s one of the things i think we can all be proud of in this chamber we know that our communities want it and i'm so glad that this continues to be a pillar of the budget going forward thank you thank you we now move to councillor john william as the mover of the original recommendation will reply to the debate and after that we will move directly to effect thank you chair well first of all in response to councillor bygoth i will respond to his question when we deal with questions so that's that's the first thing on the points that were made on councillor Richard Williams talking about the planning budget because that's a net figure that's taking into account the increase in income that planning intend to to do in the coming year they've been very successful this year and increasing their income and i'm sure that that success will continue into the next financial year on the regarding i think the leader opposition referred to a table paragraph 27 which showed our spending and reduced spending and increased spending and you referred to the increased spending for transformation once again you failed to notice that it's actually transformation hr and corporate services and some of the savings are actually attributed to that because we have moved staff from some departments into that department so again you are failing to recognize that that department actually does more than just transformation um i think you know there is a there is a fundamental difference here between the two groups and the fundamental difference is this that lib dem is want to take this council forward a lib dem is want to recognize that the world changes and that we have we need to be working smarter in better ways to ensure that we get better value for what we do for our local residents and one of the ways in doing that is to ensure that we have enough staff to deliver those services and the way we get enough staff in a very competitive labour market is to offer better terms and conditions than other people and we are seeing that that is working the four day week is delivering us more candidates for job positions it is delivering us um filling us filling posts in a permanent way um and not having to overspend our budget to pay for agency staff on short term basis and I get away from this um talk that we haven't met some sort of target in in savings for four day week actually if you go back to the report that was uh the four cabinet in september 2020 we weren't talking about saving a million pounds that figure was what it was costing us at that time you go on to another paragraph lower down it explained that we couldn't possibly fill all those posts that we had um temporary staff in because of various things like they were very short term or they were they had to ask you to sum up please but at the end of the day it meant though we've managed to fill 10 of the most difficult jobs and that was saved as money so what I'm saying is the fundamental difference between your budget and our budget is that we are innovators we are finding ways to find the savings to increase the income and to deliver a better service for our residents thank you councillor williams um I don't recognize this as being my budget or anyone else's um we're debating the uh the general fund revenue budget um and we now move direct to the vote and I'm going to take this vote of course electronically so if you support the recommendation as moved by councillor john williams you vote you press green if you oppose that you press red and of course if you wish to you can stay that's good so yes we are voting on the general fund revenue budget and that is the vote currently up on screen that should be everybody matter right so that proposal and the general fund revenue budget recommendation is approved by 26 votes to seven members before we move on to the next item I'm proposing that we now take a 10 minute break so if you could resume here at 525 this section of South Cambridge District Council meeting uh on 27th of February and for clarity we're now at item 8j the housing revenue account the revenue and capital budget and for clarity we will be taking the revenue and the collect the capital budgets separately under this item um so I call on councillor john williams the cabinet member for resources to present the report and move the recommendations thank you thank you chair um yeah I'd like to move the recommendations with regard to the housing revenue account and the review of rents and charges um it's extremely difficult um for us to um to um put together a budget which is actually going to be able to help us deliver the growth in um the housing program that we need and because the as you know because the housing revenue account is ring-fenced then what uh charges and what income we get for the um housing revenue account um has a bearing on on what we can borrow and and as a result of that what we can spend or what we can build under the capital program so it's not been easy but I think in the circumstances we have no other option but to recommend that the rent increase and also the shared ownership rent for shared ownership but I'll I'll leave it there thank you and you have a seconder councillor bachelor did you want to um speak now or reserve your position to the end in the interest of speed I'll speak now if I could chair thank you very much as councillor Williams has just said um the money that tenants pay has to pay for everything in the upkeep and over 5600 houses that we currently have in with this level of increase which you know we're doing reluctantly but it has to be kept in mind that this is the government formula um so most places will almost certainly be doing much the same um if with this we are running a deficit budget this year and probably next as well um you have to also bear in mind that of our total income from rents more than 20% of that has to go directly to government um in interest charges on the 200 million pounds that we were required to borrow from them and that is an ongoing um cost probably for next 30 years you should also bear in mind that some 40% of our tenants do receive benefits and their rents are either paid in full or in part there we also have support grants because we do recognise that there's a group of people which you might describe as the working poor who don't qualify for benefits but are in desperate need so we have recognised that now providing support there so with our affordable housing next year the average rent will be 126 pounds a week and for our affordable properties it'll be 170 pounds a week this is very considerably as you appreciate below um well well below market rates um represent extremely good value within our um area so other than that I too would recommend remove the recommendations thank you councillor bachelor um does anyone wish to speak on this councillor have them please uh thank you chair so when it comes to the new build programme the capital programme the administration will have our full support however we are concerned about the increases that are being made for affordable rents I appreciate the comments that have been made by councillor john bachelor chair in relation to those on benefits but there is that bracket that are going to be affected by this um and our concern is that there is not sufficient mitigation against that at the moment to be making these increases and also you know we have the the increase on shared ownership as as well I think I appreciate it's a difficult situation and it's hard but I do think there could have been changes and different um allocations of funds in a different approach would have been enabled for the capital programme to be you know pursued whilst not increasing the rents at least not increasing them as much as they were perhaps they could have been a little bit of leeway and I think I think all members will understand our difficult decision to not support support this because of our concerns however um as you know we'll take the revenue bit I I assume the political arithmetic will mean what that will pass and then we will support your capital programme but right now I I'm just not comfortable supporting the increase thank you chair can't slow williams did you wish to respond to the debate um I'll do it at the end I thought you might be at the end that's great good I think as I said earlier you know um the as we all know the housing revenue account is a ring-fenced account and as you can see from the appendix b um that um you know part of the income that we receive from rents has to go towards um the financing of the of the capital programme and the two go together you know so you can't continue to have our good capital programme without having some funding from rents towards it so I as John said we regret this but we've looked at various other scenarios but um we've done some other modelling but at the end of the day if we want good quality council housing we want to continue with the refurbishment of our council housing to bring it up to a really good so that it is inexpensive to live in and we want to build new more council housing to offset not just right to buy but actually increase the housing stock then I'm afraid we have no choice but to increase rents by by the 7.7% right I'd now propose we move to the vote just to be clear the recommendations are on page 231 and we are dealing with the HRA revenue budget that is items 2a, b, c, d, b and f and we will come back to the remaining items of this agenda so on that basis if we could set up the vote we're ready to go um as usual if you accept the recommendations as proposed by councillor John Williams you vote by pressing green if you oppose you vote by pressing red have we all voted that's uh 27 us remaining and the uh the proposal as moved by councillor John Williams was supported by 21 opposed by six so that is passed and we now move back to what you might call the other half of that item which is the HRA capital budget and again I come to councillor John Williams thank thank you chair I I moved the capital program for the housing revenue account and you can see I'm particularly proud that on paragraph 65 on page 242 our record since 2018 of delivering more council houses than have been sold under right to buy or disposed of in other other ways and you can see there that over the past 10 years we've now ended up with a net gain of 46 council houses it seems to you know be an awful lot to to be able to do that but as you can see in years past this council has suffered by the right to buy scheme with our best housing stock being having to be sold and and that's not having the means to to replace it until the government changed its regulations and allowed us to build more homes so you know I'm very pleased that um we are we've turned the corner and we are now starting to increase accounts from housing stock and uh and I'm you know this this administration is determined that we should continue on that path council John bachelor yeah happy to second this nothing further to add councillor other ones thank you and I think it is important what we're referencing between you know previous decades um on this that we do appreciate that there were very different circumstances as councillor John Williams said about the right to buy changes but also there was a requirement for us to sort of take down rents as well and in certain times when the economic situation was difficult so as far as I'm concerned both the previous administration did their best to in the parameters they were working in and I hope on this and we are supporting the Lib Dem's current administration proposals to try and get the maximum out of this we've always always agreed on that shows that we can agree sometimes before I go back to council John Williams do we have any other speakers on this item councillor John Williams did you want to add anything to what you said I think maybe we can take this one by affirmation proposed I agreed thank you so we now move on to item nine which is the council tax resolution for 2024-25 and you'll find this on page 259 onwards of your printed papers and I come to council of John Williams to propose the recommendation thank thank you I'm not going to make one speech I'm just going to propose a recommendation on the paper thank you and you have a seconder council leader thank you leader does anyone wish to speak on this item councillor Heather Williams just for clarity chair just you know we don't want to rerun if we can the debate of the fund but I think it's pretty clear that we're not happy with council tax increases and we'll vote against the resolution do I have any other speakers on this item councillor Williams do you have anything to add let's move straight to an electronic vote please so those in favour of the recommendation is moved by council John Williams it's green and those opposed it is red I think we may have one more to vote have we didn't see anyone leave the room okay so all of those present have voted I think we want to vote give us a moment right so all of those present we want to devote have done so and that council tax resolution as proposed by councillor John Williams is passed by 21 votes to six