I'm going to call the Calis School Board meeting to order. And public comment on items not on the agenda. Additions are changes. And just so you know, the select board is usually a little more interactive with people that come to the meetings where we don't make them wait until the beginning or the end to speak. But I would ask if people have something to say that we don't have an hour. So make it brief. And to the point, it'd be really helpful. OK. You said Kat has info on the trash thing. So should we flip the order of talking about stuff? I think that makes sense. So let's talk about Act 46 first. I just don't want to lose sight of having time to talk about that issue as well. So thank you for coming.  That makes sense. OK. May I use the wheeler? Select board. I'm Katie Linkard as the reporting secretary. Cliff Emmons, Calis Select Board. Rose Kalchuk, select board. I'm Chris Catterette on the school board. Rick? Rick Burgess. Kale Graham. Scott Vassage. Janet Ansel. David Delport from the Tech Organs. Scott Thompson from the U32 board. Rick Keaton, Calis Board. School board. Susanna Culver, Calis Board. John Brazen, Calis Select Board, and Judy. Judy Robert, Calis Board. And this is Jerome from Orca. What do you call him? Right. I wanted to make sure I wasn't sure I was going to say it. So let's start with the first name. So what's going on with Act 46? What can we do to help? Well, the late, I mean, it's just to kick it off. I mean, it seems like in August we will be really facing a decision about whether this is likely that our proposal would be accepted, the alternative proposal, put in by all five towns. Well, maybe you could back up a little bit. Does Calis School Board or the sort of union submitted an alternative governance plan? That's right. Alternative governments, the government governance option, other than what was pushed by the AOE and by the legislature, the preferred model, which does not work for us. Hold on a second. I think Gail and Janet are struggling to hear. If you guys want to pull your chairs up, you can be in.  And Otto is my model. We can turn the fan off if people are having trouble hearing all. It's a speed up, you know? The band stays. Jerome, if you open that door with that help, do you think the bugs are going to come out? Well, I'll get you in first. So anyways, I'm sorry, go ahead. So essentially, what happened was this. We were tasked, there's been a very lopsided process to actually push through a single universal model, which kind of works for Chittenden, Takali types of urban towns. And certain towns with a lot of wealth and larger economies, but smaller towns can be really victimized by this. And what's happened is at this point, the agency of education and the state school board, that they can essentially impose this, we actually went out and did, we did a study for a few years, two and a half years, probably on whether that preferred model, which is what was being pushed down on us, would work. And all five towns unanimously basically rejected that, the boards. We never even put it out for a vote. But the boards, there was much discussion. We turned that thing inside out and it just didn't work. We created a proposal. I just want to clarify what you say. That merger study committee that went on basically as long as you were talking about, this committee did not recommend merger. It wasn't unanimously not recommending merger. It was, remember we had the, what was unanimous was every board approved the alternative governance. And that's what you submitted to the AOE? Right, and they, at this point, rejected that. Their recommendation is that after a lot of work by all of the towns and the unanimous recommendation of the five towns plus the consolidated high school, that they rejected that out of hand and said, no, we're going, basically we recommend the preferred model. So now this goes. But what was their reason for that? Well, go ahead, Scott, do you want to get the details? One, this is just a recommendation. This is not a decision. It's not, but you can see the writing on the wall. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, essentially the agency of education rejected our arguments. They, and leaned on sort of what I'm tempted to call, and I guess what I now will call the dogma of consolidation, that a consolidated system is the best means for achieving the goals of Act 46, the equity, quality, efficiency, transparency, and value. What our alternative proposal had argued was that because, especially because of the problem of our legacy debt in among the five towns, that this, the transition from our present system to a merged system, which is essentially all town lines are abolished, and we become one great big sort of super town. What would happen in this case is that there would be a shifting of costs from higher wealth to lower wealth towns. The higher wealth, especially U.S. Montpelier, but I'm not putting anything on U.S. Montpelier because they actually agreed that this was unfair, that Calis and Wister should pay for their bond. When you say a shifting of costs, it's actually from the higher wealth. It's actually from the shifting wealth goes from the lower wealth to the higher wealth. Shifting of the burden is from higher to lower wealth. Shifting of wealth is, or shifting of resources is from the lower wealth to the higher wealth town. So what, three towns have a total debt of about $15 million that that would then be spread out and shared within all of the towns, regardless of whether or not we have debt or not. I don't even understand how they take that. So we would take on their debt. I don't understand how they can do that. We have to vote to agree to it. I don't think the state's going to be able to force that on us. Well, it's, there's so many questions, yeah. There's so many questions associated with this. But the problem is that our argument was that this landed us in a kind of paradox. We could have equity, but then we wouldn't have efficiency because in order to achieve an equitable solution to the debt problem for a merged district, and oh, God, I'm the world's worst explainer, so forgive me, in order to achieve an equitable solution, East Montpelier's debt would have to be in the same proportion to the overall debt as East Montpelier's student population is to the overall student population since that's how costs are distributed. Sounds complicated. Yeah, I'm sorry. And it's kind of, you're doing a fine job. You're doing fine, it's just not the way to begin with. So because East Montpelier's debt is twice as big as its share of student population, basically what we would have to do in order to devise an equitable solution is there are a number of possible, I've been able to come up with three possible solutions. One of which is the one that Janet got through in 2017, transferring the bond from school to town. But there are two other ways in which, which involve essentially either bond and buy, that is the new merged district would bond about nine million dollars and then buy each school in order to provide the restitution to basically fix the damage done by this cost shifting. Or alternatively, it would be a sell and lease back arrangement whereby schools, school property would transfer in all the towns that have to happen in all the towns except for East Montpelier. East Montpelier could do it too, but at least the other four. And in that way, what you could