Webinar Every now and then I see a little bit closer to I get that Stumped you. I stumped you. That was painful. Can we start over? No. No, that was the one we're gonna leave We're leaving it Turn around right now Everybody sign up for the web It's a webinar about maps It's the webinar you've been waiting for It's Okay, that was good, bro. I like I had to make up for that. I like how you'd not only sing the lyrics Yeah, cuz very few people do this now. Hmm sing the lyrics and play the instrument instruments with your mouth Yeah, so you do the whole thing Well, that's what I did in the band like I was like what do you the guitar rhythm guy? You didn't play the but what do you mean you played the instrument though wasn't with your mouth? Yeah, you didn't show up.  We're doing a live webinar. It's free to anybody Who registers and it's us going through our newest? Maps program. We have not released yet. It's maps Prime Pro it is of all of our programs the most corrective in nature really really getting down to the nitty-gritty of All the distal joints the wrist the hands the fingers the feet the ankles the knees the You know your spine I mean it really goes down in detail and it teaches you how to self-assass and then how to correct issues with those areas so that Not only do you avoid things like injury and pain and dysfunction? But you actually improve on all of your major lifts and with along with that comes better results and for the first time What we're doing is we're actually going to go over it and kind of go through it for free So it's not like it's you're gonna literally get on the webinar And we're gonna show you the tests and teach you how to perform the test And we're gonna teach you movements to correct imbalances that you may find within these days I'm gonna have Dr. Brink there with us like really describing all the coaching cues and the things to look out for as you're Performing these exercises and these different techniques that are really gonna take your toolbox your tool Set and it's gonna expand on it on an incredible level and we're we're not it's not gonna be open for free Forever, we're gonna keep it open for free for now We don't want a ton and ton of people on it So it's better to get on now sooner rather than later because there is a feedback I think option on the webinar Doug was talking about how you can chat and ask questions and stuff And we want to be able to have that opportunity to answer people's questions So I highly recommend you're hearing this now go on there and register Now and that way you get get in the webinar for free the site that you go to is maps prime pro Com so that's maps m a p s prime pr. I am e and then pro pr. Oh Com and then you just sign up for it and then on the 13th you get to watch the webinar Let's roll if you want to pump your body and expand your mind There's only one place to go mind With your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews in this episode of mine pump In the beginning me and Justin make fun of Adam for a quick second But then he comes back and explains what's going on We talk a lot about mobility and then we talk about the benefits and detriments of unilateral training That's where you train one side of your body at a time versus barbell training where you train both sides What are the pluses and what are the minuses of each and how would you incorporate both of them to? Maximize your overall results and then we get into some diet reviews We actually review spicy we went on Doug went online and he found five popular celebrity diets and we broke them down and Reviewed them and told everybody which ones are good which ones are bad and which ones are absolutely horrible the diets We go over are the five-factor diet then we talk about the pressed juicery diet the alkaline diet We talk about Courtney Kardashian's diet, and then we talk about our favorite The M plan yeah We teach you all about these and then we tell you if you should waste your time doing your secret It's magic exactly in this episode check it out dude. How funny Justin how funny was it? Were you getting the same feeling I was getting yesterday when Adam was demoing his Yes, so Adam did this real important impressive very impressive thing especially for a big dude He did a From his knees jumped to a pistol squat Came up bent over all in one leg never switched legs or anything or went on both legs And then did a single leg deadlift with 100 pound dumbbells in each hand Very impressive he had to practice a few times doing it yeah to kind of get the hang of it right because it's a Skill it's a technique you're talking about being nervous when Jordy got in there Although I think mechanically I think it was my form We can make it look pretty and then afterwards we're like immediately At some point at some point guys I hate to break this to us because I'm breaking this to myself too So I'm like talking about a bit at some point You're gonna get your ass kicked in some way shape or form by some dude mainly because he's younger This isn't true yeah, no, that's why you always have to just make more money than them You guys throw that at them. Oh, yeah, we totally one in one up on some other way, right? Wow. You've got crazy energy. That's awesome cool How many books have you read this? That's cool. It's life experience. You see my watch it costs more than your car.  Mm-hmm. Anyway, did you guys work out yet today? No, yeah, why? Why you're the only guy that really likes to do the morning win like what time so what I haven't had time today What's your trainings look like right now Justin? Are you following a set? Like this is my goal is what I'm doing or you go or you just go in there and decide I'm gonna do this and have you bought any online programs. Yeah, what's your deal? Yeah, no, I don't do that Like I I have a very specific kind of agenda in my head Like I got to accomplish at least like two of these compound lifts like for me It's if I could just stick with that I create a workout around that So what's today's compound list today's is squats and overhead press. Oh, okay. Yeah the last last time Yeah, I see you're going with the exotic lifts very exotic Like let me think what is Justin, but I'll but you know what I'll be honest I'm I'm actually gonna incorporate some like Bulgarian split squats I've been like listening to people talk about them a lot lately What's up with that? I don't know, you know, you know what it is It's unilateral training is getting a lot of attention Because there's a little bit of controversy actually like I was just listening to a conversation with Mike Boyle talking about why he doesn't do back-loaded squats and was articulating his rationale for that with his athletes and the way that he trains and actually he Presented a pretty decent argument with I feel like I feel like I can argue that I think I think there's a lot I mean we when you think about when we walk We're always in a semi single leg squat or split stance or a ball. I mean that's it's really about the and who is it Dr. shallow dr. Jordan shallow explain how Having one of the legs going back and one of them forward places the pelvis in a particular position That is very functional in terms of how it displays strength But when of course like everything right someone will be like, oh, this is why it's better So that's what you all you should do. Yeah, no, and I think too like to his credit though like he kind of I Mean he his mentality is I'm doing what works with my athletes that I I test out every single day and so he kind of looks at a lot of current Like researched items that are getting more notoriety and like certain gurus that kind of pop up that have a very specific research backing Idea and he sort of either takes it, you know with like I've been doing that already or That's something I haven't been doing.  So here's a here's a theory that I would have on comparing Let's say a a split-stand squat or a lunge or a bug out Bulgarian split-stand squat or versus a barbell squat if you were to compare and this is just a My prediction if this study were created if you would compare groups to see which one resulted in more Functional carryover strength to let's say as some kind of a strength-based type sport Maybe like football or something like that with a little bit of aerobic, but mostly anaerobic Mm-hmm I think in the short term the back squat would result in better results and then maybe in the long term You'd start to see that the split-stand stuff would be better And the reason why I think in the short term the squat would be better is this less There's less skill involved so you can get in the squat learn it kind of faster and then really start to Maximize output whereas with the split-stand stuff There's a lot. It's just more balance involved more skill.  Exactly, but like I said as a foundational strength to pull from so you've increased your Your capacity for you know more strength now. I'm gonna get a focus on my skills of Yeah, I'm gonna strengthen, you know from a unilateral perspective Because that's what I'm gonna be functioning with primarily so that's always an argument right that and that's been around for a long time Like when am I using? When am I bench-pressing in this sport? When am I rowing in this sport? So for a little while their trainers were literally taking the movements From the sport and mimicking mimicking them with resistance, but we know how super specialized So we know how bad that worked, right? It didn't work out the way they thought I think strength There's a couple things with strength that you want to look at number one. It's a skill So there's a lot of skill involved with the strength Which mean which is why it's important to practice your sport While you're training because if you just get stronger and don't practice applying that strength doesn't mean anything But I do skill will diminish but it's yeah based off frequency exactly at the end of the day though Like like maximal strength is kind of that foundation that contributes So much more to the other pursuits than the other pursuits due to the other one So like it's gonna make you faster. It's gonna make you more explosive. It's gonna increase, you know balance stability more so than in terms of contributing to other factors more so than the other Individual factors, you know I'm saying so that's why I think like if you take like a boxer You're not just doing resistance with a punch, which actually believe it or not it's terrible for boxing so throws your timing off But you know, you they're gonna do great from getting some base strength and then applying that maybe in the ring with their training and stuff That's just my that's my opinion what I what I found fine with the unilateral stuff Especially with legs like when you talk about a single leg squat Bulgarian split stance a single leg deadlift Which you see me doing recently It's it's really amazing when especially if you do stuff like like barefoot, right? So I'll go do like that single leg deadlift really heavy barefoot like three reps and then after I do that on each side It's amazing to go grab a barbell and go do 400 400 pound deadlift and feel how connected I am to the ground because of the Stabilization