Daily Tech News show is made possible by its listeners, thanks to all of you, including Kevin, Paul Thiessen, and Ollie Samjabi. Coming up on DTNS, how well can smartwatches detect heart issues? Twitter theatrics continue whether we like them or not, and Patrick Norton is here with Home Theater Gift Guides. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, November 18th, 2022 from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. From somewhere in St. Louis, I'm Patrick Norton. Drawing the top tech stories in Cleveland, I'm Len Peralta. And I'm the show's producer, Roger J. Well, we do have quite a show for y'all. We're going to talk about gift guides. We're going to talk about Twitter melting down. But first, let's start with the quick hints. The U.S. Federal Communications Commission introduced new rules requiring Internet service providers to display easy to read labels with key facts about products at the point of sale. They look like nutrition labels and should include base price, itemized additional fees, speed, and any data allowances. Also, the Indian Space Research Organization successfully launched the country's first privately developed vehicle, the Vikram-S, suborbital rocket developed by Skyroot Aerospace. Skyroot developed a six meter long rocket over the last two years and it carried payloads for three customers. Bloomberg sources say that the U.S. government continues to seek information on agreements Elon Musk may have made with foreign investors who hold stakes in Twitter after his acquisition of the company, specifically around access to user data. Earlier this week, the U.S. Treasury Department, which leads the committee on foreign investment in the U.S., said it saw no need for such an investigation. We will be talking about Twitter a little later in the show, but first, Japan's Fuji News Network reports authorities arrested Sonic the Hedgehog's co-creator, Nuji Naka, on insider trading charges. The charges involved Naka allegedly buying 10,000 shares on the developer network, Aim Lean. Prior to the public announcement of the Dragon Quest-tacked mobile game, it was jointly developing with Square Enix, raised some eyebrows, obviously. Naka previously worked with Square Enix between 2018 and 2021. Samsung added support for Latin American Spanish to its Bixby virtual assistant. Some of you are using Bixby, so you're probably gonna be excited about that. Samsung said that the Galaxy S22 and S21 lineups, as well as the Z Fold 4 and Z Flip 4 get support now with more older devices getting support coming in December. Brazilian Portuguese was the only Latin American language supported by Bixby until now. All right, Patrick, let's talk about hearts, shall we? I have a lot of heart. Me too. All but mighty. And who shouldn't? A new study from the Mayo Clinic focused on whether or not the Apple Watch's ECG feature can detect heart abnormalities, such as left ventricular dysfunction. If you're not familiar with that, an ECG monitor measures and records your heart rate and its rhythm and displays that information in a wave-like pattern that you can either use for yourself, share with your doctor, et cetera. However, certain abnormalities are often undiagnosed because they don't show symptoms, but they can be followed by very serious medical issues like congestive heart failure. Nobody wants that. So looking at 2,454 patients across 12 countries and including 124,000 ECGs from Apple Watch data between August 2021 and February of this year, the researchers finding indicate that consumer watch ECGs acquired in non-clinical environments can indeed identify patients with cardiac dysfunction or who might have that in the future. An AI algorithm used in the study is currently being reviewed by the FDA. So that's not happening yet, but it is in review. But the full study results and discoveries were published in Nature Medicine this week, which will be in our show notes. I thought this was pretty fascinating. I mean, I wear an Apple Watch. I'm not totally worried about heart stuff. Patrick worried about lots of other things, but what do you make of this? So I look at this and I think two things. One, this is amazing because there's been all sorts of heart issues in various branches of my family and people I've known and all that kind of stuff. And on the other hand, I'm like, oh, this is gonna send a whole another flood of people trying to figure out if they have what they have and searching maybe not the best vetted websites for medical information. And I am fascinated. I'm curious because this is really kind of like tricorder zone where it's like, I have a handheld device. We'll allow everyone an electrocardiogram. This used to take hours in a hospital and blah, blah, blah, blah, or a doctor's office. And so it's really slick, but there's a really thin or maybe a really wide but kind of amorphous line between, this is a medical product that has been certified by medical professionals in testing and we made a thing that acts like that other thing. That requires a doctor and you can do this at home. So I'm really, really curious to see, I haven't had a chance to play around with one of these yet. It might be horrifying. It might cause me to immediately go to a doctor, but I'm very, very, very, very curious to see what the kind of studies say about this over the next few years as they kind of examined how these work, how well they work in the real world. Does it save lives? Does it just cause all sorts of people panicking and going to the doctor? I'm curious. Yeah, that, good point.  I'm like, hmm, my left arm feels weirdly numb, am I dying kind of thing? And yeah, there's a lot of misinformation out there and not necessarily nefarious, but just information that is not helpful to you as a person who really needs to go to a medical professional. That said, for folks who are wearing, not only an Apple Watch, there are certainly a variety of other handheld devices that do ECG or EKG functionalities that it feels to me like, even if I were to get like an alert like, you might wanna see your doctor. Maybe there's nothing to it. Maybe there is something more to it, but the fact that the study showed that, well, it was definitely picking up on things that other people were gonna have problems with down the road, I heard to say no. No, like hundreds of thousands of people, I think several hundred thousand people die every year from heart-related disease or heart disease. So anything that helps slow that down. Oh, here's a fantastic cdc.gov stat. Every year about 805,000 people in the United States have a heart attack. So anything that makes it better or easier for people to find out they have a problem before it turns into a heart attack, I gotta say that's a good thing. Yeah, me too, me too. All right, well, let's talk about things we might wanna buy for the holiday season. On Monday, we talked to Trisha Hershberger about gift shopping for gamers this holiday season. What does the gamer that you love in your life want as a gift? But what do you get that special somebody, you know, could be your adversary, I don't know, who wants the best audio from a home theater setup or just a great way to listen to their music, Patrick, you deal with this stuff all the time on AVXL, that's what you and Robert Aaron do best. So what are your gift recommendations for these folks? Oh my goodness. So my partner in AVXL Home Audio Theater Mayhem or Home Theater Mayhem, Robert Aaron, he's gonna be on next week, I think Monday to talk about best deals on TVs. So if we laugh like, you know, 50% of home theater is video and 50% of home theater is audio and all too many people experience home theater. I might even say 90% of some movies and television shows is audio. I am probably exaggerating because I like the speakers and the headphones, but audio is a huge part, especially in the age of Dolby Atmos, audio is a huge part of the experience. And if you don't have a decent set of speakers, you're missing out on some really spectacular work by some really creative people.  I mean, sound comes out of them, you can figure out what people are saying, there's kind of a thing that might sound like an explosion, but I am mocking them. But generally speaking, speakers are kind of an afterthought, they are stuffed in the space that is left over from the rest of the engineering. And moving up to a simple sound bar or a decent set of stereo speakers will be a big step up for almost every television out there. Or you can go for the ultimate, which is a full surround sound system. You know, it can, you don't have to spend a lot of money. And when you say surround sound, you're talking about like 5.1.  These speakers have been around forever. They sound decent, they're 150 bucks. If you can figure out a way to get the audio from your television into these speakers, they will probably be a major upgrade from the speakers inside of television, right? Soundbars have gotten incredibly sophisticated. I've been amazed when an entry-level Vizio soundbar, like they cost under 200 bucks for the entry-level ones and they do a very good job of bringing you the sound experience.  They are sort of synthesizing Dolby Atmos through processing to give you a larger soundstage or more impressive soundstage. You know, something like Vizio's M512A, it's a soundbar, it has real channels, it has a sub. It's not a sub like it's gonna shake your house, but it's a sub like you're gonna feel the music down to 40 or 50 hertz. And it's gonna be impressive and it's got up-firing Atmos speakers. It's like four or $500. That is going to be an amazing upgrade from the speakers that are in your television. Folks at Wirecutter, they have really good things to say about JBL's bar 2.1 deep bass. I haven't had a chance to hear that. It doesn't have real channels, but it is gonna give you a good front soundstage and really solid low-end. But on the subject of soundbars, I had a friend who knew that we were gonna be talking about this today and is kind of putting together their new apartment and was like, is Sonos still the soundbar to get? And I was like, well, I mean, it's an expensive soundbar to get, but it sounds like Sonos has a lot of competition now. There is a lot of competition, right? So Sonos is not inexpensive. By the time you get a soundbar and a couple of play one type speakers for the back, I shouldn't call them play ones, or some of my favorite, these sort of panel speakers that there's a IKEA Sonos symphonic speaker that's essentially a picture speaker that's incredibly friendly for wall mounting and actually sounds shockingly good. Sonos, I would buy Sonos, if I was invested in the Sonos environment. We have one, two, three, four, five, six, probably eight Sonos, kind of friendly streaming devices in our house, right? Cause that's what's in the boys' bedrooms. We have the idea lamp. We have a couple of the speakers in the living room, the dining room, the kitchen, the bedroom, and I have the ability to run the stuff through an amp and a set of speakers downstairs. For us Sonos, it was amazing because I set up the Sonos system and I got our MP3 collection hooked up to it, then I got Spotify hooked up to it and it changed the way everybody in my family listened to music in a really positive way because it made it easy to stream music anywhere at the house of a pretty good quality. The sound bars are actually