do if the property were transferred from the school district to the town and then were leased back to the new merged school district, you could essentially build it in so that Callis and Wister and now Berlin and Middlesex as well would be reimbursed the amount that it would take to compensate for the extra subsidies that they would otherwise have been paying. So that essentially in that scenario, all of our property taxes would rise to the level of East Montpeliers. East Montpelier, that would be however, the towns would be able to potentially lower their taxes so that school plus town taxes would remain constant. School taxes would go up, but for Callis and Wister and to some degree also for Middlesex and Berlin, town taxes would go down. And overall, school taxes would all go up to the same level, the level of East Montpelier. So you're looking at saying, bring up the town taxes and lower the town taxes and buy them and have the same. But the school and the state don't get to separate town tax rates, we do. Right, but here's the thing. For example, in this scenario, Callis school would be leased back to the new merged district for roughly $300,000 per year. Base, just to cover that subsidy amount. And then whatever else is negotiated for typical lease type costs. East Montpelier would be leased back for zero. So that $300,000. They don't own the school. They simply don't own the school. No, I'm saying how they can lease back something they don't own. They do own it. The town owns the school. Well, East Montpelier town then, whatever they do. No, for Callis school. Right. How can they lease back something? We have to vote this all through. Yeah, I'm not saying this is a good solution. Oh, okay. I'm just trying to explain. I'm just trying to understand how they can agree to this. It's really, it's really convoluted. This is the case of the puzzle. This is to solve only the debt, if we are forced to consolidate. Right. And then there's the, but there's also the things like the school closure issue and you know, you don't, the way this super board is arranged. I mean, the town essentially, that's based upon the population. The student party, we would have much lower representation than say, probably two towns would control all of the decision-making on that board. And the townspeople of Callis have, if they decide to close Callis, which they will. I mean, ultimately that will, because it will, they'll fill their capacity to these Montpelier, it'll be their financial advantage to do that. That, you know, we really would have no recourse. I mean, I don't care people talk about the Articles of Agreement, but we asked the lawyer in the 706B discussion, I asked the specific question, and he said you couldn't write those in a way that you could tie the hands of future board. What financial advantage would it be for us to move to Montpelier, to close Callis and send the kids over there? It wouldn't be to our advantage. We're going to be paying higher taxes under this scenario. Well, okay, so if the taxes can be fixed, and I'm just wondering how East Montpelier benefits monetarily, I just, you made a statement I'd like to hear. We're covering that debt, but then we're also, there's another side to this. But if you figure out how to cover the benefits.  You take a school away, the families, those people with kids are going to get as close to the schools as they can to go. That's going to push them into the East Montpelier, push those property values up. Hires get pushed down.  It's a big hardship. I mean, we've raised kids. You know what it is to be able, if you're far from a school, and you have two working parents, that's a big issue, to be able to get to them and arrange logistics. So there are a lot of loans. Of those loans, I'm just saying, we would still have a school, we would just rename East Montpelier, like Calpelier, and it would then become the school for the community. You might have a longer distance to drive, but it still would be the community school. We thought of that scenario, closing the Calpelier entry under that scenario. Scott's leaseback program is not something that's available, as I understand it, because the school would be out of the system, there's nothing to lease back. They wouldn't happen at the same time.  If you had a car, you wouldn't have a car. We'd lose the towns with the greater number of voters, I guess, or would have the greater sway. Another town essentially could close our school. And I think there's a huge constitutional issue here. I brought this up, I mean, years ago, Janet came to our select board when Gay Somerton had something similar. And I said, it's a constitutional issue. The state cannot force our schools to close, and other towns cannot vote to close or to augment, cannot vote to do anything with a property that we own and hold. We own that property in a fee simple title. And for the state to think that they're gonna come in and they're gonna take control or the vote of middle sex in Berlin, there's some other towns that are gonna vote the future of a school that we own. I don't see how they can legally do that. I really don't. I think we go to a charter school. If that happens, I think that's another thing. Well, I think what we have to do is they clearly think they can. I think we all have to get ready for a big legal battle. I mean, I think we're gonna have to take this to court. And we met this weekend with a group of other towns who are in the same boat as we are. And they were talking about options and they're fairly limited out there, what to do. But I mean, one discussion that I had that I'm actually quite interested in, they actually, this was in North Bennington, they successfully discontinued their school and restarted it as an independent. And it operates within the SU actually. They still access special ed funding and resources and then they pay for certain sources out of the SU, but they're independent. They retain control. So we may want to consider this. I hate to do that, I'm a big proponent of public education, but this is going, this is really going south on us the way and the way it has been managed is more of something you would expect from a fascist government rather than certainly a democracy. And it's so far from, you know, from my governance models. I mean, I'm astounded that the legislature would ever even consider this. And you know, I've, you know, this state has a policy on energy. We're trying to go local with our food, go local with our energy generation. You know, reduce our driver miles by car pooling and everything else that we can come up. And then when it comes to schools, we're going to bust them and what's going on for Rochester, busting them over the mountain, over a branded mountain to another watershed.  There, this is just. I think, you know, what is really egregious about it is that people have been saying this and put many people, you know, hundreds of them posing this and giving these facts. And Janet, you've heard it, you know, I've been in a lot of those hearings. I've done it even myself and it's come falling on deaf ears. I mean, it has been deaf ears. I don't understand what's driving that, but I tell you one thing, it's not okay with me.  