The lighting is crummy. Let's see. Welcome to live chat. Remember to what guard your privacy in a abide by it. Okay Can't get this out of here Go away go away Let's check the settings Hey, maybe this will help. No, how about this a little bit better? How about this? Look at all these things I can play with about this Bubbles, ooh, we're under the sea under the sea Good ol' black and white I'm just playing for a minute till I get a couple you guys in here. I Woke up feeling really good. I'd want to share a couple things with you and I want to Get some Advice But the only problem is has anybody posted yet because I'm on my phone. Hi, Jill. How are you? Oh, right on. Okay. Now I need to figure this out.  I'm in my bed The lighting is crappy I've never done a live on my phone before But I want to talk about a couple things that I did and that I'm doing and I'm feeling good about it's something I'm not feeling good about and I need you guys To help me, but I don't know how to read where you're writing on my phone. Okay, good. So I see Jill I See Linda. I wonder if I do this Nope Hmm, I'm gonna have to wait to see if anybody who's here Can you just type anything in so I can see if I can see it or not? That makes a lot of sense, right? So I can see hi Kathleen Susan. Okay, I can see you guys. I just wish I could get this whole thing on the bottom off Excuse my morning, you know what though right now it's a lot about how great I'm looking but how great I'm feeling I'm sitting here a nurse and a Red Bull that my honey brought me Look, can you guys hear me? Okay on this thing? You should see the setup.  Thank you. Oh, I wonder if they can all hear me outside because my windows open Hey, honey, can you hear me? I have all these let me see if I hit this if it'll go away now I can't get these to go away Hang in there with me you guys Susan it's kind of hard not to hear me, huh? But the way I have you guys on my phone sideways sitting on a piece of foam on a pillow With kitty hair all over it. How do you know this is the first time in my life? I've had dogs For this reason, how do you stand the kitty hair the dog hair? The turtle hair whatever animal it might be that you have Hmm Okay, so I guess I'm not gonna be able to get this to go away Nope, that's not working. Oh, I kind of like that it's kind of Film noir if you will like I'm watching on my old movie channels all the time hang in there with me you guys Don't leave. I'm gonna get it set See if this will do it No, no, no, no, I can't make it go away. So we're just not gonna worry about it Well, I've got six of you guys in here Jill and Susan Jill how are you doing? I want to know how you guys are doing too I know a lot of folks come on and they the chat at you. I like to chat with you. I like to make it a If I were to go on Instagram we could all talk together Linda did I say hello to you? I believe I did Kathleen Susan. Okay Jill's doing good. That's great Because this year well, it's July, but I am referring to Clumps of time as this year. Hi Robbie. I read your message. I haven't answered my messages on my live from yesterday yet Also, I want to put this in real quick I got a new camera for Christmas and in the depths of My depression and the big C and the big L and the big P I had no interest in figuring it out I'm going to do that over the weekend. I'm gonna start making videos if I do lives I'm gonna try to learn how to do it on that right now. I'm just doing this Because I need to share certain things I need to hear from you get some feedback from you guys on certain things and You know what you got to do what you got to do in order to do it, right? Okay, so first off my lovely husband if you look on Instagram, I was getting some keto. I don't do keto. I'm a green WWE I don't have my water yet because I'm I'm I don't drink coffee. I drink Red Bull and He does the shopping every Saturday morning He goes to Walmart where we need to be going because I can't go to Walmart.  He likes to go really early before everybody's there He knows what I eat. He knows what to get He found some one point Keto hamburger buns there today now we had found some at Aldi's But then of course one week I went back to get another package They carried them no more of course because right isn't that the way? so he grabbed these ones just ought to Whim on a chance that they would work for me and gosh darn they do they're super soft They're bigger than the ones at Aldi's They're great. So that why am I so excited? I'm excited about that because I'm married to just a great guy Who goes that always washing his truck so he can't hear me? Who goes that extra mile for me? And I'm excited about that. I'm excited because I've shifted I've had a shift Those of you who have been doing WW you guys my numbers keep going in and out. What what am I saying wrong? I? I I'm feeling it. I'm feeling in my bones. I'm excited Susan says the twins found some keto buns to can't remember the name those were the ones from Aldi Those that of course I do I don't do anything what everybody else does But I took everything that the twins do because we all know how much needle needle loves the twins because actually I'm the triplet They haven't told you guys yet It's a big deep dark hidden secret, but there's actually three of us, but we got separated at birth So I'm feeling good you guys, and I'm so glad to be feeling good. I've only had two sips of this So it's not from that Yes, last night we went to dinner We went to our little Spanish restaurant. I Took I measured not only did I measure it out take it, but I measured out a small container half one point worth of holy guacamole the other half one point worth of daisy light sour cream I ordered my appetizer chicken filet grilled You know I told them, you know, no better. They know me there. We go every Friday night. I have for a few years had that Sorry, sorry for the makeup under the eyes, but we don't care. We don't care Had that with what I brought and It was delicious, and it was filling I get so full on it was all I needed We need to slow down when we eat and we did and it worked So I think that kind of like it's like oh it feels good to do this again, right? But I'm having a problem today It's not the end of the world, but I need some help and I'm not seeing any kind of Hitchcock vibes for there a minute Speaking of Hitchcock Hi, Linda. I'm so happy to see you. I saw your name too on yesterday's I keep wanting to say vibe live, and I just have not answered them yet I'm excited to my friend I'm so so super excited and again talk if there's something you guys need to talk about I don't know about you, but I have till about three this afternoon Or you could talk and then if you have to go to your kids game or your grandkids game or whatever But if there's something that you need Do you like my many jammies? To talk about or you need help with jump in here. We'll weave in and out. We won't forget anything Let me see Susan says we don't have chain grocery stores in New York City I've always wondered how you guys shop Only TJ's and Whole Foods. Oh, they still have Whole Foods. I know they're expensive though Never can find the good WW friendly things y'all find Gosh, I wish I could touch on that Susan because I often wonder how you guys shop there I need to get my glasses I have a couple friends who live there and when I see them talk about and They're not WW friends I Wonder if you could order some things online that that didn't help. I don't know how my eyes are going walking All right. Here's my dilemma for today Okay, I need You guys and I know Okay, so if you're here this morning and you didn't see my Video from yesterday. Welcome. I'm glad you're here stick around You know what if you're new here and you're not subscribed Hit that subscribe button and hit the notification button because for a probably for about a week Maybe this is gonna have to be my the way I go is just jumping on live Until I form a pattern and and we talk about all sorts of stuff here It's not all always If you're on keto or something else jump in here, we're all in the same boat. All right, so here here's what I need to Rise above today and I think talking it out will help And if any of you have had this experience, please jump in there with me Because of the big P Uh, I haven't we haven't seen steve's sisters or family Actually, we haven't seen them in two years because we didn't see them Okay, one of them lives in montana one of them lives here and we just haven't seen them. Oh And again, if you weren't here yesterday, I have gained Almost 60 of my pounds back I don't look good. I don't look bad. I've had to buy some clothes. So I'm able to at least Dress well put on some makeup do the other Uh, they have never suffered weight problems. They're both beautiful blonde women with You know slim bodies beautifully nice And we have to go see them today And I don't want to go see them today because I'm so embarrassed over my weight game I'm gonna be Literally even with the men there's going to be two men there my husband and my brother-in-law And they're both 95 pounds dripping wet, right? I'm going to be the only large person in the room which is going to stick out and I'm so embarrassed And I don't want to go But when you have a husband who goes to wal-mart for you in the morning and brings you back keto buns and Different times different things that he thinks is going to help you on your weight loss adventure Because we don't do journeys here You have to do things back for them, right? Uh And I need help getting over myself Feeling good enough about myself Because I can I can go to this Family gathering and I can just pull up a chair in the corner and Zip it and not be involved in the whole thing sip smile. And yeah, it's a beautiful house One of them one of them got a new house. It's lovely Love what you've done with this room, but not get engaged in the conversation And you know you guys you guys know better than anybody except for steve who doesn't I like getting engaged. I like having conversation. I miss conversation. I miss friends. I miss I miss it all And I don't know what to do about this. I am on a roll denise. I'm totally on a roll See your guys stuff. I got to touch the screen and make sure I don't miss any comments I'm feeling good. I have I'm feeling that little You know you guys you know when we are In it not just doing it not just hi tracy So good to see you honey uh But we're really like gung ho. It's not we're not just tracking which I haven't stopped tracking through this whole thing Even though I gained 20 million pounds. I still track everything which is good. Uh, I think Linda's here. She says I totally understand had a reunion in Ohio last month have gained 30 pounds Since they last saw me. I was so ashamed. I still am but they love me and have to remember that You do too Anita Thank you for that Thank you, Linda I'm gonna tuck that up in here I'm hoping to get a couple things from you guys To tuck up in here so that when I'm feeling when I'm in the house with these people and I'm feeling these feels I can go to that because it's it's it's very helpful. That's why I'm here All right, let me go. Okay Denise says Nita you need to remember that no one really is thinking about your weight gain except you See your family and enjoy every minute of every day That's really true, isn't it? That is so That is so so true Because uh, when I see somebody else who's gained weight, I'm not sitting around thinking about it Okay, I'm tucking that over here with what Denise said right Linda said Denise Linda, okay Susan says Understand feeling embarrassed, but need I think everyone is just happy to see each other This past year and a half has taught everyone how important companionship is You're healthy Thank you Susan It is so true. I don't even know you and I know you're oh Denise Thank you I'm gonna need to I'm gonna learn how to accept that's that's another thing I'm gonna put on my list Of things to do in this in now that we're out for the most part. We still have to be careful. We're not going to talk about that though But I'm seeing a surge in Isn't it interesting? I'm going to go back to your comments But I find it to me to be so interesting That in a time when we needed each other the most be it zoom be at instagram be at youtube We we we did the opposite. We all buried Why why am I speaking for everybody? I'm speaking for myself I buried my head in the sand and I went away and I do know of a couple other youtubers that did the same thing And I find that interesting Kathleen says they don't care. They just want to see you They want to see steve and I'm excited for that. Um There is a little backstory. I want to tell you guys Robbie says extra care with Hair and makeup and dying my earrings. We know I do In fact when I when I woke up Even though my my makeup my mama my cup is all smeared all over the place I thought but I can't go on without earrings and I grabbed some earrings Jill says you will have fun. You know, they are wanting to see you. Hello, susan Hi lu. I'm so glad you're here. Did you hear the quandary? Look at there's kitty dog.  