Hey there Chameleons! Today I'm doing an outfit of the day video which I haven't done in a minute on this channel. But now that I'm living in New York, I'm actually inspired like 100% of the time to dress well. I walk down the streets and I see girls stuntin' on me all the time, so I'm getting really back into fashion, which is so exciting and part of the reason that I moved here. And don't worry, I'm going to be doing a video all about why I dropped out of school and how I moved here and all of that stuff coming up on this channel within the next week. So, I know you guys are asking for that and be on the lookout for that video. And a lot of you guys did notice that I have a front bottoms poster back there and if you guys didn't know, which at this point, I don't know how you would know, but that is my favorite band and I'm a little bit too obsessed with them. I've never been obsessed with a band the way that I am with the front bottoms. But anyways, getting right into the video, we'll start with the face.  But I am planning a really exciting video coming up soon. I just have finished gathering supplies and my roots are like more than an inch right now. But I do kind of like this faded look with like the orange to pink kind of fade. I am digging that and a lot of people that I've met recently think that's on purpose. So, I mean, we'll just pretend that it's on purpose. And then for my face, I just did a simple makeup look. I'm not going anywhere too fancy today.  And as you can see, my highlight is crazy today. Can you see yourself in the reflection? Because you should be able to. This is Champagne Pop by Becca. I decided to go no blush today. Whoa, getting crazy, I know. But I contoured a bit. I did my brows using my Makeup Forever sculpting brow pencil. And they actually behaved today, so I'm really excited about that. I am wearing my hazel contacts. My septum piercing is from like body piercing something. I don't know, I'll link it down below, but it's opal and I absolutely love this one. And it goes with like every outfit because it has just as much swirls of different colors in there. So, I love that. So, if you guys are interested in body jewelry, I'll have it linked down below. And then my nail polish is just a simple nude by Medam Glam, which is like an indie nail polish brand. Now, starting off with the outfit. This dress is from boohoo.com, which is one of my favorite places to shop lately. I've been shopping there for about like two years. And last year I went on a very embarrassing binge. So, I bought a whole bunch of stuff, including this dress. So, it's probably not in shop anymore. But it's definitely a great store if you're looking for trendy pieces that are pretty affordable. I'll link it down below. If I can't find the dress, I'll just link the store. This necklace that I got is from somewhere. I don't know. I've had this for a couple of years. It's probably from like Forever 21 or something, but there's no label on it. And I cannot recall exactly where I got it. I'm wearing simple taupe shoes because it goes with the taupe in the dress and the taupe in the bag. And these are from Target. And I'm wearing them with these sort of sock-ish looking things because I didn't want the socks to show while wearing the shoes, but they kind of fall off and like slip down your shoe while you're walking sometimes, but only when it's inconvenient. And to carry all of my garbage, I have my teddy-blake bag. This is from their new spring collection. And teddy-blake bags are made of sturdy leather, handmade in Italy. I really like this because it's a high quality bag and it's not too expensive. And I love the hardware on this one. This bag is called the Teddy Blake Katie Silver 14-inch and it's in dark beige. And the way Katie is spelled C-A-T-Y reminds me of mean girls. Like you could easily mispronounce that as catty, but I think it's Katie. I mean, don't take my word for it. But I really like the weird structure of this with the way that the hardware closes. So there's this flap right here and you kind of lift it up and then put it through the handles. And then this loop thingy holds it down. And then you can stick these side parts through the holes and then lock it onto the middle part and like clasp it. And it even comes with a lock and keys. So you can really lock your stuff up if you really want to. And the keys are hidden in this cute little compartment. So it just looks like it's part of the bag's decoration. I also have my little hand sanitizer on the back of it just because I ride the subway every day. And I don't want to get sick, which I am. You can probably tell from my voice, but that's Emma's fault. Thanks, Emma. Thank you so much.   I'm just kidding. Emma, I love you. Anyways, I'll link to Teddy Blake in the description box. And I asked them for a coupon code. So I got the hookup for you guys. 20 bucks off any purse that you like. And all you have to do is use the coupon code that is down below.  And is very thin because I just wanted to cinch in my waist a little bit since this dress is A-line. And if I didn't cinch it in, I would look like a triangle. Which, I mean, sometimes I go for that look. But I went out for coffee today. So I just decided, why not try? Entiways. That's it for today's look. Let me know what you guys think about it in the comments down below. If you like this video, don't forget to subscribe to my channel. And I have all the links of everything that I mentioned in the description box. Well, everything that I remember where it's from. And I'll really try from now on to remember where things are from. I've also been using Snapchat lately. So you guys can add me on there. And the easiest way to talk to me is always Twitter. So that is linked down below. But you should really just be following me on everything, let's be honest. Oh, and I just posted a video on my vlog channel about VidCon. I went to California for five days. And I've logged all the cool parts, including meeting some of you guys, which was awesome. So everyone that I met is in that video. And if you guys weren't able to go to VidCon, you can check it out and live vicariously through the video. That's also linked down below. And that's it for today's video. So thank you Chameleons so much for watching. And I'll see you the next one. Kisses.


Good morning. Hello. We'll give it five minutes before we. Get the working group started as. Let people join. All right. How are you going to join? Hey, good. Hey, Nikolai. Give it a few minutes for folks to join usually start at five after. If you drop the meeting notes in the zoom chat, you can add your name. And if you've got a topic specifically like to go over. Add it there. Greetings, Victor. And you say no, we'll get started here in a couple of minutes. Hello, bro. Hello. We'll get started. And about one minute, five after. Meeting notes are in the zoom chat. You can. Add your name and any topic you'd like to discuss today. All right. Okay. So this is the CNF working group. This call is being recorded and the recordings are currently uploaded to CNCS. YouTube playlist for this working group. And. The name of the group may change and locations for recordings and stuff in the future. As we're. In the process of merging things with elephant and creating. The new program for the. Lot of telecom initiative. But in the meantime, we'll continue to meet here until. We've decided on any new change. Is there anyone. Not familiar with this group. What we've been doing in general. For you new. So either of the programs. Let's just get started. I'm going to share my screen. Let's see, we got Gerga and Nikolai. Let's just drop everybody on. Some. Couple of announcements for upcoming events. We have interest for all of us. The. Cloud native. Cube con days. And Guadalajara. It's coming up. And in February. CPS are currently open. I think the next. Well, that'll be the next one. I think North America. There's another one. That'll be happening in. Maybe central US. After that. The cube con club. Native con EU. We currently don't have a collocated event. We've had four cloud native telco days in the past. Trying to see if that one. If we're going to have something like that. It seems like there's an interest for it. But it hadn't. materialized yet. If you do want to see something like that. Then please reach out to. LFN. And the LF event team and express your interest so that they're hearing it. And if there's a demand. And we'll try to work something out. And beyond that's one summit. The CFPs. We're going to close on Friday, but they've been extended to. December 17th. So if you haven't got one in, but did want to, then. Now's the time. Sorry, two questions about the. The. Will you. Stand notification to the fan or like, do you expect that everybody. Separately. To do that. For the. Are you referring to the cloud native telco day? Yes. I think it's a better idea. The more voices they hear. I mean it, you know, if there's some specific thing that we, you think we can do to.  That's fine. Please put that forward. But for now it's. As many organizations and individuals that are requesting. That we do it. I think it's going to help. Beyond that. Anyone. That's willing to sponsor an event like that. Then I think that helps. You know, get people encouraged that are making those decisions to have it. I know that at least a few companies were looking at sponsoring. The EU event because they were EU companies. So. Okay. Thanks. And about the one summit CFP. Extension where, where was this communicated? I didn't get any. Mail or anything about it. Um, I think. I heard. From Ranny at. Last week, but. Did the website looks like. Uh, listening to just type in the website was updated. So it looks like it's finally updated. I don't know if any. Any type of message or announcement went out. Probably be good to drop it on the. LF. Tech. Slack and other places. Okay. Maybe I missed it. It wasn't. It wasn't updated on the website. Early. And Friday. So I. I didn't even know that it had yet. I think we're still waiting on it to get updated. So yeah. I'm not sure if they actually send out any communication, but if you're not in the right place, you never saw it. But anyways. There's more time. All right. I'll jump into the PRs. If someone has a topic they want to go over, then please add it. Um, guess the one thing I'd like to do is the. Maybe go over. The list of tools and challenges that we're looking at for the. This program that. New program that we're looking at. There's two wiki pages. Does anyone have anything else I'd like to add? You can either write it in or verbalize it. I'll pull up the PR review and then we'll get to some of those topics. So right now, we only have two things. They're both related to this. White paper. And. This newest one. And I don't remember if Nikolai, if this had anything that you had on it. It seems like there's a few different items, but this was trying to address some final pieces in the, the white paper. And. Actually, I need to check some. I tried to mark it. I don't remember if Nikolai, if this had anything that you had on it. I need to check something. I tried to merge. December 2nd. Why is that so old? Oh, that was the problem. Okay. This is a simple change. Linus foundation to Linux foundation. Which I think is what we have in the. In the newest version of this request. Yep. It's there. All right. So the ask on this. Is there anyone not familiar with this white paper? Give a quick overview before I do this one Ted, but. I am not completely familiar with the time. Right. Some pieces. But is it still in a branch, right? Yes. It's still on a branch. All right. So. The, the. Just of it is, it's a follow-up to. Clodinated manifesto. Which was published a couple of months ago now. And this is a follow-up trying to get more specific on the ask. From CSPs. And some of the. Other than maybe particulars on. Removing and be ambiguity or spelling or. Just trying to do some things like that. Some of the more explicit things that were added were. A