for about five until we've got a couple of people in. Okay. You guys excited? I'm very excited. I was born excited. It's been like a week since we've actually done this. A week! How much can happen in a week on the internet? People can get banned from Twitter. You know, stuff like that can happen. No, nothing, okay. One, two, three. Man, YouTube really wants me to watch this video called Why I Don't Like Ninja because it's recommending it to me twice. Why do they not like Ninja? Ninja is in general or like a show? No, like the Twitch streamer. Oh. Yeah, what's wrong with Ninja? He seems like a nice guy. I don't know.  Oh, yeah. And then people get to know me and then what do they say? I was right. Beautiful, really. He's not like his Twitter profile at all. Venom and unbridled comedy when? I mean, that Venom isn't quite. Oh, yeah. So I didn't even get to tell you guys. Venom is like a full-on horror movie at the beginning.   And then it's like, what? Doing this now? Doing this?  And he's like, oh, man, I don't want to do that like falling over and hitting people in the meantime. You're just like, hmm, bit strange.  It's like, what am I? It's confusing. So yeah, that's what people mean when they talk about like the tonal mess. I'm not sure. A lot of people are saying that Tom Hardy was the problem as in like, he's playing the character really funny while the film itself isn't. I'm not sure where they're coming from with that because it's like, he's not the only one making jokes. Let's put it that way. But I'd have to watch it again. But yeah, I've told people like I don't have any passion to actually cover it. I came out of the cinema just like, that was a thing. Like, yes. Because I'm not at least like graphically eat someone in the movie.   It is.  I think so that, you know, you get some satisfaction. Is Venom knowing for eating heads? I've never actually never seen anything with Venom in it before. That's the thing. I haven't read comics or I mean, I saw Spider-Man 3, but I don't think anybody's going to be saying that that's a great interpretation of Venom. That's the other thing. A lot of people are asking, is it better or worse than Spider-Man 3? And I was just like, how can it be? Well, well, I can't say that anymore. I was about to say how can it be worse than Spider-Man 3, but then I realized half the movies this year are worse than Spider-Man 3. Well, I was going to say it. I feel like for whatever this is worth, I would rather watch Spider-Man 3 than Venom right now. At least Spider-Man 3 has like a couple of good scenes. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Venom is best comedy of the year. I don't know. The Predator is quite good competition for that. Deadpool 2. But that's an actual comedy. But yeah, so Venom, not very good, but also not bad enough that I felt like I needed to do a video at all because there's kind of some stuff in there that I thought was amusing. So much stuff that doesn't make sense though.  But yes, I wouldn't recommend anybody who likes Venom from the comics to go see this. It's probably going to be frustrating.  There's, does anyone know who Carnage is? I'm vaguely aware of Carnage.  And then Venom's like, okay, man. And they go in and it's like some guy who's like, yeah, he requested to speak to you of all people. I don't know why that sort of thing is very like silence of the lambs prison style thing.  And it's so silly. He just goes like, you know, Eddie, when I get released there's going to be carnage that it cuts to the credits. And he's like, oh, so I guess that guy's carnage. Tune in for Carnage.  It's cute. But yeah, I have no idea how Venom's doing in terms of actual money or whatever. But I seriously didn't even know it was out yet. So that should say a lot. Well, I mean, it's not like they needed this whole Lady Gaga thing going on to try and like make it even worse. But it looks like that. There's this weird campaign where those people are like badly rating Venom to prop up the Lady Gaga movie that's coming out at the same time. Oh, there's a few articles about this and it's like an actual thing where people have been reviewing the film without seeing it and trying to push the Lady Gaga film instead. It's just like, okay, it's strange. So yeah, people do people realize that one film doesn't have to do badly for another film to do well? Yes, it does. Talk about demographics like the people who are seeing Venom versus the people who are seeing the Lady Gaga film is like, yeah, I'm sure everyone who watched Venom is like a hardcore Lady Gaga. Is this a completely opposite group to people?  Not Lady Gaga and Venom fans. I mean, because yeah, if it was like another superhero movie or whatever, it would be like, oh, that kind of makes sense. But nope. Can you picture a single person who go go to the cinema thinking, I'm gonna I'm going to watch the the Venom film. And although that, you know, it's a tough choice. Now Lady Gaga's on the table, you know. So yeah, if anybody was curious, it's bad, but I'm not planning to cover it. The next thing we should probably just probably have mentioned, I suppose you can say whatever you want about this wolf. But the dishonor wolf has lost his Twitter permanently. Yeah, I I'm perma banned. It's so sad. I was the shooting. It was a couple of two. I sent them to Fringy. Let me bring them up real quick because they were super not bad tweets. They were actually like, you'd think that they'd just become in sense. On Twitter first. Yeah. Well, the first one is are you shitting me? Ford was the one making the I should say I was banned because I defended Kavanaugh. There we go. It'll be fun once he's confirmed and everyone pisses and moans. Yeah. So the first one is are you shitting me? Ford was the one making the claims you retard. She has the burden of proof not Kavanaugh. You really expect them to disprove claims. You have no evidence for to prove them in the first place.   I've called people worse. I know you on Twitter too.  So I said maybe due process is a good thing. And I got banned. So there we go. Can't use Twitter. Well, there's your due process. Well, yeah, I mean lesson Lin Wolf. You only say mundane things on Twitter. That's what happens when you defend Republicans on Twitter. Someone even said in the chat, well, for you hating on the Jews again, it's like, no, I hated on the Jews and they didn't ban me for that. I mean, defending Kavanaugh. Like from what I understand of that story is ridiculous. Did you see it? There was a tweet that I would be a good way to. Yeah, rags. You responded to it on Twitter where someone was like, how do I tell my students that they're about to hire someone like him as a justice or whatever. And it's just like, tell them about due process. This is a thing we need. You can't just like God forbid we actually get to the point where it's just people say a thing and then it's true. That's really bad. There is literally no proof at all and her own witnesses are like, this party never happened. It's like, how is this even a thing? Believe women, believe survivors. Oh, right. I forgot about that. Yes. Wolf is permanently off Twitter. You'll never find him on there ever again unless you decide to make a new Twitter. Yeah, which I don't plan on doing because, well, at least not anytime soon because I've genuinely been like a little happier without having to look at Twitter all day. It's actually like weird. I can actually like pretend things are normal. I don't have to hear about people losing their minds over something Trump said. Oh, yeah, crazy. A nice break for you. And then the only other thing that we should probably mention is that the next e-fap, which just sounds so funny to keep saying is going to be about the TRO video. We're finally going to do that. It's been a while, but different reasons stream on my channel, man. YouTube's Borked. Yeah. Rise can't seem to fix it. So we're going to do it as an e-fap now, which by the way, for anybody who actually doesn't know because we never really say it, it stands for every frame of pause just in case anybody here. You should put it in the description. You should put it in the description because some people frame a pause episode. You know, I need to redo all the descriptions for all the older ones as well. I'm very lazy when it comes to my second channel because it's like my my TISM channel. So I like not having to do things on it. But yeah, I'll definitely get around to that. But that's what it stands for. The TISM doesn't come easy. So, yes, that'll be happening. It'll probably be the ridiculously longest one ever because the video is like an hour and 40 minutes. So 24 hour stream, guys. Yeah, we're doing it 24 hour stream for autism awareness, which brings us to the guest we have today. The wonderful cinema sins sins also known. Hi, I was going to say your actual human name, but fine. Just just interrupt me, dude. God, you make such a bad fist. Yes, anyway, how do you do, sir? I'm really good at bad first impressions. Yeah. Yeah. See, I'm not going to lie. I'm a bit more hungover of this than I'd like to be. But I think I'm going to have fun. Should be good. Do you want to?  I think it was the one before the last ones. We did movie Bob after that one, didn't we? I think so, yeah. It was the one that killed me. It was awful. It got like a major headache. So there was a... I made my video on Black Panther because I really thought the film was terrible. And cinema sins sins respond to... It's not just cinema sins, right?  And he decided to respond to mine, which I mean, you know, I'm all for it, but we weren't hugely impressed by it. And I think what is it you said you want to do now, sort of make a video, sort of giving your perspective on Black Panther in relation to my videos?  It was essentially... Because I was on a pretty tight time schedule, which I've now just realized is the reason that the video was bad.  It made me make a bad video.  Whenever a new film comes out, I'm like, well, I better get this done within a week. And that's still considered extremely late compared to like, you know, Angry Joe and Jeremy Johns and all the people who get it out like day zero. I had to rush to get my Jurassic World 2 video out because you got yours out two weeks before mine. You say that. But that wasn't my fault.   Well, yeah, but I had to fight with Zephyr too. We both had to fight with Zephyr. How did that go with Zephyr anyway? Whatever became of that exactly? They just dropped their claims when I... Rags, when you emailed them, I just... Even though I wasn't at 100K at that point, I just took the email address from YouTube that you showed in your screenshot, typed it in, and even though I didn't have 100K, they still helped me. And they looked at... They went to Zephyr and they were like...  Yeah, so I contacted them and they sent me an email telling me what they said to Zephyr. And they basically said, we don't really see the legitimacy here. Can you clarify it? And they never replied. And then they just dropped the claim and YouTube reinstated my video. Ugh, so lame. And what happened for you, Mahler, with your...  It finally worked, apparently. I was convinced there was someone manually doing it, but... Well, it says if it's manual or not, isn't it? Wasn't it... It doesn't, didn't it say manual? No, it's way too fast to be manual. They'll manually tell you not... Now I can't remember because... Well, it says it was manual. Well, yeah, because it says if it's either automatic or if it is manual. Yeah, so what happened was I got hit with the music one and then I messed with the music enough or at least what I thought was enough and then I got hit again. So then I took it out entirely and replaced it with the stupid, like, flute version. And then I got hit for just visual content ID on something from the cam vision and I was like, okay, so I removed that. And then, like, the second it was uploaded, it was a manual claim when there was only screenshots. I believe this could be wrong. I can't quite remember because it was a while ago. So then I got rid of every single part that had any kind of cam footage in it just and tried to recreate visuals.  And I just had a clip of a monkey putting on a hat instead because I was just like, I don't know what else I could do for this. I eventually got past and it stayed past.  But with Wolf, he would have had to have chopped up the trailers to like nine seconds apiece and put them out of order, I think, in order to get past any bot claims.  Like, that's really silly because if someone reuploads a trailer that literally benefits the people that own the trailer, does it not? You'd think, but I guess they think that Wolf's channel is trying to make money off reselling trailers. I don't even have, I didn't even monetize those videos. I didn't have monetized, I didn't even get monetization to work until like a month ago. I've literally had a video take down because I've had a trailer playing one quarter speed in the background as I talk over it and I don't even use the whole thing. It's the BBC knows nothing about fair use, but... Yeah, literally every content creator from like, you know, zero subscribers to 100 billion, like they all, everyone deals with this. And it's all it ever is a game. You're just trying to figure out how to outplay the bots. But if you have manual takedowns, you just fucked. You have to get like a partnership or something. Yes, anyway. And the bots, that's the thing about the bots for YouTube is like they're wrong 98% of the time, which makes you wonder. Well, yeah, because like they often don't restate their claims and they'll often have YouTube be like, yeah, that's not fair. And you're like, Yeah, like almost all my videos are confirmed to be to be good to go. But I mean, like the ones I lose are very rare. You know, it's not that they aren't monetized in the end. It's that, you know, 80% of the views come and go before it can get monetized again. It's annoying for all of us. But yeah, I was going to say we can, I figure we can begin with, I think Black Panther is almost like to the point of terrible where I would put it in the lowest tier. I think we rewatched it. And I would say that it's like, I have trouble choosing between it's Thor the Dark Wild and Iron Man 3. They're like my most hated MCU films. Wolf, what was your take on it? I can't remember. Well, when we watched it the second time, I disliked it even more than I did walking out of the theater. And I'd say, yeah, I'm right there with you. I'd also add Hulk to that list. Oh yeah, I haven't seen Hulk in so long. Like, I forgot what happens in the film. It's, I don't blame you. It's a really forgettable film. And what about you, Rags? I haven't seen it from start to finish nonstop, but I've seen a lot of clips, a lot of clips and things. And what I've seen has not been very good. And finally, what about you, Jay? I think it needs more Rhino milk. Ah, you have to own the meme. It's better that way. But I'm assuming you'd put it in like high, high rankings compared to other Marvel films. I really enjoy watching it. I'm not going to pretend it's flawless, but I think it's a really enjoyable watch. I think, I also think it's like the room. Oh, whoops. I just sent you an invite by accident. Ignore that.  I quite enjoy it for that, but it's not, it's not a masterpiece, I would say. I mean, there's definitely good stuff in it, in my opinion, but there's some not so great stuff in there as well. So like, what would you say is your biggest issue with it, Wolf? Oh, man, where do I begin? I just think it's really dumb. I can't really narrow down one single issue because the writing is pretty terrible throughout, but there's just like some parts that are like, okay, that's dumb, like the whole tribal fight. That's a bit of bad writing that contradicts the world, the world building in general is horrendous, but then there's other lines like, kill mongers, throw me in the ocean so I can be with my ancestors. That was retarded. I don't know if you want to contend that, but like most people pointed out, his ancestors are Wakandans. Wasn't his, wasn't he half Wakandan? I'm not sure if I'm going, all right, I'm not. All right, his dad did data local as far as I know. So technically speaking, I suppose his ancestors are everybody with his half ancestors.  