Eight tails of hot. Who is on this? Who's this random black guy? Who's the corn?  It's great The final days of founding a My god, dr. Chuck tingle Calls himself a doctor a pound a day keeps the butt, okay Do you want to hear some of the titles here some of the titles if I may read them? Right, so he's got Pounded in the but by my own but so you get to pay his own buttocks. That's one of them.  See that's at least it's legal. Yeah.   Ah, yes, and glazed by the gay living doughnuts I have to I like this like really dark looking one the complete guide to the voice And it's got like the Illuminati symbol on it. Looks like he lost his mind at some point very recently Well, nothing I have might have shown a mind to lose but What am I like rags?  So he's this artistic gay Erotica right and he writes all these books where it's pounded in the butt by something something sentient and something crazy He also has a thing for dinosaurs as well.   Yeah, it's all good I put a suitable image on the screen for what you guys are describing. Thank you rags courtesy of rags What you that what you just sent I put it on screen just so that people can understand the context of what we're just I really like I've got breakfast on the brain Mm-hmm Uh-huh, cuz it's the daily for you guys, right? British people is late. Oh, we breakfast on the brain. No, I just got breakfast on the brain Someone said when I clicked on the stream notification.  I mean, that's beautiful This is how it works. Um, it's reading this one.  I've actually got access to some of that. Do you want me to read some of this? What the actual thing what would you like me to read it stargazing which one?  Give us a paragraph. See what we'll see what's going on in this thing.   I say I bet we can get a read on a hot gay doughnut bar It's not long before we find a local coffee shop with a mysterious round symbol stuck inconspicuously On the outer window a signal to those of us who know what to look for Our group heads inside trying to act as casual as possible The man helping us is young and fun a surfer dude who surprisingly handsome for being covered in tattoos with more piercings than I can count His shop is only a small walk at the main drag of souvenir stands and bong boutiques that line the graffiti covered Covered uh covered beach boardwalk What would you like the handsome young guy asks the dark roast is fresh Actually, I'm not really in the mood for coffee. I tell him my heart beating hard within my chest How about a doughnut Oh, yeah, we've got those the man says nodding apple fritter maple bar I hesitate for a moment not quite sure how to go about this Do you have anything a little gayer The man freezes for a moment then glances around to make sure our small group of friends are the only people in the store The coast is clear, but he still seemed skeptical of me But why why would you think we had living gay doughnuts here the man? Why indeed sir, did you want me to continue? I mean fuck, uh, we've got so many things to get through. I don't know the so here's the thing I don't I'm worried about spoilers at this point Well, I've actually got the bit where he does actually it's it's skipped a bit because of this is an amazon inside Look, but I've got to the bit where it's the saucy bit. So it's up to you Put it. Oh, we should we should leave that to the end. Yeah, put a put a thing on it And uh, we'll just get through our selection of tisms and then we'll try and bring it in at the end to finish off because Fuck, we'll we'll probably have an hour intro on this one now.  We're still going. Yes. The party continues Uh, our guest today. I gotta introduce him wolf. I know you want to speak all the time over everyone. It's disgusting But I gotta get I know it's terrible. I'm sorry. I'm sorry Gay themes Voxys productions a man who who is not a man at all.  Is this some kind of Turn not to break the fourth wall.  Yeah, it was there like a science experiment gone wrong or was it just, you know, Well, it's it's up for interpretation. Did you fall in radioactive stuff and just did things?  Wonderful. Um How has it been on youtube for those five years fun horrifying one of those two both hard work hard work Um, but well worth it got some lovely lovely fans and I get to meet some very interesting people like here I am on on this podcast surrounded by furries and a guy in a gas mark It's like being in a german fetish club. Yeah, that's wonderful. Actually not too far away from the truth Anyway, so, you know, we're happy to have you on board. So we're gonna be Doing some really weird things today. Uh, you've seen the salad fingers video, right? I'm sure you're a kind of person that would have seen that What are you implying that I'm sort of degenerate freak? No, it's British. That's why of course the salad fingers is a very upstanding gentleman. Wolf rags. Have you guys seen that new I'm aware of I'm aware of I saw I saw some of it And yeah, it's it's just an ultimate test of how much can you take before you stop watching it because it's just I haven't watched Well, I watched the whole thing it's it's like disgusting for the sake of disgusting But there's loads of themes with salad fingers undeniable themes. I liked one of the top comments on the video was like, um We've known him for so long. I'm like invested in the In in salad fingers. I get people want good things to happen to him.  Oh man. I'll clearly I'm so glad that um We have fans in high places. Yep 100 percent. I was I was impressed. Um How does one milk a spider?  I mean jay's not here. He's our resident milker Well, he's in the chat. You can ask him and I'll keep an eye out for his response. Jay. How do you milk a spider?  How could you hate it? I did check the comments in the last video or like talking about how you don't like resident evil 2 It's fine. I guess Speaking of which I fully approve of my android counterpart I think I should have him on more often since he's apparently better at gaming than you guys God yeah, he came close to annihilating all three of us Rags beaten though. It's all good. I did But he cheated because he made the game go on too long Because I got all I got all the pain. He killed chungus a couple times. He did actually yeah Like straight up execution style hit.   This is the terminus.  He's like you're next Oh, yeah, he looked at the screen when he did that but it was vengeance for wolf Wolf did you build the bar or was it something like god gave you or whatever? He was like, here you go Look, I can't just give away my secrets to how I made wolfbot 2000 2000, huh? There you go guys. That's a cool. The 1000 series wasn't exactly good. Oh Um, yeah, there's a there's a couple people who are concerned that efab gaming is going to replace normal efabs like no No, no, no, it'll never like be that we stop Looking at videos and only play games Isn't it?  I mean, I happen to think the cloning marines Playthrough was like really good This is just so much that that's uh hilarious. I believe someone's made a compilation Do you remember the name of the channel birdsy lope with the sun? There you go Well, he makes a lot of efab compilations You'll be able to see all the best moments from it if you don't want to watch the um entire thing He missed some good moments though But oh well, it's fair enough, uh the Yeah, so the point will be like there's a couple of ideas like a lot of people like oh do um Do jack box games obviously cards against humanity definitely came up. Um It was the left for dead one. It's always going to be an idea And then we'll probably just be looking for co-op games that are really bad or really good And we can do some form of a challenge on it or just party games or anything But it's not going to be This this is not like a scheduled like we do it once per month or anything even though Who knows we shall see but um, it's just We've been talking on a great british podcast and yeah, we might do left for dead. So if you guys Want to do Four side left for dead Our guys versus your guys um Up to you Rags doesn't like the versus It's really it's really it's really awful Would you play it just for the meme though rags the efab versus the great british podcast I mean if you want yeah, all right The losers have to make uh videos If we run run at the same time Oh, because it's just we get destroyed. That's not necessarily true But what we could do is both both podcasts try and complete no mercy on veteran. We race it Yeah, let me see what what games have um eight players. Let's see. Let me see one of the four. Um I'm sure there's It can't be too like twitchy based because of the ping between the across the ocean But we could I mean, I'm sure there's ones out there that we can definitely we'll be able to find something Yeah, like Chinese checkers battle royale I'm curious how even we would do like the crossover of the the seven man podcast No, six man podcast if if efabs all about responding to videos and you guys are all about discussing things. How does that even happen?  So bring it on beautiful. It'll happen one day Impressive xcom. Some people just think minecraft Fallout 76 is eight player co-op. Let's do it It's like genuinely good. Oh, yeah But with the pain doesn't will cause some issues doesn't replace tight fall three You know the meme of how every time you look back at tlj.  It makes no sense at all because uh She's shooting at a 90 degree angle with the turret above here and the window facing outwards even though the falcon itself is just flying Straight down and it's weird because tfa got this right The tlj did dry and you can't even get the shape of the millennium falcon right And there's six movies about it And come on. Come on. Come on. Ryan has done some good. He you know mola wouldn't be where he is without ryan johnson A lot of youtubers as a citizen mola ryan johnson is a job creator. Yes And he's also given what but he's still fucked up because he created jobs where people are ripping on him There's someone in the chat called quitting was a mistake Dude, you need to see this. I just saw it on twitter. I don't know if I should put this on screen or not Oh Why do you have this You you have to be up on the memes to be able to know the relevance. I'm sorry. I know who these Uh, I just don't want to see them talk to us It's like oh god. I can't believe I'm saying that jared actually looks Okay, if we have to suffer then the chat has to suffer to I've put it on brother They can see they can see God damn Anti viagra right there Um, but yeah, I think I'm I'm happy for us to jump into the first of the uh, we got Before memes There's more than that that exists and I know that there's people who are like, please watch this one more than four We're we're gonna get to them. We're gonna get where's my watch together Oh my god, is that what he looks like without a shirt? Jesus christ You guys Does he not to look it does jared not look like really good and jared actually does look really good there Like jared. Oh my god. I can't believe he looks like he actually looks Not awful like he reasonable Yeah, I mean, what who would you rather be looking up at eric or jared?  I think I'd rather be looking down the barrel of a gun We'll be looking down a barrel all right, but done the guns work on you know puppets. I don't know Oh, I've seen this All right, so this is our first meme of the day. It's from little potato. Hold up. Hold up I gotta click the link for some reason. I Very good to you guys, isn't he's always Potato is a good boy. He I mean look at the detail already the fact that the Outer end is focused in the film So he's he's unfocused wolf's face because that would that would be how it would be if he was in the film He loves way too much effort into this and it's kind of scary Like it's genuinely terrifying like the quality of some of these memes. Do you think he has like a little shrine Dedicated to your I don't know if I want to know that I think I want to shrine me daddy. I think somebody had this prepared Cut off little bits of pubic hair and stick them on the altar What why not right? Uh, so I I you guys go to see this No, no, no, I just go send this on twitter. I think they prepaid it for this Oh my god, that's amazing Is that who made this I don't well, this is the thing it came from big gel twitter. Is that supposed to be jj big? So i'm pretty sure right? Yeah, that's gotta be jj. The gloss is awful Oh my god In fairness, we were the ones that told people to do or at least I was the one that told people to do it So I guess it's kind of my fault the second you theorize that you're like this has to be done It's important Well, I mainly did it just because I really wanted j to have to live with this for the rest of his life I want it to haunt him later on like when he's 70. He'll like think back to jj pinks jj pinks will fly.  Uh, he was he did a um Like a video on shawnes video on uh star was I don't know if any of you guys saw that who j Yeah, he he he called it how not to defend tlj and um He just tackled a few shawnes arguments and one of the comments in the video was um Uh, I don't like how much time j is spent on efab.  Yeah, I heard about that. Um, wait, it was on my desk.  There was a comment that I saw Where the this guy was saying, oh, you shouldn't hang around with those those guys.   Oh I can't wait for this sequel. No That's really good. Um, I that's one of my favorites Oh, yeah, it's a good one. It's a really good one I'm starting to wonder when people are gonna start like looking back and finding all the choice quotes they can actually use because uh It seems like everybody has to use that. It's like everybody uses the same dog bark as well Yeah, I've never even made that sound whoever did that first like they set the trend What racks is bark? What am I looking at?  No, I saw this I saw this one. Oh, I've seen why it's referencing. Yeah. Um, yeah, I got it Yeah, just for context This is this is a creature that can't be killed in the in the season, but he's from medieval times. He's brought forward and uh The the funny thing is that they're like our team of heroes is like wait. What an rpg work on him No weapon forge can stop me That was then Now Mahler's the woman Jared's face Jared's almost at a thousand subs I think Yeah, he joined my discord and left it again Um, someone asked him for audio files for the meme that they were making they wanted to say certain things And he declined and he said he doesn't want his whole content to be related to e-fap anymore Guys, he's worried he'll become too famous. It'll go right to the bed. He's just being very modest very hungry But before you before you start this next one Everyone Jared is seven subscribers away from a thousand get him to a thousand right now If you're not subscribed to him just type in jared genesis I'm gonna be looking at his social blade And then we're gonna party for him my goodness. What will he do when he gets to a thousand? I'm afraid to know because we already seen what he done. He might detonate the channel Oh, don't do that jared But please get him to seven seven more guys. Oh six more Just six more guys. Come on. You can do it wolf is like needs this Oh my god, he said a thousand thirty. Whoa, okay. Whoa Yeah, jared It's like There you go. So now we have to celebrate. Good god. Good job jared. Oh my god a thousand seventy now He has to go jared. Yeah Four days ago or three days ago. He made a video called boogie 2988 failed his 30 day diet Okay, he's almost at 1100 now, so May maybe stop maybe stop people. No. No. No. No. No. No. Don't stop. Don't stop I want to see what he makes Because this is gonna blow his mind. He's gonna detonate the channel if you keep going. No, don't do that. It's what he does Jared keep it Keep it So, um keep it the next one on the docket if you will is uh, this one's like really testy for a copyright It's actually really careful with it because the guy had trouble actually getting it up But this is from creamy sheev actually Oh, um, oh, sorry the last one.     