colleagues of the black community and also, again, tomorrow, our Voya Tiempo will talk to us, and Woody King Jr. on Friday. And it is a time of uncertainty, a time where we do not know what to do. We do not know what will happen. And we do not really know how the world will change, perhaps it has already changed. There's a car that is in full speed on the brakes. It's in the air and we don't know if we will land on four wheels or a big crash. And we do need some answers, but also our theater community and performance community needs things to think about. And if this is a time, we can really think. It's a time also where we can listen. And we have done that here for our 11 weeks. We are the only institution, I think, in America that is open, that produces new content every day related to this. And today is a very special day for us, important day. It is the first time we also have a colleague, a thinker with us who is not directly from the field of theater and performance. Even so, he writes about theater. He also wrote a bit for theater, if I understand, but he's a thinker, a maître à penser, as the French say. And we need that now to think and he has done that all his life. And he wrote something beautiful, or talked something beautiful. This was called Bozoo Brauchman Kunst. Why does one need art? He gave a talk at the State Academy of Fine Arts in Karlsruhe, Germany. The Riemann Schneider Lecturer with Caroline Meister and published by Walter König in Switzerland. And he said, why does one need art already then? And now we really have these questions now. So really, first of all, Jean-Luc Nossi is one of the significant philosophers of our time. Thank you for joining us. It is a big honor to have you with us. And thank you to Irene Anastas for translating. She is here in Brooklyn, an artist based in Brooklyn, by Jean-Luc. Where are you right now? And what time is it? Me? Mm-hmm. Ah, I am in Strasbourg, France. And it is six PM. Six PM. How was the time, this time of corona for you? How did you experience this moment? Well, this is precisely an experience, but it is not an experience because of the lockdown and the question of illness, et cetera, et cetera. That's all. It is absolutely not an experience. The experience has been the experience of the way the entire world was concerned with this virus. And how this virus did work and work still as I would say, as a revelator. Can I say that? As a revelator? Or in another language, a catalyst, a catalyster of something, something which is already there since a long time and which is not finished and will not be finished even with a pandemic. That is the global, to say that with the word of Freud, the global disease of the civilization. The virus has been and is still an excellent revelator or catalyst of our disease. In itself, in itself, it is not such a big problem and I can partly understand that some people said and said still today, it was not needed to make a lockdown, et cetera, and briefly, we can let the old people die and the old and weak people die like me, for example, people of 80 with the immunosuppression or depression, they are good to die anyway. But precisely, precisely the mere fact that we have been pushed in such discussion like what are we doing with the old people, with the already quasi dying people, et cetera. So only the fact that we are pushed towards those questions is a revelator because since a long time, we know that our developed societies with so many old people and so many people who don't have a very good life. No, it was all the time in France or in Europe, all the time it was talking about, I don't know the name in the, the old age home in France, in France is a little terrible because there isn't acronyms, this H, E, E, H, E, P, hospitalization for adults, no, it's not, it's dependent. And so with the H-pad, H-pad is a word pronounced a thousand times a day now and there are, of course, are not very good places, even if some are good, some are not so good, so good, but the question is not there. The question is that we don't know how to manage with the old people. Why? Because we don't know what is, what can be the life of people no longer able to walk, to produce something, to enter, and this is a question belonging to the very heart of our civilization, very heart. So just that, I will not talk too long about that, I think that on this level and on many other level we could see, we can't see, how there is now a kind of revelation or, but the revelation is like any revelation, like the revelation of God, the revelation of God is the revelation that God was all the time there before. God says only, you know, Ole, I'm here. So, and now the precisely not God, but the precisely the contrary, in a way the contrary of God, the absence of sense of our civilization reveals itself completely, with an ambiguity. The ambiguity is that at the same time we started to think how precious is human life and besides this other side of the old people is that any human life deserves respect and medicine, et cetera, et cetera. But at the same time, I think, because we have the two things together, on one side we don't know how to deal with the long life, on the other side, all life is an absolute, absolute value, but we don't know how to put both together and it has been like an only one answer that is medicine and medicine and medicine and then everything to protect the people, protect more the old people, et cetera, et cetera. And the revelation here is that we don't know why human life is so absolutely precious. We don't know and I would say we are in the world where it is the total revelation of Marx, I would say, in the meaning that Marx said, capitalism knows only one value and the only one value is the general equivalency that is money. Equivalency means all value equal or you can't change everything. Recently, I discovered that Marx repeated without knowing that a formula of Spinoza. Spinoza has, it's not exactly the same, but Spinoza has for the money this very interesting Latin formula, compendium universale. Compendium means in Latin abstract. As I think that abstract is a good translation for compendium. In the French translation of Spinoza, there are sometimes resumé, resumé is like abstract and other, I don't remember another. Well, I say that just because it is very interesting to think that already more than one century before Marx, you have already seen this terrible formula, that is everything can't be commandier, resumé. Reduced? Reduced, reduce, exactly, reduce, reduce, reduce. So yes, we could say that is the absolute reduction of the value. And now I think we are in front of a geo-party that is to think that with life, we have a good value. But why? Because if life is by itself a value, we have to answer two questions, I would say. The first is the question of death because there is no life without death. And precisely, precisely through the corona crisis, we discover a lot of very interesting question about death. On one side, the death of the people in the hospital without the possibility of the presence of the parents and the family, et cetera, has been a problem, of course. And what is interesting is that this problem was already a problem with every epidemic or pandemic since in the history, you know. So... Already. But on the other side, just to finish, on one side, so there is a question of death. And the second question is that in a way it is the same question. It is then how can we name, if you want, the value of life or what to do, what content, I mean, quel contenu donner à la valeur de la vie? What content give to the value of life? How much is the life worth here? No, what... Because it goes back to money to say how much is life worth. It's the language of the economy. In a way, if you want the question, the question is what is the value of the value of life? We say the life is an absolute value. Okay, what is this value? Because if this value is not the general equivalency or the compendium universally, then it is clear. And I think these words, these words more or less, more consciously or not the thought of Marx, the value of the life is the unicity, the singularity of the life. Because it is not life as, I don't know, as strongness, as power to work, to produce. Maybe of this point of view, Marx was too much still in the thinking of this kind of value. Nevertheless, when Marx says that beyond the private property and the collective property, there is what he calls the individual property. And he doesn't give any explanation to that. Then there is no other way to think this individuality in Marx. Precisely, not in the meaning of the individual making his way within society, but much more of the irreductibility of the individual.  Commensurable. Between us. Absolutely not. Well, and then, so how could we name this value? Or maybe a better way to ask the question would be to say, in French. Comment est-ce que cette valeur vaut? How does this value evaluate? It's worse, maybe. In German, in the German of Kant, in German language in general, but Kant used this word, which is one word, which is of the same family the value in German is vert. For example, in Marx, the plus value is mer vert. La plus value chez Marx. Surplus value. This is mer vert. But the word is translated in French by dignity. And if we speak of dignity, you understand that we speak of some things that cannot be negotiated on the market. There is no equivalence. Your dignity, your dignity, my dignity are exactly the same being absolutely different at the same time. Well, that is very, very, very important. And how much does is the value of life? Is it $20 worth like the George Floyd murder? He was impressed that a life does count, that a blood did count in America at the moment also of George Floyd. Do you think this time of corona made us more aware? Is this a time of change in that capitalist or post-capitalist society where we are now? Are we at a moment of turn? I think precisely we are in a moment of turn since, I don't know all the time when I think about that, I think the turn maybe started with the First World War or the turn started with the end of the Socialist Republic Union between both is almost one century that is the 20th century so I think the 20th century has been the century of the starting of a term and more than a term that is something I like to call that mutation. Like in biology a mutation is for example the genetic mutation is that in a genome in some DNA there is a change in the position of several genes the position or one one goes out or one returns itself so this is a mutation in the animal species and what is treated mainly with the species of small insects which reproduce themselves very quickly so it is possible to see how the mutation occurs through the generation in each generation there are mutations many of them are what is called by the biologist lethal that is lethal but