My name is Robert Lamb, I'm the Director of the Program on Crisis Conflict and Cooperation here at CSIS. Welcome. It's a pleasure to see you all today. It's a really great pleasure for me to be able to present to you Minister Mohammed Hanif Atmar to speak with you this morning. You all know, probably know that Minister Atmar has been one of the most important figures in Afghanistan over the past 10 years. He's been Minister of the Interior, Minister of Education, Minister of World Development. He has spent a great deal of time, even before that period, on humanitarian issues working with NGOs. He has been an author and an editor of a good number of books on development and politics and Afghanistan.  There are, as you well know, there's a great deal of interest in understanding where the Afghan transition is going to be going over the next two years. We talk about 2014, but as we know the transition has already begun. It won't end in 2014, it might not end in 2015, we don't know. But what's crucially important is that this is an Afghan transition. It's not an international transition. There are a lot of internationals in Afghanistan right now and they will be handing off more and more of what they, I should say we, internationals, are doing two more and more Afghans, but the fact is Afghans are already doing a lot for their own country and have been throughout their history. One thing that's crucially lacking in a lot of the conversations about strategy in Afghanistan and a lot of the conversations about transition in Afghanistan are what Afghans think about all of this. And so something that we're trying to do here at CSIS is to bring some Afghan voices to the public conversation. Since April we had the pleasure of hosting a colleague of minister Atmar, former minister of foreign affairs Abdullah, known to the international media as Abdullah. And we hope that this becomes a series in which we bring prominent Afghans to CSIS, to Washington, so that we can listen to Afghans and I'm tempted to add for a change. So without further ado, I would like to hand over the microphone to minister Atmar and thank you so much for coming today. Thank you. If you don't mind, I'll put it in there, okay? Good morning. Salam alaikum. Sob bachar. Wish you all a very good morning. Let me first of all say how proud and privileged I feel to be able to talk to this distinguished audience. Thank you for coming. Thank you for taking interest in Afghanistan. And thank you for taking interest in my perspectives. I would very much like to thank the leadership and all colleagues of CSIS to invite me here. I feel privileged. Thank you for this. I can assure you that from now on I will read every publication you have. That's a pleasure. This idea of me being here while I was enjoying the peace at home after nine years of hard work with the government came up when a very good friend of Afghanistan, a very notable and respectable personality that I have very high respect for, Mr. Huda Farooqi came up with the idea of why not going to the U.S. to talk to people. He is here.  If I had known them during my government time, you would have seen most of them poached. So that was a pleasure. And I know, Mr. Farooqi, from my education days, when for the first time a private sector leader came to my office and said, Mr. Minister, we are interested in financing education in Afghanistan. I said, you must be kidding. Most people come here to talk to me about contracts getting from either the ministry or the USAID and others. That school, which was a technical vocational school, created, established with this wonderful idea of Mr. Farooqi and his colleagues, is now becoming a center of excellence. Of course, later on USAID supported that initiative, which is great in terms of public-private partnership, not to mention the Afghan American University. The point I'm trying to make, that Anaheim colleagues and the rest of our colleagues from the private sector should know that we acknowledge, and we are grateful for what you've done. This also brings me to another acknowledgement that I must make, and I do it from the bottom of my heart, that some of you I know already have served in Afghanistan, either as military personnel, diplomats, civilians, humanitarian workers, or as private sector investors and entrepreneurs. And you've done that with great honor and excellence. We are grateful for that. At times, I get a little bit upset to read that some of Afghan leaders do not sound as grateful as they need to be. That does not represent the Afghan view. The Afghan view is, we are grateful to your brave men and women in uniform who have made their ultimate sacrifices for Afghanistan to your taxpayers. I know how hard they work. And I've seen how that hard-earned money has been invested in Afghanistan, just to give you one little example. In about 5,000 years in Afghanistan of our recorded history, less than 2,000 schools had been built. In two and a half years as a minister of education, with your tax money, we built over 3,500 schools. It's unheard of in terms of achievements we've made. It was your tax money, it was your dedication as partners of Afghanistan, and it was the sacrifices of your soldiers and ours, too. So that actually brings up a critical issue of our responsibility to make sure that these sacrifices do not go in vain and that we honour them by pursuing the exactly same objectives that these people have sacrificed so much for. Today I will be talking about basically three things. One giving you an Afghan perspective on how the situation is at the moment, a review of the current situation in the country. I will look at the security situation, the transition, peace and reconciliation, and the political crises that we have to get to grips with. Then I would unfortunately have to go to the two scenarios that await our country and perhaps all of us. And third, I would take the liberty to make some policy recommendations, I mean as a private citizen I can certainly make those recommendations, whether they like it or not, but at least I'm no longer constrained by the government, say this, do not say that. One of the things I'm grateful for, this opportunity that Anham, CSIS and other colleagues organised this forum for policy debates, and this is a manifestation of their commitment as their social responsibility as corporate organisation, which is great. Now if I may move onto quickly the security situation and how I see it, or we see it there, and the impact of COIN, I would first highlight that there is no significant reduction in violence. If you look at, I had wonderful power points, but Tony Kodesman killed all of my power points and then of course logistics was also a problem. So if you look at the trends that we are recording, you don't see any significant drop in violence over the past 12 months. Every month on average there are about 500 kinetic operations by the insurgents. Every month on average there is about 300 counterinsurgency activities by our forces and your forces. Every day over the past 12 months, 36 Afghans, civilian, military and your brave soldiers have lost either their lives or got wounded. So our casualty rate is 36 people a day, killed in action and wounded in action. Similarly, 30 kinetic operations on daily basis is what is happening. Now this is general obviously, but it doesn't explain the variations in different regions of the country. Now I try to look at the six major objectives of the current counterinsurgency campaign that we often hear about although they are used interchangeably by our colleagues and try to do some kind of assessment as to whether we are making progress. The first objective that they are often putting for the counterinsurgency is protection of the civilians. Now this worked beautifully in Kandahar and Helmand in south. The effort produced result, but also in the north, particularly in Kunduz, Mazar-e-Sharif, Balkh, Tahar, to some extent in Josjad and Saripol, to a less extent in Faria. But you do not see the same progress in the east, south-east and even in the west. Girat is probably as volatile these days as Kandahar. Konar is more volatile than Helmand. So the statement made by leaders here that the progress is an even, fragile and reversible is true. I subscribe to that assessment. The second objective they put often is to reverse the Taliban insurgents' momentum and degrade their capability. True in the south and north, not true in the east, south-east and in the west. So it's not so black and white. You have gray areas as well. Third is, force the insurgents to a negotiating table, the current objective. I don't have any evidence that this has happened first. Of roughly around 30,000 plus insurgents, full-time and part-time insurgents, only 8% have reconciled so far. And 99% of them not from the south, from other regions of the country. So you don't see that correlation. And I say heaven to Al Qaeda, great, yes, of course, leader was killed. But I see early signs of their return to Konar and Nuristan in the east. It's not going to be easy for our military leaders to accept the fact that they are returning. Over the past nine, 10 months, two important operational commanders of Al Qaeda were killed by US forces in Konar. Expand the government's area of influence. Yes, it has been achieved in the south and north, but not necessarily in the east and south-east. Finally, build the Afghan national security forces, grow them rapidly, which is one of the objectives of the campaign, the counterinsurgency. Yes, they've made significant progress on that one. So in a nutshell, the current campaign is producing tactical results, which may not add up to a strategic intended result. Why? There are three problems, at least. Problem one, unless the sanctuary's problem is addressed, the terrorism industry, rather than calling the sanctuaries alone, but it is an industry now producing at an industrial scale terrorists who are ready to blow themselves up. Unless that problem and that in Pakistan is addressed, there is absolutely no way we can win this war. There will be a war of attrition, an attrition warfare forever. They're not going to win either. So that's problem one that needs to be addressed. Problem two is our governance problem, for which we Afghans are responsible. Our leaders are responsible. And that doesn't give me any protection either, I've been part of that government. We are responsible. We failed our nation. The corrupt practices of the government, the irresponsibility shown by our leaders, have made actually our situation worse. It may not be the main driver of insurgency and terrorism, but it is definitely a facilitating factor. It is creating a fertile ground for the terrorism element to grow. And there's also a third problem, and that is that we are losing the regional consensus in that region. In early years, everybody was opposed to Taliban and al-Qaeda in that region, with the exception of one country, which was half opposed to al-Qaeda, but not necessarily to Taliban. Today, it's not the same situation. There are other countries that are now actively financing Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan. So we lost that regional consensus. Today, as I said, there's only the people of Afghanistan and