Hello, Myself Pravindra Chauhan, Assistant Professor, Department of Electronics Engineering, Walsh and the Institute of Technology, Solaapur. So in this session, we will discuss how to interface the RS-232 with the microcontroller 8051. So the outcome from this session is that the students will be able to apply the concept of the RS-232 interfacing to develop the controller-based system. So outline of the sessions are first, we will see the signals defined in the RS-232, then the converter max-232 and interfacing of RS-232 with the microcontroller 8051. Now what is this RS-232? The RS stands for the recommended standard. So this RS-232 standard is an interfacing standard and mainly it is used for the serial input-output interfacing and RS-232 standard was set by the Electronics Industries Association EIA in 1960 and this RS-232 standard is defined for the uniformity. And that's why this RS-232 standard is nowadays widely used as a serial input-output interfacing standard. Now in RS-232 standard actually the logic 1 and the logic 0 is represented by the certain voltage range. So the logic 1 is represented by minus 3 to minus 25 volt and logic 0 is plus 3 to plus 25 volt. Now in this standard minus 3 to plus 3 volt is undefined. So the RS-230 standard it is mainly comes in the two types of connectors. One is called the DB-25 and second one is called the DB-9. It is the D-type connector with the pin 25 and the 9, but widely used connector is the DB-9. So most of the times DB-9 connector is preferred where only 9 signals are defined. Now in the serial input-output interfacing the two turns are widely used. One is the DTE and another one is the DCE. So DTE actually stands for the data terminal equipment and this is refers to the terminal and computers that send and receive the data such as your laptop PC. So the DTE is actually the source of your data which generates the data and the DCE is called the data communication equipments and this DCE term is used for the communication equipment and widely used communication equipment is the modem. So modem is used whenever there is need to transfer the data over long distance. So modem is actually placed between your transmission media and the DTE that is the PC or laptop. Now coming to the RS-232 DB-9 connection, one of the pin defined as a DTR which is the pin number 4. So DTR stands for data terminal ready. So whenever the data terminal means our source of the data that is the PC or laptop is turned on then it sends the out signal DTR to indicate that it is ready for the communication. Whenever the PC is ready for the data transmission it sends the high signal on pin DTR. Then DSR that is called the data set ready. Now when data communication equipment that is the modem is turned on then it asserts the DSR signal to indicate that it is ready to communicate. So when DTR and DSR is active it means that both the DTE and DCE that is the PC and the communication equipments now are ready for the communication. Then RTS request to send. So when the data terminal equipment is ready to transmit it sends the RTS signal to the modem. So RTS signal is generated by the PC and received by the modem. So when modem is receiving the RTS signal so modem will understood that the PC or the DTE is now ready for the data transmission. Then to response this the modem is sending the signal called CTS that is clear to stand and it is received by the data terminal equipment to indicate that the modem is ready to receive the data. Now with this acknowledgement signals to each other then actually the data communication will start. Now DCD data carrier detect. So the modem is actually connected to the transmission media and when the carrier is detected the modem is generating the signal called DCD that is the data carrier detected. Then RI which is defined to the pin number 1 called ring indicator. So an output from the modem and input to a PC indicates that the telephone is ringing and it goes on and off in synchronous with the ringing sound. And mainly the pin number 2 and pin number 3 are actually involved for the data transmission. So RXD means RS232 receiving the 1 bit of information serially through the RXDP. And the RS232 transmits the 1 bit of information serially through pin number 3 which is defined as TXD. So RXD for to receive the 1 bit and TXD used to transmit the 1 bit serially. And for the to complete the circuit or to close the circuit the ground signal is defined to the pin number 5. Most of the laptop or PC is having the serial port with the standard RS232. Now when it is required to interface the any processor or the microcontroller like 8051 with the laptop or the PC then the max 232 line driver is required. Because whatever the signals defined in RS232 for logic 1 and logic 0 are different than the TTL levels defined for the 8051 controller or any other processor. So for conversion of this the max 232 line driver is required. So the logic 0 in RS232 is defined with plus 3 whole to plus 15 whole. Then same logic 0 in max 232 is defined with 0 to 0.8 whole. And the minus 3 whole to minus 15 for logic 1 and 2 to 5 whole for max 232. So whatever the levels defined in max 232 these are compatible to the TTL devices like the 8051. Say this is the max 232 pinout. So this is transmit 1 and its corresponding out T1 out. Then this is receive 1 and receive out. So 2 inputs are there for transmission and receive. Now see how we can interface our PC and the 8051. So this is our computer serial port with RS232 standard pin number 2 for receiving, pin number 3 for transmission. This is the 8051 TXD transmit pin. This is the P3.0 receive pin. So when 8051 sends the data to the PC first it will go to the max 232. So this TTL level will be gets converted into the RS232 which is compatible for the PC serial port. Similarly the serial data coming out from the PC through TXD that will be converted into the TTL level by this max 232 and then the 8051 receiving through the pin RXD. Now to allow the data transfer between the PC and 8051 system without any error we must make sure that the board rate of 8051 system matches the board rate of PC serial port. So the board rate for both at the 8051 and the PC must be saved and by most of the times the board rate referred is 9600. And now the hyper terminal is one of the tool which we can be used to transfer the data between the PC and the 8051. Now you pause the video and just recall what are the special function registers associating with the serial communication in 8051. So these are the two special function registers Sbuff to store the transmit and receive the data whenever we are keeping any character in the Sbuff register the transmission will start and to configure the serial communication of the 8051 the Sconn register is used and this is used mainly to select the mode of operation. So the references thank you.


