Alright, sorry for the delay in the beginning. Okay, I am uncapped and okay. It's just running away from me. Alright, so first of all I would like to know who of you are familiar with Arduino. Like, can you show your fans? So you've already done some kind of Arduino programming before. Any other hardware, any other platform? Alright. And who's not done anything at all and wants to know how to get started? Oh, brilliant. Awesome. Alright, so what I'm going to talk about today will be a little bit about how you can use Arduino and Python and mash it together to make fun connected objects.  So you can basically read and write analog and digital signals. Essentially anything that is a continuously varying or a binary varying physical quantity gets converted to an electrical signal. You read it so you can do both analog and digital. You can also set up networks of devices. So there are a few communication protocols which I will come to. You can also use it for timing or counting signals. So the functionality that I will be using mostly in the first half is the serial data. Serial data there are quite a few different protocols, quite a few ways of sending data one after the other. Some of them I have listed them there is UART which is basically communication between two peers. So it can only allow two devices to communicate with each other. The pins are RX and TX. So you basically cross wire them and they keep on sending and receiving data. The other protocol is SPI which lets you have a whole network of devices. So let's say that you have one master and four slaves and you use certain hardware lines to select which device to talk to and then you can basically exchange data and that's full duplex which means that you can send and receive data at the same time. The third one is I2C which is a lot like SPI, lesser wires but with addresses but you don't want to get too much into the detail and then there's hardware which means you manually generate the signals. Basically the signals that you see all of that are the first three are handled by the Arduino itself but the fourth one you can also take it up to you to generate it yourself. So you can write your own protocol if that works for you. So the format I'm going to follow is I'm going to tell you one way to use it then I'm going to walk you through an application and show you the code to do it. The first one is the simplest. It's basically using Pi Serial. It's a library based, built to communicate to Arduino over serial. It lets you send and receive data from your computer. So if you see here, for all our purposes, there will always be two sections. One is code which runs on an Arduino and the other which is Python. So first of all, this code, this section run in here, the Python code runs on a computer and not on an embedded device. So on the left, if you want to start a serial communication all you really need to do is say serial that begin with the speed of communication and your communication channel has already been set up. Now it communicates to the computer over USB.  You create a serial object like this. You select which port which you need to find out from your device manager and the speed of communication. So your communication protocol has already been set. Here if you want to send some data from your computer to your Arduino. So I'll give you an example. Let's say that you have a NFC reader or something which has some data stored on it and you want to send it to the cloud or process it offline. A lot of times your device might not be able to do it on board the device itself or for security purposes you might choose not to. So what you could do is let's say you have a NFC reader. You read it on your Arduino using an NFC shield. It sends the encrypted data to your computer.  So this would be an application of what you could do with just this basic code. So basically you say serial.printline that sends data from the Python to Arduino and here you say serial.readline and almost similar the other way around. The only difference here is in Python you need to say serial.available. Oh, this is the other way around, is it? No, this is fine. So on the Arduino you need to say serial. Yeah, it's flipped over. But you need to say serial.available because a hardware device is dumb, right? Not as compared to a computer, it's dumb. So it does not know when to stop listening to data or when to start listening. You need to specify that. So here you just say if data is available then read it. Otherwise it's just going to wait forever. All right. That was one example. The other one I am going to show you a demo first. There's no sound for it so. So what I have connected is basically a sensor and I have used matplotlib which is a plotting library in Python. And I just run a simple invocation and that creates a graph. This is a simple light dependent resistor, something that detects if light around it is changing or not. So you could use this to debug your sensor data. So when you just move your hands around, you will see that the graph changes. So you could use this for visualizing data real time like monitoring temperature, humidity, whatever you need to. Let me go back to the presentation. All right. So how we achieve this is fairly simple. On your Arduino side, you are going to be sending just the sensor data. So you see serial dot print line and the value of your sensor. And that's all you need to do. You just send this one line of data. It keeps on sending the data whenever it has it from the sensor. On Python, you need to do a little bit more. You need to create a figure object in matplotlib. You need to specify the axis and the limits. So here we have chosen to use 100 data points. So you will create the limits of the x-axis as 0 to 100, which is basically time. And the y-axis basically is the value that your sensor gives out. So you plot that. Here we're using this animation object basically to create a moving sequence out of a series of images. So what this does is basically smooths it over by calling a function again and again. This line of code converts a simple image. So every time you have a snapshot of 100 values, right? So it just smooths it over and converts it into a transition. It's done. All right. The third way is PyFarmata. So what happened was if you have an Arduino and you have code written for it, you can't see too much unless you've connected a motor or lights or a screen. A lot of times you might not actually need to control it physically. You might actually want to control it via a computer. You might want to remotely unlock or lock or start or stop something. And how do you do that? So PyFarmata was basically written with the idea that there should be a computer interface to control the Arduino or any other microcontroller-based system. So how the system works is there is standard code running on an Arduino, which basically you can modify as well, but it's already established. For different purposes, there are different versions of that code. So if you're just in your Arduino, I'm not sure if I have Arduino installed on this machine, but if you just go to examples, you can just directly upload it. In Python, you need to do this. You just say you need a PyFarmata library. You import the Arduino. You create the board on this connection. So you say that on DevTtyACM0, my Arduino is located. Now, after this, the job is supremely easy. You just have to say board.digital. So you select the pin number 13, which is what I want to trigger. And I just say write. So I can either write a high or a low, a 0 or a 1. And I have that working. The same with read. If you want to do analog, though, it's slightly tricky. So what happens is the WaveFarmata handles an analog read. It continuously reports value, and you need to specify when to start and stop. So you just say enable reporting and read. But that can easily be handled as well. We will now move on to the more fun part of the talk, the one which involves the internet. So the UN is a relatively new Arduino board which has a Linux processor on board. So other than having a standard microcontroller, it also has a processor which can run a modified version of Linux, which means you don't really need to have a computer connected. The first half that we saw, you can eliminate that. So some of the features that you could use are an Ethernet port, a USB cable. It has Wi-Fi connectivity. It can also act as a wireless hotspot. And it also has SD card support. So how it makes your life easier is essentially that we use the serial library to be sending data from an Arduino to the computer and back. Here there is this library called the bridge library. This one here. This handles the communication in between the two sections on the UN. So if I want to send data, all I have to say is bridge dot begin and then dot send. And it will just send that data to the Python side and into the Linux side. On the Linux side, all I have to say is print line. Like in Python, it is a print line or in C, I say C out. And whatever is printed there can be read directly without any additional effort on your side. So let me give you an example. So one thing you could do is, for example, set up a data logger, which basically logs all your data to Dropbox. So how that system works is basically that there is this Linux controller, the ER9331, which is running Python. I have written a script for that. I will walk you through the code. This one, the microcontroller gets data from the sensor. It sends it to the ER9331. This performs two functions. The first one is it saves it into a log file so that we have offline data in case we need it. And since we are using the file API in Dropbox and not the data store, what we are doing is we are taking this file and every time we're just uploading it to Dropbox and using it in replace mode. So you're not appending data. We will just replace the file every time because we do have a new file. Let me show you a demo. Okay, I don't have a demo for that. I have code for that. So there are two parts again. One is basically the Python sketch which runs on an SD card or a USB drive. And the other is the code which runs on a Linux, which runs on the Arduino. The Arduino code you upload via USB. And the Python code you need to plug in a USB drive so you can either SSH into it or you can just put it on a pen drive and then make it run. Let me open this. Can everybody see this? Is it text visible? All right. So there are a few parts to the Dropbox API. The first one is you need to authenticate yourself. You need to get a token. After you have the token, you can just use it to continuously upload the file. You don't need to do anything else after that. So we are saving the authorization in a config file. We are using the config parser library for that, the module. So I have this file called Dropbox underscore auth dot CFG in this location. So this location is where my USB drive or my SD card will be mounted, which you