joining me, Jem. My name is Nonti Savic and I am a teacher and the second whole space holder and I'm here today talking to Jem Bendo, the founder and leader of DA, which is deep adaptation, and we're here to talk about, you know, what's happening with racism and our prejudices and how can we find ways to connect to each other and create spaces of healing and listening to each other on this topic. And Jem, maybe you can tell us about yourself, who you are and why do you do what you do. Okay, the first bit's easy, the second bit's quite, quite big. Why do I do what I do? I'll come to that. So yeah, I'm a professor of sustainability leadership at the University of Cumbria in the UK. I've been only part-time there for a few years now, since I got into what we now call deep adaptation. So for the last year and a half I've been volunteering to set up the deep adaptation forum, which I've just stepped back from. I'm no longer involved operationally, but we've got a team of four people, over 100 volunteers around the world, and about 15,000 people actively engaged in the platforms online, and there are local groups around the world. And it's a really tough topic. I mean, deep adaptation describes a framework, a way of looking at the future, which is an anticipation of the collapse of modern societies, industrial consumer societies, the one that I live in, you live in, the societies that have supermarkets and have cash machines, and all that kind of way of life. And we anticipate a collapse because of the pace of environmental change, particularly climate change, and how it's damaging the basis of society, for example, agriculture. But we don't want to just run away to the hills with weapons. Instead, we want to look at this trouble in a curious, kind, compassionate, creative way. We want to try and reduce harm. If we can slow it down, and create a softer crash somehow, great. But also, if we can't, we want to learn anyway, about why we got into this mess, and how do we not make it worse? Because many people, I mean, it's already happening, many people are feeling more vulnerable, feeling more distressed, feeling less satisfied about their lives. And that means that they're open to manipulation by people who just want to give them a silly story of safety or a simple story of blame, rather than thinking, well, what have we done? Why has this happened? What can we learn? And how can we try and make it a bit better? So, that's why I do what I do. It's to try and respond to this predicament with a sort of an open mind and an open heart, because I didn't really know how else to respond. Once I reach the conclusion that we can't reform the current modern consumer capitalist system, we've tried for decades, it's not happening. So, massive change is coming, disruption is coming. I wanted to, I wanted to, yeah, find people to talk about it with. And that's what also all these thousands of people in the Deep Adaptation Forum have wanted to do. And so, yeah, that's why I do what I do. I've realized many people who have this awareness then go on a journey similar to mine, which is to ask deep questions about the meaning of life, because suddenly you, if you think normal life is going to collapse, you're much less bothered with trying to have a career progression and save money for the future and impress your friends, colleagues, and family in the old ways that you might have wanted to. Everything can be questioned. And many people are really thinking they want to live in truth and love. And those are just, can seem like trite words, but truth therefore involves listening to multiple perspectives, including those which make you feel a bit, and love totally just means also being open to criticism, open to self-critique, open to whatever you discover, unlearning anything that you might need to unlearn. Which is also why I'm very interested in this topic that you work on, Nanti, and why it's really important for the Deep Adaptation community in general, and then the forum in particular. Yeah, thank you. I mean, you mentioned a lot of things that I very much relate to. I'm very much involved in climate crisis, climate change movements, or if you want to call them environmental movements. And I have been very much active in Europe in different organizations, that's the commoners and also being living in the intentional eco-villages in Europe. And yeah, being from South Africa, I'm an African, I'm a Black woman from Africa who lives in the philosophy of Ubuntu. And for me, it's very, very concerning also to see what the world has come into, the separation that we have, the idea of the illusion, as I believe it is of separation from each other, from other beings in the Earth, and also just from Earth itself, just the belief that we are separate from the Earth itself. I believe this is what has brought us where we are today. And how do we walk back into the center? I call it the center. How do we go back into that center where we are having the awareness of reconnecting to each other, where we're having the awareness of really working with the Earth and respecting the Earth and finding ways if we can, if we still have time. I don't know, that's debatable, I guess. If do we have time or no, this is just the end of it. And my experiences in Europe, when I came to Europe, I found that in the environmental movements mostly, there were a lot of, I call it repeating the patterns, because most of the people who are involved in environmental movements are white, middle class people who have good, who have really good intention to do something about what's happening in the planet. But I also realized that there was repetition of certain patterns, colonial way of thinking, Eurocentric way of thinking, so their approach was not so much of a worldview, even though it was, it's being said, we are saving the planet, and yet it does, it felt like it was not including, it's not including all the voices from the different parts of the world. And for me, this is of deep concern. And also, as I find myself in most places, being one of the few people of color, or being the only person of color, and it concerns me a lot, not only me, of course, it's a topic that is out there of how do we make sure these movements include all the voices? And, I mean, you as a white man, I think you identify as a cease white man, how do you, and you're in a leadership position, so what has been your process, your learning process of, hey, wait a minute, something here is not quite inclusive, if I have to use those words, I don't really like those words, but it's like, yeah, where are the other people? I have a young lady who's white from Switzerland, she says, when I enter a room, the question I ask myself is, who's not here and why they are not here? So, every time I enter a space of environmental activism, it's white people, middle class white people, even, for example, in the eco-village movement, that's an amazing movement that I'm involved in, it's also still in Europe, very white middle class, and the question is, how do we change that? Yeah, yeah, lots of important questions there. I'm also aware now of how some people in the environmental movement can get a bit defensive as well when such questions or critiques are raised, because also sometimes they're made in order to criticise and delegitimize the cause, which I think is therefore a reason for actually, strategically, is why will environmentalists should pay great attention to this, even just for strategic reasons, but I think there are very deep philosophical reasons as well, why, and super practical and personable and emotional reasons why to engage with this. So, where to start? Okay, I'll say this first, because I'm on a journey on racism, anti-racism, coloniality and decolonisation. I've been on a bigger, longer journey around sexism, patriarchy and anti-patriarchy, but yeah, if go back not even a year, about 18 months, and about that, about a year to 18 months, I think someone did say to me, oh, Jenny, you're just racist like the rest of us, and yeah, okay, I don't think they were trying to be helpful, but anyway, my response to that was like, what? It's seen as an insult, rather than as an invitation to look at how I might have unconscious biases of prejudice in me, like other people do, and that rather than looking at that in a way of wither with shame or any defensiveness, but actually think those unconscious biases and prejudices in me are barriers to my fuller, more open connection with other people, and they are barriers to me participating in all the things I say I want to do. I say I want to create a fairer kind of world, even if we're crashing. Well, unconscious biases are barriers to me to participate in a fairer kind of world, so I have changed to see it in the way now that, yeah, there are patterns of racism and racial prejudice in our society, and therefore also in particular movements and groups, and therefore working through us, all of us, we're reproducing various different patterns, and so becoming more aware of that is an opportunity rather than a pain. Now, in the environmental space, I think it's important to recognize that there are people of color and also in leadership positions in environmental groups, environmental movements, so they are there, but also it's still exactly as you say, there is a predominance of white middle class people in Western environmental movements, and deep adaptation, it's questionable whether it is an environmental movement, it's certainly a lot of the people have come to it through that, but some people haven't. So it is an open question about why it is still quite white, and also questions of economics as well, it's still quite middle class, perhaps because of the kinds of people who would have access to my writing, and originally I published my paper for a very particular audience of people involved in management studies and management consulting, and as a British white academic, so it could be because of that. But yeah, I am really happy that as a result of the consultation process earlier this year, the volunteers themselves identified increasing diversity and inclusion, and also looking at the notion of decolonization, some people also like to talk about co-liberation from prejudice, this has been made a topic to support anyone who wants to engage in it in the forum, and I hope people see it as an opportunity that it fits in this idea of trying to be kinder and wiser in the face of collapse, I hope people see it as fitting with the idea of, yeah, how do we not make matters worse as more people feel vulnerable and confused and scared as societies get a bit messed up? So that didn't answer your question on my journey as such, did it? But why I see it as, there are other reasons why I see it as relevant as well. I mean, if we didn't have racism, we couldn't have had colonialism, if we didn't have colonialism, we couldn't have had global capitalism, if we didn't have global capitalism, we couldn't have had rampant, crazy consumerism, and if we didn't have that, we wouldn't have had the ecological and climate crisis and be facing within the sixth mass extinction. So it's kind of a no-brainer to look at racial repression and exploitation as part of the healing around the climate crisis. Yeah, I think you actually did give me a very nice explanation of your journey, and thank you for sharing that. And in this journey, you also talked about that you've been working a lot on patriarchy that has been your focus until the past.   It's there, it's in our education systems, it's just there. Yeah, I think it's almost like people need stories to help them realize that it doesn't mean you're going to swear at someone because they look different to you. You might even go up to someone and be extra friendly because they look different to you. It may not occur to you that your psychologist who you only ever spoke to on the phone when you meet them, oh, she's black. It's very subtle. And if we pretend it's not there, then we are upholding patterns of behavior without realizing it, which can be problematic and are reported as being problematic by people. So I think it's that people don't, they just don't realize because they assume that racism means being deliberately nasty. Yeah, it's like a personal, it's almost a sense of people, white people, we have to to be clear. It's, it's almost like you're saying, I'm a good person. Oh, I, I have friends who are black. I, my partner is black, my children are half black, half white. I cannot possibly be racist. I have a project in Africa. So you always get these different kinds of, of excuses and, and because people don't realize that it's actually deeply, deeply invaded in us, it's in our cellular level, it's in our psyche, it's in our psychology, it's in everything that we are, it's invaded. As you were, you were saying before, it's in capitalism, it's in the colonia. So it's in our way of consumerism, it's in everything. So how, I mean, I think it's really important that we always highlight that it's not a personal attack.  