Hi everybody. Welcome to our event on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. I'm John Chorchari. I'm the co-director of the International Policy Center here at the Ford School. We're delighted you can come to join us. First, I want to thank the Center for Middle Eastern and North African Studies here at the International Institute who helped support this event. I also want to thank our administrator, Thea Rowe, for her work in organizing it. We're privileged to have two distinguished panelists who you see in front of you, Dr. Shai Feldman and Dr. Khalil Shikaki. Dr. Feldman is the Judith and Sidney Swartz director of the Crown Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Brandeis University. He's also a senior fellow and a member of the board at Harvard's Belfast Center for Science and International Affairs. He's a fifth generation Israeli and for some 28 years he was at Tel Aviv's JAPE Center for Strategic Studies, first as a senior researcher and then as the center's director. Last but not least, he was a former student of our own Bob Axelrod who supervised him at the master's level. So obviously very, very well trained. Dr. Shikaki is a professor of political science and a director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah. He's also a senior fellow at the Crown Center at Brandeis and he is a recent visiting scholar here at the University of Michigan where he spent some time last year and some of you had the privilege of getting to meet and know him then. Both are internationally recognized experts on Israeli Palestinian issues and on Middle Eastern politics more broadly. You can find more details on their impressive backgrounds in the advertisement for the session and if you haven't grabbed one already on your way in, please get one on the way out, a recent policy brief that Dr. Feldman co-authored, which is on the table just outside of those center doors. Our guests will start with some brief remarks on current developments and future prospects for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We'll then move to a conversation and a question and answer session. Bilal Baidun, who's an MPP candidate here at the Ford School, is going to help me field your questions on cards and then to ask a representative sample, Thea will walk around the audience and collect your questions on note cards. She'll also have some cards to pass out in pencils if you didn't grab one on your way in. And so, without further ado, let's please welcome Dr. Feldman and Dr. Shikaki back to Michigan. Thank you, John. Great to be back here. Great to see you, Bob. So what I thought I would do is the following. For the past 11 years, this is the 11th fall that Khalil and I, together with an Egyptian colleague, Abdel Munim Said, have been teaching a class at Brandeis on the Arab-Israeli conflict, team teaching a class on the Arab-Israeli conflict. So the students for an entire semester learn about the conflict from a team which comprises an Israeli, a Palestinian, and an Egyptian. And I think almost exactly two years ago, an effort that lasted about seven summers culminated in the translation of our experience teaching this co-teaching, team teaching this class to the publication of a textbook, the first textbook on the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict that is co-authored by a Palestinian and Egyptian and an Israeli scholar. It's called Arabs and Israelis, Conflict and Peacemaking in the Middle East. If any of you want to have a little more information about it, there are some handouts here. But the reason I mention this is because the analytical section, so this is a textbook that's written for an American university, which is to say for an American semester, for a 13-week semester, we have the book comprises of 13 chapters, and all the chapters have the same structure, which is the first third of every chapter. It's called Main Developments. It basically provides the reader with the uncontested dimensions of the history of the conflict. And it is quite surprising that the uncontested dimensions of the Arab-Israeli conflict can fill actually an entire third of a chapter for each of the periods of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Uncontested means means that Arabs and Israelis don't contest what happened during this period. And how do we know that a certain development was contested? If the three of us agreed that it happened, then it happened. The second third of every chapter is about everything that is contested. And the nice part of that is that for the second third of every chapter, you can read side by side for everything that is contested. In the history of the conflict, what was the Palestinian narrative about what happened? What was the Israeli narrative about what happened and what were broader Arab narratives about what happened? And finally, the final third of every chapter provides is the analytical part. It's called analysis. And essentially, the aim is to provide a toolbox for students to analyze the most important turning points in the history of the conflict. So the idea is to provide students the kind of toolbox that they can use a year later, three years later, and so on and so forth. So we analyze the past, but the idea is to provide a toolbox that allows students to try to understand the present and the future. The toolbox is very simple. It basically says you want to understand everything, anything important that happened in the history of the conflict. You have to answer for yourselves essentially four questions. One, what happened in the international arena that can explain what happened in the conflict? Second, what happened in the regional context in the regional arena in the Middle East at large that can explain what happened between Israelis and Palestinians and Arabs during this period? Third, what happened in the domestic politics? In the domestic politics of the main protagonists that could have been a driver for these turning points. And finally, what was the role of individual leaders in affecting these turning points? So what I thought I would do in the remaining of my opening remarks is to try to apply in very broad terms this analytical framework to get you a sense of why the Arab-Israeli conflict and particularly the Palestinian-Israeli conflict today is in such deep trouble. And I think the best way to understand this is to compare where we are today to a period that I would consider the golden era of Palestinian-Israeli peace efforts. And the golden era was 1991 to 1995. It's a golden era more broadly in Arab-Israeli peace efforts. And it was only a few days ago that Israel commemorated, noted 20 years to the assassination of the then Israeli Prime Minister, Rabin. And that assassination 20 years ago ended in a way that golden era that began in 1991. During this earliest period of 1991 to 1995, there were not one but quite a few dramatic positive developments in Arab-Israeli relations, Palestinian-Israeli relations. There was the 1991 Madrid conference, the first time that Arab states convened with Israel for the purpose of making peace in the Middle East. That launched a whole set of bilateral negotiations including Israeli-Syrian negotiations and something that everybody already forgot ever existed, a very broad, deep, multilateral set of negotiations between Israel, 13 Arab countries, and the Palestinians. Dealing with a whole set of issues involving economic development, refugees, regional security and arms control, and so on and so forth. Then of course you had the Oslo breakthrough in September 1993. And finally, the last dramatic positive in November 1994, the Israeli Jordanian peace treaty. So what allowed this golden era to take place? First of all, so now I'll try to answer for myself, help you. What happened at the global regional domestic politics and individual leaders that explained these positive breakthroughs? Essentially this is a period that followed right after the end of the Cold War, the Cold War ending with an American victory. The U.S. was able to talk about a new world order that the U.S. would lead and a new regional order that the U.S. would lead. At the regional level, you had just been through the Gulf War in which the U.S. led successfully a very broad coalition of Arab countries that included Egypt and Syria in a war to dislodge Iraq from the conquest of Iran. Led by a president, Bush 41, who knew not only how to wage war but also when to stop war. And again with an ambition to create a new regional order. And this, as I said, was a coalition that included Egypt, Saudi Arabia, even Syria. And that coalition, that victory actually also tilted the balance within the region between, say, the more moderate, the more pro-Western countries and the more militant extremist elements in the region. At the domestic level, the domestic drivers were a PLO weakened by the Gulf War, weakened by the perception that Arafat sided with Saddam Hussein. He managed to get the financial backers of the PLO angry at the PLO for seeming to have sided with Saddam Hussein. And essentially the PLO, because of that, was driven to a whole set of compromises and concessions beginning with their agreement to go to Madrid in the framework of a joint Jordanian and Palestinian delegations. And finally to accept major concessions at Oslo. Israel had to absorb a million refugees, a million immigrants from the former Soviet Union, which gave the United States huge leverage over Israeli policy. Because Israel was dependent on getting $10 billion of US government loan guarantees to be able to absorb those million immigrants. You had the effects of the first Palestinian intifada that persuaded Israelis that at the time that the occupation was not a feasible indefinite proposition, all of this led to a change in governments in Israel from Likud to labor, with labor winning the 1992 election. So the Israeli domestic scene also changed as a result of these various changes.  At the very least to some extent it was Bush 41, but more. In a real practical manner it was Jim Baker, who was the architect of this effort to create a new world order and a new regional order. And he was the one who got, he used the leverage that the US acquired. He used the leverage vis-à-vis the Arab parties like Syria and the PLO and the US leverage on Israel to get everybody to Madrid. You had leaders on the Palestinian side and on the Israeli side who had legitimacy and who could deliver. Arafat on the Palestinian side and Rabin on the Israeli side. So all the stars were aligned in the right direction. The stars on the global level, on the regional level, on the domestic politics level, and on the leadership level. None of this, none of these exist today. None of these exist today. Okay. The US, following two wars in the Middle East, two trillion dollars, doesn't have the ambition to build a new regional order. President Obama tried twice, in 2009 and 2011, 12, 13, to negotiate some deal between Israelis and the Palestinians and failed. It is extremely unlikely that Obama is going to try a third time. The region is in total disarray.  