need to set yourself or figure out. Now I have written a simple Dropbox logger class which needs an app key, an app secret, an access token, file name. So when it is created, it tries to fetch the configuration. Let me zoom out a little. So it tries to fetch the config file with the authorization. If it does not exist, it creates it. If it does exist, it checks whether there is a valid authentication or not. Once it finds that, it's really simple. This is all basically code to create a config, fetch the config, get the access token. So one trick with using Dropbox or Facebook or even Gmail is that you need OAuth authorization and you can't do that without having a browser window. It's really, really tricky. So what you need to do is the first time that you run this, you need to have connected to a computer and on the console it prints out this link. You need to go to that link, authorize the app and after that you're good to go. So there is a simple upload file function which basically opens the file and it says put file. The Dropbox already has a Python SDK so it handles everything and we've put it in overwrite mode. The next application is PyDreat. This is much, much simpler and a lot less complicated than Dropbox even. So if you've heard of the Internet of Things or if you're very interested in it, you can implement this without literally any effort. So PyDreat is basically this messaging sort of layer which lets you create an address on the Internet and using get and post requests, actually just get requests, you can send and receive data. So how this would work is you have a sensor, you want to send data. So you just write Python code to post it to DeWit and you can fetch it on your computer or mobile app so you can pretty much connect as many devices as you want to it without much effort. So how you would call this is you could actually test it yourself right now if you like. So you just go to DeWit.io, DeWit for and then you can use your own UI. You can say, you know, MyDreamLand server and then you pass on JSON string where you give the two parameters, the key value pairs, it will return a response which says it succeeded. Then if you want to fetch it, it's exactly as simple as get latest DeWit for and MyDream server and it will fetch that. This is not secured, of course, so if somebody knows what your UID is then they can mess around with you. But you can secure it, they do have a paid service. Let me walk you through the code for that. This is a very simple wrapper actually, it just uses requests. Alright, so the invocation for this is also like this, right? You can use on your computer or on your UN that doesn't matter. You say Python, DeWit.py, you put in your own unique ID and you say get and it will get the response. If you want to send data, you say Python, DeWit.py, your UID, post, you give it a JSON formatted string and it will post the data. This is literally how much code it is. That's really it. Get DeWit and post DeWit. So you use the request library, makes your life a lot simpler, a lot less effort. You also need to write code for your Arduino, of course, to trigger the script. Let me fire up Arduino. Alright, so there is a library called the process library. You say hash include process.h. You have two sensors, a01. You start the communication between the Linux and the microcontroller. While there is no connection, do nothing. Now, you just read the sensor value using analog read.  Now, let me show you how sending the data works. You create a process called DeWit. So all of this is highly abstracted. It has already been handled by most of the libraries in C and Python, written on both sides of the Arduino UN. So you create a process. You say run shell command. So it's basically an invocation on the command line. You run it and if there is data available, print it out. You have the data already on the UN site. The same with kit. You run the shell command. If there is any data, you just do a print and that prints out the data on your console. It passes on back to the microcontroller. All right. You could also, for example, use the Google Calendar API and have something like a smart connected calendar lying on your desk, which you can have a small screen with, which will remind you of your next meeting. You could further extend it to beep and you could even extend it to allowing somebody to set alarms for you. So if your friend wants, he can actually bug you and say, hey, you know what you need to get out because we have a meeting. So all of this, of course, you need to give them access, but it's possible. Let me walk you through the code for that. So here we're using the Google Calendar API. We are again built an SDK around it. I cannot share the client secrets because this is being recorded. All right. So the location for this is really, really simple. I've just said Python, sample that pie. So I don't really need any parameters because I know what I'm doing here. I just want to fetch the latest calendar data, get the next one event and display it. So every time there's a new event, what we are going to do is we are going to connect to the Google Calendar API, download the list of calendars that you have, choose a calendar that you want. So there might be a work calendar and home calendar. You might have a lot of different calendars. You use the one that you want. You select the next event that is going to happen. So you specify the current time as a parameter and fetch the events. The next event is what you want to display. So that will be saved in a text file offline. So in case there's no connectivity the next time, you still have accurate enough data.  We pass arguments. So these are the URLs that we are going to use. GoogleAPI.com auth calendar. All of this is handled by... Most of it is an example code for the Google Calendar API. So you can just grab this. And here is where most of the work happens. Get event file load events. So what we are doing here is we are checking if the time delay. So what we are doing is we have a 900 second delay. So every 15 minutes I want to go and check if there is no events or not. You can change it as much as you want. So you could make it 9000 if you want to check every 150 minutes. If the time duration has passed and the data is old enough, then you list all the events. So basically that gets a list of events from the Google Calendar API. Then you save it in a file. Also this list, out of that you fetch the first element and you save it in next event. And then you just print it out. If you see here, this line here, right? This is basically all you really need to do to send data to the microcontroller. So if you just say print, it of course displays on your standard shell and that can be acquired directly from the microcontroller.  So list calendars again, this part of the code handle is the calendar that you have created. This part supplies the time zone, the starting time and a few other things. And it returns if you see here, events.get. This is basically what you need, this and another one. We are saving the events to the file here. You save events using tickle. So you save and load events from a text file using that. Let me show you a demo of how this works. So here it's just waiting, right?  So you can do that coming back to the presentation. What you can also do is use the Facebook API, again Facebook as a Python SDK. So you can use the Facebook API, connect to your pages, read your inbox, fetch your page likes, manage your pages even. So you could probably connect a bunch of sensors or physical controls and let people interact with your web page. I unfortunately lost the Python code for that. I do have the Arduino code. So we're using the TFT library here, the TFT screen here, the screen that you see. In here, this is the TFT screen. So this is slightly different from the normal 16 by 2 standard screens that you get. So what we're going to do here is there's a library for that, of course. I mean, just libraries for everything. So this is a bunch of setup stuff. So you set the background as black. You set the color of the text as white. You set the text size as 2. You set the first text in the starting of the screen. So if you see the 00, that specifies the X and Y coordinates of the text. In the loop, we just create a process where we trigger this Python script. And if it is running, then do nothing. After it's done, this one will return true. Wi-Fi check dot available will return true. So if there is any data, then get all that data. This is basically the results that Facebook returned for you. This is what we printed out. And after that, we just convert it into a character array and set the right position, set the right colors, and print it out. If you see here, TFT dot text, it just prints out the value. All right, and I'm going to put up the stock on this URL. So you can just download the code for that as well. So the code, the GitHub, and the presentation will be here. This was my presentation. If you guys have questions, we can take them now. Was it that easy? I mean, nine-year-olds can do it for sure, but they're there. You told the world that a Firmata library for Python. So what's the limitation of what? One big limitation is it's really, really slow. The way that it's been written, there's a lot of delay in between. So how this Firmata library works is that there's a protocol which has already been established. The standard we have communicating. So if you say that digital write, like, turn the spin on or off, then there is a sequence of characters which the Arduino is going to send, or the Python site is going to send. Now, the way that this has been written, it's very, very slow. So there's a lot of delay in between, so it does not really respond as well as you'd like. So for real-time applications, you need to tweak it a lot. Okay, how about, like, you can connect more than one serial device to Arduino, actually. Yeah, you know that, right? I didn't get you. You can connect more than one serial device to Arduino. Yes, you can connect it to any different protocols. Yeah, it was using software serial. So will it support, like, if I want to connect GSM to Arduino, it works on there. Yes, you can do that. So Firmata basically is standard in the sense that there is code running on your computer and running on your microcontroller. So if you want to use software serial, you can do that as well. Okay. So you need to use serial to get data from the Arduino. Yeah. So after that, to convert, to send it to the GSM shield, you can always use software serial. Okay, from Firmata, I mean, from Python code, I can, I mean, I can access that software serial. Yeah, so how you would go about doing this is you have Python code running on your computer. When you run that, that code sends serial data. Now the only way you can send data from a computer to your Arduino is via serial, like serial dot write, serial dot read. Yeah, I can, I can get that. Yeah. And