Hello everybody, I'm Nishanga Bortaka, I'm a psychologist by profession, and we trained ourselves in this video making, and we've been doing this since 2007. And as Peter said, we've produced 500 movies since. And I have 20 minutes to talk about the gear that we're using, interviewing techniques, and framing and composition, which is impossible. And I always want to tell too much, so I still have like 60 slides for 20 minutes, so I will jump through some of the slides, and maybe it will make you curious, and you will come to these trainings to know what the slide was about. But I think, when we talk about the gear first, we can play this what's in my bag kind of YouTube video thing, you know you have these what's in my bag things. And I will talk about and show you the gear that we have here, which is more like a professional or more sort of professional gear. But we also, this is how it looks like when I prepare to bring this stuff here, I put everything down on the ground to check that we have everything. And at that time we had that big camera, it was very heavy, and now we have a smaller one. But we also started with a consumer small camera, and you can also start with your iPhone and everything, that's what you're going to use now. The most important thing is always the content and not the quality. But since this is what we work in and this is what we do full time, we would like to do it as good looking as possible, but that's secondary to the actual content. And we had this kind of camera and it was very heavy, and like the new fashion in filming is to use these DSLRs because they make really good quality films. So you can get yourself such a camera, but it's also quite expensive. But it makes such a good quality movie with this nice Polka, it's called Polka, those things, the lights. And also Obama is using these cameras, so they're very common. And the good thing is that those cameras have big sensor sizes, which makes the image better. I don't want to go more in detail about that, but the problem with them is that they look like a Christmas tree if you put everything on them and it's very heavy. So we are very lucky to have this kind of camera and we like it a lot. It's like that DSLR, but it's a video camera and you can change your optics on it, so you can take them off and put them on. And different optics will have different image quality and texture to them and they look even better and more film-ish. And this handle is an old photo flash handle and it's good to grab the camera with it. And yeah, we're not talking about these. So you can spend a whole lot of money on these lenses and you develop a certain lens last. When you want to have the new lens and the new lens. And then you suddenly find yourself watching lenses on your computer at night, which is a bit too much. And yeah, it can ruin your relationship.  Try to go for a small tripod or a lightweight tripod. What we do is that we go to these old photo stores where they sell these old photo machines. And there you can grab these old ones and they are lightweight and they are pretty good quality. But you can also have these big ones. Don't buy it because it's very heavy and you have to carry it around. About microphones, there are different types of microphones. And the main point is that you have shotgun mics to put on your video camera. And there you can record the sound that is just in front of the camera. So that's what a shotgun mic is good for. And you also have the clip-on microphones which are like this. This is a receiver and then you have also this that you put on your subject.  And you can make your interview like that. And it records only a certain part which is close to the mouth. And you can also use these handheld microphones which are good when there's big noise. You can filter out the big noise around so it's good in a concert or in an area like this. If you saw us we were filming with that because it doesn't matter whether they're talking into another microphone over there. Because then you can put it close and you can record it properly. And it makes sense to put on windscreen if you're outside because otherwise the wind will blow into the microphone. So that's a good tip to do. What we always bring with ourselves is here, this recorder which is recording right now. The good thing about it is that you can put it out here and you record the really decent sound. And you can also plug in chords into it. And you can bring three kinds of chords. Anyway I'll show those chords later with you. So you can plug into these machines at these conferences so you can pick up the proper sound. And you don't have to rely on your camera's sound. So it makes sense to bring with you an external audio recorder. You also should bring batteries with you. Of course monitoring the sound is always very important. So bring earphones with you because you never know whether the phone is ringing in it or not. So that's very important thing to do. If you're very rich you can buy that kind of protector. If you're not that rich you can just bring an umbrella. It works pretty well. And we are not rich but we had some money so we bought that one. And the problem with that was that we were filming St. Petersburg. And it was cold and it was raining. And I was walking around with it and the camera was warm. And the water condensed inside on that plastic part and suddenly drops started to collect inside and started to drop. So we had to stop. So better just go for an umbrella. It's much better. Yeah well you can bring these lens cleaners with you. There's also like it makes sense to have such a headlight like the one that you see on top of that camera. Because in dark environments you can light your subject pretty well. It can be very annoying to light it from very close but it helps a lot. And you should have a computer to edit your video on. And you should have these external drives that store your footage. And like one cat can store up to 500 gigabytes of footage. That's my cat. And so these are the three kind of cords that you should have with you. An XLR, an RC and a jack cord. If you have these then it would work. And also if the technician is helping you then you're doing good. And then you can record good sounds. Now let's go to sorry for being so fast but I only have 20 minutes. Let's go to framing and composition. Of course in poor light the quality of your video will be worse. So you should try to light it properly. Don't film against the sun very much. Because if your subject is here and the sun is in the back it will be a silhouette. So it will be dark. So try to avoid that unless your intention is to do that. So you can cover out, you can make it not recognizable. So you can disguise that person that way. What are like just the basic thing about framing and shot sizes. You can make your subject small and you can close in very closely. So normally when you're doing interviews, normally your shots will be like this medium shot and this medium close up. Because that's what you're most used to and that looks good. When you're making interviews you shouldn't go too close. That would look weird and it would be too intimate and too close. And also in editing you would have trouble with that. When you're making a shot like this or like this, in the editing you can always zoom in more. But if you do it like this you can zoom into the eye. Unless you're very artistic. And short angles, you normally shoot from the eye level. So not from below or from above. That's the standard thing. If you want to make a propaganda movie with someone very strong then you film from below and if you want to look down on someone then you film from above. Normally you try to set your camera to the eye level. And of course you can move around with your camera. Which is commonplace. You can move around like this. You try to move from your full body because then there's less shaking. And you can use, well unless you have this you have to walk. But that's also very hard to use. Like a glide cam or a steady cam. That makes it very stable.  It just requires a little bit of practice. It makes sense to bend your knees when you're moving. So then you can move like a tang. One good tip about using the zoom is that you always want your subject to be in focus. So one good way to do that is to if you have a zoom up take to zoom in on something on the eye, set your focus and then zoom back. And you can be sure that you have proper focus because if you're just setting the focus here maybe you don't see really the details. But if you zoom in a little bit then you see the eye much more and you can zoom out. So that's one very useful tip that we're using. Now one important thing with composition is that there's something called the headroom. This is the space above the head. And you have to be careful with it. He looks really small if it's too big and this doesn't look good if it's too small.  But it should be just a little headroom over there but not too little, not too much. And as you're zooming in then you're cutting the head more and coming in. And there's one thing that helps you a lot which is called the rule of thirds. When you divide an image to three equal parts and put the important things on these lines or in the crossings usually that makes a good composition. For example here this woman, this is the sea level. And for example here this couple is on this crossing. It makes it more harmonic. It makes it look nicer. For example this image you don't really see but this is the sea level. And you put the subject in here so you don't put it to the center. And often you put the eye of the person, eye level on this line. So if you keep this in mind it helps you a lot. Also there's something called lead room which means that there's always more space in front of the person in the direction where they're looking. And when there's a subject moving you should put a little bit more space in front. Because that makes it natural. If she would be here it would look weird and as if she's pushing the frame out. So always leave more room in front of the person in the direction where they're talking to.  