I've been looking for several weeks. I know we have some tough issues coming up and I wanted to discuss this agenda with you this morning. Before I turn to specific issues, let me just remind you that highest priorities, the one that you shared with keeping a Republican majority in the Senate over the past four and a half years has given great support. And for that I thank you and the team work has served as well all of us. And it's this special unity that will continue to work for us now and right through November of 1986. Now I just mentioned the deficit here and I know that several of you, Lauren, Phil, others have been working on deficit reduction plans. And I made some suggestions in this area myself and have repeatedly called for a line item veto. I've asked the Congress to balance budget constitutional amendment and I've sent budget recommendations to the Congress outlining specific areas for funding reductions. And I welcome all of you to reduce the deficit but work with you to reach some viable method for doing this. But I hope these deficit plans can be considered on their own and not as just amendments to the deficit. We need to get clean and definite bill. And I know you will soon consider one issue where teamwork will be critical and that is increasing the debt ceiling. Jim Baker tells me we've already reached our current ceiling of $1 trillion, $824 billion. And our cash balance will be exhausted by October 7th. I expect the Democrats will force Republican votes to pass the deadline as they've done before. And I know that this isn't an easy vote for any of them. I don't like it either. Just as anxious as you are to get to the real cause of our problem, which is the debts. The moment we have a responsibility for the American people to honor our financial commitments, both here and abroad. So I ask you to pass the deadline. There's another item I want to discuss with you and that's our tax reform proposal. You might have heard a rumor about that. As you know, I've been on the road quite a bit recently talking about tax reform. The reception I've had is very encouraged. If you find yourself in a town of 14,000 people and you're talking to over 20,000 people and not going around it, and you've been standing there for a couple of hours in the sun, you figure they must be interested in tax reform. As a matter of fact, they have made very elaborate banners and signs. They have as big of that wall over there in support of the tax reform. There is strong support out there. Changes in the current tax code to ensure fairness, simplicity, and economic growth. I think there's also a lack of understanding in part of many people yet as to what is in that program. I know that time is short, particularly with a complex issue. Pressure will come from many interest groups who may resist some of these changes. But I believe we must move this year to complete action on tax reform. And again, I ask for your cooperation. I think I've talked long enough here. I'm anxious to hear what's on your mind. So I'll ask our majority leader to open the discussion with any comments he may have. First of all, Mr. President, thank you for inviting us. We want to indicate that we certainly share your view with reference to the Republican majority after the 1986 election. And we're very optimistic. I think the chances are excellent in understanding some requirements that we didn't want to happen. But they both promised to be certain that the seat would be maintained, retained, sustained, whatever. So we're fairly hopeful in that area. I would also indicate to be, as you pointed out, the agenda is going to be rather a busy one the next 30 to 60 to 90 days. Debt ceiling, of course, is the most immediate thing we'll have to deal with. There are a number of very good amendments floating around. The Graham-Rudman amendment is one of those. I was really enthusiastic about it until I saw the Washington Post that indicated it was good this morning. I want to go back and take another look at it. That amendment, I think, is one that puts us back in the sort of the mold of fiscal responsibility, deficit reduction. I just shown at this table a recent Lou Harris poll where he's told the American people on whether Republicans in Congress or Democrats can do the best of all these areas. And he points out that in every benchmark we've improved our position over last year, particularly in the area of deficit reduction, we picked up a number of points as far as Republicans in Congress are concerned. And so many of us believe that this might be an opportunity that I can understand the need for a clean debt ceiling. I share the view Bob Fack would probably express. But that's the matter that may take some debate. There are a number of amendments. I won't go through all the amendments, but I would like to put the line item veto on there. The armed strong has an amendment on rescission. Senator Sanders has an amendment. Somebody else says there may be South Africa legislation, art, Jordan arms, anything to be offered on the debt ceiling. We also have the reconciliation bill. And I'll just mention that it's yet to be completed. We have a number of appropriation bills. We also have a farm bill that I think is key to Republican successes or chances in 1986. We have a number of farm state senators and a number of farm state senators where the polls indicate that the farmers are more than a little displeased with Republicans. So we have a real problem there. We've been trying to figure out something that's within the budget, as you requested, and as I think you've probably requested. And it'll still be perceived as a positive step for the American farm. Jordan arms sales, that's just been received that notification trade. I think Mr. President, in my view, your speech was very helpful.  I'm advised by the distinguished senator from South Carolina, Senator Thurmond, whether or not that passes or whether or not a veto will be sustained. And then we have tax reform. And I think it makes a point, we don't quarrel with any, I'm doing it, just a question of whether we can do it this year. If we don't receive it, we can't pass it. The Constitution says the House acts first until Thanksgiving. I don't believe the thought-back would can mark it up and pass it, go through a conference and have it on the President's desk by the end of the year. That seems most unlikely possibility. But we're not unlimited. And if they give it to us, we'll act on it, and we can't act on it until we receive it. Let me just get something. The other night I was speaking to the Senator here at the Inner Circle. And I went something that was an amazing pre-section of God. And without a final election, we know that there are going to be some legitimate primaries. And I harked back to 1966 when I ran for governor of California. That was the first year of the 11th Commence that I was born in California. It was the 11th Commence that I shall not speak ill of another Republican. But God bless them the better in Republican women. They passed a resolution statewide that they would not support any Republican candidate who violated the primaries, the 11th Commence. And so we had a campaign in which the Lord and the Governor raised over a half-dozen months. But no one ran against another Republican. You ran against the Democratic incumbent that you were trying to get rid of. And it worked. And none of the years have gone by, I think we've kind of forgotten. And I made a proposal to these people who are going to be supporting our candidates at the Inner Circle. That they should use their influence because theirs is principally a fundraising thing. To insist that we go back to recognizing and practicing that 11th Commence. And believe me, it works. Because if you can't be against each other in the primaries, one is going to win. And then the opponents for their campaign and the general have all the things that the other Republicans said about this. When they can quote and say, look what his own party said about him or her. And if they don't have that to go on. But if all of the primaries have been pointing their finger at right, there should be a Republican elected in state. The Democratic incumbent. Why, you could have a Senate without Craster. Mr. President, I can understand the sentiment for a clean debt ceiling. Because obviously we don't want to get it tied up with a bunch of extraneous issues that really hamper our ability to do what we know we have to do. And that is to raise the debt ceiling to pay the bills that after all Congress ran up. But I would urge you to look at the possibility of using this vehicle to not only pay the bills, but call in the credit cards. What could be more appropriate than using the debt ceiling where we admit that the budget process has failed to try to reform the budget process? And let me remind you that the problem in trying to do that, the way the rules for the Congress are set up in the Budget Act, is that in the House, if you try to reform the Budget Act, it's referred to the one committee where all the members are appointed by the Speaker. So this may well be the only shot we get to try to reform the budget process and set out a concrete proposal during your administration where we could balance the budget by the end of this decade. And I know that's something that you support. And as a principal co-sponsor of this provision, I can assure you that if we make the effort, that number one, I'm convinced we can win in the Senate. And we can send this over to Tip O'Neill and let him tell the American people where he stands on an issue where by four to one margin they think it's more important than any other issue. But if we do fail, I can guarantee you that having had a chance to debate the number one issue in the country, that if we go through the process and we end up losing, I for one would turn around and support the debt ceiling. So I'm not trying to be an obstructionist. I want to use a vehicle that focuses the public attention on the number one problem in the country to remind the people that the Republican Party is the party of fiscal responsibility and a balanced budget. So I urge you to look at that proposal to see if it might be something that you can support. Well, I think our fear about it doesn't have to be with something as worthwhile as that. Our fear is that because it is an absolute essential thing that you have to have, that that's the opportunity that there are some who seize upon that to get things that they know otherwise we would or could never approve. I admit that I was talking here that I found myself willing to compromise and accept an amendment with regard to the lineup. Mr. President, in terms of tax reform for a moment, obviously if tax reform is put off until next year, the coming on of the congressional elections will make it that much more difficult to resist the special interest groups. Bob Dole's observation is of course correct that the Senate can't act until the House sends us legislation. May I suggest that the White House, in its political operation in this connection, begin to make that point to the American people, that it is the House and the Democrat-controlled House and the Democrat Party that is holding up tax reform. The public Senate is ready to act on it this year, but it has to wait for the House. The communications I've seen from the White House, including your great visit to my state, I didn't hear that point made and I think it would be useful putting heat on the House if the White House would begin to make that point. I'm worried, very frankly, I'm worried that he may have his sleeve hanging on long enough to get it over as late as possible and then have an item in which he can say, look at the Democrats passed this tax reform and the Republicans preferred to go home and wouldn't act on it. Now I agree with you, we've given them some issues for the past few years, every once in a while and we shouldn't give them another one, but let's make sure that they are not cooking up some of them even when they pass it, but they can do this to us. President, with the trade issue of the tax reform and the entire protectionism, I am very frustrated with the direction of our energies being generated more in the merits of one particular application of protectionism opposed to what I feel is what Americans basically want in America's industry and that's