what I'm saying is also we, while using software serial, I'll be inputting the software serial, I'll be into my Arduino ID or whatever Arduino code. So after that, you can communicate with the GSM shield with that. Okay. So you need to use serial in the first part of getting data from the computer, but the second part of connecting to your peripherals, you can use software serial. Okay. Okay. Any more questions? Any questions? Yeah, there. Can you shed some light on 80 tiny processors, microcontrollers? That's not exactly relevant. The 80 tiny is basically a different set of microcontrollers. So a lot of microcontrollers are made for different reasons. Some are meant for cheaper costs. Some are meant for lower number of pins, for higher number of pins, for specific, like, for example, if you want more PWM, less PWM. So these really depend on what they are made for. So that's not exactly relevant to it. But you can, of course, create your own kind of Arduino compatible board around the 80 tiny and then use it along with the same code that we wrote. And also, I have been using PySero for this kind of communication. Okay. So sometimes I get a pipe broken. So that generally happens when you have terminated, so you unplugged it. Okay. Right? So from one end the connection has closed, but the other side has not gotten the communication. Actually, it was showing in the, like, the ID of the board. But the connection was not happening. What used to happen was, like, when I used to send data to PySerial and get the response back from the Python code, so that time it used to break that connection. Yeah. So that would happen because if your OS reevaluates the port, maybe it is unplugged, reset or something, the port on which it is there changes. The OS, the Python does not really know if that happened. So it's like saying that the connection broke in between and before while communication is happening, but the notification did not reach the microcontroller, the Python part. Does the board rate affect this time? No, not really. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Him? Yeah. Can I directly address the pen on the Arduino through the Python code? Yes, you can. Not via Python, but there is a get request and post request API again. So if you just on your microcontroller, if you see get, and then you put in the URL and you see pin and digital and digital, it will get it directly without you having to run any code even. So it's like a small... Yes, there are quite a few. So because it's Linux, there are quite a few scripts running in the background which are ready to respond back with data. Is there any simulation library for Arduino? Can we simulate in Python? In any... So I mean there are quite a lot of people who offer simulation tools. So for example, they're simulating if you use that. I'm not sure if DINPAI supports that yet, but there are quite a few simulation libraries for that. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Ankit. Yeah. Thanks for your wonderful...


what is going on?


We need as many people as possible. Rolling the words sustainability, sustainable development goals off of their tongues and that comes from education. Education is something that should be available to everybody. Again, green, purple, tall, short, young, old, whatever. We need to make sure that we are sustainably inclusive that people know about water systems, that people know about supply chain, food sourcing, everything we need to know about the climate, innovation. We need to educate and we need to be inclusive. We need to provide internships. We need to go out of our way to not do the thing that's easy. Oh, let's just ask so-and-so or so-and-so because they know so-and-so and so-and-so. No, talk to somebody and bring in, seek people, regions, products, services, whatever you don't know about. Wilhelmina Jules-Sparks is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas, brought to you by 1.5 Media and Innovators Magazine. Jules is a global executive who has worked in both corporate and startup environments for over 20 years, preparing markets and launching innovative products and services in science, technology, retail, and food industries. She is the founder of United 17 Venture Lab and CEO of BitHouse Venture Group, which is a global business development cultivator fostering collaboration and innovation culture amongst corporates, innovators, investors, governments, and community. She is a trained biotechnologist, global market strategist, and strategic communications expert from the United States, based in Germany and Copenhagen. She is an active technology scout, angel investor, and venture partner focused on sustainably innovative technology solutions for corporate venture capital funds and government entities as the need for customer engagement growth, digitalization, and corporate innovation increases. She serves on several global advisory boards. The IADAS, which stands for International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences, amongst others, is also a guest lecturer of the Corporate Innovation at WHU Otto Beesheim School of Management and as an active advisor, mentor to several startups and accelerator programs focused on IoT, AI, mobility, agri-food, retail, entertainment, fashion, sustainability, and health. Jewel is the founder of the AgTech FoodTech Summit and was the founder of FoodTech Group of the Deutsche Startup Association, the German Startup Association. Bridging the gap by connecting the dots is her motto. Jewel, welcome to the show. Hey, Mara, how are you today? Most excellent, and it's so good to see you. Just for our listeners, I want them to know we're friends, we've been friends for a while, our paths have crossed numerous times. I think that the big first time was when you invited me to speak at your AgTech FoodTech event in Berlin, was it the factory Berlin? Is that what the name of the location, the spot was? It was at the factory. Actually, it was before they had actually completed the whole downstairs areas when they first kind of embarked upon Berlin, actually. So those were good times. Yeah, that was a wonderful time. And we had a great event and it was real big. You used to be the global head of innovation and scouting for Metro Group and media. That was when before the merger or the separation of the media marked in Saturn Groups where there was a big, heavy technology focus as well in along with Metro, because of your technology background and things and your specialty towards food. And it was the beginning of also kind of starting collaboration with In Farm, which was a big new vertical farm, kind of in grocery store setup as well. And then shortly thereafter, we saw Obama together in Seeds and Chips in Milan. And yeah, I mean, and then South by Southwest. We actually, yeah, we shared some expensive accommodations there and had a good time. I had a booth and you were out and about crazy speaking and doing all sorts of stuff there. And then I think, and I might be wrong, the last time we saw each other was at Mobile World Congress four years from now in Barcelona, right? That is absolutely correct. And that was like in 2019. Yeah, and then during that time, we actually went to a cool, a really cool party. And I can't remember, it was at a brewery. It was one of Barcelona's oldest, yeah. Yeah, it was the IoT, it was the IoT stars events and it was TechEU was one of the sponsors. Remember that? That was cool, yeah. That was way cool. And then Osun Lani, one of my other friends, he was like the DJ there and a speaker. He was also speaking in Barcelona. And so, I mean, we're past the cross. We've had some good times eating together, chatting, hung out, but also being very serious about food and doing things.  I want to remove some bias and make some sense of the world and catch up with you if that's okay. Yeah, that's awesome. And Mark, you know, I always have time for you. Now you're the one that's always busy. Let's be honest with our audience, okay? Okay, but I am happy to be able to speak to you as well today on International Women's Day. I really thought that I didn't even put two and two together, but I was like, oh my God, what a better person. There's not a better person to actually take the time and spend time with virtually than you. So thank you very much for having me as a guest. You're most welcome. And yes, you're right. It is International Women's Day. And it's time to flip the switch.  And I think you know this very well. I think we've had some conversations about the strong female influence in my life and how I feel about sustainability and that women and girls are really the biggest lever of humanity to draw down all the human suffering, the global problems, the things in our world to get us back into a better operating system, a world of more inclusiveness and just get us back to, or not even back, get us into a better future for humanity with some strong leadership. Yeah, I think that I don't know. It's someone, I'm doing a talk tonight actually on Clubhouse and it's these amazing women that are in virtual reality and on minute reality. And one of the speakers brought up this very important point as we were preparing.  And somehow in the process it's throughout this journey or the evolution, all of a sudden it was kind of, like now the question is, as can women really do the job? And so the question, I mean, it brought up something that I didn't even think about. It's like a lot of these innovations or a lot of these tasks and skillsets. I mean, women were a part of the solution from all along and sometimes at the very beginning. But somehow like, I don't know, like it just started the whole various career paths and things like that just started getting dominated. And maybe it's because of the nature, the communication style, maybe, you know, a lot of us, you know, today where we're talking about gender diversity and inclusion and things like that, sometimes, you know, they always, a lot of people refer to like someone's presentation of themselves or their communication style and things like that. So maybe things just kind of switched up due to like the assertiveness of men and maybe some of the kindness or the gentleness of women over time. And then yet there seems also to be an issue when we speak up and when we also address what our skills are. And sometimes if we do that, then we're kind of like, oh, aggressive or difficult to work with. And but I would never say that about like, and a lot of people would never say that about their male friends or colleagues if they just demanded what they knew that, you know, they wanted or could do. So that was a little bit of a tangent, but I just kind of wanted to say it because you were talking about, we need like women to kind of like reboot things. And I just know that we're always there. I mean, we even give birth to everybody. So I mean, that's really interesting. I don't know what's been happening or why things have happened, why this imbalance has occurred and now more than ever, of course, the pandemic has shown just how like whack things are, just how like imbalanced or unbalanced the systems are. And also a lot of the pain and the suffering that a lot of individuals go through.  