So people who think that ahu jama na hemba 2, na kwa saa the same thing people think, ahu willis ana kuja tu na cheka na sama bebe na nalipua, you see, so people have that already that bias towards these guys have it easier than me, there is that jealousy, then number 3, there is also, it's a mindset, where if you go to the comment section and you find the first people want a DC song, where you ato jaiskia, want a DC do, at least ato upata nambas. The same numbers your creed says, they got the people from having, so I think if you just come together as a country, you just come together as a people and stop the hate and just appreciate, and that's why Tanzania is the way it is, that's why Uganda is, you go to Uganda club, you go to Tanzania club, ato cheza kidogo tu, notable songs from yes, or songs that are just closely related to them, aka utilebrau na kasa uti sol, and then after you want to endelena nangobazao, so if you could just support the people more, that's why show up for listening parties, show up for events, show up for album launches, show up for events, like again I said events, probably that culture is coming back, I'm glad that people are doing events, you see 6,000, 5,000, 3,000 people showing up, that's a good thing, that way, you know if you do an event, so many people are benefiting, there's the guys who preach these things, there's protocol, there's taxi services, drivers, food, fashion, security, everything, so many, it's such a big ecosystem that if you just realize that there's a space for everybody somewhere, and come together, then we'll change this country, in a way after to record how much kusumbasa are kali, lakini wafanya kazi ndio, Baaz. All right guys, welcome to SPM Baaz, I'm hanging out with the media personality Willis Raburu. Niko salama usalmi buheru apfia sinanenu nina meno. We are here right at the KICC, the Nairobi Festival of Costs Battle of the Choirs, what's your role Willis? So I was part of the committee that was organizing the battle of the choirs appointed by our governor through the CECM of inclusivity tourism arts, that is Sri Lantoy, and of course the chief officer, one Klementrapudo, so we've been part of it, my task was media communication and also resource mobilization. Brilliant, now how is it going with communication because you know letting out the agenda of this, the battle of the choirs, how has it been for you? I mean it's been good, it's been, you know, what we did or what the governor realises, of course people have been at the festival, which everybody enjoyed the week last year, one weekend it's going to be there again this year. So what's happening now is that the church is also a very important constituency and now specifically during Easter they needed a celebration for themselves, so they became the primary target audience, over 100 and something, over 100 choirs they submitted their videos because they were supposed to submit your video, then we picked 38 who are now who competed first round yesterday, then today is the finals with 17, the governor has been gracious enough to make sure that out of those 38 each of them will get 100,000, but of course the winner gets 2 million, 2-1 million, 3-500,000, so the aim basically is just to show different people that you know because there is culture and arts and tourism, which is a new docket in Sakajas government and so it is to promote art across the board, so you see atawale wa na kwa ii pesa niya kwaia, I endi kwa accounti ya kwaia kwaia kwaia kwaia kwaia meimba, so it is to show them that you know this talent that you have ina lipa, ina jipa, kusama encouragement, yes and I think communicating that has been good, the choirs have responded, yesterday we had 6,700 people show up here, today is the finals so as the day progresses I'm sure more people are going to come, more dignitaries are expected to come and ya we are excited and it's good to be part of history. For sure, of course Willis has been someone who is really interested in the music industry of this country, how do you think we are doing, what's the status quo? I think we are doing well, I think we get a lot of side shows and flak for certain things but I think we are doing well, I think if you even look at the industry 10 years back in now we are at a very advanced stage, music has been taken more seriously, people are taking time to put together their bodies of work, I like for example what Mutori has started doing with his own kind of version of Tiny Desk, ya know that acoustic feel, everybody is putting in new people like Brandy Minor and of course Kina Suda who has a brand new album out, BN doing beautiful things with Arya Star, I mean so it's encouraging to see people push the envelope and then people work together, like yesterday was an event in Eldoret, I saw BN, VD, all the people coming out to support each other, Callagraph Jones, OG, Papa Jones, Daddy, so I think we are doing well, I think collaborate, people are realizing that if we work together we will go further, that's a good thing and then people are also taking time to make music, ya know there is a time when, of course there is a one of him and Mutori has a time when he is the one who is the one who is the best, but then the people who are sitting down to make their EP, take you through a journey, make their albums and planning launches, listening parties, corporates are working more with musicians and artists, so even TikTok and dance is growing as well, so I think we are doing well and if we are not doing well we will not have these people come here, all these other artists from Nigeria and all them to come and Tanzania to come and sample our music, I just believe that we have our musical test buds in this country is diverse, which is good, so that means that we should just try to keep up and support each other and support our own, but Willis why do you think that we actually don't support our own because when you look at YouTube streams and all that, we support Tanzanians more, is it the type of music that we do or what's up? It is neocolonilism. I think also you know and this is something that I've experienced myself, people are going through diverse things in this country, so I think the more the years keep on moving forward, the more people are empowered, the more the art, the creative industry is supported, you'll see a change because you see somebody is probably done up to his masters and he's still looking for a job, then you see somebody who has shot a music video with a phone who has a million followers, he's now earning from YouTube and he's famous, somebody who is dancing in TikTok and he's famous, so to them they think that those kind of things, these guys are, they have it too easy, but content creation is a tough thing to do, creating music, that creativity is also a tough thing to do, especially the business of music, the business side of it is also tough to do, getting aggregators to support you, getting your YouTube money, all that stuff, those are things that people don't know happen behind the scenes, I've done a music video before, done music videos actually, supported other artists doing music videos, it is expensive, so people who think that I would demand him but too, na kusaha, the same thing people think, awulisa na kutia tu na cheka na sewa mabebena na lipoa, you see, so people have that, already they are that biased towards, these guys have it easier than me, there is that jealousy then number three, there is also, it's