in mind when it comes to continuity design. Of course, we'll move into it more in detail very soon. The third is search engine optimization. So it's not enough to have a great looking website if nobody finds you. So search engine optimization again is a very important investment you make for your website. So make sure that your website is built to be SEO friendly.  So that donors who are looking for causes like yours will find you and end up on your website. The fourth is to streamline your donor journey. So you have a donate button on your website and you probably have a payment gateway. It's not enough. So how do you make sure the donor who ends up on your home page is driven to your donation page and ends up making the donation? So that donor journey has to be streamed and we'll see how. Finally, many nonprofits forget about their institutional donors and partners. So an institutional donor or some prospect, a grant maker, the first thing he might do is log into your website to understand more about you, to see if it's worth partnering with you. So make sure your website is presentable and all the information that donor or a partner looks for is present on your website. So these are some key things that a nonprofit website should have in order to be primed for online fundraising. So I'm going to move quickly through three topics out of the five that we discussed, content design and streamlining the donor journey. So I'll start with content. It's a very extensive topic but we're short on time so I'm trying to make it as concise as possible while not missing out on key points. So the first thing I would say to anybody who's writing content for a website, nonprofit or not, is to keep it simple. The idea is to not to confuse the reader, not to sound very technical and use a jargon that a layman may not understand. Your donors are regular people. They're not from the nonprofit sector. So keep your website content very simple. Somebody has the time to read three paragraphs. So if you have to say something in three paragraphs and if you want to say something in a paragraph, try and say it in a sentence. So keep it simple and short. Use keywords within your content. So we spoke about SEO. So SEO is not an afterthought that you have after building your website. It is something you consider right from the time you plan to build your website. So your website has to be built with SEO practices in mind. So whether it is optimizing your website speed or I won't go in detail into SEO as a topic but since we're talking about content here, make sure that the keywords that you've identified for your website are used within your content. Which means you get an SEO expert to find out what are the keywords people look for for a cause like yours. Let's say you're in education. Then what are the keywords that people search for on Google if they want to donate to an education-based NGO? So make sure those keywords are used within your content in your website. The third I think is the most important point which is stay to your mission clearly. So the moment I end up on an NGO website, I need to understand what their mission is. You don't have, you should not expect me to scroll down to the bottom of your page or open your about page and read. I'm not going to do it. I don't have a lot of time with me as a user. So make sure that your mission is stated upfront. The moment I log into your website, I must know what this NGO is doing. Next, don't just share info with the reader with good storytelling and speak to them in first person. So I'm going to show you an example of a website I have chosen for today as a case study and I will show you how they have implemented all of these points to make it more clear. So next is I think you are an NGO and what the NGO does is it solves problems. So make sure that when a user ends up on your website or a donor ends up on your website, understand your problem solution impact, which means what problem are you solving? What is your solution and what impact have you made so far? These things have to be clearly visible hopefully within your home page and more in detail perhaps within your website. But these things have to be mentioned within your website content. Next, like I said, don't forget the institutional donor. What are they looking for? They're looking for more information about you, who your team is. They want to see how credible you are as an NGO. Who are your past partners? What impact have you made so far? So these three sections, especially on your website, are very important, which a lot of us neglect. We think it's just storytelling where you talk about your history and no, it's not. It has to be a short and crisp and clearly mention who you are, what you have set out to do, how did you start, who are your key stakeholders, what is your vision for the future, etc. Your impact has to be extremely clearly mentioned. If you are in two or three different areas, what is your impact in each of these areas so far? And then the partner with us section, which again a lot of NGO websites neglect. So talk about give your partners a strong reason to partner with you. And if they find the interest to partner with you, then have an interest form within your partner with a section, which they can fill and write to you quickly. So these are some key aspects to keep in mind while building your website content. So moving to website design, before we move to website design, let's go through a website. So this is Charity Waters website. I have been following them now for a few years. I think they've done a great job when it comes to communication on their website. I hope the website, can you confirm? Okay, website, what's the first thing you see? They've stated their mission statement upfront, right? Help bring clean and safe water to every person on the planet. There's no confusion even before you scroll down about what this NGO is up to. And then what is the problem they're solving and what is their solution? Again, you don't have to scroll down too much for it. They say the water crisis is massive, but together we can solve it. So what are they doing when they say together we can solve it? They're involving you. They're speaking to you in first person. Join the spring community of monthly givers to bring clean and safe water to families around the world. That's their solution. So they've done three things. One is state their mission very clearly upfront, talk about the problem solution and the impact they can make with you. There's the donor. So we'll come back to this website again when we talk about design. So how do you create winning design? Again, I would start with saying keep it simple, don't complicate it, don't make have a cluttered website with too many images and find things on your website.  