So we have also an event next week in Vienna, which is super stacked, a lot of names returning. And of course, everyone's playing for an ATP final spot in the next couple of weeks. There's only a few spots up for grabs. Well, let's go have a look at the withdrawal list because a couple of names have pulled out. Two players have pulled out, John Isner and Gayle Monfice. Isner's been injured I think for the rest of the year and Monfice of course just had a baby. So along with an injury, so he's out as well. So only two names have pulled out eight seeds in this one. Top eight seeds. No one gets to buy in the first round. And Medvedev, coming back for the first time in a long time or in a few weeks since that injury against Nole and also having a baby. He plays with Silesh Vili in the first round. Winner of that match takes in on either team or Paul in the second. It's a Dominic team versus Daniel Medvedev second round. That would be fun. Then you've got the wild card, Missalich taking on Serendolo. Winner of that match takes on either Garen or the number 16, Sinner in the second round. So finally we get to see Sinner back in action as well because both Medvedev and Sinner have been injured the last couple of weeks and they both pulled out with injury two or three weeks ago. So great to see them back on tour. Next part of the draw you've got Rubelev, the number three seed taken on Schwarzman. Winner of that match takes on either Dmitrov or a qualifier in the second round. Then you've got Gricksport taking on Giron. Winner of that match takes on either a qualifier or the seven seed Cam Nori. And again, couple of players in this part of the draw who are playing for the ATV finals spots. We've got Rubelev and Nori both trying to qualify for Turin. And of course this part of the draw takes on the Medvedev part of the draw. So possibly Medvedev, Rubelev, if we're going to go by the seeds or maybe even Sinner versus Nori if you want to go with the upset. Bottom half of the draw now, you've got Batair Baratini, the number eight seed in very good form taking on Dan Evans first round. Winner of that match takes on either Hashinov or a qualifier in the second. Then you've got Rodionov, the wild card taking on Shapovalov. Winner of that match takes on either the qualifier or number four seed Fritz. And again, Fritz and Baratini both playing for ATP final spots. They're in the running. Next week's a big week. You can see Hubei Hercatch, number five seed. He takes on Tiafo in the first round. That's a nightmare. Then the winner of that will play either Senego or Russovori in the second round. Russovori has had a very good week this week. Then you've got Krianovic taking on Chorich. Winner of that match takes on either the wild card Dennis Novak or the number two seed Siti Pass who's in a final this week. So again, Hercatch playing for ATP final spot. Also, Tiafo is an outside chance as well. So a couple of guys there that are playing for a spot in Turin and Siti Pass already qualified. So he's already good to go. But man, what a draw. And of course, this section of the draw will take on the Fritz section of the draw. So possibly semi-final between Fritz and Siti Pass. Hercatch, Baratini, or maybe even some upsets. Maybe you get like Chorich versus Shapo or something random. It is stacked. To be honest, I have no idea. I mean, Siti Pass maybe because he's in form. How does Medvedev look? Sinner? Are they healthy enough to be able to win a tournament like that with this many good players? Baratini maybe. I mean, he's pretty good at the moment. He's playing well. So I don't know. I mean, Siti Pass based on form. I think he's the man. Maybe even Rublev. You know, Rublev has been in form as well on hard courts, indoor hard courts. So maybe Rublev, want to go with an outside chance, but it's going to be stacked next week in Vienna is nuts. Also in Basel as well. So we'll be watching both of those events.


I'm Doug O'Keefe, the host and the producer of the chats, which are a program of the Leather Archives and Museum. Today is May 23, 2022, and I'm having an interview with Cleo Dubois. Cleo is the widow of Fakir Moussafar. She is an educator and a member of the Society of Janus. How are you, Cleo? I am doing just great. You know, one from one day in Dalton, California. That's what I do. I'm great. Thank you. Let's start right at the very beginning. Please tell me a little bit about where you're from, a little bit about your background. I was born and raised in the suburb of Paris, France. Of a family where there was a lot of drama, a lot of abuse, psychological abuse, a little bit physical, not sexual abuse there, and my family was very extremely right-wing. The kind of right-wing that we see raising here right now. So I went to Catholic school, girls only. They were also very racist, as well as anti-gay. So I would say my life turned around completely the opposite of what they wanted me to be. At the time I was 16, I decided to leave home and stop going to school, even though I would have loved to become a philosophy teacher. That was my dream. But I couldn't take living there anymore and at 16, it's allowed in France to leave your family. And I took typing and I started taking, you know, providing for myself. Before I was 21, I moved to the state. Basically, I was attracted to the idea of sexual freedom, of happiness, of free love. I think that one song, if you go to San Francisco, make sure to wear some flower in your hair. Actually, I wore a flower dress from India when I bought the flight that brought me to the state. I had a lot of dreams. I was very adventurous, I was a little crazy because I really didn't know what to expect. I didn't speak English. I knew your basic go to the blackboard, my teller is rich, my teller is not rich. Okay, I knew maybe, you know, where is that, how much it cost, what time is it, but that was about it. And I had a friend who lived in Santa Barbara and at the time he had to get a visa to visit the state and I asked him to invite me.  And that was in 1969, I had to say, oops, I aged to everybody, oh well, so I did. Why San Francisco, why not another city?  And some bad thing that happened to me in France, I suffered sexual violation in a very difficult fashion, which I did a lot of therapy so there's no need to discuss on that. And I wanted out, I wanted to escape, you know, I came from abuse and then I was abused and then I said, okay, I'm going to escape this. And then I became a seeker, seeking for what I really wanted and that was the first thing I wanted. I was also, you know, interested in theater and the person that I knew in Santa Barbara was, you know, a teacher, I knew about theater and things like this, so I had a place to land for a little while and that's what happened in 1969. Well, that was a very tumultuous time to arrive in San Francisco. Tell us a little bit. It was a great time, that's what I was concerned, it was a great time, it was love, sex and rock and roll, I mean, what else could you have at that time, you know? So I moved around, I met different people, you know, one time my bedroom was a janitor closet in a little hotel in Norse Beach, I followed somebody to a commune in Oregon with there was no electricity, completely living, you know, naturally, I mean, I did all kind of things. And then eventually I ended back again in San Francisco, I've gone through a couple of different lovers, I had done a lot of sexual experimentation in terms of free love. One man I was in San Francisco and I had a lover named Bob Starfire who passed away to heart issues and he was a Nazi, he was very supportive, very, I would say he was submissive but I did not know that. He was actually more into service than being submissive. And one day he said to me, look, there is a program I think you'd love, the Gorilla Grotto and I said the Gorilla Grotto, he said, yeah, yeah, it's that place near the hate that is a play environment, you know, intellectual and books and theater and all that and there is a program I think you'd love. And I said, okay, don't tell me, I won't surprise and I'll go with you. So I went with him and that program was the first open talk by a SM woman named Katzon Love, who is still in love, it was still alive, was a journalist for the Berkeley Bar and the Spectator magazine today I think and a wonderful young blonde, very well spoken and she was talking about erotic dominance for women running the show in the bedroom and our, our with consent, we could do all kind of things and negotiation and it was just like the light went boom in my head and she emphasizes that because this was really the date on that which had written some praise but I cannot remember exactly, I think 81, oh 1981, that there was a society, it was a society of genres and that that was started by a woman since just later and if anybody in a audience right there was interested in exploring this erotic venue of power of exchange that it would be the right thing to do would be to join genres because we, I would need, we would need to learn a lot of things so that everything was consensual, negotiated, people would not get hurt, safety and I just went wow, I'm in, I think I joined, there was an orientation and I joined genres pretty much the week after and that's how it started. Take a moment to explain to the audience what the society of Janus is. The society of Janus is still happening even though I've not been to any of that event in a long time. Most Fakir and I and many of our friends are all in their horror fame. It's a second American association for about BDSM, about what was then called SM, about education and the first one was Thess, so we're going to speak of society in Janus in New York and then the society of Janus in San Francisco. It was started by Cynthia Slater and a partner of ours who I didn't meet and I actually do not recall his name at the moment but she was the one who was mainly active.  People like Guy Baldwin were involved in it and his banner or, you know, it was the beginning of it. She, she was bisexual and she invited a gay man that she was close to a world of France and one of her, one of them actually was a lover and that was the owner of the catacomb. She invited them to give program. So by first sharing, sharing about the lifestyle, what worked for them, it was not classes. They were not really classes. They were more sharing time. And so I went to a lot of these things and that's, and the society still exists. It's called society of Janus. They still have orientation and of course you know with COVID the last thing went online but she, it's, it's, I learned a lot from attending meeting, watching demonstrations. In fact that's even where I met Fakir. So one thing to understand is we're talking about the early 80s to mid 80s and during that time here in San Francisco everybody knew everybody. Everybody was into SM because it was not called BDSM and actually there were these discussions about DL. Should it be more DL? Should I have the whole collection of all the news that are right there in my office? Every single one. And we all knew each other and a lot of these people were gay men. Why, um, fetishize was really our love, getting to know, crowded ways, enjoyed, respected. So that's really how, how my leather life started. And the reason why, the real reason, why is the light went up in my head was really not that I thought I was dominant, which in fact I've switched like a lot of people. I'm way more picky about who I bottomed to, that who I would top, but I'm a different choice and value that, that, that those, the reality very much and I've learned a lot from them. But it's a reason why the light went up in my head is because the whole thing was about consent and negotiation.  And the people are very nice and nobody was doing this, wrong or bad, but there was no knowing the person. There was no discussion.  