Hello, my name is Seth Knicken. I am the director of the communications forum. And today's event is co-sponsored by the communications forum and the DeFluores Fund for Humor. And for all of you in MIT, if there's anything that you want to do that is funny, we have money to give you, so you should apply for a DeFluores grant. The way communications forums works is there's about an hour of a moderate discussion. And then half an hour or 45 minutes of Q&A. For the Q&A, please go to one of the microphones. We would appreciate it if you would identify yourself just because we're trying to add a transcription of it. And then we don't need to refer to you as random person. But the most important thing is that you go over to the microphone because it's also recorded. And if you don't go to the microphone, we'll not hear you on the recordings. I am going to pass around a clipboard, which is self-explanatory. It says, how did you find out about this communications forum event? If you could let us know, we are trying to figure out how best to reach people. And one way we reach people is through our mailing list. There is a sign-up sheet right there at the head of this desk. So if you have not already signed up, please sign up. We will not spam you. We will only send you information about events we do. And that's a total of 60 years. So there should not be due taxing on your inbox. I'm going to introduce our moderator. And then our moderator is going to have to figure from there. This is Karen Settia, right? That's right. Yes. I'm very, with the last name, like, Mnukin, I'm very anxious about getting my last name right. He's a philosophy professor at MIT who specializes in ethics epistemology and the philosophy of mind. He's the author of five books, including Reasons Without Rationalization and the well-known comedy tone, Knowing Right from Wrong. His newest book is titled Midlife, a Philosophical Guide, and will be published by Princeton University Press later this year. And I'll have Karen introduce it to Arna and Kiko. Thank you. So I'm really, really excited to welcome Apona Nancela to MIT. I will give you a brief bio, but we're going to ask many more questions in the course of the forum. So she's a former writer for Late Night with Seth Meyers and totally biased with W. Kamau Bell. She's appeared on Late Night Network TV. I believe you're the first Indian American to appear on Late Night. Female. Female, OK. On Conan in 2013. Yeah. She was one of Variety's 10 comics to watch in 2016. And your first album came out last year, just putting it out there. It's a terrific comedy album. You can Google it and find it easily. But I wanted to start by asking you about the thing that may be your greatest skill, which is Twitter. So I joined Twitter about six months ago. And I had this plan that I would post something funny like once a week, not like several times a day, like once a week. And in the six months, I believe I've come up with one quasi-joke. So you have many, you have more followers on it? You have like 170,000 followers. Rolling Stone, I think, said you were one of the 25 funniest people on Twitter. And I was trying to figure out which tweets to select to give people a sense. GQ had an article on the 100 best tweets ever, one of which was yours. I once stated an apostrophe, too possessive. So how much time do you spend doing this? This would take me, this would be a full-time job for me. No, I mean, it's kind of a home skill. Like I wouldn't say I immediately just figured it out. But I think I first joined in 2008, which, as we were saying, was maybe an early adopter. But I think I just got on it because a friend was like, oh, there's this new site. You can post short things. I think you'd like it. So I just joined it as a way to procrastinate at my day job. I worked in an office. So I just post little things throughout the day. And I don't think they were really jokes at first. They were just thoughts, comments on my sandwich that day or something. But then the longer I started doing comedy, I noticed people were using it as more of a joke incubator and posting funny little short things, like witticisms and stuff. So then I tried to do it more that way. And then I think I just realized I liked sort of trying to make a thought as concise as possible and try to draw out what was the funniest about it. So I think then it just became more of a playground for me. So how much of your ideas, how many of your ideas are you trying out on Twitter for later use in stand-up? Are there two different styles? Because the 140 character limit is very different from having seven minutes to write something. Yeah, I mean, it definitely is its own medium. It's like the written, comedy written is very different from comedy performed. So I think there's some stuff that won't necessarily translate, like some internet humor. It's like even like the use of where you place a capital or a comma can make the joke. So that obviously wouldn't work on stage. But I think if there's an idea I like that I'm like, oh, this is a short joke, but maybe I could combine a couple different jokes I have on this idea and make it into a bigger bit, then I'll do that. But I think then I have to be disciplined about going back through my tweets and sort of picking out the ones that are good. And that's not always fun. And are you typing and deleting? How much correcting is going on before you? I used to draft more. I used to sometimes stockpile them and be like, if I have a rough day, these will be ready or whatever. But then that sort of backfired on me because I had like 100 sitting in there. And some of them were just like two words to remind me of something like red jacket or something. And then there was like a post-all button at one point. I think they got rid of it. But it accidentally, I don't know how it happened, but my phone was in my bag and somehow the button got pushed. And then I just started getting messages from people like, are you OK? And I was like, I'm having a meltdown. And so how similar is that writing process to the writing process for stand-up? Do you sit and write out ideas for stand-up bits? Or is it just an idea and then you try it out on stage? Sort of a combination. I definitely come to stand up from a more writerly angle. So I will need sort of an idea of what a bit is going to be before I go on stage. Either just like the simple arc of the joke of like, what is funny about this or what was unusual about this thing that happened to me. And then I'll go try it on stage. But then it's like, once you've tried it, it's sort of a continual workshopping of seeing how the audience responded, seeing if there's like parts that could be made clear or funnier or you need a funnier example. So then it becomes sort of almost like a dialogue between how the live performance was received and then how it evolves when you're writing. I mean, do you take notes after performing on how things went? Or do you record yourself? Or how does that work? I record my sets. And I think a lot of comedians do that. But the hard part is like going and actually listening to them. Like I have so many of them. And you get over like the uncomfortability of listening yourself because I don't really like hearing myself talk. But you do sort of get an idea of like, oh, that worked there. But it still could be made a little clear or something. But a lot of it's just more natural. Like you find that stuff the more you perform a joke. Like you'll find a place where you're like, oh, that seems like I don't need to describe what that is for so long. Or like I could skip this line. Like I don't need it. So I think a lot of that editing is just more in the moment you discover it. Yeah. And do you have a sense of your hit rate? Like how much stuff when you're doing this gets cut in the course of performance? Like how different when you're doing stand-up is what we would see from month to month based on just having tried stuff out and decided and through the editing process? I think it takes longer than people think it does. A lot of times if you're working on even like 10 new minutes or something, it could be like six months later and you still can't figure out one bit or something. And then it's like maybe in a year or something you'll be really happy with it. But it also differs depending on the joke. Some people can just keep honing away at like a two minute bit for like years.  