Boom. Oh wait, how's this work? There we go. How's it going guys? Welcome to the red man group episode 177 It's been about a month since I did a at-home kind of web broadcast version Those of you watch channel You probably saw a bunch of the live stream ones of previews anyway like 15 minutes that we did about two weeks ago live In Orlando, Florida Those will be on the channel later on in the weeks and months that come as we edit the full Multicam versions of those episodes in the meantime. I'm here today. So lucky you you get to hear from president dream I'm gonna be joined today by mr. Jeff younger basically speakers from the event the recent 21 summit the world Manispheres super duper summit.  So we're gonna talk about it. So I got Jeff younger here today I got Paul Caldwell from the war room Steve from the man mindset and Tony Bruno should be on in just a minute as well So without further ado, please let me welcome to today's stream Jeff younger Steve Williams Paul Caldwell There we go How you doing boys? Howdy Hey y'all from all three of you from Texas.  Yeah Well when the revolution happens, that's where it'll come from Paul your audio is a bit low I could try boosting it Little better. It's a lot better. Yeah Yeah, all right So first things first, I've talked to you guys a little bit, you know since the event here and there But I've been kind of like in hibernation Trying to just recuperate recover So I want to know, you know, what are your basic thoughts on the event that you just experienced? Paul you were new Jeff and Steve you had seen the events before so you kind of a different perspective Paul if you don't mind I'd like you to kickstart what you thought about the event Like I said in my my post man, it was it was a lot different than what I expected because I think mainly because of all the guys that have Come out to be Fraudulent there's been a in the past. There's been some clowns that speak and I've poked at a couple of them And I'd you know, I thought that there was gonna be some of that and it was different It was a lot different and if the speeches that I sat through I Had no point wanted to get up and go I mean that was that was that was one thing that was I watched a lot of these guys online And I didn't expect that I would want to sit and listen to him talk But one of the biggest things One of the biggest takeaways for me was being able to sit afterwards After the dinner was over after all the obligations were done we got to sit as in the back as men and That I haven't had that side my most of my guys that rooted my veterans program have moved they've moved they've found love found lives away from Texas and so That camaraderie that was there man was fucking it was it was palpable man There were so many different conversations going on that they were deep man everybody was talking about whatever they were passionate about and it was It was transformative man, I spent a lot of time with Steve Steve showed me a bunch of shit that I Didn't see for myself.    Yeah, we saw I sat next to him at dinner I thought he was just hungover or something. I did not have any idea.  Oh, no, no, it was just a little something like more than a little something dude We just we sat next to each other and I I'm struggling but going down there and seeing these dudes I wanted to play with them, but I barely had the energy to do what I what I was what I had to do But seeing these dudes all you know Steve is a vampire.    I'm watching him I'm like, why are you afraid to throw your hat in the ring?    Have you taken a look at yourself? You know what I mean?  So my biggest takeaway was these dudes These dudes need they need this and the summit for for whatever it's been in the past whatever Whatever negativity people can see Where it's going from my perspective, I don't endorse shit that I don't believe in From supplements.   I'm still stoke bro. It's two weeks later. I'm still on fire I love it. I love it paul There's a lot to unpack there. But before we get into any more with jeff and steve I want to pop on tony bruno to the strength Tony you got to hear a lot of that right here. I saw you in the back backstage I did absolutely Awesome stuff paul. What I got from you is that you got a lot of organic benefits from it even if it wasn't explicit Things that were important to you to tap and naturally just Just being there as a speaker.  Yeah I want to go to steve and jeff before we get to tony Steve you've seen the events for many years since 2019 Would you see this year that was any that was different or better? Uh, well, it's you always up in the they always up in things man You're just not you're just not complacent and you're you're pushing everybody to be better man Even the speakers, you know come right come correct and stuff like that and Uh, I think that that that rain said like what paul was saying, man People don't even understand and see the depth of the the passion love desire that you have not only for 21 studios But for everybody in there to get the information that they need you've broken it down You've helped women you're helping uh people that want to get married You're helping guys that want to learn how to be uh better men So it's just uh, it's it just gets better and better man It just because I mean you pick what I call right people for right moments and And even those that you picked before that became a wrong moment was the right moment at that time in my opinion So I you know, you're always making smart Very what we call tactical great moves to show these guys different types of individuals We all are different races ages, but we all speak one language and that's manhood. So it's it's just Yes, that actually reminds me what you're saying there You call it you call it a tactical but jeff younger when he introduced my he when he introduced me at The 21 convention from a state of the man's sphere jeff commented on two things about me my deep Uh passion for honor and I strive to to bring that To myself and then as aggressive as I can in culture and like restore it But also a fierce commitment to rationality And this is surprising to me. I had no idea jeff was going to say this stuff It was really cool to see especially on video when you can pay more attention to it and real life You know, you're standing outside on the stage. You guys are going through this You're like it's like a fight you're about to go into you're about to walk up on a stage and you got to fight for what you believe in Yes, but the but the rationality comment Um, it reminds me of what you said steve that In my view what I do with rationality is it's always a commitment to the best of what you know It's a commitment to act on The total sum of what you know the total sum of your knowledge to the best of your ability Yeah, and that means like you said, you're making the best decisions I can every year in that moment And then if I got a change course in the future, then that's what I got to do as well That's what men do change course. Yeah, we're never one way. We're a million or infinite amount of ways. So But I think people confuse rationality with like perfectionism, which is a stupid It's always making the best decision you can on the total facts of what you know Yes, and this is this is what I even have with uh, the respect I have for religious people Uh christians and like what what not like jeff You believe that the bible is a source of knowledge and therefore you need to act on it So this to me is rational even if I just that's a much wider discussion But that's one of the reasons I respect people who hold deep religious convictions is because you're acting on what you know What you believe is true Uh, that I just agree with there's something that's not really relevant, uh to my view of rationality So anyway, I'll shut up. But jeff. I'd love to hear your comments. Um, a lot of interesting comment because, um And I'm just wrapping my head around it right now. You know what what you're saying Capture is something I've never really been able to put into words. Well Um, there's a method of living there's a way of living Which is what is respectable The starting points of your thinking might be different. Everybody has different historical exigencies. They come from different places but the method By which they interpret and and rashly understand the world and acting the world That method is recognizable if you could if you went to japan You could recognize A man a masculine man in japan because he would have that same method of dealing with the world From like totally different cultural positions And you would instinctively know That this is somebody you can deal with and you could deal with in an honorable way because he walks the way you walk Even though it may be on a different road, right? Yeah, one of the things, um That I noticed at at the convention this time I think it started initially more about social things really more about individual social things It expanded to wider society and issues around boys and men I think in the last two sessions, uh, it's really started looking at now How do we we we understand our place in society and we understand what we have to do Now how do we start exerting power? Yeah to make that happen. I call that political. It's not really political. It's more more than that, but um Exerting power in the world and I predict anthony that the next two sessions will take us into the economic world It's for us to talk about how we're going to not only exert power but build a world and institutions That can stabilize and and create the world we want for future generations not just us Yeah, and that's what I think the 21th convention is so important. It's it provides it's an institution that while I live all of us That young men will take forward And take this wisdom forward and if I had to explain it to people who've never been We may have people watching who've never been to 21 convention You know the first time I went, uh, I said well, this is this is for Men of action men who want to become men of action And then when I attended I realized no This is for thinking men of action rational men of action And now after my last attendance, I'm