1250 and I believe we have a we should have plenty of time for questions But I want to start by putting Mark on the spot because I know he can handle the pressure and Mark would you restate the question you asked so that? Kristen and Howard can have a chance to to respond to it because I know you wanted the Insights of all three of the speakers sure, so the question is how do we engage with the Intended audience of end users to better improve the products that we're creating to serve them and So specifically the examples would be things like the clean gen resource the ignite page those sorts of things We're just not engaging with the end users in a substantive way to be able to make sure that what we're delivering is what they want Okay, well one one of the things so we've done that a little bit locally and pointed out sources and One of the things we found is that if if the if the resource meets an unmet need Then they're they're all over it and they'll use it and go for it If it doesn't meet an unmet need they might use it once because it's kind of neat and then we'll never go back again So I think part of it is making sure that as many of the unmet needs as possible are included there and and you'll try I mean, you know logical stuff, but That's barely been the because when it comes down to a lot of the practitioners Both an oncology and then we do some work in salt or transplant in the psychiatry area All those different areas they only have a fixed amount of time for any kind of education Some less some more and and just don't want to know about anything unless they can use it You know, so I think part of it's just making things more practical and more more obviously practical Because that's then they'll find it But in some ways that's total logic Because if you can't get them engaged on the front end Then it's difficult to get that information back, you know, because we have good evidence that you know Clean gen and I think it was a subject of an entire NHGRI meeting was a clean gen was a really Necessary resource and that everybody endorsed the fact that this is meeting an unmet need But I think what we're seeing is is that while we're trying to make it practical and be able to deliver information At the point of care when a clinician has a question so they can answer it quickly Actually getting to the point of having them even use it that one time and provide feedback is is the difficult That's the difficulty we're having. How do we reach them? Turned it off now, isn't this more like Apple in the iPod? I mean it's convincing somebody they need to buy something They don't know they need yet So if we could figure out how to do that approach that yeah that model would work But the problem has been we we haven't we haven't had tools that answered the broad burning questions to the point Where everyone's got to have one Even though they didn't know what it was five minutes ago They just got to have one and that and that's been been part of it We also don't have the marketing budget that Apple did in order to drive drive people to want to have that I mean, I do wonder I don't know if Bob still here, but I don't have we ever tried the like a white label approach where a Society can stick their name on it powered by ISCC Type of thing because that that might be one way of getting getting past the mass mailing issue We have not tried that And I would add I guess two things to Howard One I think is really important is that I think we have to keep in mind that not the information doesn't just have to be there It has to be easily accessible and usable and so I think looking at I know I don't see Donna in here But I think Donna did usability testing for g2c2 and did it in conjunction with another conference that you guys had last Last summer and so I think next year with the precision medicine conference We'd like to do usability testing with the ignite toolbox and really say does this is doing what we think that is doing So we I think we have to ask that question. I think the other piece is incorporating into training so Bob mentioned the trig program and rich Haspel's really led It's really an amazing program from the content and the approach to learning But you know it's really a part of what they do as part of the training and so it's got to be incorporated into kind of that Applications based this is how you use it. They really have to it's almost like it has to be part of the training to train They use the tools so I'm gonna Push back because we know all the yeah really So the issue is not how to do it. I think we know how to do it If I'm trying to sell my vacuum cleaner, I can't even get my foot in the door To the people that are using it so so I could we've done them the meeting thing with usability But we've done it at genetics meetings and and how can we get to all of the other meetings? You know to try and get in front of people So I guess what I'm trying to say is is that it and the reason I was picking on Bob Was because we have a convened group of People across multiple specialties that are engaged in this area and so It's it seems to me that that's a group that could serve this function But we've not been able to really get that across the the finish line You mentioned a convene group that are engaged in this area And maybe that's the key is you really need a convene group of people who aren't engaged in this area to kind of see What is it? What's the barrier and what's keeping? You know if it's if it's not being used what what and why that is So my comment is related to that so the traditional academic approach to is to build a solution And then find a problem to solve with it. And so if you're more in the commercial space you would Say I think I know what problem I need to solve But then an entertain a marketing group to help you know that does focus groups and really tries to get under the hood of what's going to really get Traction if you actually develop the product what solution is it trying what a problem is it trying to solve and how would it be? Adopted so I don't know that I think you're you're sort of going in that direction where you would say Let's really get the user community Which is what you were saying earlier to to help us understand what their needs are and then modify or build those solutions Yeah, I mean I was gonna sort of say something similar I so maybe mark you can clarify who end-user is I mean is that the clinician physician whatever at the point of Care because I'm not sure that they have they feel that they have an unmet need Right, and I don't know that it's realistic that they're gonna pop on to Clinjan or ClinVar or fancy KB. I mean we you know in our CDS alerts We'd link them out to evidence and the last time I looked no one had ever clicked on it Right, so I think I don't I mean I completely agree with Jeff I'm not sure that I'm not sure they feel they have a need and they're not gonna go do something extra in their Been a busy clinical time To do something that fills a need that they don't even recognize that they have yeah, and that may be the issue Now again, you know, I'll just you know push back in terms of Jeff is that you know We did we had pretty good signal that you know that there was a need for ClinGen from a pretty broad Group of stakeholders, and so it was it was compelling enough that you know There was a funding announcement that was issued and an act that Anna has now been refunded so but And I think the point that that Julia's raising was a very good one is that even in the implemented things using Resources within the electronic health record We know that if you present a best practice alert that has a link to additional information that at most 10% Will actually say well, why did I get this alert the rest of them will either follow or not follow the alert? So, you know, it's it's it's that 10% where you might be able to get some substantive feedback about how to make it fit within workflow and that that we're really trying to To get at and it's it's a challenging it's a challenging group and and again I I don't want to have this dominate the whole hour of discussion because I think we'll retread a lot of ground that we've spent the last Four years talking about and my question was really a very simple one to the ISCC as opposed to but if somebody has a brilliant solution we can see the CMIOs and the patient safety folks have been some of our biggest friends at not just at Moffat, but at the other health systems we've worked with because For two reasons one they recognize the systemic nature of the problem and so it's a it's a bigger one to them Secondly, they have the tactics to achieve What we just talked about And and so it's you know, it's been a great group who'll go in there on on behalf of the physician community implement something and you know with some you know champions and stuff like that, but so I think they're you know That might be the group we need to engage with more And I think to add to that to you know My experience is that they might not necessarily click on whatever that resources within the electronic health record But they're they're very eager to use kind of the the one-page summary that they hang on their wall Or that they can put in their pocket to just tell them what is it that I do in this particular scenario And so it may be the question. I know recently it is I Thought it was a really good opportunity. So when the last ISCC meeting Bob had People go through and just present what their educational programs were and it stuck out to me I thought so gecko it which is the genetics group in Canada the way that they approach this is they have kind of three levels of Education for each Topic and I'm probably saying it's completely wrong But this is what stuck out in my head one is a one page one's like a three page and one's a lots of pages And so maybe the the the missing or the key is is looking at what is it on Clinton? And then how do we put that in a format that's usable in a one page or half a page that really just answers the one question that that clinician has as an end user And that's the approach. I'll take it my organization because I can do that but There's not somebody like me fortunately for the rest of the institutions in the United States and elsewhere That's that's doing that and so in some ways We're trying to walk that Balance of saying We anticipate that there's going to be a broader need We won't have the people on the ground to synthesize that information in most places So how can we compromise so that somebody can get an answer like because people use things like Up-to-date and and we have indeed to answer clinical questions And we know that we have a 30-second window to get them to an answer And so we're we're building off of Techniques that we know can work and the physicians do utilize when they're confronted with clinical questions But We just haven't been able to get you know the confirmation that the way we're presenting it is really The best way to do it or if we could do it better based on their and yeah And I think I think that's where the sort of partnering role for ISEC and bringing these different Expertises together so there are dissemination platforms out there medscape up-to-date things like that that we have not a systematically Looked looked at that are already out there. We don't have to build anything We have the resources we need to understand the needs of the end users and match it up with the resources and figure out How to disseminate them so you know in term and you sometimes you need a hook and so for did for this conference the hook for me