Ladies and gentlemen, welcome today for a special session on what makes a great story. The power of data-driven narratives. Just as food nourishes the body, content feeds the mind, offering a unique lens through which we perceive the world and its culture. Content is also like food for the brain. It's the window to culture and the great way to understand the world around us. And the internet has changed what it needs to tell a great story. In a world where every click, every swipe, every interaction leaves behind a trail of data, it has created a new breed of storytellers. It has also spawned a new breed, storytellers. Those behind the scenes creating and connecting brands to captivate audiences like never before. And today, we are privileged to host some of the country's most distinguished storytellers and storytellers who will unveil the secrets behind exceptional storytelling. They will demonstrate how integrating data into storytelling can elevate that whole art of storytelling and take it to newer heights. Our esteemed panel of guests need no formal introductions. Their reputations precede them. And like how we have the privilege of being joined by experts, I'll introduce each one of them to you. But none of them again need no introduction. First, we have Hari Krishnan. Hari is the managing director of publicity content and publicity group, marketing communications, a visionary at the crossroads of media, data and creativity. Next, we welcome Avril Sekwara, head of Creative Futures at Group M, a trailblazer in merchant creativity with tech to pioneer some ground-rating campaigns. Looking forward to have this chat with you, Avril. Welcome. We are also honored to have our third guest, Dheeraj Kumar, national creative director at Group M, a master of creative direction and strategic storytelling that propels brand to greater success. And we have Prachi, Prachi Narayan. Prachi is senior vice president and heads content at Havas Media, an innovator in audience engagement and data-driven storytelling. Welcome, Prachi. And finally, I'll also introduce myself. I am Saurabh Sharma. I take care of HD Brand Studio, the content studio within HD Media that brings the best of legacy and new age brands like the likes of Hindustan Times, Mint and Hindustan. And we have stayed relevant through evolving idea of media since 1924 till now and our ideas of influence culture, journalism has shaped public opinion and our campaigns, properties, platforms have played a key role in the life of evolving Indians. Our entire conversation today will be broken in three parts. The first segment will look at evolution. The second segment will deep dive into the recent trends that we see in the current landscape and the final part will look at how is it that we equip ourselves to become better, stronger, storytellers and storytellers. And now that we have set the stage for the conversation and introduced our panel, it is one word of advice for each one of you listening in. Please send in your questions in the chat window that you will see so that it can be appropriately asked and peppered through our conversation. Hari, we'll kick start this conversation with you first. Tell us how data-driven narratives have evolved over time and how this evolution has impacted consumer engagement strategies that brands have deployed to connect with consumers. Oh, thanks, Sharad. This was a wonderful introduction. And first of all, I'm really happy to be with all of you here, all very illustrious people including some old friends whom I worked very closely with. And I guess this whole thing about data-driven creativity, while this sounds new, I must tell you that we've always, even 30, 40 years ago, any piece of content that was ever made was based on data. A brief that was given was data. But since we've added so many layers to the word data, everybody seems to think that what used to happen in the past was just magic without an input. So the thing is this word is getting more traction because the complexion of data or the quality of data or the dimensions and granularity of data has become so much more refined that we are now today using this word in a sense that it is supposed to trigger a lot more of performance, a lot more efficiency, a lot more precision. And I guess from that point of view, since this whole first section is about evolution, I guess what has really happened is that over the years and especially in the last 10 years, what we are witnessing as an industry is the gap that existed between real-time data coming in and creatives or stories being developed, that gap is reducing. I think earlier there used to be data coming in and then a huge amount of gestation period for it to result in some kind of a communication outcome. Then you had more data coming in and the outcomes were lesser because while the pipelines became bigger, the ability to create stories was still the same and then the response time therefore was a little bit more in fact because the more data it came in, you had to create more stories and more responses. But today with technologies that are enabling creativity at scale, creation at scale, storytelling at scale, that gap between the time the data comes in and the stuff gets done and puts out, that has reduced. I think that's perhaps one of the biggest phenomena of how it is all evolved. What I have also seen in my career is of course from the very primitive stages of very simple data, qualitative data coming in, quantitative data coming in, moving on to when we move to digital, I think at the very least, which now seems very primitive was remarketing where we at least knew what the consumer journey was because data told you where he was at his stage of the journey, you couldn't serve him something relevant. I think we moved on to things like very precise creatives like what we see in DCOs or for that matter. Now you move on to an era where we have AI that kind of really hyper personalizes your creative. So I guess if you really look at the way this whole scene has evolved, it's very interesting and today we are far more empowered as storytellers to not only get more data but also to respond to it in many, many more ways than one. So that's in a nutshell in my view how this evolution has kind of shaped up. I'm going to frame this Hari storytelling at scale. I'm going to frame this word and this sentence. After following Hari's point, how have you approached campaigns? How have you blended creativity and tech to stand out in a crowded space and the space is only going to get is getting crowded and it's getting a lot more population than anything else. Thanks Hari and thank you so much for having me and honored to be on this panel. In response to your questions, I think what's really worked when I've approached campaigns has been that at the heart of it, I really think that stories are all around us. I think with technology coming in even prior to that, I think I've been a firm believer in creating stories and understanding how the audience interprets the story, how they make it their own and I think with technology today we've been able to make it possible. So if you look at it what technology has really done is to help democratize creativity. It's said to bring in more participation and I think that to me has been the power of some of the campaigns we've done. The first sort of experience I had and this was back in the analog world and some of our listeners might remember there were these story books where you could choose the plot. You could almost say that if this happens go to page numbers so and so and there would be a very different ending and that's always fascinated me because the plot is evolving as you're evolving and then you go back and check what happens if you pick something else. And I think today with technology you can make that all real and make it happen. So that's a super exciting space to be in. One of my first brushes with creativity and technology was when we had Koch enter the first Metaverse wedding that happened and I think that was all serendipity. It was 24 hours of working with a very small tech partner who was actually launching a wedding in the Metaverse. This was back in 2021 and being able to be the welcome drink at the Metaverse was a big initiative for us from ensuring what kind of coding needed to be done, what kind of placement needed to happen, how do you build the whole hype around it. And I realized that there are two ways of doing technology. One is to grab eyeballs. One is to sort of be the first at doing something. And the other is really