I'm going to move on to something else. Yeah. So it kind of also depends on the performer. Has your writing process changed since? I mean, when did you start doing stand-up? I started now. I started in 2006 doing it regularly. So I would say it was 11 years, a little past 11 years. So I think you do you get a little bit more discerning about what you write. I feel like when I started I was very precious about everything. And if a joke didn't work, I would take it very personally. But now it's kind of like, it's like I'll figure it out or this one might just need a time out for a while and then come back to it. Like it's weird. The some stuff you'll bring back after a few years and you'll finally have figured out why it wasn't working. So 2006 when you started, were you in college then? Or you already had left college and you were working in the office job where you were procrastinating with Twitter? I was just out of college. So I was just learning the ways of the world of work and not doing your work. I see.  I tried it for the first time in college. I think I was home during the summer. And a couple of friends and I would go to this open mic near where we lived just as a free kind of entertainment. And then two of us were interested in comedy and we kind of saw that not everyone who went up was at a professional level. So we were like, we should both try it. So we both made a pact to try it before the summer was up. And I waited until like the last week before I went back to school. And I think it was my birthday the first time I went up and I definitely made sure to mention that. So people would be nicer. But yeah. And then it went better than I expected. But then I was still too scared to do it for a couple of years. And then once I got out of school, I was like, if you really want to do this, you should make an honest effort. So what was the first time after that that you did it? Like when you went into a club in, were you in DC at this point? Yeah. And did you went to an open mic? Yeah, I went to an open mic at a coffee shop. So a little more casual. And you just sign up. And then you have your few minutes. You go up and do whatever you want with them. How did it go? Do you remember the first times you were doing this in DC? Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously it's very scary, but it's also very nice when you get those laughs and that response. I think it's like hard to compare that to any other feeling. Like it's a good feeling. And you feel like you're connecting with people. But it is, I think especially when you're starting, you have a little bit less idea of like your own stage presence and what you want to do on stage. So I think it's also very unpredictable. I mean, did you have at that point a kind of idea of what your persona was going to be? Or was it just at that point that you wanted to be funny? Was there a kind of evolution in the sort of character of the comedy you were doing? Well, it's interesting because I feel like even early on, people would say, oh, you have a really unique point of view. Like how did you create that?  Like I don't think of it as a point of view. I'm just like, oh, this is just how I see things. So I think that, in essence, helped me because I wasn't really trying to be something. I was just like being like, this is stuff I find funny, so I'm just going to do it that way. Whereas I feel like oftentimes, a lot of when people start, they might be trying to emulate someone who really inspired them or made them want to do comedy. So they might have like a little bit of those stylistic choices when they're first starting. But I feel like I didn't have a big foundation of what comedy was when I started.  Like someone who's never seen stand up before. And that was a compliment? But they meant it as a compliment. Yeah, yeah. OK, good. Yeah. So how did you get the idea of doing it? So where did the ambition come from if you weren't sort of a comedy nerd at that point in college? Yeah, I mean, this was like before YouTube and stuff. So I don't think that that idea that it's like anyone can put their stuff online and be famous or something like that. Idea wasn't as much in the ethos yet. So I think it was for me just like, oh, let me just try another thing. And then if I don't hate this thing, I'll just keep doing it. Because I feel like college for me was like a little bit of a struggle in figuring out what I wanted to do. And even when I graduated, I still wasn't sure that I had found a calling or anything. So comedy, at least then for me, was at least a coping mechanism to be like, oh, well, at least this is something you enjoy that you can do. And so it didn't come out of sort of acting or other kind of state or improv or no, you wouldn't really stand up was the thing? Yeah, I remember my college had an improv group, but I was too scared to try out for it. But I think that maybe I did try out for it once, or I went to like, they were like, if you're thinking about trying out, we have this workshop just to see if you might be interested. And even that, I was terrified to go. But yeah, no, I think I just was like, I don't know if I can. And then it is a weird paradox sometimes, because I am uncomfortable in group situations. And then people are like, why do you do comedy? Yeah, I mean, so a thing that we will get to and probably talk about a greater length is the way in which you do comedy. You talk about depression and anxiety instead of, was that something you were doing from the very beginning, or was that something that you sort of worked up to? Yeah, I definitely worked up to. It wasn't there right away. And it's funny because I actually started doing comedy sort of as a way, like I had recently been diagnosed with depression, and I was just sort of on medication for the first time. And so I think that was what made me try it at all, because I guess when, at least in my case, when I went on medication, it was like kind of like someone who had an eye prescription but didn't know, and then put on glasses and could just see everything more clearly. The world just seemed so much more colorful. It went up a notch. So I was just trying all these things. And I was like, everything's great. And so I think that's what actually gave me the boost to do comedy at that time. So this was in college also that you first, we were diagnosed with? Yes, yes. And so what was that process like? You said the college was hard in some ways, figuring out what to do. And was that partly that you were coming to terms with depression then? I think so, yeah. But I think I didn't have a name for it. And I actually took time off of school and then was diagnosed with it. And then went back to school sort of having this new knowledge and then was able to sort of get more out of the experience. But it's like I didn't quite have the words for it before. And was it was that was that when you resistant to that or finding it was it scary or was it immediately sort of light bulb? OK, and now it makes sense. It was actually kind of nice because it's, I guess the weight is lifted up. Before I just thought I was like, oh, everyone sees the world like this and everyone else is just better at dealing with it than I am. But then afterwards I was like, oh, no, everyone else has been having a great time. And that made you feel better in a certain way. But yeah, but then it's like meds level out.  But it was that initial boost of like, oh, not everything has to be like a slog all the time. And you were a psychology major in college. Was that out of interest in the human mind? Or was it just that that happened to be the subject that interested you? Yeah, I think it was kind of a combination of the two. It was one of the only subjects that I found interesting after I had taken a few classes in it. Like a few of them I was like, oh, maybe I should be a lawyer. And then I went to like a couple law courses. And I was just like, no, this is not what I thought it was at all. So psychology was the one that was sort of consistent in that. I was always enjoyed going to those classes. And I think the human mind, as any kind of creative or writer, it's endlessly fascinating in certain ways. So I think that felt applicable to really anything I would do later in life. Yeah. And so I'm still putting off the question of asking you about how depression has played into your comedy. But I also want to ask you more about the other direction. Like has being open about depression in comedy changed your depression or changed your relationship to your own emotional life? Has it made it harder, easier? Has it changed it? It's definitely made it interesting, because I think when you put yourself out there in that kind of vulnerable way, you sort of open the doors for people to approach you about like, oh, I really related to this thing you said about mental health. Or like I struggle with anxiety in very similar ways. And I like how you expressed it. So I think it does make people feel less guarded about talking about it with you, which I don't mind. I find that very humbling that to be able to connect with people in that way. But in terms of does it help ease the pain? I wouldn't say no. Like I couldn't go off my medication to be like, I'll read a couple more depression jokes and go back up there. But it is nice in that like I first started writing about it as a way to sort of get out of a rut. Like I was having depression issues and I wasn't really able to create anything. And I was like, well, maybe just write about the depression, even if it doesn't fix it, at least gives you like something to do. So that was sort of what initially made me start talking about it. And so two sides. One is that it being open about it. The other is that stand up is incredibly revealing and you're on stage and it's just you. And I imagine it's terrifying. So I mean, how did depression, how did you get over the anxiety of just being on stage? It sounds like you did it in sort of coffee shops and other places. But that must have been a sort of ongoing challenge. Yeah.  