You can stay on the agenda. Go for it. All right. Welcome, everyone. This is the weekly TSC call. This is public call. Anybody is welcome to join this and in and contribute. There are two requirements, being ready to live by the antitrust policy and the code of conduct. All of which I suspect everybody knows by now. So we have quite a bit to discuss that I put on the agenda. Hey, can you refresh? I've got one for the election there that should be in there. I had it just a minute ago. So refresh. Sorry, I don't know. Apologize. I already have an agenda. I tend to this others. Is there more? No, no, there it is. Sorry, I didn't see it. It's OK. I think we should wait a bit. Let's get through the quarterly reports first. So there were two quarterly reports that were submitted, one for Cactus, one for Cattipur. I didn't see anything requiring specific discussion by the TSC. But as otherwise, please let me know if anybody has any questions or comments or if one of the project representatives want to highlight anything specific for the TSC beyond what's in the report already. OK, if not, let's keep on going. I do want to highlight the Avalon report is due. So please, if you're part of this project, make sure it happens. Otherwise, we're actually doing pretty well in terms of where we are. This is the start of October. So we are getting into the Q4 reports. But so we have, except for Avalon lagging a bit, we have got all the Q3 reports. So we're in pretty good shape. And just to chase after people, it looks like the Cactus report was only seen by about half of the TSC and likewise with Calipur. So just a nudge to TSC members to try to review those. I think it's important that we get the majority, if not all, the check marks in there each week. And as a matter of fact, I've noticed that having this call and linking to the report seem to be a good trigger for this to happen. And so when there is no call, we just keep a week. Things don't seem to be done or reviewed the same way. So if anything, I think at least semi-regular call seems to be helpful in getting these things done. So TSC election, Dave, what's going on? There's been a bit of hiccups. Yeah, so I'm just going to try to keep this brief. We had to restart the election this weekend because we had some issues with naming of one of the candidates. And so some of you may have received two ballots. Just disregard the first one, cast your ballot. And the second one, this does not allow people to vote twice. The first one is dead, dead. You won't be able to use it. If you already did cast your vote, you need to cast it again using the second ballot. If you had cast it before Monday at 10.30 AM Pacific. Correct. Thanks, Brian. Yeah. So that's really what's been going on. Other than that, we had a really clean voter rolls. And we've been able to get emails out to pretty much everybody. We have 88 out of almost 300, or sorry, almost 800 people vote. So make sure you get your votes cast before too long. We're going to go through the 10th of October, like midnight on the 10th of October Pacific time, is when I'm going to shut it down. Dave, there's a lot of emails coming into elections that people haven't gotten their ballots. I sent one right after I cast my vote for somebody from the Accenture team. What's going on with those? I'll be going through those today. And onesie twosies trying to get everybody make sure they have a ballot. And yeah, so I'm just going to address them as they come in. Yesterday, we got hung up on dealing with some other things. But yeah, it's first the top of my list for this morning to go through all of these. OK, I mean, I sent mine on Monday, so then I haven't heard anything back. We were dealing with the restarting of the ballots. And yeah, we were doing other things. I will be responding this morning. For folks who don't know, there's an elections email list, which we are on in a few of the other folks, TSC members, I believe, handling these deliverability issues where sometimes, even though we put it into the system, the mail isn't able to get to the voter themselves. So we have a second path through Salesforce Marketing Cloud that we've used to reach all the voters to make sure that, presuming that has different deliverability issues, perhaps better deliverability to look out for a ballot if they don't have one to let us know through that elections list. So there's a process here. And I just want folks to know that there's also this transparency to this additional group of folks on the elections list. Yeah, so as Tracy was saying, there are quite a few people reporting not having received the email. And I think an email needs to be sent to all the voters, telling them about these two ballots. Because I know Rice sent an email to the TSC list. It says part two, which I don't blame you, right? But it wasn't quite explicit what that meant is that people need to be told, if you have cast the first ballot of a vote with the first ballot, forget it. This is gone. And so you need to cast again your vote with the second ballot. And so because we're going to miss people, otherwise. I know there's roughly a dozen people who have reported not receiving a ballot, not many, many, many. And we did send an email out using Marketing Cloud yesterday evening. Maybe it had gone out this morning. I needed to double check with Jessica. But the CA team, we crafted an email explaining what happened. I talked to Jessica last night at about 8 p.m. Pacific time to get it queued up. I'm not sure if it has gone out yet or might have gone out last night. But I know it's being queued, and I know it's going out. OK, I have not received it yet. So I didn't know if it was done or not. And I wonder how useful that is. I mean, it'll be useful. You'll probably see a lot more than 12 people reporting that they haven't gotten their ballots. But it doesn't help them cast their vote, right? If they don't have the ballot, there's no way to cast their vote. Yeah, of course. But that's a different problem. I agree with you, Tracy. But we also need to tell people who was going that there is this restart. I don't think the restart was communicated quite well. But the other thing is there is a Maria Teresa Nieto said that her name was misspelled. Was that fixed? So no, that one wasn't fixed. So I copied and pasted these from the nomination statements. And so if it was misspelled on the wiki, it's misspelled on the ballot. I have updated the procedure for next year so that the week we spend confirming everything, part of the process will be confirming names on the ballots. So a ruin one, that one was my fault because I had misnamed his nomination thing. And so that was corrected on the wiki. But there was like just a timing issue. And we can't keep restarting this vote. I'm sorry. Well, I agree. But I, for one, voted with the first bad art just before you send the second one. And then I saw Maria's email and I was like, oh, they are going to restart again. I'm holding off until I know for sure I don't have to go through this voting process again and again. So I think you should respond to mine. Maybe you have, not on the list, I didn't see any response to let her know. We apologize, but at this point we'll have to keep it the way it is. Yeah, it's top of my list to go through and respond to all the emails in the election mailing list this morning. So as soon as we got this call, I'll be going through each of those and addressing them. Okay, thank you. Any other comments or questions? Yeah, what was the address from which the email was sent? Because I can't find mine either. Although I did get email from Rai, but I think that was to the TSC. The email comes from, just hold on a moment. It comes from civs.cs.cornell.edu. C-I-V-S. So Charlie, Indigo, Victor, Sierra at cs.cornell.edu. And what email do you expect it to come to, Chris? My work email. Okay, well, let me double check that that's what we have for your voter rolls, for our voter rolls. I'm hoping to have an email that says Chris works. You'd be more explicit. Master saying 24. All right, let's not spend too much time on the specific case, sorry, Chris. Chris, I'm gonna ping you directly on chat.hyperlegio.org with the email address that I have for you, okay? Ah, is that gonna work? That would be fine, but again, I didn't get an email, that's what I'm saying. I've checked all my emails. Well, maybe we have the wrong email for you. Maybe not eligible to vote. I am, I checked. He totally is, he's in there. I know. I didn't see it at the given time. All right, I have enough of this discussion, guys. Clearly it's not been perfect. We'll have to make it to keep improving, but let's make sure everybody gets to vote at least. All right, thank you for your efforts, Dave. Let's keep moving. Yeah, borough. So there was a brief discussion on this last, on the last call. I wanted to, you know, just give everybody a chance to speak up if they wanted to. I mean, Silas was pretty, you know, candid in his report, saying that, you know, they are busy with other things in Monax and they don't expect much activity, if at all, in the next several months. And so he was candidly asking, you know, well, I don't know what you want us to do with this project, but I've heard, you know, the people who have spoken up so far have all said, hey, we use at least the borough EVM in our project. You know, this is an important piece for us. We want to keep borough. And so my assumption is we have acknowledged Silas, you know, notification that there's not going to be much activity for the next quarter, but we're okay with this and we're not going to take any other action, you know, with regard to borough. Does anybody want, is it really cool with this or does anybody want to say anything else? I guess as someone who's not involved in the EVM process, my only question would be, are there folks that are paying attention to any vulnerabilities or fixing bugs if there are any? Hi, this is Silas. Well, there's certainly us. There you are. There's all, hi. Welcome. There's also, ah, yes, no, no, it's been a little while. I had to find the Zoom passcode. There is another company that has been building on top of borough that I haven't caught up with recently, but I know that one of our other maintainers caught wind of their mentioning borough. So I think the name of the company's escaped me. I've put it on a previous report. So there's us, there's them, but yeah, there's not, there's not an incredibly high amount of usage flux, I guess, to be finding issues, but I mean, it's not particularly worse than before. There's also the other piece of work that I could have mentioned that Sean mentioned is that he's been working with Solang and getting the WASM support, so Solidity to WASM is in there.  