don't see it was not possible to recommend the removal of the existing breach in its county boundary by the Sligo Roscommon constituency to have done so would have resulted in a variance of more than 12% which the Commission considered too high. John McIntyre, editor of the Treconal Tribune. Look, there's a lot to digest breakdown here, but first and foremost, it is still, I find it extremely annoying. It's a balls, as we might say if we weren't on the radio, that a slither of Donagol, South Donagol is not going to be part of the rest of the county. Unfortunately, and the reality here is that we were just that of the population about just over 167,000, two of two, three cities would have to be much closer to that 175, 176. We weren't going to get there, but there's a bigger problem than that in that there's party team divisions in North Roscommon in the Sligo-Litrum constituency to make up the numbers. So Sligo-Litrum would be losing that Donagol vote entirely, because we were to make up those six seats. We were to get those areas north of Ballantrave, Ballishan and Bondour and back. That, if we were having this conversation yesterday, we may be calling it exactly as it is today. Anybody I talked to in the last week and there's a big, big interest in it, mainly because people are very opposed to the idea of extra seats, but most people didn't see any real change. They saw changes predominantly around Dublin, but like for Donagol, the five-seater is one that we're going to have to live with for the foreseeable future. We've had it now in 2016, 2020 and now probably next year or the year after it. And it will work. Like the ratio per TD is going to be 31,500 people. It was slightly over 32,000, so there's some minor variations in the south of the county going towards Sligo-Litrum. Yeah, we have this one TD for every 30,000 and Britain it's one for every 90,000. So obviously they were going to stick to their guns on that. That wasn't up for negotiation, I presume. It wasn't up for negotiation because it can't be under the current 1937 constitutional decision of Eamon de Valera to enshrine it in the constitution back in the day of when there was no communication whatsoever. There was hardly any travel to Dublin. The fact that it's enshrined in the constitution is between 20 and 30,000 was a minor variation either side of that. It's something that should have been changed long ago. There should have been a referendum on that. Willie O'Dee was talking about that rather belatedly last night. Michael McGrath is disagreeing with that. So we're going to have another 14 TDs come the next time. That would be utterly ridiculous. The numbers in the UK with their increased population, there's 119,000 people per MP and there's a plan there, it was upset about by Brexit. There's a plan there to reduce that by 50 because with modern communications and all of that kind of thing, 174 TDs, it leaves at 29,573 or 593 per TD, probably the lowest in the EU, but we have to live with what we have there. I think the main parties will all be breathing a slight sleight of relief here that the county is not split up again because the split would leave some rare breaches because the population base is very much towards, letter Kenny and towards, and it's shown and away from the south west. You could see areas up and determined, Kilmer Crane and almost across the Laker bridge into Rothgill, probably in up to Cranford along Moray Bay. You could see areas around Fintown coming down into Glen Swilley and Church Hill, but we haven't to worry about that this morning. All we have to worry about is that we're just in this situation where as we were previously, and as I say, the main parties from the way I look at it, Sinn Fein will be happy about it because it leaves them on track with their plan to get three seats here. It's much more difficult to get two seats in a three-seater than it is to get three seats in a five-seater if you know what I mean. Morning, Brendan. Good morning, John. Brendan Burns also with us. We'll come to you in a second. I'll tell you what, we're going to talk about what the makeup of our constituency might be post-election. There was national speculation that Donegal could be reunited, so to speak, and north and south to three-seater constituencies. I didn't get that sense on the ground. Brendan, are you surprised that the status quo has been maintained? No, not one bit. The maths always indicated if you were worth your weight in salt and doing analysis of the figures in the population of Donegal, and particularly when the commission made it known, as they did, that they weren't going to go to the upper extent of number of seats. They made it clear that they were not going to go to 181, and once it went below 178 seats, Donegal hadn't a hope of being reunited because we were well short on maths, and the only way we could be reunited into two-three-seaters would be by taking in possibly up to a quarter or half the population in litrum, and no commission would count into that. All right, okay, so John McAteer, what will be the makeup? Well, we'll go through party by party, I suppose. And then, of course, we have the 100% redress party, which certainly throws a spanner in the work for some, potentially. So, Sinn Fein got it wrong in the past. They went for three seats. It wasn't successful, and they barely scraped two. Things have changed significantly since then. Can they return three TDs in Donegal? And if so, how? The incumbents, we'd imagine, they return. But where does the third candidate come from? Who is it? It could easily be Gary Doherty again in the Van Valle, up in Europe, area, and it could be Noel Jordan. It'll be in and around those two candidates, I would imagine. Given that they have a block of 45% of the vote, they're 34. Does Gary Doherty have the profile for it, John? And Gary's a fine gentleman, as is Noel, as is everyone in this county, pretty much. But strategically, that's what failed the last time. Does he have enough co-support there as a starting point? If he sees a wee bit north in the county, in my opinion? Yeah, well, he's in the Van Valle, Sturnauer area. He would be well enough based. I think the last time he ran was just a bit premature. Sinn Fein had never voted for two or three prior to that. And it was a learning experience for them to convince their voters that there was a second and a third vote there. And it actually did backfire on them. Things have moved on quite a bit for them since then. They didn't have 45% at that point. Fein, Valle, and Finnegear were both much, much stronger. There is a sentiment running in all the opinion polls, as Brendan points out there, on the day that you weren't done low. There's a sentiment running in the opinion polls in favour of Sinn Fein and its ongoing and its increasing. Probably the reason for that there is that the three-party coalition has not seemed to be serving the people to any great extent. It's just sort of a steady as she goes. We have loads of money. It's not evident on the ground. It's not evident in childcare. It's not evident in the health system. It's not evident. The price of fuel is going up five, six or seven cents per litre this weekend. We have a different dynamic politically in Donegal, and it probably is going to transcend itself nationally as well, because nobody would be watching these results more closely than Shinners this morning. They'd have been worried about North Kerry there. Pat Daly would be hoping to bring in a second seat. I don't think he's going to seat Danny Healy-Rey, but there are high hopes of a second seat there. Likewise, across those Dublin constituencies, there would be high hopes there of extra seats. Yeah, for sure. There's a few interesting elements in that that we'd get to. But in terms of a Sinn Fein third candidate, if she can be persuaded and I don't know what the situation is at the moment, I mean, the logic that for me, if I were saying to them, you need to get Cora Harvey on that ticket. And that's no disrespect to Noel or Gary, but there's an awful lot of boxes being ticked there. And a great speaker, a very strong, I would say a very, very strong candidate that I would see if they wanted to be successful, the person that they probably need to get in there. What do you think, Brendan Byrne? Well, there's a few factors that are going to ultimately decide for Sinn Fein. One, they're going to have to do some polling to see how strong the Micah candidate is impacting on them. And once they've weathered that storm, they'll decide strategically where they're putting the candidate. And I would have to agree a three candidate strategy with Cora Harvey as the new addition to that would be by far the strongest Sinn Fein ticket because of her location. There's also the gender balance. It's very difficult for any party in a five seater now to run three male or three female candidates for that matter. So there has to be gender balance there. But in terms of Cora Harvey and I served with her on the council, she's a formidable candidate. She's very well located near the Twin Towns. And the other thing is in a five seater, the influence of the Finn Valley area once you have the right candidate is going to be significant because there's population growth there. And of course, no Jordan wouldn't have the benefit of anything south of Lahi Balantra effectively as well too. He's from Mount Charles, which you know, the natural, the natural, his natural hinter would be perhaps more southerly than westerly or northwesterly. John, what do you think of Park, Pierce, Cora and listen if Park were to struggle in the show? Yeah, it could be the ideal ticket. Now, Cora Harvey has remained very much as you know, Brent, outside of politics at every turn of the road ever since she stood down. Where she goes now, what her career prospects are. These are all issues that you'll have to consider her family. We're assuming here that if you're going to run three candidates, one of them at least will have to be a female on the gender balancing. And you can't avoid that. If it's not going to be Cora Harvey, probably it would have to be, well, I don't know how they would try to get around the regulations by running three of the one gender. I would see a female candidate. All right, for Sinn Féin. And I don't think Marie Therese, I'm not sure, I'm not sure if she would be, I mean, she'd be very good. I'm not sure she'd be interested. I don't know. I don't know Marie Therese personally about that. But just probably probably probably been seen, been, been based and unload living much too close to Pierce. It would have to be up and that's turn our area are south of the gap more up towards Donegal Town, more into your area, Brendan. All right, Brendan, Finafore, what do they do? Because they are in a dilemma in terms of, I suppose