Hi everybody, I think we'll go ahead and get started. We'd like to call the main, or main night, person recreation advisory board to board us. We have the roll call please. Are there any tools here? It's got comments. Sure. Do you have an outline board here? Here. Do you have an outline board? Can you choose? Here. Nicole is normal. Here. Dan also? Here. Tim, what? Here. Here. I started the approval of the agenda. Because it doesn't even have any of those changes to the agenda. Okay. Can we move the park hours right after the zero waste drop resolution? We really need to make sure we have time for that. Okay. Should we get a motion to make that change to the agenda? Can we move that we move the park hours discussion directly after the zero waste resolution? Okay. Any other amendments to the agenda? I'll motion to approve the agenda as amended. I move that we approve the agenda as amended. All those in favor? The agenda is approved. Now we need to approve the previous motion to the minutes. If there are any changes to the minutes. We'll take a motion to approve the minutes. I think the motion is approved, right? Second. All those in favor? Be closed. Okay. And that's approved. Now we can open our public invited speaker section. We have one person who's up. Sharon. You're about to come up and talk to the board. Okay. I'm Sharon Laird, 534 Emory Street. I served many years part of the market for an administrative person also. Sorry about the seats you're sitting in and the workflow. It came to my attention through a neighborhood email that park hours were going to change. And that this decision was basically made for a very hard working city employees. Probably don't have enough time to go out after their long work day to enjoy the parks. I don't think this came from a bad place, but I think it came from a wrong place. So the fact that as a board you don't already know everything about changing the park hours and why. The night before goes for its final meeting tomorrow night that city council meeting scares me. But what angers me and scares me is the lack of public process. That is beyond my comprehension. So my neighborhood park is Cali Park. And for many years we had lots of problems. Same kind of problems that are still going on today by homelessness, but we even have more. And I think homelessness now is a bigger problem. But I don't think the way to solve it is by sitting in the side level and coming up with a decision. You have an advisory board here. The city should have turned to you first. You should have given suggestions. It should have gone out to the public. But you should look to other cities. This is not another problem for Long Island. This is a problem that's going on across the United States. And I think there's solutions out there. So let's just look at this from a park's point of view. If you want to get rid of undesirable use, put in desirable use. At landing park years ago there was a problem. And the little league was going to pull out their T-ball league because of the problems. I wrote a letter to the editor saying, no, no, you need more. You need soccer. You need to keep that park busy. And that's what's worked for Howard Park. So in our master plan, we rolled to have this children's structure and it looks like a train. People come to our neighborhood with their children. It totally works. There's no quick fix right now except reaching out to the public. So what we're going to do is that people who live in apartments and they're hot can't go in their parks because we're going to change the object or sunset. Then what do we think about? We're displacing that problem and we're putting it on the police. And we're going to say, okay guys, we've got these new rules. I want them to go out and enforce it. Because they think that's going to stop the problem. It's not going to stop the problem. You've got one small piece in a much bigger pot. Then you've got to change all your suns with your new park hours. Well, now it's created another problem. Enforcement as well as new signage, I'm going to say. Hold on a moment, pop up tenths. If you have kids soccer tournaments, didn't you bring a pop up tenth? Well, who's going to be the lineage between a pop up tenth for over two hours to shade, because I don't know if you've noticed, but it's getting hotter, versus the homeless one. Again, that goes back to enforcement. Okay, so this is what I'm saying. I think you should be angered. I think you should demand that that should be put on hold, and may I suggest that as a board, you can always, though, you can come to some sort of consensus. One, for multiple people who go to the meeting tomorrow night and state your representing and give your suggestions, or you can write a letter and send it off tonight as a board. Very powerful. And that's how we got the representative. Seeing your other public combined speaker, we will zoom into old business, starting with the zero-waste drop resolution. And just to make clear what you're looking for more from us tonight is really just speak up on the updated drop that you shared. Yes, exactly. We just want to make sure we know we came to the board.  I'm here with Lisa Nabla and Charles Camilitas. We came to the board in March. So we really just wanted to make sure that the comments and suggestions that were given at that time were integrated and reflected into the draft resolution. We also want to highlight that this is very much a draft. We wanted to try to get all our ideas down on paper, and then, most of it being consolidated. We also are working on a consultant for our data analysis. So some of the updated targets that we presented to the board at our previous board presentation have not been yet reflected because we're waiting for that data analysis to put in the best proposed updated targets to be presented to City Council. So we do not have those yet integrated. So I also want to highlight, if anyone really wants to do a deep dive into this resolution, I know we don't have time to do that tonight, but we're happy to have a one-on-one conversation. And I'm happy to scroll through. Steve brought this up. I'm just curious if there's any comments that we can share in the start question. I saw that there was an option to, for perp-side recycling to be weekly, could there also be an option that it would be seasonally, because many of us don't use our compost much in the winter, but I need a big container from now until November, right? So could there be seasonal tip, like paper tip kind of thing? I don't know. Yeah, I might pass that to our Waste Services Manager for Charlie to name the kind of feasibility of some of those eggs. Back here or up there? How should I do this? Come on. I was thinking like the people that plow the sidewalks could just be the same people that do the composting. And so then they get more droplets? Yeah, that was my idea. But it has nothing to do with it. Aaron, it's good to see you again. It's good to see you again. Unfortunately, our program don't work that way different departments do snow. But your question about could composting be a seasonal piece, you know, we could add that to our notes and be part of what we present to our council when we're ready to do our formal presentation. But there's a lot of things that we all can compost in the winter as well, which are really the ones that provide a lot of methane into our atmosphere and the CO2. So that's my input on that. I mean, I do these all season long. I don't know about you all, but my leaves don't fall on that one week when we're supposed to pick up leaves. So happy to have the discussion. I think that's over to the council. But that would be my response, is that if you're around the program, tell me a little better for a lot more people. But we do a big program for everyone and it's just one of those options that we can put out there. But targets and the action items, what is your time frame? Like are you looking at this? So it's a 10 year time frame or? So for the targets right now that we're looking at a 20, 25 as well as in 2050, but we've also had gotten feedback from staff and others about the, our last zero rate resolutions in 2008. They're most likely to be another one between now and 2050. So it would be looking at both of the targets looking at 50% city-wide conversion by 2025. Right now targets just 50% residential and then looking at the 2050 is kind of where they converge. One being 85% and one being only 5% and then one actually has a 20, 35 target. That's a little, so the more ambitious one has some different splits. But that's what we're working with our consultant to analyze because there's a lot of different factors, infrastructure, you know, they've gone back to helping us reach that and then also trying to understand that they have kind of a thousand different sectors in our community to make sure they're physically, something that can be just about feasible for a long time. I just have a question on the pizza, especially on residential. As I understand it, you can't encourage by physically encouraging homeowners to recycle, right? You can only charge what it costs us to do not trash or keep the recyclers entry. As it says, that there's a line of, to revise the fees for sure. As I understand it, our problem when we started doing composting is that we couldn't make trash for a good of the expenses. So we encourage people to do composting. That probably still stands there. Well, I think that's two things. I think that's two things. So why do we don't want our services to be prohibitive for our residents? I think our council has been very clear and very aware of trying to operate prices. Exorbitantly, right? We take care of everybody in the city. But I don't think, more beholden to saying it costs five dollars to pick up a trash, so charge it five dollars. That's a decision that our council and through our recommendations with our consultants can bring forward. But that's a decision made by our council. But you charge different rates, you know, the jobs to pick up and charge higher for trash to help that encouragement. We currently have, that is kind of how our pricing system is set up a little bit with having, we did try to price it specifically so that if you downtrodden to a smaller trash bin and added compost, that's still less than having a larger trash bin. We try to encourage adding that compost but it's about eight to three years out of size. So we did it in a different manner where we were trying to keep it not as large as we can, but saying that there is a cost difference to it. There's a value added, so to speak. I hope that it's on the air. But I guess in terms of recycling and compost and things like that, first of all, they're alternating weeks at least at my house. But not everyone does composting but everyone does recycling, right? So I guess that's one question, what happens in that alternating week when the people that live there, I assume they're trading off. But I guess I'm just wondering, can I ask you an operational question? Yeah, but I guess what I'm really trying to say is I don't love this on my own bill. If I have a larger recycling set and I want to recycle a lot, do I have to pay more to recycle more? It's not this time. So if I haven't had this happen regulated by recycling because it's overflowing. Right. So what do I do with that recycling? Let me elaborate a little bit. Great point. Great point, and it's something that we're going to talk about, probably closer more so when we talk about a rate change for the sanitation funds. We haven't changed rates since 2017. That's coming. Right now, we offer one recycle bin and 96 gallons of recycle bin to every resident in 96 gallons in every area of the city. So we have a choice in the city to do our diligence to say do we want to pick up weekly. We heard somebody say that earlier. That choice might be because that's cost, that's very expensive but another choice would be do we allow residents to have more than one recycle bin? Because I don't need two recycle bins but you do. And that's okay with me. But how do we make sure we're not overspending our fund and do the analysis to say okay well maybe you should have a recycle bin if you want a second one whatever we come up with through analysis. We have a lot of recycling recycles at that level and some people just don't buy a lot so they want it in the city. Does that answer your question? Yeah. There's one thing you mentioned that I