even taking it further and I'm saying no, it's thinking men of action informed by wisdom And that's the depth that I think uh, paul was talking about there's there is an intellectual depth But it's not superficial men act on it Yeah, and the best time I had though was out there throwing throwing some punches out there with paul Paul was out there just knocking out burpees doing some kickboxing showing some tricks And we were just all out there having fun uh before dinner I mean, we just went out boxing just spontaneously people wanted to go out box So it's really truly a thinking a place where thinking men of action come to be men among men Yeah, I appreciate that jeff and I was it brings me to a follow-up question But I uh that I'd planned but I think you've already covered it, but I'll bring it up anyway You're I think the one criticism you had of your experience last year in 2021 As you said you wish there was more action or you wish there was more Pushes to action might be the way you described it So did you see that change or did you see that improved from 2021 to 2022? Definitely, um all this and all the speakers Um, I mean honestly the the you know with paul steve 100 is about action Like the whole their whole talks were about go do something Michael foster gave an interesting presentation Where he just talked about his family and the struggles he had with his family You know, and it was an implicit call To you know go out and have a family and create the army of the future Yeah, you know, uh, and he was showing how to do it I really think the whole focus changed and I think uh, I think the future is bright because of that Hey woman, hey woman It's an act and one more thing jeff on your earlier comments when you first started speaking on the monologue I think a lot of what you were describing is what steve just Described himself as the language of manhood. I think that's what steve said And across cultures and across the whole summit the the convention that we do And it's that I think it's fundamentally what the attendees and the speakers bring to the table It's what we attract and it's what I want at the events and then it repels people who are who are not uh sufficiently committed to that right Yeah, uh, because there's there's thresholds to this right how much action do you want to take and jeff you're like at 1010 And i'm like a woman. Let's fucking do that Because it english is somewhat of a you know, I really buy into von humboldt's thesis that language reflects cultural commitments So you you look at english, you know, and it uh, we say things like well by the time you get there I will have been there for 10 hours People in other languages don't say things like that They just use simple past present and future you know if you if you talk to spanish speakers japanese speakers It english has a very specific orientation towards time Right and that reflects some past cultural commitment and into people as they were developing the language But you know one of the things that we have a problem with I think in english is there's no good way to describe processes It's a very noun-centric way of thinking You know in japanese adjectives are verbs. We can't do that in english everything's thought of as verbs So we don't have a way of talking about ways of doing things very well It's hard for us to talk about those things and I think a lot of the challenge we face in communicating the way of men Um is that our language in some sense isn't really made for it very well So it's best done by example, and I think steven paul Just were great examples for us at the convention Hell yeah Tony let's go to you You've seen the convention since 2018. You've seen many examples of it What have you seen this year and how do you think it's changed since you first saw it? Or the evolution basically year to year I think it's the quality of men that every year gets better and better Guys really just wanting to do something in their life and that's why they're there um I also think that it's I don't want to say there was somewhat of an echo chamber because I think when you have a lot of the same speakers speaking about the same things It becomes an echo chamber And it's definitely not an echo chamber anymore. That's for sure not that it was before but I think that The diversity of guys speaking on different topics was real real important and I know that you Like to have different speakers talk about different things and I think that's really important And one thing I do want to give a shout out to is the volunteers that showed up this year It seems like every year the volume, you know, we have our regular volunteers like myself but the Just the quality of the volunteers this year and how smooth the whole system ran that was pretty much flawless Unlike I've seen before, you know, there's always some there's always some blips here and there in the in the production But it was as smooth as you could go. I mean it just you know big shout out Yeah, big shout out to the volunteers this year. There was no, uh, I mean everything just went so smooth. There was no, uh There wasn't any interruptions in the in the force field.  You're a part of it You have more interaction with the speakers and attendees and you would has just an attendee So anybody looking to volunteer next year and then go for it. It's quite an experience Yeah, I was really happy the volunteers this year. I mean the staff the volunteers Tony's Tony's kind of this hybrid between staff and volunteers because he's so central To corralling the speakers and moving you guys where you need to be Uh, we call you speaker liaison. This is official title But I was very happy with it all. I mean it I just call him a friend. He's a good man Yeah, yeah So but yeah, the the volunteers has killed it and that might be in part because we've done the same venue for three years in a row And I might change that next year. We'll see every year I kind of look at that but that I think helped the volunteers because they'd been there for a couple years in a row in some cases And it was just like they knew exactly where everything was exactly where they needed to be Exactly where they needed to go exactly what they needed to do And we helped instruct them with that, you know and everything I guess I have people that try to, you know Shed on what I do and hate me and this and that not just feminists either but people even in the man's fair But I think the reality is I've done it for so I've grinded for 16 years This is a 16 year anniversary of 20 of studio's events And that just has slowly, you know, I didn't you know, even three four or five years in I didn't really understand That I was getting incrementally better just through A blunt brutal, you know brute force one after another when each event, you know Each event riding on the success of the past events and I think finally I'm starting to see the fruits of that More and more every year even running three events at one time That was very intimidating when we started that in 2020 because of covid And now I can just even with the volunteers and the staff and the speakers and like It's just uh, it's amazing to see it grow like that over the years And you guys didn't flow between the events some of you like Jeff spoke at all three someone like Steve spoke at two Yeah, and everybody's just going where they need to go and it's just it's beautiful to see it And I'm really proud of it and it's it's fucking hard and I think that's why people hate it because they These bums who want to like leech off of it? They can't because it just takes 15 or 16 years of hard work To figure it out or you'd have to hire someone from outside the man's fair industry And pay them like $50,000 to put something like this together for you, which there is not going to do So it's it's like this It's like this obstacle that they can't overcome and they don't want to acknowledge it And so they just want to like bitch about it. That's a paul was referring to I think In part earlier in the show It just takes whatever your craft is, you know, whatever your career is in life It takes when you do it for decades You just get better and better at it and then people get you know pissy about it because they want to steal that Or they want to they want to cheat they want to have a shortcut, you know One thing I'll say is true about 21 is when you meet somebody in person like paul You see a lot of these streams with these, uh, I'll call them the larping avatars And when you meet somebody in person like You have no choice, but their mask is gone in person So like somebody like paul, especially man, he is Who he says he is and he's nothing else He he absolutely is genuine and that's the difference of meeting somebody like that Um, you know, there was there was there's so much LARPing going on in these spaces that um, you know, now I know why that a lot of these guys don't show their faces And uh, because the larping is just incredible but you know When you're not at an event like this There is no mask. You can't hide. You can't hide. You can't do it Yeah It would be cool that these guys who had so much to say They're probably too broke to show up to the event, but They would show up.   I won't say anything that I won't say twice I say it If I say it over here, I'm going to say it when I see you But some of these dudes that have something to say, but that's that's the community though That's the the biggest population of the males in this in this In the america for sure are pussies And you don't want to listen to someone tell you you're a pussy.  It's easier to go.  And it's it's really crazy that there's so many people like there's the guys that are focused on All of the negative That's that's there's more of them than there are us We are outnumbered big time because it's easier for these guys to go the male feminist route And say the same good things that the women say like the dj academics thing on fresh and fit last week or so That is more poet poetry about what the manisphere is Bulldog had it right and one thing It is full of bitches This space bullfrog bullfrog. Yeah bull bullfrog had it.  