Some people have been able to handle it well and some people they haven't. And so, I mean, it's just been a very, very sensitive time, I think for everybody, regardless on which side of the spectrum you stand. So lots of healing definitely needs to be done. Absolutely for sure. And a lot of people don't take the time to put themselves in another person's shoes or to think about the bigger picture and in reality. And this is kind of what I besides talking about our friendship over the years and places where our paths have crossed. Really what I was saying is that you're the one who invited me to your summit, AgTech FoodTech, and gave me the opportunity to speak there. That was your event, woman led, woman run, a lot of woman help and that, I loved it. And I was honored to have a seat at the table or a voice at the table to take part of that. And I know that you over the years really look for not only diversity, but the best voices. It's not necessarily say, okay, it's just gotta be a woman. It's just who's the best in tech? Who's the best in that? And many times it is woman, especially in the food industry. And we really need to recognize that. Second, Innovators Magazine, 1.5 Media, Susan Robertson, she's the head of that. And along with her husband, a strong powerhouse. And Seeds and Chips, Sharon Citone is not the head, but she was really running all the speakers and getting people to the event. I remember a horrible thing and maybe, I can't remember if you ever got your coat back, but Seeds and Chips, you did, okay, great. So Seeds and Chips, you lost a very beautiful and expensive coat and it was precious to you, but then you ended up getting it back. But Sharon kind of, she organized a lot of the speakers, the events and was that she's moved on to sustainability, I believe is the company now does a bunch of other things. She's with Deloitte now. She's with Deloitte now. She does a lot there, their Accelerator program. Yeah. Yeah. And just on and on, I could go on for hours with the wonderful women who are really stepping up to the place, setting the example, paving the way, also empowering other women and girls, not be afraid.  We need to get back on the battle. No, no, no, we all need each other. We all need each other. But you know what? I do want to go back on one point you were talking about. There's a lot, usually the women that are behind the scenes and really the nuts and bolts. Just a bullet point about you being a speaker at the AgTech Food Tech Summit. That is an event that I basically, I still finance the whole time. Why? Because no one would give me money, but everyone else who has, after me, there's tons of resources and money that people are getting for these types of events. But I was thinking about this today, like I was very grateful, I guess, for my past life as a molecular biologist and in biotech because it's those, that career actually that has been providing for me, I'd say the last 10 years because there is this very interesting, I don't know what's going on in the world, but I mean, I see tons of my colleagues or people that I know and some of them have experience, some of them aren't really that experienced, but I mean, there's not a lack of resources for certain people and if they're male and then also I think about some of my female friends and colleagues who can hide behind either their blonde or brunette hair and their lack of melanin in their skin. And so I think that that's something that when you said putting yourself in someone else's shoes, that's something that's been a very interesting experience for me to kind of see how like the food and the food tech and all this stuff has transformed and the resources that are out there, but resources that still if people had a choice and they do have a choice, they still actually have not chosen to give it to me. And I'm just very grateful that I have my own personal resources to be able to do this and be able to bring to the forefront different events where there's all types of people, best voices, no matter what they look like, no matter what gender. And this just speaks to having a very globally diverse ecosystem and friend network that I've had throughout my life and throughout my career and it's really a blessing. And I wish that I could also meet more people like that and so things wouldn't be so difficult when I'm not sitting in front of those that I know and those that have been a part of my life. I totally agree and I think that one thing if those who don't know you, it's you're persistent, you're not going anywhere, you're sticking around, you're passionate about what you do and you're gonna be there no matter what and you'll find a way to do it. And I think I hope over the years that it's gotten better and better that you've seen more support and more funds and that maybe even during this time of the pandemic that you've seen more people come back to you to say, hey, really, we remember what you told us or what you were trying to tell us before and now is the time, can you help us put this into the practice and that those things continually to come more and more so that you would really see even more fruits because you're such a wonderful person and what you do I think it's really needs to is such a benefit to the world and everybody we know, but also those around the world that really need not just that empowerment but also that ag tech, food tech, technology and any respects mixed in with a strong empowered woman really someone there to set the example. That leads me really to my first question. And yeah, yeah, we already know the answer basically you know, Germany, Copenhagen from America are you a global citizen and how would you feel about a world without divisions of humanity one from another without nations, borders, divisions, separation of us one from another? I am a global citizen, as you know I've come a long ways since those days in Kansas and lived on all the coasts and in the middle of the US, lived in Japan now like as you said, I'm in Germany and Copenhagen I also spend some time in Sweden and Austria and the world without borders would be great unfortunately the sad part about the pandemic is that the borders are becoming like from a digital perspective, it's borderless so that's good, but that's something I think that me as a person that's been in tech I've always liked utilize the technology like vehicle to cross borders as I'm always about minimizing barriers to entry but one interesting scenario that has happened as we've seen over the last year and I specifically saw it last year because I had a home in Copenhagen and in Berlin and just being able to get back to Germany or go from Germany back to my place in Copenhagen it was such a traumatic experience from a travel perspective that to be honest I've totally lost my appetite to go across border in a physical way, but definitely in a digital way I'm all about like streamlining those processes look you and I are talking you're in some other part of the Germany and this is how I mean I'm able to talk to people in New York I'm able to talk to everybody now virtually but I think physically showing up is definitely not going to get easier even once things kind of lift as a result of the pandemic I think we'll realize how much we've changed as individuals, which I also realized like I used to be on the plane like three times a week totally loved it because I could see different people I could read like different air I could like sense and like really kind of see what the different cultures were with the different like motivations were people like literally lay my eyes on people but even me when I had to go from here to Copenhagen I mean it took like a week for me to like recover just because it was such a process the mask, the wearing about like my neighbor in the seat next to me like were they as safe as I was where they cared about like who they would interact with or if they had the virus and if they could give it just or were they hopping on an airplane knowing that they were positive so I mean it's like I just feel like I don't even have the appetite to even want to travel and I never thought that I would say that because that's been so much a part of my life for years so that's, I think we're all gonna realize that we've changed a lot without even knowing it once things really changed. Oh for sure, the whole world's changed and I absolutely don't wanna go back I want us to truly make that digital transformation I want us to have broadband as a human right for everyone and kind of get us up to speed with our exponentially growing world so that these such miniscule small viruses or problems can't have such a big ripple effect on how humanity interacts one with another that we've advanced as a civilization as humanity in a way that we're adept and have the tools to deal with those things and not to just perpetuate human suffering and perpetuate us talking about our global grand challenges instead of acting on actively solving those problems for the future. There is one really other big question so you've been doing this for quite some time you've been involved in this space for a long time and you touched upon it and you're kind of some of the things that we talked about before and as well as the global citizen but how have you weathered this whole pandemic time and this whole Black Lives Matters and the crazy inauguration in the US and the Brexit and all the other craziness that's been going on in the world and did any of that skills or knowledge or that wisdom that you have before help you be more resilient and in those places that it didn't, what were some of your learning lessons what were some of the things you touched upon a few of them and so I'd like you to bring those out. I do know and I don't know if you don't need to talk about it but you started a podcast and done a few episodes called Pandem which is I guess short for pandemic yeah, Pandem files and so just catch us up to speed and tell us how, were you more resilient or were you also, I mean I kind of hear both but I'd like to get caught up a little more. So Mark the truth is my first job out of college was in Japan so I spent four years in Japan and now the Japanese they don't touch people when they greet so to be honest, I also realized like actually I was kind of grateful when the pandemic happened because actually I realized throughout my life I've had to unfortunately shade people's hand or give people hugs when I really haven't wanted to when I really had just wanted to look at them and say hey, how you doing? Good to see you today. So in one sense I've kind of been very grateful for