From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020 virtual brought to you by Red Hat, the CloudNative Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. Hi, and welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Jupp Piskach. I'm covering KubeCon, CloudNativeCon here remotely from the Netherlands. And I'm joined by Commvault Matthew Pearson. He's a senior product manager. As well as David Know, Vice President of Metallic Products and Engineering, to talk about the CloudNative space and data protection in the CloudNative space. So both welcome to the show. And I want to start off with kind of the why question, right? Why are we here, obviously, but also why are we talking about data protection? I thought we had that figured out. So David, can you shed some light on how data protection is totally different in the CloudNative container space? Sure. Absolutely. I think the thing to keep in mind is that containers are an evolution of, and a revolution actually in the virtualization space and the cloud space. What we're seeing is that customers are turning more and more to SaaS-based applications and infrastructure in order to modernize their data centers and their data state and their compute environments. And when they do that, they're looking for solutions that match how they deploy their applications. And SaaS for us is an important area of that space. So Metallic is Commvault's portfolio of SaaS-delivered and SaaS-native data protection capabilities and offerings to allow customers to take the advantage of the best SaaS. It's easy to try, easy to buy, easy to deploy, infrastructure required, and combine that with the technology and experience of Commvault. It'll build over the last 20 years, deliver an enterprise-grade data protection solution, deliver it as SaaS. And so with Kubernetes and deploying in the Cloud and modernizing applications, I think that's very appealing to customers to also be able to modernize their data protection. Yeah, so I get the SaaS part. I mean, SaaS is an important way of delivering services. It is, especially in the mid-market, something customers prefer. They want to have that simplicity, that easy onboarding, as well as the apex of paying a subscription fee instead of longer-term fees. So the delivery model makes sense. That fits into the paradigm of making it simple, getting started easily. I get that, but Metallic isn't a traditional backup solution in that sense. It's not backing up necessarily just physical machines or just virtual machines. It has relevance in the cloud-native space. And the way I understand it, and please, if you can shed some light on that, Matt, how is it different? What does it do that makes it stand apart? Yeah, look, what we've found is the application developer is in control now. So it's not like a traditional backup. That's what's changed. At this point, the application developer is free to create the infrastructure that he or she needs. And that freedom has meant that a bunch of stateful applications, the apps that we didn't think were going to live in Kubernetes, have made their way to Kubernetes, and they're making their way fast. So why is Metallic different? Because it's taking its lead from the developer. So it's using things like namespaces and label selectors to basically take input from the developer on what information is important and needs to be protected, and then protecting it. So it's your easy button to keep that Kubernetes development protected while you keep pace with the innovation within the organization. So you raise a valid point. Cloud-native has many advantages. It also has an extra challenge to account for, which is fragmentation. In the olden days, let's call it that, we had a virtual machine, maybe a couple dozen, that made up an application. And it was fairly easy to pinpoint the circumference of an application. This is my application. But now with Cloud-native, applications' data can basically live anywhere in a single cloud vendor, in many different cloud accounts, across different services, even across the public clouds themselves, like in a true multi-cloud scenario. And figuring out what is part of an application in that enormous fragmentation is a challenge I think is understated and underestimated in a lot of operational environments with customers, with their applications in production. And that's where I think a product needs to figure out how to make sure an application is still back-top, is still protected in the way that is necessary for that given application. So I wonder how that works with Metallic. How do you kind of figure out what part of that enormous fragmentation is part of a single application? Yeah, so Metallic effectively integrates and speaks natively with the Kube API server. So it's taking its lead from the system of truth, which is the orchestrator, which is Kubernetes itself. So, for example, if you say everything in your production namespace needs protection, every night or every four hours, whatever that may be, it steps out and asks Kubernetes what applications exist there. It then maps all of the associated API resources associated with that application including the persistent volumes and persistent volume claims, mounts those up and grabs the data from them as well. And that allows us to then replay or reschedule that application either back to that original cluster or to another one for application mobility or DR. So how do you make sure you... What's the central point where everything comes together for that given application? Is that something the developer does as part of their release process or as part of their CI-CD? How do you figure out what components are part of an application? That is definitely a big challenge in the industry today. So today we use label selectors predominantly. We find developers have been educating us on what works for them. And they've said, our CI-CD system is going to label everything associated with this app, both namespace and non-namespaced resources. So just here, take my label, grab everything under that and you will be good. The reality is that doesn't work for every business. Some businesses drop things into a specific namespace. And then you've got the added challenge that all of your data doesn't actually just live in Kubernetes. What about your image registries? What about its CD? What about your source code control and CI-CD systems? So we're finding that even VMs as well are playing a part in this ecosystem right now until applications can fully migrate. Yeah, and let's zoom out on that a little bit. I mean, I think it's great that developers now kind of have flipped the paradigm where backup and data protection used to be something squarely in the ops domain. It's now made its way into the dev domain where it's become fairly easy to tag resources as application X, application Y. And then it automatically gets pulled into the backup based on policies. I mean, that's great, but let's zoom out a little bit and figure out why is this happening, why are developers even being put in a position of backing up their applications? So David, do you want to shed some light on that for me? Sure, I think data protection is always going to be a requirement. You'll have persistent data, right? There are other elements of applications that will always need to be protected. And data protection is often something that is an afterthought, but it's something that needs to be considered from the beginning. And Metallic, in being able to support deployments not just in the cloud, but on-premises as well, we support any number of certified distributions of Kubernetes, gives you the flexibility to make sure that there was apps and that data is protected. No matter where it lives, being able to do that from a single pan of glass, being able to manage your Kubernetes deployments in different environments is very important there. So let's dive into that a little bit. I hear you say certified Kubernetes distributions. So what's kind of the common denominator we need to use Metallic in an environment? Because I hear on-prem, I hear public cloud. So it seems to me like this is a pretty broad product in terms of what it supports in its scope. But what's the lowest common denominator for instance in the on-prem environment? Sure. So