People have been led to believe that this is going to fix the runaway cost of schools. There are a lot of people out there that studies have also been saying. And it's not. I don't tell me, I know exactly what they're saying. That's why they're gung-ho about it. We've been educating. That's what they think. Yeah, but there are a lot of people that prove, you know, giving the other the contrary information, it's just been ignored and it has been squashed. You know, that's what is bad here. It's one thing to go in with incomplete information and when you've got AOE in groups like that that are heavy lobby presence, I mean, my God, you don't see Rebecca Holcomb out in the communities. Have you ever seen her anywhere? She was on. Yeah, I know, but you know when I'm talking Dr. Lewis in this process, you'd see her every day in those halls and people and that's unfortunately, you know, that's the way this goes. Do callous select board members have any other questions? I mean, I've attended some of the meetings and some of the other board members have too. Yeah, so I did attend the last meeting. It was held at U32 and it was informative. And I, you know, I just want to say I applaud the work of our local school board and Scott and I agree that this is totally not okay. So what's the plan for August 15th? Because that's the day that they're gonna review our appeal or who is the day? I need to know where you have it. Well, that's the deadline for all the submissions, the resubmissions, right? That's what we have, we have seven hearings. So we have to have a resubmission for August 15th? Well, there's a one pager, the state board has asked for one page answer to I think four questions. We might have to go over a page or at least do a page and then have backup. Or we'll get an F, right? We'll get an F and go over a page. I think we're gonna get an F regardless. It's sort of set up. You do have that. We do have that. It's a state board and that's not the agency of education. Well, they're very tight. They're not the same, but they're my own assessment, my own read from the meetings that I've attended is that the state board will be inclined to do what it's told. Now, is this the group that was formed?  Oh, yeah. Is that, is this the one? That's the one, the three Musketeers? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Janet? And Flora. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's okay, I just wanted to add something about the F-49 that passed last year, which was intended to make it easier and a little more clear how you did an alternative governance structure, which is what we're in right now. And one of the things I managed to get added to that was language that said that one of the considerations would be a wide disparity in debt. AOE opposed it pretty aggressively, but it did pass. The governor signed it. And as far as I can tell, the agency ignored it. Yes, yes. In their report, because I read those, almost all of it, read all the callous at the Washington Central part of it. So I don't know whether it's gonna do any good, but I am gonna write a letter to the state board pointing that out. And it's not just that they ignored the alternative governance structure debt language, but they also ignored the language and the underlying statute that you're talking about. Yes. Which I can't remember. I thought the language was a little more broad, but to go back to that early discussion, I think that there has been, for the last year, room for communities to come to some different arrangement on debt. And, but, you know, they're not, none of them are ideal and none of them are simple. Jim. But they're there. I have a question for you. Who's running the show in there? The legislature really, I mean, they, A&E should not be dictating to the legislature what the hell's going on here. I'm sorry, this is- They ignored what we did. They didn't do anything. Well, I'm sorry, but you know, this is a democracy here. And I, you know, maybe I'm out of line, but I've watched this now for years. You know, I've been in this, before this was a fight, Scott and I, and you know, I have been astounded how little backbone I've seen. And certainly blindness from Dave Sharp and these are people I've worked with in the past and bailed out of troubles, you know, when they were in Addison County and things like that. I look, you know, in the complete toughness. And I'd like to know what was driving that decision-making because it's clearly not going to save money. It is clearly not gonna really help the kids in any way.  I know I've talked to the states that did it.  You know, but that's the, this is the reality. Why did you let this happen? I mean, they should not be dictating these rules and these conditions. I mean, this is way out of control. This, you guys have led us down in a big way. I say those are harsh words, but I'm understating them. Believe me, I might have been. Well, let's hope the legislators, if they think there's an unreasonable interpretation of the law, or they've limited the flexibility that was provided, let's hope the legislature, the those who control it, stand up to this. I'm just not confident because there's a divide in those that control the legislature.  And this is great. And you know, this is just like to see an environmental stuff. There's the urban environmentalists who have their perspective on what protecting environment is. I mean, taking the beer can, putting in the recycling bin, instead of the trash can, that's environmentalism to an urban person. And these people are fine with big, huge school districts. They graduated in classes of 2,000 students. You know, they worked for them. They went to Columbia or Yale. And so, we're going to lose the soul of Vermont. This is just dismantling of our rural culture Well, you know, we're getting, I mean, we hear all this screaming about the development in this state. These schools are one of the last vestiges of our little town. Now, there's a threat at the federal level in our rural post offices. Then there's a threat now at the state level. The close our rural schools. I don't know what we're going to have left.  Well, it's getting harder and harder to track. We're having to pay people to come live here. No, we're not. That's a crazy idea. That's not true. No one can argue that costs are becoming very, very difficult. But you know what? There are people to come live here. And that's just craziness. Well, they're not paying. Of course, that's not a proposal. No one's paying anyone to come live here. But taxes are too high. They're taxes are too high. And we have to figure it out. You know, I'm not saying that all this is correct. I'm just saying that we have to figure out a better way to do what we're doing. We can keep plugging ahead and ignore everything and just say, I want to keep the school that I went to school at because I went there and I would have fond memories. That's not the core of the problem. The taxes here, I grew up on Long Island. My mother, my retired mom, 94 years old, pays $16,000 in property taxes for a house that my dad built for $25,000, including the property in 1955. Their house is valued at like $400,000. It's not worth a million dollars. She's paying $16,000 in property taxes. Most of that is school taxes. So, and I have friends in Connecticut and friends in California. Maryland. But the issue is the taxes are high-related to our income. And there's a big, larger issue here. The wage here is terrible. And the taxes are high-related to our income. Down there, they make gobs of money. They don't care about a $16,000 tax bill. But to say, just unequivocally, our