Well, welcome everyone to the Ford School of Public Policy, the International Policy Center. And here at the Ford School is very pleased to host this event together with the Center for Middle East North African Studies and the International Institute. And I'm going to very briefly introduce the director of the Center for Middle East and North African Studies, who will be setting the stage for the speech, the talk we're going to be listening to. So it's my pleasure to introduce right now, Gottfried Hagen, who is a very distinguished scholar of Ottoman studies, Ottoman Empire studies, and he is also a very accomplished linguist. And as I said, he has been directing the Center for Middle East and North African Studies here at University of Michigan for several years now. And Gottfried, if you would like to introduce our speaker, that would be great. Thank you very much. It is a great honor for me to welcome everybody and to welcome our guests on behalf of the Islamic Studies program at the University of Michigan, which is administratively housed by the Center for Middle East and North African Studies, but is actually a separate unit. So let me quickly say a few words about this relatively recent program. At U of M, the study of the Middle East begins already in the 19th century, but it was actually only after World War II, when we had a nearest and studies department that united historians, political, scientists, linguists, geographers, a truly interdisciplinary unit. But then by the end of the 1960s, U of M's Middle East specialists were actually scattered over a number of different disciplinary departments and professional schools, such as what is now the Ford School. So in the early 60s, seated by the Ford Foundation, and then continued by the Department of Education's Title VI program, U of M received an area studies center as a national resource center, as a hub between all these different units. And as a result, U of M now prides itself of a total of about 67 Middle East faculty members, covering everything from ancient Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt, the Roman era, into the contemporary period. It was on the basis of these strengths that U of M was invited in the early 2000s to submit a proposal for a center for global and regional Islamic studies. It was not successful with the initially intended sponsor, but the proposal was strong enough and was shepherded by a group led by Mark Tesler to receive funding from the International Institute and from the provost to create an interdepartmental program dedicated to the study in a disciplinary study of Islamic thought and practice in regional and global social contexts. And it is this combination of the regional and the global, which makes the distinction of this program. Today the Islamic Studies program covers every region on the globe with faculty experts working on Africa, Middle East, Europe, South, Southeast and Central Asia, and also a strong representation of Islam in the United States. The Islamic Studies program seeks to make a crucial contribution to the undergraduate and graduate curriculum at U of M, has underwritten a number of exciting research proposals and teaching initiatives, has funded two important and intriguing conferences, one of Islamophobia and Islamophilia, and another one on dreams and visions and both of them will, the proceedings of both of them will appear in print soon. So it is our plan to make the study of Islam all over the globe the focus of a vibrant community of teaching and research at U of M. And so we're proud and honored today to welcome a representative of a truly global Islamic institution, the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, which is a subsidiary of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, as one of the most important international associations of Islamic countries. So it's my honor to introduce to you the Director General of the Organization with the acronym ISESCO, Dr. Abdulaziz Ofman Atwayji. Dr. Atwayji was born and raised in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, where he obtained his first degree. Before he went actually on to study in the U.S., and we were just talking about how many of his country are pursuing the same path, he obtained an end doctorate in curriculum from the University of Oregon, then returned to his home country to start an academic career at King's Howard University. And after a few years joined the recently founded Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization as its Deputy Director General for Culture. And in 1991 he was elected its Director General and he has been just re-elected last year for another double term of three years each. Dr. Atwayji is also the Secretary General of the Federation of the Universities of the Islamic World, which is one of the ISESCO subsidiaries. He has published widely a total of seven books and a large number of articles on Islam, on globalization, on coexistence and dialogue, and he is a member of boards of numerous regional and global educational institutions. And today he will speak to us about the organization he has directed for such a long time, the role of Islamic international organizations in the realm of international politics. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Atwayji. Thank you, doctor. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, it's a great honor for me to stand in front of you in this auspicious university to speak to you about one of the most compelling and intriguing issues in our world today. When we speak about Islam and Muslims, the first thing that comes to the mind of the listener in the West is Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. And I know that this is the case because of the tragic and criminal acts that were carried here in this country in 911 in a very inhuman and acceptable criminal act which all Muslims denounced and rejected. But there are many good things in the Islamic world and the Muslim people all over the world are decent individuals, peace-loving like any other people in the globe. Many of them are well-educated and in their countries there are development, there are a lot of projects in different fields, either economical, social, educational, cultural and in the arts fields and in many walks of their lives. Unfortunately, little of that comes to the West, especially to the United States. Although there is a big Muslim community in the United States but the media doesn't show much of the activity of Muslims within the United States or outside the United States. Therefore, today I have the pleasure and the honor to speak to you about the role of the Islamic international organizations and especially the organization which I work in as Director General, that's ASESCO. I would like to, first of all, thank Professor Goetfeld Hagman for inviting me, for preparing for this lecture and for the authorities in this beautiful university and for all of you for coming and listening to what I will say. And I will certainly be delighted when I hear some of the questions so we can clarify many issues that need to be clarified. As you may know that there is a confusion now in the minds of many people about the word Islam and Islamic and Islamist. Many people don't understand the connotation and the meanings of these words but those who have studied Islam and working in the field of research in the Islamic literature and Islamic history and Islamic civilization. Islamic is usually an adjective that is given to a country or an action or a work that represents the religion of Islam and the civilization of Islam. And this is a term used by academics, by scholars, by researchers and by Muslims themselves. But Islamist is misused because in the origin Islamist means a person who is specializing in Islamic studies like Orientalist studying the sciences and the literature and the history of the Oriental countries. But now Islamist has become an acronym of violence, of extremism, of close-mindedness. Like the same word when it is translated into Arabic when they speak about fundamentalist and they say Al-Usul Yun. The word Usuli in Arabic is a noble adjective, a noble name given to a person who studies the Usul, the origins of Sharia, the origins of Fiqh. But now a fundamentalist Usuli means a person who is an integrist, extremist in his positions and thought. And the whole meaning has been shifted away from the reality of the word itself. Now we have to correct this. We cannot keep up with the confusion and the misusage of terms. And this needs a lot of work by academics, by educationists and researchers, especially from the Islamic world. And those in the West who are working in the institutes and the centers for Islamic studies and Islamic culture and Islamic civilization. We cannot forget and avoid saying that there are movements in the Islamic world which raise the banner of violence like Al-Qaeda. But we cannot blame Islam for this kind of thinking or this kind of behavior because this is a bad interpretation, a wrong understanding of certain texts in Islam. And after all Al-Qaeda as a criminal group of people was not the product of Islam or an Islamic country. It was a group that grew in a very complicated, intermingled situation in Afghanistan when the West was fighting the Soviet Union. And these people were used as jihadists with the emirs of jihad from Afghanistan. And they found the platform and the environment where they developed their capacities and started manipulating many young people. And then they turned on their countries of origin and the West as well. Any sane Muslim with a simple understanding of the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet will know that what they do is against Islam because killing innocent people is not Islamic. Attacking innocent people is not Islamic. Destroying buildings and offices and civilian properties is an Islamic. Propagating lies and falsification and disseminating them is not Islamic because these are all crimes in Islam punishable. Anybody who commits such acts is punished according to the Islamic laws. And we have to see that these people cannot and should not continue to hijack Islam and the banner of Islam to deceive many people in the world.  