I think maybe I was slightly, I wasn't trying to be doom and gloom. I've got no desire to wrap, burrow up, but I also don't in the near term have an ability to sort of guarantee that work will be happening on it. It's essential for Monax, there's more stuff to do, but yeah, it has always been kind of, oh, we just need a few extra people to be interested and we'll have all this stuff done and that's kind of jammed tomorrow argument, so I just wanted to be clear what the next little while was looking, so but if there's no urgent need to kind of worry about sunsetting burrow, then I think that I would expect to see a pick up in activity, certainly from us, hopefully from others next year. Okay, well, again, thank you for the transparency here, but back to Nathan's question, do you have an answer if there's like a critical problem, severity, like security issue, would you guys be able to address it? Yeah, yeah, it's not like a zero time available. It would have to go through the GitHub issues. You know, it's still like monitored, we're still making fixes, we're just not doing a lot of feature work. Okay, thank you. I saw Brian has his hands up. Yeah, I don't want to take any time from the other TSC members who want to comment on this, but in my mind, there's, you know, eventually I think this is better addressed on your proposal around project maturity, but for me, a project like this, there's three things to think about it. I think the most important thing is just as Silas confirmed, if a security hole was noticed that there's time and resources and attention enough to be able to at least address that and push out an update and, you know, work with the security team on, you know, coordinating a certain, notice if that's required, that sort of thing. I'd say the second most minimal thing would be if other developers did show up that there's just enough attention paid to be able to help them bootstrap into solving the problem themselves and then helping them be a part of contributing into the code base, right? Perhaps nurturing new maintainers in the course of that, but at least, you know, not a closed door to fixing of bugs or those sorts of things if that other help materializes. And then the third kind of thing is just, you know, supporting newbie users, you know, people who have kind of beginner questions. There's not a lot of those that I see in the borough community, but that seems to be a small trickle still and I think that's an essential part of helping grow new contributors. But those in my mind would be the three ranked kind of things that if those weren't there, then it's time to talk about, you know, a path similar to stay composer or back into labs or something. But I feel like those are all here. I'm hearing that in Silas' words, I think. And even the prospect beyond that of some new work, but yeah, I just thought that might be helpful. All right, thank you. Any other comments from anyone? Yeah, I mean, my main concerns would be the security issues that we just discussed, you know, if something comes up. But also, you know, if you're on the main hyperledger page, all the projects are sort of up there with equal footing. And I know it wouldn't help borrows health per se, but you know, do we want to somehow discourage people from starting to use it if it doesn't have things dedicated to it.  So, you know, that'd be my concern is if someone comes in and tries it and they're not getting support that they need, then it gives hyperledger a bad name in general. Not just the- Is that much different than Brian's third point? Well, I forget which one of Brian's. I think it was the last one, right? About helping bootstrap in the community and people were in there, right? And, you know, making sure that there's not a, that there's not silence, you know, or crickets, you know, if somebody does actually have questions about borrower, right? I mean, that's what I would agree. I agree with that point. And I think if there were people who were contributing stuff and I didn't get the thing from Silas' note that it wasn't just like, hey, we're not adding new features. Clearly, I think if there are bugs in there and I guess the other one would be if people did want to contribute and we're making fixes, right? That you don't end up with a backlog of like, you know, 70 polar class, right? And again, I didn't get that feeling that that's what Silas was meaning in his note. So I guess, Mark, I guess you see a difference between being out there and Brian's point of addressing it when people, if somebody complained that there was no attention given to it. I think Mike was intended more, you know, there's nothing, if someone's coming in new to Hyperledger, there's nothing right now that indicates the health, you know, and this gets into the other conversation about the health of the products that, you know, would steer people, you know, towards one project or another based on the community health. So I agree with you on that, Mark. And I think we should defer that part because, you know, I have on the agenda discussion of maturity level and I think it touches on this, you know, the members I made, we heard civil people talk about the confusion about the greenhouse, you know, it's very hard for people to know what's going on. And so clearly we haven't at least to do, you know, at least to figure out how to better communicate what's going on in the project so that people who have no background come in there. I wouldn't want to disgrace people from embarking and using borough, but I would want them to know, you know, what's going on so they have the right set of expectations. But you don't want to know, to have these people come in and they think this is a full-on project with a lot of people supporting it and they find themselves alone. That's bad. But we have to somehow manage to focus, you know, to communicate this kind of stuff. Tracy is on it. Yeah, so I have a question, like I know borough is used as the EVM engine for SAF, for sawtooth and for the EVM chain code. What does this mean for those sorts of integrations? You know, as kind of this slow period happens, I guess that's my question. Some other thing changes. Yeah, I mean, I think, well, like Tracy, on the fabric EVM chain code, right, as part of that project, right, that, wow, we have a separate issue outside of what Sadler's was mentioning, potentially. But, you know, as part of that, right, there were actually people related to fabric who actually are, I believe they're actually also maintainers now as well, if I remember correctly, but right before we even embarked on that on the fabric side, right, and putting it under fabric EVM chain code under the fabric moniker, we wanted to make sure that we had some people who were able to contribute and maintain that code. Now, we have a different issue as to whether those people can still contribute and maintain that code, but that's outside of Sadler's purview. Yeah, so I mean, the other thing is, I don't think it changes a huge amount on the EVM code, which has been stable for a while, and there certainly are fabric people who are proficient in that. I think Swetha's on the call. She's worked in that code. So that's not really, the relative amount of effort on that was really mostly maintenance. I think there are some EIP, some Ethereum improvement program changes that are yet to make it in. So I guess that is something that could do with happening, but the feature work was always elsewhere, really with Burrow. So the EVM remains fairly stable and I think there's a few people who can get in there and fix issues. Yeah, the EVM, we explicitly treat that as a slower changing, a more stable part of our API because of the integrations with Seth and fabric EVM chain code. All right, anything else? I would think we have said about everything that could be said, but, so again, I mean, you know, back to my statement earlier, what that means still is that for now, it's not like we're going to take any actions against Burrow, you know, I don't mean that in a negative way, just, you know, we are leaving it alone. We have acknowledged that, you know, we can't expect much activity for the next quarter and that's okay. All right, so then there are two issues. The first one, I wanted to see where we stand. It's this issue of, you know, rollover of projects tied to a single other project. So we discussed it a few times. I tried to assess whether there was interest for this. You know, when I asked, we literally had a vote on this, whether we should investigate, you know, developing a proposal for this, only Dan and Chris were against it. Some people were in support, a lot of people were like, well, I'm not sure. So we decided to move forward with it. And after that, there was a lot of discussion on the mailing list. Transact was targeted, which was never my intent.  Turns out that Transact that other users, even outside Hyperledger, so it wouldn't even be candidate for this policy if we had one. But I want to know whether there's still appetite to work on this or we should just shelve it. And that's it.  They can decide whether they want to carry on with this or shelve it themselves. You know, it's up to us. But I would figure it, you know, as part of the end of this term of the TSC, it'd be nice to clean the plate and see where we stand at least on the issues we have. So what do people think? This is Nathan. I still like this policy because it doesn't tell us anything about what the answer would be, but it gives us a trigger as the TSC to ask the question. And the hope is that that helps the projects recruit and support more than one platform if that is their original intent. And if, you know, that's not working out, we can help them find the place that will help them work better and work faster. I don't think there's any project that would say I don't want to be rolled into another project where we would forcefully roll them into the other project. It's really just a way for us to say, is the intent being met and if it's not being met, would we be better off in a different place? And then we have that conversation and move accordingly. All right, so we have at least one more who's ever continuing to work on this. Anyone else? I'm going to say what Nathan said. Man, that was well put, Nathan. I agree with everything you said. Okay. Who else? Chris. I also agree with where anything Nathan said. I think this is the right thing, just, it's a nudge, right? You guys should talk. We don't predetermine the outcome and we should respect their decision. Okay. Anyone else? I don't know if we needed a separate policy for this or if it should be the general policy that at every milestone period for a project that there's some assessment of the charter for that project, because it could be that the scope of the project in some other dimension is not being addressed or they're addressing some new scope that should be acknowledged. Interesting thought, then. Could you tease that out a little bit, Dan? Are you saying like every so often there's a gate or something? Yeah, so right now the main gates are just the, incubation to active, those kind of things, which we don't have many of. Otherwise we've got the quarterly reports is the time to do some other lightweight assessment of whether a project is addressing its scope or its charter. Sure, so you're proposing adding like additional gates or just making it more explicit that if your scope has changed, we need to reassess the project as a whole? Yeah, so I think within the review from going from incubation to active, at one point at least we had some text in there about is the project substantially fulfilling its charter scope. I think that text is still in there and have to go look. And so it seems like this would fall under that. Yeah, so Dan's point is we could, instead of focusing primarily on this notion that some project has set the expectation or the goal to support or to be platform neutral, we could look at it more broadly. Maybe we should look at the charter and say, hey, is there anything where they are at odd with the initial charter? And that would be one possible thing that could be looked at in that context, but it doesn't have to be limited to that. Okay, Angelo. Yeah, I was thinking, what happens if this, first of all, let me tell you that I agreed last time. So I still agree with this policy, but I was thinking now, what happens if this project for some reason is not used inside Hyperledger, but it's very used outside? I mean, for me it would be, it's still at that point say, okay, if you're so used outside, maybe there's an issue with the project in Hyperledger, but second, maybe you still deserve to be part of the ecosystem. I know, but I absolutely, I believe there is some wording in that proposal that addresses that very case. I don't know where it is. But I think you actually say, are effectively tied to a single other project, right? I think that that maybe I'm talking about that in outside. See, but Angelo, the last sentence of the first paragraph says, being tied to a single other project within Hyperledger and beyond. That's what's meant outside of Hyperledger. And beyond, okay, so maybe I missed that, okay, cool. Well, maybe it should be better phrased, I don't know, but that was my idea was like, I agree with you that if there's a project that doesn't have any other uses and other projects outside of Hyperledger, but it's very popular outside of Hyperledger, we don't want to kill it for sure. And then I'm fine. And in fact, we wouldn't be able to roll it into another project. There's nothing to roll it in anyway. So I think that's, you