and the and the control that you have to have on a single leg Everything has to be there's no room for air like there. I like less room for air. Yeah, I like evaluating Evaluating that like your true strength with you know a balanced form of that. So Therefore if I split I'm working on one individual side at a time to build them up But I don't want to get too far, you know where I'm over dominant on one side versus the other You know which could happen, but like I I want to be able to express You know an overall strength pattern and so that's why I do still stick with barbell training because it's you know It it's not very specific sports specific But you know that's like I want to see how that's translating to overall strength and then also how do I express that? in a more functional Pattern and there's definitely a balance component that results in more Muscle and strength. I will I will say that I'll argue that all day long and and this is one of the reasons why Free weights in in my experience and most people will agree with this at least most trainers Well build more muscle than machines that mimic free weights So like you could do a bench press versus a machine chest press or a deadlift versus a machine deadlifter You know and the free weight ones tend to they just build more muscle And more strength and that I think has to do with a balance component But then there's almost like a negative Like like a diminishing returns and it becomes negative when it becomes too much because if we keep pushing that and have people stand On a physio ball or do everything, you know on uneven surfaces and stuff like that then you stop getting that that effect So this is almost like this It's an it would be interesting to draw a graph to kind of measure that like here's the benefit now You went too far. Yeah, and now this detriment because barbells and you're doing two things on two legs They tend to build more muscle Than the single leg or individual type, you know, unilateral type movements. Now, of course, that's an aversus You know one-to-one basis, but of course you want to do both, right? Well, I think also like I think he argues to a lot of times like the Pursuit of just building more muscle may not be to your benefit, right for sports Yeah, so I mean, you have to evaluate the why and I think that the conversation actually did agree with which, you know I mean some of that like he made good points. I'm not saying I agree with it, but You know at the same time like the conversation of it was interesting to listen to like, you know that perspective like, you know That's why it does make sense You know if if your entire goal like if you can deduce down like what you're physically training for and the why Even if you're just your everyday person like if you can figure that out going into the gym You're just gonna be so much more effective. Yeah. Well, okay. Now. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the The average person I'm not playing a sport, right? I just I want to build some muscle and I want to be in good aesthetic shape But then I also want to be very functional. I don't want to pain I don't have bad hit. I don't have achy hips and achy knees and I want to have good mobility You know, which one wins and this is a good discussion Well, this is where this is a great. It's definitely where you got to weave it out of all and well Let me tell you yeah, cuz there's pluses and minuses to just doing one of them from personal experience over the last couple years right now You know, I've done more barbell lifting in the last two years and I have my entire life for sure Mm-hmm by far and I've seen more strength gains and muscle size than I ever have in my entire fitness career now Which is awesome considering that I've been lifting for 15-plus years. That's not that's rare, right? It's you see the bulk of your gains the first part of sure It's not supposed to happen now, especially been training that. Yeah, and especially being an older guy, right? So And I attribute a lot of that to the barbell lifting to getting into more dead lifting more squatting more overhead pressing 100% now that being said I Also have had more imbalances more aches and pains and more issues with my body than I ever have with that Now there's some factors that I think play into that is one of those is I got very Addicted to the the results that I was getting from the barbell squatting and dead lifting I was gains the gains were coming on fast And I was enjoying it so much that I went from the guy who just four or five years before that was You know constant varying every workout like I was that was what I was notorious for I used to say that I've never Duplicated a workout. I used to really say as a trainer used to say ten years of lifting in my career I've never duplicated a workout. That's that's how I train a train every workout was unique and different And I was always challenging my body in different ways and there was a lot of good that came from that But there's a lot of there was a lot that held me back, right? I think it held me back from getting reaching my potential of what I could get by actually programming better And focusing on adaptation by incorporating more barbell lifts But what I did have that I mean I was very functional and I didn't have any aches and pains I didn't have a lot of imbalances going on and when I started heavy lifting with the barbell It started to exaggerate some of those and now they're very obvious to me Sure, so you have to look at you know, where do imbalances come from and there's a few different places, but any in a trained athlete Many times they come from over developing a particular pathway or skill or you know Over strengthening your recruitment which is easy to do when you're getting after the barbell And well when you're when you're too focused on on one particular thing whatever that may be Whereas when you're constantly constantly varying things You have no you haven't there's really no opportunity to do that because it's always changing But then you get the detriment of not really maximizing There's a there's got there's like a happy medium right like if all you do is like if you just heavy squat and Program squats all time you're gonna get really good at squats or probably build a lot of muscle Yeah, but the odds of having imbalances or aches and pains that result from or at least the common ones That can come from a squat Increased the odds of it increase So, you know, this is why it's so important to program these types of things But going one way or just the other and saying like this is the only way to do it You know people tend to do that. I don't know why they do that. Yeah, you gain so much From all of that all of that stuff like like the way I would do it My if I were to do you know unilateral training the way I would do it would would be is I would make it a phase Mm-hmm. I would do like to that's kind of what I was alluding to like by my getting into squats Like I just you know like I didn't necessarily agree with the points But I'm like wow that just made me think that I haven't done you don't matter unilateral training Specifically with that focus and intent in a long time and so I was like oh I'm drawn to that and also front-loaded squats And so these are two things that I feel like I'm always thinking ahead of that like what haven't I What movement haven't I focused on in a long time and I'm very much more of a movement like specific Like I like I feel like a deficiency in a certain type of a movement I'm not strong like that's what I'm gonna focus on not like, you know My body part or you know bringing my body up or this or that so well when you look at like You know if you're trying to look at it like a trainer or coach who's coaching athletes I got a thing and I didn't listen to the podcast or the books that you're reading right now So I don't know if this is true or not But I feel like if I'm in his position and I'm arguing unilateral movements over the back-loaded barbell squat I feel like as a coach I could see it as the risk versus reward That's what that it's it's not that barbell squatting isn't good And we can see here and argue how great it is. It's the it's the king of all exercises But the the risk is much greater than the guy who's doing the Bulgarian squat Or is doing the single leg deadlift because it's such a technical movement And you you have to lighten the load in order to perfect the movement So it doesn't allow so many of these imbalances to come out where I can cheat a deadlift up with both feet on the ground I can't you got to remember he's dealing with a lot of like professional athletes that Yeah rule number one. It's preservation. Yeah, so it's a different mindset Right, you know a lot of them had to really train hard and and and build a you know a crazy big You know muscular frames even get to that level now It's just like like so many forces against them. They have to be able to absorb and react and You know be solid You know in their joints and supportive in their joints And so that's like high priority and you also made the comment about how for athletes gaining more muscle Isn't necessarily or many times is not as the opposite of what they would want to do Yeah, there's a lot of sports where being heavy is always bad It's actually more rare that it's good. Yeah. Yeah, like if you play more If you play football to some extent to pay on your position You want that strength to body weight ratio? It's always it's always that it's exactly that but like almost all sports I can think of even the combat sports the combat sports or weight classes Mm-hmm And one one thing that you that you'll notice especially back in the day when MMA I'll use MMA is an example When the drug testing wasn't as you know, whatever and you saw more of these roided out athletes Is that they would go up a weight class because of this Increased muscle that they got from their steroids and stuff. So now you've got a guy who's fighting at Heavyweight who naturally should fight a light heavyweight and the only way he got up to heavyweight was through the use of antibiotics But now he's fighting a dude. That's a natural heavyweight, right? Yeah, and he's comfortable in that They're comfortable with that way know how to use it. It's not so much muscle Here's the thing with muscle like carrying lots of physical muscle Requires a lot of energy and a lot of oxygen.  I mean I had going through College football like cuz I was in a frame where I was like 185 in high school And I was like my strength to weight ratio was off the charts, you know I was very strong for being 185 and lean and mean and mobile and then go what do you walk around it right now? What do you what do you weigh? I'm at like 230. Yeah, that's a big difference. Yeah, wow So I jumped I jumped up to that and some of your best lifts that you've talked about were done in college, right? Yeah, wow.  I didn't I didn't realize that you were that light I was getting to yeah, I got heavier than that. It's what oh Okay, 185 was high school. Okay, so okay. You're scaring me there, dude I thought you were 185 sitting all these big lifts and no no not the not the big list I talk about I did that in college.  