Syria no longer exists as we know it, as we knew it. Iraq no longer exists as we knew it. Libya, not exactly a pillar, no longer exists as we knew it. Yemen no longer exists as we knew it. And all the Arab countries are, without exception, consumed by the various ripple effects of the so-called Arab Spring. And so their attention is all directed internally. And the likelihood right now that they're going to roll up their sleeves in the immediate future and try to play a positive role is very, very, is very unlikely. The domestic politics, I'll say on the Israeli side, Halil will say more on the Palestinian side. The Israeli, essentially on the Israeli side, the right wing controls the agenda or determines the agenda right now. The Israeli right wing determines the agenda, in my view, not because it comprises a majority. It is able to control the agenda in Israel's case because the center and the center left of the map is paralyzed. It's at home. It's not active. It didn't change its views. It continues to support a two-state solution. But first of all, it's highly, it's very, very pessimistic about the ability to implement, to achieve a two-state solution. So even though that's still the preference, after Rabin's assassination, and Rabin's assassination was a turning point, it was the first turning point. The second in Tifada was the second turning point. So Israelis, basically those people that still believe that the two-state solution is the only solution are not active, mobilized, committed in the way that the large minority of those on the right wing that are opposed to two-state solution are. They are also paralyzed by fear. Fear that, which is based on a very simple analysis that said Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2005 and the result was Cateuchia rockets and in 2000 and the result was Cateuchia rockets from Lebanon that paralyzed the Israeli north on more than one occasion. Israel withdrew from Gaza in summer of 2005 and the result was all kinds of rockets coming from Gaza that paralyzed the Israeli south. And so the simple Israeli says, if we withdraw from the West Bank to allow Palestinian state, who guarantees that this reality is not going to replicate itself, where the center core of the country is, where the large population centers are, where 80 percent of Israel's GDP is produced. And finally, there is all this fear that results now in the last three or four years from everything going on around Israel. And when there is such turbulence, such chaos in a place as proximate as Syria. And when you're in Israel, it's a very different reality than here because everybody in Syria has cell phones and everybody in Syria documents, makes these little tiny videos and it's on YouTube and it's broadcast and rebroadcast and rebroadcast in Israel. And so you're very, very, very close to the slaughter that has already taken the lives of, I don't know what the number is now. Some people speculate as high as 300,000 in the Syrian sphere. And finally, at the individual level, there's no Rabin and there's no Arafat. There is a, I would say, a lack of courage, lack of real leadership. And again, Khalil will maybe disagree with me, but I think he won't that Abbas is not Arafat and Netanyahu is not Rabin. And so basically, if you look at all the four levels, the situation and you contrast them to the golden era of the peace process, 91-95, you know, other than sending you to the nearest pharmacy to get a bottle of Prozac, I don't have at least in this opening remarks a way of uplifting your hopes because the situation right now is probably really, really, really one of the most depressing downsides in this history of trying to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict. And so I'll stop here before it gets worse. I'm also very happy to be back. Thank you, John, for inviting us to be back here. I thought I would say something optimistic and I would have something to disagree with, but then he ends with a highly pessimistic note, so we will be competing in who is more pessimistic. Shall I focus on what he called the golden era of the peace process 20 years ago, more than 20 years ago and compare it with the current situation? I'll be doing something similar, looking at not 20 years back, but 10 years back. Basically, the way I'm going to define the current predicament that Palestinians and Israelis find themselves in is that the past 10 years, a certain status quo has emerged in Israeli-Palestinian relations. This status quo is currently being challenged. It is being challenged by the establishment itself that created that status quo. This is, however, is going to be a political confrontation. It is about to start. There's a little bit of that is starting, but my expectation is that we will witness in 2016 significant political confrontations between the establishment in the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government. And the second dimension of this challenge is the popular challenge. The confrontations in the streets, the stabbing, and the response by the Israeli army and the Israeli police and so on, the violence in other words. And this violence at this moment, it's not a major explosion of violence, but my expectation is that it will become gradually a more serious explosion in 2016. So what had happened? Why are we today, therefore, moving in this trajectory that we are more likely to find ourselves in a major Israeli-Palestinian confrontation, both political, diplomatic, and violent? And to understand why this is happening, I will take you a little bit 10 years back. 10 years ago or so, we have seen the beginnings of what became the status quo. This status quo was based on the assumption that it is in the interest of the Palestinians and the Israelis to have peace and quiet. So 10 years ago, this is the end of the Second Intifada, 2005. Both the Palestinian establishment, unlike the previous establishment and the Palestinian Authority under Arafat, at the new establishment defined the Palestinian national interest in peace and quiet terms. And this, of course, was also the definition that the Israelis very much adopted. So this element of the status quo was based, of course, on rebuilding the Palestinian security services. But it was also, and of course, allowing the Palestinian economy to prosper and the Palestinian Authority to build institutions and so on and so forth. But it was also based on two additional pillars. One is, Israel is not required to abandon any of the gains it made during the Second Intifada. Palestinian has made some gains during the Second Intifada, most importantly in Gaza, but not much in the West Bank. In fact, in the West Bank, things became much worse for the Palestinians because the Israeli army reoccupied the West Bank. The new status quo was sort of a unwritten de facto kind of status quo. The Palestinians did not explicitly agree to it, but on de facto basis they did. This new arrangement did not require the Israeli army to undo the changes it made during the years of the Second Intifada. Thirdly, the new status quo, the post Intifada status quo did not require the Israelis to implement any of their commitments under Oslo, commitments that were not implemented before the eruption of the Second Intifada. There are major elements in Oslo most importantly related to Israeli withdrawals from the West Bank and the transfer of jurisdiction from the Israeli army to the Palestinian Authority that did not take place before the eruption of the Second Intifada. These elements in Oslo were now suspended. In fact, it is even worse. Oslo began and the terms of Oslo, which were supposed to be temporary and interim in nature, now looked more like a semi-permanent deal. So this, again, these are not things that the Palestinians explicitly endorsed or negotiated with the Israelis, but these are terms that the new status quo entailed with Palestinian, if not endorsement, and in this case, I am referring to the establishment that is the leadership of the Palestinian Authority, more or less not challenging. Okay, so what made that possible helps us understand why it is no longer possible for this status quo to continue. What made that possible? Well, most importantly, Abbas, the Palestinian President. Abbas's own mindset has been a very critical element in all of this. He is a person who actually believed that violence, Palestinian violence, was very destructive to Palestinian national interests. He believed wholeheartedly that it is in the national interests of the Palestinians not only to stop the violence, but also to fight against violence along with the Israeli side. Abbas also believed that institution building for the Palestinians, most importantly, creating a strong effective police force that would have monopoly over force, arms meant that there would be no arms in the Palestinian Authority under his control other than that of the police, which meant essentially dismantling, or at least disarming, all the militias, all the armed groups that prevailed in the West Bank. Abbas's goal, therefore, was to rebuild the Palestinian Authority and to be able to achieve all of that, he was willing to engage or to resume Israeli-Palestinian security coordination. That security coordination, by the way, is the kind of evidence that the Israelis read to mean that the Palestinians are fine with the status quo, fine with the elements of the status quo that I indicated earlier. Obviously, with the Palestinians seeing it in their best interest to ensure peace and quiet, the Israelis, perhaps, felt that things are really pretty good. The status quo is pretty good. Why change it? And that, of course, then leads to this prevailing attitude that Oslo maybe is not a bad thing if it is a permanent or a more permanent thing. The second most important pillar that made it possible for this status quo to prevail was, of course, the emergence of Hamas, not only as a threat to the Israelis, but in this case, of course, most importantly, a threat to the Palestinian establishment, a threat to the Palestinian Authority itself. The threat is not just the outcome of the elections when Hamas won in 2006, although that is part of it. The more important threat is the Hamas' violent takeover of the Gaza Strip. Violently, Hamas took over Gaza from the Palestinian Authority, from President Abbas, and assumed control, unilateral control over Gaza. Abbas and Farah and the PA establishment as a whole feared that Hamas will do in the West Bank what it did in Gaza. So now, security coordination with the Israelis would even have an added value. It becomes a way of self-defense against an internal enemy. That was certainly a second very important reason why this status quo has prevailed at that time. There was also, of course, other things, very important things, including some of the things that Chai mentioned. The U.S. stepped in. Starting in 2006, we had a major U.S. push under the Bush administration. The Annapolis process started around the end of that year, so there was a revival of the peace process. Serious negotiations took place in 2008, and the international community stepped in. In one year, the international community bledged to give the Palestinian Authority $5 billion in the next three years or so. You can see the extent to which both the U.S., which up until then really has not put a lot of effort, I'm talking about the Bush administration, in investing in the Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts. All of a sudden, it's putting considerable amount of effort. And the international community, the donor community, putting a lot of money in the Palestinian Authority. There was no doubt that there was also a significant element of public endorsement, Palestinian public endorsement. You have to understand that when Arafat died in 2004 and Abbas was elected, the public perception among the Palestinians, I'm not talking about the Israelis, although we also found similar trends among the Israelis back then. This is end of 2004, early 2005. 