some are not and some give the possibility to a new variety inside the species so I think for example some kind did have some mutation like maybe the first the biggest mutation was the end of the human sacrifice which is precisely the phenomenon that makes after makes possible the mutation of the Antiquity in the Mediterranean world and from there the starting of this occidental civilization which became the worldwide civilization even if there are some other in evidence for example from Chinese, from India from a lot of people and civilization in the world needs all around South America but but it was there a mutation because we started with something called rationality logos, etc and then capitalism was itself a mutation that is and maybe we we have still to understand what happens with capitalism yes, we change completely precisely our relation to the value to evaluation this is why Nietzsche who is an old friend of Irene Nietzsche was so occupied with not the idea of the value but the idea of the evaluation, what makes the value what gives the value to the value and if Nietzsche speaks about changing the value changing the value is not to say, now I prefer I prefer what, for example I prefer woman over man the value should be woman but it makes no sense but what makes sense is a gesture of evaluation and for a very long long time the whole mankind did have the gesture of evaluating that there is something like God or something like like no-bless no-bless that people that people are born as noble people and now precisely with capitalism with equivalency there is no absolutely no way to show a possible evaluation I am absolutely sure that maybe through two or three centuries, I know it's very long because those things are going very slowly but through two or three centuries some mutation of this kind will happen since it is not possible in another way and then you will ask to me I know, well, do you have a mean to grasp a new kind of evaluation and first of course I will answer no because it is it is not predictable what will come will come this is not fatalism it is just that it is it is the law of time that the future is not predictable in French it is possible to have two names one is the future the other is avenir avenir is like what is to come to come but in French you have the verb venir and we have the name lavenir but the name is made with the verb and future is not made with the verb future on the contrary is a a mode of the verb of the noun then the future one could say future is a projection of what will be and what will be is is considered as real you know and sometimes it's true when the people say I don't know 50 years ago we will have a train going this at 2 to 150 km per hour yes it's ok it will come in like today some people say we will have optical computer which will be I don't know how many times stronger than our computer suddenly suddenly that will happen the question is that with an optical computer I think we will not know better what is the purpose of such rapidity and the avenir avenir is something quite different at least to come then avenir is something we can experience every day I don't know what will happen in one hour and you don't know maybe maybe I don't know but very simple I don't know what will happen if I go now out on the street maybe I will encounter somebody which I never expected to meet then avenir is coming coming and coming is coming is still coming I would say like it is why for example in English the sexual meaning of to come is a very interesting one because in French we have partly the same with avenir we I come in Blanchot you have a repetition of the which Derrida has commented but I don't remember where it is interesting because precisely we think spontaneously that to come means to come to an end but precisely not or precisely as well in a sexual meaning as in mystical one I would say to come has no end to come comes of course of course there is an end but there is an end but the end does not belong to the coming the end is more than there is a limit then comes the question of the limit and of death if you want well so this could be my first answer that is it is not predictable but second I would like to nevertheless to make a kind of prediction and but it is not a new prediction I think this prediction has already be done I think it was André Malreau who said the 21 century will be spiritual or nothing something like that of course this is very big who's if we think what a new religion no but I think or I don't know even Nietzsche even Nietzsche says not only that God is dead but he said that which new God we will be able to invent or something like that of course God is by itself a dangerous idea an idea of power domination but maybe maybe it could be something else which needs something else than any kind of God for example Heidegger Heidegger spoke about the last God as the God who or who's the entire divinity is in making a sign making a sign with a German word which is not translatable Wink Winken in German is to make a little sign so no like the children say Wink maybe Wink are you say Wink in English but I'm not sure the meaning exactly the same as German but there is a Wink signing or signalling signalling something of course it can't be it can't have a meaning but it can't be on the border of meaning if I make a sign with my eye if I do that you understand something but you don't know exactly what it can't be a sign of seduction or complicity you will see well but the Wink the German Wink and mainly as a sign of children Winker Winker the Winker Winker the very little baby who says to the grandmother Winker Winker bye bye but it's not bye bye well Heidegger says the divinity of the last code is only to Wink because there is a verb Winken make a Wink a sign to ward after that Heidegger has all those things to say ok then well the last word I could say about that would be to say that if there is a if there is a mutation to come a mutation with a kind of Wink to ward I don't know why it could be it seems to me it could be certainly only in the direction of precisely the absence of God and the absence of any kind of goal of final end because what is very interesting is to see that our contemporary crisis is a crisis of humanity which was supposed to have an end a total man was the word of Marx or a achieved society with a total mastering of the entire world everything is going away we have every day we learn that now there is the pandemic is like the return of something very old something like the plague in the middle age or the renaissance but precisely it happens that is because the modern condition of life and globalization of life makes possible this pandemic it has been already partly the case with AIDS but AIDS was and is still is more limited in the condition of communication and now we have a virus which is as well limited but while then yes we are in a period where it is not possible that it will not change and it is the same if you want about politics see today the question is not to be more what socialist of course of course it makes sense to have friends I think it is more interesting to have some socialist way of thinking or socio-democratry but who is going this way now Emmanuel Macron himself he cannot do another way but of course it is not the same in all countries and maybe partly Macron say but even if we forget the only word socialism the word state and the job of the state is today in Europe at least in a condition that was absolutely non-predicted two years ago what does that mean I would say that means nothing about the state it means something about the necessity of making many things together because we are together, we live together we interact together all the time and then so we need to think again we need to think about state it is very strange now in France we are doing many things which in fact are exactly like nationalization but they don't have this name but I don't know how many thousands, millions of people come to everything but from where they come they come or they will come from the money of everybody of course there is still a question about the tax of the most people but even that will be in a way forced to be changed then what politics means today is in a certain extent nothing but the necessity to manage with everything that we produce of course there is a big difference between a government like this one of terms, this one of Bolsonaro this one of Modi etc this one of Macron etc all together those differences are not very important the important thing is that the world politics today becomes like a large open and empty world and everybody says politics, political reaction I know I was myself that's almost 50, 40 years ago 30 years ago I used the world, the political which this time in the 70s it was for us it was like something really new that is the essence of politics not the bad politician activity as we say in French there is an expression which is very comic politician the politician say again political politics the politicians but it is bad politics it is the politics of interest corruption, calculation etc but but it is very strange because if I would speak about like in a cuisine the bad cooking would be the cooking cooking or the professionalized cooking basically ah but precisely what we understand by cooking should not be professional should be what we are able to do with this I don't speak for me because I am absolutely unable cooking is this is a kind of art well politics as well politics was an art but this is totally forgotten but then to speak about the politician means that there is a problem with politics but I think that the non-politician politics has today when it is used in many many discussions it has a meaning I would say more or less of theology politics mean global understanding of the life and common life etc ah precisely I think if the politics is art to manage society and then I would say it has to do with the fact that the society itself is not everything that we have a life through society but beyond society this is certainly in a way what Marx thought with individual property that is what one is properly proper the proper the proper which precisely is never proper who are you proper you are not even Irene and I am not even Jean-Luc and I think that what is interesting today with all the crises is that precisely we are on the border what are we doing with the question just to come back to your beautiful description of the the Vincere the sign I think it was also Artó who said to signal through flames, if we come to theater what are the signs what are the signals we should give or just precisely because I think theater is a place for signing. What the actor make on the screen is not representing something. It is much more giving some sign and a lot of sign because this sign of color, of matter, of sound, of gesture, of the kind of presence. What is an actor? What is a great actor? In a way, I would say a great actor is somebody who becomes nearly himself or herself a sign. This is why at the age of these actors, we did have some idols of the theater and of the cinema. But of course it can fall on the side of idolatry. But there is some reason for the possibility of idolatry that some people are able to make sign by their presence. This is a matter of presence and of communication of presence. What Arthur means with theater and the plague is precisely that the plague is for him finally for Arthur. The plague is not a physical disease. It is mainly communication and contagion. If he speaks of theater as a plague, that is because theater communicates, has to communicate something out of the mere understanding. Then in this extent, I could say this is not by chance that today there are at least with what I can see in Europe and I don't see many things. But there are two phenomena together. One is that the theater is a little fatigued. This is strange because in our theater what do we see?  