I'm Wanda Quenlin and we're happy to have Susan standing in for Ann tonight who tripped and fell and smashed her knee. So she's going to be home for a while. So Keith. I'm Keith Ghostland and I will be the support person as needed. And welcome to All Things LGBTQ, we are taping on Tuesday, July 12th. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unseeded indigenous land. So this is usually when Ann takes me to far and distant places and tries to depress me. I'm glad you said that Keith, because our first story is quite depressing so that was a good segue. Then we'll move right on to Linda. Mine are pretty depressing also. I thought I'd start with the depressing and then build up to something positive to end on a positive note. How does that sound? Good. So our first story that Ann from her bed told me to research, so I did, is kind of a follow up. So this is a story about an Islamic Sharia court in Nigeria's northern state of Uche, I hope I'm pronouncing that correct, has sentenced three men to death by stoning after convicting them on charges of engaging and homosexuality. The leader of the religious police that arrested them said. So northern Nigeria is predominantly Muslim and the states in the region use these courts to punish residents for crimes ranging from adultery to blasphemy. What I thought was interesting about this is that the men who were arrested admitted they confessed to the crime even though they weren't represented by lawyers and the judge that sentenced them to death said that they could appeal the sentence within 30 days. What's also interesting is that any death penalty passed by the Sharia courts in Nigeria has to be approved by the state governor. And they have an interesting mixture of religious law and constitutional, more constitutional type law. So in most parts of Africa homosexuality is generally viewed as unacceptable. So they have a law that has lengthy prison terms for people convicted of public displays of same sex relationships. And the ruling is also going to shine a spotlight on the place that Islamic law has in a country whose constitution is actually neutral on religion. So last month the Nigerian singer asked the appeals court to declare that the Sharia penal code is unconstitutional. And so a ruling is expected by October. So there's that. And you'll have to come back and report on that. I will have to come back with an update and let's hope it's a good update, right? Let's hope there's something positive to say. So also something a little bit more upbeat. The Caribbean court found recently that anti-sotomy laws were unconstitutional. Now if that doesn't make us all want to get on a boat I don't know what does. So in San Juan the court ruled that a law in Antigua and Barbuda, is that different than Barbados? Barbuda? Is that a place?  So the court found that the selection of an intimate partner is a private and personal choice. And the ruling also said that the Twin Island nation's 1995 sexual offenses act offends the right to liberty, protection of the law, freedom of expression, protection of personal privacy and protection from discrimination on the basis of sex. Another thing that I thought was interesting about this is there was a gay man who worked for Antigua's Ministry of Health and he got together with a local group called Women Against Rape and they partnered together to fight this law and asked that the law would be found unconstitutional.  Meanwhile, the anti-rape group said that their concern over breaches of confidentiality has prevented people in the LGBT community from coming forth seeking AIDS testing or treatment because of this law. So it has this, you know, it's sort of a double whammy that people then won't go get tested or won't get the help that they need. So some of these laws used to be quite common in former British colonies across the Caribbean, but they've been challenged in recent years. So Belize and Trinidad and Tobago have found these laws unconstitutional and there's a lot of other cases in the region that are still pending. So there's an Eastern Caribbean Alliance for Diversity and they welcomed Tuesday's outcome which came in litigation that began in 2020 that challenged invasive and unconstitutional remnants of colonial law. So their group said same sex, consensual intimacy is still criminalized in several Caribbean nations. I used to, you know, like Ann and I, I decided that I wanted to go on a cruise for my 70th birthday. And it was really hard for us, I mean, to stay in the country and not go to Europe was really hard to find a cruise ship that did not go to the Caribbean because we did not want to give them any money or support. Right. Or get arrested. Yeah. So, you know. Yeah. Where'd you end up going? We ended up going to Panama, which, you know. Hold on to that side and we thought when I come up to my last story. Okay. That's a good segue over to you, Lynn. All right. Well, a Texas judge blocks child abuse investigation into two families for gender farming care. We'll have more about that later. And there was a press conference in Chicago where Brittany, Griner's wife, and along with Al Shopton asked for her release, so I don't know, that doesn't look so good. The Biden administration changes Florida's trailer park, charges Florida's trailer park with anti-trans discrimination and we'll have more about that. In Colorado, a trans woman has a body cavity search and we'll have more about that. No, hopefully we won't have more of that, but okay. All right. But Matt, Marjorie Taylor Greene, our favorite person, says the July 4th shooting was designed to ruin mega month, bisexual daughter cuts ties with her dad, who was a state senator and he has been part of the effort to end abortion. Her father is Iowa Senator Adrienne Dickey. She added to her statement that he was also abusive. Good name though. Dickey. Yeah. Hi. Moving on. I'm looking to support my father, Mr. Dickey. Patrice Caller calls for resistance and not corporate pride events and as we know she's the queer co-founder of Black Lives Matter and she cautious to get cutting up in the commercialization of pride. She wants people to join larger resistance groups across the country and I think that's a great idea.  The anti-gay vice president had some nerve going to Ohio Capitol during its pride celebration. He was there to promote Trump's tax cuts. We all love and I know Karine Jean-Pierre, press conference secretary for Biden and she got really kind of irritated with this reporter who kept asking her the same questions over and over again. The question was about the protest at the restaurant where Kavanaugh was having dinner. She threw up her hands and said, I'm done here. Was this the same reporter from Fox that used to give Jen Psaki such a hard time? I don't know. They didn't give the name but oh, you know, I'm done. A Wisconsin man is accused of brutal LGBTQ crime. We'll stand trial, we're on that. King Missouri teen was shot eight times because he was gay. He was shot three times in the chest, three times in his right arm, once in his buttock. Amazingly he survived this and will probably have a very long painful recovery but the perpetrator was caught so we'll have more about that at some point. Michigan Republican gubernatorial candidate wants marriage equality overturned. Ryan Kelly and Tudor Dickson said the Supreme Court ought to revisit the 2015 ruling that provided all Americans with marriage equality.   He says he was failed in adequate defense, gay liberation candidate wins in DC as a right in candidate. It's kind of really interesting. Bruce Major has won the Democratic seat to be the DC delegate to Congress and he was a right in candidate. That's pretty good. So there's hope for us. I know. We could be right in Canada. Pakistan, Megan Rapinoe is awarded the President's Medal of Honor and a gay candidate is banned.  So we'll have more about that. Let's see. And then we have LGB Marine veteran is fighting in Ukraine. Eddie Etney says the suffering of the Ukrainian people compelled him to sign up in fights. And a mass senior-friendly housing project in Hyde Park. Area was targeted by vandals. She stole my story. Uh-oh. There was threatening graffiti. The message was done with black spray paint on the security fence surrounding the building. There have been no arrests to this date. You can, if you have more about that, you can come. I was going to say you can add your color. I don't care. No, no, no. I have the photographs to go with it. Okay. Good. Okay. Let's go. Hawaii Museum revisits their history of gender fluid healers. In the Hawaiian culture, maho refers to someone with a male and female spirit and a mixture of gender traits. I didn't know. Uh, let's see. This is more of a story for later. Uh. Oh, this is kind of interesting. And Justice Brett Kavanaugh, as we know, fled, uh, martins. Snuck out the back door. Yeah. Through the carriage. Yeah. Abortion rights protest is outside a restaurant. Well, you know, we heard that. But Chasin Buttigieg and his husband, Pete, had to sort of defend him. Anyway, uh, shared his viewpoints via Twitter on Friday, leading the secretary, Pete Buttigieg, defending his husband's words on Fox News. And he said, sounds like he just wanted some privacy to make his own dining decisions. Um, alluding to Kavanaugh's recent vote to overturn Roe versus Wade, the 1973 court decision that had guaranteed abortion access based on Americans' right to privacy. I think he just wanted a beer, isn't that? Yeah. He can't, he can't, he can't. Okay. I'm not going there and you can't make me. So this week's trivia question and took a little while, but they got there. On a page of Out in the Mountains, July 1993, article talking about a Vermont Supreme Court decision that just set a U.S. precedent. I got it. What was it? Okay. Such a tease, Keith. Oh, okay. We are. So get out your calendars. You've got events starting with Thursday, July 21st, starting at 7 p.m. at the Lake Maury Inn in Fairleigh. There'll be a cover for this. When I woke 25th anniversary tour uprooted band with Michael Gabacek of Rusted Root. And the reason it's on our list is the $40 entrance fee is to the benefit of the Pride Center of Vermont. Nice. Now, but that's just the beginning of your week because starting Saturday, July 23rd, and running through Saturday, July 30th in White River Junction for your Pride entertainment. Still Pride? Well, they had delayed theirs until the end of July so they weren't competing with everybody else. Okay.  And we've been reporting on it. All of the events are at the Main Street Museum, which by interest is at 58 Bridge Street. So there we are. So on Saturday, the 23rd at 8 p.m. is the Pride Glow Dance Party.   And if you want to know what the movie is, you've got to show up at the museum because they're not announcing it in advance. On Wednesday at 7 p.m., and this would be of interest to you, is the LGBTQIA Plus Book Panel. Authors, critiques. On Thursday at 7 p.m. is the Rainbow Trivia with Sergeant George. Huh. Might have to go just to find out who Sergeant George is. And to win. We could do that. On Friday at 7 p.m. is Quiroqui. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That's dangerous. It's really. Yeah, run from the room. On Saturday, starting at 11 o'clock, is the lineup behind the museum. And then there's the parade. And then following the parade, back at the museum, there's going to be their After Pride Festival, which is the vendors and organizations and everyone out sharing who they are, what they can offer the community, and a chance to spend your hard-earned money. Well, I want to know what the trivia prize is, if there's any. I will have to find out. But also on Saturday the 30th, in the evening, starting at 8 o'clock, this was Babe's Black Meta Gallery and Tattoo Collaboration for the Dark Wave Dance Party. There is no cover. Basic black is incurred. So we've gone from glow to black. Wait till you see the poster that Zach's putting up. That ought to get your interest. Out in the open in Brattaburro, the rural summits are back this year. They are holding one Sunday, August 21st at the Dandy Ram Farm in Monroe, Maine. Are we going? I thought we'd wait until Friday, October 14th to Sunday, October 16th in Halifax, Vermont. Oh, yeah. Now, you've gone in the past, so outright, they're currently doing, they're back-to-back camp outright. So the offices are closed for that, but then they're going to be closed for an additional two weeks. So they won't be back in the offices until August 1st so that they can do staff development, retreats, regeneration, what is our vision, what did we just learn from our campers, what does it mean for the work we're doing. But save the date because on Saturday, October 1st is the fire truck pull.  It is Burlington's fire trucks on Church Street. You get a team of people together and it's attached to a tow rope. How fast can you pull it up the street? I think that's dangerous for me. I was thinking more like sitting at Hellersons and watching this. I can hear Zach laughing in the booth. And one of the things for us to keep in mind, there are ongoing events that are being sponsored by our LGBTQ plus organizations and networks such as Rainbow Umbrella with the Women's Discussion Group and the Book Discussion Group, the collaboration with the Pride Center, the Book Discussion Group, and the Momentum Coffee and Conversation, which happens once a month here in Montpelier, once a month in Burlington. But there are more organizations such as Babes out in the Open Pride Center that are sponsoring recovery groups specifically targeted for our communities. And keep in mind, Queer Connect, the SAFIC Story Hour. Their focus right now is on reader and writer roundtables. You share your poetry. We get to give you feedback on how it impacted us. In that same vein, Pride Center of Vermont is doing the Rooftop Writing Group, the genre Open, and Gay Volleyball. I remember it from when they first started it 30-something years ago. Yep, there we are. And we have out in the Open still doing their Radio Hour and Social Tinkering. Remember, they are now doing the Crystal Queer podcast. And you can get a link to it by going on to the Social Tinkering Facebook page. That's a lot. Is there any Queer Theater? I'm in a show that's not until the fall, but there are some gay characters in the play. We'll be waiting for the update. Tell you more about that. And it is back to you. It is back to me, okay. Let's see if I can find something more uplifting. Okay, here we go. Uplifting? She promised us. I did promise, so now I feel, hmm. Let's start with this. Slovenia. Yeah, so Ann said she's been following this. Slovenia's constitutional court legalizes marriage for all. Wow. It's very exciting. Because discrimination is forbidden under the Constitution, same-sex couples in Slovenia are now equal to heterosexual couples. The Supreme Court ruled the judgment applies with immediate effect. Who would think? The court of Slovenia put same-sex couples on an equal footing with heterocouples. Unequal treatment and marriage and adoption is incompatible with the Constitution's prohibition of discrimination. The Supreme Judge is determined in two judgments about which they inform the public for the first time on Friday. The verdicts had already been handed down on June 16th. Parliament now has six months to amend the applicable laws accordingly. However, the judgments made should already be implemented. This means that in Slovenia, same-sex couples can now marry and under the same conditions that apply to heterosexual couples adopt children. So there's your next vacation. There's our next vacation. There it is. Slovenia, who knew? Where is it? I mean, you know. You want more children? No. Just a visit. Just because it's LGBTQ friendly. Exactly. Exactly. Right? Yeah. Okay. Well, if that doesn't get you up and packing, this might. In Madrid, I've always wanted to go to Madrid. It's a beautiful city. Yes? Been there, Keith? No. I like Barcelona, too. Spain's cabinet approved on Monday a new draft of an LGBTQ rights bill that, if backed by Parliament, will allow people as young as 16 to change their gender freely. And those as young as 12 to do so with a judge's authorization. That's pretty cool. This version of the bill is very similar to the one that was initially presented by the government a year ago, but was held up due to debates within Spain's left-wing ruling coalition. That's interesting. The bill was promoted by a left-wing United We Can party. There was some debate, but they wanted to send a clear message that the lives of LGBTQ persons matter. So, let's see. If it's approved, all Spanish nationals will be able to change their gender and name by simply stating their desire to do so twice within a period of four months. Previously, applicants needed a diagnosis by several doctors of gender dysphoria, which is the psychological condition of feeling a mismatch between one's biological sex and gender identity. So if you're 14 to 16, you can apply for these changes with parental permission. And one change is the inclusion for the right for non-Spanards residing in Spain. I like that. So, see, we could visit. We could have an epiphany and decide we need to change who we are, move to Spain, but the left is not always so good on our issues. There's a bit of a blind spot. And particularly where it comes to recognition of our transgendered communities. It's interesting to me that they would be the hold up. Well, but also one of the things that you need to dive a little deeper in, when particularly you're talking about European political parties, it may see as the Liberal Party or the Conservative Party, but from our perception, it's the reverse. Exactly. So they're saying left, but to them the left, we might view as being the alt-right. So Madrid's Pride Week begins on Friday, so there's either still time. We could get on a plane or a boat. There was this huge feminist demonstration in Barcelona. And you know, a lot of these European countries are so far ahead of us in terms of... And some aren't. It's quite a continuum. Well, I'm going to have a lot of depressing stories. I don't think I'm going to end up with a good one, but you know, anyway, you know, like there's more good news in the world besides the United States than there is here, probably. The Biden administration charges Florida Trailapok with anti-trans discrimination. The Trailapok owner allegedly demanded that the transgender woman present as male to avoid being evicted from her mobile home. No one should have to change how they express their gender identity to maintain housing. Setting restrictions like this is not only unacceptable, it's illegal, said the spokesman for the government. She filed a complaint with HUD alleging the park violated the Fair Housing Act. The landowner responded to the complaint, telling HUD the woman is not free to engage with other tenants about her clothing or transition, and claimed her transition is disruptive to the community. She since moved, I can't imagine why. In Colorado, a trans woman has a body cavity search at the hands of the... He said he didn't want to hear about this again. This is the whole story now. He just had the teaser before. This is the whole story. What did they find is what I want to know in her body cavity. The El Paso Sheriff's Office. When she was arrested at a George Floyd demonstration, Juniper McGinn requested a female deputy search her, but was denied. The female deputy searched her top half, while the male searched her bottom half. When McGinn was made to take a shower, five male deputies left and watched. Texas. Will there be charges? She's suing, so who knows. It's Texas. A Wisconsin man accused of a brutal LBGTQ hate crime will see in trial in February in Wisconsin, and a judge rejected a plea bargain the man had reached with prosecutors. I don't know how common that is, but Shane Nolan is accused of throwing a queer woman Jacenerie Cross into a live fire and attempting to strangle her. He was working as a prison guard at the time. Judge Ross said that accepting a plea agreement would go against public interest and would present safety concerns for the LGBT community. I don't know how often do they turn down plea bargains. It's not that common in the current. Yeah, I don't think it would be.  Justin Horn is running for Jackson County District, and if he wins, he would be the first black rep in the district, and this is in Kansas City. Do you remember Seth MacFarlane and the whole controversy about an episode in Family Guy? It was an episode featuring a trans character in the show. Quagmire's dad viewers were introduced to Ida Davis, a trans character and a Vietnam War hero and was voiced by MacFarlane.  And today, 12 years later, MacFarlane says he wouldn't change a thing. And maybe this is, well, kind of an upbeat last story, but we'll see. You're bumming me out, man. I know. And you thought Nigeria was bad. I don't know. Bring back the stoning in the public square. Okay, you've read my... That's nagging too. The congressman from New York's Hudson Valley is eyeing the midterms as a time of unrest over reproductive freedom and mass shooting and right-wing attacks on LGBTQ people. If anyone stands between Republican House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy being appointed as Speaker, it's Sean Patrick Maloney, Maloney, a 56-year-old gay congressman from New York's Hudson Valley, cheers the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and is asked with keeping Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats as Speaker of the House in second in line to the presidency. The pressure on Maloney is intense as the GOP members of the House seek to thwart President Joe Biden's already imperiled agenda. And if that party gains a majority, it would only become worse. Then there are politically motivated investigations and potential sham impeachment proceedings that a Republican majority could undertake. Where's the upbeat part? I know. The Democrats are already operating with just a slim advantage, meaning a loss of a dozen or so seats could cost them half of the Congress. Some gun violence, the environment, and potential war with Russia at the top of American minds. But for LGBT-clued-plus voters, their marriages, educations, and job opportunities are directly on the line. Maloney wants to look only to the conservative Supreme Court throwing away 50 years of precedent by overturning Roe v. Wade to see where the GOP will lead us, he said, ahead of ruling to overturn it that came down on June 24. Wasn't that upbeat? I have an overnight bag packed, and I'm ready to go at a moment's notice. Madrid. Madrid! That's right. Going to Madrid. No, it's those relatives. Romania. The relatives. No, the relatives in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. There you go. Ann always does Poland. Because Poland is just running things with Poland because, you know, they're terrible. They don't stone you necessarily, but I think you... Pretty close. Yeah, they get a lot of prison time, I think. Okay. So I'm going to start with my usual pitch.  