Can I, can I get close to you?  And that was it. And for me, there was something missing. And when I discovered that there was a place where people would negotiate, talk with each other, try things. There was, I was like a kid in the candy store. I wanted to try everything. And then of course, with Janus, this young man named Mark Joplin, who left us during AIDS, was a friend of Fakir, but Mark approached me and he said, I want you to be my dominator. I said, oh, okay, I guess I better learn a few skills. And you know, it was a wonderful playground. And of course, that, you know, that, that goes on because then Mark took me to Karakor, but then I can talk about that if you want to. Yeah, let's take a step back, though. You've covered a lot of material. And I think the audience would like to know a little bit more about Cynthia Slater, for example. Tell us a little bit about her. Why was she so important? She was so important because she was a creator of the Janus Society and she was strong. She was out there, very well spoken and definitely dominant and a good organizer. And you could not, not know her. Cynthia Slater was Cynthia Slater. There was also others like Pat Califia at the time and Gail Rubin. See, all of these names, Mark Thompson, Pat Califia, Gail Rubin, all these people, we all were part of the same bubble for a while, of the same circle. And Cynthia was lover with the owner of the first Karakor. She was lover with Steve. So you see, she invited Pat to the Karakor and Pat had a party there. And then Mark Joplin invited me because you only could go if you were invited. And it was very protected environment in that you could not just show up, you have to reserve. There was a call list, you had to be invited. And I don't know what else to tell you about it. It was a magical environment. But Cynthia had her feet in all of this, all the aspects. And she was a mistress and a zee mistress. And she was a very well respected mistress. So she also left us to AIDS. And that's what got her. But I had the privilege to know that wonderful woman. You've mentioned the catacombs. For the sake of the audience, would you please explain what they were? I can explain what they were. But I hope that you don't mind my extrapolation. There is a book. This book is called Leather Folk by Mark Thompson. This is the old history of the beginning of the movement. From San Francisco to New York, Gail Rubin wrote the entire piece on the catacomb with details. That book you can get online if you are really interested. It is marvelous to see how everything got created. So the catacomb was not up until everybody. It was a little club, actually Fred called it the club. I didn't go to the first catacomb because I was in a different location. Steve was, Fred Haram's lover died of a heart attack. And the catacomb went silent. It didn't exist for a while. And then Fred reopened it. And he reopened it on Shortwell Street in 1982. And that's where I was invited to. I was welcomed there for a few months for the Saturday night parties, which was actually Gail Wood in the book that my private name is Carla. She would call I was the only woman that did the catacomb. And eventually Fred asked me, I can talk about what I was like in a moment, asked me to not come on Saturday because some patron wanted only mail space. But he said, I will give you my list, which was extremely generous. He gave me his entire list of phone calls because you had to call people and see if they were coming and had to reserve. And he said, call them all and create your own party. And you can also invite whoever else you want to invite. And you can do it on Fridays once a month. So Mark Joplin and I organize our own party. And we called them, what did we call them? The Serpent Mountain for SM Serpent Mountain. So it wasn't the catacomb, but it was in the same location. Now to get back to catacomb. So you had to have reserve. There was a bar area where everybody's nail were being checked. So nobody had un-fisting nail at the time, because at that time we're not using gloves at all. It was just before it's before a hate stroke. And the activity that we're going on there were flogging, spanking, improvisational weird funny stuff. There was a great sense of humor and mainly fisting. And as far as the great sense of humor that Fred had when I attended the catacomb, at midnight they would play the Alleluia chorus, disco version, the handle, Alleluia chorus, and everybody would get whipped if they weren't busy getting fisted. But that's really where I met Ger Ruben and I met Pat, now Patrick Califfia, and other people who may not want their name out, but I know those two their name are really out. About the sense of humor, I remember one specific Saturday night where I was, I got my legs up in the air and Fred was so incredibly charming, all wearing, wearing hats and top harness, came up to me with this pig made of a candle.  I was just laughing and laughing. There was an amazing sense of camaraderie there. And also, for instance, my first fisting was another man who disappeared because of AIDS, he was in a sling, there was nobody playing with him and he saw me and he said, I never forget, he said, hey lady, come on over here, you have small hands. I'm going, I don't know what to do. Don't worry, I'll tell you exactly what to do. And I said, oh, okay. I was adventurous and the sense of connection, you know, it was a place for really intense sensation where some enhancement used for lack of a better world. Yes, our drug were not permitted, but definitely some enhancement were used. And the sense of connection with people was amazing. That is what got me. Another thing is because of, you want to know a little bit more, because of the rape that I had survived when I was in France, to find myself in a sling as a bottom and I would do both. To find myself in a sling at the hand of my boyfriend, Mark, and have other men standing around playing with themselves, watching, going, wow, a woman. There was such a sense of power, there was such a sense of being seen, the sense of there was nothing wrong, there was no shame. It was, it was magical. Tell us about some of the other things you did at that time. You were very involved in the gay letter scene. That was the thing I did. I did see that. Probably should not have done, because there was no stopping me. Such as? There really was no stopping me. Such as, oh, you want three pieces of ID to get into the ambush, which was my favorite letter about. Fine, I'll get three pieces of ID. It didn't occur to me that the three pieces of ID was because I would prefer that no woman be there. But then, you know, I dressed in leather. I was French. I still am French, but I'm American, but I'm French too. And I really think that I kind of played you my favorite.   It was just like one big, and I saw some amazing artists. And that was part of the South Market culture. So, those are things I would do. Other thing I did was because I did bottom, like Fred would frog me, and I actually bottomed to gay men a lot more than to anybody else. I don't think I bottomed to a straight men for like 10 years. Actually, maybe even 15. I don't even think if I really bottomed to a straight men, bisexual, yes. But, okay. So, even though I appeared, even with Farquhar, like I wouldn't consider Farquhar to be straight.  So, that's why I say, well, that's another question you had. So, I'll leave it. But, you know, thing I did, I did after bottoming to gay men and needing to make some money. So, when I know a flugging fear, I have watched, and I watched all of this program in genies, all of Farquhar's years. They were not like program out too. They were more like, this is what I do. And this is how I do it. And if you want to do it, then be aware of this and that. Those were the learning experience. So, I learned a lot from watching thing Farquhar was doing. I learned a lot about all kinds of stuff. And then I went, well, why don't I become a mistress? I can talk straight guys. I would love stopping straight guys. I can do it. And boom, it worked.  I found fascinating. I found fascinating that you were one of the first radical fairies. Please tell the audience what they were. What did they do? Okay, okay. Wait, there was a small issue with the World Radical Fairy on that. I was the first woman invited into Black Leather Wing. Black Leather Wing was the offshoot of the radical fairies, named by Harry, oh, please, named by Harry is, which a lot of people can research was, you know, a gay militant from the start who one day said, hey, we need to welcome our brother with Black Leather Wing. And that's how the name Black Leather Wing became. And this school called Mother with Black Leather Wing, one of them was Mark Thompson, who I had met, who I had actually met at the Catacombe. And if he was another person who was Guenemide, was into piercing and a friend of Mark Schuster. So everything cost over, you see, because we all knew each other. So that's how from the piercing world of the piercing ritual, the beginning of the piercing movement, and the radical fairy, my branch of Guenemide started knowing more where Kinky radical fairy, aka people in Black Leather Wing, who at that moment was a very gay group, which has shifted and is no longer a very gay group. It's more a home for Leather, Kinky, lesbian, genderqueer, trans, so it shifted through the years for many reasons, you know, including AIDS and changes in society. What did the group do? What was their purpose? Have a wonderful time, connect the spirit and the body and the sex and the power of orgasm. There was a certain sense of the spirit that body and spirit connect, and that orgasm and sexuality is a very clear for that, as well as SMM. So ritual experiences through intense ritual of flogging, piercing, fisting, etc. So that's what the group did. And we had a wonderful evening that were organized, and also the respect of others. So there was a sense of spirituality that was definitely not Christian. There was much more weaker oriented, or respect of spirit, per se. Mentoring was a very important part of your world. You've spoken of several people who were mentors to you. Talk with us about mentoring in the gay community, the Leather community. Okay, so here is another piece that is a little bit twisted. Really, the only mentoring was not an organized thing for me, as you take classes, and I'm going to see that you can do this or you can do that. It was much more of a natural process. I became very close friend with Mark Thompson, the guy, wonderful rider, the old gay spirit, gay body, and who is no longer with us, unfortunately, passed away a few years ago in Palm Spring. I think he was really the one that was the most my mentor. We had many conversations. And he also became a very close friend to Farkir. So Mark was my mentor. Farkir was my mentor by the fact of becoming my partner and me participating and then doing with him, expanding and doing working with him in different tribal sort of ritual that we were doing, which we did actually in Europe and all over many places in the state. So this was a kind of mentoring that I was receiving. I could say Fred of the Calico was my mentor by the way they treated me and the way they would joke with me and make me see bigger than myself. But it was not mentoring the way that he got organized letter for people. I hope this is not disappointing you, but that's the fact. Okay. I was maturing by watching being in a relationship with people rather than a set of things that followed the progression. What are your personal feelings on mentoring in the current community? I don't know if I can really answer that question. I think that there is probably some people who are fabulous mentors. I know that Patrick Mircaille who was involved in the mentoring is an amazing master. And I'm sure that the mentoring he did because he moved. I don't know if he's doing it right now. And people like Master Skip, I think those people would be amazing mentors and are if they are doing it in terms of what else I don't know. So I just started to say I don't know. You know like Tony Dublas, Tony Dublas was also an amazing mentor in some ways. But it was such a way of living in the moment and picking things up rather than organizing mentoring. So I really cannot talk about that. That's okay. I don't have enough information. That's fine. Let's come to probably one of the most important parts of this. And that was Fakir Musafar. First, tell us who was he? To me, Fakir Musafar was the man that I met at the chateau. The chateau was, one second please, excuse me. Okay. The chateau was a biliary place in San Francisco where professional mistresses which was very few at the time would see clients. And Fakir was invited there to give a program. And his program were whatever it is that he wanted to share with people. And I remember him standing there. I don't remember if he was wearing leather pants or not. But I remember that he had large little tubes in his nipple, long tubes like this, about that size actually.  