The organizations now in the Islamic countries, in the Islamic world and in the forefront is playing a great role in re-educating and bringing up the realities of Islam. The true images of Islam, the true teachings of Islam, the true face of Islam. And this is of course a religious and a moral duty that we have to do. Because if we leave the field for these people then everybody will take for granted what they say as Islam. And that will create a real clash of civilizations, a real clash of cultures, a real clash of nations. And that's very catastrophic for the security and well-being of the human race and for the security and well-being of all the countries. The division or the difference between Islamic countries and Islamic world. The Islamic world is just an idea. It doesn't exist as far as I am concerned. We say the Islamic world but which world? Where is it? Is it the OIC member states? Or is it the Arab countries and some African Asian countries around them? Or is it the whole globe because there are Muslims everywhere? Muslims in America, Muslims in Latin America, Muslims in Europe, Muslims in Africa and Southeast Asia. And there are millions of Muslims in Russia and China. So the world itself has to be redefined and we have to have parameters for it to clarify what it means. Islamic countries, do we really have Islamic countries? I mean, many of the existing countries now do not call themselves Islamic states or Islamic countries. For example, Turkey, which is one of the biggest countries in the world, says it is a circular country. It doesn't call itself an Islamic state. Senegal, for example, in the west of Africa doesn't call itself an Islamic state because they adopt circular procedures and systems. I think only one or two states in the Islamic world or so-called Islamic world may claim that they are Islamic states. But the majority of the states do not really accept to call themselves Islamic states because some of them also, have non-Muslims living in them like, you know, Egypt. There are many, many Christian cops like Lebanon. There are Christians of different denominations and there are Shiites and Sunnis and there are Druze. Syria, where you have Christians and you have Jews as well. Iraq in the past and now. And so on and so forth. Malaysia, which is one of the biggest countries in Asia, they do not call themselves an Indonesia. They call themselves Islamic states. So these definitions have to be set and clarified. Islamic organizations and Islamic movements. There is also a confusion now. When someone here, Islamic organization, the first thing that comes to his mind is an organization or a movement that is calling for jihad. And they don't know that, you know, there are a big difference between the movement that calls for violence or for jihad or for whatever they may prefer to call it. And the Islamic organizations that are working in the fields of development in the fields of economics, culture, education, science and technology, research and so on and so forth. So we have also to clarify this to the audiences everywhere that when you hear a word like this or a name like that, you have to be careful not to react negatively to it and to behave accordingly.  I came to here with a visa from the American Embassy in Rabat and it was given to me by the American ambassador in his home. And I traveled from Rabat to Paris safely and from Paris to Detroit safely and when I entered the airport of Detroit and came in front of the immigration officer, she was a lady. She started asking me new questions. I said, I think you have all these questions answered in the forms that I filled in Morocco. And my visa is new and authentic. There is no falsification here. And my passport is diplomatic and I'm the guest of the University of Michigan and afterwards I'll be in Washington DC for another activity in Georgetown University and with the State Department and the Department of Education. I have a list of the highly ranking officials who will meet me on the 18th and 19th of this month.  I'm here to bring, to build bridges and to create trust and confidence and clarify misconceptions. Now this is another bridge being built in front of me and I thought it was the end but then she asked me to go to another office.   She said, why you are coming to Michigan? I said I'm coming here as a guest of the University of Michigan and a guest also of the State Department. And I'm coming to deliver some speeches and this is the first of my series. I said what are you going to talk about? I'm saying this story to show you how people are not aware of what they hear and what they read. I said I'm going to talk about the Islamic international organizations and their role in the realm of politics. She said what company do you work in? I said I'm not working in any company. I am the director general of SSCO. This is the Islamic education center and cultural organization. And my, you know, full description is in my passport which you have it and also in the papers that I have filled in Rabat.  I think you have all the information. She said how much money do you have? I said I have this amount. She said why you bring this big amount of money? Why don't you use your credit cards? I said I don't like to be debted to anybody. I like to spend cash. And many silly questions and I was very cool, very cool, you know, like if I was taken a tranquilizer. And then she said okay, where is the letter of invitation from the University of Michigan? Where is the list of the personalities whom you will meet in Washington DC? I ran after Dr. Said to give me these documents because he had them in his case. Then she took photographs for them, copies. And then she said to me go there to that lady there. She's another officer. And I went to that lady and said what is going on? I have to go now. People are waiting for us. She said no, you have some money. We want to verify that what you said is right. Show us your money and don't show it now. Come with me. And she took me to her room and there is another gentleman joined us. And they sat there and she said give us the money, I give them my money. And they started counting them. They finished it. I think it was some dollar, some hundred, three or four hundred dollars more than what I said. You know that you have declared something that's not correct? I said what is that incorrect declaration? I said I cannot count my money every time. This is not important. You want to take them, take them. So this is the misconception about Islamic organizations. I found it in the airport in Detroit. And I thought I want to face such a funny situation but I did face it. So I was very, very cool and I said okay, if you want to take these extra money, it's yours. Or if you want to take the whole money, take it, I don't care. Let me go because I have people waiting for me. And then she said no, no, we have to search your bag. Oh my God. So I gave her my bag and she started searching them. She said do you have anything in your pockets? I tried to find. I said how can I find anything that is not there? Everything I have I gave to you. And they didn't let me go until I was completely fed up. And then I said okay, you may go now. I said thank you very much. This is a wonderful reception. So I went and I found my colleagues waiting for me. And the funniest thing is not this. This is fine. I can't cope with it. I looked at their passports. We received the same visa the same day from the same embassy. And we were at the ambassador's house, the three of us. And I said what did they do with your passports? So I took their passports. They gave me until the 25th of this month, just to stay in the United States. After the 25th I would be arrested. So I looked at Dr. Said's passport and he was given until 13th of April. And I looked at Dr. Mustafa for the first time in America. And he was given until June. I said the boss is giving until the 25th of March. And the assistants are giving you no longer periods. They are lucky. But this is the reality. We have to work hard to change this mentality, this way of behaving. Because yes, the security measures have to be taken everywhere because we are concerned about the safety of people. We are concerned about the well-being of any state in the world. We are respectable of laws and on order. But we have to be very selective in the cases because my appearance and the documents I had doesn't indicate in any way that I am a suspect or that I might do something wrong in this country. So this is the difference between Islamic organizations and Islamic movements. Which we have to tell the security people in all airports, not only in America. And intergovernmental and non-governmental. The intergovernmental is a group of states creating an organization or an institution for joint work like SSQ. Because we have 57 member states in the OIC system who created these institutions and organizations. So this is intergovernmental. And it has the nature of an international organization that has immunities and privileges and political immunities and privileges also. And the non-governmental organization, all of you know them. These are civil institutions that are formed or created by a certain law within each state or each country. So even this is confusing to many people. And I think, I hope I'm not fumbling this. Okay.  