You know what I mean? Like please please do that So this is one thing I think that 21 summit is my intention with it And I think it slowly does that over time. I'm trying to push the manisphere and the men in it in this direction of masculinity Uh when I declared in 2019 the presidency thing actually declared a crisis of masculinity in the manisphere And people assumed maybe that was a joke or tongue-in-cheek, but I wasn't kidding And that's been an ongoing crisis so to speak for a long time So the event though is like the cream of the crop. It's the best guys in the space Who actually take the time and the effort and the investment to show up in real life Whereas as you've seen it's just like this super awesome super fun super educational experience That motivates guys through the roof Almost every guy I talked to you that comes back He comes back because he lost 30 or 40 pounds and kept it off now One guy I talked to said he And this is this was strange to me because we don't really have a lot of talks about career and like money Maybe we should but we just don't he said that he came in 2019 And he came back this year because he tripled the amount of money he makes he tripled his income Every year since And I'm like, oh my name number one fucking. That's awesome. Good for you, man Number two I'm like that's just crazy to me because that there was not even a speech really that addressed that issue It wasn't like like losing weight.  One guy a couple guys want to buy lifetime tickets now or they just get a life like a golden ticket And they just come forever.  Yeah, man Another thing I noticed too was it seemed like this year, especially there was a lot of guys that do combat sports a lot And a lot of talk was was about combat sports talking with jeff about boxing and judo Talking with paul and I thought that was really cool because I think that is a big part of masculinity. He's knowing how to fight knowing how to protect yourself And uh, just the amount of guys that were into combat sports this year was probably a lot more than it's been in the past years So I thought that was let's historically been the path to learning how to be a man You know, you read you all the back to ancient babeloneans wrestling boxing You know even even for men who were less physically capable being archers You know engaging and those kinds of things which was which back then was the you know, what we would call today shooting sports You know, I mean this was the this was the way forward Uh, by the way before I forget paul today at 4 p.m. In flower mound. I'm doing a first class in combat blade work And I didn't have your email. So I want to invite you to it. So shoot me a text when we're done I've got some guys from the secret service come in. I got some some people coming. So you'll be very welcome All right There was something interesting that um that you guys mentioned which uh, and I love to hear this You know, uh, it's been 16 years. You've learned by doing this. You've gotten better What it shows is that there's no secret knowledge. You're not going to get some secret knowledge And then figure out how to be super successful What what it really is about is having the courage to just go try and do it And you'll learn when you start doing it, right? And that that requires a certain humility.     They're all humble They only show their power by actions their words don't show their power Right. In fact, their words are always going to underplay their power because they like to get the sneak jump on Right So there's always a certain understatement to real masculinity and an underlying power that is visible In people and it's because men learn by doing things. They don't sit around and wonder How do I get perfect knowledge before I go try it? I have my idea. I'm going to go try and I'm going to learn while I'm doing it That's true of writing, you know, author kwan lee talks about this When he talks about art, you know, you don't you don't like read books and then learn how to do art And then you start becoming a painter. You know what you do to become a painter.  You have your own style You have your own style of boxing. You have your own style of doing business Anthony has I believe a very unique style of management when he's at the conference he's a man who is able to Generate the willing obedience of people around him You know, so he doesn't have to be super directive things are taking care of before their problems ever even occur Then he's these are things that are really indicative of men of mastery And I think just to be around people like that for four days is worth the price of a mystery Yeah, I love it being around the convention every year is It's so it's a super intense period of time for me for A thousand different reasons The work the 16 years of history or whatever it happens to be that year The camaraderie of it the emotional impact the emotional intensity Uh, the professionalism required of me to do what you're saying to direct people in these different ways, but also be hands off Uh, get the compliance I need to get the work done on time and in the best way possible to get everything right And then if there's something slips through to fix it as quickly as possible, you know, whatever the case is See, it's uh Is this a huge whirlwind of stuff for me? It's why it takes me like weeks to recover even last night I was tired like 10 p.m. Which is crazy for me Like I'm used to being up to like one two in the morning a lot of time not that that's a good idea But I was like I felt like an old man.  And I didn't do anything I worked out on uh, was it thursday? So I didn't even yesterday wasn't even anything physically stressful.     You're gonna do what you're gonna do. You're gonna have an interesting and exciting life And all these bitches are gonna want to be in it Yeah, men put weight men put the emphasis the opposite way. They thought they wanted secret knowledge To figure out how to get a date or something get a girl to sleep with them Yeah, well, the best thing to do man is to be a badass in life and then the women just come to you Yeah, it's it's really interesting. You bring this up Jeff because there's an old term and it's not You might know more about it. It's called uh gnosisism I think it was used in christianity for some reasons. It's one of the earliest heresies. Yeah But I've heard it used in a different way And it was they were giving credit to the to the christian history of this term But it basically had to do with the with secret knowledge is how they were using it anyway Right and how and how misguided this was and like and unfortunately in the manosphere. This is a huge problem It's a huge problem And maybe steve has some thoughts on it But these dudes looking for that they really have been for for decades looking for that magic That magic pill and that secret knowledge and it makes them feel powerful when they get it But it's an illusion of power like they don't really have it My whole presentation was against this that was my whole presentation. Yeah steve, which guy? Yeah, no, I was uh, it seems like uh, I talked about the fish and the fish tank a lot of even the fish and the fish tank thinks it's uh It's free But it's confined by the fish tank and uh, unfortunately what a lot of these guys mindsets are is that they They think they're actually free They they think they're actually doing things when they're doing really nothing They're being confined by how they see the world and how they see people seeing them and things like that Wow, that's true Yeah, so I I was that's why I always tell and what we teach all of us In the analogy I was telling the guys is that we teach them to be the one holding the fish tank Versus being the fish in the tank So, you know, it's just so many layers of game that people have to learn about but You know, like I say before like Paul was saying even in the room I mean people just don't want to they don't want to learn so they don't want anyone else to grow They don't want any of us to learn, you know, but at the end of the day everybody can't be a winner I mean, there's got to be guys in the loser table.    Rubby is notoriously low scoring, right? It was very high scoring. They got their ass whipped They you know, they scored zero points um And but you know after it was done Nobody has any right to criticize them Watching watching the game if you weren't on the field There's no right to criticize those people on the field man, right? So all those guys I bought all those guys beers, right? They got on they got down there and they fought one of the best rugby teams in this area and got their ass kicked and held And they they held in there. They fought to the bitter bitter bitter end, right? There's respect even for men who lose If they fight honorably if they're attempting on, you know to achieve something honorable by worthy means Right. It's the sons of bitches that aren't trying to do anything that seem to do all the criticism Yep, and that's what came along with this participation profi stuff that we don't talk about, right? Yeah, the the we're not given the glory and honor to the winner But we're also enabling spectators just mere spectators to think that there's some some big shits and can talk shit about people when they never even got on the field Yeah We lost like you don't play for the cowboys. You don't play for the cowboys. What are you talking about? We never even played football in high school. We talked about my team because you bought some of the Fucking Texans, man Yeah, just a quick just a quick side note on this When I was a kid one of the first I think the first participation trophy I ever saw was in the year 2000 and it was for my first year playing football seventh grade We went 0 and 10.  We ended up We went 10 and 0 in my high school year two years later. So that was You know flawless, but the first year is pop Warner.  It was terrible, right? It was so bad Yeah, so what was funny is we still got a trophy and this is when they started doling these out the year 2000 And we were holding these trophies like this is even when we were kids really this is stupid We don't really want this but yes, we're gonna take it because our parents will get mad at us or something But one of the kids actually thought it said Had the year on it two zero and then zero zero on the right And this kid actually thought he's like, hey, it's our record on it And we're like we're like no man. That's just the year dude.   