a manufactured dwelling? No, it's not. It's a site built. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? I have another question. Mr. Kim. Did you consider approaching self-help which owns a big wide lot next door about getting a few feet from them? No, I did not approach anybody about that. I bought the lot and bought it a while ago with Mr. Ranterra and I have never approached anybody about getting extra square footage. I have found that's usually more of a hassle than it is worth it because then you have to make the lot conforming. So it's not like I can just get a few square feet. I have to get enough to make it up to a conforming lot. And so that would be difficult to be able to do that. It's like, I think 20 and a 25 feet I would have to get to be able to bring it up to performing, right? 50 feet, so I'm pretty sure it is. Any other questions for the applicant? Just gonna shuffle through here. Cole, do you have a recommendation for this group? Chairman Rogers, I have one question for the applicant. Go ahead, Mike. I'm sorry. That's okay. Did you reach out to the other property owners for any effects of what you're trying to build to the adjacent property owners? No, this one doesn't require, this minor special use permit didn't require any notification of anybody outside of what the city notified. So everybody would have got the letter in the mail like my other ones I've done for these. I usually just follow the UDO and I'm just following the UDO exactly what the UDO says. So it's not like I'm developing a quad or anything there. I'm putting a single family house there. So I just did exactly what the UDO said for this one. Thanks. All right, one thing I forgot to mention is there anyone here to speak in, else to speak in favor for this application for a minor special use permit? I'm just going through here. I don't see anybody. Is there anybody here to speak against this application for a minor special use permit? Again, I don't see anyone. Cole, do you have a recommendation? I do. A staff recommends approval that all the improvements be consisted with any information submitted in the application. All right, well, let's, would you mind stop sharing the screen for a moment so we can see everybody? All right, any thoughts? Discussion, deliberations, dialogue. A mobile home is 16 feet wide. This is a narrow house. A single wide mobile home is 16 feet wide. Your homes on, I don't know actually. The homes on 98 or, what's it called? What road has come down? Guest road are very similar to this. The homes on guest road are very similar to this. You go down guest road coming from North Durham. You're in a little house, right? Like it's actually a house house. No little house is there. Just a shotgun house.  And you're talking about the new houses on guest road well, new that are kind of stuck in between the existing homes. Correct, yes, ma'am. Those houses on the left as I come, I'm developing up in Northern Durham in the Treyburn. When I come down guest going back to downtown you can see them on the left there. Okay. Very similar to that. Okay. Any thoughts? I mean, it's unique. It's not something that we see every day but it seems like he met the standards. Okay. One more question. I assume the driveway is gonna be in the front. Yeah, there.  There is no, you won't be able to get a driveway on the side. So I'll either push the house back or you guys don't have a minimum driveway length from what I remember. I just live a minimum parking. So I'll just come in front of it and widen out to the front. I did this at 1010 Holloway Street as well. I'm building there and same thing. And 1112 Spruce Street for driveways. Okay. It's a very, very narrow car. Black family's car. They got the Fiat smart cars. Right. I'm selling to a certain clientele. No cars, now bus or app or transport. There you go guys. All right. Any other thoughts? We've got a recommendation for approval by staff. There's any, few people have offered some opinions. Does anyone wanna offer a motion? Jeter. A motion that, oh wait, I thought I had it. Sorry. Oh, this is the order. This isn't the motion. Oh, I don't have it. Let's go further down on the order. The Americans at the bottom of the staff report. What? All right. I can offer a motion if you can't find it. Is Jeter. Go ahead Mike. I hereby make a motion application. The second one would be to 1-0-0-0-1-4. An application for a minor specialist permit for development of a legal non-conforming lot with a width less than 30 feet on property located at 712 Kent Street has successfully met the applicable requirements of the unified development ordinance. And it's hereby granted subject to the following conditions. The improvements shall be substantially consistent with the all information submitted to the board as part of this application. We've got a motion for approval by Mike Regulus. Is there a second? Micah? Second. Mr. Jeter. Susan, what'd you call everyone? Ms. Bouchain? Yes. Ms. Major? Yes. Ms. Jeter? Yes. Mr. Regulus? Yes. Mr. Rogers? Yes. Mr. Meadows? Yes. Mr. Kip? Yes. Motion carries 7-0. I'll vote a 7-0. Your minor special use permit has been approved. You'll get an order shortly and we appreciate you for coming before the BOA this morning. Thanks, guys. Have a great day. You too. All right, we're on our final one, final case of the day. Do we need a quick break or we want to go through it? Okay, we'll continue. Susan, call the case. Case B21-0015. A request for a variance from the required structured parking ground floor design standards. The subject site is located at 130 South Mangum Street, is in downtown design and in the downtown tier. This case has been advertised for the required period of time and property owners within 600 feet have been notified, notarized affidavits, verifying the sign postings and letter mailings are on file. And the seating for this case is Mr. Kipp, Ms. Dermados, Mr. Rogers, Mr. Retchless, Ms. Jeter, Ms. Major, and Ms. Bouchang. Thank you, Susan. All right, so everyone who plans on giving testimony will have to collect a, I guess your swearing in or I guess for those who have already done it, they don't have to, but so we'll need your video on for whoever plans on doing this. So Scott Harmon, plan on, okay. All right, and if you'll raise your right hand, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you give today is the truth and nothing but the truth? And I want to kind of start at the bottom here of my screen, Ashley Young, I got to have you unmuted, sorry. Apologies, yes, I do. Scott Harmon. Yes. Dan Jewel and Andy Porter. Yes, yes. And also do you consent to this remote meeting platform? Andy? Yes. Dan, I'm guessing yes. Yes. Scott Harmon. Yes. And Ashley Young. Yes. Thank you so much. Eliza, is this yours? Yep, it is. I can do it. I will take it away. Thanks. Eliza, I know you're here, everybody speaking from the planning department. I'm representing the planning department, excuse me. Planning staff request that the staff report in all materials submitted to the public hearing be made part of the public record with the necessary corrections as noted. Noted and thank you. Thank you. Oh, I should probably share my screen. I was like, why can I still see everybody? Here we go. Case B2100015 is a request for a variance from the required structured parking ground floor design standards. The applicant is Coulter Jewel Thames and the subject site is located at 130 South Magnum Street. Oops. The case here is actually highlighted in blue, a little bit different than normal. The red parcels are typically once they're highlighted for historic districts. So to distinguish on this screen, highlighted in blue, the site is zoned Downtown Design Core or DDC and is a local historic landmark and within the downtown development tier. On this screen, you'll see that it's highlighted in red. It gives you an aerial of what's currently there. It's currently a parking lot. It's got a little over 15 spaces there. And this here is a rendering that was provided by the applicant after the original advertising date. But it shows a little bit of what the nature of the request is here. So for section 16.3.2a.3 of the unified development ordinance, ground floor parking, ground floor frontage along the right of way shall only be uses other than parking. This section focus on the structured parking design standards within the downtown development tier. Section 16.3.2a.3a further states that the area required for those uses other than parking shall have a minimum interior depth of 20 feet and a minimum clear clearing height of 14 feet. The applicant is requesting a variance from UDO section at 16.3.2a.3a to permit a 12 feet, one and three quarter deep interior space with a 14 foot minimum height clearance along the Ramster Street frontage of the property. UDO section 3.14.8 establishes four findings that the applicant must make in order for the board to grant a variance. These findings requiring approval are identified in the staff report and the applicant's responses to these findings are identified in the application, both of which are within your packet and staff would be available for any questions as needed during the hearing process. Not just this rendering, but the site plans also available as well and can be shifted through if the applicant or the board needs it. Thank you, Eliza. It looks like we've got a question from Chad. You know what? You know I've got a question. So Eliza, please explain the importance of the 20 foot. I think that's what's being, the variance is sought for the 20 foot depth. What is the rationale for that requirement? I'm gonna read directly from the ordinance. It just gave me one second. I thought I had it queued up, but it has escaped me. Apologies, I'm working on my iPad and it's giving me a little bit of dilemma. Give me one moment, please. I'll read directly from section 16.3.2 of the Unified Development Ordinance. So within section 16.3.2, it just mentions that this is the minimum interior depth for a retail space or non-residential, non-parking use space. So I'm not sure exactly the intended use here, but essentially that is the minimum interior depth for that type of usage of space. So the minimum is 20 feet with a minimum depth of 20 feet and a minimum clear ceiling height of 14 feet is what the code requires just as the minimum building design depth. Mr. Meadows, you're muted. Thank you. One more question for you. What is the parking requirement for the use that's proposed and how many parking spaces are provided? Parking, there is no minimum requirement within the downtown development tier. So the parking would be based upon the use and then you're allowed to provide the maximum is 100% of what's required per use. What's going to proposed use here and I'll go a little bit. The parking is within that site data table, but I'll go a little bit so you can see the rendering. Proposed use here is going to be residential condominiums, which my screen's taking a little bit of a lag. So there's going to be, you'll see here, well, here we go, go back one screen. There are 22 parking stalls, which should be able to hold 52 parking spaces. They will be in the proposed design currently has the residents and individuals need to park here, entering along the side here down this alley and they'll be parking within these parking stalls. And the mechanism for parking is a mechanic garage. So if you've ever been to larger cities, you'll pull a car in and then it can move upward downward forward backward and allows for more parking. And that alternative design, which we don't commonly see, it was approved by the transportation department for them to proceed with that design style for the parking spaces. That was a long answer to essentially say about 52 spaces. They're providing 52 spaces and how many condominium units are there? Thank you. One, six, two per condominium. So give me one second. Computer, a little bit of a lag there. One second. Might just be easier to do it this way since it seems the file is a little bit long. Chair and Eliza, is it appropriate for us to interject if we have some correcting information at this point or should we wait until y'all invite us to speak? Mr. Chair, I would allow you to answer. Well, if you've got the correct answer, Scott, go ahead. We're providing 22 parking spaces in the stalls, not 52. My apologies for the fire in front. But 22 parking stalls and they're in the stacking configuration. And my computer is not cooperating at this time, but I will pull that information up and be able to share it in one moment. Okay, I realized some people might think it's tangential, but obviously my questions are gonna turn on the amount of space occupied by the parking on the ground floor and the inability to accommodate the additional square footage for the non-residential that's required under the UDO. I need to understand where we are in terms of parking and how that calculus was made. That's my line of questioning.  