really good. Robert Herron uses a Sonos sound bar in his house and he is in love with it. They have an optional subwoofer, you can add on to that. They just came out with a sub mini recently that is actually pretty good. The big sub's a little boomy, but if you want movies or you love the booty shaking bass lines, it is a delightful story. If you don't have downstairs neighbors. Yeah, that's a big one, downstairs neighbors, but it's kind of amazing if you go with the beam or the arc and a couple of Sonos One speakers for the surround sounds, it is really nice. It's a little more spendy than a lot of them. And it's a toss up. If you're in the Sonos environment, I'd say absolutely, get a Sonos sound bar. If you're not in the Sonos environment and you start getting to the $800, $1,200 range, I start being like, start spending a little bit more and start thinking about separate speakers and an AV receiver. It's Brent Butterworth, a writer, audio reviewer, writer, bass player, actually jazz bass player, fantastic human being. I really like his work. He did a really nice set of testing with what I will effectively call not stupid, crazy home theater geeks like me, titled, can a good sound bar rival a truce around sound system in a blind listening test? Go to the Wirecutter, read that article, because it talks about what happens when you go from a sound bar, which is a block of speakers in a box mounted under or over your television set, versus having a distinct and separate and hopefully, you know, appropriately spaced out, left speaker, right speaker and center channel. And center channels being separate from the left and right speakers really open up the sound stage or the experience in some really cool ways, especially if you have rear surround sounds there. You know, I think a great place to start is ELAC's debut 2.0 speakers and center channel paired, basically entry level 5.1 4K ready AV receiver, Denon's AVRS 540BT. Great place to start for 5.1 surround sound. You know, once you have that 5.1, the three front channels, the two rear channels, the next thing and a subwoofer, the next thing to think about is overhead speakers or what they call, you know, Dolby Atmos elevation speakers where they're up firing speakers. And if you want to talk about that, do me a favor, email assetavxcel.com because Sarah and I don't have enough time to get into the all the delightful things to consider. But Atmos in a well-installed room, like Atmos, Dolby Atmos is amazing. Like I don't care about the sixth, the seventh, the ninth and the 11th speakers in a surround sound system, but if you, instead of adding more speakers around you, you do those speakers above you or up firing, it's a pretty amazing experience when it's set up properly. Real quick for anybody who says, well, you know, I'm interested in building out my home theater, but I'm also really interested in the best headphones. I know, I know I have my thoughts, but real quick, what would you point people towards? Oh my goodness. I have a list in the rundown. Cut me off at any time. It'll be in our show nets. I'm sure there's a lot of information here. I have too many, I love headphones, right?  I'm pretty sure Roger Chang is wearing a set of these right now. If not, I'd bet money he's wearing a pair of Sony's MDR 7506's. That is a fantastic headphone. I've owned them for years and years and years. That's Wirecutter's best headphone under $100. I'm also a big fan of Byer Dynamics DT770. Some people call them ugly. I call them wonderful. They're bulletproof. You know, they are a studio staple for professional studios. They're 140 on Amazon right now. They are fantastic. If you want to start getting into sort of audio file stuff, Monolith's Monoprice M565C, they are a closed back, which means it keeps the sound inside the headphone over ear, planar magnetic. Planar magnetic is basically a thin strip of material that they run electricity through strips of metal that are bonded to the thin material. They start doing really spectacular things, especially with music that has a lot of high-end or cymbals and orchestral music. Can I keep going or should we just point people to the website? Because I got more. I know you do. I wish we did have more. What Patrick has given us is quite a few links. So if anything has tickled your fancy in any of the conversations that we had over the last few minutes, do check out our show notes, because there's a lot of information here. And I think the takeaway is one size doesn't fit all. It might be that you're on a budget. It might be that you want the best audio. It might be that there's a comfort fit that appeals to you. I got a list of the best kind of neutral, fairly comfortable headphones from $20 up to like a $900 set of Dan Clark audio Aeon 2s, and even something more expensive than that if you're really feeling unhinged. So go forth. The music sound better. Well, as you do go forth, Patrick, Twitter, where do we begin with the week that was Twitter? We have covered Twitter, and there are days that we haven't covered Twitter on DTNS, because it seemed more businessy than tech. But here we are. So let's just run it down. We'll start with the Verges coverage that earlier this week, Twitter owner Elon Musk fired dozens of employees who criticized or mocked him in tweets and internal messages. This is coming from the employees. Then he set a deadline of 5 PM each time on Thursday. That would be yesterday for anybody who's listening live for all employees to either respond, yes, on a Google form that they wanted to stay for what he's calling Twitter 2.0 or not. Otherwise, leave the company. Receive a severance package. Yeah, I mean, this was he was like, we're going to be hardcore and making Twitter 2.0, and we're going to live in the office, and we're going to eat flat foods, sit under our doors, and I'm exaggerating, but not by a lot. And basically commit to this by signing up in the Google form, or if you don't, we're going to give you three-month severance. And the rumors that are showing up in some fairly major sites is that something like 1,200 people out of the 3,750-ish left who were remaining were like, bye. Very much, yes. And many of those folks are talking to various publications who are taking stock of this. And they locked all the employees out until Monday. Right. That was something that Bloomberg reported, that Musk, at least on some level, reversed this whole no-more-working-from-home policy, which a lot of people were like, are you kidding? Like, look at all the Twitter employees across the world. We all have to go into an office. Well, there are fewer of them now. But an email that was sent today, quote, regarding remote work, all that is required for approval is that your manager takes responsibility for ensuring that you are making an excellent contribution. It's also expected that you have in-person meetings with your colleagues on a reasonable cadence, ideally weekly, but not less than once per month. At risk of stating the obvious, any manager who falsely claims that somebody reporting to them is doing excellent work or that a given role is essential, whether remote or not, will be exited from the company. It seems like the kind of thing you shouldn't have.  I was, okay. So we've both been through a Warnacht firing, right? Which kind of comes down to 60 days notice or 60 days pay to grossly oversimplify. It's a longer period of time in New York. It is a thing. And the whole process of this has just been so brutal and so unpleasant. And the reaction has been pretty harsh, both I think in the Twitterverse and actually the reaction, not to get businessy, but the reaction to the Tesla stock because I feel like a lot of Tesla investors are like, shouldn't you be making cars instead of tanking Twitter? And but that's what people are saying is that they've lost so many, they literally had days. It is not a particular exaggeration to say they had not that many hours to put together the list of people they were cutting out of an incredibly large group of people. And I get it. You wanna do staff reductions. You have to change things. You've got a billion dollars a year and debt payments to make. You've just spent $44 billion for a company that's never actually really made money. I can get where you would be like, we're gonna cut expenses right now. But I feel like they're in a position where they slashed a lot of people and then they did a lot of things that were really unpleasant or unkind to a lot of critical employees who may even despite the cooling down of tech employment in the Bay Area have options. And now they're looking around and probably the speculation is, this is a complicated code base that, according to people who are being quoted in relatively legit publications has requires a lot of maintenance to keep it functioning. Indeed. And that's the big question. Will Twitter stay up? Will Twitter collapse? Will Elon have a fit of peak and shut it down? Well, and if you hang out on Twitter as much as I do, as of last night, 9 p.m. Pacific time before I just shut my computer off and said, no more for me. It sounded like, oh, well, we'll see if this whole platform even stands tomorrow. It is standing, it is. But one of the most recent notes comes from the New York Times. This was pretty soon before we started the show. Sources from the NYT saying that internal estimates show that about 1200 full-time Twitter employees resigned on Thursday. This is in reaction to Elon Musk saying, are you in Twitter 2.0 or are you out? Twitter had about 37 staff after the mass layoff. So if you're kind of going, all right, so if the 3700, if 1200, and there's probably some leeway on those numbers have walked away, we are getting into weird territory. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to say good luck. I hope everybody who has been booted from Twitter or has chosen to exit at Twitter is well-taking care of and has good options because that, again, Sarah and I have been through it a whole bunch of times. It's never fun. So good luck and, hey, hopefully the remaining engineering staff, maybe hopefully the code bias is more robust and people are implying and the remaining staff is able to keep it going. And who knows what it's going to be? Because, yeah, I don't even want to mention things involving little blue check marks and impersonations and all that other data. I know.  All week. All day, all week, all month. I don't want to be here all year. But if you are feeling social, we do still have a Twitter account, which we use, DTNS Show on Twitter. We're also on TikTok at Daily Tech News Show and DTNSPIX on Instagram. All right. Let's hand it off to our very own Tom Merritt now for a deep dive into accessibility in video games. Pretty much everybody likes playing video games. Pretty much everybody likes playing video games, right? But not everybody can use the stock controllers on offer. Thankfully, video game accessibility is getting a lot more attention these days. And Steve Saylor is leading that push as a video game accessibility consultant who's worked with developers like Naughty Dog and Microsoft. Steve, welcome to DTNS. Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. So what are some of the common issues that video accessibility can address? A lot of it mostly comes down to just trying to be able to break down the barriers that disabled players have to basically go through on a day-to-day basis and still keeping the same challenge that a video game provides. I mean, otherwise, it'd basically just be like watching a movie. So a lot of times people who are deaf and hard of hearing, blind, low vision, those are motor disabilities or even those with cognitive disabilities, what we try to be able to do is basically make it so that some of those disabilities or barriers that they have in everyday life essentially can be able to be removed and whether that's through design or through options in whatever game they want to play. So how do you approach that from the developer side? What kind of things do you need to do? There's several things you can do. A lot of it comes down to education because not every developer either knows someone that has a disability or just knows what to specifically do. So there are guidelines and resources that are provided online that are freely available and also some that are paid that essentially you can be able to tap into to learn more about it. It's also being able to talk to consultants like myself that have a disability that live it day-to-day that they can be able to offer suggestions and feedback that developers may not understand or know about and then essentially it's about basically starting it from the very beginning as many times as developers as you start a project you have the ability to have almost unlimited budget, unlimited resources and the earlier you can start with accessibility and you design with everyone in mind then essentially it makes it a lot easier down the road to be able to either tweak or to be able to get feedback and be able to try to be able to make a more whole accessible experience. Yeah, that makes sense. Get in early, right? So that you're budgeted in from the beginning and you're not trying to add something on at the end. On the other side, on the infrastructure side I think a lot of people who are unfamiliar with accessibility look at a game controller. In fact, some people forget accessibility look at a game controller and go, that's a lot of buttons. How do I take advantage of that? How do you translate things like thumbsticks and D-pads and all of that sort of thing? Well, it depends because sometimes there are definitely players that can even use a controller in sort of the common, whether it's like a dual-sense controller from PlayStation or an Xbox controller on the Series X or even Nintendo. And it's kind of evolved mostly just from how we used to have controllers in the 80s and hasn't really evolved in regards to accessibility. So a lot of times it really kind of comes down to being able to provide freedom and customization that if you need to be able to play with a controller that either vertically instead of horizontally or play with one-handed or to be able to utilize essentially what hardware like what Xbox has which is the Xbox Adaptive Controller which provides, like you can set up buttons and switches and toggles that those with motor disabilities can essentially be able to use. And then having other people to be able to kind of play with you kind of using systems called co-pilot where essentially you can kind of combine multiple controllers into one controller and allows more people to be able to kind of play at the same time if there are certain controls that a disabled player can't be able to utilize or be able to kind of fully use. It seems like you'd have to make sure that inputs on the designer and our standardize then so that depending on what system is being used it's still going to translate into the game. Is there an industry standard on that sort of thing? Not currently. And that's something that we in the disabled or at least in the accessibility community we don't necessarily try to encourage because if there is like a sort of a standard set of like here's all the options you should have then it just becomes a checklist and people and developers may not want to be able to just move past that checklist and because everyone wants to be able to make their game as different as possible to kind of stand out from the crowd every game is different and every game also provides new challenges for disabled players. There are sort of a certain standard like stuff like offering subtitle options and customization for controls or having a large tech size. Like that stuff can be kind of universal for the most part but we always try to encourage that it's not necessarily about what standard options that you can have into a game but it's more about trying to design an accessible experience. Got it, got it. I know we have some small or sometimes beginning game developers in the audience I think for them it's like well it's easy for Naughty Dog to do this they've got tons of resources. How does a small maybe independent solo game developer address accessibility themselves? Actually it's a really good question because kind of the common myth is that if you're an independent developer and you don't have a lot of money to provide for budget or resources that accessibility is difficult to do but in reality you can actually be able to do a lot more for accessibility than a AAA can. Like AAA you have managers you have a lot of red tape that you would have to go through just to get any approval on trying to be able to try out a new thing whereas in the developer there's less red tape so essentially they can just kind of go in try a bunch of different things and it would make them a lot more efficient in trying to be able to make things more accessible plus also there are free resources like there is a video game accessibility guidelines that you can be able to search up on Google Xbox provides them as well and there actually are testing services that Xbox provides at any given point in the development process that is specifically for independent developers that hey we just want to make sure that your game is accessible we'll test it, we'll help you out we'll provide guidelines and all of that is either up to like from free or you can be able to pay Xbox even to be able to have that kind of access to their service. Ah fantastic. Steve thank you so much for sharing your insights and expertise on this if folks want to follow more of what what you do where should they go? Yeah you can follow me on Twitter at Steve Saylor or twitch twitch.tv slash blind gamer Steve or on my YouTube channel where I do a lot of accessibility reviews and previews youtube.com slash snowball. Well going on with the thank yous because we have a lot of people who contributed to the show today we'd like to thank Len Peralta Len it's so nice to see you again what have you been drawing for us? Well you know next week here in the United States it's the Thanksgiving holiday and you know we ended up talking a little about Twitter and that's I sort of did a mashup of Thanksgiving and Twitter this one's called is the bird done and uh Oh goodness I you know after last night's meltdown I'm not really sure where it's going Is that like arugula under the bird? It's like lettuce possibly Yeah you know whatever you make of it Yeah so for all those exited Twitter employees if you'd like to order this actually if you're a Patreon of mine you get this right now patreon.com forward slash Len or you can go the old fashioned route which is lenperaltastore.com you can order it it arrives right in your mailbox or your digital mailbox whatever you have I'm also doing a custom drawn holiday card so you may want to consider those as well but happy Thanksgiving everybody Happy Thanksgiving to you too Len and and and you as well Patrick Norton let folks know where they can keep up with what you're up to Well twitter.com slash Patrick Norton until the twitter apocalypse what are we going to call it when it goes down if it goes down I hope it doesn't go down otherwise abxl.com is the best place to find me or search for A-V-E-X-C-E-L on your favorite pod catcher you can listen to Robert Herron and I talk about home theater and audio you don't want to miss it thanks to both of you for being with us today also special thanks to Ariadne Spex who is one of our top lifetime supporters for DTNS thank you for all the years of support Ariadne speaking of patrons stick around for our extended show Good Day Internet we roll into it right after it wraps up but just a reminder you can catch the show live Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. eastern 2100 UTC find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live and we hope you all have a great weekend we'll be back on Monday talk and TV deals with Robert Herron this week's episodes of Daily Tech New Show were created by the following people host producer and writer Tom Merritt host producer and writer Sarah Lane executive producer and booker Roger Chang producer writer and host Rich Strafilino video producer Twitch producer Joe Coontz technical producer Anthony Lemos Spanish language host writer and producer Dan Campos news host writer and producer Jen Cutter science correspondent doctor Nicky Ackermans social media producer and moderator Zooey Dettardin our mods Beatmaster Dubby Scott Esplan Dr. Rahmat Matthew J. Stevens JD Galloway Mod and hosting video hosting by Dan Christiansen video feed by Sean Wei music and art provided by Martin Bell Dan Looters, Mustafa A, Acast and Len Peralta live art performed by Len Peralta Acast adds support from Tatiana Matias Patreon support from Dylan Harari contributors for this week's show include Shannon Morse Justin Rubber Young and Patrick Norton guest on this week's show included Trisha Hershberger and Steve Sailor thanks to all our patrons who make this show possible


So this week we're talking about the basics of cybercrime investigation, specifically what investigators actually do whenever they're trying to figure out how a cybercrime was committed. So the first thing I want to stress when we talk about cybercrime investigation is that traditional methods of investigation are really the most important part of a cybercrime investigation. Many people think that cybercrime is completely happens online and that's not necessarily true. There's a lot of aspects of cybercrime that also happen offline and a lot of skills that investigators need that relate to traditional investigations or criminal investigations that we have to use for cybercrime investigations as well. So computer crime investigation is very much the same as traditional investigations and a lot of people don't really think that because we're dealing with a computer system and a computer system, they think is very different from, for example, a crime scene which is a house where you might have different pieces of evidence laying around the house. They don't really understand that a house that is a crime scene is very much the same as a computer that's a crime scene. They both contain potential pieces of evidence. We have to go in and look at those pieces of evidence and make sense of them in the context of our investigation or in the context of what happened. So what I really want to stress is that to be a good cybercrime investigator you have to have traditional police investigation knowledge or understand how traditional investigations are actually take place and apply those methods and techniques to cybercrime investigations both online and in computer or phone systems whenever we're analyzing. In week seven