2005 is when this status quo essentially was put in place. What was the impression of the public at that time is very, very important, particularly when we compare it to where we're today. Back then, the level of optimism about the peace process went sky high. The death of Arafat and the election of Abbas was seen by the public as an indication that peace is just a short distance away. That if Abbas can't make peace, the father of Oslo, the most moderate, the most peaceful Palestinian leader, if he can make peace, well, peace is simply impossible with Israel. The expectation, however, was Abbas will do it. And the level of optimism that we found in 2005 was simply unprecedented in those terms. But there was obviously other things that facilitated Abbas going in this direction. Most importantly, the fact that he was elected in 2005, he was elected by 63% of the popular vote. So he had tremendous legitimacy. He could do whatever he wanted to do. The public voted for him. His election campaign was based on the elements I've just described in his own mindset. So he considered the vote that he received as an endorsement of his own platform in terms of organizing relations with the state of Israel. So what happened to all of these things? Well, to begin with, of course, let me agree with Shah and what he said about where the Americans are today. After the efforts at Annapolis failed, we had a new administration and the president again attempted to get the Israelis to freeze settlements and get Palestinians to go back to the negotiations. And that effort failed. And then we have, in the second term, we had the carry mission, and that too has failed. And the reaction of the administration after the failure of the carry mission was, well, we tried at least, but I think the, Shah and I were in Washington a few days ago talking to people in the administration. My impression from these talks, Shah may disagree with me, but my impression is the administration has absolutely, definitely no interest whatsoever in putting its hand back into this thing called Palestinian-Israeli relations. They have absolutely no interest in that. And they think there is absolutely nothing there that they can do, that even if they try, they will fail. And so they do not want to try. And of course, if you look at the region, the region is really preoccupied with everything you can think of, from ISIS to their own domestic affairs. So you cannot really rely on the region to come forward and assess the Palestinians. There are a lot of people who are talking about the Arab Peace Initiative and putting it together. But the Arab world, in theory this sounds really nice, but the Arab world isn't there really to get together and try to provide a safe haven for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. But it's not just about the region. In fact, I think it is more so the domestic environment, the domestic environment both in Israel and among the Palestinians. The Israelis are still under the influence of the last decade of status quo, what I described as a status quo. And their impression about it is it's really good, no yet peace and quiet. Of course, they are now very worried about what's happening. And this could certainly generate change. We don't know when. It is not likely to be soon. And we don't know in what direction. In the past, we saw that when the threat perception is high, both Palestinians and Israelis become very, very aggressive against each other and demand revenge and violence against each other. So if the same thing is to happen here again, and if I am right and next year is going to be hell for both Israelis and Palestinians, then it's likely that this will actually lead to greater, a more hellish kind of environment. Palestinians have a problem with the man and the establishment that has created that status quo. Finally, the Palestinian public is awakened, so to speak, and basically say, who the hell put this status quo in place? Why did we accept to do this for the last 10 years? As I said, the public has something to do with that, but the public, of course, is in denial at this point. The public believes today that the leader who put this in place has no legitimacy anymore. Two-thirds, two months ago in our Moshe Sun survey, said Abbas must resign. 53% of the Palestinians said this Palestinian authority and its establishment is becoming a burden on the Palestinian people for the first time ever since the creation of the Palestinian Authority. We have a majority that defines the Palestinian Authority as a burden on the Palestinians. For the first time, we also have a majority that says the Palestinian Authority must be dismantled. The question of the PA legitimacy, therefore, is no longer a question. The Palestinian public, which fully endures early on in this last decade, that status quo I described, today is revolting against it and considering the establishment that put it in place is illegitimate. But the public is even angrier with the Israelis, of course. The public believes the two-state solution is no longer practical. Two-thirds of the Palestinian public believe the two-state solution is no longer practical. We have much greater support today for a one-state solution. There is even more in that respect than this. We have what you might call the Oslo generation. This is a socio-political development that has been taken place with us not fully really focused on it, but it is becoming very clear with the young people in the streets, university students who are confronting Israeli soldiers every day and dying every day. Last month in October, 73 Palestinians died. Many of them in confrontations like these, but, of course, others died while attempting to stab soldiers or Israeli civilians inside Israel. 12 Israelis have died during those confrontations. This Oslo generation is essentially people the age of many of the students here. 18 to 22 is the age of this particular group. The older you are, the more likely that whatever I am about to say will not apply to you. But if you are 18 to 22, living in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, then you fit the description. You are totally alienated from the political process. You consider the Palestinian Authority as illegitimate. You consider the two-state solution to be unacceptable. You're more likely, in insignificant percentages, you're more likely to believe that a one-state solution is the way to move forward. They are not driven by religion. They are not driven by support for Hamas. These are. This age group is the most secular in Palestinian society. They are the least religious in Palestinian society. They believe in violence. We had during this last decade, for the most part, with the exception of the period in which Gaza was at war with Israel, Hamas was at war with Israel during the Gaza war, with that exception, with that exception, during the last 10 years, up until two months ago, we did not have a majority of Palestinians in favor of violence. We had a majority, a strong majority against violence among all Palestinians, including among this age group of what I described as Oslo Generation. Today, males in this Oslo Generation support violence by 72%. This is unprecedented with the exception of very exceptional periods during the Second Intifada. We never had such radicalization among Palestinian youth. Where is this radicalization coming from? Well, coming from everything I've just described, of course, the lack of progress and the perception that the PA is the legitimate. But there is an additional component that makes the young, this youth group, to be more likely to be influenced by radical views. And that is their reliance on social media. For this age group, 85% of them rely, 85% rely on social media for news, on daily basis. Now compare this to those who are 50 and above, 50 and above rely on social media for news by 4%. So only 4% of 50 and above look for news in the social media. 85% of this Oslo Generation looks for news in the social media. The social media is very, very vicious, very, very poisonous, exaggerates everything. It is no doubt that this is something that will continue. People see videos of things happening almost live, and it is generating a great deal of anger, frustration, and it is driving people, and particularly the students, to come out and demonstrate. I do not anticipate that this will become a Third Intifada, at least not anytime soon. I think the escalation, what I described as an escalation, these emerging confrontations are likely to continue to escalate, but it will be gradual. It will be gradual, you know my time is probably up, have been for a while, is because on the one hand, as long as Abbas remains in charge, he will continue to oppose outright violence. There is also that threat from Hamas, it has not disappeared. So the PA, the Palestinian Authority establishment in the West Bank, still has to worry about its back and worry about Hamas, so it isn't going to be willing to completely disengage from security coordination with the Israelis, at least not soon. There is also public distrust in both the two major political forces, Farah and Hamas, which means that they are really not likely to be willing to engage directly, take orders from either side, which will mean that popular participation in all of this will not be very high. The Palestinian Police Force, the last 10 years that in fact succeed significantly, have succeeded significantly in creating a very professional Palestinian security force. This security force is not going to crumble under pressure. It is still very, very effective and it has the capacity to prevent violence in the short term. Finally, the Israeli army, unlike its behavior in the second Intifada, immediately after the eruption of the second Intifada, the Israeli army made all the mistakes you can think of. The Israeli army is doing very few mistakes this time around. The Israeli army is much smarter in dealing with the current confrontations than it has ever been in the West Bank. For these reasons, I think the escalation is likely to be gradual, and we are not likely to see a third Intifada erupting immediately. But this of course doesn't mean it won't at one point down the road. Abbas will probably become much, much weaker. The security services will be demoralized. The first time there is a major violent incident in which too many Palestinians are killed. There is no doubt that the public at this point is not being driven by major triggers, like what happened in the second Intifada with the Sharon visit to Al-Haram Sharif, the Temple Mount back in 2000. But something like this happening in the next few months could very well bring much larger popular participation. With this note, of course, I'm tempted to say let's try to do something about this situation and prevent it. I can give you some ideas about how to do that. I'm not going to do that, unless you ask about it. The reason that I want is because I doubt very much that we will succeed. I doubt very much that there is anything that can be done given the constraints, both in Israel and on the Palestinian side, and given the fact that the Americans are absent, the Arabs are