We're debating whether or not the arc has been found and we are starting right now With the yes sides opening. Thanks so much for being with us. Oh, tangelo the floor is all yours You can screen share when you're ready. Oh tangelo. Yeah Ready to go Okay, it was not flood a real event or just an ancient myth Today, we know of hundreds of flood stories from every culture in every corner of the globe One of the most stunning evidences that Noah's Ark is real history is coded into the Chinese language The Chinese word for large ship is composed of three other words eight persons both What we know about mitochondrial DNA of humans fits the seven thousand year time scale and explains the three Halop groups genetic studies have confirmed the recent Ancestry of humans, which is evidence that we all descend from Adam Eve and Noah's family All humans are 99% identical in their genetic makeup by comparing the mitochondrial DNA of 147 people from five different ethnic groups Researchers have found that all the individuals analyzed were descendants of the same female lineage That is they all had the same original mother Thus they confirmed that all humanity descends from the same woman Who was the first homo sapiens and they called her mitochondrial Eve? We also have geological evidence of Noah's flood the pre flood geographical environment was drastically different than after the flood Axel Highberg Island and Elsemore Island in the Canadian Arctic Have been discovered to harbor the remains of a vast array of prehistoric animals and vegetation Recently giant camels have been found up in the north There is evidence that there was a vast forest in 2017 news reported The secular science community has no viable answers to explain remarkable finds like these Yeah, I oh tango I hate to interrupt but just to be sure we're on the same page That like tonight's debate was for whether or not the art Was found this seems more like a case for the flood having happened just to be sure we're on the same page Are you? Given you only have six minutes per person This might be a good time to quickly launch in with the last couple of minutes You have into the evidence for the the art per se having been found Well, I can just put the last few Slides and then give the words to Philip, okay So they did find chickpeas on the floor of the wooden structure on Mount Ararat Which I think are the remains of Noah's Ark In 2008 parachute the Kurdish mountaineering expert did find on Mount Ararat a wooden structure That became aware that I became aware of in 2010 In 2009 mainly a Chinese Turkish team made a movie of the large wood structure on their eyes That parachute discovered on the elevation of a four thousand two hundred meters above sea level It became a major controversy with arch-searchers claiming that the finding was a fraud Then in April last year, I met Philip Williams on Facebook And he is the first American that did visit the structure in 2014 after a long investigation and conversation with Philip I came to the conclusion that this finding is most likely Noah's Ark And noteworthy is what rendered Randall Junker a PhD professor of archaeology and history in antiquity said About the finding. I think this discovery could be very important I had not paid much attention to it before Indeed was skeptical But since I have been looking into it more studying the images and talking to a number of people involved Including two people. I know and trust who have actually been on the site I am convinced it is not the recent fraud or fake It has been up there for some time. So it is a legitimate archaeological site as such It deserves careful study if possible We'll kick it over to Philip for his six minutes as well. Thanks for very much Philip. The floor is all yours Okay, very well. Let me switch this to my Yeah And then I need there we go. Oh, first of all, I need to tell everybody that this is not this this is the durum per site that was on the On the the picture of which you saw coming This was created in a 1948 earthquake. If you drive up a road a little way, you'll see similar geological formation Um, yeah This is not Noah's Ark. Now the good thing about this is got the attention of the The culture of the government of Turkey that there's a lot of interest in Noah's Ark in the site. So Um One thing just to be sure that Like some of the audience won't be able to like I mentioned if uh, if we use the Screen option that you chose it's so pixelated that the audience can't read or at least I can't read Any of the text so you'd have to read any of the text that is on screen out loud for the audience Just to be sure, you know, okay, let me try a share screen then let's see what's what where we go and Uh All right Uh, I think it's okay if we go with that. It's just that You know, you definitely Oh, all right. Well, well, that would be better. Great. Thank you. Uh, all right. Yeah, let me let me move back Uh Get rid of that now. Okay now. Yeah. Well, here here's some here's one reason why that site cannot be Noah's Ark Uh, we just to be sure you know that we can't see it. I don't think we can see a presentation anymore. It's just mountains Uh Just mountains, right? There's just mountains, right? And I was oh, you don't see uh You don't see some text on the mountain No Not on my side at least I just see like uh, I think it's like the background. Okay now we see some text Uh, well, I need to move this where you can Is that is that uh Let's get let's get this right here Uh, let's see. So you can't you can't see them Uh, let me see what we're oh, yeah. Yeah, we're seeing we're seeing everything. I think yeah um I'm seeing it on the I obviously you've switched into normal share screen. Okay. Let me adjust the screen for that because I have to I have to adjust it When you switch back and forth Okay All right Okay, we're ready for you now Okay Uh, it when you read the context of it, um, it says uh in genesis eight four and five On the 17th day the art of the month the art came to rest on the mountain of the verat The waters continue to recede until the 10th month and on the first days of 10 the tops of the mountains become visible So therefore the landing site of the ark if it's the same Uh, if it fits the biblical description it has to be towering above the surrounding mountains Uh, here's a picture that I actually uh taken here with an archaeological official Uh, as you can see we're looking over the mountains In fact, this is the one tiny place on the large earth's surface That would correspond to the resting place of Noah's ark that's in the bible And this is a picture that I I mean, I put took the picture of the mountain on the day very day that I visited in uh 2014 So it's up on the mountain just like you would depict from the biblical description And of course these photos was from my visit visit you see In the upper right hand visit this that actually picture I did not take that but it was at the same site You see the the the back wall has a black coating on it the inside Timbers of course were now exposed to the water. They did not need that black subsets are pitched You see my hand on one of these pegs There seem to be the boards seem to are put together with these square wooden pegs facing about 18 inches Now, uh, of course, this was in november 2014 when I visited it now. This of course was the same site That was announced in 2010 there you see professor belly All these people I know That's the head of nomi there Panda Lee who was the first one? A non-mountain person to actually visit it and there's another crew on the left of the young lady there in In the red jacket. She's the genius behind Behind this project or part of I know it's a she's actually a science reporter for public television in Hong Kong People a lot of people know about the controversy. It was claimed to be a fraud My involvement is because I had a reason to go to nomi's offense Because of the archaeological evidence that I was seeing From what they were presenting and Just to let you know The archaeologists even when from the initial announcement they were Stunned at the evidence that were being reported because they were used to these art All the arcs been found again and again and again, but here's one where they were actually seeing evidence But nomi was a media organization and they didn't understand the business of archaeologists I immediately saw an archaeological involvement with this With this discovery and people have got a fraud I'm all these arch-searchers. I know several of them. They don't want archaeological involvement But you need to know that this team from the very beginning wanted the archaeological involvement They didn't know how to do it. In fact, the asor is The name is actually the same name. This is one of the most prestigious archaeological In the world, especially regarding the ancient Near East where this site exists And so an official from asor actually went with me to the site and then I have actually met the people of the mountains who have been you know Protecting the site for for centuries And of course, we also I'm not we're not a bunch of Indiana Jones type of arch-searchers. We work with the authorities with the turkish ministry of culture We work with there's been several archaeological conferences associated with People want to know, well, what's the delay on this? Well, one thing is that archaeology everywhere in the world depends on private funding and and this needs to be needs to be Done privately just to maintain but and then the archaeologists you need to know they they publish before they announce now I'm not an archaeologist. I very much respect the archaeologists and we want them involved So I have a little bit more freedom to talk about this. Here's a few of the pictures that nomi published but You see they're very very interesting if you know, they actually look like what you might expect to art to look like So different from the other things that have been been trained The Now here here's something though if this is Noah's art and it's up here on this high mountain That means that the historical sciences have to be profoundly mistaken Now in my work Coming from a side time I expect I mean every every innovation I did, you know, the the current theory was wrong So that's the way science advances by testing falsifiability, you know, not by confirming What it already knows because that's what it knows is generally keeping it back from advancing now Here's a classic picture of the ark and I'm Won't you look at those picture people that are drowned now. This is something that's The creationists have neglected. You know, how about the people that that were drowned by the flood? You know and and of course you're talking about people you're not talking about geology like you mostly here to satiate with this With with the flood But you need archaeological context. So that's been my work for a long time My in fact when I was Retired back in 1990. I went to work Searching for I worked with comp. I was a system scientist I worked with complex system and I realized you can be looking at the evidence and and not And not recognize what you're actually looking at But I I thought well, there was a flood these these four things happened one People disappeared from the earth about Sometimes you're in the third millennium. It's the biblical date of the flood is correct Then we should see another secondary migration or worldwide migration Yeah, okay, then there's Well, four things I'll just just to let you know I determined that most of the prehistorical burials Are or actually here here's where you see something or actually evidence of flood and then I traced this back Of the book I published in 2010 and then if this is matching The arc what I traced and we've got a fine here and this is the recent book I did wrote to help the archaeologists understand the archaeology Of the site Just to let you know there's three narratives. This is the mainstream narrative that you will know how The man began as the hunter gather and then of course there's Our good culture began in the federal crescent after that stage And then there this is not what my narrative the flood narrative, which is you're more familiar with It's it's mostly a fish coming flood and I've got a just because we have that 12 minutes for the openings total I do have to kick us over just because okay I will stop right here We're able to uh Go ahead of the share screen and then I can switch it back over to the main screen I want to say folks First of just time here at modern day. I want to say And we hope you're welcome no matter what walk of life you were from whether you be christian