you know, the CVMC land in and that we can get to where we want to go. I just think it's going to take longer than I ever anticipated, but that's, maybe I'm being Polly Anish, I don't know, but I just, you know, we've worked hard and I'm afraid that if we stop now, it's just money that we threw out and we're never going to get the designation. So what is the impact if they, what is the impact? I mean, how does that, so if we said, okay, we accept these conditions and we go ahead and we get the new town center, is there any negative? I mean, it's all, are you saying it's all 100% positives that come out of it? Well, no, it's negative in that we have to go back and we have to, you know, we have to make some changes and we have to do studies before we can get the CVH, CVMCN, sorry, I'm telling my age, but again, I think it's doable. You know, I don't know, I think we can do it and the negative, I mean, really let's face it, if we don't do anything, so be it, we have the designation and we don't do anything, but if we don't have the designation, we can't do it. So that's my view. I would say that if you accept with the conditions you've got on the table, you'll, in a month or two months, you'll know the outcome of the funding decision. I don't think you're going to get the attention of DHCD to work on these conditions and these zoning changes very quickly anyway, at least not to the legislature's done. And they've also got, I think as Tom alluded to, a lot else going on and this is not a high priority for them. So I think you have some time before you have to actually meet those conditions. And so, you know, this is three, four months, something like that, five months. If the two projects that are in the pipeline now can get into the permitting process, they come in under the current zoning, ameliorating some of the concerns that are raised about the changes that are being requested, including the one that can raised about the street standards. So Ken, if you can get an application in before the rules change, the street, you wouldn't have to do that level of change to the street that you're worried about, which is a reasonable concern. I agree. Yeah. So, yeah. One potential fly in the ointment of that strategy, Brandy, and I commend you on your strategic thinking, is that we will need to go through Act 250. You will. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's sort of the next, that's the next hoop. And I would suspect that through the Act 250 process, the same groups, the NRC and the agency, the planning department at the state, and everybody that cares about this, is gonna want a road with parking and everything that's supposed to be in that road with the Newtown Center. I think that's a big risk that we would take and we would need to, I don't know how we would get, sign off from Act 250 agreement that they wouldn't make us do that before we apply. I mean, this is coming down to the road and can I totally hear what you're saying is basically, why are we gonna dump a million dollars into rebuilding a road in its current location when we're gonna have to relocate it when the municipal offices go in? Right, exactly right. So having said that and having been through Act 250 twice and getting approval from what I understand is record time for both Walmart and Coles, all I'm asking for is that if you have to get back to the board tomorrow that your designated representative simply ask the chairman of the board, Josh, okay? If they could accept a temporary relief from the obligation to make, to add on-street parking and whatever else is entailed to the existing borough and mall for a period of time, I think and explain the reason why because it's just gonna be obsolete. It's just as Matt said, you can spend a million dollars and then you're gonna change the location which means that if you accept the conditions as presented, you risk winning the war and losing the battle. So I don't think there's any harm in asking before the town makes its final, final, final decision with a telephone call to Josh to see if this is something that they can live with. Which makes 100% comment- I personally don't see any, I personally don't see any harm in asking. You know, I think probably at this point, I think everyone's made a lot of good points and I have no problem with going forward but I do think that, you know, we should ask, at least ask for that time waiver for the road. I agree, yeah. I think it makes sense personally. Let me just ask the question here. After this is all developed and these roads are put in and if they're requiring on-street parking and stuff, who is gonna be responsible for maintaining these roads and the plowing and all that for these roads here? Because if they're gonna require, well, I'm just saying, if they're gonna require on-street parking and it's in there, the town of Berlin doesn't do any plowing on, where there's on-street parking, like, you know, Montpellier and Barry and we're not equipped to do the snow removal at this point for those roads. That's the only reason I'm asking. Very good