I also have a lot of anxiety. So I think I still get nervous before performances. And I think in a way that people have been doing it as long as a lot of people are past that phase I'm in now. But I still get very like my thoughts get scattered and I get shaky and stuff before I perform. But I think you learn to cope with it just in your own ways. Like I've been trying meditation and exercise helps and just finding ways around it. Sometimes it is like I have that conversation before I go on stage where it's like, why do you do this again? And then afterwards you're like, oh, yeah, I feel that's why I do it. But yeah, it's strange because it can feel counterintuitive that something you love to do like going up until you're actually doing it can be like a painful process. Yeah.  And do you remember the time when you first sort of outed yourself and spoke about it explicitly on stage? Was that? Yeah, it wasn't that long ago. I guess maybe now like two years ago. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. So not too long ago. But yeah, it's interesting because I think I tried it very tentatively just being like, oh, I'm going to try to talk about this. But a lot of the comedians I look up to have been very open. Like Maria Bamford is one of my huge influences. And she's very open about all of her struggles. And pretty much everything is on the table. So another thing, when I started talking about it, I was almost like, I don't think I have anything to add to the conversation. I feel like people are already doing it really well. So I think that also made me hesitant to talk about it. But when I first tried it, I think I was surprised at the response. Yeah, because I, yeah. Was that the response in terms of how well the material went? Or was it the response afterwards in terms of people? Just in terms of how it went, because I was like, I don't know if people will relate to this if they don't necessarily experience it themselves. And sometimes the jokes won't work. But more people respond than I expected would. Yeah.  Because I was thinking, on just putting it out there, you mentioned it early on. But briefly, and then there's a bit later on where you really talk about it. So there's a sense that it's been paced. And is that something you sort of are thinking about in terms of audience? And because some people must be relating deeply to the parts where you talk about depression and feeling a kind of relief that this is being spoken about explicitly. And others, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, usually when I'm doing a longer set, you can feel out if the audience is responsive to it or not. So in that way, you're right. There'll be like a one line or something where I'll be like, oh, I'll see how that goes. And then if they responded well, then I'll do the longer bit about it. But otherwise, it's like, oh, we'll skirt that area this time. So when you're doing a set, you have sort of a multiple choice kind of thing. So you have a bunch of different ways to go depending on how the audience goes. So is that something you did from the beginning, or does that depend on, is that something you kind of learned as you went on along? I think you learn it with experience. Because I think when you start, you're sort of like, OK, this is what I'm going to do when I'm up there.  But then it's like, the longer you do it, you kind of learn that it's like, some audiences are going to be on board with you right away. Some of them are going to warm up to you eventually. And some of them are just not going to like you. I mean, do you do a lot of crowd work? Because I've seen you a couple of times that I'm not. No, I don't necessarily. I might use it to get into a topic or something of how many people have done this or something. But I'm not a big like, let's figure you out. Yeah. So remember, the last time I saw you came and did a thing with Eugene Merman in Boston, which was not long ago, a month or two at the Paradise Rock Club. And there was a thing that was really cool, which is you both came out at the start and did a kind of, I don't know, what is that? What do we call that together? Just like banter? Yeah. Was that something you planned? How did the idea for that come up? Well, he actually said before the show, he was like, oh, so I can just intro you after I intro the show. Or if you want, I can just bring you up and we can talk for a few minutes. And then you can start your set and I'll leave. And no one had ever said, like, that's how they wanted to bring me up.  So I was kind of appreciated that he wanted to do it in a more casual way. Yeah, it was really cool. It was cool. Actually, the other thing in that set, which is sort of possible segue here that I thought was interesting was there was a bit where you were connecting anxiety and depression with politics. But I'm going to use a bit of the joke is about this is what we've been training for. Oh, yeah. People with anxiety and depression. And has there been a kind of swerve towards more political material? I've been trying to be like address what's happening in the world. And I haven't been overtly political in the past. But I guess right now, for me at least, it feels disingenuous to not talk about what's going on and not even necessarily that that will fix anything, but just it feels weird to get on stage and just be like, I saw this bird do this funny thing on the street and then just not at all address the fact that the world is in a very strange place right now. So I've been trying to talk about it. But again, a lot of it is grounded in sort of my personal experience. Like I'm trying to talk about being more politically active for the first time or like how reading the news makes me feel. So it still comes from a sort of personal place to me. And it's harder to, for me, it's harder to sort of like judge the actions of people without sort of grounding it in like, but this is just how I feel. Yeah. So you said you weren't thinking it would make a difference exactly. So do you have a kind of general picture of what's going on or what the function is of addressing difficult topics in comedy? So your depression is one, the current political situation might be another. They're both things that you might have the aspiration to really make a difference or wake people up. Or, and that's, there are some political comedians who's like W. Camarbelle or Harry Conroy who seem really to be partly have the mission of getting people to think about politics in a way that they wouldn't if they didn't get it through the medium of comedy. So do you have a picture of what, either in the case of depression or politics, what effect do you want your comedy to have? Or is that not how you're thinking of it? Well, I think it's again, similar to what I said before where it's like, there are comedians who do that and they do it really well. So I'm like, I don't want to sort of step on their coattails. Like I'm gonna sort of do my version of what I think that is, but maybe not cover exactly the same ground. So I think for me, it's more like, oh, this is my particular experience and I hope people relate to it.  