These institutions, the intergovernmental institutions have political fields and others have developmental fields like the Islamic Development Bank, the ISERSCO and some other institutions and organizations in the Islamic world. Some of the institutions, even those who are created in the form of non-governmental institutions, some of them are religiously oriented like Jam'iyat al-Dawah in Libya, which has great activities in Africa and Asia and in some other places in teaching Arabic and giving scholarships and sending teachers and things like that. And like the Rabidah of the Islamic League in Mecca and the Kuwaiti International Charitable Organization and Sheikh Zayed Charitable Organization in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates and many other organizations and institutions and some of them are humanitarian and charitable, not only religious. Some concentrate on forming imams, teachers of Islamic studies, building mosques, helping communities in the religious context and some are doing more than that. They build hospitals, they dig wells and give assistance and sometimes build institutions for the elderly and for the orphans. Some of them are funded by the government and some are funded by the individuals and the companies and the rich people. But after 9-11, there was a misconception in the West and in the United States in particular about this organization, this big spectrum of institutions, organizations whether governmental or non-governmental and they started preventing aid and charity from going and there were some restrictions on money transfer even through banks and many people suffered in Africa and in Asia. People who used to receive funds for the orphans, funds for the elderly, some who used to receive donations for the students to continue their studies or to help the farmers in their farms, the money didn't reach them. It stopped because of security measures and even the people who used to go to teach found some difficulties and this is understood to a certain extent because the world at that moment was blown up. It was like an atomic bomb. So we have to come now and re-evaluate the whole thing. The organization can be functioning and what should be stopped and we cannot put obstacles in front of all or diminish the role of all and this needs a lot of research and a lot of wise selection. ESESCO as a specialized institution of the OIC as you may know was created in 1982 and the framework of ESESCO is the OIC. OIC started in 1969 after the burning of the Masjid al-Aqsa in Jerusalem. The Muslim countries called for summit in Rabat in Morocco and the two leaders who were in the forefront for the joining of this conference was the late King Faisal of Saudi Arabia and the late King Hassan II of Morocco and the conference was held in Rabat and it was the place where the idea developed and in 1972 the foreign ministers met in Jeddah and a decision was taken to create the organization of the Islamic conference that would be based in Jeddah temporarily and the headquarter would be in Jerusalem and since then it started working and ESESCO was created in 1982 because the Muslim countries of the OIC member states found it important to create an educational, scientific and cultural organization like UNESCO to serve the Muslim countries in developing these fields of competence and since then ESESCO was created and it started working with the member states to develop the fields of education, science and culture and designed and made many strategies in these fields like the cultural strategy and the educational strategy and this is our headquarter in Rabat I will go back to some points that I missed now but I will go to them this is some information about the ESESCO objectives and the General Conference, the Executive Council and the General Secretary of UNESCO and this is the member states this is the ministerial conferences I will come to it but the strategy, we developed these strategies because we believe in ESESCO that the work has to be based on strategies on well thought plans made or designed on factual information factual data about the Islamic countries what they need in the field of ESESCO's competence that education, science and culture and communication and we developed these strategies strategy for the promotion of education and cultural strategy for science, technology and innovation strategy for development of biotechnology in the Islamic world strategy for water resources management and strategy for bringing muslim maddahib closer together strategy for Islamic cultural action outside the Islamic world strategy for benefiting from muslim competencies outside the Islamic world strategy for developing university education and strategy of the careful solidarity to serve muslim developmental and civilizational causes and from these strategies we design and make our plans of action the three years plan of actions that are implemented in our member states and outside the member states where muslims exist the objectives of ESESCO are many but I will just mention three of them to strengthen, promote and consolidate cooperation among the member states and consolidate it in the fields of education, science, culture and communication as well as to develop and upgrade these fields within the framework of the civilizational reference of the Islamic world and in the light of the human Islamic values and ideals to consolidate understanding among peoples inside and outside the member states and contribute to the achievement of world peace and security through various means particularly through education, science, culture and communication to publicize the correct image of Islam and Islamic culture with more dialogue among civilizational cultures and religions and work towards spreading the values of justice and peace along with the principles of freedom and human rights in accordance with the Islamic civilization perspectives these are lofty and noble objectives and because ESESCO is sincere in its work it gained the support and the partnership of many international organizations now we have more than 175 protocols and cooperation agreements signed with various international and regional organizations all over the world the UN system, the Francophonic organization, the Council of Europe and many other institutions and we work closely with them in implementing hundreds of activities in our fields of competence which benefit many peoples either in Africa, Asia or in the Arab countries and also where Muslims exist whether in Europe, North America, Latin America and Southeast Asia and Africa also ESESCO in its mission as a developmental and civilizational institution started convening ministerial conferences in fields like education, science and culture for example we started working also in higher education and scientific research in the year 2000 we organized the first Islamic conference for the ministers of higher education and scientific research in Riyadh and then we held the second one in Tripoli in Libya and the third in Kuwait and the third in Azerbaijan and the fifth will be organized in Kuala Lumpur in October this year also we created the conference of the ministers of culture we held five sessions and the conference of environment ministers we held three sessions and the conference of ministers of childhood and we held three sessions and the next session will be next year in Libya and the ministers of environment will have also their fourth session next October in Tunisia so we entered into new developmental areas environment is very important for development research is very important childhood the other future and also we didn't forget the role of women we have not started a conference for ministers who are in charge of women's activities women affairs in our countries because there is a competition between us and the OIC itself the OIC called for a meeting for the first ladies of the OIC member states and it was organized in Cairo I think last year and I think they are now preparing to create a kind of an organization for women and women affairs in the OIC system but I don't think it will be created because Iran want to host it Saudi Arabia opposes this and Egypt wants to host it and now we are in a struggle of elephants each one is pushing and pulling the yes ma'am in the it's going to change Saudi Arabia is a different case because of the constraints the conservative society and the role of the religious authority but it is going to change because the king of Saudi Arabia now is taking very strong and courageous