We have four panelists myself. I'm Matthew Schuchman. I'm one of the founders of war driving world calm Okay, we have render men a famous hacker and a superb war driver Okay, we have Robert Hale who's a lawyer from San Francisco who's written on this subject of Wi-Fi and the law And we have Frank Thornton thorn Who is a former law enforcement official and as well a great hacker, so we'll give some different perspectives Firstly Firstly, I'm gonna ask if you can hold your questions till the end We're only gonna have about 40 minutes, so we'll try to get through it so we can leave a few minutes at the end for questions firstly, you know definition of what is war driving and The simple definition of what is war driving and whether you're walking around There's been a lot of play with the verbs here whether you're driving around whether you're walking around it's the the act of having a laptop or a PC of some form and Detecting other people's Wi-Fi signals and recording some information about them The simplest case was recording the information that the access point is there Maybe the speed of transmission and if you have a GPS maybe the location so There's been a lot of talk of whether war driving is legal so there was a dunesbury cartoon which which covers this and The question of is war driving legal There have been a number of articles in the newspaper where you've seen that people have been addressed arrested for war driving however What I'll say is with one exception in each of those cases the people who were arrested for war driving were doing something else Some other nefarious activity some crime in this criminal activity in this for instance in one case in Toronto The man was spamming child pornography But using somebody else's Wi-Fi signal to get it out We certainly can all agree that spamming child pornography is a crime and it's really not the war driving. That's the issue It's the other crime involved another case involves someone who was two people who are grabbing credit card numbers Off of a Wi-Fi signal near a retail store We don't certainly agree. They're stealing credit card information. That's separate from the war driving There's a recent case where a man in Tampa was outside of somebody else's house and he was caught The man went out the president of the house went out found him outside and said hmm What are you doing here? But didn't say anything he then went out drove his girlfriend home came back The man was still sitting there in the van with the global laptop screen is the report It's in the newspaper say he called the police the police came by Whoever this guy was was not so smart He didn't leave after the first two times and the police came by and they arrested him for war driving We're not sure what else he was doing We're not even sure what was on the screen, but when that case comes to trial later in the fall Maybe we'll know something about it. There are a variety of laws both at the state and federal level Which cover? Accessing networks both legal accessing of networks and Accessing a network that you might that might not be yours where it's an illegal activity Some of these laws have been extended and will cover Wi-Fi access of networks, but not all of them There have been some new laws that have been brought into play Which will cover some of the distinctions with regard to Wi-Fi access But very few of these have had the chance to be tested yet in court And if any of you have had experience with the law knows it's not what the law says It's what becomes the precedent within the judicial system. So the first question I'm going to ask our panelists is If in the very simplest case we're war driving we're driving around with a laptop and We are accessing And that we are detecting access points Using a package. Let's say like Marius Milner's net stumbler and recording the location and Something about the signal. Is this a legal activity? I'll first ask my first panelist render man Hey, just for clarification. I am from Canada my Up, all right. I am from Canada. So my knowledge is mostly around Canadian law I'm not a lawyer But in my research I found in Canada It's a lot more sane Sainly written laws than in the States in regards to this anything in the 2.4 gigahertz ISM band is Basically, it's public to make it's free to transmit free to receive up to one lot Anything that is transmitted If it's unencrypted you can listen to legally you cannot disrupt and You cannot decrypt if it is encrypted, but that's all the rules there are this very nicely Frames basic war driving because all we're doing is passively detecting the signals from these networks Just listening to the information that they're spewing out We're not accessing them because then at that point we get into computer trespass laws But the information coming in is nice and legal Yeah, it's quite legal where I'm from Okay. Thank you Robert Hill. Yeah, I think I would just mention two things one quickly is it would it be a violation of the computer fraud and abuse act which is kind of the Bible of a lot of the stuff and you have to show unauthorized access you have to show obtaining information You have to show damages, so Render just nicely outlined Although it might not be in the Canadian context you could I think in the worst-case scenario may be proved something there It was the access authorized Well, if they didn't have a any kind of protection up around their access point You might be able to squeeze that in obtaining information seems pretty weak again. What are you actually doing with the router? It's pretty minor and then where are the damages so it's pretty a pretty attenuated However, I will say this I think to the extent that an organized group that's setting up and again I said this is a worst-case scenario that's setting up kind of a You know we we showing people were a bunch of wireless access points are it's conceivable That some various zealous or overzealous authorities might view that as a as a facilitation of Other of bad acts although they're not doing a bad act They might be able to say it's conspiracy or aiding in a betting. I know it sounds pretty horrible, but It's it's certainly not unreasonable or irrational or inconceivable. So those are the two things out there. Thank you, Thorn I from my standpoint, especially with my background law enforcement my my Interpretation of this and not being an attorney, but being someone that is familiar with interpreting laws Is that this is completely legal to just detect and to record locations? I think a prosecutor would have a real hard time pushing it out to the effect that you're doing something nasty by recording this stuff It's probably a lot more information that is publicly available in a phone book That would cause a lot more damage than someone just going down the street and detecting whether there's an access point Near a particular location Thank you Okay, that's the simplest case now. Let's take the next case Let's say that we have a situation where I'm still there's a situation where we can set up Something called promiscuous mode promiscuous mode is not as dirty as it sounds promiscuous mode is that some Wi-Fi devices cards can be set to listen to any packet coming across And they do it passively. They don't send back an acknowledgement packet. So you're simply receiving everything that's out there in the ether so I'm receiving these packets and I'm receiving them for the purpose of pulling them down onto my PC and What I want to do is to break is to crack the encryption. I'm simply doing it for the sport I'm not interested in going on to that person's network and stealing any information from them It's for the purpose of receiving information. That's being broadcast out to me in the free airwaves as dunesbury said And but for the sport of being able to crack the web Is that a legal activity? Renderman in Canada basically it's free reign and the ISM band and Yeah, capturing anything that you want within reason in that Spectrum is perfectly legal. You cannot divulge to other persons what you capture and you cannot decrypt if You cannot decrypt the information you do receive Those are the only two provisions if you're trying to if you're just looking at you know screen dumps of The packets going by you know seeing what web pages people are looking at things like that That's all perfectly legal. It's entirely passive. You're not disrupting You're not doing anything that I can tell is legally bad When you start getting into cracking web if it's something that is not your access point not your property and no permission Definitely you're starting to get out of the radio communication acts more into the preparatory stages for computer intrusion so computer trespass laws You could probably argue the case that not having the two that that having the two Tools like air crack and a dump file Themselves are not illegal. However having processed the dump file through air crack and having the key Then they probably want to speak to you But you'd really have to get somebody's attention to have them go after that it wouldn't be worth their time Just if you're doing it for sport Not something I recommend because if you've got the wireless gear