Ehoneth Nest was stared when President Borla Tinnubu made his inaugural pronouncement about subsidy. The price of petrol immediately jumped from 185 Naira to 500 Naira and above. Minifilm stations have shut down, herding the product, including the NNPC stations. The NLC met with representatives of government and key stakeholders. This morning we'll be talking about this with the NLC, who will bring us up to speed on the developments of things. Of course we'll also be looking at the headlines from the national dailies. Let's see what people are seeing, what the headlines are and how they affect our country. We'll also be looking at that on the show this morning. Hello and good morning. Welcome to the breakfast. It is a Friday Friends edition and I am Maury. And I am Nyamgul. It's so good to have you join us this morning and we're hoping that you're really having a wonderful time. In everything like the say, give glory to God. So if you need to trek nowadays, maybe that's just what you need. The exercise that you have been running away from and you keep postponing and saying, I will hit the gym next Monday and next Monday never comes. Now next Monday has looked for you and it's upon you. So you have to take that next Monday now. So many interesting things are popping up on social media and bringing us to this problem that people are having with transportation. Very funny comedies too. There was one I saw that involved one hugging somebody and then transporting you. You disappeared to another place. A few things to make people laugh as they suffer in this season. It's just so unfortunate that things have happened the way they have happened because immediately that inaugural statement was made by the president. Some filling stations shut down immediately. Prizes went up and including the NNPC and they have brought out pricing a template which the NLC is saying no. Do you do that in an economy that is supposed to be a free market?  If the government station as it is is bringing out these prices, how much more we, because people are blaming the marketers and saying you bought these products at a regulated, not a regulated, subsidized rate while you're selling it high. But the person who sold it to them is selling it for a higher price. So what do you expect them to do? That means when they go back to get this product it might so skyrocket that they will, a lot of them might be out of business or they will go borrowing which is not really very good these days knowing that the interest rate is getting higher and higher instead of coming down. So I really don't know how our country will work. The president should not have announced that, made a statement. The way he made it, yes. On that day. I think it was careless. Yes. So many Nigerians agree that subsidy should go but the process, the method, the methodology in which it should go is what is key in all of this. Nigerians are going through a needless pain at the moment. Transportation has increased to a level that you begin to wonder how the person who is earning 30,000, 60,000, 100,000, 150,000 because everything... 150,000 you have no job. You have no job. 450,000. How are you going to cope? Because everything has tripled and this is just the beginning. Yeah. We're beginning to feel it first with the transports. It's going to affect the food. It's going to affect virtually everything. So you begin to wonder and hope that people will not be pushed into depression. We understand that fuel subsidy needed to go. They've always been saying it, even though we don't understand it. They say there are people who enjoy the money. But I know that when these people were enjoying the money, we were buying fuel for 89 Naira. We were buying fuel for less than 100 Naira. Now people will not enjoy the money anymore, but we'll be paying 700 Naira for a liter of fuel and all that. So the bulk of us do not understand what is really going on. And we do hope that there won't be another subhead that will take this fuel subsidy money, because if there's a cabal that feeds fat on this fuel subsidy, that means they will have a plan B. So if it is removed, they will look for other ways. Like I said, and a lot of people agree with this, that the president was careless with his pronouncements. We know this thing is going. How bad, if he had told us that we know that in June, a fuel subsidy will be removed. But this and these XYZ are the measures we are putting in place so that when that time comes, Nigerians won't suffer. Now they're telling us that they're setting committees. They're doing one or two things to make sure they have a roadmap of how to alleviate the sufferings of Nigerians. That's putting the cat before the horse. They never admit when the media announcement that fuel subsidy will elapse in June. They also said that preparatory work will continue with relevant stakeholders and representatives of the incoming administration. So you begin to ask yourself, if they had those preparatory works done, why are we here today? Why would the president even say that he was told he heard that there was no provision in the budget? He was supposed to be in the meeting deciding what to do because this is what is kick-starting his administration. So he should have known and said, okay, this and that. These are the things that I want this administration to do. I think he said nobody, okay, he's not going to give excuses. But I think that statement was an excuse already saying that the fuel subsidy was removed by the last administration. I have nothing to do with this. So if the last administration took a loan that he doesn't understand, will he just say, okay, after all they did it, let me just go and pay? If they brought policies that will not be good for his administration, will he not probe these policies and see whether something can be done about them? It further paints the APC in a very bad light. Very, very. It's giving us a very, very, very wrong impression, very, very bad first impression of this president and the party as a whole. Because that statement, that preparatory work will continue, all right, with people from this incoming government as of that time who are now the ones in government. And here we are starting the way we are starting. It doesn't say well about the direction that this government is going. You know, when we started this talk last week, I had said, was it last week or Monday? I said, well, let's give him time, that by Friday would have gotten some clarity. They would have made some pronouncement. They would have given some statements that would throw more light on how this is going to go. Today is Friday. And the most we've heard is the meeting they've had with NLC, key stakeholders in the oil industry and representatives of this government, led by Delay Allake. And we are beginning to wonder, because what we hear is there's a stalemate from that meeting and it's been postponed to a further date undisclosed. Well, that even throws up something else. NLC, TUC was talking with the federal government and that team was led by Delay Allake. As what? Because we've heard, we heard that he was appointed the spokesman of the government. And they're now saying, he is now saying, He debaunted. Yeah, that he's not the spokesman of the government. He has not been appointed and all that. So how was he representing the government? So everybody will just be talking for the government, even though you have no portfolio with this government. Okay, you're friends of the present government, so you can talk. So it really gives us the impression, like you said, that there's no direction. So what weight does anything he says? What pronouncement will he make? What will he say that will be representative of the government? I just wonder. This is really not a good way to start an administration. And I hope that, well, in fact, I'll stop hoping because I had hoped Monday that by Friday, the government would have thrown more light on how the process is going to go, especially with regards to the palliatives. How are they cushioning it? Because you can't just remove subsidy and throw Nigerians off guard just like that. It came, it took us off guard, even though we knew that eventually this administration was going to address it because it was suspended in May. But to now come and be taken off guard, as we have been taken off guard, is to put it mildly unfair on the citizens of this country. Yeah, when president, former president Goodluck Jonathan was thinking about this idea of removing fuel subsidy, he was really passionate about it. These are the people who occupied Nigeria for it not to be removed. But even then, when it was still being thought about, there was something called Shopee. Shopee was something that was supposed to cushion the effects of removal of subsidy and things were already in place by that time. I remember