That's basically what you need to know about framing and composition. Plus set the focus sharp by zooming in on something. And now you go to an interview place where you try to find a quiet and well lit place. Maybe you unplug the refrigerator because I think it's a rule that if there's a refrigerator it's silent and when you start filming then it will start to buzz. So maybe you should try to think about it. You can also turn off the phone. We always forget to turn off the phone but nowadays it doesn't really matter. But it can be a problem. And when you're filming outside it's always better lit. This is very dark but I can read it. And with Peter we're working in couples. So here's the one who's interviewing and relaxing the interviewee while I'm setting up the camera. And I'm the one who's recording. And when there's too many people in the room that can be annoying. So too many attention on that person can be too much. So it's better to be on our own on the three of us or maybe just a few people. Whether he's standing or standing it doesn't matter. You try to find a good place, a good composition and maybe try to put a relevant background. I don't know a library for a librarian. I don't have to say more examples. Be careful that there's nothing sticking out of their head. So sometimes maybe there's a bunny ear in the background. And they can be rather annoying or like a line here with the neck, cutting the neck. So you have to be careful with that. And then you attach the microphone and check the sound. You set your focus. And most of the time you want the interviewee to look at the reporter and not into the camera. You want them to look into the camera when it's a direct message to the audience. Otherwise they look into the reporter. And normally it's better to make a wider shot as I said before than a very close shot because then you can use that later. Try to arrive in time of course for the interview. You may want to ask for consent, on camera consent, that they consent for this footage to be used but we always forget it. Normally they are giving us interviews and we're friends and it's alright. The fact that they give you an interview is a kind of consent. The first question is normally that we ask for an introduction that they should introduce themselves. And that's good for also for relaxing the interviewees. They very likely can introduce themselves so they get confident. And then they start to feel that they're able to do the interview. So it's a good thing to start with that. And always ask open-ended questions so their answers are not yes and no. And also tell them to include the question in the answer so that you don't have to cut in your question. So they have to repeat that thing because if they don't do it you would have to include the question because you don't know what they're referring to. So that they answer in complete sentences. And be careful when you're interviewing, be careful not to say just nod because it gets into the shot. So that's not good. And when you want to hear good arguments you should always ask counter-arguments. Like if we want to make a movie about needle exchange we may ask does needle exchange facilitate drug use? And then they will explain it. But it's also again it's common sense. You want to hear what you want to show. And you try to think with the head of your grandmother or someone who doesn't know much about that topic. So try to explain it as simple as possible without jargon. So try to avoid jargon. And here in this arm reduction community you always hear things like PLHWA who live with HIV in the PBS group said that the MPG is human being or something. And then you don't understand the word of it. So you have to tell them to say the whole thing. And you can even tell them to repeat it again if they said it like that. And at the end of the interview we always ask if there was anything else that we haven't asked or something that is important to tell and we haven't asked. And there are also other short types. So this was the interview part. And there are other short types. One like the best thing in film sense is when you're recording action someone doing something with someone or something. So we had the interview for example we have an interview with the mother who is talking about her child how much she loves the child.  That tells much more than a simple interview when they're talking about it. So but it's of course harder it takes more time to catch that moment and it requires more follow up and more participation and more relaxation. And we can't always do that but we can sometimes do it and that's always very good. And you can also make so called b-rolls which are kind of shots that illustrate the thing that your subject is talking about. So when you're making an interview about the mother then after the interview you make shots about the child as the child is playing or if the child is not there then you're making shots of pictures of the child. And then you use that as an illustration of what they're talking about so it's more interesting. You can also make b-rolls of the city like here at the conference we went out and made some b-rolls of the city and yeah pictures on the wall a dog or something that makes it interesting. That's the b-roll we call it cut away when you're making shots at the same time when the interview is happening so you're showing the hand or the eye of that person. And you can also make reaction shots which is the reporter so you film the reporter reacting to the interviewee or the audience looking at the presenter for example. And basically that was it about these three topics very quickly. Maybe you have some quick questions in this one and a half minutes that I still have. Any questions? Okay thank you very much. Then we go on to Matt.


It's 4 o'clock, so we are going to begin the meeting of the local historic district commission. It's a continued public hearing on the Amherst media's application for the property at 14B-251 and 14B-250 on Gray and Main Street. We don't have any other new applications for new business before the commission today. So again, this is considered a continuation of the prior meetings. And we will go until 6 o'clock, this is when we will adjourn the meeting. So, and I do want to make the statement just that one of our members, I think it's called the Mollins rule, but it's that Greta Wilcox had to miss two meetings, which happens to all of us from time to time. And the rule is that if absent two meetings on the same application, that you can continue to deliberate with the commission and ask questions and be part of all the discussions. But unfortunately, she would have to recuse herself from voting on this application. But everyone should be aware of that. Okay, so I think we will proceed as we usually do with the applicant making a presentation on new information that they have for the commission. And will you- So I would like to- Oh, sure, okay, yeah. Good evening, everybody, and welcome to 2020, a new year for all of us, hopefully a good year. Dear members of the Locustal District Commission, I am not a lawyer, nor an architect. I am the person responsible for the successful transition of the 44 year old independent nonprofit media center known as Amherst Media. My name is Jim Leska, I'm the executive director. The transition is from our current facility at 246 College Street, our home base for the past 39 years, to a new facility to be built upon the land we purchased in 2013 at Amier Gray Street. To prepare myself for this arduous task, I read as much as I could about the Dickinson Historic District and the bylaws that helped define your responsibilities and guidelines. The intention behind the bylaws are well-defined, but leave room for interpretation and judgment for those on the commission to decide the meaning of such words as appropriate. While others may see the collaborative work that has been generated between the commission and Amherst Media as being counterproductive and out of line with the roles and responsibilities of the commission, we do not. We have embraced the process while trying to reach a collective understanding and vision as to what actually meets the intent of the bylaw. It has not always been easy or without disagreements. This process is a healthy historic district to make the best decision it can. One that reflects the intent of the bylaws and certify or deny appropriateness. As the applicant for this certificate, the certification, we believe we have submitted a concept design that has incorporated many of the commission's requests and suggestions. We believe it is inappropriate and reflects the residential as well as the commercial elements within the immediate community. I will now introduce, reintroduce Bill Gillan to present those designs to you, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You had mentioned in the submission you sent that you had a spreadsheet with all kinds of detail about all the things. I've not seen that spreadsheet. I had not submitted it to you yet, it's not completed until upon the liberations that are completed here. I see, you would suggest that it existed. It does exist, yeah. I said I've been working on it to have that prepared. It's existed. It's existed for nothing. No, I don't believe I ever stated that I would be submitting that to you. That's okay. Is that a spreadsheet of all the items that- And time and dates of when we came before you, what was suggested, things that we did alter. And so it's a way to flow and it was felt that it would be very helpful for us and for you to show the amount of work that went into the deliberation that this was not by any means. How you responded, how the applicant responded to your request. So it's a big job. It's a huge job. I'm Bill Gillan, I'm the architect, and John Smith is here with me, and Clay is a non-graduate at UMass. John wants to be an architect, and he was referred to me by the head of the architectural department as someone who could help us out, because he could do this using the Rhino program, which we don't have. But what I want to do, who would like to do, well we'll do, would be to have Clay quickly review a couple of the views that you saw last week. So that we can show you our proposed elevations. You can see how they relate or don't relate to what you saw last night. We'll also be showing you a revised plan, you probably haven't heard, showing how we have modified the plan a little bit. And then lastly, we'll show you the elevations that you can see from the public way. We also have with us details, and we have a square footage graph that was requested by Nate, showing the relationship of our property building to the neighbors and other buildings in the community. So, go ahead, Nate. I mean, I'm Clay, as Bill said, I'm an undergraduate in the architectural department, and this is pretty much just a massing model of the current scheme. We have the proposed Amherst Media Center with the immediate neighborhood and surroundings in the buildings. So, we have a few different options for seeing it from all different angles. Could I ask, this is what you're proposing now, or is this the same again something before you revised it again? It's the same as last week. It's the same, okay, that's it, okay, sorry. Yeah, this is the same exact model that we saw last week. When we show you the new elevations, you probably will say, well, what did it look like, but what was I thinking? I thought, okay, I got it. So, it's just to refresh you. Okay. This is all these. So, none of this has changed? Correct, yeah. This is all the same as you saw last week. So, it's the same. Just a refresher. It's the same footing. I think that's in the corner, like from Gray Street, from Main Street, looking down Gray Street. So, it's the same, those like pictures matching existing pictures on Gray Street, and throughout the remainder of the meeting, if anyone wants to see this kind of model from a certain spot. Yes, could you show the North Elevation, please? The North Elevation. That is a different model, by the way. It's different from what I'm looking at here. Those are the new elevations. The model that we're looking at up there has got a different there. I mean, I like these better, but it's different. Oh, a lot different. What we're going to show you is the proposed elevations which followed that, and naturally we'll modify a little bit. That's the exact same presentation we saw last time. Last time. Okay. This is the North Elevation, I can also kind of turn. Yeah, Matt, I'm sorry. This is the south. No, this is the north. This is where the parking lot is. Okay. Is that what you were hoping to see? Without the houses and stuff? Yes, I wanted to see the parking lot there. This is where the parking lot area would be. I mean, you enter in that. Okay. Can you show the floor plan? The floor plan. I don't believe I have the youth floor plan. I think we have. John has in his pocket. Did you put any of these in? I printed them. I have it all. Want to show it, Nate? Yeah. We haven't done a rendered north elevation. We did the gray street and main street and triangle street focused on that. Sure. I was just trying to be getting to put together a list of asks for our next meeting so that we don't miss anything. The sort of thing you're talking about except from the other point of view. That is the things we're going to need. Gotcha. 