atheist You name it. We are glad that you are here And remember to do a couple of housekeeping films as you can see me on the bottom right of your screen Plansion versus atheism We'll be debuting live and in person at debate con for this is our first Conference you don't want to miss it. Let me just adjust my audio. I know I'm just bouncing all over the place. Sorry guys Is you don't want to miss it. This is going to be a huge bait You can find the tickets for that event Saturday November 4th in Dallas, Texas in the description box So check out the description box right now For those tickets as well as we have crowdfund Which you can see on the right side of the screen in order to raise funds For this coming conference. You don't want to miss it Check out the links with the crowd fund in the description box as well. What's right right next over to Canberra. Thanks so much for being with us the floor is all yours What do you want in but you may first or you first? I can go first if you either or cool Yeah, all right all right okay, so To demonstrate that this is the real arc We first need to establish that there was a real arc if there was no biblical flood Then even if this turns out to be a 4 000 year old boat and that would be a remarkable find to be sure It couldn't be Noah's arc. We also need to consider whether Noah actually existed If no Noah once again, we just have a really old boat at best But in fairness if we can rule out this wreck of the ship on the basis of what's there Then we don't need to dive deep into the religious flotsam of floods and fictional figures So let's start there. What are we looking at? There are dozens of supposed real Noah's arcs in the world like religions They can't all be true, but they can all be false. So which one are we looking at today? For the purposes of my pre-written opening I'm assuming we're discussing the same arc as the last time Philip and Otangelo argued this case The Nami site that would be Noah's arc ministry international Or the movie sets built by Amit Artegral and associates for a Chinese film The sets were made from wood weren't connected to any structure or really anything more than facades And have since been swept away by the glacier they were built into We know all that because the people who built the sets were angry on that lied to them about the purpose of the construction So brought Dr. Don Patton a creationist geologist who had been working with Nami Until he discovered other fraud in the organization To the site where they themselves had carried the wood and built the sets and gave him samples of the wood They used which predictably is modern Of course Philip has stated he's visited the site himself in 2014 with an unnamed archaeological official Yet to date no peer reviewed papers from Philip nor this official nor any other archaeologist I can find have been published Philip promised Jordan and RJ two years ago on this very channel that papers would be published the next year What excuses will he have for us this time? He has published a slideshow of his visit though Where you can see the glacier in the process of reclaiming the sets as well as get a look at some of the lumber used in the construction Which as Philip himself points out and I quote it looks almost like modern timber and as Otangelo notes You can see the marks of the machining Given that the people who built these sets have admitted as much and the sets have since been destroyed by glacial action A very curious coincidence if this had been the real arc surviving all these years just to be swept away by a glacier Just after being discovered How can we possibly demonstrate that this is a real ancient boat? How can we demonstrate that this place has the actual arc and not the derupener site or some other location? What about mount judy the site early christian muslim and armenian tradition all say was the place the arc came to rest The nomi site is on agra doggy Which sail rites did not gain popularity until the late eighth century Which is about when people started assuming genesis eight saying the mountains Of ararat meant one big mountain and started calling the tallest peak in the area by that moniker Well, let's say our esteemed interlocutors do manage to demonstrate the veracity of this volatile vessel Most of their work is still ahead of them. The next hurdle they must clear is was this noah's ship Do the dimensions match the bible's description is there evidence of every kind of animal having been there Did the examination of the remains reveal how a crew of only eight managed to care for thousands of animals at minimum for nearly a year Not to put too fine a point on it. Where did they put the poop? And where are the bones of the kangaroos penguins and new world monkeys who perished on the long trek back to their native habitats From the arc's landing spot Maybe a 600 year old man with magic dna really did build a huge boat that was bigger on the inside to fit all of the animals And had indoor plumbing food replicators and divine ventilation to keep them all alive But then there's the flood that made building the boat in the first place necessary Perhaps lile was correct when he wrote it must have been so gentle a catastrophe that it left no trace But there's evidence against it the egyptians the chinese the native americans the sub-saharan empires and the pacific islanders Just to name a few kept on doing what they were doing right through the period the flood was said to have happened And not only did they fail to drown Nobody even saw fit to make a note of it And so we have no reason to accept this or any site as the legendary arc Because if the flood is a fish story and the man is an allegory Then it should be quite surprising to find the ship alone anchored in rock solid reality None of this is to diminish the fact the burden of proof rests with our opponents Only to establish that these are some of the barriers that need to be overcome On that note, I'd like to get a few questions for the discussion phase of this debate onto the table How do we demonstrate that this site is even a ship? How do we show that it was noa's instead of say gilgamesh's? How do we rule out other possibilities like the dirup in our site or mount judy? What are the falsification criteria that would convince you that this isn't noa's arc? That'll do for now. Thank you Thank you very much mark. The floor is all yours Thank you very much and I want to thank ember otangelo and philip for being here Thank you james for hosting the thanks to modern-day debate putting this on My presentation was really largely around the Drurimpa Drurimpa site so I'm kind of um, I thought my opening was irrelevant But you know, I will go into it because I did like look at nami I just didn't think that anybody would possibly believe that was the actual site of noa's arc Considering the the circumstances surrounding it as ember pointed out like we have to have some kind of falsification criteria and That the fact that nami the noa's arc ministry international was actually doing a noa's arc exhibit at the time in hong kong Leads a lot of skepticism to why they didn't publish any findings Scientifically and why they only did media press releases This suggests that they they were just doing a publicity stunt to to draw people to their exhibit that they happened to be doing at the same time now sort of Randall A man called randall came forward very very closely afterwards randall price. Sorry Who said that he had they hired kerch workers to haul things up the sea Up to the to the Structure And and sort of whistle blew on on nami They said that there was too far up. There was too hard to do But there was other a rat expeditions that actually did haul materials up like a 2007 publicity stunt when greenpeace built a replica of noa's arc up on the mountain So this is entirely possible They did have some samples from what they claim to be the The site they sent in however I do want to point out and this was an important part of my presentation about the other site and the I guess this applies to the half dozen to dozens sites that have been found in In sort of modern history of the arc all claiming to be found some were hoaxes um The the whole point is that it was sent to um andrew snelling who usually I I severely disagree with but is actually a The the foremost geologist um in um answers in genesis and uh creation minister international sorry david mcqueen, but he probably is um he basically said that The samples didn't show the right dates only one of the samples had the 4800 bp for carbon 14 dating um Snelling himself has said that the arc has not been found The reason why he cites this is because um mount ararat in turkey is a Volcanic mountain so as a um Sort of proponent of catastrophism Um that mountain would have to have been there after the flood or during the flood So he basically says it won't be found on that mountain because As he says it would have been sort of molten at that point So he actually doesn't think the arc has been found at all A lot of these creation places don't think the arc has been found at all This particular site um the the there's a lot of suspicion around it their lack of Scientific integrity the lack of archaeological expertise sent with them They no longer update their website to say that it is the arc They they basically have dropped it completely. Um, they keep saying that they will publish their findings. They never do Um, so I think there's a certain level of skepticism Um, especially on the motives of nami is is definitely warranted um, sort of is there a reason why they would um publicize a fake arc site while running a um an arc themed Uh a theme park in in uh, Hong Kong, of course there is of course there is it drew so much attention to their theme park But the problem is that they they have not provided in any way any way we can verify this Or as ember said the the other half dozen sites that that people say Um, I think it is very important I was going to mention the same that mount ararat is what they called the mountain after the fact The the the biblical text actually says the mountains of ararat Not mount ararat and that's very important because it could relate to Any number of mountains across the the bottom of turhi Um, yeah, so I might leave it there and I think that that you know, sort of the questions are Why didn't nami actually? Give the the samples to any mainstream scientists Why did the creationist scientists they gave it to geologists? They gave it to basically come back with a rejection of those those samples And um, what what exactly? Leads them to believe that this this is the actual arc rather than some other structure You got it. Thank you very much for that opening as well Before we jump into the open dialogue, we want to let you know folks first. Thanks for your feedback on the audio earlier Little quick housekeeping things one 100 of tonight's super chat donations are going to worldwide orphans They're linked to the description box. They have a great charity watchdog rating Another one is every time we do a charity stream We want to make sure that the charity that all of the super chats are going to Really uses the funds for the reasons that they say they are So check out their link in the description box and throw in a super chat to support the cause and Two if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button. We have many more debates coming up Including if you look at the bottom right of your screen Even would an iron walk ride on whether or not naturalism is true. That's a debate con Coming up saturday november 4th You're gonna miss it folks So it gets our linked in the description box if you're in the dallas area, you better be there. It's going to be a Neueson so check that out and we're going to go into the open dialogue. Thank you very much gentlemen The floor is all yours Woohoo that's that's really cool to hear about the charity thing. So yeah people send us lots of questions Anyway, it's nice Yeah uh You want us to the the responders by the way, I I answered some of the questions but it uh, I I recognize mark that you thought this was about the during per site and Then some of those of of course have already answered But you know typically, you know, there's With these debates, there's just a whole These debates over the flood been going on for many many centuries And so there's a whole list of questions and they're just all tossed out there But unless we focus on a single issues, you know, we we don't get very far In such an even in two hour debate So, um, uh, I would rather I think wouldn't you agree with that ember