And it's like, hopefully, like my experience speaks to someone else's that that might not feel represented in a broad way in pop culture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but it's interesting what you say about being political, cause in a way, right, you're just putting it out there isn't overtly political in the sense of addressing current political events, but there's stuff about race and gender is pretty central to some of the bits. Yeah. Yeah. So there's sort of political issues in that sense that are being addressed. I mean, has that, so how, has it been, I mean, do you have a sort of take on how much the experience of being Indian-American trying to get into comedy is different or harder or more complicated than it would be for? I mean, I think I was lucky cause when I started it was like, you know, Aziz Ansari was just getting very popular and Mindy Kaling was writing for the office. So I think at least that hurdle of being like, well, there aren't a lot of people like you in comedy, like they had sort of already opened those gates themselves. So at least people weren't like surprised that I was doing comedy at all. But I think the stranger thing for people was that people, you know, who are like South Asian or whatever your background is, like if talking about that isn't the focus of your material, I think that's more what threw them for a curve ball. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so do you think this is something that has changed even in the last few years? I think you may- I think so. The first Conan appearance, did you open with a joke about- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.   They like have an idea of what you are to them. And so that was a way to sort of put that idea out in the air before diving into what I actually wanted to talk about. But now I feel like I'm lucky in that I have at least enough of people in New York and LA who know who I am or I don't have to start in that way. But you know, sometimes if I go on the road and it's like I might be a place I've never played before, it's helpful. But yeah, for the most part, I feel like I've shied away from that now. Yeah.  And so it means you can't, it changes how much time you can take for a joke to develop or what kind of thing to do. Yeah, I mean, I think you, again, it's like if you're doing a longer set you sort of test stuff out that might be like the hint of a topic and then if it feels like they respond to it you might have a longer bit or something that you might try around that. But I think a lot of that is also just experience. Like when you start, you kind of panic if you don't get that like laugh right away. But I think once you've done enough sets you realize like, oh, they might just take a little work or like I'm gonna try to go this way. Like it's not that immediate. Like, oh my God, this isn't going well feeling. Yeah. And do you have, so I think actually, I'm gonna ask you about this again about this sort of persona thing. Because I think what you described, your sort of stage persona is not a sort of consciously planned persona. But nevertheless, you have a kind of, what's the, your sense of the relationship between the personality you project when you're doing stand up and you? Or do you feel like, are you in a position to comment on that? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely, it's not, it's definitely a version of myself. I think it's a little bit heightened for the stage and exaggerated. But I definitely don't feel like I'm like putting on a character or like a persona when I'm going on stage. I'm just like, oh, this is like the performer part of my personality or it's just like one way I have a being just like the way we're different around different groups of people in our lives. Like that's like my stage, me. And yeah, but I don't, I don't think of it as like, oh, now I have to switch into this. I see, so it doesn't feel like acting. It doesn't, it doesn't feel like you're so. Not really. You're getting into, because I think even teaching even, I feel like I, which is the closest I can get. I feel like teaching is, teaching is good because the standard, if you, everyone's expectations are so terrible. You can make the worst joke and people are like desperately grateful. So that's my, the closest analogy I have to stand up is teaching. And I feel like even teaching, I feel like I am definitely, there's some, it's not exactly acting, but I'm sort of playing a teacher when I'm teaching. No, I think that, I think often when we public speak, people are like, oh, I'm gonna sort of be this version of myself that's like a little bit, you know, more put together or more in control or like I have a more of a vision of what I wanna be and like when you're offstage, you might be looser and more relaxed. But, but you know, some people's stage personas are very loose and like freewheeling. So, but the weird thing is when you realize that's like carefully calculated. Right, yeah, yeah. I mean, do you, I mean to do, so I think maybe this doesn't come in that, in terms of thinking about a persona, do you have a kind of, do you have a picture of where you want your comedy to go? Like what in over the next five years you kind of want to explore in comedy and sort of how to get there from here? Is that something you think about or is the horizon not like that? I've always been someone who's bad at making goals at all, let alone long-term goals. So I think it's like even when you said that I like got anxious. Sorry, I figured you out, sorry. No, no, no. I was like, what, where do I wanna go? I don't know, I don't know. I don't know, but, but yeah, I think like I was saying where it's like you're developing a bit and the end product might not look anything like you expected it to. Sometimes it's hard to predict what exactly, like if I'm working on a new hour of comedy, like what exactly it's gonna look like. Like I am sort of in that boat now of trying to be like, well what is important to me to talk about right now in my life and like what are the themes I'm interested in exploring. So I think a lot of comedy because the way it connects to people is the relatability factor. A lot of it is sort of about where that comedian is in their life in terms of their relationships or what they're interested in. So a lot of it to me just feels like a snapshot of that person's life during that time. Yeah. And so when you're working, do you watch other comedians when you're thinking about material? Like is it sort of a, do you study comedy when you're thinking about how to write your own material? I'll what, I mean I feel like I take in a lot of comedy just by virtue of being at shows like pretty much every night. So I feel like it filters in, but like a lot of comedians actually can't watch that much comedy at least not like you'll watch a few minutes of someone and you'll be like, okay, I get the gist and leave. But I think it's because it is your work that it's like you can only take in so much before you just feel like it becomes noise. Like I also think some people don't because they're afraid they might unconsciously like lift something they saw someone else do. But for me, I think it's just over saturation. And like I know a lot of comedians who will watch like people's specials and stuff and be very current on that. And I like, I can't remember the last special I watched. And I feel like when I'm not doing comedy, all the art I want to consume is like anything but comedy like horrible murder, docu-series and stuff. Yeah. But do you hang out with, I mean, so do you hang out with comedians? Cause I know you do, you do, you worked with other comedians on with Jacqueline Novak on the woman group and you have a thing with Joe Firestone. And so you do collaborative comedy as well as doing solo standup. So do you try out material on other comedians? Is that part of the process of working Yeah, I think, like I have people I enjoy writing with just in terms of we're both working on our own sets, but I know they understand my sensibility and I know I can like bounce ideas off of them without feeling like they're not following what I'm saying. But in terms of, and I feel like most of my social circle is now comedy people or comedians just by virtue of the fact that our schedules are so specific that I think the only people who are free like when you're free are other comedians. So yeah, I think there is that comfort zone of like, oh, this person immediately understands my base of experience and this weird thing that I do. So they're the easiest person to talk to about either a joke or something that happened at a show whereas like, you know, if you're talking to someone who might not do live performance all the time, it's harder to explain like, oh, there was like a weird audience member and then they did this and like a stand-up will like understand right away. They'll already know where you're going with it. Yeah. So is it, I mean, is it in general a supportive community? Do you have a sense of a stand-up community that, you know, is that something that you get sort of emotional sustenance from? Yeah, I think they're definitely, I mean, I know not every scene is like that. Like there are more competitive environments, but I feel lucky in that like the groups I've found in New York and LA they're very supportive and just like, I think people realize the entertainment industry is already so unforgiving as it is that it's like you don't need your peers to be a further like, like just monstrous in their judgment of you. So people are like, I think a little bit more forgiving and like understanding of each other like as peers. So, I mean, you would think that sort of envy and competitiveness must be hard to keep in check. I think it's still there. And definitely, you know, you'll have, there will be like villains of the scene or whatever.  