I cried man. It was so heartbreaking to lose Uh, I mean that was you know, it was very young, but it was a lot of kids did because it was so brutal Uh, we fought so hard.  Yeah, it's just like your whole world You know went in this game or losing it and it's completely lost after that everybody stopped But the first time was pretty rough. Yeah, but you got better. You got better Yeah, we did we did you know one thing I do want to bring up is Every year I kind of think of a breakout speaker and I've got a couple of them this year One is definitely paul caldwell for sure And I don't get a chance to watch many speeches, of course And paul was intense A little nervous at first But But uh, yeah, as far as like breakout speakers, I want to give paul a big shout out Um, I also want to give zan parry on a big shout out because I think I wasn't I looked at a little bit of his content before and I think zan This is what I do when I when I do get a chance to Um go into a speech I look at the reaction of the attendees And you could see if they're looking down or they're writing Or they're just so focused when a speaker is up there and to me the reaction of the attendees is really really important I know when steve is on stage guys are just laser focused on what he's saying He can relate to people but uh same thing with paul and everybody else, you know, i'm not downplaying anybody else's speech But um, there was also another breakout. I would call would be michael fosner and brian suave's church We had to actually if you remember we had to I think uh postponed Or set back the first speeches because like most of the guys were in church Which was wild but I consider that a breakout too. I mean it shows you what guys, you know They didn't have to get up early on a sunday morning, but they did To go see these guys speak and and I say it was a different kind of church It was definitely uh, I wouldn't say it was probably Typical michael fosner. Maybe not. I could be wrong where he but this this church was devoted to men And masculinity and I think it was uh guys were really digging it. But yeah breakout speakers and Um attendees reactions is what I look for so Yeah, I'm looking for it and fosters speech that that was notable to me um Both of them were deep reflections on mistakes they had made And how they learned from that mistake And were able to generate something from it And that's something you don't often hear in this space is people admitting mistakes And that's part of that humility. I was talking about right here's what here's what went wrong Here's what I did about it. Here's why that didn't work. Here's why that didn't work. Here's why that didn't work Finally this worked Right just exemplifying the relentless character of masculinity, right? Those two are very interesting particularly zan who was basically saying that we made a mistake for 20 years when I was doing this stuff. I made a 20 year mistake and um I came around to a different point of view and that was really remarkable What an amazing speech that was that was zan's speech at the blue room patriarch. Yeah, yeah Yeah And you can tell also like when when a um when a speaker gets out of his speech and then Guys are basically surrounding him and asking questions That's a that's a good tell-tale sign that he's he's really reached somebody when he was talking You know, so that's another thing that I know is doing what I do Yeah, I had so much fun at the event two guys just running around for me It's a it's a huge challenge Like there's elements of more I don't know.   He's very very good at tai otoshi. He's that's his throw He can knock you down Let's welcome to the stream pastor michael foster a woman brother. Welcome to the show Hey guys How's it going? Thought I'd hop on real quick before I get to work on the on the woods clearing out some brush Yeah, man, did you get to watch any of the show or you just popped in a second ago? Uh, I was watching the last Four minutes Okay Yeah, then so while you're on here, what are your uh, what's your thoughts on the event? You've seen it evolve since 2020 so you've got to see the triple 21 summit evolve Over a couple years now. What were your thoughts and what did you see change? um Well, it's uh, it's definitely matured. I guess You guys probably said that just the level of quality and speaker, you know, it's not these um It's just guys that actually are doing things building things. I like that. Uh, it's much more mature in the content I heard you guys talking about xan um And uh, yeah, you get an older wiser guys that are in the fight guys like jeff um Steve you've been around a bit and so just everyone thinks that It's the same Like how to how to get laid sort of talk I don't I don't think I heard any of that. I I heard how to how to take a stand for For uh for your fellow man how to how to defend your children How to get your life back on on the rails when when you've been derailed by things So overall just was a really um Good mature experiences to me as a christian. Um It was uh, what was really crazy was just Uh, the amount of morality that is in line with scripture being promoted for different reasons not not because everyone's a christian But uh, there's folks just saying like yeah, you don't want to have sex outside of marriage Um, you get stuck with a kid. That's not yours. Uh, you know, not be sure if if you're um If it's your kid or not and just a lot of wisdom. Is this good? It was good as always. There's no drama I said last year was really chill. You remember thinking that this year somehow was even chiller so And it was a good time good to have new guys there bringing in some fresh thoughts materials contributions and panels were pretty fantastic this year especially and um You know elliott kept taking shots at me for being biblical. Um, and I I would I returned a favor and uh And then jeff tried to take us down some crazy deep philosophical road and we all said No, you're not doing that. Hey jeff We don't think i'm not worrying about jeff's hands, right? His hands speed doesn't scare me It's like when he starts going down some of that stuff.  I actually I thought this was probably going to be my last year for a little bit um, i'm just so busy right now like um with starting churches like i'm working on my third church in two years already so um And uh and hope to get about 20 done in the next five to 10 years But um, it was that conversation Sitting there with those guys that I called my wife up And I said, you know Where else can I go have these conversations with these men? Right, where else can I have influence with influencers? uh, you know A lot of young men look up to paul and paul paul has some salt in his background, right? He's he's seen some rough things and um when you've actually walked a rough road. It's pretty easy to spot fakes So it's it's not surprising to me that paul's has been savage with all the frauds out there but um But a lot of the things he has to say to young men is here's how to avoid some of the stuff I did Here's how to be tough and actually get things done um So these young men are listening to paul and And I don't know paul you you got a gum road class A gum road class see that answer is a question right there paul's out there just giving away wisdom just like This why I was telling a friend of mine that the monastery is not going away as long as there's young men that need help And older men that want to offer it And obviously there's a lot of parasites out there But sitting there listening to paul talk and ean ean being very um transparent about mistakes in his own life and uh Yeah, that was something I was surprised at and I don't respect him way more It did yeah like are you just a big meathead or what? Yeah, that's why I was sitting back and listening that one evening and just just kind of enjoying what you guys were talking about And i'm thinking you know, I told other guys that where can you get this you can't get it anywhere Where can you hear these guys personal experiences? Maybe some things they wouldn't even talk about online? Yes, but that was really cool It was good. That's what I live for. I love those conversations Tony michael was saying or no, excuse me michael Tony was saying a few minutes ago. I don't know if you heard it But he was very impressed with the the church service that you and brian did on sunday morning I don't know if you heard those comments, but how did that go a little bit? Yeah, so what brian decided to do was tag team it And say look, this is why you should be in a church and this is some of the things that should be happening in the church What people don't understand is folks at the manager at these conferences at 21 the 21 summit they're They're open. They're considering to think about things. They're here to weigh ideas again So like I always thought everyone that 21 is a forum Right as we put a lot of people on stage talking about a lot of different things The only thing that's shared amongst all of us that's required Is that we're four positive masculine? And and we are against the feminist spirit of our age, right? We're against Like we're everything we teach has that in mind But beyond that it can be it can be a pretty uh, I don't want to misfit toys, right? You can go a lot different directions Um, yeah, but uh, so what we wanted to do is tell these guys like here's how we did it so I got up I did half and then uh And then Brian did the other half and then we sang amazing grace together because we figured people would know that and most of them did and it was um It was it was kind of beautiful It was like to sit down with these folks and you know, I I didn't know a good presbyterian church to go But I thought you know, I'm willing to To do a kind of workshop here to walk them through what should be in a liturgy and worship service And and try to I got five people. I'm trying to help find a church that came That came there trying to help them connect and um I heard this thing through through the walls. So yeah, I was like, oh, that's interesting. That's new this year I don't remember this thing in last year. Well, brian brian is a talented worship leader I'm not scared to sing acapella, but it's not my strong suit, you know um, but brian brian did a good job and it was good to have so they their surveys. Um, he's so, um He's really quick with it, right? He's very quick with his thoughts and His ability to interact on panels. I think he really pushed a lot of people's buttons in a good way got got the juices Stirring I thought this year's religion panel was superior to last year's and I thought last year's was pretty good but um But yeah, the overall it's just a another conference Uh, you know, I I I catch a lot of grief for for this conference. Um and And so I at times I do ask myself, uh, is all the grief worth it and and so my my contrary nature Wants to do it just because other people are telling me I can't You know, like I want to do it just to to to frustrate them, you know, um but There is a bell curve of diminishing returns But again, it's just Good people interacting. I feel like we're we're seeing things go A direction. It was interesting watching the politico guy Try to figure out what this was Yeah, right. I had lots of conversations with them.  