and mark and James. Oh, yeah It's super easy to get sidetracked into into the flood or Uh, no one himself may or may not be relevant tangentially, but Yeah, I'm good with with staying focused on the arc and I I mean Honestly, I don't think the nami sites all that good, but if you want to stay focused on that we sure can Yeah, you know, well, by the way, I I didn't was able to complete it, but uh as I've sort of moved in, you know, to With the archaeologists we now call this the malarit discovery not the nami site um, but um The on some of these, uh, yeah, I'm sorry didn't nami find it like No, nami did not find it Now we did, uh, uh, I'm an article found it But this is a site that the people of the mountain have have always known about But uh on some of these, uh charges that that were made and I'm surprised to see You're quoting these, um, this uh rental price of prophecy expert And he's not an archaeologist and you quote him as an expert And you would never quote these these, um Uh gentleman that she mentioned that supposedly debunked it in any in any other course Randall price the archaeologists that nami According to nami, he is Uh, well, nami's the photo of the nami team includes don patin geologist david mcqueen geologist and randall price archaeologists Well, I labeled that way by As a scientist I I work with mainstream scientists. I don't work with with those You know, uh, andry snelling's radio carbon dating, you know, if it dates to the proper date of the 4800 bp it conflicts with his radio carbon dating. So it's it's dated much too Uh, I mean if it's the exact date the problem is methodology, right? The problem is methodology here because um, this wasn't like severe questions brought into to the Sphere about how this was collected when was this this collected? How they got the samples there was there any contamination and those questions don't seem to be answered That is why you do a peer reviewed study and show How you got and how you did these sample collection And how you got those samples to the liberal poetry But they didn't do any of that what they did was get the samples That this apparently this turkish guy had collected and then send it off somehow to snelling And even then it didn't come back with the expected dates and snelling said hey And yeah, I wouldn't be quoting snelling under any other circumstance really, but you know He just happens to be one of the the main geologist for for creation ministry and he agrees that that Understand you're not you're not speaking to a creationist ministry You're yeah, I speak the language of mainstream science Okay Boy, it's just it's just if anybody had a reason Let me ask you this Yeah, these charges were made Uh, the source of these charges were never identified They came from an anonymous source and from a rival arch searching team Now why would you the start with why would you give on basis on either of those? Why would you give that credibility? Well, no, it came from Randall price. He was the senior archaeologist for arch search l lc expedition in Yeah, excuse me. Randall price would not give the source of those charges What do you mean the source? He was working on that particular project. What do you mean? He would not identify who gave that information that this was a made up site and In fact, otangelo did some investigating on that Yes, actually when I hear it in 2010 about that finding of the arch first I of course I was enthusiastic But then suddenly came up these claims that this was a film movie set. It was staged. It was fake and I basically dropped And I believed these stories And then when I met Philip on facebook And actually started to investigate And his story then that catched again my curiosity and I wanted to know what actually is the truth about this story And I actually have two long conversations um, recorded one with dom pattern and the other with murad sahin, which is The businessman in I I don't remember this the city nearby mount ararat Right, so first I had a one hour and a half talk to dom pattern And he was not able to provide one shred of heart Verifiable evidence of these claims that this was a fake Staged movie set on mount ararat. He was not able to give me any concrete evidence And then I called to I talked to murad sahin and he was even worse It was just hearsay. Oh, I hear it from people and just vague Um hearsay stories So both were unable to Back up their stories of the movie set and I also wrote to random price He didn't even get back to me. So that's basically from the Uh, that side of these stories that this was made up I have not seen any verifiable evidence pictures photos of people bringing that wood up to the mountain The claim was that this was ancient wood from ships at the black sea that was brought to Mount ararat to to to build up this this this stage All these stories I verified them and I have not seen evidence which would Actually back up these stories So I am very much up I am very much up to believe that it is a movie set If someone is able to actually provide That kind of evidence that would be necessary actually to to then believe that this is a movie set And we are talking not about just one side But us as I understand and and hear that this is a ship which is broken up in two parts So it's not just one wooden structure But for what I understood is that it was on the top of mount ararat until the 1800 or something like that then there was an earthquake And the the structure came down down in a crevasse during that earthquake broke up in two parts And then remain in two parts On that crevasse and it seems I think just to a second Attempts a lot you keep going from point to point to point to point your your gish galloping Okay, so let us address some of that which you're saying before you go on to yet another point Okay, so you're saying there's no evidence that it's a movie set. There's no evidence. It's the arc either That's the problem. Now. This is a guy that was hired and worked consultancy as the leading Archeologists for the place that discovered it. This is the problem you have Okay, and just because he doesn't get back to you when you sort of question him on it You know, I wouldn't blame the guy if he just wanted to leave the whole thing behind him because it's kind of embarrassing being associated with the with an organization that he claims has You know brought all this material up there So it's it's kind of strange that on no evidence whatsoever You're you're prepared to say hey, it's not a movie site But on no evidence whatsoever you're prepared to say it's the arc I might also add as well that nami only had sort of very few photos of it And they also said hey a mysterious force stopped out our photo equipment from working our video equipment from working Kind of thing I did all of these things add up to very little evidence for this this claim Why isn't this this sort of being submitted as a peer-reviewed article? Why hasn't this been being analyzed kind of thing and you're sort of saying hey It was two structures because of this earthquake. What evidence do you have that this earthquake actually happened? Did that damage might those two break apart? Have you got any evidence of that whatsoever? Yeah, it's great that you're skeptical of the movie set, but Having the same skepticism towards the arc claim would be really cool. Let's give by the way you've ignored what it said that Nami admittedly they're media organization. They didn't understand how they made all types of mistakes They they they didn't know how to do that. That's how I got involved and so I mean so yes all that information but Um Just to let you know uh red the price was never willing to meet with uh parachute or panda or or me Several dr. Norm geistler who appeared with me on fox news with this in 2015 You know, they were never willing to be uh cross-examined or or you know They wouldn't make their charges. They would only make them to other people what they would not make they would not would not Agree to meet with us and and and then make their charges um the um You know I did address that Yeah, I did address that I sort of said maybe he just wanted to leave the whole thing Yeah, okay, thank you because he he actually did an official statement on the world of bible ministries Like he made his statement about it and you know, maybe he did just want to leave it all behind him because you know the guy While I'm not sure his credentials on archaeology. He certainly is involved highly with with the ministry and theology, correct? Exactly, he's involved with an end date prophecy. Uh, you know, that's his that's his primary now. He is a You might say a biblical scholar, but and he's not he's he's not an archaeologist The other thing I just want to address that you mentioned in your thing that the Mount area was not recognized um as the as the site um Oh, okay, you're bringing up Uh, you're bringing you're bringing up the team, right? Uh, when they weren't they were the nami not knowing they don't know who's an archaeologist they Randall Proust has posed himself as an archaeology and so they at nami the media organization invited him but then uh when he was obviously not an archaeologist and in um Not somebody that parachute wanted to um work with Uh, uh parachute kicked him off the team He was begging to be part of the announcement up to almost the very week the announcement was made Clare way the little girl that I could put she's got emails from Randall Proust begging to be part of that announcement But when he when he when parachute wouldn't they would not parachute would not allow him And then he sent he had been raising all this money from his supporters. So he sent an email to his supporters explaining Then given that rumor he said well, we've heard this trying to distance himself from it and then michael hyzer who was a Bebo had a pay rail bible site. He put that letter on his site the christian science monitor picked that uh letter up from uh, Randall Proust And and published it and then of course that's where That's how the rest of the media picked up the charges of politics But uh a media should not have they should have discounted that for the fact that the source was anonymous and the um And it was a rival team.  Yeah, that's that's way Yeah, let's uh, so the let's address let's address this because it wasn't only Randall price. Was it? It was also another person their main geologist, um on on the thing This is nami's own photo And there's Randall price listed as a geologist don patin as a geologist and david the queen And most notably this is the uh, so-called wood from the arc Controversy in this picture. That's why don patin left the team Because nami claimed it was ancient wood and it turned out to be volcanic tough Joe, yeah gentleman, you know so little about this Right now that that wood was not part of the art discovery Well, this is this is their team, right? This is the team that went to find the arc This is the nami's team got caught in a fraud and patin left they did get caught in the fraud. Yeah Okay, so so this is the thing this is the same site that you're now claiming with no evidence whatsoever No evidence whatsoever that it is in fact the arc. You're just saying hey All of this stuff was handed in um the people that were given the samples even even very very staunch creationists that were given the samples said no this doesn't match up with what we should expect So it brings us back to a couple of embers questions. What would falsify this for you? Well precisely that's in fact, I've developed we're asking Okay to do that In fact, I I'm sorry. I wasn't able to finish the presentation It was just a few more minutes of how I got involved. Why why did I go to the defense of this discovery? And bring the archaeologists into it Well, I mean that I'm sure that's an interesting question But it's a different question from what mark asked which I originally asked which is What are the falsification criteria that would convince you this isn't the arc? Well, right, right. Well was well, you know, there's several things you were general, you know, like uh The mountains of air the Mount Ararat not be in the place of the site until the eighth century you say I mean this you you've been reading about this and you hear these types of things But Josephus in the first century writes against Alpion that it's it's located at the highest part of the mountains of Ararat So that would actually put it. We're exactly where we found it Well, the Bible doesn't say Mount Ararat. It says the mountains of the Mount of Ararat But please did you not listen to my presentation? I did listen. Yeah, got to be