Of course there are more contemporary writers. But for my feeling there is still with the theater a disease with the representation, the scene in front of the spectator etc. But on the other side, now more and more attempt to create new form of theater and way of making theater out of the theater. And I am not alone to say that it is a French theater but I don't remember now its name. He wrote an article two months ago about the crisis. And he said we should think about everything about the public help to the theater and to make possible, for example, much more things of theater on the street etc. There is, I think there is a need today to attempt to feel a certain quality which maybe is no longer present in the theater as institution. But this theatricality is precisely what belongs to life. And this is one aspect of what Akhto I think understood very well because it belongs to life to come out. A baby is an actor, become an actor, an ordinary baby. The place he understood the address to the other. And like for example, because today the cinema is so important and I remark that because today we are absolutely tired with the cinema of Hollywood and not only the blockbuster but I don't know, I am very tired with the film Policier. Detective film, detective film maybe? No, the Policier films, the stories of all gangsters, corruption, the guy who was in prison and out of prison and all that. All of the narratives, you understand the narratives of Hollywood. Maybe your wife, maybe it goes until the narrative itself. And it has to do with what happens in literature maybe. But on another side, I think there are today some films attempting to do in another way with the narrative. I've seen a film of a filmmaker I didn't know before, Philippe Ramos, a film where there is no one story. And the major part of the film is made of this image, fix. Still images. One after the other. Even like if you analyze an image, you know the act of that. And there are in the same film, you have I don't know, maybe six or seven not stories. But people character. And each time it is another approach. And then you are like invited to think if there is a link between or maybe not. So things like that or I don't know I've seen another film that's much too much complicated to explain. Well, I have the feeling that what happens there is precisely that the film itself is looking for what I would call its own theater. That is how it comes in presence, you know, because even see what is what is special to the cinema I would say is what is special to the cinema is that with the cinema you can't zoom. And you cannot zoom as a theater.  Close up, which is a title of the film. So what happens with that? I think the cinema is much more there than in the lateral movement. The car or the horses or the going fast. Then in the theater it's different because it is not a matter of closeness. Or there is a different closeness, which is the difference of the feeling of the presence of the actual. But in a way or in another, all the time what is at stake is not to show something, not to give something to understand, but to make possible, well, I would say certain kind of touching or certain kind of presence in the meaning in which presence in Latin doesn't mean to be there, but to be in front of or to be beside of presence and not absence. Do you feel, if we talk about theater as an appearance on a stage of science, should it be in this world? Is it a political action? Or should it be point to outside the world? The time we live in now, let's say America, the unrest we have here at the moment, the demonstrations, what art do we need and what art works? No, not an artist. The artist can answer. I don't know. Artists have to try. What could I say is for me a contemporary work of art. In any case, the possibility of coming, I would say, to a certain liberation of meaning, that the matter is not to think something, not to understand something. Not to comment something. I would say the contrary to philosophy. If you go to listen to a philosophical talk or course in the university, so you want to understand something and think about it. But in a way, the presence of the professor is not that important. I don't say it is absolutely not important. No. Because now starts the discussion about the virtual teaching. But I don't know because I have an example on the theater. But in France, there is a theater maker, François Tanguy, whose theater is named Le Radot. Le Radot. Le Radot is a raft, I think. A lifeboat? Yes, Le Radot. Le Radot is a little way to say, yes, for me, the scene is Le Radot. I am there on the ocean. Well, all the spectacles of François Tanguy and of the theater of Le Radot are almost all without any clear narrative. There is something with that. And mainly about the places on the scene, changing the placing, going up and down, and I don't know, or suddenly putting something in front of the spectator. So it's very impossible to describe. And when it goes on talk, when actors are delivering some talk, it's not very much and not all the time possible to well understand. So what is interesting there? What is interesting is precisely to be, I would say to be invited to a space which is working as the space it is. It is a peculiar rule and habits and forms of this space. Well, but it is not worth to describe an invisible thing. Maybe it seems to look like some theater of object. I know it was practiced in Germany, but I've never seen really. Well, anyway, the question is that we enter space and we are going through space, even if we stay at our place. Where, maybe we get a certain sense of the theater we are. If the actor makes me feel not as another actor playing with them, but as being with anyway, and not only a spectator. Well, I think that all the criticism about the spectacle, the criticism of the situation is true even if the situation is way it is already gone. Yes, maybe we could, maybe we could say that, you know. I think the people of the majority of the other culture or civilization of the world have been or are still now people living their lives and being in their space and time. And maybe we are the first not to be exactly in our space and time. We are all the time projected, for example, out of time because in the future, not in the coming, but in the future, what will happen? Or all the time out of our place, so with the need to travel, to go there. If we think seriously about tourism, tourism, why the mass tourism is a problem. Of course, there are techno-ecological, economical problems, you know. And the tourists are destroying Venice, for example, but that's not the main problem. The problem of the tourism is that in a way we are all tourists because we need to go everywhere to see to what, to what. Of course, I understand how interesting and rich it is, it can be to travel, to visit. The question is precisely about the visit, you know, the visit. What means to visit a place? In my life, I was very frequently, maybe in the Frapi. Touched. Yeah, touched. Very touched. But more than touched, Frapi, shaken or... Very shake, shake, we shake. By the fact that... But I don't know what I wanted to say. About tourism, you were saying what is the visit? Yes, I was shaken by the fact that when I was somewhere to do something, for example, when, a long time ago, when I did go to America, for example, to California, to teach for two months, three months on SELISA. Then I started to have a life there, to know the people to... But when I go just to see a city, like it is said in French, we say fair.  Sienne, Florence, Venise, j'ai fait. I did, I did that. Which is terrible. It is almost like je me suis fait, je me suis tapé. J'ai avalé, avalé Florence. And all that, there is nothing there. So, today I would say I want to go out today. For me, traveling is too tiring. But I prefer to go only in one place and to stay there and to do something. To do something in the place and not to come, visit, to look what is to see. Ah, this is the Taj Mahal and this is the Grand Canyon and etc. So, in the tourism, in the tourism there is, there is maybe we could say a scopic drive to speak with Freud, you know. A scopic drive and precisely a scopic drive is something else than the inhabitation taking part of, and maybe it is not possible to, of course, to live and just to be in every part of the world. In this meaning, I would say one can understand if people are claiming for the proper place, the nation, etc.  