I will just pause for a moment to let councillor Stelbot return to his seat before we move on to the next item well we now move on to item 10 which is the review of polling districts and polling places and I will present this report as chair of the civic affairs committee the civic affairs committee recommends that council approves the adoption of a revised schedule of polling districts and places as laid out in appendix a which starts on page 283 and I think it's important to bear in mind that while the attorney officer is independently responsible for running elections the council upon recommendations of the civic affairs committee has responsibility for keeping polling districts and places under review and there have been several changes to our existing polling district arrangements proposed creating new polling arrangements for Canborn, deleting an obsolete polling district, updating arrangements for Mali and for Impington South and also councillor Garvey has had to leave us but on a query that she's there oh she I beg upon councillor Garvey gave me her apologies immediately before we started this item and my eyesight is obviously defective I think it was councillor Garvey who raised the query regarding the polling district arrangements in Eddington and revised arrangements there are part of this proposal um and so the the returning officer will keep under review the arrangements used in Canborn, Histon and Impington, Gamlingay and Milton so with that the civic affairs committee has recommended met in December and has recommended to council the adoption of the revised schedule as set out at appendix a does anyone want to speak on this item councillor John Williams thank you chair can I just ask that light cam gertran and we had Stoke-unquay district split between the new development in Mali and the village and it would be helpful if we also had a map showing the the new arrangement for Mali that's exactly where the boundary is or who's in the still in the village and who's in the new development that would be very helpful I'm good to refer that to I think the answer is yes we can produce such a map similar to the one on page 289 councillor Heather Williams thank you chair and apologies if I missed it but I wasn't oh we know you moved it I wasn't sure if I heard a seconder if you haven't got one I'm willing to give a seconder but I didn't hear it sorry um on on the item itself I think perhaps I want to I need all to ask councillor Paul Bairfark to second it formally before we yes I'm very happy to second motion chair thank you for that councillor Heather Williams if you'd like to start again that thank you um well I don't need to offer to second it now so that's what hopefully that means you can take by affirmation um just as I normally do put the the call out about making sure that we're always checking in on Tadlo because it's what I think the only one where it's in somebody's house they very kindly open up their house but I do think that's something you know um I get nervous if they ever consider selling their house thank you any others wish you'd speak on this councillor Dan Lantel thank you chair I'm assuming that the William Highgate being deleted SD2 is why we've now got for over on William page 286 William South for parishes of William and North Stove Bowman Hall and North Stowe community centre um those two locations are not especially close to each other um what what is there an explanation for that thank you I'm going to ask the head of electoral services to respond to that hi councillor Lentel that's um no William Highgate was created because of a community governance review that took place between William and over a few years ago uh the boundaries have now rationalised and become the case we don't need that polling district anymore it was between the two parishes it doesn't serve a purpose anymore William South is because of new parliamentary constituencies being formed along war boundaries a different time to when our wards were created so it needs to be there because of the moment in the current parliamentary constitution it's a very technical answer sorry in the current parliamentary constituencies it falls in a different constituency to the rest of William once the new constituencies constituencies are in place we will be able to in a future review of William South as well I hope that makes sense yes councillor Lentel so just to confirm this would be a polling station for residents uh along the old long stance and uh parish boundary this isn't for the whole of the village William South is is a very small polling district this is between William and North Stove thank you a map would be very useful um any any councillor who wants to talk to me about maps i'm happy to help thank you so we have an assurance of map and I I fear the assurance I secured for councillor John Williams previously this is illegitimate because the motion hadn't then been seconded but I'm pretty sure we'll still manage to come up with a map um any others wishing to speak on this councillor Richard Williams tiny point chair page 287 in regard to Wittlesford if there's the parish of triplo triplo parish change its name to the parish of triplo he feels so good if we can update that yes um I think we may need to just check subsequently all the formalities that change of name to go through have been completed but I'm sure that can be a comedy yes right well look I don't see oh I do see a councillor Tom Byger thank you just on that earlier point um for my colleague councillor Lentel um the middle of these um three um columns uh where in Willingham South it talks about the parishes of Willingham and Northstow um are those the the locations where the polling stations are situated or where the um electors live because it's where the polling place is uh I'm good okay so um it says the parish of Willingham and Northstow but Northstow is actually a town rather than a parish that's one I'm certainly going to replace the head of electoral registration a town is a style of a parish so I think it's technically okay um the polling place is an area in which the polling is returning off from the site of polling station uh so it's always historic to be in the case in South Cambridgeshire that we've usually defined polling places to be quite broader areas in case we ever end up with a situation where a polling station becomes unavailable late in the day and so for Willingham South we have to define it as two polling districts because the polling station has to move depending on which election is happening so for those electors a parliamentary election if there was to be a bi election in the South Cambridgeshire constituency now those people would have to go to a different polling station so that's why we have to define the such I'm happy to change this is a live talk it's no problem for me to change it to a town of Northstow that's fine I'm happy to do that uh so I oh yes council have done them and told you have had a previous question and a comeback did you want to come to us again yeah just so long as Willingham comes before Northstow that's fine thank you let's now move to a vote um can we take this by affirmation I propose that we so do so we now move to item 11 which is the pay policy statement um and this is on pages 291 onwards correct and I call on council John Williams to present the report and move the recommendation thank you chair I move the recommendations on page 291 you'll see the report is as it says we are required to produce the statement and it looks back over the previous year um I'm pleased to say that our ratio the pay gap reporting ratio has slightly improved and we're now ratio one to six or just over ratio one to six um and that can we continue to have a mean gender pay gap or median pay gender pay gap in favour of females otherwise I'm happy to see and you have a seconder thank you leader council British Smith um does anyone want to speak of this item council I have the Williams thank you chair just just a couple of things um on page 300 and 301 I appreciate what's been said about the ratio being one to six point one but be careful how you read that looks like a lot of false stops but I think I'm writing six point one um it says that council does not have a policy on maintaining or reaching a specific pay ratio and I'm between the lowest and highest paid colleagues and I think this is something about equality is particularly with what's been happening with the four day week trial that's something that has concerned us most definitely when we had a situation where you had waste service and manual workers in 32 and desk space 30 I appreciate efforts have been made to change that but equally we can see again in the staff employment papers that there's an attempt to take away or provision to take away market supplements in waste but not in other departments and not in desk space departments so whether there's actually true parity going on in relation to that is yet unknown and I'm just wondering whether it would be advisable I would urge I know I know we're required to this but I would urge a policy on this because I think it's really important um there is also no reference to the four day week I think that is a mistake I think it should be included um and earlier on it was said about incentives um for people and actually I think on page 299 I was quite shocked with pensions 17% pension is quite an incentive local government I work for my mother and I don't get anywhere near that so I'll have to be taking that up um but also and what was said yes positive on the gender pay gap I accept that it means that but I do long for the time when we don't have to have gender pay gaps and actually it's not positive or negative it's just the best person for the job um and that's something that I hope that I see in my lifetime any other speakers councillor John Williams did you want to respond thank you yeah we'll take on board that so we now move to a vote let's be clear that we do not have a proposal in front of us to introduce a formal policy of improving that ratio but that is a suggestion which John Williams has said we can take on board so with that I think we now move to a vote I would propose that we do this by affirmation agreed thank you so we now move on to the swavesy byways rate for 2024-25 before I call on councillor Henry Bachelor I just want to ensure that there are no members present who may have a cunior interest in this matter good um so councillor Henry Bachelor thank you chair so usually this is quite an uncontroversial item it comes before us every single year at the budget meeting because we have to set the rates for the byways but this year we do have a slightly bit of controversy in the way that the word byways is spelt in the report so you'll see there has been an inclusion of a controversial letter E my view is that it doesn't shouldn't have the E but regardless of that we have the report as it is I would like to say or two thanks firstly to officers for obviously drawing the paper up and doing a lot of the negotiation with the relevant land owners who it's worth noting our ruling agreement with this particular rate which hasn't actually increased from last year so it's still set at £1.20 per hectare and secondly also to councillor Sue Ellington who I know is instrumental in these negotiations and where she here today I would have asked her to second this particular paper but I understand that a member of her group will be seconding on her behalf and does have a statement on Sue's behalf on behalf to read out so yeah I'd very much like to put this forward to council thank you chair councillor the Williams I think you have agreed to second this in Sue Ellington's absence I have as unfortunately she's had some sad family news so yes um and I have a statement from her happy to take that when Sue's will post I can make it now if you so wish yes I think it'd be suitable to read out that statement now if you would I will try to channel Sue but I don't think it'll work so I'll just read it as it is um so this is from councillor Ellington Swaysy Byways committee have managed the Byways she uses a knee by way over the year the dry summer helped to maintain a good surface with the grader the use of the grader to mechanically resurface has set a precedent in that instead of the local farmers carrying out the work by hand a contractor has been paid to use the grader unfortunately the very wet winter has resulted in the need for significant repairs as soon as it is drier however there is adequate finances available to carry out the work so that's that's the endorsement of councillor Ellington and in our group if Sue's happy we're happy so um I think you can take it by affirmation chair right okay so I suppose we take this vote by affirmation yes you were right I think I'm going to have to move to a separate vote on the E no it's not on the agenda uh report of the independent remuneration panel that members announce his scheme for 2023-24 um I'm going to call on the elections and democratic services manager to present this report Henry Francis thank you chair um this is the report of the independent remuneration