taxes are high. Our taxes are very low. It's just that our wages and our incomes are also much lower. You look at the whole picture. You gotta look at the whole picture. The tax drop here, the tax is high. They're not related to income. They're high. I don't know if you are. I wanted to give other folks an opportunity to speak. Chris, did you have any? I mean, you're new to the school board, so. I have nothing to say at this time. I'm still trying to take it in. This is only my second meeting ever. Oh, really? Oh, well, for you. Really? I'm coming to Callen. And my first one was the entire issue of board. So it was equally as overloading. Gail, did you have anything to say? Yeah, well, I have one question for clarification, along with everything else. But one of the latest I've heard that if our school does close, the building is no longer ours. Is that true? I mean, this. Go ahead, Scott. Oh, sorry. Yeah, if the merged district, as I understand it, if the merged district decides no longer to use a building, they turn it over to the town for, basically, a dollar. Well, they don't own it. We don't own it. Oh, sorry. Yeah. The problem is, they use that. Well, we don't think what they want, but they use the deeds. And the deed is very clear. We bought it. We own it. It's actually in the town that Callis' name. It's not in some school entity's name. It's in the town that Callis' name. So if they want to buy it from us first, so they can own it and then give it back to us for a dollar, we can have that conversation. They do not own it. Right. Thank you. The chain of title is clear. But if they were to give it back to us, it could be used as a community center, as a rec center. There would be multiple uses. Right? There's a room or two. There is a room. I basically just came to learn. I've heard bits and pieces of this conversation. I'm very concerned about taxes. I think they're high. If you're retired from a Vermont business and you never made a great fortune, and when you sold your business, you didn't make a fortune again, then you're worried about high taxes. And they just drift up every year. It doesn't seem to matter. Everybody at town meeting, oh, we want all that. And the school, particularly. So I'm on the verge of needing to move somewhere else to lower my overhead, basically. To that, I would say this, though. You're having been on a board, the vice chair of the board for six years in the past. And then involved with that school heavily ever since.  They control that cost as much as they can, and they keep that reasonable. I will guarantee you, and this is what I heard from the main people I talked to, the second they consolidate it, you've lost that check. You have no voice. And the costs spiral upward because there's nothing. And they also said, universally, accountability went to nothing. And they wouldn't even have much to say about what goes on at U-32 because it's a bigger group. Right. And just imagine that. Well, I could only just say, by you'd think. I mean, by efficiencies of scale, that should be cheaper. Why is it that that's by far the highest cost per pupil? And there's a lot of waste in there. There is you can't oversee. There isn't the kind of oversight at that level that you've got down at the local boards. Assuming you're like good boards.  It's cause and effect. The communities have the responsibilities, like a select board. If you put people in that aren't going to manage well, you're going to cost you. Want to give Scott a cheering opportunity, and then we need to talk about trash. We're not talking trash right now. Yeah, well, I was going to say something on those lines. Scott, do you have something you want to say? You can't impose this structure. But there's agreements that go along with it. Could you talk a little bit about that, Scott? There would have to be articles of agreement. And there are sort of standard default articles of agreement that we would not want. We would not be in our interest. So what we're trying to do, I mean, Rick is sort of outlining one or more alternative options that we could really try to keep open. One of those alternative options is to draw up variant articles of agreement in order to cover the debt problem in particular. Because that is clear and present danger, I think. And you can quantify it. And it's clear that if we don't solve that problem, we will go into this new merged system with bitterness and all kinds of bad vibes and psychology between the towns that will not lend itself to good management or, you know, legal issues. Well, he's a district. I thought he said the articles of agreement though couldn't find future boards. That's quite the word. There's one school of thought that says, if the towns vote on the articles, the actual text of certain articles, and those articles might have to do, say, with closing schools or with distribution of legacy debt, if those texts are voted on by the townspeople, then they can only be changed by the townspeople in a vote. That's a school of thought. However, there are other, I've heard other opinions expressed that no, that wouldn't matter, either. So once you've relinquished that power of that vote, you, the town, is no longer. That's what the lawyer who was in the 76G stated. I would go with the first term interpretation, but I don't. I think it would be at least. I specifically asked the question that the 76B here, they had a lawyer hired to come in an asset, and I asked that exact question, and he said no. He said the base, who was? Giuliani. Giuliani. And he came in, and he just, he said no. Any board in the future could, at their whim, could change those. And that means that if you've got two towns that are controlling all the votes, that there you go. Any articles you put in place can be modified. But there would be sort of a moral bond that you would hope would. Where has been the moral of the long-sought institution? I don't trust that. All right, so I want to give Sharon the next thing to speak. Yeah, thank you. So I think I want to echo Rose's comments and just thank her. This is Sharon with a calc sliver. With a sliver, yeah. Right, I was seven minutes late, and you guys were all finished eating and like deep into the time. No. Some of us didn't eat yet. Yeah. I did. So I'm hearing that the debt is a big issue. But one of the things that I worry about in this kind of a negotiation, if you will, is that we've made a big issue with the debt rightfully. And that gets addressed. Oh, the debt's taken care of. You're not going to own these fund players' debt or anybody else's debt. So I think what I haven't heard with any clarity is how do we feel about the issue if the debt issue has moved aside? And what position are we taking now so that we're clear, perhaps, that the debt's not the only issue, because that is a solvable issue. And some of the other issues that we're talking about, the fundamental nature of the school in our community, which I agree with. I lived in this town for five years before I knew anybody. And I started meeting you all when the kids started going to school. Right. It's a huge community. It's a huge community. And the debt can be solved, but we still have other concerns. So I want to say that out loud. Yeah, I don't think you can solve the sense of community in any written document or anything. The sense and the feeling and the stuff like that that's important is just gone. And you can't get