And he said, is there any of you want to put their finger through my nipple? Well, of course, I said yes. And I stepped forward and I put my finger through his nipple, like this. And symbolic clay was interesting because we got married, you know, many years after that. I wasn't really attracted to him. But he was fascinating me. I mean, the whole thing was, you know, the first photo of him, I saw he was decked out as a Christmas tree with balls, Christmas balls, sold out for the Janus newsletter. And I never forgot that. So the Janus newsletter is an important piece of the show. Marge-Japrin was helping Fakir do the Janus newsletter. Fakir was quote unquote, in his straight life, an ad executive, not for a newspaper that I would read or magazine, for the budding Silicon Valley industry. So they were industry people, industry ads for the beginning of the old computer thing, right? Because he lived in Palo Alto, where I am right now. So Mark would come and I would do the Janus newsletter. And then Mark wanted me to be his mistress. And I was doing my best to learn to be a mistress. And I knew in your Fakir. And then people started dying. It struck. And it was, you know, this has been, I hope that people will not forget. People will be young and six weeks later they'll be old and then two weeks later they'll be dead. It was amazingly difficult. Grief time. And the part of me, I knew that Fakir was connecting to body is a door to spirit. I knew that because I was one of the thing, that a few things he would say. You know, he really was a teacher. And he would say over and over, no matter, body is a door to spirit. And the only thing is to not want to know. Those were the two things that were his words, that I imprinted my brain forever in my heart. And he, I told Mark, I said, Mark, I want to do a ritual. And the only person that can help with that is Fakir. So can you help me make that happen? And he said yes. And I met with Fakir personally, not as a person watching his shares with the community. And I just say, you know, I want to do, like because I was raised Catholic, I want to do a little road with sticks and photos, polarized photographs of all the people that have just died on one side. And then on the other side on sticks, the photo around sticks, so I can see them. On the other side, I want a photo of the one I'm afraid of losing. And of course, Mark was in that. And Fakir said, sure, I know a place where you can do that. And I said, I want to get pierced so that I can feel all the sensation.  And he said, sure, absolutely.  I know a place to go in the country. I have a car. I have a van.  No problem. And we set up a time and we went up there and I did the first ball dance ever beside the one that he did. And he was honored as could be that somebody would want to tie his stuff.  So the more I would move heavily, the more the ball would eventually fly off. Like, so it was an amazing deliverance. It was just a perfect ritual. And actually I'm writing it in my book. There was a freedom that I had the, the blessing to experience that I just wish others could. And, you know, so I do the ball dance. I'm crying and screaming and running and dancing and jumping. And then the ball are all flying off and Fakir is watching for safety. And Mark is playing the drum. He already had a patch on his eye because there was a disease that he shouldn't wear a patch. He couldn't function. And that was maybe a couple months before he died. And then I'm completely high and the sun is still up in the sky and it's warm. And there's a blanket there. And I should, you know, there's some gloom for whatever reason. And I say, well, you know, I'm completely high and this is my church. And would you fix me right there under the sky? And Fakir stood a few feet away playing the drum. And it was the whole thing was perfectly balanced. It really was church to me. And then I had a connection with Fakir. And then when Mark, I stopped wanting to be, have any physical, sexual connection with Mark. And eventually, and he was okay with that because I was too afraid of getting AIDS, any of which I was so blessed, I didn't. And then eventually I just said to Mark, you know, I really would like to date Fakir. Is that okay? And he said, sure, you know, I would be delighted. And unfortunately he died in 89 before, before my engagement to Fakir, married me in 1990. You and Fakir did a lot of work together. And then you've done a lot of work on your own. Tell us about a few of the things that you taught. Am I making those noise or this noise in the computer? Am I the one making them? No. I don't hear anything. You don't hear Oh God, I hear kakakakak in my ears. Oh it's healing. As long as you don't hear it, we're good. Let's start that question again, so we can edit. Please, please. You and Fakir did a lot of work together, a lot of education. Tell us a few of the classes you taught. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, for me there was a progression. I started to be asked to teach in San Francisco my own classes. And I developed, I would develop subjects like, you know, the magic of flogging, taking somebody, letting your beast out. I would develop your subject and work on them and present them with demo. And that's how I started my teaching. And because there wasn't that many women doing that, I was really, very popular. Like Stormy Leather, their shop would ask me to teach. And House of Differences, which was a King here, BNB, who asked me to teach. And then the Letter of Conferences would ask me to teach. NLA, you know, Honor and Living in Leather, and all of this stuff. And then when I got together with Fakir, he knew that I could do public speaking and health. And he was very interested in how we could work together. And his take on it was ritual work, doing, presenting thing from a ritual standpoint with, and community works, things that, so we did a whole lot of work with the safety of piercing, breathing, being present, and traveled with all these things, and brought it to different community. And the main thing that we did over and over was energy pool with needles. So pulling a needle at the heart chakra, we did a lot of working with the chakra system. And then with hooks. And then we started bringing that to different Leather Conferences, like Thunder and the Mountain, or people in Europe, or the trip in Europe was like amazing. Also in Arizona, and that became taken by the apex of the power exchange in Arizona. It became the Dance of Soul. So those were things that we did, or I would help him with also subjecting one in the present, and then present my own as well, working with archetypes. So it became a big array of different things that I was comfortable with at the time. I was getting a little afraid when I would get started, but I would own my own material, and my main focus on everything was respect and presence, to be present, to watch the energy. So when I talk about bodies and of the spirit, which I really believe for myself, I think Donald's ritual is really about energy, our energy work. And I would do the funniest thing I tell people, if I was not into energy, then I would just as well flog my desk, because it doesn't give any energy back. What I want is to be in the loop, send the energy and have it come back, back and forth. So that's the kind of work that we did together, to do with energy and community. And if I was a very loving person, because he had tremendously intense out of body experiences when he was young, and there's a lot of stuff on you, you know what, maybe I should talk, can we cut his diving nuts and noise in there? Cut for a second. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Can you hear me? Yes. Can you hear me? I hear you. Okay, so let's start. So we have two devices. Let me put them away. I can hear you on the computer. Okay. I don't know what, well, should I put them far away? I think I have to put them far away. Yeah, I don't know. I'm sorry, I was making a lot of noise in my ears. No problem. Okay, go ahead. You mentioned that Fakir had out of body experiences when he was young. But he was very young. Actually, all that stuff is on YouTube, if people are looking at he had one when he was in his teenage living at his parents in South Dakota. He lived near an American Indian reservation. So he was inspired by that culture. He really liked the American Indian a lot more than the white people. And he tied himself up to the basement. Actually, he went there and actually saw the mark from the staple and hooked himself up in a way that he could not get free. And his parents were gone for three days. And he had done all kind of preparation. And he actually had out of body experience. And he described it. He described it exactly that he saw the cats walking around. He saw the town being quiet. He looked at his body from a distance. He was amazed like this. So he had a two OB. And then he went, he doesn't even know he managed to free himself. In his book, The Spirit Plus Fresh, there's an all explanation of that. I shouldn't be telling you about the book because there's only a very few left. But it's his art book, big book, Spirit Plus Fresh. He, and then he was an amount of the Sundance and the Okipa, which he learned about when he was a teenager in South Dakota. So he experienced that suspension by hooks. And he tied it at first with piano wire. There was no hooks. And eventually he had another amazing body experience, which was recording the film, Dancy's Secret and Profane, which is online, where he heard a voice that I tell him, he said it was the biggest love you have ever felt. It was an incredible love, so deep, so, so brilliant.  So you have to go back down. That's recorded with Jim Ward. This Okipa was done with Jim Ward in 1982. And the film is called Dancy's Secret and Profane. And it is online. And also Paul King of the APB has copies of it. I have a few copies. Somebody absolutely wants one. So, so because of that, his heart was blasted up. It's like he loved everybody. You know, he really did. And community matters so much to it. Of course, when he was not very happy, when he couldn't deal with his computer, and he would get very upset, and he'd be screaming and cursing like a maniac. Then he wasn't, you know, the whole loving person. But that has to do with his computer. A movie that's being made about him. Tell us about that. Well, I contacted the person who is doing it and asked permission because it is at the very beginning of it. And the film is called A Body to Live In. It just started. And it is not going to be a documentary like Ken Burns. It's going to be an art film. And the filmmaker who is making it, his name is Angelo Matson Minax. He's a trans man, who has just been recognized for his movie or PBS boat, and he got all kind of awards. So, Angelo Matson Minax is working on this art film for Fakir called A Body to Live In. We think probably, I hope you'll be done within a year.  