But precisely as we know, all those words and mainly the word nation did become a closed word, an empty word at the same time. But when it goes about a nation which is not able to be the nation it is or it claims to be like Palestinian, or, I don't know, maybe we or many, many other people around the world, then yes, what is at stake here is that it is needed to inhabit somewhere or to have to use the German word Heimat, I don't know if you use the word Heimat, has been a very terrible German word because he was used by the Nazi, you know, and since Romantic times Heimat. But there is a Belgian resistance who did go to the camp, but he comes back and he wrote a book after, I don't remember the title of the book, there is a chapter, how much Heimat we need, because he said the camp is the absolute contrary to any Heimat. Then, when we go to the camp, we need a Heimat. But if the Heimat is closed, you know, family, national circle, etc., then so we know. Yeah, I like that very much that you compare, you know, theatre in a way to travel as tourists or not, but to stay, to be engaged, to inhabit a space and not just come and go but to be touched, to feel the, to resonate with this place you are in. And do you feel in the times of confinement when you were, could you travel and your thought, did you feel your liberties were limited or how did you experience this time? Today is the first time after three months you went to a bakery, so how did you experience that time of limited liberties and thinking? I didn't experience that as a limit of liberty. I think that, as I said before, four people living in small houses and with many people in a small room, no, it has been a real problem. But what was said about the liberties, by many people living like me in an apartment, large enough, etc., that I don't understand, or I understand better, that it is really a false understanding of liberty. Because first, if freedom is something, so if freedom has a meaning, it is not the freedom to do what I want. Because I, who is that? To be I, I should be one I first, and how to be one I, if not every day, all the time by talking to other I and understanding the you with the I and the we, etc., first. And though I want, what is my want? What is my desire? What is my will? I can want a lot of things. Of course, if, I don't know, if you would tell me, I don't know, would you like to have a big and strong car to, why not? Would you like to travel to, I spoke of the Taj Mahal before, I was never there, I was never in India. And because of my health condition, since 70 years, I am, I cannot go to India nor to Africa. And especially with Africa, and for India, it is painful for me. I have a great, I like to see African fields, because I have a feeling I was once in the Burkina Faso, but only once for three weeks. That's not the image. So, if you would offer Aldo to me, I would say, yes, of course, but that makes me with makes no sense. First, to give me that, you would need to, to make me in a better medical condition so that I can go to Africa. I cannot. Well, then, no, but all our life is taken in very precise limits. I am born there, there, this time in those conditions. And then I, it happened that and that and that. All my life is made from a lot of meeting and counter unpredictable asardos, etc. And then it makes an entire life. And an entire life is never entire. But then where, where is the freedom there? The freedom is, I would say the freedom is to be able at each moment to be still in the and moving toward, toward myself. But myself will never come. But to, but just as to go and until the point where, where I die, but to die means, means that there is nothing else to do. That is something to do, to die. If possible, to die is to do something. Even, even if it is a passive doing. But, but of course, if you die, because you are taken by a policeman, you do not, you do not. And the death is given to you or is imposed to you. It's not yours. But, but I think that there are much more people, even religious people who understand that dying is not losing the chance to live more. But coming to the point where there is nothing more to do. Learning that there is no more. That is what, what I cannot understand when, when, you know, tons, too many people are talking about living, I don't know, 200, 300 years, and what more, and what more. Of course, I would like to be living in 200 years to see what happens, would like. But if I like that so much, then I have to, to die right now. But to find the, the mean to be resurrected in 200 years. Another thing, maybe since we're coming closer also to the end of the talk, you wrote about, you wrote a lot about also about tragedy. Do you think we live in that it's a tragic time we live in? Yes. Maybe, maybe we are living in the time we can rediscover tragedy. What means tragedy? Precisely, it is possible that tragedy, I mean, Greek tragedy means the possibility of coming to, to, to death with an understanding of its necessity, which means another understanding of this world. This world, necessity.  But he understand that it is, how to say is fate. What, what, what means a fate? What means a fate? The destiny. The destiny. That is a question of the destiny. The destiny, the destiny to, to destinate is to, to send somebody somewhere, you know, or by which, by whom are we dest, destinate, destine, I don't know. For example, we destined by which, so our destiny is, is everything, everything, my parents were and when and how was I born and what was at stake, et cetera, et cetera. That's, that makes sense. In, in which people with which language, et cetera, et cetera. That is certain, certainly that is destination. But the destination is not necessarily destination to a certain point. But maybe it is a destination to be destinated. David, I invented, invented the world, which, like any invented, the world is, is weak because it is invented. But the destination, that is destiny and errant, errant, how do you translate? To error, to error, to move without knowing a goal. Errant, errant, errant in English also. Oh, you could even say destination in English, almost. So it is, it is a nice word. Again, despite the fact that if it is not a word of the language, it is not. But, or, or maybe, maybe we could try without using another word, just to say how, how do we have to understand our destiny? And now I think for, for, for, for a long time and for maybe all other culture, it was in a way clear, I have the destiny to be, to be that. And I don't discuss about that, but it can be, it can be a noble destiny or, or a very poor and humble destiny. But now precisely, how, what we made ourselves with, with humanity, that is, in a way it is the other side of the general equivalence. We are all equal. We, we, we know that, we know that we have all the same absolute value. And then our destinies are, our destinies are all equal and absolute. But, but if some people are using the destiny of the other people to, to subordinate their destiny to themselves, then that is a, we should involve, involve, how do you say, volley. Of destiny. Of the destiny. Yeah, no, no. So really, thank you and and I think your thoughts about, you know, that value of life and, and the evaluation of it that we are recalibrating it that the future century might be a century where spiritual questions will come up and we are in a destination on a way where we will be full of errands, but also to error. And we will be wandering around, I think this is a something that is worth the life and work of an artist, of course, is close and and also that there is no center or no sense. There is no form that can give form to a truth that we, we have to have to find it, but we should be touched or we should resonate that we create, as you say, the space in Cedar that we inhabit space that connects us, gives us a feel of a haimat of a home or of a belonging that this is something that these artists keep in mind as a final. It's a question or final as a statement as we do ask young artists who also are listening to our talks or artists in general. What is the meaning of the Corona time now? What do you feel is important to keep in mind and how to use it best and what advice do you have? You know, I am thinking to the poem of Paul Tselam with the title Corona, meaning the crown. And in this, but I don't know the poem, but I remember just that, the end of the poem is, it is time, it is time that stone agree to flourish. It's called fleurir. Fleurir. No, fleurir, the verb, fleurir. La fleur fleurie. The flower. It exists in English. No, it is a verb. So it is time that the stone agree to flower, to become a flower. Yeah, that is true in Heine Müller, the great German writer, would write about the flowering or the imprints of flowering concrete. You know, you would see that even concrete flowers over time, you know, exposed to it and that this is a hope. We all have a dear Jean-Luc, really thank you for taking time, precious time, also a lot of time. And I wish we would have each day a conversation and that way I think it is full of inspiration and thought and also in the kind of archipelagos, islands of thoughts that connect itself to a bigger landscape actually. So it is important to hear a philosophical point of view and also that we don't know. As you said, Labanier, we do not know. We can make predictions, but we do not know, you don't know and we don't know, but we have to find a way to create meaning, inhabit a space and create some sense of a belonging of a community and some kind of a solidarity and this experience of isolation of loneliness, which perhaps for you is a way of living all your life. And I know a lot of your writing was done in the time of your heart transplant. Not so much in religion. Yeah, and your heart transplant or your can't fight with cancer, you know, where you were freely still you could still think the free thinking that is out there that we have now. So thank you for, for joining us and I think we might have even better questions, best questions now and it is an important contribution and I think also for us in the world of theater and performance, that it is for you important to take time and talk to us and it gives us also meaning in our work. Tomorrow we have a New York director of a team poll who will talk about her work and her life and her experiences as a black young director woman and her dreams her ideas about how to create an inhabit a space or create a primate a belonging for herself but also for for audiences and then on Friday would he King junior for 50 years when a black American theater, and he will tell us what it meant for him and and his journey but again Jean looks thank you so much and I hope we will also continue to hear voices from a philosopher's anthropologist or sociologist I think we need to reach out that we have to get out of our our smaller worlds where we are in and step outside the world we know and art does that but I think also philosophy in some way philosophy perhaps also is close to it because it tries to step out of the moment out of the world we know and find truth or find an answer and and searching for for for truth and as you said art is now create something that you can see it's a you know the opposite of philosophy we talk about things with language but the artists create something final a statue, but at the end gods are statues we look at now and but they are images and they are powerful ones thank you very very much and Irene thank you for being with us for being here and thank you to our presents and and would like to thank you both and thanks to howl round for for hosting us to Travis and see a and and VJ to my C team Andy and San Yang and to to everybody hope you will be able to join in tomorrow I get on hold on here at Emerson College and these are conversations that come out of the time of corona we should have many many more of them and and show that the individual experience we have is an individual one and there's a collective one, but it is so vastly different but all together it's perhaps creates a body, it's a community or commune virus as as Jean Luc created that term so thank you very much and much and thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. I need to say hello to her name. We will call you now to say hello. Yeah.