If somebody makes you aware of your racism, it's just what is, it's in the system. And I find that sometimes it's really difficult as a person of color as a black woman to bring that message across. And it seems like we need more white people who have awareness of this, and who actually talk about it more. I have a saying that says, dear white people who are loving, caring, and unconsciously racist, because I have white people in my life, 90% of my life is, I spend it with white people who are really loving people, really loving people. Yet they are unconsciously racist. There's a lot of micro and macro aggressions that they are always delivering every day. So for me, hence, I'm doing this work as well, besides holding ceremonies and things. So how do we? Why? It's always a question, yeah, how do we? No, no, what's your why?  Yeah, there's many levels of answering that question. This is, this is where life puts me. This is where I find myself in my life. It seems it's like my, my life journey has constantly, I find myself in the space of white people. And on top of that, of course, it's a choice. I can always get away. But this is the thing, whether we are around white people or not, for us as people of color, racism is affecting us all the time. It's something we talk about all the time. It's something we have awareness of all the time. It's something that decides where are we born? And if, what is the survival rates of the children that are born in that area, which is, you know, segregation. I mean, I was born in Apartheid, South Africa, just to, to mention that. So I know how it's like really to, to live in segregation area, segregated areas, which are designed by the law to separate. So for me, the story of racism is very strong, just like it's strong in, in every person of color. But with white people, I find that it's not something, it's like you can be at the age you are now without, without ever having to think, what does it mean being white? Like really just deeply discussing how you affect the world or how the world affects you as a white person. And what, hmm, yeah, like what power you hold. It's like there's no awareness of that. And with us, there's a very strong awareness of that, of the way we, I always say to people, it's, it's, it's the way I eat, the way I walk, who I am, my, my, my ancestors, how they lived and how they processed their lives was affected by racism, very strongly by corona. So therefore, there is no way of me, a friend asked me, why do you, did you always know that you're going to be teaching about racism? I said, no, I know I'm a teacher and I love to teach and I love to share knowledge. But racism is not something that I, I, I aspire to teach about. It's a necessity. And for me, it's this dream of seeing that we remember that we are a human race that we forgot about that, that coming back into the center of we are a human race and bringing that awareness to the white people in the sense that the idea of separation is an illusion in one level. That's in the spiritual level. But in the everyday physical level that your unconscious racism harms me and it continues to harm me every day. And it continues to harm the people of color that the more you deny it, you are continuously harming people who share this planet with you. So it would be, I think it'd be helpful if, for me, but also anyone who watches us talk, to have a, have an example, like in your experience in European, our environmental movement or eco-village movement of a micro racism or a micro violence or micro aggression where it's, it's, it's reflective of the unconscious racism that then people, because I think a lot of people like me need to still have our attention brought to what is a biased, prejudiced way of thinking or not, or not thinking or behaving or not behaving, you know. I, well, yeah, that's a hard one. It should be easy because it's like so many that have because it's like so many, like, which one do I pick? I think just like a simple, a simple thing as a really, when you have a loving kind friend who really and says, we want to go to Africa to help African people. I mean, just those words. Somebody might say, what's wrong with that? Of course I want to go to Africa to help. And there's so many levels of that is what, what, do, do you have an understanding of why Africa is the way it is in terms of economy, in terms of, you know, cultural, losing their culture, ecological? Do you have the history because the schools in Europe don't teach colonial history, you know, they don't teach the economics of where, you know, how has it impacted the countries that were colonized and how the economy system functions. So if you say from the bottom of your heart and you're saying, I'm going to help Africa, that is racist, that is a microaggression, because you are assuming that African people cannot help themselves. Because of course of what you have seen, and you see the poverty, and you are assuming that really Africa is all about poverty. But the thing to the right thing or should I say a proposal, something that would be good to say would be, how can we work together? How can I go and work together with Africans and see how can I support them? For example, I have access to the economy because I'm European. I'm in Europe. I have easily access to funding. And how can the Africans themselves come up with ideas of how they want to improve their communities? Because we do have ideas. We do know what we want. We have indigenous knowledge systems that are amazing, that are powerful, which then comes back to these indigenous knowledge systems could be very helpful in the environmental movements. So if the white middle class who are involved in the environmental movements actually also involve indigenous people and people of color more and bring them into the table, a lot of knowledge could be shared. So the science and indigenous knowledge could actually create a strong bridge to bring up, I don't want to say solutions, but a new way of living, a new way of maybe finding ways to save the planet. So I think I'm going far now because microaggressions is like so many of them. But this is just one obvious one. You know, the idea of we as white people, we are going somewhere, we're going to the east, we're going to Africa to help Africa, to do a project because we want to help. I think the second one also is I've seen a lot of presentations. There's a lot of presentations that from environmental young people who go, I mean, I go to a lot of conferences and the presentations only say we're talking about global warming or global crisis. And then it will get into, if we don't stop now, if we don't change, we're going to have a certain number of climate refugees. We're going to, this is what's going to be happening. We're going to lose a certain number of animal species, or we've already lost so much. And I always say this is a trigger. This is such a trigger because if you are talking about climate crisis, and yet you are standing there, you're doing a presentation and it's only focusing on what's going to be coming in neuro, you are doing injustice to the places, other places in the world, especially the global south that has already has a high number of climate refugees that already has been experiencing disasters. And the reason for that is because of the lifestyle that we are living in the northern countries. You have this glamorous lifestyle of consumerism, which then goes and affects people who are not living that kind of lifestyle. So I would like to see more presentations like that, that take that responsibility. Yeah, I agree. And I do wonder whether we can move from the discussion of a forthcoming societal collapse to recognition of current or just in the recent past massive disruption and indeed breakdown of what societies with famine mass migration. So the question then becomes can people who anticipate collapse of their own way of life respond in a way which includes solidarity and support. So not just your old fashioned view of send a check to Oxfam, but a bit more solidarity and support with people being affected. And of course, if there is an increase in humanitarian aid for people in disaster zones, then good. But yeah, just at the moment, it's not that big in the conversations I see in the deep adaptation forum. It's not. And I hope it will become more that idea of, yeah, people are being displaced, people are going hungry, people are dying right now because of disasters made worse by climate change. What can we do to help right now? And to see that as very coherent with the broader response to this predicament, that would be would be good. I just thought I'd share with you one story from a friend of mine. He's from Uganda. He grew up in Switzerland. And now he's moved to Australia. And he has two sons. And he used he told me this in order to help me understand racism in those sort of subtle unconscious micro violences. And it was a parent teachers evening and he went to the school and the teacher said we're really happy with your son. He's doing really well. And my friend said, really, I look at these grades and I've looked at your average class grades and I see he's below average. Why is that doing really well? And the teacher said, oh, yeah, but you know, we think he's doing really well. And then so my friend would say, okay, well, you know, I run my own investment fund. I have a master's. His mother, my wife has a PhD and is one of the most senior executives in one of Australia's largest companies. Our son being below average, we can't understand. Are you telling everybody who's below average that they're doing really well? And yes, he was the only black child in the class. And so he was saying, this is the systemic and unconscious racism. Even when that teacher was, yeah, you can see. So, yeah, there's just lower expectations from that teacher being expressed because of the child's colour. And if the child was doing very well, it would be almost like a surprise.   