So having a simple website with lots of white space, easy to navigate, is a good design to have. Tell your story visually, which means use visuals, use videos to talk about to visually express what it is that you do, who are the people you serve and how you're making a difference. Then we talk about intuitive design. So what's an intuitive design? Intuitive design is where you guide the user through the by placing the right kind of cues, by placing the right buttons in the right places so that he can navigate through your website the way you would like him to and not miss on anything important that you would like him to see. So we'll look at it again on the Charity Water website. Use infographics. Now, when you talk about impact and the numbers, the best way to share it is to use infographics to use, not only infographics, use all the visual media that's available to you, use animation, use, so use different design elements to tell your story visually. Mobile optimized, we spoke about it before, but while your design has to be mobile optimized and look equally attractive on a mobile device as it would on a desktop. So a lot of websites look great on a desktop on a laptop, but look very cluttered and very difficult to navigate on a mobile device. So make sure that doesn't happen because most of your donors are going to come to your website through a mobile device. So I'm going back to Charity Water. So what you see here is a video clearly showing the impact that they're making clearly showing what the work that they do across the world, clearly showing who their beneficiaries are. So it's actually visually telling you a story about what the NGO does and how they go about doing it. If you look at the design, it's extremely simple. There's lots of white space, not too much text for you to read. Their impact is expressed using infographics. These are infographics where the information is represented using graphics. This is intuitive design simply because they don't want to lose a donor. So whether or not you read anything else on their website, they want to make sure you see the join today, the give ones, give monthly, the donation queues right up front. That's what makes this intuitive design. The one thing you don't want to donor to miss is to donate to you. They want you to know how they're making an impact as you move down. If you are not convinced enough to click on the donate button yet, now they're convincing you by talking about the impact that they're making. They're using stories, visual and verbal. They're using animation to hold your attention to show their impact. They're using a video by the founder of the charity in order to build credibility. So this is how visual storytelling and verbal storytelling can be made use of in a good way on your website. So moving on, which is my streamlining the donor journey. So a lot of NGOs believe that having a donate button and integrating a payment gateway is enough give to you, which is not true. You have to create an experience for the donor within your website. The first way to do it is to not just have a donation link somewhere on your website, but to draw attention to it. So going back to charity water, the first thing you notice here is the donation button. Even as you scroll down the one button that is highlighted here is the donate button. Where you're seeing on the website, it draws your attention to the donation button. Next ask multiple times, not just in the header. So they're not just ask you should not just put a donate link in your header and then start talking about other things throughout your website. Talk about it again and again. Ask throughout your homepage, throughout your website. Let me show you an example of that. So here there is a donation form in your header, in your banner. As you move down, there is a donate button here. Apart from that, there are multiple times where you are asked to get involved. You are asked to donate. This is their monthly donation program. They ask you to join the monthly donation program. So there are multiple cues to donate within the website. The donor goes through your website and is convinced and starts building trust. You have a donate button ready for him there. Then talk to you about the donation landing page, which is actually, if your website is the heart of your online fundraising process, the donation landing page is at the heart of your website's donation process. So how do you make a landing page extremely effective is a very important point to consider if you are seriously looking to raise funds online. So a donation landing page has multiple elements. Don't just say pay now and give a link. It's not. It's an experience that you create for a donor. It's a journey that you take him to be good about giving to you. So how do you do that? There are multiple elements you keep in mind. I'll take the design. It has to be designed well. Content, what is the right thing to tell a donor when he is about to donate? You don't start telling him a story about NGO. You just tell him that, yes, what you're doing is the right thing. You deciding to donate to us is and then the navigation. The navigation has to be again intuitive. It has to be simple to follow. The form that the donor has to fill has to be very simple. You have to have the minimum number of fields, not the 15 fields, your anniversary, you know, etc. Just keep the minimum number of fields that you need for him to make the donation. The