Oh, she's curled up. So you can't see it now. She just gets whiter every day Linda says you're excited now about getting back on track and let that set the mood for your visit Everyone is just going to be so glad to be together in person No, kitty dog. Okay lu long story short going to visit in-laws who I've not seen in two years And I have not seen since I gained 60 pounds back and I'm embarrassed and I'm ashamed I mostly want to just crawl. I told steve. Can't we just go to a restaurant visit and come home? Why do we have to visit because I am embarrassed? Uh And that's my quandary But these ladies have come up with some really nice things that are true and I think The fact somebody said and I'm sorry because I'm reading you guys so fast He said nobody really cares about my waking Let me let me add this. I want to I need to add this caveat to the whole thing And for those of you guys who are sticking in here, thank you So when chelsea came back and she brought to lula with her For those of you who may not know to lula is my granddaughter We did not know of her existence. I also have a grandson benjamin. We didn't know of him. My my daughter was away for How long was she gone guys three years? Oh louie, I hope so anyways, um I posted a picture on facebook and My sister-in-law who is The sweetest the kindest the most fun She's just there's nothing negative. I could say about her Uh I said this is to lula. This is my granddaughter. Surprise. Surprise everybody. Don't judge, you know And she got very upset and as she said my brother Is already taking care of one of your grandchildren. Now. He's gonna be responsible for another one She she got very upset Which wasn't the case. I was just meeting her and wanted everybody else to meet her as well And I totally could see her point of view we get defensive for those that we love and it is for younger brother But there was never any closure to it. Um, I wrote her back. I said, hey, no, no, no We're not she's not living with us. I'm not not Uh, we're not taking care of her like we do all of her.   Nancy. Thank you. Um I just have to put it in the past let it go like we often do many things And just talking about it helps and I appreciate you guys so much So when I see her if I get it out with you guys first when I see her Maybe I won't feel as strongly about it.   Thanks for always being an inspiration. Oh always love your hair Oh, give yourself some grace this year and a half has been tough Nancy, thank you for commenting on my hair I literally haven't even brushed it. I sat up in bed and I was like I gotta talk to my homies. That's very sweet. Thank you so much Joan Mabel says no need. Okay Susan says don't sell yourself short. You have such interesting stories about your life.  Susan. You've always been in my corner and I know that and I thank you You know stranger things have happened Hop of playing. I'll take you to all the stores. We'll get you all the stuff and send you back Wouldn't that be fun? Lou says well, I'm sorry that happened, but that's her loss. I understand she feels protective of Steve But she was out of line Uh, she was And uh, it'll all be okay today I need to build up my I need to think about a few things of myself that I like And remember that I'm bringing it to their table, right because I'm gonna that's the thing. I'm gonna be at their table They're not gonna be at mine. I'm sorry. I'm always scratching my nose I have to have a self-conversation that they Nor anyone else is any better than me Uh, but not better than me, but I am not worse than them because I carry weight And um, I do carry interesting that's a great way to put interesting stories about my life and Isn't it funny that when I talk to you guys, I'm not the least been embarrassed about anything. I shouldn't have to be Oh boy, I just caught glimpse of that. Is it scarf weather? Audrey Hepburn wore a scarf or not Audrey but Catherine no matter what the weather maybe I can start Start my own habit, right? So that's what I do just talking about it. Denise is a lot of people say things on social media.  Don't even tell your cat But we're not rich Surprising I know And I it was just pure concern And I get it I just wish it would have been wrapped up with the ribbon and you know what I'm wrapping it up now And I'm tossing it out Loose is neither worthy of all the good things that come your way everybody else who can't be supportive family or not An f off. Thank you Lou. I need to I need to Stick it up here with the other things I'm taking and you know what? You know what's good about doing this live and talking to you this way Okay, another thing. I'm just realizing I love a good realization. Don't you love a good realization? Is that when we're driving over there today I can read your guys's answers again because it'll be on the screen If had I come on here and just done a video And verbally vomited all over you guys And you couldn't reply. Well, that wouldn't have done me any good, right? But coming on live And having your feedback I can come back to it and oh yay for that Susan you have an incredible sense of humor. Thank you I have to find humor and things or else I uh Thank you.  Plus you pretty much have carte blanche to do everything I'm so glad you're here too. I needed a moderator yesterday when I went live Um You're Denise you're right and that's what matters, right? But I do want Them to love me too and they do And it'll be it'll be a lovely visit And then thanks you guys for your help We'll just leave it there got it off my chest out of my system I haven't had breakfast yet. I'm trying to decide what I want to have So tell me enough about me Jill will end with Jill I wouldn't let it get to you if he didn't want to do stuff for all where he wouldn't have but he did Mmm. He kind of had to he was backed into a corner uh Luckily Well, you're right if he didn't want to then he would have had to leave me because I had to It would have been a really rough situation I'm a torus mz welcome mz. I hope you come in peace Because we're a peaceful crowd here and if not I have to stick Lou on you Her and a wrench, uh, but I'm a I'm a torus uh, we're a weight-watching group and uh Um We're we're weight-watchers And people there's some people here.  Wait. Hold on you guys. It's everybody come down Good catch So everybody's gonna say hi to you It's okay. I'll I'll read them back to you later Can you see the comments over here? Hey stevie. What's up? That's Lou She's my moderator see her wrench. Uh that means that if somebody comes in our live feed And and does something bad she just wax them over the head with her wrench Whole face just for a second We were just talking about going to see your sisters. Yeah and my trepidation What's his zodiac sign?  So you could have said goodbye, honey Oh here we take this out with you. This is how weird it is when I got to set you guys up I have to find things to set the pad on Just uh on top of your head if you like All right, so let's go back came in to close the window. He's gonna turn on the air conditioning We have been married for 13 years But we've known each other since we were We ones Good night, and I think you said india didn't you? Good night. Thanks for coming in and saying hi to me in my pals Oh boy I'm gonna have to scrub off this makeup and reapply it Why don't they just make you know so that we could just go the next day? As far as my plan for food I don't remember who I was telling I'm gonna Do what I've always done and I'm gonna keep it simple. I'm gonna keep it very simple Oh, probably but I like it So there's some things that are bad for you that I'm still gonna indulge in I know Denise and you know what my whole life until I came on youtube. I never wore makeup And then you see everybody Applying their makeup and doing their makeup and then you gotta be in with the joneses Plus, you know what I gotta say look better with it on Hi, Sharon. Good morning. Probably it's afternoon where all you guys are now I'm gonna keep I'm gonna do my program the way I've always done it, you know, I see a lot of people changing Jumping from here to this island to that island I'm gonna do it works for me and that's just keeping it simple staying in the same program that I lost my weight on Because doing it was what worked for me The things that didn't work for me. I know exactly what they are And I'm not gonna do them. I'm gonna stay on green I never ever over thought my carbs.  I'm gonna use a couple of minutes. I have to experiment with my weeklies because I don't know exactly where I stand with them.  I'm gonna be done But I'm I if I overthink anything Denise says no that I am old I wear makeup, but I refuse false eyelashes I don't think I've ever tried Sharon. Did I say good morning? Good afternoon to you. I think I did I think I did Linda says whatever she said it shouldn't have been said on social media Oh, okay. Well, you know what? Um, it wasn't it wasn't on social media. It was in a in a private message I'm just going back to see if I missed anything If anybody wants to give me a thumbs up it'll help and I'm gonna start saying these things because I'm gonna come back to My youtube because that's what makes me happy. Look how happy I am because I'm on my youtube It's not the youtube. It's you guys. Is it having access to people who get it? Green Denise. I am green forever green um forever green. Is that a song? If not, it should be uh Green was what the original smart points was was what I lost all my weight on And uh, that's what worked for me. So I'm staying on that. I I love purple Okay, when I am in the mood to cook And I am in the mood for some brown rice and some pasta and stuff I think purple Is the diggity. I think it's healthy Um, Lou, you know, you can always just hide or whatever. I'm leaving it up to you Um, love green because it works for me and for me. I like to be accountable for everything You know, I just need everything I don't like blue blue did not work for me when it was called freestyle. Was it freestyle? That's how far out of my mind. I put it because it just didn't not work for me Uh, I count everything I count my coffee creamer. I count, uh, I don't use a lot of condiments. I only use mustard basically Which is zero points. And again, I go by zero. I don't go by free. Nothing sadly in life is free um, I have A 50 percent no sugar ketchup, which I count I don't take any shortcuts, but I keep it simple. I do what w w tells me to do on the green plan And that what that is what works for me Now the main thing I need to do Linda, thank you for popping in. I hope you're still here Your guys's comments aren't coming up unless I hit the screen. I apologize And yes, you'll be seeing me a lot Sharon. I'll be doing some of those So keep keep you you guys, um Keep your notifications on for those who want to be bugged my me yak and because I think I think I've come through um You guys I was waking up wishing I was dead every single day Literally and the only reason I didn't follow through with any of that Is because of Oliver That's how depressed I was That's how I gained 60 pounds um I would spend I'm gonna get off the subject in a minute because nita's happy and we don't need any downer talk nita.  