Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am very pleased to have back our old friend of the show Brooks Tegeler Brooks welcome back Glad to be here old friend old friend. Yeah, it's been It's been a few years you were you were on a really early episode here where we did a biography of Jean Krupa Which I'll tell people that we're gonna talk a little bit about Jean's background As a as a you know as a person but But Brooks did episode 7 of the podcast which was really a deep dive into Jean's life But what we're talking about today is Brooks has just released On Hudson digital his book that he's been working on for basically a decade Gk the tools that built the Jean Krupa legend.  That's pretty huge. Thank you. Thank you.  I really talked about it in our episode, but Man, I mean tell it here is the irony there of all of that is the fact that you know a lot of people have been expressing an interest in seeing the book for several years ever since I started talking about it and I I got to I got to the point where I was actually feeling Like, you know, am I am just posing here because I you know I would keep talking about this book coming out and then nothing was there So I had to pick a spot where I finally just said, okay, I'm gonna close this and You know, maybe there's a there's a new chapter or a new portion or whatever which I can add to later Which is the cool thing about? Digital books that you can you were telling me before before we started when we were kind of getting our technical stuff figured out that you can Add on to this book later. Yeah, I've never really thought about that. So cool. Yeah Well, I gotta say that probably one of the greatest people I've worked with in my life is Rob Wallace And when he told me that that was actually not not only was it possible, but it was okay and preferred that solved a huge dilemma for me because As I've said to a number of friends of mine There's 320 pages in that book, but there's probably another five hundred pages in my head and You know who wants to get an 800 page book? So that's a lot. Yeah, I love the fact plus. I've also true experience With things like John Hancock's marvelous book on the Carnegie Hall concert Yeah, a lot of information doesn't actually appear until something like that is is published Yeah, so, you know, I'm still anxiously waiting for that guy who says, yeah My grandfather won that gene group of snare drum in 1936 and it's up in my attic, you know Yeah, so that's the information that would be coming out is more info on You know, they find something hidden somewhere or like that Uh, you know Container full of drums that you authenticated for yeah watts, which right we'll touch on later. Um And and I should tell people too that I'm gonna I'm gonna try and start doing it with every episode, but um Brooks is kind enough. He's gonna help me and do like an extra little 20, you know 15 20 minute patreon bonus episode that we're gonna record So if you like this and want to hear more I think we're gonna talk about gene kind of as a celebrity and a little bit just more about Brooks and his involvement and then who knows what we'll just kind of see what happens There'll be some extra stuff on an on a bonus episode. You can get through joining patreon at drumhistorypodcast.com but um anyway on that note Uh So Brooks, I think maybe I think a lot of people know about gene krupa. Um, he's just Just this, you know, legend in the drum world of being such like a gentleman and he's a celebrity and and I've always had a I don't know why I mean, I do know why I've always had sort of a connection with him because my grandpa Who was kind of why I got into drums? Um grew up in in you know more of the upstate new york area and would always tell these stories of like Hey, uh hanging out at like and not you're gonna know Obviously, you know so much more than me but hanging out at like eddie condon's bar and things like that and I think that and he was taught by george wetling for a little bit and um And they just kind of crossed paths. I think with gene being a yonkers guy, but um, anyway on that note That's kind of why I've always just loved gene and had this sort of Been drawn to him, but why don't you? give us the uh the kind of the the 10 cent tour here of like a little bit about gene Top level if people want to hear more go to episode seven and really get the deep dive But like who is gene? Why is he so important? And uh, what was his you know, what is his legacy? well, I think probably most know I mean any drummers Over the age of six Are you know aware of the gene was born chicago 1909 yesterday was indeed his birthday. Yes um and The beginnings of his career were always I mean they've been over dramatized and terrible movies about him But I'll stay off that so box um He He was immediately fascinated by music Um, he started out as playing saxophone not drums um drums are an affordable option in Catalog where he was the music store. He was working with his older brother So he got those but obviously it was I think more than just the fact that they were the cheapest thing in the book Um, he was always fascinated by playing. He was always fascinated by the different sounds the different voices, etc Etc. He carried that innocence about that instrument straight through his entire life Loved had a just a voracious appetite for learning anything and everything about Precaution and drums and drumming was smart enough. I think force forward thinking enough To listen to some cylinder recordings of expeditions to To africa where they recorded african drummers. That's cool. And So much of what became his signature Floor tom work was based predominantly on that um And One has to assume the genes sat down and worked out patterns By ear when he was young Yeah, because it wasn't until later in his career that he actually was able to read and transcribe music but his ears were A direct solid connection to his arms his wrists and his hands And he was able to put what he heard In practice Quickly, obviously But obviously growing up in chicago hanging out in the jazz scene of chicago. It's included people like dave tough baby dots or as he used to say in his chicago accent baby dots And people like that He came from a much more raw jazz upbringing Then the people that he eventually started to hang out with in new york And brought all that influence with him Moved to new york in the late 20s got married to ethyl and Started his just rocket The trip to success with benny goodman Where a lot of the innovations in drums and drumming were actually taking place in the late 30s mid to late 30s By 38 it started his own bands because he always wanted to Because everything's he wanted to do the first thing he did was add a second floor tom Which was you know details about that particular drummer in the book Most drummers were not using a 16 by 20 inch 20 lug floor tom And he made good use of quite a few of them Yeah, so and then it gets you know the the rest of the details of his career The whole focus shifted from chicago to new york But one of the things i learned while working on this book was how much new england Had become a pivotal area in his life and his career Well, uh, I don't know for certain, but I believe not one but both of his wives were actually from new england interesting, um is many many adventures to the zilgin plant in quincey massachusetts this the tune massachusetts was a huge hit for him in the band and Many many other connections many of his good friends People that he would just go visit Were in new england. They were in massachusetts They were you know, I mean there was so much going on in places like boston in those days He toured quite a lot with benny Where I think a lot of these friendships were originally generated And these are people that gene was friends with his entire life um And it was just kind of interesting to learn Because you don't think about it most people know anything about gene. They think chicago and then new york And it stops there. Well, he you know, he established friendships, of course all over the country In many respects all over the world, but there was something about new england that just kind of Keeps coming up Yeah So there must have been a hell of a jazz scene in boston You know boston even today I run into things where like i'll meet people through the show and a lot of really great Just people like hard-working drumming, you know people it I'm never surprised when they say I live in you know, boston or new england like our mutual friend Don mccally who's just been you know Oh that guy. Yeah You know probably probably one of the greatest people i've ever worked with and met don is just wonderful guy Exactly and he's a new england guy, but um, yeah, so you know Good uh good good folk there. Yeah, but I think also the fact that uh, so much of the drum industry started there Exactly, you got your jordan's own. Yeah. Yeah So it just a fascinating little sideline Um to learn while going through a lot of this research And of course as I said, you know genes influence spread Worldwide, I mean there are people who are staunch, you know Fyke to the death gene group of advocates in places like the uk and and france germany places where gene went um It's just a monumental influence All over the place and it continued Um straight through I have to say, you know When he started his band in march of 38 When he put the when he closed down the big band in 51 Went along with jazz at the philharmonic and small group things like that television appearances. I mean it really I've always said and I say it in the book He's the drum counterpart to louis armstrong in my opinion Yeah, that's a good one where it basically it changed the world. Yeah in in one way or another even if you know joe schmoe in you know, um It's cheboygan doesn't really know about gene krupa in some way. It's affected the music down the line You know, I mean absolutely the music and the equipment And I have to say