panel uh I think the recommendations of the panel um hopefully very self-explanatory on page 309 of your agenda pack uh paragraph one um yep I don't think there's anything else to add to that right uh may I ask if we have a proposer councillor Milne's proposes you wish to speak to it yes very briefly um this is rather late coming forward and is uh from the current financial year rather than the next one because there was a delay while we replaced one of the members of the IRP it's also lower than inflation so we're taking a move backwards in terms of remuneration from a fairly low base still we didn't take the suggestion of the IRP back in 2018 and we've taken lower um than recommended on a couple of occasions since but I'm happy to support this recommendation at 5.4 percent um and um we'll revisit this issue again for next year before too long thank you and I believe councillor Macdonald you're going to second that do you want to uh to speak why just we do the end of the end if this if that is not the end so does anyone else which uh speak to this item councillor Heather Williams thank you chair just doing my job I don't particularly enjoy speaking this much um but uh I can understand why it's tempting and like councillors like everybody else are dealing with the cost of living but for me at this time it doesn't feel the right thing I'm pretty sure we say that it's small amounts but but I think there is some symbolic that we could do in saying that we're with people and that we're not going to to put it up um and it would be a small sacrifice for us to do but would actually probably mean quite a lot especially in a meeting where we've just you know had the council vote in favour of putting up the tax burden on residents it doesn't sit right it doesn't feel right um and we won't support it councillor damlan top thank you chair um I don't think there's anything we can do as a council uh that more angers and frustrates residents than to put up council taxes in a meeting uh put up council house rents in the same meeting and then vote that money into our own pocket now I appreciate the point that's made it's a small amount and I think that the principle uh is one that is rather binary um therefore I would strongly like to suggest uh the American constitution's 27th amendment um interestingly it was written by James Madison but didn't get ratified until the early 1990s and it essentially goes along the lines that uh remuneration for senators and congressmen should not change until an election has happened. Now I think that the job that we do is very important I think the work that um councillors do is um very significant in our communities but and I do think that the remuneration needs to keep a pace particularly with the cost of living but what we could do is to say we're going to take the tough choice but we're not going to take it for ourselves that's the bit that doesn't sit well with me that's the bit that's the reason I'm going to be voting against this and I would honestly urge folks we're here to represent residents this is not something our residents want us to do they do not want us to increase our own remuneration um and I will look forward to hearing from the uh the parliamentary candidates in the room on this subject thank you councillor dr Richard Williams thank you very much it's a short point hopefully I'm I agree with what councillor Heather Williams has said in general but I just want to flag up this new special allowances for members of the combined authority and um I think we do seem to be getting into a space where the committee allowances are a bit old because there are a number of committees where members which don't receive any allowance at all that includes JDCC which is a really significant amount of work um so you know you don't get anything for civic affairs again all of these committees carry significant work load so it does slightly worry me that we're introducing new um allowances for specific committees and we're getting into a very odd space of some that get allowances and some that don't I think that needs a comprehensive review if we're going to have these allowances for committee members before I return to councillor John Williams to respond do any other members want indeed before I return councillor Brian Mills do any other members want to speak on this debate councillor Peter Macdonald you reserved your position so it's now your opportunity to thank you I'm trying to be brief um rather like councillor Mills I'd like to thank the members of the IRP it's an independent process of course independent panel members they're not paid a great deal of money and I think for what they do they do a great job um everybody in the chamber will be aware that many members here have full-time jobs in addition to the council responsibilities and moreover a lot of members here are the family bread winners sometimes and it's happened to me our employers request us to take leave to attend meetings in council and our family suffer less time with us as as a result and we should never forget these considerations um last year I gave some input along with other councillors to review in a benchmarking of our allowances and that benchmarking last year found that we were well below most comparable councils in hunts east cams city and fenla. So on the proposals we have here at the moment the south cams allowance for example is already a thousand pounds below the basic allowance east cams and east cams conservatives have just voted to increase the basic allowance by 12 percent um and that would be then 1100 pounds above even the proposed new allowance that we have in south cams. So I think the increases are proposed here by the panel takes account of inflation takes account some count of the time members have to spend traveling for example outside south cams for combined authority workers um Richard Williams mentioned I think most importantly and lastly as we go forward we have to encourage people from a wide section of society to be able to join the council it's very important for the health of this council and I think the recommendations from the IRP make some efforts to recognize the investment of time and family commitment that people put in and we'd encourage people to come forward for this council in the future. Thank you chair. Thank you for this. Do you also add to I'm just going to say one thing in response to the council of lentels remarks because I think generally there's a sense of dissatisfaction with the process where we have to vote for our own remuneration. It ought to be different it ought to take it ought to be more inclusive more younger people should be able to come to these rather than as gray hair heading for retirement but not yet a situation so but I still recommend it to to the council and thank you. Thank you. Now I believe I may have missed council Tom Beigert council Beigert for the problem that I have is that we have now summed up the debate and therefore I'm reluctant to take further contributions to it. Do you wish me to suspend that decision? I think I probably have a discretion to do so if I've pressurized. Yeah could I do a point of information? Oh yes.  Does that deal with your point of information council budget? That it was not the council tax but the members' allowances that were put up in Eastcams as I understand it. Okay good. Now we now move to a vote it's clear to me we will need to do this electronically and before we do that I just want to clarify where we are on this. Just want to remind members we're talking about the current year's allowances and not next year's allowances and these are the recommendations of an independent panel that we appoint. I've no doubt that some of the comments which were made in this debate can be taken account in relation to next year's allowances. So we come to the vote which is to agree it's as on page 309 to agree three things. An increase in the basic allowance to 5,800. An increase to all the special responsibility allowances of 5.44% back dated to the start of the current year and a new special responsibility allowance 580 to members of three new committees of the combined authority. I take the point that there may be some inconsistency here but I think that is a matter for the IRP to be invited to consider on a future occasion. So with that I would ask that we go to an electronic vote if you accept the support, the recommendation has put forward proposed by Councillor Mills then you will vote green. If you oppose that then you would press red. Right. Is that everyone? Yes. So the recommendation on the report of the independent remuneration panel is passed by 22 votes for 5 votes against. Now before we proceed to any other business I have to ask somebody to propose that we should continue beyond the four hours limit. Councillor Brown Mills, do I have a seconder for that? Can we take that? Yes, I think I'll take these. Councillor Graham Cohn, thank you for seconding that. Can we take that by affirmation? Thank you. Right, we can now proceed to next business and this brings us to item 14, the calendar of meetings and I call on the elections and democratic services manager to present the report. Thank you chair. Just as per page 323 of the agenda this is to approve the calendar of meetings for the next new school year. Does anyone wish to speak to this item? I propose this. It may well be that somebody else was meant to but I just proposed it. Who wants to second it? Councillor Anna Brandon has seconded it. Thank you. So does anyone, now that we have seconded and proposed it, does anyone want to speak to it? Councillor, how do we do this? Thank you. Just that we did use to have a provisional date put in for even March or April and that's a meeting that seems to have been lost and the only reason I say that we used to put that in because sometimes we do have business that we need to sort out but before regulated periods and sometimes it's fine within it but it's a lot easier to take something out of our diaries than it is to try and find a date to put in it so it might be worth in the future just keeping that provisional date as we've done in previous years. I suspect that we can in fact keep provisional dates without them formally being approved as part of this calendar unless I'm corrected on that so having taken account of that can we then move to a vote? I think we can possibly do this by affirmation. I propose we do so. Can we do that? Is that agreed? Thank you. So we then come to the reports firstly of the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority. The reports are before you. Do our representatives on the combined authority have any comments they wish to add to that? I see none. I see certain amount of concern on the faces of certain councillors. Did anybody wish to comment? Sure. Normally it's just a question of taking questions. Is it not? Perhaps you can say that again slightly more loudly. Sorry. Normally it's just a question of taking questions from members to any of our representative members. Yes I have invited any representatives on the combined authority if they wish to comment before we do that. Do any of our representatives wish to do so? Then we can take questions and just for clarity the combined authority representative is concerned I think are the Councillor Bridget Smith on the combined authority board, Councillor John Williams' substitute. On the overview and scrutiny committee, Councillor Judith Ripeth has now stood down. Councillor Aidan van der Veier is not here. I've now replaced Councillor Judith Ripeth on that and then on the Audit and Governance Committee, Councillor Jeff Harvie who is also not here. So any questions to our representative on the combined authority board, Councillor Heather Williams? Thank you chair. Throughout the report it does go into the Audit and Governance but I do believe this was seen by the board so whoever there was a representative on the day might be able to give some clarity. It is a bit of a sorry read. I'm not on the combined authority so we are reliant on our representatives feeding back to us and it is worrying in relation to the bullying references and the code of conduct complaints that are put inside it. We also can see that although we've not seen the report ourselves that the Mayor has apologised so I assume there's been, I think it's been quite clear there has been some wrongdoing by somebody somewhere for that to happen. It's very difficult for people in the public domain to really grapple with what has happened here and it's really worrying and is concerning because as has been said before officers of our council go and work and work with people at other authorities, they have meetings, we send councillors there and it's very difficult because we can't really see what's happened but what I also would like confirmed is whether any members of our council have seen in full the documents that relate to this and if they have did they agree to have them private so it couldn't be seen. I appreciate names might need to be redacted of the victims but we should have a bit more transparency that we've got and given what has gone on how is our board