really how to get Charlie McConnel back in really, rather than any aspirations beyond that. Tactically, how do they go about doing so? Well, as you know, I can no longer speak for Finafore, but I would imagine Finafore. Now you're even, you can speak even more freely now. I would imagine Finafore are considering this morning what exactly are they going to do, but obviously now it's quite clear that they're going to have to run two candidates, one in the Old Southwest and Charlie in the Northeast. So the question you're really asking me is who is the candidate that's going to come out of the Southwest? And I think the candidates that would be looking at that position are of course Michael Nocton, who's very much south in the constituency. You have Antony Molloy, who's Ardra Glenty's based, and you cannot rule out Pat the Cope Galler, who's probably the most busy of all. Yes, but the person, if it were me, that would be most least in favour of Pat the Cope running would be, if I were he, Charlie McConnelog. Yes, well, I would have to say Charlie would probably be the best man to answer that. But the reality is, and I thought myself when I was director of elections in 2011, if you get the strategy wrong, and that was when Mary Cotland lost her seat, the strategy itself does more damage to you than the change in the swing within the electorate. So Finafore are critical crossroads here, where they need to do some hard thinking about what strategy they're going to put in place. Charlie alone as a single candidate won't work. Charlie plus a weaker candidate will not work. Two strong candidates, Charlie plus another, may well not work either. So I believe you're going to have, depending on what Fingale do, depending on what Sinn Fein are going to do, you're going to have to put two strong candidates in that have good name recognition, good geographical location. The minister, McConnelog, is taking his granted as being a candidate. So the choice is in the south, do you put Pat the Cope Gallagher, do you put Anthony Malloy or Michael Noctis? But you put in Pat the Cope Gallagher, if you want your best chance to win a seat, he's seen by many still as a TD, even though he's not elected. If you've tracked people, they'll say he's the busiest TD in the county. But that would perhaps put him as the number one candidate ahead of Charlie McConnelog with everything that's going on, knowing in terms of popularity potentially, will he outpole Charlie McConnelog? Well, popularity in itself won't win a seat for you. It helps to win a seat definitely. But if you look at the last general election, much to everyone's surprise, the whole west of Donegal voted in a greater ratio for peer starry and rather than splitting the vote evenly between Pat and Pierce, and that's what left Pat the Cope out. If that were to happen again, then you would have a repeat of what occurred in 2020. So even though Pat is a very strong candidate and he's flat out working in the entire constituency and knows and appreciates that, there's risks either way. But I suppose if you're asking me a direct question and you always do, eventually is fine, we're going to repeat that. Who's the stronger candidate? Of course it is because like a seven and a half thousand votes sitting there. Where else would you get it? Fianna Farr could count themselves very lucky to have a candidate. Is it going to be an age issue here? Or is he going to come up against that? Why should he? Like if you're sitting on seven and a half thousand votes and they're not going to be utilised, like Brendan, you will know that a big percentage of that seven and a half thousand votes are very personal votes for Pat the Cope, probably about four thousand of them. Are you going to jettison that? Right, you're not going to jettison that in favour of running Michael Norton or Anthony Malloy. They're both councillors, but they're probably not as well positioned or as well known as Pat the Cope. Anthony Malloy definitely from football. Michael Norton, those of us in the media know Michael pretty well, he's a good communicator and he's all of that. But has he that strength to get up anywhere close to five, six thousand? I don't think so. I don't think any other councillor is. Again, he is very south Donegal and maybe if the county had been reunited, his chances might have been more favourable. So John, how do, like what is the strategy here? Is the strategy if you're Fianna Fall to get Charlie McConnelog back in or to get a Fianna Fall person back in? And in both of those scenarios, how do you do it? The strategy, first of all, is to hold that seat. If they lose at Donegal, they'd be in the worst position in the way in 2011. It's just going to be as simple as that. They can't afford to lose Donegal. Let it be McConnelog or Pat the Cope, they just simply have to get one seat because they are running at a very low ebb across the polls. Nothing exciting is happening to them. That's going to increase that anytime soon. But at the end of the day, McConnelog should be a strong contender. They're in a position of having a seat. It's very, very hard to unseat a sitting TD, especially a minister. And let's look at it like this year. Charlie McConnelog has been firing money around every peer in Harbour and Slipway and Donegal. I see it down at Port Salon. They're going to flat out the spender and a half, a million and a half euro there, and up around Greencastle. There's massive amounts of money being spent on the Marine. And now, whether he's in favour of what the farmers are not, it doesn't look good from that farmers' opinion poll a couple of weeks ago. He might fare better with Donegal, but that's going to be offset by the Meike controversy. He's been seen as being far too ineffective on Meike, and that's not a personal attack on him or anything like that. It's just a reality talk to anybody that has a Meike issue. They're not going to vote McConnelog. So the question is, who are they going to vote for? Is there going to be a Meike candidate in there? There's going to be any inroads? Right, well, we're going to talk about that, because I do have to take a break, and hopefully both of you can stay with me. So does McConnelog, is Charlie McConnelog re-elected, John? No, not yet. Unless something drastically changes, does Charlie McConnelog re-elected? I would have to say, in Charlie's defence, he's a formidable campaigner. Now I know he's at his lowest ebb, because he had the Meike debacle, and it's the farmers' issues, but he's a formidable campaigner. Who would have predicted in 2011 that he would have taken a seat against the tide? Well, no one did actually. No one was predicting a seat at all for Finafall. So I certainly wouldn't write Charlie McConnelog off, and I think he needs to certainly focus on the constituency. I think he needs to focus on what he does well. He's a very good people's person, so he needs to get on the doorstep, and he needs to get out there. Blake, you know, Brandon, as a senior minister, you're aware of the constituency so much. Europe is calling. National politics is calling. The Cabinet is calling. Every other constituency in the country that has a farming vote is calling, so it's not that easy. Joe McHugh learned that the last time he just barely scripted. Well, so Parry McLaughlin almost lost that too, because he might not like this and not but there was a sense that he was, you know, to sort of focus on what was happening in Dublin or elsewhere. So you have to be really careful with that stuff. That was 2016 when he lost a seat. He was more switched in the last time as I say, it's been a big learning curve for Sinn Féin, and it's going to be a learning curve for everybody again because Féin, Fáil and Finagéil will have to hold those seats. Thomas Pringham will be a fairly certain. Well, you John, I have to take a break. We're going to go to Finagéil, the Viking Canada independence. How are your horses there? Get a cup of coffee in you. We'll be back in a minute, say what you want to, Brandon. We'll be back with you in just a couple of minutes. All right, you're very welcome back to the 9 till noon show. A caller says, get Pat the Colt back. He's still done so much for us, and other Councillor Gary Daherty has done huge work for his community. He may do it more quietly than others, but he's always available and always helping to solve issues locally. I've absolutely no doubt of that, but it's about you have a big county to sort of resonate with. Brandon, the one thing if I was trying to come up with a strategy, a party, if they were inclined to ask, which they weren't and hopefully don't, would be Finagéil. What do Finagéil do? Because they've arguably got it wrong in the last election. Joe McHugh, I think, is even with the defective concrete issue, I think he remains relatively popular, but he's not for running again. So, Brandon, what do Finagéil do? Take a hard reality check and sit down with Joe McHugh. I think if they have any fighting chance of retaining the seat in Donninggall, it's with Joe McHugh. The transformation in Joe McHugh and John McHugh mentioned it from the time he was minister to present is phenomenal, and he's connected extremely well with the electorate. So, Finagéil needs to take a reality check there and sit down with Joe and have that conversation with him, because I still believe Joe McHugh is their only hope of retaining the seat in a five-seater Donninggall. It's very hard to see any other pathway back that doesn't include Joe McHugh and John McHugh here. It's impossible, but then again Joe McHugh has kept stating and re-stating that he's gone from politics. He's outside the parliamentary party. It's easily been popular when you're on everybody's side. If he's inside the parliamentary party, he's got to organise meetings. Finagéil isn't this array across Donninggall from what I'm learning from talking to their grassroots. Finagéil is probably not much better, except this is the difference here. Finagéil has 12 strong councillors who hold and bind the organisation together. That's not happening in Finagéil. Finagéil needs a new beginning. They need new candidates. If it was Joe McHugh, can you, could he be, could he be certain of holding that seat? Remember that as a senior minister the last time he struggled, you know, a way down there on half a quota, and that probably hasn't changed. The make of vote is probably not going to go to McHugh, because he was there during the period of McHugh, and he was there back in the government until last year. So, like, it's very easy been popular, as I say, Brendan, when you're, say, foot bliss and fancy free, you haven't got a parliamentary party meetings. You haven't got to constituency meetings. In fact, you're outside of constituency meetings. And I mean, as a consequence of Joe McHugh's decision to remain