Good day everyone. I'm assistant professor Rishad Mistry from the mechanical engineering department at Wachan Institute of Technology Sholapur. And in this video I'll be talking about machine vision. So this topic in fact is a part of the series industrial robotics and this covers a very important aspect of modern day industrial robots, that is machine vision or robot vision. So the learning outcomes of this session is that the student will be able to define machine vision and its associated terms and explain fundamentals of image processing. So if you actually look up definition for robot vision or machine vision or computer vision in different textbooks or online, you will come across different definitions. I have seen textbooks which use these terms interchangeably as well. So when they say robot vision or computer vision or machine vision, it basically means one and the same thing. So like I said, different sources can give information which is a bit different. And that's why it is more prudent in fact to look at different sources and include in fact all of these. So on the basis of whatever I have read in textbooks and online, this is how I would sort of define robot vision, computer vision and machine vision. So robot vision may be defined as the process of extracting, characterizing and interpreting information from images of a 3D world. In fact this applies to machine vision or computer vision as well. I have seen another definition for computer vision that is it's the study and application of methods which allows a computer to understand the content of the image. And when we talk about machine vision in particular, it's the application of computer vision to industry and manufacturing. So in fact I would say robot vision would be a specific subset within machine vision and machine vision itself would be a subset of computer vision. So in fact robot vision I would define as very specifically the application of computer vision or machine vision in this sense. For robot control tasks either with industrial joint arm manipulators or with mobile robots. Then again this is again it depends upon what the source of your definition is. So what is typically machine vision and what is its scope? What are the different areas of science and technology that it covers? So computer vision or machine vision as indicated in this figure typically includes all these things. So in fact for someone who really wants to make a good career in this particular field he requires understanding of control systems. A bit of artificial intelligence nowadays. Machine learning, mathematics, the mathematics specifically behind vision and signal processing because this is mainly all signal processing. The physics and optics involved because this is where all the cameras come into picture. And to a certain extent if you're looking at very specific application then you need a certain amount of background knowledge regarding that application. For example here is neurobiology if you're looking at physics and atrophysics then in fact that would also come into place. So it's a very multidisciplinary field to begin with. So what is basically machine vision and what it involves? So it involves sensing and acquisition of the image. Followed by what is called as image processing which again may have sub steps within it such as processing, segmentation, description of the image, recognition of a pattern and then interpreting that. And then finally outputting the results either to a control system or to an operator who can take necessary decisions. So when it comes to machine vision like I said sensing is the process which will yield the visual image. Pre-processing is a stage within the image processing which will do noise reduction and enhancement of these details. Segmentation will divide the image into objects of interest and description basically it is involving competition of features such as size, shape, etc. And then recognition involves classifying this and identifying those specifics. So this is in fact a part of the image processing, image analysis and other stuff. In fact I use the word image processing in order to indicate a lot of things that you do with an image using a computer. In fact textbooks on image processing have their own vocabulary and own nomenclature as to what should be called image processing, what is image analysis, what is and so on and so on. Again we continue with our discussion regarding the machine vision process. The process of vision system actually starts with the image acquisition in which the representation of the image data and digitization is accomplished. This is obviously done with the camera. Image sensing is the next step to obtain a proper image from the scene. So now you obtain an image from the scene. Then we digitize that particular image and in the last step the image processing in which a more suitable image is actually prepared. So this is how in fact, in fact a lot of things goes on what appears to us in a simple click. In fact all these things typically happen in that. Now can you think of potential applications of machine vision and automation and manufacturing based on whatever you studied in second and third year of engineering. In fact there is a set up laboratory setup which could definitely use a machine vision system as a part of it. Which is the setup that I'm talking about. Let's see if this rings a bell for you. Let's look into components of a machine vision. So a components of a machine system typically in fact the first part is the camera itself which may be a CCD camera or a CMOS camera. In machine vision applications still CCD cameras are preferred but CMOS cameras are catching up. Then you have specialized light sources with specialized illumination. Then you have the interface for the camera. You have the main processor. You may have a dedicated signal processor for the same. And then you have the device input output communication systems and the software for detecting features and so on. So this is typically what comprises of a complete machine vision system. So it's not just the camera. The camera is one part of it. It includes the lighting. It includes all the accessories. It includes the interfaces. It includes the cables and also the software. So let us discuss some of these components now. There are plenty of good resources available online for machine vision. In fact the manufacturers themselves have some of the best resources that you can find. One of these which I have used. There are others such as Teledyne, Dalsa, Basler and even a lot of Japanese manufacturers. They have very good products and the information contained on their website is very informative, precise and very up to date as a matter of fact. In fact what I have noticed is that some industrial robotics textbook, the information that is contained about machine vision systems is really very old. So in fact these are talking about Vidicon cameras which go back to the 70s. Okay, nobody uses these today. So it is in fact more prudent to seek information from the manufacturers themselves rather than relying on textbooks which typically date back to the 80s and 90s and unfortunately the contents have not been revised in many of these textbooks. So this actually is a typical machine vision camera and this is one of the most critical aspect of the machine vision system. Cameras typically like I said are CCD cameras charge couple devices or CMOS cameras. When it comes to machine vision application let me iterate. A market study which I read a couple of years back indicate that CCD cameras still have the higher market share when it comes to machine vision applications especially space and other defense applications. But CMOS has definitely caught up. When I started looking into the subject in around 2012-13 and by 2018 in fact there was a significant increase in market share when it comes to CMOS cameras. Like I said when it comes to laptops and mobile applications and even SLRs CMOS cameras have pretty much taken over the market. Then an important aspect of machine vision in fact we will be discussing this in detail in a different video is regarding lighting. So lot of information is available regarding what are the different types of lighting classification how to accomplish this. But there is no vision system without the necessary and proper lighting technique based on the application. So this is one example of the lighting system which I have given over here. Another one is in this particular site is called as backlight technique. In fact this website has an interactive set of which tells you how this profile is going to look like in the camera. So like I said more details will be discussed in the dedicated video for lighting. It's a very important aspect of the machine vision system. Another important aspect of machine vision is the software. Nothing can happen without the software. You have open source software based on Python which lot of people widely use. You have open CV, open machine vision and so on and so forth. But many manufacturers have proprietary software which they have fine tuned for certain applications. And in any industrial setup it's highly unlikely that you will find open source software. Though they are extensively used in research work but most industrial applications do deal with proprietary software. So what are the applications of machine vision? In fact we have a dedicated video for this. But generic domains would be control for autonomous mobile robots for quality control applications in industry. Retail automation for example bar core readers. In agricultural automation it's a very upcoming field for detecting plant diseases and so on. Railway track inspection for cracks and flaws is a very specialized application of machine vision. And then you have new developments which involve development of vision systems for blind people. Another applications are biometrics like facial recognition, positioning systems, safety systems for industrial environments. Extensive use in inspection and quality control and like I said in inventory control, counting, etc. Bar code reading especially in supply chain and inventory management. So when it comes to books and references, standard textbooks have good information regarding this. But I would definitely encourage you to look up websites of machine vision manufacturers. These have very good and very relevant information when it comes to cameras and algorithms for machine vision. And in fact a lot of other things. With this we'll call it a day and in the next video we'll talk in more detail about machine vision applications. Thank you.