1-6-20 plan. Right down here. At our last meeting, it was concerned about the floor plan. There it is. Yeah, thank you. We have the studio over here. And we were discussing with Nuri and mentioned it's not going to have any windows on gray street. So we said, oh, well, we should have thought of that. And we've simply flipped that around. So we put the studio over here, same roof and everything. And we put things over here that can use windows. So it's much better. There's the main entrance and here's the entrance from the north. Excuse me, could I ask another question? And that is, there had been a considerably earlier version where you had a very elegant entrance to the main entrance from Main Street. And I don't know whether that just doesn't show up in those drawings or whether that's somehow disappeared. Probably somehow forgotten about and disappeared in part because we're focusing on getting an overall approval of the elevations, the location of the site, and the approximate elevations which we've shown you. We can always do that. That's sort of like a detail for our next review, which I hope would be. When we've finished our engineering and we'll come back, or when we're 90% done, about ready to go for a permit. And at that point, we can show you these or develop that if we think we want to show that. If we want to do that. I'm not sure. I don't know how the commission feels about this. We'll discuss this. We'll discuss this because it may be. See, that's not popping out. And this was not popping out. Yes, we know that. We'll have to have a discussion because I think we have different requirements and a different time frame from what the planning board would do. So that coming back to us with something that appears to you to be a detail, but that appears to some of us to perhaps be a deal breaker is not a very wise idea. We are not issue a certificate of appropriateness. We wouldn't deny it. We just can't issue it until, you know, those details are. Those aren't minor details. Yeah, we will. And what you're, I hope where you're going is that we would then continue working on this, knowing that it's not going to be thrown out. Right. Exactly. And we can come back and revise that. Fine. But we would not have issued a certificate of appropriateness. All we need is a certificate of enthusiasm. You encourage us to carry on. We would love to come as close, you know, maybe by the end of this month as close to what as many details as you can give us. And then maybe we can issue the certificate of appropriateness, but continue. But we'd still be coming back. I suggest we'd still be coming back. You would still be coming back because you wouldn't have, you may change things. So getting back to the plan. We put the studio over here so we could get windows around here. We have a very nice glass section over here looking out over the meadows. Okay. The plan is laid out so that you can look right through the whole building from one end to the other. This is glass. This is glass. The glass door is here. And you can look through going this way. And there are no ramps involved anywhere. The grade is worked out. So you come in here. You go up by air. So the water doesn't go around and come in.  We have a stone wall up here, which we would just extend right back. And we would put a low stone wall over here, all this high, separating the grass and the planting area from the parking lot.  This is a handicapped parking spot.  We need to get that approved by the planning board that they'll go along with these. We can recommend that. Let's look at the site plan. Here's the site plan. We talked about putting some hedge here. We think of a naturalized evergreen. Could be holly. Could be boxwood. Could be an evergreen. And over here, this big axis site, that's where the infiltration or the drainage bed is. But it's not anything you'll see as we showed you last time. It doesn't project. Excuse me, where is the berm? There is no berm. I thought the... Oh, it's a berm. We demonstrated that last week. I think he still has it. You can see it with and without the berm. But I'm wondering where it is. It's here. It's where the square is. It just blends in. You'll never notice. There's a question. From Main Street, it's just a slow walkway up to the entryway. It's not considered a ramp. From Main Street to the entrance, it's just a walkway. It's not a ramp. No, there's no ramp. Naturally, it's got a pitch to it. I don't want to invite water from here from running into the building. And is the setback still, it's 20 feet on Main Street? Maybe John knows. The east side or the west side? On the east-south side. Yeah, southeast or southwest? Oh, at the point that it's closest to Main Street. Here? Yeah. The area is from 10 foot 4 to 12 foot 7 to the edge of the grass. And there's a sidewalk. And then there's a median strip. And then there's a street. So what's the setback from the property line? Again. From the property line, it's 12 foot 7. 12 foot 7. Here? Follow the other end. It's 10 foot 4 on that end. So 10 foot from the sidewalk? 10 foot from the property line. The property line is setback some from the sidewalk. Bill, point out the width of the sidewalk. Let me just get up here for a second. This is the dimension that I was giving you. Right to here. That's the sidewalk. And to here. Now the sidewalk travels further in both cases. And there's also a median strip here. So you can, I can say it's 12 foot 7 from here to here. But then it's probably another 8 or 10 feet to the asphalt street. Okay. I guess we can go to the elevations. Yes. Are there questions right here? Main street elevation. The main entrance with or without three columns. Roman columns. This is a, well these are the, I forget what the line is. These are glazed areas. Which would be kind of fun to have some places that are relatively in close offices and others which are like the glass offices. I wonder if you see what it extends for there. This is one flat piece that starts from here and goes straight up. And then it starts from here and goes up. But it's the same roof line. It's the same. But you'll see it when we turn and look this way. Is it interrupted at all? Is it designed at all? It's not interrupted. There's a wing going out and a wing coming this way. We'll show you on the other, the other two elevations. Interrupted by a single piece of plane. Do you think that would be wood? What material? Shingles. Okay. Gray. Any area for solar collectors? It's a perfect solar collector roof. But out of mind, purview and yours too. So I just had a question about the glazing. So is that all going to be clear glazing? Yes. But because you know, although the commission looks at what's visible from the public way. I mean if there are things on the inside of the back glazing, it's so big that that's under their jurisdiction too. For instance, if you're going to end up having blackout on some of the windows or a sign, for instance, that's going to be viewed out from outside, that's under the jurisdiction of the commission too. So I just want to make sure that it's not... That's not intended. They're betrayed, I'm sure. Okay. I just want to make sure that there isn't any... No, we're not selling something. Maybe with the paint or you know like that. The bar is open? No. Do we have another elevation? Yes. It requires me. Let's see. This is the one that you see from Triangle Street. And again, that glass that's around. We're kind of making a play of this kind of glass and punctured windows. Here's the roof of this section and it has a little roof overhang here where that's where the machinery will be. Here's the height of the stone, the wall. This is maybe the height of every green shrubs. Wait, that's the height? Could the shrubs be... This is my pet peevee. Prior to just to shield the cars. That's the only purpose we put them there. We're not going to tell them to stop growing. The cars are right there. And the other side. The other side of it, yeah. But there's the ground sloping down. Oh, okay. So you only... Did you have a question, Bruce? What material are you proposing, or do you imagine proposing for the infill of the pediment area there? That triangle of glass base. Here and here? In that triangle there. Yeah. And beyond. And here, too. What's that all is? Smooth stucco or smooth boards, not unlike the end of the Emily Dickinson house. Yeah, we wanted to change the texture now. So it could be stucco. It could be smooth. It'll be solid board. Solid board. It might be a little feature molding. That's an inch and a half piece that goes up. Where you see that line there. Fastened with number 10 finishing nails. Galvanized that over there. Yeah. Let's see if we can get another one. And here's the view from Gray Street. There's a little bit of a... of a grass coming down. This is the gray. There's the stone wall here and here. And down behind this is the studio. You can see all the way through to the other side, where you saw glass. I thought that was an important feature. I also made the corridor six feet wide so that two people can walk across. Down in the car. Nate might be telling me it's got too much weight. Should space inside. People should walk on and on down in the car. There's visible activity that would be seen. It's an institution. It's an ongoing programmatic space. So you'll be showing us at a later time the design of the door from the driveway? Oh yeah. They'll be on the drawings that we'll be presenting shortly. So the planning board will... I just wanted to get this biode and on the way and go back to the main street one. I mean, yeah, the main street. You might say, well, can we do more study on this? I'll be happy to do that. Yes, because we had said before that we liked the staggered effect of the western side pushing back to a certain extent. And then there was a nice walkway up to the entrance as well as a stairwell into the entrance. So it made a rather elegant facade from Main Street, which that facade I think had been a concern on our part. And so I was sorry when it seemed that it was here yesterday and gone today. Yeah, we worked to get rid of the stairs because no one wants them really. Okay, I understand. But you do have a walkway. And it goes straight in, which isn't all that elegant, but it goes straight in. But we have room here to plant, that's for sure. And it's a better solution for creating an entry there. You can control the snow. The previous was over in the corner and we have to do that to keep them from being killed by the Appalachian. So this is better from broader considerations. Yeah, I look like that. I don't think we have details. Maybe you could just flash on that. I don't expect to do details. One, two, three. This is the thought has been put into it and how we're going to do it. But that is stuff that's the basis for the working drawings that we'll be working on. But this is the kind of... This has all the information, as your question, smooths, stucco, corner board, 12-inch corner board trim. It's all there, but it's incorporated in the working drawings. It'll be more understandable. Maybe the other. Now, there's a certain deceit to that 3D drawing you held up. Yes. It's much more representational. Yes. These are sketches, but the same elements that you see in that drawing. Eyelesters, the skirt boards, the trim are all meant to be in these details. We haven't changed anything. We just haven't redid another pretty drawing like that. We're prettier than these. It wasn't so much that it was pretty. It was the staggering and the entrance that was in more detail. That was my only... Well, that became one long building. We've broken up the volumes. Yes, I know that. And that, indeed, helps to disguise or help the sitting on the site. Did you want to talk about the size of the building, Nate?  