mutual. Effort between CSPs and vendors to. Take on the responsibility of the change. One of the things pointed out by several people was. What happens if. People creating. CNS platforms, that sort of thing. Or, or I'll say integration pieces for platforms. They're trying to. Make the change to have native components, but. CSPs don't. Change their model for deployment. Their operations management or. Their internal environments to actually match those things. And then. They're held then the creators of CNS are held accountable for. Things not working. Then that would be a problem. So that was one of the major changes. It was already. Understood by the CSPs that were involved, but it wasn't explicit. So. The wording for that's been put through several places, including the introduction. And. Some other stuff around like. Business models and other things to communicate that. This is. The intent is to be mutually beneficial. While. Moving towards this. Different model of. Running the networks. And then the latest change, which I was showing. This one was about. Adding. Pretty straightforward. This white paper and what it's asking is. Is talking about Kubernetes. So not saying that there's other environments that may be used, but. This paper isn't trying to cover all things. It's. That the focus here is a Kubernetes based environments. Is it, is it sort of defined like which flavor of. We're talking about. Like every, every. This throw is different. They are using different run times. Different. Different storage. So the. You'll have to go through the, the individual pieces on the requirements that break out architecture and other pieces, but the. The, the main focus is on being. The vendor, neutral interoperability between. Platforms and trying to support multi cloud, which means. One of the things I think. You've seen in the past. If there's a requirement for. Specific SLAs. That are end up being tied into performance aspects of. A specific flavor or distribution. And then you're trying to also do multi cloud and that can be problematic and that's partly where the. Mutual effort to support. Each other. CSP is trying to meet. Partway to adjust those SLAs or anything else. So the very first thing would be vendor neutral. On the distribution. So first starting there. And. There's my problem here. There is no vendor neutral. Yeah. It was, you know, you might have seen itself cannot even start the continent. You have to have a continent and you have to have a senior plugin. And all of these are making the, like the end result. Vendor specific. It's not, it's a dream to have vendor. So you can have a goal. And you try to meet it as close as you can. And then you have the exceptions. So yes, you can, you can say it's a dream, but that doesn't mean that you can't aim for it. Yes, that's true. All right, I'm going to, I, so I just merged that one pull request from Philippe from orange. That was related to the request from ill deco and a few other folks. So we have. At this point, like, there's enough approvals from everyone that we're going to move forward on this, but I'm trying to check to see if there's what's left as far as resolved or unresolved. All right, I'm going to close this one out. This is about terms cloud infrastructure and other things, but this paper is about. The idea of the operation, the, the practices use this, the technology, how it's how you build your environment with the technology. And ideally how the technology responds in that environment that it's following cloud native principles. What we're really saying is it's designed to run in these environments and it behaves with the expectations or environment that when we say native, that's what that's about. So this just terminology and teaching it to be more generic go ahead. Do you think that we need to clarify that in the document or like what we have is enough to what you're already explained it. I feel like it's been said over and over it's kind of frustrating to have to say when you say native, you don't actually mean native to that environment. You can do something else. Cloud native doesn't mean cloud computing. You can do cloud computing but not try to design something to be native to the cloud. But you can still have technology that you would just say it's called computing. As far as like adding it to this. I mean, we could, it could be put somewhere. Probably it should be like a, there's a whole section that's a reference and append and the appendix. I'm trying to get down there. Looks like there's some other annex. So this annex would probably be if we want it like inserted rather than a reference to something external. Then I would put it in the annex. Like this 12 factors for CNS and tell us that. Put a lot of this part in here. And then other people added to this, but so this section goes into more details on related to 12 factor apps. But trying to relate it to CNS. And this didn't feel central to what the white paper was trying to communicate. So that's why it's an annex. So I think if we're going to put in like what do we mean when we say cloud native it should be an annex. The cloud native infrastructure I guess that was the term which was referring to the code. Yeah. Um, yeah. That's not the same. Is it here. Or was that here. Yeah. So here we go this part. So this is, you know, kind of what you're gay was saying as far as there's different distributions or opinionated infrastructure from different vendors. And then. What does that mean so now there's a problem with adoption. CSPs are. Wanting a unified cloud native structure. So what they're saying is they're wanting that dream that Greg is saying is. Not, not here or harder to reach. If I make it lighter. And you know the point of silver and stuff is to try to get closer. Yeah, because from my perspective, cloud native means the workload that you run on the cloud computing infrastructure. So, so maybe. Yeah, just like the additional native there. Probably. Yeah. I agree with the lego is not. Yeah. On top of this thing. Yeah, I agree with this differentiation that cloud native is more about the workload and if you are talking about cloud. infrastructure, then we might have such a thing, but that is implementing a cloud infrastructure using the cloud native principles. That's literally what. That's what, yes, exactly. I think on Vook are talking about implementing the infrastructure or really what they want is the entire environment to be designed. So the entire stack, which I think we keep getting away from. And trying to think there is a platform and there are applications, but then every time we get into that we start getting down. Is this application that has an operator and oh, it actually has a, you know, some type of management piece that talks directly with CNI. Is that still a CNF because it's running in the same space that cuba training. Now, oh, it's an extension. So we're talking the full stack. If we don't try to split them. And the ask here is let's build the whole environment. So if we take Deutsche telecom as an example. They're doing deployments of their Kubernetes on onto their, you know, bare metal area with get ops practices. And then they're having applications. Use similar practices, which could be like you could use something like Nephia. And now you have the workload. So the deployment of the workload and then the actual workload that's running following. Native to the cloud computing. So they're wanting the whole thing. So it sounds like in from what y'all are saying. And then maybe what Ildeco is saying is this is not communicating that Philippe was trying to say that here. And I think. Yeah, Jeffrey salons understood. Understood what he's saying, but if y'all are not understanding it, then maybe the wording needs to be changed to communicate that we're saying we want the entire environment to be designed to be native for cloud computing or native to the whole concept of cloud computing. So when you say cloud native, that's what we mean. Everything is designed. When, when they're saying it, they're applying it to everything. Yeah. Yeah, for me. Oh, here's what we're missing on the next line. See this, I have a unified cloud native infrastructure layer, which are few to choose. Okay. So this is they get into more and more layers and stuff, but I guess maybe this gives back to the comment earlier that maybe we need the definitions and terms. What are we saying there. No, no, no, I mean, for me, it's like, I mean, based on the history, the first thing that was came was the cloud computing infrastructure, right? I mean, we decide the cloud and eventually we start like modifying the applications to adopt and and use all the cloud native or the cloud computing benefits. So that's why we deliver the new term like cloud native because those new applications were designed for that new thing like the cloud computing. So, like, like using that term is like, like, going back to the origins, like the same cloud native infrastructure means like essentially the same like things cloud computing. I mean, from my perspective, because it is, it was the first thing which triggers the revolution with changing the application. So, so that's, that's quite for me, I guess, a little more agree with it because when you're saying cloud infrastructure, like, it doesn't change anything like that because we have the traditional infrastructure, which is, you know, it is not self service, it is not we could use is not API driven all these benefits of the cloud has. So, so the infrastructure when when the infrastructure evolved from the traditional infrastructure to adopting the cloud technologies. Yeah, we have to redesign the application that we have to start adopting them. And that's why we create like the cloud native principle for like the guidelines, but we try to reflect, okay, well, you have to modify your application to use all these things. I mean, the terms, I mean, if I read it, that's like, I can understand if you're referring to the same thing but for me it's like kind of redundant probably. I mean, it doesn't hurt to keep it as it is as the original is like by using cloud native infrastructure. But, but usually I prefer to refer cloud computing, the infrastructure on cloud native to the workload that's my, probably my, my own personal way to distinguish things. I mean, this unified part of this definition, because I think there is a contradiction here so usually CNF vendors are validating their CNF against the infrastructures where we have to run so we are not really dating against random stuff. We are really dating against infrastructures what our customers to have. In a sense, it's not really true that they're unified cloud native you such layers different from where we are validating by for CNF. So I don't see that I think this sentence is not getting the problem right. It looks like from this sentence it looks like that CNF vendors are validating against random stuff, which is not true. That's, that's true. We are validating to a number of open-ended infrastructure flavors because our customers are using open-ended infrastructure flavors. Yeah, we are validating against what our customers require from us. So Gurgi, that's the, I don't, I'm not going to modify this based on reading a single small context. What you just talked about is related to another portion that was added in the last two weeks addressing asking a vendor to make a change when the CSPs if they don't change then you're going to fail as a vendor like you're not going to be able to match what they actually have in reality. So that other change was that CSPs are committed to meet on like for this one would be if, if we're saying in a unified cloud native infrastructure well that's not up to you if you're building a CNF and they're not, they're running an opinionated infrastructure. And they're saying we run on, you know, three different three different hosted environments or two plus our own internal and they're all opinionated. But we, we want you to run on some unified upstream vanilla