My very simple fundamental answer is people who have the heart for humanity, who is not afraid of making mistakes, and who is into learning and keep learning. Even educators with degrees, if they don't learn and they just go by the textbooks, they are not able to do this job well. 83% of professors are white. Those are the people who constitute the institution. Those are the people who teach. Professors are also researchers. Those are the people who hold a pen. People who hold a pen have the power to write history. They have the power to write books. So in many ways, I think that if we can get educators to teach themselves, then they're able to engage in this sort of work. I would say that in order for us to meaningfully engage in this sort of work, we've got to look beyond textbooks. Now, by that, I mean why educators have to do the job.  Leave the lives of people of color. Walk in the moccasin of people of color. But all of us here at Higher Ed sit in this comfy chair that we are not willing to do the job. However, we want to profess other people, this is how you should live your life. And we are the warriors of social justice. You cannot be the warriors if you have not trained yourself to bear arms, right? So the way I look at this issue is that we've got to dig beyond textbooks now. It goes back to the very fundamental history of this country. When the colonies came to this land, churches shaped what we had in this country, the first university, Harvard University. Harvard University mirrors the teaching method in church in those early days in 1800s, and that's what we get. Have we been taught to think critically? Yeah, we have. But how well can we think critically if we're only being surrounded by people who look at us and live among people who look like us? Beyond the surface, we've got to look what is printed in the text. We've got to read what is between the texts. It's just like in communication, what is being said are the messages that we can hear. But what is being unsaid is the most important thing for educators to do this sort of work. They have to look beyond just as superficial. Now many times when we think about social justice, we have this sort of thinking that is influenced by the 19th century imperialism of this country, that we conquered the brown brothers who are the Filipinos, right? So now what do we have in higher education? Study abroad courses that we would go to developing countries, work in Cambodia, help the villages build their houses, and we teach them to speak English because that gives them better chances in their life. We can move beyond the traditional thought of, oh, if I want to learn about culture, I've got to go to some exotic land in Mongolia to look for that. No, we don't have to. Culture is here, culture is in this country. We live in a country that is not equal and is divided, and our efforts should go into this before we try to save other people and maybe have we asked for permission, do they need our saving?


Moms for Liberty is a fascist organization that originally materialized an opposition to COVID-19 safety precautions in schools but quickly became known for their anti-LGBTQ plus policies in education. Now we're not just talking about an ordinary collection of angry conservative Karens who decided to organize. Moms for Liberty is designated as an extremist group by the Southern Poverty Law Center with known ties to extremist organizations like the Proud Boys and some chapters even have ties to right-wing militias like the Sovereign Citizens and even QAnon. And Vice News has documented harassment and intimidation of school board officials and even students. So these aren't ordinary moms, we're talking about mumsies. And I don't think that it's uncharitable to call them mumsies considering the number of oopsies that they've made. For example, the Hamilton County Chapter in Indiana was forced to apologize after they quoted Hitler in their first issue of their parental brigade newsletter. And the shenanigans haven't stopped since then. Last month members of a Florida chapter literally reported a librarian to the Sheriff's Office claiming that she committed a felony by sharing pornography with minors. But in actuality, the librarian checked out a young adult novel to a 17-year-old student and to make matters worse the entire thing was orchestrated by Moms for Liberty. So they got a teacher to ask a student to check out the book and once it was checked out, said teacher then gave it to Moms for Liberty so they can then file a police report. And they did. And the teacher there was in cahoots with them and didn't even work for the district. She was none other than Vicki Baguette who successfully got more than 100 books banned in her own district. But you might be thinking, Mike, you're being too hard on them. They've done some good things. For example, in their Telegram channel they've shared information about a Christmas toy drive for needy children. And sure, that is good theoretically speaking. But there is a cache as explained by this TikTok. Unfortunately, what I'm about to show you is real. It's from my friend Laura Burkhart who has all the receipts in the world. This screenshot comes from the Moms for Liberty Uncensored Telegram channel. Operation White Christmas, the fourth annual Operation White Christmas is underway. Operation White Christmas is an online toy drive for white families in need. In the interest of racial justice and pro-white advocacy, we want to ensure that white families in need are not