access to foreign markets. And I see a great effort by the White House to urge my colleagues not to support the text of bills, those shoe bills become a task and that in my opinion is not really what we're looking for as far as relief. We have accessibility to foreign markets and if our energies are expended in opening up those markets, which is really an equitable reception in the matter of free trade, well then I think we would accomplish basically our purpose which is to compete throughout the world on the basis of a free enterprise system of trade but getting mired down and while I know it's great to adopt policy that's uniform and then you have behind you these particulars, I think these matters of trade are such that the American public is going to want to see some positive achievements and I just don't believe they're coming along fast enough because I don't think we're specifically asking for it. For example, the matter of automobiles, the Japanese are bringing in this country 1.8 minutes, all those automobiles come in in Japanese carriers, Japanese ships or ships controlled by Japan yet our units and our steamship companies are willing to go to Japan, build automobile carriers in return for contracts to advertise Nissan and so forth but the administration won't come up and say to Japan this is what we would like, we would like to participate, we're the country of origin but we're not participating and I think to expend our energies internally fighting the merits of protectionism what all we want is a fair shape, I would respectfully suggest that we direct more of our energies into demanding, simple justice for its partner accessible. Well, this has been our position in all of the economic standards ever since I've been here. Is this our drive for free trade? We've made some progress with some of our trading partners just because of this insistence. We still want another round of the gap to get at this very problem and we're going to continue to work on that. I still have to say that when it comes to protectionism that no one can win in a trade war and that's what it has done. We'll do everything with regard to unfairness, the thing where you say they're holding up a market of theirs and shutting us out of economics there, we're going to use our economic persuasion of power that we have and we'll continue to do that. But we've had it, the classic example of all was the smooth hauling in the Great Depression and I was around looking for my first job in that Great Depression and if you look at the patent of that, how in 1929 before the crash smooth hauling had come and one house had passed it and you had the big, great black day of the stock of the market going down and then you had a great campaign on that it should not then come through the other house and so forth and the recut, believe it or not, the market actually began to recut a bunch of what it had lost in that big day and then if you look at the schedule I had here before me, I've got it in my desk you'll find that then when it went ahead and passed at both houses over a thousand economists petitioned the president to not sign and there was another drop, almost as big as it was and of course worldwide it spread the depression and there we were with our 25% unemployment that Great Depression, the only thing that brought us out of the depression was World War II but it was a trade war that would have still been, if it was still going on there hadn't been the other kind of war I don't know what would have happened, I think it would have been a complete collapse and for us to have been down that road I know we talked and everyone's got to feel concerned about the people they're going to lose a job but all right what about the people that lost a job in the automobile industry simply because they switched to robots for welding instead of a man at every welding spot we've always had industrial changes and yet as long as we find ourselves with more than 8 million more employees then we had a short time ago we must be doing something right more than when we came here we've got that many more employees so I think we just have to look at it now the funny turnaround that has happened the republicans were the ones that went for the high tear that was republican policy the democrats were the party of free trade until the democrats then a new deal made there on holy alliance with labor and all of a sudden there's been a turnaround and it's a funny thing to find out how much the republican party of the day is like an earlier democrat party and how the democratic party is the one that has definitely made the changes to protectionism and things of that kind but I think we've got to tread very lightly follow up? that's my very point if we have market accessibility I don't think we have fight internally over protectionism and I think if we demand that we receive what is equitable in that consideration and I think we're coming up to a very important philosophical point on this vote context because it's representative not of an effort to encourage protectionism but to met frustration over in that inequity that they're not addressing you know that in this whole trading balance that is somehow attributed to this we have not reduced our exports we're still the biggest in the world trade we've increased our imports because with our sound recovery which our trading partners have not shared their goods are bargains now as they recover and we're certainly trying to help them in every way this money begins to correspond in valuation to ours then we're going to see a change but I think we've got to recognize that in many instances when some things that we're talking about we're talking about people losing jobs here because of imports if you look at some of the countries we're talking about they actually have a trade imbalance with us that we're selling them more things and more dollars worth than they are than they're even selling to us and you have to say look if we suddenly shut out or close down on them on some particular product through protectionism that is one of their principle exports well they're just going to turn around and look at their own imports and say well we're going to climb down and shut the door on those American imports that we're buying there's one thing I've told I know some of you I'll repeat it anyway I always remembered when I was governor I picked up a truck home one night from the office and I hadn't seen one of them what he had in his bumper since it was the Great Depression that it was by America he was driving a Toyota and all of a sudden we lately had the cars there and the other had to look at it this way Toyota and Nissan that one has built and another one is going to build and I'm going to be planning our country to make them here they're going to hire Americans to make those cars they're building those plants with the dollars the American dollars that they got from Americans buying their cars but it all comes back to us in their investment here in this country Mr. President I would urge you to in the White House to give their strong support behind the grant Rudman proposal added to the deadline I can tell you from working I'm one of the class of 86 we were elected at the same time you were there's 16 of us in here that work the national debt at that time was less than a trillion we're getting ready to cross two trade and I can tell you that in my opinion that's probably the biggest liability that we have as far as re-election is the fact that the national debt has doubled since we've been in office and I think we need to show something concretely that we have actually done we have not been successful in getting the deficits under control this in my opinion is probably the best plan that I've seen that actually does show us by passing a law that will make us have some responsibility maybe if it needs to be amended let's amend it let's get behind something as a republican party and pass it I can't vote for the debt limit unless we have something like that on it and I guess there's probably several others in here likewise so it might help you pass the debt limit likewise that politically if we show that we pass something that shows some fiscal responsibility and send it then we make them address it over in the House the House would love a clean debt limit they didn't have to vote on it they haven't had to vote on anything responsibility so I just urge you to support this give us something so when we go back into our states say yes the debt limit did double in our first term but we're now on a track where it's going to be balanced in another four or five years don't worry about it we're not going to ignore that we're doing a lot of talking on this particular plan that we've been talking about to fill here at the table about a similar thing than before we knew about this so we're dragging on that let me give you some answers if I can some of you have them already about this idea that it is our big deficit and we did this for 50 years there's only one or two years of section we have run deficits more than 50 years and this is that we had both houses and now we've got five years here we had the one house the senate all the rest of us 50 years they have been in charge now the deficit is structured it is built in for the government structure and it was greatly worse in the late 60s and 70s after the great society was passed and Lyndon's program was going to put a war on poverty that's a low poverty law but if you look 1965 to 1980 the budget increased 1980 the budget was almost five times what it had been in 1965 the deficit was 50 times what it had been in 1965 and in 1980 before we came here was the largest deficit up until that time 74 billion dollars and yes it is bigger now as the whole economy has gotten bigger not that much bigger if you look at it as a percentage of gross national problem instead of just counting the actual dollars so this is a thing that is structurally built in and this is what we have to turn around and so far we've had opposition if we've gotten the cost of beginning in 1981 we ask for in our budget proposals the deficit would be some 50 billion dollars less right now but we have to we're going to have to be the ones to face up and challenge them with programs that never should have been passed in the first place and should be eliminated with further reductions in others and it's going to be our responsibility to do it so I'm for all of you on this proposal but again don't listen to those ideas the debt the national debt at a time when we were having the highest tax increases in our history before we got a national debt tripled even though that only brought up a little bit it was not yesterday going to the other video God only knows where to go if we don't get this structure changed but what have we done that anyone could point to in these four years I've seen this thing and even some of us are content to say oh it's the defense spending and it was the tax cut program we started in 1981 and didn't go into effect completely until when in 1984 but that doesn't figure out because in these four years of ours with our tax cut revenues for the government had increased 42% as of today but spending has increased 60% now before everybody jumps on if they're trying to do us a favor defense spending today is 26% of the budget it was almost 24% in the Carter administration and his five year projection as to what defense spending would be actually is higher than what we've been spending so the things that they're trying to tag and blame on us it wasn't the tax cut it considered a potential labor pool today the highest percentage of that pool is employed that has ever been employed in our nation's history so every figure you're going to sound like blame but I'm with you and I think what we're all talking about and we all get together is a program not just this thing here or that thing there but to save a few dollars here or there that they have a program that then they've got to bust a budget and know that they're trying to break a program that is aimed at balancing the budget and I say I guess you know what I'm coming for in my judgment the race next year is going to depend on two things one is the way we handle the deficit and the other is the way we handle the trade policy now since you've been in the text of industry has lost four hundred and