Well, I think the commission had asked for what's the footprint, what's the relative size compared to the surroundings. It's part of the criteria, you know, if it's appropriate. So, if you want to speak to that, what percentage... We did a graphic. Thank you. A quick graphic which shows in the yellow box is the gross square feet of each building of the neighbors right off of the tax cards. Tax cards. I was asked to do gross square foot. Oh, that's what... That's a column. And so, we're neither the largest nor the smallest building. The ones that are blackened in are the buildings I calculated or tabulated here for you. So, it demonstrates that we're in the middle of the pack, not a huge building, not a small building for the site. You're at 70? Emily Dickinson is considerably larger and, of course, the dimensions are almost double. So, you're at... 71. 71 with an asterisk, so you know that. So, the finish shows both in the black, what the footprint looks like. So, you got a sense of what the footprint of the building looks like. And then the number is the gross square feet of the building. The building next door, next door to us is 7666 and we're 7100. And then the one across the street is 5,000. Emily Dickinson is 9500. This building is 10,000. Billy, the gross means that you've got about 2,800 or something of... you're counting about 2,800 square feet of... Attic. That's because this is gross and these are all gross numbers. And this is not the complete attic. It's six foot high and higher. Not the... They don't count that. It's inaccurate. Do you have the size of the women's center? I filled it in, but I couldn't find it. I don't think they pay taxes or something. Oh, that's it. Of course. I don't want to embarrass them. I'm sure it's legal. It's probably similar to the... house in the store. This is gross square feet that would be all floor levels and everything else. You just get a sense of the volume of the building and then you see the footprint. So, was the footprint... I mean, we... I thought it was... 4,000. 4,000. So that's... Yes. Okay. I think the Hills House is also like... 30... You know, it's close to 4,000. But it's not... But the 10,000 is... I can't calculate it. See, it doesn't tabulate that on the... Yeah. Okay. This is very helpful. A footprint. A property card. You can find more on the property record. I wasn't asked. I was asked to do the gross square footage. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Do we? So this is... Yeah. We'd love to carry on and get into the job, really do the final drafting and have the engineers lay out the structural... That's the best part of the job to come. And we're eager to get on it, but we didn't want to get too far along. We didn't want to get along at all in case the list wasn't acceptable and so far. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions? Yes. I wonder, is there an ongoing relation with Great Country Timber Frames on this project? I don't know. Not at this moment. There's not a disconnection and there's not a connection, meaning it's in limbo at the moment.  Is that correct? I mean, they do... They cut to design. They design and cut to the... specifications of the project. So the reason I asked is of course we've been dealing with Mr. Gillan with all of the details of all of this. And if Great Country Timber Frames was going to be involved at all, it would be helpful. No, they're working for me. They would be a general contract. Okay, got it. I'll mess with me. That's a good question for clarification, but no, there is no direct link at the moment. They could bid on it to be general contract. No, we're just saying that you would show like windows and everything. They'll support it. They'll come with you. Right. Okay. We have to approve it. Right. Good. Here. So, I guess my question is, I guess to see if we're all on the same wavelength, that you were hoping by the end of this meeting that we would be able to say we're comfortable with what you've presented and with that. And then, so I guess this is also my question. If then you go to the planning board, does that leave the application open? Yeah. So, Bill, my, you know, my concern really is that if the commission isn't comfortable making a decision based on the information presented in terms of detail, you say things could change and you want to go through the planning board process and then come back, that means we have to, the commission needs to leave the hearing open for potentially months, maybe even until May because the planning board process may not be done until then. And so, I don't, you know, I don't think that's the right process because, you know, if someone, this is a meeting that means the board has to be here and information has to be continued and so essentially we've kept the same application going for almost a year. And so, you know, an applicant can withdraw without prejudice before there's a decision made by the board and you can always submit an application again. And so, it's not negating what's been done to this part up until this time. You know, there's already been some consensus that the commission likes the massing of a lot of the design but it allows you to go to the planning board and move forward and if there's any big changes, you'd have to come back anyways. And so, I don't want to come back. And you can send something to the planning board saying that, I mean, we decide that we, you know, or in consensus, we have a vote whatever that we send a memo to the planning board saying that we are in support of this, you know, what they've presented so far and we request the parking we need women. Right. I think that would be helpful for the planning board if the commission, you know, has agreed that they like the massing, the siting of the building, the proportions and, you know, explaining that to the planning board would be helpful in their review because, you know, they're going to have, you know, they might ask for the commission to make comments but they'll have, you know, they might have all separate set of opinions, you know, they have their parking requirements which has been reduced so we want to explain that. Yeah, we would go in person. Right. But that's the reason why it's been reduced is we requested it to have it be an appropriate design for the local district. You know, it's really the commission in terms of how comfortable the members are if they think there's enough information and what's the time frame when you're saying you have working drawings but, you know, is it really after the planning board and that could, like I said, be months or is it, you know, is it by the end of this month that you don't need drawings? It'll take us two or three months because planning board is only final, final preliminary. This is the other question. What if it's open but they have nothing to come back to us to until May? We wouldn't keep meeting about it. Well, no, but I mean, we'd have to continue so we could pick a date in June, for example. We could What we want to avoid also is having a member miss two meetings and then you could have that nobody, you know, stays open for a year but if we, if we're not, if it's not on the agenda for a certain number of months then they, can that be done? It can. It's just, you know, I mean, until June, is it a fair process to continue it now for five months? I'm hoping that, you know, for instance, that all the commissioners will stay the same if someone or two leave and all of a sudden we have a quorum issue, you know, it becomes a bigger deal and it's time for voting. That is the issue. So if we get a new commissioner, could they be part of this? Not just continue hearing it. Right. They couldn't. I think we're shooting for March or not June. To come back. But the planning board process, I mean, that could take, you know, you should say, you know, there's so much time before even an application you'll see before you can get into a public hearing. They might take two meetings for the planning board to, They say have more on their agenda, but they have more than we do. Right.  Wow. That's just my guess. We wouldn't. Of course, that's because there's a time to get on and it's a time for them to write it up. Right. But if we had encouragement, we would just be doing our drawings expecting that they'll be approved or generally approved. So we wouldn't stop there. So when we come back here with the drawings even before, I guess that's, I mean, Yeah. What? What? Of delaying until after the planning board is finished. Well, just the only, it's going to, they're not going to be doing providing the detail that we might feel we need. Well, we definitely, that's, we can't decide that. No, but do you, we have to decide if we feel that we have enough detail to issue the certificate. That's what we were saying. If we don't have enough detail there's a concern about just keeping the meeting open until they go to the planning. But they're saying this. Before we get to them. I tell this to the living themes that I think the commission is interested in seeing more detail on, I think, Ariane might have, she's got a similar this one, they might be some more. So, Bruce, what we're saying is that they, if they're not going to invest in tweaking all those details and coming back with, you know, more refined plans until they go to the planning board process and offer our comments today, but I don't see the point of having to continue to meet if they're going to change, you know. Well, that's, that's a myth which is not, which is in their control. But the other point is if we share this, we might think what we're being advised is to request that by, I'd say the end of January, so that we can close this application. Either we close it by issuing the certificate, not issuing the certificate, or they withdraw it without prejudice, which means they come back and we pick up a little left off with what's... We're not going to withdraw without prejudice. My name's Michael Pell, and I'm just here to help with the legal stuff, okay. And what we need, I believe, and I think, Bill, correct me if I'm wrong, we can't go to the planning board without something clear. That's what the certificate is all about. And of course, the certificate can have reasonable conditions. It can be subject to approval by the planning board. It can also provide if we have to make some other changes that we must come back to you. But what we cannot do, okay, is go to the planning board with nothing but what amounts to a wink and a not. That was okay. Mr. Pell, I do not. Oh, good. Thank you. So, I... Okay. What we are saying if I may clarify at least my understanding is that we want to see if we can arrive at consensus today or the end of January of what we endorse and support of what you've already achieved. We would say that in a memo to the planning board. Oh, good. Thank you. We would say Amherst Media has proposed this, this, this, the massing and all the things that you mentioned. And we endorse that. We cannot go the final step of giving a certificate of approval until the detail is done because that is our regulatory constraint. And so if the timing for Mr. Gillan is that he is unable to do everything at one time then it makes sense for him to do with us what we can do right now in terms of agreeing on what we support do the next step with the planning board in which we've written to them to say we endorse this. We can't take the final step until a subsequent time because by regulatory requirement we need to look at detail. Okay? That's what we do with every group that comes to us for approval. We look at detail because because we had an applicant that said at the top of the columns they were going to have a certain design. We issued a certificate of appropriateness. They didn't think that they could meet that design. They had to come back.  