strides in the path of modernization and bringing women to resume assume important role in the society and as you may know now we have a vice minister for education she is a lady that is for the first time in our country now there are women working in different departments in the government they used to be confined only to education, teaching girls but now they are admitted to various ministries departments and governmental institutions and the most promising and comforting thing is that now all the delegations of the Saudi official delegations that go outside the country to attend conferences and events is composed of men and women and I was in Tunisia last October we held a big conference for youth and the Saudi delegation came and I was really very happy to see that there were three girls with them young girls from the university and they were dressed nicely I mean they didn't cover anything I mean just the modest clothing and they participated they talked, they engaged in conversation and giving their points of view and two days ago I was watching the Saudi TV and there was an interview with the new minister of cultural information and he was my friend because he was ambassador in Rabat for seven years and he said that there are now new measures to allow the Saudi young women to be even editor-in-chief in the newspapers which was only men so there are many steps that are being taken and I think the driving issue will come very soon because there is nothing in the text of Islam that prevents women from driving at the time of the Prophet they used to drive camels and it's an instrument of transportation it's a vehicle whether it is a camel or a car or maybe a plane and the funniest thing is that there are some Saudi pilots and the Prince Waleed bint Alal in his two private jets he has lady pilots so this is good, things are moving it has, it has look I live in Morocco I talked about Saudi Arabia and it is a different case but it is opening now very very very quickly I talk about Morocco where I have been living now for more than 19 years Morocco you know there are many high in the cabinet ministers I know three or four ministers the minister of public affairs, public work and the minister of health and the state minister for foreign affairs there are judges women you know from different you know and yes and the ladies of Morocco are everywhere in the government in the public sector they also in the parliament they are representatives in the parliament so things in Tunisia the same thing is also happening there in Jordan, Syria, Egypt of course Yemen which is a very you know weak and under developed country but there are ministers and parliament members and judges from Yemen so things are improving and moving you know ahead in great and big strides so we are not worried about that no Isisko is helping Isisko is just one factor but you know there is a big movement in the whole ISE member states towards modernization towards you know freedoms towards allowing women to participate in the affairs of the society in all levels and this is in conformity with the teachings of Islam Islam doesn't oppose this at all and there is no restrictions in the text that say women cannot be even ahead of a state I don't care about what the ulama says you know because this is human interpretation I care about what the text itself says the Quran itself praised the queen of Yemen Balqis in the Quran when she met the king Solomon so this is a sign of the importance of a successful queen a successful lady and it is a pattern of conduct and I think if we have a capable and if this happened you know in Pakistan there was a prime minister in Bangladesh there was a prime minister and we want and maybe in America we will have a lady president very soon so these efforts by Isisko also influenced the politics the development of the member states not only in education science and culture but also in other areas because it is a developmental and civilization and institution that gives guidance, expertise and also involve itself in the movement of the societies in our part of the world the subsidiary organs of Isisko as we have heard in the introduction the Federation of the Universities of the Islamic World FUIW and it has now more than 240 universities and it is a body for coordinating coordination and exchange of expertise between the universities and also exchange of visits, professors, students also the, how do you say it, the conformity of the degrees between a university and another because certain universities do not accept the degrees that are offered by a university in one country or another so the Federation is trying now to find parameters and governing guides and principles that will allow all the universities to accept the graduates that can find a place to continue and pursue their studies or research or work or whatever and this is something that will be studied and discussed next October in the meeting of the, next May in the meeting of the General Conference of the Federation in Baku and I said to the senior vice provost professor Mons today that we would be very happy to see somebody from Michigan University attending this conference because it is an opportunity for also this big university to see how this Federation is working and how the universities in the Islamic world are working also we have in the center for the promotion of scientific research and the Islamic body on ethics of science and technology and these are supporting institutions to help the main work in its field of competence also we have special programs because we are an organization working for the development of our member states we are also an organization that's working for opening the windows and building bridges with other cultures and civilizations and nations so we created the program of ambassadors for dialogue among cultures and civilizations and the first ambassadors who are now functioning officially as a Cisco's ambassadors are the former prime minister of Malaysia Mahadur Muhammad and he is a well-known intellectual he is by the way a pediatric but he is a statement and an outspoken person and the former crown prince of Jordan Prince Al-Hasan and the first lady of Azerbaijan because we cannot forget ladies and she is a very bright eye specialist she is a doctor and the former director general of UNESCO Mr. Muhtarambu from Senegal and also the former head of Mars exploration program in NASA Sheikh Mudib Udiara from Mali and I will tell you a story about this gentleman I was ten years ago traveling from Rabat to Paris in France and I sat next to me was this very healthy and tall African gentleman and I thought he was a mentor of a Sufi order I thought he was from the Tijani order or the Murides so I sat politely next to him and after we were in the air we started talking and I said I am so-and-so and introduced myself to him he said welcome I am Sheikh Mudib Udiara I am the chairman of Mars exploration program in NASA I said what? Mars exploration program and I thought you were a leader of a Sufi order and he started laughing he said no no I am really a scientist I live in Pasadena in California and he gave me his card I said this is what I want after three months we are holding the first conference for the ministers of higher education and scientific research and I want you to be the keynote speaker please so he accepted then he came and I also invited Ahmed Zuhail you know Ahmed Zuhail he is here and he came and also I invited Farooq Al-Baz the geologist in also NASA and he is now in Boston so these scholars from the Islamic world who are you know American citizens also and who helped you know in developing science and technology and you know space technology and space exploration to a very high level so Sheikh Mudib Udiara also our ambassador for dialogue and cultures and civilizations and many other personalities also we have the Supreme Council for Education Science and Culture outside the Islamic world and this council is composed of 12 personalities from heads of Islamic institutions in the West and Latin America and Southeast Asia so we have from Italy the president he is an Italian Muslim and we have from North America Dr. Hattab is in Isna and we have from France from Spain and from Singapore and some other countries I don't remember now and from Argentina from Buenos Aires and this council is to help SSCO in implementing its programs for Muslims in the member states and you know in training teachers the volume curricula giving assistance helping the institutions and also working for the youth to help the youth guide them and put them in the track of indulging themselves in constructive work in their societies and integrating in their societies also to be influential and productive elements in those societies also we have SSCO's prizes for Science Technology Literature Education Research and Literacy and we have the capitals of Islamic culture each year we have three capitals we started this program in 2005 we started with Mecca because it was the origin of Islam the birthplace of the prophet and then we started every year starting from 2006 up to now we choose three capitals to be capitals of culture and the purpose of this program is to put this capital in the spot of news in the front lines and also to give the people of the capital a chance to receive guests from different countries