Right, so the last time Dustin started talking about like the relative solid theory and the relationship to eddy spacers and so I want to kind of continue with that. Okay, so I guess I want to talk about the relation between these basic objects that appear in Hoover theory that are called Hoover pairs and the kind of basic objects that appear in our theory that are called analytic rings.  So the first one we discussed was the integers and solid or just stress that it's one over z, solid being grouped inside of all condensate integers, but then last time Dustin discussed the example where you take the polynomial algebra with the adjoint T and then within all condense adjoint T modules, well you can somehow just take the ones that are complete in the center of this one so you can amount to taking modules over the polynomial algebra inside of the solid in the integers. But then Dustin argued that it's actually quite natural to also isolate a stronger continuous condition giving the solid adjoint T modules, which when geometrically speaking, well this corresponds maybe to some kind of a fine line or this corresponds to those units. And in these cases the condense thing was actually just a screen, but this notion of completeness is still interesting. You could also, I don't know, take VG or QP or whatever and then take polyGP modules or take QP, polyGP modules. And in those cases these are actually just the ones that are with the underlying condensate being grouped as solid. There's no meaningful way to strengthen this. Okay, so the notion of analytic wrinkles and the acceptorized situation. On the other hand, yeah, and the other thing you learn in the serial panic state, then you run into this definition, I mean the basic optics there are these Hooper pairs. So let me recall what these are. There's a Hooper, although Hooper, of course, use different names. Hooper ring, the pathological ring, let me also just call it A for now. A, that admits an open subring, A0 and A, such that they exist some finally generated ideal. And because now it's not clear what ideal means because there are two rings in place when you create an ideal force, I0, such that A0 has the IID quality. Let me give examples in just a second, let me just finish the definitions. And then Hooper has a notion of the ring of integral elements. This is an opening in a Hooper ring, A. It's an open and integrally closed subring, A plus contained actually in the power bond of elements. Maybe I will also recall what they are in just a second. And third Hooper pair, Hooper pair, well, A plus Hooper rings, A, and the ring of integral. Okay, so what are the example situations in mind? And then it first gives some secret example, any discrete ring is a word. So in this case, you can take A0 to be A, until 0 to be 0. Suddenly, let's give it, when any other ring that's itself has an added ring for finally generating a DOI, it's a logical ring with the IID quality, or some kind of regenerated ideal of I. So in this case, you can say it's an A0 to be A, and I to be I. And maybe like actually interesting is when you have something that you buy out of algebra. So, I don't know, so for example, Qt, a Hooper, or any non-academic field of Hooper. And in this case, you take A0 to be Vt, and I to be the only regenerated, which really is only an ideal in Zp and not in Qt, of course. So basically, the idea is that Hooper rings are basically certain kinds of localizations or something like this of such a ring for some IID quality. And so also, whenever you have any kind of Bonnet algebra over Qt, or some other non-academic local field, there's also always Hooper ring. And as A0, you think somehow takes the unit ball in your Bonnet algebra. And as the idea, you can take the one that comes from a uniformizer. A remark is that it's a completion of any Hooper rings again, Hooper. And you will generally only consider the key examples. But completion now in the classical sense, like the law of converging perceived sequences, there's like, perceived sequences more than a no-sequence, is again Hooper ring. And in fact, if you start with such, it's called ring of definitions, the one which has the IIDX apology for some fanatical, very good ideal I, then it will be the case that the completion of A0 will be an open suffering of the completion of A. And this is actually just the IIDX teaching of it. And at least when one uses Hooper rings and Hooper pairs to do edict spaces, then the edict spaces associated with a Hooper ring and this is completion are definitely the same. So in this sense, it's non-complete Hooper rings have the most technical in the whole theory. So and we will only consider complete ones. From the following whenever I say people really put a pair and so on, I always assume that the underlying Hooper ring is complete. Okay, and so I'm here this last time Dustin discussed some notions of like the blotching uniform elements, power bond elements and so on. This can also be defined in here. So again, a Hooper ring, you can define the blotching uniform elements and power bond elements in A. So this is a set of all F and A such that F to the n goes to 0s, n goes continue, which once I assumed it's complete is really just a condition right now. And these are all the elements that the set of its powers is bounding. It's actually problem to say that it's contained in such a 0, some sort of a definition. Actually, a different way to think about this is to say, first of all, you have these canonical these are canonical objects, this is a certain double circle. But on the other hand, we all actually see the fear in the definition that there is some rate of circle ring of definition and some ideal definition of the same. And these are always because of power and elements and the ideals that all consist of topological uniform elements are in a 0 and A. So for example, in the example of Qp, Vp is actually the A3 and the ideal direct P is actually the blotching uniform. So in this case, these kind of conclusions are equalities. Of course, this can generally be true because it could also as an ideal definition here take it's the ideal direct by P squared, but then you don't have all the blotching uniform elements. But in some sense, this is as better as it gets. In fact, the collection of all such A0s and the collection of all such I say from filter collections and A3 is actually actually a filter column of all possible such A0s and also I sorry. And similarly, these topological uniform elements of the filter column of all choices of such ideal definition and rings of definition of A. All right, this was part one of the definition to give a little bit of discussion. Part two was that, oh no, I'm sorry, there is no I wanted to define, I wanted to say that if I also have a ring of integral elements and I can define it A plus, but as it's kind of weight is because sorry. Okay, so when we're learning some theory, I think it's very simple. At first, I think it's extremely hard to appreciate the significance of this ring of integral elements A plus. It is somewhat necessary for Huber to set up a theory, but it's kind of hard to feel why it's necessary. But it actually turns out that the theory that we developed, you think the solid model gives you a way good understanding of what it actually does. And in the precisely matches, okay, here's an example, VHNT, actually has several possible rings of integral elements. I mean, just to just quickly, in this case, the ring of integral elements is just some integrating for a subring. For example, you could take just V instead of VHNT, or you could take the full thing. And in our theory, we will somewhat use this and associate to this an analytic ring with a period of modules. It's somewhat only complete with respect to V. And to this, you will associate the role of the theory. And so the role that is a possible play is precisely the one of saving out which modules to be considered as complete. All right, so maybe I should, I guess it's definition of analytic rings. By the way, and I think I can make this a more notation. Huber uses a single letter A through the note that Huber pair are consisting of some topological ring and the ring of integral elements. And we will follow that conversation. So also when I discuss analytic rings, I want to use single letters to denote the analytic rings, but then they will have an underlying, well condensed ring in that setting. And we needed some symbol to denote the underlying condensed ring. And we didn't come out with anything good. So we chose to just follow Huber's lead. Okay, so let's say A triangle is now some life condensed ring. And then I want to say what is an analytic ring structure on the same? So one isn't allowed to have complete modules. It's equivalent to the one that doesn't get in the first lecture, but presented from a slightly more elementary perspective. So it's a full stock category that I would call the AMO. It's a full stock category of the condensing. It's implicitly nice. So this is a condensed ring group and together with a map from the tender product. The data was just set and now I will make a lot of conditions on this, but now those conditions that we had already seen before twice, like twice we stated that like solid to be induced and the solid to get onto modules, that they have a lot of nice properties and it was a long long list. And sometimes because we don't want to save this list also start me, we didn't make this definition. So first of all, it should be in the accessibility. So stable under kernels and poke idols, but it's also stable. In fact, under all limits and columns or extend them. So if you have an extended to complete guys, it should also be complete. And then there is a slightly pretty condition that you want to check. It's also stable under all x i from some n x i over a triangle where anything, any condensate triangle model or looking something and contains so we want modules. Dustin, did I have something? Thanks, sir. So can I speak? Yes. Okay. Does it imply maybe you can one can prove from this in some way? So for example, does it imply that it is a growth in the category where the condition that I alluded to is the existence of a set of generators. This is automatic under these conditions. What? He said yes. He said yes. Yes. Oh, this is a And does it imply that the x groups in the subcategories are the same as the x in the full or the I don't know what he said, but the answer is yes. Yeah, I know that answer is yes, but he didn't hear that.  