that at least in crossover, I don't know for other states, at least in crossover, there were buses that were written Shopee, which was subsidy removal fund and all that, that they were trying to make sure that this effect of removing it will be less. And I know that I used those buses from Kalaba to Ogoja. The price of transportation was next to almost half of what the normal people were charging. And there was comfort in the buses. So I could travel home any time I wanted to go home because I knew that I would pay less and I will have the comfort of that bus. But here, no preparation was made, no arrangements were made. And they're saying that, okay, they will take some money and they'll give to the poorest of the poor. How do you even define poor people nowadays? Thank you. When I read that, how do you tell the poorest of the poor? How many Nigerians are really rich today? What data base are they using? Exactly. The middle class is probably no longer existent in the economy. So how do you tell the poorest of the poor? And in any case, these $800 million that we understand were taken as, that would be used as palliative and then $5,000 given to 10,000 homes or thereabout. What is $5,000? How much fuel can you get? How many days I understand that from mainland to CMS today is $2,000. That's one truth. And that may not take the person to the office. I'm just asking, what is the worth of the $5,000 that will be given to the poorest of the poor in this case? 10 liters at best for people who own cars, 10 liters. How many days will you go to work with 10 liters? So even when you have a car, even when you have a car, you are still supposed to be part of the poorest of the poor because you can, like I said earlier, someone earning $150,000 doesn't have a job because first of all, let's say you have the job here on the island and you have to come from the mainland because you can't afford accommodation on the island. You come from the mainland. You were maybe paying $500,000 and now you have to pay $2,000 to come to work. For 10 days, that is already $20,000. So for 30 days, because some of the people who earn less are the ones that work the most because some of these people work from Monday to Saturday. Only maybe Sunday is left out. So you're paying for six days times four. How much will be left for you? You'll be borrowing to pay transport to come to work. The NLC, the TUC should stand their foot on this matter to see that Nigerians, especially the poor, are given some sort of sublanding. The palliative is put in place. It's coming late because this is something that should have been done pre removal of the subsidy. But whatever it is, we are here, we are here. The pronouncement has been made. Now that they are meeting, they've had the first meeting. We don't know when the next meeting is going to take place, but I urge the NLC and the TUC to stand their grounds for the people of the country to ensure that Nigerians are not taking advantage of, because I tell you, many companies are going to shut down. Many people are going to lose their jobs because how many companies, especially the SMEs, can afford to run their companies with the cost of fuel as it is? And you are supposed to buy fuel for your office or whatever shop you're running. You're supposed to buy fuel if you have a car for your car. And then you get back home. You still need fuel for your generator to power the house because there's no constant power. If you go to Ghana for instance and you're buying fuel for a thousand Naira per liter, you know that you only need that fuel for your car. You don't need it at home because there's steady power. You don't need it at the office because there's steady power as well. So here in Nigeria, you have to buy fuel for everything that you own. Automobile, your home, your office and everything. You need power and you don't have power.  Ghana does not produce oil. We do. It's even wrong to say it's the cheapest because when you compare the basic income, the minimum wage in those countries where you're comparing the prices of their fuel, and then you tell yourself there's just no basis on comparison at all. No basis at all. So now this administration is beginning and already we hear that Maritime workers will begin nationwide strike on Monday. Monday. Monday is less than a week after the administration kicked off and already some people are going on strike. And if the federal government will keep invoking the no work, no pay policy and saying that I'm failing in their own duties, I don't know what the courts will say to that, how the response will be because if you're going into your employing someone, there's an agreement that you have to pay this person. And whatever is the entitlement of this person, you have to give. Now the complaints that the people have been complaining is maybe allowances that were supposed to be paid were not paid, XYZ that they agreed upon with the federal government has not been done. That was the case of ASU and so many other people who are going on strike. This XYZ has not been done. And then the government will just have the heart to tell you that in that agreement there was no work, no pay. So if you don't work, no pay. And for a people who were at the fore when it came to agitating for these things before they came into power, it just beats me hollow. Why this administration? I'm talking about everything APC now, why it's like this. And sometimes, like I was talking with another friend of mine and he said, he's just sick and tired of people complaining. It is because people hate APC so they can never get it right. And my question to him was, how many of these things that have been said are wrong? Bring the evidence. And he just said, I'm just tired, let's just keep, let's just forget about this thing. If this is happening and so what, if this person fails to do this and so what are the only ones who have done this? And I say, okay, with that mindset, we may not move because because of that, we may not interrogate the things that we should interrogate, ask the questions we should ask and keep the government and the people who are leading us on their toes. We can never give up. We can never give up. I'm trying to recall an article written by President Tinnable in 2012 when Jonathan removed subsidy. And in that article, he criticized the way, the removal of the subsidy and enumerated some things that should have been put in place first. And so when you read that article, you begin to wonder, why hasn't he done these things the way he had criticized, the way he had suggested it should have been done when he was criticizing Jonathan's administration back then. So those who are saying that you shouldn't, it's not about, it's not personal. It's not. It's about issues here, and Nigerians are suffering. And if you had campaigned to come on board to solve problems and you hit the ground causing more problems, one begins to wonder how prepared were you for this office. All right. So let's move to our top trending. First up trending is Delhi Alakadipant's reports of appointment as Tinnable Spokesperson. This week we had different reports of lists of people who have been appointed. People who have been appointed by the president. And he came out to debunk one of those reports that said he had been appointed as the president's spokesperson. However, in the meeting that took place between the NLC key stakeholders in the oil sector, he was the one that came to represent the president. And so we begin to wonder exactly what is going on. If you are not the president's spokesperson, why were you the one that represented the president? So who were you speaking for? Because the president should have an official spokesperson. Someone he delegates to do that. Someone who by law, because of appointment, has been given that mandate to talk for the president. But right now, if Alakadipant is not the spokesperson, that means he's a friend, he's a friend of this administration because nothing officially has been given to him. So if he's not the spokesperson, ask what was he addressing NLC and TUC and other stakeholders when they were talking about this fuel subsidy removal and what needs to be done if this thing has to succeed. We have also seen Melecari, who is the group manager, NNPC chief, saying that that is President Tinobu will build one refinery before the end of December and that the fuel prices will come down. Before now, NNPC never had a need to have a list of prices according to states and all that. But now they brought a list and then he is talking about what this government is going to do. I don't know if he is another spokesman for the president because the president has not made that pronouncement to the people. So if he was sent, so who is talking to us? It's important that the president comes out. It's important that this administration