Get out and vote. The primary is Tuesday, August 9th. We have a number of out candidates that are running. For the U.S. Senate running against Peter Welch and the Democratic race is Isaac Evans-Fronz, an openly gay man. We have Brenda Siegel, who is the Democratic candidate for governor, who identifies as bisexual running against Phil Scott, and really would like to debate him about his inaction in responding to the addiction crisis here in the state of Vermont. We also have Michael P. Check, who is running for treasurer, who is endorsed by Beth Pierce, the outgoing treasurer. And then we have Becca Ballant, who is running for U.S. Congress. Becca set, you know, Vermont history by being the first woman and the first out LGBTQ plus leader in the legislature when she became President Pro Tem. However, there's been some interesting things happening of late. First is looking at, oh, maybe some unexpected endorsements. Becca is a person of deep integrity. She is the kind of person we need in Congress. That's why I'm proud to endorse Becca today and look forward to serving with her in Washington, to which Becca responded. I feel like the work I've done here in Vermont supporting working families is something that Bernie noticed. Oh, that was so exciting. Stuff that he really cares about. He's somebody that has deep moral clarity. So the fact that he felt like the message of our campaign was really resonating with him is just, it actually makes me kind of teary. The other unexpected was, we love Vermont and we care deeply about the future of this beautiful state. With so many challenges ahead of us, now is the time to elect courageous leaders who will stand for the rights of all Vermonters. That's why we're proud to put our support behind Becca's campaign for Congress. We love Vermont where we founded Ben and Jerry's 44 years ago. So I'm wondering if they will bring back the Cherry Garcia and start passing it out around us. Or Chunky Monkey. Following up on the story that Linda started about the Pride House in the Hyde Park region of Boston, they responded immediately and said, okay, we're not going to tolerate this. And a lot of the graffiti included the use of Faggot just for the impact. They organized a rally and they had people showing up. The community was really supportive. Well, not only, and with signs, we will not let bullies and cowards stop our work to create safe and welcoming affordable housing for LGBTQ elders. They were holding signs, Boston stands united against hate, being gay is not a choice. Hate is. Love is love. And maybe one of the people holding those signs was Mayor Michelle Wu. So, good going. Doesn't the governor, a lesbian is running for the governor. Yeah, Laura Haley, who is an out lesbian attorney general is running for governor and has been endorsed by numerous. Following up on this, you know, our thinking that we've created a safe environment, safe places for ourselves, our communities. I was part of a webinar with Sage Main last week. And we were Zoom bombed in a Naya friendly way. And they scrambled to really shut it down. And what it made us all talk about afterwards, and this is the elders community is, I thought we were past this. I thought we were able to create safe spaces. And it just reinforces how strong that hate rhetoric has become and the targets that we are now. And following up on that, Massachusetts Senate, they just passed a bill. And I can't, I can't even believe I'm having to say this to repeal their sodomy laws.  I think what we've lost track of was marriage equality. The Oberfeld decision didn't get us everything that over half of our states still have sodomy laws and DOMA statutes on the books. And if as Clarence Thomas wants, they go back and look at those decisions, you know, Lawrence v. Texas, which struck down the sodomy laws, those laws are going to be back in effect. I mean, looking at what we've created here in Vermont is not the same process that had occurred in other states. So bat down the hatches, kids, because we got work to do. Well, we need to vote. Exactly. And educate ourselves and get out there. And I think we've reported on this on previous shows, but after talking about, you know, sodomy laws, I needed an up, right? According to the latest U.S. Census, three New England states rank in the top 10 in the country with the most same-sex couple households. Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island. Maybe Connecticut. Vermont ranks number one. Yes. Massachusetts, Maine. Maine. Three other states in our region fared fairly well. Rhode Island comes in at 15. New Hampshire at 16. And Connecticut at 18. We are becoming the homeland. Come to us. Leave Texas. Come to us. So the answer to the trivia question, and I'm hoping you might share your personal story after we share the results. Out in the mountains, front page, July 1993, Vermont Supreme Court decision. This was a case that had been filed by a lesbian couple where the non-biological parent wanted to petition for recognition as a parent. And at first it was struck down at a lower court level. And the basis for striking it down was that based upon previous law in Vermont was based on the premise of could you or could you not get married. And there had already been a case out of Addison County with an unmarried couple being able to share custody. Our state Supreme Court by unanimous decision said, no, you are indeed the parent you deserve to be recognized as such. And what was part of the precedent is the biological parent did not have to relinquish custody for the other parent to be recognized. So it was a good day here in Vermont and it didn't just end there as you were sharing before our show started. Yeah, I was sharing that I had a similar experience. My daughter was born in 1997 and we had the fabulous Susan Murray as our attorney. And we were petitioning my partner wanted to adopt our daughter and we thought this was madness that we have to apply to adopt our own child. So I was a biological mother and we were supposed to do a home study and have people come in our home and measure our backyard and have a social worker come in. And we had to fill out a survey kind of a thing where we had to say how we met and how long we'd been together and like what our hobbies were. It was very intrusive and I kept thinking, man, I could have gone out to a bar and that person would have more of rights to this child than my partner of many, many years. So we ended up finding ourselves before Judge Belcher at the time in Montpelier, you know, the courthouse there right next to the post office. And we walked in and he asked us if he could hold our daughter who at the time was about three months old. And it was a very scary moment because we didn't know if he was going to leave the room with her or what was going to happen. And we got her all dressed up pretty and girly like, you know, a little pink sweater and bows and things and we handed our child, you know. And he held her for what felt like forever and literally just sort of rubber stamped our application and we didn't have to do any of the home study or any of the things, which is what we were kind of there to petition and to say, you know, we shouldn't have to do any of this, you know. And he said, I want to meet you in my chambers and bring your forms. And Susan Murray had written some sort of scathing thing like how dare you make these women go through this. They're obviously in a relationship. So it was very similar to what you said it reminded me of that. So it was a go Vermont, you know, it's one of those really happy moments that we sometimes forget about some of the rights we do have here in our little state, you know.  You did. But it's we had done legislative change about adoption reform and gradually piece by piece. But knowing that it really does have an impact on the infrastructure takes me back to when you drop the Pebble, you have no idea how far the waves will go. But it also reinforces to me again how important elections are and really keeping track of who it is that's in office and the decisions that are being made. Because the work it took so that that could happen, our opposition could use to take that away from us. So with that. Well, I have one more thing since we have some time, right? Exactly. Time we have. I'm planning on working on on a few events at for rainbow umbrella, which will events that will take place at the senior center. They have the space, the time, the energy, the equipment, you know. Anyway, I want to do a poetry reading in September and there will be more on that later. I also would like to do an LBGT comedy show, which I was going to hit Susan up for help with. And also I'd like to do like a moth story hour like they do on NPR. That's my jam. Yeah. That's my thing to do. Yeah. So we could work on that together. I think you've signed her up for two events. I know. I know. And have it be, you know, maybe every other week or once a month and just have people come in. It doesn't have to be LGBTQ stories, but we want it to be LGBTQ people telling stories, whatever they are. So you're seeing this is not a sort of in time event, but an ongoing. Yes. Oh, I like that. Yes.  The woman who did, she did it for years. Oh, her. What trivia. I can't remember her name. Oh, you're talking about she has one name. Yeah. What's her name? I can picture her. And it's going to come to me later. Yes. Yes. She did Extempo. Extempo. She did Extempo. She also did The World's Worst Song. Did you ever go to that? I went to that. Oh my gosh, Keith. Young girl, get out of my mind. Yes. At the Old Labor Hall. Yeah. You sign up to sing the worst song that you are aware of. So they do like, you know, that Con Boy from the 70s.   And people get up and they win awards. And it's a toilet seat. I'm pulling into trauma right now. It's a toilet seat is the prize. Yeah. What was, oh, she was great. I'm going to think of her name later. So that kind of event. And, you know, after time it'll gain momentum and people will come and tell stories. So that's what I'd like to be working on. Lovejoy. Is that it? Lovejoy. Is that right? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Fabulous person. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Extempo. She also had a karaoke. So back to the Gay Eoki or whatever it was. Quirioke. Quirioke. And then you go to, um, in Plainfield, um, positive piehead. Yeah. Now that would be fun at the senior center. Yeah. You could get some old songs. You could get some disco hits from the 70s for the LGBT crowd. That's another thing we could do. But you could also do Frank Sinatra and some older stuff. Yeah. That would be super fun. I'm thinking doing it at the senior centers with our memory deficits. Who knows what lyrics we're going to come up with. Well, you know, that's one of those things. You might remember a song from the 50s, but not what you had for breakfast. It could, you know. Well, no, I was thinking that, I was thinking you got a prize for your lyrics with the closest to what, what it truly is. Yeah. I love that. That's great.  I mean, even though we're using the senior center, we can be. It's more of a community event. It's more of a community event. To try to bring people together. Of LGBT community events. Yeah. Yeah. You know, where there is the space. I love that.  So it seems like a perfect place to do all those kind of stuff. Yeah. All righty. All righty. So on that note, as you know, we resist.