I'm so surprised that you are so smart. I get that a lot. And I also get a lot of, oh, but you didn't do the Excel sheet very well. So it's always, there's always something. And the thing is for me, the main thing is not to be defensive, to learn to be uncomfortable. For white people, I invite white people to open themselves into the space of being uncomfortable when it comes to the race topic. So how is that working for you, inviting people to be uncomfortable? And I say that because I know that some people, when they see an invitation to do diversity, inclusion, or racial justice training, or decolonisation training, there's a bit of an allergic reaction. It's almost like by the very fact this training exists, it's sort of criticising me. And how in your, do you need to make it invitational? Or is that kind of like an extra aggression? Like the idea that you've got to be worried about white people getting annoyed with you asking people to look at this and be okay with being uncomfortable about it? Or do you try and make it invitational? Or is there a role for people like me to try and help make it invitational? Or what do we do? We're recognising there's that, can be that negative reaction to this topic amongst some white people. So I, it is, it shouldn't be me as a person of colour that is trying to invite white people into the space of race work. What we as people of colour is, we, we will like why people to know and understand that this racism is traumatising for us. And every time we enter into a conversation about racism, we are re-traumatising ourselves, basically. It's extremely, if you have experience, you can even see it in the body language of a person of colour. Sometimes it's shaking and people might think, oh you're being aggressive, but yes, there is anger behind that for sure, but it's also a trauma. So what we need is a call for more white allies. And what does it mean to be a white ally? Is that you are taking the steps of recognising your own internalised racism and you are taking the steps of educating people from your white community about racism and inviting them into the spaces. So therefore, a man like you, who is in a leadership position, for me, it's of highly importance that you take on the responsibility of saying, this is my journey and this is what I'm understanding about racism and this is how it has impact the world and this is how it has impact some people who live with us on this planet and these are the things we can do to make it better or to make it go away. So we need, it's, yeah, I'm having double signals because as a part of me that feels like as a black person of colour, I shouldn't be like, oh we need white people, more white people too, it has to come from your communities. We need more awareness from the white people, more awareness, more talking, more sharing, more vulnerability. I use the word vulnerability because it is a difficult topic and you are going to be uncomfortable and you need to allow yourself to be vulnerable and also what I find to be a challenge is it's very challenging for a white mind to realise that there is something that has been happening in this planet for so many, for about 400 years that they don't know much about because of exactly the segregation. So it's almost like if I'm an academic and I'm white, how can I not have had known this was really happening? Do you know what I mean? It's a sense of there's something happening and I don't know anything about and the person of colour is coming to tell me there's something that's been happening that I don't know anything about. That must be really hard for the system and the psyche to absorb and to understand. And so the invitation for me is to the leadership and also to just an average white person to start the process of being uncomfortable and to teach each other and to hold more spaces to talk about this topic and to teach others how this connects to everything else like you were saying before, to capitalism, to climate crisis. It's a responsibility. So the one thing you said which really I hadn't quite realised before was how talking about racism and therefore for example instances of racism or hearing yet again stories about well I'm not racist or it's not so bad or all of that is traumatising. I hadn't fully appreciated that before and therefore it really does present a challenge for say having racial prejudice and diversity and inclusion and that has a topic with a mixed race gathering because obviously then the stumbles from an unconscious racist pattern will be tough for people of colour in that context. So yeah I can see the challenge there and also then that so it's up to people like me perhaps or not necessarily yeah but white people in general who have reached a point of realising that we are all subconsciously recovering racists should we say. So then to then find out ways of connecting, building bridges, opening doors for more people to come and white people to come and look at that and engage in that conversation. It's for us to think of that rather than to expect people of colour to work out how to be nice and not upset people on this topic. But I'm fairly new to this so I don't really know how you know I don't know the full spectrum of resistances to this. I do know it would be good to make it invitational and for me I'm beginning to see that I can I mean I'm looking forward to your training I'm coming on it and I'm seeing it as another way of removing unconscious barriers inside me barriers to connection. So it's in the similar way also to and removing unconscious rules on my own behaviour. So that's where what I got from say the whole engagement with patriarchy and anti-patriarchy over the last few years. I didn't realise how norms of behaviour expect norms of for example how people show up in groups and who speaks the most and the nature or the content of their utterances. How that is gendered and how that left unquestioned left unbalanced left imbalance means that I'm poorer everyone's poorer and so yeah it's an opportunity to because you become more aware of this it's an opportunity to to get to have more connection with more people whoever they are. Yeah and also I mean learning from other cultures and and it's like you miss out it's not only that racism is bad as it's oppressing people of colour it is also in a way bad for white people because then it separates you from from us people of colour it separates you from all this diversity and all this enrichness um it just separates us as human beings and how rich can we can we be if we are together sharing all this knowledge and all this information together so white people also miss out on engaging in a deep meaningful level with people of other cultures you know because you already enter a space as I am a white person or I'm a white male as you were talking about patriarchy so since you already have this deep understanding we always use that sometimes there the example of sexism that you know you can always take examples from that and apply them into racism because then it will be like in a room uh full of men and women it's the man that will speak more um always having something to say and the women speak less so you can also see in a room full of white people and people of colour it's the white people that will always speak more take up space and feel like they're the ones that have the knowledge and the people of colour silence so it's always also it helps to have the strong background in in in feminism work or patriarchy then you can always somehow make examples actually um from that yeah and apply it to racism work when people are not are failing to understand or connect because it happens people shut down white people shut down during trainings um when you talk about racism in your whole system of white people shuts down because you don't want to hear that's the reaction you freeze and when you freeze your brain doesn't want to receive information but then if you use something that has already somehow been accepted then it's easier for people to absorb and be more open to hear um and I also just want to say the trainings the training that's going to be coming up as well it's just a window it's a it's like opening a window you know and we shouldn't do things I wanted to say um white people should be kind to each other so it's it's not about oh look I've done racism work for the past two years and you are still racist you know pointing fingers at the other white people who are still trying to figure that out um I don't believe in that I believe that we should always have compassion uh and find ways to really hold the spaces for others and um somebody can argue and say we don't have time yes in some level we don't have time just that we don't have time with climate crisis but also pointing fingers doesn't really help it creates more walls and another thing is to know that that these trainings are not enough they're not you can't just say I went to a training or I'm going to another training there has to be a willingness to to really imply I mean apply what you're learning in your personal life in your community um and and make notes for yourself from now on what are the steps that I'm going to take to be a white ally I I think for me part of the white allyship is to look at how we respond to the way identity politics is being used to mobilize the right wing and undermine the left wing and I don't know what we do about that but this is a this is a we're seeing it um wait it's not not just in terms of racial justice and healing but also gender justice and healing and uh it's it's um it's being described by both those two things are being described by the right wing in many countries as sort of an attack on uh our national culture and pride uh our national culture and pride and in a way that is weaponized through facebook ads and is used to um support idiots to gain power and and the argument is that the so-called progressive politics and various social movements end up going around in circles arguing about um are you you know have we have paid enough attention to gender justice racial justice have we paid enough attention to economic inclusion and and so on and and and transgender issues and uh are we ableist and etc etc etc and so I'm I'm interested in how because it does seem that there is this reaction that's being weaponized by the right wing and if that is the case then how do we combat that and and how do we reframe so let's say we I'm talking about the white allies how do white allies reframe their engagement in racial justice and healing in a way that is supportive of and honoring the humanity of all white people anywhere of any economic status um that's something that needs to somehow to me it looks like it needs to be worked on um because otherwise yeah you've got all these angry white men telling telling people to vote for them and um because then they're more proud of their country than the opposition so um if you have any thoughts on how we go about that we white allies go about that I can't I really yeah there's so many levels like it's so complex I always say it's so complex it's it's like this and it's like that and and for me it's it's about what skills do you have or not only skills but what what where can you where do you have the most voice you know where do you have you feel you have the most power where you can influence and if it's politics then you need to be in there and being a white ally and making it making visible all the ugly ways of how systemic racism functions if you are a mom um you know who's the stay stay at home mom where in your circles can you be effective and where in your circles can you be the one that brings that message to your community um so it's it's such endless it's not for us also again people of color to just dish out and say this is what you should be doing a b c d e and f no it's um it's something that you need to figure out on where can you be influential as a white person where do you have the power and how do you choose to use that power especially also when it comes to the injustices um that are happening in the world so we can't always be saying this is what you need to do to be doing because what i might feel the next person of color might say no but i think uh you know the first place that we should be working on is this and everybody has their own opinion and their own so for me it's you take it on yourself and you say i have influence in this area and i'm passionate about this area so i'm going to go in there and and do what i can to be a white ally and and actually influence and use my power to to change things in that area well hopefully uh the deep adaptation forum the deep adaptation wider community can be itself more inclusive diverse but also have more white allies as you say in in wider society and where people will work it out for themselves as you also invite us to um so uh yeah good good to uh yeah i'm i'm i've benefited from the impetus on this topic coming from the members of the forum itself it's been it's certainly a bottom-up initiative as a response to the the strategy dialogue we had with volunteers and others and uh yeah they want to look at this and that's because there's an aspiration for the deep adaptation forum and community to be more than just a club of people who like talking to each other and share common interests they actually want to be relevant in society they want to therefore have an influence and therefore diversity becomes even even more important um yeah thank you and also just to say not to just have diversity for the sake of diversity i have to say that i've been in this the diversity and inclusion group of the da that's just been founded and been working on that and it's important to make sure that when you form this kind of spaces it's not just diversity for the sake of diversity look at us because that also creates even more damage to the people of color that you bring in so it's actually really saying we are really working and we are doing the work and we are