What went wrong that year on? Yes, my training. There were too few people, so we decided to postpone to January. Supposed to be running a training tonight. It was like, let's just, let's just call it. And I was like, great, I can hop onto my. There's, there's nothing like quite like canceling a meeting to cheer you up. Yes. She had to go to another meeting. But that's, that's, that's half the way there, you know. One at a time. The worst thing I remember when I had to go to an all day faculty meeting. And I was so distraught. So I, so I said to Nancy, how am I going to get through an all day faculty meeting? And she said, I'm going to teach you how to knit in five minutes. And it did it. It got me through. And when I got, when I got a snack, I passed it down to one of the faculty who I knew was a good knitter and she'd fix it and pass it back to me. You had a very long scarf at the end of it. I have very long, well, it was. Yeah. We've now had two staff retreats on zoom and let me, that's like next level, like. Yeah. Because we had one in March and one in, in December. And so we've got it. Helen, are they making that at all? Oh yeah. The university. We don't have long faculty meetings. Just a small like in our departmental meetings. That's all. Very quick. At least there's that. Because faculty meetings are like hundreds of people then. But only if, but only if you talk and they, you know, that's the thing is, and there is also the inverse proportion rule in faculty meetings that the time spent is inversely proportional to the seriousness of the problem. That's amazing. Let me just send a quick text. Folks enjoying it. And you do have a quorum. Yeah. Yeah. It's a challenge to figure out if we do have a quorum. So, okay. Because Julia left us. I'm sure you all thought. And then, um, just FYI, Janelle also sent, we've been playing phone tag and, you know, scheduling meetings and having to cancel and, um, and then, um, you know, I'm not going to be able to make it tonight. I'm not going to be able to make it tonight. I'm not going to be able to make it this afternoon that I've not had a chance to respond to. Um, but she can't make it tonight and is trying to figure out, she hasn't been able to make a lot of the Thursday night meetings and is trying to figure out how to. Best participate. So I'm just like, stay, stay. Right. Um, so I would definitely advertise that you have a space available in your, um, newsletter. Um, so, um, I'm just going to, um, I'm just going to write a note to myself on that. Um, well, should we kick it off? Yeah. Um, so honor agenda today and in my words, in addition to Cameron's, uh, so we've got, um, Uh, public comment review, agenda review. What we're doing now. Public comment. Uh, review and approve minutes. Uh, committee learnings will do in breakout groups. Um, um, uh, Uh, Uh, uh, Uh, uh, budget updates report back from the city council meeting and anything to note about budget. Um, and then before diving into kind of our, our program. So our outreach, um, fundraising updates, uh, creative discourse work plan updates. all kind of in the next 20 minutes or so, so that at six o'clock we can really dive in to our COVID conversation potentially with the can, which I'm not remembering what it stands for now. Guess, general area neighborhoods. Thank you. Are folks joining us at six for that? Do we know? Okay, so we'll hold on to that. Okay, so any adjustments to this agenda? Okay. No. Can I get a motion to approve? I move that we approve this agenda. And I will second. All in favor? Yeah. Aye. Any opposed? All right, motion passes. And then do we have the minutes? I do not have them pulled up. I think I just did. I don't know how to attach things to or share screen or anything like that. If someone can do that. Did you send them by email? I did send them. I think. You did send them. Did everybody get them? Did anybody get them? I don't remember. You can share your screen by hitting the green button at the bottom. Hold on. Share screen. Share screen. Yes. Okay. Yeah. I don't think I've got them. So I did everything except mail them. I think so. Isn't that brilliant? Okay. All right. So now I have to go to, how do I? Oh, there we are. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. I guess I wondered what happened to Pam Van Derksen which she was not interested in joining. I just, I didn't get her email and because I sent these out so late, I haven't had a chance to find her email to be able to confide her officially. What do you mean? Julia real quick. Be right back. Uh-oh. Someone at the door. Oh, we need him to scroll. To scroll for us. All right. All right. Re-meeting. Here we go. Yeah. I can still learn to stop myself whenever someone shares their screen. I try to go up and down and nothing happens. Every time. Like, ah. All right. I'm going to take this opportunity to get a power cord. We are saying we need you to scroll down. Oh, slowly. We're all, we're all hampered. And actually, can you scroll up a little bit? Come on. All right. We've got Michael and Jeremy back. Does anyone want to make a motion to approve the minutes? I move that we approve the minutes. Michael, do you want a second? No, I wrote them to someone else. Oh, you wrote them? Tell it all second. My second. Awesome. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Awesome. Okay. I'll try to remember to send the drafts the next time. Thank you so much for taking the notes, Michael. You're welcome. And now how do I unshare this screen? There you go. You did it. Okay. All right. Just close the document. You're very tolerant of this dinosaur. Thank you very much. Oh, it's fine, Michael. We're all right here with you. I didn't have to do any Zoom meetings before March. Doing. And now I'm going to ask about breakout groups because we were in the effort of wanting to share some learnings and continue our committee's learning of just wanting to break out into groups for about five minutes per meeting, to one-on-one to share about some stuff that you've been diving into over the last two weeks. I would see the breakout group button. And I don't know. Yeah, so I don't know if that's something that I have to authorize, but I was looking while you were saying that. I don't see a way for me to do that. There's no breakout groups. Well, I don't know if we paid for that, if that's a thing we have to pay for. And there are only six of us here. And so why do we need a breakout group? Can we talk about this? To have it just be five minutes rather than 20 minutes kind of thing. And to not necessarily have it be recorded on Orca, if anyone... Well, that's not exactly how public meetings should be going. Just remember that this is public city business. So I could kick it off if you don't mind. I didn't really do any meetings, but I did discuss with a leadership group, sort of a network of women throughout the state who are in positions of leadership within municipalities and towns. And we were talking to the league of Vermont, like the Vermont League of Cities and Towns, having a new executive director. And we all got to talk to them about what we were looking for. And one of the biggest things that we were able to bring forward is how badly we need as a state, somebody who can come into that position who has strong experience in equity and diversity. I've been to a training and I've, you know, know what you're talking about, but someone who has like proven track record work with that because that is something that's so central to a lot of what Vermont government are doing right now. Really specified to the leadership there that that's what we want to see at our next executive director as somebody with a track record in that field. So will anything come of that? I don't know. Say again what the field is that you're, I'm sorry, I'm so scared to signal that. It's okay, the Vermont League of Cities and Towns hiring a new executive director. Right. So they really help, they're sort of our main lobbyists, if you will. Really a lobbyist, but they help support initiatives that would support Vermont municipalities. They are a very important voice government structure here. So that was, I thought like a really engaging conversation to have with specifically a group of women and seeing how much they wanted to bring that to the table. So specifically women's issues or women and leadership roles? It was just a women in leadership roles meeting talking about the next BLCT executive director. Okay. Sorry, I got distracted there. Okay. Obviously. Different group. No. Michael, do you want to go? Sure. No, I would like to rather sit and think a little bit more about this. Yeah. Helen, you were the one