Ladies and gentlemen, I wish to extend a warm welcome on the opening of the 28th India Economic Summit. The team of this year's meeting from deliberation to transformation represents people's shared dreams, ambitions and principles that we cherish and want to put into place. This summit has become a significant annual event on the Indian calendar and has continued to the economic and industrial development of India and the promotion of understanding and collaboration between the international and the Indian business community. Today the World Economic Forum's engagement in India not only holds our second largest membership base of companies worldwide but also the second largest number of young global leaders and social entrepreneurs. Reflecting our identity as a neutral multi-stakeholder platform for leaders from all walks of life. The meeting will be an opportunity after an intense year of national debate to outline a blueprint for a post-crisis India. The aim is to create a new model of pragmatic, practical and effective governance that rebuilds trust both in India and the broader South Asian region to link leadership with livelihoods. Just as the World Economic Forum has stood by India so too has Canada with its long-standing bilateral ties built upon shared values of democracy and pluralism. Since becoming Prime Minister of Canada in 2006 Stephen Harper has made the most of Canada's many opportunities and in the midst of the worst global economic crisis since the 1930s Prime Minister Harper has demonstrated resolve and determination. Under his leadership Canada has made great progress over the last few years and has emerged from the recession with its competitiveness improved and with its strongest financial position among the G7 countries. Canada's strong competitiveness rating is based not only on economic factors but also on key contextual factors including high trust in garment and decision-makers and the banking system that is seen as the most stable in the world. Prime Minister your commitment to growth and open markets has been a constant feature of your political outlook and indeed you have called for policies that places great emphasis on these values each time you have joined us here at the World Economic Forum. It is therefore my great honour Mr. Prime Minister to invite you now to share your insights on these important issues. Thank you. Thank you very much. Merci beaucoup. Bon matin. Good morning. Distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen. Before I began I should just like to extend a few greetings. First of all to the Canadian business delegation I want to thank all of you for making time in your busy schedules to support our government's trade and investment mission to India. It is much appreciated. Also to members of our government caucus who have joined me ministers Ed Fass, Tim Uppel and Bal Gossel, Senators Ashes Seth and Tobias and Verga, members of Parliament Deepak O'Brien, Nina Greywald, Devinder Shorri, Parm Gill and Kyle Seabag. Thank you for coming and also good to see my old friend and colleague Stockwell Day here as well. Great to see Stock again. Finally I'm sorry to learn that Professor Schwab cannot be with us today however I'm pleased to once more meet with the World Economic Forum's managing director Borge Brande and Borge I look forward to our discussion in a few minutes. Loreen and I visited India in 2009 and I have to tell you ladies and gentlemen that it left quite an impression. The first thing you realize is that one trip cannot possibly be enough to even scrape the surface of this large and fascinating civilization so it really is a pleasure to be back. It's also a pleasure to be back at the World Economic Forum, a place where a great many people who want to make a difference, difference regularly come to meet and I'm delighted to see that you also have chosen to be in India, a place where globally important decisions are increasingly being made. There is a long time before our last meeting with Davos, I have underlined some of the strengths and weaknesses of Canada. Almost a year ago during your last Davos gathering I highlighted some of Canada's economic strengths and challenges. On the former, on the strengths, Canada's banks remain the soundest in the world. The World Economic Forum is one of several organizations that says so. On the fiscal side Canada's net debt to GDP ratio remains the lowest in the G7 and the lowest by far. Thus Canada's top credit rating has been affirmed, reaffirmed by all of the major rating agencies. Among G7 countries Canada has now the lowest overall tax rate on new business investment. Canada also possesses a diverse yet harmonious society with public institutions and a public service noted for professionalism and integrity. All of these assets, as Borgé mentioned, all of these assets and others have helped Canada better weather and better recover from the global recession. In fact, despite the uncertainty that has raised over 800,000 new net jobs, it has now added to the Canadian economy in July 2009. Indeed, despite the uncertainty of the times, the Canadian economy has now added more than 800,000 net new jobs since July 2009. Still, we remain acutely aware of the difficult global trends, especially for many developed countries. As I said to the World Economic Forum in January, many countries with which Canada is traditionally aligned continue to be weighed down by debts they cannot seem to control, by entitlements they can no longer afford, and by growth which threatens to remain sluggish for the foreseeable future. As I said in January, it's high time we realize that la richesse des économies occidentales n'est pas plus inévitable que la pauvreté des économies émergentes. The wealth of western economies is no more inevitable than the poverty of emerging ones. As these last four years have revealed, the wealth we enjoy today in the West is not inevitable. Our standard of living will be based on, and it will be based only on, strong growth-oriented policies and on getting the hard choices right. C'est pourquoi au cours de la dernière année, le gouvernement du Canada s'est engagé à prendre un série de mesures déterminées afin d'assurer la création d'emplois, la croissance économique et la prospérité à long term pour tous les Canadiens-Canadiens. That's why over the past year the Government of Canada has committed itself to a series of determined actions. We want to help ensure that growth, job creation and economic prosperity will be there for Canadians over the long term. Now broadly, for a sake of a shorthand, we categorize our various actions, our various set of actions which I'll review quickly, into what I call the five T's. The first of these is taxes. What I mean by that is keeping them down while ensuring strong government finances at the same time. We have continued to restrain and reform government expenditures to ensure that our budget will be balanced over the medium term and perhaps more importantly, we have taken actions to ensure that the federal fiscal position will be clearly sustainable over the next generation and beyond. The second T, the second T is training and by that I mean that we are reforming broadly our labour markets. We're investing in training and higher education at home. We're also making Canada's open and generous immigration system faster and more flexible in order to attract and to integrate those with the skills we need as quickly as possible. As well we have improved incentives in our Employment Insurance Program to better connect Canadians with available work. The third T refers to technology we are just beginning to comprehensively modernize our approach to research and innovation policy in order to get better commercial results for the significant government investments that we make in science and technological development. The fourth T refers to transformation and specifically to the transformation of bureaucratic processes. We're doing a number of things. For example, we've launched the Red Tape Reduction Initiative and the Responsible Resource Development Initiative. The goal of the ladder is to ensure that environmental reviews are comprehensive and that they are also completed in a reasonable timeframe according to the principle of one project, one review. The final T and the one that brings me again to this part of the world is of course trade and more broadly our global commerce strategy for trade and investment. Now since our government took office in 2006, we have successfully concluded foreign investment promotion and protection agreements with 14 countries. That of course includes China. We are negotiating with 12 more. Depuis 2006, le Canada a également conclu de nouveaux accords commerciaux avec 9 pays et a entrepris des négociations avec plus de 60 autres ill-compris avec l'Union Européenne. Il s'agit de la plus importante initiative commercial du Canada depuis la signature de l'Alena et ses négociations progressent rapidement. Since 2006, Canada has also concluded new trade agreements with 9 countries and we've launched negotiations with over 60 others. These include the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which we officially joined just one month ago. They also include our current talks with the European Union. This is Canada's most significant trade initiative since the signing of NAFTA and it is progressing very rapidly. All of which leads me to talk about India. During my 2009 visit and while Prime Minister Singh was with us in Canada the following year, I spoke about the need for Canada and India to become closer partners. And while I believe that this clearly is a mutual objective, je crois également que nous devons devenir des partenaires plus proches, plus rapidement. I also believe we need to become closer partners more quickly. When so much mutual interest, obvious synergy and cultural compatibility draws together. Greater momentum for a much closer and deeper partnership between Canada and India should be attainable. Prime Minister Singh and I have agreed on a goal of expanding bilateral trade to $15 billion by 2015. Le Canada a clairement démontré notre détermination en ce qui a traite cet objectif. Certainly Canada has demonstrated our commitment to this goal. Canada now has seven consulates throughout India. We've strengthened high level contact in addition to my trips. There have been no less than 22 visits from Canadian ministers since 2006. Our businesses are also increasingly engaged. Over 500 Canadian companies are here now and hundreds more are making plans. The Canada India CEO Forum has also now been established. And I would be remiss not to mention the remarkable partnership, the remarkable international partnership of Canada and India at the summits of the G20 since their inception. In fact, Canada and India have co-chaired and led consensus on two of the most important G20 working groups on international financial sector reform and on the framework for strong sustainable and balanced global growth. Ladies and gentlemen, through actions such as these, our priority on and our commitment to the G20 is to make sure that the G20 is the most important part of the G20. Ladies and gentlemen, through actions