a mindset, yeah, where if you go to the comment section and you find the first people who want a DC song, wewata oje iskia, one at this door, at least atu wupata nambas, the same nambas your creed says, the people from having, so I think if we just come together as a country, we just come together as a people and stop the hate and just approach, and that's why Tanzania is the way it is, that's what Uganda is, you go to Uganda club, you go to Tanzania club, what achesa kido go to, notable songs from, from yes, or songs that are just closely related to them, a kauti lebrau na kasa uti sol, and then after you want to learn nangobazao, so if you could just support our people more, that's why show up for listening parties, show up for events, show up for album launches, show up for, for like again I said events, the poly that culture is coming back, I'm glad that people are doing events, you see 6,000, 5,000, 3,000 people showing up, that's a good thing, that way, you know if you do an event, so many people are benefiting there, there's a guys who preach these things, there's protocol, there's taxi services, drivers, food, fashion, security, everything, so many, it's such a big ecosystem that if you just realize that there's a space for everybody somewhere and come together, then we'll change this country, in a way hata to record hata kusumbasao kali, lakini wafanya kazi ndi ho, but yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now I have to ask you about Talanta Hela Kansu Willis because you know we have artists now representing us, people who are inside, you know they understand the struggles of the artists, you know, but what are your expectations from this council? Well I think they have a let me tell you one of the things that has taken a backbone in this country has been talent, so first things first, just for the existence of the committee, that's a plus, as to people's qualms about who's there, who's not, who should be there, who's not, I think just like I have a friend who's called Steven Sheterra, whenever we talk about football clubs and new managers, he keeps saying give them time, so what I'd say is give them time, if at the end of this period they have not delivered then you have justification to say okay next time don't choose people like ABCD, but if they deliver tangible, now not just PR, you know something we can sit back and say this is a result of this committee, when well and good, I think let's let's give them time, there's nothing much you can do now, yes there's a case in court, but pending the outcome of that case there's really nothing you can do, so the best thing you can do is find out how we can work with them and then move forward. Number two, I'll quote another good friend of mine also called Shatterboy who keeps telling me the battle, the victory is not for those who want it, it is for those who a show up to bargain and negotiate, so you need to instead of being especially kamawe ni msani pewe so let those people who are, they are do your job, let it be like the provable government in opposition, where fanya kaziako keep them in check, if you think you know the issues that need to be addressed, find channels to address, I'm sure in that list of people you know one to three people, find a way to put your concerns towards them, if they listen find, if they don't again call them out, keep them on toes because now that is taxpayers money and it's no longer business as usual, so that's how I'm going to talk to the normal neighbor, the normal presenter, the normal, this is now they're using taxpayers money and they even they themselves need to get know that they need to be accountable, so even atawaki when they are called out instead of sharing away let them justify and say to mafanya ABCD when they can, of course you don't answer every criticism but let's give them time, let's see how that goes, let's see this is a matter of time now you know Willis, their parents who don't really support their kids getting into art, is it something that you would support your child to actually get into? I always joke with my fiancée, I don't know who my son Mali is, so he's just learned how to kick the ball, he kicks the ball and then he leaves, and let's see if he can let us scout what he's designed, I never copy him and he's a manager stroke agent. Retirement plan, I don't have any support, but I think what a serious thought though, I think in a world where we have so many graduates and so many people going into schools and coming out without jobs, if your child has even from a very young age if they have some talents that they show and exhibit, it doesn't necessarily need to be drumming, singing, it could be a tattoo artist, it could be a DJ, it could be that they are just good with coding, so you focus on that specific thing for a child and of course once they settle what is going on with CBC, that is what it's supposed to do, the CBC model is supposed to identify things outside of the Black and White, outside of the Black and White. So I think parents should really encourage support, even support financially, and if you can't moral support, just your son, your daughter knowing that you're watching, I've seen sometimes I remember when you used to host the gangiton artist and people are bashing it in over 10, but for me I go to see before they go on stage and they call their mum and say I'm just about to go on stage mami and then when they finish they go and say and just that for them, it means a lot, so let the parents support as much as they can, even if you don't understand it, support it, so long as ma potei nasi madre, we've got such a mum, Talentiyangu na niku, kusa madar oza ni ni, apa nasi yo, but as long as it's legal, support it. Now, niki malizia, Willis, Manu na kupelikaze, and do you actually think, because now I'm a CBC Manu tumetoka kwa, tumesha choka, do you think Arsenal is going to go home with this title? Ashindue, sasa, as of yesterday, with that draw, if Manchester City, you can do the mathematics, if Manchester City win all their games, they don't, awa na shinda, now remember you all their games, kuna April 26th, wana chesana Arsenal, so Akishina na Arsenal, sasa tenanda mihenda, zahidi, I've seen Pep Guardiola saying he loves these last few games, that's when he thrives the most, he loves being that adrenaline here, the last few games, na awa na kumukal tushina kama Manu na Saju Aguero at the stadium of lights na QPR, Aguero! So, asenali, I would like to say, manage your expectations, he mihenda, and number two, kama Manu, CC29, you see that thing for give them time, we are rebuilding, we are rebuilding Pola Pola 2, one big mistake for Arsenal that I saw even in the game against Liverpool, is they still need to work on their discipline, they are young, they are great, I tell to my friend Kazimzuri, we have to salute where it is necessary, bada, bada, bada. Na Ujiwa Manu, kama Manu kikombi achai na itwa karabao, tuko na awa, awa wakiluz, watakwame fanya ikitiyote na ita kikombi bada, na after 19 years, gai moha zani. Na Ujiwa Manu, bada isa itu, na shida efe, bada tuko Europa, wa cheni mungu eitu mungu. Efe itu na ita mehashi. Sindio? Uwade dhe! Alright Willis, thank you so much for talking to ESPEM BADZERS always. Wagwan, wagwan, wagwan. Chara to ESPEM BADZ, manu fanya kazi. Futisana, you are the future. Wagwan. Okay, alright. Thank you. Alright guys, that was Willis Raburu Media Personality, Palais Citizen TV. Thank you so much for watching.