don't think it goes directly to your question but we also are repeating to you and me composing to opt-in recyclings not opt-in everyone had a recycle bin and we wanted the same thing. Did that be usable? What would the cost of that be? So that is also something we're looking into. And I did not mention too we also have a recycling center that's open 24-7 for home, single screen drop-off recycling. So if you happen to have extra recycling you put it in the bag take it over without the bag being used. So a similar question here there's a reusable operation section talking about recycling bins and composing bins at park facilities. I notice that for recycling bins it says in all park facilities but for composing bins it's only in key park facilities and I'm curious what the why the difference in the language there for each of those. I can speak to that. The reason for that is contamination in the park system now park system is vast it's massive how many parks we have 42 parks and 5,000 miles of trails you just get more and more but there's parks that really more and more but there's areas like where there's shelters where there's sandstone ranch where there's places where people really congregate where it would be really very good food and that sort of behavior. Out on the same green green way heading towards sandstone ranch at that last turn probably don't need a compost bin out there you're going to have stuff out there that might sit longer or not even be used and it's a positive infrastructure so in the industry it's generally thought of that. Being said if we find that we do something like that and we realize that this park needs compost it's not different from having resources to service it but that's how that can be done. Got it, okay. The following question there would be is that also what we would determine based off of analysis with data or is it just more of a best effort to know that food is happening in these specific locations? I think a little bit about the knowledge of our staff that say this is what happens in these locations and then the staff then go clean and say you know if you really have more bottles and cans and stuff but you know once we lay a blueprint down it doesn't mean black or white that's all we're going to do we're just going to go out in some areas it'll be improved What is that that kind of professional staff piece too the staff does count number bags that's how we keep track of we don't have a good way to count the number of people in our parks because of course in recent times our parks we like trail and just go through the math bags there's a couple things it looks at how much increase the button has so look at a lot of use so that helps the staff meet as well and they also do shelter reservations out of the public parks too so we know which ones are being used for food and activities like that too so that goes into it it's probably not an equation we plug it into but it really is working with Charles and his staff Timbert and his staff right there what was most important we have 24-7 recycling but I have noticed that you can't take your tree limbs on Sundays and that seems to me like the main time that you would want like who cares about Monday that's only five people who can take your tree limbs or the landscape service but I need them on Sunday and your plastic bags and things like that I'd love to see at least the adjustment of the hours for yeah and also a little late for the because it's going it either came up today or let's see the city of Longmont back to a house bill that requires the manufacturers and the providers of the trash that packaging to be responsible for the disposal of that are you reporting for the extended production responsibility bill yes I believe council supports that oh good, yay okay, let's see that, yay good job, thanks Tim I got the one off my list sorry it's going to really reduce our cost it shifts the cost back from the people there's a long list of actions so I just wonder who is responsible for prioritizing which of those actions the city starts with and who will there be implementation or something that's developed and then the other question is when you get your data and incorporate this specific target it will be a chance to see this again in all the numbers so part of that data analysis will probably help us to determine where we will start and prior to that so that would probably help create the next steps of where we go and then we can probably also use that information to integrate information to see if there will be a print update and then yes are we open to go to city council on June 28th I do not believe we're having another trying another thing to come back to board so I'm really happy to send out a closer graph again if it is like to see that move back over to you I have great questions thanks so much we really appreciate you coming it was very interesting for you good question I'm going to do your go here so yeah for our amended agenda we'll go to changes and crackdowns alright a lot of chances to go back in time to do things over but tonight I'm going to try to do a little bit of a do-over if I remember last month when I had kind of had a long meeting at brand lake and every time I said we're out of here it's not a topic it was the piece there I kind of squeezed in the last three little immense nature of parks rules and regulations and I mentioned that we're doing changing our hours that change deeper neighborhoods parks and that will be from one hour to one hour after sunset we also now have a definition of camping so we've always had there's no camping in our parks except in a lot of places so that doesn't exist anymore so it really is no place that there's a lot of camp right now so we're going to have definition of what camping is so like chair mentioned it's going to be an awesome piece of current awareness but having some sort of idea of what camping really is so it really isn't people at the soccer meeting watching their kids we're trying to tease that out it's going to take price and work doing that but the definition came up trying to take these little pieces of consideration of what that really is so the option of discretion to be used involved as well as we look at that and then the other one is the shelter reservation and that is really having no more than 15 people without the reservation and that one actually is a benefit as well we just talked about staff gets reservations for shelters so if there are people out there that are eating food they're using it and we know how to go clean up afterwards too so reservation gives us some information on how we better manage our shelters as well and if you use it for longer then two others as well and that's the things that I actually talked about some of the behaviors we're seeing are part of the vandalism, homelessness, the proper use of the facilities, how we kind of address that and I think Sharon's a great job in her community in her part trying to program things that's some of the things I think we looked at but what I really ended up with last month here was the result of a fairly long process that Parks and Natural Resource was working with the group that came up with these and we were very close to them with a legal group to try to crack the language that fit in and took into consideration well what about the top of the tank well what about families just hanging out trying to stay out of the sun so we looked at those and we came up with some languages not going to council but there is a lot of backstory on that and that backstory came out of the community brought it to the city the city then created the process a little bit different probably what we were used to in the past and I think for staff that was a little bit challenging too but there was a center of excellence that developed a neighborhood impact team that did work with the Park of Land and Park we were seeing what problems that problem that should fill the car park and looked at them and then looked at how we would be proactive and bring this system that created those positive results into the broader picture that would become a council with Parliament serving a presentation so what we're going to do now is kind of rewind a little bit and let Parliament remunerate for community neighbor resources give a presentation and then ask the police officer or our army to talk about how we really ended up at this place and then we can talk about the rules right so if you have questions about what about this park what about this vet how that would play into it good evening Parliamentary readers I'm going to talk about the management community and neighborhood resources which oversees conflict resolution which means neighborhood groups and then also we are the social equity internally for the organization I will let you know that I have had the the real privilege of living and working in the community for three years and have worked with different issues at our parks throughout the years and really there are three pieces here that are being proposed and one is that definition of campy the other one is the shelter reservations and the last one is the park elders so Landon park was the one that really kind of kicked this through the park because Landon park was becoming the broken window in that neighborhood we literally had neighbors that said I refuse to go to that park I have neighbors that gave me all sorts of examples of why they could not take their children to the playground there's two shelters that are close to the playground and then the restroom that restroom has been mobilized multiple times and so one of the things that we decided to do is we met now with the neighbors but we went with a group of unhoused folks we also met with the agencies that are providing resources and we also met to do some reach out sorry so we were trying to do that in concert with everybody what we did at that point is we tried a temporary change in park curfew lives we added some lighting in the shelters for the evening the daytime is where we had issues and the sharing is absolutely right the more activities we can get into a park the more we can get into a community of trust and right now there is no trust we had two resource fairs I'm working with the group of Latinas who work on health to do activities in the park we tried to get recreation as well as our youth center to get out there the evening we usually don't have scheduled activities in the evening so it's an interesting question to ask why do the parks need to be open I do a lot of work around disparities and equity and I can tell you that I definitely am an advocate for most of our low income Latino families that are living in what type of family they need kind of access to green space so I don't know if that access has to happen at 9 or 10 o'clock at night we haven't had that question out there whether I think that time might finish I don't think we have anything scheduled for regulation so it's also very it has to be very clear that the opportunities that are usually sanctioned that are registered or have reservations we're not talking about those we're not talking about the light of basketball courts those are carved out in exemptions the shelters we're talking about two hours because literally at Lenin Park we had situations where shelters were occupied by at least a dozen people surrounded by shopping carts where they literally built a fort they were literally jumping over the shopping carts to get into the center and put in the charts the definition of what camping is is you're actually setting up to live very different than you're setting up a sunshade to watch a game right? very different so I wanted to share that that's where it came from and then also police was also receiving a lot of the calls and having to look at what's the enforcement we could do I will tell you that every time we have started we changed the hours at Car Park we set up notices to about 350 homes to about 350 homes I got two calls both said thank you, thank you, thank you no one else called to say they disagreed we do those letters in Spanish and English we did have parents that said, and even officers that expressed concern that at Car Park the shelter is grabbed by the playground that the smoke was so thick from marijuana that it would be impossible for anybody to take their child to go play at the playground this is during the day and I'll ask the question, I'm not sure beyond