Okay, let's analyze the pronunciation of this paragraph in fast spoken English. So on the top I'm going to show the normal text and then on the bottom of each slide I'll illustrate some of the pronunciation changes and adjustments that happen when we're speaking fast, okay? So the first phrase is, what's the best way to study English if you're busy and you don't have a lot of time? You can see that we don't say what. It sounds more like was, what's the best way? And the t at the end of best also kind of disappears. What's the best way to study English? You can see that the word to becomes ta and it's just barely pronounced at the end of way. What's the best way to study English? Study English. Those two words kind of run together, the i from study and the i from English kind of combine, study English, okay? And the next phrase, if you're busy and you don't have a lot of time, you can see that the word your is pronounced like your in fast spoken English. The word busy is pronounced with an i sound, busy, and the word and kind of becomes nn. If you're busy and you don't have a lot of time, busy and you don't. It's very common for the word and to get reduced to just an n sound. You don't becomes you don't, you don't, and have a lot of time. All of those little words, a lot of run together into a lot of. So it sounds like this, have a lot of time. Let's move on. Well, remember that being consistent, I want to call your attention to the strong syllables in this phrase, which are put in bold and underlined. So it follows a little bit of a rhythm. Well, remember that being consistent, let's try it fast. Well, remember that being consistent, that means working on your English. The letter o in working has more of an r sound, working, working on your English. Then the word your becomes your, frequently and regularly. Here we see another example of the word and becoming n in between two more important words, frequently and regularly. Frequently has three syllables, frequently, and regularly has four syllables, regularly. That's quite a difficult word, regularly. It's actually more important. Now here you can see that the words is and actually kind of blend together. And I illustrated the pronunciation of the word actually. We don't say actually or something like that. We say actually, is actually. Then we have more important. The word more kind of runs into the word important. And the last syllable of important kind of gets reduced. We don't say important. We say important, more important. Then try and aspend. Again you can see the word to just becomes a little a sound at the end of trying. Try and aspend. Hours and hours. Remember the h in the word hours is silent, so don't pronounce it at all. Hours and hours. And the and becomes n, studying. Most of us don't have long periods of free time. The words most of us kind of run together, most of us. And at the end of the word don't. We don't really pronounce the t strongly, so don't say don't. It's more of a stop at the back of your throat. The sound cuts off very suddenly. Don't have, don't have. Most of us don't have long periods of free time. The word of runs into the word free. Periods of free time. So don't wait until you can clear your schedule. Again we have two more examples of a t sound at the end of a word, sounding just like a sudden stop and not necessarily like t, okay? Don't wait, don't wait. When speaking fast, the first syllable of until is barely pronounced. Listen to it again. Don't wait until, don't wait until. We almost continue the word wait right into the end sound. Don't wait until. You can clear your schedule. The word can sounds like can. You can clear.  You can clear your schedule. Instead, just make it your goal. The t at the end of the word just is barely pronounced. Just make it your goal. And you can see something funny happening with the words make it your. When we have a word ending in t followed by the word you or your, it often sounds like a ch sound. So make it your goal sounds like make it your goal. Make it your goal to spend 15 minutes a day. Remember to pronounce the second syllable of 15 nice and strong, 15, not like 50, which is a different number. 15 minutes a day. You can see that the last two syllables of minutes become very small and just serve to connect with the word day. 15 minutes a day. Finishing one short activity. The word one starts with the w sound, okay? Some students pronounce it like on, but that's not correct. It's one. One short activity. And the words short and activity also kind of flow into each other, short activity. You could read the news in English, okay? The stressed syllables are read, news, and the first syllable of English, in. You could read the news in English while eating breakfast. The word while, when speaking fast, often becomes sort of like wall while eating breakfast. And the first syllable of breakfast is pronounced with an eh sound. It's not like the word break. It's like break, breakfast. Or listen to an English podcast. The letter t is silent in the word listen, listen. Listen to an English podcast. You can see that the words to, and, English all flow together to an English podcast. While you're driving, again we have the word while becoming wall and you're becoming your. While you're driving, while you're driving or exercising. Often when the word or is between two more important words, it sounds like er, driving or exercising. Or do a worksheet during your lunch break. The letter o in the word work and the letter u in the word during, they both have this er sound. Do a worksheet during your lunch break. Here's the last sentence. If you make these short study periods, the words if and you are fast, they are just leading up to the word make. If you make these short study periods, again you can see that we don't say short. We say short, short study periods. Part of your daily routine. So part of your all runs up to the word daily. Part of your daily routine. The syllable teen is stressed in the word routine. You'll start seeing your English. The word you'll, which is short for you will is pronounced kind of like you'll. You'll start seeing your English improve. Stress on the second syllable improve over time. You'll start seeing your English improve over time. Okay, I hope this analysis was helpful and if you'd like to improve your accent, check out my training courses, which have 60 lessons of English pronunciation training and practice. There's the American English pronunciation course, which will explain the sounds of the English language, consonants and vowels, one by one, in order to improve your rhythm and your pronunciation. If you buy both courses together, there's actually a discount, so click on the link to check it out.


What is your favorite meal to eat when you're on the road? Country for that steak. Your favorite states to drive through? Colorado, Utah, Wyoming. What's your name? Karen. Hi Karen, nice to meet you. What are your top three favorite states to drive through? It would be New Jersey, the Carolinas, and Vegas. Thank you. How long have you been driving for night? I just started, so kind of brand new. Oh, welcome aboard.  A better company, closer to home, more family-based. Are your top three favorite states to drive through? So far, just kind of start, so it's hard to say. But Oregon is the prettiest, the forest, just all of it right now. Yeah.