when the whole campaign itself is built on a very human through human story which you then amplify using the power of media. So everything that you see today which is scan and participate which is all the campaigns which are around again DCO led campaigns where you're talking personally to someone based on their past behaviors. I think all of that is beautiful because it is getting people into the mix. It is allowing people to tell the stories in their own way. And that to me has been the magic that data-driven storytelling is. Wow. Averil that's fantastic. I never knew weddings happened in the Metaverse. I wonder what else will go on the Metaverse. Biraj, as a creative director, you get access to a lot of data and insights that come out of it. How do you use them to enhance and further your storytelling process? And we love to hear some great examples that you've deployed, deploying and ready to deploy in the future. Great. Thank you sort of for this conversation and good to see all old friends and industry colleagues. I hope I'm loud and clear. I'm on the road and I do believe that's not a data that I'm sharing with you. So, see, at the heart of any brand communication, you have to put the voice of consumer. And voice of consumer is coming from various sources to us, right? It's the emotion and that emotion that resonate with the audience. So how we drive my philosophy of driving communication or creative is I have a tagline which is there on my desk. It's called Thora Data Thora Dil. Okay. So, and that's how we do. So a lot of time, you know, detecting tells me boss are data and Thora Dil. I tell them no. Right. It has to be a right mix of things because if you see the intuition is validated by data. If intuition was the only intuition is becoming the subset of data, right? So when a creative person working on something and the intuition says that this is the emotion that you have to deliver, sometimes data very dates there, right? And sometimes there are weak signals that data very dates that and you have to take intuition which is Thora Dil and you have to take data which is Thora data and do a mix of it and deliver your communication. Now, I'll give you a very fine example of what we have done during World Cup. And a lot of signal was coming. And the signals that, you know, India may work up for and you know, India should win. It's going very powerful and you know, they were going to win World Cup and all that. Another signal which was coming is that a lot of brands want to latch on to saying that this is the third time and let's make the head break out of. Right. So for some of our brands and for one of our clients, we created a campaign which is an anthem which was the core of that. We were only talking about let's do it. Right. And we coined the word and we started the conversation with that word. So very well that, you know, people started picking it up and talking about key everybody's talking about the third time India is going to win. But the world is so distinctive in itself. Now that was the intuition. You know, intuition when when the word came the bar I everybody said keep the bar either very, you know, in this big market world how people will understand all that. But everybody picked it up. We we differentiate from other brands to deliver. Let's let's get the World Cup third time. So I think it's a very fine example right to give. So I conclude my point here is that yes data driven stories are important, but you need to maintain to our data. Rota data. Tibera as well. You know, this is a very interesting point that I like to add here that you know, we also did something very interesting at Hindustan Times. We made the entire paper turned blue because the whole concept of lead blue cheer for the country. We got the entire country together by saying and turning the pages of Hindustan Times. You know, again, as you navigate the line between pushing creative boundaries and staying true to the brand and you know this entire balance can be tricky. How do you approach the savage. Hi sort of thank you for having me on the panel. Hi to everybody else who joined the esteemed panel. This in response to your query sort of this that definite risk of sort of losing yourself and sometimes even over indulging and pushing creative boundaries once you set out to create an innovation or disruption, which is why it's critical to constantly, you know, remind yourself of the end goal, because this is something that I even personally do every step of your content journey should essentially be aligned with the communication target and must deliver for the brand. From the com so the choice of platforms to the influencers and the format, all of it needs to tie back to the brand's objective. In terms of an example I know that the dub real beauty campaign that stays very high on my list always. Dub has really stayed true to its core brand values of body positivity and boosting self confidence. And you know they've also pushed the creative boundaries with thought provoking creatives by using real authentic people in their campaigns. They've been true to the brand essence embracing the same and yet challenging the existing category codes would be actually one of the ways of, you know, striking this balance. Wow, I have one more follow up question for you. You know, you're the lucky one you get another one. And as we look ahead, you know, very nicely very crisply articulated, what are the trends that you see, looking ahead, that brand should be more aware of, and, you know, it's not so much more of being in the race but how is it that they can stay ahead of the curve. What do you think your pieces of advice will be to all marketers listening in. Right, so sort of actually I mean I think all of us agree here we're talking about technology in such a big way and that's really changed the way we're telling our stories today. Interactive storytelling being one of the biggest trends right now brands must explore interactive narratives. It's already actually happening in OTT shows and branded content as well. Three years ago we executed something for Hyundai one of our clients, which was around the, you know, when the Hyundai venue was getting launched, something very, very simple you know where you take the influencers and these guys have got the car and you know they're out exploring some cities, which is the normal format when you're doing something like that right, but here what we created was a unique social media, you know format where the engagement started much before the content actually add. So all these influencers who were, you know, got massive followership on, you know, their social media platforms, while they were actually on the shoot, they were actually tweeting and they were, you know, going on their Instagram live and they were asking their followers about what is the next thing that they should do in their itinerary. So, you know, the viewers who are actually involved in that narrative they actually felt like they were controlling the narrative and controlling the itinerary of the show. So, I mean, which is something very interesting that we executed and it's won us a lot of awards. The second thing being, of course, AR and VR that's, you know, that can provide a very immersive storytelling experience companies like one plus are using blip pair, you know, for launching phones, Apple Vision Pro, I'm sure all of us are a huge fan it's going to be a game changer in mixed reality. And I'm 100% sure that we are going to see some very branded interactions there as well. The third one for me is UGC user generated content is going to be massive again. While it helps in fostering a sense of community and authenticity, you know, it also builds in trust and credibility. So one of the campaigns that we executed for Tata Motors commercial vehicles which was called Tata Motors photo okay, is where we, you know, we wanted to build brand love and connect with truckers, but we also realize that tracking as a profession never sounds that great, you know, it's not, it's not something that, you know, you aspire to, and we wanted to do something where we established that there's more to a truck driver than just getting from point A to point B. We also realized that, you know, truckers are actually the people who are traversing the length and breadth of the country and they're coming across some of the most scenic locations. So we ran a very simple UGC campaign where we asked truckers to send in photos of the most scenic locations on their route on to a simple WhatsApp number because