Okay, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Campbell Wilson. I'm the Associate Dean International, the Faculty of IT here at Monash University. And I'd like to welcome you to this session entitled Filling the Gaps, Digital Health in South East Asia. In particular, we have a focus on Malaysia, but also the region more broadly. I'd also like to acknowledge the people of the Kulin Nations on whose land we are gathered today. And I pay my respects to their eldest past and present. Today is a session of the Momentum series of knowledge sharing sessions sponsored by the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Momentum brings together academia, the business sector and government to discuss some of the big challenges the world faces and how we can all work together to address them. Importantly, it has a focus not just on future collaboration but on future generations, with a key component of Momentum being engagement and a new Colombo plan via the NCP scholars, mobility students and alumni, and also NCP business champions. We're broadcasting the seminar live via YouTube and encourage you to interact via the YouTube chat facility, which you can also use to ask questions of the panelists. Panelists, we have more than one panelist. We'll address as many of these questions as we can today and take offline those that we can't get to due to limitations of time. Speaking of time, we expect the seminar itself to run for around about one hour. After that, for those of you physically in the room with us today, please do feel free to stay on and network with those in the room. And I am assured there will be some snacks provided. I can see them over there. So we have a very well qualified panel with us today. Sitting beside me is Professor Chris Bain. Joining us in the room here at Monash. Chris is a professor in the Faculty of IT at Monash and is the university's inaugural professor in digital health. Our other panelists are joining us online. Professor Arbid Khan is the Deputy Vice-Chancellor Global Engagement and Vice-President of Monash University. Professor Andrew Walker is also joining us online and is Pro Vice-Chancellor at Monash University and President of Monash University, Malaysia. Dr Jessica Waderson is a senior lecturer and researcher at Monash University, Malaysia and has a strong research focus around improving health equity, including through the use of participatory and human-centered design. Mark Rosario is the former CEO of General Electric in Malaysia and has been heavily involved in the development of Malaysia's national innovation strategy. Last but by no means least, I would like to introduce also the facilitator for today's event, Annie Zhang. Annie is a 2021 New Colombo Plan Singapore scholar and a current honours student at the University of Tasmania. She is researching personalised medicine, in particular drug targets for prostate cancer and has a keen interest in digital health, particularly as personalisation of medicine will be increasingly data driven in the future. So before I do hand over to Annie, it is my honour to introduce his Excellency Andrew Golodzanovsky, Australia's High Commissioner to Malaysia, who will provide us with some opening remarks. Thank you and over to you High Commissioner. Thank you, Campbell. I appreciate that. Before I start, I'd like to pay my respect to the elders of this country where I am and all the countries from which our participants are living in, and in particular, I'd like to acknowledge any Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who may be participating. I'd like to make a very warm welcome also to all of the NCP scholars, the alumni and the mobility students who are joining us from various parts of the world. I'm delighted to be part of this momentum series, shaping a stronger future together, and I'm particularly pleased with the topic that's been chosen for this session, digital help. I suspect that before the great pandemic, if that's what we're going to call it, is over, there'll be millions of words, scholarly research and papers written about the key learnings that we've taken away from this. But for me, there are two things that stand out. First of all, I think we appreciate now as we never have before the importance of public health. And moreover, the importance of cooperation between governments, universities, the private sector, civil society and media. The other important learning, I think, is how vital our digital integration has been in managing this crisis. Without the internet, we would have been left essentially with medieval solutions. We would have been hiding in our houses, locking our villages and shooting arrows at anybody that was approaching. So the fact that this session is going to be looking at the lessons that have been learned in the area of digital health, I think is very appropriate and very interesting. I won't go through all the panelists because you've done that, Campbell, but I do want to say hello again to Professor Abid Khan, who I haven't seen for three and a half years. He was my first interaction with Monash when I was preparing for this posting. And through him, I'd like to thank the entire Monash team for their contribution to Malaysia, to bilateral relations and to this particular session. And also a shout out to Andrew Walker, my old friend who I've had a lot to do over the years. One last thing I want to say by way of editorial. This is particularly interesting for us as Australia in Malaysia, because our bilateral relationship with Malaysia has probably never been stronger in our long history.  It's a very rare thing and it's something we have very few countries. And part of the work plan for that comprehensive strategic partnership has an element to do with health cooperation. So this will contribute, I think, I hope in a very meaningful way to the larger story of Malaysian-Australian cooperation between ourselves on all sorts of issues, and this one in particular. So once again, I welcome you all to this session, which promises to be very interesting, and I'm looking forward to hearing from the panelists. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, High Commissioner. So it's my pleasure now to hand over, I think, to Annie to kick off what I hope and expect to be a very interesting, exciting discussion around digital health. So over to you, Annie. Thank you, Campbell. And thank you, High Commissioner, for your insights. So before we dive into the fascinating world of digital health and talk with our panelists, I'd like to start by setting the scene a bit more broadly and talk about how we can build an environment within which global collaboration between universities industry and government have the greatest chance of success. And so I'd like to first direct my first question towards Professor Khan, the Deputy Vice-Chancellor of Global Engagement at Australia's largest university, Monash. Professor Khan, can you talk us through your views on this environment in particular, the importance of global networks in this space? What do successful networks look like? And how do we best build them? Over to you, Professor. Thank you, Annie. And welcome to everybody. And my respects, Andrew, to you. It is great to see you again online. And thank you for opening the session. Annie's question is quite a broad one. And so I should start by saying international relationships are actually very strong, particularly across the region, and have continued to remain so that through the crisis, there's a lot of sharing going on. And it's a very constructive dialogue with all of our partners. And in fact, the partnership network grows from my national and my colleagues in many other universities, Annie. I thought I'd focus on just four key domains that have probably evolved, therefore. The first is that the innovation landscape around us is changing. The second is more that there's a move towards solutions-based approaches in relationships now. Cross-institutional collaborations are therefore becoming more strategic and require a little bit more focus and shaping. And then finally, I'll touch a little bit on the education that therefore reflects this new world as well. So if I can spend just a minute on each of those, Annie, I'll dive straight in. The landscape around us has actually shifted quite a bit, even though I say relationships are strong, the actual ecosystem is changing. Our stakeholders have started to focus more on the big complex multilateral challenges that we all face. So it's very much become a world of complimentary relationships. Sorry, Lord Sainsbury in the UK said many years ago that in an age of globalization, location actually matters more, not less. And what he meant by that was that local needs and local capabilities and skills become hugely important, but in a wider context. And that's what we're seeing. We're actually seeing that play out in a really strong way. So while there remains this need to act as our colleagues and capabilities around the world, it's become shaped by a bigger agenda, by the agenda of stakeholders that are saying, well, what's the solution to these problems, not just the early stage contribution, but how do we work along that value chain and integrate the pieces so that we have answers and implementable solutions, particularly at community levels. The one example I'll use, which is the DFAT funded project, is the Australian Indonesia Centre, which brings 11 universities together across Indonesia and Australia. This is an example where big challenges are clustered together and it's pushing on those, but there are a number of other examples of that scale. COVID in my mind has actually heightened the need for value add and complementarity. We don't have as much time to have, while we welcome wide friendships, we don't have as much time to focus on all of that diverse collection of relationships. We have to bring some more focus into specific domains. That takes me to the issue of solutions-based approaches. As I say, this is really about complementarity, but also about networks spanning the value chain of delivery. So where universities remain and always will contribute to the knowledge base in the various countries they operate within, the capacity to translate that research and ultimately have community level impact and then beyond that policy level impact within governments, that whole chain has now become the sequence of events that we have to work within and contribute to. And our education paradigms have to change to match that too. The teams, therefore, we're finding need to become quite dynamic, but also have a resilience to the fact that the world is changing, that they have to be able to operate within models of governance that are quite refined now and resourcing models that are more multimodal. So money's coming from more and more different places rather than big block grants. You tend to have to manage multiple facets simultaneously. A good example there is our mosquito program. It's one of the largest in the world, works all around the world, but has very specific connections across this region where mirror laboratories work with the centre. Relying on the local skills in each country to then challenge the problem directly on the ground. And it's that on the ground capacity that's really very