looking at ourselves and the personnel level and the group structure that we are actually implementing the change and we want to see change not only in us as individuals but in the whole organization so for me it's been really a beautiful journey to see that the da has created a space of diversity and inclusion and i'm really hoping well so far the people that i've worked with the group that i've worked with i see progress and i and i'm hopeful i'm really hopeful for the future and i hope the people i know there's people from different countries especially the eastern europe who don't very much identify sometimes some of them with colonial and racism work but i'm hoping that there's a window there that's of openness to see how as white people just in this in the spectrum of the whole planet yeah how they move about and how they influence the world and that this topic is also important for them as well something to look at and yeah we are an international group and quite diverse in our holding group and but not very not very diverse racially speaking in in the membership at the moment but uh yeah we'll see how that changes over time and and it's not just that it's also just how do we become more supportive of other communities other movements um that's what i'm better understand them and better engage with them i say we because i'll still be involved even though i've now left the core team i'm not involved in daily operations but i'm one of the 14 holding group members so i sort of will and i'll participate as a volunteer i'll be coming on your course therefore as a volunteer oh wow great not as in not volunteering for you but i mean you know as well not yet anyway thank you jen uh well i don't know i think that's it's for now okay cheers yeah thank you for this uh yeah rich conversation and i hope that we can have i don't know another one also and go deeper maybe into other topics as well and yeah thank you so much good and thank you for thank you it's been uh it's been helpful not just the whole thing's been helpful so not just the hour we've spent together now but also just pondering it over the last last week so since we've chatted and having conversations with other people i i had a long chat over lunch today about racism and unconscious racism and um you know he's from sweden married to a kenyan and just just exploring stuff and it's just really helpful for me and and shows to me how i had i had to de-prioritize this issue in my own life in the last few years um yeah so so thank you for instigating that in me through the da world yeah cheers well thank you thank you for the work you do and for being you take care bye bye bye


and then on the calculation of one ounce per acre Was that is that just the average you're talking about or was that a measured amount that you applied on per acre basis? That's on average and it was the eight acres was not like a uniform blanket of Broom There would be big patches here and then a couple of outliers and so overall we were treating about eight acres per year and and we used eight ounces This year and so basically in some areas of the more of a concentrate than Okay, and in terms of the way this was worded with the clause on there until an integrated pest management policy can be adopted I mean, I can't see that that would lead one to say well, maybe life will say will become part of the integrated pest management policy that's adopted I'm sure that Santa Cruz will be looking at that as part of their as part of their study Right, just not mention that the city of Santa Cruz has been Wife is safe until their integrated pest management So you're basically saying let's do the same thing and and perhaps reconsider it in the future Is that what you'd like to have done? Have a public process where people can provide input and we can have you know the science and a public Process where we can create a pest management plan that works for us But that would in your community, but that would in your view include life I'm not saying that I'm saying it would be up to the community to have that public debate And they and it would be up to this board and the community at that time I mean, we didn't have a bit of a debate on that in the last Few months of the year Didn't get through the blue ribbon committee. I don't think they have problems I know that the blue ribbon committee at this point is just some other things that We didn't complete the blue ribbon committee is a year and a half into May or may 17 so we're going on to almost two years. You know, I mean That doesn't seem to be a commitment to doing Perhaps just sort of leaving it out there I I can go either way what either striking the clause until an integrated pest management policy can be adopted Or not because in the end of the day if the integrated pest management policy comes back with A life of state as part of that I'd simply move to to strike it I mean, I suppose it would be interesting to See what you come back with and support of that The use of life of state, but it's we kind of made our positions clear on that over the last few months So if you did you did you know director's one made up motion To adopt as is So basically we would basically cross out the infill and then put Band Yeah, yeah, we can't Let a little point about this as far as they move ahead with the pest integrated pest management I think at the same time The board and the the district has to look at this piece of property You know, I've got some quite a bit of history where one board has come in and spent 20 30 thousand dollars on A basic feces eradication And then all of a sudden nothing happens for two or three years and it comes back double We've been doing this back and forth for quite a while So where we get a start on it and then we let it go for a couple years and the work we done was lost and the money was spent We need to if we don't we need to develop a plan to eradicate the invasive species on this watershed and continue with And how we do that pulling it life of fate whatever But we need and we do have a data species that we have to protect free on this property We extract a large amount of water off where we have to be put stewards of this property So It has to go at the same time. We're looking at integrated pest management. We need to develop A program to manage this parcel. I'm sorry. I forgot to ask one question Is these 14 acres containing our wells? It's unparsal of our wells But our wells asking you is right in the middle of that one else So one of the other things that we might want to Think about as well is whether or not it is it is something that other organizations who are more tactically and financially Focused on preservation like this might want to I'm mostly concerned about producing water and making sure that we have the watersheds to be able to do that Our business isn't As as it is with the land trust or other people who are more set up to Strategically do that kind of preservation and that might be another part of the conversation Margaret's have her hand So the use of life to say Seems to be yeah, I look out at the audience and I see most of you probably are of the age where you were probably informed by Rachel Carson's silent spring There's every reason to consider the safety of Our own employees our residents and the landscape that we are stewards of The same time. I don't think it's fair for our ratepayers And honest of us to think about and talk about this without the context of how much it costs To eradicate the broom on those lands that we are stewards of Through physical means How much does it how much more would it cost To do this management of this invasive species and work on a long term eradication You know mission eradication For 50 years maybe the seed bank last 50 years. How much more does it cost? I don't see any value. There's no intrinsic value in glyphosate And I wouldn't advocate for its use Unless the board and until the board makes a conscious weighed choice about this is how much it costs To do it otherwise This is how much it costs Including its risks to use glyphosate And you have those things side by side and you look at it There's another piece that I want to point out Is that we've made much a do and had a lot of sturm and dring about the use of glyphosate in this district We've used 16 ounces in two years How many gallons Are sold by the local hardware stores to people who are not trained Don't use personal protective equipment and fling this stuff around like Used socks or something. You know just like indiscriminately How many gallons how many tankers of this stuff is used by Caltrans PG&E around their power poles By the county by whomever else is responsible for roadside vegetation management or other infrastructure management If we want to take on this crusade because it's the right thing to do and we remember Our brothers and sisters the bugs in the trees And thank you for that Are we prepared to take on the people who are using this not a gallon not a cup But a freaking drum at a time Otherwise it's like we're just hitting our own selves in the thumb with a hammer Oh, let's pick on ourselves and make it harder for ourselves and spend more money to do something That we think is important to do than we needed to spend I know you guys are really keen on fiscal conservatism and fiscal stewardship You can't have the conversation about watershed management and invasive species management And use of glyphosate without bringing that question into the conversation So I would support a ban on glyphosate But not out of the context of let's acknowledge the long-term stewardship costs Okay, uh Chris Thank you. Um I um You know, I've heard a lot of good stuff that you said and and You know personally I pull my room at my house every year Because my neighbor doesn't and it does I finally asked him could I come over to his house and hold the stuff and he let me But But I don't live in the sand hill area and I actually had a conversation about this with mark stone And he said well, you know, I was the person who pushed for the county to ban it And got it banned in the county when when I was a supervisor and I said, yes, I do know that and uh, and I said But if you physically remove the plants from the sand hill Environment like I do at home There are protected species there that you're going to be Disturbing their habitat by by yanking these things and they're pulling them And he said oh In that case if you do that That would be what's called a taking under the environmental Protection or whatever that ended some environmental law that I don't know the name of But it would be a violation that the district could be sued for Was the upshot of what he was telling me because you would actually be violating a protected habitat by yanking the rooms out and disturbing that Under underground area where some of these protected species live and messed and whatever else so That other than what mark told me I'm completely ignorant about that but it was something that he raised that Needs to go into the calculation as far as that's why you need to pull from it But apparently according to him that would still be illegal So it wouldn't be issued if you've got a pull the pull permit wouldn't be issued Well, if it was issued it couldn't be but then so my question would be then if it couldn't be pulled because of what mark was saying Then we would need another option and so it seems like If we develop the other option before we did the ban and I completely understand the desire for the ban I don't like this stuff either And don't use it But if we didn't develop an alternative to it before we banned it Then we'd be in the position of Having the sandhills look like my neighbor's yard just covered with this stuff Um and like like rick said we've been there before you know where we got it all under control and then all of a sudden it's back because Uh, we didn't have a strategy to control it Chris moran I'm sorry rick moran. Thank you. Sorry Um, I'm being called chris um In 2015 the world health organization, uh, a agency the international agency for cancer research Categorize glyphosate as a probable carcinogen to human beings 2015 that started my learning about more about this issue All right after that the california office of an environmental health hazard assessment Otherwise known as prop 65 Said it was a probable