to go out and collect this stuff Anyways, you've probably got an access point at home and can tinker around in your own lab rather than you know Driving halfway across the city and doing it there like I'd rather sit at home in air conditioning Thank you Robert. I would talk to three things mainly this the CFA a elements then again The the sort of conspiracy enterprise theory and then also really public policy I think from the CFA a standpoint again, we just go through our elements. We've got unauthorized access Yes, we do have an authorized access Obtaining information There's there's a case that controls CFA that says even looking at information Is is obtaining it? Is that the right decision again? We could debate that but that is the president So if you're just looking at it as render said you've satisfied that element of the CFA Then you have your damages now if through that act of cracking the encryption The user is then led to have to spend a lot of money to you know reconfigure their system or something again One it's a stretch But you could say that you have damages there now moving on to the conspiracy part again If you have a group of people doing this and they again they may some of them say it's for sport But there's a kind of a gray area there. I could see the feds coming in and saying, you know You guys are aiding and abetting you're not doing any you say you meant to be do anything bad But if you know that something bad is going to occur down the line You're you're aiding and abetting bad actors The third thing I'd say is that really you know since and we're going to get to this in your third segment the public policy aspect You know you want the that these companies develop tools to enable the user to protect their access point So to the extent that you go around cracking them I mean it might be contrary to public policy, but you also argue that it facilitates a good public policy So but we'll debate that next Yeah, Mike my view on this portion of it is when you start getting into if you're just receiving straight data without any Any encryption on it? You're probably completely okay You may be treading into an area of a problem if you start reading email, which is completely Clearly illegal under a couple of different laws However, if you're just getting a packet and you're looking at a packet seeing what it is you're probably all right When you start doing the web breaking You're you're crossing into a real gray area in my mind, and I think that having worked with prosecutors That would show clear intent in their mind if they were going to try and Grab someone for doing something the fact that someone went out and was breaking web on Someone that they did not know they did not have permission Most prosecutors would say that that is a clear intent to commit a further criminal act Thank you now we get to What I think is the most interesting question here from my perspective which is If you were to go out and purchase a typical link sys or a Belkin router You'd find that the SSID that has been the name given to the router is it usually either default? Or in the link sys case, I believe it's link sys a consumer goes buys that router sets it up at home Follows all the instructions goes into their Windows XP machine and Sets it to access their link sys router. No protection is set They check the mark check the box and it links up to their router Now a week later they go out and they take their laptop and they're sitting in a park in another part of town working on their own on their own PC and The laptop detects another consumer who's done the same thing in the area and it of course thinks oh, I have a router named link sys It's not protected. I've already been programmed and What is what is Microsoft's operating system do grabs onto that signal and connects you directly to the internet? so The question is one. I've done nothing active I've simply followed the instructions of Microsoft and link sys gave me Have I done anything wrong? And then the question becomes who is responsible is it the person who manufactures? Is it the person who is accessing the signal? Is it the consumer or the business which happened to follow link sys and Microsoft's instructions and set up the router that way? Is it the hardware manufacturer should they have set security as a default? Rather than insecurity as a default Or is it the responsibility of the operating system not to automatically jump on to somebody's router without asking permission each time? So it's an interesting question not only from a legal standpoint, but also from a public policy standpoint Thank you. Renderman.  I want to check my email and then they go forward Yeah, that's that's theft of service plain and simple The consumer should have enough brainpower to realize that yeah, you've towed up to that line. Let's not cross it. I Personally blame a lot of the manufacturers Link sys is probably the worst everybody's probably heard the links this global network, you know, like 60% of the access points out there or link sys Most of them are on default How and they bury the security warnings in the manuals. They're not easy to set up Different manufacturers have different High-level encryptions and everything they don't play nice together. It just gets really confusing for the customers I actually have sadly have to give props to Microsoft when they were in the wireless Gear development stuff and they're selling to their routers and cards their software Wizard that came up you specifically had to tell it. No, I don't want web on by default It would ask you for a key for Your security you had to specifically tell it. No, so just by not going for Insecure by default. I think they did a really good job. However, everybody who had built-in wireless cards and you know had some sort of like 128 bits Try to set 128 bit encryption because different manufacturers were using different methods to get 128 bit at the time That nobody could get on it. So if they set the security as high as they could we're couldn't connect Okay, I'll just turn it off and leave it So there's a lot of these companies that I think just need to sit down readdress what they're doing They're not taking care of their customers. They're intentionally putting them in harm's way I'm just waiting for the first day that somebody is Convicted for having an open access point and facilitating a crime I don't know if that's within the realm of the law But I could see somebody even civilly, you know if company a gets attacked by bad person You know by a bad person through my access point can company a sue me civilly for facilitating the access It's a scary thing Thank you, Robert. Yeah, I think with respect to the users that that's really the risk there I but but the extent we're gonna hold links is liable they relate because links is ships these things with the default and they do it for reason because There's a they're advertising a product that will provide ubiquitous You know Wi-Fi access People just want it to work. Yeah, they really do so you've got that Smashing up against the the real sort of implications of shipping this stuff the way they do so I think that to the extent that they start to make it easier for the users to To implement quickly with some sort of restrictions Then you might get into a case as you described where there would be some liability on the WAP operator Even if it's someone in their house As far as you know holding links is liable. I certainly think pressure is coming on to them I know that the I mentioned in my paper that they're developing some there's a consortium to develop some kind of product That's gonna they're gonna add on to the router to make it easier for people to implement security whether that's gonna be any good I don't know Anyway, and you know again I don't the the efforts to hold ISPs and manufacturers liable in the past have been pretty Haven't gone really anywhere except for when they're going after Monopoly type situation, so That that that would be my view at this time You know a lot of this has come about because 802-11 has been a victim of its own success. I think a lot of the manufacturers originally envisioned setting these things basically as a very short-range item that would work only in a house and and People are going out using them in places. They never dreamed of the manufacturers never dreamed up So it's going out. It's being used a lot more than it was ever anticipated and the technology Implemented was never intended to be used this way. So we've got kind of conflicting things going on here On the other hand, I think there's a certain amount of responsibility of the operator There's this very old thing that I think you've probably all heard called our TFM You have to be able to operate your own equipment Properly you're supposed to be able to figure out what's going on with it while I would agree that the manufacturers Oh responsibility of the general public to get this stuff right The operators do have some responsibility in getting it right themselves Thank you. I think the questions that we begin to ask ourselves as fellow hackers are Although it's not totally independent of what the law requires of us is what is the definition of Ethical war driving and that's something which our friend render man here has given a first stab at But it becomes a question of the sense the law hasn't quite caught up with Wi-Fi So the question is how do we as hackers act in an ethical manner now in the first step we do Sound of like John Muir said, you know We have to walk softly and not leave too many footprints in the sand on the other hand the act of cracking a web We're pretty soft. No one really knows we're there until we've actually cracked the web So it's a very interesting question Are there any questions if it's the one I'm thinking of what I've heard is it's basically the telecoms are trying to fight Municipalities from getting in to what they consider their business You know, it's it's one of these private enterprise versus So giving away something on a municipal level You know, I I've got mixed feelings about some of that stuff as much as I'd like to have free access everywhere I Don't particularly want my tax dollars going for it.  