Gotcha. So you're wondering how many parking spaces have triggered per use? Yeah, I'm trying to understand. I understand there's no parking requirement, but I'm trying to get a handle on, are they providing more parking spaces and could perhaps remove one so they could accommodate the UDO or do they have to have the 22 that they've listed? That's the question. Gotcha. The parking requirements for use of multifamily or condo requires two per unit. They are showing a commercial retail residential that doesn't require any parking per section 10. So the maximum would be required for those 25 or 26 units would be 52 spaces maximum. They're providing 22 spaces. There is no minimum that needs to be provided within the downtown development tier. So they're not meeting necessarily the maximum or the amount required, but there's no minimum that they could provide less than 22, but they are providing 22. Thank you. All right, any other questions for Eliza before we hear from the applicant? All right, would the applicant like to, you Dan? Yes, sir, back again. Sorry, you have to see me twice this morning, but we'll go through this. Good morning again, Chair Rogers and board members, Dan Jewel with Cultural Jewel TEMS PA. We're the civil and engineers, landscape architects on this project. And our office is literally 100 feet away from this site at 111 West Main Street, Dagonley. With me this morning are Ashley Young, project architect with built form. Andy Porter who you saw a second ago sitting next to me, landscape architect, project manager with our office and of course Scott Harmon with the development team. And apologies in advance for repeating some things I gave you an hour ago, but I just wanted to get some stuff on the record. Good about my credentials. I have a professional degree in landscape architecture from Purdue University and I've been practicing as a licensed landscape architect in North Carolina for 36 years now with the bulk of that experience in Durham. And most of that work does involve design and preparation of site plans, preparation similar to this. And at this point, I'd also like to ask that all of our application materials be entered into the record. Thank you, Eliza for the very good summary of our application, the detailed staff report and general location of the project site. We're here this morning to expand upon that summary and provide supporting evidence for application in regards to the current conditions of the site, the expectations for development and the specific site conditions that create the hardship and why this, these findings support our request before you this morning. Specific to our case, the UDO has made generalized attempt to establish a set of prescriptive design rules that apply to every situation, every site, every quirk that is specific to a site. And those rules were intended to have some flexibility in cases with some hardship. And of course, that's why we're here. In this specific case, the hardship is created by several factors, not of our making. The vision for downtown that chapter 16 of the UDO guides is a denser urban form of development that promotes a mix of uses and a high level of much needed housing opportunities. This is housing that will allow residents to live downtown, support all of our great local businesses which need more customers right now as we know. And our proposal furthers the vision by providing just those housing opportunities in a scale and form prescribed by the UDO. Eliza, would you be able to pull the site rendering back up again that you had earlier? Perfect, thank you. There does exist a hardship that is quite peculiar to the site and that is not of our making. The site is unique in that the requirements of chapter 16 of the UDO prescribe that if an alley exists adjacent to a property, then service and parking access must be off of that alley. And of course, on the west side of this property, sort of running diagonally up through the center of the page, there is a public alley. So we are required to access off of that. In our case, we have Mangum Street and Ramsor Street on two sides and the Kress Building to the north. The dimension of the site along the alley side is very short. It can constrain by a code required exit stair on the back of the Kress Building. That's a little green box you see at the top of the rendered image. It's also constrained by the North Carolina Railroad right away to the south. I think many of you know that Ramsor Street is actually in the railroad right away. And even though our property line at Ramsor Street is a little bit closer to the curb, the North Carolina Railroad claims an additional five feet of right away, further conflicting and constraining our site. All told, this leaves only a hair over 67 feet in length to shoehorn everything into that alley frontage that the UDO describes needs to be there. And what needs to be there? Well, first it's that parking access. You've heard me say this before, but as much as we'd like to hope that our culture will move toward a less car dependent future, the need for parking is still a reality here in 2021. The market still demands parking and the banks still require parking to finance a project. And what we are seeing in projects these days is that the expectation is one parking space per residential unit. If I'd been in front of U7 or eight years ago, the banks would have been pushing for one and a half spaces per unit. So we're educating them, they're getting better than they are today. But what we are trying to provide is as close to one per possible. And we are proposing 22 spaces, which is actually a little less than one per unit. But we've been told that that would be satisfactory and the project can be financed and built with that. Eliza touched on this, but as another pretty extraordinary measure, what we're proposing on this site is to do the first ever mechanically stacked parking system in Durham. And that system has specific minimum depth and width dimensions, even with cars stacked three high as it will be. Additionally, the code requires that we provide a van accessible ADA parking space. If you provide one parking space, it has to be handicap accessible and it has to be van accessible. So as you can see from this plan, the light blue area just below the green box, that is the van accessible space. And of course, with the associated aisle that needs to go with it, that takes up about 16 feet of the alley. The stacked parking system that I mentioned a second ago, that is the brownish beige area in the middle. And that takes up the width needed for those spaces side by side. We had the choice of making that parking system deeper rather than the width that we've shown it. Meaning more cars would be parked in tandem, one in front of another rather than side by side. But in either case, the size of the site would have dictated that we would have needed some relief from the 20 feet of other use requirement between structured parking at the street. So the choice was between Mangum Street, which has historically been a retail street, an active street, the street that people walk to the D-Pak from downtown after dining and things of that nature. Or that we tried to get relief on the Ramzer Street side, which is not a retail street. In fact, those of you who have driven on Ramzer, the Durham Loop, as we affectionately know it, if you think about it hard, you realize that from the moment you peel off of Main Street on the western end of the loop, until you get three quarters of a mile east all the way to Pony Source Brewing, if you know where that is, there's only one use in the entirety of that north side of that frontage. Parking, parking lots, parking decks, and lower level parking for the county commissioners at the courthouse and lower level parking at the Durham Human Services Conflict. It's all parking. But we still need to meet the UDO requirement as best we can, and we will. So rather than the 20 feet that's prescribed, we are comfortable, and Scott can attest to this as his finances are on the line, we are comfortable that we can lease a space that is 12 feet, two inches deep, rather than 20 feet deep. And even though it's not explained in the ordinance, why it has to be 20 feet deep, I know because I've been involved with discussions on the UDO for many years, the basic intent is that was considered so the minimum depth to create a leasable space that a tenant would move into. But we think we've got a tenant that would be comfortable taking that space, having all the windows looking out at the D-Pack, and actually we've provided room for the required outdoor streetscape, some bistro tables and things of that nature. So we can actually create a 60 foot long, 50 foot long oasis of an active lively street front, which looks no different from the outside. It's only when you're inside you realize it's a little shallower, which would be the only bit of currently conforming form-based use in the entirety of the Durham loop. So to conclude, it is my professional opinion that unnecessary hardship results from the strict application of the ground floor, line or depth requirement in the UDO, resulting from conditions unique and peculiar to the property. As I stated, the very short distance, the requirement for the exit stair, the requirement for the handicap parking and the requirement to have some amount of parking on the site, which by the UDO has to be accessed off the alley. It's also my professional opinion that the hardship in this case is not caused by the owner applicant because it has not been subdivided or otherwise changed, but we are in fact compelled in order to meet the other requirements of the UDO and market realities of the parking. And we do feel that the choice to ask for the narrower space on Ramzer is a much better request than asking for a narrow space on Mangum, which is a more important retail street. And it's also my professional opinion that the requested variants will allow for development of the property consistent with the spirit, purpose and intent of the ordinance for the reasons I've described above. Let's hope we set a precedent and we get a good thing going and more spaces along Ramzer Street develop out as a nice form-based storefronts over time. So that concludes my testimony. Thank you for your time. And the team is here to answer any questions that you might have. And I believe that's the testimony for the entire team, Chairman Rogers. All right, does anybody have any questions or are any board members having a question for Dan or the applicant team? Natalie? I'm sorry if I missed it, but how many units exactly? We have 25 units and 22 parking spaces. So like I said, we tried to get close to the one per. We couldn't quite get there, but folks that will be financing this project seem to be comfortable with that. Any other questions? Just out of curiosity, the folks who live at Crests who will no longer have views south, were they notified? I know there's nothing they can do, zero lot line downtown, but just out of curiosity. Yeah, I'd like to let Scott, would you be comfortable speaking to that? I would, thanks for your question, Ian. I have met with the HOA at Crest and they actually have very few windows that face south and the ones that, there are a couple of units in the building whose predominant views are south in very small windows. But actually, if you refer back to the site diagram, the green area with the stair, we've actually held our building away from them. So we're not just like arrogantly covering their windows. They will still have light air and views through their windows. And we're keeping the face of our building about 12 feet away from them. And also in our historic district negotiations, our height is more or less about the same height as the Crest. So we're not going to be covering all the views from the top floors, which have more sudden views than others. But we have met with them, I've answered their questions. I certainly invited them to attend today, making sure that they understood that they should do so if they had concerns that they wanted to express. Thank you. So one of the things I wanted to ask, is there anyone else in the speaking favor? I didn't know that Dan said the team may be done. Just didn't know if there was anyone else on the call. Seeing none, is there anyone here to speak against this application or request for a variance? Chad, do you have a question? I do. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And then I applaud your work, your detail here. I'm troubled that there's a standard in the UDO that we can't easily articulate its purpose. But it's one that we have to live with. A couple of questions regarding the mechanical parking storage system, which I think is cool. It looks to me like this system is set up to accommodate eight cars on one level. And again, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know anything about these things, but it looks like there's supposed to be eight bays or locations for cars per level. And I think you said in part of your testimony you were talking about three levels. And is that accurate? And would it be possible for the mechanical garage system to be configured so that it's three bays abreast instead of four bays abreast? Yeah. Mr. Meadows, that's a great question. And I appreciate it. You're looking closely at those plans and we drew every one of those faces on there. So do you remember that game that we played when we were kids? It was the puzzle game that had the 16 tiles that you would move around. And there was always one empty slot that you would have to move one, two, and try and get them. That's the way this system actually works. So there's actually two empty bays. So eight times three is 24. So there's actually two empty slots because those are the slots that a car will slide over into to make room for another car and go back and forth. I haven't yet seen this in operation. I've seen the video, but I think we might be able to charge admission for people to watch how this thing works. One more follow up. Any height limits that you were working with? I understand probably another layer of mechanical garage might add cost, but was there anything that was impeding you from going to four levels instead of three? Scott, can you answer that? Yeah, Mr. Meadows, I would say it's a combination of cost. It's a combination of the constructability of the concrete podium level, the fact that we're next to an historic landmark structure and staying reasonably close to the height of that structure rather than exceeding it to max out. The zoning would allow us to do a 30-story tower on this site. That would be a little practically challenging, given how small it is. And also, high-rise provisions of the building code. So we're kind of at the maximum what we can do with this five stories of wood frame on top of one story of concrete without triggering pretty significant consequences and far as building code, fire access, safety, and yeah. And I also want to editorialize a bit. Like Dan, I've participated in at least three of the rewrites of the downtown UDO and zoning ordinances over the years in the 20 years that we've been down here doing design work with the studio. And the goal of that layer of 20 feet is just to make sure that people didn't put meaningless three-foot depth like storefront windows in order to technically make it that you don't see a garage, but creating spaces that people can't occupy and activate. And it's just good urbanism. It's creating good addresses that can handle businesses. I don't know why 20 was the magic number, because I do small, cute, creative projects all the time in downtown, and I can do a lot with 12 feet. I can put people in there. I can put small businesses in there. I like the smaller spaces because they're more reachable to smaller local businesses because they're more affordable. And so I feel like we absolutely meet the spirit of the UDO with our design. And I don't think anyone will really notice the difference. So that is just my opinion, but it is a professional opinion born out of two decades of work in the downtown Durham area. Thank you. All right. Any other questions? All right. Asked if there was anybody to speak against. There wasn't. This is we do not get a recommendation from staff on this one. Any deliberations or thoughts? Does anyone want to offer a motion? Does anyone want to chat about it more? I'm restless here. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. But as I understand it, the hardship is because of the limited parcel depth and the configuration to the adjacent alley. Is that how I'm putting that together? Anybody can speak on that. Mr. Retros, yeah, Daniel, that is correct. It's the very limited distance along the alley where we already have a requirement of a egress stair for the existing crest building, a 16-foot wide van accessible parking space, and the dynamics of this very compact, admittedly, mechanical parking system to almost reach that one parking space per unit that the market and the financing currently demands. And that leaves us with 12 feet rather than the 20. And those would be relatively small cars, wouldn't they? In that. People with suburbans will not be trying to park in there. Gotcha. Thank you, Dan. Chad, did you have something? I don't know if you spoke at the same time. Yeah, I think this is a great solution. I appreciate this applicant. I know they're diligent. There's a lot of thought and creativity there. I really appreciate that. If I was pressed, I don't know that I could get there with a rationale for the variance. So I'm troubled because I like the proposal. I like the outcome. Procedurally, I'm concerned about the rationale that we're providing, and that worries me. But I'm also a little worried that we've got a standard in the UDO that we can't readily justify. We've had testimony that 20 feet was there for a reason, but not necessarily the right reason, and that a smaller space would work. So it's worrisome that there's the standard that we have that we can't necessarily justify. That's not the applicant's fault. That's something for us to grapple with. So I don't know. I'm kind of torn, because like I said, I think that a lot of thought went into this. I think that the spirit and intent of the ordinance is met. I think that it's got a feature that would be beneficial to the community. This mechanical whiz-bang thing might be something that could work in other constrained sites, and it would be nice to have a model. And for those reasons, I think it's great. Does the hardship argument pass muster with me? I don't know. I don't know that I'm convinced yet. So I'm kind of at odds a little bit about it. I got a, Scott, do you have something for, are you going to address, not sure what you want? Yeah, may I speak to Mr. Meadows' concerns? Yeah. I would think about a suburban house lot. The classic example of what a board of adjustment looks at are dimensional restrictions, unique dimensional situations that the standard ordinance provisions don't anticipate. It's usually about something a squeeze. Something is not big enough for a setback that's required. Something's not big enough for the driveway and where the UDO says the ideal place to put it is. It's about the ordinance imagines that everyone's lot is 50 by 100, but some people's lots are 40. And so part of your job is the board of adjustment. I don't mean to be presumptuous here. I've never served on the board. So there's a lot of things that y'all look at besides this. But it's like, how do you allow someone to get as close as possible to a use of that property that can benefit them economically, benefit the city in terms of creating tax base and all those things, recognizing that this is no different. If the city would like us to meet the 100% of the dimensional requirements for the commercial space, we can do that. But we won't be able to provide parking in our building, which makes it economically infeasible. It is no different than saying, you can have the house you want, but I'm not going to let you park your car on it. And I think a resident that came to you and said, I think that's a hardship, that I'm not allowed to park my car on my single family lot when everyone else can. And so I hope that is a metaphor that helps at least explain our decision to bring this before you. And pitch the idea that we've put the priorities in the right mix and that we're getting as close as we can to sort of a perfect solution without abandoning any one item. Like we've gotten close on every point. We're not saying there's a standard here that should just be completely wiped out. I hope that's helpful. Yeah, it is for me. And I want to thank you for clarifying that. I look at this and at the end of the day, I always ask the purpose of a variance is, well, I guess there's always a purpose. But the question I always ask is, does this meet the spirit and intent of what the ordinance is wanting to do? On this, I think absolutely it does. And so that justifies for me, I'm not saying for anyone else. But my decision today, does anybody else want to offer any thoughts? Chairman Rogers, retulers here, I couldn't say it better. I concur with the same outcome. And I would support this budget. Micah, did you have something on? I was going to offer the motion. I did find this one. Go ahead if you'd like. OK, I hear by motion that the application number B210015, a request for variance from the required structure part for a design standard on property located at 130 South Mangum Street, has successfully met the applicable requirements of the unified development ordinance and is hereby granted subject to the following conditions. The improvement shall be substantially consistent with the plan and all information submitted to the board as a part of the application. We have a motion to approve Ms. Jeter for this variance. Is there a second? Yep, second. Second by N. Kip. Susan, would you like to call everyone? Mr. Rogers. Yes. Mr. Kip. Yes. Mr. Retzlis. Yes. Mr. Meadows. Yes. No. Ms. Jeter. Yes. Ms. Major. Yes. Ms. Boshane. Yes. Motion carries 6 to 1. Vote of 6 to 1, your variance has been approved. We appreciate you coming for the BOA. You'll get an order shortly. Good luck. Thank you so much, and you almost made it by noon. Thank you. I'm honest, that was my goal, but. Appreciate you all staying so late. Thank you for coming. All right, let's get this moving on a little more. Any old business? I don't see any on the agenda. Any news business? I've got an item that I'd like to mention. Krista, do you want to go first? Sure. Krista Cucco City, attorney's office. I just want to let you all know that we are going to be bringing forward some amendments to the rules of procedure for the board, just to align with changes to 160D. And just to make sure that what our rules say reflect our practices. Vice