turned away as they frequently are by other charitable efforts. Now I am the epitome of white and I've done a lot of charity drives and toy drives and I have never seen one with a race requirement. So when they say White Christmas, they're not just talking about snow. Now the white's only toy drive they shared was organized by the National Justice Party, which is not a real political party, rather it is a neo-nazi group comprised mostly of white supremacists who attended the 2017 Charlottesville March and that group's event is being promoted in a Moms for Liberty Telegram channel. Now we're barely scratching the surface here but by now I'm sure you kind of get the sense as to what this organization represents and what it's all about, which is why I call them Momsies and now you can probably see why that's actually pretty accurate. But the growing prominence of Moms for Liberty in school districts across the country thankfully has led to colossal backlash because once other parents find out what they're about, well they reject what they're doing. As the New York Post reports, progressives dominated school board elections in November after putting up with Moms for Liberty's bullshit for two years and a majority of the 130 candidates Moms for Liberty endorsed failed to win seats on school boards. In other words, they galvanized normal parents who opposed their fascistic and hateful tactics and things have only gotten worse for them since then. The Philadelphia Inquirer reports, Philip Fisher is a pastor and Republican ward leader who coordinates faith-based outreach for Philadelphia's Moms for Liberty chapter. He's also a registered sex offender due to a 2012 felony conviction for aggravated sexual abuse of a 14-year-old boy when Fisher was 25. A national spokesperson for Moms for Liberty did not respond to a request for comment about Fisher's criminal history. Sheila Armstrong, another Republican ward leader who chairs the local Moms for Liberty chapter, said she was also surprised. She said Fisher has been active in community outreach events with local and federal law enforcement and she expressed concern that children were sometimes part of that. The National Moms for Liberty organization held a summit in Philadelphia this past summer where denying transgender identity for children and removing books from school libraries were major themes. So while there are busy screeching about the need to protect children from LGBTQ plus people by banning queer books and gender-affirming care, they seem to overlook the fact entirely that the real threat was among their ranks. It's always the people who you suspect the most, isn't it? But that's not all because the Florida Center for Government Accountability reports Christian Ziegler, Florida's GOP chairman and husband of Sarasota County School Board member and Moms for Liberty co-founder Bridget Ziegler is under criminal investigation after a woman filed a complaint with the Sarasota Police Department alleging the longtime Republican official had raped her. And this is according to a heavily redacted police report obtained by the Florida Trident. The complaint was filed on October 4th and the alleged sexual battery occurred inside the woman's home in Sarasota on October 2nd, according to the report.  Now the Orlando Sentinel adds Ziegler and the woman who he'd known for 20 years agreed to have a sexual encounter including his wife on October 2nd. But the woman canceled when she learned Bridget was unable to make it, police said in the affidavit. The woman told detectives she opened her door to walk her dog and Ziegler entered her apartment and sexually assaulted her, the affidavit states. The victim advised Christian did not wear a condom and he stated, quote, I'm leaving the same way I came in, the affidavit states. Now to be clear, no allegations have been made against Bridget Ziegler at the time that I record this video at least and every sexual encounter that she's had with the accuser has been consensual as far as we know, but this is all problematic for a number of reasons. First and foremost, the husband of a mom's for liberty co-founder is an alleged sexual predator. Second of all, as Alejandro Carbio points out, Bridget Ziegler might not be a predator herself, but she is a major proponent of LGBTQ plus censorship in Florida even though she is a closeted bisexual. So if LGBTQ plus people supposedly pose a threat to children, as this organization suggests, wouldn't it logically follow that Bridget Ziegler, a bisexual woman, also poses a threat to children? Now, she's not the first hate-mongering closet case to get exposed and she certainly won't be the last, but the fuckups for this organization keep piling up and after taking repeated Ls, at some point, the members of this organization in chapters across the country are going to have to distance themselves from the bigger organization if they want people to believe that they actually care about kids. But here's the thing, they don't. They never cared about kids, but as the organization continues to implode, more people are going to learn that they are the ones we should be protecting children from because as the saying goes, every conservative accusation is a confession and mom's for liberty is demonstrating how true that is in real time. So we'll have to see how long this organization survives, but this is all turmoil that is completely self-inflicted and it's not really that surprising because conservatives who are genuinely bad people are going to do bad things.