that's what they use. And we received you'd be surprised 23,000 photos and eventually this was turned into, you know, a photo exhibition. So I think yeah UGC content is becoming massive as well. And fourth one which I would really want to stress upon is the large piece that's evolving which is short format video content. And of course it's evolving right now. There's this massive evolution that we're expecting in the future as well. A tension span of course is reducing and that's been proven by the success of platforms like, you know, TikTok and Instagram. While these short videos are easily shareable, they also have increased engagement. Also, you know, they're available on wildly available, you know, platforms and their mobile friendly format, which makes it, you know, easily, which increases the accessibility and reach as well. And in some ways it also offers a massive efficiency in storytelling because you have to make it quick. You have to make it, you know, you're not spending too much time in building a narrative. You have to keep it concise and focused and that in itself then offers massive engagement increase because you can use these short videos to sort of, you know, respond to comments, answer questions and even build a more interactive experience with your audience. So I think these are the trends that I'm looking out for. Wow. Four specific trends. Very, very sharp, Rajeev. Thank you. We've already, you know, we've touched upon how data driven storytelling has evolved. You know, Prachi spoke about interactive IT in content. You know, UTC in content. You know, it's all involving. You know, when we look ahead, there are several other ways in which brands can leverage these tools. How do you think what are those non mentioned manners in which people and brands can engage, especially platforms that reside, you know, there is a special different way to engage socially. There's a different way in which publisher platforms can enter into the frame. There are other high-reach platforms that can be deployed. How do you think brands can adapt their stories and engage with consumers? See, I think what has really stayed with me since the beginning of this talk is what Dheerit said about Huda data, Huda Dil. And I guess regardless of the platform, what we are trying to do here with all the technology that we have, with all the tools that we have is finally reach the heart of the consumer. Stoke the heart of the consumer and usually conversations like these get very intense about the sheer capability and the sophistication of the engines that are operating behind this whole thing about how a lot of complexity is involved in bringing something to you. While all that is absolutely fine and true and continues to evolve, I think it is that deal which we are trying to really kind of get at. So building on what Prachi just said about content that users are creating, I think it's a very interesting example that she spoke about, about truckers capturing images and someone sitting and curating those images. I'm sure that would have been quite, that itself would have been quite a task. But then finally when that content is to be experienced by somebody. Now I'll give you a parallel example which all of, I think each one of us see probably every day when we are sitting in our cars, like how Deredge is right now, short on an iPhone. I think short on an iPhone is perhaps a stellar example of user generated content using the product, which is in question, which is in focus to use a pun. And they actually pick that up and put it across in real terms across the whole world.  Now that's one end of stoking whatever you've got and putting it in real terms out there. So that's that's the age old conventional tool where you have run a very big contest or whatever using very, very sophisticated and advanced technology, but you're actually putting it out on a dumb outdoor at the end of the day. But the consumer kadil maan pe hai. So he, when he experiences it, there's no bigger joy than that where he knows that a thousand other people in the cars which are passing by are also watching it. So that's a very tactile real thing that has been enabled by technology. So that's at one end of the scale. At the other end of the scale is something very interesting. I must tell you, which is and we recently saw the Pepsi's new logo reveal that has been done across the world. And of course, a lot of CGI has been used. They've taken famous landmarks around the world and used to give you an on-screen experience of say what has happened in a gateway of India or what has happened on Times Square or what has happened near Pushkhalifa.  But the experience that the consumer is getting is a very unreal experience really because that's virtual. We are now talking tools that we now at our disposal where the thing is really not there but technology allows you to get a feeling that it is there. So that's the second kind of experience. Now that happens through skins, that happens through filters and you can participate in that. So typically, what it gives you is a very mixed and a hybrid experience of brands going live and brands bringing alive their propositions, whether it is in the real world as we just discussed about iPhone or it is in a virtual world. But each one of them making the consumer feel special at the end of the day. Now, when we talk about hyper personalization, what do we say? We say that okay, you just saw, you know, we in fact, our chairman Arthur Sudune, he sent out 100,000 greeting cards to every employee of publicity this new year and he had his hand tattooed with each name. Now, when I saw my name on his coffee cup, I know that everyone else is not seeing it, everyone else is seeing their name. But at that moment, I am made to feel that I am special. So very, very polarized opposite. One is to say, hey, I put something out there and everyone's watching it. And the other one is there's something that makes me believe that everyone's watching it, but I know everyone isn't. But it makes me feel good about it. So that is what data and Dilka interplay is very beautiful in this new hybrid world where I think as storytellers, we are just playing with everything that has been given to us. And I guess what is important is that as we, it's also important to discuss while we are all talking about these examples and cases that we've done, that it's the role of most of our storytellers, creative agencies, content studios such as yours sort of, you know, we really need to add a lot of semantics to the syntactics that's already generated by machines at this point of time.  You know, I think a lot is going into obsessing with the sheer impossibility of all this and how technology is making it happen. But someone needs to focus on the final piece of art that will finally come out like what Dira just said, which will resonate with that emotional need that people want. Now, if you look at last year, I'm not sure if all of you remember, it was a Khan winner. We at Publici, we recreated the 175 replayed, you know, the unseen cricket match which no one had seen. There was a whole lot of AI, a lot of data that went into capturing the scenes of what could have happened that day by talking to journalists, by talking to people, by talking to players. They actually took all their data and recreated that scene, which is almost precise as you know, you created all the players and you made them younger and you actually created that scene for what? For Thoda, Dita, Thoda, Dil. Because that was one over which was a big stellar example in the future of I would say sports entertainment where you replayed that 175 just out of data that was residing in people's heads and maybe a few pictures and maybe a few photos. But it was all to win the dill of people. So I guess tools are many, platforms are many, the manifestations are different, but storytellers have the larger burden and the larger responsibility of finally delivering it to the heart, right? So yeah, that's what it is. I have an example of the burden that we all carry. I'm not sure if you would have all noticed. You know, there are these big toilets that you see, especially in Uttar Pradesh a lot. We came across as an insight. We figured out that women especially, when they land right before the festival, we realized that they all land to these local market areas, if you may call it that, the shopping areas, the malls, the shopping hubs per se. All of them used to gather pre-festive buying happens, festive buying is happening. But they were all very inconvenienced because