I would just stay in bed uh Even the last part when oliver was still with us before I really I was not in a good place So I have to remember that It's a good thing. I'm alive Okay, so you guys are the best because you're helping me work this all out just by being here Thank you so much being able to talk about it At least I'm here to go today to see these lovely people, right? At least I came through it.  But the funny thing is is I never ever stopped tracking. I tracked everything you guys Isn't that weird? um But I'm here to be there They're lucky to have me, right? They're lucky to have such a swell sister-in-law because kids. I am swell and and uh That's their family needs a little bit of Zing if you know what I'm saying There's long spells of quietness And I came to break it up. All right. Let me see what you guys are saying Um Denise has green works best for me too. I have been doing w w since god was a corporal Sharon says I've gained 40 and it is so hard on my body. I'm so very disappointed in myself Sharon Okay, you and me girl. We're gonna do this together whether you like it or not. I'm I'm Wrangling you in Uh I spoke in my live yesterday for those who didn't see it real quick Walking getting around on our vacation walking flat streets Uh, I had to stop and sit down the stairs. I had to stop mid-stair This is from a person who was walking seven miles a day You know seven miles a day now. I can barely In my hips and it's because it's all in my gut. So all this weight in my gut But you know what? I'm gonna change it and it's gonna take some time and that I need to be uh Patient See I'm going back because like I said, it doesn't show up Sharon we can do this and we can get our smiles back And when I'm doing something I'm gonna be thinking of you I will do some cook with me's Susan is true blue worked for me from day one. That's fabulous But everyone has to find the plan that works for them Exactly and I would never try to tell somebody you have to do grain because because green's the only way No, it's what works for you I'm sorry guys.  I would bet the fam the farm That someone else there has struggled with this past year and a half over however long it's been not this particular, um Problem there's gonna be four of us six of us There's gonna be six of us Uh My sister's in law. There's two of them their husbands myself and my husband Uh, and they're all the nicest people that you can I'm just embarrassed Make it about them ask them how they are doing. Ooh I should be taking notes You are wrangled in Linda else's life is difficult at least you're honest with your emotions That helps others who aren't as willing to admit their struggles linda I cannot thank you enough For taking the time to write that out because my friend After I do these lives sometimes while I'm doing these lives or when I'm doing my regular videos.  It's who I've always been. It's what's got me the most trouble in my life It's got me what's the most love in my life. It's it's a it's a it's a tight rope walk. I never know what's gonna happen with it I appreciate you saying that because I like sharing Because I have heard things from other people that greatly affect The way I think about something it'll turn my mind, you know, you know, that's that's a way of looking at something that I never thought about And I hope that in my honesty and in my drastic emotions It's seen that way Sharon says went on to college visits with Christopher and was sobbing the three quarters of the way through Okay, first of all, I'm sorry for the sobbing second of all I didn't know you had a chris with a k like I do but his is ff not ph Oh, but you got to see him Well, let's see wait, I missed something Oh, he's just looking at colleges right now. Oh, I wish I could give you advice on that I've never been on any sort of Maybe Be like so full of joy that he wants you there That you're allowed to be in on The whole experience because let's be honest, you know, our kids take a turn like Oliver right now Anything anything is up for conversation you guys before I read what Lou said Anything's up for conversation. Did you get a new car? Did you get a new house? Did you move? Are you excited about it the college tours are 90 minutes of walking and I couldn't do it.  I haven't been walking at all We'll work on that we got it. We got to get that. I know it's only been a day, so we're good We're gonna get that private message Lucis, this is totally random before I forget. There's a Disney archives exhibit at Graceland Graceland what the heck is Walt's stuff doing at Elvis's pad?  That's a trip Sharon slowly but surely and does he understand where you are like if you say hey pal We need to pull over to the bench and just Kick it for a few and then we'll get back up and continue on our journey. Does he understand that?  I got somebody here for you. Oh, it's a doozy. I got it um God people are idiots, aren't they don't you just have to feel so sorry for these idiots? I'm sorry Sharon that got me off track um, I think the only thing you and I can do is Walk on our free time and get our walking back Denise I'm sorry you guys. I had a couple trolls. I had to get off and I got off Denise says we are headed to the mountains next month. I can't wait to get out of the south florida heat Hopefully we will be doing some mild hiking. There you go way to look at it Susan says I'm thinking about retiring and moving to my family home in north carolina I don't have any family left. The big P was hard on me and still is I know it was This is a huge decision for me Thank you, honey It changed all our lives, didn't it? There I go again speaking for everybody. I need to stop speaking for everybody It changed my life It changed My life from Appreciating what steve's giving me appreciating what I have appreciating my grandson Appreciating my daughter's sobriety.  Chelsea is like, oh, she joined WW with me. She's doing the green program. I need to get her over here. I need to take her and buy her I have scale.  We haven't talked in person. She's excited about it. I'm excited She's doing it. I just wish she was geographically closer Denise me too But but but not for the better. I came It's I came out of it instead of going boy, that was horrible, but Here we go. I'm there now. I was just still Uh, like I mentioned earlier in a really scary dangerous place Scary and dangerous All over saved my life. So yeah, so that's that's the plan I'm gonna be doing a lot of taping. I'm gonna be hopping on live a lot. Like I said for the reason that I'm not Um set up yet with my camera and oh shoot. I didn't even think about this you guys with my iPad broken When I do film with my camera How am I gonna upload it? I guess I'm gonna have to learn how to do it on my phone. You know what today? I'm gonna take my iPad somewhere and see if they can fix it Yay, Chelsea would love to see you two do a cook with me.  I'm not saying anything. I wouldn't say if she wasn't sitting right here with me She's a huge class Which takes a shower in my shower that are both uh all glass I pray a little prayer before she gets in that she doesn't fall out The last time she took a shower I was like a tenor noise and those doors and all I could think of was blood You know, I was like this She is um Yay, Chelsea would look um She has a great sense of humor She has a great laugh. She has a great smile Yeah, that's something I need to work on Did you see I'll Lou, are you in the mood for some bubbles? Under the sea Under the sea So, yeah, I need to get her up here to do that. I know and then when I'm watching Uh the twin man Door This morning at two o'clock in the morning. I woke up There you go.  What's this one glow? Well, that's not a glow. That's that's That's nothing I like this one Oh, I like this. I kind of like this one. I might finish off in this one Do I have any any drawers in I know It's no glow. Anybody want to draw me my nostrils Very prominent nostrils Oh no This one Lou. I like this one Oh, here's if I want to do documentary now I like this one sophisticated It's like if I was grand my grandmother Why don't you guys show up? So let me end this so you guys can get on with your lives because I could just talk forever Please Um, I do too Lou Susan get off the floor off the floor Susan Until I get my whole situation worked out it's gonna be It's there's gonna be no Bye Denise. Thanks for thanks for being here honey There's it's that I gotta figure out a routine. I gotta learn how to use my camera I have to learn how to load my camera somewhere to put it on youtube Um, please like and subscribe just so that when I do come on live and I need to have a good healthy chat You need to have a good healthy chat Um, thank you Lou. You guys will know even though I don't know about you guys, but my notifications for people that I watch They come up a day after I've already watched all their videos So if you want to throw in a thumbs up before you split if you have not already that's always appreciated Now that I'm coming back Robbie says 23 year old grandson FaceTimed me from Peter Pan yesterday Yay Hey Robbie was he in Disneyland or Disney World? Smash that like button y'all Oh Lou I I've been to Disneyland twice Since it opened back up. We opened up, uh, we're at Disney World There there rules are very different out there than out here.  I'm gonna go back Towards Christmas because it's Christmas, but it's not my Disneyland yet I just didn't feel right plus with all this weight getting around was Very painful. I'm not gonna get into the whole thing, but Good for him. I'm glad he's having a good time All right, you guys I guess I better get figure out what I'm gonna wear wash my face get everything going See you and I Susan We were thinking the same thing Thank you. Thank you guys with with all my heart. Thank you For let me just pop back in here out of being who knows where for the last year and a half I could tell you where I've been in bed Just in bed I've loved you guys to death Thank you for all the input I'll be reading it in the truck and I'll see you real soon Drink your water and know your bathrooms are again. I can say that because we're out and about now Thank you, Lou. Have a great day Thank you, Linda. I will I will I'm gonna read back everything you guys wrote several times before I stepped foot into the Uh Wherever what what kind of face was that? What kind of face was what the one you gave me? Thank you Sharon and right back at you my friend We'll see you soon because I gotta come back and let you know how it goes, right? So maybe tomorrow we'll have some sundae coffee


I am here in the frontline to support those migrants in need, those migrants that are on the move, particularly those who want voluntarily to return to their countries of origin. But it's here also to support the communities that host up, to guarantee that with our efforts we make their living together easier and that we fully respect their human rights and their dignity. When you get to this place, what you are looking for is clear. I need someone to show me love, to show that I have hope, who have the time to listen to you, who are ready to help. That is what people in our situation want. That's what IWAM is doing here in Nagades.