Well, I mean, you know, that's actually beside the point, like, because technically speaking, we all came from one continent long ago. We're all African once you go back far enough.  It's awkward because of the fact that we, this made very clear that his, he's, all of this is motivated by what they did to his dad who's Wakandan and it's like, wait, Wakandans weren't, yeah, and that's another thing that Wakandans referring to white people as colonizers when Wakanda was not colonized at all. Kind of odd.  I guess, which means that they never actually, they chose not to do anything. And obviously that's a part of the film to be like, they made this mistake for ages and ages, which again, that sort of comes back to the whole trial by combat stuff. Like I really have trouble believing that across the eons of Wakandans since the Stone Age never had a leader that wanted to spread out. Because Killmonger is apparently the first dude who actually considers doing that, but to an extreme obviously. You see, I have no trouble with the idea of them having like a tradition of that ceremony where they take up, then I got, they ask if anyone wants to challenge for the throne. The only real issue I have with that is that when someone does challenge for the throne, they take it completely seriously. See, I would think it would be like, I would understand them still having tradition if it wasn't sort of a law-based thing. Like, I'm sure that the queen still has like ridiculous powers that if she's tried to use, everyone will be like, no. Is that she? She probably, there's probably some things she can do that if she did, we would be like, what the fuck? And we just didn't know it was an actual rule that hadn't been abolished yet, that's probably true. But like, the idea that they do it alone, there's a lot of ways to break down that part of it that just is so bizarre to me. Like, I'm trying to find a way to not sort of veer off into a different topic by accident because I'm trying to stick to that whole trial by combat thing, the... It's retarded! It's a little bit, it's like, if you're gonna chew, because there's the theory, right? I think you said in your response that they have someone for the fight and then that doesn't necessarily mean the person who fought becomes king. That was what I thought when I watched it. Like, that's not in the movie, but it's possible because my theory would typically be if you're gonna pick the person who's the strongest and best suited to win a trial by combat, they're probably typically not gonna be as suited to lead in a calm and collected fashion. Let's put it that way. I find it ridiculous that they never actually spread out as well, but you know what? Like, I'd probably rather refocus to the more important parts of the film, because if you take that sort of fantasy and just say, it just works that way, leave her alone. You're like, okay, so what story do they tell? And like, my biggest issue personally is probably Killmonger. I think he makes no sense in so many different ways. And it probably is amplified by the fact that he's adored online by a lot of people. Like... Yeah, that was a weird thing because I had the... I mentioned in a video when I was responding to PewDiePie's criticisms of the MCU or rather Marvel in general, but it was mainly the MCU. Because if you took it and applied it to all Marvel films, it didn't really fit. So he was saying, he was talking about how people idolized superheroes and that, and he thinks it's damaging because you can't actually get superpowers and he doesn't seem to think anything, like he seems to think that people just idolized superheroes for their superpowers and then they're gonna get disappointed when they can't actually get them. But that's a whole different thing. Did you find interesting that he's like so hell bent on basically being like, let's provide weapons to these people in these different parts of the world and then take over. And it's like, Killmonger is aware of the Avengers, right? Yeah. This won't be easy. You're gonna get flattened by Iron Man, obviously, several other people. And yeah, like that's one aspect. I suppose I'd rather start at the beginning, which is, what is it? Have you got an answer for what the secret is that everyone had to keep? How'd you mean? So they're like, he's like, why didn't you take the boy back? And then he's like, we had to maintain the lie. Yeah, they had to maintain the lie. What lie? What are they talking about? I assume they're talking about the secrecy of Wakanda, but I'm not really sure how it fits. Well, I was gonna say, wouldn't they kindly just take the boy and then... I don't see how that would reveal the secret. We have a few people going. Where did he go? That's the part that stopped me in the cinema, because as soon as that opening was shown, I was just like, oh, I wonder what the conclusion of that scene would have been. And then obviously they reveal it as the film goes on. And as soon as they made the realization that they left the boy, I was like, why the hell did they leave the boy? Let him find his dad executed on the floor. I was like, what? Why wouldn't they take the corpse? Why wouldn't... Oh, sir. There's a lot of stuff for the year. Because it's just, don't they talk about like how people are supposed to be given a proper burial at some point as well? I don't remember that. I might be mixing up two films. Who knows? I can drop that. The fact that they left him there and then the entire reasoning behind it from both his dad and from Forrest Whitaker is that they had to maintain the lie. They had to keep the secret. And then to Charles, it's like, you were wrong. And it's like, well, yeah, but I agree with you. But why did they do it? What were they wrong about? No, Siro, if they take him back to Wakanda, then people will go, oh, this boy's missing. You know, I bet there's a secret city somewhere in Africa. That's the immediate place they jump to. They're just like, that's it. I knew it. So yeah, there's that part of, and that's what creates Killmonger, right? So that's a huge issue for me. But then if we ignore that, Killmonger's like disappearance for an hour in the film. And we find out that he's doing it all so that he can get Claw, kill him and deliver him to Wakanda as a chip to get in sort of thing. That's what Killmonger's doing from the beginning of the film to the end, let's say. Or at least to the middle. So why didn't he do that to Claw immediately? Why did he allow him to get that weird bit of vibranium to then trade with Thingy? And he's not even involved in any of that bit, if you remember, like the car chase and stuff. Like Killmonger's just, what is he, what's Killmonger waiting for? Because it's like, Claw gets captured and that allows Killmonger to then kidnap him from them and take him.  It's like, why didn't you just do that in the beginning? I don't know. Maybe it's just what he was doing anyway. Just what he was up to. Because he could have been killed. If Killmonger was killed by Black Panther, that would have, no, sorry, not Killmonger. If Claw was killed by Black Panther in the car sequence and then taken back to Wakanda, that would have screwed over Killmonger's plan completely. See, if I had to essentially write a scene for the movie, like guess what is going on? I would say maybe Killmonger thinks that if he draws attention to Claw before he kills him, that the Wakandans will care more when they kill, because it's like they've dealt with Claw in the past, but if they make him like an immediate issue, if they make him sort of a headline and then he takes him out and brings him to Wakanda. I mean, maybe. That's one thing you could do, but I would definitely have put Killmonger in the car chase scene in some way to have him trying to puppeteer it in some way. Because the other angle is that somehow Killmonger knows that there is a faction in Wakanda that want Claw dead more than anything, like the guy from Get Out, he's like he's desperate to get Claw dead. Like, okay, how did Killmonger know that, first of all? And second of all, it's like the, if you had redone the film in a way that Killmonger was like, right, what I'm gonna do is set it up so that Claw can be captured and then stop Black Panther from being able to pull it off. So it humiliates him in Wakanda and then I come in with the victory, which I think would make more sense, but like that doesn't happen at all. Yeah, see, the thing is, I like Killmonger as a villain, but I like him more just because of his presence rather than anything else. I just think he sort of carries the scenes he's in. Do you like the swaying he was doing whenever he walked around? I did not notice that. I pitched on it with Wolf. Yeah, it's like he has to move his entire body from left to right with every single step he takes. A bit weird. Is this gonna be one of the things where I go back to watch the film and I can't unsee it? Maybe. I certainly noticed it. I know Wolf did, but... Yeah, so there's those elements. He was pretty lucky that he wasn't killed on the doorstep of Wakanda because they're very selective about that sort of thing. Then he was lucky that T'Challa actually accepted the trial by combat when there was really no benefit to him doing that. It was a very strange choice. I would like to just see the other version of the movie where T'Challa says no and he goes, oh, fuck, and that's the end. Yeah, that's right. There was a lot of little things that could happen that would have done that sort of thing. And then there's T'Challa losing to him despite using the standardized weapons for their culture that T'Challa should be basically have been learning about for his whole life, which was a bit odd to me. I understand that Killmongers, they trained whatever specialist person, but you'd think that he'd probably lose in that environment. Maybe, maybe not. That's not a huge issue compared, but... I mean, everything we've already covered sort of just destroys him as an element of a villain to me. I'm just like, yeah, none of that makes any sense. He's just here because he's here.   I mean, that's where he's the villain, right? Well, of course, that's a very villainous thing to say, but obviously, I think I say in my video, it's just like, why were people saying that this guy is like the greatest villain in Marvel MCU? That's like such a cartoonish thing to say, but like, we're going to destroy the entire... Doesn't he say we're going to rule it right?  Like, good luck, mate. Oh, no, that's truly, that's just, that's before, you know, kill everyone, then start ruling right. Yeah, yeah, we'll set our principles once we've killed all the other people.   I can't remember anything about that entire film, really. Exactly. I can remember Thor was on a train at one point and that was quite funny and that's about it. Yes, I believe that is a thing that happens. I can't remember. I actually watched that again within the last month that I've already forgotten all of it just to get a refresh, but whatever, it doesn't matter.  He's just not very good.  Let's put it that way. See, I think Killmonger was really exciting and I would take him over a sort of much duller villain that makes perfect sense any day. I might agree with that, like, but I'd still say, like, I'd still have to be honest and be like, yeah, it's still bad though. Like, I'd probably, maybe I'd enjoy it more but, because like my point overall is that Black Panther is poorly written. Like, as much fun you can get out of it. Like, yeah, sure, I wouldn't stop anybody. I personally was really bored watching Black Panther and then thinking about it started to frustrate me. That was my personal experience. Well, the first time I watched it, I did fall asleep. I have no comment on the film. I was just incredibly sleep-deprived. But, you know, maybe, maybe there's something there. So, I did have to go and re-watch it to, well, I re-watch any film that I'm talking about, but I did specifically realize when I was halfway through it, oh, shit, I haven't seen this part before. Oh, well. I fell asleep when I was first watching it right after Shatala died. If you skip the entire part with the car chase and the weird area where they trade the vibranium stuff, I think the movie still makes enough sense. You just have to, you know, fill in the part where they capture claw. And it probably would have been a bit more, like, do you remember the bit where the car gets exploded and like the girlfriend is on like the driver's seat and it so slowly slides across the road in a very, like, Looney Tunes fashion? Yeah. It's very odd. Like, it's the kind of thing where it's just like, huh. I was seeing that just kind of like thinking, hmm, someone made the decision that that should happen. Yeah. But anyway, if anyone else has anything to say, I was going to say, like, we can watch someone's actual video on, I guess, explaining why Black Panther has the best Marvel villain. We've covered Captain Midnight before. I've never been impressed with his videos, but I've already seen it too. What other videos has he made? The last one we did with him was he was defending Han Solo film. He was saying that it's not as bad as people are making out to be. It wasn't a great defense. In fact, we by the end of it agreed with a lot of his points because he criticized the film. Do you remember that? No. It's like one of the first e-faps or whatever. He basically like starts recognizing a bunch of flaws with Solo and he lists them all the row. We were just like, yep, yep. Oh, let me see. Was that the one where he like showed a picture of the two guys who are originally going to make Solo and then rags made a comment, something to the effect of, this looks like a younger version of me or something. I remember. Is that the one? Because I can remember every single word that Jared Genesis has ever spoken, but I can't remember what video that you're referencing. I mean, I don't know if that's indicative of the video, but let's maybe we'll just give this one a shot because I haven't actually seen this video yet, but I've been, we nearly watched this a couple of times just because I've always wanted to see a video explaining how Killmonger is awesome. But here we go, I guess. Black Panther. Let me tell you a story. Okay. It's about a young boy born into a royal family but raised in poverty. His father was murdered by his own brother, the king of a secretive, powerful nation. After being left behind, he was trained as a great warrior.  Finally, letting the rest of the world share in the wealth and life-changing technology that his uncle's family. Wow. Okay.  Take over. Look at the way he's done this. It's like a little halo. Yeah, good guy. He's just searching for justice. The way we, I like the generalization, right? So it's like he was left behind after the evil king killed his dad sort of thing. And it's like, yeah, but we have no reason for that to happen. And T'Chaka was actually a pretty good guy too from what we know in the MCU. It's just a confusing thing that he did. How dare you purple wash Killmonger right here?  I think he might have drawn these things himself.  Hey, come on.  