We're just saying that what we can't do is keep the meeting open. So that gets to the second point. There's a distinction between what we can do on behalf of the planning board before we pick up the post-planning board stage of this and what we can do as a commission with people coming on and off the commission and if we hold the vote open for months and months and months we will not have a quorum of people who have been here for the discussion. So there may be that the most advantageous decision would be to decide where we are come up with a consensus statement and then close without prejudice. And we can be very explicit about this so that we will then pick it up again when we're ready. But that means that when we pick it up again whoever is here for the discussion is able to vote on the final decision. Whereas some of us will be traveling during the winter. We'll be traveling during the spring.   We are very concerned about having a quorum because again in terms of regulation a person can only miss one meeting. Or we could give you provide a list and some of its items that have been on the list of what we need to see so we really have a good picture of the building that you could bring back to us by the end of the month and then we might be able to issue a certificate of appropriateness and then if you make changes you would come back to us and request the changes. I think that approach that's why I think there's a breach that we're crossing that we don't know is that a crossing? Can I ask a question? We cannot present you a virtually real picture of the building. That's not possible. If you look at those large detail drawings and if you look at these place which has not one note on it how do those details how do these details conflict? We saw that we had slides that were much more detailed than that. Well we weren't giving those. But we definitely We asked for them we weren't giving them. I don't know. The question is the question is and Bruce you know the elements are described there you submitted an outline spec which said what the materials were that's a blow up detail of certain particulars of the building now if you want to see that as a virtually real photo representational building we can't do it that would cost a fortune and it wouldn't allow any institution to build anything on that site. They're non-profit. We could give plenty more of this. I'll argue that I think that we should be we should imagine or become sufficiently confident in our abilities to be able to take a detail like this and see it in relation to a smaller scale for elevation. We can do that for this. Then what John says what the other says is that if they provide dimensions for the items here that they noted and maybe take a and maybe make these onto larger sheets. There is a scale. That's the scale of three quarter inch. I know the big scale is very useful. And so if we add these with the data and maybe material samples or maybe we we say that one of the conditions is that the let's say subject to approval of the material sample for it. So that could be a condition perhaps. I mean my thought though John with here it was a JPEG that you sent me that may have been to scale but when we printed it's not to scale so if we actually put it on a sheet with title block and everything we have dimensions here we don't know the size of the glazing I don't know if this is the scale anymore and it would be great to have then a profile showing is there any relief in this. So you know and on the other section a simple you know profile showing you know what's the relief of the pediment and the fascia and anything in the front with some dimensions we're not we no one's ever said it needed to be a photo realistic montage what we're asking for is enough information for the commission to know to say okay what is this door actually going to look like is it recessed is everything just flush or is there you know some some relief here what is the glazing in the treatment here you say you know just glass pane and a panel well a description here beyond that and you know I didn't see any description here so again we're not at least places a different context so it has well yes the commission saw what they saw they needed to do to make a decision there what I'm hearing is we saw it flashed up we actually saw the lights that were going outside we just had you know comments here so what we're saying is can these be improved with the comments from the commission they're comfortable making a decision so you can take a hand drawing and maybe with more annotation and dimensioning the commission is comfortable right I mean is that fair Bruce to what you're saying I think so I mean with windows and doors for example we could ask for a product for dinner yes and so we would know the product and that would relieve the most you know described but I think because of the scale that were sectional through the measurement through the roof out of the hang possibly through the window head and so forth vertically through the head and sill and and there might be one or two other locations like that my sense is that we can we can create a list I've already made it pretty good to have that from my point of view that would give them the opportunity to provide what we need I'm you know I'm I'm leaving here in a month actually in five weeks that's one whole new cycle critically although it's really it's really it's really it was necessary but um great but it's it's really it's really it's really it's really it's really it's really it's really it's really it's really it's we had a 24 by 36 inch sheet hard lined digitally drawn with all the elevations everything on it that you could scale we haven't changed the concept of of what we're using to do this building and this we thought would be more exploratory more explanatory explanatory for you then going to that 24 by 36 drawing on this screen which winds up to be 12 inches by 24 inches or 12 inches by 8 inches and you can't see what you're talking about we submitted what you're asking for and it was totally passed over I think I don't remember comments on it but see here yeah I think I would try that again so I mean you know this is helpful like we said but we don't the commission we can't get a sense for this in terms of how this relates to anything else in the building how is you know this release work it's down here but on the big drawing we have a the elevation shows exactly I think I'm saying you have a lot of information but if the commission has questions I think there's more information that could be added to this to try to get them to a decision making point and so if you know if they don't seem comfortable you know like I'm saying some more dimensioning or a sectional profile but after this time and maybe that so well even if it's just a matter of putting it all in one place if you issue a certificate of appropriateness it's attached to yeah the document application that's not in one place yeah we've got to mention that we've done it already yeah season it to be yeah you ask specifically for an artistic elevation yeah no no we appreciate that that's why we lost our elevation because the artist John was making a beautiful but so it all has to cut we actually drew it in one place that's where we actually drew it digitally to be able to hand draw over for the we have all those drawers we have it all it would take us two hours to composite on a sheet but there'd still be a lot of questions we don't want to do working drawing with dimensions and that's why I'm trying to moderate the direction that my colleagues seem to may be going in which I thought was a bridge that wasn't being too far because I don't think it's beyond you to provide this information in a relatively short time and I think you should give that would be our preference that would absolutely be the preference I had simply heard Mr. Gillan saying this process and then the planning board process that being until March my worry and then you did want to keep it open and that's and I don't want to see a new commission either we want to we know you guys right so we would prefer to see yeah like that all in one place so we could make a decision before who goes to Australia well ideally I mean why not yeah and you would too if you don't want to have to read I mean it'd be nice right and if you're saying it's something you know we could set a date January that's works okay well we have to have the comments today we need we need today so can we try for that yes why don't you start with your can we can can we yeah do we want to how many discussions well do we want to take public comment and then you know there's something we probably yeah the question would be would the public client be informed by right by this okay so I would say too if I if I was doing what I usually do in this situation I would have a put a child on the wall and I would write all this down so that everybody would see it and work on it as a group but we don't have that a little bit Bruce because we're having oh I'm sorry I mean the mic is coming to you but that's for the audio oh that's no that's something else well let's let's do I think that we need a north elevation mm-hmm I there's a couple of things in here that are personal expressions which you all might disagree with but I would hope that the trim stock that is used cornerboards freezeboards plinth boards casings for windows and doors and so forth would be five quarter stock which is a little thicker than what you mostly see and that means that the it's basically behind it it just has it gives it a meatier I don't know that's a technical term but it's probably understood look so I would hope for that but number three would be to provide the sizes of all the trim pieces and there are many of them and it's it's a fairly rich designed detail here so that just have the the material sizes noted for each of these pieces of trim I think we know the material on the three quarter inch wall section yes yes or anyway really so long as it's so long as it's clear if you do a trim schedule I don't think you'll want to know and you could just note it on here I think would be the clearest for everybody the pediment material will we've already determined that I think it could be it's tongue and groove material flat or stocko if we have a preference we should state it the the oculus window I think it would be nice to have a product submittal on that so we know what it looks like and also there's a the casing trim around that again a personal preference is that it should be wider so that that thing sits if it's going to sit in the end of that pediment it should have a presence and I see why it would be a small window but it could be made to look bigger by a substantial annulus of trim so number nine would be the the entry doors so an elevation a detailed elevation and a product submittal the same with the windows so that's the oculus the entry doors and the windows then the detail sections that we would talk to complement these these are detailed elevations so some detail sections through the pediment through the roof overhang vertically through the window from head to sill there might be some similar around the window I'm not sure whether there might be other details but that would seem to be the ones that are most obvious and that comes to the end of my list but I'm sure it's not an exclusive an exhaustive list why would there be sections and this is not working going I can see doing one section it's a section like this bill that just I mean here for example you've got the overhangs and so forth it would be nice the dimensions of those so that we can see so the sections through this you said sections