What am I boss just said that's not milk you get him from the rhino Listen, listen, it's tradition. Okay Everyone knows that in Wakanda every Friday you drink the rhino's calm. It's just makes sense. All right It's a decision I love these animations a lot.  It is gonna be scary has shown me They've only got as far as making me so far. They're making a 3d efap with 3d models of all of us Holy mother god, these people have too much to show us.  Oh dear future generations can enjoy him. So yeah, that's That's it for memes. Which means we're pretty much done with the intro and look at that 30 minutes That's it's only slightly worse. That's really one of the fastest intros ever through What was the longest like an hour 10 minutes or something? It was something like that You just get going and going and going. Who's my fault? But yes, uh more memes next time. I'm sure Thank you all so much for your um The passionate takes on what is essentially the subtext of efap, you know, what is actually happening Like that's what all those representations are So first up If you guys all remember we we talked about a video from Joseph Anderson called a subjectivity is implied which is Probably one of the most backward implications for a video ever like the idea that it's like by the way I don't have to tell you about this thing and then you proceed to tell everyone about it It seems kind of kind of productive But it was it had other issues in the video we covered it And snowman gaming is another channel who decided that it was probably worth doubling down for joe Um, and we're just gonna check out his perspective, you know, I don't know if any of you've seen videos from him I've only seen a couple and they just like they remind me a lot of mark brown where um Typically not a lot is said uh just like Declarative stuff that's that's relatively well, I mean if he's trying to be mark brown, of course not a lot's gonna be said You just want everyone to be long. That's it, isn't it? Um, yes Well, length does matter So what about is short if if tiny man bad too, is it short man good? Is that the That way we need to go I gotta figure out this formula I don't want to make any declarative statements yet. Mm-hmm, but it might be in the running All right, uh, so yeah, this is the first time we've ever seen one of his videos So, you know, it could be great. Um, I've seen I saw this when it came out and I've mostly forgotten what's in it now So this all will be relatively candid. Uh, I believe voxels has checked it out rags and wolf have not I think that's Yeah, they're right. Okay.  The no the art. I'm the art's fine. The music is awful Uh, yeah, I probably wouldn't go with that personally, but I mean just don't do intros people just don't do it Hey, man, I had an intro my tfa series. So what's that about you hate intros now? Yes, the least your intros have like substance to it This is just like let's have a snowman with this like really generic 2d art style And then it says snowman gaming Yeah I mean You know, it's it is what it is. Are we right? You know, it is what it is. Also snowman milk. That didn't take long This is a snowman I don't like your face I was gonna say, you know beginning a video with a sigh. It's like a trope He doesn't do it, but the uh, the whole I really hate trump You're the one with a go. I didn't want to have to make this video That's like my favorite This is like, oh, I didn't want to make this video I did that too Don't like the old davidio Well, you know, we all we also we all don't know it's a trope until it was shown. It's a trope. So it's okay He was a trope well before that.  No, no, I live it every day. Oh In my room Yeah, so the best we can do is take his word for uh, what he's saying right now, because I don't know Aesthetics aesthetics, isn't it aesthetics? There's too many gemstones on the aesthetics. Well, it's that it's fine. That's uh, Jim stillin says Aesthetics, I think There's a lot of different people pronouncing it to me. I I say aesthetics Well, you know, it would almost be implied because it's a th and it makes a th sound Wait, the th makes a th sound.  I'm being ecstatic. I like aesthetics. I think that's what I Think that's what Jim stilling says.  Unfortunately it was Aesthetic, that's what he said. Yeah, I think that's what Jim stillin says too weird, but I don't know aesthetic flair Unfortunately, it was as I had feared and after sinking 12 hours into it, which I feel was a generous amount of time I quit playing because I was not enjoying most aspects of the game Of course, there were things I liked the combat and lead up toward the first major boss battle was a really exciting Palace and gearing up to confront that jerk camoshita, but immediately after I hear that jerk He's got to say very uh, there's like a line.  That meaty bow.  Oh, um Oh my goodness.  Ah, I love the feeling of noodles sliding down my throat That dripping over my face Read my dad is You chuck tingle right this man. I think I might actually go buy this game now said to your noodles I'll never use into my room Um, yeah, uh, because I know where he's going with this But you know like the idea of stakes in uh in a storyline.   Well, no, listen is like what's the difference between spaghetti? Spaghetti sauce those are both tomato sauces fine. That's fine with me, but you don't put tomato sauce on a steak What if someone did What were you to do then rags? Would you explode first off? I mean they already got it well done. So it's ruined already nothing Putting on top of it. It's going to make it good Answer my question. You can make it worse though Answer the question like even if you ruin it you could still make it worse Like you could poop on it You know rags is not wrong on this and uh, I I'd rather eat a well steak well done steak without Then one that had poop on it I wouldn't even even if someone scraped the poop off as as vox is just posted right Eat all of those slices of pizza or Have the well done steak with ketchup What would you I would have a well done steak with ketchup Instead of oh wait eat the pizza that no i'll take the well done steak pineapple Does not belong on pizza that is Image I posted was was pizza on a giant pineapple, but there's pineapple on the pizza as well Is I thought it was yeah, no, no, that's not that's not relevant cheese. Well, why is it cheese? It's a four cheese pizza, but why does the Why is the cheese look what are the way wait? What are the four cheeses? Is does that matter when there's that much pineapple? Yes, it does matter It doesn't matter cheeses are wildly different when there's that much pineapple really to cheddar to american to wensley dale to gorgonzola to gouda This can destroy a pizza as well Yeah, but it's already not a pizza It's like it's just I don't know man the difference in cheese just isn't going to change much when there's that much pineapple All right Ifap asking the important questions So, uh, you'd take the well done steak, huh? I just wanted to make sure about that because pineapple on pizza is the biggest sin In food, I believe right currently now you can get you can get grapes you can get grapes on pizza I would take that over pineapple personally. Why would you put grapes on pizza?  Well people will people put olives on pizza and a grape is like a Weird olive, right? No, it's not olives are not the same as grapes. I didn't say they were the same I said that a grape is like a weird olive. You can't just no, it's not a weird A grape is absolutely a weird olive A grape is not the same as an olive.  I would rather take a no, you can't how Guys, take this outside. How can you compare them? How can you one's like a grape is like a weird olive? Say Lola, how do you need to qualify this? How is the grape a weird olive beyond like, you know, how you have tomatoes, right?  It's like a weird cherry. Oh my god. Okay Okay, I just going to concede this because you have the worst arguments imaginable I haven't even made an argument yet. I know all you keep saying is it's just a weird grape or it's a weird tomato Yeah, I'm not wrong. Apparently snowman is in chat. Someone said that anyway snowman. I need you to understand that a grape Legitimate question and this relates to your video completely. What would you rather have a well done steak with tomato ketchup on top of it or Um a pineapple pizza if you had to choose between them You had no choice gun to your head The consensus right now is going for the steak and I think I'd probably agree with that You see because weird is like abnormal, right?  It would be the first time It is uncanny and otherworldly one. Is there anybody who would pick the pineapple pizza? I would oh my god. Can't you pick the pineapple off the pizza? Would that be so bad?  It's it's dried out. You don't have to worry about the juices. Have you ever eaten a grilled salad? Oh, wait grilled salad. I used to work. I used to work in a restaurant and We would have it's one of those high-end steakhouse schmoozy places and one of the things that we offered for lunch was um Her Caesar salad was grilled Why would you do that because Because it's a weird grape I don't food is weird. People are weird. Uh, someone make a video about how food is implied We're just saying that don't put pineapple on pizza.  Well, it's six minutes left And I think the first third of it is him going over persona So we'll be able to get through that. We just went on like a 10 minute rant about great Well, if you just if you would just accept that a cherry tomato is like a weird cherry I don't know what a cherry tomato is. So I can't exactly make a judgment on though. Just google cherry That implies that I would have to be in my fingers and I really care to give You know exactly what a cherry tomato is. You just don't know. It's called a cherry tomato Okay, fine. I'm looking up a cherry tomato and while you do that they put on We're gonna go ahead and can Oh, that's what they are Yeah, they're just little they're like weird cherries Well, why didn't you just call them little tomatoes? I would have immediately known because their name is literally cherry Okay, well when I didn't say when I said that I didn't know what you were talking about all you just had to say was well They're little tomatoes.  They're midget tomatoes. They grow from a vine Right, they go from a viney sort of thing a lot of things grow from vines rags. Exactly That doesn't mean that they're all the same They're not all the same. They're different Well, you can't just say they're weird grapes when they're really just little tomatoes cherry tomato is also known as grape tomatoes No, the life hero. Yeah, it's a classic Okay, yeah, so we all good We'll good. I mean, I've always said great wolf. Apparently he's the one here with the problem So, uh, you know, how about that uh stone man gaming video? He's right here. Let's give him Let's give him a chance to actually listen to him. All right, sorry Rags is a retard That larger than life hero stuff and focus on my schoolwork and take my friends out for a bite to eat Of course, this was a part of the game already But going from this to pollen warnings and getting a part-time job was very anti-climactic on top of this everything happens so slowly Dialogue seems to drag on and on with meaningless filler and they kept adding in new mechanics tens of hours into the game So I decided couldn't that be a good time? I have a tail.  So I don't know really what the context is obvious But I mean I I have played I mean I have played games where they introduced some new mechanic like randomly toward the very end of the game And it was like, well, this would have been great if you introduced it like at the very beginning where it was useful, but I mean it can't throw off the the the pace It's like even ori you get like a mechanic pretty late some of the I'm a lost one. Well, yeah, but the whole the whole game is um, based on Your leveling system. So I guess I guess I'm suggesting it's like it could be a good and a bad thing Depending on the context to hang up my mask I thought about how in the world I could form my experience into a video drag down all the aspects I didn't like about it maybe make a scalding bad game design But then you know, you could just like make a list And you'd be like these are things I didn't like and you'd write them down And they like use things I did like and you write those down And then you make a review and you talk about the things you like you did like I think I I feel like this could have been like a whole video on its own like I think he's he's using it as an example of What what's gonna happen, right? So like if he had made this video theoretically How people may or may not respond to it and then that's where the title of the video is gonna come in All the aspects I did listen first off I don't I don't think that this is a slight tangent Bear with me though.  Yeah, my cat does own me like all right The first chunk here is my thoughts on persona, but it goes into a differently a totally different Thought tied to it right here.  How is that not a cat? I don't know man. This seems like a crazy universe play it play it and pause on the cat How is that not a cat? Is it like some sort of like a like a that's a chibi cat. It's an animal cat Yeah, that's what they it's clearly a cat Yeah, it's still cat. It's just drawn in like a chibi art style. Is it chibi or chibi? I don't know. I don't speak Japanese I don't either but Voxes you speak Japanese go Hentai Me love you long time I Maybe make a scalding bad game design, but I realized I couldn't make that video I couldn't objectively find anything wrong or bad about persona five I don't know.  It's I mean I tried playing it. It's like I see like a good game in here But I just can't get into it. I've tried it so many times, but with the conclusion then be that it is actually pretty good I just don't like it. Oh, yeah, I mean I would say from like the five or six hours I played of it that it is a good game. It's just not really my thing So like really you couldn't find anything objectively bad about it or any Apparently anything wrong or bad about persona five. It just wasn't objectively that hamburger is way too big There's no way he could eat that there you go You just go get rags to play it. He'll find Look at the guys staring at him.  Yeah, they're like, I don't understand This isn't this isn't right. Something is right in the bag across from him Oh, god, don't let the cat out of the bag. Why did he kidnap the cat and take it to a burger place? Look at the dialogue. I'm rooting for you and remember nobody think any I I think maybe the cat is like A figment of his imagination.  Make the dude.  I want to know the price of that That's just a typical american burger. I don't know. I don't see anything strange Standard That's a small in america. That looks like it's bigger than his stomach That's just a five guys Our cousins across the pond. They're so idiom to us. We need to we need to address something else Which is these table designs notice how the tables kind of dip in a little bit on their flat surfaces So how do you push them together without creating a gap in between them? I guess you Oh, that's gonna bother me. That's gonna It won't be on screen for long guys. It'll be fine. Why'd you have to point that out?  