All right, cool. All right. Go ahead. We can we can move forward. I got five people attending. Go ahead. Go ahead and steer. Ken. So I'm kind of going on today. It's standard agenda for today. We're going to talk about the Prometheus graduation. Have a couple of community presentations and then talk about the backlog a little bit and have some open Q&A. So on the Prometheus plus Open Metrics graduation, Prometheus has graduated and Open Metrics is being spun out into the sandbox. Any comments or questions about Prometheus and Open Metrics? Outside of finally, awesome. And then we received a request from Fluent D, a poor request, 69 and 145. And I think, I think, because in my opinion we should go ahead and send this out for vote. Yeah, I mean it was a bit of open discussion topic. I know Brian had some comments, but the idea is to open discussion whether we want to move forward on the vote or potentially hold and review it more and potentially also add a security audit requirement for graduation. Chris, I was just curious to add a question. It seems like that review has sort of been open with no specific reservations expressed for since February. I was just wondering if there was any context, why has it been held up for so long with the concrete objections that were raised that are not in the PR? The only concrete thing on our end was just a legal review on the CNCF side, which we've completed. So now it's just up to the TOC what you want to do with it. So I'm just waiting on an answer from you. We should just put a deadline on that and then vote. I mean we can't leave it sitting around for six months without making a vote. Well I think there are also, it may have been the first project to apply for graduation. So we hadn't graduated any so we didn't really have a process or we weren't really confident of how to apply the criteria and things like that. So we chose to focus on Kubernetes first and then Prometheus came up after that. I did take a look in more detail at DevStats and some other information from directly from GitHub and so on and had a thread with Eduardo. Yes thank you. And I don't really have any reservations. There's information from that thread that might be useful to post to the PR comments that explain some of the things like a lot of the activity and fluency has been in the ecosystem rather than in the core, which is useful. They do have two active contributing companies as maintainers on the core project though and that seems to have a reasonable number of contributors for the size of the project. Fluent Bit, which is the smaller newer project, doesn't have as much contributor diversity but some projects in Kubernetes don't all have equal numbers of contributors either. So I wasn't that concerned about that. They also, Eduardo felt that the number of contributors was in good shape is sustainable. So I didn't really have any red flags. Obviously it's being used in production by quite a large number of people for a long time. So I think it meets the other graduation criteria. Yeah I know I had some evaluation of it. We did here just to kind of see if it was a solid and it was solid on a lot of testing. So I haven't a issue with it either. Yeah so I didn't see any red flags like PRs pending forever or things like that. In that sense it seems in much better shape than Kubernetes. Are they asking for a security review or not a review of it? Just wanting to add it as a general requirement. That's an orthogonal requirement. Okay. Yeah I don't know that we need to block on that for fluency. Yeah I agree. Okay. Yeah I mean in particular I think they were seeking to do this relatively quickly to align with an event. Is that correct? Yeah and given that they've been waiting for us for six months seems like we should do that. Yeah so we have much better like dev stats. It has much more information and things like that. So from my perspective it looks good to go. Okay. No one opposes. I'm happy to put forward the vote later today. If you want to send out something on the TOC let's just to make sure there's no major opposition Chris. Okay yeah let's let's do that since there's some TOC members not on the call. So I will do that. So good point. Thanks. And then if we took it to talk about the auditing piece separate I think I'm in favor of adding that as a requirement for graduation going forward. Chris I don't know like I don't want to force it on. I don't know if we want to make it a requirement. I don't know if we want to force it on projects that have already graduated. Right but I think it's a good it's a good it's a good capability to have available for companies to request or maybe we make it like I I suggested you know we like to we'd like to offer you this capability if you like you said the CNCF pays for so it's a nice benefit for the community. I think I think if we if we are going to make it a graduation criteria I think we do need to strongly encourage the existing projects to go through one otherwise it looks like we've got some kind of excuse. Yeah I'm happy to have Kubernetes go through it. Cordy and S went through it which is technically I guess part of Kubernetes now so it's up to the community really to make this request. We've piloted it with a few projects in CNCF and it's been actually super successful in my opinion so happy to do it. The only request I made in the PR was just that we be very clear about what we actually want them to do. We don't leave it loose as to any anything can be done otherwise it becomes a checkbox item. Yep. Let's have a little bit more discussion on that and then hopefully we could close out that requirement by the next TOC meeting but it looks like there's generally broad broad support as we as long as we clarify the details a little bit more on it. Yeah I think that's so like a general there have been some emails we've had back and forth the last couple days to it I've been reading and I think you know Brian Grant brought up that we seem to sort of I think review those requirements that we have for graduation sort of make them a little bit more clear. Yeah we don't have any opportunities to update that list but we might as well take a second look at it after we graduated a couple projects. And I think the same goes for sandbox which I don't know if it made onto the agenda but yeah all right I'll make that as a to-do item so I think that's good for now since we have a few community presentations we should probably move forward. Thanks. The next slide is just the some of the upcoming project reviews so I we're still seeking some sponsors from the TOC for Cortex and we already have yeah TIQV is good to go so we'll be announcing that next week. And we we're going to discuss I think offline the some of the other presentations on here in the backlog presentations as backlog items so. Or online. Yeah I just I just sent email about that yeah I would like to have a discussion about what we're looking for in some of these categories since similar or projects in similar categories have come up in the past or we expect to come up more frequently in the future. So just so that we're prepared a little bit with what to ask some of these projects so we can be a little bit more deliberate about which kinds of projects we take in as opposed to just sort of being reactive to the ones that express interest. Yeah I completely agree and so with that we move over to the community presentations I know if I'm Terrace or Joe Terence or Joe on Steve. I'm on this Terence. You Terence. Stephen on I should be on. Yeah I'm here too. Cool. All right. Yeah so Stephen earlier. Cool. Should I just start then. Yep go ahead. Yeah so. I hope you've seen the screen we have slides up. Yeah I can see him. Awesome thanks. Hi so yeah I'm Terence. I work for Heroku a Salesforce.com company. I'm one of the co-creator Bill Pax with me is Joe. Well it works at Heroku he's an architect. On my team and then is the Java experience owner at Heroku. We also have Stephen who is the Pivotal Proc is a Pivotal Proc manager and Cloud Foundry Bill Pax project lead and then we also have Ben who works at Pivotal and leads the Cloud Foundry Java experience. So for those of you who aren't familiar with Bill Pax Bill Pax turn your source code or app artifacts into a running application on the cloud. And really want to meet developers where they're at today, which is it at the source code. And it's been around for over seven years. So it's an old project. At Heroku we use it to basically turn our Ruby specific pass into a Polarglot specific pass. So this enabled us to support other programming languages on the platform and Since then there's been a number of other players in space, Cloud Foundry being one of them that had really kind of an endorse and adopted Bill Pax And more recently K-native added support for it as way to handle source the container building or one of the ways that you can go ahead and do that. Next slide. And we have customers across both startups and enterprises and the reason startups really love using Bill Pax is that it enables them to get this really quick time to production, have these fast rapid iterations and push out features and bug fixes. And on the other end of the spectrum with enterprises, it allows them to have this security and compliance story. And The way this is achieved is by separating the application concerns from the rest of the infrastructure operation concerns. And so this allows application developers to focus on actually building the application and kind of the application operating people to focus on actually operating and managing Running that application. Next slide. Another reason people choose Bill Pax is that there's a community behind it. So between both Cloud Foundry and Heroku, we have 13 people that are paid full time to work on Bill Pax, maintain them, support them, ensure when you choose these Bill Pax that they're well supported and up to date. But if you can't find something that we support, there's actually an entire community of Bill Pax. Next slide. So here's a list of the Bill Pax that both Cloud Foundry and Heroku officially supports. And most of this stuff is centered around languages. But since we've kind of open sourced it and introduced it into the community, the community has really showed us the versatility of Bill Pax. So, beyond just adding new languages, which they've done that we don't necessarily support, they've added support for various tools as well as off the shelf products that you can kind of just install without having to deal with the integration work. It takes the stuff up and running. And these are examples of Bill Pax that are being implemented. And so if you need to go off and build your own, it's not too complicated. But what we're proposing here isn't the actual Bill Pax itself that we want to contribute, but the API infrastructure that actually power the Bill Pax. Next slide. And so kind of stepping away from the high level and kind of digging more into the Bill Pax themselves. Simply, when you take your app source code, which is where the developers start with and then you run them through a Bill Pax or set of Bill Pax, at the end of it, you get this tar ball, which is a runable artifact. On a Cloud Foundry, they call it a droplet and at Heroku we call it a slug. And what you get with this tar ball is this ABI compatibility guarantee with the underlying libraries in the operating system. And so this allows application operators to provide underlying OS image updates without the need for the application developers to have to really do anything or rebuild their application at all. And so if you need to patch a CBA, the app operators can do that in production across all the applications. And this is what Heroku and Cloud Foundry have been doing over the last seven years without incident. And if you compare this to when doing Docker files, the whole image has to be built for every single app across your entire fleet of applications. And so again, this allows app developers to focus on building the application and the app operators to focus on actually operating their application and And so allows people to quickly get stuff up and running and maintaining these outpatients in the cloud. And now I'm going to hand it off to Steven to talk about kind of the shortcomings that we see in Bill