All right, now it's really time to start taking care of those bushings Forgot to show you so this moves won't be able to move it now, but You can trust me on this Guys, I don't believe this the bolt is actually spinning Wow, but I believe The bolt supposed to go From this side, so this has been Most likely replaced but you see anything wrong with this picture Now look closer What do you see here? This is supposed to be knocked in Into this cut out Into the CV axle I'm gonna have to check the other side so the nut doesn't spin doesn't you know spin out It's the cut parking brake line I was talking about Which I am not supposed to address so if I take this out am I going to be able to Move this out, okay, let's take these out actually forgot to disconnect the brake line So I actually have access to The bushings now we can take a look at it Look at the movement I mean We'll move it with my fingers this one not so much A little bit less a block of wood On the bottom so doesn't stress too much the bushings you see this this one was Worked on before You can see hammer marks right over here and this one's been done here for a while So maybe they replaced on this one and not this one don't know or maybe some generic not original bushings Who knows all right when I use this ball joint service kit or remover Installer To remove those bushings So that didn't work really don't want to take this control arm off because I need to take Well two bolts, but to rusty Nuts and bolts and that's part of alignment this one over there So Hoping I could get away without If I try push it from this side, or I have another idea and one pushing out Three to go. Oh man doing that on the floor Not good. All right, so I'm gonna continue hopefully I Pray I'm gonna have an Easy time taking that Jesus bolt out on the other side, but more or less half the battle is over And if anything comes up, I'll let you know guys like I kind of missed Hitting record. I want to show you what my setup was taking those bushings out Wanted to show you how I did the other side because I found this Brace From whatever it may be and it fits Right Well the bushing fits right through it. So This side here. So what I did so I took this race put it right here like so and I took this What is this 20 22 mil socket? Impact and I fitted this this way in So it wouldn't fall off and imagine this being the You know the bushing the end of the control arm and that was it that pushed the bushing out Went right through there inside This tool here And I got the whole thing out and look at this. This is the bad one. This is actually the one that Had the slack this this thing is shut. I mean this rubber It's almost none none existing on this side There's some left on this side, but this is really thin anyway, so I can now Measure this and whatnot and Get a set and I decided not to do this side because this side is actually good The wheel does not move at all side to side. So these these bushings. I mean they are old most likely original But they're fine and the Jesus bolt on this one It is actually the nut is on this side and the bolt is on this side Obviously on the other side was the other way around so they were messing with that side You know sometime before That's why the bolt came out this one won't budge at all so I Thought I'd do the right thing and not do it Got this guy out. This is new super tight guys These don't have to be him and tight, okay But I managed to take them out. So now Outside is basically taking stuff off is done gotta move on the inside


And so then let's look at the statements, these are the things that you're sending out periodically again to follow up on the outstanding invoices so you can list each transaction as a single line list each transaction including all detail lines. So notice if you've got fairly short invoices meaning you don't have a lot of line items on the invoice then you might just list each transaction including all the details because there's not a whole lot going on. But if you have these really long invoices then when you send out the reminder maybe you don't want all the added detail on the invoice because the invoice is really long. So maybe in the statements you list each transaction as a single line because it's like a summary and then show aging table at the bottom of the statement. This is like a little table that'll show up at the bottom showing how past do it is. It looks kind of nice. It's on by default. I would keep it on by the default.


Kitson County taking a trip to Nevis to take on the defending section champs. Tigers lead 6-0 in the first. Luke DeWolf takes the snap. Takes a look and then takes it himself. Breaks the goal line. They go up 14-0. In the second, same score Nevis driving. DeWolf throws one over to Ben Solzwisch who comes down with it. That's another touchdown. Nevis takes a 22-0 lead. After a Kitson touchdown, Nevis driving before the half. DeWolf lobbed one up to Keanu to Bandith. That's another touchdown. Nevis with a statement in the opener. They win 36-21.


Gabrielle is a San Francisco real estate broker and investor with more than 18 years of experience. So far she has published three books about real estate investing and is working on the fourth book in the series. She lives in San Francisco with her cat and loves to travel off the beaten path and connect with people their cultures and languages. Please welcome Gabrielle Dom. Thank you so much. Can you all hear me. Perfect. Perfect. I am going to start sharing my screen. No, no, no. Here we go. And then we'll go to the presentation. Perfect. So everybody hopefully can see the presentation in the background. And I want to welcome all of you. Thank you for your interest in negotiation strategies and tactics as they pertain to real estate. Right. I, having said that I would like to let's see here whether I can actually advance the slide there we go. Sometimes you have to forgive me the slides don't advance when I tell them to. Anyway, I just quickly wish to reiterate what Christie also just said, and that is that nothing in this presentation is either legal or financial advice, and that you always ought to be consulting the appropriate professionals about your situation, your goals, and also any particular property you're talking about. Right. With that, let's move into what we'll cover today. The first one is why negotiate, meaning the importance of negotiation. Then we'll talk about negotiation pillars and negotiation in real estate will address some strategies and also some tactics. And then of course you will get a few takeaways at the end. Let's see the next part one second. All right. Okay, the next part of course is that if you've attended some of these webinars that I've done, then you've already seen this slide and I sometimes change it up a bit but in case you don't know me yet. There is just a little bit about me at the bottom you see the books I've written thus far the fourth volume is currently in production, and should be coming out within the next couple of months. Just a little bit about myself. I have been in real estate some 20 years, both as an investor and a broker, and I am a long time resident of San Francisco I've been San Francisco almost 30, no 30 years actually. Long time I've seen a lot of changes, some of you may be natives some of you may have come more recently so all there are changes like in all places. And the next part is that I possess both a bachelor's and a master's in real estate real estate. Yes, it would would be nice in history. That's a Freudian slip. And that often informs the way I present and also the way my books are written. Right. The next part is that I was raised in Germany, and then have lived in this country a long long time. And finally that I love to travel the world when I can my right now of course, it is a little more difficult to do that we're still in the pandemic, and my next trip that I'd love to do is actually going to Bhutan and doing some trekking there. All right, you've seen this slide now you know a little bit more about myself. And let's go to the first poll. Christie, would you please do that. Maybe I will launch this poll. Yeah, so for those who are on the phone it says on a scale of one to 10 how comfortable are you in negotiations. Not comfortable at all. And curse you I can't see the rest of the answers. That's just a scale of one to 10. Okay scale one to 10 not comfortable at all to very comfortable. Yes. All right. That's very important information I think everybody who's answering that particular poll. Thank you very much. Do you agree with the poll. Yes. Okay. Okay, perfect I always have to get out of that screen. Having said this let's get started with this question with the presentation and the following question. That is. What image does the term negotiation actually conjure up in you. That's what comes to mind. Perhaps you, like many people believe that that's what you have to be that negotiating either means having to deal with a shark or assuming the role of a shark. If that is the image you have, you are not alone. And most of us have some idea of what negotiation means, and we actually engage in negotiating all the time, whether in our personal or in our professional relationships, and we even negotiate with ourselves. I certainly do. One of the reasons however that we feel either that we are poor negotiators or just don't like it, meaning I have I really don't want to negotiate I don't