Welcome to DEF CON 17. I'm dead addict. Can I have a show of hands for everyone that was at DEF CON 1? Everyone that was at DEF CON 1? Excellent. Very good. Now, I hate to ask personal questions of the audience, but is there anyone in the room that's under 16? Anyone under 16? Thank God. I would feel so much older. If this room was packed, I swear to God like five hands would drop up and I'd be like, oh, you weren't born when this all started. There's more staff members at DEF CON 17 than there were attendees at DEF CON 1. This is going to be a rambling long tail of remembrances. I'm essentially going to try to do this speech in the same way, in the same methodology that I did my DEF CON 1 speech. You'll see later in one of these disheveled pictures somewhere my notes from my DEF CON 1 speech that are scribbled on a piece of paper that I wrote an hour before this speech. Let me give you a little background about myself and how this all started. That's who I was 17 years ago. I had longer hair then. Honestly, about two weeks ago my hair was that length, so it's not actually that dramatically different. This is who I am. I'm actually the same person. I'll be honest about that. I'm a little aged, but beyond that I'm the same person. 17 years ago I moved to Seattle and I moved from Arizona and I moved from the jurisdiction of Gale Thackeray. I don't know if anyone here knows who Gale Thackeray is. Any hands for remembrances of one of the more famous prosecutors of hackers, Operation Sun Devil. The prosecuting attorney for Operation Sun Devil lived in my area code. I was 18 or so when I was living in Arizona and I had the judgment of an 18 year old and the curiosity and desire to go where I shouldn't that many people in this room probably have to this day. At one point I asked her several years after knowing Gale, did you ever have a file on me where you're ever investigating me? And she's like, no, I didn't Eli. No, no, no file on you. I kind of felt insulted because there were six members of our crew, five of them got busted by Gale Thackeray.  But it looks bad and hackers are paranoid, particularly when they're getting busted. It's reasonable. It's a reasonable thing. So when I was 19 years old I moved to Seattle and one of the things I did when I moved is I checked out the local bulletin board scene and found the local interesting underground DBSs and I was a little bit of a social engineer at the time and so what I like to do is break into chat with a sysop and convince them how cool I was and how they should give me elite access. Not just to their silly elite areas but I want to be co-admin of everything. And that's kind of was my mentality. I was co-administrator of a lot of boards with lots of fun criminal activity going on. At the time I was a founding member of a group that had sort of dissolved, nearly dissolved that after I left the area which was the NSA, not that NSA, the National Security Anarchist. Years later I met someone from the NSA that they did what they call a background and he created a team called SNAC and he came up with the acronym first and then figured out what it meant later. And I'm like wow what a coincidence because I did the same thing a number of years ago. I think I was more amused about that than he was. So I moved to Seattle and I broke into chat with the dark tangent on the dark tangent BBS and with the intent of trying to con myself some co-admin access, unfortunately the darkest of tangents is more clever than most of us. And not only did I not get my co-admin access but suddenly he was talking about this nifty thing he was going to do and if I wanted to be helpful, which I didn't actually want to be as a co-admin I'll be honest, I just wanted the power and access and whatnot, but if I wanted to be helpful I would help him with a project he was working on called Defcon and I'm like oh that sounds like fun, bring together a bunch of hackers and Vegas was a different place at the time. Vegas wasn't trying to be friendly to families, they were pretty honest about their sin. You go to Vegas for debauchery, for alcohol, for gambling, honestly it was a sinister town filled with sin but there's honesty in the sin then and at the time no one in their right friggin' mind would ever go to Vegas in the middle of the summer. Now there's a huge convention business despite the economy that rolls throughout the entire year but at the time the middle of the summer in Las Vegas was a pretty empty place and a pretty reasonable cheap rate to get some conference space and DT handled all that, he chose the place, he chose the venue, you'll notice throughout this DT was the mastermind and I was the minion but I had vision as well and I had things to contribute. A number of years after Defcon had been existing, I was writing up a little bio about the beginning of Defcon and I was writing the beginning of Defcon, a small group of hackers and Jeff says to me, what are you talking about, a small group of hackers? It was just you and me dude. I'm like, oh okay, it felt like more and someone asked me recently what was Defcon one like and I'm like, well I've been researching it and unfortunately that's sort of true, I have been researching it. I don't know if many of you are veterans of Defcon but it's true that there will be occasional memory lapses if you're doing it right. So let me go back to a little bit about who I was. I was a member of a pirate group, I was one of the founders of that poor idea of the national security anarchists. I was kind of all about group affiliations. I was co-admin of a lot of things. Today I'm co-admin of nothing. I affiliate with no groups, I'm not a member of anything. I give the EF money each year and they're like, great, we'd like to sign you up. I'm like, no, no, here's some more money, I don't need to be on your rolls, that's fine. I guess what you would say more risk averse now than I was and I think that comes with age. And while I am all suited up, I will be honest, this is the first suit I've owned in my life and I just got this to look silly at the conference. So, that's Gail Thackeray. That's a sphere. I'll show you what that is for in a bit. Let me tell you a little bit about the philosophy that I had going into this. And DEF CON, the people talk about, well, was DEF CON the first hacker con? Not at all, DEF CON wasn't even close to the first hacker con. It was possibly, however, the first conference where everyone was invited. That wasn't an invite only conference. And the idea behind an invite only conference is kind of nifty. Well, it'll be secret and we'll just invite our friends and no one will know about it and it'll be an elite bunch of hackers, big secretive meeting. And if you look at the history of the computer background and when I first started, I read everything that was ever published about it, which in 1991 was actually a feat you could accomplish. And consistently, at every one of these conferences, at all these private elite small closed conferences, the feds were there. Law enforcement was there. They knew, they infiltrated all these BBSs.  So we decided, look, the feds are going to come and in our mind, feds was a generic term for law enforcement, for the intelligence community, for prosecutors, for all of those people that could possibly get us innocent folks who like to explore, they were the feds.  They're going to come anyways and if we invite them and if we ask them to come to our conference, then at least everyone at the conference will be painfully aware, yes, there are feds running around here.  Exercise some caution. But also at the time, and it was essentially, I kind of visualized this complex balance of things in my head and I sort of feel that balance is worked through the years and was a reasonable one. So one, let's bring the feds in. Two, well, sometimes feds, particularly back then when they were new to investigating cybercrime, sometimes the feds did inappropriate things. They busted people in inappropriate ways. They didn't follow due process. So we thought we'd invite the press, too. Because if there's anything that bad acts don't like and inappropriate actions by law enforcement government doesn't like, it's a big spotlight. So that was another equation. We'll invite the press. We'll recruit actively to get the press here. And we got the press. And I'll show you a couple of pictures of articles that were taken. Robert X cringely came. Someone from a UNIX world came. And I have a fax that we set off to Rolling Stone trying to get Rolling Stone to come and we're sort of begging them. So the other piece was civil libertarians. Lawyers. Well, let's get the feds here, the press to cover it and then the lawyers to defend and watch over everything if anything goes bad. Which all sounds kind of convoluted and silly but if you look back at the history of DEF CON having the civil libertarians here has been really, really useful. And the EFF turned into an organization instead of a grassroots sort of civil libertarian organization turned into an organization that's lobbying and a litigation based activism. Which I'm thrilled about. I continue to support the EFF. And we invited the EFF.  They couldn't get here because of financial reasons. But we invited the CPSR. Which were the computer professionals for social responsibility.  Initially they were going to call themselves nerds against nukes but they didn't think they'd be taken as seriously if they had that title. So we brought Gail Thackeray in and it wasn't an easy thing. It was probably the most difficult recruiting of any of the DEF CON 1 speakers certainly. I remember this conversation or I remember memories of this conversation because memory is a tricky thing and I don't know if I've given lengthy disclaimers yet but all of this could very well be fiction. It is based on 16 year old memories that alcohol fuzzed potentially.  We'd love for you to speak there. And Gail Thackeray and I don't blame her one bit for this. Her reaction was, really. So you want me to speak in front of a group of criminals and what, give them advice, tell them how to evade the law. What exactly do you want from that? And initially the first conversation didn't go well and I called her back a couple weeks later and honestly I have no idea how I convinced her to come and I credit her immensely. I can't credit Gail Thackeray enough. She had bravery. She stepped out of her comfort zone. She did something that undoubtedly her colleagues would tell her she was insane and what she did is she set a precedent I think and the precedent really was communication between law enforcement and the hacker community and there was some hostility, certainly because she'd prosecuted friends of many attendees including myself, but we gained insights about what they cared about and really there are bad people doing bad things and they use computers as tools to do those bad things and she realized and I think the law enforcement and we'll call them feds collectively realized that the people that call themselves hackers even though they might have broken countless laws and did so pathologically and continuously did not have the motivations that they expected from criminals. We were criminals that had no financial motivation. There was no crimes of passion. There wasn't violence associated. There wasn't, we weren't part of a mafia. Well, you know, of sorts. There was, to call the hacker community organized I think would be highly inappropriate and so I think what happened is that when she came she gained insight and then opened the doors to allow further law enforcement and whatnot to come and eventually at a certain point and I'll try not to look too much forward. I do want to focus on DEF CON 1 but eventually the threats that were in cyberspace were