we'll talk a little bit more about the processes that investigators actually go through whenever they're looking at computer systems. This week we're focusing more about cybercrime online. How do we investigate online traces and trace back to criminals or trace back to events that have happened online that may not even necessarily be in our country. So traditional crime and cybercrime whenever we're investigating them we're using the same investigation procedures and techniques. We're using the same methods and in the next lecture we'll talk about what those methods actually are. How can we present evidence in a very easy to understand way not only to ourselves but for court. And I also want you to realize that computer crime rarely happens only online. There are some types of crimes that only happen online. We don't really have a lot of offline or physical traces that we can investigate. But most types of cybercrime that we come across have some sort of traditional component or offline component. Even whenever we're dealing with for example bank accounts. Bank accounts we can do bank transfers but normally criminals want to take the money out of the bank eventually. So in that case they're taking what may have been a completely online crime and converting it into the physical world let's say. And at that stage we can start to do a traditional or physical investigation. So traditional investigation methods are really important to also cybercrime investigation. They're not separate things. Although most people think that you have to kind of separate them out a little bit really you need traditional investigation skills and technical knowledge and that's what we'll talk about today. So computer crime is rarely only online. For example bank accounts that's probably the most one of the most important sources that we normally come across because so much online fraud is done all over the world. A lot of the online fraud that takes place involves online bank transfers. Well the criminals or the suspects want to eventually get access to that money and really the only way that they can get access to it is by withdrawing it somehow. And once they withdraw that money then it becomes an offline crime. So we don't just have only online although most of our traces may be. Witnesses and victim statements. You can't really even I guess start a case until you have some sort of victim that says that something has happened or a witness that says that something has happened. And this is normally a person coming into the police station saying my money was stolen online. In that case their statement is kind of a physical statement. It's not online. You can't research it. You can't investigate it online. It has to be done through traditional investigation methods and knowing how to actually interrogate witnesses, interrogate suspects to get the information that you need to do better online investigations. So I mean without witnesses and victims it's very difficult to even really start a case in some cases unless we're doing some sort of operation. Having cash from an ATM I talked about that's one of the most obvious ways that criminals go from kind of an online crime to an offline crime. There has to be some connection to criminals in the physical world, these people who are doing this crime, versus the crime that they've committed online potentially all over the world. And we're looking for what that connection is to actually find out who they are and how they work. So beginning cyber crime investigators I would say really it requires some basic computer knowledge and skills that puts you ahead of the average computer user. Now think about what the average computer user is in your country. Most people have knowledge of how to use a computer. They can surf the internet. They can do basic things. But the average computer user doesn't really know much beyond internet surfing really. So even if you know a little bit more, for example, how are files stored in a computer then that will already give you a bit of an edge on potential criminals that are committing fraud or whatever online. You'll be able to investigate them at least a little bit. So most investigators whenever you're starting out, even if you don't really have a strong background in technology, as long as you can study enough to get a little bit ahead of the average, then you'll be at a very good starting point. And that's what I hope this course teaches you again in the second half we'll get much more into the technology of things. And we must be able to apply traditional policing skills and procedures to the case. Now this one's very important. There's basically two people who come into cyber crime investigations or digital forensic investigations. Either people who were trained as investigators, traditional investigators, they know how to interrogate suspects. They know how to do criminal investigation processes. And that's what their training is in. But they may have little or no experience with computers. They can still do computer investigations because they know the investigation process. It might take them much longer because they don't know the technology behind it. But they still know how to, let's say, associate information with their case and potentially extract evidence. Now the other type of people that normally do investigations are the technological people, the people who really know technology. But what we normally see is that people who maybe are excellent programmers or they know everything about an operating system don't necessarily know how to do investigations. Any question you give these people, they may be able to answer you but they might not be able to actually make a whole case or be able to support the case with evidence because they don't know how to do proper investigations. So there needs to be kind of a mix of learning investigation procedures, how to actually make investigations and learn the technology. How does the technology work? Where can I find potential sources of evidence? And you need both of those and it really needs to be balanced. If you have too much of one, it doesn't really help you to solve cases or put together a strong case. If you have too much technology, let's say, you might be able to find things but not make a strong case for the court so you might lose cases. That's not good. If you don't know the technology, you might not know where to look for the evidence. So then you might also be missing evidence and somebody who's actually guilty may get off because you couldn't make a strong case against them. So cyber crime investigations really take both areas of this knowledge. And if you're good at technology, I really strongly recommend that you look into investigation procedures, how police actually do things, how to be an expert witness, how to do interrogations. Some of those things are a little bit beyond the scope of this course but we will talk to you a little bit about the investigation process and the technology behind that. And if you're already trained in how to do investigations, you already know how to put a case together, you know how to ask, let's say, people about the case and get the information you need to make a strong case, you need to also be studying the technology because every type of case now, almost every type of case, is going to be involved in some sort of technology. So for example, even murder, murder cases, basically ever since everyone has started carrying cell phones or there's been CCTV cameras around, murder investigations rely quite heavily on technology now. They're not an online crime at all but we still have to know how to access the data on a cell phone, for example, to find evidence about how the murderer planned their operation or how they're working, basically. So really it takes a balance. You need to study both legal processes, investigation processes, interviews, things like that and also the technology side of things. So I know some people prefer one or the other but if you don't have a balance, it's very, very difficult to get in depth into cyber crime investigation. So that's really what you need to be an investigator and we'll talk more about each of those areas or some of those areas in this course, specifically on how to do the investigations or investigation process this week. But what I wanna talk about now is how do we actually find people online? If somebody commits a crime or we suspect somebody have committed a crime, how do we track them down? How do we find out who they are and what they were doing? And this comes back down to how do computers or how do devices online communicate with each other? So to communicate, two computers need to be connected in some way. We have a physical network that could be, for example, wireless, it could be a cable and that cable basically connects back to your service provider, your internet service provider. The internet itself, everyone that's connected across all of these different countries uses a protocol called TCPIP to make connections between. It's kind of like a language that all devices on the internet can speak that lets them talk to each other. If they don't speak a common language, they can't talk to each other, so they can't exchange information. So the language we currently use is TCPIP and each computer must have its own unique IP address. So any computer that's speaking online has to have its own unique IP address. Think of this like you and your friend's cell phone number. If you wanna call your friend, your friend has a specific cell phone number and no one else can have that number. If somebody else had that cell phone number and you try to call it, then the phone company wouldn't know which phone you're actually trying to contact. So in this case, one cell phone number for one person means that I can contact them directly. IP addresses are basically the same. We have one IP address for a computer online and whenever I look for that IP address, then the service provider knows where I want to contact. So then those two computers can talk to each other. Now, using that, we have essentially an identifier. So a unique identifier online that traces or tracks back to a specific computer. IP addresses, if you look at the notes, I talk about what IP addresses look like. We're currently using IP version four addresses and basically they have kind of four numbers with periods in between, that's how you normally see them. We'll talk more about IP addresses and what they can do actually in the assignment. Each number or each octet in an IP version four address can have a number up to 255 and we'll talk about why that's important. But the very important thing about IP version four addresses is that it's a quite old standard. It was created a long time ago and we're actually running out of IP addresses. Remember, every computer that wants to talk on the internet has to have a unique IP address and we actually have only four billion IP addresses, IP version four IP addresses, but we have more than four billion devices in the world. So all of those devices want to talk online, but it's like they can't get a cell phone number because we don't have enough numbers. So we're coming up or came up with another standard called IP version six. And IP version six is the new standard that some countries have already switched to but other countries are really falling behind