there are no available toilets. The loos are not available. They are not functional. Even if they are functional, they are not usable. We created this whole campaign, which was called Pink Toilets, which was then later expanded from Lucknow, Kanpur to other cities in Uttar Pradesh, which now has become almost like a government narrative, right? That's the responsibility that platforms like ours. Where you have data, because you know that they are inconvenienced, you capture that insight, you put your heart and you put your mind also at the right place to create impact that's measurable and sometimes not as well, right? But you really know that you did help. Instinctively it worked, right? Yeah. That's awesome sort of. In fact, just on that, I recall another campaign. I think this was Volvo globally. What they realized is that all the crash test dummies on which the cars are tested tended to have the anatomy of a male. And given that they stand for safety, they created the first female crash test dummy, which was Eva, and they actually made a whole campaign around it to say that, you know, how it affects different body types differently. And I think that's such a beautiful way of storytelling staying true to your brand ethos, using real data to both show why you need to have a different model and what happens when Eva is tested. And you're right, absolutely. I think it's a credibility of who's telling the story, which also then adds to the impact that it ultimately has. Thank you, April. Thank you so much for bringing that point.  But tell me, where does Excel sheets and spreadsheets and the mark come into the picture? When it comes to real spending money, we had a campaign. That's when brands and marketeers shy from loosening post drinks. They will all ask, boss, where's the ROI that needs to be delivered? What impact will it land and deliver on? How do you, how do you craft a campaign with dill and with data? So the good thing is that, you know, I work with a military agency and I understand the value of the matrix, right? Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's pain, right? When you want to do something to only then it doesn't happen, right? The whole idea of bringing ROI to a campaign, right? It's not seen only from the lens of what creative we are building. It's also seen from the lens of where we are deploying it to whom we are engaging it. What kind of manifest in that, that we are giving to the idea. So it's a great idea, which, which is hard, but it has to be converted into some sort of, you know, business objective. So you have the subset of that idea, right? You have some subset, which, which actually goes from your top funnel to, you know, your middle funnel and then, you know, bottom funnel. But the idea remains one thread to the whole campaign, right? So that's how you can figure out, okay, this is, this is the brand asset, which has the manifestation for you and also solving some different ideas. I don't want to just, just I finished a meeting before this and we were working on some FPD idea for one of the brands. So I just started from engaging, you know, audience through music or the young people, they can make their own playlist and the bot will say, hey, you made your playlist. It's fantastic, you know, but what kind of your, your kind of playlist is fantastic. But what kind of skin you have, right? I have a dry skin. I have something for you, right? You, you give that and say key your place will be picked up by Darshan Rao if it's a playlist that matches with his playlist. That is it.  But bhaiya, o mera face kya kharidri hai ki nahi kharidri, right? So we said, okay, this is how we can do it. But I will not dilute my idea because the moment you intrude into the life of your consumer by saying ki bhaiya, buy me, buy me, that's not going to happen, right? You have to have a big idea, that big idea brings that consumer to, to some sort of value exchange, I should say, right? That value exchange happens and then you move on. And the metrics on that value exchange can be, can be measured, right? So that's how we balance things up. With the edge, it, you know, brings us to a point where targeting and sharp targeting to relevant folks is extremely important, right? I don't know, there are several other ways in which targeting happens. Some brands, some platforms allow and operate with DMP. I'm not sure whether this group or even the audience space are even aware of how HD media deployed something which is called a CDB, a content data platform. And here in using this and leveraging the power of first party data that resides on HD media of all the users that come to us, we move from more probabilistic to more deterministic signals of identifying who the individual is. We sharp shoot and, you know, first party data, then you further boost it with second party data. You enrich it with partnerships to create now specific personas that you can now target, exactly like what you were saying. I'm not sure whether our CDB can even target people with dry skin, but imagine targeting, you know, a 28-year-old in a metro with active DMAT account and having done online payments in the last four weeks is a very specific persona set. And now imagine your DIL data and the campaign thought being targeted to people like these. Now that's, you know, that's where interesting impact lands and delivers. Superb. Thank you for sharing that with us, Dheeraj. I, you know, will connect later to also understand what the brand, you know, what is that brand that you had that chat, but again, some other time.  Of course, all of us know that, but this culture is also evolving and it's evolving on a daily basis. You know, we spoke about, you know, the female mannequins, right? It is culture and it's fast evolving as such. How do you, how do you still recommend to brand owners to market yours specially that their stories remain relevant and with these stories remaining relevant, they still end up resonating with the entire audience set that they want to target. How do you, how do you, what's those three pieces of specific advice that you want to land and give to marketers? I don't know about three sort of, but I'll give it a shot.  I think some of the codes and I would say not only of India or people worldwide, right? Especially when it comes to storytelling, they're not very different.  I don't claim to say there is a formula here, but you know, there are themes of the greater good. There are themes of the underdog story. There is the hero's journey. You know, there are all of these themes which are universal and which continue to be so. So even as culture evolves, maybe the way I look at it today, it can be a woman hero. It can be somebody from, you know, another underprivileged class or society, but the whole journey everybody's interested in seeing. So I think what I'd advise brands to do is to stay relevant is to find a way to still hang, hold on to those themes to not let them go. But how do you ensure that people start seeing themselves in those stories now? Because that's what data and better targeting and everything is allowing you to do. Like one example I can share is this is a mass pedigree account we handle globally where they use digital out of form that every time a person passed by with your dog, based on the dog, whether it's a German shepherd or it's a shidzu, etc. The actual creative change and the amount of pedigree that was recommended for the dog of that size actually appeared on the billboard. And I think it is so beautiful and anyone who has a dog will immediately find that so endearing because you've been able to do something interesting with technology. So I think you're playing on the bond, you're playing on sentiment, but you enhanced it with the use of data and storytelling. Another example would be of Tesco, again, and this comes back to how much data you have in your pool. Of course, for brands who don't have data sort of just told you what to do with HD Brand Studio. But for those who do, so Tesco has a lot of CRM data because they have checkout data. And what they did for an Easter campaign is that they looked at the kind of purchases of meat that was happening, the different types of meat available. And based on that, they sent recipes, video recipes of what you could make on that Easter. And I think for bachelors, for people who are struggling with inspiration and ideas for those with limited ingredients, I think it's a beautiful way of adding value to their lives. So I think, yes, culture is evolving and there are some things which will come