I think who suggested this. Did you have anything specific in mind when you did that, when you had made that suggestion? No, I was talking about the brainstorming. First, I'm new. I'm not that new, but still new for this committee. So I just want to learn more about what we can do, which Shayna shared those documents, which were very helpful for me to understand a little bit more about the committee. It was just, I just offer like having brainstorming session. That's all, just learn your thoughts and my expertise is on education. So if we come up with anything related to education, I can take the lead, I can help other people, I can be more active. Other than that, I can listen other ideas and try to find out how I could be helpful. Well, I think you have a lot to offer too. And I think you said the committee, Shayna, you said the committee had previously been doing this kind of thing. Can you, I wonder if you could talk about a little bit about how- Yeah, when Julia was, yeah, when Julia was chair and we were in person, we were, we'd kick off each of our meetings with just sharing, pairing up and having folks just do like a pair, share of something they were reading or participating in or a conversation they had had, just some like a podcast they'd listened to and then just do like report acts of like one or two and just as an opportunity to be able to build community within our organization, within CJAC and to be able to share some of these, be learning. Yeah, so like for, for example, the best book that I've read in 2020, which I feel like is saying something because I feel like I've read a lot of really good books in 2020, lots of time. It's still called like, it's called Undrowned and it's like Black Feminist Lessons for Marine Mammals. It just came out from AK Press and it has just like really been like working my brain and then there's all these like exercises in the end, like for each chapter here's some things that you can do to like decolonize your mind and it's just done a really, really powerful read and I've like been trying to find where I can get copies to share with the author. Do you know the author's name? I don't, I can look it up real quick. I don't have it here with me. If we're going to talk about books we've read and stuff like that, I will recommend Cast. Oh yeah, I haven't read that one yet. What's her name, Elizabeth? Oh, she wrote The Wont of Other Suns. But what she does there is to say, basically to say that racism is a kind of subset of caste system. And so she's really looking broadly and across cultures at cast.  And it's worth reading it. I think it, Wilkerson is her name, Elizabeth Wilkerson. And she uses a lot of, as she did in Wont of Other Suns, she uses a lot of interviews and some personal experiences as well. So I recommend that I have a copy and I'd be willing to share, you know, to lend it around to anyone who wants to borrow it. And you can, we can just sort of circulate it within the committee if you'd like to do that. So. I saw a post on from Port Form about anti-racist book club. They are reading books about this topic. Have you heard about it or any of you kind of, like a member of it? I saw it on from which firm and I shared it in the newsletter, but I have not, I have not gone. I've been part of, yeah. Be a good place to figure out your members. Great. Jeremy, Lauren, I don't know if Lauren said the stuff away. I don't know if Lauren said the stuff away. I feel a little bit, excuse me, unprepared, but I will just say that I'm doing some anti-racist learning with some other folks through the Unitarian Universalist Association. They have a virtual program going now that I've joined, which has been really good. It's work that's geared towards white folks kind of going down the path of moving from maybe politely not racist to decidedly anti-racist. And so it's just for me kind of personally to spend a great learning journey. There was a lot of great resources that we have access to through this program. Some stuff that people are maybe familiar with that's pretty well known over the past year, like Ibrahim X. Kendi's book, How to Be Anti-Racist, but there's a lot of content that we've been going through. Some of it's more poetic and kind of art space, but it's, I mean, I could share lots of stuff, I suppose, links, but I'll just say for now that's been for me a good learning experience and certainly kind of syncs up with my motivations and desire to be working with this group. And hi, welcome. Elizabeth, thanks for jumping right in. We were just doing a go around and just sharing any learning, books, groups, podcasts, conversations that we've been learning from over the past few weeks. So I'm a member of THRIVE, which is a large network in central Vermont of mostly human resource groups. And not at this meeting, but at the previous meeting, there was a discussion of values and where we felt we, whether we felt we needed training as the entire group of THRIVE or if there were tools to evaluate where each organization was as far as different criteria, especially racism being one of the top concerns. And so that was interesting. I honestly have been so busy with My Ride by GMT and getting that lunched two weeks from today. That I am, I kind of dropped that ball. However, I do want to make you aware of THRIVE. Jeremy, if you could put some information, I just came in at the end of your talk. So I'd be interested in whatever links you have. And that would be fabulous. I'm trying to think of what other things would be relevant for your group. I think that one of the things I wanted to talk about basically was the outreach to current riders that's happening now with My Ride by GMT. Two years ago, I started to draft a rider engagement and marketing plan with a special emphasis that whatever innovations happen that the current riders have been given accommodations that would work for them so that everyone can ride. There has been a bit of concern because there is a population. We did an onboard survey the week before Thanksgiving week and there's concern by current riders, particularly at the Montalier Housing Authority that this happened and that before the system was adopted there weren't public hearings, which I think is a very valid concern. We are at Sustainable Montalier Coalition, we have a document in which we're writing up everything that worked, all the mistakes we made, all the successes we've had. And I think that the fact that there weren't public hearings or public hearings once the system was adopted, but not before. And so individuals would have had the opportunity to state their case and their concerns. We're making great headway in I think creating accommodations. The community, the phone in the community room at Pioneer can be used to make a call because there are people who don't have a personal device in order to contact and reserve a ride. I'm now working on getting a phone like you would have at an airport where you could press the two digit code and we're wondering whether the pay phone at the community room at Lane shops can be modified. And so that people can just pick up the phone. There is a local number for GMT. So it turns out that inadvertently we've given out the Burlington number and today I got a call from a gentleman who I've ridden the bus with many times to it is lined. And he said, now what's the phone number for GMT? I said, oh, no problem, I've got it. And I went in and I found this 223 number and it had to laugh. So we're now promoting the local number. But it's been a bit of a challenge. Can you tell us what that number is? So go ahead again. Sure, you bet. All right, we're gonna, you're gonna see it everywhere. You're gonna be able to recite it by the time we're done. Five, two weeks is over, I'd rather watch. So just a second. I currently have a baby picture up with my granddaughter. All right, let's get to the phone number, Parker. GMT, it's<PHONE_NUMBER>. And you press option one to get to the call center. So there are a couple of different ways that you can book your ride. And it turns out that when we did the survey about a third of the people are sitting on the fence, they don't know what they're thinking about it. A third of the, a little over a third are excited about it. And a little under a third are like, no way, no how. And so I was just writing up a report on, so we sat at pioneer and lane shops from 10 to 12, five days a week, last week. We had two teams of two. And there's a lot of anxiety already because of COVID. And then there's additional anxiety because so many people need the structure of the time, of the regularly scheduled time to structure their days. And so I