payment process has to be quick. You have to yes, for a new donor, there will be questions like how credible is this? How secure is my payment? How much? How is the money I'm giving the NGO going to be used? These are questions that have to be answered on the donation page because you are not there to answer them. Make sure there are no distractions. On your donation page so that he doesn't click and go into another page. So let me show you an example. This is MSX donation page. If you look at this page, there are no buttons at all on this page except that you can click and go to the home page. There are no other buttons here because they don't want to distract the donor. So the only thing they're telling you is help save lives donate now. They're not telling you a story. They're already thanking you for supporting them because they want to make you feel invested in the process. And if you look at the donation process, it's extremely simple. There are very few fields to fill. Everything happens within a scroll. So what you do is you read why it's important to donate. You're told that the donation is 100% tax deductible.  Then you simply fill a few basic fields and you're done. How many NGOs have you seen with this kind of an intuitive donation landing page? I would say very few in India. So and then for and of course, clearly mention options for donation and make sure that there is a precise donation impact associated with each amount. So when you talk about donating, let's say, for example, if you look at charity waters, it says if you donate $40 as a monthly donation, it can give clean water every year. So you know that by giving $40, so it's very important to have precise donation impact mentioned with the donations options. Have the option for recurrent donations open. Not every NGO is ready for it. You need to be a large size NGO or NGO that's growing from mid to large level for you to consider recurrent donations, but have that option open and get ready for it. So that when it is time, you can start working on it. So once when you open your website for online donation, it's important that you of your donors so that when you're ready for monthly donations or recurrent donations, as we call it, you can then come and repeat donors into monthly donors. Following up, so it's not enough to just get somebody to donate on your page and then forget about them. Make sure you follow up with them, send them a thank you mailer, send them your ATG recipe, send them reminders to donate to you again, send them a birthday greeting, keep in touch with your donors, which will help you with retaining them. So donor retention is because retaining a donor is five times less expensive than getting a new donor on board. So these are some key points I wanted to share with you before moving into a Q&A with IPE. I hope that it has been useful and I hope I have been able to clearly articulate them for you. So I I think we can start the Q&A now. I'm sure everyone's waiting. Yeah, I think this was a great session you covered most of the points and I feel that a lot of people underestimate the importance of having a great website and what it can do for you. It is not a standalone one. A great website will add, it complements everything else you do. So yeah, before I you move into the Q&A, I will probably like put on a couple of tips for people who are from the NGO world is see one thing we have to understand is that a donation is not a product or a service. So there is nobody who wakes up one day saying that I want to donate. So the intent to donate is very less and it has to be developed. So that's where NSCO plays a part. There's a lot of keywords that will actually generate and what the website does is it carries that intent to something meaningful. So intent creation is one of the most important factors in the donation process. And as I said, there are various type of fundraising.  So the website carries on your intent into a reality of a donation. I as a fundraiser talks about somebody to have a potential donor on the street or on over the call. The website, what it does is it solidifies the intent says that okay, this is not what I when I met a person, he told about something and this is true. It talks what what you want to tell. When you meet a donor, you might get like five to seven minutes where you cannot convey everything, but you can actually tell and min somebody to go and visit your website. So it triggers that point of giving a donation. So a website plays a critical part in that. So as I said, now, the third important factor is why websites? Why can't we do just face to face fundraising? Or why can't we do just the corporate fundraising? Understand, India has probably touched only six to seven percentage of the capacity of fundraising. We have a long way to go. And previously, there were only seven cities which are very known for fundraising like Bombay, Pune, Chennai, Hyderabad, Bangalore, Kolkata and then why this was a hit at one point was the disposable incomes were very high and the moving population is very high. But as the penetration of technology that has happened, mobile phones are with everyone. People are seeing ads through social media ads. They are seeing content in social media association on websites. So your potential donor is not just lying in your tier one cities and you cannot have fundraising teams in tier two and tier three cities. So your websites enable you to penetrate into the smaller markets where you will see and we are seeing disposable income spiling up. So this will trigger your effort to reduce your return on investment. And this is going to actually give you a boost to your performance in your fundraising and in your donation collections. So these are the main important factors that we should consider why a website, why a good website is needed. Great points. Those are very useful points and like you rightly said the middle class India is growing, disposable income is growing, affordability is growing, access to technology is like never before. So all of these factors work in the favor of online fundraising. Thanks for sharing