out of the party, the probability here is that Finagéil has also lost ground and it has definitely lost votes. And I mean... But if you were in the party, we have seen it in the past and in this county where you can successfully ride two horses, you know, where you can be within the party and be, you know, be popular locally. And then you're sort of a kind of a different person on the national stand. When you're heading to an election, say, it's a year away or whatever it's going to be, you have to be very active and very proactive on the ground. And that can only come to your top representatives getting out and meeting the grassroots. That's not happening in Finagéil. It probably isn't happening in Finagéil to any great extent, because the grassroots don't matter anymore. You know, we've been chucking it in there as to what impact the 100% redress party might have. Ali Farron is PRO of the 100% redress party. Are you going to allow me, Ali, to speculate about the general election? So you're going to say to me that we'll see how the council elections go first? Well, we're going to... As I said to you one other time, we're going to walk first. So we're concentrating on getting a party set up primarily at the moment. And we're far from there. But we're working on being ready for the county council elections next June. So that's a lot to do yet. We can get councillors in place first. Of course. And I'll ask you about your targets in that regard in a moment. But would you have preferred to have seen two, three seaters? That might have been better in terms of returning a candidate in a general election? Or can you see it also doable in this five-seater setup? I think it might be more doable for us than a five-seater. But numbers, it can change very, very fast. We hope to be very, very strong in coming out of any shown and letter Kenny for the general election if we run a candidate. And like there's most of North Stonygall is affected, Mulford and all is affected badly by defective concrete blocks. So look, we should be able to chance it's a democratic country and where we should be entitled to run or run, you know, have a party that can speak for the people that's affected by this. So do you see any sitting councillors switching to your party or any conversations going in that regard? Not as of yet. Okay, but it's not being ruled out. We're not going to speculate on names. We'll have to wait and see. Look, there's so much to do and so much to build on first. And when we're ready to go, then we can talk. And let's be fair, nobody's going to jump ship at this stage until we have a form in Dublin and like we know things don't get happened too fast in Dublin. So a simple rubber stamp in Dublin is taking nearly two months. Yeah. And let me ask you, is there a target for council seats? And I know it's really early days and I don't sort of want to and if the answers no, the answers no. But I mean, do you look at sort of Milford letter Kenny in the show and say, well, could we do one one each two weeks? I don't know. Is there a? Yeah, yes, we're talking about running people in each of them areas, but getting the right candidate that's suitable for us, that is, you know, is what we that ties into our way of thinking. And our party's ethos will be our, you know, there's lots of good strong people out there that probably haven't even thought about running yet this candidate as a candidate. And we want to be speaking to them in the near future. But we're not just right ready yet. And that's the only problem. We're not ready yet. No, and that is perfectly fine. And that is why I do appreciate you. You're coming on with us, Ali, and talk about it. As you say, it's very early doors and waiting for that stamp. But I think these will be players in the next election. Thanks, Ali, for your time. So how big a role and of course, I understand Ali's focus being on the locals, but let's jump forward to the general election. John McAteer, how big of a role do you think a 100% redress party candidate will have in this election? Difficult to know that one there because like, it's the most adversarial constituency in the whole of Ireland, you know, every, every party and everybody within that party, they're fighting separate campaigns. It doesn't matter what else is going on in every other constituency. Donegall will be very heartily contested. Sinn Féin shouldn't be bitten for three seats. Fina Fall will be thinking of holding on to one and hope on the outside to get a second one. Thomas Springer will be a favourite with me. He has a solid base of 5,000, 6,000 votes there. Popular man there since 2011 through 2016 and 2020. So he has a lot of credibility built up there. Fina Gale probably is in a more difficult position than any of the other party. So that's going to add a lot of intensity. They have just one councillor and then he's shown, isn't it, in Johnny McGinnis. Jim McCavanus and Larry Kenny, Martin Harley is in stern horror. And beyond that, they don't have an awful lot going for them. So as we talked earlier on there, they don't have a figurehead leading them in the constituency since Joe McHugh doesn't have the party whip and he doesn't have to go to party meetings and he doesn't have to get out organising. So who's going to do it? I know that they have an area organiser based up and probably outside the county. I don't know to what extent that's playing into improving their lot. I'm just not seeing Fina Gale getting out of that. Can't believe this hour's going in so quick. Brendan, what role do you think a 100% redress party candidate might have? And will their message resonate the further they move sort of, you know, south and west of Letter Kenny? No, it won't once you go through the gap unless they can mount a considerable campaign and you can't underestimate that the would because it is a very motive issue. But if you're talking about a Mikey candidate, you must look at where the impact of a Mikey candidate is going to be. And that's, of course, going to be on Charlie McConnel Oak. It's going to be on Patrick McLaughlin. So therefore the whole third seat for Sinn Féin possibly is in jeopardy because of Mikey. The only Fina fall seat may be in jeopardy because of Mikey. So that kind of addresses the issue that we should be looking at. And we talked about it earlier, the strategies of all the parties and the strategic decision that take where they put the candidates, it's the party that makes the mistake that's going to lose the seat. And this is going to be a highly strategised election. So the party that's best organised on the ground will by default or other get the bonus. And of course, then to John McIntyre, there's going to be other strong candidates. Mary T. Sweeney has aimed to backing her. She's going to be running in the elections, I am sure. And her message will resonate with an all hot of people. Yes, yes, yes, high profile. But there's probably going to be a farmers candidate from what we're gathering as well, up on the show. We talked there about, you can look at this and sectionalise it to come out of any shown that Kenny and Mulford, you're going to need the guts of 7000 votes, because they make a campaign is going to dissipate the size of the gap and long before that. But it's not beyond the bounds of reality that that can be achieved, but it's going to be achieved at a big cost there, both fishing feint and to Fianna Fahl. I'm not too sure exactly to what extent the making campaigners have put a strategy in place, because you wouldn't have to organise in every single area if you're going to get votes. That is a big ask. But they are the most impressive in terms of, I think that's going to be very important for them is social media and their reach on that and how they can organise in that way and how they strategise it, because you know what, it could be a protest vote for some as well. But you know, like at the same time, make is a huge following, it's a huge campaign, because it's an independent, free-spirited organisation that doesn't have a political base. But once you politicise an issue, then you could see splits developing there, because not everybody that has a mic in their home is going to be a make-it candidate, or is not just going to be a make-it-voter. That's a big, big issue. Councillor Jack Moray of Sinn Féin, your reaction to the Electoral Commission, do you think it makes sense to retain Donegal as a five-seater? No, I think it's a very disappointing decision. I think Donegal, since partition, I think has been the forgotten county in favour of the Eastern seaboard, and particularly Dublin, and the population of the Dall is weighted on its favour. I think we could have done with an extra voice in the Dall. For Donegal, I think we should have taken back in the likes of Bodyshan and Bondorn, completed the county-bound race, divided into two, three-seaters. I don't think they brought that extra voice for the county when it's needed more than ever. You're talking about the effect of block crisis, like if we had that extra voice in favour of Donegal fighting in Dublin, I think it would make that struggle a bit easier. I think it's an opportunity missed today, particularly for those who wasn't Donegal in the north-west. All right, I wish I had more time, Jack, but unfortunately I don't. Thanks very much for that comment. Both of you, finally and briefly, Thomas Pringle, you'd be confident of him retaining his seat? Yeah, quite confident. I would say, from this insight, I would say it as Sinn Fein battling for three Thomas Pringle. It's hard to say that anybody's a chef bet, because I know it's the thing. Thomas Pringle would be in there, as always. He's the most transfer-friendly candidate. Right, so three Sinn Fein, one independent. Where does the last seat go? You'd have to toss a coin on that one. Well, no, you don't have a coin. You've got your head, John. I would call that profane of all, actually. Pat the Cope Galahar or Charlie McConnelogue? If Pat the Cope's running, I'd call that for the Cope. Okay, Brendan, would you say three Sinn Fein? Yeah, I see three Sinn Fein and three candidates then for the remaining two seats. If you look at 2016 and 2020, and you can't go and ignore the facts of that, Thomas Pringle survived on both those elections with a sizeable transfer from Sinn Fein. If Sinn Fein run three candidates, which they are going to, where does that transfer that he has lived on in 2016? It elected him 2020. It got him over the line again. If Sinn Fein tightened their vote, they'll take the three seats, and the other two seats will be between Thomas Pringle, a Sinn Geil candidate and a Sinn Fein candidate. With possibly a Sinn Fein organised themselves, they could, by default, possibly have two in the run. Brendan Burns, thank you very much indeed.  John McAdu, thank you.


