For me, it starts with, goes back to being a player.  I played for local clubs, and then around the age of 12 or 13, I went to Red Bull Academy. I was there until the age of U17, U18. At that point, I ended up getting a scholarship to go off to play division one soccer in college, down at Loyola University of Maryland. And so I spent a few years at Loyola studying finance and playing soccer. I got injured my junior year. I tore my ACL, my lateral meniscus during a game in college. It was really hard trying to come back from that injury. I had one surgery done that I had a second and a third one. So what ended up happening was I decided to take some time off from school. I came back home, had a few surgeries done, and that's kind of the point of time when I started getting into coaching because I couldn't play at a competitive level anymore. And I still have a deep passion for the game. And so I went back to where I played soccer in high school at Don Bosco Prep, and I started coaching there with the freshman team and helping out a little bit with the varsity group. So at that point, I think I was around 21 years old, 27 now. So that's kind of my first time getting into coaching. And yeah, I spent a few years at Don Bosco Prep, and then I started getting introduced into the club soccer world in the US. And I joined the club called World Class FC. It's a really large program in New York. They had me working with middle school and high school age boys club teams. And then I wanna say around COVID, I wanted to really stay active and in touch with my players because all training and all games had stopped. So I started working on a little social media page and a little business model where I could train kids on the side, I could train in small groups, and I could provide content for younger players to just little training ideas to train on their own. So I would say that's kind of how my business started. And also because I wanted to have supplemental income because the coaching salaries, when you're starting out, they're not that high. And then I would say one of the second reasons too was I wanted something that was of my own and I wanted to be able to train different types of players, right? So at the high school and the club that I was at, it's a lot more middle class and upper class light soccer players, but I also wanted to work with different demographics. I wanted to work with lower income disadvantaged players, minority players. And so that's also one of the reasons I kind of created my own business as well. I think that kind of wraps most of the coaching journey up so far. And then most recently, I've been coaching at the college level for two years now and I'm also getting my masters in organizational leadership, which is really exciting too. Awesome. Good luck with that. So John, tell us a bit about your coaching company then. What do you guys specialize in? How to consider myself a bit of a Swiss army knife, right? So at the moment, I coach three teams.  I do a lot of private and individual sessions, position specific sessions, and I can also do small group, whether it's like with a group of strikers and a couple of goalkeepers or what have you. So in terms of specialization, it's an interesting question because right now I'm at a point in my career where I'm trying to build the most well-rounded resume possible. So when I send my resume or when I'm applying for jobs, I can write down 10 to 15 skill sets in there. I can put goalkeeping training, position specific training, individual development plan. I can put scouting and recruiting. I've done camps and clinics. So in terms of specialization with my program, I would say it's probably small group. That's where I'm probably best. But I would also say that I can do a little bit of everything and I'm good at engaging with my clients and the community around me. I recently posted information about a pickup game and I got a whole bunch of feedback, like probably five to 10 people reached out. So I'm fortunate because now I'm in a position where I have enough of the following where I can kind of create events and stuff like that too. That's really cool, really cool. So currently how many clients are you working with? So at the moment, I've contracted myself out to two teams. That's roughly probably 20 players per team there. So I'd say yeah, about 40 players for the two teams. And then I work about with, I'd say about 10 to 15 players on the side. So if I was gonna do a rough estimate, I'd say about 50 clients in total. And I would say most of the private and small group training takes place over the winter and the summer. Obviously a lot of the team training is during season, which is the fall and spring over here. So like I said, I'm more team-based in the fall and the spring. And then I definitely have session, do supplemental work during the off seasons here, which is the winter and the summer. Love that, love that. So when you decided to start your own coaching business, training business, what did you feel was your biggest obstacle when you first started? The moment you said, do you know what, I wanna start this. I think in the beginning, I'm the type of person who can be a bit impatient. I think for a lot of people, they want immediate success. They want 10, 20, 30 clients right off the bat. So I think for me, it was about the belief that if I stick with this long enough, eventually I'm gonna gain notoriety and a following and people will start to come to me. So the biggest obstacle for me and my personality probably was staying patient, staying consistent and having a bit of faith that it was gonna work out. I think a lot of coaches, they get nervous or they get worried when they don't have a bunch of people reaching out to them. And I would add another little thing to that too. I think in the beginning, I was a little afraid to share on social media as well. Because the fear of failure or the fear of, maybe not looking great on film or maybe the session doesn't look that good on film, but I had to get over that. I had to be willing to put myself out there on a consistent basis. I had to be willing to try new things and experiment. And sometimes I would post something on social and it wouldn't get a lot of clicks or views, but it eventually got me better at the craft of social media marketing. And yeah, I think in the beginning, it was almost like I was trying to force things too much. I was trying to network too much. I was trying to create something completely out of nothing. Sometimes you have to let things happen a little bit organically, right? Yeah, absolutely. Awesome, so how did you, or how do you still? Because it's funny you said patience because that's something I sometimes struggle with even today and relationship to patience. I think one thing that I did was I would speak to people I was close with, whether it's friends or family. And a lot of the times, it was reassuring. They would say, they'd say, John, you're doing fine. You're moving at a really good pace. You're growing. So I think relying on your inner circle to kind of keep you grounded was really important for me. And I know my parents play a really important role in that for me, you know, like they see how hard I work kind of behind the scenes. So they're able to say, you're putting in the effort because a lot of the times when we reflect and we're very self-critical of ourselves, you know, I'm always trying to think, what else can I do? How much more can I do? How do I become more productive? How do I get my name more out there? But, you know, in reality, when someone else is looking at you, you get another set of eyes, another point of view. So I would say what the patience is asking for feedback from friends and family and also even from clients. And I think that really helped me, you know, kind of trust what I was doing, trust the process. And it made me feel better about the journey that it's a long-term plan instead of something that, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect in six months. I love that, I love that.  What do you look for as a coach? Yeah, I would say my training isn't for everybody, right? So like I'm fairly, you know, I'm firm and I'm strict and I'm a disciplinarian. But I also, you know, I also love the game. I love celebrating goals. I love enjoying training too. But for me, a lot of it comes down to attitude, effort, really the willingness to want to improve. Those are the type of clients and teams that I usually work with for an extended period of time. I would say those are the big ones for me. I'm trying to think of what else that I look for when I'm speaking to a new client. Consistency too, you know, to be honest, sometimes I'll see one client like once a month, which is fine. But obviously the results are improved and they're better when the client is consistent and they want to do training once a week. So I do factor that in as well. Like how consistent is the client that I'm working with? Are they always showing up? Do they cancel occasionally? Or I think that's an important factor for me too. So yeah, those are the three or four things that I look for. Love that. So where do you see private training going in the US in the next two to five years then? Yeah, I think the youth sports industry is, I'm not exactly sure on the figures, but it has to be massive. It's probably like a billion dollar industry if I had to guess, but there's a lot of money that is put into youth sports in the United States. I think private training has grown over the past, you know, three, four, five years. And I think it actually has raised the level of player that we're developing, right? There's a lot of coaches that work on the technical aspects of the game. There's a lot of coaches that are working on position-specific stuff, whether that's goalkeeping training or, you know, striker training, things like this. One trend that I've seen that I'm starting to see, and I think I'm seeing it in Europe as well, there's a coach, I think his name is Nate Weiss. He's really big on Instagram. He's a brilliant trainer. And from my understanding, he's like the position-specific trainer at an academy and a professional team. So I think we're gonna get to, and the other position I heard about too is a substitutes coach. I think there's a team somewhere in England, maybe in the second or third division. I heard a story about it. They have a coach who works with the subs, you know, the day after a game or during a game too while they're warming up. You know, he'll do a 10-minute really hard session at halftime, you know, getting the players ready for the match. So I think at the highest level, we're gonna see individual and private coaches for first teams. And then we're probably gonna start seeing club teams, you know, large club teams experiment and try it as well, where, you know, a lot of clubs right now, they have a goalkeeping coach, right? So I think eventually too, we're gonna see clubs have like a forward coach, a midfield coach, a defending coach. Or you might just have a coach that is able to work within those three zones, you know, you might not need a coach for each area. And I think it's not always easy navigating the club and college world for coaching here. There's a lot of obstacles that you have to deal with. So I have seen a lot of my close friends or colleagues of mine, they've left those areas and they've got into starting their own training program, their own business. So I personally think it's a good thing because it creates more competition, it creates a higher competitive level where trainers, you know, they're only gonna