Candle hair. Here's the thing. You can take any character, be they a villain or a hero and reduce them to the most basic possible explanation of their character and say that in general, it's good. Well, let's do it. But their depiction is everything. I'll see how long it takes for you guys to see who I'm talking about. But it was, let's say an old warrior who had seen... Kitty Garland. No. Who had seen the stagnation of his government and saw to overthrow a League of Assassins who were actively destroying his beloved civilization after an attempt at murdering... They attempted to assassinate him once they found out he was trying to bring positivity to his people and thus he was able to... They failed and he was able to counterattack and erase them from history and thus start his beautiful civilization in exchange. Bilbo Baggins? No. I mean, I was trying to remain vague, but maybe... Oh, someone in chat's already guessed it. A lot of people have. That would be Palpatine. It's... You can describe anybody, as Rags just said.  I think what I said probably applies. But yeah, if we just leave out certain bits, it does sound like a nice little story, doesn't it? Again, if you just talk about the general, then... Sheave did nothing wrong. Sheave did nothing wrong. It's just a strange first name for that. Sheave Palpatine. He had greedily kept secret. This doesn't sound like the story of a villain, far from it. No, it doesn't sound like the story of a villain because of the way he just described it. Because you took out a whole lot of valuable concepts. Missed the bit where you threatened to kill children. But he is the villain. Black Panther. In fact, this has the structure of a classic hero's journey. The poor orphan boy going on an adventure to defeat a murder...  You can't, you just, you can't leave that bit out. I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. There is ruler with ancient mystical powers.  They should have had him say a speech without mentioning kids. Because I feel like when they put it in... They could kill the women and the children too when everyone's like, sounds good.  If they had not had that bit and just had him say that we'll kill them if they deny a sort of thing. That's enough. We're gonna say, yeah, that's a villain. You don't need to be like, by the way, kids too. It's like, oh, alright. George Lee is dead. Maybe we should rethink our... I think it's as overt and silly that Anakin executes. Do you think Killbunker likes sand? At least Anakin felt some remorse after doing it. Yeah, but Killbunker never actually killed any kids, Wolf, okay? He was all 12. Well, he said he wanted to. True. But of course, telling the story this way leaves out some very important pieces of information. Like the fact that our hero has killed countless people and seems to really like it. Or that his final plan, while admirable in some ways... Hitler. Are you admirable in some way? Well, hey, Hitler was an admirable guy, just saying. I think genuinely, not even trying to be hyperbolic, I would like to ask him, could you look at Hitler in any way and say some of the stuff he was doing was admirable? His paintings were nice. He liked dogs, he was nice to animals. He was trying to bring Germany back to being a full power. You could somehow twist it that way. He was trying to save his country from, you know, stagnation, something like that. White power. Public health and safety. He continued the Audubon project. And if he agrees with that, I'd be like, well, at that point, you just don't even need to... Just don't even bother. He had a rockin' fashion sense. I love what he said. I had to leave a few things out. I was like, yes, yes, you did. Will lead to the death of thousands, if not millions of people. And that when you really get down to it, his actions seem to be mostly motivated by a deep-seated rage that causes him to lash out in vindictive and cruel ways. Classic hero, really? One way to put it. I'm confused. He did a sort of, like, the pitch as a hero, now the pitch as a villain. I'm assuming he's going to comment on how, like, that's reconciled within him to create the best character or something. So do you want to, like... I do want to give him the benefit of the day and essentially... I don't get the impression that he was describing him to say that he was a hero, just to say that he was being portrayed as he would portray a hero in a lot of ways. I suppose he's saying there are aspects to him that could be considered as a part of a hero's journey, which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, but, like, in general. But the problem with Black Panther is, like I said, from the get-go, it's like, oh, his dad was killed and he was abandoned. It's like, yeah, but why, though? That part doesn't even make sense. If it was, like, if T'Chaka was a bad guy, which, by the way, they could have done it that way.  But obviously we... I don't... No. I don't actually really like to see that just then. I just think there's a lot of ways they could have made it.  We can't bring outsiders to Wakanda, and then his son could be like, what the fuck, Dad? Like, that could work. I don't like to see that. Yeah, but we don't really... Maybe there was a cut thing, I don't know. When you take all this into account, it's hard to consider Killmonger any sort of hero, but writing him off as a straightforward villain doesn't seem right either. Do you guys agree with that? What was the first minute of this video? I happily called Killmonger a straight villain. There's not even a question. He is a villain. He is a villain. Absolutely. The guy has the only... his intention is to take over the world via killing several people, including children. Remember when he poisoned the museum lady who did absolutely nothing just because she was there? Remember when... That's what a good guy does. Remember when he killed Forrest Whittock? But his motivations...  Yeah, remember when he killed his girlfriend just because... Oh, yeah. What do you think of that, Jay? They have a scene to show the girl and she kisses him and he's like, yeah, and then the next scene we see her, he ends up shooting her through the head, I believe? No, through the chest, which is weird, because she just dies instantly. Yeah. I mean... Heart shot. Yeah, I mean, I personally don't think I would do that. No, I mean, from a filmmaking standpoint, what were they going for with that? I never understood it. I was like, okay, so she doesn't even have a line of dialogue from what I remember or she might do, but it's like, oh, he has a girlfriend.   Is that what they're going for? I feel like... I feel like they were just sort of going... He was like, I don't know. I feel like they just sort of wanted to seem like he was... I don't think they wanted to think they were an item properly. I think that she just... I mean, at least my impression of it was that she was just some girl he was shagging rather than anything else. Yeah, maybe. But I don't really know why they would do it. I mean, it does make him seem more villainous. The interesting thing is you could have cut here from the film, right, because she doesn't actually have relevance, but I'm assuming that the reason they included it was to show that he's ruthless and you'll do anything to get his... to win. Yeah, I mean, the light of that killing children does that as well. Exactly, yeah. Listen, Anakin, I was up... I was kind of with you to a point up until the... You can see him in the council. They were probably like, yeah, this is a great play.  They were like, whoa. Whoa now, whoa. The light that has been crossed. Oh. Yeah. Someone described him shooting his girlfriend as the easiest breakup ever. No strings attached. He was a good person. He just wanted a nice, quick, clean breakup. It's true. It wasn't very clean. What did you think of killing Claw in general, by the way, as a writing choice? Like the character, I mean? Because I quite like Claw. I was like, why did they get rid of Claw? I think I just like Andy Serkis. I'm going to miss Claw. It felt weird. I feel like... He was introduced in what was essentially the biggest stepping stone film in the MCU, being Age of Ultron, only to basically be in about half an hour at most of Black Panther and then die. It was like, oh.  People I care about are dying in this film and it sort of made me more invested in it. Yeah. I probably... I mean, you know, this is way too controversial considering how the film runs. I would have preferred it if he was the bad guy to be honest overall. But there's another question that gets raised and I don't think I actually... I forgot to have it in my video. Claw is like a trillionaire. What is he doing with Vibranium? What is... What's he up to? He just wants more money. Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of work he is just that he could never have enough money. I could totally believe that he does this but I feel like they just leave that detail out. They don't reconcile it. Like you could just have a henchman being like, Claw, you're rich. What are you doing? Then he's like, I don't do this for the money. You'd be like, oh cool. Yeah. You need some money to promo his mix tape. Oh right, yeah. That just reminds me of how my favorite part of the film probably is Bilbo and Claw, those two. I just like them in the film. I find them entertaining. I think they're both great actors. I was just like, yeah, that was fun. For the brief time they're there. At least I got the entertainment value of just thinking that Gollum and Bilbo accidentally wound up in this universe. Well, people are looking forward to when Doctor Strange and Bilbo meet up because of the Sherlock connection, but I mean... Oh wait, and Lord of the Rings. Oh, the Hobbit, sorry. Isn't it? Because of Benedict Cumberbatch played. Oh yeah. He can make a reference like, I'm fire. Exactly. It'll be great. I don't know.  And Benedict Cumberbatch like responded to the tweet saying there's a reason they didn't have that because it's awful.  So anyway. It's part of what makes him the most compelling antagonist in MCU history in my opinion. He doesn't just give T'Challa a conflict to overcome. He also makes him question everything about his family, his position, and his country. That makes...  Yeah. I wouldn't... I don't think I could go that far. I'd be like, why couldn't he just cite something that would make a bit more sense? He makes him question himself about everything. He's like, well, not really. He just highlights the fact that his dad did a thing for some reason and we never really find out why. Wait, afterwards T'Challa does changes. Oh, he does. He wants to do the whole policy thing. But I'm not sure if... What would you say is the reason that he did that? Because I would cite the girlfriend before Killmonga. I mean, I think... I definitely think that at least the film wants you to think that Killmonga had a hand in it. Sure. But he's like a monster. He's like a horrible, horrifying monster. I like to think that basically T'Challa went, oh, these are some more right ideas.  We're going to go... We're going to take your ideas, Killmonga. We're going to count a couple of things. Just a couple of bullet points. We're just going to try to get details, really. He's like in a room with the both wearing glasses of a clipboard. He's like, so killing children, can we knock that off the list? And he's like, no. Okay. Maybe not all kids. He's like, no, all of them. You're like, oh man. You're not being reasonable. We'll grab the kids. And he's like, it's a start. It's a start. We got to have a little intervention here. Killmonga killing kids is probably not the best idea. Everyone's there. We need to talk about you killing children. Do you remember how he says that we can save you? And then he's like, what? So I could be in a prison. I remember being like, dude, take that opportunity. You might be able to get out again.   Be like, yeah, dude, I want to help you with your new plan. Yeah.  Yeah, yeah. I was just saying, I'm not saying it's a problem. I'm just saying that's what I would have done. I'd be like, sure, I'll go into prison. That's fine. I only regret that there are children left unkilled. And like a week later, you get visited by T'Challa. He's like, hey, bad. You're like, hey, man, I was thinking killing kids is just the wrongest thing to do. That is so bad. No one should ever do that, you know? He's like, mm-hmm. You're like, so can I come out? That's all that you had a problem with before, right? I think some not just a fun Marvel villain, but a fantastic complex character in general. I applaud your cleverness, Mr. Richards. But even when a Panther cannot hear his victim.  What? Okay, I guess that's fine. Okay, I do not like this animation look. It is. Now, I can see a lot of people taking the title of this video as an attack on Loki, who many consider to be the best MC. I'd go with Thanos at this point. I'd go with Thanos, yeah. I'm with Thanos. Thanos is quite an internal logic. In fairness, was this video made before or after? Good question. Why Black Panther Captain? Let's see if... Because I'll give him leeway if that's the case. Captain Midnight. I would still think it's arguable that... I would understand if someone said that he preferred Loki to Thanos. I wouldn't agree, but I'd be like... Oh yeah, well, see, my problem with... I don't really have a problem with Loki. I just don't find him as interesting. I really like... I feel like it's Tom Hiddleston rather than Loki, to be honest. I just enjoy him. While with Thanos, there's a lot for my brain to chew on with Thanos. If that makes any sense at all. Yeah. February 28th. So when did Infinity War come out? That was in May, right? Or April? War release. Oh yeah, so this is two months before, so that's fair. Okay, so we'll give him leeway for that. Yeah, absolutely. I can see... Yeah, who have you even got to sight for good villains in the MCU outside of... Vulture? Vulture's probably... Dr. Octopus? Oh, well, no, MCU maybe. Well, he's not an MCU. Oh, okay, yeah, I was just stretching. It would be Loki, Vulture, if we ignore Thanos. I'm not even sure who else is left at that point. Certainly not any of the Iron Man villains. They were all terrible. Captain... Oh, where's Zemo? I like Zemo a lot. Then you got basically no one left. Oh, Ego, some people are referencing from Guardians 2. He's alright, I like Ego. I'd say I don't really like him as much as a villain, but the mind of the carry is. It's complicated. Red Skull, no, he's too... Red Skull was lame. He's too evil. Yeah, a little bit too mustache twirly for me. Hail Hydra. Hulk's dad from Ang Lee Hulk? Oh, that was Chris Gustafson, right? Oh, no, Nick Nolte, I believe. It was one of those two. I can't remember who, but I think it was Nick Nolte in the Ang Lee Hulk. Fist from the Daredevil show. I mean, that's... I don't know if we can... Winter Soldier? I liked Winter Soldier. I just didn't think he was overly... I don't think... Well, I don't really think he's much of a villain. He's more of a victim, to be honest. Yeah. He's sort of a tool more than anything, really, for the villains. I really like him as a character. I wouldn't count him as a villain, though. I'm sorry, I can't consider Ultron. I thought that Ultron was kind of poop. He's too... And that's the thing, I love James Bader's voice, and I like the ideas involved with Ultron, but man, was he goofy. He was oddly goofy for what was supposed to be like... I wish he was more mechanically precise, you know? Really played the A.I. Yeah, angle a bit more. He makes some of the damage jokes. Like a Borg or something, you know? Yeah, for a character that wanted to literally destroy the planet, every time he came up on screen, I was like, this does not strike me as the kind of character that would destroy a planet. He's like a jokey kind of dude. I don't know, it just didn't work for me. I'm thinking from the trailer that he was going to be extremely creepy, like, very definitive in every action he takes, and, you know, single-minded in a goal, but also has information. Like, I love the idea that he was the anti-Ironman. He was just as intelligent, but had a different solution to the world's problems.  