All right. Welcome, everybody. Hi, my name is Kate Thalman. I'm the chair of the Help I'm an Accidental Government Information Library and Webinar Series. I'm from the University of Colorado Boulder. This series is brought to you by the American Library Association's Government Documents Roundtable, or Godort. And thanks for coming. You will all be muted during this webinar, but we encourage you to participate in the chat. If you don't see a chat window, you can always click on the chat icon at the bottom of your screen. If there are any technical issues that you run into, you can reach out to Kelly Wilson, who's our Zoom tech, and you can feel free to chat with her and get advice on what's going on. Worst case scenario, please remember that this session is being recorded. All right. So, real quick, some housekeeping. Our next webinar is October 18th. This is on reporting on the world of government information. It's a panel presentation from the editors of IFLA's Professional Report Government Information Landscaping Libraries. If you have any topic ideas, please let me know. My email is, I'll put it in the chat once I'm done talking. It's Catherine.W.Talman at Colorado.edu. And if you're a member of an ALA Godort committee and would like to co-host an event like this one, please also reach out. And there will be a short survey at the end of this where you can share your thoughts on today's webinar and offer any future ideas for improvement or topics. You can also see all of our webinars on our YouTube channel. I will also post that link momentarily. So please subscribe. So as these get done and uploaded, you will get to see them again. So today's webinar, I'm really excited about it is Secrecy 101 Classification and Executive Order 13-526. It's co-sponsored by our colleagues and Godort's Education Committee. So I'm going to hand it off to them. In particular, I'm going to hand it off to Aaron Wilson. For those of you who don't know Aaron, he's a government documents coordinator at the University of Maryland Libraries. And I will pass it along to you, Aaron. Thank you very much. Thank you, Kate, for that introduction. And thank you also to the help webinar series committee for their assistance in sponsoring this event as well as to the members of the Godort Education Committee for their continued support of making these events possible. We are pleased to have with us, John Powers, who will be our presenter today. John Powers is a 30-year public servant who has just recently joined the Office of the Historian and the Department of State to lead the Office of Historians, the Classification Coordination, Publication and Digital Initiatives Program. Before joining OH, he served as the Associate Director for Classification Management in the Information Security Oversight Office at the National Archives and Records Administration, NARA. He led a team of analysts and advising government agencies on policies for declassifying and safeguarding national security information. He managed work of the Interagency Security Classification Appeals Panel, the government's highest appellate body for resolving classification and declassifications, determinations, and served as the senior staff officer for the Public Interest Declassification Board, which is an independent board tasked with making recommendations to improve the security classification system. Under his leadership, the board will publish five reports to the President, including the most recently a vision of the digital age, modernization of the U.S. National Security Classification and Declassification System, and a report to Congress on the feasibility of declassifying records related to U.S. nuclear weapons testing and cleanup activities in the Marshall Islands. John previously served two tours as the Director of Access and Information Management on the National Security Council staff at the White House from 2015 to 2018 and from 2022 to 2023. He led a team responsible for viewing and declassifying White House and NSC records for public access, including records for the Department of State's foreign relations of the United States series. He conceived of and led the U.S. Declassification Project of Argentina that involves 16 other departments and agencies. John also co-led an interagency process that resulted in the declassification of historical presidents daily briefs from the Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, and Ford administrations. This past year, John led or co-led the interagency process for modernizing executive orders on controlled unclassified information, classified national security information, and special access programs. John began his career at NARA in 1991 as an archivist aide at the Nixon Presidential Materials Project, eventually serving as acting director in 2007. He reviewed President Richard Nixon's secret tapes and his administration's NSC papers for public access. He spent two years at the Lyndon B. Johnson Presidential Library, the classified LDJ's secret recordings. John, it has a Bachelor of Arts in International Relations from the College of William & Mary and a Master of Arts in American History from George Mason University. John, we're very glad to have you as a part of this series and at this time, if you're with us. Okay, can you guys all hear me? Everybody can hear me? Fabulous. Okay, so thanks for the introduction. I appreciate that and thanks for the opportunity to be here on this very esoteric topic. I'm obviously a fan of the American Library Association and specifically the Government Documents Roundtable. I've spoken to you all before, although it's been a long time previously on what to do when you come across classified documents in your collections from my previous job at the Information Security Oversight Office. So happy to be here and talking about this. This is the second topic. We're doing this late. I'm going to share my screen now. Let's see if I can do it correctly. And we will start this presentation here. All right. So this is a very esoteric topic and we're putting the car before the horse here a little bit because back earlier in June you heard from my friend and colleague. David Mengel on the declassification process and I am going to start backwards here and talk a little bit about like, what in the heck happens? How do you actually decide to classify information in the first place? So let's have a hopefully a good conversation and I always start these presentations off with a disclaimer since I am still a current government employee that the views expressed here today do not necessarily reflect the views of the White House, the National Security Council, the National Archives, ISU where I used to work or my current position here at the Department of State. So I'll state that up front. So Kate mentioned that here we're here to talk about executive order 13526 classified national security information. Well, what does that actually mean? In this organization probably more than any understands the difference between a record in a document and information and data. And very specifically, believe it or not here records are not classified documents are not classified, but it's information and data within those that can be classified and I emphasize that word can be for a reason and we'll talk a little bit about that. The records documents or other media they are actually marked with the classification marking that alerts the reader the user that information in there is sensitive. So that's kind of how that breaks out a little bit. Now, when it was first signed back in 2009 it was considered kind of a groundbreaking order you know it was the and there were two others that were considered kind of groundbreaking. President Nixon's was the first to talk about declassification allowing citizens to request the declassification of information President Clinton when he signed his was the first to introduce this topic of automatic declassification after a set period of years. In President Obama's order really took that a step further or several steps further. And it will talk a little bit about some of those steps as part of my presentation. All of the orders that relate to classified information going all the way back to President Truman are divided into different sections. David talked about section three. I am primarily going to talk about section one and section two on the on my slides today. So first of all there's a weird things that as I said this was a very esoteric topic and they're, they're fewer fewer than 100 of us in government that really focus on this topic it's that kind of esoteric and really care about this. But what I'll tell you is that there are two types of classification. There's original classification, which is the initial decision that specific information in the interest of national security should be protected against unauthorized disclosure. And that's the initial decision and then the derivative classification decision is when we the information itself is already classified and somebody else is using that information and using it perhaps differently or as part of a different project. And they are going to derivatively then classify that information and I'll go into a little bit about how that works and in how it's done in a little bit. But you should know that they're essentially there are two types of classifications there's original and derivative which means that they're two types of classic people that can classify their original classification authorities and then there are derivative classification authorities and the derivative classification authorities is pretty much everybody who has a security clearance in the government and uses it. While the original classification authority are those individuals authorized in writing by the president or the vice president or select individuals within several different agencies, it's a fairly small number. What's interesting in a little bit different here is that original classification authorities have discretion and we're going to talk about that discretion in a little bit. Derivative classifiers do not have discretion they are supposed to follow the instructions and the guidelines and the rules established by the original classification authority. President Obama when he signed EO 13526 in December of 2009 he also issued a separate memo designating certain top officials as original classification authorities OCA's 16 agency heads were listed