probably to a certain extent The demeanor of drummers. Yeah, I don't think I've ever noticed a deeper sense of community With other instrumentalists that I've seen with drum. I agree completely, you know I mean I I need us to say Leading working with hundreds and hundreds of horn players If you get two guys together that have the same selmer mark six, they'll talk for days But all it takes is one guy showing up with his yamaha alto And in that sense of community goes straight out the window Now I've even seen it with us drummers where like, you know, you're sitting at like a Like it happened to me once like at a dentist's office and you see someone like Tapping their fingers in a certain way and you go You I even said to one guy was like are you a drummer and then and he was like, yeah I am and it's like you can tell because obviously you're if you're tapping in a A rhythm and hitting your foot and it's like right there you get this like This bond and and it happens a lot with even I'd say musicians I had a handyman hanging up like a chandelier in my house the other day and He was a guitarist There was this like total cosmic change in like how we talked After we found out we're musicians, but if it's drummers you go even Even deeper, but Yeah, do you think with gene? Um And to kind of bring your book into this so so obviously again to hear the whole story on gene go to the episode seven, but um Gene obviously is a is a is a handsome guy He was at the right time when jazz was booming. I mean it's almost like gene was like The perfect storm of like Right place right time right guy Gear is changing the world is changing. It's becoming more more modern roaring 20s. Um What's your thoughts on that? I mean he just came in at the right time Like I do believe that with any successful career Probably the bulk of that success can be attributed to just luck You know, I mean it could have been the gene had refused to join benny's band Because buddy rogers was paying him so much money He couldn't leave that gig and history would have been quite different So sure, I mean fate has a lot to do with it, but it's what people do Once that luck shows up and gene Came through as it were. I mean he he he probably There are a number of things I refer to in the book about his Nervousness about starting his own band as bad as badly as he wanted one He was scared to death and thought several times about just bagging the whole thing As many side men or people who abuse to be side men Will do it's quite a step because as I've said Based on my own experience There's a certain element of the minute you start your own band you cease your musical development Because all of a sudden you're somebody else.  Yeah boss, right? Things change a little bit sure and they changed a lot for gene, but Gene never changed himself. He admitted that it it went to his head for a while um But he also frankly was the victim of other people Not wanting to let him be successful um, so He you know slings and arrows and all of that sort of thing was quite applicable to gene Outrageous fortune being that there were people who just wanted to knock him off any pet the story came near They still do There are plenty of people out there who just cannot Will not acknowledge the value of this man And his legacy and what he's done for jazz and drumming They can't even bring themselves to call him a jazz drummer Um, so their loss in my opinion, but yeah, he came through. I mean he He did it with class. He did it with taste And you know, there's just nobody Like it never has been Except possibly Louis Armstrong Yeah, you know and and we'll talk about him and buddy rich later a little bit in the show, but there's there's like that You know That guy where everyone loves buddy, but they're not and people I always post whenever I post a video of of the gene krupa buddy rich Battle quote unquote someone always goes. Oh man, buddy's blowing the doors off of him you know and but it's it's Different it's just a different type of of um of drumming and and obviously as a person and um gene is known as being such a nice guy and buddy's famous for having an attitude Well true and unfortunately, this is something that I always have an issue with this In that in particular that sammy davis jr. Show recording. Yep shows an unfortunate Bad moment for gene And to look at it out of context is in my opinion not really fair Um because it was the beginnings of gene's bad health Directly affecting how he played Well, he got seven years later. I mean he it's not I mean he was It's towards the end of his life. Yeah and it doesn't show gene in The light that it should okay. I mean it's fine. It's real It's true gene and you know the to me the greatest accomplishment about that particular clip Is what gene's able to do in spite of his own illness um and Without that as the preface To watching that video. It just looks like He's you know He shouldn't be there next to buddy And the whole thing about buddy was that He always realized that as far as slingerland and an endorsement Gene was the guy and he always seemed to interpret that as competition And yet at the same time there was no greater advocate for gene than buddy. Yes So again, it's so much more complicated And I hate to say it but there are lots of people out there that just go for that shiny object stuff You know when they and don't apply any depth to what they're seeing or what they're showing And you know, there's their volumes written about that kind of thing that just really mean very little in it You know in the grand sense of what gene is all about what buddy was all about Exactly Yeah There uh, it's it's it's not apples and oranges in a way, but it's it's just different people Yeah, but and and I love that. I know I know you talked about it in our other episode where Like you said a second ago, buddy just was such a big fan of gene and and there's not this competition and I mean really there they're both Two of the I mean, obviously you have your john bonhams and you have all these guys who were such famous drummers but those two guys are household names to this day where Everyone knows them. So I think just that alone is there's plenty of room to be You know and the fact that In my opinion again, you're the expert So but like the fact that gene was the one who was basically like the you know with sing sing sing and stuff like that was the first guy to really Do these kind of drum solos he really paved the way For what buddy could do even they're not that far apart in age. I mean isn't There's seven years different. Yeah, not that big of a difference, but when the world of music is completely changing I mean seven years Yeah, it was it was a considerable difference. The irony is the fact his buddy Of course, excuse me was playing drums before gene Um because of his because of his fogbill career sure and I this is one of those things that Um Frankly it bugs me a lot that people can't resist this They cannot accept two things without making a comparison. Yeah, and it's a comparison that has no value at all You know if you could make a comparison because you're buying one or the other And you could go factually down the list of pros and cons for each one That's not what you do in art in music with you know It's it's it's something that Should just be left alone Frankly, there's buddy gene. There's morello. There's there's butch. There's I mean, you know exactly Yeah, well, okay. So on that note, we'll leave it alone. So I want to talk more about your book because I mean it almost I mean again. I recommend people get it Um, what's before we talk about it? What's the easiest way for people to get this book? Is it going to Hudson music calm and Searching for it there. Is that probably the quickest way to get it? I believe so and I believe it's still in the new releases portion of their website, but yeah, that would be just you know straight the hudson public I think it's just hudson music Yeah.com and you can do a search and you'll see type in gk or whatever and it should be popping up there but yeah, so When i'm looking through this book, I mean and I I knew from you know Seeing some of your work that you sent me last time where you're authenticating the drums for charlie watz that we've talked about in another episode. I believe episode 14 with brooks, but um It it's almost like a court document where there's like arrows. It's so like Like like what snare is this what I mean? It has so much detail. I'll take that as a compliment bark Compliment. I mean it is the most like Just detailed and and and and and like uh, what's the word i'm looking for just uh, you you went through everything with a fine-tooth comb and And basically it's everything you'd ever want to know about jeans gear And and everything like year by year almost month by month.  