Hi everyone, Joe for jazby's casebreaks.com. We did it. We knocked out the jazby's three box high-end mixer Football mixer random team break number two with a $6,000 Super Bowl mixer spot being given away at the end of this break Check out the details of that mixer. It's 130 boxes given away a Super Bowl square for every entry, right? Automatically, and you've got a chance at winning a case of 2021 rookies and stars football A sealed case you can win that and just check out the box list There's there's just a ton of great boxes you can get as well So thanks everyone for doing all the fillers for this thanks to the people bought spots straight up there They are right here. Thank you Appreciate everyone making this happen And all 32 teams are in so let's roll it Let's do the break and then we'll do the randomizer for the giveaway in a different dice Well at the end of the video four or two six times four names and teams one two three four Five and sixth and final time. So this is just for the break Robert down and Derek four to two six times for the teams one two three four and Sixth and final time. All right, so all that looks good Here's how it shakes out All right, so there's the first half of the list over here actually it's a break So I guess I'll read off all the names. I'm so used to doing these fillers Robert with the Broncos Derek with the bills Joel with the Cardinals Gale with the Steelers Joel with the Eagles Brian with the Lions Gale with the Rams And there is a trade window too if you want David with the Giants Joel with the Buccaneers Michael with the Seahawks Robert with the Falcons Kevin with the Patriots and the Panthers Randy with the Texans Jacob with the Dolphins Lee with the Cowboys rich with the Browns Robert with the Ravens Jared with the Niners Michael with the Chiefs Kevin with the Chargers Michael with the Saints Greg with the Colts Brian with the Jet Steve with the Packers Canard with the Vikings rich with the Titans mark with the Bears Derek You got my Raiders Kevin with the Bengals Nathan with the Jaguars and Derek with the Washington Commanders now It's what they've styled themselves All right, so let's alphabetize by a team. We're gonna pause the video when we come back We're gonna see if there's any trades and then we'll have the quick little three box break BRB All right, welcome back folks. No deals were done in this high-end three box break This is pretty high-end. We've got Joe borough opportunities in here, right? This is 2020 We've got the Immaculate Collegiate football And then who knows what could be in that hip parade limited edition box could be anything Well, while we're doing this break nice and absolute sold out excellent So that will be our last two breaks of the night Um, who does everyone have for the Super Bowl? Anyone have any like props that they that they are You know that they really like I've been kind of listening to some podcasts reading some articles and I might what they say Tuesday Yeah, I might and then the next Wednesday or Thursday over the next couple days I'll probably have some official props kind of set up. I was listening to some podcasts today. They Someone had a One guy this is from like the action network. Some of you may know this if you're into that sort of thing had a prop on the An over prop on the bangles punter, I think I'm not sure if I come into those kicker props Michael L has Beckham Odell Beckham over 61 yards likes the over 61 and Cincinnati plus four I am on Cincinnati plus four as well and a little bit on the money line, too Can you buy that Matt gay field goal for the win Oliver? I feel like I yeah, I feel like you can probably find that prop somewhere Maybe a will there be a game-winning field goal prop or something like that This DJ Dallas and Nick Bosa. That's pretty nice Two-color patch and autograph Is that a case it? Out of optic the patch auto But apparently there's value in like kicking props just because that's 19 out of 25 for the Niners Jared Just because those are not as Those markets are not as sharp and a 199 Christian Wilkins AJ Dylan rated rookie hollow I want to Joe Burrow in that version rated rookie hollow For Davies white 299 For Buffalo, that'll be for Derek now the Jared Goff's speckle to 125 There it is. Here's a Joe Burrow the rookies insert Kevin with the bangles There you go, Kev might might grade out nicely Not Jason likes Evan McPherson for the win It's Burr season Daryl Taylor to 299 for the Seahawks Terry McLauren to 79 and a to a Tungva Loa Gale To have a new coach. Let's see if they were thinking of previous administration was thinking about trading to a but let's see What happens with him this upcoming season? Jacob with the Dolphins Where's Aaron? What happens Aaron Rogers? My cart over here. All right Now immaculate collegiate I think if you're watching live I did drop the group break checklist comm checklist in the chat We'll be going by that. All right, so right out of the right off the top There's a nice Tom Brady in his Michigan gear This must be bangles on the checklist because this is 2021.  That's nice. It's helmet right there That's for Atlanta Robert Wolf Robert. We were talking about Kyle Pitts earlier today And just how much how solid of a season he really had for his rookie year Now without Brady in the NFC South are the Falcons a favorite to win the NFC South. Is that crazy talk? Football fans react react to me Oceanside San Diego Encinitas I want to talk sports with you 20 out of 25 Orlando pace Vista Chula Vista Claremont. I want to talk sports with you It's rams Orlando pace Oceanside Encinitas Del Mar There's mac jones nice 16 Oliver get all over knows what i'm doing. Oliver gets the reference Solana beach I want to talk sports with you That's a very deep cut. I don't know. I don't know how many people would actually get that reference Oliver Mac jones patriots Kevin there you go, Kevin and pat firemouth 65 out of 99. Oh, that's why all Yeah, that's why Oliver wants The rams to win Oliver's a Steelers guy this guy's a stealer Oliver's a Steelers guy gale gale has the Steelers So Oliver hates the bangles That he does not want them to win the Super Bowl I get it now And trey sermon nine out of 20 two-color patch and autograph And then up being Eli Mitchell Ended up being the running back with the brighter season, but I think trey sermon was banged up a little bit So maybe next year Jared with the Niners That could be interesting trey sermon Elijah Mitchell in the backfield and then a And then trey lance has the quarterback who also has Has some some wheels Yeah, you run heavy team all right and the final box and this quick quick but high end three box mixer So jared with the Niners got the trey sermon and the last one is a thick card A book card. It's a book. It's for washington. It's antonio gibson And it's 21 out of 25 Oh nice It's got some upside nice three-color patch on book autograph 21 out of 25 and that is for the washington commanders now And that is derrick with the spot that he won all right now One big hit being given away here. You know what that big hit is it's that $6,000 super bowl mixer spot So let's gather everybody's names And do I have some new dice right here? I do so let's gather everybody's names from joel all the way down to derrick and everyone in between new dice new list 31 sad spots only one really happy spot the name on top and the name on top After three times fingers crossed good luck one two and three So again from two down to 32 Very close derrick. No cigar. I appreciate you getting in though, man Oh That's terrible for I mean For everybody. Thank you for trying There'll be other opportunities So if you feel like trying again go for it Hey, and the top name though is going to be very happy because you want you just won yourself a $6,000 super bowl mixer spot Which is an automatic super bowl square Chance to win a case of 2021 panini rookies and stars And then whatever you get in the mixer itself crazy canard bolt With the spot that that he won in the filler and limited six after three times. I did it right Yeah, after three times you've just won yourself a $6,000 super bowl mixer spot 130 boxes Thanks for trying. Thanks for getting in. Congrats again. I'm joe. I'll see you next time for the next one. Bye. Bye


Agrati Shukla, who has worked with the Zee News, she says that the death was very well deserved, that the murder was okay. They justify these murders. Voices that speak up. Voices that attack. Communalism. The right wing. The establishment are in danger. You know, it's disheartening. It's not just disheartening. It's infuriating. I'm here because I am angry, right? Will something productive come from that anger? I hope so. The last three years, every single day, there has been a heinous incident.  People who are weak, people who are cowards.