be able to attract players if they're providing a high quality service. So I think it's gonna continue to grow. I think there'll be more coaches and trainers starting their own businesses, training businesses. And I think we're gonna see youth clubs and professional clubs begin to experiment with the idea of creating, you know, part-time or full-time positions for these individuals as well. So if an American coach was watching or listening to this interview and they wanna start working with players privately. So they wanna start even on, it might be a part-time business or they wanna try and push that part-time into full-time. Well, they're just having forced, you know, I wanna start something. What would be the number one piece of advice you would give a coach watching or listening? I would say start simple and keep it simple, right? A lot of the times it begins with one client, one player. And I would just say enjoy the experiment of working with one individual player, you know, prepare the session well, execute to the best of your ability, enjoy yourself while you're running the training session. And that's kind of what I did. I started with one client and I had that one client for about two or three months. And then I was able to find someone else and then eventually a group. So I would say start simple, keep it simple, just stay patient. And I would say to kind of add onto that, try to document it a little bit as well. It's really hard, especially when you're starting, especially if you're the only person training. A lot of the times I would have to try to film with my phone, which could be a little bit of a distraction during a session. But I think those would be my one or two pieces of advice for someone to start out. I love that. And it's good you say that about documenting because when you can look back on it, when you have, I don't know, when you've reached 15 or 30 clients, you can look back at that one you had and think this is where I started. Look how much I've grown. Yeah, and I think I've read in a lot of coaching books and a lot of coaching courses that filming yourself running training sessions or filming yourself coaching a game, you're able to, it makes you more self-aware. You're able to see all the extra words that you use. You're able to see, did the player really pick up on what I was trying to teach him or did he kind of miss the message I was giving him? Was I giving too many messages at once? Did I give him four or five tips at once and overload him? So I think a lot of people thought it was a little goofy in the beginning. And I was a little uncomfortable too. I was outside my comfort zone filming myself. I almost felt like a little bit of a narcissist. When I would set up the camera or whatever, but there's a reason for it. The reason I was doing it was to document the training sessions, see what they look like, and then I would watch them. I would watch the film and I'd be able to say, wow, I really liked this moment or I really liked this exercise, I'm gonna log this one, I'm gonna save it. Or, wow, this is one or two areas where I need to start improving. I don't always need to give feedback after every single touch, every single play. So I think a lot of coaches are uncomfortable documenting themselves, but I know for a fact that it's certainly made me a better coach. It's added a lot of value to my clients. And they like to see it too, like a lot of my clients, I'll take a film of a session or a finishing activity we're doing. And they're scoring these amazing goals. I'm able to share it with them as well. And then when I share it on social, they'll send it to other people or they'll reshare it. So it's multi-purpose, so it's great. Yeah, that's awesome. So a question we get a lot from individual trainers is they want to partner with local clubs in their area because they wanna go and as you do, coach teams. So how do you build a partnership with a local club or organization? What's a few things you need? Yeah, that's a really, that's a fantastic question. It's a really good question and it's something that I've worked on and I'm still in the process of working on that. I know in the beginning, one of the things I did was I just emailed a few local clubs saying, introducing myself, offering to do a free session or a free clinic for a specific team or a group of players. I think that's a good place to start. The other thing that has helped me as well is my resume. So having the status of being a college coach and coaching at world-class FC, which is a really well-known soccer program in the area. People kind of perk up and they tend to be a bit more attentive when you have these credentials. And the other thing I would add to is it can be hard getting in touch with the president or leaders of the clubs. Find out when they have tryouts. Find out when they have training sessions and I would say, show up and go watch and maybe have a conversation with a parent or maybe offer to run a session. If a parent is meeting a session or a volunteer coach, maybe offer to kind of jump in and help out. I was able to get one of my teams through my network. Basically, a coach in the area told me that some parents were looking for a trainer and that's kind of how I got connected. So obviously that's a bit of word of mouth and also having a good network. And yeah, I think those, if you try to do those things, you might not get success right away. You might have, it could take a year for you to kind of establish yourself, but definitely try to come from a point of view that you're looking to help grow their program. You're looking to help grow soccer in this area. You think that you have a skill set that can enhance the players at that club. I think if you come from that point of view, you have a better chance of connecting and working alongside clubs. Here in the States, programs can be a little bit territorial. They don't want to lose players and teams, which is totally understandable. So it also helps if you have a little bit of a personal connection as well, whether it's like a family or a friend that is a part of that club, or you know, you know, somebody within that club, it definitely helps having a little personal connection as well. So talk us through a bit about your sales and marketing process then. So how do you market and sell yourself? Yeah, I would say, like I said before, word of mouth is super important. And then, you know, the social media marketing has been really good for me as well. I think having clean, professional, and sharp social media pages goes a long way. A lot of players or families have reached out to me through that avenue. Second thing that another trainer told me is having a Google business page. I think that really helps a lot. And for my clients that have been with me a long time, I asked them nicely to leave a review and nine times out of 10, they do. And I've been lucky enough that people have left some really nice reviews for me. That creates traffic online. So when people type soccer training, you're me, my page, my Google business page will pop up.  But now once you have that foundation, you don't have to worry about it too much. So I also have a website, you know, the website is pretty clean. I've had some family and friends look at it and give me feedback. And then what else in terms of sales and marketing? The other thing that I try to do as well is once in a while, I'll have a free clinic in the community, you know, kind of anybody can show up. I usually try to have those in lower income communities, you know, high minority communities. That's kind of a way of, you know, building trust and building relationships. I know some coaches think that that's kind of going above and beyond, but that's something, if I have a little bit of time, I try to offer, I try to do that. So yeah, I think, yeah, using the social media pages to market yourself and your program and the personality is really important. I'm really big on staying engaged with clients, right? So when people text or email or send a message on social media, I really try to respond within the first couple of hours. Yeah, I think those would be my main points. Perfect, love that. Perfect, so John, tell us, where do you see your training business in the next five years from now? That's a good question. I think I'm in a point in my career where coaching a high level college team, I'm coaching high level youth, you know, I'm coaching a grassroots UTEM team. I do a lot of private and group training. I'm getting my masters, you know, I have my UEFA, I'm sorry, my USC C license. I'm getting my UEFA C license in Scotland coming up in December. Who knows, maybe we could link up. Well, absolutely. I would say I'm not exactly sure where this program's gonna be in three to five years. It could be gone. You know, I could be working as a head coach at a college. I could be a director of coaching at a club. You know, I've had one or two full-time offers from other programs where, you know, I probably wouldn't be able to sustain JT Soccer School. So I think in the next three to five years, it's possible that I'm still in the same place. But I think I'm kind of using my program almost as like a portfolio that I can share when I'm applying to certain jobs. But if I happen to be in a similar position now, I think it's totally possible that I'm kind of having and building my own teams. I kind of have my own training program on the side. And I think I could hopefully sustain myself financially just from doing that instead of having a bunch of other, you know, coaching roles and stuff on the side too. I love that. So essentially you're going to be in soccer in the next five years. You'll still be in the game. Yeah, you really never know what these things, but I think I've positioned myself and I've built a really strong resume I have. And I'm just, I'm the type of individual, I'm the type of person that I'm big on continuous learning. Right? Like I have one more year until my master's is completed. I plan on taking the UA for sea license in December. I'm positioning myself to be in soccer full-time. I'm hoping, you know, I'm hoping in the next, I already am in soccer full-time, but I'm really hoping to make a full-time financial career out of it, hopefully in the next year or two for sure. Perfect. Awesome. And well, wish you good luck with all your future adventures. Now, if anyone is watching this or listening, how can they follow your company or getting contact with you? What would be the best way to do so? Yeah, I would say I'm probably most active on my Instagram page. The handle is at JT underscore soccer underscore school. I'm really big on there. And then also you can always shoot me an email at John J-O-H-N period T-O-H-E-R john.tower at yahoo.com. Perfect. And what we'll do is we'll put the Instagram link at the bottom of the video. So anyone watching or listening can go and follow, follow your journey and keep up to date with what you're doing. Leo, thank you so much for your time today. You know, it's not every day that you get to do a Zoom interview and kind of talk about your business. So it's been a great experience for me. And I think it's gonna kind of continue to teach me where I need to take my business. It's good stuff. Perfect. All right, John. Well, thank you very much for jumping on here and sharing your story with us. Thank you, Leo. Have a great day. See you later.