Let's say The throw-off on a particular snare or whatever you can pick a you know subject, but What how are you doing this? How are you making all of these? Um, you know unbelievable findings and Well, a lot of a lot of it has to do with my own personal knowledge of the equipment The fact that I've been a collector of slingerland and radio king drums since 19 Good grief 78 I guess 79 So I have firsthand experience on a lot of the nuances of that particular kind of drums And of course, you know a lifelong study of gene There are things you can recognize That most people don't even pay attention to that are the the details the nuances that If you have the photographs of gene Then you have a support system for Showing what stuff was I can remember as a kid looking at pictures of gene still with benny Where I'm looking at a snare drum and there are four holes Underneath the throw-off Well, I had to find out what that meant Well, okay, that meant further study. So it was all just this ongoing cascade of gathering information Studying pictures. I mean I I've been accused by Friends of you know zoning out while I'm staring at a picture There's so much in one picture that to find Yeah, that I would you know, I mean I used to do the same thing just looking through the slingerland catalog And you know so looking at details like The fact that there's a nine by 13 tom tom On gene's lap in a particular movie scene Realizing right away what that drum is Realizing it's the same drum that shows up everywhere for like 10 years um, it's a matter of Maybe it's just because I'm such an ardent Sherlock Holmes fan That you know one Deduction leads to the next answer, but it also leads to like 20 more questions. So that's all I've done You know, it's it started with pictures Looking at films of gene playing That of course is what probably Sets me apart from my dear friend jerry Brennan Jerry has a phenomenal knowledge of of recordings of gene And hundreds of other drummers too. I mean, it's the kind of thing where I marvel at what he knows as far as Dates times places personnel stuff that I could never retain so I guess you know if we would ever sit down and do a conference about gene We would pretty much with the help of paul testa be able to cover every detail about gene's entire life Yeah, but that's pretty much it It's just looking at pictures really is where it starts And of course the desire to do it And I mean it's to explain a little bit about the detail like I mean, so the book you said is 320 Pages, right? Right.  There's the felt seas using to prop it up in a way I mean there are Photos from all the movies. There's segments on I mean right right here. There's the tilt on his ride symbol There's There's so many cool things.  Like I know that there's the like at the chicago drum show where it was set up was it was You know, he had the dynasonic that came out and and I don't think he used it much but In in the big picture, are there many things that you in your 10 years of working on this? We're just totally surprised by like, uh, you know that just you didn't think Be and then it turns out there it is Well, I would have to say that the existence of the two dynasonics Was certainly a big one on that list Although I agree. I don't think he liked them Uh his His ex-wife referred to them as the buddy snares And it's like the story of the guy in australia that popped up on facebook recently I'm afraid I can't remember his name But he was a student of jeans Jean gave him a Ludwig snare drum That reportedly was given to gene by buddy You know again all of these things and that has a lot to do with why I started this book also And I it would not surprise me that buddy just you know I really like this snare drum gene. You should try it and handed it to him You know, I mean, buddy certainly didn't have the same affection for what he was using for the most part Yeah, that gene did Um and so yeah, I think that these are things that Um how many years, you know as the rumor Been flying around the gene had a dynasonic And then of course the question is where did that rumor start? So, yeah, that was a big shocker Um I don't know I'd have to give Some thoughts Um, I think I mean there were so many discoveries that I made Through the course of working on this book They were quite surprising And yet at the same time because of the way they were discovered They made perfect sense. So I think that took a little the edge off the excitement Uh, the special tom mount system that gene used and I saw what is that? What's the special tom mount system? Well, it's a it was a flat bar system That somebody at slingerland came up with That as I say in the book there were there were times when gene indeed was the The guinea pig user of you know Of every hair brain scheme that ever came out of the company This was one of those where The idea was to have absolute and complete adjustability And that was done with continuing to use the rail consulate base But have a different rod and a different system Mounted on the tom tom shell, which was basically just a flat bar Clamped onto the rod Or the rod clamped onto the flat bar you could slide it up and down Nearly the entire length of the shell It didn't work. It was absurdly heavy Yeah But gene actually used that mount system on at least two of its tom tom And you can see that in uh quite a few pictures between the probably 48 And 53 And then of course it was gone. Well The age old story about the nine by 13 that was Allegedly stolen from the loading dock behind the tree and on ballroom That happened to show up in don bennett's collection And was for sale The first thing I noticed because there's always people who would contact me and say is this really gene And I would have to oftentimes say I need to see more pictures than just one Yeah, I looked at and I said, uh, there they are the two holes That originally held that flat bar mount So I knew that drum was genes from the very beginning I did some research and found out what dates he was at the tree and on And how they corresponded To the drum itself No question drum verified Um As far as a lot of the other what would seem more generic drums the gene had They all had little nuances little details The bass drum that's up in At the zilgen plant Um has the original painted head on it It does not have the original hardware on it Because it turns out after talking to the guy who donated the stuff to the zilgen It was all changed because the original lug casing for following apart Uh, so yeah, I mean, you know Interesting digging with a big shovel, but at times being able to use a spoon if you have to And that's that's my metaphor for the day That's a that's a good one I want to ask you about a super specific kind of random one. I just kind of scrolled by it, but I'm I'm very interested in this Uh, sort of minor little detail about genes drums, but it's it's a big one that you see all the time It's the stage screw Which I'm always interested in that because right now we take for granted the fact that you know there's uh There's there's things now literally created to stop it like the kick block and the k-brakes and stuff and and the the the Spurs are stronger, but So can you explain what a stage screw is? These were these are cast iron um giant screws um And usually had three holes or four And the whole point was in order to secure a base drum from moving forward You would set the base drum and then you would run this screw straight into the floor And it would be the block that the later rim mounted um What you know called anchors Yeah served the same purpose Did they have while we're talking about the gear? A lot of times bass drums before then you know earlier would be a marching bass drum that was converted But like there still were on these era of drums like You know spurs like feet coming off right for some stability But it wasn't stopping the sliding as well as drummers right and I I think there's some misconception about what those Rim mount spurs were for they as you say they were for stability. So the thing didn't roll over um But there were any number of innovative ideas about how to keep the bass drum from walking away Yeah, not least of which was tie a rope to the bass drum pedal Clamp that down and then tie the other end of that rope to your seat And you know that worked okay as well um So and then you can still see film clips of guys I saw on the other day and I can't think of what it was Where they've done nothing about stopping the bass drum and spend half their time pulling the bass drum back towards them Yeah, there's a wonderful picture of gene in 42 Playing a concert that was a tribute to fath's waller and One of the shots when he's in obviously in the middle of a solo Is the bass player John Kirby leaning forward Standing to the right of gene's bass drum holding it in place Which you'd you know, you'd think that somebody would have figured out To at least get the poor guy a rug something anything to keep this bass drum from wandering around But there's you know, there's a legendary bass player Leaning over holding gene's bass drum in place while gene played. I've always loved that picture That's so cool. And I there's a video of elvin jones. I think it's elvin jones.  He was playing with some guys. There was a guy playing like a um A clarinet and then I think there was a bassist and he was on the drums And his bass drum had a big cinder block in front of it for obvious reasons, which that's another way We've all done that we've all played a gig where you go. Oh my god. I don't have a A rug. Give me something heavy. Yeah, put it in front of this thing right Well, again, I mean so much of the of the development of drum equipment And like any other equipment, I guess you could say was based entirely on need um, and Yeah, I mean, it's the only way you could get your bass drum to stop walking across the floor Was to tie it to your leg Then you know so be it And And it's I guess it's another contribution that gene made that there were many things that were figured out Based on his use of these things are and you know innovations in Virtually every piece of equipment that he had That he would try first or he and a few others would try but case in point the Fully tunable tomtoms You know that was all gene how they were done was sam rollin, but it was gene who actually was the one who made it happen um Yeah Before that as you know, but maybe people don't know that they would be tacked on heads which couldn't be Tuned right other than other than with heat or humidity sure. Yeah. Yeah, but again He had the first as far as I've been able to tell he had the first American made tacked head That was um Seen by most people the other thing people need to remember is the fact that We didn't have a system of communications visual communications that we have now So the only time somebody would actually have been able to see one of gene's drum sets is if they were there And you know, of course somebody in california Had no idea what gene's drums look like unless they saw a picture in downbeat Until they came to whatever the palomar or the You know some other place so the