fifty five hundred and fifty thousand jobs my state's lost twenty four thousand jobs you've got textiles in parallel in every state in this nation two million people engage in textiles in this country two million more are interrelated jobs and I just want to say that more than one head of all the goods used in this country in textiles in parallel comes from abroad in this country John Hines had both textiles jobs in this state and he had steel jobs one tenth of all the manufacturing in this country is in textiles one hundred and twenty three billion deficit in trade sixty and a half billion is in textiles alone fifteen percent but the first department says that textiles rank second to steel in a matter of national defense in ten years it's estimated you won't have any textile industry here where you're going to get your uniforms from, where you're going to get your parachutes from to have a walk I just want to point you attention to the fact that this is a violent industry in this country and it's being dissipated I think you've made the best product and I've said it publicly in the thirty one years I've been dissent but on this matter you've had bad advice and my journey you've got to do something about this matter I've been waiting waiting to see what's going to be done I put off in everywhere I could and three days before I see you notice against this bill all the points against it one point was mentioned by the head to consume billions of dollars well I've got some things that a share could cost $8 or something, you save almost $7 cents if the goods are made overseas. Who's making the money? It's safe. It's hard to consume what's being saved. It's the retailers and the brokers making the money. And that's the crowd that you're about to now contact over this country. Retailers, brokers and others to propagandize the Congress to stop this fear. Now I just want you to know the facts because somebody has misled you. This is the press attention that I'm supposed to be. They can pull around and everything. They say bad advice. Maybe it's bad advice I'm giving because I'm giving the advice. President, could you have trouble having an agreement on some of these? I don't know what you plan to do on the debt seeker. It would be helpful if you would go and walk the thing on the debt seeker and they could have a letter to say, you know, read to the bill if there's anything on it. It's very frank that you're going to have to handle this on the floor. I think Graham and his brother had a good chance of passage and I don't think that's the only thing they had a good chance of passage. You know, I've cluttered up the bill. I don't think that happens in the House. But if I had a letter that said you'll veto it, if there's anything on it other than the debt seeker extension, that might be helpful. So I can remember you're going to respond to strong trade because Frank Borkowski touched a point and strong touched a point with two different points and I don't know how you resolve it. Frank's writing about opening foreign markets is a valid one. How much it helps us in terms of the trade deficit but psychologically it makes a world of difference that our business leaders aren't coming to us and say, I can sell in Austria, I can sell in Canada, I can't get into Japan, I can't get into Hong Kong or I can't sell insurance in Korea or whatever it is. Those are actions that you've got to be prepared, Mr. President, to take retaliatory actions against them, maybe closing some of their markets in this country if they won't let us in. That is the protections. That's retaliation. Secondly, you've got to be prepared to defend against unfair trade practices. Now notice the semiconductor industries, while I don't know if the allegations are true, but if the allegations are true, it's unfair trade practices. They're dummy. The greater problem you face, however, the way we face is that most of the industries that are going to want protection are going to want protection against fair competition. Many way trade differences and I was struck by a witness that testified on little things rather than big things. You see the difference? Because on the Israeli-U.S. free trade agreement, which the administration supported when we passed and is going to go into effect in over 10 years, we'll have free trade with Israel. Now, it's a small country. They can flood us with textiles inside it. We'll make that much difference. But the usual witnesses appeared against the textile industry and the leather industry as well. There was one witness speaking for the textile and apparel industry. Bob Eisen is in good luck. And I posed the question to him. Mr. Eisen, could the American textile and apparel industry compete against foreign fair competition in the United States? Fair. He paused for a moment. He said, textiles, yes, apparel. Those are the fundamental questions you're going to have to resolve as certain industries may not be able to compete against fair competition and wage differentials are not counted as unfair. They cannot exist in this country any longer. So whether you're going to protect them from a standpoint of national security or whatnot, and there are tough decisions to make. And the great reason I was so struck and how a little difference the next witness represented the California avocado growers. Didn't want the Israeli avocados. And I thought to myself, national defense, what can you do with an avocado? Mock hand grenades? And that is the issue that's going to come. And Strom puts it very well. I'm going to be on your side. It's not Strom's side. But what our manufacturers are going to be asking is for protection against fair competition where they can no longer meet the competition, mainly because of extraordinary wage rating differences. I don't know how you solve that. But part of the help in solving that is the first two things I talked about and Craig talked about, open foreign markets and very firm action against unfair foreign countries. I appreciate that. Let me just say that the other end of the hall in the East Room, short time ago, some, few of you were present also with all the trade leaders gathered there. I made a speech on trade there where I emphasized that we are going to move in every direction where there is unfair practice. Up until now, the 301 actions and so forth have been brought to us by the industries and the trade representatives and so forth. And then we have taken action. This is the first time that I've ever said we're not going to wait for that or wait for an industry to complain. We're going to take the action ourselves and that's going to be our policy and we will be doing it. Where it comes to the difference in simply wage rates, we do have a high standard of living in the world. If you go all the way back to that economist Adam Smith, the basis of trade, if it's fair, this is not sliding over into giving anything else. The basis of free trade has always been those who can produce the best for the least have gotten the market. And we have always managed to have enough things that as I say, we're still the greatest or the greatest exporter in the world today. And how do some of these lesser developed countries, how do they become a trading partner and how do they develop an economy in which they can now raise the standard of living for their people unless they have a market for things to sell and if we turn around, as I say, and look at other directions we find in buying other things from us. So it isn't a simple problem and I know what is this dressing problem for an industry that faces that competition and finds itself shrinking but you have to turn around and look at what industries are growing because of our ability to provide something to these other countries. Now the fact of a trade imbalance now I'm not talking about some industry that is having a state out there but just the matter of a trade imbalance in all the years of the Great Depression when we were flat on our backs with government putting ads on the radio saying don't leave home looking for work there is no work. We had a favorable trade balance. Now Japan had an unfavorable trade balance in all those 20 years after the war when it was coming up to the level that it has today. As a matter of fact they've got a deficit that's a percentage of gross national product there is comparable to ours but the trading balance has never been a setback. When we had a trade imbalance in the 90 or so years from the beginning of the 1800s on up through that century we had a trade imbalance against us when we were growing and becoming the greatest economic power in the world the greatest economic growth we've ever had. It isn't a simple problem we want to cooperate and work with all of you and get a signal here that we're all supposed to go back to work. President, I would like to say that I don't share your enthusiasm for tax reform and that I think that we have pooled with tax codes as you often very frankly. I also would respectfully suggest that if you had talked to the members of the inner circle about tax reform or talked to people in general they would tell you that it is a low priority compared to the deficit and those of us who talked to the inner circle and indeed pulled the inner circle found that to be true and I find that to be true among my constituency as well. I think it's a rather poor itself to try to talk to my constituency at least about a percent of gross national products about 50 years of democratic hegemony and say that this is their fault and that all of us in the last four or five years I find that a difficult thing to solve. I might just say that I also agree very much with your trade policy and also agree very much with the ideas of the Electoral Command that you said a little earlier. I must also respectfully tell you that your own White House is not always abide by that rule. I try very carefully to do so myself but I don't find that members of the White House do an obligation. I was particularly struck by the way that Mrs. Heckler's resignation was handled and I could get the same reaction very frankly in the same action in the White House that I do in her agency when I have a constituent problem I would be very pleased indeed. So I can't paint for her against the fall of anyone frank. I have known her over the years and don't have any particular reason for defending her except that I believe very strongly in the Eleventh Amendment and would be happy to discuss how I think the members of the White House could enhance that belief. Let me just say with regard to that last thing I am planning before the day is over to amplify what I said to the press as they said angrily yesterday. All of this whole campaign this isn't the first time. The lynch mob which consists of a great many of the press has done this to any number of people in our administration and they leave off on one having done their hatch a job or tried to go to another. I had asked Margaret Heckler to serve as an ambassador. I really wanted her to do that. No criticism of her job nor have I criticized it at all and all this talk of dumping and everything else is just that and that's what I'm going to tell the press. I have no... I quite understand that. However, my problem is the fact that the great deal preceded your own discussion with Mrs. Heckler and it was a matter of reporting it through the press and having her pretty well tried and ordered beforehand. You asked me do we have people that leave in the administration as well as on the hill and they do, yes we do. If you ask me if we tried to find them have we beaten our heads on the walls saying what we'll do if we can ever locate some of these, you bet. On the other hand, I do think the press magnifies that and many times to say what they want to say relies on that unnamed source and then just goes ahead with their own story. But I'm going to try to quiet that. She's taken a bum rap and undeserved and we're not going to hold still for it. And as I say, these are my plans. I haven't had enough good against coming here for breakfast and talking to our people about timing and so forth, but I'm going to say that and some of the other points you raised about the tax reform, is that the main thing is the bulk of the people in this country do not know what is in the tax reform. Now for anyone to suggest that we don't need tax reform, good Lord, the only thing that Jimmy Carter said that I ever agreed with is when he said our tax system is a disgrace. 