that back. Janet, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the debt can be solved. We've been working on it for two years. We don't have an answer, right? I choose, yes. We think it can. I think the Articles of Agreement can do something other than simply pulling the debt. Just not to say that it's easy to do or that it will be totally satisfactory. I mean, the things that you have to take into account. There may be some consequences in terms of leasing, and selling, and transferring property, and so on. So this is something we haven't tried yet, because everything there was tried to add in last year to the, I don't know, the traditional model, whatever it is. I'm trying to call it the preferred model, the non-alternative model, that allowed something other than pulling debt. And so that's been on the book since last year. And I think there would be, if it says specifically bonding, I think there'd be room to do something like that. The agency opposed that language, too. They opposed that language for the traditional merger, and they opposed the language. So I got that language in, and I also got the language in on the alternative model, and they opposed that. So the report reads as though neither of those didn't success, but they do. So at what point do we say it's solvable? And we know for a certain 100% that it is something that can be solved. I will write up. I'll show you the solution. It's a mess. You will hate it, but it's a solution. And it's something they're accepting. So I don't know if they're accepting anything like that, but this Washington Central is a little bit unusual in terms of the disparity, because I looked at all the other towns, other SUs to see how much disparity there was in SUs. And there are SUs, including merged ones, where there's a significant disparity, but not as much as there is in Washington Central. So nobody's done it yet, but I think that there is room to do it. 100%, it's hard to know. But if one avenue is to have a group of people figure out a solution, that would be acceptable if that's where we end up, just so that we're not sort of saying, no, no, no, no, no, and then realizing that we've got to figure something out. But every time we put a solution out there to any problem, it's ignored. Or else they end run it with a new rule. I mean, that's been consistent through this whole process.  I think if voters in the five communities voted for an alternative debt structure, they would agree with it. I can't think why they would agree. They is who? They being the state board, ultimately it's the state board. As opposed to the agency of education, which disagrees right now. Ultimately it's the state board. But I agree with Scott. They're basically staffed out of the agency. So they're definitely on. They're in bed. Yeah, there's a division, but it's not as. So all of this is going to happen before the legislature goes back in session.  I mean, I can't, without knowing what's happening in August and what's going to happen, it would be certainly easier to come up with a solution if the communities that actually voted, the fact that there wasn't a vote, I think, was one weakness in our proposal. And I understand why there wasn't. But I do think it's very, very deliberate. At every one of the 706B meetings that I have said, we've got to be out in the public educating them. We've got to bring them. And there was a deliberate effort not to do that. So we're going to have to move on. I understand what Janet's point is. I have the history. But your point is if there were, if the town's folks, we had a special school board, school meeting, whatever you call it, town meeting, and we had a vote on a proposal. And the town's people in each town voted to support that proposal, the alternative proposal with the agreements and everything else Scott kind of talked about. Then you think the likelihood is greater than the A. I think it's straight, that's it. OK. That's an extremely important point. And it raises a question whether we should try to get something for the November election. Yeah, I think you should. Well, we have to have this thing nailed down. Like, I think you ran towards scenarios of financing. The powers that be, you all, the collective needs to arrive at what they think the best scenario is, and the most likely scenario to get passed, by the way. And it doesn't bias for against any town. Like, that's the one that's going to get passed. And then that's got to be run by the voters, like in November, as you say, and we can do that before the legislature. So you have to get the other towns to agree to that. Because we know what's going to happen August 15. They're going to still say no. So I think we have to go with knowing that that's probably what's going to happen and be planning for the next step. Because that's really going to be the most important thing, is to get the vote out. I would say this. If we're going to put that vote out there, simultaneously, we are also putting out our clear message that we're going to court, if any legal means we can. And number two, we look at discontinuing the school and we can begin the expiration of the starting. Wait a minute, let me hear me out. No, what I mean is an independent school, because they can't really deal with that. And that shows that you're actually serious. I mean, the only reason I'm skeptical about this is that we've done this in good faith. All the towns in Vermont. And by God, they've been railroaded. So I don't see that process happening so quick that we have to do all that right now, I think. It takes about three months. I talked to the towns. The attorney general is going to have to get behind this and T.J. is not a dummy. And I think when he gets down to what the reading law is and who owns what, I think he's going to be thinking very long and hard about it. We're not going to have time to talk about trash, which we need to. Gail, just one comment. I'd like to make mention of those of us that attended the supervisory meeting two weeks ago. And when Michael Dwayne, who happens to be for me, is my failure. I'm an XAG. Got up and I'd staff on top of staff. He was very, OK, you know, there's already too much staff at the supervisory union. That's where they need to start looking at where the dollars are. That's where Michael is very down. He was filmed. OK, so can we talk about trash? Don't you want to stay and talk about trash, Joe? So just a brief history. I'm not curious. The town received a notice of violation for the dung on several different issues. Our depot, it's not a depot. Yes, the transfer station. And we had Bruce Westcott from Solid Waste Management District come in. And we got dung on the composting stuff, which we told them, never mind about this grow compost. What is it called, grow compost? The depot is serviced by a private and a real compost. And they weren't necessarily coming and picking stuff up as they were contracted to do so. John Braeban is now doing picking up the compost. I'm waiting for the phone call. From whom? I was told Grow was their last time. Oh, that's right. Isn't it July? July is their last time. That was July 8th or something. We'll have to check on the timing of that. But John Braeban offered to take that. But then we talked about we looked at getting a grant to put up a fence. People in the East Calvist and other areas didn't like the idea of a fence because it would look ugly. And we can't