I also like the idea, because there was a video that brought it up, it was like, it would have been cool to have twisted Ultron's goals to have been in favor of defending the Earth against Thanos. Like, that was his ultimate plan, because he knew Thanos was coming or something like that. And he was like, we're going to get rid of all the humans and redo them all with bots instead, because they'll be much better as a defense against Thanos. And you just be like, they could have had a few drops of clues in Ultron, but the problem is, I don't think they had any idea what Infinity War was going to be when they were writing Age of Ultron, so they planned a little bit ahead, but not completely. But overall, yeah, Loki's cool. I like Loki. Don't mean it to be. Tom Hiddleston is great as Loki, and I'd probably rank him as one of the best characters in the entire MCU. But for me at least, Loki works best when he's not the villainous lead, but a supporting character. He was my favorite part of the Dark World, and one of my favorite parts of Ragnarok for a reason. That's the type of role. Probably the only good part of the Dark World. I really like the Dark World. I just thought it was kind of fun to watch people fighting. It's okay, Rags. It's considered one of the worst, if not the worst. I don't actually have a lot of arguments for it because I can never remember what happens in that film. Yeah, I just like people fighting. I just remember watching it in theaters.  And then, God, what's his name? Idris Elba runs across the bridge in the goofiest way ever to stab the ship and climb on it. It was hilarious. Do you hate the references to Norse mythology as well? I remember us talking about that before. Oh, God, yeah. It kind of spit... Well, all the Thor movies kind of spit in the face of actual Norse mythology. It kind of got ridiculous in that movie. Not to make a tangent. We'll do this as quickly as we can. But how are you finding that aspect of God of War 4? Well, the same thing with... Well, the thing is that at least from the first three God of War games, like they kind of spit in the face of Greek mythology in a lot of places too. Oh, God, yeah. It's a complete mess. They're just like, this stuff happens here and here. We'll take random things. It does the same thing with God of War 4. But I can ignore it because, I mean, we're talking about a Greek God in a Norse world, which would not ever work. So I can kind of be like, okay, I'll just play with it. So I would say Rags calls himself a movie reviewer, which I know while liking Thor because he likes people fun. Yeah, I like the movie. I didn't say it was good. I just said I liked it because I like the effects. It's okay, chat. Put your guns down. I thought it was fun. I thought it was a fun movie to watch because they're like elves fighting Greek people or Thor people, Norse people. I remember seeing Darkwild and Iron Man 3 somewhat like together-ish, or at least within a certain amount of time. And I remember thinking like, yeah, I'm pretty much dubbed with the MCU. That was like my low point. I can't remember. Someone said, I'm sorry, someone said Rags is not a movie reviewer. He's a handler, get it right. Yeah, that's right. Oh wait, I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember. Jere Genesis. Oh yeah. Fuck, I completely forgot about that. You see, that's the thing with me in movies. I am much more predisposed to like movies than not like them. Yeah, but it doesn't stop you from talking about the mechanics in them. Yeah, that's why when I watched Thor of the Darkwild I was like, oh, stuff's always happening. Things are constantly going on. Like the effects and some of the weapons were really cool. Like the black hole grenades I thought were really neat. You know, stuff like that. I was like, oh, good stuff happening things. That's just why I liked it.  I know Annihilation is one of them. Quiet place. Yeah. You liked a quiet place, didn't you? Yeah, I liked it. By the way, we're on the minority on that one, I think. Most people like Annihilation. As far as I know. Most people are wrong. We'll see how chat reacts to it now. What's your take on the Darkwild, Jay? I cannot remember it at all. I fell asleep on that one too. It's definitely the most forgettable MCU film. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that really. Well, the Incredible Hulk. I literally cannot remember it at all. I remember Hulk punching things a couple of times and that was about it. The guy from Pulp Fictions in it as well. He's like the main bad guy sort of. He's abomination, I believe. The guy from Pulp Fiction. Oh yeah, there's a lot of guys from Pulp Fiction. Tim Roth, Tim Roth is the one I was looking for. Oh, okay. See, I think you could be watching Thor the Darkwild and you could be halfway through it and realize that you have no idea what's happened up until that point. And that's not because you've not been paying attention. That's just because of how the film feels.  That's the problem for it. Sure, I would happily agree that Loki is probably the best part of it. Yeah. As opposed to the other good parts of it. I like Loki in Avengers. He was the villain in Avengers. Because this guy said he's better as a supporting character. Isn't he always a supporting character outside of... Oh wait, he was the villain in Thor 1, wasn't he? Yeah. Well, he was one of like three villains in Thor 1.  Right. He was so... Wasn't there like evil humans too? Some of the chats said I like the last Jedi and don't cross lines, alright? You can go, no. No, no. Look, jokes are... We all like some jokes. We all enjoy a little humor, alright?  That joke is too far. Because someone will take that seriously and think I actually liked the last Jedi. Oh, he applied it to you. I found out where you leave. Someone said Rags likes the last Jedi. I will hyperdrive my Mazda into your house. Have you seen our podcast before? We rarely... I don't think we've had a podcast where Star Wars was mentioned. I think they're joking. Good, good, good. But yeah, I've liked Loki in pretty much all the films but I can't even remember him in Thor 1 to be perfectly honest. I liked him as the bad guy in Avengers. I'm putting that out there. I thought he was great. I enjoyed it. It's probably why he had the slot for, like, number one villain until... Thanos knocked it off, I suppose. I can't think of it if I prefer any of those, but... Whatever, we shall let this man continue. Excelsior. In Avengers, he represents a pretty cut-and-dry challenge for the heroes. They need to band together as a team or see the entire planet taken over by him and his alien overlords. It provided a great skeleton for Joss Whedon to write entertaining team scenes around, but that's about it. Loki's lust for power just...  Yeah, it looks like they've opted for not only taking masks away but making it so that everyone's masks are nano-suited on now, isn't it? Yeah. But the best parts of the Avengers movies are how all the characters interact and talk and all that.  There's a scene where... There's several scenes where Thor is trying to reach Loki and he almost does. He says that, like, you've gone too far, this has to stop, and then Loki says it's too late, and then he says, no, it's not, we can do it together, and then Loki decides to stab him anyway. That's the thing that happens, isn't it? He's not just a one-dimensional evil man. And he deliberately lets himself get caught.  I feel like he's selling him a bit short in Avengers 1, that's all. So, yeah, this is my opinion. And then, and remember, he was in Infinity War 2. He was for a little bit. It isn't explored with that much depth within the film itself. This isn't the case with Killmonger. The conflict he presents to the rest of the cast goes far beyond he wants power and is willing to kill to take it. It makes them... What? No, it doesn't. Um, does it? Do that?  That's how he's layered. I just want to... I suppose it could be in saying he wants power for other people instead of just himself. Yeah, but he wants to be the overlord. You know, it would be like me being like, yeah, I want rags and wolf to have level 5 strength as long as I have level 6 strength. Like, hmm... Fair enough. He wants to rule right, you know?  Just that one aspect is a bit awkward, but... That's the cast. Goes far beyond he wants power and is willing to kill to take it. It makes them confront the sins of the past and question their own priorities. The sins of the past... Well, those sins can't apply to T'Challa because it wasn't applied... He wasn't born yet. He didn't even know about it. And the sin doesn't even make sense. Glory to the hand. Or if he was born, he wasn't, you know, around to see it happen. He probably was born, but he was just back home or whatever. But this is very hard for me to swallow considering how the choice for them to leave behind just didn't make sense. That's where I'm stuck still. I think that's the issue, is that they could have written it so it made sense. They had opportunities to do so. Yeah, I mean, it's not like they went with their...  Who would do that? Nobody would ever do that. Because let's be clear here, what T'Challa's father did to Eric was pretty deeply messed up. Yeah, but why did he do it?  Well, I mean, T'Challa did suggest that.  That was the other thing that I didn't really pick up on until the rewatch with Wolf. When he kills the dad, it seemed unnecessary.   He's like, oh man, I gotta go all the way now. I've stopped the gun, may as well kill him. Wait, what? I have the claws.  He turned a blind eye to that kid's suffering for decades. Why, though? Just anyone? And even if, I mean, I don't even know if that's a fair take. The kid's suffering. He turned a blind eye to the world's suffering. Couldn't you, isn't that? Mowing line with the film. To the rest of Africa's suffering. To the rest of Wakanda outside of the dome. Yeah, they don't count. They don't count. As the leader of the most technologically advanced nation in the world, and someone we know has spies everywhere, it doesn't seem like he ever once checked in on Eric. If he had, he would have seen an incredibly angry and broken person Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. We're still stuck at the beginning, though. Turning into a killing machine. He could have done something about that. Instead, either out of anger or simple shame, he looks the other... What do you mean, though? Out of anger or shame? Anger for war and shame for war. These things aren't covered.  He's using it to help prop it up as a shield. God, right. Do you know nothing about trial by combat?  Wouldn't that be funny if he kicked his shield hard enough that his spear sliced his neck? I just read someone in the chat. How would you have known about the kid anyway? Or I guess he would have known through the spy? Question mark? Because the guy was spying on him? Through young forest Whitaker. I mean, they already accepted anyway, right? Because T'Chuck is like, we had to do it to keep the secret. And you're like, you're wrong.  Also, look at that guy's outfit there. He's got, like, overalls for the... He's doing a power split. All of it. And allowed a monster to be created in the process. And that makes sense, because turning a blind eye to suffering seemed to be what he did with most things happening outside of Wakanda. Don't all... Has that been like the Wakanda National Anthem for how many thousands of years? That's the thing.  Anything for why they left Eric. That's his name, isn't it? This is like a scene missing or dialogue missing. And he's just sort of... He hasn't even provided a reason yet. I'm waiting for him to maybe invent one, because obviously, we kind of need one, but he just said he was out of shame and anger. Or he said he was possibly out of shame and anger. Which, again, is just like, what do you mean? What are you referring to? This is relevant. Editing!  But let me back up. Who even was that? That's Black Panther playing with yarn, because that's what Black Pea... That's what cats do. Was that like a mobile game? Something. It had like a buy gold button, so I assume it's a shitty mobile game. I love how you had to catch yourself and...  You have to whip him into shape. That's what Black Panther does. He plays with yarn because he's a cat. All of this is interesting, sure, but it would be nothing without a great actor to bring it to the screen. Thankfully, Ryan Coogler knew just the guy from his previous role in Coogler's Fruitvale Station and... Introducing Coogler's... I don't really have any criticisms for that. They shouldn't have food stand. I actually really like Creed, by the way. Have you guys seen that? I heard it was really good, though. I'm not into those kinds of movies, but I heard it was really good. I'm super into boxing movies, or fighting movies in general, but I heard good things about it. Any comment on his acting for Killmonger? I think he's a good actor. I've seen him...  I just think he takes bad roles at times. Like, is that a... I don't really have a problem with... He's the Nicholas Cage. No, he's more like... What's his name? He was in Alien Covenant. Michael Fassbender. He's like... He's a really good actor that takes so many bad movies. He was in Assassin's Creed. Oh, God, yeah. X-Men Annihilation. Snowman.  Jesus. He's in... I know. Michael Fassbender is a great actor who has, like, the worst agent ever. He's been in, like, two good movies. Well... Let's see if we just agree with this. He's good at playing roles that have stuff going on under the surface, even though I would argue that Killmonger is extremely blatant about his motivations. I'm pretty sure he describes them throughout the film, but hey, not knocking this guy's... I would have wanted some clarification on what he means by there's a lot going on under the surface. Like, with the character, or with the scene, or with... Probably the character in terms of his activation. Yes, he's secretly white under all that black skin. Well, if that is a rude what you just said, how dare you? Oh, it's a rude, okay. We all are black on the inside. Technically, we all... Isn't that how that would... We all would have had black ancestors on Pangea, right? Oh, wait, was that before humans? Well, that was before humans. That was a good... No, sorry, that is... We all came from one continent. It was my point, sorry. Yeah, I mean, we were all brown at one point. And to brown, we shall return. I mean, I guess if you want to get super specific with it, we kind of are all the same like slithering insect. Oh, right, yeah. No, we're all stardust. We're all amoeba. No, we're all descendants of Adam and Eve because 6,000 years ago I made people in the Garden of Eden.  The truth will set you free. He was new no matter how tough he tried to act.  