such as these, our priority on and our commitment to building bridges with India should be unmistakable. And it all rests on a solid foundation. We are inheritors of similar traditions and values. We are pluralistic society seeking strength from our diversity. We practice and esteem both the democracy and solidarity of our society and the rights and dignity of our country. Such bonds as these should allow not just for a profitable relationship but for a profound friendship. Certainly they have made it easier for India's sons and daughters to integrate into Canadian life. Just as Canada's efficient and predictable business climate has made it possible for so many of them to build businesses and achieve success in Canada. In doing so, they contribute, Indo-Canadians contribute tremendously to our country. More than a million Canadians of Indian origin now live in Canada. More than 3% of our population. More than a million Canadians of Indian origin now live in Canada. More than 3% of our entire population. They work hard, give back to their communities and make us proud. And you send us your young people in growing numbers. Last year, more than 23,000 Indian students studied or conducted research in Canada. That is a one-third increase in just one year, a two and a half, two and a half times more in just the past three years. I personally place great importance on these people-to-people links. They are and they will be a living bridge between our two great countries, a bridge of increasing span and growing importance. In fact, I'm delighted to point out that there are no less than eight members of the American Caucus in Canada, including two ministers, who trace their roots to India. But besides these impressive human relationships, we are, as I said three years ago, also obvious partners. This potential area is particularly evident in the areas that we have identified as being at the heart of the economic possibilities of Canada on end. The energy, the agriculture, the infrastructure and education. This potential partnership is particularly obvious in the areas that we have identified as core Canadian economic opportunities in India. Energy, agriculture, infrastructure and education. Canada, on the one hand, Canada is a natural resources powerhouse on the other. India needs resources to serve its growing industrial and technological strength. Canada has strong established public institutions. India's needs and areas like education and infrastructure are outstripping its capacity. Canada is an outward looking nation. India's reforms are increasingly opening its economy. Canada understands that traditional economic linkages will not be sufficient to preserve our prosperity in this uncertain global economy. And I think India likewise understands that while its aspirations are achievable, without the right policies and the right partners, a continuation of its high growth rates, its high rates of economic growth are simply not assured. As I've said before, the untapped economic potential between us is massive and undeniable. But massive and undeniable as that potential is, it will not develop itself. Des efforts concentrés sont en nécessaires de rapport de nos deux pays pour que nous puissions récolter tous les avantages que cette relation peut nous offrir. It will take concerted efforts by both of our countries to reap all of the benefits that this relationship can yield. I acknowledge, ladies and gentlemen, that there has been progress. The Social Security Agreement between us is finally done, so too at last is the administrative arrangement to complete our nuclear cooperation agreement. Our foreign investment negotiations have come much of the way. We have to get serious about getting them over the finish line. And negotiators will meet next week in Ottawa for the next round of discussions on a comprehensive economic partnership and trade agreement. To complete that would ensure the realization of our ambitious trade goals and more. But we still do have a long way to go. Friends, here is the bottom line. Le monde évolue rapidement. Le Canada et l'Inde doit faire de même. The world's economy, the world is moving quickly. Canada and India must do also. On our side, we've been deepening trade and investment ties with the largest, most dynamic markets in the world. With the United States, of course the European Union, Japan, China, we want India to be firmly on that list. But time and tide wait for no one. We must redouble our efforts. Let's not lose the chance for both of our countries that this moment offers. Now, ladies and gentlemen, let me just finish with this thought. You know, I believe there is kind of a parallel to Canada and India and the typical Bollywood plot. Two young people meet. They know they're meant for each other but they have obstacles to overcome. They do in fact overcome those obstacles and the happy ending ensures and they do so before the viewer loses interest. Ladies and gentlemen, it's a bit like how I see the relationship between Canada and India. We have had a very promising start. But we have to work hard to overcome the obstacles and we have to work quickly and in a determined matter if we are to get to the happy ending that we both want. It won't be easy but it can be done. So let's get it done. Let's get it done quickly and it will be worth it. Thank you again to the World Economic Forum for this invitation and ladies and gentlemen for your patience and attention. Thank you so much, Mr Prime Minister. It's always great to have you here with us. I didn't know that you had time to watch Bollywood movies. Oh, once in a while. I thought you were more or no watching the results coming in from the US. I'm doing some of that but I've got this speech to give. So we're seeing India again opening up for reforms and also undertaking new economic policies and the result is then also increased international business interest for India. Who would you say Canada strategically have its advantages when it comes to investing and collaborating with India and emerging economies? Well, I mentioned several of those things in our remarks. I think we have some unique advantages to a partnership between Canada and India. India needs as I said Canada needs obviously greater linkages to emerging markets. We have to find growth for our exports in order to create jobs at home. We need growth for our exports beyond our traditional markets. So India is an obviously an obvious choice. It's an expanding economy. It's also a society with which there's lots of compatibility. We're both democratic pluralistic societies with a commonwealth background. A whole set of legal and constitutional arrangements. We all understand federalism. We have unique people-to-people contacts given the million Indo-Canadians that I mentioned and their increasing prominence in all aspects of Canadian society. On the Indian and I was going to say the other part that particularly India needs is India obviously has particular needs in its growth and certain types of expertise and capital and in particular resources. One big advantage that Canada has as compared to many other developed countries besides the advanced sectors we have in education and science and manufacturing and other such things. We have a massive resource base and a massive energy base and we are unlike most developed countries net exporters of these products and India obviously has enormous needs in these areas. Agriculture is another one. I also think that India has found and will continue to find that in terms of just cultural and business face and political interface that it has no developed country that really better understands its nature. That is more accommodating of differences and dealing with those inevitable things when societies interact. So I think on both sides both we need emerging economies. India needs developed country partners and I think there is no better potential partnership than these two countries. Under your leadership have we seen more of a focus from Canada side to the west or to the east really. To Asia more of a focus on Asia in your policies and also on emerging economies and how will we see this moving forward in the next years. Well I would say that there's two things we've done. The first thing beyond even just an increasing emphasis to the Asia Pacific region. Under our government Canada really has reengaged in the whole business of international trade and investment agreements. You know I point out to people it's actually very surprising when we came to office in 2006 in spite of the fact that Canada has one of the most open trade dependent economies in the developed world. We had trade agreements with only five countries in the entire world. We had very few productive negotiations occurring at the time. So we have obviously made an effort to step all of this up as I mentioned. We've signed agreements now with nine new countries in various parts of the world and we have now some very big negotiations on the European Union where is our first target we still hope to be able to conclude this year. Prime Minister Insing and I reiterated our determination to get a deal between Canada and India over the next year. So those are two very big ones and of course we're in the Trans-Pacific Partnership Negotiation. So we're back in the game of trade and investment agreements. We just signed a FIPA, Foreign Investment Protection and Promotion Agreement with China for example. But the other is of course we have been trying to take advantage of the growth of the Asia-Pacific region. We have made massive investments into West Coast infrastructure. Canadian ports geographically are actually much closer to Asia than their American counterparts so we're making investments there and of course we're continuing to step up our trade investment efforts and obviously trying to exploit the linkages, the business linkages of our diaspora communities which are very large. It's not just Indo-Canadian but for instance Chinese-Canadian is similar about a million people. I know there's been a change of policy. When I was trade minister in Norway we tried for five years to get the bilateral trade agreement on behalf of EFTA with Canada. I think there is movement. Maybe it's even signed. No, that was one of the deals we did get was the EFTA deal with the European Free Trade Association. As you know not a big market but a couple of very stable ones including Norway and Switzerland. We now have free trading agreements with those countries and that really also allowed us to get our foot in the door in terms of really kicking off the negotiations with the European Union. I used to say when I was trade minister that with Norway, Lichtenstein, Switzerland and Iceland is the only membership context where Norway was a superpower. Anyway, Mr Prime Minister looking at trade in general, we saw a big drop in the global trade after Lehman Brothers fell in the economic crisis. Then it came back again. It bunched back. But now we're seeing also more protectionist measures being taken. What we're seeing is that there are a lot of bilateral trade agreements happening on the multilateral scene with Doha. People say it's dead like a drum. So do you see going forward that