What is up everybody welcome back to the channel you guys just day in the life in the trenches Doing doing client work Helping a few of my clients out with just basic Copywriting email marketing Setting up email sequences, and I'm like man. Let me just record this. Let me kind of show you guys, you know Just behind the scenes of putting together what I call the back end Right as you go out there and build and build any audience on social media pick your platform Whether it's all platforms and you guys are gun-ho and you're just post post post post post Or whether you're just focused in on just a couple or maybe even focused on just one for the past couple years I've been focused in on really just YouTube Facebook my personal Facebook page Yes, for sure 100% because that's where that's where 99% of my clients come from social media marketing real estate agents Facebook Advertising 99% of my clients come from my personal Facebook page And then and then that 1% comes from YouTube So so those those are the two platforms that I kind of went all in on Especially with with video content with long form video content putting it here on Facebook Putting here on because because again the audience and then and then putting it on YouTube as well, right?  And in the piece is enough, right?  No matter what you're talking about It's it's obviously happening here on video video form in video form And and and whether it's YouTube whether it's Facebook whether it's Instagram whether it's TikTok whatever That's the front end, right? So as you're trying to build the front end The whole objective is to get a piece see you guys are consuming this content on social media You're either consuming it on Facebook, maybe on on on YouTube, right? You're consuming it on social media at the end of the day My real hardcore objective is to obviously capture the attention of a few of you and then and then and then grab that Information off the internet right the email the contact the lead, right?   Maybe buy a high ticket product may product maybe schedule an appointment Maybe just download something right you're out there talking about real estate Give people something to click on give something people to download give something I give give give a link share a page where people can share work Can can give you their information right and and I'm telling you man That's I'm saying that the majority of you that are seeing this Are all of you gonna opt into my links in the description not at all, but if I can get a piece of you That's all we need that's what I'm trying to tell you man Talk about whatever whatever fires you up and and and as you really build that brand and and you have stuff to share Services products to sell right a piece of that market will buy and that's what it's all about You guys is is is getting a piece of the pie man capturing someone's information whether that's in the form of a cell Right or that's in the form of a free download and you're just giving information you're exchanging value for value Here's a free download. Here's a free e-book. Here's a free cookbook. Here's a free seller guide. Here's a free buyer guide Here's a free CMA.  This is what we do we download information online and we give up name and email, right?  This is the back end and I wanted to kind of share with you I'm doing this for One of my clients Tina shout out to Tina taught producing real estate agent in Atlanta Just really kicking butt and just getting started with me, right getting started with me Step one step one in the five-step blueprint, which is a book. I wrote in 2018 for real estate agents Really talking to and what I teach agents is really for any any local business owner really doesn't matter What you what you are if you're trying to target a local area That's why I've been on Facebook ads for the past few years And it's kind of all I really taught the local business owner the local realtor the local credit person the local insurance agent It's because it's how you target like you got a target if you're trying to build a local business Social media as you scale your friend count. We all live across the country.  I'm telling you majority people that watch my YouTube videos don't even live in the area like state They don't even live in the country like I have so many people that follow us here that that they live around the world Right like I get love from India like shout out to India like it's crazy Africa one of my freaking most amazing clients South Africa like it's insane. So that but but my point is that's what global. That's what audience That's what social media. That's what all these people following you. That's what that's about It's like everyone kind of ends up being around the world. So so if you're trying to target a local area, you guys It's Facebook ads, right? It's Facebook ads. We want to target North Atlanta Excuse me Metro Atlanta, Metro Atlanta all of Atlanta really Metro Atlanta is where is where she's farming, right? Normally real estate agents. They're focused on a few zip codes, right? That's that's her So it's like that's what I'm saying pick your platform and just learn how to run an ad on that platform Instagram TikTok LinkedIn Facebook whatever YouTube learn how to run and run an ad because if it's not that then you're gonna Spend you're gonna you're gonna spend your days and in all your energy and resources just trying to build organically and that that's the thing If you're if you're local Organic is is gonna kind of get you what you get what you've gotten, right? Like and that's an audience of people around the world that that really don't care about what we're doing locally, right? So so Facebook ad you guys this is step one getting all of her links in order This is what I've been teaching realtors what I've been teaching small business owners since 2017 ish This is what I call step one just getting all your links in order, right? Simple branding simple facelift making the intro pop where where everything is identical, right? That's what I call step one and then step two is running a simple like ad, right? 99.99999% of business owners small business owners But also real estate agents specifically real estate agents because that's who I've been coaching since 2017 right on all this stuff, right? This is what I call step two is where now Her light count as you land on the page as you guys visually view the page for the first time She's at 1.2 thousand 99% of you guys are watching this video for your real estate agent. You guys are at 112 Right, and you've been clicking invite to all the all your three thousand friends that you have on Facebook Who all live across the country, right? So if we're friends right now if we're friends and you're watching this on Facebook, right? If we're friends and we're and you're watching this on Facebook Chances are you're clicking invite because I'm one of your friends and when I look at your business page because every single agent clicks invite So I've seen let me show you my notifications Eddie invited you Amy invited you Julie invited you Lana invited you Casey Invited you Nikki invited you Holly invited you Amanda Stephanie Antonette Jen Brandy invited you Alexa invited you Sharon invited you Morgan you guys I've been seen this has been my notification feed since 2017 So if you can imagine how many real estate agents because my five thousand friends are real estate agents, so These are invites from friends that I have that are all agents, right? I have literally five thousand friends and they're all agents and it's been that way since 2017 That's why 99% of my personal business my business business comes from my personal page because that's where all my all I make connections, right because Yeah, so so when I look at all these pages you guys hundred likes 200 likes 300 likes and yeah You're clicking invite to all your three thousand friends who don't even live in the area, right? Just to get up to two hundred and ninety likes right step two We run a simple Facebook ad like this happened in seven days Like she went from 88 likes to 1.2 on like a $50 budget Actually, no, I think she probably spent like half that I think she literally spent like 25 bucks on that ad right took it from 88 likes to 1.2 quick Just a quick Facebook ad a quick boost in the number and and that just adds to the credibility now You land here and you see a bigger like count super super important for you for the basic credibility of the page The links are super super important. Everything is identical. Look at that not one of you guys your intro looks like that I'm willing to bet not one of you comment below if your intro is identical not one number off now one letter off comment below if If yours looks exactly like that. I'm willing to bet it does not I've seen a million real estate agent pages, right? But again, even local business owners, you know, whether you're the local coffee shop or the local yoga studio the local dojo You're you got to do Jitsu shop whatever dude like Right basic stuff basic, but everybody misses it and then the light count Yeah, and then in the now what I'm doing with her you guys is again as we now start running Facebook ads to her local market That's what it's all about is our local market Instagram ad Facebook ad LinkedIn ad tick tock ad YouTube ad again.  She don't even care about more than any other city in the area She just wants Atlanta and specifically Metro Atlanta, right? So so she's gun-ho How do I target this area? How do I show my post to people that live down the street? That's what it's about you guys That's why I truly believe after speaking to thousands and thousands of local business owners real estate agents specifically It's like man Everyone has the right intention, but no one's no one's targeting right and that that happens with an ad So so so as we really roll out you guys here's getting to the meat and potatoes of the video As we really roll out We're now gonna start running ads to her local area. That's it So as she posts and and we're gonna start doing a ton more video This is the first one that that just rolled out Yeah, it's this one right here. So in this one in this one. It's kind of short It's kind of short I always recommend especially the first few go go on a tantrum a minute long minute and a half long You know a two minute long video educate people depending on your business to write depending on your business because in real estate You got to educate people don't know how to buy a property. You got to educate You think people know how to sell a property just because they own it don't mean they can they know how to sell a house Not at all like 99% of homeowners don't know nothing about the process of selling a home not at all Right, so it's like dude. You got to educate you got to educate So that's why when you when I educate like look, this is an educational video like I'm showing you what I'm doing here This is this is this is a form of educational long form content, right?  So in this case with her we're just getting started. That's the first one and in this video She's talking about what it takes to sell She's given a quick tip on on what it takes to prep your property to sell your property and and really the benefits, right? And again in 36 seconds, you really can't say much. That's why that's why we're just getting started now as we move forward I'm coaching her on just to go more long form, you know, especially because all we're gonna do all we're gonna do is run this to her local area You guys that's it.  