Green Mountain Support Services to empower neighbors with disabilities to be home in the community. Major support also includes Washington County Mental Health where hope and support come together. Hello and welcome to this holiday year-end edition, this year-end edition, 2019 of Ableton on Air. I'm Lauren Seiler. I'm Arlene Seiler. And also today I'm celebrating my 25th anniversary of being a journalist and it's been great doing that for so many years for so many good people. I would like, before we begin this holiday year-end edition of Ableton on Air, I just would like to say thank you to our sponsors, Washington County Mental Health and Green Mountain Support Services for the 2019 year. We begin with this clip 25 years ago. I did a show on Bronx Net Community Access television on cable vision in the Bronx called Special People Special Issues. And in 2010, I had the pleasure of going to New York City's Comic-Con at the Javits Center and interviewing Lou Ferrigno, 1970's Incredible Hope. Let's take a look at this clip from the Incredible Hope. Let's take a look at this. Now let's take a look at a great interview that my crew and I had the opportunity to interview some editors, writers, editors and writers of comic books to find out about heroes of the special needs kind. Daredevil, Professor X and the like at Comic-Con, New York City. Let's take a look and listen to some great advice also from Lou Ferrigno, the former Incredible Hulk. Let's take a look at this great interview. What is one way for kids to think that they're heroes despite it? Well, the best thing you could do is that sometimes you have this function of family. The best thing you could do is that learn to deal with your fears. If you have any fears, think about those fears because whatever you have a passion for, stick with the passion that will help you deal with the fears. And you end up being the hero to yourself and hero to others. No matter what you look like, no matter what kind of disability you have. And remember one thing, everyone is handicapped one way or another. When I was young I had dreamed and envisioned I used to be Hulk in Superman comics. I was fascinated with power and I discovered bodybuilding. It was like a springboard for me because I learned about fitness, learned to be better friends with my body, gave me admiration and self-confidence to be able to achieve my goal. This year in 2019, Ableton on Air in January had the pleasure of being interviewed by WCAX television. Let's take a look at this clip of our show, Ableton on Air, being interviewed by WCAX. Let's take a look at this. A lot of people told me, no, you can't do that, it wouldn't work, such and such. And 25 years later, we're here. Fighting stereotypes his entire life. A journalist and his wife produced a television show, Ableton on Air. Channel 3's Nelliana Ferraro caught up with a TV producer to learn how he's overcoming obstacles. Lawrence Seiler has been producing Ableton on Air for six years. The show focuses on the abilities of people with special needs and guests discuss important issues for their community, like getting jobs and transportation. I wanted to do stories about us, people with challenges. He's had challenges himself. As Seiler describes it, he deals with cerebral palsy, a neurological disorder that affects muscle coordination. He doesn't suffer from it. I just roll with it and we keep going. He says people have doubted his capabilities, only seeing the cerebral palsy. Disability, this means not. Ability, when you put it together, means you can't do anything. People with special needs can do lots of things. Stigma has not stopped Seiler or his wife for that matter. She works to overcome her own challenges, having a learning disability, and being a survivor of the 9-11 terrorist attacks in New York City. Running down 68 flights and surviving that whole thing. He says disability goes out the window when they're on set.  He just really has a great idea of what he wants to have done. Executive director Rob Chapman says Seiler works hard and Orca Media is glad to help. Well, it's part of our mission. It's public access for anybody in our community who wants to produce a show, obviously, can come here. For other people with special needs, Seiler has some advice. Challenge yourself. If you would like to know more about Orca Media or Lawrence's show, head to our website, wcax.com. In Montpelier, Nelliana Ferraro, Channel 3 News. Look at this clip from GMSS Nursing. That you go through being and working with people with developmental disabilities. Or, you know, in this case, it might be dual-diagnosed. So can you explain some of that? Sure. Yeah, so Green Mountain Support Services has a lot of different training opportunities, not just for nurses, but right across the board for everyone. We have a class that we take called Therapeutic Options with our great staff, Marilyn Carter, who teaches that, and she basically talks about approaches to use with individuals with developmental disabilities. It might be a therapeutic communication technique. It might be communication strategies, just to sort of make the person that does not have as much experience working with someone with developmental disabilities a little easier. Just things that, you know, we've all picked up on in the past, things of that nature. I've also been offered through the agency to do a death doula certificate course through the University of Vermont. Say that again? It's called a death doula course. What exactly is that? So that actually helps support the person who is in the middle of end-of-life care, just helps them and supports them with that process and working with them to sort of make that process easier. It's called death doula. Death doula. So doula is a Greek word. It basically means, I think it's helper or something along those lines. So it basically assists someone in their end-of-life dying process. This year we had a pleasure interviewing city council member, Donna Bate, with Mayor Anne Watson. Off-air you gave me a long piece of paper to read and that was about the infrastructure of Montpelier and the goals of the city of Montpelier. Can you explain a little bit about that? Sure. The city recently did a self-evaluation, had a consulting firm help us figure out what we needed to be doing as a city to be making sure that our public facilities and services were accessible to people with a variety of disabilities. So the document that came back was a transition plan for us that was very detailed and had a lot of very specific recommendations about how the city can be doing better, like what kind of infrastructure we would be needing to be more fully accessible. The infrastructure would be cracks in the sidewalk, buildings being fixed. Yeah, it included things like having van accessible parking spaces and having tactile exit signs and things like that. Well, as far as infrastructure, there's something in buildings called the grandfather clause, which means that the building is old and old, they don't necessarily need a ramp or need to be accessible, how can the city infrastructure fix those things or work on fixing that? I was going to say there's a difference between being required to and doing it. So you can do it, but you may not be legally required if you're in a historical building. I think the city's intention is to make things accessible no matter how old they are. It may mean that not every building has an elevator, but there are services you can provide downstairs to make sure the public can at least be connected to any services upstairs they don't already have. Brett Campbell, PhD, Alzheimer's. We're talking Alzheimer's today and tell us a little bit about, well, what is the definition of Alzheimer's disease and how your family dealt with it? First of all, with the doctor, that's a PhD in a totally different field, so I'm not any sort of medical expert on Alzheimer's. My experience with it is having been the primary caretaker, caregiver for my mother for the last year and a half of her life while I was watching her succumb to the disease. It's a disease that's eating away at your brain. How so? Well, someone showed me one time three scans of brains and it was color and the red areas showed the active areas in the brain. And with a child, you had almost kind of a Swiss cheese thing going on, different areas of the brain active. As we grow into adulthood, those red areas expand. The third image was the brain of someone suffering Alzheimer's and it was very much like the child's brain of the smaller. The only difference being those are just going to get smaller. And that was when I realized, when I saw that, that my mother had always been very immaculate in terms of taking care of the house and such and now she was leaving a lot of crumbs behind and we had an ant infestation. And I would try to talk with her about, let me get her to remember to put it, and when I saw those scans, it made me realize she's all done learning. She's all done learning and changing behaviors. And so I had to just learn that I had to work a little harder and be more accepting of her limitations. This year we had the pleasure of, Green Mountain Support Services had the pleasure of sponsoring our program. Let's take a break and look at their public service announcement. Here is Green Mountain Support Services. Do you know an elderly person who doesn't need round-the-clock nursing care but would benefit from companionship and assistance to get the most out of community, family and friends? Green Mountain Support Services Adult Family Care Program is looking to serve elderly individuals who may need assistance, working with homeowners to become shared living providers. To find out if this is right for you, go to gmssi.org or call<PHONE_NUMBER>. This year we also had the pleasure of interviewing Zachary Hughes from Washington County Mental Health. Let's take a look at his interview. We're used to promote independent living to the best of people's abilities, with mental illness, and so on. Okay. For those that don't know what's the difference between a mental illness and a mental challenge, is there a difference? I think it's a name change, a name difference. So it'd be like me saying I have a disability versus handicap. Okay. What are some of the new things that are happening with Washington Mental Health? Right now, some of the new things I'm aware of right now is that we're working on a couple of projects. One of them is that we're working on tiny houses in Barrie. People would live in these tiny houses, and peers would be part of that. Over in my program. What do you mean by tiny houses? Well, tiny houses are, I don't know if you're aware of it, but they're these small houses that are more economical. Then break into housing. So we could take a look at Green Mountain Support, Josh Schmidt, Direct Care Services. A direct support professional, and what do they do? Okay, yeah. So a direct support professional is the staff, it's the person that provides