Welcome, and thanks for joining us for the nonprofit show. We're excited that you have chosen to spend your time with us here. Today, we are helping John Lepp with his book launch, and it's all about creative deviations. John is joining us again. He's not a new face, not a new voice, and we're really glad to have you back. John is the author of Creative Deviations and works with agents of good. Joins us from Canada, and we are thrilled to have you. So we'd love some of your weather right now, because as we shared in the Green Room Tratter, it's a little bit warm over here.  Julia Patrick joins us, of course. Julia is the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. I'm honored that she keeps me around. I'm Jarrett Ransom. I haven't been kicked off or fired yet. I'm the non-profit nerd CEO of the Raven Group, and if you can't tell, I have a lot of fun here serving as co-host. Thanks also to our sponsors, because they keep us playing in this playground. So thank you to Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Fundraising Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, your part-time controller, Nonprofit Atlas, the non-profit thought leader, as well as Staffing Boutique. These companies exist to help you do more good. They also help us stream onto these various platforms, Roku, YouTube, Fire TV, Vimeo. So if you missed any of our almost 600, yes, 600 episodes, you can find them on these platforms as well as podcast forms.  And of course, John today as our guest, just honored to have you back, John. So welcome back my friend, glad to have you. Very kind, I appreciate that. Thanks for the intro. You know, John, I love the name of your business. I think an agent of good is like, that's the title I wanna have. Before we get into your book and really this fabulous work that you're doing and sharing, can you talk to us a little bit about what your firm does and your approach to working with nonprofits? Sure, I mean, the nutshell, I'm not gonna bore him with our detailed bio of what we do, the nutshell is that Jen Love and I have been running agents of good since 2009 and we serve charities mostly with our individual giving programs. So in that we work with a lot of direct mail still, a lot of digital work. We do a lot of coaching. We help our friends and colleagues around the world improve themselves in the work every day. And Jen, I'm a storytellers, I'm a designer and a writer, Jen is a writer. We love sharing stories of amazing people in this world and we're very blessed to have this job. So I love it, it's great to do this every day. It's amazing. You know, I think it's such a neat thing to talk to people like you who have that creative spirit but understand the nuts and bolts of business and how we can kind of marry the two. And when we heard you had written a book and that you have a new book out, we were like, we have to get you on and learn more about this because it's a really interesting premise. And so creative deviations, talk to us about this. How did you come about this? There's a book that was written in 1995 by a chap named George Smith, English fellow and the book was called Asking Properly. And so when I started out my career, that was a book that really everyone had to read. And really it talked about how the sort of smallest deviations, the nearest bit of pioneering in our work can actually lead to really amazing things. And I remember reading it and then being trained by many amazing fundraisers through my career who taught me all these things in this book. And I think I sat down like, I don't know maybe five or six years ago on a vacation. And I thought I'd reread again and I was struck by how much of it still was true. And there were things that people still weren't doing that were taught and shared in this book. And also the foundation of my own understanding of my work. So George talked about this idea of deviations which I really, really love because in our work, we've been accused of being innovative. And for me, innovative is a scary word. I don't want people to think of this as innovative because we're not innovative. We're just basically just doing the basics right over and over and over and over again. So creative deviations is a real about fundamental understanding of direct marketing and direct response. It's about how to tell great stories. It's like what are the components you need to make something successful? How to creatively tell these stories? So it's sort of a bit of, it's an evergreen book that should cover off a lot of different ideas with tons of examples and creativity. So I'm super excited by it, obviously. Wow, you know, I love, Jared, don't you think we don't use or hear the word creativity very much in the nonprofit sector? No, or deviation, right? Like disruption, innovation, that's starting to kind of get out there. And you're right, John, typically it's a negative connotation. Like, whoa, that is just too much. We can't do that. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't want any of this to be scarier and intimidating because it really isn't. I mean, at the end of the day, the two things I like to get across is that we are having conversations with these other people we call humans. And every day in our work, that's what we're doing. So anything that's in this book is just helping you have better conversations with these humans who really, really want to help you. That's what they want to do. But we get in the way of that all the time. So again, there's nothing too scary in here. I mean, yes, we push some boundaries in terms of here's some different ways you can do these things. Like when I was on the show before, we talked about Ruby the Hummingbird, using a voice like that can be very intimidating, but that becomes a professionalism conversation. We're afraid to be vulnerable and emotional in our storytelling. These are things that just get in the way of letting donors do what they really want to do, which is help us. And we do it very, very well and it drives me crazy. So this again, it really leans into the idea let's go the way and just connect with other humans and be normal humans who are just saying we could use your help with this. Do you want to help us? So I have to witness to you, John. One of my clients, it's a child welfare organization and the modality or the vehicle that they use is pet therapy. And what we decided to do for one of their recent direct mail pieces was instead of a person telling the story, we used the dog. And the dog told the story and I kept thinking of Ruby and I kept thinking of a mascot. And we received so many letters of that was amazing. I loved hearing the story of spot or I loved hearing, and it's like that was creative because I really feel like our ego was taken away and we shot straight from a dog. What would the dog say? All the way down to like my favorite dog park and my favorite kibble and it was just like, it was fun and it was lighthearted. And that was such a good response from so many of the people that received it. So thank you for planting that seed. My pleasure. Yeah, I mean, it's scary to talk about it. It's scary to do, but that is an extreme example. There are lots of things again that you can do that aren't quite as scary because it gets as you probably experienced that people get really nervous about that kind of storytelling. But that's a deviation. Everyone else is doing the same thing 90, 95% of the time. Everyone's doing exactly the same thing. So what are the small little things you can do that will actually put you on a whole different path with your storytelling and fundraising? Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, as Julia has the slide up that creativity, how does creativity begin to impact donors? And how have you seen that? Because this is not your first radio, you started in 2009. So how have you started to really see how creativity impacts our donors, our giving, that culture of philanthropy? Again, I think it's creativity. When I talk about design creativity, I'm really talking about how everything works together. It is partially graphic design. It is partially writing. It's partially all these different, partially strategies. All creativity is all of these things. And so the thing is that there are little things. Like I think as a direct mail nerd, I'm always thinking about the other envelope. And I've joked with this a million times that I lie awake at night thinking about the other envelope because if I make a mess of it, then it's brilliant letter written by Jen Love or Tom or her or really anybody won't get read and acted upon. And so, it's a small moment of what can I do and what can I send so that when that donor reaches into your mailbox and opens the lid and pulls all of their packs out and the United States are getting what? Between 40 and 50 appeals in sometimes per day. So they're pulling a big stack of mail and how can you stand out? And that's my job number one. It's actually not that difficult because most organizations are sending their number 10 envelope. So again, using a larger envelope or a smaller envelope that is massive in the context of being innovative and creative because everyone is doing exactly the same thing. And I talk about like handwriting instead of using your dumb logo on the top corner of the envelope. Just get your ID of the letter sign to write their name and their address in the top corner and put that on there. Also that looks like personal mail. If you put it for a first class stamp on it smear some ink, put a couple of coffee rings on it. I mean, this pack is getting opened immediately. But that's all monumentally innovative and monumentally creative compared to what everyone else is doing. So, and these things by themselves are no big deal. I mean, I think it's fascinating if you were like really a stamp on an angle. I'm like, yes, a stamp on an angle is a very 2022, here we are is a very, very innovative idea because no one's doing it. So it's funny you mentioned the envelope, Sean, because with inflation and shipping these number nine and 10 envelopes are really hard to come by. And so we might be forced to deviate, right? And wow, what if that actually changed the dynamics and the metrics in a good way? Are you having that same challenge with actually getting a hold of envelopes of a certain size? Yeah, absolutely. And we're, I mean, paper supplies issue all over the place. But I'm for this. I like this idea. The reason I like this idea is because it's gonna force organizations to think about who are they actually mailing? Who are they going to spend the money on and make sure they do a good job of it?  It'll have stops. You have to be more thoughtful. We're gonna spend the money and that's actually make money, right? That shotgun approach, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's too profound. It's like digital. I was like, digital is free. No, digital is not free. It's costing you a lot of money actually to use digital because a lot of you are using it incorrectly because you're just like, well, I can just send out a thousand emails or 10,000 emails, but it is costing money because you're doing it wrong. You're not being thoughtful about who you're actually mailing or what you're asking for. So again, these things for me, I like this idea of scare in that context that like limitation of like, wow, we can't, we can't mail everybody. No, you actually segment who you're talking to. All your donors are all different. You have to think of them as different people because they're different people. All right, be mindful, separate the list, maybe even change up the story a little bit. Those little deviations, the way to change or to maneuver a cruise ship, a cargo ship is by one degree, right? One degree turn every time.  