What would have been a boy? You know and given a choice between two agents with equal efficacy you can have one that has a 15% Major adverse event or you can have another with a 5% major adverse event Which one do you want to choose or which path do you want to take? That's a pretty good hook So so that's that's that second thing. I want to say is is about ISEC ISEC is is participant driven I mean we provide Some administrative support limited we can't do all of the work And it really we're trying to shift it away from it being an NHG or I heavy in terms of focus So that we can encourage people to participate more and to build these things outside of you know my heavy hand on the calls and on the meetings so That's really really important is to stimulate that awareness that This is an organization that will be driven by the participants and if the participants aren't doing anything It's not going to do anything. So that's really important while I have the microphone I want to follow up on something that Howard said about Including the other professions and nurses for example, and this is another plug So Donna Messersmith and Kathy Calzone Donna Messersmith from my office and Kathy Calzone from NCI have a Summer short course. It's this year. It's four days long for nurses nurse practitioners and physician assistants and their educators And that's on the NIH campus campus the applications for participation are is still open I think through the rest of this week you can contact me or Donna Messersmith and or look on the genome gov for Short course nurses and you'll find the course. There's a link there to the application Website and I encourage you if you have people who are interested in doing that by all means do that We are also aware that one of the barriers that hasn't been talked about much to Engaging providers in terms of participating or learning how to do this in their own Things is not the knowledge or or the the the willingness to do it But not knowing actually how to put it into their workflow So if they work with an NP or a PA or something who what's the best way to sort of work This into the workflow of their particular office that works for them And there may need to be some discussion and education around that to help them become comfortable with Implementing the information that we're trying to teach them And just a just a quick follow-up to the web's web MD kind of up-to-date having worked as a writer and editor at one of those Publications previously, you know, we were kind of limited to maximum of 28 lines So it's kind of like if you we had to get like how to treat hypertension in 28 lines And so maybe that's part of it is saying we have you guys have 28 lines You know and making it kind of makes you pull out the meat of what people need to know You know following up on both what mark was saying what Bob was saying in in clinical IT when we have an Intervention that we want to do and we want to Release IT that alters a workflow We find that the best way to ensure that that gets adopted is to make sure that it will save the clinician time and I think that so one of the things that may be necessary here is to think about how Could expand the scope a little bit beyond just pharmacogenomics, but but including pharmacogenomics to providing support around a Particular type of decision that a clinician needs to make and provide enough support so that for that Transaction for that encounter you can actually save them time and that may help with adoption Yes Think it goes along with this same theme We've studied adoption a lot at our in our 1200 patient project And we went in with a hypothesis that it was going to be around this idea that people who got prior education in genomics We're going to be the earliest adopters younger Providers and it turned out not to be the case at all and the biggest factor the biggest driver was how much how many Patients the doc was seeing that day about whether they looked at the alerts or looked at the clinical decision support So I think it really echoes what a lot of people are saying is if it's in the workflow And if it can be done in a short amount of time we use the 30-second idea then usually they all adopt so I have a comment or a Question from Lynn and who had to leave earlier and that's that in use case development and She was pleading for These sites that have use cases posted that there be you know real-life cases where pharmacogenomics Made a big difference in a patient's like based on real-life Information and evidence and she was looking at some of the sites and and was finding kind of these theoretically based use cases but not you know real-life examples and so she was Compelling the groups that are developing these educational materials I think to keep that in mind because she felt that that these would be particularly compelling types of cases to include and I actually Howard to your when you said about the molecular tumor board about you know the jack one amplification isn't that cool so This is Jack to sorry Jack to write that's even cooler It goes to the kind of the opposite end of the spectrum of what Lynn was talking about which is You know I've been on molecular tumor boards is the basic science Representative where we have a patient who has nothing in their tumor genome. That's actionable But they have a really cool amplification. You know, so there's nothing actionable about it Right, but it is it is an observation that comes out of the testing that we did So, you know how to communicate that whether to communicate that at all So the first thing we say is there's nothing actionable in this patient's tumor based on these genes that were sequenced But there are some interesting molecular pathways that look like they might be dysregulated But so how do you present those kinds of cases where there isn't anything actionable? But there's interesting biology there if there's interesting biology often Often the group may come to the conclusion that it is actionable because there are The option is to Put people put someone on a therapy where there's not even a hint that it might work And so that's what we've done in the past put people on a trial because the main criteria was the trial was opened at our place at a place and the patient fit the fit the you know the organ function criteria or whatever Now at least there's some hint that that pathway is just disrupted in some way You know can they go on to that preferably on a clinical trial type format? And so it's not but we've had a number of situations several that have resulted in in our one grants where we have this accumulation of abnormalities that were not druggable That we put to the the more basic folks. They took it into the lab generated some data and They they got funded at the NIH for research purposes Partly because they were using real data and trying to solve a real problem as opposed to doing just disruption of every base and you know Try to find a problem that things so it's not but we we've had a number of situations There's there your research in clinical should not have a divide There should be a continuum, but often academic centers are not structured in that way They're structured your research or your clinical and you know don't even meet in the cafeteria Jeff So I just want to echo Lynn's request because I think that idea of telling genome stories is a is a really Important one when you know whenever I see presentations from the undiagnosed disease network It's incredibly impressive in it and it hits the patient provider It hits the family. It just is a very compelling reason to keep going and doing this kind of work so if we can tell the same stories like Angela's story and You know there's so there's both successes and failures I would say that we could tell those stories that would make it real for the average clinician and patient that doesn't understand What pharmacogenetics really means so and I think maybe we put that as part of the ignite tool Box or or someplace, but we have to put it somewhere co coincidentally Anastasia wise and John Mulvihill are presenting UDN to ISCC as we speak Well, I think there's an opportunity to with the case reports that you know while we've tended to make them sort of Static and durable materials. There would be no reason that those case reports couldn't be presented in a in a format That like the Grand Rounds or something and then have the actual case report Available as well. I think that could potentially increase the utility of invisibility of them and you not to put more work on the Institute, but You're having a webcast You know cases in genomic medicine or something like that Might be a way to get that out the you often unless you know a journal that will take case reports You don't tend to write them up because it's too much hassle this would be a venue where you'd get credit for it and From a from an oncology standpoint the American Society of Clinical Oncology has just opened up a new journal the precision oncology JCO precision oncology and Part of that is that they and a welcome case reports and the reason why is that the more case reports that are published The easier it is for an oncologist to get the drug paid for by an insurance company So there's you know added value to case reports beyond just a way forward But actually a way forward that might actually get the drug paid for So Bruce Corf is the incoming editor of the Journal of the American American No, the Americans. Oh Yeah, yeah, so anyway, one of those journals, but but I think he's But but I I think you want to start over Jeff No, but I think he he's a he's obviously a very good friend of this community and I imagine he would be Interested in least entertaining that this is a venue Is this are the what kind of what we're thinking of mark is this similar to the genome case conference series that you host out of geyser I think it's the genome first conference series as far as what we're talking about just from an educational perspective Even though it's not looking at pharmacogenomics specifically Well, I think it's just a I have a little bit of an affinity for the case reports in ISCC just because I Was involved early on with that sort of the developing of the format and the templating in that and was hoped that Again, this would be something would go out where the societies would take ownership and create cases that were relevant to them So the model could even be and Bob can tell me if you know how many of the societies have really taken this forward But out even outside the realm of PGX you could imagine that if societies have venues by which they can present case reports that if we could assist them with some of the You know relevant information for their society whether it be around pharmacogenomics or other type of genomic interventions that using a multi Media type approach with a formal case presentation the durable case report, etc. Might be of some value Yeah, the case reports have have The case studies working group created the template and those first two or three Cases and it has not been taken up widely by the others We haven't had the bandwidth to Lobby And really I think it takes sort of going to each one and saying hey, did you know this is there? Pick out the things that are most relevant to you and we'll help you write the case study where we'll get other people Geneticists to help you write that yeah yeah, I think Figuring out how to incentivize people to write those case reports and to write The the lessons learned type papers so to the the point you're making earlier I think that Lynn made about the the real