Great. Well, thank you very much and welcome everyone to today's CCC OER presentation on open educational practices and how they support student-centered course design and accessibility. This is a topic of interest to me and I'm very happy to be here today sharing the stage with our presenters. If you're not familiar, CCC OER is Community College Consortium for Open Educational Resources and is an organization that has been instrumental in helping lead the expansion of open educational resources, open practices, and open sharing, not only among community colleges in the United States, but also among institutions worldwide. And I am very happy today to have our two guest speakers who are going to be discussing different ways that we can use universal design and open educational practices to help with accessibility issues. Once we have opportunity for our presenters to share their information, we will certainly have opportunities for you all to ask questions. So please at any point in time feel free to enter questions in the chat and we will get to those questions as best we can. Today, our presenters include Tara Buñac who is the senior instructional designer at the University of Pacific and we also have Suzanne Joachim who is the OER coordinator and biology faculty member at Butte Community College. As we discuss these issues, just keep in mind that this is something that fits very well with the mission of the Community College Consortium for Open Educational Resources as we do seek to expand awareness and access to high quality OER and support faculty choice as well as improve student success. And there are lots of institutions who are active members of CCCOER. Hopefully many of you are members of such institutions. If not, I would encourage you to look more closely at CCCOER and what the organization is able to offer. But you can see that we have quite a large footprint throughout the United States and our footprint is growing regularly. And so every time there is one of these webinars, it seems that there is a new pin on the map of the United States and that's something that we always like to see. So now I would like to bring in our speakers so that we can get right down into the topic of how open educational practices support student-centered course design and accessibility. And I'm going to now turn this over to Tara. Thank you very much, Tara. Thank you, President. My name is Tara Buñac. As you mentioned, I have seen your instructional designer here at University of the Pacific in Stockton, California. We have three different campuses of the university. It's Stockton, San Francisco, and Sacramento. I support all three campuses, but I am also a faculty member. I was teaching educational statistics, you know, so graduate level courses last semester. And I also support ADA and OER initiatives across the university. And Suzanne, did you... Sure, I can introduce myself. Suzanne Joaquin from Butte Community College in Northern California. I am the OER coordinator here and in my role as biology faculty, I've designed, I think something near doing 20-some courses that have both been online, on-site, at all different levels. And so that's kind of part of where my piece is coming from is how I've designed those in relation to some of the work I've done with equity and accessibility. Thanks, Tara. Thanks, Suzanne. I'm going straight into my presentation here. So open educational practice for accessibility. So as an overview, go over what some of the challenges were, the accessibility issues that I encountered, why an OER approach actually ended up solving the issues, and how it helped to transition failure into success. So the challenge. I was, as I mentioned, teaching a graduate level doctoral course in educational statistics, you know, so those of you that have an education background probably took this course at some time. But it's very intense, it's a highly visual course, but it needed to be delivered to a student who is blind. The course was an independent study format, so it's hybrid modality, very limited, in-person format, less than two months before the semester. And although the existing textbook was good quality, I found out in July I would be teaching this course and it wouldn't be able to be converted into a accessible format until October. The course was going to start in August, and so that was simply not going to work. Even if that it could be converted, it wouldn't necessarily convert it in a way that was truly accessible to that student. So decided to go with a different approach. So for that, the initiative needed to make sure that I met the same objectives at the same level as other students, make sure that the materials are easily modifiable on the fly because I had a very short timeline, so some of those things wouldn't necessarily be fully implemented and ready to go day one. I needed to make sure that there was immediate access to the content and non-visuals for everything visual. I'll explain a little bit about why I specifically say non-visual as opposed to a specific format there. And the big challenge was this was a hybrid course. We met in-person only once per month. That meant that a lot of materials had to be created beforehand and I didn't have a lot of time to be able to do trial and error, so I had to be able to adapt right away. So I started with the OpenStack statistics book. If you're really familiar with OpenStack, this one's been around for a while. It's a good quality book and it has some great features. So there's a lot of different formats for it. It aligns to all the low-level objectives that were in this graduate statistics course. Lots of examples. It's really accessible. The creative commons license allows for a lot of different modifications and it has a lot of different materials with it. But this was, you know, it's an introductory statistics book. It was very low-level for the class that I was teaching. It's not education-specific, so there's some topics that are missing. It doesn't include SPSS whereas, you know, graduate-level statistics course is going to include some SPSS. It didn't have the comprehensive data files that we needed to look at and it was a very visual focus. So it's a very good book. But there's this challenge of how do we take all of this visual content and make it not visual? So before the class, I went through and I modified all of the materials to make sure that they were in multiple digital formats. I included a lot of different media, so taking and finding YouTube videos, identifying some critical visuals, so what visuals we're going to need to be converted into something else. And also looking at how it might modify across the senses. So I think often when we think about modifying materials that we find in open educational resources, we think of keeping it within that format. We change the visual into a different visual. We change the colors. Or we change the text to have wording that's more like what we would say if we were writing it. But it's very easy to convert where we are between the senses. So I'll show some examples of what I did there. And also I made sure to do a lot of testing. So if you are doing work in accessibility, if you're doing accessibility design, so whether you are designers, but if you are creating materials, getting NVDA, which is a freely available screen reader, is really valuable. It can give you a really good idea of what the open educational resource that you're working with actually sounds like to somebody who's using a screen reader. And that is a, it can be a really life-changing experience when you listen to your materials using a screen reader. Also a lot of hands-on testing. So I tested materials. I actually tested with other people that, you know, whoever I could get to stand still. And, you know, just getting an idea of a wide range of different materials. So kind of the basic principles behind universal design, which will be talked about in the, in Suzanne's presentation. So digital materials are most obvious. I made all of the materials. So all of the content into canvas pages. I also did a PDF format with a table of contents and an MS word document with the table of contents. Once I had the materials in one format, it was very easy to switch between them. And it ended up being a very, very advantageous approach because I could actually provide the materials in a format that the student could interact with most, most engagingly. And it allowed for changing things a little bit easier. So some of the other materials. So sample problems. So these came from the, so this sample problem came from the OpenStacks statistics book. I also, you know, found some sample problems on other open educational resources across, that are available throughout the internet. I also found a number of different YouTube videos, statistics tutorials, really some good materials out there. There's one of the advantages of so many people struggling with statistics is that there are so many different tutorials people have made about it. So this was, you know, an advantage for this. I have also, you know, Braille noted there. One of the big challenges with this was, okay, we can convert open educational resources to Braille. There's no problem doing that because we're, we have the licensing that allows us to change formats, to revise these materials. But the problem is it takes, it can take a while to get things converted into Braille. Also, not all students who are blind actually can read Braille. There's actually a very significant portion of the students who are blind who don't read Braille. And even if they do read Braille, they don't all read the same form of Braille. Before I'd started on this process, I didn't necessarily realize exactly how many different types of Braille there are or the challenges with the different languages and how you actually convert mathematical concepts into Braille. So it's, that was, that was a bit challenging. So we did make some materials that were in Braille, but they ended up not being very useful because it took so long and it was, it wasn't easy to modify on the fly. Also made some other tactile materials. So for a tactile material, I would take a basic OER that I found. So some materials that were either from the open stacks book, other open educational materials that were out there, examples and samples that people provided of statistical concepts, and then I would convert them into some sort of three dimensional representation. So the example that I have on the screen is a sheet of cardboard with puff paint. So if you are familiar with the old 80s puff paint, it was used on t-shirts and sweatshirts to make all sorts of different designs. Some of it was, you know, glitter glue and different things, but it provides a raised surface so that you can easily distinguish the three-dimensional object. I used that in combination with pretty much everything that I could possibly find at a craft store. So I could actually start with any sort of OER and I could convert it into something three-dimensional very quickly. The puff paint unfortunately takes a little while to dry, so that required a little bit more preparation than some of the other materials. Some of the other things that I used were sticky foam. So