Good afternoon everybody and welcome to Unfiltered. Pastor, welcome as usual as always. Welcome. Pastor, on Sunday I wanted to speak a little bit about angry pulpit, angry church. On Sunday you were referencing it. Instead of a church that or pulpit that has the congregation walking out in faith and joy, there can be a tendency for those who have an angry pulpit that leaves an angry church when people are really lost and need Jesus, what would you say the fruit of an angry pulpit and or an angry church? Well the fruit of an angry pulpit has already been said it's an angry church. Today we're living in a time when I think that we're especially prone to angry churches because excuse me if you have an angry pastor, a pastor who is angry over the way the world is and a pastor who perhaps is fantasized that the world has never been as bad as it is right now then naturally he's going to rail against what he sees as being the wrongs of the world and in doing so he's going to he's going to gather a crowd of people who also feel angry and so the fruit of an angry pulpit will always be a group of angry people and then they go out into the world and before you know it they're wanting to argue with everybody they do they start at arguments with people they they begin to become self-righteous because they have the inside knowledge of how things should be things aren't that way we know why they're not that way and you're not listening to us when we tell you why they're that way therefore now they're angry at them I think there is a time for for a righteous anger of course when we see what's taking place in in our nation today when we not even in our nation alone when we see what takes place in our in our state or in our cities our counties there is a place for a for a righteous indignation there is a place for us to say this is not how it should be and a place for us to speak out against it I mean I was sharing just as you mentioned just this last Sunday out of Acts chapter 2 when after the Holy Spirit had fallen upon the 120 disciples and people began to mock and the apostle Peter had gone out to preach he had said and I mentioned this recently he had said save yourself from this perverse generation so I looked that up I wanted to know what are you referring to and he was basically referring to the generation as it is Jesus himself it's spoken concerning that generation in this way he had said this is a wicked and an adulterous generation so so he was speaking of the generation or age of his day but it's also an age that we share in now it's an age that we live in which is perverse it's twisted it's crooked and so when a pastor comes up and and points out those things you've got on the one hand in in the church you've got unbelievers you've got people who live carnal lives you know very often trying to walk both with the spirit and the flesh you have a variety you have you have believers who are growing and you have mature you know you have a mix so it's going to affect people differently so if you're always angry about what's going on you're going to have a group of people who are growing angry along with you probably in agreement with you maybe even shouting out their approval of what you're saying to the point where you begin to think that you are really making a difference because you have a crowd of people who agree with you and yet when you look at what's taking place in in Acts 2 right after he says save yourself from this this perverse generation he with many other words continues to speak and then 3,000 people are saved so they were convicted they were convinced and as a result the church grows by 3,000 people in one message and then you see what's taking place after that which is abiding in the in the apostles doctrine and prayer and breaking of bread and and and and in apostles okay now I got myself apostles doctrine and breaking of bread and prayers and fellowship those four elements are taking place and then other things are taking place amongst amongst them to the point where people begin to to be aware of that this this phenomena has happened right and they now added to the church but it doesn't indicate to us that he keeps telling them that they're perverse or and it doesn't seem to to follow that he starts telling everybody else you know we'll just keep that same message going you know in chapter three what you end up with is you end up with them going to pray and having the opportunity of seeing God in miraculous in a miraculous way heal a crippled man and you see the gifts of the spirit exercised you know during that time and so I would say that if anybody had the absolute right to be outraged and angry it's obviously our savior and yet our savior sent us out to a world that is perverse and twisted is crooked and in need but he didn't tell me to be mad at it and he told me to win the lost and on the one hand I get fueled by by my opposition to and abhorrence of the evil that's so widespread and so accepted we do speak against the darkness we are the light but at the same time if I'm not careful it's very easy for me to begin to actually be angry at people in general there are some people that you reserve anger for people who are willfully destructive hurtful harmful hurting children perhaps and and things things of that nature there's a place for an indignation but there is no place for me to to to not think that they should be saved or to pray for them and I don't know John I I just feel that we're living in a very mixed up time I really do and the more you rail against the evil as it is you're going to have people who are going to join you in railing and it and it does attract a crowd of people it can not always sometimes it pushes people away who wants to be around angry people all the time you know the proverb says that we're not to have friendship with an angry man lest we learn his ways and and I think sometimes that pastors can think that they are righteously angry when in fact they're just angry so yeah I was talking about that that's well you know that because I'm as we wrap up here I'm wondering what model did Peter give the model that he was angry no three thousand people were added to the church and then they went on and they started ministering to people where was Jesus really ever angry and given a message was he turning over the tables in a righteous anger yes so I I was thinking about this as developing this question is is where where did the anger originate was it something that is taken on by someone who may be self-righteous and saying this is the only way because I don't see Jesus ever responding Paul maybe Peter in bringing correction in some ways Paul the first Corinthians but he wasn't angry so I'm wondering where the origination came the origination very often is flesh is flesh you know be angry and sin not it's not that we don't get angry but we need to restrain ourselves from doing things that are sinful and so you know there are there are times that you see Paul show a flash of anger like when he was he was struck in the face and on occasion the high priest was speaking to him and you know he he's god will strike you you whitewash to him I mean you see a flash of his a righteous anger because of the violation of the law in that way so there are times when you might see a portion of a personality revealed but even so when he they said you don't do you rail against the high priest that way he said I didn't even know he's a high priest you know so there's a lot of by the way there's a lot of comments as to related to that because Jesus is the high priest that man no longer is but even so he was he was acting in defiance of what a high priest is actually supposed to to act like an also you can really develop a lot related to that but you do see him rebuking you do see him speaking forcefully in that way and it was an injustice I just I'm not convinced with the average that the average Christian has the spiritual maturity to be able to to say no this is pure righteous indignation I just the average Christian that I encounter and again I'm in ministry I encounter people who are believers but who don't necessarily exercise self-control or the other elements of the fruit of the spirit and sometimes they are just angry for angry sake so yeah I really believe that that the people ought to walk out of the the walls of a church service edified encouraged given hope in and exercising faith in the other things and and learn to love the world that's that's going to go to hell without the gospel of Jesus pastor thank you so much for sharing that it was something I've been thinking about in and what enrages the fruit and you're able to explain to us that there is no fruit it's just anger and self-righteousness and and so with that I want to invite our church family for our services tomorrow evening as you're continuing to take us through the book of Romans and and afterwards we're celebrating communion as a church family which is always special we have worship we have the word and we have communion so I want to invite you guys to come out and join us and a reminder that Sunday we have our services at 8 30 and 10 45 good opportunity to come in come in and join us as well as we continue to you're teaching us through the power of the Holy Spirit uh it was we're in acts last week and we have something coming up for this Sunday as well so look forward to having you come out pastor again thank you for sharing with us thank you guys for tuning in and God bless you