We're going to switch gears and go back to our community schools bill. We have a new draft, I believe that right. We do I can I can share it. Yeah. Yeah. Do I have. Do you have. Yeah. Okay, thanks. Can people see this. Yeah. Okay. So for the record, Jim Danware, let's console. We're walking through draft 6.1. Of your. Amendment. You. Community schools.  It's every neighborhood before. And then. We have a citation here to this. Point about return on investment. So that's been added. We have a citation to this other. Citation about. About the yield on having. This program. And then we have to still add. That's not the capital Y yield. That's the word yield. Yeah. As in not, not, I just want to make sure people know, but that's not related to the, to our. And finance. Word used. Yeah. And then eight, we need to add a finding on urban, suburban and rural school still. We changed the name of the grant program. From pilot to a demonstration grant. And that's throughout the bill. And then there's. Excuse me for just one second, Jim. If you wouldn't mind zooming back out. Just a little bit. I think it's.  Just a little. Hold on. That's the problem. Okay. How's that? Perfect. Okay. So we were here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Community school coordinator means a person who. And these were changes that were suggested. So still full-time or part-time staff member. Serving in. And it was with school. And appointed according to the Vermont law. And then over here is responsible for the identification of limitation and coordination. And then the grant. Grant. Authorization. Two things to hire. A community school coordinator. Or the argument. Work already being performed. To develop and implement. A community school program. And then we have a program. So if you're going to get rid of probation. Then the secretary should award grants on. Based on relative need. Which case. You might want to establish criteria. To guide the secretary and making that determination. And then use of grant funding again. Now it has two purposes to hire. And the argument. Work already being done. And then we have a point of operation here. So if you're going to get rid of probation. Then the secretary should award grants. And then the government. Work already being done. After work is to hire a clinical coordinator. Then. Every four about. What they do in the first year versus the second two years. And then. This was changed based on. Email from Catherine. JFO. So now it's being funded from. ESSA really fund pursuant to this section of federal law and I just add some words about technical assistance. And so I just said such as assistance with applying for the grant funding and use of grant funding. And that was it for changes. Thank you. I'm going to go back to the beginning. I'm wondering, you made a statement right at the beginning. I think it was in the first paragraph about that community schools has been shown to increase something. It says according to most recent data, can we put that, can we cite that data? Or just put a source of that data? Where are we? This is here. So it's in the above paragraph. Number five? Yeah, number five, the first sentence. Is that the same bit? Is that the same source as that statement? I don't know the sources of that one. Okay, because I think we really need to cite the sources that we're using. I mean, that's just my opinion. I just tend to look at sources. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And I think maybe Kathleen, I think you, you're able to help us with that. Yeah. And then the other question, let me just see Kathleen, are you able to respond to those questions brought by representative? Because this started out as model legislation, everything here that we haven't added a specific citation for comes from the community schools playbook and all the research material at the Learning Policy Institute. So we need to add. Yeah. So we can cite that main document. Right. Yeah. Okay. That would be great. And just, I just wonder like on outcomes of this program, how, I mean, are we going to measure like how many people use it or if student outcomes, attendance and academic achievement, are we going to measure that somehow? How will we see that this program is working and that might need to be adjusted or tweaked or something because it's not meeting outcomes that we're hoping for? I mean, I would think it would be use that. I mean, I'm wondering if we could just keep track, someone could just keep track of how many people use it. You know, I just would like to have some idea. Did you want to add something to the bill? Well, I don't, I can't add it because I don't know how to measure it. You know, I don't know what the measurement would be, but I do think it would be helpful to have some way to look back on it. Maybe in the document that Kathleen was talking about, they could, I'm sure they address outcomes. We don't have to figure out how they measure it. We just have to tell them what they want. We want them to measure and why we want it. Okay.  There's a report back listed on page eight. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. I could respond. Thank you. So we're going to be reporting on the program twice after the first year and after the end of the third year of implementation. And beyond that, we can't really choose metrics because each, each grant applicant will be rolling out a different program based on their, their community needs and their assessments. Each individual program will be deciding what they want to do. And then I'm sure tracking outcomes of their individual program. If, if we wanted to, you know, one of the things we were going to try to talk to the AOE about is how they will develop the grant application. You know, I'd be shocked if a basic every basic grant application says how are you going to measure your progress. If there's a way that we need to make sure that AOE includes that language in the grant application, I'm totally okay with that. That's kind of grant, that's kind of grant 101. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. Representative Jane, should you have something in addition. I did. Thank you. I'm, I'm also looking at the draft. And I had a couple of comments and a question. On page three, line 13, we're waiting for a finding on urban, suburban and rural schools. I have some information and I'm assuming what the committee would like to see here is really more some information that this has been rolled out successfully in rural areas. Am I correct on that? Okay, I have that. Just a finding to just let people know that it didn't just happen in Chicago. I have all that material. And then scrolling down, I did want to discuss quickly, page six, line 17. One thing that I'm worried is getting lost in this, in this new phrasing is our, our belief and what the research shows that having someone in the role of community school cord coordinator is vital. And so I, I would like to find a way to retain that language and when we were talking about this. It was sort of my understanding that we would allow the grant flexibility for applicants in a way that would either allow them to hire a community schools coordinator, or if they already had someone in that role in that work. And to me the way this is, this is a little different because it implies that you could apply for a grant without having a community school coordinator. So this is not augment work already being performed. You mean it. So you, you'd like to see language more related to a position that's already there. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, the, in looking over all the, the research that I've looked at the role of a community school coordinator having that position and someone who is specifically tasked with that, that title and that work is really important to the effectiveness of the program. So what I, what I anyway would not want to see would be a school or a district being able to apply without having somebody in that role. So in my mind, there are two ways you can do this you can apply for the money to hire a community schools coordinator, or if you already have a community schools coordinator or someone that you're going to designate to that, that you could get the get the money to expand their work. I see Colin was in the room. Did you have a thought on this one Colin. Yes, I changed scenery, Colin Robinson, Vermont and EA. I also thank you represent James for flagging this because I had a similar reflection. And so, but also understand sort of the intent and so perhaps it is as simple as saying something like an applicant could designate an individual to be the community schools coordinator. And then use that to augment the work or some, you know, Jim could probably come up with a better wording than I can on the fly, but the notion being as represent James spoke to that there could be somebody already doing the work. And making sure that person is designated and then is using the, these, these funds to supplement and expand existing work. And one of the things from the original, the bill is introduced I think is the was the notion that districts could apply for