I may not use I I Just think that like we can all agree that this sort of stuff would be really nice It was like a utility like phone power water, you know, you turn it on it's there I think it's a good step the municipalities are realizing that internet access is not just going to go away You might as well start providing it for everybody and just there's already Enough internet access if one wanted to do really bad things with wireless you could get internet access anywhere Let's just organize it and you know do this sanely It is just a money grab by the telcos trying to hold on to their their old-school monopoly Because now they don't have the wires to control There's a limit that they can do they're just trying to you know stem the tide as long as they possibly can I don't know of anything like this in Canada. I honestly hope it doesn't go through down here Yeah, I would just add that I think an interesting legal concept comes into view If you do move toward a municipality model, which is that it's called sovereign immunity Which the government essentially can't be held liable even for negligence So something to think about for those of you who were awake Government control of the internet so government control the internet would actually be a positive It might be if you're looking to kind of you know have a good time I think a lot of it depends on how it's set up who's running it. There's Before we get to the next question I wanted Robert Robert Hale has written an article on this if you look in the CD that you got with DEF CON There are some pieces written by render men on a first stab Which I think is great at a hacker code of ethics for war driving as well as Robert Hale has an article on this which Delves into some of the issues But I wanted Robert to comment on the computer fraud and abuse act because if I recall reading There's a part of the CFAA which basically says that it shall not be a crime To access a Wi-Fi signal that is unencrypted You know What I will focus in on That makes sense and that's that seems consistent with a lot of the things that I've read and what we've been talking about But I think probably the biggest unknown There is what the definition of unauthorized access is There's a huge disparity of opinion The act doesn't define it as anybody who's who's delved into it knows And they really left it up to the courts To to to come up with a definition and as a result There is a very very wide spectrum of views on what that unauthorized access and the crux of it is that is the user When they approach the internet are they in the default position of being unauthorized So or is it the exact opposite that unless the something on the the the the internet end Give some kind of signal to the user that you can't come in here is the default of the user coming in Actually, I have open access so it really comes down to a policy debate about the whether the internet's open or not And I think that that that and there's a paper that I refer to in my paper if you want to get to excruciating detail on the status of What not what unauthorized access means I would point you to that for further detail, but Irrespective of what? Some commentary on the CFA may say I really think that the future of where this is going to go at least at that Level is going to come down to unauthorized access Yes, you stand up I can't hear so your question is That if you're broadcasting it and it's unencrypted you don't have the right of privacy to what you're broadcasting Okay, I don't know anyone want to comment on that Basically, I think you're correct in that you don't have a right as far as the reception goes it you've sent it out there However, there are some laws that will conflict with that directly specifically the one regarding email It's it's illegally intercepted email if you don't if you're not the recipient if you're not one of the carriers Or you're not the one that's transmitting it so Yeah, see that and that's the real gray area if you capture it and you realize it's an email Where you where you're crossing the line because you know if you just get a header and it's an email header And you say oh geez I'm not going to read any more Have you crossed the line? You know I'd say maybe maybe not If you go through the whole thing you you've probably definitely gone way past where you should have gone so But if if someone's just broadcasting everything that's going out there that they've been getting all their web surfing and all that a lot of That's completely open. That's their own problem Yeah, I would add that that and I discussed this a little bit in my paper If you want to get push the computer fraud and abuse act aside for a minute and get down to common law issues like trespass There's a there there have been cases in which they've likened unauthorized access to trespass and and With the views that come down there or if you're not protecting your access point and taking steps to protect it then there's an implied authorization you're giving to the user and Again that relates to the point I made earlier about the debates about The this unauthorized access business. I would also add that I think that you really boil it down to the bone right now The feds can tap into the internet without a warrant I mean that's basically the way it stands right now, so we can debate that endlessly But I think that's really if you really boil it down. That's really what's the bottom line So the feds could tap into the Wi-Fi network without that's my current understanding But again, you know, again, there's probably there's a lot of conflicting views about that. Yeah, the questions Okay, one other issue I'm gonna bring up again is this issue of who's responsible So I think what we've talked about here is the problem Which is they try to make it easy for you to use Wi-Fi at the same point. They make it insecure So one of the things that I've talked about with several of the members of the panel here is in a sense that We believe there needs to be a much stronger effort on the part of the software and the hardware manufacturers to change In a sense, not only their marketing literature, but change the way they ship this equipment and this software So that in a sense security becomes a default and I know we dressed out a little bit I'm asking that specific question. Do they believe that if a case were to happen That we would did have on the authorize access Do you believe that the software and the hardware manufacturers share some responsibility? I don't think that the software and hardware manufacturers could be held directly liable the end user You know stupidity is not a valid defense if you didn't secure your access point and you know you You know somebody ends up Accidentally being on there intentionally my personal opinion is that if you leave it open and You specify in the SSID that it's free access then go for it if it is not Specifically telling you free access, you know serve me anything like that Take some pity on these people. You've probably got high speeder in at home You don't need to move job of other people hotels have Wi-Fi usually There are much better ways of doing it than you know trouncing around in this legal gray area and get yourself in trouble At some point or another It's going to be ubiquitous. You know, we're just gonna be all open things up and it's there all nice and legal But for now, yeah drive the two blocks down to the kinko's or wherever and use theirs Just cover your butts. I just really wish I could smack links this around a couple of years ago when they were Putting this stuff out because they just they seem to be the biggest part of the problem. Their manuals are getting better But I still hold them responsible for so much of this because they're making it so easy It's not even like you're having the tools are out there to break a lot of the security that's in place But they just make it so much easier for everybody As he said if you have a link sys at home links us out in the park It just hops on there and suddenly people can suddenly commit a felony on their own You know the software and everything helps them they could very easily go too far and you know start checking emails start Realizing hey, I can use this as a launching point for other things Thank you Robert. I would just say that it's the job of the plaintiff's bar to come up with a lot of these outlandish and bizarre Theories of liability as any of you know from buying appliances like toasters and hairdryers and Pretty much anything nowadays.  