use cases that people have experienced I mean, I'm often involved in conversations about should we write a paper to tell everybody like we we tried these four things and like These three failed miserably, but this one kind of worked but but in the the list of all of the things that people have to do Your data papers and your discovery papers and like the things that will go to a higher-impact journal tend to get the attention first but for the community some of those Mid-tier paper lessons learned here are the things we tried that failed and here's what kind of worked is Really meaningful for moving the field forward so thinking about how we can kind of push ourselves and our peers to Put more of those out and to realize that even though they're not going to get in to New England Journal and JAMA and Nature genetics and science They're still really important for the others in the field to know what to try what not to try or even if it failed at one institution It might work at another so another issue The question that was raised in my mind Kristen during your presentation was the certificate program So you have a curriculum developed around this certificate program. So How common are these certificate programs? How do you develop a curriculum and keep it up to date and was that that the certificate itself? Was that a demand by the end users who wanted that as something they could take away or was how was that decided? so so there are two things that we have that and I have the word certificate in them one is a Certificate certificate program. That's a 25-hour program for practicing pharmacist And it's part of the continued education model that you can award a certificate based on certain requirements And there has been a need within express me within the pharmacy profession for more education and certification Within pharmacogenomics because it is difficult for many of those frontline pharmacists So that was in response to a need and it is associated with Something that they can show, you know evidence of that. We also have the graduate certificate Which is an academic program that's nine credit hours and we're in the process right now of developing that curriculum and we really have been doing that by you think it's kind of starting with with a template and then Just sitting down and talking through with our oncologist with our different groups to kind of get input on what that looks like and It's actually we're in the middle of doing that right now It's been incredibly valuable process, but it is kind of saying what do you think that that people need to know in This area from a lot of different disciplines. I don't think that there's another program like that out there So but we're excited about that one Yeah, so Also in Florida Jeff Vance at University of Miami and something in the water He has a master's program which runs concurrently with medical school and Is a number of people who have actually come to that medical school enrolled in that medical school because of that program So it's actually a draw to the medical school In addition the the UK National Health Service the education program They had what did I say 20 million pounds or something for three years to do this provider education around genomics And one of their implementations was to create programs sort of a step-wise a program where you can step off at any point You can get a certificate or you can go on and get a master's degree that are taught at academic centers And the providers actually get time off to to actually attend those and get those certificates or degrees So there are other examples around the world for this But as far as I know everything else is in Florida Yeah, so just to clarify so the graduate certificate is you know essentially a working professional program. It's online So at UF we have a robust Working professional educational program we graduated on Friday 75 master's students in working professional master's degree programs The vast majority of those are in forensics. So So the idea is that this may evolve into a master's degree program if you know if we see the demand But that it's really tailored around something that people can do sort of from home, you know Do graduate level coursework, but from home, you know in the context of their position to advance their knowledge and skills Well, that was another another question about not having to travel So how many of these things are actually some of them are offered passively is after the fact videos and stuff are posted But how many are actually offered is sort of interactive online? Courses that people could take without having to travel to Florida unless it was a winter As far as I'm aware there aren't any online interactive programs kind of in synchronous But we are I had talked to Lenk said as she had that question We did record the conference and we are making all that content available online As much as we're able and that's kind of probably them the most that's out there right now Once we we get that as far at least as far as pharmacy is concerned Yeah, but right exactly that the graduate certificate itself like Julie described would be interactive and online And so it would be a fully online program and and actually, you know It'd be possible for someone to just take one course out of that So it wouldn't necessarily you'd have to take the whole you know the whole thing because that would meet that need and One of that one of the enhancements to to these courses even if they're sort of in person at a particular site That we think will be helpful and this has been piloted at City of Hope is to build a community of practice around The group of participants and and have that grow every time a new group comes comes through and that's primarily an online Group and different people do a different way just through a simple lifts lists serve or other methods But that has proven to to be a way to keep people engaged Over time and in continuing to keep up with what's happening Yes, I just want to mention the University of Colorado Denver does have an interactive Pharmacogenomics certificate program that they recently launched a couple years ago So in that is that a multi? Is that a multi day? Is that a sink? How does that? I don't have a ton of details on it I think it's it's it's an online For about a month. I think it runs a couple hours a week sort of a thing But it's it's synchronized you there's modules that you go through along the way and and our company is actually providing participatory Genotyping for that program so One of the things we found with our pharmacist after we had the belt doing the pharmacogenetic tests and after the training program Is they came back to us and they actually said they wanted more interaction. They wanted discussion boards They wanted to share some of their experience They want to have an opportunity to discuss some of their cases that they had so we Implemented a monthly webinar as well as part of this Yeah, and that that was another question I had about sort of follow-up. So there's you know Participants take these courses and there's usually some sort of immediate follow-up follow-up about the impact of the course But what's the longer term follow-up and engagement opportunity for these people? Because I think very much the same same thing is that people people want to continue the discussion In an interactive way and that's sometimes very Challenging to support in these kinds of approaches, but I think very important for long-term traction They want the feedback as well as to whether or not they handle a certain case Appropriately and you know what worked for them or what did not work for them and they want the discussion Yeah, and we had our participants requested that at the conference to create a group that they could continue to interact with each other So we we would have done it anyway, but they they really asked for that Mark I think one of the examples we could look to is the city of hope cancer genetics course They've done this. I don't know how many years, but it's well over ten years originally funded by grant but then has now become self-sustaining and Not only does it provide intensive? Hands-on activities both in-person and remote for the course attendees Specific to cancer genomics and cancer genomics practice, but it also provides a sustained Forum by which people can bring cases consult with other course attendees and graduates and they have an annual symposium That many of the attendees come in for refreshers and updates and so it's it's ended up being a very Robust model and if we could replicate something like that in the pharmacogenomics space. I think it'd be very interesting So in in the last five minutes here I'm wondering if each of the three speakers would Even if it's restating stuff you said in your presentation sort of sum up in a minute or so what you think are the major Educational gaps as they relate to promoting Implementation what where do you think the effort needs to go in the near-term future? for educational activities to really impact Implementation and let's just go in order. So Kristin you want to start and then Bob and then Howard First I just want to echo what mark said the city of hope That's an excellent model and one that I've really looked at in developing our programs to you But the one thing that I would take kind of my biggest soapbox passion is implementation And so we base so much of what we do within our educational programs on cases in patient cases that we you know Have that we've seen within our clinical programs And so I think that is essential is that it has it's kind of the chicken before the egg But I think that having your implementers involved your front-line clinicians involved in the educational process is so important Because that's where you're going to get that the things that people need to know that really practical piece So to me that has to be a part of it Thank you Bob. Yeah, so I think that starting at that at that target learner end and really understanding You know what is driving them to learn and what kind of information that is actionable in their clinic now and how? understanding how to do that on Across multiple specialties and on scale over time because this is you know pharmacogenomics It's just one piece of what's coming down the pipeline and we really need to understand how to do this At a large scale in the future, and so I think this is a really good good test case for that so getting that participation as well as Focusing on the Quality of the implementation of the education and that involves Partnering with education adult education specialist people who who know how to do this who have data behind their methods So forth and if we find gaps where there is no data, then we need to get that data I think those are the two biggest things Netta at a local level Trying to include the education in the things that are already happening So you know stealing a month of the he-monk rotation type of thing where they're already going to do a rotation Why not have it focused on that area? I think it's an opportunity that we haven't really exploited very much and then on a larger level I think we're focusing too much on the genome the if this meeting today was efficient therapeutic medicine Using genome as the tactic I think it would have broader appeal than genome medicine and Those of us that are here know what genome medicine is but a lot of our target audience are just trying to Practice medicine in the in the pharmacy sense of it or the medical sense of it the nursing sense of it And so I think keeping that focus I think will be valuable because that way people because that's what they're wanting to do And then we'll get stuck on the double helix part Okay, any last comments from the audience? If not, I want to thank everybody for the discussion and thank again our three speakers Terry I turn it back to you So what we're going to try to do now is kind of run through things that we've heard in the past two days and also come to some consensus at least on on those things as well as as sort of opportunities for research and Clinical informatics and a couple of other things so Mary and Simone and I have prepared a Summary and I'll just walk up there and do