by the president in that memorandum. And those tend to be the agencies you think of those are the departments that focus on national security as their main mission, and they can classify up to top secret, or those agencies that have as some type of involvement or national security. They have authority up to the secret level. And there's six of those departments total of 16 different departments. What I'll what you'll notice here is what I said here or what you see on the screen. You have top secret you have secret there are no confidential original classification authorities. The president also recognize that. Well, he's nominating, and he's enabling 16 agency heads to originally classify information, but they have day jobs they have important jobs to run their agencies lead policies. So the executive order did give these agency heads, the authority to to delegate their authority downward to other senior leaders in the agencies. And as I talked about here that the difference here for to classifiers derivative to classifiers is that's everybody else. And then as I said we we derivative classifiers have to follow the rules that are set by the OCA's. So 16 agencies have this authority. They're not many believe it or not this is the the lowest number ever, if you can believe that they're a total of 1638 original classification authorities across government in the executive branch across these 16 agencies. Most are at the secret level, and they are most of those come from my agency the Department of State where every ambassador has original classification authority. And then the very small number at the bottom there actually are three confidential OCA's in the Department of Defense, who are allowed to classify up to the confidential level. But that's it. My former boss at the director of ISO and the Environmental Protection Agency Administration administrator, both have original classification authority. But unlike the other national security agencies, they are not allowed to delegate it. It's theirs to use. And that's it. Now I talked a little bit earlier about kind of the the groundbreaking nature of President Obama's order back in 2009. And that really has to get into and he really did try to focus on efforts to limit over classification and efforts to limit the delay of declassification of information. And so within this section one, which focuses on original classification, he set out a lot of different concepts and rules that even the original classification authorities must follow when making decisions on whether to classify or not to classify information. The most important one of those is that he put in words and language in the order that said, hey, if you have significant doubt about whether you need to classify this, you shouldn't classify it or classify it at a lower level. He also wanted to make sure that the information that derivative classifiers were receiving and derivative classifiers usually get their guidance in the form of a declassification guide. And he required that these guides be reviewed every five years that they'd be reevaluated for every bit of it to determine whether the information in there still needs to be classified and still needs to be classified at that level and still needs to be classified for that length of time. And he required specifically that this be a whole of agency approach and a whole of agency effort as part of these five year reviews that they involve original classifiers, derivative classifiers, subject matter experts who use the guides, declassifiers, and surely there may have even been some freedom of information act requests that have had some effect on this so he wanted to have some input from the staff who do those that do that type of work, and he also wanted historians to weigh in. Information is a rapidly changing area where information can become stale fairly quickly. So this five year requirement was fairly new, and this was put in there after during the interagency process my former agency at the information security oversight office learned that many of the agencies were using classification guides that were sometimes 30 or 40 years old, and the information was long obsolete, but they had never been changed. So this is one effort to really hold agencies accountable and to maintain current guidance for all of us who classify information derivative late. The second thing is that he did put some limits for original classifiers that he put some time limits they can classify up to 25 years and that's it. He made sure that information would not be classified forever indefinitely, and he put some very tight limits on what information could be reclassified. And these are really designed and important here to ensure that information that's once been it's made available to the public before it is taken off of the public shelf. There is a serious effort made to ensure that the information really truly is sensitive and to make that effort. And I also like would like to kind of say here that you know the, and I will tell you that this presentation kind of builds off of training that I give every year to original classification authorities because they are required to take training every year on the use of their authority and specifically to include information about avoiding over classification. And the government typically has always had a response that well we're fairly risk averse and we're going to classify things just to be safe. And so to original classification authorities, I always stress that over classification harms our national security to it is not just an issue of transparency. In trying to enhance our democratic tradition and democratic access to information for citizens and participation in government, but over classification, especially today and tomorrow. And into the future over classification harms our national security, because it limits or prevents information sharing. It harms decision making, and it makes us less safe if people do not have the information that they need to act on it quickly. So, to kind of continue along those kinds of line within that first section that OCA is have to follow. There are many different efforts and many and much different there are lots of language in here specifically on the importance of trying to avoid over classification including significant doubt that the number of original classification authority delegations must be very limited and it's a user lose. If you don't use it you lose it and agency heads are expected to police this work to ensure that their people that they have delegated their authority to are using it and using it appropriately by taking the training every year and reviewing the classification guides that they oversee every five years. And that that fundamental classification guidance review that takes place every five years is very, very important for those reasons. So, what is the front of there's four different criteria that original classification authorities have to use when making this decision to classify information or not. And the first thing I want to say is I've copied some language here right out of the order, but I want to emphasize that word may, and that is information may be originally classified, because the original classification authority has that discretion. And in that discretion, no matter what if she or he decides that the information should be classified. There's four basic criteria that the information has to fall within and that is specifically the OCA has to make the decision the information has to be owned by or produced by or is for the United States it has to fall within one of the categories of information that's eligible to be classified and I'll show you that in a minute. And then he has to be he or she has to be able to her information is leaked or let to the public or is subject to an unauthorized disclosure you have to be able to describe the damage that occurs. So I think David talked about this back in June that there are three levels of classification under President Truman's order there were four. And so for those original classification authorities when they decide to classify something as top secret they have to be able to describe in detail. The exceptionally grave damage that would occur if there is an unauthorized disclosure, same as true a secret, they have to be able to describe the grave damage to national security and for confidential the damage to national security. So there are eight general categories and going back to the slide from from two ago. The information has to fit within one of these eight general areas and these all kind of make sense. You know military weapons and systems. Not all foreign government information now this order does describe and define foreign government information is information given to our government with the expectation that we are going to keep it in confidence. And that includes not just the information but sometimes also the source. So the country or the international organization so it's a little bit further defined later in the executive order but as a rule, foreign government information can be classified. Certainly it makes sense to include intelligence activities. Same is true with foreign relations. Of course, when we talk about scientific technological or economic matters relating to the national security for as far as the technologies those can be hardware, think Stealth Bomber for for a period of time, or it can be software. So it doesn't just have to be it can be a physical thing to makes perfect sense that we want to protect our nuclear facilities and we want to protect our systems. And things like that too. Okay. Now I talked earlier and said that pretty much original classifications have the ability to classify information for up to 25 years. And after 25 years, their authority ends. They do not have the ability to continue classification beyond that period with two small exceptions. And those are for the names of a human intelligence source or the key design concept of a weapon of mass destruction and those are exempted from declassification for 50 years. Now, what I'll say is that not all information is automatically declassified at 25 years and David spoke I think about this a little bit back in June. And that is that agencies do have the ability to exempt specific information from automatic declassification at 25 years but that requires the approval of this interagency body called the interagency security