With Creed, it was insecurity. Oh, here it is. Okay, this is weird. So, obviously the intention here is to run a thread through all of wealth, through the character on the wire, Creed and Killmonger. I'm more interested in how he's going to try and assess that Killmonger has stuff going on under the surface as opposed to being... Like, I'm not crazy here, right? Like, Killmonger was very overt. Yeah, I reckon he didn't believe that hanging. He never really gave the idea of internal conflict or anything like that. Wolf? You'll take on this. I'm just trying to get over the fact that he was like, this kid played a great drug dealer. No! That's straw-matted. He said he played a great kid thinking he was a drug dealer. You're the worst. He played a lot of the nervousness and anxiety of being in his legendary father's shadow. In Fantastic Four, he... Oh god. Oh no, you don't know what... Oh yeah! He wasn't that movie! I forgot that movie was a thing. It's usually like someone has to bring it up for me to even remember it. This looks like the cover of a Spy Kids movie. Fantastic, I believe, is whatever goes with it. Why is he referencing Fantastic Four? This is not the kind of movie you want to reference in a good light. Dude, he's got very few films to choose from, I imagine. He wants... I'm not even trying to be a conspiracy theory here. He wants to just prove that he plays complex characters, so he's just applying it to any film he could find that he's in. Let me see what... Oh god, he was in that horrible Red Tails movie too. Man, he's in a lot of bad movies. You didn't like that movie because you're racist. Exactly. That's why he didn't like Black Panther 2. Man forced. How come every movie where Michael B. Gordon plays a Black character you don't like? He plays a Black character? Look, it's nothing against that. It's just, you know, I think he's a better Asian character personally. Anyway... You know, let's just not talk about Fantastic Four. Oh, okay. There you go. High five. High five too. Anyway, in Black Panther, what he's playing boiling just under the surface in almost every scene is rage and a lot of it. We already straggled the old lady. It doesn't seem like containing that rage very well. The subtlety of the rage beneath the surface as he strangles people. Rage beneath... He does a lot of shouting. He makes a lot of statements about how evil the people he's trying to take down are. Yeah, but under the surface, under the surface there's even more rage. He gets even worse. He's even... rage. That is after-earth. I'm sad that I know that.  High five for rage. Good night. Sit down. Good night. Mind is when he gets buried in the sand and takes a trip to the spirit realm. For T'Challa... You just have to say that as if it just makes sense. In the spirit realm... It's buried. It's sad. Visits the spirit realm. One thing that really comes to mind is when he gets buried in the sand and takes a trip to the spirit realm.  He's like, you're what wrong?      Panthers in the trees are like, should we go? Should we go? This is really awkward. That's one thing I do want to bring up to... Is it Jay? Yep. Hi. Did you notice that there's only like six kings? Oh yeah. There's trees in the background. There's one over there. There's a whole bunch of Panthers on that one. Why was the spirit realm specific six? Dude, the cabra pad's right. There's hundreds of Panthers lying there. It's like a bush. And the spirit realm, the floor is lava. You see? Past Kings. For Eric, not so much. His vision takes him to his childhood apartment. The spirit of his father still linger in there.  And you really start to feel for him. Honestly, one of the better scenes. I actually found that one decent enough that he has that conflict with his dad. He even explains how he knows all about Wakanda through like a little book that he found that was a secret. But on our second watch, I did say that how in the world wouldn't Forrest Whitaker have known about that book? And how blatantly bad it is to leave something like that in the human part... Well, in the non-Wakanda place. But either way, it's fine. It was nice to get that little bit out of Killmonger despite how much nothing makes sense about him to me. But when he rises from that sand, it isn't in sadness or maybe even a sense of closure that he got to speak to his dad one last time. Not at all. He comes out with pure unadulterated anger and hate. But unlike many villains, it's not like every other scene he's in. Yeah, like... Yeah, what a difference it made. Yeah, I mean, well, the idea is that he was doing it for that very reason then he sees the reason again and he's like, yep, still doing it for this reason. It's rage. But something very understandable and grounded. In this way, he actually reminds me of one of my favorite non-MCU bad guys, Magneto. Now that I think about it, Killmonger and Magneto have a lot in common. Um... No... No... I already know how he's going to connect them but it's just like, yeah, but... And I'm not even one to defend the X-Men films. I like them a lot. There's a couple of problems, but like Magneto versus Xavier is supposed to be the kind of like, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Junior, right? That's the, like, the idea. And that mutants are... Magneto fights for mutant rights with violence while Xavier is trying to incorporate and work with and stuff. But... To compare Magneto to Killmonger. That feels weird to me but sure, I'll give him a shot. Both are trying to take down society. What? Yes, can we throw Hitler in there, please? Like... And a brutal childhood? Take down society? How many villains does that apply to? That's the guy from Thor 2. Uh, technically Loki. Because Loki's trying to destroy in Thor 1 and in Avengers. Um... What if Thanos nuking half the galaxy pretty much destroy every single society ever? Someone in chat said that Doom guy has more personality than Killmonger. Makes more sense than Killmonger? That actually does make sense because Doom guy is like pure rage but it's presented in this... like this characterized way. Also, I'm confused. Take down society. Wouldn't it be they want to change society? Well, I guess you have to take it down in order to change it I guess. One wants to make it just completely mutants and the other just wants to make it completely adults. Adults? Oh, right. That took me way too long to catch. Magne was like, we're not so different. You are not. It is, we know it. Both had very brutal childhood. Well, one was in the literal Holocaust. Oh my god, named Eric. Really? I know. Okay, look. One was in the Holocaust. The other's dad died. I think one has a little bit more to go on. Not to mention, let me do this with two other characters. We'll take Spider-Man and Star-Lord. They both want to help people. They both had a childhood in which their loved ones died. They both named Peter. It's like, yeah, so... Yeah. Let's take Tony Stark and Tony Montana. Tony Montana. You know, if you... They both named Tony. If you just replace the second and fourth weaponry... They both have access to high-powered weaponry. If you just replace the second and fourth weaponry... If they both replace the second and fourth weaponry... It's evil. Alright, let's see what else he's got. Both are even named Eric with a K. Except, not really. Most importantly though, both have goals that are, in many ways, very sympathetic. They make some very... Okay, Magneto's like Mutant Supremacy. This is a good thing. I don't know what his valid point is, exactly. Oh, Jared's in chat, if you want to say hi. Hi, Jared. We'll talk about Co-Monger.  Jared, you stay Alpha. Do you want to see what his reaction is to throw in an invite for the next Dishonored Wolf podcast? Or... Well, I don't know when the next Dishonored Wolf podcast is going to be, but I will keep him in my thoughts, in my heart. Just like I always do. There's no way you can contact him on Twitter anymore. No way. Well, I can always comment on his videos, and even if he deletes his channel, he's going to make a new one about 12 minutes later, so I'll be able to always contact him. There's an ongoing argument about the differences between sympathetic and empathetic, and I believe it's the difference between understanding why they do what they do, versus relating to what they do. Being like, yeah, I could definitely see myself doing that. If we're going for the whole, you can understand Killmonger and Magneto's goals.  It's like, okay, cool.  They just stuck to themselves. In response, I'm going to get rid of every world leader and kill everyone involved who defies me, including children, until I can rule the world the correct way. It's like, what? I think his motivations are sympathetic just not what he decides to do because of his motivations. Did he say goals? Like, yeah, I actually maybe. Because correct me if I'm wrong, but Magneto's goal is actually the same as Xavier's. It's just their methods are different.  I agree with you, Xavier. I'll be a good guy, but then he's not. It's like, that happens several times. He goes from a bad guy to a good guy to a bad guy in every single movie. Do you remember how in Days of Future Past, they bring him in to be helping, that he ends up being the film's villain? Shit.  I'm going to be the bad guy now. Oh, fuck, that was a mistake. He goes with whatever the most what he feels is the most realistic ends to what his goal will be. Sure. But like, Killmonger's goal is to take over the world. I'm not gonna, that's retarded. Like, you're just a guy. With a K, except not really. Most importantly though, both have goals that are in many ways very sympathetic and they make some very valid points. But their methods to get to those goals are far too brutal and murderous for our protagonists to get on board. Well, for the audience to get on board. I mean, we can assume he's saying that too. Those goals, they would have been better to phrase it that way though. As if the child is the only person that has a problem with this. Bill, I don't know because right after he is sympathetic in many ways. These cutaways are very strange. I'm not sure I feel about this. I don't understand what they're for. And like, he wants to go for a different format every time, right? Cause it was like a newer cartoon and the other one was like a game. Very strange. I don't really understand why they're here. And also, cause he's only got nine minutes like he's obviously, this is a very quick video so throwing these in, I mean this, I'm not saying this is why they're here but it certainly helps to pad it a little bit. Well, you know he's gonna throw in that betterhelp.com or something at the end. We'll see. I don't know, I can't remember if he has sponsors or not, cause I remember I've seen two videos of his before.  According to Black Panther co-writer Joe Robert Cole, in a lot of ways what T'Challa and Eric want are the same things. But Eric is coming at it from How would you sum up what they both want as the same thing? Really? What Hitler wanted wasn't that different from what everyone else wanted. There were just less Jews involved. So you could summarize it as being like you know, nobody's any different because everyone wants something. But I'm curious, cause aren't these two like antithetical to each other in the film? Isn't that kind of the point? Cause T'Challa only wants to sort of expand Wakanda after Eric is dead. So like to say that they sort of want the same thing it's like not really.  That's a strange comparison. Yeah, I'm not sure about this. From a place of pain and T'Challa ultimately finds a place of empathy This is what puts Killmonger a notch or two ahead of the rest of the MCU villains. What? Okay, if you say so. Not only is his goal emotionally grounded in a way that say Malekitz plans with looking elves. Civil War was out at this point. How is Zemo's plan not emotionally motivated? What about Vulture? I'm pretty sure Spider-Man Homecoming was out at this point too. Why would you, like what's the point in going for the bottom of the barrel?  I can't tell you what his plan was I'm pretty sure he was like he had some kind of, the aether was supposed to do a thing the red stuff I'm waiting for anybody to fill in the blanks here because I just can't remember. I think his name was Malekitz Dude, we're trying to figure out what his name is Well he just said it, he just said it here It's Mal some, if your name begins with Mal I'm sorry, you're gonna be a bad guy Malevolence That's an evil name Yeah, no point comparing it to him If, like at least bring in Loki, that would have been a better shot And to conquer the Nine Realms and thaw the Dark World just wasn't There's a sense that if T'Chaka had just made a few different choices Erick and T'Challa could be on the same page He's just summed up why I don't think it's well written If he just made a few different choices it's like, yeah I agree As family, but by the time we meet Kilmonger, literally murdering people in the first scene we see him in he's just too far gone and there's definitely Is it? I just like, why does play an element of tragedy I don't know Too far gone is a villain yet still sympathetic somehow When he's bleeding out under the Wakandan sunset arm in arm with T'Challa but refusing to get the life saving medical help he needs you can't help but wonder who this guy would have been if things had played out just a little differently in his life So even though I Yeah, I agree with that too If things had been different If the dad hadn't made a retarded decision Yeah, interesting stuff I was sad to see him go and kind of wish he could return to the MCU Loki style He was at least given one of the best and definitely one of the most thought provoking deaths in any model You mean like how he was stabbed through the heart and managed to survive for like an hour afterward Yeah, yeah Which completely I think I told Rags this for making that comment There's a couple of comments that were like No, you can totally survive over I got a very very long email from a doctor who said he noticed a lot of people saying that you can survive a knife to the heart for extended periods of time You can't It is literally impossible The heart is very important It is very fragile I believe the email opened with something like the heart is an extremely important organ Look man You get stabbed in the heart, you're fucked What if the Charla puts one of his balls in it Oh, that's a great point He could have balled his heart Yeah, he's giving the old heart ball He said something like if you sever If you sever any of the pipes or tubes or whatever the fuck goes on in the heart in total You've already pretty much guaranteed yourself a heart attack like immediately is what he said He said you might be able to survive for like a minute at most But if you even try to move you will definitely die Do you remember how far they travel It's like They have to walk all the way to the elevator then walk from the elevator to the edge of the confidence like oh His heart had vibranium in it Well this is the thing, some people are like yeah but he had the super juice It's like what do you think that means that the heart healed and that also didn't I don't hate you Eric I just want to put my bulls in your heart It's an emotional scene One of the most common criticisms of MCU villains is that their powers are a lazy mirror of the heroes This goes all the way back to Obadiah Stain and the first Iron Man Yeah I mean I don't know how you guys feel about this but like I really liked Obadiah Stain up until he got into his suit and then he became a really retarded villain It was like what the hell is your plan I'm going to be honest The opening scene and I was like this isn't the opening No He's also right about like mirror enemies as well I agree with that but they took the criticism to heart okay and as of if you took all of the villains from 2000 I want to say 15 and onwards the MCU was doing really well well except for Killmong Completely opposite to this guy that's what I think Basically becomes Iron Man but bigger for Black Panther drop Why wouldn't you throw more examples in there That could have been fun You could be like oh and this one is just Thor but well Loki's the enemy to Thor It's not really Thor but bigger is it Then you've got Captain America fights Red Skull which isn't exactly red Captain America but bigger Then you got Hulk who fights a slightly different colored Hulk Yeah that's a good example of he just fights bigger Hulk Opt I remember hearing those criticisms again and it's true in the third act To Chalice fighting bigger to Chalice Screenshot sums it up He's fighting bumpier to Chalice Killmonger does get a suit almost exactly like to Chalice but it works better here because in this movie that's actually kind of the point Oh So why isn't it the point in Iron Man Actually I'm sorry Here you'll take on this when I make my point Jay but uh Isn't the point in Iron Man that he actually makes