Like there are always people you're not gonna care for, but I think it, the longer you're in it, you just see so many people come and go that you sort of gravitate towards the ones who like make you feel good and like who seem to understand, like you both understand each other. So I think it also sort of is a filter process that happens organically. So has this, I mean, has this led you to, do you have a view about the, a take on the cliche about depressed comedians? So that- Oh. That we're all- That we're all depressed? Well, yeah, that you know, are you Paliachi? That's the question. Oh, right. The sense that your anecdotal experience of comedians sort of dealing with depression or sort of somehow that it's symbiotic with comedy or is that, is there any truth to that?  I think a lot of creative people maybe struggle with those issues because the mindset of a depressive is very similar to the mindset of a standup in that you're sort of hyper-observant of everything and then you're sort of like questioning why it is. Like it's almost like you're automatically existential when you're a comedian because you can't take anything at face value. So, and depression is like the same mindset but just on the other end of the spectrum. So I think it's a natural pairing but I wouldn't say you need one to have the other one. Yeah. But I mean, is it, does it feel to you like when you, that as well as doing comedy about depression that's sort of part of your life and so it's part of the subject matter that it is just sort of part of the source of your sort of comedic sensibility in general? Yeah, I think in terms of like, I think most of my stuff has an existential undertone. So I think that very much comes from sort of constantly questioning like why we're all here and like what is it all mean? And so I think that sort of filters through even bits about very trivial things. Yeah, no, that makes sense. So, one of the questions I was gonna ask was sort of about other, is there a sort of, sounds like you have friends or comedians as a kind of community other, is it sort of mentory or nurturing? Are there other comedians, is that something you found when you were breaking in, when you were just doing open mic nights or whatever in DC, that other comedians would be, would sort of give you advice or help you or that you were now able to do that for? Yeah, I mean sometimes I think it's, can be a little misguided. Like sometimes when I started in DC, like sometimes older comics will be like, oh, like you should do this differently.  And it's like when you're new, you're kind of very impressionable. So you're like, okay, I'm gonna do take those notes and do them. But then the longer I did it, I was like, oh, there aren't really like hard and fast rules. Like you can be a better performer, but there's also nothing wrong with like doing things sort of your own way or like taking your own path. Like that feels like open, like an open game now where people are finding their, you know, groups of people respond to them in very different ways than they used to. So I don't think there's as clear like this is what you need to do to get to this. But I do feel like I was lucky in that when I started I got to open for a lot of people I look up to like Eugene Merman and like Maria Bamford and Paul of Tompkins. And they've all like all the experience I had opening for them was like very positive. And they were all very encouraging, which I think was very like a huge thing in me sort of being okay with like not maybe being like all the other comedians. Yeah. So what was the narrative there of the point at which you decided I'm going to try and make a career of this? Or like you would say you were working and you had an office job at some point and then at some point you quit it and went full-time? Yeah, I think, well I started in DC and there's like a good scene there. There's like, I think it's similar to Boston in that you can get up pretty much any night of the week, but maybe you're not as much under the eye of like the industry. So I think a lot of people that I started with, they were all sort of moving to New York and LA so it felt like it was time to move. And I also felt like I had sort of hit the ceiling in DC in terms of like what I could do opportunity-wise and I was feeling like creatively stagnant. So I think it was like, well if nothing else you have to move just to like get recharged and be like excited about comedy again. So I think I did move out there with the idea of making a real go of it, but also just for a change of scenery too, yeah. And you moved there and comedy was your soul thing? Is that right? That was the- Yeah, well I was temping for a long time and I also, you know, you usually pick New York or LA and I was dating a comic at the time and he wanted to go to LA like a hundred percent and I was kind of split and I was like, oh, I'll just follow him, you know? Which is not the most empowering story, but. I see, so I gotta try and ask this question without playing into stereotypes. So my, I think both of your parents are doctors. My father is a doctor. When I told him I was gonna do philosophy in college there was some questions about my career choice. And did that happen? I mean, so were your parents baffled by what you were doing or were they supportive or resistant when you said I'm gonna go to LA and now try to make a career? Yeah, I mean, I think they were baffled at first by what exactly it is I was doing but then they came to a lot of shows early on so at least they had an idea of what comedy is, like improv and stand up and then they did keep pushing the idea of grad school like very hard the whole time where they were like, okay, this is great but grad school and I was like, I don't even, what would I go to grad school for? And they were like, it doesn't matter. Just grad school, just grad school, yeah, yeah. So I think that they were just used to like that's how you do it because that was the model they were given. So I like I understood where it was coming from but they were never like, oh, don't do comedy or don't, I think they were just concerned about the security element. And I think they thought LA was like very far away which it is but yeah, they were hesitant but they were never like completely discouraging. Did they like your stand up to begin with? So had they been to comedy before? Was yours like, was yours the first stand up they saw and they were like, this is what it is? I think I took them to a show once when I was in college of this comedian I had seen on TV and I think because they were on TV they had a very like less, I should say, risque set and then when I took them he was like so filthy and I was like, oh, this is a nightmare but yeah, besides that they hadn't seen much stand up and so I think at first they just liked me because I was less vulgar than the other comedians but I think they also just enjoy seeing other people watching me. Like my mom will often just give me reviews of like other people in the audience. Everyone else seemed to be having a great time. And then one time she was like, I almost understand all of your jokes and my dad was like, I'm not even close. But they still come, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, no, they're very sweet. That's really good, that's really good. So I have a couple more things to ask but I was gonna say in a minute or two I'm gonna open things up to questions to the audience but I wanna give people, there's always the awkward silence so I'm gonna give you the next two or three minutes to think of questions while I'm gonna ask you