not from the hackers anymore. There are actual real scary criminals out there and for the most part law enforcement has all of their energies dealing with those bad scary criminals and so the people that explore not on the top of their agenda. Also at DEF CON 1 there was not a .com so well, or there might have just been a .com and I remember the crossover. I wasn't a university student so I had no .edu accounts and if I wanted to get on the internet largely I had to break the law. If I wanted to use a UNIX system largely I had to break the law and I remember when the first versions of Linux came out and my hacker friends were downloading it so they could hack themselves as opposed to hacking other people so they could hone their techniques on their own systems as opposed to learning how to exploit things on other systems. I'll get to Dan Farmer in a second. I want to talk about another one of my mistakes and there's a number of mistakes that I was involved with. Jeff did a lot of really good ideas that executed really well and I believe I contributed to that complex relationship of all the players that should be involved. I think I might have done that right but one of the things I did wrong was invite a friend of mine who was a mentor to me. His name was Dark Druid. He had more skills than I had. He was several years my junior. I was 18 or 19. I was 16 or so and he had creative abilities and created his own tax and really was a bright guy and he would have been a great speaker and he would have given a great speech. The problem was he was lived in my area code or my old area code 602 in Arizona and he was currently being prosecuted by Gail Thackeray. Dark Druid's speech ended up being about his passion for cars and it probably wasn't the most compelling content but I don't blame him one bit and that was certainly a tactical error on my part. Dan Farmer. Dan Farmer was, if I recall, the first corporate security type that we had and he didn't look like a corporate security type but he was working at Sun Microsystems and he had a lot of skills and he walked in the room with two girls on his side and I believe Robert X Cringley later characterized his presence at the conference as making out with those girls at the back of the room for most of the conference and then getting on stage eventually. And some of the contents of his speech were really quite impressive. Essentially he admonished all the hackers in the room and at first everyone was like, that's going to tell us to quit being bad and to quit messing stuff up. That wasn't really what Dan Farmer was all about. Dan Farmer was all about, you're doing it wrong. You're not using advanced techniques. If you want to hack, here's how you really should hack and then dropped a lot of deep knowledge on everyone and encouraged everyone to get more badass. Dan in some regards and throughout the years at DEF CON there have been other characters that have very large personalities and that are very well known and affectionately we'll call them rock stars. Now it's funny, it's famous rock stars in a global community of, I don't know, 15,000, right? So the rock stars when they go to DEF CON and when they go to other conferences they're not really rock stars but I would say Dan Farmer was the original DEF CON rock star and he was a character. Oh, let me see here. Let me show you some pictures. That is a sketch that DT did and the sketch was of the first DEF CON logo and scribbled on a piece of paper and kind of a rough sketch and I'd like to thank Dark Tangent by the way for getting me addicted and I am dead addict. Mr. Tangent got me addicted to Mountain Dew and I had no caffeine addiction before I met him but working on programs at 3 a.m. really fueled the Mountain Dew addiction and there's some shots from DEF CON there's Kale, ah yes. That was a fun shot. There was a professional photographer present and there was a sister of one of our speakers and the speaker, I explained so we had a civil lawyer at DEF CON and they were like, oh, what do they talk about it? And Curtis Karnaugh who's quite has built up an impressive resume over the years since he's been at DEF CON one but Curtis Karnaugh had a DEF CON one speech and the contents of it was legal implications of autonomous interactions of agents in cyberspace. So you have multiple independent autonomous agents that are authored by various parties and there's a transaction that begins from one and ends at the other and goes through all the ones in the middle and something goes wrong who's liable? And lawyers love that question, who's liable? That's their favorite question. That is a famous picture of people trying to hurt themselves in a bug and I was not in that picture thankfully because I think I would have gotten very hurt. So a little bit about the swag and yeah, come here with this please you're about to see the first DEF CON t-shirt ever and in the front you'll see the evolution of the design I showed you before and I think it's pretty nifty, 1991 that was dark tangent, dark tangent sketched it out I showed you the sketch earlier little gradient, a little work on that it's a clean t-shirt design that front is a good front and if you can turn that t-shirt around I'll show you my contribution that is how you don't design a t-shirt so there's a couple of elements there dense text in tiny fonts that require several minutes of you standing still with your back facing someone until they can finally read it now, just a quick resume advice for everyone here at one point, because I helped design that t-shirt I did the back and I'll tell you what that text is because you sure as heck can't read it easily but I put it on my resume I'm like oh, I did something and one day Microsoft contract agency called me up and say we saw that you have t-shirt design on your resume and there's this group in Microsoft that wants a group t-shirt design for their event and I said oh well I apologize I'm taking that moth my resume right now while I did do that I didn't do it well and you don't want me doing that so the advice is anything you don't ever want to do again or you weren't really good at take it off your resume even if you did it before and it's white so wow, this is nice and faded so let me read you a little bit from this at the top it says if privacy is outlawed only outlaws will have privacy and I think some of these things spoke to the original ethos of DEF CON the original kind of where our minds were protect your privacy protect your data use your rights while you still have them PGP is not a crime at the time Phil Zimmerman was being actively investigated for exporting PGP which he was accused of doing and there was some real concern that there'd be law enforcement action against him along with the EFF we invited Phil Zimmerman to DEF CON 1 and again there were financial issues that prevented him from coming and yeah, I don't one of my favorite moments of DEF CON 2 was pulling out a hacky sack and begging Zimmerman to try this hacking sack thing out and he was puzzled and didn't understand it and I begged him and he did and quickly two dozen hackers ran around in a circle and I did that merely so I could say I hacked with Zimmerman so there's some other dense text here and it's the Fourth Amendment the Fourth Amendment of 1789 the right of the people to be secure in their persons etc etc etc and there's the Fourth Amendment of 1995 and I'll see if I can read it here a little bit it's a quote from J.P. Barlow the right of the people to be secure in their persons houses, papers and effects searches and seizures may be suspended to protect public welfare upon the unsupported suspicion of law enforcement officials, any place or conveyance shall be subject to immediate search and any such places or conveyances or properties within them may be permanently confiscated without certain judicial proceedings so I'm kind of proud of those sentiments and those words were really good words and if any of you in the future should have a chance to design a t-shirt don't use lots of dense text thank you for that I was the other hand that was up when I asked who was at DEF CON 1 another idea we had for Schwag was notebooks at the time it was sort of a custom to have what we call hacker notebooks and it was just a normal notebook and what you would do is write obscure sometimes codified data of IP addresses and telephone numbers and login names and passwords and you'd scribble them incoherently and they'd be in margins and they'd be everywhere and sometimes there was some encoding so if anyone found that they'd have no idea what they're looking at seemed rather impractical so we created these it's a notepad for all this information and so you can write down all the system details and keep track of them in nice clean clear format and be able to refer to them later two large problems with this one, it's inappropriate to try to sell data that is easily duplicated to a bunch of hackers there are a few takers and by takers I mean they saw the pads of paper that we were selling they took one piece of them and then they walked away and if I recall with some exceptions throughout the history of DEF CON largely other than some DJs and if people pay money to DJs for their CDs obviously they can get that music online they're trying to support the artist that's very straightforward but as a rule the selling easily duplicatable data hasn't been done since so much the other concerning thing about these easy to read notepads was Gail Thackeray's endorsement which really wasn't a good thing that wasn't a pleasant thing I don't think it helped sales she was excited about these notebooks and she was explaining what a pain in the ass it was when they busted someone's door down and confiscated their notebooks to decrypt this massive data that was so hard and it was almost useless and if hackers would just use this notepad their job would be so much easier fuck now if she really wanted to help her cause she would have said what a horrible thing it was to tear it away and that'd be that'd be very bad one of the things I remember Gail Thackeray saying at DEF CON 1 was and the quote is drug dealers give themselves better legal advice than hackers do and essentially what that means is when you're hacker buddy that you're sitting next to is trying to know here's how the law works fucking listen to them the EFF has a booth there's actual lawyers running around the device is generally not good an example that she used and she found hilarious was the banners and BBS's and also the quizzes you had to get into the elite access of these BBS's I don't know if anyone remembers this but there was a time when if you wanted to get access to the illegal illicit content or bad things were happening by doing that you would have to I don't know list off what acronyms meant that were computer related and answer a bunch of silly questions and any jack oh also you had to affirm solemnly affirm that you were not a member of law enforcement you did not work for a software company you did not work for the business software association to make all these assertions Gail Thackeray called that intent yeah and the analogy she uses there's no magic words you can say to a hooker to ensure that they're not actually an undercover police officer police are allowed to lie in these things police are allowed to lie and furthermore to I think the community's embarrassment she collected all these banners and like put them all together and pass them around her law enforcement friends and got a huge chuckle over the whole thing there are a number of questions that Gail Thackeray fielded when she spoke and they were pretty hilarious too and they went something like this so Gail if I have or I have encrypted on my hard drive 40 gigs or