Somebody's on the phone, I'll wait. If the phone rings, it costs a round of gin tonics. For you? No, for the round. Is my phone off? Hello, everybody. I'm sure most of you have seen Danielle's DNS over HTTPS talk yesterday. And we just had another intro from Fittorio. And now, under supervision of Jampiedmans, these three gentlemen will discuss over to you. Thank you, Peter. Good morning. I'm Jampiedmans. Welcome. I hope you can all hear me. I hope the microphone hears us. I'm here in order to be able to get into the room. That's the reason I accepted the job of a moderator. Otherwise, I would feel be somewhere else. But anyway, so I would like to introduce this illustrious panel and in order to apply to the slide, I'll start on the right. You have Mr. Daniel Stanberg from Sweden. Everybody knows or everybody uses software that he has written, for example, Curl. And Daniel is a very well-versed in all sorts of internet protocols. He worked. Please note the past tense for Mozilla. He has not spoken for Mozilla in the past. And he will probably not speak for Mozilla today. And if I am not mistaken, Daniel now works for the company Wolf TLS. Oh, I'm sorry. Wolf SSL. Am I right? Ooh. Ooh. In the center, Mr. Stefan Dorzmaier. Stefan is an old dinosaur of the internet. He knows all RFC numbers backwards and forwards. He is a distinguished member of AFNIC. He is the internet architect alconium of the French Network Information Center. He's an IETF member. He's written a book recently called Cyber Structure, l'Internet, and Espace Politique. And his Twitter avatar is a modem. So he's been around for a while. On the left, I'm sounding as though I'm presenting a ring, a ring match. On the left, we have Mr. Bert Hubert, a founder, I think it was in 1999, of PowerDNS. And it's, at least at the time, principal author. I think invented the DNS test, a load balancer. He doesn't write it anymore, but I think he invented it. Used to write it, OK. Be afraid, be very afraid. He's very well versed in a huge number of topics, including DNA and philosophy and all sorts of things.  So this is our panel. And in order to get us started and in order to introduce people and get these gentlemen started, I'm going to ask a question, I'm going to ask a number of questions, and we'll start way at the beginning in the under the assumption that people who will watch the video later on or are watching the stream now have not been in this room the whole day. Stefan, would you be so kind? I'm expecting the terms DOT and DOH to be used quite frequently. Could you in just two or three sentences explain what these are and what the differences are? DNS, when you said just DNS, it's a protocol which is unclear, which means that anyone on the network can read the queries, read what you are asking for, on even modifying them, which is quite common in many places. DOT, DNS over TLS, is using the well-known encryption security protocol TLS to protect the DNS queries. So people can no longer know that you are visiting pornhub.com. Nobody here do it, but it's an example. What domain did you say? Pornhub.com? No. And the good thing about DOT about DNS over TLS is that TLS is well-known and well-used, but it can be blocked because it uses a dedicated port. That's why we have DOH, which is a DNS over HTTPS. Again, it's a TLS protocol in Donis because it's HTTPS. But running over the HTTPS has the advantage that it's much more difficult to pinpoint that it's DNS traffic. So it's more difficult to block or. Thank you very much. Bert, it appears, at least from news and so on, it appears that US telecommunication giants are now selling location data of customer mobile phones just for the hell of it, and in particular, without their owner's knowledge. And people don't seem to be caring very much about privacy, in particular, if we look at the Facebook-type scandals, which are forgotten directly the weekend passes. In view of this, how relevant is DNS privacy at all? I think it's far more important, apparently, for us than it is for the general population. We have seen very large numbers of people, for example, move their DNS to Quad 8 from Google. That's because it's a superior service. It works really well, and it also frequently gets you around government censorship. So people do care about a free and open DNS and are willing to open dialogue boxes that say, do not open or void the warranty, and they will still do it. So people do care a lot about working DNS. If you go on the street and ask people, are you worried about Cloudflare or Google or Mozilla getting a copy of your DNS traffic, they will not care. We are discussing this sort of on behalf of users that are not themselves present in the room. So in that case, we need to imagine a lot, how are these people thinking? And that is my main beef where we can come to, if we start tell people, say, look, just press OK here, because this is more secure, then we have made a decision on their behalf because they will click that button. And then we have to be very, very sure that we made the right decision for them. And that is because the answer to your question is people don't care that much. Thank you. Daniel, which technology would you say is better suited to provide more privacy or more privacy in the DNS DOT or DOH? Thank you for that question. And the right answer is? I spent a few hours doing these. So. Well, of course, the answer is not 1 or 0 here. It'll depend on the situation. And going back to pretty much what Bert said, it's also about what you can ask the users to do and who sets things up. Because these are difficult questions. And handing over the choice to the users are never going to be the right way either. But at this moment in time, we don't even, we don't have the correct way to do it automatically or by the systems either. So I would say that right now, we're in a weird situation where, yeah, we have DOT and we have DOH. And they are both good ways to secure DNS. But as long as we're doing everything opportunistically and just trying out things and go with what works, then DOH is going to be the better option. Because DOH is right now just because you're forced to sort of the customer's customability to the user, which is wrong. But since we do that, it offers better privacy because you know who you're talking to.  I see a head shake here. Yeah, because actually a user does not know. The user gets a button that says, do you agree with us getting, sending your DNS to this cloud mountain company in the US or whatever, and it will be better. And they will, okay, this is not an informed consent. Compared to what you mean, your DOT selection. But you didn't select that either. Someone else did for you. So you mean one selection and the other selection, which selection is best. The user doesn't know either way. So this is actually a great point. Where did the user choose? So because we cannot have a content, they will not be involved with the technical discussion because they just pick a browser or they pick a service provider. And if they pick a service provider, they get the Boximus or the Telia DNS with that because they picked that company to provide their internet services. And in the future, they will say, we're gonna move that choice from picking a provider to picking a browser. But it's still a choice.  It's not a very informed choice. Well, unfortunately, most choices of the user are not well informed. I suspect that many users don't even clearly make a difference between a browser and an ISP. So it's a big problem for security and privacy for everyone, but for the specific case of the DNS because we are in the DNS dev room, it's even worse because DNS is something which is in the infrastructure, which is well hidden. So even we cannot already have, we don't have already an informed consent when people choose a browser and ISP and very often they don't have a choice anyway. So DNS is even worse, which means that in the meantime we have to take our responsibility. We have to decide by ourselves because we cannot reasonably ask the user to do so. But for the future, we still need to explain to the user to explain so that in the future when people will be better informed, at least know why we did that. Yeah. I'd like to add, okay, this is really hard for users to make this decision because they won't. They will never know, so we have to make up this decision for them. But I would add to that, yeah, we can discuss dot and do exactly how much dot traffic can we see today. That depends on your system being set up for that and that's basically not used today at all. So right now we can offer a browser. Let's say there's a billion Windows computers out there. They can only run that browser today, I mean, theoretically, and they could use dough tomorrow. So that's also, I think that's also something to take into account. That's much easier to deploy. Is the question here from the audience? Yeah, rather more a comment. I indeed think the user is not making the choice here. They're choosing their provider, but not making thinking about this particular problem. So indeed, actually we on behalf of the users have to make that choice or at least pick a same default. So what would be a good default? In my opinion, I think the more local you resolve, it's better to adapt for that community rather than picking something that is very centralized, that has to cover all users with all different ideas on how to do things. So I guess the question could be, what is the good default here? Thank you very much. I don't, well, choice is a very loaded word for most people don't choose really the ISP. Very often they have no choice and even if they do, basically they are all the same. So there is often very little difference, not a real choice. Now for the door client, what is the same default? I know that system D, for instance, use 8888 as a default, which is certainly by ID privacy-wise. At the present time, unfortunately, there is no way to have a proper default here. But one of the reasons is that we don't have enough door providers. One of the biggest mistakes in Vittorio Bertola talk before was to confuse the door protocol with the door services. Today, the big door services are Cloudflare, Google, and a few others, not a lot. But though itself as a protocol, you can talk door with anyone if you want to talk door with, I don't know, except for all the door servers when they have one, you can do it. So really the issue now is to write more software to have door servers and to deploy them so we have a real choice, so we have a lot of door servers. But when Vittorio Bertola was talking about concentration, it has nothing to do with door in the same way that the dominance of Gmail has nothing to do with the SMTP protocol. I mean, you can use door to talk with anyone and then users will really have a problem of a choice which door server, which door resolver to use. But today, the problem is that there is no choice. There are only a few providers and they are basically all the same, GAFA, US company, et cetera. So that's the first thing we should address, I believe. Brief call, I think this panel will agree that DNS over HTTPS as a protocol is not the thing we're worried about. It is, we're worried about what would people do with that. And that moves it on to the door provider selection. Power DNS runs a door server. Out of nothing, we've got thousands of users. Many of them in Indonesia.  