like it. One of those reasons is that asking for what we want might bring judgment from other people to us. If you're like me, you probably dislike being judged. And of course, being a shark, or being seen as one is even worse. This is of course something the media has has perpetuated that view of having to be a chart, and that makes for great TV, but it's actually less applicable to negotiations. And the intent of today's presentation then is to navigate negotiating terrain in better ways. Alright, our topic is real estate negotiation. And that is in the buying and the selling process, meaning the objective is to consummate a transaction sometimes we've referred to transactions also as deals. And we all want to do a successful investment in property or whether it's buying or selling. Okay, the parties in negotiations have something at stake. For this reason, what's a stake for you as well as for the other party is important to note. Do you have a lot to lose. Does the other party have a lot to lose. How are those stakes different for you and for your bargaining partner. We live in San Francisco and the market here remains high priced. Even during the pandemic properties sold some of it for large amounts over asking. But even if you're in a seller's market, how much of a property sells for depends on individual negotiation positions. What I mean is that every seller sells for different reasons for instance, what they might be retiring, or they might go through a divorce, people might have inherited property, they might have lost a job, or other such other situations apply to them. The sellers that I just mentioned, have different timelines. They also have different interests, and finding out those details, meaning as sellers interest and constraints will strengthen your negotiating position. When doing that, you set yourself apart from other folks in the market, and that is true, even in a seller's market. But all of these tenants that I just mentioned are actually applicable to all negotiations, whether in real estate or not. And next let's go to a list of what's negotiable in real estate the first one is price and that's what most people think about immediately when thinking about negotiations. The second one is terms, meaning timelines or certain contingencies, then we have inspections which can be put into a contract as a contingency. Next we have repairs and repairs and inspections are often connected. And then down payments. Most of us believe that down payments are less negotiable and sometimes that is true but not always. Okay, so we'll get into some of these things and then of course you can also negotiate leasebacks or redbacks in the property. Other things many other things you can negotiate contracts are completely negotiable. Now, whether everything, even though everything is negotiable is also doesn't mean you can you should be negotiating at all so choose what's most, what's most important, because that is actually what's going to set you apart and help you to get what you want. I hope that makes sense. So for instance, other things you could negotiate would be home warranties or a to a dues or parking fees, etc. Okay, let's talk about another a tenant or underlying parts that that is important in negotiations. There's one more closing cost okay I'll add that it's as the last one let's go to the next one so here is you see the skills and you will see the concept of fairness well the reason I put this in here is that immediately when you come to the negotiating table anywhere, the concept of fairness shows up. Well, what does that mean, it means that sellers want a fair price. It also means that buyers want to pay a fair price. And of course, both parties have ideas about what fair means in this case. So, I'm knowing that knowing what a seller considers fair, what a buyer considers fair, those are very important components. Now when it comes to price, it's going to be what the market dictates usually, but still there might be other things that you could do to pay a fair price, which is not just about price or the dollar signs on it. All right. How do you arrive at that solution that actually gives fairness to both parties that's another component. Instead of going on on this. Let's go to the next slide, if I can get there. No, it's not there we go and that is the value of money. The reason that slide is in here is that money is about people's values. Perhaps that is the value of money. We're not talking about inflation here we're not talking about the economics of money we're talking about what actually underlies the value of money so if you have $100 and I have $100 and what whatever we decide to you decide to spend that money on whatever I decide to spend money on really will show our values, maybe not right away but eventually it will show up. Okay, so even though negotiations are stensibly about money, they're never about the money. Does that mean sellers don't want to get money. No, it just means that they have a certain attachment, if you will, or certain values that this money that they want represents to them. It requires of course, as well. And that's because we infuse all of us infuse our, you know, money with our values as I already mentioned, with those things that are most important to us. People and as such it's personal and in real estate investing this becomes important because money can represent security, it can represent pleasure it can represent freedom, it can represent education, it can represent film, the philanthropic interests and so forth there are many things that we need to do to make sure that you know to do to understand what values you ascribe to money is a an excellent start and once you understand that it will make it easier for you to understand the other party. The other parties values wants and needs are just as important as yours, and that is some part every negotiation benefits from in terms of preparing for it so that's why we're talking about this I know it's a longer presentation. I have, I think a resource in the bonus PDF that you will be getting after this presentation that talks about the value of money and so forth. And maybe in ways you've never thought about it. Okay. Really, what you want is, you know, some sellers will tell you well you know what what do they want. I just want the most amount of money I can get. Well, why is that important or why that answer. The answer is actually becomes more nuanced so your agent can ask them, if you have an agent, okay, can ask them about about what they value most, and the good agent will be able to read between the lines. All right, and you should have a conversation where you actually assess what's most important. Of course everybody wants to get the most amount of money, and every buyer wants to pay the least amount of money. So that is the conversation that is really important in negotiations you need to understand what money actually means in the context of a negotiation, and become aware of the values, and what that what that actually means so study the subject. And yeah study the subject in detail if you can. Let's move on to another negotiation essential and that is ask for what you want. Well ask for what you want sounds easy but it's actually often very difficult. It's difficult is that fear may immediately raise its ugly head, because asking for what you want is often considered both selfish and brazen. That's part of different cultures, it's part of what you know how to please others, etc, and asking for what you want it right away that's one of the main reasons many people dislike negotiating because they're not asking for what they want. Now there is, of course, and a caveat to asking for what you want. It's one thing to ask for what you want, and be what I call realistic about it. And it's another thing to ask for what you want. And it's totally out in, you know, the stratosphere somewhere dream, and by the same token understand that asking for what you want needs to be tied to what's actually not possible but what's actually required in the negotiation, you might find yourself in. Yeah. All right, the last point I want to say about this, asking for what you want is that sometimes people believe that they must give a justification for what they want. Well, you can but I don't recommend it, I would say, state it and leave the justification out all you have to do is ask. No justification necessary, unless the other party wants you to give one. All right. And now the other component to this is, you naturally must know what you want, if you don't know what you want, it's going to be very difficult to ask for what you want. So that's, that's important. And when you know this, it helps you to stay in control of emotions, and also to know when to walk away from a negotiation. It's very, very important to know that component. All right, since we're talking about that, knowing the party, the other party, the party you're negotiating with is absolutely essential. Why is it because all negotiations are really about people and negotiating by definition means finding agreement. Well, finding agreement usually involves the other party, because you have to come up with something that's acceptable to you, and to the other party. Because of this, what the other parties does and says or what you do or say, affects the process of negotiating. And it also affects of course, whoever your counterpart is, and how they're responding. So very