absent, the Europeans are absent. Given all of this, it's highly unlikely that anything can be done to prevent this escalation from continuing. Thank you both very much. You've laid out a compelling set of arguments about how at various levels the conditions are not at all auspicious for positive progress in the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Indeed, the status quo may be under grave threat for something worse. But I do want to pick up on what Khalil ended by saying and ask you a little bit about positive potentialities. However unlikely those may be. Shai, in a conversation earlier, you described to me the idea of being a policymaker interested in making progress in this conflict as being like an entrepreneur in a bad economy. In your paper, which is outside for folks on saving the Middle East, you do prefer a few ideas on ways that this entrepreneur, a set of entrepreneurs, could try to turn around what is undisputably a tough situation. I wonder if you could share a few of those, and then I'd love also to hear Khalil's responses to some of the ideas that you would suggest. So there is one, I think there is one potential source of a positive change. I'll also share with you where the limitations are. But alongside all the negatives that we described, there is one thing that is quite interesting on the horizon. And what's interesting on the horizon is that compared to previous periods, side by side with the fact that, as I said on many levels, when you compare the situation now to what was during the golden period of the Arab-Israeli peace process, all the dimensions, all the trajectories seem to be negative. It's not quite the picture because at least in one respect, we are in a positive new era. And the positive new era is that for the first time in the history of Arab-Israeli relations, I wouldn't say the first time, but the degree of convergence between the interests of a number of Arab countries in the peace that's outside, we call these Arab countries the Concert of Arabia. The Concert of Arabia essentially consists of the monarchies. The monarchies have done, by comparison, they have weathered the storms of the Arab, the so-called Arab Spring much better than the non-monarchies. So that includes Saudi Arabia, the smaller members of the GCC, the North Morocco and so on, and Egypt, the Republic member of the Concert of Arabia, and Israel. And the convergence of interests is that all the members of the so-called Concert of Arabia, they just don't know yet that they are members of something called the Concert of Arabia, we invented it. And Israel have two sets of common challenges if not threats. One, all these countries are Sunni Arab countries, and all of them regard the rising power of Iran and its increased involvement in various parts of the region, whether it's Syria, whether it's Lebanon, whether it's Yemen, as a threat. And the second thing is that they're all threatened by the rise of terrorism, terrorism everywhere, and terrorism is everywhere in the region today. It's in Iraq, it's in Syria, it's in Lebanon, it's in Yemen, it's everywhere. And so the question is whether you could see some, and this confluence or convergence of interests has already led to unprecedented levels of cooperation between Israel and a number of Arab countries. Unprecedented level of cooperation between Israel and Jordan because there is a common threat both from ISIS and from all the threats revolving in southern Syria. There is unprecedented cooperation with Egypt over the chaos in the Sinai and everybody involved in the Sinai. And even the level of sharing intelligence with other countries in the GCC, including Saudi Arabia, is unprecedented. This is not an alliance. And it can be common alliance but to become an alliance there isn't, as far as Israel is concerned, or even to become something less than an alliance but an affiliate of the concert of Arabia, there is an entry fee. And the entry fee is that Israel accept the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 which the Saudis regard as a Saudi Peace Initiative. At least as the basis for further negotiations on resolving the Arab Israeli conflict. The point, why this is an interesting turning point is because potentially it actually provides the members of the concert of Arabia who are interested for their own reasons in even greater cooperation with Israel and who are interested in therefore Israel becoming an affiliate of this so-called concert of Arabia. It gives also them a leverage over Israel because the reality is that these threats, these challenges are common to Israel and these countries. So the question then is, number one, would the greater convergence of interest is already there, the trajectories are already there. There are two big questions here. Number one is would all the domestic Israeli constraints that I mentioned, that Khalil mentioned, allow Israel or the present Israeli government will create a situation in which the present Israeli government will respond and move in the direction of accepting the entry, what I call the entry fee. There was already a slight change in the last few months when even Netanyahu said for the first time that there are quote-unquote positive elements in the Arab Peace Initiative that's very, very far from what's necessary to, and the thing is, and the other thing that's lacking right now is, and that goes back to my opening remarks, there is no architect. There is no Jim Baker, and there's no architect in the region. There is no Sadat, there is no, there isn't anybody right now that can put the deal together. The Saudis are still sending the same signals, but the Saudis have never been architects in the region. So what I would say is that there are certain built that, aside from the bleak picture that both Khalil and I painted, there are some building blocks that provide some potential, but there are big, big, big bots here which involve the two sides, domestic scenes. In this case, the Israeli domestic scene is a big problem, and the fact that there is no Jim Baker. By the way, one thing that is not entirely accurate in what Khalil said about the US government, there is still one person in the US government that would like to see a third try, and that's the Secretary of State who seems to have endless energies and endless optimism. But the problem is that even that Secretary of State knows that he can't do that without the support of the President, without the support of the White House, and I think that Khalil's description of the skepticism. So the result is that, and Kerry, with all of his success in negotiating a deal with Iran, still is not the kind of architect that we saw Jim Baker operating at the global and regional level in the way that it has. So yes, I think that, and again, the other role that we have that I see us having, aside from analysis, analyzing the situation and my opening remarks gave you an analysis of how I see the situation, but I see our responsibilities as scholars to also think of ourselves as entrepreneurs, in this case, entrepreneurs in a very, very, very bad economy. But the thing about entrepreneurs is that they don't have a luxury, even in a very, very, very bad economy, to say, okay, you know, I'm going home, I'll come back in 10 years. Entrepreneurs look for little tiny cracks wherever they exist, and I see a crack. The problem is I still don't see the architect that will exploit the crack, but I think Khalil disagrees with me even that there is a crack. I'll talk to him. The reason I don't think there is a crack is because I think Mr. Niau thinks the Arabs need him more than he needs them, and they have to come to him unconditionally. So I don't think Mr. Niau feels he needs to give the Arabs anything for them to invite him to be part of this concert that Shai has spoken about, but more seriously, he doesn't feel that there is any pressure from within inside Israel for him to make that kind of move to the contrary. As Shai said, the Israelis do not trust the Palestinians. They don't believe there is a Palestinian partner. So they don't think their prime minister is failing to pursue peace with the Palestinians. They don't think the problem is on the Israeli side. They think the problem is on the Palestinian side. And because of that, Netanyahu's future is assured as the next prime minister. He wants to be the next prime minister, and as long as he doesn't make mistakes and he can begin to make mistakes, the minute he decides to pay a price for entering this concert, because he then immediately loses the right, which means he will have a completely different government. And then that also raises questions about him being prime minister the next time around when there is elections the next time around. And the right might not trust him to lead them the next time. And of course, the left is not going to trust him to lead them or the center. And so it is safer. If you aren't Netanyahu, it is safer for you to do nothing. If the Arabs need you, fine, you will work with them, but without having to pay a price on the Palestinian file, where his constituency would punish him severely if he is to try to do anything there. So, however, one can, if you are able to change Netanyahu's calculus, if you are to actually convince him that his future's prime minister is threatened, he might change his mind. He is a pragmatist after all. He is a partly ideologue, but I think pragmatism would most likely prevail if he feels that there is pressure. Where would that pressure come from? Not domestically. It's not going to come from the Israeli public, as I said. Is the U.S. administration, for example, a good place to look for pressure after the Iran deal? The U.S. putting further pressure on Netanyahu? Are you kidding? It's not going to happen. So I don't see Netanyahu being convinced that he needs to move on the Palestinian file. And I think he also probably believed, and I think Shah indicated that, that given all the turmoil in the region, it is time for Israel not to take risks, to stay put, do nothing, to keep control over the land and maintain the status quo as much as possible until things clarify, which could take 5, 10, 20 years. But during that time, Israel should not take any risks. So I do not see change coming from that direction. I can see things changing on the Palestinian side, if there is a potential for change, assuming that what I just said about Netanyahu is inaccurate, assuming I am absolutely wrong that Netanyahu, about Netanyahu and the U.S. administration, and about Netanyahu's being willing to make a deal with the abs and actually make concessions on the Palestinian question, there is still the Palestinian issue. The Palestinians would not be ready if today, for him, if he is ready tomorrow. And so there has to be changes on the Palestinian side. The Palestinian Authority needs to regain legitimacy and cannot do that without reunifying the US Bank and Gaza without going to elections. This is something that I think is doable. It is not going to be doable without a strong motivation to do that. I think if there is a potential for progress in the peace process, this could be that motivation. I think the U.S., I do not expect that administration to put on a kind of leverage on either the Palestinians or the Israelis to move on the peace process. But the U.S. can do small things like promoting, articulating its own position. I think Obama can and should