the sanctioned activities like baseball, basketball, pickleball those are exempted out so Sarah do you want to sure I hope to say our article is that a few of you look familiar to me I've worked in law and law since 2007 I've been in law enforcement for about 23 years now I'm currently serving as a neighborhood resource officer myself and Dave Kennedy I basically work on what kind of project managers work on law and term issues what kind of crime free housing actually crime free housing it's not all that much more it's a single family basically our crime free housing program has led me in the direction of I'm the housing lady and I called Dave the other house man because he started our street outreach team so together we have been working in and around all the issues of housing and our unhoused folks for several years and that goes with all the parks you're in the room so all your park was a big problem for a long time that neighborhood Carmen brought it up earlier the neighborhoods really can make an impact and help we can all help each other playing a park has a different dynamic every neighborhood park has a different dynamic and socio-economic social status is living around it I also live in this town I have for a long time and I live by a park I love the parks by me and I use it often and it does have a price needless to say it's a cycle I just want to let you know that I too live by a park and understand the need and the availability for people to use the park when it should be used for the law enforcement perspective this hour change it might not be significant to you and this is what we've been doing forever let's try something different I mean the old adage and I can say this because that's kind of the culture of law enforcement but why are you doing this folks because we've just done it this way forever well what's working and what's not and that's what we've really been able to determine this change of the times I can tell you tomorrow night you guys want to hear some numbers I brought them with me but we changed the hours in December and I can tell you we've gotten not only community comments but part of the officers I work with we're seeing drastic increases in our action patrols and people basically going into the park that should not be there at the times where they were literally now if you were talking about the shelters there were three at landing park to just kind of camp around so ultimately have any of you driven north on 287 lately through Lublin and if you're a parks person there's a park right on your right hand side once you pass 402 do you know what that looks like right now it has probably about 50 pence in and I can tell you even though I'm an officer there I wouldn't feel safe so I ask you all this I am a police officer but I also live in this town and I can say from our issues with housing and the improvements we've made with the things that we've done we've made drastic impacts on our crime in this city we have and it is rising and it has been rising in our parks so I would definitely ask I would share this these numbers with you all the life numbers but we've seen a good impact and we've seen even today our landing park I checked our folder so we basically had set up an email and a phone number for residents to call us and we have one that loves to blow our email up and she's given us good information and she's giving us positive comments and guess what it can always be there so guess what else we've done we're working very, very hard with our parks department and they are working very hard to help us and we're basically moving forward and our public safety attorney wants us we have a standard that we pay here in our buildings we want to talk about this and I know this is very new information but we want to talk about this what does that look like in our public spaces why can't a parks person if they were comfortable tell someone, hey your time is up, it's time to leave and if that person doesn't want to go then you can call the police so we're definitely working through these processes of getting more city staff involved because it can't just be the police doing anything and I don't want to go down that radical with the our builders and staff because I'm sure Mr. I started feeling cool in the face but we all have been working on this project for a long time and I think that's all I have unless you have questions for me specifically we do have a problem that we have to show the council so if you want to go through that we'd be glad to go through that and then also answer any questions that you may have so I'll let you all I think it would be interesting I have a quick question I agree, I'd like to see it my question is to you David, this is great and I remember we had this discussion over several months two months maybe about union reservoir hours but this is the first time we've heard about this one is there anything we can do at this point? it's going to council tomorrow, are we wasting time? I'll show you up here because I just want to let you know that again parks have been very supportive as they talked about the impact is on the parks the shopping carts they're making a camper on the shelter that's part of staff is having to put those in vehicles along with police officers I'm not arguing, I'm saying for this board, what are we doing? I guess what I want to say is that this is a little bit different way of doing things process wise but it's because it's new it doesn't mean it can't be improved but this board is probably going to talk to this group more but this group I think probably is what's coming out from this centers of excellent maneuvering impact to help inform the community on some of these changes that these groups are really close to problems are trying to resolve and trying to implement I think what the board could do is the board could help us provide some insight from you all there are three items on there you could support all three you could support none and you have a liaison who is part of council and will be seeing this tomorrow night so you have an opportunity to communicate that to the liaison as well as the full council nothing has been passed the ordinance hasn't been passed we need a second reading it's general business general business, so discussion it's discussion and first reading and second reading so we are at a good time to have this conversation I apologize if we should have come earlier but we did go to council February 8th and we gave them an overview of the issues we were dealing with and the efforts that we were making and I think you all know that a lot of the societal issues that we're dealing with there is not one solution this is not going to resolve that but what we are trying to do is provide guidelines and ability to enforce when the bad behavior is causing displacement of park users when the little league says I do not want to take my team there we no longer want to make a reservation because there's drug deals and people shooting up in front of us that situation is a response when the little league says we're not going to go there anymore so you could definitely look and tell us that we're all three we support one, we support not thank you, that answers my question and then you can tell this is general business it's not too late it's not too late Sarah mentioned that on the first land department car park there is a way and the rules are right so the director can make that change so the first two we did that we went as a broader reach across our parks to make sure this is going according to the council that you had a chance to put on this so this really does give that opportunity so could we vote with the numbers? is it a best to decrease in the numbers so if I may part of your presentation it's not in the presentation I'll go quick so since we changed the curfew so during the day we didn't see anything unless we did see it we got a complaint by our friend hey I saw alcohol bottles out of the table law enforcement can do something about that but we walked out they hide things needless to say here in the day we're kind of out of luck at night time seeing a definite impact on us being able to by the way we started with this conversation started with our nonprofit partners hope we go out and as law enforcement and so to speak take care of business this we had everyone talking about it we gave verbal warnings we gave a ton of written warnings and now we've moved to tickets for curfew now granted the folks that were giving tickets to this is just more food for thought for you if you hear we know that these folks are unhoused what's the point of getting the ticket but we have a process we're a judge that we're doing different things and just basically select what we're applying because that doesn't make sense so those conversations are being had even at the town level for the VA's office so we implemented it in December for our extra patrols we were there 146 times in December for extra patrols this is to minor carpool in particular that's just December and that's when we really hit it hard January where they're 82 times February 33 March 32 and then so far in April this was last around the 28th so and I know one is I've been putting all this data myself so I can tell you that in the last weeks we've been there a lot and it's because it's getting more so all the time but when we can do something as at night and there's no reason people need to be there at night unless they're a legitimate user and they brought this up earlier all of our officers are being educated on this and the fact that people can walk through the park we're using the language code right like if an officer gets called for someone walking their dog through the park they're not going to dispatch that that doesn't make sense now if they're hanging out taking a nap it's midnight when that's something that we're going to respond to I think we'll quickly do that so as I said these are the three areas that we're proposing some changes the camping definition we'll talk about the soccer moms or the families that are going to be there facility and shelter reservations as I said again that we're looking at two hours and it's really a courtesy just kind of keep things moving so that folks can go eat dinner I will tell you that it's so bad that one time when our city manager drove by land and called me it just called to tell you there's a family having a picnic because we hadn't seen it in so long so then the park hours is that curfew that we've been talking about we have implemented that curfew at Lennon and part of park and what we have gotten is good response they're in favor of this go to the next slide oops that's not it let me see I'll tell you real quick if we don't have it wow I've never seen that windings here's like 10 minutes oh there we go no it's it's winding yeah it is hold on what's up with you I don't know I'm impressed that you team up with that so quickly I won't tell your employer I'll tell you a couple of my sadistic that one no I'm curious I don't want to keep you this might be something you want to fix before tomorrow yes we're gonna have to this is our drive around here Dr. Waters will be on the lookout for that one we're not going to read this not good why don't you do this select all you must be using a custom font that's my guess select all and do all that it's okay that it replaced it with that yeah do you want me to do this too go ahead I'm just going to go through this real quickly so the nigger head amp impact team is an interdepartmental team that addresses different issues we address issues like illegal dumping and alleys in some of the low income rentals we've addressed other issues beyond that but when we looked at Lenin that was based on multiple multiple calls from the neighbors that said you know this is this is impossible we can't deal with this we can't put it all apart I had a 84 year old that went to bed early but said his alarm for 11pm so he could get out look outside his windows that's how close he lives and see who was camping out there and then call police and so I'm like we got to do something right a lot of the latino families that I do know I did talk to them and they said nope, nosotros no podemos ir al party por los problemas que existen so they couldn't go to the park because of the problems that existed there so what we wanted to do was ensure that public places and identified neighborhoods are used as intended and are