What about the storytelling that you can share with us, John? Like, how are you seeing the storytelling connecting with the donors? So every conference we go to right now, one of the chapters and one of the deviations in the book is called Storytelling Is Dead because every single, everything you go to, I want to talk about story, story, story. You need a good story. You have to tell a good story all the time. What you're actually missing is something more important. In my coaching, I see letters far too often that are filled with an interesting story and nothing else. First and foremost, you actually need to be clear on what you're asking for. And sometimes that's your offer. When you can figure out what you're actually asking for and you've done that properly, sometimes you don't even need a story. So, but storytelling, stories are important. I'm not discounting stories, but you still need an offer first. But stories, since we've been cavemen and cavewomen, we've been telling each other stories. We're connected to each other in our communities, in through our friends and families and people in our lives by the stories we share with one another. When I share a story, I'm sharing my values and things I believe in as a human or organizationally by telling stories. So again, we're telling stories that represent our values as an organization. So I break down in the book like a letter to show how every single paragraph of this letter that Jen wrote touches on a value of the organization and has an emotion attached to it. And our letters should look like that. It should have exchange of values and exchange of emotions because when we're sitting here talking and having a conversation over Rosé or water or wherever we're drinking, we're sharing values. We're sharing our stories and it allows you to connect with me or go, this guy's a jerk, right? So storytelling is super, super important, but a clear offer. What you still have to ask for something. And I see too many letters that just tell great stories or okay stories sometimes and don't actually get around to asking for anything. And that's a big flaw. So people are like, what's all a great story? I'm like, yeah, but you didn't ask me for anything. So it failed. You know, I've never, I don't know, Jared, correct me if we're wrong, if I'm wrong. I've never heard anybody talk about that. We're now in our like third year of the nonprofit show. And you're right, everybody's hammering, storytelling, storytelling, storytelling, but not that actual action or ask or next step. It's really an interesting way to be more thoughtful about why we're telling the story. Yeah, and I wanna ask John, do you recommend that we ask once in this, let's say it's a direct mail-in piece or are we asking multiple times? You can ask multiple times in a direct mail piece as long as you're asking for the same thing multiple times. Yes. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, again, one of the things that George talked about a little bit in his book was the idea of asking for one thing. In North America, we have a thing called the annual appeal. A lot of cherry-scented annual appeals. And the premise of an annual appeal is basically renew your support, renew your support. Well, in the UK, for example, or Australia or New Zealand, they don't use that kind of approach at all as much as I know. They use more of what we call a special approach. So every appeal they send out is a special piece that asks for something specific. It's not, we're not asking to renew your support. We're saying, here's an issue we're asking for your help on. And so every appeal you send out is saying, here's an issue we're working on. We need your help with this. This is what your formulas will do. This is the impact that we'll have. Thank you for doing that. So again, we on the North America side have gotten a bit, some of my charity colleagues get on me for this or I think we're too British in our approach. But when you ask for something specifically, if I'm having a conversation with you guys, obviously I need your help, I've got a specific thing, not just say renew your friendship with me and then I'll see you in a year for another glass of wine. You know, we sit down, we talk about, the things we're working on, we need help with, right? And we have to do that in our fundraising too. It is an ongoing conversation and the conversation is two-sided. So again, to answer your question, yes, you can ask multiple times in a pack, but make sure you're only asking for the same thing. Don't ask me for 50 things in a mail pack. And I see reply forms is against in here too. Reply forms that have too many decisions I need to make as a donor. Analysis paralysis is an actual real thing that happens to us as we all know when you're standing at a restaurant looking the big menu of all the things you can buy, you get frozen. It's too much, too much. But if there's three things on a menu, I can make a new decision, I'm probably gonna make a decision. But when there's a hundred things, I'm just like, oh, it's too exhausting. I need to go. And you walk away and you think, I'll get to that later and then let's be honest, we don't get back to it because all of those options are still there. I'm with you, John, give me two options, I'll pick one or don't even give me an option, tell me what I'm having. Exactly right, and the more you do that for your donor, it's the same thing. The more they're going to do it because you made it easy for them to make decisions. So they'll do it.  Is this really something that someone outside of our organization can do? I mean, clearly you're doing it, but talk to us about this. I want to come across wellness very, very cautiously because I do believe that people can learn these things. There's a reason why I wrote this book was because I do want, my dad was a teacher, my wife's parents were teachers, I'm surrounded by teachers. You know, I want to actually teach people and give them a book that they can go, okay, this isn't scary, it is scary. This is challenging me, but I can do this, I've got this. So I'm going to try a couple of things that are outside our comfort zone, but we can do this. I think my major concern is people who are in charge of fundraising or in charge of direct response that are making decisions or approving things that have no idea about these things. I'm sure everyone watching this show today goes through the conferences, they watch shows like this, they learn a lot constantly, and yet they're undermined by bosses or people who have no idea and no experience at all of what they're talking about and putting their subjective opinions on this work. It's like, you know, I've argued with people with marketing comms, marketing comms, people approving fundraising makes no sense to me. Marketing comms doesn't have to make money, my work does. If the envelope I make doesn't raise money, then I get fired or you get fired. And so again, that's where I run the problems. I'm not concerned about regular staff because we're all investing ourselves, we're all learning, we're all the time, we're trying new things. It's the people who don't know what they're talking about that are really making our work really difficult and destroying a lot of very amazing things that would actually further our sector. They're not helping at all. That's like a, that's crazy, that's crazy talk, John. I'm gonna have to think about that because you know, I do see that in our sector. I see these organizations that have made major and are making major, major financial commitments to a marketing comm, you know, we call them marcom but marketing communications departments. And you are right, it is separate from our fund development and we're being measured in different ways. It's a really interesting comment, interesting way to look at it. Yeah, and I also see it at the board table, right? Wow. Directors and John, that hit me so hard at home with, you know, these are subjective opinions. These are not professional. These are not based off of data, right? And one of the big ones is we send out too many pieces. We send out too many communications. We are emailing too often or mailing too often or oh my gosh, if we do that again, we're gonna lose our followers. Well, you might lose a few but I say good riddance, right? Because you're also reinvesting in those people that are right there walking side by side and they actually with metrics tend to give more, tend to give longer and actually shows a positive swing as opposed to that negative. So preach it, say it again, my friend. It has to be right though. I think that's a thing, Jared. I mean, it has to follow with what John is saying is what is that strategy so that you're not just peppering stuff out just to tick the box to say, yeah, I got this out this month or this week. And I say this in the book too. I mean, as a designer, I have my own preferences and fonts and colors and that sort of thing but I have to check all of that. And so any designer I hire or work or bring on board, I have to sort of untrain them from all these things they've been freaking taught at school because it's not about what you think. I have to think about what actually works and I know what works and that's what I have to put in my work. So again, these things are learnable. The only other thing I would throw out there and I'm clear about this is there work. We live in a world that's looking for defendants all the time. Just tell me the answer. Just tell me that there are very few defendants in fundraising. This is a craft. This is an art form. There are lots of things you can try and test and you will see certain things emerge over and over and over again. But again, if you're looking for, if a consultant's gonna show up and give you defendants, this will all work all the time. This will never work for you. You don't mean run away. There is nuance in this art form. It is a craft and it's worth trying different things. You're not gonna break it. But again, it's people who have no idea about anything, a frequency or colors or any of this stuff that are actually getting the way of our organizations making a heck of a lot of money and making a bigger impact on whatever problem we're trying to solve. So that does rub me the wrong way. Constantly. So then given that, and I respect that opinion, what is an appropriate process or time to help guide us to see if we are doing the right thing? I mean, if we're saying, okay, we're gonna do a direct mail piece and it's gonna solve all our problems, that's not really what's happening. We need to have a journey and understand, right? But what does that look like? Is that two quarters? Is that a whole year? Is that six years? What is it that we should be thinking about in terms of understanding the impacts of these actions and these decisions that we take? I'm still not sure I understand the question. Does that- Like how long is that process gonna be? I think we've put all our eggs in one basket and we're like, we're gonna do a direct mail and it's gonna solve all our problems as opposed to doing what you're saying. And really have a journey and a process to evaluate. But how long should we be on that journey to understand if it's working or not? It's never ending.  I mean, I can't grow a best friend overnight. It takes time and I'm not saying your daughters wanna be your best friend. But again, when you acknowledge the fact that I'm mentoring to like us, we've never actually met the three of us in real life and stuff, but we've already had a couple conversations. We are sharing our values with one another. We know when we do get together, we're gonna be like further along versus the first time. We're investing in this work and stuff. It does take time, but organizationally think we're just supposed to send something into the world and go, you have to give it to us because we're doing this and not even say thanks.  