and go like mohe mohe, right? It came and went and that's not something that you'd let the UGC do that, you'd let consumers participate in that. You would want a brand to be part of something deeper, something which resonates at more, I would say visceral level, but help them enhance that by getting the person into the story. I think that surely will get the resonance that you were talking about. Superb. Thank you so much, Avril. Wow, there are loads. I can keep on scrolling and scrolling and the questions just don't end. I can just glance through it and there are about seven, eight questions on AI. Guys, there's a question on AI. I'll ask that first and then I'll follow it up with user questions. I'll do that. It's a very interesting question that comes up. And Hari, this one is for you, specifically targeted towards you. What are some of those biggest challenges that you face in creating and implementing interactive content? How do you ensure that the UX is seamless and engaging across different platforms? This one was shot right at UI. Look, I think interaction itself needs to be first looked at as to whether you want the consumer to interact or whether you just want him to experience the magical stuff that has been offered or served to him or her. And I think it goes back to the targeting part, which is getting something done. Like when I talked about hyper-personalized creative that is coming at me is something that it engages me for a moment saying, hey, that's me. But then, and that's the only delight factor. After that, what happens? So after having said that, oh, my name is on your, I've tattooed your name on my hand, what then, what next? So one of the things is that when we are producing interactive AI art at scale, we also write only skim the surface of it and say, oh, I've now served it to millions of people. But the experience that I've served is actually at a very, very base level. So what happens is that you tick the box on personalization, but you've really not used the opportunity that person gave you of his heart and said, listen, I'm opening this right now for you. Tell me more. So we don't do that. We don't do that. I think we aren't like movies that are made in Hollywood about AI girlfriends who almost come alive at the end. We haven't reached that stage. So that's really one challenge where we are still in the woods when it comes to utilizing it to and juicing it to the fullest. So besides that, I really have to think of more. What else was the question? One was about challenges. We were implementing it seamlessly and engaging across different platforms, but I think you're still given the answer. And to Vinith, who asked this question, a very sharp one, you threw your arrow right at Hari. But the point was, let me give an example and defend him here. Great answer, but we did something which was called Artva Vera. I don't know whether you know this, but it was the eighth wow of equality. Wherein we even got out to ask all males, all females, are you willing to take the eighth wow? You might be married 20 years, 30 years, 40 years into your marriage, but do you really consider your partner equal? And if you don't tell me, tell my wife this, but I literally had to make her take that wow. So yeah, that's pretty much it. Thank you Vinith for that question though. Raji, we have discussed so much about FMCG, auto, but they're all B2C centric as such. B2V isn't boring. It isn't boring at all. We are one of those platforms that launched Mint with a very refreshing clarity of thought. How do you think the advertising world is progressing on B2B? Of course B2C is sexy, but B2V can be attractive too. If you look at the current landscape, how is it that the storytelling is progressing in the B2B space? How do you make it compelling? How do you make it effective? So storytelling is a powerful tool, but it's not just for B2B, but it's a powerful tool for any kind of marketing. And honestly, I do feel that there's sort of no need to treat the end customer differently because content works at both a functional and at a personal level as well. So be it a consumer who's making a decision for himself or for his organization, it works in the same way. And especially if we are storytellers, then we just need to kind of figure out the challenges and provide the right solution for it. Essentially, the concept of storytelling is complex and there's always, there has to be a very customer-centric approach. So let's say if you're engaging on LinkedIn, you'll talk about the organization. If it's Meta, you'll probably focus on services. One of the examples that comes to mind is the Infosys and ATP tour partnership. That's a great example of B2B marketing because the partnership draws on Infosys' deep expertise in digital technologies, which is AI, data analytics and cloud, which enriches the fun experience and the player's performance in professional tennis. Now this started in 2015 and since then Infosys and ATP, they've collaborated to deploy rich and innovative assets for ATP, including reinventing the legacy ATP player zone intranet portal as well. Now, beyond this, they've launched the first ever ATP tour fan app. They've created several AI-first features powered by Infosys' tour pass across the Infosys' ATP stat center as well. Beyond, I mean, with the great success of this, they are now going to focus on new innovations powered by AI and data to personalize experiences for players and fans as well. So essentially to answer your question, there really is no fixed formula, but essentially the same things. Human connection, AI and tech, personalization and curation, they're definitely safe and best bets be it B2B or B2C. So coming back to Dheeraj's line that I think stays for this session, just some sit up really. Dheeraj, there's another line that comes, it's an observation by a viewer. I'm going to read it out for you. In a world driven by AI, we really need to maintain the simplicity of the story. The stories that touch the heart and remain with you. And really, it's the simple ones that dug there. Data-driven storytelling can often get too over complicated, but completely get what Dheeraj said. Just wanted to read out that statement for you. But again, Prachi, when you spoke about leveraging AI, Dheeraj, the next question goes to you. Even when I look at these emerging technologies, you have AI, you have VR, you have AI, you have now the Apple Pro, when you look at all of it, how do you further the storytelling because by leveraging these tech pieces and how much is too much CGI adds? When will they stop? What do they really need to stop? So I tell you, from the pop culture itself, we used to see love stories in the 80s and 90s and the fatigue came where we saw cinema going nowhere. Then the new kind of stories started emerging. Rakesh came on and he changed the whole narrative of even love stories. So I think the same is happening with any technology. So if you're delivering storytelling through technology, you have to see the two part of it. One is that what you're creating out of that technology and how you're creating the experience with that technology or with the subset of that technology. So storytelling created by technology and delivered by technology and the experience that goes to the consumer. And also when we see that technology delta, anything that comes, it overwhelms us. I don't even know 10% of it. But if you know that 10% of it also and you are doing it very well, I think you are winning the heart of your consumer. It's just that sometimes we overcomplicate things, sometimes we want to go overboard with the technology that spoils the whole narrative storytelling and so on and so forth. So the comment that you read, I slightly disagree. I don't think that AI spoiled the storytelling. If you are a good prompter, I mean, you can create a nice story because from where the stories are coming, AI is also taking algorithm from the empirical data and then the empirical data is actually dug out by us cleverly. But as a creative director, it's my responsibility to learn how to write nice prompts. I'm a writer myself, but writing a prompt is not my skill. So writing a prompt is a next thing that all creative people should know. And that prompt will enable them to either sharpen their idea or create a new idea. And suddenly, they'll get surprised by some really, really great insight that AI can throw at them and they can build that further with the help of another technologies. Wow, I'll divide the group a bit further. Data sales, it's again a question. You can take it as a question, you can take it as a statement again. Data sales, a movie like animal will be a commercial success. Dill says to produce citizen gain, right? An Oscar winner, but a box office lot.  