John Parker, my friend, who's here in LA with his beautiful wife Maggie, there are a couple to do this together, I'll tell you. John is a member of the International Peace Delegations accompanied by former U.S. Attorney Ramsey Clark that traveled to many countries targeted by U.S. bombings, including Syria and Sudan. He is a member of the Socialist Unity Party Harriet Tubman Center for Social Justice. And John, I know you for a long time, and thanks for being here with us tonight. And thanks for all you guys do. Thanks. Hey, I was wondering if I could share the screen here. If it's hard, it doesn't matter. I don't need to share it. I had a picture of the highway to death that was the bombing in 1991 in February, the U.S. military jets and helicopters rained napalm and cluster bombs and 30 millimeter shells on convoys of Iraqi soldiers, civilians, refugees, and at least 1,000 people were burned alive or shot to death while fleeing. And there's a picture which shows and it just gives an image of imagine this happening on the 101 or something like that on a highway and you see all these cars and carnage and just to give a picture of what U.S. war looks like. The pilots called it a turkey shoot, the ones who did that highway of death killings. They said it was like shooting fish in a barrel. And it was one of the final acts of the massive bombing by the first Bush administration. It was named Operation Desert Storm, where they gave about 89,000 tons of bombs on Iraq, killing over hundreds of thousands of people, destroyed the country's oil refineries, power grids, water stations. It's only planned for baby formula. And it just to make the point that these targets of U.S. imperialism, they have a real human cost and they're justified by vilification. The latest enemy of the U.S. that's getting in the way of U.S. profits is vilified. But even everything they said to make these wars happen is true. Even if it was true, even though it never is an entirety or if at all, just think about how brutal the killings are of the U.S. presidents responsible for the killing of millions, not just once, but in almost every U.S. war from the killing of millions in the Philippines, millions in North Korea and a combined recent wars of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya today. And I didn't even mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the death by destabilization, starvation, our drones in Indonesia, Sudan, Congo and Yemen and Somalia and Pakistan from the U.S. The UN is estimating that 16 million people will die, mostly children, of starvation in Yemen due to the supported war by the U.S. with Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Now, we often accused Syria of using chemical weapons. But the fact is the U.S. employs them and pays others, including those who are fighting against the government in Syria to use them often from the usage in Vietnam to the continued use of napad in Iraq along with white phosphorus usage and other things. When I went to Iraq on the delegation there with Ramsey Clark, we visited hospitals and we went there in 2013 after their claims of chemical weapon use by Syria. We went there and we around the hospitals in Damascus, we interviewed victims of sniper attacks and the bombings. And they gave detailed explanations of how they were attacked by anti-government forces. And never mentioned the government forces that were doing this, they said, that they didn't, that's what the U.S. was in the western, many was telling us, but they had another story. We spoke to refugees who lost their homes. We heard many stories about kidnappings and ransoms of a million Syrian pounds by anti-government forces. I spoke with a reporter from the sun in the U.K. and she was extremely frustrated that the evidence she found of the then chemical attack in 2013 being blamed on the government that she had evidence that the so-called rebels were responsible for this, but she couldn't get her words published in the newspaper. Instead, they were taking evidence, so-called evidence from a person who MI6 had already linked to ISIS who lives in the U.K., supposedly reporting from Syria. There are many lies that are going on and there are lies about the chemical, so-called chemical attack that supposedly happened in Douma in Syria where many scientists and other folks including Noam Chansky and internal reports that WikiLeaks leaked in the South 2019 saying that these reports about chemical attack by Syria were unfounded and weren't compatible with the truth. In fact, the BBC was caught in a lie and had to recount. BBC editor John Williams published in his blog what amounts to an apology for his news organization's coverage of the Hula massacre that took place in Syria in 2012 in May. It was blamed on the Syrian government, but he said he found evidence to the contrary after he'd ordered. Unfortunately, that recounting was not publicized nearly as much as the accusation, but he said he quoted some a Western official and he said those opposed to President Assad have an agenda, Williams points out. One senior Western official went as far as to describe