and I think I mean think that they were to see a sheet of wall sections I said detail sections like the detail elevations so you've got you've got they can be hand drawn like this as long as they are to scale and communicate accurately the impression they're all to scale you just don't know what scale it is and I don't need because the camera will do that they complage well anyway so that the overhangs are known and so forth and that that is all I have in my list that I could think of for the moment and again that's what has to be attached to a certificate so it's what we do yeah do you have any yes I've got some so I would like to see the design of the parking lot the entrance from the parking lot the lighting in the parking lot the screening of the parking lot so the cars aren't visible from the women's center I believe the 14 grey street has a kind of a stone yes and so I would like to know how your separation blends with their stone their stone because I would like to know how it matches and just extend okay yes well I'd like to see that I mean I'd like to know that that was going to happen because I think it would be more it would be more attractive yes to the material samples I do want to know whether the door off main street is recessed or flushed okay sorry some because I did a lot of detail last night excuse me yes what will line the parking lot area maybe I think we already said that in terms of women's center sorry what was that you mean line screen what will line in the sense of screen yes oh okay that wasn't to the the shrub that's it there's no more fencing it's just the landings yes yes okay okay because I think it's from that women's center point yes is there a question this is a question about a question about the material used to enclose the storage tanks is that something that we need to consider I'm not sure how much there are clothes anymore okay the roof overhang okay and we have the columns and we're going to put a fence at least between the parking and that so the cars don't drive into that okay but that'd be a fence and we'll show that and north elevation have we talked about how much of the concrete of the retaining walls will be exposed have we talked about that no we said it'll be all stone all stone okay I'm just checking my old notes against I've got retaining new info here as well because I've got notes from every one of our meetings of kind of you know asks okay sorry just okay I think this is a lot of this is repetitious sorry yes unless I have a brainstorm I'm done okay thank you do any yeah I don't have anything to add to that we might as well be if you go back to the main street elevation would be to show more of the property and context so from the south elevation so you see now you can see the retaining wall to the west you know the left of the building it doesn't really show where it ends on the property so you know to me it would be helpful to say you know where is Gray street on the one end and where does the property line on the other to know the whole context of the design so you know how far does the wall move on you would be able to see the building we did that there aren't any you know you would see 14 of Gray street and the rest of them that actually might benefit you to see the rest of the buildings behind you because they're much taller but I think to me the question is where does that where does that section cut off on the west end is that you know where is the hills house there in that in that section that was the flyover but I think but the wall though is not very the visible wall is new to the west of the building before the wall yes was you know flush with the at the western end so it's just you know it's in the site plan you can see it I just want you know I'm pointing out something here for the permission to you know be aware of it goes about 10 feet from here if you know my only other thought too is though you could provide a visual from the north would be more obvious yeah this hauntings that are screening the vehicles which we've already discussed which will also screen that wall right so that's probably not accurate because there would be bushes the bushes that are beyond the house you'll see them right aren't there but the bushes that's where they would be yeah should be there but aren't there and it looks like before the lighting was all under softened everything it doesn't look like there's any external light posts or anything quiet to provide lighting so we haven't addressed yet figuring and we'll fix that later if we have lighting you're not going to see it it's going to be in the softened I'm going to do something to hide it from you one thing with the site plan I think the handicap parking space needs to be moved closer to the back door so where it is now it's right off Gray Street it's allowed to be within 200 feet although the building commissioner looked at and he said if it's available you could move it without losing any spaces I'm just I'll bring it over and you can show me well because then the handicap sign would need to be it's just a matter of you could if you move the location you would hide the sign so that's not the sign right now at the end of the handicap space is actually something you'd see from Main Street it would be you see the back of a sign whereas if you put it behind the building in space one and two you wouldn't lose parking but you wouldn't have a general I'll try to do that I'll try to study it but we did try it but it wastes a bunch of space because of the eight foot next to it and we can't give that up somewhere but we'll try again but I think right next to the mechanical equipment there's not a space looks like there's five feet and then space one so you almost have an unloading aisle without a little you know the rest I mean I don't it's really a commission for questions I think it's really I think the you know I agree with Bruce more explanation of the details you know the drawings would be really helpful let me stop you maybe excuse me Michael see that I think is precisely the problem a little more detail on the buildings what on earth does that mean that's exactly it you too for thank you so much because you too exactly listed out precisely what details you thought we needed to provide I would like to think that was hopefully very helpful and we do that I reference Bruce yes we do that in collaboration with our staff member I understand I'm just trying to point out the difference between saying a little more detail which isn't helpful and what you two did which was a God send for which I thank you both I reference Bruce's comments I'm not going into the I'm just saying what Bruce said in terms of more detail I'm sorry I didn't understand that and really that's up to the other commissioners right at that question so I I'm not sure I don't know either I have a question for maybe for you Nate I would also be interested in colors but I'm not sure whether we have the purview to be interested in colors or was that an internal conversation amongst us that we can decide whether we want to colors kind of out it is kind of out okay let's stop there but material samples but material samples are not out it's exempt from you know from review so I think you know material is in by color is so yeah we can't to color them we'll show you a few pushes but we're not supposed to look at them either you're right about that well the commission as a it's funny the commission is done traditionally landscaping is exempt when it's used as a screen if it's something more than just a planting it can be under review okay I just feel that personally this is something we well that we should do and we really I I don't think any of us want to prevent the women's center from being able to continue to host events so I think that's I know that's why I say none of us do none of us do and that's why I think everybody's okay normally maybe we wouldn't although we did do the screening once before for a house where they were Amherst college resident that was going to have a permanent dumpster and we said that had to be shielded from the neighbors any concerns on peace place yeah yeah they moved the house so the trees wouldn't come down but yeah did any of the commissioners any other questions Bruce do you said you might have a question no I did it already possibly we should go through the commission and see where we all are right now or should we do public comments I think we should do public comments so yeah there's how many we have to get through I'm going to start at this end first okay Ms. Greenbaum just identify who you are I'll tell the Greenbaum North Amherst and I'm going to put it to this project I find the entry on the main street side rather ambiguous looking at this plan looking at this facade I can't tell whether there's a protocol or whether there's a porch I don't understand quite what the peaked roof is over the door is there some kind of a protocol with a roof that connects with the big roof or is it inset and then if that's the case I don't understand what the parliament is there that to me is very unclear it looks like it's inset and the it is on the picture it looks like it's very calm so it's very confusing that's a that's a previous right the picture you showed today this one this is fun that one that one to me but that's bigger then where is that roof this is fully full this is there's no stick out it doesn't stick out from here this is recessed and about to be in oh that's a recess so the top doesn't stick out and the top goes through straight and you're looking at the foundation plan which is pulled in not the roof plan the roof plan goes through so what I'm looking at that triangle is that in it's not up it's here right and it's not a column so if you look at the maybe the triangle is the same plane as the wall the west elevation might show it right there's another the floor plan shows it so this is the same plan look at the floor plan oh well alright I can't look at them all at once the my age is showing my other question if you have no purview over the color what's to prevent them to come in with something like purple siding with pink mountains actually I mean that's the answer it's something to consider no no it specifically says in our bylaw that we can that color is out of our purview and that's something that people actually fear about local historic districts that will be telling people what color they can and can't paint their house so it specifically says we can't as a member of the committee with Maureen who thought this through time through the we deliberately did that so that it would pass because if they if I would felt though they had to get their house color approved every time they wanted to paint their house it would have been never gone through now I wish you had done that you asked this is the dotted line is the roof line and this is the recess in about five feet okay so just quickly about the color at the very beginning of this process actually had a conversation with our capital campaign manager with the women's club about helping to actually choose the color based on some of the complementary colors around the area so that's something we've always kept in mind and tried to consult with people with so good that's good we would respect that yeah good so going around the room yes hi I'm Felicity Harzway I represent Harzway I spoke to you before I guess I'm a little confused now about this plan and the 3D fly by that we were looking at last session my understanding of the purpose of that fly by analysis that 3D analysis was to give the board an understanding of how this building and how the site was going to look in a general sense in the context of the entire neighborhood and that that my understanding was that that modeling was