But apparently we are small enough that we fit in the Indonesian window of opportunity. I'm not going to tell them that. Sorry, I will, but to briefly round up my remark, the big question isn't going to be, if we think though as a service is a good thing, how are we going to make sure that users actually get a good choice and that they get presented with that choice? And on that front, there is some bad news because there's a whole bunch of door providers that have been aching to get into the Mozilla program and it's not working. The phone calls are not getting returned. There are mysterious privacy arrangements. There are secret contracts that cannot be shown. And if we are serious that having more door choice is good, the browser vendors that are offering us this DOE button, this DOE recommendation should have a transparent program that says these are the constraints under which you can become a DOE provider. If you have the following attributes, we will gladly list you. And maybe we'll even give you a score in terms of your privacy commitment and other stuff. But what we cannot have is the browser vendors as a gatekeeper sitting there in California and saying, well, you can be part of the program but you cannot be part of the program. That is a big problem. Thank you, Bert. Start in the back, after each other. Why didn't you get a more agile moderator? You need me to do the walking. So actually, Stefan covered my initial question but what do you all think of something where if there's an existing ISP resolver, that is configured. And it turns out that the browser or application can determine that it also supports DNS over TLS or DNS over HGPS to automatically upgrade to using that. Does anybody have unhappiness with that? Oh. You won't recognize me in an hour. Unhappiness. No, I think that's, again, that goes back. Sure, that's opportunistic. That's good. That'll keep us from all the passive Eavesdropper everywhere in the spies and it'll take us a huge step forward. So yes, that's good. And there's a draft going on with basically that idea. But we'll still come back to the case that, yeah, that's your ISP but what about Foster here, right? Who's telling you which server it is today? It might have been my computer that handed out the server and then you talk to my computer instead. So doing it opportunistically, yeah, going to save us from the passive attackers, not the active ones. And that's a tricky question. I don't have any answers actually to do it in a good way. Stefan, why are, I'll be with you in a second. Well, why are so many people scared of their ISPs spying on them? Is that a differentiation that is made on the American continent, North American continent respectively in Europe? Or is it generally also here a problem in Europe that people are scared of their ISPs spying on them? It's not all, only spying. It's also modifying as a request like in the Indonesian case. Or like it is mandatory in most European countries, in most European countries, ISPs are compelled by law to lie about some domains for reasons of file sharing, promotion of terrorism, et cetera, et cetera. So for spying, the biggest problem with spying is of course it's very difficult to know if you are really spied upon or not. It leaves no trace. But I can notice that a few years ago I was at a big meeting in France on the representative for the number one ISP in France, complained that because of the rise of encryption that no longer can see the user traffic. And he was also winning that GAFA can still see it because of the endpoint. So apparently there is really a news in DNS traffic and unlike what has been said, we are not protected by laws like GDPR because the data protection authority today are already overloaded with HTTP issues and they don't care about the DNS. I spent a lot of time with the French data protection authority trying to motivate them about DNS privacy and it was impossible. First, because DNS is an infrastructure that most people don't see and don't care about. Second, because they have enough work with HTTP so they don't wish to have something more to do. So spying is a real problem. And data manipulation is also one, one of the reasons why people switch to 8888 read any user form where users help themselves, the blind leading the blind. That often most of the time it's, I cannot see this site because it's censored. So switch to 8888 and you will be happy. On the second case is failure, a problem. One of the biggest one in France was when the number one ISP loaded instead of the normal blacklist of terrorist domains, they loaded a test list including Google and Wikipedia.  So after this, a lot of users switch to 8888 and it will be very hard to convince them that the local ISP following local laws is better. Thank you very much. Pornhub was not blocked at that day. You said something about how is the list of the DOH providers vetted. Couldn't they use probably something similar what they use with certificate authorities? Let me duck now. Well, of course, I mean, that could be done. But then you would just pour it over to the user and say, sure, I already have 12 different providers, pick one and everyone will go with the default anyway. Like they do with search engines and that's an economy that powers the entire internet today. So sure, we can do that and everyone will use the default.  The one who pays the most, right? Because that's what we do already with the search engine. So I'm sure it could be done. But is that, I don't know, might be better than today. Instead of let's encrypt, it's let's DNS, let's DNS or something of that. Sure, that could be. I mean, you could have something for the public driven. Maybe. As I said, the good solution is to have a large number of possible door providers. For the user, it will mean that the choice will be difficult and we don't have an easy way to present to the user their differences. So let's try something wild. Maybe asking the application author to choose a door resolver at random in order to spread the load. But if we do something like that, then you have the problem of split DNS, things like internal zones, which can't be found, external zones, which can't be found, VPN, et cetera, et cetera. Well, a whole mass of new problems would arise. So I'm actually one of the people with that problem. So I run DOH exclusively on my browsers for the past few months and it breaks my VPN. Because at the moment I turn on my VPN, I'm still using my DOH server and it doesn't see inside the VPN. So we are making choices on behalf of users to make their life better, which is nice. But we're actually in the process also breaking some of the stuff that they may be relying on working. So it's not that clear that it's always an improvement. Bert, we'll keep the microphone please. The quads, what I call the quads, the quad eight, quad one, quad nine, et cetera, are getting quite a bit of DNS traffic from all of the world. And they don't seem to stop advertising or desiring that people actually use them. Why are they doing this? I'm sure they're doing, I'm sure they're not doing it for my good. I would love to give Warren the opportunity to say something right now, so. Let me go, let me go, let me go. It's okay, I'll manage, I won't faint. Maybe. Oh dear, I'm just like thinking what all my lawyers are saying now. So yes, at least the Google 8888 one, it's not doing it for purely altruistic reasons. I will happily tell you, and I know this for a fact, it does exactly what it says on the privacy policy. It's not mining it for stuff, et cetera, go read the privacy policy. The reason that Google provides 8888 is it makes things go faster. People who have faster internets use the internet more. People who use the internet more see ads more. People who see ads more make us more money. So yeah, it's not done just out of the goodness of anybody's heart.  Having people use those is better. Having people not be censored is better.  The ads for, thank you. The ads for Quad 8, I can understand, but what about a Quad 1 or Quad 9? I'm not speaking to those. What's going on? Would somebody like that answer, that question? Well, this has been discussed before, but so I can't speak for any one of them, but sure, go read their privacy policy, what they do with the data. But I think a man over there can speak for one of them, at least. Watch your toes. Yeah, hi, Christian, I work on DNS for Cloudflare on the resolver team there. And we do it for very much the same reasons that Google does, but of course we don't make money from ads, but we make it from our paying customers who pay for our other services. And what we do is we make their domains faster as well. So if people are using our resolver to resolve our customers' domains, they get a really, really fast answer. And as Warren said, people that get a faster response use the internet more and they use our customer services. Thank you very much. Apropos fast, are there definitive, I've had that question asked me several times, I'll give it to Daniel. Are there definitive measurements, have definitive measurements been done as to the performance, as to the fastness of DOE versus a local installed DNS test? Yeah, I mean, while I worked at Firefox, we did a lot of experiments and we got a lot of crap for our attempts to actually figure this out. But okay, yeah, of course DOE is slower than your native resolver in many cases, but in the tail end you gain a lot, but because the worst cases become much better. So it's a balance, it's a penalty, of course, because you get added privacy and encryption, but it's slightly slower responses. And then I know there's also this bigger concern, yeah, but what about getting the wrong IP back, right? So maybe you get bad, sort of, that's not the correct server you're downloading your huge files from, so maybe that isn't added. And I know there's been tests going on with that too, but I don't know the final outcome, how exactly that penalty is. Thank you. I have a question here. So for a very long time people have said that you can't run your own resolver in your machine because it's too slow. And now we have changed to that, the average resolver, at least the worst case scenario, is also too slow, so we should show us these other alternatives, though, because it is faster than the slow alternative, but it's slow in average. Why is the first option now still bad again? Is just running on your solver and have it encrypted for the normal ways, is not just better? Thank you. Bert, would you like that? Or Stéphane? Well, first, evaluating the speed, performance of a resolver is very difficult because it depends if it's in cache or not in cache. It depends on the authoritative name servers when it's not in cache. It depends on whether you're interested in the better case or the worst case. So I will not talk about performance, it's too difficult. Now for the point of view of privacy, having your own resolver on your own machine, which is probably something very easy for most of the people in the room, it's not very good for privacy because in that case, request to authoritative name servers will be from your own address, not even the address of the resolver. From the point of view of control, having exactly the resolution you want, the filtering you want, on, I don't want my DNS resolver to claim that this or that is malware or thing like that. I want them to tell the truth, not to modify anything. So for the point of view of control, having a local resolver on your machine, at least on your network, I invite everybody here to go to see the tourism booth here at Fosdem.  Something that ISP don't do on their DNS resolver. If they were doing my will, they would filter googleanalytics.com first. So the choice of having your own resolver on your own machine or in your own network is not of use. There is performance, there is privacy, there is control on the three of them and maybe difficult to get together. A good solution would be probably to have your own resolver locally, validating locally, but also when they don't have the data in the cache that they could ask another resolver with DOE, for instance, to get the information. It's not difficult technically, a stubby already does it, so it's probably, it should be the future. Thank you very much. We have another two and a half or something minutes. I think any questions from the audience? Peter? Why is everyone concerned with the data transmission from me as an end user to the first DNS server and not within encryption of, for example, the resolver to an author of name server? So DOE is for the last mile and what about the rest of the miles, Daniel? I think we are concerned about that, but I think that's, I mean, yeah, sure, we need that encrypted too. Stefan wrote a draft about that. And we really want that to work. We are all pro encryption. We want to have that happen. But the very interesting, strange thing is that a resolver that is used by a million people is in itself a privacy mixing device because you no longer know who made that lookup or not. So it is important to encrypt all the things and we want that. I'm very happy also to hear Warren remark that we have been stimulating the service provider community to say, please turn on DNS over TLS on all the RV solvers because modern Android phones will now attempt to use it for you. More encryption is good. We need to have that. And simultaneously, you can actually benefit from this million user resolver for being a privacy mixing device. Assuming you don't send your client submits.