So as you go out there and I have 5,000 friends So if you're watching this on Facebook, you're one of my 5,000 Most people have like 2,500 3,100 most will have like 1,900 and if you do or and if you are in the 4,000 on Facebook specifically your personal profile If you're in the 4,000, you got 4,500 friends 4,700 friends 99% of them are me 99% of them. Look, I'm one of your friends. If you're seeing this on Facebook You got 4,700 friends on your personal profile 99% of them are me where we live across the country So so so that's what I'm saying you guys like if you're gonna put out the content You got to learn how to run an ad like learn how to run an ad that's what I'm teaching Tina I'm like dude forget about just posting for the hell of it Forget about just posting for everybody and anybody. No, dude Let's just start targeting our area and that's with a simple Facebook ad So in this case again this video That's the whole objective. The whole objective is to give is to give our audience a tip Hey metro Atlanta, this is Tina Mason it wanted to share a quick tip with you when it comes to selling your property That's this this this video. That's this ad right and at the end There's a call to action to download to click and download her free Seller guide and that brings you that brings us straight to to this page right here seven steps to home seller success Right secret strategies. I give all my clients to sell their home above asking price and fast click here to download So simple page simple page that I helped her put together Right simple page.  We're all building something right We all got to feed our families. We're all trying to build something like we're trying to crack the code Right and so as you go out then really educate people again, this is your bait This is your bait most I truly believe and it's not even just real estate If you're a local business owner an online entrepreneur Most are simply everyone's fishing everyone's fishing right again. It's not like you're doing this for your health No, you're not you're doing this for your wealth, right? So everyone's fishing But no one has any bait so imagine that imagine that we go out to the freaking pier or or we even go deep sea fishing If you guys know about that I'm out here in san diego. So I'm freaking 10 minutes away from the bay, right? That's all I grew up around was that type of stuff.  That's what I truly believe 99% of people do when they go out there and create content. They just they're just they're just they're just doing it There's no call to action. There's no call to action, right? So now in this case with tina Here's the call to action as she goes out there really shares her business because god knows you guys are going to go out there and continue to Share your business, right? You're going to you're going to post on different platforms Which is what I'm saying. No not to do but you're going to do it anyways, right?  You're closing deals. You're fired up All I'm saying is that now this now this is what it takes. This is this is this is the simple squeeze page This is the lanny page That we're going to bring people to and and and whether it's organic or whether it's an ad Now she has bait. This is her bait now She could take that link share the heck out of it and and and capture leads organically You could post that link wherever the heck now you have a link now you have a lanny page But also most importantly now you have something of value to give for free In exchange in exchange for someone's information, right? That's what it's all about. You got to share value You got to share value You got to share value, right? I'm going to put this in as a test David test. I'll just put David test. Okay This is the exchange of value guys. So look here's what I was working on today Here's why I wanted to take you behind the scenes as I opt in right as I opt in Let me go actually my bad David at okay, perfect. So as I opt in I'm then taken to a second page Which is what we call a thank you page right and on this page. This is where she's simply introducing herself She's saying thank you She's telling the person to check their email because she just sent over their free seller guide And then she's saying hey and by the way, I'd love to talk to you So if you click the button below It'll take you straight to my calendar where you could schedule your best time That right there you guys is the flow It's two pages So we we literally went from page one to them opting in to page two now. They're seeing a video on her So now she's really getting people even more indoctrinated not only have them been seeing her video ad and the news feed And these are people that live down the street But but as as as they've seen that a few times and they're like damn it. Okay, cool I'm gonna opt in and see what this is all about. She's offering a free seller guys. She's offering a free pdf She's giving me free information on what I'm probably already interested in Why not I keep seeing her in the news feed.  Why not like heck? Yeah, right. So so this is this is the flow you guys and then as they land here This is where we're going for the call. But as as as in any business There's gonna be a percentage that's scheduled a call and there's gonna be a percentage that don't The ones that don't that's what we're here for the ones that don't that's the back end So as you build your business online you guys on social media Here's now the link to capture the lead Because a percentage of my audience I need them to come off the platform a percentage of the audience That's my piece of the pie. I want them off the platform.  That's the bank. That's the back end That's the bank. That's the bank. That's that's that's the money. That's your that's your that's your residual That's what you can leverage because you now have an email list And and and now now now you have people that you can stay in communication with no matter what platform We're on right. I want to piece off that platform in this case. So now again with with tina As she goes out there and shares her real estate business. She shares content She shares her passion. She shares her freaking knowledge on the industry Now she has bait now She has a link that she could start promoting and in caption the lead and again A piece of the pie a piece of the market will a piece of the of the leads I should say a percentage What we'll schedule a call here and and a percentage will not those that do not you guys those that do not This is her seller guide So we're going to make sure that this is in email number one So i'm going to simply come over to and this is karcher. So I I i've been using karcher since 2018 There's a link. There's a fortune-day trot in the in the description But karcher is simply my email automation. So as I capture these leads that could have been a lead on a seller guide That could have been been a lead on on an open house Right as you guys go out there and share your open house links Don't share the link straight to the mls. Don't share the link Even from your website that coldwell gave you.  We got we got it. We got to make sure that that work We're tracking the data, right? You want to take this link? You want to start you want to you want to create audiences inside of facebook alone Right and and you can start segmenting people that are landing on your link You can't do that right now when you share an m ls link and you for sure can do that when you share your color Williams link like at all like you're not they're tracking the link On the back end. They know who visited the page, right? But I want you to like I want to like you want to like you want to track that data So as I go out there and again share my open house as I go out there and share my listing I'm now sharing these one pages where people can come Opt in for that listing opt in for that open house, right? Send me the details they land on the second page and that's where it's it's it's you know on Where it's my client obviously in this case, but He's on video. Thank you Telling them to check their email Introducing themselves and then most importantly going for the call for those that don't schedule that call here and there you guys That's the back end. That's what I was working on right now. So So let me get this link. This is for email number one This is for email number one and that's going to be this is so yeah the cartridge system I use it for my email automation I use it for my landing pages and I use it for my online calendar So I spend 99 dollars a month and I've been on this software since 2018 And anyone that jumps on it I give them my time for free and I teach them how to use it if you're in the real estate space I have I have all these funnels done for you listing funnels open house funnels And again in this case with Tina I'm setting up her seller guide funnel And so so as again you guys as she goes out there and continues to share her real estate business Just like you guys are Now she has bait compared to 99 of her colleagues who are fishing with with none Right. So so this is now the new link where where we get fired up on you guys So so as people opt in right as people opt in if they don't schedule a call cool No big deal That's where we win them also you guys on the back end Which is the real real back end and that's the email sequence So as people as people opt in for whatever your download is a free buyer guide a free seller guide a free a free Ebook on anything a free webinar a free training a free video like anything that you can exchange for value man Then that's why if you guys are in business You got it you got a tailor to your business and offer something that that that can give people information a free coupon Again a download Anything that could be virtual and it could be digital and it could be freaking Like literally instant right and that's that's an exchange of value people give you know name and email all damn day So here in this this is where that's why all of you guys also are opted into different things So if you don't have your own opt-in page, you're being opted in you're opted into people's things like you're opted in for information You're you're whether you're buying different things online or you're just seeking information online Dude you get we put our name and email. I'm freaking anything. We're interested in right So when you look at your inbox, so after you do that after you do that After you do that because god knows 100 of you guys are watching this video has often have opted into something No matter what it is, right you guys we all given our name and email on things, right? So so when you look at your inbox from that day on Those emails that follow Are automated that's what this is all that's the back end you guys is the email automation So as I get attention on social media, you guys are watching this on youtube You guys are watching this on facebook as i'm getting that that attention and that view on social media I'm taking a percentage you a percentage of you guys off And and and now communication begins in in the in the email sequence and in my case, it's the fbi's cheat sheet So when you're catching this on youtube There's the fbi's cheat sheet That that you'll see in every single description of my youtube videos And I have hundreds of videos over here on youtube and then on facebook It's a link to my ebook, right? So so if you're catching this on facebook You're seeing a link in the in the comments down below You're seeing a link to my ebook for real estate agents and that's where i'm teaching these five steps This is what I call step five is the email automation step four is the landing pages And step three is when we target our local area for leads and and this is one way we do it So when we're not promoting a listing when we're not promoting an open house We're simply promoting a seller guide educating homeowners in that local area on what it takes to sell and giving them a free Download giving them a free seller guide, which is freaking badass. Let me show you. Um, let me show you hers This is um, and so i'm setting up the email right now you guys and i'll just show you how I do it And i'll show you a couple emails and then and then we'll be good But this is her seller guide look 18 pages of straight fire, right seven steps to home seller success Nice little image right there her contact information right away on the cover Like look at that dude freaking table of contents like this is insane and this is freaking i'm telling you this is this is This is a 25 dollar freaking um edit like what I take my coaching clients through So this right here can be done for you guys like this is amazing and this is your bait So again you guys as you're sharing content