I I mean I did some impressive sort of lifts like you know my bench was always good and Squats but anyways like yeah in college. So they wanted me heavier because I had a different position I was I was inside linebacker. I wasn't outside anymore. I wasn't strong safety And so the so size is better.  Well, so I ended up coming back in season At 235.  Hold on.   Yeah, and it wasn't all muscle. I'm sure Yeah, seriously, oh my god, dude, can I just tell you how like heavy I felt You know like I was just not comfortable in that body and so you're like way bigger Like lost mobility. I lost I lost explosiveness like but I mean I could definitely take a hit and I could you know Unleash a hit on somebody but I was like winded.  So long as your strength comes up and you have this great ratio of strength to weight If that starts to change to where you're still getting stronger But the rate of strength is not going up at all to match your your size. Mm-hmm You're just moving more weight now You're just a bigger heavier person and in some sports like football weight and you know, some weights good, right? Especially if you're on the line or yeah position specific, you know mass So you know just just moving mass physics shows that it's just gonna hit you harder But if you can't move that you're not gonna do well and a lot of sports Like cycling or you know, but again sports where there's a weight class or you know even baseball You want a little you want you want to have a good strength to weight ratio? It's it doesn't it's not it's not the the number one thing But for the average person like Adam was saying who wants to like build muscle The barbell movements are king, but you are going to run into problems If you always live there. Yeah, if you live I've done this I've done this Countless times to myself because I love barbells. I love barbell lifts I love heavy pulling and squatting and pushing a lot of stuff and I've developed imbalances and overuse injuries as a result. I had shoulder surgery had my AC joint resected It's probably about 10 11 years ago Maybe longer actually probably 13 years ago and it was because I had pushed bench press so so much for so much of my life And I had become so one-dimensional that I had created an imbalance and had to get surgery Then I can't and I can never press like I did before now as a result I've had to hip bursitis from just squatting heavy all the time and you know not working on the unilateral stuff And even till this day my unilateral work is like you could see what I could lift with a barbell and It's and I should be able to lift so much with a dumbbell or unilaterally and it's not even close to that Yeah, because that's something I focus on so which is now believe it or not Ironically now that I have a garage gym. I'm gonna probably do less barbell movements Which is funny considering in a garage you tend to do more but I've got I'm gonna be doing more unilateral stuff So that's a big priority for me right now. So I've I started incorporating that maybe a Month or so ago and you know that video you're talking about that. I shot was kind of a progression to that Of me been work. I've been working on this So that wasn't the first time that I obviously attempted something similar to that so and I do I'm at 220 now So I'm weighing 220 and I'm still able to do stuff like that So we're gonna see how far I can get with my weight While I maintain that and a big part of me being able to push the weight and still that is actually unilateral movement So I've already done that and that was already a priority of mine because I did put that together the last time that I went Really aggressive on gaining was I went so much barbell Then I got really stiff and rigid, you know strong fuck I was strong I was really strong and felt like I put on something my back made gains in my legs made gains Yeah, in the last couple years that I hadn't seen in the previous 10 plus and lifting so that part of it But it also exaggerated these imbalances So I'm and I'm sure those imbalances were there before right and that's what I mean by the what it's because the barbell It's not like because if you lift a barbell correctly and perfect with good form You shouldn't have any imbalances from that But all it takes is to be off just a little bit and when you're pulling up 500 pounds, you know It really exaggerates that imbalance and that's where you get these it's not just that though It's also just I don't care what movement you do. I don't care if it's unilateral barbell Whatever if you do the same thing the same movement all the time Yeah, and this is what and this is I think the bigger problem I don't necessarily think the barbell promotes imbalances as much as people love barbell movements and always inject them like Every like chest they you know people are bench pressing all the time or you know Deadlifting you know every week or squatting twice or three days a week all the time That's I think more what may contribute to problems because it's imagine if you did any exercise all the time Do you think I mean, I don't know if that I don't know if that's a true statement or not because I feel like What we've seen in the last few years As far as deadlifting and squatting it's been a huge and we you know, we attributed that to crossfit, right? And so we've seen a lot more that I mean still blows my mind that I can go to Gold's and actually have to wait for a Squat rack where that just didn't happen 10 years ago, but I still think that Maybe it's just how you'd maybe maybe a better a more accurate statement wouldn't necessarily be how how you often see intensity Intensity how you program it and what you do around. Yeah, you know Yeah, cuz cuz I definitely highly recommend I would tell someone don't ever stop I mean, I think I think a good compound barbell lift should be in every lift, you know Every workout somewhere in there like, you know, like Justin was saying right now like he picks two compound lifts and then builds around that I think that's a I think you just should do some unilateral stuff with that and multi-planier stuff with with that, you know So it's like you do your own specific. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, cuz that's the thing It's like I want to express Overall like, you know how my body's gonna respond and give the right strength signal But now also I want to be joint specific So I know where my imbalances lie and I can address them and build, you know around that and strengthen them I remember years ago. Uh, I was probably I was a kid. I was young I think I was a teenager and um, I always bench pressed always bench pressed And I think my I don't remember what the number was but I got stuck at a particular number And I had read some article 135. Yeah When I was 14, right, I know Uh, and I read some article where some old-time bodybuilder said, uh, one of the best ways to get your Bench press to go up Was to do dumbbell chest press only for like a little while and then go back to the barbell It actually worked. Yeah, I remember that. I remember the exact same really exact same thing. He's phasing it. Yeah It was so but it's I mean it worked. Yeah, you know, I got really I got better at the the dumbbell The same thing when I did um, really like low and intensified, uh ring push-ups, you know suspended ring push-ups You know, it's just like it was a totally different stimulus Now all of a sudden I got even more strength in my depth of my, you know, the pressing movement So it it all contributed it all bleeds into the to the overall I actually used to do something with uh That night you brought that up you brought back a memory of that I had that exact same epiphany right where I was like, oh, shit Let's go this direction and you what ends up happening is you start normally most people start with the barbell Right, and they start barbell pressing a lot and then they realize that They're weaker dumbbell pressing and it's like it's not cool to You know lift 50 pound dumbbells when you could barbell press 225, right?  This is way before maps and phasing and You know undulating our programming like we do now But that's kind of what I used to do in the past is I would just I would stick with Barbell for a while and then when I feel like I'm slowing my progression down Then I would switch over to dumbbells and and I use that for like basically all muscle groups So I would do the same thing for like a shoulder press and then I would work over the dumbbells And then I go back and forth. So that was kind of how I phase those things You know, well it reinforces the stabilization of your shoulder, you know Like so now you have two to accommodate for that are independent And so it just it definitely carries over to now I have a solid You know barbell where I'm like equally loaded, you know as I'm coming down It's like I did all that work stabilizing work that contributed to the overall strength.  Yeah, I mean they Have a popular celebrity things that are going on right So there's a number of diets out there that are popular among celebrities And I wanted to get your take on there are favorite people I'm gonna just just give you my opinion before I even hear them. Okay. There you go They know a lot about nutrition probably more than us. I take all my advice from celebrities Yeah, they are the authority. Are they not? Yeah. All right. Well, I'm gonna start with the first one I found here, which is the five factor diet. Has there been a Kardashian or no Actually, I do have one. Oh, thank god, Doug. Thank you. I have to have my nose Five factor diet. Yeah. And so what this is five components of fitness Yeah, it comes from the number of elements each meal should include Which are protein complex carbs fiber fat and fluids Followers eat five meals a day with recipes that contain no more than five ingredients One cheat day is allowed per week where you can eat anything and everything you like That's guilt-free anything in my favorite diet. I've never heard this is my favorite diet Yeah, yeah, and it's followed sugar butter kids It's followed by lady gaga Megan fox kate beckon cell Katy Perry and so if Megan fox falls that it's a pass for me. Yeah, right away. Yep. Yep. Yep. No I go ahead and agree with you by the way For the for the listeners to know This is what happens when someone comes out with a new diet or something and they've got like some money behind them They get they get get on the phone. They call.  