I'm gonna do something different in this video and I'm gonna talk about bigorexia also known as male body dysmorphia I feel like this video is gonna be very resourceful for a lot of guys out there because there's simply enough resources for males out there in regards to this problem now Females they have a lot of resources. They have a lot of support groups for female body dysmorphia They know where to go to they know how to approach it But guys it's something kind of like the pink elephant in the room That no one discusses so I'm gonna talk about it right now and the reason this has been brought up to my attention is because a YouTube fitness celebrity rich piano recently passed away and this guy was Someone who was self-proclaimed a sufferer or bigorexia. So it's not just a small problem It's a widespread from my seat all the time basically bigorexia is generally one guys into fitness, right? He goes to the gym. He gets fit He develops a good body, but he's never big enough or he never looks good enough He's constantly insecure about how he looks he wants to get his shoulders just right He wants to get his calves just right his quads just right All these things these small Selling nuances that most people won't be able to pick up with they give him a huge sense of insecurity especially the calves for a lot of guys they give guys insecurities and I Blame social media and Photoshop and a lot of these other Fitness models that are in the scene because they've created this false image that guys now try to Adhere to in the same way that females have fed false images of Picture-perfect girls on the cover of magazines with no pimples. No no blemishes Just perfect Photoshop guys are being fed the same thing But in regards to their body you watch YouTube videos you watch his Instagram videos of these guys with these insane insane proportions insane muscle mass incredibly low body fat and a lot of guys see that as a goal to reach you they see that Idealist Greek God Physique as a goal to aspire to now. There's nothing wrong with that But you have to still have a realistic approach when you're going about this You have to understand that a lot of these images that you're being fed are not authentic A lot of these guys are just seeing on Instagram feed to no look like that year-round a lot of these guys Do not even look at that a lot of them use Photoshop a lot of them use steroids and claim to be natural So you have to separate Reality from imagination and see what you can do now. I've personally experienced this myself I've been going to the gym for about five years and a half now.  I buffed up and got bigger now I was a stage. I was about 200 pounds or 93 kilos and I was pretty big but the thing is I still felt small. I still felt like I wasn't big enough I need to get bigger shoulders. I need to get bigger delts and this kept going on Got extreme where I'd be doing these, you know ridiculous workouts I'll be doing the meal prep all trying to catch an illusion something that wasn't there This goes this false ideal that guys have been fed, right? Eventually I snapped out of it, especially with the store season thing the store season concept I'm always talking about learning to see what's in your control and what's not in your control now for a large Percentage of us. We do not have the genetics to come anywhere close to these guys that we idolize So you need to come to terms with that and see what is in your control. You need to learn to lift for yourself to Realize what's reasonable for yourself and to aspire to reach that goal to realize what body fat percentage is safe for you or Makes you feel the best and to go for that to realize what amount of muscle makes you feel good and to maintain that Don't get swayed away by people and their opinions. Don't try to reach goals that under listing don't try to look like the movie characters because Even those guys don't look like that So it's all about learning about what's in your control and learning to lift for yourself Go to the gym and set your goals set your goals and hit them and it should be a healthy thing It shouldn't lead to these negative mindsets.  Don't fall for it Lift for yourself look for your body and the experience be much more enjoyable Hey guys, I hope you get some value of that. Peace


All right, I promise you this time it's gonna work. I promise you. Tom McCaffrey is a hysterical comedian. He started doing it back in 1999 in Los Angeles. His credits include multiple appearances on VH1's best week ever, Comedy Central's premium blend, Comedy Central's secret stash movie. He's got a Comedy Central record called Invite Them Up. He's been on the A-list. He's got another comedy CD called, I hope I'm saying this right, Lou Diamond Phillips. Did I pronounce that right? Yeah, you did because it's Lou Diamond Phillips, but with a question mark. You also directed the movie Adventures in Comedy, and it's a pleasure to have you on, sir. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here. You're in my apartment parking. Yeah, you're in Manhattan, and where are you going to be performing this week? Well, tomorrow I'm doing a showdown in the East Village at this place called Black Cat at 8 p.m. I think it's on Stanton, and then I'm supposed to do Broadway on Saturday, the upstairs room, and that's it for the weekend. And then next week, what's up? Well, one of the reasons I asked you to be on the show is because not only are you a great comic, you had a midlife crisis and decided not to stop doing comedy, but to do something else. What are you in the middle of right now? Well, I started making math, so is that what you're talking about? Yeah. I enrolled in law school in 2015, so that was definitely a midlife crisis. But I think it was a healthy one, you know, like midlife, it can be worse than going back to school to get a law degree. Now, you were born in 1973. Yes. So I was 41 when I got into law school, and was 42 when I started. 42 when you started law school. I just turned yet. Okay. How many peers in law school are your age? Not many, I found. Emotionally, there's a lot. That was definitely one of the eye-opening experiences, because I didn't go in thinking that everyone would be my age. But it kind of brought into focus just how old I was, because I feel like in comedy, you're around people who are older, but no one acts their age. Everyone's very acting like they're not their age. So when I was around like 23-year-olds, like they acted weird towards like me being in like my early 40s, they made it be clear that it was like weird to them that I was like around them. But in comedy, I never had, you know, I mean, like when you're in comedy, you know, I would be like 40 and I'd be like a 23-year-old girl who was a fan of comedy, and you being 40 is not a big deal to them. But in law school, like a girl who's in law school, a 42-year-old guy, that is a big deal to them. And they're like, they think it's weird. And why isn't it weird? It is weird. I guess I just did, you know, you know, comedy and like showbiz, it's like not a normal world, so you're not really getting the real experience of the world. You know what I mean? The people you're around aren't a good kind of like, you know, representation of the culture out there. So it kind of was a wake-up call when I got there to how old I actually was. I was like, oh yeah, like I'm not really young. Are you older than any of your teachers, any of your professors? Yeah, definitely. I think I had a professor this semester who, I think he's 40, so he's like a few years younger than me.  So it's weird to be like, to being kind of like reprimanded by someone who's like eight years younger than you. And they're younger, but they're like older because they're mature, you know? You're talking about the teachers or you're talking about the teachers? I'm talking about the professors, yeah. Like they're 35, but they're like, I'm a soft 40. I was a soft 42. I hadn't really, I was very sheltered and being in comedy didn't, you know, didn't make me mature. You know, I mean, that's kind of why I was doing it because I didn't want to grow up. But then law school is definitely like an environment where you should be grown up kind of, you know, even though it's not like that I'm surrounded by millennials who are not very mature, but. So the average.  The average, I think they told me the day I got there, the dean said the average age of an incoming class was 28. All right. So I met, there are people that are older than me.   How is the brain?  Is it, I would think just not that I really good question. I would never go to law. I wouldn't go to law school. I would practice law until I got caught without a license. Right. But I'm not, I'm not going to spend the money to go to law school, but I will give legal advice. However, I think at my age, I would have an advantage over a 28 year old in that I could be more focused. I could put in the extra hours because I got nothing better. I got nothing better to do. And it's not like I've got hot and cold running women coming into my room. So it just mainly cold women. They start off hot. They're hot when we start. Do you have fewer, would you say you have fewer distractions than somebody who is 15 years younger than you are? Yeah, I think that that's been the advantage. I don't know if like, right, if I had thought about doing this in college, it wasn't like complete. I mean, it is a midlife crisis, but it wasn't like a thing where I was like, well, I guess I'm going to do that. I had always thought of it. My dad was a lawyer. I have a lot of lawyers, my family, my mom had always wanted me to be a lawyer. And you know, when I was young, I was like, whatever, like, I'm not going to do that. And then I like, if I had done it out of college, I do not think I would have had the focus or I mean, you know, a lot of these people who are in my class who are probably like 24 now, because I'm about to go into my third year, you know, they're at that age where you want to party like you you're you're going out.  These are like your party years. Do you party? I remember you party. No, I've been to a Christmas party with you. You really? When you say you party, do you mean like, like you do blow? Is that what you mean? No, I'm just kidding. That's that's like, that's like code for that.  Oh, hang on. Hang on. Hang on for one second. I'm so sheltered. Is that an actual thing? I know this sounds naive. But in your world, do people actually you're breathing into the phone, by the way? I am. Yeah. Can you stop breathing? Sure. Yeah. Thank you. Much something I've been working on. Do people still do blow? I mean, is that an actual thing where they said, do you want to party? I mean, if you wanted to score some cocaine, you could. I feel like blow is is so ubiquitous now. It's like back. The millennials have embraced blow like this is 1984 again, because I have been I'm offered cocaine all the time. I see it all the time. And I when I was in my 20s, I never was offered cocaine. I never was around cocaine. I feel like we didn't when I was in my 20s, we didn't really do it. It wasn't like our it wasn't cool to us or something. But now it's that's another thing that's weird about law school. Like I I had to get back into school to see to be surrounded by drugs again. Like I see drugs everywhere now. Well, we should mention that you're going to law school in Medellin, Colombia. So it's yeah, yeah, exactly. Where are you going to law school? I go to New York Law School. Okay, you're at New York Law School. I don't want to get back. Yeah, I don't want to get into any trouble with the students. I don't do right. I don't do drugs. I'm just saying like, I've seen it more being back at school. But I think it's because I'm around people that age who would do it, you know what I mean? Like I and it's kind of like, I just think it's ironic that you know, you always I would always see these PSAs about like, oh, you can't do drugs and be in school, you know, and it's like, I really like now that I'm back in school, I feel like I see that's where the I'm seeing drugs again. Where do you see them? Where do you see them? You're not in a dorm. I would assume you're in an apartment. Yeah, I just, you know, you know, like people will talk about it and, you know, we'll talk about doing them and kind of because they're stressed out. I mean, I would say the main one is like weed is like and drinking a lot too. You know, it's very stressful. So I think to release, you know, it does get the main thing about law school that I will say is like what you would ask before, which I didn't really answer, but I would like I feel like I'm I'm much more prepared for it now because I I take it more seriously now because I'm like closer to dying, you know, I like when you're in your 20s, you don't think you're gonna die for some reason. But now I'm like, when you're in your 40s, you're like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna die, like I'm definitely gonna die, like not that far from now. And so you're like, oh, yeah, I got to I have to do well here. I have to do this.   