that direct support, well, because it's a direct support professional, provides that direct support to the person that we provide services for, whether it be someone with an intellectual disability, a brain injury, or just a physical disability. And what they do is, their job is as unique and different as the people we provide services for. So there's not, the only thing they all have in common is that they make sure that the person they're providing services for has access to the same things in their neighborhood and community as anybody else would. For example? Well, for example, if someone has a job and needs the help of a direct support professional, if someone is going shopping, anything that anyone would do that you and I would do in the community and somebody would still need help to access that through direct support professional, that's what they would do. Now, what is some do's and don'ts of a direct support professional? Ultimately, what they do is that keeping in mind, too, is that a direct support professional's job, as I say, is to be there and to advocate and to make sure that person can access. They are very much like, I'd put it this way, think about it, and this is what Joseph Macbeth, who is the executive director of the National Alliance for Direct Support Professionals, has done an analogy where a direct support professional is like the Sherpa helping somebody climb Mount Everest. When somebody succeeds in climbing up Mount Everest, the Sherpas are not in the picture. They are behind that. They are there to make sure the person is able to succeed in their goals, in their hopes, in their dreams. That's what a direct support professional does. A direct support professional is not a babysitter. A direct support professional is someone who is there to advocate, to assist, and to ensure that people are making good decisions. To go through down street community housing development over on Taylor Street, let's take a look at the housing development and the bus depot. Let's take a look at this. I'm calling the phone. How is the more important of today's event behind this beautiful house? The importance is that we're building a transit center that's going to be accessible and usable by everybody, and we're building housing that's needed desperately in downtown Montpelier. It's an energy efficiency building. No fossil fuels are going to be used to heat it. And it's about building our strong downtown community. The thing that's so inspiring to me is that there's one obstacle after another that all the folks who had this vision had overcome. And they did. And they did by working together. And it is an example of the power of cooperation and persistence. So this is a special day where there's a lot to celebrate. And this transit center in this housing is going to be available for generations. So congratulations to all who played a role. Let's take a look at special needs lawyer Jim Cafferty. I'm going to describe what we do in our office as special needs planning, which is primarily a state and future planning for Vermont families that are affected by disabilities in some way. Okay. Now, so that runs the gamut. It can go... It does. What classifies in terms of your law practice, what classifies what a disability is, the types of disabilities, because there's a whole lot of fraud out there that people, you know, as far as disabilities are concerned. So in our office, we're primarily concerned, or primarily we're working on planning. And so we don't do social security claims that would address the issues of fraud, possible fraud that you've mentioned. But primarily what we're doing is a state planning for families and families in which there is a person with a disability. And as you know, there's a wide spectrum of needs and abilities, and so our planning is tailored to the needs of that individual family. Typically, that includes all of the traditional estate planning, wills and revocable trusts, health care directives for family members, and then also a special needs trust. By the way, Abledon Arnair, before we get to the next clip, would like to say special congratulations to Kirk, Postal Weight of Washington County Mental Health and his new job at Rutland Hospital. But he was on, Kirk Postal Weight was on, with Washington County Mental Health, talking about the Zero Suicide Program. Let's take a look at this clip. The mission statement, you know, basically of Washington County Mental Health is the promotion of recovery, self-determination, and resilience in the people that we serve, and the inclusion of everyone in the community together, kind of being connected and not having people, you know, have to live kind of on the outskirts of the community. We really promote a lot of connection and just people, you know, seeing each other as, you know, one part of one big community. Okay. The Zero Suicide Project, which is both of your area, what is the purpose of that? And I know suicide is a huge thing. It's a two-part question. And the second part is I know that suicide is a huge thing, especially how media plays a role in educating people about suicide. So pros and cons to that particular area. Yeah, yeah. We're the media person. So we started our Zero Suicide Project back in August of 2018. 18 or 19, 18. Mm-hmm. So last year, yeah. So not quite a year ago. And what our mission and goal in promoting Zero Suicide is related to helping make sure that everyone has access to treatment when they are feeling suicidal and are feeling despondent and in crisis. So we're wanting to promote screening for folks, so asking questions of folks to identify if they are feeling suicidal, have suicidal thoughts, and then promoting treatment specific related to decreasing suicidal ideation and intention and plan, and helping make sure that we have the best services possible for communities when the community has experienced a loss or a death related to suicide. Zero Suicide itself is a national initiative and they are promoting wanting to have zero suicide, so no deaths by suicide would be our goal. And so that's what our mission of our little committee is. And Mary Moulton, our executive director, has signed on passionately to say we want to support this project and we want to get the word out about this project. And in terms of how the media plays out, there's been many TV programs both past, present, and future. Prime example, 1950s, I love Lucy, for example. She put on a Superman cape, pretending she was Superman. There's George Reeves and Superman jumps out the window. That type of thing. But suicide is not a laughing matter. That's the point with your project and to educate. When you take your life, you take your life. Some religions frown on suicide. It's all through the Bible. But you guys educate. So go ahead in terms of how does the media really do that when educating, you know, because it's not a laughing matter. So I think a couple of things. One thing that we're promoting is we want people to know, first of all, that Washington County Mental Health has an emergency service number 24 hours a day, seven days a week that folks can access. Research shows asking people questions related to are you feeling suicidal? Or do you have suicidal thoughts that does not increase a person's suicidal ideation, nor can I sort of put that idea in somebody's head. So I think sometimes those are myths that get promoted of. We just shouldn't ask about it because otherwise we'll make the person think it. And much more reasonable is that the person is already having those thoughts isolated and alone. And we want to decrease the stigma related to mental health and also related to suicidal ideation and increase connection. Describe ideation in this case. Yes, thoughts. So I'm thinking about suicide. So in my world in emergency services we break things related to suicide into three categories. So I have suicidal thoughts. But I'm not thinking about acting on those. I just think about it. Some folks are experiencing thoughts and they have plans. And some folks have thoughts, plans and have acted on those plans. So we look at that as kind of a continuum and where is the person at. And we want to be able to intervene at each of those places to keep people alive and offer treatment and connection. Now let's take another break and listen to Green Mountain Support Services public service announcement. Let's take a look at this public service announcement. I've been a service coordinator with Green Mountain Support Services for two years. It is a wonderful job. I go home at the end of the day and I feel like I have helped someone or made someone's day just by being able to go out and visit them and help them get what they need to be living in a home. The best has made me have the ability to become more independent and it has opened up a whole new world for me really. And the more I found out about this program, the more I liked it. I'm happy. I wasn't happy before. I am now. Now let's take a look at Washington County Mental Health's interview with Mindy Sprague on art and wellness. Let's take a look at this clip. On this topic, we will focus on art and people with special needs. Recently, we had Abel Danoneer have the opportunity to go to the Berry Opera House and look at the art exhibit that was presented by Washington County Mental Health and many other sponsors. Let's take a look at that art exhibit. All the arts I did. What type of art have you done? Like the mask. Is this one that a real face of mine did I did? Yeah, we're going to see pieces of it in the video. And the one that I did with the real face, that mask one I did, was awesome. I like that. So why did you do masks? Was there a reason behind it? Why did you want to do the mask instead of a regular painting? You want to add to that? What was the reason behind it? The art show that we are doing at the Berry Opera House right now. It's going on until the 29th of July. The original theme was a mask. To do masks. I try and introduce different types of art. Oh, you're the art teacher. Well, I'm one of them. I try and introduce a lot of different things for Mindy to try. And one day we were working with plaster and pregnated gauze. And that's what pregnated gauze. Which is what? It's gauze that has plaster Paris inside of it.  Mindy? Mindy, yes. Or anybody who has it done.  