version. And then you will work. That's the, I think that's the misunderstanding. It's not possible to have a vanilla version. There is no such a thing. They're only opinionated version. They're only opinionated versions. That every operator is different. That is true. But if there is no such a thing as a vanilla Kubernetes distro. Maybe this paragraph refers to like the usage of a cloud formation, key templates and all these technologies. And maybe that's a great like, I mean, if you have like, if you're using those technologies. Like key templates and all these things is not, it's just you're using the cloud technologies, but it's not unified. Like, and we need like something that's why we, that's a major success of Kubernetes, right, because we use it as a standard, like a way to define it. Like, like a unified standard to define things. But it's a case, I guess, that's, that's right. Like we need to want to unify cloud template technology could be. But there is no such a thing, I think. Yeah. All right. Yeah, but that's, I think that's the trick here is that all of this is driven by the operators. So we are not doing this because we, you know, we have too much time to do this or too much money to spend on this. It's driven by operator requests. So if they would require something else from us, then we would do something else. Yeah. The key is that they all build their opinionated stacks. That's why we are rotating against a number of opinionated stacks because this is what our customers are using. I think one, I think one of the presumptions where you're starting is from where things have been versus where they want to go. So the ask is not, hey, please go back and fix all your stuff. The way we're saying now on current, like as of today, or even six months ago, the way you're talking about it is what was in the past. The outcome just launched their production network. A large portion of their production network, not all of it, but a very large portion of their production network on this, the chef. Get ops. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. It's an opinionated Q and this is true. That's brand new. That's the girl gave the point is it's it's brand new. So you wouldn't be expected to say why haven't you done this yet. The ask in this whole white paper is, let's keep moving forward to that. So it's not going to be it's defined. And now, instantly, their running production is all implementing something that's the vendor neutral everything. What's going to happen is whenever multiple CSPs are all saying, hey, we also are going to follow these steps so that you have more of a unified environment to point out. And then you come in as a vendor and go, actually, this is different from this one in this. And now they have to figure that out. But at least the commitment that I'm hearing from them is they want to try to converge more and more toward, you would say, oh, it's closer. These five are very close. There's three other CSPs that are out there that they're not there yet. And their flavors are very different. You can say that they're all different, but it doesn't that's that's a big difference from saying how much are they different. They can get them to where they're 95% the same at some level. And that covers a large number of CNF store you could say 99% of the CNS will run on any of them, but we have to do these adjustments per operator. That's a big difference between saying, you know, 10% of the CNF has to be configured very differently with different requirements or higher. They're trying to reduce the changes required. Yeah, I think that's a very good, very good direction and I fully support that. Now, how do we find this common denominator? That's a big question. Well, this is the start. So the other one was they just the NGMN was very high level. This is the next level. You should look through this if you haven't yet for the challenges specifically forget about we got stuck in the terminology on the very first part introduction and pre-validation. But the other parts of the challenges are them trying to say here's what we're we're dealing with operationally right now. And then the ask here is what they have been saying so Sylva is based on the experimental cloud computing so Sylva project, but it's based on an experimental cloud platform that Orange has been working on for years. They have production recently starting to run on similar aspects of Sylva, but Sylva's not as far as I know, you may know Gurgay but as far as I know there's nobody out there actually running something that's there's no actual certification or compliance program yet for Sylva. It's in the works, but I don't think anyone's actually running anything based on the alpha or the in progress work there. But I know they have validation program and they ask CNAF vendors to validate against. Yeah, but is the one actually running a production other than I can say Orange is running in production pieces of what Sylva is, but I don't think they're running like a fully compliant here is Sylva. I think they do at least orange is doing that is that's my my impression from what's happening. I'm not sure it's in production, but like somebody already mentioned, they have multiple environments already set up I think telephonic has one orange has one I think orange is building a second. I think Tim is building one, but there are two to platform environments stood up one from telephonic and one from orange that is being used for CNF validation. Now, whether whether they've taken those and move them into production, I don't I don't have the answer to that but they do have Sylva environment stood up for doing that CNF validation. Right. So that would be closer to production on that so that this just goes back to the the same thing that there's a move towards it. And the request here isn't that everyone is compliant to everything that's outlined here as of today. It's let's start trying to move towards implementing this stuff and talk about anything that's a problem so this would be if there's something that's in conflict with what's being asked here and what's in silver then that needs to be pointed out. Vook and other folks from Deutsche telecom were part of this, and they're trying to make sure that the platform when they're talking get ops patterns and stuff from what I've seen those would be compatible with someone that's using something like and you're using KPT packaging and the configuration that you do in get is going to be very similar to someone using flux or Argo CD oranges using I think Argo workflow with something else, but they're so they're using different software for how you're going to implement those different practices and patterns. And if you're developing your deployments and your operational management to use those sorts of practices. It doesn't mean you're going to be done. It's not going to be some specific thing for a tool, but you're going to be a lot closer to working with all of them, then if you don't support anything for like deployment from from get. If you, if your package can't be configured if your CNF can't be configured and deployed from get, then you're not going to work for an FIO, or, you know, flux or any of these things. So that the first goal in this is to get to that base level. And that gets you that reduces the efforts to then move between the opinionated versions Gurga that you keep talking about. And then the idea is if if we can get everyone closer to that that vendor neutral.  Here's three different flavors that we see often and from different operators are all using these, but they're doing something in a different way then we can start looking and going well then how do we make it easier. Maybe influencing all of the, the, the specific distributions, but also looking at, you know, stuff like the different layers that can help with going across those that was also outlined above. So, just like if they are the different, how, what's the typical procedure to get a consensus agreement on making a more uniform API standard, but a uniform API between the distributions. I think it's not necessary API is what we are talking about here but more like runtime capabilities or something. I think that's the key, because the API is our kind of easy. Kind of what kind of easy. Yeah, well, ideally that so APIs are just a way to interact with the system and utilize the capabilities in the system. So, that I think the APIs are an important part of this. It may not be that the API and API specifically is the way that you're interacting. On the other hand, it's how are you defining APIs. And so when we're talking about declarative configuration and a declarative system, sorry a declarative system from the cloud native perspective, you're talking about declarative configuration, you're talking about declarative APIs. There's a lot of pieces where you can have that. I think the capabilities and attributes in the system. You can, you can say how are you going to make them available to different components, whether you're extending the quote unquote platform, or you're having a CNF that's closer to the platform that needs to utilize an extension than it may be almost an extension. And then you have, you know, other parts where it's maybe a higher level workload, but there's, there's places you're going to interact. So, when you say API you could be a little bit generic, but whatever the case I think you could say they should be declarative. Whenever the system that you're on is saying it has capabilities, it needs to be able to, to announce, here's what I have, and then the application should be able to say to the system. Here's what I want. What do you have here's here's the needs you could say but it's really starting with here's what I want. And then the system ideally is going to respond. Yeah, I did use that as a more generic term so just just imagine that the just different organization already have their own opinionated implementation. So, but going forward, what's the process to make them like take one component one stack and stick it into another stack and it's still going to work. The one I've been using is like on app orchestration or any of the, the whole full stack, like, how do we, how do they work together. And if there is a, like, if it don't kind of work together, what's the procedure to, to have an agreement I guess that's the question. So, probably the first thing to note and acknowledges how native, are you going with your entire environment and entire stack. And there may be parts that work within a system, but you, they're not cloud native. And that's okay. It's just what you've decided on so if there's a greater benefit to not having something native to the Kubernetes environment, I'm just going to be specific to Kubernetes. If it's better higher value for you to not be native, then by all means, don't be native that's where we're not saying be cloud native no matter what this is for real world. So that's the very first thing to note. And then, after that you can decide with whatever component you're bringing in. And sorry, go ahead. That actually bring the next question I have. So you just mentioned that not everything is cloud native because a lot of the, the current stack is written based on open stack, for example, right. So, but now cloud native by cloud native typically means it could remain as container not necessarily but so like their new ticket. Like, for example, WebAssembly is becoming quite big on the edge. I know it's not directly related to the, to the infer, but it could be. So, with those new technology being introduced which may replace container technology, I don't know, I don't know if it will, but let's say if it does, what they probably need a way to define the, you know, how those older types of technology is going to talk to each other right so is that an API interoperability question. I mean, I definitely think that APIs can be part of a solution for integration of that. And you brought up open sex so when we say cloud native my own personal