Yeah. Yeah. I mean really and that's all there because of the There's enough books to fill this room about product liability The reason I mentioned that is that the whole idea here is to make well Maybe not you know everybody would agree with this, but they're trying to make computers a newer appliance, right? So To the extent that that keeps getting pushed You it's not inconceivable that you could come up with some kind of theory like that So I think it's extremely unlikely that links us or other companies ever come under any kind of liability, but it's not Impossible given the history of litigation within the product liability space But I completely agree with the points made that they really need to do more doesn't mean we can't yell at them still though Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. You know like I said earlier You know there's a certain amount of our TFM. However, I also think the companies as companies Oh as something to get their product right and you know for all the abused Microsoft takes on a lot of different things that they absolutely deserve The one thing they did right in my opinion was was with their Wi-Fi Appliances they Went to a default encrypted mode They were the first and the only product to do that I'd like to see the other products do that love to see it Thank you before we finish I just want to know if you any of you saw this article in the newspaper Which we have up at our booth that ten more commandments were found and I'm not sure that anybody were aware of it So we made up a t-shirt about it Which I think really talks on what we're going for ethical war driving the 11th commandment now shout not covet thy neighbor's Wi-Fi Thank you all very much for coming I think we If you're actually hoping to have some level of security by hiding your SSID I don't think that anyone would actually say that Works a security You could make an argument, but it's just a matter of using a different tool to find it I Don't think there would be enough there for anybody to complain That they try that I was trying to secure my stuff why are you on here? Okay Thank you all very much All right, we got time for two more go ahead. I really wish that they would I'm not a lawyer, but I've seen cases where companies will go in install wireless access You know all over the place in a business leave it wide open and walk away and just I don't think it's due diligence And it's not very professional The companies I think would probably be best sued civilly if something did happen ethically Who are these people they're setting these things up in securely they're supposed to be you're hiring the expert Why aren't they reading the manual? Why aren't they doing what their job is? I'd say two points. It's conceivable. They would be held liable civilly Maybe the second thing I'd say is most of these laws have loopholes for You could say sort of information security or set, you know technical loopholes to allow for These types of things so it's conceivable they could get immunity under something like that Yes Does that count as wiretapping? It's conceivable that that's a topic I mentioned briefly in my paper It's certainly again if you're going to find liability under CFA under the facts you described There's no reason why you wouldn't find it in the wiretap laws one of the points that we make in the beginning here is that What we know what we interpret some of these state and federal laws to be the question remains over the next few years How the courts will interpret them and we need to walk as hackers and as people who advise people out in the field We need to walk a fine line and make sure that we're not going into an area Which is gray without knowing that we're going into a gray area Any other questions? Okay. Thank you all very much


Starts now Welcome to the combat cast It has been a while, but we are glad to be back to talk about Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate and the three new characters coming with that Today we're gonna specifically talk about one character in particular because here's some news We're gonna have three combat cast around Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate so to get started Let's introduce the crew I am Tyler Lance down one of the community managers here at Netherrealm Sorry Stephanie Brownback senior QA analyst Derek Kurtzik firm believer that pineapple does not belong on pizza. Oh Hey, Tyler Yeah Been looking forward to that Welcome back everyone. It's great you back doing a stream It's been a while. So glad to be back excited to be talking about Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate Before we get started today's stream can be based on And then we're gonna have two more after this coming up in the next in the following weeks and we'll explain those later So let's first talk about what we're excited about for me with ultimate is the inclusion of Rambo I grew up watching all of those movies of that genre and just having that character in in the in the cast is super exciting to Me especially because from what I've seen and everything he plays a lot like a character that I'd like him to so that's exciting. Oh Yeah, I see a lot of people literally All he's gonna do a shoot guns now. You need to pay more attention to those movies He has a knife a bow all kind of traps and stuff. It's really cool But I'm excited Oh, yeah, yeah, he's nasty up close. I am excited for rain. I always love When our artists and designers get a chance to like reimagine a character that's not in a bunch of games like rain is Only been in a couple. So it's really cool to see, you know New ways to explore his powers and his look and all the aesthetics and all that. It's neat He's it's almost like you get to put it in a way very different than like Liu Kang or Jax or something There mine would have to be the Queen Melina is coming back Cannot wait. We're gonna be running online. Melina's gonna be owning online people Melina rise up. Let's go We'll be getting to Melina in a in a future stream But today of course is based on rain And I know you all want to see and hear more about how rain plays in this game And it's gonna be pretty exciting because we have some really awesome videos to show you and Stephanie will be going through The ins and outs of how to play as rain for the most part, but before we get started on that Derek we're adding something to Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate that is So we've not done before and something that's gonna help out some players who maybe just joining the fight So tell us about that Yeah, so we've added a new online on-boarding system So for players that are new to Mortal Kombat 11 and new to the online experience It kind of explains some of the combat league aspects and the matchups and things like that Why you're being matched up with the opponents that you are Explains what combat points are for first-time first-time players So everybody that downloads the new and latest patch will have to go through the online on-boarding You will compete through three different matches against an AI It's a simulated online experience against three scorpion opponents because we wanted it to be as realistic as possible And after each match that you win you'll be you'll receive combat points after completing all three of the Tutorials or fights with scorpion You will receive combat points that can be used towards the current season and if there isn't a season active There will be cashed until the next season So you'll start off with a little KP boost and you'll also receive Some time crystals for completing the online tutorial You only have to do it one time and it's more for just getting people a better understanding of what the online experience is Sure now There's a lot of people who are gonna say like oh, but I've played 2000 games. I don't need this and maybe you don't but there will be a lot of an influx of new players playing world of Combat so you have some new opponents to fight against and if you already know all this stuff you get time crystals out of the deal So it's it's win-win really When win-win Good good good good Um So also, um, I guess we kind of want to we want to get right to the to the meat of the show Because everyone's really looking forward to seeing rain. So let's revisit the the rain trailer. We showed Earlier and then we'll get right to talking about rain. So let's show that I need neither reptile nor her mac to kill you Great job to Rigo Stephanie who else helped with that Stephanie on the trailer and Matt and Matt. So great job on that Real quick a couple things about the trailer before we get there This is a thank you to the community just recently Mortal Kombat hit one million subscribers on YouTube We got this which will be hanging up at the office soon right there. So we can get back in there I want to thank all of our fans who Subscribe to our content and watch all the trailers and talk about them Obviously couldn't have done this without you So it's just really cool wheel to put that up in the office And so all the everybody in the studio can see it and be proud of what what happened. So that's awesome Um Now we're gonna be talking about balance at a later date Probably the last stream just to keep keep getting people amped up for it Um, but I do want to say uh, Stephanie You said you saw something the community noticed you want to talk about Yes, like five minutes out of that trailer went live a few people including gur and slayer noticed Something was up with the waist and deli got off the ground and They're right. There is a change one of the changes is If you delay your wake up there used to be a short and a long delay. There's now just one universal delay. So ho Hit me uh Uh So sorry now there is just one delay you uh Delay your wake up and there's one timing. So you don't have to guess if your opponent's doing Either just getting up normally and doing a short delay a long delay. It's now just one delay And it has a Will people get my cats Come back kitty Come back kitty cat.  