Okay Is it fine? Can you hear me? So nice to see you Okay, before I forget this is like my company request. Let me make a photo with you. You can smile, but it's not obligatory Best audience today It's really nice to be here. I arrived late 4 a.m rise from Romanian testing conference after two days of workshops and then my flight today is cancelled and No, that's me. It's like speaker somewhere. It's like red dots during FedEx Visual on okay, I Have long-hand I can I can catch it. Yeah, so once again, it's really great to be here Survived still alive. My life will be happy. I Will talk about IOT today like Funny thing is that I do not work with IOT anymore I spend like five years testing IOT devices, but I still do it on my own just for fun So that's one of the most interesting topics for me. Well, that's the thing I really like to do I really like to talk to people and If I will find like two or three people who really want to check on your own not even at the company after my speech That's perfect. That's that's that's my success my personal success. I hope and hopefully later You will find it's it's real fun because it's fun and IOT Is just growing and growing so yeah before we start Click click as I said, I am David before I started speaking quite frequently I was David. Now I can be less international. So it's David. I came from Krakow in Poland, which is pretty far. So my travel here was 18 hours And I was barely entered the country because I the funny reason I had no printed Virtual visa So that's the purpose of virtual visa. You have to print unless you won't be allowed to enter the country Okay, and but I'm here. So what I do at my free time. Actually, we have two initiatives it's Krakow a and before I spent sometime working in Ukraine and we and set up something called Ukraine QA and probably it would be different city. That would be something QA and Then my free time. I just travel like here and I like food, which is pretty dangerous to be here Like free Okay. Anyway, let's talk about food later Back to the topic. That's actually the story when I started. So when I started was 2012 and probably When you would ask someone what IOT is at the time Maybe 5% of people would say, okay, I can more or less say what it is Now if I would ask the same question, who of you can explain what IOT is still 5% Which is cool because it's still growing, but it's still unknown and it's not surprising for me That's still so little of you are Aware of that. So just just just just before I was in Chicago during the conference and because it's like Market for most technological companies. There were more people aware of what IOT is But still it was much much below 30% but it's really not a lot. Which is not a lot. Which is surprising If you know how many devices we have on the market, but about it in a minute Now IOT, that's the definition from Wikipedia And I would I like to explain in just one sentence Internet of things is exactly the same as we define internet, but for real devices So if you want to talk to your friend You have communication. You send message and maybe later if there is proxy in the middle It's transformed. It makes some action and so on exactly the same with IOT devices instead of humans You have hardware devices in the middle. So we can have bulbs in the cellar You can have lightning environment and those devices will communicate between each other if you have smart home and you have Temperature regulator and then you have blinders. So you can you can make it lighter and darker You can turn on both. You can you can dim it so much make it Lighter and darker Everything can be connected and talking to each other. So that's exactly how we communicate how we use internet And that's the same for hardware devices everything depends on implementation, but simply Explaining that's IOT. So we have devices communicating between each other's Sending messages and then making some actions based on that message. And that's how I see it because IOT Because it's internet still internet is not only about hardware communicating between between each other But communicating with normal internet as well. So very often you have IOT devices connected with social medias There are many funny items. I worked for the company doing cameras for pets So now just before the speech and before I split my coffee I played with my cat, you know, because I'm here. So my cat is alone and and sad So I just turned on camera and then play with laser just to let him run Which is funny and this IOT Actually the market internet of pets is super funny, but this is different in different topic So that's how it's connected you you can have many challenges. There is Mechanism implemented. It's called gamification. So you can have the same devices I don't know smart month and who of you Just made more steps during the day. Yeah, or you can make the challenge Which is quite risky if you play with women Who lose more weight, right? And that's pretty common as well because you have smart way This is data from 2016 and there was 6.4 billion and it's pretty reliable source because it's Gartner Just one later. It was 8.4 It was 2016 Sorry 17 last year it was over 11 and this year is not ended, of course But it's predicted to be like up to 15 in it till 2055 Should be at least 25 billion devices so or more and more devices are connected And what is the reason well actually because small small companies are doing prototypes Defining technology and so on and then if it's successful big companies are buying those small companies and producing own devices. There is nice implementation. It's got is done by Philips, which is called now Philips Hue before it was just device now is separate company and then they they install 50,000 of devices and stadium arena It's pretty a lot Now what is that that the General picture is very simple. So we have and user Very often like 80% using mobile device because we want to be mobile We do not want to open a web page every time we have to just open application On the other side, we have hardware whatever it is like sensor bulbs cameras for pets And some somewhere between you have back-end processing data Sending data gathering because because of so many devices. There is a lot of data So big data here is nice topic to to think about as well And you have different ways of communications So it can be without any limit like Wi-Fi or limited by Distance like Bluetooth or ZigBee and so on Which is better? Actually, there is no good answer because it depends on the purpose. It depends on the context Bluetooth for example is Great if you do we are talking about smartphone so we can control only if you are inside You don't want to allow someone from outside you want to keep security If it if it relates to camera security camera, then probably Bluetooth is not the best option Yeah, being in range of Bluetooth, which is like 50 meters to a preview camera Well, I'm like now seven thousands to probably it's not for Bluetooth So that's simple picture. That's how I see it and that's how actually 100 of devices works If you if you think about single device now Why there are so many challenges and why it can be so interesting in terms of of testing Do you know the the the the actually idea of iceberg? So there is usually it's like, you know coaching You have one that 10% above which is success and below you have sacrificed hard work And so so at the top here We have something that the customer see and usually it's mobile application and some functionalities to Set up Actually your environment your home environment or external environment so very simple UX is the clue here to make it as simple as possible Ideal IoT device is the one that you can give to your grandma and you do not have to explain how to do it But below you have hardware. So all that stuff that must be Design developed and tested and then you have firmware. So who knows what firmware is Okay, more people than about IoT. So firmware is basically software on hardware Which means that we test the same thing software but in terms of integration with as it with hardware, so we have two levels like firmware itself and firmware of hardware now that's What I what I said before that small companies are trying to get to the market very very very fast very quickly And because of that, it's pretty painful because time to market is the clue It's not about perfect quality. It's about quality good enough for the customer or good enough for your investor But it's about functionalities. So that's slightly different approach slightly different different world And because of that, there are many challenges that some major companies Don't really have At first it's lack of time because you have always deadline. Yeah, you have meeting you with your investor or you have It's Yeah, about it later to a lot of time that causes you are missing many of basic Information and many of basic approaches that should be done Actually documentation that's something I have seen eight years ago last time and Till that time I worked for three different startups and there was no documentation So in that case for example, we need to find a way to make documentation as a side effect Of something there is no time for for documentation the same with tests You need to focus on one area to speed it up or use the tool that should allow you to speed it up And not enough testers actually when I joined there was always one person and about hundred developers And then at first there was always my Like really I was really proud of that person Wow, just revived with all those people and just just doing testing now because no one wanted to do it and it's like, you know Changing mind with 100 people who have never tested there's one person if one person can click it Why do I need someone else and it's it's it's never ending fight Now I'm fighting with that again. So we have two people Then even driven development. I Don't know if there is such name, but I call it even driven Which means you provide it you want to provide some functionalities to write to the event See, yes, it's it's I think the more the biggest