Maybe maybe they're at fud ruckers. Oh, man. I haven't said there No, it's supposed to represent that they're not important people So their features are ill-defined because he's not really focusing on them to him These other people are just like a backdrop to the universe that he lives in Maybe maybe or maybe they're they're blind to the events of the the rape of nang king Maybe it's very political Look how he has the shopping In his hand it clearly is some sort of a commentary on the commercialization of Japanese culture. Oh, yes It's the westernization with things like that the game is pretty much going into a a 7 7 7 A symbol of capitalism and commercialization. Yes. I see what you mean 7 7 7 is the number of the beast Plus one that's the neighbor of the beast. It's the no, it's actually plus 111 Yeah, well, that's your opinion. Yeah, yeah 111. I don't know what math is But Seven's a lucky number He's going into a place that clearly symbolizes luck and his Is desire for personal fortune and happiness and so he's he's blowing by the things that slow other people down I Still choose to interpret this as an unofficial sequel the pants I think maybe we've been looking too far into it and that we're only supposed to listen to what's being said But I don't know and that's post modernism in a nutshell. There we go. I realized All right, this is a video for god. I couldn't objectively find anything wrong or bad about persona 5 It just wasn't a game for me and that's okay In fact, this happens all the time. Doesn't all right. All right. Hold up Hold up. If you have to travel if you have to run down an alleyway to get to a convenience store That's not a convenience store. That's an inconvenient store Yeah, but they'll call themselves a convenience store just to be asked people Well, that's just like them, isn't it? It is just like that. We should sue them We should get an e-fap. When you say them you you have three. You have three parentheses on each end, right? When you say I don't even know what that means. I don't even know what that means Oh, you know what that means. No, you know what that means. You know about the the glorious them I the Asians No them the sweetest them cats No, we've definitely discussed cats.  Oh great. Look at the chat George Soros is gonna personally hunt you down So anyway Here is a video in here. I believe I'm gonna I'm gonna roll it right back. Let's let's see how far we could get before something aesthetically is uh Wrong or bad about persona five. It just wasn't a game for me and that's okay In fact, this happens all the time, doesn't it? We all probably have a game that we've heard so much about but found we didn't enjoy it when we played it ourselves Is there anything wrong with us for not liking such widely praised titles? Of course I guess he's trying to set the framing. I don't think anybody would disagree with that ever, but I mean What the problem is is like you don't have to Uh like it, but I mean I wouldn't make a video on near because I know I don't like the game But I can't really come up with an argument from objectivity about why I don't like the game Like is there any actually is there actually any human being in the universe who's like no, it's not okay to not like a game Like like well, he just said hopefully that's not controversial. It's like, yeah, I don't like anybody on the planet I would say like it's not okay to not like something that's liked. Yeah, like why spend A third of your video talking about it It's the setup you gotta wait for the the payoff Your opinion is valid Then why does it seem like there's such a rise in conflict when it comes to games discussion? Our culture seems to be increasingly focused on finding hot takes and ripping them apart limb from limb Often this is under the guise of joking with friends or being sarcastic. Oh god. Does that account for us? Okay Man, I'm getting I'm getting some totaled vibes from limb often This is under the guise of joking with friends or being sarcastic But I think it stems from a little kernel of truth and how we really feel And this is especially true when the original thought is negative in tone If I posted on twitter that I thought persona 5 was a terrible game No doubt I'd get multiple replies saying how wrong I was Which is correct the poster or the replies? Well, neither, right? Or maybe both depending on how you look at Well, when you say it Depends on what you mean by terrible I guess Yeah, and then what you've got to support that argument Yeah, I mean if you don't put up a support for that argument Then obviously people are going to disagree with you with a such a widely liked game like that Wait a second. What is there a point to put more than one heater in a barn? I thought one heater would do the trick.  I thought I thought it only took one heater to a heater. I don't know maybe This guy's just made of money. He's flexing. I would have been more concerned about the howling of this outside of the uh Oh, I'm just seeing a blue screen right now. I don't even These people are just stating their opinion though probably not in a productive way There's a difference between personal taste and fact. This is common sense stuff But the real problem comes when a content creator makes a video on the topic You see something weird happens when someone publishes a piece of I bet this guy has like 50 funko pops.  He's saying Wait, hang on. He's making a point about when you make it a video versus expressing an opinion I guess creator makes a video on the topic You see something weird happens when someone publishes a piece of media instead of being viewed as any other Discussion in which people have differing views. There's an air of authority that's perceived when watching a video And it's assumed that the creator thinks their opinion is the one and only true thought So I see why he's going with it benefit of the doubt He's saying that people tend to look at a video as a much more declarative statement that's Like not something you can argue with almost like if I say Tlg is so bad then some guy out there is like it's not though that video should be taken down because it's wrong It's incorrect versus me posting on discord Tlg is so bad.  So who cares? Like the video stands as some form of uh If if the video is up it must have meant meant it's true. I don't know No, I think it's just a matter of the fact that it's instead of you just talking with one two or a couple people In real life and you're doing things It's up on the internet broadcast to thousands and thousands and thousands of people and everyone is able to give their feedback to it constantly And it's not even face-to-face.  Let's all talk about that because clearly he said this for a reason blah blah blah I'm curious where he's going. Yeah. Yeah, we'll have to see where this is going People didn't like my video I think he's going with it's not even that incredibly disliked from that bar. Yeah, it's better than tonald It's a better result. I'm curious. Maybe we should put this on um On a future refab this this particular video. See what it's like I'm curious. Oh, well, you know Also, you're a terrible person for not using dark things In fairness, I only just started using it because I um, I liked the old Well, the problem was you had to upgrade to the newer youtube. I kept um Uh, not choosing that because I like the old one. Um to the point. We have to change it in the Whatever is called source view or whatever. You have to like uncheck a thing um But uh Yeah, sorry, I just want to one bad game. I'm curious. What are you talking about in that video now? I wish google had a dark theme Wish everything had a dark theme Every should think should have a dark theme once I found out that microsoft word had a dark theme That's all I've used should be a human right Have a dark thing on theme on file explorer. Don't worry. It's no man gaming. We'll get there. This is e-fap style We uh, we go through a piece by piece. It is every frame of pause It's an air of authority that's perceived when watching a video and it's assumed that the creator thinks their opinion is the one and only Not only is this ridiculous, but it drastically limits the amount of discussion that can take place because authority is almost irrelevant on youtube as in You it's usually arguments as in you never catch somebody being like, um Okay, I I've already caught myself because I'm like you do catch people doing this But they're not right when they do it if someone says something like I've studied film for 10 years So I'm right when I say that x y t yeah, like Arguing from authority is never gonna work and then you'd be like so when is authority relevant? And I'd be like uh people can sometimes say it to be like this is why I know the thing But other than that I would say that the biggest thing is that it helps to try and convince people that what you're saying is right No Is yeah, yeah Like are you gonna call upon some sort of academic?  Like I've never actually claimed any authority. So and then on the other other hand when I was having a twitter argument with mother's basement um They at one point did did the meme where they were like Uh, I used to think like you but you know, then I improved or then I got better or then I evolved as as we all knowingly love it What? And I that's really condescending.  And he was like I've been working on Media now for like over five years and I was just like okay You could still be wrong. But media is a really broad term. I mean if you post on facebook all day technically the media survey even if he was uh You know like being Specific like if he was like I have worked on this game personally therefore You saying the hitboxes are not in line with the models is wrong. I'd be like that's not an argument Because you worked on it. Yeah, that'd still be fallacious too In fact it would highlight that he's got a bias that we'd have to account for That he can't really be trusted on the analysis. So what I'm suggesting is I don't know that anybody's ever brought up Authority and media analysis on youtube in order to make their argument better because it's It's fallacious at the core, right? Yeah, I mean the only time when you could pull it off is if Whatever you're talking about is subjective and it depends On what you say like you specifically and even then you can't tell for sure because someone could be lying Anyway, we're we're getting close to when this video delves into where we're not going to agree Can take place because instead of being inherently subjective it boils down to a right or wrong mentality Often I'll see comments of people that got hung up on one little detail of a video because they didn't You didn't exactly make it very clear that it was a joke to be fair And you put that joke in a section that already bashed old games and said they suck which already would have made people defensive Joke is definitely a bad idea man. I'm sorry Um The fact that you call bright flicker in 8-bit era glitches proves you have no idea of the physical limitations of the hardware Running these games and how limitations impacted every facet of the game design Um, so right gotta gotta gotta pull out the police badge here So if you're claiming there's like sometimes people will take something like this and say like the whole video is bad I'd be like, yeah, that's bad. That shouldn't happen. However, that's not what the comments says Um It does say you have no idea about the physical limitations of the hardware and his his argument for that is that you Apparently don't know the difference between a sprite flicker and an 8-bit era glitch, which I wouldn't know either But they're not saying your whole video is worthless as far as I can tell from that comment Maybe one thing Yeah, which Uh, obviously that comment isn't proof, but I I don't know if that's true if it is true Yeah, but if if somebody votes up a video and likes it because of one part despite the rest That's fine. But if somebody downvotes a video and dislikes it because of one point despite the rest, that's bad They didn't agree and this one was Just whether or not something was overtly a joke or not Joke was definitely bad idea. I mean, it's interesting that it's got 81 upvotes. Apparently a couple people did feel This was relevant, but I don't know. It's complicated when it comes to jokes Instead of taking the entire piece as a whole and weighing the pros and cons or worse, I'll Wait taking the entire piece as a whole and then weighing the pros and cons wouldn't that Wouldn't weighing the pros and cons pros and cons It wouldn't it be what has more value to you? Is the whole missing the forest for the trees thing that a lot of people are Accused of evap and I'm always curious to explore what they mean or what they think they mean by that Because a video is comprised of statements. So analyze the statements and you've analyzed the video They're like, nope, you've missed the overall point. That's usually what they say But uh a good point poorly presented is a Bad video Which well, we'll see we'll see it's I think it's relatively fine so far, but I'm pretty sure my contention was later on And I you're right. It's a benign example in comparison to many I've gone I was gonna say if I was gonna point out that people have said my videos and they have they've taken like one error In a ds2 video and said like this this is this is clear evidence that the series is terrible All they said terrible the my I could easily get them right now I just have to search keywords But the fact that I got the date wrong at the beginning of my black panther video people have said like if you can't get the date Right, I'm not watching the rest that I'm like, all right All right Fair enough, you know see one saying that I really need to quit presenting Stop presenting your opinions as facts nest games are not poorly designed because they're punishing Lives are not artificial difficulty Losing them is a punishment for making mistakes. The reasons games are hard is because they're both expensive and really short You can beat the first castlevania in like 45 minutes That's true If you decent at it if you spent $60 on a game beat it and now you'd be pissed so the difficulty extends the life of a game um I mean if we go on a tangent separate to the video that argument itself Have you guys played anything on the nest that was ridiculously difficult? I haven't played anything. I castlevania So I went back to play castlevania and I loved it. I really like castlevania on the nest such a strange connection I have with that game.  So what do you what? What do you guys any comments on that as a sort of concept? What you mean, how much you pay and how much uh gratification you get from something is that What a spoke from I mean, you know, I think this is fair, but it's like it depends on the design choices But if for example, they made forward back and left right and vice versa to make it So you couldn't walk as fast or confusingly to extend the length of their game Then they're of course sabotaging control in order to stretch the game. So that's not good, right? We probably criticize that But making it really difficult Artificial difficulty. Is that the phrase I suppose? Yeah, um, yeah Versus something like making an enemy that's uh Telegraphing its its abilities, but it's very difficult to account for you know Like the difference between an easy song and a hard song a guitar hero, I suppose I guess the a good example is like bullet sponge enemies So yeah, where you spend an hour just whittling down the enemy's health and that's very Boring Whereas there might be other ways to work with your limitations to make a boss fight interesting It's one of those well I guess technically it's harder because I'm spending more time and the more time I spend here the more Chance there is for me to fail because of you know, this war of attrition the game wants me to go through The arguments Against Castlevania would be that the jump arc is fixed as in the second you jump You can't change it midair and you have to accept wherever it's going to end up which can be Really hard to deal with uh the enemies are Reaching the line between complicated to avoid and spam like they spare fire so much at you at once that it's like almost like Sometimes you'll be like is there even a way to escape this? so um I'd be interested to see what his arguments are but the the overall point of this comment is the They're trying to say that his opinion is that the the artificial extension of the game Is a bad a piece of poor design and that's a fact well as opposed to that's how I feel about it I guess is what their point is and then the other guy said this video is ass It went from presenting a personal opinion as a fact to being an ad for games I haven't seen the video so yeah, we'll have to um, maybe check it out the context for that You know one thing that's very interesting though is this whole I've never Been told about the whole he just thinks everything he says is factual until e-fap Like that was never a thing anyone ever really said to me Until I started doing the e-faps with you.  