there's foam that has a sticky backing. I used sequins. I used pipe cleaners. I used glue. I used all sorts of different things to try and test it out. And that's actually kind of an interesting way of taking OER and actually putting it into the physical realm because we always think about OER as being just digital. And a lot of students do need that physical, even if it's, you know, just a printout or or other things. Also having students create these materials. So I did have the student actually create some of the some materials that I can't share those ones with you. But the student was able to actually create some of these three-dimensional materials and then check the work. So some of these, you know, it's a very good approach I think also for students in general is, you know, how do you actually physicalize these concepts throughout, including relevant real world examples. So this is something that you hear throughout the literature and throughout pedagogical approaches is how do we make this something that is targeted toward the student? Make choosing real world examples that are actually relevant to the to the students. And that's where open educational resources really, really shine. You can pull in all sorts of different examples from from the research from in this case an area that the student was interested in. You can pull in either, you know, real data or hypotheticals. The framework for this case study on on guide dogs is based off of a, you know, the actual time it takes to train a guide dog and then how long they actually have for working life. And these were, you know, this was a scenario that was suggested by the student and then I was able to expand on find some of the data that actually went behind it and create a some some data on some hypothetical data of what what a study might actually look like. This is these types of things. It took a very short period of time for me to make them because the data's out there and it made it so much more engaging for the student. It made a lot more interesting than just having the same statistics examples over and over which is, you know, something that is a challenge within within the statistics field is once you get particularly into educational statistics we do lots and lots and lots of examples of exam scores and that gets old. So just having a little bit of a variety. Although, you know, things ended up being very successful overall. At the start it was not fully technically fully accessible. Some of the formatting that, you know, I'd initially done on my materials just it was technically accessible, passed all the accessibility checks and things but when it came to what the student could actually use it wasn't there were some issues there. They were easy to fix but because I was working with open educational resources I was actually able to fix them as opposed to having to figure out some way to get the student to work around it. One of the challenges I had was, you know, there was just too many choices because I had created so many different formats of things in preparation. Having that testing at the beginning to kind of work the student through the different choices and have an engage with the different materials helped to select what types of things were most beneficial and then able to pair those down for the future weeks in the course. Also I didn't have enough real data when I first started the course in some ways that was beneficial and that allowed me to bring in more of the real data that was relevant for the student but it's something that I'd want to make sure and have it to start in the future. Some changes I'd make so make I made the actual the materials actually accessible so streamlining including lots of relevant open data sets so that's something that we also when we think about open educational resources we're often thinking about just the textbook it was really important to also have open data for this course you know this educational statistics course it's high level course we want to actually use real data sets that are actually out there in the world that have the real issues that you encounter with those data sets. Some of the lessons learned essentially I was transitioning from going from universal design so having lots and lots of different options and and directions that a student could go and select to more of a human-centered design so making it a little bit more manageable for a student to actually navigate that universal design content making sure the materials were flexible and adaptable and also making sure that I was flexible and adaptable I had to change how I was approaching things I had to change which technologies I was using how I was using them but it was something that was very very helpful to to be able to change across the the time also to be able to accept that sometimes when you try out these new materials they're not going to work there were certain of the materials that I tried out that absolutely did not work there were certain of the OER that I you know converted over that just were more confusing than helpful learning from that embracing it and being willing to change it makes it so that you can really get the most out of implementing OER also it just was very very easy to include student research interests and you know just interests in general and including that student content and that student generated ideas in the generation of OER and we'll be looking a little bit more at questions near the end but I have my information my contact information up here on the on the powerpoint at tbunagatpacific.edu with that I'll turn things over to Suzanne. All right thanks Tara. Let me just share my screen. Okay all right so the this this piece ties in with what Tara was just talking about in that a course that begins with universal design gives some options for how to adapt pretty easily and so what I'm going to look at is how you can use open content and open pedagogy as a way to build courses that are focused on universal design. A bit of a background on what the concept of universal design for learning is it consists of three basic ideas one is giving students choices and how they learn the information so multiple means of representation giving students multiple means of expression and action is giving them options in how they demonstrate their knowledge and then multiple means of engagement is giving students options in how they interact with the information and the reason that this is really useful is that there there is no such thing as an average or typical student right so the idea here is giving students the options to learn in whatever way works best for them and when I say this it often feels like um this is just going to be mass chaos because there's so many options and so many different things going on and so I want to start with just a kind of outline of what does not change so where there are no options and what there's not options about is what the students are learning so the learning objectives for the course those don't change and we don't change the rigor of the course so this is not about making the course easier the idea being that the students are going to get to the same place in the end it's just how they get there that's the options that they have so let's start with multiple means of representation this is um this is something that I came to a few years ago when I was trying to decide which textbook to use in my course and so I asked students to to review a bunch of different books and um and after all of that input I found that there was not a single textbook that was kind of the winner of the lot different students like different books for different reasons they really like the examples or other students really hated the examples of the same book and it started helping me realize that there was no best book for all of this and oftentimes the book that I thought was best like the one that I was really invested in came out somewhere near the middle so I realized okay maybe I'm I'm not the ultimate arbiter of what is going to work best for each individual student and also I was at that point participating in the writing of one of the early OERs for biology through Carnegie Mellon's Open Learning Institute and we did a test in one of my classes where we gave students options of different book of their book versus the traditional book and looked at how which one students likes and how they did in the course and what we found is again students varied in what they liked and why they liked it and what was really interesting to me as students over the years I've kind of continued that survey have been very intentional in the book they choose and why they choose it so it's actually kind of surprising how well thought through students are when they when they choose what resources they use so this is a slide showing a couple of the different examples that I use in my course to help explain the process of protein synthesis it's one of the topics we cover and you can see in the upper left is a paragraph from one of the open textbooks down below that is an interactive piece from a different open resource there's images that I found and again these are all open images that I bring into the course there's videos these are mostly on YouTube but some of them are also truly open and all sorts of other ways that students can learn the information and so what I do is I create a list of all of the resources everything from the textbook to kind of interactive and written links you can see here Khan Academy is a big favorite for students and YouTube videos and so they get this long list of all the different options they have and the question I always get at this point is is that confusing to students because it's it's this long list and they have to pick and the reason it's not confusing is because I also give them along with that on the right side of the screen a very clear list of what they have to learn so this is it's got all the terminology it's got everything they need and I tell them that's what you're focusing on the resources are just how you're going to find the answers to those things and one of the reasons that I find this has been really helpful apart from just giving students the options of how they want to learn is that it really starts teaching them a little bit about information literacy so what I want to train students in is not so much you know learn everything in chapter three it's here's a scientific question that you have where can you go to find good answers because my goal for for this course and this is a general education course my goal is to help students know that in the future if they have you know something that they're talking about with their doctor if there's something they're voting on that they know where they can go to get good information so I'm really focused on information literacy and as far as if this is confusing to students I asked them I survey my students all the time every week because this is generally in an online class is what I teach and for for the most part out of a hundred students I only get one or two students that are confused by this sort of setup and for those students I tell them that the very first link in the list that is the textbook so that's the one I would