250,000 people work for General Electric and pay more tax than General Electric does. Well it's making $8 billion in profit. A tax system that has people, I know when I was getting some of that if money in Hollywood, my biggest problem was to try and avoid a 94% tax bracket. And how many times people like myself out there offered a script or a picture said you know I can't make another picture this year because I'm going to get a dime and a dollar if I make it. And when you didn't make that picture, how many times that picture wasn't made so the other people that were sitting at home from the bit players to the grips to the technicians, they didn't get that phone call saying report to the studio we're making a picture. Well this is the kind of tax policy that we've had. Now we've helped some with the reductions that we made in 81 and they paid off. We're getting more money at those rates than our friends on the other side of the aisle at those rates. But tax reform is basically going to give the people of this country a tax reduction without reducing the revenues that the government is going to get. I don't know how anyone could argue with a simple thing like that. And I'm not going to give up on the fact that your constituency is not pounding on your door on this. As I said they don't know what it's all about yet. And we haven't been able to do that. I heard a discussion program in the air between some of the correspondents, some of the leading commentators and they were discussing how they weren't going to talk anymore. I go out and make speeches on trying to explain the tax reform. They weren't going to report that anymore because they reported it once so it isn't news. In fact I'm in a different town speaking to a different audience. No they find something to talk about getting up on the dais or that was the joke I told so they're not reporting. We're going to have to get the message out what is the tax reform program? What does it do for the people? What it does for the people is it catches up with some people that right now we're losing about 95 billion dollars a year in people that are not paying the tax they fairly should be paying.  They're evading or avoiding, not evading, avoiding the tax legally through the provisions that are in the tax code and that we can correct and that shouldn't be there but I know I'm going way over there. Thank you.


What does get-up stand up for music mean? I think it's an appreciation of the importance of music in the world that surrounds us today. There's probably more music being made and consumed in more different ways than ever before. There are more people singing, creating music, listening to music, but at the same time I think we have to look after music. We have to look after the fundamentals of music, which is what copyright is all about. We have to look after the creators of music, the people that spend their lives, their creativity producing music. We have to make sure that they get properly rewarded, that their rights are protected and everybody who's involved in that food chain, in that creation of music, whose livelihoods depend ultimately on all of us getting properly remunerated for what we do. So I think it's right that we focus on that. Streaming models are coming more and more into focus and we need to understand what that means for all of us in this business. Digital is challenging us all, but at the same time it's opening up whole new markets, whole new distribution channels, it's a whole new way that we can reach a lot more people in more creative ways than we ever could before and as I was saying there's a lot more music now being consumed. The challenge for us is to make sure that people get properly rewarded for that creativity.


We look forward to our second plenary machine in the Scottish Parliament. I hope you had an interesting evening last night and that you enjoyed and enjoyed the music. We will hear a further series of presentation, before we move into the policy discussions, from exploring them further. Without further ado, I component the talk of Dr Benjamin Barber—cllw Valve of the author if mares ruled the world to share his thoughts on the culture of the city, the city is culture. Good morning. Is everybody awake? Good, because I'm not, but I will try in the course of the next few minutes to be awake as we introduce our second day, Presiding Officer Jonathan and ministers from many different places. I'm very pleased and honoured to be able to talk with you to continue the conversation that we started yesterday about the city and culture, the city and arts, and I'll just try to put a few fairly blunt and provocative ideas on the table. I am an American, so it will be acceptable to you that I do so, I think, since we're known for our bluntness, and I do want to be blunt because we're at a crucial time in the world. Just look at the morning headlines in any paper around the world and we know that things are not well. The state, not just of the Union, but the state of the world is in desperate condition and needs ideas, needs innovation, needs particularly the solace, the consolation and the contributions that art and culture can make that are so often marginalised, siloed and put aside. And so I want to say a few words this morning about the arts and about culture and their specific and unique relationship to the city, to the urban, to urbanity, and suggest that in that tight relationship between the city and culture, the city as culture lays the possibility of what I would be so bold as to call a governance revolution in how we address and talk about the desperate problems that we face today. Let me start with a quote from Javier Nito, the president of the Institute for Advanced Architecture in Catalonia, who says, more than ever before the city will be culture, a space of freedom and contact, a space for creation and exchange, a quality public space at the human scale with efficient energy sustainable systems of mobility where people are the essential core in what today defines the values of the city. So he makes a point which I think is essential, which is that when we think about and talk about the city, we don't think about the city and culture, but we think about the city or ought to, the city as culture, that there's a sense in which those two terms are synonymous, that we are talking about the very same thing, that we can't talk about culture without talking about the urban and we can't talk about urbanity without talking about the arts and about culture. Let me just say before I move on to talk specifically about the city a few more words about what mediates that vital relationship between the city and culture because there are three key terms I want to put on the table that I hope we can talk about in the course of the day in addition to the other rich provocations that have already been presented. I want to talk about the ideas of first the public and how that understanding of the public can mediate art and urbanity. I want to talk about the idea of democracy and the way in which culture and the city are both born around and inspire and generate the idea of democracy. And finally I want to talk about a term that I prefer to the one that's been used over the last day or so, that term globalization, which has certain negative connotations. I want to talk about interdependence and the way in which a world 21st century world defined by interdependence mediates the relationship between art and the city culture in the city in important ways. And let me just say a word about each of those and then go on to talk specifically about the role that the city can play. The idea of the public, of public space, of what constitutes a public is absolutely essential both to culture and to the city and under siege today. Not so much from the specific ideologies of neoliberal market philosophy and the idea that private is better than public, the idea that the state or government is the problem and the market is the solution as more a result of privatization, commercialization, the demeaning, the belittling of the very idea of the public, the idea of us. Yet the city is us, it's about a common community, it's about collectivity and individualism, powerful as it is, the market and market capitalism, productive as they are, fall short of grasping our essential communal relationship. Edward Glazer said we're an urban species, a kind of update on Aristotle's where a political animal, a zoo on political, that we have in common our commonality, that we work together collectively, cooperatively and that we are larger as we are together, smaller as we are apart much as we celebrate our individualism, our private liberty and the possibilities of the market. So the idea of the public gives birth in the political realm to the idea of citizenship the key base, the person who is like other people because they share a common space, there's been a lot of discussion about identity politics and what separates us but the word citizenship, citwainite, citwainite and citwain have the same etymology, points to what we share in common as citizens we occupy a common space as blacks and whites, Muslims and Christians, ethics of one kind or another, speakers of different languages, we are distinct but as citizens we put that aside to share common ground, public purposes and citizenship grows directly out of that idea of the public citizenship doesn't always extend to everybody one of the large questions today is who is and who is not a citizen but the aspiration to citizenship is an aspiration to commonality and the struggle in my country in the united states for example has been a two or three hundred year old struggle to expand citizenship to encompass not just white male property owners but everyone and today the question is those who are in the country not officially as citizens what is their role in citizenship but citizenship is an aspirational public that points to what we share and not to what divides us it has in common in culture with the idea of an audience early Greek theater began with one actor and an audience a religious preacher and a congregation and everyone I think knows that one of the great strengths of art is that it's not about artists working in solitude but it's about art and audience spectacle is the french word inspector the presence of an audience an audience is a kind of cultural citizenry if you like and the audience is involved in the making of art not just the consuming of art and no play no dance not even a poem is complete until it has an audience until an audience participates in taking it in and understanding it and giving it back so the idea of the public is the first the second is the idea of democracy back when I worked with Bill Clinton in the 1990s he asked me to write an essay for his national commission on the arts and I wrote a piece on imagination and I said this and I'll say it very very simply that democracy and art share one fundamental faculty and that is empathy imagination there is no art without imagination and there is no democracy without imagination bigotry prejudice are nothing other than the absence of imagination the inability to look across to another person and look beyond their skin color or their religion or their ethnicity bigots are women and men without imagination and we live in a world of defective imagination today in so many parts of the world where people can't imagine beyond Islam beyond Christianity beyond their ethnicity beyond their gender they can't imagine that the other across the aisle is also human and empathy and imagination make that possible that's why for me the most important feature of education in a democracy is arts education because it's in the arts that we learn and understand the faculty of imagination and what it does to allow us to see and be with others and to understand and be with others is what allows us to create a public to create common space to create a citizenry and it's only the lack of imagination that makes us feel the citizenry is not large enough to encompass people with dark skins or people with a different religion so imagination plays such a powerful role and as you wander around Edinburgh looking at the extraordinary artistic events think for a minute at what is which