So I can't really lose my scholarship because you have to keep a certain GPA. So when I was in college, I wasn't paying for it. So I didn't it didn't seem like a real thing. Like, you know, it was like a thing, almost my parents are forcing me to do and they were paying. So you know, it makes you a better student though. So if you're working off a scholarship and you have to hit a certain certain threshold, that does make you a better student, right? It does. And I do have less distractions, like I'm not as I am distracted, but not like I think when I would have been when I was younger, I I'm not, I can focus better now. And it still is really hard because, you know, I think it's because I hadn't, I hadn't been at school for a while. And it's a lot of reading. And I, I don't know that I was really are you reading, are you reading books or are you reading on a tablet? I'm reading books and it's like hard reading. It's it's kind of like learning a language, you know, like when you look at a legal contract, you're like, I don't, because that's the whole thing with like why you need lawyers, because you're like, I don't understand this. Someone else, you read it.  And but you have to start understanding it. That's what gets hard about it. Like you'll read something and you're like, I don't know what that means. And you have to read it three more times. And because I was taking it so seriously, because I was older and I had a lot more invested in it. I would, if I didn't understand something, I really would put in the work to get it. You know what I mean? I wouldn't just kind of blow it off. Now, are you looking words up? I would assume with a Kindle or a tablet, you can just touch these Latin words and they pop up. That would make going to law school so much easier. You're not reading electronically. Now, I, I, there was one class where I had books on Kindle and I didn't like it. I don't know why just reading on a Kindle. I don't like, I feel like it's so easy to get distracted because you're on a device that you could just start looking up like corn on. So, you know, I just, I'd rather have the actual book in front of me. So, but I, yeah, I would have my iPhone and I would have to look up legal terms all the time. I mean, I still do to this, even now. So it's like, how's your, and your memory is still good? Yeah, yeah, it's good. It's pretty good. Is it getting better because you're going to law school? I don't know. I mean, maybe because I, it's, I'm utilizing it more than I ever have because even in comedy, I, I would be lazy about memorizing like, it's not my jokes, but I would have like a set list a lot. You know, so like, I don't know. I feel like, you know, comedy, I've worked hard at it, but it can kind of breed laziness a little bit. I don't know. But I was always kind of inherently, yeah, you agree with that? Oh yeah.  And I think for me, it was brain damaging. I found, I found it was a little numbing to the brain because of the repetition. But do you find yourself in conversations with people and suddenly you're more logical, you're more persuasive, or you're just a bigger a-hole because that's what lawyers Well, that's a really interesting thing because it's something I've been discovered because, you know, that was always the thing.  Like a good start, you know, I just knew those jokes. And then when I got into law school, I started realizing I was like, oh yeah, like there's a personality type that is kind of hard to get along with. So there were a lot of people and I mean, I think part of it was too was that I was older. So there was that gap, but like a lot of people weren't very like friendly or nice.    And now I think I'm better at it. Like, all right, there's no, there's, there's nothing more like defending yourself in a situation, but there's a, you can go, you can go too far sometimes.  Okay. I want to ask you about the personality type, because I may or may not know somebody who may or may not be me, who is going through lawyers because he may or may not be getting a divorce. And okay, so let me ask you. Yeah, we don't know. We won't say who we're talking about. Would you say out of a hundred law students, how many of them are capable of admitting they're wrong? Oh, wow. How many of them are capable of saying I made a mistake? Well, law students might be a little different because they might be a little more open to admitting they're wrong because maybe they're still at a point of like, Oh, I kind of don't know what I'm doing yet. But I mean, you know, maybe like, maybe like 30, which isn't bad, but I think that 30 out of a hundred, what 30 will admit they made a mistake or 30 can't admit they made. Yeah, definitely. I think law students definitely because I think law students are a little more open to you. They're not as stubborn and they're they're a lot of them are younger. So they might be a little more like, Oh yeah, I can admit that I was wrong about that. But that doesn't mean that they still don't have like a certain personality type that's kind of off-putting. You know what I mean? Like, I think what is just there's like a there's a competitive like when you when I walk in the building at times, you can just kind of like feel something in the air that is like training a little like just like competition and people aren't there to like be your friend. Some people are very I've made friends there. Some people are very nice. But you know, I have a lot of interactions where I will know people and I talk to them and then I'll see them and they never acknowledge me again, which is kind of my biggest pet peeve in the world. Like when I know someone and then they just ignore me, like after that, I I really don't like and that happens to me all the time there. Like it's like your friendship expired or something. You know what I mean? My dealings with lawyers is they're not concerned about the truth. They're not even concerned about winning. They're not concerned about the client. They're concerned about billable hours and they will fight just as hard for their right to bill you as they will the opposing council that there's no that's the other excuse me for that. Go ahead. There's no score. There's no scorecard because most lawsuits are settled. So there's no one lost column.  How many of you lost? Because we've lost our right to sue in America. So you really don't know how good a lawyer you're hiring because none of them really go to court.  They've just made it so expensive. Is that is that fair to say that? But what that last part that no one goes to court? Yeah. I mean, I haven't had much experience in that realm, but I would assume, yeah, like it's a lot easier to settle than to go through an entire trial, which is that, you know, I feel like I've learned a lot. They say a lot. You want to avoid going to trial as much as you can because it's just so much easier to settle. And I don't know if that's like even a money thing.  It depends on and I was going to say with the lawyers you're talking about, it depends on the type of law area because in certain areas, I think there are going to be lawyers like that. But I've come across a lot who at least at this point are not like are not focused on just making money and, you know, they don't care about winning or they just kind of about billing people and getting their money, but are more kind of like did get into law to like help people and seek justice. But, you know, I don't know. I think that's the nature of that business. It's very competitive and a lot of people go into it specifically just to make money. So. Well, I don't mind. I don't mind. But here's the thing. I don't mind the competition. I want it to be competitive. The problem is it's not the lawyers compete with their own clients to prove that they're smarter than their clients and they can outwit their clients and charge them for things that they never did because they've privatized. Certainly in civil procedure, they've privatized procedure in this country so that it's just prohibitive to sue or when you're sued, you you settle because you just do not want to go through it even. So somebody can drag your name through the mud, say whatever they want. And because it's because they've privatized civil, the civil lawsuits, you have retired judges settling things. So you never know how good a lawyer you have because he's not or she is not competing with opposed. You mean that you don't know because they never actually have to go into court and yeah. Yeah. And they don't. I do think settling is even like an art in itself, you know, like the negotiating of how they handle that.  But do they teach you how to settle? On my first year, we had some like negotiating clinics where we would have to go in and do like we'd be going up against another set of attorneys for our client trying to get a deal. So yeah, we kind of went through that. But I have heard a lot. They'll be like, you want to settle. I mean, they don't like it, but they're just like it's sometimes it's an easier situation or scenario to just not to drag it out in court. Not to drag it out. I know it's not you that you're talking about. No, no, no, no, I've never met a lawyer. Would they like the ones, what if it is you?  They were like adversarial to you. I'm saying my friend, his experience with all lawyers when it comes to civil litigation is they spend more time negotiating with their clients than they do opposing counsel. They have, they want to make a deal, even if the deal is no good. They want to make the deal so they can move on. They do a cost benefit analysis of their time, their money, and they don't do their homework. They don't review the documents. They say, these are rounding errors. Let's just settle. And my friend says, these are rounding errors to you because you want to move on. But my friend says, I have to live with these rounding errors. And then it becomes a back and forth.  You don't want to spend that money.  