human carcinogen Okay, california supreme court reiterated that uh Former operations director rick rogers stopped using glyphosate in 2017 because he had understood the same kind of information that's going on A jury has ruled in benesia that Monsanto is held liable for causing the non-hotchkins lupoma cancer to this person. Okay the um public stock of monsanto's public or parent company bear Since that ruling has lost 40 percent of its stock value The largest stock value drop in the history of the german stock market Okay, the people have spoken agencies have spoken. All right Uh, there is a growing number of districts water districts california cities parks departments school districts and various other public agencies that manage vegetation and are banning this product The tide has turned on glyphosate. You are either going to go with the tide or you are going to resist this And it's going to cost you a lot of money and put people at risk All right, I support having a non conditional ban on glyphosate not until City of Santa Cruz does its study they can do their study These people these agencies have made their study and it voted. All right The people of san of the san Lorenzo valley water district had three candidates that spoke clearly about this And they voted overwhelming for them The people of santa cruz of san Lorenzo valley have heard this have discussed it And they are ready for it to be banned now. Thank you very much. Thank you I can't oh jenny Is this being pro glyphosate and will Not be able to continue to serve on the environmental committee Some light due to that This perception by the new board, but I would like to make my position very clear. I am not pro glyphosate If there were time I would love to describe how very erroneous that perception is But it is not as important as describing what i'm really a favor of Which is the sandhills and protecting our local biodiversity Getting lost in this controversy is the 14 acres of sandhills parkland habitat that is 25 of all that remain in the world San Lorenzo valley water district owns 25 of the most unique and threatened habitat of one of the most unique and threatened habitat types in the world Only 57 acres total and the only place it all exists is right here in santa cruz It is hard to overstate how unique and wonderful our santa cruz mountains are Biologically, we are a biodiversity hot spot within a hot spot. Just yesterday. I received the new issue of flora with the annual treasure hunt review And what do I find featured our sandhills and two of our many sandhills endangered species Why do we care about preserving this biodiversity? Many people think furry and cute species Or maybe the species that we eat are the only ones we should really consider saving but this is wrong There are many arguments for preserving biodiversity, but I will just mention a few Although they don't ever gain much traction anywhere We should all consider the moral and philosophical aspect of humanity causing the planet's six mass extinction event Who are we as a species and what does that say about us? What does it say about us here in santa cruz if we willfully perpetuate this global pattern? of biological annihilation There are also practical arguments famously although leopold's first law of intelligent tinkering Keep all the pieces. I also prefer to say let's not pop the rivets on our little spaceship The sandhills is our own canary in a coal mine Our biological infrastructure is just as important as any of our other infrastructure Now imagine engineering being told that they could no longer use Causing mechanical excavation equipment and they would have to use shovels to dig out and replace a big water mean This and then suggesting that they could use volunteers to do the extra work and reduce the additional expense This is what we were talking about doing for the next 50 years in the sandhills Even if we could get this large and ongoing volunteer commitment and the expensive take permits for impacting the dune beetle larvae There are also cryptobiotic soils in the sandhills, which are hugely susceptible to disturbance A single footprint can destroy them and they can take more than 20 years to recover Can I finish? Yes Development and quarrying has already taken a severe toll on sandhills and parkland sandhills and out of what little is left There are many threats I am opposed to this ban because it is not being presented with a feasible Science-based alternative for ensuring the protection of the sandhills against invasive species The few alternatives that I've heard about aren't even based in reality I have my own selfish personal reasons for wanting to preserve biodiversity Experiencing and learning about the earth's organisms and ecosystem fills me with wonder. I love it and it brings me so much joy I also mourn all of it's been lost already and with each passing day And I resent generations who came before me And didn't have the good sense or the character to intervene when they had the chance Thank you You want to speak? What's your name? My name is Lee Summers from Bulba Creek And I have been pulling broom for 15, 20 years out of Quail Hollow Ranch And there's been a number of different strategies used mostly is to have been physically pulling It's not in sandhills, habitats, and variety of other habitats But there's been, we've been pulling using I think I want to say somewhere around 6,000 hours of volunteer Over time, over that period of time, over the past 18 years, for 17 years And there was, you know, there's been some other strategies We've used some flaning strategies There's been with other species besides the broom, there's been tarping But for a handful of times, when we had a big giant plant, there's nothing that can wrap it You know, you don't have any tools that can pull it out of the ground We cut it and use it a little time, a little needle nose application to get that one plant So sometimes you just got, I don't like using it, I don't use any kind of chemicals on my own property But sometimes there's one little isolated place where you got it Pull out that one little tool and to be able to look very carefully And, you know, and not just throw out one tool because you don't like it right now To be able to have all those options available It's, the sandhills are worth it You know, I applaud the last, you know, I love your description It's something that you really need to take a look at What's happening to this really unique habitat And I feel these, all the tools in our toolbox is something that I, you know I look forward to seeing what the plant comes out And I look to see all the tools available Thank you Anybody else? Yes My name is Suzanne Shetler, I live in Van Lundman And the outstanding example of a form of cancer developing that appeared to be directly related to life estate Was in the instance of a person who was being terribly careless about how he used it I don't know whether he had any supervision or not But it was total carelessness Repeated application, repeated applications and not wearing the personal protective equipment But let's talk about the effect in the water Since this is a well field that we're talking about Has anybody tested the water from the well field and found life estate in it? And the soil? It breaks down over time The soil rather than, it varies with the soil type There has been testing of the water, you said Can you direct your question to the chair on the bill from there? Has been tested We tested the water, not the soils to my knowledge, not because Jim, you don't Yeah, the water has been tested for change Yeah And it shows nature Yeah, well water always is tested It will be specifically with the west Yeah, but you're specifically looking for the west Okay Okay Are you done with your comment? That's all I just wanted to ask the question Okay, thank you Okay, all right, Debbie Yeah, I'm going to thank Rick Moran for bringing this to our attention As part of the platform on the election, I think I think it's not a good idea to underestimate How much people have really looked at this And to say that our feelings are not science-based Is to reject the idea that there are plenty of studies that show this is harmful And I agree with Rick, the tide has turned Many of these studies are older And the new studies are reversing those finds Significantly, the Sierra Club has done a good study on it Which I believe has been rejected by this district That says, dogging it on is actually much worse than spraying It concentrates more into the soil And it's going to create more harm The district has about 8,000 book-ups, I believe I don't know what the population is I think there's about 19,000 voters So let's say 25,000-26,000 people served by SOE What is the value of the help to develop your customers? The district's primary purpose is to supply us with clean water If we're applying something that is already controversial And as time goes by, finding more and more problems with it Where it's possibly going to be seeping into our water It might take a few years for it to go down into the aquifer I heard Rick Roger say tonight We extract a lot of water off this property It is near our main wells We are affecting everyone in the district When we apply these herbicides I'm for a total ban tonight I'd be happy to have a total ban in a month When we do an integrated pest management I'd be happy to ban this every year We need to send a very clear message A lot of jurisdictions, as Rick has pointed out Jurisdictions all over the place are banning this now We are usually on the cusp of the curve For knowing, for moving forward and being progressive And we've really lost on this one We're behind it now We need to catch up and we need to ban it And I encourage the board to tonight Please ban it completely Thank you Virgil Thank you Virgil A lot of jamblin from Bookdale I'm really confused about characterizing this discussion As being against saving the sandhills Because that's exactly what this discussion is about Saving the sandhills We're disagreeing a bit here with the technique for saving it Now, my personal observation is That glyphosate is evolutionary a dead end It's not a solution There are already glyphosate resistant soybeans and corn Now what are you going to do when you grow Glyphosate resistant broom? I have never seen pull a resistant broom So you've got to make a choice here based on science I'm agreeing with that But it's just glyphosate Just, you know, all of the other arguments might or might not be right It's just It's a stopgap method It's always been a stopgap method Everything that the fertilizer industry has given us Has been a stopgap method So, you know It's evolutionary a dead end Sorry Thank you Tony And I would like to echo what you said Just because where someone is opposed to glyphosate Doesn't mean that we don't want to protect the sandhills But, you know, Santa Cruz County were known For really caring about the environment And I One article that I read and said that the World Health Organization That what is it? IARC The one department and organization within World Health That is, that deals with cancer They said that they did find that it is cancer causing And for all of those organizations across the country That are responsible for keeping their waters safe That they, that this they don't have proof That this is going to impact the waters But their information and their recommendations Are that you should halt what you're doing And wait and see You have to keep safe the people that are drinking that water So that is their recommendation And you stop using it until all of the tests have been completed About how dangerous it is And I agree that we there must be There must be some other means If yanking it Maybe there's something else that we can do We need to look into that But we shouldn't be using practicing Chuck Yes, I can't speak nearly passionately to this issue That as Lee and Jenny did But I really don't want to address the use of life as safe And what I say tonight What I want to address is What are you going to do instead of this And there's been significant talk that That money should not be invested in this sort of activity In protecting these very precious ecosystems And that's what I'm concerned about That you're not coming back and saying what you will be willing to do And I mean