classification appeals panel. This is very important because now the decision on whether you can continue the classification beyond 25 years is not up to the agency head or to that delegated agency official it is up to an interagency group of officials. High-level officials from the Department of State, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Office of Secretary of Defense, the Department of Justice in the National Archives and the National Security Council combined this group are the ones that make those decisions on if an agency is allowed and permitted to continue classification beyond 25 years. So, of course, importantly, there are things that no matter what an original classification authority is not allowed to classify. And that is you cannot classify information for reasons other than national security that is national security is the only reason that you may classify information. You cannot use the classification system to conceal a violation of law to prevent embarrassment to restrain competition or delay the release of information that otherwise should be released. And there are within the executive order sanctions for officials that do that, including losing your clearance, losing your original classification authority. So there are sanctions available if that happens. Now I'm going to move on and talk a little bit about the rest of us. So not those 1638 people but the other people who do most of the classification work in the government. And that's the derivative classifiers. Now we have to follow the rules. Our job is to do what the original classification authority told us to do. We are expected to kind of follow those instructions. And there are many reasons to do that, right? First of all is consistency. We are want to make sure that everybody across an agency who is looking at the same information is classifying that information the same way for the same length of time and at the same level. Consistency is very important. Otherwise you put information at risk. And it requires once you've made that decision that you're going to this information must be classified that I'm going to follow the original classification authorities decision. You are required on whatever record you are working to put down. You have to put down your identity. You have to put down the, the reason that you were classifying the information and why that's the classification guide. And you have to talk about how it is that when this information is automatically declassified, which can be no more than 25 years with the exception the small limited exceptions of those key design concepts of weapons of mass destruction or the names of confidential human intelligence sources. Typically, original classification authorities, when they make a decision, they make it in the form of a declassification, they make it in the form of a classification guide. See, I'm in the declassification world mostly. But they make it in the form of a classification guide. And those have to also kind of follow these same rules, but the expectation is, even if you were going to be classifying information when you create that guide for 25 years. After five years, you are required to reevaluate that information to see if it still meets the requirements for classification or not. The idea here again is that you're going to be deleting information that does not need to be classified. But it really is very important for those of us that do the derivative classification that we follow these rules exactly. So we follow these rules and we're going to be putting we put our instructions on here we put our names on here we portion mark records, but often derivative classifiers use many different sources. So if I'm an intelligence analyst at a at the office of the director of national intelligence, I may be receiving information from several different agencies on a topic. And when I combine all of those and I'm writing an analytical piece on it. I may be using information from the national security agency, the central intelligence agency, the into the National Reconnaissance Office and the Department of State. And if I use information from all of those agencies, I have to cite every single classification guide that I used in writing the text of that document or that record. And that's very important for accountability sake, but it's also very important to help us identify if there is a request for that information to declassify it, or even to classify it at a lower level. Who do we need to go back to to to see if that information can be declassified or classified at a lower level. This is a way to help bring some of that accountability in and also make it easier to do that process. Now the next couple of slides all come directly from training that I used to give to original classification authorities, original classification authorities must sit through a presentation and do training every year. It has to focus on the danger in the worry of over classification. And so this is one of these slides that I really do try to focus them on here and to really let them know that they are expected to be keeping their decisions to a minimum. They are expected to keep information secret only as long as necessary. And they're expected to only classify information for a legitimate reason to protect our national security. And I talked a little bit earlier about like the importance of transparency in our government, and it really is and it's an underlying principle of our government to have citizen access to the information they need to hold our government officials accountable. And to learn our history. And at the same time, that compact also says on behalf of our citizens, our public servants in our highest level public servants are only going to keep information from the public that protects our national security. And of course, for the, for the OCA is that I give this training to I also really stress the importance of why you want to reduce and really think hard about whether you need to classify information, or classify it at a lower level is because we really do in today's digital age need to rapidly share information with people who need to see it to make good informed decisions. And I'll talk about that on this next slide here. So we are no longer in an era of paper and in vaults and which are called skiff secure compartmented information facilities. We have war fighters on battlefields diplomats on foreign posts. We need to rapidly move information to people who need to see it quickly. So the ability to share information vertically and horizontally with these people means we need to classify information properly, or at a lower level, or at not at all to ensure that we can get the information to where it needs to go, so that we can maintain our decision advantage over classification diminishes informed decision making people will make bad decisions that they don't have the full picture. It's as simple as that. There's been a lot in the news lately, it's the last year and a half or so, especially from my former colleagues at the public interest classification board, who talk about the effect of classification hindering innovation and reducing competition and the increasing the in the really challenge of lengthy acquisition times which adds to the cost to us the taxpayers. And it also reduces the decision advance we have on a technology if it's taking us 10 years to get a technology from concept to active on on our national secure toolbox. That's time lost. So the less classification and proper classification really does help that. The other thing of course is like the American taxpayer, it costs a lot of money to keep things secret. Back in 2017, which was the last year that my old office the information security Oversize Office, kind of publicly kind of reported on its costs, the costs were 18 and a half billion dollars, that's a lot of money. And then the final thing I'll say here too and that is, if everything is classified nothing is classified, and you really do risk reducing the respect of the classification system if you are classifying something top secret that should only be classified secret, or shouldn't be classified at all. You put that information at risk overall when people don't respect the classification system. This is my third slide that I showed your original classification authorities. But what I want to what I wanted to show here on this are two things. And I did this for when I worked on the National Security Council staff to here. Let me let me draw your attention to two figures here as a as a librarians and as a government documents archivist and librarians here that we spent back in 2017 18 and a half billion dollars on keeping things secret. We only spent $100 million on declassifying information. And that's not a lot of money in that discrepancy is going to get is going to affect our democracy. The volume of information has greatly exceeded our ability to declassify it. If you look here and this is the other kind of figure that I like to show here and that is the volume of electronic records just held. By my old agency to presidential libraries which went from Reagan and Bush combined a less than two terabytes of electronic data to Donald Trump's administration who in four years amassed over 250 terabytes of data. As much as the previous president Barack Obama had amassed an eight. Importantly, the George W. Bush library has a backlog of 153 million pages in its FOIA queue freedom of information at queue. And under the current processing, it's going to take 130 years to declassify and make that records and make that information available to the public and access denied is not helpful to our democracy. It certainly is not helpful to our policymakers either who will want to learn from the past. So we do need to think about adjusting that bottom figure of 103 million and investing in technologies and processes that will enable us to do a much better job of declassifying information when it no longer needs to be classified. Now, a lot of people have talked about the effect of Julian Assange and Edward Snowden and other other folks who who leaked information.  