this to not supplant existing work, right, but to expand upon existing work and I think that's sort of what we're trying to drive out here right. Do you think it could be as simple as augment work already being performed by an existing community school school coordinator to develop an implement designated. I think, you know, we're what we all what we heard from others is that there might be schools that are already doing this work and we know we're doing this work in various ways and there might not be a person who's full time job it is to do this, who might be in a position to move into that. Perhaps you could sort of noodle that language and see what it is and offer it back to the committee. Happy to keep going. I had a few more. Yeah, let me just, I'm just checking to see. Make sure you're not the only one here. Great. Okay. Yes, go ahead. Okay, so page seven line five. It was my understanding that we were going to strike out the concept of proration completely. We did talk about that didn't we. Yeah. And the point point I'm raising here is that's, that's what I'm, that's what that brackets for saying if you strike it out, then what comes with places that because now the secretary probably needs criteria by which to base his decisions around policy. So I'm not sure what to put in there if you take out paration. How about, could it be not appropriated blah, blah, blah is not sufficient to fully fund, Kathleen I want, I'm going to stop you for just a minute because I want to flag that one right now so that's page seven line five, because I want to be able to look at people's faces. I'll stop sharing here. I want to make sure that there's something else that you wanted to, if you just wanted to address something else while the bill is up. I do. I'm looking at my own copy actually. So, bottom of page nine, I guess, or, yeah, bottom of page seven, I guess just still gets state what it is because people might not be looking at it. To the question I had about designating making sure that there's a designated community schools coordinator. So again it's that same language it says to augment work already being performed by the eligible applicant. So that's really what we were talking about earlier, just my, my belief based on the research I've read that there needs to be a designated person. Yeah. My only final question is, again, getting to that feeling of really wanting to make sure that the grant application guidelines are what we want, and that the technical assistance provided from the AOE is what we want, and how we ensure that that happens. Is that you a new hand or an old hand. It's an old hand, I apologize. So I'm just looking to the committee, I think one of the things as we have talked about pro ration want to just pro ration or it's just the grant. Jim, Jim Ray want to help us a little bit. I think that you just need to have the agency come in and ask and have a conversation about if it's actually provided what guidance do you need to determine need and have that conversation. Okay. Anybody else on that one. So I'm just wondering when we can get them in. Perhaps, Kathleen, you could reach out to Heather Boucher or Ted, and ask them if they want to speak to us if they could speak to us on that. Actually, Unfortunately, I think Deputy Secretary Boucher said she's busy, but yeah. Okay, so Jesse, will you reach out to the secretary. Assistant secretary to the to the group and say that we would like their input on the wording on page. What section is it. So the section was page five. No. Yeah, on page seven, it's in section. It's the grant administration. And we'd like their input on that section. Or I would have to do that just to clarify you're looking for oral testimony from Deputy Secretary Boucher or written testimony this week or just to get it this week. That's great. There are some other things that we're dealing with. So it may have to go to the beginning of next week. Kate for such a small piece, don't you think just some written suggestion from them is sufficient. Yeah. Right to her and explain what we're looking for. Yeah, copy Jesse. Great. Representative Austin. I think Ted is coming in tomorrow morning. I wonder if we pose the question today if he could perhaps bring us the answer tomorrow. Great. Good. Good idea. Jesse, would you mind sending that as well. Yes, yeah, I'll include us in an email right now. Requesting either written testimony or comment from Ted tomorrow. Okay, since then there's been a question that's come in from a couple of sources. One was the former secretary of human services, as well as former Lieutenant Governor, who had concerns that we hadn't included the agency of human services on this in this conversation anywhere. I've reached out to amp you representative amp you to just take a quick look to see if this is something they want input on or, and also just, I will try to be sorting out on the break, how we address that. There also is a group. I'm sorry I've forgotten the name of the group Kathleen representative James that I spoke with. Education equity project. Who has been very involved in this, this concept and want to speak to us so we're scheduling that for after the break. Representative Williams. Yes, thank you, chair web. I just want to express Doug re scenes letter from yesterday. I was excited about getting this bill passed. And that has not changed I think this is, is a very good concept. I also, because of his letter, it helped me understand better the concerns that representative to fin representative Coupoli addressed yesterday. I feel that I lost sight of the need for this success and benefiting schools of poverty. Therefore, I hope we will consider the testimony of Mr. Racine. I think he raises some valid points. Thank you. No. So we are we're working on on that. And looking for solution also at the time he was looking at it was related to the Education Fund, which was his concern which it no longer is so. Okay, anybody else. I am hoping that the next step here for us is going to be to follow up with come with corrections committee to see if they want to add to the school construction bill. If so, it what language we would need to include. And if not, I would be looking to to go to vote on that tomorrow. We have the ability we're coming back after, after the floor and after the joint hearing anyway, we'll opportunity to talk again. As far as the other bills, I think we're probably not going to be ready to pass to move those before the break, sadly. It just, we have a few things to address. I think we will see if I can have this a small group work on the literacy bill. If we can get a few of those things answered about the community schools bill in relation to the agency of human services, I think that would be helpful. And we'll hear from 92 the finance will will hear from. We'll see the CFO agency of education tomorrow, and then we'll hear follow up from the field when we get back, and our work needs to be done when we get back to be no more, no more, no more decorating. William says that a new hand or an old hand. I'm sorry that's an old hand. Representative James. Chair Webb, could you clarify for me and for, and for some of the newer folks on the committee, just so people have context for the sense of urgency crossover. Yes, so, you know, our bills that we that we love, and that have put so much time in where they need to be by when so that they don't so they aren't dead for this year. I would have been a lot better if we could have gotten them out by the end of this week, but that's to stop going to be possible. I'm hoping that community schools week I mean that that construction we can. I thought we might be able to move community schools but we may not be able to do that. One thing I keep in mind about community schools is there is another body that looks at these bills, and one of the people that's in the Education Committee chairs that Health and Human Services in the Senate. So, it won't be forgotten if we don't get it perfect. I don't try to give them the work to do because they'll make up their own mind and what they're doing, but it's just important to know that there's a danger in nothing happening. So, at some point it's going to be. We're voting with whatever we've got. And I met also with the dates. So, how it all works with the dates I think that would be great to refresh. I think that the policy committee policy committee must be done by the time we get back. But we're sending everything to money committees, and those have to be out the following week, which is why I kind of hoped for us to be able to get them out this week. So that we could give them a little bit longer period of time to look at these I believe they're going to have to go to both ways and means and appropriations. So the 12th to get policy. One week. That's one week. Okay, I thought, I thought you said, okay, yeah. Yeah, I keep forgetting our week off. Yeah. So there's anything you need for me to try to turbo charge community schools. Let me know. And yes, there's that. And the others, I know that we're going to wait on literacy and I know that we're going to wait on 92. Anything else. Thank you everybody.