faculty is being most appealed to and it is your imagination as you wander around and there are people from all over the world here arts events and performances from all over the world they kindle our imagination they allow us to identify with others to see others to understand the other and in this world today the problem of the other which is not their problem but our problem the inability to see the other as part of our community lays at the heart of so many of the difficulties that we face and the arts and culture provides such a direct way into imagination as important for art as it is for democracy and then the third of these three features interdependence and here we come to the heart of a fundamental change in the world for four or five hundred years the world was defined by territorial sovereign nation states independent nation states in which we lived out our lives and in which the problems and challenges we faced were all given by the territorial entities when I was growing up in New York City in the 1940s my mother used to say don't go to Brooklyn there's a virus over there you might get ill nowadays we worry about the west Nile virus the Hong Kong flu Ebola coming across borders hiv hiv global pandemics it's not just medicine sans frontier it's maladies sans frontier disease without borders we live in a world of disease without borders immigration without borders markets without borders technology without borders crime without borders terrorism without borders and yet it's a still a world of bordered independent 18th century sovereign states and in that dilemma is the very heart of the political problem of the modern world 18th century independent sovereign institutions confronting 21st century interdependent problems that cross all borders and yet we do not have civic or political institutions that really cross borders we have those that try like the United Nations system and the Bretton Woods institutions but because they are rooted in the sovereign state system they are also like the security council limited by the sovereign state system so interdependence is a mandate for cooperation and exchange at the heart of the making of art at the heart of the making of a just politics so in those three ideas interdependence democracy and the idea of the public art and urbanity come together and put the city in a special place today and I don't have to remind you of how special cities are a couple of months ago I was in Brussels at a european council meeting where one of the one of the officials said yes the city is a very interesting level of governance and I said no it's not it's not a level of governance at all the city is the quintessential and original human community it is how we define ourselves we often talk in patriotism and nationalism about the countries we come from but when I ask people where you're from when I asked Ms Mandela where she was from she said oh Durbin she didn't say South Africa she could have but she said Durbin and you ask me and I'll say New York and somebody else will say Enboro because the towns and cities from which we come where we're born where we grow up go to school take jobs get married where we pray and play and get old and die they are truly our identity it is at that level that we think about who we are what we share and what our communities are and that I believe is an extraordinary civic advantage it's also where art happens it's where culture happens so I say culture is the city and what happens at that level is that we feel the possibility of solving the everyday problems that are supposed to comprise the political agenda if I look around the world today I see a series of nation states busy posturing talking etiology explaining how different they are from one another fighting about their borders and territories and often trying to destroy one another so often 21st century politics looks like 19th century politics wars of national liberation and independence countries still trying to win their inter independence in an interdependent world these remarks have no reference to Scotland by the way but I do think but I do think that we are living in a world where the ancient and understandable impulse for independence is fundamentally contradictory to the basic need in the 21st century for interdependence for more togetherness more integration more cooperation and that whether it's in the Ukraine or Catalonia whether it's in Afghanistan or Iraq whether it's here in the United Kingdom trying to separate and divide and retrieve ancient identities organized around nationalism is whatever else it may be about is contrary to the spirit of an age that demands if we are to survive at all demands increased cooperation demands a loosening of borders not a tightening of borders demands less sovereignty and more collaboration and that is simply a mandate of the realities of the 21st century and it's one I want to suggest that cities are particularly well suited as venues of culture and civility and multiculturalism and trust particularly well suited to undertake if we spend a little less time talking about nation states and sovereign states and independence and spend a little more time thinking about cities and mayors and interdependence think about cities as these extraordinary civic communities of exchange that lie on the crossroads of the world 90% of cities are on water of some kind rivers streams lakes ocean seas of course because they are medium of exchange of transactionalism of transformation that's why cities are multicultural while nations are monoculture it may be the English people the Scottish people the Welsh people but in London and Birmingham and Cardiff and Edinburgh the whole world is present it has been for a long time because cities are about trade and exchange and about cultural and cultural exchange and that means that they are rooted in the idea of the acceptance and toleration and even the embracing of difference and why when you go to a city you can't any longer talk about one ethnicity one people one religion but you're talking about all of them together and that makes cities look much more like the world nations don't look like the world they look like themselves but cities actually look like the world of multicultural of difference of transactionalism of transformation and that makes them I believe ideal entities not just for the practices of art of culture of trade of business of entrepreneurship of ingenuity of creativity all those things that happen in the city but it makes them instruments of civic cooperation it makes them instruments that allow us to enlarge citizenship from being a citizen of New York or Tokyo or Durbin or Perth into a citizen of the planet because citizens of cities are in a certain sense already citizens of the planet they come from all over they share the differences they create communities based not on their specific identities they share a community that they create civility in the city represent a created community created from imagination created from common goals created from public spaces that we make for ourselves the Edinburgh festival is glorious because it takes place in the great public spaces of Edinburgh of which it has a great many that's funny because we often think of the countryside as the open spaces and city is the closed spaces but it's in cities that public space the public square the commons is found and is exploited for the purposes of culture and exchange and education and growth and thus in time democracy as well a commons welcomes everybody in a way that nations cannot and do not so cities are a key to our future and the question I will leave with you as I finish my remarks this morning is whether there is a way to enhance the already extraordinary role of cities in global cooperation if I at time I would name for you 12 or 15 inner city associations which most of you will never have heard of say the United Nations to a child of 12 they all know what it is most of them will snicker a few will applaud but say United cities and local government say it clay say city net say city protocol name the associations that already exist in which cities cooperate and work together and most people will shake their heads United cities and local governments around for more than 100 years is the most important inner city association in the world nobody's ever heard of except perhaps a few people in this room because they're present and they've done such extraordinary work but I want to suggest that if we can build on inter city association if we can work with the architecture of civic cooperation that comes out of the public common spaces created by urbanity and culture we have a chance to create a different kind of global architecture an architecture of cooperation of openness of multiculturalism of creativity of entrepreneurship and of productivity and as a result jonathan said yesterday when we were talking he said this conference has to be not just about talking but about making something artists make things that's their great power they don't just think things and imagine things they make things that we share I want to suggest we make a new institution that can be part of a governance revolution I want to suggest that we make a new global institution we can call it a parliament of mayors a parliament of cities and assembly of cities which does the many things that the UN despite its brilliant intentions and its extraordinary leadership has been unable to do because it's rooted in nation states and that has created a global cooperative body capable of addressing climate change immigration disease security justice education equality the things we all aspire to at our best as citizens and so rarely achieve through the institutional devices of the nation state but which cities are so well suited with their rooting and culture in the arts in education and creativity to help us find a global parliament of mayors and if you like that idea go online at the interdependence movement dot org or come to Amsterdam on september 19th excuse the plug jonathan but I'll put it on on september 19th when the g4 dutch mayors of Amsterdam Rotterdam Utrecht and the Hague have invited mayors from around the world there'll be 40 or 45 cities there and 50 or 60 urban experts and associations to look at a planning process to convene a global parliament of mayors pilot as the beginnings of a governance revolution in which we take the extraordinary strengths that are twinned in the city and art in culture and urbanity and turn it into a cooperative principle for sustainability which our world desperately needs thank you very much benjamin thank you so much we now hear from award-winning singer writer and artistic director robin archer robin will present what exactly do we mean by the use of and value in the arts robin presiding officer thank you very much and thank you for your hospitality last evening it was excellent distinguished guests artists ladies and gentlemen if you climb to the top of the Eiffel tower and look down to the rooftop of the musée du cais brunlie you will see a large black and white painting it's called baramundi scales and is the work of leaner nyadby from the kimberley in remote northwest australia leaner began painting at the warman arts centre in her 50s and is now in her late 70s when the work was launched last year the woman's centre director who accompanied her to paris asked how she felt she said i could see my baramundi scales and it made me cry she was sad it is a painting of her country and in paris she missed her country the fact that she is now probably the most viewed australian Aboriginal artist ever makes no dent in what she really values and no change in her modest day to day life as she continues to sit on the ground in the red earth and paint some years ago when another equally revered australian male Aboriginal artist was brought to paris for the first time he was escorted to the louvre and went immediately to the shop he saw postcards bought a few and then when asked if they should proceed into the galleries he said no that was enough he'd seen the pictures there was no fetishising about the objects themselves he had seen the content and absorbed what they represented these responses offer a clue to the way australian indigenous artists traditionally valued art despite the facts that nine out of ten australians say that