information transfer was much slower Yeah, which is sort of uh The level of celebrity he got to um It just it's it's that much more impressive that there wasn't you know posting something on facebook or doing all these uh these little things he had to You know word of mouth spreads which which I do think also is kind of more of like a There's like a he's like legendary in that regard obviously He definitely earned his fame. That's no question about it And a lot of the earning of that fame came from his equipment You know, I mean look at what happens I posted this the other yesterday um To the finish white marine pearl which originally was not called white marine pearl. It was just called marine pearl um, the white was added later, but Look looked at what what gene can be credited for there You know, um He chose he liked that finish who knows why Uh his first 28 inch slingerland bass drum was white marine pearl It's to this day probably The most popular most revered Drum finished of all Yeah, you know, and I would be willing to bet you because of the volume of influence that gene offered If gene liked orange sparkle, we'd all be playing orange sparkle sets today In some weird alternate universe Yeah, right for gold satin flame, you know Yeah, no, it's kind of there's like a um Gosh, there's there's just like a like an like an excellence There's just like a like a beauty to white marine pearl that it really goes back to those to those guys. It's it's like, uh It's just a part of history. Um, yeah, I think it's it's elegant as gene was that's The perfect word. That's what I was trying to find Now while we're talking about gene's drums and and and you know his obvious huge impact All right, so how many of these You're you probably know about all of them I would think or most of them probably can't know about every single thing. Um, because it's still coming up But how many gene krupa drum sets? And in this gear is still out there like what's your take on all that? Well, there are isolated pieces and the the equipment that we put together for charlie Of the things that were discovered in 2018 Is probably actually the only true drum set complete Everything else is bass drums and there are uh There are quite a number of those actually Three were discovered in 2018, but I have authenticated at least three other ones Um of the earlier era the radio king period um and Tom tom's there a number of those out there too. Uh I think don still has the nine by 13 and the the uh My good friend joe lanny Has been building up his gene krupa collection g joe actually now owns the 13 I was talking about before with the flat bar mounts and Snare drums are the hardest thing even keep in mind that gene gave this stuff away um He didn't As his health started to fail. He obviously must have realized that He didn't need a lot of stuff Yeah, the bass drum that I authenticated that now lives in australia with andy He gave that to a bartender in vegas that wound up being an end table for the rest of its life Until the daughter contacted Bill nally and sent it back and now it lives in australia and it's rightful place as a bass drum instead of a table uh the the contribution that uh That michael stan made uh to zilgin Uh that bass drum is quite important Mostly for the front head more than anything else because it is indeed the original First version of the keep them flying head That was uh replaced by a cardboard Uh cardboard cover after the vet Um, that's all in the book. Um interesting So there there are lots of stuff and a lot of I have to say a lot of my motivation for this book was also Pointing out the things that were not Really changed. Yeah, which that has to come up a lot. I'm sure it does it comes up constantly Although I have to say less than it used to Um, I was the victim of that scam 40 years ago Good greatness I was well The stories in the book basically I was Ripped off with an alleged gene group of drum set and I was too stupid to realize But it didn't take more than a few months before I figured it out That still exists to this day. There are people out there who think they can Make a copy of something that gene owned And palm it off as belonging to gene And for me a great motivation for this book was to make sure that that doesn't happen anymore and I've there are a number that I left out of the book just Based on some good advice by my friend Chet Falls Arano um The original ideas I had about exposing all of these crooks Was probably a bit more negative than I should have been so okay. I took his advice, but I did include a few And that was mostly just sort of Letting people know that there are still people out there lying to them And it needs to stop because it's it's certainly not doing genes legacy any good And It's they thought it was so easy to do. Well This book is here to prove that it's not going to be that easy anymore. No not with not with brooks on the uh Watch not for everyone.  I mean, I've I've had that question posed to me numerous times And it's not easy to say well actually no um But it's preferable to Continuing a miss forever You know the multiple badge snare drum is a perfect example Um, that's a miss. It's just a lie And you know frankly needs to stop in my opinion So this at least gives everybody the opportunity to look at what they think they have and go Oh Okay, it's not really gene And you know you can do that in the privacy of their own living room with the Right get on hudson music.com. So you can go check your own uh Gene stuff. Wow. Yeah, that's um, I mean you're you're doing a good thing obviously just to keep keep it in check and stop It's it's so interesting that in every aspect. I think in every You know part of collectible stuff in the world. There's um There's people trying to fake something. Oh, yeah, you know and counterfeit, right? I'm also a world war two historian Have a sizable collection of clothing and equipment. You'd be amazed at the stuff that people pull them off as real You know, they'll get a decent copy of a leather a2 flight jacket and lay it out in the driveway and drive their car over it For a couple of days to make it look old. Yeah. Yeah, this might and they get away with it. That's the kicker You know, um, what's creepy is that? The market for german stuff And fakes is three times the size of anything else Wow. Um, yeah So but yeah, you're right. I mean there are people Jerry tells a story about a Collector of old music machines old record player And some of them are worth huge money and somebody was very proud of their acquisition until somebody said well It's actually not what you think um Kind of a devastating thing for a lot of people think they've got something really valuable Yeah, it's very uh, it's like Deflates you a little bit. Yeah Yeah, well, you know, we we are all very proud of ourselves based on what stuff we have Oh, yeah, I mean I've got a Toyota tundra pick up with 410,000 miles out in the driveway by golly And you know Yeah Toyotas man. I I have a Toyota Tacoma Um, kind of the the smaller brother. It's nowhere near what what 400 Man, they run forever, but they do they do their great cars. So the book is the book is there For anybody who's really interested in gene and his equipment And yeah, there are a couple of soapbox moments in there too, but you know, I can't resist Um, they're all it's also there so that they can contribute To the overall knowledge base about gene Um, hopefully someone would you know be able to answer a question of somebody else Based on what they've learned in the book Yeah, um now before we kind of wrap up here. What about his um, Billy Gladstone signature drum? I mean that's The black drum. I mean that's a beautiful drum. Was there any story behind that? Oh quite a lot there. I mean it was actually one of the earliest ones that Gladstone made um, and It's a prime example of a Gladstone snare as far as everything black lacquer finish um seven by 14 Uh, the only thing that really differentiated that drum from Gladstone's own gold one Was the color Um gene was intensely proud of that drum Oddly enough gene actually had two Billy Gladstone snare The second one I think was as jett mentioned I think the second one was Uh Possibly gene Just out of curiosity. It was black diamond pearl Uh, it's presently owned by uh Uh a friend and someone who helped immensely with the book Joe Vettrano um But the black one Gene absolutely revered In the right circumstances meaning it had gut snares Um, he was gene was apparently incensed When his black diamond pearl had come back from frank's in new york And somebody had changed it to wire snares That that to gene that was just sacrilege, you know, put wires and airs on a Gladstone. Come on um, the the black one I am very proud to say that I I spent the whole day with that drum and I played it Uh, yeah, it's it's actually a youtube clip of me playing on that snare Um, it was just amazing and again is one of the things that it's so much more fun to think about now Then I was really even quite aware at the time. What was, you know, here I was playing gene krupa's own black lacquer Billy Gladstone snare drum and desecrating it with some horrible drum solo And just just hoping it hoping that a gene spirit was out there. He was benign and being nice He would be happy. You know, he'd be he'd be nice.  