it blatant himself he says Tony in your attempt to stop the proliferation of your weapons you've given the world its biggest one and like the idea that Tony's working throughout the film to stop people from using his weapons to destroy shit and then Obadiah Stain is using what is his newest and most powerful weapon against him Wouldn't that be considered part of the film? Yeah I do think it is sort of the it does make sense in Iron Man for it to be the way it is I'm not even a fan but I think it makes sense from the film's point of view I don't think it makes like a very interesting fight but I think narratively it makes good sense and like I don't know how you feel about this but the fight between the two Black Pathers this film was by the least favourite part I don't even know where to begin Oh Playstation The Rhinos Oh god everybody hated the Rhydo CGI it's just rushed that's all it was it's unfortunate because I you can probably guarantee that the people behind it had the talent to make something better but they were told you have like one week to make Rhinos and they were like what make it a Rhinon now Eyes of the Wakandan people in the finale they fight in almost the exact same suit one purple and one gold and when they do it's not because they want to beat the crap out of each other I mean they're more black both of them but sure I guess they the people in black gold tinges although definitely that too they want to do a little more than beat the crap at each other that's the thing is though like when I was watching it I was almost confused I was like how can they possibly beat each other and then they were like oh by the way the thing randomly removes their suits and you're like oh and then you realise that if he was wearing the suit from Civil War that probably wouldn't have been the case I'm assuming because this stuff is like nanomites the ghetto over you and so it wouldn't have the best part is is like his suit isn't even like being affected by the train by the time he stabs him the whole thing you know it's just like oh wow that little space happened to open up next to his heart and you stabbed him at that moment too it's like that worked out well was there a space that opened up over his heart because I thought their suits were like reformed by that point I think that's what happens isn't it it's like the suits are all blotchy and then he stabs him in the heart and then the train's gone it's just too late and when they do it's not because they want to I say maybe I have to watch the movie again but I really dearly don't want to do that beat the crap out of each other although definitely that too it's because they're fighting over two different visions of what the Black Panther and by extension Wakanda represents I don't even think Killmonga gives a shit about Black Panther he just wants the power in the suit because they're useful I don't think he gives a shit about what Black Panther represents I don't think there's ever I doubt he just doesn't seem like the principle type yeah I just think he sees it as tools he doesn't give a shit about any of that I think he actively despises Black Panther and Wakanda for the history that they've chosen to do think of all the children I could kill in the end T'Challa comes out on top this is a Marvel movie after all so it probably doesn't come as a surprise that the hero emerges victorious but after Eric dies some of the points he made still live on he may not have won but he did manage to permanently change the way that Wakanda relates to the outside world yeah but that was happening anyway there's a scene where the T'Challa is like we do not open our borders and then the girl is like we should though and he's like hmmmm that's what I mean because the girl has another talk with him later and then she's at the end as well I think I can't remember but I will concede that Killmonger probably got T'Challa to agree to it but I think it's more motivated by the fact that his dad did the crazy stupid thing originally that's what made T'Challa be like okay we are kind of evil but again it doesn't make sense that's my biggest issue or one of them anyway so in the end even though I could never consider Killmonger any sort of great hero like he is the guy willing to kill his girlfriend at the drop of a hat why would you call him a hero in general much less a great one he did say that he couldn't and then he referenced the fact that he just murdered his girlfriend randomly and I'm like this is why I could never consider him a good guy he's a horrible person and you could be like yeah but he's horrible because of his history I'd be like no just because your dad was assassinated does not mean you need to start killing children and innocent people and strangling old women that's not how it works who is the old woman he strangled again? once he wakes up from we fucking laughed at it when we rewatched it oh yeah that part he's like bearded old she's like we can't do that he just goes block and she's like what the fuck are you doing while you're strangling only I get the great juice now T'Arts is an eye that he had a positive impact on T'Challa there's enough shame in this in the same way that Thanos had a positive impact on the use of this he brought us together in the same way that Hitler had a positive impact on the juice it's all very very vague he gave them all a huge victim complex that's continued for almost a century yay to kill his girlfriend at the drop of a hat it's hard to deny that he had a positive impact on T'Challa there's enough shades of gray to him to elevate him far above the usual comic book villain that makes him not just my favorite character in the Black Panther but my favorite villain in the entire MCU but you said he's the best villain you said why Black Panther has Marvel is wait what why Black Panther has Marvel's oh right I was confused by that title for a second but you see what he did he's made a statement of fact in the title and then in the video he was like in my opinion it's different it is different with the title because we assume oh he's gonna argue like objectively why it's true and then at the end he's like by the way this is just my opinion here's how he compares to this one and this one and this one get ready for the 20 second ad if you say in my opinion it means you cannot be criticized that's how that works hey I hope you liked the video I will be back next week no ad just subscribe well I guess it's an ad for his channel but that's okay isn't it Wolf yay I'm not shilling better help you know the depression scam that's uh Shane Dawson was doing that right I'm pretty sure he advertised for it like a whole ton of YouTubers it's a scam do you know that for like for fact apparently it's like the therapist it's like free like temporarily like for a very very short amount of time and then you have to pay like ridiculous amounts of money and then the therapist sometimes will like cancel on you it's like almost compare it's comparable to the candid situation okay but yeah what's everyone's take away from that video any of you can go first or last he was not he was not convincing he didn't really make me like the movie anymore that's my review well that's basically just I mean I didn't say anything that I thought this is this has changed like this has changed my perspective I just sort of went in thinking yeah Killmonger I enjoyed I enjoyed seeing him and that's basically how I feel now have we have we changed your perspective on Killmonger at all or do you feel the same way I feel you pointed out stuff out to me about his plan I'm like yeah I'm not really sure what he did that I still like him as a character but yeah I as as plans go not the most sense making of plans yeah fair enough I'm gonna try and get through these super chats now as fast as I can Rags have you got is it right to say you got 16 minutes I've got yeah just about I will try and I mean because we're gonna start up the video on Predator next so I don't know if you'd rather just go now or if you'd rather go when you have to go completely up to you I'm sorry I was I was in another world there for a second what did you think I was saying because we'll start up the next video soon and obviously you're welcome to stay for as long as you can or if you'd rather leave it at like if you know what I mean like it's like a middle part so you've completed one video and you don't have to start the first bit of another one or you can stay for as long as you want it up to you oh stay as long as I can sweet I read that one the spirit is the best comedy to have comic book movie trappings I have you guys seen the spirit that was like not a sequel but a source the next one from Sin City of the same style I believe of like black and white with select colors highlighted but I don't think anyone saw it Samuel Jackson was in it I think the only spirit movie I know of is the one with the horse yeah no I don't know that I've seen that one stallion of the Himeraan I just want my super chat to show up on stream see you your bundles of sticks wow wow that is offensive because both wolf and rags like sausage I do sausage is really good I'm more of a bacon guy myself though mm-hmm depends on how the sausage and bacon tastes if they have to you know if I have to choose I'm going with bacon consistency is important pineapple on pizza is it heresy absolutely I like pineapple on pizza what a bundle of sticks I wonder you like the rhino milk it ain't right my answer is simple because I don't like pineapple so it doesn't matter if it's on pizza or not but I do consider it it's putting it on pizza is like I don't know being like hey you can have some toast I accidentally I had pineapple nearby and I moved my hand carelessly and I accidentally knocked some pineapple on this pizza it's like I accidentally destroyed the best food in the entire world which is objective pizza is the best food and do you know why because you can have any topping so whatever food you like the most you could just choose that as a topping pineapple when you think of like anyone in the world that doesn't like pizza anyone communists well they don't like food in general so I had a friend they're not a friend anymore but they used to argue that um something tasted sandwich flavor and I was like what the fuck is sandwich flavor and they were like there's so many different kinds of sandwiches I was like it's pizza flavor and he was like yeah that makes sense what do you mean you would depend what pizza it is he's like well every pizza has cheese and I was like no it doesn't though in defense of him when people say pizza it is almost certainly meant that they mean like dough and cheese you know and things there's a lot of pizzas that aren't that though yeah I know but just in the colloquial sense whenever you say pizza we all pretty much think of I would give you it for pizza but what about sandwich though the only thing that's consistent about that is bread and bread's coming completely different not even all bread tastes the same like you have sourdough and ciabatta and rye and whiten wheat really testing rags his knowledge of breads today he's already named more breads than I know of he's gonna say white bread brown bread you have baguettes well toast isn't a type of bread it's just what happens it's cheese bread brioche pita bread ciabatta I think you might be reading enough google now no no because I used to work in a restaurant cornbread pumpernickel and pumpernickel is often confused with rye that's a made up word and then we have our croutons bread and then little chunks of bread like little dried chunks of bread I said pitas but we also have tortillas there's like 2,000 people right now listening to you list breads there's English muffins wait does that count surely they do I should know the answer to that because English muffins are kind of like crumpets aren't they you've already breached my crumpets my knowledge of bread is already done and dusted are breadsticks its own type of bread or is it just like bread in the shape of a stick because I already said baguettes yeah crazy bread it's like normal bread yeah god I really don't think I can think of any other kinds of breads Jenna's guessing that you used to work in subway for what you said no because I know a lot of things like pumpernickel you could substitute it for rye and most people don't know they wouldn't know the difference oh of course I should have thought of it earlier but we were talking about T'Challa and of course there's Chala bread someone in the chat said alt-right youtubers list breads I shall continue Claw should have been the main bad guy he was far more interesting and better acted how do you three feel about that oh pretzels wait can you re-read the question because now I'm just thinking of Claw should have been the main bad guy he was more interesting and better acted I'm not sure about better acted I just like Andy Circus and I thought that Claw was interesting to me so I was like yeah I'd take him as a main bad guy I'm not sure he would have made sense story-wise as a main bad guy I mean it would have to be a complete re-write to make him the main bad guy well it had to completely re-write a whole lot of things about Black Panther but Wolf how dare you implying things Wakanda would still lose the wall because the world finally had a reason to wipe that disease-infested eyesore of a continent off the map that's just wow love you guys love you guys keep up the good work wish they didn't kill Claw and made him made him sound made him sound isn't that maybe he just wanted him to sound exactly like Smeagol I'm not sure there's many interpretations of that oh my god Mola I was just re-watching your show well now it's live death to all colonizers legato blue summons from Trigun who wanted to kill everybody is a better villain than Killmonger message wait somebody donated and then message retracted interesting I didn't even know you could do that that's very strange pouring myself a nice glass of rhino milk for the stream seriously though good to see you here CSS there you go friendly I've been watching each of your channels for a long time and I find those to be both informal entertaining the vitality and passion put into each video featured is not easy to find this day and age so keep up the good work and stay safe thank you very much Illumina fucking hell Illumina I believe Illumina and that was a hundred dollars as well so Christian very generous and that was a nice thing that he said about all of us you guys should be like oh my god thank you yeah oh my god I'm so sorry so it said so out of the loop what the fuck is rhino milk so when you milk a rhino that's the liquid that comes out yeah it well we assume MCU Ultron incorporates Tony's personality while originally was mapped off Hank Pym and was far more creepy logical in his motivation I would assume the comic version of Ultron was probably better than the film but obviously I don't know and yeah I did know that he was Hank Pym was involved as well they didn't do that with the MCU the dark world is a plot hole in my brain ah that's actually you could actually say that for pretty much all of us plot hole in my brain for more than three friends and I went to see the new predator movie first words out of my mouth when I walked out was fuck that movie we were all pissed well my video should be satisfactory then because I hated it we're gonna say something then someone I feel like I might have interrupted somebody well I gotta I do have to be on my way I will catch you guys later on the flim flam it's been fun Rex we'll see you next what was it Wednesday was the plan I will see you next day ok oh there it goes ok so um no that faggots gone I know we can actually have a proper stream now for fuck's sake speaking of Norse mythology have you guys read Rick Reardon's the latest book series Magnus Chase that are based