Pax today and kind of where we want to take them. Hey, so thanks Terence. So I'm going to talk about some of the drawbacks we have with Bill Pax right now. So each platform has sort of a custom build pack interface. So Heroku build packs often don't work on CF and CF build packs often don't work on Heroku. It's possible to get that to work, but it's a lot more effort. The contract between the platform and a build pack is very basic. So it leads to a lot of uncertainty about how build packs behave. People think they feel like black boxes, advanced devs, they say, this is maybe not enough control for me. The simple contract can also make authoring and extending build packs not the easiest thing because they all work very differently. You may be working on something very complex or very simple. It's not an easy thing to make a build pack really quickly and get it out there. Build packs often involve a lot of unnecessary rebuilds and data transfer. So if you have a thousand Java apps, you may end up storing a thousand JVMs on your platform just because of the way the model works. You may end up transferring those JVMs back and forth a whole lot. There's not very much data duplication like I mentioned. It's also difficult to provide additional OS packages. Everything, they're sort of unprivileged and the model works differently to prevent that right now. Next slide, please. So in January, the build pack leads from Heroku and Pivotal. We sort of got together in New York and found that we had really similar problems and that we had really sort of similar future goals. And so we sat in the room for two days and came out with out of that we got this idea of cloud native build packs, which are sort of this idea that build packs should be universal and use container standards and run anywhere and take advantage of more modern and more uniform across platforms technologies. So the idea of cloud native build packs is that they transform source code into images and just OCI images or Docker v2 images that behave sort of similar to how they do today but work on those container standards and are a little more compatible with each other and with different platforms. So we use a new technique that's sort of pioneered at Google right now. It's not conico, but it lets us manipulate images inside of a Docker v2 registry sort of a new feature of the Docker v2 image format, where we can just swap out individual images to update them without having to re upload, you know, previous images or images that don't need to change. So this can lets us really easily take advantage of, you know, API compatibility of OS libs or other kinds of compatibility guarantees provided by different languages also really minimizes build time and data transfer compared to the previous model. We're targeting Kubernetes for this effort, but this should be compatible with any image based platform. We really want this to work well with helm and run on any OCI container runtime. The whole thing runs unprivileged and just a series of images that doesn't require conico or IMG or build or anything like that. And there are no nested container hacks or anything like that needed. Next slide please. So I have some questions about that. Sure. So the container image will be the generated artifact as opposed to this lug tarball. That's right. It's like the build process itself runs inside of container. Yeah, that's right. What is the interface to specifying how to build the container? Is it a script or some new declarative format? Do you mean like what creates the other container inside of the container? How is the build process specified? So I'll sort of go into the details in a little bit. There's a detection process that selects a series of build packs and those build packs determine how to build the application. Okay, I'll wait for that. Cool. Happy to talk more after if you have more questions too. So our goals for this effort are to alleviate enterprise app dependency management pains. There's one goal that we, you know, if you're a large enterprise patching, you know, critical vulnerability for hundreds and hundreds of applications can take a really long time and rely on a lot of green pipelines. With this you can update lots and lots of images simultaneously in ways that are safe. So if you have open SSL CVE, critical CVE, you can patch that really quickly compared to, you know, hoping that your thousands of apps eventually get updated. We want to make all app developers lives easier, not just enterprise. We don't think you should have to, you know, a lot of app developers don't want to worry about the patch version of Node or the patch version of Ruby they're running and we think we can, you know, make a system that manages that for you. We want to unify the BuildPack ecosystems between Pivotal and Heroku and the community so that all BuildPacks run everywhere and, you know, encourage more contribution to BuildPacks and creation of BuildPacks. We want to sort of narrowly cover application build. We don't want to have a lot of opinions about how you deploy your, you know, images. There are great tools for that like Helm, you know, and we're not saying that we want to replace Dockerfiles. This is just an alternative to Dockerfiles to meet, you know, certain use cases. Next slide, please. So now I'm going to talk a little bit about how they work. So I'll kind of go over this quickly. The first thing that happens is detection. They're four steps. So the first thing that happens is detection where a series of candidate groups are, you know, process the app source code. And the first candidate group that says, yes, this works. It gets to run. So in this example, this is an APM BuildPack, NodeBuildPack and RubyBuildPack. So say you have a Rails app that has Node.js on the front end and needs New Relic to, you know, do performance monitoring. These BuildPacks would, you know, say, yes, this application. I'm compatible with this application. And if they all agree on that, if the group is selected, they work to come up with a build plan that has the dependencies they're going to provide, and they work together sort of to come up with a list of dependencies and dependency versions that they'll install during the build process. The next step is analysis. So during this build process, the BuildPacks are going to generate layers. I'll show you that in a second. And in this analysis step, they're actually retrieving metadata from the previous layers on the registry from the image so that the BuildPacks can decide whether or not they want to replace the layer because it needs an update or they don't want to replace the layer because it's just fine and there's no need to touch it. And so layers only go in one direction, out towards the edge, not never come back. Next slide, please. So during the build process, the BuildPacks all take, individually take the build plan and metadata that you saw in the previous step. They run in order and they decide whether or not they're going to replace layers. So if they want to replace a layer, they just create a directory with the layer, with the contents. If they don't want to, they just don't create that directory. They can update the metadata about the layers and a series of Tommel files that the metadata is stored in. They also have a local cache they can use to speed things up even further. And the cache can also be used to supply dependencies to other BuildPacks. There's a particular contract for that. So in the end, you end up with a whole bunch of directories that replace the remote layers that need to be replaced. And the platform, sort of part of the API, the API lifecycle, replaces those layers remotely in the remote image. This uses the image layer rebasing strategy with Docker v2 image format in order to just replace the layers from the previous build that need to be replaced, sort of getting absolutely minimal data transfer and duplication when, so you don't have a whole bunch of the same copies of Node.js. Next slide, please. So when a critical CVE hits or any kind of CVE hits in a layer that can safely be swapped out without changing application behavior, like an open SSL, for instance, and the operating system layer, we can rebase lots and lots of apps simultaneously against that new or lots of lots and lots of images simultaneously against that new base layer to update all of your apps very quickly without any rebuilding. And that's a big advantage of this. This is similar to what Cloud Foundry and Heroku do today in their platforms. But sort of like you take that model and shift it onto a Docker registry. That's kind of what it looks like. The next slide, please. So we have a bunch of planned contributions here. A lot of these already are finished or near finished. So we currently have a working document for an API v3 specification for build packs that's stable, but it hasn't been completely formally specified yet. We have a reference implementation of this that's finished already called the build pack lifecycle v3. It's just a series of images that don't require privileges. As I mentioned, you can plug them into any platform if you're willing to coordinate them yourself, but we'd like to have some tools to do that for you too. So we are working on a pack CLI that has just an early alpha out. You can barely do anything with it, but it does work with one sample v3 build pack at this point that coordinates these images. The pack CLI does this locally on a Docker daemon for now. But we're also going to work on a controller. This hasn't been started yet. A controller for build pack cloud builds on Kubernetes. That's the next step. We want a controller that'll automatically coordinate this for you on your Kubernetes cluster and potentially update images to or update deployments to sorry. We also plan to provide cloud builder images, not just for sample v3 build packs but for the current we we call the Heroku build packs v2a and the cloud boundary build packs v2b in their specification. We plan to make cloud builder images for them as they are today so that you can start using these quickly without us needing to port them to v3 which will happen, you know, over some amount of time we plan to do that soon but we want, we wanted to make this compatibility layer there so you could use them right now until we finish that process. And you can use those today right now too if you want to. The cloud boundary ones work in Knative. They're already in that project. We also, Heroku has an open beta of a new curated registry for community created build packs that they want to contribute to this effort. Also, it's really exciting. We'd like one central source of build packs that we can. Hi, this is Dan Khan. Just quick question on that that I'm unclear about the existing Heroku build packs that are in production today so like the Ruby or the node ones that are used by thousands or tens of thousands of folks. Are those getting contributed into this project, or are you suggesting a model on how they can be built but they would still live outside of this project. It's the latter so that we're not contributing. Currently, we're not contributing the cloud foundry Heroku build packs.  