They're just like, wait, you'll see it probably comes out, okay? You'll see, I said, can I tell them for the LAM? He said, yes, the cat's out of the back. Go ahead, you can tell them. So, I had permission. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Oh, me too. I can wait. So, is there something else that... Well, I'm wondering, what advice you can offer people who are new to the scene? Be true to yourself. If you have fear, I hope that your fear is not about being shamed, because there is no shame about your fantasies.  And also, learn from your elder, basically, is that join your community. Be in community, because that's where the real learning is. So, you're not isolated.  Any big city in America has led an event. Unfortunately, we're coming out of COVID, so it's going to happen again. Go to conferences, let our conferences, watch the people that have presented those conferences. Pay attention to your reaction. There are things you might see that you might say, uh-uh, not for me. Respect that. It's not everything is for you. See what resonates with you.  That's pretty much, um, yeah, how I would do it. You know, I was teaching a class for, I did it for 18 years. I think so. Wow. A three-day class and then a weekend course for erotic dominance. And when COVID came, I decided, no, not with screen. This is, this stuff is not for screens. It's for feeling the energy, the real interaction. And then, of course, we also sit there right in the class, right? So, okay, it's a different piece of my life now. I like my book. I'm not going to teach so we can intensive anymore. I will still do ritual. I love to do ritual work in my dungeon, um, which my dungeon was my wedding present. Can you imagine? How wonderful. It was, and it's so beautiful in there. You know, we're on a computer, so I cannot give you a little tour because I'm not on a laptop, but it's warm and, and the equipment, I love it. So, working with scouples, yes, I want to keep doing that. People that are trying to increase their intimacy or the quality of their play or start again because something bad happened and say, no, no, we're not doing that anymore. So that, that is something I am into doing besides writing my book and hoping to get a publisher. Um, tell us a little bit about your book. Well, my book is very much about what we just did here is to, to show how coming from a place of being put down, misunderstood abuse, having the courage to, all the folly is away.  Like, you know, my sister are born again Christian. Let's say that spending time together is not going to be happening because, you know, they want to pay for my soul and they want me to repent. But, you know, I still love them and it's too bad I kind of lost them that way that happened to Fakir and his father as well. So they, but to keeping integrity with what is diving in us, what is a journey that we, we need to go on to find out what is our life about? Why are we here? No, no, it's just, you know, with what's going on in this country. It's so difficult. I mean, I came here to escape to have all of the the horrible party because that are happening now. So staying focused on, on our work. But my book is really about trying to inspire people. And also there are a piece of history that is gone, but it was here in San Francisco.  So that's what it is. I can't wait to read it. I look forward to it. Oh, that's sweet. Thank you. Well, I have to finish it first and finally a published show. So I hope that, I hope that we didn't forget anything that's of importance. I don't think so, but no, I love NAM. You know, Fakir has his, he has his own exhibit there and I still have some stuff I want to give NAM and, and yeah, Chicago, we're very well received and I love going to that beautiful building and. Yep, the Leather Archives and Museum. That's right. Yes, seeing that the history is being preserved. You know, to archive our history is really important. Absolutely. And our stories and thank you for giving me the honor and the pleasure to speak with you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I've had an absolute, this has been fascinating and I'm so grateful to you. Well, true to you as well. Thank you. I can't believe I'm able to see that on YouTube sometime. But Clio Dubois, thank you very much for participating in Inside Leather History of Fireside Chat. And thank you so very much for joining the chat and doing such a wonderful job and being so welcoming. Thank you. Thank you.


This speech that she's using is typically seen in trendy 20-somethings like whatever vocal fry up top These on their own don't show us much but when you process this fully you realize she's not a 20-something She's give or take 46 in this clip She tells us more about her behavior than most people will see as an interviewer seeing a 40-something Use these trendy vocal behaviors This tells us that she's vulnerable to social influence from popular young women online as an interviewer. This lets me know She's strongly driven by social reward. This also means that she's strongly driven by the fear of social consequences of her actions I now know that this will be the most powerful reason for her not to be honest in an interview with me Because of this fear is going to be governing a lot of that It's also the most powerful avenue that I can take when influencing her getting her to confess


What's up everybody Jason here from jazby's case breaks calm We just sold out 20 21 panini contenders draft picks basketball. This is a one box break random pack number 17 Now Nick has already posted up number 18 So that's why I'm starting off this video showing you the title at number 17 So don't worry about that top title part. This is number 17 Number six total spots. We open up the box. We're number the packs one through six Now we'll randomize all six cousin remains in the pack numbers whatever number you pack number you match up with is what pack We open life for you and every pack has an autograph on average So let's quickly open up Quickly open up a box here, and it looks like it says RP for random packs or just random boxes too as well It's number these really quick here. It should be one Two Three four five Six There's the pack numbers All right Now let's quickly randomize the customer names Five and a five ten times and the pack numbers. Good luck one two three four five six seven eight nine ten Brandon Dona Debra one Two three four five six seven eight nine ten Six down to three All right, so Cory you have one Oliver with two Debra with three Brandon with four Chad with five and Brandon with six As you can see I can go backwards. You guys can see that. I just alphabetized it Stayed the same Coolio All right guys. Well, let's rip open the packets now It doesn't matter no one's touching them, but no one touched them. Actually, let me quickly print out this labels to All right, so first pack Cory Got the bar to Rosen John wall and J scrub your prospect James little James Wiseman cards I'm and thank you Number two Oliver. We got Braxton key There you go, man. Thank you Oliver Hi Debra, you're up next Three I Camel Walker John Morant and Devin Dotson All right, so Brandon actually let's just skip your number four And then we'll do four and six for you Last and then Chad will go with you. It's five. So four and six Chad you have five So there you go, man. Good luck and Brandon Robinson Out of ten two out of ten finals take it. There you go, man All right, thank you Chad and Brandon you have six and four Six and four. Good luck man See Jim McCollum shake you'll just Alexander and Isaiah Moss Is your first auto from your first pack and pack six? Hopefully there's an on card in here. They're not guaranteed per box, but you would assume there is one Well, first big a little crack dice to 23 DeMar DeRozan and Jalen Smith You did crack dice for the 23 prospect ticket DeMar DeRozan All right, and there you go guys that was 1920 contender draft fixed basketball one box random pack number 17 again number 18s in the store Appreciate you guys Jaspies case breaks.com


As we go to the finale of this summit, what better high note to end on than a fireside chat with someone who is a CEO and MD, one of the best known brands in our country. Please put your hands together to welcome Mr. Rahul Agarwal, CEO and MD, Lenovo, India. We also have the moderator for this fireside chat who will be joining us very soon, Ms. Suta Agarwal, VP and GM of InMobi India. Very soon in the next couple of minutes, we are all set to start this conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together to welcome our speakers. Okay, thanks for sticking around and being the patient audience. I know it's always tough coming in last of a long, long session. So we will try to keep it crisp, we will try to keep it interesting for you guys and we have 30 minutes but what we will try to do is do the discussion for about 15 and then open it up for questions for about 5, 10 minutes. So I would like to welcome Rahul Agarwal, CEO and MD of Lenovo, India. In his past tense, Rahul has led the commercial business for Lenovo, South Asia, headed the marketing communication for Lenovo globally and played the CMO role for Lenovo, India. So Rahul, given we have about 15, 20 minutes to engage this very patient audience, I think let's just dive right into it. We'll ease you into the questions since you're on the hot seat. So today's agenda and the theme for the enclave has been making brands purposeful. And what we'll try to cover through Rahul's journey and experiences is why do brands really need a purpose, right? How do they preserve or drive that purpose? And how the changing consumer behavior and in the previous sessions, everyone talked a lot about different kinds of millennial audiences, different kind of consumer experiences. So how does this changing consumer behavior really impact the purpose of a brand? Yeah, good evening, everyone. And I don't know if the organizers are trying to save the alcohol. Because it's 8.30 and I'm assuming they haven't opened the bar. Because many people have walked out, so maybe the bar is open. But I believe this event is happening in South for the first time. And in Bangalore, usually at 8 PM, people don't sit in a closed room and listen to supposedly intelligent conversation. So maybe it's a learning. Friday evening. And that's a Friday evening. So Vasuta and I, and by the way, let me clarify, we're not related. But it's good to see that there is life beyond the Buncells. I think we're all sick and tired of the number of Buncells. And Buncells are actually quite close to Agarwal. If you go back to the tree. But I'm happy to have another Agarwal here. And we were talking and we said that, look, let's try and take it really quick. Let's not take advantage of the people who've been patient. I think the smart ones have already walked out. So let us not be rude to people who are polite to us. So we will be very fast. And in case there are questions, we can take it up. But my request would be that we'll end it formally and then maybe over a couple of drinks, we can have conversations. So I hope that sounds reasonable. Okay? Okay, great. So Raul, let's I think start with the first question on, often, brands of course have a top line and a bottom line goal, right? And there is huge competitive pressure. So given these commercial goals that every brand has to meet, why does a brand need to have a purpose at all, right? What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, so that's a very fundamental question, not just for organizations, but for individuals as well. And I want to share a bit of WIP research