the arts are important and that contrary to popular belief more australians attend arts events than sporting events when australian artists bemoan the lack of centrality of art in australian life wesley enock the artistic director of the queensland theatre company and the first aboriginal man to head a major state company in australia reminds us that we need look no further than traditional aboriginal and torris straight island society to see that once there was no division between life and art visual representation both figurative and abstract dance song costume ceremony had ever combined with food drink hunting initiation birth and death in a seamless and rich weave of life when britain declared that huge continent people with thousands upon thousands of clans and languages and sophisticated artistic practice terra nullius that is nobody lived there so we can take it traditional life started to fall apart but those first peoples have survived and now while for many of them art may indeed be separated from life the newest and most adventurous of indigenous artists in australia can take the trauma of those past centuries and many of the ongoing present challenges and make great art from those awkward and painful truths danie mellor exhibiting during the centon mera festival is a good example it should not be surprising that a society built on squatocracy that is grab some land put offence around it protect it should develop should develop with values at such odds with those of traditional hunter gatherers who valued so many things that cannot be fenced this is the starting point to consider what exactly we mean by the use of and value in the arts in his 1882 lecture the english renaissance of art oscar wild said art cannot have any other claim but her own perfection here was an artist aesthetic completely confident about what he valued in art just as lean and he had be as confident about what she values in art and even though her evaluation is about as widely divergent from wild as one can imagine and her value system stretching back tens of thousands of years than wilds these days most of us are less confident about what we actually value in art we are confused in a maelstrom of backing away from defining excellence yet maintaining that that's what we buy or collect or fund we are left to hack a path through a dense forest of often conflicting evaluations the commodification of commercial entertainment or eventism has drifted into the sphere of arts their success now often measured in the vulgate of bums on seats or box office takings and beyond that just into how many bed nights they sell how many meals or parking fears that ubiquitous measure of return to the city in yet another del of this forest are the utilitarian measures of health diversity community engagement found everywhere in public policy these days all good and worthy things which many artists are happy to pursue through their skill in the arts are very far from wild and ours gratae artists such measures are also very far often from the reality of an artist's development such as the musician or visual artist who must spend hours every day alone for years perfecting his or her craft but for many politicians these utilitarian values have become the only justification of the arts despite what might be their own personal love of the arts these measures appear to be the last stand when facing a cabinet of colleagues who will claim that a nation's health defence and trade figures are infinitely more important than a nation's art and culture and some arts organisations sadly have fallen into the trap of focusing only on these utilitarian justifications they're eyes distracted from genuine vision and any attempt to articulate other means of valuing the arts this is not the way things should be i'm aware of artists and organisations whose skilled and admirably sensitive creative processes sometimes in non arts contexts result in inspirational excellence you have one such company in the Edinburgh international festival this year their their leadership their artistic leadership and management is here in the house today this is back to back theater though i would characterise their process and practice as pure art despite the fact that many of their performers come initially from non arts backgrounds but in any such context we neglected our peril the core values of awe wonder the stimulation of curiosity and of the creative muscle the alchemy of imagination the stimulation of emotion in many a dulled existence and the enlivening of the lazy synapses in our much underused brains these are the qualities of the kind of theater which back to back continually produces the fact that they work with actors of varying physical emotional and intellectual abilities is not just admirable but is exactly what makes the work unique and great these are some of the qualities we must value in the arts and value those artists and companies which constantly strive to uphold them whether this happens in a concert hall on an expensive ticket which buys us the experience of a gifted soloist to a so called passive audience which in my mind if it's getting its money worth is not passive at all or free on a suburban street with thousands of local participants whether in a sophisticated contemporary art gallery in a densely urbanised megalopolis or in a tiny town in a remote desert regions these are among the real uses and values of the arts let me repeat or wonder a high degree of craftsmanship stimulation of curiosity and the creative muscle the alchemy of imagination the stimulation of emotion and empowerment in many a dulled or constrained existence and the enlivening of the brain the context is significant but contexts are nuts and bolts issues not values an event will acquit its grant by saying we had huge numbers but does anyone ever question the quality or the depth of experience does anyone ask as simon anholt suggested yesterday does anyone ask as they do of countries what good did it do we must ensure a nuts and bolts framework which allows in a wholly equitable way the potential of an artist to develop and the arts to be experienced across the widest possible socioeconomic and geographic range that would seem to be self-evident in anything we call a democracy but it's the experience which is at the heart of it all and what that experience means to the artists and to the participants some of whom include the audience getting the framework right but not taking into account the nature and quality of the experience means we seriously undervalue the most important things which the arts can do for us as human beings and that does mean human beings on a global scale even those who understand this difference often avoid the next much more difficult step and I hope in the round table that follows we can start to go that extra more difficult step of trying to define what whatever that inherent quality of art really is arguments become befuddled by an insecurity bread of thinking that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that everyone can have a different opinion about art while this is certainly true it is also true that those with long and wide experience of an art form will be able to detect levels of skill of originality or the lack of it of authenticity and genuine innovation of careful or careless process and painstaking investigation into the experience of a work of art can reveal a great deal about depth and superficiality thankfully many societies and levels of government throughout the world now appear to acknowledge that the arts are good things to support a sign of civil society and inconvenient situations a source of national pride there is a generally positive evaluation I would go further and say that the arts are among the essential services by now so essential to our quality of life that they are indispensable imagine any day when there is no music this would be practically impossible even for those who do not see themselves as arts lovers music comes at them from unbidden sources all round them their tv notepad tablet local shop yet they will rarely acknowledge the composer or musicians who work to make that music and if our quality of life now depends on music design screen cultures all around us then artists ought to be valued in the same way as other workers in essential services are and supported accordingly clearly artists are not currently thought of in the same way as nurses and doctors garbage collectors and soldiers and yet most agree that a life without the products of artists would by now be so bleak as to be unbearable this is an anomaly that needs much further explanation than the time allows here and I hope again that we can follow that up in the round table even in the current perhaps less enlightened constructs of competitive arts funding those of us who are responsible for creating the structures through which arts artists are supported are obliged to be very clear about what we mean when we talk about the use of and value in the arts such phrases run off our tongue so easily yet we are frequently unable to articulate exactly what those values are yesterday we heard such phrases the inherent value the true message of art but I want to push that further what exactly is the inherent value and what is the message we here all understand the good that art can do on the smaller and larger scales but when we encounter resistance when others simply don't feel it when they disagree what are the tools and the language with which we can convince them what's more the addresses we heard yesterday were powerful and compelling but how and where do we construct the platforms for such things to be heard clearly by our people and our politicians I believe we are obliged to consider not one set of more easily measurable values but also the much harder to define attributes of the arts such as inspiration or excellence and process this balance was something Michael power referred to yesterday of course it is reasonable to expect artists and arts organisations to keep clean books and to acknowledge the same fiscal responsibility as any other business but whether it be Oscar Wilde selfish aestheticism or lean any adbys connection to country the supreme imagination and schools acquisition of certain individuals or ensembles or the undeniable thrill of seeing the young the old and the isolated grow in self confidence through some small participatory pleasure through the arts whether it be a small local project or one which aims as a soul for Europe does for the harmonisation of whole countries in conflict we must continue to evaluate the arts in a complex and comprehensive way rather than through a damagingly simplistic economic or utilitarian prism to reduce any analysis of what is valuable and useful in art just to any one or small selection of this complex set is to deny just how deeply the arts penetrate into 21st century life given that the way we support the arts now depends on these evaluations we cannot be too careful about their construct and their wise embrace I'm confident that the music I will hear during the Edinburgh international festival will delight me and leave me in awe this festival has set a global benchmark for musical excellence but I can honestly say that a few weeks ago on the banks of the Clyde I was also delighted in seeing older women not professional dancers move beautifully with younger people and singers and musicians as part of a project predicated on community engagement I was convinced by the authenticity of that project's process just as I am of Philly Pereveg's approach to performing the tears of st Peter which I will see tomorrow and as I experienced also a few weeks ago the national theatre of Scotland's highly political history of Glasgow I would wish these diverse joys for all audiences even as I acknowledge that tastes differ but I demand such expansiveness from policymakers I want us to create structures which support not just the well-made the well-known and much loved but also the ugly the unknown and the unloved only time will tell which of the arts of our time will survive and we need a framework that encourages all of that we must seriously value the well-bred success as well as the failed experiment the wildfires and undergrowth as much as the gorgeous mature canopy both are essential for a resilient arts environment a grand and