If you have a security clearance, you are expected in the order President Obama's order expects you to challenge the classification. If you do not believe in good faith, the information is properly classified. It's either improper in itself, where it's classified at too low or too high of a level, or it no longer meets the standards of the executive order that I showed you. And it should be declassified. And it does include in this executive order processes for how one goes about making a classification challenge. And I stress this in my training to that the first is that every agency is required to have formal written procedures on how to receive and how to evaluate a classification challenge. And that includes an informal challenge that could be word of mouth, or a formal challenge that's done in a written format. Original classification authorities have a role to play in deciding those challenges. But even if the original classification authority ultimately decides, no, I think that information is classified. The person who's made that challenge can still appeal. So there are appellate processes within the agency. And if that person is still not happy with the appellate level decision, he can go to the interagency security classification appeals panel and have this interagency body make that decision. So this body does prioritize those classification challenge appeals so that they're decided upon fairly quickly. I can tell you that I have done, I have challenged classification personally, and they've come out in my favor, but they were, they were considered very robustly within the agency. So this is the appellate level two, but the decision was made fairly quickly that no one that information is no longer classified. So this process does work, I can tell you that. And it is put in there specifically to permit those of us who believe that information is classified for the wrong reasons or at too high a level, have the ability within the system to help make that decision. And it also say kind of lastly here that there is no matter what the agencies are required in their written procedures to ensure that there is no retribution for anybody who makes a classification challenge. So this is kind of my concluding slide by quoting Potter Stewart from the Pentagon Papers case back in 1971. And this is very important here for when everything is classified nothing is classified in the system becomes one to be disregarded by the cynical or the careless. The classification system for me personally it is very important that we do classify information there are important secrets that we need to keep to protect our nation security. But I also firmly believe that we should only classify what we must. And that we have to be able to share that information with our allies, our partners with all of the stakeholders who need to see that information who can use that information to protect us. And to do so in a way that they can protect us in the timely fashion. I spent a lot of my career declassifying information so the power to declassify is very important. It is a key democratic tenant. And it's it's one that is a that is very important to our democracy so I will leave it at that I've, I've droned on about the classification system for 40 minutes so thanks for bearing with me, and I'll throw it back to Aaron. So thanks very much. Thank you so much Don for for such a enlightening presentation. I know many of us really are grateful for this opportunity of having you here and to speak speak so more in depth about this this topic. And you see the applause coming from from members of the attendees that have gathered with us. I do want to open up for the questions I do see a few questions in the chat. I do want to make sure that I am going through all of them, and I'll at least start with some of the ones that were saved in chat. Robert lever lever good pose a question if only information and data, but not records or documents are classified. Then in what form are the information and data review. We can hit that job. Yeah, it's a great question though, and it really is it's true that information data. That's what is classified it's the information itself. What is is how information is marked and it's supposed to be marked anyway as confidential secret or top secret, whether that's on paper. If it's electronic electronic format, even on the electronic front format at the very top. There's usually there are what I did not talk about in this presentation. In the executive order 13526 there is something called an implementing directive, which is 32 CFR 2001 and if you go to the information security oversight office and to their policy document section, you'll find both the executive order and this directive in the implementing directive essentially provides the instructions for how you implement executive order 13526 and it has a very big section on how you properly mark in for mark records, whether it's electronic data or different types of media to ensure that it is the user understands that the information they are about to need to use, look at is classified and is restricted and sensitive in some way. Thanks. Thank you. Another question in chat and for those who may have questions for me to raise your hand within the attendees function. You'll find I believe under the reactions tab. The next question is from Ben Amato and it's a two part question I see. How do we know if the intent or practice of the executive order is working to reduce over classification. That's the first question. Does it appear so based on your status and who provides the data on classifying and classifying. Those are also great questions. One of the things that well what I did not talk about in this presentation but it's included in a section of the executive order. There is a section in the order that talks about program management both within an agency and then overall across the executive branch. The information security oversight is tasked with every year compiling statistics from agencies to evaluate the health of the classification system and then to report on what it finds to the president.  The last report to the president is from fiscal year 2022. And it will talk about the health of the classification system what they found from gathering data from the agencies the number of OCA is the decisions that they have made. We used to report on the number of derivative classification decisions that have made. But it looks not just at that it looks at the number of classification challenges that the agency has received it looks at how many classification guides. Agencies have and how many they have updated how many have they determined were obsolete. Things like that and then this is all then publicly reported both first to the president and then it's put up on the ICU website so that's one mechanism to both improve the system. By ensuring that there's accountability and to be very transparent about it. What I'll also say though is that back in 2009 this executive order was pretty groundbreaking. It really was especially on this idea here of trying to really focus on reducing the volume of over classification into putting strict limits on the ability of agencies to exempt information from automatic declassification. That said, this order was still very much written with paper in mind. We are no longer in an era of paper as one of the slides I just showed you. And it's one of the reasons why if you if you look at the FY 2022 ICU annual report you'll see that the government is in the process of developing a new executive order that I think will be much more focused on the digital government that now exists. And also in looking for new metrics to evaluate the success of what it comes up with in terms of holding people accountable and for classifying information at the correct level. Thanks for that. Thank you. Another question by Park Lane walks home poses is the George W Bush library the farthest behind the responding to to FOIA requests of all the presidential libraries. So first of course the there are a couple other laws that kind of weigh in here to so the the presidential records act does limit. And it does kind of put in some rules about when you can start to receive FOIA requests and also kind of sets limits on on the restrictions that apply. The presidential library at the moment has the longest but I don't know that for a fact, but I would suspect that since it's the one of the more recent libraries and has a great volume of data that it's probably the largest. It is a it is a concern I think for the presidential libraries and all across government here I think on how to look for new methods to automate processes as opposed to doing the manual review that that David talked about that even though it used to take on a good day seven years to get a single piece of paper through the entire process. That process, even if it's reform does not work with 250 terabytes worth of data it just does not. You have to use machine learning technologies. I have a partnership for public service recently published an article about my agency's effort to start to think about using machine learning technologies to help automate some of those decisions so that process has started already. I was going to open up if you've got a question that you would like to pose. Well, he just answered it. I was just going to ask about, you know how machine learning tools or AI or how they might help in this process, but also how they could present a challenge. And, and from, you know, protecting information from actually being released that shouldn't be so, but that seems to have been addressed but I imagine it's something that your agency is talking about quite a bit. Yeah, they are and this is it is a very difficult issue here in agencies are using lots of artificial intelligence and machine learning technologies for other things now. I think it's important that we, this is john powers talking here but I think that we do it is important that we try these and we do some risk analysis and to see what we get right. We don't let the perfect be the enemy the good perhaps, but we have to recognize that well maybe there are some bits of information that we don't want released that really we do need to be perfect maybe that's that highest level top secret information that's very current. But there are some things that we need to at least think about and try and to look at a more risk based approach, especially as information gets older. There's another thing about the digital age here that is that information becomes stale very very quickly. So there isn't really as big of a need to keep things, wrotely classified for longer periods of time, especially because events have just overtaken them quicker. So I do think that there is a role for AI and machine learning in this process it's one that's going to be that is going to require some pretty good thought and some technologists to work on it it's going to require lots of good data and time. But it is something that I think the government is going to have to address. I know that Aaron is at the University of Maryland University of Maryland is a leader in this field. And that's one of the things that that they're trying to look at to see well what can we do to make information, especially older information available quicker with that in a more automated fashion, maybe it's secret and below, or maybe it's just confidential information but there are some things that we ought to try. A few more questions that have come in. Could you could political appointees politicize the appeals process or their legal safeguards. Well, so that's a tough question to answer here. In my view, the answer is no. The people who make classification decisions. The rules are set in the executive order. There is one law that governs classification and that's the atomic Energy Act of 1954 is amended, which classifies very specific types of nuclear weapons information and nuclear technology. There's also restricted data or a weird misnomer called formally restricted data, but that information is class classified according to statute. There's also a statute that covers the inappropriate or improper disclosure of the names of undercover intelligence sources.  