that I've been doing for quite some time on this elusive subject called happiness. When you cross 40, you start getting bothered by vague things. And I started wondering, like many it hits, I think most of us, at a different stage of our life, what leads to happiness. So I've done a bit of reading and a bit of thinking. And when I read people who are knowledgeable about it, who've done research, a few things come out consistently what leads to happiness. One of them is good relationships, second is good health. And third is meaning or purpose in life. Doing something meaningful or purposeful in life adds immensely to the happiness, right? And I'm sure many of us relate to that when we hear it. It doesn't come to us on our own, it didn't come to me on its own. Now, similarly, I believe that organizations also need to have a purpose, have a goal. Now, it's given that every organization will survive only if there is bottom line. And there will be bottom line only if there is top line. So I think that's a given. But times have proven and shown and demonstrated that organizations which have a clear purpose, they are good at creating a differentiation, which is a key for a sustainable survival of an organization. It's so difficult to create a differentiated proposition and a differentiated offering. And you can do that only if you are really focused, do not get distracted by what happens around you. That comes from purpose. Number two and most important is for an organization to be successful, it needs to have engaged and excited and motivated employees. And people love to work for organizations which have a purpose. All of us, most of us are employees here, including you and me. And I think what gives us joy is to not just get a salary at the end of the day or to build profit for the organization, but actually to look for a larger cause. And that cause doesn't have to be a social cause, but it could be, let's say, Google's purpose in life is to organize the information in the world, right? That's a very, very powerful purpose. Thirdly, if you, every 25 years people say, hey, if you look at the number of Fortune Fiber and companies, what were they 25 years ago and what we have today, there's a huge decay that happens. And again, one thing that comes out is that organizations which are focused, which have a purpose, which have been true to the true purpose, are the ones who have a better probability of surviving. So I think it's extremely important not to just have a routine mission and a vision of your organization, but to truly believe in our purpose to get the whole organization to be galvanized with it, to have the shareholders and street to sign up for it because they are the people who will pull the rug under you when times are tough. So, I mean, given you have played so many different roles at Lenovo itself, right? In the context of your Lenovo journey, how have you seen Lenovo and in your individual capacity also preserve that brand purpose, right? How do you continue to strive towards it and drive it, given the sort of the day-to-day pressures of doing the job or hitting a business goal? Yeah, good news. You mentioned about me doing different roles. So just a quick show of, and how many of you are related to marketing? It's about 60%. Yeah, so I've done business roles and I've done marketing roles.  So yes, I think I've had a, you know, I was fortunate enough to get different perspectives by doing different roles and perspective changes, you know, it's an honest admission that things change as per your convenience. But when I stepped into the role that I stepped in, I think that's when things really hit me, even though I've been around for almost 17 years in this company, that, look, do we have a real purpose? And Lenovo is a relatively new company, right? Relatively new company, which is good and bad because when companies are new, that is when they have clarity of thought and clarity of purpose and when the beton gets transferred from the founders to the next set of professional folks, that is when things get diluted. So we have been in a bit of a flux, right? So when the PCs were exploding, our purpose clearly was to be number one. We were obsessed to be number one. I don't think about 15, 20 years ago we were really clear about the purpose or even 10 years ago. But I think as the industry started evolving as, smartphones came along, tablets came along, and we saw different kind of movements really attacking to the core of what we do. The organization went for our soul searching mission and they said that, look, I think, whether it's PC or phone or tablet or some other device, we want to really change, improve people's life in a surprising way through technology. And of course there's a clear kind of connotation with devices, right? So that's how we define ourselves, which is why we are the only company, by the way, which had the courage to get into phones, had the courage to get into upper end of servers, into tablets, and now the company is investing aggressively into AR, VR products, IoT products. But everything is to do with devices, technology, and improving their life. I still personally feel it's rather broad, but I think things are changing so dramatically that organization probably does not want to go more narrow. No, I think it's very interesting because since you bring in the element of technology, I think switching gears a little bit in this age of connected devices, digital playing such a big role in the lives of consumers, right? How do you find, how difficult or easy is it now, right? Versus maybe a decade back, to really engage with consumers, right? How have you seen that change in your time at Lenovo? I think given your role and the organization that you work for, I definitely think that you will be able to add more meat to it. So I'll give my little bit, and then I think you should, when Lenovo came into India, I was a marketing head, and so I lived that life. There was no social media, which was again good and bad, because everything in life has good and bad, right?  Now, with the technology, with the social media available on everyone's fingerprint, with the power of word of mouth because of the social networks, because of the audience becoming younger and more knowledgeable and more research oriented, I think we are able to understand our customers better. Customers get the comfort that they are able to reach out to us. But as the panel before us discussed, it can also be used as a medium for something, for a small thing, to snowball into something uncontrollable, right? So it's a great thing. I think every authentic brand should celebrate the advent of technology, because if you're authentic, then you would not mind opening a channel with your individual consumers, however small they are. But I think you've got to be on your toes, you've got to be careful on how you leverage it. So why don't you add your orbit? I know you have almost 300 plus clients in India, including Lenovo. So how are you seeing this medium being used? So I think digital and especially mobile now, as a platform, it really places the power in the hands of the consumer, right? I think the previous panel discussed it, and like you're saying, it has its pros and cons, right? For the brand, it puts a lot more pressure now to drive trust, drive authenticity, drive transparency with the consumer, right? So it puts that kind of accountability on the brand. But then the technology and the device also gives the channel to do that, right? Because now you have the power to reach the consumer at a very personalized level, at an individual level, to drive that brand purpose or brand message or that authenticity that you're looking at, right? So I think in a way, like you said, if the brand is genuinely transparent and authentic about their purpose, it's a great medium, right? Mobile and digital to have to reach consumers because it gives you the channel, which earlier probably you didn't have at that very personalized level that you do today. Right, and also I remember in those days, if you wanted to do a quick market research, there was no quick market research. There would at least be a turnaround time of eight weeks. Today you can do research in 48 hours because you have people available who can immediately respond to you. There is an internet bias, yes, you got to nullify that. But I think the speed of you getting to know what's going on has also improved because of this. No, absolutely. So I think keeping in mind the time and people waiting to get out to the food and drinks, what would be maybe two or three thoughts that you would like to leave with the audience before we wrap up? I guess I'll come to the core subject, which is the purpose. I think I spoke about why do organizations need to have a purpose. It seems quite logical. Why should you not have a purpose as an organization? But it's as intuitive and logical as the fact that all of us as individuals should have a deep meaning in what we are doing. But hand to our heart, how many of us can actually say that? That what we are doing has a deep meaning. A lot of us are going through the motions. A lot of us are going through the motions and a lot of organizations are at the end of it, just going for top line and bottom line. So I think it's important for very obvious reasons that you need to have a purpose. But you've got to work towards it. You won't just get it. And it's not something that you just define once in a year or once in five years and just put it on a wall as mission and vision. You've got to live it, you've got to really show to the world that you will stand true to it. But the most important question is how do you preserve the purpose? And we've seen many organizations in India, right? Not gonna name, but think of a large software company where when the promoters leave, then there is a vacuum and then the new management, you know, everyone wants to add value, right? When you start a new job, you want to add value. And therein lies the pitfall of the original purpose and mission losing its direction, right? Now there's nothing necessarily bad about it because sometimes you have to evolve. But if you take a conscious call of evolving and changing the direction, we know of a handset provider who should have changed the direction, right? You know of, that's a Kodak, I can probably name that, right? Which they should have changed the direction when they didn't. But when it gets lost in translation because of management changes and because of the fact that you are now listed on the street and there is pressure from analysts to give quarterly performance, you got to have a process and a few principles to preserve your purpose. And in my opinion, that single thread that can do that is the culture. If your purpose gets embedded deeply into the culture, which means it gets embedded in the way the organization thinks, the way organization and people behave with each other, the way they take decisions, when there are tough choices to make, the culture will usually guide you what to do. So if that is deeply embedded, then I think there is a higher probability of the purpose continuing and the brand surviving for a longer period. I probably, that's one thought that I'd like to leave. Great. So thank you so much, Rahul, for that. I don't know if we have time for questions or if you would like to take those, maybe two. Well, we have, I see 30 minutes left here and you say only two questions. The other group was 10 minutes late and you gave them three questions. You know, I don't blame you. If you're nice people take, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Six minutes per answer. You got me there, okay, all right. We've got two questions and you know, she's promising that people will come to me when I'm having drinks, right? I'm not responsible for what I say. There are people in this