we support all CNCF certified distributions of Kubernetes today. And in the cloud, we support Azure with AKS and AWS with EKS. So you can really use the one Metallic environment, the one interface, to be able to manage all of those environments. And so what about the storage underneath? Is that all through CSI? Yes. So we support CSI on the back end of the Kubernetes applications and we can then protect all the data stored there. And so how does this... I mean, you acquired Hedvig about a year ago, I want to say, but you're on the exact date, you acquired Hedvig a little while ago. So how does that come into play in the Metallic offering? Sure. The Hedvig storage, distributed storage platform is a fantastic platform on which to provision and scale Kubernetes applications and clusters. And that having full integration with Kubernetes on the storage side, we support that natively and really builds on the value that Comma can bring as a whole with all of its offerings as a platform to Kubernetes. All right. So zooming out just a little more, I want to get a feel for the kind of the portfolio of Commvault as we're ushering into this cloud native era, as we're helping customers make that move and make that transition. What's the positioning of Metallic in... Basically in the transformation customers are going through from on-prem to kind of lift and shift cloud into the cloud native space. Yeah. So with today's announcements, our hybrid cloud support and our hybrid cloud initiatives really help customers manage data wherever it lives, as I've mentioned earlier. Customers can start with workloads on-prem and start protecting workloads that they either have migrated or starting to build in the cloud natively and really cover the gamut of infrastructure and hypervisors and file systems and storage locations amongst all of these locations. So from our perspective, we think that hybrid is here to stay. There are very few customers who are either going to be all on-premises or all in the cloud. Most customers have some requirement that keeps them in a hybrid configuration, and we see that being prevalent for quite some time. So supporting customers in their transformation, where they are moving applications from on-premises to the cloud either refactoring or lift and shift or what have you, it's very important to them. It's very important for us to be able to support that motion and we look forward to helping them along the way. Awesome. So one last question for Matt. I mean Metallic is a service, right?  So I wonder, is Metallic itself cloud native? How does it scale? What are the big components that Metallic is made up of? So Metallic itself is absolutely cloud native. It is sitting inside Azure today. I won't go into all of the details. In fact, David could probably provide far more detail there, but I think Metallic is cloud native with respect to the fact that it's speaking natively to your applications, your cloud instances, your VMs, and then it's giving you the agility and the ability to move them where you need them to be. And that's assisting people in that migration. So in the past, we helped people get from P to V. Now that they're virtualized, applications like Metallic can protect you wherever you are and get you to wherever you need to be, especially into your next cloud of choice. And there's always another cloud. What I'm interested to see and what I'm hoping to see out of the QtCon is how are we doing with CubeVirt and Kubernetes becoming the orchestrator of the data center? And how are we doing with some of these other projects like application CRDs and hierarchical namespaces that are truly going to build a multi-tenanted software-defined distributed application ecosystem that Metallic can speak natively to via Kubernetes. Awesome. Well, thank you both for being with me today. I certainly learned a ton about Metallic. I learned a lot about the challenges in cloud native that'll certainly be an area of development in the next couple of years as the CNCF will continue to support projects in this space and vendors to work with us in that space as well. So that's it for now. I'm Juppie Skar. I'm covering for CubeCon here remotely from the Netherlands. I will see you next time. Thanks.


Now, we're going to introduce a new model, the aggregate demand aggregate supply model. Economists like this model because they like to put everything into a supply and demand framework. And even though that is mostly appropriate for microeconomics, there's also a macroeconomic analog to that, and that's what we'll talk about now. Let's start with aggregate demand. Aggregate demand shows the relationship between the price level, that is how much things cost on average for the whole economy on the one hand, and the total aggregate demand on the other hand. So the relationship between the price level and aggregate demand. And here's the main idea. What happens to desired expenditure, planned expenditure, when the price level falls? Well, here's the theory. When price level falls, people's real wealth goes up. If you have money in your pocket, $100, say, in your pocket, and prices are cut in half, then your money can buy twice as much as it could before. Your wealth has doubled, and so the idea is you'll go out and consume more, buy more beer, buy more clothes, buy more something. So how can we represent that on the graph? Well here we have planned expenditure before prices fall. Now if prices fall, let's say prices go down from P0 to P1 in the economy as a whole, then your wealth goes up.  So the planned expenditure line will shift up. And when your planned expenditure goes up, that means your aggregate demand or your demand goes up to here, and output demanded in the economy will expand. So let's show that on the aggregate demand price graph. So let's say we have P on the vertical axis and GDP on the horizontal axis. What did I just show you? What I showed you is that when the prices go down, demand goes up. And we can draw that line like that, when prices go down, GDP or demand for GDP goes up. Voila!


Zahabip! Zahabip! First time chat. Finally got a live stream. Welcome, welcome. I've been following you for a few years now and just created a twitch account to say thank you for the public service you provide with your content. I've been more aware of what is going around in the world politically because of your open discussions and just started making the cure just like you teach in your videos. Again, thank you very much for the time you spent doing it. My pleasure, my pleasure. Zahabip! Zahabip! Thank you very much for creating, going to the trouble of creating a account, joining our twitch and posting a message. I appreciate it really. And I do this because I need to do this.  I want a better world to live in. Really. I'm tired of this clown show. I'm tired of corruption.  I'm doing this because I'm selfish. I want a better world to live in. I want to, I want to go out and play. I don't want these clowns in charge. And that is why I do what I do. And I figured that out in 2015 when I got online. I figured this is what I needed to do. Okay? Because the same clowns are still here. Right? Or those same clowns. Zahabip! No problem. Greetings for Portugal! Portugal! Greetings! I was just wondering if there is like a proof or something that results in the current compound interest formula. For sure. For sure. I don't remember it. For sure. I looked at it at some point. And it's more a derivation than a proof. I guess, I don't know. What's the difference between proof and derivation? Proof is you prove something. Well, no. I'm not gonna go there. But it's a derivation, really. Right? You model it. Exponential growth, compound interest and stuff like this.  And you model according to the data. And you say, oh, this is compound interest. Right? That's sort of the way I would go about it. And then there's mathematical proofs, algebraic proof. That might be the first math question. I'm just afraid when these clowns leave that new ones will arrive. That's why we need everyone literate baby night. That's why we need everyone literate in the language of mathematics. Because once everyone's literate in the language of mathematics, you can call BS a mile away. You see BS coming a mile away.