probably India who would support the long-term presence of the U.S. in Afghanistan. Nobody else in that region. Well, what matters for us is the fact that we Afghans support their presence. And final factor in that might be the issue of that our commanders, your commanders, are working against a deadline that is not fair. Before even surge was approved in total, they started to talk about the drawdown. So it did not give enough time to our leaders on the ground to do the right thing. I hope they will be given sufficient time that the drawdown is not as rapid as their rhetoric these days against the long-term engagement. That point I was trying to make was about the transition of security responsibility to the Afghans. Is this an issue that Afghans support wholeheartedly? Because it is an issue of our national sovereignty. Second, can we sustain it? The answer is yes and no. It depends on a number of factors. One would be the continued presence of a residual force, counterterrorism force in the country. Second, the growth and sustainment of the Afghan national security forces, which essentially is a fiscal commitment. And third would be the diplomatic surge and its impact on Pakistan in particular and the region to promote a peace and reconciliation and be remove, eliminate the sanctuaries. Without these factors, it's absolutely simple. What we cannot achieve, let's look at our assets at the moment in the theater as a to borrow from our military colleagues. You have 305,000 Afghan brave men and women in uniform. You then have 150,000 brave men and women as international soldiers. Probably the best humanity has ever produced in terms of capability and training. With 450,000, we have a problem at the moment. We are making progress in Helmand and Kandahar, but we are not making progress in East and South East, and there is also the drawdown plan. Why do we believe that after four years, Afghans alone will be able to manage that problem? The assumption is that there will be a significant degradation of Taliban insurgents capability. Therefore the Afghans will be able to handle it. And there will be a change in Pakistani policy to support sanctuaries. Fine, if these two come true, it will work. Otherwise, it would be just misleading ourselves. But of course the transition will have an awful lot of other impacts on the Afghan, particularly Afghan economy. If our economy falls, our state will fall. The third issue was peace and reconciliation. Frankly speaking, it doesn't work. I mean, the 8% that have reconciled, most of them are not genuine insurgents, and particularly not from the regions that matter. It doesn't work because three important enablers are not in place. Enabler number one is the Pakistani policy. Sorry, colleagues, don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Pakistan. I love Pakistanis as much as any other Afghan does. No, I'm serious. I'm just talking about policies of Pakistani state and Afghan state, which I do not love. So that's number one. You can't make peace with Taliban if they are not able to make their own decision. I must have seen a significant number of Taliban leaders during my time in Ministry of Interior. The number one issue they brought up with me was, what about our families? And I said, what about your family? No Taliban leader or commander can be trusted with weapons and finances unless he has his family in Pakistan. And I have evidence of that. When I went to negotiate for the release of a handover of Mullah Baradar to Afghanistan, I found out that his young boy as young as 13 was also in that jail. So if somebody does something wrong, his family is going to be punished as well. So it is like a collateral for good behavior. Negotiating with some people whose children are taken hostage is absolutely not the right negotiation. Now, I don't have to generalize here. There are people such as Saraj Haqani who is a committed killer. Whether his family is there or not, he will continue to kill Afghans and international soldiers. We have to have a different approach to that. The second enabler in this is the Afghan national unity. If we don't have it, we will not make it. We will not bring peace to Afghanistan. It can't be peace for one ethnic group. It will have to be peace for every Afghan in Afghanistan. It can't be just peace for men. It will have to be peace for our children and women as well. So national unity is not just an ethnic issue anymore. It is how we respect the rights of our citizens. Regardless of their gender and their ethnicity. The third enabler is regional consensus. The United States, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran are the most important players in this. Oh, of course I am not playing down the roll that India, Turkey, Russia, China, the Saudis are playing in this. What knows, sometimes they are more interested in our country than we are. So that will have to be taken into account if this peace is to work. Fourth issue in terms of our current situation is the constitutional and political crisis that we have at the country at the moment. First there is a power struggle between the three branches of the government. And second, the legitimacy of these three institutions has been seriously questioned. There is a divide and rule policy that our leaders are pursuing at the moment which I don't like, which will not produce national unity. And there is this corruption scandals one after another which takes away legitimacy of the state and the confidence of our public into our state. Now I have only ten more minutes so I will be very, very quick. Now considering this, Afghanistan will have to get to grips with the prospects of two scenarios. Scenario one, that Afghanistan falls. Scenario two, that we all succeed in Afghanistan. If it falls, why would it fall? If there is a premature drawdown of troops. If there is a significant reduction of economic assistance. If there is no change in the policies of our leaders to address the governance deficit. And if the vacuum created is to be felt by regional actors. If these things happen we will fall. And that means the state will disintegrate. Afghan National Army and the police will be factionalized. And loyalty would shift from the state and people to factional leaders. And there will be a perfect scenario for regional war game. And it will be a proxy led civil war in Afghanistan. Which would lead to the disintegration of Afghans. A significant part of Afghanistan would be controlled by the insurgents. And that part is going to provide safe haven to the Taliban. To the Al-Qaeda, LAT, to Tehriki Taliban in Pakistan. To Jaisi Muhammad and to all the other groups that do not have problems with Afghans alone. They have a problem with every one of us. The second scenario is that we succeed. And in that case I am not talking about the same level of military security. And fiscal commitment on the part of the United States. But I am talking about smart policies and programs. Which will enable us to succeed in this. Which means draw down as planned, but not in a hurried way. Second, keeping a residual force of 20,000 to 30,000 in Afghanistan. To work with our national security forces. And train them and sustain them. Third is to keep a reasonable level of economic assistance. To sustain the state and the national security forces. And to work as a cushion against the significant economic slowdown that will happen as a result of a transition. In this case, whether Pakistan cooperates or not, we Afghans will be able to protect our country. It will be an attrition warfare. But we would still be able to reconstruct, develop the nation. With assistance from the West. That is possible. In this case, Afghans will invest more in blood, you less. You don't have to invest in blood. We will do that investment. You are expected to invest in treasure. Not at the same level. A much reduced level. Now, of the 10 minutes I have 8 left, 9 left. I have my 7 recommendations. I know I do not have the time to go through all of them. My recommendation one would be do not let the Afghan state fall. And the major guarantee for that not to happen is the strategic partnership agreement. Between the United States and Afghanistan. I am sorry for what our leaders at times emotionally say. Whether they mean it or not, it doesn't really matter. The Afghans would like to have that strategic partnership. Today's report from our lawyer Jirga was. The overwhelming majority even forgot about conditionalities and said, we want the strategic framework as strategic partnership. Why? Most of them, by the way, from the South and East. Which is apparently to be affected by these night raids and all the rest. I'm not saying that our president is not right on the night raids. He is right. He is right on civilian casualty. He is right on detention centers. But where I disagree with him is that don't bring it up as conditionalities as if the United States does not care. And second, you cannot achieve them over the coming weeks. You will have to achieve them over the coming months and sometimes even years. What does that mean? So we don't sign the strategic agreement, which is ridiculous. We know that the survival of our nation depends on partnership with you. That is the fact. Second, of course, a long term fiscal commitment. I know this is so unpopular these days in the United States, but I have to say it, that we have to, unfortunately, in order to protect our children. You here and me there, we have to make these sacrifices. Second, a diplomatic search is my recommendation, not in words, but to produce a result. What result? That Pakistan decides to abandon its policy of supporting or basically use of militancy for political national security objectives. It's wrong. Now, I must say that Pakistan has some legitimate concerns and interests that Afghanistan and the United States must attend. That does not mean that Afghanistan will lose part of its national sovereignty. We would not. We might be ready for another 30, 60 years of warfare if the issue is loss of national sovereignty. That is not it. This is not what we can compromise on. But the legitimate interests of Pakistan will have to be respected, will have to be protected. There are two ways to, my third recommendation will be to eliminate the sanctuaries. Option one, favorable option, is to convince Pakistan to stop doing it. I had my conversation with my counterpart about two years ago. He said, well, we can launch a military operation anywhere in Pakistan to get rid of the sanctuaries. And I said, Mr. Minister, I don't want your army. I want you policemen to go and arrest these Khweta Shoram members in Pashtunabad. This is the address. I can send my policemen with you. You don't need to use an army. So was the case in the arrest of Mullah Beradan in, I mean, how many times you must have heard here in this country that Osama bin Laden was not in Pakistan. You don't hear that anymore. So we need to talk about that at some other point. He is not. That is very true. Peace and reconciliation cannot happen without, A, our national unity, B, Pakistan cooperation and support, C, regional consensus. And that is my recommendation. Building up national Afghan security forces, there's absolutely no substitute to that. But I would