the pandemic from a personal space perspective. Also on my Myers-Briggs I've known for since 1997 that I'm an INTP so I'm introverted so I've also been very happy that I don't have to see people and I can justify like that I don't have to personally see people and so it's kind of been good for me. I mean I think the challenge has been is it's one thing to not see people because you don't want to it's another thing when you're forced not to see people. And so I do realize that every once in a while when I would say I would creep out in terms of like wanting to meet with a business colleague or have a cup of coffee and not being able to do that although it's very infrequently that's when I kind of realized hey, wait, hold up, wait a minute, the world really has changed. And then being here and reflecting on like all the stuff that was happening in America with George Floyd and stuff like that during the pandemic and being still and really me not having to go above and beyond to try to prove to other people that I either deserve an opportunity or that I should also have a seat at the table, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I mean I actually really had some aha moments and it became really real the reason actually why I after being back in the States since my job in Japan why after I think it was like 17 plus years where I was like I need a break in the first place it actually made me realize why I left America and went and came to Europe. And in Europe it's not like they like are doing kumbaya moments or embracing me like, you know, anyway but the deal is it's one thing I think to be in a different country when you're definitely not from that country where you're not a national that country and people bring up oh you're American and we're German versus being in your own country and people constantly questioning what are you doing here? And I really wanna say what are you doing? I know I'm here I'm like Native American and I'm black. I mean my family actually has land we have a farm in Alabama. I'm here because I actually am American. I'm American, I'm black American, I'm Native American and I belong here but I mean that's it's kind of like an oxymoron, you know to be in your own country and to be qualified for jobs or to walk into a bank account people that gets you like you crazy, you know and that you don't have, you know they think that you have to be in a certain place or they try to discriminate against you versus being here. So I mean for me it was great to see that everybody in America started to have this aha moment there was this opportunity for people to be able to speak up and to embrace their whole selves and not be like, you know, hide out or if you have lighter skin to try to like make yourself in a way that where people aren't questioning you or discriminating trying to hide in, you know, with the mix and stuff like that. And then being in Europe, what I also realized though what's been kind of interesting being here I don't think America realizes how much Europeans or the rest of the world looks at what they're doing to figure out how they need to act or different trends or the way they need to treat people. So what's been kind of interesting is I think being in Europe, you know I mean if they some of the European see that in America they weren't so good to brown skinned people or whatever I think sometimes whether people made it verbally or not I think they're like, well in the US they aren't really good to brown people so why do we really need to be good to brown people? And to be honest I think I've experienced some of this in the tech and innovation field. I mean I come from San Francisco Silicon Valley there's very few people who actually have come from San Francisco working in tech in Berlin and the fact that I'm not included in a lot of these conversations, a lot of these venture capital like being brought to the table when they wanna assess like startups and things like that like to completely ignore that there's like literally like someone from the root of where all this stuff happened who's been working in diversity and technology since literally 2007 and all these like diversity and inclusion things in tech happening and still I don't get a call or people have events and then I email them on LinkedIn or email them in the mailbox and then they ignore me but then they pop something on LinkedIn about how successful their event was and it's a whole bunch of women but there's no brown women and there's no really no Americans there and then I'd say, hey you know I tried to contact you but I didn't hear anything and then they contact me say, oh, I'm sorry did you send a message? Oh, I'm so sorry I missed that. So this stuff still happens but it happens in a different way now it's like me being American in the European society and I think what's dangerous about I feel people's lack of awareness of me and the impact that I have whether it's political whether it's financial, whatever is that I think it's pretty sad I think because it would only enhance what they're doing nobody's trying to take over what anybody's doing I'm just trying to enhance it and to and I look at things, I mean, Europe when the Europe do is Europeans do when in Germany do is Germans do and so I mean my heart is here everything I've done has been what can I do to help enable the European ecosystem the entrepreneurs that are here the innovation ecosystem like what can I do to help like women and business and society, et cetera and I just would like the same I think type of consideration Well, you definitely deserve it and I would like to see you get that as well but I also feel that you're like you said earlier you're truly a global citizen so yes, when you're in Europe you definitely have that equality, that inclusiveness there as far as trying to really keep diversity and keep the voice and the messages going strong but it's really, we're all distant cousins we're all on the same spaceship earth there's these operating systems that we've been working with and a civilization framework so they're just not they're not working for us all anymore and this pandemic has really been probably the biggest microscope to shine on where all the systemic problems are where the problems that need to be fixed what should we change? How can we improve? How can we come together? And it takes an army too, you know it takes an army I mean, and I think the one thing for me like my aha moment is like I've always been the one to be able to step out my box and kind of like see what everybody else would feel I'm always usually the only one at the table the quote unquote one different person and you know, I think that that also gets old and I think for me, I just kind of during the pandemic I just have like put on the brakes, you know like I'm not, I've made the decision that it's not my responsibility to try to you know to try to open the eyes of everyone else and I think for the majority of my life and the majority of my career I mean, I've done that like not consciously but subconsciously, you know growing up in Kansas, you know there's not a lot of black people and then also I went to the school, you know a private school and you know I was like one, you know one brown skinned person and I think a couple of years a couple others came but I mean, I think by default I've always just always been in a situation where I've had to like show other people you know, or enlighten other people and then I just realized that, you know it's time for me to be enlightened, you know like, and so I think that that's the biggest change that has happened to me during the pandemic and then also like there's been so many things I've been quiet about throughout the years just because I haven't wanted to like disrupt anything but the truth is it's already disrupted I mean, like the fact is like, you know people, if people aren't gonna give you an opportunity or people think that you're this way or that way they're gonna think that regardless of what you do or how you act so I realized like I need to stop like, you know kind of being my like button things up and like trying to be exactly like the other people when I wished that they would actually try to be exactly like me so that's been the biggest change and it's been really a great relief to be quite honest and it's been great just to say what I have to say and say how certain things have made me feel and then it's been weird though because I'll say like someone did something recently a few weeks ago and I knew that I was like kind of like the only one like it was a last minute decision but they were like, oh my God, we need to show or act like we're inclusive so who's the other one black person that I know or the one black woman that I know that's in Europe because I can check off the European box I can check off, oh, she's black oh, she's a woman type of thing and I basically like kind of caught them out and I was like, look, you know, I'm happy first of all that you do know me and that you did invite me in the last minute but let's just keep it real unless I just want you to be aware that that's why and that's what happened and then to be told that they were heard or disappointed by that and I was like, okay, imagine then how I felt like let's not tell you the number of years of my life that I felt that way like if you feel like I've hurt you because I brought that up then I guess triple that or make it times 10 of what you feel and then maybe at this point you'll change your behavior or be aware that that's how you make other people feel who are different next time you wait last minute to ask them to join your panel or something like that. Yeah, I definitely know, not personally but I kind of can tell what you're feeling and I would say I can feel for you what you're going through and just honestly, I have to bring out some truths and in my podcast, I don't think, I'm not sure I have very many diverse people, listeners that is and I had a wonderful lady, Professor Shalonda Baker on the show she's from, she was living in Boston at the time but she wrote a book for Island Press and I was reviewing her book and had her on the podcast it was one of the best podcasts I'd had and I was so excited and in the podcast I actually talk about how it was right after the riots but it was also right at the time that we knew that Biden and Kamala were going to be there the next, moving into the White House and taking over and were really positive and excited about it but she was a lawyer that dealt with racial inequalities around energy and energy deserts, energy security, energy issues especially with renewables and indigenous people and things and I says, you know the Biden Harris administration and be so excited to have you and you're really gonna help them and she like kind of froze and she looked and she like, she couldn't say anything but then when the podcast came out she was made deputy director of