This definitely says designing, and for some of you who know me, I do not describe myself in any way, shape, or form as a designer. In fact, very much not a visual designer, and it's not what people signed up for. So I've been lying to you, but I think really the thing is we need to find out what is designing. So is this designing? This is kind of what we expect, where all of our minds go when we start talking about design. We do all of our work in Photoshop, spit out a static picture, and throw that over the wall. So is this designing? This is every human factors engineer's favorite example of poor, poor design. Once you have painted yourself into this corner though, your next design solution is to make that little push sign as big as you possibly can. So I would call that some form of designing, bad designing maybe. Is this designing? Yeah, I'd say so. Traffic calming is an effective method of reducing injuries and fatalities on roads. This is called a snet down. What happens when it snows is you can tell everywhere the cars have been, and so this tells us what areas of the road we don't actually need to have as road, which can be reclaimed for pedestrians or general traffic calming. So it gives us a lot of insight into safety. Now another thing that might be curiously called designing is sound design. We've got somebody in the back. I would like to thank all of our wonderful tech people pandering to the crowd. So the way something sounds inside any one of these setups, any one of these shows is we need to make sure that it actually comes through and is communicated to you. So yes, all of this is designing. Good designing like good engineering is done to solve problems. If you're not solving a problem, why are you doing it? So why is it we never seem to design for accessibility? My name is Nathan Hammond, and just like every one of you in this room, I design and consume interfaces for humans, and you can reach me at any one of those places.  And what constitutes good design for one person isn't necessarily good design for another person. And sometimes what separates good design from great design is actually achieving universal design. And so this is the Stokey trip-trap. It's a really, really, really cool, interesting chair. So universal, you say, pfft, not possible.  Sounds like compromises. What about all of the edge cases? What about all of the things that make me a unique and special snowflake? In order to be a great designer, you need to design for that, too. And so I keep using this word design. Design is this process that we have to go through to actually solve problems. So if we're designing for accessibility, then we need to just make sure that we address accessibility as part of the design process. And that's not something you randomly do. It's not something that magically happens after a whole archive of PSDs gets thrown over a wall. And then magically somehow happens between that point and it appearing on a server because you just ran SCP. And it's not something that can be captured as a line item in some generic spreadsheet and then address for the first time three quarters of the way through the project. This is real, y'all. I have been on projects that have exactly like that. In fact, how many of you have? Yep. So it comes about three quarters of the way through the project. The project manager comes in and says, great. I'm really excited about this. What are we going to do to make it accessible? Well, at that point, honestly, you're not. You've kind of gone too far. And you're going to bolt on a whole bunch of things and just hope and pray that it works out exactly as you would expect. And you can ask Dr. Frankenstein how that worked out for her monster. So in order to actually achieve accessibility, you need both cheesy stock photography. And you need to address all of the design constraints as early in the process as you feasibly can. Now, that's not something that you can just throw your hands up in the air and say, the process is broken. It's not my problem anymore. It's not that simple. We need to actually solve the problems. That's what we are paid to do. And so, well, most of us. So human problems are difficult to solve. Budget problems are difficult to solve. This is the House Financial Committee. And I can't imagine what their life is like. And I'm really glad it's not mine. But I can talk politics with you guys later if you want. So how many of your companies actually have a budget set aside for accessible experiences? I count four hands, five hands, five out of all of you. That's a very, very small number. So what are we going to do about that? We've got budget problems. We've got human problems. But when it comes to computers, it's exactly, exactly what we tell them to do. And no more. And that's where we know that the human side of the process is broken. We, Emberanios, in particular, we should aim to make our tool set accessible by default. Horizon Tide lifts all boats and Ember's Convention over configuration gives us the leverage we need to make that happen. And so it's my privilege now to introduce my good friend and colleague, Jenison Asuncion, who is going to actually walk through a demo of a very simplistic application to actually give you a sense of what things are going to sound like. And so I'm going to set that up now. And here's microphone. Hi. Hi. Step back. Really, I'm not faking. OK, is that on? OK. Hey, everyone. Well, Nathan's setting up. I'm really excited to be here. I've been using screen readers for probably longer than some of you have been around. So, but I'm going to be, as I'm doing the demonstration, I'm going to be playing the role of the average Joe or Joanne out in, oh, South Sandwich or somewhere like that, who doesn't know from single-page apps. They don't know from, they just want to go online and use any website that any of you folks would want to use. So we're going to do a couple of demos. There's a way to shut all of those things up. Just really quickly, for any of you folks who are going to start playing with this after. OK, for any of you folks who are going to be playing with this on your own later after you get inspired by wanting to check out accessibility, you can turn on on your Macs, because you're all Mac users, I know. Command F5 turns voiceover on. Command F5 turns voiceover off. And please, whatever you do, if you're going to be doing any testing or experimenting, do it with Safari, because there's a little bit of different experiences if you're going to use voiceover with Chrome. And the lion's share, I would say 99% of any blind user using a Mac is going to be using voiceover with Safari. So if you want to be doing some real testing, we'll do that. So which one do you have up here? The good one? Static one. OK. So we're going to go around, like I said, pretending I'm Joe. I'm going to look around this page. OK, so I'm going to start moving around the screen. Again, let's pretend that this is the first time I'm coming here. So I'm going to want to look around to see what's there. The one thing you need to understand is, as you folks look at the screen and can I, here's the links and stuff, I'm doing the same thing with my cursor keys. I'm able to explore without firing links or anything unless I want to. So I'm just going to start looking around. OK, so there's a home link. Messages. OK, I'm going to stop there for a second just to demonstrate that I was just going around like link by links. But if I want to, right now I've just pulled up a list of links like this. So I can move around on the screen by links, by headings. OK, by links and headings. Another cool thing I can do if I wanted to is I can, I think I just went out of my, can you get me back in? OK, so let me, let me just fire one of these links and let you folks can see what the expected behavior is. Here we go, I'll go to messages. OK, so I'm going to activate this by hitting the space bar and holding down my voice over keys. So what it's doing right now is it's loading, it's loaded into the, into voice over what the screen looks like. But notice as soon as I click the link, it actually started speaking. And so I knew that I'd done something. So that's, that was the expected behavior. Nathan, did you want to bring up the other site? So, Don't try this at home. OK, here we go. So again, picture me, Joe, I'm at home. I just loaded this web page. OK, so I want to check my news feed. I thought I just did that. Let me do that again. Kind of confusing. I clicked the link and I expected it to start talking. Kind of frustrating. Maybe did I do this wrong? Let me try this. Oh, OK. Let me try a different link, maybe. So at this point, I'd be ready to just dump out of the site and maybe grab a drink or something. Because as you noticed, it just, it didn't do anything like it did last time. So Nathan is going to walk you through how to make that better. But I just want to hammer home the point that for the average blind person, going to a site, there's a set of expected behaviors. And so, obviously, you saw I activated the feed link. I tried doing that. Nothing happened. Just imagine if you clicked with the mouse and you just, nothing, the screen just stayed exactly the same. OK? That's, you know, as someone who's been using a screen reader a long time, I know to basically expect not every website's going to work anyway. So I know to look around at things. But the average person would dump out of this website totally. So if this was a commerce site, you just lost some business. OK? So that's a plain vanilla EmberJS application. If none of you have done anything with your applications focusing on accessibility, that's what your app sounds like right now. So I'm going to turn off voiceover. And let's go ahead and get back into keynote. And what? There. All right, so now, again, you can magically not see what I'm talking about. So clearly not perfect. We've got a lot of things we can learn from that. So first off, screen readers start reading from the top of the page on each load. And dynamically updating the DOM without providing any information about what's going on results in nothing, literally nothing. Now, your markup's still important. You saw that as we were moving through, we actually hit links, and those links were there. And that's a strong virtue of Ember relying on real HTML. So it's not all bad news. We've done a lot of things right that give us the ability to go back and actually fix some of our underlying problems. And other things like ARIA are still important. So we've seen what it's like when we've built an inaccessible Ember application. That's clearly not good enough. And so what we really need to do is we need to figure out how to be accessible by default. We need to provide hooks and constructs that make it more difficult to be inaccessible than it is for us to be accessible. That follows with Ember's convention over configuration and with making it easier to do things the right way than it is to do things the wrong way. So let's dive in on a case study called page loading that impacts literally every single Ember application. So we've identified a problem. And so we expect as a user of screen readers that we have this certain set of behavior. So let's come up with a solution. We've got all of these goals for an end user of a screen reader. This includes making sure it reads from the top. We need to make sure that it follows the patterns of respect. We need to make it clear to the user that the application state has changed. Then we've got all of these goals as a Ember author as well. And we have to work with current idiomatic Ember code. We want to make it backwards compatible so that we don't have to land this in Ember 3.0. We should be accessible by default. The API needs to not suck. And we need to make sure that it's extensible because I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. We're not perfect. And we're going to miss some edge cases. So if we actually follow things very similar to the extensible web manifesto, we don't end up with application cache.  It's really not that difficult. So what we're going to do is we're going to start going through the process of how we can solve this problem. So we'll take an inventory of our Ember tool set. We've got all of these primitives available to us. We've got routers. We've got transitions. We've got routes, templates, outlets, HTML bars, which is a beautiful gift. And all of a sudden, we go, hm, you know what? I've got it. Enlightenment. We could focus on an outlet the moment it has shown up on the page. And it'll work, right? Well, maybe. You don't really know yet.  