So what you do with this gauze, it's got plaster in it, you dip it in water, and then you smooth it on their face. And their face doesn't burn while it's happening? No, that's why you have the Vaseline on it. It creates a barrier between the plaster and their face. I had the pleasure of interviewing Alexis Carriac from Washington County Mental Health, talking about her art, her wellness, and the reason why she paints and the type of objects that she paints. Let's take a look at this interview. I'm an artist. What type of art do you do? Fine art, female nude, interiors, florals, and my work is available online. How do you use your art? Everybody has challenges. But how do you use your art to go past your disability? I was thinking about that this morning, and I have to say that the need, the impulse, the surge of needing to paint puts me in a place that makes me able to see beyond the troubles. Working in the field of special needs takes a lot of care and help and care when it comes to working with special needs. It's extremely important for a living wage when you're working with people with special needs. Yesterday, I had the pleasure, able to learn and have the pleasure of interviewing Jerry Smith, the producer of a documentary out of the University of Minnesota called Involvable about the direct care worker shortage when working with people with special needs. Let's take a look at this trailer and interview with Jerry Smith. Let's take a look at this. Thank you. Walter, he's very outgoing and he loves to get out into the community and socialize and we go shopping. This is a classic. And he loves rock and roll. Walter has many gifts and Walter has cerebral palsy. He needs support in getting around and meeting people in his community and he also needs assistance at home with things like fixing meals and getting dressed, budgeting and shopping. Through state and federal programs, Walter and others with intellectual and developmental disabilities have professional staff to provide critically needed support. I tell you what, seeing his confidence and his self-esteem really sore has been just fabulous. So explain to me what's happening today and your premise behind Involvable. I'm here today at the Savoy Theatre in Mount Peeler, Vermont and I've been invited by a number of provider organizations supporting people with disabilities to talk about this film that we created called Invaluable. Invaluable is about the unrecognized, undervalued and underpaid profession of direct support. Explain a little bit about the field of direct support professionals and why they are underpaid and undervalued. Sure. We have such an interesting history in this country. There was a time when people that had the label of intellectual disability received no services at all or they lived in an institution which was horrible and dehumanizing and we changed that. We closed most of our institutions and provided supports in the community where people could have the same great life as anybody else could have but that requires having support and that support as we've defined it is a unique support. It's not just caretaking. It's somebody who can provide relationships in the community. Somebody who can provide help in getting a job, maintaining relationships in addition to the supports that we all need in just taking care of our lives and that profession, that title is called direct support professional. It's a very complex title. It changes with each person that you support. It requires a tremendous amount of skill, a lot of fortitude, a lot of training and for all of that you would think that this job pays about $50,000 a year which it deserves. It absolutely does. But for some reason it's considered entry level work and the average wages are around $11 an hour which is criminal. I would like to thank Orca Media and our sponsors Washington County Mental Health and Green Mountain Support Services for a great 2019. Thank you guys for sponsoring and also I would like to thank Gary Axelbank of ThisIsTheBronx.com and Bronx Talk on BronxNet as The Bronx Buzz for this wonderful Christmas greeting, holiday greeting and thank you again Gary. And this puts an end to this edition of Abledon Air. I'm Lauren Siler. See you in 2020. Hi there, it's Gary Axelbank from This Is The Bronx TV and Bronx Talk and The Bronx Buzz on the television. I want to wish Larry Siler and all my good buddies from Abledon Air a very happy holiday and a happy new year because you know you got to keep fighting for what's right and that's what Larry has done since I've known him for years and years before just now. So anyway, all the best. Everybody have a wonderful, beautiful holiday and let's make 2020 even better in the next few days. Major support for Abledon Air Green Mountain Support Services to empower neighbors with disabilities to be home in the community. Major support also includes Washington County Mental Health where hope and support come together.


Good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in 2017 of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. Can you remind everyone to switch mobile phones and other devices to silent as they may interfere with broadcasting? Our first agenda item today is a decision to take agenda item 4 in private. Is that agreed? Thank you very much. Our second item today is proposed cross-party groups, and we'll take evidence from the proposed groups this morning. The first one is the proposed cross-party group on Brexit. Welcome to Tavish Scott MSP this morning. Tavish is the proposed deputy convener of the group, and I'd invite you to make an opening statement. The intention of our group is to create, above all, a forum for debate and lively interpretation of the on-going political issue, which is going to govern our lives, I suspect, for the remainder of this Parliament. The strength of our proposal, I hope, for your committee is that not only is it cross-party, but it also governs both sides of those who argued and voted on this matter as well. That is both helpful and constructive. What we want to do with our group is to make sure that, out with the formal structures of parliamentary committees both in this place and down at Westminster, there is a genuine forum to bring together people who maybe haven't had their view heard before. We're going to do that in a variety of different ways, subject to your committee approving the formation of our cross-party group. For the avoidance of doubt, we haven't had enough time yet to invite and pull in external members, but we certainly plan to do that as well. That will be very much part of our plans for the future. Thank you very much. Can I invite any questions from the committee? I do believe that there is a real need for a group of this nature, because we are moving into new territory. As you indicate in the report, it is a watchdog, and I think that that is important. My question is engagement. There is a very broad church out there of individual organisations that you might need to try and capture. How are you planning to try and do that in a reasonable timescale, and how will you engage with them effectively? It's a very fair question. I'm not sure that we've totally worked that out yet. I suspect that we'll be governed by the ability to react or to attempt to judge the process that we all believe to be under way now. For example, we are hoping to bring to Edinburgh, and we're not wedded on just having this in Edinburgh either, but to bring to Edinburgh a number of speakers from different aspects of not only Scottish life, but also international life as well. The four of us who get together, I dare say it, if you see any conspiracy, it's eight o'clock on a Wednesday morning when we're having breakfast together. That's when all the things are decided. If you want to intervene in that, please feel welcome to come along. The serious point is that by bringing people from out to with Scotland who bring an international perspective to a meeting or to a discussion hosted by an independent chairperson of some description, which is how we plan to develop this, we hope to capture that very point. I mean, we've had some of the breakfast briefings that Spice have put together recently when they've been discussing the breakfast issues, and they've been extremely well attended, which is very encouraging. Exactly. And I do think that you will get a good turnout at all your meetings as well. Well, thank you. I think that's fair. I also think that there's an onus on us just to raise the bar a bit. I mean, we all sit round many committee tables and it is what it is, as Daniel Johnson and I were reflecting on education yesterday. But we've got a job to do in terms of bringing a calibre of person to a meeting, which we hope will provide interest not only for elected members but also for a wider audience. Believe me, we crossed the divide in terms—well, I shouldn't call it a divide, that's a very pejorative term—but we crossed the Brexit debate in terms of those who believe for and those who are remainers. So, we'll keep it that way too. Thank you. Thank you. Can I bring in Mr Harvey? Thanks very much. Good morning. Two questions. One is on the first of the three bullet points on the group's purpose to act as a watchdog over the Brexit process. I wonder if you could just say how you feel that will connect or relate to the committee's responsibility, how they overlap and what the balance of activities will be there. The second question is on the third point. To make contact with other European countries and institutions to examine the best way forward for Scotland and the UK post-Brexit, I recognise and value the fact that you've said that there are people who voted and campaigned for yes and no within that. I wonder whether there's an implication in point 3 and whether it's a deliberate implication that the group is restricted to those who accept that Brexit is happening and that Scotland's going along with that. How do you intend to relate to or reflect the views of those who don't accept that Scotland should be taken out of the European Union? Very fair question, Mr Harvey. I think it's a subtle point, the third one, rather than a hard point. Hard, soft Brexit, this is a soft point rather than a hard point. I wouldn't overinterpret it because for those of us who campaigned for Scotland and the United Kingdom to remain within the EU, we're never going to allow that to become a hard interpretation of how our cross-party group would operate. Our view would very strongly be to make sure that, again, we cover, as I answered before, both aspects of what could happen in the future, and I think that's very important. Is that sloppily worded yes? Could it have been worded a little less pejoratively yes? On your first point, in no way would we seek to cut across a parliamentary committee. We won't have the resources to do it anyway. I have just sat upstairs going through 108 pages of Stephen Henry's latest epistle on Brexit and all that it means to Scotland, and it's very good. As you would expect with Stephen Henry, it's extremely well written, and we simply won't have the resources, never mind the secretary, out to do that. So, as Alex Neil and I have slightly observed, watched or maybe slightly too strong a word again, probably more Labrador than Rottweiler on that one. I want to ask about the proposed membership of the group, but you were saying that you were short of time before this was submitted, which was 30 November. We've now had a month and a half since then, so have you explored who you would be inviting to be non-MSP members of the group? Perhaps you could explain how you're going to source that membership? We haven't, for the simple reason that we thought until the cross-party group was set up. There wasn't a lot of point in all of us pushing at any further. Once we're under way, we will have an open invitation on this matter to wider organisations and groups. We're also seeking, as was most cross-party groups, to establish a secretariat that I would be quite open about. It's not being as straightforward as we would have liked. It's tricky to get the right kind of group, a sorry organisation, who would service this group. Once we do that, we'll have some administrative firepower, as well as we hope some intellectual firepower. There are no caveats on that in terms of who could be a member, and we'll be very open. We'll be happy to furnish the committee with a letter indicating how we plan to proceed on that subject, of course, to your agreement. As a follow-on from that, because I was going to ask about secretariat, you're talking about bringing international speakers to the group, but there's no indication of how that would be financed on your application? No indeed. That's where our secretariat is important, because we hope to have an organisation who will see the benefits of exactly that, of frankly paying the travel expenses of bringing people to Edinburgh to create the debate and allow the debate to happen. As you all know, we can't do that out of thin air, so we need to do that, but again, we'll be happy to write to you with that detail. Can I bring Mr Scott? Do you have a secretariat in mind? We do, but if you'll forgive me, Mr Scott, I'm not at liberty to say who it is, because as the Minister would say if I was a Minister, discussions are at an advanced stage. We'll be happy to provide details when we can, but discussions are on the way. How do you propose to contribute to the Brexit process here in Scotland? How do you feel into whom?  