point. We raised that one already. Great question. What's the answer? They don't care. They just want the parking. It's your problem to figure out who's going to maintain it. So after it's developed, do the towns get, the town takes responsibility for these roads? That's something that would need to be negotiated, Dave. That's correct. I'm just... It would be with the property. Yeah. That's a great question. We've always been a good citizen and we will continue to be a good citizen. Yeah, no, you guys have been everything I've seen. And I would like to see this go forward myself personally. They just kind of weigh in everything out and, you know, just ask them the questions. Will figure it out. There's a lot of work to be done. A lot of work to be done, but we can figure that out. So, John, what was your thought? You were talking about making a phone call, obviously. If we had a deadline of Tuesday morning, is what we heard from the secretary, then what were you thinking? I think, you know, as part of the motion, we'd ask Tom to ask for that stipulation. In our conditional yes, or we're giving them a yes. We'd like to move forward, but we'd ask for a conditional waiver of a certain period of time that Ken and Tom can talk about. I don't know exactly what that is, but just, you know, bring it to Josh Hannaford, the chair of the board and say, you know, this just doesn't make sense to do it twice. Just give us some time here. All right. And what is, I guess, based on interactions, what we've had so far with them, how do you feel they'll respond? I think it's a common sense question, ask. It's a reasonable answer. Just because it's common sense, I guess I don't know that we always know what people are gonna say, so. I don't know. If you don't ask, you don't get. Right, I will speculate on what the chairman may say, but they can't hurt that ask. Right, okay. We're supportive of that ask, Ken. Good, I appreciate that, Matt, thank you. So you can, when you talk to Josh, tell him that we're supportive of that and that we agree that that makes the most of it. I'm gonna talk to him if you want me to be on the phone or available, I'll be happy to do that. We're asking, we're applying for funds to Josh, the same Josh for 250,000, probably 500,000 for improvements to the road. So maybe the argument to Josh is, do we really wanna put state money into a road only to go and tear it up again? Absolutely, absolutely. Matt, does Josh know about, sorry, does Josh know about that yet? Do you think? He will tomorrow. His staff knows. Yeah. He should know. I haven't communicated that with him. I don't know if Eileen has, but. I don't think Eileen has. I'm not sure that the board fully understands that this is a temporary request. Ken, by board, you mean the downtown board? I mean, downtown, yes, of course, I'm sorry. Downtown, thank you. Anything else? No, I'm just figuring out exactly what the motion should be. I think it could be pretty simple here. We've already discussed the Ken thing. So to be clear, that's not a fall on our sword, it's just an ask. So with that being said, I make the motion to move forward with approving the conditions set forth by the downtown, downtown committee. What is it, Carla? Downtown Development Committee. Sorry, downtown board. It's actually the staff recommendation and the board. Move approval of the downtown development board, staff recommendations and, yeah. I second that motion. All right, any further discussion? Well, don't you want a request that's a waiver, a temporary waiver? That's a given. Well, yeah, that's something we can do. That was my point about not falling on the sword. It doesn't have to be part of the motion. We're going to ask that in the morning, but we're giving it a yes approval either way. Right? If they say no, we're still giving the yes approval. So we left it, we left it out, but we'll ask. Any additional discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. It's a tough, tough situation. Yeah, this is not gone as we, as I expected, but let's just say that. Even so, it behooves us to move forward with the conditions and I'm glad we're going to make that ask. And I'm just so appreciative for all of your perseverance and all of the hard work you've all put into this. And I would like to really thank the partners. It's been a coalition, been together for a very long time. Absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. But yeah, the partners, so. And I, and I just want to put a plea out there to CVMC to we hope that you're hanging there with us. Yeah, because we're going to bring you back in. Absolutely. Yeah, we're we'll still, you know, as we do the master planning, assume that the with or without being in the town center, we'll still want the connection to it. So thank you. Thank you. Anything for round table? Anybody? All right. Do I get, can we get a motion to adjourn? I'm making a motion to adjourn. I second that. All in favor. Aye. Aye. All right, we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you very much everyone. Thanks everyone. Good night. Bye.