Today we're in chapter one. I am going to look at verses five through ten here in First Thessalonians. Let's read beginning at verse five. We'll read to verse ten and prayerfully I will get to verse ten. I'm not sure that I will. For our gospel did not come to you in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake and you became followers of us and of the Lord having received the word in much affliction with joy of the Holy Spirit so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth not only in Macedonia and Achaia but also in every place your faith toward God has gone out so that we do not need to say anything for they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you and how you turn to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to wait for his son from heaven whom he raised from the dead even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. Now as we begin let me lay a foundation we're going to be looking at the power of the gospel obviously when we have opportunity to take time to look at a New Testament book especially we have opportunity to see how God works and how God works through his spirit and by his word and all but I want to lay a foundation so we can see some things this evening as it relates to the sharing of our faith. I want you to know notice even as we begin how Paul refers to the gospel in verse five as our gospel notice that with me he begins in verse five by saying for our gospel did not come to you in word only our gospel. Now the word gospel is used some 55 times in the New Testament and in the New Testament it is a word that is used especially of what we call the glad tidings the glad tidings of the coming kingdom of God. It speaks concerning the salvation that is obtained through Jesus Christ and it also speaks concerning those things that pertain to salvation this word gospel. Gospel message the message of joy the great news God has done something for us through Jesus Christ a message that speaks of how to be saved and what happens once you are saved it's all found within what is called the gospel but when Paul is speaking here notice again in verse five notice how he says our gospel one would have to ask the question what do you mean what do you mean when you refer to the gospel as our gospel you see there are those who would say that the Apostle Paul was the was actually the one who originated this message they would say that Paul is actually claiming to be the originator of this message called the gospel but that's not what Paul is speaking about at all he's not saying that the gospel originated with him because Paul is the one who communicated to us that this gospel message originates with God himself it isn't a message that was created and invented by Paul or any other man this message called the gospel is a message that God has given to us it is a message God has communicated to us and Paul would know ways say that he was the originator of this message of salvation as a matter of fact in the book of Galatians in chapter one verses 11 and 12 he said this he said I make known to your brethren that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man for I neither received it from man nor was I taught it but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ so Paul is speaking about this message called the gospel but it's not saying that it originated with him by calling it our gospel he's simply making it clear that it is not of human origin the gospel is a message of God saving grace a message of saving grace that is made available to us through faith in Jesus Christ and it's a message that not all people willingly necessarily receive as a matter of fact he would tell the Corinthians in first Corinthians 118 the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing but to us who are being saved it's the power of God so there is a common response that many have for this gospel message and that is to reject it because it makes no sense to them so Paul is saying this is a message of salvation and he would also include in other letters that there are those who had rejected but this message did not originate with him it wasn't created by man so why referring to this gospel as our gospel he's simply making it very clear that he also partook in its blessings the gospel is good news to all sinners and Paul included himself in sinful humanity he didn't accept himself he didn't exempt himself from it he's basically saying our gospel is a message that first came to me that I'm a sinner in need of God saving grace that God did a work in my life to transform me and he did this through the gospel the gospel of Jesus Christ when he was writing to Timothy in 1st Timothy 1 15 he said this is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom he said I am chief so he was an individual who with humility knew that he needed to partake in the salvation and blessings offered to him by God through Jesus Christ in this message of the gospel he was saved by the same message that he was declaring to other people so we partake in salvation we receive that which we have received that is what we give we have received this message of the gospel by faith we have said yes Lord forgive me a sinner and God has God changed my life transform me from the inside God has and so as those who have partaken in the water of life we have the ability to communicate this same message to other people like he said in 2nd Corinthians chapter 4 verse 1 since we have this ministry as we have received minister as we have received mercy we do not lose heart we received mercy ourselves and it's the mercy that we've received that causes us to have humility of heart and mind to be able to give this same message to other people this partaking in a gospel message obviously it's been very important to me first as a Christian and as one who serves the Lord in in ministry and as a pastor I remember that I'm a sinner saved by grace I also know that I'm a member of the church that I pastor and when you bring the word from that vantage it actually helps you to have something that is necessary if you're going to communicate this word properly and that would be humility because you cannot have this attitude of that I've seen in the past of looking at somebody else and even looking down on them and and wondering out loud how can you be the way that you are how can you do the things that you do because the things that others have done we've done and sometimes we've done even worse we have our testimonies don't we we have the testimony that we proclaim openly and in public and many people know our testimony and then we have the real one the one that we don't share with anybody else the elements of that testimony that are never opened publicly to anybody else so we would not want anybody else to know we wouldn't want them to know what we really have been what we really have done so we share the things that we think are enough for people to understand that God has incredible grace but we experience the depth of his grace because we know exactly what we are and because we know what we've been and what we've done and we don't forget those things it produces within us a sense of gratitude and it auto awaken in us a sense of humility because but people have done we have done ourselves and sometimes we've done even worse so Paul said I am the chief of sinners he understood the magnitude of God's grace and it was from that vantage point that he would share the love and the mercy and the goodness of God with other people now as somebody who is paid partake in this ministry of the gospel I want you to notice how he says here in verse 5 concerning our gospel notice how he said our gospel did not come to you in word only but also in power our gospel did not come to you that's the second thing I want to point out here the gospel of Jesus Christ is a message that is taken out the gospel of Jesus Christ is not meant to remain in a church pew it's meant to be taken to the world the message of the gospel is intended to be taken and proclaimed to be lived out and given to others when the Lord was speaking on one occasion to a lawyer who approached him and the lawyer said what is the great commandment of the law Jesus said you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind you said this is the first and the greatest commandment but there's a second like unto it and you shall love your neighbor as yourself on these two commandments he said hang all the law and the prophets what is the great commandment love God with all of your heart but how do I know that I'm loving God with all of my heart well if you love God whom you have not seen you will also love your brother whom you have seen so your faith is going to be demonstrated not just by you giving and and by you praying and by you fasting and by you doing all the liturgically correct things the religiously right things but your true faith is going to be demonstrated by the love you have for other people by the concern you have for other people's well-being by that sense of devotion to ministering to them and helping them especially as they have times of need and so a love is what motivates us to care for other people now if I really love a person if I really love a person then I'm going to be honest with them and I'm going to share with them and I'm going to be open about what would be best for them in their life and what would be best for them in their life would be a faith in Jesus Christ we live in a society that's very open about the things that we love aren't we I was driving here just the other day and as I was driving to church I saw a young man driving past me with his pickup truck and his Lakers flag as it was just you know in the breeze he's going to have to take that flag down pretty soon and use it to wash his windows but I was but he's pretty open about it this guy loves the Lakers and that's that's okay with me can love the Dodgers you can even love the Angels better not love SC but you can love a lot of a lot of things and you do so openly and you do so openly and and our friends know that if you enjoy a restaurant if you really enjoy a restaurant you probably will let your friends know about it you probably will if you like a coffee shop you'll say you ought to try drip over here it's pretty good or you'll say you ought to go to this place here it's pretty good that's what friends do right we we invite friends to go to places and enjoy the things that we like and we're real open to that and why would I tell my friends that well because I've enjoyed something and I want them to enjoy it along with me I want them to have the same pleasure that I have and and when I got saved I have to be honest with you that's just something that transferred into my life I want you to know about Jesus Christ I want you to know what God has done I want you to be aware of the fact that God can do a work in your life it was something very normal something very natural it was something that was obviously fairly easy you just tell people what God has done in your life you just share this is what God's all about and you invite them to enjoy Jesus Christ like was earlier mentioned like Matthew the tax-gatherer who gets saved and the first thing he does is he invites people over to his home he gives him a meal invites Jesus and turns Jesus loose on them to share of his love and his goodness but that's what you do you just become an inviter you just become an individual who's open with what God has done and a willingness to share that's the heart of the movement that I came out of a movement that today people who write concerning trends in the church called the Jesus movement that's the movement I came out of that's my DNA that's my heritage coming out of the hippie lifestyle living counter culturally coming to faith in Jesus Christ being willing to be rejected because hippies were not liked by everybody and yet saying that Jesus Christ is worth being rejected for if