whatever the appropriate data size of people's hard drives was back then I have no idea of data and then I transfer that data via an encrypted link to my friend on the other side then they get the 40 gigs worth of wares and Gail and a number of these she like rolled her eyes and put her head down and she's like hypothetically you mean hypothetically if you had this data you're trying to transfer from one point to the other and I could see and she didn't have arrest powers and honestly she didn't want to bust anyone there and here I'll go back there's a picture of me and Gail in this picture me and Gail sitting down having some beers, having some drinks having a good time and someone's like hey mind if we take your picture and she's like oh yeah that's great and take pictures no problems and I'm like hey let's cheers to hanging out and having fun and I was 19 at the time Gail lovely lovely person she was might have assumed that I was underage not her problem per se but at that point she's like hey DA you don't happen to have an idea on you with your age on it or anything at the moment do you and I'm like oh shoot I think I left it in my hotel room and she's like so why don't we just put down these beers and then we'll take the picture and that was lovely and I was willing to do so and it was a very gracious thing for her to allow Mark Ludwig was another one of our speakers Mark Ludwig was the author of the little black book of computer viruses and he was quite a character and the Def Con 1 speeches are online and I recommend you review them except for mine which I enjoyed giving that speech it was a fun speech to give Mark Ludwig I think was a very keen representation of the libertarian tendencies within the hacker community and he was very much a libertarian and strongly held libertarian beliefs and he got a lot of resistance from the antiviral community and he had hostility towards them as his little black book of computer viruses contained assembly code so you could yeah and anyone that wants to type in assembly code from a book, I don't know I remember typing in programs from magazines way back one but have fun with that but he believed in the First Amendment strongly and he was passionate about the First Amendment and I think that's something that we've all had throughout the years and has been a running theme of Def Con and I'm thrilled about that and one of the things that he pointed out if I recall in a speech was that in Arizona you needed a license to own a printing press and he was indeed a publisher so this directly affected him but it was very disturbing to him the idea that the government could revoke your right to publish at any time now presumably the reasons for this is if you actually owned a printing press there were dangerous chemicals and you had potentially toxic material that you had a lot of and I won't speak to the merits of that argument or what the intent was of the Arizona legislature and creating that license and frankly I don't even know if the accuracy of the statement but it was an interesting thing he said and worthy of thought for me this was our original badge and it's tiny and it's laminated and I'm not sure if this one was counterfeited but over the years if you notice the progression of badges they get more and more complex there was one I think it was printed in Austria that had oil and little things that moved around in the oil all of these things were to prevent counterfeiters and we appreciate the sentiment of counterfeiters and we never really disliked them but it was a bit of a war and the people would counterfeit our badges and then we'd be like fine we'll make better badges next year and if you've noticed the badges over the past few years if you can recreate those various boards good on you and you'd probably get a prize at one point we tried to track down someone that we had had the understanding he'd been counterfeiting badges for years and years and years and we wanted to talk to him the thing was he wasn't actually mass counterfeiting and he was counterfeiting them for personal use and when we wanted to talk to him we wanted him to speak at our conference about the process that he went through in counterfeiting these materials I'm not sure he ever believed in the sincerity of the offer it was sincere but he didn't necessarily follow through I think there's one more directory here that has some interesting pictures soon soon there are a number of press articles written about us there we go there's the notepads the bust mean notepads I think we later called them the future of the computer underground I believe was my first speech and I ended up speaking two or three times at DEF CON merely because other speakers fell through and they dropped off and suddenly we had an empty slot in DEF CON 1 there's one track of speaking maybe 120 people there but when one person drops out and you only have one track you really need to come up with something else so I had a lot of fun with the future of the computer underground I remember one of the predictions I had would be the ubiquitousness of Windows NT on the internet and essentially it wasn't on the internet at all at the time it was sort of a crazy and silly prediction why would people run Windows machines on the internet still a valid question I'll give you that I'm not sure I was vindicated or saddened by the end result of that ah yes and that picture and you saw a larger picture earlier the woman photographer I think that was an interesting look at what early press was and there were sort of two types of reporters that have covered DEF CON over the years and we tried to get rid of one of those types and I mean no local no offense to anyone who's local to any area anywhere but local media I think they came to DEF CON 1 I think we told them to leave we didn't want those articles and the depth of the reporting and the focus of the reporting oh my god scary hackers was not so much and that picture essentially the photographer chose the most interesting looking people and that was the basis of her composition which is a fair thing she's a photographer she composes images and the relevance of the people involved it really didn't matter she just wanted a pretty picture and later years CNN would show up and in this case photographer doing some personal photographs no end game and showed up in this magazine new media magazine which has since been defunct but CNN would later come to DEF CON and they would use the same strategy well we see a guy with a mohawk we would like to talk to him we have three minutes that we're going to show about your conference and there's several people with piercings that look menacing that we would like to talk to really well we have lots of bright people here some of them kind of look different no no no we want the mohawks and if you've noticed there hasn't been any CNN coverage or CBS or any nighttime news or anything like that no three minute spots we don't want them and in the beginning I had a passion about media and since then I've been a press goon for the past number of years and at one point I said I was about 40% of DEF CON 1 and DEF CON 1 was a lot of planning and I didn't realize how much work it was until I went through my old files and then I saw all this source material all these people we tried to contact all this work that we did beforehand and I didn't have that memory at all and now is incredible and there's probably 200 staff members and months and months of prep work that go into it before the conference the article that you see if you'll notice it's called what was your best hack and I think that was also indicative of the quality of the media and I know that journalist and she was a lovely woman and I have nothing against her but that was the sort of perspective that the security there was no such thing as security press by and large and it was mainstream media attempting to cover these security related issues now there's not only technical press that's focused on technical issues but there's also security technical press and there's actually reasonable coverage that's being given to issues and by and large we try to vet those reporters that try to get into this conference so hopefully they're not jackasses and there I am if you look under the over heard if you can read that at all this is from Unix World 1993 and I guess you'd say at the time I might have been considered what you call a media whore and I was happy to talk to all media about anything now I'm happy to give them background on things and don't really want to be quoted as much one of the good things about our friend Unix there's source code there which wasn't entirely true because Unix didn't exactly come with source code Linux came with source code and I misspoke and Unix World happily quoted me and I found that very interesting Robert X Kringely he was the biggest reporter that we had that came to DEF CON and he was an interesting character one of the lovely things about Vegas 17, 16 years ago all cellular traffic was analog this made for a lot of fun the amount of people with radios percentage wise was much, much higher than it is now and those radios were modified so they could listen on anything they wanted and listening in on telephone conversations hasn't really been a hobby of mine but it's been a hobby of friends of mine in the past and I've been at their house while they're going through and listening to various conversations and much like reading email telephone conversations are boring not only are strangers telephone conversations boring but if you think about it over here what your friends are saying on the phone sometimes and just listen to their conversations boring honey I'll be home at this time okay we'll pick up some eggs and stuff I'm going to be late for this sorry boss I'm not feeling well people have boring telephone conversations similarly they have freaking boring email unless you're targeting some attack to read someone's email reading volumes of emails about as interesting as reading youtube comments there was an exception however and that was Las Vegas Las Vegas is an interesting city telephone conversations in Las Vegas are a lot more fun some of the toughest drug laws in the country and yet apparently lots of drugs being consumed in this city and people were happy to chat about that on their cellular phones that's fun again prostitution it's illegal in this city very very interesting illegal in this city as it is most places in the country it's illegal in the state but it's illegal in the city and yet lots and lots and lots of conversations regarding prostitution and essentially sex and drugs I mean all you have left is rock and roll and you can listen to that you don't need to listen to conversations about that it was good stuff Robert X cringely received a phone call because all there was was analog cell phones he received a phone call while I was at the conference he was in the main conference room and to be polite he started to move outside of the conference room so we could have a conversation without a little bit of privacy but as his phone rang four or five scanners suddenly went off and his conversation there was almost feedback going on and while I did leave the room I think he realized there wasn't much of a point of it yeah cringely was lots of fun Vegas hackers reveal hidden calls in Windows 3.1 to LA party girls which pretty much was typical of his writing style at the time and the info world articles that he wrote but at the time info world for me was this sort of seminal publication to keep track of the industry was a weekly magazine there wasn't a worldwide web when DEF CON started so how you got your information was weekly magazines like this and I read them thoroughly and it was quite a thrill