versa. And so the way that the rules of procedure account for amendment is that they have to be brought before you. And then the following meeting, they can be voted upon for approval or adoption. And so our plan is for staff to bring those to you next month for presentation, consideration, and then we would bring them in June for approval. Right. And it kind of tees up the thing I want to talk about. Last month, I sent an email after the meeting. I think I'm the only one. And I actually just thought about this before today's meeting. I think I'm the senior member now that Regina's no longer on the board, which is kind of crazy. I don't think I've been on here for any length of time. But I think it's been about four years since we've had a training that was provided by, I think it was David Owens at the School of Government. And I'm wondering, now that we're going to have some new rules or we're proposing some, if it's worth having another training half day, because this is how it used to be that afternoon. I think we had spent an afternoon or morning downstairs in the basement with the planning folks. And I think Jim Joyce, who is a former colleague and a friend of mine, is now taken over. I think he's in David Owens' job now, or at least he's over there at the School of Government. I don't know if it's worth bringing them in as well. I always thought it was incredibly informational, formative to have that. And I talked to Jessica a little bit about this before the meeting. I know that there's a cost associated with it, but I also feel like there's a lot of benefit. And I don't think anybody on the board, except me, has actually gone through that from the training since. When I first joined the board, which is about five years ago, we had something like annually, and I know it's been a couple of years since we've done something now. And I know we've got, I won't say any new members, but we've got some folks who may not have been through some of that. I don't know what everybody else's thoughts are. I'd like to hear. Chairman Rogers, is that, I took a 12 week class two on planning, are you referring to that one? No, this is more like a refresher on what the charge of a board of adjustment is. What's within the law? What's the intent of talking about quasi-judicial hearings and meetings and what we should be looking at, what various things. And Christa and Brian did a training a year ago, two years ago, that was very similar. But anyway, Jessica, you got something? Yes. So I can't speak for everyone else, but when I joined the board, I had a private training of that sort where everyone came in and both the city attorney and county attorney were there and members of the planning department were there. I assume that they did that for everyone when they joined. Natalie, did you get that? No, I didn't get that. Did you get that? I got that, yeah. I got that. I got that. I got that too. And I was given a book that I've read, and I got lots of other materials that I read. I thought you were suggesting, Jacob, like they're an updated training, like there was new stuff we needed to be trained on, not the... Absolutely. I knew that 160D is gonna be a big deal and it's gonna bring about some changes. So I think that that's, it's probably timely, but just for the sake of kind of getting everybody on the same page, we all know what we're doing. Procedurally, and the charge. I would support that. I also like to see what the amendments are gonna come up with. So it is good timing, chairman. I'm always up for new education. Yes, do anything new, informative, I'm up for that. I think it'd better equip us all. I mean, Chris and Brian, what do y'all think about this? Is it possible to get those school government votes or somebody involved or put together something in half a day? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, they routinely provide trainings and there's a cost to them, but I wouldn't really worry too much about the cost. The question is how effective it would be for the entire board. So it's probably better to pull the board and see where their comfort is, their comfort level in terms of what the content of the training would be. And I think they can also tailor their trainings if you have a higher level of understanding of what's going on in these quasi-judicial hearings and you wanna explore something a little bit more esoteric, they can do that as well. What I'd like to know is who did not get that initial? I remember, I know Natalie said she did not get that initial training. I think everybody else did. Mike, Terence? I think we missed Mike and Natalie. I didn't get it. Because of COVID. We're also gonna have another person appointed any day now, but anytime now I'm imagining. So I think it might be helpful for anyone who hasn't had that to have that. And then if you wanna have something more expansive, to do that as well. My experience with the School of Government Trainings, I don't know, maybe because I'm a lawyer, they, you know, sometimes. It is sometimes. I'm a lawyer. I mean, sometimes it is limited efficacy for me. But I think in observing the board, I think I'm going into like my ninth year and I ate a ninth year representing the board. And so I've seen the spectrum of how these things are run I think the best thing to do is to sort of have some standardization of how these cases are approached, as opposed to having someone from the School of Government come and give you a recitation on what the treatise of cross-eyed judicial hearings are. I think we just sort of need to standardize our processes on how we evaluate cases. That would be my suggestion. I know a lot of boys have standard forms that they use and so your vote comes down to a vote on each element. And so if a particular element doesn't get a majority of the votes, well then the permit's not issued. So that's one way that folks handle it. But that would be my suggestion. I'm not sure how much it would help to have someone come from the School of Government. Between Chris and I, we can probably answer all those questions that anyone would have that the School of Government would present on. I think what we would benefit most from is having some standardization of how we evaluate the cases so that we're sort of not treating people differently. Absolutely. So I think that's how we would benefit. Now the School of Government may be able to help with that. Right? Because I know they have some forms, they have blogs, they have information on how different jurisdictions handle it. And I think if there were any, I don't think there are many weaknesses, particularly now with COVID, I think with COVID, we're doing just a fabulous job in hearing these cases, right? But if there were any weakness, I would say it's sometimes we go a little bit astray on what the factors are and how to apply the evidence to those factors. So that would be my suggestion, but that's just me. Krista, what are your thoughts? I tend to agree with Brian that I think that it's probably more effective for us to kind of help train just because we have the most familiarity with sort of the cases, how you all tend to handle the cases, what the rules and procedures say, which is not to say that the School of Government could not get familiar with some of those aspects of how you all operate, but we've got a little bit more familiarity. So we can find out what a training might look like from the School of Government. I think going ahead and sort of getting Mike and Natalie on boarded and how we have typically done that in the past is also going to be beneficial for them. I saw that Chad dropped in the chat sort of walking through a case and we could use, we don't have to sort of invent something whole talk. We could get a case from five, six years ago, something, some set of facts where we can apply current UDO standards and kind of walk through that and sort of talk about questions that you might wanna ask, what would be an appropriate question? What would be an inappropriate question? How do we really get at? I think that that would be a really good idea to do. So we can also incorporate that. I'd like to go over what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. I think that I struggle with it. I'm sure everyone else does and has throughout their time on this because this is a little bit different, but what's a realistic timeframe that we could see in the 90 days? Jacob, I would suggest, if everybody would be amenable to it, like a half day retreat, plan sometime during the summer, you know, late spring, early summer, or even late summer, whatever. I think soon, my understanding is that in June, the state of emergency is going to be lifted. And so we can probably find some place where we can socially distance and everybody, most of the people will be vaccinated. I'm vaccinated, right? And so we'll be able to, you know, to have a good session and we can go through different scenarios and you can ask questions. You know, you can provide materials, maybe provide handouts that everybody could have. So it'd be more of a standardized process. That would be my suggestion, like just a half day retreat and we can go through and train on things and take questions and, you know, just try and get everybody on the same page. Yes, I don't think that same thing. I don't know if anybody... I'm all for it. Maybe make it a full day and the city and county can buy us lunch. Fine. And cold beverages. Yes. Fine. Yeah, I have no problems with any of that. So... All right. Well, you know, I think, you know, June sometime, the June timeframe would be a great, maybe July, whatever that needs to be. I think that would be a good time to do something like that. And also, given that we're going to have a new member, at least one new member, I think it's going to be even more timely. Three have been, what, nine, 11 members, whatever it is, haven't had any kind of training. Right. So, I think that's... All right, sounds like we've got that going and we'll see what happens. The next on the list is the Approval of Orders. Our first one, B21000010. I'm going to list the folks who can vote on this and make motions. It's Kip, Meadows, Retulis, Myself, and Tarrant. So, we're going to need a motion and a second for each one of these. And we are not going to, we won't here be to the second one, but let's go ahead and get a motion and a second for the first one. Excuse me, Chair Rogers. Did you say Mr. Rogers?  That's what I said. Ian Kip, Chad Meadows, Mike Retulis, me, and Mike Tarrant. Isn't that the correct, the right? Kip, Meadows, Rogers, Retulis, and Tarrant. Perfect, sorry. Yeah, so I need a motion from one of you, if you don't mind. Meadows, move approval. Meadows. Retulis, second. Retulis, second. Susan. Mr. Tarrant. Yes. Mr. Retulis. Yes. Mr. Rogers. Yes. Mr. Meadows. Yes. Mr. Kip. Yes. Motion carries five to zero. All right, our next one is B2100013. This was a unanimous case. I need a motion and a second from the folks who voted on that today. Motion from Retulis. Meadows, second. Meadows, second. Mr. Kip. Yes. Mr. Meadows. Yes. Mr. Rogers. Yes. Mr. Retulis. Yes. Ms. Jeter. Yes. Ms. Major. Yes. Ms. Boshane. Yes. Motion carries seven to zero. All right, our next one is B210014. Again, unanimous. Anybody who voted or was seated can make a motion. In second. In vote. Meadows, move approval. Kip, second. Ms. Boshane. Yes. Ms. Major. Yes. Ms. Jeter. Yes. Mr. Retulis. Yes. Mr. Rogers. Yes. Mr. Meadows. Yes. Mr. Kip. Yes. Motion carries seven to zero. All right, our final B210015. Meadows can't vote on this one. Motion by Retulis. In a second. Mr. Kip, I vote Shane. In second. Mr. Meadows. No. Can't vote. Only the other six. Mr. Kip. Yes. Mr. Rogers. Yes. Mr. Retulis. Yes. Ms. Jeter. Yes. Ms. Major. Yes. Ms. Boshane. Yes. Motion carries six to zero. All right, that concludes our meeting today. Our next meeting will be Tuesday, May 25th at 8.30 a.m. I will see you all then. Hope you have a good day.