welcoming and safe for all residents and visitors so if you think about it, if you're in the unhoused individual that isn't really causing a problem that's not going to really be the person we're after. If you've got a dozen people who are drinking and cussing growing up by the playground that is not a welcoming place for the neighbors so we have to address some of those behaviors ensure alcohol and drug use and literacy is identified and addressed ensure part shelters are available for all users increase resident activity and recreational use of the park that's part of our plan but it has been very hard to engage the trust. There is not a registered neighborhood within that area there are a lot of multifamily Sarah actually has four, five crime-free generally crime-free multi-housing properties within that area so that's really what we're trying to do we also have been working, as I said earlier with community departments to ensure that we're connecting people to resources I told one guy that I know who's been unhoused for a number of years in the city and you're getting a little older isn't it time to get off the streets how do we help you do that and he says I know I know but I can't do it currently and so we are making those connections and we are trying to do this compassionate compliance the piece of sustaining a balance of compassionate intervention and also efforts that support and welcome make our public spaces welcome and safe is this piece of rules so that we can help make the places welcome to all especially the neighborhoods within that area so we have been working with these partners and basically that's it oh look at you did it so really we are working with community partners to decrease the number of unhoused folks homelessness is an issue for every single community I don't know about community unless they're very very tiny that is not dealing with this with the agency partners we're having issues there we had an outreach team by Elmer in one week out of their team of four that outreach they lost three people so that's another piece of this is the reality of that again that balance of intervention services and compliance supports welcoming and safe public spaces it's not unusual that I walk up to the park with some of the outreach and they're like oh you speak Spanish great come and talk to this gentleman who I know has had alcohol issues for about 40 years and getting this individual into services there's resistance there's mistrust we are dealing with the folks that really have the most challenging life situations and cannot easily go into a program and its result we all would love to say that would happen a communication plan, we set up a voicemail and an email specifically for Landon and for CART so folks could go there directly and sit up here and there so they have one space sorry that's okay so we changed the curfew hours at Landon and CART park most of the neighbors have really expressed appreciation there was one person that was concerned about going out to observe bats in the evening and as David said, if you're walking your dog through the park or you're observing bats you're one person that is not the kind of behavior that we're going to address by enforcement so the amendment changes will help to address and sustain the efforts as Sarah said we've done put a lot of effort into that frontline staff that is going and talking to folks that are homeless, going and talking to neighbors going and talking to the folks in the apartments and this is how we can help to sustain it is not a solution but it is a little bit of some tools that will allow us to address some of the behavior that was making those parks unwelcome and I think that's what I think that's it, it's so snacky it's so snacky okay thank you it says thank you any questions that we could can I just add this Landon Park is not the only one but Landon was the focus of this to Ward 1 so 11 months ago I started getting lots of phone calls from residents on Landon Park and we've had this conversation the response I have to say I was not as optimistic as I am now that this response would have the effect but the first here is that the park would be shut down the starting place here was more about health and safety for the people in the parks and the residents around the parks but that is the first priority with understanding it is a complex layered and nuanced set of legal issues that these teams have to navigate their way through from the ACLU to the Constitution to what's happened in Boulder it is a fine line they've walked and I think they've walked it really well to keep the parks open not to shut them down they've listened well to lots of the public to give people their park back and to do that in a way that as humane as it can be to those folks who are unhoused and not just unhoused in this case, folks who are unhoused and simply don't have much regard for our community standards and power laws so I would like to think that any resident around any park that they have the same situation would say to this group thank you for how you stepped up and what you've done and we'll get a chance to talk about it in a moment do you have a copy of the exact language of the definition of the proposal I have a copy right here if you'd like to read it I just wondered if that was one that could be shared so we could just share and it also is the council communication for tomorrow how does this affect the other parts of parks like the open-states part but I know when I've been on the same frame there's many people camping and there's thickets is that a park? and that's where we work together mostly with the park rangers and I unfortunately when they've I think it's fantastic actually how much information we're now sharing not that we weren't doing it before but I think we've just made it to a number one priority of sharing this information so I will disclose this to you we are going to maybe see some increases and more on house folks and my idea is we're going to be down with the green noise here shortly the county is moving some folks out off 119 in the sugar hills that now are being called the white mountains this is all pretty new stuff but my bed that's why I got the board with park rangers that they're going to be probably moving down to the green as we work I can tell you the amount of hours the park rangers and myself and my partner Dan Kennedy the troll doesn't have time to think of what the disturbances but we go out and actively look for these camps tag them when we can and to move them along but I know that it's not going to it might get worse before it gets better it usually does in the beginning of summer I guess I was just going to ask you to do the board that's effective so David camping definition camping so camping is that definition of camping is one of those definitions I'm not going to say what it applies to but it doesn't apply to part-fighting maybe in order to apply to the real fight so camping goes across our whole system so camping is not allowed this is a designated spot right now we're on the busy spots so camping is really that greater than two hours under some sort of power and having that living activities associated and that kind of stuff so there's a lot of pieces to go with that definition too so that covers all of our partners open space, freeways actually I'll call them lands the hours change only changes are given in parts so our community parts where we know we have scheduled soccer matches and baseball games and applied football those are still scheduled to run through just the program so those aren't changed with the hours camping they're still applied so under the when we looked at this to a same variant soccer program they can have a kind of long with that space so again that can't be unless you have a reservation that that gives you permission to be there and then the shelter reservation is across all our shelters I have a doubt about the question is it illegal to be home once in a while? it is not illegal so where can they go I don't get it so here's the issue we work with HOPE which provides a lot of services they actually right now have three safe lots so safe lots are if you're an individual who does not have a home and you're living in your car in the evening you could build one of these parking lots well no actually different places where you can access services facilities so you can go in and take a shower have a meal or those kinds of things so the need and that's just to tell you the need so it is not illegal to be homeless and across this nation that's the way that it goes it is not illegal it is the behaviors it is the living situation and we'll tell you that nine times out of ten HOPE shelter they have a shelter usually has available homes the segment of folks that are on house that are the most visible to the community for a very complex but they're the most resistant to engaging and being part of the systems so I think that's another piece of that Kerman could you just add the LU may reference the L there talk a little bit more about who they are, what they've done and vouchers that are used are not used to house people every night in transitional housing if they need to so one of the things that we did early on was that we met with these community partners and it's a very interesting conversation when you talk to folks that are providing a specific resource for a specific segment of our community right so they're looking at someone who's on house and doing whatever they need to stay connected and try to engage them when I asked them about how do they communicate the impact that community has on the neighbors they said we don't really do that we don't really talk about that so we started that conversation and also we started as Sarah said the coordination of our communications with elder we could identify more quickly individuals that Sarah knows, that I know, that elder knows what do we need to do to work on getting those individuals so they were doing because we just lost some members but they were doing outreach not only at the parks but they were doing it in other areas where we had homeless folks in the greenways I don't know if you've noticed on Hover there was some waterways where people were sitting on camps so they were going and outweaching to them I also had conversations with folks that go and see people in the parks on Sunday so I went out there on Sunday I took them brochures of the resources that we had they have very big cards I have no idea I've never talked to anybody from the city so it's like here's my number call me, let's talk let's work together the more that we work together the more our opportunity is this to engage you have to realize that some of these folks their stories are amazing stories of survival and resilience but there is a level of resistance and that resistance is I don't work within the provider so we try and really be diverse and also be understanding of their fight and so that's why those outreach folks and the folks that work with hope around homelessness have been crucial to be in communication and coordinated evidence and again for the Rangers we were talking about the Rangers that was greenways and stuff that's where the training went through they trained with hope in that situation the first thing is operating services they don't want services that's their choice we can give them the options but the first thing to do is try to make sure they know the opportunities are one on the fights for that the other thing is if we go find those tents we can't do that but on that tag where they can go for resources and what kind of time they have even with contact as well if the experiences that our standards for public lands are simply those that we're applying in our parks greenways it's the same thing we did a couple years ago to the downtown area our standards for public lands come down and it's had a very positive effect in terms of the health and safety of our downtown absolutely if you do not have those issues are you going to be implementing this change just across the board or do you have sort of a test and an evaluation period to see if it's working I think our work lending our work that test and the numbers that Sarah just read to you and you saw the high volume and the volume of service calls go down and again the question is there's three pieces to this and the a few hours if we were a larger community where you had activities beyond the baseball