It's after another six weeks the tops of the surrounding mountains were visible Now obviously if you got some little logic about you, it's got to be at the highest place For the mountain for the surrounding mountains to be covered They can't I mean if you're there And you can't see a mountaintop you've got to be Higher than all the mountaintops except where your your ship landed Yeah, so Josephus, I don't really see him as a very Some of his stuff is reliable some of it isn't and that's the problem with Josephus There is stuff that we know that was not written by him That was made up in his writing. So he isn't the most reliable source ever He certainly isn't reliable when it comes to the rest in place of the ark You were just talking about how like sort of people wouldn't name their sources So you don't have any first. Well, just see first Certainly wasn't around when the ark landed and he would not like he may talk about stories, but This is kind of If if if basically it is true what their own people said Nami's people said that they hold these things up there Then of course, it's going to be reflective of where people say it is kind of thin. So What what I'm not hearing from you is any Falsification criterion I'm going to hold your feet to the fire over this one filler because I asked a direct straightforward Up question. What would falsify it and we've got nothing, but well, Josephus says it's in the right place In contradiction to what the bible says about it, notably What wait What what's in contradiction to what the bible says about the bible says the mountains of ararat If even if josephus does say it's the volcano agra doggy Then that's not the same as what the bible says Do I have to repeat this again? The very next verse when it says it lands at the mountain on the mountains of ararat it says It it took another six weeks for the water to go down For the tops of the surrounding mountains to be visible Now that if you've got some logic about you that puts it on the top of mount ararat Do you understand the logic people don't people don't agree And other creationists argue that agra doggy is opposed to a volcano Well, wait, wait, how how can you be looking down and not see I was looking all around and not being able to see the top Since it's around in mountains without it being at the one Well, there's a couple of problems. So first of all the bible definitely says a plural if it were a single mountain It should say so the second is that's an active volcano Which means it's been erupting periodically over the past several thousand years Which means today it is much taller than it was thousands of years ago Yeah, I think yes, that's wrong. So that's why we have all these earthquake. By the way, the earthquake in 1848 Is the historical records are there? No No no scholar. No one involved. No geologist doubts if the earthquake there was an earthquake in 1848 And that's when the people of the mountain say that the arch slid down in the In the glacier that it was in caps it Capsulate and that's when it broke Yeah, do you have a source on that story? Let me get back. Let me go back now. Listen, you're I think you've got You're not maybe you're not an engineer scientist But surely you can understand when you're looking around and you can't see The top since the surrounding mountains in fact the water's got to go down for another six weeks Before you can see the top of the surrounding mountain Don't you understand that that puts it on the highest the top of the highest mountain in their area? I think you're missing what what we're saying. So do you do you follow catastrophism? Is that something you subscribe to? Oh mainstream science subscribes the catastrophism now nowadays No, it doesn't mainstream science doesn't not at all About the dinosaur look, I don't want to get distracted. I want to be able to ask my questions here Right. So if catastrophism is true, then those the volcanic rock that makes up that particular mountain Mount Ararat as it's called today That would have to have happened after the flood, correct If listen, that's that's what the younger the creation is like snailing and them That's why they've been opposed to this site on the Mount Ararat Because the mountain sits on the top of their their flood evidence the same reason why they The one is they want to see the pyramids not built before the flood Because the pyramids sit on top of the flood evidence. I'm sorry the pyramids were built before the flood Now yeah, according to me. Yes interesting Because if the flood destroyed everything That that creates a bit of a problem for there being pyramids from before the flood or gobekli tepe for that matter Which is also in turkey not that far By the way, I just have a few more slides and if you could see you see this you understand you're you're I have you're I have a completely different narrative than the creation itself It is a world one flood. It is more like the blood of the bible It's exactly like the flow of the bible But I am not a younger creationist, please. Okay, and you're primarily you're used to and it's not your fault. You're used to The the meaning of that but I I work in mainstream sites and mainstream archaeology in fact, some of the Scientists that work on the density scrolls have been working on this project Okay, well, um, you know, they're good They're very good at radiocarbon dating by the way. I'm not sure but you're familiar with tough and tough out Yeah, you mean volcanic tough. Yeah Yeah, do you know do you know how tough tough forms? Right that by the way that that that was A volcanic tough that they had there But exactly that's my point. That's my point. Do you know what happens when water hits tough like while it's being formed Yeah, uh, by the way, I know you're following the arguments that Lyle and they'll made when they were when they were arguing again No, I answer the question it basically becomes mud and then shale, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure Yeah, so that means that that that mountain while while it was falling was never underwater Right or the tough would that isn't the mountain is an ancient mountain So tough is volcanic rock that's been compressed Volcanic ash sorry that's been compressed if basically that is submitted to water It becomes mud essentially tough doesn't form So you're basically saying that somehow Huff has been forming all this time even through a flood Hey, is this the mountain the volcanic mountain? Wouldn't you expect the Yeah But I wouldn't expect it to be like underwater. What was what's the relevance of that? So so if if it's underwater you should find layers of shale One time it was underwater for a short period of time. Yes Oh, really can can you can you yeah, I don't think that's If if this if this is a ship and if it floated there the mountain was underwater Yeah, I guess our point is that that mountain that volcanic mountain was not always that high That these layers of tough are from volcanic ash being compressed and made into tough or toughite Um, there was no point like we do not find a layer of of shale underneath that That structure that you're talking about what we find is tough and toughite So the idea that the waters were had had flooded over this volcanic ash And then it formed into toughite is completely unrealistic But please please there's so much about the actual discovery, you know, you're quoting Misinformation, okay? Oh, no tough has nothing to do with the discovery The exception they were showing a picture of ember showed them with a piece of tough You're not talking with a media person You're talking with someone who works with archaeologists and who archaeologists want to work with me and science I work with mainstream science. So Irrelevant it has nothing to do with I mean what in fact I did answer prices Report that he did on this has been published on Norm Geistner's site in very detail went through Said what what was right about it? What was wrong about it?  Not me. We're not an archaeologist Are you an archaeologist? Uh, I do work with archaeologists and okay, so you're not an archaeologist either This is the I'm not a doctor, but I've worked with doctors. Does that qualify me to speak about medical matters? Well, listen, I had I was an Invited guest to the executive committee of the american schools of oriental research. Do you know who the american schools of oriental research are? Um, I I know that sort of oriental is kind of a really insulting term Oh, that's that that ace or that you mentioned Yeah, they changed the name they changed the name of ace or because of that reason For for many years. It was the most vulnerable organization involved with archaeology of the ancient near east I mean, uh, we them up. Uh, all bright was one of the founders of it Uh, the Israeli archaeologists were taught by the Okay, okay. Yeah, Philip. Philip. My point is that you're sort of leveraging against us that we're not archaeologists and we're not No, no, I'm sorry. Hang on. Hang on. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish We're not we're not these we don't have these credentials The same can be said of you your field is in telecommunications. I believe Yeah, but my knowledge of archaeology. Okay, I've just let me you talk about falsifiability. I've just enough book to uh, to explain to archaeologists the archaeological context of this site in fact the prehistoric archaeology, uh, in general To to provide the test to be able to falsify whether this is the arc or whether it's not the arc You imagine that No matter how much you do on anything historical you can never prove it, but you can disprove So we we have got a methodology to disprove Cool, what is it? What I what I think is interesting here Nobody actually talks about the fact that there is a wooden structure On mount Ararat which Philip has visited. He has been there. He has made videos on the structure It is as far as I understood a huge wooden structure with and I have Counted how many different kind of wood structures and wood planks that there are And I have count over 150 different types of planks and they are not small structures. They have Considerable size And Philip has been there. He has filmed that and if we are talking here about classification for me Visual information videos. This is evidence and you guys simply dismiss it Say, oh, this is just a certification movie set. Which has been put there. No, there is no There is a the villager ever be built besides here say that this is a movie The villagers who built it are not here say you guys simply dismiss it And think it is just a made up structure. I would really like to hear Philip telling us about what he Thinks that he actually saw there be key because he is my witness He has let's be able to to address what you said So I would really like to give to pure I've seen video of haunted houses where they show ghosts and monsters Does that mean there's ghosts and monsters for real or is somebody faking us out? Plus, this isn't based upon This isn't based upon nothing for a start. Hang on. No, no, no I gotta address what like a tangelo says stuff and then wants to move onwards. We're not moving onwards I'm addressing what you're going to say. Oh tangelo. We're not just gonna Click past it and ignore it. So the first claim was kind of Falsification when you said falsification what you said is there's evidence for it. That's not what falsification is Falsification is what would disprove it? What would be the criteria? This thing is not Let me finish So when when you say when you say there's evidence for it when you say hey, I've seen That would actually seriously A real structure. One sec. Just because there's too much people can't hear either side if there's too much. Yeah Yeah, yeah, listen, I know this can I talk? Yeah, yeah, well, well, I want to want to finish saying what I was saying Yeah, so so when you're talking falsification, you're talking what would disprove it not talking about what you think proves it Right. So that's that's the first thing second thing It's not based on no evidence based upon the testimony of the people that were actually up there The the main archaeologist and one of the geologists that nami said were their people It's based upon the samples coming back and no Laboratory has found them to have the accurate dates. There's a lot of evidence that that is not the arc Now you're basically saying hey, but there's a structure up there. Sure. There's a structure up there How do you tell it's the arc? Okay, okay All right, can I yeah, can I speak a little bit here? Sure Okay, um I um, you know, I I recognize that nami was not