the department of energy and we talked about that in the podcast it was just so fabulous that she was on the show and it was such an entertaining and it was really about basing needs and it was hardly been watched it's been listened to quite a bit it's one of my top listens on the podcast really has hardly been even watched and I'm like, do I have a bunch of racists that are my listeners or what's the reason it's so fabulous I even went and did extra promotions and I was like, you know and it just doesn't make sense and then I also had a new SDG advocate for a couple of years now Hindu Ibrahim, Hindu Umaru Ibrahim from Chad she's the head of the indigenous tribes and she was on it she got a lot of evidence but she's also a superstar but Shalanda was superstar as well and I think there's just some in Europe and all over the world there's just people that just don't get it yet they don't understand that we're all distant cousins that there is no difference between us it's just there's something there that I don't know I mean I don't think it's because like people don't get it I just think again it's like I think the more your dinner table looks different for example and the more your office cafeteria or your team looks different I mean, it just becomes like a natural thing like you'll listen to whoever regardless of whatever as long as the content is something of interest and I think it just goes back it's not about race it's not about gender I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with like your interest and so for me the way I was raised my dad always said like start with everything else and then use that maybe it's because you have nice melanin last and maybe it's just because the topic she was talking about isn't something that people are at this point taking time to care about so it could be it could have been a topic issue in terms of what she was discussing more than anything and then maybe later it could have been all those other things but I just think at the top of everyone's mind it's probably not like legal issues around energy renewable energies it's more like issues of like what am I gonna eat am I gonna be safe going to the grocery store like oh my God when am I gonna get my vaccine or what's going on with this pandemic so I think the one thing we realized during the pandemic like we all are the same in the sense like we wanna make sure we're healthy we wanna make sure we have food to eat and we wanna make sure that we're surrounded by like a safe environment and I think that all of us are what we thought was important before has shifted you know like I mean like I could spit off like a whole bunch of like technological numbers and molecular biological and this and that and that but right now it's like I just like wanna have like comment talk I don't need to like people can Google like if I wanna talk about the number of folks that have waste you know like tons of waste per year or this or that you know sometimes you see you know some of these talks and people are like well this percentage of you know and then some people get all impressed but I'm like that stuff is on the Wikipedia now so instead bring out your personality bring out like kind of the way that you're gonna impact things the way that you're gonna make change happen and your influence and to me I think that human factor is like become a lot more relevant right now than anything and being able to keep it real and I think post pandemic the way that also changes like you know I never have you know this Mark I've never gravitated towards bullshit I don't get impressed by like people spitting off this or that or how much you know money somebody has I actually watch people and I've watched them over the years in terms of how they treat other people and do they give to people and do they still wanna interact with people even when quote unquote those people can't do something for them one thing that I noticed is when I was like the global head of innovation for Metro Group and scouting inclusion for Metro Group everybody wanted to talk to me the moment that I took my separation package all of a sudden it was like man you could hear like a little I don't know you can hear like little tweet tweet like if there was a little mosquito or something you could hear it just so loud because all of a sudden people are like well she can't really help us anymore and the truth is I wasn't really trying to help most of the people anyway even when I was there just because I knew I could tell that their intentions were the wrong intentions they didn't care about me they didn't care about what was really happening they didn't care about the innovative solutions they just cared about what can you make a connection here and there and this goes back- What can you do for me? What can you do for me? And the one thing that you're gonna realize and I mean I'm speaking for myself but I think as a woman of color where I've always had to do everything and go above and beyond I mean I know that the majority of people they always want some connection or something but they never keep me in the mix like even now more than ever I'm really really more than ever really not interested in helping I mean I really care about people who really care about me and what I bring to the table and my spirit and want to help me because I definitely have helped people all my life some out of necessity and some just out of the fact that I'm from Kansas and I'm a good person I was a Girl Scout for 13 years I love it You know I've seen in your background all the beautiful records of many I like Fast Domino and it reminds me I used to be kind of almost it was almost I didn't see it at all but when I was younger growing up in high school college days I was a big DJ I DJed a lot I was fortunate enough to get on a radio station and I was the only white guy in a whole radio station the whole radio station was Rhythm of the City new jazz rhythm, soul and new rap and I had the probably the courteous job there but I just loved it I loved the music I loved the people you know we'd do these parties that was the only white guy that'd show up you know but it was just so much fun and I didn't ever didn't ever realize that my family and parents they thought you know Mark is weird he's kind of a weird guy but when I look at those records and your great taste and music and that I you know it reminds me of those hidden things from my past that I just think it makes for a better life it makes for a better world when we all feel like we're together that there are you know there is no difference between us that we're all here on the same spaceship Earth and that we need to flip the switch and that's why it's so fitting that today's you know International Women's Day but also that we really we just had the whole black month as well just finished up and so many fabulous things are going on what? Yeah I was talking to you there you know what's so funny though I mean please don't think that just because black don't think also that black people love other black people either I mean I can honestly tell you I've reached out even to some black people and they still don't even contact me I mean there's just and I think that this is what's so bad it's like a domino fact same like with women that there's few women in a certain field like finance and things like that and if you're usually the only woman you know I don't think people are really talking about how hard it is to be inclusive even of other women if you've been in this atmosphere where it was so hard for you to get there yourself and you kind of like you and you you get in this routine you know where you're like doing everything above and beyond you finally have gotten your acceptance it's like people aren't really talking about the psychological behavior and the thing that happens then then another woman comes along when you're saying hey you got to have more women I don't think we realize how then some of us or some women they're like oh no not another one but I just got my place you know we so everybody has something to work on and um I've always been though the type of person you know because like I said when I was growing up there was few brown people but when I went to college in Pennsylvania and anytime I go somewhere I'm the person that sees somebody on the other side of the street I'm like hey how are you what's your name and they're always like so what I'm saying is you know there's also but this also brings me to the point like you know there was all this like uprising and things like that and I was like we can't you have to lead by example we can't expect everybody and people to embrace us for example if we won't even embrace ourselves if they see like just with other women if men see that you're mean or that you're disrespectful or that you're not inclusive to another woman that now all of a sudden is in your ecosystem you're giving them a pass to do the same thing and I think this is where we have to take responsibility for our actions if you so women out there if you have a problem with another woman that may be entering your sphere don't don't necessarily portray that out in public especially if it's more of a male dominated take the person aside tell them what your problem is don't but don't don't air the dirty laundry you know just we have to lead by example because people will always make an excuse to continue the bad you know ways that they act if they can so let's just not give it to them I agree and the other thing is is you know it's international women's day but then we're talking about people of color we're talking about racism we're talking about all these because the the the the lines blur in many respects because they're all systemically kind of connected in one way or the other there's no way to just I mean it has been done you know segregation and silo groups off into their individual but it's just a not not a model that works forever it's not a model that doesn't work period really but and so a lot of these lines blur as we talk about it you are working on or have been for quite some time on inclusiveness and and and being inclusive and some things can you tell us about some of the projects what you're working on what your feelings are where we need to go with with that absolutely so big house group actually was started like in 2007 and it was a result of me working like all these years in the biotech industry one there being so few women and definitely very few women who were like molecular biologists or then went to R&D cells and marketing and stuff like that and it was also started like you said that other layer like I remember one of the companies I worked for like when I first was hired I came in like it's one of the highest paid which actually was still very like hard for like the bosses to believe but anyway they had to stick with industry stranders and then you know they had to take me from the other company by