Maybe go to these guys and ask them there. Hola, I will ask this guy. Yeah, it's almost like a permanent place here. Hi, I'm Lavi, and this is Oli. We are attempting a new world record to become the youngest pair to circumnavigate the globe by motorcycle. Click the subscribe button to follow our adventure around the world. See you later. Good morning world, welcome back to the channel. It's day number 36 on our around the world trip. We're here at Chris and Peppie's place here and they've got their cutie little doggy Kanya. We know Kanya, we know, we know, we know. And Chris's bike here, black beauty. Love's beauty. We just started getting ready to hit the road. Bumblebee is totally Africa ready. We cleaned it up completely with the help of Chris. We have some new adjustments here with our seats. Chris was so kind to donate us like an air seat. We have a parasol. We have a parasol to stick in this bit here. For when we're having like lunch in the desert and there's no shade, no trees. Well, parasol. So yeah, but we are about to hit the road. So let me show you where we're gonna head today. Okay, so we are here in Maracena, just outside of Granada. And we're gonna be heading with Chris and Peppie to Burmajales, which is a reservoir. And afterwards heading down the coast shh, all the way to Tarifa. So Chris and Peppie are gonna join us for a little bit.  So it's time to hit the road. All right, it's time to hit the road. And go and find the best churros place in town. I'm ready for it.  So they didn't have churros anymore, right? We missed the churros time. That was just a breakfast. But it's really nice because now we have toast with some cheese and some avocado and some tomato and some oil. Nice. So we just had breakfast and now we are on the way to the reservoir and still awesome views of the Sierra Nevada mountains. That's so beautiful here in Granada and in Maracena where we are now. The fact that you've always got this vista behind you. And the good thing is if you're really, really hot, you're just to make your way up the mountain to cool down. You won't believe the temperature at the moment. It's insane. Thirty four degrees according to the bike. Thirty four is really on the limit. We could have spent weeks and weeks with Chris and Peppie, I think, because it's just such a lovely, interesting couple. We're learning a little bit Spanish as well because she's Spanish and Chris is English, but he's a Spanish teacher and an English teacher. And he's teaching us some Spanish words and we try to communicate with Peppie. Chris has a very cool way to to teach you that conversational Spanish and really simple, easy way. So if you want any online lessons, Spanish lessons, Spanish to English, English to Spanish, we'll put a link in the description and you can check out his services there and his YouTube channel as well, the bilingual biker Chris. Yeah, because it's super cool. He's riding around with his bike and he's talking to you in English and in Spanish. So for your next trip to South America or to Spain, just watch a bunch of his videos and see how you can improve. We spotted the reservoir and the watch out is more than blue. I don't know, like, what is this color? Oh, my God, yeah, it's like a turquoise blue. Look at it. Oh, my God, it looks insane. That's really the bluest water ever. I think it must be coming from the this maybe from snowmelt or something. I mean, look at it. I don't know. That's awesome. It looks unbelievable. Yeah. And this whole landscape that we've been driving through, that Chris and Peppy have taken us through is just like these amazing winding roads through olive groves and tiny little villages and towns, very, very beautiful bit of countryside. What a nice place here. Presa de los Bermejales. Wow. Cool. Some bikes over here. Oh, yeah, let's join that. Look at this water color. Wow. I'm walking without shoes. It's a little bit painful, but it's OK. It's so nice inside the water here. So refreshing. I would love to jump in completely, but I don't really have my swimming swimming clothes on at the moment. Yeah, that was a beautiful stop at this reservoir. We had a look down at the water. This super blue water was really nice. And we met like these two really cool Italian guys traveling through Spain as well. They're driven here all the way from Italy. Yes, guys, we will see you in Italy. This area here looks like an awesome area. It's not very busy at all here. No, it looks like a really cool place to hang out. Yeah, definitely. It looks very, very cool place. So I think we're just going to drive now, find a bite to eat with Chris and Peppy, and then we're going to be hitting the road alone all the way down to Tarifa. Yeah, we have to hurry up a little bit at one point because it's a long way still to Tarifa and it is already 3.40. Oh, is it 3.40? Oh, no. 3.40, so it's already getting into the afternoon. Yes, because I don't know if we told you, but we have to catch a ferry tomorrow. We are taking the ferry to Morocco tomorrow in the afternoon. So that's super exciting. So tomorrow will be our last day in Europe. That will be the end of our European adventure and the start of our North African adventure. Yes. OK, we are heading into Alama de Granada, this beautiful town here in the valley.  But we're not sure if anything's actually open. It's like still probably siesta time and it's Sunday. So let's see what we can find. I think we're going to check here at this place and see if they're doing food. No, no, no. OK, OK. Eh, otro un paricabra. Chee. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Absolutely horrible cheese.  It's not like it at all. Ha, ha, ha. Oh, yup. Ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Take care of yourself. Ha, ha, ha, ha.  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Be safe. Yeah? And happy and everything. Ha. Love you. Bye. OK, let's hit the road. Let's hit the road. All the way to Tangia, baby. So it's 162 miles now from here to Tarifa, where we are going to be looking to camp. There should be a free camp that we've seen on Ioverlanda, which is just on the other side of Tarifa. So we're going to head 162 miles over to there, and then we're going to see whether it's possible. And that will put us very close to the ferry that we're taking tomorrow afternoon. So Morocco. We are prepared and we are coming. So we're heading on the Alta Via now. And this one will take us down to Malaga, and then we're going to continue down the coast from Malaga all the way to Tarifa. We're just having a bit of a break at a petrol station here on the Alta Via, but we have another important announcement to make. We have just hit 3,000 miles. It's near 7 o'clock, and we have just caught sight of Malaga. Malaga la ua, ua, ua, ua. So yeah, it starts to get very built up down there, and the ocean is just in front. I want to see the ocean. Yeah, at the moment we still can't see it very much. But the road we're going to join up with in a minute is going to take us all the way down the coast, so we should have plenty of ocean views on the way. Nice. Hit the ocean highway. Look at that. Beautiful beach here. Feels like riding on the beach. Yeah, the highway is literally on the ocean's edge. That's a nice view as you drive down the Alta Via. That's lovely. I can smell the ocean breeze. And there's a nice cool wind coming from it as well. Yes, amazing. We've still got just under 80 miles to go until we get to Tarifa. But yeah, it's crazy when you get past Malaga how much the coast changes. There's just so many more resorts, hotels, attractions, villas, palm trees. I mean, the whole coast just changes. So we just passed Marvella, and it's so built up in this area. There's just huge apartment blocks and big resorts, five-star resorts and casinos and villas all up on the hill. It's like a completely different world from when we were like in this nice little countryside coming down. This is just like, woo, totally different. Yeah, it's crazy. Hotel after hotel after hotel. This is the Costa del Sol for you. Look at that. Wow. I mean, if you've got money and you want to come down to the beach and be in a nice resort, then this is the place for us. We've got our trusty tent on the back. We just got to find a nice spot to pitch it. Oh, this is like some tables and chairs here. Just need a place to park. So we just stopped for dinner just outside of the petrol station. And the sun has already gone behind the mountain. It's 10 to 9 already. So we decided to look on Ioverlanda for a place which was a little bit closer because it was going to take us probably another hour to reach the camping area on the other side of Tarifa. So instead we've routed to another place on Ioverlanda, which is a beach camp that we found, which is only 14 miles away. Oh, there's the sun again. Hello. So we're going to head to this beach camp and see how it is because, yeah, we don't have a lot of daylight left. And it's bedtime soon. Maybe go to these guys and ask them there. Which guys? These guys there. Oh, I can do. Yeah, they look like they're like living here, maybe. Yeah, it looks like a bit. Hola. I will ask this guy. Okay. Yeah, it's almost like a permanent place here. Hola. Hello. Hola. Hola. I've been at this free camp. Normally pitching a tent is not allowed, but we just ask some guys around here and they say, no worry for one night. Just pitch up a tent, leave tomorrow. It's not a big deal. It's not a big problem. So we're just going to do this. Yeah, and as long as none of the other people here come over, have a problem with that, then hopefully we'll be okay. Okay for tonight. Yes. So let's pitch up. Set up our tent here. Bumblebee literally right next to us chained to the tent. We are just off the beach here. We've got the moon rising just over there. We pitched the tent in sort of the corner of this little area. So we were super lucky to find actually a place before it got dark. We just managed to set up before it's getting dark, like really dark. Yeah, I'm really grateful. I'm really, really grateful. Thankful that we found this place here. It's quite flat as well. So I think we will have a good night. So we've got another about half an hour, 45 minutes, maybe an hour to get to Tarifa, which is where we're taking the ferry tomorrow. It's not too bad because we're taking the ferry at 2.45 in the afternoon. So plenty of time, but we're still going to wake up early, get packed up, get on the road and get down to Tarifa tomorrow. So we did about 170 miles today, but most of it after like 5pm. So it was quite an evening ride for us. But it was beautiful with the sunset and the ocean and the coast road. So it was beautiful even though we did have to go, go, go, trying to get down here. It was still a really nice ride. So that's it from us today. We hope you enjoyed the episode. If so, please give us some thumbs up, subscribe to the channel, share with your friends and comment below. We will see you next time.