and I know that in your speeches you saying that trade also spearheading jobs and growth. If you can share with us a little bit of your outlook on the global economic picture but also on the trade issue. Is all the multilateral can we forget that? Or is it just about protecting what we've got and then we will see more on the bilateral scene. Just maybe comment first of all on the world economic situation. If I were to go back and look ahead I would say that one of the things that most surprises me is that four years after the beginnings of this crisis we're still in it to some degree. The US has taken many aggressive and ambitious measures on its financial system but we're now facing the fiscal cliff situation in the American political system in the next couple of months. That's a big uncertainty and of course the big one on an ongoing basis remains the European debt problems and related problems and those things continue to haunt us. What troubles me about this is not that all of these problems can be fixed overnight but I do believe that what worries big actors in the global economy is that there will be some kind of catastrophic event as happened in late 08 that will send everything into a tailspin and the constant fear of that out of the United States or Europe or somewhere else is restraining. I think it continues to restrain the global recovery. I keep seeing out there there are all kinds of people, businesses who want to make things happen but they keep feeling that they've got to hold back because something strange and unexpected could happen. So that's my frustration that we can't get out of that overhang. On the other hand I will say this not with standing I think you're accurate in somewhat critical view of trade we have so far avoided a trade catastrophe you know my view of the 1930s is that there's many things that cause economic and financial crises but the thing that sustained it through the 1930s was the growth of protectionism and the increasing collapse of world trade. We have not seen that. For all of our failures in the past few years we have not seen that. Doha is not passing. In fact to be blunt with you our trade strategy in Canada not that we continue to try and push Doha forward but it's predicated on the view that Doha will not go forward and we have to sign bilateral and regional multilateral agreements and that's what we're doing and over time that can generate its own momentum. There is I would say at the G20 there is increasing slippage. There has been the promise stand still. It was pretty good for the first couple of years. There's starting to be greater protectionism going forward. It's not an avalanche yet. It's not something to panic about but I say this is the one thing that could keep us throw us into a prolonged recession for a long period of time. Most decision makers around the world understand that and will avoid it but will keep our fingers crossed. Look what I say is this what we're doing in Canada is the following. In fact I tell people we're following the advice I would tend to give to ordinary people and say what should I do with my money? What should I do with my money amid all this uncertainty and what we tell people is don't worry about today's uncertainty. Look at the opportunities over the medium term. That's really what we're doing in Canada through the 5T policies and other things I've talked about. You know we can sit up at night and we do occasionally worrying about the next phase of the European debt crisis but we really keep asking ourselves what do we need to do in Canada to promote economic growth jobs and economic opportunity for Canadians over the medium term over the next few years and on to the next generation. What can we do to make ourselves more competitive to exploit opportunities Doha may be stalled but what can we do to push trade forward? For instance in Canada we actually have eliminated all tariffs on manufacturing. We have made Canada among developed countries one of the first manufacturing tariff free zones in the world. So we're looking at ways we can just push the agenda forward, find willing partners and I do think that will carry us in the global economy through. I say well we can be disappointed that certain countries haven't acted aggressively enough or embracing little bits of protectionism here and there. I think the reality is most leaders get it on the big picture and I'm still optimistic we'll avoid catastrophes. So in the meantime we can just continue to plow forward one step at a time. Thank you so much and thank you Mr Prime Minister also for your leadership and Canada's leadership era. It was interesting to hear in your speech when you also emphasized that you have been reducing taxes but at the same time you've been balancing the budgets. We haven't quite got a balance yet but we're getting there. Okay thank you so much and also thank you for underlining so much the importance of trade and as Prime Minister was saying I think it's very important to underline that we're still not seeing the same kind of reduction in the global trade. In fact it has been holding up pretty good. In the thirties it fell with 50 percent so that's also another big difference. Again thank you again for the opportunity. Thank you Mr Prime Minister.


This is John Steele reporting on adventure The gal in this story is a cross between Elizabeth Taylor the Queen of Iran and Marilyn Monroe She's my candidate for the most beautiful Dame in the world. I met her in North Africa. We had a lot of fun together There were three of us the gal a guy named Cardu and yours truly. I call this transcribed yarn high test About 400 miles south of Tripoli is the area of the Libyan desert called Fezzan Fezzan is just what any man-sized desert should be the main oasis as a place called seba, which is a fair-sized desert city There's water and other places if you can find it in time But when I landed in Tripoli to the north I wasn't thinking of making a pilgrimage into the desert I was on my way home hoping to get to New York by Christmas That time of year. It's not particularly warm in North Africa It's comfortably hot part of the day then gets quite cool sometimes real cold by nightfall Which leads up to just one thing It was cool enough for me to doll up in a tuxedo and to drop in at a nightclub called the Embassy It was my bad luck to run into a guy who's as fond of me as I am of him Now I don't mind the guy being a millionaire I'd like to be one myself and I can appreciate it if he spends his time just drifting around the world That's the story of my life too, but I don't go along with a fellow American whose idea of fun is to make a fool of himself abroad That's what hurt because Cardu was a real two-fisted character who knew his way around Good evening still what'll it be Cardu double vodka with the dash of champagne. You heard him Ali Yes, yes double scotch and soda for mr. Cardu. Well, how do you like that? What are you doing here Cardu having fun good clean fun? I hope yes, and there is my idea of what we're talking about My my you know who she is no idea Princess Zaza so who is she? I just told you never heard of her. She is beautiful Admit that Steve I admit it which gets me where no where my boy. I saw her first. Is that gonna impress her?  Who are the people if you'll excuse the word that are with her some broken down European royalty Now tell me who she is. She's a tribal princess from Fezzan Quite a doll and any language. Yes, and she's looked over here once or twice. I wouldn't let her get away with that I think she's interested. She looks bored with that crummy bunch. She's with you figure. She wants you to rescue her You know steel I might do just that see those two guys standing against the wall behind her Yeah, they're her bodyguards so long as you know it'll be a calculated risk Yeah, I get into a jam you move in and we'll clean up the joint If you drag me into any trouble expect me to slug you. I'll remind you boy now watch me pick this babe up. I Watched the princess not only laugh when he addressed her but after a few moments of talk She stood up and Carter was leading her towards me only about that time the two bodyguards intervened and so did a lot of her friends I Lasted last night the club will sue us Oh, I'll pay for the damage you and I are flying down to Fezzan how I am on my way to Monte Carlo I chartered a small plane. We're leaving it noon from Monte Carlo for Fezzan. I'm doing the flying and you're paying all expenses What's up steel? That girl is to be executed unless we show up even then we may not be able to save her Executed all some tribal customs.  This is 1950. All right when we get down there You bring the natives up to date. They may be using the wrong calendar It was just after sundown when we flew over a desert town called beer beer el-hasin on the wadi el-age I landed the plane on the desert about a hundred Arab warriors mounted on war camels met us and escorted us into the village Later on after we'd been fed and given a chance to wash up We were led into a room that looked like something out of the Arabian Knights a Character who introduced himself as racine briefed us on why we were there. I am the princess asar's cousin Okay, so what's the pitch the princess position is somewhat delicate. Why what is she done? She behaved improperly and triply. Oh, you're crazy.  Yeah, very but we cling to old customers Well, it's time some changes were made the issue is this Perhaps the princess decided you were worthy of her without consulting us good beam upon that Depends her life. What you can both save her life by submitting to a test test All of us here who hold high office have undergone this test Nothing you will be asked to do is impossible. I Survived all the same tests They still say something One question Rossine. Yes, can this test prove fatal? Oh, yes, you may both die I see courage will not always be a necessary quality Wisdom may often be more useful than courage. Oh chum anything you can do. I can do better in which case The princess will live that adds up. There is an open door to your left go into it The door will close now. What's inside that room? Nothing. No, come on. Cardu Sure, I'll try anything once The worst jails on this one Look overhead a small dome.  What reminds me of something I once saw in China basic form of sound torture Put something over your ears. What kind of a crazy deal is this?  