He's like what times but at other times no and Um, I always tell like my friend like brian who came and I was like, would you think he's like, it's amazing, right? He was amazed by the the conversations and the freedom and all that Um, so I think there's just an idea of what it is because people want to inform snap judgments that they really It's such a zero-sum game in people's heads They think if you're four men you have to be against women Right as if there's a zero-sum game with and that's that's not what's going on at all I thought 22 was good There's always that one woman that come god bless her That walks up to ask a question and it's not a question And she just goes on for a while She becomes a speaker She does and last year I said you're you're allowed to walk to that mic if you have a real question I was nice this year though Yeah Anyway, I love that man I love having you my goal at the events is now I have a lot of goals of the events and missions And I try to outline these but on a basic functional level I'm trying to build the best event in the world four men four fathers and four women And then bring that all together into one summit That's that's to me the explicit like, you know basic functional goal of what I'm doing And so I appreciate you coming out to the events and that's what I'm trying to do And I want to make the event so good that you don't ever want to leave like I love it It's amazing Anthony is kind of an asshole, but I love it That's what Paul said on this thing. It was hilarious. We can pull it up actually I should have read this earlier Here it is After meeting this dude 21 convention and Anthony Johnson is from Paul Caldwell on his channel about a week and a half ago 21 convention and Anthony Johnson After meeting this dude in person I proudly stand beside him in this fight against the vaginal cowards and losers Who insist on taking advantage of men and boys and constantly spend time preaching in cell gospel Anthony Johnson might be an asshole, but he's a good man who truly cares about the state of masculinity in the Sometimes the world doesn't need a hero. It needs a monster Adj is that monster to frauds and cowards and I gladly stand with them in this fight He goes on endorsing the event talking about it But I appreciate that paul And it just kind of reminds me of some of the stuff michael's bringing up here too I love it Well guys, I just want to hop on and say thanks for having me again And Really grown to to appreciate all you men and I do think it's true.   No, I know you're gonna start preaching your objectivism fine fine. Uh, but Yeah, anyway, uh, all right brothers good talking to you and Thanks for hopping on michael. Yep, boxon Love that guy. I really like him. He's just a really good guy Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting all your guys speeches done. I think this year they all came out Like you guys are saying more professional even more mature Just more powerful though is that that's what i'm getting when I saw jeff speeches that Number one, I don't see all the speeches. It's not even possible But I try to I always try to make sure I have an eyeball literally on each speech At least for like one or two minutes. That's why you see me hopping around I'm checking to make sure everything's going smooth and then I'm also checking the content I want to get a visual memory of what what was being said when you looked like on stage And jeff's in particular I think because you suited up and then you doubled down on the content the intensity of it Yes, I think it's gonna come out really really good and even last year's content Is you know did zillions of views on youtube? So I'm like I'm gonna I'm like and I'm gonna edit this shit and we're gonna get 10 million fucking views on this And it's gonna make everyone really upset like michael's talking about I was just gonna say that people they look at the content They look at the event never mind the content later But they have an agenda and a bias and michael called like a zero some Kind of view of it, which is stupid But when you actually go to it all that goes away There's there's no room for that and I think it's what he referred to with the reporter as well the political guy That guy was a real reporter who came in with kind of a I guess his own agenda obviously to do an article whatever way it's gonna go But also preconceived notion of what the event was And then a lot of it had nothing to do with that And he's just like He's his his brain was kind of scrambled by that kind of fried trying to figure it out I heard I heard he was he was like breaking pens writing down notes during my speech because of the shot I was saying It definitely was Which is hilarious Yeah I mean some of the topics that we're approaching now are more difficult in some sense We've exhausted sort of the simple obvious stuff and we're working on the hard problems now And that's something I think we'll see in future sessions That we'll start focusing on on really hard issues that we've kind of avoided just because they're so difficult, you know One of them is what I tried to focus on was well, how do you If you think of this as an ideological conflict, right between sort of these these gay feminist forces in the west Um, how do you map that out? How do you map that battlefield out? And how would you know how to deploy your forces on the battlefield? And how what is the model for that that will work? Um, and I'm I'm struggling through that next year. Hopefully I'll have more detail on that and some more things that we could talk about But everybody's working on much harder problems, too Then have the past so I think there's a kind of a Uh a discursive quality to the event where people the speakers themselves are learning From the event. I know that's true for me Yeah, you know what what we're doing too now is it seems it seems that Men are trying to stop a ball from rolling that we should have stopped a long time ago Yes, you know, and that's the that's the problem because You know, I I've got I've got dudes and it's kind of funny I I almost made a video because after I posted the post about anthony I had a couple of dudes come in on the comments there and one of these dudes actually spent his own money To do a criminal background check on me and try to You know castigate who I am as a man Over some shit.   That's bad. Don't do it before marriage and they got easy and we took advantage of it We dogged girls out. We lied to them. We told them. We liked them. We told them We loved them. We ghosted and we did all that stuff And then it created single moms. It created a bunch of stuff and now we're dealing with these kids now We're old men now me and I mean, we're all we're old and tony. We're all old now So I got grandkids now. And so i'm looking at this. I'll go okay. I I screwed I screwed my stuff up I know for a fact I did and so what we're dealing with is we've got a participation trophy generations We've got the social media generations. We've got Generation after generation of acts really after gen x They've started getting vaginal more and more vaginal. So We are at critical mass now and we we've got to figure out how to deploy the troops We've got to figure out how to build the troops and that's part of what what fired me up with elliot You know, we were talking about doing a camp on my property, but when I got back I'm like, you know what I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do it for fathers and sons Because a lot of fathers didn't have a crucible to go through so they're vaginal and they don't even know it They're they're moving and they made their sons weak And so what we're gonna do is we're gonna try to get the fathers and the sons and put them through hell To where the dad gets a baptism as well as the kid and it's that's still Trying to take a a chink out of a redwood tree We are in we are in critical mass and we're trying to stop this ball from crushing our society And there's not a whole lot of dudes with their hands up and that's why this this is so critical all the pickup game and trying to get laid That's not what we need to be doing we need that we need men and boys To harden up back back in the I'm not even saying biblical just have some morals just have some some Some personal guidelines That we didn't have I mean, I know I didn't have it It took me until my forties to realize how wrong my twenties were And now we're trying to tell these young dudes where all the music and all the society's saying Be as disgusting as you want to do, you know, we got the whack We've got all this stuff and now we're trying to tell dudes put your dick back up It's not a good thing.  