He's very into it Um, one of the cool new things in this game is he has a guitar which is an old Indian weapon It's this short blade thing you put on your like on your knuckles and it can extend into three different blades and That's new to the series previously used as sword and armageddon. This is way more interesting in my opinion And uh What kind of yeah, what kind of place are we looking at? Swaggy, I would say flashy Really cool combos more combo starters than most characters have with less restrictions. I think that's Probably the coolest thing about him awesome. Um, so we're going to actually uh show some some rain Uh videos and you can kind of talk through them and we'll uh show how rain plays So let's take a look at just rain's general fight style So to start off, we'll talk about his guitar.  This is back to Hit confirm and then this one's really good. It's forward to it has really good rain It's got a couple options and uh, this version has a Crushing blow if it's a counter hit The main reason I wanted to show it is it's really gross to me. It feels really painful. It's cut He also uses his powers in his normal attack You can see here is his 4-4, which is like a sweet kick where he knocks you down And he has a back lever. He literally surfs on a wave And then he has this really cool back 1-4 and anything is this you can delay it and then appear on the other side of them So you can choose to switch sides or not Now we're turning his throws and this is notable because Like a few characters. He has two crushing blows one on each throw and they're done with the the standard requirement And this is one I wanted to show He actually impales their own hand Awesome So that's just his general sort of movement and fight style sort of the stuff he starts with his, you know His punch in those kicks pretty much His range is not the best the guitar is really sharp and it's great for slashing, but it doesn't have the best range It's pretty much his arm length But his moves are pretty quick. He's got some decent mids pretty fast to low. So I would say Not the best range, but pretty good when he gets up close And I think his special moves complement the fact that his normals aren't The farthest we can because he has a lot of And if you touch as you once you're basically going to uh, Prince swag town through comboville It's going to be great. It's awesome what he can connect and do. Yeah That would be accurate. Yes Let's take that segue and take a look at some of his, uh, default special moves So first up is the around the world kick I to me this is the classic thing In this game more than new things to be show that he's actually kicking you through a portal and you're coming up So the move finally makes sense Kai that sort of makes sense He also has this new water ball where he travels full screen and then captures the end of the izuna drop kind of like ridden To end your combos And it has a crushing blow if he goes full screen or if it's his armor breakers So if you're in the middle of the combo and you think they're going to break away, you can use that to punish you And lastly here he has this really cool projectile. I think this is one of the neat things about him It's a very fast Good recovery high attack, but he has two different ways to amplify it He can either let it hit stick in them then amplify And then he gets a knock down or damage Or he can actually amplify it while it's traveling and it becomes a mid So the idea would be you're throwing it. It's a high if they're ducking it Uh, you can actually amplify it right when it's over their head and it becomes a mid and it'll hit them Or you can do it early and they have to duck the whole time because they know it's coming and stuff like that And you can mix it up and I think that's pretty cool. So you get less damage, but it becomes a mid That's awesome a new a new way of using a projectile for him Yeah, and he has a pretty unique ways to also advance across screen too with the argus plunge turning into the ball And then as we'll see later as well, he has a good way to advance to get in to get to where he wants to be Exactly. So it's like I was saying hit the range on his weapons not that great But he has the special moves that go literally full screening control the screen if he wants to take a risk and do that Right And this is his evaporate where he literally turns into a pillar of water And he then becomes invincible projectiles and you would normal attack will just pass by him So you're gonna have to either hit him over to recovery or hit him as he's coming out of it Pretty awesome in control a Awesome that that water move is great. I loved it when I first saw the trailer and and yeah looks awesome Codal just gets bodied. So that was fun. Um, he's always getting bodied Always getting bodied. Um, uh up next let's let's take a look at the first variation of rain So this variation is all about his uh quantum rips into the water realm And he gets this new move it replaces the uh the bubble And it's like a big full screen. You want full screen, but like half screen slash It's got good pushback on the block when he amplifies it And he can actually do it in the air and what's cool is he can do it in two different ways You can go straight across or you can go down like a dive kick. It's very very quick And if he amplifies it gets the second hit Then he wins this portal and once he has this on screen, it'll absorb projectiles You can see Right here and the difference with the backward is he gets to move around So you can put the portal out and then you can like go behind it Advance in front and it's going to improve any projectiles. And if he absorbs it too This question was loaded and the next time he gets the slash he's going to get big damage So that's an interesting way of we've had, you know Projectile parries in the past which this isn't But it is another way of controlling how someone uses projectile against you like you're playing It's sub zero and all he wants to do is freeze you you put that in front of you You still have range of motion and he's scared to throw anything Exactly and then as Derek said he has all these special moves that have a really good range And then that compliments it he gets them to calm down and not do their zoning and then he can kind of do Slash or You know his katar katar toss and stuff like that that regulate all of that full screen space The range on the quantum slice is just absolutely ridiculous. It's like half screen almost full screen And then when you put the rift up you can try and uh Dash back and forth with the air slice as well try and get in closer So he's just kind of set stuff up just so he can get in because he has that up close game to take you to combo town Is that that's a that's a town combo town Yeah back to combo town Um, so that that's just a really good variation to uh control the other person's movements A lot of players like to be in charge of how that person plays Yeah, go to range good mobility and then he gets to regulate zoning Excellent, and I also like how we've changed I was gonna say I like how we've changed the roundhouse like he still has it But we put a little extra flair on it because he has that oh my god I can spin three times first and then kick you it's awesome Oh, the spin is so cool and then the idea of him transporting to that water world I think is really neat and to be clear. That's not the kevin costner 90s water world z Sure. I think you're aware of that Okay, I just it's interesting because I remember Maybe when I was a kid I was like does rain shoot them. Do you shoot them all the way around the world? No No, it's through portals. That's that's silly. It's a portal. Yeah, we're a more realistic rounded ink on mk now Yeah, don't be silly Let's take a look at uh the first part of rain variation two So variation two has this uh advancing palm strike and what's needed. So you can actually delay it You can delay it just a second you can delay it for a real long time and