on. And IP version six basically first off lets us have a lot more number space so we can give a lot more devices IP addresses, but it also has some additional security features and other advanced features that IP version four doesn't have. So we're moving to IP version six in most countries and these IP addresses are just ways that we can contact other computers on this global network, right? So why is that interesting to us? Why are we interested in IP addresses? Well, the main reason that an investigator would be interested in an IP address is we can figure out where communication is coming from. So every computer has its own unique IP address and those IP addresses are regulated by a specific regulations body. They're called the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority or IANA. And IANA basically says what IP address blocks are assigned to which region or which countries, right? So we know this IP address block is assigned to a specific country and in those countries the IP addresses are assigned to organizations or usually internet service providers. So an internet service provider in a specific country gets a certain block of IP addresses. So already we can tell from the IP address basically the country and the internet service provider that it's been assigned to. The internet service provider then whenever I'm making a connection to my internet service provider they give me one of these IP addresses for a short period of time. They let me borrow it for a little bit. Then I can access the internet and do whatever I want with that IP address. Whenever I'm done I kind of give the IP address back. So if I borrow an IP address from a service provider and then I try to hack a bank in another country that bank or anyone watching that connection can already see which region the IP address is coming from, which ISP the IP address is coming from. And then if we ask the internet service provider who had this IP address at this specific time depending on the country they may be able to tell us depending on the legislation and how we work together. We'll talk a little bit more about international cooperation. I believe it's next week. And the kind of challenges that come up whenever we're trying to request information from other countries, but you can potentially get information about what subscriber had particular IP addresses at a certain time. So IP addresses immediately tell us basically the region and potentially the ISP that they're assigned to. Now there are a lot of tricks and I'll give you some links that provide some information about how suspects or how IP addresses can be kind of abused or look like they're coming from another country or another region. There's a lot of different tricks to try to fool the regions or anyone looking at the data which region they're coming from. So for example, if I'm hacking into a bank I don't want to let them know where I'm coming from, right? So we'll talk about some tricks that people use to try to get around being tracked. But the IP address is one of the best places for cyber crime investigators to start because they give us at least a connection. Once we have that connection we can start to investigate all of the different connections that have been made and usually trace it back through several different countries. And once we do that tracing or that investigation we can potentially find the source, the source of the traffic that was let's say hacking our bank. Once we have that then we can potentially locate where they were located. Once we know where somebody is located then we can potentially work with police in that country or in our country to find the people that are actually at that place. Now an IP address just gives us information about a computer or some device that's online. It doesn't necessarily tell us who is behind that device. So attaching for example somebody's name to an IP address doesn't necessarily tell us anything. Now sometimes it does but in most cases it's very difficult to associate an ID or a real person with some sort of ID that we see online. There are a couple different methods that countries are trying to implement to fix this problem but none of them have really worked very well so far because I mean it's a global network. Regional solutions don't really work in a global network. So it's difficult to associate IP addresses with a real person and that is where traditional investigations come in. So once I've located for example a place where I know a suspect is likely to be I still have to prove that the people at that place were the ones who did it. And that's where traditional investigation comes in. Cybercrime investigation will rarely tell you that kind of thing. We might get lucky for example and we track somebody's computer back to a certain location and then on their cell phone it has evidence that they were the one who actually did it but that doesn't necessarily tell us it was definitely them. And we'll talk more about trying to associate a user with actions later. How we do that with normally digital forensic investigations. Right, so for this week really what I wanna go through is how do cybercrime investigators start investigations? What do we normally look for? What types of information do we normally have whenever we're starting the investigation? Potentially from a victim, potentially from a witness. Maybe for example we only have an email, we only have a single IP address. How do we go from that single IP address to finding actual suspects behind whatever this crime is? So that'll be basically the topic of the next lecture as well as all the assignments this week. Thank you.


I just make films the way I like. Adur graduated from the Film and Television Institute of India in 1965. He went back to Kerala and in the same year was one of the key players in the setting up of a film cooperative in Trivandrum. You become another person even without the change of trust and adult.  I just do what I believe in. I don't compare myself with anybody else or anywhere else.


Well, what's up? What's up? What's up? Alright, I'm gonna go ahead and post social links in the background guys. Is this any better? Yeah, let us know if it's any better. We Start over we have one viewer. Thank you for coming back and We're gonna see if it's any better Otherwise we're mr. Abato Like so scattered right now Welcome to 109.5 hot makes radio Sounds good at the moment. All right Yeah, it sounds fine on Twitch, so all right Let's let's let's grab Matt if he's ready and let's do this. I'm gonna send him a link real quick. Okay Welcome back everybody. Sorry about that that sucked and It was like bouncing between good and bad and all that Weird so far so good it's working. All right, you should be joining here in a second. Oh Matt's gonna be joining us just a minute and we're gonna have some fun with Matt Hopefully Geary has some cool stuff to share with us because During the reboot. I didn't have any stuff to share with you anyway, so I have stuff to share Yeah, you have it up. I think you're ready Geary Geary is just jealous of Wally Yeah It's all the attention the only bouncing was your sound I love it well Go share go share the link with everybody you love for Matt Yeah, I'm not sure I'm not sure what is happening to be fair if it was crazy across everything and so we just rebooted everything and It looks like StreamYard was having some issues With other streams as well Yeah, we definitely had and some other people were saying that StreamYard was having issues with other chats as well Or other streams as well, but Yeah, I think we're good now though. Everybody says we're good. So all right, let's do this I know we're running a little bit late because of this audio garbage, but Without further ado, he's here. He's with us It is my pleasure to introduce Matt Hobbs Matt, how you doing? Well, whoa, whoa Dude I think we're doing good now, but yeah, yeah, I think we're doing much better. We actually we actually have audio so that's Professionals here folks. Yeah, I Gotta tell you a hundred and nine episodes and I can't remember Maybe one other time that we ever had audio issues like that. So hey, that's a that's a pretty good track record How you been good good? Nice I had it all Well, I know you're super busy and you just got out of a meeting and we appreciate you, you know squeezing some time in for us we are just super stoked to talk to you about all things Wally as we can see behind you and Of course, it's perfect timing to talk about the telescope if you can talk about that too. So that's that's pretty awesome Yeah, we can talk about any of that. It's all open source. It's all NASA all the missions are Free for anybody to see Nice. Oh, I love that But let's start let's start with who you are like what you do and maybe where people could find you after the stream And then let's dive right into it. Yeah, okay. So I'm Matt Hobbs originally from Huntsville, Alabama. I just moved out to California in October After finishing up integration for the the James web I was working for a company called nexol that built the sun shields in Huntsville And then we helped integrate out here and I found out I really liked it out here and decided I would Make the move and they had a job for me here. So, you know opportunity presented itself and here I am Other than that, it's it's you know, my hobbies are joy building. I mean, that's that's basically all I do Well, uh, you that that's pretty dang awesome that you get to work on that you worked on right the James web and I definitely want to dive into that. But like but first you said your hobby is droid building We could see right behind you any phenomenal Wally going on right there. Can you tell us a little bit about it?  I'm like, yeah, okay. Well, I want it right on next year That's how I operate Let's do it so Mike Senna and Michael and master talked a little bit They were the founders of the club and they had a lot of things going on and it was just a perfect time that another builder Had already started making the track system. So I was like, okay This is perfect if I can get the track system built. I can get everything else done without an issue So we went through build the track system with him and then Lose used a little bit input from Mike because he was using the same thing. So it's his design System with the metal tracks and then I think his mark D grown them. I think that's his last name that did the open source track system and then so we took And got that one built. Yeah, there's the first and there was one of my other hobbies that 1930 model a but oh man Those are too big and it's way too expensive. So But once we did that and Mike was really gracious that he let me his Joy, he was sick at the time and he was like, I can't use it. So here takes a joy I was working in California in a hotel So he trusted me to take the droid and then I took it all apart parts everywhere. It took and measured everything Droid just so that we could get all the measurements for the club And that's where set Kelly came in and then he came in and did the new club interface that we have now He did all of the took all of those measurements and went through thousands of screenshots and got The files that were using for this new one back here, which is Wally 2.0 And those are open source for the club So that's kind of where things went. Another guy Wayne was one that had the head mechanism.  