I think both Jen and Jenny have talked about the fact That we have 25% of the remaining high-quality habitat On this one property This is almost world-class protected Special ecosystem And yes One of the You know I have a copy of the mission statement here And one of the things in that says that We have an obligation to provide our customers And all future generations with safe and high-quality water But another part of that mission statement Is to say that we have an obligation To protect the environmental health of the watersheds So we need to take on both of those imperatives From that mission statement And figure out a way to do both of those things And I'm concerned that That the You know the passionate interest in the environment Is not going That the new directors have stated In some of their material during the election Will not translate into taking any action Beyond the absolute minimum regulatory requirements And that's what bothers me And some of that's going to be expensive Because of the change in this And if that's acceptable to the board That's fine But you need to take that on You need to You need to do what the Groundwater Sustainability Agency is doing One of the things that Dave Seppo has talked about tonight Is that agencies can do more than the bare minimum Again, there's a certain level of January 2015 That you need to address You can choose to do more than that I think this board should Should respect the desires of a significant part Of our community And say that we're going to do more than the bare minimum So I'm asking you to come back sometime in the near future Maybe you mentioned something about it tonight About how are you going to develop a good plan To proceed with this without this tool If you're going to not have this tool in place And you gave a try at a workshop meeting You've got lots of those lined up for a possibility Bring this for discussion of what to do to a workshop The environmental committee is a good place to discuss this also You don't have to take recommendations from the committee You can have that as a venue that the public can come to and talk about it You can talk endless ask staff to develop alternatives But don't assume that people want you to do nothing on this I believe most of the people here Want you to take up your responsibilities The stewards of one of the most precious pieces of property in our Valley Thank you Anybody else Lou? I would like to request for the sake of transparency That the district posts all the information as on the testing Of glyphosate in those 14 acres Including the test methods, the detection limits, and the MSDS For what you used Because then we can look at the information, the real facts Ourself and do a scientific based decision Without using opinions Because I don't know, I tried the research I could not find the half-life for glyphosate I could not find the LD50 for glyphosate Well, you can't tell how dangerous it is without those numbers And in particular, I would like to know what the actual results were And where the testing was done And how it was done What was the N? What was the analysis done afterwards? All that posted so we can take a look at it in the growing decision Could you tell me what those acronyms stand for? LD50 is a lethal dose for 50% of the organism that you're attacking that with Thank you Greater than 50% is Technically, any organism exposed to it And they often use minnows as the test basis Well, in MSDS it defines what that organism is that you're using LD50 Typically, it's mites MSDS for the sentencing Material safety data sheet Thank you, I appreciate that All that information has to be in there by law Those are available online I couldn't find it I mean, if you buy it, you get it If you don't buy it, you don't get it It's life But okay Anyway, I don't see why we couldn't have that posted on the website So we can all take a look at the data for ourselves And make our own decisions Okay, back Chris White, Ben Lohman I would just, I'm just asking for cost Long-term cost You already don't have money Sorry, you don't Right So in part of this process, how are you gonna fund Taking care of this In a long-term solution Not one year, not one They used Roundup A lot on their property and had that very cancer And I certainly wouldn't have called them foolish Or uninformed or sloppy People just don't know what this stuff can do And it'd be nice if If people could be taught And I think I mean, lately I've been seeing a lot of ads Have, do you have cancer? Have you used And they're saying Roundup They're not saying glyphosate I've seen that So I don't see anything I We need to have budgets And we need to decide how we're going to take care of the broom It needs to be taken care of And no argument for me But I frankly would like to see a BAM tonight And it, we will have to do an integrated pest management study But I'd probably go for Same, you know, there's different areas in that And Probably we would Even if we don't ban it tonight We'll ban it again I'd just as soon not necessarily have to have this conversation again But we probably will But I would like to see a BAM tonight I'm probably one of the only people in this room That's actually bid on properties And bid over to makers of property And cleared a lot And I can bid, it's a testament to the cost of removal It's a negligible difference Between pulling this broom And as far as large broom I've pulled very large broom In my neighborhood Like sparks, like that And you should have called me And I would have came over and pulled out But anyway I was, you know, if anyway But it was really concerned Is that it's probably over a year ago That I, I know for a fact There's an alternative method To doing that without damaging And my plan was to do only small areas Of manual pulling with the pull permit With the careful biological monitor You know, watching the progress And in studying and how they affect Of all the species And they're also maybe something else But the voters really have spoken So, you know, I really think that we should Director Swan made a motion To ban it entirely And I second it I believe it I'm sorry, I didn't hear that Yeah, he did He just kind of mumbled Yeah Oh, did not Okay But we, we, yeah, Bob Yeah, I think, um I think what everybody's talking about In terms of the fiscal impacts Of what our plan is going to be Absolutely why not And that is something that Between staff and ourselves And hopefully people in the audience Will be able to develop And I think Bill's made some good points over the year I, I heard two Points that I think I wanted to Respond to that, that Margaret talked about And one is Are we going to take on the world on this? Or that we should be prepared to do that As part of this ban? I, I will respectfully disagree I liken this to Something very similar to What California is doing And the area of Becoming carbon neutral Or perhaps, you know, lower carbon Folks, India and China Are pumping more carbon into the atmosphere By building the amount of power plants That they're building and they're coal-fired Then we're possibly going to offset Through anything California itself is going to do But that doesn't make the effort any less Valuable or any less noble Or any less important And so, no, I, I, I'm not out there Basically saying We're going to go fight everybody But what I am saying is that The example the district sets by doing this Is going to be another brick In the wall that's being built on this And I'm happy and proud Hopefully it will be a positive vote I'd be happy and proud to be part of that I don't think it is necessarily Something that we should not do Just because no one else is doing it On the second point about funding I, I do hear that this is a valuable piece of property How long have we, how long has this been under Protection Of the June, when did, what year did that sort of happen? As soon as I'm reminded Yeah And so one of the things that One of the things that I Talk about or I will be talking about a lot in environmental Is sort of the reverse of the externality costs That are done for pollution And that is the internal costs that are associated with An organization Agents, regulatory agency coming in and saying Okay your property now needs to do this And by the way we're not going to fund it If this is such critical property And such valuable property Which I believe that it is The question is why should 8,000 subscribers Be the sole financial supporters Of the rehabilitation of and maintenance of this property It seems to me that the state of California The county of Santa Cruz Other funding agencies Should be encouraged to preserve something That is so valuable to the world Because there's only 57 acres left And by the way this just isn't our 14 acres I think we ought to be looking at the entire 57 acres For that kind of thing Whether that happens immediately or not Is beside the point The case needs to be made That these kinds of externalities Need to somehow be funded by the organizations That are forcing this externality to happen Because otherwise 8,000 people here Are going to be solely financially responsible For dealing with this And so that's something that I'll Whether or not it happens I don't know But that's something that I would definitely encourage Our supervisor, our assembly member Our congressperson, senators What have you to The ones that were congratulating me For winning Anna Eshoo To basically say This is so important That we're going to find funding for To basically preserve it for eternity Through the use of more than just 8,000 Subscribers in their mind So I I would like to offer an addition Or an amendment to the motion For the ban If my boy colleagues would consider Adding the words or something like this To not only ban but simultaneously then Commit to Appropriately funding and Implementing a long-term Plan for complete eradication Of the invasive species On the watershed properties You know I think that that is a Very good thing to talk about But not as part of this motion But I would agree And the gene are we precluded from adding that But it isn't part of the agenda item It could be added Or just a question That could be added It's within the scope of the agenda item description But I do think that this is a topic Look This district had almost two years To develop the alternatives Through the Blue Ribbon Commission That was supposed to have delivered its report And I would hope that time and fashion Failed to do so This board is not going to Shirk its duties on coming up with What that alternative is I believe from what I've heard tonight But this motion is in my opinion About the ban and the ban And that's what I think we need to focus on Do you want your Well is there any second to add Her Well I think with Bob said I mean that sounds great And I think we are going to be committed That I would I think with Bob made sense I think Let's just We just We're just talking about Glyphus in here And we will come I mean I think we're definitely Committed to that But I you know I think that's Come back to it I totally agree with what he said But I just think Why don't we just Go with Director Swan's motion As it stands And vote on it Do you want to repeat your motion So if If Holly didn't It's recorded Oh it's recorded I hope I'll be able to hear it Well maybe it ought to be repeated Because maybe other people didn't hear it Then we move forward with the ban on Glyphus And strike the language that refers to Having to complete the test management plan I'll second it Second All right Could you call the question Holly? I beg your pardon Ask for the vote Oh okay I just tend to say Call the question That's a Okay Director Falls Yes Director Smallman I like saying I So I say I Director Swan Yes President Henry Yes Director Bruce Because I would be in favor of a Longer and more transparent process Because I'm in favor of the use of Glyphus State I would like this to be considered as part of the Integrated Pest Management Plan So I am voting no Okay All right We've been at this for a while So I'm not sure if that's a good question Hmm? It's a good question I think it's a good question I think it's a good question I think it's a good question I'm not sure what I'm having I mean, I had some ice cream I think it's a good question It was easy Okay So consent agenda Next items I