So if you really phrase it fully in the beyond the level, you have to be slightly careful when you say that. Right. Because it did not be the case that like in here in the second level defined to the right category of modules, and it's not to the right category of this opinion category. It's not. Does he hear what I say? Yes, I hear what he said. So you said that the drive category. Yes. So the second level defined a certain triangle category or stable and thin or whatever. As a full subcategory of condensed, the right category of those things. Yes. Which is a correct one, but in general, it will not be the same thing as the drive category of this opinion category, I don't say. So in this case, in this case, when you have this full subcategory, you'll say that you have a drive category, which is not the drive category of this subcategory. Yes. This is the heart of a T structure. Ah, this is how you do those with homology groups are in this. So it doesn't imply that the X are the same. Right, right, right. So it doesn't imply. Right. It does not. And sometimes it does. Sometimes it is true, but not the agenda level. Like in most practical cases, it will end up being true. Pull this generally. No, I guess. Okay, so I can press that. Yeah, you press that. Now gonna put me, make me confused. So I want to claim that there is an automatically elected on to this inclusion. Dustin, do I really need something for this? No, I think that's fine. What's the argument again for this? Well, I mean, it's again, this general principle. I think it's not quite trivial, but I think it's a general principle that if you have a presentable category and a full subcategory closed under limits and sufficiently filtered co limits, in this case, all filtered co limits, then then the inclusion has left the joint. So there's a very related statement that involves this sets the record nonsense as well. Thank you principle. But I think that you don't have some liners, right? Yeah, or no, something or maybe you don't have the sufficiently filtered co limits or something. I believe that the statement that I just mentioned, which I believe you also mentioned at some point earlier is just a fact in ZFC. Right. If not, then just assume that there is a left to join. Okay. What is the fact that there is? It's like if you have a presentable category and then you have a full subcategory closed under all limits and under all sufficiently filtered co limits, then the inclusion has a left to join. And the category is presentable? Yes. The big category, no, the big category, only the big category has to be presentable. The small one will automatically eat. Yeah, but it is not clear from the stability that they're telling the set of generators. No, that's right. That's it's a non-trivial claim. It's a non-trivial claim which is drawing and what was this? I think it maybe implies you can leave out sufficiently filtered co limits or something. Don't quote me. Don't quote me. Right. Okay. End of definition. Okay. So, okay. So, so, so first I want to explain some general spectrum of this. So, first on the opinion level, so the claim is that there exists a left to jump as inclusions that I will write as setting model m to the base change from a triangle to a. So, so much a right now is just purely intentionally, but I will think of it as a module over this analytic ranking that I call a. And so, it's such a basic standard function. The kernel of this function is the table ideal. And model a requires a unique symmetric analysis structure making the base change a symmetric analysis function. Let's sketch the proof. So, we already discussed the questions in the systems of the left to join there.  If it's not, then just make it part of the definition. Okay. Now the question is about that this is a tensor ideal. So, what does it mean to be a tensor ideal? So, so the left to join factors, it's definitely this one that we should all call in this. So, to show to tend to go up to show that if I have something in the kernel and that's anything, then it's still in the kernel. So assume n is a triangle module such that and then there's a triangle meaning it has no match to any module. Anything, any kind of same. Then we want to show that take the standard product. Then it's a zero. So this means step for all in model a. So the home from n-sender and the standard approach itself is zero. So this is what this function is by definition is left to join. But now using center home induction to see the result of the homes from n to the internal from n to l. But we assumed that this guy still comes in by functions. It was one of these functions that are stable under all internal likes in particular internal homes. But now if this is a mod a, then again, because I mean, this precisely the condition right, I can also write with it on the mod a, on the base stage, but this guy serves to make one structure. So, so the standard product on a has to be given by taking the standard product in, we'll see, just regards to misconducting modules and then competing again. The question is whether this, this makes it fun to make it more normal. And again, so let's check for all and then I can then first standard and then okay, or I can first keep all of them. There was a standard product where this was by definition. Okay, and now it looks really ugly. But okay, it's only only at the very beginning when you first set up the series, I think, to disambiguate all these things. But the point is just that this function here, this localization, the kernel of this is a tender ideal. And so, I think you don't use the kernel, but you just repeat the same time of the type of argument, homing this to something in the subcategory and using. I did this in the solid case and just do the same argument. And so same argument, let me not try to do this again. That's actually, I realized that on the ABL level, the better thing to say would have been that if I have a map, which is turned into an isomorphism under a, under a localization, that also if I tend to this map with anything else, it also becomes an isomorphism. And then the, which follows from the same argument as this one really. And then the point is that, for example, I have this map from M to its completion, which becomes an isomorphism of the localization because it's an unimportant operation. And so if I tend this with N, some of the same states through it. So there's some structure you automatically have an analytic brain. So there'll be a category of modules, some kind of localization of security of condensed modules that was the underlying ring. And it's quite required in terms of product. And now we pass to the derived categories, let me not just say that a, you know, the green structure on an underlying light and then seeing a triangle. Then I'm going to find the derived category of a modules. So the full subcategory of the derived category of condensed modules. The full subcategory is such that for all the subcategory of all, then we still just call them n. So complex of modules, the homology group. Let me think homologically, if I can hear it. All the homology groups. Line with subcategory. It's defined for thesis. And then, okay, so here it is already a warning. So there is a natural comparison factor of the derived category of what a computer is. But it's not always an equivalence. And essentially all, I mean, basically, all cases I'm aware of, it will come out to be an equivalence, but it's just not a general set. But yeah, so the good thing to really focus on is the thing that we simply call D of A. And so the previous proposition has an n was on the derived level. So D of A, sort of space cluster. A triangle, the triangle of the subcategory. So I mean, probably in one or two lectures, we will probably switch to the infinity categorical language where we would say stable infinity category instead. But now it's not really required, so let me just raise it in more classical terms. Stable under all. So again, in stable infinity cases, say stable under all limits and cold limits, but general limits and cold limits are not well behaved if you focus on the categories. But you can say something equivalent in the stable under all direct sums and all products, which are well behaved and to what they are supposed to do. I'm trying to say. The inclusion again has an episode that I want to call the derived center park. And again, this has the properties that if you have something that becomes nice in here, then if you turn it with anything else, it's still the same. But because there's no triangle category, you could actually phrase this according in terms of the problem. But so if you have something in the kernel of this, so you tend to have something saved in the kernel, so the kernel is the tender idea. And then again, this in the tender property and uses the tender property. So if one wants to do the previous type of argument for this fact, then one lands into the question of whether the, of course, there is internal home in the full derived category by unbounded and so on. But the question is whether if you have internal home from anything to something in D of A, then it lies in D of A. Right. And this is not because of unboundedness. I don't know. Of course, if you have a bounded complex, you have a spectral sequence. I mean, you still have to work with that. Here you have unbounded in both directions. I can see in one direction you have in the same way. So both of the light condensing is still replete. The derived category is left complete. And