And I'm sure you can go back to that after the session and have a closer look at what you're going to do today. So this last session is very much going back to the policy-level inspection of client issues. I have three headscarred speakers here with us today. I have the entries all to your new, your BIOS zone. And they are basically just to say it's a very much in the discussion section. So we will have a few questions that we've already prepared for our panelists and then very much we'll give you a few slides to ask some questions to you. So our first speaker today is my name is Malvi. This is the executive of E3G, which stands for Third Generation Developmentalism. It's a non-profit European organization dedicated to accelerating the transition to sustainable development. And in addition to its management role, E3G's work on European climate policy, the policy and foreign policy are very relevant to this session, and to the security implications of climate change and resource scarcity. MiG was created as the senior advisor in the UK Prime Minister strategy and leading work on national and international policy elements, including energy, climate change, countries at risk, instability, organized crime, and fisheries. Our next panelist is Professor Anna Davies. She's a professor of geography here at Trinity. And she also directs the environmental governance research group and is on the steering committee for Trinity Center for Future Studies. She chairs the Royal Arch Academy's Future Earth Ireland Expert Group and is a member of the Royal Arch Academy's Geographical Geosciences Committee and the Fanning and Environmental Research Group of the Royal Geographical Society. She's also secretary of the European Naval Table on Sustainable Consumption and Production and is a member of the National Climate Change Council and she's a member of the Exeter Group on the Citizens' Assembly on Climate Change. And just to say that Anna is speaking in her own personal capacity as an M.I. expert academic here in Trinity. And our final speaker, always from Poland, is Mr. Gregor Gryppichski. Yeah, I got you. He's the head of the Climate Policy Unit and the Department of Climate and Air Protection of the Polish Ministry of Environment. So this combination is very relevant to that. And he's been working on the UNF Tulsi Association since hot-firing in Warsaw and is currently part of the Polish hot-firing program and he's headed the Polish Climate Change delegation to Oberhoi. Among other appointments, he's an alternate member of the Bureau of Criminal Compliance Committee and advisor to the GCF board member and previously worked on international law and the international relations in the College of Europe. So we have incredible speakers here today here to offer all their expert advice. As I said before, this is very much climate, past, present, and future. So I want to figure it out for a minute and just ask you what has happened since the past? Thank you for inviting me to see this amazing event. The first one is that it reminds us how massive an achievement Paris was and whether you follow the environmental development and the policy moves in that it will fail to agree to have them re-reserved in the past. That's quite simply given. So if you can probably even do that, I'll mention again all the information from the world to agree to a binding framework of climate change. It's an amazing achievement, but again Paris made it a safe birth. It did make it safe for British people to make Paris on. But the mitigation still leaves us in the vagus zone of 10 new places where we're all run away from climate change and unfortunately, again, if you follow the science, you'll realize that all of those famous points seem to be closer than we thought they were even more in the United States to Paris. So we need to do more using Paris as a platform to make these happen. So that's really where we are. We need to use the Paris platform to make it more solid. We're really going on increasing ambition, using the Paris moment 75 years to raise ambition. And where are we on that? Well, firstly, I suppose we're getting a bit real. There's some good things that happen in the real economy. Everything we thought is cheaper than we thought was. 30 years cheaper than we thought was going to be running in Paris. That's good. Electric vehicles have come out of the real alternative. That wasn't even a thing before Paris. So everything we need to do is work cheaper and it seems to be easier to do from a technical point of view. But it's also got more real. We realize that we actually have to do a lot of technical options to talk about. Like looking at people's concealed behavior like actually untangling the networks of fossil industries. Again, for US politics, we see Exxon has come out in Washington with government tax 31 million, but actually in Washington State, despite the middle of our companies to stop any government taxing from all at all. So there's lots of hard politics which in our reality is we've got big and we need to work out how to make our changes in the pace we need to do. The second thing that's happened is we've lost political leadership. One company that's going to stop this is France with President Macron who has shown some real leadership even though for the rest of France still needs to sell a little bit more. But particularly with Angela Merkel, the UK being in a progressive bar and therefore not really the table, we've lost a real progressive core of our country. And at the same time, of course, we have Trump and Bolsonaro pushing back on climate action. So the bottom up is doing well and we're seeing leadership from cities and businesses and investors really moving things forward but the political leadership we have running against Paris has faltered and it's not really there to drive our mission forward. And that's really a consequence and a cause of this broader environment. Actually the whole, not so much climate change cooperation but all international cooperation is on the thread. This is one of the reasons why leadership is so lacking. With the rise of trade tensions with great power politics with the idea that we don't need the rules to live on the same planet, we can all just, as Trump said at the UN General Assembly, you're all lovely nations and you're all going to work to do the best for your own nation and the subtext was we're the biggest nation and what we want matters most. You can't run a world of 8 to 10 billion people with a fragile ecosystem with that approach to working together or not working together, where might is right. And actually the whole issues around the trade war with China with the tensions we're seeing all around the world geopolitically are the biggest threat to the climate crisis in Paris. The midterms in the US tomorrow are really going to be available for whether we're going to see Trump as a four year phenomenon or as an eight year phenomenon and if countries see Trump lasting beyond this term they will change their views on a lot of issues and a lot of ways they work together and perhaps we will see a rise of the rogue fossil fuel producers like Saudi and Russia who have been hedging their bets for the last two years really coming together to push back against Paris agreement so that's why we need to push our leaders to be so strong because the geopolitical environment is much more turbulent than we ever expected coming out of Paris. So good things about it but we need to prepare to really push on delivery the next few years or we won't get nowhere near what the OCC is saying is what the plan should be for. I'm sure you have some questions about the Trump effect because of course some Paris happened we didn't really see that coming and I think if you follow on from this point and we know that the countries their national determined contributions of free Paris were not in line with saying under 2 degrees or 1.5 degrees and maybe you can talk a little bit about what I understand since 2015 and we're around with things like the citizens assembly and the national dialogue. Sure, thank you. Yes, I think we have to be very careful to talk about the different spheres of active and I think today has been really, really useful in highlighting just some of the great innovators and creativity that's out there in terms of actors who can contribute to making us a more sustainable climate in New York including climate action and I think what was clear from previous speakers was how these things all intersect it's not just about climate science but it's also about how we live and how we wish to be in the future. So very inspiring ideas in the creative marketplace I think that there is a lot at the grassroots. I think what is difficult is to identify and have an open view of that landscape and certainly some work that we've been trying to do and I know other research projects are trying to map the landscape of innovations and I think having to our hands a real overview of the kinds of activities that are going on would allow better coordination because a lot of the activities which are going on may seem in isolation to be small interventions but collectively and replicated appropriately according to context could really contribute significantly to our collective actors a collective effort. So I think one thing is there's a lot of grassroots stuff and we know that because there are people who are here the activities that have already been presented to you today we also have action obviously sector and the Citizens Assembly on climate action was very inspiring to be part of because of the support that came through the members of that climate assembly and I think for a long time it had been a default position we can't talk about climate change because people will just switch off they're not interested or they become so despairing that they don't take any action and I think the results of the climate assembly showed that there was actually an