Thus, then, tonight, Mrs. Jackie Cooper, as star of The Clock and the Rope, a defense play produced, edited, and directed by William Spears. Would you like to hear the old story about the innocent man facing execution and his last-minute attempts to get a pardon, how it feels when he doesn't get it? Well, I can tell you all about it, because that's my story. There's a couple of different twists to it, of course, and there always are. For one thing, it happened to me, and now I keep away from you. I keep away from cities and buildings. Buildings with the cells they call rooms and the doors that don't always open. I never button my collar. You'll find out why. I earn my living as a guide for hunting parties. Me, who couldn't find my way across the city park without asking a cop for directions. I never sleep endure. I can't. And I can't stand clocks. Most of all, I can't stand clocks. It happened so fast. I told him it wasn't murder. It was self-defense, involuntary self-defense.  But it didn't work out that way, of course. That's the other different twist I told you about. They convicted me. They sentenced me to be hanged. And they hanged me. I was a night man. Saw a little gas through the rough strip down for some repairs that had to be done the next day. Take care of any transient overnight parking. Then this girl started dropping in for gas every other night or so, late. I liked her style, but I was too shy to say anything, and I guess she figured it.   As if she was getting a kick out of the way I acted. Then one night, instead of pulling away when she'd paid me, she spoke. Oh, come on. Open up. What? Say something. I've been here 20 times. You can say a word or two times. Hello, or at the nice night. Well, I didn't know that you wanted me to.  I didn't look like I didn't want you to, did I? Or don't I know my looks anymore? Oh, sure. I thought you... Tell me, did I hear somebody call you home the other night? I guess you did. My name is Henry. Henry Gilford. Does your girl call you home? Or haven't you got a girl? No, steady girl. That's what you mean. What would you be doing with a steady girl working here every night? Oh, I'd get one night off, go to a dance or something. Oh, sure. Sure, I'd... Say, you like to dance? I have some. Well, uh, I'm off tomorrow night. You ever go to the Arcadia? They've got a good band there. I forget who it is this week. Oh, I'm sorry. Tomorrow night isn't my night off. Oh. But, uh, I'll get off at midnight tomorrow night. You see the Arcadia closes at midnight. All the big dance places close at midnight. Well, you don't have to have a big play, do you? Uh, no. Oh, no. No, there's the All In out on Task Scott Avenue. They run late and have a pretty good little band and the boots and everything. That would be fine. Well, I could pick you up at your job. No, no, I, um, I'm way up the other end of town and I have to drive my car back anyway. Suppose I need to at the hour. I'll be there a little after midnight. I'll be there. Okay, see ya. Well, say, what's your name? Yucca Lamai. Goodbye. That next night around 11.30, I caught the trolley going out along Task Scott Avenue. The Mortarman was old Steve Hoffman. He had known me since I was a kid and he'd rid me about my new gray suit especially by wanting to get off at the All In. I said I was stepping out in class company. We got there in about 20 minutes and I started up the driveway kind of thrilled at the idea of a midnight date. I was just starting up the steps to the end when I heard voices coming from a grove of trees to one side. Nobody, I tell ya. Don't give me that stuff. I followed you all the way out there. Who you meet? Nobody. Okay, but giving me that, you'll get sick. Ow! Back here. Hey, hey, what's this? Oh, this is the guy you're gonna meet. I'm Swell. I'll take care of both of you now. Hey, what's going on anyway? Ow! What did you hit him for, Joe? He's got nothing to do with it. Get up and run. That guy's crazy. Crazy? Well, then call somebody. No, no. You get out of here. Now run. You want more, huh? Well, I got it right here for you. Get the block. Run, Hank! No, you don't. Hey, now let go. No, you don't. You don't grab this. Well, I did it, I guess. Hey, who? Who is he? He would have done worse than you. We have to go together. Well, I didn't know you had a steady follow. I thought when we made our date, you... You didn't ask me. Besides, we were breaking up. He had no right here to fear. Well, what do we do now? Mean about him? I'll take care of him. You mean leave him here with you? Well, he'll... Please, go. There'll be more trouble for you, too. Go ahead. I'm going to leave you right away, too. He'll be all right. But he wasn't all right. He was dead. I knew about it hardly two hours later. No, she didn't come and tell me. The police came and got him. And they didn't learn about me from her either. They didn't know anything about her. And they actually didn't want to know. Why did you walk home?  Why didn't you ride back? Well, I just wanted to think, that's all. Sure. Because you weren't thinking about how maybe the motorman wouldn't remember taking you out there if you didn't ride back. No, why would I do that? I've known old Steve Hoffman all my life. Is that how you found out? You're not very smart. I'm not trying to be smart. Okay. So you hit him in self-defense to say the girl. Now, what's her name? Her name? I don't see it. I never got it. She didn't tell me. You had a date with a girl and you didn't even know what her name was. Well, yes. I asked her. I've seen her often, but she didn't tell me. Are you sure there was a girl? Of course. Who would I have the date with? Maybe just with the guy you killed. I never met him before. I don't even know him. You just don't know anything, do you? Well, I'll ask you a very simple question. I'm sure you can answer this one. I'll try. How much money did you take off the man you murdered? How much? Yeah, how much? And where is it? His pockets were turned inside out. You went from self-defense to help yourself. They pushed me around some after that. They'd take me to court and then back to myself. Half the time, I didn't know what was going on. They gave me a lawyer, Mr. Hall, Bailey Hall. He'd do the talking. He kept asking for things like reduced bail, time for further investigation, his continuances to find witnesses, just sort of stalling all the time. I don't know why. I told him I didn't have the money for any bail. And witnesses. And there's only one I wanted, that girl. But he kept on, always trying to hold up things. Then one day he told me I'd been indicted. I knew it wasn't her. It meant I had to go on a trial for murder. That's bad, boy, bad. I've done all I could to delay indictment and trial and I hope there's something to turn up, but we're in for now. And we should give me something more to work on. What do you mean? This girl, you can't even name. I can't go into court with just that. The police will certainly never was a girl. There's no trace of her anywhere. Well, maybe she'll show up. Show up, my boy, you've got a lot to learn. Mr. Hall, that's all I know. I can't help it. Thank God you never mentioned the girl and just claimed self-defense for a fight. It's a girl thing that's so bad it makes your whole defense fooling. Boy, if you made up a girl, why didn't you make up a name? Brooke, I've been all through that with the police. Now, if you're going to talk that way too, maybe we better forget the whole thing. Maybe they'll give me another attorney or none at all for right here. Easy, boy, easy. I'm sorry I popped off, but it isn't a new attorney you need. It's a new story. That's right. Euford wrote out to be in that night in my trolley. It was on the 4th or the 5th. Uh, face the jury, please, and talk louder. Oh, louder. I say... I say, uh, I took Euford to the inn that night. It was about 10 after midnight. He got out and started for the inn. Did you notice anyone else around? Any girl, for instance? A girl? No. Nobody else. That'll be all, thank you. The defense may have the witness. As soon as we started to talk to Euford, he confessed to striking the blows. He talked about doing it in self-defense and about a girl he had a date with who witnessed the fight. Have you been able to trace this girl whose existence is claimed by the defendant? No. No trace of her at all? No, sir. No trace ever at all. And then we come to the conclusion and then we come to the actual evidence, gentlemen of the jury. Where do we get the evidence? From the witnesses. And who is the state principal witness? None other than the defendant himself. But the defendant can prove his story. He has a witness. The girl who saw it all. The girl he paid for my bad business. Would any girl be so heartless as to leave such a benefactor in the lurch when just a word would save him? Why doesn't he appear? Why isn't he found? No. There is no trace of her. Not even a small-sized note. In other words, she is behaving exactly as you would expect someone to behave who is not real, but just a figment of a desperate man's imagination. The defendant will rise. Gentlemen of the jury, have you reached the verdict? We have. What is your verdict? We, the jury, find the defendant Henry Guilford guilty of charge of murder in the first degree. I... Yes. To work their days, chipped in some money. I had an uncle in West Virginia who sent Mr. Hall $50 in cash and a promissory note for another $50. And I guess Mr. Hall put up the money himself for his sentence. Anyway, he kept appealing the case all the way up to the state supreme court. But it didn't do any good. Kept coming back to the original decision to sustain Mr. Hall's death. All this time, the court had kept changing a date. The date I was supposed to be hanged. Now all of a sudden, I knew there weren't going to be any more changes. The last date set was this. I think I started to suffocate right then. There was something growing in my throat that wouldn't let me breathe. The evening of the next day, McGill, the deputy warden, came into my cell with a couple of guards. He told me I was moving. I knew where. It was down on the main floor. A row of only three cells. It was the last stop. Death's throat. They have a team of two guards who live right in the cell with you the last few days.  Again, or else they just want to make sure you don't go ahead and carry out the sentence on yourself. Anyway, whatever it was, I was grateful. Because now, I was lonely. I was afraid. Not afraid like a man, but afraid the way a child is afraid. I was going someplace. The last place. And I was going alone. The thing you feel most the last hours is the time. The clock. Remembering how often you wish it would hurry so you could get off work, go out of school, or see your girl, or go fishing.  Outside, you know they're watching the clock too. Not like you are, but they're watching it. All the usual people concerned with an execution, doing the usual things. Their lawyer, the warden, the governor maybe, newspaper man, the guards, the executioner. I know what every one of them was doing as they watched the clock that night. Now, I'll never forget it. Clocks all over the state.  I ought to get some sleep, warden. It's only five hours away. Yes, I know, Major. I wish I could lose this pain in my chest. I think I'll lie down here on the couch for a little while. Yes, do that. When shall I call you, warden? Oh, make it an hour beforehand. Five a.m. This is Bailey Hall. Yes, I'm guilty. You're who? You're the... Well, where have you been all this time? What? Hey, look, you're not just some crook this afternoon. I know, I know what's for sick this morning. Where are you? All right, wait for me. I'll be right down. We've got about two hours. Take my reputation, my governor. This is the girl. At least it serves a stay of execution. It's true, sir. I swear it's true. I've been in the East. I just haven't heard about it till tonight, but it's just as he said it was. And the money that was taken out of the dead man's pocket? I took it. I needed it, and I had to be right to it. He's been my husband. Very well. Richard. Yes, governor? Type out a stay of execution on the Guildford case for three weeks. Bring it in and out, sign it, and you can take it down. All right. You'd better phone the warden to make sure, though, governor. That boy's only got about a half hour left. Uh, warden's office. Yes, this is warden Barnes. Huh? Oh, yes, governor. Young Guildford? Oh, you don't say so. Why, that's splendid, governor. Splendid. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'll let them know right away. Yes, sir. Oh, McGill. McGill. Great. Jack, come here quick. What's the matter? Let me grab him to the warden. Help me get him up on the couch. Like a stroke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Call the doctor, will you? Sure. Hey, the phone's off the hub, mind that. Call the doctor. Yeah, must have been a strain of his execution. I think he kind of liked the kid. Yeah, five-thirty. And I'll have to take over for the execution. Gentlemen, gentlemen, now ten minutes to six. In a few moments you will be admitted to the ground floor of Lockhouse A. The scaffold has been erected and where the execution, which you are to witness as newspaper men and members of the medical profession, will take place. You'll find rows of benches. Please take your seats quietly and any of the rows except the first. It has been reserved for members of the medical examining committee. We ask you to cooperate with us in our duties and to respect the solemnity of the occasion by moving quietly, refraining from any loud conversations in the moment you enter until you leave. That's all. Thank you. The minister was reading from the Bible when I knew at this time they were coming for me. This was it then. There was a group of guards. The deputy warden was with them. They opened my cell door. One of the guards came straight up to me. He was carrying a leather strap with a big buckle on it. I stood up. I felt them strapping my arms behind me. The minister stopped reading for a moment to say something. We'll go now. I started to say something to the deputy, but he nodded his head at the men and we started to move. The two guards who had been in the cell with me stood back. One of them reached over to me and put his hand on my shoulder for a second. I tried to say goodbye. I walked and realized I couldn't breathe very deeply though I wanted to. Just short breaths were all I could take. The deputy turned around and looked at me. He seemed nervous. That bothered me. I wish he wasn't so nervous. When we got to a door in the corner, through that, then another door. That was already open. I walked through. I was in a room full of men. But my eyes went to something else. There were the steps just ahead of me. Untainted wooden steps. They led up to a platform. And from above that, there, up there was... I saw the rope move me into position. The men in the room below me now, they were looking up. There was a movement among them. One of them had fainted, fell off the bench and landed hard. It was like in a dream. I wondered if he had hurt himself. Then I felt something over my head. And I knew the rope was being adjusted.  He had a hood. He lifted it and it came down over my head. Somewhere inside of me screamed again, but my lips were closed. And I was saying to myself, hurry, hurry, hurry! Don't you know better than to ring the phone now, Gilbert's on the scaffolding. What? Are you sure? Crap, it sprung! McGill! McGill, stop! There's a pardon! Stop this! Talk about the neck being broken and the death coming instantly. No, not always. Death doesn't come for a long time. For some men, it's nearly 20 minutes. For others, it may be less. But never under 12 minutes before the heart stops. You can check on that. Me? I was up only a few seconds. They cut me down and the doctors worked on me right on the wheel stretcher that was waiting to carry my body out. No, I didn't lose consciousness. I sometimes wish I had. I sometimes wish I had gone then instead of being brought back to remember every bit of those last hours. There was a new trial after I was on my feet again. I don't know what was said. I was free. I saw the girl, Judy. I know her name now and I thank her. Neither one of us knew what to say after that, so she just went. Yes, and I never sleep indoors. I never button my collar. I don't like building, any building. It drops stone and steel and holds you in. I want to be out here where I can see the sky anytime I open my eyes. And I open them often. I think too much when they're closed. I hear the clock. The clock. The clock.


Moving on, in this part, we'll figure out how all the assets which we had created for the DAS is being reused for the SaaS business of ZOTAP. So one of the foundational difference of the SaaS business is ZOTAP started managing first-party data assets in the sense this is going to be a managed service provided by ZOTAP, where the first-party data is brought into the cloud platform of ZOTAP. Whereas in third-party, so whereas in the DAS business, it was exclusively the third-party data. So a couple of changes when you talk about SaaS is the first thing which comes into mind is the tenancy. How the tenancy and what are the additional attributes which needs to be managed. And this is like what I have this third here is the various angles on which you need to think through when you are moving to a SaaS platform. So one is the organizational language for once you say SaaS, you need to have some sort of organization concept or a company concept in the sense you each of the organization which is coming into the platform has its own space sort of. So as a SaaS platform, which is a data driven application, you could bring in say a telco organization, retail organization, CPG organization, whatever. So even a finance organization. So that context goes in. Second is with the organization, there is a vertical. So vertical is a little higher level in terms of what are the categories of the organization which you are going to serve into. And with that vertical, the additional complexity that comes in is the regulation. Say for example, a regulation for a pin type might be different from a telco. So that is some context which we need to be aware of when we are working for all the privacy semantics. This is again, we need to again cross-position everything with the data protection bill. If it's a people-centric data, there are commonalities across all these. But since the data protection bill is also talking about the non-personal data, so this is also going to throw in additional complex space. Then moving in the data domain itself changes. It's more declarative. The quality measurement or the data profiling of certain retail data or e-commerce data is going to be fundamentally different from my insurance technology data. And the security is again based on the top two dimensions, the organization, the vertical, there are going to be changes. The lifecycle can be again dictated by the customers. One customer will say, probably you can retain your data for 365 days. Another customer will come and say, no, just 90 days of retention. And that also has an implication of the kind of data which he brings in. So he can have various kinds of data. Say even the customer data, he could bring a customer profile data and identity data. An identity, he could have a shorter TTL of 30 days. And for the profile data, he could have a longer TTL of 360 days. So that is why the lifecycle changes. Processing is pretty obvious. Storage, any SaaS, the storage that changes in terms of how you arrange and manage the data. And the final thing is the metadata which has a semblance to the catalog which we talked about in the previous sessions is also going to have a change here. And the other items which is going to change is, say when we were in task business, primarily our application was towards the ad tech in terms of the data outflow or whatever insights you derive from the data was mainly towards ad tech ecosystem. But once we moved into science, what happened is we have to also solve for analytics use case for our customer. We had to come up with additional derivation use case. So the MLA based derivation became much more complex. Then instead of just the ad tech as a domain, we also had to serve for the marketing domain. And ad tech is a subset of your marketing asks in terms of how many operators marketing domain. Then personalization is again a subset of marketing. But the reason I have explicitly mentioned personalization is personalization is generally more like a real time use case. So whereas bulk of the ad tech and the analytics use case could be driven by batch mode of computation. So there is a computational difference. So these applications or the usage of the data brings in additional context into how you are building your certain things. Say the consent filter, which was done as a batch system. Probably it was a library before, but now you may need to build on a lookup based system, which can serve a personalization use case in real time. And the other implication is the additional application usage context has a direct implication of how you have consented collected consent and the preference from the customer that was that we saw in the past in the past sessions. So these are the additional things from the application or usage context. Then the last thing is anyone building a SaaS platform will be aware of. I'm just putting in terms of how you architect the platform. Say if you're going with a shared everything or a shared nothing, architecture has a big say in terms of how you're going to manage your data assets. And in ZOTAP, at least it's a hybrid mode. So that's why I put the shared more stateless control plane. You have the control plane where the data and flight just come through for some processing and the actual storage and all the layers is in a more of a shared nothing style of architecture. So that is more like a hybrid mode of architecture, which is being followed. What this entails is the catalog we talked about in a couple of slides before is going to be on steroids. So this is a very, very, very foundational stage. And as I mentioned, there are many specialist companies which are coming here to solve these problems. So what I have shown here is a graphic representation of what all potentially could go into the catalog. This is also based on the evolution which I showed in terms of data catalog. It need not be a single data model that depends on how your domain functions. Say if you are going with a data mesh kind of architecture, the modeling here might be a little different in terms of how you make these kind of connections between each of the entities. So if you think about it, my question is which user, from which location, from which org has access to a data set in a particular, from a particular source. So you could, it's like a combinatorial problem here. So you are looking at all these core entities. So what I'm mentioning here is the ad tech is a usage context, the user is actual user. So he carries access context. Then there is a governance context in the sense what is the rule and who has set it. There is a ownership context. Then if you come on the left hand side, there is a schema context. So this whole thing comes into play in your catalog. So this is more like a reference model in terms of how the complexity of the catalog evolves. So this is something data intensive SaaS company. Say you are creating data platform of thoughts for any of your end customers, how that morphs. This is just a representation of that. And this is happening in our company as well as we see. Other changes say from a SaaS reusability perspective, one of the thing is if you are behind the scenes SaaS platform, possibly you may need to have some integration with content management platform. The CMP there is a content, sorry, it's a constant management platform. So there are many platforms and a couple of them are very mature in Europe. You have one trust, which is one of the leader. Then you have user centrics, Didome and bulk of these platforms, many of these platforms. So they help in collecting consents and digitizing it. And this is mainly from the digital assets of the customer. So the website, app and all these things, you could go create your own preferences, create your own grammar, you can create your consent. Second thing is once a consent is being collected by the CMPs, you also need to have integration capabilities, both from a server to server perspective is what I have told S2S. Because if you remember consent collection is one pillar, then you need to master it or manage it. Then you need to also orchestrate it for all your downstream systems. So you have three things to do with the consent. CMP will primarily solve the collection path. The S2S path is the feeder systems for downstream to get in concern from various legacy systems as well and get it into a common platform. Then we also have a SDK mode where say, if you use the SDK on your websites and apps, you could actually use the data layer behind the scenes in the front end and actually push the content directly to your app for it to do the downstream activities of mastering and orchestration. Then the orchestration of the consent, because you have created a unified consent view, that has to be fanned out. So primarily orchestration is nothing, but you are kind of taking the data and making it available in a more like there are two manners, more like orchestrated manner on a choreographic manner in terms of all other pipelines. And these pipelines need not be exclusive to your platform. Downstream customer systems, which are not readily integratable with the platform also needs this consent information. So this becomes like a fan out kind of use case, the consent knowledge being fanned over the various customer systems. Then the consent master object, which is constructed starts having the purpose and the IDs apply to it. So in the past, when we were running DAS, primarily it was a yes-no kind of parameter where we could use data partner-based consent and say data partner yes-no and remove