So then we took and Redid all of that and made it producible I ended up with where we're at now and then we went through the first paint job was really crappy I don't know if you've got a picture of that. I should have told you that one It's like from the way back from first dragon con and it was what I perceived as an old rust bucket So that's what I did But then a little bit later on Pixar approached us and they're like, okay You'll redo your Wally to what We would like it to be done to Then, you know, we'll we'll let you be the first approved Wally to be approved for the park use Nice and we went through. Yeah, there he is So he went from that To what Pixar approved and what he is now Um, and then we've gotten a few more people approved and we do like the the private events and stuff in the parks that we can actually Um use these guys for so it's really cool that they they allow us to do that I love that. I love how they bring in people like for every every type of, you know Yeah Mandalorian and All the fan groups. Yeah, amazing. Now if they would just do a live action Wally, we would be There you go, so What is Wally? Like what's the predominant? Is it 3d printed? Is it like a combination? Is it? It's a combination of of all the elements everything but wood I think so I mean, it is 3d printed all the exterior body is the interior of this one Is a steel frame And then the new one that we're doing is all aluminum Uh with aluminum extrusion and a couple different flat pack systems that we've David's design, but this one is and the tracks are molded. So I took in 3d printed apart And then made silicon molds for that And then, you know cast those in a urethane, I think bjb Urethane so which we can get the links to all of those. They're all on my pages If anybody needs links for that, so that's awesome And you you know your reference in the page you're talking about your facebook group, right facebook. Yeah My facebook page. Yes. Yeah, that's awesome. So we'll get a link in that We'll get a link to that. I think it's already in the description Yeah, there's a link to it. I definitely post one too because I think this is such a cool thing and it looks like you have some other Droids behind you too. So right right over your shoulder there. Yeah, I mean, I've got uh mo It's sitting here. Then we've got the wally 2.0. We've got the r2 dome. I'm redoing that Uh to put the periscope in Then I've got the scrubber droid on this side over there um that that one was actually on the production set for Obi-Wan, but didn't get chosen Use the cool thing is is that actually weathered it for me. So it was it looks really good That is so cool being on set. So that was really cool. Yeah, no, that's super cool that you got to have it on set at least Yeah, so so um, oh there you go. Nice Oh, look at that It's just a real ice cream It's an ice cream thing. Let's put ice cream sandwiches in there and I'm like That's so good. I love that So That's why we took to celebration. They'd asked us to build one of those for the joygreens. So The recent celebration. Were you at that one? Well, it was. Yes. Just curious. I missed that one. I'm sad about it It was a good turnout That's what I heard. That's so good. Oh, look at that. There's Moe. This is that one So this was uh done by Matthew Zerts Files are and then uh, some of the programming and stuff is done by Stefan Um, which you know talking about all these other guys I'm mentioning is that You know, I'm not a one person does it all thing. Um, the team of friends I guess we're not in you know a team of people we've built some really good relationships over the The past five or six years and you know, I've only been doing this maybe Six years now, I guess. Wow As a hobby and You know, I couldn't do it without the other people that I work for why and we have motivate each other and push Push each other along but then we all have our shortcomings and we all have our things that we're really good at So, I mean, it's like, you know, that's why we have these communities and you know, if you're getting into this new then my biggest advice is You know build some friendships. Don't just ask questions. Try to build for, you know, some true friendships in these groups Uh, because there's there's a lot of great people out there Yes, that's that's great advice and it's cool to have a good core around you Yeah, you know, just like it's a good segue, right? Just like you you know working on the james web You guys didn't do everything, right? You did your piece and What what piece was that so we can talk about that? So I stuck up the sun shields is what I worked on So it's the big silver things that are underneath the mirrors. So they're protecting They're separating the mirrors from space Or from the sun basically on on the hot side So all of that silver and the purple on that's what we built each one of those is around the size of the tennis court They're about 40 feet by 80 feet. I think is what the Measurement is I'd have to look and see don't hold me with that. We're never supposed to meet you I don't know. They're right So you said like the size of a tennis court. Yes, it doesn't look like that from that first picture Yeah, this is so deceiving on this on this Those those are tennis court size from the width and the length of the tennis court So so they had a really cool Stream the whole time they were building this right in that building right you guys were inside there working Yeah, oh, yeah, I spent the last six years of the program out there Probably at least three to eight months out of the year Just all of that in a hotel room, you know, so it was It was it was good money, but it was it was a rough way of living. That's a lot of team members there Which are amazing That would be rough bill group there um That's cool So, yeah, it's it it was an amazing trip I mean what we did and what we got to do and you know, I've been told that I had the most hands-on gloved hands-on Usage of the of the sun shields from all the way from the beginning when I came in I started as a technician on what they called the template layers And then did that for around six months and craig was like, hey, do you want to you know manage the the Guys we only had like four at the time. I'm like sure, you know, I had done that previously. I came from the sign industry So my education is only two years Nice. Um, so I do not have an engineering degree which makes what I've achieved, you know, a lot different uh, that's just by a lot of hard work and You know putting all the things I should have finished school, but I did um, I love that I says if you're going to do this kind of work finish your school early You know try to get it on while you're young because the harder the older you get the harder it is, right? There's so many people though right now that don't have like an education that are doing these kinds of things that you know are just self-taught or Uh, it starts as hobbies and I love hearing those stories because yeah You know not not everything has to be streamlined, you know, cookie cut school I'm not saying don't go to school guys, but you know, there's so many different paths that you can take in your interest. So They're even down to the the technician level that you guys make good money Uh, you can start out It's better to have a school background in there and you'll make more coming in as far as that goes But if you know someone you're lucky enough to find your way in But it's it's where and start with a smaller company And you know, you'll grow from there. I was really lucky. I was in the right place at the right time Right. I designed a piece of hardware. They couldn't get enough stuff done So I designed something for one of the engineers there and he showed it to his boss and he was like, man, that's good So just got a job and they come and offered me a job. So it was nice there And then I worked that for a couple years in the management. I went into Um, what they call a manufacturing engineer position, which is basically the translator between the engineering team and the manufacturing team Uh, and we just try to all make everything work well together where we can produce it and design it Um did that and then, you know, it was always hands. I was working Um a working manager. I guess is what it was and that's I led by Doing that and I think that's what made my team so successful is that we were I was always in there with them I never you know left them out the hang or you know, something like that It's always getting if I knew if I could do it they could do it um They do it for me.  Well in your case, you're gloss You know, that's that's really what does make a team and that um, if you can find that in a company Grab it and run with it because in the bigger companies that you get in smaller companies It's easy to for that to happen, but the bigger ones are so subdivided Uh, it's really hard to that mix I think geary has some more pictures for us. Um, if you're if you're watching and you're not sure what we're talking about We're talking about Uh, the new james webb telescope. It's out there now. We just saw some Phenomenal pictures that just came back from that thing. Um It is it's the biggest telescope we've ever launched, right? Correct. Um, and it's and it took what six to eight years or something like that to build No, this was over 20 years to build from the start from design to build Okay, I'm for 11 years. Oh wow Jeez, so I I guess I came in late. Um, I have a good friend of mine Uh, he may be watching right now. Hey steve. Thanks for taking care of the animals. Um So he's he like you gotta check this out. There's this room There's this telescope and he was showing me this stuff and it was like nothing in this room yet He's like watching it every day, you know, seeing what's going on and then you start seeing stuff And uh, it's really cool to kind of like check in on it periodically and just all of a sudden There's stuff there then if there's more stuff then it's looking like something and what's even cooler is that we're probably Checking in on that. I saw you as one of the white, you know, it's one of the white suited people running around in there Um, but but I think we have some pictures. We have a picture there of uh, the actual telescope I think geary has that Um, sorry, what was that? I saw a little picture. Do you have a picture of the actual like the whole telescope? Uh, just this one I mean, I can pull something up though There we go. Can you hear me? nice We saw that a minute ago. We were talking about that that foil you said is each one of those like a tennis ball size Court there's a big difference there Of course the thickness of human hair, so Wow Or so each one of those sun shields can weigh less than 15 pounds. How delicate is that? It's they're delicate Hold up in space then But you know a little thinner but Intensile and strength they're really it's really strong, but if you do put a hole in it or something then it does tear So hopefully it never gets hit by a piece of space garbage. It's designed to to absorb that though. It's really we'll um, basically together so it's quilted in a section by section size So if something does go through it and it does do a tear it will go to a point and stop Oh, wow rip stops But even with this with we did a lot of testing with the stuff tensioned and you shoot something at it And it just goes directly through it. It doesn't tear it crazy That's that's it all folded up so we could fit in the fuselage, right? Correct. Yep. That's wow duration so so when you saw Recently, I mean you had to be super stoked when it actually got launched. It was up. It was like, hey look It's actually out there now, right? um What was your feeling when that happened and then like Late last week or I think it was last week when we saw the first pictures Like can you describe that as someone who worked on this thing? I can only imagine what that felt like. I've got a video out there that's of walle watching the the large And you know that that feeling was was was good. We got it off the ground You know, we know, you know, it's on its way and really what what hit me is they didn't expect it it came off the uh the secondary Launch and it released and then we got that glimpse of the uh, the solar array opening up and that was just like It's working, you know, it's it's all But nothing was as good as those first images when I saw those I was by myself and I'm gonna get teary thinking about it now But it was it was it was like, okay, we just saw something that you know, this is brand new now We're we're discovering all to look at everything out there and what I heard it from one of the scientists He's like, we're disappointed.  