So there are some statutes but otherwise the information is protected and safeguarded according to executive order and then decisions on the length of classification or to appeal that classification goes through an interagency process. Now the interagency process it does involve kind of senior level officials from those agencies I mentioned. The director of national intelligence Department of State Department of Defense Department of Justice National Security Council and the National Archives. And then if the CIA has their information at stake they are allowed to participate in that discussion as well. But those are professional civil servants who have decades of experience working with the classification system. They've worked with them and I know the day of work with them to these are people that way very carefully and they make decisions on whether to continue classification or not, based on the merit of whether that information meets the standards or not. Now, who's to say, you know, ultimately, the current executive order, the ice caps decisions are discretionary, which means that the agency head if he doesn't like or she doesn't like the decision could appeal to the president who could overrule the interagency classification appeals panel decision. What I'll say is that that has never happened. In fact, there have been a few instances where an agency head did not like the ice caps decision to declassify information, but in both of those instances, the president did not weigh in and refuse to take that appeal. So it's technically I suppose it's possible that a president could weigh in, but it's never happened before. I want to take the last few questions. This next one is a three parter, and it goes like this how is declassification handled as a part of the process of compiling the FR us. That's the first question. The second one do historians have security clearances. And the third, do they request the classification of records of interest. Three great questions. And that's, that's, that's kind of where I am have found a home here in the last month here working for the office of the historian department of state. So the department of state historians do go out. They look at records across government that they believe are the most historically important that would enable them to tell the story of us foreign policy and comply with the 1991 statute. After they have compiled what they believe are the most important records. We, the historians do seek declassification of those records by going out to the agencies the agencies are expected to make those decisions within 120 days. And get them back so that the the office can then do all the editorial work and the editing work that goes into publishing those volumes. So there is a process in place for that. And then the third part of your question is, do they kind of find the historically significant. Well, that's one of the things that they do. That's not to say that they're not always the most historical, but they, they certainly try their best as they do their research across the executive branch and in the presidential libraries to find the ones that they believe are the most important. There are several different agency historical advisory committees, including at the Department of State, including at the CIA, and other agencies, Department of Energy, Office of Secretary of Defense, all have historians. They all have security clearances and they're tasked with compiling the history of their departments too. So, so that does happen. So thanks for that. And with that, thank you John powers for your presentation and for answering some of these questions and I turn it back over to Kate. Thank you, Aaron. I really appreciate all of your questions. As you can see here, we have a QR code where you can provide feedback on today's presentation presentations in the past, you can also offer up any ideas for future webinars. You can also see our YouTube channel here at the bottom and contact me if you would like to volunteer for the help committee that's always appreciated. And with that, thank you very much for attending. Thanks John. This was really, really, really interesting and thank you to go towards education committee for co hosting this with me. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Everybody have a great day. Thank you for doing this.


Paid $5 in an online auction sold for full price of $349 and 59 cents. Oh my goodness. This one's hilarious. I love it. Hey fellow buddies. Thanks for watching Amazing right? All right, let's get started Hey fellow buddies, thanks for watching. All right Let's talk about some big money bolo some items to be on the lookout for items You can hopefully buy low and sell for a profit in this video I'm gonna tell you where they got the item what they paid for it and what it sold for Who sold the items members of my bolo buddies Facebook group and my YouTube channel? I posted this in the Facebook group. It says share your best January bolo and They all shared and now I'm gonna put it in video format so that we can all learn and I'm gonna tell you I learned so much from this from doing this video. All right So here we go with the first one this one comes from YouTube channel vintage spice and this girl is a bolo finder She has a newer YouTube channel, but I tell you what I watch her what sold videos and I learned something new every single time So definitely go sub her up She is a bolo buddies member that means she has joined memberships level 2 There's a link below that tells you all about that Basically, if you join at level 2 you will get a mention in the video with a pop-up and a link down in the description She bought this at an online auction She has about three dollars into it and sold it for a full sale price of eighty two seventy nine in a few hours It is an original marks been her place at in per figure Cream color 1950s. She is super knowledgeable about marks. So check her out Okay, here's one of mine if you don't know about these definitely be on the lookout I found I think there were four of them and they were just sitting in my money pile in my garage And I was kind of going through things and I saw them and I'm like, I think I saw these Listed in my Facebook group recently as a bolo. So I pulled them out put batteries in them They are definitely a bolo. I Prop I don't remember. I think I got them at a garage sale, but I'm not a hundred percent sure But probably paid less than a buck for them because that's I just know how I source They are pixel chicks love to shop mall 2005 pink purse interactive Tested in working. This is what it looks like. I sold this for seventy seven dollars and fifty cents plus shipping. This one comes from Kitsch, oh, I can't say the word kitschy Canson is it k i t s c h y can somebody give me a cheat sheet of how to say that word kitschy Canson that's her eBay store name. That's what it looks like Bought this blown glass decanter at my local flea market for seven thought it could possibly be and pulley It had a beautiful glass owl head stopper Had it listed for a hundred and within a couple days got an offer of seventy that I accepted Oh, it's an owl and it's so cool. Check it out. That is cool All right, here's another one From the same gal found this Viking glass bird at my local flea market for three dollars and fifty cents And it sold within a couple weeks for full asking price of fifty dollars It is a Viking MCM mid-century modern art glass avocado green robin bird figurine And here is another one bought this case Carving set from an individual paid up for it fifty dollars listed it for a hundred and fifty and within three weeks of listing I accepted an offer of a hundred and twenty So this is one of those things where she knew it was valuable and she was willing to pay up for it And it sold quickly. It's a vintage noble duo by case Stainless steel carving set and this is what it looks like paid five dollars in an online auction sold for full price of three hundred and forty nine dollars and fifty nine cents This one comes from vintage Vintage spice. I just told you she has an awesome YouTube channel $349 you guys it's a vintage dollhouse miniature artisan carpet or rug. It's needle point One of a kind needle point rug for a dollhouse $349 and fifty nine cents Wow, right just wow Here's another one from her paid four dollars for a baggie of dolls and accessories at the Salvation Army I have sold almost everything from the bag for big money sold for full price of sixty nine ninety one It is a Sophia fairy costume outfit doll nine inch cruisling Kathy Cruz jointed vinyl doll Kathy Cruz I found a wood dollhouse figure by Kathy Cruz I'm pretty sure that's the same the one same one I found and it was a bolo also So definitely look up that name if you see it, but these are um vinyl never seen these All right, this comes from Lola's trunk treasures and this is her eBay store vintage Christmas ornament clips pack of 12 Purchase four packs total at an estate sale for a dollar each Three of the packs were duplicates gold with a star pattern and one pack was silver with a snowman Sold the three star pattern packs to one buyer who was all in for a hundred and thirty five forty eight After getting 15 off coupon Also sold the last package for 46 after discount. Wow, that's awesome Here's another one from Lola's trunk treasures Picked up at the Claire's exclusive spongebob squishmallow for four dollars. So Claire's is a store that's typically like in a mall But uh, she got it at the Goodwill for four bucks and sold him in less than 12 hours for a best offer of 45 dollars So this is a kelly toy squishmallow um Whenever you can find like walmart not walmart wall greens cvs clairs um exclusives for stores like that They can definitely be something you want to look up the rebel reseller definitely check out her youtube channel She sells a ton of plush and that is one thing she talks about. I think uh target and walmart even those as well So they may be bread and butter, but they do sell.  