exciting. I've talked about cross institutional collaborations growing, but they can be a little bit ad hoc and lack focus in the traditional mindset, you know, universities all work together, it's wonderful. Now there's a little bit more of an objective orientation. And so the partner selection has become a little bit more rigorous, I would say. People are focusing on what does everybody bring to the party as it were and how do they work. So the science of working well together in a networked world where online is also a big component has become really quite apparent. The need for data sharing and data security and the integration of multiple data sources and the validity and probability of those has become hugely important. Universities are very good at this stuff, but we now also have to work with our colleagues in the industry sector in the government sectors. The collation capacities become really very important. I think a lot of people are looking to universities to take on the more systems integration type role. Where we do that we have success. So universities I think have proven themselves through this last few years as engine rooms of integration and as partners of choice with government and industry and others in that collation exercise. That brings me to my final point, which is that our education and training really does have to reflect this. I was really pleased to have the New Colombo Plan mentioned and mobility referred to in those opening remarks. We already knew that students that get a mobile experience doesn't have to be physical, but it's just an intercultural and highly interactive experience and particularly one that's problem based. They do really well. They can contribute problems very quickly. They can get into industry and government role very quickly. If we can inculcate in those processes methodologies that get them across the notion that the world is now a highly integrated place that uses open innovation models and flexible access to resources. Things like time management, cross-border knowledge, that kind of very material sort of learnings in some cases become really important. But what we're going to end up with is a globalised citizenry that actually knows how to navigate and play a role. So it's not globalization for globalization's sake. It's actually call it globalization with a purpose where everyone can work together, leverage the resources they need to solve the problem. It's a flexible resource base. Understand the facets of that. If we can get that into our students, which we do, but if we can continue to expand on the experiences and exposures they have will be in an incredible place. So that's my sort of hope for the future and now couple to changes I've seen in the environment around us, Annie. I hope that's useful. Thank you. Thank you, Professor Khan, for your views on the importance of creating this space for collaboration between industry academia and the government. And critically digital health is being proposed as a mechanism to fill gaps in healthcare in the region. So I'd like to pose my next set of questions to several of our panellists with research expertise in this field. So let's head over to Professor Chris Bain who is joining us from the Clayton campus at Monash, who is the inaugural professor of digital health at Ornash University. So to start us off, can you define digital health for us? What exactly is digital health? Thanks very much, Annie. Look, I've been at the university for about three years now and doing this role and it struck me very early on that it's really important to try and do that for people when I'm talking to them about digital health because it's quite a broad area. There's lots of different definitions floating around. And the reality is depending on where you are in the world, what you might call digital health looks really different. So somewhere like the US or Israel in many ways is a long way ahead of us. We'd be further ahead than some of our southeast Asian neighbors. So the definition I use with people is really simple and it's encompassing. It's easy to understand. Basically digital health is the use of digital tools and interventions in healthcare and wellness. So importantly in that it's including the maintenance of wellness. It's not just when people get sick and those digital tools and interventions can be quite broad. And so I might talk a little later about some of the examples of those things. The other thing I often say to people in conjunction with that really simple definition, if they're looking at, you know, a project or a system or an ecosystem that's saying is that digital health is a couple of hallmarks which I think encapsulate the true essence of digital health. So if we're talking about things that involve a smartphone, that involve apps, that involve sensors that collect digital biomarkers. So things about human physiology or behaviour you can turn into ones and zeros. If they involve what I call augmented intelligence. So not just artificial intelligence but certainly including that also things like virtual reality. And if we're talking about patient and citizen engagement and empowerment then those sort of features really point to something being quite typical digital health. Thank you Professor Bean for that definition. So can you give us some examples of how digital health could potentially help citizens and governments in Southeast Asia? Yeah, thanks Annie. I know a little bit about the health profile and some of the important background like smartphone use from our colleagues in Malaysia from working in collaboration with them. So I'll give you some sort of disease patterns that are pretty true both for Malaysia but also for Indonesia as well. So as exemplars and in fact a lot of the reasons people die in those countries are actually similar to what happens in more Western society. So, you know, stroke is a killer of many people what's called ischemic heart disease. So we often call them in common parlance heart attacks from narrowing and hardening of heart arteries, respiratory conditions, things like what's called COPD, chronic obstruction, pulmonary disease, diabetes. They're all common killers, a little bit of cancer as well in the top sort of five or 10. So they're not dissimilar to Australia in that sense in many Western countries. So, you know, that those things are driven by again similar factors to what we see here. So high smoking rates, so obesity, high blood pressure, high sugar, high lipid values are all underpinning many of those conditions as well. So I'll give you two really neat examples. One that sort of plays into the cardiac space and one that plays into the respiratory disease space. These are really well advanced, pure digital health products that people can find information about on the internet. I've spoken to many audiences including, you know, audiences full of doctors and nurses in Australia. Many of them haven't heard of these things. So the first one's a product called Cardia, K-A-R-D-I-A.   So that system can now give you basically half of a traditional ECG, six leads, which lets you see lots of things about the heart. There's about a hundred research papers about the impact of that system. You can buy that system. The odd person in Australia comes up to me after I speak and say, actually, I've got that, right? So, you know, this is the other important thing here. These things don't necessarily follow international boundaries anymore because they're products on the internet for better or worse. The other example I'll give you is definitely in the COPD space or infazema as people often know in lay terms, a disease most often by far caused by smoking and certainly prevalent in the two countries I use as an example. So that system's called propeller, as in airplane propeller. And basically that's a system involving a little Bluetooth cap that goes on top of the puffers people use. So people would be familiar with a ventilant puffer that asthmatics use. So I think a ventilant and other puffers. And basically the combination of that little cap with the usual drugs that people use linked again to a really intelligent app delivered on a smartphone is doing really remarkable things for patients with asthma and COPD. So dramatically improving their symptoms and in some cases doing that with less use of drugs. Okay. So again, that's something that can help patients enormously and in a sense, you know, I'm a little cautious Sanis but in a sense takes the doctor out of the loop and they're really good examples of true digital health that could be used in Southeast Asia today. Thank you Professor for those examples. So I'd like to head over now to Professor Andrew Walker who leads the Monash Malaysia campus and you also have an abundance of experiences and anthropologists who has undertaken research in the Southeast Asia region for over 25 years particularly the society and culture of rural Southeast Asia. And one of the core challenges in this region is societal inequality particularly in healthcare. Can you give us your personal reflections on this challenge based on your experience and also how you see digital health providing opportunities to address this? Thanks Annie. That's a big question. Yes, I'm an anthropologist. I'm much more comfortable walking around in rice fields in Northern Thailand that I am sitting here in a suit. Southeast Asia in many respects has been pretty good at economic growth. Countries like Thailand, Malaysia, even Indonesia, Vietnam they've done well in terms of economic growth. What they've done less well in is equitable growth and sustainable growth. And as you say, inequality is a pressing problem and a politically destabilizing problem in Southeast Asia and I think it's one of the reasons why we see democracy being so vulnerable in Southeast Asia. And I think what we're seeing here with new technology with digital technology is one really important tool for starting to address some aspects of that technology. Like in my work in Northern Thailand, working with farmers in Northern Thailand during the course of my career, I have seen villages going from being pretty much completely isolated in terms of telecommunication and literally for me it happened in the space of a few years. All of a sudden farmers had mobile phones. So they jumped from nothing to mobile digital technology. Fixed landlines, they never went through that long phase of transition that we did in Australia. And that is a revolutionary change. That gives people access to information who previously lacked information and one of the core dimensions of inequality is inequality and access to information. If you can ring around and get market prices for your crop, you can sell to the trader at a much better price. So let's jump down to digital health and think what that might mean for people in terms of not just being able to access information in a passive sense, but in being able to monitor, to report on their own health with the assistance and support of local health practitioners in a way that is genuinely empowering. So to me, the story is about empowerment and it can happen in all sorts of ways, but there's nothing more empowering for people in rural South East Asia than this. It's a remarkable tool and the various spin-offs that can come from this in terms of health, I think we're only just starting to discover. Thank you, Professor Walker. The Monash campus in Malaysia opened in 1998 and has now been operating for over 20 years. So having a comprehensive campus in Malaysia presumably bestows on Monash significant advantages in being able to really deliver on regional initiatives. Can you share with us how you see the strategic benefits of the campus and what role it plays in capturing the regional opportunities in digital health, particularly in translating these into practical outcomes? Annie, let me say to you, if you need some excitement when you're down there in Singapore, come up to the Monash campus in Malaysia. I'm not sure that you made the right choice there, but we are strategically situated at the intersection of a whole series of important developments. And in a way, if I can sing the Monash song for a bit, it's a forward-thinking decision 23 years ago to set up a fully comprehensive teaching and research campus in Malaysia. So let me talk about a few of the intersections we're located at right there in Kuala Lumpur. I've talked about economic development. We are in a region of massive economic development facing very key challenges of sustainability and equity. We're also going through the health transition.  