their YouTube communications as brilliant. He linked them to PSI ops, brainwashing techniques used by the U.S. and other military to convince people of things that may not necessarily be true. And these lies and distortions about Muslim fighting the U.S. being there to fight the Muslim terrorists, they had their birth during the Afghanistan intervention under Jimmy Carter. In fact, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Nusrah Front, Taliban were all given resources, weapons and money to thrive. In the Taliban's case, this started with Jimmy Carter's administration where the Mujahideen fighting the revolutionary government in Afghanistan was given billions in training to become the Taliban that we now know. And this should help folks understand that imperialism is systemic. It's not democratic or republican party, they're all part of this capitalist system of its current capitalist system of imperialism. So when Trump said he was getting out of Syria, this is what really happened. I mean, the White House had made a tactical shift in an effort to pull Turkey back into the U.S. and NATO orbit. And that shift followed the victories of Syria and its allies in eight years of war over invading mercenary forces armed and paid by the U.S., Britain, France, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Turkey, and Israel. So while Trump was tweeting about pulling out of Syria, days after several hundred U.S. troops were transferred out of northern Syria, a U.S. armored brigade invaded eastern Syria and seized the country's oil fields. And Trump said, we're leaving soldiers to secure the oil. He said that he was speaking about the estimated 2.5 billion barrels of oil reserves. He said there's massive amounts of oil and what I intend to do perhaps is make a deal with Exxon Mobile are one of our great companies to go in there and do it properly. Mark Esper was the defense secretary at the time threatened to use overwhelming force to keep Syria from using its own oil fields. You know what? I was going to set my timer. I forgot to set it. How am I doing on time here? A few more minutes. Okay. All right. Let me skip over here a little bit. I know we don't want to take too long. So on November 6th at a White House meeting, Trump and the Pentagon officials agreed to expand the U.S. military mission in Syria. So there goes all that talk about Trump getting out of Syria. Meanwhile, U.S. and armed and trained terrorists and militias that had been driven from Syria returned under the protection of an invading NATO Turkish troops. And they attacked villagers, murdered civilians and all the other things, the horrible things that they did. Trump encouraged the invasion. And on October 9th, October, they launched their offensive, Turkey had launched their offensive. And on October 10th, the U.S. vetoed the United Nations Security Council resolution condemning the invasion. So now we have the bombing of Syria and Iraq recently by Biden to supposedly protect our retaliate or the latest verbiage which really amounts to the U.S. enforcing an occupation in Iraq, which the government in Iraq said they wanted ended. So why are they there in the first place? Why is the U.S. there in the first place? They're people's forces in Iraq who are trying to get rid of the U.S. presence. And by international law, they have the right, that right, since it's an illegal occupation unwhited by the Iraqi people. This attack by Biden was a statement saying the U.S. doesn't care about international law or sovereignty as long as profits sort of be made. And even though Biden denies it, the Syrian government and media report say that media is from Syria have also reported that the U.S. coalition has continued to strengthen its illegal presence in northeastern Syria, establishing multiple bases to protect and train allied forces and terrorist organizations, operating under their command and to guard oil fields, extracting resources. And it's estimated that about $30 million per month in oil is being stolen by the U.S. again from Syria. Many have mentioned how this, I'm going to conclude here, many have mentioned how the money for war is stolen from what we need in healthcare and food, etc. But how are we going to stop them? How do we make them do that? We have to increase our power to challenge their right to run this country. How do we do that? By building our solidarity with each other in all the struggles of people fighting U.S. empire and their police domestically here, whether that be the fight against races, police murder against black and brown people, our indigenous rights, our fight against sexism and LGBTQ oppression, we have to make all these struggles, especially the struggles against racism, as part of the anti-war movement, as an anti-war struggle so that we can build the unified power necessary to not only stop U.S. war, but in this capitalist system of racism, exploitation, poverty and war. And hopefully I didn't go too long there. Thank you, John. Thank you so much for all your and Maggie's excellent organizing here in the LA area. Thanks. It will go into the record for sure.