Okay. If you don't know some webkins go for crazy money I recently did a video on webkins. It looks like this go check it out because you're gonna want to know Which ones to look for because i'm talking hundreds of dollars for some of them And it looks like Lola's trunk treasures has a coupon in her store. So she's linked down below. You can check out her coupon This one comes from eBay store dolo's deals and this is what it looks like She said I picked this up at the bins for 15 cents was going to keep it for myself till I looked up comps Listed it at 198 99 had three offers and 24 hours. I countered at 175 She said I sell mainly on etsy, but I knew this would sell fast if I put it on ebay Dolo deals on ebay and etsy and a proud bolo buddies member. Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you so much It is brinda gant. It's gonna be good y'all cookbook 2021. So it's not even that old Wow Like that makes me want to look up every cookbook, right? We purchased this scarf for two dollars and 99 cents and sold the next day We had never heard of this brand, but it is definitely a bolo Pine pinda pinada Covalent vintage mexico multicolored floral scarf vintage 80s 70 by 20 And this is what it looks like Another antique book sold on etsy 15 cent purchase at the bins probably took about a year to sell This is also dolo deals and it sold for 50 plus shipping It's an antique 1904 early handwriting reference book. Wow. That's cool Got this shelly tea cup and saucer set for 15 cents at a local clearance bins type store Where you can fill a 50 gallon trash bag for $10 Sold in less than 24 hours to a best offer of 80 on ebay tea cups can definitely be a bolo And this is what it looks like Purchased this and two small bins full of stamps from a church sale a few weeks ago 12 dollars for everything This pays for everything purchased that day This pays for everything purchased that day plus the almost 300 and stamps I have listed It says precious moments nativity rubber stamps set of nine christmas religion star pmi and this is what it looks like My dad has a ton of oop kung fu books He no longer wanted them sold on best offer, but zero cost it is a oh Some word I can't say karate history Book that's what it looks like sold it for 49.99 Purchased this last year at a yard sale for five dollars was going back and forth on offers Then they purchased it for full asking It is a precious moments disney little mermaid figure love is the greatest treasure It's rare and it looks like it's in the original box 125 on that one Oh my goodness. This one's hilarious. I love it Purchased at a local thrift store last year had no clue what it was, but puppets are a good seller I agree. I pick up every puppet. I find that is a good a good price was shocked to learn what it was only paid three dollars and I have grad paul too It is for um I don't know what that means Rare jim hints in the tale of the bunny picnic twitch bunny puppet. This is what it looks like Found this in a garage on the second day of an estate sale sitting in plain sight on a shelf Just grabbed without looking it up paid ten dollars for about eight items So about a dollar 25 average cost couldn't find any comps or solds in the past two years sold in under 48 hours for full price Maybe I should have priced it higher, but i'm still happy with the money and the quick turnover It's a vintage marty ascenders right and left switzerland with foot rope Loops, I don't know what it is, but that's what it looks like bought in december at a thrift for 75 cents and sold in a matter of weeks It is a new Barney's big surprise live on stage vhs sealed sold for 49 dollars and 99 cents plus shipping Found these at an estate sale last week for less than three dollars sold both to the same seller at same buyer at full asking Only the bezels no watch So they are the Gucci bezels like the color changing like you can change the band or the The bezel they're not color changing, but you can like clip them on and off So yeah 179 for this one And 119 for that one no watch just the paperwork and the box and the stuff Got this for free at an estate estate lean-out box Wait, hold on got this at an estate Oh Got this at an estate clean out boxes in really rough condition got full asking price of 100 dollars But it did take about six months to sell Ralph Lauren chaps vintage 1979 cologne boxed gift set never used It is never used new in the box. That is allowed. Go check out my perfume video if you haven't watched it There are rules for selling perfume. So don't get your account suspended. Don't get in trouble It's been a week of great bolo sales for me this week I found this leather notebook at the bends was skeptical at first But I had to grab it when I saw the comp sold in less than a week for a best offer of 119. It is a marley hogson Hodg Hodgson h-o-d-g-s-o-n Garuka G-h-u-r-k-a Refillable leather notebook legal pad folio business access. That's what it looks like Found this plush in the reject bin by the register at the goodwill outlet I don't know what that means the reject bin. Maybe that's just kind of where people throw things as they're leaving like I don't want it There were at least 10 five nights at freddy's plush that had been cast off there Sold this in a couple weeks for a best offer of 60 dollars. It is the golden freddy stuffed animal Bought a bag of marbles For two dollars and fifty cents it savers Um a month or so ago because there were several marble styles in the bag. I had never seen before I sold several lots Of three or four marbles for ten dollars each in the past couple weeks And this single shooter marbles sold today for 69 dollars still have half the bag to sell That's pretty Someone must have donated their entire doll collection because I found nearly an entire bin full of vintage dolls at the goodwill outlet last week I grabbed as many as I could and i'm still listing a few but this one sold overnight for a best offer of 30 Susie sad eyes vintage doll original dress tights and shoes Oh my goodness 30 dollars I've never seen her before but she looks so special 30 dollars seems so cheap Anybody know about her? I'm gonna have to look that one up Bought this rare jelly cat bashful bunny on at a consignment store for eight bucks sold for full asking price almost priced it low Almost priced it too low as I was copying out the smaller size until I went to a jelly cat collector site Sold it for 220 and 80 cents plus shipping if you guys have not seen my jelly cat bolo video Go watch it. I definitely talk about the bunnies Bought this off marketplace with a few other snoopy items So I paid eight for this sold in a few weeks for full asking price of 85 plus shipping It is the 2005 monopoly snoopy. It's a dog's life collector's edition board game This one comes from bolo buddies member follow me for fantastic finds on ebay. This is her ebay store Found at the goodwill bins went because of you But I wasn't gonna crowd those people they are mean couldn't find much else other than clothes But found this awesome suede leather vests. So maybe five dollars due to weight sold in six days for 43 plus shipping It's a black suede leather vests cody james mens That is so funny. I love love love the goodwill bins And I don't think they are all created equal because there's so many people that say they hate it and people are mean I love mine people are so nice. I mean, I'm sure there's people that have problems, but Um, I see people all the time that watch the channel. So if you're watching Thanks for watching. Thanks for shopping with me. Um, but we have a good time. So, um Yeah, that's really the only place that I see people that watch the channel or at least that come up to me and say they watch the channel All right, so here this one's from her also follow me for fantastic finds another barn find almost didn't list it Wasn't sure if the stones were real. It was rusty and tarnished, but I figured I'd list it anyway I made sure to point out the lack of authenticity I Just said authenticity so good I can't believe how good I said it. It just came right out. You guys if you've been watching me a while I struggle so hard with that word I am I I'm in shock right now literally that it came out that smooth I'm getting better. I'm getting better practice practice makes perfect Anyway sold it in a couple days for 15 dollars. It may be worth much more But I was happy with the 15 I asked her to send me a photo if she cleaned it up And she told me she wasn't going to clean it up that it was beautiful the way it is And hey, I am more happy to leave I'm more than happy to leave meat on the bone in cases when I don't know the item Oh, yeah, that's beautiful Oh, yeah, that might have been a big money bolo anybody know jewelry because I don't but that looks amazing Wow Tarnished turquoise jade gold tone brooch c notes And here's another one from follow me for fantastic finds ebay store. This was another barn find so free It's a tag to go on your car for states that don't require license on the front It was never used and sold quickly for 25 dollars.  No, no cursing. No bad words. Nothing here like that Uh, everyone is welcome to watch this channel Anyway, it has a picture of a donkey instead of the word.  So 25 on that one All right, we are gonna stop there And I'm gonna thank you all for being here and thank you for watching if you want to join memberships awesome If you don't no problem at all no pressure at all It's just there if you want to and there's details down below. Thank you so much Leave me an emoji of A hat and this is in my merch store now Bolo buddies hats turned out great. I wanted to get one for myself before I wanted to make sure the embroidery looked good and they turned out awesome So these are Available on teespring and I do have a link down below. I also have bolo buddy shirts and different merch So if you guys want to support something that's bolo buddies by all means that link is down below if not No worries. I wear it all the time just because the sweatshirts. I live in them. They're so comfortable All right, you guys leave me an emoji of a hat. Thanks for being here. Thanks for watching and I'll see you at the next one Have a great night. Hey, plo Sorry, I've been recording for like 10 hours. No kidding