They're a bit fatigued to giving everyone stuff. No, no, you're not doing the hard work you need to do on your side. They're prepared to do it, but not if you make a step up first. So again, it is an ongoing thing. It does take time. You can't just like do one mail pack. It's like frequency. You can't do one mail pack a year and think it's gonna make any big splash in the water because your donors are being asked all over the place by lots of people. You need to invest in them by sending them things that they care about and ask lots of questions. What am I gonna care about? Why should they care about this right now? Why is this an issue for them? Why should they do something for us? And how can we allow them to do that as easily as possible? Those are questions you have to ask yourself before you do any appeal at all. But like not doing that, it's too much hard work. I always focus on the ask, think, report, repeat pattern. Ask, think, report, repeat. Ask, think, report, repeat. And then also Julia really looking at this quarterly, what are the metrics? And as John said, it's an ongoing thing. We don't stop. We just continue gathering data, analyzing data and making these creative deviations as we continue throughout the year. One of the things I do is create a 12-month calendar, but that 12-month calendar is really next year's calendar as well because you're analyzing what you did last year and you're making those creative deviations based off of data and metrics. It's never ending, right? I don't think it is. And I think to John's point, we're barraged with so many opportunities to support and promote and those things change. I mean, hello, look at COVID. Look at how many of our donors and our funders completely shifted because of what was going on. So yeah, this is an ever moving target, if you will. And I think that's part of the frustration, but that's why we need the creativity. I wanna let everybody know John Lep's book, Creative Deviations. John, how can we get this book? If you go to abesogood.org slash creative or just go to that homepage, you'll see a link for it and it'll click through right now to the publisher's website. So it's on pre-sell, it's just start selling. It should be up in Amazon very, very soon. We're working on a digital version as well for people who are like in Australia and don't wanna wait six years to get it in the mailbox so they can download a digital version as soon as possible. But that's easiest way is just go to our website and you click through from there. Awesome. And do you have a copy sitting on your desk? I have, this is the printer proof. So this is- Ah! It's just- Awesome! So there's lots of pictures and the font is very, very big. So it's very readable. I've written it at a grade, I think it's 5.6 reading level. The reading eats is something like 82%. So this is a very easy reading, easy to look at. So don't worry, everything's nice and big and lots of things to look at. I love it. I'm gonna grab my Rosé, a highlighter, a pen and your book. I cannot wait to get my hands on that. Yeah. Yes, I hope it finds an audience. I really honestly, I know I wrote this freaking thing but I actually really do think this is stuff that's based on all the things I've been sharing my whole career and have been helped me through my life and my career. I really do think this is gonna make a big difference to many, many organizations if they take the time to look at it. And it's evergreen. I hope it's around for at least a generation because I think it's gonna make a big difference. So I- Well, thank you for your creativity and taking the deviations that you and your company do all the time through your leadership. I really appreciate it. It's very refreshing. Thank you. Thank you both. I appreciate it too. It's been lovely.  Well, Smith, yes. Thank you, Mr. Smith. I think that's a cool thing because we need as much information as we can get and especially on this topic. So this is amazing. We look forward to getting that in our hot little hands and I agree, Jarrett, we need to sit down and go through this with our markers and our pens. Again, John Lepp, agents of good, agentsofgood.org. Check him out and see what he's got going on. Really important stuff here and we have loved having you back on. Again, we wanna thank all of the sponsors that we love that are here with us every day as well. William Morang American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit nerd, fundraising academy, nonprofit Atlas, nonprofit thought leader and staffing boutique. Without these folks, we would not be here day in, day out marching towards our 600 episode. Wow, amazing. Hard to believe, huh, Jarrett? Yeah. You're like, really? No, there's days, but conversations like this are totally that booster shot of energy. Yesterday was as well and so I really do love it.  It is fun. It's amazing. This is amazing work we get to do every day. Absolutely, absolutely. It's true, it makes a difference. Hey, everybody, as we like to end every episode, we want to remind ourselves and our viewers and our listeners to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone.


Welcome everyone to another narc survival live video. In this one I have a very important message for you and definitely every target, every victim, everyone who has been abused by a narcissist needs to see this video right now. Yes, if you have been abused by a narcissist it's very important that you are aware of this information that I am about to provide to you in this video and by the end of this video that will all make sense to you. You will be very glad that you clicked on this video. Before I begin with this message, hit that thumbs up button down below so that it will help the YouTube algorithm to get this message out there to other survivors who will need to see it as well. I am going to begin with making a very important point that you all need to be very aware of and in fact this really applies to anyone that you may be dealing with in your life. So even for those of you, you may be unsure of whether or not you were dealing with a narcissist. This applies to you as well. So here is the very important point that I would like to make before I get into this message.   They're going to treat you like their fan. And you know at times some of us may not like to accept this, but to be fair at times this is our fault because we have to look at our own behaviors and how we're treating this person like a king or a queen, a celebrity. And by doing that we are putting them on a pedestal. We're putting them above us, above ourselves. We're making them more important. So of course when we do that, they are going to look down on us. They're going to see it as though they must be superior to us. And I know what some of you may be thinking. You may be thinking, no survivor. I didn't treat them so much like a king or a queen or even a celebrity. I'm just an empathic person. I just treated them with basic decency, kindness, love and respect. And yeah, to be fair, in many cases that may be it. You may be right. But when you're dealing with narcissists, it's not like a normal person. Any attention that you give to them, any validation, compliments or praise, it goes to their head. It feeds their ego. So you have to be very careful when you're giving that to them. Because it is having a very powerful effect. It's giving them a narcissistic supply. It is inflating their ego, boosting their self-esteem to the point where they feel like they're better than you. And then they develop this arrogance and sense of entitlement to where they start expecting or even demanding so many things from you. When they haven't done anything to earn it. They haven't done anything for you in return. And yet here you are. You're doing all of the work for them. You're doing everything you can to please them, to make them happy. When it's like, what are they doing for you? You're making their lives easier. You're pacifying them. You're babying them.  Rather than an individual, separate, mature, responsible adult. Who at this point in their lives should be able to take care of themselves. And in all honesty, it's not really good for them either because you're disabling them. When you're doing all of these things for them and they don't have to do anything to earn it in return. You know that's translating to them. It's telling them that they don't have to work for anything. They never have to take responsibility. They don't have to do anything for you or anyone else.   And then they're going to get it from them. So they live in this perpetual state of underdevelopment. But they never have to depend on themselves.  And instead, they can just depend on other people for the rest of their lives. There could be leeches, parasites, bottom feeders, whatever you want to call them. They don't have to do anything for themselves. A lot of times we do need to look at our actions, especially in the beginning of when we're dealing with them. Because look back, you really gave them an easy ride. You had everything laid out on a plate for them. Everything was prepared, ready for them to consume, to partake in, to be a part of. And they didn't have to do anything for it. And a lot of times it's because they come in and they make you feel bad for them. They make you feel like it's your duty to step in and pull them out of the pit that the last person apparently left them in. So it's your job to help them, to make them feel better. They appeal to our empathetic side, to where we want to save them. We want to rescue them. And then before you know it, you're doing everything you can for this person and they are just elevating themselves at your expense. Without even thinking about how they're going to do anything for you. And that is not a nice position to be in. Where someone just takes everything you've got and they just don't even appreciate it, they take it for granted. You're just being manipulated and used. And when you start expecting something back in return, and here they come with the lies, the future faking. They just try and get you to wait around for something to happen at some point in the future to where they will finally reciprocate back to you. But they never do. And the more time you spend with them, the more you lose of yourself, your time, your energy, your money and resources.  