appetite amongst everyday folk not just those people who are particularly interested or specialised in a particular area to support action so I think that's been a really positive development which has to now be as you can see rolled out through the national dialogue and how we know much more about that than me but that's happening now we wouldn't have one of the regional dialogues or one's happening in November soon, soonish and truly and so these are about creating a conversation about climate action but what concerns me and what I don't have clarity on around the national dialogue is exactly where those conversations go I would like to see a greater pathway being developed where those conversations can bear fruit that we see a clear line of action in conversation to implementation so while that's positive in terms of public action I would like to see perhaps a little bit more and certainly in terms of policy action obviously personally disappointed with the budget recently around action on climate and we don't have a finance promise but there's not a clear line to implementation of that climate and what will emerge through that so greater clarity around that I think is desperately needed in order to not lose this grassroots swell of public interest and commitment to taking climate action because I think we're at a moment where I can really be a leader in just an engagement on climate action but it's an opportunity that must not be wasted because if we collectively do not take that opportunity and particularly political or policy officers take that seriously it will be lost and it will be very difficult to regain that sense of momentum so we are at a cusp I think in Ireland around how we move forward in that regards so we have climate ambassadors I saw that outside the Mercated Marketplace a fantastic entity of a game building with the enthusiasm and the commitment of people to take the message out further the grassroots actions and not only those which are branded as climate actions something like the rediscovery centre for example in Ballyman which it reminds me when we talked about the cup earlier in the Mercated Marketplace these kinds of actions about reuse is like in all parts of the climate equation we must not lose sight of those other actions the climate kick also I notice one of the presenters mentioned the climate kick Ireland is a member of the climate kick Sustainable Nation provides input into this Trinity hosts the journey which is a summer school where participants get to travel around Europe for lots of different actions these are all really positive things the EPA is funding research on climate we have researchers here in the room who have research projects examining both the climate change policy and its even issue we have European funding projects which are looking at these innovative ideas energised for example which is run out of the National University of Ireland in Galway looking at community energy initiatives so it's a huge amount of activity but I want to be able to see the whole landscape a bit clearer and to establish the impacts of all these actions I think that's really important because despite these actions we know that emissions are going up in Ireland so we're moving away from our targets so finance is guaranteed through the key measures in the climate timelines are still unclear I think that's where we need to take the most action I would say it's funny how you pick up the National Library but I'm involved in that just in the Citizens Assembly because I think if that showed anything to other people in your room and let them consider climate action in the two weeks which was unprecedented that they come up with really strong measures and they did come up with 13 very strong recommendations that the government is correctly obliged to respond to but it's being discussed to you so it is the cusp of that Gregor you could follow on when we have Paris and we have our own domestic situation here now we have Poland coming up COP 24 it's very interesting to hear where you see the negotiations going and give us a little insight into that process before it kicks off in a second sure I think when we're talking about COP 24 and its possible outcome hopefully its success in Catamisa there are two dimensions that are not necessarily the same thing one is that the negotiators are wanting to achieve in Catamisa and the other is what the world is expecting in the process working as a negotiator I know the intricacies of the process the dynamics and the literables and for that the absolute mask for COP 24 is to finalize the Paris Climate Work Program which means getting the implementing rules for the Paris agreement for every party to know how to implement its procedures and the better idea is this year and so we absolutely must observe that not only for the credibility of the process but also because of the change in the national environment that we mentioned already probably that's the last moment where we can do it very easy and there is room as for the parties as far as I can see so far the main challenge is it is just the most important hundreds of pages of text the other thing that the negotiators are looking forward in COP 24 is the dialogue the successful conclusion of the dialogue that could prove that the parties are serious about considering global efforts to tackle climate change and there are 20 other items that we need to be finalized one of them is a fresh realization of the local communities and indigenous peoples platform so that's inside the process but the outside world is a sort of action and that's what matters and that's what negotiators are working on to pacify that action but on this point there are there is a limited process to deliver and that's something that we're trying to send to the general public to do a number of our expectation management because in Paris we decided to we decided to go on with the national approach which means that ambition is important that is so important and to the national to actually facilitate and encourage that and here again our experiments are key so that's common platform for every party to engage and to have the pressure internally from the society from the decision makers to take decisions on the mass immigration and in addition to that we're talking about action Poland is a different for instance it's also trying to do something to enable and we propose to maybe reframe a bit the discussion about how do we take action so that we think that comes more than the devising of policy dimensions of the development so we're talking about human dimension, the technology and in that we propose three considerations that are currently worked on by the presidency to take part in the parties to be prioritized in the government or amongst the leaders on just transition so that both for the government and the government the others in certain priorities and third is the partnership for election committees so we know that we can gather as much support as possible for those iterations to complete that and make it successful so we've given an overview of some of the DSPTs that are bringing you a very much honest question so we're going to take three questions from the panelists and so without hearing I see you're in a long time to mention there I asked a question but I just want to put this question to the panel because I really worry sometimes when we talk about these issues unlike this conference which I was really delighted with it emphasised personal responsibility it emphasised urgency and it puts it up to us in some of the impractical ways in our individual lives because we saw from our stage just in chat we're really burning it because people are dead by their life choices at the moment so I just want to point to even showing the best thing each of us can do as individuals is to switch to a plan-based diet and when you look at the statistics you look at the analysis it's terrifying how compelling that is staying at three amongst two and I really don't take an irony because it doesn't have to be plan-based it doesn't have to start to change I'm sorry, I apologise but I'm sorry I just wanted to ask that we have to put this front in centre we have to confront this choice even if we can't do it we have to agree that the potential of plan-based diet is essential and we're really getting out of this especially with a lot of questions there and down here and you're just giving us this very basic yes, I'm sure I think no one cares I'm a charity engineer I can put together an alternative national mitigation plan that could be probably wider in the air but also on the back of the citizens' representative recommendation we have a dedicated body to look at to drive plan-based action as I put together and I'm hopeful that might entail but my question to the panel here and over here today is I do that and I've got very little kind of traction and we can see from it was it last week how little traction and how the feeling the Minister has done in the Senate there's limited political will for this kind of action what can we all do together to push this out because our local efforts our community efforts are admirable but we need something like Professor Lewis' proposal there that's the kind of things we need to push for massive change in carbon taxes, BRT deep sorry, I thought it was important to get the point out Thank you and thanks to the panel for fantastic input so my question is in relation to the upcoming COP so I've heard the expectation around finalising the rulebook etc for the Paris agreement but I also understand that there's a re-yearage of need for pre-2020 action and I wonder if anyone on the panel could reflect on what around thing we might be able to hope for from the upcoming COP to push that urgent action in pre-2020 Thank you, so if we'll get the panel to answer those questions then I think there's a lady and a gentleman there in the middle of the thing that those two