I will be rejected counting the cost and beginning to share but that was just part of our DNA that was what God called us to do we were encouraged to to take this message of Christ to live it and to give it to share it with other people to let them know how good God is and what God can do in a person's life and to be willing to say this is where I was at but this is where I've been brought by Jesus Christ to be willing to do that that's in our DNA we have been commanded to share our faith with other people in Matthew 28 19 and 20 Jesus had go there for make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you and though I'm with you always even to the end of the age so as new believers we share that God saved us we became living lights to those who are living in darkness like it says in Matthew 416 the people who sat in darkness saw great light and upon those who sat in region and shadow of death light is dawned we were the individuals who were seated there in a region of death and darkness but the light shown upon us the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ and what made that moment in history so revolutionary is we did basically what John Wesley once said when John Wesley said catch on fire and others will love to come watch you burn and that's what happened we were on fire for the Lord Jesus Christ and it drove us to take the chance to share our new faith with everybody that we loved and the day I was saved I shared with my sister Madeline what the Lord had done in my life December 27th 1970 and I shared with her this is what God has done and that same day as you all know my sister Madeline went to bed that night put her head on a pillow and said whatever you did to my brother Jesus I want you to do that for me and that's how she got saved it was just a natural outpouring within three weeks because I'd been taught you need to read the Bible I began to read through the New Testament I got to the book of Revelation chapter 9 and I started reading about men with women's hair and iron teeth and scorpion stings and wanting to die and and it freaked me out so I went into the kitchen where mom and dad were and they were seated there at the kitchen table as they normally did they would sit and they would visit and I walked in and held the Bible I said mom dad this is the word of God listen to what God has to say and I read Revelation 9 and then I gave my first real Bible study I said I don't know what this means but I do know this it's not speaking to me it's speaking to you and I said to my dad I said dad you're a good man you are the best man I will ever know but you will be the best man in hell if you don't give your heart to Jesus Christ daddy I love you and I don't want to go to heaven without you bow your head and pray you're gonna receive Christ as your savior right now and you all know the story my dad and my mom both bowed their heads and gave their hearts to Jesus Christ now what motivated me to go and speak to my father in such a way I was raised in a way that you respect your father you never speak strongly to him you most certainly don't address sins that he may have what is it that drove me to do that the love of Jesus Christ constrains you the desire to see them saved motivates you and you share from the abundance of your heart the love of Christ with them that's how they got saved my brother Frank have an ugly brother named Frankie my brother Frank got saved three and a half years later in August of 1974 and because he didn't have a church Bible study that he could go to I began to drive out to Ontario from Norwalk and I would come and I would teach my brother Frankie the Gospel of Matthew and as I began to share with him beginning in September of 1974 he began to invite friends one of the friends that he invited did this home Bible study was a young woman named Marie Lopez and when Marie showed up some idiot called her on the phone some guy he's not alive anymore I made sure to that but he called and I heard her giggling on the phone and I didn't know this girl from Adam or Eve she came and sat down started whispering to her friend her roommate she's all excited and from out of nowhere a thought entered my mind and that was I'm gonna make her giggle about me someday I didn't even know this girl turns out after the Bible study she wasn't saved I sat down she comes to talk to me she was going to college she asked me a question she says what's your sign that was the big icebreaker back then you guys for you for you young people that was the icebreaker and I said the fish and she goes oh you're a Pisces I said no the ick thutes I said I don't go for that astrology nonsense I'm a believer in Jesus Christ two weeks later Marie gave her heart to Jesus Christ the ministry of my sister Madeline who is my first convert to faith in Christ and Marie as everybody knows needed to be discipled so I dated her and married her very quickly didn't want that one to get away she became a girlfriend and then she became my wife in 1998 my youngest sister Rebecca well after being in bondage to lesbianism for 28 years my sister Rebecca gave her heart to Jesus Christ at an invitation I gave on an Easter Sunday here in this church love people enough to tell them the truth tell them the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ if Jesus has been good to you can't he be good to somebody else too it's been said that the most selfish person on the face of the earth is the one who goes to heaven alone what God has called us to do is to give this good news out to other people and to share with them you say you see today people speak of this Jesus movement as if it's a footnote in church history as if this Jesus movement has passed but this movement hasn't passed in 1970 there was only one Calvary Chapel today there are over 1500 Calvary chapels God is still moving do you know that since January to this month since January to now in April we have seen 296 people answer invitations at the in this church almost 300 people have given their faith to Jesus Christ in the last few months we see that happen the movement of the spirit continues some of the Calvary Chapel ministries are the largest in the nation God has done a work and God wants to continue to do the work God wants to do that work through us God wants to do that work through you every one of us has friends and family co-workers and neighbors who need to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ all we need to do is just ask the Lord to give us opportunity fill us with his spirit and give him opportunity to work through us now he says our gospel did not come to you continuing in word only the gospel is not a compilation of thoughts it's not simply personal testimonies and experience and it's certainly not simply a religious ritual that we bring people into bondage to he's saying it's God's word it didn't come to you in word only and we gave you this word with conviction Oswald chambers once said we must never confuse our desire for people to accept the gospel with creating a gospel that is acceptable to people so he says we brought a message to you that was not tainted by human wisdom and human invention the the the word of God is like a lion that you let out of the cage you let the word do what the word of God can do and that's why he said to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 2 4 and 5 my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom but in demonstration of the spirit and of power that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God so we gave you the gospel without compromise without alteration and the reason we did so is because it is God's word and when embraced by faith and acted upon it enables change to occur within us these people became Christians they were receptive to the message of the gospel and this gospel came in power the works of the spirit through the miracles and all that were taking place just validated the power of this message but the gospel came he says in the work of the Holy Spirit people were touched by the conviction of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit comes to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment if I can talk somebody into accepting Christ somebody else can talk them out of walking with Christ but when the Holy Spirit does his work of conviction when the Holy Spirit grabs you from the inside and there's this an aware this awareness that this is the Lord God who's touching me right now well that's the work of the spirit of God the message of the gospel appeals to people and it causes them from the inside to desire change the Holy Spirit brings conviction upon people who are held in spiritual bondage and that's why we continue to communicate the simple message of the gospel because the gospel when received will transform a life now he says this gospel came in much assurance this speaks of a confidence in which he presented the gospel to them he didn't give them the impression that there was another way to God I don't come up here in this pulp and say to you I really think that Jesus Christ is really great but you know if you want to go with Buddha or or Confucius or Muhammad or whatever that's up to you we don't believe that at all do we we believe that there is one way to God and that's Jesus Christ there's one message that God ever gave to us called the gospel of Jesus Christ we're not ashamed of the gospel it's the power of God into salvation and so we present the gospel as it is why because it's a power of the gospel that will change you and so we speak it with confidence the only reason people don't speak it with confidence is one is they may not be they have may not have experienced how God comes to the rescue when they're trying to to present him to others and so their tongue tied and a little afraid they don't know what to say they don't open their mouth because they're afraid they're going to make a mistake and therefore they remain silent because the enemy basically through the culture and and through spiritual kinds of things can can encourage them to to be quiet to shut up to not say anything because you don't want to offend I just didn't have that problem I just really believed and still do quite obviously that this message needs to be embraced God says it in his word nor is there salvation in any other for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved the name of Jesus Christ so we speak confidently because we know and believe this message we speak confidently because we've experienced the salvation and the freedom that comes to relationship with Christ you speak confidently because we've seen God do that same work in other people transforms you gives you strength he's with you even your darkest hour Paul for example and Silas are preaching a message demon possessed soothsayer begins to follow them in the city of Philippi begins to basically be Satan's publicity agent these men bring the way of salvation listen to them Paul greatly annoyed turns and says to the demon within this woman come out of her well she had brought great profit to those who had utilized her quote unquote services and they got upset they said that Paul was creating a disturbance in the city and Paul and Silas end up being put in a jail cell first they're beaten then they're put in the stocks the bible tells us at midnight they were singing praises to God and as this has taken place a Philippian jailer is there scripture tells us that he began the conversation with Paul and he asked the question sirs how can I be saved you have something that I don't have in the midst of your trial in the midst of your pain in the midst of your suffering you have something that causes you to sing in a jail cell and that Philippian jailer knew that he was in a greater cell than Paul and Silas because though their freedom had been taken away from them their liberty in Christ hadn't been and though they were unable to move at that moment to be where they