I want to do what she's doing They call super celebrity whatever whoever and then they have the celebrity, you know Answers the phone to their publicist and like hey Is so-and-so willing to say that they're following my diet brand for percent of the sales or for you know 50,000 dollars. I'm like sure and that's it. So I don't I highly doubt they do this the five elements are protein fiber carbohydrates something else and then fluids Yeah, and you have to include all those in every meal and you have to have five meals five meals a day But nothing can have more than five ingredients, right? So what they've done if they is there they've effectively eliminated heavily processed foods Yeah, potentially potentially because I can still get crazy if I wanted to oh, so you okay Wait, so nothing you eat can have more than five ingredients in it. That's correct This and they're supposed to all come include protein complex carbs fiber fat and fluid Okay, you got to give me an example of this. I got to see can we see it on the tv or can you I'll have to find one or read it. That's fine. Okay. I'll dig up. I'm your fatter. Well, I'm trying to I'm trying to build All fluids I'm trying to build a meal in my head right now that only has five ingredients like well chick No, no not that whole meal each and each food in the meal cannot have more than five ingredients So like chicken, bro. So it's trying to encourage whole foods over over something. That's uh packaged and has 15 things Inside of a super junior way to do it like chicken versus chicken. Let's talk about that. Okay. So this is well This is what I think is uh is clever and smart. Oh, wait a minute Here's is this their sample Sample one. Yeah, hold on read read breakfast. Well, it's breakfast breakfast five factor french toast Wow, hold on. Hold on. Tell me what the morning How's the bread morning snack is five factor berry shake I wonder. Hey guys real quick. I wonder how they're making money. He's bread. Just like Do you guys can you guys guess how they're making money? I keep going. Do you have a five factor supplement company? Is it a five? Yeah, so next up is lunch which is chef salad made with fresh lettuce tomato roasted turkey Boiled egg whites and seasoned with mrs. Dash. Hmm They got paid by mrs. Dash afternoon snack non-fat french onion sour cream dip with Yeah, no no fat, please no Dinner salmon quinoa solid salt pepper So it's not an unhealthy diet except for the five factor french toast and five factor berry Five finger fist punch. Well, okay, so Like almost every diet you take a little bit of something positive or a little bit of science and you you gift wrap it with Omega and fox and you give it a very clever name that's catchy Pretty mo and yeah, and it's easy to follow. You know, so it's it's clever, right?      Like someone follow this diet They a lot of people would be better off following this than following Jesus Christ, any diet's gonna be better. Well, I know but okay. Here's the thing. Let's talk all the cucumber diet What I want us to try and do because we all know Doug doesn't even need to tell me the next three or four diets that he found You never know we're gonna be able to shit on all of them But let's talk about like if I had and I would like us all to vote on whichever ones we think is the best I got an idea. Why don't we go through one out of five? What do you get? We'll go through all however many how many how many fingers you give them I give them the middle. All right. This next one is followed by Nicole Richie Rooney Mara And Gwen Stefani. Oh It's the pressed juicery diet. Oh, yes. Let's please not chew six juices a day 1200 calories Oh, wow followers receive a daily supply of juices specially delivered every morning each fresh nutrient packed drink Is designed to replace meals and snacks and all alcohol caffeine and nicotine should be avoided sounds animal Wait a minute.  That is a shitty diet Okay, okay. Thank you. So I feel like the least the five first one was way better than this Yes, come on dude like the first one like if my client came to me said Adam this this uh This is a one finger my five factor diet meal plan is working great for me And I really enjoy it and I looked at it and I over I saw it. I'd be like, okay It's it's better.  Are you kidding me right now? You know what press juicery that's the that's the place we used to get our we get those smoothies Remember we go and have them. They make those coconut drinks. They're really good, right? So here's the here's what I Here's the problem with juices You're eliminating a lot of the good stuff from whatever you're juicing.  So here's another thing you need to understand about supplements and this is a supplement A very effective strategy For a supplement company is to construct a diet Around their supplement You sell the diet but in order to follow the diet you have to take their products So you're not selling the supplement. It's a formula, right? So when they're not coming out saying hey our juices are the best juices They're saying this is the best diet and then you buy the diet and because you bought the diet Oh, by the way, it's uh specifically Hey, man, when I said when I used to sell memberships at the gym I'd sell personal training number one because I knew that people needed it But number two because I knew if they had training They'd have a membership You need multivitamin at least a couple fat burners How does this work right here cleanse one cleanse two cleanse three nothing They just deliver you the juices so you have no food you eat no hard food or whatever. Oh my god Yeah, you just drink them. This would be a miserable. This is good. If you I don't have any teeth So if you're yeah, yeah, you're right if you're bed ridden too If you have no teeth you should try the pressed juicery. How about some juices next one? Yeah, I found this one. It's Victoria Beckham his joy in this one. It's the David Beckham's wife. Yeah. Oh, okay. She's already. I like this It's an alkaline diet so Is diet rich in fruits and vegetables that curtails consumption of acid forming foods like dairy pasta meat and fish The goal to keep the body's pH balance between 7.35 and 7.4 pH balance for her. Jennifer Aniston Kirsten. Good luck with that. Gwyneth Paltrow also like this. Good luck with keeping it right there all day Well, no, you're out. You're okay. Hold on a second. People just know something your body maintains a certain level No matter what it's like so alkaline. It's really fucking good at doing that number one number two this whole alkaline acidic type process that or or sales pitch that people are using with diets and stuff When people tend to eliminate certain foods because they're acidic and replace them with other foods that tend to be alkaline the alkaline foods that are recommended are like really healthy foods like You know spinach and kale and all these amazingly healthy foods And so they think it's because they've made their body more alkaline when in reality That's right.  I think it's gonna So that's really what can you pull that one up, Doug? Can I see that one too? I'd like to see it You'd like to see what the pictures of it? Yeah. Yeah. No, I'd like to see what we're talking about You know, I want to see just in case I decide to get it, you know No, there's no you really know no fear of your body going too acidic or too out By the way, two alkaline will would be bad too alkaline Burns you just like acid does right to either. Is it a base base? Sorry. This is a this is pretty popular right now though the In the alkaline water cleaner.   No, so acid your pH is always kind of the same your body kind of regulates that What do you mean? It's like your body you have a cup of coffee and you're it throws that off That's always it's always moving dude. What are they? It's very sensitive. P your pH balance is very very It's just like a plant like when you When you overfeed nutrient if you give a lot of nutrients like more than your body your body actually needs that a sitting Right, it will it will fluctuate the pH levels up and down So it's it could easily fluctuate. That's why I said good luck at keeping it in that range because a cup of coffee Could throw it off. Oh, yeah Yeah, it's yeah, it's exactly exactly that's a good analogy because vo2 is something that is Forever moving on us and you know, you can manipulate that in a two day And that's so this is what they used to do like they'll they'll take these tests, right? These people will do these like finger litmus tests No, the finger prick test and they'll test your blood real quick and then they'll they'll tell you like Oh my god, you're so far off and then they'll give you these these supplements So like take this for a couple days come back and test and you'll come back and you'll be like It'll swing the other way. Yeah, but no, here's the thing like I'm just I'm looking this up And this is what I thought because I kind of read this The idea that that diets can materially affect blood pH for the purpose of treating a range of diseases Has zero support, uh zero scientific support. There's nothing to support this if you're by if your blood is Actually in acidosis or alkalosis That's very dangerous or potentially serious, but I think you'd know it's not like you're walking around going I'm fat. You know, this appeals to people's like heartburn Like what because you're like, oh acid like I gotta get rid of my acid Yeah, you just gotta eat a better balanced diet. I want to hear the next one, Doug Well, the next one is a headline first off. It says Courtney Kardashian reveals her Oh, that's the samely strict detox diet. No detox. We're detoxing anybody want to venture a guess what this might include In the morning, I have cayenne pepper super antioxidant drink Lemon juice.  She sticks to proteins like fish and chicken and maybe some cauliflower rice or broccoli Following dinner. She's not allowed to eat breakfast for 14 to 16 hours Oh, yeah, and one day per week. She does a 24 hour fast Which she only drinks water and bone broth. Do you know what these celebrities do? You know what?  We've turned it into We've turned it into like a Competitive. No, no, no, it's it's turned into like a like it's a fad. It's a cool thing Like what do you what diet are you on right now? What are you trying?  You know what all these i'm zoning. I'm Mediterranean You know all these diets have in common They're all low calorie. Yeah, right. That's that's that's the number one thing that that's they all have in common Is they all go back to law thermodynamics, right?  Is there a dug? Well, this this this this card out What's her name something kourtney kardashian kourtney her I mean what she's saying doesn't sound bad. No, I know it sounds healthy I'm saying but like highlight the health of it, but they may yeah, they make it sound like it's like It's this cheat like there's magic and she hacked the system. Yeah. No, it's there's nothing wrong. All right. All right. You want more of these Yeah, we want more. All right. Tom Brady and gizelle boon chin. Is that he said that is a hot power couple bunching bunching Boon chin. Justin's like I'd hit it. Yeah. Yeah, which one? Yeah, Tom Brady.  