Shut that lousy racket off of there Shut that racket up you hear me The vibrations of the big gong didn't take long in building up to the point where Cardu and I fell as if someone was Going to work on our brains with a thousand sledgehammers Just one thing stayed with me Rossina said no matter what test we were put through that test could be survived I had his word for it the grim fact was Cardo and I had to survive or the princess was going to die I figured even if one of us lived it might help Anyway, the sound of the gong wasn't going to kill us. It might just drive us nuts How long does this go on? You tell me so help me steal. I can't stand this much Keep your hands pressed over your ears all because of that day You'll learn if you live long enough There can stand a lot of things to you, but I can't stand this like that The racket is stopped. Yeah while you slept. Oh, thanks. Any time Cardu You stayed awake through it Well, there was no one to slug me and I'd been through it once before in China Hey, what we're getting company You seem none the worse for your first experience what did it prove nothing at all It was simply a preliminary test. You have good nerves. You'll need them. I'll bet we will you can come out now Coffee will be served you then we'll continue Coffee was served to us by pretty slave girls and my pal Cardu didn't even make a pass at one Then we were taken outside of the village to the banks of the Wadi There wasn't a lot of water in the stream It was about a quarter of a mile wide at the broadest point But to make up for the lack of water there was crocodiles. This was going to be fun It can be done. You know we have to cross that stream. There are seven crocodiles in the water We are standing at the widest section of the stream down there the stream is narrower up that way even narrower You have the choice of which part of the stream you cross Oh, what more do we want one thing you should know if you choose to cross at either of the narrow sections You will be whipped and stoned as you try to reach the water. Oh, that's for me. Steve. Let's go. No We're waiting to swim across the white part. How do you mind some on my way? While bright I'll do it your way Those lousy crocodiles come in this way. Come on, Steve for Pete's sake. Let's go Take your time. Stay right behind me. Don't need it to the left or to the right Don't mind your political platform. Okay. It's even up to swim. Come on We swam on either side of a crocodile started to close in at one point We swam between two of them for snapping jaws not ten inches away from us at another point two of the bees Started lashing the water with their tails. Cardo and I sweated it out Curiously the crocodiles didn't quite reach I noticed Rossine and some of his boys riding their horses across the water He further downstream and when we got ashore. He was there to meet us my congratulations You're doing quite well.  Let me explain. You don't have to all let him You did well to insist on choosing the middle of the widest area of the stream is to steal Yeah, obviously at any other point the crocodiles would have reached you Oh, why didn't they reach as it was then they were held by long chains chains There is just that one narrow path across the stream which they cannot quite reach How did you figure that one out still well there had to be a way across I was looking for it I saw a couple of those crocodile swimming suddenly something seemed to hold them back when they reached the wide part If you had chosen the narrower parts You would have been stoned and whipped as punishment forced to pity then killed by the crocodiles Well, I all through now. Oh, no, this is just the beginning I'd seen variations of the crocodile test before But the next thing on the program was something new to me It was a cool night and we weren't allowed to dry off after leaving the water We'd started to shiver a few minutes later. We were conscious of perspiration pouring down our faces Do half-naked characters showed up each one was holding a snake Reptiles were about two feet long and almost black some sort of a viper I think in any case they were deadly poisonous now You see how these men hold the snakes the right hand grips them around the neck the left hand Grips them about the middle of the body Now look these two men are not professional snake charmers. They are just two ordinary warriors So you see the snakes can be held Now very carefully transfer the snakes to your hands It was a neat trick, but it was done Cardo and I found ourselves holding the reptiles in our hands I could feel the ripples of the smooth skin racing through my fingers as I held on for dear life How long are we supposed to hold them that is for you to decide for us to decide just remember the snakes are venomous If you release them, they will strike the moment one of your hands relaxes in that moment. It will happen I've got it steel. Let's hear about it. We wade into the water and we hold them under They're dead. We might stumble we'll have to be careful Cardo one little stumble in your instinct is to reach out for support That'll be it. Yeah All right, you think of something think carefully my friends and hold on to those snakes Don't relax pressure for a moment Strangle of steel. That's it strangle them try it for just a second. You'll have your hands full more so than now I tried it a second ago You mean we couldn't even just drop them to the ground the split second pressure is the least they'll strike Don't let go Cardo. Well think of something part of your idea was good just now the water Come on. Do what I do. I can't hold this thing much longer steel. Come on over here to the edge of the water Now what kneel down on your left knee kneel. Yeah, all right careful Don't overbalance. I'm okay. It's muddy here. See yeah the ground soft press the snakes head into the mud We'll go on do it. All right. All right careful now Now do exactly what I'm doing start moving your right foot towards where you're holding the snake's neck in your right hand Yeah, all right not not too fast. Cardo Might over balance yourself. I'm nearly there. I'll get your right foot over the snake's neck And make sure make sure it's head is Deep in the ground as you can get it All right Now we'll have a full second to scramble back when we let go and in that second your right foot will automatically press the snake's head and steal further into the ground Okay, here we go The gun was a test of nerves the crocodiles a test of wisdom the snake a test of resource from it What's left two more things you can give up now if you wish only if we do the princess dies. Yes Okay, Steve we keep going why not you know what burns me up as I didn't get to go out with that dame All I said was hello. You may get to say goodbye to her The next thing the boys came up with for Cardo and me was a fate worse than death though I'm not so sure about that as I look back we hadn't seen the princess had no idea where she was But to make up for that we were shown another girl this one was blonde I don't think she was Arab. She could have been I've seen plenty of blonde-haired arrow gals Only this one looks sort of Scandinavian she wore her hair in two long braids that reached to her waist Oh, she was a gorgeous doll take it from my pal Cardo We squatted on some cushions in a sort of oriental boot wall Cardo and I and this girl just the three of us and some nice mood music that came from somewhere around The girl said nothing. She just looked starry. I and after a while she started to dance for us. Oh What is the dance of the seven veils got that this one ain't got six veils? Yeah, but this is much better much better Oh, baby relax. She's for me Steve figure it out This is no time for figuring haven't you ever seen a dame before all not like this one quiet She here card to find out of where my some men could be sure it is only don't make any passes at her that is why she's here Now wait a minute.   Well, let's settle our argument anyhow Always the resort to violence. Oh, it's you is it I was always within hearing mr. Cardo The princess will still live thanks to mr. Steel's knowledge of our people all right steel So we played it your way again, you know, this could get sickening. Hey Rossine. Who was the blonde?  The dancing girl had been strictly an interview. What came next was the last act I wasn't too surprised when we saw what it was We were taken to the edge of a lion pit it was about 20 feet deep into the ground and about 60 feet in diameter We were led down into it by way of a tunnel that opened directly into the pit Once inside the pit we saw an opening in the wall a gateway and behind the gate was a very angry lion There is nothing false about that lion. What are we supposed to do chalk into debt? Oh, no As always the decision is yours so far. It's been steals not this time You can leave the pit mr. Cardo. Oh, no, it's an order. Well, this is my pal steel We're a team not this time. Mr. Cardo Mr. Steel will take the test by himself You will follow him How about that steel a question Rossine? Yes, if one of us should fail and the other come through the princess still lives We want her to live that is why she is being given two separate chances All right, suppose I come through wouldn't that be enough but mr. Steel goes first Well, if I come through Cardo needn't take the test you would spoil our fun unless you both take the test Oh, well, let's not spoil your fun. Now if you will kindly leave the pit my men will escort you steel I know don't think about it Good luck. You bet. See you around. Yeah Now mr. Steel. What's the deal first come and look at the lion. Why not? He is Yeah, that's what I figured now right opposite the lion on the other side of the pit There is the gateway through which you just came. Yeah. Now once the lion is released How long would it take him to reach that gateway? About two seconds and he was in a hurry. He'll be there in one He always is okay, so you will stand about halfway from here to the gateway I'll have a head start. How long will it take you to get from the center of this pit to the gateway? 30 feet, I'd say about Two seconds if I'm in a hurry and I expect to be in short the lion should reach you before you can escape Unless he's delayed you will have to think of a way to delay him then Yeah, however, you may choose another possible way One of my men is now placing a long spear in the center of the pit if you like you might take your chances with that Would you have the decision is yours you can still give up the idea and let the princess I'll take my chances The gamble intrigues me then please stand in the center of the pit How clever are you mr. Steel? I'll let you know afterwards. Oh, uh, just one favor. Yes. Let me take off my boots Very well. I'll nails are not good for this kind of a situation. Yes. I agree Well, I think I will leave you. Yeah You do that now as soon as I walk through that gateway the lion's door will be raised and he will be free Rossine walked away while I was taking off my boots about that time someone started pulling up the chain that held the door of the lion's cage I threw one boot at the lion then the second The boats took the animal by surprise for justice actually two seconds I needed Thank you would be able to do it you sound disappointed I was thinking of the lion he was so sure of you This car do have to go through that one. Oh, yes, suppose I talk about it We have you worried the princess is safe now Let us say you must go through an extra test and suffer your friend to go through what you have just gone through In any case he must the choice is no longer his or yours Where is he in a hut? He does not know how you fared You may be dead for all he knows Come this way. I cannot allow you to talk with him This is where you stand mr. Cardoo when I walk through the gateway We've just come through the lion's door will be raised and he will be free Why don't you tell me what happened to steal? Is he okay a question that hardly matters to you at this moment? I'm leaving you now There is the long spear if you care to use it As I said in the beginning I like Cardoo as much as he liked me which was a whole lot in case I gave you the wrong idea Cardoo didn't make that final test. He grabbed the spirit was no good. It was broken. I hadn't figured on that.  There isn't much authority and there are places like that still left in the world Sure the princess was spared last time I heard of her She was in Paris having the time of her life with people her tribe approved of John Steele adventurer was brought to you through the facilities of the United States armed forces radio and the television service