have picked if I was to pick just one textbook and at that point they get it so they I said ignore all the other links and they're they're good with that but for the other students when I asked them what they've chosen they're they're again focusing on you know I they like videos because of whatever are they like interactives and so they really appreciate the option to find things that work well for them so that's multiple means of representation the next is multiple means of action and expression and this is all about giving student options in how they demonstrate what they know now in the box just kind of for well let me back up one of the concepts that we cover in our course is chemistry so all the different chemicals of life and generally this the structure of this lecture is there's four broad groups of chemicals examples of each and we talk about how the how the examples fit into the broad group the terms that I would use in the lecture are all over all on the left side there and on the right in the box is kind of how I used to test this and this was um this was one of my favorite test questions because it really does require uh some application and analysis you know so it's asking students to compare two different chemicals and look at the comparison between these four groupings and identify which grouping is different um so it's a brilliant question if I do say so myself and it gave me lots of great data because the A students would get it right the the students that were struggling would not get it right and so I thought it was all as well the problem and this came came up a few years in is I was explaining the answer to the student and um student said well what but what does that dash mean like what is that little slope line mean is it are you dividing the chemicals right and I realized that what this was really testing is their understanding of that framework of question right so those of us that um those of us that have taken a lot of SAT tests are kind of familiar with what that design of question means but the student it just didn't it didn't register as anything that made any sense at all so I thought all right well what I really want to know is do they know how these things are grouped and do they know what each of these things is and so why not just put that back on them and say all right you show me that you know how these things are grouped and what they are and that's that's kind of the extent of my instructions um I tell them you know that's that's what I want to know how you show me is up to you and the students have come up with all sorts of really great examples of how they can demonstrate that knowledge um so sorry I'm looking at the chat the answer is um is is c because it's a example of not a smaller and larger all right um so the different ways that students have come up with with uh to demonstrate this knowledge you can see here up in the right hand is a a mind map so here's the large group here's a smaller grouping here are all the groups within that smaller group and this is just a corner of it and you can see that they've also defined the terms to show me what each of these terms means up in the upper left is more of an outline form but again they can it shows that these are the smaller groups within the larger group of carbohydrate they've defined everything um flashcards are something that students really like and so a lot of times I'll get pictures of flashcards or they might show a table the bottom right corner is an online flashcard building system and so one of the things that I encourage students to do is use online tools to help them learn this content and the hope is that at the at the end of this course they've not only learned biology but they've also learned study tools that they can carry on with them and I get that comment a lot that giving them the option of these online tools has been really helpful and of course um the course uh this question in the chat is what is the level of this course it's a GE intro biology course for people that are not biologists and have never had a biology class so that's kind of the level that this is for so one of the really nice things about um open resources but also the the you know the internet in general and all the free resources available is that there's a lot of really wonderful tools that you can use for a variety of different levels of of assessment the downside is there's a ton of tools and so I was getting really stuck in figuring out what is the best line mapping tool what is the best flashcard building tool and so on um and so I I built a website you can see the link up in the upper right where I'm just for my own purposes putting in all the links to the different types of tools that I like and I'm hoping that um that so on this website also I've included some some rating tools I'm hoping that as we all kind of look at these if folks like some of them they can rate them so I know and that way we can start sorting educational tools that we as educators like better or or lesser um so in in response to the blooms taxonomy pyramid I didn't create that um so it's down at the bottom the citation here it is really pretty no I wish I had it's really nicely done so yeah so that that is multiple means of action and expression make sure I haven't missed anything hold on that's it all right multiple means of engagement so this is all about um giving students different ways to to interact with the material kind of with the framework of um interest level so finding different ways to motivate students because not all students are motivated by by grades or by you know other other things so giving them those options and there's a couple of different ways to do this this part really leans more on um open pedagogy rather than just open resources so the the past two pieces the reason all of that is possible is because there's all these open resources and free resources online and that's really helpful one of the the best ways to engage students is to bring in the concepts of open pedagogy where they can start creating learning tools so not just absorbing knowledge but actually creating resources which is a really empowering things for students um and so one of the simple ways to do that is just with a review of resources so in my course I have that long list of learning resources that that I showed you earlier and one of the things I would like to do I haven't quite gotten here yet because I haven't found the right tool for that job is to have students evaluate those different resources so right now I'm having them do that in a discussion in in canvas in the learning management system but I'd like to build that up but the idea is they're actually invested in the list of resources because they can talk about you know which resource they like better what it's missing where they found that missing piece of information and so right now we're doing that in the discussion format and it's working quite well on the screen what I have here is some other formats that I've been playing with one is you know the google has the the plus one where you can start um increasing you know showing which ones are students like better or there's various online tools for rating and ranking systems the next approach to getting students excited about material is what I call community service and this came about because a lot of my students were looking up answers on things like gahoo answers and some of the other sites and we're coming back with uniquely bizarre answers it's really the best I can describe it because these sites you know anyone can answer it and there's all sorts it's all over the map as far as if they're going to come back with with any reasonable sort of answer and so I thought well why not have students add to these sites and so that's one of the assignments is go on to one of these sites find a question and answer it um and what what's really nice about this again it's all about empowering students to be kind of the masters of their own learning they're not just passively learning things they're actually adding to to the external knowledge base doesn't have to be just answering questions so a lot of my assignments have students creating things creating images creating tutorials creating whatever it might be and I encourage them to share that out on sites like Wikimedia Commons or some others now for this piece I I don't require it because I don't I don't think it's fair necessarily to require students to share out things that they've made if they don't want to but I do encourage it and for the most part students really do want to share what they've what they've created they feel more invested in what they've created and they feel they feel proud especially when I call them out individually to say you know you've created this really beautiful thing would you consider sharing it with the world so that other people can also benefit and I explained to them a little bit about licensing and that their name will always be associated with this resource and and that gives you know gives them a chance to learn a little bit more about open as a concept even though it's not biology I do think it's important so that is a really brief foray into all the different ways that we can give students options in their learning and the basic the basic kind of take-home message with this is it's really all about thinking about how how different students are and how how varied in approach and interests and creating a course that allows them to find their way into the content that's kind of the the main message there and I think we have time for for Q&A Preston yes if you wouldn't mind allowing me to share my screen for a moment we will have plenty of time for some Q&A sorry so thank you very much Tara and Suzanne I really appreciate that before we do have questions I just want to briefly mention that the open education conference the global conference is coming up in a couple of weeks and I I'm looking forward to seeing some of you there hopefully the open at 18 conference is going to be held in October this year and it is going to be in in New York overlooking the beautiful Niagara Falls and hopefully some folks will be able to attend that conference as well there's a lot more information on the CCC OER website under get involved where you can find some of these other informations to these conferences and events that are happening and please do continue to stay in touch through the email service that is offered and the URL for that is listed on this page and lots more information is available at the ccc oer.org website our next webinar is on May 9th and that webinar will discuss the importance of student collaboration and OER projects Brian Weston from College of the Canyons will be presenting and hopefully you all will be able to register and attend the upcoming session and now without further ado I would love to open this up and get some questions from the audience if anyone would like to present any questions in the chat please feel free to do so and we would love to get to some of these actually and I maybe I'll just jump in because I see some of the questions in the chat as far as adding the the Learning Aids website to your library guide that would be awesome I would really