know, this was really more the example of a project, you know, I'll take Explorer for better and for worse, you know, it's like Explorer needs to post fabric and then at some point you say, you know what? It's really a piece of fabric and maybe we should fold it into fabric, you know, it's this kind of situation. So we don't have to, I don't mean for us to, you know, hash out all the details here, but what I'm hearing is there is still enough interest to keep this alive. Nobody has spoken in favor of just killing it now, saying, no, forget this. Did I miss that? Don't be shy. I'm in favor of keeping it alive. I just didn't know if we should roll it over into any other discussions. It may be useful to consider in the context of the next point of the project health point. This is also why I had tabled it off before and not even put it back on the agenda. So maybe it's good enough for now. Thank you for your input, guys. I'm satisfied with where we stand. We will keep it on the backlog. We can look at it again and, you know, with the latest input we just got, including Dan's idea of maybe making it broader. But so let's move to the last agenda item I have for today, which is this, you know, notion of project maturity matrix. And again, this came up as part of the Hyperledge member summit. They were a lot of, you know, for those who weren't there, they, the member summit this year was organized really around like, you know, I would say round tables with a lot of dialogue discussions and there was not much presentation other than I think Brian's. But, and so it really helped having a lot of discussion about the status of Hyperledge, what goes well, what doesn't go so well and what should we do? And, you know, there was specifically discussions around the greenhouse and we got quite a bit of feedback, which was quite interesting. And there was a clear signal that people, as I was saying earlier, you know, are confused about the greenhouse, the different projects and how, you know, they compare to one another not so much in terms of initially functionality, but, you know, the status again, because as we, as you guys know, the life cycle basically has this Boolean bit, right? I mean, it's more than that because we also can retire, archive the projects like Composer and all. But for the Mosspot, all the projects fall into either incubation mode or active status and there isn't much beyond that. So out of the discussion came up with this idea which, you know, again reminded me of what hot at the Broad Apple that we discussed some time ago, which was instead of trying to, you know, fold all of these different metrics you might look at into one, you know, name under one label, we could instead empower the users with, you know, more information. And this would be something we can update on a more regular basis where, you know, you could stop maybe with the exit criteria for incubation and say, okay, instead of trying to say you either, you know, pass because you meet all the criteria or you don't, maybe you can, you know, have a set of metrics similar to those but you display a level of completion among, you know, against those metrics. So that's the general idea and maybe there's a way to expose those so that when people go to the website and, you know, in a way similar to what we just talked about with Borough, right? That people can say, oh, what's that project? And on the page, they would have some signal that tell them, well, right now there isn't much activity, you know, then they would know what to expect. And it doesn't mean the projects are not worthy of anything. It's just, it just means that. And so that's the general idea. And so that's pretty much all I can say as an introduction. I mean, I'm interested to know if, you know, obviously this came up as part of the member summit, as I said, but, you know, there are no authorities, not like they are forcing us to work on this but I thought it was interesting and we should pick it up and at least look at it, consider it. And so what I'm asking for now is, you know, a bit of reaction similar to what we were talking about earlier. It's like, is that something that's of interest to people that they want to invest in this? Should, you know, this maybe somebody feels like, hey, I'm interested in putting up a proposal together, at least starting to draft and doesn't have to be a single person. Or you feel like, hey, now we've been there, done that, no, I'm not interested in doing more on that, Tracy, go ahead. Yeah, so in the TSC chat, I put a link to something that I had started back when I was a community architect, looking at different sorts of maturity aspects for projects. It didn't go anywhere because I don't think people like the red, yellow, green aspects of it, but I do think the ideas in there, even without the colors are things that we could consider. And I think now that we have the LF analytics tool that that might help provide some of that. I do think that it's, you know, like the LF analytics tool is good, but I don't think it's probably what most people would look for as an indication of whether or not they should move forward with a project or not. I think, you know, they need people probably, most people need something that's more easily digestible as they look at it. So I know that David Boswell and I had worked on this, and I like the ideas I think that David had in his, you know, the links he provided in the mailing list were probably pulled into this, maybe some other things I don't know, but it might be a place for us to start if it's easier to start from something and rip it apart. Yeah, thank you for that. And indeed, I wanted to point out David Boswell sent also an email to the list for those who haven't seen it. That is worth a read. Yeah, just to add to that, this is David. If anybody on the TSC is interested in putting this trauma in together, I'm more than happy to support. As I said on that post, I've done some maturity work with other communities before and I'm happy to support. Thank you, David. Gary? Oh, yeah, so I guess I'm trying to figure out, you know, exactly which problem we're sort of trying to solve, per se, right? Because, you know, just like Apache Software Foundation or whatever, right? I mean, we have some clear things about what it takes to become what we call it an active project. You can call it whatever you wanna call it. An accepted project within Hyperledger, right?  And then, of course, you know, the big one that many people tend to get hit by, right, is, you know, community, right? Diversity, right? Diversity of maintenance, right? That is not just managed by like one company or not, right?  And that was supposed to mean that, hey, you know, Hyperledger feels pretty good that, you know, we've done some diligence in this thing, we don't think there's like one person controlling this whole thing, they can't take it all away and whatever, and that's in the, when you read the manifesto or whatever you wanna call it, right? That's what's in there. I think, so, you know, if we wanna, if there's a, so one suggestion is if somebody wants to say, hey, there should be a, you know, do we wanna have along the way a more transparent thing of the status of where somebody is towards meeting those goals, that's one option, right? You know, all the rest, right? Or kind of like, you know, to me are still, you know, somehow we are not educating people on like open source or how to look at open source, right? Because to me, right, what's the first thing, I mean, anybody who's gonna go, if I wanna go use an open source project thing, if we wanna go use it in fabric, for example, what's the first thing that we do, right? One, we scan to make sure it meets the right licenses generally, if not somebody catches us that we missed it. Two, we look at, when was the last time there was a contribution to this thing and is it active? Because that either means that if, you know, nobody's doing it, it's kind of a dead project, we probably should think twice about doing it or we have to step up and be ready to fix bugs ourselves if we're willing to take the risk to do that, right? Those are the types of things that you have to do when you're working in open source. And I, you know, I feel like, you know, half the time this is about open source education. And I still stand by this other thing of people thinking that things are products, not projects. I still think there's that big misconception. And, you know, I guess at one point we tie versions to active status and whatever and then we obviously broke that apart, which is fine, right? So to me, somebody's supposed to look at, hey, do they feel like, you know, we've put, you know, so what do we want to say? What does hyperledger feel that we should say about putting our stamp of approval on a project for people? And if somebody's saying that nobody cares that there's a single maintainer, that there's a single thing on it, then does that mean that we should change the rules of active status to not require diversity as an example? So I know I'm throwing a lot out there, but that's why this kind of, I don't disagree that we should look at this perhaps, but I don't really know what problem we're actually trying to solve because I think if people actually were educated in being able to study and look at open source, they would actually know, you know, whether or not they should think about considering using a project or not, without us calling it active or not. All right. I take your point on, you know, we should be clear on the problem we want to solve, we want to solve. And for the matter, I don't personally think we necessarily should tie that discussion to whether we want to keep or not the incubation versus active status. Maybe there's still value in having that global label, but I think for now we should really focus on this, you know, motion of matrix that to me the interest is in, you know, helping, you know, I take your point, Gary, that people could figure it out by themselves, but for a lot of people that's, you know, that would take quite a bit of time to figure out, okay, who is really active in this project? What's going on? And so if we could provide some help in figuring this out, I think that would be, you know, a good thing to do. Okay, but you could also provide a quick guide, but I take, I don't think it's actually that hard. Right? You go look in a GitHub repository, it tells you when the last commit for a project was, if it commits you can look at that and it also will tell you how many active contributors you have. I mean, this is all pretty easy. If somebody wants to just take, get stuff and present that in a different form, okay. Right, because otherwise you get into the point of making, you know, decisions for people, right? I guess if we think there's best practices for evaluating use of open source code for some less of purposes, right? Then that's, then that's, then that's, then that doesn't make sense. Like open source is not commercial quality code, right? So, you know, you have to make your own assessment of this stuff. We're not here, we're not paid by Hyperledger to fix code here, right? I still think people believe that. Well, whether commercial code is of better quality than some of the open source out there is questionable. It has nothing to do with that point, right? You said it's not commercial code, it's open source. No, no, no, I said it's not, yes, not, yeah, right. Commercial code, when you have commercial code, it comes with liabilities that you're willing to stand up to, right?  