hands are making that's the next question So if anyone has questions I'll ask the agriculture such as saying it's not the agreement it's not the agreement that was evident and so it's a very huge issue that we're starting to get into but I'm requiring obviously the last couple of changes is obviously everyone why? Because politics is entangled with lots of field interests and people don't feel the pressure from the other side so I was talking about what he sees as having industry and gassing into your time there's not a single industry impacted by climate change as come to see it so firstly let's mobilize some political constituencies those people are impacted by climate change which in Ireland is the same as because of an inter-agriculture why are they that? the people playing the bills the people playing the bills the industries that are going to be the lobby they will show up at the same time citizens have to really get on the piece and say why are you using the wrong island? why are you using the wrong building the wrong transport system the wrong power system if your money either is a consumer or it's a taxpayer you've got to get to the nitty gritty of why is the money going to one place and the other and let's be clear about this it's politics but it's also corruption everywhere in every country and you solve that by holding your representatives to account there's no other simple way but focus on the money why are they spending money in one way not another and that's where there's a real agenda about making sure your taxpayer's money is not being squandered infrastructure will be the wrong infrastructure you have to replace it for 10 years make it that issue as opposed to a long-term money on COP 24 I don't think there's going to be a huge amount of free 2020 agenda that's being politically massaged away actually most people in most of Europe are doing quite well for free 2020 the emissions have gone up a bit this year but what about debating in Europe beyond 2020 it looks really bad because people aren't putting the policies in heating area, housing and transport it's quite easy to turn off coal power stations and build windmills you kind of know how to do that the next stage is much harder to the politicians and practically it won't look okay in 2020 but that will be a false sense of optimism it won't have laid the foundations for the real deep change beyond us that's why the next two years we really have to put pressure on governments to make new commitments beyond 2020 and back them with cash because otherwise we'll all hit a wall and then the whole idea this is deliverable unravel quite quickly to be honest if we don't make the politicians think more long-term and not in the long-term we might continue this long-term and make sure we can get somewhere near the Paris government I think I would agree with a lot of that and I certainly think the problem in climate change is that it's a systematic issue it's a systems issue we focus on what we can do as individuals we won't react to those systematic infrastructures that we need to put in place so absolute collective action is key politicians do worry about what the voters will pay attention if there is significant collective action and grounds for our form of support as you rightly say there are other actors that are very influential in that system and it's not always visible for us as citizens to see how they have influence and to see what decisions and who's in those conversations so some transparency around decision making will be really important there as well as collective action and we can start those diets again it's a very complex issue because it depends where you are and who you are what kind of plans you're using and where you're using them we all know that it's very easy to dismiss a complete argument on the basis of a single issue and avocados are something that has really been brought to break because they've received a very trendy plant-based consumption but actually are usually making blanket statements but we need to consider just transitions in the Irish context form of all communities to ensure that simply by suggesting that we move towards the form of production of food production we pay attention to those people whose lives are very much reliant on the current system and this works not just the farmers but also those who work in current industries or fuel industries what are these people going to do we need to ensure that there are alternative pathways and alternative income streams to provide for these individuals and these communities and I think that that's really really important so we need something that's win-win for society, economy and the environment and there are no requests solutions out there that we need to consider but it may require shifts in cultural and social norms which have taken place in the past to do that as you rightly say with a long-term horizon with a good island and planet within that decision-making process thank you thank you I want to first address the 2020 issue so in Katowice there is a ministerial pre-2020 stop taking event which is an event from the previous company in Rome and it's going to be a high-level discussion focused on both education and finance in the pre-2020 perspective but if you look into that topic and what it actually can achieve you you might say that well how much we can achieve pre-2020 if it's at the 2018 and decision-making at a national level takes a lot of time in the future it takes more time and what can we still do pre-2020, two years to deliver but on the other hand I agree that there is actually a lot going on in the pre-2020 already in mitigation doha amendments did not enter into force yet but it's implemented by the European Union so historians will be actually nevertheless and finance to deliver half a million dollars per year is also underway despite US engagement plus I think that there is a very positive effect of Irish treatment and the NDC process in theory they apply post-2020 but we can already see that they do have a positive impact already now because countries did engage in a national planning and policy-making but some of that legislation is already in force so countries are in the path not only in Europe but across the world so I wouldn't be that desperate about that just in terms of positive attention from the DC countries working with junior engineering companies having tax incentives for sustainable programs and working more on fossil fuel companies than on sustainable production business Thank you My name is Cassie and I'm the master student of Trinity also and I have a question about the sustainable development and climate change and I have a look at the dashboard for Ireland and while Ireland is in the middle of the world and I have a question about the sustainable development and climate change and I have a look at the dashboard and while Ireland is in the right of the right for climate change I was kind of surprised to see that it's been more than 3 hours which means that it's considered to be likely to achieve the climate change with a little bit of high security and I was a little bit surprised to see that that we're not on track and not leaving our targets And I agree with you that the system is wonderful and I think some of the examples you've seen outside are fantastic and I thought it was in the actual government's action when I thought to get very far so this is my question about the needed challenges that we're seeing and I was seeing more and more recently and I'm wondering what's the colour of view of how important these are and will they push the very much I wouldn't dare to speak to the international situation in Ireland but it's an interesting question about the challenges how the case is that I think it's not playing the impact of those cases is not huge yet I think it affects several governments and some others are looking into that it is for the service based by the definition that's a preventive approach so in the EU we already see that there is a bit of pre-technetics because the cash government is pushing for more action because of that governments who are not in the same position are still a bit more certainly so I'm not sure how effective this approach can be that will depend on how many governments will be challenged in this way as far as geoengineering this is not featured in the negotiations nor in the public discussions but I think for now we can also achieve true communication and truly sequestration by natural ecosystems the participants will be able to decrease themselves so I think that nature is the answer to that and so we will need to get to that those questions are a little outside of my comfort zone but in terms of geoengineering it covers a whole range of technologies and interventions so I think that a one size fits all response from them I know some of the arguments which are kind of alluded to in the previous response around the moral hazard of investing significant amounts particularly in research and development around some of the technologies around geoengineering but at the same time researchers are always like to explore the possible so experimental search for example is something that is all going and may well be extended to be cognisant of the first preference working within our natural systems and not allowing these situations to become sort of trickling into being essentially a moral hazard having to invest in these responses which in some way allow people to perpetuate unsustainable consumption practices again the legal challenges I think it's important that all routes of conversational work are explored and I think it does again show a critical mass of people coming together to push for change and so it's an incredibly important symbolic action I would know whether it will have legal implications I don't know if I'm sure we have some lawyers in the house that may be able to help more in terms of identifying how that process might