get instruction Well, we can cancel the delay and actually uh Got caught Think it out and then back dash or go in for a throw or whatever and so like a simple way to use this Is to use the abasiveness and dodge stuff and then we've punished it like knock them down Going to the palm they're gonna with their wake up attack and then boom you get them and break their ribs We all we all we've all played against people who really rely on wake-ups And that's a great way Like that It's a really good way to make to make them think maybe you shouldn't do that this time they still will But they're not gonna get hurt doing it. So yeah, so winder won't stop. We know that at least you can break his rib cage ball ball roll ball roll Let's uh, let's take a look at the end of that one Then he has this splash move and this actually leaves him standing and rain disadvantage You can use it to end strings But it also re-scans if they're in the air. So after a joker combo, you can do it and then That prevents them any knockdown at all. So This variation basically really blows up wake-ups That's good, uh Now we have There's a second part of variation too. Let's take a look at that And so this is his entire splash where he squirts this water out and this is awesome for pre-emptive Antiring if you with a jump if you think a jump's coming You can absolutely regulate the air He's been trying to use the combo So what's really cool is this doesn't conflict with the around the world too And that means he gets pretty spiny combos because you get two different combo things So there's a lot if you want to use two bars, you can really get big damage and Look really awesome, which is probably even more important than the damage. Let's be honest Always I like that there was one one move in there that actually set up the water spout Exactly doesn't happen in an entire yes one three three. He kicks you up in the air and it's like Like it was made for it. It's perfect As a player of my skill level I'm always looking for moves that make it very easy for me to do specials after them Shiva has something like that. This is definitely one of those. So that's that. Oh, yeah The reaction of the pop-up move is just begging you to do the the water So I think this variation is the the combo variation for sure like he has good combos in all three But this one to me really stands out if you if you are Someone who you have no problem using bars just left really nilly because you want to do big combos This is a great variation for you Sounds good And let's take a look at uh variation three First off this costume is awesome. I love the hood. So first you get this tattle wave, which is a really good love with great Exceptively great range with the input by the it has a hundred after frames And this is also great for people that like to duck And then he also gets the classic in k trilogy water bubble Uh, which is a high So if they won't stop ducking it You can use the tattle wave and that's going to regulate, you know mid Midscreen And the main thing about the bubbles when he amplifies it He can choose which directions are going to fall he gets four different options.  There's four different reactions There's four different ways to combo them you could throw them out of the corner You could throw them into the corner. You could do max damage You can get really good. Okay. There's all these different options for how you combo depending on how you have in the water There's no better feeling too in some of our in our games We have a lot of characters who have a move that makes the other player have nothing they can do And like doing it where like yeah, I can choose to throw you up down back for doesn't matter That's just a good feeling as a player. I think Yeah, I mean I remember as a kid playing in k1 and that spear and then you're just like I get a free uppercut like This is not the best game ever made So those are always ecologically fun Uh, I always remember putting people in the bubble in mk9 and then just teabagging which is always fun That sounds that sounds that sounds right of your alley. That sounds about right. Yeah, that sounds grand Yeah, um Let's uh, take a look at rain's fatal blow What can you tell about the into for that? What's the what's the deal there? I think the cool thing is it's pretty quick and It's got pretty good range because he holds his arm up and it's not just the arm It's like the little water that comes up in front of it Gotcha, so it's a pretty standard one the coolest in my opinion the audio at the end when it's thundering. That's awesome Oh, yeah for sure. Um We were going to we're going to show you the fatality that was shown in the trailer We have we've heard from people that sometimes maybe don't show everything on the comic I guess we might save the last fatality for later In the future. Um, but let's show the fatality right now Flopping is so good. I love it That's awesome. Um, so that In a nutshell is rain, of course, you know when you get a chance to play rain You're going to learn a lot more and figure things things out But uh, that's we're going to show you today any any final thoughts Uh on rain everyone He does have a couple moves that we didn't show That you can choose if you want. He's got the classic trilogy lifting his arm up and the lightning strikes He's got a really unique Wacky move or it's this buff and he turns it on and his dash has become faster Which is kind of a weird fun thing.  I'm a fan of that and then Uh, I think you'll appeal to multiple different types of players too Like obviously you've got to get up close to do a lot of the damage and the swaggy combos But you can also do things uh and stay back with rain as well And still link into some of those swaggy combos. So I think he's going to appeal to a lot of different player types Yeah, I'm on the same page with you Derek too where it comes to we have arrogant characters in our game Johnny cage chow con. I would say but this is a different type.  So it's me a lot of fun to watch He's a demigod He's a demigod if only I could ever reach demigod. Um Derek For you, I think I think it's time for my favorite part of any combat cast Birthday shout-outs everybody Oh, yeah. All right. Hold on one second we've got Cordell 2505 underscore gaming brian jinn koo cheeky Zach gross steve durst Winston williams Derek Key, uh, kuhano mcpac olivia from our amazing, uh, uk marketing team angelo cruz treasure treasure trod But his name is really trover, but I always call him treasure though. He is a treasure Matt gilmore and happy late birthday to dan forden Yeah, that's basically it. That's all we got Here are the shout-outs um before we go We do want to discuss, um, some of the we've gotten a lot of things on twitter a lot of people tweeting about the How you upgrade to the next gen? And such and I have some stuff. I'm going to read while we put up some screens If you have mortal comet 11 already on ps4 xbox one Or get mortal comet 11 ultimate on ps4 xbox one You can upgrade to the ps5 or xbox series x or s version of this game for free at no additional cost Um, now if you pre-order mk 11 ultimate you'll get access to mortal comet 11 Comet pack one and aftermath when you purchase the game Now if you already own mortal comet 11 You can easily upgrade by pre-ordering comet back to to get melena rain and rambo on november 17th Now any players who pre-order mortal comet 11 ultimate or comet pack two Will get the time warrior skin pack at launch giving you three new skins dark web noob cybot halt and catch fire luke hang and blood code scarlet Now here's something i've been getting a lot on twitter so i want to explain this If you upgrade your ps4 game to the ps5 version as long as you are signed in with a playstation id the same one Your inventory rewards character variation and time crystals will carry over as well as anything purchased with time crystals Previous tower of time and crypt progression will carry over as well Store a progression unfortunately will not carry over to ps5 But any rewards earned by any sort of campaign completion will carry over Settings files and stats in your combat card will not carry over to ps5 And finally for the xbox users If you upgrade your xbox one game to the xbox series s or x version As long as you are signed in with the same xbox login all inventory rewards character variations progression Time crystals will carry over as well as anything you purchased with time crystals Now you will still need to download your local save data from the cloud Or transfer via usb to carry over custom settings or any sort of combat cast stats But that's it if you have any questions feel free to tweet us we can explain it better We uh again like I said, this is stream one of three We'll have two more the next one so far right now You can maybe put it in your counter is me scheduled for october 28th, and that will be rambo So very excited to do that The balance discussing balance and that sort of thing we'll probably do on the final one The final stream with melina so other than that Before we say goodbye any final words stefanie and derrick It's spooky season True yes, um, and I think that uh rain will make you feel the purple Pain purple pain This cost us 25 000 dollars Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. You're right totally different. It's a parody doesn't count Um We'll be back very soon. Thank you so much for joining joining us. We're really glad to be back It's always a pleasure to be in your living room wherever you are watching the stream and we will see you again very soon Thanks