Cardi B said And it's it's messed up and we're trying to stop this. We're trying to stop A ball of passion a ball of lustful passion. We're trying to stop that and that is Man, I think that's a hell of a fight. You know what I mean? I think I think that is a it's equivalent to Sodom and Gomorrah when you look at what we're doing to our children What we're like what what we're doing with with women with men train all of that stuff We are in a crazy spot and now men us.  One of the things that Steve said is it took me a while to understand this and it's about masculinity Tribes and groups are good, but Steve always says stand and stand on your own square And I really really like how he says that. I don't know Steve if you can kind of explain what that means But it took me a while to like all right Steve stands on his own two feet and his own ten toes like I do Doesn't need anybody to back him up and I think that's an important part of masculinity No, I think tribes are I think tribes are good, but I want people to become their own tribe first You know, you've got to be your tribe or yourself But like paul was saying a lot of these kids don't have any kind of a father figure and Um, you know all the stuff you're saying is awesome But the problem what you're gonna have with a lot of kids is that they still I mean, okay they don't get a thrust of manhood, which is great, but Because they're around paul, which is a man They're gonna get that from paul not their father.  Who wants that smoke? I mean like it Most most dudes most dudes would have said man. We're in public. Well, you know such and such and he would the chances In his chances are relatively high. He could have got away with that I say probably not but chances are relatively high.  That's why didn't he show up to the event? You know what I mean?      Okay So you just come to texas.  Come on out here.   We can bring them in They can watch it. We can film it. It'll be an excellent.   Well, that'll be it You know what I mean? Like it's it's really that simple But you know what he'll do is he'll thump on his chest on his little bill It's you know, but also what on the on the stand on your square What that also means in the same in the same tone Means stay in your lane You stand on your square.    I don't know you Right But I go to california because california is not a consent state motherfucker.  I never asked anyone to stand and fight for me I never kind of like steve saying I stand on my own two feet And I told you on that in private, you know over text when we weren't still talking at that point This is like august or something back then.    There's a lot of that in this red pill space that like all the rolo's little homos are supposed to hate all the anthony's people You know and into me I'm I stay on the side of truth You know what I mean? Like if if that dude would have never said anything about all of us speakers That's the tournament in that space like I don't even I don't even know and I didn't even really know that guy Yeah, I don't I've never even been in this channel like I mean no offense to him or anything I mean, maybe he's doing this.    So I mean, you know, it's not a consent state, but um, you know If we call it a sporting event, it's legal But it brings to mind for me the whole year Nobody gets caught. Nobody gets caught. You know what I mean? Like nobody would have to call the police parking lot out back Well, like like I had said, I think I mentioned that to you jeff is that you know, he had threatened people I want to I want to meet you in the ring and anybody knows anything about combat sports two guys that can't fight Looks like two girls slap fight So that's pretty much what it would have been.   I think i'm characterizing his opinion, right He looked it's not what he does, but he appreciates the combativeness that I do with a lot of these frauds and shit And he called me it was amusing. I was dying laughing.  I love seeing you guys in person, man I wish you guys all lived in florida instead of texas man. No offense de texans. Tony gets it I do hot man Florida to orlando is like where where steve lives. I can only tolerate houston for a weekend, man Up here in my this is rough my nice shit houston's hard, man Before we close out today show two I wanted to show a Here it is So there is a big political article coming out and we should maybe talk about that because that's going to be Politico as I understand it is so big that it's going to get it's part of like the associated press pool Which I studied a lot about when I when we went viral in the news in 2020 And there's basically a level of media like the new york times and new york posts and all this shit That gets tracked by like every other paper in the country And when you hit something that big it tends to spiral or it snowballs into other papers It can because then everyone is prints off the fucking article and then they read it on podcasts and it gets cited and other stuff It's interesting how that that network of media fake news or whatever Fake news or not how it operates But before the political article comes out We do have two articles from the epic times and I was happy to have him at the event It was a woman who was interested in jeff. She had interviewed him before the event And then she I guess through that or something. She found our events and asked for press pass I love the epic times. I've had I have zero problem with these people So this is one of them that came out, which I thought was really funny They highlighted jennifer muleski at the 22 convention, which was interesting Anti-feminist woman's conference wants to make woman great again Being more feminine will help ladies get wiped up and knocked up according to website Then it just kind of goes into it, but it's very positive and Well, yeah, because women's that's all women want to be wiped up and knocked up. That's what they all want Pretty pretty much. I think that that's sincerely at least 90 percent of women. That's what they want. Yeah, they just don't want to admit it Yeah, then uh, so it's really it's just for me as the founder It was nice to have a positive media report for once.  Did you have any thoughts on the epic times? Yeah, I got to read it And they did uh, I was on the cover of epic times Just after this. Yep I'll pull it up actually right now. Okay. Yeah the the The the epic times is dedicated to fighting the culture war And they uh, they're many of their journalists are completely on board with the idea that it's father absence That has caused almost 90 of the problems we see today Problems with children problems with the schools Problems with voting patterns Problems with demographic patterns in the big cities. Just about every problem is because men basically are absent And they also have an interesting take that they don't they don't blame men. They don't give this man up message What they're looking at are systemic incentives That are preventing men from doing that What kind of risks are men facing? What kind of problems they face in the legal system? And so forth and they're very oriented towards that So, I mean the 21 conference is really right in their sweet spot and they're also, um Implicitly christian not explicitly christian So being welcoming to christians even though the event isn't a christian event but being wealthy welcoming to christians is a big deal to them Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah to me. That's part of being american like I grew up in the 90s as you guys know as born 88 and to see christians get pushed out of public spaces And dialogue It's amazing and it's alarming uh for any number of reasons at bare minimum because it means people like me are next in line or there's a Or there's this catastrophic cultural decay That is going to spiral eventually into some sort of kinetic problem Economic collapse monetary collapse civil war. Who knows like there's a number of possibilities and none of them are good So I do take pride in And sincerely providing an open platform for different ideas And I think that's part of what shocks people when they go to like these reporters like they don't They don't really expect that and even if they're told like brian savay the pastor michael was talking about the speaker He was told what the event was like from michael and I think he trusted michael sincerely But I don't think he really believed it until he saw it. He might speak for himself on this But it's like when you finally see 21 summit and I welcome you to the stage, you know, usually anyway And all that and then you just say whatever you want and no one's trying to control you There's no demands to not to not say this or that i'm not like, you know twisting your arm like hey man How about you leave that topic alone that to me?  I want to speak my mind. I want to use my mouth and my tongue the way that I want That's the sickest thing to me at all. I love that elon must bot twitter and he's moving in that direction, but The control the control of speech is so sick to me, you know Even even at a conference like this a conference organizer Like trying to dictate you what you can say it's like motherfucker.  I'm like, what is the most literal? Physical demands these people are making of me and whether I'm typing with my fingers or using my tongue on my mouth This control it's like slavery.  I want to be a ted speaker blah, blah, blah, but Really to me it's this global global homo of feminist, you know anti masculinity conference That they would never let any of you guys speak at the conference Not about anything important anyway They would just control it and whitewash The number of people trying to get me to do a ted x talk At a university here in sex's And on the transgender issue from the other side and they absolutely would not allow me they wouldn't even Accept an application Yeah, wow. Yeah I believe in that I believe it.  Literally castrating little boys. It's okay to talk about that but you can't talk about making them into men Yep, how sick is that? It's evil. We're gonna destroy their society That's the problem and that's you know, that's what what steve was saying a while ago. That's what that is the hardest part about trying to help If if they if if they do come across a man and a man is it gives them some help They leave they have to leave and they have to go back to wherever they came from They have to go back to where what broke them.  