it only based on the IDs. And if it's a global consent, just remove it. But here, since we are talking about this application or the usage context, the purpose and the IDs of each of the purpose becomes a core entity of the mastered object as well. So the consent object itself becomes much more expanded than how it would operate in the data as a service platform. Then comes the changes for the infra security and validations. One thing is, it depends on how you architect SAS, but the typical, I would say safer way is to start looking at network perimeter security as well because you want to have minimal blast radius because you're starting to engage with real first party data of the customers. So that is a concept in security called minimizing the blast radius in terms of say some intruder has access to specific areas in your network. By segregation of the parameters, he's not able to get into the other network where the other sensitive data is available. The access control itself became a little more attribute based access control. If you remember, we were talking about in the catalog on steroids, we just touched upon this aspect as well. So the location becomes attribute from which location he's coming, how much time he needs to have access control. So these all becomes attribute of the access control itself in terms of how he's going to access the data. You need to invest in key management mechanics, secure key management mechanics, because you are going to integrate with many of the customer systems, in which case you could have many AA keys which are authenticating themselves and operating themselves for various integrations. So the key management becomes a little more critical than if you're operating a singular task platform. Then one of the major changes is whenever you go with first party data collection, you are bound to get PII or personally identifiable information in the raw format. So again, we applied the minimum blast radius principle here where raw PII has no human access within the platform or within our interface UI interface. The only places where raw PII is accessed is via programmatic access, via deployed applications within the system. And of course, there is a layered separation of where the application is having microservice, that network and how the core data network is going to exchange with each other. So there are multiple provisions there, but raw PII management becomes essential and critical as well when you're doing a SAS. Then if you remember in the DAS, we were accepting hashed email and phone number in say MD5, SHA1 and all these formats, but here we had to become much more stricter. We have to be adherent to the latest and greatest recommendations from the security community, cybersecurity community. So SHA-256 is the minimum requirement. So I put as only SHA-26. Of course, we are happy to get a SHA-512 LMS, but the minimal is SHA-256 in terms of any hashing requirements which comes into the platform. So you have to, I would say, invest your technology bits to achieve all this as well. Though these come under infra and security, if you think about auto scaling or a system which has to be more self-serve, you need to actually have programmatic or technology investments to achieve all of these things. This is more like the certifications which has helped us and helped us get a good standing with the customers saying, okay, the data is safe and we have a certain good level of standards. If you notice, there are some certifications like HIPAA because we don't do healthcare data in our company. So given the scope of what we operate on, the ISO 27000 series, I've just listed all the sub items in there. BSA, CSA, BSI, CSA-START, that is a British Institute, a CSA-START. Then SOC2, of course SOC2 is something seen as a, it's essential going forward for anyone who's running an independent audit on their process and data assets and controls. E-ProVC-CLIS is something which comes from you. That is mainly, it enhances your posturing towards GDPR compliance as well. There are a couple of other certifications which I have missed out because it was very domain specific for us, but you have to take your vertical context as well as the data protection bill context and look at these certifications which are applicable for the company. Currently, we are investing on a couple of advanced technologies over the last two years. The PECT as it's friendly called Provisy Enhancing Techniques or Technologies have seen a good growth and there was a efficiency issue in the past in terms of how these enhancing technologies work because they were prohibitively costly in some cases and many were under research, but now they are getting commercialized. So ZOTAP is also investing on them on the PET techniques and the second thing is we are looking at more AML-driven semantics for the data profiling as well. Say suppose a very simple use case, suppose there is a schema and the schema is not getting adhered to and not adhered to is a very simple scenario, but say the schema was not supposed to push in a PIA in that particular data bucket, but inadvertently some customer system had pushed the PIA, how do we prevent it or how do we raise alert and immediately delete the data and raise alert to the customer that this is happening and I'm going to block this data from coming into my system. So these are a couple of things which I would say are more like a value add service from an end customer perspective, but if you think from audit and compliance perspective, it can remove lots of headache in terms of how you manage your data. And the third thing is there has been a framework called linden.org out of EU. By far we have found that is, so if you look at cybersecurity, there is a security threat modeling framework, same for physical security as well. You know what is the security threats and you can model the threats and you can look at the various activities. From there you have a bunch of activities in terms of is that threat applicable to you? How do you mitigate the threat? So like that linden has provided a privacy threat framework. So a simple example is how reidentifiable a data asset is, even though a data asset may not have direct identifiers, you have a quasi identifiers in it. When you combine three data assets with quasi identifiers, probably linking it to a real world person becomes, the probability to becomes almost close to 100. So these are kind of a privacy threat framework which linden has created and that can serve as a, that serves as a nice model to look at our data assets and figure out what is a privacy threat. And once you figure out the threat, it is same like security. So you have security, you have the security mitigation controls and automatic mitigation, yay mitigation, whatever. So we also looking at, okay, once we have a privacy threat, can we automatically mitigate it so that our customer feels that, okay, if the data pipeline is handled by this particular company, I can be rest assured the privacy threats will be mitigated for all the downstream use cases. So consent is one aspect of it in terms of the orchestration mechanism we are achieving it, but privacy is the other aspect, which enhances the standing to say the data protection officer or data impact assessment report and all these things. Then second thing is, if largely bunch of these data technologies has, as I mentioned in one of the introduction slides, you have the producer, it could be the product data engineering guys or the end customer which is being collected, the data. Second thing is the business user. Now with all these regulations, you have this key entity called the data protection officer which is coming in between. And he has a very huge responsibility on his shoulder in terms of mitigating all these risks. And in current world, he really doesn't have a clear tool. The tooling is not mature. So that is another development area which we are looking at in terms of what we could give for the data protection officer himself to do stuff. Then NISD is another privacy framework. It is not a threat modeling framework. It is a framework. It talks a lot about privacy by design and privacy by default and general recommendations to achieve it. And I would say we found it to be a really enriching framework to work with our own development efforts at this point in time. Then moving on, this is the last part in terms of where this is more from a ZOTAP lens. Suppose say ZOTAP has to comply to the PDP. I have again mentioned as PDP, the data protection bill. Of course, data protection bill hasn't been in the final format yet. It is still under bit of scrutiny and couple of things are going on. But with the current format, whatever it is, we were just checking how easy for us it is for us to comply. Data sovereignty and all these are already taken care of because as I mentioned, we don't actually do any cross border data transfer. None of our use case demands it. So, those are all a couple of, just an example of how our lens is bit different from any of the companies. Largely, this is a deja vu of what is a slide we had put in GDPR. So, it's a government of India bill. Again, it's going to have the org effect and it talks about all the aspects which is there in GDPR. Only thing is there is some language change of a data controller. You have a data fiduciary and couple of other things I haven't mentioned is there are some dedicated authorities as well. You have someone like a Consent Manager, you have an independent auditor, you have Appalachia authority. So, you have a couple of designated roles or defined roles, additional roles. So, GDPR as far as I remember did not exactly define a people persona-based role, whereas data production bill is doing that as well. So, this slide was just to represent the GDPR bill and data production bill from a ZOTAP lens how it looks like. So, more or less I would say 90% looks same in terms of where we have effect. Now, coming to where there might be additional investment. One is, I have just called out in the latest version, the 2021 version, they have taken the NPD Non-Personal Data Protection Bill and merged it with the Data Protection Bill, which was mainly the personal data protection in the past. So, that is a new area and we are watching in terms of what are the changes that is bringing into the system. Coming to the previous personal data alone, if you take off the scope of non-personal data, if you look at why they are personal data, one thing which changes the sensitive data management, the catalog is a bit different. I would say there are some special additional categories of sensitive data which data protection bill is defining and we have to adjust to that. Second is, there is a concern manager entity. So, we are looking at what are the artifacts he might need if he has to come and check the data fiduciary. So, there is an additional role. So, you have a concern management, largely concern management more or less the language is same, but what are the artifacts which might be needed for the concern manager that might be different and preferences there are some difference as well. PA management largely looks the same, user information, the right to forgotten has some level of additional elaboration in terms of right to restrict disclosure. So, that is one area we are looking at in terms of how exactly it changes and what is needed for that. Access management more or less looks changed. Auditing, as I mentioned, the primary changes you have an entity called the independent auditor, not entity or persona called independent auditor. So, we are looking at what are the changes required for that. The minimum cohort size, TTL, these are all internal implementations of achieving. So, largely not much of a change there. Ashing an encryption, again not much of a change and one time requirement anyway all the company has to go through in terms of the data cleanup to achieve compliance with their existing data assets. So, this is largely in terms of how the changes of data production bill if we could look at from a personal data perspective against GDPR, that is what we had listed here. Again, this is a slide which I have released from the initial part to showcase where all changes are happening. Thank you. That is largely what I wanted to cover in terms of this privacy mode fellowship program. Thanks Hasgeek for instituting this brilliant program and I believe this is going to really help the community and it is going to give a perspective for the overall community which is working on any data intensive business to look at what are the impacts and be prepared earlier to have to face the bill right whenever it comes. Of course, they are going to give some 24 months implication period but largely what Hasgeek community is trying to bring out as a knowledge as a prerequisite and stuff like that is going to be really helpful and thank you for having me as part of the fellowship program and hopefully I was able to give some guidance or some input into how companies can look at this particular data production bill. Thank you.