to have cringely around does anyone have any questions does anyone have any wonder about what happened at DEF CON 1 I'll admit there are certain things that I will not reveal on stage taped and I'll also admit that makes for potentially somewhat of a less interesting talk but as Gail Thackeray told me several years after knowing her when I was pretty excited because I quit being active at about right before DEF CON 1 and after 7 years passed by I was thrilled because suddenly all of those potential crimes that I had committed were all eased away by history now I'm going to tell you this but please don't take it as legal advice please go see a lawyer if you have questions about this sort of thing um Gail told me this about the Statue of Limitations as I was giddily bouncing about being able to suddenly tell all these fun tales about my poor judgment youth and I'm like yeah I can finally talk and Gail says well you misunderstand how the Statue of Limitations works he's dead addict the way it works is the clock starts ticking the moment we realize a crime occurred fuck not fair I mean it's true I never got caught for anything but the mere fact that I never got caught maybe means that no one ever knew that any crimes were committed so 15 years later as I'm telling old war stories I don't want cuffs slapped on me again this is not legal advice but you might want to think about this before telling your war stories or fuzz them appropriately um we've come a long way since then I think DEF CON have stayed the same and those elements that made it interesting and there are other things that went on at DEF CON like rating AT&T and trashing them in Las Vegas arguably the most secure city in the country let's go rate the local telco um and these were things that were initiated by attendees and essentially that's been a tradition that sort of started at DEF CON where everyone will go ahead and do something and attendees have essentially created all of the auxiliary content the things other than the speeches, the contests the game shows, all of these things have been created by attendees who have an idea and they say wow wouldn't it be cool if we could do this and Dirk Tangent's response is oh if you want to do this then we'll provide some space and if it works out maybe we'll advertise you next year and essentially this entire conference is created by the attendees and by the people who have a passion for the conference and one of the things we always like to say is DEF CON is not a spectator sport and I there are legitimate complaints to be had with the crowding the hallways at times, the logistical problems that occur but by and large when people complain about their DEF CON experience as a whole I tell them DEF CON is what you make of it um and throughout the years I often think about the time in between DEF CONs as just filler time between when I really live and I hope you all have an excellent time at DEF CON and thank you for coming and thank you


I'm Dr Emma Saunders. I am the General Manager at Genesis Biosciences. We are a biotechnology company that specialises in research and development of microbial and antimicrobial technologies. Genesis has two main areas of focus. The first is our microbial technology and we research and develop different strains of beneficial bacteria for different applications, industrial applications. The other area is our antimicrobial technology, which uses essential oils and plant extracts to combat pathogenic bacteria and odours. At Genesis, we are focused on our ECO benign foundation and the one common element is that we are using nature to do what previously harsh chemicals were only able to achieve. Our innovation has been recognised by a number of industry awards including the Cardiff Business Awards in 2015 and the ED Sustainability Leaders Awards in 2015. The nomination for the St Davies Awards means so much to us as a business because it gives us a recognition for the great work that our team are doing, our microbiologists and our biochemists are working on. It instills such pride in all of us as a business and really drives us towards more innovation.


are live. We are live. How's everyone doing today? Hey, Amanda, how are you doing in Mexico today? I'm great. It's hot in Mexico today. I bet it's hot here in Vancouver. Mm hmm. What's the temperature there? It was 26 degrees. They got six o'clock this morning. 32 degrees over here. How much? 32 degrees. Jeepers. Nice. Well done. That's why we're almost the same color. Yeah, it's an unbelievable time to be here in Vancouver. The weather's fantastic. I know that the weather's always fantastic for you in Mexico. So it doesn't really matter. Can I? And you're there because it's always hot. But I guess at this time of the year, it's probably even hotter. So speaking of hot, the markets have been hot. Stock markets been hot. Cryptos have been hot all year, despite the fact that many predicted, I mean, almost everybody predicted a recession in 2023. 2023, like usual, the market always does the opposite of what everybody expects. This year has been an absolute boom in the market for tech stocks, AI stocks, the NASDAQ, S&P 500, Dow Jones, Bitcoin, Ethereum, all the top cryptos all up. Well, you know, wasn't it just January that everything launched? It was. It was January when the markets went, and here we are, 5th of July. Oh, happy 4th of July and happy Canada Day, everybody. Happy holidays for everyone in Canada, the United States and everywhere else in the world. And it's been an amazing remarkable first half of 2023. And we just want that momentum to continue for the second half of 2023. And typically this is the worst time of the year for the markets. This is the slowest time of the year for the markets. Everyone's on vacation. It's hot outside. People don't want to be sitting in front of their computers for July and August. Usually I'm not to say they won't. I mean, we're doing it. We're always in front of the computers. But the average person is at the beach going outside, boating. They're doing things. They're enjoying their summers, for the most part, right now in North America. And let's talk about the markets. What do you see in the markets? Well, starting to see a little bit of drama. So we always... I can't see your screen though. Oh snap. Okay. Let me share my trading view here. Bear with me. Yeah, no worries. There we go. Now you see it. Now I see it. Yes. Okay. Well, before we talk about Bitcoin, because that's my favorite thing to talk about, I think we need to look at the broader markets. So what happened today? Powell, we already knew that Fed Minutes were coming out and it was already a big topic. Like they leaked the bag a little bit a few weeks ago, right? Yeah. And so now the bag has been leaked. Last time we did this live was when he started talking about, you know, needing to raise interest hikes again and all this kind of stuff. And here we are. Now, this news pretty much just hit the market about half an hour ago. So looks like it's a mixed bag of opinions already. Like the NAS is still green. The Russell 2000 is really green. You see that? Yeah. And the US 30 isn't so sure what to do. So it had a pretty big drop this morning. And then now it's just kind of sitting there. But I think it's going to start coming down now because it's really been up and down since market opened this morning. Well, we also have to talk about the fact that the market's pretty high up. I mean, when you look at the 52-week high, we're right there. I mean, we're right by the two-week high. Well, sell in May and go away didn't happen this year. No. Which is really weird. The market's really high. So as an investor right now, I think you need to be very cautious with chasing some of the big tech stocks that have done very well and AI stocks, because a lot of them are trading at or around 52-week highs. I think when we talked about the Ubers and the Teslas and the Metas that were down and we were talking about them, and they've all come up now and done extremely well, I think now is where you need to start thinking about taking profits. And I think you need to wait for the next drop, the next correction to buy into a lot of those trades because it's no longer a good trade. It's a momentum trade now. Alleluia did that. I mean, that's what we're saying is that we didn't have a sell in May and go away, which was really odd. So we knew it was coming. Now we just saw Apple popped the 52-week high, Facebook's popped the Meta as popped the 52-week high. We have a lot of 52-week high being popped, a lot of them. I pulled up Costco earlier. I think I still kept it on my list. 52-week high, Walmart, 52-week high. There's so many of them because we haven't had a sell in May. But this is the 5th of July and Powell just admitted today that he thinks he's going to have to do a quarter point for the next two quarters. So that brings us all the way to Christmas rally. But that's not new news. We knew that, right? We knew that because he did say when they did the pause that they're probably going to have to do another two rate hikes, like he said it. So I don't think that's a surprise. If anything, if they can do the next couple meetings 25 and then 25, I think what that does is it would set us up for a nice rally if they pause at the end of the year for another late year rally if they do one or two pauses. That would be phenomenal because I mean, how much higher do you really want to go with the rates? I mean, that's what's causing the real estate to filter, right? Yeah. So that's what I mean. You're ready at 5%. Yeah, you do another 50 cents. So now you're up 5.5%. You're not going to want to go too much higher than that. Agreed. And then we also have US elections all start happening around that time as well. They don't want to be pushing the market into a flat out recession come beginning of the year because that's not going to look so good. But if they have an increase, let's say here at the end of July, and then they have an increase in September, and then they pause in October, that's boom for the market, October, November. And if they do like another pause, let's say November, December, boom, like that just sets us off for a great start to 2024. That's right. Because this is what the minutes were basically saying is that, okay, I have the whole thing here and I know you can't see it, but I just wanted to give you like a couple little things here, a little. So the participants are favoring a 25 basis point increase noted that the labor market remained tight and momentum and economic activity has been stronger than an earlier expected. So it's like they did a pause as an experiment. And this is what Canada and Europe both did. And then they went back to hiking. So basically, we already had four consecutives, then we had a pause. And now it looks like they're going to go for a couple more. They want to bring inflation back to a 2% goal. So it looks like that. I mean, today the ISM came out like marketing manufacturing report, and that was showing lower than expected. So that means the economy isn't so good as they wanted it to be right now, which favors him to do another rate hike. That comes at the 25th of July. Yeah. So that's right. So that's why I think, yeah, he's going to do it for sure. And the market's hot. So why wouldn't you do it? I mean, we've been running. So nothing's been slowing this market down. But look at how we've been peeking out here. Like it's like every time we hit this 34, 34, 5, we're pulling back, pulling back. Yeah, that's why I think that like personally, if I'm an investor, which I am, I've been selling. I've been in a cell mode. I've been selling everything that's been doing well. I have not been buying. I've been in cell mode because everything is