add one more thing there, that along the border, the time has come that we change our military strategy. There's a new way to secure the border. And that by Afghans themselves, not by international troops. Political reform in Afghanistan, our leaders must be held accountable. And here's one point. It may be quite controversial that I am suggesting. Perhaps the time has come that an accountability process is personally organized for Afghan leaders and Pakistani leaders. Afghan leaders in terms of whether they fight corruption or not, whether they steal from their own public or not. And for Pakistani leaders, whether they support terrorism. If state sponsors of terrorism can get into our legal discourse, there must be a way to put in individual sponsors of terrorism. They cannot turn Afghanistan and Pakistan into a hell for our people. And yet, having their children in the US and Europe to live in peace and study in beautiful institutions at what cost, they must live in the same hell if they are trying to turn for the rest of us. This personal accountability process will put every individual on the spotlight, whether Afghan or Pakistani. Being part of the government, I understand that people respond positively to such accountability processes. We have to find a new way. Final recommendation is we have to continue to support a pro-poor economic growth in Afghanistan. Afghanistan has never had so many billionaires and millionaires in its history. Afghanistan has never been such a better place for its poor that it is now. But the gap between our poor and our millionaires, well, not all of them made those millions illegitimately, but some of them did. Now, a pro-poor economic growth would call for a public-private partnership, which I would wholeheartedly support. I know I still have 10 more minutes, but I have to stop to respect my colleagues here. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir, for that. One of the issues that arises repeatedly in conversations here in Washington, but also in Afghanistan, is that 2014 is not only the year of the transition that we Americans care most about. It's also the year of a rather important presidential election in Afghanistan. And just at the time when a lot of international troops will be leaving Afghanistan, there is, in theory, also going to be a change of leadership within Afghanistan. I'm wondering if you would care to talk about the politics of the upcoming election or any other issues that this particular question raises that you'd like to address. Thank you. We have to look at a number of things in order to make sure that Afghanistan moves towards democracy and strengthening of democratic institutions. Number one is the most strategic partnership between the US and Afghanistan. I'll be very, very frank with you. If Afghans understand that there is no partnership with the US and their future is with Pakistan and Iran and the region, they wouldn't bother about democracy. Because we are not going to have democracy. We will have to have to get to grips with Taliban, Hakanis, and the warlords. So number one, we have to give confidence to Afghan people and say, there is a partnership. We are not going to let you down. We will be with you. But you have to do your part as well. Number two, all Afghan leaders will have to have a new framework of partnership with the United States. Again, I'm quite frank on that. At the moment, people are concerned about the future. And as a survival strategy, in the absence of the US, our leaders are thinking to align their interests with the neighbors. Now, is this in the best interest of democracy? No. But if there is a new partnership between the US and Afghan leaders, that partnership is about fighting terrorism, two, building democracy, three, good governance in Afghanistan, four, accountability mutual. I think that would work. Finally, electoral reform is extremely important. Number one, we need to decide on this SNTV and the other type of voting. Number two, we have to ensure the credibility of the Independent Election Commission, which is anything but independent. And number three, we have to get our men, women, and children registered as Afghan citizens, as voters, as those who have rights as a key issue for future elections. Now, I belong to a party now, and I can safely speak on their behalf. They will be interested. They will fight for democracy. They will be interested in that. But they would not just out of blue choose somebody. There will be democratic procedures and processes to see who can win and who has the popularity publicly. Or there might be a support that they would throw behind somebody who is better than the potential candidate of the party. Now, here we learn from your experience. Well, not all of your experience is bad. Well, of course, I've always appreciated. Thank you. We have about 20 minutes for questions. And what I'd like to do is take two questions at a time. So I'd make a couple of requests of that. But first, you identify yourself. Second, that your question be a question and not a statement, and especially not a lengthy statement. And three, if you would wait for the microphone to get to you, then that would be more helpful. So let's start with this gentleman here and this gentleman here, please. Thank you very much, Mr. Atmar. My name is Taitzafar Hashmi from Voice of America's Afghanistan Service. My question goes back to the issue of Pakistan that you raised. You say that you know that there is problem with Pakistan, and its cooperation with the international forces in Afghanistan as well as the Afghan government. What falls, what cannot do the international community and Afghan government cannot do to make Pakistan work the way that you think is legitimate and the way that it should be? Where is the shortcoming in the international community's approach in Afghanistan? And the second question, please. Sayid Jawaad with size, John Hopkins, the Birbatan Residence at size. Mr. Atmar, thank you very much for the very comprehensive presentation on the issue of political transition in the prospect and the scenarios for the future of Afghanistan. I would like you if you could spend a couple of minutes on the economic transition in Afghanistan. You have, at the beginning of your speech, you have alluded to the important role that some of the companies like Anham have played who came in as government contractors initially, but then invested in building the human capital in Afghanistan and entered into partnership with the private sector and even looking into public-private partnership. Now, in some of the upcoming projects, these companies or similar companies are interested to come in Afghanistan, but they are facing stiff competition by China and India. And one reason that they are less competitive is security in Afghanistan. Considering the fact that there has been less progress in developing the Afghan public protection forces for political reason, what security business model do you recommend for American or European companies to implement in Afghanistan to be more competitive? Great, thank you very much. What are the barriers to the international community's ability to deal with Pakistan and what are the barriers to private companies' ability to operate within Afghanistan? Pakistan at least has six legitimate expectations when it comes to Afghanistan. And probably about four when it comes to the international community. Now, these are not the expectations that they have spelt out formally, but in many, many meetings that we've had with them. Well, when it comes to Afghanistan, I'm afraid I have to take a bit more time to explain what these expectations are. Number one, they suggest that we must have the ability to trust you, that we will have strategic partnership with you, but they're saying that to Afghanistan. This is legitimate. Our leaders must behave in a manner that we are not seen erratic, that we are seen as credible partners to negotiate. Second, they will tolerate no threat from Afghanistan. At times they talk about Indian influence in Afghanistan and sometimes the threat of their own separatists. Afghanistan must assure them that, I'm not saying that this is the case now, but there is somebody paranoid here. We have to assure them that this is not the case. Third, they are concerned about riparian rights, that Afghanistan reconstruction might affect their access to water. We must, I mean, we cannot deny water to people. We must take appropriate measures. Number four, it is the transit trade and access to central Asia. And number five is probably benefits from the Afghan reconstruction for their falling economy. And finally, it is some kind of relationship that the government in Afghanistan is seen as reliably and predictably friendly to Pakistan. Now, there are issues when it comes to Afghanistan interference with the Pashtuns of Pakistan, which is absolutely nonsense. We do have a soft spot for them, but we have never been involved in any kind of internal interference. Number, the other would be, which is not legitimate, the deuberant line, well, basically, it's bringing that up is not gonna serve any purpose. When it comes to U.S., the expectations are number one. What about Kashmir? They won't help on Kashmir. Two, what about civil nuclear cooperation? Three, what about economic military assistance? For what about predictability in friendship and strategic? I think as far as these concerns and interests are legitimate, Afghanistan and the United States, as well as the rest of the international community should decisively move to a short. If that doesn't work, then we have to prepare ourselves for a very, very long war with terrorism. Personally, I'm in favor of the FOMA approach. On the issue of Ambassador Jawad, I mean, let me also make that acknowledgement that Afghanistan was proud to have you as our very, very capable and dedicated ambassador. And you've worked quite a lot on these issues. So just the number one that you quite rightly put forward is that the time has come, we've taken from Afghanistan, if you want to see it that way, then let's give it back something in terms of investment. Now projects such as this ATVI school are the Logistics City Park or the projects that we have another partner sitting here, Guard of World, and I must acknowledge they're extremely well thought through programs benefiting Afghanistan and we have Louis Berger and all of you. Please, colleagues, don't take it personal if somebody is not mentioned here. I love you all and I have that respect. They need to now make two strategic moves. One, invest in Afghanistan. Even if something is not economically viable, invest in the Afghan human resources. One key reason why we are so vulnerable to terrorism and insurgency is lack of economic opportunities. I don't say that this is enough to produce terrorism, but this is an enabling factor that needs to be removed. Initiatives such as preferential access for Afghanistan's labor and products in the West and to be facilitated by private public partnership. There are plenty of areas for investment. We would encourage these actors to learn from the experience of those who are there, but at the same time, I must warn them that working with Afghan government is not easy, but at the