would move approval of the consent agenda Any questions on the minutes? Any questions on the minutes No? Okay Hmm? It's consent agenda Everybody's in favor Okay We don't have to vote on the consent Right Okay District reports How fast can That be done Done Well, you know The Administration Finance Environmental Operations And legal reports in front of you Management staff is here to answer any questions You may have Or many of the management team would like To point out any highlights to the board Have you got a question? I do, I do. I have a burning question about Lafko And the Bear Creek wastewater And what was their Interest and all of a sudden They keep Lafko's interests It's a good question I got a A notice from The Executive Director of Lafko At the Cormac that They were going to commission a study For the Bear Creek Estates Wastewater And some other Facilities throughout the county To see the best fit For operation maintenance Whether it's the water district or the county Or the ownership I went to their meeting That they held And they're in the Selection of their consultants To do such They're supposed to interview the different agencies What does that mean? They will Lafko commission a report And like when I asked them What does that exactly mean If they came back and said Maybe the county is the best place For can operate it most efficiently Not much Because there's other fire districts That they've recommended in solidation 15, 18 years ago But it would be another step In the process And it's another question that's answered By the Bear Creek Folks to Where is it best fit? And the county The Governor of the county Believes it should be under the county Public works who would do the operations Of it Really don't want to take the responsibility Over But it would be another step In the process To work with those people out there And if it came back And says SLB staff Are doing a good job In operating the system most economically In some ways it would be a feather In our cap to show the people That an independent agency Looked at it and looked at our operations Which I don't believe they're going to find Anything that says That they're not operating it properly But I also think that maybe the county Is whether they're going to find it more fit Because they operate other small districts Up in this area They have equipment that they have More expertise than the district does So it should be, the study should be Be out I think around june Somewhere around there After patent employment retires So more follow This has come up before And maybe things have changed But the county's always said No way No way We don't want anything So I'll be surprised if they Do anything other than saying Yes SLB is doing a good job Let them do it Because an independent agency Is an independent consultant And we have a new public works director Who was always against it before And he has supported it In the past Possibly the county to take it over But it's kind of too early to tell Yeah I know But I just know what the history is Yeah I haven't heard this one of my Favorite people down at the county For a long time I'm really sorry to see I'm retired But well deserved But that does bring up At some point I'd like to hear The engineering study done For barricade estates In an expedited fashion So I'm hopeful that'll come up On the agenda this time The other question I had And I think this is more perhaps Of getting ready for the next workshop And this is for Jen I'm still I think a little fuzzy About trying to get my hands on Precisely where we are And certain things that we're going to report So I'm hopeful that when we get to The workshop that's coming up We'll really be able to date into these And understand which of these Are sort of work in progress Long term, work in progress Short term, accomplishments, actions What I'm going to do next month Next quarter, etcetera Because right now I'm having a hard time Getting my hands around where that's coming So I believe that workshop's coming up Soon February 7 Could you give me a call so we could Just so I can make sure that I'm addressing All of your concerns? Could you give me a call at the office? Just so I can Make sure I I want to make sure I answer all your questions Just a couple of things About barricade estates During the time I did speak to the New Public Works director Matt Machado He didn't like my plan He didn't think we could build it But I disagreed With him But the environmental health Two different departments The environmental health department Were interested They were interested in helping But they're also talking About Downtown Boulder Creek So Eventually maybe If there's both Boulder Creek and the Barricades It might make it more attractive And make it more sense That you would take it over Just take it over But you're right No way that they didn't want to take over Barricade estates at all Because it was just about 56 houses Well, you know Not to get too deep into this But maybe once we get The RFP response back And get some costs And we do some work out there And not such a substandard system That may be more palatable To the county and look at it Yeah, that was That was part of our discussion Hey, you know, if we get this thing All fixed up nice, up to date Stuff like that Then we'll take it It's open to discussion So has James Got something to say? Are you going to sleep? I don't blame you How about Stephanie? My main news was On the draft approval Of the letter of conditions From FEMA, or from USDA For us getting locked in at the 4% rate So that was definitely good Because if it hadn't before this government shutdown We would have already been at a 4.25 And that was You say on the day of the shutdown? It was like the day of the day before It was the day before I got a story about it It's just as good All right I had a couple of questions About the county Is that appropriate? Yes, you can ask questions About the bills I was just curious On this One of the payments to Don Alley, Extreme Monitoring Program Is this a monthly bill that we paid In $1400? In our It's project specific So it's not monthly So at one time He does the temperature monitoring And he was pulling temperature gauges Or something like that For our stream I'll be talking about it as a workshop Is that for a quarter's worth of monitoring Or a year's worth of monitoring? It was a recent activity that he did Individual monitoring effort It was a monitoring Defined for the labor bill Okay And then he's also shown His Completed Final Fall Creek Fish Pass The last word didn't Imagine there was $858 Don Alley again Fall Creek Fish Passage Oh, yeah He completed A chapter with him a while ago To complete a Fish Passage Study It had been in draft form For a while And he finally completed it So he billed us for the Final And are we the sole Provider of funds for him? Or is he cross-charge? Or do we cross-charge other agencies For his efforts and services? Just for us For the projects that we are collaborative For Don Alley And we cross-charge other agencies then? Or do they get billed? Other agencies actually cross-charge us So we are collaborative on the Fish Monitoring Project With Don Alley And we get billed from the city Because the city manages that contract I see Okay And what is $3,000 That's a $3,000 It's chlorine It's chlorine for water Did you say Did you say Did you say Did you say Did you say Did you say Did you say And there's a utility services Associates for leak detection services Is that a one-time, monthly It's a contract that we do Roughly every three to five years For system-wide leak detection And how much was it for? $12,000 No, that was a full price You need to pay somebody to tell us we have leaks? These are surface leaks that we can't find I thought I saw a giant list that you had Of leaks that went on forever I thought We knew every leak there was Including the list that we do not see underground That they do find Some leaks Yeah, some leaks you don't know about Some leaks You just know the water is disappearing You'll have a full report On that whole project How many leaks we found How much water we saved By recurring those leaks And where they are One of those One of those leaks was The 6 million gallon leak in Zion That was found by them as well Those leaks can turn into blowouts This was the last time That we did leak detection Those were the leaks we found in our system So we will be doing that again With the new leaks that they found In this last round That was three years ago It's a great program Did new leaks get a different color pen? Might be interesting to Once we get our new Engineering department up and running Okay, one last Just one last question This is It's called balance hydrologists Stream monitoring program And that's a total of $18,000 Let's scoop on that We have the logic to do stream flow monitoring Throughout the San Lorenzo river And our tributaries And diversions Recurring at what frequency? We renew the contract Annually And we'll be bringing that to you For a new contract renewal And does somebody else share the cost with us? Scotts Valley, Santa Cruz, Soquel Anybody? Fishing game? Nobody shares the cost with us But we do get credit For the amount that we pay We're using it as Matching funds for The $300,000 grant that we got For conjunctive use So we do get That's showing that we're paying half Of our water supply Sustainable water supply Strategy And I'll talk a lot about that At the workshop And the balance contract Will come to the board For review Or an approval And maybe a point that could be made Is that doing that work is not Exactly discretionary Right That was it for me. Thanks, Stephanie Oh You talk way too much, Stephanie Yeah So about that shutdown It's time to stop Very quick On the written communications From Sharon Tapper Do we have She wrote something in Have we responded And what have we said And then in time with the states The water quality She spent thousands Of dollars a year with us She's telling me my water is safe We did Respond to her And talk with our Duke of Lila Before I tell you On these kinds of things I personally am being To make sure we're closing The information we get is closing the loop On those in the future Because when I see things like this I kind of go Clench a little bit In the past whenever there was a written communication There was address to the board It was put into the If you don't want to do that I'm saying put it in here Just close the loop What was the action taken as a consequence I don't handle that All water quality complaints Are responded to Except every year that goes out Makes phone contact I believe this one here is We had our password 5a well We had damage To the pumps that did the jetting Into the well screen Which created discolored water Some gravel We had about 15 Or so The responses in my report are Complaints All in the same general area From this and staff responded immediately It took that well off line I do read that is one of them Right here Water treatment As of right now it's kind of hard for me to match Sure, no I agree But seeing as this one was Adjust to board members This one's straight at the correspondence Front office staff Want a water treatment They don't stop contacting Down the food chain of water treatment Until they physically Yeah I did see that in your report Didn't I Where you talked about how the Sand was getting through the screen And water quality complaints And use one of those water quality complaints As reported in the state health Report Monthly to the state Sorry I just I didn't see the name I didn't match up the address Thank you Okay Question Quick update if I may Direct the question to Margaret Because I think you spoke to it in the December Board meeting Any further news on the symposium At UCSC on climate change In terms of what we're going to do With that information Either in the SLBWD I don't have an update on that But I know that Based on this morning's Environmental committee meeting That climate change adaptation Issues including Fire hazards And other watershed Potential watershed impact Are going to be part of Jen's workshop on the 7th So that information is Going to is There's a long list Of plans, projects Strategic documents And activities that Jen's responsible for And that information Is going to be woven into them And does that At least