We're not going to throw the product away. And if I do anything to violate those agreements, I'm going to give you your money back or you have the right to sue me. Open source doesn't have any of that, right? That's kind of my point, right? I think sometimes people literally think that these things are like, I guess I still think there's a misconception in a lot of things of people not understanding what these things actually are, and then also, then not understanding open source. And, you know, maybe we need some education on open source instead of trying to decide, I guess maybe I'll just throw that out there. I think maybe we need to have more details on why we have a current process and things you should look at when looking at open source or pointers to people. Anyway, I'll stop there, because I've said too much. All right, thank you. Angelou is on. Yeah, I must admit, I wouldn't, maybe following a little bit what Gary was saying, I would like to understand what would mean to have this label of maturity. So it's, I mean, I'm more interested in the implication. Once we start giving these labels, how this label should be perceived, then it's like that we are giving a quality stamp on the project, which I think it's too much to say. Can you argue a bit more on the, can we argue a bit more about the implications on this? All right, let's go to Nathan who is next, but the question is open. So I think we need to be really careful about making it be either community or product type management decisions. I think, I agree with Gary 100% that we primarily are in charge of facilitating the community and making sure that the project is interactive and it's a good place to create innovations. Open source communities have to be an interesting place to be or the work grinds to a halt. And if we just make decisions based off of releases and packaged products, we end up neglecting, I think one of the most important parts about participating at Hyperledger. But at the same time, I think we're all interested in writing the best possible code we can write. We just have to be careful that when we put those benchmarks or those hoops in place that we're not making artificial barriers and that we're not doing it at the detriment of the participation in the community itself. That the community has to come before the product concerns or we won't get a product in the first place. All right, thank you. Brian. Yeah, I think again, comparable to look at here is the core infrastructure initiative badging process. You know, the CIA badge does not guarantee that your code has no bugs, does no security defects, is secure in any way. What it guarantees is that there's a process, is that there's a capability and it is about the people and not so much the lines of code. So similarly here, I think you can evaluate the project, no matter what point the code is at, even something that's still a version 0.1 or is version 40.3 and is pretty stable and not seeing a lot of development. Both of those could achieve a high or a low score on this and that would be meaningful data to people considering using it. All right, thank you. Anybody else? So it's at least triggering quite a bit of discussion so far. So I take it this is worth entertaining a bit more. It's not so clear to me that we have a consensus as to, you know, this is something we should do and that this is well understood by everybody. You know, what is exactly we run to achieve? So it makes it a bit harder to get a proposal going, but. I didn't raise my hand, but.  I think some of this came out of the member summit, right? Where it's hard for people who aren't as involved as we are to come in and understand, you know, help them select which projects will help them right away or what they could be involved in. And, you know, a simple Boolean active or incubation isn't necessarily helping with the maturity of the project from that perspective. And we also have a hesitancy to, you know, move people backwards on the list. So, and part of this ties into the marketing and the website, but, you know, we need to have ways to help them make decisions. You know, do we promote everything equally on the website or is there a way to indicate which of the healthier projects? And again, you know, this is on the realization that a lot of the people that come in are not going to contribute back. So, you know, we have to balance that out. But again, it's all brand related, right? If you come in and you get on a, you know, you want to start using a project that doesn't have as much support as maybe it should, but, you know, or it used to, then Hyperledger gets a bad brand in general and it could impact other projects. So, Dan, go ahead. Yeah, just a plug here that I think that this is actually a pretty broad and interesting issue. And so the Open Source Security Foundation, which I think some of us are also contributing in, they're going to be the new home for the CII badge. And so feedback from discussions like this is helpful to that community and helpful to bring any, I'm happy to bring any of this discussion over that way. But as we evolve this conversation, I think it really is sort of a broad thing. Interesting, thanks. Feel free to act as the bridge at least, you know, some kind of informal years off. All right, anything else, we're out of time, but I do think we need a bit more clarity as to whether this is primarily a communication as it's been said, right? And, you know, is that a marketing issue primarily? And, you know, again, if you go to the hyperledger.org slash use page, which presents the greenhouse, you know, there is no indication whatsoever as to the status even the active versus incubation is not present there. And, you know, is this mostly a problem trying to make this better with adding information so people have additional, you know, this kind of information at the disposal, it really available. Maybe it's certainly, it's on the page of the projects themselves, or is there more than that? And it has to do with, you know, more of the management of the projects because, you know, we are already managing this status and maybe we want to go beyond that and have this kind of, you know, we also have quarterly reports. Quite frankly, I feel like sometimes it may be we're not really achieving the goal that they were meant to achieve, which is really to give the TSE more insight as to the status of the projects and what's going on, you know, and things like, you know, the fact that transit, the discussion that happened on the TSE list, you know, about the rollover project, we learned through that, you know, the transact that a lot of other uses outside of Hyperledge was completely news to me and I'm like, why didn't I never got that out of the reports? And so there are the things like this that maybe the reports, we need to work more on the reports, I don't know. So I think there's definitely something more to dig in there. So I think for now we'll leave it at this. Some of it, you know, might be a communication issue, some maybe more and it has more to do with the way we manage our project and surface their status. So with that being said, I think I'm gonna close the call on that. I want to thank you all for joining, participating to this discussion. This discussion will be carried on forward.


I'm keeping all of it. In fact, you know what? What's the okey? Here's the okey boys. I'm trying to take a quick lunch Let's go How's it going everybody? Dottodoy here back with some more Dragon Ball Fighters rank matches wherein today We're going to be playing our main team and trying to show off some new tech that I've been working on on the road to evo 2019 so basically to start off with my main team what I've been working on is trying to really improve my Krillin as I Felt like he has been stagnant for a really long time because you know Krillin tech is pretty hard to come by one situation I really wanted a combo for was to punish an opponent's guard cancel in the corner I in turns out Krillin has something that's really good for that turns out as long as you block a guard cancel You can punish with that raw 5h and then do exactly what I'm doing here for some massive damage It's a solo combo, but you can also work some assist in there or some DHC supers But really this is something Krillin can do on his own as long as you have sparking which is pretty crazy So yeah, that's only one thing I've been working on But I'm really excited to keep refining my team for evo and of course trying to pull some of this stuff off in these online rank Matches, but before we get into that I wouldn't actually be able to go to evo at all without the help from some sponsors So before we hop into the rank matches I want to talk to you all about the sponsor for today's video raid shadow legends for those of you who don't know Raid shadow legends is a brand new free to play collection RPG game that is taking the mobile gaming landscape by storm with Almost 200,000 reviews a near perfect score in the play store and almost 10 million downloads in just three months It has great graphics strategic gameplay huge boss fights in an amazing storyline with over 400 champions for you to collect and personally Customize and with the insane level of detail on all of these characters Even if your favorite is an early game unit like mine here They will still look amazing throughout your playtime another thing that I really love about this game is that there really is something for everybody Some are super into the collection aspect while others enjoy the storyline and the graphics And as somebody that really enjoys fighting games I myself and more personally about the PvP battles you can get in the arena The game is growing super fast and the new update is now live That means there's a new loyalty program for new players Which allows you to get a daily log and reward for the first 90 days in the game If you heard you can find me in the game under the name dacha joya and might even be able to join my clan So what are you waiting for go to the video description click on my link and you will instantly get 50,000 silver and a free epic champion within a week as part of the new player program to start your journey I hope you all enjoy raid shadow legends and again special. Thank you to raid for sponsoring the video now Let's get back into our ranked matches. All right So it looks like we're going up against that team of huge characters here Broly cooler and then Beerus down there really Changing the team composition up, but still a pretty crazy team the goal I'm going for here is to just try to use some of this more refined stuff Wow, that was a nice back that if that would have read if that would have grabbed me I would have been impressed dude that would have been a reed of a decade All right big drops. I understand the pain. Oh, God Superdash was the grab do it to me.  I couldn't decide which combo. I wanted to go for this.  I've got to respect Broly's leg range, you know, oh The bean I got off to a quick lunch Down heavy you trying to drop a whole man on my head Dude, we got the bean to all that blue light healed up. It wasn't too much, but dude that could have been great The bean cloud, okay Nice he challenged me. I was going for something fake defense defense defense Nice get into the corner. No. Oh, you didn't take advantage of it Okay, I did jump. I didn't know that was coming. I will admit I did jump Seven bars though. This is a pretty standard kill. I want to keep thrilling out. So even though this Yeah, it took a little extra bar, but I wanted to keep thrilling out We had seven anyway. We had a lot. We had a lot of money this fair Take it. I'm a guard cancel. Let me hit you with it real quick. Oh Nice hit me with the low. I Did not have a lot of time to do something there Yeah, oh geez Okay, okay. I kind of want to get him in this corner here. Just so we could buy more time Try to reflect that Whatever we get and get another guard cancel. Why not throw a little level three on there for the Krillin. All right There we go. What's the mix? I think we just jumping overhead for the time Yeah, geez we didn't even get to throw in the assist. I was trying to do a little throwback Krillin takes game one. We didn't get to do too much there You know, we almost had it with go go crew in the corner It's just so weird to to go with two mediums instead of the usual my apologies. I Gotta get the yonkha sticker set up.  