articulate the U.S. views with regard to how the U.S. sees this conflict eventually resolved, articulating position with regard to all the elements of the conflict, perhaps even taking the West Side further and going to the UN Security Council with that, with an outline, blueprints for resolving the conflict, getting an international consensus with the Europeans and the Russians and the Chinese and everyone endorsing it and perhaps even giving, getting some Arab, major Arab players to endorse that vision. I doubt very much that the U.S. will do that. But this is a suggestion that I think would make a difference again assuming that on the Israeli side there will be receptivity. If Obama believes that Netanyahu is going to say absolutely not, he will not do it. He is not, I believe, at this point ready to confront Netanyahu in anything. There is the question of succession within the Palestinian Authority. I think our bias has become too weak and lacking illegitimacy. And I think that the Palestinian side need to consider the question of succession and to work on that. And I think there is a possibility for our bias to play a constructive role with the succession process. I think it is not going to be easy. It's going to be very, very difficult. The only Palestinian figure today that has the kind of consensus that would be required to endorse a grand design for a peace agreement with Israel is Marwan Barouthi, but he is the most popular Palestinian leader today. And he can win in any elections against any coalition against him, including a very strong Hamas would still lose if Barouthi is leading the nationalist camp. And I think in this case any attempt to change the domestic setup on the Palestinian side must include thinking about the role of Barouthi in that design. Thank you. My name is Bilal Beydoun. I'm a first year master's candidate here at the Ford School. And we'll use the remainder of our time to take questions from the audience. So both of you touched upon the importance of the regional sphere of analysis and thinking about this conflict. So I'm wondering if you can comment on the Saudi, how the Saudi Iranian rivalry alters the Arab Israeli conflict moving forward. The short answer is it's complicated. It's complicated because on one hand as I said the perception of Iran as a threat provides a common denominator between Israel and some of the most important Sunni Arab countries, especially the countries that are Sunni that are still countries like Egypt, like Saudi Arabia, Jordan. It's complicated, however, by the rise of ISIS. The rise of ISIS complicates things very much because ISIS is also a threat to to the very same Sunni Arab countries, but it's also a threat to Iran. Which makes the whole issue of Syria much more complicated. And it also is a complicating factor as far as Israel is concerned because now Israel has two different enemies, threats, that are actually fighting one another. And so the maneuvering within this new environment is very complicated. And again, if you were taking what Khalil said accurately that this new regional environment is one that has so far been tolerable for Israel, it's been tolerable for Israel partly because on that realm in this sphere, which is the regional sphere, in contrast to my assessment about where the policy, the current policies of Israel is leading. And as you could gather from what I said, I don't think that the present policies of my country is leading in a positive direction for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but aside from that, Israel has actually maneuvered, I would say, relatively successfully in these very turbulent waters of the region. It actually made very few mistakes. Netanyahu himself has actually made very few mistakes in both dealing with the threats from the Sinai, from the Egyptian direction, and also the threats in Syria. And these threats are very immediate. They are in very close proximity. The Syrian sphere alone in the last four years presented a menu of put thousands of options for making monumentally big mistakes. And actually Israel resisted the temptation to make mistakes. And as a result of that is kind of largely stayed out. And now it has to face a much more complicated new reality where ISIS presents a much bigger threat side by side with Iran with a much greater degree of at least political, potentially military and political involvement of Russia in the story and so on and so forth. So that's the reality. The reality is that Iran on one hand provides a certain potentially unifying factor in Israeli Arab relations, Israel's relations with Sunni Arab countries, as I mentioned earlier. But I would say at least in the near and maybe medium term, as long as the region has not found a way to deal with this new phenomena called ISIS, the calculations of every one of the central players is very, very complicated. And here again, what we see with respect to, in a way, designing or reconfiguring the region to deal with these new threats, you see once again the absence of an architect. There is no architect. There are pieces of policies, but that's not a strategy and the lack of strategies because there is a lack of an architect. And so I think for the, and that feeds into again what Khalil said, which is, you know, right now the mood therefore is basically risk management. It's, people are not thinking of solving anything. People are thinking of how to manage the risks. And as Khalil indicated correctly, the instinct of the Israeli government right now in the face of all these challenges of everybody almost fighting everybody is to hunker down and not do anything that involves the measure of risk. And unfortunately, that's also a recipe for paralysis. I don't have much to add to that except just to emphasize that I don't see the Saudi-Uranian conflict providing the kind of opportunity, a window of opportunity for Israel to be integrated into the region, finding ways to deal with a common threat and so on. Israel hopes that it can do that, as I said, without having to change its policy vis-a-vis the Palestinians. And at this moment, I don't see the Saudis having any kind of leverage on the Israelis to do that. And I think although the Americans have not been forthcoming for the Saudis, I think the Saudis continue to believe that they can still rely on the Americans rather than on the Israelis, and that their relationship with Israel can remain underground, not above ground, and that with that kind of balance, they will be able to manage the threat of Iran. If we're looking for small things to disagree about, I actually think that on one count, I think Khalil is wrong. I don't think that Netanyahu believes that these countries will come to Israel, well, as I said, they have come closer to Israel at a certain level. But I don't think it's the case that Khalil believes that Netanyahu believes that you could have something that resembles more an alliance without Israel paying the entry fee. He's very realistic. So the issue is not that he is under some kind of illusion that the Saudis and the others and so on don't really care, and therefore that they could have this kind of an alliance without Israel paying a price in what Khalil called the Palestinian file. I don't think that that's the case. I think that Netanyahu is very realistic about it. The problem with Netanyahu is different. The problem with Netanyahu is because of his reading of the Israeli domestic scene, he's not willing to pay the entry fee.  The threat is so great. We're willing to have an alliance without you paying the entry fee. It's not going to happen, and he knows it's not going to happen. Thank you. Next question is, how would you assess the BDS movement or the emergence of the BDS movement, which stands for boycott, divestment, and sanctions as a tactical response on the part of Palestinians to the current impasse? There is no doubt that among Palestinians there's strong support for boycotting Israeli products, and we will see significant move in that direction next year. I believe the relations, Palestinian-Israeli relations will be moving very closely to what the BDS movement is currently advocating. Within the circles of Palestinians who advocate a one-state solution, there is much greater support we find for BDS than among Palestinians who advocate a two-state solution. The one-staters who are becoming a major political force in terms of at least their sheer numbers, almost one-third of the Palestinians today advocate a one-state solution, and BDS is viewed by those as the most effective means. Until recently, we now also have violence being added to the list, but there is a belief among the one-staters that a BDS movement essentially doing what was done in the South African case would be the most effective means of addressing the one-state reality that they believe is emerging and that is characterized by a great deal of upper tide policies. The two-staters, among Palestinians, the two-staters do not fully buy into that. There is a strong belief that a two-state solution would create two states that would interact with each other, that they would live in peace, security, and cooperation with extensive economic relationship and with tremendous amount of cross-border relations and joint ventures and so on. And therefore, the BDS is seen as a tactical tool, but is not given a significant, there isn't a belief that it would be effective in addressing the major concerns of the Palestinians. Internationally, I doubt very much that the BDS movement will have the kind of clout that happened in the South African case until the conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis become similar to the conflict in South Africa. As long as the conflict remains one struggle for independence and sovereignty for Palestinians, I think the impact will be much more limited. Thank you. Our next question is regarding recent news or speculation that Israel may try to change the status quo vis-a-vis the Temple Mount. And so, the question is, if you can comment on Israel's effort to actually do that and how this affects the escalation of violence or how has it affected the escalation of violence thus far? Well, I would say just two things. Number one, in terms of the rumors, it has already affected. The rumors have played a major role in and also explain why we've seen much more of the violence in Jerusalem than in the West Bank. Other elements have to do with, so Khalil mentioned the reaction of the Israeli Defense Forces. And that's another explanation that has to do with that, because the Israeli Defense Forces, Khalil gave them very high grades for not making major mistakes, they're effective in the West Bank. The Israeli Defense Forces have no impact whatsoever in Jerusalem, because Jerusalem is part of Israel and therefore all law enforcement in Jerusalem is done only by the police. And police is not always as careful and as sophisticated as the Defense Forces. I think that what we've seen in the last few weeks is that Netanyahu understands the Israeli government and put it this way. Netanyahu, as Prime Minister, understands the toxic potential of any rumors that Israel intends to change the status quo in Jerusalem and has made every effort in the last two weeks to send all the signals possible that Israel has no intentions in changing the status quo. However, he has a problem and the problem is that he relies on a very, very, very, very, very