finally came up with the innovation that they can still leave lane shops at 16 after the hour. And they can still leave, you know, Walmart at the time that they're used to going. So we're making slow progress in being able to make it comfortable for people, but it will take more time. One of the things that we're interested in if you could pass this word along, we're looking for what we're calling ambassadors to help us in two weeks, you know, for a couple of hours or for a morning or afternoon to be at various locations. I'm gonna be at lane shops. Laura Brooke is gonna be a pioneer. Tom Huberkson, our VISTA volunteer will be up at Walmart kind of sitting in his car jumping out to, you know, going to the shelter. Hanif Nazarelli will be at the transit center, which hopefully will be open from seven o'clock until 6.30 with staff from seven o'clock to 11 and then staff from 2.30 to 6.30. The middle time Hanif will be there because he is the camcorder for that area. So he's for, you know, that downtown area. We do need someone probably at downtown Shaw's who would basically sit in their car and pop out if someone came to the bus shelter or up at Sky Shaw's. So at the two Shaw's, we need people. And there are a few other places where we could benefit from having someone. It's a little bit of an odd request because you would be sitting in your car kind of doing other things and just popping out if someone arrived. So anyway, thank you. If you have any questions, please ask. You know, it's been a little daunting to receive the wrath. The COVID kind of suppressed wrath of people which is all funneling itself into my ride. And we believe that over time, things will shift but it has probably not been the most inclusive way going about starting things. And part of the issue is that funding from VTrans just came about six weeks ago, maybe five weeks ago. So we're really behind the eight ball. So I just wanted to say that inadvertently we have not been doing the job that I envisioned. I envisioned us starting in August. Well, Elizabeth, I know that this group was also as a while we have you, wanted to know if you could go over a little bit about the work that we all did with Winock Rock and sort of where that ended and maybe where this could plug into that. Yeah, as COVID started, the 211 which is the Vermont state emergency number that people can call to understand what resources are available to them was overwhelmed. And so what happened was that an initiative happened to divide the state up into smaller components. So we had Winock Rock, which was Washington, North Orange regional, and I love this part command center. I was like command center. It was so, I was like, phew. And so it was an honorable initiative where many volunteers were trained. And because of COVID, the number was forwarded to these people to work from home, blah, blah, blah. They learned a lot. Sadly, one of the things we discovered is that we're Yankees and that it was very difficult to ask for help. The difference between Winock Rock and being able to ask about resources versus what happened with the outpouring up at the Berlin, what do we call it? Yes, when you work for the military but you just do it on the weekends, a reserve. When they had the food giveaway and it was guys since soldier outfits who they didn't know who were giving out boxes of food, there was a line of like 1,000 cars, right? And because it was anonymous. And so there was something about Winock Rock which is not really anonymous. So it turned out that for all that effort, there was something like 65 calls, basta. I mean, it was very challenging to know that in the end. However, it's there if we need it again. If there's a tremendous uptick, it's there as a resource, it can be reactivated. So Winock Rock, I think, somewhat came out of Thrive because there was already a group there that knew that we're working together that they managed to pull some personnel. So we had like Ian Hitchcock from the NRC and we had people from different organizations who pooled together to make Winock Rock happen. Meanwhile, in Montpelier, we had, which started out to be a very active group which I call the Tuesday Montpelier Coalition Group. And members of the Montpelier city staff were there. Cameron was there. Police chief, fire chief sometimes. MSAC, always a representative. Often in the end, it was the AmeriCorps volunteer. We had Luke Rackers from CVCOA. We had just a lot of different, well, MMA used to come Montpelier Mutual Aid. It was a nice diversity of people. And it was very valuable. A lot of the churches came in the beginning. It was a valuable way for us to share communication and sort things out in the beginning when things were so very messy. As things returned to the new normal, a lot of people have dropped off. And I have to say that at the last call, Cameron was waiting and I was in the wrong Zoom room. And finally, she sent me a note saying, I'm here. I have to leave now. Been waiting for 10 minutes. So I failed, but I do still, and I haven't sent out your note actually, I do still often send out minutes. We're meeting every three weeks. It's there if we need to reactivate it. And it was really heartwarming. I did write up a resolution thanking all of the people who had been working within those different groups, volunteering so much time within Montpelier. And that resolution was read, I don't know, sometime. Do you remember? It was maybe in August or something. I don't remember when anything happened this year, but it did happen. Yeah, we know it happened. It's in the great, what do we call it, shamanic time of 2020. So, yeah, so that's, does that fill you in? Go ahead. Well, pause for a second, but then I'll just have a minute. Yeah, so last meeting or two meetings ago, we sat as a committee, we're going through this process of hiring these consultants and figuring what should we as a city prioritize right now, which is very exciting and very necessary. And it's a very slow process. And so we're, which started a year before COVID hit, right? And so now we're in the biggest crisis of my lifetime. I feel fine, vain, and we're not doing a whole lot of kind of external work. And so this question of, is, you know, CJAC uniquely positioned to, like, what can we, what is there something, is there a need for what we can do in during this crisis? Yeah, and like, what are their gaps? Are there places that need more support or more help? Or I don't know if there's other questions like that from other folks, but I think that's kind of what we wanted to open it up to. I wanted to just report on one more thing. So sustainable my pillar on when COVID started picked up the ball for capillary neighborhoods, which was an initiative which Mary Hooper started about a dozen years ago. And Laura Brooke has been organizing, and now with Tom Heberks and our, our AmeriCorps VISTA volunteer, are organizing that initiative. There have been as many as 32 people who volunteered during the height of COVID. The concept was to, we initially pliered all of my pillar pretty much with a note with the Winock Rock information, our information and Montalier Mutual AIDS information. And so- And sorry, Elizabeth, our, is it sustainable Montalier Coalition or? Yeah, sustainable Montalier Coalition, like has donated quantum amount of time to this effort. We've gotten no funding for it, except we got, we did get $1,000 check for somebody who wanted us to do COVID related activities. So we've used that money to do sandwich boards and a few other things, but basically it's been an unfunded initiative for us. And so what we're trying to do is build communication networks so that the city can communicate with residents, so that residents can communicate together. And so the groups of residents in the neighborhoods can communicate with the city. And so it's been great because Donna Casey Barlow, for instance, from Public Works is now using the CAN network. If there's a sewer or water main break, she contacts Laura. Laura immediately gets the CAN person to send out information, post information around the, you know, around their neighborhood. And that's been very effective. And now the new police chief, Chief Pete is asking to have CAN coordinators consider working with the police department to help the police. You know, one of my big things, and I don't know if this is relevant to your work, Jeremy, is that the police walk more, get out of their cars and walk more and know everybody. My voice, my argument has always been, I lived downtown, I know everybody. You know, I knew Mark. You didn't talk to Mark very often, although occasionally he did say something, you know, but we