same time, there are those who would help you with that process. In terms of security model, let's be compliant. The government of Afghanistan has asked all of us to seriously now move to use of APPF, Afghan Public Protection Force. This is going to be the model. And now in this, I disagree with Afghan leaders when they politicize the issue. They don't have their heart in it. They just use it in order to protect themselves against the pressure on corruption. But I agree with them that the time has come to formalize and move away from private-led security to public structures of security. In that, again, there is room for private public partnership. Some of these companies have significant experience in training Afghan police force and Afghan army. Perhaps now they can be drawn on for training the APPF. APPF cannot be produced in large numbers such as 20,000, 40,000 unless the private sector is involved to train them. That will be a kind of model, A, to protect the investment and B, to contribute to the process of institution building and Afghan national security forces capability development. I'm Marvin Weinbaum, the Middle East Institute. Sorry, you've laid great stress on the necessity to have this strategic partnership with the United States. At the same time, you also acknowledge that there is a region here that is going to have to be cooperative if Afghanistan is going to have a good future. And the fact that a long-term American military presence is something which is clearly something not to their liking. How can we reconcile this? How can we expect to have the kind of cooperation and the avoidance of spoilers that we're likely to have if the U.S. is there in a military capacity over a long period of time? Thank you. Arthur McMillan, Agence France Press, on a very similar point. You seem at least fearful of the security implications post-2014-2014, if there is not, as you described, a residual force of maybe 20,000, 30,000 U.S. troops. Do you have any confidence, given the current political appetite and the financial situation facing the Pentagon, that that wish would be granted? And secondly, given that you poset the possibility of, as you termed it, the regional war, the conditions being ripe for a regional war, if there was not the correct conditions in around 2014, how would you see that regional war playing out? What's the scenario that you rather blackly envisage? One reason why we want that strategic partnership and the U.S. military presence in that region is to prevent a regional conflict. One more attack of Bombay-Mombay sort would bring Pakistan and India to a nuclear war. That we should all understand. I've looked at the work all of you've done in terms of how much restraint the Indians showed at that point. Second time it is not guaranteed that they would do that, but it absolutely not guaranteed that LAT would not do that again. That region is far more complex than just that example. The presence of the United States and NATO forces in Afghanistan is not just for the security of Afghanistan. It will have a significantly positive impact on regional security. Now we have evidences to why this is so important. Think of a situation that there is a 100% drawdown pullout of Afghanistan. Iran, India, Russia would not accept the return of Taliban as the government of Afghanistan. And they will use all means, all assets at their disposal. Pakistan would not stop short of anything by having Taliban in power. And they would have support in this from Saudis. There is a little bit of rivalry between. I mean God knows why they cannot live in peace. Everybody is rival with everybody else in that region. So Russia would already think about creating a Bafa state in the north of Afghanistan. This is absolutely predictable that they would go to war with each other. And it's absolutely clear that that war will be taking place in Afghanistan using Afghan proxies. And it may well go out of hand. As I said in terms of the example of one more Bombay type of attack would bring these two nuclear powers into nuclear confrontation. It's absolutely necessary for NATO and the United States and Afghanistan to look at this long-term presence. The region, politically how would that play out? I mean this very same region did not have a problem with the US soldiers intervening, I mean coming in 2001. The Russians were quite happy that that was happening. Iran was quite happy, Indians were happy. How come that they are not happy any longer now? At that point the enemy of the enemy was their friend. But what has changed that it is not the case now? Why is Iran now crying so loud that they wouldn't accept the US presence in Afghanistan? How come you accepted it over the past 10 years? You cooperated with them on Afghanistan because you had something common in interest. They must accept the fact that we are a sovereign nation. We need a strategic partnership with the United States. Whether they like it or not, they must put up with that idea. Finally, at the end of the day, it is your interest, national security and its ours. And they must take precedence over other considerations. Our survival depends because they are ready to tear our country apart. They've done it in the past. There was no US soldier in Afghanistan during the 90s and they fought in our country. So it is in our interest to protect ourselves against them. It is also in your interest because a regional conflict in that region would not give you any comfort level that A, it will be a nuclear conflict and B, that al-Qaeda would not find safe heavens there from which to plan and execute attacks against the United States and its allies. And the fact that the stakes are so high, we must be strategic about it. Well, unfortunately, it's my role to end the party when the time comes. I want to thank Anham and its CEO, Mr. Furugi, for generously underwriting the visit by Minister Atmar today at CSIS. David Bertot is the head of the International Security Program here at CSIS, and he and I both want very much to thank you, Minister Atmar, for coming today and generously giving so much of your time. We know that you have a promising future here and not here so much as in Afghanistan. And we hope that we can hear from you again in the future. And we look forward to welcoming you back in the future. CSIS, the International Security Program on Crisis, Conflict, and Cooperation. We would like to thank all of you for coming today. This will be up on the website at some point this week, perhaps early next week, so if anybody would like to watch it, it'll be there for you. Thanks for coming today.


here we've got a mother who's upset when her child came home and she learned the child in a world history class was for some reason given an ethnic studies question. Two of those questions involved hot sexual ideology issues that we've been reading about in the news and one involved the inability of men to get pregnant and this student thought that men cannot get pregnant. This was on a quiz. That's right. This was a test question. Can men get pregnant? The student answered that they can't and was essentially marked incorrect. And another had to do with male genitalia which seemed again a scientifically biologically obvious answer and yet was also marked wrong. And so the mother spoke about this to a local talk show host and the story kind of went viral from there and it left people wondering why on earth in a world history class would students be asked these questions anyway and I think it gave some fuel to those who say that there's indoctrination going on in the classroom.


Alright, so this video is going to be on CronTabs, CronJobs, whatever, whatever you want to call them. Well, I mean, they're CronJobs and there's your CronTab. They're different. So, if you don't know what those things are, we're going to talk about that. But also, I want to talk about some of the CronJobs that I set up on my machine just to make life a little bit easier, just to optimize things a little bit.  The idea being, there are a lot of tasks sometimes that you don't want to run by yourself manually. You want to schedule for them to run at a particular interval, at a particular time, over and over again or something like that. So, CronJobs are how you do this on Linux or Unix or something like that. Now, most Linux distributions will come with some kind of Cron Manager by default. Arch Linux, however, doesn't. So, if you're an Arch user, you're going to want to install what's called Crony. There are a couple of different Cron Managers you can use, but all of them are really the same.  I'm sure someone has some opinions on it. So, you can just install something like Crony or something else, and you also have to enable the service. So, PseudoSystemCTL enable Crony and PseudoSystemCTL start Crony, if you want it to start now before reboot. So, how do you actually schedule something? How do you actually play around with CronJobs, CronTabs, and what do I use for them? So, now to update your CronJobs, you have to edit what's called your CronTab. And to do that, you can just run CronTab and then with the E option. And this will bring up a list of all the CronJobs you have queued or however you want to think of them. Now, if you're just installing this, this should just be a blank file. So, don't sweat that if there's nothing there. So, here are the commands that I have running. Let's go ahead and talk about this. So, notice the syntax of it. So, the stuff in orange is of course the command. And then to the left of that, there are actually five different elements. So, one, two, three, four, five. So, let's talk about what this means. Now, as an example, I'll actually take this one and I'll move it down so it's a little more visible. So, I have a script that I call DateLog. And what it does is I have it run every single minute.  