that I. So is there anything else you would like to share or can I move to the Q&A session? So some of the things that usually people ask me is what is, how can an ideal website look like. You have covered most of the points, make it a less plus plus third one, let the donate button, take these and the piece. We talk about things through infographics. Those are very important. Apart from that two three points I want to highlight is how to make your donation page so easy for the donor. One major part is your payment gateway, your selection of your payment gateway. Your payment gateway should be easy, it should give options, multiple options. So you restrict to credit cards, you are actually filtering out your donors. So now if you look at you have credit cards, you have debit cards, you have your QR codes, you have your UPI payments, give multiple options so that the leakage is not happening. So as I rightly said, right from the time you create intent to come some to make somebody come to the donation page, it's a huge task and losing somebody at that point is a big shame. And because of a donation page problem or a payment gateway. So ensure that you choose the right payment gateway. Your technology support is so strong that a seamless movement from your website to the payment gateway to the banking website and back up. That is absolutely critical. The other part as Mayura said is what happens of the donation. The pandemic has taught us sometimes we will come to a standstill. The world will come to a standstill, your donations will come to a standstill. What will help you survive? Some of the great NGOs which have survived during this pandemic were the ones who were moving into recurring donations and having a good donor database. How did they create it? The way they created is through the donor retention. For retaining your donor, once you acquire your donor, you cannot forget about it. So that is where the second usage of your website comes in. Your website has to be updated. So I'm donating say 1000 rupees per month. Probably I want to know what is happening. So the donor information you collect from the website like the email ID will help me to send constant emails to tell what is happening with the NGO. The phone numbers will help me to connect with them, tell that your payment is due or probably you missed the payment. Would you want to like do it again? So those connections will be easy. I will be able to link them to our social media pages which will assure that okay where I'm donating is actually a genuine site and they are doing something with the money. So which is a great platform for you to collect. The second part is there might be people who might be donating one time and once you start the communications easy for you to go back and tell them that why don't you join our recovery program. You can actually save somebody for a long ability. You can help somebody for a long ability.  These are done by the website, your blogs that comes in your website, the updates that comes in your website. So for me it's a great turn off. If I go to a website I see a content which is updated two years back. That means there's nothing that happened with that NGO after that because I don't speak to anybody regularly. So your content adaptation is a very important factor. In your page, in your website, if there is a page where you can actually go and see what are the work we do? What are the press releases we have done? What are the awards we have won over the night? This is very important for us to tell the people, keep that trust, tell the donors that this is an NGO which is not static. We are constantly moving, improving and changing lives. So your website should be a storytelling model, but not taking away the point that Mayura has said that distraction should not happen at the donation time. The website should reassure them that somebody is coming to you, heard about you, they are coming or they see an ad about you, they click one of the links in social media, they come to the website, they have seen your infographics, they have seen your history, they have seen your awards, they have seen everything. Now they are going to donate. The second part is I'm already a donor, I mean coming back to the website, hey what's happening with my money? So then you go back, you see what are the success stories they have had, what are the recent press release. I'm feeling proud, I gave money to an organization which is making difference in somebody's life every single day. So it's a gift and yeah I think Mayura has like covered the importance of the website almost from every ankle. Yeah, I think we should move on to the questions. Yes, those were very, very important points, some that I had missed that you have mentioned, thank you for that, one of which was making sure your content is updated from time to time and is tells you about what is currently happening with the NGO. That's a very, very important point, thank you for touching on that. So like you said earlier that the best time for online fundraising for NGOs, all the conditions are right but are NGOs actually using online fundraising via their website? Has that transition happened? Do you see it happening? No, I've seen happening with some of the major ones and they are seeing huge results. Some people are worried about the initial investment they are making but I'm saying this is a long-term investment. You should invest in a good website, you should invest in SEO. So SEO and social media marketing, it's like you want to take your vehicle to 150 kilometers and you accelerate the vehicle. So once you start accelerating you have to keep on pressing your accelerator till you reach that 150 kilometers. So you cannot pull your foot in between. If you are doing that, again you're going back to ground zero, you have to start again. So creating a website, keep it highlighted, give enough SEOs, give enough highlights, that's very important. So a lot of smaller NGOs are not thinking or taking it seriously. But that shift should happen right now. So if you talk about the major NGOs, the social media marketing works very