He was like who's right the guy's saying it's good or the guy's saying It's not good And I think this video is going to argue that both of them are right or neither of them are right While we'd argue that somebody's right like it depends on the references Maybe it's the way that you just present your arguments. Maybe that's on you Sure, I need to quit presenting my opinion as fact I can accept differing viewpoints. In fact, I Well, we're gonna have to read these as well Uh, but his approach to this subject was not the best one since a lot of the times He said some stuff as if they were facts when they were just his opinions Have you played an s games lately? They kind of suck And that makes me doubt if his judgment and reviews for other games on the future On the future are gonna be as biased as this one was so there's no point for me to watch other videos If I won't be able to trust those reviews um I think that's a fair argument If you said because this is the thing where I have a friend who won't play 2d games Just at all and he stands by the position that 3d games are just better than 2d And I'm like So you don't it's so wrong.  I'm sure he had reasoning beyond They're old But what I'm saying is like some people go as far as saying like they are bad because they are and then state what they are And it's like that's not Good enough because Yeah, you know, however, if if that person then made a review of a 2d game, I'd be like Yeah, yeah I'd consider giving that a miss I don't really want to hear why a 2d game is bad for the guy who thinks all 2d games suck compared to 3d games um He said that statement in particular is so lame though because it was totally tongue-in-cheek and they took it as really offensive Okay, but we don't really know what the statement is. Oh the statement is have you played nest games lately?  So I don't I mean I'll I'll agree that I think for the most part Well, I don't know about for the most part I was gonna say you'd have to play him first and as someone I can't quantify it But going back and playing like emulators and stuff some of these games are Yeah, but some of them are really fun There's there's nostalgia goggles isn't there? Oh true Well, this is the thing I my first gaming console was the game cube So I went back just out of curiosity and I found I really like the original Zelda and Castlevania. I think they're awesome However, they have their flaws and um The idea that let's just say I was I was best friends with snowman gaming And he was like, yeah, can you check my script and I said, oh, don't say Nest games suck They've said why I'd be like you're gonna need to present your argument first because people are gonna get pissed at that line There are people out there who adore the nest era and they're not going to be interested the second you say that because it's Think of it as me saying You play pc games lately.  I know you'd be like that's not the same Like that's how they feel about that that generation though those wait, how is it? How is it different? I don't know. I I I assume that might have been an argument. I can't make that argument Mollye that is eerie because my first console was a game cube as well Bionicle mask of light first game My first game was james bonn my first game was pacman, but Oh, well, this is the thing. It's not my it was my first Console, but I did have a game boy before that and I played all the pokemon So I don't know if that kind of counts as the original Most of the gaming I did was at a friend's house since he had like almost every console ever Yeah, and he said my theory is the video got picked up by the algorithm and people who love nest games started watching it It's like yep, that would explain the dislikes assuming your arguments are solid. I don't I don't know We don't know that Second video in a row you argue that being able to complete a game level quickly and Efficiently is a good thing. That's literally subjective opinion A subjective opinion I guess many people thrive from challenging sections and games and the videos you make the more I think you're just bad at playing video games. Oh, yeah, that would I don't necessarily disagree with that comment But I don't know that it counts as anything you said specifically in your video The idea that you complete a game quickly or slowly I mean wolf and rags argued about this with The fuck was a hellblade like it's uh, there's a lot to break down for what it might mean about a game But I'm sure that's a that's a poor representation of what's in your video because I can't imagine you saying I completed it quickly Therefore it was good That's um a bit weird I will say 100% of the nest video was weirded poorly needed another few drafts in the cooker. It led to misrepresentations I see Remember guys, what have we learned from efab be explicit because interpretation is everything you can slap them with it That and and many other things Give me all helicopter in my opinion as fact I can accept differing viewpoints. In fact, I encourage it But what I can't stand are ones that assume. I believe oh god. Why do they assume that? What do you say it pulls before you said they assume what? Um, we'll just back it up. Okay I can't stand are ones that assume. I believe I'm some sort of game design god that can't be questioned um From what I've seen They want to question what you are stating to be a truth Uh, because they believe that's something a human could do while you may not just like joseph anderson doesn't seem to So it's a clash of world views in a way as in if I said Lj is bad and someone was like no, it's not and I go it's just like how I feel about it Two different interpretations fighting each other immediately I'm gonna vibe. This is this is like the joseph anderson video. Well, this is gotta leave myself that back door This is the um this video is created because of that video Yeah Ever ever watch but we should probably read these another thing I took issue with this video Is you simply make the statement nest games are bad not only lumping together all the gems with the ship But stating it is a fact and treating it as one I for one Unlikely tens of thousands of others quite enjoy the type of challenge presented by the old nest games I really I just feel you could have worded it a lot differently. Well, yeah, there you go Um, I think you probably agree with that statement Good and bad are subjective terms It depends on what you're referring to particularly when it comes to entertainment But the entire crux of your whole web series is completely flawed Well, this is the funny thing this applied to just right and snowing gaming in there They have good game design or bad writing good writing bad game design But both just right and snowing and we will likely say that it was always meant to be subjective When they say those things So it's interesting because there's other there's people on the other side of the aisle that would be like That's a definitive statement. You just made so you better back it up sort of thing Otherwise it would be invalid and then it's like well, it's just how I feel Um This video in particular depends on the idea that your opinion is what of what is bad is factually correct When honestly it just means you don't like these aspects There's nothing wrong with disliking nest games for whatever reason is growing up with them I totally understand these games aren't for everyone but to pass yourself off as an expert on the subjects Now that is something that could be qualified Did you say anything like you being an expert on the subjects? They solely on your own opinion strikes me as fairly biased like that's a weird thing to say if he didn't actually say it, you know Yeah, we'll roll it back and keep on going Let's assume I believe I'm some sort of game design god that can't be questioned I have never once ever Claimed to be an authority figure in game design game creation or development insights I'm just like most people on this platform a dude with some opinions who simply decided to make videos about them In fact, in some ways I sort of pride myself on making relatively simple videos on the topic as a sort of element Um I was gonna say it's a humble take because like would would we say that about ourselves? I'd be like, I guess it'd be stupid if I said I just make simple videos for People to watch because yeah, mine requires that you really do care about the source to be watching all of it Um, I don't think my fallout review is simple. But yeah I'd say all four of us here and and snow my game. We're probably like, yeah I don't think any of us have claimed to be an authority in any way about uh A position again coming back to the whole why would we I don't know a scenario Professor toss pot.  Uh, not outright.  He's he's british. He must be doing something right.  Look at all those books. He has he's clearly very learned Also, just to clarify if someone told you they were a gaming expert. What do you think that would mean? I Their fingers are covered in Cheeto dust Hey, that's Dorito dust to you. I would um, I would assume that they just thought they were really good at playing video games I would assume they may have developed some because how could you be? I don't know. I think you'd have to yeah I think it has to be maybe a game to it But then then that gets into the weird territory of being an authority on something. It's like And I think I've spoken to to to more about this. Well, it's Uh For me I sometimes And this isn't a standard, but I find it can sometimes help when a film reviewer has actually maybe Had experience of making films because they kind of have an insight into the actual business And how hard it is to make a film because making films is really fucking hard So much can go wrong and it's a shame when some a film does go wrong because so many things go into it You know, it's not just uh camera work and music and lights this sets this so many little intricacies um, which is why I was kind of Dumbfounded that some people, you know when red letter media made a space cop And they're like, oh, it's purposely bad and people panned it and a lot of people lost respect for red letter media because they said Oh, well, you go on about What makes films good and bad and here you are you've made a bad film Surely if you if you're if you're these experts on what makes a good film You can make a good film and I actually and I disagree with that. I thought What they intended to make They are they wanted well, this is the thing what I what I will say Encounter to that slightly is that I would love to see them give a really hard shot of making a good film What they considered to be a good because I understand space cop was almost a celebration of b-movies in a way Yeah, yeah, they had a lot of like references to b-movies that they had watched On my best first and stuff. Yeah, like they I'm pretty sure they've decided They don't want to make another one ever again because of the struggle of getting space cop completed. I'm just like, man I'd love to see them Do a full-on movie In the past, but they've never had the the big budgets only thing like that They're pretty much some of their older stuff is very student film like But I my my point is I don't think they have to hand in their Reviewing credentials because they made a movie that was not well received to flip it Right to flip it some people who make movies Might not be able to criticize movies very effectively Yeah, yeah, like they're two very different fields. Uh, you could do both obviously you could maybe not do either I don't know but it's it's interesting and it's good to get an insight into both from both angles. I suppose Yeah, but I think in terms of Authority levels. I think maybe you could argue You have a little bit more insight because you've worked in film. I think that can help I agree with you. It's just that we would it come in in the video. You know, do you stop the video? I go and you should listen to me because I make films you'd be like just make your arguments You don't need to say that exactly. Yeah. Yeah I sort of pride myself on making relatively simple videos on the topic as a sort of elementary introduction for those getting interested Sorry, I can't play the watch together did in game design. There's no plan. No, it's stock. Here. Let me reload. Okay Um Yeah, I've always thought that mark brown was was what he's just talked about the whole entry level Uh game design sort of discussion, but I guess mark brown doesn't cover everything. So why not do have an extra guy doing it? Uh, why Is it uh, we're confused now Fun making relatively excellent Simple videos on the topic as a sort of elementary introduction for those getting interested in game design for the first time Now that doesn't mean that I can't improve either though I've already learned so much and done countless research since starting this channel But for the record, I have never made a video game professionally and have not worked in the industry Though I have made smaller projects for fun. If that makes you want to no longer watch my videos Hey, it's been fun. But again, I've literally like I don't it don't care where you come from what you've done I'm just interested in seeing what you say and how you support it. That's all I ever care about It's just never ever once mattered to me ever And it's the thing man like people say it as a joke It's like well, you wouldn't want to watch a film review from a guy who's literally seen zero films So I'd be like, I don't know we watched jay's videos. That'd be interesting I think it would be yeah Watchers just find like a hermit Get a hermit out of a perugian cave I mean wouldn't it be amazing because they might they might be like Jesus Christ. What was that? What was that? Was that real? And you're like Yeah, so he said he's just setting the record straight for anybody who thinks that He ever said he was an expert, which yeah, that goes the same for all of us, by the way We're not no experts on the subject. We just like to talk about them. What if you were once a pert? But now you're not anymore Once a what? A pert what does that stand for what? I don't know but if you used to be a pert and now you're not anymore Well, how would you know if we don't know what that means? It doesn't it doesn't matter. You have to know what it means to be a thing but Yeah, you do No, you don't rags throwing the curveballs, but How can he I mean I can't say I'm a gamer if I literally have no concepts. What rags has played us I actually didn't catch that at all expert if you were you recently It's racist dude. Wolf's not even human.  I don't know you should have brought that in wolf because he did beat the bot First off, I finished the game only only by just barely.  It's a robot. Oh, how do you use the skynet?  Is that what you're saying? Also, did you know wolf did you just say that if you had left earlier the wolf bot would have won Are you saying like with less of your input your surrogate would have beaten us? Probably yes You know that the robot changed the rules.   No, I changed.  