wanted to they were in the exact right place and therefore they had joy and were capable of sharing from that position of what God can do in somebody's life and this jailer had the freedom to leave and to come as he will saw a difference between them and himself and that's why he says to them what must I do to be saved and the answer coming from Paul very basic and very simple give as much money as you can no pray as long as you can no crawl on broken glass no believe in the Lord Jesus Christ you shall be saved in your household and that man gave his heart to Christ they brought the message to the family they received the Lord Jesus Christ God has a way of working by his message in our lives to not just save us but be conduits of his grace to other people that's how God works you see now in verse six he says you became followers of us and of the Lord having received the word in much affliction with joy of the Holy Spirit so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Ikea who believe for from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth not only in Macedonia and Ikea but also in every place your faith toward God has gone out so that we do not need to say anything for they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you and how you turn to God from idols to serve the living and true God and to wait for his son from heaven whom he raised from the dead even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come and so you became followers of us and of the Lord they recognize Paul's message they recognize his manner of life and it was worth imitating even like he had said to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 11 1 imitate me just as I also imitate Christ and yet following Jesus exacts great price they were persecuted they had turned back from idols were believers in the living God but even though they went through these things they became examples to others and they saw the truth and veracity of the message we had a man come and share with us one time here in this fellowship spend many years now most if not almost all of you were not here some of you were when this took place his name is Moses Paulus he's from India and he came and he shared with us and all and I had met him when I was on a ministry trip in India many years ago now Moses Paulus he really convicted the women I'll never forget that because of a story he gave he shared how that his wife her birthday was approaching and Moses had approached his wife and said to her honey what would you like for your birthday and her answer was a bull horn so that she could stand on street corners there in the city that they lived in in India and preach the gospel well when he said what would you like for your birthday our American women were sitting and thinking oh some shoes you know or whatever purses and so when they heard a bull horn you know you could almost hear a pin drop the conviction was so heavy and all the husbands were going yeah thank you Moses but you delivered me but he was very impressive very impressive with his love for Jesus Christ I heard a story though that occurred true story with Moses and his son I had met his son when his son was a little boy and his son had grown older at this time and began to accompany his father on missions trips they had received an invitation to come to a particular village that was known for its occultism and so he saw that as a sign from the Lord thought it a good thing and he and his son went to this village but it was a trap it had been a setup for him so when he arrived in the village he was set upon by some of these very fanatic Hindus who are very upset at him preaching the gospel they took rods and beat him severely and they beat his son almost to death they tied both Moses and his son to a tree and beat them in this tree then they sent for a village skinner to come and skin him alive but providentially that man who did that kind of deed was not there so they severely beat them to the point where they could hardly move untied them released them and Moses was taken back to his village his son almost died had severe internal injuries he almost died but when he healed up he went back to the village with his son when he went walking back into the village to bring the gospel to these people who almost killed him when he came into the village they were waiting for him and they came running and said to him we've been waiting for you to come back because ever since we treated you the way that we did bad things have happened to us they took him to the tree that he had been tied to which was the oldest tree in the village which was used for their sacrifices and it had died it had withered up and died and they said we know that we have upset your God for the way we treated you please tell us about your God Moses was able to proclaim the message of the gospel to them planted a church there has a pastor there and God used that even in that beating Paul is speaking and saying you turn from dead idols to the living God and you became a testimony of the power of God for transformation so much so that we don't even have to proclaim things because a message is coming through you see that's how it works you receive the word of God and you take it out you share it in such a way that people listen and God's word continues to go forth and to bear fruit and the fruit here in their case was that they followed the Lord Jesus Christ became examples of believers and the word of God began to sound out from them they turned from idolatry which would be obvious of a transformation they turned from sin and turned to the Lord their lives changed they served the living God in opposition to dead idols so no longer did they just talk about God but they actually served the living God and became his servants and finally they waited for the return of the Lord Jesus Christ with a sustained anticipation Jesus is coming back Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come they waited patiently in him because they have their hope in him they aren't going to enter into tribulation they don't enter into the eternal termination they have a life with Christ he delivers us from the wrath to come that's the anticipation that serves as motivation for us to take this message to other people do you have somebody in your life somebody that you know that you love who doesn't know Jesus Christ who doesn't have a relationship with God pray for them put them on that little list and pray for them pray for them pray for them like my friend Bill who walked away from the Lord in 1971 remained away from God for 38 years shows up in church when I'm doing a baptism I hadn't seen him for some time tells me that he came to see me because he had been in the Middle East and he was training some police officers in 120 degree weather wearing 60 pounds of gear he was in his late 50s at that time and he said I was inside of my tent and I started asking myself what am I doing here I need to get out of here so he said I did something I haven't done in a long time I prayed he said and I said sorry I'm making promises to God and one of the promises I made was I'll come and see David if you get me out of the Middle East and he says and so within a couple weeks he got out they released him and he came and saw me and at that point he wasn't walking with the Lord at that point he was still rejecting didn't even remember that there was a time when he even claimed to be a Christian and from that point he and I began to meet on a monthly basis with another friend of ours and within about two years of just meeting with him and sharing with him and answering his questions I finally asked him so Bill where are you with Jesus now and he said to me I've received him as my lord and savior and he's been walking with the Lord now for over two and a half years and even as I speak right now he's in Israel having a pilgrimage spend time with the Lord Jesus Christ because his life was transformed I prayed for him for 30 some years for the Lord to reach down and touch my dear friend again a friend that I've had since I was five years old God answers prayer God answers prayer he listens to you as you cry out who do you have in your life that you think is so far gone they can't be saved well just remember that was you in somebody else's sight not that long ago they would have said that about you they just said David Rosales no way crazy drug abusing alcoholic no way but David Rosales sits here stands here today saying Jesus Christ is Lord because somebody prayed for me and somebody prayed for you and you are now praying for somebody else and may your life be a testimony of turning from the dead things like idolatry anything that takes place of God to the living God who gives you a life eternal through Jesus Christ that's what God has called us to


We're calling one number, only one number in the entire numbering system, whereby the electromagnetic color spectrum is the same as the sound system. That one number is 528.


Welcome back to Falcon 2022. My name is Dave Vellante. We're here with my co-host, Dave Nicholson. On the last earnings call, George Kurtz made a really big emphasis on the relationship with managed service providers. CrowdStrike has announced a new service provider capability, the powered service provider program. Jason Cooke is here. He's the president of Cyber Defense Labs. He's joined by Mike Riola, who's the vice president of global system integrators and service providers at CrowdStrike Gents. Welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Jason, tell us about Cyber Defense Labs. What do you guys do? Give us the bumper sticker, please. Cyber Defense Labs uses the best technology in the world to put together services that help protect our clients. Simple. Like it. What's XDR? So. I've not heard of that before, sorry. So, Mike, we've seen the rise of service providers. I saw a stat, I don't know, six, seven months ago that 50% of US companies don't even have a SOC. We're talking about mid to large companies. So, service providers are crucial. What's the CrowdStrike powered service provider program all about? Well, it's an evolution for us. We've been dealing with this market for some time. And the idea is, is like, how do we expand the opportunity to stop reaches? I mean, that's what it's all about. Like, more routes to market, more partners like Cyber Defense Labs that can really go in and bring our technology coupled with their services to power their offerings to their customers. And just help us reach every end user out there to stop reaches. So, Jason, how do you guys differentiate? Because I see, as an analyst, I'll look back. I'll read the press releases and they'll see, okay, they just look so similar. So, how do you differentiate from the competition? What do you tell customers? So, when it comes to our selection of technology, we test it, we work it, we literally put it into real-world situations with our clients. And then, we differentiate ourselves with expert services. It's a white glove service from us. We embed ourselves right in with our clients. That's why we call them our client partners. And they see us as part of their team, an extension of their team. They don't have the time to play with technology and work out what's best. They don't have the time to select it or even then the expertise to use it effectively in their environment. So, that's where the trust comes in with us. And then for us, likewise, where the technology provider such as CrowdStrike, we need to know the technology works and it does what it says. I always ask CISOs, what's your number one challenge? And they'll say lack of talent. The only time I didn't get that answer was at the MongoDB CISO at Reinforce.  