So, since Cron is running this every minute, I have a log somewhere of all the days that I've been on the computer and how many minutes I've been on. That's just a habit just because why not? So, this runs every minute. So, what is all this stuff to the left here? So, what these, this is really a time of day and time or which days you want this to run on. So, the first element is the minute you want it to run. The second is the hour. The third is the day as in day of the month like 1 to 31. I had to think about how, I didn't have to think. Sometimes you forget how words are pronounced though. So, your minute, your hour, your day, then a month that is 1 to 12. And then a day of the week as in Sunday to Saturday where Sunday is 0 and Saturday is 6. So, this command, I want to run every single minute that I'm online. So, that's why it has a cleaning star here or the asterisk. This means it's running every minute of every hour of every day of every month and every day of the week. That's what this means. Now, let's look at one of these other ones. So, I have, for example, NewsBoat is my RSS feed reader and I want it to update RSS feeds automatically refresh with this command every 15 minutes or so. And this is what this command does. Actually, let's talk about the other one first because these two, I'll go ahead and say, are doing the same thing. They're running a command every 15 minutes. This one is to update my RSS feeds. This is to update my music database with MPD. Now, if I want, so what do I mean by these are the same thing? Now, they're still running every hour, every day, every month. But if you look at the MPC update command, what I've specified here for minutes is I wanted to run at the top of the hour, 0 minutes after, then 15 minutes after, then 30 minutes after, then 45 minutes after. So, that effectively means every 15 minutes. So, another way of doing this would actually be to use this syntax here, where it's basically every minute divided by 15. So, these two commands are more or less the same. I don't know if it's actually every 15 minute interval. I think it's each one that's divisible by 15. I think that's what that means. But either way, these are basically more or less the same thing. Now, let's talk about changing these commands. Hypothetically, let me move this up because we're not going to use it anymore. Let's say, with my RSS feeds, let's say I only want them to update on days of the week, or like weekdays, like Monday through Friday. I don't want any, I don't want to have to deal with the internet every on Saturday and Sunday. Now, in order to do that, we can change the day of the week. And as I said, 0 is Sunday and 6 is Saturday. One way we could do it, one bad way, well, not bad, it works, but one clumsy way to do it is just list out all the other days. So, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, all numbered. That's one way to do it. But that's the same way, that's the same thing as saying one through five, right? So, if I were to save and close out of this, this would basically, it would be reloading news boat every 15 minutes of every hour, every day of the month, every month. But only on weekdays. That's what that would be doing. Okay, so that's what that's about. So, these are the commands I have. As I said, I have a date log here. I have another cron tab I'll show you in a second. That's my root cron tab, but this is what I have here. So, I have the news boat update for my RSS feeds. I have my music thing. I have my date logger. And this thing here is my music. Well, actually I should explain, or not my music, my email. I should explain what this is about. This is my email refresh command. And you might notice up here every three minutes or so. Well, literally every three minutes, because this is running every three minutes. There's a little icon that says I'm updating mail. And this script deals with that. So, this is to update my mail. What all this is about is this is specifying what screen, what display, basically I'm using for this command. Because if this command finds new mail, it's going to send a notify send command to appear up here. And it's going to say, you got new mail. Actually, let me show you how that works in action. I'm not going to show you with the mail script, but let's make up a cron job just to learn about it. Let's say, so it's 9.31 right now. Let's say we want to command the run at 9.33. So, it's going to be 33 minutes after. It's going to be 9, actually it's not going to be 9, it's going to be 21. I should say the hours are on 24 hour time. In fact, let's actually specify what specific day we are on. We are on August the 4th, so I'm going to put a 4 here. 8 for the month. And then day of the week is, what is it, Saturday. So, I'm going to save that. It might be a little too late. I think I have to quit for it to actually load. So, that should show up within a minute. And while that's working, I am going to... Oh, actually, I didn't actually give it a command. I'm retarded. So, I was going to put notify send, and we'll just have a command. This is a cron command. And I'll change that because I don't know, we might be running out of time. So anyway, I'm going to say cron... While that's loading, I'm going to open up my root cron tab, just to show you what I have here. The two commands that I have run as root. Now, to get to this, I just ran sudo cron tab. But the two commands I have is... First off, I have update db run. Now, if you don't know what that is, this is... Oh, there's my mail reloading. Sorry. That's again one of the scheduled tasks. If you don't know what update db is, basically there's a command on Linux called locate, which is a very efficient find command because it indexes all of your files so they can be searched really easily. So I can run the locate command and then find, you know, secret file, which I actually added before this video, and it immediately finds it. But in order for locate to work and work so instantaneously, you have to update your database. And that's what this is. I have it run every 30 minutes, which I could rewrite as being, you know, slash 30 or something like that. So anyway, that's one command I have run, running. And another command I have running, which might be of use to archer users, is this pacman command. Now, when is this running? I actually have it run every five minutes after... Oh, there's our cron command working, so that worked out perfectly. But I have this run every five minutes after the hour, and that's just to avoid conflicts with other crons that are running at the top of the hour. And it runs every two hours, as this says. And what it does is it runs pacman update with the w option. And what that means is search for new updates for my packages online, but go ahead and download them, but don't actually install them. And no confirm is just to hit yes, so it doesn't, like, try and ask the invisible user if you want to continue. So this command, every two hours, five minutes after the hour, basically just downloads all of the updates that happen to exist, and I can easily install them later whenever I want. Notice also I have this command, which this really just updates i3 blocks. So I have this little notifier up here with packages. It ends up I have nine packages that I could update. And if I click on this, well, I should say once this command runs, this little pkill command basically just tells i3 blocks to update its estimate of how many packages I have. And I'm going to click on this, and what I have it run, this isn't part of cron, but what I have it run in my system is do you want to go ahead and install all these programs. And notice I've already downloaded all these, so if I press enter to continue, it's really just going to immediately install them because this command downloaded them for us. So that's about it. So yeah, so those are my cron jobs. I hope if those of you who are new to cron, there are lots of things you can play around with it and do. And yeah, so hopefully, for those of you who already knew about it, this gave you some ideas of the kind of stuff you can do with it, or at least the stuff I like doing with it. Anyway, so that's about it, and I'll see you guys next time.


Okay, so so Jeremiah chapter one, right and verse five, maybe verse four and five in the word of the Lord came to me saying, Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I sanctified you. I ordained you a prophet to the nations. Okay, so the Lord telling Jeremiah the prophet saying, Oh, this is what this is what my plans were for you.  Okay, if you go down to verse nine, you know, in between from there, till verse nine, Jeremiah has this conversation, like he has zone fears, he's saying, Lord, you know, I'm young, I'm still young, you know, I can't do this. And then the Lord says in verse nine, the Lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth and the Lord said to me, Behold, I have put my words in your mouth.  A very important principle or instruction that we see here, one is the commissioning and the ordaining of prophet Jeremiah to be a spokesperson to the people, to the nations. Okay, the second one we see here is the Lord himself filling the prophet with his words and saying, This is what you will do with these words that I've given you that you will, these words are to pull down to destroy and also to root and to plant and to build up. Okay, so if you look at our own lives as followers as disciples of the Lord, we have been commissioned to be his spokesperson, right, to be his mouthpiece to the nations again to the different people groups. And this is what the Lord has commissioned us to do. You know, the same thing applies that in the communication of the gospel and in the declaration of his words, that we can accomplish this or he has called us to accomplish this, like to to uproot and also to plant, like to pull down to destroy and also to build up. Okay, so in the words that we speak, right, it's so very important that we are mindful of this, that we are also commissioned by God to do the very same thing and this principle holds good. And that is why in Proverbs 18, I think we see that the death and life are in the power of the tongue, right, and it's not just any words that we speak in order to build and in order to uproot, but it's the words of God. We repeat what God has spoken. We declare what God has already declared, right. So let's just pray and come at ourselves to speaking his word and also expect to see the uprooting happening and also to see the building and the planting happening through the ministry of God's word. Father, we thank you this day that, Lord, you've also called us and commissioned us, O God, to be your spokesperson, Father God. Yes, Master, to be vessels of honor in your hand, wherever you send us to whichever people group among whom you call us to be the salt and light. So this morning, God, we consecrate ourselves, God, and also position ourselves to speak your word, to proclaim your word, which is well able to uproot, O God, everything that needs to be uprooted and every lie, every deception, O God, everything that is not of you, every stronghold, God, to be brought down and also to build up to nurture and to establish, Father God, your plans, your desires, God, your dreams, O God, for us, O God, that we will speak it forth, O Father God, ourselves and upon circumstances, God. And I pray that we'll be careful to do this, God, that we'll be able to, we'll be, Lord, in all humility, speak your word, Father God. Declare your thoughts, God, over ourselves. We thank you. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. Okay, so I just want to remind us, you know, the importance of speaking his word and importance of agreeing with God's word, okay? In all circumstances, in all ups and downs of life, right? So it's wonderful to speak God's word and declare God's word when things are going fine, right? When things are all fine and everything is, we're all happy emotionally. And it's fine. Glory to God, praise God, hallelujah. But when things are not going so good, right? When there are challenging circumstances, so we need to get back to his word and say, God, you know, this is what you have spoken. This is what you have said. And it's important, God wants us to do that. God does not want us to agree with the devil. God does not want us to partner with fear, right? God does not want us to partner with anything else, any lie of the enemy, right? So he wants us to partner with him because we are actually co-workers with him. So he wants us to partner with him in speaking, in declaring what he has already spoken. It's very important, right? Something very foundational. It's something very, very important. Okay, let's look at the second chapter in our notes, which is about prosperity. So when we say prosperity, what comes to your mind? What picture comes to your mind? Prosperity, money, more money. When I think of prosperity, I can think of, you know, I remember seeing this picture somewhere or video somewhere, you know, like these coins falling, right? All these coins falling and, you know, prosperity. So different images come to our mind, right? So we're going to look at what prosperity is, what is biblical prosperity, okay? And how it applies to us as followers of the Word of God, okay? Simply put, we need to understand that prosper, the word prosper means to be successful in everything that we put our hands to, in anything that we put our hands to. So it might involve money, it need not involve money, okay? So that's very important. So when you say prosperity, it does not always have to be with money, right? It is to be successful, it is to be fruitful, right? So that is to prosper, okay? When scripture says, okay, to prosper and to be in health, just as your soul prospers, you know. So when your soul is prospering, what does it have to do with money, right? 3 John verse 2, right? I pray that you would prosper and be in health just as your soul prospers, which means your mind and imagination and your thoughts and everything. Let it prosper. What does it mean? It means to thrive and flourish, right? So I think it's good to have a picture where when we say prosperity, we're thinking of a field which is so fertile and all, you know, if you ride through the country and through the villages and you see these fields where it's all grown and ready for just fresh and green, right? And it's good to have that kind of a picture rather than just coins falling, right? It's because it's so much more, okay? So when we say biblical prosperity, okay? So what is it? What do we mean when we say biblical prosperity? It means that now there's no chapter and verse again standing of it. It means that biblical prosperity, it means to have success which is divinely enabled. Okay, what does that mean? Divinely enabled. Yeah, when we say divinely enabled, what does that mean? To enable something, to be skilled in something, to be empowered, right? To give favor, to have access permission, right? To be divinely enabled, okay? So it's divinely enabled success.  So it's divinely enabled success, growth and increase, okay? So when you say biblical prosperity, that's what we are looking at. That's what we mean. We say it's divinely enabled success, divinely enabled growth, divinely enabled increase through divinely appointed means, okay? So when we say divine is God appointed means, right? So divinely appointed means, God appointed means. What does means refer to here? Means methods, right? A process, right? So a divinely appointed method for divinely appointed purpose. So there is a purpose in all that. It is to take care of your need. It is to take care of others' needs. It is to extend the kingdom of God and all that. So it's divinely enabled success, growth, increase through divinely enabled means or process or method and for divinely enabled purpose, divinely appointed purpose, okay? So when we look at prosperity, when we say biblical prosperity, this is what it is, okay? So it's a clean thing. It's a good thing, right? So it is something that is God appointed. God enabled, empowered and God in a way of doing things, right? And for God's purposes. So we can never fault God's purpose, right? So it's for His purpose. So that is biblical prosperity, okay? So the reason we are going back to certain things to, you know, to reiterate certain things, according to biblical standards is because especially in this area, whole area of prosperity, first of all, the wrong idea that prosperity is money, okay? That's an association. The other thing is that prosperity is wrong, okay? Prosperity is something which is of the devil. It's of the world, right? Or worldly way. That's the association that we might have. So just want to clear those things, right? We're going back to scripture again and we're going to look at this. So one more time. What is biblical prosperity? It's divinely enabled, success, growth, increase through divinely appointed means. So when we say means, what does it refer to? Ways, methods, processes, okay? For divinely appointed purpose, okay? So the big picture, why? To answer that question, why is this there? Why is this, you know, divinely appointed method and success and growth and everything? Why is it there? That answers that. So it's for God's purpose. He appoints that, okay? So it's divinely enabled success. So which means that God is in this whole thing, right? God enables us, so which is good, which is holy, which is good. God enables us. God gives us the ability to get wealth. It is He who gives us the ability to get wealth, right? It is He who gives us, you know, like we see in Isaac's time, he soared in time of famine and then he saw the increase. God gave him increase, right? So God is involved in it, so it's righteous, it's pure, it's holy. So He enables, He empowers us, okay? And we also see that the means through which we get it is holy, right? Because it's the nature of God to be holy. So divinely appointed means which means that the method through which this wealth comes in, it has to be righteous, it has to be holy, okay? Because it is enabled by Him. So which means that everything that is not enabled by Him, you know, if the method, if the way of getting it is unrighteous, that is not for His purpose. We might actually somehow fit in and say, okay, you know this, but anyway we are using it for this. It doesn't work out that way. It doesn't bring glory to God, right? So we need to be aware of that, okay? It leads us to this other, you know, topic, can a lie serve the truth? Can a lie serve the truth? Because we are talking about divinely appointed methods or ways. Psalm 23 and verse 3, He restores my soul. He leads me, how does He lead me? Or where does He lead me? In parts of righteousness. He leads me in parts of righteousness, which means that the part that He leads us on, these are ways or parts, steps, the path, you know, if you look at a path, there are many steps that you take down that path, right? So all those steps are righteous steps. Steps of holiness, steps of righteousness. So He leads us, whenever He leads us, He leads us in parts of righteousness. Why? It says, for His name's sake. Because His name is holy. He is righteous, okay? So He leads us in parts of righteousness for His name's sake.  Have you heard that? The end justifies the means. Okay, what is the meaning of that? The end justifies the means. Anyone? Sorry, Anna. It is a little bit show what means. I'll just ask the online audience, anyone, the end justifies the means. What does that mean? Meaning of that. It's a popular saying in the sense, some people say the end justifies the means. So, okay, the end result, okay? So let's say the end result is something noble. It's a good cause. That justifies the method or the process that we actually involve in in order to reach that result. That is what it means. The end, hey, it's a noble goal. It's a noble cause. We are doing ministry. We are helping, feeding the poor. So that justifies how I get there. Which means, you know, it doesn't matter how I get the money. It doesn't matter what I do to get the money. Right? The end is what I'm doing something noble, something good. So in whatever way I get it, it's okay. So that is what it means. The end justifies the means. So I want to ask us, you know, is it true or false? Or is it okay or not? Why? If it's, okay, just one second. Yeah. Thanks, Nina. That's what it is, the explanation of, yeah. So if you're saying false, okay, it's not correct for a believer to actually have that kind of a philosophy. Why? Why do you say that? It's a good thing, right? We're building church. We're buying something. We are feeding the poor. We are building something. I mean, I don't know, some homes and good schools and free education, but you know, it's a good cause, right? Which is not right. So the reason it's not right is because God's ways are parts of righteousness. And we just read just now. He leads us in parts of righteousness for his name's sake. Okay. So he is holy. He is righteous. So he leads us in those parts, which is holiness and righteousness. So the thing is when we indulge in something, even for when we, you know, we try telling ourselves, we try convincing ourselves, hey, it's for a good cause, right? We are actually not walking in parts of righteousness. We are actually displeasing God, right? So it's very important for us to understand this, because when we say biblical prosperity is divinely, it's through divinely appointed means. It's through divinely appointed methods. So we never compromise on that when we talk about prosperity. It's not like, okay, I do it any other way. You know, I do it anyway. I rob a bank and I give to the poor.  Robin Hood, Robin Hood robs from the rich and gives to the poor. Okay. So we can't have a Robin Hood kind of a mentality, right? I'll do this, you know, I'll rob a bank, I'll get this. And somehow I will, you know, justify why I'm doing what I'm doing. Okay. So we are talking about prosperity that is appointed, the means by which we get it is divinely appointed. Okay. Let's look at one more scripture, 2nd Chronicles 16 and verse 9. For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth to show himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to him. Okay. So in a most being is loyal to the Lord. Right. So there's nothing that is causing any kind of guilt or shame or, you know, there's the heart is fully loyal to him. And he wants to show himself strong. Right. God wants to show himself strong. God wants to display himself and show what he can do. Okay. So the thing is, when we are living our lives for divinely appointed purposes, we can experience divinely enabled success, growth and increase through divinely enabled means, appointed means. Right. And we, when we are, when our venture is or whatever we are doing is for divinely appointed purposes. Right. So which means that what? God is not against prospering his people. God is not against success.  God is not against your increase. Right. As long as it's through his means, as long as it's when he leads us in parts of righteousness, we don't go off that path. Right. Okay. Let's look at the lives of some people. Okay. We look at, okay, this is a fairly long passage. Maybe you can read through it, you know, about Jacob. Okay. Jacob, we read in Genesis 28 and also Genesis 30. Okay. Genesis 30, 25 to 43. It's a fairly long passage. So we look at a supernatural means by which the Lord increased Jacob's flock. Okay. So I think most of us know that incident where, you know, maybe I'll just read from verse 37. Now Jacob took for himself rods of green poplar and off the almond and chestnut trees, peeled white strips in them and exposed the white, which was in the rods and the rods, which he had peeled. Okay. This is Genesis 20, sorry, Genesis 30 and verse 37 onwards. Right. So it was 38 and the rods, which he had pealed, he said before the flocks and the gutters and the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink so that they should conceive when they came to drink. So the flocks conceived before the rods and the flocks brought forth, streaked, speckled and spotted. So something that he did in the natural, which was a supernatural act. Okay. So it was a supernatural thing through which his flock increased.  