so I think you can control the question. Okay, let me do this in a second when I come to the proof. So the product, making your own space change. Yeah, so first of all, triangulators. So here you have M-tron to M-double-tron, M-tron-1, the triangle, and then same on yours. And that's the same two of them. And by shifting, it doesn't matter which two are in D of A. Then we want to show that M is also in D of A. That's just how M is also in D of A. But for this, we just look at the long and thick sequence. So we have HM of M-tron, and then we have H1 of M-double-tron here. And these are A. So if I have some portion here, and I have some kernel, kernel here, right? And some parts of the kernel are the same, of M-double-tron. This is a portion of M-double-tron. So these are both A-modules. And then this one is an extension, right? So here we use stability under kernels and functions, and then we use stability under experiments. And I think standing here actually realized... Okay, so stability under direct sums is used to the HIs. And I think standing here actually realized that the stability in the product countable ones, they definitely reduced to HIs. And then the uncountable ones, that was okay, went back where we were working the full condense setting. And when preparing the lecture, I overlooked it. There might be arguments in here, Dustin. Should I just assume that there is a left that's on the middle of the right categories, or...? I'm sorry, I was busy with the chat. What's going on? Why is it stable under all products? Why is what stable under all products? The...  Oh, all products? Oh, and instead of just countable products? Oh. Ooh. All products exist, but is it exactly your technique? Yeah, this is a problem. The problem is that, like, enlightening things, all products are not exciting. Yeah, this is a problem. Okay. We'll have to think about this. You want an actual issue in some sense, but I screwed up to the definition. So we should ask for the existence of a left electron. I mean, Dustin did in the first lecture, and I just threw it up when I prepared your lecture. For the existence of a left electron, do the things we do. Obviously, of course, I definitely won't say I knew the left electron, because the right electron is similar to all of this. So now I made this next thing actually part of the definition that the left electron exists. So the criminals tend to ideal. So let's say N is complete, and then in any concept, that's all right, what I want to show. N isn't a kernel, and then it's anything. Then you have to show that all the ones that are complete, all of them are pretty often then it's kind of one of those problems. And the center, and first of all, because left on the sense of what's known as a retreat, so of course, this means it's a countable limit of subjections for subjections. Noted that I was introducing my paper, the slugger's button, the provisional sign. And one thing we showed there is that this implies that any such, anything, sorry, for all, I don't know, I didn't use a letter K, right? So for any K, which is, for example, condensate triangle model, came as ethnomorphically to the derived limit of its truncations in degrees at most, and to some kind of possible limit. So in the usual derived category of being groups, I mean, it's somewhat true, right? I mean, if when you truncate it to some degree, and then just take a limit of these things, you're somewhat stable, I think, for an answer. In general, that's an issue because you're taking a countable limit here. In general, a countable limit is in the right category, and that's the same. But under this assumption, you can control it. So this means that I can certainly assume that L is bounded here, right? What I mean. So first of all, I'm going to show this. I can again use tender homogenesis, and I assume that M has trivial completion. So it's enough. It suffices to show that in general, all home condensate triangle models from N, so, I'm sorry, it's not clear. Because then you can rewrite this as a home from N into this guy, but I assume that N has trivial completion, so it doesn't have to anything in D of A. Again, so this I want to reduce to the BN level, where I kind of had this statement that I've had something in mod A and anything, then all the internal X on mod A. The issue though, as the government already pointed out, is that you really need to ask this condition for all possibly unbounded complexes. That's why I mentioned this fact, so this at least allows us to assume that L, here is, so, okay, let's assume L and E minus, as this goes to the right, because also all the truncations, they are still in D of A, but because the condition was just on, there are more of these. On the other hand, N can be written as a core limit of the truncations to the left. This is always true that there's a core limit of the truncations in the region, less than or equal to minus then, as this much here, because core limits are used to direct summons, these are always good. And somewhat similar, you can pull the core limit here out into a limit, and because we know that this is stable, at least undercountable products, I can also assume that N is in D minus. But I think now I'm in business, because once this goes to the left and this goes to the right, everything reduces kind of to D equal X. Okay, we'll sequence to some L, just being degree zero and also N, and then presiding the conditions that the internal X remains real. I think that's fine. And once you have that, the existence of the tender product is just the same formal diagram so that I didn't execute just previously, but didn't sort of paste. All right, so another thing I should have really mentioned as part of the general thing, but didn't, so let me put it now, is that the derived tender products are, sorry, yeah, so the D of 80 has a natural T structure making the inclusion of the T-exact. The left and right is not a general T-exact, as we've already seen in the solid base, where solidification could turn something to the left, but if, but still, since there are phase change, it preserved as a connected part. A G structure is that you have a notion of like things which, that you can have a notion of truncation of complexes kind of, so that you have a notion of like truncation complexes, which certain non-negative degrees complex, which certain non-follipant degrees, they satisfy all the usual properties. So lately, I sort of thought, we've definitely made this trying the subcategory which is stable under all the different patients, right? So, so this inclusion is T-exact, and then it's just a completely general fact that if you have a left adjoint to a T-exact function, then at least it preserves the connected part. Check whether this maps to anything which is considered on the right, but this is a left adjoint, so you can compute the morphisms in the larger category, but then this is still in this category. Right. And so, in particular, you can talk about the heart, and the heart, all this also, definitely, is just not A. And so if you take this and pop to the heart, this is this thing, and if you take the derived tender product and pop to the heart. So in this sense, the derived and the VN level are compatible, and then there's the other question whether if you start here and just animate all these constructions above the derived category, whether we recover those, but this is just not true in general, yeah? So in general, we don't give them recovery of A, but even if you do, there's separate questions whether you recover the product functions, and again, it's not in general. Although, I think if you do recover the product categories, the adjoint also is a correct one, just by functor reality, but the tender product is a subject. But again, in practice, it is true. The ski of A is just a derived category, and all these functions are in derived terms. All right, was that out of the way? I'm almost done with my lecture in front of me. So the next two comparisons list is Hubert rings. So when we had Hubert ring, we had these topological newpot elements, the top one at the moment, and so on. And Dustin already gave a variant of this principle, Hubert rings themselves, or Hubert rings in pairs. They're meant to condense rings, of course. They're all about the race. This is actually fully traceable. All my ones are confused. But actually, this is an ancient solid rings. All my rings are completely new. The ones where they underline condensate being used as solid. And maybe I should call those not exactly. All right, and so then Dustin already asked that he gave a definition that it's a triangle, a solid ring. We can define a subset, a double third and a third of the underlying ring, where then we're called a recognition. A double third was set up to those elements in the underlying ring, such that the corresponding map leads on T to a triangle, set E, T to F, that factor is actually important. There was a discussion about how much structure do you need to check here. And so the condition was that it factors as condense rings. It's actually enough to check that it factors as condense modules over this point. And then it's simply saying that there is a sequence, a null sequence, one F squared and so on until zero. But together, it was a small condition that some of F times the sequence of shift of the sequence, negative model. And so if you apply this to the case where just sort of being a rose from a Uber ring, then there's precisely a set of top-up of the elements of the Uber ring. And then a lot of second. And how about the elements? Those were defined from those elements. When you regard A3 as the VO2-IT module in this way, on the same way, that it actually comes up. And again, you can show that there's precisely the same thing as the worst condition of being powerful on it. And so then, Dustin Soplowski talked about that this is always an integrally closed subject. And this here is always an undue. Radical update. So what's the definition of Western X? Yeah, sorry. I