I mean, how do you sleep at night? What do you take pride in? And then they say, well, you're being very difficult to work with. And since your retainer has almost been run down to zero, we no longer want to work with you. Go find another lawyer. And my friend then it's just a never ending cycle of hell. Well, I would say, well, I would say that what what what must happen. And this is just from like experiencing it is like, it's learning all this stuff is really difficult. And it takes a lot of work. And then when you are a lawyer, that's kind of your leverage, because your whole thing is your banking on people who don't who get in situations where they need help and they don't understand anything. So I think a lot of lawyers will take it, obviously will take advantage of that. And what you're talking about with your friend is like, they're kind of they're kind of relying on the fact that, oh, well, they're never going to be able to understand what I'm telling them, you know what I mean? Because I don't know anything. And then no one understands this language. So when my friend asks a question and says, what does this mean? And why didn't you do such and such? And he says it in this tone of voice. I thought you were going to do such and such. You said you would. They immediately say, I don't like your tone of voice. You're being difficult. Huh? How am I? Yeah, that kind of stuff. That old game sounds like your friend sounds like he's being difficult there. Really? Maybe it's that maybe it's that maybe it's the timber of his voice. Because sometimes when he says, I don't understand this, maybe it's menacing. But my friend is a really decent person.  Problem is, my friend would agree with you that he's an asshole, which is, but he's still entitled to his day in court. He's still entitled to getting an officer of the court who's going to look out for him. And they don't seem to care. They only care about their trips. Well, they shouldn't, the lawyer shouldn't be that way with the client. They shouldn't be adversarial.  So, but they shouldn't do that to you. But in my experience with lawyers, this is like one of my last things that like finally pushed me over to wanting to be a lawyer was when I made my movie, I did this, I did this distribution deal with this company. And they just kind of ripped me off, which I kind of was like anticipating because I just wanted to get it out there. I didn't want to sit on it. And I just remember their lawyer called me and was like, you know, this is supposed to be a lawyer that's like representing the company that is like interested in my movie. And they're, you know, so I have a product they want. He was like, strong arming me into taking the deal and like signing it. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. Like this guy, he's just, because he was doing that, he was using tactics, like he was like, well, you know what, if you don't do this, like, we're gonna, we're gonna take it away. And then like, you can do whatever you want with your movie and like, we'll find something else. And, and again, like, I didn't know anything. I didn't understand contracts. And I'd had a lawyer look at it.   But they shouldn't be doing that.  And unfortunately, in my experience in law school, I've met a lot of people who don't have respect for skills. But I think what it is is like, it's a lot, it attracts a personality. It's kind of similar to comedy. Like it attracts a personality type that is like narcissistic and has a big ego and doesn't know how to interact with people well. And I think that that's part of the profession. A lot of people don't kind of take for granted, you know, I mean, where they're like, well, I don't need to like deal with people.  Yeah, how do you? Yeah, it goes back to how do you quantify the quality of a lawyer? There's no way to tell. There's like a reputation.  And with a lawyer, because they never go to trial, you have no, you don't know if they're winners or losers. Let me ask you this. Some of them do. Yeah, go ahead.  I mean, some I was just working for a firm as like a personal injury firm. And I think that they had, they had a good success rate. They weren't like going to court a lot. But I remember when I when I interviewed, there was a client there. And he was like, Oh, this, he thought I was waiting to be like that I was going to interview, but he thought I was like going to maybe be a client. He was like, Oh, you should these guys are great. Like they've gotten me so much money.  Yeah, I hear that a lot. I don't know. What does that look like? Is that like your face? Is that like a I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Can you just, is it safe to say that if I wanted to, I could sue every day, I could bring a lawsuit to a corporation and they'll just throw me money to settle to a corporation. Yeah, you just sue them and they're just going to say, it's not worth it. I'm going to settle. Here's some money. Go away. No, because a lot of those corporations, they, they will, um, they've had that happen. And so they know that if they start settling for things that people will take advantage of it. So they won't, in fact, I've seen cases where they will like fight someone all the way because they don't want other people to know that they can, that they can do the same thing. I mean, it depends on what it is. If it's like a totally like unwinnable small thing that might first a rep and they just want to go away. But if it's like the privilege, I think that they would be like, we're not going to, I mean, their lawyers are probably just destroy whoever the other lawyer was. Going back to the, going back to the character of your peers, I think it's safe to say that most Americans who vote Republican have this epiphany where they say, Hey, I'm not a racist. I'm not an ignoramus. I'm a Republican. And I think a lot of people say, Hey, I'm not an a-hole. I'm a lawyer. And I think a lot of parents look at their, their kid who doesn't take no for an answer, who doesn't play well with others.  That's, you're going to be a lawyer as though that's a good thing. Right. Well, I mean, so that's what I was saying before. It is the thing I've thought about more than I've been in it, because even before law school, I was always like, and this is like a comedian trait too, where, uh, you know, part of my, what drew me to comedy was just kind of, I'm probably a lot of comedians. Like the world is very unfair. And I feel like I wasn't heard in a certain way. And I would see how people acted or looked at the world. I didn't agree. It felt very unfair to me. There was a lot of unfairness that kind of drew me to, to finally do comedy. Because there's justice in comedy. That's what Jerry Seinfeld talks about. There is justice in comedy, if you would. Is that what he says? Yep. If you work really hard and, and write the jokes properly and tell the jokes properly and perform them properly, there will be justice. There may not be success in money, but there definitely will be justice. So there was always an underlying thing about it's like justice. I was doing comedy to get just to get my point of view that I, I felt like a lot of people were wrong about something. And my point of view was right. So I was, and I, I'm very into when I would get into arguments like with people and, and they had like really stupid point, you know, their point of view was wrong. And I would get very into like proving that they were wrong with logic. And so there, I'm actually, I did a show with you once. I think it was like a year ago that, um, Eastville and like, I did a joke about Caitlyn Jenner and I wasn't even making fun of Caitlyn Jenner. I was just like commenting on it. And then some other comedian there, this girl was like 23 was came out, just kind of started yelling at me about doing that joke. And I kind of just started fighting back with her because she was so wrong. And I was just like angry that she didn't understand how wrong she was.  Like nothing I say is going to like convince her of anything. So, well, I guess the point of that was just, I always had that mentality of like, I was, I always needed to prove I was right, which I don't know that that's even a good mentality. Well, I remember that incident. I remember, I remember that incident. Oh yeah. I remember that, that woman. She is the quintessential millennial. I'm not going to mention her name. She's attractive.  There's a breed of comics who actually believe they're killing and they tend to be millennials and they just keep going and going and going and telling telling these stories in comedy clubs, not alt rooms, but in comedy clubs. And you want to stand up and say, hey, I get it. I know I'm old. I'm a dinosaur. I don't belong in show business anymore because I'm painful on the eyes and you're not. But these people who you're performing for, you are boring them. You are not entertaining.  You don't get a trophy for this. I don't know what kind of millennial psychosis is feeding your brain the notion that you're in show business. This is not show business. This is just self indulgence. This is just everybody gets a trophy. That's who she is. And I remember she opened for me right after Trump won and nobody hates Trump more than I. But when I watch her perform, I'm glad Trump is president because she has this entitlement. She knows what's best. And I remember she walked up to you and lectured you about comedy. She started lecturing me about and I was at first I was trying to be chill. I was like, hey, look, it's just a joke. I'm not saying anything. I'm not insulting. What annoyed me about what happened with that joke is that it is people would get really mad and awkward and they weren't like it was nothing to do with the joke. It was mentioning Caitlyn Jenner. People got mad immediately. Like I had the audacity to like even mention that like that was this horrible. And I remember what started happening is I would do that joke and it would do badly because I could feel the touch. And then I'd get mad at the credit. And I would just say to them, I'd be like, well, why are you mad? Like, what is the problem with that joke? Like, I would kind of try to engage what, and then I think I did that that night. And then she, yeah, she came up to me totally. I didn't, she just unprovoked. She just walked up to me and started engaging, you know, with it. And I don't know, the thing is like, I'm a comedian. I'm doing comedy. Like, we're supposed to talk about things, you know what I mean?  Somebody who's in a comedy club.  It's just kind of like, we're comedians and we're supposed to talk about things that maybe make people uncomfortable. And I think what's important is you can tackle any subject as long as you're clever about it or have like a point of view on it. So I don't like that.  Like, I don't, I don't know how that. Something happened there. Something, something happens in the zeitgeist when Chris Brown punched Rihanna. It was verb, remember that it was verboten to make fun of Chris Brown. It's everyone decided. To make fun of Chris Brown? Yeah. Yes. At the time, it was considered sad. I knew feminists and they said, oh, it's sad. It's just sad. Don't, don't, don't talk about it. I go, well, he, he pushed her head against the steering wheel and she was, yeah, but it's sad and it's private.   The edict came down from the trilateral commission and the Illuminati that run the, the, the Jewish banks, which dictate the comedy writing rooms. There was an edict that just came down. You were not allowed to make jokes about Caitlyn Jenner. Off limits. And it, it, it happened like literally felt like in like a matter of like a month.  She's a Trump supporter. She's a Trump supporter. She's a Republican.   