view is you can take a lot of different technology and it could be designed so that got into the infrastructure question that we're having earlier like what do we mean when we say cloud native and okay you have cloud native workloads but it's cloud competing infrastructure. And so I the intent here was all layers of cloud native so I'm going to go with that so I've designed Zen Zen based systems that I would consider closer to cloud native or just using stuff like hardware dynamic and and configurable Zen systems that weren't your traditional virtualization type of infrastructure. Okay, so that's just the first part, I think you can design the platforms of technology, but there can be technology that was specifically designed to run in that fashion so Kubernetes was created based on those practices and principles which means when you're building a Kubernetes based system, it happens to it's going to automatically have some of the attributes that you would want in a cloud native system. But if if we look at how do you integrate real world, then you may say there's a there's a network that you want to integrate with that's running on a platform that's not cloud native, but you need to interact with it. Well, then I would think you're going to try to have a layer on the cloud native side to allow some type of integration that makes it maybe is neutral as possible so there's some layer between the system that's designed to be cloud native and declarative with this API is and all that sort of thing and then maybe another system that's not designed for that. It's whatever it's designed for it's very much not designed to be dynamic. If you look at rest as an API a way for developing APIs, and the actual rest not what lots of people have developed. It allows you to interrogate the API defined further API so that you can literally dynamically with your program that's interacting, it can see the next API that you need to call. And it's directed so your application can literally find new function calls remote function calls via that. So, but you have to design your application that way and you have to design your API that way. So if your Kubernetes environment has a API for, you know, maybe integrating expanding the network, but your other platform isn't designed that way. So you're going to have to have some layer. And there's a lot of ways to go about this so I'm really just saying my opinion on this, you would put some layer between them so that you can continue to have your cloud native environment and ideally expand it. By helping the other one. And if you're using something I don't want to just call out own app but if you're whatever it is if you have some type of external orchestration management system, whatever that is, if it's not designed to try to work the way that these workloads and I would say cloud native computing workloads would do a lot of the distributed management and decision making based on the environmental changes that are distributed throughout the system. But you want to use it will again you're going to pick you're going to have to create some type of layer. So how is that going to work. So you may have applications that are already running on Kubernetes that are designed to utilize the Kubernetes orchestrator and dynamically be updated. There's a lot of new operators using like a ML to read the metadata and make changes. Well that's not going to be what's designed with an external orchestrator. But if you want to use it you're going to have to have some layer and then decide on maybe conflicts or whatever, but I'm getting into implementation on that I think it can happen and my opinion would be, you try to put a layer between it so that you can keep as much of your workload in the environment, following cloud native principles, and have a layer between for translation is a who's on on that's on the Nephio side was, I think we got Victor, you're here. Yeah. So this made me think of that the Nephio summit was anyone there at the Nephio conference a couple of months ago. Yeah. You remember that one of the talks was about external. How do you interact with like external systems. One of them would be. All right. Yeah, but not just over and but like that what is that I'm dropped it in my head right now but the is the protocol for communicating changes and stuff. That's one of the main topics that kept coming up. The configuration management changes that gets pushed out on a network. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, one of the parts it's not all of it but there's one part of that that's very much not cloud native and it can't be made cloud native the way it's designed so there was people working already on trying to provide like a layer between so that you could push both directions. So you'd be able to update on the net comp side the systems that are using it that have pieces that just are not designed to be in this type of system. So then what you have to have is a layer that essentially translates. And you're going to have to update both sides and you have to reconcile any issues. So I think that's what you end up needing to do is having some type of reconciliation between the systems. If you want them to both work in the way they're designed to.  And then you have another system that's fully, you know, nephio dynamic cloud native, whatever. Then you're going to have to have some layer in between that knows how to reconcile the differences. Hey, thanks for joining. I don't I don't know if you caught up but it was the one of the first questions here was this thing that Philippe had responded to I know that you gave a update. This is on the pre validation section. And it was the use of cloud native infrastructure. And one of the ask was can we communicate like what do we actually mean here, but it's the concept of is cloud native referring to work pledge running in a cloud competing environment, and I was trying to communicate what my understanding that the desires have it on all layers. Um, I don't know if that was Nikolai earlier, or who it was that responded I know Gregor you had a few comments but I think someone else started that. If if you're there, I'd like for you to communicate like from your perspective as a CSP. Ildeco was saying that this term was confusing. And we definitely didn't want container orchestration because we're not saying just you're running in a container. We're saying it's following these principles. But I don't know if there's another way of having this language to be more clear. The stackers has that distinction. I mean, from the stackers one of you. Kubernetes is mostly defined as a container orchestration system. You know, yeah, you can use. You bird and you can manage. And also with a special container. You can also use. You can also manage. What application. But just in general, like they try to. So if I do do this as a orchestration system. And open a stack, mostly as a cloud computing platform. That's usually the way to define things. So, I guess, illegal what she wants to make that third distinction. Yeah, and again, like, I'll say before, like. Maybe for me, it's more. The workload. Computing is more related to the infrastructure. I mean, speaking, hello, I joined later. They are different. There are two camps, actually, and this thing came up frequently that you can even find the book from. Unfortunately, this is Chris Nova. And other authors called cloud native infrastructure. And this book is actually explaining that this is an infrastructure that enables cloud native applications to run with all these principles and so on. So we also internally refer to the Kubernetes based infrastructure and ecosystem around it. As a cloud native infrastructure or infrastructure for cloud Navy native. So, from this perspective it is for me implicit. Because it combines the orchestration and the dynamic nature of infrastructure capabilities for application to be cloud native. And the cloud infrastructure is to general it could be many things. Okay, I guess, what maybe we can do in order to move forward this point. We can affect you things here and also try to reach illegal and trying to find like a middle point like. Yeah, thanks for for putting maybe using that reference of the book. You can also try to clarify or like try to give an explanation. I think maybe just explicitly saying what you said, Luke would be good. So we expand what this term is, and what it means to you to actually have that expanded definition. And I was thinking specifically cloud native we don't need to define that's frustrating to have to keep saying the same thing. But apparently the cloud native infrastructure and how that's met isn't as clear so if we can define that either and the, you know the introduction or preamble or whatever. By the time it's said here, or you just expand that sentence, just to communicate what it actually is, then that would probably address this issue. Yeah, I think we could even borrow from the definition that is already there or refer to the definition. Like we understand cloud native infrastructure as and then. Yeah, let's share the link, by the way, as a reference in the chat here. Is that to the document or the book. No, the book which is one source of reference there there also number of articles and many things but this is, I have to confess this is not unison in the broader community and I got frequently. Also such a feedback when we use the term or application could be cloud native and not the infrastructure, which is indeed at the end through. But here we refer to the infrastructure that enables it gives you all the properties so that you can run the cloud native application without external orchestrator with the reconciliation with all these, these kind of things. But I can try to to make an formulation to remove ambiguity out of the document. It seems like it we're saying a full stack an entire stack, the infrastructure and workload, everything, including the how you deploy. Since we're advocating get ops and stuff it's the entire stack. So if that can be communicated. I think when we put a short word, it's not going to work because people aren't going to understand what that means I get it and I thought this was what she meant but apparently it's not universally understood that way. Let's talk after and try to add something in here. I also think it'd be okay to, if there's like a quote out of the book, we can just drop a line put it in quotes. And, and then ref, add it to the reference at the bottom. It's okay to have like a single quote as long as we reference it. Yep. Yeah, I agree. All right. Well, I'm going to resolve this one's Kubernetes. I'm going to try to work through the last of these that got, I think addressed either with the last update, or there, there's some spelling and stuff like that. But we'll be merging this pretty soon go ahead. No, no, I just saying like, I mean, after the double power. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Have a good day.


So the biggest thing I think we need to do is to not have a wireless communications framework but a communications framework. As we heard, time and again in the first panel, all of the pieces of our modern communications network are interrelated with each other. We can't view this as just a silos anymore. At the same time, there are some things we can do while we're expanding out the framework. The framework should be mandatory for wireless carriers at this point. We have a number of years of experience with it. I think that it should be voluntary for other members of the communications ecosystem as an initial matter, but mandatory for wireless carriers. And as others have mentioned, the triggering events for this should not be, but a network goes down and then only as a last resort is mutual aid extended. But we should formalize what is now going on informally and have coordination in advance, advance trainings, and a triggering event such as a declaration of an emergency that automatically brings mutual aid and mutual coordination into play.