well, the 70% of the job is done by a good website. So that is the heart of your, as you rightly said, that's the heart of your donation procedure. So more people should move there. So let's talk about larger NGOs. You said larger NGOs are benefiting from online fundraising which have invested rightly in it. But let's talk about how these NGOs have evolved in the last, I mean NGO websites have evolved in the last five years. So how have they changed and adapted their websites to prime themselves for the online fundraising process? Have you seen major changes in how websites are being built and created? So initially when fundraising started, if you stay, if you look at way back in 2008 to 10 to 12, where your 4Gs were 3Gs and 2Gs and you had, and data plans were expensive, people were relying mostly on tele-fundraising. Even I have run a 150-200 calls in the tele-fundraising unit. But with the intersection of softwares like TrueCaller to exploiting the tele-marketing, I get like 10 calls in a day. So people, the confidence levels have gone down at that time. And with the new data plans coming in, that's where people started, say, taking the website seriously. The initial days of the websites were just to show a page. Okay, we are X, Y, NGO and we have a page and you come here. The effort to guide people there, effort to guide organic traffic, effort to guide intent-based traffic. Even if I meet a fundraiser on the field, that fundraiser is first, they tell that, can you revisit our website?  Only like seven to eight percent people donate on the spot. The rest of them say, I want to go back and check what you guys do. So NGO, large NGOs started taking this seriously. They started improving their content. They're making it attractive. Some of the NGO website are as good as a tech website. It is as good as an e-commerce website. So you have to look at your storytelling as a product. So that is the change larger NGOs are making. They started investing in agencies. They started investing in good PR companies to make this happen. Right. So you're basically saying they've started taking their websites more seriously because if I'm not wrong, online retail fundraising is now either on par or has exceeded tele-marketing or tele-fundraising. Tele-fundraising any day, yes. So as I said before, even you have a fleet on street, you cannot put them across the world, across India. It has to be in few cities. Yeah. So the ROI is going to be very high for this people. So a website with the right penetration can get into anywhere, any place, tier two, tier three cities, age brackets, occupation brackets doesn't matter. Right. So if we have to talk about this from a donor's perspective, what do you think are the five things that a donor will look for in an NGO website before deciding to give you? Okay. So some of the things that as a donor, if I have to look at is, say there is an intent already created by somebody, either it's an SEO or is a social media content or it's a TV ad or it's a fundraiser on the street. So I'm coming to the website to reassure that this is all right. So first for me, it's a clear structure. As you rightly said, it should, in the friend home page, it should show me what you do, what is where the UI should be so good so that my navigation is easy. I should not find trouble in finding the donate button. So the UI is a great problem as a donor. The second part is it should not redirect me out of the website. Right. It's a huge deflection. It's an effort that has put to bring somebody to the website. So he says that go back and see this probably study done by UNICEF or go back and see the study done by some other university. You might redirect that person, that person might never come back to your website. The third thing for me is if I want to know more about it, I would want to know the credibility. Are you showing the right kind of awards? Are you showing the right kind of certifications? Is your website certified to do online donations? For me, that is very important because I don't want to like do something good and later know that, okay, there's a 30,000 which has gone from high enough. So that credibility is very important for me as a donor. The fourth part is acknowledgement. So once I've done the payment, as soon as I do the payment, I get a welcome call or probably I get a welcome message. I get an email from you. How your backend works after that. So great websites. And I've seen young NGOs also moving in this direction is they collaborating their website, they're marrying their website with the great CRM system. So as soon as the payment is made, I get all the details in the packet and as soon as that is done, there's a welcome call going. So it's reassuring as a donor to get a welcome call saying that, sir, we got your donation. Second is your ATG certificate is going out on time. Your data has been captured emails have been going on time. So good follow up. Good follow up. So automation should come into this space because sooner or later from a hundred owner NGO to you move to a hundred million, sorry, $100,000 donor NGO. So that has to be streamlined from the first day. Okay, great. So let's talk about the donation landing page, page on your website as far as fundraising goes. So as an expert, what do you look for in a donation landing page or to call it a great, you know, landing page? By the way, for me, there can be more than one donation landing page where I use it. Okay. So in the website, I cannot go and make changes every day, every week. So it is more like a static page, which generally talks about the NGO, it talks about what we do. And then we take them to the landing page. And that donation page is mostly I might change it once in six months or a year. But there can be seasonal campaigns which are running. So Dhan Utsav is coming right now. So you want to actually run a social media campaign. And for that, probably I will create a donation value of say starting with $5,000. But my usual donation value in the website might be say 500 rupees. But this is a time people want to donate, people want to keep this as Dhan Utsav. It's