representative and our representative will combine authority as a whole. How do they feel about all this and should we be as worried as it appears in the papers? Councillor Bridget Smith. Okay what a shame to bring this up again quite honestly so I've spoken at length about this in the past there's a very very detailed report in Appendix 5 and the most critical so no I have not seen the report nor as far as I'm aware has any member of the board it was a recommendation of the independent panel that it was inappropriate for the report to be shared and therefore it was not shared so I haven't seen it but if you look at 9.4 it says based upon the evidence before primarily the report she was the view that the information contained in it supported its findings in conclusion that the mayor Dr Nick Johnson had breached the CPA's code of conduct in relation to civility and disrepute and you know on 9.3 it said there was no justification for any accusations of bullying and harassment and confidentiality and access to information for the accusations made there so you know the combined authority needs to get on and do its job and a line needs to be drawn under this it was all dealt with very very properly by an independent committee and it helps no one to keep on dragging this up so I am very confident that everybody is safe and happy at the combined authority and we need to carry on and get the job done of delivering on all the jobs that it is its responsibility to do council other williams I wanted to come back in I think thank you chair um I was very careful in the words that I used but I don't think it's a shame and I do not apologise for seeking reassurance about the safety of councillors and officers and I think to be so dismissive that is what was shameful there so okay so I am not being dismissive of this but you know we have rehearsed it in this chamber in in the past a full investigation has been undertaken all the evidence from that that report is in front of you you're aware that the mayor has apologised to whoever um and has carried out all recommendations so it's all been done and just you know potentially you know doing further damage damage to the reputation of the combined authority is not helpful council of dan lentell I think you had a question on this thank you I a million pounds was spent on this ethics report a million pounds when the people pay for something they should get to see it and the issue is not I don't think anyone has suggested that the mayor um has acted in inappropriately himself it's whether he allowed or encouraged behaviors which is covered on page 343 but the reality is this is about people feeling safer work we now know in the public domain that former employees have PTSD we know that they're not getting references to go and work elsewhere I'm sorry this is just here say I'm sorry I cannot cannot allow these these unfounded accusations to be made in a public place I'm afraid council's questions we can take them is okay is uh councillor uh Anna Bailey of East Cambridgeshire district council is she a liar because all I don't think that's the question we can take here council lentell before you proceed any further excuse me chair mine to all members here that we approve the minutes of the meeting on 30th of November and I'm just going to read to you the relevant paragraph the leader reported that a cross party committee had reached a unanimous decision regarding the imposition of sanctions on the mayor due to a lack of leadership regarding his response to a matter that had taken place two years ago the kind combined authorities monitoring officer had advised that it was not in the public interest to publish the full investigators report the leader that is council Bridget Smith expressed the hope that the combined authority could now focus on working hard for the residents it represented I would not want this this council to keep coming back to matters which we have dealt with fairly thoroughly in previous meetings council lentell did you want to add a specific question to your I don't want any allegations if you don't mind if you keep it to a specific question then I'll ask councillor Smith to respond given that councillor Smith opposed the creation of this office and quite rightly I've seen the speech she gave you it's a very good speech in which sorry what is your question councillor the question is why is it so important that an office that was never going to work be defended in this way that's the bit that I simply see or I do not understand why is it so important to defend an office this is fundamentally unworkable councillor Smith do you want to take that question so so that that is your opinion we we are a it's a combined authority we are part of the combined authority whether I at that time supported its creation is neither here nor there we've now got it and it's incumbent on us and in the best interest of our residents and of delivering value for money that we work with it and make it work and do not do what other people are doing which is try to take it down and destroy it it is not in the best interest of our residents now I'm prepared to take one more question on this did we have any any fresh questions on this I think not I'd councillor Williams no um you have had a question on this you have had do you do you really want to come back to it again or do you feel we can move on yes I have thought I saw councillor Williams put his hand up but in fact he was just telling me he was leaving so we don't usually allow further comments on this but if you want to I will use chair's discretion to allow it thank you and I respect that that's your decision and that other members should not be instructing you as chair as to whether you should or not should take things my question I do feel is unanswered because I asked whether arrangements were in place for our staff and councillors and have we checked as a council whether any of our staff because actually things like this can be incredibly difficult to come forward particularly if it does become big and that's not been answered chair I'm going to intervene here because I think we did if I recall address those issues at our meeting on the 30th of November so I am reluctant to even put those questions to the leader I do not want us to keep going around in circles on this issue when we have already discussed it fully do you want me to ask the leader to address that question are you happy that this is a matter that can be checked we're here to discuss the papers it's in the papers and that might be inconvenient but no I would like an answer to my questions it's not a matter of convenience it's a question of whether it has already been dealt with on a previous meeting we'd make a point of not coming back to matters we have already dealt with as recorded in the minutes of the last meeting councillor Smith do you want to add a further comment or shall we leave that all I'm going to say is that you know the under under the current mayor which absolutely was not the case under the last mayor all the chief executives of all the local authorities are heavily involved in the organisation they are all the heads of paid services and I am absolutely confident that all the chief execs will be doing it will be ensuring the safety of all their own staff for whom they are responsible I don't know if Liz Watts wants to add anything chief executive you want to add anything thank you chair I'm happy to confirm that I've got absolutely no concerns whatsoever about this issue I think that is as far as we can usefully go on that matter now we don't need to take a vote on this we merely need to note the updates the reports so can I take it that is noted thank you greater Cambridge partnership and this is on page 379 onwards council is invited to note the decision summary from the great Cambridge partnership this is not of course the minutes or the draft meeting draft minutes of the meeting do our representatives on the gcp have any comments to make councillor Brown knows any questions for councillor Brown knows I see none and again we only need to note this item so this item is noted item 17 the Oxford to Cambridge pan regional partnership and the notes on this are on pages 383 to 386 does the leader of the council want to add anything to these report can we note the reports as tabled by affirmation is that acceptable 383 to 386 can we note that report I agree by affirmation you want to speak on it good councillor Heather Williams thank you um so on this I have said before that I am concerned at the lack of it I mean it's a very small I mean blink and you miss it um and it's something that is meant to be doing a lot of work and I would encourage and ask our representative to put a bit more flesh into the report so I appreciate some of it will come from other places but there's nothing stopping um more being given we've not even had an introduction to it I just I just think considering what it's doing and I know we'll be told there's a website but actually there's more to transparency than a website it's not the answer to everything uh before I ask the leader to comment um I'm going to comment myself which I don't usually do um I don't think that members of this council would appreciate the agenda papers being increased in length by very much beyond 386 pages I do think however that a number of members of this council have an interest in finding out more about the Oxford to Cambridge pan regional partnership and that there might be other ways of accommodating that interest but leader I don't whether you would like to comment on this or indeed Chief Executive who I think wrote the report thank you so I'm going to say there's a website and there's full disclosure and transparency on the website right thank you for that um membership of item 18 there we are yes item 18 membership of committees and outside bodies so do the group leaders have any changes to committee membership they wish to share with council um leader thank you very much chair um yes um counsellor ripeth has been replaced on the planning committee by counsellor red grubb and counsellor garvey is the new substitute counsellor ripeth has been replaced on the cpca scrutiny committee by counsellor fein with counsellor stobart is a new substitute and counsellor martin carne has been replaced on scrutiny overview committee by counsellor bear park thank you very much to those members who have served and those who are agreeing to serve in the future thank you leader does the conservative group leader have any changes to announce as of 10 seconds ago yes um could I please put counsellor tom bygott as substitute for the jdcc in the place of counsellor graen coan thank you right we now move to questions for counsellors and I remind everyone that a period of 30 minutes is available for questions uh this includes questions where notice has been provided as set out with the agenda and if there is time remaining after those questions um we'll deal with questions which have been notified the elections and democratic services manager before the start of this meeting I think there were none no so and I think we will probably be kept busy with the questions we have on this year so I start with um counsellor helan lean could I could I just suggest something I don't know if all members would um acknowledge and and support it or uh written answers to be given so we could go to motions that is a one suggestion counsellor heather Williams chair that would literally be removing our right to supplementary questions I think if if members aren't present then written answers and if individuals want to but I wouldn't agree to a blanket because it does remove the supplementary right would you accept that counsellor? Yes I share your concern at that point but I think we have to allow members their their opportunity I'm not going to take further comments on this I regard that matter as a result so I come to the first question which has been submitted by counsellor helan leaning thank you chair and as written as on yes um and I'm going to respond to this uh the question to remind you is how to celebrate the 50th anniversary and the council will be celebrating that 50th anniversary on the 20th of march at 6 p.m in the street downstairs uh we have invited a number of speakers um there will be entertainment by I think two local groups and an opportunity to review and to view some of the key events that have happened throughout our last 50 years with a small exhibition in the swanley room um during the afternoon we will plant a tree to commemorate the 50th anniversary the Deputy Lieutenant has been invited to uh join us for that together with one of our apprentices um and of course all councils are invited as our long-serving colleagues uh this work the planning work on this has been undertaken by a cross-party councillor group um supported by the Tervi our democratic services team leader and of course all members are very welcome to be there and we do encourage you to apply as soon as possible so that we can organise the catering I'm going to add one thing which is that there are a certain number of members who did not come back for