take place I don't know if it was what the question was but I think if I just didn't know about the reality of the word reality but I think you could put the dashboard as you mentioned completely so but that's not something that you can do Ireland is going to work to be a part of what you mean by doing things easily said, you answered me I think it's quite an advisory panel for you that they would like to know this about that so if I could give you an answer I would really like to answer a few more questions but there will be a recession and this is a lovely catch why I'm sure I'll get to be one of those questions because I could give Nick the final word and we'll look it on to partner one of the video engineers I think is very worried that most of the models that are trying to keep us well we're low to 81.5 have a lot of capturing carbon from biomass and just capturing carbon from the industrial process in power stations we worked as an organization for 15 years on carbon capture storage and putting serious money into it and as a public the UK was spending a lot more on subsidizing more oil and gas exploration or techniques than we are on any of these techniques to sequester so it's one of the areas of entanglement they're very good at using it in PR like Exxon is at the moment they're spending more on the advertisements about their algae programs than they are on the actual research so I think it's really worrying and we need to be very cynical about that and again attack the money where it's going now rather than these mobile pieces the legal challenges the government challenges which I think are quite some countries have constitutions where that will work in Netherlands it works back to the US actually but it's very very difficult depending on how government is set up constitutionally relative to its judiciary but the real problems are being made in losses and where the commercial side is picking up is sewing companies and not doing due diligence and not actually looking at the risk to their businesses or their investment funds properly and the highlight of this for me was California and the suit Exxon because they invested in Exxon for not doing due diligence on this business model for climate risk climate transition risk Exxon has countersued California for not doing due diligence in its municipal bonds which Exxon invests in for climate impact risk which is like thank you Exxon for proving this to the economy that's where you see the latest suits bringing in Poland UK I think that's making board rooms really sit up because that's personal liability of directors actuaries, investment managers pension trustees they can go to jail that they knowingly have not done the best job for their shareholders or their pensioners that's going to make a real difference I'm not going to tell you talking to big mainstream law firms in the UK which is like most of them live this is a big topic because they're defending a lot of these cases against small individuals so I think that might be one of the the dark forces that moves the dial a bit faster than people think it's going to be with so we know what to do you're a Cheryl so I'm very sorry I don't have a lot of discussions to go on for a long time I'm sure it turns out that 8 o'clock tonight in Trinity I'm short of a year there's an art exhibit that's very relevant to this discussion and is Karen Harrell here Karen Harrell is an actor he's a world renowned scientist illustrator in France and he specializes in astronomy and astronautics and some of the cool-dome images in the arts in Ontario and very much there's one connection to his work and so if you're not even heard you all go to the exhibit 8 o'clock in the show here 2 o'clock in the International Development and Insurance Program such a good friend to have a seat after a really self-doubt


Seven things narcissists do when you ignore them. You try to make it work with the narcissist. You try to do everything their way. But nothing you did was ever good enough. No matter what you did, they always complained. So at some point, you get tired of dealing with the narcissist. You feel like nothing you do is going to change the situation.  You walk away. When you ignore the narcissist, they will notice right away. They will notice that you are behaving differently. And there are seven things that they do when they realize that you are ignoring them. One, smear campaign.  Even if you stop talking to them for just a short period of time, the narcissist will run to anyone who will listen. They will tell them horrible things about you.  They will try to make people think that you're crazy. They turn the tables on what actually happened between you and them so that it favors them. They do this to gain sympathy from other people. It gives them narcissistic supply. They will spread rumors and gossip. They can talk to other people about you for hours. They enjoy talking about other people's private lives. And they always manage to find people who also enjoy gossiping. They always manage to find people who believe what they're saying. These people are known as the flying monkeys. And they will often come after you. They do the dirty work on behalf of the narcissist. Many of them are narcissistic, but some of them don't even know what they're doing. If they contact you, it's because the narcissist has told them to do that and they have already been feared the false narrative by the narcissist. Some of them know exactly what they're doing, but others are not fully aware of how their behavior might be affecting you. They just want you to reach out to the narcissist. They want you to help or support them. The narcissist may even contact your friends and family. They will say horrible things about you.  They're always going to tell people that you're doing something wrong. They're not going to see it as though you need space. They're not going to see it as though it's an effect of their behavior. When the narcissist knows that you won't talk to them directly, they will enforce their flying monkeys or they will contact your family of friends. They don't care about your self-preservation. They don't care that you need time to yourself. All they care about is their own feelings and needs.  Two, they will look for new supply. When you ignore the narcissist, they will find someone else to listen to all of their problems. They will dump all of their negativity onto someone else. But their new supply may often be just as toxic as they are. So they may enjoy talking about you with the narcissist. They may enjoy the gossip. Or even if the new supply is a decent person, they may get a sense of reward from feeling like they are helping them. The narcissist will play the victim. They will give sub stories to the new supply. They will say things to make the new supply feel sorry for them so that they will help the narcissist. They want to fix them. The narcissist will then triangulate you with a new supply.  They will do it to get a reaction out of you. They're just looking for a response. They're trying to bait you in. They're trying to entice you because they don't like it when you ignore them. They want your attention. They want you to talk to them. Free. Hoovering. If you don't fall for the bait, eventually the narcissist will be forced to hoover you. This could take a few weeks or a few months. But they will only hoover you if you don't fall for the bait. If you don't fall for their attempts to entice you, when they hoover you, it may be over the phone or through text. But if you've watched enough of my videos, you will have realized that there's nothing you can say to a narcissist. Your only option is to block them. Fall. Stalking.  Sometimes they won't even reach out to you. But they will be watching you on social media. They see you as their possession. They see it as though they own you, as though you belong to them. So they believe that they have the right to monitor you. They believe that they have the right to track your movements. Five. Apology. In some situations, they may even give you a fake apology. They may give you a fake epiphany, as though they finally realize what they did wrong.  So that they can continue to abuse you. They may bring back the love bombing. They may use future faking. They will tell you whatever they think you want to hear. But it's never genuine or sincere. They don't care about anyone but themselves. Six. Rant and rave. They will shout and complain angrily and at length. Sometimes this will go on for hours. They have no control over their own emotions. They spend more time complaining about things than actually taking action because they can't get past their own thoughts and feelings.   They will project their bad behavior onto you. But what they're saying never makes any sense because if you were such a bad person why wouldn't they just leave you alone? Narcissists cannot deal with rejection.  They will criticize you. They need to attempt to explain or justify your behavior as though it's a component of your character. Rather than being in an effect of something they did to you they have to tell themselves that you're no good anyway. So it doesn't matter if you don't want them. Seven.  If all else fails they will just ignore you. You won't hear from them again. They will find someone else who is most susceptible to their manipulation someone who doesn't know what they're about. They will see you as a lost cause someone who they can no longer manipulate someone who is too smart.  They will give you the silent treatment. They will treat you with contempt. Once you injure their dignity and pride they will never see you the same way after that.  Thank you for watching. I hope this video resonated with you. Please like, comment, share and subscribe. If you would like to donate my PayPal link it's in the video description. Coach the Inquiries, you can email me at coachedinarchsurvivor.co.uk Thank you for watching and I'll talk to you soon.