three of those Plans Is that migrate to SMIGWA Because it seems like they could benefit from All that information just as much as we You know what I don't know I would hope so But as an alternate I have little So far little influence there I don't know if anyone From Scotts Valley was In attendance I didn't see anybody from Scotts Valley Or from the other agencies in attendance At that workshop So all we can do Is continue to Point in that direction Next week is The Santa Clara County Commission On the environment meeting Climate change adaptation is on the agenda For that meeting I have the privilege of serving on that commission And I pound the drum On adaptation issues When I have the opportunity when I'm there So I can continue to push Those concepts And the priority Of those issues Where I have influence Please Climate change adaptation Does show up in the guiding principles For the Santa Margarita groundwater We didn't cover that as one Of the ones we brought up But if I recall That is on there I believe climate change adaptation And adaptation will be A section in the Groundwater sustainability plan as well So Really that is Both going to be addressed And I know we talk about climate changes About how we're going to Climate change into The workshops that we're doing too Just to address that Thank you for keeping that Applying Alright, I believe it is Time to adjourn this Meeting Do you have any Answers here on the meeting Or anything For upcoming meetings What are we going to We'll be having a Meeting With a presentation By Dennis Timney from SDRMA Regarding Brown Act and ethics It's not going to be an ethics training It's simply going to be Training Mostly it's going to At the request of the president We are focusing on the Brown Act And that's what that's going to be That's going to start at 530 Highlands Park 23rd and then On the 28th Is the Laddock Writing Charter writing And everyone's invited to that It's going to be a workshop And that will be hopefully a Zyanic fire We're not going to get on Zyanic fire until their board meets On the 22nd You couldn't email us I have flyers already to go I'm just waiting for So you're going to Send to all the Committee members And you're going to put it on the website Because people in the Community can come as well So Are we done now? Get your hammer I try not to use the hammer Okay Alright We're going to adjourn this meeting It's a quarter to ten Take your list


All right, time to hear from head coach Steve Nash. Let's listen to him post game. Hey, coach, what's the feeling just being able to watch your team grid out a win?  Just what's the feeling as is it a mixed feeling because you guys had an 18 point lead and then surrendered it? Or is it more so a OK, at least we were able to stick it out and get the one? I'd say mixed is appropriate. A win is a win. You found a way to win the game, did enough to win the game. You know, I told the guys my only gripe is we had a chance to be up 20-25 in the first half. We let them get back to, I think it was, I can't remember, but they cut the deficit at halftime. You know, that can come back to bite you, but it didn't. So we got it done in the end. And we'll have to just learn from it, take a look at a few of the scenarios, and get better. Alex Shiffer with the athletic. Steve, kind of touching on that end-of-game sequence. Just what would you have liked to have seen come out better from that? And you've talked before about sometimes taking your foot off the gas a little bit. Did you see that at all in the fourth quarter when the Knicks were coming back? Or was that more of them than you guys there? Yeah, I don't think we were that sharp, you know, defensively, a few too many mistakes.  But, you know, I thought there was a little stretch of lax defense in the first half, and a stretch down the fourth quarter where we could have done a little better. But, you know, it is in this league. You're playing NBA players. They have nothing to lose when they're down 12, 18 points. And you have everything to lose. So that's how this goes sometimes. And we got the win, which is the most important thing. When you tip your hat to the Knicks, they played hard and made it difficult for us. And in the end, we got the win. And you're back to Christian Winfield. Hey, coach, it's probably gonna be a story, but did you see what happened at the end of the game there when Julius approaches the refs and has to be restrained? Did you see all that happen and just what would you make of that? I didn't see it. Sorry, I missed all that. Brian Lewis with the New York Post. Brian, you're muted. My apologies, Steve. That is what I wanted to ask you. But could you just comment on what you've seen from Julius and his development that's not withstanding at the end? You know, he's turned into an all-star player. You know, he's become more accurate and efficient shooting the ball. He's making plays for his teammates.  He's a tough matchup.  He's strong enough to overpower people. And now he can shoot from all three levels. So he's definitely developed into an all-star player. Back to Alex Shiver. Hey, so if I got a two-porter on Jip, just to start off, I mean, he got that really hot store for you guys in the first quarter. What did you think was working for him early? Sorry, who was that? Jeff. Jeff. Well, he was getting on the short roll. He made a couple nice floaters. Made some threes tonight, I think. Two threes. You know, I think that he was just smart in his roles. James found him. James, I mean, made some beautiful passes to him for layups, dunks. And then the short roll, he had a couple floaters. A few threes.  He had a really efficient shooting night. And, you know, and also was our primary defender on Randall. And he was out for a little bit. Was that just the rotations or he'd taken a shot of some sort? Yeah, he took a shot, but he recovered and was able to finish the game. Thank you. Welcome. Back to Brian Lewis. What was your vantage point on that last play? Probably the defense on there? Yeah, I mean, he reached in and got a piece of the ball.  Just took Randall out of his rhythm with the slap on the ball.  He got a piece of it on the way up and threw him off his rhythm and came down with it. I guess called travel and we move on. Thanks so much, Coach. We appreciate it. Thanks, everybody. Have a good night.


Hey y'all welcome to what Chelsea eats. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am going to show you how to make this blueberry salsa. Now I know blueberry salsa sounds really crazy but let me just tell you I think this is the best salsa that I have ever made in my entire life. It is so good. The flavors are just busting out of this dish. It's so good I impressed myself. All right y'all if you want to see how I make it stay tuned. So we're going to start with something a little different. I have yellow and red heirloom tomatoes and they're just two small ones cut up. I'm going to add those first to the bowl. They're so juicy. I love heirloom tomatoes, heirloom tomatoes. I'm sorry not heirloom. And next we are going to add two cups of blueberries and I just wasn't sure if blueberries was going to be a hit for this but let me just tell y'all don't be afraid to put blueberries in salsa. Also you can use strawberries if you don't like blueberries. But next we're going to add ripe avocado. That's just one avocado chopped. You can chop the pieces smaller if you would like. And then next we're going to add some fresh cilantro and I think this probably made the dish come together. The cilantro was just so fresh. I think that made a big difference. I added about a half a cup chopped. Also as usual I will put a link below in the description box with the ingredients for this recipe. Next is a juice of one lime. I guess you can use lemon but I think lime works best in this recipe. Then we have about a half a teaspoon of cumin. You can either use cumin or coriander. I happen to like cumin better because it has a more of a smoky taste and then this is just a dash of black ground pepper. You can put it in or leave it out if you would like to but I think it adds a little bit of a depth of flavor. Next is some pink Himalayan salt. Honestly I don't know if this dish needed salt. I just added it before I tasted it so it wasn't too salty. But last but not least of the spices is a little bit of chipotle seasoning. You can use any type of pepper seasoning you would like or you can leave it out if you don't like spicy although that little bit of chipotle did not make this dish spicy at all. And the only thing I did after that is stir everything together so that all the flavors could mel together and let me tell you the flavors married well. And that was even before it sat. Sometimes when you make salsa it tastes better the longer you let it sit but this didn't even have to sit to taste good.  There you have it. Blueberry salsa. Who knew? This video please give it a thumbs up share it with a friend and please don't forget to subscribe. Until next time y'all take care.


A couple of times a year people will ask me, Jared, what should I do to go see a meteor shower? Well, I finally decided why I tell people what to do when I can make a space pod about what they should do. And this is your space pod for December 18, 2015. If you're planning a trip to go see a meteor shower, you're going to have to do a lot. Because one of the main things you need to do is find extremely dark skies. And here in Southern California, we're very, very lucky. I've thought of a place that I would like to go to. That would be Joshua Tree National Park. It's out in the middle of the Mojave Desert, and it is quite big. And there's also very little around it. It's extremely isolated, both from people and being isolated from people. That means it's also isolated from light. We'll go to Cottonwood Springs. That's a place I've gone to before. And it's got dark skies where I can actually see the Milky Way without the need for that. So let's put this away, somehow, start up the car, and now we're going to get the heck out of here. So we're on our way out to Joshua Tree National Park, which is about three hours east of Los Angeles. And it is a bit of a drive, but for a meteor shower, you want to go to the darkest skies possible. So in order to do that, you have to get out of town. And here in Southern California, when you want to get out of town, you go to Joshua Tree National Park. The magic of video editing will show you a little bit of the drive out there, but then we'll also get straight to the campsite that we'll be at. So see you in like 30 seconds. One of the things you need to take into consideration when going to view a meteor shower is that you might be heading out to an isolated place. In the case of Joshua Tree, it's, as I said before, extreme isolation. You literally have to bring everything with you, and in addition to that, it may not actually be easy to get where you need to go. And this is a photo I took during the peak of the meteor shower, which shows the perfect technique by which you should actually view the meteor shower. You don't need a telescope or binoculars or any type of fancy equipment. All you really need is a chair and maybe some warm clothes or a warm drink or whatever you may like, and the ability to look up to the sky. And that's what we did. And we were able to see about 200 to 300 geminid meteors during the geminid meteor shower. Really the most difficult part of seeing a meteor shower is actually getting to where you want to go to see the shower. But if you have the place, especially an extremely dark sky, it's highly worth it. And take a look at the multiple meteor showers that happen throughout the year. There's not just one that happens at a specific time. There's many that happen at a specific time. Although the noted ones, like the Percyids in the middle of August, the Leonids in the middle of November, and the Geminids in the middle of December, usually put on the most spectacular shows. Thanks for watching The Space Pod. I'm Jared Head. Don't forget to like and subscribe to us. And of course, we are continuing our Patreon campaign, now doing so monthly. So make sure to take a look at that, see our milestone goals, and help us reach some of the new heights that we'd like to with our Space Pods. So, until the next Space Pod, keep exploring.