afford to have staff there to make sure people aren't dropping stuff off when they shouldn't. We got done because there was other stuff dumped there that shouldn't be there. There are rodents, those kinds of issues. So we thought, well, maybe we could talk to the school and see you about the possibility of having the, I guess they call it fast trash. They come to take the bags. So we have right now it's a fast trash but it's on a different location. A different location. Well, our current location is different than the school we're talking about. Right, right. So we wanted to talk to the school about possibly having the Saturday pick up, which is like for three hours, at the school. The school already has a dumpster and a composting dumpster. So we've talked about cooperation and sharing and all those nice things. So we wanted to have that conversation with the school. Well, to be clear, we're not talking about using a school dumpster, the fast trash. No, no, that would be for the compost. Well, no, they already have a compost. No, but we talked about putting the compost in the schools. The parries who do the fast trash, they take it off site the same day. So it would never be left at the school. So they just show up with the truck and the people bring bags. They bring their bags. Just what they do when they smell clearly around the WEC parking lot now. Yeah, the former fire station. Right. So we just wanted to have that conversation because we have to get back to the state with this violation that they've noticed the violation that they gave us. And the problem with the current site, it's historically been, it actually was a landfill at one time, it's where the trash used to go. And then it got closed to municipal trash and it was only a stump dump, as they call it, brush and stumps and that kind of stuff, which wound up being building materials and all this illicit dumping and whether or not someone's there. And we have no way to control that. And even though we've ceased that and our highway crew doesn't dump over there and you brush or anything any longer, we still have people backing up and dumping stuff and also leaving trash, knowing that they will get picked up on Saturday. So we need to end that. Are we gonna run into that issue at the school? I mean, we're gonna transfer that problem over to you. I think the fact that they come with the truck and they leave, right now, that's what happens at your place right now. No, right now there's, but right now there's people. It's an old landfill. It's an old landfill. There's a sign that says Callis Depot. There's the thing where they pull up so they can, you know, that, what is that, that boardwalk looking thing with the steps on it? So you can put the stuff into the truck. That wouldn't be there. So that leaves, I mean, those signs there are like, it's like advertising that the trash gets picked up here. So it would be trash when we advertised. I mean, if we did. I think you would find people, not many, but I think the opportunity for people to drive by Friday night and go, oh, they'll be here tomorrow. Sleep. Well, they can do that, and then you'll spend this, we won't do this. We can try it, and if it doesn't work, then we stop. If it's a problem for the school, it stops. You get what I'm saying. We can do it. An exploratory. We're proposing, at the very least, try this as a test run. We don't have any permanent infrastructure that we need to maintain at our current location or we need to dismantle. There's nothing there, and it's just going from one location to another, from one parking lot to another. And it doesn't work for the school, for whatever set of reasons we've been thought about, then we'll just end it. We'll come out of another. Right, and we've talked to the Perrys, and they don't care where they park their car. Really? I was thinking over by the dumpsters in that corner. We can explore that, but we'd have to, we do have a quarter of that. I would want to put it on a future school board agenda. We have to check with our insurance and have it work. Well, our town insurance, we could cover it. Right, the town insurance. And what we want to make sure that we're not- Our insurance would still have to authorize it. Probably have to have a waiver or something. Yeah, we'd have to work that out. We just have to make the concerns. We've got young kids there, so that has to be absolutely clean, and that we can't have people dumping them. So that would be major issue. Yeah. Well, I just wanted to put it out there that if we can work together on this issue, because we have to, we have to get back to the state. It's already been since April. And what do we need? We need a certain size parking lot, and what? What do you need? Room enough for a truck to park, room enough for people to get up, pull their cars up, and all of them- What size truck? They do it in front of the Woodbury- General's Fire station. Yeah, right, right. Every Saturday. So that much room there. Yeah, that's what you need. There's more than I've heard of in those lines. Yeah. Scott? What's the name of the guy that gave us demerits? They gave us the numbers of 11 roads. The demerits were the demerits of Western. It was Western? No, it wasn't Western. It was from the state. It was. Well, my question is- Deborah Pierce, I think, is your name. We have that sign up that says depot when we're registered. Right. What if we just say, no, we're not a depot. We're not registered. We'll take the sign down. We'll ask the shameless to drive his truck there forever. Just cutting off- I think people are going there because there's a sign they're going there because their grandfather went there, and they remember pitching it over the bank. There's no bank. They'd be pitching it on the soccer field of catalysts. It is different. My question is, does this guy inspect the Woodbury fast trash? Does he inspect the Woodbury? Well, I think the problem is we maintain a certification there, even though we no longer need one. The other ones don't. And so why did we do that? Why don't we get rid of that? We need to just not renew it. Yeah. Just get out of it. But that's not why residents are dumping there because we have a certification. It's why we're being inspected. I mean, inspection is legitimate. If people are dumping, they don't want to see that, and we don't want to see that. If we just have fast trash like they have in Woodbury and he's not playing stuff, that doesn't require any kind of certification. We wouldn't be an inspector. What we have now does not require a certification. So one of the things we could check out is getting rid of the certification. We send a letter, but it still doesn't matter if they happen to buy and they saw illegal dumping. They saw illegal dumping on your property. Right. They write the same letter you're dumping illegally. People run burn barrels. They write them notices, same notices. Yeah. Well, it wasn't so much that you didn't have a place to do it. I think you were offering to do it at the school to help with that community connection. Yeah, I'm also not right. It brings people to the school that normally wouldn't go to the school for any reason, another sense of using the school as part of the community. That's a very good point. It's trashed it all. Oh, but it's fine. You know, you can have Girl Scout cookie sales and Boy Scout, whatever stuff going on at the same time. Lile collection.  