a a time people want to keep the girl children. So I will, I don't want to cannibalize their donation by redirecting them to the normal page. So I might create a donation page, a landing page specifically for that. Or probably if there's a special campaign, you are right. So COVID was one of the situations. NGOs who were doing environmental issues, people were doing what we call eye related issues. They started campaigns to help the COVID patient because that was the need of the hour. So you cannot change your general website, but you create a story and the landing page which is specific for that particular moment. So landing pages can be multiple. But the strength of the landing page again is less during direction, ease of filling in the form and a strong payment. Got it. So what you're saying is it's not enough to have just one mission-based donation landing page. You must have campaign-based landing pages to maximize donations. Yeah. So if I may use an example, so for example, if you know for an NGO recurring donations are more beneficial. So it will help you, it will reduce your effort of fundraising, reduce the cost of your fundraising. But what happens is when you need a donor on the website, sorry, on the ground or on the street, some people might not relate. They say that I will go to your website and you send me the link. Ideally, in a website, you will have one time donation and a regular given donation. So you might convince somebody for a regular given donation, but when the person goes to the website, he might end up in a one time donation, which might not be the desired result that you wanted. So for that specific cases, you might create a landing page which is only having a regular donation. For the fundraisers or for the online ad, you will send that link, which is taking them directly to the recurring page without redirecting or cannibalizing that to a one time donation. So it is very important that you play that around according to your needs. Got it. Got it. Okay. So you already spoke about having a CRM system integrated with your website in order to store donor data and be able to work with it. But what would you say are some other top integrations or tech integrations you would recommend for an NGO website to maximize online donations and donor retention? So some of the things that you have to look or probably integrate or understand is you have to understand who's coming to your website. You have to have some, you have to have your website analytics. You have to know who is your, what time of the day your donors are coming. What is triggering them to come to your website? Which link have they clicked? Have they come through your Facebook page? Have they come through your SEO? Was that an organic donor? So you should know more about who are the people who are coming to your website. So some of these tools will help you to understand your donor time, what age group they are in. If they are signed up in a Facebook, then you know the age. So understanding your donor through analytics is very important because that's how you invest more after understanding your donors. The other thing is, as I rightly said, you should have payment gateways, which will help you. So integration to a great payment gateway is a must need. Okay. I have felt the trouble that when a donor wanted to donate the payment gateway gave away, they could take the loan. So a bigger payment gateway might have greater bandwidth. You might have a percentage or a couple of percentages more for them, but it will give away because once a donor have a failed payment, very unlikely that person will have, will come back and do it unless you trigger it. Again, that the cost is going up. The other things are, see, if you have infographics ads, there are tools which can give you more infographics, your video tools which will show your story through a video. If you want to gamify your websites, sometimes the problem with websites is you come there, people are not spending enough time in the website. So you don't want these people to leave. So you gamify your website to make them. So those things are important. Okay, got it. So what are some small NGO can attract donors to their website? So I would say start with SEOs. You can control your spends. If you want to spend a little bit, but people shouldn't feel that that's an investment, shouldn't be an investment you should do at the earlier stage. Okay, so investment in a great SEO is a definite investment that you have to do. You have to increase your reach to your donors. So that can be done by probably some social media investments. You say, according to the age groups, so for example, my targeted population is between the age of say 20 to 25, 20 to 30, then my remarketing and marketing will go through Instagram. But say if it's between the age of 27 to say 50, I might concentrate more on Facebook. My last one might be LinkedIn because I have to pay a premium to advertise LinkedIn. So you constantly have to invest and I would say start with an SEO and slowly move to social media marketing based on the returns that you get. So that brings me to my last question, very relevant question that a lot of NGOs have and don't have anybody to answer it for them, which is how does an NGO decide how much and when to invest in marketing to support their online fundraising goals? And how do they set realistic goals? So, Mayura, it's actually a difficult question for a lot of people. I've seen tenured people also get struggled with this question. But I would say you should start investing at an early stage. So I would keep aside a similar amount of investment that I give for my other source of fundraising as well at the initial days to create a great website, invest in an SEO. So those are key elements that we should start from day one. If you're not investing there, start. Second is I usually spend a 10% of my time in doing email marketing and redirecting to the website. So email marketing is a very simple tool which will help you to get the right donor. And I have seen there's good open rates coming with great content. I have seen good click rates. And a series of emails will give you a good donation pattern. So I would say a small NGO or a big NGO, start investing in your online medium because this is going to reduce your effort in fundraising. This will reduce issues at a fundraiser level on the street because you are not taking cash in hand. You will not lose your credibility because it's all going through one area. So I would say if you are investing say 10 lakhs in a year on your fundraising goals, 20 to 30% should go into the website development and maintaining your SEOs from the initial days itself. That's helpful. 