diverse forest which will continue to grow despite the unexpected storm thank you Robin thank you so much now you may ask Nandi Mandela to present her thoughts on cultural identity a social positive change in a global environment Nandi has a wealth of experience working with diverse communities through her business interests and also is a directive for Quazulu Natale Philharmonic Orchestra thank you Presiding officer thank you very much please forgive my voice I have a touch of cold cultural identity a source for positive change in a global environment a nation that refuses to learn from other cultures is nothing but a nation of idiots and lunatics but to learn from other cultures does not mean we should abandon our own that is a quotation from former president of Tanzania Trulas Nyerere another quotation from our former president of South Africa Tabombege in his speech I am an African open quotes are all my being to the hills and valleys the mountains and glades the rivers the deserts the trees the flowers the seas and the ever-changing seasons that define our native land my mind and my knowledge of self are formed by victories that are dual in our african crown these two quotations form the basis of my presentation firstly it is our environment that define who we are secondly culture evolves and therefore it is can be an advocate for positive change culture is about self knowledge it is dynamic it is adaptable and it is always changing at a micro level one's language different forms of cultural expressions performed arts visual arts as the core of who we are all this informs who we become and our individual role in a global environment at a macro level nation would is about maintaining national pride in one's culture participating also as an equal partner in a melting pot of cultures of the world individuals who are grounded in their cultural beliefs who are selfless and believe in the goodness of others seldom falter an african proverb in the law it was about family can be translated as follows those that became that came before us open our eyes thus we must have a task and the responsibility we must thus we have a task and the responsibility to learn from those that came before us as we navigate our way in a fast changing global environment how do we asset ourselves without offending the next person how do we become independent and yet interdependent we need to learn to listen we need to learn to humble and to be humble and to make a concerted effort to view the world from the lens of another most of us listen but we do not hear the other person before during and after his presidency Nelson Mandela was at pains to explain that he did not rise to prominence on his own he consulted extensively and sometimes he had to concede his own point of view to achieve consensus for the general good he learned as a young man through observing elders reserving community issues open court from his long walk to freedom like all children I acquired knowledge many through observation my life and that of many of the people who are many through observation my life and that of many causes at the time was shaped by custom rituals and all of this was taboo this was the alpha and the omega of our existence my later notion of leadership was profoundly influenced by observing the regent and his court the regent would open the meeting and thank everyone for coming and would explain why he summoned them from that point on he would not utter a word he would be listening to everyone in the audience it did not matter what status they come from and he would keep quiet until towards the end of the of the meeting the meeting would continue until some form of consensus was reached if no agreement could be reached another meeting would be held he went he goes further and he says I've always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person had to say before venturing my own opinion oftentimes my own opinion will simply represent the consensus of what I had in the discussion close code it therefore does not matter what to tell your children and other people if you do not lead by example they will simply learn through your actions my grandfather is a classical example of a child who learned through observation and emulation further during the meeting with the regent everyone was allowed to give their opinion some were long-winded while some gave their point of view succinctly unfortunately during the regent meetings women were excluded this is something that my grandfather noted way back as he was a young man later he learned and adapted like culture always is adaptable and he included women in public discourse and um he appointed women in important position in his cabinet in support of the policies of his organization the ANC which was his political organization simply emulated his experiences as a young man which is why he found a home in that organization it is governed through extensive consultation and debate before any decisions are made this became an extension of his rural life his when he was growing and a simply a national progression to the well stage where he found himself the difference was that it had a wider geographical outreach and later it also included women's league which is an additional sector of society why is this relevant to us today is because we live in a fast changing global environment that is fast changing everything that we do on a daily basis how do we maintain that cultural autonomy while we create a homogeneous culture of identity do we hope do we have to be homogeneous or do we look at how we can create a mosaic culture of different personalities I would like to call to actually mention other well-renowned leaders at different periods of history Sir William Wallace was a leader of the Scottish resistance forces he liberated his country from domination by the English Winston Churchill was an orator a writer an artist and a united kingdoms prime minister during world war two he also won the noble prize in literature shagazulu was a great warrior known for his military strategies abraham lincon is known for his role for preserving the union and ending slavery he came from humble beginnings which informed his passion for a polishing of slavery duraz nierere who was the first president of Tanzania he was fondly remembered by his countrymen and women as mawlumi which means teacher in the recent past nesol mandela a fierce freedom fighter from humble beginnings was a political prisoner who became a president the common theme from this esteemed gentleman is resilience and the triumph of the human spirit these qualities can serve as a guide to all of us in a fast changing global environment we need to fight for what to believe in and include culture in all of the things that we do because that's who we are at a at a at a personal level we need to become selfless in our deeds the world is a very distressed environment good men and women with good intentions for the general good of humankind are what we need in today's world humanity is in dire need of peaceful peaceful coexistence the lessons from those who came before us will stand us in good stead as we forge our way towards a unified global environment a quotation from the former usa president abraham lincon puts this in the proper perspective with malice towards none with charity for all with fairness in the right let us all strive to finish the work that we are in to bind the nation's wound another quotation from my grandfather in his book conversation with myself i have worked that long walk to freedom i have tried not to falter i have made me steps along the way but i have discovered the secret that after climbing one great hill on one only finds that there are many more hills to climb i have taken a moment to rest to view a to steal a view of a glorious vista that surrounds me to look back in on the distance i have come but i can only rest for a moment for with freedom comes responsibility and i do not linger for my long work work to freedom has not ended lest we forget where we come from let's remember that our work is still far from over consistency in the public and the private arena is very important it starts with the family unit having been in prison for a long time he did his best to make sure that his family was taken care of with his own resources he did not stop there he went further in his public life and bequeath his salary to start a foundation to help the to help the less privileged his selflessness was an act of love which attended to those he knew and those he did not know also it is also said that uh julias nerere and and and and salary that was lower than his minister so it means we need to focus on being selfless and do what is good for the general good of our nations and individuals this profile this provides us with the most profound lessons and an amazing ability to reach out my questions are my questions are to this audience and beyond if we love nelson mandela what are the lessons we can take from his life during his time on f are we doing the same or are we just going to lament what a good person that he was what are we prepared to do and how far can we go to live by those principles what about the people that surround you every day at work and at home there is still more work to be done it is up to you and me to do our bit thank you very much thank you thank you very much we now have a special presentation from french vietnamese choreographer ia sola ia will offer a personal reflection on her work choreography of imagination body and memory me ddam messiw la literatur m'a sauvé la musique m'a prou l'ecritur i la compositions choreographic mon construit c'était il ya plus de 20 ans j'avais persu un tragé artistique mais il fallait que je France she's a cap travailler avec l'institutio world c'est-à-dire avec les scènes nationales et ses ministères car à l'époque l'institutio représente à mes yeux le lieux qui organise la guerre je suis francaise et vietnamienne et j'ai traversé la guerre du vietnam arrivé en France pendant les années la guerre du vietnam a obsédé et je suis allé dans la rue et je suis resté silencieuse et immobile pour dire non à la vie à tout ce qui était devant moi je pensé au corps mort sur les routes de la guerre au corps qui courait au visage qui pleurait pendant 7 heures 8 heures ou 10 heures debout immobile dans paris je voulais à mon tour mourir et ainsi pendant des années à travers le corps et son immobilité j'ai observé ce déchir ment du à la guerre et à l'exil puis la nostalgie de l'amour m'a emmené au mouvement a un retour au vietnam et je ne suis pas une scientifique mais quelqu'un qui a vécu la guerre du vietnam et qui se posait des questions sur ce fait entre les hommes à mes questions j'ai tenté quelques hypothèses et sur le parcours j'ai emprunté plusieurs chemin finalement cela m'a conduit à un travail artistique et j'ai rencontré des co-producteurs qui m'ont soutenu ce qui m'a permis de réaliser un parcours en prengant le temps probleme as usual just going to try and get it fixed here would you like to resume your seat i cannot guarantee how long it will be taken before we've managed to get it fixed excuse me joddus and thank you most of the time technology every now and again something happens so that's why we're performing art we have to work so much before to make the things you know and not only about technologies but about the yeah the the things that we cannot touch and this is a big work and that costs a lot and um i love that so she she arrived hello yeah this work on i remade them i am assured we are working again so is it true do you can you hear me no yes la literatur m'a sauvé la music m'a appri l'écritur et la composition chorégraphique m'ont construït c'était il y plus de 20 ans j'avais perçu un tragé artistique mais il fallait que je franchisse à cap travailler avec l'institution c'est-à-dire avec des scènes nationales et ses ministères car à l'époque l'institution représenté à mes yeux l'organisation qui organise la guerre l'institution qui organise la guerre je suis francaise et vietnamienne et j'ai traversé la guerre du vietnam arrivé en france pendant les années la guerre du vietnam m'a obsédé et je suis allé dans la rue et je suis resté silencieuse et immobile pour dire non à la vie à tout ce qui était devant moi et je pensais au corps mort sur les routes de la guerre au corps qui courait, au