one technological one in us Or to investor because in their stories waiting if he or she or the company wants to spend money And the last thing very very very chaotic environment and frequently changing environment because Customers the king in that case without customer, which usually is investor We can do nothing because we have no money to survive We have no business model. We are not the company who can earn money Like big enough or even at all to cover our employees So that's how we have to work those are rules we need to follow now I I You have a pretty small but Basic picture how the industry really works and I think even if the if in IOT will be more popular And instead of like 5% there will be 50% who can explain the approach to work at that companies won't change and For now, let's focus on one simple scenario because I'm actually does a use case or case study We need to study something Let's imagine scenario and we have two bulbs one switch and the scenario is like that We create network with them and at first we want to use switch and then mobile app already servers Yeah, it's mobile app. So I click and my bulb is turned on or off and then I do the same using switch Because from one side we have customer and hardware endpoint And then we have hardware hardware, which is like the real IOT communicating devices communicating between each other The scenario flow So at the top you have all Steps presented before closer activities. I mean for example, we talk about Selenium We talk about opium is closing drivers is clean environment is Disabling camera, which I will show later because we need to capture it means somehow and so on before we have flashing and flashing means The same as up installation just for hardware. So we need to somehow deliver the software Then we have a configuration and finally we can execute our test suite in that case is just one Once with one test case and from that flow still it's pretty fine. It's pretty simple We have three steps and then we have some pre activities Then that might be simple. Well, when you start thinking about the whole concept What is below it became more and more Challenging and that's my story from the very beginning when I started Now the only difference is I realized that's challenging And still a lot of problems and I know I won't solve them very quick At that time. I didn't even know that So what are the challenges just just the main ones to not get too deep into details at first? We need to somehow deliver that So that software to hardware. So something we called firmware for application We have mobile app, right and we inject that application. That's that's fine for For web we just deploy right if something went wrong in a couple of seconds We can river even for desktop application is fine Because we just install and if something goes wrong in worst case We ask the customer to uninstall and install again And that's my case from like two weeks ago with another IOT company for hardware if something goes wrong. Well That's pain because you cannot do anything Because you have no access you want we want to make our devices wireless So how to connect to them then how to test in that case The second thing how we want to how we can control our buttons So the scenario is using mobile application as a one Action, but we have switch which is the second action For mobile app probably a lot of you would solve the problem, but like we just trade test automation We can use APM or any other tool just to communicate But later we do the same just using hardware how to navigate How to check if there if our bulk really changed the color again if we have mobile app we can Find the element and check the status if it's on if it's off if the color is proper but the status in mobile app doesn't have to be the same as the real behavior and How to combine all those results and much more into a single one how to process them and how to create our Single point single logic to aggregate and then say if it's working or not and Of course much more. I just put four to not Discarge you to try later because that's not the purpose of this speech And when I think about areas that should be covered Like probably half of them are known for you But the second half is something you would have to invest you'd have to learn on your own mostly connected with electronics and I Like my knowledge about electronics was I think more or less the same like yours about IOT now So not very high. I was just ambitious. Maybe too much So later why and why why why that happened? But really if you will talk about automation and just before and there was a speech about coach potato So there was about Raspberry Pi and that's perfect to Control because we have physical input and outputs not just software but otherwise we do exactly the same Okay, so my impression was that must be easy at first. There is no water away This is what I as a customer and guy joining the company see just both and mobile app click turned on click turned off Okay, that's fine, but then start it like breaking down into smaller pieces. Well, it's not really like that However, the most important thing which I learned and now doing Fourth time in a row is to start with the good approach because you will have 100 people who have never tested or Were forced to invest into quality There is no chance you can do it on your own because you do not have to enough capacity. So at first Try to find the common methodology Well, usually it's one product But different areas can be mobile app. It can be hardware team firmware team. It can be Front and back end But probably all of them follow different Strategies and then for us for you as a testers or DevOps It's very hard to capture. It's very hard to catch catch with them and be on the same page Then facilitate process. So that sounds like definition of scrambler there, but it's not it's more about I would say a guy leadership Which is not really about IOTR, but unfortunately, that's the usual small company If not small, then surely dynamic one. So you need to invest your time in facilitating processes Then automation tools freedom I suppose there is never Good enough automation At the beginning even if there is there are many many other things to start and it shouldn't be you shouldn't be forced to do it You should be able to investigate to find the time to make mistakes And just learn on them. Of course, if you do the same mistake twice or three times then me as a CEO with fire you but If you have just one mistake That's perfect. So Personally, I always I always encourage my team members to make mistakes because then we have quick feedback that Okay, this approach won't work. Let's try another one. We can quickly react Then comes consider architecture which is like obvious for developers Or at least it should be but very often it's not brainstorming session as a Approach as a tool to generate ideas Because my assumption is that most of the people have know A lot of experience working because it's pretty new Pretty New area and team autonomy Just to feel free to make those mistakes and then learn from them Now that's a big picture of automation. So we have something I got called master scheduler. It can be whatever and What you should remember from that As you see, there is a cloud at the top and on the left. So that's how we want to follow Put into the cloud everything because it simplifies it's cheaper and it's easier to maintain The problem with IOT is that you cannot put Hardware device into cloud. I mean you can buy that space Rocket, but it's not that cloud We want to send our software or hardware So it must be stored at the company somewhere. We must have something like laboratory and then if our communication protocol Is not wi-fi only we need to have mobile devices at our laboratory as well So farm devices of farm of mobile devices Well, not really if you want to use bluetooth and our hardware is at the company Then our mobile phone have to be at the company as well So those two areas unfortunately and Whatever Will be done like the world Evolving like more intelligence more artificial intelligence machine learning and so on You just cannot send hardware to To amazon and say that say them those guys Did you turn on the device and another mobile phone to be in range of bluetooth? Well, that's that's not the best approach So that's really work to remember any IOT devices Must be stored locally and that's how pipeline Simplified pipeline can work so We have two places when it can be triggered. So the earliest one Is something I call I called core build core is just It's a firmware core is the basic logic on our On our hardware why it's separate? Because then we have functional logic. So we can say to our led dial. Hey, just turn on And that's part of core, but then we have when it has to be turned on Well, for example, when the connection is lost with the internet The led should be red And so on so we have functions and we have core one is very low level the second one is On a much higher level of abstractions and it shouldn't be combined. It's like, I don't know if you are For lower or lower of that I'm talking about full stack approach It's really nice, but then you are missing the expert. So it's good to have someone that's connecting everything But for me having only full stack developers of the company is very risky And the same it's it's here. Then we have hardware devices connected somewhere at our company and it Triggered either by core or functional Pull request to our repository and then we run test and to run the build But at the same time we have mobile application if there is something to change in mobile application the same we're going to install app and execute not just mobile app Testing but the most important is integration with our hardware Because they communicate exactly. They must communicate at the same level That's why I said about internet of things are to Many hardware devices communicating between each others If one is changed the second must be able to understood it And the same if we change in hardware and then finally We can have some data