Hey, if you if I had left like 15 minutes earlier wolf bot would have won I'm just saying You would have lost to a computer. Aren't you no, that's what's so amazing is that you were doing so terribly and then the robot took over and then Hey, I designed that robot to be better than me Maybe you should have spent all that time practicing if that was your intent wolf you nailed a game that I've never played before It's all for positivity. I didn't play it.  Just get it out your system.   I'm not watching I watch Patrick Williams because he's an expert on film. He's made his own I Watch my videos. Hey, it's been fun But again, I've never claimed as such and any video I've ever made has been from the perspective of a player who wants to talk about His experiences nothing more. So please this is something everyone needs to be reminded you can say that but This reminds me of the whole like everything I just I'm about to say is subjective And then the following statement is this game is bad and that is a fact Then I end it with that was all subjective Just Just qualify the things you say Honestly, I wonder if that applies to every statement he's ever made, but maybe Topps for years now say it with me A creator's opinion is in shot off with that annoying voice thing people do What's the point? What's the point of the megaphone if it's not going to be loud? It's a autistic choice.  I find this statement more agreeable than joseph anderson's but it's still kind of A creator's opinion is applied. I don't even A creator's opinion is implied to be a creator's opinion. Is that is that I mean really? That's a no shit statement, but the problem that I think the video is trying to say that I guess I I think what the issue here is that he probably just made a video with really badly presented arguments And he just can't get over that A lot of people in the comments seem to be Under serious miss uh, you know miss apprehension of what's being said in the ice being in the ideas Well, there's a thing it kind of happened to joseph anderson.  I made a few mistakes People are calling me out on it. You realize this whole subjective right shield up I mean, I'll I'll say right now I still think I still think I'm absolutely correct I'm a quiet place being an awful movie, but I would agree with you I will more than happily concede the point that I could have presented my arguments in a much better way Sure I think that happens to all of us was the thing. Um, it's as I said in the video is less about Uh, being right and wrong.  Yeah, so this this is this this is this this is this It's just like, yeah, there's no problem. Um I think this whole topic is a learning experience without a doubt creators Still do have some responsibility to qualify the views.   Mm-hmm. Just to respect that Yeah, you're not paying us to talk Brags like, all right, get some you can hear like chain sounds The chains are implied the change is subjective There's no such thing as objective opinion if I Okay, so Did you guys hear that? All right, let's let's let's play it again. Sorry I didn't mean to play this again The more you think about it, this should be obvious. There's no such thing as objective opinions So snowman gaming this is this is the divide we've discovered as uh approaching things on e-fab. Um The objective opinion is almost like, um, yes or no question. Does it exist? Uh Since me wolf and rags have been clear on this subject. Why don't you explore it voxess What is well, is there such a thing and if there was what would it be for objective opinion? Oh, that is a tricky one because then you obviously get into the the realm of semantics, aren't you? That's right. Uh objective opinion Yeah Here's like an oxymoron because obviously you're saying there it's you know opinion is what's going to be subjective objective opinion. Hmm It's my objective opinion that pineapple does not belong um So it depends it depends on the context doesn't well go for it. Just just just for clarification This could help with people in your audience as well. Um without looking it up What would you give as a definition of opinion? Just just go for it Your your subjective thoughts on something that You've developed from your personal perspective And if that were the definition of opinion objective opinion would be an oxymoron I would agree with you. Um, but as far as I know and I work from Commonly accepted I guess or you you could call it. I can't remember which dictionary it's from or which standards or whatever Um opinion is a view or judgment And a viewer judgment can be a lot of things. Uh, so if I expressed to voxis that the sun is bright today That would be relative and subjective because bright is a matter of what is uh taking it in as a However, if I said the sun was a star today Who is the sun is a star and you said that's subjective because it's your opinion The counter that joseph anison would levy is that well now Molar is stating a fact Um while I'd be like no, it's still an opinion because it's a viewpoint. It's a it's a judgment. I've just made Um based on information that I've collected And it's I mean there's people who like in their opinion genuinely believe the earth is flat That doesn't make their opinion right, but if someone says in my opinion the earth is Their opinion is right objectively.  I don't really care the flat earthers are subhuman. They're worse than eric. No, actually He's the ball in the barrel for you that you could use of like an objective opinion Is it is my opinion that no bachelors are married? Yeah, yeah by definition By definition this is like no a bachelor cannot be married All right, so if we've moved on from there, uh snowman gave me just said, okay But uh good and bad would be subjective terms now When this is this is obviously up for everybody because good and bad have I believe seven definitions that are used currently in in you can check which dictionary, but you'll have many The one I use when i'm referring to media is usually the craft it response. It corresponds to as in tlj Is objectively bad will usually reference its writing I'll often try and clarify by saying Uh objectively poor editing or objectively poor. Let's just go with writing for simplicity sake. Um And then you'd be like, okay So what what would it mean to be objective about the craft of writing? I went over this in the um in the progress I had with with vox's previously on uh with with Cynical cj as well the um Good and bad meaning Uh To a high standard or a low standard in the craft However, yeah, someone could respond. No good and bad means enjoyable or not enjoyable and I would be like Yeah, that's another way to use that word That's not the way I'm using it and as long as you're clear, um Well, you should you can understand why there's these these arguments online because of all these levels of interpretation You can have sometimes you have to spend a really long time explaining and then you end up with 15 hour videos Yeah, exactly and with something like art as well Uh, that then it gets all kinds of nebulous and confusing because art especially with film because You can look at film from the writing standpoint and you can put it from the the editing standpoint as well Shogoth said the earth is just a weird grape. Don't you start with me. It is true Just calm down a grape isn't a sphere. I know it's an oblate spheroid Much like how the earth is an oblate spheroid The earth is not the same as a grave. Don't don't start this. Oh, yeah, it's a weird one More look at the tranquilizer gun will you? Smaller, where's the spray bottle? So when it comes to if if you're starting a discussion and you're talking about topics where you can't agree on definitions One thing to do is to say, okay Since we can't agree on this word Let's let's agree to not even use this word and each of us will come up with our own Alternative way to define the concept Because a lot of the times one of the one of the issues is that people often confuse the map for the place Words are descriptions of or descriptions of concepts essentially, right?  Sometimes.  Is it a joke? Is it satire? you know Analyze take a step back rather than this kind of knee jerk reaction To a statement that and that seems to be a prevalent thing on the internet nowadays Like some people on facebook They just see the the headlines of a news article and they mean to go. Ah bacon. It gives you cancer I just saw the headline and they don't stop to they always have that the initial emotive response rather than going No more bacon there guys yeah uh black Ligula said the examples you gave about objective opinion the sun is a star consider it a fact I would consider that a fact is an objective opinion really a fact um The the response that would be it could be because a fact is defined differently to an opinion Or an objective opinion An objective opinion would be the example we usually use to try and clarify this for people would be that If you have a thermometer and rags ask me what the temperature is right now I tell him the temperature is 30 degrees or whatever depends where you put the thermometer, doesn't it? And uh, well, no the what I just said was an objective What I just said was an objective opinion and then someone could be like well It's just a fact and then it turns out the thermometer was broken and I didn't know that So what I just said was still objective and it was still my opinion But it was based on faulty information thus being inaccurate But it was still objective because I had no investment emotionally into whether or not that information was received or translated I literally just read it off the thermometer.  You just we get into epistemology Yeah, but then you get metaphysical, don't you? Think I think therefore I am what is real perception and all that I think that's why we sometimes just have to go.  I'm trying to review something We're ejecting from the conversation When people do that when you have to like if you ever have to stop and ask but what is real and Then where's no you need to stop you need to stop Yeah, because then you're just going on tangents. We need to come off as a bit of a pseudo intellectual wanker Uncompetitive said it was an unemotional opinion Um, you realize what objective means. I don't know That's just we're getting to semantics again. That's thus seems to be the only real issue It seems like you understand what we're saying Which is the whole point Someone said eyes are subjective. Okay, jaden smith Oh jaden and you're How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real? So, uh, what color is subjective? Do you think jaden's like secretly a genius and just nobody is on the evolved level of intellectualism? No, because he's not that good an actor He don't have to be a good actor to be an intellectual jaden smith is like He's the socrates of our time. No, he's socrates if socrates was deprived oxygen at birth Hey, and was repeatedly dropped on his chat.  It's already gone to your head Just to clarify though if you guys click that and then go down to number five Do you want to do you want to read that rags just so that hopefully this will be the um, this is from dictionary I'll just post it in the chat number five number five The let's see the definition of objective Um five not influenced by personal feelings interpretations or prejudice based on facts unbiased and then The example Some people have called the example is an objective opinion So this is not an objective opinion. It's like an english phrase. What I'm suggesting is we didn't make this up We didn't we didn't come up with ourselves Which is something that a lot of people accuse us of they're like this is just your metrics Like no we got this from learning about things and I know that everyone else did too But like the other thing is that um if you try out the whole everything is subjective or all opinions are subjective In facts or objective things like you get loads of contradictions that start popping up Um in terms of how you can actually break things down and I don't know the the goal is clarity with language and communication, right? I'm trying to get our ideas across to each other as quickly as possible Yeah, how do how do you explain the same concept to somebody else? How do you get the thoughts in your brain to go into someone else's brain? Yeah, um, but yeah, funnily enough. I believe joseph aniston used dictionary.com For his definition of opinion and then someone shot this at him from the same website and Uh, I could be wrong on this but from what I remember he was like, that's clearly something they need to update Or something they need to change God someone said uh someone said jaden loke Anyway, let's kick on Get on it. There's no such thing as objective opinion If I say in my video title that something has bad game design, that's my personal view I'll tell you it might not be though Yeah, does he not think that there are objectively bad game design late, um Well, the hitbox is one will just be the easiest to example just a hitbox That doesn't match the model whatsoever. So a player couldn't possibly interpret where the damaged space even is Thus being completely antithetical to the purpose of it in terms of a piece of game design Like would that would that be based on personal opinion or would that be something you consider objective? I don't know if he's still in the chat, but We shall hear I think he's mounted Oh god, it's 30 degrees in here according to the moment my personal view Well, someone said actually in the chat, um, well, don't forget that mollus thermometer is probably working In my video Celsius while rags would be working off Fahrenheit. That doesn't actually matter If we were in the same room, it wouldn't matter at all Yeah, it wouldn't matter actually if we could both hold this different thermometers that were in our respective measurements for heat And we could both say oh it's such a successious and I'd say such such Fahrenheit. We'd still both be yeah, they'd be the same value Ultimately, it's just that one is more correct in the American version You guys came after us. So no there's no Fahrenheit is better Fahrenheit's better for temperature But I like uh for distance I like metric like even which is so weird I've played so many video games That in real life I describe distances in meters because I feel I'm more accurate describing things in meters I do put my gps in kilometers Rather than miles and you've betrayed our country. I don't know. I like it when the Australian guys Drive 70,000 kilometers or something. Oh fahrenheit came first. I didn't say fahrenheit came first or second I said britain came first. That's why we're better than america fahrenheit Oh, britain Such thing as objective opinion if I say in my video title that something has a bad game does on a grape You mean earth Yeah, she can if you can fit it Who can't these days earth is nice and you leave lizzie alone. Yeah queen swallows earth explodes Wait earth explodes what she does She explodes because if earth exploded, how do they get this uh this piece of news out there If earth explodes then technically she would as well Earth is just european. She could survive. She could be in an astronaut If leia can survive in space, yeah You say the queen doesn't have the force what i walks into Everyone's crack pipes must be hot to the touch.  