various reasons at the last elections and if any members are unable to attend and think it will be appropriate to pass on their invitations to whether to members of the group or to or to others who were um members councillors here until very recently that would be fine I would also add that the um there will be no alcohol at the event um because um we don't have a licence for it and um I'm told that members can bring their own alcohol but I'm not proposing to make this a BYOB party so I think we will have an alcohol-free event and enjoy it uh thank you councillor Leeming did you have a supplementary no um councillor Sally Ann Hart gone we'll give councillor Hart a written answer which is what she was happy to do councillor Eileen Wilson um has written has written I believe councillor Bill Handley is going to respond yes thanks chair um this is about the cost of living work that the council has been doing for some time now um delivering innovative solutions to help um the at-risk residents of south camps to survive them through the cost of living crisis that work's been continuing um 500 electric blankets were delivered directly to residents uh of which 421 were targeted directly at individuals on certain disability benefits and who are receiving councillor council tax support um with other blankets uh the remaining blankets being distributed by the council's income maximisation officers and GP practises um the mobile food hub which was set up in the summer of 23 has now expanded visit six villages each week and there's a seventh due to join the schedule soon the six villages identified were were identified by mapping uh sort of deprivation data from the council against where current food banks already operate um and uh mobile food hubs will bridge the gap between existing services um in addition to these schemes we're now finding new ways to sign post residents to the support that is available and which comes at a no extra cost to this council an advertising campaign's been run um we're encouraging residents to apply for the support which they're entitled a sponsorship initiative with the Cambridge independent newspaper and advertisements on guided bus busway um saw visits to the council's cost of living web support web page more than double um and uh we're also from from this year we were advertising um advertising was run from the council's own facebook page which had a reach of almost 25 000 people uh and finally officers ran a an online training online training sessions aimed uh this time at professionals and community volunteers who work with vulnerable individuals it's thought that speaking to them via these sort of people who already have their trust can overcome reluctance to engage uh because of the perceived stigma associated with seeking help in this way so um i think i'll leave it there i could add more but um i wouldn't encourage you to add more and before we move to our next question um i should say that we have a lot of questions to deal with and brevity in answering them would be appreciated um our next question then is from councillors yes i'm bygipard but councillor Wilson do you have a supplementary i don't have a supplementary but i'm just very pleased to hear about all the initiatives that help our residents for pure need thank you our next question is from councillors sinita hanzaraj um yes thank you chair has written has written thank you and i believe councillor bill hamlee is going to respond to this at um rather shorter length and briefs it's a shame because we've got such good news to impart i've got such good news to impart but anyway yeah the western park sports pavilion and north stair was opened in january um elite sports managed the pavilion and all of the associated sport pitches demand is really strong um the um it's already been well used by local clubs particularly since also the grass pitches were unplayable because of water logging um one thing i really want to say is that some of the 4g pitch the artificial pitch is open at certain times for use by young people free of charge and really pleased about that um i think again in the bet in the in the interest of time um i will make my full answer available um if that's okay with you chair yes i think that is something that would be encouraged in all these cases if we could have a brief verbal answer and the full answer made available in writing and i then move to the next question for councillor dan lentell thank you sorry yes is there a supplementary councillor no supplementary no supplementary um so i then move to the next question from councillor dan lentell thank you chair as on on the order paper and i'm very happy to take a written response that's very helpful thank you uh i'm sorry if you haven't been asked the question i can't invite you to give an answer councillor dan lentell did you want to review your original decision are you happy to take a written response i i i fear that uh has been made clear about the lack of security in the hall that i don't want to be attacked for keeping trespassing on everyone's time councillor lentell thank you for your consideration i'm sorry councillor bachelor that you will not have the opportunity to give you a verbal response but you will be able to give the the written response um it does also mean that councillor then tell will not get a supplementary uh we then move on to councillor heather williams i'm afraid that councillor the leader has had to leave us i don't know whether anyone else wants to respond and have half councillor john williams yes thank thank you chair just to say that um this is a subject of uh this was a subject of member briefings uh last week and uh it will be in the report going to employment staff committee on Thursday and they would add that back in uh november um it was quite clear that um the trial that the when the trial finished um the practice four day week practice would continue until the report was produced councillor williams did you have a supplementary thank you chair and i'm sure members will appreciate obviously the the submission date for questions was prior to the briefing i do appreciate that um but do you does the leader or the person speaking behalf of the leader really think it's acceptable for us to have to wait that long for something that affects all of our residents i think as we said that we should wait till the end of the trial so that the full 12 months of the death base trial can be taken into account also of course we've only just started the the trial and the waste services um but as i say both of that uh areas will be um part of the report well has been published so you know what's in the report the report's been published for Thursday's meeting and uh i'm no doubt we will discuss it then but our next question is from councillor Graham Cone as on the order paper chair and i think councillor Brad Milans is to respond yes so in the pursuit of brevity um i'm going to report councillor Cone for a brilliant timing because we launched the new insights last week uh it's available uh it's imperfect still a working progress but uh we're putting all the information that we can in there uh so it's a a major step forward and i think nickel simpson and the team for the work that they've done in producing that finally getting over our tenancy issues with access or not to various resources that we've had to work around thank you uh so councillor Cone did you have a supplementary uh just just briefly so i thank Brian Milans for that answer and i'm glad that we've now had it for what two working days prior to this question being asked having been without it for months and two systems not working not serving councillors so we can get to officers to answer our questions which has been chaotic to say the least i am pleased that officers have finally got this sorted out because it it needs to be sorted out for all of our benefits would he agree that um it needs to be kept up to date so things like uh officers phone numbers work phone numbers uh working hours the day that they are not here because of the four day working week and uh when they are not and in the office would be really helpful as well so when they are working from home or when they plan to be in the office um would also be helpful or councillors thanks very much councillor Milans yes so very quickly um agreed with everything except the uh where they are um i'm really not sure that that's something that we could commit to the other issues that you asked for are i believe uh mostly in uh in train uh so the consistency of information is for the moment a problem you know uh some some people have for example previously wanted to avoid having their photographs on uh insights um well no i am the son where they are is important yeah well as long as they're accessible it doesn't matter geographically where they are sorry camp brian uh Milans that's what i'm alluding to the fact that they are accessible we have their contact details and you know we know we've had a supplementary so we share an answer to the supplementary so we share that the next question which is councillor Tom Beigert that's on the order picture and uh i think councillor William you're going to respond to this yes sir thank you all right it's good to hear that staff have been telling you about how their productivity has improved since they started trial in a four day week yes there is evidence that process changes such as having shorting meetings can improve efficiency of what really drives productivity is when these process changes are combined with people working less hours overhaul allowing them to focus their energies and stay mentally sharp whilst working at pace there is now considerable evidence that shows that people who are well rested are committed to the organisation they work for and have a good work life balance are significantly more productive than average calculating how much of the improvement in productivity we've seen is driven just by process changes such as having a shorter meetings and how much is due to combining them with a working four day week it's not straightforward however on the council's internet people are sharing ways that they have found to streamline processes or improve the way they work these improvements are being documented so no matter what our ultimate decision on a four day week these process improvements will not be lost councillor Beigert do you have a supplementary um i don't think my question was really was really answered i mean were you saying that um it's difficult to actually answer i did i did pick that up in the middle back you didn't really give an answer to the question you know what what method do you use to work out the difference between um the um fewer meetings and um the four day work work well i suppose the ultimate is is whether or not they they complete their tasks and and whether or not we see any improvement in the quality of their work they're the things that we measure by and at the end of the day we measure overall performance through the KPIs so you know i think um going drilling down into such detail as you suggest would be very time wasting you know we don't have the resources to do that and clearly we are seeing improvements in productivity and um and therefore you know the current methods are i believe satisfactory no did you have a yeah no i realized i put um uh councillor on the spot there but could i get a written answer to that because he didn't really seem to answer the question properly thank you now we have a number of other questions tabled uh i see councillor Mark Hull is no longer with us councillor um richard williams had to leave us councillor shrivorna butch fire councillor bunti waters um so i think we should take note of a couple of points from councillor john williams answer just there about the improved productivity of shorter meetings um and uh perhaps move on to the next item all of those who were unable to be here to ask their questions will get written answers we move on then to motions um and members are reminded of the maximum period of 30 minutes is allowed for each motion to be moved seconded and debated um the first motion is standing in the need name of councillor dan lentell now councillor lentell you made the point earlier that you didn't want to ask your question on this issue of the white ribbon following the announcement in order to save time of the council excuse me to propose your motion uh sorry chair i i did ask for the count for the question to be asked i just followed councillor Peter mcdonald's suggestion of questions uh on the paper and uh written answers do you wish to propose your motion do you wish to propose your motion yes the floor is yours oh i'm sorry are my allowed to reserve the time to to speak afterwards or greenhorn here yes you need if you have a seconder i do the seconder can reserve their time to speak at the end right but do you wish to speak to propose your motion or leave it to your seconder um i think we heard an absolutely splendid talk uh last time we were all together about why this motion uh and the the actions that have surrounded it uh from elizabeth mcwilliams uh i thought she