Hi guys, welcome back to this channel. It's Meks from Meks Creation yet in another video. Remember this is what you call the summer period. It's a summer period. It's very hot. It's humid in some places. We have degrees go as far as 45 but sometimes even 49. We don't know what you expect in coming but I have to let you know the summertime it's always very hot and humid in some days. In today's video we want to look at the answer. I want me to answer the question that was being also asked. It's about you coming to Qatar and where are you posted to work. The question was that yes I'm coming to Qatar but can I choose my area of work or can I choose my job location or my duty location. Yes it depends. The answer may be yes or no. In what we say no. For example what I have to let you know for the newcomers who are coming to Qatar if you are being recruited by that company yes remember you're being recruited or you're being under the guidance from your country under the guidance of an agent. You may not know where your sponsor is or your sponsor is or where you are going to be working. Yes you may know I'm going to be working security. I may be working as a cleaner. I may be working as a shamba boy. I may be going to work as a driver but you do not decide where the location where you are going to work. It just depends on your company. It depends on your employer and what kind of contracts they have with the clients. You may find your company has a contract with the client that is the client that is staying 30 kilometers away from the main town. So that means if your employer at that time you are the kind of personnel the kind of manpower he has to employ there. Then definitely they will transfer you and go and stay there. Depending. Some of us we come from these countries or come from our countries with a lot of expectations having seen this on Google, having seen this on TV on social media that I'm going to Qatar. I'll be working or I'm going to Bahrain or I'm going to UAE or I'm going to Dubai or I'm going to Saudi Arabia and I'll be working in the middle of the town. I'll be working in Doha because they told me Doha is very nice or I'll be working in Doha because I see people posting themselves on social media or people even doing or moving Doha. I'll be working in Doha. That's where I want to work. Yes, that one you may have in the bus special. You're thinking at that time may be right at that time but remember you do not choose where you're going to work and you do not give employment to yourself. Someone else is unable to control. So what will happen is that, what will happen at that site is that they can post you wherever they have to post you. You find that you come with a frame but definitely this frame is working 30 kilometers away from where you're living. So definitely it will definitely depends on the kind of contracts that company has with the clients and where you'll be posted in one order. And remember in some situations you find companies that with very many people, for example, you look at securities you look at cleaning companies, you may find that these companies have very many projects across the country and they may ascertain you in a different area where there will be a villa and that's where you would say with other colleagues that are going to work in that area. So meaning that sparing you for that time you're not going to choose where you are going to work. Another example is that people who are going to work to farms you find most of these Arab countries most of these nationals or citizens of these countries have what you call the country homes. They may not only have homes that are in the city but they may have what you call country homes and you may go to those country homes that are 30 kilometers away from the main time and these people are doing farming over that site people are doing rail, people are doing and more keeping and if it is your work to be a Shamba boy you may find that you are being posted to that area that is far away even the main town. You are there alone. You are not going to say no because this person has already injected a visa in you and you are already in the country and your role is to work not to choose where you are going to work. So you may find that in that kind of situation you are not going to choose where you are going to work so you may find that you may even take a long period of times or even years or even months before without even seeing someone of your nationality in that area so that one is not that is very important because all what brings us to these countries is to work to earn to be a Shamba boy to be a Shamba boy to be a Shamba boy to be a Shamba boy to work to earn bread for our families so that is what normally will happen or that is what will happen for example we look at people who are coming to this sector let's say for example you are coming as a security guard yes you are coming as a security guard but you are not going to use that I am going to be working in the mall I am going to be working in the market I will be working in the supermarket I will be working in the bank no you do not choose that for yourself you are right over you at that time and it is going to deploy you wherever he thinks he has made for the client needs or wherever he has got a contract from at the end of the time and sometimes it also depends you find that some duties for example people are cleaning duties you find some duties for example security guards you find some duties where you have to sit and some duties you have to start so definitely all those kind of challenges you really assigning the contractor and work for 12 hours and work for 9 hours you have to persevere and get through the persevere rate to see that you can be able to live to fulfill the contract and not to breach the contract for example you may come in as a cleaner you may come in as a cleaner and you may not be posted to cleaning offices you may be posted to cleaning hotels you may be posted to cleaning hospitals you may be posted to cleaning supermarkets so all those are different types or all those are different examples that I am giving you that you are not going to choose where you are going to work you are not going to choose your due direction but whether your employer or your supervisor or the person in charge of you is the one that is going to choose according to the need in that area or according to the need in the company or according to what contract you may come with those kinds of companies or clients thank you so much for coming back by the way don't forget to hit that notification don't forget to drop a comment in the comment section let us try to share feel free drop a comment drop what you feel what you like in the video what you want us to talk about let us try to share let us try to share together


In this cave, by the restless sea, we are met to call from out the past, stories, strange and weird. Bellkeeper, hold the bell, so all may know we are gathered again in the weird circle. Out of the past, phantoms of a world gone by speak again the immortal tale, the evil eye. Please read the last line, Mr. Desperamon. A, is that Z? Go right ahead. Z, T? No, I can't see the rest, Doctor. Very well. Now lean back while I have a look. What is it? Did that hurt your eyes?   Oh, well then put your head way back. I can probably see with the overhead light. There, now let's see. Please suppose that light hurt them so. I'm afraid, Mr. Desperamon, that your eyes are very much weakened. Strong light of any sort will probably... Probably I... I... oh, I... I'm afraid I'll have to stop for a moment. What's the matter, Doctor? You're suddenly so pale. Are you ill? I don't know. All at once I felt so weak, so perhaps my heart had almost stopped. Here, let me sit down for a moment. Well, I'll get you a glass of water. Here. Here, Doctor, take a drink of this. There. That's a bit better. Just let me sit here a minute. Maybe it was from leaning over so far to look into my eyes. Why, no, I... I wasn't leaning too far. I just observed the odd color of the iris of your eye, Mr. Desperamon. A color usually associated with... Well, that doesn't matter. But all at once it seemed to me that the light caught a reflection in your eye, and as I saw that, I... I felt terribly weak. Almost... almost as though I'd been heavily drugged. Are you feeling any better now, Doctor? Yes. Yes, thank you, somewhat. I'll give you my report, and then I believe I shall go home for tea. I shall have to cancel my next appointment. I hope the report isn't too bad. You see, I'm leaving London in a few days, and I'd hate to have to miss the trip. Well, sir, as I said, your eyes are greatly weakened. I should definitely advise you are keeping out of strong light, especially bright sunlight. I'm afraid that if you don't, you will greatly endanger your vision. You mean I... I may go blind? I'm sorry to have to tell you this, sir, but I must be frank. You will almost certainly be blind within time unless... Well, without surgery, those nerves