whether from OIC member states or from different countries who hold weeks of culture activities art activities, festivals, music and all sorts of things and that is cultural exchange and cultures meet and the people of culture meet and exchange their expertise and their ideas and because of that we promote good politics we work on good politics the politics that bring people together create friendship among them identify misconceptions correct the stereotype about nations and peoples and religions also we are involved in the religious dialogue and I personally am a member of the Islamic Christian forum or dialogue and we held many meetings either in the Vatican or in some Muslim countries and it made a lot of progress in bringing ideas closer to one another and we issued many bulletins with the religious Christian authorities and now we have widened this to include Jewish clergy people and I have been appointed also in the Board of Trustees of the World Congress of Religion for Peace which is based in New York and the Secretary General is my friend William Bentley so the Cisco is not only in mental issues and politics in the means in the sense of bringing people together but also in spreading good word that bring religions and the adherence to religions closer to one another because we are all the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve we are all human beings and I always repeat this the fourth caliph of Islam, Imam Ali of Egypt at that time Malik Ibn al-Ashtar told him to be just for all, he said look on those who are under your governorship or authority and there are two kinds either a brother in religion or a brother in humanity so be fair to them all so this concept that has to be always disseminated and shared and accepted by all people that we are also in our background but in the final analysis we are human beings we are brothers and sisters in this sense and we have to cherish this and keep it we have also Cisco's centers for training audiovisual and multimedia production to help the media people from our member states develop their talents and capacities we have 175 protocol and cooperation agreements with various institutions and this shows it here I won't just read it because you can see it all the UN all the non-government we have a very wide network of cooperation the special areas of focus I mentioned some of them we shouldn't have a long time on this but I would like to emphasize a very important issue that Cisco is proud of you see we started in 1982 now we are in our 28th year we are still young I mean Cisco is like a young girl very pretty, very rich everybody wants to get married to her and this brings a lot of envy and a lot of competition and we have to be very careful in behaving in handling our affairs in presenting ourselves and also keeping our commitments to cherish and protect this position that we have created for ourselves and it is a difficult task but I am very proud to say that you know sometimes one cannot praise him or herself but I am very proud to say that Cisco now is sold after many organizations come to Cisco to ask its partnership and I will give you three examples three years ago in 2008 it was in 2008 at the beginning of the year we held a very big conference in Tunisia and I convinced the United Nations to join us and guess who came Ban Ki-moon I convinced the people of the United Nations to join Cisco because this is a very important issue for the whole world terrorism cannot be fought by soldiers and airplanes and tanks it has to be also fought by changing the rotten ideas in the minds we have to go deep into the roots of why those young people are committing these crimes while they are deviating from the right path we have to work on their minds and on their souls so we convened this big conference and it was inaugurated under the patronage of the president of Tunisia who opened the first session and Mr. Ban Ki-moon came and it was a success and this is a prestige for Cisco for the director general to sit next to the secretary general and to be a partner with the UN the second example is the World Bank some people say what does Cisco have to do with the World Bank but we convinced Robert Zulek to be a partner with Cisco last year we held a big conference also in Tunisia on the economy of information how to integrate and use the modern information system and developments in economics and the World Bank came and joined Cisco as a full partner so Cisco now sits between the World Bank and the UN and this is a high level for an intergovernmental organization working in a very specific region and the third example is with the international francophonic organization which is the baby of France to convince France and the French mentality that you are good enough to be a partner with the francophonic world it's a difficult job I know but we managed to do that and the francophonic organization joined the ranks with Cisco also and we held another conference and the secretary general Mr. Abdul Duf came and we sat next to each other and we made a very successful conference these three examples I'm bringing here to show that Cisco is a successful organization otherwise these people won't come and join us and we'll never sit with us and sign a declaration that after we finish our deliberations and our work we sign it and publish it to the whole world and to keep and to improve and this visit to the United States lies in this context I came here to see that Cisco is also working with the institutions in the United States for a better understanding between the OIC member states and the United States and I'm very happy to say that I started very early not today for this encounter and for this experience in Turkey I was invited by the High Commissioner of the Alliance of Civilization the former president of Portugal Mr. George Sampaio with whom we have also a memorandum of understanding and we hosted the third vocal point meeting in our headquarters in Rabat and 80 representatives of 80 states from the world and 28 international organizations came to Cisco's headquarters so I was in Istanbul attending the second meeting of the Alliance of Civilization Civilizations and Mr. Obama was in Turkey so the president of Turkey Mr. Abdullah Gul offered a reception for the heads of the delegations and they were the prime minister of Spain Mr. Sabatiro and the secretary general of the Arab League and the OIC and many foreign ministers and dignitaries from many countries standing there in the lounge drinking our drinks and teas and things like that and suddenly Mr. Obama entered and it was a very surprising event for all these people to see the president of the United States coming to the hall without knowing that he would come so I was among those who came and shook hands with him and I stood with the president I said I am so and so I am the director general of Cisco here you speak in Istanbul and also the ideas you said are what we are working for and Cisco can be helpful in this respect and he was very kind to stand and exchange ideas and talks with me and then we took a photograph together and left I think this was the first triggering incident that made me think really in terms of yes, come to America America is the biggest power in the world America is the dream for many people in the world America is the country that has all the capacities, all the abilities all the potentials to lead the world and to be an example for the protection of justice freedom and integration of nations on the basis of mutual respect and sharing interests as Mr. Obama has said and we are with him we support him we support the American people to be leaders we support the American leadership in the world for these principles because America has a moral duty before being the first country in the world in terms of power and ability and advancement in science and technology and works of life America is a dream for many people and make it, as they say we make it in America and many people succeeded and I gave three examples I gave Farooq Al-Baz and Ahmad Zuwail and Sheikh Mudi Baudiara these are great scientists they were here and they had their education in the United States and became famous and one of them got the Nobel Prize so Isosco is keen on building these bridges and I forget what happened in Detroit it is an incentive it is an incentive for me to be more forceful and courageous to come to the United States because I love this country I studied here in 1975 till 1982 where I got my MA and PhD in the University of Oregon and two of my boys were born in America and they have American citizenship and I'm proud of this part of my education part of my existence because I learned a lot of things here and when I came to the United States in 1975 the first step that we made we stopped in New York and it was a cultural shock for me coming from Saudi Arabia it's a developing country but you know not compared to the United States and the first thing I see Empire State Building and those skyscrapers so it was a cultural shock anyway but that was not the issue before that and I invited with my brother four of the professors to our home we offered them dinner and we just received them with warmth and friendship and they were very happy and they said when you come to the United States don't forget to call us and come to see us and one of them I still remember