You got to get that stagger pressure. There comes the Krillin keep him in the corner Make him respect those key blasts. That's another thing. I'm trying to implement That was not something I was trying to I tried it dude It wasn't it was an optimal or anything, but you're too tall cooler. You're too tall. You gotta leave I tried it guys. I tried it. Oh man. I feel like we could have had that too. It's just I was laughing in my head I was like, this is crazy. Ah, he's superdashed. That's the power of that key blast that it makes him want to superdash The point is you're not supposed to let that happen, but Whoops don't even try don't even try it the solar flare was too fast. Let's go solar flare. Oh He's about to get the moat. This is about to be the speed run. Nice. I try to fake out an after image Here we go down. Oh, yeah, I'm just doing it. I'm just going in I gotta get the down heavy after that. I'm too afraid to throw it out Level three.  No, I mean I did ask for that. We're keeping all of it. In fact, you know what? What's the oaky? Here's the oaky boys. I'm trying to take a quick lunch Let's go.  Can it kill? Destructo discus a little more. I'll be cake. Oh, I got in the Krillin. There's a superdash That's a punish. Yeah, that's a punish Please kill God I'm all right. I think he has to leave though because of uh, oh Oh That's about to say Let's go the TN's on his team We've embraced TN so we can beat TN With TN embraced. There's nothing we can't do. All right, down we go. Do we try anything fancy made? I mean we did get the hit there, but oh, I thought he was gonna approach Thank you Yamcha, but your services are not needed here Go any time you land a Krillin 2-H. It's a good day cut him. All right. Nice a Lot of health on the line. I feel like I really wanted to face like a pride triple rank or something. Haha. All right over All right, we just we just make it out of there The range on that kick was crazy six and and the dragon rush and my two demons He just succeeded to dragon rush no combo Don't aren't we're dead. I just got caught by a don't on Ray.  Let me see nice. Can we optimize this?  I like that a lot Nice dude. That was sick Well optimized. I mean that's pretty much the base a combo for For Yamcha and Goku in the corner. That was the base. Oh, I Always got my boys watching my back I Try to EX rock it up. Damn. I should have just I should have taken the one hit I wanted to get a little more into the corner with Yamcha says oh Damn, he got me. Yeah, I feel like Tien's a Auto-converse is going for I feel like he hasn't been doing only auto-converse right my blood. No, okay Wait, I'm scared now. Am I just a part of somebody else's YouTube video? Now I'm scared. All right, let's go with the rematch here. I'm just gonna run up Wow, that was kind of cheap. We got a nice conversion there.  He's bad. Yeah switch. That was a lot of assists Hit me with the overhead while I was looking at the assist game Dude, I should just start swinging when I see that no assists. They're up. Why not swing? That was not supposed to be a correct option. I can't read this man. Haha. He's the unreadable That was the most unreadable thing I've ever seen of my life Yikes, oh, he was high up there, dude. He was a lot higher than I expected. Okay Well now we kind of need Goku to put in the work. Nice, bop me out Just eating me alive I'm trying to get him to guard cancel honestly Come on, Yamcha, how did you not finish that all? No Yamcha the connection is beautiful by the way, might I add? This guy is definitely playing a wired Dark it he got the guard cancel didn't go with the 2M though. He could have got a lot more damage out there And I'm just throwing things out Okay, I mean, yeah, let's do that now I got away. I'm gonna wake up with a reflect Lot of bad choices being made right now I'm going to be held accountable for them all got him, dude. Let's go. All right low on health I really don't want to lose this I'm a backup look for the super dash Well, that was a lot closer than expected. Geez Don't do it dude super dash he's gonna throw out the team assist first Got me from behind with the low two Gohan is dangerous with that. That was nice. Come on. That was well-timed He kept me going all the way dude There was like a fraction of a second where I could have done something but I chose not to And then he just locked me back down till we got to the ground Hmm He just anti-air me with 3h I'm sorry. This guy is a beast. This guy is an actual god autocombo god. I don't know why he's got scrubbed there He also could have punished me, but he didn't What? That was so good like Gohan like I don't think non gohan players will like get that but that was sick He just walked back into my feet I'm gonna I'm gonna go for the read here No, no, I'm not. No, I'm not. This is a tm. We're talking about No, I'm not gonna go for the read had to hit him with the audible mix up real quick But I was definitely not going for the read. What what was I thinking? I guess the tm He would have hit me with a super before I could or I could say anything I'm gonna I'm gonna go for a third opponent. Actually. All right. Here we go Super Saiyan rose rank a blue vegeta up front. That's really interesting Also very scary because the only people playing blue vegeta at this rank Are the people that are going to mix you with blue vegeta? And the easter out. Okay. This guy this guy passes the test dude easter colors too. All right, let's pack it up Nice. All right Oh very lucky block I I I definitely could have punished that but I just kind of panicked again I don't know too much about blue vegeta and I thought that was a setup And we are just dancing around each other Nice. Oh, no bar. Have I really not gotten a bar? I feel like I've been running around the map pretty frequently Nice jumps right over the yamcha says dude. This match is weird This is unlike any other fighters match I've played before we have not been hitting each other no switch Again, why is he using that move so much that move is not good, right? Nice guard cancel Okay, let's see if we can spend the bar here. Probably should have switched Nice again. Let's just run it back No, we did it too low Dude another drop combo. Okay That was so risky Oh, man Nice dragon rush kind of backed up a little there. I was wondering what he was going for Again still this is a weird match Okay, that worked 6m 6m baby. That's the classic Didn't get to switch curling out though. So now my Goku's really uh Really on the line. What do we do to get him out? We just got we just got kicked in the face Wow, that was unfortunate. All right come on back us up here I'm not alone in thinking this guy plays weird, right?  It's like uncomfortable kind of He's like jumping around throwing big bangs not really throwing out any other normals either. That's the part that's weird All he wants is that big bang. All right, we're gonna tie it up here Going to 1v1 Hopefully this is a little more normal. It's actually throwing me off. I know I probably sound dazed and confused right now Face called me out of my stagger. I was gonna do one more When do we spark is the question level three? No level three. I'm gonna do it now bad rotation Okay I'm not gonna lie to you the quicker we hit him the the better it is for us There it is Do we do we we do we do we have no choice right because his spark is going to be active for a very long time now Cross up that was sick The the light light cross-up is a very powerful yamcha tool. You got to throw that in your game plan Oh, can we get the rematch? That was okay. I there's a lot. I want to adjust to like as a player There's a lot. I want to adjust to so let's see what we can do Oh, yeah, the key blast that was another part that was throwing me off. Okay, get him to the corner nicely done Get him up. Get him up We hard knock done. Why not? We don't have any assist to help us out. We got a hard knock down I think we go overhead, but it's a fake into a low Nice we get the sparking pretty early back it up. Look for the superdash. She hasn't done a lot of those But tixam. Oh too slow on the trigger That was a weird cross-up. No, okay. He went for two It in tech slow on the cross-up But not slow on the beam draw you gotta you gotta race us to beat us That was very close to a drop Give me the bar Nice calls out the key blast doesn't want to see it jump straight up. He does not want to fight that Oh final flash. He really wants blue Vegeta out Yeah, we crouch Nice dude Uh, we just do we take Goku back and we just kill we just kill That's missing. Well, no, no, no good. Sorry. I panic sometimes It didn't make sense to switch out into Goku only for us to kill a character anyway in my mind Nice heavy doesn't help that Goku slowed us down Oh, that was good. That was good on Bardock. He knew which way we were vanishing just hit us with the lights Nice superdash in the face Called out the superdash, okay Nice, okay. I a little time.  I thought he would pop up up tech into the key blast. It was gonna be sick.  I kind of want to get just goku back out. So let's just not risk it Oh, we just did one jab though. Ah too much even one jab was too much And we're definitely sparking here. I am not crazy.  I guess the dive kick wasn't low enough I've tick wasn't low enough. This dude is going in The ex scale claws always comes in clutch. It does it never does not come in clutch That was a bad two L Add a couple of L's I threw out there not gonna get the kill I gotta stop throwing these out wait for the super dash The jab that I just gotta stand up. Don't crouching jab All right, come on. Don't lose don't lose Surprised we didn't get punished there. Honestly dragon rough. We're dead. We're dead. We're double double.  He just got kind of Well, the vanished thing they kind of screw us with krillin There's so many points on the line too. I go by brad. All right brad.  Real quick like Nice, I'll take it. I'll take it. It wasn't real. But then again, what what what is real these days?  He's in sparking. Anyway, he's not gonna take a lot of damage.  I mean super dash Ah, no vanish after the beam Now we're in a bad spot.  It was obvious It was obvious and now we got to pay the ultimate price Damn cuts through the healing factor We are way behind now.  Oh god I was I was looking at the wrong Goku. I can't believe that Neo will thank fists Show me the mix. What's the mix?  I was already dedicated to a weird beam We are so dead here. Oh, not even goku gets to come out. Dude goku regained all the hell That's so bad for us Super dash makes sense Yep, that's yoncha, baby Dead, dead I didn't know what to do I guess I could have canceled it to a gale claws or something But I didn't it didn't feel like a good idea if we can get bardak out of the way This comeback looks reasonable But the hard part is gonna be the bardak Come on, baby Come on, baby That was a good 2m, but not I mean 5m. Well, I didn't what did I do? Oh I didn't block that I can't believe I didn't block that, but I guess if that's if that's what the game says Come on, baby. I'm not done. Give me the rematch Give me the rematch. This has been a long recording session Dude yoncha, where were you at for the boy? Get down That's what you want to see Because I hate the oh this hit I I wanted to test it I wanted to test it See if that could work And it couldn't damn I wanted to test it though. Oh science Why have you forsaken me? Level three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god damage. Whoo. That's not goku getting beat up. That's literally yoncha Yoncha was taking a smooth beat. I'm dead. No, I'm not good I'll take it Could have killed 6m Yeah, we saved bar think of it like that boys. I didn't drop. I was saving bar It's totally two dragon balls We're dead Bardak is so confident with those lights that it actually scares me in real life I'm afraid Bardak's gonna like hit me with some lights out of nowhere in real life Damn taking a huge beating Oh Nice dashing Saw that I whipped the reflect and he saw blood in the water All right Krillin, you kind of need to live for a while here if we're gonna make this come back There's a lot to ask The super dash is that death that is That's bye bye Krillin Ah Bardak's yelling at the top of his lungs. Come on yoncha. Don't let me down No spark because I wasted it earlier. Let's just start playing a little cheaper start playing a little cheaper Why not we can be cheap. Let's be cheap. Okay yoncha If I could see you get a little cheaper though nice downwards coming out jeez Oh, wow quick spark And Don't mind me if I draw your time out here. Just cannot kill dude from that range.  Good games, dude Good games. Let's wrap it up Yeah, good games. All right. Hopefully you guys enjoyed this if you did make sure to let me know your favorite moment down below And again, thank you to raid for sponsoring this video. It was a long video dude So many matches Uh, but yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and get out of here now Like I said, if you're down below in the comments you like this video and you like the channel Make sure to hit the like button and subscribe and click on that raid link down below And support them for supporting us. I should also have some more videos on your screen right now So make sure to give those a watch if any of them catch a ride. I have been doubted. Do ya? Thanks again, and I will see you in the next video