cannot be saved. But Doctor, I've got to go to Naples. Everything's arranged, and I... I can't change things. For what reason, Mr. Desmond? Well, one that may sound a bit super-romantic, I'm afraid. You see, my fiancée, Miss Ward, has gone there with her uncle, and I'm going to join her for a short while. Well, there's no hindering youth in love, sir. I may as well give up that thought now. I'll tell you, though, I should advise treatment immediately upon your return. And, meantime, against the brilliance of the Italian sun, I should advise covering your eyes with smoked glasses. Under no circumstances look directly into brilliant light. You think it'll be safe to go then, Doctor? Well, tell me, why can't Miss Ward return to London? Surely, if you explain... I should hate to worry her over so trivial a matter, Doctor. Trivial? I assure you, Mr. Desmond, this is no trivial matter. It means your sight, the power to see. Under those circumstances, I should send for her, I suppose, but you see, she went there for her own health, and as long as I can protect my eyes until I return, I feel that my visitor, her, would be safer. Has she been very ill? Look at me, Mr. Desmond, while we talk. Keep your eyes from that strong overhead light. Well, for some time before her departure, she was subject to sudden fits of faintness. Her color had gone, and she was very weak when she left London. Those faint spells were... were very strange, Doctor. In fact, they seemed to come upon her just as yours did. Often when we were very close looking into each other's eyes. Well then, sir, in that case, I should... I should have... the flash of light in your eyes. Doctor! Doctor, what is it? Can't you hear me, Doctor? What's the matter? All right, Monsieur. They've said we may go ashore now. Oh, good, good, Rudolf, I'm certainly ready. This trip to Naples has been rather tiresome. Monsieur is anxious to reach his destination, and, Miss Ward... Monsieur is very anxious for that. Let's get started. So there I was. I hope I got... I've already attended to the luggage, Monsieur Paul. It's on the dock. Was there anyone there? But yes, Monsieur, there was. Well... Well, quickly, Rudolf, tell me, was it Miss Ward? Miss Ward? No, Monsieur. But it's a very... yes, a very charming lady. Tell me, Rudolf, who is it? Miss Ward's personal maid, Monsieur, whom she'll send a greet you in. A maid? No one else? Oh, just the carriage driver, Monsieur. Miss Ward has sent a carriage with a message that you're to come to their house at the beach as quickly as it is convenient. The maid, Louisa, will help you. Who was there? No other message. Perhaps Louisa has one for you, Monsieur. Oh, there she is, there. Oh, is she not lovely. It'd be fine, wouldn't it, Rudolf, if you were to take the maid and hire the mistress. Yes, Monsieur. Louisa! Here! Here! Oh, Signor, it is to me a pleasure to welcome you. Signor! What is it, Louisa? Is something wrong? Signor, it is... I will call the carriage. Wait, wait, Louisa! See, Signor? What is it? What's wrong? What on earth have you got there in your hand? It is nothing, Signor. A tiny pair of horns which I wear on this chain around my neck. Horns? For what for? You're holding them pointed at me so oddly. They are for my protection, Signor. That is all. I must call the carriage. What do you make of that, Rudolf? I cannot say, Monsieur. Oh, well, you get the baggage to the hotel and I'll meet you there later after I visit Miss Warden, her uncle. Yes, Monsieur. Louisa! Your Master, you have worked for him for long? Eight years. You know what these are? These horns I carry? Yes, I know. I am Italian by birth, but I do not believe. You will believe? And before long? Your Master, Signor Paul. He is very evil, that one. I get the tori! Oh, it's so wonderful to see you again. Relish, my darling. Oh, it's been so long. I'm sorry you couldn't have come sooner. It's wonderful here. It is a beautiful spot. And you, my darling, are more lovely than ever. Come with me out to the terrace. I fixed it up for tea. The Commodore and a friend of ours are there now. Did you enjoy the trip here? It was quite tiresome. But anything would be tiresome away from you, Alicia. Paul, my dearest. But come on, the others are waiting. Oh, Paul, my lad, welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Commodore. Delighted to be here. And we're delighted to have you. Though I must say, Alicia doesn't look the worst for having missed you. Oh, uncle, I've spoken of him constantly. You know that. He's right, though. He's right, though, Alicia. You do look very well. Much better than when you left London. I look well because you've arrived at last, Paul. Oh, but we're forgetting our manners. Paul, may I present Count Altavilla, our friend. A pleasure, Senor. Sir, Alicia has written of you in her letters. I'm delighted meeting you. Well, now that you're here, Paul, you'll have to look to your laurels. Count Altavilla would like to be your rival. I shall do my best to prevent that, sir. I'm sure the Count would be a far more charming friend than enemy. I think, gentlemen, that this is something of a question for me to decide, isn't it? Why, Senor, what is that you have in your hand? This. Why, my dear, it's a little ornament I always carry on a chain around my neck. Let me see. Why, it's a tiny pair of horns. A pair of horns? Have you seen them before, Paul? Yes. Yes, I have. I am not surprised, sir. Well, what on earth are they for? They serve a very real purpose, my dear. We were speaking of your health, Alicia. You have improved greatly since coming here to Naples. My faint spells have stopped. I'm sure it's the sunshine. You've had none of the spells since you left London. She's been as bright and healthy as a flower, Paul, and just as beautiful. With that, I agree, Commodore. Extremely beautiful. I can see that this is my afternoon to shine. Oh, but I do love to sit here in the warm, senior year in the afternoon, though. It's been good for me. Well, the sun is coming around this way now, and you'll see how delightful it is. Will it be directly on us? In a few minutes, yes. Why, Paul? Don't say, Paul, that you're afraid of a little sunlight. Well, it's just that you see my eyes need protection. That's why I wear these smoked glasses occasionally. Yes. Your eyes do need protection, senior. Oh, could you tell, sir? Oh, great deal, senior. If you men will insist upon talking in riddles, I shall have to separate you. Come on, Paul, let's walk in the garden. There's shade there, and you can take those foolish glasses off again. I'd love to, Alicia. You'll pardon us, gentlemen. Oh, of course, of course, my lad. Perhaps, senior, it would be better if you get the glasses on, even while you're in the garden. Well, if you think so, sir, perhaps it would be best. What on earth were you two talking about that way? I can't understand a thing. Well, isn't the count an eye, doctor? Heaven's no eye. I don't believe there's anything but a wealthy man.  It's shady here. I will, madame. I can see your lovely face more clearly without them. Paul, did you notice that the count put away those funny little horns after you put your glasses on? No. I can't understand it. He's been so strange this afternoon. First, he's spoken a peculiar way about my health, and then about your eyes. Maybe he's jealous, darling, driven out of his mind with jealousy. Oh, Paul. A man might well be about a beautiful girl like you, especially when that beautiful girl watches another man with such concentration. Oh, Paul, did I do that? I love every minute of your watching me. We've been apart so long, Paul. I want to devour you with my eyes. Oh, Alicia, my darling, my only love let me hold you here. Stay still here in my arms and let me look at you. Let me look into those beautiful eyes of yours. Paul, Paul. Paul, what's happening? What's the matter? Alicia. Alicia, speak to me. Paul, I feel so faint, so funny. Just the way I used to feel before I left London. Well, here, darling, sit down here on this little bit. Trust yourself for a moment. There, I'm beginning to feel better now. A little stronger. I can't imagine what it was. I was losing all my strength. I could see the light flashing in your eyes. Let's go back to the house. This worries me. Maybe a little rest. Yes, rest may be what I need, Paul. I've been waiting for you for so long, and now that you're here, perhaps my nerves are in need of rest. Come on, dearest. Look up there on the terrace. The count is gone, I guess. Yes, yes. The Commodore is standing there alone. He seems to be waiting for us. He seems puzzled about something. Why, Uncle, what's the matter? So, you're back already? What is it? You look pale, Alicia. Has something happened? It was nothing serious. I'm better now. I had one of my faint spells, that's all. It worried me, sir. And well, it might. Alicia hasn't had one of those for a long time. What's that in your hand, Uncle? Count Altaville. I left a present for you, my dear. A present for me? Well, why didn't he give it to me himself? He said you might need it. He hadn't thought of it while you were here. Let me see, Uncle, give it to me. Why, what on earth? What is it? A tiny pair of horns. Paul, what can this mean? Do you want anything else, Monsieur? No, thank you, Rudolph. That was a delicious dinner they set up. It is an excellent hotel, Monsieur. Tell me, Rudolph, you talked to Louisa the other day after I'd left. Did she explain her attitude toward me? She seemed so frightened. No, Monsieur, she was not frightened. It was... Well, it was just... Oh, come, come, Rudolph. I could see that there was something wrong, and later Count Altaville held a pair of these horns toward me, just as Louisa had. Monsieur, if you insist on knowing, it's a silly superstition they have here. Superstition? What kind? It's about the evil eye.   