for how terrible he had to suffer before he died and told him that it wasn't fair. I told him that I would take care of mom and make sure that she was all right. I was adopted and I can't help but feel that this whole situation I was dealing with was one of the main reasons that God had united me with my parents. Had they not adopted me? I don't know where my mom would have been at that moment. I truly believe that me helping my mom through this whole situation was a big purpose to my life. On another day of me being at my mom's home, preparing it for sale, I had just had the carpets cleaned the day before and went into my mom's closet to pack up some of her clothes. The carpet had been freshly cleaned in her closet, so I sat on the floor to get more comfortable and started folding up her items. Soon into my task, I looked up and guess what I found about 12 inches in front of me? A penny. Darren, I hope this story finds you well and is helpful to even just one of your listeners. I still get signs from my dad to this day and even if you can write them off as a coincidence, I never will. I truly believe my dad is here with me in spirit and very proud of me for what I have done for my mom. My mom is still with us and currently living it up at her memory care facility. Very happy and very comfortable. Alzheimer's resources and support can also be found at ALZ.org. Sincerely, anonymous. Wow, anonymous. Thank you so much for sharing that story. It may not have been scary and there was a little paranormal to it, especially with your dad and his antics, but I also think it's a very important message when it comes to taking care of your parents, looking out for them, making sure you know the signs of dementia, and looking at that ALZ.org website. They have a lot of information there that can help you. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and put a link to the Alzheimer's Association website on the Hope in the Darkness page and that way you all can find it anytime you need it. Thanks again, anonymous. I really appreciate that email. And thank you, everybody, for listening to this episode of Fireside Frights on Weird Darkness. If you like the show, please share it with somebody you know who loves the paranormal or strange stories, true crime, monsters, or unsolved mysteries like you do. You can email me anytime with your questions or comments at Darren at WeirdDarkness.com. Darren is D-A-R-R-E-N. If you email me, I might use your email in a Chamber of Comments episode, but if you click on Tell Your Story on the website, then you can be in Fireside Frights, which is what you just heard. And of course, you can also find the Hope in the Darkness page there on the website. You can find Weird Darkness merchandise like t-shirts, hoodies, mugs, phone cases, and other stuff. You can sign up for monthly contests, sign up for the newsletter, find other podcasts that I host, all of that, and more. All stories in Weird Darkness are purported to be true unless stated otherwise. And now that we're coming out of the dark, I'll leave you with a little light. 1 John 1, verse 7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. And a final thought. A part of healing is also understanding how you were toxic. People don't want to point the finger at themselves, but you can't grow properly if you don't see how you added fuel to the fire. I'm Darren Marlar. Thanks for joining me in the Weird Darkness. 7 Days a Week And while you're at it, spread the darkness by sharing this video with someone you know who loves all things strange and macabre. If you want to listen to the podcast, you can find it at WeirdDarkness.com.


My name is Grace Cox, but everybody calls me Senora Chela. And the reason, I think, was that when I came here, I was married to Dewey Tapp, and my name was Grace Tapp. Tapp is a Prussian name, and the students were saying, Senora, it should be Frau Tapp, you know. And so they're kidding about it, et cetera.  And that's when it happened at the very beginning because of the last name Tapp. Okay. So then I came here in 1966, when 67, the year in 66, 67, when the college at that time, SOC, was hiring a lot of people. And I wasn't going to come. I had other plans. I had my masters from Boulder, Colorado University of Colorado in Boulder, and I was planning on getting my doctorate degree. And I got three offers, very good offers. One was in Seattle, one was in Chicago, and one was in Salamanca, in Spain. And I, of course, decided Salamanca, Spain. And then coming here, and the reason I'm mentioning this, because it was my husband who was very ill at the time. He was a veteran of the World War II, et cetera, had a bad heart. And he knew that he didn't have lung, you know.  I had three boys. And then I'll take care of the kids while you're gone, et cetera. And as I kept noticing him, I noticed that he was getting weaker. And I said, I can't, I just can't go. I have to stay with the kids and with him. So we decided to come here because SOC definitely wanted a person in Spanish and in French. So I had taught Spanish and French before. So Dr. Hanan, who was the person who came to Lewis and Clark where I was teaching, said that they needed a Spanish-French teacher. And I was teaching Spanish and French in Louis and Clark. So I came and I was happy that I did because he died exactly a year later. Just that was it. And then I thought, well, it's my time now to go to Salamanca. And they had said that they would leave the scholarship open to get the doctorate. Because at that time, Spain wasn't open so much to receive people from the United States or anyone because they just didn't have that type of a program. So they were looking for US people. And so they held it open for me, not because of me, but that was the thing that they were thinking about. And so I called them and I said, I think I'm going to be able to go. And I talked to Dr. Stevenson, who was the president of the university. And he asked me, please not to go. And because while I was here, apparently the attendance, the enrollment, had kind of doubled in Spanish and in French. And so they wanted me to stay. And especially in Spanish. And they had an opening for another French teacher. And so I was only in Spanish.  It was just sort of a, I was frozen in that time and that space and that decision. So that's what happened. And he said it wouldn't matter to the university here. But asked, please if I would stay because I had spoken about having different exchanges. And we had had lovely talks about some academic programs. And he rather wanted to see them fulfilled. And so he was very adamant about me staying. And it's nice to have someone really want you. And you have the other, not drawbacks, but the other responsibilities of kids, you know, and what to do. So this was nice. And this, at the time, Ashen was and still is in its way. But it has changed an Americana. It was just an American city in the sense that good place to raise kids. You wouldn't, didn't have to worry about it. And in the sense that for the first five or almost eight years, hardly anyone locked their doors in Ashland. We didn't lock our car doors. I know we didn't lock our doors. We'd go anywhere. And it was just that safe. It was just really a little fairy tale happy land, you know. And there was no lights. For example, on Sisq and Mountain, there were no lights there. You know, if you can imagine that. And the traffic wasn't as much. And so it was a nice college, SOC. And it was a friendly college. At the time, I remember the first year I came, the first week, the first day that we reported. This was before the students came, of course, for a week before. Is that we had to take the books over to the new library. And every, professors all laughed because we were all of us taking, and some professors even brought little red wagons to carry their books in. I wish that someone had taken pictures of that. I have never seen a picture of the professors carrying their books over. I know we had all our language books to take over to the library. We did not put them in the shelves. That wasn't our responsibility. But we did have to take them over and put them in a section. And we were all laughing, giggling even, because it was so weird. That was our first job, you know, that we had to do.  And at that time, the school was oriented more towards the faculty. Faculty was separated from staff. To me, it was not a negative way at all. It was just that was the way it was. And we had our faculty meetings.  And so when I was hired, Dennis Hannon, the professor, was kidding me more than anyone, that they used me in three categories. Number one, they wanted representative women more on the college faculty. And I was Hispanic, and I was Indian. My mother is Apache Indian from the Mascalaro tribe, that's the Geronimo's tribe. And my father is from Spain, Avila. So therefore I am what one calls a mestiza, a mixture of two races, you know, etc. And most of the people in Mexico are mestizos. They're Mexicans, but they're mestizos. The blending of the two races, the European and the Indian race. So they used me in that manner. I don't say use, I don't mean that as a negative sense, but it was interesting, it was kind of funny, and it was good for some laughs in some quarters. So then that's how it started. And I propose this while I can remember and we're on the subject more or less. I was asked informally if I would please be the counselor, sort of someone that would guide and help the Native American people that we had here from the Calameth Reservation. And there weren't that many, but there were enough for them to be concerned that they had someone to talk to them, etc. My duties weren't large in any way, shape, or form, but I enjoyed it and we did a lot of talking. And this was the time when the Calameth people were going through that big thing about them selling their land and everybody getting a piece. And it was a topic of conversation in many circles throughout the valley, you know, what was happening, because people were concerned about what are we going to do about water rights and all this type of thing. And the students from there came with these feelings and with these ideas and how would people accept this and what are we going to do.  