All right. So at least for one of those rings Their diet is about 80 plant base and 20 lean meats They have no dairy. No sugar. No flour. No olive oil. No nightshade vegetables And for tom no strawberries. What is that sal? What doesn't get strawberries? What's the nightshade thing? That's the second time I've heard that this week nightshade vegetables like egg plants. No, I understand what our tomatoes egg plant Like I understand what's the deal with them. Yeah, what what's bad about them? That's the deal So, uh, they tend to be more, um, common in intolerance. So if you take vegetables And you look at the ones that tend to bother people With gastro issues or digestive issues and stuff like that or if people go and get like these actual food intolerance tests that test antibodies Not for food allergies, but for intolerances night shades Are up there and dietitians have known for a long time that if they Uh, that for people with, uh, you know irritable bowel syndrome One of the things that they'll turn to to remove from a person's diet that'll make them feel better Is night shade vegetables. So that's why it's probably in there as being removed And it looks like that's what they did that they eliminated all the common Food intolerant, uh until intolerances people have except for why do they remove olive oil? That's weird. That is weird. I'm offended. Yeah, I mean all was good for your hair. You know, it's good for everything No, that's really interesting with someone like tom brady Who I feel like out of all the people we've named so far is on the the better end of the smarter group out of all these Celebrities. Yeah Not because he's a badass football player I mean a little bias. I'm a little biased because of that too, but Uh, I'd be interested to see if he was put on this diet because he actually had somebody look into It sounds like it because he's avoiding strawberries, too Right, like I mean so what I don't where I don't and I in so far I like the first diet and his diet the best if I'm like if we're voting on like You know, what would I tell someone is a pretty good diet that some celebrity's doing right now? What he's doing is well, it'd be interesting if he had like a continuous glucometer. He had some kind of monitoring His reaction to these different types of foods and maybe that was the thought process where they extracted it You know, so if there was that much thought that went into that specifically God, I mean the individuality It's so crazy like the new science that's coming out with the individual individual responses to food Oh, yeah, it's kind of shit on every diet. Dude. No, yeah, there won't be any more diets Didn't once this gets completely like mainstream It just echoes what what the three of us have seen In fit we've been trainers for a long time. We've been in fitness for a long time That's why we refuse to become my own diet. It's right. No diet diet It never blows me. Oh, it's I never ceases to blow me away when I'll run into people or train people Whose body responds so different from other people. I you know for for a little while there as a trainer I was because we were taught this actually early on that you that not eating Animal products not good because you'll lack certain vitamins and minerals you need to get them From for me, but then as a personal trainer, I had several clients who just They just fell and did their best completely avoiding me altogether And I remember thinking like are they lying and it can't be I see what's going on I mean, it's obviously their individual body makeup So it's so much more complicated than we think so I I mean I'm with you adam I think because tom brady's diet sounds like someone came out right and tested him And said here's what you do because like they eliminated some foods that are actually healthy Like strawberries and nightshade vegetables by the way are very healthy If you don't have an intolerance to him, you shouldn't avoid them well, and I was joking about him being the smartest but What true story of the guy is like the one known as one of the most prepared Football players to ever play the game and like literally he's a goat. He's to the detail on every single thing He's almost as awesome as man. So it Now he already he already blew all that away. Yeah, that's that's no longer. That was a depressing. That's no longer a debate anymore, but yeah, so he So that being said, he strikes me as the guy Who would probably fly the the top researchers? I mean the guys that we get to talk to like that because why we talk all the time like just gonna shit on everybody's diets Like in the future He I mean we're not I guarantee he has access to those type of people He to me is somebody who would actually reach out to somebody to put him on a specific diet for his body Versus kim kardashian or whatever the car they're kardashian. They seem like the type I'll sign this check Yes, that would get a phone call from a company that says listen We're gonna pay you one million dollars or x amount of dollars in royalties the t-shirt Yeah, that when when that much money is depending on I'm speculating too by the way No, actually, this is what I think I read about this. I actually think I read about him Doing a specific diet because he's getting older He wanted to perform better So he followed this diet and training that made him, you know perform the way he did recently, which was very good But um, you know, it makes you kind of wonder with these, you know, especially with these professional athletes The amount of money they make and the amount of money that they invest in themselves and their bodies to perform And how tech is moving in the future It's gonna be very interesting. I mean you guys know that they they've grown meat in a laboratory, right? And they actually have eaten it. So they've gotten stem cells Grown a steak doesn't taste good in a lab and then people eat it and you're right That's what they've said that you're right people say it didn't taste good But I think they came out with another generation of it And it tasted just fine. It's more expensive to do that than to raise an animal But at some point like how At some point you gotta think about like in the future like well, let's super rich athlete So let's talk about is that living tissue? It is it's stem cells cells So are we living you think you think vegans are going to be against that or no because I feel like then it's like that's close Well, no, that's why it's closer to happy. It's like more that's more tofu than it is cow I don't know.  This dude, you know what? Do you know what Justin? I just heard on a podcast The prediction that by to first well by 2046 Is it 45? I think so what the singularity? No, that's not singularity that we actually will actually be able to stay alive forever. Oh immortal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So you guys know that he works for google now, right? I didn't know who he is Great. Yeah. He's like this futurist that has already he's made lots of predictions in the past And they've come true and he uses this, you know, he looks at a lot of different things like Moore's law and You know a lot of different calculations and he calculates You know and figures out that you know the singularity is gonna happen at this particular point And at this particular point we'll figure out this particular this thing and he's been he's been on point It's pretty crazy, but I think he works for google With their ai like department like to create like I know they've put a lot of money into that Pretty interesting. Are there any any diets left there, Doug? Okay. Let's wrap it up with katie perry's m plan Oh, it's only the m plan the m plan. She's gone downhill lately m&m's That'd be a good one. Yeah, it requires you want three m&m's a day It would work three m&m. No, it requires one meal per day to be mushroom-based Oh, no, no, no, no, this is even better yet The diet can magically target specific areas of unwanted fat while leaving the breasts unaffected No, this is great. Oh, that's my winner. That is the best. Yes Please pull this up. Let's not touch some breasts guys. Can I just say something right now? Why don't we why don't we just do why don't we do this? Wow, I love that Here's what I think we should do. I think she looks like a crazy, too Here's what I want to do I think we should do this and only people that will be in on it will be mind pump fans and us Let's make up a bullshit diet.  Oh my god I saw the greatest video it was like this conspiracy that she was like part of the lizard people I swear to god like that russell brand or whatever like left her is they were like She's a lizard person.  We have to watch that one. Dude.  Yeah, oh, I know this what if like one of the meals is all mushrooms Listen, you need to read that you need to read that one more time And you're just gonna target the fat cells but not the breasts the new diet that claims replacing a meal a day with a mushroom with mushrooms Read it all out. Yeah. Well, but well, it makes a lot of sense shed fat But only in certain parts of the body the waist hips and thighs But not the bust good. Yeah. Wow. That sounds perfect.  The mushroom nothing's wrong with mushrooms These must be psychedelic mushrooms Exactly, dude.  There's any science around this one. No, this diet pushed by the mushroom farmers or American God, it's so great. You can tell We're gonna miss a mushroom You see the sidebar all the stuff that gets promoted for Doug because you know, that's that's kind of scary that You gotta put your laptop up on this computer It totally gives away anything that you've been google searching lately because we it just Popped up like because obviously we're doing weight loss and diet stuff the donkey show There was a diet. There was a diet gimmick on the right and then there was the the cameras Which I know you just bought your new camera.  I like to get dildos as tall as I am Now with bolstered grip. I like to wrestle a mind Yeah, um, no man. This is horrible and celebrities promoting this. That's what they do, right? Celebrities promote. All right, dude That's why I did not want you guys started just murdering the first diet and I knew it was gonna get worse Yeah, I knew I was like when I was listening I'm like, you know what for a celebrity diet This is not reasonable. Yeah, this is not half bad. I've seen a lot worse and then Doug just proved me right by going on with the rest Oh kelly osborne does this one too, huh? Oh Yeah It must work for you learn this watching the smurf So just speaking of like like people need to know this like food organizations and unions and groups or whatever They do get together and they do figure out ways to get americans How do we get them to buy into the shoot? No joke. Yeah, it's the grains like the cereal No, no game out of nowhere the cartoon papai with the spinach. That was supported and pushed by Farmers that grew spinach. Well, if you act and it was like healthy things though So if you read the book, but it was brilliant if you read the book hit makers it gets into this actually it's actually really fascinating and uh, disney is one of the biggest culprits of this so they have created just like this Controlling the way We think through these storytelling through these cartoons like like if I tell you guys right now, what food Should you eat if you want to get better eyesight? Dambi no no like what what carrots carrots, right? Yeah completely made up right totally by the industry by the people that sell Carrots, you know spinach or you know milk milk for your bones And your bones like all these different things which is funny by the way, which I bought into like a thousand percent By the way or an apple day keeps the doctor or no remember remember the milk the the bodybuilder that would drink milk like that commercial in the 80s Yeah, dude that I now vividly remember. That's why I wanted to start build muscle Yeah, and drugs are like scrambling eggs. Yeah He's your brain on drugs then it works. Yeah A parent but like Of course, I got the all stoners like I'm hungry.   