And what will brand managers and brand owners choose first? Will they choose data? Will they choose the animal or will they choose a citizen gain? Look, if the producer is saying, I'm putting 52 rupees, I want to make it 100 rupees. Then I'll choose the animal. Okay? So I have a candid conversation with Mr. Bahid Bhat Sahib during my radio days and I told him that, you know, I want to be an aspiring filmmaker. You know, if I want to tell my story in three hours, but you know, now multiplex says that, you know, you have to cut down your story to two hours, one and a half hours so that they can fill more seats. So he said, what a good thing to say. He said, first convince the producer. Once the money comes into the bank, then do what you have to do. Right? So I'm saying it's the objective of, you know, if it's a business, then of course you have to balance the things. But if it's something that you want to do from your heart and the partner in the crime is with you, then you have different charges to me. Yeah. Sometimes you need to do both. Yeah. Yeah, but sort of, I'd like to just say something there. We are also moving into an era. You know, I like the box office analogy that you gave, which is that for anything to win, it needs to be a mass resounding success. But when we get closer and closer to a data driven and real time creative response, which is also creating personalization at scale, then something like a lowest common denominator box office parameter will go out of the window. You know what I mean? In a sense that what I, so there will be an animal. So to give you a very, a very simplified example, there will be an animal movie that you watch in your VR headset, which has a different ending from what I watch and what is delivered to me. Now, people will start investing these experiences and not really worry about whether the weekend collected, you know, 10 crores or not, or 100 crores or not. It's about what I got out of it. Absolutely. And I guess we are, if you look at OTT, this is what it is. I don't care whether a family man is a hit or not. I don't even care whether the OTT platform got 3 million more subscribers. As a result, that attribution, they know. I don't know. I'm only sitting there to enjoy my show and I may enjoy something. I mean, I may put up a review later. There may be people who look at a review and not watch it, et cetera. But we are also moving into a world where people are becoming extremely self-indulgent and selfish saying, I like it. And I guess this whole bedchall of running behind, hey, again, consumers behave like that. Weekend data tells me that it's a good movie. Lower output tells me that, but if you look at a highly mature audience and that's where OTTs are all going, which is that you like something, you watch it, you indulge in it, you binge on it. And that's exactly what Dheeraj was saying.  At the end of it, it is their indulgence. I don't think Sandeep Reddy Wanga went and asked people what he should make. He just made it and it collected 700 crores. So that still should be always be given that X factor and data can only point you at many directions and help you create more outcomes. I guess that's the way I look at Dheeraj's, I build on Dheeraj's response on this. Sorry if I took a bit of time on this. No problem at all. I couldn't agree more, Hari. In fact, even personally speaking, I exactly bang on with the OTT example because there your choices are so eclectic. I mean, you may be watching a Polish subtitle one day and a Malayalam film the other day. I think that's really what you want to consume versus what the world is telling you works well. And I have this criteria when I look at IMDB reviews as well because I have only that much time to pick a movie. I know that certain genres will never get more than five and six. Certain genres which I like. So long as there are six, there are 10 for me. So I go ahead and I watch it. So I think that's the world we're coming to. We want something that resonates with us and not really what's the lowest common denominator, as Hari said. Wow. I am thoroughly enjoying this conversation and so are our viewers. They are... I can just keep on scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. There's this beautiful one that I want to leave it open for anyone in the panel to pick up. We all... And I'm just rephrasing it to make it a bit more relevant and pertinent. We all know we've used GPTs. We have used perplexities of the world. And we've made our email shopper. We've made our briefs shopper. We've made our output shopper. We have done it all right. We all do it on a regular basis. We should do it on a regular basis. What happens when tools like Sora and mid-journey, what does it do to the creative world? Does it change it? Does it break it? Does it evolve it? What does it do to all fast? Anyone? I think I'll go first. Did somebody else want to go? No.  We have a platform called Marcel. I'm actually quite tempted to share something about our platform.  So, and I think right now, 30% of our workforce is actually indulging on this platform, which is not a big number, but it's a new thing. But basically, I was sitting in the lunchtime today with some of our Bombay office kids and casually asking them, are they using Marcel and two of them said, yeah, we use Dali 3, which is an image generator. And then we also have runway ML, I think, which is the movie maker and everyone's playing with it. So, you know, right now, the excitement that I see among all the creators in our system, and myself included, this is my favorite pastime on weekends when I'm not rolling some political account on Facebook. I'm actually playing around with the prompts, as Dheeraj put it, great prompts give you great stories. Now, the thing is the system is not evolved enough to give you that degree of precision, you have to be very good with your prompts. But what it does give is not an output. I still feel that what you, what creative people and storytelling storytellers are getting out of Dali or Mid Journey for that matter is a great input for their final output. Like, I think, and I'm not sure if people are doing it 20 years ago, 10 years ago, if I had to storyboard an ad film, I will call an illustrator from the outside and tell him, you know, then I would pay him some thousands per frame and then give him a week, then a storyboard would appear. But today, visualization of stories becomes so much more easier with these tools at our fingertips. In a day, somebody can crack it, you can crack treatments, you can actually bring the whole script alive. So the inputting process and the presenting process has actually become much more richer than Dali giving you the ad for the final visual. That's not what it is meant to do. So it kind of turbocharges inspiration. It turbocharges even a person who's otherwise perhaps not good at drawing or visualizing. But if he has, if he or she has a picture in the mind, this helps them, enables them to do their job so much better. And I speak about this so, and I could keep going on because I'm simply fascinated with these toys. And thankfully, we have actually put the power of this into all our employees actually in our group. So I think that's what it is. Don't look at it as an output deliverer. Look at it as more of an input enhancer, enhancing tool, in my opinion. Dheeraj, put the power in the employees. We did something very similar, slightly different. We put power back in all our readers and viewers. On budget day, we had a specific GPT, a specific chatbot that we created where all our users can come and ask whatever that they want to talk about the budget. All the questions, what happens? What is this? What does that? What is LT, GCT, PQ? What does it mean? And when you ask all of these questions, you realize the wit and depth of engagement that the bot can provide. This bot too, all of us see of us as a media organization. I see of us as a media and a tech organization. This entire chatbot was created by us in-house where it was trained specifically on all mint stories that have been carried thus far and it was custom created to handle all queries that come in and around budget. Now imagine taking and giving so much amount of information in a credible yet interactive manner as how stories move ahead. But I'm just coming back to you again. If you look in the