So that was interesting. And another thing apropos that particular situation is that I always liked to get up early in the morning, so the department just loved me because nobody wanted to have the 8 o'clock classes. And I just said, hey, that's for me, that's my forte. I love, I'm right awake in the morning. And so throughout practically my entire career, which was from then to 1998, I took any time there was an 8 o'clock class, I took it. And the reason I'm telling you this is the funny thing, and it happened through all the years, that the people that came from Calamity, you know, and from California and from Grants Pass were the students that were always on time. And the students that came from the dorms, they were the ones that had a sneak in the door, you know, at 8 o'clock. It was just something, this human nature or whatever it is. And I always laughed about it because it was true to form every year, every year. But I love those classes in the morning. And I did get a lot of those lovely students that were very concerned about their education and would travel through rain and snow and whatnot all the time to get four years. That four years is a lot of time to do that with all the coming over the mountain and coming through the curves from Calamity Falls, et cetera. I had great respect for those students and their motivation. So then let's start back. So I decided to stay. And I had had experience in Washington where I was at Lewis and Clark College there with Sister City in Vancouver, Washington. And the Sister City was Arequipa Perru, which is another old colonial town in Peru. And so while I was there, for two years I was at the Sister City and I loved the experience of it and saw the benefit of it, not only for the students but for the townspeople. Because in those days, this was way before Martin Luther King, not way before, but the whole southwest, not California and not necessarily Washington, Vancouver, yes, because Vancouver was a small little town, but people were very provincial. And so the only people that they saw, and there was a true here, people from other cultures that they saw was the international students. And I think there was one black student, I can't remember, at least the one that I had acquaintance with in the campus at that time. So Ashland truly was a provincial town in the sense and they really appreciated the international students. The community loved the international students because they had a chance to talk to them. And so for that reason, it was good for Ashland. And so I got in my bonnet when I was here. Well, why don't we start a sister city? And I asked the mayor and Dr. Stevenson what they thought about it and they said, well, Dr. Stevenson thought he really didn't know about it, but he trusted my judgment and that you'll go ahead, you know, we'll see what we can do. And the mayor in the chamber here said, well, they were looking for a sister city as a matter of fact, but they were looking for one in England because of the Shakespeare connection. And I thought, okay, well, you know, I simmered on that for a while and then something extraordinary happened that changed my whole life and was very much responsible for having our sister city. My son at the time, I have three sons and they fit the description of this whole mestizo thing that I'm talking about. The first one is very, my color more or less with brown eyes and the second one was born, because my father was very blond with blue eyes from Spain, was born blond hair and very, very blue green eyes and the third one was totally Indian, very dark, but with green eyes. Okay, so there was that mixture. This lovely third son was six years old at the time and his father had just died. Okay, this was a year after, and so he was ready to enter. The first year he went to the little kindergarten, preschools that still exist and it's one of the things that still has its charm here and so wonderful that we have that preschool, free school, you know, the little kindergarten school right here on the Avenue, Walker Street. So he entered first grade in Lincoln School and this was before, again, the Martin Luther King thing. The first day of school, two weeks after his father had died, he was a very nervous little kid and he came home in a very bad after school. He came home rather disconcerted, very nervous and crying and he had a nose bleed and I asked him what had happened and he said the kids after school and during recess were teasing him, bullying him, calling him names. They didn't know what he was. They called him greaser and spick and everything they could think of and pummeled him. So this is not to be. So I went to talk to the teacher and she was a young teacher and she said, you know, I was aware of that not during recess but after school I saw that and I asked him if I could walk him home. We only lived two blocks from Lincoln School and he said no and ran home. So she said I will keep track of it and we'll see what can be done and so he went to school the next day and it was worse. His shirt was torn and so I went to see the principal and I said I can't have this and he certainly can't have it especially at the time that he was going through and I said I was going to have to take him and perhaps, you know, go to St. Mary's School or something in Medford or do something because we had no private school here and no charger school, et cetera. So she was very concerned about it and thought that she would talk to the parents, et cetera. Now this was of a Friday and so I thought about it over the weekend and I was trying to make arrangements, et cetera and I said, you know, I'm going to try something. And luckily for me and for him he was very talented. Our family always sang and danced and he picked up things just like this and he could sing and I taught him some apache I had taught him some apache dances and some of the chants. I taught him some Spanish little flamenco things and the Mexican hat dance, et cetera. So we always, as a family would always do this type of thing. The father, Dewey Tapp, was a musician. He had played in Denver, that's where we were from, played with the Denver Symphony and then in the weekends he played with the blacks in Denver with the jazz band and he was very, very good and he taught both of the older boys classic guitar. And so it was a very musical family all the time. So I asked the teacher to go along with me. This was my son's teacher in the first grade and would she please allow him to do show and tell for maybe two or three days? So that the students could see that there was something there and he had a background of something and so he did. And he did the first day I think he did the little Mexican hat dance and sang a little Spanish song and then the second day he did some Indian chants and some apache little drum things and the other teachers heard this and the words started going around and they invited him to their classes and within a week he was the hero of the school and this is just a lesson to show people that you don't have to call victim all the time or get it from the negative side. You know if there's some other way to get around it perhaps you could try it and I was very, very pleasantly and wonderfully surprised and so were the teachers and that totally throughout then the rest of his school life here and he went to all the schools went to Lincoln and the junior high they called it junior high at the time and to Ashland High School so he had a wonderful, wonderful career here in the school you know atmosphere. Ashton was a lovely time then the Martin Luther King took place and Ashland changed radically or at least if it wasn't a stable change it was in theory and it was more than tolerance then and they started recruiting more diverse people you know from the Hispanic and the although the valley had had Hispanic people because of all the workers here they did not live here in Ashland and the students didn't come to the school we started getting more Hispanic families in and the diversity rather exploded in contrast to what it used to be and that was a very good thing for the college and for the town and that's what cemented my idea going back to that particular week and seeing what happened that I thought well you know Ashland doesn't need England for a sister city they need Mexico you know and I had traveled in Mexico and I knew just the town because Guanajuato had a university a thriving university and there were many things that we had in common and I thought and having been there I knew that it was just the thing you know that we wanted so I asked permission from our president Stevenson and the mayor to go down and try to start a sister city and a sister university and even though it wasn't in my job description everything was done in a volunteer basis and the department fully recognized this and they went along with it and we started in Mexico in Guanajuato the mayor was all for it although they had a sister city but they weren't doing too well not California so we decided to become friendship cities for a year or so to see how that worked out and the university was not happy at all the University of Guanajuato had during the summertime they had all of these students coming from the top Ivy schools here they came from Harvard and from Berkeley and etc and these were generally the rich kids this was in the 60s and they went to the summer school in Guanajuato they had a thriving summer school and the people did not like them and the university president did not like them because this was the time of the hippies and they were wearing the hippie garb and Guanajuato at that time was very conservative the women were still wearing the black shawls and around them and over their head the men were wearing the hats etc very very stylish hats not Pancho Villa hats but very stylish beautiful Guanajuato regional hats and they did not like the fact that the girls were wearing shorts and doing all the hippie things that take place on the beach etc and their rector means president was even thinking about dismissing and not having summer school he thought that they were bad influence on the students etc so I did not know this till I spoke to him but I made an appointment with him and he told his secretary that he could only see me for 15 minutes and I said fine you know I will see what happens and so he did not come and it was in the morning and then so the secretary was embarrassed and made an appointment for the afternoon he did not show up so she says I do not know what is the matter he is very busy etc and could I please do it in the morning and I said well I am leaving the following morning so I hope that I could see him because my university president was very anxious to find out if we could have pardon me have a program so he did not come and so I found out where he lived and I thought I have got to come home so I went to his house and I knocked on his door and I said you know I do not know if you know me but we made an appointment for three times and I know you are very busy and I know that you probably could not come etc but I do need to see you if you could give me time and he looked at his watch and he said I can give you 15 minutes so I went in and I was there for two hours and he invited me for dinner and then we stayed and talked and I had all the recommendations that Dr. Stevenson had wanted we wanted a full blown academic one year program where our students would go and get credit over there not not you know just a flotsam summer tourist