beyond the basketball I would say it's going to create an impact it might create a disparity but right now we don't have other than you walk your dog we're going to have sort of bats and those are not the activities that we're looking at when there's occupation and I'm going to park there for a while and Dr. Waters probably saw this and heard from plenty of members I'm not kidding there was at least a dozen people that have partial types of weapon pulling carts over their shopping carts I have plenty of pictures of anyone that's interested and I have pictures of this from yesterday yesterday okay so I feel like you need to move on to the same thing and this is across the board and like and we we are just now hearing about like shelter thing I can't even think about it in this short of a time like if that's an impact but I have thought about the career view this doesn't apply for my park so my park has people using it at night and not everyone needs to do an organized activity that's what our park spaces for organized activities are for a small segment of the population who's able to sign up for an organized activity my park is used at night all the time during the summer people work in construction people work landscaping you go to sophomore park in June at one o'clock in the morning or four o'clock just relaxing using the shelter because they sent their kids on a midnight but the adults are still out there I just feel like more laws you were talking about you know we have a hard time like this is more laws to enforce like you said before it's more laws to enforce we're making the government bigger and more laws to enforce and set up and saying oh but we're welcoming more people to parks well that doesn't welcome people to parks it doesn't go away and you think oh we're not targeting people that are looking at that but you are like I just brought back in 2019 I was with three teenagers and we were watching the meteor shower at Sanstone we were trying to watch the meteor shower right before school starts it's the Perseus and we had police come up to us and those kids would have been so freaked out then the police saw me and was all okay these were kids looking at stars in the only place they could possibly get away from all the light within their distance and so it is targeting it's targeting teenagers I don't know it's across the board and I'm glad I worked for them I'm glad that you reached out to people but you didn't reach out to the people in my neighborhood we don't have a problem I know but now we're going to have a curfew you know and so that's the thing we're going to have a curfew in our park and the kid that just has to like just flip it out because their parents are driving them nuts can't just lay in the field because then they get ticketed or they think they're going to get ticketed so that's the thing they think they're going to bury her we're just making more things a crime we need to increase park use as she said increase it just have more people out there that's why we don't have a problem with hand load we do have a problem in the middle of the winter that's when the drug use goes in there it's the middle of the winter there or it's right next to my house in the alleyway in the summer because the park is stupid so I don't think we can give it enough time to actually pass a motion or you know anything on this we really appreciate the information if anyone else has any other just sort of basic information questions we could do that but I think we should probably go on I think I had one quick one oh sorry sorry and then we'll go to Dan I totally got this complicated apparently many teenagers I do agree having to go for a park for a few hours at night kids like to stay up late seems like a much safer thing than having them drink and drive for example I think there could be a nuance to this your two hour rule could be throughout the night let someone go to a park at midnight and then leave by two that would change the homelessness part but still allow night use I would rather have my teenager go hang out in a park at midnight then drink and drive or you know drink and drive let me ask you a question real quick so I can and this is not a fake by any means but we have curfew in Wilma every city in this county has curfew you know the curfew are so I had a 12 year old I know my time is coming to look at him by his feet I can tell you that curfew the only way the only way your kids are going to get caught at a park is if an officer is driving by or someone who planes we don't actively like it's 11 I mean you can just go and pull the tunnel I don't know why is there people what's the age just in your park 18 there's the other county that's another county I just want to I agree with my comment is in the park hours thing that the city council communication it says one hour before after sunset or lighted 10pm except as otherwise posted twice it says that who decides how does that you know put a park petition to say ah we want an otherwise post I mean is that what that means so it's one of the pieces that the directors authority or the deputy city manager could do that in the rules and regs so at the the camping we talked about it across the board that one also says we're as posted but we recognize something that on the proper rate it's getting hotter some days people are out of dickage or on water not having as much clothing on if they're a macintosh paddleboards and yet we're thinking about people having that so we're going to be able to post macintosh in dickage if you have your shade intent for more than two hours so those are the things my question is could that be an hour an hour's loophole that if there is a park for example that isn't an issue maybe you don't change the hours because you otherwise posted or somebody does I would say it's more intentional than a loophole reading it twice I'm thinking wow that's a loophole maybe that's something we need to think about we do all the time if it's start watching for certain parts it gives us more flexibility if you read it and you think that there is some discretion built into this we don't do it very often I'm personally the mindset that if we're going to make a big change back to the community if we're going to make some changes out of those places there's a lot of force and flexibility for discretion sorry one last maybe comment because I know I love that questions so my sense here is that this is a complex social problem all around that challenging to me that means that the problem necessitates a complex solution and so one blanket word that has an effect across all parks at all the same time doesn't make a lot of sense to me maybe it should be more of a case by case basis out of approach to solves a challenging problem so that's just my comment on this yeah so thank you so much I really appreciate your time you spent working on this I would just encourage members to feel comments members of the council and share those if it's going to be a drastic council meeting tomorrow you want to share thoughts and also I would just note this is something that we would both in general would come to the board earlier projects part two a very complex problem to another so great yeah right right yes yes yes thank you thank you yes yes can you make that smaller? can you make that smaller? yeah okay everyone so we invited Steven happy that to continue our conversation from the last meeting about compliment and so do you want a presentation or do you want to just answer what we had talked about is that kind of like what's what this is kind of what are the themes that we're seeing there yeah so we chatted last week about compliment projects last week we were really talking about kind of what we're working on last month just like last week okay we were talking about what we're on what we're working on we're talking about carry forward funding and so what we didn't get to last month was really what we submitted right now in the cities in the process of submitting for capital improvement projects for the five-year capital improvement program and so what I put in your packet this time so maybe you could kind of digest it and ask questions rather than having to still do every project but we're happy to present this however as you digest what you see here is really a draft of what staff has submitted and it's still in the process of being reviewed and making sure all the budgets are so these numbers don't really look at them too closely because they're still being true to our financial staff and our budget staff has to make sure they present a balanced budget to the city so what you're seeing here probably is not because staff submits based on need and then we work on each of the funding sources to make sure we're submitting a balanced budget so just keep that in mind this is really draft but based it's always draft this is what we provided to the leadership team leadership work definitely has questions about these questions about players, questions about funding sources, competing funding sources these will change, if you remember we made sort of a joke last week but we didn't see it adopted by city council with the budget until mid-actober every year by November we're already working on the next year's CIP this is a good point to use it's good for the year, the first year but every year we're looking at the next five years, things change in those four outlying years every year, we prioritize projects this is the draft of what we're putting together this year and Kathy wrote this out into fully funded projects proposed partially funded projects proposed and projects that we have identified but that were not funded not shown as funded this time so these, when you say led to the heading funding projects and the other steps proposed should be fully funded in what years right and so sometimes the funding might be you're going to design one year in this case a mess or different phases or sometimes as we talked about last week some of them are sort of program type CIPs where CIPs are work on that and ready this year we work on this so that's the reason take for example Drag Creek Community Park phase 2 DPR-049 that's the balance of Drag Creek Community Park that hasn't been built yet not with the synthetic fields which is fully funded but not the rec center and the outdoor pool which are sort of partially funded that project is we're showing 1.7 million for design and about 10 million for construction we don't have that we're showing 4 million is funded 6 million for is unfunded as we get further out closer to working on that project we'll figure out what to fund we're asking counselors being asked to approve 1.7 million for design and 4.40,000 not the 6th part of that is because we already know there's not enough funds right but there's some other you know harder decisions you'll notice the same spring-spring way shown is partially funded we have a lot of projects that we are working on and construction costs are going up what our approach has been if you remember we face-welded school puns out to airport road phase 13 is sandstone ranch east of St. Blaine State Park phase 13, face-weld we don't have the land yet and there's city strategies about why we haven't pursued that land but we have been showing funding for that project phase 13 we have a 1.5 million dollar grant from CDOT we have another grant application and so this is the momentum behind that so we've opted to show phase 13 as fully funded not show face-welded funded now but we'll come back in future years and figure out a way to fund that would be one of the examples about how the strategies change based on the things that happen outside of any of our control opportunities and concerns the grant opportunities so we can go through projects by projects or you know we can talk about this stuff for hours so if you have questions about specific projects, not for hours but this is a primary discussion item so please do I don't know one person who got him yet but I'm in projects so we have PR083 which is one of the examples that has no numbers so it's there's already money from previous years saying that this thing is funded and if you're not asking do you want to talk about this as well? PR083 is for investing funding it's at the bottom of the first page Dry Creek Park Multities Field is on there is a misnomer, that's not PR083 that's PR49 twice too if you ask and you get them all right see if you can't put that in