Live from San Jose in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit 2018. Brought to you by Hortonworks. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks here in San Jose, California. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, James Kubilis. We're joined by Stephanie McReynolds. She is the Vice President of Marketing at Alation. Thanks so much for returning to theCUBE, Stephanie. Thank you for having me again. So before the cameras were rolling, we were talking about Kevin Slaven's talk on the main stage this morning. And talking about, well, really the background is sort of this concern about AI and automation coming to take people's jobs. But really his overarching point was that we really, we shouldn't let the algorithms take over and that humans actually are an integral piece of this loop. So riff on that a little bit. Yeah, what I found fascinating about what he presented were actual examples where having a human in the loop of AI decision-making had a more positive impact than just letting the algorithms decide for you and turning it into kind of a black box. And the issue is not so much that there's very few cases where the algorithms make the wrong decision. What happens the majority of the time is that the algorithms actually can't be understood by humans. So if you have to roll back and do the decision-making or uncover it.  Right, right. And so his point was if we want to avoid not just poor outcomes, but also make sure that the robots don't take over the world, right? Which is wherever you like media person goes first, right? That you really need a human in the loop of this process. And a really interesting example he gave was what happened with the 2015 storm. And he talked about 16 different algorithms that do weather predictions. And only one algorithm predicted mis-predicted that there would be a huge weather storm on the East Coast. So if there had been a human in the loop, we wouldn't have caused all this crisis, right? And a human could easily see. And this is the storm that shut down the subway system and really canceled New York City for a few days there. That's right. So I find this pretty meaningful because Elation is in the data cataloging space. And we have a lot of opportunity to take technical metadata and automate the collection of technical and business metadata and do all this stuff behind the scenes. I mean, the discovery of it and the analysis. Leading the discovery of this and leading to actual recommendations to users of data that you could turn into automated analysis or automated recommendations. Algorithmically augmented human judgment is what it's all about. Really, I see it. What do you think? Yeah, but I think there's a deeper insight that he was sharing is it's not just human judgment that is required, but for humans to actually be in the loop of the analysis as it moves from stage to stage that we can try to influence or at least understand what's happening with that algorithm. And I think that's a really interesting point. There's a number of data cataloging vendors. Some analysts will say there's anywhere from 10 to 30 different vendors in the data cataloging space. And as vendors, we kind of have this debate. Some vendors have more advanced AI and machine learning capabilities and other vendors haven't automated at all. And I think that the answer, if you really want humans to adopt analytics and to be comfortable with the decision making of those algorithms, you need to have a human in the loop in the middle of that process of not only making the decision but actually managing the data that flows through these systems. Well, algorithmic transparency and accountability is an increasing requirement. It's a requirement for GDPR compliance, for example. That's right. But I don't see yet, in Wikibon, we don't see a lot of solution providers offering solutions to enable a more of an automated rollup of the narrative of an algorithmic decision path. But that clearly is a capability as it comes along and it will, that will absolutely depend on a big data catalog managing the data, the metadata, but also helping to manage the tracking of what models were used to drive what decision and what scenario. So that plays into what Elation and others in your space do. We call the data catalog almost as if the data is the only thing that we're tracking, but in addition to that metadata or the data itself, you also need to track the business semantics, how the business is using or applying that data and the algorithmic logic. So that might be logic that's just being used to transform that data or it might be logic to actually make an automated decision like what they're talking about in GDPR. It's a data artifact catalog. These are all artifacts that are derived in many ways or supplement or complement the data. They're all, it's all the logic. And what we talk about is, how do you create transparency into all those artifacts, right? So a catalog starts with this inventory that creates a foundation for transparency, but if you don't make those artifacts accessible to a business person who might not understand what is metadata, what is a transformation script, if you can't make those artifacts accessible to what I consider a real or normal human being, right? I love to geek out, but at some point not everyone can understand. I'm a normal human being. I'm the abnormal human being among the questioners here. Most people in the business are just giving their arms around how do we trust the output of analytics? How do we understand enough statistics to know what to apply to solve a business problem or not?  