the time like year three all of a sudden I was like the highest paid to like the second from the lowest on the team pay scale and that was an aha moment for me because it wasn't like my pay increase got less due to my performance it got less because I got labeled as the person that was difficult or that had a that was angry or something like that just because I was assertive when I realized that there were some racial and also some biases actually as it related to my skill sets versus the rest of the skills on the team and so big house was formed as a result of that because I realized that in the process I realized that I had to be quiet about what I knew just so I wouldn't piss off my boss who may have also been intimidated by me hence why they kept saying oh you know I wasn't a team player which is so not the case but that's actually how they were able to justify not giving me this the increase every year and so I went from here to here why everybody else went up because they liked them better or they said the right things or whatever so so big house group was formed as a result of that because I was thinking it was very important for people to be able to have a voice and so that's why it was called you know the best in tech but it's about minimizing barriers to entry and it started out the name was strategic diversity group to get corporates to be open minded which we're seeing right now with these innovation challenges to be open minded about diverse solutions in order to run their businesses without people being penalized so that's why I was called like out of the box strategic solutions to kind of put that hashtag so people would know it's not going to be a normal solution it's going to be a solution that you haven't heard before but don't like penalize people for being smart and intelligent and thinking of something that may be a bit futuristic so in terms of you asked the question like where can we go or what are some solutions I think we have to keep providing those safe spaces there's like this space where everybody is and where you have to go by the traditional like corporate guidelines or business guidelines but then I like how people are creating these moonshot spaces so they know you know that when people move over here or they come contact strategic diversity group or bit house group that you know that these are going to be like out of the box kind of off the wall kind of a little bit like you know they are logical and they are technical and they are tangible but you got to be in the brain space to accept that this is okay and so I think if we keep creating these moonshot these innovation programs and not after two years be like oh we don't have time for that we need to always be innovative the one thing the pandemic has taught every company every person is that like look sure let's sit in the boardroom for five years ten years fifteen years and try to plan out step by step exactly what's going to happen or you can have the pandemic happen and then you have no choice and as we've seen the companies that were able to maneuver the fastest now all of a sudden are the companies that are on people's mind it didn't matter if a company had a good brand or service for 25, 30, 50 years what mattered was who right now came to rescue all of us during these really these disruptive times that we didn't foresee but what we've been planning for for 15, 20 years and then sometimes penalizing those brilliant people inside your company that kind of stuck outside the lines but they were trying to say something but we didn't want to listen because it was too much work it was a little bit out of our realm because we'd have to maybe miss a vacation day or something like that but at the end of the day if you don't do the work do the work and it could be different do the work that's you always do but do work that's different work so that's kind of my perspective I love it I love it the hardest question I have for you today is the burning question WTF I know it's not the swear word that everybody's been asking since the pandemic really hit and all the other craziness it's what's the future and so I want to know not what you think governments or countries I want to know what you think what's your vision of the future what's the future as it relates to what you have to be a little bit more specific it's up to you and there is no specific it's you know what what do you think the future is what's your future what's your plan where where are you going if you're gonna tell me say mark the future is this I see it as this you know I'm putting you on the spot but that's why it's the burning question the future is uh the awakening of all of us meaning people feeling comfortable bringing their whole selves their entire selves to both work to home and even if it's like you know they like to wear white sheets with holes in the eyes I mean like but still people being able to own up to that and be like yeah at night you know I creep and I'd be like I have white sheets on and I go around trying to scare people that don't look like me but owning up to that and then being able to have these conversations as to where that comes from you know like uh what what what is it like you feel like you could be a superhero you know what are you lacking at home maybe you don't feel like you know you're the man or the woman you know like what is it that like makes us who we are and being able to give people a space to conversate about that so I think the future is about like the intersection of being your whole self your entire self and like innovation and technology because I think the one thing that companies who for example have been able to continue and to continue financing their innovation ecosystems um even during the pandemic they had to take a step back and then they went inside the company and looked at kind of maybe like already art research and development projects that for example they put a tap on because they were like that was too much that was that was too much from our core business I think what we realize is that core business is all business right now all potential opportunities so if you have like a lot of these untapped that you know it's time to tap into the things that you thought you didn't need to tap into before because you got comfortable with your current revenue stream because that's the other thing we realize there is no comfort all revenue streams are all over the place right now right so like there we realize that there's room for growth and opportunity and that we should hire people by the way and be attracted to people that can tap into those things that we thought we didn't need to tap into because that wasn't where our main revenue was coming from that's what I want to say perfect I love it that the first half of what you mentioned made me think of this really hilarious movie but it was also very deep and very touching I don't know if you saw it it's called Jojo Rabbit it's very applicable to Germany where we're at because it has to do with it has to do with this this young boy during the war and he was part of the Hitler youth or kind of like the the Boy Scouts for Hitler type of a deal and it was called Jojo Rabbit and his best friend his imaginary invisible friend so to say was Hitler and just some of the conversations between the two of them where he realized that no that's not true I don't hate those people and I don't think that's correct and by owning up and coming out and putting those things out in the open like you said you know that's running around with a white sheet on but don't hide don't hide let's throw off let's throw off the covers and really get into a conversation about it and the thing is most of the conversations especially I mean that were heard during the inauguration and Trump and all that there wasn't a lot of intellectual conversations there wasn't a lot of conversations of depth and substance and once you get to the root of you know asking a few questions back and forth it's like yeah because I can respect what's the reality I can respect that someone that says look I prefer to wear white sheets and I totally don't like brown people versus me actually having to have coffee with them on a regular basis then pretending that they don't have a problem with me and that's why at the end of the day I may not get that paycheck because at the end of the day there may be some deep rooted now I could save a whole lot of time everybody could save a whole lot of time if it's kind of like I can respect that I can respect if you say look I don't like brown people I'll never like brown people I I think women they just need to be at home I'll be like you know what I totally respect that and you know what you're exactly I I don't think I need to spend any more of my time conversing with you thank you very much for freeing on my time to give it towards a situation that's going to cultivate like kind of a little bit more of a kumbaya or or like you know a better outcome thank you I'm so grateful thank you for sharing so just everybody should bring their entire self to the table people could save a lot of time and energy because time is money money is time and you know instead of like this uphill battle it could be easy let's keep it simple I agree I agree really these last three questions that I have for you are for my guests they're for my listeners as well that are a takeaway for them to help better their lives and if there was one message that you could depart to my listeners as a sustainable takeaway that has the power to change their life what would it be your message listen to yourself don't listen to other people what should young innovators in your field be thinking about if they're looking for ways to make a real impact if they're in the science field which I started out and just know that there's such a world of opportunities out there you can save people you don't need to for example or even if it's a rare disease or something that you want to try to solve or cure don't let your professors or anybody else like talk you out of it just say no this is what I want to do and make sure that you surround yourself with the people that want to help support you get there as it relates to helping with diversity inclusion and technology we have a long way to go let's not just use the buzzwords let's make sure that the products or the services that we create basically have all types of people at the table all types of engineers or programmers and if they aren't programming make sure they're spending time with your programmers I mean old people I mean like green people I mean yellow people I mean I mean all types of people people that are disabled everybody these products and services that we're making we don't need to worry about once we've tapped out and kind of capitalize on all the markets that we thought we wanted to target we don't then need to go back and say oh yeah now we need to worry about women