This is an emergency alert to all SCP Foundation employees. SCP-231-7 has been terminated and SCP-231-Dolph is active. SCP-231-Dolph is the seventh child of the Scarlet King, a pluripotent extra-universal entity hostile to humanity. SCP-231-Dolph is currently heading towards a major metropolitan area, presumably to terminate and or enslave the population. The entity is giant, with estimates at point four miles tall. It is also capable of thaumaturgy, magic, and bending reality. The emergence of SCP-231-Dolph has also led to several reality tears, through which demonic entities are emerging. Conventional weaponry is somewhat effective against the demonic entities. A anomalous weaponry may prove effective against SCP-231-Dolph. Global threat level is at black. Therefore, staff must lock down their facility and terminate any dangerous SCPs in containment. Mobile task forces should immediately report to their nearest site for information on their new deployments. SCP staff should be aware that the Foundation is cooperating with the Global Occult Coalition at this time. The Foundation is also reaching out to the Church of the Broken God, Horizon Initiative, Chaos Insurgency and Serpent's Hand. Dimensional evacuation options are being explored, such as that enigmatic forest between realms and the Wanderer's Library. Despite the exploration of these options, primary containment or termination of SCP-231-Dolph is still the priority of the Foundation. The SCP Foundation will soon disseminate messages to the public to maximize civilian safety at this time. Thank you for your attention and cooperation. Secure. Contain. Protect.


and welcome into the latest episode of Window into Arps. Today I'm so pleased to be joined by two of our administrators from the high school, Interim Principal Mickey Gromacki and Assistant Principal Talib Sadiq. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. And you know, I wondered if you could start by telling the community a bit about yourself and how you came to be an administrator at the high school level. Sure, I can start. So in 2008, I was in Philadelphia and my husband at the time had been offered a position at Amherst College. And so it was interesting because the role I was in as associate principal of a high school, I really loved and didn't want to leave, but we had to make a decision. And so our plan was to start to look for open administrative positions in western Massachusetts, and then we were going to decide whether or not I was going to stay in Philadelphia for a year until something opened up or whether or not I would be able to find something in 2008. And at that time, there was a middle school principal opening. And I remember calling and I had heard that Amherst High School was actually one of the better schools in western Mass because I had no familiarity with Massachusetts at that time, especially western Mass. And so I remember calling Kathy Mazer and saying, I see that you have a middle school opening. I'm not interested in that position, but I would like to give you my name and my information in case an assistant principal job at the high school were to open up. And about two weeks later, she called me and said, as it turns out, we are going to have an opening as an assistant principal at Amherst Regional High School. Why don't you come out and take a look and learn more about our district? And so I had done that in March. I met with Mark Jackson at the time, and then I became a formal candidate in, I think, June. And then I remember moving, getting married, and started the job, like, August 15th of that year. And the funny piece about that is the responsibilities with the position that I took were the exact responsibilities I had in Philadelphia. And so I was building the master schedule, looking at the budget, doing teacher evaluation. So I think my husband and I have always felt like it was just meant to be. It was a perfect fit. So that's how I ended up here. Great. Thank you. Tal. Yeah. I'm really from Amherst, and after high school, went to Wolverham Watson Academy for a year in the Army and a few other places, and when I decided to go back to college, went to Toyota Community College, and then started college late, but I did my undergrad at, finished it at Amherst, at UMass Amherst, excuse me. And then during that time, I had done an internship, a volunteer, part of a class I was in, a volunteer position with a nonprofit in the area that did some tutoring in apartment complexes in the area. And my conversations with the students we were tutoring, and I also met some people in the school counseling program at UMass really opened my eyes to my passion and desire to work with students. And I realized I wanted to work with them. I wasn't exactly sure how. First, guidance counselor sound great, and Barry Brooks was my guidance counselor. I have great memories of him and my favorite people. So then once I got into the counseling program and learning more about the school, and there was an administrative program at the university that I enrolled in, and then the district's administrative program, and then thinking more about serving the community and connecting with students kind of led me to where I am now, the opening in high school and interviewing in the job. Great, thank you. Mickey, Tal was able to share some of his background before you became an administrator. What were you involved in education before you became an assistant principal at high school in Pennsylvania? Yeah, so I was teaching, my first classroom was in 1993, and I was teaching in an urban setting, both social studies and English. And I was really content and kind of saw myself staying in the classroom a long time. But in 1999, so I had taught for about six years, I was in an alternative school at that time, and they had approached me. And I remember they had called me in, and I thought there was something wrong, and they had asked me if I would be the principal of