gave us an absolutely splendid thing i've read the uh the the minutes of what she said um i i would like to uh leave it at that uh if that's all right and say that the uh the motions it stands is uh you know we the the the action is now happening it's a very good thing um and uh look this isn't my lived experience i'm happy to sum up at the end but i hope that people will understand why i don't feel it's appropriate for me to speak to the ins and outs of an issue which as a guy doesn't affect me in quite the same way yes before i invite you to um suggest the seconder for this you've just said to me that you're happy to leave it with what elizabeth mcwilliams said at our last meeting very in mind that since then a decision has been taken so do you wish to look forward a seconder for your motion i do my seconder is councillor Judith Griffith so councillor Judith Griffith do you wish to second this motion yes i do and do you wish to speak now or at the end um i wish to speak now right that's why it's yours and firstly i would like to thank councillor until for bringing this motion to council for providing the opportunity to debate such an important and highly relevant issue a domestic abuse related call is made to the police in england and wales every 30 seconds domestic abuse is also a crime which is largely hidden and often goes unreported to the police the chilling statistic of one or two women killed by a partner or ex-partner every week sends a shiver down at all our spines no relationship starts with violence and indeed some abusive relationships are not violent however a rise in misogynist language which goes unchecked and is indeed sometimes normalized is often the root of abusive relationships the seeds of this misogynist language are sewn in the playground at school in the workplace or on the night out the malign influences on social media influencers on young in reference to girls and women often pass off as just banter is having a growing impact on boys especially and is now a major concern throughout the education system white revenue k works and violence against women through education of men and boys supporting them to take responsibility for their own actions and thoughts and to call out harassment sexist and violent behaviour when they see it and in turn empowering women and girls to expect equality and respect i also believe that the work the council is now undertaking to achieve white ribbon accreditation complements and strengthens that of the daha accreditation awarded to this council in december 2022 domestic abuse is scourge on our society in 21st century britain i'm therefore happy to second this motion in the fight to end violence especially against women and girls and also sometimes men in the home and also outside the home i hope that my council colleagues of whichever political colour will join me in supporting this motion thank you thank you councillor druth rippith i'd like to move an amendment which democrat sorry demographic democratic services have been made aware of i believe there's my paper to circulate okay i'm advised that yes you can remove that amendment is that amendment accepted by the movers of the motion yes chair i wholeheartedly accept and indeed i'm planning to second the amendment i see well before we consider that amendment the pervy is circulating it and i'm going to pause the meeting for a couple of minutes so that members can actually read the amendment do we understand this to mean that the entire motion has been replaced i'm going to just comment on that so this is the first time i've seen this amendment and it is in effect a new motion it is replaces the previous motion so unusually although the seconder has already spoken i'm going to use chair's discretion to invite the seconder to speak briefly to her amendment and then the i need to just check with the mover of the motion that he accepts this amendment in place of his motion council then tell can you confirm that you accept this amendment yes chair i've seen this amendment so when council ripeth has spoken briefly to this amendment i.e. this replacement motion i'll then ask council then tell to speak to it and he will have three minutes to speak to it and we will then if councilers want have a short debate on this before we move to a vote which i'm hoping can be done by affirmation but that is for councillors to indicate so councillor Judith Ricketh you have put down an amendment which is effectively a new motion i'm asking you to take no more than one minute to propose your amendment propose this amendment and i do feel in what i've said i have covered a lot what is here and everybody in the chamber has had a couple of minutes to read this in detail it is just emphasising again so important that this is a society problem but we need to do what we can to help in the fight against domestic abuse and through the white ribbon specifically domestic violence and i'd just like to draw your attention to the resolutions especially the second one about writing to the secretary of state for education and also the secretary of state for digital culture medium and sport because it isn't just happening here it's happening across the country and i think the more we can work with all levels of governments on this issue to raise the profile of it so it doesn't go on hidden the better thank you now council then tell before i've said i'd like you to speak on this just remind you you said earlier on that you didn't particularly want to speak on this issue because you felt it was for others and that you had a question earlier on um in relation to the introduction of this by the council and you said you chose not to ask that so if you would keep your comments brief on this that would be appreciated the floor is yours thank you chair um i'm sorry i have to ask am i speaking to the amendment or to the motion it's to the substantive motion they are actually the same thing now the amendment has replaced the motion the amendment has replaced the motion the floor is yours council and i'm are we debating or am i summing up a debate this is you're introducing this you're effectively seconding what was previously your motion right you have three minutes council then tell um eight years ago uh i became a stay at home dad and it's the best and it's the toughest job i've ever had my previous regular playing in uh gig involved international travel an expense account and a lot less human uh unparliamentary word being a stay at home dad has taught me an awful lot about myself as a guy one of the things it's really taught me is that as as a guy i have been hardwired from a very young age to see problems in a certain way to the the best resolution is to bring about an external force to to solve the problem i hit it with a rock and actually when you're a parent or in any kind of nurturing job you can't simply impose external solutions you have to nurture the solution from within and the reason that i was so drawn to uh white ribbon accreditation is because it speaks to something that i have learnt over the last eight years and that is that change doesn't just happen change doesn't just happen because you want it to happen change doesn't just happen because it needs to happen change happens because we make it happen and the best way to make change happen is through education men need to change the world has changed and in some ways the world has not changed actually what needs to change is men and their relationships with women their relationship particularly uh with uh young women and with women in contexts which frankly our ancestors didn't have to deal with they you know i'm just as i'm the first member of my family to be the full-time carer for our kids since we all climbed down from the family tree there are people in all sorts of new situations and new gender roles and the only way that we're going to make sense of it the only way that we're going to be inclusive the only way that we are going to fundamentally improve our society is that good old-fashioned thing education education education and i'm so glad that we are doing this and i'm so grateful both to councillor ripeth and to Elizabeth McWilliams for their work in bringing it about and advocating for it obviously i cannot speak to other people's lived experience but from my own men have got a change we're only going to change with education i commend the uh motion to the council esti thank you thank you and just to clarify because you have accepted the amendment i the motion it is now effectively your motion so i will now open this for debate and at the end of that you will get an opportunity to reply to the debate before we move to a vote on that do i have anyone wanting to speak to this amended motion let's call it that councillor carne and then i briefly want to council leaving and then councillor coe councillor carne i i i want to briefly speak in in favour of of this motion and i'm very glad to see how it's been amended i think it's been much improved by the amendment in particular in drawing attention to all forms of domestic abuse i think about 90 percent of domestic abuse is men of women but there are 10 percent which is women of men and also in i there were perfect experiences that were happening within same sex relationships so these basic violence is wrong and abusive relationships are wrong i would also comment that it's interesting that i think a study was done of men who were a men's attitude to women and a men's general attitude or in terms of control and it was found that two thirds of men generally are peaceful don't tend to have but what am i call abusive attitudes towards women no matter third are and the problems always arise with this one third of men who have this attitude so it means that there are means of targeting and we have to somehow work out how to target and how to find the people that we need to address and trying to modify their behaviour um so um so i'm very much in favour of this and means which kind of i'm i'm keen that we look forward to means by which we can make progress in in achieving that in reducing all forms of abusive relationships here in all forms of domestic relations thank you councillor carne councillor breadman okay councillor breadman doesn't speak on this councillor neeming thank you chair and i'd like to speak in favour of this amended motion um so one of my duties is sort of a wider council duty is to sit on the domestic safety um the domestic safety partnership so that that role involves um the seeing statistics of cases in our area and the most serious part of that role is actually sitting through domestic homicide reviews um so i from personal experience and sadly from professional experience now over the last nearly two years um i i can see um it's it's our duty to to do all that we can in on this subject um to to strengthen our response to to this this crime which is often insidious um in our area and to increase education um in the wider community and i see this motion as complementing the work of our community teams the community safety partnership team and the work that's already undertaken by the housing team with the Daha accreditation um but all i can say is that anything which strengthens our our response to increase this education in this area is undoubtedly a good thing thank you thank you councillor heather williams i'm sorry councillor co yeah um thank you chair um i was just gonna um say that i wholeheartedly agree with what is um presented in front of us both with the original motion and the very extensive sort of amendments that that we have which almost rewrite but there's nothing in either that i disagree with or um you know wouldn't support as a councillor or or as a human really um but um i think really the the principle for me when you look in at the white ribbon campaign and go through their documentation it's pretty clear from what's on their website and uh their documentation as to what they're getting at you know this motion really could have been does that we support the the the white ribbon campaign and there's lots of stuff around it both in the new uh amendment that we've got and in the original which i also support and agree with but it it's all part of of that really what what is within there um that their charity has been set up to deal with as we heard last uh meeting from Elizabeth councillor audience thank you chair um when it comes to the white ribbon campaign and the the content that we've been asked to look at in the context fully supported um i am going to raise my procedural concern and i stress now this is not a political one with the procedural concern when we bring motions such as this to full council there are often numerous reasons why sometimes personal sometimes professional sometimes in relation to our residents and when we craft our motions we do so in the hope that you know there might be amendments there might be things i've had it in the past and and there's been numerous times when actually you negotiate wording and i'm happy this is a complete rewrite and while i still support it you know this is not a question of my support at all for the principles here i think it's