it's the IP okay so ignore those two yes ignore those plain ones as far as trails which is something that I know you're passionate about we are showing money to fund the Dry Creek Trail from Sands Club East to Sunset Street and then we've got to get a connection of Greenway between Skyline High School and Page Street along the Ruffin Ready that's just disrepair and has been for more than a decade so we're going to focus try to figure out a way to focus in time and money on rebuilding that trail to make it safer and also bringing a bridge connection over the Ruffin Ready ditch to connect to that for one of the complex that we've built over the years yeah we kind of talked about a little in the last meeting after hours do we risk counseling saying why do we even give you any of this money you're $18 million in rears already but projects are funded that we don't have staff it would seem to make sense to put $400,000 of people to get the $18 million without a bridge and I know that they're two different developments entirely but this is not just you transportation that piles and piles of money for projects before David speaks to that one of our strategies this year working with our budget staff is to release some of the funds of that $18 million we're not carrying it over and then re-request me to say counsel since we failed to spend those in a timely manner we say uh Box Meadows Park was funded for construction we took that money out so we released it back into the fund but now we're requesting it again in 2023 for counsel to approve for us to build construction one way that helps is that lets me give an accurate cost estimate because once the project is funded if I'm waiting three years to build it that's three years of inflation I don't get because that money sits at that amount and so this helps us shrew up our budgets and try to reflect more accurately the work plans that we are attempting to accomplish with staff that are right now David has some approaches I think the other thing I'll put out is these are not all student projects by any means I agree and the work plan that we were presenting last month was kind of looking at the part of the trail planning development staff's work plan so these are recreation projects these are projects that engineers are working on and they have older students working on so timber so that's all of these the other in that especially we had a plus much we are planning that we have that backlog so we we're requesting very little in 2023, 2024 and our requests are in these later years when our work plan will mash up so we are taking that into account when we request funds we're trying to make sure that it fits when we start to have time it's not to say we want to agree with maybe not stabbing your boss but I think that it is already I appreciate these views making this a positive way of trying things because it's a little bit different because I definitely do certainly see that backlog but if you take it away and it's hurt on my shoulder, I don't like that approach you have to go back you have to go back and really ask for again there's that assurance that this is an important project because I heard from staff we're really funding a really important project but it also tells a more true story of what we can really adopt and work this down what we have and I think that's an important piece too you see those dollars you see the project I think that's the case with the houses of public wealth those dollars are important because I think it's a little more honest story but I think it does make people more concerned that when we get this work done already is it going to be the forces that are supposed to destroy it so to address that how do I know is the member of the public that is now a priority because with priority four or five years ago you didn't actually have it so to keep on it to refund it just means you're just reaching it so it does say we keep it in there as an unfunded project so we do kind of do the five year CIP we are keeping track of what those projects are and it doesn't make any history on those when they were started when we first put the budget process so there's a record keeping component to it but I do think when people put those big projects and we go back to constantly saying we have to react with money because we have people all to read as part of as we interact with money and we're still priority I think based on our maximized just to create a prioritization to make out of it short-term projects, medium-term projects and long-term projects we're still because yeah like the same green light because we're trail approximately we're all we're still trying to stay focused on what we've fulfilled it's and it's a multi-less five to seven years of recovery, RSVP and COVID sort of slow down so we are still trying to take this little bit of time to right-size our work plan and hopefully our workforce the other thing we also talked about is that we don't want to be too thin in the five year planning hire someone and they have nothing to do it's so trying to keep a balance of the meat on that bone that we can be planning and working on as for our projects anyway and then if we're lucky enough to add any different staff then we'll be working with them as well so and I think the ones that we that are a bit more difficult to prioritize are maybe we break out the trail repair projects and the part removal projects and things like that and that does speak to that we do have a lot of background, it's damaged it's de-emission it's now a priority, life is close you know so those are the other things that we have to keep capacity open for and that's what slows the other things down unfortunately to keep that balance of anything safe, usable, open while also really what the master plan does with vision a couple of questions like that in terms of thinking about the full cost of budgeting for these projects part of that includes the capacity to actually implement the project so I know that probably they come from different funding sources but are you ever able to share as part of your proposal I don't know if this is a question for you but you know here are priorities and here's the sort of level of staffing we need to you know actually deliver on this so that's one question that I have a related question which is it would be interesting to know sort of what is the level of project management staffing that a city of our size like other cities of our size might have in order to you know in this area not like a crossable city but for these massive projects so it's a good question also I was trying to cut Joe's page and that one was it's a different answer from us so go ahead so the actually I'll go back to something, the kind of staffing for this type of group I actually asked Kathy to start looking at that amongst some other local organizations and I just felt like trying to do this with this because probably not what other groups are doing I just do that so Kathy has reached out I want to share some of that Kathy and not at all it's eating fine so I did just reach out to staffs and right now for Collins, London, and Aurora I've reached out to and you guys can probably understand it from mine and Boulder is very similar size in our population and theirs was easily found on the website and there's a split between open space and not in parks and prep so that long-range planning, project management construction management they team but you can you know it's hard to compare apples to apples because you have to look at are they also designing golf courts and moons are they do, so you know every community is a little different from what we're trying to do and you're back yet you're working on the charts they're still coming it'll be really helpful thanks for doing that and then your first question was was just about how you know I mean these are sort of more the the project cost how do you build in that we started to have that conversation on my course Steve and Timber and I we had project managers that did not have the RC review and they didn't have other things to do with the city or helping be subject matter experts on the project they just had the project I think if you looked at a different part being built what kind of what through you went through they do the RFP it goes to the person's project it goes up and did it really is two years to do we have to divide that out and I still have quite certain time you know they can do two parts at a time if you're doing that so we're still kind of looking at we really have to try to map that out and if you have X number of projects and they take X amount of time how many decades behind her so that's what the exercise is that I'm working on yeah we thought about taking our current project we can run them you know from there how many people and that two years is somewhat of a misnomer because for every projects there's things you have to work through. For Clover Meadows part they need to do a reflash that's they need to go for DRC and go to council for approval for Fox Meadows we need to get an easement from the HOA to connect the country club golf course where we have water rights to connect over to the park so that's going to take some time to do each every project has a warranty period that takes intermittent time during that so I'm still working and I have meetings this week on RCP City of Reach 1 which is where Dickens is finished Dickens warranty is already over I'm still working warranty with the contractor for some stuff out there and so these things drag on outside of our control but it's important that we get over paying for it so we are going to get the perfect response for everything but if you look at your representative projects and thinking about do we really have the right size project management staff for the size of our community what we envision for in terms of getting these in I would say that's what these are that's hard for me to say but I think through years of experience you've got to go that depth and there's going to be that there's a school board if it's the H2A they're going to have that with your project so it doesn't build that into it and see where we get so I think what's happening is that we came to three years on the end of the bargain and I think about the part of our new project that took several years because we got to do a massive fund out there once we're working at this bargain it's not working at this part and get council approval for the project in phases so certainly not more than two years yeah and maybe I'll share an object if I was going to share this it's going to be public workers so I sound like I'm trying to use this board to understand if I'd like to be able to respond to this group that when I give a request from Dan Wolfer's open space group or from Timbers group and the parks supervisors I have to approve and rank those two top priorities this year are looking for a manager for this group and then a project manager one so it's going to lower and take on add-on projects that constantly distract and get Stephen and Kathy pulled into and it's going to really keep your eye on that long-term vision how is what they're doing this year tying into a vision what's the next step to that other than this graph mentioned maybe tying into parks to do that long range piece where the seniors can really work on those places building those parks over there so those are my top priorities that also have a lot of stuff out there and it looks like it happens a bit just so you know for me, I hear what you're saying I hear what staff is saying and that will go into my top priorities I would happen to be doing some project I mean to be a working manager to do some projects but most people at that level that supervisor manager Dan Wolfer does real estate deals for me so yeah, there would be a ability to pick up some slack to them in minutes what I really see that as likely is going to be the ERC work in the way as I work and the vision planning piece that I get are you know, we don't want to take all the fun out of it because they're a piece of their world they're a piece of their world mentoring what those partial managers want to do I think it would be at the other communities our world usually there are the long range planners the managers are more part of the planners doing the master plan landscape architects project manager levels and then some support staff on the construction implementation and so that