I wasn't judging. And I would say that the beginning, I was like, I'm not, I think it's fine. I just, the joke was basically, I'll try and do it as fast as that. It was, it was commenting on his reason for doing it was like kind of annoyed me. Like he was like, I just feel like God got it wrong, making, making me a man, not making me a woman. I feel like on the inside I was supposed to be a woman. And I was like, you know, no one's completely happy with who they are. Sometimes I feel like, like I'm not happy with who I am completely, but sometimes I feel like you just have to accept the hand or go like, you know, like, I'm not going to be like, I feel like God got it wrong, not making me Brad Pitt, you know, like, I just feel like I should be Brad Pitt.  But if I get plastic surgery to look like Angelina Tilly, I'm a hero. Is that what she said? Is that what she said? Yeah, that's the joke. Like I'm like, I wish, yeah, I wish I was different too, but I just kind of have to like, you know, it's like, if I was like, I just feel like on the inside I'm supposed to be a professional basketball player, but like I'm not good. People would be like, you're not good at basketball. I'll be like, I know, but I feel like I should be.  And no, it's actually a funny joke. No, it's fine. But it's not like, it's not politically correct. It's not politically correct, but it's funny. And it's not, but it's not like super mean. It's just kind of saying how like, you know, I don't, it was more than, it wasn't making fun of him doing it. It was, I was like, do it, but don't like give these reasons that I think are kind of ridiculous. Like just say I wanted to do that. Like don't put it on God. Like, oh yeah, God blew it.  Like I made you this. Like, don't you want to do it? Just do it. I think what just, it annoyed me that people like got so mad about it, you know, like, and I would find myself in, I stopped doing the joke. I would get in like arguments after a show. So I was like, dude, I'm just like doing, these are just jokes. I don't know what, who's even, there's like 30 people here. So she wasn't the first one to complain to you about that joke. She was like, I think she was like maybe the third or four. And I started, it was with her. I felt like it culminated. I was like, but there's something weird here. I can't do this joke anymore. It's kind of like, you're right. Like something changed in like, because I was doing it for like months and people, it was doing fine. And then like something happened where it became like, you know, almost like the equivalent of like races, like that's how people were looking at it.  It's not worth fighting that battle. I think I said that to you. I do remember you said something like, don't even like fight her. And I was like, yeah, you're right. I'm not going to get in a fight with her. I'm like 20 years older than her.  And that's another thing is I've gotten older. I've, especially in comedy, I kind of turned a corner where I used to get so mad about doing badly or like, if an audience didn't like me, and then I kind of finally like was like, you know, like, if you don't like it, I don't really know what to tell you. Like, you know, sorry, like, this isn't for everybody. Interesting. So hang on for one second. Because I asked you about the personality of your peers at law school. You went toe to toe with that millennial criticizing your joke. I want to dial in on the personality type. You're going to bang. Good. So, uh, well, she is attractive. She is hot. Yeah. Yeah. Did you enjoy arguing with her? Did you get off on challenging her, debating her, and trying to make her feel less than? Be honest. I really did it. I really did it because, um, be honest. I am. I didn't like it because, um, it felt like kind of it felt like a personal attack. Like I said, it felt like I was being accused of racism or something. And I think that's why I was trying to defend my position. But then I was, How long did you defend her? I kind of just gave her. How long did you defend her? I don't know. Maybe like five minutes. I kind of, what happened was one of those things where I had met her and she was nice to me. And then all of a sudden she was like lecturing me. And I kind of was like in a fight. I was kind of in a conversation. Then I kind of was realizing that I was being insulted and kind of like challenged. And when, you know, there's so many if I get challenged, especially someone who I feel like isn't, doesn't really know what they're talking about, then I get very like defensive and but no, I defensive because this is the hang on for one second because I'm trying to zero in on the personality type that goes to law school in their forties. Somebody who doesn't know what they're somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about.  I defend my position. Yeah. And I think comedy trains you to do that. Comedy trains you to do that. But before you said you went into comedy because you were seeking justice.  So you're going to be right. So you're going to be a lawyer. You got into this argument with this millennial. It ended how I think I just kind of was like, I just kind of gave up. I was like, yeah, all right. So you're willing to say you're you're willing to say you're not worth getting upset about? Yeah. And I didn't say I just kind of was like, look, I don't I think I even said like, look, I'm not I don't know. I wasn't trying to be offensive. I just I thought it was a funny joke. Like I and then it just kind of diffused from it. Like I wasn't defending my position anymore. So when you do that, it's kind of like, there's not much for them to go up against anymore. Once they can kind of feel you're not resisting anymore, like very then once there's a resistance, the person kind of gets off. They're like, oh, I think she just kind of walked. I think she was hosting. So she had to go back and all right. Can I ask you a personal question? And you don't have to answer it. Okay, okay. Your father is a lawyer, correct? He was. Yeah. Is he still alive? He's still alive. He's a lawyer. Growing up, did he win all the arguments? No, he didn't really are he didn't really get an argument a lot. Was he willing to admit he was wrong? You don't have you don't have to answer that question. No, he was okay. I remember specific times you like apologize for being wrong. Okay. And did he sometimes grill you? Like there'd be a dent in the living room, the plaster broke? Would he get to now? No, he was not like that at all. My mom was more like that. So I think when he got home, he was just tired. And he didn't want to do that anymore. You know, like if you're arguing all day or that's your I don't even know. Like I don't think you know, I just worked at a firm. I don't think that a lot of the people the lawyers at the firm I worked at were like my boss was like totally chill and like, you know, never I never see he never had. I never saw him get a fight with anyone. And he was like maybe the most chill boss I've ever had. I don't think they're all I mean, some of them can be like that. And I'm not even saying like I'm not shitting on the people I go to school with. I'm just I think it's a it's like comedy. And it's not the same personality, but there's a personality type that is attracted to it. Like, it's usually people who, you know, want to be right and think that they're kind of smarter than people and and are they competitive? Yeah, are they smarter? Or I think some of them I'm making a sweeping generalization about lawyers.  So they'll never have to pick up a book again. That they go, this is the last time I'm going to crack a book. And no matter what happens in the future, I'll be able to talk my way in or out of something no matter what the subject is art or jaywalking. Yeah, and I would say like I went I went out with like a couple of women from law school and they were not easy. You know, it's a you know, certain it was one of the hardest personality. It's a lot of just type a personality type women who are very like I went out on a date with a girl from law school and she was totally wrong in the situation and would not admit like literally it was literally like the inauguration thing of like we had bigger crowds, you know, you can see the picture of not bigger crowds. And I was just and I finally like said to her and this is funny. This is finally like set her off like I go, she wouldn't stop arguing and I go and I was trying not to argue because I was like, look, I don't want to. And I was like, you're going to be a really good lawyer someday. And she got so mad at that, which I thought was kind of a compliment. But I mean, it was me saying like, you just want to argue about everything. So I think that's what I mean. Like there's like when I've dealt with with women, not all the women, but like certain when that the interactions I've had with women who are lost to it, it's it's very type a women who they women, you know, kind of want to be right already. So add that on top of it. It's just like someone who now has the tools to be right. Like now they can make good argument. Well, my friend and I'm kind of the worst for that, because that's why I've had problems in relationships because I'm good at making arguments before law school. And when I was going to fight with a woman, I would like make the point that they were wrong and they didn't like that. You know what I mean? Because I didn't realize with women, it doesn't matter that they're wrong. You have to just be like, oh, you're right. I have that conversation with someone recently. I was like, you know, she did this and she was wrong.  You can't just have to. That's the whole thing. Okay, so let I have a lot of female listeners and I have a lot of male listeners and the cliche the stereotype is that women refuse to admit they're wrong. Now that is right guys to do that guys do guys also refuse to admit they're wrong. Right. But it seems to be the thing guys complain about the most in private. They will say that women are constitutionally unable to admit they're wrong. I have a theory about that. What's your theory? I think women do admit they're wrong.  In other words, there's a certain type of man who thinks women won't admit they're wrong. And if you're in a relationship with them, they're not and it's falling apart. They don't want to give anything up.  She could keep her clothes on and spend an hour admitting she's wrong. Right. Wow, that sounds like a good service for married guys. Yeah, but I think that I think the women know. There was a joke. No, I just said this to you. Oh, you should do that as a joke. I don't know.   And I do think the same way a guy who gets caught cheating on his wife will lie and say, no, I'm not cheating and look her straight in the eye and say, honey, this is I don't know what you're talking about.  This is right.  And I think when a woman refuses to admit she's wrong to a certain type of guy, it's kind of the same thing. They know they're wrong, but they want to lie to you because you're the type of guy who would get off on a woman admitting she's wrong. I think that's true. And I think I have come across as that guy a lot. And especially in that situation, the woman was completely right. And it wasn't like a woman I was like in a relationship with. I was like, I had just met her.  