Perhaps not so ignorant. But, Monsieur, you do not believe it. You remember, Rudolph, I told you about the doctor's fainting after examining my eyes? Yes, Monsieur. The same thing happened with Alicia. The first time she's fainted since she came here, since she saw me last, there could be a connection. Tell me, Rudolph, you were born in this country. Have you ever seen this, this evil eye in action? I have seen several accused of having it. A man so afflicted is called a yetatory.   And the horns, what are they? Horns, Monsieur? You have seen those two? Twice. They are supposed to be able to ward off the evil of the glance of a yetatory. Then even the Count Altaville believes in this. Even so educated a man as he, Monsieur. I will answer, Monsieur. Monsieur, at Destrement, you please. Who is calling, Monsieur? Count Altaville, come in, come in. I'll thank you, Signor. I trust I am not intruding. Not at all. Be seated, Signor. It's a pleasure to see you. Perhaps it will be less of a pleasure when I've explained my visit. Was that so, Signor? I see you've not forgotten to replace the horns. By no means. I trust them with my life. And so must Miss Ward until I have your promise to stay away from her. Stay away from her? I can't do that, Signor. I've come to ask you that very thing. But she's my fiancée. You have no right to ask such a thing. It is for her sake. You can do a great harm. I can take steps, Signor, to prevent that harm. No, Signor, that will not do. You must refuse to see her again. And leave the field clear for you. Precisely. I shall marry Miss Ward. She will be safe that way. And, Signor, what will Miss Ward have to say about this? I've already told her and her uncle about the evil power you possess. I warned them. And what was Miss Ward's answer? Unfortunately, she was stubborn, Signor. She will not believe in this power.  But that, of course, is immaterial. Immaterial, Signor? Immaterial that the girl I love, the most wonderful girl in the world, would prefer to chance death with me than marry another? How can you dare to come here to me in my own rooms and suggest such things?  Yes, Signor. Perhaps you will want satisfaction for that. Very well, Signor. If you prefer it that way, I accept your challenge. Monsieur, you're not thinking of dueling. Not in these days. It's been forbidden. Please, Monsieur, reconsider. I cannot reconsider now. The thing is done. Don't fear, Signor. I know the place for this. There is a cave on the seashore. No one will be near. As for the weapons, Signor, I have a suggestion. I will give you the privilege of selecting the weapons.  Blindfolded? And that way, Signor, if one of us wishes to run away, he will also not be able to find the cave's mouth. It is a fair suggestion, Signor. It is settled then. Tomorrow morning at sunrise. The cave is near to Miss Ward's house. Your servant will stand guard outside. There will be no danger of discovery, Signor, for the tide washes into the cave and leaves it bare of clues. Sir! Sir! What have you done? This is it, Sir. The cave. Very well, Rudolph. And there is Count Altavilo coming up the beach. Oh, Monsieur, I beg you, stop now. Don't go on with it. No, Rudolph, it's settled now. I must go on. Signor, is everything prepared? I'm quite ready. Very well, then. Look in here. You see, there is sufficient room for us. Enough for our purpose, Signor. All right, Rudolph. You may blindfold us now. Bind my eyes first, so the Count will see that it's done fairly. Monsieur, I... Come, come, come. Rudolph, it's getting late. Very well, Monsieur. There. Tell me if I tie it too tightly. No, that's fine. Tie on Count Altavilo's blindfold now and leave us into the cave. Yes, Monsieur. And you, sir, am I tying it too tightly? It fits very well as it is. And now, this way, Monsieur, this way. Stand guard outside, Rudolph. Be sure to keep careful watch. Yes, Monsieur. And now, Signor. Ready, Signor. Silence, Signor. Your voice gives your position away. There, so does, Signor. You have stabbed me, Signor. It is a mortal wound. Signor, Count Altavilo. Oh, let me see. Let me get this blindfold off. Oh, it is you. Thank heaven, it is you. Yes, Rudolph, the tide. The tide will come later and claim Count Altavilo. At least no one can say it wasn't a fair fight. Oh, no, Monsieur. Here, I will get your coat. The sun is rising now, but you are chilled. Yes, yes, the sun is rising. Rising on another day. Look, Rudolph, how red and brilliant this is. Rudolph. Rudolph, my eyes. My head. Where are you? I can't see you. Everything is dim and dark. I'm here, Monsieur. Right here. Can't you see me yet? Yes, yes, Rudolph. Now that you're closer, I can't see you. But not too well. Oh, Rudolph. This is a great day for me. Monsieur, your eyes. They are red. Do they hurt you? Can't you see? I can still see, Rudolph. I can still see, but not for long. Rudolph, I'll soon be blind. But, Monsieur, you sound happy. Happy to be blind. I forgot. I looked at the sun when it was rising. It was brilliant and red. And now, now I'll be blind. Why did I think of it before? Of what? Blindness, Rudolph. Blindness. If I'm blind, my eyes can hurt no one. It was so simple. And now, now, by chance, by the goodness of the heaven, I'll be blind. Alicia and I will be safe together after all. Monsieur, have you gone mad? Oh, far from it, Rudolph. A lucky accident has brought me happiness. Alicia. Alicia. Rudolph, go back and wait for me at the hotel. I'm going to go now. I must see you again just once again before I can see her no longer. Alicia, my darling. Pa, why are you here so early in the morning? Alicia, I had to come. I had to tell you that everything's all right now. What's all right, my dearest? It always has been, hasn't it? I knew you'd be awake Alicia when I came and called under your window. They couldn't have been anything better to wake up to than the sound of your voice calling me. It's wonderful here in your garden in the early sunlight, isn't it? Any place is wonderful with you, my darling. Everything is so brilliant and sparkling. But Paul, you've forgotten. Your eyes, you said you had to protect them. Well, that doesn't matter any longer, my love. It's over. What's over? Oh, Paul, why does everyone act so strange? First, it's Count Altaville with some weird idea about your eyes and now you act so mysteriously. It's nothing to worry about, my darling. Everything's fine now. Paul, please tell me what it is. Oh, my darling, come here. Come into my arms.  Let me see you as you are and let me look well. I want to fix your picture in my mind so I'll remember it always, always, my love, just as you are now. You'll never change for me. Paul. Paul, you're looking at me so you'll never see me again. What is it? Never see you again. Well, I'll always see you just, just like this. Oh, Paul, you're... I feel so fade, so awful. So I'm going to... Oh, help me. Don't let me fall. Alicia. Oh, I've looked too long. Alicia, I'll rest you here on this bench. I'll get you water. I'll be right back. Paul. I'll be right back. Oh, my eyes. It's so, so dark I can't see. Alicia, say something, Alicia, so I can find my way. Say something, Alicia! Is something wrong? What is it? I can't find her. Alicia, she's gone. Gone? Why, lad, she's right there, lying on that bench. Your eyes, what's happened? They're red in bloodshot. Can't you see, lad? Can't you see? I'm blind now. I'm blind. I can't harm Alicia anymore. I love her. I'll always love her. I can't see her anymore. Oh, Lord, what is this? Alicia, Alicia, wake up, child. Wake up. It's your uncle. Won't you speak any more, won't you answer? Alicia! Paul! Paul, come here! What's happened? Alicia's dead. They did it. My eyes, with their last light, they did it. How can I stay here? How can I stand this place any longer? Paul, where are you going? Paul, house! I'm going home, back to the tower. No, that way. The house is over here. Where are you going? Be careful, Paul. Turn this way, Paul. I'll always live with a picture of Alicia in my mind. Paul! Paul! Paul! Paul! Paul, you hear me? He couldn't see the kid. He fell. Oh, Alicia. Alicia, my child. From the time one pages of the past, we have brought you the story, The Evil Eye. Bellkeeper, hold the bell.