Well, I want to ask about that human that we're talking about that needs to be in the loop at every stage, that surely we can make the data more accessible, but it also requires a specialized skill set. And I want to ask you about the talent because I noticed on your LinkedIn, you said, hey, we're hiring, so let me know. That's right, we're always hiring, we're startups. Growing well.  I mean, what is the pipeline here? Are people getting the skills they need? Yeah, I mean, there's a wide, what I think is the misnomer is it's actually a wide variety of skills. And I think we're adding new positions to this pool of skills. So I think what we're starting to see is an expectation that true business people, if you're in a finance organization or you're in a marketing organization or you're in a sales organization, you're going to see a higher level of data literacy be expected of that business person. And that doesn't mean that they have to go take a Python course and learn how to be a data scientist. It means that they have to understand statistics enough to realize what the output of an algorithm is and how they should be able to apply that. So we have some great customers who have formally kicked off internal training programs that are data literacy programs. Munich Reinsurance is a good example they spoke with James a couple of months ago in Berlin. Yeah, this conference in Berlin, yeah. That's right, that's right. And their chief data officer has kicked off a formal data literacy training program for their employees so that they can get business people comfortable enough and trusting the data. It's a business culture transformation initiative that's very impressive. Yeah. How serious they are and how comprehensive they are. But I think we're going to see that become much more common. Pfizer has taken, who's another customer of ours, has taken on a similar initiative. And how do they make all of their employees be able to have access to data but then also know when to apply it to particular decision-making use cases. And so we're seeing this need for business people to get a little bit of training and then for new roles like information stewards or data stewards to come online, folks who can curate the data and the data assets and help the kind of translators in the organization. Stephanie, would there be a need for an algorithm curator or a model curator to, you know, like a model whisperer to explain how these AI convolutional current, whatever all these neural networks, how, what they actually do. You know, would there be a need for that going forward? Another is a normal human being who can somehow be bilingual in neural net and in standard language. I think so.  Oh my gosh, they're so busy doing their job. How can we expect them to explain it?  And this is the challenge with some of the regulations like GDPR. We aren't set up yet as organizations to accommodate this complexity of understanding. And I think that this part of the market is going to move very quickly. So as vendors, one of the things that we can do is continue to help by building out applications that make it easy for information stewardship. How do you lower the barrier for these specialist roles and make it easy for them to do their job by using AI and machine learning where appropriate to help scale the manual work, but keeping a human in the loop to certify that data asset or to add additional explanation and then taking their work and using AI and machine learning and automation to propagate that workout throughout the organization so that everyone then has access to those explanations. So you're no longer requiring the data scientists to hold like, I know other organizations that hold office hours and the data scientists like sit at a desk like you did in college and people can come in and ask them questions about neural nets and that's just not going to scale at today's pace of business. The term that I introduced just now, the algorithm or model whisperer, the recommender function that is built into your environment in similar data catalog is a key piece of infrastructure to rank, to relevance rank, the outputs of the catalog are responses to queries that human beings might make. The recommendation ranking is critically important to help human beings assess what's going on in the system and give them some advice about how to, what avenues to explore, I think. Yeah, and that's part of our definition of data catalog. It's not just this inventory of technical metadata.  