an archaeological organization Of course, I'm not an archaeologist, but I know I know archaeologists. Okay, and and uh, the The the the archaeologists they they don't know what this is But they recognize that it's not a recent fabrication Oh Well, the start was said that can you cite somebody? Yeah, uh, I I can I can cite the archaeologist The official from my store who went with me when in fact they said, you know, just a matter of intelligence. How do you Uh, how do you fabricate surface rot on timber? How do you if you if you can recreate this as a movie set when you take them and then cover it up like Randall Price and and Don Patton changed that means that you've got to The only way you could actually fabricate this Is you've got to build the ship up on the mountain then you've got to Push it off and create this great wreckage that exists on the on the mountain Do you know how Do you though? Okay, how how much how how much of the wreckage did you personally see like 100 feet worth? Like you don't you don't have to build the whole boat right right. Well, there's there's several sections. Okay No, I have I only saw one of the sections of it. I I can see a I could see a Level below me and I could see a level above the In fact the video. I don't know if you've seen the video that's uh That gary alton did a photo video with my words and my photographs. It's got number six million views and You know It's impressive but see there And the the amount of wood and and the construction of the wood now Let's let's talk about this being looking like new wood. You want to talk about it? Well, I'd like to address that wood Okay, so the grander price said that they got it from old structure near the black sea and then pulled it up there Basically, so when you're saying hey, it's got wood rot It's like well, if it was pulled from an old structure, of course it would have wood rot You're expecting it to have like if if they got it from fresh from the mill kind of thing And that's not what anybody is saying So it is it is not it is not unexpected if they did get it from an old structure as Randall says that it would have wood rot on it Okay, basically he said it's round the price You know, I've read his reports more thoroughly than any of you. Okay He basically says it's recreated each time because they have to hide it You know, they have to take it down. They build this movie set and then they take it down Just the amount of work involved in this and when you look at this just a structure I visited I question I mean the archaeologists that don't give us any attention They just question the intelligence of someone who could actually believe that And plus you're basing this on a anonymous source From a rival archaeological team And you're not suspicious and you're not suspicious I could be an anonymous source if you know it's from a rival team Showing of people bringing up wood up on Mount Ararat to construct this site How is it possible that they make this claim and there is no evidence whatsoever That this is a place which has been constructed by construction workers This is heavy wood which has to be boat. It has to be brought to the mountain Where is the evidence there is that claim and it is just a claim Don't patent in one and a half hours of conversation wasn't able to bring me one kind of hard evidence that this claim is true Murat Mahin even worse. He just said that he here did from other people So my question is if you guys believe that this is a movie set which was staged I want to see the evidence for this claim because until now I have not seen it Well, okay, first of all, that's totally aside from the point because whether or not it's a movie set That is a separate question from whether or not it's the arc But as to those particular points don patent produced his own video where he went up to the site Which is no longer accessible because the glacier moved Brought there by the people who told him they built the set if you believe the bible which is based on testimony Then the fact there's people alive today giving testimony that you could go there and talk to yourself if you want to Testifying they did this work. They built this thing I don't see why there would be a problem with that But more importantly they gave Don a piece of the wood From the site that they used and it is modern. He shows it in his video No And this isn't testimony from just anybody or random people. This is testimony from the head archaeologists on that Expedition and from one of the geologists on who was the archaeologist? Who was the archaeologist? Randall price apparently He's not an archaeologist By the way done patents the site they visited was not at the same elevation of the site So this is this is the problem.  Are they? No No, well, I'm sorry. I couldn't visit It's it's it's really Very bad that I didn't finish the the explanation Uh, first of all, we can't do any test on this site until it's under um, archaeological Um permission And uh, this being a war torn mountain uh the They have never given archaeological permission for um For a site on this mountain Uh, they're they're security reasons now that might not be the case, but this has to be done properly Uh, by the way, there has been peer written articles on this i've written one And doctor Yeah, uh, well It's in there's been a number of archaeological conferences held Uh concerning this and um, and yeah, these will these these will be good But let let me let me move on You know right now why why we can't do these in fact Nami got in trouble by doing what they did because they they did not antiquities laws are pretty severe And we followed them, uh, you know, it's exacted because we would lose our everything if we didn't and and um, you know, we you cannot break laws there was a gentleman, um I forgot what his name is. He presented that at one of the asor meeting Joel clink He was an archaeologist a harpy train archaeologist, but he had um, he had he had broken some Some laws and so he he's tossed out of the Of the the project on based on that or at least um, the asor felt like that he did that but um, but you know right now, uh I I can show you why I went through the defense based on my archaeological work and I written a book to Provide the methodology to determine a test that would falsify this. This is not no, sorry And and no matter how much you do You know anything historical you cannot Prove it. I mean you can always speculate something else and no matter what it is You know, you can speculate whether the seas are really cross the Rubicon You know, you know, you were talking I gave you just Cephas Yeah Hopefully no more referred to when you when you start tossing out And then you've tossed out everything and you can prove nothing When you can know nothing about history Because if if somebody's made a mistake you you toss it out and you can find reasons for tossing out evidence I mean if you if you if you want to do it that way So you that's that's not the way it works, but you do want things you do want to test You do want testable criteria And that's what I want to work. Do you want to go on to Josephus or me? Yeah, I'll just mention Josephus real quick. I I did look that up while Mike was on about uh volcanic tuft and what Josephus says is that Quote there's a great mountain in Armenia over Meneas called Barris upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the deluge were saved So Josephus says the mountains What are you what are you reading in Armenia? Oh, yeah, what are you reading antiquity is 93 All right. Well, that's not what I'm quoting. You need to go against the Alpion Yeah, the associate of biblical research says that Josephus identifies the mountains of the Ucbaris as being in Armenia and the land of Iratu And another name for the land of Ararat which is not the same as Mount Ararat in Turkey Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, uh, you need to go to uh, Josephus actually wrote another book one of my favorites of his I guess Alpia There's where you will find the statement that he lives at the highest part of the mountains of Armenia I mean, you don't hear that quoted No, it's because you read the But from biblical scholarship What like like the turk is Mount Ararat the highest mountain in Armenia Yes, sir That gives the highest mountain in Asia near east I mean, that's all cool and stuff Josephus doesn't say what you said Josephus said the mountain is volcanic even Top of I All these tangential things, but you keep saying you have a methodology to falsify that this might be the arc But you just keep saying that what is the methodology I've I've I've published it in my recent book ancient life. Okay. So so a book anybody can write a book Okay, we don't we don't he has been there. What else because every let me let me say Let me speak. I've seen the place. What what more do you guys want? Well, it's not an ancient criteria.  That's Angelo To be fair, that's Angelo Hold on. Oh, tangelo. He he did let you speak and you asked a question So I just want to give mark a chance to answer that question It's it's not enough to go to a place and say, hey, there's wood there. It looks like what I'm expecting to find It looks like this. It looks like that. That's not how we do things for anything That's the problem with the durapinda site. We basically saw it. It looks like a boat. Then it's a boat No, we don't do that what we do is some scientific testing to establish that that thing is actually the thing that that it is And we've got multiple reports that it is fabricated We've got problems with with the organization that found it We've got problems with any archaeologist or geologist backing this up We've got all these problems around it and you want to say, well, where's the evidence that it's not the arc? And that is not how science is done You need a falsification criteria to say, hey, if this isn't the arc This is what we expect to find and be able to Substantiate that by making tests in order to overcome that falsified ability criteria Excuse me science is not done by the way you're talking But take an unidentified report you said multiple reports about this Would you provide me those multiple reports saying that this was the built of fabricated structure? Uh, yeah, but I've named the people that did the reports. I can find their sort of public deck.  We've just been talking about it Yeah, yeah, well, that was a report done Randall Price did a report the only one I'm aware Yeah Yeah, but but science does not use Anonymous sources I'm gonna say that should be on unlike the bible But that's that's totally aside the point before tangelo interrupted you You were just about to talk about falsification criteria Yeah, yeah, but you're using the worst type of science to argue against this What false people confessing that they built the thing you're reading anonymous reports by people who have a motive to disparage this Okay, you've got a high do they should have a false Should have a falsification criteria Yes, I have one. What is it? Uh, it concerns the the the pottery That's under ceramics and other cultural identifiers in the arc and how that matches the migrations from this site Have you had that pottery tested to make sure that it is from the mesopotamian area? The the pottery now is in a in a museum in turkey Uh, uh, and the it's it's licensed. It's you know archaeologists do this Okay, do you have any insight the proposal dark is the The the problem here.  Uh, because you're not giving us any kind of actual report of this or actual analysis of this You're just claiming they found pottery in your structure. That's now in a museum in turkey You would think those people would be able to identify the pottery.  