I mean, it is. I mean, go to the doctor. That's where you meet people, right? Yeah. SK Squad, he knows that. Sharon? No, I think people have a different sense of accountability and responsibility when it comes to the school grounds and to the quiet bend in the road that there will be no reason to stay. Right. Yeah, so I'm sorry. Just speaking as a resident of East Palace Village, moving the trash pickup to somewhere else doesn't solve the problem of people legally dumping. So what's the idea? We could put berms up at that point. And just close the whole area.  That's the only thing we've discussed. Guard rail or something. Grass, I was interested. I didn't believe that there wasn't a solution. I was just here. We don't need a parking lot there anymore. The lovers can park somewhere else. It's not at the dump. And we can actually make that. We actually talked about that. Or we can make that like a picnic area. It's actually not a terrible place to hang out. So you could also make that a nice little picnic area. A little park area. And then another alternative, potential alternative, I'm sure it's probably been considered. But I know that the Calus Rec Association operates the rec field, which has a big parking lot that is not necessarily used for anything a lot of time. Yeah, but originally, the thought was the community, with the school in the town working together, getting people to the school. Like you said, they don't normally go there. There's a lot of opportunities to get people involved, maybe, in watching a sports event or something while they're there. There's no sports events at the school. All the sports are set up at the right field. But you could have it. They could use the library. I think if we're creative, there's a lot of ways to get people involved more with the school if they're taking their trash there. And those school lots are maintained year-round. Those rec lots aren't necessarily where they don't dial the notch order. So that's true in the winter. Yeah. I mean, I can just see it there being more interaction. And we need the compost bin. Right. Scott? I go there every Saturday. 80% of the people that come during the summer are from Woodbury, from St. Louis. Even though they have their own? They don't. Yeah, they go there. OK, one more comment, Gail, and then we're going to wrap things up. It's my understanding that that property belongs to the Dwynell Association. Direct fields? Direct fields, yeah. It's at least to the CRA for a dollar a lifetime or something. Right. I think that's a consideration. I think that's a consideration. No, absolutely. I wasn't offering it as a necessary place. I thought of the rec field, but I think the solution makes more sense. Well, again, there's no plow in the rec field. Right, you can get down there. I mean, the town plows out the parking lot at the school already, so. You'd have to put the ramp in at the school. That takes up a lot of room. I don't know why you have to have the ramp. They don't have the other. So you can get to the recycling truck. But they don't have that anywhere else, that ramp. They're at the fast trash places. Well, that's how Brian Barry runs. He's going to have to change his operation if it doesn't work for us. All right, I know we were going to talk about community engagement, but I don't think we have time. And that was kind of something Dot was on call for, so. And she's out sick. So I wanted to thank the school board so much. I know you guys are busting your tails. And we really appreciate it. And all the long hours, and all the meetings, and yet you came tonight, and we really appreciate all your work. We appreciate your interest and the invitation. We'd love to do it again. Yeah, I mean, this is important. We're both doing town business, and we're working in isolation on this. This is really great. Well, we're going to do it at least two or three times a year. And if there is something you need from us, as you're working on whatever, you want to have some kind of joint documents signed by the town and the school board, just let us know. As this thing ramps up, if you need more meetings, just contact Denise, and we'll just have a call. Right.  Right, so just let us know. I think the communication lines are pretty good. As far as the trash is concerned, I think we have a meeting coming up that we can just address the whole board meeting, and then we can talk to them about to get on the agenda. And also, just because I want to make sure I'm on the record, I was in no way operating or suggesting that the rec field was the place to go. I was just thinking about it, and I'll turn it over. Yes, it's already in the notes. Yeah. Can the times are it is? The times aren't made. I was going to see my mouth just like, sorry. But David's going to do this. He's already got it. This time, right? So. OK, so thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, you guys. Yes, I make a motion to adjourn. Second. Aye. Aye. And is Katie's doing these notes, or do you all want to adjourn? Pardon? Sure. Motion to adjourn. So moved. All in favor? All in favor. Yeah, all in favor. All in favor. All in favor?


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It's a top-notch energy food and craft guarantees every single pound of parquet to contain 9,000 units of important vitamin A. So buy and tell your friends to buy this nourishing spread that tastes so good. Ask for parquet, P-A-R-K-A-Y, parquet margarine made by craft. Now let's journey on to Summerfield on the Great Gilder Sleeve. Heaven, the hillsides do purled. The larks on the wing, the snails on the thorns. And Uncle Schrockmorton, where is he? He's asleep. But he won't be long because just listen to what's going on across the street. Racket, how can a man sleep? I'm not making any racket. Uncle's across the street. The old Bullard House. They've got carpenters over there. The Bullard House. It's all boarded up. Not now it isn't. But there hasn't been anybody in there for four years, Leroy, not since the Hanson's moved. Why, George, I wonder if somebody's bought the place. Excuse me! Oh, my goodness. Breakfast, and I'm not even dressed.  Excuse me! My breakfast is ready. And guess what? There's people moving in across the street. Not so loud, Bertie. They'll hear you. What? It's a mess, Mr. Gilder Sleeve. I'm praying you mess. Oh, let me out of this bed, Leroy. Who's holding you? I'll sue him. So help me, I'll sue him. You mark my words, Leroy. I'll sue him. But the last thing I do... But the first thing I'll do is have breakfast. Where is everybody? Where's Marjorie? She's across the street. Across the... What's going on here? Hey, there's a moving van. You see, Bertie's talking to the driver. I won't have it.  Hobnobbing with truck drivers. Leroy, don't shout things like that. Ease gods. Come on back here and finish your milk. I said... Finish your milk. Downstairs, and I'd like my breakfast. Yes, sir. What would you like, Mr. Gilder Sleeve? We've got grapefruit. Well, in that case, I guess I'll have grapefruit. Yes, sir. Luckily, we've got it. I'll bring his eyes in. Where is Marjorie? Oh. Good morning, Uncle Darling. What's the matter? You're in for it.  