the program. And I remember being 26 years old saying, principal, I'm not much older than the high school students that I'm teaching, but they convinced me to try it and take it on. It's interesting because much like our Summit Academy, the alternative school at that time that I was in was in a large suburban high school, and so there ended up being an opening a couple years later as assistant principal at that high school, which I accepted. And so you just think about how careers change and opportunities present themselves. So I don't know that I ever went in with the desire of being an administrator or principal, but it just kind of happened. And at that point I just, I really loved it, and I reached a point, I would say, 10 or 15 years ago where I couldn't imagine doing anything else. I think a common thread when I talk to administrators on this show and elsewhere is that, that wasn't necessarily the plan of any of the educational administrators we have is to become an administrator. People went in and there were a counselor, a teacher working with students, and people saw a promise, you know, others saw a promise in them and encouraged them to take those next steps in their career and kind of perhaps expand who they interact with and the sphere of influence they can have. So thank you, thanks for sharing that. So going back, narrowing down to the high school, Amherst Regional High School, what are some of the exciting things to talk about getting started? Sure, of course there's a lot of exciting things happening in the high school, a few of them. One, we have a restorative justice program. That's actually a class this year. It's been a desire of the district to really try to implement restorative justice into our everyday practices. It's great to repair harm between two students who have conflicts or students and teachers or even teachers and family members. So we have a class with great leadership opportunity for the students as well because they're learning how to be peer mediators and to run restorative circles with again their peers or other folks in the community. And actually as part of our kind of launching it this year when we started our first meeting with all the adults, we started out in check-in circles where a lot of restorative practice is done in circles and gave us a chance to kind of model the behavior we want the students to implement and adopt throughout the school. Of course there's a lot of other exciting things going on as well. We have a great advisory program that does some career training opportunities for the students also excuse me gives our student leaders some chances in the spring we're going to have more students in the leading different advisory activities. We're trying to use it also to expand PBIS positive behavior intervention supports the school with acknowledgments and we have a pretty cool QR code that students can scan and acknowledge in their student for doing for exemplifying some of our core values being supportive or inclusive or upstanding. So some of the things that are happening that we're proud of the high school. Sure I'm happy to add to that because I too am excited about the restorative justice work that's happening with the personnel associated with that. But I always feel so fortunate given the size of our school we have about 950 students and the budget challenges that we have I still think we have one of the most fantastic elective programs that rival many high schools even high schools that might have more resources than ours and we're still operating a full ceramics program we have broadcast journalism, we have dance we have music production once I start itemizing I know I'm going to forget many but our engineering offerings our STEM offerings I'm so proud to be in a school that still really values the arts and I'm hoping that even through some of the leadership changes that we continue to keep that at the center of what we value. Speaking of the arts would you mind sharing a little bit I know we're taping this in late December but there was a recent production by our theater department that I think was very noteworthy and I know it affected many both students but also not just faculty but community members who came in to see it would you mind sharing that with for people who maybe missed it just hearing a little bit about what Mr. Beck told and the students put on So I was fortunate enough to be able to go to the Laramie project and I'm not sure how familiar people are with it based on interviews from the tragedy that happened in Laramie Wisconsin with Matthew Shepard with Matthew Shepard back in 1998 and the way it was an interactive theater so it was done throughout the different school there were some scenes that took place in the library some in different classrooms some in the theater some in the dance studio and all it was based on the interview tapes from all the people in Laramie that they interviewed so having that time from going from one scene and kind of digesting all of the powerful information and seeing the students perform and the passion that they put into how organized it was seeing them perform and do their pieces and having to take a break and walk to another location it really I think the interview piece in the way he organized and directed it was a really meaningful experience and I'm not exactly expressing it to try to to paint this clear picture and as nice of a picture as it was there was a lot of props throughout the school based on again all on the interviews and actual events that happened there yeah we're so lucky to have John Bechdel and his immersive theater background and experience that he brings to just you know a show that's already powerful the way it was originally written but for John to take it and rewrite it and then have his team do what they do it I just again it's just a really fantastic component that he is willing to take what he has and share it with the students in Amherst High School