er He's a five wound dude with a five up save.  He is a wizard. He will whap people often sometimes iniometrica with his little power stick Uh He also has a half move spell. He has to turn on his own fly ability. Yes. Yes, he does But you know, there you go. He's he's allureth Technically he can tectonic force people. So there you go. He's got that and he is Immune to rend egg one or rend egg two if he's iniometrica. So there you go But let's talk about the real action here. It's not the stone mage It's not it's not mr. Zen garden It's the stone garden to cow mountains. That's what we need to be on about Stone guard five four hundred points two wins four up save These are the dudes that can be immune to rend two in a unit Uh, they have their little picks or hammers, which are going to be on two attacks Three threes neg one one damage to your standard elite unit profile. We've got multi wound elves right And uh, yeah, you can pick to either have the diamond pick hammers Which can deal mortal wounds Or they can have the Stone mallet the stone mallet, which is yep, which is if you roll a six you add one to the damage inflicted an attack Beneath the attack is successful I am I would be picking the diamond pick every time Only because one it's always good to have another source of mortals and two Because then I don't have to actually go. Okay. I have five two damage hits and seven one damage hits And if you want to be grave guarded you want to do mortal wounds Yeah, like I just I hate any unit that adds to damage out of six because then I have to split up my save Like then I make my enemies split up their saves and wait how how many hold on how many did I have where you had two damage? What was it? Okay, I got it. I can just yep. Cool. Slow the game down more. Got it. No, thank you It's also better to have diamond pick hammers if you're going Yometrica and you have mostly stone guard because then you'll be without those venari some metal weapons So it's like then you're starting at zero and trying to add back in those mortal wound weapons. Yep Yep Uh So yeah, I mean, I like these guys. They're tough. They can be very grindy and they can hit pretty pretty hard Yeah, yep Pretty good. I think they're they're again I feel all of the units in here are well balanced actually like Yeah, I think all four of the main units. I look at them and go. Yes, those have value those have a role I can see using those Uh, and none of them really jumps out to me over the others besides besides the the battle line unit Which I go. Yeah, I punt that in every army that I I think but yep That's probably not that weird. I suppose that your main core unit is actually appealing It's actually a nice change of pace Uh, yeah, all right. So two big mountain boys Then the mountain boys better start learn to fly or start flapping their arms real hard. All right, so walking these end gardens Yes, so the spear to the mountain is the non-named one 12 wounds three up save six inch move he has allureth so he can do tectonic force and he reduces rend and all that kind of stuff If he's near a stone mage He always treats his damage on the on his damage table as being at zero wounds, which is cool Uh, which means he does five damage with his big world hammer This guy is a big hammer. This is how monsters should be dealing damage by the buy We finally figured this part out Uh, because he makes for a base. He makes four attacks threes twos neg two rend five damage now. That's a profile I can get behind Uh, you know, this is the kind of thing that big monsters should be doing. Yeah Uh, yeah, because I mean that's actually scary, right? He has a cool ability called ponderous advice that I'm not sure what actually it actually has much value But it's still neat Because not actually a lot of command abilities in this army. It's actually very dock in that way It it lets you do more re-roll once to head right. Yes, exactly At the end of your hero phase, you can pick one friendly lumeneth realm lords elf hero within three inches of this model If that lumeneth realm lords elf hero is within three inches of this model at the start of your next hero phase like so The whole turn the whole time Then that lumeneth realm lords elf hero can use a command ability in that turn without spending any command points Yep, kind of a neat ability, but yes, I agree. It's just going to be more re-roll ones to hit in certain phases Uh He can do a little shock wave Uh, that basically can give people neg one to hit Which is pretty cool Because obviously what's nice about that is if he's near I actually like this dude hanging out with venari You know wardens in a shining company And doing his stompy stomp because then those wardens are neg two to be hit Yep, when they're in shining company and whole lordy lordy. Oh, yes Now they're getting real defensive And if you're cooking with geminates Sure. Sure. Why not why not slap on the whole neg three the whole neg three thing Uh, then the wardens are going to stick around forever. Yes. I mean it just that or ever ever Uh, so that's cool. And this guy has a command ability. I don't know. Yeah, he's not I just don't understand Yeah, I guess we just decided that core rule doesn't matter So no no no, that's not a thing like What as it's written what this means is that like this command ability can be used if you have a hero on the battlefield at all Like because that's the way that it's worded in the in the In the core a command ability to be used if there's a hero on the battlefield. Yes uh well So this is meant if you have both this and avalanor you're you're making stone guard Plus two attacks. Oh, no, you can't because you can't stack it. No, you can't stack them Yeah, this is this is called faith of the mountains and it can give plus one attack. Yeah, right So you can just spread out that right that plus one to hit. Yeah, yeah Yeah, I just I I this raises a lot of questions. What this makes me to me Is that like changes were made last minute that weren't like fully integrated into the rest of the The book sure that's what this says to me He's a weird thing that the non-hero has maybe the most useful command ability We've never had a We've never had a non-hero Um have a I don't want to say this. We've never had a non-hero Have a demand. Yeah Yeah, right But um avalanors is just better Sure, but I mean he's the named character, right? So he actually is a hero So yes, the other version of this guy is obviously avalanor, which is the named cow king mountain zen garden And uh, so that's avalanor stone heart king same thing six inch move, but he's got 14 runes three up save His hammers are different. He has more attacks six attacks He's three up three up only neg one rend, but he does still do uh five damage So, you know still hits a neg one rend kind of a big deal It is a big shift, but you know, he does have two more attacks at the same time But he's one worse to wound he still puts out damage Like anytime you get damage five Yeah, and they both add plus one to their attacks if this is not a turn of charge Yeah Yep, yep So like and he he has a better one. He does mortal wounds in addition Yes, he has a better version of the command ability where he can pick d three Allerith elf units Holy within 24 inches as opposed to the other guy Like the base version just picks one within 18 So not only is he does he pick potentially more units in d three over one But he also But he also bubbles out farther and and I honestly don't think he's a misprint. I think he's just not a hero and He just Has this command ability and he can only use it if there's another hero around But yeah, it's like a phoenix. It's like they they they needed a generic monster That's also with has good synergies for units. I think is what it's supposed to be Yeah, I don't know. I just I wish that he had Like if he was a hero, he could actually carry an item, you know, like one of those melee items Yeah, yeah, but then this but then this model would be leading an army And I don't see no issues with that whatsoever. Yeah, like okay. It's leading an army Rather than the random wizard in the backfield. Sure I I think that's exactly the intention. They didn't want this model leading an army They wanted the wizards to be the gen like to be the generals I would love I would love love love a like behind-the-scenes story of the making of this book and to know if that guy was ever a hero Right, we'd have to go to an open day for that. I think sure. Yeah. Just say next next time we have an open day I know what question i'm asking I'm asking the designers you're getting a line. All right Tell me what happened. Well, martin, maybe you and I will be over in the uk at the same time next year Once all this is over. Yes But uh, but you know tell me what happened With those with the cow mountains Was the generic whenever a hero walk me through the development process. I want to know what happened with this guy I need like a dvd commentary Yeah Yeah Uh, yeah, so cool Uh, and that's pretty much the army I mean they have some endless spells to the twin stones the one you're gonna see the most often because it's always It more or less can just always sit around and add plus one to cast with potential It would be interesting if they changed that because like the way the battery like the way it works right now is that it's a battery Yes, and that you can all you without changing the dice Like the the little dice token. Can I can I just keep manipulating the twin stones to get plus one? Would be interesting if they said no the minimum you can get is plus two with a ceiling of six Sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah, because as it stands right now, it doesn't really matter if it actually does its thing You're literally just jumping it out there to get a perma plus one. Yes, and I mean, it's not that expensive We're talking about 30 points for that endless spell Yeah, so I would say that's the only thing in this book. I think which is undercosted Yeah, which is hard to say with the army that's already like expensive and like really struggling to