room who know me and they know what I mean. All right, so yeah, if, you know, can I say something, if you've asked questions, you know, in the last round give others a chance. And if others don't want a chance, then we'll come back to you. We don't want closure without questions. Hey, Rahul, Shashank here. I'm here, I'm here. Yeah, hi. So I'm from Vyoma Media. I have a question to you. So Lenovo as a brand in previously has a mindset it's, it belonged to computers, right? Or PCs or laptop. When it suddenly shifted to mobile phones, how did, was it easy to change the mindset of consumer as well or what steps did you take? It was surprisingly easy. I think there is this whole science of brand extension. People wondered whether Kingfisher Airlines is a smart brand extension from a beer brand. I thought I would, you know, I don't know where summer as you left and probably having Kingfisher outside. I thought I'll never fly Kingfisher Airlines, right? But they were able to actually build into a premium brand. So if you look at some examples of brand extensions, what comes out, and this is my own belief that there are no hard and fast rules, really. It depends on a lot of things, but a lot of it depends on your offering. If you have an authentic offering, if you can satisfy the need of the customers in a good way, people will accept your brand. When we launched phones, we launched in the 5,000 to 10,000 category, a phone that was easily available by and large online at a good price with good features, which is what, by the way, Xiaomi is doing, right? I think we heard him eloquently saying that, look, there are no secret sources, just do the basics. So I know this has bothered me because after Kingfisher, to be honest, I wasn't clear about the theory that I think many of us have learned in B schools about brand extensions. If there are, if Mercedes starts selling, I don't know, low price footwear, that that's probably an issue. So brand extension has to have two points. The products should be related, though again, beer and airlines don't. But I think in terms of the positioning of the brand, if something is premium, then a brand extension, which is in the same, same, same band, will be an easier brand extension. But net net, there are no hard and fast rules and Lenovo actually didn't have a problem at all. Yes, Ganga here.  I have the power. You have the power. I give you the power. Thanks, Rahul. My question is how easy or difficult is it to separate the purpose of a brand as a brand custodian from what the brand should stand for versus what you as a person might believe in? Or do they, to me, do they end up converging? So you're saying that you as an individual, then who's you here? So the brand custodian, right? As a human being, we believe we have purposes also in life. How easy or difficult is it to separate that from the purpose that you're building for a brand? Yes, so it's important, right? Which is why while hiring, the cultural fit is very important, right? If, I don't know, I think it's nine o'clock, so I'm just thinking about alcohol. But if you think about an alcohol brand, right? And if the marketing head is a tea toddler and believes that drinking is bad, which my mother-in-law and father-in-law do believe, right? I think there is a misfit, right? And then the person will not be able to stand the brand. Similarly, I've realized that if you look at the marketing folks of super premium brands, right? They look like people who could afford those things, which is why I never got one of those jobs, right? So I think organizations are smart enough to know that, look, you've got to have a brand fit in the individual. But it's a challenge, right? There are brands with hundreds of thousands of employees in more than 100 countries and people are different in different moods. Does every individual always stand to the true values of the brand all the time? No, it does not. But I guess strong brands survive because they become so strong that they can accept these minor variations over a period of time. And which is that very few brands become big in the first place because to get everyone in the organization to talk the same language all the time is tough. I think maybe Vasudha, you could add because in Mobi, I mean, remarkable, remarkable success, but it's still the first unicorn from India. And you've been at Unicorn for almost, you've been at Mobi for about five years, right? Maybe you can share your experience as to how are you building one brand? Yeah, so I think just to add to his point, I think in the early stages of, because we are just 10 years old now and I've been for about five and a half of those. So I think in the early stages of an organization or a company as you're trying to build a brand, the first set of employees, or you could say the first 100 or 150, probably associate with that brand purpose a lot more because the success of the brand and the story of the brand is built on the power of those people. I think as he said, as it expands to hundreds and then thousands and then tens of thousands, probably that brand purpose does dilute a little bit as that goes bigger and larger and global and so on. But yeah, I think that's probably what good brands do is to keep that flexibility, allow for that variation, but still hold to their brand purpose. By the way, thank you for closing the bar. I see that many people have come back, so thank you. Makes us feel good. Hi Rahul. Hi. Hi. So this is Deepi. I'm the head of marketing from Suze. And we work very closely with Fujitsu globally. So I have a question. Recently, you had a joint venture with Fujitsu laptops. So how do you see this is gonna impact your brand? You know, the Lenovo brand in India, so. Unfortunately, it will not affect at all because Fujitsu doesn't sell laptops in India. So I don't get any benefit and I'm pretty sad about it, but Japan, Germany and Australia are three large markets for Fujitsu and I think there immediately, we will get a bump, especially in Japan because Japan as a nation, the culture is very patriotic, unlike India. And they believe that buying their own technology brand is the best thing to do. Which is why Lenovo bought NEC about six years ago and we became the number one brand in Japan, not by being Lenovo, but by being Lenovo plus NEC. And now we are Lenovo plus NEC plus Fujitsu. But thanks for empathizing with me because unfortunately, you know, there is no bump into my revenues. Thank you so much, Rahul. Rahul Mukund here.  What are the signs that you need to look for as a businessman to say, hey, you know what, this is fading. I mean, apart from the declining revenue figures, because declining the revenue figures, you will notice only two, three quarters, but what are the trends that you notice to say, hey, this is approaching sunset? Because it's easy to say it in the retrospect, right? How do you kind of keep looking for it? Yeah, so I don't know whether anyone of us is qualified enough to answer that. We had very capable executives, very senior capable executives in all these organizations which are no more prominent. And they just refuse to see reality. To me, it comes to the culture of the organization. If you have an open culture, if you have a process of reading the market, forcing yourself to reconsider your positioning, your strategy, then I think people have less of a risk of being stuck to their history. Organizations fail because people, and organizations become arrogant.  Now, I don't know whether I'll be able to see if I'm a part of an organization, because when it hits you, it hits you, right? I don't know if you have anything to add to this, but to me, it's the culture of the organization. Organizations who are rumble, who are grounded, who are listening to the customers, will rarely go out of business. And you see too many organizations today reinventing themselves so fast to listen to their customers. You? Future of PCs I think is outside the scope of this discussion today. And it's also outside the scope of what I should be talking about, right? So maybe after five drinks. RAHUL, you gave me the power to actually say stop, but then I had a question to ask and the mic never came to me. I had to come to the podium, but I just had one question. I hope that's anchor privilege. You call yourself a slave to fitness? At least your Twitter account does? Yeah. Is that the truth though, first of all?   So I made that mistake, which I'm hoping to correct next year.  Yeah, I think spiritualism is a quest, right? At any point of time, you are three or four or five percent on where you could. So I think nobody at least, I can't claim that I've got it, but you got to go on the path. And as you cross 40, I think a lot of things, these happen. I know this is a heavy subject and people are dying to hit the bar. And I think the number of times you've said this, I don't know what the people, but you certainly seem to want to. And I was hoping you'll get the message and put something here, but, you know, and I tried this and it's actually Kingfisher water. People don't take the hint, do they? But please, ladies and gentlemen, let's give it up for Rahul Agarwal. I'd like to invite Amit Gupta to give away. My mentor is apparently you know more about him than many others do. There is a amendment to waiting to be given. Whether they gave you other liquid or not by the token of gratitude on behalf of Sneha and the entire team who worked to put this together, we request you to give away the... Mr. Nawal Ahuja, if you're here, then it's your turn to propose a vote of thanks. You're meanwhile to vote Vasudayam. I have to do the most hated job, which is stay here between people and their drinks, but I'll be quick. Thank you, thank you for doing this. Thank you to all the speakers. And, you know, one thing that I'm going away with is the fact that most brands need purpose and, you know, Rahul was talking about brand extension and the CEO of ITC Foods was here speaking first up in the afternoon. And while he was on stage, I was wondering, you know, when you look at a company like ITC, did any of those ever go to a B school? Look at the kind of brand extensions that they've done.  But fantastic sessions today. Thank you, Rahul, for ending the day on a very high note. Thank you, especially Shashi and Srinni for flying down out of their busy schedules to be here in Bangalore. I think the standout story for me was Amul, you know, which personifies brand purpose. One of the oldest brands in India. And like Shashi shared today, I didn't know Amul has sales of 38,000 crores in a year in India. That is mind-boggling. I did not know that. I must confess. I think two people in the audience knew about that. And a company that has kept its advertising partners for the last 25 years intact. The only client that pays 15% advertising commission, I wish there were a lot many more clients like that in this country. So with that, thank you all for being here. Thank you for lovely sessions to all the speakers. Thank you to all our partners, sponsors, Deccan, Harold, Aisha, Net, Amit and your team. Colors, some of the colors team members are here. Malayalam and Urma Online. Thank you for being part of this event. And as we mentioned at the start, exchange for media conclave is an event we've done here after almost seven years. And we plan to be here every year. So look forward to meeting you next year. Before I go, one last plug for an event that we have coming up. Some of you travel to Delhi often. On Thursday, we have our largest marketing event in Delhi called the Indian Marketing Award. So if any of you plan to travel to Delhi next week, do look out for the calendar and the list of activities. And 11th December is the impact person of the year in Bombay. So anybody planning to be in Bombay soon, we look forward to hosting you there. Thank you and enjoy yourself at the bar.