give people something to click on Because that's that that's that's the the one percent or if that or or even if that right The quarter percent the half of one percent whatever however you want to say but name it But that's the crumb off the pie that will really freaking buy whatever the hell you're selling They'll opt in to what you're giving right because these are your loyal followers And some of you guys are my loyal followers on youtube on facebook, right? And and you guys are opting into all kinds of stuff So so that's why this back end you guys is so important when you can share content And then give away something of value and then get someone's email and then communicate with them via email via email automation Via email automation From this point on that's the game changer So again, this is this is where i'm at right now inside of kartra Again, if you guys are new to this whole online space, but but you're you're picking up when i'm dropping Target your area Take someone to a click take make someone click take someone to a page get them to opt in Right take a piece of the market off of these platforms Wherever you're consuming content and wherever people are consuming your content Take a piece of them off man and and this is the back end So in this case, this is seller guide. This is based off of a tag This is the seller guide and then boom this is email number one So this is what i was working on right here you guys email number one and and i'm going to show you how i do it I'm going to show you how i do it and and what i want to do here What i want to do here and we'll end it here because this is kind of um where i'm at with it And that's this is what i want to show you So as they opt in they're going to get this email right away right your 2023 seller guide So that email goes out right away That goes to every lead that comes in no matter if they schedule a call No matter if they scheduled a call on this on the second page or not right so no matter if they Where did tina's go tina's right here so no matter if they schedule a call right here It doesn't matter everyone gets everyone gets um email number one right so so that that's the link That's the link to the seller guide that goes in In this first email and then and then two days later two days later This next one goes out and this is what i wanted to show you okay So let me let me hover over these three dots such a fine line And then click on edit okay, so let me i'm going to show you how i do this real quick. Um And i'm going to take it into chat gpt actually i'm going to take it actually into chat bgpt This is where this is where i want you guys chat dot open ai.com right there. That's where i want you guys right This is just code that's not even um that's all part of the internet IP but that's chat a open a oh dot open ai.com that's where you guys want to be right this is free I'm still in the free account. I think they got it like a paid version now But i'm still freaking on the same freaking paid account And so now what i'm doing you guys is leveraging chat gpt for two things really in my business I'm leveraging it for email sequences for email. This is your drip the email automation That's what i'm saying when you look at your inbox right now all these freaking emails that you guys are getting man No matter what the hell it's on whatever health nutrition You're into vitamins and so you're freaking getting information right these are all automated emails, man These are all automated emails Some of them had call to actions to get you buy more to get you to buy more products Some of them had have have different call to actions to call or schedule a call or whatever dude, right? So so before in the past man, that is your typical copywriting that is um Super super super time consuming. It's also a skill People make thousands and thousands of dollars to write An email thread for a business Like that and and and this is prior to chat gpt. This is prior to chat gpt That's why I could never do that in the past. I'm like do this This could take forever Right little things like that or even write in an ad right a lot of you guys have ideas But how do you write it down? How do you how do you write a facebook ad? How do you write an instagram ad? How do you write a youtube? Like how do you? How do you how do you do that? Right? So so in this case what i'm talking about is i'm talking about Advertising and i'm talking about an email sequence, right all these emails that we get you guys. That's a sequence We are in someone's email sequence This right here is the game changer and this is what i'm going to show you. This is the game changer this Chat gpt will literally write me an email series. It'll write me an ad. It'll write me anything I could and this is the prompt. This is where it begins right here at the bottom, right?  So i'm going to put write me a write me um write me a I'm going to put write me a seven email series Speaking to homeowners In Atlanta, georgia Okay, so now what i'm going to do is i'm going to write this out. Give me one second Please write me seven emails speaking write me write me write me Write me an email series Because that sometimes it writes a lot sometimes it writes a few so i'm just going to put write me an email series speaking to homeowners in Atlanta georgia who who just inquired about my seller guide and downloaded and downloaded a free Copy Okay, and downloaded and downloaded a free copy my seller guide My seller guide gives strategies to homeowners in atlanta who may be interested in selling their home I want you to write me a series of emails educating homeowners on selling their home what it takes renovation renovation remodel curb hill Current real estate market write me a series of emails that talk about the benefits of selling their home And why now is a great time include call to actions to schedule a consultation call with me request me as a friend on facebook Or to join our facebook group enter Subject line your ultimate guide is selling your home in atlanta i'm going to take this And i'm going to throw it in to my email. So this is this is this is um, and i'm going to name it I'm going to rename the broadcast based on this ultimate guy your ultimate guide. I'm going to name it your ultimate guide. Okay, you're Your ultimate guide Okay, so that's Okay, so your ultimate guide. So let's get that let's get that that's just simply the broadcast That's just simply the title But that's also going to be the subject line of the email which is right here So this is just simply a time, you know, letting me know if it goes out. I could send out any day I can edit this part only send money through friday between these hours. I could wait, you know, five days So all this stuff could be changed, but i'm gonna i'm gonna just skip that part you guys That's all pretty self-explanatory and i'm gonna go straight into this So this is this is your ultimate guide to selling your home in atlanta So i'm gonna take that man. I'm gonna take that and then i'm gonna simply come down to email number one welcome Subject email number one subject welcome and your home seller guide Your ultimate guide is selling your home. Let's do um Yeah, i'm gonna yeah, i'm gonna just put i'm gonna just leave that one I'm not gonna go with this one see so what I also use it for you again you guys so so i'm using this for for ads I'm using this for um for email for email sequences And i'm using it using it to do 99 of the heavy lifting for me like dude Like I wrote out the prompt and this thing just spit out freaking a ton. This is email number two And then I can go regenerate response And it'll go again There's email number one Introduction and the power of preparation Right discovery discover the key to maximize the value of Atlanta home dear. Thank you for telling my seller guide Unleash the potential like this is this is doing that this is doing like Literally 99 of the heavy lifting for me And all i'm gonna do is i'm gonna copy paste what I need what I what I don't need and i'm gonna edit it That's it man. And and this right here. I'm telling you this is way better than what I could have thought of like For the next three hours like it took me less than three minutes, right? So so this is what i'm doing you guys. I'm just simply Working on this email series because this is now where we're at You want to start build as you build that brand you want to start giving people You know something of value and and this is in exchange for someone's information This is where we're at right take a piece of that market and and get them into get them into your world And then just build it build the build the whole um build a whole relationship from this point on business relationship via email It's either text but most people are are way way more inclined to to give up their email Then to give up their phone number, right? Once last time you opted in and gave up your phone number to people that you kind of don't or brands or influencers Whatever that you kind of don't even fully know Right, excuse me. You're not really giving out your number like that.  So that's what you want people to do. So i'm gonna take i'm gonna take that you guys That's what I use i'm gonna use chat gpt. I'm gonna paste this in i'm gonna clean up all this and that'll be email number one and then um and then from there work Our whole objective is through through the actual um, um, this is all a template. This is an old template But this is going to be all her information. So I got to take out all this stuff And then all we're going to do you guys is simply continue to to to stay top of mind Let me delete this part stay top of mind Continue to build that relationship And and and before you know it leads are turning into deals and um and away we go you guys I wanted to share with that share that with you guys shout to tina. She now is a seller guy She now has a link she's sharing and she'll now have a back end where the communication lives on the relationship builds on And leads turn into clients. All right guys. So clean up your your back end. I'll see you in the next video over now


Trying to get back to some fundamentals of the game and that was a big force, just tackling, blocking, catching the football. And trying to expand the playbook just a little bit with some of our young quarterbacks and continue to bring those guys along and getting some new guys back and getting healed up because that's the number one thing is getting healed up. Just staying true to our scheme, Nick's saving those changed things whenever things just go bad all of a sudden overnight. And we got a lot of playmakers and we got to get those guys the ball. They got to make the routine plays and two weeks ago we had ten drop balls in a ball game and that's uncharacteristic of us and that just sort of changes the way the game goes. And so just getting back to those fundamentals and that's in all phases of the game. Take it one game at a time, but it is down that home stretch. You're in the East Conference play and we're sitting there wanting to know. So we're in great position right now. We just got to get back on the winning track.