brings out the list, the official list of those that will be working with them. We need to know the team of the government. It will give Nigerians a sense of understanding about which way the government is going. It will also either boost confidence or reduce confidence in this government. We need to know who is going to be in charge of education, who is going to be in charge of the economy, who is going to be in charge of agriculture. Will there be changes? Will there be improvement? Because when you look at the name, the pedigree of the person attached to these portfolios, then it begins to give you, maybe you're telling Nigerians to be calm, be patient. That list will go a long way in helping Nigerians to calm down and be patient. Because if they see people on that list that they think and believe can deliver, then they'll begin to say, okay, let's wait and see. Perhaps they know what they're doing. But as it is, Nigerians are in the dark and we had hoped that we wouldn't be here today, especially having experienced what we experienced with the last administration that took six months to show those who are going to be working with that administration. We were hoping that this present administration would have learned from the ugly scenario that played out in the course of that administration's delay in releasing the list of those that are working with the government and that this government wouldn't fall in the same trap. But here we are. It is the APC government, perhaps it's part of their manifesto, it's part of their constitution, part of how they play their things. But it is what it is. Before the inauguration, before the elections even, what we understood was that since he has prepared for this long, immediately after he's sworn in, there will be direction. We'll have a list. But immediately after the inauguration, what we started hearing was that, okay, he's going to bring the list of ministers within 60 days. That's two months already for a government or for a country that is struggling and at the brink of whatever disaster that, whether it's perceived or real, we needed action. But as it stands now, we don't even know anybody that we can go to because we can't go to the president. Somebody we can always call and say, okay, what is the president talking about this if the president himself is not going to address us? We were expressing some reservations. We were expressing hope that this president would not be the president that will be talking to us from foreign grounds. Because the last president, anything sensitive, anything important, he was talking to us from outside Nigeria. So is it because he has not traveled yet that we have not heard something really definite about what we are worried about in this country? We need that list. For someone who prepared, even before the 1993 that we had the MK or Biola, he was in the fray just preparing himself, positioning himself, and he's always been quote, unquote in the opposition. When everybody else was PDP, APC, not APC then and all that, but he was AD when everybody was mainstream PDP, he was AD. So he knew what he was doing from long ago, from more than 30 years. So I don't think it should take him more than two weeks even to present a list and leave it to the National Assembly to say, okay, we don't like this, replace him, we don't do this and all that. So what is what is taking so much time to even have a spokesman? All right, let's move to our second trend in civil servants and military to experience delay in May salaries. That's because they have glitches with the CBN portal, that's part of the reasons given for that. Glitches. I don't even know what to say about this. Army, military that are supposed to take care of the territorial integrity of Nigeria, people who have to go into the battlefield to fight for us, you're delaying their salary. Civil servants, the engine room of any government, you're delaying their salaries. Then who is going to end the salary? Will all the political appointees be owed? Will they have a delay? Will they experience a delay in May salaries? And if they're not going to- They will experience delay and anything good. So if they're not going to experience any delay in their salaries, why would the civil servants experience delay? Is it not the same CBN? So why was the glitch just directed at the civil servants and the military and all that? I'm just asking as a layperson, not that I'm beta, but I'm asking as a layperson because these are questions that people who do not understand will ask. You have been operating the same system. There was no change, nothing. And suddenly in May that we have a new administration. We have a glitch in CBN portal or whatever. And then the civil servant salaries will be delayed. People who are already suffering, the military, their salary will be delayed. And we don't know when it is going to be paid because they say it is going to be delayed. I don't know if they gave a specific date that it will be delayed to before it is being paid. Well, that is not clear. As we know it today, we only know about the glitches as a result of a CBN portal. So we'll just wait and see how long it takes. I'm sure it probably wouldn't take them long because this is a very, very sensitive issue. You don't know, of course, states all salaries of workers. So these are interesting times really. Let's move on. We'll be back, give you the weather report and then come back to take a look at the press.


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information. Is it an asset or a liability? Well, that depends on who you're speaking to in an organization. With today's trends in big data, most organizations are looking at big data as an opportunity. At the same time, many IT organizations are struggling with data growth and flat budgets. So how do you reconcile the opportunity of big data with the challenges of data growth and the implications to the organization in terms of risk management? Well, we're here today with Randolph Kahn, who is the principal of Kahn Consulting. Randy is an expert on legal and compliance and policy issues related to business information, electronic records, and information technology. Randy, welcome to the Cube. Hey, thanks so much, Dave. So we're here to talk about a new book that Randy has in the process of writing, should be out in a couple of months. It's called Chucking Daisies, How Companies Deal with Big Data. So, well, first of all, congratulations on almost having the book done. And this is, I think you said your sixth book, which is fantastic. So tell us about the book. What's the premise behind it? So, you know, just the way you started the conversation, this idea that information is an asset, well, that's true. But if organizations can actually find this stuff, it's no longer an asset, it's a liability, it's a cost, it's a pile of risk, it's a pile of inconvenience, it's a pile of inefficiency, right? So Chucking Daisies is a bible for IT professionals with simple rules that say, you know, about shell, you IT professional, do the following things to manage information, right side your information, what print, keep the stuff that you need to keep, get rid of the crud. And it's really a book to help the IT professionals to walk through that problem. You got this big pile of data, what do I keep, what do I get rid of? How do I do it in a legally dependable kind of way? And that's really what Chucking Daisies is about. So, where'd you get the name? Well, if you think about a flower, right, you know, we're going into fall, it's sort of the end of the growing life cycle, right? You go outside with these beautiful leaves, you know, that's just a couple weeks away from looking like death. Well, if you take a look at the life cycle of information, right, that daisy in spring looks beautiful, and it's grabbing sun from the sky, and it's crisp, and the colors of the leaves are brilliant. And then over the course of it's short little life, right? The value of that thing declines. I don't think that most IT professionals think about information as having a life cycle. I mean, in fact, if you look at most organizations today, most folks are keeping everything without regard to what the heck it is, costing them huge amounts of dough, right? So this idea of the daisy, the idea of Chucking the daisy at the end of its useful life, when it's value is declined, when it's no longer attractive, that's the same with information. At the end of the information's life cycle, the idea of parking it somewhere in a repository, a shared drive, it's an expense, it's a liability. And I think IT professionals need to understand the importance of that life cycle. You also use big data in the title. And as I was saying up front, a lot of people are looking at data as an opportunity. And many organizations don't want to throw away that data because there might be some diamond in the rough that they can find years down the road. Are you suggesting that that's the wrong strategy? And can you give us some insight in that regard? The big data is that you have this pool of information that you're able to harness and extract to see trends to understand your business in a deeper, more significant kind of way. So that you can be a more efficient business and you can also plan the future. But the problem is, for most organizations, you think about this way. For the last two or three decades, organizations have been applying information technology and systems to all kinds of business processes. Today, everything is electronic. And for every system, there's electronic information, right? The pool grows and it grows and it grows and it grows. And at some point, big companies have hundreds of terabytes of extraneous stuff, or even petabytes of extraneous stuff.  