liking this hardware product or now we need to worry about it but old person can use it this should be at the very forefront when you're making these products and these services like you may not like put your all your money in marketing towards that but at the very beginning you have to realize it actually changes the whole code if you can already why are we wasting all this money when we got to we'll have to then backtrack and say oh yeah we forgot that this artificial intelligence solution like it was there was a mishap because that old person was moving a little bit slower than we thought and then actually didn't see them and the thing you know start that at the beginning that's like a waste of money and give that money to somebody that could use it but you have to be inclusive of like what needs to be written in the code to create products and services that everybody can use regardless of if that's your first go to market strategy now as it relates to sustainability now we need to make sure now we know that most things especially products are expensive which by default I think we also make the assumption that maybe certain people don't matter when it comes to us like doing our market research and things like that now sustainability if you're not using it as a buzzword means that you know you're supposed to care about all of mankind in the all of environment not just the pretty spaces I'm talking about the barren spaces I'm talking about the spaces that you probably don't even know what the name is so what that means is we need as many people as possible rolling the words sustainability sustainable development goals off of their tongues and that comes from education education is something that should be available to everybody again green purple tall short young old whatever we need to make sure that we are sustainably inclusive that people know about water systems that people know about supply chain food sourcing everything we need to know about the climate innovation we need to educate and we need to be inclusive we need to provide internships we need to go out of our way to not do the thing that's easy oh let's just ask so-and-so or so-and-so because they know so-and-so and so-and-so no talk to somebody and bring and seek people regions products services whatever you don't know about you know like go on a mission use 20% of your time in situations that you know nothing about 20% of your time with people you don't know or weren't referred to if we start with 20% then maybe two years later we can do the 40% and then we can finally by maybe in seven years be at 50 50 50 people I percent of people I know are resources I know or things I know about and then 50% I don't and I think that that way the world would be a better place we got it we have to really reserve 20% of our time in our ecosystem and the way we function the way we work the way we talk the way we eat everything to something that is unknown I really like what you said because inclusivity but also writing it into into the code and we can tie it to the sustainable development goals but we can tie it to anything else the sustainable development goals aren't an add-on that you add to the economy or to our world operating system after it's already been built it's something that's deeply ingrained from the beginning it's deeply ingrained in the code from the beginning it's not like when you get done with the code and say oh we left out people of color we left out the elderly we left out these purple and yellow people and we got oh we got to pop in an add-on here's a little plug in okay no it don't work like that that's a broken system that's not going to function that's not how the world works and what most people don't understand is the all 17 of the United Nations sustainable development goals not only the world's first ever global moonshot ever a historical precedence never seen in humanities history ever before that 197 countries came together and agreed on a roadmap a plan for our future and it's not an add-on it's an entirely new economy it's an entirely new operating system it is not an add-on or tweak it is a new way it's that you know and that's kind of one reason why I asked the question you know what's the future I want people just tell me what the plan is for the future what's the goal what's the plan what's the model for the future and I have until now I have nobody says oh it's the sustainable development goals it's the Paris Agreement it's the green the new green deal it's the donut economics it's the planetary boundaries none of them they're like you know they all have their own thing I'll tell you what it's the SDGs and the Paris Agreement are historical precedents but they're only the only global goal or roadmap to the future that we have I don't know of any other ones that have been as well thought out planned out and inclusive of everyone women all ethnicities everything is thought of in that plan and it's not an add-on it needs to be ingrained deep into the code of the the great reset the new beginning towards a a better infrastructure for the world and so I love how you said that I agree and the deal is you know throughout my career like a lot of people said but you started out as a biologist how is it that you've done this this this and this and this and this is the one thing the biggest difference in Europe so Europe you know you go you you go to school and you have one trade and then you get a PhD and you do this like all your life right till you die yeah right the one thing that we're realizing also like I think with the impacts of the pandemic as well as like even like you said the SDGs you need there's one common pillar and one common pillar is like society or two society and environment and with that comes all these other industries so I I love it when people ask me like well how could you do that or like you know God you like done all the I'm like yeah but the pillar has always been innovation and technology right it doesn't matter those things are industry agnostic every every industry needs to innovate there is a science to every single thing you know like so yeah I was a molecular biologist so it's about the DNA and then making sure that you have the right elements you know in the middle of the nucleus so no matter how much and when we grow and evolve like us we grow and evolve every year but we all start out with the right chromosomes or the DNA that then has evolved as we've gotten taller older or our body you know like that's what I'm saying it's about starting with the right like kind of like elements the right building blocks code elements the right seeds and so all my life I focus on the right season like being in science has been able to help so I can work in any industry but because I'm always trying to get to the root of how it works and then that module of like the specifics of the industry that's like 20% of actually what you need to know to be in that industry every business has the same situation they need to know what the products the brain to market they need to know you know how to position in the market they need to know like how to generate cells they need to know how to reach customers and engagement and loyalty those things are industry diagnostic yeah I love it the last question I have for you is what have you experienced or learned in your professional journey so far that you would have loved to know from the start I think I've learned it's not always what you know it's like maybe more of who you know and I think that women and specifically minority parents need to also tell their children how important it is for them to socialize and to network and not just be like you need to be 10 times better than everyone else because the one thing I've realized is that knowing what I know and knowing how to do my jobs that's been like the scariest thing for everybody that has been in my jobs or been trying to hire me for the jobs it's like I feel like I we have and the more that I tone down and act it maybe like I didn't have a brain unfortunately I hate to say this but the more comfortable people felt and so I think it's about networking we can't like guilt trip our children you know just because their education is expensive or like life is hard to be like you know no matter what make sure you study all the time make sure you know everything that doesn't help you as much as making sure that people that you know the right people so um there's a author's names John P Strelecki he's a friend of mine and it's actually one of the very first podcasts that I started with and he wrote a bunch of books to the white cafe and big five for life but he always says you know if you want to be a scientist if you want to be an entrepreneur if you want to save the world or do do anything he says find the who it's not the why or your purpose those are important but find the person who has already done that who's paved the way who's done it different than others and see if you're aligned and then go out and either read everything they've done watch the videos try to contact them directly and get their mentorship and find out how they did it and then follow that lead there's no reason to reinvent the will and so I like that that really ties to this networking and that journey that you've had before as you have other degrees and experiences but I use them in a much different way now today I'm not a lawyer I'm not out there every day on the farm I'm not doing economics or producing food in the way that most people would think but doing it in a different way and that's because I found a way that all that education and experience can work for me and I really appreciate your time today Joel it's been so good to talk to you and catch up and get your points of view on this wonderful international women's day and I wish you all the best and unless you have something else you'd like to add or say we're done I really appreciate your time for that you've noticed you know during our podcast my record fell off the wall I wanted to add a little bit of comedy but this is like my favorite record and these records are actually my dad's old collection and some of you know he actually passed away my sophomore year of college and every time I go back to Kansas I try to bring as many as I can that a fit in my suitcase without like having me making me pay extra baggage because he has a wonderful collection I have about 250 more records to go so whenever I play his old records that we used to dance to and family night on Friday nights in the family room it's really great and good for my soul so I got my nice technique turntables usually on Sunday it's like me and Pops with his music and me and my cup of coffee so first of all let's always ask the question what's going on and then let's always try to figure out how we can do something to solve what may be going on especially if it's not right thanks so much Joe you have a wonderful day we'll talk very soon