based on a different plan a different site plan that it was not this I mean unless I'm misunderstanding this is a different site plan than what was looked at is it I mean it doesn't look like the same site plan the only difference is that the studio had been here and with the same footprint over here okay because we know how to do that exactly the same okay yes hi just identify my name is Cynthia Prado and I'm on the board of directors of the Amherst women's club and we have a question about the area of land that people identify as the meadow and we have a concern because we would like to know if it's going to be like mowed and maintained like a lawn or if it's going to look like it did this summer completely not maintained because we have a lot of our functions around the front lawn and we're just wondering if this commission has anything to say about how the land would look local sort of commission doesn't regulate the maintenance of a property in that respect in terms of you know is a lawn mode I mean they could have it they could you know have a modification process for a pollinator so there's different treatments of the landscape that this commission doesn't have jurisdiction over so you know it doesn't do anything with the landscaping the planning board you know it's going to go for site plan review the planning board may have some site conditions that may address that but technically unless it's a nuisance there's really no there's nothing telling someone they have to cut their lawn or anything so there's not there really isn't you know if it becomes a like a health nuisance then maybe but otherwise there's really nothing that regulates you know lawn or landscape treatment but it may be that good neighborhood policy as Dr. Chavos was saying before would be a quid pro quo coordination about other people coordination about families and other stuff okay yes Mr. Robert is it acoustically who is that I'm sorry oh yes could you say I'm sorry identify your name and where you live Ed Wilson and you live on Grace Grace okay is it acoustically prudent to have the studio next to the driving driveway passage just something that might have not terms of noise it's going to be masonry the walls around that are masonry behind the wood siding okay thank you yes thank you my name is Steve Judge I live at 151 Amity Street for purpose of disclosure I'm on the ZBA but this is I'm not speaking as a member of the ZBA and I'm not representing the ZBA I'm speaking as part of the ZBA I fear that my comments are coming a little bit late this train has gone a little farther down the road than I thought but I hope that you will even though it might be impolitic I hope you'll still consider them and give it some consideration of your deliberation I oppose the certificate of appropriateness for the Amherst meeting a media built building at this time I feel that the historic district the planning commission Amherst media themselves in the town are working really really hard to try and force the square peg into a round hole quite simply Amherst media requires a building of size and mass that's not appropriate for the site the commission and the applicant can consider window styles and colors and the framing and all the other details which is really important and that's your job but it's not going to resolve a fundamental problem with the application and I think that is this is the beginning of one of Amherst's most beautiful and historic streetscapes there are beautiful old homes that run from there up to the park including the Dickinson home families and organizations have committed time resources their efforts to maintain these historic structures and their efforts have benefited our town a large commercial building simply doesn't belong here I understand that Amherst media is in a bind they bought this lot they're trying hard to fit all their needs into a building appropriate for the space but I think it's a fool's errand the fundamental problem is that the application the applicant made a mistake when they bought the wrong lot for this purpose and they bought the wrong lot for this purpose it's not your duty or the town's duty to bend our rules to commit an inappropriate building which will permanently compromise that historic district just because this applicant made a mistake and a lot they purchased Amherst media has other options and they should pursue them they should cut their losses and seek another lot I understand they have an offer for the property from the adjacent landowner who's willing to protect that site particularly the outcome is that this outcome would be the best it protects the historic district and it would act in the best interest of the entire town but there's just no way that Amherst media's needs can be met and not compromise the historic character of this district I applaud the fact that the district the Dickinson Historic Commission has worked with the applicant that's appropriate that's what you're supposed to do it's a lot of hard work I recognize that but your responsibility is to guard protect and preserve the historic nature of the district and if meeting your responsibility means that you have to deny a certificate of appropriateness for a large commercial building within the historic district you should do that no matter how much we support Amherst media and no matter how hard everybody has worked to try to force the square peg into a roundabout I thank you for the opportunity to give you my views and I have two questions that I think would be important for your consideration one, what's the height of this building at the peak the roof peak how high is it going to be what do you see in the streetscape and secondly square footage is important but footprint and height of the surrounding buildings are also really important to look at so I think those are two things you should be looking at because that gives you a sense not just for the mass but for the face of the building we appreciate that we've had a lot of conversation about that yeah I know there we are now thank you anybody else oh do you did you have your notebook oh hey yeah and then I'll get to the back I'm sorry okay do you want to okay Dorothy Pam 229 Amherst Street and again I'm speaking as a private citizen but as a member of the Amherst homeless club I really I second there's been so much hard work and effort on this but when the first pictures that were up again today the western wing particularly just sticks way out and it began to look to me kind of like two tobacco barns at slightly odd angles and I could not see how it fit in the space and at a previous meeting I haven't read all the details of your charge but somebody referred to you're supposed to protect the viewscapes of the historical district certainly that is seriously compromised coming from the east I think our historical I think we have to work so hard to protect every single piece of historic property in this town and this is the most beautiful part of it so I got the feeling we were trying to dress up Cinderella's stepsisters for the ball and I think that's not the right building for the right space although I totally support Amherst media and the work it does I don't thank you want to get into a back and forth with all but I just feel like I need to make a statement that this is my I guess personal opinion this parcel was re-zoned as for business neighborhood and it's beyond this commission's purview to override that now I think that on the corner of main and gray street basically there's been like a vacant lot and that's been very nice for the town as you drive in and for the people who live on gray street I mean if next door to me where there could be a house there was just vacant lot with trees that would be great but if the person who owned it decided they wanted to put a house up you know I couldn't stop them because even in a historic district around my house is because the trees were preferable so you know the commission has worked we do not feel that the structure as it's proposed now is out of scale to where it is that it is not even larger than some of the houses that are adjacent to it it is smaller the hill goes up so it's not higher than the other houses I mean we might all prefer the open green space but the property you know was the owner of the property purchased it to put their office there which they are allowed to do and we can't do what I think would be a taking of that and yes there could always have been a house that could go up on the corner of Maine and Gray and then you'd have a different use scape you know driving east you know driving west from the east just like if you know my neighbor puts a house up it's going to change the view the use scape of the street but you know that the owner of the property can't be denied the opportunity to put a house on the property because the neighbors have been enjoying the trees there yes um do you have well I was asking the same question Barry Simon I live on Dickinson street and I was asking the same thing that I was under the impression that we were going to be able to see from the view what the views would look like you I guess just answer that by saying you're not in charge of views because no no no we are charge of views I'm just saying that because we prefer nothing there you know because somebody may prefer nothing there you know I that's right but there's no way to see that the statement was made earlier by some other meaning that you can't see the Dickinson street coming from the western main street and that's completely I just drove that ten minutes ago well I think the statement was it's going to look different and but it would be nice and I thought we were going to be able to do that from the model view to be able to see how at street level how the views would change and I haven't seen anything we had that we did we did all that last time we did yeah and it did it is obstructed that's for sure it is it is going to look different than it looks now so no doubt about that okay so and I guess my only other comment is I don't see how the storefront glass relates in any way to the historic neighborhood I agree with you the large pieces of fixed glass I mean it's storefront glass at night it will be black I don't understand how that relates in any way to neighborhood could I do two clarifications the first is when town meeting rezoned this we were given a presentation by the owner Jerry Gidera who owned the two properties and who said to us these building lots will be developed leaving them undeveloped is not an option and it struck me at the time that the only way to keep it the same is to have a miraculously invisible building on that corner which is there and which you've built but which you can't see and so everybody who goes into and interacts in it is also invisible because these are these are building lots so we have to work with that reality now excuse me your second question was I can't even count of it we were struggling with and this really is a struggle we have three different streetscapes with three different style prerequisites so grey street is one stylistic issue and main street is a very different stylistic issue particularly if you look at some of the commercial buildings on the other side of main street but there's only one important view and that's Emily Dickinson's house come on no one comes from out of town to go to elements hot tub specifically or to go to Amazon media but a lot of people come from out of town to see the Dickinson house right so there's only people who actually come out let's not have cross debate come on from the other side okay I'm going to talk about it you can't just say whatever you're wild either so you're having to spell things make days very briefly my biggest goal would be