important components. You know, we've already mentioned sellers sell for different reasons, for instance, all of that is going to be important in having a conversation, because if you don't know that, if you don't know why they're selling it becomes very difficult. Yes, and in that case your agent may just tell you, Oh, go to the highest possible dollar amount you can go. It's fine if that's what you want to do. Many people, especially in the San Francisco Bay Area markets have done just that they're beating others out by offering the highest and best price they can come up with. But they may still do that and understand why they've done that in the first place so it's not just about dollars. That really makes sense. Now the art of a negotiation in knowing the other party is to engage the dialogue. Again, if you have an excellent agent, the agent will know how to do that. That's, that's just so important. I can't really overstate it. Dialogue of this sort requires an immense amount of skill. It also requires information timing and experience. Great negotiators learned this craft, usually one negotiation at a time. And now we'll go to the next important negotiation tenant, which is get to know fast. It's probably contrary to what most of us have heard. Because we fear rejection, we fear hearing no, but for most negotiations, no becomes a starting point in actually negotiating. Now, again, in high priced markets, you have to do some of that before so you don't get the know when you're competing with 13 or 20 other offers. So that's where it becomes a skill to actually assess the know and what we're rejecting would sit and again that goes back to what I said in the previous slide and that's about knowing the other party, knowing their motivations, knowing their values. Now, you may not know all of it, but you will get a very good idea if you know what you, what you're looking for. And this is of course very important to know for yourself. Having said this, again, those tie in with fear and rejection and all the things that we want to stay away from. And, well, that's by the way, one reason why people engage agents because they don't want to deal with rejection. They don't want to deal with having to either be rejected, or, or giving a rejection. In either case, it's a very uncomfortable position. So agents, a good agent will help you do, you know, navigate that terrain. Now, having said that, why are knows so important. Well knows actually give you the other parties bottom line in some ways, and they allow for you to come up with solutions to what the other party might need to solve. They may have a problem, you know, they may need money now versus being able to wait for a year before the money arrives. They may want to get out of a property for emotional reasons. Again, I think I mentioned probates once before I mentioned divorce sales that kind of thing. They're emotional components of these sales that are very important when it comes to negotiating and understanding what the party would would say yes or no to. So once you hear a no, or assess where that would be, then concessions will be possible. So sometimes you don't hear need to hear that know right away. But again, in a high value market which is a sellers market you want to assess what that no would be before hearing it, you don't want to hear it, you want to assess it so you can make concessions that are the right concessions. I hope that makes sense. All right, so this process has of course powerful psychological effects. And then the other part to that is to understand that there are two types of knows that exist and I'm just going to keep it simple.  When engaging such a no, it becomes very difficult to come back to the table with that party, because if, if they backpedal the negotiation is no longer in their favor so whoever issues a no of that kind. It's a very difficult situation to get out of. So instead, my recommendation is, if there is a no involved to say, you know, thank you so much. Currently, my answer is no. But if x, y and z occurs. I might be able to, you know, we might be able to come back to the table. I hope that makes sense. And let's move on to to what's next in our discussion. All right, and that is strategies and tactics in negotiating. They're synergistic. Right. What are strategies, what are tactics and how do they work together. Well, strategies really define long term goals meaning they are a plan or plans for how you and I want to achieve whatever goals we have in mind. Or, they're more of an overview, they're a plan, and they, they help you to show which way you need to move in order to go toward that toward fulfilling the plan. And that's where tactics come in because tactics actually are specific actions, and also specific resources that you can employ to achieve the plan, the goal of that plan. For this reason, they're synergistic and they have to align, which is really important. So here is, here's a little fun about a strategy that could land you in difficult terrain in a morass. By the way, the cartoonist has generously granted permission to use this in this presentation. I'm grateful to to him for that and there's another cartoon and the same applies to that later on. Okay, so hopefully you are getting a little chuckle and from from this cartoon. All right. Now let's go to real estate investing strategies well what are they. Let's find out. The first one, if it comes up is cash flowing. So that's, that's your plan is you want to cash flow. You want to make cash right out of the gate. And sometimes again in high value property markets that's very difficult unless all your money is tied up already in the property. In which case, yeah, you're getting cash flow, but your money is tied up in it. So it's almost so there's no leverage involved in that scenario. So finding something where you get leverage and you get the cash flow meeting the income would be one strategy. Okay. The next one is appreciation, which is what many people go for, because they believe that their property is going to going to appreciate in value and therefore they're going to make a lot of money. Well, that's true for some properties, or I should say for all properties if you hold them long enough. In value, I have, I have a land investment where you know that's been sitting there and it's been going down in value over time, and that particular that there's no cash flow on that land. And it's an appreciation strategy. Or it's an unfortunate occurrence that the value of the land has actually gone down so it's, it has depreciated not appreciated. And when choosing this strategy, just be very careful. I speak from personal experience. Anyway, one of the third one is a combination of cash flow and appreciation. Cash flow and appreciation would be, you know, would be great because if you get cash flow and then the property also appreciates while you hold it for five or seven or 10 years. And then you get that at the end when you sell it. And that's, you know, that's of course an ideal scenario. All right, so some sub strategies would be to wholesale properties to fix and flip properties to to sell or finance properties. Those three options are all about cash flow. Okay, because you're creating cash flow. And then buying and holding. Buying paper or refinancing. You know their cash flow and inside like with the refinance both cash flow and appreciation is involved because your bank will never refinance a property that has that has no appreciation or appreciation potential. You probably already know this if you own a property, and you've done that. All right, so given, given that they're there are other subset strategies which include, I repeat divorce sales bankruptcy sales probates, hud homes, short sales. Areos or foreclosures, and many other variations on the theme. So I'm giving you some of these strategies because they fall in different categories and sub categories, and they all converge in in those categories obviously according to the category you select. Okay, so it needs to match. If you want appreciation, you would probably not ever wholesale anything because you would leaving the appreciation to the next party coming in. All right. Yeah, so this is this is really important. And we only have really time for these particular components that I just mentioned, and some of those strategies I've used some of them have served me quite well. Others, as I just mentioned, were, I call them learning experiences and all learning is expensive, usually. Anyway, the next part to this is when there is another strategy that's called adding value. So adding value is really important because if you think of negotiations as a kind of currency. To which you can bring value, then creativity in adding such value becomes important. So some landlords if they had multi unit buildings add value by putting in dishwashers and units. And what does that do for them. It allows them to charge more rent. Now I'm not talking about rent control. I'm not talking about all these things I know they're different variations on the theme. So it must make sense to you some people have put in parking. And again, they get to charge more money for adding value for their tenants I'm going to have some water one second. All right. So usually when adding value you want to look for something that's cheap for you to give and yet very valuable to the other party so I just mentioned mentioned some of those. Those parts are