parsing. We can have higher level of testing We can have integration or end to end or both of them. You just cannot skip Combining hardware with mobile app and it depends on time. It depends on the context But at least one of them integration that not end to end must be executed And then we have like normal process. We have some data that should be parsed We can come in we can connect with Our reporting system It can be kibana it can be uh Grafana, it's just the tool and connect it with our project management tool And as far as I know like at least 80 percent of uh companies are using Jira For some reason so it's it's global Now the question that uh was on our side when starting was if it's worth to automate well Considering everything that was before Is definitely worth I would say even it's must Because still um, I don't know if if if you have heard something like that But in Poland we say that every good specialist can be exchanged by finite number of students uh That's not the best approach and For us it's super funny, right because you can just bring students but It won't work. You can you don't want to make repetitive work like just turning on bottom. It's not the way automation At least for the major scenarios here is is the is the key um Now what are the requirements for our environment? Well at first must be cheap because we are start-up We are technological companies and we are waiting for looking for investors Um, then simplicity to do it fast. We have to do it simple So follow keys. Do you know keys rule from? Yeah from from from development side. It's exactly the same Then modularity. So we have three steps Let's try to Separate them into different areas and about it in a minute Scalability because there is a like we have 25 millions in five years So we need to scale it performance is a very important issue here and reliability We don't want to Have flight test like anywhere Now we have quick introduction done. Let's try to prototype. Let's try to write something and let's try to automate our test Um, let's model flashing and we have again raspberry pi as during the last speech and the clue here is We have one part at the in the corner Which is everything connected. We have debugger just to flash to send our firmware and we have our um Instance Somehow communicating with our hardware Uh, probably with cloud as well to pull the firmware to store it somewhere and then just push Firmware to the to the real device um One note here because I want to present you some thickened trips as well If you have device connected to 230 or 110 Let's remember as physics you don't want to lose your notebook our Fingers in worst case So try to isolate it and it can be very costful. That's the the lesson from from my history Remember about it now Switch control I said it's easy, but I was too ambitious That's something I did after two weeks Without any knowledge about electronics. They're actually learning everything from the scratch actually it worked and it was Real fun to do it. Uh, what was wrong? Well, then I discovered I can order something like that from ali express paying like three dollars Exactly the same more consistent more reliable because no wires So that's that's that's my uh another tip If you want to solve something just try probably there is something similar on the market and you can customize to your purpose Uh regarding software We have inheritance of the the following class. That's the best approach and that's for most of the hardware devices So we have bits and bytes Setting some some outputs and that for belt. For example, it can be turn off and turn on it's binary one Binary zero then We have releasing time so we can deem it can be lighter or darker And that's another layer of of abstraction and then having that we can easily control our logic For example, if we want to make factory reset There is some special sequence to not allow the customer to do it by accident and that's another layer What's important because it seems obvious. Well, we still operate on hardware device And at first we have gpio which are physical outputs. So we need to remember that we are somehow bounded by by physics And the third thing which is vision system. We want to capture the real behavior So we have both we want to know if it's red or green and so on and we have mobile app to turn on Turn off actually changing the state of our hardware device That's dirty cheap approach And Do you know what is gtpr? Is general protection? Yeah, exactly Unfortunately, we have it. So I'm not allowed to probably personal data So this is gtpr improved Now for us the main goal was to make it simple to implement and again make it scalable Make scalability very easy to maintain So the idea was to prepare matrix with devices inside and then just split it into Many parts This is another Cheap approach. I think there is logitech Internet camera somewhere because we didn't need really Something better Then hood and then we have the image Actually, why there is the black hood because we want to have unchanged environment if there would be like sunny day Or clouded day. We would have very flaky tests. We need to isolate our environment. That's just like it's like docker for software We want to make our isolated environment And That's another Trap I made that was my expectation So I trigger signal I gather matrix value of matrix for example If I have nine of them and then I get an output Well simple as that. Well in reality that was more like that It's image processing. So have you ever worked with image processing? any of you Yeah, so it can be painful like really painful And that was very helpful Surprisingly for me later because one of the the products except for like laser for cuts That was treat launcher. So you had like pet cookies and it was thrown into the air like to let your pet be really happy about being fit And we put just camera And then checking if trees were really launched. What is the vector? What is the speed and so on and it was still for testing So that knowledge Well, for some reason Really surprisingly was Useful for me later. And that's why I mentioned here because you never know one one tip here just be careful about parameters for the camera what I found out if you have physical device if you want to As we do have separate the environment Like docker for example container when you create the new one everything is reset it somehow or you can just Disconnect and connect again your camera everything will be changed again So just be careful. It's very often the reason of flakiness Now we have implemented our free items and somewhere in parallel, of course, we have mobile up testing Which I didn't mention here because it's probably the Something that most of you know But we cannot forget about it about the customer point of view So it's brainstorming session is the output from brainstorming session Now what is important? Well by thinking about this simple scenario just turn off and turn on We were able to by using those small components like vision system like Switch controller and so on created much more complex use cases like really from the customer perspective Okay, I want to turn on but then my wife came and said I want to have it pink because that's my Internal feng shui and then someone came and said I want to sleep and just turn it off Like scenario turn it on using switch and turn it off using mobile device. It's not real scenario. It's just to check Simple functionality, but again having them it's much easier to create another And that's Road view of the implementation. So we have four small blocks just to Like lego bricks to join them together Three of them I mentioned and mobile app with some capabilities That you know probably what are covered capabilities or you surely know you are at apium conference, right? Now let's create scenarios now. Who of you is familiar with behavior driven development approach? Okay, it's given when then right Well, I was never the lover of that For very long now it changed. So like two days ago in inclusion in romania I did bgd workshop because like I changed my mind slightly but here The very good approach if you make it smart is that using Just more tdd approach You can easily write it in a way that are that is easy understandable to understand what's going on here in test Well, we just make factor reset to make everything clear like clear environment clear setup Wake up our switch then add device and check if it's a bit Simple, right? I joined the company. I'm the new employee I have now one who can explain me what's going on here But I understand because I can easily read it The same here we can reset bluetooth model Then we can wake up our switch then add device find it And make factor reset again And the last one is just sharing our setup using Gmail or google drive and here is everything clear now. What happens if we have more something like that? Well, probably you have to spend some time reading it and there is No 100% of certainty that you will understand it and here What can help you? Is bdd now when you read it, I will give you like 30 seconds. It's much more understandable. What's going on here? We have some associations We have some channels on the switch and we have some real behavior of our bulb and reading that that is really simple What is what is nice in terms of coding moving from the previous step Like having this to this approach, which is much more readable Is not it is not very costful You have all the steps prepared because you made steps here You just add another layer of abstraction. So I suggest if you have something complex It doesn't have to be for everything but for things that are hardly understandable You can use another approach bdd is not the only one, but that's what I found out very helpful Now Let's set up our environment set up the final one So in the middle, we have something combining all those results like input from Bob's Controlling switch and so on then we have mobile apps here. We have cloud Sharing both firmware and mobile app and then we have Like further steps with our pipeline like continuous delivery approach