Good afternoon everybody. Welcome back to another vlog Excuse me. I would normally edit that out maybe but you know, this is just real life. Hi. Welcome. Thanks for being here I went on a nice little hopper walk this morning. I made my favorite salad for lunch I just hopped on in meeting with my YouTube partner manager who is probably my favorite person in the entire world Like it's literally like therapy for my YouTube channel and I just love her so much Anyways, I am wearing a new shirt and I've been like obsessed with it I'm pretty sure it's still available and I kind of just want to show my outfit. Oh also When I haven't vlogged in like two days, I feel like there's a million things I need to talk about I did my hair a little bit differently. It totally fell out I tried something with like a curling iron and it didn't work So I'm gonna try it again with the Dyson air up. It still looks cute But yeah need to work on it But I did that sort of like trendy brown eye shadow eyeliner instead of like my typical Solid black cat eye and I think it's kind of cute. I'm also wearing a new lip stain. It's the hold on Let's just go find it. I can show you my shirt later. The stain itself Drew's on a work call. I need to be Cautious here. Well, let's just set you down here. We hung up that photo on the wall. Please don't fall It's a painting actually from my friend Dina Jones and she made that painting I unboxed it like I probably had it what close to a year ago Or maybe at the beginning of this year and it is this gorgeous painting of Mu and Layla Inside of out of the box like inside the box. Anyway, the lip stain is called the Fenty Beauty Poutsicle in the color my type and it's like that a doe foot applicator It's kind of like a liquid lipstick. Oh Drew's out of his meeting and it's also supposedly a stain And then I put one of the Fenty Beauty like gloss bomb. I think let's find out together. It is called the Fenty I use like all Fenty lip products and actually the face like the foundation as well Yeah, it's called the Fenty gloss bomb in the color Fenty glow So that's my lip combo for today Should I just show you the rest of the stuff that I've been using is that kind of thing interesting? I don't know. We'll see. Okay, so I also used I did like a little bit of Ulze Tone Sephora damage recently. I do it like once a year I use the Olaplex number seven oil in my hair today My hair is just like so stringy right now and is in desperate need of a haircut I need to find like a good hairstylist here in LA. I also got this benefit 24 hour brow setter gel So I'm kind of trying to do like the fluffier, you know, laminated look today for my face Instead of doing just straight foundation I mixed it with this really expensive tinted moisturizer that Ingrid Nielsen recommended and if you're like me And have been obsessed with Ingrid back like since the Miss glamorazzi days Um, I'll pretty much buy anything she recommends still this brand is called say. I think Sai I'm not sure how to say it, but this is the slip tint and it's a little bit light coverage And it's not very long lasting but like I wore it to the pool the other day and it was great But I mixed it with the Fenty beauty pro filter foundation today and I like the way it turned out So, okay, anyways back to the shirt that I'm wearing It's from Abercrombie and it's like one of their little corset tank tops and it's so cute. I love love love it Let me move this This is what comes with um making fashion videos online. What is this up? These were lamps that we ordered that don't work. So that's my um chair of returns So anyway, here is my little casual outfit of the day This top is just so cute and what I really want to do with it is like throw a blazer over it and like some Kind of baggier jeans for like a nighttime look and I just think it's so simple But it just cuts like the way that I would really want it to and these are just like my favorite thrifted denim shorts They used to be um jeans and I cut them a couple years ago But like yeah Loving this look today very simple But anyway, what I thought I would do actually for today's vlog is something that I've put off for a while and not because Like I don't want to but just because I've been like busy doing other things But like I don't know a couple weeks ago I was like, hey like, you know now that we're moved in and settled and stuff I feel like it would be a good time for you to send me your questions So we can catch up and just sort of see where I'm at with like the whole moving process and stuff So I posted it on instagram and I just realized that this morning. I was like, uh, I never answered any of these questions We'll just start right at the top and it says favorite part of your new place and least favorite part Also, I'm right by the road. So if you can hear cars, I'm sorry That would probably be my least favorite part actually now that I think about it So this office that I film in it's not a busy street at all It's just you can hear cars when they drive by so and I'm not like super close to the road here It just kind of is the position of the room So that's probably my least favorite part as far as my favorite part There are so many like I love this room. I love hanging out in this room so much I love our kitchen. Our kitchen is amazing. I love the back patio We've been doing some work obviously as you saw like there's just so many cute little parts of this apartment that I love So like pros are You know the outdoor space so much space in the apartment itself There's tons of storage the cons are like limited outlets because it's an old apartment The crows are really going at it out there limited outlets Um, it's old. So there's things that are like definitely falling apart Like I feel like if there was a really bad earthquake, we would definitely be pancakes in here But overall, it's a fantastic apartment. It's probably one of the better apartments We've ever lived in and people that are from here that come visit this place are like you better hold on this place Like it's a gem anything you regret about moving back to la. Oh interesting regret No, not really like this whole thing has been very serendipitous And it truly just happened. I think the way it was supposed to happen. We went into it You know when I found this listing online I wasn't even really that in love with it If you remember if you watched my apartment touring video Like this place was just sort of a place that I wanted to come look at because it was like a filler for You know to like fill up space like wow, we were here in la We were like we might as well look at at least a couple places And this was the only other place that got back to me about viewing on like such short notice And then when we saw it in person I don't know just like the more I was here the more I was like I could see myself living here Like I really could so like regrets. No, I don't think that there are any like I really do Love living here. I love this apartment. I love being in la I'm happy with this chapter of my life for sure How have you been doing with feeling like you're at home rather than somewhere else? Oh, that's actually like a really good topic So I've never really lived in like the same place long enough even growing up to like have that Oh, I feel like I'm at home type of thing. I'm just constantly like I'm used to living in a bunch of different places if that makes sense so it usually So it usually does take like I don't know probably A few weeks to a month to really feel like oh, okay This is my house. I live here and it takes like a lot of you know Going to your local grocery store finding your favorite coffee shop, you know driving out to see people and then driving home Um getting into a routine getting into work, you know walking the neighborhood things like that So it has taken a little bit, but I would say probably by like it's the end of july now We moved in like mid june It's probably like this week that I started feeling like oh, okay. This is like my home Like I live here. This isn't just like an airbnb with my stuff in it. You know what I mean? But I genuinely like I have started to feel at home here It definitely still feels like someone else's apartment, but it also feels like I live here if that makes sense I would say honestly when we lived in our old house It took like a year for that. It just didn't feel homey to me for some reason But eventually in the end it did and now I'm like, oh, that's my house. I wonder who's living in my house these days What has been your favorite things since moving back to la love you love you too My favorite thing is probably closer to friends and the weather Those are like my two top things and there's just so much to do But like, you know, I have decade plus, you know going on two decade plus long friendships of people who live here And um, it's just so nice to be able to be like, hey, do you want to come watch love island this weekend or whatever? It's really nice. My partner and I are thinking about moving to la from the east coast any tips. That's a good question I've only so fun fact. I did live on the east coast for like a year and a half I lived in maine in like 20 from like 2012 to 2014 And it was a different experience for me because I am not a winter girly So that was like really difficult I was in a relationship at the time and like wonderful person have nothing but good things to say But it just like wasn't the right fit at the right time in life, you know So I don't have like a ton of experience to compare it But like I mean tips as far I would say vet