high, right? So where I have been buying actually is more like resource stocks, which are down right now. So I feel like that's going to be good. I think gold, lithium, silver, resource plays are setting up nicely. But like tech stocks, AI stocks, for me personally, that move is already done. I'm not sure about that. I'm not chasing. I'm not listening. We'll get into that later. That's just an opinion. I might be wrong. I'm not saying it can't go higher. Of course it can go higher. For me personally though, I can't wrap my head around the fundamentals. Because when it's a bubble, that's what I mean. So when the bubble starts to go, starting to jump in now, when I'm already in a lot of stuff, it's almost like it's too late. Even though I know it's probably not. I feel like it is. So I'm still trying to play it safe right now because I've already did a lot of those trades. I've already benefited from the move in Bitcoin this year greatly, benefited from the move in Ethereum, benefited from the move in Apple, Tesla, Google, Amazon, BTBT. I've been able to sell all of those this year. I've been really happy. So it's worked out really well. And I'm still holding most of my Bitcoin and Ethereum ETFs and stocks and miners and all of my Bitcoin and Ethereum haven't sold any of that either yet. So I feel like we still have a huge run for Bitcoin. I think so too. I think it's going to have a healthy pullback just to trend line. Actually, let's talk about Bitcoin before we get into the rest. Because Bitcoin has been really quietly up 86% this year. Exactly. I remember Goldman Sachs calling it their best performing asset. We actually have Goldman Sachs in here too. Because one thing that I think we need to talk about and just like you're saying, we have to be strict to reality in, yes, we've just seen seven months of highs. And I've been selling too. I sold my Airbnb, got just 32% profit. I was in just over $100. So I sold it just over 130 earlier this week. So I sold my Airbnb. Well done. Thank you. I'm going to talk about guys, buy low, sell high. You want to be 75 to 85% large caps, 15 to 25% more risky plays. And you want to use those risky plays and sell them when they're up to buy more dividend stocks and large caps that give you protection in your portfolios. You don't want to get decimated by holding too many small risky trades. And one thing I feel really proud of is I've been turning a lot of people that are Shiba Inu Ripple holders into Bitcoin holders. Yeah, because I just feel like I'm trying to explain to people like you can't be a real Bitcoin or crypto enthusiast and not own a little bit of Bitcoin. Exactly. If you want to just throw your money and catch it. Like when you talk to me about Shiba Inu or Dojo Ripple, I like it. Don't get me wrong. But that's like 1% of my portfolio. 71% of my portfolio is Bitcoin. As it should be. And you know what? It's the same with stocks is that you don't want to have. And then we talk about this, like usually the 80 or 85% in solid, solid stocks so that if things go awry, you're not going to get murdered. You just have a little bit of drama because sometimes the drama can be a lottery ticket. But if you don't have any safety in there, you're going to get screwed. So like I did a little play on Blackberry earnings and it was risky. Okay, I was like really nervous. But earnings were coming out last week. So I got in and I actually ended up taking a nice profit. So I got back out of my Blackberry. I got out of, I still had some hot eight. So I sold my hot eight. I sold most of my Bitfarms. I have a little bit left actually just yesterday. And I was like, I talked to you about it. I was hurting me because it came up because I mean, I've been in under 150. And then it came up to 202. I think it was 202. And I was like, Bitcoin was starting to come down. And so I sold. And then it went all the way up to like 220. I was like, ah, FOMO. I sold too soon. But whatever, because you've got to just stick to your guns, right?  I'm really good at selling in profit. I do not let my profits disappear. Like that's just something I do not do. I've been around too long to let my profits disappear. I don't care if it's real estate. I don't care if it's stocks. I don't care if it's crypto. I don't care if it's NFTs. I literally sold NFTs earlier this year and then they started to go down. Like I don't care. I have no sympathy about selling in profit. That's why I invest. I invest to win, right? What I struggle with and I know this is selling when I'm down. That hurts my soul. That hurts everybody's soul because we're human beings. Yeah. Because when you take money that you work for and then you put it into something and then it shrinks and then you sell it, you feel like it's the biggest kick and you don't know how to handle it. And for me, it's a struggle. So what I've learned through that and learning about myself as an investor, don't invest in bad deals. Just do it, right?  And nothing's a sure thing when you invest, but as sure of a thing as possible.  Do the research. Drive around your neighborhood. Make sure you're not buying in the wrong area. Same thing with stocks. Make sure with stocks, you're investing in a company that's making money, growing in revenues, is checking all the boxes, has a tight share structure. That's one of the reasons why I believe in Bitcoin so much because they check all the boxes, tight float, great technology, massive global adoption, massive institutional adoption, Bitcoin have incoming, they're literally checking every single box. So it's very hard for me to sell Bitcoin or sell anything Bitcoin related right now because I really believe it's going to go much higher. And even though it's up 86% this year, not that it can't go down because it's up 86% this year. Yeah, but I think it's only going to test trendline. That's why I just drew the trendline here. Yeah, I feel like we're looking at like a two, two and a half year bull market for Bitcoin right now. So that's really exciting. We've returned, I mean, yes, I've been calling this a danger zone, but this is the zone that beautiful things can happen. Because beautiful things have happened to you before. So, you know, we have a little bit of a drama right now with the ray hike. And yes, I do think being at all time highs, there's going to be some profit pulled. And I know a lot of Bitcoiners have been pulling off that little bit of profit here. So is it going to last highly doubted, highly doubted, because now that we have institutions in here, institutions are seeing these trend lines, and they're seeing what's happening. So of course, they're going to be this is accumulation nation right now. So I fully expect that we're going to have a pullback back into this mow somewhere. And then I wouldn't doubt if the rocket starts, because this is rocket material. This is right where we are. So, you know, when we were here last week, they were talking about people were like, Oh, no, all the ETFs got canceled, they didn't, they weren't canceled, they just needed to have a little bit more clarity. SEC was stalling clearly. They wanted a little more clarity on the filings that surely didn't get canceled. That means it's not off the table. Oh, no, it means that they're doing everything properly, so it can be approved. And that's exciting. That is exciting. That's exciting. Now, in some ways, it's going to bring more shorting. More institutions is going to bring more shorting. So you need to be aware of that is going to be just need to be aware of the targets that institutions are going to be hitting. It's going to be crazy volatility. It's going to be crazy volatility. So you know, institutions that we're buying at 15 and 16, when they started getting in at 15, 16, the smart ones, they're selling right now at 30. That's right. They're doubling their money because they just got to hunt you on it. Yeah. So that's why there's so much resistance right now. But when we get through that resistance, get through all of that selling. My goodness, like the sky's the limit. This is the zone. So I think all we need is a little pullback for the rocket fuel. That's it.  And we've seen that before. And I think there's going to be some drama that's going to come through in the retail investors like, Oh, no, what's happening? The sky is falling. And then when you least expect it, those institutions are going to see that trend line and be like, let's go. So I think we just got to be ready for it. And I think this is the pullback area. So hang tight. And this is, this is pretty much the go zone. So as soon as we have that next pullback, it should be super juicy. And like the NASDAQ never fails these days, does it? Been on fire. Unbelievable. And Bitcoin and NASDAQ kind of go together. It has been for a while. Because they're tech. It's innovation. Bitcoin is technology. NASDAQ is tech. They just go together. And weirdly enough, there's a couple of trades that haven't moved, even though they're heavily correlated to Bitcoin. Now one is Tesla. That's done well. But a couple like PayPal. Tesla's chart looks like Bitcoin these days again. No, I know. Tesla's moving with Bitcoin and the NASDAQ, but PayPal isn't. Square isn't. I know. I've been waiting on my square. My square has just been sitting dead. I got in just over 16. What I'm trying to say. So PayPal and Square or Blocknow, those are the trades I'm looking at right now. I think, I don't like PayPal as a use case, but they're still are getting used. And so not long ago when we looked at the financials, we looked at PayPal, I actually think it could rock it.  So that's when you start looking at those and you start saying these guys are next, just like Google and Amazon, way behind Meta and way behind Tesla. But now Google and Amazon are starting to make their move and Apple is making their move. So it's like, eventually all the good plays will make their move. And these are all in the NASDAQ. That's why the NASDAQ has not stopped. It's just a straight line app. And I've been in all those trades. I'm like living in all those trades, living in all those trades. But I was in PayPal and Block and I traded and made money and now they're down again. So I'm really thinking about buying those again. Just like, I mean, look at the US 30. These are the Warren Buffett boring stocks. Sorry, but the boring to me. And then, so here's the US 30, kind of dead, flat lined at the top. And then here's the NAS. Look at that explosion. He's gorgeous. Oh yeah, NASDAQ has been absolutely on fire. So that's why I've been saying like personally, we're looking at getting close to all time highs in the market in the summertime. When everybody said we're going to be in a recession, this is starting to remind me of the bubble that happened in 2021. You got it. Same. I was just going to say that. Where the market went up and there was no reason for it to go up because everyone was in the middle of a pandemic. We're all stuck in our houses, but yet the market's going up. It didn't make any sense. We'll look at it right now. That's what's happening again. The Russell 2000 is going up. And when the, when the pandemic started, we saw the Russell 2000, all the small caps are rising just like the NASDAQ. The Russell 2000 and the NASDAQ, look at these two are both rising right now. And the US 30 and the SPX are kind of like meh. Isn't it gorgeous? Yeah. So look at the Russell 2000. So this is the small cap index. There's a nice little pump on here, isn't there? Yeah, but the small caps haven't moved yet. I think the small caps are going to have to make their move soon. So there will be a time for us to really take advantage of the small caps. And I think that time is coming. Probably September, October, we're going to see them really explode. They