on Norse myth I mean I certainly haven't Wolf might have probably no they have so many books to read fucking nude people keep like telling me have you read this book why don't you read this book and I'm like I can have 200 books I have yet to read aw damn we got one for rags it says I was a console gamer a few years ago now I'm a maniac I just bought an rtx 2080ti rags was right he said love you guys too I'm so sorry that rags just left he must have done that deliberately he must hate you but uh thank you thank you very much um big difference between Loki and Killmonger was that Loki was adopted by his father's murderer yeah that's actually a good point in terms of uh I think this is the thing Loki has a lot to say about that in the uh in the film um it reminds me of uh do you guys I know Wolf has seen Game of Thrones have you seen it Jay I've not well I've seen the first season and then I sort of forgot where I was in it and I haven't picked it back up yeah actually sorry it's season two well it's not too much of a spoiler or anything it's Theon is uh told to appreciate uh what Ned Stark did for him and he's he has a line where he says something like yeah everyone keeps telling me how I should be so uh thankful to my captors um for how well they treated me or something like that and it's kind of similar to Loki's position in a way I don't know the connection um just looking at the last Jedi is a troll movie help because if you look at it with the trash that followed it looks like Ryan and Kennedy were trolling I mean there's a lot of theories about that but I'm pretty convinced that was something they thought was great I mean millions of people thought it was great too you know a lot of very respected channels on YouTube thought it was a masterpiece so I'm convinced that they believe they did a great piece of work and that's they're not very respected anymore well yes there's been a a resurgence of I can't even know what to call it stuff happened uh it's been fun but I have to go to work tomorrow good night good night sir um humans come from Africa apes come from Europe what didn't everybody everybody was apes at one point though right or whatever I don't know what the species genus common ancestors whatever that seeing venom tonight when can I expect a review uh it's at the beginning of this video but basically I'm not doing a video on it because I can't really see much of a reason to um rags profile pic is cropped love that floofy sheeb touch I thought oh yeah well it would have been cropped because obviously it's just the face sure from x-men first class is the best most evil villain that was Kevin Bacon wasn't it I can't remember what his goal was I think so his power was to like turn explosions into energy and then like kill people with it or something you could also make himself younger I don't know yeah uh fun note staying in the comics kills himself so Tony won't claim a moral victory over him by arresting him that could have been cool in the film obviously and all I remember from first class was when they like tried to nuke the each other and then they're like let's nuke the beach instead oh yeah the Russians and like the Americans just go yeah let's nuke the beat it that's a weird problem and then uh Magneto is like no I'm gonna nuke all of you then and then um Xavier's like no don't do it and then he gets shot in the spine and then all the nukes fall and then the Russians and Americans are like let's us beat friends now and then they completely forget that they try to nuke the beach and yeah I hope you invite weekend warrior to eFap with you that is something I'm gonna look into because a lot of people have been asking for weekend warrior obviously we got to do the hero response first which we can't have a guest for that because it's gonna take so long even with me rags and wolf I like pineapple on pizza from my point of view you are the heretics different reader response theory I guess well you know that is an Anakin quote and Anakin was a bad person so there you go I'm going to say that you're a bad person at least he's better than the dark elf that's true and someone said Ezekiel so thank you all for the donations I will read any more that come through after the next video which is going to be specifically chosen because for one I really like predator it's like one of my favourite films wolf is aware of it and I believe Jay watched it today in prep for this so you got it nice and fresh Jay's channel involves responding to cinema sins and that's something we haven't covered on this podcast yet because we find like how would I explain this cinema sins is like a joke to us like the other people like just right or whoever else they really try and come across as intellectually breaking something down and offering insight and it's like okay let's see how accurate they were just like captain midnight was sort of going for that cinema sins you guys you guys go ahead I got a piss real quick okay wait for you to come back you're right no you can go ahead do it do it cinema I mean what's your did you ever like cinema sins Jay was there ever a point where you watched them and thought this was fun when I started I've always just enjoyed watching cinema sins just sort of as background noise but I think as soon as I started making my series which I did because I did I made it because I enjoyed the content I wanted to sort of well basically I made it because I just sort of wanted to make something and I thought this would be a fun thing to do and then as soon as I started thinking about the videos more I thought yeah when you think about them too much it's much harder to enjoy I like it as background noise I don't really like it as anything was there a video that made you go hang on a minute like you like this too much the video on the force awakens literally starts with you know how the opening scene of the force awakens is Snoke's Star Destroyer moving in front of a planet and it's silhouetted in front of this of the planet the first still on that is Jeremy says it's a shadow and he he says he describes the sun as I'm sorry I have to figure out what he said because there are lots of layers to it of just he said it was a shadow when it was clearly a silhouette and you could tell because the stars behind it you know what it's like a moon or whatever right or like a another planet or something and he's like that's a shadow and then he also says when he mentions the sun he says this galaxy's sun like how can you say the word like that's not what a galaxy is a galaxy if it only had one sun that would just be that would just be a sun so you know I was thinking there are like several flaws and we're like about two seconds in the video so that's the thing that made me go you know what I think maybe this isn't this isn't flawless movie criticism what dare I ask did you think he was flawless at one point maybe when I was about 12 okay because I was going to say I remember the novelty when he first released videos I believe Avengers is one of the first films he covered and somebody sent the video to me with the tagline it's like the film is not as good as you think it is and I remember watching it and being frustrated and being like this ridiculous but then as time went on I was like oh he does this to like all films and I started kind of enjoying it just as a sort of I don't know someone making some you could watch a film and then you could watch his video and be like oh yeah that's kind of a fun take on it I guess but then it got to the point where I was just like good god the jokes are not funny anymore and I can't even tell how tonally I can't tell how to take his videos like I'm not sure if I should be learning from this or if I should be just pretending nothing actually comes from a place of intelligence or not I don't even know what he was trying to get across with it and then I watched a bunch of videos criticizing him and I was like yeah I'm out the only video I'm sorry you can go ahead the strangest thing about it is that whenever he's asked about what he's what he's talking about why he does what he does he'll give different responses just sort of depending on how the question was phrased so I've seen him say oh no it's all satire it's all just jokes we don't in turn to be taken seriously we're not making actual film criticism a lot of the stuff we do is wrong and that's intentional for satire and then in other interviews he'll say no we think that there are serious problems with Hollywood at the moment and we made this series to just sort of show those problems and to get across what we think the actual problems with movies are and what needs to be fixed so how can you go into making a series with both of those viewpoints and not come out with like you know those are conflicting ideas you can't put both in the same series the same video and a lot of people started to compare his videos to his actual takes right like he had a channel I'm pretty sure he took the channel down now where he actually like did his initial reactions to films and they were like how come your initial reactions often reflect these videos if your initial reactions are actual criticism and then these videos are just jokes because that makes sense and yeah and so it's gone to the point where I don't intend to ever watch his videos I'll cover him because he's kind of a joke but he is probably the most popular if you could call it film reviewer of sorts on YouTube I'm pretty sure he has like the highest numbers I think it might be the only video or videos that I liked from him was his I think it's like a two part series on completely eviscerating the fourth transformers movie because oh my god that movie was was that the one with Megatron could transform into cubes and flow I can't even remember it that movie was magical and how incompetent it was well you really felt those two and a half hours drag like I can't you know you can ask me the same question if you're like why did you watch it I can't answer the question myself but I may as well ask you well I watched it when it came out because it was like oh they're trying to actually do something different from like the first three which are like the exact same thing but it gets progressively worse so I was like well maybe it'll be good and then it was like no it was so it was so much worse than the others so much worse that Michael Bay was like let's go back with the fifth one and try to rekindle all the things people still hated about the first three but hated slightly less than number four and they got a fifth one as well right that was the newest one that came out that was what he did he undid pretty much everything from the fourth one including the Megatron turning into a cube cloud it's it's hard to talk about that movie because it just makes me laugh every time I think about how retarded it was well if both of you have either heard of or know anything about but what you take on cinema wins I really like cinema wins I haven't seen I mean I know of him but I I'm just not really interested I'm just, I want the in between I'm not a huge fan of either like I don't want to wholly have us like I need to watch more of cinema wins but I think cinema wins is more accurate to the film question mark I haven't seen enough of him to actually claim that definitively and I do like the idea that you try and be positive about everything it's a noble endeavor I suppose but I mean it's if you're actually like if you're actively ignoring sort of writing issues just to make people feel better about a film isn't that just as bad as ignoring the good things in a film to make it look bad if you know what I mean I think either way when the premise of the show is just to point out everything good about something people should understand that you're going to ignore the things that are good or bad respectively would you say that they're no worse than each other then in a way? I personally I prefer cinema wins just because generally I find it a lot easier to enjoy a film than to dislike it plus I think it's genuinely easier to most films will have something that you can praise about them I mean you know you can take what's it really just everyone agrees is a trash film like a room I've not seen the room so I couldn't oh my goodness I know it's on my bucket list you should definitely check that one out you'll have some fun with it but um yeah no you're right there are always ways to just argue that something's good if it has a human in it you could be like I relate to this human because they do XYZ and it's neat because they make choices but you'll often have to like the guy who's doing the Killmongers you have to just sort of skit around certain things when something is a problem it has to actually be a problem but as in with cinema since format with cinema since format something has to be like actually an issue before they can really talk about it but for something to just be a win it seems more like it can you can you can praise something for not being shit like you can be you can say this could be worse and that's technically praise could you not do the reverse of that this could have been better I mean you could but in my experience they don't do that yeah sure um but yeah let's let's give this a shot this is actually relatively new as well that's why I was interested because I didn't realize he hadn't covered this yet so I can see how cinema sins is doing these days I was supposed to be in 13 minutes or less thing oh it's for clickbait I reckon I mean it's a it's a big clickbait trope to have a number in the title of whatever it is but why I don't know but I mean apparently it works it gets more people to click what you do if there's a number in the that's crazy because this is the thing I'd read the title and I'd be like what do you mean in 13 minutes or less does he not know how long his video is you know the video is the video is 13 minutes and 42 seconds so it's more alright yeah whatever he should be a legend and it's a sin that he's not didn't he go to jail for tax fraud I don't know that's probably why he's not a hero or legend or whatever and besides I like the last action hero so screw you man it's uh it's very much a satirey film so maybe it's complicated to argue why it's uh it's good but yeah he's made some good films I agree was that a sin? how the fuck is that a sin it's right no he also made it a sin for the biceps so oh it's a sin that he's not a legend how is he question isn't he a legend because he made these I don't know why am I even bothered this is how it's going to be through the whole video isn't it oh shit sorry I've gone ahead a bit he should be a legend and it's a sin that he's not bi-ception that's just like a meaningless bi-ception that's like there are some biceps on the screen let's say something with bi in it that's literally like one of the most iconic parts to the film people love this bit why would you sin it you would unsin it you would give it negative not to mention that wouldn't be bi-ception because that would have to be a bicep within a bicep that's not what this is this is like a dual bicep next to each other a dual bicep pretending to be adversaries when you're really friends measuring their dicks just for the benefit of the audience cliche he really likes the cliche thing doesn't he yeah I'm not even is that a cliche pretending to be adversaries when you're actually friends to measure I think I've seen it a couple of times I like with that if you've been a cliche at the point that this movie was made though probably not but I don't think you would care 87 this came out of it yeah of course you wouldn't care pretending to be adversaries when you're really friends measuring their dicks just for the benefit of the audience cliche what's the matter the CA got you pushing too many pencils are they really arm wrestling in midair have you ever tried that it's nearly impossible