Welcome to the Martin E. Siegel Theatre Center here at the Graduate Center CUNY and to Prelude 21 Start Making Sents. It is our annual Theatre and Performance Festival celebrating the work of New York Theatre artists of ensembles and it's hard enough in normal times to create work for the stage and for spaces inside and outside but at the time of Corona we all are faced with exceptional challenges and we are here to celebrate again the extraordinary achievements that come out of the New York Theatre community. It is time I think and we feel to start making sense to ask questions why are we making theatre but also how are we producing it and for whom. And this is a great investigation again into the mechanics of making art in New York City and we also invited theatre ensembles from around the U.S. from Detroit and Cincinnati and Lewis and Philadelphia New Orleans to join us and this will be an extraordinary look into what is on the minds of artists right now we also have many panel discussions we have an award which will be giving out to honor outstanding members of the New York Theatre community so I would like to all of you to join in and get an insight of what is happening. Welcome everybody here to the Martin E. Siegel Theatre Center at the Graduate Center CUNY in Midtown Manhattan it is a beautiful day outside we have the sunshine after a couple of days of rain and the sun is shining I think today on our honoree for our prelude festival each year we do celebrate the work and honor the work as a representative for many many others but someone who made a real contribution to the theatre community who made a difference and whose engagement we think stands for the generosity, sincerity and also significance of contributions theatre artists do make not only to their own but also to the city and we have with us Shadeh today from the National Black Theatre up there in Harlem it is a great honor to have you with us and our team decided and voted that it is time to recognize the outstanding and significant and also beautiful work she is doing and with us we have Jonathan McCrory also from this theatre from the National Black Theatre and the great Keith Joseph Atkins who we had many times with us on the Siegel talks for a new black fest and normally he is based in the on the west coast but he happens to be here this week it's a great honor to have all of you here and I would like to say welcome and how are you guys? Shadeh, how are you Jonathan? Keith? Hanging in there it is a wonderful time to be alive and to interrogate what it means to be alive this Thursday feels like the longest Thursday of any week you know but it's incredible to be able to just take a pause and be here with you today to celebrate black theatre celebrate coalitions of theatre of color and then the fact that I get these two genius, genius people with me to have a conversation Jonathan and Keith it's a good day how about y'all? I'm doing it I mean it's a I have to say like it's been beautiful to have this opportunity to feel the sunshine I mean like Shadeh and I just left this beautiful conversation it feels really inspiring although very dynamically pulling in so many different ways it feels like as we re-open I was actually texting Shadeh earlier just talking about how it's really weird when you wake up in the morning and you just feel like you don't have enough time and what does time feel like in this new age of both being on Zoom but also having to be in person and the friction between the two and how although we might not have wanted to have shut down life how in shut down life life was just a little bit simpler and a little bit smoother as far as like you just knew that you're nowhere else to go but like kind of your home so it's been quite dynamic to kind of have to wrestle with all of that Keith how are you back in New York for a week? I'm great I'm not sure I'm having a little bit of audio and visual issues on my end so I hope I'm coming in clearly we hear you perfectly thank you so much I'll let you guys be the barometer of how I'm being received thank you all again you know for being here we also as we always do we would like to acknowledge the Lenape people upon whose land we are gathered today and we respect and pay respect to the Lenape people ancestors past present and future it's an important reminder we always have here and today now we really look at the work you know of Shadeh her work also for the National for the Coalition of Theaters of Color here in New York and I hope you will have a conversation that tells us a little bit more so we learn a little bit more about you know what the work is all about but also how you what you feel and where black theater is at the moment where it's going to I'm gonna blend out about Shadeh maybe show up the award to our audience we think we brought it over yesterday so it's a really awesome award for you to know we at the Segal Center don't just give the award itself as comes also was a $1,500 endowment that is really to its buying books going out seeing things doing research and connecting as a really as an as an encouragement and it means a lot to us we think your work is truly significant and important especially in the time we and it has always been but now of course we look even with both eyes to it so I'll let you to the conversation Jonathan and Shadeh and Kies and goodbye and I'm going to listen and I can't wait to hear what you all have to say again congratulation from our staff from everybody around in the New York theater community for the contribution you make and for sharing and for sharing thank you bye bye I mean I would love to just start by just like if you could just paint a picture for us Shadeh as far as like how have you navigated this pandemic like I mean there has been a huge as a witness sir of looking at what you have done day in and day out is profound sensibility of nuance of thoughtfulness of compassion of rigor of holding the post of actually becoming a new human and actually owning your destiny in so many ways so like if you could just paint like and there are many ways I can remind you of some of the things that you would have been able to accomplish but like if you just paint a picture for us as far as like what has been this moment of pandemic but also what has been this moment of holding this huge space that your mom transitioned and left for you to steward and mantle and how you have created a definitive space for yourself inside of that but also a definitive space for not just yourself but for actually the legacy of black theater and also for people of Afghanistan and ultimately for human transformation well that's a big question and I think it's a question for all of us to kind of wrestle with I think as we dive in here I just want to acknowledge that this award is so moving to me because one of the hats that I get the privilege to wear is to be the chair of the coalition of theaters of color CTC is an organization or is a coalition that's been around since 2004 started by really interrogating just that question and that condition in 2004 by the great the late great Ruby D and I'll see Davis and so for their 50th wedding anniversary they were they as artists that meet activism in active practice they decided to dedicate their 50th anniversary to doing a fundraiser for black theaters because we they as practicing artists and activists understood that the under investment in our spaces was unacceptable and that you know they were two living artists that not only talk the talk they always walk the walk and that first anniversary fundraiser planted the seeds for what a coalition of advocacy could be not only for black theaters but for culturally specific theaters in New York and so the CTC was born and about and it was founded by nine culturally specific theaters some of which are still in existence some of which are not everyone from Gertrude Nets Hadley players and Paul Robeson theater right that we no longer unfortunately have in our community the way we once had but theaters like the National Black Theater the new federal theater the new heritage theater Billy Holiday and the black spectrum theater some of the founding theater then you add Latin X theaters with Thalia and say to create this coalition and really advocate you know I didn't realize before the pandemic to your question Jonathan the importance of coalition building and building community within the communities that we represent to be stronger forces and the coalition started out as these nine theaters we protested we advocated for the New York City government to recognize us and the inequities in a real way that it was unacceptable that the city would talk about the inequities and you know diversity equity and inclusion and not be putting their money where their mouth is and Dominique Rechia a council person really understood that and turned our protests turned our wounds into and heard that heard our wounds as wisdom and created the first cultural initiative in the city budget and it's called the coalition of theaters of color it started out as almost half a million dollars that would go to these culturally specific theaters and I am so proud to say today the coalition of theaters of color represent 52 culturally specific theaters across all five boroughs and with the help of our friends in government really the leadership of Lori cumbo the majority leader I have to say all of this because it's just true and the advocacy of council person and cultural chair Jimmy Van Bremer this year we had in a year where and I and it tells you about the work of the coalition but also what this last year has been through our advocacy through our activism we have grown that budget initiative with the leadership of the city council to be 5.7 million dollars that goes directly to the work the preservation the artistry of culturally specific theaters within the coalition so I am over the moon that you know that historical moment in time where things are getting cut the recognition of the work of our theaters are growing and so much of this last year has been beating that drum not only for the work of the National Black Theater does but on behalf of culturally specific theaters from Native American to Latin X to Asian Pacific to Asian theaters to black theaters in this way again shout out to black the black Latino and Asian caucus within the city council without your dedication and commitment to the work that we do we would not have been able to be in this moment so thank you for honoring the work of the CTC I get to chair it for the time being but I am but I am just one of 52 organizations doing the good work and fighting their good fight and so that's been the last that's been really beating that drum in addition to the work we get to do the National Black Theater that has been the last two years educating our friends in government and our cultural friends at PWIs that our work is the work right and that we all have to come around the same watering hole and beat that same drum in a year of the school year 21 where we had a full shutdown of arts and culture and our budgets were being cut sometimes as big a cut as 50% of cultural budgeting you know the city heard us that we said listen in the wake of everything you know to be true you have the power of the artists you have the power of storytelling that your budgets when you go into those rooms and you vote on your budget and what you're going to cut understand it's a moral document yeah yeah yeah story do you want to tell in your budget because if you laud us for being storytellers and cultural and cultural shapers understand you have that same power with the story that you write with the budget and so in FY 21 we were the only cultural initiative in the whole New York City budget that didn't get cut and then they came even stronger this year around in FY 22 and increased our funding by $2 million direct funds to these 52 organizations so anyway that's my soapbox thank you Aussie Davis and Ruby D thank you ancestors thank you to most importantly the 52 organizations that continue to be doing the frontline work in our communities to keep arts culture and specifically theater alive authentically so okay I got that out of the way welcome back he we're just we're checking in about how how we are and how we have navigated the last year and a half of COVID I just you know was talking about the work of the CTC and I know that we all have navigated it differently so I'm going to throw that question over to you how are you how is the condition of who you are and how has the last year to happen yeah no I appreciate that yeah please forgive me for my audio visual matrix issues I don't know this is a post full moon effect like I don't know what's happening but I'm glad to be back and definitely I've heard a lot of what you said about what was happening with in BT I think on the new blackfest front you know I'm pretty much a solo operation with the help support of a couple of associate producers and we've been very quiet like you know when the pandemic happened and initially we shut down I'm just