In the parts of Southeast Asia where I worked, not so long ago, people died from not having enough food or from not having access to basic health care or from waterborne diseases or from earlier times smallpox and other pandemic diseases. Now we are seeing the health transition where, you know, to put one aspect of it very crudely, we are now dealing with the health problem not of poverty but of affluence. And the other key intersection we're located in at Monash Malaysia is this is a region of extraordinary human mobility. COVID certainly has put a cap on it for a while, but the Malay Peninsula, as we all know, has been one of the crossroads of the world for a very, very long time. So we have a diverse and mobile population with lots of marginal people in it. And when we're talking about filling the gaps, there's certainly lots of gaps in the landscape we're in. But that's a long-winded way of saying that Monash Malaysia campus is operating in a social, political, cultural, demographic environment that is perfect for investigating some of these digital health issues. Thank you, Professor Walker. And I'd like to now hand over to someone who is actually also based on the Malaysia campus in Monash, Dr. Jessica Waddeson, who is a senior lecturer in digital health. Jessica, you research human-centred and participatory design approaches to improving health equity. And in particular, you've undertaken a lot of work advancing digital health in resource constrained communities. Can you tell us a little bit more about your research and how it has been incorporated in projects in Malaysia? Absolutely. Thank you for having me. So throughout my career, I've recognized the importance of involving communities in the design of health interventions. And just as one earlier example, I was working on a mobile app to promote immunization in urban slums in India. And our research team came in and we told them that we had the idea to send text message reminders when their children were due for another immunization. And so we were speaking with mothers and sharing our ideas. And as we started to do that, we heard from them, one, that many of the mothers weren't able to read, and two, that they were often sharing their mobile phones with their partner as their husband might go to work. And during the day, they might not receive that message and be able to bring their child in for an appointment. So that's just one example of a time when we learned directly from the communities that we were hoping to target what we needed to be doing to address their needs. And it's not always the idea that we come in with as outsiders. That's why it's so important to include them. At Monash, Malaysia, I'm working on a project. We're also working very closely with the community. This project is actually led by my colleague, Dr. Umadevi Puanasami. And she's my colleague in the School of Medicine. Our project is focused on developing and evaluating an app that helps the deaf community to access sign language interpretation when they go for a doctor's appointment. So currently many people in the deaf community avoid going to the doctor, avoid going to healthcare appointments because they don't have a good way to communicate often. So in this project, even before I joined, Dr. Umadevi Puanasami did a fantastic job of building a close relationship with the deaf community in Malaysia. And we now have a prototype of the application that we'll be testing together with the deaf community, with doctors and with sign language interpreters to get their feedback. Thank you, Dr. Wadison. And when we talk about digital technology as a tool to bridge health inequity, another fundamental pillar in addition to engaging with stakeholders, which we have already talked about, is engaging with citizens in the region. What do you think the challenges are when it comes to citizen engagement, particularly around digital health in Southeast Asia? Yeah, so as some of the other panelists have said, obviously smartphones and access to data have been growing in the region. I think in Malaysia, a recent study done by the government of Malaysia found that 91% of households have access to a smartphone. So it's a really high proportion of people. But I think that we, a challenge is that we still need to be really intentional about not leaving anyone out. Being sure that as we're recruiting for research or recruiting for projects that we're not assuming that we're reaching everyone using a digital form, making sure that we're including people from rural areas, from low income backgrounds, and being really intentional if equity is a goal. The other challenge that I think we'll come up against with citizen engagement is being sure that what we're designing is truly relevant and helpful. I think there can be a tendency when it comes to technology and digital health to create digital tools because they can be new and exciting and sexy, but they may not actually be the best solution. And so I think by using a human-centered design approach and truly understanding the needs of the community, we can be sure that technology is actually the right solution. And it has so much potential, but we don't want to jump to a technological solution just because we have the technology. We want to be sure it's the right thing to be using. Thank you, Dr. Whatison. And thank you also to the rest of the panel for sharing some of their fascinating insights and research. I think all of us can agree that funding in research and development in digital health is critical for further progress in this domain. However, that in itself is one of the most pressing challenges facing the field today. So to discuss this in a bit more depth, I'd like to turn to Mark Rosario, the former CEO of General Electric in Malaysia. Mark, you've worked at the highest levels of government in Malaysia and you've also been heavily involved in developing the Malaysian National Innovation Strategy. More specifically, you're a proponent of a very interesting social investment funding model for digital health projects. Can you tell us a little bit more about this particular model and its benefits as you see them? Okay, thank you, Annie. And good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for inviting me today. Yeah, I'd like to, first of all, describe a little bit how this new social financing model works. And then after that, how we're trying to look at applying it in a particular startup called Greenheart to spin off from Monash, that I'm involved in as an advisor. So this social financing model is basically looking at how a social purpose organization, so it could be an NGO, it could be a social enterprise, how they could have a more sustainable source of funding for whatever they're trying to achieve. So if you think about any social issue affecting any country, so in Malaysia, for example, the top social issues could be drug abuse, child abuse, unwanted teenage pregnancies, and also the high incidence of NCDs, as was highlighted earlier, the high mortality rate from heart failure, diabetes. So these social issues cost the government a tremendous amount of funding. So if you think about an example of child abuse, for example, there's an impact, a cost impact to different parts of government. There's a cost to the healthcare system, there's a cost to law enforcement, there's a cost to welfare. And so a lot of this cost is actually more remedial in nature as opposed to being preventive. So who are the ones that are actually working on preventing the incidence of these social issues? It's actually these NGOs or social enterprises on the ground. And a lot of time the problem they have is how are they going to get funded? And typically they'd be looking for one of donations or CSR funding from corporates or philanthropists. Now if you think about the kind of social impact that they're delivering, so you think about, let's say they're focused on reducing the incidence of child abuse, which would have a cost impact on the government, basically reducing the costs that the government has to pay out because you've reduced the numbers.  And at the other end of the spectrum, the government agrees that when the impact is delivered and I can see the cost savings that I'm going to derive from this, I'll pay you a portion of that cost savings. And that money then goes back to the impact investor who can then go and fund another program. So in this sense, you have a very sustainable funding model and so it can be applied in just about any kind of environment where you're trying to reduce the incidence of any kind of social issue. So in the case of Greenheart, which is this spin-off from Monash, they have developed some new technology using AI, small data machine learning, looking at how it can derive data from individual patients from whatever device they have. It could be wearable, it could be just a basic smartphone and being able to prescribe the best treatment protocols that would result in reducing the mortality rate from heart failure. So if you think about this technology and this model that they have, what they're focusing on now, although in terms of commercialization, they have various avenues to look at, but if we focus initially on the government healthcare system and we're starting with this project in Malaysia, working with four hospitals around Malaysia, government hospitals, where we're saying, okay, we'll embark on this program where we're going to be able to reduce the mortality rate amongst these heart failure patients in these government hospitals. And when we show the results that you're not only reducing the cost of healthcare because you have a lower incidence of heart failure that you would have had if you did not have these interventions, there's going to be savings to the healthcare system.  