many, many more only your creativity. And of course, rules and codes, what you can do and can't do can, you know, inform your value a different way or the adding value a different way. So I'll give you one example of what I did for one of my clients in one of the negotiations. We added value by paying, you know, by by giving a higher sales sales price, which is what the seller wanted. But what we got in return so this is also a concession what we got in return was a seller paying the closing costs. It's totally negotiable. And that seller liked us understood that we were likely going to be the highest offering he would ever see. And that it was in his best interest to move this direction. Now, I won't go into all the details where you get the idea, right. So it's, it's, it's a great way. There's another one in the set in San Francisco in the city and County of San Francisco, I represented another buyer for which we, you know, we offered a lower price for this property, but we offset that by paying for the seller city and tax for taxes. The seller was was delighted didn't want to deal with it. And, you know, had had less of a tax basis, all this other stuff that benefited her, and she was happy to go that direction. Hope that makes sense. Alright, so there are many more examples when you get the idea. So adding value is important. Now let's come back to people. What I will say is to create a little romance seems kind of weird that this would be showing up in a presentation on negotiating. Well, it's not all relationships if you work on that relationship if you if you want to understand the other party, you know what they value what's what's important to them, how they view the world that kind of thing, it's going to go a long way. Alright, so the other thing I want to say about this is, I think it was Barbara Corcoran, the real state tycoon who's on Shark Tank or was anyway. She talked about how, or talks about how, if, you know, a seller for instance, accepts the first offer, the buyer usually has remorse, because they're like, they're accepting that, and especially if it's not just a stratospheric price, okay. And this also works the other way. Alright, so rather than in that scenario remorse of on either the buyers or the seller side often set in. And, you know, because accepting that really engenders doubt, and also questions about the other party about what they would have accepted about what you could have done all the goods and woods you can think of. Okay. Now, this applies of course not only to price but also to timing and other terms of the contract. So work on the relationship, walk away with that piece of insight, and hopefully you can apply it. Right. The last thing I'll say about that for sellers especially don't just accept the first offer, come back with a with a counter offer however small it may be. And then see how it develops sometimes you'll find out that it's either completely the right offer for you, or not. So, you know, because until you're in a transaction with someone you never know that other party. You can do all the homework very important. Alright, and number three is focus on solutions. I think that was free. And what I mean by that is cultivate a win win attitude and mindset versus being confrontational with the other party. Okay. Many of us have been taught that negotiations are about going into battle and I'm here to tell you that's not true. It's much more about focusing on solutions, and, and then making things work from there. And the reason for this is think about it. It's probably happened to you if the other party goes into battle, what do you do you follow suit.  So, you know, just be very careful how, how to use how to how to use confrontational items and negotiations focus on solutions instead. And here is a quote I love, because it brings together strategy and tactics. So I'm so the great warrior said and strategist said strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory and tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. I couldn't have said it better. That's why I put it in here. All right, let's go to some tactics. It's a step by step approach compliment your strategy with tactics we're going to go into some tactics however depend on yet another skill. What's that skill. Observation. Again, that comes back to all those things that we've already talked about and especially understanding the value of money, whether to yourself or to the other party. Understanding the motivation understanding what's happening with the property by the way the property will give you clues at times. So the other part to tactics is tactics can shift your plan should not shift. Unless you have a plan that needs reworking. Okay. But if you have a good plan. Then what what needs to happen is your tactics need to be flexible and adjustable in order to meet any changing conditions that might might occur and by the way they will occur. The things change they do change. And that's it that's important to know. By the way, the more experienced you are in negotiating and or the I should say it's sorry I'm going to take that back the more experienced you are in relating to people. And in negotiation from that vantage point, the easier tactics will become. Alright, let's go into a few tactics. And the first one is to prepare, prepare, prepare and prepare. I know this sounds this sounds like I'm beating that horse every time. And it's true. I am without preparation I personally have never met a great negotiator, an excellent negotiator who did not overprepare. And those items that I mentioned, they address them from every possible vantage point did their homework on the property on what what the, you know, what they want what the other party wants all of those things. All right, there is absolutely no shortcut for for preparation. This is so important that I will say this, the people who are excellent at negotiations. Will seem to be doing this effortlessly seem to be doing the negotiation negotiations effortlessly. What's the reason for this. Well, they're completely prepared. They're prepared they can adapt their tactics to the strategies they employ. All right. And, you know, that's it's so important I can't I just cannot over emphasize it. All right, so you obviously need to be competent in what you're doing. You need to be knowledgeable about the market about people about all of that you need to be likeable and trustworthy. If, if you do business with someone you don't trust, it's not going to last very long your negotiations are going to go down the drain. And that's that's really important to know. So communication styles, the values of the other parties the values of the assets you're dealing with the value that you can add to the transaction, all of those supply. One example was for in my career has been for young couple who were looking at a home in Berkeley and the home looked fine it was it was priced competitively in the neighborhood and then we did our homework and we started digging and so forth. And lo and behold it turns out the property was, and this was not apparent from looking at it on even being inside because they have been updated, but the updates were cosmetics that that eventually just camouflage the, the real property needed which was something like $400,000, which my buyers had to a they could have raised it, but they have no interest in that they wanted to have a life, because it's not just the dollars is also time effort, and all the energy that goes into that. So, information is the greatest weapon. I use that in this context so it's the greatest weapon and any negotiation so know your stuff. Know your stuff. Okay, tactic number two seems to be self evident. Right. Most of us know intuitively know that this is what we ought to be doing. It's not as easy as it appears because active listening takes, takes an interest in the other party, I'll just put it like that. And the reason is that listening is an art. Instead of listening but already already contemplating what you're going to say to what the other party just mentioned. So there's a whole different different approach and by the way people know the difference. They know it they may not be able to articulate it. But they are there they know it. I'll just say that so active listening is putting is about putting your agenda on hold while listening to the other party.  I can't, I can't emphasize that I'll just leave it here. You can look up some. I, there were some great quotes about that but one of the thing. Things is, I will quote Mark Twain here who said, and please don't take offense, not my words.  