So communicating with another environment like builders deploying Maybe maybe sending some data to JIRA and so on but Under the line with Tesla result is the physical environment. So we have phones. We have raspberry pies. We have switches And that's the output that's kind of dashboard to make it more colorful because Jenkins is pretty rush rough and like very hard to Encourage product owners or product people to look at it If you have more colors With your office in the background then okay, I can look at it and all it is red and then finally make some reaction So we have that automation we have one scenario that we started Thinking about at the beginning and as a result we get the environment that can be easily scaled too much More complicated from one side and much closer to the real user behavior Well take a ways I have four minutes for take a ways. That's great. The first one think at but think big But at small and that's how we started. So we have Just iot environment some lighting industry, but then when you start breaking it down You think in smaller parts How should I implement my vision environment? How should I control my switch? How should I handle installing firmware? And so on so that's what I what what I mean by think small By think smear by think big but act small now One of the first sentences I said today Encourage your people to make mistakes Without that you are not able to deliver solution quickly just Remember to not repeat it again the same the same thing especially in terms of 230 volts repeating it is like 5k dollars Approximately from my experience When everything explodes But it's different story. It's more fun What it depends who are you talking to if it's your boss or cco? And it's not fun when you talk about it like during the conference. This is more fun Unleashed in creativity Brings on obsession for example, this is just one of the mechanism. You can find the answers There are like hundreds of ideas find two or three of them useful. That's enough. You can speed up Focus on interoperability Now we have android and is like almost 5050 We have mac and we have windows Maybe not 5050 but still we have quite Equally distributed think about it in terms of Implementation of test environment. We are not focused on For example, google chrome only modularity You have your lego bricks Think about scenario and just join them build your tower Oh, actually tower is not really stable. So I don't know build your tank has better protection Risk-based testing who's familiar with that? Okay. I really encourage you to Get deeper into that because what's important and it's not for iot only is for my current company as well if you have hundreds of scenarios You want to somehow choose what is worth to automate because actually you can automate everything But is it worth? Well, not really. It's good to find what is the the balance between the risk and the value we can achieve For iot is even more important because we have not three levels of testing But five or six of them So it's not just for iot and I encourage you to check it Maybe it will be useful for you and if not then you have knowledge during Maybe it will be useful doing another interviews. Who knows physics iot is about physics. You just need to remember. Oh, who likes physics? Wow, that's good. So that's for you Now I like before I I didn't really Just have it keeping in mind Then iot is hardware. We're just physics as well. So there are slightly other risk. There are slightly other factors uh, you just need to know And the most important thing Security and I said nothing about it. Why because it's the topic for another couple of hours I have no time to give some examples unfortunately, but I encourage you to just google security iot and then you will get a lot of nice examples what went wrong And that's it. Thank you very much. If you have any questions, just reach me here because I have applied in like four hours So, yeah better catch me online. Thanks We would not have time for questions. We'll have to


The study presents a strategy to design and evaluate high entropy alloys, HEAs, for structural use in the transportation and energy industries, using pallets of elements chosen to meet target properties of each HEA family and methods to build HEAs from these pallets. The study shows that intermetallic phases are consistent with HEA definitions and includes both single phase, solid solution HEAs and HEAs with intentional addition of a second phase for particulate hardening. A thermodynamic estimate of the effectiveness of configurational entropy to suppress or delay compound formation is given and a three-stage approach is suggested to systematically screen and evaluate a vast number of HEAs using high throughput computations and experiments. Key components such as materials libraries with microstructure gradients and high throughput tensile testing are currently missing and suggestions for future HEA efforts are given. This article was authored by Daniel B. Miracle, Jonathan D. Miller, Oleg N. Senkov and others. We're article.tv, links in the description below.


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en part. This is what I've heard most of the discussion so far. We talk about automated vehicles and how much data they will exchange with each other. This is also quite interesting business perspective because this is probably at least for a few years it will be the driver sorry the car maker that is staying for the business part and for the charging. In a longer perspective the green and the blue part are going to become the same thing because the autonomous vehicle will be safe so there will be clearly both the public and the private interest in the same type of connectivity. So just a final few words going slightly more technical. What is 5G and it's much more than that but just to give a few hints. So first of all it will be a new radio and core technology and they do not even need to be upgraded the same time there are many flavors there. So I will not go into all details here but that's the key to enable a much larger bandwidth much more throughput much lower latency if needed. And these are one key to push down the prices we have already heard the price per bit has historically gone down more than 10 times every 10 years and this trend will probably even increase in 5G. Second point the ecosystem scale so 5G includes sensors things you know billions of devices and the cars are nothing that else that one of these devices. So it's the 5G can be seen as a glue to have really scalable ecosystem where the same or similar chipsets and solutions and same networks are used to support all these kind of different use cases. So you can take advantage of these huge investments and on the technology innovations but also to push down the prices with more scale. And I think I have time to go through all the details I will just mention the security aspect here is very important. Of course I mean using having an operator with a SIM card is a person and an enabler of security there is a trusted relationship on the connectivity with encryption. In addition to that when we talk about autonomous vehicles of course the security is really important so for example we just announced last week a cooperation with Argus which is part of a continental group. Where we're looking at solutions where for example from a cloud with AI the vehicles can be monitored and if any strange behavior is detected then basically the network takes over the control or there is some corrective action. So really 5G is also enabling a lot of new opportunities to make the road safer from that perspective. It was a very short summary of what I wanted to say. I'm happy to answer more questions if there are later. Thank you. Thank you Stefano. And as for our next speaker it is my pleasure to introduce you to Johannes Springer. He is the program lead of 5G at Deutsche Telekom Johannes. Thank you Manuela. Welcome. I'm happy to be here to be the last speaker. I want to make it very short because we are working also very closely together in the 5G end you will see from some of the slides maybe some of the overlaps of the information. But I want to maybe pick out some important things which I haven't heard so far this morning or want to clarify a little bit also from our understanding as a network operator what's going on in industry. So that is a matter of fact and as Lukas said we as operators are operating let's say millions of cars which have already a network link into their car. And that network link is used for a variety of purposes. Security is of course one thing. Security in a car without a network link is from our understanding is not existing. So you need something where you can get access to the car out of a back end to make some software updates to make some security updates to make bug fixes and all these kind of stuff. So security without a network link is not possible. And also what we had today in the introductory speech from Jean Tott about safety we should mention that the network today provides a very good fundament for safety related purposes even between car manufacturers and between different car vendors. And it is used in millions of cars. So we have these kind of let's say extension of local sensor coverage that one car which detects a certain hazard on the road transmits this hazard via a back end infrastructure down to other cars. And that is a matter of fact which exists today in millions of cars. Maybe the car manufacturers should talk a little bit more aggressively to that. It's informational safety. Yes, it's not automatic safety breaking or something like that. But it creates a huge benefit. And if I take another example here in especially in Europe, we have a clear agreement between all the car manufacturers that this kind of safety related information will be exchanged. And is exchanged between the different car manufacturers. And of course it makes not only a societal benefit, but also a benefit for the single customer. So this is a matter of fact that is a reality. As I said, tens of millions of cars worldwide are using this technology. It's not only a matter of fact for the cars, but also for the customers who are sitting in the cars and maybe they are using a separate subscription for that. So there is not definitely the need to have let's say one subscription in a car for those two different purposes. It can be split via split billing or via different subscriptions, different merges with already existing contracts. If you look into the future, this picture will be extended of course by one technology we have mentioned several times this morning and that is a 5G. It will extend it by a 5G new radio which brings additional benefits in terms of capacity and in terms of latency. Is it needed for a variety of use cases which we have discussed this morning? No, it's not needed from our perspective. 