We move on to our next speaker, Basil Mahfouz. And his talk is case study of education policy during COVID-19. Thank you very much. Thank you. So my name is Basil Mahfouz. And I'm a second-year PhD student at University College London. Generally, my research focuses on using quantitative methods to try to assess how research is used in public policy. And today, I'm going to share with you the results of a case study that we did on education policy during COVID-19. So there was 450,000 papers published on COVID-19 during the pandemic. To put that in context, that's almost as much as all the research on climate change, but only in two years. So given that vast amount of literature and scientific research out there, how well did policymakers take advantage of what they had? So what we did is we went to Overton, and we extracted about 2,452 government policies dealing with education during COVID. They represented about 50 countries, although the majority of them were from the US, the UK, and the EU. Collectively, they cited about 24,000 scholarly citations, which about 12,000 were unique papers. So what we did is we then extracted the DOIs of each of these citations and matched them on the database of Elsevier's International Center for the Study of Research, where we got all their metadata and began our analysis. That's what we found. 75% of the citations were to papers published before 2020, which was rather surprising. So we wanted to ask why and how this happened. So our first step was breaking it down per field. And what we found was that you'll see in blue is the total papers cited and then read the fraction of which were published before 2020. So it's a bit of a discrepancy there. The ones that were medical research, you can't really see them very clearly, but their pediatrics, general medicine, or health-related topics tended to have a better ratio. So they tended to cite newer research versus, for example, social science research, for example, in education. So what we wanted to do first was figure out for each paper that was cited but was published before 2020, where there are similar papers that were published during the pandemic, something a bit more relevant to the public policy elements. So we took about the 8,000 papers that we matched in the ICSR lab, and we matched each of these papers with their corresponding topic IDs. So just for context, there's about 85 million papers indexed on Scopus, and they're classified into 97,000 topics. So for each paper that was cited, we identified the topic, and we wanted to see within that topic which papers they were published after 2020 or during the pandemic to make that match. The second step is we took the abstracts and we performed some basic natural language processing on them. We vectorized them using term frequency, inverse document frequency, to try to match each cited abstract with a newer abstract for a paper that wasn't published. It wasn't, sorry, it wasn't cited. And we wanted to see how many we got. So 50%. About 50% of the papers that were cited before 2020 had at least one paper that was published during the pandemic but was not cited. This creates a discrepancy between fields. So we'll see, for example, pediatrics, about 80%, whereas for education, which is the bulk of the research, about 40%. So there's a discrepancy here between how some governments or are able to extract knowledge per field. So I think we can conclude early-ish from here that for some extent, governments were better at using medical research, sorry, we're better at using certain fields than others. It's a bit more, analysis needs to be done here. The second step was we wanted to understand to what extent this was linked to quality. So this is a bit, I understand it's a meta-science conference so I'm gonna get some feedback on this. So we use quality indicators as the kind of conventional metrics for academic quality, right? So it's the field-weighted citation index for the paper. It's the average age index of all the authors who are co-authored on the paper. It's the site score of the journal that was where the study was published. And as a control, we used open access just to see if it was blocked by certain accessibility issues. So when we took the papers that were cited and the papers that were matched but not cited, we ran two separate regressions. One was a linear logistic regression and the other one was an SVR regression to see how these different variables interact with whether or not a paper gets cited in policy. We found early on some differences in quality here. So in orange are the papers that were old but cited and sorry, in orange, yes, the paper that were old but cited and in blue the papers that were newer but not cited. So we find that, on average, they had a higher field-weighted citation index which is not surprising because newer papers have less time to accrue citations. So we expected that. They tended to come with slightly better journal impact factor site score data. They also tended to have better age indexes for authors but this is possibly due to the fact that there were some new researchers who were venturing into new fields that might have influenced that. But interestingly also we found that the papers that were cited predominantly came from non-open access journals and there's multiple reasons for that, mainly because while the newer research was on COVID was mainly all open access and the second reason was the ratio of open access papers 10 years ago was not as prevalent as it is today. So if it's an older paper, odds are it's going to be not open access. Here were the results of our regression. In total, most of these indicators did not have any statistical significance. The only two that did were the age index of the authors and the field-weighted citation index. But again, the field-weighted citation index would make sense to have an inflated coefficient because mainly older papers had more time to get those citations. Now when we trained the machine learning model to try to predict papers whether based on this data, for the most part they failed. So based on this data we had a recall rate of pretty much less than anything significant. So what we can learn here is that despite that there's no at least observable relationship between these quality indicators and the likelihood of being cited in policy there. So key findings, there was a large number of new research that was relevant to policymakers, that was paper newer, but was not cited. There was no observable relationship between the quality of a paper and policy impact and that there were some discrepancies between different fields with what decision makers or what policy makers in education were able to do. So with that, thank you very much for your attention. This is my email if you'd like to get in touch. I welcome your questions. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I invite questions. We have four and a half minutes. So plenty of time for this session. So if you have any questions, please just get up and go to the microphone. Thank you very much for a very interesting talk. Wolfgang Kirsner of Computational Metascience and Astrophysics, Michigan State University. So I was wondering when you looked at the citations, you only looked at, so we have a post-drop as well on a similar issue, when you looked at the citation you only looked at very recent papers that only have been out for a small amount of time. So the amount of gathering citations is very small versus your control group which is older or do they misunderstand something there? Okay, so when you mean by citation, I'm assuming you're talking about the citations in policy documents. So for those, we didn't exclude any of them. So if you were cited, you entered into the database and then we matched you with newer papers if they existed. And so for those is where we found that about half of them had a newer paper and probably I should add that about 70%, sorry, about the average was about 70 papers, newer papers for each cited paper that was older. I see, thank you very much. Thank you for the question. Hello, my name is Han. Thank you for your great presentation. I do have a question about, you compare the policy documents, you use TFIDF and you compare the old policy and the new policy, could you go back to that slide? I have one question. I don't know if this goes back. Oh no, I think I pressed something wrong. I don't think I can go back on this. Okay, so my question, maybe I misunderstand your answer but I was wondering, you use TFIDF and you decide if the new document is similar to the old document but how do you set the threshold to compare two metrics? So thank you for that question. I don't know if I can go back to my presentation. I had a slide on that but if I can, I have two abstracts, I'll tell you about the technical. So first step there is the first matching was on topic level. So basically you had 97,000 topics so the fact that two papers already are in the same topic means they're already in the same area of research. So then when we use TFIDF to match them we tried multiple different coefficients of cosine similarity. So the first one was we started with about 0.5 so if I had 0.5 cosine similarity then we considered it very accurate. Oh great, so thank you so much for putting those up. So this is how the topics work. So they work on co-citation analysis, right? So if papers cite each other, they're in one topic so that's how Syva's topics work. And here are two abstracts that have a cosine similarity of 0.3. So abstract one, you can see impact of principal turnover, it's about what has Missouri data but I'll give you a second to read through it. And then abstract two which was newer, relatively similar topic but you can see that one is about with Texas so there's a bit of a domain difference. So I'm not necessarily saying these two are alike and one should have cited one over the other but it's just to demonstrate how close these two papers are given the method that we use to try to match them. Okay, thank you. Hi, Rhys Richardson, Northwestern University, great talk. Maybe I missed this but did you look at the frequency of retractions among the cited documents in these policy briefs? So thank you for that. No, I'll take a look. Having said that my first impression would be these are fairly new policy documents and I mean, I'll take a look at the old cited papers to see if any of those are retracted. That'll be a very interesting thing. So thank you for that point. I'll definitely take a look. Hi, congratulations. Did you compare cited and non-cited in terms of risk of bias or at least in a sample more detailed quality evaluation of the research? So thank you. I think the only metrics used were the ones there. I had experimented with other kind of more altmetrics based ones. So how many news mentions, how many social media tweets, et cetera they had. They also didn't really play a big factor and the data became smaller and smaller. So I decided to kind of make the cut-off at these three main indicators. But I definitely agree. I think there's a lot of questions about how we could use, what are better indicators to use. So if any of you are gonna come up and let me know of a good database where I can kind of assign some other value to those papers, I'd very much appreciate it. I think we're out of time. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you.