And she wouldn't, I don't know. I mean, and I've had that a relationship. I think also the other thing is like a lot of women are, you know, they're different. There's degrees. Like some are more stubborn than others. Some will that they're wrong. Those are the ones that are more, you know, better communicating. And those are the ones you're going to have a better relationship with the ones who if they are wrong and they know it, they and their remorseless, they will. One of the things I think one of the things I've noticed, one of the things I've noticed in relationships, new relationships. And I guess it would be a problem being a lawyer dating another lawyer. But I have noticed that part of the mating ritual, I believe, is a witty back and forth between the man and the woman. And it mirrors bad movies, bad cinema, bad screenwriting, where there's like this witty by play. And I have found myself saying, you know, this is like a Nancy Meyers movie. In about 20 minutes, it's going to get really boring. I don't get off. Which what's a Nancy Meyers movie? You know, I don't want, you know, but the point is, is like everybody's got a witty line and it's there's nice back and forth. And after 20 minutes, it's like, okay, you know, what is this about? And that's the point I'm making is that I don't kind of a relationship gets boring past, I think topping one another and trying to prove the other person wrong.  But eventually, you know, No, it builds that can only go so far. I was, I dated a woman once and we had that it was kind of like, we would kind of like fight all the time, but about like not like little things. And it was kind of funny.  So before you go, this has been really interesting. This has been really interesting. Before you go. Do you like making people feel stupid? I'm just curious. Honestly, no, but I have taken pleasure in it when it's someone who's like challenging me.   So in those situations, yes.  And then like comedy was like empowering myself. And it trained me and gave me the tools when I was in those situations to not be afraid and to win.  And then like three days later, you think of something to say and you're like, oh, I should have said that. I remember I'd been doing comedy like two years. And I had a situation like that where girl, I did a show and they didn't like, it was like an open mic. It's always a girl. It's always a girl. Yeah. Well, I was doing an open, an open mic. And I did it. I think I was making fun of someone who would gone on earlier who was like horrible. Like I was just making joke. And the woman who it was like these hippie-ish women running the open mic and they grabbed the mic from me. They were like, we don't like that. And I was like, what?  And then people were mad at me like in the audience and I sat down and this girl was like yelling, clapping and she was like, whatever. And I was right next to her and she was like, whatever. He's not funny anyway. And all my friends were there because they were at the show. And I go, what did you say? And she goes, you're not funny. And so now everyone in the room is staring at me.  Wow. Wow. Yeah. And I'm not trying to be sure, but I mean, and everyone in the room died laughing when I said that. And I go, I go, you know, but I'm not just going to say that to you on provoked. Like that's really rude. And again, like she, and she wasn't even that unattractive, but that wasn't the point. It was like, I was in a situation that if I had not done stand up and been in those like trenches, I never would have been able to handle. And so I've been in situations.   And then you kind of like come back and they're like, whoa. Well, what you did is what you did is I have to say to you this, I don't agree with you. First, I have three quick questions I want to ask you. I don't agree with you, by the way, on some things. However, about that, well, yeah, in a way, because here's what I thought when you said that if a woman humiliated me in public and said, you're not funny.  That's that. So when you said that, I started laughing because that's where, you know, my evil head went, well, if I want to get even with her, I'll call her ugly because that's that's just as bad as saying I'm not funny.  And I'm not different. That's not like a really clever. I'm not saying like I was I'm not defending it really. But I will say like, even because I've been doing comedy for a little while, then it wasn't like I just was like, well, you're ugly. I turned it into like phrasing that she had used against me. But in a, you know, a way to be mean to her, you know, you're not funny. And I was like, well, you're not this, you're not blank. And I'm not saying again, like, I'm just saying like something had happened where I wasn't afraid to defend myself. And I, you know, I know I told the story of him that you really mean, and I'm like, look, dude, I didn't provoke this. Someone said something really insulting to me that if they could have just not been rude and yelled at a stranger, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like if you start yelling at strangers insults, you're kind of opening yourself up to things. I'm playing with an idea here. Let me ask you a question. If you say to a woman, I may be getting myself into trouble here. I'm just thinking out loud. Okay. It always sounds like trouble. If you say to a woman, I think you're hideous.  That is one of the worst things, especially now that a man could say to a woman, right? Yeah. I mean, it's pretty, it's horrible. Yeah. And I think in this day and age, it's even worse. But if you said to the woman, let me explain to you what I meant by your being hideous, a humunculus, somebody who I can't even look at because you're so grotesque. Your ugliness comes from within.   It's just like on a first Tinder date or something.  She'd go, oh. Right. Is there ugly on the inside? And I have a feeling she'd go, oh, in that case, then it's not an insult. Right. It wouldn't be an insult. Who cares what you're like on the inside? That's not what I think. Right? Now, again, I'm probably going to get a lot of pushback.   Well, it's kind of like that Seinfeld where I think George finds out that his girlfriend thinks he's ugly or something. She's like, oh, I like George, but looks aren't that important to me. They're like, what does it matter? She doesn't think you're attractive. She likes you. He's like, I'd rather she hated me. I thought I was attractive. And I mean, that's a really good like, because it's very true. That is how people think. It's kind of like they'd rather have people think they're attractive but like hated them. You know what I mean? Because it doesn't really matter. Like when someone's like, oh, well, they're, you know, it's like, oh, well, they're really beautiful on the inside. It's kind of like, yeah, big deal. Yeah. But with that story, with, I guess the point of the story when I said to that, that girl is like, I was saying that like I had stand up and I had gotten better at like defending myself in situations where I had been in the situations a lot where people said insulting things that I didn't, you know, I was too scared to say anything because it's a but All right, so so answer some quick, answer some quick questions here.  Yeah, I have and I and to be honest, it didn't make me feel that good. Like I felt bad. Why? Because I don't like making people feel bad, you know what I mean? But I've done it if I've been in a situation where I'm cornered and someone's like challenging me. But the only problem with that is I've done that. But then like when you do that with hecklers and they lose, they don't stop, you know what I mean? Because they don't care that they lose.  Hang on. So you're not answering my question. So answer my questions. Okay. Okay, I'm deposing you now. Okay. Yeah. All right. Have you ever been in a situation on stage where somebody was heckling you and you got the best of that person you won and they were quiet for the rest of the show without management having to throw them out or they're making a scene or demanding their money back? Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's the answer.  Did you find that shutting up a heckler was more entertaining to the audience? The blood sport of decapitating a heckler was more entertainment than your act. No, I feel like a lot of times the rest of the crowd just wants to hear your act. You know, most of the time the hecklers don't. I mean, the rest of the crowd, they don't like the hecklers. They're just ruining it for everyone. Okay, so you shut the heckler up and it felt good?  They're just maybe saying things and then you'll kind of say something that's funnier than them and it means to build up and then they kind of like accept it, you know. And then... Did it feel like justice? Did it feel like justice? It felt like being chat... I wouldn't say justice, like being challenged and and stepping up to the plate and showing that you could like... That you, that they shouldn't have... It's kind of like showing someone like you should not have messed with me, which I like that feeling of power of like... All right, okay. ...of being like, oh wow, that guy really is not someone to mess with. Yes, okay. Have you ever had a female heckler? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever... Bad. Have you ever won with a female heckler?  Yeah, I've had, I've had that. But are female hecklers... Are female hecklers different than male? I've had...  I didn't say anything mean, they just were like... They were talking really loudly, and I kind of asked them not to talk, and then they started getting really mad. And again, this was like two years ago, and I was trying not to get mad on stage, like about things, and the girl kept talking. And I was like, why are you so angry?  Like, you should be, you know, you should be in a better mood. And then she got really mad at that. Like, that became an insult, like... That she said that... She was like, I can't believe you have... I can't believe you just said I'm good-looking. And I was like, why is that a bad... I don't know why that... Well, that is bad. Taking that... I learned that the hard way, but apparently... But I was doing it only to like appease, like I wanted to stop the situation, but I didn't want to be like, hey, should have you... I was trying to be like, hey, like, come on, like... Yeah. If you're... I was trying to be cool about it. And then they just kept... It was the thing where then they took that and ran with that I was being insulting. Oh, I learned the hard way. I learned the hard way, you know, that I'm a dinosaur and I better change. I, a couple of years ago... I'm ashamed to tell you this, but somebody brought me up on stage. I said, how about a hand for Diane? Isn't she great? And very pretty. And I said, you know, you're very pretty. And she said to me, rather you think I'm funny. And it was as though somebody... It was like a gut punch. And I couldn't recover from it. And I realized, yeah, it's kind of wrong. It made me look old is what it did. Because I'm from a generation where, and I think you are too, where telling a woman she's pretty is a compliment. In many ways, these women perceive it. And rightfully so, as patronizing, as dominating them. They don't care if you think they're pretty or not. That's a form of control. And I, I get that. And if I, but in this situation, it was, it was women who were being insanely overtly rude in a situation where I was trying to like handle the situation in a very polite way. And they were just over and over being rude. It wasn't like I was just like, hey, baby, you're really hot.  Like you should know, because she was like mad at me and like scowling at me. Yeah. And I'm like, why are you so angry? Like, you know, it's just, I was like, you're young, attractive.  And it wasn't just, I don't think... I would say as a feminist, I would say you're young and attractive. As a feminist, I would say, oh, you're saying because in a few years, I'll be old and unattractive. I think I did finally get mad and say something like that. I finally go, hey, you know what? Like, why don't you call it like, you know, you're going to really, things are really going to change in about 15 years. I think I started to get mean.    