You know, we may, we may have build packs in this project later. It's just not an initial goal. The things that I'm talking about with cloud builder images are just, we made a compatibility layer to run CF or Heroku build packs and images in an unprivileged way on these platforms that doesn't quite use the v3 API yet but we'll let you use those build packs right now outside of Heroku or outside of cloud boundary. So it's it's the compatibility layer that's that's the contribution. So thank you. Next slide please. So we have two sort of key needs. If we were to join the CNCF one is we need a neutral third party to foster collaboration. We don't want this to be a pivotal thing or Heroku thing or cloud foundry thing. We want this to be a open project that anybody can contribute to fairly, you know, we want build packs run everywhere, not just on particular platforms. And we adequate vendor neutral infrastructure, you know, if we're going to host a registry build packs for CI CD and all that stuff. I want to be able to ship build packs quickly to people with new dependencies. Next slide please. And finally, the we think there are a lot of benefits of CNCF inclusion for us and for the CNCF hopefully we we think a uniform build pack interface specification as part of a CNCF project would allow the CF and Heroku build packs to run any platform greatly improve compatibility and interoperability of build packs. Then community build packs also this would facilitate the adoption of container standards because there are a lot of users using build packs right now and build packs don't use all the container standards that you know currently the we like to see and so by, you know, making those users use this new build pack specification that uses those standards will pull more people into this ecosystem. And the association with Kubernetes and other CNCF projects we also think will encourage wider contribution and hopefully dispel myths that build packs are very platform specific and then you know you have to make your heroku app or a cloud foundry app, you know, you make a build pack app that doesn't doesn't have much has very opinionated configuration doesn't have much configuration all. And finally, we are looking for to see sponsors for the CNCF sandbox. So, sponsor us. And that's about it. That's it. Yeah, thanks even thanks for the overview. Are there any additional questions. So when an image is has some layers updated does that affect all pullers of the image at the same tag or digest. So the it actually creates a new image shot. So you can choose whether or not you want to upload it with a different tag or you can, we want to replace the tag and point the tag of the new shot. That means if you use a shot based deployment though you do have to update your deployment, or if you're using tags to make sure the image gets to the edge somehow right so different strategies for that. That could be nice. Okay, thanks. Do we have any TOS team that was interested in sponsoring? I am. Anyone else? I think I might be I'd like for somebody on my team to look into this a bit more. It's, it's interesting. I can't tell how much of this is similar to work we've had to do to get, you know, sort of rootless containers working. And how much of it is completely different. So And we really rely on this kind of Composability of the different components comprising an image inside of Google and inside of App Engine. So I think it's potentially really valuable. So I'll put it's put Brian and Camilla and you can definitely have people. I'll kick off a thread on the mailing list to for more community input. So thanks. Awesome. Right, we'll move on to the next presentation then. Which is a Georgia and Rook and storage. Awesome. Thanks. And moving to incubation. It looks like that's still reading correctly. Yes. And can you hear me well right now? Yeah, we have loud and clear. Thank you. Oh yeah. So my name is Jared Watts and I'm a maintainer for the Rook project. So let's go ahead and start with a quick introduction on Rook. It is already a CNCF hosted project. So there may be, you know, a bill, a bit of knowledge in the community about it already, but we'll do a quick introduction. So Rook can be thought of as a cloud native storage orchestrator. And what I mean by that is that Rook provides a platform and support for a broad set of storage solutions to be integrated into cloud native environments. And the way it accomplishes that is with a lot of automation, basically, so a lot of administrative operator tasks of, you know, deployment and configuration and management of a storage solution over time is handled by a set of operators in the Rook project. So we started when we were accepted into the sandbox stage. Rook was exclusively focused on providing this orchestration capability for Seth. And since then, Rook is now a computer thought of as a framework for providing those services and support for many different storage providers and solutions. And so Rook was accepted back in January as the first storage project to be hosted by the CNCF and our TOC sponsor has been H. So next slide please. So we're going to be talking mostly today about the growth and the progress of Rook over the last seven months since we were initially accepted into the sandbox stage. So since then, we have, we're looking at, you know, a lot of the numerical metrics and data growth in the last seven months. So what we see here is a lot of these metrics have have doubled or tripled in the last seven months, like the GitHub stars, the contributor number of contributors to the project, you know, Twitter and Slack members and followers. There's also been some 10x growth, which I find very interesting in the number of container downloads in the last seven months, which speaks to, you know, the community growing and the popularity of the project project growing. Another thing to note here in the growth of the project over the last seven months is that we have added another maintainer to the to the project to bring us up to four maintainers from three organizations now. Next slide please. So we can talk about some of the specific accomplishments now since Rook was accepted. So since then we have done two releases the zero dot seven release in February, and the zero dot eight release in July about a month ago, which represent a total of 545 commits between the two of them. Another thing that we have done in the last seven months is we have gone ahead and implemented a formalized governance project governance policy. And you know that covers things like adding and removing maintainers from the project what the specific responsibilities of the maintainers are conflict resolution and voting process you know all the typical things you would find in a governance policy. And then we after that policy was implemented we went ahead and followed it to add our fourth maintainer to the project. As we talked about earlier we had originally focused exclusively on Seth, and now we have a framework for other storage providers as well so that kind of makes you can start thinking about Rook now as a general general purpose cloud native storage orchestrator and you know some of the benefits or the aspects of that framework are kind of normalizing the way that storage resources for a distributed storage system would be declared. Some of these patterns around operators, you know, auto software automation to deploy and manage distributed storage systems the plumbing for those operators to talk to the Kubernetes API. A bunch of common specs, policies, logic that can be shared amongst the various storage providers, and then also integrated, like integration testing framework and environment that these storage providers can all reuse. So we with that framework we have added in the zero to eight release support for both cockroach DB in many and NFS Cassandra and Accenta and Alexia are all coming along NFS is just about to be merged into master. And that was taken on by a student this summer for the their Google Google summer of code project. So we're happy to have a contributor from that program as well. Yes, that's great because that was definitely a subject of discussion earlier in the year and early last year we talked about work for the first time. Are people actually deploying on other storage back ends I assume that most of your production and appointments are still on set but are you seeing an interest in in production deployments and some of these other back ends. Yes, we have seen interest in Congress to be in many and then some of the other platforms as well they're both, you know, very early alpha stage support so they're not have nearly the maturity that stuff does that the community built around that stuff does so, you know, the majority of our downloads are definitely safe right now, but we are seeing some traction growing from some of the other platforms and something I find interesting as well is that a lot of these the support that's for more providers that's coming along that's all been community driven. You know, we have folks that demand from the community that they're bringing that demand to the project we're discussing it in you know as a group in the community and new contributors are coming to the project to add support for other providers. So is there a consensus that that's the right call for the project in terms of getting beyond just stuff or sometimes it can feel like you're generating kind of false genericism and that you're creating a bunch of pain when actually people are only using one back end or is the consensus more that this is a direction that people want to go and it's worth the genericism. I mean if that's a question along along those lines how generic is it how much of the API and implementation or shared between the different back ends. I'm browsing through the code and it looks like there are at least some specific apis that each different back end. Yeah, that's a great question. So I would say that the, you know, the generic, you know, kind of general abstractions across all these providers is it is still early in its implementation and that's we're iterating over that and that is growing. There is absolutely platform specific logic that goes into the specific deployment and management of the various storage providers you know there's there's plenty of stuff specific logic that you know you would do to you know bootstrap and manage over time a stuff cluster that does not necessarily have the ability to other storage providers. So there I believe that there is a lot of value in this, you know, general generic approach that we're taking here to kind of abstract the commonalities out, but it is, it is growing and I hope to see more of that over time. Well what is shared amongst the different back ends right now. So amongst the different back ends there are a lot of ways to kind of specify how a deployment should be run and managed, you know, how to select and provision, you know, the raw storage resources, how to specify placement or, you know, resource consumption, or how to set up networking. So a lot of it's more deployment time focused I would say and less of it is ongoing management time. But are there clear layers in Rook separating the different concerns like the infrastructure concerns from other management oriented concerns. I would say that there is a there is a separation there with the, you know, infrastructure sort of bootstrapping or initial provisioning of resources, you know is definitely a different layer than that later run time to operations. And then that kind of leads into where the other layers or higher layers of provider specific implementations as well, which are the more of the ongoing management tasks. So there is there is definitely some some clear separation of layers between is it stacked that way. Okay, thank you. Thank you. So then, back to the progress or accomplishments and sandbox entry. So the step support that we have has been graduated to beta from alpha. And you know what that means is for us is that the community has put a fair amount of miles into the step implementation and the reliability of it has increased a lot. So going forward, the API for you know specifying and managing a sep cluster will remain stable, and any updates to it will be done in a way that honors backwards compatibility. The, I guess we can speed up a little bit. So some of the another important feature for sep cluster specifically is the sep operator has the capability of doing horizontal scaling so it can grow and shrink a sep cluster with, you know, obviously less loss, but also minimal impact to the clusters performance as well. And then we revamped some of the security model in Rook so that the operators. This is sorry that the pods that run or deployed and set up by the operators can be run unprivileged, and the separation of permissions to allow administrators that are running running Rook and running some of these storage fighters have more control over specific permissions and operations that the operators will be performing, and then also being able to incorporate you know pod security policies and things and other environments like and like support for open shift. Next slide. So let's go ahead and start talking about with the adoption that we're seeing for Rook. So this first slide here is about some of the bigger names that are in the process of evaluating Rook and they have deployments in their environments. Right