That's, that's what Mark Twain said, I couldn't. Again, this is this is very straightforward and to the point. All right, the next one is. Next tactic. The one question. Always to ask this is my opinion and my experience, I will just tell you, here it is what's that question. Is that the best you can do. Now, you may want to see it in a way that's actually that's friendly, and, and tapes into account, all the other stuff we just talked about. Okay, now, in bidding environments, sometimes that comes up and we are in bidding environments here in the San Francisco Bay Area, of course, why is this question so important so let's address that. Well, for one reason, it is so important, because it puts the other party on notice that you're actually serious may not sound like it but it does. So the other party knows your interest that there is no doubt about it. Okay. And it also puts the other party on notice that you want the best deal you can you can get, and you're going to ask for it. So, again, that comes back to asking for what you want. And, yeah, it's, it's important it also leads to understanding the other parties bottom line, because sometimes guess what when you ask that question. People say, Oh, yes, this is, I, you know, I can only do X, and they will tell you what it is they can do. And that's important. That's important to know that will help you to either stay in the negotiations or walk away from them. We'll tell you a lot of different things about the negotiations. Oh, sorry. One more. All right. Next we have when going to the negotiating table, finding points of agreement first sets a positive tone in the negotiation versus going, Well, I can't do this. Right. So you set a positive you look at what is it that that we're actually in agreement about and go there. It emphasizes the meeting of the minds coming to agreement, which is what negotiations are all about. And it sends an unconscious or subconscious message to the other party that you want to do just that you want to come to agreement. Does that mean the other the disagreed on issue goes away. Well, no, it just means that you're putting the toughest issue last. By the way, everything I've said thus far applies to all business negotiations. It's not just real estate, it applies to everything. Okay. So it's very important. And I encourage you to, to do this. And here's our second cartoon coming, talking about, you know, how easy it is to blame other people for one's own decisions whether that is a bad strategy, or tactics that don't work. So, going to that I hope you're enjoying them again thank you to the cartoonist to the creator. And now a quick recap. Yeah, go ahead. I'll start to interrupt I just wanted to let you know the time it's 154. Oh good. Okay, yeah, we're almost done. So, we're almost done. Here we go. Thank you so much. All right. No, it went to the next slide not good. So, melting strategies and tactics are obviously important. Now we've only gone into a couple of 234 of these. So they're way more. I'm just giving you some strike strategies and tactics that actually work. And, well they all work, but sometimes you want to become fluent if you will, as though you're speaking another language in those particular ones, and then move to the next one, you know, you might find some other tactics that are better for you. And that's fine with me. I'm just going to use some examples and hopefully putting on your creative hats, you will see there's way more to learn here. So, master maybe two or three different tactics, and add them to your arsenal, and then move on to the next one after that. Okay. So real estate investing, your goal may be to find the right type of property, the right investment, the right income. You might want to mitigate risk, you might want to pay fewer taxes, and so on and so forth. So there are a lot of different different things that you may want to do. And when you, when you learn just a few of these, you will gain in confidence and confidence. I think I've said it before, equals gaining momentum. So that's very important, because you got to start somewhere, like all of us. All right, let's recap. The takeaways are, prepare, prepare, prepare. I start with that because that is underlying everything. Second one, no needs and wants your own and the other parties. Engage market knowledge. You may want to do this by engaging some professionals, like myself, or reading some books or whatever it is you need to do to do that. All right. Number four, hone communication skills. Be direct, listen, listen again. Stay calm. Practice patience. All of those things sound so easy, but are so difficult. And focus on relationships and on interest. Let's go to the next slide for the remaining ones. And proposals, why am I putting this here? Well, I'm putting it here because we can talk about all of this and you can say, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then every action. So the only way you're ever going to practice any of this is by making offers and proposals, but actually doing it. And then when you're in a negotiation, use concessions. We talked about that. And then last but not least, thank the other party. Thank the other party. This is so important. As many people forget it, but you may find yourself in a position where several years later, that same party shows up again. And if you thank them and you left that relationship in a good way, they will be completely open to doing business with you. Very important. All right. And here is a quote from Napoleon. Take the time to deliberate. But when the time for action has arrived, stop thinking and go that comes back to the point I made in the previous slide, you need to act by the way, Napoleon Bonaparte was an exquisite strategist. So if you want to learn about strategy, you may want to read about what he, some of the things he did. The library has great materials. Okay, we've come to the end. I will just tell you there's a bonus you will get that I want to tell say great. Very warm thank you to the San Francisco Public Library and remind you that your feedback is absolutely essential and valuable. So please send your feedback in. Thank you to us and we appreciate it. Thank you again have a fantastic time starting to negotiate and gaining confidence. Thank you so much. Back to you. Thank you so much, Gabrielle that was another great presentation. Thank you. I'm going to follow up email to everyone after this afternoon. It'll include that survey link link to the recording bonus content from Gabrielle, which are resources.


Long ago, in the before times of 1971, a soft, squishy man named Ernest Gygax created a small battle simulation game based off of rules created by his local wargaming club, the Lake Geneva Tactical Studies Association, with the intent of creating a medieval battle system similar to one's founded convention created by him and his pals, the Lake Geneva Wargames Convention, which would later be shortened to just GenCon, because people don't have time for that many words anymore. The rules of this battle system were borrowed from a friend of Ernest's named Jeff Perrin and expanded upon to explore the aspects of medieval warfare, and it would go on to become one of the most important works of Ernest's life. Its name was Chainmail. This is the story of a different game entirely, Dungeons & Dragons. Dungeons & Dragons was created in 1974 by one E. Gary Gygax, and a man that he met at another GenCon meeting, Dave Arnson. For those of you sharp-eyed viewers, you may have caught on by now that E. Gary Gygax is, in actuality, Ernest Gygax, the very same man who made Chainmail just three years before. And while Ernie was developing his medieval wargame, he also created a weird one-off supplement that added elements of fantasy literature into an otherwise strictly realistic game. The idea was just to pay homage to the likes of Robert E. Howard and J.R.R. Tolkien, because Ernest was a huge nerd and he had the strange idea of playing games set in a world like those, but he wasn't sure about whether it would go over well with his crowd of historically-minded friends, so he included it in the back of the main rulebook for Chainmail as what were essentially optional, hey, look at this fun thing I made, rules. Despite his expectation that the joke rules wouldn't be taken seriously, the first edition of Chainmail was a huge success, and a large subsection of the game's new audience really resonated with the more jovial tone of the silly fantasy rules. One man in particular, the aforementioned Dave Arnson, got really hooked on the idea that you could play around with individual miniatures and act like you're going through fantasy stories like Dark Shadows. This would leave Davey Arnie to develop a game called Blackmoor, where players would take on the role of medieval characters within the barony of Blackmoor and go on quest for gold, battle monsters, and fight dragons within the dungeons of Castle Blackmoor. Arnson took the fantasy rules from Chainmail and added heavy roleplay elements to what had until that point been a totally accurate battle simulator, creating what we would probably consider today to be just a module, but at the time that was the whole game. Blackmoor was the beginning of what we can recognize as the modern tabletop role-playing genre. Dave brought this new idea to GenCon, and it caught the eye of Ernest, which gave the two of them an idea. What would happen if they took the basic structure of Chainmail's one-on-one combat system, played into the fantasy gimmick, and then changed the focus from simulated scrimches to a long-form campaign that tracked the progress of individual heroes' Fellowship of the Ring style? Thus, after many hours of playtesting and a naming process heavily vetted by Ernest's two-year-old daughter, Dungeons and Dragons was born, filling a niche that was hiding under the tabletop of war gaming and expanding out from that community into the broader community of over-imaginative geeks trying to find escapism in the judgmental world of the mid-seventies. In order to produce the new game, Ernest created tactical studies rules incorporated, along with Ernest's childhood friend, Don K, a man ultimately unimportant to the story, who died two years after the company was founded. But