and the community and it's really special thank you so you know being a high school administrator is not an easy job for sure you talked about the lack of breakfast and sometimes lunch right I think that's indicative of the role what are some of the challenges that you face and perhaps you know how do you manage those challenges or what are some of the benefits as well or what are the parts I'm happy to start so with 950 adolescents in the building you know you always hope that you could get to know all the students in your building and I find that it's a real challenge because I'd like to do that and finding ways you know to have that happen in the midst of what else has to happen in a day I know can be challenging and adolescence is also just a tough time for a lot of students and so I find it really challenging as I work with students who might make mistakes or make choices in that moment they're not necessarily able to see that it's an opportunity for growth and it can be a painful time I do think that we're surrounded by a really strong counseling team and also you know our whole educational team in the building I think recognizes that students are at that point in their life and they do a great job of really trying to hold and support students but it's challenging on a day basis to work with students when those situations occur and there's a lot that happens every day in this school so coming in with a plan and things on your calendar then as things come up throughout the day not being able to necessarily give as much attention to some of the things that you'd like to just because there's so much going on again having a great administrative team and counselors and deans and teachers in general it's it doesn't seem as overwhelming as it easily could if people didn't work so well together so staying on that theme what does a typical day look like for you or is that does that even exist for you all in high school I think that's you know it's like the blessing in the curse type of thing is great I'd like to not have I like not having typical days but sometimes you know it is nice to have just a kind of a day that you can do everything that's on the calendar you can make all the meetings again it's a lot of different things of course a lot of interactions with teachers and with students and their family members spending a lot of time with emails this way we communicate now so responding to so many different emails about a variety of different things going on in the school and the community these are individual families it's a lot of that a lot of emails a lot of meetings a lot of steps through the school yeah I would agree with what Talib said people sometimes ask what's the difference because I was in the building for 10 years as an assistant principal what's the difference between what it was like as an assistant principal and now the principal and I joke and I say about 400 emails a day is the main difference I can't believe the volume and yet recognizing it's so important to communicate with our stakeholders and I'd much rather get an email asking a question or trying to connect than not having that communication but I'm someone who like you I can't I don't like not responding in the moment and just reality happens and sometimes you just can't get to them for a day or two and I find that a huge challenge that I'm working through personally is to not be on email 24 hours a day because you really could be in this job absolutely what are some of your favorite moments from Mickey you've been at the high school for longer than Talib but what are some of the favorite moments you think back of your time at the high school so I always think of that Friday and June sitting on the stage and just having talked to students for so many years about that night and that night just hangs out there in their sophomore year and their junior year but when that night actually happens and to see the students and their caps and gowns and walk across the stage and I feel so fortunate that I'm one of the administrators like you will get to do to shake everyone's hand as they come through that's just that's really special and at the same time I mean while that's the culminating event I do think what's so nice is going into classrooms and seeing that student who's been working on that art project for weeks like finally have a finished product or see those bulletin boards that our art teachers you know Ben, Jeff or Hannah you know they create those different pieces and having been in a room and see someone in the beginning stages of something or you see someone go to the board in a math class and actually explain how they got the answer they got I just think those little, those many successes that you witness throughout the days and throughout the weeks are really exciting too Thank you. Yeah definitely similar to make you sing The students, most of the students who went through the Amherst Middle School are now in high school and seeing how much they've matured and growing up now they've become the young adolescents in middle school to these young adults now about to go off in the world it's great seeing them how thoughtful they are and seeing them in the performance like the Laramie Project or performing in sports and in other ways that they shine throughout the year Yeah I mean one of the interesting piece of feedback I got this year is that at the beginning of the year as you both attended we had convocation and one thing I decided was just to show the video with no sound of students walking across the stage just as filler when our staff are walking in because it's really the only opportunity that our entire staff gets together each year and how many people and I'm talking about kindergarten teachers not just people at the high school really appreciated seeing that and trying to see if they could see their students up in the stage or as young adults walking across the stage so that's something that we plan to