one of those people who troubleshoot very quickly and I could see the future was like okay we need to shut down and just kind of take our time kind of think about it kind of you know read the room read the global room and and from there we all decided to pause it like just pause and let's kind of rethink what the new blackfest means like what does it mean to be normally putting a light on social justice issues that are national and international but now there's this larger phenomena at play that's almost in a way both shadowing social justice but also reshaping social justice right because now you have issue about health care inequities and all these things that happened during the pandemic that was quite visible then so for us we just decided to pause until it was important that we knew exactly where we what we were re entering what the world we were actually re entering and then kind of re imagining and curating our normal programming based on the real world and we're still trying to kind of figure what that what that is because things are still changing constantly and transitioning constantly but so so on that front the front of just sort of like programming and where we are and that on that front that's what that is on a personal level keep as human being keep as artists keep as artistic sort of leader if that woman call me that I've had an ample amount of time to really dig deep and really like return to some big emotional moral questions for myself that you know you know and as we all know as artists like our moral sort of our moral architecture and our emotional architecture and our spiritual architecture of things that inform our art and during this pandemic I was sort of you know dropped hard on the ground like oh yo Keith you need to rethink your moral situation here you need to think your emotional situation you need to think your spiritual situation so I feel like I've come out of this pandemic are coming I'm rising up at this point in the pandemic a bit more evolved than I was 18 months ago spiritual emotional and moral tip and I feel much more confident about myself I feel much more guided as far as like what I want as a human being what I want in my art what I want in the TV and film world how when I participate in that it's got things just have gotten really really focused for me and recently as we probably all know now the Lark Play Development Center are closing their doors which has been outside of the National Black Theater and the Segal Theater Center have been you know collaborators and sort of housed us now we don't have that house anymore right we don't have that place to fall and sort of like lean into and so we're kind of on our own again which is great luckily we still have you all who continue to so open your doors and you know open your door to whatever we have going on but also the Apollo Theater has been instrumental now we're sort of rethinking about what we're doing and how we do it you know and how we collaborate with each other so yeah I think that's really powerful Jonathan and I often say the shift is hitting the fan that's been the last two years like the shift is hitting the fan and the shift is important and the shift is it looks a lot like a lot like you have described in all the in all of the ways Jonathan I'm going to throw to you and say can you talk a little bit about the power of the pause you want to talk about artistically artistically and personally the power of the pause and there really has been a lot of power as you kind of described it Keith in these last two years as much as there has been really hard time so the power of the pause Jonathan I mean the power of the pause for me has been really reflective and also I have taken it as a cocoon and I have been like and I have been positive for those who might who might have heard me talk before it's like what was this moment if it wasn't a gift to really do what caterpillars do inside a cocoon and re augment to re strengthen find new bones strengthen find new colors that create that create the authentic representation of yourself so that when you come out of this cocooning process you get to become you get to live inside of an essence of the butterfly and what I love about that idea and the ideology is that the butterfly isn't isn't is graceful is transformative but also is delicate still still has a softness to it that you don't come into this new this new world that actually has that they were all interacting with that that comes on the other side of the shutdown not the pandemic but the shutdown how this how how do you engage this new world and a really beautifully authentic rigorous and present pulse way that those full of thoughtfulness and compassion I think that you know a lot of a lot of ways like I thought my job transformed I feel like my my what I was actually being asked to do of being present for artists and being present to my company which I serve those two things totally took another took another deep dive beautiful twist wanting more needing more wanting me to show up more needing me to show up more and trying to figure out what does actual transformative care look like what does what does what does can what does care look like that is not prescriptive but it's very much that is that is very much allowing for someone to show up in their wholeness and for you to start creating parameters and programming that allows for it allows for their unique IP to be cared for illuminated and show and showing up so what have I done in the pandemic I've also like you know discovered what radio plays feel like again and really dialing into what radio plays look like as an actual creative space for black artists to really own and hone and be a participant inside of I've also I've also been triggered to film since the pandemic in the midst in the midst of the pandemic being given an opportunity to do residency at all arts and be able to do a short which is something that was I didn't I would never say I didn't think I would ever do but the fact that I am doing it now that's like feels like fully new and different and exciting and also and also creating conditions at MBT to really make sure the individual artists that left to the wayside in a midst of all of this shut down our progress that that as we as institution builders move our move our organizations forward in our very respective ways that we think about how we can do micro support to macro support so we started a resident or reading series program where we did 23 black playwrights during the pendant during the shutdown in particular we're continuing it past that but 23 black playwrights a space to do micro development which gave them outside of our residency program we were able to support more create more more space and giving them our zoom doing them giving the playwrights money giving the director money giving actors money just to play for six hours and then with no commitment of like saying like you have to show us something you have to do something like just have six hours just to generate narrative generate something that like if we're if we're going to be in the shutdown moment let us walk out of it again thinking about the the other analogy of coming out of the cocoon the husk of that cocoon let us come out of there with new narratives stronger narratives more focused narratives so that the American theater can actually have a fertile ground starts to really address our now state instead of our past state and I think that's been the interesting thing with the reopening has been looking at the plethora of work that is happening it like you can feel the true divergence of if it was supposed to be produced before the pandemic if it was produced in response to the pandemic and if it's in response and it's also responding to creating space for our trauma that we went through or the grief that we went through because of the show going through yeah going I want to just thank you so much here you both of you in your responses talk about care and keep you were talking about your emotional and your spiritual architecture and Jonathan you were talking about after care and responsive care not only to yourself but to the community of people and artists and audiences I think that that is a unique way of working blackly right that we now get an opportunity to have these conversations that are streamed all over the world about our work practice being you know linked so closely you know irreparably linked it's not a word I don't know that's the right word but it is the word now with the architecture and the foundation of our spirit and our emotions that we can't actually be responsible leaders without incorporating as a foundational principle care and I think that to me if that is something that came out of this pandemic only the three of us in our respective roles are talking about personally but pouring that into our organizations and saying hey whatever partnership wherever space we go into that is a part of the equation I think is really powerful and is a takeaway from a conversation like this if you're not having conversations about your spiritual emotional care what are we building building back differently and that makes me think about this other thing that I really want us to dive into because I don't feel like we're having these conversations publicly after the murder of George Floyd our communities erupted in protest and our responsiveness to those protests were part of a continuum that we saw for the first time globally people participating in and you touched on that and the work of the new black vest works with these issues of social justice what has it been like through the innovation of care through the innovation of protest and these very particular conditions that have put us in virtual spaces to grow not only our audiences globally but to see the work of our activism being globally ignited how has that for both you and Jonathan for you and Jonathan how has that affected the way in which you think about producing the kind of work you think about producing and what role does a global audience have in how you think about what you want to put forward and the mediums in which you want to work Jonathan do you want to start or I'll let you go first that's an amazing question and I think about initially after the George Floyd global outrage that happened that we all witnessed for the new black vest in particular I wanted to recently we were commissioned by the Apollo to curate part of their new season with the new victory in template what we normally do is normally social justice sort of inspired work things that are happening now but now of it all and because George Floyd happened and the shutdown happened it was very important to me in the context of care to allow the writers to take their time in discovering and deciding what they wanted to discuss in this sort of what's happening now curation I didn't want to prompt them while all that was happening because I felt like normally as black or historically as black and brown and people of the African diaspora and the brown diaspora were often responding very quickly to what's happening in front of us and changing laws and moving our families or whatever the situation sort of necessitates but I did want to even though there was a part of me that wanted to sort of let these writers just sort of unleash exactly how they were feeling but they have been doing that for the last decade and I felt like I wanted them to take the time to take care of their spirits because it was overwhelming that global outrage it was amazing but also overwhelming because it was like once again this is happening to us once again once a week almost right but this sort of like iconic event is happening to us once again this is how the world is outraged by it and it's time for us to just sit back and pause and just really pause and just take it all in and understand what our next moves are and really but even outside of all that because the sort of the social justice urgency to it all is definitely important in paramount but we are also human beings we're also individual specimens on this planet and we