all knew each other. And so I believe that so many things would be better if we had deeper personal relationships. And to that end, members of the police force have actually been asking the police commissioner, I mean the police chief to do more public work to create relationships. And I think that that's only a plus. I understand the, you know, the defund the police concept. I think it's something that we need to think about how to do that creatively. In the meantime, we need our police to know everybody. And so that there are fewer issues like have happened in the past. So it is not something that we're actively, like what we're doing is we're offering it to canned coordinators who are interested in participating and developing that kind of relationship for their neighborhood. So I just wanted to report on that. I want to report on a huge issue which is what has happened to Montpelier Mutual Aid. At one point, Ian Hitchcock organized all of the Washington County Mutual Aid groups. And I have wanted to get that group back together. I just haven't had the bandwidth to do it. There is a need to have that kind of Washington County Mutual Aid meeting again. And Sustainable Montpelier Coalition is considered a mutual aid group even though we don't use that title or that format. And our Montpelier Mutual Aid has kind of fallen by the wayside. It seems to have always been the case that there were a few people who were organizing things. And one of the challenges is without, as you all know as a group, without a paid person to spearhead different actions. If you're relying on a volunteer group, it's very hard to move forward. So there would be a few people like Emily Attunions started, she burnt out, then Maggie took over and a few other people were working with her. They were burned out. Maggie's doing a doctoral thesis we haven't heard from her in ages. So we don't really know what's happening there. And there were 350 volunteers which is now in an exclusive list which we've never been able to access. We don't know who they are and it seems to me a wasted resource. So there are a couple of nuts to be cracked there. And I'm going to have to really think about where the gaps are. I'm an introverted thinking kind of person. So I need to have time to meditate on that but I'd be happy to send that information to whoever you would like me to send it to to share with your group once I've pondered. That would be great. And I'll say thank you, Cameron, like having staff is like so great.  And so things just kind of petered out because there wasn't that like, I don't know, like satisfied, you know, like there was kind of put into gift cards and given, you know, grocery gift cards to families through the schools or something, but it wasn't about like that building relationships that kind of was the story that was being told other places. And so I didn't know if that, it sounds like that hasn't really changed yet. I, you know, we're, you know, in the long, dark winter right now, I feel like if we're gonna see an uptick in me, it's gonna be now. Yeah, so I didn't know, have you been seeing any of that? Or I'm also hearing that you want to sit and think about it too. So. Well, we haven't been, I, because, well, first of all, I almost think the MMA site is not working. They did go fund me, I think, and raise quite a bit of money for $100 gift cards. But there wasn't, you know, well, also Laura and I met with Maggie every Monday morning for months, you know, sharing information and basically offering the CAN network to MMA. And so the concept was that, because CAN knew their neighborhood, that we would ask that MMA, when they were pairing a person in need with a person who would help them, would do it within the same neighborhood so that a relationship could be built. So we were really promoting that heavily.  But I got some responses and I built some relationships, particularly at Prospect Street, where there are a lot of elderly people. And some people called me up and I put them together with MMA, but it is really about building relationships. And when we had a meeting of the kind of Winoprak group at the end, we talked about building relationships, and we also talked about changing the narrative. And part of the problem with the current narrative of COVID is that it is so elusive. It is not physical, like Irene was, like your house flooded, you needed help. And it was legitimate to ask for help. COVID's happening, it's kind of unseen. And so how do you justify doing this? I met a woman that day, I was passing out the flyers, who was coming home from the co-op with a basket. She said, I have just bought, like the most reasonable food I can. And, you know, there are 10 more days before the end of the month, I have no more money for food. And I said, well, I know I can't ask for help. So we have to kind of get underneath that rock of the idea of help.  You know, if for you to get something from COVID relief funds is no different than anybody else getting, you know, that this is not help, this is part of the equation of living in a disaster. And that concept and that narrative of being, you know, that it's not help that you're not breaking your pride. How we change that now still is a challenge. I have to say that Jamie Bedard, I don't know if you're in touch with her at JustBasics, God bless her, you know, they're passing out. I promoted to Econolodge to a lot of different places. Cross promoted my ride with their holiday gift, you know, their Callaway food box. And they're just getting a lot of people now. And so there's a need. It's just hard for people to go. I think it's easier now that people aren't going down into the basement, that they're just kind of going and being given a box. It's much easier than it was when they had to go down and sign in and it was very personal. And there was a lot of shame around that. Anyway, I think if we can get past shame, if we can create a new narrative and strengthen that, if we can help build the relationships we need to build now, you know, if people can, but we can't build the relationships because we're all shut away. Anyway, enough said, I admire what you guys are doing. I always have, if I had bandwidth, I would be with you in a flash. That's sweet, thank you. Well, I feel like I've just done a ton of talking. So if anyone else has any questions or reflections or things that are springing up. I knew you, Michael. Jeremy and then Michael, sorry. Thanks, Elizabeth, for speaking. We actually did meet in those early days of the pandemic. I really wanted to be a canned volunteer and I really tried, but I just, I totally dropped it. So I wasn't able to follow through. So I really, I'm familiar with your work and really appreciate what you all have been doing. I'm really interested in this last kind of discussion around the perception of assistance and public aid, mutual aid. I don't know if there's anything there for us. So maybe that's something you might think more on. Could a committee like ours, is this frozen? Yeah, Jeremy, for us, we too. We need to, okay. Oh, you're back. Okay, I was saying, I'm really interested in this discussion around the perceptions of aid and assistance. And Elizabeth, I'm wondering if that's something you might think a little bit more specifically on. I wonder if there's a role for us somewhere where they're in the equation within the community about kind of changing that narrative around what it means to both receive and even ask for some kind of public assistance or mutual aid. So that's interesting to me. It would be nice to not use the words public assistance. I think it would be great to curate language. And I think you could help with that as a committee to curate language, which is equitable and can allow people to maintain their pride and their sense of self-esteem. You know, I'm part of Central Vermont DSA. I'm off doing a book reading group. And you know, what is a worker? A worker is a person who doesn't have control over how their resources come to them.  And I think that we have a hard time equalizing everybody in that arena. And particularly because we have such a sharp divide in my career between having many people who have and then a percentage of people who don't have. And you know, I think one of the, obviously one of the goals of your committee is to get rid of the stigma, you know? And so I leave you that as a challenge. I'm glad you raised it, Jeremy. But I think curating the language would be helpful. Michael. I remember when the first CAN effort started and it had a brief, but very intense life. And I think the two things that made it successful were first, they were, you know, things like they would get-togethers, like cut blocks and stuff like that. Okay, that's off the table now. And we don't have a really- Michael, when was the first round? Oh, it's a long time. It's a long time. Gwen Halsmith was actually the one who put that together. So it's- Oh, and Mary. Yeah. They work together, but it was Gwen who was interested and that's my second point. But so we're talking about, you know, 10, 10 or 15, 10 or 12 years. 