now are they're running internal workloads. You know they're relying on them and you're internally for some of their business needs but they are not yet running customer facing services on their deployments. One thing we have seen is you know storage systems in general can tend to have longer evaluation periods and they're usually put through a bit more rigorous validation. When they're being evaluated to take them to production so we're seeing folks get some good mileage on them and you know really kind of vetting them for a good long period to get their confidence up. So something that I'd like to share too is that there is an upcoming CNCF survey that was taking it KubeCon that's going to be released I think next week. And amongst the some of the questions there about adoption of various cloud native storage solutions. Rook had the highest rates amongst all those projects that were in the selections there and it also independently confirmed for us that there is production usage out there. I think that was in between 10 and 15% of deployments are now seeing production usage. So let's go ahead into the next slide. These are some of the specific use cases that we have of people that we've you know as part of our community that we've reached out to or have reached out to us. And we'll go into some of the details of these specific companies deployments and their use cases. But you know these are some of the ones that we some of the more users or adopters of Rook that we've had a lot of experience with and we're interested in what their deployments are. There's you know a note at the bottom there about there are also additional adopters of Rook, especially those that have on-premise deployments that are running their running the solution on site, and that are not ready or willing to share some of those details public area now. But there are more adopters there so let's go ahead to the next slide and start getting into a couple of the details of some of these specific adopters. So SAP Concur is I believe that's the biggest deployment that we're aware of of Rook right now both in terms of the node counts and the end users being serviced by it. So this you know they're evaluating Rook right now across 300 nodes in their environments and it's about 10,000 or so users are being serviced by you know with Rook providing the underlying storage for about 400 apps in their environment. So this kind of speaks to a couple of their experiences here have kind of speaks to the ease of use and the reliability that people are experiencing with Rook where a lot of these administrative tasks or operational tasks for storage systems are automated and you know kind of more they're able to take a more hands-off approach with running a fair amount of scaled out storage. I also like that from Tiz one of the senior systems engineers over there at SAP Concur that he really that speaks to the healthy community that we've kind of built in Rook that you know we have a lot of folks who are you know starting to help each other in the community it's a healthy growth of a community where people are you know solving each other's problems and you know really helping each other out. So let's go move ahead a little bit quickly here now because I think I'm running out of time. Well is Concur the only user you're aware of running at the order of hundreds of nodes. I think yes in the hundreds Brian I believe that is the only user I am specifically aware of yes. But there are none in the thousands. No I did not believe there any in the thousands. Okay thank you. Yes let's get to quickly through this so some of the other users here. The Pacific Research Platform is funded by the National Science Foundation and it is a large platform that's being built for researchers amongst a lot of the University of California schools and other universities around the country to collaborate with large projects and machine learning and simulations, you know, image processing all sorts of stuff there. Let's go ahead to the next slide. Another one of our adopters is the Center of Excellence of Next Generation Networks. It's in Canada it's a consortium of member organizations like big telco and device companies like Bell Canada and Rogers Cisco Nokia that are working to create an ecosystem to grow the Canadian IT sector. They, you know, have like a one of a mix of, you know, both, you know, storage focused nodes and compute focused nodes, and the ability to select and, you know, isolate or use the storage resources while being able to also take advantage of running workloads on the heavy of the compute focused nodes that, you know, can access the storage from, you know, the storage heavy nodes kind of a hybrid mix there of hyperconverged environment to be able to take advantage of both storage and compute. Let's go to the next slide. So these the folks at the Hamburg Germany University of Applied Sciences also have a one of our larger deployments that services thousands of users at the university there to run really large scale simulations that produce lots and lots of data that needs to be persistently stored and managed and accessed over time. You know, what I like about these, their experience here is that they're, they've kind of taken that idea of storage resources being treated more as cattle, instead of pets, where you know they're the administrators are focused less on the nodes level and focus more on the cluster as a whole because a lot of that automation is being taken care of by rock at the node level in the last slide. And the genie is another German company that is using object storage from look and then set as their backing storage for their end user services. So they have the world's most advanced digital everyday assistance, where you know there's documents invoices forms all sorts of things that more than 10 million of user uploads of those type of files getting uploaded to their system and storage stored on this persistent storage here. You know, it's, it's the, the smarts are intelligence, you know, that the operators provide kind of give, you know, the ability to manage their data at easy, you know, audience with all that automation and very easy manner but they also have the ability to dig into some of the finer configuration options to, you know, in more advanced scenarios as needed to so that flexibility of what the operators can provide is helping the genie guys a lot. I think that was the last slide so we can have time for any questions or move along to the next agenda item if we need to since we're running out of time but thank you for letting me talk about rock today I appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks, Jared. So I don't know do we have anything we asked most of our questions we went to any other last minute questions you want to bring up before we move on to the last presentation. I'll send a note out so we could continue to discussion on the mailing list regarding whether we want to vote or not. Okay, just in the interest of time. Okay, that's great. All right, do we have JJ on or Dan for safe. Yeah, I'm here. JJ. Thanks for the time. So, security, security has been a cross getting concern across multiple infrastructure I think we brought this up before. And we started pulling pulling together like a bunch of people who are aware of security and then we started this working group about a year back I think, or maybe less. So, people that came together, they understood that this is a cross getting concern, and then we have various folks from different organizations, big and small Google to like startup. And in addition to all these organizations, I think we've also tried to bring in external perspective from NISD and NISD has been dangling with this problem for quite a while. Now, whether it's a big data team or their security team. So, all these have led to us understanding that there is a product thing here in security to understand and disseminate knowledge and I mean obviously we got this way for advanced and many other infrastructure. That's part of CNCF. So one of the goals here is to enable cross pollination between what's learned from other infrastructure to the other infrastructures that are going through the same problems. And we have been running this for a while. So there's a lot of information on GitHub. The link is link is dropped there. And thanks again for signing up for the sponsorship for this. I'd be happy to answer any questions. And just before we move on to the questions just so everyone knows in the reference architecture discussions we're having. We have spread out security now as its own category which I know we need to probably review the categories with the TOC at some point soon just to kind of get some feedback on them. But so security is sort of its own area. I think my own area because of all the obvious, you know, implications about security in the industry. So just with that kind of let you guys know what our thought process is on why is an interesting work to create. But that will open it up to any questions. Brian Grant, I'm assuming you're familiar with some of the work that Google work groups are doing. Safe for doing this with this work group, right. Well, I'm actually not super familiar with safe. I haven't had time to keep track of it. Within Kubernetes there are a number of efforts and I'm not. There are there is some overlap of people. So I assume people are talking but I've had working together closely. Yeah, actually just had a great conversation with Tim from SIGAOF about the opportunity to have a subgroup combined of members from each group who like sort of brainstorm some of the open questions around. There's some identity concern, you know, like how do we articulate how identity and authentication works because that has to ideally work across broader than the Kubernetes ecosystem and if we can get the stuff to be interoperable, it would be ideal. So that's this really just beginnings of conversation so far we've just had people attend the different meetings just to kind of informally cross pollinate and then we we just we want to to formalize this out a little bit so that we could have projects where we work on them together. Other than identity and authentication and various flavors of policies, what else is within scope for safe? So at least to one. Yeah, so one thing to also reinforce is the Kubernetes policy working group had a proposal to create a working group here at the CNCS level as well. And we've joined forces with that group to form one. So, you know, policy, you know, policy controls are in scope through that merger. To address to address Brian Grant's question a little further. It's not full. It's not completed, but I think in terms of layering of security problem itself, there is there is identity, there's authentication, there's authorization, there's policies, which cuts across like authorization to some extent then access control as a separate part auditing auditing is another piece. Compliance is a big beast by itself so there is like various aspects of security and some of it is touched in some parts of infrastructure dips but even to the extent of understanding that these are layered problems versus these summer overlapping problems is less clear in many people and then there's like endless discussions around various models and various, various overlaps that exist in this right so the objective is to like at least have a common understanding and not talk about talk about the same thing like a number of different context and a number of different architect infrastructures. Yeah, the main thing is that there isn't clarity around what it takes to have a secure architecture and what that even means. And we're seeking clarity around that because newcomers to cloud native who have our deep security experts. It's not, it's not clear to them how they're supposed to secure their system and they're and you know we've had a lot of conversations about our back versus a back and they're, they're complimentary concepts but really clarifying when and how and why one would secure a system in different ways. And, and I think that we're exploring we're focusing on the big problems first rather that and there's like these fuzzy edges, you know we've had conversations this is include physical security, probably not before, if you have to, if in order to move to a cloud native, you know, part of your infrastructure that has to connect with systems that ensure physical security on prem. Well, maybe we have to kind of touch those systems in some ways. So it's really about like how do you secure. How do you reason about whether your cloud native deployment is secure. And you know how do you keep your end users safe in that right so that we were explicitly touching on, well, how do applications become secure how do they do. You know how do they ensure that their end users have the right security controls and the developers have the tools they need so where does that make sense in terms of scope Brian. Yes, thank you. I was reading through the use case oriented description as you were talking to. Yeah. I just want to be sensitive of everyone's time. Since since since this has the TOC sponsor already I'm going to just move the discussion to the mailing list and get a little bit more feedback before seeing if we call for a formal vote to accept this okay. Other than that, we need to wrap things up since we're a little two minutes over so I appreciate everyone taking the time to present today and check the mailing list for for follow up. So thanks again, Ken for for taking the place place of Alexis today. Thanks. Thanks guys. Take care. Thanks everybody. Thanks all.