Live from Las Vegas, Nevada. Extracting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE covering IBM Edge 2015, brought to you by IBM. We're back, welcome to IBM Edge 2015. This is theCUBE. Very excited to have Gustavo Stolovitzky here. Gustavo is a program director of Translational Systems Biology and Nanobiotechnology at IBM and Donna Dillenberger is an IBM Fellow at IBM Research. Folks, welcome to theCUBE. That was a mouthful. And I feel smarter just being here. So really, thanks for coming on. Gustavo, you gave a keynote this morning. Donna, I don't know, have you been speaking at this event? Yes, I gave a session on Z Analytics. Great, so let's start there. So Z Analytics, wait a minute. I thought Z was a transaction processing system. Analytics on Z, Z13 changed the world. That's right. That used to be taboo. Yeah, Z is a transactional system but it could also do analytics and not just analytics on a small amount of data but analytics on healthcare data, genomic data, global climate modeling and some of the models that partners have asked us to work with them on. They would take a week to run on Intel. They take less than an hour on Z. They're faster than Cray systems. So Z is not just a transactional system, Dave. So I want to come back to that because I heard Cray systems, I heard Intel. So actually, let's stay on that for a second. So I think I'm thinking high-performance computing. Correct, correct. So Z is now participating in that space. We have the fastest microprocessor in the industry. Couple that with 10 terabytes of memory. You don't have to always be doing IO to get to your data. You could do all that, those calculations in memory space and you have a very powerful high-performance computer. Gustavo, you were giving a talk today on the wisdom of the crowds, conversation that was strikingly interesting and something that we love here. We started with crowdsourcing, our research company and so give us a synopsis of your keynote this morning. Sure. So it's clear that we live in a data-rich world but we don't yet know really how to extract actionable information from this big data, especially in the healthcare industry. We are trying, the community is trying. We know that there is information there that is important for health. But we could do better if instead of one person analyzing a big data set, everybody analyzes it, more eyes into it. So in 2006, with the support of IBM Research and encouraged by IBM Research, we launched the Dream Challenges which are open science competitions in which we curate big data sets, put together data sets from different sources and make it available for everybody to be able to address a question that we pose to them and typically the questions are very important, very pressing in the biomedical field. For example, one question that we asked recently is can an algorithm look at early, clinical data from a patient affected by ALS, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, terrible disease, and predict its progression. That's very important because the progression could be very fast, like Lou Gehrig who died in two years or very slow like Stephen Hawking who has been living with it for more than 50 years. So it's essential for a patient to know whether he or she is going to live longer or five. So being an empowering physician to be able to answer these kinds of questions, taking advantage of all the data out there, facilitating an algorithm that does that, is very much necessary in ALS as well as in other diseases. So that's a data challenge. That's right. So how did you guys go about solving that and what's the relationship here? You're providing the infrastructure for that, is that right and the ideas behind it? Yeah, Gustavo's the head of these dream challenges. Other dream challenges that we've worked on together is rheumatoid arthritis where we got a lot of anonymous data for patients, their clinical data, their genomic data, to see of those traits what would be the traits that would predict whether those patients would respond to the drug for anti-inflammation. And my group at IBM Research, we provided the IBM cloud for these crowd sourcing models and one of the finalists in this challenge, one, because he said he was able to iterate through more models on the Z system than he was able to on his Intel system. Right, so what happens is that if you invite the crowd to participate in trying to solve a big problem, it's not necessarily a given that they will have the high performance computing needed to do that, right? So enabling them with the Z system was empowering them to be limited by their talent and skills but not by the high performance computing. And I think that's what we are doing in our challenge. Yeah, in fact, the crowd's not going to have access to low cost compute resources. So you put those compute resources to the crowd and what happened? Well, for example, in the rheumatoid arthritis challenge, we are able to predict with reasonable accuracy but we need to do more. The ability for an algorithm to determine from clinical data and genetic data whether a patient is going to respond or not to anti-TNFF, a particular type of medicine. That was the question that we were asking. You know, as Donna was saying before, the complexity of the problem is immense because we have 22,000 genes, we have an enormous number of clinical information as well and it's growing. So the number of features that you have to handle in order to be able to predict, you know, what is the handle that you use in order to be able to predict whether a patient responds or not? You have 22,000 genes to choose from to help you. Trying to sort, find the needle in the haystack there is a big combinatorial problem and you know, you need a big system to do that, a system that could be scalable and powerful. And as these models were running on the Z system, what we did was we also looked at the characteristics of that workload and then we took the math models that were being used and we optimized them and we built hardware accelerators for them as well, so that they would exploit the vector instructions and that's another reason why they run so well. So it's interesting, because I would think that you could throw a thousand, you know, Intel boxes at this problem and people talk scale out and so help us understand why that approach and it's been an approach in the HPC world for a long time and it's always the arms race and who's got the fastest supercomputer but they're, you know, right there. Explain again why does he wins out. Well, for one thing, Z is not only a scale up machine but it's a scale out machine. You could, on one Z box, which is like the size of two refrigerators, you could provision very quickly 6,000 virtual machines. The number of blades and boxes that you would need to provision 6,000 virtual machines in a data center, it's enormous. The hot room. Right and on the mainframe you could do it within seconds. It's scale up because instead of always having to partition your data, partition which genes are going to influence an outcome and then merge them back because these genes, they influence each other. When one is turned on, it has the effect of other genes. You could put all of that genetic data in 10 terabytes of main memory and have it all interact with each other at once. So in this type of models, it's better to have as much memory as possible as opposed to splitting them, merging them and splitting them. You know, it's interesting. The wisdom of the crowd you talked about this morning, the crowd's always been very efficient handicappers. I used to go to, before I had four kids, I used to go to the racetrack a lot. Now I have better things to spend my money on but handicappers know that a two to one shot more often comes in than a three to one, more often than a four to one, a five to one and so forth and every now and then a long shot comes in, but of course the favorites only went about a third of the time so that's a problem too. But suddenly, you know, books like Wikonomics which inspired Wikibon, you see Wikipedia, I met Jimmy Wales and that was another inspiration. Why do you think it is that suddenly there's this awareness that the crowd is good at solving problems? Well, it's not a new awareness. You know that one of the famous stories that kickstarted this wisdom of crowds concept starts in 1906 when a famous statistician called Francis Galton wanted to prove that democracy is not good because democracy is to some extent a wisdom, sometimes a madness of crowds but in areas where there is an objective answer not where we don't know which is the best president because we cannot test whether a president that was not elected will have been good but we can say like Francis Galton did in order to disprove the goodness of democracy he said, let