Freestyle Friday morning to you. You are watching Why in the Morning and as you have heard it is Freestyle Friday only on Y to 5 4 channel. If you do want to participate in the conversation make sure you do find us on all our social media platforms at Y to 5 4 channel. The hashtag is Why in the Morning, hashtag Freestyle Friday, Pali Twitter and on YouTube you can find us at Y to 5 4 channel. On Instagram you can find us at Y to 5 4 underscore channel. And just in case you miss any of the valuable insight make sure you do catch up with us because in studio today we have royalty. In the spirit of the photography edition we have royalty in studio. We have a lady who has won numerous awards and has done quite a number of works here in Africa. I have Georgina Goodwin who is a documentary photographer that's what you'd like to call it. Her work has been featured by CNN and here in Kenya in case you don't know she has covered quite a number of events. The Westgate attack, can you remember the Westgate terror attack? She won an award for the best Kenya news photographer that was in the year 2014. My name is Hilda Wadidhi and if you're interested in photography even film and making documentaries you are watching the right show so make sure you do talk to Georgina. Georgina say good morning to the people. Good morning everybody this is Georgina nice to meet you. You're most welcome to Y24 for the very first time somebody as accomplished as you are. DJ Khalifa would you like to say good morning to Georgina? Good morning. Nice to meet you too. Yes, thanks. All right amazing and I hope you did catch that interview with one Barry Moses and Tatiana Karanja. Today we're celebrating even the ladies who are doing this photography. So Georgina you're very passionate about social issues and women and the environment. Why? Why did you even stumble upon this line of work? I feel that it's very important to use the medium of photography which is something that I stumbled into to be able to tell the stories that are not being told so much. It's not really by choice that I do it. There's something inside me that just makes me want to have to do this. I need more meaning for the creation of my images. It can't just be a pretty picture. It has to have depth and it has to have a reason for it to exist. And in that I try and help people understand issues that maybe they haven't come across before or they don't know very much about. Okay, so is this just a passion or did you have to go under some training in order to be as good as you are? It's definitely a passion. A lot of times it's not an assignment. It's not work. It's actually something that I would be doing anyway because I love what I do. I've never had any formal training except for one week when I had a workshop training with Magnum and National Geographic photographer David Allen Harvey. And I learned a lot in that week. But what seems to happen for me through my work and the experiences that I put myself through, every couple of years I have a breakthrough in my style and who I am. It either naturally happens or I have to work very hard to reinvent myself. So I work hard on myself to progress. Okay, so how do you handle all the recognition? You're quite recognized. You are among the first speakers to talk at a TEDx talk in a refugee camp. Interesting. So how do you handle the recognition? How do you feel about it? What does it do for you? It's very sweet that you say I'm very recognized. Actually I don't feel very recognized at all. As a photographer, a documentary photographer, I know many, many other documentary photographers work very much alone. And because I work alone, I certainly don't feel that I'm out there a lot being recognized. But I work very hard on my Instagram to make sure that my stories are purposeful and that I am out there as much as I can be. But as far as the TEDx talk in Kakuma, I work very much with the UNHCR, UN Refugees Agency, on and off now for about a year and a half. And I'm very, very passionate about the work that I do with them. And in October and November 2017, I went to Nyarugusu and Nduta refugee camps in Tanzania. And for me, it hit me, it hit me really, really hard that these people are just not being, their stories are not being told and the world just does not even know what's happening there. So for me, I put myself forward for the talk and I said, I really want to show my work. I want to be part of this conversation. And so, yes, it was, I haven't used my brain like that since leaving university. It was, it was fried afterwards, trying to memorize and putting the nerves to rest. But it was an incredible movement and I'm very proud that I was able to be part of that. Okay, well, let me talk about some of the work that you've done. Some of the work that you've done, you said you do it alone actually. Yeah, I work alone. How do you incur the risk? Post-election violence, you are there. The rest guitar attack, you are there. How do you take care of your own security when you're taking these risks? You have to be very careful actually. Firstly, there's some cardinal rules as a photojournalist when you're on the ground. People must know where you are. You've got to connect with other photographers, other writers, other media people, your loved ones. Let them know exactly where you are at all times so that you can be, you know, they can keep an eye on you. Yeah, you've just got, you've got to tune into the surroundings, what's going on and only be in the position where you know that you can be safe. I actually started to try and go into the Westgate building and a shot fired past me and I thought, you know what, I don't have any protective kit here so I need to back out of this. And I did, I backed out. Yeah, and I'm still here. Thankfully. Wow, okay. So can we understand, have you ever had an experience where you nearly lost your life, you know, or something except from that one that you've just talked about a bullet just passing through.  I need to take care of myself. You know what, no. And that experience with Westgate when I nearly went in and I chose to back out was a big lesson for me. There was, I came to the edge of who I am and I thought, actually, the words were told to me once, no image is worth your life. And that came into my mind and I thought, I'm very, very pleased that I'm somebody that's not going to go into this building and risk my life. I know where my edges are. So I'm very careful. And even when I was photographing post-election violence in 2017, 2018, there were times when I didn't know the direction of the anger, the direction of the movement, the direction of the bullets. And that's the time where I stopped, I put my camera down and I had my back to the edge of safety so I could face in. And I remember stopping, filming the petrol station being blown up because there was too many people moving, too many things happening and I had to actually stop and watch it instead of photographing it because I wasn't safe and I had to go to the edge and look back. Okay. I'm glad that you said that. At home, don't just go putting themselves at risk. But all right, let's talk about some of the good things, the things we can celebrate. I can see some of your pictures here and I can see a lioness over there. How did you come that close to take that picture? I can see the risky pictures everywhere. Tell me about that one. It's actually, this is one of the first photos that I took that has been recognized. It was in 19, sorry, yeah, was it 19, no, 2005. I entered that cheetah image and that first lion image that you saw into Kodak were partnering with, with, gosh, was it Village Market or it was with the local magazine Travel News. And I entered both the competitions and I won both of them with those two images and that was the start of my career as a photographer. I thought this is something that I have, a talent, I should work for it. But that image, I was actually in a vehicle and the lioness was very close and in the Masai Mara, they're so used to vehicles, you can actually get quite close. And I had my zoom lens and just at that moment, she was in a tussle with her little friend and she looked up and I took the picture. And I love that picture actually. I'm not a wildlife photographer anymore but I do, I love that image, yeah. Okay, interesting. So let's talk about your shots. What do you call, what do you classify as a good shot? When you take a shot, what are some of the qualities you look at and you're like, okay, now this is a good picture. This is what I strive for every single time I have my camera against my face and I have my finger on the button. That iconic image that is a standalone image that can tell everything in one shot. And it's what I strive for every time. So what do I look for? I look for light, I look for shadow and I look for magic. I look for that moment that's in between the moments. The moment that is quiet and beautiful and full of magic. And sometimes you have to be patient. You have to wait for that magic to unfold in front of the camera. And sometimes it doesn't come and or you're in a hurry or I'm on someone else's agenda. So it's difficult. I can see you somewhere over here with Nelson Mandela. The iconic Nelson and Winnie Mandela. Wow. Tell us about this. Well actually Yvonne Chakachaka is in that frame as well with her husband, Tiny. I met Yvonne on an assignment working in malaria and she's the rollback malaria ambassador for rollback malaria. So on a lot of assignments in the early days of my career, I spent a lot of time with Yvonne and we became very good friends. She's the most incredible, beautiful woman. Yvonne Chakachaka herself. I was having dinner with them in Johannesburg and Tiny, Dr. Tiny Mhinga is her husband and he's a board of directors for the Mandela Trust and he said we're opening this hospital for Mandela with Mandela in July in a couple of months time.  So of course, I paid my way but I got to meet Mandela and I will never ever forget it. Wow. I actually cried. You cried? He's the most incredible man. Okay, interesting. Out of all the awards that you've won, because there are quite a number, which one do you feel is the best one, the one that moved you the most out of all the awards? Well, I still don't feel like I've made it in terms of awards. There's still a lot of awards that are out there that are very coveted by many photographers, especially in the international arena like World Press, Sony World Photography Awards. And yes, so I'm still in the running for those, trying to work for those, but really the Kenyan Youth Photographer of the Year for the Westgate. Firstly, as a Kenyan, I know many people don't believe or understand or know that I'm actually Kenyan. I don't have another passport. So I was born here. My history of my country and my family are tied together. So I'm very proud. I'm very proud to be Kenyan and being able to even enter the award, you have to be Kenyan and then to win the news photographer of the year with the Westgate.  And so for me, that was a beautiful award to win and I'm very sorry that it had to happen, but I'm glad I was there to document it. Well, congratulations on winning it anyway. Thank you very much. I can see that you're also a writer here. You've written for different publications before.  When did you begin to write, aside from taking photos? Well, I actually write a little bit. It's not my primary income or my primary job. I don't offer myself as a writer. These I actually have been working with writers. So I prefer to do it that way. I'm much more comfortable in the field of photography. So I work with writers and we put together articles. Or I'm assigned by companies and agencies and I go out and I photograph and they will either send a writer at the same time or afterwards and we put that together as pieces. And these are publications of my work since the beginning. I can see the spoils of Mont Kilimanjaro. That sounds very interesting. I'd like to check that one out a bit later. So wait if I follow family, if you're interested, make sure you do follow Jajina Goodwin on YouTube and on Instagram as well, yes. However, now it's Freestyle Friday and we wanted to have some fun with you here. We have some very interesting questions lined up by one masaikita and we want to talk about your reaction to some of these things because apparently these are statements that you should never tell a photographer. So we'll go through them and then you'll tell us whether anyone has ever said this to you and how you felt about it. So if we can have it on the screen, that would be really nice. Yes. The first one, the very first question, that things not to tell a photographer. I would like to understand from you. In the meantime, while they are looking for it, I think it's about to come on the screen just now. In hindsight, all through the years that you've been at this, what are some of the biggest lessons you can say you've learnt as a photographer? Just before we delve, I can see the first question. The first statement has already come up. But what can you say are some of the biggest lessons that you have collected over the years and throughout all the different locations and countries that you've got? For a young photographer at home who's probably like, wow, I'd like to go try this. What are some of the lessons you've learnt, aside from safety? Aside from safety, actually that's one of the critical ones. So we've discussed that one. One of the most important things that I feel has been important in helping me become successful and earn a living as a photographer is to be very professional and very consistent with who I am and my output and the quality of images and the product that I give to clients. Being able to do a very fast turnaround, high images and just being a no-fuss consultant is actually very important. No-fuss consultant. Yeah, you just get the job done and be very professional about it. That's it, and consistent. All right, all right. Get the job done, be consistent and be a no-fuss. No-fuss, no-fuss. All right, so this is some of the