Had he been around me? I would have told him about those dudes that his dad allowed him to Hang out with that allowed him to influence himself with because I could tell those dudes were looking man.  That is a hard deal Yeah, terrible story I want to get you guys closing thoughts on the event Do you think that people watching should go next year? What are your thoughts on people like actually men, you know, mostly men anyway, some women as well But what are your thoughts on men and women showing up to the events? People complain. They they criticize this and that It's too long. It's too much money. It's this and that whatever.  I think that it's just real world experience man. You have to Go out and talk with people stop larping on the internet man Get rid of your avatar stop being a loser I mean just simple plain and simple and I do understand that some people do have to protect their identities in this In this community in this world But you know when anthony first puts out tickets I mean literally two guys can go for a thousand bucks for five six days So how can you beat that so get your tickets and if you're interested in being a volunteer just Reach out when the tickets are put out and like I said, you'll have a Basically like a backstage pass and you know be part of the production, which is which is always a good time for sure so yeah I'll go I'll go too much too much money They they say too much money, but they spend money on jordan's too much money But they waste money on clothes to try to get women too much money They just waste money don't know how to invest money investing is all about going Put taking your money to invest in yourself to learn more about yourself instead of sitting around Caking and just watching things and now there lies a problem they can start right now This is going to have a year from now to go ahead and say whatever money they need to save If they actually really want to be a part of something greater, they will get uber. They'll go lift They'll get a second job and do it. That's what men do they find ways to Find a way to get around other men and they don't make excuses So it just shows what you actually are to yourself if you don't want to do this But anthill again anthill I appreciate you and I appreciate all the men on here and I appreciate what you're doing for men And I know people don't like that They don't want they just don't want to see you win But who wants to see men win nowadays?   You know what I mean?  I don't have the money to do that But then you sit back and you watch what they buy what they purchase every day It's the same way we're training, you know, I see people that are unhealthy fat men with titties No, I just can't you know, I can't afford it But the motherfucker's got a red bull and some other shit in his hand at the store every morning If if you if if you really want to level level up I think that it's it's essential that you do something like this convention and I don't know I don't know any other convention that's got men That that speak the way that the men that I heard at this one did Like I said, I didn't know what to expect And listening to listening to the guy speak and then speaking with them in person I think one of the one of the most fundamental things that young boys need to do Is make sure that the person that you're listening to is authentic And there's so many people like tony said that are larping or they're projecting some bullshit And they're showing up in a certain way that they don't really show up in life If if you really like if you're watching anybody that's on this panel if you're watching anybody that's in this group online The benefit of being able to sit with that man and ask questions It's priceless The ticket maybe it costs some money But losing over and over in life making the same mistakes over and over in life or Going down a path that you're unsure of when you could get guidance from people that have already trod that path That's important. It's very important And like I said, it doesn't to me doesn't matter where you go But I think that you should go somewhere For the men are pushing you forward not telling you how to put yourself in a trap for the society A lot of the red pill shit is showing you how to trap yourself It's good to have I don't know who said it but somebody said that it was uh It was a course not a degree That was one of the most profound statements that I heard one of the men at that summit say Because that's all it is. It's an entry point.   You're just going to sit there behind your wall Sending it over the fence hoping that it sticks and it's not going to work that way So I would say if you really want to level up like I leveled up and I spoke the thing So I think it's not a sales pitch. I'm just telling the truth man It is highly beneficial to anyone That's not comfortable where they are You know my view is um You know, I don't believe in leadership styles There's one way to lead people and that's to lead by example All leadership style stuff's all bullshit. Either you're doing it people follow you're doing it or they're not The other thing is there's not much difference between a good leader and a good follower We don't ever talk about that. I do this exercise all the time with people I'll get on a whiteboard. Let's list all the things we want in a good follower on our team We go to lunch everybody forgets about it and I say let's list out all the qualities of a good leader And then I show them as same list exactly the same list If you can't follow and and learn by example, you can't lead Okay, and if you can't lead you suck as a follower. We don't need you In fact, I'm telling you if you're not interested in being a leader you probably shouldn't go You know, but if you want to be around men that can show set examples for you On how to be a leader and how to make a difference in your own community and your own family This is the place for you.      It's impossible I've said this before that you guys speaking in my events. The reason you're speaking is because in some way I'm following what you're saying and what you're thinking I'm learning from you and that to me is an act of not of leadership of following I'm a leader in organizing the events But i'm a follower and that each one of you is an expert in some way that i'm not you're further ahead of me And I need to follow your lead. I'm not an expert on paternity fraud like carnell smith Or or you know jeff with you and the trans stuff and the The massive battle you've been fighting in family court. You've had to educate yourself to a level I'll probably never hit but at least I can learn from that And and benefit profoundly from your negative experiences where you've had to fight for your life and fight for your sons I don't want that to ever happen to me. And if anything ever even approaches that I know exactly where I can go to learn from Uh, who to learn from and then what to do and these these men who watch your videos.   It's been really awesome having you at the events once again I'll pause your first time but really haven't happy to meet you. I mean like super authentic, man Yeah, so that's it for episode 177 of the red man group guys Um, everyone check out the description. I'll put links later to each one of their channels and websites and stuff like that Uh, you can check out Jeff younger on sub stack steve on youtube and his website the man mindset Paul is on youtube mostly at the war room And tony of course is on youtube as well and social media The search tony bruno and on youtube. There's two of them. He's the better looking one the other guy I don't know. I don't know who the other guy is. I always see it though All right guys, I'll see you soon. You can stay on behind the scenes here everyone else I'll see you probably next saturday. If not, we'll be back to regular shows every saturday pretty soon Appreciate you tuning in peace out


The range of activities you could do in class is limited really only by your imagination. To help give you a bit of a kickstart on that let's brainstorm some possibilities. So to start off with maybe you've got a demonstration. The demonstration doesn't really translate to video because maybe its whole effect is that something explodes at the front of the class and gets everyone interested. Now if you're going to have a demonstration it's a really good idea to have people try and predict what's going to happen and then process afterwards. So a predict correct routine is an excellent way to get a nice active component into a demonstration. If you want to make sure that everybody participates in that rather than just a few people then try and get them to predict and correct in small groups. Another thing you might have, you might have some basic skills that you want them to have, some basic drill in which case you can just give them exercises to do and you can go around and watch that. If you think students need more work on conceptual issues rather than basic drill then maybe you should give them more conceptual questions that can often work very well in small group work. Now typically a small group is something like three in three people it's very easy to tell whether someone is just coasting on the others and coasting is an issue you have to watch out for when you're walking around the room but some of the advantages are you tend to get proximate learning so people that are very near each other in knowledge and skill actually teach each other very well. You can actually combine the small group work and the prediction correction model for getting students to refine their conceptual models and you can do that for the whole class in a sequence of questions provided you have appropriate technology so you could use things like clickers or tablets or smartphones and appropriate software and students can see what other people are voting in terms of responses to a particular question and then they can get back together in their small groups and discuss that problem and try and come up with a refined prediction