might even start right now. It looks like it is. Because honestly, it's been sitting at the bottom. I mean, when you look, okay, here's the Russell 2000, take a gander at that chart. When you're looking at the US 30, it looks like they've almost switched off. There is a switch off. This is quite a bit higher. And the Russell 2000 is down here. As people start to take the profits off the large caps, which we're doing, because that was our safe zone before, they move into small caps. And so this is like, it's like the relay, you know, we want to see the Russell right up here, kind of like the US 30 is playing pretty much in that zone. And I think it's absolutely coming. Because there's been quite a bit of liquidity has gone into the banks lately, and it's not going into large caps. I think it's coming into here. Speaking of, let's take a look at oil. Oil is creeping. We got a couple of oil stocks to look at today. I don't, I think we've got to be really cautious about this at the end of the month. Because at the end of the month is where we see rate hike and the rate hike can affect oil. Always does. And oil typically in the summertime, oil is not going to be as expensive because, you know, heating costs and stuff. So I think that this is usually the best time to start thinking about buying oil in the summer. And you're typically going to see the price of oil will go up in the winter and in the fall, where people are spending more money to heat their homes and spending more money to do those types of things. So that's typically when you see the prices of oil and gas go a little bit higher. So this group of that rate in the chart, if you look historically. So here is like, right here you see it. This is wintertime. Yeah. So you want to, you want to be positioning yourself now for the move in oil and gas because we typically, you know, this is the summer and oil's been bouncing between 65 and 80 all year. But look at it did that before. And then as soon as the end of the year comes, we end up here. Hey, listen, I would be very happy if that happens at the end of the year. You know this. And you know what? There's been a tightening on supply as well, right? Because Saudi doesn't want to let as much go. Then there's, you know, all the Russia drama. And I don't see why we couldn't see that. So I think it's going to be a little bit volatile until the end of the summer. But then history repeats itself. And this to me looks pretty much just like this. So we're bottom up traders. That's why we look at this stuff. So I got a couple, a little spattering of oil in here. But I think if you want to play some drama, we're going to take a look at this. So people are just digesting the fact that Powell just said we're going to have a couple consecutive rate hikes. This is July. Like you said, we haven't had a pullback and we're two months late from our normal pullback. We've been getting paid for seven straight months. Nonstop. It's not dramatic to have a pullback. It's a normal healthy market. It's just caused by some rate hikes this time. So I think pay very close attention. The dollar's going up, gold is going down and all the volatility indexes are looking healthy. Check this. So I'm just going to go through these ones quickly so we can get into some stocks. So in May, let me back out a little bit more. There we go. So we topped out in February. Kind of seems like that could happen again. Yeah. This is the short-term futures ETF. Yeah. Again, if we're going to see these rate hikes start, this is where these volatility indexes are going to start waking up and they're definitely waking up from a pretty intense bottom. Well, yeah, because when everything has gone down, now what you're doing is looking for things that can go up. When everything's gone up and now you're looking for things that can go down. This is how you make money if the market goes down. So this is a smart trade. This is the type of trades I like to look for. Smart trades like this that you can actually make money with the volatility and make money with the market going down from highs because we're at highs. So you know that at some point they're going to go down. The question is when. Right. So all these volatility indexes and these are a good time, not a long time because when the market gets healthy, they're going to come back down. Right. This is like a playing against the market. Yeah. And they're like literally at the bottom. Literally eating the dust, which is great. Wow. That's where the money is. So this is the Dow short. Yep. So as we look, so the Dow is US 30 for anybody that doesn't know. And as we looked, this is pretty much exactly this chart in verse. Just right. It's so funny how the market works because last year everybody gave their money to shorters. And this year the shorters are giving their money right back. You know it. They're probably just going to come in here and tap these just to like hedge that out if they're not tapping it. I like these types of trades because I don't like the short because they're super risky. But this is a way to short the market without having the risk because you own a stock. That's right. You don't have to worry about a margin call. You have to borrow shares. And yeah, you're not buying on margin. You don't have to worry about a margin call. You're buying a stock so you can hold it as long as you want. Exactly.  So, you know, and it's bound to get ugly because we're at an all time, we've been touching that high and it's projected so many times. So there's good profits in here. And you don't even have to be a rocket scientist to see where the supports of resistances are. Look at that. That's a good trade rate there too. Shorting the NASDAQ right now. Great trades. Great smart trades. Very smart trades. SQQQ guys, if you want to short the NASDAQ and SDAO if you want to short the Dow Jones, great trades. Smart. That's true because even if the NASDAQ, even if the companies in the NASDAQ are still healthy, when interest rate is hiked, people have to cover their butts. And how do they cover their butts? They sell some shares that are in profit. When they sell shares that are in profit, it doesn't mean the company is going to crap. It doesn't mean it's all over. It just means that entities that are larger than us need to pad their pockets. Otherwise, their bottom line doesn't look so good. So yeah, this is pretty, pretty juicy actually if you ask me. Okay, here's the VXN. NASDAQ, again, NASDAQ volatility index, big, big spikes in valleys. So just be a little bit careful. This is one we added not too long ago. So this is short the Russell 2000. This one, because we just talked about the Russell 2000 looking like it's ready for a spike, I wouldn't stay in this one too long because it really seems, and I agree with Rich TV, as soon as like August, September, October starts coming. I really think that once the real estate market starts correcting more, real estate, there's going to be a lot of people, especially with interest rate hike. There's a lot of people priced out of the mortgages. When people get priced out of the mortgages, they're looking for that quick way to make money. The quick way to make money for them on a psychological level is going to be hitting the small caps. And the small caps is where the Russell 2000 lives. Hey, Sam Ham got added to the Russell 2000. You see that? Wow. Yeah, I did. That's AI stock. Yes.  So yeah, if you're going to short the Russell 2000, just be careful. Okay, VIX futures is a goodie as well. Sitting at 453 and just March spike gives you 565%. Oh, that's not so bad. Now, the last time we saw a big dip in the market, it was October. So we're going to take this just to that October dip, because you remember we got the market got super, super hot in January. Yeah, but we had like a, from July to October, we had a pretty decent run up. Then October, we had a pretty healthy, pretty healthy retrace on the market. This takes you there. That's 60, almost 1600%. Wow. On the UVIX. That's insane. Just to take us to an October dip, which I think we can absolutely see if we have these rate hikes. So we're up on that.  The VIX is the midterm futures. Midterm futures, again, definitely set for your correction, not as big of a spike, but still, I mean, can't, can't complain on 80 to 100%. When the rest of the market is going credit. So that's why I had to bring these up. Very smart trades. Very smart. Not so bad, huh? But remember, good time, not long time. So we just have to- It's all about timing. And with the market at tops, these are all very good trades. I agree. I agree 100%. Another thing we're going to get into is when interest rate hikes go up, you know, who benefits? Insurance companies. Insurance companies benefit very well when there's interest rate hikes, because they're in a lot of bonds and whatnot that don't pay them too well when there's no interest rate hike. So we ought a little bit of that. But then we had some catalysts this week on some smallies that I want to talk about. And then we can have our little AI debate. Okay, Meta. You brought up Meta. It's a, three is my favorite number, so three percent today, but that's a pretty big daily spike. I'm not a fan of Meta, but I can't deny that it's been straight up since that October dip that I mentioned.  I always say you cannot get emotional when you talk about investing. Okay. Take the emotion out of it. Facebook or Meta is a company that is tech company that makes a ton of money in advertising. So I knew they had a lot of money. They have a ton of money in the bank. So when you, just like Apple. So when you have a lot of money in the tougher market, you're going to stand out. Yeah. What they did is they started to take a step back from the Metaverse because that's what took the stock down. And they started focusing more on creating reels and making their platform a platform where influencers can get paid. Now influencers are going to use Facebook because there's two billion users there and they're going to try to get paid as an influencer there similar to the way you can on TikTok or YouTube. So Facebook's made some nice adjustments. And now what the news is for Facebook is they created another new product called threads through Instagram where they're going to be competing directly with the text version of Twitter, which is the real reason why Elon Musk wants to fight Mark Zuckerberg because he realizes that Meta is going after Twitter with their technology. That's one of the reasons why he wants to fight him because he realizes he's going after it. Okay. And you know what? He wants to make a big mistake with Twitter. Cutting people on the browsing is such a big mistake. Yeah. I think they're just creating a protocol threads where you're going to be able to like type messages with this to the same community on Instagram that you already have. So who knows how effective it'll be. But if it's another revenue stream that generates billions of dollars, which probably will be because Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp, all these products underneath Meta are just getting bigger and better because they had to leverage each other and the network very, very well because you have 2 billion users. Big. I just want to be really careful here because we're in a pullback zone. I'm not going to say that we're not going to reach all time high again. No, I'm not telling you to be buying this at this point. What I'm trying to say is this has been one of the single greatest trades of the last year. Well, it has rocketed. It has gone from 80 dollars to 250%. Yeah, it went from $80 to $296, a 250% move in less than a year. Okay. That's an amazing move for a huge company. So it's not every day you make 250% on Meta. So it had to go down so that it became super underappreciated and oversold in an amazing buy opportunity for everyone with smart money except for me because I didn't buy it. I didn't either because I didn't buy it because I was watching it and I knew it was a good buy. I just didn't pull the trigger. Because of the Metaverse play, I wasn't sure how they were going to get out of that. They've got out of it with flying colors and it's been one of the single greatest trades of the last year.  