his name is Professor Samuel Braden he was professor of economics at Indiana University so when we arrived in New York after we finished our formalities with the Saudi cultural mission we arrived in and he said where are you? we are in New York he said you have to come to Albany in Indiana oh my God Albany where Albany? we are going my brother was going to Indiana to Bloomington I was going to Eugene Oregon so I said to my brother let's go to Albany and see Professor Samuel Braden because we would like to see his family and his wife and the city where he lives so he asked us to take the plane from LaGuardia Airport I've never been in Louisville but I know Louisville it's the homeland of Muhammad Ali so we were fond of Muhammad Ali at that time so I said okay that's another reason to go to see Professor Samuel Braden to go to Louisville so we took the plane from LaGuardia Airport to Louisville and at the airport we found Professor Samuel Braden waiting for us and he helped us carry our suitcases and put it in his car and he was across the river Louisville in the side and Albany is on the other side and he insisted that we stay with him three days I think he learned that Arabs host their guests for three days and he didn't let us we stayed with him three days and that was the first time when I had the Big Mac so it was a very beautiful experience but the story that I told Dr. Said when we went to Bloomington also another professor who was in Indiana he was the dean of library sciences and he invited us for dinner in his home and he took us in his car around Bloomington to see the city myself, my wife I was married at that time and my brother so we passed by a villa a nice home and there was a gentleman with a shirt you know painting his home so the professor said I forgot what it was and they exchanged greetings and then he drove away and he said this is the president of Indiana University and this was another cultural shock for me because the president of my university was a very important person so this was another beautiful thing I learned in America humbleness people serve themselves this is a pride for the individual and the seven years I spent in Eugene, Oregon it was an exceptional life I think it was really the secret behind my successes so with this I will include because America is very important and we are here because we love America thank you very much yes ma'am I think you wanted to ask another question I was wondering if you have any advice for someone who's interested in doing research on various things about Islam specifically Islamic finance here but for someone going over there what advice could you give them if you're studying consumers how to understand what the average Arab person or Muslim person feels sorry I know those are not the same things no it's okay because there are many Europeans studying in the universities in the Islamic countries we have some in Egypt in Jordan in Morocco and we have American students and European students also in Malaysia the Islamic International University in Kuala Lumpur so it is easy for a researcher or a person who wants to pursue certain studies in the Islamic countries they have the ability and the venues to achieve that is that what you asked about sort of but if you want to do consumer demand for Takaful Islamic insurance let's say how do I know who buys these products things like that how important are Muslim beliefs to the average Muslim versus obviously different levels of there are institutions which are specialized in this kind of work of specialty the IDB the Islamic Development Bank in Jeddah the Islamic chambers of commerce and the Islamic Center for Trade in Casablanca in Morocco the Islamic Center for Statistics and Economics in Ankara in Turkey if you want me I will provide you with the addresses and telephone numbers of these situations maybe you can contact them there will be a great help to you yes absolutely thank you very much very enlightening talk and it is quite enlightening to see this explosion of organizations and I think you are perhaps too modest this is your work as the director general of Yesco You have actually built this huge network and I think it's much to your credit to do this and I congratulate you for it and also apologize for my colleagues at the customs but I have another problem what are we to think of for example the extensive Saudi financing of Madrasas throughout Asia and television programs that promote Wahhabism which is not I think the most tolerant form of Islam on NPR Friday night we heard an Egyptian journalist sort of bemoaned the fact that there comes a strong message not of tolerance and peace but of exclusion on the Saudi supported stations what are we to think of that in the past this could be the case there were some kind of closed minded conservative approach by the religious authorities and the government was not 100% supportive of that but you know these were done through charitable channels and not through governmental direct aid now the situation is completely the opposite King Abdullah is launching reformation process in the religious field in the social field in the educational and scientific field and the evidence to that is the re-creation and the reformation of the Supreme Council of Ulama in Saudi Arabia but now they have included other Muslim schools of thought the Hanafi, the Maliki the other you know other experiences within the Islamic field of jurisprudence and the King himself launched his initiative for dialogue and convened a big conference in Mecca for the Muslim scholars from all the Islamic countries and then he held another meeting in Madrid with the King of Spain Juan Carlos and to that conference he invited all the religious authorities in the world the Catholics the Protestants the Jews the Muslims, the Buddhists and many you know heads of religious institutions and this was a breakthrough and then he moved further to New York in the United Nations General Assembly and Chairman Perez attended so this is you know something that took place under the supervision and leadership of King Abdullah and I don't think the government is supporting Madrasas the government now is not supporting any religious institution in anywhere but the governmental organizations and the doesn't give any assistance to private institutions or religiously oriented Madrasas which are hard liners you know conservatives as you have said Wahhabism and Wahhabism was distorted by the alamas of the school itself in the beginning it wasn't like that but you know if you read the text of the founder of this reformation process it is different from what his students are doing or were doing in the few past years so I assure you that the Saudi government now is not doing anything that encourages such close minded and fundamentalist in the sense which represents now movements in Asia or in Africa and I witness to that we live in the member states and we meet the people there and I think this trend has been and is decreasing very very strongly a little bit related question a little bit of question I am interested in the role of Al-Azhar University in Egypt because especially in the politics in 17th or 16th this university take a major role in to fight against the Islam and so how about the contemporary role of this university in the Islamic world Al-Azhar has been going through difficult times because it is under the supervision of the government in the old time Al-Azhar was an independent institution and the Sheikh Al-Azhar was elected now Sheikh Al-Azhar is appointed by the president of the republic and he has to be in line with the government's policies and government's choices but with this reality it doesn't affect the role of Al-Azhar Al-Azhar is a very original and strong institution a moderate institution the al-Azhar's al-Azhar are open minded the majority of them and the texts taught in Al-Azhar are, you know, diversified you know, they learn about all the sects of thought even Imam Ja'far Shia school of thought and what Al-Azhar needs now and I'm very happy that few hours ago we were talking about the initiative by Al-Azhar to send some of their graduates some of their preachers and ulama's to be trained here and also they will be trained also in Al-Azhar itself so they will be equipped with knowledge with languages with insight about the world when they go outside there will be forces of moderation of bringing people together making peace and fraternity among the nations and the peoples of the world to say something I was in Argentina and in Chile and in Lima Lima four years ago I was attending a big meeting with the heads of the religious authorities in Peru there was the cardinal of the Catholic church and the rabbi of the Jewish synagogue and the Imam of the Muslim mosque and there were many people attending and I was the guest of honor and they were very kind to give me decoration so I gave a speech on the role of the religious authority in creating understanding and fraternity among the followers of the different religions because they have a great responsibility because if we have good clergy people whether Muslims, Christian Jews or Buddhists, whatever if we have good people disseminating and preaching goodness and peace and love and fraternity they will participate in listening the impact of tension and animosity and misconception among peoples