Act 1 of detective stories starring Kirk Douglas, as Jim MacLeod, and Eleanor Parker as Mary MacLeod. The New York Side Street is the 21st precinct police station, and up a shabby flight of stairs is a detective squad room with its desks, its piles, and its busy telephones. So far it's been a normal routine day. My first precinct detective MacLeod talking. Oh yeah Mr. Pritchard, I just brought this boy, Kendra did, come over and identify him. Detective Brody, what can I do for you, Mr.? My name is Sims, and to get Sims, I'm an attorney. Your office has a warrant for Mr. Kurt Schneider. Oh that's my partner school. Hey Jim, Kurt Schneider. What about Schneider, counselor? Where is he? He's ready to surrender himself. Oh fine, bring him in. First I have some photographs of Mr. Schneider, they were just taken. You'll notice he has no scars or lacerations. This is the way I'm bringing my client in, this is the way I want him back. I've heard a good deal about you MacLeod, a law unto yourself, so I'm warning you. I had the pleasure of arresting your client a year ago. I understand. He's changed his lawyer since, if not his business. Kurt Schneider is a successful truck farmer from New Jersey. With an illegal medical practice in New York as a side. Oh you'll excuse me a moment Mr. Sims, that young man in my desk, he's a prisoner, I won't be long. Jim, call your wife. Oh when do you phone? Five o'clock.  Wow, what's wrong? That story you printed, that Langdon yarn, didn't I spell your name right? That's all you got right, you're degenerating into a real sob sister Yussel. God MacLeod, a fox with rabies bit him on the ankle when he was two years old and neither of them recovered. Okay MacLeod, what about this kid? This story worth a picture? Later Joe, later. Hey, how's the kindred? Where are you going? Nowhere. That's right, just stay where you are, see? Don't try running for you just about reached the hall and suddenly you put on wings. Bullets are supersonic. Don't worry. I won't, either way. Hello? Oh hello darling. What did the doctor say? Yeah? Good, good. What tensions? What, what he described short of a new world? Fina Barbertole and vitamin B1, the history of our times. Oh Mary, you're wonderful. I love you. Yeah, I'll call you later, darling. Bye. Sorry counselor. Now where were we? About my client.  Counselor, did you happen to see the girl your client operated on last year in the morgue and a marble slab? Wasn't much human left of her, counselor, and very little dignity. My client was innocent. The court acquitted him. He was guilty. Sending your client will be happy to receive him. As for you and MacLeod, it's going to be a pleasure to examine you on the witness stand. Anything to give you a thrill, counselor? We may have a thrill or two in store for you. Meaning? For over a year, you've been personally making my client's life a living hell. Why? Why? Because I'm annoyed by criminals that get away with murder. You're very easily upset. Oh, I'm very sensitive. To me, your client is just another criminal. That's your story, MacLeod. Well, we've discovered otherwise. What's he driving? A fishing expedition. Arthur, come here. Sit down. Now, what'd you do with the money? I spent it. You spent $480? Yes. Why'd you take the money? What's the difference? I took it. I admit it. I've been studying a little address book, Arthur. Who's Joy Carmichael? Let her alone. Maybe I better give her a ring. She doesn't know anything about it. You wouldn't lie to me, would you? Why should I lie? I don't know. Why should you steal? Maybe it's because you're no good. What's the kid got to say, Jim? Admission. Watch him, Lou. I gotta make that phone call.  How'd you get into this mess? You're going to give me a lecture? Don't get funny with me, son. I'll knock you right through the floor. How'd you get into this mess? I don't know. You get trapped. Well, Claude told me you went to college. What'd you study? History. What for? I wanted to be a teacher. Want you have a career in that? I used to think so. Why didn't you finish college? They had a war, remember? I was in the Navy. You can't start from scratch at 25. Hi, Lieutenant. Hello, McLeod. Busy-Hawson. Where's Dr. St. Gallagher? Uptown, checking an apartment. Those two birdlers, Janini and Abbott. No. That's Janini over there. Dr. St. Gallagher took Abbott with him. Looks like we got some. Who's the punk in the corner with Brody? Arthur Kindred, in Veselman. 480 bucks. Admission. Come on in the office.  What's your personal angle on Schneider? Personal angle? His mouthpiece under the summer of the... Oh, fishing expeditions. You're sure? Sure, I'm sure. Now, what do you got on Schneider? A girl in the hospital, critical. I'll take Schneider over for a positive identification. I got another witness. He's on her way over here, and I'll get a signed statement from Schneider. Oh, a persuasion.  If you ever meet Schneider, Lieutenant, he calls himself a doctor, a surgeon. This is an impersonal business, McLeod.  You want to be the judge and jury, too. Well, I don't like lawyers coming in here with photos that marks my squad lousy. I don't like it, understand? Yes, sir. Can't you say yes, sir, without making it sound like an insult? Yes, sir.  You want my badge here? Take it. When I do all that for it. I got what you can on a Schneider, but no ruffles. I don't believe in coddling criminals. Oh, tell you, you do the whole system tells me.  All right, you got your orders. May I have the keys to the file, sir? You've got to have the last word, don't you? Thank you, sir. Mr. McLeod. Yes. I'm Susan Carver. Oh, yes, yes. Come in, please. Where's Arthur? What's happened to him? Did you reach your sister? What? No. Joy's visiting friends in Connecticut. Arthur, is he all right? Yes, he's inside. How well do you know him, Miss Carmichael? I've known him all my life. Kind of a wild boy, wasn't he? Arthur? No, of course not. Why? He gives your sister any money. My sister earns $25 an hour. She's a very successful model. Will you please tell me what this is all about? What's his relationship to your sister? Is he in love with her? My sister is one of the most beautiful girls in New York. A lot of men are in love with her. He didn't give any money, then? No. And your sister's boyfriend's in trouble. What trouble? He's a thief. Who says so? He does. I don't believe you. Sit here. Come on out, Buster. Jigs, what happened? Susan. Look, Mr. McLeod, the acid-drugged children into this. Now, Jigs... Susan, you shouldn't have come here. What happened? I took some money. Who from? A man I worked for. Why? Why? None of your business. Hey, Jim? Yeah. Got a minute? Yeah. He's here. Chris Schneider downstairs. He just came in. Susie, go home. Quick. Go home and don't see anything to anyone. Jigs, what happened? Have you got a lawyer? No. I'll phone Joy and tell her. Do you want to get her involved? You want to ruin her career? Well, young lady, satisfied. How much did he take? Four hundred and eighty dollars. What's the difference? Will you please tell her to go home? All right, Ms. Carmichael. Have your sister get in touch with me as soon as you hear from her. Susie, no! Don't do it!  Okay, Miss, you run along. Lou. Yeah? Keep an eye on Buster, will you? He's getting restless. Okay. Hey, hey, there he is. Schneider. Good. Well, Dr. Schneider, come in. Come in. Sit down. How's the doctor business? I'm a farmer. Oh, yes, yes, yes. What do you raise? Truck stuff. Vegetables. All things with you, McCloud. Well, this one business never has a depression.  Well, how'd you do it, Kurt? Who says I have? I do. Fifty-six thousand dollars in four different banks. Well, I got it honestly. How? I don't have to tell you that. Come on, Kurt, make it easy for yourself. My name is Kurt Schneider. I live in Oakdale, New Jersey. That's all I have to answer. You operated on Miss Harris, didn't you? No, I did not. She identified your picture. Here, sign it. What is it? And admission. Do you think I'm crazy? I'm getting impatient. You better talk, Kurt. I'm standing on my constitutional rights.  Miss Harris is waiting to see you. We're going to visit her in the hospital. And what you don't know is there's a corroborating witness. She's downstairs ready to identify you right now. Hey, you're getting paid, Kurt. Am I? Maybe I know why you're out to get me. Why? You know why. Look, this is your last chance, Kurt. Do you want to talk? My name is Kurt Schneider. I live in Oakdale, New Jersey. Okay, okay. This is McLeod. Send some boys up, will you? I want them for a lineup. Sivvy's hats and coats. Oh, and tell my witness I'll be down to get her in about two minutes. Yeah, thanks. Nice of you to come here, Miss Hatch. We appreciate it. Let's just get it over with. I got an engagement. All right, now you'll see 10 or 12 men in a lineup. Yeah, and then I touch the one on the shoulder. Say, that's a nice fur you're wearing, Miss Hatch. Like it, huh? Me? Uh-uh, dyed swirl. Looks real, though, don't it? Well, I guess they're ready for us in here. Now, look them over, Miss Hatch. Yeah, well, uh... Well, he isn't here. You haven't looked. Of course I did. Just look, will you? Not at me. Look at the men in the lineup. I don't recognize anyone. I never saw any of these guys in my life before. You identified a picture of one of these men. What are you trying to do? Make me give you a wrong identification? Look, take that, will you, Lou? Yeah. I got a good mind for charges against you. That's what I guess for trying to help you. Give you a badge and you think you can push the world around. You identified one of these men. Now point them out or... You what? Hey, Jim Smith. I called just now. Well? DA's office. The Harrisville just died. But... I'm gonna go with that case. DA says he can't get an indictment now. Just book the bum and forget it, he says. Yeah. Forget it. Let him go. Let him fill the morgues. Congratulations, Kurt. The girl died. All right, Miss Hatch, you earned your new fur piece. I hope you'll enjoy it. You can't talk to me that way. Well, I'll take a couple of drop dead pills. Get lost. I'm gonna see my lawyer about you. All right, boys. That's it. Thanks. Oh, boy. Well, McCloud, you look real unhappy.  Look, I'm a reporter. I got a job to do. Your corroborating witness, was she reached, you think? What do you think? I don't know. The thieves and murderers could have written the penal code themselves. Your justice. It's a rude, Goldberg contraction. I was talking to Judge Mendez today. He just got on the bench last year. You know, 29 years, a successful lawyer. He thought this would be a cinch. He's lost 40 pounds. He's as nervous as a cat. His wife thinks he's in love with someone else. He is. The law. He said to me today, he said, Joe, I got a sentence of man to death tomorrow. How can I do it? Who am I to judge? It takes a God to know, to really know. But I'm quoting a judge.  