Oh my god. I mean that has to be worth a fortune It is it's worth a lot of money, but um It's it's well cared for And hopefully, you know, as someone wise mentioned, we're you know, we're only caretakers of this stuff You know, we don't last forever. It will move on to somebody else All the way I must confess. I'm gonna be fascinated to see what happens to Mike Carrado's collection Yeah, god, when he was on the show 650 ish snares. I mean Unbelievable. That's a lot of dusting Mike Dusting yeah more dusting than I'd care to do. I'll pass. Okay. Yeah, well, I mean, I've I've had Since I moved here. I've had many many many slingerland radio king drums There's still more than 30 sets back there Wow But I you know the whole focus shifted Um to just collecting things that gene would have had replicas copies whatever Yeah, and that in itself has become quite an adventure You know, that's it's even harder. It's more indeed. Absolutely. And I've had to fabricate a few like the double Tack headed tom that he was using in 36. I had to make one myself Um And I'm guessing that probably because that was the only one ever made It's like the people get all excited about 14 by 14 floor toms I don't think many people realize that gene had the very first ones And they were there was 12 lugs six per end And they were radio games And you know the earliest one who shows up as early as 42 maybe even 41 Man what gene got what gene wanted from slingerland. I'm sure I believe he did yes And at the same time he never took advantage of that No You know, he was always very classy about his relationship with with slingerland A classy guy through and through absolutely kind of the Wow Okay, well brooks. Let's um so again people can go to hudson music dot com and just search Gk the tools that built The gene krupa legend and I'm gonna link to it So if you're you know, wherever you're listening to this if it's on the website or wherever I can go to the description and I'll have a little a link to that there. Um And if you've enjoyed hearing uh brooks talk, which I'm sure you have head over to drumhistorypodcast.com and click the patreon link um because we're gonna do a little episode Where I think it's about I mean and I'm not going to keep in every episode pushing it But I think every week I'm going to do that, you know for as little as two bucks a month You'll get an extra, you know 10 15 minute episode with uh with the guest so On that note, um brooks, I just Can't thank you enough for coming on and I am so happy for you that you got this book out Must be a huge relief. Um, so Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Thank you Bart my pleasure and thank you for doing all that you do If you like this podcast find me on social media at drumhistory and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning


Strike action, also called labor strike, labor strike, or simply strike, is a work stoppage caused by the mass refusal of employees to work. A strike usually takes place in response to employee grievances. Strikes became common during the Industrial Revolution, when mass labor became important in factories and mines. In most countries, strike actions were quickly made illegal, as factory owners had far more power than workers. Most Western countries partially legalized striking in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. Strikes are sometimes used to pressure governments to change policies. Occasionally, strikes destabilized the rule of a particular political party or ruler. In such cases, strikes are often part of a broader social movement taking the form of a campaign of civil resistance. Notable examples are the 1980 Grdansk shipyard or 1981 warning strike, led by Lekwalansa. These strikes were significant in the long campaign of civil resistance for political change in Poland, and were an important mobilizing effort that contributed to the fall of the Iron Curtain and the end of Communist Party rule in Eastern Europe.


I'm going to go to Gilded. Let's see this. Maybe we can have a look on it. Gilded. Let's check it out. Where's the second pick? Oh, that's the stadium. Oh, there is a second pick. Oh, dude, we got to share this. Thank you for pushing it. Panic. Hold on, gang. We're going to see this as well. Watch this. Panic, you rock. I think my stuff is there. Ready? Ready for this, gang? Here's a second pick from Roger Waters Concert. Okay. Awesome. Dude, phenomenal. Look at this. Look at this. 360-degree concert, too. Very cool. Very cool. That looks like a great show, man. That looks like a great show. Free Julian Assange. So, gang, do not forget. Do not forget. Free Assange. Free Assange. Free Assange. Julian Assange is a publisher and journalist that has been crucified for trying to be transparent in accountability of capitalist power to humanity. Something that me, you, our societies need desperately. For more information, see wikilees.org, defend wikilees.org, or to go to Roger Waters' concert.  Salute, salute, salute, salute. Nice. Powerful. Thank you very much for sharing that with us, Panic. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Nicely done. Nicely done.


We're going to begin an apology that we are a minute late. We'll try and make up that time a Very good morning and welcome to the session titled realising Africa century. My name is Nzinga Kunda I'm a business news anchor on the public broadcast in South Africa the SABC And it's my great pleasure to be your facilitator today as we take a look at Africa and what it needs to do to realize its potential Africa is the youngest and fastest growing continent in the world It's also home to over 60 percent of uncultivated arable land and as an abundance of minerals necessary for the energy Transition so how then do the public and private sector leaders take advantage of this? How do we move fully into Africa century? Joining me on the panel today are the president of the Swiss Confederation Alan Besse the head of government of Tunisia Professor Najla Bhuden the undersecretary general of the United Nations Winnie-Banema will join us a bit later on and The chairman of multi-choice in tears Patel Thank you all of you for being here just a reminder that the hashtag for this event is Hashtag with 23 for those joining us online on television That's what you can use to be part of the discussion for those of us joining us in the room We will be taking questions a little bit later on in the second part of this discussion Let's begin then professor Burden if I can start with you What are the priorities that you think are needed in order to unleash Africa's potential? Thank you If you're Pamela, I will talk in France. I'm more comfortable in France, but maybe I will shift From time to time. I think that oh Don't go. I think time has come for Africa to take charge In a context that you know the context of crisis imported crisis regarding the pandemic the crisis stemming from the Ukrainian war and other crises that are characterizing our continent including poverty for example, but also terrorism and obviously climate change our top priorities for Africa to take charge is To invest first of all invest in people the biggest potential of Africa is its youth and Its women the aspiration six of the agenda 2063 is that the African Union asked for the full potential of Africa to be unleashed through its youth and Women and this includes of course capacity building. It includes Encouraging the youngsters women to become Entrepreneurs, and we need to learn how to boost startup companies. This is our number one priority Then we need to reinforce our climate resilience the climate resilience of the planet all together The energy mix in spite of the huge potential of our planet In terms of solar energy wind power and geothermal well The fact is that so far our continent is Has not done much Tunisia is at 3.6 percent of renewables where in the rest of the world we're above 7% So this will be our second priority our third priority Will be to boost digital connectivity across the African continent yesterday. We talked about about the AFC FTA The African continental free trade area. We need greater connectivity across Africa, and this will boost Africa's economy and our fourth and last priority is South-South cooperation what I call triangular cooperation and greater international Cooperation we must find new solutions to allow the African continent to Shift out of this Crisis and I think we need to learn simply how to think out of the box. These are my four Priorities for Africa going forward to make Africa a more sustainable and more innovative continent Spoken about some of the things that make Africa so unique and make us so powerful as well whether it's the workforce Whether it's the innovation Digital and these many startups that she's saying are on the continent What is what about the African continent makes it ripe for this African century to be realized? Thank you very much and Zynga. I I have to rely on my notes I can't rely on my brain anymore. So I've made some notes and I've got a few points to make the first one is that Obviously, everybody knows it's a very young and a very large population and going to continue to grow and going to have Amongst the big large cities of the world in Nigeria in Tanzania and in other parts of Africa a fast-growing middle class 65% of the population is under the age of 35 That makes for a very very interesting market. The analogy I use often is if you think about India or 15 years ago I remember in 2002 we went to look at investing in broadcasting in India and There was a narrative within our own company people who had not been exposed culturally to you know to that part of the world saw it as as Infrastructure is poor dirty corrupt all those kind of really bad Connotations, right? But if you look at India today with that large population and they were quite poor, right? They've taken 400 million people into the middle class, right? It's a market where it's almost difficult to get in because the price of assets are so high all of those kind of things So I think in many ways for me Africa represents the Indian opportunity of 10 15 years ago The people are resilient super resilient They are hungry for growth and everybody wants a better life and I think to your point It's the spirit of the people one cannot ever underestimate People are tech savvy if you go anywhere in Nigeria people are so so tech savvy. It's unbelievable They are pockets in South Africa in the in the Western Cape in other parts of South Africa where I mean Kenya It's just like supremely tech savvy. So young people are Adopting and breaking the digital divide not because