Who doesn't even care about you. They're not even there for you. Not like how you're there for them. And it's not the same for every situation. But we need to look back and recognize. Did we treat this person like a celebrity? Or like a king or a queen? Did we give too much of ourselves in the beginning? Did we not expect enough of them in return? Did we just fall for their lies and future faking? Because if we did, you know, in many ways, that is our fault. That is our responsibility. And that doesn't take away their wrongdoing. They still made it belated and exploited us. They strung us along. And that's on them. But in order for things to be different the next time around, we do need to look at ourselves. Because there are a lot of people like this out there who will take your kindness for granted. They will see your love as a weakness as something for them to exploit. So we do need to be very cautious of that. And when we get ourselves at these types of relationships, it can make us question our own worth, our own qualities and abilities as though we're not good enough. Because it's like if we were good enough, then why would they treat us that way? Why would they do that to us? Why would they drain us, take what we have, waste our time and give us nothing back in return? If we were worthy of more? I mean, that's what we might ask ourselves, especially at the end of the relationship. But what we need to understand is that that really says nothing about our worth. It says very little about us and everything about them. As I've said before, how a person treats us. That is a direct reflection of how they feel about themselves. If they loved themselves, if they respected themselves, they would have loved and respected us as well. So what I'm really saying in this message is to not let their behavior get to you. Don't let it make you feel like you're any less of a person. I know it's hard sometimes. Someone treats you a certain way. It could be something so simple. When someone just cuts you off the roads. And you look at it like, what's wrong with me? What's so bad about me? Am I not good enough? Am I invisible? Do I just not exist for someone to do that to me? I mean, as empaths, that's how we think. We look at ourselves, we self-loathe with what we should be doing. And this is something all of us need to do as empaths. Because it's the opposite of what we naturally do. Of what we've been programmed to do since we were children. So what we need to do instead of just automatically questioning ourselves our worth, doubting our abilities when someone doesn't approve of us, or they just treat us in an ill manner type of way that harm us to put us down or they're just neglecting us, ignoring us. Instead of looking at ourselves and thinking that there's something wrong with us, we should be looking at them and their actions and questioning, what's wrong with you? For you to treat me that way because that's really yet their behavior. It says nothing about us. And it says everything about them. And to know that you've only got to put yourself in their shoes and know that you wouldn't treat another person that way. You wouldn't be so inconsiderate to someone. You wouldn't devalue them, neglect them, treat them with contempt. You wouldn't do that. And the reason why is because you're happy with yourself. You love and accept yourself. They don't. That's how they can put that on to you. When you're around them and then you start feeling that way. You start feeling like it's something wrong with you. I really believe that this is one of the most important messages on narcissistic abuse that you will probably find on YouTube. I really believe that in all of my research, my experience. That's why I titled it every target of a narcissist needs to see this right now. Because I believe that yes, they really do. It's very important because it's an automatic response for us. When someone blames us, when someone makes us feel bad about ourselves, or they just treat us a certain way they neglectful that you consider it, they're abusive. What does that do as empaths? Automatically it makes us look at ourselves, question our worth. It makes us believe that something must be wrong with us. We're not good enough. And automatically we think we need to prove ourselves. We need to be better. When the truth is, I can tell you, if there was a perfect person walking the earth, and I mean, they could be perfect in every way. They could be perfect in appearance. The most beautiful, handsome person in the world. And they could have perfect qualities, perfect abilities that could be completely flawless. And of course, that type of person, they could not be a narcissist because that's flawed in itself. They would have to be an empath. For them to be an empath, even if they were perfect in every way, in appearance, their qualities and abilities. The narcissist treated them a certain way, blamed them. That person would look themselves and think, I need to be even better for you. I need to work on myself even more. That gap, that contrast. And I'm sure many of you have experienced this. It's that the distance between us as victims and a narcissist, in terms of the value that we are providing, the amount that we are doing for them, in contrast to what they're doing for us, it just gets greater and greater as time goes on. And it gets to such an incredible extreme.  Just look at that in contrast to what they're doing for you. I mean, you could be flying them to the moon and back. You could be upgrading their entire lives. They could have really came up with you. But then you look at it, and it's like, they're doing nothing for you. I'm sure many of you have experienced that where it's like, you could be doing all the work. Maybe you've got a 95 job every day, you're working, you're making the money so that they can spend it and buy the things that they like, and they're not working, they're just sitting on the couch every day watching TV. And at the same time, you're looking after the kids, you're washing their clothes, their dishes, cooking them food, driving them around wherever they need to go. And they're doing literally nothing for you. It gets to that point a lot of times. And yet we still keep this person around. Even while we're doing everything and they're actually posing as a liability to us. Because we're investing all of our time, energy, effort, money and resources into this relationship and we're getting nothing back in return. But not only that, it's also draining us, straining the life of us. It's affecting our mental, emotional, and even physical health. It's ruining our lives, just to keep them comfortable, stable and secure, just to keep their lives together, our lives have to fall apart. And even when that's happening, and we're neglecting our own health and wellbeing, our bank balance is being drained, we're losing everything to this person. Even then they're still blaming us, still making us feel bad about ourselves. As though we're not good enough. And we're still trying to be better for them. As crazy as that sounds. And it could get to the point where it's like. I mean, you're literally doing everything for this person. You're buying a home for them to live in. Maybe you bought them a car. You're buying them designer clothes, taking them on trips around the world. And every day, you do everything you can to look flawless for them.  And to do everything you can to please them in every way imaginable.  You're doing whatever they want in bed. You're doing everything you can to make them happy. And what are they doing for you? I mean, maybe they haven't had a haircut for months. Maybe they don't even shave their face. For the women, they may not even shave their legs, their armpits. They just let the hair grow out because they don't even care when they're around you. They feel so comfortable. They don't make an effort to please you anymore. They've gotten used to you. And I was just you doing everything to please them. They don't make an effort to dress up for you. You're just doing that for them. You're driving them around everywhere, taking them on trips.  And if that is a narcissism, what is? If someone thinks that they can be so sloppy, and they can't put themselves together for you. They can't make an effort. They're not invested in anything into the relationship. You're making all of this effort on your appearance. So you can look good for them. To invest in all of your time, all of your money. Everything you've got into this relationship and you're getting nothing back. If that isn't narcissism, what is? You're doing everything. They're doing nothing for you. And yet they keep you on this hamster wheel, where you're running endlessly in an effort to please them, to make them happy. To the point where you never stop to look at everything you've done for them. And how they've done nothing for you in return. I mean, at some point, you've got to stop and see that. You really need to start and look at yourself in the mirror. See what an incredible person you are. I mean, seriously, many of you, you don't even realize it. You're so much greater than them. I'm not talking about shallow, superficial things. I mean, yeah, that can be the case sometimes. But it's not always about your physical appearance or how much money you make.  Because if you're in a relationship with someone, you love them, you care about them, you're going to want to make an effort. If you have empathy, you want them to be satisfied. You don't want to see them miserable. You don't want to see them down. You don't want to leave them feeling like they're missing something. I mean, as empaths, that's what we're like. We want to be the best people that we can be so that we can give the best of ourselves to someone. But no, the narcissist, they look at it like, oh, you're trying to be better than me. Oh, you're trying to make me feel bad about myself. Like, I'm not good enough.  Also, now it's a competition. That's how the narcissist is to see in it. But actually, it's like, it was never like that at all. We wanted to be the best people that we could be for them. That's why we wanted to do that. To make them happy. But they look at it like it's a competition. Now they've got to outdo us or they've got to tear us down. So it looks like they're better. When it's like, can't you even see all these things that I'm doing? I'm doing it for you anyway.  To make you proud of me. But it's like it just makes them insecure. It just makes them hate you even more.  How crazy is that? It's like you're trying to be this person for them. You're trying to make them happy because it's like nothing you do is good enough. So you keep trying to be better. And then they just keep trying to tear you down because they're feeling insecure. They're seeing it as a competition. And as though you're their opponent. And it's like, no, I thought we were a team. I thought we were working together. And yet you're not putting much effort into this. So I'm going above and beyond to compensate for your shortcomings. Just so I can bring something to this relationship that I thought we had together. But no, now it's like they see you as a threat. I was like, you're against them. Now they've got to tear you down. Because they're never seeing it that way. There is no team. There is no cooperation with the narcissist. There's no winning with them. It's just them and only them. It's all about them. They're not with you. They're just using you for what they can get from you. And even when they are benefitted at your expense, at the same time, they still feel threatened by you. They still envy you because they feel insecure. They feel inferior to you. That's another thing as well. They really put this on themselves when you look at it. It's like, it's what they do. They give you this illusion in the beginning, this false character that's meant to be flawless, perfect, free from fault. The problem is, and you think they would see this.  You're everything I need, everything I've been waiting for. Where do we go from there? Because you're already perfect. How can things get better? Of course, things can only go down. They can only get worse because you've already presented yourself this way. So the longer that you spend around me, your value has to go down, not up. Even if you do make an incredible effort and you do everything that you can, even though, as we know in our success, they never do that anyway. It's just all about presenting an image. So of course, they present this image in the beginning of they can never live up to. And yet we wonder, why don't they want to be around us for too long? Why does it seem that they run from intimacy, love and relationships? It's because they can never live up to that image that they presented to you in the beginning. They present this perfect flawless image right at the start. They can't maintain it over a long period of time because it isn't real. And even if it was real, where do you go from there? Things are supposed to get better over time. They're meant to improve. And if you've already presented yourself in a relationship as this perfect person, you've married someone's ideals, their qualities and virtues and reflected back to them, made them feel like you're everything they could ever want. How are you meant to grow? How are things meant to improve? So that's another problem that they have. And it's why, when you look at it, they're asked to say it's a false character. It's flawed.  