while he was alive, he and Ernest realized that their business skills weren't business-y enough, and more importantly, that they didn't have the money needed to pass out D&D books like they were cheap cigars. Dave Arneson, who also didn't have the money to fund production, wasn't really driving with the whole business of business, so he agreed to take a cut of the royalties from sales for his contribution to the game, and then he sort of just fades into the background from here on out. Ernest and Don decided that, in order to get the gold necessary to pass their loot out, they would have to bring in somebody new, and so they hired a man named Brian Bloom, represented here as Mr. Burns from The Simpsons, because this action will have consequences. But we'll get to that later. For now, Brian had the money, and production for the world's greatest role-playing game could start. The overall presentation of the inaugural copy of the first edition of Dungeons & Dragons was really bad, to say the least. Bloom only gave Ernest $2,000 to produce 1,000 copies of the game, and while 2,000 was more back then than it is now, only 100 of that was put aside for R, so the big E was only shelling out two to three dollars per illustration, and he conscripted anyone that he could find to make him a doodle, up to and including his own wife's sister. So the tradition of treating commissioned artists like shit within the TTRPG community goes all the way back to the source, and the end result was, well, it's good B-roll for my videos. That wasn't the only issue plaguing the double Ds when it first came out, either. Ernest G. Gygax was a wargamer at heart, and his rules stemmed from an understanding that you knew what wargaming was all about. If you were one of those people who saw a table full of metal soldier men and did not know what the hell was going on, D&D wasn't going to make a lot of sense to you at first. Also, the very fact that this was the first game of its kind, besides Blackmore, which wasn't as popular, led to a lot of growing pains outside of the nerd bubble, such as that people weren't used to taking four hours out of their day to sit around and hallucinate about magic men, only to be told that the game wasn't over at the end of that day, and that they would have to routinely come back and play the game over and over again to eventually get the resolution after about 20 total hours of game time. In a world that was just meeting D&D for the first time, that was kind of bonkers. That said, the fact that this was a game where you could do anything was a huge deal. And before you ask, the Satanic Panic wasn't in full swing back then, so Christian Mothers didn't really care about this weird paper game where you could play such exciting classes as Magic User, Elf, or Fighting Man. At least not yet. Eventually, the success of the game would lead to new releases of rules that expanded on the core premise, but were mostly just Ernest going, hey, look at this cool thing I had made, just like how he did with Chainmail.  Ernest had made so many rule clarifications and updates and new options for players that the game was starting to get bloated, and the lack of high-speed internet meant that somebody could hear about a clarification for a rule in a supplement that they didn't even know about, but apparently came out a year ago. Thus, Ernie had two options. Create a uniform collection of D&D rules and present that as the true edition of Dungeons & Dragons, or continue to sell the current basic rules version of the game that could be more easily marketed towards Toys Tour owners and filthy casuals. Instead of choosing one option, he chose both, and thus was created Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. One of the things people ask me a lot is the placement of AD&D within the numerical editions. A lot of people assume that AD&D is considered the second edition because advanced implies that it comes after the normal one, and this really isn't the case. When AD&D came out, it wasn't considered a new edition of D&D as much as it was considered its own game that spawned off of D&D. Both Double D and Advanced D were given their own updates and expansions, and their rules often contradicted one another because they weren't meant to be compatible anymore. One was the casual experience, and one was the rules-heavy nerd jock experience, and they built themselves around their new identities. Both had their place in the nerd ecosystem, but the creation of AD&D did cause a big rift between Ernest and Dave Arneson. See, Dave agreed to take royalties on his co-creation, Dungeons & Dragons, and leave the business of tactical studies rules to Ernest. But now, TSR was selling a new thing that was still sort of called Dungeons & Dragons and still sort of used the rules of Dungeons & Dragons. But, TSR considered it so creatively removed from the original version of the game that they thought Arneson didn't deserve any of the money from it. This spawned a huge legal debate that ended in Dave getting 2.5% of the revenue from AD&D, which was a good amount of money, sure, but the rift between Ernest and Dave never healed. Aside from that legal sniff, the next decade was full of happiness, profit, and good vibes with AD&D's popularity soaring into the sun until the year of 1989, when Ernest's wax wings began to melt. What happens next in the AD&D timeline is undoubtedly the most influential thing to happen to the game, and for all the wrong reasons, but to talk about that, we have to talk business. As you know, AD&D was owned by a company called Tactical Studies Rules Incorporated, or TSR for short. A company created and owned by Ernie, the mostly superfluous Don Kay, and eventually, Brian Bloom, the man who had ultimately financed the game. Bebe Gun may have been a businessman, but it was his father who had the real money, and if I may paraphrase in an effort to condense multiple years of TSR politics and very dense business business into a single paragraph, Brian Bloom's father, Melvin, eventually took partial ownership of the company by way of absorbing Don Kay's shares when he died, then gave his partial ownership to Brian's brother, Kevin Bloom. At this point, Brian and Kevin, combined, owned a larger percentage of the company than Ernest did on his own, and it naturally caused some tension. Ernest was just a guy who wanted to make games and also have very unsettling views on women, and it was actually Don's idea to make a company in the first place, so now Ernest had to juggle his love for games and his newfound status of being what is effectively a figurehead for his own multi-million dollar company. To make matters worse, copycat games and unofficial bootleg expansions created by unlicensed publishers started growing in the shadow of D&D's popularity, and while Ernest saw it as a sign of a growing community and only wanted to slap down literal counterfeit copies, the Bloom brothers held the same opinion of Homebrew as I did two years ago, so they started trying to throw the legal book at people. It wasn't very effective. But despite that, D&D carried on with both its popularity and its ability to bring in the gold pieces to the point where Ernest had a chance to get away from the internal politics and focus on doing creative projects in the form of both D&D movies and cartoons, the latter of which is the greatest shit in the world, don't even at me on that. While Ernest was expanding on the brand, BB and KB were expanding on their brandy, which is to say that they were spending crazy amounts of company money on nonsense that didn't matter, including overstaffing, buying a shitload of company cars, and for some reason, uncovering a 19th century wreckage of a ship from the ocean. I don't know why they did this. No one knows why they did this. And it got to the point where one day, Ernest had to halt production of the D&D movie completely because one of his employees came to him and said, Mr. Gygax, our sales' quarter are better than ever. Why, that's fantastic. Now I can keep working on my movie and- Also, the Bloom brothers just put us $1.5 million in debt. And they're trying to sell the company. Ernest responded to this news with the reasonable response of firing them, to which they responded with the reasonable response of combining their percentage shares in the company into one large Franken share, and then handing that share to the worst person they could think of in a clear act of retaliation, the then general manager of TSR, Lorraine Williams.   So, yeah, big oof. Ernest tried to fight things in legal court by telling the judge, hey, the Bloom brothers totally told me that they would give me their shares if I were ever to fire them for being crushingly stupid, so can I please have my business back? But the judge was not moved by this deception, and seeing the natural one on the wall, Ernest sold his ownership of the company and sailed off into the sunset as a mirage in the greater history of D&D, just like its other creator, Dave Arnson. Thus ends the tale of the men who created Dungeons and Dragons, and begins the tale of the woman who nearly destroyed it. But we'll get to that in part two. For now, you should definitely hit that subscribe button. Ring the bell to stay up to date on all of your davey news, and if this video appeases the algorithm gods, I might make deep dives into historical topics, a new facet of my channel.  But yeah, davey out.