the platform is there, but they themselves want to want to break that Policy makers and I saw a lot of debate this morning Government and and business arguing with each other about who comes first and who doesn't we tend to take a generally positive view When I talk to policy makers and I listen to people I think there's a general awareness that they need to lay the foundations for growth So I'm quite positive that policy makers are are going to take us in the right direction as you've already mentioned The digital divide is narrowing and narrowing really fast We have natural resources like Sun and wind that will solve in the long run the renewal renewable energy problem and I think Ultimately if you look at the way we've handled the pandemic everything looks really positive For Africa in our view And let me bring into the conversation as someone from outside our continent for the last 12 years Switzerland has been ranked as the most innovative country in the world How can Switzerland best partner with Africa in order to foster more of the innovation that it's already been spoken about and that is already there as well So, thank you very much Thank you very much for having us for having me and this in this panel And it's a great honor to be here and to have this occasion to speak about innovation and Switzerland and what we can do together with Africa and first of all, maybe when we speak when talking about innovation. What do we mean with with that? I mean new processes. I mean new products and new services That gives you an advantage over your competitor That's the maybe it could be a definition and I we start right now if I may with the conclusion and The conclusion is for Switzerland. It is really important to work with African countries And to partner with African countries to support the creation of innovative ecosystems What does mean an innovative ecosystem? And we how can we can we could we reach that it is true exchange of know-how it is true technology transfer It is true investment in education in academic exchanges between our countries and in the support For startups and small and small businesses and that's the conclusion and how do we come to this conclusion and To explain that I must explain also something about Switzerland and innovative processes and innovation history of innovation in in in Switzerland and we have a very long history of innovation You know the watchmaking, you know the pharmaceuticals, you know the machine industry, you know the textiles, you know the chemistry You know the the banking sector, you know the blockchain, you know also the chocolate Chocolate making it is not it is not not so easy. It was really really innovative It was really innovative with the first factories in the 19th century century with the first the invention of the mix of Chocolate and milk. It sounds it sounds obvious today It was it was not obvious at the beginning and with order order Well very strong innovations and you know today chocolate. It's not just only chocolate chocolate is also a science It is a science and there is a chocolate working group led by a professor of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich and saying that I just want to tell you that innovation is this long history and The main point now is where does it come come from and How could we have the ecosystem to do that? This ecosystem are more or less always the same. I've always More or less the same construction. It is a mix of educational system Educational system high-class universities vocational training in Switzerland very well known it is a very close pragmatic collaboration between research institutions and Industrial partners and government at all levels it is To use and to have startups to test new ideas Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't work. It's okay. It is to have the presence also of multinational big firms that I push research and development they invest in research and development It is also to have the protection of intellectual property to have proper investments And also to have the digitalization to fossil solution and between Africa and Switzerland right now We have partnership with South Africa in the development of blockchain for example, and we are trying To develop those those ecosystem with this example We have also another example in the health issues where we are quite strong Also with our pharmaceutical industries in Switzerland, but I can explain that maybe later if you want Okay, we need let's bring you into the conversation We've been speaking about potential innovation here, but if we bring the context into where we are now Emerging hopefully from a pandemic you've spoken quite a lot about the need for Africa to be self-reliant Particularly when it comes to tick and health. So how do we make sure that that happens? Thank you, and I'm sorry. I'm a bit late. Okay coming out of another session yeah, I'm a proud African and There are many challenges, but I always see the potential of our beautiful continent There is a bright future by 2035 There will have been more young smart Africans entering the workforce Then in the all the other continents combined That's how dynamic the continent is but right now we have to agree that Africa is facing a road deal and is being crushed and I'm going to talk about the health sector which I work in We saw with a COVID pandemic How rich countries hoarded the COVID vaccines they bought more than they could use They left none for the rest of the world Not only that they also refused rich companies and their governments to share the technology So that others could produce for themselves and survive so Here they were making billions in profits and here Africa and other parts of the south were dying This is not about being left behind. This is about being crushed I call it being crushed not being left behind because people are being left to die Then the results given you are not capable. You don't have the capacity to produce it anyway, South Africa put them to shame Company in South Africa within one year also made the same vaccine just like Moderna But Moderna would still not share his technology so that they move it to production To commercial production so some of the challenges the continent faces Come from the structural barriers within the global system the trade rules that allow People to hold a life-saving medicine and not share the technology so that others make for themselves Today in the HIV world where I work There is a new long-acting Medicine to prevent HIV infection. It is available in New York, but it's not available in Nairobi Why because the company which has it vive will not allow others to produce it So we are pushing and pushing and seeing you have the treatment. We have the Preventive share it with more countries to their credit They have shared it with a few more countries, but not all countries particularly not those who have the capacity Like South Africa like Brazil to produce generics that will go cheap that we reach everyone So Africa must become self-reliant But to do that it must also work on its own issues like build the market Where products can be sold and then that are at a competitive price with other regions That is a business our business of integrating our market. It's happening But needs to happen faster, but also global rules must change so that we can have the space to innovate and to build our own medicines and vaccines South Africa has a hub. I must end on that one has a power hub For a marinae technology that technology that was used to save lives in covid This hub has spokes all over the south in Asia in Latin America in the Middle East Sharing technologies really the first model of developing technology that is shared across regions It needs support political support technical support financial support so that it succeeds before the next pandemic These are the things that will save us and I'm Optimistic because Africa is doing what's right to build its market to share and then also I Need a global movement to change global rules make them work for all of us Professor Buddha and what miss when you are speaking about is something that US Tunisia have been working on when it comes to cooperation Among the continent also bringing people outside perhaps like partners from Japan. Just tell me a little bit about that. Yes Thank you as for continental and international cooperation We firmly believe that Africa's future lies with itself and its people, you know and Homegrown solution Solidarity and ownership are the key principles that guide actions and policies when it comes to achieve agenda 2063 Priorities and in this period Tunisia is bearing no force to further consolidate the entire African cooperation and Advocates for a more constructive and concrete South South and the triangular Cooperation and the African free trade area will differently contribute in acceleration in accelerating Africa's development and As you know, we have a organized in late August of 2020 to the 8th t-cat Tokyo conference for Africa development and there we have identified a huge number of mature projects that are just that are confirmed to be to be implemented and I would like to to talk also about International cooperation Because the international cooperation and multi laterally remains instrumental in supporting Africa's Transformation agenda and that's in helping build the continent's future There is a strong case to call for renewable Renewable partnership with Africa That nobody is more the values of and this is war we think strongly solidarity sustainability and Justice and as the demonstrated By the covid-19 crisis, no one is safe unless Everyone is and this mantra is still irrelevant In the face of the present global crisis that you are facing in Africa And just we've spoken quite a lot about the Wonderful things about our continent and some of the challenges as well. It's not obviously Africa is not one place that has the same Environment there are also