make an annual tradition because we do live stream that for family members so we have a really nice videotape of that event but I was surprised and I said let's see how it goes but the number of people came up to me all grade levels high school middle and elementary and even preschool and saying just what an amazing experience because not everyone can go to the graduation not everyone can attend that but to see their work materialize in that tangible way is really powerful so I agree with you it really is a special event and we need to thank you because I remember calling you asking you for the live stream of that event because we have so many students who have family members that that is such an event that they want to see but they're not in Amherst and so I just want to continue to thank you thank you for doing that supporting good staff ideas is the best thing I do so you know you talked about a little bit earlier Talib in ways that students become leaders at the high school level especially developmentally their readiness is pretty high for that what can you describe a little bit of either of you can you describe a little bit of how that might work or how you see that working in terms of students taking on more active roles in the leadership of the school so of course we have the student government that students our student council students get elected to and do a great job of advocating for their peer groups for different causes and events they want to put on also this year with the restorative justice program it's a great leadership opportunity for those students too I mean that specifically was designed for to teach them how to perform restorative circles and to be leaders amongst their peers and many of our after school programs the MSAN Minority Student Achievement Network another great leadership opportunity they go to conferences all over the country and then they bring back what they've learned with an action plan on things they can do to try to help the school feel more inclusive and welcoming and again they create an action plan to do the nationwide MSAN conference and then they come back and share it with their peers also there's a lot of little ways that students can become that we see them becoming leaders in the hallways helping out one another and classroom teachers also provide a lot of leadership opportunities for students where they're just leading a group discussion or being leading a lab or other activities like that within the classroom so it's nice that they have a variety of ways of course there's sports performing arts in other ways the leadership that they display in those arenas also they demonstrate throughout the day in school as well thank you given the age of the students how do parents and guardians interact with the school because we know that as students get older they may not want their parents and guardians some may not want their parents and guardians as involved as when they were in for instance elementary school how do you see the role of parent guardians playing out at Amherst Regional High School we really appreciate when parents advocate for the students that's incredibly important and it's just part of a partnership that we want to cultivate and at the same time as students get into the older grades it's not uncommon that we have conversations to say okay so how can we help support the student to self advocate and while I know what the ultimate goal is what can we do to position the student to be able to demonstrate those skills whether it's the communication skills or those self advocacy skills so doing that with parents so instead of saying I'm not willing to engage with you I'd like the student to do that I've actually worked with parents to say okay how can we together we'll set up the meeting and we'll have a student come into my office and talk about what it is that might be going well or not well so we really try to shift that conversation to the students but at the same time there's some events that do really just require parental and guardian involvement and that's fine too so our last question is often times after people view these and thanks to Amherst Media for all your work they like to say oh I'd like to help with that or oh I actually want to reconnect I'm an alumni and I saw this on YouTube or Facebook what is the best way for viewers to get in touch with you if they have an idea they want to share or they have a question about the high school they're thinking about where to send their child for next year so I can put a plug in for the PGO coffee that's coming up on January 24th where Talib and assistant principal Mary Custard who's not here today but she will be joining us and that's our opportunity to really sit with community members who are available but if not everyone's going to be able to make it out that night they should everyone should feel encouraged to contact us by email they can call the main office and get to one of us and families are always welcome to schedule an appointment what's the main office number just because the email I know of yes<PHONE_NUMBER> thank you so much well thank you so much for joining us I know viewers will learn a lot more know a lot more after watching this about Amherst Regional High School and thanks for your daily work keeping all 950 of our students engaged and focused on the learning in the variety of ways that we conceptualize learning in Amherst so thank you so much and thanks to you the viewers we'll be back next month with another episode and thanks again to Amherst Media for their generous support of the Window into Arps show


Spell it right in English. Which is correct? They're planning a party. Which is correct? He's writing a letter. Which is correct? She's lying to you. Which is correct? It's only the beginning. Which is correct? Forgetting is not an option. To learn more about this topic, see video at link. Or check out our website for more free English learning resources.