So big data is this idea that I can take tools and I can understand my business and be a better, more efficient business if I could harness that stuff. Well, actually, for most businesses today, they have so much stuff and they don't have the tools that they need that that pile of data is wholly underutilized. They can't find the record they need to find. Organizations now regularly have to recreate information, but they can't find the stuff that they have. Litigation response tells us over and over and over again, companies don't have their app together. So, you know, I would tell you that that harnessing information and big data context is aspirational for most organizations. I would say ubiquitous mismanagement is much more the theme of the day. So, Randy, with the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure in the mid-2000s, I think 2006 came to four, the General Counsel in various organizations had a lot of power to essentially dictate the policies of organizations in terms of records retention and data, deleting data and the like. Have they not been successful in your regard?  And what risks does that pose to organizations? So, you asked a whole bunch of stuff. Let me start with the General Counsel. Let me also address records management. So, for the records managers, they're not going to want to hear this, and if you heard me speak before, you heard me say it before. But this is the reality. Records management for most organizations is a total utter failure. I mean, think about it this way. The belief about records management is, I will create rules. That rule will tell me how long I need to keep stuff, and then at the end of its use for life, that stuff will go away. Well, I've got to tell you something. For most big organizations today, that stuff is not going away. Those rules, if they exist, are not being applied to the vast majority of electronic content. Rules are way too complex. Policies are way too complex. And so to the extent that there was a huge push for records management, I mean, I have a business, con consulting that does nothing but records management, day in and day out, and I can tell you, for most organizations, even PIN ones, it's not been particularly successful. So, let me ask you, what qualifies you to talk about this topic? And what can an IT executive learn from a lawyer who writes books with interesting names? Yeah, so I spent about 20 years in the information management space, helping organizations and governmental agencies get their Information Management Act together. This last year, I started a business called Dell. And what Dell does, it helps big organizations really operationalize that chucking daisies thing. We have hundreds of terabytes of stuff. We didn't know what to do with it. It grows unfettered and it grows and it grows and it grows and at some point, we need to get rid of that stuff. So what Dell is doing as a new business actually rather successfully is going into big business and helping them in a legally defensible kind of way, cleaning their storage bins of the old information that doesn't have any legal need to be around. It doesn't have any business utility be around. It's basically digital junk, right? So we're going to help them get rid of it. But beyond that, I mean, I've been thinking about this problem for a whole bunch of years. I started my legal career as a litigator. And if you look at most businesses today, and I would say the litigation response problem is a manifestation of it. Most people organizations, as I said earlier, have ubiquitous and failed to manage information. Most of them are not applying retention schedules, the vast quality of electronic stuff. And when a lawsuit happens, or the investigation happens, the idea of finding everything and anything that's even potentially relevant, not only is it a gargantuan burden and an expense and a gargantuan pain in the butt, but in real life, you think that they can actually grab anything and everything that's potentially relevant. If you think about the land, the land, the sand, all the places that information can be parked today, the idea of being successful in that, the idea of finding a record when you need it for business purposes and be successful at that. So, you know, to the heart of your question, I spent my life helping organizations figure this problem out. And I just think about it, maybe slightly more than the next guy. So in case you just joined us, we're here with Randolph Khan, who's an attorney. He's an expert in legal and compliant issues. He helps organizations, you know, figure out squint through the model of the records management records retention policy issues and come up with ways in which they can be more effective looking at information as both an asset and a liability and trying to strike that balance. And he does this every day with his clients. Randy, tell us, talk a little bit about why it is so hard to chuck daisies. Yeah, it's a really interesting question, right? So there's a couple of things that are, I think, driving organizations to the wrong place. The first thing is this erroneous or palatious belief that storage is cheap. Oh, don't worry about it. Storage is cheap.  Why are we going to take it on? Storage is cheap.  Well, this is the deal. Information is growing at, for most organizations anywhere, something between 20 and 50 percent per year. The actual storage cost is going down slightly every year. In real dollars, what they're spending to store stuff because there's so much more, you know, this year than last year. Fact is, storage is not cheap. Storage is a huge cost. And I'll give you an example. We're looking at a project right now for a large insurance company, where this is a Dell project where we're helping them shock the day she's when we're up in the right size or information footprint. We have legally defensively getting rid of the information cut. To do that project, they save millions and millions of dollars per year, just on the storage savings per year on a net basis. So the ROI makes sense, the TCO makes really rapid sense, right? So the first thing you have to break down is storage is not cheap. Second thing is, nobody owns the information anymore. IP says, hey, it's my repository, it's my pipe, it's my box, it's not my information. I don't know what to do with the stuff inside there. The lawyers have said, well, we have lots, since we have investigation, you know, be very, very hesitant about what you do. And all of a sudden, between the storage is cheap, and it's not my problem, I don't know what's in that system. And being a very hesitant set of the lawyers, people say, okay, forget about it, I'm not going to touch it. Now there's a fear. And the information grows and it grows and it grows. And again, from, you know, Adele legal defensibility perspective, the only way that you're going to clean house and not worry about being nailed for destruction of evidence or exfoliation, as lawyers talk about, is having some methodology that says I went through that stuff. I know that that stuff is not a record. I know that stuff is not otherwise needed for auto litigation investigation. It must be digital junk. Because we don't have any business utility with that stuff anymore. Let's get rid of it. But there's got to be some diligence around that. Otherwise, you run substantial risk and get rid of it. You talked about storage is not cheap and lawyers aren't cheap either. But and so I wanted to ask you if you found with your clients that not only have you helped them save storage costs, but what about legal discovery costs? I mean, discovery is a volume driven activity. If you've got less storage, you're, you're paying less to discover, aren't you? Yeah. So as it relates to the way in which Dell makes the business case for our clients, we never ever go to the issue of risk mitigation or litigation costs and response avoidance or being a more efficient business. Those are absolutely real. But their soft costs, some can be quantified.  