We're getting there The more you think about it. This should be obvious There's no such thing as objective opinion if I say in my video title that something has bad game design That's my personal view. I'll talk about why I think that and hopefully share some valid reasons as to why but I will never claim that Why do you have so little Faith Why do you have so little confidence in your opinions that you don't think everyone should agree When he says valid reasons, does he mean objective reasons? I don't know, but he did that before he said he said valid opinion earlier on Like what do you mean a valid opinion? I wonder what valid means in the context something that is supported versus something that's not maybe I don't know But then it would I think everyone should Have my share my opinions Wow, I think they're the better. I think they're the better opinions. That's why I have them I mean funnily enough rags that makes sense, but I don't think people would interpret it that way They would be like rags thinks he has the he's the smartest guy ever I think I have the right opinions. That's why I have them. Yes That's what I was gonna say. This is a fundamental about human nature almost, but um, yeah If you're espousing a position you will have generated that position based on what you consider to be the accurate position Hopefully based on something but you might maybe one day someone reveals to you that someone goes Hey, your your thing is based on false information. You go.  Who am I that sort of thing? I think I think people confuse that. I think my position is correct My position cannot be wrong. Well, I was gonna say just just a experiment for you guys Do you think that the positions you hold are wrong? No, like no because you wouldn't hold them Yeah, because if I if you answered that affirmatively that you've got some incredible cognitive dissonance going on in your head Yeah, we have to deal with what a person we have really low self-esteem Excuse me, can I have opinion on something? Is that all right? No Yeah, he said, um He said supported by evidence, so I guess he he would say validity is determined by the evidence would probably be what he means Oh, I think that and hopefully So you can have objective opinions Don't think he defined it that way. That's the difference. You have a straight there Mola I'll talk. Well, this is the thing man. I guess complicated because he's gonna say the same thing as Joseph Anderson Where they're like you'll have objective evidence and then you'll have the subjective Opinion on top of that and then they'll separate them. They'll draw the line differently to how we draw it Soy milk is good for you.  Yeah, I think it was I think it was the part too of um, I hope you drown in silk Brown in silk Still soy milk. That's what that's what it is. That's what soy milk is. It's silk. The rags silk is another thing Silk is a different thing rags. Soy milk No, rags fake milk rags stop. No, I'm serious like you could go to the store and you could buy silk Rags that would be silk No, it wouldn't I am literally going to send you a picture right now because Okay, well, I'm talking about a brand called silk You live in the american south and everything down there is wrong Silk look at that uh target in sam's club target Kroger, what a beat a cost cost It's rated very highly and I think the read there because that's exploding about soy milk Soy was eight. Does this rags like soy milk? Yes, I do Question answered you can keep that one for free and smoke it to the bank. So let's continue That's my personal view. I'll talk about why I think that and hopefully share some valid reasons as to why But I will never claim that everyone should agree with me And why is this so important because I don't want to say in my opinion before every sentence that Then don't just make good arguments Why do you why is this a thing that people say? I don't want to have to say in my opinion of the beginning You don't need to say it at all. There's never even a time where it's needed to be said in any scenario I think I said it like once or twice ever. I said it once in the tfa video for the meme I don't think I'm not sure if I have I mean all you need to do is just make good arguments If you're not capable of making good arguments that there is your problem Honestly, it's almost slang. Like it's used Irrelevantly because the content of what you said will define whether or not it was Whether or not it was an opinion objective subjective fact statement view judgment all these things They're not determined by you giving them the label like if I said Braggs cows can be milked and I just gave you an assessment of the technical details of a nuclear submarine You'd be like that's not what you did and I'm like, okay, but that's what I said I did so You know it's irrelevant. We already know what you did based on what you said He said based on the comments saying I present opinion as fact I felt it needed to be so the problem isn't going to be solved by you saying And that's my opinion at the end if you said nest games suck Because people are going to be like no they don't you go. Yeah, it's just my opinion.  It's you don't have to put in in my opinion the beginning of every sentence And it's like you don't like who Why would you need to what nobody ever accused me of any of this stuff before I was on eFAP and never when got Oh Everything like years of making videos and this just wasn't a thing that really Whatever popped up for me. Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of Arguments objective subjective my opinion. Oh, I don't understand. EFAP has killed my my interest in using the phrase in my opinion like Like is erased from any script that had ever meant to be it but like I said it'll only ever be there unnecessarily I'll look at it Maybe But again, it all depends on context and how do you set up? How little confidence do you have in your writing ability? If you feel like the only way to do it is they I have to put the words in my opinion every sentence It's just a matter of examples, right? So if I am telling you I don't like doxels, too I don't need to put in my opinion on the before after that. That's very self-evident what I just said I don't like it The rags and wolf and box this year can be like he doesn't like it That doesn't tell us anything about whether or not it's good But if I tell you the hitbox is a fucking terrible and I show you 50 examples I don't need to put in my opinion on the end of that either because what I just did was objective It was like it doesn't matter what my commentary was you saw the evidence It's like people haven't seen an essay before I mean you make a point and you give your examples your evidence and Explain you expand on it He says um He says if they simply don't agree, that's totally different from this guy needs to stop presenting their opinion as fact That's the main issue. I have so well then ignore it.   Frosty on I was gonna say let's try and finish the video so he can come on If he wants just to make sure we If there's anything left of him or bugger Let's let's let's try and run through the rest everyone should agree with me And why is this so important because I don't want to say in my opinion before every sentence. That's why I was like I guess just a quick pause. I would say for this video. I don't like it more than I dislike You don't like it more than you dislike it Yes, okay, not only would that be so oh, he's at work. He can't well We'll just have to keep going with the format we got I guess Hang on you're at work and you're typing. You're not a very productive worker. Are you man? What if his work is peddling? What work do you do if you're like an ER surgeon?    No, I've been salted on the internet Then we'll get on if they have jobs. He said the truth is you can't presep please everyone in my dk 64 video I prefaced it with an in my opinion thing and half the comments were pissed I had to say it the other half was still pissed at my opinions. Well, doesn't that mean This the the latter half were not satisfied by the in my opinion part Even though you used it while the former half were pissed that you used it anyway So wouldn't that be evidence that you just shouldn't use it at all? What is your job snowman? I want to know also, isn't this video about how you don't need to say it Like you're making the argument that you shouldn't say it someone said he's a subjective surge Madam I think maybe Anyway, let's let's kick on sentence. That's why not only would that be so boring to watch and terrible writing, but It would be boring and terrible.   Okay, but I would hope that you're Sorry that tickled me. Well done, Ben master. I can't come terrible. I'm coming somewhere All right, but I would hope that you're intuitive enough to discern that on your own See, okay, so you're intuitive enough to discern that on your own What if I told you doxels 2 is a bad game because of the hit boxes and because man, I just find it so boring What have I just given you in that selection? Any three of you can you have what what you have said you said two things one of them. I would say is more Able to be justified than the other Well, the other is purely subjective and if I put in my opinion on the end of all of that We would just be like redundant Yeah, be like okay, but uh, yeah, so if someone listened to it They'd be like wait you said something that could be quantified and then you said how you felt and then you said that the game is Bad as a result of these two things so It's so confusing and this is the thing a lot of people may not think about this and a lot of a lot of people Will consider us assholes for even putting it out there But like writing is hard and being definitively careful about what words you use to describe what you're actually trying to say instead of conflating combining and What the the whole premise of my tfa video was the combination of the subjective and the objective and I know that that's um Something that might be many people would be like you can't even do that when it's just your opinion on media But obviously with what we've talked about already That sentence I just gave you like that's an I that's the example I would give and I would avoid that like the plague if I was trying to describe to you why The opening scene with tecker and kylo and poin tfa doesn't work and my notes were it's boring. It's annoying.  It's ugly. I'd be like, yeah, all of these don't work I need to describe what all of these even mean where they come from why I'm why I'm saying them Because I see the snowman says I'd say hey, that's your opinion. I agree too cool Even if I disagree I'd be like cool. That's fine bottom line. I wish people would chill out Is that a pun mr. Snowman?  Because I think it would be and then you'd be like, okay But why does random people get furious then I'd be like well, what if they're passionately invested in this game? Like it helped them and I'm not being hyperbolic here. There's videos out there You can go find where people say a video game saved their life Like I've got those emails every once in a while. I was depressed.  I agree with that It's just that um, you'll find that the videos that piss people off the most so What are the most disliked videos on youtube?  Um, I mean mattha pat the nes pun one of his he made a diabolo immortal video Like a game was just titled, but yeah, did you guys see um, yacht sees video on fallout 76 No, no, you you really should because in the first like minute or so he talks about Briefly the diabolo immortal stuff in the fallout 76 and the the the kickback that these games have been getting um kind of he kind of bashing the industry and people who defend the industry when they do stuff like this, but A very good example of that Go watch yacht sees Unfortunate here's the unfortunate part in order to get to yacht sees content on youtube You have to brush past movibobs garbage because they are on the same channel. That's true Be careful And don't click on the wrong video. Also knight hood said do you find games to be harder to objectively review than movies? I spoon a spoon. I assume that means the answer is yes, but not through some form of like impossibility of informational extraction, it's just that games Typically have more in them. There's more aspects to cover And games also have as a fundamental part of their design kind of like Almost like a wild card in terms of the individual player who's Going through it. Yeah, there's loads to really address It's a little messy element. Whereas a movie will always be the same no matter what Game isn't quite like that. It does require input from an individual Um, it's a little mess here. Yeah, uh, he said he's heading home and he'll be back in 30 minutes and you can probably talk to us so Let's try and make this last 30 minutes It's been an hour and a half and we've I think we should probably hurry that we've lost 800 viewers that they've been on it's a bit too long I mean, it's up to them what they want. I'm interested in giving the guy just wanted to see totaled loak That's probably true actually But yeah, I wanted to have a chance to come on if he wants to though So it would be it would make more sense if we were on this video as opposed to jumping to the next one if you know what I mean Do you think he would defend tonal? I don't think he would know him or I feel like the different crowds totaled loak is in the uh, what if tonal is the thing that gets him to believe in objectivity Like we show it to a means like all right. I'm with you guys completely the light of tonal Um, but yeah, let's let's see how because he's about to bring in Joseph Anderson I think or at least reference him critique youtuber They would agree with the sentiment 100 percent. In fact, Joseph Anderson made a very similar video a little while ago And it's very very good Hey, if you like his videos, you should read his books Yeah, like interstellar marines Look Oh It's Just go just go read the amazon snippet of interstellar marines. Oh, I'm sure you'll love it Um, yeah, I read it out loud on a previous stream. Yeah. Yeah, CJ was telling me Oh, it was beautiful But this is the thing Um Joseph Anderson's video was really bad. It had loads of really bad arguments to support his idea, which was very very simple Which is I define these words these way leave me alone But it didn't even apply to his videos because I've been watching Joseph Anderson for a long time and he's made so many objective arguments um And like made definitive statements and then he's just crawling back to the whole it's subjectively me alone So it's not a hard game leave me alone You have a very strange relationship, don't you he doesn't um He doesn't you he refuses to speak to me because I used The m word massive Um, the what I called him a massive faggot. I think the use of the word massive really uh, Sigh shaming.  Yeah, so, you know, I've learned a lot from that, but um, you know No chance of joseph coming on but it would be interesting to see if you'll ever be able to mend that Besides he interpreted what I said as me trying to pull back my apology when um That opens up a whole interesting conversation about What it means to apologize in what context as in what what? So, uh vox is if I If I opened a door and it hit you in the back because I didn't realize you were standing out there Uh, and I said sorry Would I be apologizing to you because I opened a door? Or would I be apologizing to you for the result of me having opened the door without knowing you were there?  I like the way it rolls off the tongue. Oh, it's beautiful And and the argument that it upsets homosexual people is just not it doesn't hold any weight, especially not on this podcast um for reasons such as uh, um, I mean Some people here like both the biobes and the peen. I'm just putting it out there. Okay. You like both nothing wrong with that I like both and these people these nameless people also happen to use that word which almost presents a sort of Strange conundrum if they're supposed to be offended. Yeah, sometimes we use the word to describe ourselves I did that and people got upset On one of my videos. I was like, wait, what?    