You can go through that. So all that to say that God is well able to give us supernatural or to enable us in a supernatural manner to get a growth, increase and success in supernatural ways. Right. Okay. Let's look at the next thing which is about faith and material things. So look at some examples of men, women in the Bible, people whom actually God prospered. Okay. So again, for us to understand that God is not against prospering his people, whom he calls for his purposes. And these are people who did, you know, who were really sold out to him. Okay. Of course they messed up, they did mistakes, et cetera, but God really prospered them. Okay. And prospered them in material things. Right. Think of prosperity. We think, okay, spiritually they were thriving and that's the thing. You know, the Lord himself was their reward. That's the thing. But when you look at the words in scripture, we see that the Lord prospered them in material ways. So the Lord is not against that in any way. Okay. So let's look at Abraham. Okay. Genesis 24. You can just follow through in your notes also. What page number is it? Anyone? Page number eight. Okay. For those of you who are following online, page number eight. Faith in material things. So look at the life of Abraham. Okay. Genesis 24, verse one. Now Abraham was old, well-advanced in age and the Lord has blessed Abraham in all things. Okay. He was old, well-advanced in age and the Lord has blessed Abraham in all things. Okay. What does all things mean? Means all things. All right. Very simple. Bless Abraham in all things, but look at verse 34. Okay. This is the words of the servant, right? He goes in search of the bride for Isaac. So he said, so this is his testimony. He has been there. He has grown up in the household and is seen. Okay. What has happened? And he knows that God had blessed Abraham. So this is what he said. So he said, I am Abraham's servant. The Lord has blessed my master greatly and he has become great. And he has given him flocks and herds, silver and gold, male and female servants and camels and donkeys. Right?  Right? They keep eating. Have you seen? They keep grazing. You know, you need to feed them. I don't know. My grandfather used to have a farm and on that farm he had some cattle and then he had some poultry, chicken and everything. At one point he also had some pigs and all. So they were very hungry all the time. They had to be fed. Right? And they would of course chew the curd and all that. But they were hungry. You know, it actually costs quite a bit to keep these things going. Okay. Look at what he has, flocks and herds. Okay. Camels and donkeys. Right? So obviously, and he had servants serving. So when we think of Abraham, okay, Abraham is going from this place and he's going and we see, we think of him, okay, those days they went by foot. Maybe they had these animals. So we think they were probably wearing some torn clothes and, you know, in the wild, in the wilderness and, you know, we think of all that. But this completely changes the picture that he had servants, which means he supported them. He had to, you know, take care of them, male and female servants and probably their families. And so this is the picture that we have of Abraham and the testimony is that the Lord actually blessed. Okay. The Lord blessed. So God is not against money. Okay. Again, you look at Isaac. Genesis 26, 12 to 14, you know, the scripture that we were referring to earlier. Then Isaac sowed in that land and reaped in the same year a hundredfold. Okay. A hundred times. Now that's a big number. Recently I was just talking to someone who, you know, sows, what is that? Turmeric. They were growing turmeric in the land. So I was saying, okay, when do you sow? When do you think? So March and then by November they reaped and just one, you know, one yield in a year. And I was looking at that yield and all that. So here says in that same year, he reaped a hundredfold, which is a big number. Okay. And this is what we see here. So, yeah. And continued. The man began to prosper and continued prospering until he became very prosperous for he had possessions of flocks and possessions of herds and a great number of servants. So the Philistines envied him. Okay. So the people who were just against, you know, the Philistines who were against the people of God, they actually envied him. Okay. So they looked at him and said, okay, this guy has so much wealth, they envied. So who are we talking about? Isaac. Right. Then we look at Jacob. Okay. Genesis 30, 43. Again, the man became exceedingly prosperous and had large flocks, male and female servants, camels and donkeys. Okay. Then when you talk about success, we look at Joseph, Joseph 39, chapter 39 was two and four. The Lord was with Joseph and he was a successful man. And he was in the house of his master, the Egyptian. And his master saw that the Lord was with him and that the Lord made all he did to prosper in his hand. So Joseph found favor in his side and served him. This is Potiphar's house, right? Then he made him overseer of his house and all that he had, he put under his authority. And if you read the rest of the chapter, it says that he did not know, he did not consult, you know, concern himself with anything except that, okay, this is the food that I'm eating every day. That's it. Every responsibility was upon Joseph. But this is the testimony. The Lord was with him and he was a successful man. The Lord was with him and Potiphar noticed that, just like the servant who grew up in Abraham's household noticed, this is not, this is not something that is natural, it's supernatural. This is not something of man, but it's divine, right? It is of God. So he said, the Lord has blessed. And same here, it says here that the, so he saw, the master saw that the Lord was with him. Okay. So he saw that there's something different about this man. He's successful all that he had and man of integrity. So he trusted him, he's put everything under his, under his, you know, overseeing authority. Now it's, if you look at it, if you look at this thing, it's, it's very strange. Here is a Hebrew slave, right? He's a slave. And you see this man who has actually bought him as a slave, you know, having no rights to go anywhere, but he's there in the house to trust him completely and to give everything under his, under his, under his authority. Does that look strange? Yeah. You know, when somebody comes to maybe help in the house and, you know, our house, we trust them, we give them certain, you know, we trust them to some extent, you know, like the person who's helping in our house that has been there for ever since I was a bachelor, 97, I moved into that house 97 and, you know, where I used to stay. So she came to help and we moved houses some two places, three, this is the third time. So everywhere we moved, she came to help us. She saw, you know, she saw me getting married. She saw us having a daughter all seasons of life. She's come and so we can trust her.  So we trust her. Yeah.  Oh my Google Pay account. I don't know. You know, I've not done that. Right. Not to that extent. So it's, it's like that. Right. Maybe we have people helping us in our house.  So that's the kind of thing we see here. Actually giving Joseph his ATM card, his credit card, his, you know, his phone and saying, you know, yes, my Google Pay, phone pay, you use it, run the household. I just want to be concerned with whatever food I'm eating. I'm just going to come home, eat.  So it says that Joseph was very successful in that way. Right. And the Lord was with him. We're talking about prosperity, which is increase, success, growth. The Lord cost Joseph to prosper in that way. Right. And not only that, we know when we read Joseph about Joseph, we see that, okay, he goes to the prison and they're the same thing happens. Same thing happens. He is very successful. You know, he has the keys actually, literally the keys to everything and he's in charge of the prison. That is what we read in verse 23. You know, the keeper of the prison did not look into anything that was under Joseph's authority because the Lord was with him and whatever he did, the Lord made it prosper. So when we say, okay, prosperity in the prison, what is that? Right. What is prosperity in the prison? I think we need to look into how can a man prosper in the prison? Right. But that's what happened. The Lord cost him to prosper. And then we look at Job. A lot of arguments, a lot of debates we can have all night, all day. Job, he lost everything. But we look at the final chapter. This is what we see. The Lord restored Job's losses. That is chapter 42 verse 10. When he prayed for his friends, indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before. Verse 12, Now the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning for he had whatever. His net worth is mentioned there. Now from 14,000 sheep, 6,000 camels, 1,000 yoke of oxen and 1,000 female donkeys. Now that's a huge number. That's a huge number. That's a huge space. How many sheep are there in that field across? Counted, friends. Sheep or whatever. I saw one standing there. That takes up space. You look at this number. 14,000. I can't even imagine. 14,000 sheep, the kind of noise they make, the mess they make. 14,000 sheep. On top of that 6,000 camels, they must be drinking an enormous amount of water. 1,000 yoke of oxen. I've seen about 10 cattle in my father's, I mean grandfather's farm those days. Not even 10, I think it is more than, I'm less than that, probably 5 or 6. I know this kind of space they took up and the kind of care that required. He says, 1,000 yoke of oxen and 1,000 donkeys. So we see that the Lord can. The Lord does. He has done it in the Old Testament times. We see that. We see all these men whom we look at and the New Testament refers to these people time and time again. Abraham for his faith and all that. We see that the Lord actually gave them growth, gave them increase made them successful. Now there were also those who were greedy for money. Balam Gehazi Gehazi was actually under the prophet. I sometimes wonder how did he go? Did he not know that he would be found out? He's seen his master function in the prophetic the accurate details and the degree to which he would prophesy and would he not know? Well, money does that. That's the other side. Dimas, we read about Dimas that Paul is saying, he has forsaken me for the sake of the world. These were, this was more attractive to him and he has forsaken and he has gone. 2 Timothy 4 verse 10. Judas has carried himself. He betrayed the Lord for how many pieces of silver? 