Evil has a stench of its own. A child can spot it. I know. I know, Jussie. My own father was one of them. No good he was. Possessed. Every day and every night of my childhood, I saw and heard him abuse and torment my mother. I saw that sadistic, no good father of mine drive my mother straight into a lunatic asylum. Yes, I learned it early and deep. 14 and alone in the world. I made war on it. Every time I look at one of these babies, I see my father's face. What do I do now, Mr. McCloud? Oh, forgive me, Mr. Schneider, for keeping you waiting.  There's the stairs, Kurt. Why don't you run for it? Why should I run?  As soon as you've booked me, I'm not on bail. When I go to trial, they couldn't convict me in a million years. Do you know that? Even if I were guilty, which I'm not.   Go in that office there. Now close that door and sit down.    But you butcher one more girl in this city in law or no law. I'll find you and I'll put a bullet in the back of your head and I'll drop your body in the East River. And then I'll go home and I'll sleep sweetly. Now I'll give you some advice. I've got plenty on you too, so watch your step. I happen to have friends too downtown with Paul. Lots of Paul. Yeah. You know, have you got any friends with Push? I got you, Mr. Schneider. How do you let me alone? No, let me go. Everybody else is going to let you go. Everybody except me.  All right. Get up, Kurt. Come on.  I can't.  I can't. There's something inside me when you're hit. You're all right. No.  What's going on inside? No. He hurt me. Take it easy, son. You'll be all right. The field, sir. Get on the phone. Get on the ambulance here. Yes, sir. Come on, McLeod. No. You lunatic. Didn't I just get through wanting it to lay off?  Why should he do that, Schneider? Tommy, Jacopetti. Same thing. She got him after me, too. Tommy. Tommy Jacopetti. Who's he? A little louder, Schneider. Just try and talk a little louder. I just saw him. He's unconscious. All right. Who's Tommy Jacopetti? I have no idea. What's the picture, McLeod? He needed me. He got fresh. He begged for it. I let him have it. That's all. I never heard of him. This Jacopetti used to be a black market guide. She finds a creep joint in the village. This man's hurt. The big brass will be down here throwing questions at me. And I'm going to have the answers. What'd he got on you, McLeod? Nothing. Gallagher? Yes, sir. Find Jacopetti. Bring him in. My car's downstairs. Use it. Yes, sir. And you, McLeod?  Yes, sir. That inside are Detective McLeod and Schneider's attorney, Mr. Sill. Yeah. Yeah, I see. Well, let me know right away, huh? Now, Mr. Sims, the hospital's making X-rays now. So far, you haven't got a leg to stand on. No, haven't I. How dare he take the law in his own hand? I'm going to press a felony assault so help me. I may press a charge myself, collusion, subordination of witnesses.  I had a witness here.  That's so absurd. I won't even... All right, cut that out, both of you. I warned you, Lieutenant. Personal motives are involved.  What motives? It's not to my client's interest to reveal them now. But I'll tell you once again, you can't use your badge for personal vengeance. Go ahead. Break me. You're worse than the criminals you represent. Yeah. Okay, be right out. You want it outside, McLeod? Some of those two burglars and any rabbits. Yes, sir. Bring your charges, counselor. It'll give me a chance to get your client on the stand and really tear his clothes off. Yours too. What kind of an officer is that? McLeod? He has his quirks. The understatement of the year. He's honest. No 10 boxes. I wasn't saying he had. I thought you was, maybe. Well, what were you saying? I can't discuss it with you. Well, I'd love to discuss it with someone. Who do you suggest? McLeod or his wife. What? His wife. Oh, never mind. Skip it. Hey, you got a minute, McLeod? No. What were the two thieves, Abbott and Junini? Talk together. Now, what about Kirk Schneider? He left here 20 minutes ago in an ambulance. What happened? He tripped. Yeah, he tripped. No story. No. Look, Chalmers, there are angles here I don't feel happy about. What angles? I don't know yet. Come on, give off the record. All right, look. Kirk Schneider is a butcher who's murdered two women and got away with it. It was time somebody put the fear of God in him. The law wouldn't so I did. Printed you. So go ahead. You don't like cops. Here's your chance. I don't like cops.  You can be an awful small. I beg your pardon. Yes, sir. Oh, come in, Mr. Pritchett. We've been waiting for you. Did you get my money back from Arthur Kindred? I'm afraid not. What did he do with it? Women, flush the looms? You'll be in court tomorrow morning? Of course. We can count on that. When I make up my mind, I'm like iron. Fine. Arthur, come out here. Arthur, why did you do this to me? You robbed me. You spent my money on fast women. That's not so, Mr. Pritchett. You know how hard I work 10, 12 hours a day in the store. I want my money back. Can you get it back? I promise you. What are you doing here, Miss Carmichael? I brought the money. Susan, no. No. $120. I'll get the rest tomorrow, Mr. Pritchett. You can't take her money. You can't. I'm Arthur's friend. I'll sign a note, anything you suggest. You get in touch with your sister? Yes. Susan! I talked to Joy, Arthur. She doesn't even care. She said she can't afford to get involved in your trouble. Look, Miss, he's no good. Believe me, I know. So take your money and run. McLeod? Yes, Lieutenant. Get me the old files on the Cotsworth School. Cotsworth? 1938? You heard me. Well, they'll be downstairs in the storage room. I'll have to dig them out. Then dig them out. Do it now. Yes, sir. Mr. Pritchett, I know Arthur. He's never done anything wrong, never. If he needed the money, if he was sick or something, I'd trust it, this boy. Mr. Pritchett? Oh? I'm Detective Brody. I've been listening. I'm asking you to reconsider. But why did he do this terrible thing? Like it. It's so hard to explain. Even to myself. She was the one human being in the world I loved. Jake! Jake, don't. She changed. Sure, I know. I know I should have accepted that. But I couldn't. I made a final grandstand play for her. I took your money, Mr. Pritchett, and I blew the works on her. But maybe I could... Anyway. I lost. You admit you did wrong? Oh, yes. Yeah? You willing to pay him back? Yes, of course, as soon as I can. Well, Mr. Pritchett, this kid had a fine record in the Navy, remember? I know. He took a lot of chances for us. Maybe we ought to take one for him. Now, why don't we talk this over, huh? Come along, Arthur. You too, Ms. Carmichael.  What's this about, Lieutenant? When you found the house... No, no, no, you're all upset. Well, my husband, Jim, hasn't been shot. No, no, no, of course not. You'll see him in a few minutes. He's down in the basement. I, uh... I didn't want him around when you came in. What is it? What's wrong? He assaulted a prisoner, Mrs. McLeod. Jim wouldn't do that. Oh, you can take my word that he did. Did you ever run into a man named Kurt Schneider? No. Do you ever hear your husband mention the name Kurt Schneider? No, Lieutenant. Jim never discusses his work with me. Yeah, that's a good idea. We don't like to bring this sort of stuff into our homes. Uh... Where'd you live before you were married? I... I'm from upstate. Well? Then, during the war, I came down and got a job in a defense plant in New Jersey, Newark. Newark? Now, this doctor was in Newark about that time. Doctor? Yeah, Kurt Schneider. But, uh, you never knew him. No. He knows you, Mrs. McLeod. What makes you think that? He said so. I'm afraid he's mistaken. He was positive. Are you sure that Dr. Schneider never treated you? I just told you, no. If you'll tell the truth, Mrs. McLeod, you can help your husband. I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm not lying. I'm gonna have to ask you a personal question. Don't get angry, but I must ask him. Have you ever had a child? You know, Jim, and I have new children. That's not what I ask. You have no right. All right, all right, all right. Now, does this name mean anything to you? Tommy Chocopetty. No. Chocopetty's here. Mrs. McLeod, he's waiting down the hall. Wait here, please. Now, what do you want? Oh, no. No. Mayor, Mayor, will you? Yeah, Lou. Uh, Jim, I just had a long talk with Mr. Pritchett. He's willing to drop the charges. Is that true, Mr. Pritchett?  Well, I'd like to give the boy another chance. To steal from someone else? I'm a gambler, Mr. McLeod. I bet on horses. Now, this once, I'll bet on a human being. Stick the horses. The percentage is better. Jim, I advised Mr. Pritchett to do this. You had no right, Lou. This is my case. You know better. Jim, you're busy. There's two percolars. Be right with you, Gallagher. Well, I didn't think you'd mind what I do. Well, I'm sorry. There's a sheet, Jim. Here's the journey's record. Never been arrested, he says. Well, Charlie, do you like talking now? What do you guys want from me? I'm a mother's grave. I've done nothing. And you never were in jail? May I drop dead on the spot? Heartbreaking, isn't it? These are your fingerprints, Charlie. They never lie. 27 arrests all told, and three jail sentences. Nice going, Charlie. I was walking into an apartment looking for a friend. Mind them, my own business. So it's not a crime. Mind them, my own business. So it's the wrong apartment. With a Jimmy and a gun? Who are you kidding? If he makes one false move, you have a club. Use it. What about this snook, his partner? Book him. Book him both. Jacopetti, I'd like some information. That woman downstairs, Mrs. McCloud. But, Mary, that girl's 100%. I wouldn't say a word against her. You don't have to. Besides, all this is off the record. I better phone my lawyer. It ain't necessary. My lawyer gets mad. I'm a legitimate businessman. You're taking up with my attorney. Look, I've gone through the files, Jacopetti. We've got a sheet on you, but we don't operate in New Jersey. What went on there ain't none of our business, unless you make it so. Capiche. Yeah. Yeah. Like the fish. Yeah. Now, when did you know this girl? Nine, ten years ago. You like her? I was crazy about her. I'd have married her if I got a divorce. What broke her up? Who knows? Dames. Who could understand that? What do you think? I think maybe I'll call my lawyer. She have a baby? Yeah. She comes to see me. This is after she runs out of me. I wanted that, baby. I told her, give me your son. I'll give you anything you want, the moon out of the sky. Only that's the last I see of her. Next thing I hear, she's gone to some doctor. A bum. Didn't even have a hospital. Baby was born dead. Is that all? Almost. Well, maybe now you'll tell me what it's all about, huh? And where's Mary? Come on. Let's go down and see her. Miss Carmichael, save your breath. Arthur's under arrest. Are you so perfect, Mr. McLeod? Didn't you ever make a mistake? I was no on this job, Miss Carmichael. We brought in two boys. They looked like babies. They cried. I let them go. Two nights later, two nights, one of them held up a butcher, shot him through the head and killed him. Yes, I made a mistake. I'm not going to do it again. Well, Mr. Pritchett? Well, really, I don't know what. It is the first offense. It's never a first offense. It's just the first time to get caught. Why are you so vicious? I'm not vicious, young lady. I didn't steal this man's money. He did. Look, this is a war, Mr. Pritchett. We know it. They know it, but you don't. We're your army. We're here to protect you. I'm sick and tired of massaging the complainant into doing his simple duty. Well, I guess I got to leave it up to you, officer. Hey, Jim, you wanted in the lieutenant's office. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you, Mr. Pritchett. Be in court tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. Think about that, Katz with... Mary, what are you doing here? What is this, honey? I sent for him. Why? This is Tommy Jacopeli. Hi, champ. Hey, what is it about? Good, Schneider. May I? May I, please? Yeah, go ahead. Jim, the lieutenant won't believe that you knew nothing about this. I... What about what, Mary? Dr. Schneider. What's he got to do with you? And he's no doctor. He isn't? I thought he was. I had occasion to go to him once when I needed help. But you were what? A long time ago, Jim. Wait a minute. What's this man here got to do with all this? We... We were going together. I see. Well, when my... my baby was born... Okay. Diagrams aren't necessary. I get the picture. All right, beat Schneider up good. Personally. You see, McLeod...  