Tangent isn't it? Oh, absolutely. We are killing time until frosty gets on That's true, but yeah, but it's doubles up as um Joseph will never come into this podcast because I said the naughty word and on top of that He he considers me having pulled my apology back when I was explicit from the beginning I don't apologize for using the word I hope you can water under the faggot as far as I'm concerned. I think They're not aware of that definition If he wants an apology then because I think it'd be fun on e-fap What's the thing people find it offensive right when you go, I'm sorry you're offended It's like what else do you want from me? I'm sorry you were offended Yeah, yeah I love how we watched the mask of zoro yesterday and there is even that line like i'm so Yeah I didn't know moller just invited me Wow, hey wait, it's not like that.  I referenced it and wolf was like Yeah, I've never seen it before I love the mask of zoro Well, I was just mentioning it because there's that line in the where The god, why can't I not think of his name? I should really know his name No, no the bigger Anthony hopkins. Yeah Anthony hopkins. Why could I not remember his name? He's only the biggest actor Anyway, there's that or no that wasn't him. That was some random dude who went up to the other talking about It was it was that guy who was like i'm sorry if you're offended Well, listen, I would help you out trying to find out what happened in the but it's been so long and I haven't seen it recently We'll rewatch it right now that I know that you love it. The thing is though We have semantic progression words can change meaning over time And I think if we if we didn't make the word taboo, and if we all just went around like how are you faggot? What look at this faggot?  Does it depower the word or does it normalize the insult? If you only give it as much power as you want it to have Yeah, I get funny looks at me when I eat mr.   That's offensive faggots in an oven But um, yeah stabber said offense is taken not given Correct. Yeah, beautiful. Um, but anyway, yeah, let's let's kick on let's kick on because at this rate We won't finish it by the time he's here Little while ago, and it's very very good. Please go watch his as well All I'm saying is that if we're to survive as a human race, we need to be more accepting of when we hear a different font I find that statement's a big grandiose dude. Let me let me let me run it again in case the audience didn't hear it Very sorry the internet. I'm great and it's very very good.   He was being tongue-in-cheek I guess I I'm understand what he's saying. We should all be open to different opinions, but Honestly, I'm okay if the human race doesn't survive I think we need like the heat death of the universe. You know, it'll bring it on wolf It won't be won't be global warming or some kind of attack.  Uh, are we gonna stop? No, it'll be because someone said to put in the sign Five is yet and he's like, oh The gaze will take over and then no children will be born and then it will be the cockroach's time to thrive It'll be it'll be like children of men as soon as someone says in my opinion pregnancy is not real pregnancy will stop And then there'll be one kid left We need to be more accepting of when we hear a differing thought The internet has been a blessing and a curse because while it's opened many doorways for people to share with each other in new ways We would have never dreamed of decades ago It also has given us multiple avenues to say things in a relatively anonymous and guilt-free way Next time before you faggot, faggot, faggot, faggot, faggot, faggot Uh, yeah He what he what he just said is true, but it doesn't really hold relevance as far as I'm concerned Yeah, it's it's not relevant and thank god people are anonymous on the internet Yeah anonymous and guilt-free way next time before you comment on a video bashing the creator for how wrong They are and a terrible person because of it think about if you would say the same thing to that person if you saw them face to face I'm sorry There's two dogs and a puppet and a guy in a gas mask who might just be very badly burned He might be he's a lizard man.  Oh, what what did this video just become? I don't know though. There's a weird weird ending.  It's like maybe depends what they said Well, yeah, is it the same if if I'm in public and I say I didn't like persona five Is that gonna start a race war? It's very Might nowadays, um I'm trying to think of like well, I'll just like think of the worst thing someone could say to you in public Would you go? Well, this is in public. So I won't criticize you. It's like no I'll go for it. I don't mind Yeah, people get it.  Well, I was just gonna say like It's like ignoring all of the good things that come with that to be candid about what's happening in the video Like go for it Um, obviously people say some horrible things online Sure But I don't know if this seems a bit hyperbolic. It's like maybe you wouldn't say that if you saw me in person It's like maybe they would I've said significantly worse in person Yeah, I mean, I've had some I've had some arguments in person. Let me say that It's big on things in a relatively anonymous and guilt-free way Next time before you comment on a video bashing the creator for how wrong they are and also the way he phrases that Bashing the creator for how wrong they are. It's like, well, what if they were really wrong and they misrepresented something Wouldn't bashing them be warranted depending on what your definition of bashing is Yeah, a lot of this would a lot of this issue would be resolved if you had a thicker skin, honestly Yes, yes, but it's it's 2019. I need my safe space. I'm offended by that word You couldn't you wouldn't download a car. So why would you download an insult? Well, just by browsing the internet you're downloading insults I'm gonna I'm gonna open up faggot.exe.  Can you show an example of that by the way? Couldn't you as you actually got comments saying your opinion on the nest is inaccurate And therefore you're a terrible person Geez, I'd be like wow How did they guess you character just from talking about nest games?   I got the crowd warmed up. They're they're just like gooey putty now Wonder how yeah, this is gonna add super positively That we're all human and are no different when it comes to having flaws and separate views If you're already on board here and think this topic was a no What what what do you mean unjustified? Hey, are you saying that my opinion doesn't matter? Well, we were going over this slightly earlier It's like what is the correct amount of feeling one has in response to a thing How are you supposed to react to things? You know, it's like Can you really say that someone someone shouldn't be angry if you've gotten something wrong about something They're really passionate about it's like Ever forget that we're all human and are no different when it comes to having flaws and separate views If you're already on board here and think to say whatever was already thinking It's a no-brainer.  The best thing we can Unchecked. I just what does he mean by all of these words? Unjustified hatred going unchecked. What what is all that? I would never ever say That you can't let the comments and the comment section of my video go unchecked like the hatred is just I'm like Oh, I'm so sorry that this bothers you, man I don't know This seems to be that the the nest video happened Then josephanson put the video out about horror games and he got shot on then he put out the Defense video for that and it got shot on and I think snowman would have empathized with it Been like, oh man. I get I get what's happening to you. Just happen to me But this contradicts what he said previously where we need to be able to Press our opinions and shout out is for the survival of the species might I So by having to curb some of the things you see what I mean It's like we need to be free with ideas, but but not too free because it might upset people That's the whole idea though.  I just I'm curious what What is unjustified? I'm yeah, what do you mean unjustified? It's just like it can only you can only be so angry. You're only allowed to be so angry hatred but Like when it's not when it's you or are you not any youtube not any youtube video?  Is that a reference to rags or snowmen? Rags I'm not I'm not gonna say I'm better than you like in general, but I might point specific people. Yeah, I'm better than them Well, if someone wanted like a serious Qualification of that it would just be like better in what way morally and then you'd have to provide a standard or better in um How much they help a community or how much they what they operate with standards they have better Is just gonna be based on a specific thing. You just have to ask them what they're doing reference to anna casperian of the young turks Better than you. Okay. Well, you didn't know that one I don't watch the young turks.   It's like cool, right?  I was in we're already talking about hitler. That's true. The chat is true I'm better bred than you. That's true. I think I think it took a while for us to get to hitler considering to be honest Wasn't quick. Yeah Was a no-brainer.  The best thing we can do for one another is encourage each of us to do better So sorry, this video wasn't about any games or at least in Oh, you're so edgy. Oh, baby. I went there. Why did you? What's the point of telling a joke if you're gonna apologize? In case in case people take you seriously. There you go. Do I have to imagine if every comedian did that? That's a good joke. I'm sorry, by the way. I'm sorry that I did that Jeez, man. I'm sorry. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Can we just not Canadianify the whole world not everyone needs to be Canadian. Oh, like sorry for themselves You mean sorry Baby, I went there. Sorry.    Oh, baby. I went there. Sorry. Sorry. That's exactly what I'm talking about But I hope you can understand my perspective for any future video and instead of starting discourse because something made your blood boil Go and share some love today. That's all I gotta say Wow We love it man. Braggs. Do you want to share some love tonight? No, it's all although I'm taking that love. It's all for me I'm hopping on that love and I'm taking every little drop of it. Hey, I'm perfectly fine with that. Let's do it Let's do it So what do you say instead instead of starting discourse over making your blood boil? What was the second part? We should go out and spread some love What does that even mean? Well, if you use queer response theory there, sorry, sorry, that's exactly what I'm talking about But I hope you can understand my perspective for any future video and instead of starting discourse because something made your blood boil Go and share some love today Jesus If you see something that you're upset with or that offends you or that you think is terrible or bad for the world or an incorrect opinion Just let it be. Just let those bad ideas propagate. Don't counter them with your own instead. Just go talk about happy things like No, no, it wants to share some love.  I was going to say, yeah That's surely what it means. That's not a tip-tation. That's what you're outside And have sex with someone We share some love today. There's four of us here. Let's do it. I don't see why not massive love hashtag I gotta say I'll see you guys next time Steve frosty my frosty my friend. Don't you dare. That's gotta be his normal outro, I think Oh Sean P. You're terrible. Why would you give this guy money? Ben keema Anyone can give anyone money, especially keema lee keema l and radio lizard Low tier content. I mean, this is just one video. So it's so wishy washy and ambiguous and Feeling goody Well, it's clearly made to try and offset What he considers to be the fault in a lot of his critics that are coming to the channel The the common thread that they seem to misunderstand, which is He's not being objective guys Or that he's not presenting things that he feels as a factual thing, but I Feel like that's such a generalized view that you need to actually get to a specific example To be like Uh, see this is the you know saying Nintendo games suck. I'd be like, yeah, that's not you need to be more specific about that You can't just say that and expect people to be like, oh cool Apparently there's a joseph a in his list of patrons Well, really why not right? I don't know they seem to be cut from a similar cloth They come from the same grapevine.  We don't we don't smoke faggots. Yes, you do in a story about that joke guys. Hey Um, he's not he's not back yet. So what we could do is read out a selection of super chat while While we wait and uh, we also have the gay donuts as well That's always a possibility though. I think if he came back to the stream No, let him you told us to spread some love here. We are proof Hey, what are you saying that donuts can't have love? Oh, wait, chase message will make you think otherwise Chase said they're friends. Uh, so I wonder if snowman is aware of joseph annison's position on me I wonder if that'll prevent him from wanting to come in here. I don't know Oh Oh, look at this the first one says happy anniversary professor toss spot. I'm so happy you're on e-fab No, it's very kind of you think it's your anniversary of what?   They sucked.  That's a thing Well, like you could be attracted to another man in a non-sexual way Yeah, it was like that with me and Harvey Weinstein. There was no love day. It was all business No, like you could that's why we have that's why you have friends because you're attracted to other people for non-sexual reasons a lot of the times You're attracted to traits of that person, not the physical part of the person. No, that's different Thank you, CJ Miss you buddy all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. So The point is it's like no one remembers the like the moment they became an atheist, right? It's just like a time frame, but it kind of happens over time and then you just realize it I had a moment when I like like I don't believe in this at all That's the moment that you realize it Well, yeah, but I mean beforehand I did believe in it and then I started doing more and more research And then it came to a point where I was like, I don't believe this at all. Do I But what was that point? Like do you remember like that? I mean, I I mean I I couldn't like nail down a date or a particular thing It was just like a culmination of things and then once it got to a certain point. I was like, I don't believe this So you give up on god to become a fairy?  I'm not a furry. This is a terrible rumor that's circulating around the internet.  It is slander. It is both slander and libel. It's libel And I will not I will not stand for it because I am none of those thing Um, I both Jay in the chat is asking for me to justify or explain friends with benefits So I don't Of course Jay doesn't understand that I think that he's saying that and I don't is it really a controversial thing to say that you can be attracted to people for non-sexual reason I don't think so. I'm curious because As long as you say no homo, it's fine Hold on when you say attracted to someone. Do you mean like attracted to the way they look? No, I think no, I think he just means you want to hang around with somebody be around somebody Yeah Just like liking somebody Yeah, if you're attracted to someone's personality, how is that not liking? Yeah, you'd be and it could be a variety of reasons One of them could be sexual reasons It's very it's very true. It's very true. So The um, the second the second super chat is first donation of the day Hey, so um, no, that's the second of the day actually. Sorry Four hours three We got uh, we're two and a half hours in so, uh, who knows how long this may go We need to get to tonal man pull guy tonal And the vox video Um, somebody said vox just has a slight echo, but I think since that was so long ago. Nobody else has mentioned it I'm sure it's fine. I'm sure you find no worries. Um What crap did I join in on there's probably gonna be a lot of those if this e-fab ends before tomorrow afternoon?   I'm about to leave for work here.  