Welcome to this Information Services Today webinar on today's Core Information Services. This webinar addresses content from Part 3, Information Services, Engaging, Creating, and Collaborating with Technology, specifically focusing on Chapters 11, 12, and 13. This webinar is part of a 10 webinar series representing the diverse authors and topics of the second edition of my book, Information Services Today, an Introduction. As the editor, I am thrilled to be presenting this webinar series in conjunction with my textbook, Information Services Today, an Introduction. Hearing directly from the contributing authors as they reflect and share their insight on today's information landscape is a unique opportunity to glean from their expertise, both the opportunities and challenges that lie on the horizon. In his article, Why Libraries Matter More Than Ever in the Age of Google, John Palfre states that the library as an institution has been fundamental to the success of our democracy. Libraries provide access to the skills and knowledge necessary to fulfill our roles as active citizens and libraries also function as essential equalizing institutions in our society. Part 3, Information Services, Engaging, Creating, and Collaborating via Technology highlights the various roles both in person and behind the scenes that guide users through the information seeking process. The roles information professionals perform in providing information and technology literacy instruction to assist the user are also explored. The concept of user-centered design that takes the user's experience into account is also presented as are the models of the hyperlink library, creation culture, and makerspaces. In this webinar, Chapter 11 kicks off the section with a chapter devoted to reference services. Chapter 12 addresses the complex issues of metadata and cataloging, and Chapter 13 tackles the difficult issues of curation and preservation. Of tremendous value to this book are its contributing authors. These authors were specifically chosen for their expertise, passion, and commitment, not only to the field of information science, but also to the professional development of tomorrow's information leaders. I would like to now introduce the panel of authors for this webinar. Joanna Toonan is an adjunct professor at San Jose State University and the University of Maryland University College and serves as a dissertation chair for librarians and instructional designers in Nova Southeastern University's EDD program. She is the author of Chapter 11, Information Intermediation and Reference Services. Mary Bolan is a professor and catalog and metadata librarian at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln Libraries. She's also an instructor at the School of Information at San Jose State University where she teaches courses in cataloging and metadata. She is the author of Chapter 12, Metadata, Catalogging, Link Data, and the Evolving ILS. Catherine Skinner is the executive director of Edutopia, a not-for-profit educational organization that builds networks and collaborative communities to help cultural, scientific, and scholarly institutions achieve greater impact. She is also a founding program director for the Metadata Cooperative, a community owned and community governed digital preservation network with more than 15 member institutions in three countries. Catherine is the author of Chapter 13, Analog and Digital Curation and Preservation. There are six key themes for the second edition of Information Services today in introduction. Chapters 11, 12, and 13 address four of those key themes. These chapters all provide an overall state of the field beginning with the history of the information organization and key influencers to forecasting future trends and issues that will require information professionals to remain forward thinking. They also address how libraries and information centers will remain valuable entities in their communities, but to thrive they will need to remain creative, innovative, and technologically advanced. Additionally, they address new competencies, roles, and opportunities for information professionals. And finally, they address challenges and key issues in the field and for the sustainability and essentialness of the information organization. So Joanna, Mary and Catherine, what is your interpretation of these themes and how did they specifically relate to your chapter's content? Joanna, let's begin with you. So let's take a look at recent changes in reference services. These services reached a tipping point a few years ago in a number of areas and those changes have been consolidated since that time. For example, many libraries have weeded or moved print reference resources to their circulating collections to make room for other types of services as the move to using digital reference tools and bundled subscriptions has accelerated. Similarly, the method of providing reference services continued to evolve from providing from being provided at a traditional reference desk to multiple service point models that range from consolidating services at one service desk providing tiered services and offering reference services using increasing variety of modalities on one hand to consortial arrangements on the other hand that offered 24 seven reference services. We have also seen more libraries including their library staff in the provision of reference services, particularly in public libraries. Thus, there's been a move from offering just in case to just in time reference services. But not least the ability of users to locate information online has resulted in the continued transition of of patrons from you from asking questions about how to find information to asking about how to do things. For example, users are interested in getting help help with everything from how to download ebooks to to their Kindles and iPads using tools such as the Libby app and how to use 3D printers and makerspace tools on one hand to learning how to access and manipulate data sets on the other. Thus, we're seeing a continued shift from a focus on knowledge acquisition to knowledge creation. Thank you very much. Let's hear from you, Mary. Um, I would say that the four key themes I could identify from my chapter that I feel are linked to. I hope maybe all the other issues in the book and in library and information science in general would be the first one is standards. And I think that as a catalog and metadata librarian as a librarian in general. This has been clear to me, maybe for almost the last 40 years now that the key to bibliographic control to discovery to cataloging to creating metadata that can be shared is adhering to a shared standard. And that's a very complex proposition to come up with a standard that people can understand. They're willing to share. They're willing to adhere to and that they buy into as a means of delivering good consistent discovery data. It's often described as a phenomenon that started maybe after the US Civil War in the late 19th century, the cataloging codes and other sorts of standards began to emerge. That began to be more and more broadly shared throughout the cataloging community and the two goals of that standard have always been location and collocation. In other words, you should be able to find a known item. You should be able to bring things together by author title or subject. So adhering to those standards creating those standards continuously revising those standards requires deep and continuing and changing expertise in metadata standards systems and practices. And it requires all people involved in those processes to commit to the idea of continuous change continuous learning continuous adaptation. And of course continuous cleanup because once you have left one standard behind, you know, you've got some legacy data. And then the last thing I would say about that is this is closely tied to user experience and it demands from everyone involved in cataloging and metadata and related activities that they cooperate collaborate communicate with their colleagues in other areas and with patrons as well to help create the best and broadest and most universal successful user experience that is linked to rich accurate metadata in a very general sense. So that is my, that's my thoughts for the moment on those. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mary. And Catherine, what are your thoughts about the themes. Why why curation and preservation matters. And I want to start with just defining what is curation and preservation. So one of the best definitions that I've come across over the years is from the digital curation center in the UK. And what they say is that it's the series of managed activities that are necessary to ensure access to materials for as long as necessary. So I want you to note a couple of things here first that key phrase managed activities, which is absolutely the heart of curation and preservation. So having ongoing planned and executed activities that are that are genuinely intended to ensure that there's long term access access to content is what digital preservation and curation is all about. But I also want to go one or two steps beyond that definition to think about why we preserve. And so you'll see two quotes that I have listed on this slide, one of which says those who don't remember the pastor condemn to relive it. So even when you've got good historical records we often forget the past and suffer the consequences and one function of preservation is to at least provide the raw materials that show where we've been and what we've done as a culture. And then the second one is that we stand on the shoulders of giants. So today's innovations always depend on yesterday's discoveries and the more that we know and can discover about what we've already done. The more quickly we can build solutions to today's project problems. So, you know, overall in today's kind of fast paced future oriented world where things are continually changing Mary Bowen was just talking about this. You need the access and past as an imperative part of innovation and action today we have to be able to remember and build upon what came before. So for me one of the key components of preservation and the thing that really makes it so relevant in today's world is that preservation is really about access. So information managers of all types, librarians archivists technologists and curators in lots of different contexts are really preserving content so that people who are living today and people who will be living in the future can use it. And that's arguably becoming more possible than it ever has before because of the speed and bandwidth of information in digital form. So to wrap up this piece in today's information service professions you see both the need for and also the impact of curation and preservation everywhere you look. So in libraries archives and museums for sure but also in banks and legal firms and architecture firms and every other business type you can think of. So information science needs are growing across many industry types and you all the students who are listening to this are going to be poised to really take advantage of that in your own careers. Thank you so much Catherine. I really like what you had to say about about the connection to access. And really I think you could say that all three of your topics really are focused on access for the user for the past for the current for the future and providing it making content accessible through the metadata and through a reference. I wonder if you have any of you have any further comments or like to ask each other any questions or further observations that you may have. Well, Sandy, I would just say that I agree strongly with what you just said which is I was struck by Johanna and Catherine you know coming before and after me that how interrelated all the things we're talking about are and that discovery access preservation. There's there's so interrelated that I hope it encourages us all to keep talking to each other. Thank you. Anybody else have anything more. I couldn't tell if you're just talking or not. What I'll say is just that I loved hearing Mary Boland talk about the kind of continuous cleanup that is required today. I think it's one of the things and I look at it a lot in the digital realm especially but that need for continuously going back and cleaning up what we've already done is something that I think is is a theme across information that we wish wasn't true, but is and always will be likely. I guess I would add from the reference perspective that that the contributions of libraries are just part of the bigger picture now. And so from a reference perspective it's trying to provide users with not only library resources but all the connect them with all those other resources that are out there as well. Great. Thank you. Let's move on to director attention now to today's information landscape. The first edition of this book came out three years ago. And as you know the field of we've just been talking the field of library and information sciences and constant flux. So what are some of the key changes as they relate to your chapters content that have occurred since the first edition came out three years ago. We'll start with you Joanna. Okay. Well, from a perspective of reference services, I think because of the advent of the web has meant that traditional reference desk is no longer our users so gateway to information reference librarians are working hard to reach out and identify community requirements and gaps and services that need to be addressed. For public libraries this has meant finding ways to address underserved populations ranging from the economically disadvantaged and homeless to immigrant population seniors teens and more. For example, one way that my own public library has met local needs in 2017 was by providing almost 4000 meals to youth in conjunction with the USDA's summer food service program on a related note. Libraries are playing an important role in addressing the digital divide for decades but libraries are also finding new ways to address community needs. The development of innovative technology libraries such as the do space and Omaha, Nebraska, rather than offering access to print or ebooks this technology library provides the community with access to cutting edge technologies, software applications and training by would be entrepreneurs in the Omaha community. This helps bridge the digital divide and new and innovative waves. Academic and school libraries address the research needs of their students. And one important method is by providing students the information literacy training needed on how to locate evaluate and ethically use information. This is needed to help students learn how to identify and avoid using fake news that is being disseminated on the web. The concepts of media literacy and critical literacy that promote social justice also get addressed through the use of information literacy tools such as ACRLs frameworks for information literacy for higher education. Thank you very much. Let's hear from you, Mary. This has been and this is a very exciting and almost turbulent time in cataloging and metadata. Five years ago, we implemented a new set of cataloging rules, RDA, which is resource description and access that did not cause the kind of upheaval in the catalog in the database that some previous systems have caused, but nevertheless, paves the way for some really big changes. And Catherine, you're so right about the legacy data, the need to migrate, clean up, clean up, clean up all the time that we have to really kind of embrace that. So what RDA is going to lead to is the implementation of bib frame, which is a linked data model for cataloging data in which we won't have discrete records in a database, but we will have pieces of data linked together. And that requires a great deal of precision and understanding to express relationships between pieces of data. At the same time, I think in the world of the ILS and the library database, we're moving beyond just what we would have called cataloging mark data to harvest or include in some sort of discovery layer. It seems far beyond just what sits on a, you know, a shelf or a virtual shelf to things like the institutional repository image collections, thematic research collections, encoded texts and so on, and the real challenge and the real fun, in my opinion, to us is doing that harmonization and cleanup and the achievement of interoperability, which is what standards are for it's what they help achieve. So at the same time, I don't know, thinking big, trying to include all the patrons like you were saying Johanna all the underserved communities all the different kinds of people. So in devising a standard, adhering to a standard, moving forward with standards. We have challenges both from the data and user experience point of view. And so there I that those are my remarks on that. Thank you so much very Catherine what about you. Sarah so yeah things are constantly in flux as both Johanna and Mary have said and that's certainly the case in curation and pure and preservation, and really physical preservation and analog preservation continue to experience minor changes over time. But we've got established methods that that address most of our analog content types, and that's certainly not to say that all problems are solved by any stretch. As you'll see if you read for example in the section that that that's in my chapter on audio visual materials. But most of the territory has been mapped at least in physical property preservation and we know a lot about analog materials including what temperatures we need to have and what humidity levels work for different material types and what threats are most serious whether you're talking about vinegar syndrome for film or brittle book syndrome for paper. But in the digital, it is a swirling cyclone of chaos, we're more and more aware of how much is endangered or already lost so that's a big change in the last three years where we're getting more savvy about what we're losing. We're also getting more sophisticated at actually doing digital preservation and you can see on the right hand side of the slide. A lot of those pieces that are out there now that are components in our preservation toolkit, if you will. The content types that we're paying attention to are what I see the most changes in at a at a rapid pace. So for example just to highlight one of the ones that I mentioned here three years ago we couldn't possibly have predicted that one of the hottest areas of activity was going to be the archiving of federally funded data, especially things like climate data and other content bodies that have come under threat of disappearance due to changes in our political leadership. So scientists, concerned citizens, librarians, archivists, technologists, students, faculty, lots