seems like a structure that I see in the others it's kind of doing both the long range planning and the organization and so I come here every day just so we understand the structure of who are your managers and how do you do that that's something that would be solved it would be a person that would be with David Skeen David Dan Timber Ken would be managing these positions and maybe another one and Daniel again because general fund is a tough fund it's a hard one to do work with because again now we can have a water project and we can work there we have other water supplies water that needs master planning open space has some acquisitions so I was able to use open space and water funds for a person so she only has a third general fund so in any given year that would be a perfect one third one third for a time and Daniel definitely has to commit time to open space and water resources any questions on specific projects Dan well I remember last month we talked about bridge replacements like there was one in another one my 21st and garden acres and repurposing bridges and maybe I just missed it but I don't see small items on this list is that correct you're still a lot more than these aren't this isn't a complete list we found on here under PRO136 replacement we're requesting $40,000 out in 2026 and that's really to do an assessment to do a process system inspect the bridges again they haven't been inspected since 2012 I think and to re-up that program and determine the priorities so the bridges that I mentioned last month are coming got it oh so that's why they don't as I realized we have all the stuff that we haven't done yet this is the stuff that we're not going to be doing in the future I heard that that's a good example of how I'm not asking for a lot of funding because I already have it well then maybe you can tell me the question I really have is that we've addressed in past years what about a shelter or something at the quail tennis courts is that in anything or not on this five-year plan or never going to happen? no it's not never going to happen that's going to happen no it's one of those smaller projects it would be a great project for PM1 we haven't found a place to shorn an in yet it did have I'm trying to remember LTA is in my year because I played tennis and they know I'm on this board so I get a lot of comments I can get back to you as to whether I release that funding I had a hundred thousand dollars previously funded savings from tennis courts I was going to use for that and rebuild the trail around the parking lot so it's better fit between the rec center oh okay I'll have to look back and see if I let that funding go but it's still on there as a project but it's not you told me this is in past years now I don't see it again and so I just wasn't sure if this is not a complete list and it sounds like that I'll have a look and get back to you on that okay no I get it you guys got these big ones that have to people just to strike something that's the conversation for later in them a lot of those requests that make sense would be seen quick and easy to do but I'll never get to talk to them I do five of those projects that's the one that they call future park I told you that several residents say that's its name that should be its name it is I have a question do we do we start like figuring out aging when we're looking at parks I mean there are things that are great the infrastructure is great and there's a lot of teachers with that but when we're looking at implementing park we're already looking at this is a life of 20 years or 10 years or 50 years it should start coming into our radar for the CIP that's how we manage a park renewal program that's mostly PRO but 86 and PRO 13 which can't go through your patient side or that but our park separation staff has a life cycle replacement asset management system we're going to identify all the assets of a life cycle to them so we've got a real program so we all sit down together when the life cycle is coming up and then most of the time we still have to physically go out and see you know it's just because the program says 15 or 20 years maybe it still looks good maybe it's your area of impact or so we certainly do adapt I think where we struggle the master plan talked about that our park separation shows master plan and talks about kind of this thinking of fun kind of philosophy which we haven't really gotten there yet but this $2 fee it's getting us over the hump another funding source to have a sort of keep up with it rather than catch up with it so okay I guess we can have a little bit of a gap that some people have been trying to get and apply some time to hear what these gaps are at the purpose you know this is what we're going to say yeah that's a certain need to be replaced but Kathy's going to renew it in two years so we just let it go we'll buy a new slide then we know the whole thing's going to be replaced in years we still have some of those conversations like you know when is the economy refreshed, are we new or just you know maintained so we do have a few gaps that I think that still does what we're when we're always kind of kind of we need to start investing in the fund that's going to keep that part of it that's going to replace the bigger gaps because our operations and maintenance budgets don't have that capacity to replace the $6,000 playground you have several on here that are laying renewal or replacement I mean I see that to your point there's a debate as to whether they should need more maintenance or if they have more improvement yeah the projects that I started when I first started working here they're coming around for some of that renewal thing and the philosophy is what does renewal mean renewal means replacing kind or renewal means to refresh to current public desires trends that sort of thing, roller hockey we built three roller hockey courts back in the late 90s or 2000s those are not used as much anymore the foot's all a little bit I have to say I've seen one hockey player in the past three years but does it? we're not thinking about the public process but we do think that that's something that could become pivotal or some of them should become pivotal but those are the sort of things where projects it could cost $200,000 to replace something where it could cost a half million to refurbish, renew that replaced thing and we haven't settled on how we should plan to fund that we don't know nothing I want to say I appreciate how hard you work, so none of these conversations about extra staff is all about appreciation and help for you guys because you do such a really excellent job, so on the right track just stay in court and thank you very much for working to support your staff on our conversations how does this list and priority and enumeration you know, it changes obviously and are we supposed to every quarter say you know what we need to reach, I mean how do you guys do that you know where do you take direction council obviously but more particularly right, and council's never gotten into the weeds on that except for the master plan council gave us the direction by the master plan and you presumably have a lot of flexibility because you're the experts like this part of town needs something time to look for a neighborhood park are we as a board supposed to be pinging you I would say part of why we're presenting with all these list of projects information, priorities when we have long account players in the community I think that's kind of why we're passing this on a lot so maybe a couple times a year we need to look at a long list I don't know, I mean if that's part of our job we kind of looked at it once a year okay, yeah, this is it maybe that's enough that might be because you know Shanti said a little earlier that we're really looking at that master plan we have a lot of work to do but maybe the sequence is off, that plan that's a really good document it really has a job identifying the gaps but sometimes opportunities come up and we have to take it, well, opportunities and other sort of instances come up they kind of pull us off the ground but that's where I think checking in and saying this is an identified project it may be an area that hasn't been long enough to go back and be prioritized but it really is, we have a long list and Kathy has worked through the day and we are talking decades with two staff members trying to see if there's something wrong and I think these lists also break down the master plan might say primary green light connections is a hot priority and this breaks it down into what are those actual ideas I have a list of 20 pre-op connections to make and go over there on the city so that's 20 different projects I got about one and half of them exactly we do a six month checking because that's where it gets kind of tight work we jump in the middle of CIP it's not a lot of time to kind of make some tweaks but they did that six month check it's not quite as busy I didn't mean to make us do that it was more of an idea to see what other folks thought but we're always open here then I'll keep complaining I got that permission I heard and that's part of the reason why I try to show up at these meetings you guys have questions that come I've been coming here since I've been on the board it's great and I'm happy to answer the questions about these things and what the reasons are why we try to by our time that's the way we do Jeff and David do you need this up anymore because I have to sit here and keep you in my house no I don't think so for motions that you made in February is going before council council member Waters a few weeks ago asked for the council to accept your motion and give any permission that you might have to let you know that that is going to be discussed tomorrow well I'll be shocked if the statement from this group isn't accepted it's going to get into the queue in terms of schedule there's a much bigger discussion about your recommendation and what's possible that's emerging on the recreation of the mentees but around a number of programs and I think it will show up there and that's not a public discussion right now but it will be I think before tomorrow and we'll come back to it in the context of this other set of ideas that are coming I went to the senior citizens advisory board last week to talk about a future conversation center they were very excited that they reached out to them they made some comments about the things that they would like to see in the rec center and they also made a motion supporting Pratt's motion and council member Mark will bring that up as well but like Tim said I don't think there's going to be a lot of future conversation later meetings to this time it will get lost I can promise you and would it be helpful to have any members of Pratt just share for the motion yeah if you can't even direct public advice if you're heard just to acknowledge it's on the agenda that you're here to answer questions if people have any you know just to be a resource during the conversation my guess is there will be very old discussion you know the council a lot of kind of meeting earlier today with the mayor I heard her say I think this is something we should take note of we are we are taking the appropriation to council on good things are coming any questions do you have any discussion of items from packet updates so does this from the materials or provided if you have any questions the discussion tonight reminded me and I saw it in the list of the Button Rock planning I think it was June 13th at our meeting we get an update and is that going to be too late time or with respect to tonight's discussion how much what happens after June 13th or what's the future the reason I in particular I'm worried that there is going to be a lot of dog owners upset when the impression I get from Danielle is they're going to say no more dogs at Button Rock and so I don't know if all of the public input has been heard or you're going to get a lot of it late or try to slide it through without anybody noticing which I don't think so but I just want to know what the time frame is for the whole Button Rock feasibility before council get passed and then people say what I can't take final I mean that feels like that could happen so I just talked to Danielle again today about the process she's still working on trying to pull we've had some challenges with consultations to a lot of work that she was