one more question and then you can respond with awkward silence. The question is, the question is are there things that, so probably a lot of people ask you about depression and comedy because that is a thing that you're notable for. Are there questions that people don't ask you that you wish you would be asked? I feel like people are generally pretty thorough. Like a lot of times I get asked, well, you get asked about your particular experience or how you started or any challenges you faced so I don't know, I guess maybe something maybe not as related to comedy, like what are you reading? What do you do when you're not being funny or, yeah. Like stuff I think more outside the realm of just being a person but it's like then why would they interview you if you're just a random person? I don't know. So what are you reading? Ugh, I set myself up for that one. Yeah, there was no, it was inevitable, yeah. I'm actually reading a book on philosophy but I have not, I've gotten very far. I sympathize, yeah. Yeah, no, I think because I thought it would be more about philosophy itself but it's more about the history of The Existentialist. Is this the Existentialist Cafe, the cerebral book? Yes, yes. But I'm enjoying it, it's taking me longer than I thought it would. It's fun, I think, I don't know if you, her previous book, The One on Montaigne is really, really great. It's about Montaigne and how to live and I thought that was a really great sort of combination of biography and philosophy. Great, so I, there's a book recommendation, two book recommendations. So you've had two minutes to think questions. I think probably what people should do is if you have a question, just come to one of the mics and feel free to come, I can see what we're about to do it but even though I said to do it, you're not doing it. No, you can do it, come to one of the mics and then if you feel free to, I will indicate which question people should ask and then you can go ahead. Me, my name's Rom. I first heard of you because I, first of all, I live in D.C., I go to school there and I wanted to know, I first heard of you because I heard of Jacqueline Novak and I'm a huge fan of her and also, so I read her book and I really identified with it a lot and I led me to hearing your comedy but I wanted to know if, for people who live in D.C. and are interested in comedy and writing like me, what do you recommend that I would do over the summer because it looks like I didn't get that Conan internship. Well, they're lost. I would say the D.C. scene right now is really good so if you're interested in stand-up, definitely there's like good open mics and shows every night of the week. I'm not sure if there's like a definitive resource right now. There used to be a site that listed like all the open mics and shows for D.C. but definitely go out and watch shows even if you might not wanna perform on them. The Washington Improv Theater has a lot of great long-form improv and so I think now they offer some classes on writing like sketch writing and late night show submissions so I think any of those things would be good. Okay, excellent. And I have just one more question about your anxiety and stuff like that. How did you know that you were funny and also that you get the confidence to like that people wanted to hear what you had to say and that like you could make a career out of it because that I can't imagine me people wanting to hear what I have to say and stuff. Oh no, yeah, I mean there is, I think for every performer there's like a raging ego monster inside all of us but I think for me it was kind of strange because I was very shy and introverted growing up and I think to know you're funny you need to have that audience feedback so I actually discovered it in kind of a weird way. I ran across country and track in high school and we would go for long runs and I would sort of make just like funny comments on things that they would laugh at and then I was like, oh maybe I could do this in a different environment but yeah, I think I don't know if that's helpful at all. I'm like join a girls cross country team. I, but no I think it is, you know, maybe if you're interested in writing, like writing some short pieces and sending them to friends who's opinion you value and seeing what that feedback is. It's usually best to start with your peers because I know a lot of comedians will get like emails from people asking for advice or like help but it's like very hard to do that just for someone you don't know. If you're just starting, the most important thing is really just to try it and try lots of different things and see what you gravitate towards and also sometimes when you take classes you'll find people you really enjoy working with and that's another way to like form those groups in that community. Okay, thank you. Of course. Do you wanna go ahead? Thank you.  I've seen you on stuff like the bait wars and hosting stuff at the UCB and working on your own standup material so just wondering what you would say has been your like most fun comedic experience in like the last year or so. It's hard for me to pick.  We just sort of messed around and it was very loose script and also I would say that was the most fun and then the most like sort of crazy was Tignataro is someone I've looked up to a long time and she's been nice enough to let me open for her a bunch and she recently played Carnegie Hall last fall and I got to open for her. So that was pretty crazy. Yeah. Say who you are before you, just for the transcripts that we can. I'm Rahul, I'm the South Asian stereotype of finishing a PhD here and we're going to grad school and things like that. But so I just sort of randomly came across you as a retweet on Twitter or something and then I started following you and I really enjoyed your tweets because part of it was I liked that it wasn't very South Asian focus it was very general, it was about all sorts of issues, things like that and I really enjoyed that. And one thing I was curious was, as you were mentioning about doing comedy on Twitter or doing one-liners is very different than doing a stand-up set. And you get this feedback in life that, oh, you're funny, you do one-liners, right? How do you go from that to actually thinking that you can do a stand-up, like telling a story or doing that kind of comedy set? Well, I think some stand-ups do mainly trade in short jokes like they do mainly one-liners. So I think that's still an option but I think performing live for people is just such a different medium than writing jokes and getting feedback that way. So I think really the only way to know is to try it. And I know now at least a lot of clubs and stuff have classes where you can sort of dip your toe in the water and at least workshop those first three or four minutes in a more supportive environment because open mics can be anywhere from very supportive to horrible and this is just like a existential bus station where we're all waiting for something good to happen. So I think, you know, best to start off in a more supportive environment but really it is just getting on stage like there's nothing that really simulates that better than just trying it, yeah. Thank you. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna speak into the mic. That's okay. It's too tall for me because it's too cute. Dad, who is Curensedia, we were... Hi. Oh, hello. Hi. We were listening to your album a couple nights ago and you were really enjoying it and I wanted to ask you about a few things. Sure. That you brought up.  And there was that time in it where like everybody was going around and saying for each person what actor would most represent them. Right.  The most horrible one probably science. Yeah. What's your opinion on those neutral or not probably not neutral, neutral but just like this is horrible, but I don't really want it to be like super active or is it like I'm going to be active to stand up against these kind of things? Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I feel like when you're in entertainment, there are a lot of stuff like that happens where it's horrible and it makes you feel bad, but then a lot of good stuff happens too. And I think you have to learn to sort of balance out the good with the bad.  