your sources Like honestly do the most research possible for like movers read every single review like only pick maybe google recommended places Like google does a thing where if you book through them or something like that There's like a guarantee if something goes wrong, you know, definitely pick like good movers unless you're moving yourself Which like go for it and when you move to la like itself Definitely make sure you research the neighborhood that you're looking into Like you really want to live in like a good neighborhood that fits in with the vibe that you're going for You know factoring in like where it is you're working if you're working from home Then you know don't worry as much about that But if you have like a commute I would definitely recommend living within like five miles of where you work Maybe less definitely like plan where you live around where you work because um the traffic here is insane It can take you like an hour to go a couple of miles. So yeah, those are like my top tips Those were just off the top of my head. I probably should have thought about that better But good luck I got a lot of questions of like do you prefer la over arizona type of thing and you can't even compare them Like they're two totally different places also I only can speak for phoenix and like the phoenix, you know metro area because that's the only places that I lived in arizona But they're just so different. They're totally different vibes and phoenix has just so many people that are moving there That it is like changing a lot too. Um and like, you know, I was born there I lived like over half of my life there So I definitely feel like I have like some blood of a grasp of what's going on But um, yeah, it's just it totally depends on like what you like more if you're into more of like a suburban type of vibe Phoenix is much less of like a walkable city You kind of have to drive to go everywhere. The weather is totally different The political climate is totally different. Um, not what I would necessarily prefer Although it is getting better and la is different in its own ways as well Like there's a shit ton more traffic. There's a lot more people There's like people drive differently out here. Like there's so many different things But which place would I prefer like I honestly, I mean sure for this chapter in my life I would say la but like I love both places for different reasons How are mu and leila adjusting to the new place in la? By the way, I just love you. Oh my god. Love you too They're doing great. They're thriving leila is well I just brought her inside but she lays out on the patio We go for our walk in the morning and then she sits out there for like hours until like the direct sunlight hits the patio And she just loves it. She loves life. She just lays out there and she naps and she's just an outdoor girl She loves being outside. She was the same way in arizona But for half of the year she couldn't do that in arizona So she's really happy and honestly, I think mu is happier here because with the old house and like having two stories and stuff I don't know if it was just his age or like him just being a cat. I don't know But he would get really like Um, he would cry a lot like he would wander the halls at night and like cry out for us and Like if we were upstairs, he would cry for us to come downstairs and vice versa And so like I think being in a smaller space. He genuinely is happier like he loves life Do you notice a difference in spending money on gas since you are walking distance now? I think that just means like because I can walk more places Yes, and no, I mean drew and I both work from home. So we don't really drive that that much So like for example, I think I lived here for almost a month before I got gas and I think I've gotten gas like Two times since I've lived here in like a month and a half. So that's just kind of like Kind of evens itself out. But yeah, gas is way more expensive here, obviously But I think more than like having things be walking distance, which I love I think it's more like we don't use our cars as often. So yeah, we are saving on gas But it was the same in arizona too. How did you find your la apartment realtor or apps and any app recommendations? So I used the same Traditional ones that I use for everything. I used zillow trulia. Those were like the two main ones Occasionally I would look on you know, like apartment list apartment finder all those different ones But I don't really use those. I literally just use like zillow and trulia way more people prefer zillow But I actually prefer the format of trulia. I think I'm just like more familiar with it So that's actually what I use to find this place And I love that you can look at like the street view and see like what the actual street looks like Because sometimes you'll see an address and you're like, oh, this place looks so cute And like you'll look at a map and it looks fine But then when you do like the street view and you can get like a good feel of what's around You can be like, oh, it's right next to like a drive through that's open 24 hours or whatever, you know Um, so it like gives you I just like the option of being able to look at that I think they have that on zillow as well But I just prefer like the layout of trulia. Oh my memory card is running out Is it great no longer having stairs with leila's health issues? Yes. Oh my god It's so amazing. She's just so much happier. Like it's it's such a relief for us to not have to think Every time we bring her down the stairs like is she gonna tear her other acl type of thing? So yes, it's made a huge difference. Did the old house inspection go? Okay How was reverse making over the dark academia paint? It was fine. Um, no notes They were completely fine with it. We low key didn't ask Um, if we could paint that room, but we painted it back to its original paint and like there was no problems with it So yeah, everything's good got her deposit back kind of a headache getting out of that situation because actually like our landlord I'll maybe do like a story time about it. Honestly, nice this lady ever But such a bizarre experience leaving because she was out of the country for like the entire month leading up to us moving And her husband took over and I had never met or talked to her husband before And so he was like who our point of contact was and he kept asking questions like hey I heard you have a youtube channel Can I send your videos to like perspective tenants so that they can see what the inside of the house looks like? And I was just like when did I tell you I had a youtube channel? Like it was just bizarre and I was like, no, can you please not send my videos to people while I still live in the house? Anyways, so that was kind of bizarre But other than that, like it was fine. It worked out. We got out of there Someone said your true thoughts on moving back to LA. Um, I'm I give my true thoughts no matter what like whatever I'm saying That's how I'm feeling. That's the true thoughts. So there isn't some sort of like secret Oh, I secretly hated or I secretly regret it. Like I genuinely am loving life. I love being here Do I see myself being here forever? I don't know like as of right now We only have a lease that goes until what the end of may of next year and we're just gonna enjoy it while we can It's not like a fairy tale by any means. Um, there are adjustments and Driving is harder and we're far away from family and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, like it's been Awesome. I'm loving it. I will end it because I've already been blabbing long enough I will end it on this question that said I will end it on this question that said how is your mental health since moving in the last vlog you were glowing That's so nice.  Like I did not expect this. I did not expect to be so deeply affected And on top of that, I did not expect the just like overwhelming positive response to Me talking about it and just the amount of messages I got from people who are like I go through the same thing This is what I've been diagnosed with or these are the exact specifics of like what I do when I'm going through a cycle like this And they're like exactly what I did like it made me feel so validated Like I instantly started feeling better and I was like, wow, why didn't I open up about this like a couple weeks ago? Because I felt so much relief in knowing that other people were feeling the same way So like now my mental health is exponentially better. I'm feeling pretty much 100% better But I just want to make sure that we normalize the fact that like what you're watching Online if someone's life is what they're choosing to show So even though I am gonna like, you know update and stuff and it like I've seen comments of people being like you're glowing I am very much glowing and I'm very happy to be here But that last little sort of like dip that I took with my mental health It really shook me it really shook me up like it knocked me on my ass for a while So I just want to also make sure that I note that so you don't compare your low points to my high points and then think like My life doesn't look like that or whatever, you know, I'm setting down to edit this now And I just realized I didn't answer one of like the most asked questions Which was how is your neighbor's situation? How is the guy who lives above you? How was the building etc and honestly? Like 10 out of 10 No complaints our neighbor upstairs is a guy who lives by himself He's literally gone like 12 plus hours a day. Like he's quite literally never home We hear him of course, but it's not disruptive at all No parties at 2 30 in the morning Like the only noise we have now is really just from the street that you probably heard throughout this entire video When I was editing it I was just like, oh my god Like it sounds so much louder in this video than it is in person But like honestly, we've had no problems. We've met a couple of the other neighbors in the building Briefly by just being like hi, but truly like no complaints I hope that our upstairs neighbor lives there for the length of time that we live here as well. No notes Fantastic neighbors so far couldn't be happier about that. So anyways, that's gonna do it. This is a lot of chatting I hope you enjoyed because I love videos like this. It makes me feel really connected to you all But thank you so much for being here and I will see you in the next vlog. Bye