So they look like they're probably going to work on recovering. So I would wait for another drop, another severe dip to buy this. I wouldn't want to buy this at this point. I just think it's been one of the single... Because it hasn't had a pullback of that 250%. So like we're saying 250% profits, if you believe that their next quarter is going to be good, their next earnings July 26. So if they do well, but if they don't, that could be the pullback. So Rivian, they've been doing well. I like Rivian. They just started delivering in Europe. So the fact that they're delivering now and directly competing with Tesla, taking market share from Tesla is guys, and this is only a 20 box. This is a type of trade that could be a life changer. Because can you go to there all time? Oh, yes, I sure can. Look at that. Now, we were trading it back then. I actually never owned Rivian, but I mean, I was frothing all over it because I mean, that's a 10-bagger. Yeah, I never traded it either. But I think if Tesla can do what it's doing, and this can take some of that excitement, we can maybe see $100 stock. That's right. So there could be another 40%, 400% upside from here or maybe even more if they're able to start eating into Tesla's market share. Well, and you know what? We knew eventually, someone was going to is just that Tesla came first. But I mean, we're at 165% profit just to resistance. So I see resistance here at about $41. So you always want to go a little before that just to make sure there's buyers to pick up what you're selling. But that's looking pretty juicy. And knowing that, you know, they're not just an idea now, that means a lot. 100%. Speaking of, I got to bring this baby out. So I brought Blade out just like a couple of months ago. But now we got to talk about it. Did you see that the FAA approved in Dubai the first flying car? Oh, wow. No. Yes, this was just last week. Crazy. The FDA, and it's on the news and you can find it on Google, the FAA approved the first flying car to be tested. So they're flying this super cool thing all over Dubai. Now Blade is planning on expanding their flying car partnership into Europe. Wow. They're at $4. Yeah. I mean, hey, this is why we do these, right, is to find these trades. And guys, I have a notepad and pen and I'm legitimately taking notes. And I would suggest you do the same thing. I think it's so cool when you talk about innovation. Like there literally is a flying car flying around Dubai right now. Yeah, that is super cool. Right. And so as long as no parts fly off it and decapitate anybody, because that's a risk. Yeah, that's the part I didn't understand is how do you approve flying cars because it's a very, the airspace is a very interesting thing because like if there's a bunch of flying cars everywhere and they crash, then they fall on the people. So how does that work? And there's no stop signs and there's no lights up in the sky yet. So how do you like police it all? And how do you, there's no road. Imagine you have to file a flight plan. Like people can fly helicopters, which is like a small plane of sorts. That's right. Like a capsule plane. People can fly helicopters around. I reckon that it would be similar to that. But then I mean drones, like drones have a big drama around airspace. And I remember Elon Musk talking about why doesn't he make a flying plane? And he was like, imagine a muffler falls off. That's what the thing I'm saying is like something falls or there's an accident and then they they're dropping on people or dropping on buildings. I just see it being potentially catastrophic. Potentially. But the hype on this could be potentially awesome. That's why I had to bring it up. But I think it could be super volatile because if someone gets decapitated by a nickel, it's going to be a bit of a problem. Yeah, exactly. Keep that one on stock. Now, we talked about hypercharge going up last week and this baby did. She's been going up. Yep. There's been some green. It's been looking healthy. Nice to see. And this is where I think we're in the time now that all these governments are closing up on their deadline to electrify vehicles because they're talking about cows and cars causing climate change. So either way, this is when I think they're all going to be a winner. I really do. Because when you have a big old hype run and that's like lithium electric vehicles, we just saw what happened with Ruby and these guys all have to charge the cars, wallbox, charge point. What's the other one? Blink. So now just hypercharge. I think they're all setting up for rockets and they've been showing signs of life. Yeah. Electric vehicles and then charging solutions, companies for the electric vehicles. Very, very smart trades right now. Yep. I agree with that.  Oh, well done. So I sold it around here. Last time I got in at 27. This time I got in at 33.5. I think it was. So yes, a little early, but I was just scared to get missed. So in my trading plan, if we come back to that 27, I'll pick it up a little, I'll double down, but I just couldn't miss it. So I could be a little early, but I'm not worried about it. It could be a little early, but it's not going to be a drama. Now, speaking of AI, looks like the dip got bought and picked up. Oh, wow. Yes. So planter, actually we need to zoom in to the four hour, just that you can get like a better low down. And I was freaking going to buy it and I'm so mad at myself. I was thinking of buying it here in this zone, but there was another one that I want to talk about that I had to average down on because I bought too soon, which annoyed me. And so I didn't get back on this one, back on. I never owned it yet. I didn't get on this, but it was looking like it was kind of healthy. I saw these like three green candles and only one red. And I was like, maybe I do, maybe I don't, but I bought AI instead. And I'm up on that just over 10% right now. So stoked about this. But anyways, planters on its way. It came off that time. I did buy AI. So this same little drama that I saw on planter, I bought this baby. I think you need to get out of that trade soon. I'm going to. I actually literally have a sell order at 42, but I might even just sell it at end of the day today. Like AI is a straight hype play, guys. It is a hype bubble. Like these things are volatile AI. They're like good time, not a long time. So when you're buying in sell zones, you got to be ready to sell. No, no, no. I bought in a buy zone. No, but I mean, a sell zone, like it's it's up like coming up to it exactly. So I have set my order for 42, but the truth is, I'm probably going to get out before the end of the market today. Because you're buying 5% and then it struggles. Yeah, you're buying 22 because everyone knows they have no revenues and it's just hype right now. C3 does have some revenues, but no, they're not revenue generating. They're still losing money. They're not revenue, but this is a bubble. So I like trading bubbles at times, but what I'm saying is you have to be careful about where you get in and get out. What happened with that toggle one? Remember I told you it was too high? I just said I had to average down on it because I got like it was freaking rough. And when you bought it, what did I say to you?  So now I'm down like 35% total and I had to average down because I bought it way high. I've been around so long and it's happened to me so many times that I've been around just as long as you, Pfizer. So anyways. So why would you get in so high when you know that it was already up hundreds of percent? It actually wasn't up hundreds of percent anymore. It was actually only up 150%. So regardless of that, I average, yes, yes, but it had been up 400%.  These are the things that happen. However, I've made up for it another. So that I've gotten from bad trade over the years. And that's why I have this thing now where I'm just like super selective. I like to play a little here and there. And I did and you know it. It wasn't even the end of the road because I didn't put too much on it. So I really actually don't care. But regardless of that, I put a pretty substantial amount down on C3 because I liked that dip. So now, Sofi, we got to talk about Sofi. That's one that I own. I sold my Sofi, but I'm actually considering owning some more. So I sold it in profit, mind you, that was no drama. However, what just happened? Supreme Court ruled that there is no forgiveness on student loans. And who's holding the most in student loans with Sofi? Because they have a nice rate. So one thing is that I was reading a few of these and they were saying Sofi stock is already baked in most good news on student lending. I actually don't agree with that. I really don't agree with that. I think what it did was it rocketed up because a lot of us own Sofi kind of high. Like I remember my average being like 13 dollars. And then when it was down in this like four or $5 area, I was like, Oh my God, I'm down so much. It was painful. So I averaged down and averaged down. I got out a nice profit, but I actually want to get back in. So are you in profit right now? No, I got in in 2021 when the market was higher. So I've got a way till 15. Okay. So that would have been me if I didn't average down. These things happen, right? There's other ways to do it. Can I go back there? Absolutely. And I think it will. So when I bought it, I thought I was going to sell it at 30. And when I bought it at 15, I thought I would sell it at 30. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you still will be able to. It's on its way back up. Look at the chart. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, that's the thing is when I bought it in 2021, the market was super hot. Like we're having right now. Yeah. So from learning from those experiences, I'm not going to jump into anything that's already up because I feel like there's going to be a severe drop at some point. And I don't know when it could be next year. It could be the year after. I think between now and December, we're going to see a huge drop. And that's why I think it's important that we set our targets for what we want. So I think a good target to get back into SoFi would be around that 650 level. Can I go down to that $5 again? Sure can. But you have to have that conversation with yourself, right? So I see a nice uptrend, but I think that we're going to have some drama pullback.  