Now this is going to require a total change of the way the government approaches how it deals and funds social issues. And that in itself is where the major challenge is going to be. So we're starting with this in Malaysia and hopefully when this model can be proven, we can look at other markets in Southeast Asia and beyond. So I hope that gives you some idea of this social financing model and how we're trying to develop this. Thank you Mark for elaborating further on that particular financing model and also for highlighting that health issues also have various indirect forms of cost that are often overlooked. So far we've talked quite extensively about issues with funding in R&D as a major obstacle to further progress in this field and Mark in particular has talked quite extensively about this but I'd like to now turn to some of the other barriers to long-term success in this space and I direct this question to all of the panelists who wish to respond. So broadly what do you think the challenges are when it comes to operational uptake and incentivization of digital health in Southeast Asia? This could be incentivizing industry leaders to make further investment in innovation, academic research or incentivizing citizens as Jessica Wettersen talked about to engage in digital health. What does this actually look like? Can I jump in with a preliminary statement, Annie? Now is a challenging time to be engaging with industry on research. Understandably people have gone through a very difficult period of economic downturn so there are certainly real challenges. The key and I'm going to state it very generally and we might get some more examples is to build up long-term partnerships and it relates to what Abid was saying before and that's what we're trying to do. Not just have individual project-based collaborations but build long-term partnerships that involve pure research, applied research but also collaboration on education, student internships, involvement in curriculum development and I think by building that multi-stranded relationship with core industry partners, it might be a bit slower but we're going to reap the longer-term benefits. Maybe I can also follow on with some comments on what Professor Andrew has just highlighted. At a more micro-level, looking specifically at the green-hot spin-off that I mentioned, the issue they are facing now is they're at the R&D stage doing clinical trials so how is that going to get funded? The government is not going to say, I'm going to commit to giving you this money and if you turn to industry, they're going to say, where's the commercial element of this? At this stage, we need to tap on potential, either governments that may be looking at a broader bigger picture or foundations or corporate CSRs to come in as an impact investor to fund this stage of the program. Then when it shows how it actually works and they're able to deliver the results, the commercialization will come later. If you think about this model where you can reduce the mortality rate of heart failure patients, you start with a government healthcare system and later in the private sector healthcare systems, you would be talking to insurance companies because you're going to be able to save them money as well. But the challenge is always at this stage when you're doing your R&D and your clinical trials, how are you going to get funded? I can answer the other piece of your question, Annie, talking a bit more about how we can incentivize citizens to engage. I think there's a lot of potential for digital health to overcome some of the barriers that we see in our societies, like linguistic barriers, for example. We have a project that we're starting at Monash Malaysia focused on Rohingya refugees who are living in Malaysia and their language is mostly spoken, not written, so that can be a big barrier to them accessing good health information. Our project is focused on developing videos that can provide health information and we're doing that again together with the community to make sure that it's the information that they need, whether that's related to COVID or to other health issues that they want to learn about. We can also overcome cultural barriers. I think as we've seen worldwide, technology is incredibly popular and I think it provides the opportunity to meet people where they are. We see that people are already on Instagram and Grab and Gojek and WhatsApp. They're spending a lot of their time on their phones. So how can we find ways to leverage those same tools to promote healthier behavior? How do we help people to order healthy food on HappyFresh or to connect with people, say, from their mosque over WhatsApp and organize a group to go for a walk? We can try and find ways to leverage the places that people are already gathering. Thank you. Annie, I might just add to Jessica's comments and I'm drawing on observations from Australia but I think this is equally true in Southeast Asia. So both the health professional community and general citizens are relatively unaware of really what digital health can do for them. They're not aware of some of what's going on in the Northern Hemisphere. They're not aware of what's going on in Israel. So I think there's a big opportunity, a big need as part of all this to actually continue to educate people in the general population and equally the health professions about what's possible now, what's actually tangible. A lot of people who do similar roles to me tend to approach it from a futurism perspective. Wouldn't it be great if one day we could and they have some snazzy graphics? I tend to just show them what's real. So here's a real product. Here's 100 real scientific papers saying it works. And even at that level, collective knowledge is still fairly low. So I think addressing that's quite important. And if I may, I was just going to make a similar point. And what we've seen with other technologies and other work we've done over many years is governments still welcome evidence-led research, but also the community interactions. As much as we like to think the governments interact with their communities all the time, they still need sometimes a translation vehicle for what the communities are trying to say. So that notion of doing the gap analysis and then, as was just said, bringing them the tangible tools, not the ones that are 20 years away, is extremely helpful. And industry often sees us as a bit of a proxy for the user community as well. So if we act that way, and we've done this in many other spaces. At one level, I don't see this as being different in some ways because it's a well-practiced solution space if we use those tools. We just need to extend them into this space progressively and more actively. But we do know this works, because it's worked with other health interventions and it's worked with other technology interventions. Thank you, Professor Khan. And thank you to all of the panelists for your responses this evening and for the interesting discussion that we have been able to have. Each of you brings a unique set of perspectives and skills to this field, and it has been a real pleasure to have this discussion with all of you this evening. I'd like to now turn to our audience, whether they are attending physically on the Clayton campus in Monash or whether they are streaming this online. If any of you have questions for our speakers or panelists, please feel free to pop them into the live chat and we will pose those questions directly to the panelists themselves. Okay, I'm going to throw to the room for questions. Do we have any questions from the room? Dan, I'm going off camera. I'm sorry. Good day, guys. My name's Dan. Thank you so much for being a part of this event. It's been incredible to hear your thoughts and your ideas on these matters. It's just invigorating to see the work in this space. Mark, you mentioned that the industry and government are hesitant to enable research in this space as commercial viability isn't proven just yet and it's mainly in the R&D phase for a lot of these projects. I've seen firsthand the individuals on a large scale are searching for ways to help others financially and otherwise. The reason for these people, for these good Samaritans was that they're typically lost in trying to find an entry point into aiding ventures as large as funding digital health research projects. Do you see a future with crowdfunding and community-owned platforms specifically designed to enable wider community participation in funding critical projects like these using technologies like blockchain or DeFi? Thanks. Thanks, Dan. Well, crowdfunding is certainly a very useful tool for providing funding. But I think at the R&D stage, it still will be a challenge because unless the funders are coming in with some kind of social objective as well, it's going to be difficult because crowdfunders typically, you know, they would put in money on the basis of the commercial, you know, basically the commercial potential of whatever innovation that's being presented. So that's why, you know, when that social financing model that I described is actually looking more at what we call like investors who are not just looking for a financial return, but at social element as well. Increasingly though now, especially with SDGs and, you know, corporates having this social obligations as well, many are also looking at the broader aspects of social returns, not just for financial returns. And so from that aspect, you know, it may be possible, but you really need to show how you're able to deliver measurable social impact from whatever projects that you're presenting. And it's certainly possible because there are tools now to show how you can actually measure social impact in financial terms as well as what I described in those cases for social issues affecting the country. You actually have data showing how much a particular social issue is directly costing the government, but you've got a lot of other different cost impacts as well. You know, there's indirect costs. If you think about, think about heart failure, for example, there's a direct cost to the healthcare system, but there's the direct, indirect economic cost as well of a person not being able to contribute, you know, from his work perspective. He's not able to work, and so he's not contributing to the economy. So by being able to quantify these things, you know, you may be able to succeed in getting funding from either corporates or crowd funders who may have a broader intention of not just financial returns, but possibly social return as well. I hope that answers your question. I wonder if there are any other questions from the room here. Brilliant. One second. Just staying within the topic of funding, and this is probably for Chris and Andrew, do you think there is a role for the university sector to be supporting the funding of new research projects and collaborations within an industry and researchers, et cetera? Did you want to address that first Andrew? Well, I would have paid if someone asked that question. Chris, it's a lovely question for me. So we at Monash Malaysia, we're committing some significant preliminary funding for some of the research projects Jessica was talking about. So I certainly think there's a very important role, especially in Monash Malaysia, where sometimes access to external funding can be more challenging for the university itself to enable this research to get started. I'm thinking very carefully about Mark's comments. There's a real difficulty, I suppose, in what