credits etc or most of the exchange programs at that time academic exchange and that was everywhere not all of them but a majority of them would send our professors over there with their students and it would be our professors that would teach them there in that country which really is not in my way of thinking a good exchange you know and so we talked over the fact that this was to be an academic program where our students would go enter all of their classes and not just be in a group not you know cultural things but if they were for example want to be a policeman they would be in that particular study if they wanted to be artists if they wanted to be whatever English psychologists they would go to that school and Guanajuato is a huge university with many masters and many doctorate degrees so we were very fortunate that they went along with this he liked the program and he said however we're going to try it out so he sent one of his department heads we have the David Guerra David Guerra Tree because he was a scientist and head of the science department there when he died which was four years later he was killed by a car the department liked him so much that they planted the David Guerra Tree there anyway he came over and he stayed he loved it and we were off it was just a big bang and we started off sending our students so we started with four and when I left in 1998 we had 27 that's 27th year before I think 31 students just of Spanish exchange students going over that was more than all of the other people of Oregon put together in their exchange programs we were a thriving program throughout those years and it was sort of a 2 to 1 if we sent 30 they would send 15 if we sent 15 they would send 7 etc and it worked it was just beautiful and then I was very much involved in the city and we had all of our anniversaries and this last anniversary we had we had our mayor city council people judges doctor dentist rotary lions you know all of these people Chamber of Commerce were involved plus students and they sent their representatives here so we just finished our 50th year not only with exchange of university but also with sister city so we are sister cities and sister universities we are the only sister city that has lasted this long with going full force most people just send their mayors down or they have sister cities let's say for anniversaries for maybe a year or two years and then they die it's too much work it's a lot of work and so they just die off for lack of anybody wanting to do it you know so we were very happy that our university latched on to the program and they helped the students they allowed the students from wana wata to come in and enter all of their programs music art philosophy science psychology etc and it really was a unique program totally unique in every way shape or form and it's won international awards because of that so I'm very proud of the fact that the faculty went right along with the program and the department heads many of them went to wana wata during their sabbaticals and administrators did the same thing um it just it was all levels you know that participated in this and made it a success that it is so I was very happy with the outcome there were some problems early on with wana wata relationship I read letters from parents letters to the president about students that were in trouble down there oh gosh yes you know that's what I'm saying um I don't call it problems I call it problematical because we had the same things you know at Lewis and Clark I had the same thing at Boulder University if you don't have problems you're not growing you know just kids well one of the big problems they didn't want to come home I had to call the parents would call me up they really you know I want my kid home and they're blaming it on Mexico well yes it's wana wata's fault it's so enchanting that the kids want to stay there but they didn't want to come home and then we had another big problem that we had to tell them is that um if you're in wana wata they have long vacations they have from December the 18th to practically January the 18th and if you're in Mexico you're very nuts to come home during that month time so they would want to go to places like Guatemala well you know in the 80s you don't go to Guatemala and we told them that once you do that we can do nothing for you I mean not even the President of the United States you know that's your choice and if you're going to be dumb enough to do it you know and I gave them very intense orientation before they would leave and also drugs were just coming wana wata was being spared a lot of what's going on around it even now okay and so our kids were told that for example my son my eldest son he went down there and he stayed in guanajuato he married a girl from Leon and he was went to the university program there for two years and he saw a girl not one of our students but our students learned a lesson from this it was a strong lesson she was at a party and she wasn't even doing anything but the police came and other people were smoking potting etc they put them all in jail and this was one of the friends of my sons where she was from California so he went to visit her because it was her birthday and her other friends went to visit her if you're put in jail in Mexico it's changed in the last four or five years but at that time your family had to pay in guanajuato for your food you know it was a terrible situation so then going back to the beginning of SOC at the time after Dr. Stevenson left then we had Dr. Sowers and of course everyone said that was a huge change in every way and it they didn't say it was for the better or for the worse it was just a huge difference in personalities of running the college and everybody was very happy with Dr. Stevenson and with Dr. Sowers the university just grew as far as faculty was concerned we got more women in we tried to go for more diverse and we would have maybe a black professor in for maybe teachers or something or coming in but they didn't stay there wasn't that thriving black community here it doesn't what they weren't happy they just didn't feel that comfort zone and they went on to other places but we had in our department we added German and Russian and we were very happy to do that when I came I remember my office first office I had was in Central and then I moved over to the hospital the old hospital where Stevenson Union stands now and that was really an experience because it was kind of spooky at night the stairs creaked and the doors creaked all of them you know shut them and you'd go to work at night and it was kind of an exciting experience and we had them and they always said it was haunted all sorts of stories about it et cetera our German to show you the provincial and I don't use this as any many people would say that sort of a put down but it was the faculty was very close as I said it was sort of like family we all ate together during lunch our Stevenson Union did not exist and we didn't have a regular lunch place but we all ate in the Brit ballroom we called it the Brit you know and there was a huge auditorium above you know in the Brit we called it a ballroom where we had dances and we were very close it was nice to be able to talk to people and PE and to talk over the games and talk to people in science and art it was a family and it was a lovely experience I truly love those beginning we call them the golden years you know the old faculty because we had a wonderful relationship with each other and then when they tore down the hospital and built the Stevenson Union it just changed that was a radical change because then they started having lounge rooms which they didn't have room before you know in the various buildings and the faculty went there to eat their lunch or the Mexican restaurants started across the street they started going other places and we never saw each other except at the big faculty meetings at the beginning and at the end we'd have some other departmental meetings or you know where we all get together but it wasn't the same thing there wasn't this camaraderie and another way to show this lovely type of feeling that we had with each other our German teacher had a goat a small goat and she was pregnant and she would bring the goat and put her underneath her desk up in the old hospital here on the campus and because she was afraid that she'd have her baby she was pregnant and then when the baby she brought the baby and put it in a box and etc and took care of it that just doesn't go now there would be 100 laws against it and it just wouldn't be but that was the type of SOC that we had and I haven't even gotten to SOSC so I'm sorry I guess I talked too much about a particular thing it was a lot of fun and then not only did the faculty change as far as not having this wonderful opportunity to eat with each other and share I'm telling the entire faculty of course we had wonderful departmental meetings but the staff it was good we had sort of a good bad situation there Dr. Cox came after Dr. Sowers and he changed the idea of instead of just introducing when the faculty came in September that the staff would come and all the new staff would be introduced along with the new faculty and that was even though we lost the comradery of the other that was a plus for everyone we truly had the opportunity to talk and to mingle and to welcome the staff as well as the new professors which I thought was a big step I don't know if it was forward it just was nice we really liked it because we felt sort of not as close as we were before but at least it gave that feeling that we are a close university because I'm sure big universities just don't have that I taught in Boulder University you know and I was there as an instructor two years and they didn't have any of that so I loved the feeling that SOC and SOSC had as concerns the faculty and the staff it was something that you just don't find in bigger universities and thank heaven for the the presidents that we had that would allow the vision to see this and that also had the vision to understand the sister city sister university concept that they all, every one of them truly imbibed into the fullest the they would even have some of the Guanajuato people for an entire year in their homes and really welcomed them and it was a wonderful experience I started directing the international plays then and that changed my life again not only the Guanajuato experience but directing the international students was just absolutely a learning experience to the nth degree not in the duties that I was supposed to do but it was volunteer and out of the regular academic situation and I learned so much from those people we had all of those countries and I had an opportunity to direct them and at that time the international show was very classical I loved that the students did all of the old fashion the traditional dances and songs and if they didn't know them I taught them because I did a folk dancing of all of these different things and you lot of songs from different regions and the personalities were just fabulous we'd have practices at 7 o'clock in the morning till 11 o'clock at night we'd practice up in the brick ballroom and