So I think that's going to be a good one. Now these guys, we got to go through these were all in your top 10. And these were IPOs. I usually don't like trading IPOs because they scare me, but sometimes they do anyways. Because what's the problem with IPOs is you have a lot of early investors who got in on the cheat and they wait to sell off to people getting in later. But sometimes they prove you wrong. So this guy doesn't seem to have a pullback. This was one of them, Carvana. Yep. That's an interesting one. Yeah, that's one of the IPOs that came out and has done really well so far. And then there was this one, EDR. EDR is the company that is the UFC that was partnered with the WWE. So I just feel like they've got two huge entertainment companies working together and I just feel like it's at a good price. I mean, it seems really cheap for the two businesses that are in it. I think this could be a huge long-term trade. How's the WWE stock doing? It's just called WWE, isn't it? I think they're EDR now. Oh, there it is. It's still there. They're still trading. Yeah, they're still there. But I think it's going to be EDR at some point. It's going to be just the one. But yeah, look, WWE is $108. Yeah. I forgot about this. Holy snap. Did this baby ever rock it this year? Yeah, so that one took off. And then EDR is partnering with WWE. And I'm like, well, at some point, EDR is going to take off. Yes. Okay, cool. Good to know. That's why I like them. Now this one I hadn't heard of. Yeah, this is another IPO. It's another IPO that just came out, FIHL. Insurance. So insurance, like I was saying earlier, this is one sector that does really well during rate hikes because a lot of them are invested in bonds and bonds do well when there's some great hikes. So good call on this one. Decent pullback, but not too, too bad. Earl makes a comment. Hey, Earl, how you doing? Thank you for joining us on our show on the weekend, The Bull and Bear Show. Earl says four banks sitting with $520 billion in underwater US bonds ain't going to help plus banks in liquidity crunches. Yes. Yes. So it is absolutely. Yeah. And that's true. And mortgage rates going up, which Amanda's been saying is going to potentially cause a housing crisis, which hasn't really happened yet, and a commercial real estate crisis, which hasn't happened yet on a full large scale. But we believe at some point, something bad could happen. So be aware of that. Absolutely. So I mean, everything's kind of lining up to be like the drama of the 90s, which I mean, if you didn't know about that stuff, look into it. Okay. I was interested to see that you got a couple of restaurant ones in here because we were talking about fast food restaurants. Yep. Number is the hottest time for fast food restaurant stops because everybody's on vacation. Parents aren't at home cooking for their kids because, you know, usually people work when their kids are at school. So this is a time for these kinds of things to fly. So I'm grateful that you brought these guys up. Kodiak gas services. Yeah. KGS, new IPO, G-E-N-K, new IPO. T-A-S-T is another food stock. And I just feel like food in this type of market environment is a good way to go, a good way to invest because people are looking at things that they really need right now to invest in. I think people are throwing away like the hype as much as like back in the day, like even a couple years ago, people would buy anything if it moved.  They're not going anywhere. So that's what people are buying them. Yes. Like Netflix. It's not going anywhere. I don't think it's a good idea to be buying stuff right now at a 52-week high. Please let's make that clear. No, we're not telling you to buy that. We're just telling you that that's what's going on. So where I'm looking as an investor now is I'm looking at things like, like you said, you talked about travel. Travel is doing well now. Food is something people are always going to need. So I think food companies, restaurant companies, these types of businesses are going to be good opportunities in the market as well. So that's why I brought them. I agree. GitLab. This is a tech stock. Even though they IPO, they're holding a great thing. GitLab is an AI stock. So I put that on the list because it's an AI. Let me add it to my list. And Docs. Docs is an AI stock too. DOCS. Another company that I added to the list that's an AI stock. So that's why they're on my list. Added. AMKOR. What's these guys? AMKOR. All I see, AMCOR technology surges is it may have received. AI as well. That was another AI play. Okay. Three new AI plays on my top 10. AI is a complete bubble but I'm playing in the bubble. Just very carefully here and there.  Value Village. I was actually excited for this one. And when it finds the bottom, I think it could be good because their rapid stream is next level. Yeah. Value Village is great. Oh, there's stock on donation. That's right. They have a great business model. They get everything in donation and they turn around and sell it for profit. That's right. It's an amazing business model. So they're a brick and mortar store. So their only real expense is going to be their store and their staff. And I think a lot of them are volunteer anyways. So I mean, when you have a store and everything is donated, it's good revenue. Oh, yeah. So I'm actually excited for this one to bottom out. I'm just going to tag that. Now, we're just going to get, and I'm going to rapid fire these, but I just wanted to give you examples of stocks that do well when interest rates go up. I've back tested these, and they pretty much all run through. So do your own DD. Retreat and I are not financial advisors. We're just pretty damn good traders. So economically and statistically, I think we need to be setting targets for things like this at the end of the month. And at the end of the month is when power brings out all the bad news. So we have MPC, Marathon Petroleum. I think this is going to be a good one to target in the very near future. And I think we have a dividend on here, don't we? 2.5. It's all right. Hey, any dividend I can get my hands on? I'm excited about. Exactly. United Rentals, I wanted to take off because this is too high for my liking. Phillip 66. Now I'm not being super selective about which guys I think are good. And I don't mean to be like, you know, gender specific by guys. I just mean, Amanda, you know, we have six minutes left. No, why is this hour always go so fast? I just looked at the time I was like, yo, we have six minutes left. We're both known for talking too much for too long. Okay, I will rapid fire. These are the juicy ones, I think for the end of the month, set your damn targets. I'm writing them all down.  Christmas rally, just saying. ALL, Allstate Corporation. Reason I brought up Allstate, they are looking at a really good buy zone. Their insurance, they're heavily invested in bonds and bonds make a lot of money when insurance rates, I mean, when interest rates go up 3.22% dividend. Another one, big insurance company, Amtrust, XNA on the dividend, but the stocks look juicy. Then Travelers. Travelers is a really big insurance company. And do we have a dividend? 2.3%. Stock looks super juicy and they stand to make more money when interest rates go up. Goldman Sachs, the reason I mentioned Goldman Sachs is they are one of the very few banks cyber infidelity that have hedged their butts with Bitcoin. So when everything else gets slaughtered, I think Goldman Sachs has done like a micro strategy move and hedged their business with their Bitcoin. I think it's at a really good level, 3% dividend.  However, his stock historically does really, really well, but interest rates go up. He's kind of ruined the world a little bit, but he's got a great stock. Do that. Hate the guy like money. Cools, when people need to save money, they go to the low cost places. That's where Cools comes in. Cools, ready for this? 0.16% dividends. That's the gem of the day. $24 is pretty decent upside. This baby does really good when people need to save money. Cost goes at an all-time high, but it keeps breaking all-time highs. It always has and probably always will. Dividend is so cheap, it's not even worth mentioning, but everyone goes more to Costco. Home Depot and Lowe's. I had to put Home Depot and Lowe's because real estate crisis is coming. When people, when there is a whole lot of real estate on the market, what do they need to do? They got to compete. In order to compete within the real estate on the market, you need to improve your house. That's where Home Depot comes in. 2.7% dividends and Lowe's. People are going to be selling guys, hang tight. Lowe's pretty high, but it's been going up 1.96% dividend. Again, these guys go hand in hand. Verizon. Verizon has put in more 5G networks than any other communications on the planet seems, and they've been rising beautifully, beautifully just since June. So huge uptrend on Verizon. They're just at 10% this month alone and a lot more to go. Yes.  This is another communications major, SBAC. SBA communications, huge run up in the last month and pretty nice little time high. We have a dividend of only 1.45, but these guys go up and I've checked the last interest rate hikes. They go up substantially and only two, only one more. Oh, I wrapped and fired too quick. We even had some time left. Oh, yeah, that's okay. Intel. I've been holding Intel for so long. So here's what happened. I thought, I think most of the people in our trading club know that I fought hard to get my position in Intel. And as soon as they finally got my position in Intel, this little bugger went down. So I had to play the averaging down game. I am now up on my Intel. But besides that, it doesn't mean matter. It's got a beautiful, beautiful uptrend. So when we talk about a lot of the top, what we call the technology stocks, they play a relay, right? They cycle between each other. And we have a lot of others like IBM and Microsoft that have gone up so high. Even Cisco has had a really good uptrend. Intel is on its way back up as well. So the dividend went lower. But I mean, at one time it was like 5% dividend. So I can see that going back up in the near future. And that's all I had to say. So yeah. Okay. Well, we finished this on time. Thank you so much, Amanda in Mexico. This is stocks and stacks, episode number seven with Amanda in Mexico, your host Rich from Rich TV Live in Vancouver. Thank you for watching, everybody. If you like the videos, please smash the like button, comment down below, share the video everywhere and subscribe. And remember, Rich TV Live and Amanda, we are not licensed advisors.  Amanda, can you actually stop sharing the screen for a second? Yes, yes. I was just showing the power drive on the US. And then we can go large screen again. Okay. But past performance is not always an indication of future results. Just because a stock does well yesterday or last month or last year, it doesn't mean it's going to do well tomorrow. So what our advice is is buy low, sell high, lock in your gains, lock in your profits, put 75 to 85% of your money in large caps, dividend stocks and safety and only be willing to risk 15 to 25% of your portfolio on more risky trades, small caps, penny stocks. Use those small caps and penny stocks and smaller cryptos and meme coins to make money, which means when they go up, sell them. And then take the money and put it into large caps. That's right. And accumulate large caps. And what would accumulate real estate. You can accumulate great companies and stocks. You can accumulate great crypto currencies so that you have money for a rainy day. That's what we like to talk about. That's what we like to teach. I hope you guys are learning. Thank you so much for your time today. If you're not winning, you're probably not watching. We bring the winners and we bring them to you first. We do chart analysis, CO interviews, breaking news, sports, travel, trending topics, you name it, we trade it. Now we do real estate. We're doing real estate with Amanda in Mexico. Amanda, do you have anything you want to talk about with your real estate in Mexico? Well, day every day, I want to talk about real estate in Mexico. I mean, when we talk about North American markets getting, you know, they're not down here. They're pretty hot. So talk to Rich, he'll link you up, got you. You want to buy a property in Mexico? It's like a fraction of what it would cost here in Vancouver and in many places all over the world. So great, beautiful properties available in Mexico. Let me know if you guys are interested. Once again, it's your host to the most, your board of rich from rich TV. And I'm out. Amanda, we'll see you soon. We'll see you next week. Cheers.