Why am I losing weight? How about the spinach diet I should be gaining? I'm cheating all the time Here, you know, I think the the moral of the story here is don't listen to celebrities Yeah, that's the first that's the first one Definitely and really I think what people need to take away and I think what we we talk a lot about even when we talked about the ketogenic Diet back then and we talked about the health benefits that we had to be very careful that we were explaining to people that listen We're not saying that this is the diet everybody should follow There's some health benefits to doing that and it definitely fits for some people with special needs and I really think that uh most Diets like that like your ketogenic your paleo. I think there is a Good reason for someone to follow that if it is a Something medically wrong with them that could benefit you got cancer like I could I could see Putting my you know family member that got diagnosed with that on like a ketogenic diet But everyone going after these diets for weight loss Uh, you know really the all of them work because they're all restricting calories I mean, that's the main reason why any of them work I'd like to see a diet that has you eat more calories than you burn and then you lose weight I'd like to see that magic Show me that diet.  Just write it and put it out there. Yeah, and I think people buy will buy it and and again I mean this is goes back to why I'm such a fan of Tracking is that you know just being mindful of what you're consuming the new diet. We're gonna write right just tracking Just the tracking diet to eat whatever you want. Just track because I'd tell you what when you start to look hard work Actually, you have to you're forced to look at what you're eating all day long Sometimes you go. Oh my god. First step is awareness, right exactly awareness diet the awareness. Oh, I wrote that one I call it I think I said first here Somebody you ran with our blubber diet, right? Yeah. Oh the Inuit diet. Inuit diet. Hey, you know what's going on I'm pretty excited all month long, right? What are we doing this month? Probably one of the we're doing the bogey. What are we calling it? It's not all month long. Oh, no, it's till the 12th. It ends on the 12th. The bogey. Damn it You almost got us in trouble Adam the 12th the bogey bogey buy one get one. It's our first Ever buy one get one. So it's the super bundle the map super bundle which has all of our programs The goal is to get your friend involved You know, you have a friend that needs money in their life But they're absolutely too stubborn So what you need to do is blow their mind away with the the fucking best programming out there in the market You need to get them the free one or Trick them into giving you half the money for years to buy it and you get it Yeah, or you could just get them weasel get them to buy it and then you get the free one That's what I'm saying. You're really good. You're real close. But yeah, it's got all the programs. It's a year's worth of training programming priming It's got I mean everything you could want And you get a free one for enrolling for in it. It's the first time we've ever done something like this and it's It's only going on till the 12th So you can find out about it at mind pump media.com also We post a brand new video on youtube every single day. What you want to do is you want to go to youtube You want to look up mind pump tv and subscribe? So that you can get notifications when we post new videos, which is every single day Lastly check us out on instagram my page is mind pump sal adam is mind pump adam Justin is mind pump. Justin and dug is mind pump dug. 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ense for taxpayers we have to have that conversation we cannot delay that conversation anymore the conversation has to start now it has to start seriously we can't just say oh all is fine we passed a budget we're not having this conversation i do not want to harm that town but it is a 36 person school that needs a real deep dive into whether it is the best expenditure for our taxpayers money that we keep asking is like well it's another 180 dollars what's a big deal an 180 dollars it adds up for people and it's adding up for people and we really we if we don't do anything if we don't open the budget we have to start that discussion and if the answer is that there's a viable sustainable path for that school great i am all for it but we have to ask we have to answer that question and if we are sitting here next year saying oh my god we can't close rocks where we haven't had the conversation it's our own fault we we need to start that discussion now if we're going to kick the cam down the road like we can blame the legislature for a bad law we can blame a Byzantine system but we owe a responsibility as leaders as elected leaders to not just do the best we could for kids for education but also to be responsible for our taxpayers and make sure that we we should be concerned about a 23 percent tax increase it's big it hits people in the pockets and i absolutely support education but we have a role in being responsible and eight days is a ridiculous amount of time i think we should do all we can in the next eight days if the idea is not to reopen the budget i am i'm okay with that but for next year we should be cognizant not just of the baseline where we are here but really looking at everything we spend and see if we can give the kids the education that they can have and perhaps maybe even a better education by looking at some of our our systems and making some big hard decisions if we have i haven't heard a civil war member either in public meeting or outside just one-on-one conversations ever say that they don't want to have the rocks very conversation so from what i have ascertained from my fellow board members everyone is ready and willing including public public meeting tonight our two rocks bring members raising their hands and saying i'll be on that committee so i i don't think that the inference that people are resistant to having that conversation is accurate um i i don't think people are actively resistant to it i think when i when when this board has has when when we've got up to it and sometimes it's actually happened before you you were on the board there's not there's not there's not a there's not a resistance and oh i won't do it it's a well before i have that conversation we need a deep dive into our values before we have this conversation we need acts there have been and i don't think it's intentional but there has been a reluctance to just dive in because that does that not true living i would agree with that when the facilities consultant report due may is that a i mean we could start soon we should we can certainly start sooner but we are 21st at least at least getting because that's that's a type of reluctance i've seen well we want to have the conversation but we've got this facilities report coming out in cheer let's wait till that and then the facilities report comes out it's like well boy would be really be great to get this study done too that's the reluctance it's not an active i don't want to start an rbs i would i would totally entertain that motion something i would make a motion that we start the committee to uh to explore the question of bringing rbs students to ues and starting the year 25 that was second i'll say that any discussion i just think it might as well start the committee and then that way when the new board members arrive after town meeting day we can assign committee members and and my strongest feeling is that this needs this committee needs to have um representation of roxbury like the roxbury community needs to be the ones driving the conversation around what happens to their school and if that is you know like ret sort of infer there's some people in that community that want to bust their kids to us you know those voices need to be heard i don't want to make a decision you know at this table with only two one-half votes from roxbury i think there needs to be like a long thoughtful process that include is inclusive of roxbury the roxbury community so i'm in favor of the committee being formed and can we ask for the company's charge to be a little bit broader um and not just be you know bringing roxbury students to union elementary school but um i don't know how to word it but what i'm thinking is like you know to help roxbury you know make a decision regarding your school and their participation in this district because um i think you know i think there are options especially with the new weights for them and i personally would like to help them and understand what's available um so yeah i would like i would be on the committee if it had a little bit of a broader scope yeah and i was paying attention to the roxbury conversation way back when we first merged with them and there was all this like excitement about the possibility that that space held at that time and it was like we could do a early language learner school we could do a nature-based program out there that would be for the whole district so i think i agree with jake just sort of like a broad sort of future use of roxbury and with the the question mark of like does it make sense to start busing those kids to ues so i will amend my my motion to that we started to explore the future of roxbury village school i mean i i think whether roxbury is a town participates in the district is a question for roxbury not the district i think we can examine the future use of the school including the possibility of moving because i wanted to be as close as moving possibility of moving rvs students to ues and refurbishing that building in a way that is most reasonably better for for yeah i think that's the participation of district through their call yeah but yeah and based on the the law the way to initiate that is for three roxbury community members to form a withdrawal committee then the district the board forms a a subcommittee that teams up with that withdrawal committee um and like i said it seems like people really are getting a great experience and we're hearing 50 minute bus time it's a you know everybody throws their hands up so i just i think that it's a really the law is is very calm makes it very very difficult for a withdrawal to happen once the withdrawal happens then you have to have the select board become essentially like a de facto school board for the town and then you have to petition to other town to other districts and then every town in those districts has to have a vote to accept roxbury so based on the law it's almost impossible to separate here um because you have what do you do while you're waiting for other towns to have the vote to see if they would accept you or not but once i got into it i was like oh jesus this is really hard like and i think it's designed that way because it's not designed for a tiny little town that makes up 10 percent of the population of a district it's designed for towns that are 30 percent of a district whereas if you pull out 30 percent you destroy what's left whereas in this case you pull out 10 percent and it's not going to have a big a big