Welcome to the channel. This is reliable Rudy in this video I'm going to update you guys on what videos to expect going into the future. We did get a viewer request for Walt Disney Company Thank you Matt for the viewer request. I really appreciate that. We haven't gotten too many requests Now I hope you guys know that you can drop any taker in the comments And I will prioritize those videos over any other videos and make sure I get those videos out for you guys So feel free to leave any tickers in the comments, and I will make sure I do videos on that So thank you Matt for the viewer request. I will make sure I don't know if I'll have a First video out on Disney tonight, but expect the entire series out To be out tomorrow. Now. I know they posted earnings today when I seen the request I pulled up the stock briefly and seen that it was up decently after hours I have not looked at that earnings report But earlier in the year, I think it was sometime around June I did do a little analysis on Disney So I'm curious to see if there's anything in that earnings report that has changed my initial outlook of the company But ultimately I didn't end up buying any shares, you know a lot of stuff was down I was being a little bit more greedy if I'm being honest with you guys But I never did pull the trigger on Disney. So I'm excited to make videos over Disney stock Now looking forward past that we're going to go into the chat and pick out one of these video requests in the everything money software and Expect videos on this company if I don't get another review request viewer request expect a video on Let's pick out a stock here So I see Dell Dell has three upvotes could do Dell a lot of people have heard of Dell British American tobacco BTI Zim Lockheed Martin edu VVV net What do we got down here Nothing BTI we got another BTI. We got a BTI right here. We got a fourth BTI. Okay Yeah, what's um if we got four different requests for BTI Expect a video series on BTI following the Disney set of videos And yeah, that is all I wanted to do. I wanted to update you guys on what videos to expect I hope you guys enjoy the content and we will see you on the next video


because in this city 200,000 people are malnourishing themselves all right guys welcome back to the channel if you knew my name is bobby guys today we're gonna take a closer look at israel is commonly known as the vegan capital of this world let's check it out I eat meat good for you but I have just arrived to a place where I don't need it all right cut straight away there is no place on earth where you do not need meat anatomically physiologically you need meat to survive and thrive so it doesn't matter if you pick and choose another location on this planet your physiology won't change israel it's the city that is considered the vegan capital of the world because in this city 200,000 people are malnourishing themselves vegan i am a vegan okay did you see one healthy person there was there one radiant vibrant person i don't think so it's the highest percentage in the world of vegans which means in this city there are hundreds of restaurants that use no eggs no meat i hate this upbeat music drives me crazy no milk no animals just plants and i'm not exaggerating when i say that it's delicious you like it nice you can't even speak that's how much you love this instead of chicken they eat mushroom all right instead of chicken they eat mushroom that is great why do you do that because it mimics the texture of chicken i understand i've been there i've been a vegan for four years however if you look into the nutritional profile of the mushroom you cannot compare it to chicken there are no b vitamins in the mushroom there is no biologically available protein in mushrooms either and of course you don't have any healthy fats no omega threes nothing him mushrooms mushrooms are great for other purposes if you want to know the secret of b you will come with us beef arctic chokes plastic so you replace beef by arctic chokes again you don't need to be a doctor or a nutritionist to understand that an arctic shock can never give you the nutritional profile of beef arctic chokes milk coconuts yeah all over again just because we call it coconut milk doesn't make it milk try raising a baby on coconut milk it will die that tells you everything you need to know about the so called milk and meat is from mushroom and yeah mushrooms again is burger is vegan congrats for people don't hate me i think they do they just made so much delicious vegan food that you don't even need to eat meat what is this video about i don't get it some sort of vegan advertisement and what do they appeal to again it's delicious your taste buds right as long as it's delicious you're gonna be perfectly fine taste just like meat hence healthy just like meat absolute bullshit stop confusing your taste buds this won't deliver any nutrition you're missing creatin canis and cholesterol b12 b6 vitamin d3 and whatnot just because it's delicious doesn't make it nutritious that's one minute this video contains zero percent meat congratulations what an accomplishment you're better than everybody else all right enough of that let's check out the next video now we're gonna see how vegan israel's army is let's check it out today is world vegan day and i'm gonna show you the most vegan army in the world fantastic in the idf there are over 10 000 vegan soldiers that's all right is it just me do i have two high expectations somehow those guys don't look like elite soldiers to me every 18 soldiers every soldier has the freedom to choose vegan boots instead of leather ones congrats brave instead of war ones and vegan food options for every single meal this is miry oh the next elite soldier vegan for five years all right guys let us clarify in israel the military service is mandatory hence they take anybody to pass their test you're probably all right as long as you have two legs to walk on i don't want to hate on this girl but you do not need me to tell you that she is not in tip top shape but as always the vegans will probably point me to studies and tell me that the bmi is in the healthy range for vegans look at this man what the fuck when i joined the idf i knew that keeping a vegan lifestyle was important to me come with me and i'll show you what's for lunch cops we have salads rice lentils and even a stir fry fantastic for me being a vegan is about health and animal rights meanwhile the american army is looking into the effect of ketogenic diets on warriors makes much more sense obviously and i'm proud that i can continue doing my part for both people and animals happy vegan day happy vegan stay all right and this is it for today just two quick videos a quick update on the situation in israel the so-called vegan capital of the world guys again you do not need me to tell you that it's absolutely pathetic there was not one person that was in shape not in the army or in the other vegan day video it is absolutely ridiculous every time we see vegans in person or on video we do not see healthy people it makes you question those vegan studies where they are all so healthy i have yet to meet one radiant healthy vegan everybody is battling some sort of melody it is always the same either they're depressed they're horribly pale the teeth are rotting out digestive issues depression the list goes on anyways this is it for today i'm not going to go into the politics behind it i'm going to leave that to you guys i'm going to leave it to your own interpretation feel free to engage in the comment section guys if you want to support the channel all the links are in the description box below with amazon links for you you can head over there buy whatever you might want to buy and it doesn't cost you anything extra we get a small share that is a fantastic way to support bobby's perspective if you want grass-fed beef delivered to your doorstep butcher boxes for you and we have cbd links as well on top of that guys consider supporting bobby's perspective through subscribe star or patreon we have a vip community there where we have skype group calls every single week where we can discuss any topic no matter if it is health lifestyle or nutrition related on top of that by joining you straight away receive your comprehensive nutrition guide it is an ebook that teaches you the basics of nutrition but goes beyond as well and is catering to your personal goals no matter if you're keto primal paleo or even raw thank you very much for your support guys and if you liked the video leave it a thumbs up if you haven't subscribed already please do so and as always guys much love and peace