we might call the mid-phase between the preliminary research and the commercialisation. What role might we need to play in getting things further advanced along the lines that Mark's talking about? That's something that I'm thinking I want to talk more about. But look, the answer is yes. We're putting money in and we will put more, and we want to really get the maximum impact we can for this investment. Not much I can add to that, except to acknowledge what Andrew said and the fact that he has put a substantial investment into this space. Part of that is embodied in Jessica, who on my screen is just to his right. But that also ties into something that we've said a few times before, having somebody actually dedicated to this on the ground in Malaysia is going to make all the difference in terms of having impactful projects that really make a difference and are informed from the ground up as well. Annie, let me throw back to you. Are there any questions from the live stream? Hi, Campbell. We have a couple of questions around legal responsibilities in terms of digital health. So John online has just asked from an ethical perspective, at what point are we obliged to replace the doctor or the human if the AI is proven more effective? Are we obliged to enact this? This is probably best directed at Professor Bain. There's several PhDs in that. That's an unanswered question. I'd be very careful about, especially depending on your audience, about implying we're going to lose doctors. I think those of us who are deep in this space and like myself have actually been in the health professions acknowledge that we're trying to fill gaps. We're trying to augment human performance. It will be an awfully long time, if ever before many health workers are replaced. And it's also, I don't think, a great way to frame digital health for it to proceed well to imply that that's an inevitable consequence. So I'll give you another really good example. So the use of AI in a procedure called a colonoscopy. So there's a number of places around the world doing this. So a colonoscopy basically places a tube under anesthetic. So if you look in the intestinal track from the rear upwards, it's taking videos as you go basically, a skilled person, usually a gastroenterologist is looking at the lining of the bowel for cancers and other things. But that can all be video recorded. Researchers have now analysed that video, trained AI systems. And in some cases, they are doing better than human performers in terms of picking up cancers and various lesions. Now I've simplified an issue. I think the important sort of take away, the logical step from that is not can we get rid of these people, but can we use this sort of a system to let less experienced people do the procedure. Or maybe in places where you don't have access to a specialist gastroenterologist, you know, a nurse endoscopist could do it with support from an artificial intelligence system. So it's boosting people's capabilities. It's not replacing them. I think that's a better way to think about this kind of an issue. I think you're on mute, Annie. How's that? That's better. Better? Awesome. So that concludes the panel discussion for this evening. Thank you to everyone that attended both online and physically also on the Clayton campus. I'll just head over now to Campbell to make the concluding remarks. But I'd like to again thank DFAT and particularly Monash University for organising this event and for bringing everyone together for discussion. And a very warm welcome. Thank you also to our panellists for participating in the discussion this evening. Over to you, Campbell. Thank you, Annie. And thank you to all the panellists. Just before we conclude, I would like to invite another special guest. Andrew Kampsten is the Victorian State Director of DFAT. I'd like to ask you, Andrew, to make the closing remarks. Thank you very much. Thank you, Campbell. Actually, my primary job was to thank the panellists and Monash University and yourself. And Annie, I think the one, my one piece of value add is to thank you too for your excellent co-chairing. So thank you all for a wonderful session. As someone who works for government, I was slightly apprehensive that this would be a very technical discussion with some sort of very deep health technology discussed. And through it was, I also really enjoyed the public policy aspects. And Mark, I particularly enjoyed your ambition and your obvious, as someone who was a former health economist in developing environment, I enjoyed your social ambition to change the way that health care is funded in your society and to a point that Andrew and Jessica made that it is both public health outcome but also an equity outcome, which is incredibly important for societal health. So thank you again, Monash, for your support to the New Colombo Plan and the Momentum Program. I'd also like to thank Brian Bohemia, who is behind, is the mastermind behind all these events and is an absolute treasure of DFAT. And we're very, we're very proud to be working for us. And I'd just like to make two final remarks for those of you online. The next seminar will be on Thursday, the 15th of April. And is that the right date, Brian? Yep. And quite soon, so next week. And I'd also encourage everyone here at Monash to join us for some drinks afterwards. So thank you very much. And thank you again, Campbell. Thank you, everybody. We will close the session now. And please do join us, as Andrew said, for some networking. If you are in the room, thank you to all of you who chose to tune in online. And we look forward to seeing you in the next Momentum webinar. Thank you.


Hey guys, how you doing? This is your boy rich here on behalf of rich TV live. So last week I told you guys I bought teagot. I also told you guys it was my number one pick of 2019 well today. I just sold it. Let me tell you why see how right here on the MacD You can see that they're pointing down and how the red is starting to come under the line I feel like it's kind of come to the top here and it's gonna consolidate and maybe come back down now I might go higher I might be wrong, but I just feel like it's gonna come back down So I'm selling it right now because I was up $2,000 on my trade And I had to take the money and run so I'm in I'm out It's not that I won't go back into teagod But I just felt like with these indicators pointing down that there might be you know It was a nice run here right from 280 all the way to 420. I didn't want to be greedy I was up $2,000 on my trade in a few days. So I took the money and I ran I'm in a cash position ready for my next trade, but this was a fair trade I got in initially at $3 and 80 cents region that I bought more around 290 the lower my cost of 340 I had 2,000 shares and I just sold at 423 and I made $2,000 on my trade So very happy with it. Remember rich TV live is strictly for education entertainment purposes Do your own due diligence do your own research before you invest in anything that we talk about here on rich TV live You can take a look at all the winners today There are a lot of winners in the cannabis space as predicted a lot of these are companies that I've talked about first a lot of These are companies that I predicted for you the people. So remember if you're not winning You're definitely not watching we bring you all the winners and we bring them to you first There you go teagod number one after I told you guys it was my number one pick for November 2018 I also told you guys it was my number one pick for 2019 I also told you guys that planet 13 was my one of my top picks for 2018 for November and they are on fire up 16% today. So remember if you're not winning you're definitely not watching This is your boy rich Just sold my teagod guys. What do you think about this if you like this smash the like button? Are you holding? Are you selling? What do you think about the strategy comment down below? I think it's gonna go way higher, but it just had to take the two G's I had to I had to take the money and run the MACD's pointing down the yellow and the blue lines are pointing down The red is looking like it's oversold the red and the blue lines here on the stochastics are pointing down So I had to sell it. I know it's probably gonna go higher, but I had to sell it Let me know what you think subscribe to rich TV live Okay, and hit the bell for notifications. So every time we have any breaking news you can hear first Is your boy rich and I'm out So my teagod guys, sorry, but I might go back in I'll let you know. Peace


Coming up on DTNS, Amazon launches a Kindle for Kids. Will you want to rent your music speakers? And Ariel Waldman tells us about pagers and parties while studying extremophiles in Antarctica. This is the Daily Tech News from Monday, October 7th, 2019 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Feline, I'm Sarah Lane. And I'm Roger Chang, the show's producer. Very excited to have Ariel Waldman, a NASA advisor and author of What It's Like in Space Stories from Astronauts who've been there on the show today. Welcome. How's it going? Yeah, good. How are you? Good. So you got back from Antarctica a year ago, almost a year ago now, right? Yes. And now the show has been put out on YouTube over the summer and is being put out as a podcast, right? So I don't think I have a podcast version of my Antarctic expedition, but I do have it all on my YouTube channel. Excellent. Well, we'll give you more information on where you can find that. We're going to talk to Ariel about some of the technology they use down there and her experience there. We also talked about what they eat there on Good Day Internet. If you want that wider conversation, you got to get Good Day Internet by becoming a member at patreon.com slash DTNS. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Apple has reversed its decision to reject the HK map app from the App Store. The app takes reports from Telegram and shows where law enforcement is located in Hong Kong, as well as reports of tear gas use. Apple rejected the app Wednesday, October 2nd, because it allowed users to evade law enforcement. The app was resubmitted later that day and Friday was accepted. Hulu launched the ability to download shows for offline viewing. Users can download up to 25 titles across five devices, keep them there for 30 days. Although once you start watching a title, it expires two days after you start playing it back. If you're on the commercial free plan, you can download the majority of Hulu's catalog using Hulu's iOS app. Hulu says it will bring that function to Android soon, but caveat, if you have the cheaper plan, the one with commercials, you don't get the offline viewing plan. You got to pay for the top one. Right around the time we were doing DTNS last Friday, PayPal announced it is withdrawing from the Libre Association. The company said it supported Libre's aspirations and continues to partner with Facebook on the future, but will focus on its mission to, quote, democratize access to financial services for undeserved populations. PayPal was one of the originally announced 28 members of the Libre Association. You know, that's the pressure, the public pressure is getting to him. AMD announced the Radeon RX 5500 and RX 5500M cards based on seven nanometer RDNA architecture meant for 1080p gaming. Both cards offer 1408 stream processors, 22 compute units with the RX 5500 available with up to eight gigabytes of GDDR6 RAM and capable of 5.2 teraflops. The laptop focused RX 5500M comes with four gigabytes of GDDR6 RAM and hit up to 4.6 teraflops. Both cards will connect over PCIe 4.0 and offer Radeon image sharpening and Radeon anti-lag features. Same ones found in the RX 5700 line. No pricing or specific availability yet. The first laptop with the RX 5500M will be the MSI Alpha 15 offering a Ryzen 7 3750H CPU and a 1080p 144 Hertz FreeSync display. Expect that laptop to show up at the end of October. Waymo will begin operating three autonomous cars in downtown Los Angeles in the Miracle Mile area of Los Angeles. The cars will be manually driven while creating maps for the area after which they will operate in autonomous mode with safety drivers of course. Waymo has no plans to offer passenger service in LA at this time. But a significant new region for the testing. Certainly not first, but something to pay attention to. Amazon launched a kids edition of the Kindle eReader that includes a case, a two year free replacement guarantee and a year of Amazon's free time service for kids. That's something that costs you around $5 a month depending on whether you have Prime or not. But you get it for free if you get the Amazon Kids Edition Kindle. The Kindle Kids Edition is available for pre-order for $110 shipping October 30th. Amazon also launched free time for Fire TV starting with the Fire TV stick and then coming to Fire TV devices and eventually Fire TV Edition TVs.  Free time lets parents set content restrictions as well as age and time limits. If you pay for free time unlimited, you get ad free access to a bunch of kids movies and TV shows as well. New free time features include reading badges that kids can earn for how often they read or the types of books they read and more, some gamification kind of stuff. And a new feature also puts a quick definition of challenging words available between the lines of the book. You can turn that on or off. There's a few other dictionary related features in there for helping kids understand words. But first time that Amazon has targeted an e-reader, particularly at kids. I love this idea. As a kid, I read prolifically. I often, there was a challenging word where it was like, mom, what is this word mean? She say, use it in a sentence and we'd figure it out amongst ourselves. And it would have been nice to have a little bit of like a some sort of a something that echoes my smartwatch where it says like, you've read a really good amount, keep going, get smarter. That kind of thing. I think that that is really motivating certainly for certain kids. And I'd be interested to see if this could be integrated into schools a little bit more so that teachers could help you know, check in kids along.  So maybe that's a non-starter right there. But is it attractive to you and your two daughters? Potentially, but I don't like you said, I don't actually have a lot of AMD or AMD, Amazon devices. I can see it being more useful as my daughter gets older, but she's still at the the stage where she wants to watch very erratic stuff. So it's she doesn't have the attention span, I guess, to sit through anything more educational than five minutes. What about other educational situations? I mean, like you said, Sarah, there's there's all kinds of ways that I could see teachers taking advantage of this, maybe, you know, having some reading time for folks seems like a really it's got some possibilities. However, I don't know if there's an educational version of free time or if it's really it seems to be really targeted appearance right now. Yeah, in fact, I don't think that there is one. I think that it would be a great idea for Amazon to figure out how this could be integrated into schools because, you know, oftentimes the teachers are the ones that are encouraging kids to read and do more educational things on on tablets anyway. Amazon also updated the Fire HD 10 tablet. The device now comes with a 10.1 inch 1080p touchscreen and updated eight core processor, two gigs of RAM, 32 or 64 gigabytes of internal storage with micro SD card expansion and a USB C port. Battery life is rated at 12 hours up to two hours from the outgoing HD 10 and charges for it two full in four hours. So that's a nice short time. The HD 10 runs Fire OS on Android P and includes a picture in picture feature for some video apps including Netflix and Amazon Prime Video, not surprisingly. There's also a kids edition HD 10 similar to the Kindle with a two year replacement battery, a silicon tablet case and a free year of free time unlimited. Both devices are available for pre-order today, shipping October 30th. The HD 10 starts at $149 and the HD 10 kids edition starts at $199. Two year replacement warranty, not battery, although if your battery breaks, you get it replaced two years. So it works either way. And that's that's really important when selling these kids editions that the fire tablet was the first one to kind of pioneer this idea of having a kid friendly version of the device. So I'm not surprised to see them kind of updating that along with bringing it out to the Kindle. The new Fire HD 10 tablet certainly seems like it's it's well specced, but people seem most excited about the fact that it has a USB C port on it. Like people have gone from complaining about things with USB C ports to like cheering when a USB C port arises. I have so many of them anyway like now thank you just get on board. California Governor Gavin Newsom signed two bills into law last week regulating the distribution of deep fake videos. Bill AB 730 now our law AB 730 makes it illegal to distribute manipulated videos aimed at deceiving voters or discrediting candidates within 60 days of an election. I guess if it's 61 days before an election you can distribute all you want. AB 602 gives people in California the right to do to sue someone for creating pornographic deep fakes using their likeness without consent and a study released Monday from Dutch security company Deep Trace found that 96% of the more than 14,000 deep fake videos identified online were pornographic in nature. Now they're not necessarily revenge porn or something like that but that seems to be what it's used most for. So AB 602 making it easier to sue someone for creating deep fakes using their likeness seems like it is called for since that's the majority use of this. AB 730 which is the one about not distributing manipulated videos aimed at deceiving voters I mean why limit it to 60 days is my question. Yeah you mentioned if it's 61 days are we in the clear here? Are you okay? Yeah it seems like if it's a rule that is designed to confuse and you know and perhaps unfairly manipulate something like an election it should just be a rule 100% of the time. I suppose there's reasons to say well we're limiting speech too much if we do that so just around elections we want to dampen down but if you're limiting speech you're limiting speech whether it's around election or not. Ariel I'm curious if you have a take on that particular part of this that idea of saying you can't distribute something meant to deceive voters and who gets to decide that too? Yeah well and also how is it enforceable so if something's created at 60 you know at 70 days but then it doesn't really pick up until within the 60 day frame and it's someone else who disseminates it from someone who's like I don't know it's just it seems very strange I'd be very curious where that came from and a little bit dismayed if it just came from well the 60 days leading up to the election is when you can really distort voters we've found or something I don't know it's I don't know it's almost like they created it to be shot down it seems very I don't know strange. I wonder if someone is going to challenge that in court especially that what you mentioned is a really interesting scenario of like I have a bunch of things up that are that could be considered deceptive and then at 60 days do I have to take them all down for 60 days until the election's over and then I can put them back up yeah or if somebody you know retweets them or or something similar which would be distributing does it come back to me somehow yeah is it twitter is it you yeah now it's uh it's interesting but we'll see how this ends up being enforced and and if it gets taken into court yeah I also wonder if it's really about individuals or about the social networks themselves so who are they trying to hold to account is it you know is it the conspiracy theorist or is it you know Jack Dorsey I don't know well it's the distributor so my guess is it's going to it's targeted at the platforms because they are the distributor of things they're also the companies that will pay out more money one suit oh my yes this is perhaps in a lighter note sonos launched a test of a subscription service for its hardware called sonos flex 500 homes in the netherlands can now choose from three different plans 15 euros per month gets you two sonos one smart speakers which is equivalent to buying after just more than 2.5 years or 25 euros per month gets you a sonos beam soundbar and two sonos one speakers about three years if you were to buy them outright and for 50 euros per month you get a play bar you get a subwoofer and you get two sonos one speakers which is equivalent to about three years five months ish however the speakers will be automatically replaced with new models as they're released which is a perk at least of the subscription model you also get free delivery and you can cancel anytime and if you're in amsterdam apparently they'll do free installation but that's only because you're near sonos headquarters so i'm not sure if that one would carry out to other areas uh i'm i'm curious i feel like this is a really good test case to see how far the subscription culture goes uh most of us subscribe to music or tv services of one kind of or another many of us subscribe to things that are that are a little more tangible maybe we subscribe to a coffee shipment club or something like that there are even services out there to subscribe to your furniture uh where you can just have the furniture in your home on subscription so if you if you move you don't you don't have to keep it yeah and you can keep swapping it out that's one of the other big benefits sure a lot of people do that with phones too where they they paid up for a plan that gives them the newest phone every year speakers on the other hand not something i mean i've had my sonos speakers for an embarrassingly long time probably like seven years uh so not something that i swap out but maybe that's more important to somebody else well and sonos is and i have some of those old uh sonos speakers as well tom but i also have a couple of sonos ones i've been looking at the beam but i've been holding off because it's actually quite expensive sonos is a premium audio brand you know if you if you're into it and you can afford it it works great but it is priced out of a lot of people's um hands and so the idea that you can get into something at a lower price which you know as any lease option works as anybody knows who has a car um that you you will end up paying more over time