appreciate kind of getting this out there so that that folks can start helping me build it to be as useful as possible and there was a great question about assessment and that the question is do we use rubrics anteri you can answer as well do we use rubrics to assess learning it seems like individualized learning would make it difficult and how do we manage consistency in assessment so yeah the assessment is an entirely different approach when you're using this kind of demonstration of knowledge one of the uh how shall I say so in some ways it's a lot easier and what's what's easier about it is I can get a holistic sense of what students know so on a multiple choice test right you grade them on well I guess that's the easiest but I never really quite felt like I got a full handle on what students actually knew with these types of assignments I I have a better grasp of what they what they can show me and what's been really interesting as as far as for me as an instructor is I'm also learning a lot about what they don't know which has been super eye-opening so I'm I'm seeing some misconceptions and confusions that I'd never seen before because the the traditional type of testing doesn't allow enough entry in to kind of the realm of of where students may be a bit gray so it's been it's been really helpful as far as building in those teachable moments but as far as the assessment it's also I do use a rubric and it's pretty linear it it asks you know did they define everything correctly and did they group everything correctly so it's not that hard to grade yeah I I would uh from that because I actually I used the same rubrics as uh had been used in the course previously so that actually helped to ensure that the content and materials was still getting to that same meaning the objectives in the same way the the rubrics and the guides that we were using did not actually specify what the format of that product needed to be in what it looked needed to look like and and and be like it needed to be out of professional quality and use the appropriate wording and things that that we would expect in a statistics course but nothing in it actually specified that it had to be something that was in a in writing or versus oral or had had to be done in one particular way or had to be applied to one particular type of statistical data so that's it's kind of liberating that that was able to actually use the same rubrics in the same way and be able to show that the student was meeting the same goals just doing it through different modes of delivery and using different data okay great Tara there is a question in the chat that is directed specifically to you about how you provide accessibility for math components such as Greek letters and and lookup tables do you have any insights to that that was the hugest challenge of this entire thing and that converting all of the text and explanations definitions and content that was very easy compared to converting the math making it into something that was accessible the there's actually a fair amount of interesting research out there on there's a really excellent article I read on teaching students who are blind in statistics and this is you know obviously the the big challenge and some of the things that I did was I included the graphics just as you would encounter it in the literature along with a full explanation of what that Greek letter meant so for example including the actual x bar and then including an explanation that actually had x bar written out and then you know in words fully written out and an explanation of what it would look like and be like for somebody who is cited so that the student could connect once you know when they're reading the literature what they hear in the screen reader to what they actually what it actually means and be able to use it so that was it was it was hard to find something that was going to to work best most of the the the Greek letters and different and equations lookup tables and things I actually converted into that physical format because it was just it's very hard to navigate those types of things with a screen reader some of the lookup tables it was trying to determine whether what was the essential lookup table so what things we the student actually really needed to be able to pull from and what things somebody in statistics would use a you know a search so limiting it down to what is actually truly essential and you know also providing excerpts from those tables where possible so that was it was it was a lot of trial and error on that that was probably the that was a lot of time involved yeah so this is Preston and I have a question for both of you actually and it's really just about both of you have undertaken some very interesting work and I wonder if you are seeing any sort of uptake in and what you have done from others at your institution you know focusing on what you've done Tara with with accessibility particularly you know for visually impaired student and and how you've involved other students and with Suzanne and and the instructional design process that that you have in place is that something that others are following at your institutions I can I can start I so we're just starting to have those discussions here at butte it's it's a different way to approach classes and so I've done presentations and a lot of folks have come to those and they seem interested as far as redesigning their courses that's going to take some time but what I have seen increases of is instructors that are altering assignments to give students more choices and how they they complete those assignments and I think that's a really good entry into this because it's the simplest process right so you have your assignment and you can kind of open it up and give students the options and how they want to to answer it as far as the giving students the options of different ways to learn knowledge instructors are also starting to get into that and I think a really great way to enter into that piece of it is we all have I think a list of resources that we use to help students learn the information right it's kind of these ancillary videos and extra things and it becomes really just a matter of thinking about making those extra things a part of the course and maybe a focus of the course rather than the textbook and then there's ancillaries so it's a slow shift yeah it is I've seen that happening with a number of instructors yeah we've had a lot of different changes regarding both open educational resources and accessibility in the in the combination of the two we have we're going to be entering our second year of a OER project here at University of the Pacific so we had a co-order faculty who converted all of the courses to open educational resources and then we'll be doing that again for the next next school year and part of that has been inclusion of accessibility from day one within that that context and we also have I work in our Center for Teaching and Learning here at University of the Pacific and we you know provide well we provide workshops on making materials more accessible we made sure that our learning management system includes some accessibility checker tools just you know providing a lot of things to make it so that it's a lot easier for for faculty to make things accessible and also so that they can see how the the OER might help to implement that and and also giving them options for universal design so we've used a little bit of OER sometimes in courses as a supplement so not just as a replacement for the textbook but as an alternative to the textbook so if students are not quite getting it with the textbook that's provided they can go back and look at the the OER also for looking at the more simplified topics you know so if they're in an advanced engineering course and they need to look back at their certain other math courses or something then we've make sure and include those OER the faculty are really interested in that aspect of OER that's great I know that accessibility sometimes strikes fear in folks just because they know there are there's you know legal a background that has set up a lot of these things but the reality is it should be treated as an equity issue as with any other student and and getting past that initial fear I think there's some really creative and important things that can be done and and and I think you've demonstrated that with with your work in your class and I appreciate that and I think in terms of the instructional design process that that Suzanne showcased I think that that is very useful for anyone and I know that that's being that I have touched on both of those areas myself I'm very happy to see these types of things being presented I would certainly like to open up and and and invite any other questions from folks that you may have for Terror Suzanne at this time I just also like to note that Barbara gave a link for the statistics and math symbols and that's actually where I started with the explanations for converting the the the text the English phrases into mathematics and mathematics back to English so that's that's a really good source that she linked in the chat yes thank thank you for sharing that Barbara so I think your presentations were were so thorough and insightful that there's not a lot of uncertainty among our audience with additional questions other than a lot of accolades and thank yous for both of you doing such a tremendous job yeah I think one thing is that these types of things tend to percolate for a while for people so I know that our contact information is up on the screen but yes I know that I'd be very welcoming of any questions people may have I know that once you actually start getting into this there's always things that surprise you about you know making the materials accessible and doing yeah a checks and things like that so I welcome any questions people have yeah I'll I'll second that I am more than happy to to talk about any of these ideas with with folks well thank you both and for for those of you who have joined us there will be a recording that will be posted within the next 48 hours of this session so I would encourage you to share this with your colleagues and invite others to visit the CCC OER website and check out a recording of this session if they were not able to attend and I look forward to seeing you all at future CCC OER webinars and again I would like to thank both of you Tara and Suzanne for your presentations today they were very insightful and I appreciate it very much thank you