5G new radio is important for some of the use cases might be important. Is it important for a variety of services? No, it's not needed. 4G as a radio interface provides and 4G the acronym for that is LTE long term evolution in itself says there is a still ongoing improvement process on the radio interface even for the LTE which improves the capacity which improves the latency. We are receiving today or achieving today latency round trip times of 120 milliseconds between one car back end and another car. 120 milliseconds can be achieved with LTE. Is that sufficient for a variety of services? Yes, it is and it is used by the car manufacturers. Nevertheless, the 5G new radio will bring additional benefits. But in the 5G world the new radio the access technology between the car and the cell infrastructure is only one part of the 5G family. So the whole cut M narrow band IOT which was mentioned also earlier is one additional important part to bring or to include additional infrastructure along the road into the whole mobility network infrastructure. The peer to peer communication as was presented this morning by Jason Qualcomm the whole direct communication mode between the cars and between infrastructure or even also between pedestrian cyclists will bring additional benefits. And again, is this a technology which will come with 5G? No, it's already there. It's a 4G radio which works with a 4G radio interface between the cars between the infrastructure between cars and pedestrians. What is also very important in that communication scheme is that we as network operators are improving our networks more and more by software-rised functionality. So we are bringing let's say data center infrastructure implementing data center infrastructure within our networks and we will leverage this data center infrastructure also for other purposes for third party applications. And what we have seen this morning as well a variety of applications will produce a lot of data will need short latency and will need high availability and this kind of mobile edge computing infrastructure will be also a very important part of the 5G technology family. Will the mobile edge computing work together with a 4G radio access technology? Yes, it will. So it has nothing to do the mobile edge computing has nothing to do with a 5G radio access. It will work also together with a 4G radio access technology. And we had a very nice example on this morning from GM with this very nice car from Sudan. Thanks for your presentation. And we had an important topic which has nothing to do with communication as such but with positioning. And we as mobile network operators are providing decentralized infrastructure with cell towers who know their real position which can be used and which are used in a variety of projects right now as GNSS reference stations. We have already the mobile network infrastructure as a distribution channel. We have decentralized compute power to create high advanced correction models, the French GNSS correction models. We can create out of our mobile network connection an additional path of producing a position and can therefore use it for position integrity functionalities to avoid spoofing to create an enhanced level of position accuracy calculation in the car. Which is also a very big threat maybe we have even in the afternoon the ability to discuss about that. So position and precise positioning is also an additional functionality we will provide as mobile network operators out of our network. This part of the 5G family is a 5G radio needed for that. No it's not needed it works with a 4G radio. So all of this is part of a 5G family. So it's not only about the 5G radio it's about how to integrate customer connectivity in the best and affordable way. How to leverage the CV2X direct communication which works without any kind of cell tower in a mode 4 operation. So also of course in those areas where we don't have coverage and where we cannot provide coverage. We have the narrowband IoT and the CAT-M. We have the quality of service and the network slicing is a very important technology which was mentioned. Especially when it comes to functional safety aspects where the network is definitely needed. We have the mobile edge computing and the broadcast. We have the precise positioning. So this is in a bunch what we understand behind 5G. It's in the standardization process. Some of the technologies are already standardized already in the market. So as Stefano has said it's an evolutionary process and step to get these things into the market. And these capabilities, these functionalities from a network perspective will fulfill the requirements of the car manufacturers. So thanks for your attention and I'm happy and looking forward for the discussion. Thank you. Thank you Johannes. So I'd like to do things a little different than this morning. I'd like to monopolize the conversation. Take over the Q&A. Now I've prepared a few questions for you gentlemen and if time permits we can take one or two questions from the audience as well. But let's take to the topic of alternatives. There's a big debate in the industry around 5G and DSRC and some car makers go for DSRC. Others are committed to 5G. We also see the consortium of 5GAA and we see Volkswagen on that list but they're also committed to DSRC. So what are your thoughts on that? Is there an alternative or is there a collaboration? So maybe you can start and then I'd love to hear also from James from Williams what your thoughts are. Thanks. I think obviously this was I guess inevitable that we should be talking about this topic again. So it's not a debate between 5G and DSRC. It's a debate between the technology that we're developing within the 3GPP standards that gives you this direct mode of communications. Because that is intrinsically part of a family of technologies that includes LTE and the evolution of LTE includes new radio. And it gives you a much more comprehensive suite of capabilities with a direct very dynamic link into how the industry develops technologies for smartphones. So that's what's compelling in terms of the radio interface technology. You're comparing something that's been invented on the back of LTE and standardised only a year ago compared to a technology that was born maybe 12, 15 years ago. So it's inevitable that as time has passed there are better ways of being able to undertake those physical layer capabilities. But it does have some performance advantages which are definitely significant. But the most compelling aspects I would say is that it's part of a much bigger piece of technology platform that allows us to work together with automotive and ICT to create a much more compelling way of connecting cars and people in future. Alright, thank you. Thanks. I suppose for my point of view to go back to a slightly racing example, we only make forecasts around the circuit. We do help a lot of other automakers make their own products, their new products in the future. I suppose for us the sort of learning from motorsport is to always pick the correct technology for the purpose you want. It's absolutely agnostic as to what that is. It's about picking the right solution for the right applications. Although I possibly would have a note of caution in motorsport Formula One teams aren't renowned for being able to work together collaboratively because we all want to win. If we go through the Geneva Motor Show next door there's a lot of automakers out there that want to win as well. So in a world to assume they're all going to collaborate with each other, share all their data and work completely in the same is probably a little bit ambitious but we'll see on that front. Good. Anyone else in the panel that has some comments around DSRC versus 5G? Johannes? Maybe one argument what we discussed intensively and especially also in the 5GA is, as Lukas said, we have a 15 years history in the cycling technology in the 11P stack and it never came into market. And the question is at the end why? Why does it take so long to put a certain technology into the market? And the answer to that is it is a cycling technology which needs of course a penetration rate in the market if it makes sense, until it makes sense. If you have only a few cars in the market you will not find a communication partner for that technology. So the question of penetration rate and creating a critical mass is a very important topic for that. So how to achieve or how to overcome this chicken and egg problem? And there we think that from a 3GPP or from a mobile network operator perspective we can bring a lot of added value into that ecosystem because as I said we have already millions of cars, tens of millions of cars which are already equipped with cellular technology in there. And if the PC5, if the cycling technology is a let's say add-on which can be achieved only with very small incremental costs, this would create the mass market and would solve the mass market problem because the technology will come anyhow because it's highly integrated in the technology family. And that is the reason why we strongly believe from a network operator perspective that this is the right way to go. Even that we know because it's a free spectrum, the 5.9 GHz spectrum, it's a direct communication mode, we will not earn money out of that as a mobile operator. But what is our interest as a mobile network operator is we want to put out this or kick out this uncertainty, how to bring this certain technology and use case class into the market. Just one final point on that because it's not, whilst we can have a big battle royal between the two technologies, I think what we've established with the reports that have been issued already is that if you simply allow the two to be deployed, we've shown that they can coexist together quite peacefully. So you don't need to have a super aggressive policy to kick the other guy into touch, you just let the two technologies get deployed and the benefits will accrue in the way that I believe have been modelled very, very well. So it's the wrong question to ask in some ways, I think we're just going to go and do this. That's the right attitude. Good. So regarding the time to market, I think Stefano you mentioned you are already having some products on 5G quite late this year. Is that still the case? Is that a general consensus in the panel? When will we see 5G come to market? 