impact but that's the way the law is written it makes it really difficult i imagine that's probably pretty complicated but i know that there's precedent um lincoln just withdrew very similar situations um so i think it's possible i'd like to learn more about it um and you know the the thing is like about the student experience if roxbury did have its own district then the middle and high school students could go to the schools that they wanted which would include Montpelier so you know that's true there's no there's choice there is a choice only and we're going out of radical here but only if roxbury is its own district in which case they need to hire a superintendent they need to hire a special edu a special education director they need to have a central office running their finances with a business manager and that that that expense is a lot or they have to join a different district and if they joined a different district then their students would be going to that high school i would be happy to talk with you offline but i mean i've paid attention to lincoln and kind of some of that dynamics and how to sit out and give you some perspective on just you know how some rocks roxbury folks who've been very engaged with us over you know a good decade and how they kind of thought about these things so i'd be happy you know cup of coffee or two um so we have a new motion it needs a second i would like to add just to a discussion when it's time okay would you please clarify the amended motion now that to have a discussion about the future of the roxbury village school including exploring the option of moving rbs elementary students to us in the year 2026 and repurposing that building in a manner that is most beneficial for the roxbury i'll second that discussion and i just would like to say that i am very motivated to have this conversation on behalf of my community members and the parents of young people you know young young children who have no idea what their fate is and they are really wondering you know how this is going to play out for them and where their kid is going to go to to school and if they're going to be bused and what it's going to look like and they too you know as as as does not feel you're deserve a discussion and a decision so i just would like to say it's both of our communities that absolutely uh that we need to do this wayfinding on behalf of both both communities does it make sense to write the charge in the committee composition before having a vote or that could happen after it might it might sound better after okay um me yet i don't know if we can me wants to talk for it she does i'm just texting anna to me we're about to get you you go ahead me up there you can hear me yep great i just wanted to say i am also in favor of creating the committee that's all any further discussion and jill just for the record did you officially withdraw your previous motion i can't i think i can't even though the second right yeah you can't okay i'll i'll hold it for a second i'll withdraw my motion to not be something okay whatever that was i just wanted to be clear for the record that was withdrawn uh so uh all those in favor of the motion i just proposed i any any nays any abstentions thank you now and and i just i i'm glad i'm glad we got here i really believe that community deserves well more than eight days but i think our taxpayers really deserve uh with the numbers deserve us to make sure that doing all we can not just provide the best for kids but to do so in a way that's that's financially responsible um i think we're a motion you know do we have sort of motion to adjourn are we yep my understanding is we're keeping the budget the way it is the way it is john autumn we'll be very happy yes uh so what do you guys the clerk so jake were you saying that if we didn't add like took a million of our fund balance towards the overall budget it would reduce the tax rate but by two cents which didn't seem to be by more than four cents so with the new transition mechanism yeah we went up four cents from what we were expecting and if we did the one million dollars we would go down six cents so we'd be two cents under what we had been telling the community a couple weeks ago i i suggest a lot of the 21st because i suggest we hold off on that discussion until we see what the voters do because as you stated earlier there are some significant expenses that could be coming our way and i would be very nervous if we used our entire fund balance now without knowing what our voters are going to do without knowing what the dollar yield is going to do with all these unknowns i would like to have that shored up a little bit prior to spending significant amounts of our fund balance because of really a prospect of peace and peace in this building quite honestly and just i think i've asked it twice there's no reason we need to do anything the ballot language would not change yes the tax rate would change but the tax rate could change for the dollar yield too um in terms of the dollar yield it's going to have a bigger impact on yes and it sounds like our legislators are open so i say the board keeps it as is doesn't make any decision now and wait if the budget fails then we'll have to make some decisions but we're not in that position right now well if the budget fails you know we can't address it with fund balance it would have to be actual changes to the budget yeah um but we could do both i mean we could we could make some small changes to the budget i mean you know this is you know we have to cut at least a dollar and add fund balance and communicate the community that you know that we have added fund balance to change the tax yes i just wouldn't want the budget to fail and then to be faced with closing rbs and a really dramatic and drastic speedy process so now i agree that and you know one of the reasons that i wanted to sound record is having an rbs process so that's part of yeah so we can respond to this to a failed budget is that we're established to draw a rbs future committee yeah the vr even before a failed budget yeah i think before a failed budget i think they tell them i don't know i like that sunny disposition yes yeah how about before a budget folks so that we voters are informed that we are being brought be brought even worse even worse okay well before adjourn thank you so much for um for all your work i know that you've probably gotten beat up a little the last few weeks um but uh yeah we certainly supported the law that you said behind the law was the right thing to do and we thank you for it and we know the mechanism was wrong but um we are very thankful for your attempts to fix it uh and i i think we will be thankful of those next year when hopefully the you know the ed fund is on a more sustainable path than it was with the cap so we really appreciate you coming and uh sticking with us for three hours because i know you've had probably a long week already uh so so thank you thank you very much um and and thank you for sticking through i saw you you do some some parenting as well i'm sure you're tired also so uh thank you all uh and amma again uh thank you so much for all your service at the board take your name plate and your bedroom door now your service has been tremendous uh including tonight so thank you very much and you want to make the final motion to adjourn i move to adjourn second second uh all is in favor great thank you


Today my topic is the compatibility of Hayek and natural rights. The reason for this topic is the fact that it is well known and does not need proof that Hayek rejected natural rights or was never, it never mentions natural rights. Obviously during his lifetime many natural rights advocates criticized Hayek for this and Hayek did not in the face of this criticism ever change or incorporate a natural rights analysis into his work. Now there are probably many reasons why Hayek took this position. The most, and I won't attempt to be comprehensive in explaining his choice, probably the most obvious reason is that Hayek was as you know an opponent of what you might call rational constructivism. The idea that one can design order, design society, he was much more in favor of a spontaneous evolutionary development of norms, morality, etc. Whereas he associated no doubt natural rights with the constructivism of the French Revolution and other modern natural rights approaches. I think my thesis today is that had Hayek been more aware of or taken into account a more classical conception of natural rights theory he would have found himself in sympathy, general sympathy with this approach and so I have two purposes in my talk today. One is to explain to you as best I can the classical conception of natural rights and the second is to then explain how Hayek's approach is compatible with this conception. Before I begin I want to have one caveat and that is this is not the only conception of natural rights there is it is not the the modern conception and it may not even be accurately describing all the classical natural rights thinkers but I do believe it describes what you see when you read classical natural rights work and by classical natural rights work I refer to 17th and 18th century natural rights advocates. Natural rights thinking the natural rights process of reasoning is what I have described in the structure of liberty as given if then reasoning it's the form of reasoning given if then which I have written on the board behind me and that's the logical structure given certain facts if you want to accomplish certain ends then you had best respect certain means and what makes it a natural law or natural natural law approach I'll get to natural rights in a minute is the fact that it the given the facts are the nature of human beings and the world in which we live so the way this form of reasoning proceeds is given the nature of human beings and the world in which we live if you want to accomplish certain ends then you would best respect certain means now this form of reasoning is extremely pervasive even today is not limited to natural rights forms of reasoning for example it it would apply to any discipline that purports to guide individual conduct it doesn't apply to for example scientific disciplines that are not trying to advise us as to how we should act but it would apply to such disciplines as engineering architecture agriculture any of the disciplines that purport to tell us how we should behave if we want to accomplish certain objectives so in for example in the case of architecture the idea is given the nature of human beings and the world in which we live if you want to build a building in which you can hold classes perhaps hold three or four hundred people then you had best respect certain principles of architecture perhaps including rules governing air conditioning but we can measure a room by its proximity to these principles same thing with agriculture if you given the nature of human beings and the world in which we live if you want to grow crops to feed human beings then you had best respect certain principles of agriculture so we see that this form of reasoning is very pervasive in everyday life now I've had them I've distributed a handout here which