There's stuff everywhere They're expecting Earlier and they're not It's not going to be as popular but there's just it just continues and continues to go So it's just another one of those things of saying, you know, I mean, we can't be the only ones out there It's yeah, you know, it's and I'm glad that we're learning all the things We are and the discoveries that this thing's gonna make is is gonna be amazing It's it's and you know, I set back in a look and You know, my dad's not with me anymore, but he would be Wow, you know, you're you're gonna be in the books in the history books writing with this kind of stuff That like gives me chills. I love that I don't know how to describe it and I've tried to a hundred times, but I think that was a pretty good one but It's it's cool You have achieved something that Almost Nobody watching now Or gonna watch in the future. We'll ever have achieved ever, right? You were part of of this one piece that's out there at space You you had a big part of that and no one's ever gonna do that again. That's out there. It's gone It's never coming back, right? And and and your work is like I can only imagine during launch and stuff But the tension like please don't explode or something Yeah, there was a joke like if it does explode then it not working will not be our fault, but And we're glad that we got to see y'all though You know, there were hundreds and hundreds of single point failures on the thing and it's just like We were all on chat. It's like, okay, did this go did this happen did this go, you know What fired next and just watching all the different things and you know getting a little pickup or something like, oh, no You know what what do we do and there's all the contingencies and we had all these test pictures set up to Be able to test things if something went wrong and we never had to use them, which was really good. Everything worked That is that is so good, right? I Mean, I just want to you know on behalf of all of us that thank you for your work on this thing because it's like you said It is going to be in history books. I mean, we're seeing things that Literally have never been seen before I mean I don't I don't understand in my Brain like I haven't read enough to understand how these pictures are actually transformed from the infrared and all that stuff But holy moly, I mean, yeah, that's a whole another job Of yeah, that it takes to transform these. I mean a lot of it's done electronically But then a lot of it is the artists that are doing The work of you know helping us to visualize what's coming back from the the computers That's phenomenal and these pictures are just Yeah, it's easy That one right there. I I saw that one right here and I was just like what is what is happening right now You know, if you like then now we're able to see through those dust clouds and see what's over You know beyond it or what's inside it. So it just doesn't look real Yeah No, it really doesn't it like it looks like like the backdrop of like a star wars poster or something I'm gonna be real with you And the quality on it, you know, it's so crisp like Yeah, once they start doing the planetary studies, that's really what I'm looking forward to of seeing You know what What's in some of the atmospheres of the planets and you know, can they detect life on some of these other planets? So good That that's going to be absolutely crazy. Um, this was this the first one. This was the first one. So this Thinking, you know, and each one of those is is not just a planetary system. Those are galaxies Which billions of planets by each one of those Things really It's like almost oppresses me though because the odds of us finding out anything about these places While we're still here kind of small, you know Not unless somebody comes and visits us Yeah, I mean, I'm sure it'll happen at some point, but it's gonna take time and it's just but we have to under we have to come up with a way to Be able to travel at light speed. So if any all these young engineers come up with that, that's right Well, that is so cool, man, and uh You know, I I don't There's no words for I'm just looking at this. It's just super Incredible and I think a lot of us don't even understand fully what we're looking at to be fair I mean, I look at this and I'm like, wow, that's super cool But now I need to go read a a book or like well, they don't have psychopedias anymore I mean, they should but you know what I mean, like I need to go You gotta think of it another thing that's like that really blows my mind is that Some of those that they're saying are billions of years Oh It has taken that photon. I think that's the proper name about, you know A billion years to get to us or what however light however long that uh, like what so a billion light years to get that Pixel to us to be able to see it. So whatever we're seeing Is over a billion years old So, I mean, we're seeing in the past Wow And so that's and to hear the scientists talk about it is is is yeah, that really hurts your head Well, uh, you know, I know we're we're a little late. We uh had to restart the stream and hopefully audio has been good Saying it isn't so that's pretty cool Any cool stuff? I know we got walley moving now again in any any fun projects that you're working on That you can talk about now like I know you said 2.0's coming. Yeah 2.0's coming He'll be done probably in the next month. So that'll put him at about a three month build I hope And then after that we've got a few things for um, some other star wars droids we're going to be working on and then We also work, you know, while I do a shameless plug while we're here is the The kiber control system. Uh, so we're going through an update on that Um, and be pushing that out here probably in the next month or so Um, so if anybody's interested in that go to the kiber control facebook page and what's that What is that? Just so we know, um, it's a control system for it's what walley uses So it basically turns your rc transmitter into it gives you a button pad so that now you can play yourself On this button pad instead of having to have a different A different controller or something that you would have to use bluetooth with or something like that So it's an all rc system. That's awesome and it does all of your sounds and it does Motions through the mystero motion controllers No programming needed to use one of these it's all It's all web based So you can just put, you know, log into it Through a wi-fi and then you can do all of your settings and stuff in there So we tried to make the system really easy for Beginners to start picking up and using And mainly because we want people to go to rc for their controllers because it's safer Um, the bluetooth and stuff are great. You can hide them. You can keep them in your pocket But you're limiting yourself on uh, your range for one and then Losing those signals and losing control of your drawings. So We have a runaway walley Oh That would be awesome Are you doing you were at wonder con and you were at celebration? Are you guys going to san diego? Yes, we will be at san diego common con. Okay, let me know where you're gonna be. I want to confine you Reach out to me on facebook. We'll be there with me and we'll have rusty also very fun You know So that's the the other little droid that's fun to drive. He's a little picture Like are you do you have a table or anything? Are you just going to be walking? Uh, we'll just be walking. We'll probably go from the hotel and Bring him down and just do like a day or two with him and then do the rest of the con without any droids We didn't droid booth this year. I wish we had Shannon you're gonna have to connect with uh, matt we got to get some pictures As long as i'm not in rescue because that's just going to be a project Fly when i leave me alone right now. Sorry Um, yeah, so it's going to be interesting, but i'm there all four days. So i'm excited Yeah, it's gonna be a fun day to pack yes Well, well, uh anything else geary do you have any questions for matt before we go? I need to upgrade sometime soon We need to we need to upgrade you Yeah We can do the team of experts We need a we need an animatronic, uh body for me for when we go to shows so that i can drive around That would be awesome. We should we should make a like a full body geary And then when we we do shows we could uh have geary Like his head is you know his head and then like he gets to walk around and yeah, that would be awesome Knowing me all I would get is I get to be one of the gears in like walley's track system Like it's just me in there. That's it. That's about as far as it goes What we're gonna do is we're gonna put you on a cell phone screen and we'll just carry you Nice well, uh, thank you for bearing with us tonight. I know we had a crazy stream in the beginning We're gonna re upload and hopefully uh, it'll be okay with that and then you know, thanks for joining us. Um I man, I cannot in words say thank you enough for the project you worked on with the help with the telescope and and uh You know, I can't wait to see where this thing goes and it's really cool to say hey I talked to somebody in person well, you know, virtually in person That had like a lot of hands-on experience with that Uh, and and anytime you want to come back. We will love to see your new stuff We would love to see any new droids or Uh, the new when you get the new control system if you want to come on and talk about that We would love to hear about that because I did uh, you know, one of the battle racers tripod is with us And really he built it.  He sabotaged it. It broke down. Uh, that's not true But it's fun to say, um, but we would it's really cool because I wonder if we can incorporate stuff that you're working on into those um, you know the little projects and stuff that We work on as well. So we'll have to talk about that Collaborations, so I mean if there's anybody that ever has some cool ideas the whole marway We'll just see what we can do with it Oh, I love it. Well, we'll check out. Um, can you shout out the group one more time? Which group the uh, the facebook group the one that? Oh And then if you want the kiber control, which is k-y-b-e-r Uh systems, uh, you can check that out there. I'm also on instagram and Uh tiktok under matt droids Matt droids Find me on those m-a-t-t-s droids. Nice and we'll have all those in the description below uh Anything else shannon before we take off Well, not from me guys. Um, my head's fried right now trying to pack so I can get to san diego But yeah, thanks for coming and talking to because it's the whole space thing is like it blows my mind And then it puts me into this like position though where I sit here and I'll think about this now for the rest of the night So No, that's so cool. I hope you guys I hope you guys connect I would love to see like a picture or with you in any of the droids too and and uh, I'll try no, um I don't think you'll be with us next monday, right? You'll be in the air. I think it'd be flying back Um, yeah, so well, well, I think next next monday. I think this is the 25th We have uh, our friends at cookie cat on so come join us for that We're going to talk about some really cool stuff with cookie cat on the 25th and uh, yeah anything else Geary anything else before we go No, i'm good Matt hang out right there. We'll be right back with you everybody else. Thank you for bearing with us tonight Thank you for being here and we will see you next week right here on hot makes See you later everybody