also are feeling and responding to all the things like everybody else from the weather to the climate change to the you know the environment to the unrest like all that's happening to us just like it's happening to everybody else in the globe but we have the added burden of having to navigate and deal with unwarranted policing and attacking of our bodies in our communities so for me again just to underline like it was so important that people in my at least in my community paused took a breath checked in with themselves in order to then step forward as you're mentioning Shade and figure out the next plan of action and what does that look like now now that we have global sort of a global look a global sort of illumination of what's going on what does that look like now does it sound the same is it shaped the same are the stories the same like you know are we still talking just to each other are we now talking to the global community you know I think I'll say all that and I'll lend my playing with that for now but yeah I think what's powerful about that is two things one of the things that was so incredible to see in my own generation because perhaps our parents saw it a little bit was how this global movement was really a global movement and to see our white brothers and sisters pick up the picket signs and be on the front lines it actually gave us space to breathe like I was like y'all this is your fight and y'all need to be on the front line and what we need to do is pause and take care because this what you have experienced as trauma porn what you're experiencing as violence is trauma porn in our lives that we are living in and have to protect our babies so while we are worried about our babies y'all be on the front line and I thought for me that was catalytic and it didn't feel like my role as a black woman and a mother was to do anything but pause and to take care of me and mine and me and mine looks like like our community the other thing I just want to point out because I want to get Jonathan in here I know he has so much to say is this is why I think it was so important and again thank you Jonathan and Keith we wanted to do this conversation live so it could be on howl round because we understand we have brothers and sisters all over the globe tuning in to watch this conversation and that our condition our condition is the condition we're also connected and we have learned that through the last year in a half but I want to throw it to you Jonathan to get some thoughts on it and then I want to share a little story about National Black Theater of Sweden in regards to this go ahead Jonathan you're muted my sweet there we go I'll mute button I think you would think I would have known that by now and two years of being virtual I would have learned it the learning curve is real I mean what I think about is really important and really building on the conversation that we're talking about how can we be any more structured than the planet that holds us and the planet that holds us is going through I think Keith you brought this up in other conversations I've had with you and I really appreciate it and made me think about how how can I find structure the planet that actually holds me that's actually my fertile ground I mean a cathartic moment actually going through there's a cathartic moment happening inside of my system and that that cathartic it doesn't mean it's peaceful doesn't mean that it's full of roses or that it feels good it means that there is a friction that's happening on a the nature is teaching me that I am internally and a part of a systematic rebirth and a regeneration if I'm humble enough may include me or may not and am I okay with that contribution that I will give to that regeneration because is my and what is my goal inside of at the end at the end of the finish line I think that's what COVID really made me clear about and the shutdown really made me clear about like during the shutdown I had to do I had to move and I had to move location and there was a moment this might feel kind of morbid it was like the world my end and the world end I'm not the kind of person that's going to be fighting my way over a wall because I don't want to I'm not going to be that person that's just not me I'm going to be like I've done my service to God in country and I'm ready to be released I don't need to see what happens after the atomic bomb hits I don't need to see that I can be so what I did is I created my home to be my temple I was thinking of the pyramids I was thinking of how you generate a womb like state that allows for regeneration to happen but also legacy and spirituality to be housed and home and what would it mean to imagine the freed black space in which I'm able to occupy this home in which I'm able to call be privileged to call my home what if it was etched with the DNA of my liberation what if it was etched with the DNA of my freedom in life to be so that regardless of what happens to the world outside of me because the world outside of me I can't control what is the spaces in which I can create conditions so that I can find my freedom and know my liberation I mean what's really quite beautiful and I'm going maybe on a little tangent and making me think about this but it's to make me think about the power of the ring shout Shaday and I are working on this project at the Apollo theater which is called the gathering of sonic ring shout and it's making me think about how we as black people have the opportunity have inside of us a DNA of understanding how to shift the modality of oppression as a means not to be our destination but to create safe containers inside of us disrupt it as our normal way of being and I'll only bring up the ring shout as an example so the ring shout for folks who might not know about the ring shout the ring shout was a technology that was brought over by during the transatlantic slave trade many black folks on that treacherous journey brought over a technology that would allow for them during the Antebellum South to find their liberation and the mist of slavery so what would happen is that many black and brown folks would after working the till on the cotton field they would go out into the bushes into the trees into the dark of night would go out into the bushes into the trees into the dark of night would go out into the bushes into the trees into the dark of night when after working in the sunlight right again they want to paint the conditions of what resilience what joy and what magic lives inside of the human body and condition of the black body in particular so after doing all that labor would go out into the field find a sacred space that they wouldn't deem a sacred create a perimeter around that sacred space and start to enact their liberation their church reclaim their body reclaim their spirit reclaim the spaces in which they have been they've been whipped, lashed, degraded and knowing that in the morning that they would go back to being a part of a system knowing that in the morning they would going back to being a part of picking that cotton being a part of that industrial system that they would never, that they would not claim any kind of residual out of right they would just again be a product inside that and a clog inside that wheel and why I say all that to say why I lift that up as a modality is that when I hear you talk Keith about the need for the pause and the need for the reframe and the need for creating that space for your own healing when I think about the work that you have been doing Shade and I think about my own and individual practice of this cocooning I think of three individuals and there are probably multiple ways in which we have done that and multiple if we had more time we had many more folks on this we could probably figure out multiple ways of interventions but how how we have been deliberate and wanting to activate our joy as a sacred act of thrive ability and how we need to activate our joy as a sacred act of how we thrive and how we can thrive yeah as resistance as resilience as our weapon our joy right the unbreakable joy of black folks is the privilege that we get to work in the legacy and the continuum of right I just want to can I just before yeah go for it tag into what you and John there were just talking about and this idea of nature being the real leader actually as far as motivation and aggressive resilience right it's like you know and also like the pausing right because even nature pauses so let me just make up a lot of noise if you're not going to hear me I'm going to make even more noise and I'm sorry folks I know y'all but some of y'all been on my side and advocating for me so y'all just ride with the rack just trust me I'm taking you to the place you need to go right and for me it's just I so appreciate Jonathan sort of illuminating that and just you know Shade just kind of like putting another light on this idea of pause and motivation as the new liberation right and so I just feel like nature is our guide like nature right now is being unapologetic about its needs to be re-craft and re-cure its existence and it doesn't care whose feelings it hurts it doesn't care not at all well that's the power of storytelling right authentic storytelling the earth is telling an authentic story right now exactly keeping all of our conditions because it's unapologetic that is why what we do is a reflection of and is essential the way nature is essential because it is course-correcting whether you like it or not how shit is yes I also just want to uplift this very real thing that as you talk about course-correcting you also talk about blessing you also talk about pause right is that the beauty of because when I just think about this pause that happened and also the amount and I don't want to ever forget this because this reminds me of how privileged and blessed I am the amount of people who were who transitioned throughout this period there's a huge amount of people who transitioned in this period however and not however and the universe is abundant and it's like creating equal balance meaning that the folks who got to survive what privilege do we now have and being to have access to our breath what transformation is called on our lives that we were saved on so many ways to not be a part of that huge vacuum of folks who would transition and who are now guiding us in different ways and a part of this conversation in different ways and what to and what it makes it makes me really really get humbled in a lot of ways of like well then what is my charge to do on this planet how am I supposed to take rest restoration how much was to take care of my health my own life how much to take care of the health of my family and the people that I love and what ways do I have and what ways am I the one inside of this conversation when there were and knowing that balance was created balance is a part of it because we sometimes put good and bad out there we say that was good and that was bad but what if it was all just part of the equation of equal right what if it was part of an equation of not good or bad but just life on life's terms what if we had to wrestle with that because if it didn't happen what transformation or innovation would not happen like we wouldn't be doing this kind of virtual innovation if it didn't happen it would have happened down the road but there was an acceleration that was necessary that energy fell oh right no no no you're like this is why I'm so glad we're talking to each other and it's also this introducing the concept of discomfort across the board for all of us to lean into and have a love affair with discomfort not only to have a leveling of what it might be like to walk in the shoes of other folks who live in a space of ultimate discomfort ultimate otherness in order to have a shared human experience whether that's happening on the level of racial reckoning environmental reckoning like what are the people in the Amazon have been dealing with for generations like the oil what is that discomfort so what does famine look like in Africa that we experience in the hurricane of Ida today like