Can you give us some sort of? This pottery was published in the very reports you mentioned pictures of it That's when I first saw it and I said, oh wow This is matching the uh, Kubrick Kerak migrations Now, you know, you don't understand what any of that means, but if you were an archaeologist, you would But you're not an archaeologist either. So can you give us a citation for that pottery being? I don't have to be an archaeologist to understand archaeology. You know how to be an archaeologist I'm not a digger. I'm not an archaeologist, but I don't have any problem Getting archaeologists to work on this project. In fact, they Many of them want to work on the project Well, can you give us some sort of link for this this pottery that you're saying proves them? Yes, certainly. Okay. Uh, in fact, I think just very briefly go back to my slide show. Is that possible? You know, which will answer so many of these questions Okay, let me uh Yeah, uh here I'll switch it to my slide show here, but now I've got to get to my slide show Here I am. I think okay. All right here here is a this is um, is there a way I hate to ask forgive me, but I If I stretch the screen They won't be able to see that it'll be very very blurry. Could you do the screen share that you did earlier in the debate? I think that let me if I can do that. Okay. I I have to find zoom somewhere Is this uh And screen share so On the zoom window, usually there's a green button in the middle, uh either on the top or the bottom of the Yeah, yeah, there it is. There it is. Okay. Um And uh, I want to share that. Okay I think Okay, can you see that? Yes Okay All right. I'm speaking about you know, if this is Noah's art Uh The historical sciences have are made some great mistake. Would wouldn't you agree with that? I mean, is it possible that the historical sciences Could could be wrong about something That's that's happened a lot how Right, right. Okay. It's possible, but here's a new strike. They actually have that's the problem All right. Here's my narrative now. I made by the way before I said I mentioned the creation of science I mentioned the mainstream science narrative Well, we're not really interested in narratives. I mean anybody can make a narrative. It doesn't Demonstrate anything. Well, if you're going to talk about the Origins or the ancient history, you're going to have to have some kind of narrative Uh, now here's the mainstream science narrative You know, here's what this looked like the ice age and there's cavemen Uh, the ice age and then of course, uh, Man his origins began on earth as a hunter gather. You know, you know this during the ice age of several million years ago Okay, I don't get what this got to do with this By the way, this through lyle created the antiquity of man that created the problem Um, and then of course according to the mainstream narrative after the ice age you have the invention of agriculture in the fertile crescent Uh, you had cities in civilization that follow You have, um They're supposed to be continuous. They're not You have therefore the flood story of the bible must be A broad age myth. That's the standard work and there's many of course many scientific problems with the worldwide flood I think you understand this is the mainstream narrative, right? Okay, now let's get I don't Get what this has got to do with it. Yeah, for the sake of argument That's what's just I'm just showing you what I'm presenting because you have to know what the standard narrative is That's kind of okay. Here's here's the creation science narrative that you've been addressing For the last hundred years has been the only explanation of a worldwide flood Is focused on 24 hour creation days, you know this And therefore young earth flood is used to explain fossils like the dinosaurs It's mostly a fish killing blood There's little or no evidence in the creation science knowledge about people who perish And of course, they can't do what I'm doing tracing the historical nations. In fact Mainstream science hasn't been able to do it And because the Mount area sits on top of their evidence the young earth evidence Then this can't this has to be according to them a post flood block Anna That's what I've heard them say Like Andrew's telling they have been the chief opponents of this discovery All right. Now. Here's my narrative First of all, of course, it's new According to me there never was a nice age Okay, I feel this is really irrelevant to what we were discussing Yeah And you're kind of running off the rails from point one Okay. Well You'll see why I'm having to present this The geological evidence that's been presented as I say Is actually the evidence of the flood In fact, it was it was regarded by the geologists as the flood This is your catastrophism the diluvium the american journal science was based on diluvium geology in which there was a worldwide flood And whether it covered all the mountains that was not complete agreement And then I put in my narrative. There was actually no rain during this period There was a different type of water hydrological cycle Now if you think about this as connected with the ice age, there was obviously something different in the ice age whether Even if you don't agree with my narrative But according to my narrative human civilizations across the world perished in the flood And so were these megafa these mammoths and you know, some of them they disappeared only about about the time of the flood But on all continents by the way And and I can trace historical nations from out area. I've written a book on We can possibly confirm that this discovery is likely no one's heart if these migrations Are imagine if we could show that the historical nations came from this mountain we can show this Yes, so so just Okay, this has got nothing to do with it, but we know that Yes, it does.  I can give you a little bit to wrap up maybe another 30 seconds And then we're actually getting to the point where we usually a fill up, please Phillip fill up. I'm gonna give you a chance to answer his question. It's me james I'm gonna give you a chance to answer his question I just Want to give you a heads up that we usually do go into the q&a in this last 30 minutes So I do have to ask if you're able to maybe just give a quick succinct like 30 second wrap up It goes very fast. Okay, but but but you look at what I'm saying here But what's called most of the prehistoric civilization? Uh that have been explained as religious burials were actually from the drowning Uh the uh prehistoric men from the high sages of the early bronze age The chronology they're really kind of overlapping. They were not developed from archaeology Layers they were developed from anthropology And projected on that so mankind i'm i'm actually uh even though i'm an oler I'm showing that mankind has probably not been around more than about 6 000 years Now that uh, I have a more on the days of you know, this is the complete thing I'm skip over this But I just want to mention that the bible was unique in teaching about a world without man Other literatures even adjourned in like but when they believe They they cannot conceive of the world without man, but the bible has okay I hate to do this Phillip, but we just we have limited time and this is I hate to do it Okay, but I just wanted to explain to you I went to the defense of this because I saw the archaeology that was published in this report That was supposed to be Disconfirming it and I saw it matching the pottery that was was leading from the ark Showing that the nations are really coming from this site. That's why I went to the defense of it Based on archaeological reasons Based on only what I actually from the evidence I actually saw now that's so you saw Let me try to steal man You saw a photo of pottery that to you from the photo looked like other pottery that confirms this hypothesis you'd been brewing about a a mixture Of standard science and young earth creationism with young humans and and a global flood What what is young humans and global flood have to do with? Well, that was what I was wondering during your presentation Yeah And I must say I must say just quickly. Um, we can tell from genetics from haplo groups haplo group sort of L came from from Africa Not not from from tinker and and it's weird because you sort of mentioned in your introduction mitochondrial eve, but mitochondrial eve wasn't the eve of the bible We know there were other women around at the time That's just the female that all mitochondrial dna leads to when you go backwards It's interesting because chromosome y atom isn't a completely different time frame So they're just words used to describe something. So we know that humans did not originate in turkey We know that humans originated in Africa due to genetic haplo groups and the way those haplo groups diversify Did you know the population matt a mix of the genetic part? I was in reverse. I'm sorry Well, I mean, that's what what the science says about genetics the way these Yeah, the science very much stops the out of Africa hypothesis There are many new discoveries which put that in question Well, well, you'll have to have to show me those one day otangelo because I don't know any mainstream Yeah, I mean I had to do my presentation, but I was cut off. So yeah This might be a good opportunity to go into the q&a going to say first couple of quick housekeeping things First our guests are linked in the description if you'd like to hear more You certainly can by clicking on their links below So as mentioned if you have been living in a cave on mars with your fingers in your ears and you didn't know bait con our fourth In-person debate conference hosted by modern-day debate is in dallas, texas on saturday november fourth and sunday november fifth You don't want to miss it tickets Well on sale now you can grab them down below in the description box Also, there's a crowd fund if you're listening from afar You can help support the project as we have things like venue costs and you can get for example assigned Furl of your favorite speaker. You don't want to miss it Check out that crowd fund linked in the description and thanks for all your support on that That crowd fund meter is shown on the right side of the screen in case you were wondering what that was Now for the q&a we want to move through these as fast as possible And also want to say thank you folks and most of all thank you very much to our debaters for making this debate possible 100 of the super chats for tonight's debate are going to go to worldwide orphans We'll post the link for the donation receipt and that way you can match up the amount for the super chats and that way We have that full transparency for the Donation we always want to have that accountability So folks feel free to email me if you want to see the full receipt for the donation I'm happy to send that to whoever asks, but we're going to jump right into it right now Our friend says just show me the ark. Well tangelo He said not the one in williams town, kentucky That is fake. I don't know about this one. Where's williams town kentucky Is that only talking about the ark encounter or is that something else? No, that's um, that's not in kentucky I think somebody yeah built a replica like a small replica or something Wow, that's juicy Well, okay, that's okay. Well, is that the ark encounter? No, that is the ark. Yeah, i'm completely wrong Yeah, AIG is based in kentucky. I'm not sure it's williams town But I can't see there being multiple arcs that close together. It is williams town I didn't think it was there's one on every corner But there is the right mark. I'm not about orago a gentleman. I think he's like in sweden I think he's in europe somewhere Pen mark or something. Yeah, yeah Yeah, I remember hearing about that too super interesting. So and that one actually wasn't made of concrete and floated which was interesting Wow, this one coming in from obviously it was a lot smaller Beamsie says for ark. Yes One photo shows a spider wrap in one of the corners Is it possible for spiders to live at that height? survive in that oldness of temperature For photographs they've positioned much lower than four kilometers Yes, I have actually investigated this And there are spiders which live up to that Hate so yes, this is possible Four kilometers. Oh, yeah, I'll talk to barman's up there and they have something to eat You got it this one coming in from do appreciate it Jamesy strikes again says for the ark side again They say the guide leading the search Slash mission is known to be very unreliable. Why did they hire him anywhere? I don't know what this is about I'm an arta girl Uh aka parachute the guy who uh hired the villagers to build the sets and then brought the nami team to the sets Yeah, he's been caught on a number of different frauds No, excuse me. None of you know this man I know this man. I know Both sides of his family. He knows both sides of my family very well And Yeah, you're you're you're just slandering the man It's not slander if it's true Yes, this is just But you're just taking slander And and and and quoting it as fact and then you and then you're you're wanting to talk science No, I would love to talk science, but we haven't done very much of that tonight every time we try to approach science We we ask about falsification criteria and you give this this long litany of random stuff We we we ask about uh the pottery that you talked about and you go on a 10 minute slide show And never actually get that battery No, you didn't No, you didn't you said you there was