Command grabs I should have known do we get combo here we do right yeah we do That's a lot of damage too. Oh, and it's not even oh, it's we're not even halfway done yet Oh in the classic Broly reset. Oh, I got Broly the chosen one all see it sis This could be a bad. How's it going everybody? Dodged it only here back with some more Dragon Ball fighters right matches this time playing a full team of Vegeta and yes This does actually have to do with the most recent manga chapter for Dragon Ball Super I actually I actually enjoyed it. I saw some people did it, but that's uh, you know neither here nor there I just thought Vegeta was and I'm getting triple C assist I also wanted to bring that up. Oh my god. This is the most dangerous match. I've ever been in you do not want to Be against a triple C assist Especially in this environment. You just you really do not want to see it happen. All right. I shouldn't have done that All right nice at least I got a sliding out of it stop. Oh He caught okay, he knew I was gonna do some funny business. All right. He knew I went to clown college seven years running his I Like that a see it says what in the wrong direction? I don't know why I Okay, this guy is catching me mashing at every opportunity, which means I have to not mash That's that's a secret. That's really all it takes is not mash and just leave space for him to click buttons like right here. Oh My god like right here. There we go. Okay. That's the death of cooler All right, we're just gonna use a bar get this over nice and quick big bang attack Maybe I should be saving Super Saiyan Vegeta for the last character, but I don't really know I mean I already use sparking. All right. Let's just do what we got to do energy cutter.  You got a block that. Oh my god. Nope Watch this He wants it. He wants to click that button Sometimes you just got to know what they want to do and use it against them. I'm a level three. Why don't ask me? It's gonna work It's okay. It didn't work, but I have a second plan level one That one didn't work either. Okay. I am out of options. I have you Okay, okay. I deserve that one. I definitely deserved that Vegeta to go down, but we still got base Vegeta and blue Vegeta Honestly, I feel like I should use blue Vegeta. All right, let's get him back in the corner a bit of sliding on it Okay, Super Dash.  That was the best bluff I've ever do it. He's moving right now. Why? Why is he going for my legs? All right, I'm just gonna get out of there. Is he trying to to me is that is that what's happening that? Okay, that's what's happening. He wanted to to me. There's no way Okay, I finally understand. I understand what he was going for. He wanted the big show-off play and I get it I'm gonna guard cancel that. I don't know what to do. I'm surprised. I didn't get oh Too aged for that. He has a combo for this. He just he wants the 2m damn it He is trying to limit break dojita me to death Wow, it's only gonna take a level one for this. I think he missed I Knew I would try to capitalize on Super Dash. Okay. Okay. He's just going crazy with 2ms The sad part is if he 2ms me again, it's game. Oh Okay, at least that was a 2l. Maybe I might live on a good day if the winds are in my favor Am I okay? I'm in range. Okay. We do live the wind was in my favor now We just have to guess between high low mix-up or grab. Oh, you thought I was gonna lose this game Oh guess again because I never lose maybe one time I lost but never again after that. Let's go All right, that was I told I told you that game was gonna get dangerous. Oh my god He was too anything. I didn't know what to do. My ankles were always in danger maybe I could have just blocked and punished but I Don't know again because the thought of like what if he doesn't do it again? You know, that's what happens when people get grabbed like six times in a row when you see those clips It's because they try to I'm just gonna switch into a DP character That's important to have a DP for matches like these. Ah But not like that not you wouldn't use like that. All right, let's see the combo see assist. That's one. Oh, he missed.  I am just not looking out for my legs My legs are just not even on my mind right now. What was that? Was that real? I'm gonna I'm gonna lose if I'm not careful Give them space to make a mistake There we go I hate it here. Oh wait Second chance. All right, and then just a level one. Let's just cap it off with that That's a blue combo. Oh, no All right, I've made a critical mistake my lack of a geno knowledge has been detrimental to me Is he gonna spark here he is he just wants the combo damage and to be fair that scales very well but I'm out of here dude and You know, I'm just gonna get cooler back in Yeah, I thought he would maybe level three me but I'll just take this level one blow away turn him to space test We are moving right now All right. Well, I actually don't think his baby got to play that much. Oh There we go, he's clicking buttons again. Come on now. You can't click buttons like that I'll take that. I'll take that every day of the week Now hey, he's clicking buttons, dude. He's clicking buns And now we have to deal with anchor go cheat again. Ah, you know, sometimes I never really think about the repercussions of my actions But it should be fine. You want to click any buttons? Go ahead click some buttons Sometimes you just got to use use that against them Level three. I knew I would get it off I knew I'd get a raw level three off eventually and it had to be the base Vegeta version You know what I'll take that's a great set That was a good one to go into first because now my senses are heightened now I know what to look out for. All right great game to that opponent. We're moving on to the next one. Oh Those I'm sorry. I didn't know I didn't know the repercussions. I didn't know what was on the line Oh No, okay, so we are back with a kept. Oh, no fully matching team colors Oh, no, we're done for dude. I already was getting bad vibes from the player card But this guy literally matched his entire team colors around Broly. Oh, no. Oh No matching team colors. I literally I lost on the loading screen. I just didn't know it yet Oh The dragon rush worked the desperation dragon rush imagine if I have base Vegeta combos. I don't need him. I Told you I don't need him. What do I need base Vegeta combos for when I got this? Hold on. Let me go for a bit of mix What's happening Oh, let me pick you up just to throw you back down again. It was nothing personal I just like that throw move. Are they I really wish that throw move was more important in Vegeta's kit It's just so disrespectful. Ah I'm bad at the game. I was really tried hard not to get hit there, but it was uh, you know, I could tell it was coming And Broly come I do I thought he used like all of these resources yesterday I could have sworn that combo you super dash a while ago. All right, we're getting here with the level 3 To be honest, I'm not updated on the Broly mix. I'm just gonna try to raw tag out of here If he gives me a chance Come man grabs. I shouldn't know. Do we get combo here? We do right? Yeah, we do that is that is pretty good That's a lot of damage too. Oh, and it's not even oh, it's we're not even halfway done yet Oh in the classic Broly reset. Oh, I got Broly. I got Broly pretty hard. I should have mashed vanish Okay, we're back in the game after a bit of an embarrassing Forte I Try to hit heavy. I shouldn't have done it and he gets a combo off that Broly just be getting straight combos. Okay, we really need to pull ourselves together We had a great start and then I'm not so good at everything else I'm too H for that. Yeah, that was a risky to that was a risky DP should have known should have woke up dragon rush I'm actually gonna No, you know what? I'm gonna leave it to blue Vegeta. I'm not gonna spark. I'm not gonna spark I don't think I had a chance honestly. I think I'm dead Wait, am I dead? Okay. Yeah that conversation but nothing. I thought I was living Okay, leave it all the blue Vegeta Broly really came out here and said yeah, I'm just gonna talk my stuff and just He knew I was gonna wait. I should have mashed Headbutt I like the headbutt variation of the cow. Ah He's jumping and running and jumping. I can't okay down tech down tech down tech mash Just down tech down tech sparky. Thank God. I thought I was over There we go, we're on him Okay, that that seems to have worked out can Broly died you Broly died Broly died Okay, you died in the level three. Well, I thought I was gonna have to use more All right, we still have a chance of winning this game. It's not a great chance obviously. Oh I shouldn't have clicked it. I think we all know I shouldn't have clicked it Level three kills me here. Oh my god the level three auto tracks. I thought it was gonna I was like, wow, they did that early. Oh So many obvious mistakes were made after that first run Broly really ate me alive, dude That was a great game. Oh, it was the color coordination on the other day Dude that we knew was gonna happen because the entire team is color-coded around Broly So we knew we should have known Broly was gonna be the option. All right. I'm just gonna stand back and assist.  I so far we start off. Well All right, we'll take an early spark. Oh Potara kick that was the full auto Full auto in neutral. Oh my god. That scared me. We just we honestly spark here Don't twitch me.  Oh the new system Into the Broly combos not good not great level three to get the armor off. I agree. I agree. I would have done the same Now does he think I dp here? Do I wake up dragon rush?  That was genius. That was really genius. Oh Broly, okay, we got a thing. We got out smart Broly. We got out play Broly. I'm mashing vanish Yep, that's fine. I'm okay with that. Oh That's that got nerfed Stomp combos. We are getting Broly hard.  Oh, it's okay. We're gonna win this Don't ask me how I haven't figured that part out yet. This is pure confidence speaking No way that caught me the EX kick was stopped by Broly Just raw scream energy. All right now. What do I do? Please tell me that's not safe. Oh, it's safe. Just damn it. Oh Damn it. The reason I did level three by the way is because I thought he was gonna go for a The reset the the uptake grab thing But I didn't I didn't think he would do I just I was it I was just doing it because I thought it would happen not looking at the screen. Basically. We got Broly hard That was a great set. I got washed But what a way for it to God just getting Broly'd Damn if we were smarter. Oh, I'm thinking of the 2h. Well, that was a great set though If you enjoyed it Never let me know down below in the comments and make sure to the like and subscribe button if you want to Keep up to date on all the videos we put out here If you want to watch more right away including somewhere I don't get Broly'd you can check out those videos on your screen other than that I have been dr. Doya, and I will see you in the next one