12 years ago, yeah. Okay. So there were a series of, also the neighborhoods were very interesting because some of them, they were very mixed up neighborhoods and that was good. People got out of their boxes of this neighborhood, this College Hill neighborhood went all the way down the hill into some streets that I had never even known with there down closer to downtown. And it was a very interesting way of integrating the city by redrawing the mental maps that people have. And I don't know what thinking went on when you were drawing the maps for the neighborhoods here but- We didn't draw them. They drew themselves. Okay. Well, it did help, I think, to have gotten some guidance to just mix things up a little bit. So people did get out of their accustomed neighbors and try to meet some other people. So that's one thing. The second thing that made it work for a while anyway was that the major, it had a major issue which was the new zoning regs. And what Gwen was interested in was getting people to respond to proposals and make comments about how the zoning regulations and planning ought to go. And I don't know how you then, how you formulate a statement about what the issue is. What I hear you saying is, you know, a neighborhood, you know, mutual assistance as the issue. But I think trying to formulate that and articulate that reason for action, that reason for communicating would be really helpful. Thank you, Michael. I hear what you're saying. I wanna say that my perception is very different from yours. My perception was that it was originally organized as a response to the rapid increase in fuel prices that happened because of an economic downturn. And the fact that it was causing people to have to spend a disproportionate amount of their income on fuel. So the concept was that you kind of understood your neighborhood and understood if there were people who had specific needs and tried to make sure that they knew what resources were available. It may have morphed into what you're talking about, Michael, over time, but that was not the original founding idea. So I'm glad to hear this piece of history because I've not heard that before. Am I allowed to share screen, Cameron? Okay, I'm gonna just share screen. This is on our site. This is the CAN page. So that's the original CAN logo. And I just wanted to show you what the CAN map looks like rather than going with the 12 groups that were originally the town was carved up into. This is the current listing of the CAN neighborhoods. And so there are, I think about 40 of them here. And so you'll see that some of them are open and others are not. And this is Laura Brooks' map. So I just thought I'd let you know that that exists. And this is what we found is that most people identify within these groupings as their neighborhoods. So as a tool going forward, it's good to know that that's available and that we're open for any way in which we can help you get out your word. We do a monthly newsletter. We have started to create, we did some prototypes of on sandwich boards, which we're calling neighborhood information kiosks, which we found. I'm seeing them around. They're awesome. Yeah. That's what I found out about the parking before I got the thing in the mail. It's great except in front of city hall where there's a wind tunnel and it just went, pfft. So Tina O'Brien, who was our former chair, has a tool shop, you know, wood shop. And so he's gonna take on making some more stable nicks with perhaps some wooden arms and weighted bottoms and whatever to make them work. But, you know, we're pulling them in for a little while just because we don't have the bandwidth to work with them for a couple of months, but they'll be out in the beginning of the spring. And so what we're trying to do is go analog on this and encourage community to use those sandwich boards to promote things within their little grouping to kind of create that relationship through that central point. So if you want anything sent out through our newsletter, we send out many of Cameron's COVID updates and, you know, other food shelf ideas and whatnot. So public works information. So just know that we're there. Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate you're giving me your bit of history there. I could see that that would have been a kind of a good issue to rally around. They weren't mutually exclusive. And I can't, and it may, I mean, the idea of people being alert to other people's needs was certainly part of the discussion and what was going on. But I just remember them in the context of trying to do the new master plan. Thank you. Any other questions? I have an unrelated question. If I would like to double check some information on our website, the Lake Montpere website about Cannes. Isn't that Laura? Would that be the most efficient thing? Yes. Okay. I think we have this like very old list on our website. If I think who are like who the representatives are, and I think it's wrong. So I wanna... Yeah. We're having a capacity issue in that, you know, where it is an unfunded initiative and we have put, I mean, I got shingles. Let's face it, you know, the beginning of COVID, we were working nonstop and I just went and got shingles.  You know, and we're having another one of those little time crisis now because it's gonna take some time to get this new service launched and have everybody on it. So anyway, thank you everybody for listening to me blather for long period of time. It's now 6.29. I've been on Zoom since three o'clock and I am going to give them a seven o'clock call till 8.30. So I'm gonna go make myself a toasted cheese sandwich. Definitely from the computer for 29 minutes. Yeah. Exactly. I wanna wish you all happy holiday, however you celebrate it and stay safe, you know, stay happy and I, again, from the bottom of my heart, I love what you all are doing and you're always with me in my heart, even though you don't see me here on the screen. So if you ever have me, call me back. You know, I can blather and share. So anyway, thank you. Yeah. And marry me on like, I will. Yeah, knowing, yeah, that we're here and how we, maybe we'll have to help and then we'll, yeah, send you stuff to put in the newsletter for even advertising for our open committee positions and some other things, some other things there. So when the nicks come back, you're welcome to post away. So thank you. And I do think that how we curate the language, what Jeremy brought up is hugely important. So I think you all need to marinate on that too. Yeah. I wanna like look into polling and stuff too. I'm sure we're not the only place dealing with this and I hope, yeah, would be so interesting to figure out. Yeah. I wanna see that Deb Sox just did a survey down in Berry. I have yet to read what the survey questions were, but we're thinking about, we have been thinking about doing a Montalier survey and truthfully, as Cameron knows, we would have, if funding were available this past year, we would have done a townwide survey that happens every 10 years. And Groberg and Laura Gephart when she was here and I sat down and looked at the 10 year ago survey of the community. It's like a community survey. So I'm thinking that potentially Deb Sox's survey in Berry might be a good substitute that we might bootstrap and do ourselves. So I will let you guys know more about that when I finally have the time to actually read it and understand it was, it could have some very important questions from your committee that I think would be very helpful in assessing where we are. So I'm not going to think any more thoughts. I'm going to make a toasted cheese sandwich. Thank you. Good night. I've appreciated your time. Thank you for listening. I'll send you an email with some stuff about the survey. Yeah, my email is- We'll do a couple of more things and I'll send you some- I'm just gonna put my email in the chat, E Parker at sustainablemontpelier.org. There you go. Thank you. That was awesome. Hi. Thanks Elizabeth. Yeah. Thank you. I know that was a lot. Come on, computer. My Chrome keeps crashing and that's what everything is on. Thankfully it's not Zoom. So, but I don't feel like I'm like looking at you but also everyone else is just bringing up any new ideas