somewhere in storage in Los Angeles is a couch and on that couch is a framed calendar from October of 1982 from the Holy City Zoo and it has always been prominently displayed on my desk until I got thrown out of my house and had a move to New York but on that calendar it says Stephen Pearl presents so Wednesday night in October of 1982 and it was my first paid gig as a stand-up comedian Rebecca Irwin was running the zoo and she gave me a Wednesday night Stephen Pearl presents I was on the bill with Kurt Weldon and I have looked at that calendar until I had to put it into storage Stephen Pearl when I was starting out and you're gonna have to take this like a man Steve before you get to talk like a men's like they go like a men's when I moved to San Francisco to do comedy in 1982 Stephen Pearl and Jeremy Kramer and Robin Williams Stephen Pearl Jeremy Kramer and Robin Williams you made a decision when you were starting out you realize you were never gonna be as funny as these three guys should I keep doing it I'm never gonna be as funny as Jeremy Kramer Stephen Pearl and Robin Williams so what do I do you move to LA and you make it there they've done it to a lot of other people why can't they do it to me oh but before LA now we have to go there first let's see they make million there's out of mediocre people there that's the golden land I'll go to LA hair plugs yes that's what a ball headed poison in Hollywood it's all about a look let's see the 99 cent stores doing them in specialist I'll go there wow them I'll impress another two one with a desk and power and he'll do something with me and they did look keep laughing you dirty mock me come on make sure to care for the high schools talking about what they had for a watch today you will always have a job as long as there's someone else with talent I know let you continue I'll let you continue where well I know having fun here I know but you're right I mean it was one of these things where I thought well what else can I do I'm miserable I'm desperate I'm talking about San Francisco where you didn't get on stage unless you were respected by the high priests of comedy and I knew though and I and I knew I was never gonna be as funny as you guys and most of us decided to keep doing it but we had to put up with our own mediocrity well I think I thought when I started you know I spoke I came out here I like maybe five minutes and I don't know what what I was doing I watched guys like Robin and Bob so a lot and then we'll there's came right here in the same time and I saw him do 40 minutes I go whoa this guy's got 40 minutes though you know you just got to go through that sucky period before you get to that good period if you get to it all right so I I've never really talked to you about this stuff because I didn't like you I know you didn't why would you know how I feel about you people always changing money and lending and don't forget Franklin Graham's father that's right Franklin Graham Billy Graham's son and Billy had some choice words for the chosen people you know how those know it's one time it's the best I know every day I want to leave my bloody mark will be worse than me but in the meantime I want that this is gonna be years though this is gonna be interesting because we're not in the same room this is gonna be interesting because I feel like I can ask you some questions there's anything you want there's a 3000 mile barrier between us and I feel I know that's fucking Wyoming I feel like I can talk to you safely and ask you questions because we're not in the same room there there is there's no there's some there's some virtue to not having to make eye contact with you I give you that Johnny paycheck Charles man clean that has repelled so many no I think I feel very confident I was nervous about this because I have so much respect for you and I am I have to compliment you you're gonna have to take it like a man and I was nervous about this and I remember something about Ted Koppel speaking of care I remind a lot of people of Ted Koppel nightline if you were gonna guest on nightline he didn't want you in the studio with him so there would be people who'd come to his offices in New York and he would put them in another studio he didn't want them in the same room with him because he felt it was too intimate so I'm feeling good about this I'm feeling I can ask you some some questions that I've been wondering about for I don't know 30 some odd years okay sure and I and if you were in studio with me I don't think I'd be able to ask these questions so first of all here's the God's honest truth so I was drinking and smoking dope when I first started doing stand-up at the holy city zoo and I saw lightning bolts from God and I've mentioned this many times on the show I saw lightning bolts from God when you were on stage I could not believe what was coming out of your mouth and granted I was drunk and stoned but I was an impressionable young man who was not jaded by comedy so I was saying what regular audience member I was an audience member I was trying to do stand-up but I saw you the way anybody else saw you who wasn't a comedian I thought well there are he is I swear to God and I've said this on the show and Larry and I Larry Brown and I have talked about I always believe your comedy you were a conduit from a higher power there was oh my god I believe that I think the same thing with Robin and Jeremy you with you you could hear the crack of the thunder abstract or really good at something so I had a lot of fun up there and still still having fun all right yeah yeah so you modest man too modest you you okay so you grew up in New York City did you more long island but around the city I was in the city many plenty times here's these are questions that I've always wanted to ask you and try to answer them I saw lightning bolts coming out of Ethel's head when they were being executed they got the chair right that's right people would look at the Sun for a second when they pull that switch and happy break before it so they were innocent I'm gonna burn well they burned so they burned let me I would assume you were raised in a household like mine that petitioned to save the Rosenbergs right they did they did if I weren't about that later since they tried them you know before you were on earth but if they did they petitioned to save the Rosenbergs they were leftist Jewish progressive whatever everything the world you were raised by lefties you were a red diaper baby because you had irritable bowel syndrome now you are there you go sure you were red you were a red diaper baby and red diaper baby doctor spot baby yeah one of them left-wing commie hippie beatnik babies there is this phenomenon of Trotskyites raising conservatives there are guys like Norman Podoritz and Bill Crystal these horrible homunculi who got us into the war in Iraq their Jewish intellectuals whose parents were Trotskyites and they rejected everything their parents stood for although they're in the case of Podoritz and Bill Crystal their parents became Reagan Democrats were you did something happen where your parents were so left-wing so touchy so touchy feely that you made them laugh by defending Nixon by defending is that how is that how you got to them at dinner by oh god first I never made them laugh my family was a train wreck I had to get 3,000 miles away from like pursue my comedy dream which was so long ago I don't even remember what the dream is you never never made your mother laugh no that wasn't a while wasn't a while by saying I thought I sang so hello yeah did you did you make her laugh by saying horrible things no she didn't have much of a sense that you were she thought she did what she didn't what do you mean she thought I made I made everyone else laugh but I you know but it was no the parents I just I tried to get away from them okay and you came out to San Francisco and the first club you played was the holy city zoo I actually did comedy in New York I started as I got in May May of this year will be 40 years that's like did stand up for the very first time I did in New York a few times and I really enjoyed it even though I kill a few times and I go down the total tubes a few times what I knew I could do well cuz they had so but I wanted to live in San Francisco because I visited here in the summer of 1976 and I was 20 and I fell in love with the place and I just I want to live there I want to live there and I want to get the hell out of New York I couldn't take New York anymore so three years late 79 I came out here and I got a San Francisco paper in New York before I came out here because there was no internet then young kids there was no WSW and W look at me and showing my anus off to get my best friend by my favorite aunt and I found his one called a holy city it was just a little girl you notice there was a little bitty urine-smelling place it was packed and everyone who was going on was killing and except for one guy a guy called the berserk clerk had a hard time and started the pricing everything in the club the wall that was like the good old berserk clerk he had troubles anyway what would what would his religion be if he was pricing everything at the holy cities oh yeah to be one of that chosen try well yeah that's what here badden will take care of you people in the day of the great rope come thank you the comedy of shaggy metzger shaggy metzger come on out here he's got hot hot hot hot I got six million of them hot hot hot hot by the way Kurt Metzger is a great comedians been on the show I brought up the name Metzger nobody remembers Metzger that was whenever you said the name Metzger I always thought of the Nazi metzger now that took Tom Metzger the right supremacy guy yeah see you came at you saw the holy city zoo was always I went there and then I went on like the next week or something Tony de Paul's running and I can I kidding people I'm in my picture and I'll clean then I think the first night I was there and I was when Mike went on it would tell a joke and drink a picture of beer and tell another joke and drink a picture of tears and there was the other cafe and I just immersed myself in any place that would have me on and people for you know it Dana was going Dana Gould not Dana Gould Dana Carvey was going up then and right yeah I saw him so he was he was starting to make the transition people they roll over the place crazy people and I was one I was proud of me one of them and I remember coming at being very jealous not jealous but envious that I wasn't there at the beginning of the holy city zoo when it went from a folk club to a comedy club yeah that's that's before my time that was around 76 77 something like that Jason Cristobal remember him the candle maker of course I remember it's a bashing cabin of the zoo this was a simple man who won this simple club and bad Jason big bad Jason big beard and I and he was almost a magical creature he made candles and had a big laugh smoked a lot of and he said he's he said welcome welcome you're home you're home and it felt and Rebecca was running the place and I was so damaged and so broken and the holy city zoo was just this inviting loving place the audiences weren't always easy they weren't always easy but well you did no no but you did and the other thing I learned from the holy city zoo was how to work the entire room there were like training ground was incredible training ground there were like 12 pockets that you had to play to you could never get the right you could never get the balcony at the back corner at the other corner at