No, you see.  All right, cut that out. I don't have to take that from you, champ. Touch me again and I'll tear you around. I said cut it out. I'll flatten you myself. You mind if I talk to my wife alone? Please. All right, Tommy, let's go. You can leave now, anyway. What's going on? I'm sorry, Jim. Please forgive me. Why didn't you tell me? Oh, I wanted to, but I was so afraid of losing you. Jack of petty. How long did you go with him? About... about a year. Did he give you money? No. Give you a present? Yes, he gave me some presents. Expensive ones? I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? I don't know. What difference does it make? This difference. I just assumed Schneider died. I'd rather go to jail for 20 years and find out my wife was a tramp. Don't say that, Jim. It isn't true. You know it isn't true. I thought I knew you. I thought you were everything good and pure. I tried to make my life everything you wanted it to be. You know, if I could make my past life, oh, I'd do that too, gladly. But I can't. No one can. I made a mistake. I admit it. I've paid for it plenty, isn't that enough? I just heard from the hospital. Schneider's all right. I can't find anything wrong with it. You can go whenever you want. Well, Jim, I thank you. It was a pleasure. I understand. I was on my own for the first time in a large city. Some war was on. I don't have been out with kids in my own age until I met this man. He paid me a lot of attention. I was flattered. I thought he was romantic and glamorous. Is that why we... you can't have any children? But, Jim, I can't take much more of this. Please try and understand. Understand? What's there to understand?  You had a child by him. Tell me, what's there left to understand? It's just another routine knife. A young man named Arthur Conrad is being fingerprinted. A shoplifter's trying to reach her attorney. A pickpocket's protesting his fate and a couple of burglars with impressive records glumly watch as their victims arrive to identify their property. But to Detective McLeod, it's a night of agony. The end of his world. Mary has gone, and McLeod sat at his desk typing his report on Arthur Kimman. Jim, Jim, you want a drink? No. Jim, I've been your partner for 13 years. Did I ever ask you for a favor? What is it, Lou? That kid, I want you to give him a break. What makes him so special? A lot. I think he's a good kid. He reminds me of my boy. Mike? Mike was a hero. Why? Because he was killed? Mike was alive today to have the same problems this kid has. We don't understand him, Jim. I didn't even understand my own kid until he was killed. It was too late then. So how about it? I can't do it. I can't drop the charges. What do you mean you can't drop them? I'm not tired of no. Mike, partner, arrest his own mother. You shouldn't drink so much, Lou. It melts the lining of your brain. Maybe that's what you need. Maybe it'll melt that rock you got for a heart. Stop it. My nerves are like Banjo Spring. Well, play something on him. Play Love's Old Sweet Soul. I'm warning you, Lou.  Set up and lay off. It's a matter with you. I'm drowning. That's all. I'm drowning for my own use. You sure wish I could understand what makes you tick. I don't expect you to understand me. I'm a cop because I believe in principle. Principle, Lou. All my life, I've lived according to principle and I couldn't change even if I wanted to. Well, Jim, be a little human.  How? How do you compromise? How do you ask for that kid in there? Who's he?  And I can't even compromise on that. So what do I do? What do I do? Try picking up that phone and calling. Oh, go away, Yusuf.  Call Mary. You don't know anything about it. Don't I? Jim, pick up the phone. Get on your knees. Crawl. He doesn't have the phone. She's coming up the stairs right now. Mary, I'm glad you're back. I'm leaving now, Jim. Here. Here are the keys. No, no, wait a minute. My taxi's down there. Just send it away. No, my things are in it. What things? My bags and my trunk. Oh, Mary, be sensible. Jim, please. I don't want any more argument. I can't stand it. Look, come inside. I can't talk to you here. Let me just take it. Let it take it. Look, Mary, this isn't a time or place to discuss our lives past, present or future.  I'll be back at 8 a.m. and we'll work this out then. You think we can? We'll have to. I don't think it's possible. Wait a minute. I don't get this. Why are you so bitter? Who's to blame for the now you put me in a cement mixer. Now you're acting as if I were the tramp. Don't say that. I wasn't myself. You were never more yourself, Jim. I'm sorry, Mary. It's all right. I'm beyond feeling. I'm nice and numb. But I know what I'm doing has got to be done. You're married to me. You can't just walk out. Please, Mary, I'm crying. I'm crying. To what? To put all this behind me. And you can't do it. I know the way your mind works, Jim, and never let's go. The rest of our days will be living with this. If you won't be saying it, you'll be thinking it. And I couldn't take it.  Why didn't you ever tell me? If you'd come to me once. Just once. What good would it have done? Would you have been able to forgive me? Jim, I can't go over this again and again.  I understand. Simple. Go home now and wait for the morning. That won't help us. Please, I'm so tired. Let me go now, Jim. To what? What do you go to? You who turn on every light in the house when I'm not there? Let me go, Jim.  Where will you go? Jim, I beg you. No, Mary, I'm not going to. You're hurting my arm. I'm sorry. The taxi's waiting. Please, Jim. You'd go without a tear. I wouldn't say that. One or two perhaps. I haven't any left. Mary, I... Mary, you just don't stop loving someone. I wouldn't have thought so. I wouldn't have believed it could happen, but there it is.  It was one of those deaths, sudden, unexpected, like being run over by a truck. It happened. Who do you think you're kidding? No one. Please do all of myself. Oh, Mary, I love you. It's no use, sweetheart. It's no use. I couldn't go home if you weren't waiting for me with the radio going and the smell of coffee on the stove I'd blow out my brains. I wouldn't, Mary. If I went home to an empty flat, I'd... Yes? I'm going to see you, Jim, that lawyer, Sims. I'll go home now. No, no. Counselor, I told you your client was faking. He's still very weak. He'll be okay in the morning. When he's brought back here, he'd better remain okay. You're not to lay a finger on him if you do... And advise him again to keep his mouth shut. You're lucky you're not facing a murder charge right now. Well, I could always get you to defend me. And I probably would. That's my job. No matter how I feel personally. As long as you get your fees? I've defended many men of my own expense. That's very noble of you. Nobility doesn't enter into it. Every man has a right to counsel. No matter how guilty he might seem to you. Or to me, for that matter. And I defend my client. I don't judge him. That remains with the court. And you've got that taken care of, Counselor, between bought witnesses and purged testimony. People who live in glass houses, McLeod, remember? What do you mean by that? If you're so set on hanging, Schneider, why don't you ask Mrs. McLeod if she can supply a corroborating witness while you're at night? Jim, what's the matter, dear? Nothing. This has been a terrible day. Yes, yes. And yet, in a way, I'm glad it's out in the open. I had such an awful feeling of guilt for so long. All right, all right. I needed help and there was no one. I couldn't even go to my parents. They didn't know? No. You didn't go home? Where did you go? That's when I came to New York. And how long was that before I met you, Mary? Two years. Who'd you go with then? No one. How many others were there, Mary? What? How many others? None. Jim, what's the matter with you? Wait a minute. I'm not topsy. I witnessed yesterday. The medical examiner removed the top of a man's skull, took out the brain, and held it in his hand, like this. Why are you telling me this? Because I'd give everything I owned to take out my brain, hold it under the faucet, and wash away the dirty pictures you put there tonight. Dirty pictures? Yes. Yes, that would be fine.  I know I've watched it. Mary, that's enough. No, let's have the truth. I could never find it in me to see one tiny flaw in you, because I loved you so. God helped me, I still do. But let's have the truth for once. You think you're on the side of the angel, and you're not.  Why, you're everything you always said you hated in your own father. I'm not, I'm not going to let you wander off in the streets this way. I'm going to take you home myself. Hold forward.  Where are you going? Far away. You won't find me. When will I see you? Never. Goodbye, Jim. Don't you feel good? Yes, sir, I feel all right. Am I a crazy look at him, brother? Yeah, you're going all green, Jim. I've got a headache. You better go home. I've got a squeal to finish off, Lieutenant. Brother, I'll finish it. I'd rather do it myself. You go home. That's an order. Yes, sir. Marcus, you'll catch with Jim tonight. Yes, Lieutenant. What happened, Jim? What's wrong? Mary, Mary left me. Walked out? Where, where finished? She'll come back. No. This was for keeps. You know, Lou, I built my whole life on hating my father. All the time he was inside me laughing. Maybe he was crying the poor sucker. Maybe he couldn't help himself either. You see, by the time I met... All right. Nobody makes a move. Drop it.    I'll take five or six shoe-bombs with me first. All right. Now take it easy. Can't get out unless you get her. I was wondering when you'd get around to this, Charlie. How'd he get the gun? Mine. Grabbed it out of my holster. Gallish. Give me that gun. In the belly, you get it. One step. I'm warning you. One step. Easy, Jimmy. He's got no place to go, and he can't get by the desk so easy.  Give me that gun. No, you don't. One more step. Jim, no. Stay away. Give me that gun. I'm warning you, McCloud.   Notify communications. Get an ambulance. Never. Never mind the doctor. Get a priest. You feel that bad? Jim, they can't hurt you. You're one of the indestructibles. You're immortal, baby. Almost, Lou. Almost. Give me your hand. Squeeze. Hard it. Is that girl still here? Bust his girlfriend? Susie? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I hope you're right, Lou. Maybe you'll come in. Next week with a murder rat. I don't know anymore, huh? How are you feeling, Sean? Oh, Joe. Joe, fine, Mary. Ask her to forgive me. And help her. Janini's helping. Wait? Sure, sure, sure. Now, take it easy. Jim, about Arthur. Send him home. Who's he talking about? That, that Bezelman rat. We don't have any case lieutenant. The complainant, the complainant with... The name of the father and the son and the holy ghost. Oh, my God. I am hardly sorry for having offended thee. I, I, I detest all my sins because I dread the law. The law's a... He's dead. I'm going to resolve with the help of thy grace to confess my sins, to do kindness unto him and my life on it. Amen. Amen. Arthur. Yes, sir.  Take Susie home. But don't you make a monkey out of me. If I see you up here again, I'll break every bone in your body. Now, don't make a monkey out of me. Don't worry, Mr. Brody. I won't. He won't, Mr. Brody. All right, now go on. Get lost. Don't. The law communications. There's no time to monahand. Notify the commissioner, the DA, homicide squad. 