20 to 30% into your website and SEO itself apart from your digital marketing. So including the digital marketing or let's say the website is already built and is in place then probably still 20 to 30% including digital marketing. Healthy because right now the world has not come back to the normal. So especially at the times this time I would say to it because if you look at it during the pandemic, the usage of social media websites have gone up. People started spending hours in the social media website. So this is the right time to grab their attention. So right now in those mediums where till the time at least the world gets normal but what can we say that can be the new normal as well. So it will continue to give you revenues. Right and what would you say is a realistic goal to set from your investment because people have very unrealistic goals. They want to invest a thousand rupees and get you know 10,000 rupees back. So I would say investing in website investing in SEOs and investing in social media marketing any digital marketing it's a long-term goal. It's a mid-term or a long-term goal. I invest like two lakhs in my website. I cannot expect by the end of the month I'll meet my ROI. It's a slow progression. It is like you advertising it in multiple. So we don't have time to talk about omni-channel advertising. We don't have time. So but in simple terms you have to be present. People have to see multiple times to reassure that this is a brand. When my phone came out initially nobody knew about it. It's a constant branding that helped me register in my mind there's a brand like this. So we have to continue it you should not stop. If you stop it as I said you have to start from zero again which is again going to be a you might be giving it in the leaking bucket you have to start again from that. So I would say it will stop continue investing even if it's small even as the LIC ad says it doesn't matter you invest 10,000 a month or say 1000 rupees or 100 rupees or not. Keep investing it will give you results. Great thank you that's helpful. So thanks so much for very patiently answering all my questions. I'm going to take up audience questions now I feature and before that I just want to give a shout out to two people here. One is Jaydeep he's my co-organizer for the India chapter. Thanks Jaydeep for joining and there is Siddharth Banerjee who is a London chapter host and he's currently in India and he's joined us so thank you Siddharth for joining us as well. So there are a few questions I'm going to back with the first one. Considering there are so many online fundraising platforms available won't it be expensive to maintain our own donor page in the intro website? Actually Raghavan there's a very valid question again I'm happy to answer this one. Even I thought so why don't we invest in a Keto why don't we invest in Impact Guru. It is like a short term goal you might get the amount. So you might like if you put a page up in Keto and you do your social marketing you might get the amount. The problem here is you might get say five lakhs from that but you will not know who gave that five lakhs okay. You want to know your donors. A lot of these websites will never give away the donor details. They will only give you the amount that you have to work on your cost for. For your NGO to run long term increasing your donor database is that's a prime that is your prime need okay. This is like a political party having followers. You should have your followers so that in long term you have to put less but the money keeps on coming. If I have to do the you have to select the right word it's called unrestricted money okay. Once you invest in somebody they will keep on giving it for a long term. So it is less expensive to just start with something like a fundraising platform but nobody gives anything for free. So there's a saying that if you get something for free you are the product. So I believe in that I invest in places where I can own the data that I work for and that helps me to go on. Absolutely and I think if I have to draw a comparison I think the difference is between raising funds on your own website and on a crowdfunding platform is like a brand having its own showroom to sell versus being in a multi brand showroom. You know you have your Raymond showroom or you want to sell in shopper stock with hundred other brands. So I think it makes a lot of difference in the long run for you to build your own donor base to have your own place where people can come and donate. So Siddharth has asked are you able to share examples of websites which are doing things not to follow. So Siddharth I don't want to do that. I don't want to shame anyone. So I'm sure they will know who they are and do what's required. So Raghavan asks as with other tech soup events this too was very useful. Thanks so much for going. Oh thank you Raghavan. Thanks for that. So I don't think there are any other questions. So and we are also out of time. So I think we can stop here. Thank you all for joining us and thanks so much for making time and very generously sharing all of your experience and you know expertise with us. So thank you so much. I really enjoyed this session. I'm sure everybody did as Raghavan said. So the recording for this on the TechSoup platform tomorrow it will also be shared on all the social media handles and there is another session that Jaydeep is planning for next month. So do check that out on the India chapter page and join. Thanks again. Thanks everyone. See you in the next session. Bye.