then we changed it was a constant changing but the students had for example, you have the Japanese students you tell them to be there at 7 o'clock let's say in the evening to practice they'd come at 6 o'clock and they'd be all ready to go and they'd know what was going to do and you would just help them with staging and change a few things and etc and the Mexicans they'd come at 7 o'clock they'd come at 8 o'clock it just happened every year I tried to up the time on them but it was a wonderful thing to when the Arab students came that changed a lot there were a lot of things going on as you know in the 80's etc with the whole Arab situation it helped our professors to understand a lot of what was going on in the world I think that our Guanajuato program helped with the diversity and learning more about the Mexican culture and these very sophisticated Mexican people that came where we have our Shakespeare they have the Cervantes it's the most what should I say advanced city in all of Mexico to have all of the your ballet and opera the festival from all over the world they get the Bolshev Ballet Yorkville Harmonic in there for the Cervantes Festival they have the Shakespeare from London incredible what they had they would come and bring a lot of that here and we would be privy to that or we would go to Guanajuato but when the Arabs started coming in to finish that idea so that helped our faculty a lot to become interested in this diverse culture and then when the Middle East people started coming in that was another change for our faculty it was very important it was very good for the faculty in that they were able to discuss from a student's point of view these were passionate Arab from Yemen and Jordan and Arabia and just everywhere and even they amongst themselves had some conflict we could see that the faculty could see that but they did stick together here but it was interesting to talk to them and to educate the faculty of what was going on in that part of the world we needed that we needed Guanajuato it just helped the whole community to enter more into that what they talk about many times ashram people can talk the talk they don't have the opportunity to walk the walk it isn't that they don't want to they just don't have the opportunity and with these people coming in and talking to us and sharing and lifting the awareness and the consciousness was very important I think at that time so directing the students I learned a lot I was there directing when the Hawaiians for example remember when Hawaii wanted back away from being part of the states etc. I was privy to all of that and the students and what was going on in their country so we learned a lot and I remember that the Hawaiians wanted to put some of their politics and do something with that and incorporate and I said no we don't have religion and we don't have politics in this show and they were very adamant about it and so I had to take them aside and talk to them because they felt that Ashland just didn't know anything they were going to tell Ashland what was all about there were a lot of activists in that particular year so what we saw from the students coming in from the different countries was what was happening in their country and the reason I can say this is because I was involved in all of that aside from my academic job I've gotten into telling you about how the academics change with the different rectors and the paths that they took so I'm sorry I didn't get into SOSC or SOU and what happened and what we did and how we did it and how we had our lovely talks about it the pros and the cons of this whole thing so it was a growth process for the faculty especially those of us that had been there at the SOC, SOSC SOU time we grew along with all the things that were happening and I can safely say that the faculty was inspired and educated and made more aware of this because of the international students and all of this taking place and I I just truly appreciated the vision of all of our presidents of the university that came in that latched on to the sister city, you could see the worth of it and tried to help always the international students all of them went overboard to participate and also to see what was happened with the Klamath, you know, the Native American the Hispanics the faculty truly of course I was younger at SOU and I couldn't see all of that there and of course Denver and Boulder are just a melting pot so they had they could walk the walk all the time you know and we were constantly here in a learning period, you understand I really admire the faculty for doing that for having fun and learning and going through all the pain also and the pain and the pleasure of being part of a small college and all that that means especially as we're trying to enter into a more diverse community. Can you tell me a little bit more about the old hospital? It looked like an old hospital it looked just like it was wooden and it was creaky and it was you know those old it's just like you see in the movies it just looked like a big wooden house a huge big wooden house and but the stairs were beautiful you know just old old old wood it was lovely inside but there was a basement and there I think there were two big floors but there was a third kind of warehouse floor and basement was more for machines I guess and we they cleared all that out but we could see some machines downstairs and the it was wonderful because you know where you have special rooms for patients those are smaller rooms that was our offices it would just work just perfectly and then they would open two or three of the just like you have big hospital rooms where people don't have a lot of money and maybe 10 people that was perfect for a classroom so they really didn't have to do too much renovation you know yes yes uh huh so it it just it served a lot of purposes but it was getting dangerous you know it one of the steps just caved in one of the time that I was going up the steps you know it it wasn't safe it was a fire hazard to the nth degree you know so that's according to our standards today you know according to anything was a fire hazard according to our standards today but it was a lot of fun I wanted to ask and we don't really have any time left but it's about Betty Lou Dunlop can you talk about Betty Lou um well she um you know um there were there were other women professors and instructors after her in the PE department but she stood out because Betty Lou was in education education I know but in education but she had a lot of friends in the PE because we had women PE instructors okay what yes uh huh and um she stood out I think all the rest of the women faculty she had an aura about her that was um getting and have a lot of fun but there was always this thing that of her own person of her own persona that most people don't achieve she could get in and have a lot of fun and yet she could be command a lot of respect the men respected her the women respected her and um she was called upon to uh even amongst a lot of the men at that time to lead whatever they're doing you know I remember that there was a thing about joining the union you know and things like that she was one of the um she was a type that you know would just kind of lead but not in an activist she could get things done without being an activist you know what I mean and um she just commanded that respect she spoke slowly and she said what she meant she didn't go overboard and just rattle on and on and on did she advocate for the union did she advocate for what for the union I don't remember what she did no I don't think she did but she calmed she calmed a lot of spirits down you know and I had a role in that too and um I remember the order of the purple girdle did you go to any of those well you know that was the year that they disbanded it what year was that that was 19 the year that I came I think in the records through 1969 1969? well then they did it on their own you know because when Dr. Sowers came the the faculty women they did they just when Dr. Sowers came he he wanted the faculty to be more academic not so he never said that in so many words but there was something about him that demanded that he was an Ivy League person Stevenson was not and you know enough said you know you the faculty just catered to that particular type of personality and of course that would not work with Dr. Sowers or Mrs. Sowers personality I don't mean to be negative about that because it wasn't negative it just happened and so these other things were taking place but certainly not out in the open and it was sort of like you know by that time it wasn't needed no it wasn't needed and you know when I came we had all of the new faculty and the next year also new faculty was coming by the droves which was very odd for SOC and so all of these wives of the faculty people and the faculty had different ideas it was a whole new generation just like I don't fit in now to a lot of things you know that we even my generation we even disliked when we used to come here to the gym and register we loved that we'd get all of our students coming and we yell over and let's say to the art department hey you know I have a student here that's an art major but Spanish minor come on over and let's talk about that it was so wonderful to be able to in that day you know just go and help each other out and help the student out and the student really felt that they were getting attention because you could just say okay you're in psychology in Spanish this is going to work out beautiful you know what I would say that that ended about oh we had about eight years of that with Dr. Sowers yeah probably the end of Sowers you know going towards the end because we didn't want it to end you know I remember coming back with our bus from bus from Guanajuato and we were a little bit late and so we parked the bus right here in front of the the gym and all the kids came out with some braddles and they registered you know with all their suntans and you know and etc so then when we had to change and do the computer thing you know it just changed and the people never really got to see now they go to see a counselor they never really see the head of their department you know to talk about them and etc and we fought against that but you can't fight against okay and and you can tell when you're not part of this the whole thing and then when they started having I hated the fact that people in my department well we had to have office hours and I'm a person people person to the nth degree and I loved having those hours with my students you know but a couple of other people didn't and they went to the computer and you know they'd have that was their thing you know etc so we're all fogies now you know but I still have a person-to-person relationship I like to look someone in the eye you know and etc hey Lou Dunlop and Ben Bennett United Foundation Trust do you remember those words the United Foundation Trust do you remember it more like a group of social women or a group of- no I remember no the garter was definitely social the women got together and both of them were leaders these are powerful women I just thoroughly respected them and I just loved them to pieces