of different fields. There have been these kind of grassroots efforts that have come up in a mass digital preservation movement when it wasn't driven by libraries necessarily but certainly has been supported by it. And that's one of the many, you know, very important things that are happening today. But again, we could have never predicted that citizen driven preservation work back three years ago. And then the conclusion of what my thoughts are in this section is that the hot areas of work, you know, just like the content types are changing and morphing every time, we see areas of work that are changing significantly in the last three years. So digital forensics just a point to one is it started out as an area of criminal investigation. And now the tools that that have been used for a long time to stabilize and examine hard drives and media types in these kind of sensationalized criminal justice e-ways are being used by librarians and archivists to make sure that we can deal with the onslaught of born digital content and media types that we're dealing with in archives today. Thank you so much Catherine. That was really interesting to hear about some of the big changes that have been happening actually for all of your areas. Did you have any more thoughts or comments about the changes that we've been seeing and the rapid amount of evolution that we're seeing in terms of meeting user needs and managing content in different ways? I would have to say that from a reference perspective on one hand we're seeing patrons coming to the reference desk less frequently to ask for help because patrons can find their own information so easily. On the other hand, when I talk about the skills that reference librarians will need, I think one of the things we really need to be able to do is have the skill sets to find all that information that's out there that a simple Google search will not do. And I don't think that patrons always think to come and ask us for that because if they can't find it on Google, they sort of don't think it's there sometimes. Well, and I like Catherine, what was your phrase like a swirling cyclone of chaos, something like that. I think that's true. It really is. Yeah, we're encountering that in every area of LIS and certainly it's interesting from a metadata point of view when we look at digital objects and I think one interesting thing about digital preservation or digital archiving and metadata is the end of separation between the object and the metadata. Absolutely. It's not like book is here, catalog card is here or whatever, you know, in the olden days. Now it's really one thing all in one place together. Yeah. Great. Thank you. So now let's direct our attention to the future. What trends or emerging issues will impact the field of library and information science as it relates to your top chapter's topic. Joanna. Okay, so when we look at what the future will bring for reference librarians, I believe that the emerging trends and issues will include the challenge of identifying and selecting new technologies that can be sustained and are scalable while identifying and eliminating reference services that are no longer needed. For example, reference librarians will have to evaluate new tools for designing and delivering reference services and library training while deciding which current services are no longer needed. Those decisions will be driven in large part by the new information needs that are identified on a community by community basis. Additionally, reference librarians will need to continue to advocate for privacy and open access to information as problems with fake news continue to escalate in this post truth era. The need to protect access by making good quality knowledge open and accessible to all is becoming an increasingly urgent issue as and we saw that with the issue on government data. For example, as a result, it's important to advocate for solutions that can address the distortions and false words for information provided by a wide range of web services. For example, reference librarians can fry can help students critically assess predatory open access journals that are providing misinformation on topics such as medical breakthroughs. And similarly reference librarians can help faculty identify hijacked open access journals that are soliciting article submissions using the author pays model. Throughout this process librarians can advocate for the scholarly publishing of journals that has gone through the kind of rigorous peer review process that will ensure reliable information is openly and freely available to all communities. I believe that these issues will offer reference librarians increasing opportunities to collaborate with faculty researchers and publishers in tomorrow's publishing landscape. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. So let's move on to Mary. Okay, I guess when I think about the future. I would go back to something I mentioned earlier which is the revolutionary change that's about to happen in the framework for discovery for metadata for cataloging and so on. When we leave the mark format behind, you know, after about 50 years or more. When we implement the frame we moved into that link data environment that is going to create a really positive revolution because it's going to allow much a much richer discovery environment. And as I was saying previously it moves us beyond just the catalog the thought of just the catalog, which we've always thought of as our mark database, and is pretty print centric, even after all these decades. So as we are moving into these new kinds of discovery these new frameworks for discovery. It certainly demands that we're going to learn at a fast pace and continuously. We're going to be looking at different sources of metadata than we have now many other, you know, many more and varied sources of metadata. So I think it leads us to see that the library organization is going to continue to evolve but maybe is going to undergo a little more drastic or revolutionary change in the wake of these radical changes in how we do acquisitions cataloging and control and so on. I mean those old those old fashioned names that we still may use, but how we move into this 21st century discovery environment I think will have a really strong and positive and beneficial effect on how the library is organized as well. Thank you Catherine what are your thoughts. I wish I had a crystal ball. I'm not quite sure what we're going to see if I've learned anything from the digital revolution especially I know not to overpredict, but I'll describe a couple of things that I hope we see and then a couple of things that I fear we're going to see. So on the hope side of the equation, I really hope that we're going to see more blended approaches to preservation. So for example one project that I've been involved in this year at education Institute in partnership with the digital public library of America has been focused on increasing access to newspapers by marginalized communities. To do that the end goal of this project is really to expand access to LGBT newspapers and African American newspapers, and then we'll be moving on to Arab American newspapers etc and bodies of content that really have been attended to less in libraries and archives for a wide range of systemic reasons. To do this what we're doing is we're identifying what contents out there in thousands of libraries and archives around the nation and then what forms it's in is it physical is it microfuge is it digital and we're tracking the content the condition of those content bodies wherever we can. And then we're using that data not to say okay so we need to digitize everything and don't worry about this paper anymore, but instead we're using that data to say what contents and most risk of loss. And what are the reasons for that loss and how can we make sure that there are copies held in multiple formats not just in digital format, but in multiple formats. And so that kind of blended approach I think is really really important and I'm hoping that we're going to see more and more of that. Now on the fear side of the equation I really fear the increase in cloud based infrastructures that are supporting our digital content and that's not because there's anything inherently wrong with the cloud. The cloud is just a big server farm that's been branded beautifully by a few commercial partners. What I fear about the cloud is our over reliance on a small number of businesses, especially one Amazon, which now holds a tremendous market share of information in the cloud. And so that kind of putting all your eggs in one basket is something that I think we're going to be wrestling with a lot in the next five, 10 years. Thank you very much. Such interesting times that we live in it'll be very interesting to see how these things shape up. So, do you have any further observations, Mary Joanna and Catherine. I think one thing I would observe is this this has been really fascinating in the synergies, but among all the ideas I mean I feel like these three chapters and the authors present and the ideas that that we have talked about. There's so much crossover there's so much interaction there. And I think again it calls upon us to be open to communicate to consider new ideas to reconsider old ideas you know to to really examine what we do what we believe what we plan. And I'm sure if you picked any