or thoughts or anything else. The action. I thought it was interesting that they're thinking about a survey because of course that's part of what the end of part one or the second part of part one is. Just figuring out where the questions that we are focused on will fit into their questions and we have the money in theory anyway to be circulating the survey. So maybe we can offer to have their survey, try to invite their survey into the one that we've got planned and funding for. If the funding is the major issue that they're confronting, it seems to me we can help with that. It didn't seem like that was the major issue though, right? No, I think to me it seems like it would just be a very wildly different community. I think it's, but I don't know. Do we wanna survey our community twice about related questions? Right. Well, I think we could definitely talk to her more about that opportunity, the closer it comes to doing our community survey. What, can you remind me what the timeframe was for when we might do a survey? Getting pushed back. I thought it was gonna be after they had done the last conversation I remember about this, they decided that they would do it before they did all 10 of the focus groups after doing three or four. So if they're starting, if they're planning to start in January, probably the end of February is when they might be ready to start sending, putting together the survey. So that would be, the survey out in March is my guess, which is a little distracting because it's also town meeting time. And I think they have to be, we have to be careful about not getting the survey lost in town meeting stuff, but. Well, we can always have them on tables where people would take them in to vote. We could, they're, we all have, I can't think of a word for posters for things that people would wanna look at. That's the best I got tonight. Posters. All right, displays, I don't know. Well, right next to the Girl Scout cookie to take what would be good. Yes. Oh, they didn't come last time. I don't know if they're gonna come this time. Oh, that's true. It depends, yeah, that's right. Sorry, I'm still trying to pull up my notes from creative discourses. Sorry. I can go over the, say any budget updates. Why don't we view the budget updates and like city committee report backs and fundraising updates. I can kind of give my creative discourses download. I'm really apologize. I don't have any budget updates other than city council did vote to put back the homelessness task force, the community fund and housing trust fund, not the degrees that they've been funded before accepting the community trust fund, but just the community fund, sorry, mixing up all my funds. But so that was really great. And I really, as a staff perspective, appreciated y'all's presentation at that meeting. That was really nice. Lauren, I'm sort of looking at you to see if we have any other updates, but I think that was a really great outcome for that meeting. Yeah, no, I mean, I would just add I found like council overall to be just, it seemed more like really trying to figure out how to use the tool and like, I mean, just coming and presenting and having the example like worked through, I think made it a lot more tangible for people. So I think, and I think like that conversation framing up for when we were getting into actual budget decisions, I do think it was like really getting wheels turning in a way and framing things differently than how the conversation might have otherwise. I could see us adding those things back in, but it also I think just is like bigger thinking about how we're approaching the budget and how we could be thinking about it. So I thought it was really very well done and really valuable contribution to the process. And, you know, obviously a lot to build on and like how do we build that from like the base on up is obviously an important conversation too. So it's not just like the working around the edges at the end, but really incorporating it from the beginning, I don't know that was my perspective and it'll be interesting to see in the next iterations what that gets built on. Well, thanks for that feedback. I was there too, listening and watching and I think you did a very good job, Jeremy and Shayna, especially going through the example, I think was very helpful. And I think it did make it easier for the council to make decisions, you know, it was clear that it was helpful that Bill had sort of set up that, you know, really by supporting those, but I think giving the council some framework in which to make that decision was really what made the difference. It was not just, it didn't look like, oh, we're responding right away from the heart. There was another level of consideration that went into that and that was really very good. But there's gonna get a lot of things like that now. And Julia. Yeah, it was great to contribute in that way. Laura and Cameron, I'm wondering, you know, there's some stuff coming up next with the budget. What are your expectations about what happens? Because I think there's a public meeting or workshop, city, what are you expecting might happen in those events? Well, we haven't heard of anybody. I'm just speaking for myself. I haven't heard of anyone coming to petition. So that may have, I mean, that might, someone might come to the board and ask to be put on the ballot. That might happen. That can always happen. Good year, bad year, whenever. I haven't heard of anyone requesting time on the agenda for that. They might come just because it's a public hearing. So I don't know. That's the most exciting thing about public hearing. There's an unknown thing. And I see feedback on the budget. I will say that we have been doing our public budget priority survey for the first time in a while. We really kicking this off as something we want to integrate into our budget process. Our new finance directors very, I think, more attuned to getting public feedback in different ways. And we've had way more responses than I thought we would so far in the hundreds at this point, which for us is pretty good, to be honest. We will never have a statistically significant survey with our population size, like ever. So I'm just grateful that people are responding to this. So we'll have some really good information out of that. And when we get that report, I'll send that to you because we'll stop it after the second public hearing. We want to leave it open for the public hearing time. And then we'll be getting a report back on those priorities. I will say that looking at the beginning information, we're getting out of that. A lot of people's priorities are with public works. Little teaser there. What's the name of the survey again? I will share it with you right now. Do you say a lot of people's what is with public works? So we've asked people to rank their priorities and most. So they want to increase funding in public work? OK, yep. I'll share the link with you right now. And I just put the survey in the chat because I had it on my computer. Amazing. Thank you so much. Already? How was this? How was this survey? It's crazy because I have 50 tabs open. I'm sorry. How was the survey distributed? We're using SurveyMonkey right now. What our goals are for next year. And so I think this is an exciting conversation that we could have is making this a more inclusive thing. Like, how do we reach people who don't be internet, right? Right. COVID really ruined a lot of our plans, which was to have public forums, not counsel, public hearings, but public forums. The finance director and I were working very closely on creating those where we could walk through that, what the budget means, what we do as staff, and then hand out these as pieces of paper. I really liked what a sustainable Montpelier did with the MyRide program, where they had a survey, but people could just call a number and take the questions on. So these are things that we know already that we need to improve on. So that is definitely in our workload to really do a job at distributing this, because I'm just going to acknowledge right now we didn't. That's not the most inclusive or far-reaching way. So we are aware of that. I just tried this address, and what comes up is just an introduction to SurveyMonkey, not to the survey itself. It's weird. Just work for me. Work for me, too. OK, all right. I see why, because I already had taken the survey, and so I'm not allowed to get into it twice. But I'll write it down. We can put it in the minutes if you want to. Yeah, we're going to send it out in the newsletter, too. In the newsletter, right. I think that's our main way right now of getting it out. Yeah, 50 people