a number of criteria based around the pottery and none like the pottery was basically Yeah, well, can can we test that is that is that something that's The archaeologists will be testing that Okay, so when is that and I think I think it's interesting that embers other questions was when are you actually going to publish this Considering your promise to you all these times Did you hear me say that the government has not Given an archaeological permission for this anything on this mountain And there's That's also interesting considering I was just watching earlier today a team from new zealand bragging about how They got authorization from the government and permits to dig at the dirup in our site So the government is giving out permits to investigate supposed arc sites Yes, uh, I think that yeah that that information your information a little old Yeah, but actually the government is getting interested in this so in fact, uh that site I created them I'm glad they did that because it brought it showed how much interest there is in Noah's Ark and this mountain And so that's that's that's a big help uh, even You know, they have You got it. Let me check this out folks. Let me know if my I've got to plug this You can hear me On the yeti On the yeti right now So right now i'm using the yeti Is this mic Can you hear me is the sound normal? It doesn't sound like someone was telling me in the chat that it sounded as if I was uh Speaking over a loud speaker from the 1940s Doesn't sound like that Weird let me see it is okay I have no idea what's going on someone says it's good now. They're saying okay Thanks for your feedback folks. I don't know. Uh, I'm so surprised. I just anyway Next question. Thanks very much for your Question from big bang flying wane says sick gibbon Where the the ark with heat problem? juicy and Happy clam says if found would I turn the image to the ark help chud logic? with his Sadness he's down bad and could use a break from his prolonged coon Goon sesh. I don't know. I hope he's doing all right. He will be a debate con by the way folks He's stairs Huh, I can't hear you one more time Better up his mood. Okay. Sorry. I'm like my my brains and his doesn't do a good job of like separating words This one from eight stairs says james audio is like infrared with his high gain Love you modern day debate. It is true when we started the debate. My audio is like I don't know what happened. Thank you for this one from me Mythra dates six says can philip admit that he Is not that he's refusing to show the pottery and that He why wouldn't he show them instead? Just want he's you just went on a tangent. They they sounds like they wanted to see the pottery Whoa Okay, let me just fix this What one sec It is. I'm sorry about this No I know I know I I'm just saying they can't hear you one sec. I just want to figure out I don't know what it is. I don't know why the desktop audio all of a sudden Vanished on me. I've never had that happen. Geez Louise um Bear with me. Sorry about this guys. I have no idea what is going on Let's see So how do I let me just I'm going to read it as an audio source And pardon my interruption in the meantime folks check out our guest linked down the description box I'm just adding in a new audio input namely desktop Audio, so let me look for that right now Unplug it and plug it back in Okay, now it's back Can you say that again? Unplug it and plug it back in I don't know what it is because the desktop audio is like basically I'm telling obs to reject my audio that I'm hearing from like zoom and I didn't even do anything that should affect it in its back. So Uh, thanks for your patience. Albert hank next question said drop a dollar. Let's see Ask for Loki renarsen says I got so lost there in the end if it was my audio forgive me friend and I think that's it for the question So we don't want to say you folks if you have any last questions quick get them in I'm just quick skim over the chat. We had one just come in now They say after show locked and loaded Oh, it's dr Dino, you're right. This is a different person than I thought mark in number. Sorry about that. Yeah. Thanks for that Um, dr. Dino if I'm saying it right They say after show locked and loaded creationist pressions Enthusias and etc are all welcome open mic mark a number have the link Good show boils. I'm happy to put that in the description box So let me just throw that in there right now But that's who was okay ember if you have it, let me know and I can add that into the description box For people to check that out grab it real quick here Making me do work. What's up with that? Thanks for your uh Thanks for doing that. I uh We didn't share it in chat. I although I think it's because the I don't I don't know if you if people can share Links in the live chat. I think youtube It's either youtuber or settings. I don't know if we if people are able to but let me check Eamesy says on june on the 15th of june 2023 an archaeological expedition To examine the air rat anomaly on the western summit at approximately 39 degrees 40 North 44 et cetera degrees including artifact removal Does anybody know what they mean? I I don't know. It's not the site that I visited You got it Yeah, that's that's been the most popular site for the arc on mal area. It is that in that Work what were you mentioned, but it's not the site that I visited or that nami reported You got it this one from Tap team. Thanks for the feedback on the mic. I didn't mean to be peaking so is uh You said your mic audio is great not serviceable might want to check it sometime. I'll check that This one coming in from narrow the atheists at excellent job mark and ember guys got a fan For your team there then there is awesome Hmm Yeah, so Want to say thanks folks for tuning in That is it for the questions that I've got here So I want to say thanks folks for tuning in We're going to let our guests rest for the rest of the night I want to say huge. Thank you otangelo philip mark and ember. It's been a true pleasure to have you guys tonight Elliot I did have you back on the mic James Yeah with that I'm gonna be back in just a moment folks with a post credit scene Letting you know about upcoming debates. So stick around for that and thanks for watching folks stick around I'll be back in about 20 seconds and one last thank you to our speakers Amazing not your friends want to say thanks so much for all of your support glad that you are here and also want to say That was a fun debate. We do appreciate you whether you be atheist christian muslim you name it We are glad that you were here at modern day debate We appreciate you hanging out with us and we're happy to feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from I'm gonna let you know about a couple of upcoming things. So if you didn't see this already As you can see at the bottom right of your screen flipping it over to David wood and r and r we'll be debating. You don't want to miss this. It's going to be a fun one That's a debate con coming up this November 4th. You're excited about this you guys these are a lot of fun these conferences I'm going to tell you I am absolutely thrilled to get to host this And what i'm going to do is load up my camera right now because I know that I disappeared on you Here I am right on to say thanks for your support folks I've got to say we've got so many people that support modern day debate in so many ways It wouldn't run with without being a community effort for real like I'm just one guy sending out emails in the background And the truth is there are just so many people that help modern day debate in all sorts of different ways so we want to say thank you to them and Thank you for your donations be a super chat tonight to worldwide orphans. We do a monthly charity stream here where Because that's important to us Sometimes it's it's often as we've been doing worldwide orphans a lot But we've also given to save the children. These are non-partisan Charities that are helping people in poverty across the world and in particular as you can probably guess worldwide orphans is in particular trying to help Orphans oftentimes they've maybe lost their families like Their parents maybe in warfare or whatever it might be And this is an organization that says hey like we don't care what country you're from what religion or lack of religion No matter if you're just a person we want to help you in particular. They want to help orphans across the globe So I want to say thank you guys for your support of that Also, I'm going to tell you I am so excited to be here you guys Because I haven't hosted a debate for like almost a month. Isn't that crazy? so thanks for uh being patient as I work out all the tech stuff tonight and Like the audio. Yeah, that's what i'm talking about Thank you for your feedback on that I've got to tell you if you can see at the bottom or the far right of your screen This is the go fund me meter For how much we've raised and so our goal is a thousand dollars and you might be thinking like james like Oh, like so you can go on vacation. No, actually these in-person events are really expensive Now we're looking for ways that we can cut costs so For example, we're like wow, I was like maybe you know because we put the speakers up for a night before they're speaking and then the night of They're speaking so if they speak saturday at 12 p.m We give them a hotel night If they're in outer town or uh, we're you know, they'll come in they'll fly in on friday night And we cover their flight and then we'll put them up for a night Friday night at the hotel and for us. It's really important We want them to feel comfortable and be more rested for their talk so we don't want them to have to fly at five in the morning or something and the thing is It's important to us And those costs add up so the crowd fund which I highly encourage you if you haven't checked it out Check out the crowd fund. It's linked in the description box And this is where you can sign up for cool perks like a signed photo of your favorite speaker Or I could be a signed emblem page from the event where it's signed by all the debaters for that day So for example, I'd be like destiny for the political debates day as well as like chud logic And leo and sean Fitzgerald actual justice warrior. So that's like those are cool things It's also if you're like wow, I was like, I don't know if I can give it, you know at one of those tiers But you know, maybe I just give like a couple of bucks because I'm like, hey, I just like the channel Thanks for you know putting these on because it's fun to watch that means more than you know so we want to say for now we really do appreciate that and The last conference I'm going to be totally honest with you guys. We actually are still Not quite. I think I've got to do the math but last time I checked we were not Uh in the in the black or in the green, whatever you want to call it in terms of Total revenue so in other words tickets sold the crowd fund and then youtube revenue That's how we cover these conferences. So like these are not they're not really making money It's more just about it's a fun time debaters. We're kind of building relationships We're also expanding the modern day to make brand as we want to keep YouTubes free or debate channel as we have the vision of providing a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field No matter who whether they be atheists, whether they be christians muslims. We want to give them a fair shot Whether they be politically left politically right libertarian in the middle Whatever we want to give everybody their fair chance to make their case And when we do these conferences though, yeah, it's I think sometimes people are like, oh, it's like It must be raking in the money. It's like no the reason we do a crowd fund is it's a safety net Because it's actually it's pretty tough to break even so Our first conference. I still don't know if you've broken even on that one Because you know the cool thing is like you're gonna have a debate that still brings in revenue like months later So that's one cool thing that is like protective for us like where it's like, okay. Well, you know, eventually We'll we'll have that revenue come back but Sometimes it's like, whoa, I gotta be honest the last conference. It was like, holy moly Our expenses were huge for ticket sales. Frankly, I think our ticket prices weren't priced right. That was my fault Uh, but yeah, so we're still making up for that one And so that's why we do those crowd funds is that any access that we have whether it be through ticket sales or the crowd fund We want to put it toward the next