to have a win-win solution here I wish there were one I just wanted to say one quick thing to correct something that wasn't correct that was said earlier Amherst media doesn't have another option right now there are ideas people sitting around a table could say oh how about this how about that but there's no hard option to this right now and if we wanted a win-win situation there needs to be one because right now there is no alternative people have talked about the high school that was an idea it has never been discussed by the school committee people have raised questions that haven't been addressed so I just want to clarify there's no other on the table option right now there maybe could be but there isn't one thank you and again that's beyond our purview right thank you I was just going to make the observation and we've said this before and I think we've all recognized this before but what town meeting did about rezoning or what Mr. Godero was planning to do or not do that doesn't matter what matters is or what what Amherst media can or can't do what matters to this commission is does this building fit on this site in this neighborhood that's what you have to decide right and the commission may decide that it does we I recognize that my position client's position and what you are hearing from a lot of other residents is it doesn't we can have disagreement about that but you do not necessarily need to feel compelled to give Amherst media a certificate of appropriateness if it doesn't fit that's what you have to decide yeah thank you yes could you identify attorney Matt Massengill I represent harm's way I'm also the president of Amherst I just want to this idea that the town meeting voted to rezone then you can build it's not correct what were you I know what you're saying I just want to say that you guys have a different purview and I understand that but the mere going to town meeting and having it rezone doesn't mean that a building will ever be put on that site it's conditioned on meeting all the various permitting here planning board and everything else I just don't think I continually hear this well town meeting approve this a building must go on that's not the case it's conditioned it was re-zoned and re-zoning means that they are under the condition of that zone to meet all the requirements that the town will impose on them so they're not guaranteed of right to build we that would be great they would have it there has to be a proposal that they yeah but reasonable I think what we're saying I've heard a couple of times tonight saying okay yeah what they've re-zoned it's okay we can build on that's not the case what we're saying is given the re-zoning we are going we are looking at a business not a residence that we stop actually I think the re-zoning clears the initial decision that something could go there and our purview is well after that as to whether it is appropriate in terms of the zone many I agree with what you said Jim but if that zoning wasn't changed we wouldn't be here tonight we're looking at an office we might be looking at a house that's the only way we look at the zoning saying that something has to go there or they have a right it sounds like well they do have a they have a right no no I don't know they have you if it's appropriate if it fits the criteria right and it can be commercial but it doesn't mean that you can build on it if it doesn't meet those right and that's why you know the first application means for them exactly they have a right to go in front of you absolute right did you want to say something? well maybe I think I'm talking to ask you maybe this is a legacy of my time years ago on the planning board but it does seem that boards and commissions at this town have to take into consideration zoning entitlements grounded in so far as to completely to be unreasonably it's the right word if we were to hold a standard that was perhaps as high as I initially would like to have held but have come to the view that I haven't been able to sway you are that if we if we were of a mind to preserve the view as the primary goal as opposed to the goal that we have which is to work very hard I think as a commission to get the stale fitting as best we could and of course we've done a long way along that line and so I'm much more comfortable in supporting or at least not opposing something that I initially was quite inclined to oppose the decision that we were to hold the the view shared as the important thing which would actually mean essentially nothing could go there we are exposing ourselves I think to the town at least anyway to the kind of legal actions that as I said the legacy of my days in the planning board we were as a board to some degree not to wantonly expose the town to those kind of lawsuits so I think there is some view at least in my part that there's a balance here and that the right of somebody to come for us or to come for the town with an application to put something on the site can't be wantonly disregarded or even disregarded by a very strenuous application of what appropriate might be because I think to do so would this commission would suffer in its reputation would suffer if we would behave that way so I think we're doing the right thing we might disagree little amongst ourselves because I would think that the scale could be by means that I've discussed in the past reduced somewhat but I've come to the conclusion two meetings ago that I had persuaded you all as far as I could on that matter and that I had the choice to continue to make that rearguard action or to join the consensus in trying to build the result I think you also said last time that you felt that they had responded to the request Oh yes and I do that's why this is I think we've moved this thing in a good direction it's not as far as I would have liked it but I'm not prepared to in regard to you know our reputation and what we have to I think take into consideration as far as exposing the town to leadless legal actions now this is where I could be disabused of a view that I shouldn't have but right now as I said the legacy of my days on the planning board we were tutored to be reasonable in our and our strenuousness of opinions held I think we've also tried to you know at the first when the first application was submitted in March many of the butters primary concern was that they knew that a building would probably go there but that they had been told it would go on the south east portion of the lot and initially it was like right in the middle and we took that very much to heart and now and feel like we really responded to those concerns and the building is much smaller and on the southeast corner of the lot the massing has been progressively modified to and it's moved and the berm has disappeared so we really feel like we've tried to respond to all the concerns except we didn't go as far as saying we don't think anything should go there because I think that yeah sure oh absolutely I think that you know you've moved further and further to sort of as I said at the beginning to make it as least harmful to the area you're trying as hard to fit the footprint but as far as fitting in with the neighborhood there are three architectural styles I don't see any of them being this architectural style at all it's going to be kind of a new element and as far as being I don't know architecturally I think it's going to be the least harmful of what you've come up with but I don't think it of course is an asset I would have liked to see and I see that your needs are net you have to compromise question is asset to this thing and is Amherst Media going to be able to raise the funds that you need with having enough people be enthusiastic that you put this thing here when they're maybe damn mad that this thing is not according to what they think is good for the town that's a question that I have is that a question? well that's really out of our yeah that we can't venture into yeah we can't venture into I did want to say that because I do have an important one to have you be strong and present so should we take one more yeah and then we'll close the public portion I'm still bothered by the front door it's aesthetically challenged to me I think that something needs to be done to it to make it more beautiful I think maybe there should be a little protocol there so that it looks like the main entrance to the building that rather than sticking in there should be maybe that little stick out a little bit a little protocol and some columns it needs to look more beautiful more it's aesthetically challenged it doesn't say anything to me this is a front door welcome it's just that it does break up a long wall I mean that they've come that far to make the facade that everybody sees from the street greatly improved but I think it can be further improved by making the main entrance walkway the main entrance something a little bit more elegant thank you we'll have to do it how much money do you have? just a quick question at the height at the same height 26 feet 26 feet at the height at the peak at the high peak it's not higher than the buildings that surround it okay so thank you we'll close the public hearing portion of the meeting and so we would like to ask from Amherst we'd like to set a meeting this month I guess as soon as we can that is reasonable when we are available and that Amherst media could come back with kind of the full application in one place oh yes Christine I just wanted to suggest that you not close the public hearing because you may want to hear from the public or others when you receive your new information I just meant this portion within this meeting definitely we're not going to close it thank you thank you what's reasonable do we have any questions you mean individual concerns when you go to the 15th middle the 27th is great what about the first month February we have to set it to a date why don't we try the 27th then we've got some follow up time if we need to do a review okay if that works for you or the 3rd of February I think the sooner the better I think the question is being able to be complete having enough time to be complete well the the they said they said that they have it so I think let's see if they're right so what date did you suggest the 27th Monday okay we have we're still in session thank you so you also offered the first week of February well I wouldn't I think January would be I would say are we available on the week or Monday or the week of Monday the 27th is that good of January or the day so what I think that's more the town is closed the 27th okay at four o'clock okay does it work for all of us I don't think we still have the 3rd of February okay so we're still our date certain is Monday January 27th at 4 p.m okay so I was looking at that we kind of got used to this do you mean does everyone like this room it's actually honestly it's really hard to find a room it works maybe it would be down the street within the area for you it's not too noisy so so Nate do you want my or you got my notes you've got all the notes I guess you could circulate these to this question can you circulate these to us as a commission so that we can be prompted by that and then if we were to get back to you all of us individually then we could add and then you could any additional items and get them to I'm just thinking of trying to you know be as effective and efficient as possible so I would yeah okay okay so it's I don't yeah I need a motion to adjourn the meeting although the meeting is open no I can't second you actually have to place the motion I can't so moved all in favor of closing well continue the meeting to January 27th okay that's what we're doing continuing thank you and then move to adjourn yes we'll go to adjourn