The narcissist comes back right after this. At some point the narcissist starts disregarding the rules. They start treating you unfairly. In a way that is unjustifiable and unacceptable because they're not concerned about you anymore. They've got someone else and that is when they start mercilessly putting you down because they've already been messing around behind your back so they've got someone waiting to take your place. Which is why you will notice that their behavior just seems to get worse. There's more and more arguments. They're more disrespectful because this new person they're dealing with has them feeling like they don't need to respect you. So they become reckless and careless. They become heedless of the consequences of their actions.   They think they've got a better deal somewhere else because they've been talking to someone behind your back so now they think that they can disrespect you because they're going to leave anyway. They see anything they have with you as something temporary as something that isn't going to last long. This new person gives them the confidence to treat you however they choose to because they're over there establishing something with someone else. But for some strange reason they still keep coming back to you and it makes you wonder why because they said all of these bad things about you. They said you're nothing. They said they didn't want to be around you anymore. So why are they still lurking in the shadows? Why are they still checking in on you? And that is how you should know that everything they said was a lie. They didn't really believe that about you. They just had to create a problem. They had to create a reason to justify the movement forward with someone else because they know that behind the scenes they're the ones who have been doing you wrong so they want to look like a good person as though it was something you did that caused them to move on. When you didn't really do anything they just thought the grass was greener on the other side. They were looking for the bigger better deal. They were looking for the next shiny new toy and they found something they thought was good enough to replace you. So they created confusion and certainty and a lack of order so that they could hurry up and get rid of you because now they have a reason but that's not really the cause of it. Their mind was just more focused on the other person who was pressuring them to leave you. So they had to make a decision and they decided to move forward. They decided to cut you off because they thought things were going to be better for them and they got an illusion of that in the beginning because things always go well at the start especially when they love bombing this new person and they've given them all of their attention. If they had done those things for you there wouldn't have been an issue but they move on and give that to someone else so of course things are going to go well in the beginning because they're just getting to know each other. So they can't find any faults because nothing has gone wrong yet so everything seems charming and endearing which is why narcissists are addicted to the beginnings of a relationship because then they have a clean slate they have an absence of restraints and commitments and they don't have to consider what has happened in the past. They can start again which is why they're constantly seeking new people they don't value anything they already have they don't value anyone who's already with them and knows them which is why nothing you did was ever enough for them they were never satisfied or filled you did more than enough for them but they were still bored because they had gotten used to you it was not like a new or exciting when everything is normal and functionable the narcissist gets bored they start looking elsewhere because they're unable to relax in that type of environment so they will desire something new and in the beginning it may be fun for them but then when things start getting serious and it's time for them to start building that's when they have an epiphany they start to realize that they're in the same position as when they were with you so there was no reason for them to leave you they left you because they thought they would get a better deal they thought things would be better for them but it wasn't so once the fun is over they start thinking about you again and that is why they check in on you that is why they monitor your activities and development that is why they keep you under observation because they know they did you wrong they know they treated you badly and unfairly they come back because their new situation didn't pan out as they expected it to because things didn't go as they had planned because they can't deal with failure so they need something to make them feel better maybe the other person they were with left them for someone else so now they want to quickly come back to you so that they still feel wanted and so that they can get one over on the other person so that they don't look like a fool the narcissist comes back when things inevitably go wrong with the other person they come back with fake apologies and sob stories they come back with false epiphanies and some of them may even get their family members involved they will get their family members to tell you that they miss you to make you think that they have changed they will get their friends to tell you that they will never cheat on you they will never do anything to hurt you until you start to believe it until you decide to give them another chance because you think things are going to be better this time but it never works out that way it just gets worse and they go back to doing the same things again they do the same things that caused the problem of the first time which is how you should know that they're fake they didn't mean anything they said they just wanted to see if they could get you under their thumb again which is why many of them will still be in contact with the other person even after they come back to you the person they left you for they will come back telling you that things are going to be different but they're still talking to them because as long as they think someone's a fool they will always be there they will never completely leave them alone they will still consider them as an option which is why you should never let the narcissist back in you should never think that they have changed because they're just going to use that as an opportunity to hurt you even more they're never going to change anything because they're used to living in that way they're quite comfortable with instability and disorder they don't mind laying in their own filth so it wouldn't bother them if they should have to experience that again but whatever they were trying to accomplish it didn't work out and that is why they want to come back to you they only come back because they failed elsewhere you never meant anything to them you may remember those times when you used to cook food together or when you used to walk on the beach holding hands or when you used to laugh and joke and tell funny stories and some of you may have lots of pictures and videos of them on your phone and it brings back memories, it makes you reminisce you indulge in this recollection of past events but you need to understand that none of that was real that person never even existed if they did they would be there for you they would be by your side they never would have allowed you to go through all of that on your own they would have been in your corner because they would have had the same feelings that you had for them but they didn't feel anything and that is how it was so easy for them to leave you that is how it's so easy for them to come back after everything they've done like nothing happened like you never went through anything so don't let those memories influence your decision making it may have been real for you but it wasn't real for them because they're unable to experience that they don't develop close bonds or meaningful connections the only thing they care about is themselves and that is never going to change no matter how much you may want it to if you take them back, they're just going to do the same things again they're going to do the same things they did that hurt you in the first place you may feel lonely and it's normal you may remember those times when you used to sit on the couch and watch movies together those times when you would just lay on the bed and do nothing but none of that was real because they were never really invested in you but you think about those times and it makes you wonder how these things could cause them to move aimlessly from place to place because you don't understand what went wrong and then they finally come back and you think things are going to get better you think things are going to be different but they're not coming back because they miss you they're not coming back because they're sorry for what they did to you they're coming back because things didn't work out elsewhere and they're using you to compensate for their failures they're using you to free themselves from what distresses and harms they can feel better but they will never tell you the truth they come back with all the answers and excuses they always have a reason for why they did what they did or they come back to you like nothing happened like they never did anything wrong because they have no intention of making things right thank you for watching if you found this video helpful please give it a thumbs up share your thoughts in the comment section hit the subscribe button to receive the notifications if you would like to support the channel you can donate at paypal.ame slash narcciviver you can book a one on one with me on my website it's narcciviver.co.uk thank you for watching and I'll talk to you soon