Hey traders, this is T Bradley 90 from the My Investing Club chat I'm one of the top mentors and moderators in chat and we have a very special video for you guys today Joe Kelly who does his trading basic series every single Sunday releases a new video today We have a very special video of episode 36 where he talks about a POP ticker symbol as a live trade which is the first resistance and deathline and while today is just a preview of the Full-length video if you want to watch the full length or any of our exclusive content then become a member of MIC What's going on everybody? It is Saturday August gosh, I've lost track of time 17 2019. I'm in Philadelphia right now at the MIC one-year Anniversary meetup. I'm doing this video on a recap on a trade on APOP that I promised everyone There are two trades well three trades in this setup that I want to go over here So the first is a first resistance short on APOP now I'm going to show you this trade and this trade ends up not working out But I want to show you why it didn't work out so you can see on my bottom right on my charts I've got down here the 70 and the 80 lines so you see the 70 line is pretty key You can see all this resistance over here, but over here. It just blows right it just blew right through it I actually missed this and the reason why I didn't take the 70 line is because it just came from the 60 line So this is when we talk about using outer lines. Okay So you can see I get filled right here the stop that I did not do correctly. I thought I would use a stop barely above the line which is a Breaking rule. It's breaking one of my rules So you can see I stop out right there nearly dead top and take a small little tiny loss I literally take like a like a five cent loss there But what I was looking for is for it to pull back to around this 70 line support So I was hoping that I could squeeze Five ten cents out of this pullback and out of the first resistance and find my way into a profitable trade here and I use slippage above the line So so my stop shouldn't have been 81. I know it shouldn't have been 81 because I have a rule against that I don't use it a penny above the line never do I always give it some wiggle room, but in this particular case I failed to do that So you can see now that I've identified another line at 90 and another line at 1 So at the 90 line when it started hitting I wanted to see what was going on and you can see that trade happened up here Oh, so I went away with it, but let me look at our on the top right up here. So the 90 line Is right here. I shorted into that covered 80 70 and now it's a death line setup You can see a clear death line right here at this 70 line You see the breakdown below here the breakdown below here. It's a death line. I shorted into that line right there I've got several more orders out here. I'm trying to get filled into strength, but it it It just keeps falling slightly short of my entries And you know, it's frustrating when this happens that you you want to like Enter, but you have to be patient. You have to wait for the orders Don't chase it right here as I get the pullback. There it is. I've got my orders waiting ready to go This is the power of the death line into the close when you get that breakdown into the close This is generally what happens right here. So Hey traders, this is Tosh. I go by T Bradley 90 in the my investing club chat Just wanted to reach out and say if you have any questions about M. I see joining M. I see Maybe you're a member already You have three ways to contact myself personally and through M. I see you can hit our social media You can hit me through pms and chat or you can contact us through my email at Tosh at my investing club calm That's Tosh at my investing club calm I will get back to you in a timely manner and I'm saying this because I'm here to help and I don't want anybody to be Afraid to reach out and ask any question that they have we are here for you guys. All right. See you guys


Mae'r gwsbryd yw'r cyflwyng eich bod yn dweud yn dweud yn ddweud, gyda'r cyflwyng eich bod yn gwrthod ymlaen. Felly, mae'n rhaid i'n ddefnyddio'n cyd-dyn nhw'n ddylch ar fynd. Ond mae'n rhaid i gael eich cyfrifenedd o'i cyfrifenedd yma, ac mae'n ddweud i'r cyfrifenedd yma, ac mae'n ddweud i'ch cwrs ac mae'n ddweud i'ch cyfrifenedd o'r cyfrifeneddol. Mae'r gwrsau Jamie. Mae'r gwrsau ar y dweud i'r gyrwm yma. Of seriously was on this kind of cute micro feature on the best of a website back in 2012. So the idea is if you click this answer my line up link on any artist and this appears in various different places on the site it will add it to your personal line up. You identify yourself with Facebook and then the site generates a kind of personalized festival poster for the year you went and the artists you actually cared about. Dydw i'r cyflym, dwi yw'r gweithio'r dŷlos, dwi'n eich gweithio'r dŷlos ddaterbyn o'r tynnu. Dwi'n credu nawr, oherwydd o'r cyflym gweithio'r dŷlos ddaterbyn, oherwydd o'r cyflym o'r ddaterbyn, oherwydd o'r cyflym o'r ddaterbyn. Dyma'r ysgrifennu, ddiddordeb o'r gwbl, oherwydd o'r cyfnod, oherwydd o'r cyfnod o'r dddangos, oherwydd o'r rŷt. Dyma, yn eich bydd yn gynghraifft, mae'n ei wneud ychydig iawn yn gweithio'r tiylau ar gyfer y tiylau gwahanol a gwahanol yn y tiylau gwahanol. Felly, rydyn ni'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'r lleidwch, a'r lleidwch arall, a'n meddwl i'r lleidwch ar gael yr adeiladau a'r lleidwch i'r meddwl. Mae ydych chi'n cael gallu bod y peth yn ystafell o'r rhywbeth a'r rhywbeth sy'n wedi'u cyfnodd y ffordd o'n teulu o'r ysgrifweith yng Nghyrchu Gwyrtwyr. Ruby or Django or something like that, plus tools provided by your testing libraries, plus something like Selenium to drive a browser through your test suite and simulate real user interaction. In Rubyland, anyway, you use Capybara to interface with Selenium driving as many browsers as you want, aspect syntax. You visit a page, you click some link, you fill in some form, and then at the end you assert that the state of the UI has changed to reflect what you expected it to. I really love this style of testing because it forces you to just speak about interactions in terms of these primitives. You know, you can look at a design or a piece of UX and sort of, it seems like a holistic thing and the user flows through it, but really it always boils down to visiting URLs, clicking on stuff, filling in forms, maybe a bit of drag and drop or adding files in, but really you have at some point to reduce to this quite small interface. So when you do these tests, this is the stack that you end up working with, so your test suite aspect, for example, will boot up an instance of your app, or maybe if it's several apps working conjunction, it'll boot them all up, and then a database in the testing environment, maybe a queue, some kind of mock API if you're dealing with a third party service, and then it will spin up all the browsers you want to test with, and then it will drive through those using Selenium. That works really well. I think it's really impressive that we can do that, we can run it on CI, you can use browser stack, and you can have Travis drive a load of browser stack browsers through testing your application. That's wonderful. So where does Ember fit into all this? So if anyone's used Ember Rails, you might think of it in these terms. Ember is kind of the face of your Rails application, that all of the CSS and the markup and JavaScript is sort of sitting as a thin layer on top of the real guts and business logic. Or you might think of it on the other side of that line. It's its own app sitting in memory in these browsers. And the nice thing is those tests that we wrote with Cappy Bar and Selenium, they still stand. It's still that same interface of clicks and URLs and filling in forms. It all still works great. Until you hit unit tests for your JavaScript, which you will want to do, you'll want to test that your component works with certain groups of inputs, and you'll want to really thoroughly, you know, throw stuff at a helper and see that it does the right thing in different circumstances. You can't really test that in Ruby.  It will load in your JavaScript test suite. It will get the results using tap or a format like that if anyone has ever come across that. And then it will kind of display all these test results together. And that's a way to do it, like that, you know, can be made to work, can be made to work on CI just like everything else. But this is like, like the question I have when I look at this is like what's your program in all of that stuff. Is your application really this kind of like tightly bound up stack that goes through from a complete GUI in the browser down to a Rails application or several services on different servers through down to databases? Are they really also knotted together that you have to test them that way? One of the best things about writing tests and practicing test driven development is you run across boundaries in your programs. You're kind of forced to confront them, forced to mock them and figure out how small and simple you can make the interface between things. So those primitives, the interface between a human being interacting with your application is visiting URLs, clicking on links and filling in forms. There's not that much to it, you know, and you can maybe add events that can be triggered in the DOM, but even then it's an event with a name and some data attached. So this is, I think, the preferable stack. You don't worry about what the server is up to. Instead, you try and reduce that boundary because at the end of the day, this is quite a simple interface as well. It's your app resident in memory in the browser talking to your API with HTTP requests over TCP or over web sockets or something like that. But you're not testing that HTTP works, at least that I don't think you are. You're just testing that when you receive certain data, the right stuff happens. State changes in your application in the right way and you also want to test, I suppose, that you send the right data out at the right time. So probably a lot of you have used Ember testing, but if you haven't, as you can see from this example, it kind of follows the look and feel of Cappie Barrow quite closely and recently that it's been overhauled to this while it looks like a synchronous test actually deals with any asynchronousity that might come out of your application, but it looks quite a lot like that Ruby test we saw earlier. Visit a URL, click on something, fill in some form field, click another button and then this thing that wraps it at the end, basically all these things are going to load promises into a long chain and then it's going to wait for every last promise to get resolved in some way or another and then you have your opportunity to have a look at the page and see what sort of state it's in. I love this because you're down to those primitives again. You're forced to describe what on paper or in said out loud looks like quite a complex interaction. Someone shows you a screen they've designed and it's like, okay, so you pick up this element and then a 3D spin happens and then some glitter falls across the screen. It's really what it is going to boil down to is clicks filling in forms and you can model all of that just by triggering events and just encapsulating what these things really mean as a node fires an event and you handle it somewhere. This is a video of, let's see if I can get it in HD. Oh no, it probably doesn't matter. So this video is, load it and pause it. So on the left is the source code, on the right is will be the test runner, which is test them in this case and in the background the browser, which is what test them will be driving. This is what the test looks like, what I just showed on the slide and then over on the right, test and boots. We load up that this kind of like servant browser that test them is going to drive through these tests and you see this, this first failure, it's tried to click on an A node containing this bit of text. Test them looks for it or ember running the browser looks for it and can't find it and it tells us. So we go, we make an index template for the app and we add a link to in there. We save very quickly, test them, notice the change and tells us that we're trying to link to a route that doesn't exist yet. By the way, if you thought that seemed quick, this video is sped up a bit, but the reason it's so quick is because this application is being built with broccoli. So it's instant. So we'll add a routine for that new ideas route. So now it can't find this, this new idea form field that it wants to fill in. So we'll go and we'll hit up the ideas template out of form with a new idea field in there and then add button. And then we'll just say that on in this new ideas thing will display all the ideas below the form. This is kind of like a standard demo app. So that and it fails the value that each loops over must be an array. So we've ended up with just this kind of generic ideas controller that doesn't know that it needs to be an array controller. So let's go and create the controller. I think that's what I do next. There we go. So that and so we see now here, there's a create action and nothing at the moment is responding to it. We add the action in and we're green. And I just I like for me, that's a lovely way of working working from this high level, this high level thing. Letting the test strive you through what you need to build like only only adding a component to the application when you really need it. And I think especially with Emma, because of the way it's architected, you find that actually you don't need to write too many unit tests because more often than not, you're just kind of composing the pieces that Emma gives you letting bindings do a lot of the work for you letting the templates do a lot of the work for you. And I think really, I found recently the things you want to test the most of just components like things that need to work in isolation and need to be able to be flexible and deal with lots of different kind of configurations. So there's this book, which I am involved with a little bit have some words in some chapters on this and this goes into testing Emma applications in some depth. This is due to be published any second now. If you're interested, I think the publisher said 40% off for ember London members. So I will put some information about