but this is a subscription model that people are getting more and more familiar with on the hardware side it's a little interesting to me that sonos is doing this but again it's like i don't know look at creative cloud look at you know so many subscription services people kind of go like yeah well but then you you know you get free updates everything's kind of all part of the deal you just pay once a month and you get all that stuff what i think is somewhat strange about this is it's almost as if sonos is selling this as if to say but you get all the new stuff automatically they're not releasing a new speaker like every few months it's more like once every year or two so that has to be something that you have to take into consideration you know if you think you're getting the latest and greatest it's not like some sort of like a ios update no but i mean ios only updates once a year so if sonos were updating once a year maybe that would make sense i think they're updating much less frequently than that and and almost to the point of like it's just barely the same as the amount of time that you said it you know this would be even if you had bought it yourself like every couple years so yeah it's i don't know i'm ariel would you uh would you subscribe to speakers i mean i personally wouldn't but you know it to me this all brings up like if people are going to have ways to manage like what you subscribe to because there are so many subscription services but also i'm someone who has my own subscription service i have patreon you have patreon like you know and people subscribe to that and that's meant for you know people who are fans of your work and just want to support it and equally i i guess this sounds a little bit like the the apple program of if you want the latest greatest and you're a fan you know then this is a way to go for it and maybe maybe they just launch this as sort of low hanging fruit and maybe they're not expecting it to be something you know like netflix that takes over uh i i don't think it's for me but what i've heard of people who do have these speakers a lot of them are like super fans of sonos so you know maybe it's just meant for their super fans i'm not really sure well it's it is a test so maybe sonos isn't really sure either well we'll see how it goes in the netherlands uh speaking of apple apple released mac os catalina to the public downloadable from the mac app store for free the itunes app gone if you get catalina replaced by standalone music podcasts and tv apps that are mimics of the ones you find on ios and tv os ios device management now goes through the finder instead of itunes so if you want to sync your phone still or an ipod touch that's where you'll find it apple id management as part of the new profile setting and system preferences and a lot of folks are really excited about sidecar that lets you turn an ipad into a secondary display for your mac with apple pencil to turn the ipad into a drawing tablet when using apps like photoshop and illustrator on the mac duet might be better for those sort of situations but it's now built in they've sure locked that's that feature to some extent so we both upgraded our max uh to to catalina i upgraded my laptop because i'm a coward not my production machine that i'm streaming on right now but sarah you you are braver than me you went right you're using catalina to stream right now yeah i live uh life on the edge and i did i i upgraded at about 10 a.m knowing this might take a while 10 a.m pacific knowing that this might take a while and it's still kind of barely finished by the time show time started however uh it was fairly seamless uh didn't have any hiccups and boy and again these are these are you know knee jerk reactions because i've had a very short amount of time to live with this but as somebody who hated the itunes app more than life itself particularly on us 10 the fact that music and podcasts and the new tv app are all separated makes my life so much better music in particular because i've subscribed to apple music for a couple of years now i love it use it all the time um the experience within itunes on os 10 was you could get there but it was just convoluted and made no sense now it mirrors exactly what it looks like on ios i mean besides the fact that you have a little bit more screen real estate on os 10 depending on your display and you know but for the most part it it makes more sense than it ever did man i just uh lot while you were describing that i launched sidecar uh and connected to the ipad that i used to launch the sounds on dts connected like that it was it was pretty fast pretty impressive so there you go yeah folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes be sure to subscribe to dailytechheadlines.com all right let's talk about antarctica first of all how are you able to make this happen i won't even ask you why because i think antarctica is the answer to that but like how are you able to get this all together uh yeah so i yeah i got really obsessed with the idea of going to antarctica but because i don't have a formal background in science i didn't really know what my best pathway there would be um but i discovered that the national science foundation has a grant called the Antarctic artists and writers grant so they send every year they send down a couple artists and writers to antarctica to um you know do interesting creative work that communicates a certain aspect of antarctica so i thought that was a good pathway um unbeknownst to me it ended up taking me four applications over five years to this grant to end up getting there so it was a long haul but um but last year yeah i finally got the go ahead from from this program to go down there so i spent five weeks down there in total and you were you were studying and writing about extremophiles particularly i know right yeah so i went down to film uh all of the microscopic extremophiles that live beneath the ice in different locations so beneath the sea ice or beneath glaciers things of that nature and i wanted to film them using microscopes because a ton of biologists get sent down to antarctica to tell us like what species are down there and their distribution but they don't really take many photographs typically or they maybe take one or two photographs and they end up in a scientific paper and you never see it so no one really knows that antarctica is actually full of life and no one really knows what that life looks like so that that was my whole project yeah the storytelling aspect of it um i would think is is was very needed do you feel like the you know the science community that you were hanging out with for five weeks uh was was was happy to have you there and kind of understood the the the general idea yeah that was the most surprising in a in a good way uh to uh aspect to me so i do a lot of work in science but um it's not all the time that i go to a community and get introduced as an artist even though that's my background um so i was a little bit nervous that people were going to think that i didn't really know that much or not be that interested or be just a little bit snarky towards me and it totally wasn't that way everyone there was so friendly i think there's so much of like a camaraderie of like you made it to antarctica who cares what you do or how you made it here like we're all here together like let's be like you know awesome friends together or something so people were really fascinated no one um no one treated me like i didn't you know know my stuff about the science that i was there to do um and everyone was actually really just uh interested because if anything going down to antarctica as an artist everyone's like wow like that's the cool job that i want like you know forget doing you know being in the lab all day or or uh being in the galley serving food all day like getting to go to antarctica as an artist is a pretty special thing and it is a pretty special program well one of the things i enjoyed about your series was it kind of busts some of the stereotypes people might have of like you know two or three lonely people bundled up in the arctic wind like there's a full on halloween party going on with people in costume uh and and you were able to use your your normal technology there there's some there's some antiquated technology going on too like i know you were issued a pager what what's the balance between the 1990s era stuff that still persists because it works and and what you were able to bring and use on your own yeah i mean so you can bring for for me i brought down my microscopes and i brought down you know most of my um series that i put on youtube was filmed with my iphone most of that's okay in in the McMurdo area because you are at sea level so it while it's uh definitely very cold in the summer there it's not um it's not so bad that you have to worry about a lens breaking within like the first 10 minutes whereas if you go to the south pole which is a much higher altitude you do have to worry about like if you take your iphone out of your pocket for more than you know a few minutes like it might break and then you're stuck with a broken iphone for the entire season you're there but yeah they do use very antiquated technologies because um there's very few satellites that are polar orbiting and because of that they have limited internet access um and there's no cell signal so uh the majority of people uh do not have computers at all while they're down there they have shared computers that they can use um you're using ethernet uh all of the time and uh you have no um internet access in the dorms so you have to if you're someone who has an office or a lab you can have your internet access in there um but yeah pagers are are a thing and so everyone uses pagers and office phones and so um it was like getting transported back several decades because if you are agreeing to meet with someone at a certain time and then something comes up and you can't meet them at the time that you said that you were going to meet you have no way of getting a hold of them and I forgot what that was like of like oh crap I'm going to be like 30 minutes late and they're not at their home or office I can't oh no I lost connection uh I thought perhaps as a demonstration maybe yes maybe that was uh Ms. Waldman's way of saying here's how it is kind of like this for instance yeah uh so uh hopefully we'll get her her reconnected here in a second but uh if you want to find out all of this and see the video that Ariel shot go to youtube.com slash Ariel Waldman that's a r i e l w a l d m a n uh and you can actually see her with the pager in use uh all right uh well let's uh let's carry on uh and and thank the folks Sarah let's thank all of our people who participate in our subreddit I mean you might be people you might be emperor penguins I mean we have no judgment if you submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com we will thank you in advance we also have a facebook group facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show all right let's check in with Chris Christensen aka the amateur traveler who has a little news bit on TripAdvisor's bid to end whale and dolphin captivity this is Chris Christensen from amateur traveler with another tech in travel minute many of you go to TripAdvisor