Empty set. So yeah, me either. But I had this idea of what I wanted to accomplish. So now it's time to check to see if it's actually feasible. So what do I know about screen readers? Well, first off, it's exactly like the browser wars. You remember how you had to make a change in Netscape to make it work in IE, and then you had this random weird behavior style sheet to make IE play nicely with, oh gosh, yes, all of those things. How many of you grew up in the 2000s and did that? So you actually have a ton of latent skills in this space. So really glad to have you. And so little other facts about screen readers. And also, here's some trivia about Ember. Bonus points if you know why any of these decisions were made. And then you will be made a core team member and expected to commit and change to a computer. So now that we know all of these things about screen readers in Ember, and you can go back and read that later, we want to actually design a solution that we think will cover our use case. We can start to explore the area. So we need to start thinking about API design. It's the primary use case. If you ever have seen Tom Dale's tweet, a transcluded, restricted, irrestricted, transcluded directive is basically a component. And having a language or having a very common interface for how you do something is a feature that is very present in Ember across the entire stack. And so the sign of a great feature is that we don't have to use it to still be able to benefit from it. All right, so in this case, after we've managed to avoid the feedback, we have a default implementation of something that maybe is like a focus hook. We have a hook that we add to a route that says this is what you do when I focus this route. It seems like a legit place to start. So what do you do? You dive into app.js. App.js is this app thing that gets generated by Ember CLI and none of us ever touch it, right? Seems mostly normal. But what if we use that to actually start overriding Ember core functionality? So here's a really, really simplistic function. It basically does nothing more than grab an element and set its focus. Okay, cool. Now, I just need some way to actually trigger that. I have no idea. So time to open up your debugger and trace through Ember code because none of us are Ember experts except for the 12 or 13 of you. All right, I'm looking at you, Stefan. So if we don't call it, it was just your name. So I don't have to call it except for in a situation where the route changes. Okay, so let's go when we enter a route. Seems legit. All right, so we've got a transition available to us when we enter a route. And so we're gonna override how all of that works. You don't need to read any of this code. But there is one weird situation where if I'm going from messages slash one to messages slash index, I don't wanna set it to messages dot index is content because realistically, you navigated to dot messages. You didn't magically try and go all the way to the index, though you may have. So you really wanna focus up a level. So fortunately, that's available and exposed to us as a pivot handler because of Mahdi's work. Machiner, Alex Machiner, I know people buy their handles. So great, now we've got promises. We need some way to call it. We've got this transition that's been wired up and that, oh dear, how do you do this? So this is what we do. After transition completes, we want to, after it's rendered, we want to focus the route. So we actually call the focus hook, blah, blah, blah. We've got a transition. We've got all of this little cleanup. And then basically after we've received our transition and we've done our focusing, then we want to actually begin our focus hook. So it's actually not unintentional that these get smaller and smaller because these become more and more about implementation details. Then we need to actually integrate this. So sometimes the changes that you make will actually require diving into Ember core so that you can actually call back out. And so that looks like this. And you might have seven or eight, maybe 10 lines that need to change so that you have some hooks or you need to pass something forward that was previously unavailable and you find out where that might need to live. And then you say, okay, I've got something. This looks really cool. I think it might work. I've done some tests. Jenison has told me this is only marginally less terrible. I pulled it up in JAWS. I pulled it up in NVDA. I pulled it up in voiceover. It seems to work. I've focused through a lot of it. It seems like it's a legitimate solution. All right, now it's time to contribute back to Ember. So you've created this feature. It all works and you're proud of it. Then you say, I want to make this a core part of Ember so that we can all be accessible by default. You write an RFC. And so that's up right now. This has a bit of conversation about a focus hook, but there are probably eight other different solutions, but I've created a reference implementation that we can use as straw man to move forward. I believe personally, very firmly, that this should be a part of core and we need some sort of way that we can actually be accessible by default. So you can use this today. You can go grab the code that we've done here as part of LinkedIn's efforts to actually pull into your application right now and have outlet focusing. It should work with all of your apps, except there's a couple of minor things that you need to be aware of. You have templates. Each of those templates must be wrapped in a grouping element. Otherwise it doesn't know what to start reading. So that can be a div, that can be an article, that can be a section. And you can't use automatically rendered templates anymore because you have to wrap them in a div. There are other sorts of weird edge cases that you'll discover, but it's a much, much, much better situation. So I'm gonna bring Jenison back up here. And we're going to do a simplistic demo of the same application, except this time I'm going to uncomment one line. While he's doing that, I'm really, when Nathan told me about all the stuff he's doing in Ember and when he came to work with us, I think it's really exciting that we have an opportunity to make this available. And if any of you have questions and stuff, you can find me on Twitter at Jenison. And I'd be happy to take a look at your stuff and give you folks' comments. And now we're gonna refresh and turn on VoiceOver. VoiceOver on Safari, Ember on the D111 window. LinkedIn, Long Page, Group, S-T-Board, Focus. The sport of Jenison's knowledge. Oh, okay. All righty. Okay, good. Yeah, I'll turn it on the tracker, on purpose. Oh, never mind. I'll get that. All right. The shoes is in my own press control option for the stage analysis. One password, exact knowledge. I'm in the thing, can you give me out of this?  I really am not. Okay, I'm Canadian, though. Okay, here we go. So what I wanna do is, I'm demonstrating the fact that blind folks also have the option of using the trackpad as well, similar to on the iPhone, so I'm just moving around here. So, okay, so let's try this out. Okay, again, no one's in the room. I'm Joe again. Do-do-do. There's a homelink. Messages link. Feed. Okay, so I wanna go to my messages. Okay, I'm gonna hit the space bar. Messages, forward, conversation with Jack, link, forward, conversation with John. Look at that. Forward, conversation with Jack, link. That's absolutely a lot better, right? So there you go. So with that work, and I know in the beginning it might look like a lot of stuff, but just imagine the impact you're having by taking that extra time up front. So that's the demo. Did you want me to do another one? Or did you think, okay.  And again, like if you have any questions, at Jenison you can find me there and I'd be happy to chat further with you about that. Thanks a lot. Whoops, hold on. When we're doing this, it's a very, very different experience from a static site. We have programmatic control over the way you set your focus in the application. Now this has additional consequences in terms of things like scrolling behavior, visual layout, all sorts of other things that still need to be solved. These are open questions, open things that we need to address as a community as to how we want to handle it. But this is just the start. As designers of web-based applications, we have largely abdicated our responsibility of participating in the discussions and the design of the experience for users of assistive technology. That's something that needs to stop. We've spent two decades allowing others to actually make those decisions for us. This consistent behavior makes for a great baseline. We've been doing this for so long simply because design patterns actually make sense. But we can't change those overnight and we have an opportunity now to do better than we ever have in the past. So we will, we will do better. And we can start by actually taking a seat at the table and making sure that the experiences for assistive tech users are actually what we want them to be. And maybe a decade from now, we'll have something that we can all be proud of, something that we can look at and say, yes, we did that. And now the web is that much more accessible. So I'm Nathan, I moved across the country to work at LinkedIn because LinkedIn is doing incredible things. Thank you so much. All right. I think we got time for two questions. All right, so you added a focus hook. I'm not understanding exactly what you're doing in the focus hook. Is there a default action for that focus hook or did you do something to, all right. All right, so hopping off of mute. So yes, I want us as an Ember community to ship a default focus hook that has a normal behavior that all of us can expect. But you can override it in your own individual routes. That's my personal opinion. I haven't spoken to anybody on the core team about this. Sorry. But the goal is for me that we have a default focus hook available. And that way, everybody gets this out of the box. And so that default focus hook, as provided in my little demo here, actually was what you saw on the screen. And it just grabs the first element of that render node and sets focus to that. RFC 66, it's off. Any other questions? What should we be using for testing accessibility? Like is Safari with voiceover the gold standard now? Or is there a suite of things that we should be trying? I'm going to actually defer this one to Jenison, so we need a microphone. So on the Mac, definitely voiceover with Safari. Now, I would say, though, that the line share of screen reader users are still on Windows. So Firefox with a software called NVDA, it's just actually free. So NVDA, you can download that. And if you have a virtual box or a Windows machine somewhere. But you're definitely going to want to test an at least voiceover in Safari with voiceover in Safari, and then at least one Windows screen reader. So Firefox and NVDA is the other one I would suggest. And that's only for screen readers. I mean, we've been talking about this, but keep in mind, accessibility is more than just blind folks. All right, thank you guys very, very much.