three chapters from your book that there would be there would be interesting synergies but I think this has been really fascinating in that way. Great thank you Mary. Okay, I agree with that and just very quickly say that I think, you know, one of the things that we're seeing in information sciences is much more crossover between the the partnerships and the need for different voices within the library so where you used to have very strong departmental lines, a lot of those are giving way and a lot of the rigid lines around particular job functions are also giving way. And so just echoing what Mary saying I think that that synergy between, you know, different elements whether it's you know reference and metadata and preservation or whether it's, you know, other functions I think you're seeing more and more of that synergy in libraries today and will be in the future. Great. Thank you. Let's move on now. We've addressed the changes of the past few years and some of the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead. But at the core of the information landscape are the people who work in these organizations who provide services to the communities that they serve. So that leads us to focus on today's information professional. What advice do you have for the new information professional to meet the needs of tomorrow's information landscape? And based on your area of expertise, what are some of the key competencies that information professionals will need to succeed in meeting the needs of their communities and the organizations that they serve? Joanna. Okay, so first of all, I think the changing role of reference librarians are resulting in changing job titles as well. As a result, librarians who serve the information needs of the public may no longer actually be called reference librarians. For example, we're seeing job titles ranging from distance librarians and liaison librarians to public service librarians and information service librarians. However, no matter what the job titles are, librarians who help patrons learn and acquire information will need competencies that include having strong interpersonal people-oriented skills that have a high-tech, high-touch approach to service. They also need to be able to use reference 2.0 social media technologies and possess instructional skills that can be used for promoting information literacy and creating effective webinars and online tutorials. Instructional design and graphic design skills are also a plus. Additionally, reference librarians will need to have specialized skill sets used to locate the kinds of information that cannot be located with the simple Google search, as I mentioned in the previous section. And we also need to have web design skills that can be used for creating effective web presences, online subject guides, pathfinders and more. And on a related note, librarians will need to have to be able to evaluate and assess reference services, reference collections and user needs in order to ensure that the effectiveness of reference services, but also to provide the data needed to collect that demonstrates and quantifies the value of reference services being created for the users. And last but not least, reference librarians need to possess the skills required to market library services and reach out to the communities being served. Thus, no matter what the job title is, the user needs or the reference services and how they may change, it's important for reference librarians to keep up with the new trends and technologies so that libraries will remain relevant and effective in the 21st century. Thank you, Joanna. And Mary, what do you think the competencies are that information professionals need? I guess the first thing I would say is maybe I'll just steal Joanna's list because I, you know, I think the things you said, apply to everyone in our very, very solid and, you know, very necessary. I think people have recognized that it's the soft skills as well as the expertise that everyone has to have. I think one thing I would advise new librarians about informational professionals about is metadata is an organization wide and beyond the organization activity and issue. So it's not confined to one room, one database, one activity. It's a very broad topic and I think we should be willing to give our input and be part of the conversation across the organization and beyond. Going along with that, I think it's absolutely essential that we have to talk with our colleagues, be able to do that, be able to listen to them to users of all kinds. And we've talked about underserved populations today, which I think has been very interesting. Who is our public? You know, are we all things to all people? How can we reconcile our mission with, I don't know, with who we think the public is? And then maybe most important is that sense of curiosity and excitement about learning and about change that we must learn new things all the time. We need to have that curiosity and that excitement about learning and that willingness and ability to say, okay, that was then this is now on to the next thing. Thank you, Mary. Catherine, what about you?  The thing that I'll add is that curation and preservation are just ubiquitous at this point. So it's not just a library, museum or archive thing. It's also there in corporate environments and nonprofit environments of all types. So when I'm advising students in information management about what areas are likely to be most fruitful for a career, this is definitely the kind of curation and preservation space I think is one that has a lot of different facets that can be mined in different ways. And one of the things that is so much fun right now as a librarian in this space is that all of a sudden in a way that has not been true in the past, I can talk to anybody about what I do and I can get it across to them. And so the competencies that you're going to be developing in curation and preservation spaces are going to map on to your personal digital archiving because every single one of us is dealing with these backlogs of photographs and music libraries that have come unhinged because it was first iTunes and then something else. You know, I mean we've got all of these digital problems in our own lives that make it really easy all of a sudden for libraries and librarians and archivists to talk to parents to friends to the general public about the challenges that that libraries face right now and why it costs so much and why these infrastructures are so important in today's world. And so in terms of ways to get started just very briefly. If you want to get started in this area, it's one of the fresher areas in libraries and archives and museums, etc. And so volunteer just reach out and you will find people who will very quickly be willing to work with you and you know embrace you as part of what we need in the next generation of libraries. Much, and I really, really liked what you talked about in terms of how some of the issues that we are dealing within our professional lives are getting easier to communicate or have other people understand because we are really grappling with these kinds of challenges in our own personal experiences. Mary, Joanna and Catherine, do you have any further comments on this topic about I thought there were some really good synergies about the need for the ongoing learning and the need for embracing that change and that Mary brought up. I think those are really great great points. One thing I would like to add is I think it's the points been made already I think it was Mary that talked about the need for communication between different departments. I saw that in my own institution where we didn't really move forward effectively until there was better communication across the fields instead of everybody being in their own silos. So I think that is a critical part for for libraries to move forward and to integrate more with all of the other resources that are out there. Thank you. Yeah, I'd agree with that and I've pushed it up another level and say that we also beyond just the institution we need to be working more closely together at the field level and then across the information fields so libraries archives and museums. The more coordination that we can build across the, the many different facets and styles and work that goes on in these spaces. I think that faster will be able to actually meet the needs of an extended public, you know, across those fields. And you know that feedback loop is a real essential part of assessment of library programs and services, but it can also be a less formal kind of assessment kind of data gathering in which we really do try harder to understand the individual goals of different functions or different services in libraries and information organizations. Thank you. Really great points. So I'd like to thank Joanna tune in Mary Bolin and Catherine Skinner for joining us today in this webinar on today's core information services. I'm very grateful to all of you for the insights and advice that you shared in this webinar, and for your contribution to information services today and introduction to the listener thank you for joining us. And a deeper understanding of the changes and challenges and opportunities within the field of library and information science and for more information please check out the supplement on the online supplement that's available to you. And I want to thank you all again.