mean, given F, I can again use on T20 served. Let me write it again. So why are we going to have to change T to F? I kind of regard it as a CO2-IT module. And then the condition is solved. I'm already speaking some of the modules over at the CO2-IT. They have the modules of the closed unit disk. So Dustin, what did I do last time? So this means that on this algebra, you have to have T should be at most one. So it should be a problem. You can also check it. OK, but now I can also make the following. So assume A is an analytic ring structure a solid ring, a triangle. So then I can also define an A plus. I realize I didn't find maps of analytic rings. So let me do this in just a second. Let's set the map from D to N, T to A. Same as always. T goes first. This map induces the map of analytic rings, D to N, T, solid. I'm going to be corresponding to solid D to N, T modules. So something that I should have said previously, but forgot. This is what I'm not going to be doing. From A, which is the pair of condensed rings. And it's getting your modules to some B, which similarly is the pair of condensed rings exiting your modules. Here's a map of unaligned condensed rings, which has the properties that if you use this to restrict the condensed B module to a condensed A module, then people will say completely. For a section of sphere, I think it's all here. So here you have the same module pointing onto this. And in this case, you can pass the left adjoints. By the way, I mean, once it's true on the A-B level, the same statement is true on the level of the right categories because they can check it on the level of bodies. And once you pass the left adjoints, the left adjoint to restrictions on the extent of scalars, the left adjoint here is what I termed the base change function. And so you get it also left adjoint here. And if you want, you can compute it by first base changing as condensed modules and then completing. And you also get a derived environment. Okay, so the claim is that, first of all, once you have such an unaligned structure, you can get a datum as in Hooper. And so I really need to check that it's actually automatically satisfies this list of conditions that Hooper puts on this particular element. Conversely, I'm not sure if I have time. I hope I can say it, is whenever you have a regular integral element in Hooper's theory, you can actually produce an analytic ring, which somehow the initial one in some sense. Okay, so, right. So first of all, I can also rewrite this as the following conditions. It's all those things such that one minus f times shift, which isn't in the morphisms, from the derived base change, p versus, so p I recall is always a speech based on the morphism. And we characterized being solid over zero and t by, well, being solid, but this we already asked. And that one minus t times shift over this is an isomorphism on this projective generator. So what's actually going to ask is that, if I look at this thing here, get an object in G of A, then this is nice. Why? So if I admit such a map, then this already happens here. Like already here, one minus t times shift becomes an isomorphism of this object, like definitionally. But on the other hand, because this precisely characterized the solid modules here, you can also show the progress.  And so it just translates into this. So basically we are, like whenever you have any element of the underlying ring, you can ask this condition that one minus f times shift becomes it's an isomorphism of P and this will define for your analysis ring structure by this general, yeah, basically whenever you have an anomorphism of your compact project with object P, declaring that this should be nice and often always find an analysis ring structure. So you can take any subset of glory of this ring and ask this type of conditions. So I want to ask a question, I just asked Dustin, but it's not completely clear. So since you define the notion of map of analytic just in terms of models, so if you do this, you instead of does the derived tensile L, you send to, so this P tensile L means that you take the tensile product and you apply the left agent in the derived sense. But you can just take the tensile product and apply the left agent on modules. And so this is what does, this means P tensile Z A without the L I suppose. But then, so to check this condition, you get what I said. So if you try to check the in this map of an analysis ring, you can translate to this kind of statement, but with this factor on modules, but then it probably is equivalent to what you have written if you think about it, but in the derived way, but I just want to confirm that the two versions are equivalent is the one. Yes, right, because you can actually pretend analytic ring structures on the level of modules. It's enough to check it on the underlying, on the Indian level. Then it's also true, yeah. Okay, so it's equivalent. It's equivalent. It seems. I'm going to use a smaller mantra. So with the drive phone, I would be more confident, but I think the argument just gets this also true, so here. Right, so the point is that this satisfies basically all the, this subset also automatically satisfies the conditions of two versions. So it's always contains the top-locking new book in the islands, which are always an open subset of the series. In particular, it's open when it comes from Huberry. It's always contained in the power of all the elements. And it's always an integrally close suffering. So why is that? So, well, as F is an A double third, then we actually get a mapping Z power series T. But if I have a module that's actually Z power series T module, we'll call it Z. That's automatically.  Yes, exactly the same as last time. Because all I used was arguments about modules being solid over one and plotting are solid over another and so on. Let me just say it again. Okay. So, okay, so these are actually all there, but this means that whenever I add a module here over A, so in particular, it becomes a module here, which is everything was solid. So it must be an underlying solid ring. And so it must be solid with the adjoint T. I should have said solid. If the adjoint plus, then I get a map from Z adjoint T solid to A. But in particular, this means that a random line condensing, which we always assumed is a complete module, by restriction becomes a solid to exchange on Z1. So F is an A. Right? So this is a proof-seeing solution up there. And it's engineering for a separate that's the same argument as in Dustin's list. So in fact, yeah, so the argument that Dustin gave there was already talking in something not just about a triangle, but about any module.  Okay, so, right. Thus for a Huber ring, a triangle, I have the solid analytic instructive solid under the instructive one, which lives over a solid Z. And Huber consider this notion of the rings of integral. And I just gave you a recipe here that was taking some such, you know, the ring structure here and produced a ring of integral as a positive mean of view. And it's actually factorial. So you can actually show that one and the rings work to respond to it. Yeah. I mean, if you have a ring of the rings, then you get an inclusion of the ring of integral. And this actually has a left joint, I assume. So whenever I have a ring of the rings, I can produce a new ring structure. So it might be because of the solid. Sorry, yes. So it's solid, but it admits. And that's exactly what you need from the solid. Okay. Well, this solid is the Z. I mean, it's unique because the matter of rings is unique and then it's just the condition. So it's a condition that all the A modules are actually solid. And the different way to phrase this is to ask that one minus fifth has an n-emorphism of key tending Z, A. All right. So I wanted to say that it has a left joint. So if I had a rubber pair, then I can't send this to and then the secret A is associated with the rubber pair. Where mod A, by definition, all those, from then it's modeled over the underlying ring, such that all F and A plus what I take internal home from P into F. I have one minus F times shift acting on that. And that's this one. And because some of such a process are always integrally close, it's actually enough to ask for some kind of generating set. So whenever you have a subset of A plus that generates that there's an open and simply close up, the ring of integral elements, then it's enough to check it for the subset. So usually there's just one or two elements of something like this where you really have to check. So it's the same thing as those ones. So it's always for those two elements. So yeah, so to connect the spec at the beginning, so for example, z comma z is a rubber pair, and this is just called a z-module. If I take z dot t, that's all the pairs. So if I only put z here, then I'm only asking that some are solid over z. So I take all t dot t-modules and solid z-modules, but then when I take t dot t, here's your initial smallest, then this becomes the relevant source. And then if you have the time to let it just take one last proposition, so when you start with a rubber pair, and then go to, then if I go back, then this actually match back to A plus. So if I, right, so I have an analytic ring, and then I can take its, so I can take this thing here, and take its plus ring. So this is actually A plus. If we want to leave, so the left and right bunkers are definitely accessible from a rubber case into all other rings, but they also and yeah, I mean, really still quite struck by how closely the series that we saw that was the rings really matches Hoover's classical theory. So if you restrict to, and the rings where you only ask allow yourself to put conditions that one minus some element and shift operator on t becomes an isomorphism, then you're precisely getting those under the ring structures that are induced by rings of integrals and Hoover's sense. So which is kind of a very strong, a posterior motivation for this definition of ring of integrals. All right, I should stop.