questions that were compiled for what not to say to a photographer. Okay, your reflex takes amazing pictures. I'd like to hear your reaction. Has someone ever said this to you? I have never, ever had anybody say that to me. That sounds like the most amazing pickup line. No one's ever said that to me. All right, so for you it sounds like a pickup line. Okay. Oh, I can see what you're doing to react to the second one. Okay, so you're going to adjust me with Photoshop later, right? I photographed quite a few weddings and a lot of the women, the brides, have said this to me. They said, make me look better. And I'm like, and of course you must reply, no, no, you don't need it, you don't need it. Well, it's actually nice. As a documentary photographer, I don't tidy up or mess with any of the images. I shoot what I take. That's one of the criteria of hiring me as a wedding photographer. Then it's a commercial package, but it's a documentary style. So you want to capture the moment. You don't want stories about people telling you to tidy it up and make it look nice. I'll set up some shots if it's for the wedding and things, but no touch ups, no getting rid of lines and bags. It's what it is. And pimples, if it's bad, I might, but yes. If it's that bad, she might. So there's this one. Why is the background so blurred? I've had various versions of that one. People saying, how do you get the images so blurred so you have that nice professional look? And then it's necessary then to explain a little bit about the way the camera works and how you create that style. My father is quite particular. He's an old fashioned photography. If there's a beautiful image that's done, it's called motion blur, you do it on purpose. And he goes, no, no, blurred, blurred. So he wants everything sharp. Okay. So it helps you even focus on what you're actually seeing when you blur the background. Yeah, it's a way, it's a style of shooting that we all use as photographers. Okay. So now there's this other one. Come on. It's just a couple of shots. Yes. I've done this many, many times. Again, weddings, I did a wedding last year at a very prestigious resort in the Masai Mara and they strictly, we were supposed to be only shooting for six hours and these people went on until midnight and this was what they were saying. No, no, a couple more, a couple more shots. Like it's easy. Yeah, like it's easy. Like they're paying me for it. All right. Okay.  Oh, big no, no. Oh my goodness. I like that you've just gone like, no, no, no. This one happens a lot to photographers when they're first starting out and I, well I'm saying that because I experienced it a lot in the first seven years of my 12 year career and still maybe people are still trying to pull this one on me. This is a big no, no. They want to pay you with exposure. Yes, yes. All right, all right. So there's one more. Turn everything black and white except for one detail. Yeah. This for me is very nice as an amateur photographer. If you're serious about your work, unless this is very, very, very structured and you really are doing this because it's the style that you do and you're known for it, I would really try and stay clear of this. It means you're just playing around. You don't really know what you're doing. Okay. All right. People are playing games. Goodness. All right. But I wouldn't, it's not a serious bit of photography. That. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So make me look good. Got it? Oh. Okay. Yeah. I guess there's only so much you can do as a photographer, but mostly people, they either really look great in front of the frame or you have to work hard as a photographer and that is my job. It is my job to make people look good. So it would be mostly up to me if I put a frame out that wasn't good. That would be my fault. Well, what do you have for those people who believe they are not photogenic? Then they, to relax, relax, because everybody has something you really, really do. And even some, I remember in my early days, there was a young Kenyan model and she came in front of the camera and I thought, oh goodness, I might struggle with this girl because she had gappy teeth and, but my goodness, she came in front of the frame. I was like, wow, wow. Something just zinged. She looked amazing. So it got me humbled very early on to say don't judge before someone comes in front of the frame because it can swap the other way as well. Somebody can be very beautiful and then they come in the frame and you have to really work hard. They're blinking a lot or something like that. So I learned very early on to not judge until you work hard as a photographer to make sure that they look good either way. I used to be one of those people. I look better in person. I think I do as well. Look better in person, please. Okay, so there's one nice picture. Can you take another that's same as this? Interesting. Yes, I would take this one on. I would take this seriously. I would do my best. Yes, I've never been asked it to be honest, but I would do my best. It's a reasonable request. It's a reasonable request. I think so. Yeah. Oh God, I've just seen one that looks very notorious with the ladies. Can you make me thinner? Well, the answer, yes, that there's Photoshop. But as an ethical photojournalist and documentary photographer, no. Okay, so any ethics? You guys, these are ethics issues. Yeah, it's an ethical thing. And people should stop trying. I can't fish other people. Just be yourself, okay? Yeah. And then with that camera, I can take good pictures too. I think I've had this. I think someone said this to me. If somebody comes up and says this to a photographer, my suggestion and my response would be to just let them think that that's going to be the case. Because somebody who thinks that they can do that obviously is not prepared to listen to or thinks they know. So it's okay. They can continue to think that. All right. This is very notorious. That one is particularly notorious with the newsroom editors. All right. By the way, speaking of the newsroom, have you ever watched the newsroom? I'm seeing a lot of CNN, BBC, up in your profile. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Very nice. What's the difference between working in the newsroom and doing your own productions? Actually, you're a lot more relaxed in the newsroom. Everybody knows what they're doing. What? I expected the opposite. Well, yeah. But they know what they're doing. They're very organized. And you come in. There's a time. You start. You wait. A bit like with us. I mean, it's very similar to what we're doing now. Yeah, it's good. It's a nice place. But it's very structured. It's very structured. So there's no real freedom to, only within that minute or 30 seconds that you're given to speak is the freedom. Outside of that, you're very pinned into what you need, what's being said. Oh, okay. So now there's one more. Okay, there's one. Your work is easy.  Wow. Oh, I'm even offended on your behalf. But anyway, okay. You know, at the end of the day, if you're the one that presses the button, that is your frame. That's your shot. So even if all the studio assistants set the shot up, the photographer then comes in and presses the button. So yes, to some degree, this is true. But I was just discussing it with my husband the other day. Photography is everything except pressing the button. It's connecting with the person that you need to photograph. It's getting them to be relaxed. It's having their knowledge and understanding of how to be safe. It's actually getting access to the story. The pressing the button is the very, very last 2%.  So it's 2%. All of you think it's just pressing the button. It's just 2%. Okay. That has been clarified. All right. So there's one more. Such the same if taken with an iPhone. Would it be the same if taken with an iPhone?  Actually, no. No one's asked this of me. Some very, I mean, as a Canon ambassador, you know, I work very, very much with my camera bodies. And that's definitely my staple way of bringing the images into my studio, to my workplace. But very occasionally, I would say the iPhone actually can do a better job with the low angles when you can put that tiny little lens right next to a puddle. Oh. There's some very creative stuff that you can do with a phone that is not really replicable in a big camera. So it does have some weight. It has a place. Yeah. Street photography is good. You don't have this big thing in the way. Uh-huh. But I know Canon do have a very nice little M100, little pocket camera that you can have. Yeah. So interesting. People should not take these phones for granted. They can also achieve some shots. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've shot, I've actually taught at the Al-Ghakan University Foundation, a photojournalist course, by using your iPhone. Oh. Yeah. So people can be in the streets, do street photography, and the whole course was just using your iPhone. So is the iPhone the best, or I feel like asking because I don't have an iPhone. Yes. I have a very different phone, which is equally good. Actually, I did my own testing, and no, iPhone is not the best. Samsung. Galaxy is amazing. Samsung Galaxy. Yeah. And I'm sure there's more out there. My test was over a year ago, and I've not reviewed it. Uh-huh.  Oh. But yeah, I think Samsung Galaxy is the best. They've done amazing. Good cameras. All right. Okay. Okay. iPhone. All right. Please. Now, people, please don't show up too much on Instagram. Thank you. Some of us have the Google Pixel 3. So we are waving our head. Thanks. Anyway, so for the final one, the final one on what not to say to our photographer, can I print it from Facebook? Have you ever had this question? I've never had this. Uh-huh. Can I print it from Facebook? Uh-huh. What would be my answer? Uh, but I think, yeah, because I don't know the answer, I would say, yeah, probably. Go and try. Probably. It depends on the size and the quality of the image that the person's actually uploaded to Facebook. Sometimes, I mean, you can upload to a 5 meg file or 4 meg file. In that case, yeah, you could probably print it from Facebook. All right. Interesting. So now that we're done with what not to say to our photographer, can I ask you about, do you have any upcoming projects that you have, that you're looking to work on this year, 2019, whether it has to do with women or the environmental climate? We're seeing the climate changing a lot. Is there anything we can look forward to, if we follow up with you, any documentary that could be coming up, that we could be, can we even feature in some of them? Sorry, some of us have to ask for us. Thank you. All right, Georgina, let us know. Sure. Well, this year, I'll continue to work with UNHCR, the refugee agency. Actually, next month, I'm going to Tanzania and Ethiopia with them on the mission with the High Commissioner. So there'll be some work coming out of that. That's the serious stuff. On a much more personal note, I'm very good friends with the chaplain of Kenyatta Hospital. She's a very beautiful lady, and she works tirelessly every single day. Even on Christmas Eve, she didn't go home till 10 o'clock.  I want to be with her and be with her in Kenyatta Hospital and find out what it takes for this incredible human being to help the people that she helps. So that's actually one of the personal stories that I'm doing at the moment. All right. We look forward to seeing some of your work. And thank you so much for coming to Y254. But before you leave, it's freestyle Friday. We like to have a lot of fun on Friday. And currently in Kenya, we're having a revolution of some sorts when it comes to Kenyan music. And I'd like to understand from you, do you have any favourites when it comes to Kenyan music? Do you have any artists that you like, a lot that you respect, any music that you love from here, from our very own? Please let us know, you know? Well, of course, Saudi Soul. Saudi Soul. Wow. I got to hang out with them, actually, in Korogochu, in the slums there. They're just the most beautiful people. I mean, they're beautiful to look at and they're beautiful. And the way they sing is like honey and milk. Oh, honey and milk. Honey and milk. They're definitely my favourite. And you know, they're so humble. They even said to me, they said to me, thank you. And are we really that good? And I'm like, oh my God. You guys, yeah. You're just, yeah, you're amazing. So yeah, Saudi Soul. And Erick Wainaina. Erick Wainaina. Oh my goodness. Yes, one to one. What an amazing man. He's also incredible. He's a very gentle person. Yeah, he's actually a friend. He's lovely. So which song of Erick Wainaina and Saudi Soul do you like the most? You know, my brain is fried right now. I'm not going to be able to pull that information out. Me, the Erick Wainaina songs, the ones I know, and he's singing in Kikuyu. Re ye re ke hor wani an. Eh, okay. Manangue te re re. Okay, Erick Wainaina. Today you have been given a shout out by Jajina Goodway. And thank you so much for coming through to the studio today. God bless you. I wish you the best of luck with your photography. I hope you do come back. Please follow Jajina if you're interested in photography. Make sure you catch up with her.  Let us know what she looks for when she's taking her shots. So if you've missed class, please follow us on YouTube. I tried to find four channels. In case you missed, in case you've just touched that dial right now and you're like, goodness, have missed it, please. Don't worry. You can catch us on YouTube. And at two o'clock, we will repeat this segment. So in case you did miss Tatiana or you've missed Jajina, please don't, don't lose hope. Don't lose hope. You can always find us online and on social media. Please don't go anywhere. DJ Khalifa is about to mix it up. Please. Please. Oh, okay. He's already, he's already cute. So look here, sir. It's fine. Okay, sir. It's all welcome through. My name is Hilda Wadidi. Don't go anywhere. Join me. Chacha is coming up with our next photographers of the day. I think he's going to love it.