future now, what are the challenges that you foresee brands will face specifically when it comes to data-driven storytelling? Is it always the mind? It is hard balance, of course. But what are those specific challenges that all of us need to brace on? Yeah, I'll run over that pretty quickly because I was actually thinking about this when we were prepping for this talk. And I guess one of the biggest things is that there is like what Dheeraj also said in his last question, there is this format repetition. One thing happens and everyone wants to do it, then it follows, then it follows. The freshness and the surprise element of that format itself kind of loses the sheen, right? Format fatigue. Yeah, format fatigue is what we call it. But how imaginatively we do it is, we'll do the stand out. So yeah, there will always be 20 followers to someone who's done it for the first time, but there will always be the 21st one who's again kind of broken some new ground with it, right? So that's one definite area of concern. And then second, of course, we have a whole lot of conversations around ethics and credibility of people which get impacted. We were actually recently working on a pharmaceutical company, a health-related product. And a lot of people, especially when you bring in influencers, they are hesitant to disclose their personal health issues, etc. So there is a lot of authenticity, transparency issues which one needs to take care of. So we need to respect ethics. We need to respect facts, etc. There's a lot of data is also unfiltered, as we now know. The third thing is, there is the whole aspect of cultural sensitivity and localization. We have a, in India itself, we are a land of many countries as we know. And there are lots of nuances. So when you use high-tech data-driven signals to create stuff, there's also a lot that gets generalized because of simply what the machine has learnt. And sometimes they also miss some nuances which then some, you need to put a filter there and see who's editing it, who's looking at all of this. It's something getting recently, Google got into some kind of controversy with their machine-learned model. And of course, even now we are talking in Bombay, across Bombay and Delhi, we also need to understand that there is a huge digital divide. While there are huge conversations about everyone's getting money in their wallets, that is still very low-tech. We are still talking about a whole lot of stuff which requires a lot of bandwidth and frequency. So yes, while we do the new things, there will always be the conventional and the old. So it will coexist forever in our country, definitely. Digital literacy is still at an infancy in many other places. Bandwidth is still an issue in many other places. So the experiences that you want to deliver will not be delivered everywhere. It will only be delivered to, say, the top 2% or 3% of consumers. And last but not the least, like I said, my own example of publicity where the adoption of technologies, even when we make it free, people leave a lot to be desired. People have to get the time to embrace it, adopt it, learn, upscale. There's a skill gap. At this point of time, we are looking at a handful of people who are kind of using all this, but we really need to train a lot of people. Apart from training machines, even people need to be trained. They need to start getting comfortable with using this. When ChatGPT came last year, the only conversations I was hearing was, will it take our jobs? Every time any new technology comes, the first response is that of resistance and skepticism and doubt, saying, is this going to be a threat to me or is this going to aid me? And that is like, it's a domino effect. So we are still living in a place where everyone's not embraced it fully. So these are some of the challenges that I see in this journey as we go along. But then, yeah, like humanity always triumphs and I guess we will move forward no matter what. Yeah, absolutely, Hari. I reminded most of our storyboards now are done on using prompts, using any one of these. Masks are getting done there. Beautiful place and a time to be as well where all of us need to re-skill, upskill, specifically to also a comment that comes in what happens to the stock images and videos and stock music that are used for making creators, what happens to those poor guys? They will also be used because a lot will be built on top of that, right? Because they will become input variables. They will not really become output variables and every business, people have to evolve, right? And people will find a way to evolve. A lot of people ask me what will happen to copywriters. I tell them they'll become prompt engineers.  It will give him the best picture in the world. So every writer out there needs to know that he or she is also a potential prompt engineer. You know, the word engineer should not think that you've studied in quota or something. So it's got nothing to do with that. But you can engineer a problem. People who can craft words will win in the AI world. Let me tell you that if you're good with words, if you're good with good old word storytelling, you will be the best user of this technology and you will be in demand. There will be stock images, stock videos will still be in demand because someone needs to put that in to get a better output. Machines have to learn from that, right? So we'll all live and learn. In fact, one of the best analogies I've heard is it will do what a dictionary did for the English language or a calculator did for the world of mathematicians. I think if you suddenly start looking at it in that perspective to what Hari said, there's just one fear I have though is that there could be a lot of more, you know, the mediocrity of work may go up simply because now it's so much easier to generate it. I think some of those filters, which is where you put your money behind, the quality checks that you do, what it takes to win. I think simply because now the generation process is a little faster, there could be a lot more mediocre creatives out there in the short term. But that's really something to watch out for. But then, you know, that's always there. In the sea of work that we see, there are always that 5% of shiny pieces of work and then there's this ocean of mediocrity. So that will never... I know that's so much easier to generate. So what happens then? So I really feel that, you know, the bar has just been raised and you could call it the bar of mediocrity as well. It's just you start from a higher level and then you... And as Hari mentioned right now, if you've got that skill, you'll be able to sort of, you know, take it from point A to B using the help of AI also. So I think mediocrity somewhere does, you know, get recognized and does get pushed away. Yeah. If I see it counterintuitively, if I look at it, you know, if consumers are going to use this technology, they will become creators themselves and they're going to create superlative work. Now brands need to compete with them. Right? So from that lens, you know, if brand work is not standing out, it will become a mediocre work. Right? So, you know, as a content creator today, if you have a great story that, say, a tea brand want to say, then creator wins. I say, oh, this is my story. Right? So I think this is also going to happen. Yeah. Absolutely. But I will... Coming back and building on Peter's point, how do you now measure success? Great that you have raised the bar on mediocrity. Great that there are shiny pieces of work and then there's that ocean and then there's Mariana trench. How do you now measure the success of all the storytelling efforts that we all collectively put together, storytellers or storytellers? Yeah. How do you measure that and how do you measure higher order matrices? You know, I think one of the times of the world where vanity matrices like reach and impressions work. Right? How do you measure the higher order deliverables that a brand strives and wants? So Sarab, I think this question is right at that cusp of story sellers and storytellers that you introduced us at and it invariably comes up when you have an idea you're so excited by everybody's soul. Round one, round two has happened and then everyone's asking, what's it going to do for the brand and business? I think you're the one thing though I do want to say is that it matters to me whether the brand we're talking about is doing it as a one-off and a brand which is a real content marketer because there is a difference between the two. And sometimes you can't look at it in the same lens. Somebody who's doing it one-off has perhaps a very specific purpose.  