conference Such as getting bigger names bigger guests For modern day debate to continue growing. So I want to say thank you guys for all of your support though If you are in the Texas area, are you from to actually let me know in chat I I actually get a kick out of this one. I'm in other live streams and they do it Let me know where you're from like what city are you from? I'm in fort collins. I'm going to type that in the chat right now I'm in fort collins Colorado case you didn't know that's where that is Is i'm in fort collins, Colorado And let me know in the chat where you guys are watching from i'm wondering I'm like we've got a couple people couple hundred people watching 244 If you're in Texas, let me know does anybody like was watching right now in texas. I would think like If each state is equally represented and there are 250 people watching I mean, of course, you've got a global audience. So some people are watching from europe right now But in australia, especially europeans are mostly asleep by now, but If we had roughly let's say we had 200 of our people viewing right now or from the united states And then that would mean about four on average from texas, but texas has a bigger population than average So it's got more than its fair share of Viewership in terms of us citizens. So it would be a bigger proportion of that 200 So it's probably more like I would guess they're probably like Six or seven people watching right now during this live stream that are in in texas. So If you are so you got ramila, thanks for sharing and said I'm all the way in sydney australia. Wow, renulia. Sorry. I said that wrong the first time. Thanks for letting me know that And chase in texas. What do you know that even in the username chase is in texas? And says they're in knobby cock. Well, thanks for watching from texas chase And we have happy clams from new york city And then sim life from new york as well as at sea road island christopher fischer glad to have you here myth Myth redates six from salem, massachusetts. I had a friend dr. Becca brizwa from salem, massachusetts I don't know if you'd know her, uh, but yeah, she's uh in the same program.  I can't remember to get is there a city that Do each of them had have a city called naeira falls? I don't know Uh, let's see new mexico from space minor from new mexico. Captain masseri from finland. Wow Thanks for seeing a blade with us and Let's see Carlton said just bought two tickets live 10 minutes away. Wow Now that's awesome. Thanks for buying. We are excited. It's going to be so much fun for real I love these because I'll obviously be there ryan will also be there and The speakers who oh, I should show you guys I haven't shown I haven't done a good job of showing you guys these epic posters So let me show you this really quick and then I promise I'm going to come right back Because I know more people told me where they're watching from and I'm pumped to hear where you guys are from so poster one And this is I just love these posters to pazzle. I want to give them full credit. These are not made by me Uh, if they were I mean it would not be as creative and it just wouldn't have as good of a layout If there's ever any like editing where it looks a little bit funny Well, then that is because it was made by me But the original idea or like the original poster came from to pazzle And you know look at this beautiful poster. Hold on. I'm going to pull it in right now so I just love It just looks great. So this is our debate con for Uh religion debate day and that's on Okay, now. Oh gosh. No, it's cranked now. Okay. You can hear me now. That's so funny I was behind on the chat because I was trying to see where you guys Thank you for your your heads up Is I was trying to see I was looking back at your old cities, but yeah long story short now Oh gosh, there it goes. It does sound a little funny. Let me try this here. We know that's so Hopefully we don't have the echo uh, let's see. So basically what I want to tell you guys Basically for the last like five minutes I was reading through all the different locations So as an example I was saying, you know, like where if I saw someone was saying You know, like I'm from knobby cock, texas. I was saying like, oh, hey, so-and-so from knobby cock texas Thanks for tuning in like we're glad you're here and I was so I was basically saying everybody's name and where they're from So I want to say thank you guys for your support though. Let me put it in the second poster man What a rookie mistake. I you know what? I haven't had obs set up in so long. Usually it's so good that it's just like, but yeah, we're gonna we're already We're gonna make it so What do you guys think do you guys are you guys feeling optimistic about the economy? I'm gonna put the link to the opto show in. Oh, I'm tired.  Let me show you this manifold I'm pumped. I can show you this. Okay. Okay. So there are so many things in terms of like, uh What's the word I'm looking for? Okay You guys this is cool. Let me show you what is cool So one I'm gonna pull in did I put the after show in I think I forgot Man, it's been a long day. Okay. I have uh So I have to put the after show in for By the way, I'm like All right, umber. I like I'm putting an after show in for a guy.  Uh, whoever you are, we hope you're well. And so oh, I didn't put it. Oh gosh Man, it's like I'm on drugs, but I'm not so let me show you this an obs so manifold based as the kids say Oh, this is the intro screen. That's weird So I want to show you this because you might be thinking like I want to show you I want to call your attention to If you look Into the Description box what you will see Is a length For something called manifold so manifold is basically The fun like it's not real gambling. There's no real money. So some of you guys if you're really Chill out. It's not a big deal What this is is it's just a for fun manifold is a for fun prediction website where you're predicting And I highly encourage you modern day debate is being sponsored by manifold for debate con 4 in particular I'm gonna write this down on a post-it note to share all this stuff every night because there's just so much stuff If you go down into the description box It's like the fourth link where it says The charity watchdog known Yeah It's the one two three It's the third link in the description box. So go ahead into the description box is that You can go on and vote So all of the debates that will be at debate con who you think will be more persuasive So The way that it'll be determined is on the day of we're going to have the in-person audience Put up their hands another reason to go and be an in-person audience member at debate con is because you Can then vote with your in just putting slipping your hand up and yeah, it's easy So you can just sign up. It's cool that you can sign up through so many ways So it recognized that I'm logged in with modern day debate, but let's say I was like, well, I just want to sign up Let me see how I would do this Let me see how I sign up if it doesn't recognize. It's me but long story short. It's just play money You get assigned a certain amount of play money when you start on the website and then you can use it to Vote whatever way you want to and if you win like if you correctly predict things Then the cool thing is that you will then Let me try to do this. I'm going to see if I can sign in with like other google accounts That I can then like vote on Okay, so is If I make a bet I'm gonna actually see this, but yeah, I do want you guys to check this out You get mana. That's what it's called. That's the play money that they call it there. So Is that I highly encourage you you can go and it takes like two seconds to create An account like you know how you can sign in like automatically with a google account that you already have So you don't even have to like fill in the information, which is why it's awesome But these guys are doing a fantastic job Is that you don't have to go through the uh kind of the just like oh gosh Like we got to enter in all this all this information I wouldn't like that. So I like that manifold is Awesome and that you can just jump in using an old google account and voila so I'm tired. So yeah, it's not an actual gambling website It is just play money called mana So highly encourage you you guys check this out is a lot of fun And uh, you guys I think you get a kick out of it if you enjoy these types of things Then hey, what are you waiting for you can go vote. I'm gonna put up other debates as well So all of the political debates We'll have a vote where you'll be able to vote like who you thought was the most persuasive in all the political debates at debate con and Not only that but also I'm going to put up uh, yeah, yeah, so all the political ones and then this one for matt and andrew That debate is another one. So Thanks for your kind words the The keggy says congrats on 125 000 subscribers. Thank you seriously. I appreciate that and then Peggy says why not just do polls in youtube chat? That's a good question Uh, the reason is The in-person audience is static and what I mean by that it's like the same audience as the start of the debate And it's the same audience at the end. So in other words, it's like a control. There's a little bit more control Uh versus if I do a poll or like, you know people at the start of the live stream Because we're going to do a poll at the beginning in the end saying which side do you lean on at the start And then at the end and if people switched or like started leading one way more than the other That'll be how we determine it But that's something that we wouldn't be able to do in live chat because people are popping into the live chat You know like 25 or 50 of the way through the debate stuff like that. So See happy clams says if you consider dual streaming to kick, uh, I would except the only challenge is that Uh restream I haven't they don't offer it for kick. So I'm not I've got nothing against kick. Uh, I'd be happy to stream there, especially if it's free uh, and I if I You know, basically like the cool thing about this right now Is on modern day debate. Um, it's set up so that we're streaming the glitch right now too and That's without me having to do anything. I just you know, once I start streaming on obs You know, it just starts going and it just sends it to both youtube and twitch And I don't have to do anything. I just in restream. I had to make sure I had both of them selected. That's it So I want to say thank you guys for all of your support And uh, you guys it's a lot of fun. So thank you guys for all your support. You guys make this a blast We're excited about the future you guys we uh, we probably will hit 125,000 or 126 000 subscribers tomorrow So if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button as we are excited about the future We're five or no joke. We're five subscribers away from 126 000. So if you're one of the five right now You might actually see it when you refresh the page say 126 000 if you haven't already subscribed. So we appreciate that That's exciting though. We we have big goals for the future. We're excited about the future We're planning on being we're doing big things. So thank you guys. I love you guys. You guys make this fun Um, you guys have been just super supportive and I appreciate that And so we're excited that yeah, it's crazy that modern day debate has grown this much And we're excited about the future as we are going to keep on Pushing forward and improving things and figuring things out learning and making these better. So thanks guys. I love you guys Keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and we will see you guys next time We have a debate this friday. You don't want to miss it. We'll see you there It's whether or not the fossil record supports evolution You don't want to miss it folks. If you enjoyed this topic, I have a feeling you're going to enjoy that one as well So do be sure that you check it out. Whoo. Check it out You guys have you noticed that during like on screen? As people have been signing up for manifold and voting for the matt de la hunty versus andrew wilson debate uh It's been updating like on the actual like livestream video footage where now it says 84 chance. So it's been changing As people have been creating accounts. So that's really cool But yeah, we're so close. Let me see. Are we any closer to anybody? Let's see I want to say thank you guys for your support. I'm gonna I'm gonna get some rest. I'm pretty tired But I love you guys. Thanks for everything. Keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and we'll see