and nations in the world so I was talking about this issue very strongly and after I finished an old lady she was a nun very old she was listening there she was listening to me she said this is the first time I hear such beautiful spiritual advices to us and I thank you very much I said would you allow me to give you Mother Teresa medal it was a gold medal as a gift to you because of the spirit you are given here and I think this is the responsibility of us educators religious authority people of culture media has a great role to play because the media can make people either peaceful or they can make them forceful otherwise because if you disseminate wrong information or if you cover the news in a certain way that make people furious and ready to react violently you are participating or adding oil to the fire but if you cover the media the events in a rational way giving all the truth all the facts about the event then you are letting people judge themselves you don't force them to believe in something and I think this is our responsibility all in all our fields of competence whether we are educators professors in universities or researchers or media people or culture people or even religious authority yes I think so for coming you have given me a really a source of enthusiasm and happiness to talk to you and I hope I have said something meaningful to you and thanks a lot it's we who thank you


At Audiology Associates of Prestonsburg, you can live your life the way you want and find the freedom of better hearing. You'll experience patient care that is specific to you with exceptional follow-up care that ensures your hearing and balance needs are being met. Audiology Associates at 1428 Northlake Drive in Prestonsburg. In celebration of the recent acquisition of Elite Insurance, People's Insurance held a grand opening on Monday, July 18th in Coal Run, Kentucky. The merger is bringing great promise to the committed staff and humble community members. It's been exciting times for us and through the acquisition and everyone has been extremely busy learning the new process for some of the new people. But just been a great time, a lot of different expertise now, a lot of more competitive pricing and just be able to have more on our team to give an overall better client relationships and to take care of the clients better. So it's been a really good process thus far with our new team coming on to be part of People's Insurance. With a strong emphasis on community, People's Insurance has high hopes for future growth. Their plan is to establish a strong clientele and experienced staff that can offer more than competitors. Our future just keeps getting brighter and brighter as we have a stronger stance which opens us up to even more opportunities to help people as we've continued to grow here in eastern Kentucky and other areas throughout our footprint. So again, just been able to offer more products and more solutions and give a top notch client experience. That is what we're after. And as we bring on and have brought on more people with their experience and their expertise, hopefully we'll continue to grow and know that we'll be able to pass that on to the clients that choose us to service them for all their insurance needs. Reporting from Coal Run, Kentucky for Mountain Top News, I'm Nick Collum.


I have the pleasure of welcoming and introducing the team from SNAPIT, the SNAPIT CEO, Amanda Barney, talking to integrating AI in the electronic monitoring system for more accurate, verifiable data. My name is Amanda Barney and I'm the CEO of Team Fish. Today I want to talk about the way that we've integrated AI into our electronic monitoring work. Really quickly, I'll introduce myself and Chris Rodley. Then I'll talk about why we're using AI in our EM work. Then I will give an overview of some of the work that we've done to date in using AI in EM, what our next steps are, and then finally I want to talk about our vision for the future of AI in EM and the key needs that need to be addressed in order for real progress to be made in this area. At the end, Chris and I will be available for questions. As I said, I'm Amanda Barney, the CEO of Team Fish. I've been running this company since it was launched in 2019 and have been working in EM for over nine years and in fisheries in general since the late 90s. Team Fish is a federally designated electronic monitoring service provider. We are running regulated and pilot programs around the world and really pride ourselves on the delivery of accurate, verifiable and reliable data. Chris Rodley, who is not presenting but is here to answer questions, is the CEO and co-founder of Snap Information Technology. Chris has got over 14 years of business and startup leadership and has a lifetime of innovating and developing different technologies. Chris runs Snap IT, Snap Information Technology. They were founded in 2007 and are from New Zealand. Snap IT is a really incredible group of highly skilled and dedicated software developers, electronic engineers and mechanical engineers. They build state-of-the-art cameras that are put on fishing vessels to collect data. They also develop, support and build the hardware, firmware and analysis software that we use to collect the EM data we do and to deliver EM programs. The reason that Team Fish and Snap IT decided to look at how AI could be used in electronic monitoring is because from a logistical point of view, there are two main reasons that we are seeing difficulty in EM scaling and that's really because of the amount of time it can take to review EM data and EM footage and find the things you're looking for. So if you're running a camera 24-7, you're not necessarily fishing 24-7 and so you need to find the events, the particular events or particular data sources that you're looking for. So AI could really help in isolating the events that you may be looking for to collect data. Also AI could be used to reduce the overall data capture that you face. So really, how can we use AI to make EM more efficient by helping video reviewers do their job more quickly and by potentially reducing the amount of data that we actually collect? Some of the work that we've done in AI was with the Hawaii Long Line Fishery. So in this project, we collected EM data on five different vessels and we used machine learning and AI algorithms inside of the video review process. So what we did is we were testing and training algorithms to identify fishing activity for us but also identify things on deck to get to the point where it would only be identifying fish on deck for us and eventually by having people identify those fish to species, we are helping in a global effort to develop species identification algorithms. So this particular project was really how can we use AI in the video analysis process to help make it more effective and also potentially to help in some global AI development. The second example I'll give you is an example from the recreational fishery. In this example, what we did is we installed an electronic monitoring system on a fixed point on land and we collected footage from a particular pass that had fishing vessels coming and going. For a particular day of the year when a recreational fishery was open, we trained the AI to count the number of vessels that were coming and going. This was done as a means to determine the actual effort that was participating in this fishery because the camera is in one place and you're just asking the AI to let you know when an object is breaking the plane. This was a relatively easy use case for AI and we're seeing this technology getting replicated in other sites around North America. Finally, a project that Snap IT did in 2018 with some trawl and long line fisheries in New Zealand was to look at whether or not you could actually use AI on the vessel to reduce the data that is being transmitted back to shore or the amount of data that's being put on the hard drive and then collected from the vessel. So what they were doing was using AI on the vessel to identify fishing activity and only putting that data, only kind of highlighting that data as needing to come off the vessel. This was just an experiment but the lab results showed that in some fisheries you could reduce the amount of data you need to remove from a vessel by up to 98%. So what are the next steps? These are great projects and we had some excellent results but one of the things that we found is when we have tried to take an algorithm that has been tested and trained on a particular vessel and has become very good at reducing the video review time and we move it to another vessel, it's not as good because every vessel looks a little different and so we really need to spend time developing AI that can be used across fleets and across fisheries. We need to have a production level pipeline that will allow us to just introduce the AI to huge amounts of footage so that it becomes efficient at finding the things we want it to find across multiple vessels and for different fisheries. We have every confidence that this technology is applicable and useful but we want to bring it to scale so that the full potential of AI is tapped. Right now we have an review platform that is also an AI testing and training pipeline. So this review platform exists and it really acts as a super data storage system. We can take in data