I have not. Um I'll I mean could be interesting counterargument Well, it's the one I cite when people are like what's the oldest favorite film you have Because I I like it a lot and then also it's really old. So Someone said I'm glad facebook invented liking things Who'd win in a fight jarid or there's ninja turtle shit on or wolf after watching the gray Jared, of course I would actually say Jared because I'm like an emotional mess after watching the gray This isn't a puddle of tears while jarid is standing strong with his t-shirt That movie, uh, I loved your fallout 76 video mohler from uh, creamy sheave, of course Molly you should make more videos like that. I like the dog avatar I'm gonna do fallout 77 next. Um, I feel like just next one in the in the line is the smart decision there Um, we need to have a conversation on pastry age of consent laws. That's obviously relevant to um I think once you I think once they're out of the oven If they if they're out of the oven, it's time for shoving. I oh god.   I get I get I I'm buying what they're selling. I'm picking up what they're dropping down if you if you gather the Things that I am communicating from even Francisco. Why is it that vox this shows up and everything gets really gay? Yeah, why is that? We're going to have to go to patreon to see the second half of this stream. Oh This actually is the gayest one. I think we've done. Yeah. Yes. We've done. This is I'll check the I'll check the gay moments there. I think we're up to like 17 gays right now Jesus Is this your normal voice somebody said? yes There's professor toss pots boys me He's an esteemed professor which uh, which university we use were you currently working at? Harvard with a bit of Yale, of course. Yeah on the side casual. Yeah, we pop in there once in a while give them your insight They all pop up on the table and say my captain. Oh captain. Uh, please get rid of this fucker Yeah, then I shoot myself Oh Post that through romance video that is going to be out on uh valentine's day because it's a romantic movie Oh Hey, love y'all. Thanks for always cheer me up with your videos of or efap when depressed really looking forward to wolf's return Also, I'd like to make some royalty free music for rags for free. Obviously. How can I hit you up? uh email Email where can they find it? uh my channel, uh his channel 1 800 Get rags at gmail.com. Yeah. Is that actually your email? Yeah 1 800 get rags Okay No, I'm I'm deadly serious. It's on. It's on my channel. You can check it out. It's on my channel So now I have to go look Why you don't trust me? What's the point of asking me if you Well, I don't know.  It's like a weird grape It depends if you look at it like metaphorically wolf. Gee. It's really more. Oh my god Oh, that actually literally literally is his email.  It's a simple life, but it's an honest life Uh recently got caught up on the regular efap working through the gaming one now watching it work So rip my data Would um Would audio only versions of the efap gaming be pointless Pretty much. Yeah, because you wouldn't understand like what we're laughing at most of the time To be fair two of the other people in the podcast might not well like for the first one since it's all Since I guess it's uh three people from uh their own perspectives You're kind of doing that 66% anyway. Mm-hmm Uh Also, yeah, james moore sent the uh the one about toss pot. You wanted to make sure you knew that Oh, what what's this? Uh, james moore. I assume you recognize the name Yeah, he pops on our chats a few times. He's a very flush donator. Isn't he very kind very generous man Yeah, he must be in the columbian bath salt business like me. Um, can't stay long. I'm writing this during a lecture But I want to say thank you guys for the countless awesome hours. How many tips for those wanting to make long form content? Oh Rescript re-script re-script. Yeah, that would be the fundamental one Be smart Well, the idea is like you'd never set out to make it long you set out for other things and being long is uh, You know the yeah, I think this is generally a it's um A consequence of just kind of how you discuss things and how your thought process is It's not what your goal is. It's just it happens. That's just how it ends up being Oh, snowman gaming is back. All right. Do you want to? Uh, hmm twitter, I suppose Sammy I can get you my uh, my discord number Then um That should be a way to do it. You can spread some love. Yes. All over your face um A couple a couple little funnies on twitter as well. I uh I'll I'll show this one I'm going the loo. Oh god. Oh, no You guys kind of need to have seen uh south park for that one I have seen that episode good shit, man.  That's a jared like an actual jared quote. Yeah, no, I think it is too. Um If you haven't subbed yet go subscribe to jared genesis Uh, oh he said he added me on twitter.  Which one of you? No man gaming There you are I'm here. Yeah. Oh, hello rags Hello What it was uh was my presence requested.  How do I okay? Um Oh god, did he actually make his 1000 He did He made a he made a 1000 video already Well, what can we see we was in his room when it happened smaller? Can we please? Can we please watch it? Oh, we can sure we'll do it after we can save it to the end. Yeah We'll do it after um after snowmen has a pop in I I don't want to watch it yet because I feel like he's gonna do something crazy. I don't want to Hey Yeah, I'm just waiting to get the the um his tag for discord then I'll add him then we'll throw him in You know, I would do a little discussion about um Everything media analysis and then we can jump on to that video. I suppose next because I feel like everybody's gonna want to see it now. Does it seem happy? The video does it seem happy? Oh, I'm not I'm not looking at it. I want to save I want to go into it cold That's fair enough so it can warm up my heart What if we start like crying watching it like we're so happy for our jerry I really am a big softy underneath the coarse rough exterior I could read the rest of the gay doughnuts. Why are we kidding time? Oh, he's yes, he's gonna be I just Oh, it's super chance. I just had him as soon as he accepts Coming in gonna be spooky. Also. Yeah, the chat window will be off for a second while I'm uh I'm glooping my schoops. All right. I will be right back.  A little a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, why did you have to piss? Well, you shouldn't you should well, it's because I I have you guys gonna argue over whether or not you can go pee the rapper rubber Look, I can't let this go. I no, that's a terrible. I literally can No, I mean, yeah, you can but it's not a good idea. You don't have a piss bucket for your Just Why don't we even bring him? What are you? Hello, what would you like to go by? Hey, is it like snowman or is it something else people prefer? Uh, I prefer No, I couldn't think of anything. Yeah I'm brad whatever you can call me whatever you want. Um Uh, that goes back just a long time. I don't know.  You're edgy and you think without a w. It's cool. And then so it just stuck I mean, I had my original name online was um, the first one I ever chose the pokemon one Where I called myself anus because everybody tried to find the funniest name to have professor okra fair to you as Anus That was such a terrible word when we were young you can't say anus Well, and when I very first started I had the capital n at the end and a lowercase s which was bad capital in In a lowercase.   What what do you do if you don't mind me asking is it? Um, I'm I'm a youth minister actually I have a very flexible job. Oh, okay Um, I mean would you like to kick it off? You you saw us rambling on about your video? Yeah, well, I was I was just thinking about some things on my drive back. Um just thinking about it and everything and Uh, at least just to start this off. I guess the first thing that came to my mind was There is kind of two separate definitions of objective that I think people use Or that it's like morphed into the accepted, you know Comment space or when people say I wish he was more objective I think what they're trying to say is I want that person to be without bias But a lot of the times the way that Is like perceived is without opinion Which I think are two different things and they're not good things, you know, I mean Um, what what they'll usually say in response is like what you're describing. It's not objective as well founded as jack and Eric put it or as Joseph Aniston will usually just say well, no your opinion is now turned into a fact instead of an opinion Yeah, which is interesting to say the least because I uh, there's a couple of things I'd like to present to him Which is like, uh, you know like everybody accepting that the world was flat or whatever Let's just say they did at some point in history and one guy was like no no, it's it's a sphere Then one guy goes that's just your opinion. You're wrong. You base it off nothing other. They find out it was true It's like oh so all along he was saying a fact Is that so it's based on how much we know changes the statements actual Label if you will it's kind of like, hmm This seems weird while we advocate that it was always an opinion and what it's based on will basically uh determine You could use the word validity, uh, but I think that a subjective opinion is obviously valid It's just careful using it careful conflating the two, um things like like x is bad because I don't like it versus x is bad because it uh It's filled with all these amazing game breaking glitches or something like that. Yeah, and I see that a lot I see a lot of videos where it's like This game the world just feels so barren or oh the world just you know What but like they don't give like specifics or or sometimes that statement inherently is very subjective anyway, right? So there's not much to go off of to present in a video anyway, which is like Equally that just isn't helping anyone right. It's like you're saying if you're just saying yeah, I just didn't like the game Well, that if you're not going to detail or you're not like if there isn't stuff to really Go off of then it's that's just not good um Yeah, so like the the we have loads of issues with with joseph's video I feel like yours is slightly different in terms of what you're going for here, but his was more the uh Wants to draw a line for like what are you I'm curious What was your take on the fact that he said um like genre is subjective So him saying soma's not a horror game is obviously subjective because genre is subjective Yeah, I don't have much of a dog in the race in terms of one side or the other I I think I agreed with his subjectivity video in that From the side of a creator I definitely like felt for him a lot of A lot of the same stuff I presented But the angle that I did try to go from was a bit more of a Can't we all get a long Angle right I can respect that, you know, you know what I mean rather than a than a A lot of people get very emotive and yeah throw shade at people And it's it it's it's bad But at the same time it is it is a fact of the internet You are going to get people who are going to throw shade and sometimes you just have a bit of a thicker skin Not that I'm saying you're thin skin, but no, I I agree a fact of YouTube and it's shitty It would be nice if we could all hold hands under a wing though as it were and plain nice But it's just not gonna happen. Oh, no, I don't know if people this is just something people probably, uh Joe Rogan has Sam Harrison And it's at 6.3 k viewers which is retarded because it's like he would have Way more than that Yeah, and apparently I was doing the same something's going on with I was about to say there's no way chat is this active with a hundred and three people weird Yeah, because I just saw that too. I thought that was really low All right, so everyone in chat what I need you to do is you someone go first start with one and the next person Do two It will use that to find out how many people are in chat And then all right, tell you what I'm curious. I'm curious if uh, if the view count goes past zero One two eleven twenty eight two three. It's going down. It says 80 now. What if it goes to negatives? I wanted to go to negatives negative one views So yeah, if there's that many people commenting, which is usually like at most 30 of the actual audience, uh, right I'd be surprised. Yeah, it's it's fine.  We haven't said it's because we said faggot Okay, so there seems to be some confusion with my instructions and I thought they were very very Very reasonable instructions apparently we're having some issues keeping an order Also, I just wanted to draw attention j posted a quote from josephata said I want to know if what you thought of it in the video where he said Uh, fuck j wrote it out.  Uh, more people listen to me talk about fallout 4 in one day than most people have listened to in their entire lives What did you think of that quote? Oh, that uh, that was joseph. Yeah I'm sorry. I saved the quote one more time Uh, more people listen to me talk about fallout 4 in one day than most people have listened to in their entire lives I mean I'm waiting for you to go. Well, it might be true though. It's like it doesn't matter if it's true Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah conceded to say maybe um Are you friends with with josephata? Um from a distance, uh, you know No, I've talked to him maybe once or twice you're attracted to him in non physical way I will say I will say he he commented on my video and said good luck Well, he's he got a shit ton of slack for his I know I know his videos and and you'll find loads people reference the peak joseph as uh Somers not a horror game the statement Is is is one of the best examples to sort of talk about this whole problem because it's like how does genre work? It's like well you know genre they wouldn't it wouldn't His argument is that it's subjective and he says that you would call something a horror game if it's scaring you And my argument would be it doesn't matter if it's scared you if you're dealing with something like amnesia It didn't scare you you don't go well now. It's a comedy. You'd be like well. No if you found it funny You know what I mean like um Yeah, someone could argue tlj is a comedy because they couldn't stop laughing at how bad it was I'd be like it's not a comedy even though I don't think it's good And they get into a complicated discussion about how genre works But the idea that he's walking back on saying soma is not a horror game. It's not scary It's like you can't that Non sequester there's a lot of a lot of people would probably put it We get a lot of those Um, yeah, do you have a take on that or well? What's what's weird is I Put before I made my video I put on I like went back and looked at his because when he first made it I was like, oh, yeah, okay Like I definitely agree with I think like his overall message with his subjectivity video And so I but then I went back and looked at it right before I posted mine And what saw all the negative like I mean just insane negative comments And then so I put on twitter I was like, I think a lot of people are gonna hate this video that I have coming up I was like, maybe this was a bad idea Uh, but surprisingly, I think the vast majority of comments on it were really positive Do Do you think people should be allowed to express negative? Sorry their negative opinion. Yeah negative opinion Do you think people should be allowed to voice their negative opinions? Yeah, of course the the hard thing is um I was gonna say this too that you really only get the discourse When it's and when it is a negative thought right if I made a video That was just praising a game and even if other people hated the game They're not gonna be as lashing out to me because I'm just voicing a positive opinion. You know what I mean Why I don't know why you would throw lashing out and discourse into the same boat Uh, yeah, because there's connotations that come