2020, end of this year and how do you move from tests and proof of concepts to production? We will bring 5G into the market by the end of this year starting of next year with some of the technology which I have shown. So most likely it's not the new radio because it's now right now in the standardization process and the technology is under feasibility studies and we have a lot of tests about that. But with the other type of technology like mobile edge computing infrastructure as one of the components of the 5G family, this will be definitely in the market in the next year 2020, 2021. So this is an evolution process but let's say in terms of development cycles for the automotive industry, it's tomorrow. So yeah, just to add to that, I think at the risk of repeating some of the comments we made earlier, but I think it is important to understand this. 5G can't be defined just by the 5G new radio. When we look at what constitutes 5G for many network operators and in fact by ITU colleagues when you start looking at what 3GPP are submitted, which is a collection of radio interface technologies which includes LTE advanced and new radio and some of the capabilities already exist such as narrowband IoT, CATM, these are all part of the 5G stability technologies and some of them are available now. And we'll continue to bring new capabilities into the network at the pace that's demanded by customers in order to be able to fulfill and deliver solutions that require those technologies to be deployed. So we're very kind of neutral on how we deliver these things, it's the what we deliver to customers that's important and that's why we're very much looking to use the combination of these technologies in the most efficient way possible to deliver that experience whether it's to a smartphone or to a connected car or anything in between. Right, Stefano go ahead. Yeah, thank you. Maybe I can add also you were asking about the trials and so I can say there's a huge interest in trials. What I learned when I started to work towards automotive is that differently from other industries, the automotive industry wants to try things before using them. They really want to, yeah, three times for at least, yeah. So, I mean, we really receive, I would say more than one trial request per week. It's crazy, it's really difficult to even handle so much request but I think it's indicative. More than one year ago, for example, with BMW and SKT, so in Korea, one of the operators there, we showed on a racetrack a 5G connectivity stable 3.5 gigabit per second at 170 kilometers per hour using this new radio technology. So at 15 gigahertz bandwidth, carrier frequencies are quite high up. In Germany, we have 30 kilometers of highway on the A9 together with Deutsche Telekom and Vodafone Germany and Telefonica in Germany. It's six sites where basically Ericsson has deployed a 5G core network with features such as slicing, which is one of those that Johannes was mentioning, also BMW and Deutsche Bandar. So what is interesting there, we have the railway and we show how these two different industries share the same network without basically disturbing each other. So they can get independent service level agreements that they negotiate with their operator and that's kind of guaranteed. So again, this links me back to experimenting with automotive, similarly to all the other verticals, how they can reuse the same network infrastructure. We're not deploying 5G only for automotive, we're deploying it for lots of verticals. Thank you. Andrew, I have a question. You've also mentioned the need of looking into business model and changing that. So what are your thoughts on business model? How are you looking at monetizing when these new technologies hit the market? Thanks. Well, I think it comes back to again looking at what is the right solution for the right application and then the right technology. We know that in the 3GPP and the European Parliament just recently mentioned this as well, that satellite is just one of the radio access technologies. So I think when we look at it and come at it from our perspective, we see again part of an integrated network working with terrestrial operators to help augment their networks and then looking at those technologies and applications. Does a technology that requires multicast or that would benefit from multicast make more sense to go over satellite? Generally, yes it would, but then how does that integrate into the rest of the network? Does it need to be real time or can it be delayed? There's a latency aspect, right? You wouldn't use satellite for vehicle to vehicle, but there's many other things that you would do. So I think we look at certain use cases and there's some very clear ones around Soda, Foda over the air updates and in terms of extending the network because in our mind as well, we're not just talking about delivering connectivity directly to a vehicle, right? We're also talking about how we extend the network into places where it might not be feasible to extend terrestrial and then delivering content out to the edge and that type of thing. So we're already looking at a number of use cases where we sort of integrate into the rest of the network and I think there's a lot of positive applications there. Any comments on business models and monetization? Stefano, please. Maybe to spice it up a little bit. Now we're talking. I respect your opinion. I must say I have a slightly different view regarding this. I guess no one here has the crystal ball to read the future. But I'm a bit skeptical to be honest about the role of satellites just for this automotive sector. I understand it for other segments. Let's put it like this. What I learned it when working automotive is how important it is with global solutions, with scalable solutions and also with time to market. And if we look at the way as of today, basically from a 2GP perspective, which is basically the body standardizing 5G, there is an initial study item about integrating satellites where we're studying the channel model. So we're basically very, very initial. It will take some years before we could potentially have a standard solution for integrating satellites and mobile networks. Until then, I think the main issue we have is coverage in real areas. This has already been mentioned. I don't want to take part in the debate exactly how bad it is or how good it is, but it's clear that in some areas we do have to improve the coverage. Now the question is, is it more also from a business perspective, is it more convenient to basically oblige the car makers to implement yet another technology in the vehicle, which is basically almost a single-purpose technology. And it's about an additional 10 for a specific band. It's about additional cables. It's about additional chipsets. So there is a significant cost. Or is it better to partner with the operators, together with the public sector, when the business case is not sufficient to enable a deployment in a real area to make this deployment more feasible? I mean, there are many ways or many tools that can be thought about to solve this coverage problem. For example, one of the main pain points for operators is the cost of a license. For example, recently there was an initiative in France where the 4G license was extended for free and in exchange of roadside coverage requirements on the operators. I think that's quite an interesting model. There have been similar initiatives even though with very different verticals in the US with AT&T. They received one frequency at 700 MHz from the government in exchange of delivering public safety services using their network and also with some coverage implications. For example, the road operators typically own fiber or, of course, the road infrastructure. So one of the main costs for the operators is actually the tower, the site. So that's clearly an aspect where we could think very simple partnerships could enable a coverage where today it's difficult to have. And then I think, naturally, the more we see the cars being more connected, the business of connected vehicles will increase for the operators. It will be more convenient to cover basically in every area. With this, I don't want to say that the satellites do not have an important role, but I just wanted to share my view in this specific automotive coverage case. I think we'll probably agree to disagree on that then. But I think you raised some very valid points about global coverage, about scalability, and these are actually areas where even today working with mobile operators have universal service obligations in many countries. And even you mentioned the United States where we're working very closely today with a number of the mobile operators to extend their networks into areas of the United States that, you know, a large developed country that don't have sufficient terrestrial connectivity and where it's not cost effective to extend terrestrially. And you mentioned business cases and it's precisely because they cannot close a business