absolutely wrong that on an issue like this there has been a complete there was so many ways to yes improve yes merge and i worry for the precedent that it sets for the ruling group to just be able to completely rewrite you have the political arithmetic i accept that but surely the sentiment of the motion which we all agree with could have been found a different way than completely rewriting and i am i am very concerned that that become a dangerous precedent when it comes to the white ribbon campaign itself as council co was said i'll support it um and happy to i do think though i don't think that we would benefit from multiple amendments but the request in the leader i think it should have been the chief executive which would have been more of a non-political function if the chief executive to write all the chairman on behalf of all of us um as opposed to the political leadership so i do feel that there are changes that could have been made um it's a really important issue it's something that goes unnoticed day in day out and it's something that scaringly we as women are taught to accept to a big degree just banter or they didn't mean it there's no harm in it they didn't actually do anything all of these things accumulate and it's incredibly important that it's not a man a man versus women approach it has to be that everybody male female those you know that don't um assign a specific gender it's everybody to call it out when they see it but call it out and not confront to king particularly in politics we want to confront things we want to tackle it head on we want to go for it actually that's not always the way and we and it's a very fine line that we will have to walk all of us most people i'm assuming i know i have myself had casework but we're having to rehouse people in domestic abuse or child cruelty situations um it's not easy i referenced earlier about the tough job that we do and and i will support this please think about the precedents you set when rewriting something like this because this debate could have gone a very different way it could have been perceived as politicalisation of such an important issue that needs to be non-party and that may not be the intention of the action but as i sit here now that is how it appears and if it is that's dangerous thank you chair i really am happy to see this put forward here on this platform in my all my entire professional life in various different aspects from um newborn babies etc to whatever i've had a lot of experience and insight into domestic violence yes it includes education but it is multifactorial and it's not easy for the untrained person to understand now personally um i would be very happy to support this because i think the council can really help by providing resources they're not enough safe houses maybe um in other ways financial and otherwise so whether whether this motion should have been rewritten or not is is not something that i can say but i am just very glad that somebody has taken this on board and um that will and we and i hope we will be proactive in supporting what we can do as a council for this subject thank you council hands rosh thank you very much very helpful i think we now come to i don't see any other contributors to the debate so i come back to council then tell to summer thank you chair and thank you members for your comments and insights um i don't again i'm i'm not going to speak to other people's lived experience i will just briefly answer councillor heather william's concern about politicization um i've had a very strong assurance um that the letter that will be sent on the council's behalf by the leader uh will be uh strictly within the spirit of this debate and strictly within the spirit of the uh non-partisan um accreditation that we are seeking um i appreciate we've got a lot of other business to get through but again um i'm really glad i am really glad this is happening this is the right thing um and i'm very glad that the decision was taken to simply do it um and uh i'm glad we've had this debate and i hope that the uh the vote that we're about to have uh seals the deal thank you thank you members uh yes i am going to move to a vote um can we do this by affirmation agree so this motion as amended is approved by affirmation i'm going to take the opportunity to remind council of the background to this this council had already agreed to pursue white ribbon accreditation i would say to councillor heather williams i agree with some of her concerns on the procedural matters i had not seen this what i was told was going to be an amendment until it was placed before me i don't believe members of the Lib Dem party had but i'm not sure about that i have no knowledge of it and it is clearly not the right way to proceed in order to get an outcome that we all support that could have been done without this concern but the point is that we have just voted for this amendment and we are all in support of it and let's try to focus on that rather than the procedure which went behind it i assure the leader of the opposition that i work very carefully with the procedure in the case of future amendments to make sure that this is not done in this way thank you i'm not posing to take comments on that i want to move on to next business if i may right okay let's take a we'll be back here at 25 past seven members welcome back to this meeting of the south cambridgeer district council on the 27th of febru we are now live we are still quarat and we have we move on to item 20b a motion standing in the name of councillor heather williams the motion is before you councillor heather williams thank you chair i i hope members will be pleased that my motion is very short um and gets to the point um i am known for sort of one liners because i i do think it is um you need to be clear what we're asking um period poverty is something that very often doesn't get spoken about um but actually does affect and i think actually oddly on the back of the motion we just had it it's kind of fitting that does feel a sort of a female related agenda right now however it is important because there are lots of complications and also is a complete lack of confidence and people can feel quite ashamed when they go through something like that it can lead to a lot of embarrassment it can lead to health problems and it's something that could very easy go unforgotten that there is fantastic support out there that are people that are doing things um and and it's great to see that and i thank members you know hopefully i'm assuming of everything this evening this isn't the most controversial thing in the world um but just for those that um don't realise you you've got vending machines even in this council and the cost of a single sanitary tower or tampon is astronomical um a you need to have the coins which in this day and age there's no given we're so used to contact this um but it can be extremely expensive you never know for some especially younger people when it's going to happen there isn't that chance to be prepared and and it's very difficult and there's lots of things that go along with that period poverty is not just about the sanitary provision there is also the pain relief some people are very fortunate they never have a single cramp or pain through the process um some are not so lucky and i have sympathy with those it's something that is seen as something we shouldn't discuss we shouldn't just you know it's seen as you see people get awkward actually it's a completely natural thing that happens you know we can't help it we can't stop it nor should we at the end of the day we are all here through that process because it's an important part of of you know how we have children um and the concern is very much that it could so easy be under looked but it would make such a difference to people's to people's lives um so i'm hoping that while we can't become a pharmacy but there are things like heat packs um as well as sanitary tower provisions things that would help support people through um a very difficult time i appreciate the details of how it's done and advertised could be different but this would be a step today to at least send a signal that um that we recognise it we hear it and that we'll try to try to do what we can thank you new council over Williams do you have a second of your motion happy to second the motion thank you um does anyone wish to speak on this motion council of brown mills i'm sorry through you chair i thank council Williams for this agree um we um i mean the council is already providing some sanitary products you probably know that council Williams probably knows that um for the people who are struggling with the cost of living crisis um and i think we the council also provides short term payments to those people who um which you know prefer that disposable sanitary products but you know this is a well documented national issue um and we you know fully support the motion um i would have seconded it if i had the chance as well um there are things that we there are things that the council do there's mobile food hubs south council itself lots of different ways that we could um we can help here the council can help here so i hope that kind of does any other member of council want to speak to this motion council of brown mills very briefly chair um i'm not afraid to use the term menstruation and um i don't think we should be but we are um and that's a cultural issue perhaps but i was very impressed when i went to meadows community centre uh because they've got unisex toilets there and they've got products available uh they've got incontinence pads they've got sanitary towels they've got tampons the whole whole lot uh dispensing drugs is more problematic okay thank you um but absolutely nothing to disagree with here i think you know very simple and relatively inexpensive interventions like this got to be applauded so thank you for bringing it to the council council richard stonard thank you chair and just briefly um period poverty um you know has has a strong impact on younger women particularly in the educational setting and um you know it can i've seen accounts of um young women missing out on education simply because they can't get access to sanitary products so um i think any anything that we propose if it was you know oriented towards you know that that group of younger women um that would that would be great so i think the um you know the motion is is excellent but it could have this extra dimension uh and perhaps with the involvement of schools so i'm speaking for the position of almost total ignorance but if if our view of this was to include school provision and a degree of discretion as well then uh it would be so much richer so that's my view chair thank you for the opportunity thank you councillor leming i'm very happy to support this motion and i think it's ensuring people live with dignity and i'm very happy to support it thank you thank you councillor riffus i think yeah i'm happy to support this motion um it was just also to say like well i work in a um state secondary school and um free sanitary products are provided across the state sector and obviously it's kept in the room so um they can be easily accessed but this is the kind of thing we should be doing in any um council building anything that well we have an influence and um yeah so it's not a sort of a shame or anything to have to ask or have to go and um get um not be able to afford products i thought i'd just point that out thank you i don't see any other speaker councillor cohen did you want to the second did you want to apply for debate did you want to uh i'll need just to um you know agree with what's already been said really it's actually especially what councillor judiff ripeth has said because i think um it this motion will bring us very much into line with other uh public sector organisations it will also bring us into line with private and charitable sector organisations which are having these discussions and um you know bringing these policies forward as we speak as well so i think agreed councillor how the williams did you want to sum up thank you chair and i appreciate all the positive comments that have um been made and the fact that um yes that menstruation is not it can be said um i brought something very similar on breastfeeding when i first got elected um and i know that was something that again nobody disagreed with but just haven't thought about it because they weren't in that point in their lives and and uh i think this i feel very similarly to to this i hear what you say in relation to youth and there is there is issues around that particularly challenging um at the start because things can be very unpredictable as i said it's hard to prepare and i wasn't suggesting prescriptions chair i was sort of heat pads and the like um but but i wouldn't want it to be exclusively because actually what we see is postpartum and a lot of issues come into play and also a lot of issues when women hit menopause um in that you know it increases um and can be longer times and that can become quite challenging because the expense is then for a longer period and