and sometimes we give students basic drill and we expect them to be able to scale up their efforts there into much larger more realistic problems and often they actually need help and scaffolding to do so and an in-class activity where you don't have to cover extra material during the actual class time gives you an excellent opportunity to try some larger more developed exercises. So what we're doing there is we're trying to bridge the gap between basic knowledge and the ability to apply things of course the extreme version of that is where you take a genuine authentic application of that knowledge and so you really want to focus towards an actual output that you want the students to be able to achieve and give them some practice at doing that. So in a physics kind of context which is where I come from the basic drill might be learning how to use the laws and mechanics in the larger more complex exercise they take that new content and they draw it together to understand a much more complicated system and then they examine the actual behavior of that system and so they learn to understand various kinds of behavior as well then the authentic application might be design something now model it now tell me things about it in other words answer the kind of question that they might get when trying to really use this knowledge in a work kind of situation and the extensions to other contexts is fairly obvious you have your basic drill your larger more complex exercises and then you have a real authentic application which is a very valuable way of getting your education to be applicable and useful in the real world to help get to that point you might want to focus not on content and learning more content go through sort of drill and then larger exercise and so forth you might want to focus on skills and of course you can design exercises to really work on particular skills so you could prep for particular projects or you could work on a communication skill where students for example work on something and then present to each other or present to the class and really imagination is your only limit you could have a role play you could design a game you could have students analyze news reports you could have them referee in application you could try a two-stage exam which starts off exactly like a mid-semester exam where you give students an exam and they work through it and they hand that in but then you put them together in groups of three and then they work through the same exam again and then they hand a group exam paper in and you give them some fraction of their solo mark and some fraction of their group mark that turns out to have a lot of good learning effects as well as give you some good summative feedback and one of the nice things about this teaching framework is they don't necessarily have to give all students exactly the same task because they've already covered the basic content and so you're free to adjust the activities that different students do on a spontaneous basis so you can be in the workshop with ideas with a plan and you can give a particular student if they're struggling on some particular area some other tasks to do and they're not going to be left behind in fact you're going to be using their time more efficiently and the only things that can really constrain that are how you're doing your assessment for your course and so your assessment becomes a really important question how to design these things and that's what we'll address next.


This is a protein. It's a tiny machine. As it spins around it captures small molecules and glues them together before releasing them and this process powers the cell. Living cells are like small factories in which many different types of proteins work together as a sort of assembly line. Converting simple inputs like sugars and oxygen into more complex outputs. Now if we can design these proteins we can have them produce virtually anything around us. This could be medicines, foods, biodegradable plastics, or the dye in your blue jeans. And these factories powered by proteins can replace conventional production processes that today are based on petrochemicals or intensive animal agriculture. And the sustainability impacts of this can be huge. The global chemicals industry for example produces over 30% of total carbon emissions. A company like Sologen is disrupting this industry by using proteins in their factories to produce fine chemicals. They've built the world's first carbon negative chemicals plant that uses no heat, produces virtually no waste. It consumes CO2 and it also has a 60% margin. We're a company called Perfect Day where I worked briefly. They produce milk protein without the cow. This process uses only 1% of blue water and emits only 3% of the carbon emissions compared to cows. Now how do we design proteins? Well proteins are a structure of chains of small building blocks called amino acids. And if we swap out one of these amino acids we can change how the protein folds, how it behaves, and what function it carries out. And protein sequences can be represented as a type of code, like character strings of amino acids that can be edited. Coding biology sounds great in theory, but there's a catch. Because even a small protein can have more possible configurations than there are atoms in the universe. And so even teams of very experienced experts have a very hard time predicting the effect of a small change, let alone how these small changes impact each other. Now a founder we work with illustrated this by saying we know that 99% of our protein designs fail. We just can't predict which 99%. You see, biology, like software, has a compile and run. But the difference is that instead of taking minutes, this process takes weeks or months and it requires years of experience. And even then the success rate is only 1%. Imagine if you could build a technology that gives biologists superpowers. Technology that could dramatically increase the number of designs that work out in the laboratory. We really believe that generative machine learning is the key to unlocking this. It's very similar to some of the machine learning models that you've seen in the media recently. For example, GTP3 is a machine learning model that can help you write better marketing copy. Or with GitHub co-pilot, you could get suggestions to improve your Python code. Or even with stable diffusion, you can have a model help you make art. Now I can paint by hand and I would need thousands and thousands of hours of training to be any good at it. But today with the help of AI, I can and indefinitely faster than Vermeer, Rembrandt, or Van Gogh. Cradle is like co-pilot for biology, where a model helps you design a better protein sequence. We are building generative machine learning models to improve protein function as well as properties. And we can use these models to check, suggest, or maybe even generate entirely new protein sequences for your biological application. For example, you might want your little protein machine to produce more of the milk that Elisa just talked about. This is something biologists call activity, like how active the protein is. Or if you're making a therapeutic protein, you might want it to be stable for longer in a human body, so it can actually reach its disease target. This is something biologists call thermostability. Cradle offers a modern web-based application and set of APIs that can be used by the R&D departments of pharma, chemicals, materials, and the food industry. Our platform provides some of the best-in-class machine learning models that were validated on industry-relevant benchmarks. Biologists can collaborate, share their designs, and publish their workflows as a template for others to use. So is it any good? I probably wouldn't be the first machine learning startup founder to claim that their models were amazing. Biologists are scientists, and so you really need to convince them with data before they are willing to try something. Therefore, we've benchmarked all of our models against industry-relevant tools and data sets, and I'd love to share some of that with you. The first task that we focused on as a team was to improve protein stability under higher temperature, making sure that the protein doesn't fall apart when it gets a little bit hotter. So we've built a benchmark of around 40,000 proteins, as well as 89 peer-reviewed empirical studies that worked on improving this property of having better protein stability, and we asked our models, could you identify what changes you would make in that protein in order to make it more stable? What we found is that, before having seen any experimental information, our models were about 20% better than the state-of-art industry-leading tool that's out there today. But as we feed the models with additional data from lab experiments, these suggestions improve even more. For most of the studies, we were seeing accuracies improved to over 90%, after only a hundred experimental data points, and for those that are not biologists, most biology teams can do 89 experiments in, let's say, a couple of weeks. Cradle is working with several design partners right now to make sure that our software is fit for purpose, and it's really incredibly cool to see companies that are building proteins that are completely designed by machine learning. Protein design used to be really hard and expensive, and we want to make it easy. Success would really mean that two kids in a garage could build a bio-based product for a couple million dollars in a few years instead of ten years and tens of millions of dollars. So basically, everybody would start pitching bugs to the VC in the audience. If you're designing medicines, materials, food, or chemicals with protein, do please hit us up, and we'd love to welcome you as a design partner. For the VCs out here, we know you don't design proteins, but you do ultimately decide what gets built. If your crypto fund is down and you're looking for a different vertical to invest in, there's a lot of really awesome synthetic biology companies out there. We'll enable them going faster, but you do have to give them some money. Thank you very much.