Or is there going to be another sense of purpose for the group? The view of the four of us who got together to discuss that is that the best role we can play is to be a forum. The debate at times has been too low, the debate hasn't been deep enough, although I think the European Committee has done a Stephen Emery's report, which you'll see published in a few weeks' time, is very strong on analysis. I think I'm going to call it a running commentary coming out of Governments all over Europe at the moment. We want to just be part of that and make sure there's a very clear focus on Scotland, but make sure there's a different perspective on Scotland as well. We hope to bring people in who will provide that different perspective and create a genuine forum where colleagues from right across politics and people from out to with politics can think about and question it. This is probably the biggest decision, or it's the biggest set of circumstances we're all going to have to deal with in our lives, and we hope to add a little bit to that. Both as a declaration of interest in terms of context for my question. As you are aware, I've held a few discussions looking at the possibility of setting a cross-party group on Europe, the purpose of which would be to look more broadly about the interaction between Scotland and Europe beyond the EU and also looking at social and cultural elements of Europe and European institutions beyond the EU. Do you think that this group would be overlap, but do you think that those two groups could co-exist, or do you think that it would be problematic to have two groups co-existing, or if a CPG in Europe were to be proposed? I wouldn't wish to prejudge where you'd wish to take that, Mr Johnson, although that strikes me as a very wide remit. I think ours is going to be, if I may say so, pretty strong around politics. The people we want to have come and create the forum and the discussion are going to be broadly in the political sphere, they're going to come from industry, they're going to come from different backgrounds as well, but they're still going to be, after all, talking about the ongoing political process that is going to be what we're all going to go through for the next number of years. I think that's where our focus is going to be. If your group, and your much wider and therefore probably much more long-term constructive approach, is around the future of the arts, the future of culture, the much wider perspective on Europe, I don't think that's by definition a good thing to do. I think ours is going to be pretty strong on the politics of what we're all dealing with, and we hope to bring some interesting people to engage in that. Can I also just, you mentioned that there have been some issues around finding a secretariat. Are those issues sort of potentially relevant and worth drawing to the attention of the committee? Again, we'd be happy to write to the committee or to the clerks once we've got that ironed out. All cross-party groups are challenged by the need to have a secretariat depending on the scale of the activities they want to undertake. I was at the Tibet cross-party group last night, which operates on a very small and dedicated group of people who just do it because they love it and because they care passionately about it. That's different from bringing people into Edinburgh in order to create the kind of forums we want. We've got to create, frankly, some money to do that in order that people can pay travel expenses. That's simply the process that we're going through at the moment. Can I just ask—obviously, we have a number of CPJs established in the Parliament, many of whom will be considering the impact of Brexit on their particular area of interest. Have you thought about how your CPJ might interact with other CPJs in the Parliament so that there's not a duplication of effort in working joint meetings with other committees? It's a very fair point, convener. Short answers know that we haven't considered that, but we'd be happy to do that. I'm happy to make sure that we've achieved the objective that you've just pointed out. Okay. We will be considering your application at agenda item 3. You'll be informed of our decision as quickly as possible. Can I just say, as a matter for all CPJs, that the secretary is a decision made by the CPJ members once they're established? Autonomously, and that the secretary act would normally be a member of a CPJ, and also that, when new members do come on board, the clerk should be informed within 30 days of that process. That's just a timely reminder for all CPJs. I thank Mr Scott for his attendance this morning, and I'm sure that our decision will be conveyed to you as quickly as possible. I suspend just shortly while we change witnesses. The second group for the committee's consideration is a proposed CPG on improving Scotland's health 2021 and beyond. I would like to welcome Kenneth Gibson, MSP, who is the proposed co-convenier of the group to the committee this morning, and to invite Mr Gibson to make an opening statement. I thank you very much, convener. I wasn't really going to say much. I think it's, as they say, basically all there on the side of the tin, so to speak. The purpose of improving Scotland's health 2021 is primarily to look at how we can, as it says, try and improve people's health, particularly in the areas of reducing tobacco usage, alcohol misuse and also looking at the obesity epidemic. I'm delighted by the fact that it truly is a cross-party group in that all five parties represent in the Parliament of Members. As you've said, there's a joint convenership between myself and Jenny Marra, and we'll alternate convenership with the meetings. We'll meet four times a year. Already, we've had substantial interest from outside the Parliament. We've got some 20 organisations who've already joined the cross-party group, subject to being approved, of course. We've also started looking at the kind of agenda that we would have over the next year. We're quite clear that we want to set goals that can be achieved and that we can benchmark year by year. Of course, like other cross-party groups, we would hope to try and raise the profile of the group by not only debates in the Parliament and questions, but we also want to full engage with the Scottish Government by having, for example, members of the health team come and present and answer our questions at various meetings. That really is it. Of course, the Secretary of State has been provided jointly by Ash Scotland and Alcohol Focus Scotland, and there is no membership fee for anyone to join in. I would encourage any MSPs on this committee if it's agreed that this cross-party group should be formed to join and participate in it. Thank you very much. Can I invite any questions from members? Thank you very much. It's a very interesting group. The particular issues that you propose to focus on health harm caused by alcohol, tobacco, poor diet and obesity predominantly focus on areas where there are commercial vested interests from industries. I wonder whether you're intentionally keeping it to those kinds of issues rather than wider environmental or lifestyle factors where that's not so much of a barrier. Also, if that's the case, what kind of thought you've given to any overlap or connection to the cross-party group on food as well? We've not put any barriers up in terms of what we wanted to achieve. I certainly believe that there will be room for co-operation with other cross-party groups, as conveners of the cross-party group on epilepsy. For example, we've had joint meetings in the last part with the cross-party group on mental health, so I'd be quite happy to engage with all sorts of organisations. One thing that we've been very strict about is membership restrictions in terms of the tobacco industry and lobbyists for the tobacco industry. We're having a discussion at our next meeting about our view on alcohol. For example, I'm against the Scottish Whiskey Association being associated with the group because of its obvious opposition to minimum-unit pricing. Others might have a different view on that, but we're not there to argue for certain aspects of industry. What we're trying to do is to try and pool various organisations together to see how we can work with the Scottish Government and various organisations of third sector and other to try and tackle some of these huge societal impacts. We're looking for social levers for change, so the group is trying to have a broad remit. In 1999, I formed the cross-party group on tobacco control. That became the cross-party group on trying to remember the exact name of it when Willie Rennie was the convener. I convened it for nine years, and he took it over for four years. It wasn't tobacco control, it was tobacco in health, I believe. We think that there is so much linkage in terms of addiction between tobacco and alcohol, for example, that it would be wise to link the two and have a more of an umbrella organisation. That seems to have resonated with the third sector, which is why already at the first meeting we had 20 organisations who wished to participate. For information, they include organisations, for example, from Obesity Action Scotland to the British Heart Foundation, Macmillan Cancer Support, Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs, the University of Glasgow Royal College of Physicians. Loads of different organisations from a wide spectrum are interested in participating in this group. I can understand exactly why you would be cautious about or hostile to the idea of tobacco industry lobbyists being involved as external members, for example. There might be more controversy or mixed opinions, for example, on issues around electronic cigarettes and industry voices there. I'm not sure whether that's something you would have reached a view about yet. No, I don't think we have as yet. I would imagine that most members would take a cautious approach to that, but I think that's not something we've really sat down and defined as yet, because it is, obviously, early days. We've just had the first introductory meeting and there was a lot of discussion over a lot of issues and a lot of enthusiasm. When you get so many organisations in the room who all want to say how the group should develop, I think that it will take two or three