the back at the front there's a little place but it was long and so you know it was almost impossible to get the entire room going right because there were so many different both that's yeah so you're living you're back you went down to LA you hung out with kennison and why would you have to why would you have to I can imagine you doing pot I know you liked pot oh I love marijuana yes but Thomas be down yeah but I can't imagine you doing cocaine what what would the point be yeah it was actually it was I wouldn't do it in public that much like take some home and just do it for a day or two and just like try to sleep it was stupid I don't know why I did it it was there that's why the same reason people climb Mount Everest there and you can't do what we you came back we go ahead okay there you go ahead now you go ahead I'll come on up smash this fucking lamp over here you go I fucking cunt I've been in this game sir you bastard you're trying to kill me you move back to the Bay Area the Bay Area is it as inviting to comedy as it used to be the impression oh god no oh god no we had you know there was we had Alex Bennett back then and the times are just right for it it's like two generations behind us they weren't even born when we started doing this doing it and there's some fun people would know it's nothing like it was and there's places to go on but I just I just didn't take LA anymore and we connected with an old girlfriend in the worst way and it's everything worked out and I'm up here so you know I can go on when I have to but much happier up you're being happy in the big red bridge yeah you can be happy in the Bay Area but I found that it turned its back on comedy it's become more of a road stop now right it's been that way for quite a while actually so it is a lot of LA it's just a road stop now you know who's looking for comedians to make it look at reality stars stuff looks like one or two comics usually some mid-act mid-level act and they give them a big break and that's it but I don't know I'm the things to do list I don't know I just I just don't well maybe for writers and stuff I don't see any stars being made my and well here's the thing the thing with San Francisco is I have family there so whenever I go back I'm visiting family and not really exploring the comedy scene I look at Los Angeles in New York there's a thriving comedy scene even the you know even the flag the non-flagship comedy clubs their little rooms that the kids start and their support of one another I would assume the same goes for San Francisco their little rooms that are popping there are there's lots of them there's lots of little rooms I go on Facebook and say you know so-and-so comedian I'll be playing here at so-and-so room on Mission Street or there's rooms you go on seven nights a week if you want it just right now I don't follow it myself I really maybe I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm just you know I'm one of the old guys now so I go on now and I mean Bob's a lot sitting in wheelchairs going well you say we show him what it's all about oh man that's a good idea we still have our hair it's a fucking miracle isn't it Bob you have more than you did you know on the old day my god I was a star in three area codes it was insane you know especially with Alex Bennett making stars and everything on the radio local stars so it's nothing like that you know especially with the internet and everything everybody can get on the air now so you know it's no powerful in New York in LA I'm just not really following because of like two generations behind me and I just rather stay home you were at one time you were enormous in San Francisco did you like that did you like being as popular and famous as yeah sure it was it wasn't like Robin where you go I'm getting off wherever you go you know but I get recognized and stuff but it was you much smaller scale and it was I guess and I was making a really good living at it and just you know it was cheap as hell to live in the city then so yeah I was thinking man it was you know what what could be wrong with this and where did you think it was gonna go because when I was starting out and I assume it the same goes for you we didn't think of an end game we just thought of trying to be funny exactly exactly want to be as funny as possible and you know see we get out funny the next guy so I I was alright get somewhere or I die trying but for most of us try as long as possible that I saw an 87 the scene was starting to die off here and Kenison Sam Kenison got me into the comedy story he forced me to watch we had a great so that's another club now there's people going on and things are happening there a little bit but it's not like it was at all back then the place that we count that you could see and I was really enjoying it for first three years and and then it just kind of filled by the way you saw it and soured up and I didn't want to be here anymore yeah the idea of getting a movie or a TV show seemed depressing and I could remember dividing the comics in San Francisco up into those who wanted something else and those who had to do stand-up I was one of those guys I know you don't believe this because I ended up becoming a writer mostly but I was one of those guys who had to do stand-up even though I wasn't good at it you know I had to do it yeah then I have to do it it's part of the exercise you know and there were 12 straight years were every night if I wasn't in a comedy club I was falling behind it was 12 years of that non-stop well in San Francisco 12 years night after night searching for that audience I'm trying to get that laugh that never came and then there were the guys and then there were the guys who were just passing through the guys who were using it for other means yeah hi my name's biff scott and I'm just doing this so I can get a job on one of those tv shows like the Brackens world and Brackens world hang on for one second well again they're remaking Brackens world and I'm up for the part of biff lifestyle Brackens world I was just thinking about that show I had dinner I'm gonna maybe we have a connection here well you know what I here's I'm gonna name drop I had dinner with Nathan Lane about a year ago and I made a reference to Brackens world and I said to him do you remember Brackens world and there's this like 10-hour pause with him staring at me he said I was a gay man in the 60s in the closet of course I know what Brackens world is featuring the late great immortal never to be forgotten forever well how do you blonde hair he was in patent yeah that's right he was a handsome pretty boy from Hollywood who ended up selling you in the state really yeah I didn't see a sign of talking to each other now I see Dennis Cole I want to talk to you Dennis Cole he was he was blonde good-looking he was one of the stars of Brackens world Brackens world also they brought in Leslie Leslie Nielsen came in at the that's right at the end and the serious actor as a serious actor and he was Bracken we never it was kind of like Charlie's Angels you never saw Charlie and you never saw Bracken until the until the ratings started to climb and it was a studio Brackens world took place it was when the it was when the studio system had died out so NBC put a show on that perpetuated the myth that there was a studio system that took young actors and actresses and trained them and dancing and sword fighting and groomed them but that period had long passed but that was the premise of Brackens world following young aspiring actors on this fictitious lot it was great it was great there's a there's a little of it on YouTube but they've never put out a DVD of it I wonder why this is the part of the interview everyone's going to speed ahead on oh yeah back to back all right best uh best piece of ass you ever got Dennis Dennis Cole former under male's underwear model and uh later pretty boy hollywood tv and uh fine citizen do you still have the largest collection of men's muscle magazines in san francisco oh well I never get rid of things that are near to my heart I remember man doesn't need to when you move to LA our biggest concern was you and your men's muscle magazines they had to go into storage we all had a haven't seen him since you borrowed him from me you said he'd have him back in a week and then then you said this page and you have to work it off in my barn we'll find your bottle of scotch with dark days in a world gone batshit crazy and I want to watch hot I want to be here when it blows into pieces how bad how badly do you hate Trump or do you are you amused I don't I don't hate him I'm just more when I when I'm listening I kind of get a little nervous and I just giggle I'm then controlled it took me like three years just going to this really happened it's like a hallucination so did this really happen no this he just kind of okay well I'll wake up tomorrow and he won't be present that'll be it but he's still it all I can say where do you get your news from he's super brie bar baby it's super right way it makes brie bar look like the left wing actually a chew it's a must bound but man how none that's right my news I you know a little we don't we're really off tv we only watch tv I just go on the internet those times I believe it sometimes I don't so you think the audience should know the truth about jews controlling the weather because of course and I'm here to tell them and I'm one of them so well why would I lie yeah I always felt that was something we weren't supposed to talk about but the judge that's right if that's true if you go to client's department store they sell controlling the right people go in there ask for slo-mo on the third floor the password is halibut halibut they'll take you in the back and you can control the weather in your county this is true I'm probably going to be a sassan and an American flag made in Korea stuck in my ass but it's worth it I want you to know the truth this is super Brevard news who is George Lincoln Rockwell you don't know I know but I want my audience to know George Lincoln World War II and Korean American and the founder of the American Nazi party in 1959 I thought that was Norman Rockwell no he painted pictures of Jewish kids stealing presents from the Christmas tree from the Christian kids they were in cahoots with each other but you said George Lincoln Rockwell was an artist is that true or I thought you were making a yes he was a very talented artist he was in fact is one of his paintings won a grand prize and some charity thing before he got into this craziness you should you should make a movie about him because he was a fascinating person he was he was like sick he was insane and the thing is he was his father was a guy named George Lovejoy Rockwell or Doc Rockwell who's a famous vaudevillian comedian who's friends and had over here's the here's the ironic part his father and shine boys at the doctor thing and uh yeah that was his bit he came out without he was the guy he invented the doctor bit and he had he was friends with like people like Jack Benny and the Marx lots of Jewish entertainers that he had his guests in his house and young George said he liked these people but somewhere along the line he became a Nazi so go figure I figure that'll do it you grow up and show this probably because Jack Benny gave him a wooden nickel and he figured all choose to and that warped the young boy's mind sure that's the ironic thing about it his father like was friends with a lot of Jewish entertainers and uh he wasn't an entertainer himself so and