sort of more unsustainable it's i think it's something that um i really appreciate that everybody has has supported and i hope to see see it in the council soon right um now we move to a vote i feel that we can do this without any doubt by affirmation is that correct can we agree with your ideas we then come to the next motion standing in the name of councillor Anna Bradlin uh councillor Bradlin would you like to move your motion please thank you very much chair um i wanted to uh move this motion because uh it's something that's very close to my heart i uh some of you will know i'm also a county councillor and i chair the corporate parenting subcommittee at the county council and in that role we as county councillors are reminded regularly that we are corporate parents to our children in care and i checked the data for this morning is that we have 652 children in our care within the county of Cambridge chair obviously fewer within the district but this is important these are children who have been brought into our arms as corporate parents because they have suffered abuse or trauma or huge anxiety um at the hands of their own parents their birth parents or for some other reason and so these um i'm privileged to meet these a sample of these young people who are representatives from the children in care council who come and speak to us at informal corporate parenting subcommittee and sometimes some of them are shy some of them are confident some of them are exceedingly resilient given what they've gone through but all of them have a residual vulnerability and i would remind members that's even when they've been adopted um they they then come out of county council care and they are then looked after by adopted parents so all of these children need our care when they are children and young people but of course then they move on as young adults and what this motion attempts to do is to treat that care experience as a protected characteristic so that we as councillors have are mindful of their needs when we're setting policy and where possible that we listen to their needs when we're setting policy so this motion has been agreed was agreed by and passed by county council i'm very pleased to say in may 2023 when i seconded the motion and so i'd like to bring it to us here because we had um the most eloquent young woman speaking to us who had been a care experienced young person she was very capable but she pointed out things like the abuse that she had experienced as a younger child caused her difficulty in maintaining friendships it caused her difficulty even with writing essays ultimately she had um she was start she had commenced a university course and was doing really well she'd never had the experience of writing an essay before because she hadn't had that parenting for herself um so often these children or young people moving on in care they feel alone they don't have the same network connections that we have sometimes enjoyed as children of adults parents with connections um and so this group is really vulnerable and need our support to proceed with their education with starting to find work with seeking benefit payments all of these things that and of course seeking housing and in fact those of you who are members of scrutiny and overview will know that i asked our housing officers to consider allocating homes or bearing in mind at least care experienced children in their allocation in our allocation of homes um so these these young people continue despite their resilience and their their um extraordinary courage in proceeding with their life um we need to take them into account and so that is why i'm suggesting that i'm asking we should take into account care experienced as a protected characteristics so that we bear it in mind and in every report that we write that we bear it in mind uh when we when we're setting policy thank you chair thank you councillor bread do you have a second of your motion yes councillor pepper halings will second it did you want to speak for an hour later um if there are any others want to speak first please they do and i'll speak at the end does anyone want to speak to this motion councillor i don't know which was first so forgive me councillor Heather Williams thank you very much sir sorry i took for the first spot this time councillor um completely support what councillor and a breadman has said in the motion um i recognise that i've been very fortunate and very privileged in my life and my upbringing um but others don't have the same and and i have seen the impact that things like even people that have been adopted to very nice affluent families struggle with and that struggle of identity i'm a firm believer and it's something that we all sit here and we all have values right and when we decide and we sit what we what we want to do and values that we try to rule our life by and for some people that's political religion whatever it may be um but a strong belief that i hold is that it's important that regardless of how somebody starts in life and their circumstances that they have the ability to become the best that they can be and i think that is that is also how we get change positive change um is to really make sure and those early years we know how important actually not to five by the time someone's seven quite often their characters for their life are set and i know county council the way they they plan as well and forecast what the needs are going to be from people from such a young age and as a as a parent it's scary actually the responsibility that you feel for that and and i'm sure all parents second guess themselves themselves um because we want to do the best for our children and and for those that are growing up in care that's incredibly different not to have that that family support um and or also potentially had bad experiences and there are lots of reasons why a child will be put into care it's not always because of abuse it can be bereavement you know it can just be people are put up for adoption because they're loved but people can't cope and all those mental health issues in the family there are so many different things that it's so hard to know what is the right thing to do um and so anything that we can do to just keep that value of ensuring that we're doing what we can to ensure regardless of the luck that we have as to how and where we are born that we are not prohibited on what are you we are able to be supported to be the best we can be to thoroughly support that chair thank you uh now next i think we have councillor Graham Cohn and then council items um i'll just briefly so i think it's an absolutely excellent motion because what it does is it seeks to protect some of the most vulnerable children in our wards um and it very clearly indicates how we as councillors and as a council would seek about going about that and i think it's very very good yeah it's an excellent motion i'll be supporting it councillor Eileen Wilson thank you um i started out my civil service career in the early years as a social security benefits officer and so i fully support this motion because quite often the people i was visiting who had just moved into a new home were care leavers and they they really did struggle it was a struggle for everything claiming benefits getting the home together and no family support and sporadic support from once they'd left care um there wasn't always a lot of support in those days so yeah i really support this motion i see no other speakers councillor Pippa Haley did you want to speak as a seconder of the motion thank you and it's really good to hear the support for this motion in the room um across all old parties and i think as many people i think and i'll include officers in this as well councillors on officers we've got personal experience of how important the protected characteristic nature of this motion is and how life changing that can be and i just want to share one story and that's about jazz jasmine she's the eldest of three children um and she and her two siblings were brought into foster care the day before school term started they hadn't eaten for three days they had no school uniform no school materials no school bags anything the youngest was five they were immediately put into a foster family um unprepared for for school jazz was eight years at that time eight years old ten years later part of a loving relationship with the foster family she got through a secondary school and her a levels and um entered university during her first year as she herself had expected her mother was found dead as she entered her second year as most students moving out into independent accommodation with friends she was required to declare that she came from a care situation that she'd been in care she was refused rental accommodation even when the foster father offered to pay 12 months in advance when pushed the rental provider said that they just couldn't risk it having faced as councillor Bradman has said that resilience and all the barriers up until then to then face this next barrier where technically she was homeless as all her friends moved into that house and she didn't and that's where it brings it back to this council because it's by being a protected characteristic that this puts the burden and the requirement on public bodies to give priority consideration and in our council that would be priority consideration for social housing for example for children in that care jazz is not from south cambridge a district council and full disclosure it's my brother who is the foster father and he and his wife jazz now sits on the panel for foster parent selection on that committee so again it's the voice of those who are care leavers who should also be brought into consideration to talk to their own experience and it's the author of the report which is the independent review of social care which is the basis for all of the recommendations coming out of the county council and others who congratulated the government on taking action particularly the department for education on some of the recommendations however he was shocked that the government said it would not adopt legislation for the protected characteristic and that is what has led to councils across the country taking it upon themselves to enact the possibility to make this a protective characteristic within their own domain and I would just hope that we can all adopt this and vote for it but also that we do think that there's still a battle to be fought at the national level around this thanks councillor braddon did you have anything to add to that as proposer of emotion thank you chair but thank you very much for the support across the council chamber for this I just wanted to point out also that of course that young people themselves often want to be invisible they want to be treated exactly like any other child they don't necessarily want the fact that their care experience to be noted um so it's up to us you remember that that principle that we have to extend our service so that the we give them we enable them to take the same opportunities as any other child or young person and so that means us going the extra step to make sure they have the step up so that they can take the opportunities that we can give them so um you know we we are corporate parents at the county council but we have a duty as public officers to um to be mindful of their needs and to improve our understanding and you know one of the things to bear in mind is with the best will in the world sometimes foster placements our children want us to call them homes of course not placements there's a little diversion on that county council used to refer to this as placement when they're placed with a foster carer and the first thing they said was can you change that can you call it something different we don't want to feel like pieces on a game board and so we said what would you like us to call it and they said could you call it homes please so we've changed all our paperwork at county to refer to homes when we're dealing with them people so it's our duty to change the way we behave towards people who have extra vulnerabilities to give them the same opportunities as the more fortunate children who have not been in care so thank you very much indeed everyone for um your support thank you we now move to the vote i'm going to suggest we can do this one by affirmation thank you thank you to all who took part in that debate um that brings us to item 21 chairs engagements they're on the papers in front of you i'm not going to go through them i would nearly add that i was privileged on the 26th of january in addition to attend the citizenship awards at the county hall as the guest of council sabastian kindersley's chair of the county council i was very impressed i think 28 people took up citizenship that day about 600 do so in this county and i was impressed that they undertake an exam which i certainly would not have fast so with that i merely remind you that the next council meeting will be the annual meeting held on 23rd of may again at 2 p.m and with that i declare this meeting closed at 1955 thank you all very much thanks chair