That's where a lot of vendor solutions start, right? And that's an important foundation. Yeah, for people who don't live 100% of their work day inside the big data catalog, I hear what you're saying. Yeah, so people who want a data catalog, how you make that relevant to the business is you connect those technical assets, that technical metadata, with how is the business actually using this in practice and how can we have proactive recommendations with recommendation engines and certifications and this information steward then communicating through this platform to others in the organization about how do you interpret this data and how do you use it to actually make business decisions. And I think that's how we're going to close the gap between technology adoption and actual data-driven decision-making, which we're not quite seeing yet. We're only seeing when they survey only about 36% of companies are actually confident they're making data-driven decisions, even though there have been millions, if not billions of dollars, that have gone into the data analytics market and investments. And it's because as a manager, I don't quite have the data literacy yet and I don't quite have the transparency across the rest of the organization to close that trust gap on analytics. Here's my feeling in terms of cultural transformations across businesses in general. I think the legal staff of every company is going to need to get real savvy on using those kinds of tools like your catalog with recommendation engines to support e-discovery or discovery of the algorithmic decision pass that were taken by their company's products because they're going to be called by judges and juries under subpoena and so forth and so on to explain all this. And they're human beings who've got law degrees but who don't know data. They need the data environment to help them frame up a case for what we did and so we, meaning the company that's involved, you know? Politicians, I mean, anyone who's read Kathy's book, Weapons of Math Destruction, there are some great use cases of where- Math, M-A-T-H. Yes, M-A-T-H. But there's some great examples of where algorithms can go wrong and many of our politicians and our representatives in government aren't quite ready to have that conversation. I think anyone who watched the Zuckerberg hearings, in Congress, saw the gap of knowledge that exists between the legal community and the tech community today. So there's a lot of work to be done to get ready for this new future. But just getting back to the cultural transformation needed to make data-driven decisions, one of the things you were talking about is getting the managers to trust the data and we're hearing about what are the best practices to have that happen in the sense of starting small, be willing to experiment, get out of the lab, try to get to insight right away. What would your best advice be to gain trust in the data? Yeah, I think the biggest gap is this issue of transparency. How do you make sure that everyone understands each step of the process and has access to be able to dig into that? If you have a foundation of transparency, it's a lot easier to trust. Rather than, you know, right now we have kind of like the high priesthood of analytics going on, right? And some believers will believe but a lot of folks won't. And you know, the origin story of Elation is really about taking these concepts of the scientific revolution and scientific process and how can we support for data analysis those same steps of scientific evaluation of a finding? That means that you need to publish your data set.  And you have to be open and foster conversations around data in your organization. One other customer of ours, Myer, who's a grocery store in the Midwest. And if you're West Coast or East Coast based, you might not have heard of them. But Myer is 50 acres. I'm from Michigan. I know them. Yeah, there you go. Gigantic grocery chain in the Midwest. And Joe Oppenheimer there actually introduced a program that he calls the social contract for analytics. And before anyone gets their license to use Tableau or MicroStrategy or SAS or any of the tools internally, he asks those individuals to sign a social contract which basically says that I'll make my work transparent. I will document what I'm doing so that it's shareable. I'll use certain standards and how I format the data so that if I come up with a really insightful finding, it can be easily put into production throughout the rest of the organization. So this is a really simple example. His inspiration for that social contract was his high school freshman who was entering high school and had to sign a social contract that he wouldn't make fun of the teachers or the students. So you know, very simple basics. Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't make fun of the teachers. We all make fun of the contract. Oh my gosh, you have to make fun of the teacher. I think he was a little more formal than that in the language. That was the concept. That's violating your civil rights as a student, I'm sorry. Stephanie, it's always so much fun to have you here. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. I'm Rebecca Knight for James Kobielus. We will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of DataWorks just after this.