warning. This video will contain spoilers up to chapter 1028. You've been warned! Hello my Nakamotachi, this is Joygirl, here to discuss with you the big question which was revived as a result of the latest chapter. Chapter 1028 was such a good chapter. It's one of those that got you really excited for some potential upcoming events in the story. There's a huge intrigue with Sanji emotionally dealing with his newly acquired powers, but this discussion itself will center around another potentially huge subplot that was set up in this chapter, which is the impending arrival of the marines in the land of Wano to annex the country under the world government's orders, subject to condition. And this should come as to no surprise really because the possibility of the world government arriving at Wano has come up multiple times, and I discussed it myself, particularly due to the comments made by the director of the anime, Nagamine, who teased the possibility of a big enemy at Wano following Kaido. But whilst these discussions all remain speculations and possibly the result of a mistranslation, the recent chapter marked an appearance by Rob Luchi who is still firm on his agenda to capture Niko Robin, which he has had some success in in the past, only for it to be ruined by some robber boy and his friends. And with the condition being Kaido's defeat, which I do believe is extremely likely, and even almost a certainty, then it becomes all the more likely that the world government will indeed make a move on Wano. In that video about the director's comments, I did raise some doubts about the marines showing up, due to the comment that was made in the series about them not having enough manpower, but also that if the story develops so that their available resources are sufficient, then we may see it after all. And now, as the marines' involvement is contingent on Kaido's defeat, it seems that they are confident that their current forces are enough. Now from what we saw, Luchi doesn't seem to be aboard any of these ships, as the background interior during his scene seemed to be the inside of a very fancily designed room which could perhaps be Marijua. But obviously, a marine fleet will still need to be led by a high-ranking officer, especially if we consider the fact that Wano has a huge number of big-name pirates and whether Kaido loses or not, it would be in the world government's best interest to bring along a high-ranking commanding officer who is a formidable fighter in their own right. But who this is aboard the ships is a very exciting mystery which has fans talking and is indeed the subject of this video. And one of the potential candidates is Admiral Ryokugu, or Green Bull, an idea that has been highly popular due to all the theories linking Wano to the Marine Admiral, which only increased after the reveal of Shimotsuki Ushimaru, who some now think may be the Admiral himself. Amongst other things, the premise of this theory is based on the connection between Green Bull Fasting and the Wano Samurai's whose dignity ignores hunger, and the fact that the name Ushimaru contains the name Ox in Japanese, with the anime even coloring the Ox symbol on his clothing green, like Green Bull. And whilst I do have reservations about Green Bull being Ushimaru, Green Bull's connection to Wano isn't an entirely meritless idea. After all, Green Bull was kind of introduced to us just prior to the start of the Wano arc. I say kind of because Oda did his usual silhouette mystery character thingy, so that teaser we got before Wano could have its payoff at the end of the arc. And Fujitora is another potential candidate for making an appearance at Wano. For a while, many in the fandom have been speculating that these two new admirals share a history prior to joining the Marines. And they were in fact seen acting familiar towards one another, with Green Bull going against Akainu's orders, and both men were last heard of facing against the Revolutionary Army. Fujitora too has long been linked to Wano largely due to his choice of attire, and considering the possible history between these two, both admirals appearing at Wano has also been speculated. And if they do indeed arrive together at Wano, then it could be the result of a direct order from the world government, but considering the possibility that they do in fact have a personal link to Wano, then the excitement would be heightened even further. It would be great to see both men have more of their own personal reasons for giving Wano the treatment they think it deserves, based on their personal agenda. Fujitora, whom we know to hold a certain distaste of the world government, and going on the assumption that Green Bull is morally geared towards someone he gets along with, then both men, knowing the dark side of a country under world government control, could show up at Wano and protect their country from coming under the control of such a force. Plus, seeing Fujitora drop a meteor shower on the Zoans using his devil fruit is a really cool image I could imagine. We know Oda likes to draw on real life events and history, so Fujitora's meteor shower to wipe out the Zoans would be a really great play on the idea of the asteroid, which led to the extinction of dinosaurs. Personally, if I could pick a marine's affiliated character I would like to show up at Wano, then I would choose Vega Punk. Now, the idea of Vega Punk showing up at Wano is an idea I've discussed at multiple points in the past. Don't get me wrong, the idea of Fujitora and Green Bull coming to Wano is a very exciting one, but also a very foreboding thought. Because even if both are after what's good for Wano, they are still marine officers who may clash with other pirates, so perhaps at best, driving the pirates off immediately out of the island, and at worst, resulting in more combat, which may be fun from an action standpoint, but not the nice resolution I'd like to see at the end of this long and heavily laden arc. Whereas in Vega Punk's case, as opposed to the other admirals, there's a greater chance of a happy ending, in that Vega Punk may be able to reverse the effect of the Smile Devil fruits, which was created by his former colleague Caesar Clown. And aside from this, I can see quite a number of potential reasons to support Vega Punk showing up at Wano. There are a number of significant connections between the Wano arc to Vega Punk's character. On top of the Smile Devil fruits, there's the artificial Devil fruit which Vega Punk created himself based on Kaido's lineage factor, which is currently being demonstrated to be quite the surprising success by Momonosuke, contrary to Vega Punk determining it a failure. The numbers in Kaido's crew have also been said to have been created at Punk Hazard, and whilst that doesn't confirm Vega Punk's involvement, it does make it likely. Given that we know Vega Punk did throw his hand in gigantification experiments in the past, and then more recently, Queen also revealed his connection to the scientists, all of them forming the genie's group Mads, along with others including Vinsmoke Judge. So there are already a lot of links to the character, which sets us up for some potentially very interesting developments and interactions if Vega Punk does indeed arrive. Also, if the reason why the Marines can afford to go to Wano is because of the power brought by the new SSG unit, and it is indeed this unit that is moving on Wano, then it makes sense for Vega Punk to come along to oversee his new experiment. But another figure, or figures, we could suppose may appear at Wano is none other than Luchi himself, and the other CP Zero members like Kaku and Stussy, whom we saw to be accompanying Luchi in the last chapter. I know I said at the beginning of the video that it doesn't appear that Luchi is inside a ship, and whilst I do stand by that observation, this shouldn't completely remove him from this discussion. Maybe Luchi had a taste for the finer things in life, and has had a special window room specially designed for him. I know I'm half joking, but Luchi coming to Wano could be a nice way for some storylines to come full circle. For one, I'd love to see the first truly threatening Zoans to make a reappearance in an arc that has such a heavy focus on the strength of Zoans. It would also be interesting to see how he fairs up against some of our current antagonists. And I may be in the minority here, but I think it could be cool to see the strength development of some characters who aren't our protagonists. There's also the fact that Luchi did once say that he would chase Robin to the ends of the earth to capture her, and so it's only fitting that he makes a personal appearance at Wano to make good on this promise. One thing's for certain, Robin is in danger, and any marine presence at Wano is sure to lead to some very interesting plot developments and possibly even some exciting combat. And whilst many of us believe that it will be the straw hat to come to Robin's aid, with Robin herself commenting that she's not worried about powerful figures out to kidnap her as she has very powerful friends who will protect her, maybe those friends aren't only limited to the straw hats. But this is the topic for our next discussion, so for this video, please leave a comment below on your thoughts and whether there are any other world government figures whom I've missed, but you believe could be showing up at Wano, and don't forget to like and share the video. Please do subscribe if you'd like to hear my thoughts on who will be fighting the world government if or when they show up, as well as other one piece discussions. Also join our Joyfleet Discord server if you want more one piece related fun with other like-minded fans, and also remember that becoming a Patreon member will give you special roles and powers within that server. Thank you to our Patrons who help support the channel, this is Joygirl, and I'll see you again soon.