Everybody forced here ripping 2022 IMAC UFC hobby five bucks hasten for three random card style We'll type in the hits as we go. We'll do the random at the very end to see who's getting what here. Good luck Everybody random card 30 spots 30 cards Last eight-time case there are two more tonight cases four and five with Sam With Sam and Donnie, maybe they'll get a UFC match tonight What are their names gonna be What it is Joe Sam Sam Shiesty, yeah, Sam burrow Sam burrow and Donnie McNabb, mr. Bang The tiger, that's what we'll call him. Good luck everybody See some monsters here my his car to start Rookie Patty Pimbalet number 15 to 25. I don't think he has autos in this so Patty Yeah, he only has canvas relics and base. That's a that's one of the nicer patties. You can get in the set Good stuff. Good base prela to start us off Maddie I get fix these Jumborellic Michael Chandler 98 of 99. Yeah, I wanted to double check I didn't want to say he didn't have autos and like I missed something had a double check Yeah, he just has canvas and he has the base Michael Chandler Jumborellic 98 of 99 hold on. I feel like three of these so far Chandler Jumbos Look at this Jumbo Jersey Jessica Andrade three of five something.com Until I don't know which one which comment there's a lot of those three of five Jersey Jessica Andrade Next one's nice next up Three of three prime patch auto Rob font Love the prime patches in this prime relic prime patch. I'm she called patch All-encompassing Rob font relic auto three of three that is now is not an auto that first one Rookie auto is Adrian Yanez 91 of 99 Adrian Yanez rookie auto 91 of 99 Shadow box the no shadow box, although it says shadow box All auto Mad Hues and BJ Penn 10 of 25 really awesome dual auto Some great duals in this set Got me big chases in this 10 of 25 Mad Hues BJ Penn dual auto. That's awesome man. Love me Strobex You Got rookie Sean Brady Sean Brady 5 of 25 Diddy Mike that is that sounds ridiculous. I didn't I didn't know that Relic card rookie Alex Marono 14 of 99 Alex Marono rookie relic 14 of 99 and mckelparrera 1949 canvas Miquel Parrera Canvas Next up marks of greatness is Irene Aldana 3 of 99 Marks of greatness Irene a as she signs Al 3 of 99 there Oz pretty cool legends auto for shot Evans 27 of 99 shot Evans Good stuff. We got some nice cards so far in this one another nice card here redemption Immaculate celebrations Anderson Silva Immaculate celebrations redemption Anderson Silva. Does it say fight? I imagine it is I imagine I'm just from some That's cool, I would imagine them. Yes, what's cool. They say I don't think all the UFC products will say what it's from or like the WWE products will say like what it's from But I mean like even like the canvases they won't always say I don't think so it's cool This hasn't as well. Yeah spider. Just a general spider this time not tarantula just general Kailin shakage in 34 or 49. There's a tough North American name Kailin shakage shakage in 34 or 49 She's for sure from like Minnesota like Manitoba or something Sounds like a name you'd find in the movie Fargo another base parallel Extra numbered card. Yeah, it is. It's Amanda Nunez 9 to 49 Or no, no, we're just missing. It was just the extra base parallel instead of a relic But it's Amanda Nunez 9 to 49 Strange we're gonna have three autos still to Robert Whitaker relic 14 to 14 UFC fight night Whitaker versus gas some of them will say When they were warned fighter warn Whitaker versus Gaston. That's cool. Some of them will say A lot of the canvases are saying it too So if you guys want like details on relics if you get a relic card a lot of them will say Might not be like the shorts, but it could be something they wore that night to the ring Relic auto Jessica Andrade 75 out of 99. Yeah, this one just says guaranteed on this relic Jessica Andrade relic auto 75 out of 99 Matt Hughes introductions auto 14 of 99 Matt Hughes auto 14 of 99 Wow This is the first moments we've pulled I believe it is moments auto Amanda Nunez 17 of 49 What a fantastic looking card great auto too. Good luck on this one everybody Moments Amanda Nunez 17 of 49 becomes double champ December 2018 I want to see more moments. I want to see more of the celebrations. Those are the best looking cards in this set for sure Matt Magaroni Little Matt little Magorino I guess yeah, we'll be behind going into series one. We'll we'll do we'll have to hustle for some series one But hustle the rest of the day anyway You got sapphire breaks too Sean's favorite Put him through it today. I'll tell you that Rafael dosan host 6 of 25 Rafael dosan host 6 of 25 How's learning a lot over here I was gonna say honestly Got canvas relic Chris docus 3 of 35 Dude last case had Habib and iceman Not on the same card, but It wouldn't make sense That's kind of cool. Whether it makes sense or not. I want to see this. No, but it was like legends both on card like Boxes apart a lot of do a lot of things for school too shadow box auto is Pedro Munoz 60 of 99 Also, the shadow boxes are not shadow boxes. They're just it looks like a shadow box Right. It looks like here Galaxy is gonna be in stock again as an expert bit boy. Oh guys. We're getting more star with galaxy in stock soon too Next is we have an auto before the relic. That's weird. Uh, robert wittaker 42 of 99 Oh, of course best friend out of order, but you got the we got it all robert wittaker 42 of 99 relic How you doing john? I'm good sort of You gotta tell me he's like no, no, I'm good. I trust me. I'll I'll flag you down if I need it. What's the last one you got? I'm doing right now. Uh, robert robert wittaker Did you get the Munoz? Yeah I should be dead on The spelling might not be dead on until he fixes it, but he's got he got you covered No, I mean, where's the Munoz on here right here? Moments auto 17 or 49 a man. I'm doing is No, Munoz Maybe not Okay, so is this that's the one that's this now you just did that before the force That card came before just type it down. Just doesn't have to be in a ways now. All right, so put them in now. Okay I was saying I know I was I was money Top series one random team number one is breaking next If you're looking for a matt's baseball breaks, it'd be on the baseball channel There's a link for the baseball channel. But yeah, no number one breaks next I didn't see who this was Oh, nice donald seroni celebrations auto 37 to 75 Cowboy, you'd think if he's celebrating he would have this cowboy hat This looks like it looks like he just won That's awesome and donald seroni 37 to 75 that's that's going into mag. Oh, that's pretty cool How they knows all the fun facts We've got memorabilia autograph of charles olyvera. He signed in the right place this time 11 at 25 relic auto charles olyvera nice card macaroni seroni. Yeah, if you need a break schedule, I can give you a break schedule too But it's scheduled for right now. So as soon as this break is done here You have me nervous. How's it been? Did I miss? No, because I knew I saw the the count was wrong and I'm like, oh, we're missing something because Halley's job guard the door Oh cheese frid's going on Gonna celebrate a win that got handed to you. I guess Easy cheese fans. I'm just joking Don't be sore winners All right, here we go, we've got max hollow a 14 of 25 That was the bad save. How's that top of the bad save? I guess it's the champion. That's a champion's goal So I can't wait to see the Bruins game winner in this it better be in here Next up relic michael quiesa number 47 of 99 Next up is jumbo relic of carla esparza 84 of 99 A lot of colby colby covington a lot of esparza today. Come on camera relic auto of jose aldo number 35 of 99 jose aldo relic auto 35 of 99 Next is all-time greats auto antonio radrigo nogara 12 of 99 12 of 99 on the nogara auto I agree with that shame there should be it's surprising because they have nicknames auto and nickname autos in uh, like every other sport Except like ufc where ufc. It's like they're more known For the most part the back the last ufc car out. We're pulling during the daytime here Legends auto brock lesnar 22 of 49 The guy's torso looks like mine minus the tattoo Rock a lesnar 22 of 49 legends auto. We're like twins pretty much I'm not sleeping out. We're maging out. Put the sleeve down. Good luck on that one y'all. Man. We got some big hits in this case Yeah, so does mine six. What do you mean? Look got thin my arm is All that guy has his muscle. I might have muscles to be determined He has more muscle in his forearm than I have in like the rest of the rest of my body He could throw me like a football probably all right Good luck on the random everybody some big cards some big cards today though five and four nine times on The names and the hits on put them side by side to see who gets what? Before we run it here Tyler w there was uh one from the us the name the last names were really similar So I had it separated. There's uh one spot from the Tyler w from Canada and Tyler w us had seven So that's how you're separated right there u.s. Canada easy So nine times names nine times hips put it side by side to see who gets what one two three four five six seven eight and nine Edward p down to Edward p and the cards nine times. Good luck y'all one two three four five six seven eight and nine Uh yanez down to hues and pendulato Thanks for joining those breaks everybody. There are two more cases tonight with sam cases four and five random card style. I'm at ufc Chance at legends autos current stars. We have some big rookies today as well It's a lot of fun cool relics also Edward p with the the yanez auto e and w Anderson silver redemption mark d patty pimblet base and the canvas relic michael perrera hung c matt hues auto tyler from the us Nunez moments auto mark d with the case a relic shiji with the asparza relic mark d seroni auto tyler w us with the robert wittaker relic jonathan l with the rob faunt relic auto tyler from canada jumbo relic uh michael chandler tyler from us auto brock lesnar no h with the rookie relic ox marono e and w had the sean brady to 25 and the robert wittaker relic to 14 josh h relic auto of jose aldo jonathan l Irene aldana auto tyler from the us relic auto andrade josh h amanda nunez to 49 base parallel tyler w From the us chris docus relic talon h with the no garo auto e and w dosan hosts base parallel tyler w us rishad evans auto to the 99 um Andrade jersey to five goes to miles h mark d with the munoz auto Chad r the hollowed at 25 e and w chic chicagin to 49 um Relic auto charles olivera goes to tyler w and the hughes and penn dual auto going to edward p Get the results posted to the site. Thanks again everybody moving on to the next one