Nothing is perfect anyway. But even how they try to present it, it makes no sense. Because how can it be perfect when there's no room for improvement? If something is perfect, it's already complete. By default, that is already flawed. So it's a catch 22. Because what good is that? If something's already complete and there's no room for any progress, even if it actually is complete for real, and it is perfect. But then there's no room for improvement, no room for any progress. You're probably going to get bored of it very quickly. So you see the best way to present yourself in anything is just to be authentic.  Yeah, that might go well in the beginning. But what happens after that? Where do you go from there? Because if you come into something with such high energy and you're giving it everything you've got, they've already seen everything. How can they get better? And that's why it's much better in a relationship, in a work setting, whatever it may be. Give a little bit of yourself at the beginning. There's no need to love bomb to give everything you've got.  Reveal small part of yourself and then you'll have so much more to give as time goes on. And it leaves a bit of mystery as well, because otherwise it's like once you've already told them everything about yourself at the very beginning, they already know you. They feel like they've figured you out. It leaves no mystery. You've already given them everything you've got. So what's the point of them sticking around? If you've already read the ending of a book or watched the ending of a movie, why do you need to see the beginning, the middle? You already know how it ends. You need, you know everything you need to know if you've seen the ending. And that's it. It's not about the goal, the objective, the destination. It's about the journey. It's about what happens along the way. So you see everything that Arsas does, it's actually completely flawed. They're trying to present this image of perfection. It's actually the complete opposite of that, because love bombing someone, giving them everything you've got from the very beginning, leaving nothing left to the imagination, leaving no mystery. And act as though you're already complete. You're everything this person needs right from the beginning. What does that leave for down the line? For any growth, progress or development? So you see, this narcissism itself destructive, it leads them nowhere. Nothing is going to grow out of that. Now we make this mistake ourselves by treating them like a king or a queen or like a celebrity. Even if it's someone who's not an Arsasist, that's still not a good thing to do. Yeah, they seem fun and exciting in the beginning, but you've got to look at it like where do you go from there? If they're this perfect special person right at the start before you even know them, what are they meant to do after that? How can they live up to this image that you have created of them in your mind? They can't, because already from the very beginning that's as good as it gets. Even if they could live up to that after a certain amount of time it would get boring. That's why we should always leave room for progress, development, growth, get to know each other, learning more and more, revealing things as time goes on and not only that, we can never be a complete person ourselves. I don't know like what many coaches and therapists talk about, like it's all about healing, becoming whole and complete within ourselves. That's a nice idea, but I actually disagree with that. We should never feel like we are complete. We should never feel like our healing is done. Some people say six months, one year, whatever it may be, then you heal from an narcissistic abuse. I like to see it as a lifelong journey. It's like going to the gym. You don't go to the gym a few days a week for a few months, maybe a couple of years. You get the body you've always wanted. You reach your desired weight and then you just forget about it. You never go to the gym again. It doesn't work that way because of course what's going to happen, you're going to let yourself go. You're going to return to your previous condition or state so you have to keep it going. You'll never stop.    So we see that for our physical health. Why not see it the same way for our mental and emotional health as well? Why should that stop? Why is it like six months, one year of speaking to a therapist or coach recovering from the traumas and then that's it. We just forget about it for the rest of our lives, of course not. It doesn't work that way and this shouldn't be seen as a tool, as something that's like a hindrance on our lives. It's something that we should enjoy doing, like listening to inspirational music, going out for a walk in nature, meditation, mindfulness. These should be things that we enjoy, things that we look forward to doing and things that we should never want to give up and feel like we've done it enough, we feel better now, we feel healed and then we just forget about it. It should never be like that. It's a lifelong process. It shouldn't just end. So that's my opinion on healing and recovering from narcissistic abuse and managing our physical health, our mental and emotional health. I've heard other therapists and coaches have their own opinions where it's like you just speak to a therapist, a coach for a certain amount of time and then it's done. You don't have to worry about it anymore. Just like people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, they need to be involved with a therapist for life. Their healing never ends, they're never fully healed and anyone else, when never fully healed there's never going to be a day in your life where it's like no matter how much work you do, when you're like oh this is it, I'm 100% healed, I feel whole and complete. I'm done. It's finished. There's never going to be a day like that.  Because it's got to keep going, we've got to keep improving. We don't just stop. And it's not always the case where we're just constantly progressing, we're constantly going up. Of course not. There's going to be things in your life that set you back and when that happens you just pick it back up, you keep it going. Yes, life can be an uphill battle sometimes. It's like one step forward, two steps back. Don't let that demotivate you, you've got to keep it moving. It's not like that. You take one step forward, two steps back.  No, because even then you didn't really take steps back. I mean yeah, you may have lost some time, you may have lost a few years of your life.  You may have lost it all. You might see it as there are. I took a few steps forward, but then I took a thousand steps back. My life is over I'm going to give up. Never see it that way because although it may look like you took a lot of steps back, that's actually an illusion in itself. Because just look at the wisdom, knowledge and experience that you gained along the way. Look at how it strengthened you emotionally.  Now you should have even more motivation to continue because now you're at a much higher level than what you were before. You've built your character to another level. I mean back then you may have had a much weaker character and yet you still manifested so much into your life. So you should be looking at it like if I could do that back then and now I have a much stronger character, I should be able to do so much more. It should be that much easier for me. That's how you've got to look at it but regardless of that it doesn't matter what happens in your life. It doesn't matter how it affects you, how many steps back you take, you keep it moving, you don't stop and you continue gaining that knowledge, wisdom and experience along the way. You continue learning, you continue working on yourself because that's what matters most. It's not about these external things, it's not about superficial stuff, it's the insight that counts. That's what we need to work on more than anything. So that's it, that's the message for today to motivate you because I know many of you. You've been through a lot, you've lost a lot. You may feel like giving up, I get that. Many people before you they felt like giving up as well but they didn't, they kept going. You know there's so many celebrities, athletes, millionaires, billionaires, many of them have been successful in the past. They may have been millionaires, billionaires and then they went from that to being completely broke, homeless with nothing and they took that as a learning experience. They learned something from it and they used that to get back up and become more successful than they were before and what is that in them that got them to do that to where many of us can't do it and of course what sets us apart is that belief. If you think oh I can't do that again, I can't get back to where I was before. That's a limiting belief, it's going to hold you back. You have to see it as though if I can do that once, I can do that again and in fact I can do it even better this time. That's how you've got to see it and many of you know my story. Back in 2017 I was suicidal. I tried to take my own life, I felt like giving up but I didn't, I got back up. I started learning about narcissistic abuse at the beginning of 2018, created my channel in August 2018 and I'm just looking at it now. Over 170,000 subscribers, over 40 million views, TikTok with over 18,000 followers, helped millions of people around the world, traveled the world, had so many experiences. None of this would have happened if I did give up back in 2017 and my life changed so fast. I mean it's like within one year of trying to take my own life everything changed already. I was already making so much money, I was coaching people, I learned so much. Within two years I was already traveling in the world doing things I thought I would never be able to do to experience and it can be that way for you. Things can only go up, they can only get better if you believe that they can. The one thing holding you back is your belief. Never forget that and stop overvaluing people above yourself.  Yes people can hold us back sometimes but sometimes we can hold ourselves back. It comes down to that belief. Many people give up and it's like that's such a loss of potential. Who knows what they could have been if they didn't just throw in the towel. If they kept going that's why you should never stop. Never give up on yourself. Yes other people they may give up on you but you never give up on yourself because if you do that then what have you got? If you give up on yourself how can you expect anyone else to be there for you? Value yourself stop putting people above you. Stop worshipping these narcissists seeing them as so much greater than what they really are. Start looking at what they're actually doing for you and reminding yourself of everything you've done for them and see how that compares. All right so I hope this message helps someone out there. I see we've got 136 live viewers. If you found it helpful please give it a thumbs up down below. It helps the YouTube algorithm to get this message out there to other survivors who will see it and benefit from it as well. Let me know your thoughts in the comment section. Hit the subscribe button and click all notifications so that you will be notified when I upload a video in the future. If you'd like to book a one-on-coaching session with me go to my website it is NarcSurvivor.co.uk and also you can follow me on Instagram it is NarcSurvivor YouTube. Thank you all for joining me on another NarcSurvivor live video and as always I look forward to talking with you in another one very soon.