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Thank you very much, Fabio Pilaran-Cosiangel. Thank you very much for participating in this table, discussion table. And also, I think it's this very interesting discussion entitled One Side Doesn't Fit All, How Personalized Nutrition and Microbiome Caught in Nutrition Interventions. So just to break the ice, Fabio, we're going to start with a round of questions to put the context of stands for health. In your presentation, Fabio, you just gave a very nice overview about the importance of nutrition in obesity and other weights. What are the current trends now? And what is the role of personalized nutrition to do with this terrible obesity and other weights? Yes, thank you for the question. In the last three years, our attention was focused on COVID-19 pandemic. But we know that also in this year, obesity was the first cause of disability and death also in Europe. And the increase of obesity is higher in richer countries of Europe, of North America, and Oceania, in particular. Two tiers of older, one in three children, are in this condition of overweight and obesity. We know that socioeconomic status plays an important role in this condition. In fact, family with a low socioeconomic level are at high risk of developing overweight and obesity. And low and medium income countries are now facing with the double burden of malnutrition. And so they have specifically also in the same family, we can have subject in under nutrition and subject in a condition of overweight at high risk of developing non-communicable disease. In the last three decades, nutrition or guidelines try to give advice to solve this problem, saying this thing from healthy food versus non-healthy food. But these kind of strategies often fail it. In fact, the rise of obesity is still ongoing. But on the contrary, personalizing nutrition may be the good choice. In fact, recent evidence showed that particularly taking account our individual genomics and, of course, gut microbiota give important results in preventing and treating overweight obesity but also diabetes. In some cases, this kind of strategy is also important to improve other approach, other therapeutic approach. Thank you very much. This is very helpful. Pilar, we observe in different intubation a high variability, a drastic variability between individuals. As an expert of microbiome and microbiota, what do you think is the impact of microbiota in this extreme variability we observe? I think it's likely to be a big factor. Obviously, not the only one. Genetics are also going to matter, of course, and the interaction between genetics and microbiome as Anonymous was saying is definitely something that needs to be much further studied. But composition of the microbiome, I think, is certainly going to be one of the aspects that influence whether an individual responds well or not to a given intervention. And it's probably something that we need to study much more closely in the future. I mean, it's clear that, for instance, if a bacteria is not present at the start of a given intervention, it cannot increase, right? Even if we give all the best foods to promote the increase of a bacteria, we need to count on the fact that the bacteria is already there. Otherwise, that strategy is not going to work. On the other hand, that's not the only thing, because, for instance, in our data, I didn't have time to mention it, but we've actually looked a little bit at that, whether, for instance, the differences that we saw between individuals could be explained simply by the fact that something was present or not at the beginning. And that's definitely not the only thing. So we had cases in which the same bacteria was present but did not respond to a given food. So there's also other things, probably interactions between different bacteria. There's a lot of interactions in the microbiome that we're only beginning to grasp. So, you know, the way a microbe behaves might be very dependent on whether other microbes are present or not in that particular individual. And that's something that, you know, it's gonna take a lot of experiments to look at. So I think it was, and I was again, was asking about the interactions between foods. That's simply obviously something that's gonna be also very, very important. So on one hand, the interactions between the bacteria but also the interactions between the foods. But, you know, here we did 3,000 in vitro fermentation. So you can imagine how many vitro fermentation would have to be done to serve the interactions between all of these foods. So that's, you know, work for a generation, not for a project. Right, for an army of graduate students or something. Yeah, long way. No, no, no, no. That's so long. To take care of our graduate students. Very important. Thank you, Pilar. Just to close these first rounds of questions, Jose Angel, we've talked about obesity, nutrition, and microbiota. But worry about other non-communicable diseases, how these diseases can benefit for these approaches of personalized nutrition approaches. No, no. I think it's running. Ah! I hope. Don't worry about that. Okay. Okay. You know, there are many diseases included in this classification of non-communicable diseases. You know, an approach of personalized nutrition regarding, for example, diabetes. Could be very, very, very important because of the variability also in the different people that respond to different treatments. But also, just thinking about the use of the gut microbiome also in our strategy of personalized nutrition, it was thinking amazing about the results we have about celiac disease. With children, it's incredible because we have not submitted yet the results to be published, but we have found that celiac disease children metabolize the foods in a different way that regular children and also compared with obese children and those with allergy to cow's milk. Something that we have found is quite important is that people with children with celiac disease, their gut microbiota is not able to ferment to extract the zinc element from the food. And this is very important and very relevant because zinc modulates the immune system and something that is not working properly in this kind of chip thing is the immune system. So we need to look at strategies to modify this microbiota in order to allow them to extract zinc or maybe a zinc supplement could be very interesting for these children because in order to try to perform these modifications. I think we are opening new doors to the approaches of this kind of personalized nutrition applied to different pathologies including this non-communicable diseases. Actually, in the results, in some of the results we observed a very clear cluster with metagenomic data in celiac disease children. They were completely, they have a completely different microbiota composition. So that's really interesting. Yeah, because at the end it's not just the metabolic behavior of that microbiota. So the interaction with the immune system in the gut directly and the modification they have. So more experiments must be performed on this way but I think this is a clear way to perform the future of research applied to personalized nutrition. Thank you very much, Jose Angel. With this question we end this first round of questions. Now we're gonna start with the Stanford Health Projects with work a lot, with achieve objective. We have work in different challenges. But Fabio, what are the lessons learned through all these projects? I think the first lessons was that it's very hard to recruit people to nutritional intervention. This is a focal point because they are the principal actor of this kind of studies. Observational study are more easy to perform but in this case the help of participants is very important. And so I think the best way to obtain participation and motivation of normal people to participate is to inform people. I think the one, of course our nutritional intervention starting during the COVID pandemic, this is a first problem. But I know that if people is more informed about the importance of gut microbiota and in general of health issues is motivated to participate in this kind of story. Of course our efforts in particular of the field staff were awarded, we know that even if the intervention finished some months ago, there is a group of participants that are still using our app, the iDiet app. And this is a good point. Something important to keep in mind is that it's not also that it's difficult to recruit people. It's also very difficult to define what is normal people or healthy people because of more than 600 adults that we were recruiting. Okay, your health status and say, no, I'm healthy. You are not healthy. More than 600 people just to take 200 for the intervention. So all the people is taking medications or suffer any kind of pain or whatever. So we need to modify our mind about what is normal and normal situation. Yes, this complex question and challenge. Another point you just mentioned the pillar is that we have a huge way to understand the interaction between microbiota and nutrition because we are actually, I was thinking that when we start the project, we were working with around 1,000 species or microorganism in the metabolic reconstruction. Now two months ago, they submitted the group of INS-TLA 8,000 metabolic reconstruction in the cat microbiota. So what is the next step you think to integrate the knowledge of microbiota in personalized nutrition or to be more aware of the advances in this topic? Well, I think it's a very, very complicated issue. Right now we have a lot of results that we've gotten from these years of work and I think we need more time actually to look at them and to understand all of these results. I don't think these are things that are as directly translatable as one would want to. There's a lot of very complicated interactions there to look at and to try to understand. We also see, for instance, in the case of cooking methods, the results are not straightforward. We have a great deal of inter-individual variability. So I think we're gonna need to look at many more individuals to try to understand the patterns. But again, that's a lot of work. And then of course there's all of the computational work to integrate that into metabolic networks, et cetera. I think one thing that might be important in the future is maybe to start thinking that the gut microbiome is something that we need to monitor more or less regularly like we monitor many other things about our health so that we have that data for people and we can integrate that into our general picture of their health and their metabolism. We are not used to that right now. Yeah, of course. But I think we're at a point where that could start to be done because even if maybe right now we cannot yet really use all that information in its full extent, but we will have that information for that person, what was their microbiome at 30 or at 40 or when that person gets older, we know for instance that with aging there is a lot of changes in the microbiome that are detrimental. So if we have their sequences when they were young, we know what to aim at, you know? No, in fact, in this way, I think we should give clear instructions to clinicians to use this kind of information and then clinicians should convince the politicians to use this strategy. And I think this is the hardest way because in order to know the cost of the analysis, they are decreasing day by day, but you have a cost and you need to repeat them along the time. So we think it's clear to extract information that clinicians at hospitals or primary care units or whatever to use this information also for nutritionists. Yeah, this is a major point in my opinion and it also happens in other diseases like cancer. We are talking about personalized medicine, but we need to create the infrastructures and the equipment to make it possible. So thank you very much. Jose-Angelo, yes