to try and figure out whether you should stay in that hotel room or to get suggestions for what to do in a particular city they are the most popular travel website in the world and they're trying to use some of that popularity for good as they've just taken down tickets on their website that are for parks that keep whales and dolphins in captivity there's definitely been a push to do a more eco-friendly in experiences with whales and dolphins and that often means just whale watching or some of the dolphin swimming doing it in the wild where the dolphin can opt in it isn't kept in captivity well now TripAdvisor is getting behind that as well and I know many people and I think I would be one of them will take that as a positive step this is Chris Christensen from amateur traveler yeah I'm I'm opt in for whales and dolphins along with people I'm always for opt in no matter no matter who it is so that's cool that's interesting too that the TripAdvisor is is is trying to make sure that that's part of the system I like that absolutely shout out to all our patrons at our master and new grand master levels indeed indeed and thank you to Ariel Waldman for coming on I'm sorry that we got cut off like that but again arielwaldman.com twitter.com slash arielwaldman youtube.com slash arielwaldman it's a-r-i-e-l-w-a-l-d-m-a-m and I know she wanted to talk about the science hack day she's the she's kind of the the general advisor of of science hack day in san francisco october 19th and 20th free to attend as Rachel Mets put it on twitter earlier today free baby sitting if you're if your child is in the right age group october 19th 20th they have food there they'll feed you you know experience required child care bursaries available even if you want to attend and and have your your child taken care of I guess that's the child care that that Rachel was talking about but you just got to go to Ariel's twitter and you can find out more details and she's back right in time I am so sorry I think my internet at home literally cut out so I am now using the internet on my phone so hopefully it'll hold out we assumed that was just some kind of like severe demonstration of what it's like in Antarctica it's a little bit yeah yeah all right about that no that's okay we were uh we were just uh wrapping up telling people about science hack day october 19th and 20th uh in san francisco and what's the easiest way to register for that if people want to do that uh science hack day 2019.eventbrite.com excellent or you can go to sf.sciencehackday.org and the registration link is there as well Ariel thank you so much uh for for chatting with us today is a fascinating trip that you took I hope everybody takes some time to take a look at the video that you brought back from there it's really cool yeah absolutely yeah it's all on my youtube channel and again I'm sorry that my internet cut out but uh but the videos will help tell the story better than I did today we're all we're all familiar with video issues happens to us all we do have new patreon rewards as well become a member of dts and get a peek at our show rundown as we develop it uh some behind the scenes chats and more and on november 1st everybody who is at the two dollar level or above gets a pdf copy of the official dts good day internet cookbook with recipes from the show hosts and some listeners as well sign up now uh if you're at the dollar level your your benefits don't change but you don't get the cookbook unless you upgrade to the two dollar level at patreon.com slash dts do you have feedback for us we'd love to get it our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com if you can join us live we're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m eastern that's 20 30 utc and you can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live back tomorrow with patrick bezia talk to you then this show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com the diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this brover


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Are those articles you were talking about earlier still online? Yeah, some of them if you go to my site By the way blogger now is taking out some of my pages on my blogger page I've been on blogger for 10 years now right after my I had my own website my own website got the Server got hacked and it was taken down and stuff like this So I just went okay I can't deal with the maintenance of a website or the expense of a website So I went on blogger after 10 years of being on blogger blogger is now taking down pages Articles that I've written in the past one of the pages they took out was just a table of contents linking up to our blog our Podcasts on SoundCloud right and the reason it's happening is because SensorTube YouTube and Google blogger and a lot of these technocratic sites They have automation running and it's filtering censoring information and they don't even know that the programs are so horrendous That they don't even know what they're censoring right there. I'll read you a piece. I wrote In one of my first articles I ever wrote. I'm gonna read you a paragraph on it Okay, but before we go there, let's see what let's find out says Chicho That was an articulate way to teach others to have control of their time and lives Pursue your passions and pass on Valuable life information at an affordable price Eric Weinstein wisely said all it takes for you to earn six figures is a Thousand followers to invest a hundred dollars a year into your project. Awesome. And Eric Weinstein I like Aaron Weinstein's a podcast by the way if we're thinking about the same person And that's a great way of saying it right and that's one of the business models I've had in my life There's a few different teachers that I followed one of them was Robert Anton Wilson, but let me let me read you this Nomelies prisons and geo physics one of the first articles, there's two articles Actually about four articles that I wrote when I came online my first articles in 2005 or so, right? 2005-2006 one of them was a real review of system of a downs music right and Phenomenal piece This piece right here. Let me link it up for you guys anomalies prisons and geo physics How governments use data and how to stop them? Do that's the article. Thank you very much Millsy 115 for the twitch prime sub this article right here. This article took me Three weeks four weeks to write really took me a long time took me about a month to write because I wanted to share my vision of where society was going if We were not careful if we didn't hold these centralized powers accountable, which is where we are by the way, right? This is about data mining data collection how centralized power can control Our lives and turn turn us into serfs and slaves right destroy our life read this article I put a lot of time and effort into this game But I'm going to read you the last paragraph in this and all the embedded video in this article that I that I sent you All the stuff was after I had written this article. I Because this was on my first site. I ever loaded this is the third iteration on my site online, right? This was on the first side all this embedded video is after the fact right? I just embedded some videos on there, but I'm going to read you the last paragraph I think it's the last paragraph I'm going to read you this right and this is about data collecting Okay, no, I'm going to read you the last two paragraph and I We've a sandwich Edward Stone Snowden's video between these two paragraphs, right? So let me read you this apologies I'm not reading the chat. Okay quote from my own article The best way however to stop these entities is to make fundamental changes to the system itself This requires us to be to be educated in the methods in which we control We are controlled allowing us to understand the problems that exist in the current systems so we can avoid its pitfalls placement at the highest levels in government of ethical civil servants that are accountable to the people and regard the privacy of Individuals as the most important aspect of their duties is an essential starting point It is also crucial that during this transitional period They've joined this transitional period alternative choices for leaders Leaders are present to avoid a power vacuum by Decentralizing our government and localizing our communities. We can avert chaos during this process as a collective We must understand that democracy can only exist in a society with an educated populace and the right for self-governance Can only be obtained through knowledge when a society embraces ignorance and forfeits is right to control its destiny It has succumbed to apathy and can only deteriorate in science the analysis of anomalies Contributes to our understanding of the physical world improving our lives in contrast Identifying anomalies in our society based on political doctrine has created fear and misunderstanding restricting our lives the lack of accountability from our leaders and our Indifference to the consequences of their actions is diminishing our civil liberties, but it is not too late We can prevent this from happening We still have the ability to reclaim our future if we begin to educate ourselves Okay That's just the last two paragraph from that article Very important back then at the beginning of 2000s after 9-11 when they went into After 9-11 really Patriot Act kicked in you could see where centralized power wanted to take our societies which is here now presently and What a dystopian society I see coming ten years from now for not careful Okay That was a warning I wrote in 2005 2006 Why does MCS sure look like cloud Shannon? I don't know what cloud Shannon looks like Controllers then how are you doing chat? Many of you don't know this but Chicho actually has a Strain of marijuana named after him. It's called a cheecho-chong I Wish one day there will be right. We'll call it the cheechoni and cheecho-chong Yes, they named it 1996 hilarious Funny funny. So basically they won. How do we have any hope when they have all of the power? Yeah, no, they don't all have all of the power. They don't have it, right? They don't have it Look at all the censorship going on sensor to look at this chocolate. Look at this chocolate. Look at this chocolate. Yeah Oh, yeah Look at the censorship on sensor to write Look at all the alternative platforms Not all turn the new tech has popped up is disruptive innovation to challenge the stuff I load up more videos on bit you rumble and Odyssey than I do censor to in five years times I've been on censor to for 15 years In 15 years time I'm gonna have way more videos on those platforms that I am on censor to if I live to be The expected age that males Live in Canada.  That's a that's What I wrote down I believe right? What are they doing right now? What are they doing right now? They were doing this Back then but they were doing it to very select people. So the majority of people were like Whatever, they're bad people or governments telling the truth. Our government was lying through their teeth Right? Our government was lying through their teeth Look at how many innocent people they have in Guantanamo way.   Thanks elder God took me a long time to write that piece Because I really wanted to make sure it was timeless