I can imagine that some people will trickle in. So I will start slowly with a bit of an introduction. My name is Sandra Fokunye and one of the heads I have on is I work part-time as a product strategist for Wikimedia Sweden on a project which I will explain in a bit more length in a few minutes in project four that is related to the Wikimedia movement strategy in which Wikimedia Sweden experiments to start building up a thematic hub for support of content partnerships in the Wikimedia movement. And my side of the work is looking at how we can improve the situation of software in that area, software which is often written and made by volunteers and how we can support this better and make sure that the software becomes more sustainable. And that is also the topic of this session. Just for... And I welcome everyone who is joining now. Welcome, welcome, join us. Just for housekeeping reasons, I am going to put in the chat here in Zoom, the link to our EtherPAT. The EtherPAT is really central to this session in the sense that I really hope that as a group here we will have a lively conversation with each other and also shy people are triggered to put their opinion in there. And so I would really like to use the EtherPAT for group discussion at a bit of typing of IDs and then we can have a discussion afterwards. I will actually start sharing my screen for a short introduction while everyone joins. And I really welcome everyone who is joining here. Hi, everyone. Let me see for sharing my screen. Please bear with me. Okay, there we go. And I'm just going to shuffle around that I still see your face because I like to have a bit of a group feeling. Yes, that's better. All right. So for all the people who just arrived, I'm not sure if you see the previous chats, messages here on Zoom. We have an EtherPAT and I would like all of us to use this EtherPAT for active discussion. In the EtherPAT, you also see some information about the program, about what we will do together here the next 30 minutes. And so in the EtherPAT, you will see a short overview of what the session will be about. I will introduce this session while people trickle in with some context about why we are having this conversation. And then we will have a bit of a group discussion inside the EtherPAT and also with invited people here in the group. Hi Navi, welcome here and good to see you as well. And yeah, as I want to emphasize that this conversation is only the start of a much longer process. So I'm aware that not everyone who should be in this conversation can be here. So we would really like to follow up. I would actually like to encourage everyone who is interested in this conversation, who is here and things like, oh, I'm really interested in this conversation. I want to stay in touch. Please, the first thing you can do in the EtherPAT is type your name here. If you're comfortable doing that, of course. So let's say I am just a participant, I'm typing my name here. And if you want, you can also add your email address. And if you are affiliated with a piece of software or if you are working on a specific project that is relevant, then you can also enter the name of that project. So that's where we can start together. Just type your name here. Of course, I am already listed. If you are uncomfortable leaving your email address, you can after this session also email me and just get in touch with me in private. And then I will also have your contact information. I will now jump to a few short slides just to give some introduction and to warm up the group while people are coming in. In this session, I am, as I said a few minutes earlier, I am representing Wikimedia Sweden. Wikimedia Sweden is at this moment experimenting with how, what can a content partnership hub in the Wikimedia movement look like? And I am here with a specific hat on looking at how can we support software for content partnerships better. I have a few slides with some context. So some years ago, and I know that some people in this group have been really a big part of these conversations or have at least followed them along. We've been having conversations as the Wikimedia movement about where do we wanna be in 2030? What is, what are we striving for as a Wikimedia movement? And various, lots of recommendations and lots of ideas came out of those conversations our movement strategy for 2030. And one of the recommendations has been that we will ensure equity in decision-making, that we will make our decision-making about the crucial things we wanna do more equitables, that we will also establish a global council. That's one of the things that is going on that also start thinking about a more decentralized way of organizing our movements. For instance, with also besides the organizations that we already have with the chapters, the affiliates, also the establishment of regional and thematic hubs. And one of the themes that I am very passionate about personally, that's why I'm here, that's why I'm working with Wikimedia Sweden is Wikimedia content partnerships, glam-wiki partnerships, but much broader than that, Wikimedians collaborating with organizations around the world. And how can we make that work more effective, more sustainable? How can we help people do their work better? And yeah, that's why I'm here. And I think that's why you all are also here because you're interested in that topic. Wikimedia Sweden is actually stepping forward to experiment with doing a thematic hub in this area. And there are really some core values that we want to emphasize that it is an experiment, what we are doing here. We are really open to, and it's really important for us to answer to the needs of the Wikimedia movement. To help others, not replace the work that others are doing because we know that people in the Wikimedia movement are already doing a lot of content partnerships. It's more looking at what is missing, where can we help make do people do their jobs better and not step into on people's feet, but really help people where there are gaps. And so support can be in many different areas. This session focuses on one specific one, which is the technical area software. So various things are going on in the hub and at Wikimedia. There are other sessions also about some other aspects of that work, but in this session, we are focusing on software development. What does that mean, software? All of this has been a little bit fake. For me, software for Wikimedia content partnerships to make it a bit more concrete, that's things like, you know, Pettypan. That is things like software that we use for batch uploading data to Wikidata, batch uploading images to Wikimedia Commons to keep track of statistics, of the impact of our work in this area, visualizing things and all the infrastructure around it. How can we make that software better? We know of cases, you know, where the software, it is, this kind of software is very often developed by volunteer developers, which is amazing, passionate people developing really crucial things. And we actually want to make sure that volunteer developers can and are, you know, encouraged to continue doing this because there's a lot of, yeah, like innovation going on in that area, but how can we make this software also sustainable over the long term? How can we make sure that software stays maintained, that people can keep using it if they find it important, if it's valuable for them? And that has various questions. And in this session, in this discussion, we will only touch upon it very, very superficially and our intention is really to continue talking about this over time. And this is only a starting point, but what can a thematic hub do in this area? What should a thematic hub do and not do? And we will talk about it already a bit in a few minutes. How can we organize this? Who helps to decide, make decisions like which software do we really want to support for the future? Do we need new things? Which software do we also want to sunset? Things like that. How do we decide what to follow? Volunteer developers themselves want and also who pays for things if there's money involved? How does the money flow in? Who is being paid? Who is not being paid? How do we organize all of this? We are really at the beginning and as a movement, let's talk about this and that's why we are together. And I just want to flag. I saw that Jean-Fred is in the room. Hi Jean-Fred. We already have some people who are thinking about this area and that is something I want to encourage further. We have this wonderful blog post by Jean-Fredric Bertelot who has already been thinking about it from his perspective as a volunteer developer contributing to things. And we actually want to encourage more IDs like that and more conversations about all the IDs that are floating. Cool. Let's actually jump to a brainstorm. I want to stop talking myself and I want to give the floor to you, to everyone invited in this group, everyone present here. Let us go back to the EtherPAD. And in the EtherPAD, I have actually put some questions and I thank those who are taking notes. That's awesome. So we have, I will also switch to the slides. I hope that the slides will help a little bit. So listening to my introduction, like, okay, with the Wikimedia 2020 strategic direction, we want to establish thematic hubs that support certain aspects of our work in the Wikimedia movement. If you, yes, I will do that. Thank you. Oh, good. I probably mispronouncing your name, but I appreciate the ping. Yes. If we think about a situation where the essential software that we use for content partnerships batch upload software, software for statistics, software for reconciliation, all sorts of things that people want to do for partnerships. What are the essential things? What is the one essential thing that an organization helping it, like Wikimedia Sweden or another thematic hub, can do, should do, and what should they absolutely not do? I invite everyone to think about that for a few seconds and just type your IDs in here. So I see that someone is already doing. A few people are already typing and I will give the group the opportunity to do that for a few minutes. I will keep an eye on the either bet, what people are typing. And if I see that our IDs are falling a little bit silent, then I will actually come back and we can discuss it as a group. If there are things that other people are saying that you totally agree with, you can just say plus one. So I will do that here as well. I totally agree with keep engaging, growing the community, I plus one that. That also