to end with this round of questions. Fabio has also talked about the intervention trials. You have a lot of experience with this. You have suffered a lot in these trials, which are the main challenges that you found in this process. And a limitation we have to carry out this intervention trials. So it's not easy. I mean, for the people, the people usually respect if you give them some instructions in face by face, but following some rules, some modification throughout is not easy to follow them because of they say, okay, this is artificial intelligence. You know that right now everything is around artificial intelligence, I say, I'm not sure if trusting on this artificial intelligence could be enough. Although they know that research is below this recommendation, it's not easy. But also, in the case of the intervention per se, it was not easy to tell them, okay, for example, we are here this week to take your FICAL samples to analyze. Please you have these parts of the day to give our samples and one of our people in the field working, they receive FICAL samples during the lunch break. You can imagine in the restaurant, here you are my FICAL sample, put in the table and move out. This is something more serious for the people you know. It's not easy. And you need to be very clear when you need the things to, it's difficult, it's difficult. It's also personalized the research. Yeah, not only nutrition. I don't know if we have questions in the audience for this round of questions. I know the online question is completely full. Anonymous is writing a lot. Working a lot. We can answer. I agree with all. I wonder who wants to answer. You can see, all these smart technologies, for example, the apps are available to the public. In our case, no, in our case, we are working finishing more the commercial application. Probably in the coming months will be available to be used. Although we need to let the people know that we are going to prepare different modifications of the app depending on different pathologies because something is for plain people, healthy people and something applied for pathologies because of regular people could be more or less interested on their health. But those that will use more this personalized nutrition strategy are people that is unhealthy and have some pathologies and they want to be healthy. So we are going to work on this in the coming months also to prepare different modifications. Anonymous is not only doing questions, but also making observations to the debate that are more observation than questions. Okay, Mary, go ahead. That in terms of modulating the gut and linking it to a health outcome is where this kind of data will become so important because then we can see that through intervention you can modulate the gut and then you can link that to a health outcome so that will be very powerful data. I just wondered about compliance and how it's a difficult protocol, especially for children providing fecal samples and that's very challenging. So congratulations that you were, whoever the poor people that were out collecting the samples were. It's very difficult and I know that kind of work. There is no nine to five aspect of it. It's very challenging. But how do you measure compliance in your studies and was that a big issue? You can imagine you said with children, for example, how difficult it is.  It's horrible because it is not a person that use the app and provide the samples. You need to fight against your children and say, no, the food you want to eat is not so healthy. We need to match this. And of course, the main work is to train the parents to say no, no, you need to have clear mind and what is better for your children and you need to modify little by little the food intake and the kind of food they are taking in order to take this. Don't worry about the complaints, the modifications of the diet. For example, something that we did in the application is, okay, here you are, the menu you need to use in this week. But if you don't follow this menu, you only need to use the app and modify the food you are taking. So the app will recalculate the menu for the rest of the week just in order to check these complaints. So the app trained to modify this because we know that nobody's going to follow 100% of the diet you are using and what you want is to use, to follow the recommendations. Not 100%, but at least to follow because of the app, at the end, is just something to train the people, to teach the people how they need to feed themselves and they'll get the microwave. Thank you. More questions? If for a mononimus. In order to allow him or her to understand you. Thank you. And for the eye diet to prove its value. Then sooner or later we'll be adapted by the medical professionals and from the medical societies. And then you don't have to wait for the public sector, the public officers to give special instructions and to give the money for this to be applied to the whole population. It's the private sector. I mean that when something is proved that it has a real value, then people will start asking that. And then I'm sure that labs who analyze the microbiome will flourish in every country and people will ask for their microbiome to be analyzed and to do a special diet. I mean, that's at least what happens in Greece. First is the private sector that comes and then the public sector follows. Sure, and at least we need to be able to give clear data to clinicians or to the customers about the information of the gut microbiota because of the composition of the gut microbiota per se is nothing for a clinician or even for a researcher. You need to go deeper into what happens with that. What information can you start from that? And as you said, first probably we need to push on the private sector just to allow them to learn that they can have money from there. And then probably in the public sector, the responsible people that manage the funding will see that this is something good. But you know, it's hard to modify this. Thank you, Jose Angel. Any more question? Okay, so let's go to the final round of questions where we're gonna talk about the future and recommendation. Jose Angel just talked about the difficulty to convince parents to follow the diet. What are the difficulties in the addition of two healthy diets? What are the challenges that we must overcome to follow the recommendations? Yes, also in this case, information is the first point. We have seen that also for other problems like for example, cigarette smoking campaign where the informative campaign were important to reduce this problem. In my experience with childhood obesity, we obtained a good result. For example, in some school, we worked with children and adolescents. At their school, we were able to modify the menu of the school canteen. In some cases, we were able to substitute the use of snack at the school with fresh fruit and vegetables. But this was a very hard work thanks to intervention focus group meeting with different level, with children, with adolescents, their parent, with their teachers, also involving the stakeholders in this field. So information is the first step. The second step is also represented by the food industry because we know that in Europe, there is an high consumption of ultra-processed food. About 50% of the daily intake, calories intake in children and adolescents is represented by ultra-processed food. And so it will be important that food processing may reduce the content of salt, fat, sugar in processed food, specifically in food targeted for children. And the last point is to make available all these instruments and all food, all healthy food to all, popular to all consumers. Okay. I think we should not, I mean, the food industry is not the devil, you know, but we need to keep in mind that they are there, they are private companies to make money, okay? Not to kill us, yeah. But keeping this in mind, we need to think that we need to train the children when they are newborns almost on the kind of food they are eating because we give them especially sugary milks, for example, or quite sweet, they will train and you know the perception level they have of sweeteners will be higher. So we need to take care because if we give so sweet foods when they are newborns, they will eat a lot of sugars when they are adults. So we need to change our mind about this because it's not just food composition, but also the kind of foods or the ingredients we use during cooking. So we need to keep change our change of mind. Yes. Thank you, Jose Angel. Pilar, anything to add about how to incorporate of the obstacle to integrate microbiome data into personalized nutrition? Well, I guess the education aspect is also very important here. I think a lot of people nowadays do have some idea about the human microbiome. It's actually been pretty fast, amazingly fast how this has grown into the population. The perception of bacteria has changed. Now, more and more people realize that bacteria can have a positive role for health. But of course, often what people get from food industries from commercials about probiotics, probiotics, it's pretty simplistic. So I think it's important also that people have more scientific education about it to be able to judge what is being offered to them. I think this is really important in the previous events we have in San Sebastian, my university. I was surprised because many of the attendants to the meeting didn't know anything about microbiota. They were very surprised with the impact of microbiota in the HALDA. So many students, colleagues that attended the meeting was really surprised. So I think this scientific education is really important to overcome this obstacle. Jose Angel, just to finish this discussion, there's a talk, what are the biggest learning and recommendations for future research or future European funded projects? Which is your experience leading a stance for health? Very important. Fun, right? Yeah, fun. He enjoy a lot. Yeah, yeah. The first thing, don't be the coordinator. That's the key. But removing that part that in order to approach the research, in the case of European projects, that is a top-down approach and you have the challenges there and the topics that you need to include all the things that are requested by the European Commission, and you usually look for the best partners that fit on the topic you are applying for. But just in this case for researchers, just think not on the best partners for this. I mean, those that fit well, that look for those that are going to work in the best manner in the best approach of this, because sometimes you will earn time that you are going, if not wasting the performing the different tasks you have there. Is, I think this is quite important. And also try to strengthen the dissemination of the results because it's not just to publish papers or put in a public repository the data you have. You need to disseminate and to reach the normal people. It's quite important as you said in San Sebastian or whatever. Anytime we have an open session with people, the people need to know what we are doing with their money because we are using their money. And not just is how we are advancing because if not, nobody will know that. In fact, we are