visage qui pleurait pendant 7h, 8h ou 10h debu immobile dans paris je voulais à mon tour mourir et ainsi pendant des années à traverser, à travers le corps et son immobilité j'ai observé le déchirmant ddu à la guerre et à l'exil, puis la nostalgie de l'amour m'a emmené au mouvement à mon retour au vietnam. Je ne suis pas une scientifique mais quelqu'un qui a vécu la guerre et qui se posait des questions sur ce fait entre les âmes a me'n caision j'ai tenté'n quelques hypothès et sur le parcours j'ai emprunté plusieurs chemins, finalement cela m'a conduit un drafau ariestic et j'ai rencontré'n des coproducteurs qui m'ont soutenu et qui m'a permis de réaliser un parcours en prengant le temps et j'ai creé'n sécheresse et pluie, cette pièce qui m'a faite et assolat, c'était mon premier grand travail cynique avec des matériaux culturels et historiques que j'avais voulu auprès des êtres du pays de mon enfemence ces citoyen vietnamien qui avait traversé la guerre, un travail partant d'un point de vue loin de l'Europe je veux juste faire clair que si je voulais un travail d'un point de vue loin de l'Europe ce n'est pas que je condamne ou que je refuse l'Europe ou l'Amérique mais je voulais un point de vue des vietnamien et connaître cette culture qui était la mienne que la guerre ne m'a pas permis de connaître A l'époque on disait que j'avais un progett ambitiu pour moi, c'était ma survie, ma vengeance j'avais 20 minutes pour vous raconter ce travail que j'ai fait sur la question de la mémoire de la guerre je compte sur votre compréhension car ce cheminement que j'ai essayé d'écrir contient une masse de fragilité la vengeance, je le répétais sans cesse qu'il me fallait me venger de la douleur traversée avec cette lutte effroyable des pertes, des peines et ce sacrifice Finalement, après la guerre, pour sombrer dans la misère couper du monde et exclue de toute normalité cette guerre a marqué à jamais ma famille et les familles du pays elle nous a séparé diviser alors que nous étions ensemble c'est la guerre, me disait-on j'ai alors demandé pourquoi l'homme tu l'homme on me répondait, l'homme tu l'homme, parce que c'est dans la nature de l'homme je voulais comprendre que nous étions et pourquoi il nous a fallu subir une telle guerre cavion nous fait pour qu'un tel sort s'acharme ainsi sur nous vivre comme ça sous des bombardements puis je suis revenu au Vietnam et je me suis allongé sur le sol longtemps comme ça pour l'embrasser à la recherche de ses corps, ses visages, ses êtres dispersés je ne sais où en choisi son de parcourir, le territoire paysan du nord, au centre, puis au sud je l'ai recherché pendant presque 5 ans et j'ai rencontré beaucoup de femmes et recueillis leurs histoires et j'ai travaillé avec quelques un d'entre elles comme Madame Nam du nord du Vietnam qui a aujourd'hui 93 ans à l'époque de la France et à la suite d'une bataille elle a dû aller chercher le corps de son mari puis plus tard à la période américaine successivement elle a perdu son fils, sa fille cette dame m'a dit, ce travail sur la mémoire que j'ai faite avec vous m'a aidé à me retrouver ou encore Madame Bic et son mari pryd de la Région de Quantay, après la guerre avec l'Amérique on voulu avoir des enfants avec une première naissance puis une deuxième puis ils ont tenté une troisième, une dernière fois mais les trois enfants sont né contaminés par la j'en orange j'ai écouté et entendu la pré guerre des histoires d'une immense tristesse mais aussi de courage et de dignité ou de poesie telle com Madame Théon qui en l'espace de quelques mois avait perdu son père, sa mère et son frère alors qu'elle avait 10 ans plus tard devenu une jeune femme elle a été au front chanté pour consoler les blessés et peut-être pour se consoler elle-même mais recherches ont été dirigées sur la vie quotidienne des villageois leurs coutumes, leurs travaux et leurs vies puis je me suis orienté ensuite vers le domaine de la musique, la danse, le chant et les rites religieux c'était en 1989, il était encore difficile de circuler au Vietnam en cette période de grande pauvreté et de mesfiance j'ai malgré tout réussi à mener ces recherches qui m'ont permis de découvrir des trajectoires culturels et des systèmes je me demandais alors mes ce vanger de qui je n'avais que des noms de pays plus tard un sentiment d'empathie a remplacer celui de la vengeance et ces recherches m'ont conduit à l'éleboration de trois processus de réflexion la mémoire de la guerre, la mémoire collective et individuelle la tradition, la modernité auprae de musiciens et de chanteurs traditionnels et de personnes qui avaient traversé la guerre j'ai parcouru des années en travaillant sur ces données et je me suis rendu compte que ce que j'avais imaginé être la mémoire de la guerre était plutôt le souvenir de la guerre celui des parents, des grandparents sella concerné la transmission d'un souvenir car la mémoire est tellement plus complex tellement plus sofisticé cette observation m'a guidé vers une autre route avec simplement la mémoire comment la mémoire se batit comment la comprendre qui est elle est-ce que tu es peut être considéré comme dans la nature de l'homme l'observation mémoire souvenir m'a montré une route ancienne autant des étoiles du tonner, des églaire avec nous face à l'univers et à nous-même sans connaissances car la compréhension existait la mémoire se fabrique avec des éléments de notre vie c'est sur le terme d'un long processus qu'elle se cristallise ainsi nous qui sommes bâtis de mémoire commence articulent-elle en nous j'ai emprété ce chemin devant l'obscur autant de la grande peur lorsqu'il nous a fallu asymer cette chose que nous devons encore asymer nous nourrir de ce fait devant l'infini de l'univers il fallait manger il fallait se confronter au changement de l'environnement il fallait avec des périodes chaudes avec cette peur devant nous devant l'univers et toujours avec la nourriture à trouver l'homme s'était mis en état de concurrence face aux autres peuplades et pour se protéger il s'est transformé en prédateur en conquérant avec l'acte de tuer par nécessité pour sa propre survie mais pas par nature cette peur millenaire et cet effort permanente ces choses qui ont non cessé de se répéter pour des milliers d'année ça a marqué l'homme et cette marque elle a contribué a bâtir la mémoire de cette substance la mémoire est silencieuse de son et d'image mais la mémoire ne provient pas de l'institut elle ne peut avoir affaire avec la nature et j'ai poursuivi un travail sur la conscience en abordant cette mémoire du monde à travers le mouvement l'espace, le chant et la musique comme si le mouvement était habité par des souffles anciens le spas est composé d'un fflux on ne voit pas mais c'est la que le chant et la musique était des sons contenant des symboles du temps de notre survie ces invisibles donés qui ferais parti de la mémoire du monde lorsque les rituels se formaient de mouvements de temps de chants et de musiques exprimant ces images et ces symboles qui mimaient la puissance la violence, la guerre rentré à l'intérieur de corps des mots à l'intérieur de notre corps ces éléments à travers notre inconscience collective chargé de l'évolution de notre espèce du temps de notre survie je voulais tenir compte de cette hypothèse sur la mémoire ancienne afin de reconsiderer ce qu'on mew ddiseil l'homme tu l'homme parce que c'est dans la nature de l'homme je comprend par la nature de l'homme ce quitte en l'homme ce don il ne peut se défaire auquel il doit obéir comme se nourir ainsi pouvons nous dire l'homme tu l'homme comme il mange ou comme il dort l'homme a besoin de salimenter il se nourri pour survivre pour vivre si l'homme arrête de tuer il n'en mwrepa pourtant l'homme men de guerre de bataill qui lui son fatal tuer ne don pas une nature en l'homme l'institut de l'homme ne peut solliciter ce don il n'a pas besoin mais pour que l'homme tuer l'homme il n'en fawr et cette mémoire marquée de la peur ancienne au fond du corps et de manière imperceptible ne dirigerait tel pas nos sentiments nos mouvements ce travail m'a permis de considérer d'une peur ancienne se logerait dans notre mémoire et qui nous dirigerait qui occulterait ces autres mémoires que je nomme la mémoire de la clarté animée celle du paysage du son de la mer du cotidien vivant et du son des mots marquées par la clarté animée et que la peur écarte l'enchantement pour retenir le conquérant le prédateur il m'arrive cette conclusion que j'ai désir vous présenter en poursuivant ces hypothès la mémoire de l'homme dirait qu'elle est marquée par l'obscur qu'elle serait hantée par la peur et à cela on reconnait une forme d'aliénation d'enfermement et d'enbaechement qui nous conduit au prédateur au conquérant mais a pousser les lignes on peut considérer que cette démarche procederai d'une réflexion et d'une prise de conscience sur la mémoire de l'obscur et celle de la mémoire de la clarté animée et que cette attitude impliquerait une libération une liberté qui ouvrirai de nouveaux horizons ces hypothès propose une utopie soit une absence de lieux concrets et réels qui permet un processus intérieur intime une articulation entre mémoire individuelle et mémoire collective qui fait de la conscience le socle de la liberté à travers le mouvement et l'espace à travers le chant et la musique la mémoire m'a enseigné l'invisible et l'invisible propose d'imaginer je ne suis pas une scientifique mais quelqu'un qui a vu la guerre qui a formulé une question pourquoi l'homme tu l'homme et j'ai tenté la rigueur et l'objectivité mais la part subjectif par entraîner vers des mystères auprès de ces anonyms de la guerre et ces périodes de grande pau wrthée en ces périodes de grande pau wrthée j'ai découvert l'art de la scène et sa poici et je ne peux oublier les coproducteurs et les spectateurs car sans eux mon parcours n'aur est pas pu se réaliser le spectateur dans l'ombre du théâtre qui se retrouve ému parce qu'il a perçu quelque chose pour lui et ça c'est une chose exceptionnelle pour moi si importante l'avenue du spectateur au théâtre dans l'extrême abondance du monde je pense de plus en plus à cet individu lorsque je travaille cet observateur qui vient percevoir une humanité utopique pour rêver et pour penser et combien cela m'encourage m'incite de même que ce coproducteur qui reste dans l'ombre qui ne se met pas en avant et qui travaille avec l'artiste ce soutien est primordial c'est coproducteur qui soutienne des travaux pointus qui propose une réflexion l'homme tu l'homme parce que c'est dans la nature de l'homme cette phrase que j'entends élas encore c'est elle qui me fait travailler cette idée cachée dans notre inconscience combien faut-elle notre existence humaine combien un artiste et son coproducteur c'est essentiel pour un pays l'un d'entre eux qui est Jonathan Mills se trouve par nous aujourd'hui ce coproducteur qui m'a proposé de recréer sesheresse et plu et cela m'a permis d'aller plus loin encore dans ma réflexion concernant la mémoire et d'avoir pu rencontrer mes nouveaux interprètes ces femmes qui avaient été au front chanté et qui consoled les blessés lorsqu'elles étaient jeunes enfin pwys je saisir ce jour pour rendre hommage à ses êtres en tant que spectateur et coproducteur personne responsable de la culture et des artistes considère que vivre tous ensemble fait partie du possible et qu'il est le plus beau project avec tout mon coeur, permettez-moi de remercier Jonathan Mills pour m'a voir offer cette opportunité de recréer sesheresse et plu mes der messieurs ce travail de la scène m'a dit que nous avons tendance à nous oublier et que c'est l'art et la culture qui nous rappelle pour noter que nous avons ensemble un mémoire de la clarté animé à vivre je vous remercie merci merci merci merci merci merci merci merci merci ddim yn ddeliaddo gresgol 不是 And The official photograph is about to happen now. After the official photograph, there will be a small briefing from one of the cultural summit team to advise you about the next steps within the policy discussions and your delegates and programme staff will come back in. In the meantime, I hand over to Andrew Cowan. Andrew is an official photographer for the Scottish Parliament. If I can give you advice, it is to do as Andrew tells you the first time. If you do exactly as Andrew tells you, we will get the photograph over and done with very quickly. Thank you very much indeed for this session.