quite a lot of challenges when you're coming in particularly if you're an investor if you're looking to do business Tell me a little about your experience with that Yeah, very happy to share. We've been on the continent for 35 years It's definitely not easy to navigate. I don't think any prize worth having is easy to get to You're right it will be a mistake to treat the continent as one country Your world is very different from our world. We operate in sub-Saharan Africa. It's very very different nuances different languages Different cultural nuances all of those kind of things. I think you need to understand those kind of things Our philosophy as a company has been to take a macro approach a Macro strategic approach with a local tactical operational approach in each country I think it requires deep belief It's not an easy continent. So you need belief and I think belief is really important I think you need commitment if you committed and you need to be committed for the long run That's very important. You need a deep understanding of The local nuances in each country. They are really really important. You need to have resolve resolve is really important I think giving back Gives you credibility not only giving back for giving back sake, but I think it also brings credibility It's natural that you have to give back but in your local communities in the countries in which you operate giving back is really important We've often taken the approach of Local partnerships in other words, we have shareholders in the major countries in which we operate We have local management is very hard I think for a South African colonial sometimes the rest of Africa sees South Africans as colonial in their approach And we've seen many South African companies go up north and fail miserably. I Think part of the reason is that you go with a mindset of you know Better or you know how to operate in a country where you really don't know how to operate So I think local partnerships are really important and local management is really important It's a broad philosophy of ours And then we we spend almost a billion dollars a year on investing in local production local content We are Africa's biggest storyteller. It's something we're really proud of so we give people what they want to see We give them their backyards. We give them their homes. We give them their cultures back on the TV screen We are the biggest fund of sport on the continent if a little bit of a punt But just a very interesting little story about getting things done I come I don't know how many of you are familiar with the game of cricket. You wouldn't know cricket But it's a very popular sport in in India Okay, so we started a competition a cricket competition in South Africa. It's on at the moment, right? We partnered the Federation. We became an investor Two nights ago in a very big stadium 30,000 people in Johannesburg Full stadium young people we we we ask people to bid for ownership of six teams Those six teams are all be owned by Indian conglomerates Not one South African company Indian conglomerates He tells you a lot about if we get the platform right if we do the right things people will come That's a massive investment of billions of rents in the country those pictures two nights ago of a full stadium Indian teams supported by South Africans Went to a hundred million people in India, right and sorry There's a billion people in it are a couple hundred people million people would have watched it We should not underestimate the power of those kind of things So I'm hoping we can share some practical experiences with the learning by the way with the learning after 30s have five years We still learning so we will continue to learn and we've been through ups and downs And I think it will be tough and I think it will get easier and then it will be tough again But ultimately we are committed to the continent President but say you were speaking earlier on about collaboration as empty as is talking about now The world is so open and there's so much opportunity in room Just continue giving us more examples and I think I found this example about the emery knee hub in the south Africa really interesting because we have you can start with collaboration You can develop an environment where it is possible to to grow but you need a strong Anchor and this anchor is other people well you need investors that's clear But it's not enough an investor can come and it can go you need an investor in him a stay and when he go You need other investors. How to how do you create that we can create that we have a strong environment I named that before Ecosystem and part of this ecosystem are the people the people living here. That's why Education is so important education legal legal framework stable legal framework stability and Possibility to invest and to know that you have the possibilities to remain here and to have good condition to to work And that's why we are working with from from Switzerland the point of view with African countries to develop that what we are We are also really interested to to be present In african countries because there is a huge potential Also for us. It's that's why it's so so interesting and I think I mentioned before two example I one example is blockchain. We are working with the South Africa and the blockchain technology What does it mean concrete? You must be very concrete when you want to achieve something concrete That means we are participating or Swiss the participants are participating to hackathons on the blockchain in South Africa and we are also trying to develop contacts between our Education Center education universities to our actions of people learning together working together to have this Well, this this development together another point is the health on the health issues we are also that strong collaborating with African countries it's more for the for the products regulation, you know You need a very good product regulation in the health system And it is also possible to be very innovative to be very active in this in this field And we have the chance in Switzerland to have very good Regulation authority and it was our goal to be open to collaboration with other countries to also create those ecosystems In in in other countries, that's maybe the two example I can bring you all right We I would like to open up the floor to questions But we need very quickly if we can one of the things that's going to hold us back from fulfilling the potential That's been spoken about here is the debt crisis that we're facing. How does it hold us back and what solutions are there? Yeah, it is choking Africa and also quite a number of middle-income countries and It's urgent that it is resolved through a multilateral legal framework open for all countries to access and To to renegotiate their loans so that they have the fiscal space to do the things that must be done today If you take a country like Uganda where I'm coming from I've just come back from my holiday I checked in at a school to see how it's going This is a country where kids lost two years of learning because of coffee it I Found that All the government can afford to pay Every year per child if you take away the salary of teachers is three dollars in a whole year per child in school But these are countries that are today paying two times more in debt repayments than their total budget for education Four times more in debt repayments than their total budgets for health It's critical and you're not mentioning what they need to do to manage climate impacts. These are countries flooded or in droughts Secretly You're not talking about the security needs of these countries some of these countries are falling apart under the pressure from All kinds of groups so debt is choking many countries And it's urgent that it is resolved through a system that is better than the current common framework Thank you so much to our panellists for the insight and contributions. I'm looking forward to hear more Let's take some audience questions. If I can ask that we start with Abdel Malek Alo and then can I please ask when you're asking your question you raise your hand and Mike will come to you stand up So we can all see you in the room There's a mic behind you Hello, good morning My question would be to when I'm Prime Minister you talked about South South partnerships What about regional integration because you are in the region that is the least Integrated maybe in the world in term I grab the exchange here accounts only for 2% What are you doing practically so that you can have regional integration in this region? Yes Better integration We have already started working on integration through students We have a lot of students from sub-Saharan Africa, but also from North Africa Why are you saying that there's only 2% what what? in trade of the five Maghreb countries again This trade integration Needs to be based on a number of criteria Betrayed balances and so on and to the best of my knowledge I think we are far beyond 2% which is why I'm asking you What Where where you've obtained that figure? These are official figures. It's one of the least economically Integrated areas in the world. Well that figure that you're putting forward is Is perhaps Perhaps does not reflect full reality fully but what we have tried to do is to boost the connection and common infrastructure notably with Algeria with the Trans-Saharan With the corridor with a number of infrastructures major infrastructures that are going to be built the deep water port We've just finished building the motorway from Tunis through Gambas and Medinine But I think probably The most important issue is building connections by land or air We're tired. I would like to ask a question and two more people here Maybe just to follow up on this question. I've been to the open the special envoy of the African Union and if I may to say that if you look at the Free area which is mean that some of the countries of the Maghrib are also