crazy about the low, I mean, of course, I apologize, the low knowledge about this application for nutrition or whatever in clinicians. It's incredible. It doesn't matter talking about children or talking about cancer or with oncologists or whatever. It's the knowledge is quite low and the integration of the different units is not existing. It's quite difficult. So we need to push also in the clinic sector in the health sector to work together in order to develop this to research but also to treat the people. I think it's quite important. Thank you, Jose Angel. I just to say he was a really good coordinator in the project. And I have to say that when we start talking at the beginning of the project and preparing the proposal, Jose Angel say, we are gonna grow as in our research with this project. And I have to say after four, five years, myself at least, I could grow with this impressive set of researchers and colleagues. So thank you very much, Jose Angel, for all your work and your leadership in this project. And now, I don't know if we've got time. Anonymous. Anonymous was writing something. More questions. People in the audience has any. Yes, for example, you know that Carlos, not anonymous, okay, this time said, more long term studies and collaboration across disciplines. We were talking about, it's very important. You know, as Pilar said before, we need more long term studies and also take repeated analysis of the gut microbiology to check what's happening there, what we have been modifying. What is happening there? I think it's very important and also the collaboration across disciplines is mandatory. This is the real strength we will have, if not, okay, another project, another whatever, but we are not going to advance to really press the population. I agree, Fabio. Yes, yes. The only key is to cooperate and also to create net with other researchers in the same field, also to add opportunity, add ready ideas. It's not lost the work we've done in these years. And something we learned. Also, collaboration across disciplines and also different kind of research participants, because of, in our case, the industry was passing us to obtain the results and to do things with a different point of view, which is the application. And we need to keep in mind that as researchers, the data, the knowledge we obtain should be applied for something. And there, the companies are very important, irrespective if they are from the health sector, the food sector, or whatever. They need to be able to apply what we are preparing, if not, this won't be, it's just knowledge. We need companies help us to make more objective or the impact of our research. So this is also important. But I think I want to emphasize also the richness of different disciplines in the projects. I was really surprised in my case, for example, in the development of the algorithm, the contribution of different partners, not only scientific, like Jose Angel Pilar, but also Veronica, only with the E-Diet, she helped us a lot to move further and to not get stuck with the complication found in the projects. Camila? Yeah, I have a question. Yeah, can you hear me? So in terms of the research, like what do you think it would have been nice to have that would have been helpful to do the research in terms of, I don't know, some other partners, maybe in the development of local governments for the implementation of this, or like more hospitals, more, I don't know, what do you think it would have been, what addition would have been nice to have to make all the study a little bit easier and then the impact to be a little bit even more impactful? Yeah, first, more time to analyze data. Because of you draft a project, knowing what you want to do, okay? But the huge amount of data you are producing and you are able to extract information from that, I know we are going to be working on this project at least for three or four more years, at least, publishing, extracting data and re-analysing the data and also sharing and other researchers will analyze the data from different point of views because it's so big, it's so big and the amount of information and relationships you have that with time, you extract more info from them. So I think that time is some of the keys of the thing. Yeah, I agree, I mean, I think in the case of the inventory fermentation analysis, I mean, of course we could have done more but I don't think it would be reasonable either to think of doing more in the context of a single project. I think it's just that it's the first time that this has been done to this large scale. I mean, before our study, there were just, you could count with the fingers of one hand that the type of similar works that had been published. Some of them by us, actually. But so it's really something that is very novel. I could say I would have liked to analyze 20 people instead of three, I would have gotten much better results but it's not reasonable. It's just we're starting something that needs to go on for a long time. It has to be repeated by other people. It has to be extended in many ways but honestly, I don't think it would have been reasonable to say we're gonna do all of that in the context of one project. Even with the knowledge we have now, I would like to have more clinicians involved there just to help us to extract information, useful information to be applied directly in the daily clinic practice. I know, I have learned a lot about this, about how can we exchange, use the same language. I mean, the research language and the clinician language in order to use this information is extremely important and I know that more clinicians are more time to talk with them and to extract information could be also very important. I think something that we should probably start thinking about maybe not only among us but with other people that work on similar things is what Costas was saying actually about not starting to put together some kind of guidelines even if they're very simple but start the process and keep refining them with time but right now there's a few things maybe not many but a few things that we can definitely put on paper you know, black over white, we think this is like this and then you know, with time... It's a way to start, yes. Yeah, exactly, with time with more people involved and more people thinking about it make them more and more sophisticated but we could probably start at least getting together and starting to think about it. Yeah, thank you Pilar. Bianca? Yeah, you raised the ball Jose with more dissemination, communication and now that Camilla asked what's missing I wanted to say something what I feel now after the event we had in South Sebastian what is really missing an event like the one we had dedicated to regular people who have no idea about personalized nutrition who don't know how easy it is to have some small tricks that you can implement at home that you can help your microbiota because it was really amazing to be there with them to cook, I don't know if... It can be called cooking what Veronica and I did but... I don't know how to interpret that, Bianca. We tried. But it was amazing to really see their faces and to realize that there is so little knowledge I mean in the online world you see a lot of information about healthy diets, about what you should eat but at the end of the day it's so simple and this event that we had has proven us that this is also very important to really translate the science to the plate and to talk to normal people about this and I think it also helps as a boomerang in developing the app in helping, shaping the results so it was very unfortunate that COVID stopped us to do more but I think this is something that future projects can keep in mind the importance of having events dedicated to the final customers of the results that will come at the end. In that event we have a round table and one of the participants was a tough chef in the Basque country which is an area, a popular area where you eat very well in Spain and after in our university we have a gastronomic society which is something very typical in the Basque country where well I'm not going to tell you the story about gastronomic society I can tell you later in the coffee break if you want but every professor in our university can book this gastronomic society and then you can there cook, meet your friends you have like 20-30 positions so we organize an event with students, with master students and undergraduate students and Bernonika and Bianca cooked, I helped them a bit, a bit and also the chef prepared very complicated sources so students preferred the food of Bianca and Bernonika because it was simple, it was simple and easy to cook so it was an important and good experience with this now with Bianca One very short point about what's missing somehow the point of anonymous there about psychology because I'm a parent of a teenager and some weeks ago he told me mom you messed up with me, you made me wrong now I cannot eat so much sugar and sweet things and I'm trying but then what do you do with the kids that go to school and that are surrounded by other kids eating sweets and junk food and KFC and whatever food it's not okay so then I think really it's important to also consider this element it's not just important to know what to eat but how do you educate people to eat what they are supposed to I think it's very important that part because when you are drafting a project you are thinking of what the commission asked about this you have different approaches of course but it's a bit that the last meeting you performed in San Sebastian was at the end of the project maybe we didn't have the COVID pandemic or whatever we performed before this kind of meeting probably we would have more meetings on that side but at least we have in mind that this is functioning very well for future projects we can do this kind of things but we can say that although it's not a meeting we are going to release a book of healthy recipes with all this information and whatever and with the supervision of the nutritional point of view and healthy for the gut microbiome also so we will impact in a different way the people I think I just want to add that I believe that citizen engagement is key in this as you mentioned I think the coming projects like the next generation of projects includes a lot of that it's also very important to change the environment of people to get the better foods and to change the norms talking about the human psychology here and then I think translating science is one of it's always being very complicated between the experts but also it translates science to the general public and well that's what we do at UFIC so if you ever want to go to our website and see more information you can just go there I think Francis you were finalizing this to go to for lunch this is after the this is the chuleta or the ship of the discussion it said after one sort of sentence which is going to be the main actor for driving these chains one sort of sentence ten seconds answer Fabio your first the first actor I think as we said before one actor is not possible it needs communication multi-actor approach is the key okay so after this answer that's it nothing more it's going to be for lunch