Now, having said that, is the cost of a lawyer, a significant cost in terms of information review in the context of our litigation investigations are actually lawyers are incredibly expensive. And they love the big piles of information. In fact, what I would say to you is, there's no question that defensively disposing of stuff makes you a more efficient business without question, right? You have much more, you talk about big data, it's big data on actually the relevant information that you need, as opposed to trying to find the information nugget or that needle in that gargantuan information haystack, if you will, right? So I mean, as it relates to the litigation response and inconvenience across, there's no question that that's a gargantuan cost. And it's no question that that's you're gonna find substantial benefit by getting rid of the cross, right? No question. So you've used this term defensible disposition a couple of times. Can you talk a bit more about what that is and define that for our audience? Sure. Sure. So, you know, if you think about it this way, then the issue is, I have a shared drive. And that shared drive has dozens or hundreds of terabytes of content in it. I don't even know what that stuff is anymore. It sits and somebody may be babysits the system or not. And somebody may be active, some of that stuff or not. And what you find, it just sort of sits. Well, for a an organization to go in and look at hundreds of millions of files today, for a big organization, we have clients that billions of files. It's such a substantial volume. There's no way you're going to have your employees do it. First of all, they're really bad at classification. That's number one. But even if they weren't bad at it, compared to technology, it's an incredibly bad use of their time. So really, to chuck the daisies or defensively dispose, I need to have a methodology that sets. I know that the stuff that I'm looking at is not a record. It's not needed any longer for business purposes. And then also, I know that it's not otherwise needed for audit litigation investigation. And I have to find a way to do that with different systems and different kinds of content and different kinds of business arenas and environments. So that I can say, when we dispose of content, that that stuff wasn't otherwise needed. That idea of defensibility, I dispose of it without my people looking at it. I use technology. One of the things that Dell does really efficiently is uses technology tools, the auto classification tools or the machine learning tools to do the heavy lifting, right? So a lot more efficient. So they're a lot better than people. It saves them a boatload of dough. But in the end, I need to do that in a kind of way that's going to make the lawyers comfortable. It's going to make the compliance people comfortable, their business people comfortable. Otherwise, at the end of that process, they're not going to want to pull the trigger to get rid of the current, right? So that defensibility or that defensible methodology allows me to evaluate content in a kind of way, that at the end of that analysis, I can in a legally dispensable kind of way, blow it away in the ordinary courts of business, and not cause the lawyers some hard work. So I want to come back to this notion of defensible disposal and disposition in a second. But before I do, it sounds like a little bit like this is records management 2.0. Is it? Yeah, it's funny that you can just say that because that's exactly how I think about it. If you think about it this when I talked about this earlier, records management fails, because the rules are too complex. They're too voluminous. There's nobody there to apply and technology can't take 1000 rules and apply to anything. It's just, it just is a failure. Really what what Chuckie Daisy talks about what Doug does day in and day out is take that old retention schedule, simplify that thing, operationalize it and then apply it with technology because people can't actually get into that. So let me come back to defensible disposition. You talked about I mean, essentially, technology's gotten into the guttiness into this problem. You're saying you and your clients work together to use technology to help us get out of this problem through classification. And it sounds like you're you're helping them automate that classification. Talk about that a little bit more. Sure. So so when a doubt goes into a client, right, you can assume two things. They're going to have structured content, and they're going to unstructured content. Let's deal with the structured first. The structured content, the stuff in databases, it sits there. And typically, it's the kind of content that doesn't individual employees or businesses typically don't interact with on a regular basis. Someone needs to go in, determine what that stuff is, and determine what business rules or attention rules apply to it, so that it can go away. There are clients that delve has where they have huge volumes of structured content, where they've never applied in archiving technologies.  So there's tools and technology and methodology and experts that delve for it. On the other side of the equation, the unstructured content. Unstructured content sits in all kinds of systems. There's certain kinds of certain kinds of content that auto classification, machine learning technologies are pretty darn good at discerning what it is. There are some file types, because of the uniqueness of the technology or the file type, that makes it much more challenging.  And those kinds of technologies do be earnest more often by more companies. Because as I said before, again, volumes are so great, people simply can't do it anymore. So I want to come back to this issue a little bit and help our audience understand.  How do you deal with that? So when Dell goes into a client, two things are happening. And I think that the direction that you're going in is exactly correct. The first thing is I need to clean up the past. How do I clean up the past? How do I know what something is? What Dell will actually do? They'll take their retention schedule, will simplify it, take their content, will teach their content to a computer, so that when it crawls through hundreds of terabytes of stuff, it actually has learned what that content is, and it can apply the business rule, right? If I'm in a coding record or an HR document, or a contract, whatever it is, we're able to actually go in and teach a incredibly robust classification engine, what your records are, so that instead of people doing it, at night, when the system is not being utilized, or however, the system can crawl through, again, terabytes or petabytes of content, and make business judgments, business decisions and classification against your rules and the content that you taught it. So that's the best cleaning up the past. Dell comes in, cleans the past. On the other side of the equation, again, auto classification, just to clean up the past, if you're a small company, you don't have a lot of data, you're not going to want to do it. Too complicated, too much money. And again, to take it on, I don't want to minimize the upfront exercise to actually train the software on what your content is and the rules. It's not an undertaking that's without cost, without inconvenience and expense. But if you have a lot of content, it makes incredible business value. The business value, again, the idea at the end of the exercise is we can legally, defensively get rid of huge, vast quantities of stuff. It reduces that storage in a macro sense. It reduces that storage footprint, which equates to millions of dollars a year. So once those rules are built, then of course the question is why shouldn't we use that as a new information management paradigm going forward? So what Dell is really doing is coming in and cleaning up the past. And then once you've built the rules, you might as well use it on a go-forward basis and be a more efficient business to actually apply retention rules that's totally different way than you have before without human intervention and doing it, I guess, real-time in systems seamlessly, right? And that's really what Dell is about. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the impact of mobile and bring your own devices. Risk is becoming increasingly decentralized by its very nature. How do you, how should IT organizations ensure that when they think something gets deleted, it actually does get deleted? So let me deal with both parts of your question because they're both really interesting, right? So one of the things that Shocking Daisy does is lays out a series of rules. One of the rules is for every new technology, there's a chunk of informational output and you need to have policies up front in a way to manage that content before you actually implement the system, right? Well, what that tends to do is it tends to force the business question, do I need this content as a business record? And if I do as a system in which we can keep it and store it and access it, is it makes economic sense to do it this way? But if we can't actually readily retain this stuff and store this stuff, how are we going to actually satisfy our legal requirements or how are we going to take care of our business needs? Horsing that policy conversation up front forces you to deal with those issues. At the end of the life cycle, the issue is what am I going to do about all this content that exists that I otherwise need to get rid of? And this is again, from my perspective, most organizations have to build into the process when they develop policy and that new technology implementation up front to say at the end of its useful life, who is going to own this position? Who is going to actually effectuate the disposal of this content? How are we going to do that in a legally defensible kind of way? And if organizations, in particular for IT executives, build that into the process up front, you'd find a great deal less inconvenience expense, business inefficiency, litigation, response, bloodshed, happening. And that's where IT organizations and in particular IT executives need to start wrapping their head around. So talk about who in the organization cares or should care about defensible disposition. So in our delve experience, the people that really care are IT executives. So the middle-level storage guy says, yeah, this seems to make sense. When you take it all the way up to the food chain and say, we can save you 20 or 30 or 40 million dollars per year. Are you interested? It's a really easy sale. Oh, and by the way, the lawyers are going to like it because litigation response is going to be a heck of a lot easier. And it's going to be a heck of a lot cheaper. And your privacy guy is going to like it because we're going to reduce your privacy in your PHI information risk footprint. And that's a good thing.  So make my employees more efficient. And my customers who can actually get answers from me much more readily, you'll find that business will be augmented. The selling defensible disposition is incredibly, incredibly easy on storage alone. There are so many other really significant benefits, but the people that find the greatest value and understand it immediately is the CIO, right? Immediately why? Because I can hand them a whole chunk of money for them to utilize, especially in a credit economy, utilize for buying new technology, hiring new people, building other efficiencies, sister's dead money. Why not chuck the daisies and do something with that dough? So the book is Chuck, Chucking daisies by Randolph Conn, how companies deal with big data. So tell us a little bit more about the book. How did you organize it? What can people expect to see when it hits the stands? Yeah. So the book is structured as simple rules, right? There's 18, 19 simple rules that help organizations and again, primarily IT professionals really understand, right? So a rule might be, for example, never implement technology unless you have policy first. We talked about that. Now, that may seem like no brainer, but the number of organizations that technology sneaks into and all of a sudden a social network is a perfect example, right? When you wake up one day and you have a big insurance company and you realize that all your sales agents are using Facebook to sell policies. Wonderful for business. But wait, you know, we have compliance requirements. We have our potential requirements. What if they have respond litigation? We have some privacy concerns because there's their Facebook account. Every single organization that looks at social networking that says, hey, there's some value here needs to stop first and build that policy construct, right? As we talked about. So the rules are really very straightforward, very pragmatic, very easy to understand. And we use real life to actually make it come alive. And I probably should point out to you that I have a co author. Galena Datovsky is my co author, so I'm not doing it by myself. And the book is will be out roughly when? In the next couple months. Excellent. Alright, Randy, really appreciate you coming on the Cube, spending some time with us sharing your best practices and your knowledge with our community. Love to have you back and hopefully we'll see you at IOD. The Cube will be at IOD next week will be there Monday and Tuesday in Las Vegas. And I hope to have Randy on again, talking about these and other issues. So again, Randy, thanks very much for coming on the Cube. Love to join you. Thank you so much. Alright, thanks for watching everybody. We'll see you next time. This is Dave Vellante at Wikibon headquarters. And this is the Cube.


So the plan is very simple. I will start with network visualization, and I will end with network automation. But before I start, I want to make a short introduction into networking, like a crash course in networking. For those of you who don't know well what it means. So when I say network, what I mean is a telecommunication network. It's a network which nodes are networking devices like routers, switches, and antennas. And a network which links are transmission links, usually Ethernet cables and optical fibers. In the network of an internet service provider, we find three main types of nodes, router, optical switch, and antenna. As you can see, these are very big devices, like with lots of cards and lots of interfaces. So this has nothing to do with the type of device that you would have at home. These are corporate devices that we would find in the network of a big company, like Facebook or Google, or in the network of an internet service provider, like Vodafone, Telefonica, and so on. Same for the transmission links. These are links like those ones on the left, an internet cable with 10G capacity, a 10G connector, and on the right an optical fiber. So internet cables are used for short distance transmission, and optical fibers can be used for both short distance transmission and long distance transmissions. Well, there are a few approximations in this slide because it's like to make it simple for you to understand. But if we imagine that you are in Remini, and you want to call someone in France, like with your mobile phone with a 4G, what would happen is that your mobile phone will send a microwave signal to an antenna that should be located nearby, like close to this Palacongresi. And then the signal will travel through a bunch of antennas. It will be a microwave signal. And this microwave part with antennas, we call it the microwave backhaul. Eventually, it will reach a router. A router is a device that will take the forwarding decision. What we can say about them, it's like the brain of the router. They know how to reach any part of the world, and they will make the forwarding decision. They will know which pass the traffic has to take. In order to do that, the router has what we call a routing table, which is a table that associates an outgoing interface to an IPRS. And finally, since we want to go to France, which is very far, we need the signal to go very fast. So the router will send the signal to what we call an optical switch. And this optical switch will perform an electrical to optical conversion, which means the signal is electrical at first, and it will become a wavelength, which is a stream of light. And on top of that, in a single fiber, we can have usually up to 88 wavelengths, so 88 stream of light. And this is a technology we call Waveland Division Multiplexing, which is used to have very high bandwidth capacity. When we buy network devices from a vendor like Cisco, Nokia, Huawei, they usually provide what we call a network management system. It's like a software or a web application that can be used for network visualization, inventory, provisioning, supervision, and sometimes automation as well. It's a network that has like an overview of the network, of all devices. If we want to visualize our network, the input file that we have is usually a network topology. It could be like a CSV file, Excel file, text file. Basically, it's a file that will contain the list of all nodes and the list of all links and the position of the nodes as well. So if we want to draw this network, as you can see, if we draw nodes at random positions, this doesn't yield a very good display, so we have to find other ways. We have basically two options. The first one is to use, the first one is to draw the nodes at their physical location, where they're physically located by using GPS coordinates. To do that, we use a type of software that we call GIS software, which stands for Geographic Information System. And that allows us to, the idea is to draw maps and draw our network devices on this map. And the other option is to use a graph-during algorithm. I will make a demonstration of both if it keeps working. So what I'm going to show now is how we can create a simple GIS software in Python, so software to draw maps. The first thing that we need is a grid programming framework. We have a lot of such framework in Python. We have PyGDK, PyQT, WX, Python, PySide. But the one I'm going to use is Tecinter. It's Python interface to Tico. And it says the only grid framework that is part of the standard Python distributions, which means you don't have to pip install anything. It's by default. It's a built-in module. Inside that framework, we will need a widget for drawing. All widgets have one. In Tecinter, it's called a canvas. It's basically a widget that allows you to draw circles, rectangles, but most importantly, polygons.  