meetings, perhaps, before we set everything down and can establish a stone, so to speak. Some huge challenges, and I think that you appreciate what you're taking on here. It's going to be a massive potential issue for you. Education, marketing, promotion, all of that comes into this process because individuals make choices sometimes dependent on what they are perceived and the advertising and the organisations in industries that you've touched on already. How are you going to muck and promote yourself to make sure that you get the right people from these organisations in? Also, if you are going to exclude any other organisations because you feel that they are creating the problem, how are you going to manage that because there could well be a conflict? First of all, what I would say is that the decision on who to exclude or include is really a matter for the wider group and where possible, I think, we'll try and take those decisions on a consensual basis. In terms of marketing the group itself, it would really depend on what the group is actually trying to do. Obviously, social media press within the Parliament itself direct contact with MSPs and other organisations. There is a network out there of organisations that are involved in those particular areas. A lot of them are interconnected already. I think that there is a bush telegraph that helps to market it. In terms of dealing with some of the issues such as tobacco, the cross-party group on tobacco control was very much involved in doing work, for example, in the lead-up to the driving force for the smoking ban. It was a group that actually put that into the public domain with discussions with ministers, people like Bill Aitken from your own party, Robert Brown from the Liberal Democrats, for example, Richard Simpson from the Labour Party. We are all very influential in actually taking that agenda forward then. I think that it shows that cross-party groups can actually be effective in terms of raising ministerial and public awareness of some of these issues. There is also a concern among members of our group that people think that, although the smoking ban on tobacco is no real-time issue, it still kills thousands of people every year in Scotland, so we want to ensure that it does not fall off the agenda. I think that we would support President Putin's view that everyone born from the year 2015 onwards should automatically be banned from ever smoking a cigarette, which apparently is something that he is talking about, but certainly persuasion, education over a period of time will be more effective. Mr Gibson, you are going to exclude lobbyists from the whisky industry, for example? No, sorry, I have not said that. That is my personal view. The group has not taken a view on that, for example, as yet. We are still to discuss the position with regard to alcohol companies, for example. The Portland group should it be included, should it not. The only groups that have decided should be banned at this stage are really the tobacco companies and those that serve their interests. In terms of alcohol, a more nuanced approach is likely to be taken by the group in that regard. My question is where do you stop and start when you decide to ban one group of people from a cross-party group, which is about a forum for discussion? In the interest of fairness, I would like to think that all voices can be heard, or perhaps that is not your intention? As I said, that is a matter that we are still to decide on, to be honest. Obviously, if we are going to be talking about obesity, is there an argument that a chocolate manufacturer would ban? Would that be the case or would it not be? To be honest, we will take a more nuanced approach with these organisations. We all have different views and will come to consensus, but tobacco is the only industry that we have decided would not be in any way connected to the cross-party group at this stage. I think that the aims and purposes of the group are laudable and valuable within the Parliament. The title of the group is a cross-party group on improving Scotland's health. Both in terms of where the group has come from and the details group is focused on alcohol and tobacco. Are you wondering whether or not the intention is to remain focused on those two issues or whether there is a wider preventative health agenda that you are wanting to look at more broadly and whether or not in the future that might be reflected in your aims? That is a very good question. In fact, the answer bluntly is yes. We are looking more at the preventative health agenda. We are trying to encourage people in Scotland to lead healthier lifestyles in terms of what they eat and hopefully to drink and smoke a bit less. That is definitely what we would do. I think that what we want to do is to try not to encompass everything at the early stages of the group. The reason that we have set the title that we have done is to say that this is not just something for now. What we want to do is to say that 2021 and beyond is because during this parliamentary term we want to be able to have some achievements, but we want to make it clear that this is a long-term issue.  It is about lifestyle and environment as Patrick Harvie talked about. It is about all those issues and how we draw them together and how we focus to take things forward. That is really about taking ideas from all the constituent organisations in the group and from the MSPs in the group to narrow that down and set ourselves achievable goals so that a year from now we can sit around and say what we would be doing in the last year and make any difference. Miss Hawke. Two very brief questions. The first is about the organisations that have already signed up. I see that you have three medical associations. You have the BMA and two Royal Colleges, one of physicians and one of psychiatrists. Have you looked to the RCN? Not only the RCN but other healthcare professionals organisations to join the group. I declare an interest here because I am co-convener of the mental health cross-party group. Mental health plays a huge part in people's health. We need to look at improving mental health across the country. How do you see your group working alongside the cross-party group on mental health? Those are just the initial organisations that have joined. Once the organisation gets established, if it is approved, we will obviously have other organisations. I would hope that we would certainly wish to join them. I think that the RCN would certainly have a role to play in that, as would other third sector organisations across the board. In terms of working with other cross-party groups, I am pretty sure that Jenny is convening that other members of the group would be more than happy to work with other cross-party groups. As I said in the last session, I was chaired by myself and Cross-Party Group on Epilepsy.  Given some of the issues that we would actually want to take forward in this cross-party group, I would certainly think that working at having a joint meeting with the cross-party group on mental health would be a very positive development. I do not think that it is likely to be in the next couple of meetings because we have got to find a feat, but certainly a year or two down the line. Probably not as long, as far away in the future as a couple of years, but certainly a few months down the line, I would certainly be happy to have a cross-party group. I am sure that I would be happy, as would Jenny, to discuss that with your own secretary about how we set that up and what specific focus we would have on such a meeting. It would be a meeting that would be something with a specific agenda and an outcome that we would be trying to achieve. Can I thank Mr Gibson for his attendance at committees this morning? We will deliberate on the CPG agenda item 3, and you will be informed of our decision as quickly as possible. Thank you very much, convener. Can I suspend while the witnesses change over? The final group that the committee is considering under proposed CPGs today is on nuclear disarmament, and I welcome Bill Kidd at MSP to the committee and invite Mr Kidd to make an opening statement. The cross-party group on nuclear disarmament has been a well-established group, unfortunately or sadly. Our secretary, who performed all the roles of the secretariat, passed away near the end of last year. On that side, not on the operational side, because you cannot stop nuclear disarmament from talking, but they did not put their work together well enough to get here sharpish prior to the start of the new year. However, the whole idea behind the group is to act as a policy forum for discussion and updating on how policy impacts on nuclear weapons issued in Scotland. The idea behind it is to share information expertise on nuclear issues in Scotland between MSPs and the general public, as well as organisations such as Scotty, CND and WALP. That is the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, established in 1917, whenever anyone from WALP is around. Other organisations have an interest in ensuring that the issue of nuclear weapons in Scotland, in the UK and worldwide, is concerned. That is the basis of the idea behind the cross-party group. Thank you very much. Can I invite any questions from the committee members? I want to take this opportunity to put on the record very sincere respect for the work of John Ainsley over many years in keeping the group on track and working well. The only comment that I had about the paper was that Andy Wightman's name was spelled wrong, so hopefully that can be corrected pretty easily. Thank you very much, Mr Harvey. Either we will correct it or Mr Wightman may care to change his name. I very much reiterate the fact that John Ainsley committed himself for over 20 years to the idea and belief. Janet Fenton, who is now taken over and who is a member of WALP, is equally as capable and will fit into the role. Any further questions? It leaves me to thank you for your attendance at committee this morning. We will be considering the CPG agenda item 3 and you will be informed of our decision as quickly as possible, so thank you very much. Thank you for the group for being so nice to me. If we could move to agenda item 3, and it is for the committee's consideration of the CPGs, and if we could set our first proposed CPG on Brexit, any comments from the committee? Cross-over so many areas and we will give us an opportunity to focus here, so I would be very supportive of it. There are lots of gaps in the information that has been provided to us. I would be minded to ask the group to come back to us with some more information before we approve the CPG. We had a similar situation with the CPG a couple of weeks ago, and we approved subject to an annual review of external membership. Would the committee be happy to approve on that basis for this proposed CPG? The next one is Improving Scotland's health 2021 and beyond. Any comments or concerns? Are we content to agree that CPG? Thank you very much. Finally, the proposed CPG on nuclear disarm, any comments? On top of Andy Wightman's name being spelled incorrectly, Objective 3 is just an NA, unless I am missing something. I think that they are saying that the overlaps with existing CPGs is not applicable. I understood. Okay, so we have content to approve. Thank you very much. On that note, we will take agenda item 4 in private session.