So sometimes it is easier to just keep your eyes on your paper and be like, these people might not get me, but I'm just gonna keep doing this thing that this person really likes. So I think it is a lot of just sort of sticking to your inner gut. Another one of your tracks that I really liked. You were kind of talking about unfair women's fashion standards. Mm-hmm. Like you were talking about how a lot of women are pressured into wearing like skimpy outfits and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And you talked about how you don't like that kind of thing. Like I liked when you brought up the three piece. Okay. That was a funny part. And I was just wondering, what's your opinion on that? Is it very strong? Is it like? It's kind of, I think that, especially stuff around my experience in being a woman, a lot of it is just my own body insecurity and shyness around other people. So I definitely have my opinions on what I think is acceptable, but a lot of it is just in relation to me. Like I wouldn't speak for all women of like, oh no one should wear this outfit, but I'm more like, I would prefer to wear like a full length coat everywhere. Thank you. Hi, I'm Brad. I'm a philosopher like Kieran. So when I think about doing philosophy, of course I draw a lot of inspiration from how other philosophers do philosophy, but more recently I've gotten a lot of inspiration from areas completely outside of philosophy, like I've been reading some novelists and I'll come across some passages just like, oh if I were writing, if I could use these kinds of techniques in my philosophy writing, that might make it better philosophy. So I was wondering if you have any, you've talked about the role other comics play in informing how you do comedy. Is there any way in which other art forms either like acting you see in like movies or things you read in forms, like how you do comedy? I mean, I really enjoy reading in a written word. I feel like I've always been a big reader. I love movies. Now it's a little strange because it's like movies are a little bit more tied to what I do and I'll see like people I know in them and it sort of separates that element of distance. But I still love watching films and what else? I think music is big. I feel like music sort of hits you on a visceral level in a way that comedy doesn't. Like comedy you sort of have to filter through the language element a lot of times unless it's just like pure slapstick. So I think there's an appreciation for music by a lot of comedians for that. And I also really like like animation and like stop motion and like claymation stuff. Like I just like like whimsical stuff. I think really scratches my itch of what I like to watch. Yeah. I don't know if you can answer this but is there anything specific you could say? Like, oh, this piece of music made me think about doing it this way. I think I'm bad in that I like I'll listen to something a lot and then I'll just go to the next thing. Like I feel like I'm not good at having that one thing that I love forever. But I will say I just watched this short by this animator named Kirsten Lepore called High Stranger. You should definitely watch it. It's creepy but it's also funny and the intersection of the two is great. Yeah. We have time for more questions but while people are thinking about questions I'm just gonna follow up which is do you think about writing novels or like have you thought about is that something you have the ambition to do is sort of spread out from stand up into other media yourself or to act in films? Yeah, I mean I think the nice thing about comedy sort of opens the doors to a lot of writing and acting possibilities. I've enjoyed, I've gotten to write for shows and I've gotten to act a little bit more and I definitely enjoy all of it. I think I'm again bad at setting goals. So I'm just like if someone offers me a thing I'll do it but I think I would enjoy maybe voicing a character in an animated thing and writing it. Yeah, so I think smaller goals. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Hi, so I'm Vicky. I'm a grad student compared to media studies here so I'm gonna ask you a few media related questions. Sure, sure. I'm really interested in your perspective as a main Twitter influencer and how you would view the different types of social media and the different ways you can tell a comedy narrative through them. And so maybe like how is Facebook or YouTube or Snapchat all different and what trends you see coming up within the comedy field and embracing or pushing away from some of those changes in social media? Yeah, I mean I think right now social media is really big in the entertainment industry in terms of like I think executives are trying to see how to translate people's social media popularity into like other projects for them to get audiences and money too. So I think Twitter for me I just gravitated toward naturally as a medium. I'm lucky in that it's around, it's been around for a long time and it's like still pretty popular. Probably helped by the fact that certain people are really into it. But you know there are other ones like Vine was huge when it really popped and now it's gone. So I think people also acknowledge that some social media is like follows an arc and then it sort of dies out. But I think having some kind of social media presence feels pretty crucial for comedians these days. And there are some who don't but I think they were lucky enough in that they built an audience before and have an audience now. But like if you're just starting now it's a lot harder to build a following without being on the internet at all. Right now I think everyone's really into Snapchat. I don't have a Snapchat account. I don't know if that's hurting me but I you know maybe I'll see if it's around in a year and then I'll begrudgingly start an account. But yeah I think the big thing is just like finding the mediums that you feel like you can be yourself in. Cause I you know some people have YouTube videos they put up every day and that's just not something that I find comes naturally to me. So I think it's finding what works for you and what sort of pushes your voice forward and doesn't feel like you're just trying to shoehorn into the latest trend. Hi. Hello. I'm Jennifer. I'm from the general public. Oh. Great, great good to be in. To piggyback onto that how much cause you've actually responded to me on Twitter which was great after I saw one of your shows and I'm like wow you spend a lot of time responding to people on Twitter. So how do you manage that in your day to day life? Like do you have certain like do you structure it or are you just like I'm in line getting my coffee. I'm gonna. Yeah I wish I was more disciplined about it but it's sort of it's whenever I'm checking my phone and I've tried to be a little bit more discerning about not being on my phone all the time but I don't think I'm very good at it and I think I might have to like start implementing like hours where I'm just not online but now it feels really hard with like the news and stuff cause you just wanna keep refreshing it and then it feels more critical. Like it feels less shallow to be like oh I just need to know what's happening in the world than to be like I need to respond to this fan or whatever it is. Yeah. It feels more crucial. Yes. To respond. I have another question about your writing when you're writing.  I will like very occasionally like write something that I'm very pleased with or that I'm just very smart. But for the most part it'll just be like a thing in my mind where I'm like oh it'd be funny if I said it this way but I won't like. That's far as you go. Yeah. I won't be generous and give myself a laugh. Yeah. I'm Jean. I teach music here at MIT. Oh cool. And I was curious about you know what you've learned with improv and your comedy and how it relates to how you communicate in your you know in your everyday life with people. You know I'm curious about my students and also with my you know my fiance and my you know my kids and my family. How has your improv affected those communications? I mean I'm someone who is like pretty rigid and like like to maintain control. So a lot of the reason I took improv classes to start with was sort of to find ways to break out of that more. I think improv is really good about being okay with being in the moment and not necessarily knowing what's gonna come out of your mouth and knowing what you're gonna say. But it's also very good I think it teaches you to listen to people better because like when you're on you know when you're improvising with other people like really you're piggybacking off of whatever they did and if you didn't listen you're sort of denying that possibility so I think it also just makes you sort of relate work better in groups because you're used to that give and take whereas stand-up is a little bit more selfish in that you are the only one with the microphone and you're you know you're fully in control of what you wanna do but improv I think I don't know it feels like a very useful medium for just teaching people how to relate to each other better. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hello Mark, I'm a clinical psychologist. I'm funny with my patients and a lot of people but I also don't know a lot of times where it comes from. A lot of times it's in the interaction but I can't imagine sitting down yet. This is something I would like to do. I'd like to sit down and write comedy but I think I would get stuck. So do you like say okay I'm gonna try to be funny now or how do you go about that process of approaching that? Yeah it's interesting, comedy is interesting because I feel like if you, I guess it's kind of like anything where if you think about it too hard it starts to sort of disintegrate. Like there's a part of it to me that feels intuitive and there are people who sort of dissect comedy and analyze why exactly this part made people laugh but I feel like a lot of comedians don't think of it in that way. It's more just like instinctual of like oh it would be funny if I did this or like my tendency here would be to make this off-handed remark about this other thing. Like I think it often just feels like a dance or something where you know when you made the right step and you know when you like mis-stepped. But it feels harder to, at least for me, to be like okay now is time to put the joke hat on. Yeah. Do you take, another question, do you take like, do you like watch yourself or say okay why was that funny? Like or almost take notes on when you're like spontaneous. Well sometimes you'll, oftentimes you'll record sets because you might discover something in the moment that you didn't know was there and then you'll relisten and be like oh I see this actually connects better here but a lot of that stuff is like you know it's not premeditated like it sort of just happens organically by virtue of the fact that you've done the joke a million times and you finally like found this new angle or direction to go in but yeah it's harder to I guess control spontaneity, if that makes sense. Yes, it does. I find that in banter I'm funnier than when I if I make an effort it just go, it can go flat but in banter interaction things come out that like surprise me, is that it? Well I think that that's part of it is because a lot of people that are, I think sometimes their friends are like this person is so funny they gotta do stand up and then they do it and it doesn't go well like I think part of that is from the fact that like when you're with your friends you're very comfortable and you're in your element and stand up is like a lot it's not that at all it's like you are having a one-sided conversation with like a group of people who have a certain expectation of what you're going to do so I think in that sense it's not at all like the same as sort of joking around with your friends or like banter where that sort of judging element isn't there and you feel like completely relaxed but I think the best comedians they sort of make you feel like you're just hanging out with them as a friend and they're completely relaxed like I think that's where a lot of comedians want to end up in like in their stage persona. Hi I'm Mara I teach literature here at MIT and I wanted to ask you about something you said when you were saying that sometimes you talk with other comedians about weird things that happen with the audience so I was wondering like what is the weirdest or the funniest or the scariest thing that ever happened to you in front of a crowd. Oh man I feel lucky in that nothing super horrible has happened to me I've had friends where it's like they had some heckler like I had a friend where like a heckler they like brought them on stage because they were being so disruptive and then like cocaine fell out of their pocket like just like stuff where you're just like what is happening like another friend I had did a show where cops came in the middle and arrested someone in the audience like it's just like you just don't know what's gonna happen sometimes but but yeah I think that one of the crazier things is I host a show in New York that's like a free Monday night show and you know we get a lot of like famous drop-ins like it's been a very long running show and one time Chris Rock dropped in and there was like I guess he was unannounced so I introduced him and he went on stage and then someone in the audience was I guess like holding up their phone to like tape him and they have a very strict like no recording or photography policy and he saw it and he was just like oh you gotta stop that and then I guess the guy tried to do it again and then he was just like oh to hell with this you know and then he just like walked off stage like he hadn't even told one joke he had maybe gotten out like two lines he just like left the stage left the building went back to his Chris Rock life and then I had to I was hosting so I had to go back up and be like well cause he was like second so we still had like the whole show ahead of us so I sort of had to do that like tonal shift of like well that was horrible but we can still have a good show and have a good night and you know that guy felt terrible for him cause I think I'm sure he didn't have bad intentions but he like very quickly got himself out of the room cause I think people would have been like he's still here but yeah for the most part it's like anytime something happens that affects the whole room like you have to address it in some way yeah. Hi Rob again I was wondering about you said young comedians they need to have an internet presence and I keep my Twitter private because I find it I don't want people seeing it other than my friends but I was wondering is there ever a worry that you're just throwing a joke out there that you could maybe have used in a stand up but if you had just maybe worked through it a little bit more and you're basically do you ever feel like it's like a waste to tweet something? No I mean I used to feel like sometimes people don't like Twitter because they feel like they're just giving out content for free and I guess I understand that perspective for sure but I think I tweet so much and like sort of cycle through so many ideas that I don't really worry so much that it's like oh someone might have read this line or something because when it eventually works it's way into a joke like there's always going to be an element to it that's different just because it's not being read it's being performed so I think I've learned to stop being like overly precious about being like no one can see this until it's yeah ready yeah. Thanks. You have time for maybe one or two more questions if people have them up you're going to pause, pause yes okay. Hi I'm Lindsay it's a pleasure to be here today. I have three really simple questions. One is as a comedian what does success for me to you? And secondly is have you ever did anything that you really regretted? And then third question is what would you tell the younger self? What was the last one? What would you tell the younger self? Oh got it. Okay first question I already forgot. Success. What is success? What is success? Success is very simple I think when I started it was just to be able to do comedy full time and support myself and I'm lucky enough to be at that place now so I need new goals but I do feel lucky in that I get to do what I enjoy for a living. But yeah I guess success would just be to continue to push myself creatively and make work that I'm proud of and then have I ever done anything I'm ashamed of? I know I made jokes like when I first started that now I would be like I wouldn't joke about that like you know like some I can't think of one off the top of my head but there's definitely things that I'm sort of like now that I think about it I'm like that doesn't like sit as well with me now as it did back then like cause I feel like when you're starting you're sort of like if you get an easy laugh you're like okay I'm gonna keep going down this path but like I did stuff about like being Indian and sort of joking about having brown skin and how that can translate to so many different things and now I'm like then I probably wouldn't tell that joke so I think you have a little bit more of a conscience about what you wanna say and then lastly I what would I tell my younger self? I think I would say that's a good question. I guess I would say it's all gonna be okay. And that is the perfect note on which to end. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you, thank you for the great question.