case that says, okay, we'll extend by fiber or we'll extend by microwave technology or what have you. Times will change, technology will change, there'll be innovation. So I don't look at this as a static thing. I look at it as a dynamic thing. But what I do see is that there is a very significant role because of some of those strengths that we have. But I don't see it operating in isolation in any sense. I see it very much as part of an integrated hybrid network. Great. We have about 10 minutes left. If you have anything else to add, any of you. Luke, go ahead. I'd like to open the floor to questions as well. I'm just reflecting on a couple of the comments made by colleagues on the side of me. Again, because I think it's useful to understand. So on the business case side for 5G and new radio, actually the most compelling case that we see as an operator right now is what sounds like the most boring one, which is increased efficiency and lowering the cost per bit because if you look at the fundamentals, you're taking what is today of an LTE carrier of 20 MHz. You could augment that with now a new radio piece of infrastructure, which gives you 100 MHz, five times as much. You add massive memory to it. It gives you another maybe times five, times four, times five multiple. So you're up to 20 times factor just by deploying that, which does naturally result in reducing the cost per bit and improving the efficiency. The massive thing that stops us from being able to jump on that straight away and say, this is the answer, this is how we're going to be able to provide a very, very good way of sustaining people's voracious appetite for consuming vast amounts of data is simply because in Europe, and as Stefano mentioned this, we do have to dig very, very deep into our pockets to buy spectrum enormous cost before we can even deploy a single base station. We don't often talk about it. It seems to be impolite in some circles to talk about this. I don't know why, because nobody benefits from this, apart from maybe the governments who are looking at gaining more indirect taxation revenue. But it certainly doesn't help the mission of us trying to connect to our customers. It doesn't help the infrastructure manufacturers trying to have the industry adopt the more efficient technology. And then it doesn't help customers either. So I just want to raise that, because I think it was mentioned a couple of times obliquely, and I didn't want our view on that to go unnoticed. Good point. Thanks. Just another different angle to monetization of the network and the business cases, as I've mentioned, of course, the data, right? Using the mobile network data, you understand the mobility, and specifically the automotive sector really needs that at the moment. There's huge change coming, specifically with Autonomous. The automotive sector wants to understand mobility as a whole, not just of their own cars, but of their competitors' cars, of other modes of transports. We've seen a slide from Toyota today about mobility as a service. Our belief at Theralytics is really that the telecoms can play a huge part there in making sure that the automotive sector makes right decisions. Those are very strategic decisions. Those are 10, 20, 50-year strategic decisions of billion-dollar companies on if they should start, for example, shuttle-on-demand services, or if they should start ride-hailing or car-sharing, free-floating, station-based, and all those decisions can also be aided by telecom networks, their data. That's a great point, Luciana, thank you. I think there's a question. Roger, and then we have another one from Curtis, and then we're going to close this section. Thanks. Roger? Yes, Roger Lonto with Strategy Analytics. So two questions. One, in the US we obviously have this conflict over 5.9 between CV to X and DSRC. I'm wondering if Europe has a similar conflict. There is already contention between the tolling network and DSRC, as I understand it. The other question I have is no one has yet talked about the requirement for remote control of vehicles that are operating autonomously, which I think is a pretty essential application for 5G. So could one of you comment on those two questions? Maybe starting with the easier one, the remote control. It's already there. We are doing a lot of tests, and especially with regard to the edge computing infrastructure, this is a very good tool to operate a remote control application, which serves teleoperated driving functionality in a certain area for certain purposes. So this is, I think, already there, and it will come very soon into the market for a variety of use cases. For the first thing, of course, we have this discussion on how to use a 5.9 gigahertz spectrum. We from the 5GA made a proposal on how to do it. Luke has said we have, I think, reasonable ideas on how these two technologies can coexist. And let's say at the end the market decide what is the better choice for creating or for solving this chicken and egg problem. With regard to the tolling industry, we have to face that we have already a 25-year-old technology in the 5.8 gigahertz spectrum with their sendious ACID transponders, which is very close to the 5.9 gigahertz spectrum. And, of course, there are a lot of, let's say, discussions on how to avoid interference between the 5.8 and the 5.9 gigahertz. And from a 3GPP perspective, from a, let's say, modem perspective, there is no problem, let's say, to design a system which makes sure that another system is not affected because filters and so on and so forth are very well designed. Qualcomm could make a nice talk to that. But from a DSRC perspective in the 5.8 gigahertz, we have to face that the total cost of ownership for a DSRC transponder is a very, very, let's say, sensitive issue in the business case of the tolling operators. So they are looking very keen of how intensively the usage in the 5.9 gigahertz spectrum will be. And I would expect that we will have very near future a lot of discussions about how to make sure that these two systems are not disturbing to each other on the one hand side and maybe it's also, let's say, a good time because it's a 25-year-old technology to think about how to create also positive business cases and models, as Stefano has said, in a collaborative effort between the tolling industry and the automotive industry. Because, you know, right now the only way how these industries are cooperating is that they are leaving some free space at the windshield that the DSRC transponder can be placed at the certain tolling station. You know, that's the only way these industries are collaborating based on, let's say, a geometric definition for placing a DSRC transponder. And maybe there are a little bit more intelligent ways how to bring the different technologies together. Maybe just so I'll tell that very briefly. It's interesting if you look at the global context as well. You mentioned the situation in the US, which is now far less clear-cut than people may have thought it was a couple of years ago. And I think there is a very valid debate happening around the choice of technology and making sure that the US doesn't lock itself into something which is a dead end. But if you look at what the decisions that have been driven in China as well, so we collaborate very closely with China Mobile and with the Chinese car OEMs and the Chinese transport ministry, they are making decisions now to go all in for the V2X in 5.9, which brings a very early and very welcome degree of tremendous scale already to the development of the devices, the chipsets, the infrastructure that puts this into a very, very strong position when it comes to the regions. So again, it's leveraging that global ecosystem with the same technology. For CV2X, cellular V2X, not 11P. I repeat, not 11P. I believe we are running out of time, but Curtis, you can reserve the last question. And then I saw other hands in the air. Yes, recognize that. It would be great if you can come and approach us after the panel. Thank you so much and sorry that we ran out of time. Well, Manuela, that was outstanding. You put together a great panel of, you know, very interesting speakers and as an automaker, thank you for the lively and challenging discussion. So as an OEM, I just see limitless opportunities for innovation and partnerships to solve real problems. So good job. My question's for Tara Lettix. So very interesting presentation. I see a lot of potential to use cellular data for strategy decisions and understanding better how our customers really behave. But my question's on access. You know, you can't do that work unless the MNOs actually grant you access to their packet cores and how do you do that? Well, that's what we do for you basically. So that's the model of Tara Lettix, is that we partner with MNOs across the world. We're currently active in the US, in Germany, in Hong Kong and Singapore, and we provide custom insights for the automotive sector, for example, both for a planning perspective but also for an operational perspective. So I mentioned the example of the bridge collapse in Atlanta, right? You have to, on a day-to-day or even hour-to-hour basis, you must change your operations as a both public transport operator and as an automotive operator. If you operate a TNC, for example, you have to understand what's the current mobility. And I think there's a lot more to come and the integration will only become more close between the entities, telcos, automotive. We've had remote control before as well, I think, in the future. We'll have a lot more optimized flow of people and goods in the world, starting with cities and also between cities. And so there will be more and more integration to come and we aim to play a key part in there. Thank you so very much. Well, thank you very much. Great discussion. And thanks Stefano and Donna Maria and I.T. You appreciate it. Thanks. Have a great lunch. Thank you. So lunch is being served outside. Thanks to our sponsors, DECRA, Qualcomm and Green Hills. Please come back sharp at 2.30, because we're going to start sharp 2.30. Thank you very much.