me go to this country fair and see whether this group of people who were playing a game, the game was, figure out guess what is the weight of this ox and he said, okay, this is my opportunity to see that these people don't know what they are talking about. So they had to give cards and say the weight of the ox is such and such pounds and so he got the cards, he went to his house, he did the mathematics of it, completed the average and the average was one pound away from the weight of the ox, this is the average and it makes some sense if you think of it because people have a right guess and the right guess has a piece that is information and a piece that is noise. You know, eyeballing something, you are more or less ballpark. Some people will be more, some people will be less. So if you put together all that information it seems that the noise cancels out and the information remains. And actually the cube, journalism is the wisdom of the crowds because the more you could disseminate information, the more information you collect and instead of just getting our knowledge from like one scribe or one monk, that's the whole reason why books are so valuable, right? The more information is disseminated, the more the crowd helps to disseminate what each one of us knows. So you actually have a crowd source business, you're absolutely right. That's how we started this philosophy. Yeah, it's important to understand that it is not the case that crowdsourcing and the wisdom of crowds always is better than individuals. Prediction markets sometimes fail. Sometimes fail. So in order for something to work with the wisdom of crowds the individual solutions have to be somehow predictive. It cannot be random. They have to be predictive and they have to be diverse. They have to, each of them should look at the elephant from a different perspective. And so if that's the case, then you can aggregate them and the aggregate is probably very often going to be better than the best of the individual solution. So when we do our challenges, it's often the case that we aggregate the solutions and the aggregate is pretty good, very often the best. But one important characteristic, it is robust. Suppose that we ask in this conference 6,000 people something and a guy says, I know the answer. And now we ask something else. And other person will say, I know the answer. The people who would make the best guess is not always the same, but the aggregate is always going to be at the level of the best guess, whoever says it. So it's a robust answer. And so that's what we are trying to obtain when we run these crowdsourced strategies. I've often wondered, I don't know if you guys are sports fans, but I've often, I'm a football fan, I've often wondered if the crowd could call better plays sometimes than the coaches, but anyway. Yeah, and actually the Z13 is perfect for this, to try to aggregate as many responses as possible. You need a system that's capable of massive concurrency, massive data input, and not little servers that have small memory footprints. Well, it's interesting too, we've talked a lot on theCUBE recently, especially about innovation. A lot of talk about Moore's law beginning to attenuate, innovation is going to come from combining technologies. This whole idea of the second machine age and things that computers do better than people, but the more interesting discussion is, what are the things that people do better than computers? So we didn't think self-driving cars were possible five years ago. The interesting example that I recently read was that deep blue beat Gary Kasparov at chess, but a computer is not the greatest chess player in the world. It's a combination of chess and human, or computers and human. So when you think about the wisdom of the crowd and you think about things like Watson taking over human tasks increasingly, we see it all around us. What is that last mile of human? Is that the crowd? What are your thoughts on? I wouldn't say taking over, but augmenting, helping us be able, giving us more options to discern against instead of using our brain cycles to find out what are the patterns. Computers will enable us to reach the crowd and get a response back from a question we have and then we as a human could decide what do those choices mean to us? You know that there was also an interesting crowdsourcing project. I don't know what they call it crowdsourcing. Really, what we do is an expert crowd, really. It's not a million people, right? It's rather more like 200 people. All of them with PhDs, so it's a very special crowd. I wanted to tell you that there was another interesting example in which Gary Kasparov played against a crowd. I don't know whether you are familiar with this one. So it seems that Gary Kasparov played against the computer and against the crowd. And the crowd was organizing such a way that they would vote for moves and produce moves and someone who was a master in chess would decide which one to use, but the choices were coming from different people. And apparently there was a move that was the confused Kasparov immensely. Eventually he won, but he said that that was the most difficult game that he ever played. So there we go, so the killer combination is the humans and the computers. Don, I'll give you the last word, we're out of time, but where do you see these challenges going?  Do you have dream challenges? Do you have grand challenges? What's next for you guys? We would like to help people be as healthy as possible. I think if we could help with cancer, I think that would be an immense achievement. So that would be another health challenge that I'd like to see us continue to make progress on. Right, yes, these challenges serve many purposes. On the one hand, they benchmark algorithms. We don't know which algorithms are good or bad. We can have any app in our cell phone that makes predictions, but who validated it? Most of these apps are not FDA approved. We want to be sure that there is a rigorous assessment of the value of the algorithms. And we want to create communities that could talk with each other and move forward in the direction of wisdom of crowds, but also a collaborative look at the problem. And we want to democratize data in such a way that data is not in silos, but it's available for everybody to be able to use it. Finally, what we want to do is to create algorithms that empowers decisions to be able to help their patients. And then Dr. Watson in my pocket. Exactly, and you know, for journalism, instead of reporting on events that have happened, analytics that predict what will happen. I love it. FutureCube of Gustavo and Donna, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE.  Thank you very much. All right, keep right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. We're live from Edge 2015. This is theCUBE, we'll be right back.


Hello friends, let's discuss the following question. It says a rhombus shaped field has green grass for 18 cows to graze. If each side of the rhombus is 30 meter and its longer diagonal is 48 meter, how much area of grass field which will each cow be getting? So we have given a rhombus shaped grass field having each side 30 meter. Let's name this as ABCD. Now we have to find the area which each cow will be getting to graze. For that we first need to find the total area of the field and then to find the area for each cow to graze will divide the total area by the number of cows. So keeping this approach in mind, let us now move on to the solution. Now we will find the area of triangle ABD and then we will add the area of triangle BCD to the area of triangle ABD. But area of triangle ABD will be same as area of triangle BCD because the dimensions are same. So in triangle ABD is 30 meter, AD is also 30 meter and BD is 48 meter. Now we will find the area of the triangle by Heron's formula. For that we first need to find S which is A plus B plus C by 2. Here A is 30, B is 30 and C is 48. So S is 30 plus 30 plus 48 upon 2 which is equal to 54. Now we find area of triangle ABD which is equal to S into S minus A into S minus B into S minus C. Now here S is 54, A is 30, so 54 minus 30 into 54 minus 30 into 54 minus 48 and it is equal to on the root of 54 into 24 into 24 into 6 which is equal to 24 into root of 54 into 6. 54 can be written as 3 into 3 into 6 and here we have 6. So this is equal to 24 into 3 into 6 which is equal to 432. And since it's the area and the unit of length is meter, so unit of area will be meter square, so we have meter square here. So the area of triangle ABD is 432 meter square and area of triangle BCD is same as area of triangle ABD, area of triangle ABD is same as area of triangle BCD. So the area of rhombus shape, area of triangle ABD plus area of triangle BCD that is 432 meter square plus 432 meter square which is equal to 864 meter square. Now the number of cows is given to be 18. Now the area which each cow will be getting equal to the area of the field upon the number of cows, so this is equal to 864 meter square upon 18. So the area which each cow will be getting is 48 meter square, hence our answer is 48 meter square. So this completes the question. Bye for now. Take care. Have a good day.