what is happening and I want us all to just dive into that because I'm going to steer this a little bit but like what does what are the questions that are not being asked conversations that are not being had that we get the privilege in this moment in time to ask and to have what this is an extension of and how are we right sizing and course correcting through our observation and experiences of the last years I know get in there oh yeah I mean yeah just pulling from what you're saying like I mean what I was thinking about was this idea of Ida was talking about how do we take advantage or how do we honor the breath that we were given during this situation when so many people transition and I think there's something to say about leadership right because I think there was a recent quote I heard online I think it made from a hip hop artist but they mentioned something about stepping into your stepping into the position that you're in like as opposed to like oh no I really got that kind of power no you do got that we're at a time right now that you have to accept those of us who are leaders have particularly artistic leaders have to accept that we are in a position of power and we are in a position to be heard we are in a position to point in a certain direction or whatever direction that is and really stepping into that and really bringing with that our sort of collective desire for the future right there are collective desire for the present but my bigger point of all that is to say that I mentioned Shadea about all the discourse and the discomfort globally that people have been experiencing for millenniums right not just brown and black people but there's whites who have also experienced discourse in the Appalachian mountains in the eastern part of Europe in the northern part of you know southern part of Asia that connects to Russia like you know what I mean there's a lot of people who have been experiencing discomfort and I think that the more articulate and unafraid and unapologetic about what we need to do whether or not people listen to us or not as leaders we just still have to put it out there and hopefully you know what I mean I just wanted to say that yeah and we have about like 12 minutes left so there's a topic I want to talk about but just to put a pin on it I know that we are both working with an incredible playwright right now James Eims and as you guys love like a blessing to the world that folks are listening to us get into James Eims but as Jonathan is asking us to ask the question how do you turn ghosts into ancestors how do you transform ghosts into ancestors and what is the role of this vacuum that has sucked all of these souls to the other side I think of some of James's work and really contemplating not the moment of trauma and tragedy but the resurrection of possibility out of it and so I just wanted a center and artist who's incredible that we're both working with in this moment so this is where I really wanted to get into in these last minutes that we have left this for the majority of folks who are experiencing our talk are also experiencing an unprecedented representation of black theater especially in the commercial space and so Broadway has an unprecedented seven black plays and shows on Broadway and folks are calling in a renaissance I know I'm stirring it up right now and I just was wondering if you guys could reflect on what's happening from your vantage point right now and if we can talk a little bit about from your perception the difference between black plays and black theater and what are the questions that are being asked and what are the conversations that want to be had that are getting lost in translation one can die just throw it at me I'm going to let Jonathan start with that what is this I think that there becomes a very needed perspective of wanting to understand how calling out creates a mechanism for people to work from not an authentic space of really wanting to create transformation but trying to just put a bandaid over a situation they're just trying to shut it up you think about sometimes instead of actually healing the situation you just try to put a bandaid over it because you're like I don't want to bleed anymore stop making me bleed I don't care just take care of it and I think that when we're thinking about how some of these plays are being brought on or how the plays are being taken care of in the larger we're seeing that bandaid kind of happen quite rapidly and aggressively and in doing that the care that would not necessarily be taken to make sure that it feels whole that it feels taken care of that it feels that it feels like it is dramaturgically and also spiritually and also community wise well done and thoughtful in that way I don't know if it's necessarily being done I think there's an element of sensationalism that's happening inside of sensationalizing black trauma sensationalizing black thought sensationalizing black IP that it would be quite that I don't that and that's actualization you can see the demarcation in some spaces it goes back to was this a pre-pandemic play or was this a play that was made for this time this moment in time that we're actually dealing with this moment in time that we're actually addressing with the human condition like we're allowing this art to give us a glimpse into the human condition of where we are today and and I'm challenged by I'm challenged by the disparity between that curatorial lens it's not it's not it's not it's not equal it's very much wobbly and as I try and as I seek to and I think I try to seek to do this and people might you know everyone has their point of view but it's my mission so it's my life that's how I want to do it I try to uplift every black artist who possibly can I try to uplift them in how and how I come to witness their work if I can carve out as many hours as I can to do that should I do that and how I try to give opportunity provide opportunities for black artists to do their work and a black artist should be able to fail forward my question is that do we have a mechanism that allows them to fail forward and not for that to be their destination do we have a mechanism to capture not as a way in which that tarnishes one's career but a way in which for us and I don't know if we evolved yet to that point but but but when we look at when we look at these are let's honestly look at the reviews that have come out around black work in the New York market in particular some of them have been quite harsh to two black playwrights in particular and I wonder with those conditions actually out there in the world will those black playwrights have been given the same kind of privilege that white playwrights white identify playwrights have been able to have to fail multiple times be invested in multiple times knowing that a trajectory of someone's career is not made off one play trajectory of someone's career and their ability to hone their their voice is made off a durational period and so how are we turning these investments of these moments that are popping up into durational opportunities to develop the human not just to develop your guilt outside of your white supremacy lens if we're not having a conversation about developing the human then this is a momentary conversation that's actually harmful and we're creating harmful conditions for black bodies to engage with and making us think that it is revolutionary when actually it is deteriorating the kind of soulfulness of the black art hmm wow yeah I mean I think you know pulling pulling some from Jonathan I have many thoughts about what's happening as far as the Broadway you know I think that I think it's I think on one level it is an amazing thing to have so many stories that are quote-unquote black stories on Broadway because that's not something that Broadway normally sort of advocates for particularly if they're not musical right so there's a lot of so-called drama type plays right now which is you know kind of revolutionary in context to how Broadway produces you know I so I'm happy for that on a sort of intellectual sort of intellectual level and I'm also you know thrilled that so many black theater practitioners that I know personally or in my community or in our community who are actually working right now right who are actually making those Broadway salaries that we can salaries that are now able to afford their you know their children's you know college tuition and whatever that is right like eat better you know all those things yes really matter for artists so so on an emotional level I'm happy for that I think you know I think it also is important for me to think about the difference between which out of you mentioned there was between black story and black plays and that sort of differentiation like for me like black stories about Barry witness and it's about what sort of like is in the tradition of the black church on Wednesday night when people come to bear witness to what's happened this week and seek out some redemption or some sense of inspiration right or some arc of change like for me like that is black story that's all story but black story in particular that it's important that it functions that way and I'm normally able to detect that when I see a play that this is a bearing of witness of an artist I am also able to detect when plays are curated using Jonathan's language curated in a way that is feeding the white gaze and white consumption that doesn't matter that black people are in the audience or not it doesn't matter that this is very this is just about being sort of unloading whatever ain't that I may have about my own black this is self hate sort of like anti-blackness which is understandable because we all have some residue of anti-black because we're part of a colonialist colonialism and systemic racism so that does exist but then you have situations where most white people are not aware of how settler colonialism works and how anti-blackness works under a systemic racist society so then they advocate for voices that I feel often unevolved voices or voices that are stuck in their anti-blackness and they don't know how to move out of that because they have all these white cultures and not all white people I'm just talking about the sort of structural systemic whiteness that programs who sort of thumbs up that's an amazing story that's a provocative story and they're not thinking about the impact that type of what I call unloading or unleashing that isn't really about bearing witness it's about well I feel safe enough in this white space to say these things but I know I can't say that among black people because they ain't going to accept me and all that kind of sort of like ideology but um but that to me is what I feel that's happening right now on Broadway there's like a nice slice of great sort of like bear witnessing people just telling their stories people like you know showing this is who black people are this is my black experience but there's also this other thing that's happening where it's like white systemic whiteness and consuming whiteness is lifting up this sort of story that isn't really about anything but pleasing and satisfying tantalizing fricking with whatever it is with the white with the white gaze and that to me is detrimental and dangerous and archaic now we're in this world of global sort of like expression and global sort of like alliances like do we still need that like do you know what I mean and I don't want to police anybody because everybody should be able to write whatever they want but everybody should also be able to critique whatever they see right and so what I'm critiquing critiquing without putting any picture on anybody because I'm sure whatever but I'm just saying that I think there is some interesting things happening that is not rooted in black health or even global sort of awareness it's sort of like let me just be whiteness and that to me is problematic I shade I can't believe we got that in first of all that is a whole testimony it is a whole thesis both what you and Jonathan have raised into the space and those are the questions that are not being