narrow coalition. He's not been willing, as Khalil explained, to take the risks that are involved in changing the nature of his coalition. He could. There are parties that are right now in opposition that would be willing to join the government if Netanyahu is willing to commit to change direction of policy towards an accommodation with the Palestinians. None of these parties can afford, especially not the Zionist camp, especially not labor, they cannot afford to join the government without a change in the direction of the policy. Netanyahu is afraid that they will double cross him. But the reality is that because of that, because of his very, very narrow right-wing coalition, every minister in this government believes that he can formulate policy. And the result of that is that some ministers and some deputy ministers have said all kinds of things that have given some credence to this rumor that Israel is about to change the status quo in Jerusalem. And he's battling this, but again is constrained by the domestic composition of Israeli politics at the moment. Thank you. It looks like we have time for one more brief question. And so for the final question, we'll focus in on Gaza. And the question is, given that Hamas has acted as an antagonist at various times to both Israel and the PA, can a peace agreement happen so long as Hamas controls Gaza? The answer is, of course, yes, you can have a peace agreement. And Hamas will probably oppose it and might in fact also use violence to try and sabotage any effort to reach one and if one is reached to sabotage the implementation. However, if the peace agreement is accompanied by steps along the line of what I described, such as efforts to reconcile Farah and Hamas, such as the reunification of the West Bank and Gaza, and the reintegration of Hamas into the Palestinian political process, I think this would go a long way in mitigating the consequences of such dynamics that I described earlier. I would just add to that that the whole Israeli attitude towards Hamas and Gaza is another indication of just how more complicated this region has become. Because actually I think there is a majority of opinion today in the Israeli defense community that Israel should resist anything that would threaten Hamas's ability to continue to control Gaza. Because the Israeli, there is a very strong view in the Israeli defense community that all the alternatives to Hamas and Gaza are worse. And that creates a limitation also in terms of how you deal with Hamas. So in a way, that's another component of the so-called status quo that Khalil mentioned. I mean, I personally have an aversion to the use of the word status quo because nothing is status in the Middle East. But it is true that Hamas is a component of in this larger equation. And you see this complicating factor because right now who would have believed that you would have a situation where you'd have an Egyptian government and leadership that has a more, let's say more negative and less pragmatic views with respect to Hamas than Israel. So all I can say is welcome to the New Middle East. On that note, we've run out of time, but I'd like everybody to join me in thanking Dr. Shikaki and Dr. Feldman for sharing their insights and expertise.


To begin with, as I said, the day is full packed in this session. A lot of demos that you guys really would love to. And it will help your learning as well as using those technologies in your day-to-day work as well. So to begin with, we have Burr. You have heard him in the morning. He is the director of product management and a very awesome guy. He's going to start right now with GitHub with ArgoCity. Burr, all yours. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Pretend like you didn't see me before. Yay! This Burr guy is here. I'm kidding. I am very sleep deprived, so I got to stay on, otherwise I fall off, if you don't know what I mean. And be careful with that spot in the middle. That's where the internet comes into the building. You guys got to control the wire over there. OK, we're going to talk about this thing called GitOps. And GitOps, of course, is kind of one of those happening powerful, everyone's got to do it kind of moments. Don't you love that about the tech industry? Everyone was doing microservices five years ago, and now you're like, microservices. That's old stuff. And actually, you guys know about the Gartner hype cycle? You should be familiar with the Gartner hype cycle. It basically tracks when things are all hype and buzzy and all that.  And then it comes out to the plateau of productivity. Well, microservices just graduated through the trough last month. So now we're going to all be doing microservices and not talking about it anymore. Isn't that cool? That's basically what happens.  Then you just do it and stop talking about it. And every technology goes through that cycle. Eat some, go through it quickly. Like, Kubernetes kind of flew through it, right? I'm not even sure if it ever had a trough of disillusionment that anyone really noticed. But other things, like maybe relational databases, I remember when it went through that, you go through, everyone's got to do a relational database.  Oh, everyone's just doing relational database. So we're going to be talking about GitOps, which is going to fall in that category. Here's one tricky bit with GitOps, though, to get your head around. This principle, this technique, it's actually a technique, kind of like DevOps is a set of principles and techniques more than any technology. In this case, for GitOps, it's a technique. But it's only really available in the Kubernetes ecosystem because that's where it's been implemented. There's two different projects that implement it, one called Argo CD and one called Flux. So you might run into GitOps via Flux, you might run into GitOps via Argo CD. There's also something we call Advanced Cluster Management at Red Hat. You might have seen it, Advanced Cluster Management. It also has a GitOps feature, too, because once you understand the basics of the GitOps feature, it's really straightforward. So we're going to talk about that. But one thing I want to kind of do is just give you a quick kind of, let's see what I can do here kind of on the fly. I didn't plan for this, but I want to just discuss it briefly. So if I come over here and say, Git pods, right? So I'm talking to my database, let's just make this window bigger here, okay? So I'm talking to my database, sorry, whoo, not awake. I'm talking to my namespace in my Kubernetes cluster. You can see here, I have a bunch of interesting things running, I have an infinite span running. So that turbine application, when you're pounding on it or shaking it, it's shooting the data right over to the server. The server is in this case has Kafka and Kafka is three Kafka brokers with three Zookeepers. That's a production grade Kafka, right? So Kafka is receiving that stream of data and Finispan is collecting the leaderboard data. That's where it's getting aggregated so the leaderboard can get updated. And of course there's this windmill application. So this application is these five pods running right here. So in most cases, you will run an application pod with two or three or four, so you can just kind of load balance, right?  So my application pod is this one right here. And we just decided to pick five. We could handle, I don't know how many people tried this morning, was it 200 people, 300 people? So you can handle 200 or 300 people just jamming transactions at you pretty fast. Probably could have done that with two pods. But we have five. It doesn't cost you much to run a couple extras because this is Quarkus and Quarkus is very small. So Quarkus based app is a Java app, but Java, this in case is a small Java application. But you can see what that's the application, that's the back end. I said Cube CTL get pods because what we do in a Kubernetes world is we stick all the containers in a pod. And you can actually tell how many containers are in a pod with this one slash one. So this is important because what you'll see in a little bit is some of these are different. See the three by three there? Three containers in a pod. When we run Tecton, you'll see like one or two or two or three. So sometimes you can have more than one Linux container in a pod and that's just something Kubernetes has always had. That's actually why they use the word pod instead of container. You can have more than one container in a pod. You don't normally, okay, so by default you can mentally think one container image, one pod, but there are special situations that are interesting that you'll see in Istio, you'll see it with Knative. If you were here three years ago, we showed you Knative, Istio and Tecton. This year we're kind of focusing on some different technologies for this event. Okay, so just be aware of that. And there's another thing that's super important. Let me just try this real quick. OC New Project, let's call it Burr. If I did that right, okay. Kubernetes, let's see here. I'm going to be in the Burr. Yeah, I'm in the Burr namespace now, so I have a Burr namespace. Okay, if I say kubectl get pods, there should be no pods in that namespace. kubectl get all. There should be nothing really in that namespace. It's an empty namespace I just created. So this concept of namespace in Kubernetes is like a folder. So get all, it can take a little while because it's searching for everything that might be in there. So I just created an empty folder within my Kubernetes cluster, and now I can put stuff in it, okay? So one key element to understand about Kubernetes, if I say kubectl get CRDs, grew up Kafka, have you folks heard of CRDs, custom resource definitions? So what this means is you can actually define custom types for our Kubernetes system. In other words, you can decide you want beer, pizza, right? Paneer, it doesn't matter what it is, aloha, you know? I love you. Any type you can create, like for a database, you can create a type in the Kubernetes world too. The tricky, the difference is when you create a type here, you also need to provide a controller that reacts to that type. So if you decide I want an aloha type, you would build a controller, and you can build that controller in multiple programming languages, though it's common to build it in Go because Kubernetes is written in the Go language, but there's Python controllers, Java controllers, et cetera, JavaScript controllers. And then every time the system sees a new aloha, you might respond, logging out the word aloha, welcome to Hawaii, right? That your controller does what it will with that data type, okay? So this one is called Kafka. That's like the Apache Kafka broker. And what's so powerful about that is I can come over here and let's say I want to basically send in a Kafka broker. So I'm gonna say QCTL get Kafka's, so there are no Kafka's up my sleeve at this moment, but I can paste this in, and I can say QCTL get Kafka's now, and we have a Kafka, my cluster coming online, and if I say watch, QCTL get pods. Basically the Kafka controller will take that declaration, that request for a Kafka object, Kafka custom resource, a CR, and it's going to make it a real live Kafka broker that's ready for production.  