gives us a way to see, oh, these are the IDs that people like a lot. And I see that people are already typing and let's do that together for a few minutes. I forgot to think about waiting music. Oh, well. I will not sing because that's terrible. Let's just imagine that there is the music that you like inspiring you to type here. People are a little bit blocked in thinking about this. I also have put some more specific questions below. If you like, you can have a quick read of those questions and see if they inspire you for more specific answers as well. There's still a lot of activity here, which is great. I see that most people have very positive IDs, which is good. But also let me remind you if you think about things that thematic hope should definitely not do when they support content partnership software, please also put them there. That's also be negative. That's, it's really good for everyone to know what are definitely, definitely don't. I am also seeing that some people are putting plus ones behind IDs, which is great. That helps us to see which things are most important to this group here. So please do that as well. I think we will go on a few more minutes until I see that the typing stops a little bit and then we will regroup and talk together. I see things that I find really interesting. This is great. Also, IDs that I didn't have before. It's really nice. Sure, maybe some people have arrived quite late. So I will post the link to either, but again, I hope people are even adding answers to the specific questions. Wow, excellent. You're awesome. You're fantastic, all of you. Thank you. This is cool. Thank you for, thank you very much. I see that people are still typing. I would say also in the interest of time we now have 13 minutes left for this session. Let's continue typing for three minutes for people who will watch this recording. Afterwards it will be like people are typing and then either that's interesting. Let's type for three minutes more and then I suggest we kind of finish the typing session and we go back to a group discussion. And in that group discussion, there are some people in this session who I explicitly invited to be part of the conversation. We have Revital from Wikimedia Israel. Wikimedia Israel works on the Glambiki dashboard which is a tool for statistics for Glambi collaborations. We have Navino Evans and we have Eugene Egbe who have been working on a very nice tool called the ESA tool for tagging images on Wikimedia Commons. Let me see, we have Jean Frédéric Bertelot who is a very active thinker in this area, also a volunteer developer who helps us think through things and has blocked about this topic. And I would like especially to ask these people to also maybe give some comments on what has been said here. But I also want to say, yeah, everyone who wants to comment upon something, feel free to unmute yourself and speak up. And if you have a question or a comment you want to make, let's use also the raise hands feature of Zoom so that I am aware and the other people in the room here are also aware that people want to speak up. Don't be shy, feel free to speak up everyone. In the meanwhile, I see a call, I already see two questions in the chat. How many paid developers are currently working at the tools you collected in the tool list or in general at Wikimedia projects related tools? That is a really excellent question and I actually do not know and that is probably something we should be counting as well. I think looking at the lists and just eyeballing it very quickly, I do think if you would count all the paid developers for all these projects and some I don't know, maybe POS is also some paid people, I have no idea actually, I don't know it. Maybe three, four, FTEs totally, most of them are really volunteer tools or have been built just through a grant for a few months on a paid basis and then afterwards, yeah, there has been no payment anymore and there has been some low maintenance of the tools. At the best in that situation, it has been built by a paid grant but then no more paid support. Some of these are really, really hardcore volunteer tools so no one is working on them on a paid basis like all the Magnus tools, et cetera. But that's an excellent question and I think it's a really good one. When I continue building these tool lists to make sure that everyone is clear about it, it's not the final list. I think that's one of the things to keep track of like are there people being paid or have people being paid to do these things or are they purely volunteer based? And I see that there is a question from Butch who put up his hand in the chat. Butch, if you wanna speak up and ask your question, feel free to do so. Hello. Hi, I'm just sharing my experience before because during the movement strategy recommendations process during our meeting in Bangkok, I believe it was 2019, we are asked about how do we do with partnerships and one Wikimedia told us, why don't we have a central location wherein people can suggest ideas and or probably post something there that they're looking for a resource tool or person who could help them with their particular need.  I'm hoping that there will be some party or group who will develop this web interface. And you're specifically talking about something online, a place online like a forum where that feels a bit like a marketplace that's where people ask questions and gets help doing the things they want to do. Yes. Some sort of like that or a combination of both wherein there is someone who is offering help like I'm offering my Saturday time to teach you about quick statements then people will sign in with that tool. Yes. I'm actually gonna type your suggestion. I have the impression that that is this suggestion here that we have in the Etherpad rights, a marketplace where people post requests and offer capacity building. And I will add your comments there also a tool where people can offer their knowledge, help, et cetera. I want to add to that that Wikimedia Sweden's already also thinking in that direction they are building a help desk for content partnerships. I'm not sure if there's already ideas on doing that online in some sort of forum or marketplace setting but it is definitely good to keep track of that and see if that fills your needs. And if you have ideas about that, I'm very, very certain that Wikimedia Sweden, the people who are working on the help desk will be super happy to hear your feedback and comments. Thanks for that. Thank you for adding that comment and it is actually also an addition to one of the suggestions here. When I look at four or last six minutes at the various things that have been suggested, let me look at the ones that are plus one a lot. We see keep engaging and growing the community. Does someone want to answer to that or did someone suggest that specific one or do they feel very strongly and want to say a few words about that? I think also what are you specifically meaning by community is that specifically the developer community helping the helping that community to stay lively or is it more broad like a community of users? If no one speaks up, that's also totally fine but I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that that is highlighted. Another highlight that I see and I actually see it's old but there's Eugene who raised his hand. Eugene, go ahead. All right, I just wanted to share more light on engaging the growing communities. Yes. Particularly from Africa, I think that more and more responsibility is given to African developers. I think that if there is a lot of work done around GLAM in Africa, then the developers in those communities should be engaged more because I think most of the tools we use are not specific to the realities that we face in Africa. So if we can concentrate this energy around the specificities or the realities in Africa to be tools that are specific to these partners or these organizations implementing these GLAMs, then you'll be really good. Excellent. I am just quickly making a note of your comments here. So I hear you say that you would like both, I think, engagement for the community, help for growing the community for the GLAM partnerships themselves but also for the developers working on it. Am I correct in hearing that or? Sure, sure. Excellent. Thank you. Okay, I will leave it to others to respond because I'm also moderating here. Another thing that I see coming back and I totally agree with that. I want to cluster a little bit. I see here that we want better documentation, learning resources, master classes, train the trainer certificates. I totally agree with that. I know myself that someone already said here, like the master is META. I think one of the recommendations or at least we've talked a lot about in the movement strategy about better documentation in general for the movement and maybe more centralized, maybe documentation that is easier to find, easier to translate and that is definitely something. I can imagine that a hub like this would play a role in. I see a hand from Alicia. Alicia, go ahead, take the phone. Yeah, thank you. A lot of the work that I do at Wikimedia Sphere is working with GLAMs who want to have content partnerships with the Wikimedia movement. And we are really seeing this shift in that GLAMs don't just want to get their stuff uploaded to commons and so on, but they actually want to develop in-house expertise and they want to develop their own long-term strategies and continue contributing to the platforms on their own. And this has really been quite a big question especially with working with GLAMs, like explaining here are all the different tools, here are all the different user scripts, here is Smitha, here are people discuss and here are all the different pages that you have to read up on. And here's all the pages with documentation that a lot of people have developed in parallel or not at all. And I often get the impression that GLAM people expect a nicer package to learn from because they want to invest their time into it. I recognize that very much. I see in the group that we also have Michelle from Wikimedia Netherlands and Wikimedia Netherlands, for instance, is also working on documentation specifically for GLAMs. So I made a note of that if people want to add things there, then please do. We are almost running out of time but the EtherPAT I think is a fantastic resource that we can come back to later. I just want to quickly say, we will follow up on this. So as I said in the beginning, if you want to stay in touch, please leave your email