I hope you've received it's a one page handout I guess I see some you have it in order for you to see that this is not just my attribution to classical natural rights thinkers I wanted to give you this example of a natural rights thinker he was a reverend clergyman in the US this is actually an excerpt from a sermon he gave to members of the Pennsylvania the Pennsylvania delegation to the constitutional convention of the United States before they were depart to do to convene which is a very common American practice to have a clergyman at that time to have a clergyman come in and give a sermon to the legislature before they begin their session or in this case it was to the delegates to the constitutional convention it's a very long and illuminating survey I've put I've drawn out this one excerpt which I want to go over to show you how this method works and how it represents the way of thinking at the time of classical natural rights if you read it let's read along together the principles of society are the laws which Almighty God has established in the moral world and made necessary to be observed by mankind in order to promote their true happiness in their transactions and intercourse now let me make let me stop here and make one comment about the first sentence well actually I want to talk about the Almighty God reference but let me continue on and I'll come back and talk about it these laws may be considered as principles these laws may be considered as principles in respect of their fixedness and operation and as maxims since by the knowledge of them we discover the rules of conduct which direct mankind to the highest perfection and supreme happiness of their nature and here's an important sentence I've added the italics they are as fixed and unchangeable as the laws which operate in the natural world human art in order to produce certain effects must conform to the principles and laws which the Almighty Creator has established in the natural world now let me stop here and mention this reference to the Almighty Creator it is very common for contemporary philosophers or even non-philosophers to associate classical natural rights theory with divine law or divine will quotations such as this which are very common and representative encourage this association this is incorrect the better way to think of the of this quotation and all like similar quotations is that natural law and natural rights are derived from based upon the order that is in the world there is a factual claim that the world is an orderly place and it is from this order that we use our reason to determine certain natural laws and certain natural rights where did the order come from in this time it was thought the order came from Almighty God from the Creator so under this view the Creator is the source the explanation for why the world is an orderly place but even had there been no Creator as Grosius observes even had there been no Creator a thought which we cannot and let enter our mind says Grosius natural law would still be true because it would be based on the order that we find there so if for example today you reject the idea that the world was created by a superior supreme being but you accept the idea that it is an orderly place nevertheless then natural everything about natural law natural rights follows it is not there is not a necessary connection between these two all right let's continue because now you'll see the analogy to agriculture and engineering as I mentioned before he who neglects the cultivation of his field and the proper time of selling may not expect to harvest he who would assist mankind in raising weights and overcoming obstacles depends on certain rules derived from the knowledge of mechanical principles apply to the construction of machines in order to give the most useful effect to the smallest force and every builder should well understand the best position of firmness and strength when he is about to erect an edifice and I like this next sentence a lot for he who attempts these things on other principles than those of nature attempts to make a new world and his aim will prove absurd and his labor lost no more can mankind be conducted to happiness or civil society is united and enjoy peace and prosperity without observing the moral principles and connections which the almighty creator has established for the government of the moral world so this is the conception of natural rights that I this is a very explicit recognition of the method by which natural rights are to be determined and their stature relative to other principles that we are accustomed to principles of engineering and agriculture and obviously there are certain well so here and so here is let me just tell you now what the natural rights position is because this really describes what I think of as more a natural law methodology we haven't really spoken of natural rights yet we've only spoken of a natural law methodology that from which we derive a natural rights conclusion what makes a natural rights analysis distinctive is what you put in the if what is the end and that end is different than the end of growing crops the end of rate the end of building buildings or even the end of living a good life what we put in the if is different and here's what I would put in the if this is what I think natural rights thinkers put in the if if you want a society in which people can pursue happiness peace and prosperity while living in close proximity to others that's what I think goes in the if that's the objective and the so the whole form of reasoning is given the nature of human beings and the world in which we find ourselves if you want a society in which people can pursue happiness peace and prosperity while living in close proximity to each other then you had best respect certain principles of justice and the rule of law and we define justice by means of individual rights certain individual rights and the conclusion of the analysis well so that's what I think a natural rights analysis is attempting to do now in the structure of liberty I argue about what I I offer a thesis as to what the nature of the human beings are and the nature of the world is such that natural rights are the the essential means for achieving the end of happiness peace and prosperity and the thesis of the book which I will not impose upon you this morning is that there are certain pervasive social problems that all societies must solve somehow and these problems come in three categories problems of knowledge problems of interest and problems of power and I won't define these problems now but the it unless a society solves these problems somehow they will not be people not be able to pursue happiness peace and prosperity and I've written I've sort of written a diagram on the board which suggests that that so solving the problems of knowledge argues for certain rights certain conception of justice in the rule of law solving the problem of interest does in the book I talk about three problems of knowledge three problems of interest and two problems of power so what then is the connection between a natural rights analysis and Hayekian thought I think at this point it may be rather easy for you to see it as obvious as the fact that the analysis that I present in the structure of liberty begins with the problem of knowledge and by the problem of knowledge I'm referring exactly to the Hayekian problem of knowledge that was pointed out in his famous essay the use of knowledge society that professor Becker mentioned in his opening address to you he credited Hayek this is being Hayek one of Hayek's most significant contributions and had he not made any other contribution his career would have been a very fruitful one and I agree with that I have recommended this essay to my students the news of knowledge in society is critical that is how that is the knowledge problem that I that I'm referring to and that is how do we put the personal and local knowledge we have of time and circumstances into action while somehow taking into account all the knowledge of others that we are hopelessly ignorant of so the knowledge problem has two dimensions putting into action that which we know or we think we know about our circumstances while somehow taking into account the the knowledge of others that we can't possibly know now how do we solve that problem we solve that problem as Hayek explains through the use of price resource prices and what makes resource prices communicate communicate the knowledge of the people as to time place in circumstances well it's the fact that you cannot take someone's resources from them without first obtaining their consent this is what the classical natural rights thinkers refer to as the natural right of freedom of contract you cannot take some somebody's rights property from them without their consent it's only because of respect for this right that resource prices have any meaning why is that because if you if there is a requirement of consent before you can take someone's property away then you must offer that person or that person must receive something that they would rather have than what they are giving up so they consent or they could give it to you for free but that's because they'd rather have some satisfaction but let's limit ourselves now to just trans market transactions you must offer a person you must obtain their consent by offering them something they would rather have than what they're giving up subjectively rather have and this injects this need to make the offer and to receive the acceptance injects the knowledge of the person who has the rights the property rights into the price system because it is the price you have to pay to get their consent that begins the chain of communication that prices represent that's where it starts and then from then everyone else has to do the same thing in every price every exchange has to be obtained by consent one after the other and that's in the aggregate how prices contain information consider the alternative supposing that you overrode a right of consent and you just took something from someone because you thought you could use it better then the result in prices if we would even dignify what results as a price by calling it a price the result in prices would lack the information possessed by the first person whose property was taken simple as that it's as simple as saying no right to freedom of contract no meaningful prices so it is implied in the Hayekian analysis of resource prices as the means of solving the problem of knowledge that there should be a natural right or there should be there should be a right to withhold one's consent before a transaction is made and we call this a natural right because this claim that there should be there ought to be such a right recognized in every society is based on the nature of human beings and the world in which we find ourselves so in this respect I believe there is no conflict between a Hayekian approach in and in and a classical natural rights approach and in fact I think that you cannot make a Hayekian approach work without a recognition of the fundamental natural rights of property freedom of contract first possession restitution and self-defense thank you