AWS doesn't have the same problem, but obviously you see that problem. And you compliment that. Is that a fair way to think about it? Yeah, absolutely. Many companies, mid-market enterprises are really struggling to find talent. And then retain the talent. So for us, that's all we're about. And then we're there to enable your business to do what your business does. It is just working. And I think more and more so, you're going to see an industry clearly, CrowdStrike's going in that direction, that it's the service provider that becomes a critical element of that trusted circle. Does that translate into a market segment by size of organization, typically? Or you mentioned the ever never-ending quest for talent, which is critical, regardless of size. But what does your target market look like? So I think the biggest gap in the market, frankly, is still the mid-market. Many smaller companies still are really just struggling with what is the problem. At least in the mid-market and the enterprises, they really begin to understand the problem and want to invest and lean in. And here's the irony, they now want to partner to solve the problem because they recognize they can't do it on their own. So, Mike, what are the critical aspects of this program? I mean, got the press release out there, but put some meat on the bone for us. So if you look at what we were doing to enable managed service providers to go in and be powered by CrowdStrike before, it was in a corporate market segment, it was a specific set of product from us to really enable MDR, sort of that generation of services that a lot of customers looked at MSSPs for. And what the big message about this is, is we are now expanding that. We're taking it out of corporate, we're going up-market, we're going enterprise, we can leverage partners like Cyber Defense Labs to package our software into their offering and help them power them more than just in point. We've had a lot of exciting announcements and probably more to come around identity, XDR, the new buzz, right? Like what does it mean? And if you look at our approach, it's a very platform-centric approach. And that's something that partners can monetize, that's something that partners can really help clients grow with, is that it's not just about in point, it's more about how do I make sure that I'm in a position with a partner that allows me to grow as the market decides it's necessary. So things like identity, cloud, on and on and on, that we're investing in and continue to grow, we're making that available to the CrowdStrike-powered service-bounder marketplace. So Jason, service providers historically outsourcing, okay, and it used to be a lot of, okay, I'll take over your mess for less kind of thing, right? And so, the pattern was you would have one of everything. And then that limited your scale, the bigger you had this economies of scale. So am I hearing that, how do you partner with CrowdStrike? Are you kind of standardizing on that platform or not necessarily because you have to be agnostic? What's your posture on that? So there's a level of you have to be technology agnostic. We pride ourselves in just using the best technology that's out there. But at the same time, very much with the Falcon platform, they're building out and maturing in a way that's making significant risk mitigation abilities for a solution provider like us to say we'll take one of those, one of those and put our service around it because that's the best fit service to reduce the risk of this particular client. And having that flexibility for us to do that really allows us then to stay within the same sort of product suite rather than going outside when integration is still one of the biggest challenges that you have. So you're one of those organizations that's consolidating a bevy of point tools, is that right? I mean, you're going through that transformation now. Have you already gone through that? What's your journey look like there? We help companies do that. That's how they mitigate and reduce their risk. Okay, but you're using tools as well, are you not?  Absolutely, so it comes down to a lot of the time, do you have the right team? We have a team of experts that deliver expert services. You get to a level of skill set and experience which goes, what's just the best tool out there? And it becomes, that's our insight. So one of the reasons why we like the Falcon product is because regardless of what the mess is that's happening, you can rapidly deploy stuff to make a difference and then you then work out how to fix the mess, which is quite a change from how traditionally things are done, which is let's analyze the problem, let's look at options around it, and by the time you've done that, time has passed and you can't afford to just allow time to pass these days, so having the right technology allows you to rapidly deploy. Of course, we use what we sell, so we're proud to say that we use a number of the Falcon products to protect ourselves and consolidate onto that technology as we then offer that out as a service to our clients. So Mike, I'm thinking about the program in general and specifically how you are implementing this program, thinking about the path to bringing a customer on board. There are a finite number of strategic seats at any customer's table, so who is at the customer's table? Is it CDL saying, hey, I'm going to bring in my folks from CrowdStrike to have a conversation with you? Is it CrowdStrike saying, hey, it looks like a service provider might be the best solution for you, let's go talk to CDL, how does that work? It's a great question and I think we talk a lot about how there's a gap in people to support cyber efforts inside of companies, but we don't talk about the gap in experts that can go in and actually sit down with CISOs, with CIOs, with CFOs. And so for us, it's all about the flexibility. It's what do you need in the moment because at the end of the day it comes down to the people. If Jason has a great trust to relationship, he's like, hey, I just need some content, help me push why we're powered by CrowdStrike in this moment. Great, go run. If we have an opportunity where we know that Cyber Defense Labs has a presence, then we go in together. That flexibility is there. We've done a lot. When you build a program like this, it's easy to tell the market what they need. It's easy to tell everybody, but it's also, you're looking at a cultural shift in how CrowdStrike goes to market. This is all about how do we get every possible route to market to stop reaches for customers of all size. I would echo that. There's three ways that's working for our two companies at the moment. Many times a lot of the relationships that we have are trusted advisor at the owner or board level of these mid-market and enterprise companies. They're looking to ask for a number of things. And one of the things that we then say is, hey, for your technology roadmap, hey, we want to bring in code present, code discuss, code strategize with you what your roadmap is. And so we often bring CrowdStrike into the conversations that Cyber Defense Lab is having at the board level. Then on the other side, CrowdStrike obviously has a significant sales force and trusted advisors. They go in with the product and then it's apparent that the client wants way more than just the product. They say, this is great. I love it. I've made my decision, but I can't operate it effectively. And so we then get pulled in from that perspective. You get this all the time from product companies, right? It's like, okay, now what, how do I do this? And you go, oh, I'll call somebody. So this is going to accelerate. You go to market. And everybody looks at it like, how does your sales play with their sales, right? Everyone's going after the same thing. And I'm, you know, that's important. But you have to look at CrowdStrike as more than sales, right? We have an amazing threat intel group that are helping clients understand the risk factors and what bad people are trying to do to them.  You know, we've been doing this a long time. This is what's interesting to me when I think about your threat hunting, because you guys are experts and you guys are experts. But the, it's correct me if I'm wrong, but the advantage I see of the CrowdStrike has is your cloud platform allows you to have such a huge observation space. You got a ton of data and you bring that to the relationship as well. And then you benefit from that. It's two way. It's absolutely two way. CrowdStrike has a whole bunch of experts and expertise in this space. So the cyber defense labs, we call it for us because we're providing a service to multiple clients. Many of them have a global presence. We call it our global threat view. And absolutely we're exchanging real time threat telemetry data with our friends at CrowdStrike, which is impacting the value that we have and the ability to respond extremely quickly when something's happening to one of our clients. So sounds good, please. Well, I just add to that that, you know, if you look at all of our alliances, right? We've got solution providers, tech reliance, everything. The one thing that's really interesting about the CrowdStrike Powered Service Provider program, it lives in alliances. It's a partnership program, but they're our customer. They have chosen to standardize on our platform, right? To help drive the best results for their customers. And so we treat them like a partner because it's not for internal use. There's unlimited aspect to it. And so as that treating like partnership, we have to enable them with more than just product, right? We want to bring the right experts. We want to bring the right, you know, vision of where the market's going, the threats out there, things of that nature. And that's something that we do every day with you guys. And it was even expressed earlier with the keynote speech that George gave. Look, there's an ecosystem of very good technologies, very good providers. And there's that sort of frenemy view here. You put the best thing together for the client at the end of the day. And if we all acknowledge, which I think is the maturity of our partnership, that one plus one equals, I always say, at 51 now. If you play it right, then the client sees the value of the partnership. And so they want more of that. So it sounds like we had a rap, but I wonder if we could close on this. It sounds like this was happening just organically in the field. Now you've codified it. So my question to each of you is, what's your vision for the future? Where do you guys want to take this thing? What a rap question right there. I love it. Honestly, like we look at it in, look at what does it mean to be a CrowdStrike powered service provider? It is more than just the platform. It's the program in general, offering them tools to go in and do early assessments. One thing about service providers, they're in there before vendors, right? We're still a vendor at the end of the day. And so they have that relationship. Like how do we enable them to leverage our platform, leverage our tools, leverage our programs in order to help a client understand like what is your risk factor? Could a breach come? Things of that nature. And so it's really building and really enabling a partner like Cyber Defense Labs to take on the full suite of programs, services, platform that we can provide to them as a customer, treated like a partner. And Jason, from your perspective, bring us on if you would. So our partnership with CrowdStrike is really enabling Cyber Defense Labs to increase our share of wallet, our presence in very specific market segments. The mid-market to enterprise, especially around banking, financial services, auto dealerships, healthcare, manufacturing, where last year we saw a significant progress there and we think we're going to double it between this year and next year. Jason Cook, Mike Riola, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Great story. Thank you for having us. Thank you. All right, thank you for watching. Keep it right there. Dave Vellante and Dave Nicholson will be back right after this short break from Falcon 22. You're watching theCUBE.