Computers keep changing the world, but their power and safety is limited by their rigid design. The T2TILE project works for bigger and safer computing using living systems principles. Follow our progress here on T Tuesday Updates. This is the 29th T Tuesday Update. Let's get into it. So busy week. I put together a video. Let's take a look. So this was last Friday, 4-19-19. We've now got five finished boxes of cases, 180 cases total, which seems like plenty at the moment. And I switched over to printing PD tabs. The handles for the intertile connectors, the ones that carry both P power and D data between the T2TILEs. We need like 500 of these things. The sheet of 18 takes about 14 hours. Around noon I got an email from Robert at ETS. The fresh solder paste hadn't arrived, but they could use some older stuff and did I want to do that? And eventually the answer was let's give it a try. We're to ETS to watch the first tiles come off of their manufacturing machinery. So that's pretty exciting. When I took pictures at ETS the first time, I was trying to focus on the machines and not invade people's space. That's pretty hard with video and sound.   Solder paste printer? Okay does that look like a model number or something? That's a deck. Do we know what it's called? It's already done. And does it squeeze out more? You just put it kind of up. You put it down yourself? And does it do it like back and forth or just always forward? It takes the same glob of goo and pushes it back the next way. That's cool. Deck horizon 2. And so it's already done so now what happens? Yeah I'm just going to be sure that we've got enough lining on it so that we can get solder bridges.  That's what it was doing. Changing little pickers. The nozzles, yeah. Man that's like four hours when I do that. Wow yeah. If it works at all. Beautiful. Oh we've got it done one. How long does it take to go through this thing? I'd say about a close to four. Uh huh. I was wondering about that so C4. And then we... And the switches. Correct. After we wash yet. We're maxing out at 260 and since it's lead-free solder page we actually kick the belt speed down. At 35 usually it's about 70 so it'll give it a little more time in each zone. Correct. The last two zones are the cool. And that's just supposed to be room temperature or whatever. Yeah, bringing it back down. They're still a little high as they come out. Right. Okay, alright I get it. I was wondering whether these gigantic things fit in the same mechanism. So there's a whole special gizmo to hold the big things. 12 millimeter piers. And then these are 8 millimeter piers. Uh huh. And they seem to be sort of the most common.  I can't even see. Actually they're 0201's. I didn't need the R0201's.  And so there would be some super tiny nozzle over there. And that's just vacuum.  Really? I like the switches for example. There's really no good way to grab them. We could place them but we watched the boards. We don't want water getting inside. Oh I get it. Alright. Like that. And the big electrolytic pad that he was placing. Peter wouldn't take it. It just wouldn't fit it. So there's one little extra step. Uh huh. That's very cool. They need a little touch up afterwards. Uh huh. So then you take a look at each one with the magnifier. Look for bridges or whatever. That kind of thing. Oh this is super. So it's not worth the while to try to actually mechanically connect these things up so they can zip through. That makes sense. Of course. It's all a matter of time and money and volume. We first powered up. We cleaned all the nozzles with the intensity stick. Just from Josh?  I mean the paste machine I can imagine cleaning that is a thing. Is the nozzles. Uh huh. Zero ones have pockets. These don't want to have pockets. I don't get a neat pocket to connect to the machine. You mean the tray that they go into? Yeah. I see. I get it. These have a little ring around them and it tends to stick. It just mechanically grabs a little bit. So that means it doesn't get seated exactly on. It will pick it up. Oh it will just miss. I get it. It will figure that out. It stops and you have to deal with it. I get it. Are we good to go? Yep. Yeah we're just sitting here blabbing wasting time. So that other guy must have come out the other end by now. Right? Yeah. So that's just gotten there. It would have fallen all the way down here. Right it would have come in here and slide in here. This is that guy that we saw before. This is no Hollywood magic. It's the same damn guy coming out the other end. No special effect. And then you just stack them up here and if you look back, can I do it? Yeah definitely. It would be a little hot still. No not too bad. Actually it is a little hot. I put it the wrong way up. No. Oh that's very cool. The baiting is still, it's just weird. You mean just taking a look at them? I'll probably possibly set up a life-free station for them and just kind of get out the solder grid. Because that's something that you're going to see with some frequency. I'm hoping not. But remember how Tiger said that calibration on that screen for any song. So how chances are we going to have basically when I was hand-streaming these things? You know he showed us last time that he had this thing. But that even that is miles better than what I was doing with capped on tape on the kitchen table. Yeah. That's where we were too bad. Alright. So the point is you're going to check these, just looking for bridges and touch them up, whatever it is before they get the flux washed off and so on. Ooh, that's the potential. What's happening? Is that a leader? That's the chancellor. Oh, okay. It looks like that's right at the beginning. That is the opening leader stuff still there. Here you go. Once they pass the roller or I see. And if we were making millions of these we would just advance it and get a whole reel like that. I'm glad you had a place because that takes a long time. Well, the Arrow, do you know Arrow? They've been having these ridiculous get-my-business sales that compared to Mouser and Digipede and one of them was free reels with leader like that. The ones that I could get an arrow, not all of them I could. I mean like this Mouser and so forth. That was great. I got a bunch of them from Mouser it was $7 a pop to get the reel with the leader. You can do that here. Well, given the Paz file thing didn't work, I was happy to save you a time anyway I could. Yeah. I thought for sure I could add an offset to it. There's got to be some subtract from a hundred or multiply by minus one or something. When it didn't work out. On the second fiducial, you say screw it. Yeah. So it missed a little bit. Just getting a little thin. I get it, so you can miss some. So we'll do whatever we can do and then I guess it's just going to tie up your machine until next week. We can watch that one along and cycle it around. So you've got a good little bead. Good bead, yeah. So it really cranks pretty well except for the handling time and whatnot. Oh no, I'm sorry. I've done that. I feel your pain. I forgot. Well, what they did was it put plastic leader on it. Oh, and it's just different. Yeah. They would never expect it. To have a edge. Just a tin leader. Right. We haven't actually seen this problem. Yeah, we've seen that, but like I said it was a special free sale. Well, we'll see whether it saves time when we get all done. We had some really old machines. That used to love to realign all the parts. Love? That's the word he would use. Connect to other boards. Board to board, that's the way it works.  So I don't know what the hell is going to happen when I have 150 boards all connected to each other. There's all other order that might be. Yeah, exactly. There's no long cables for the ground to get out of whack. It's just going one little stop and then getting used there and so on. So we'll see. I'm hoping for the best. More is different. I appreciate it. Thank you. 36 seconds. Jesus. Once it gets rockin'. Yeah. So when it was checkin' the three fiducials it was just do, do, do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So this is like, for me, this is like the 3D printer. All the smarts and stuff. And it just says go to XY. Well, I mean with the cameras. I wish 3D printers had cameras.  You know. You come back 10 hours later and you have this hairball. They will eventually. All this stuff is going to get cheaper and cheaper and it's going to be AI and everything to look at what it's doing and see how well it's working. Okay guys. That didn't go crazy for us. Here, so we'll see how long we go and how we run out completely. But this is super fun. I mean, it's easy to get cranky about the technical society. But it also is pretty damn amazing. And it's all about, you know, sort of like knowing what you can find far enough ahead of time to do all of this incredible preparation of building an industrial technical society that you could never possibly afford is one off three or thing. And so for a few thousand dollars we're going to get to this point where we're going to have 100 plus, 150 plus you don't even know yet of these little tiles to try to play with and see if we can establish a benchmark world record for average event rate. I don't know. I'm really scared to even think there might be one air. One event per site per second. But we'll see there might be. Oh. Got to get back to work. Here comes another one. Uh-huh. I've been working for a long period for 12 years. So that's a good thing. Yeah. He gives me a hand. So when you say working on these, yeah, we got these ones, I believe. Before that we had to fill up a pair of bills. Okay, you were just talking about. Right. Yeah. That was the most interesting thing ever. Uh-huh. Say again. I think we'll build more. Well, but it's always going to be sort of research level. Like that. We're going to build this. You know, maybe we'll do another round. We'll see how it goes. But then we're going to redesign and hopefully do much smarter stuff than people who know what they're doing. Uh-huh. This is trying to kickstart a new area of computer research. That's why I'm kind of just doing it all. Because everybody's been some crazy. You know. They might be, right? Yeah. Exactly. And it probably was, but I didn't need them because I'm good at this. Yeah. So we'll see. Once everything was dialed in, the board started coming out fast. By the time I left, the pace was gone and the surface mount parts were soldered on to something like 40 T2 tiles quite a day. Although when I got home, I realized I hate being right about 3D printers. So that happened. Uh, thanks again to Robert and to Pat that was really great. And it, you know, it was just really exciting for me to actually, you know, see this happening. Uh, there was a bunch of other stuff that happened this week as well. I actually have some progress with getting out connectors manufactured. Go to push that off, talk about it next time. Uh, it feels like we're hitting the rapids here at least for a little while. Stuff's kind of piling in quick. It's exciting. I hope to see you next week. Have a good week.