Dmitry Medvedev, Russia may declare war on NATO. Western approval of key of strikes on Crimea allows Moscow to mount against NATO, said Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Dmitry Medvedev. According to him, this allows Russia to declare war against any country of the Alliance and NATO as a whole. Unfortunately, the prophecies of the Apocalypse are getting closer, he added. Medvedev also published several quotes from Soviet leaders Nikita Khrushchev and Vladimir Lenin, and the revelation to Apostle John regarding the end of the world. Earlier, Mikhail Potoliak, an adviser to the head of the office of the President of Ukraine said that partner countries have allowed Kiev to strike Crimea. Today there is an absolute consensus that we can destroy everything the Russians have, for example, in Crimea, in the occupied territories, said Potoliak. Deputy of the Russian state Duma Mikhail Shirmut notes that Western countries will respond to the aggression against Crimea along with Ukraine. According to Shirmut, this is a clear admission that Western countries are waging war against Russia and are the main beneficiaries of the Ukraine conflict. But I want to warn them that Ukraine and Western countries will answer for the aggression against Crimea. Russia has powerful tools to respond and surprise its enemies. Perhaps the time has come for Russia to demonstrate its most powerful ballistic missiles capable of destroying the enemies. Those who threaten the lives and health of Russians should be destroyed in their nests, he added.


Wel, mae'n erbyn i'n ffordd i chi. Mae'n ddylch yn dwy o'r llwy yng Nghymru, dwi'n gwybod yng nghymru i'w Llywodraeth Crefn, ond o'r ddwy o'r llwyddoch chi'n teimlol, rwy'n reddyn nhw'n ffordd i'r ddweud o'r bethau i'r ddwy o'r ddweud o'r afael fel y gweld maen nhw. a how Ben Goffrey hasn't scored a goal from two yards out as well at the end to win us all three points. But we didn't, but it was a clean sheet, another clean sheet for the lads tonight. Another point on the board and yeah, we're back in the bottom three at the minute. We just got to cope with that right now. We just got to keep adding points on Luton. They're having a great time at the minute. I'm sure that they stay a little wall again and it will settle down a little bit. Put the fly in and fair play to them. All the credit to Luton and to Robert. They were just doing a tremendous job there. They've had a great win tonight against Brighton. Let's hope Newcastle turn up on Saturday at St James's Park and clip the wings a little bit. But back to us. Yeah, I think over, listen. Again, they had 46 attempts at goaling at the end of 0-0. At the tuck 0-0, I think today when he had the team and you know, we knew there was no one on it. I think we knew that. We all knew that didn't become Saturday when he was holding his leg. But you know, I took a draw today, but like I said before, when you see those opportunities right at the end, you think what a glorious chance to just to get a bit of momentum going again and get three huge points ahead of two very, very difficult games. But we didn't, but we've got a point and we have to take that and we have to run with it. And like I said, another clean sheet means that Jordan Pickford has kept the most clean sheet in the Premier League. So that is something for the defence to have a look at and be patting each other on the back. It leaves you scratching your head how Lupin scored two against us on the weekend to be honest off, set pieces. But that is what it is. First thing I'm going to talk about tonight is getting our shooting boots sorted out. We're going to need goals. It's as simple as that. We cannot keep passing up moments in games. And we did it against Villet in our last Premier League game. Dominic Calvert-Lewin cleaned through with Martinis and somehow misses tonight better. A yard out to wherever it was, couple of feet out and headed over the bar. There are two centre forwards. There are the two people you want those opportunities to fall to in your team and the pair of them missed it. Nobody else is weighing in my goals either really. Dwight McNeill knows playing a different role tonight, but we need him scoring goals. Dan Jume, some good moments tonight. But other times blazes over when he gets into a good position. Jack Harrison has missed two very, very presentable opportunities tonight to score goals. And they've all got away in with them. It's just as simple as that. You know, no goals against Villet. No goals at Wolves. You know, three Premier League games without a goal. You know, Man City at home, we scored. Tottenham was one there, wasn't it? You know, since the call he's gone out, we've got two, what is it, two in five Premier League games. And that's why when opportunities come along like they did tonight, you have to take them. You're really doing. I don't, you know, Dominic, you're short of keeping the players after training and working on finishing. I don't really know what else he can do. The players have got to, maybe it is, maybe it is. Stay behind and you're all the finishing every day for half an hour till you get comfortable with scoring goals because we do miss some great opportunities. We're not a, we're not a brilliant team by any stretch. We're a, we're a very average football team. We play average football, but what we have to do is then when we get the opportunities and we do get opportunities, we have to be prepared. Well, prepared.  We have to take them. We passed up like I've just said. Don passed up that glorious chance around to Villa. Who knows what might have happened. We might have beat them that day tonight. Beto heads that in. We win the game. We get three massive points. We win the game. Don passed a great opportunity up at Wolffs at 1-0. Then he's in with the keeper and he doesn't even hit the target. He puts it miles wide city at home. He puts it wide when he's with Edison. All of these moments in games, change games, but like I just said, others have to score as well. Our centre backs needs to be scoring goals. You had a brand to it, Tarkovsky, both needs to be weighing in with goals. It's not just down to the strikers. We do need them to score and they are missing sitters like other people, but we have to have goals from other places as well. And I think if you're sure on that, that'll be one of the messages you're getting across. We've all got a way in because we've got to start nicking some games and getting some momentum going. If we get points back, brilliant, they'll boost us, but we still wouldn't be out the woods. The only way we could all feel a little bit easier is if they give us the full 10 points back and I don't think any Evertonian, well, some will, but I'm not convinced a lot of Evertonians believe we'll get 10 points back. Six would be lovely. You know, six would put us in with everybody else I guess, but we still got to take our chances. We really have. The second thing, I'm going to talk about is bring and play us in. I know I keep mentioning it, but there is two days left of this window and what's quite alarming is that Everton seem to be in no position to bring anybody in, not even alone. Now there is, there's links to Ismael Saar, who I think would be a good addition. He's not a big goals goal, but he's a player who can play wide and he's quick. He can play through the middle. He can play off the striker. So he would give us that base utility there. That's being mentioned. I know nothing for a surprise surprise are interested in him as well, but he is one I think can play right, can play left as well. He would give us something that we don't really have. And I think he would be a good addition and he'd be a genuine option, I think to McNeill or to Harrison if they need to come out. He could like I say with the core, I hopefully he's it's not too long till he's back, but with, you know, if the core is in there, Saar could play that role as well and he would be something totally different. So what we've got there are other options out there. We'd be mentioned with a link to that or with Carlos Borgers or Carlos Forbes as he's known now, a Raiachs. They're looking like they may well let him go on loan till the end of the season.  He could give us something we don't have. And also ac upon, it was also a Raiachs ever. And we're off to mention linked heavily with him and he's at Middlesbrough. He has been mentioned as well. He's got eight goals this season for Raiachs. I'm not sure why they would loan him out, but that has been that's come out of Holland. So there are some options floating around and it may well, it may well rest on whether someone like Athletic Home had to come in for Ben Goffrey. That's something that has done around so they played all right tonight. Actually Ben Goffrey should have probably won us the game at the end. But that he may well attract some interest over the next 48 hours. I think that's what we need. The only way, I know Sheffield United are looking at Mason Hallgate. I think the only way it really benefits evidence if they come and buy him. And if they bought him that would probably free up enough money to get a loan player in. It shouldn't be this. It shouldn't be us scrapping around trying to get someone out the door just to bring a loan player in. Fully and fully understand it for buying players. I get that, no problem with that, but alone it shouldn't be this difficult. And we are in a position just right now where we need players with desperate for players. The manager is desperate for players for options. Tonight he's gone with Dwight McNeill and James Garn in the middle of the park and they did very well as a two. You know, they're not the most physical presence. They're not going to be diving into tackles and all of that. They're not the most natural pairing, but they did well enough. And everybody else put a shift in unless we got a result from it. But I think the manager needs some options. And Kevin Delwell, the board, if there is one, I don't know if it's 777 and I know they were there crying cutters tonight. If they've got any saying it, whatever, got to try to come up with something to get the manager at least one, if not two options in on deadline