Good morning and welcome to the Eric Reddick show of Vermont Daily production. I'm your host Eric Reddick. This is a new video venture I'm doing in partnership with the online newspaper Vermont Daily which you can find at vermontdailychronical.com. We'll be covering the news out of Montpelier and around the state and why it matters to you. First up, January 4th, 2021 was the third meeting of the Vermont Climate Council and already there are concerns about conflict of interest and imbued white supremacy. The 23-member council was created in 2020 as part of the Global Warming Solutions Act, its task to create a plan for implementing the mandated reductions in carbon emissions. 26% by 2025, 40% by 2030, and 80% by 2050. Guy Page, Vermont Daily editor and Statehouse correspondent, joins us to discuss yet another bill to address the conflicts of interest. Guy, thank you for coming on the show. Shouldn't these concerns have been addressed before the members were appointed? Well, no time like the present, I suppose, Erica. Now this bill, it doesn't name names of course, but some of the current appointees do run companies and organizations that could benefit financially from changes made by the council to meet Vermont's rather stringent carbon emissions reduction mandates. For example, council member Adam Knudsen is the CEO of Dynapower, a south browns and battery storage company. Battery storage is seen as one way to store carbon-free solar and wind power to be available when consumers need it, on demand power. If Vermont ever goes big into battery storage, companies like Dynapower could benefit. Also, council member Brian Gray manages Energy Co-op of Vermont, which is a fuel oil company that is also committed to helping Vermonters transition to renewable power. If, for example, Vermonters are required to burn wood pellets instead of heating oil or natural gas or propane, companies like his are well positioned in the market. Now this is not to say that they have any ulterior motives, but it's the appearance of a conflict of interest. Thank you, Guy. Now this is not the first time we've dealt with conflicts of interest in the renewable energy sector in Vermont. Can you tell us about some other experiences that we've already run into here in the state? Sure. A little over 10 years ago, the Vermont Clean Energy Development Fund, which dispensed often very large loans for renewable power development, approved a $4.3 million loan to a company operated by David Blittersdorf, who was, at the time, was sitting on the board of the Clean Energy Development Fund. So, some people flagged that as a conflict of interest. Governor Peter Schumann agreed, and he asked Mr. Blittersdorf to step down from the committee, which he did. So I'm curious why if previous conflicts of interest were addressed by the governor asking people to step down, I find it interesting that they're proposing a bill to address it this time. Do you know, does this new bill addressing the conflicts of interest on the climate council, does it also affect conflicts of interest in other councils or committees that are appointed by the state? No, this is targeted solely at the Vermont Climate Council, says so, right in the name of the bill. And because everything in Vermont has to be viewed through the lens of racism, the charge of white supremacy against the climate council should be no surprise. Susanna Davis, the state of Vermont's executive director of racial equity, believes the mandated deadlines may be too short to properly consider the implications for non-white Vermonters. Change the deadline. And I know what you're thinking, oh, this might require a long legislative process or hey, but we set a date and this is what we wanted. And here's the thing, though, if we're really wanting to do something right and do it equitably, then we don't have to remain beholden to a time frame that we ourselves made up and that we ourselves can change. So I do urge you to consider if slowing down the process to perfect it will lead to equitable policy, then do that because that's more important, I think, than the time that we set for ourselves. That's the most polite way that I can put it because other folks will phrase it as follows. Other folks will phrase it as deadlines are a tool of white supremacy. I don't usually refer to deadlines as tools of white supremacy, but deadlines often do reinforce a white supremacy culture that prizes itself more on process than equitable outcome. By law, the council must consider the racial equity implications of its carbon reduction strategies.  In other news, lawmaker Kurt McCormick of Burlington, a man who actually walks the climate change walk, urged for Monters to take a World War II approach to fighting climate change. He suggested that like Americans who went without during World War II in order to save the world from fascism, we too should sacrifice to save the world from climate change. Last year, legislators heard testimony that humanity has only a few years to act, lest we contribute to the alleged looming global warming disaster. Notice the contrast in Miss Davis's take it slow and do it right approach versus the climate caucuses all out war on emissions. So which is more important to the Vermont state legislature, climate change or systemic racism? Will this conversation be enough to get the council to consider the second and third order effects of its decisions? One thing is for sure, dramatic, even drastic changes to required by GWSA mandates will affect everyone's quality of life, for better or for worse. In upcoming episodes, we'll keep you posted on how or if the legislature and the climate council have addressed these concerns and explore what other legislation will affect you and your family. See you next week.


Hi everyone, I'm Joe for jaspyscasebreaks.com coming at you with today's brand and you released 2020 tops archive suiture's baseball Retired player edition This is break number three random player break number three half a case from a fresh case the second half Already sold out so it'll be coming up in a separate video right after this big Thanks all of these folks right here for getting into the break which I have not written in my spreadsheet Wednesday seven eight 2010 box retired edition RP random player three 2020 tops Signature singular series baseball All right One spot gets seven players. So let's times this by seven. There's one already two three four five six seven It should be 105 items on each list. Let's roll it randomize it one and a three four times one two three four After four we've got Jake Jake Jake Jake down to Dennis all right four times Team players two and four After four times there's four right there. We've got Hideki Matsui And Captain America Steve Rogers All right, so I'm just gonna show you the list as is and then I will alphabetize by your first names But I just want to get this on wax right here. So if you are replaying the video you can Pause the video if you want to Keep track of it. If you'd like there you go. There's everybody Let's alphabetize by column a So there you go, Daniel, you've got a lot of players right here that block of players and That group of players right there. Nice. Thank you. Good luck Dennis Jake Jimmy has a lot of players too and leading up to Jeremy Joel John and Philip there you go now you can think about trade there hasn't been any and not even a whisper of a trade offer in The end of these breaks, but I'll flip back to that screen in just a second, but let's pop open this case and let's see which See which half are gonna do all right there you go So there's 10 boxes on the left side and 10 boxes on the right side We're gonna select a die and select that one one two three for the left side four five six for the right side and It's six So it's gonna be on the right side of these we will save For break for which it's coming up in a separate video right after this So I'll make those little Marks right there. So we know it's from the same case Any trades Daniel would love a Mike Schmidt Well, Schmidt we haven't seen him yet. So maybe in this fresh case. All right looks like no trade So I'm gonna actually re-alphabetized by player names so I can spot these names a little more easily and Good luck. We got Burt Blylov in Pirates Edition 10 out of 20. I do not remember Burt Blylov in Pirates Edition Towards the end of his career, maybe Or middle of his career All right Burt goes to Jimmy Jimmy Brant and Burt Burt we've got another pirate. That's Manny Sangin Signing right over the number here five out of 23 on that one a Manny go also going to Jimmy All right, two for two. All right next one is Is Ray Ordonez four out of 21? Mets Ray Ordonez Pretty a pretty good shortstop Four out of 21 He was no what I do not remember Agbiani I do remember Ray Ordonez Joel With Ray Ordonez. Yeah, Ryan Ryan saying he's got a he had a really great glove, right? We've got Ricky Henderson one of one Nice a Kmart superstars card Wow, I Am the greatest of all time Ricky Henderson That goes to Daniel Daniel Festervin All aboard the Big Hit Express Look at that No one steals that part. I kind of missed that part of the game stealing bases. All right, there you go Daniel Congrats All right Next up is Barry Larkin another one of one We have any one of ones in the first case now we've got two back to back Barry Larkin That is also for Daniel Festervin Daniel all aboard the Big Hit Express Josh you buy you can buy into a group break on jaspyscasebreaks.com. That's how you can get some of these cards I think fifty dollars get to you seven players In a ten box break $40 39 99 jaspyscasebreaks.com. There's more for a chance To win these cards All right, we've got Cliff Floyd 17 out of 33 nice Cliff Floyd Miami edition our actually Florida Marlins edition Jeremy Anderson Was randomized the Cliff Floyd. I like that old F Marlins logo right there. I Gotta they got to bring that back I think that that's one of the coolest. I didn't like the the Marlin through the circle one Was not as cool, but like Dontrell Willis in that cap. It's a good cap Some good cover. Oh, I gotta bring that logo back. I guess they're rebranded Miami Marlins This is not gonna come back. There's David Wright one of one Wow the captain If his back didn't fail I say this every time but if his back didn't fail him I feel like potential Hall of Fame career right there Who got randomized? David Wright Dennis Foley With the David Wright and one of one out of fives and under get the train whistle all aboard the big-head Express A few more to go we've got Fred McGriff the crime dog and that's Devil Ray's edition one out of five another train whistle Fred McGriff Crime dog John with Fred McGriff He had a great swing to great great stance great swing John Viglin all aboard the big-head Express Two more to go we'll get another train whistle before Maybe the other half has five train whistles in there, too. All right Next is nine out of 16 doc good and what up doc? Nice Alan Ginter card there and that's Daniel Festerman one of his last spot mojo spots gets the doc good in And the last one is Sean Casey nine out of 21 Sean Casey so some pretty great stuff in this archives Sean Casey that's gonna go to John Viglin as well nicely done. Thanks very much everyone Joe for jaspys case breaks calm. I'll see you next time. Bye. Bye