intending on doing which slowed down the process but there always can be we have a core team of subject matter experts other local agencies water biologists watershed people so there always can be a staff recommendation or a task force recommendation and we would always present that with if we heard from Pratt, if we heard from the community and if he has a place to go so we also take that and just say you know what what we heard from Pratt was something that we could incorporate into our staff recommendations so we'll have time for that as well okay so I forget what it was June it was like two weeks and then it goes to council in July sometime was that the impression I'd get or it may be there's still some uncertainty on Friday as opposed to alliance in light of tonight's we don't want to start you together I guess is my point I absolutely agree that is a that process is probably what you know Steve and Kathy and the city are much more accustomed to where you're you're doing work as an internal group you're working out with you know other stakeholders in the community but then you reach out to your board and stuff and taking that into consideration before your final presentation you know I think we always are trying to go with the best thing that's gone through is this is what staff recommendation was perhaps supported water board supported it and you know here's where it ends up that doesn't always happen but that's kind of where we always like to try to make sure we're listening and reading information even if it is not being aligned with staff they would never go with that I guess I look forward to getting the update again I'm only asking about the time just being sensitive sensitized thanks I'm concerned Steve that was my question taking away one sorry that's one of the things right that's fine okay yeah so to build this levy over here behind a not as vulnerable on the river we need to imagine after the flood we came in and put a much bigger bottom material in there so it's a lot of sandy gravel aggregate material to build a true levy slash dam which is what this is going to be we need clay material and so that material I think is clay so it looks like the core has been working with the state engineers office for the clay construction probably from October to December January and then they'll be taking 18,000 yards of soil from the flooding over there replacing it with what we have over here it will last probably four or five months the duration of in three or four months winter yeah that was I was thinking certainly unfortunately the $10 million grant from the core takes precedence over a great flooding in all anyway so that money is tied through federal funding so we need to send it when it's available we're having a survey right now probably about half I think there's probably about 40,000 yards in that pile from what trail is sitting on between the pond and the creek right now over at the ball why would we take that and put it back at the park when the park is there in the future another part of the mound is not there another part of the mound is accommodated through the design of the rest of the park that mound was the master plan and the design development documents show that dirt being used in other locations throughout the park site so why take the crap stuff out there that's not crap, that's what we're using out there it's a great flow of flooding here it's not good for a levy but I don't know, it sounds scrappy to me it sounds like it would be scrappy people seed it and um yeah probably why are you saying that people turn like scrappy that's what the snow don't slide out in terms of snow it will be scrappy I think John said that I'm so sorry that was probably the big update that we did in confirmation in court that soil will be suitable what we need to do here will there be like notice I think and you might just talk about that there is a future sled hill that goes the future park has a sled hill over at the west side of the park so there will be a hermit sled hill there wasn't a lot of merit in hauling that soil all the way over to the other side of the park but we weren't improving at that point time I didn't see that that was on merit right creek, yeah probably four, yeah three, four years now seven projects and what actually what's interesting is that that's why this globalization is very concerning to Kathy and I and because if we depending on where the public slash council decides to put a rec center that's going to throw our entire work plan in the loop and we'll be changing priorities it's Montgomery farm Montgomery farm is not master plan yet what goes through a whole master plan process that whole park Clark Centennial is going to impact park renewals significantly dry creek is going to impact pushing other projects off and then quail is never going to happen I think Harold I think Harold is going to say that so how long it would take to come to rec center if anyone's like yeah it will include that I mean just like the difficulty of actually doing it we want to have that work done as a part of this study so that when if we ever go to the voters that we have a designated location and then then we'll have a blog to put out a master plan here's the rec center and we'll design everything else around it the dry creek already has that blog shown it'll be a little bit easier but I still want to go through studies and think we've learned more about that land since we've done a master plan so we still have to look at some practical and experience the place so it'll remove that but yeah that's what our practice rec center thing like it really is because recreation will manage the rec center but the park development is all going to fall in habit so that's what changes I just said one of the things in the meeting I was having plans on this morning it said you would talk about the crowd tour community so too late we didn't do that I I give a couple of things that I would share so the first item and I don't know Dan this involves Pickleball David and I have been meeting quite often with Pickleball folks it's our goal to the tennis association and the two of us meet with at least their board and get some feedback on the future of needs that tennis has as well as trying to use some joint views where Pickleball and tennis can play at the same locations and then we're going to bring the two groups together and have more conversation about what the future of both are and one of the things that Pickleball is really pushing right now is lining the courts at Dawson and we're also getting feedback from tennis that that would be a mistake because of any how they can use sanctioned tournaments and matches there they can't have Pickleball lines on the sanctioned court so we're working on that and we'll continue to do that Pickleball is it just seems to continue to grow put lines on the courts over at Art Centennial Steve Viscan courts included at Gallo and still there seems to be more demand than what we keep up with we may also put Pickleball lines underneath the pavilion under Roosevelt the challenge there is how you keep the ball in or it's not growing all over the place that they'll have to that would be really loud that would be really loud that would be interesting to hear going to the courts why the LTA court has a ping to me and that's great you should talk to them and get them all together they told me that they're like you they're not interested in having Dawson line because they have leagues meet at Pratt and Carr there needs to be five courts for a match so then they use one at Dawson and they would rather you took Clark Centennial and make six pickleball courts out of it and give up on tennis or Collier Park like we all did for Holberg they would rather just do that and not realign because of the whole USDA mumbo jumbo about double lining and I get it Parks and Rec would rather everybody can play I get all that and they may tell you this the guy I'm talking to most often is Scott the chairman and I think he's serious that there is no demand he sees not from LTA, maybe neighborhood tennis players would care but they just assume you put a whole bunch of courts at Clark Centennial and take the pressure off of Dawson for example like what happened at Holberg and Holberg is packed all the time I mean there are six courts playing and there's people waiting so do that again as opposed to at Dawson where it's just going to be two courts and that precludes tennis for a big you know a big empty space with two little pickleball courts in the middle it's a lot cheaper to pay in pines than it is to do that but can you guys add that to your list I mean you get three X the number of courts is a way to look at it you know I don't know yeah yeah they're not interested you go paint Dawson next week you know you guys are done I get it well the LTA folks said they were their question was should we be sending out letters to the folks to go to city council and resist Dawson I mean they're really worried really really worried about Dawson getting line so talk to them before you paint right now there's no plan from our point of view the paint line is there pickleball has a different ready then the other thing you know swimming season is rushing at us but lifeguards and pool managers are not so in the next week or two we are looking at what we should be able to safely open and it's not a great thing right now council was great enough to increase our minimum wage to 50 starting to have a little bit of impact with that with lifeguards but we're really struggling with pool managers right now and so we will once we've made the decision I will email all of you what that decision is on our hours just want to give you that head up that it's going to be pretty tough right now the second couple made up big earlier you had mentioned 15 so that might be lifeguards can be 15 in training it says that that's good I'm sorry you can't do it they can be 15 for all the jobs actually with lifeguards and other things are 15 according to the red cross you have to be 15 lifeguard training once you have that certification you will find 5 hours to TV because you're slow this year with some jobs just so you know they can still come that would be lifeguards not managers they can still come they can still be applying they seem to be slow it's only like a college students are kind of slow this year too yes I can help those teenagers at least my own teenager college too it's kind of slow but I'll decide it's our hope that we might have to start out smaller but as we're working through the year we'll be able to increase our hours to based on how many staff we can hire can you add an answer in the corner I have a question related to of course is this key part behind the web center is it already used yes I had some people ask if they could walk back I mean basically they could walk back I'm trying to pick a wall no one needs to work a wall pick a wall one of the best opportunities for pick a wall is in my skating the challenge is that the surface is always the best because it can be and so that's another thing we'll be talking about in the coming months so that center changed I remember back in olden days they had a lot of something like seniors pick a wall is it still advertised that way? it is there's so much demand we have to separate them and when younger people can play when the courts aren't available it's a difficult thing it's just amazing how many people are talking about pick a wall and it's not just one it's the market city or a group that's probably pick a wall stuff we had 200 people even percent of the online answer oh yeah then the older survey was the same people were on top of it you or he was filled they're all like meet more you don't understand and this is how it's going to go and they're like you go to dicks and the whole tennis section is gone it's all pickleball now it's amazing it's just incredible no I'll never play pickleball because it takes skill whereas on the tennis court I run around a lot and I do fine I would be involved in the important part of my game which is just a run I think it's all I'll give you a point if we introduce God that wall to the left make sure it's a different size court right? it's a hexagon it's a hexagon meet more lines any other items all right I'm making notes to adjourn at 8.40pm all right all those in favor can you close? all right meeting is adjourned I'm writing it now I'm so sorry you know