fit as much bodies as it is But I think you should be paying more than 30 points for this Yeah, I mean I regularly had 70 points to put a friendless spells in my bill Like and so the question is is all was always what and this is always a top contender when you have an army of wizards Yeah So soar and ask can the unit champion of the wardens and sandals cast the sands at sanctum of Am I mean in the talk and the smell and be in shining company? um Like technically, yes, they can cast the on the spell I mean they are wizards and can cast it the issue is going to be all the tips have to touch On the sanctum and how large of a unit can you actually get in there? Yeah, not not very because it's not it's not actually a huge amount of space. It's literally like that And you know, you're not really going to get a unit in there. I don't even think you could get a unit of 10 Forward. Oh, I think I think you can probably get a 10 tenor. I don't think you're I don't think you will get more than 10 Not having it in front of me right now It'd be hard to tell but you can like the base of twin stones. We saw it next to models It's not very big. It's it's on the page the I believe the base size of the twin stone is 50 mil And like the sanctum is right next to it. I think you can maybe get like Maybe the five dawn writers can fit all their bases in there Maybe So that's not like I don't think that's a unit of 10 experiment can fit in that Well, then then like I don't know who who can cast it then right Ethel are stone mage. Yeah Yeah, I don't know Because they're the they're gonna set up and be in their sanctum. I mean clearly teclis can't because he can't fit in Right. The tips ain't touching around teclis Right. He clearly can't there's no question about that. No teclis doesn't touch tips. There's just no way So, uh, he's too big Uh Yeah, I mean I There you go. Anything else we want to say about this force. I mean overall, I think it's cool Like I said, I actually think that it's a well designed book. There is some areas of npe. There is some FAQs We need I repeat the same thing I've repeated and every time I've talked about design for for ever and ever and ever Which is just please institute a formal development team that'll catch this kind of stuff So we don't have these questions and these these issues come up. It's really easy There's a process Follow it hire a person you're doing very well as a company Hire tom or down find somebody who's like tom. Yeah find somebody who's like you guys don't you don't want me Also the the principle of them hiring tom would be the funniest thing in the universe to me, but anyways Uh, but that being said, I think this is absolutely a successful book. It's versatile. The units seem competitive with each other It's weird Like the heroes are weird and I agree with you tom that it does feel like there's holes Right like in the nature of the leadership in the nature of kind of the the overall army, but but I I wonder if I wonder if it was Like it was designed as a hole and then split I do not believe so I don't know if it worked that way. I know they don't I know they don't um, but it just it makes me wonder Let's that's what I'm gonna say. I I would call that future proofing Because that's what we want, right? I think they just had a conception Yeah, like there's there's clearly thematic like threads that they intend to pull on like For future releases 2023 2024 Whatever, you know, we'll see we'll see the lumeneth part two Um, I do have one question for you vince and I apologize if it if it requires more unpacking than we have it for the conclusion But um, when you were going over, um Some stuff with rob in the a in his a OSHA the first one When you just talked about lumeneth and passing it's like so What what design elements would you point to just like in summary that um For lumeneth artificially or unnecessarily raise the skill requirement to pilot The use of the aethercourt's more of these these these resources that you've got that you've got to burn and track Right.  I I I I think it's it's Especially since uh more factions getting their own. Well, and here's what I'm saying watching tom with aethergold tom is a great player and has a very sharp memory And multiple times over the weekend when tom and I played a bunch of games He was like did I spend my aethergold on this unit? So like number one get yourself game aids get yourself some tokens and put them next to the unit Right because you will forget You'll use that you'll use your quartz in round one and round three will come around and you've made Hundreds of decisions since then and you will literally just forget so have a little token Put it next to the unit. Okay number one that kind of stuff. I think raises it Uh, uh makes it more complex. Okay the nature that the of uh Of the way the army interacts it can fall apart like a house of cards if you don't use your stuff correctly Right like a lot of stuff in this army is actually quite squishy And if like we've talked about how tough it can be that's in the hands of sort of a pilot That's going to understand exactly how to mobilize and use these pieces correctly Right. Yep.  You don't protect techless properly, right? Whatever You know what I'm saying like you could pick a hundred scenarios that somebody who doesn't pilot this at sort of the again I'm not saying it's an impossible army to play. You asked what raises the skill floor that kind of thing raises the skill floor Right when it rides on sort of a knife edge of like you make a wrong move. You'll lose a unit for nothing Yep, that's a higher skill floor Yeah Not a bad thing just a thing. There's no way I would say I would recommend somebody just starting out in aos to use this army Tectonic force madness shining company madness Okay, yeah movement trays are back for this army only Sure. Well only some movement trays like element games specific. Yeah, it has to be done Sure, I I'm just saying like in general like the idea of of this army of all armies Having some extra real old school Like I don't want to I don't want to just use a blanket term like nostalgia mechanics But it's like it there are there are clear intentions At the the the the top end of this book like the allegiance abilities to make it feel like Old school war hammer. Sure. Yeah. Oh also another thing by the way, martin The fact that you might have like 11 or 12 casts in a turn I mean if you might have like 16 or 20 I have I have access to 17 spells in my current zytrec list including endless spells Yeah, that's a high skill floor right there instantly because you've got to navigate like a whole lot of garbage It'd be like wait, which which went out of this like it's like you're literally a wizard flipping through a spell book trying to figure out Which spelled a rip off. Yes, right And I only get and you only get uh six casts. So it's like you have to choose wisely. Right, right, right Yeah, so yes, I think that kind of stuff absolutely raises the skill floor 100 Right Yeah, I would not recommend this to a new player No way know how this is not you're a good first army is a bad first army very bad Okay, don't start here unless you look at this and you've fallen in love with it Like the as always aesthetic wins over everything, right? So if somebody just like asked me in the raw and said, I don't really I'm not attracted to anything All else being equal. This is a bad starter army uh You know if but if they if they came to me and was like, I love this army I love its aesthetic. It's exactly what I want. I'm deeply in love with old high elves I'd be like, okay, go ahead just understand you're gonna have to like You know learn Like really you have to put some time into this one. It's not a low bar Right, otherwise, you're gonna have some bad time. This army is the army of piecing when you should have french fried So I mean just know that Yeah, that does not make it a bad army Just let's let's just Really really hammer that home. Yeah, it does not at all Okay, cool. All right, John. So all in all I say positive, right great stuff. Good. Absolutely Yeah, and and we can't wait to see LRL to Tyrion boogaloo the yeah the Sunflowers Yep, Tyrion first blood part two.  Sure, uh, man, I hope when they make his model. He's like actually Big like like these the size of like tech listen all the gods are all the elvish gods are larger. Yeah, they're 54 mil Yeah, I want him to be the same size and like just a blind dude and kind of the Just like some robes. It looks so sweet the giant sword. Amazing Yeah, but he'll probably have a big companion too with like a porcelain mask that is like Um, this is our nameless students thanks creature. They cannot both have weird friends No, like he you seems to have a horse Sure, I'll take I'll take a horse, but it has to be a six legged Don't die. I think I'm gonna say I like a six or eight legged horse No, six legged horses are classic mythology a horse. How about just a horse? It'll be a six legged horse. It'll be a horse in a 160 millimeter base. There you go Okay, I'm okay with that.  I'd take it. All right.  Thank you very much for watching Hope you enjoyed the review and the discussion As always though one of the but if you did enjoy it, hey, you know what just move that move that mouse over Just that much just go here to here Click give it a like it's just that easy clicking like it's so simple and so fun You'll be happy you did and it really helps other people find the show find the and and find the channel and things like that And I very much appreciate that Martin, thank you very much brother. Great to have you on. Thank you very much Absolute pleasure. Well, of course have martin back and it will be sometime before teclis comes out. Don't worry But beyond that all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching next week is going to be the ghb So come back for that. We've got a mega show planned for the ghb. It's going to be a good time But as always, I thank you very much for watching this time and we'll see you next wednesday My mouse broke No, no, it's fine. It's working. Ah, bye