in comparison to however many can. But let's start. Yeah, I mean, I do feel like not to go down a rabbit hole here, but just thinking of the charge of this group and the budget and trying to, I mean, the mental gymnastics of trying to plan when you're like, OK, what money might come from the federal government? And probably that would be DPW-ish money. And so should we be funding other things hoping that infrastructure money comes through? If it doesn't, how does that set us back as a community and create other ripple effects for decades in our capital? It's like there's so much guesswork around the budget. And I mean, I think the city staff has worked really hard trying to think through scenarios and stuff. But yeah, you're making decisions, I feel like, with blindfolds on of just trying to use your best judgment. And so thinking about what core services and who's affected by what and yes, it's have a list and a memo coming for you, Lauren, about like what's going to be affected staff wise, staff capacity for this. And also what projects are nothing. Nothing we put off as shovel ready, but what could what is closest to that? So people will be prioritizing that for you guys for January meetings. If I made this, I was at that meeting for two, for two committees, ours and the Montpelier Community Fund. And before we came on, Central Vermont Home Health and Hospice made an appeal for getting directly on the budget. And here I think the city council made a mistake, if I may, allowing them not just to come on the budget, but actually waiving the requirement for petition, for the petition. And the reason I think it's a mistake is because all, there are a lot of organizations that are in a similar position to Home Health and Hospice. And they may do exactly the same thing, come to the council and say, you know, we're providing this critical service, we would like to be on the budget and not having to go through the process that the council itself set up, especially for petitions that had money attached to them. It's twice the number of required signatures from petitions that don't have money attached to them. And I think the council's gonna, I don't know if it will happen and I hope it doesn't happen, but there is the danger that you'll get started to get flooded with people asking to be put on the ballot without having to go through the process.  And like, so we are trying to draw a line around if you've met certain criteria of like having proven that you could get community signatures and all that. And so somebody would have to meet that bar, which I don't think I don't think, I think almost like my understanding was no other entity meets that requirement currently. The library, the library. And they'll get put on too, like the same way that it gets waived. So that's the only other one that I can think of. But yeah, I mean, at that conversation, I there could be, you know, certainly there are many other groups doing like very laudable critical work right now, but I think it will be, I mean, it's hard to, yeah, it's tricky because you're like, do you make home health and hospice spend their time collecting hundreds of signatures and during COVID time? But yeah, yeah, we'll see. Could we move on to talking about our big priority of where he was creative dispersals? Not that this is not important, but it's very important. All right, keep taking us down rabbit holes. It's very important. Okay, first of all, we're batting three for three. I don't know what that's called in baseball terms for grants. We got our third grant, the Spark Grant. I've never played baseball in politics. So yay, like we're doing great.  I'm spending some time around the holidays to crank out. If anyone wants to help and support, please, you know, wink, wink, let me know. But huge applause to Pellan for helping get this one in. So nice. Which one is that? The Spark Grant, so it's a Vermont Community Foundation. Okay, so we have Ben and Jerry's Vermont community, and what's the third one then? There was a third one. Oh, this is very embarrassing. I hope no one watches this on the Orca media and doesn't feel appreciated. I will let you know and we can put that in a minute. Yes, okay. I just heard on public radio about the Joyce Foundation, which is interested in social equity. So I will look into that one. I haven't done anything since then. I've been involved mostly with the Community Fund, which we had 38 applications to review. And so that really took up all my time. So I apologize for that. So Shayna, thank you for your help in educating me about writing a grant because it was first time for me. Since it seems that I kind of learned, I can help you more in a more comfortable and confident way. So just let me know if you want to write other grant proposals I am here. Don't say that too loudly. Yeah. Great. And thank you again, yeah. Okay. And so then I have a lot of updates for my meeting with PHA last week. So again, so as you guys saw, Julia stepped down right before the meeting. And so I did do it myself. But if anyone does want to join me for these meetings, I would absolutely love to have that time. We don't have our next time set on the calendar right now, just because, you know, with the holidays that we are planning on trying to meet monthly. So like every other meeting, this one just the timing happens that we have like two over three meetings before we have our next one. So first of all, they just wanted to kind of give an update on their thinking around the working groups. So kind of because they're just wanting to check in on like the pulse of like the mob failure equity work that's happening writ large. So it was a quick reminder, creative disperses is also working on some of the, with the schools, unlike the SRO and some other stuff. And so they're going to kind of be doing their own meetings there. And that's going through its own process. But that because that board, they're kind of moving in different timelines, right? Because that board formed a committee, they thought it doesn't really make sense to run public forums if the committee is getting off the ground, right? Like want to have the leadership coming from this committee and like going through that process. And so the next time that they're meeting with that group is January 12th from five to seven. And they're just been so impressed with this committee thinking that they're doing like a really great work of gathering feedback around kind of these two key questions of like what's our vision for school safety? And second question kind of, I forgot I didn't write it down, but it's like what that's basically around as well. And so the board like has been moving on some of these things. So they don't want to ask the committee to make a recommendation that's already happened or wanting to have a sense of urgency that's going to trip the process up. And so instead will still probably wait until after January 12th to have the first CJAQ meeting because that's the timeline that we're working on now anyway, but that we don't need to kind of coordinate our meetings with that group. Does that all make sense? I'm sorry, I'm trying to do this very quickly. Okay. So then for that first group around if we want to have it be like BIPOC and LGBTQ plus like community city staff and the committee representatives, they said like first just starting with the BIPOC community representative, staff and committee folks. And they're like if it's, and then we're asking about the minimum number of people per group. And they're like, it totally depends on the situation. Like if there's only three people and we get like two of the three people to come like that's amazing. But like if we're having a group with like low income on failure rights and two people come, like that's not probably representatives. That's not going to be great. Yeah. So they do want to start with staff. Okay. So I've got. I see committee members. Yeah. So I have, so we really didn't want it to only be leadership team. So I've sort of randomly selected folks because I mean, I did. I literally put all our names in a pool and I picked some because I think that leadership, you're going to get a wildly different answer. They've been through some equity training. And so I think that I just think it would be best for city staff to just be kind of, and I included most of our folks who handle money because I know that they wanted that to be, you know, like folks who handle money and payroll and hiring, but all kind of touch hiring. The thing is we're such a small group that everyone kind of does everything to be honest with you. So I still haven't reached out to our employees of color because I was waiting on language for Julia. Just going to just send it out there. I have a draft, I'm just going to do it. So if they're offensive, I'm sorry, I'll take that from my staff. I'm going to, it's, you know, and did they want to talk to people who identify as LGBTQ? So they said if they're just trying to do it to get a broader number of folks, like absolutely not wanting to keep it as a BIPOC community first and foremost, like really first kind of conversation. But then they asked me a whole bunch of questions of like, I don't know, I don't work for the staff. So like, why does the city want an LGBTQ plus conversation? You know, like if that's something that is feeling like unequitable or underrepresented, you know, like those are more like, is there a reason why we want to have this conversation?   