Hi, this is Jerry McCalskey again, story threading for Unfinished 21. This time the session is Virginie, interviewed by Ella. And here they are in my brain. Here is Virginie, who in 1992 had started a lab, or think tank actually, with her husband Jean-Christophe Victor, who died an untimely death, although he lived a really full life. But when he passed away, Virginie's life really changed dramatically. Her kids were four, five, and nine. And then she sat them down and they started rethinking and together planning their future lives, which were going to have to be really different. So her kids shifted from being victim to this change, to being actors of change. And there's a really there's a really lovely section of this conversation, which is about coping successfully over time with change, but also struggling with, at one point, she wanted to take her life. She just was really lost. But the piece of the conversation that really drew me in, that I'd like to head toward, is this idea of the fact that a unifying direction for addressing climate change hasn't been defined. And I'm going to get to it first by going to another talk that I sort of processed into my brain recently. It's one of my favorite talks. It's by George Monvio. It's a TED talk and from 2019 and I wrote down that it's excellent. That's a little bit of my editorial here. And in this talk, he says, hey, we actually don't have a story. You know, when we have no story that explains the present and describes the future, hope evaporates. And he then describes how the neoliberal story, which we are still in, replaced Keynes' story, and here's John Maynard Keynes, the famous economist, and I'll do a quick summary because I took notes in my brain and the Keynes story was, hey, and this is how all the stories begin, disorder afflicts the land, caused by the powerful and nefarious forces of the economic elite, which have captured the world's wealth. And then the hero of the story, the enabling state, supported by working class and middle-class people, will contest that disorder, will fight those powerful forces, by redistributing wealth and through spending public money on public goods, will generate income and jobs, restoring harmony to the land. And all the stories end with restoring harmony to the land. And this was the story kind of since World War II through the beginning of the neoliberal era, which happens around Clinton, Thatcher, that kind of era. We, you know, Reagan, the Reagan Revolution turns into neoliberalism, which Democrats buy into entirely. I have a whole other thread about sort of the rise of neoliberalism and how that worked. In fact, here's the thought, most progressives bought the neoliberal agenda, which is connected to, Bill Clinton was a good Republican president, which is one of my beliefs. The little purple thoughts are more editorial, more my beliefs. If I go back to the neoliberal story, you'll see that it's pretty different from Keynes. Disorder afflicts the land, caused by the powerful and nefarious forces of the over mighty state, who's collectivizing tendencies, crush freedom and individualism and opportunity. That's our problem. And the hero of the story, the entrepreneur, will fight those powerful forces, roll back the state, and through creating wealth and opportunity, restore harmony to the land. And Mondio's statement in this talk is that, hey, we're missing the better new story. The progressives have shown up, I think a lot of people are really angry about the neoliberal story. It hasn't really worked out in a lot of places. It's destroying the earth while it's keeping a lot of people in poverty. And he proposes something he calls the restoration story. Disorder afflicts the land, caused by the powerful and nefarious forces of people who say, there's no such thing as society, who tell us that our highest purpose in life is to fight like stray dogs over a dustbin. The heroes of this story will revolt, or us, will revolt against this disorder. We will fight those nefarious forces by building rich, engaging, inclusive, and generous communities, and in doing so, we will restore harmony to the land. And that's his story. He's offering it up in 2019 as what might replace neoliberalism, which is also a thought in my brain. So, when Virginie looks at this question, he's talking a lot about how to talk about this. So if you think about economic models or technical solutions, you pull in different directions. It's hard to make technical climate change issues sexy. The issue of climate makes people sometimes autistic. They don't listen to others. And then she tells the story about the formation of the European Union and tells it in a nice way about the steel and coal board that started not that long after the end of World War II, when France and Germany were mortal enemies, and here in the coal and steel board, they in England began to make friends again and figure out how to work together as a European Union, which later grows into the European Union, which Brexit has since torn asunder in some pretty big ways over the last couple of years. She also makes the statement that it's very hard to move systems, but when they do shift, it can be quite fast, which I agree with. And a piece of that is, how do we find the new story? But then she points out something I'm hearing more and more in lots of different places. More than half of young people are extremely concerned about climate change to the point where they're changing their behaviors. So she points to a report that came out, young people's voices on climate anxiety, government betrayal and moral injury, a global phenomenon. This is a recent 2021 study about climate anxiety, teen anxiety, and I've got this connected to a thought that I'll go to in a second, this 2020 marker generational tipping point. This is an important thought to me. But four out of ten young people fear having children due to climate crisis. This is pretty a pretty huge thing. So for me, I'm really really interested in what young people are doing right now between Greta Thunberg and school strikes for climate change in America, the Douglas High School students who are trying to do arms reductions, the Green New Deal, all of us, Jacinda Ardern being the Prime Minister of New Zealand, really young. There's a whole bunch of young people who are doing things and if they manage to link arms and work together, not in unison, in the uniform sense with only one message, which the far right has actually done really well, but with the unifying message that resonates, that unifies people and they can turn that into a convincing story, then I think we actually might have a whole lot of possibility to fix this mess that we're in. So I don't, this conversation of course didn't end with a solution to all the world's problems, but it dug into and opened up a whole lot of really interesting paths for me. So thanks for listening.


Now there are stepping stones along the way Once you have a hint that your mind is powerful that your Consciousness is is very powerful then you can have experiences of what you could call manifesting where You start to see your thoughts Manifest before your eyes and that's a very helpful step because that's showing you the power of your mind Anything that shows you the power of your mind and the power of thought is a helpful step on the journey and so I've had a lot of those kind of experiences myself and Very many mystical experiences very strong very convincing But also they always came with with this feeling like I'm showing you this I'm I'm using this to show you something and that something was the power of the mind and Then it seemed to reach a point in consciousness and awareness where it was like But Even if you could manifest anything that you think you want Would you rather have an experience of eternal happiness? Wouldn't you trade all that manifesting for a consistent state of peace? Wouldn't you go that extra step to know your source to know your Creator to know yourself your true identity? That's literally beyond even the manifesting Beyond the stage of manifesting and for me. It was a big. Yes. It was like a huge. Yes, like yes I want to be Consistently happy joyful. I want peace of mind I want to have a state that transcends all judgments all comparisons all illness Every doubt I want to live in a state of certainty that is more important to me than even Manifesting what I believe I want Because I had to come to the realization that I didn't really know what I wanted You know and and that that I that was trying to manifest was still spinning its wheels and Having a lot of fun actually spinning his wheels, but there was something beyond that there was something more and To me, that's what spiritual awakening is all about Where you get to that point where you say yes, I'm willing to know who I am I'm willing to Wake up from this dream, and I'm willing to accept the happy dream of non-judgment Now what is a happy dream of non-judgment? What's simply a state of mind where you do not have an opinion about anything? Absolutely anything it doesn't matter when people it's political it can be about nature It can be about music Movies it's coming to a place where you don't have an opinion you don't take a side Now why is it important not to take a side? It's because The ego made up the dualistic system of sides The ego invented all this variety and multiplicity and sides and when we take a side We've reinforced the ego in our awareness and not love Jesus tells us in the Course in Miracles That love makes no comparison. He says comparison must be an ego device for love makes them That love is a state of perfect acceptance It's the state of what is it's the state that goes beyond the dualistic Good and bad right and wrong ethics morality All of those still would fit in the category of judgments and in order to forgive We have to begin to see that we can transcend even morality even those stepping stones that helped us along the way