30. How many? Is it 30 pieces of silver? Okay. So whatever he he betrayed the Lord. Let us stray by money. So the wealth we see that God prospers man. God is not against but if wealth takes a hold of man instead of man actually using God and using what God gives in a God-honoring way. Right? Then we see that, yes, it has the potential to cause grief. It has the potential to destroy a person's life and we don't read about Dimas. We just hope that probably he was restored back. He came back can only guess. But he had a good thing but he left that and pursued that for the ways of the world. That is what we see. So we see all these people, all these men of God in the Old Testament. So what can we infer? I want to hear from you. When you look at Joseph and you look at Abraham what is it that rises in your heart? What lesson do you think? Different people based on how we have whatever we have experienced in life. So, yeah, Nikhil or Vimal? Okay, Vimal, what do you think? When you read about all this what comes to your mind? Francis, they were faithful. They were in a tough spot. They continued to be faithful and God really lifted them up. Anyone else? Shri Radha. Yeah. So they were focused with God and God really prospered then. That's a very important lesson. Anything else? Prince anything? Yeah. So the priority, whom should we trust? What should our heart be captured with? Very important. So what would you say to a businessman, Prince? See, suppose a businessman comes and asks you faster brother, Prince. How do I live my life? I need to tell my team. I need to tell my organization that this is something that we need to do. This is what we are looking at. This is our target for this year. What would you tell him? Work hard. Sorry, second one. God will bless. So the thing is this, for people who handle money for people who for day in and day out that's the inflow.  At the end of the day you count and you see, did we make a profit or loss? So what would you tell them? The thing is this, that God is not against you doing this. Let your heart not be captured by it. You focus on excellence. You focus on quality. Yes, you focus on money. You ask God, God will give ideas. If you look at actually when you look at some of the greatest inventions that came about. You see that it was divinely inspired. God gave them and thought some ideas. You do this and then they followed through and it was great success. So to be open to involve God, it's not like money is bad. So I'm not going to involve God in this. Let me just try out according to the ways of the world and hopefully it will all come through. No, involve God in this. In my business, God, you are the director. You are the director of this. What should I give away? What should I keep? What should I invest in God? You help me. You teach me. You show me God. So that's a very liberating way to do life, not to do business. Yes, there are certain standard things that we need to understand about accounting, about investing and all that. About overheads and all that. But overall, you're just inviting God into that thing. You're not keeping him outside. Right? So Pastor Prince would say work hard. Right? Involve God in the whole thing and when God brings the increase, give him glory and walk the path of righteousness. It is a difficult path. It's not easy. Right? Now walk the path of righteousness. Especially, I once heard a message called Nebuchadnezzar's Court. It was a message on Daniel for working professionals. Amazing teaching. Daniel, day in and day out, he worked in Nebuchadnezzar's Court. And what was he actually doing? He was the chief of all the magicians, the soothsayers, the guys who were involved in Wichita. He was actually overseeing or he was in charge or they were reporting to him. What do you think he would have told them? He was the one who was actually worshipping Yahweh. And he prayed looking at Jerusalem in the direction. So what do you think? How did he ... So the thing is that when he was in prison, they realized there was this man of great wisdom. Please call him out. Maybe he'll be able to interpret the writings. Such was his reputation. Right? So these are people who thrived in this kind of settings.  You know, do this inventions maybe, or maybe, you know, to help others who are in business, whatever it is. Don't be close to it. Don't be close to the idea. Oh, it's just a quick example. There were two brothers who came to Bible college years ago. And things were very small. The older guy, we knew that he was called to be a pastor. He was calling. He was very sure. He was like, yes, this is what. The other guy, somehow he was uncomfortable. He was good chap. Younger brother. Good student. But somehow he was uncomfortable. And then we looked at one particular thing. I don't know if it was finances. We were talking about how God used people in the different scenarios, you know, how people in the Bible, they were not pastors.  They were actually heads of state and administrators and so on. And then how God is not against man. And I saw his eyes going wider and wider. He was sitting in the class. He was going wider and wider. And at the end of the class, he comes and says, pastor, how can you tell like this? How can you say that when it comes to ministry, you must leave everything. Leave everything and then come just depend on God. I said, hey, that's wonderful. Sure, God calls some of us to do that. God called me to do that. I was working in a organization and that's what I've done. But the thing is this, if you look at these people whom we have looked at, God used them, God provided for them, God increased and brought them to the increase, but it was where we are. So is it drawn to be a businessman? He said, if you're called to ministry and if you're the same, then he said, what if that is your calling? So I can see that after the class, it was not change. So the season after that, he finished, graduated, went. Then I heard that he actually started something on the lines of music, the music equipment or something he started and then he was doing very well. So I think there was kind of a liberation. He said, like, God is not angry with me. God is not angry that I'm doing this. This is what I'm called to. Let me call and do that. I said, don't have any guilt. You went to Bible college, no problem. You pursue the calling, but you be sure this is what God has called you for and do it. God has not called all of us to preach and teach and if he has called us to preach and teach, we better do that with all our hearts. So for us to take that thing off, because some of you will be called to start churches and so don't preach a message condemning money, condemning people who are in business and say when you tell them to be generous and given to God, how can they condemn what they're doing daily as a livelihood? God has called them to do how can we condemn that? In fact, liberate them and give them that freedom and point them to the calling that God has called them so that they can thrive and flourish in it and they can involve God, open everything and say, God, you lead it. It's a tough path. It's a tough path, the path of righteousness especially in areas like entertainment, government, business. It's a tough path because Satan is kind of holding that. But it's a path that God is calling some of us to be in and lead the way. So we'll stop here and the next thing is that God gives material blessings and financial miracles. We're going to look at that in our next class. So any questions any questions online students also any questions that you might have we have a couple of minutes so we can address that any questions. I just want to share a little one incident about this lady whom I came to know from a very, very poor background she was actually selling porridge like what do you call kanji goes with working in the fields so such a lady she had a very powerful encounter with God came to know the Lord God used to in mighty ways. So even now she's not wealthy or anything just basically goes she's not learned she's not educated God tells her where to go what to do, what to speak she does that, what to pray for and that's it, that's her ministry lady. The thing is this, you know, at one point she found that there was this bag of, I mean this purse actually she went for a wedding, there was a purse and it was full of money full of money and she didn't know what to do and then the Lord actually told her it belongs to this lady this person who had come and they're actually searching they are very easy to give it to them so she took, gave it and that family was very very grateful so they said I want to give you this money so it was a fair amount I think it was something like 20,000 or something said you take it we are so happy we were actually searching for this and then we are so glad you take it and she took it, she prayed and then the Lord said I want you to use this money and I want you to give it to another person right so and she said yeah, yes Lord whatever you say, so 10,000 came huge amount of money, found it, gave it out of that some 10,000 I'm just saying 10,000, I don't know it must be high amount came then here the instruction you give it, she gave it right another time God took her to pray for a you know, for a politician I don't know how to mention names a politician who was actually in power, who was the chief minister she went prayed and some of the things that she prophesied word of knowledge she gave this chief minister was taken aback the chief minister said no one knows that no one was in that room how do you know this so this person said I worship the living God God reveal I share and that is what so this chief minister said you look like one of the servants in my house and yet there's so much the chief minister was like she was looking and saying looking at her and saying this is amazing so the chief minister said wait went brought one bag full of cash so this lady has not seen so much money in one place bundles and bundles of cash and all it's not just 100 rupees more than that this one said I want to give it to you the Lord speaks to us says don't take that money not even a single rupee don't take it so she turns around and says no thanks God tells me and she's living in a rented place it's a difficult life it needs a met but it's not like extravagant this money will definitely come in handy no husband the child in education held with fees, higher education everything said no and this chief minister was even more stunned how can this happen because the chief minister is used to money getting things done that you give that that guy will actually go and kill right get the job done so much money and here is one person who's refusing money and it was amazing it's just completely changed that person's perspective about the living God so the chief minister called her again the next day and says you prayed for that healing thing I could not sleep all these years but last night I was able to sleep well for the first time in so many years there was no pain I was able to sleep thank you wow so God is calling for such people God is calling for raising up such people who would not be held by money where when we say vessels, when we say instruments we are like that tap we will allow things to flow through us we allow the gifts to flow through us we allow the finances to flow through us so God can entrust even more okay so just wanted to share that okay we will stop here okay thank you everyone online students thank you we will meet again next class God bless