Wonderful. Thank you. That helps. Yeah. And so then I think Michael and Lauren, I think that should answer some of your questions about the policing stakeholder conversations that they also, Keisha can come to the meeting, Michael, that you, and so, and basically for all of these things too, Keisha was just like, so four names of, I'll get into, I'm sorry, I've said three minutes left. I'm like, well, how quickly can I go and instead of doing a terrible job? But that if there are, if you want to like get in touch, just feel free to email directly and you get directly in touch. So for Michael in particular, like that, that could be helpful for the police review committee. So coming on January 11th for that. But there was one of the really important things around like security of participants, confidentiality. Okay. So they want it to be technologically confidential. So that means like having it be on a Zoom account that's not being publicized and work up, for example, right? Or like the Zoom link is only being shared with people who have been invited to participate in these conversations. That's okay, because it's not a public meeting. It's not considered a public meeting. It's not considered a public meeting, yeah. And so when they, for a lot of these identities that are already like highly visible and creative discourse won't share personal stories unless they get permission, even if it's de-identified. So even if it's without like people's names attached to it, they'll be sharing that out. And so, and that creative discourse will be the holder of all of that information. Like they're kind of taking that responsibility. And so this is a very real concern because I guess in assets, people were putting in public records requests to find out who was participating in these meetings. And so creative discourses like that being kind of that separate party, they're able to really make sure that people's identities are being protected when they're talking about really value, really personal and vulnerable stuff. And so they're all distributing this stipend in ethics. Creative discourse has kind of gotten the funding from ethics to be able to distribute the stipends directly to folks that's not going directly from the city to participate. Well, that's also important that y'all are raising that money and that's grant money for that purpose. And it's not, I think- They need money, right. I think that really negates some of that. Yeah, wonderful. Yeah. And so yeah, so we'll be sharing more like the patterns and the general finding, not these personal stories unless they get explicit permission. And they can't look at these specific stories that are really valuable to the conversation, to the recommendations that are being made. That's great. They were concerned about security around, for if there's more than three people of the city staff who would want to. And so I said, talk to the camera and about that. So I'll be able to- Okay, great. So my understanding of this is that city staff would only participate in the meetings that they wanted to talk directly to city staff, right? They're not, they're not, yeah. I mean, they don't count as members of our general public, their staff. So even if they live in town, they're not gonna participate in those meetings. And I won't be there. This is, you know, like it's not, that's not my job to be there. It's my job to hear what the folks that we entrusted and hired and are the subject matter experts to give us reports on, you know? Yeah. So I feel that no, no pushback on that at all. Cool. Okay, so I think those were all of my things. I just like, boop, boop, boop, boop. I did have a question, Sheena, because I had sent an email, but they had asked for a letter from us of comments. And did you bring that up to her, Mike? I did, and I got some draft language that I just haven't been able to actually read over and then get back to you, Cameron. Okay, thank you. Yep, it's sitting with me right now. No worries, no worries. Other questions on that stuff? So again, you know, the timing is, we're just kind of going with the flow, COVID, number of people, like probably three would be a good minimum, but it is what it is. And then probably no more than 15 on, you know, a Zoom call. So if we do have, you know, a lot of people coming to some, we can do breakouts or something like that or different times. Yeah, but any other questions on moving forward there? It's like, oh my gosh, it's January, we're gonna be doing this very soon. Yeah, Lauren, yeah. Just one question, I think, you know, talking directly with CD and the police review committee, I just, there was definitely like a lot of interest because that group also wants to do stakeholder outreach and like just trying to figure out, you know, how are we not asking too much of the same people or how are we also not co-opting this process to try to, you know, do some of that work but make them complimentary where it makes sense. So I don't think we need, you know, we don't need to go into it because it's 702 tonight but just, you know, in our heads as we're moving forward and we can try to get some clarity directly from them, that group. But just, you know, I think thinking about how those, like where it makes sense to have, you know, a conversation that you could talk about issues, including, you know, police and then what would be, like you're going too far afield of, or like asking too much of our consultants, this is a, you know, CJAC could, you know, run process. So I just want to get that like on a radar because we were sensitive to that in the other committee but also wanting to take advantage of having this like community resource and experts to know what they're doing as that group also bumps into the same like lack of expertise and how to facilitate a really good process. So just flagging that for us to keep an eye on. And that's why they made the request to have Keisha come to the next meeting so we could get some sense of how far can we go, how many questions, you know, do you have to say, okay, you can ask her questions and where are the boundaries going to be? So it'll be very helpful to have her there and there were a couple of other questions but I think that, I can't remember all that I put into that that inquiry with you, but it's good to know that she's willing to come. Yeah, she was like, I don't want to make a practice out of this, I'm not going to say yes to every group that wants to meet with us, but she was like, but I can meet with us for 20 minutes on this date, so I'll go, so yeah. So real quick before we leave, I just want to run through, next meeting is January 7th, Thursday, 5.30. Good. And then I picked up from this conversation next agenda items, which included, you know, checking in about other committees, making sure we're not overtaxing, you know, not only consultants, but also our residents, maybe talk about that, talking about the, what Elizabeth brought to the table today and COVID language, maybe talking about some of that, checking in on fundraising updates and then diving into more of our community or the creative discourse work. That sounds, did I miss anything? We might have, we might not have surveyed work to do right then and there yet. We'll, never mind. Okay. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you, have a good holiday. Thanks, good to see you all, have a good holiday. Cameron, when you set the time for the police review, could you include Keisha? So she gets the link. When is that meeting? January 11th, like 4.30 to 6.30 ish. Yeah, I can forward that to her in the future. You're, Well, Mary says it is. Yeah. Yeah. I just sent it to Keisha. We're good to go. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Take care, everyone. Happy New Year. Oh my God. Yeah. Happy New Year. It's gotta be better. It's gotta be better. I know.