asked or the conversations have being had and without those questions those answers interrogation I fully believe we are causing violence right the speed by which we get there and I just want that if there's anything to contribute to both of what you said or to offer something is what I take away from what Jonathan said is like culture versus strategy is what happening on Broadway a strategy that feeds into a larger colonial imperialistic capitalist agenda to satisfy stakeholders on for a whole list of for a whole list of good reasons and profit driven reasons right why are all the opening plays where we don't know what the atmosphere or the audience will be or the appetite will be post pandemic while folks are still sick the majority of the plays past this reopening experimental stage do we still have a roster of black stories are we asking each other the question am I bearing witness who's in the audience if we're laughing how are we laughing and who's laughing those questions and then just to pull from what you brilliantly were saying Keith is also this is something I've been thinking about and writing about revolutionary acts versus transformative acts yes and that the revolution which is constantly pinned on black folks back is always a target and can there be sustainable change if you're always the revolutionary taking on that fire right but what is transformational acts look like that creates sustainable shifts and changes paradigm changes that we can have conversations about black storytelling without it being tied to black profits and our audiences so I'm just like when do black people get to rest and not have to be the revolution right right right right because we're having generational conversations about how we transcend survival into thriving and do that if the north star is always a white audience yes yes yes um yes I mean the north star is all the white audience and the critique is always from a white gaze I mean I'm so I am so tired of not being able to critically analyze a piece for both for both where it needs evolution and where it is where it's blind and where it sees right where it wins like we only say good or bad like no if there's gray why can we live in a space right because because like that is not allowing for a wonderful a wonderful like a wonderful reality check to show up that every we all have spaces of evolution that we need to evolve into and and and and like and like if we're not able to critically look at and analyze the ways in which someone lives inside of a trajectory of work right body of work how how how a piece is a part of a continuum but also being able to talk about um ways in which that individual that individual piece visual production because I will say this and I think this is the one main issue and I'll stop right here I think it's unfair I think for the playwrights of a new play that that a review solely only kind of either good or bad talks about the playwright and doesn't give enough critique on the direction that's my personal opinion that like that like it really puts so much weight on the playwright to have to make it so well done when actually the embodiment of the world from it is from the vantage point of the director the director is the person that made many of those choices that that the playwright is being an adverse like in reflection to and I think sometimes when I look at review I I think we let we let we let a very critical voice off of the hook sometimes and we blame and we put so much weight on the playwright or or spotlight on the playwright and we don't nuance the perspective to allow for to allow for it to be a shared weight that goes on with both the playwright and the director that both of them just I want to just also say that what folks don't know from an audience perspective and I learned this firsthand on kind of the front lines of working with government through this moment in time is that the product is not the process and this is what you're saying Jonathan because I also think these producers need to be held accountable about the resources that they're investing in a development process right because it's like are these works developed in the same way and enhancement product enhancement production that has had years of sorry that has had years of development and workshop right this falls on the producers shoulders as well not just the director or the playwright and I guess because I know we could talk about this forever forever forever and ever I also just want to invite folks to say that black folks and black culture isn't a box to be checked which is why it's important to understand that part the difference between culture between black stories and witnessing and checking a box for your own sense of perceived responsibility in a reactive moment in time that I promise you as Shade Litka as the National Black Theater I will never call you out I will always call you in because I see you as more than a box too right yep yep she got real hood on us she got sweat on most hood I didn't see Shade Gidehu in a while she went like she did okay alright I will see a box over one no that's important yeah I want to give you and Jonathan the last words because I also want to be respectful of you guys's time so Keith I'm going to give you a last word and then Jonathan and Keith you all get the last word and I'll take us out okay yeah I mean I you know as a last word I will say that you know this time out or this sort of active time out that's happening right because this is not over has been transformative and continues to be transformative for me as an individual as a human being as Jonathan mentioned as an artist as an artistic leader I really force me to stand much stronger and much steadier in my truth in my POV in what I want for my own personal world my communal world and my sort of artistic world as far as accountability and authenticity and responsibility but without judgment also providing grace because I think there's something to this pandemic that really forced me to understand the importance of grace particularly with people of color particularly of people of the African diaspora who have experience for the last 400 plus years on an international level because we are not the only ones who have been impacted by the Atlantic slave trade and colonialism in other places and still exist there that people need to be given grace and understand what that means and that's why I even say earlier when I was seeing it earlier about what's happening on Broadway and me being able to differentiate between the bare witness scene that's happening there and also the pandering to whiteness that's happening there and the pandering part giving that grace giving those artists grace because I feel like there is still room for recognition or at least awareness if that's indeed what they want because at the end of the day some people don't want that some people can be taken through a pandemic a hurricane a F5 tornado on the emotional level and a physical one and still not want to change their game plan their game plan is whiteness the North Star will always be whiteness I don't care what you say I don't care what kind of molasses you throw in my face my star is whiteness so because of thankfully grace would allow us even those of us who want the best for our communities and each other to sit back and let those folks and let those entities do what they gotta do but we're on another page so I just want to say at the end of the day my last word is during this pandemic during this shutdown I have learned that grace is the engine and the fuel to kickstart I'll say revolution but more importantly transformation I'll say I'll say yes Grace because also I just want to say and I might want to amplify his last word, my last word is that because we don't ever know what's inside, what someone else has experienced and how that experience is creating the condition of what you are seeing of their reality so they might not show up on time they might not respond to that email but why are they not doing that you have no idea especially during this pandemic if it's COVID if it's a COVID scare the fact that they're financially in a scare their health, their families in a scare if they just need mental rest because they've been on so many zooms that they can't fathom how to move left right up and down that the element of grace is deeply important to interrogate not only yourself but how you are in relationship to life and life is with individuals life is with the planet life is with your your dog or your cat or because there's a dog barking I'm just thinking about it so how do you embody grace as a mechanism of liveable conditions not a space where we kind of just again to your point, Shadeh, just check a box just like say they're not doing this they're not doing this and I'm going to ride them off how are we creating graceful conditions for them to be vulnerable and have radical candor be a part of their everyday being if we can create a space for radical candor to show up we will all breathe differently and we would start to move transformatively to a resolve that would allow for us to not have this be our story anymore this is only showing up again in our historical memory because the universe is telling us this is our first time so I'm going to replay 1968 to happen in 2020 and let me see if you can wake up this time and if you don't, I'm going to make it bigger I'm going to make it bigger and I'm going to make it bigger do we want to be that big and that's the question that I ask right wow, I got grace right as I know I promised folks a quick story about National Black Theater of Sweden which I will deliver in my closing remarks the thing about the thing about grace is that it's the alchemy of our humanity grace is something we can all afford grace is what this pandemic has given us in that it connects us all and the power of our storytelling is really getting at the molecular structure human molecular structure of our connectivity grace is something we can all afford and it connects us I will say in closing in 2018 MBT supported some brilliant artists in Sweden to open the National Black Theater of Sweden Jonathan and I had the privilege to go over and work with these Afro-Swedish artists and we were wrestling with storytelling and there was a perception that they weren't any great Afro-Swedish authors and it was because they were living inside a culture that valued storytelling the label in a very specific way and Jonathan and I uplifted that everybody has a story to tell and that if you could tell your story radically, if you could tell your story energetically, you were a writer and that was confusing at first as a concept in this circle that we had created story circle that we created and we said let's all write about a time that brings everyone together so we said what is Sweden you know, Martin Luther King's civil rights moment and we reflect on that for you know, your country and your culture and they said we don't have one our Martin Luther King Jr. moment I have a dream moment was Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. that your protest opened the door for our protests your words and your strategy gave us words and so I in this incredible talk to say that the world is watching and we all have a responsibility to our mother which is earth nature will inform the way and it will always be what we strive to be which is authentic unapologetic unflinching in its honesty and truth and as a result we will shift, we will grow and we will move in the direction because the picture is always being painted and we just have to listen I'm so grateful to the Marseille Center for this award the artists on this talk to be able to share some of us with you a global audience and to say ask the questions that are not being asked and I invite you to have the conversations that are not being spoken about and to lean into the discomfort to be able to illuminate the diamonds within all of us thank you so much for joining me Keith and Jonathan thank you for having us Marseille Center and thank you for this award really and truly it's an honor