The reason for that is that a map is actually just a set of polygons. If you look at Italy on this slide, Italy is just like a polygon. It can be considered a polygon. So to draw these polygons, we need to have coordinates. And we will use a special type of file, which is called a shape file. A shape file is a file that contains shapes. And the shape file that I'm going to use contains two types of shapes, polygons and multi-polygons. These shapes are described as a list of coordinates, as a list of points on the Earth. And a point on the Earth is defined as a longitude and a latitude. So the first library that we will use is called PySHP. It's simply a library that allows us to extract the shapes from the shape file. It contains a reader object that we can use to read the file. We can draw polygon with the create polygon method in Techinter. But as for multi-polygons, we cannot draw them. We can only draw polygons. So what we will need to do is to convert all the multi-polygon is actually just a set of polygons. And we will need to convert a multi-polygon into multiple polygons in order to be able to draw them. And to do that, we will use another library called when you use shapely, and you convert a shapefile multi-polygon into a shapely multi-polygon. It will actually make the multi-polygon iterable, which means it will have this double underscore iter function so that you can loop over the multi-polygon to yield all the polygons it contains. As I've said, shapefiles contain coordinates defined as a longitude and a latitude. And if you look on this slide, you will see that these are angles. But when we draw polygons in a software, in a canvas, we cannot use angles. We need pixel coordinates. So we will have to make some kind of conversion from angles to pixel. This is actually a conversion from 3D to 2D because we have a point on the Earth. And we need to have a point on a plan. And this is what we call a projection. So there is a mathematical theorem by Gauss that basically says that if you make such a projection, like you have a sphere and you want to project this sphere on a map, it's called the remarkable theorem, then you will lose some information in the process. There will be what we call a distortion. It could be a distortion of distance, of angles, of shapes, any distortion. But we will lose some information. For instance, if we consider the Mercator projection, it preserves angles, but it doesn't preserve areas. In order to make that projection to convert 3D coordinates to 2D coordinates, we will use another library called Pyproj. It's a library where you can choose a type of projection. It could be Mercator, or it could be azimuthal orthographic, like you see on this slide. And we will convert a longitude and a latitude into pixel coordinates. So if I sum up, we need a grid programming framework. We will use TakeInter. Inside this framework, we will need to use a widget to draw polygons, TakeInter scanVas. We need a file that contains the coordinates of the map, a shape file. We'll use PySHP to read the shape file. We'll use ShapeLy to convert multi-polygons into polygons. And we'll use Pyproj to convert geographic coordinates into projected coordinates. So OK. OK. I will open a Jupyter notebook to show you how it looks like. So this first code shows you how to initialize TakeInter main window and how to initialize a canvas. And finally, how to use a createPolygon method in order to create the polygons. If I start this code, I will get this, which is like a graphical interface with a polygon. Finally, I have this snippet to show you how to use Pyproj. We need to initialize a projection. This EPSG code, like 3395, stands for the Mercator projection. Then I have the longitude and latitude of Remini. And I can use the Mercator projection to convert longitude and latitude into projected coordinates. And I can use this inverse equal true to make the reverse operation, which is convert projected coordinates into geographic coordinates. And if I run this code, I print the coordinates. We can see that we have the xy and longitude latitude. Then I show you how to use the shapefile reader and how to import shapely. So I have this local pass to a shapefile. And I will start with the reader object. I will extract all the shapes from the shapefile. And when I loop over the shapes, I will convert all of them into shapely shapes so that polygons are iterable. Like this. You see that I have this azat shape magic iter. And it returns true. So all polygons are iterable. And finally, this is the final code that shows you everything, how to start the kinter, how to give the local pass to the shapefile. I have this two projected coordinates function in order to convert longitude and latitude into projected coordinates. I will read the file, extract all its shapes. I will loop over the polygons, convert them into shapely polygons. And finally, I will use the createPolygon function. If I execute this code, I get this. It's very simple, but it's working. And I can improve it a little bit by I can change the projection here to have an azimutal autographic projection. I will create a circle with which radius is the radius of the Earth. And I will use takeInter file dialog so that when you run the code, takeInter will actually ask you to choose a file. And it will then draw it. So if I run this code, it asks me for a file. And if I draw it, I get this. So this is very easy to do in Python. As you can see, it only takes 30 lines of Python to get this result. So what I want to show now, if it works, it doesn't work. OK, so I will actually use this method in order to import a real network. I will import project. This network file contains a real network. It's actually one of the main French backbone. You will see in a few minutes. OK. So if I import this file, OK. So this is one of the main French network. It is made of about 350 optical switches. In case you're interested, these optical switches are Alcatelucent Photonic Service Switch, or PSS1830. So basically, if you are in France and you're trying to use internet with your mobile phone or with your computer, well, there is a chance that the signal you send will actually be transported over this network. Of course, if I wanted to do just visualization, I could use frameworks like I could use a Google Map API. I could use Geo Django, or I could use D3 also if I wanted to do it in JavaScript. But the reason why I want to use an actual software is that I can select some nodes. I can move them. I can delete them. I can create new nodes with a drag-and-drop system. So I can actually create a network. And I can look at the property of the node. For instance, if I put the IP address here, OK. Well, I can say like this node has this IP address. And once this is done, I can hopefully start an usage connection to the device like this. OK, so the device I'm using, you don't see it from there. But it's actually just here on the ground. It's a Cisco 1841. It's back. OK, so I'm connected to the router. There is a few things that I want to show you. The name of the router, it's called router 2. It's what you see on the left part right here. So this is what we call the host name. If I want to change it, what I need to do is to enter the configuration mode by writing configure terminal. And then type host name and the host name I want, for instance, Remini. And when I do that, you see that the host name, the left part, is changed to Remini. So what I'm going to do now, well, the idea is that if you have like 5,000 devices and you want to change the host name on all 5,000 devices, you cannot possibly log into all the devices like by hand and change the host name yourself. So you need to automate this process. And we can do this by using Python. So I will come back to my slide. Well, OK, so this is a slide. This is an overview of the network automation landscape, which is all the method you can use in order to automate