from not just video cameras but from other sensors and we would really like to build this into a global or larger AI platform and global marketplace because as we said these algorithms that are being developed need to be run on just tons and tons of video so that those algorithms get good at doing their job on lots of different vessels and don't become so highly trained on a small sample size that they become really ineffective at scale. The key needs that we need, the things that we really need to see this progress happen is we need to make sure that there's trust in the models that are being developed that people believe that the AI is not missing things. That's top thing. The quality and the reliability of the data cannot come into question. We really need scaled government projects that target specific fisheries management outcomes and that identify AI as an essential tool for delivery. If everyone is thinking about AI and it's built into the development plan for a particular fishery and for EM then we start the project off knowing that EM is going to have to work for a huge number of fisheries and so your development starts at the right scale and we're not trying to take a trial and grow it bigger. We're thinking big at the beginning. We really need a thriving climate and blue tech investor market so that we can get funds for this kind of innovation and AI production capacity and then we believe that we really need a fisheries and maritime AI marketplace so that this AI can start to be shared globally among companies, governments and NGOs. In order to deliver big, we need to plan big. Thank you very much for your time today and as I said myself and Chris Rodley are available for questions. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story Amanda and I believe Chris is there with you. My question talks very much to that top requirement. It works and we need to get to scale which came through strongly in your talk what we found discussing these, I love the camera angle you had at the side of the boat, what we find from other groups during the forum is that we had a situation where they had surprises like for example they found when they were trying to identify fish that working on tail section and head section helped them to understand what fish were. They also found that they could start to get to questions they didn't even know so for example can they start to record hooks that bring back bait and hooks that come back unbaited but don't have a catch. I just wondered if you can share some of the surprises that happened in the journey for yourself and Chris on the kinds of things that made a difference.  You're talking about transferring between vessels but even on a similar vessel with under very different lighting conditions the AI performs differently. So any of the stories along your journey which were surprising and offered new opportunities? Sure I'll let Chris jump in in a moment. I think one of the surprising things was how well the AI did right away on our small sample sizes and I think for me in particular I think I thought it was a solution before it was because the AI would do really well and we'd have a small sample size and we'd be doing a proof of concept and we'd be demonstrating and be like wow they're really fighting the fish this is terrific and then it would be a second vessel with a similar deck setup but as you said it could be slightly different lighting or maybe the measuring strip or the background was a little bit different and suddenly it wasn't doing well at all and so to us I think that was one of the biggest surprises was that we were expecting in some fisheries better results out of the gate and Chris I'll hand it over to you because you might be able to explain what I'm saying a little bit better but that's what I found surprising was just how smart the AI can get quickly and how you can overtrain something before you think you may be overtrained it. Yeah it's so good I think that's that's really true so we you're able to make incredible progress in a really short period of time and then is that is the diminishing returns is what we I found really interesting so as you you assume that as you transfer that data from one vessel to another that the work that was done on vessel A is going to contribute and produce something that's better than starting from scratch on vessel B what we found was it was actually that baseline you have to work that out for for all vessels and so from our approach we're really focused on designing systems that are easy to train and that can be specifically trained to a gear type and vessel that's a real key and I think the other thing that we found really interesting was when you look at the cost of an electronic monitoring program it's reviewing data followed by storage followed by transmission followed by the camera so you've got this these things that are above and so our focus recently has been really around how do we see that AI actually run on the vessel because what that does is it reduces the need to transmit as much data and it reduces the need to store as much data and therefore the cost so we've been working really hard with my engineers to get hardware that's AI capable that can run what's called on the edge and we found that really interesting as well when you look at cost of a program so I'm going to hand over to Matt because Matt is actually working on some of these on the edge tools and he's probably got some nice questions oh yeah thanks Amanda and Chris great presentation and lovely to see that timeline of work as well yeah I do I do work in some IoT domains but what I wanted to ask you is really about what lessons you've learned over that period of time about putting IoT devices or edge computing on board stakeholder vessels what have you learned from working with the stakeholders and what knowledge have you gained over that period of time I think that's really important it's kind of weird to put something like that on a boat isn't it yeah I think we've always found ever since I will say the early days of EM but 2002 when we were first putting cameras on some vessels in British Columbia regardless of whether or not that camera has IoT capabilities you need to have a pretty thoughtful handed conversation with people about the fact that you're recording video on their home and where they work and so I think it's just been an evolution of that original conversation we're going to be recording you we're looking for information there's lots of things we're not looking for we're not recording sound that's always a really that's a really big deal to make sure people know we're not recording sound and then it suddenly changes so you're having the same conversation but you have to let them know that there is the potential that there could actually be some processing happening on their vessel or how do they feel about imagery being shared outside of just the regulatory program and it always comes down to a conversation and you have to make sure it's an honest conversation that that you believe that there is going to be some value that's going to be coming back to that fishery or to that individual fisherman or at the very least it isn't going to do them some sort of personal or business harm so Chris can talk a little bit more about how there might be a slightly more technical conversation but I don't actually think it's a huge change in the conversation we always need to have when we say we're going to we're going to record we're going to record you at work and then watch you work it's it's already it's already a tough conversation and it's got to be really honest and thoughtful thank you very much. Chris did you want to add anything to that from the technical side of you know jumping on people's boats and hooking up to their electrical systems and then going back to change things all the time or anything like that? Yeah I mean you don't get a more harsh environment I think than the fishing boat my joke is I prefer to install hardware in a volcano probably won't get damaged as much we've had a lot of broken arms bleeding noses and a few other people attending this have walked that journey and I think it's incredibly difficult we have a tendency now to really over engineer so we've come up with ways where we can purge our cameras we've purged our cameras with argon which is really dry so that moisture doesn't seep out of the capacitors when it's running an Antarctica and condensate on the front of the glass on the inside we have tested to 2,000 meters underwater now and we anodize our own aluminium just to make sure that the process is strong we do our own machine work and CNC work of all our implosures and yeah we just if I ever see water in a camera again I will curl up in the corner and rock backwards and forwards it's it's just really essential that gear is reliable and it's probably the most essential element because of the cost of it not being reliable and so we've we've invested a lot in that and we've had a lot of hard lessons to hear your story because we're not only talking about the human dimension of difficulties but you know just the the kinds of environments you're working in and as you pointed out the costs you know there's costs right down the chain and it's not the case that once you've got the code you're ready to go sort of thing you know this is an ongoing story so