And like you're saying the vanity metrics, I think they're all today, a lot of it driven by paid media. But I think if in the brand's own brand health or in your business, they start seeing an impact. I think then for them that one-off has perhaps done something. But again, it needs to be very isolated, very specific so that you can attribute it back. I'm far more excited by the world of content marketers because I think they put content at the center of what they do. That's a lot of D2C brands if you see today, you know, whether it's beauty brands, it's fashion brands. I think they've completely leaned into the world of influencer marketing and content partnerships and Amazon mini TV series and that's driving sales. I mean, I don't think there's a bigger example of that. And a lot of what they're doing is, they're not on those IPL jerseys and they're not doing all of that. So I think to me, it is about first identifying your ambition on content, what are you using it for. I think introspecting on whether that brand is a one-off sort of, you know, finding your feet in content and therefore what the metric should be versus really saying that, you know, this is a sales driver for me and I'm going to be always on. I'm going to, you know, sort of be known what I generate in terms of content. So that's how I do it. Just quickly, I want to add to everything that, you know, also the shared purpose with consumer for example, for the finest example, I can think of GoPro, you know, giving their cameras to consumers and consumer creating content for them. They don't even need a brand ambassador for their brand, right? Everyday consumers are creating because they've figured out key, okay, they use GoPro for their content and we are the enablers for it. So I think the shared purpose is that they want to showcase their side of the world and we have a enabler for them, right? Coming together and brand is becoming publisher along with the consumers, you know. This is a fantastic example, you know, where it's always all content which is always content. Yeah, absolutely. But tell me, Dheeraj, again, how do you do that delicate dance and pretty sure, of course, you'll want to push the creative boundary, you'll find a simplistic idea that you want to connect users and consumers where but you also have to stay true to the branding force and also deliver results and tangible ones at that. Not every time you'll get a producer that signs that 100 crore or that blank check for you. How do you approach this challenge? How do you solve for that ambiguity? So you have the guardrails of doing content, right? You have those guardrails. So if you have the boundary of the school, you have to play in it. And if you have a field, if you have a cricket field, you have to play in it. It's a very simple mechanism. We have guardrails and sometimes limitations become opportunities, right? So once you have these brand guardrails, you need to figure out how beautifully you can deliver your story. And as Hari rightly said, there's only 5% shiny work. So I think that's the balance that you need to maintain. Also, what season are you coming? Just wanted to remind everyone. Right? But again, you know, just wanted to add to what Afril said, you know, it just sticks on to and sticks with me. You know, there was this brand that I was talking about. I was talking about this brand that we were working with. Can't take the name, but was one of the largest mobility players. They don't call them camp services or mobility players. One of the largest ones are that. We were working with them and they came to us that, all right, specific market, driver acquisition campaign. But I also want to boost awareness. I also want to look at here are three specific drivers that I want to be affected. And we created that whole campaign for them. Right from control to expose to BLSS to NPSS. We did everything for them. And we had to show through five different matrices that, you know, whatever that you're doing is measurable is impactful. And you know what? You're not taking you for a ride. We all have those consumers who are cynical and we need to tell them and convince them so that, you know, the next campaign and the next execution for them is all lined up. That's how you create value. Rachi, the final one goes to you. What advice would you give to brands, market dealers to elevate the current storytelling efforts, you know. Thira just really summed it all. Of course, we are important yet scarce yet you know above mediocre if you know, you know, the bar of mediocrity has risen, right. He spoke about it. You know, now when you look at all of it, the entire community what is that piece of what is that piece of advice or pieces of advice that you'd like to give to all of them to elevate their efforts, especially in this age that is changing. Absolutely. It's a very challenging environment today. There is a lot of clutter and because of the digital landscape, it's an ever-evolving landscape, right. But there are upsides to it as well. You know, you need to understand your audience well because that will result in better storytelling. It's very easy to understand your audience today because, you know, you've got access to first-party data you're listening to their social, so there's no one-way communication anymore.  So you should capitalize on that, integrate all the data sources that you have, so that you can make an informed decision making. I think that's the first thing that I would request everybody to sort of, you know, think of. Second is, of course, exploring new age platforms of relevance. Google Meta, GenZ definitely, GenZ is moving to discord.  I think that's one thing that we need to also look at. Technology, I don't think that we need to stress on. Everybody's talked about the importance of AI, QR codes and all of that. Any tech that enables your experience is important. It's very simple. The fact that, you know, you can actually just check out yourself. Everything that eases your experience, I think, is critical. So I think, yeah, technology is going to play a very important role. But most importantly, I just want to end with this because I really very, very strongly believe in this. I think staying authentic through anything, anything that changes, your format changes, you know, platforms change, but I think staying authentic, there's nothing better than that. There's nothing better than being yourself and being consistent because that always pays. So I think that's something that brands should also consider. And thank you so much, Prachi. Thank you so much, Hari. Thank you so much, Thiraj and Avril for sharing your insights and opinion on the topic of discussion today. It has been a fun ride. It has been extremely interesting and I'm loved and amazed by the kind of questions and the number of people that we have watching this in. Thank you so much each one of you and for asking such pertinent and sharp arrows at all of us. You know, from the evolution of narratives to the challenges and opportunities that are presented by emerging tech, I think all of us collectively, all of our panelists have provided some insights that I hope you have all written down in your notebooks. I know there are a couple that I need to frame and send across to friends. I know that the intricacies of crafting compelling stories, data or without data, Chai with Beloyag, is very, very important. I think we need to balance creativity and tech to create campaigns that really cut ground, that really break ground and at the same point of time operate within that cricket ground that we need to all operate in. We all need to also balance and blend tech in those traditional maze of means of engaging people in tier two and three. We need to also balance consumer trust. That's where people and brands and platforms like us come and play. We also need to bring about significant authenticity in storytelling and that's how you start measuring, be it the vanity matrices, we are all people who love vanity, we continue to love them, be it vanity matrices or higher order KPIs. We measure them all and we bring them all for brands that stay ahead of the curve, stay with the consumer and change and evolve with them. Guys, this was a fantastic ride. Thank you each one of you for being a part of it, love every single part of it and can't wait for the second one to happen soon. Thank you guys. Thank you so much everyone. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye. Take care.