that on the meetup group and they said just contact them say you come from Ember London and they'll they'll give you a discount code. The other interesting thing to look at is James Coglan has a JavaScript testing recipes book in the works, which from what I've seen of his tweets so far looks like it will be thorough to say the least. And that's all I got. I would have wanted to cover more stuff, but that's it. Any questions, I guess. So you're saying that the one I understand is that this integration level testing is replacing a lot of the unit testing you normally write at what stage would you use? That's that's yeah, that's normally it via case of writing acceptance test. Get I guess far as you can until you need to create some objects and then create that by creating a unit test. But I've found with ember that because so much of what you build is a matter of kind of binding things together and you can trust the bindings. The bindings are really well tested and rock solid. So you end up with like almost no business logic that needs to be tested. There's control. There's actions in controls and routes and like maybe you test those, but often they do they do very little as well. They just sets property and then the rest of it is taken care of by bindings. I mean, that's to begin with anyway, a thing later on, like I say, when components come into the picture, they're worth unit testing extensively. But then that's kind of easy because that's another case where I think you you trust the templates to do their job. They're really well tested core part of the framework. And then you just test that all your computer properties behave expectly behave as expected on that component. And if there's anything else it needs to do that, you know, handles events correctly and all this kind of stuff. So you're trying to try to do full step integration tests, but do you still do those? Yeah, so right now I am working on a project where I really don't care about the back end much at all. It just needs to be a done data store more or less to a great extent. And so the tests have been written in the style acceptance test driving the driving up the gooey. And then every time it needs to every time it looks like there's a point it would need to talk to an API. I'm just kind of there's a an object in the system, a service object, which has a bunch of methods on it. And then for the moment they are just mocked out a bit like you'd do with ember data's fixture adapter. It's that kind of that kind of interface. And then what's nice is at this point, a gooey's are working when it's talking to this this kind of mock API adapter. And I know what my API needs to look like. I know what it needs to respond to. So now I can just kind of I have this spec as long as I build my API to that spec, then hopefully the two will talk to each other. And yeah, there'll be I think there'll be not so much integration tests, maybe more like smoke tests to make sure that kind of big stabs and interaction work. So in the river world, we're like addicted to like VCR. Yes, they're like, they accurately mock out the same request. And there is like a VCR.js, which at least works on node. But I wanted to try to use this for like in browser capturing HTTP, HTTP responses. Yeah, anyone use that? I have not used VCR.js. But so my general sense is that if you're back end is very complex, you're going to have a problem. Because how you have your front end and your back end interacting in complex ways. And VCR, like recording HTTP requests is one of the ways you can deal with that complexity. But when I've seen recorded HTTP requests in repositories, they were always very, very complex and hard to maintain. So it's a stopgap at best. I'd absolutely agree with that. In fact, I've been there a couple of times with you. It's very useful at first to be able to record something responded by a third party API responded with. But you it doesn't really you capture that data, you walk away for a couple of months, and you look at it again. And it's very difficult to dig back into it and figure out what what's important to your application, like what you actually care about. And I think, like, like I say, all it. I'm not sure I can really conclusively state this, but I think you're not really testing HTTP and TCP. We know that works. We know if you're using, you know, web sockets or something like Firebase, you kind of trust that that part works. And then you kind of work from the boundary from that interface between you and another system, in the same way that we kind of we trust that events flow around in a browser correctly. So we can test from the point of receiving an event, okay, then state needs to change properly and so on. I think the problem for me is the cost of creating an accurate sort of mock of an API versus just recording it when it breaks. I think well, that's so I was I've been working with brain trees API quite a lot lately. And I think, yeah, that and Chris, you when you gave your talk last month, working through that in the sandbox environment, and I really like the idea that you can, you can test things using known data. So with a credit card processing API, you know that there's a particular card number in sandbox mode, which will validate, okay, and like lead to a successful payment. Another one will give a certain type of error. Another one will give another kind of error. So I've been working with building those into a mock API, which you can then actually reuse in development mode if you want to kind of demo things to people like, okay, well, I know that if I put in validatexample.com, it will give me a certain kind of error. And I can demo that. And like I really don't care that, you know, whether that comes back from a server or not. So I think it's, it's a little bit of trust that your the server side component will be implemented to the same spec, and that you'll be able to keep them in parity. But, you know, both ways complexity lies, I think that's preferable to, like you say, they're very deeply knotted up server and front end components. So what I'm doing is I've got a server, I've got so much business to do it, having to trust it to the server. So my server is supposed to be the third party one. Yep. And I'm finding I'm like, found the other day I'm having a problem. So that boundary does call to be a problem. So I'm in the days, for instance, wasn't, I found it wasn't serializing IDs that it already had if it hadn't, because they were racing relationships, because it hadn't resolved the relationships, it wasn't sending the IDs. So my server thought that it was the client was saying that it removed relationships like that. And I kind of tripped on it by accident and kind of explained why a lot of stuff was going wrong actually. But it's really difficult to actually, that's the thing when you've got, when I'm having to push the business logic onto the server, because I can't trust the client to do it. Or I've got multiple people doing different things. I need the server to resolve the logic. Like I find it. I kind of have no idea how I'm going to go out testing that boundary. It's actually the boundary can. So you're saying, I get that you're kind of saying separate it off, deal kind of concentrate on the client and those interrelations for the user stuff, which is a huge part of testing that the client from end works as expected. But actually, you could test that I can test my logic on my server. It's actually going to cause me big problems when the two start talking to each other. Yeah, would you say in that kind of situation is the solution to have your kind of client tests you say and server tests obviously from logic. And then also do some sort of test that does actually. Yeah, so I remember talking to someone who worked at Songkick and they they broke a very large, very slow test suite down when they switched to a service oriented architecture, and they they kind of moved away from the full stack integration tests because they were so slow and difficult to maintain and understand because the tools move forward. And your integration tests can't necessarily move quickly with them. You run into those kind of problems. But I think that perhaps the point is that if you treat these two things as two separate programmes independent of each other that talk over some kind of interface. And you don't want to have to excessively test that interface works correctly. I would hope that that would that kind of forces you to make it simple, like to make it very basic. You know, and that might mean offloading a lot of the logic onto the server, which you know, I think is appropriate for a lot of applications, or more of it onto the client in which is kind of the case in your demo. I suppose actually purchase thinking about it and actually part of the solution is like, because at the moment you do trust ember to do a lot before you see just trust that the bindings are going to sort stuff out for you. So suppose actually ember data against that level of stability as well. Actually your boundary is like if you if you are using ember data, for instance, then your boundary is a lot more than data. So suppose at the moment I don't I use ember data, but I don't trust everything it's doing. In that case, I mean, in that situation, you can test by one side of the boundary. When I say this, this Jason should be sent. You don't have to have to have to actually send it. So you can test those ideas with that. And on the server, you can have a test that says when I get this payload, this happens. You don't ever have to put those two together necessarily to have the confidence it works. Makes sense. But yeah, ideally you'd be able to trust ember data a bit more. Yeah, I've had something like that in my in my one of my last apps where I've had to have some business logic in the server because it just for performance reasons, it wasn't possible to do it on the client side. And what I would do is I would have a selenium test that would for every model, it would test that I can that the client side app reads it correctly and that it writes it correctly. So it would just have a basic smoke test for every aspect of the app. And then for the detail tests, they would run in JavaScript and mock the API. Okay, well, thank you.


We're back at the Javits Center, the Big Apple, New York City. This is the Cube's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. We're here for a full day of coverage. We're talking to customers, partners, executives, and analysts as well. My name is Dave Vellante, and this is the Cube's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. We are truly moving from a world of data centers to centers of data. And centers of data are happening further and further out along the network all the way down to the edges. And if you look at the transformation of infrastructure or software that has enabled us to get there, we've seen apps go from monoliths to microservices. We've seen compute go from physical to serverless. Network can go from old wireline copper to high-powered 5G networks. They've all transformed. What's the one layer that hasn't completely transformed yet, data? The first thing is an operational database. The last thing you want to do is slow it down with very complex analytics. On the other hand, there's huge value to be had if you could turn, let's say, an operational database or a transaction database into a smart transaction database. I think in many ways it's a natural trend that developers are constantly looking for ways to focus on innovation and the business logic that defines their application. Our whole business was founded on the ethos of making developers incredibly productive, right? Just getting the infrastructure out of the way so that the developer can really focus on what's important, that's building great applications that transform their business. And the way you do that is you look at where they spend most of the time working with data. How do you present data, the right data, the right time, the right place, and the right way? And when you remove the friction of working with data, you unleash so much more productivity, which people just say, oh my goodness, I can move so much faster. Priority leaders can get products out the door faster than competitors. Senior level executives can seize new opportunities or respond to new threats. And that was so profound during COVID when everyone had to think about pivoting their business. You can see the need for digital transformation and the way that comes to bear is that you have a technology platform that can serve those needs, right? Whether it is through unique applications that can be delivered quickly and seamlessly.


And pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and extended again by chapter two of the acts of 2023 this meeting will be conducted by a remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner by emailing steve mccarthy at mccarthy s at m or stem a dot gov that's m c c a r t h y s at m or stem a dot gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship and despite best efforts, we will post on the emmerced website and audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. And with that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 523 pm and take attendance. Gaston here Dylan here and I'm here. So we are three here and two absent. There's no one here for public comment. Correct. That's correct. No one here. Okay, so I think what we're just going to do Dylan and Gaston is do these licenses. Special short term that she's coming back. Okay, special short term public license liquor licenses sst dash 23 dash 27 through SS 2829 30 and 31. Gabrielle Gould is coming on. And is Gabrielle in your she is. Oh, she's here. Great. She is. Hi Gabrielle. Hi guys sorry. Hi, thanks for coming back. No, we thank you for Dylan, you're saving the day. Yeah, we got Dylan. All right, so do you want to do a quick introduction I mean this is like last year but you changed a few things right. I think everything for the majority of it is exactly the same the for Friday night concerts will be what we've been doing same vendors same layout same people. The difference with this is Juneteenth, which is going to be on Monday. The last I heard before we weren't getting a form here was that it's moving to the parking lot the spring street and you were sent an updated map. I'm going the weather is looking really iffy so I think it's and going to end up in the high school which means there will be no alcohol no matter what because it's the high school. But if she if if the town does decide to go ahead I'd love to have the permission to go forth with white lion brewery. Okay. All right sounds good. Any questions. If not, is there a motion to approve special short term liquor licenses sst dash 23 dash 27 through 31. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Any further discussion. If not, we'll take a vote Gaston. I Dylan. I, and I vote I that is three to zero with two absent and they're approved. Thank you all so much. Thanks everybody. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So was there anything baby Burke food truck is not does not have a license is that right Steve that doesn't come off. Yeah. I meant to apply for a health license. Okay. Okay, great. So the discussion topics we don't need to go over we'll push those onto the next meeting is that right. I think, did everyone just get to look at the lawyer's comments and the rental regular regulations, which were interesting. And I think it would be nice to have many Joe Hanneke here to go through it again. So, Yeah, they were they were helpful I very helpful for the lawyer to draw out scenarios where we might actually have an appeal. I mean they're still fairly, unlikely and limited, but right. So be it. Right. Okay. So we'll do that next official meeting in two weeks when we have more people here, hopefully. And then the marijuana stuff. Steve you looked just to go over quickly you looked into the subcommittee process. Yeah, so if, if the subcommittee is only members of the board, then no other approvals required besides the board just taking a motion to establish a subcommittee. And the one thing is, so you could meet so you could meet with only two people with that a quorum really need to be two people but that's if the subcommittee is only three people. Okay, I mean, other people could certainly show up, but, and you know, just participate. Not really as members of the public, but not as members of the subcommittee. Okay, but, but yeah, we just have to think about who would be those, those three members. Okay, so do we want to establish that today or do we want to wait for everybody and just do it the way we've been doing it or the way we did it once. Well, I guess it's, I mean, I think the question is, does Doug want to be on it or is he just too busy now. Right. And so I guess I'd like to give him a chance to comment on that before we decide who's on the commit on the subcommittee. Okay, that sounds good. So do we want to post another meeting for next Thursday, and hope that people show up another discussion meeting or do we want to wait until, and I don't even know we're saying we wait till the till and kind of let a subcommittee run with it. Okay, so we don't be so sorry see how it will be gone until July 8 so. Okay, so our meeting but not next three weeks. So are we we're having a meeting on the 29th then, and then the 30 July 13. Correct. Okay. So we just have a regular meeting on the 29th and we won't put one on the 22nd. Okay, well that sounds good. Any further discussion, or on this. I'll probably, I'm going to be attending the subcommittee meeting, you know, whenever we do it, but I imagine it sounds like kind of the way we're going to be approaching it it's going to be pretty informal. So, if, as far as the being a part of the subcommittee, I'm fine to be not on it so that way we can form it with two. I'll show up when I can. Not too much different than our discussions here. Because I imagine the subcommittee anything done in the subcommittee, we just send back to our regular committee to that ultimately. Right, basically yeah the subcommittee can send recommendations to the main main board. Yeah, so I imagine you know probably be a lot of just kind of hashing it out in the subcommittee and deciding it then probably rubber stamping it and not actual meetings because then, you know, we'll all been there to whatever extent we can. It's how I see it probably playing. Okay. All right, great. So we'll wait on that and then mayor on regulation will wait on that also interim police chief. Any, I was just going to say, say who he is and I met with him and discussed some of those things and he will be some of our, our talking points he's open to, you know, an expansive plan for pray street late night dining and he is reaching out to the ABCC as requested so. Fantastic. Good news. All right so we did that did that upcoming meetings agendas. So we're not meeting next week with the adult use subcommittee we are meeting on the 29th. We did subcommittees establishment of Maron. Okay, we talked about that topics not reasonably anticipated any unanticipated topics. I have a question actually before we totally move off from that you mentioned Steve. So members are non members can be on the subcommittee what's an advantage or disadvantage of that. Well I mean I guess you wouldn't really be on the subcommittee but you could offer comment I'd have to get a little bit more details about how exactly that works but I mean the subcommittee members would be the ones who have no voting authority anyway. I think that's an attendee kind of. I believe so yeah I have to. I used to participate in subcommittees before the zoom era. Okay, pretty informal and kind of a small, small table of conversation but. Yeah I mean I'm, I'm picturing the subcommittee, the reason we would have three rather than all five of us on it, just being that we could quorum it at two. Right. You know, I'm having a discussion of all five of us are there. You know, we'll, we'll still kind of run the meeting the same as we, we do procedurally change votes or not. But the other question I'm asking is, you said we can have people who aren't members of this body being members of the subcommittee what would it make sense if it's just for that agenda item to actually see if we want to reach out to anyone that might actually be interested in this topic. The board kind of can vote to institute a subcommittee with with no other members, just by its own vote if there are other members more is required I think it might involve the town council. Or if there's no, if there's no external members and then just the board can just vote to establish it. That's how I understand. That's all I got. On the topic of upcoming meetings and agendas we are running into some real core issues now that that you know Doug and Dylan's schedules have changed so we might have to think of a way to really ensure we can. We will have at least three people for each meeting so I guess at least 29th. Yeah, the three of you. Yeah. Can't really guarantee it right because you might get scheduled. Yeah, it's one of these ones that I can't guarantee and if it's if it's really getting to the point where, you know, we have three people that like can't consistently be here. I mean, if I have to resign the board, I will. I'd like to stay on but if it is causing a forum issue, I think that is a real question of, you know, somebody. Yeah. I mean, it can't be consistent is going to have to go and this to be made. So, when do you have to officially post this meeting? I mean, the 29th. Yeah, so it's always 48 hours of business day before. Okay, so Tuesday by five. It would be five, but for three real estate before to get the town clerk time to. Right. And do you have anything coming down the coming up for the 29, like any licenses coming in that we need to my knowledge. No, okay. Dylan, let me ask you, is there a time of the week when you're sure you won't have an appointment or it's it could be any time. It would only be Sundays Sundays the only day of the door. I will not have an appointment or it would have to be like, early on a week day. Like how early to do like, like, if people were looking to do something like anywhere from like 8am starting to 10am starting that that time range on like a Monday, or a Friday, I could do that consistently. Okay, that's that's interesting. Why don't we have that conversation. Yes, hopefully we're all here to have that conversation. I know on the 29th. Yeah.  I know the day before. Yeah, I'll know the day before if I have like a 3pm appointment or a 6pm appointment. It's the evening before do I do I find out by schedule. And it's always possible that it also changes during the day. But yeah, the night before is usually good for the gator. Okay, I wouldn't say it's time to resign yet but I think we will have to have some more communication to make sure that and, especially for one meeting in the meantime but well Halley's out. So it was month you said Mondays and Fridays 8 to 10 generally okay. Generally okay I think at some point. Don't remember what day. I set something up wrong to be having an appointment at some point during one of those time slots sometime I'll find that out before which day that conflict is going to be so that way there's no issue. Okay, I guess we could all get up at six. Get on zoom. All right. Also, I'm driving into bad reception. Oh, okay. All right. All right, so topics and we're done with that. Gaston and Marion you are definitely good for the 629. Yes. Yeah. Look at it again but I'll be here. Yeah. I mean, to be honest, actually, I forgot. That is not a good day for me. I mean, I can, I can be on the phone to give quorum it's, it's, but I'm going to be on my way to the airport. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah, if we can everyone can if you have some anyone has summer plans if you can email Steve. Yeah, that would be great. I'm going to take that week off. So should we not have a meeting on the 29th? This is well, I, I, yeah, I mean the, the following Thursday would be much better for me. The sixth, I don't know. Let's do the sick week. Yeah. We don't have to set a firm date. I mean, I have an email tomorrow. Okay. Yeah. I mean, how it will definitely be out, but I can ask dog at least. Okay, that would be great. Let's do that. Before we make any firm plans. All right. Excellent. Yeah. One question. I have a hassle for you at all to like text me rather than email because I'm looking at my phone. A lot more for text and I'll get kind of a faster reply to you that way if you ever need something. Is that all the same to you?  I'll try to stay on top of it as well. It's just, you know, a little hectic right now. I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anything else. If not, is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. Take a vote. Gaston. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I go, I, that is three to zero. It's too absent. We're adjourned at 538 PM. Okay. Thanks everybody. Thank you, Dylan for phoning in. Thanks a lot, Steve. You're welcome. All right. And we'll be in touch. Bye-bye. Everybody. Bye.