You can basically override the service behavior, that's what Istio and Knative are doing, and you can override these custom types to do what you will. So we did this with Kafka, and now I have a nice, it's not fully running yet, but I have a full production ready Kafka in my namespace now. And I did that through this concept of a declaration. All I did was throw YAML at it. That was it. And the reason that's so important to understand is that's how the rest of the magic works in the Kubernetes ecosystem. So when you see Argo CD and this thing called GitOps, all it's doing is going, is the YAML that I have in my cluster different than the YAML in my Git repo? That's it. That's the whole magic trick, right? And it's kind of a cool magic trick. Because it's declarative in the cluster, it can basically say, is my YAML different here from there? If it's different, sync it. And that's all it is. And when it does that, it does look like magic. It looks like you just deployed applications, in my case, all around the globe, with a simple Git push, because that's what it is. Just Git push. You've changed the YAML in the Git repo. It's gonna find those objects in memory and fix them there. So that's the beautiful thing. And to understand this a little bit better, so I can say QCTL Git Kafka is now, right? And I can say QCTL edit Kafka, my cluster. I can come in here and edit it. And in this case, it's gonna open it up in Visual Studio Code. And so let's say I don't really want the, I have the three replicas. Let's say I want the one replica of Zookeeper, and one replica, so I don't want high availability anymore. I want something cheap and fast. I'm gonna hit save there. I'm gonna close that. And by the way, I've tried this before. I thought I'd try it live with an audience. Let's see what happens here. All right, and see, it's starting to terminate one of my Zookeepers there. And I think I changed the Kafka one too. There we go. So I'm now saving memory and CPU. It's no longer highly available, but maybe this is the only Kafka I need. But what I did was the key part. I can basically say, hey cluster, give me the YAML, let me change it on the fly, send it back. That's what Argo is gonna do, right? It's gonna look at the Git repo and sync it up. Yes? In this case, there was no Git. I literally edited the live object from the database, right? So, etcd is the database in this case. I went to the API, said give me the live object out of the database from the live cluster. By the way, you'd never do this in production, right? But it's great for training purposes and great for development purposes. And okay, so we have that now. And so let's just, by the way, and if I decide I don't want this anymore, I'm gonna do a QCTL delete Kafka by cluster. Okay, so I'm just gonna clean that up, save that memory. Well, in that case, there was no Argo CD. That was Burr doing all the manual changes. And Argo CD does something very similar. It edits the YAML for you. I did it manually. Yeah. Okay, so let's kind of get into this and we'll talk about it. We did that already. So we're gonna talk about what is GitOps, the techniques, the technologies, and then Argo CD and walk you through some examples. So GitOps really is nothing more than a principle, a technique, right? It's a technique. Just keep that in mind. DevOps, of course, is the key to meet the insatiable demand for delivering quality applications rapidly. The point here is what we made in the earlier presentation. It's Dev and Ops working together to build better software ever faster. And of course, when I say Dev and Ops, I mean the security team and the architecture team and the project management team and the product management team. You know, there's project management and product management. All of the above have to play nice here. UX, program people, because we wanna build better software ever faster. And so when it comes to CI CD, CI continues integration. Well, that's where some like Tecton comes into play or Jenkins or some other tool, GitHub Actions. And then CD, that's where something like Argo comes into play. So Argo helps you get an application distributed. Tecton helps you get an application built. Now Tecton can also do both, right? It's a generic workflow engine. You can do what you want with Tecton, but Argo has a very nice CD solution. So put CI with Tecton, okay? And then CD with Argo.  Think of that as your continuous integration. The release in this case is an image to an image repository. So in the case of a Docker build or Kubernetes apply-f, right? There's always this image that we're carrying around with us, right? It's the Linux container image and you gotta release that container image to a repo of some sort so you can go look at it later. And then you gotta deploy. And the deploy to stage, deploy to prod, that's where your continuous delivery and Argo CD does the deploy, right?  So GitOps basically means the Git is the source of truth. Put everything in Git, right? So all your operational stuff goes in Git also. Your operational stuff might be your Ansible playbooks. It might be your Bash shell scripts. It might be your PowerShell scripts. It might be your Argo CD declarations and those operational things go into Git repo. And the good news is, if someone actually has an accident and I actually saw this happen, someone had a car accident and they were the only people who knew how to make changes to the system. They were out of work for four weeks. They actually could not release any software for four solid weeks because that person had all the scripts on their hard drive and never checked into the Git and never wrote any documentation on how to do an update to the system. Has anyone experienced anything like that before? Right? Yeah, so it happens, right? And it wasn't a car accident though, but it was just, yeah. So put everything in Git, treat everything as code, okay? And then operations through Git workflows. Do your operations through some form of automation that comes from a Git repo as the source of truth. So automation and Git as the source of truth. So it's also a developer-centric approach though. Developers like Argo CD because they can now say, hey, with this little bit of change to my Git repo, and you saw it earlier in the earlier presentation, all I did was a Git push and it rolled all the way out. As a developer, that's awesome. I didn't have to do anything. All the checks and balances were checked and everything just automated. If anything was bad, it would have failed, but it was clean. I didn't make any bad code changes. I didn't introduce any major CVEs. And it just works. So people really like this concept of Git because Git is something you already know how to use. It's a tool you already know how to use and version control is a good thing. And I say that because some of you might remember when we used to use version control where I would bundle up the code on my system and email it to you and with a subject line of 1.0, that used to be our version control system. Anybody used to do that? Yeah? And then you would email it back 1.1 after you made a change? Yeah, some of you think it looking at me like I'm crazy, but some of you old timers know what I'm talking about. That was version control, literally an email. Okay, so version control is a good thing. You want to review changes beforehand, detect configuration drift. And one of the things Argo CD does is it does drift detection automatically for you. So the Git is a source of truth. If what changes in production does not match Git, it goes back to Git and gets the source of truth. And so you can try to hack it and it will respond the way Kubernetes responds, but then it fixes itself. Like all things in Kubernetes itself, healing, right? So that's the other nice thing about Kubernetes and account Argo CD works. You also want to think about your visibility and audit trail because everything is in Git. You know who changed what? There's your audit trail. Someone changed those files. It was Burr who changed those files. Now I know who to yell at when things break or sue if I need to sue somebody or fire, fire somebody. Everybody loves that, right? Auditability, right? You want to know who to fire. What throat to choke? Multi-cluster consistency. Argo CD works across many clusters. I deployed earlier to one cluster. What I'll show you next is I'll deploy this recluster simultaneously, okay? So it is about having a source Git repo based on your CAI engine kicks in. It creates the image in the image registry, okay? Then there's a configuration repo. This is, think of this as your Argo CD GitOps repo. And that basically makes a little update here. And then the CD system pushes it out to the production environment, okay? So let's actually, let's move along here before we run out of time. So it's all fully declarative. The declarative aspect of it is related to that YAML thing I showed you earlier, right? Because it sees everything in the YAML world, it can fix the YAML changes that have to be made. I did it manually. Argo CD does it automatically. All right? Let's see here. Yeah, this is all easy stuff. We'll go play with these things. What I wanna show you is this example, okay? Let's do this one more time. See where it says aloha right here? Let's kinda walk you through this one more time. So earlier, I made a code change. And okay, there, there. And I made a change right here where it says aloha. And let's go make this bonjour at this point, right? Make it French. And so this is just a little polling endpoint so I know that stuff is happening. So the actual application does a ton of stuff. I'm just simply updating one little endpoint and I have a polar. So I just know when the rolling upgrade happens. That's all that is. That's what happens there. And then if you want to enable the shaking thing again, I can say true here, all right? Inside the app. But I made, all I did was make two code changes. So git status, right? There's my two code changes. I can git diff, right? And see what they are. So I'm sort of doing main and web and then source and config, right? See, I enabled shaking false to true. And I can do a git commit. And, you know, made it true. And I can do a git push. All right, so here's the magic trick. The git push goes to GitHub, right? So it goes from my laptop out to GitHub and then a web hook triggers the tecton pipeline. So let's actually go look at that. So over here, here, OK. So right here, you can see this pipeline should be running now. So there's a pipeline running. And it's called a pipeline run, a PLR, pipeline run. So in this repository or in this cluster, QCTL gets CRDs, remember? Grip pipelines. You have this concept of pipeline objects, just like we have Kafka objects. We have pipeline runs also. And we also have something called tasks. And those are all tasks or part of pipelines, obviously. And so those guys make up this thing called tecton. So just like we can declaratively create Kafka's, we can declaratively create pipelines. And so the pipeline is now executing. And so if I say QCTL get pods now, we will see there's the 01 completed. So that's the git clone pod. So the first thing it has to do is git clone. That's how you do a build, git clone. Then it's doing a maven build. And it says not ready, but let's look at it again. OK, it's still not ready. It takes a little while to do maven build. Let's go look at it here inside the user interface. So easier to look at with a GUI. There we go. It's doing the maven build. If you're familiar with maven, you're used to downloading the internet, waiting for a while with maven. But it's going to go through that process, right? It's going to go through the process of git clone, maven build, build it build. You saw a builder earlier. That's the image build. It's going to push the image out to Quay.io. So right here where it says three hours, we're going to see that get updated. And then once that build-to-build gets updated and goes out to Quay.io with the image, it's going to do one final tweak to a GitOps repo. It's going to come out here and update this little digest with the latest image tag. So it knows, ah, something changed.  