the network. The first one is the one that network engineers have been using for many years. It's simply to connect to the device with a library such as Paramico. Paramico is a default library in Python to start SSH connections. But Paramico is very complicated to use. So network engineers have built other libraries on top of Paramico in order to make it easier for network engineers to automate. The two most famous libraries are NetMico and XCrypt. Finally, you have also the NetConf and Yang solution. NetConf is a network configuration protocol. And Yang is a modeling language that we use to shape the data that are sent over NetConf. This is standardized by the IETF. I don't want to spend too much time on this one, but just so you know, there was a talk at the last Python US in Portland about how to use NetConf and Yang. Finally, you can use OSS protocols like TL1 and SNMP with Python library to SNMP, which is called PySNMP. But SNMP is usually very complicated to use. You can also use configuration management tools. These tools originate from the DevOps world, but they can actually be used for network devices as well. So you have Puppet, Chef, Saltstack, HPNA. But you have also Ansible, which is the one that is gaining momentum at the time. And it's an open source Python project. And well, if it works, I will make a demonstration of how to use NetMico, XCrypt, and Ansible in order to change the hostname. So I will come back to the code. I will just explain what I would have done. What I wanted to do was to use XCrypt, NetMico, and Ansible in order to show you how to do basic automation. I'm not sure I can still do it. OK, I'm still connected to the Cisco device. You can see the hostname is Remini. And if I use XCrypt, so the idea is that I must create an Acunt object in order to give the credentials to connect to the device. I must create a host object to give him the IP address of the device. And finally, I will send all the commands required to make that automation. So if I say hostname France, and I run this code in a new shell, you see the hostname was changed to France without having to log into the device. So if we had a lot of devices, what we would use is to multistread all the SSH connection in order to configure all the router at the same time. XCrypt allows you to do this by, if you loop over the IP address and you create host for each IP address, then you append them to a host list that will contain all the device that you want to run the script on. Then XCrypt will actually use multiple threads so that all SSH connections are done in parallel. And you have this max thread parameter here when you can say, I want at most five threads. You can do exactly the same thing with NetMico. You have this connection parameters dictionary that contains the credentials like username password, as well as the IP address of the device. You would use this connect handler to log into the device. And you will send all the command you need to send. So for instance, what I'm doing here is that I'm adding a description to the interface Fastet.Net zero slash zero and I'm also storing the result of show running config which is the configuration of the router inside a config variable. So if I run this script, it will take a few seconds. Okay, if I print config, I see that config contains the configuration of the router. And if I look at the interface, the configuration of the interface, I see that it has this description OSPF interface. That configuration was pushed with NetMico. I can also do the same thing with Ansible. By, I will start Siegwin. So the idea with Ansible is that you have a file called inventory. If I look at this file, you see it contains the IP address of the device you want to send the script to. And you have what we call playbooks. These are this file dot yml, yml files. You can look at one example here in order to do the same thing which is changing the hostname. So I will first give the credential to Ansible and I will then use the iOS config module. And this lines hostname Paris will change the hostname to Paris. So I can do that using Siegwin by writing Ansible playbook. I tell him that the inventory file is inventory and I change the hostname. Okay, as you can see it worked. The Ansible script was sent to the device and the hostname was changed. What I can also do is use the iOS command Ansible module in order to send the show running config command and then I will use copy to store this configuration in a file output dot text. I will also use Siegwin to send this one. So change hostname. Save running config, okay. And if I look at the folder, you can see that I have this new output dot text file and if I look at what's inside, it contains the configuration of my device. So, well, I had more things to show but I think we can stop here. Thank you. Thanks Antoine for the talk, questions. When you want to use commands that will require confirmation, like, I don't know, reload the router probably will... Yes, actually with X-Crypt, you should look at the documentation. I don't know if I have internet but if you look at X-Crypt documentation, you can tell when X-Crypt should expect a prompt that it does not recognize. For instance, if you connect to an Alcatel devices, sometimes it will ask you for yes or no, say yes to continue the login part and you can tell X-Crypt that if it says yes, then it should understand that the device is expecting something and that works perfectly. Maybe you have told us where have you got the data for the geographic representation from? Well, I took the shapefiles. I mean, the raw data, where did you get it from? The shapefiles, you can find them online. I just Googled shapefiles countries, our shapefile continents, about the data of the network. That's because, well, I work at the company that runs this network, so I did an XML query to the SAM 5620, which is a software that supervises the network in order to retrieve the topology. Hi. Hi. What are the best practices to map a lot of devices? Yeah, well, actually the tool I made, I wanted to show it, but because of the technical issues I couldn't, can do that, that was my next demonstration. If you have several devices like this, what you could do is, what I did is providing a graphical interface so that you don't have to cut anything, it's so graphical. I can go to script creation, and I can make a script change hostname. And then if I write configure terminal, and then hostname, you would like this part to be a variable, right? Is that your question? Yeah, let's say you have like a device. Yeah, so using this software, what you could do is like doing hostname, which means replace this part with the hostname value of the property of the device, and you can save this script. Then if you look at the properties, it will look for the hostname properties, and it will replace the value. And actually the hostname properties does not exist yet. So what I did is a way for network engineers to create properties on the fly, even if it does not exist. So I have a file called change hostname, and it contains the value of the hostname. And if I import this file like this, import hostname, you can see that the property, well, it doesn't work here, but you can see that you have new hostname properties, and it actually contains the value that is in the Excel file. And then what you would do is select all three devices like this, and then you click on send a script, you will choose a script, and for each devices, the hostname part would be replaced with the actual value of hostname for the node, you know? This is using X script. X script on the back. X script, but you could do the same using NetMico, and you could do the same using Ansible as well. And if you wanted to do this like in pure Python, you would just need to have a dictionary that maps, well, the IP address of the device to the value of hostname or whatever you want, and that would work too. The question was if you use some bolt or some secret storage, something like that, because actually those credentials in customer environment are very important. Ah, yeah, no, I don't use any secret storage, because it was just for a simple demonstration, and well, it's not like, but yeah, you would need to encrypt the data in a real network. Okay, thanks. More questions. So is there an Ansible interface for PyNMS? Is it what? Can you run Ansible scripts, whereas like selecting a few hosts and right click run script? Actually, I want to add that as a new feature, but right now I'm not like, I'm just working on Ansible, trying to make a useful Ansible script, and then when I get something that's working, I want to make PyNMS as a graphical interface for Ansible, so that you don't need to actually write the YAML file, you can do it graphically as well. More questions. Okay, no questions. So let's thank Antoine again. Thanks.