address or email me because this is just the start. This EtherPAT is gold and we will follow up on it. I want to focus on getting the most out of this group. So I see that Navinon has raised the hand and I want to give you the floor, Nav. Thank you. Yeah, it's just a quick thing really, just to say from my perspective, the major, major thing that is a bit problematic is this idea that it's really, really fun to develop the tools in the first place and volunteers love to do that and they maybe like to add a new core feature and make it do something really fancy. But then the really boring bit comes afterwards which is like maintaining it, coming to fix it when there's a problem in the future, maybe some stuff changes technically and you have to go and update the security. And all of this stuff is just not, there's not time to do it and there's not the energy to do it. And even Magnus, like he responds to what he can but he has this huge list of outstanding requests for really important features for different people and he doesn't have the time to do it. And if he does have time he wants to do something that's fun for him, obviously. So for me, it feels like particularly supporting obviously Magnus, but anyone who develops these tools and really highlighting the most important tools and the ones that are really used by everyone and the things that everyone really wants them to have and to just come on board and support them with some ongoing sort of paid work, like the quick statements and these really essential tools that so many people use. So I feel like that's the major thing that's maybe missing and would be really nice to see more of. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have seen this quite recently with Patti Pan developed by volunteers. Volunteers have their own lives, they have their own priorities. And when stopped working, it turned out that a lot of glams depended on it to do their uploads.  But that really made it very, very clear that this is a weakness in the tools ecosystem. Yeah, thanks for that. And I am actually also curious to hear what volunteer developers, more volunteer developers find about that. I've often heard Magnus himself say, I love creating tools from scratch and thinking, like inventing new tools. And then I'm totally fine with others picking it up. He does not want to be paid himself at all, not because he hates being paid, but just because he has a different job in his life. I actually want to hear more in the future about other volunteer developers as well, like what do you find acceptable and not where, at what points when a tool is seen as really important, what form of collaboration do you appreciate? How do you feel about being paid or not? Because that's also a sensitive thing in our movement. Like some people do things for pay and that's in my personal opinion totally fine. Some of our best tools have been created also in a paid position. I think that's also for me part of the conversations we need to have after this. I don't hear anyone from the organization telling us that we need to stop. So I'm just continuing here until someone says you need to stop this session. If people want to go, of course, feel free to go, but I quickly just want to go to some other comments that have gotten me the pluses. We do not want to depend on Magnus Montz because free time to fix problems. No, that's correct. Yeah, Magnus is fantastic and he is extremely helpful and he has been really crucial to the Wikimedia movement. And yeah, let him do whatever he likes to do and let other people help to do whatever he does not like to do. And same goes for other volunteer developers. Let me see, do we have a really good thing to finish this session? I have absolutely not been able to read all the input here. So if someone has a last comment here I would encourage you to say so. Maybe one thing I am now on the spot thinking about. We, of course, also have a very mixed situation. We have tools like the ones created by Magnus Monska himself that have been totally volunteer-driven, but then we also have tools like the one that Wikimedia Israel is working on that is basically supported by an affiliate. Wikimedia affiliate is building it or several affiliates are building it and are maintaining it. It is in a bait position done by bait developers. And also there Wikimedia Sweden does not want to get in the way. It is great that also affiliates, organizations take initiative in doing things. And I think it's really good that we find also a way where we stay in touch very well about these things and we help each other. But if affiliates, if groups are really willing to do things then they should be able to do that. And we should support each other and find a way to do that as well. I see the message that we need to wrap up. There was a last hand from, I think Alicia again if you still have your famous last words. Yeah, I was looking at the tasks that would be good to be taken over by a formal organization such as us. And I see documentation, documentation, long-term maintenance and prioritizing what should be developed. These are the things that I'm not as glamorous to do if you are a developer and you like developing code tools but then to actually write good documentation that requires a different set of skills to make it all cohesive and available to different target groups. So that is a very good point that I will be taking away from this. Totally. Thank you, cool. Last hand from Eugene or was that still your old hand up in the air? Sorry, we're gonna have to finish. Oh, I'm sorry. It's for the next session. Thank you, everyone. But let's be in touch. Please leave your contact info and we will talk about this more. Thank you very much organizers, technical team. Thank you.


A lot of the stuff going on, there's a lot of fanatics on both sides going at it, and some of them are paid agents, like agent provocateurs. One thing that people have to appreciate is, look, if you're going to learn one term, one term, one phrase, let's say, one phrase in your life to understand your domestic policy, government policy, and what might be going on in your countries.  The term is agent provocateur. Learn what this phrase means. Agent provocateur. Okay. In Canada, just to give you an example, I guess the WTO, agent provocateurs, this time they happen to be undercover cops, okay, that dressed in like all black, put on masks to hide their faces, went to a peace rally, and it was a peaceful rally with parents and children. Okay, this was in Quebec, and they grabbed rocks, pretended to be part of the protesters, and they tried to start a riot. The only reason that they were found out was because the organizer of that peace rally noticed something very peculiar about those three agent provocateurs. They were all wearing the same type of boots.  And what type of boots were they wearing? They were wearing police-issued, basically what the police force wears in that city, right? So they confronted them, and these three police officers that were given orders from higher up to go into this peace rally where there were children, women, couples, elderly, doing a legal demonstration of the economic conference, global conference that was taking place.  Now what happened when the... I'm sorry if I'm missing chat, by the way, I need to tell the story so people understand what's going on. The protest organizers that called these people out, cornered them and said, hey, who are you guys? We want your names and everything. And then these guys slowly made it to the police line. They whispered something to the police officers on the line, and the police officers, these three agent provocateurs, were taken into custody, pretend arrested, and then they were released. It came out later in court that everything that I just said was a fact.  No one in the police force was prosecuted, charged, no one. I believe the police leader that gave these orders was promoted.  Before you participate in anything, question who the instigators of violence are, because more often than not, they are agent provocateurs.


I'm Fortis Danascos, geologist and physical therapist teacher in secondary education in Greece with a master's degree in special education. I currently teach 150 students at the first and the second class of the high school. It's a lot of interest in geoscience as we are doing projects and lots of workshops on geoscience. The positive thing in my school is that I have the big support of my headmaster, which is not geoscience. In this year's General Assembly I participate as geoscience education field officer for Greece. My position as geoscience education field officer allows me to be close to the educational events in my country and collaborate with students and teachers on geoscience and environmental projects. I'm looking forward to the sessions on Wednesday according to the challenges and perspectives for the science of volcanoes in the current decade and the earthquake hazard and societal risk. What was the interesting memory from the two past EGU General Assemblies is when I asked the late chair of the educational committee of EGU Quiz King for the participation of a group of my students with a special interest in geoscience, which I was allowed to do. And also the interesting thing was the fact that we talked and we met online with a teacher from Nigeria and the setting was impressive and made a very good impression on my students. There are three geological places, very important in Greece, where I would like to visit with my students. The first is the Acropolis of Paleontology, which is in Pikermi. And all the excavations in this area have found an impressive skeleton remains of at least 50 species. And also where we always go with my students is Lavrio, which is famous and known from the era of Pericles. When Athens showed the cultural flourishing, economic prosperity and also strong power because of the silver mines, who gave them the opportunity to create an important war and commercial fleet. Also, another place is the island of Tilos in Dotecanes, where there are the last elephants in Europe. They became small because the island was very small and they couldn't accommodate the elephants, so they tried to survive, they adopted to the new conditions and became nano. Nano up to 1.5 meters from the terrible eruptions of the volcanoes of Santorini. Everything was covered and about 4,000 years ago the nano elephants disappeared, having lived in the island for about 46,000 years. Goodbye to all of you, hope to see you in Vienna, General Assembly 2023.