part of the continent Even if it's in the north, I think there are Opportunity to see that integration as a continent as you have Madame Prime Minister said a gender 26 and 3 and others are there to make sure that we open our corridor and We have that regional opportunities. Maybe your question is how do we make sure also that in terms of the political integration as well because we did cut the Economic but also how the the region because we have echo us. We have the sadek We have the all the region which are integrated So maybe they will have some kind of challenges when it come from region to region, but I think CFTA is really a good Opportunity to use for the regional integration of our And I see we need thank you for bringing the light in terms of the health Security but also on other issues of of Africa I think this is a time for us to restart You know and to build back better. There are opportunities here and with the Community the business community in what's Has been said the example of Prime Minister said the president of Switzerland I've talked about chocolate How do we use that? solution and learn from What Switzerland I've done to replicate it in other countries that are for example producing you know the Resources, so I think that's where the connectivity should be there with some countries So opportunity not there. I think we need to seize it The gentleman at the back with the red tie had a question. Can we just get the mic to him, please? Can I please implore that as we've got 10 minutes left? We have quite succinct questions and Responses as well. I don't know if you'd like to anyone would like to respond before we we listen to the gentleman of the red tie Just add on the integration question that We need to be clear economic integration has to be about The advantage you have as a block to trade and to through trade to make improvements in people's lives North Africa is part of Africa and I think Morocco is the country that really has learned that lesson Perhaps in a bit of a hard way Morocco tried very hard to be part of European Union. The Europeans said you are not European enough. They refused Morocco then came back and is now part of the African Union. We embrace them very well But they are now reaping the opportunities Country after country now. I'm seeing Very very many Moroccan companies going for contracts in infrastructure in whatever So integration is about the opportunity to trade and use trade to improve lives. Thank you very much. Please go ahead Hello, I'm James Keaton from AP based in Geneva had a question from madam prime minister Notably about the development. We are talking about debt and a reduction of debt for African nations. We saw that the IMF has recently Spended funding for Tunisia Loans notably To pay for civil servants and my question to you is We have witnessed a We saw that the result of the general election in Tunisia with very low a very low turnout last month So, I mean How worried how concerned are you with the future of democracy in Tunisia and the economic fallout of that? seconds for question Please respond Yes, I don't see if I'm I didn't really understand. Could you be more precise? You said that the IMF had suspended The debt No, the IMF has suspended a number of loans Granted by the IMF to pay the wages of civil servants public workers public sector workers No, no, that is absolutely wrong. I can't comment on that. So Madam my question is very simple. How concerned are you? That Issues with democracy in a nation that was one of the pillars of the Arab Spring May have economic what the economic fallout of that maybe for your country Could you repeat that? Let me tell you Your question gets answered. I'm just left with seven minutes I want to make sure as many instructions as possible happen Please stand up introduce yourself question in 30 seconds or less. Who's it directed to that Joe? Kenner presidency of Grayston in New York I want to do to talk about because we haven't heard much about the impact and the challenges you see with the African continental free trade agreement So folks could give us the challenges and opportunities you see with that. Thank you very much Anyone would like to I would say something and in this issue. Thank you very much for that as a Swiss president It's quite difficult for me to speak about it But I tried to give to give a well what I can talk about it our yesterday to this breakfast We had with the African countries and it was a the main theme the main issue the free trade agreement And I must tell you I was really impressed to see one free trade agreement with 1.7 billion people It's huge. It's fantastic and it must be very well implemented It means it means a lot But what means implementation you need for that to have the really implementation on the field You need to have a good logistics. You need to have good travel possibilities to have people in contact It was also amazing not so positive Amazing yesterday to see that to travel from one african city to one another traffic and city You have to go to to come to Breslau to Paris to improve this situation to have better contacts and to develop stability legal legal framework stability institutions and It will be a very very strong strong thing I just wanted to underline this because I think it is for it is absolutely key for the for the next for the next decade So and I just said it's easier for us to travel into the rest of Africa from South Africa We're people based in Dubai because it's easier to use Emirates to get into Ghana Nigeria Tanzania anywhere else as opposed to traveling from South Africa, which is a real problem Your question in 30 seconds a lesson who's addressed you please. Thank you. Hi I'm sangu delia why jail from Ghana So my question is we've spoken about the travel connectivity issues and economic integration and the hope of of the Africa Continental Free Trade Agreement But before we get to that there's the most basic thing which is the the movement of people as it stands today If I have a US passport or a European passport, it's easier to travel across Africa than if I go with my Ghanaian passport How do we fix this? Thank you? Really yeah, it's easy to say what should happen it's tougher to do it But definitely African countries African leaders are seeing the importance of free movement of people and goods The challenge is there is that some countries Are doing better than others economically? There's a tendency for people to look for greener pastures and then that also results into a migration problem for some countries These are real challenges But I'm seeing many countries moving away from that take for example for us in East Africa Now we've brought back the East African passport with my East African passport. I can move Six countries in our region. So there's progress that's happening, but it's a bit slow We need to move it faster I'm checking if there's any more questions from the floor as we have three minutes or so remaining one last Very quick question before we get the gentleman's questions answered in the red But we can go back to that question I don't know if you thought about a new able to answer or you want to have that discussion later. Yes. Yeah, yeah, of course So could you repeat your question? Well, I'm sorry if I was a little perhaps a little bit If I asked it asked it in a complicated manner, but please do go ahead and ask it again So let's set aside the IMF issue for the time being. It's just a very basic question There was a general election in Tunisia with a very very low turnout in the first round. Yes Tunisia was a symbol of the Arab Spring. It still is so We are just Undergoing a democratic transition. We are moving from one model to another. I'm sure that you will understand That resistance to change is a very powerful phenomenon This general election is not over yet There will be a second round on January 29th, and I'm sure that you will see That we'll will have a much better turnout Does that answer your question because there's a sense that there was another aspect an economic aspect That you thought was connected to the democratic transition Yes, I was saying do you think that problems with democracy which People who turn towards Tunisia With very hopeful eyes and what they've accomplished is that in any way endangered by that very low turnout and May may there be fallout from that economically for your country Why don't we talk about this after January 29th? Of course, I'm delighted that you are deeply interested in the future of Tunisia and you are expressing Something in asking questions, which of course many people are thinking long and hard about but let me assure you that Tunisia's democratic transition is absolutely not under threat That we are currently accomplishing a full democratic transition. We are there's a true change of paradigm We are transitioning from one regime to another and I'm sure that you will see I Am very hopeful. I have full confidence in our people and as I do for the whole of the African continent I'm very hopeful that Tunisia Tunisia's situation will improve and that we're probably going to accomplish things that will surprise you But he's talking Tunisia We're going to work and try and continue the discussion What I am going to ask the World Economic Forum to do though is make sure that we have the next Africa session We have is an hour and a half because last year when I moderated the discussion as well It also got very heated. We've got so many different countries We've got so many different opinions and so many different issues on the continent And this is just an example of how we need so much more time To ventilate the issues and really have discussions among different role players in the country in the countries and in the world I'd like to thank you all so much We will be good to go we will realize the African century. Thanks so much for your time and attention. Good afternoon


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