Like, I never got, I never had that, in all honesty, I've never had that problem because my, I'm being serious. My act is so horrific. When people get upset, I agree with them.  So when I cross a line and people let me know, I go, yeah, I kind of agree with you on that. But I do find that when I was starting out, female hecklers always got under my skin. Most comics, if you ask them, describe your worst show when you snapped and you couldn't finish, it's usually a female heckler who got under their skin for obvious reasons. I think, yeah, I think the worst one I ever had was a male. I had a guy start a fight with me. A fist fight? No, but just like it got really bad. Like he started saying really insulting things. And you know, again, I had this, this, I had this with a guy once, he was talking the whole time and he was like 24, he was a good looking guy. And I said the same thing. I'm like, dude, you're like, he was like yelling on like, dude, you're like a young, good looking guy. Like, why are you so angry? So like, I would do with either, you know what I mean? I did it on both ends. I wasn't like, hey, honey, you should take a pretty, I was in both situations. I was trying, this is what I would do in the past is like, and I started doing more. I would kind of like try, if someone was being shitty, I would kind of like give them some chances. I would try not to be nice. I try to be nice. And then when they stopped, I was like, Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse, just be nice until it's time not to be nice anymore. Like sometimes people just, you kind of try to be nice and they won't let you be nice. And then you have to like get me. And the unfortunate thing with me is like, I can be really nice, but I can be really mean if I, and I think comedy trains you, because you know in comedy, you know how to size people up fast and you know what's going to hurt them. So you know what I mean? So I can get really mean and I don't like to, but sometimes. Have you ever won an argument? Have you ever been at a party? And gotten into a political discussion or just a discussion? No. And have you ever won an argument? No. I mean, that, Louis CK has a bit about that, right? He's like, you know, whatever wins an argument. No one's ever like, okay, yeah, you're right. That's the end of the argument. You win. Like in my mind, I'm like, it's clear that I'm, that I'm right and they aren't admitting it, but. And is that an American trait? I thought it was just like a New York trait. Well, I look at what's going on with Hillary and Trump and stolen a lot and nobody admits any, nobody ever admits that they're wrong. And I know, well, especially now, not him, but, but at least with the Kathy Griffin thing, at least like the left and liberals were like, owned up, like, well, that was not, she should not have done that. You don't see that on the other end, like whatever Trump did the right, the right, he doesn't ever like, yeah, he shouldn't have done that. Or it's like, well, what? Yeah, that's fine. At least with the Kathy Griffin thing, she admitted it was wrong. A lot of people on the left admitted it was wrong. Nobody. I feel like that. That's so easy to just go after Kathy Griffin.  So what? That wasn't a death threat. Everybody, it's so easy to say, oh my God, that's terrible. She wasn't saying, let's do that to Donald Trump. She was making some kind of artistic point. He's a despicable human being. She wasn't calling for the guillotine. She was just holding up his head and this, it's an easy thing.  She crossed a line. We can all agree that that's crossing a line. Meanwhile, he's pulling out of the Paris climate accords. No, I agree. I didn't like, I wasn't angry at that at all. I mean, I, I mean, I kind of what annoyed me the most about it was how quickly she apologized so profusely. I think that must have come from some kind of like government kind of scared her or like secret service or something. No. She apologized so fast. It was a kabuki move. It was a kabuki move. We all, really, I'm curious because to me it was, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. CNN just fired me. I'm so sorry that they fired me. Maybe I can get my job back if I say I'm so sorry. And we all watched knowing that she really wasn't sorry and she would do it again if she could. But because it cost her money and it got the wrong reaction, she's sorry, but she's not sorry if she hurt Trump's feelings. We all know that she's not a threat to Donald Trump. We all know that some, that nobody is going to sneak over the fence with a guillotine and drag Donald Trump out of his office and behead him. This is a kabuki move. No, I know.   Second to last question. And you don't have to answer this. You don't have to answer this question. Have you ever body slammed another man? Have you ever punched another man? You don't have to answer that question. After the age of 18, have you ever punched a man? After the, because I was about to say when I was young, like, you know, I was younger, I got into fights with. Yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to answer that. I got into like couples, but nothing really hard. You got into a couple. Right. I've got to like some scuffles, you know, like situations, but nothing really hardcore. Were you do you think? I feel like I've acted my way out of a lot of fights. Have you ever been in a fight? A fist fight where it was a decisive victory for somebody?  Have you ever been in a fight? No, no, never.   No. I can't say. Do you think there's any value? I'm just throwing this out there because older generations have been in fist fights. Now everybody has a gun.  But is there any value to men getting into fist fights and there's a decisive victory? Well, I think that's what the whole like, like fight club was exploring that notion because they that was kind of, they were saying that that generation of men had never experienced, had never gotten in a fight. So it was a generation of men who had kind of all been emasculated and never really experienced something that that men had experienced for years as part of being a man, you know. So I think in fight club, they were saying, I need to get punched and punched because it's the only way I can feel alive the same way women cut themselves. That's the only way they can feel alive. Right. But it was it was commenting like the consumer culture where it was all about just men like buying things and they weren't really men. They weren't truly men anymore. Before you go. I don't know. I don't know how much I agree with that. I mean, like I like that movie and I like that book. See, I think there's a problem with millennials all getting this prize to show up where nobody loses. So then if nobody loses, nobody's wrong. How are you going to win a debate? How are you going to win an argument? How are you going to have a relationship? Part of a relationship is forgiveness, understanding and saying, I'm sorry, I'm wrong. If you are a millennial, I'm not saying they're all like this. I'm just saying the cliche is everybody gets a prize for showing up and don't damage this kid's ego. Yeah, what? Everyone's a winner. Everybody's a winner. Well, if everybody's a winner, then how do you? How do you succeed if everybody's a winner? How do you arrive at a truth in a debate? In a courtroom, if everybody's right, it's going to be great. Well, I think what happens is they, I think that's what's happening now. They're growing, they're getting a certain age where the world doesn't operate like that. And they, not all of them, but some of them that have been raised that way don't know how to handle it. So they think they're preparing them for the world by building up their self-esteem. But in reality, they've never dealt with adversity. So the world is hard. And they do kind of like, there is a lot of times like winners and losers. So when they're experiencing that after the real world, they're kind of like, why don't I understand this doesn't make any sense to me? Because I mean, everyone experiences, I experience that when I got in the world, I had an idea of the world. And the world didn't care about my idea of what I wanted the world to be. I call it millennial psychosis because when they came of age, we had the Great Recession. We had 911, the terrorist attack. We had the war in Iraq. They did grow up with a lot of adversity, but somehow they were trained to believe that the world is gentle and I call it the millennial psychosis where they don't see the horror that surrounds them. And like that comic who criticized you, she doesn't understand that the audience loathes her and that she's not entertaining. It's psychotic that she can't hear the silence. Yeah. Well, that also might be a young thing too, no matter what. Because I remember when I was my, you know, I'm a generation X, we were in our 20s, we were just- I'm a generation X-Lex. It's a target. Oh, okay. Generation X-Lex. Nice. Because I'm old, see. Let everybody, let's just pause, acknowledge that I made that joke. People now can roll their eyes and shake their head and bewilderment and continue. So your generation X-Lex. But I just remember when we were in our 20s, we were kind of the target of the slackers and what are you guys doing? But I feel like in your 20s, it's just kind of a fit. It's different for, you know, it changes because of like technology and what people experience. But a lot of people in their 20s kind of get black no matter what. Because they're turned to be kind of the whipping boys of like- Because I remember Gen X. I was like, oh, Gen X. You guys, what are you guys doing?  And I just, it just seems like that's what's happening with millennials. Yeah. Yeah. They're just getting, it's just their turn to get it.  They're young. They're young. Yeah. So what kind of law do you want to practice? Well, I think I, you know, when I first went into it, I wanted to do intellectual property, you know, because I kind of wanted to maybe work in entertainment since I had worked in entertainment for so long. So I'm still, I'm still like on that path, like trademark law. Next year I'm taking, they have this like clinic for the whole year that I'm taking for trademark law. So I'm interested in that. Right. The only thing is that those are kind of hard to get, those jobs, but we'll see. All right. I'm working for the government. I'm working for the, this will be the last, I'm working for the government this summer and they have like a trademark department. So maybe I'll do that. Well, this has been fantastic. It really has been. It's been fun and it's- Has it been interesting? Oh, yeah. Well, you're living my fantasy. Tom McCaffrey is a comedian and a law school student and you're going to be performing at the Broadway. Where are you performing next? Tomorrow I'm at this place, Black Cat. It's this like place down in the East Village on Ludwell, I believe, and then Broadway Saturday, like in the upstairs room. Well, you're a great comedian and I'll tell you what. Thank you. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to rob a liquor store when you graduate from law school and pass the bar, just to be your first client. Oh, perfect.  Just to get you some business. That'll be perfect. This was great. The tape will have to be destroyed. Is there anything such as a comedian client privilege? I don't know. Thank you. Thank you so much. A comedian client. Now there isn't. Okay. Thanks a lot, man. Thank you. This was great. Come back. Come back. Come back. Yeah, please. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Tom. Bye, man. Bye, bye. Bye, bye.