day. We need another midfield player. Absolutely we do. And we could do with it. Well, we do need another wire player. Let's see. And be honest, I'm sat here and that is pure hope and probably pure fantasy. But you've got to hope, haven't you? You haven't got hope. What else have you got? So that's where we are with that with the window shut to 11 o'clock on phase. We'll be doing live streams all day, obviously. Let's hope there is something for us to report as far as everything I can send. The final thing I want to finish on and it's a positive really is evidence away form and evidence away form is quite strong really. I think there's only, I think it's only city Liverpool maybe that have one more away games. It's a, you know to nil nil tonight. Wolves was the anomaly. We've been dreadful at Wolves. You know, we obviously went to palace in the Cuppins room nil nil. We went to Tottenham and we were a midges cock away from getting a drawer of Tottenham with Dan Jumit. And we have been very, very competitive on the road. The huge elephant in the room if it is one is our home form which is absolutely dreadful and the manager to keep saying it's got to come up with something. You've got to find a way to be able to play a home and that might be with different personnel. Who knows? But away form is very strong and that has got to give us some hope that we can still get points on the road. And if we can just adjust our home form and spin it the other way. Start with space on Saturday. You know, we've won three home games and it'll be February the next time you run out of Goulders and Park. It's, that is absolutely awful and it needs correcting and it needs correcting on Saturday. And but the away form if we can just keep, if we could add another one or two away victories on to our tally then that would definitely help. Obviously it'd help us in our quest to get away from any kind of danger but it'd lift the pressure for the home games as well. So that is the one thing I think you can look at and go alright, we know we're going to be competitive away from home which is good. Now how do we fix the home form and that's what it comes down to. But tonight, yeah, it's a decent away point albeit changed with what a great opportunity to win it the end with better and go for it. He didn't do it and we, you know, there's no point continuing to have on a barri. We've got a point of form. We dust ourselves down. We go again on Saturday against Spears, I have 12 at Goulders and Park. Let's go and beat them. Let's make sure Ritty as a day he doesn't want to remember until after the game when we can clap him off the pitch because we're all buzzing because we just beat Tottenham. Let's do that. It's much better than not winning. That is if for me. Let me know what you think in the comments section and if they are thumbs up. Subscribe if you have not. Thanks for watching. See you later.


Sashak! Super Ninja Boy is an interesting combination of a few different genres. It's a traditional role-playing game in terms of exploring a world map, visiting towns, talking to villagers, how the story is told, and all that, but the random encounters you come across on the world map put you in a real-time side-scrolling beat-em-up battle mode. This is a really cool idea and it works pretty well, the usual punch-kick stuff is there, along with items like shurikens and special attacks, but as cool as that sounds it is a bit flawed. The action can be pretty slow and choppy. Maybe I've been spoiled by Street Fighter 2 Turbo, I don't know. It doesn't help that this game has the typical early 90's RPG encounter rate, as in this game was made to be artificially long because you fall into a random encounter every six steps, so that gets really old. You do at least get a choice immediately of fighting or running, but the game doesn't always let you run. Also the hit detection isn't always the greatest, you have to be right next to your enemy to register a hit. The game maintains the beat-em-up battles for random encounters, but switches to a turn-based battle system for boss fights, so that's pretty cool. Really, if you're going to play Super Ninja Boy, I strongly, strongly recommend it be with another player. Many of the best Super Nintendo multiplayer games do have perfectly good single-player campaigns like Contra 3, Donkey Kong Country, and Turtles in Time, but like I said, Super Ninja Boy is kind of tedious on single-player, the fighting is just too slow. For the second player, it's a little more interesting, and a little more competitive too. The game does have a password system instead of a battery save, but in this case it works well because you can choose one or two players before resuming the game. The story is very simple, and honestly it's barely even worth mentioning. Jack and Ryu have to collect seven magic orb things away from a street gang that wants to take over the world. The half-assed translation does the story no favors, but who cares, the gameplay is really what matters here. Super Ninja Boy looks and sounds like an NES game rather than Super Nintendo. That's not a bad thing, of course, it's just, you know, kind of lousy the game did take advantage of the inherent technological advantages of the Super NES, but that's fine. Anyway, I still think this gameplay concept can work really well today. Imagine an old-school Super Nintendo JRPG with Street Fighter one-on-one battles, as well as Final Fight style side-scrolling brawls with turn-based combat for boss fights, where you use dual-tech combos like a combination of Chrono Trigger, Sabin from Final Fantasy 6, and Killer Instinct. I think that game needs to be made by somebody somewhere, because I would play the hell out of that. But as it's implemented in Super Ninja Boy, it's just okay. It's definitely something different for a role-playing game, and it's a good time with the second player. If you're going to check it out, I recommend playing this game multiplayer first and foremost.


against terrorism. So security, trade is also another important issue. America has emerged as India's largest trading partner. Healthcare, wellness, beat yoga and for a healthy future this time the idea is also to focus on promoting generic medicines. Other issues of mutual interest could be 5G. Prime Minister Modi talks about digital India, how we can bridge the digital divide, strengthen communications. Ivanka Trump when she had met the Prime Minister in 2017 November in Hyderabad, she came to attend the Global Entrepreneurship Summit. So entrepreneurship education could well be another area that's the US ambassador to India. The aim of course is to deepen the friendship between the world's oldest democracy and its largest. Welcome to India, welcome Mr. and Mrs. Trump. The moment that we've all been waiting for with a lot of excitement and anticipation, the arrival of President Trump and the first lady Melania Trump to India and the warm welcome, the handshake, the hearty hug, which has now become a symbol of their friendship. Greetings all around. Prime Minister Anuradha Modi introducing the American President Donald Trump to the Chief Minister of Gujarat and other dignitaries present. This is the first visit to India by President Donald Trump. That was a quick greeting with Ivanka Trump and Jared Trump, the daughter and son-in-law of President Trump, a tri-services guard. Going of the conch shells is considered auspicious, pious and the sound there positively energizes the environment through the vibrations. There is such a festive air here. It is as if all of India has come alive to welcome her guests. And this sort of a greeting, this sort of a reception can only be given in India. And after being greeted here at the Sardar Balabhai Patel International Airport, the American President, the first lady will now proceed towards Sabar Mati Ashram. But what will await them on the route, Jasleen, is also going to be fantastic. The cultural extravaganza, music, dance, arts, crafts await the arrival of the dignitaries on the route as the culture of 28 states of the country will be showcased. So on the short route, President Trump and the first lady will experience the sights, the sounds, the colors, the culture of all of India on the short journey. The utter joy of the dancers is infectious. As they perform the umbrella dance and the presidential beast, the armored vehicle will move away from the airport in just a few moments from now. The tribal dance of Gujarat is a special attraction. Conservation and preservation of the rich culture is so very necessary. The sheer diversity is spectacular. In the background, what you also saw was a glimpse of golf dance, which is known as ribbon dance, where the dancers will hold on to a cord and they will make an intricate braid at the end of first set of movements where it all gets mixed up. But then in the next set of movements, when the dancers move, the braid gets unrevealed and all the cords are loose and single once again, completely majestic. We see the presidential cavalcade moving out of the airport as also the cavalcade of the prime minister of Indyashree Narendra This is indeed a riot of color as artists of all ages, young and old, men and women dance in gay abandon and these are seven or nine pots that they balance on their heads, which is quite a feat. These are age-old traditions offering a story to be told, a narrative that will help us chronicle the history better for a greater future. This is the soft power of India, the dolls, the costumes, the colors, the rhythm, the claps, the dandia, the garba, the ribbon dance in the background. A dance for every occasion and ours is a country of festivals, so there is a festival every few days in India to celebrate the seasons, to celebrate the change of seasons, to celebrate the advent of the new season, because they are all connected with nature and as nature changes slowly through the year, so do our folk dances and we celebrate nature in all its glory. The president's limousine, the beast, now slowly moving out of the airport. That's the golf dance also known as ribbon dance. Very pleasant weather, welcomes the guest. President Trump has come to India on a world wind tour of 30 years.