it's like Ernie saw over the top four well if you arm wrestle in midair you need both parties to essentially be fair and hold their elbow in the same position on the other person doing it in good faith which I'm assuming because they've done this before is what's happening it is tough to arm wrestle in midair though he's right now that I think about it there was when he referenced that cliche there was Han and Lando when they first met but you know there is a reason for them to hate each other though and he actually betrays Han as well that's true four months before this came out doesn't have forgotten this guy's name was it Dylan yes black guy's Dylan so doesn't Dylan betray Dutch anyway well he doesn't betray him he just tricks him he says we're doing this for X reason and then turns out it's Y and he's like well I got you to do the job anyway they're good by the end of it and yeah this is the thing Arnie assumes they're friends there's no reason why he wouldn't assume they're friends at this point up until that I imagine if everything had gone right he'd never spoken to him after what he did you know like that that would be too much sort of thing couldn't help himself general my team always works alone you know that I'm afraid we all have our orders major and that fucking works well if Arnie's team lives by its rules it turns down this job and we have that's the point they accepted the job under the assumption that they were working alone and then they throw Dylan in as well and he's like that's not the deal and he's like yeah well we all have our orders no moving so of course they have to accept any and all last minute stipulations that's his general of course he has to accept stipulations from his general okay Arnold, Apollo, Creed, Jesse, the body man this was kind of the expendables before the expendables felt the need to exist also how is that a sin let me just spam the pause button like how the fuck dare you Jesus he just points out something that's a thing he's like yeah okay, Sid oh it's like 1987 was giving a terrible warning to California and Minnesota that only Elon Musk could have figured out but he was only 16 is anyone paying attention to this? I think I am but nothing's going in my brain it's like 1987 was giving a terrible warning to California that Elon Musk could have figured out but he was only 16 and nobody listened okay of course that's a sin too okay the best jungle camouflage is face makeup designed to make you look like you like a wrought iron fence that's halfway through being knocked over someone in chat might know better than me if a monk is there he might know better than me but I'm pretty sure that's legit that's like how you do actual covering because the idea is that you're not supposed to cover your entire you're not supposed to cover all your skin that's not the goal you're supposed to break it up so you don't look like a face as in you can actually keep I know it's the I can't remember if it's like a British-American difference or something but I know that face camo stuff it doesn't have to cover every part of your skin that's kind of where I'm going with this it's supposed to break your face up that's the point of it I'm pretty sure this is not not actually a thing that's wrong but you wouldn't know that from his I could just google it but I don't think I can be asked because we'll be here forever if we google everything he says no such thing old buddy this is getting better better minutes what kind of elite crew strike force alpha unit ranger sealed delta team thing doesn't maybe sort out these details I don't know before the mission begins well it looks like he assumed they did have backup he just didn't check it I don't know is that such a big and I don't think he would have denied the mission if he had known that previously he said he wants to work alone that's another thing yeah I don't know this doesn't doesn't seem like a problem but again this is interesting because it's like so is this a legit conversation we're having right now about a flaw potentially in the script or you just are you joking yeah who knows okay if this is eye black to help with glare from the sun like baseball players use you've gone too far if this is like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder you've gone way too far well that's not as far as Robert Downey Jr when no it's not specifically less far I assume it's partially a reference to the fact that he's like Billy's like you know I would have to check but I assumed especially considering his character that he's more Native American compared to the rest of them and that that could be actual like I don't know tribal style paint that he's using instead of he did like take off his shirt for like no real he's the hunter out of the group isn't he arguably spiritual or something but he just references I think that would go and like go with his character but it doesn't matter because this is a joke question he had to beep ladies and gentlemen the former governor of the great state of Minnesota no one will be that's in the movies not a real thing seated during the barely visible walking through the jungle portion of the movie what why was anybody what does that mean it doesn't make any sense are you saying it's not exciting I don't know if I was going to if I was going to make the point that a part of the movie isn't exciting I would have made it to like five minutes of credits at the beginning that's just sort of over big footage of people arriving in places no one will be seated so as in like people are going to go get on the edge of their seat maybe yeah someone in charge said I think he's saying it's boring it's like okay fine if that's what he's saying fine walking through the jungle portion of the movie in anything to you I'll adjust another rebel patrol cool cool cool is anyone going to mention the pirate plank behind you that's not a that's not a part of the helicopter that they found it's not a plank it's a pirate plank is this supposed to be like an ironic joke or something why would it be a pirate plank I really hope this was I really hope this was intended theoretically but how would you know just just bear with me here what if what if that's actually Noah's arc and he had a plank so he could throw the animals off when they misbehaved that would totally make sense in the world of Predator and this is where Noah's arc landed so that's why there's a plank I just love the idea that it's you know I'm 90% sure that's a part of the helicopter they found but if there's a random pirates plank in the middle of the set why would it be a pirate plank I guess that's what his point is it's like you have to comment on it okay because it's super obvious and man made and utterly demands you comment on it show off you literally landed 15 minutes ago I'm pretty sure your water supply is doing just fine no need to bear grills the local wildlife so quickly but you'd be saving water by doing that plus that's showing what kind of character he is he's that one with nature a little bit that's kind of the why even bother right the water grills the local wildlife so quickly it's a sin guys bird kicking seems likely what why would that be unlikely they're both specialist groups that do hard task jobs and Hopper was assigned to the exact same for the exact same reasons as Arnie's team was why wouldn't I can buy that they've met they're both ragtag teams that do these sorts of missions that's why we would assume that they probably are aware of each other because they'll often be chosen between but fine someone in the comment in the chat said you're the worst predator I've ever heard of but you have heard of me I I know this man seems likely also didn't the dog tags say see he hopper maybe old Jim is just fine knocking back some bruise somewhere and poor Calvin Ezekiel hopper got predator instead is he is that a name or rank can he be a rank I suppose it could I don't know I genuinely have no idea but he does say Jim Hopper and that does say see he hopper but for starters it could be that he went you know Jim was a middle name he just didn't go by other than with his friends or something or it could be a rank I don't know but fine to look corporal ensign yeah it could be that again I'd need to talk to a military friend to be able to know that for sure actually couldn't we just um let's just google predator Jim Hopper we're gonna be googling half the shit for this video I'm just curious if they've got like a full name or anything see he is not a rank it's always name captain Jim hopper was the commander of the us army blah blah blah blah blah yeah it doesn't mention like a full name or anything I mean that could be that could be a mistake but again yeah it wouldn't fucking matter but yeah fair enough I don't know I'd have to get someone else to confirm if it's a real mistake then you know what fair enough that seems to be the point of cinema sins is to point out inconsequential stuff rather than anything game breaking yeah that's the thing I'd give him that one but I don't know if it matters at all to anything he saw a guy chopping wood two lookouts in a nest some guys eating and a headshot assassination but he did not see any fuel dumps yes there is one but he doesn't know that and neither do any of the rest of these guys Dutch sets the truck rolling into the camp with a bomb on it but hang on he said he's gonna attack the fuel dump and what he means by that is send the truck into the fuel dump as far as I know why isn't it reasonable that he would have seen it like we only this seems like a weird thing to because we're assuming that Dutch would have looked around the whole place we don't see every isn't this the area that he fires the car into yeah I remember and he says he's gonna attack the fuel dump meaning either that or some guys eating and a headshot assassination but some guys eating I'm pretty sure that area is the fuel dump see any fuel dumps yes there is one but he doesn't know that and neither do any of the rest of these guys Dutch sets the rolling into the camp with a bomb on it but no one ever sees him or looks back to see where the truck came from that's completely reasonable they assume that the car has just gone off his tracks they want to stop it yeah like you know what you know what I need to do right now is look over over at the truck to see if there's anyone there if you see a car runaway car go past you I imagine especially if this is a place where you chill you probably the first instinct would be like shit stop the car you would I think it's reasonable to assume that it's gone off on its own as opposed to someone's attacking you but whatever and how convenient for him that the old ass truck that isn't even being used as a truck anymore still has perfect alignment and continue straight into its dark it was already aimed didn't need to have perfect alignment because it was already in position and we already knew it worked because they were using the actual rotary to use a well I believe I watched this film recently like stop trying to these are the SIDS you guys even plan anything when you had a grenade launcher just buy a dozen grenades in here because they fucking launched a car that exploded into a building that killed like seven people why would you not want to open with that why would you fire a dozen grenades when you one and get the same job done why would you plan things when you cannot do that and blow shit up and they knock out with stealth all of the watchtower people before doing the like launching grenade shit this is a very bizarre sin as well and yes there's a hostage they want to save but I'll be damned if anything they've done so far shows any regard for the life of that hostage they don't even know where the hostage is yeah I'd agree with that it's pretty reckless they could have hurt him in the process but they do find out the hostage is dead anyway but no yeah I'll give them that but again like it's a part of the genre being that they're supposed to be 80s action people which they do ask about the hostage at one point someone in the chat said why fight a battle when you can go home there you go apparently Carl Weathers is a great ventriloquist because I didn't see his lips move an inch when he said that I swear to God no one in this scene filmed this scene on the same day this is as good a time as any to point out that the subtitles for this movie keep switching between telling me these gorillas are speaking Spanish and Russian like they're even trying to tell me what the English would be they just keep saying speaking Spanish and speaking Russian that's because you're not supposed to be able to understand it's not important yeah it doesn't matter to the film whatsoever in fact the aspect that they're speaking Russian is all we need for the plot because I believe Mack brings it up he says that some of these guys were Russian the subtitles are not for people who want to know what the rest of the dialogue is because it's not important it's just for people who can't actually hear the film for everybody's this is funny why even tell me the language they're speaking if I don't get to know the words because the fact that they're Russian is important to the plot not what they say the fact that they're Russian and like even if even if that wasn't important even if what language they were speaking wasn't important if you're not supposed to understand the dialogue anyway what else should the subtitles say it's just like words yeah for all we know the words were get them or blow them up or run away it's like do you really need that was that detrimental without it I don't know he's supposed this is a movie that's been out for what fucking coming up to 40 years like you could have you could have given it a rewatch to know that them being Russian is actually important to Dutch in terms of figuring out what Dylan's been up to but never mind speaking if I don't get to know the words also why hasn't the predator killed any of these motherf***ers he took out an entire other team of American special forces you're asking why the predator didn't assault the base that had like 30 to 40 people in it isn't he just like that's not what the predator does why would the predator maybe the new predator would do that but yeah see this is why a lot of people are like does cinemasins watch these movies and you're like I think he does but he deliberately plays dumb with a lot of this stuff like how could you assume these are problems I'm here to save the hostages but what the predators don't know these Russian Spanish assholes are here okay fine let's foolishly say he was strong enough to stay upright with the kind of recoil that bfg would kick back still that kind of minigun spits out up to 6000 rounds per minute not only are there not nearly enough shells on the ground but considering we see this gun firing for about two minutes during this I mean I'll give you this fine just who cares though yeah it's ridiculous that he's one manning a f***ing portable minigun the only reason they get away with it in Terminator is that it's a machine that could probably actually pick it up and use it like that but you know Jesse Ventura is not only a man but he actually has wounds as well it's like yeah but that's the point that the film is like look at how ridiculously overpowered these people are and then look what happens to them when they come up against the predator Jesse Ventura could probably do that I mean this is the thing we could have who knows maybe this is a custom made minigun maybe it's just Jesse Ventura's magic but your blocked bloodbath the 12,000 rounds of ammunition alone would have weighed almost 900 pounds wow he actually went to that length to prove that this is a problem I'm impressed we assume he did we have no idea if that's like accurate at all that's actually a good point yeah for all we know that's not true but assuming it i