somewhere George kind of took this really where you go and what did he become he became a Nazi or a KKK guy no American Nazi American Nazi they did they out demonstrations and when Martin Luther King would have a march like everyone in Chicago and 66 Rockwell was there to counter demonstrate he was a not man and he was like a really good speaker too if he was a salesman he could have been a multi-millionaire if he was a so he could figure if you put that away you can have a beer with the guy no watch me get but he's a Nazi one little thing yeah did he did he fight in world war two yes he fought he was up he was a fighter pilot he was a commander he was like a war hero and then later he said I didn't know I was fighting the Nazis I realized I should have been on their side oh my god but there's a whole bunch of his speech on youtube and they're chilling because he was really good you know even I'm listening out of the man maybe he's right about the why this guy's good I understand he was scared I'm glad he got whacked he might have he might have really risen to something he was a really good speaker just listen to his speeches on youtube really even you were put on you will join the cause of the blot wow I didn't you know I knew the name I didn't know that oh he was fat he's a full scary man very scary man but was it performance art you know we're finding out that alex jones's performance art of course yeah but was he doing it just for shits and giggles or was it did he really mean it he I think he really meant it that he had he would have like so-called documentation to back up what he was saying and just listen to his speeches there's millions of them on youtube they just think he all that can't say well you know yeah his outlook was just because he's having to convince that maybe I should throw myself on the other when this guy's really good holy shit I didn't put the other one on both for two so Anton LeVay he was a scary man he was a very scary man Anton LeVay from San Francisco originally Levy right yep Levy that's right did you ever meet him did he ever come into a comedy club and who was Anton no I never met him at all I'm glad I was surprised I expected him to like walk into one of Sam Kansans parties that would have been a perfect backdrop for him but no I never met him and I don't think I'd want it and he he was what a Satanist he was a Satanist yeah the church he founded the church of Satan I believe he was also a police homicide photographer back in the 40s and 50s I once saw a videotape of some of his work and it was some gruesome shit there oh oh and he was a Jew from where I don't know where he was from I don't know much about him but he lived in San Francisco I did he I don't know I don't know I don't know I'm not I'm not an Anton LeVay expert but if you kids want to go on Wikipedia and let us know it's just it's just it's a w-w-w-dot away San Francisco I don't know I don't know why you think I would know much about a Jewish Satanist are you applying something did you know Bill Graham oh yeah well I remember I used to go to the film or East and see the shows or so I just I would talk to him very briefly there and then the film or than I did in San Francisco when I see him out here I would sell a couple of times out here I remember one night I he was one of the judges in the comedy competition then 85 or something and it was it was yeah I had a really horrendous set and yet I came in the top five because I found out later he gave me a really good score so thank you Bill wherever you are wow I never got thank you for letting me see Johnny winter in the almond brothers for five dollars low and Johnny winter how much time did you get this how much time did you get to spend with him and why is Johnny winter so important you ever hear of music yeah but I know that well there you go well from the time I knew you you were obsessed with Johnny winter he's amazing he's amazing and then we became very good friends and we hung out a lot so even the last time we had three months before he passed away I got to open a couple of shows for him and kick ass and that wasn't very nice and trying that was great Steven having an all-time hero of mine tell me that he enjoyed what I did that felt really good he was a good man he was a unique person incredible musician you told me a lot about blues and good music and we had a lot of fun a lot of laughs together so there you go you worshiped him for decades before you got to meet yeah no I I uh well I would say worshiped I dug what he did I really love what he did I used to see him all the time and in concert and then we met and he saw the videotape with me so he wanted to meet me which was cool so he was a Steven Pearl fan and I was Johnny winter fans so it was a mutual thing and for our younger listeners what is some essential listening for Johnny winter oh just go on YouTube just go on YouTube look up Johnny winter or his brother Edgar winter or he's looking both together and then you just just I'd say look at this look at a song called stranger blues that's really good from Barcelona there's a good video of that kick attack that's another good one or just write anything he did you just hear a lot of good stuff good stuff good stuff now my my imagination of your life is that you do exactly what you want to do and you get up and you consume the information and music and culture that you want to that you're just constantly taking in culture is that a fair assessment a typical Steven Pearl day is turn on the TV wake up at four in the afternoon in the dumpster somewhere swillin the rest of this cherry key off I found in the sewer there I gotta go in front of the 7-11 looking for my and pretty much I'm sorry I consider it a similar word anymore I'm too old for that I've been around the world a million and one times in Japan like five times but I like being up here I like being with my lady and my cats and my internet and a little bowl full of greenery and the internet and have fun and just you know I'll do a show and I want to do it but uh yeah how do you stay so f-ing funny I just I don't well I try not to worry about stuff and uh it's about the clunky clubbing from clutzville but it's pretty amazing how you haven't how did you haven't robin stay funny how did jimmy hendrix play guitar like I just I don't know just it's my makeup jack well people stop being funny they get bitter I try not to get bitter you know I think I just look at it number one I could have been better but the show could have been the hell of a lot worse I know people who got where they wanted to go and were miserable ended up blowing their brains out and I still got my help and even though I'm getting to see a lot of my friends die which sucks I gotta get you on with kramer let's do it have you spoken to kramer not in a long time but I'll talk to him anytime let's do it three-way darling I I've been you know uh yeah yeah he was doing my radio show in LA all the time uh yeah I know all the time it was unbelievable it was the thing and the thing with you and kramer is you guys have not aged a bit and the the speed it's you're better now than you were when I first saw you in 82 you're better now bring bring them out I'll be like the 80s with arthritis hurting joints wow Steven but no it's just it's just I don't know I am I am uh I don't mean to embarrass you I'm uh I'm I think what I'm saying right now tells you what I what I'm thinking and feeling hey how do people get in touch with you I'm on Facebook and uh I'm not gonna give you my number but uh let's uh let's say I'm on Facebook Steven Pearl of course even with a V pearl like Pearl Harbor and uh let's there you go just find me on Facebook okay is there no website I have nothing I have nothing I got zero zilch nada okay uh I'm on Facebook and uh well they can call you and you can convey the message to me I'll be like a button man yeah be a button yeah buffer a buffer I got all the fuckers here cheats the dog that was cheats right cheats how many times have you seen the godfather uh 7652 a lot of times I've seen the first number three doesn't really count number three it's like those those overdubbed beetle songs they're they're part of the anthology but they don't really count so uh give us an give us a cultural assignment tell us what we should be watching and listening to and then I'll let you go you mean godfather wise or just to whatever just in general what are you watching in general good comedians good musicians most of them are dead now but go back in the past you got many of the wealthy but he's really good uh just just check out the best of everything whether it's from the president or the past most of it's in the past and uh listen to uh let's do a lot of blues it'll keep you honest then rock a billy and uh today we're interviewing husband comedians three area codes for two weeks in the 80s he's now bitter he's at the he's at the pat cooper home for pissed off old guys


The thing that was most striking was not only the volume of refugees that were coming across all of the borders in the neighboring countries, but just the sheer lack of men, almost 90% are women and children coming across.  And I think this sense of separation and loss and the anxiety that comes with it was just, it was palpable in every single country that I visited. One of the families that I met were two sisters that were traveling with their six children. And one of them was carrying a two-month-old, a two-year-old, and had an eight-year-old. And so if you can imagine, she didn't have hands to carry any other belongings. She said she came across with a backpack, no diapers, no baby food, no winter clothes other than essentially what they were wearing. And I think a lot of people are in that similar kind of situation where they were waiting until the last minute, hoping that things would get better, hoping that they wouldn't have to flee. Some of them that I met talked about walking for five days, and it was freezing. It was snowing on half of the days that I was there along the border. So this is not by any means an easy journey to take. And even those that came by vehicle, I mean, they talked about being so scared in the cars, not wanting to turn on the lights for fear of being attacked. And then once getting to the borders, some of the borders were so backed up that they were in their vehicles in a queue for up to four or five days. We don't know the conditions of those that we will be coming across. We have reports even from among our own teams on the ground of so many people reporting to us that they're they're drinking rain water, that they're down to their absolute last stores of food. And so the people that may be coming across in the coming weeks, may be in a much more frail and weakened state than the ones who've come across in the in the first three weeks. There has been this tendency of refugee being such a negative connotation. It's almost seen as something shameful or taboo. But this crisis has shown us that absolutely anyone and in any place at any time can really become a refugee. And it's of no choice or or decision that they make on their own. It also shows us that there is the capacity for more compassionate, organized, manageable asylum across Europe and across the world. I mean, we've had offers already from the US, from Canada, from Brazil, from other countries for temporary protection and humanitarian visas for Ukrainian refugees. And what we're trying to also say is this is just as feasible for refugees from Afghanistan, from Syria, from Myanmar, from Ethiopia.