21st precinct detective. Shot. Killed. Kirk Douglas and Eleanor Foster. It's been a long time since you received a curtain call in this theater. Yes, Irving. It has, and it's certainly good to be home again. Home, he says. Eleanor, do you know where he had to go? We had to go to get Kirk for the night's play. Rome? Paris? Cairo? Nope. 20,000 leagues on to the sea. Oh. Oh, did you catch him when he came up for air? Yes. We just waited around the Walt Disney Studios, where he's starring in the Jules Verne classic adventure yarn with James Mason, Paul Lucas and Peter Law. Hey, Eleanor, why don't you come over and watch some of the scenes for 20,000 leagues on to the sea? I'd love to, Kirk. I'm certainly happy to have you back home making pictures. Thanks. And we're glad you came all the way over from MGM to appear with Kirk tonight. Oh, you're making pictures at MGM now, huh? Yes. We have executive suite there, you know. Executive suite? I always knew you'd amount to something, Eleanor. Now, Kirk, you've been home long enough to know executive suite is one of MGM's 30th anniversary productions with that terrific cast, William Holden, June Allison, Barbara Sandwick, Frederick March, Walter Pigeon, Shelley Winters, Paul Douglas and Louis Calhurn. Wow, what a cast. And with three beautiful feminine stars. And we're proud to say they're luxe girls, just as Eleanor is. I certainly am, Irving. Luxe soap has been my favorite confection care for, well, as long as I can remember. It's wonderful. And I understand, Irving, you have a wonderful play for next week. Next week, we're going to bring you one of the most honored motion pictures of our time. A great comedy drama. Recipient of seven Academy Awards. It's paramount pictures unforgettable, going my way. One of Leo McCary's excellent productions. And as our stars, that excellent actor, William Lundigan. And recreating his Academy Award-winning role, will be that lovely rascal, Barry Fitzgerald. I just loved it, Irving. Good night. Good night, everyone. Good night, and hurry back. Detective Brody at your barrier is Dr. Schneider, Larry Dotkin as Jacopetti, Herb Vigrin as Joel, Dan Reis as Sims, Herb Butterfield as Mr. Pritchett, Marvin Bryan as Arthur, Julie Bennett as Susan, Doris Singleton as Miss Hatch, Jeff Mankin as Ginny Knee, Herb Ellis as Detective Gallagher, and Eddie Marr as Detective Docus. Our radio player was the best actor in Docus. Our radio player was adapted by S.H. Barnett, and our music was composed and directed by Rudy Schrager. Don't forget Lever Mother's Pair in the Spare Plan, the smart new way to buy stockings. You get free, nationally advertised, per-


So, what did we just see? The generated images are pretty bad. Why? We're using a model trained without any constraints on the distribution in that latent space. And then we've picked new vectors according to some probability distribution. Now that probability distribution P of Z might not look like anything like P of H in the model where we calculated in a forward way. This is not what the original autoencoders were trained to do. What they are trained to do is just use a representation that internally allows us to produce the images that we put in. And now where we're going here is we want to produce variational autoencoders that make probabilistic and generative autoencoders explicitly. So what's the idea here? Implicitly, we've defined a probability distribution over X by passing a probability distribution over Z through the decoder. Technically, this is a density network, and McKay and Gebs have been doing these things in the 1990s. So, what's the idea there? We can say we take a probability distribution P of Z of which we assume that it's a Gaussian. It goes to the decoder. At the end, we will have a very complex probability distribution in X space. Already here, when we have a non-linear decoder, the Gaussian that goes in will produce a complex distribution. Now this distribution, we'd like to be good. So we have effectively a maximum likelihood problem. We want to maximize the log probability on the points from the training data. So we want this to be similar to the real distribution. This is, of course, hot. So, and even the formulation of the problem is very hot. Like what does it mean to produce a good probability distribution? So read through the section that's called formalizing the problem and discuss with your part if it makes sense to you.


The single most important problem of Colombia is poverty. When we started the current government two years ago, more than 37% of our people were living under the poverty line. And we are fighting poverty strongly. Now just above 30% live below the poverty line. And Broadband is an excellent tool to fight poverty, because with Broadband, people have access to education, to health services, to job opportunities, and that's the best way to fight poverty. So in the case of Colombia, what we are doing in terms of ICT, we have a main goal, reducing poverty with Broadband. We have many, many projects. We have a comprehensive program called Vive Digital, which is live digital and includes almost 100 initiatives. Among them we have a very ambitious and successful e-government plan, and we now in Latin America we are leaders in terms of e-government. We are bringing in government not only to the ministers, but also to municipalities and rural areas, where people can have the opportunity to interact with governments on the net. We also have a very strong e-health program, not only to bring in health services, but also to modernize the health industry in Colombia. So in Colombia, we are developing the whole ecosystem, and in that ecosystem, developing applications is key. And the element there, the key success of that part of the ecosystem is that we have to develop our own solutions. The global companies are not going to come to the developing world to solve our problems. We have to find a way to solve them by ourselves. In Colombia, of course, we speak Spanish, and we develop a lot of content in Spanish, but we also have a lot of Native American groups, and we help them to develop their own content in their own language. And that's why we got this year, at the WISES, we got the prize as having the most inclusive program in Colombia for different languages and cultures. The first value is meeting people. The first value is knowing all ministers around the world and sharing experiences with them. Seeing their own policies, seeing what it is working and what it is not and learning from them. But we also are working strongly on international cooperation because today we have to create a level field in terms of global connectivity, and not only in the development of infrastructure but also the development of content. All international cooperation is key here. The developing world needs more cooperation to create those applications, to create our own content, to create our own solutions for our problems.


Section 7A just seemed to have a David versus Goliath feel to it. Hermontown is a Goliath, they've gone to state seven straight years. While Greenway, who looked to play David, hasn't been to state since 2001. The Hawks already beat Greenway once this year and haven't lost since their first game of the season. And third period Hawks already up 3-0 Logan Judnick on the breakaway. Get, stop, Tyler Watkins, right place, right time. Cleans up, Hawks up four. Raiders would answer shortly after Nikolai Rajala, tips went home. Greenway finally gets on the board. They're within just three, but Hermontown would add another just two minutes later. Watkins, his second of the night. Hermontown wins, it goes back to state for the eighth straight year, five to one. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


So when looking for fruit fly in your backyard there's really two things to look out for. The first sign is the place where the female fruit fly has laid her eggs and that shows up as a sting mark so you can see it might be a little bruised like this and as that progresses it could become more prominent as the eggs develop and so that's the first thing to look for. If you see anything like that well over time they will develop and they might start off with just a little blemish on the skin but eventually they'll turn into a place where the maggots have developed. The only way to really tell if you've got fruit fly in your backyard once you've seen a spot is to cut it open and if you can cut it open and you see anything wriggling around and so this one here you can see there's a little larvae there and that is a really tell-tale sign that we've got a problem so if you do find any larvae in your fruit please ring our fruit fly hotline on 1300 660010 and we can make sure that we can come out and tell you if it's fruit fly or not.


Hi, students. It's Shayna, your teacher at espressoenglish.net.  Before I begin, I wanted to invite you to check out my phrasal verbs and conversation course. This is one of my most popular courses at espresso English because it focuses on the phrasal verbs that are really, really common in everyday spoken English. And it teaches you these phrasal verbs through dialogues, natural situations, where we would use them. So make sure to click on the link in this video or in the description for more information and registration in my phrasal verbs course. Let's learn about come up. Here are three options, three possible definitions of this phrasal verb, and only one is correct. I'd like you to guess which one A, B, or C and post your answer in the comments and then keep watching until the end of this video to see if you're right. So does come up mean appear unexpectedly, become popular, or improve? A, B, or C. Let me describe a situation where we'd use it. Let's say that you work at a software company, so making computer programs. And one day you're going to launch a new version of the software to all of your customers. And you're part of the team that will ensure that this launch goes smoothly. So on the day of the big launch, you launch the new version of the software and you work all day on it. And then a couple days later, your manager asks how the launch went. And you tell him, well, a few technical issues came up during the launch, but my team and I have already handled them and now everybody is satisfied. So based on that situation, what do you think it means to come up? Does it mean to appear unexpectedly, to become popular or to improve? Ready to find out? Come up means to appear unexpectedly. So in this situation, when I said a few technical issues came up during the launch, that means that there were a few issues or a few problems that appeared and they were unexpected. But fortunately, me and my team, we handled them and we were able to satisfy all the customers. You'll often see this phrasal verb come up used with the words problems, issues or something. So I said some technical issues came up. I could also say some problems came up during the launch. Sometimes when people don't go to something they were planning on going to, they say, oh, something came up. In other words, some other problem or responsibility appeared, maybe their child got sick, maybe their car needed to be taken into the mechanic. Something came up, some problems, some issue appeared unexpectedly and then that person couldn't go to the event they were planning on going to. Come up can also be used in a slightly different way when talking about conversations. So if something comes up in conversation, it means it appears, not necessarily unexpectedly, maybe unexpectedly, but not necessarily. For example, let's say you're having a meeting with your team at the software company and some people make suggestions for the next version of the software. And so later you could tell your manager, hey, here are a few suggestions that came up during the meeting. Came up in this case means they were introduced into the conversation. They appeared in the conversation. Or if your manager asks, Oh, well, what did the team think about the new website design? Then you might say, Oh, that didn't come up during the meeting. In other words, we didn't talk about it. This topic did not appear in the conversation. All right. So now that you have an idea of how to use come up, I'd love to see you use it in a sentence. Remember, putting these phrasal verbs into practice is really important to help you remember them better. So post a comment and try to use come up in your own sentence. Inside my phrasal verbs course, if you join phrasal verbs in conversation, there are also opportunities for you to write your own sentences using the phrasal verbs in the course and actually send them to me for feedback. So I'll correct them and let you know if you've used that phrasal verb correctly. So if that interests you, make sure to click on the link for the course phrasal verbs in conversation. Thank you for watching me today. I hope you've enjoyed today's daily phrasal verb lesson and I will see you in the next one. Bye bye.