Hey, something has changed. Sync your production runtime with what you see in this Git repo. So as simple as that, even though it's kind of complicated, I realized that. There are a lot of moving parts here. But it's kind of a cool technology, right? It's kind of the way it works. So let's actually go back to the slides, though, because I do have another way to describe this. Let's see here. So that's the app. And actually, the nature of the app, by the way, is, again, it basically had that client that you guys were playing earlier. So you assign a player name, and you assign a team, if you remember, there was blue versus yellow. And then you increment the cluster counter, right? So basically, you go into an infinite span and say, I've got a new player. And that Quarkus application is what is when you're pounding on it, it's generating a REST connection, or REST command, into the Quarkus. That sends the power event, right? Remember, it goes into Kafka. So every tap is going into Kafka, or every shake is going into Kafka. And of course, it's going back to the Quarkus application to update that dashboard, right? And that's using SSE, server-side events. So all that was happening. You guys were tapping, and the real-time cars were moving, and the leaderboard was updating. That's what that application does. But we're not here to talk about the application. We're here to talk about how to roll out the application. So it basically starts with GitHub and a Git push. And of course, this is what we're sitting in the middle here. We have Kubernetes based on OpenShift, Tecton and Argo there in the middle. A webhook gets triggered. So the webhook, just so you know, is right over here. Not that one. Let's see here. Where to go, where to go, where to go. I always get the wrong window. So here, and if I go to Settings and Webhooks, see that webhook right there? That webhook is basically just an HTTP call to basically say, Tecton, something changed. That's all it is. Something changed. That's what got this Tecton rolling over here. See how the Tecton is moving now? And now what it's going to be waiting for is for Argo CD to realize there's a change. So Argo CD is just chilling over here. And by default, Argo CD only looks at the Git repo by every three minutes. That's the default. If you wanted to go faster than that, if you remember what I did earlier, is I clicked the button. So Argo, something did change. But if we just wait about three minutes, you'll see my little aloha over here change. Looks like I'm a little scrolled off screen here. So let's just let it wait. Let it wait. And we'll come back and look at it. So here, and here. Not that one, this one. So we're going to just wait for that to happen. But the webhook you just saw, that does the Git clone. It does the Maven package. It does the Builder. That's what Tecton is doing. It also pushes the image to Red Hat Quay I.O. So let's go look at that. So here is Quay I.O. Where'd it go? Not that one. Oh, I'm in the wrong thing. I keep forgetting that I'm in one window of slides. Steve, by the way, Steve Bongeur rolling out over there. It's rolling out. We spent three minutes. But let's go here. Yep, over here. So here's Quay I.O. See where it says three hours ago? Let's hit Refresh. And it's going to say three minutes ago. And remember, three minutes was the magic number. And then here, there's this little tag right there. See 555DC7. Over here, let's hit Refresh here. And there's the 555DC7. So it's a simple trick. But all it's doing is saying, OK, we got the image out there. The image has a unique identifier. Let's update that in this Git repo. You can see the images right here. And now, Argo is going to do its thing. So Argo has realized something has changed. And it's already figured that out. And you can kind of see, yeah, we're all Bongeur now. So the rolling update occurs because Argo sees the world is different from what it sees in the Git repo. So it's a very simple concept. But it's insanely powerful if you think about it. Everything is now in Git. And everything is now automated. And it does all kinds of other drift detection and checks and balances. Like I said, if I go in there and hack on it, if it sees the world has changed, I don't know if we can try that real quick. So kubectl edit deployment. Well, Git deployment. Let's see if we can abuse it a little bit and see what happens here. All right, so there's the Quinoa wind turbine, kubectl edit deployment. And that, it's more fun if we do some live hacking. See where it says replicas5? Let's make it replicas2. Hit save and close. All right, kubectl get pods. Let's see what happens here. And OK, so yeah, two of them got shut down. But you notice there's two more coming right back to life. So we almost kept them offline for a little while, but they come right back. So this, again, kind of is a Kubernetes principle. But in this case, it sees that the world does not match what was in Git. So it fixes it. So that's pretty awesome. I want to show you a couple of other things. And we're going to be out of time. Does it feel like our time together has just flown by? Maybe because I talked too fast. OK, all right, so we saw the push the image. Then there's the push the, you know, the SHA, the digest number back out to GitHub. Argosedia is watching. Argosedia just rolls it out, all right? Just rolls it out, pulls that image and rolls it out. So that's the flow that you saw in this case. That's not the only way to configure things, but it is definitely one way. And I should mention, too, the bit.ly link down here is the link to the slide deck, the live slide deck, like it was in the first presentation, which will get you access to all the slides. OK, all right, so there's a couple of deployment strategies that I want to show you, one more demo. And that is you can do a pull or a push. And this is important to understand, because people who love Argosedia like the pull model, and what you just saw was the pull model, which was, I'm going to watch to get repo, and I'm going to see that something changed. I'm going to pull the changes in to my cluster. That's kind of the default Argosedia way to work. But there's also a push model, which is I have more of a hub and spoke architecture where Argos sits on the hub, not on the spokes, and says, hey, spokes, something has changed. It could go either way, right? And so you can mix and match these principles, too. So you can do the pull model where it's a cluster-scoped Argosedia, and that is the default. Argosedia is scoped to the entire cluster. And therefore, all those Argo applications you create are basically going to look at GitHub repos. And let me actually show you that bit. I guess I didn't show you that. So back over here, kubectl get applications. Let's see, I think this is it. And no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's over here. Let me, let me, I can't remember which it's in. Yeah, OK, so it's oh, should get ops. See, that's actually the Argosedia declaration. So if I say describe application, win turbine, and in openshift get ops, OK, right there. See right there? What's your image? And then, yeah, right here, what is your repo? What repo are you going to be watching? That's kind of it. Tell Argosedia what repo to watch, and it makes the world look like that repo, OK? So you can see Anna says, synced. I synced it. And so that's it. There's more things than that, but that's good enough for now. But let's show you the push idea, OK? So the other option is push. So that was the pull. And so push, like I said, it kind of goes the other way. I basically have a central hub Argosedia that then can push out changes to the remote clusters. So right here, I have four different clusters, actually. I have a cluster in Toronto, EchoCubeConfig. And that is my hub. And then I have spokes in Amsterdam, Bangliru. Didn't say it right today. New York.  What's kind of funny is I'm normally in Europe showing this. And I like having US-based, European-based, and Asia-based, because that kind of covers most of the globe. And you will notice the latency differences, depending on where you fly to and run this particular demo. So even still, we're going to basically make a change in Toronto and get it to roll all the way back here. Just kind of wild to think about. So let's say I want to make a change across those clusters. Again, the same process as before, I will come into my code editor. And I'm going to basically say, OK, this is Amsterdam. They like the word aloe. Over here, you're more Namaste, right? And then in New York, because I think New Yorkers are funny, we're going to say, hey, y'all. I'm from the South. Can you tell? Hey, y'all, how y'all doing? So we're going to say, hey, y'all, for New Yorkers. That would upset them, by the way, just so you know. But are there any New Yorkers in the room? You could say yes. I see people here wearing the hats. So there must be something New York like here. So get status, there's the three changes. And again, Argo CD is looking for get changes. So all they did was change the deployment in this case. I could have changed the code. In this case, I changed the deployment. I'm going to say get commit. AM, let's call it the localized messages. And yep, and get push. OK. And I'm not going to wait the three minutes in this case. I'm going to go kick it, tell it to go. And that's over here. So there's my three application clusters. So let's just hit refresh, refresh them all.  And you'll see it roll out. You'll see, so there's the pod in New York. There's the pod up in Amsterdam. There's the pod here. See it's starting to do the rollouts. And then if you watch it, there's hey, y'all. There's Namaste, Arzalo. And this was from my Toronto cluster. So from here, we went to Toronto. Then it sent events out to all those clusters around the globe. Tell it, look at your Git repo. Make your change. So it's insanely powerful what you can do. But hopefully, you get a feel for how this works when it comes to the nice way Kubernetes is declarative. Think of everything is just YAML in the NCD database. It's not exactly that. But you can think of it like that way. You can do the edit, the kubectl edit, which means pull it back out. Let me hack on it, put it back in. Not the production thing you want. But essentially, that's what Argo is doing. It's basically saying, what's in my Git repo? What's in memory? Let me make those things look the same. So there, a global rollout of an application change with an audit trail in a few seconds live here from this stage. I think I'm out of time, right? Yeah. OK. So I'll be around after the session for questions. But I know we have to get to our next speaker. I thank you all for your time. Because me being able to speak to you means I stay away for a little bit longer. All right, thank you so much. So we have a couple of minutes, one or a few minutes, till the current set up the next one.