Welcome to another segment of our program. Today we are very happy to have with us Professor K.V. Nagraj, head of the Department of Mass Communication, Asam University, Siltia. So, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. So, today we are going to discuss about citizen journalism. As we all know, citizen journalism is an upcoming concept in journalism where the citizens themselves take part in disseminating information and news and views to the society. So, sir, basically like we want to know regarding the importance of citizen journalism in society, its impact and what are the steps necessary so that the citizen can participate in this process? I think I should give you a brief historical account of citizen journalism. Citizen journalism is a concept which comes from the concept of participatory communication, participatory mass communication, participatory journalism, because now we have a concept called prosumer concept. Prosumer means in a knowledge society, in an information society, every individual produces information, knowledge and he also becomes the consumer of the same information or knowledge, whatever it is. So, this concept became very much prominent in the western countries, particularly the United States of America and the European countries. If you go through a report submitted by Sean McBride to UNESCO on the new information and communication order in the world, it is titled Many Voices in One World and that deals with this participatory aspect of mass communication or communication. And for quite a long, we have been talking of interactive communication and interactive journalism, interactive politics, everything, democratization of communication. In that respect, I should tell you many countries have already experimented with participatory journalism. You will see community radius won't and managed by the people of rural communities or even in urban centers you will find small groups having their own radio stations reaching out to their own audience. Similarly, films are produced by the people, they are the directors, they are the audience, they are the characters, they are the actors and actresses. Imagine such a situation is quite interesting and there are areas where professional journalists cannot reach. When events happen and these events are to be reported and you must understand globalization has brought in certain limitations on journalism. We are more interested in what is happening across the continents but not in our local areas and local issues, local problems, local events should be reported. Sometimes certain events cannot be reported by journalists who cannot reach the spot immediately. That way the civic issues, problems of the people can be highlighted by the local people themselves. Anyone can become a journalist, he can collect the information, give it to the media house and the media house can verify the information and it can be published, it can be broadcast, it can be telecast and it reaches out to a vast majority of the people and by that you are also making the public participants in communication. It is a way of making people take interest in their own affairs. What happens in most of the countries is people become a little bit negligent towards their own issues. There are problems, they don't bother about it and people in the administration, people in power, when they don't get information they keep quiet or even if they get the information maybe because they are known to the majority of the people there is a kind of lethargy and by publicizing certain issues, certain events you can draw the attention of the people in power as well as you can make the public opinion very dynamic. You know public opinion is the bedrock of democracy and even a small issue in a local community which is to be solved, can be solved if the public opinion becomes vibrant. People will have to be assertive in every democracy. Mass media are also part of the democratic setup and if people take interest in this fourth estate, I think democracy will really serve the people. You know as such democracy is a slow process and unless people become active it will be a little slow only and people can energize, make democracy vibrant by participating in mass communication through citizen journalism. This is what people talk of. It is an old concept but it has come to India very recently with the arrival of the satellite television channels and some television channels are encouraging citizen journalism. They are asking people in different corners of the country to send the clips, visuals and they try to highlight the issues and draw the attention of the concerned authorities and that way it is a good development. So do the general public, do they have to adhere to certain rules and regulations while submitting their news, views or as we have said in the audio clips, video clips to certain news channels and other organizations? Do they have to follow a particular set of rules like certain concepts of ethics related? So do they just concern any news or any views, any videos? I will try to answer your question in two parts. The first part I will take as the production aspect, the coverage aspect. There are questions asked, the professional questions. The professional question is when a person is not a professional journalist or a media person, what is the level of credibility that he enjoys? That is the degree of credibility. There is a question. Some people can misuse and they can give some false information and they can manipulate. There is a possibility, I don't deny. That is one of the reasons why I was also initially not in favor of citizen journalism for the simple reason. If you belong to a media house, you are responsible to that media house and the media house can be hauled up in any court of law for the omissions and commissions of the concerned journalist. But when it comes to a citizen journalist, he is not attached to any newspaper organization or any television channel or a radio station and you have to believe him and sometimes it's so difficult to cross verify the facts, you have to believe him and you have to give it out. If it is wrong, then he is not in trouble, but you are in trouble. And many professional journalists say this accountability factor is very important. That is one way. And the second thing is the quality of production. See, if a person does not know what is news and what is not news, if he is not aware of the news values, what is important for the people, what is not important for the public, then he will upload anything and everything which may not be of any use. We will be wasting our time and also we can't go on teaching the general public the finer aspects of coverage, ethical, legal, technical, even journalistic aspects. So it becomes really difficult. But today people say technology has made everything possible and technology has made the coverage very easy. If someone knows how to manage a camera, how to use a camera and technology makes it perfect. If you want to focus, for example, there is autofocus. If you want to adjust light, automatically the camera adjusts depending upon the availability of light. Now when everything is being managed by technology, the job of a person is only to capture the event either on the camera or on his mobile or write down and transmit it to the media house. And the media house can always verify sending by sending someone and then it can publicize it. Here what is important is, you know, there are certain local or what we call as community issues. These can be highlighted for the benefit of the community. You can call it as citizen journalism. Perhaps I believe in a different form it existed as community journalism. In community journalism, journalists themselves were going out. Here you are taking the citizens, the common people and making them journalists either by choice or by default. And it gives them an opportunity to highlight the local issues. That is one thing. And the most important aspect is it is also a form of media literacy. You are making a person take interest in the media operations. And the media operations are quite complex. And once a person starts appreciating, not only he takes interest, he will also make some others take interest by seeing him on television screen or by seeing his photograph in a newspaper. Some more people may take interest in civic affairs. Normally it is not related to crime or, you know, suspense or mystery things. Normally citizen journalism focuses on issues related to the community well-being. But at times certain events concerning certain people who are at the receiving end within the system, their problems can also be highlighted. And that way citizen journalism is a very good trend.  It depends upon how you use it. You know, anything can be used for good or also for bad. And unless people become morally conscious, ethically stubborn, manipulations cannot be stopped. And I personally feel most of the people are good. Most of the people are ethically strong. Most of the people have the moral fiber. And that's why citizen journalism is thriving in India. Of course, it has made a very late entry into India. But I think there are television channels like CNN, IBM and also I think Times Now, they are encouraging citizen journalism, which is a good sign. But if you ask me about the professional quality, I have my own doubts. I have my own doubts, because they are not educated. They are not literate in media operations. There shouldn't be any hard and fast process like that person has to be media literate or he has to have a big green mass communication. Any person from any background can contribute to this. Anybody. If you want to use, of course, it is not to degrade the description as that any Tom, Dick and Harry can become a citizen journalist. That's what we say. I think, in fact, very recently, I was in Manipur University conducting a workshop on citizen journalism. And it was a nice experience because we started telling people about how it can be adopted to the local situations. Manipuri is in such a situation where everyday existence is a problem and how to highlight the problems, I think it is really a happy hunting ground for citizen journalists. And I think it can be done anywhere and everywhere. I will also tell you one more thing. There is a wonderful development in certain metropolitan cities, particularly with regard to print media. It is known as neighborhood newspapers. Neighborhood newspapers, they don't go beyond a particular suburban locality. For example, you go to Chennai. If you go to Chennai, there is a locality called Adyar. And Adyar has got its own newspaper. It is only for the people of Adyar. Go to Mylapore. There is a newspaper called Mylapore Times. It is only for the people of Mylapore. It doesn't go beyond. And this is a kind of citizen journalism as well as community journalism where the local issues are brought to the notice of the people. And citizen journalism don't think it should always highlight only the problem aspect. It can also highlight the positive aspect. For example, neighborhood newspapers, if there is any birth in any family, they will highlight it. If somebody gets married, they highlight it. What you call as society news, social news. See, if there is something good happening, you can also highlight it. It is possible. But unfortunately, our conception of citizen journalism is only to highlight the problem areas. I think we


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