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I'm doing well Some finally ask how Donnie's doing Rookie refractor on Astros Jake Myers took four hours. Yeah, four hours in someone finally asked how Donnie's doing Fractor Randy Rosarena O'Neal Cruz O'Neal Cruz a blue refractor Randy Rosarena raise numbered 68 of 150 Maybe the empty box actually probably not even that Graham. Yeah, I think you're a little short We don't sell them, but I imagine someone's probably selling for more than that you might be able to buy the open pack Thank you, I appreciate that Wait Donnie's there yeah illegal He's only been here.  Oh, yeah, illegal is peak comedy. Oh, yeah, of course real Eddie Murphy over here in chat Aqua blue vapor Wilson Contreras Cubs 120 of 250 Wilson Contreras Thanks, Randy saying I'm Sam am I blowing kid? Can you still hear them like? Ricky refractor George Kirby Mariners And the chair hasn't made noise in a while if you can still hear anything Randy, I don't think I'm saying I wouldn't be able to hear in my left ear currently orange rookie say a Suzuki That's really nice 21 to 25 Cubs Magnus one Raymond R orange say That's awesome very awesome Kirby and story we should get after this redemption 1994 okay 1994 tops finest cornerstones auto variation Raphael Devers That is my guy. I know that name somewhere Red Sox Walter H Finest cornerstones auto variation of Raphael Devers redemption Mmm. Oh Brian. That's not good. We treat Donnie very poorly Ricky refractor illa Horace Montero Rockies Yeah, we make him park three miles away and take a Uber from there Franco Green Lava Cedric Mullins for the Orioles 65 out of 99 paid uber. Yeah, he pays for it. He does refractor Corey Seeger Paid by Donnie Donnie practically works here for free Aqua Robbie Ray Mariners to 199 I'm hearing out where it feels like now Donnie come on. I'm kidding No, I thought I thought the I thought the Patriots one My that's something my wife would do she just put like an older Super Bowl during the regular one that I would just watch Like the Patriots when I'd be like, yeah Wait Deion branches back stuff like that Like wait, I thought I thought Richard Seymour retired God Bryce Harper 73 of 99 for the Phillies nice What card did Walt hit? I gotta lick it really quick. Let me see. He hit he had a posey auto Wander franco mini diamond rookie Tampa Bay big card 43 of 50 These are so clean Love gilded every time Tampa Bay this one's going out to the Ten of a spots. I can't read Dean. 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I mean you talk about the superstar cornerstone defensive end and Nick Bosa out for the season with another torn ACL seven torn ACLs in week two. According to Adam Shifter like he mentioned on Monday night football he has never seen anything like that in a very very long time with seven players tearing their ACL in one one day not just one week one day ridiculous to think about but Nick Bosa is that biggest name and that defense is going to suffer all of a sudden you got to think to yourself with him out and then Sherman potentially being out for another couple more weeks is this team the the the best defense in the NFL right now that title belongs to Baltimore Ravens but are they even contenders to be a top five maybe even top 10 defense in the NFL I mean if you look at the the run game and the passing game as well they've been getting I want to say torn up they still have flashes of being a decent defense but they've been giving up some plays that they usually wouldn't be given up in 2019 so this defense has taken a hit got rid of DeForest Buckner as well on that line and man Solomon Thomas as well another torn ACL goodness I don't think this defensive line or this San Francisco defense is going to be the same and for you guys that do play fantasy football don't be scared if you have a player that's established and is good but you're like oh man they're facing the 49ers though hey don't be afraid don't be afraid to start that player so Nick Bosa Solomon Thomas this is going to be a big hit to the 49ers team are they going to get back to that Super Bowl status that they were a couple years ago probably not will they make the playoffs that remains to be seen with someone like Nick Bosa or Solomon Thomas out on that defense you could argue okay well maybe the offense can carry this this team not so much with Raheem Moster and Tevin Coleman their top two running backs out as well that's a big hurt as well Moster a minimum of one to two weeks most more than likely he's not going to be playing against the New York Giants and instead the ball is going to be given to Jerick McKinnon and Jeff Wilson because Tevin Coleman suffered a worse injury than Raheem Moster he had a knee injury and he's going to be out for minimum four weeks already placed on IR so that's a big step to ask for that San Francisco running backs the next up with Jerick McKinnon and Jeff Wilson which McKinnon has been looking great and might not even skip a beat the 49ers offense at least behind that offensive line but Moster is obviously the most talented back in that 49ers offense and it makes a big difference as far as having a talent like that out of the game and you got to rely on your third and fourth string so remains to be seen Jerick McKinnon good talent has definitely earned the right to play more snaps with the way he's been playing especially in the receiving game but that's that's definitely a big hit when you lose when you lose your top two running backs George Kittle is still recovering from a left knee sprain and what Kyle Shanahan said about him is that he wants to wait until Kittle has the opportunity to play it on natural grass instead of turf so that it won't be that much pressure and that much intensity on that knee and he can recover better so could he play this week against the New York Giants physically yes possibly but is he going to be forced out there because of the lack of natural grass on that field Shanahan would rather just wait and look ahead at the season in the long run and make sure that Kittle is fully healthy because hey they're perfectly fine with Jordan Reed seven receptions 50 yards and two touchdowns out of that guy where he come from but they're going to be waiting for that so Jimmy Garoppolo is another one of those guys that he wants to wait on potentially playing on natural grass because his injury is a high right ankle sprain and the reason why that's so important and critical is because if it was a left ankle sprain and not his right foot then he might be projected to come back maybe a week sooner than usual but because it is his right ankle and his planting foot because he's right-handed so whenever he takes a snap out of the shotgun or even out of center especially a lot of pressure is going to be put on that back foot to stop set in the pocket and even to throw deep balls he's going to be using that back foot a lot so that's big for Jimmy Garoppolo the fact that it was in his right foot as opposed to his left foot but he's more than likely missing this week against the New York Giants and the start is going to be given to Nick Mullin so overall team outlook with all of these injuries happening to Solomon Thomas, Nick Bosa, Raheem Moser, Kevin Coleman, Jimmy Garoppolo, George Kittle, Richard Sherman already being out, Debo Samuel on IR, gosh that's a lot of names. I doubt that this team is going to get back to the Super Bowl just outside looking in right now because that's I know that a lot of these guys may come back in the next week or two but man two games is critical in the NFL that could determine between a bi-week or a wide-part spot so for the 49ers it's going to be tough especially in that division with Russell Wilson who looks like an MVP now, Kyler Murray in that Cliff Kingsbury offense taking a step up and Murray being an MVP candidate as well from the looks of it it's going to be tough it's going to be tough for the 49ers


So we were discussing the content of the project and we focused our discussion around gaps in terms of the content of the project and also some lessons that we've already learned which could be fed into this project or into new projects. So some of the gaps were things like partly related to the survey tools that we're using, things like policy influences on crop residue management, the whole institutional setup, the analysis of those is somehow not very well captured in this project. Because we have tended to focus all our efforts on the farm level, the household level and the village level, then some of those higher level drivers are not really very well captured in this project and maybe that's something we need to think about. Another thing related to that is this whole area of farmer decision making, farmer preferences, allocation decisions which are really at the heart of this project and perhaps the way in which we've structured some of our survey tools to be very specific and quantitative have maybe not left enough room for capturing open questions about how farmers make decisions. Another issue we discussed was the whole novelty of this project because there have been many studies in mixed crop livestock systems in terms of how crop residues are allocated over the last two or three decades. So what's really new about what we're doing? Something that we felt was new was that previous work has tended to be focused on technical aspects of crop residue management whereas we are focusing a lot more on this project on some economic assessment of farmer decision making and also the use of multiple sites around the world which are at different stages of intensification allows us to say something about trajectories of intensification and how decision making changes as systems intensify. So maybe that's something new about this project too. Some lessons, one lesson I think that we've learned or perhaps we need to learn is that we need to integrate the social with the technical especially in the modelling component where we could get very we could turn out some very mechanistic biophysical models which don't really capture some of the social issues so that's something we need to think about. Other lessons, we need to keep our eye on the big drivers, the global drivers. There's already been this SLP driver study but we need to feed some of that thinking into this project and maybe that's something that could be new about this project and I think that's probably what captures most of what we've discussed.