In my own good time, Leroy. What's wrong? Sit down, my dear. I want to have an understanding here. This concerns you too, Bertie. Yes, sir. Now, about those people across the street. I found out all about them, Uncle Mort. They're moving in this afternoon. There's a man and his wife and a boy and a girl. Hey, no kidding. A girl for you and a boy for me. Well, the boy is my age. Oh. The girl is 11. That's what I wanted to speak to you two about. You've got to be careful about these people. They're strangers. But, Uncle Mort, they're people. It'll be so wonderful to have somebody new around for a change. But, my dear, we know nothing about these people. We haven't seen them. We don't know where they come from. I know, Mr. Gil-Sleeva. I was talking to the man on the truck. Huh? Well, where do they come from, Bertie? I don't know about them, but he comes from Newark, New Jersey. Oh, Easterners, eh? Yes, but he seems real nice. He drove all the way out here, took him two days and two nights. Yes. He would have made it soon only if the van broke down something wrong with a bear or something, he said. I don't know. Send him up six hours. Yes, well, about the... He's got a brother in Bloomfield, Kentucky. Sell hardware. We're primarily interested in the family, Bertie. The man on the van will be going back as soon as they get it unloaded. Oh, yes. I don't know nothing about the family. Well, we're not particularly interested in them, either. Except if I ever find out who the man is, I'll sue him. Sue him? Yes, for what his lumber truck did to my lawn. Back right up on it. The man obviously has no regard for property. Now, Uncle Mortar wasn't his fault. He wasn't driving the truck. He may be very nice. Probably some shyster who bought the place for peanuts. Run down, anyway. Wouldn't surprise me if they took in boarders. By George, I'd like to see him try. Really, Uncle Mortar? I'm not going to have my property depreciated by people taking in boarders. The such a thing is restrictions, you know? Yeah, that's why we had to get rid of our pig. Yeah. Well, this is different. Now, when the Bullards owned that place, I understand they really kept it up. Then the Bullards really were somebody. These people. They don't even know how to back a truck. I want you to keep away from them, all of you. Well, let me catch you hanging around over there.  And keep away from their boarders. Downtown? Oh, well, I may and I may not. What you watching, Mr. Gillespie? Something new going on over there? Oh, I wasn't watching across the street, particularly, Bertie, just looking out the window and wondering about the weather. Yeah, that's it. Hey, there goes another sofa. That's the third one they've unloaded. The first two was love seats. Well, even so, a sofa and two love seats. That's nothing. The man told me they got a whole nother van coming. Say, two van loads? That's a lot of furniture, Bertie. You don't suppose they're going to open a swap shop? That's Mr. Ransom. Must be at the back door. In here, Lila, in the living room. Well, I can't be standing here all day gawking at the neighbors. I've got work to do. Walk in the kitchen door. I hope you don't mind. Not at all. Ice man and the laundry man. They do the same. It's overhouse. They are all the same. They're all the same. They're all the same. Good morning, Lila. I was just... I know you don't need to tell me that's why I ran over. Isn't it exciting? Who are they? Do you know? I wonder what they paid for. Not much, I suppose. The place hasn't been lived in for so long. Well, I really don't know. I suppose I ought to go and call on them, but I thought I'd give them a day to get settled first. Who did you say they were? I didn't say. I don't know. Oh. All I know is the man has two children, a boy and a girl. Oh. I don't know. All I know is the man has two children, a boy and a girl. Oh. He has a wife thing. Naturally, I suppose so. I mean, she's living. As far as I know. And they're living together. I really couldn't say, Lila. I don't know anything about them. Well, I suppose I might just leave a calling card, except that nobody seems to understand about calling cards up north here. I left the card once, and the gentleman called up and made advices to me. Huh? He wanted me to have dinner with him when we hadn't even been introduced. It turned out to be a very dull dinner, too. Excuse me, Lila. Now, who could that be so early in the morning? You don't suppose it's the people from across the street? Pee-vee. You might just happen to be passing by now. Oh, good morning, my grandson. Good morning, Mr. T. He has Mr. T. Oh, she's just fine. Well, that is he.  I just happened to be passing on my way to the shop, Mr. Goldie-Sleeve, and I said to myself, I'll just drop in and see if there's anything Mr. Goldie-Sleeve needs in this pharmaceutical line. Well, that's very thoughtful of you, Pee-vee, but I don't quite understand. There's nothing I need that I know of. It's not. Well, I just thought I'd inquire. As I say, I just happened to be passing and I said to myself, I'll just drop in. Who's your new neighbor? Oh, so that's it. Well, that's Sean Devan across the street. I don't know him from Adam Peaty. I don't approve at all of what they're doing to the house, Mr. Pee-vee, to you. I think they're just ruining it. Well, I wouldn't say that. No roof never hurt anybody. Chopping off all that lovely old fancy work, I mean. Oh, but then perhaps I'm old fashioned. We love the old things and style. Well, I'll admit, I'm a little conservative myself when it comes to architecture. Well, I've been trying to get me to repaper the front hall for the last 10 years. But I say, let's get used to the paper we got first. I just hope those people aren't going to paint the house some hideous color, that's all. Well, if they do by George Leela, I'll put down all my front shades and use the back door. As it is, I've given the children orders not to go near the place. I heard it! Well, I must be going. Oh, it's you, Judge. Come in. Thank you. What is this? Well, Leela. Good morning, Judge. And Pee-vee. Quite a little gathering. Here, here, here, here, he's very record the 15th District Council. Well, let's get into you, Pee-vee.  Yeah, Leela, I see you have a new neighbor. You're not the first to discover it, Judge. Know who he is? No, but when I find out, I'm going to sue him. Sue him for what? A man deliberately backed a lumber truck on my lawn between 7 and 7.15 this morning. Oh, not yet. Cut it to ribbons. They tell me I haven't gone out to look at it yet. Well, forget it. Yeah, they forget it. You know who's bought the place? Rumson Bullard. Bullard? Is he one of the Bullards who owned the place originally? The eldest son. Yes, sir. He bought the old family estate. Coming back here to retire. Rumson Bullard. What kind of a name is that? What's the matter with it? Bullard's a good name. Always was. Rumson Bullard. I don't trust any man with a fancy first name like Rumson. Give me a man with a good, honest name like Fred or George. Oh, Schrockmann. All right, you old goat, there are exceptions. What do this guy, Bullard, ever do that makes him so great? Went to New York and made himself a cool millium. That's all. Huh? A million dollars, you say? Well, something like that. A hundred thousand, anyway. Enough to come back here and retire on. You don't say. A million dollars. That's more than I'm making a year. He would have to be married. And he's going to live right across the street from me. You fellas better be nice to me. You're thinking of suing him, Gildy?  Come along, TV. We better be getting downtown. Coming, Leela? I guess I'd better. Maybe I'll just leave a call back after all. Well, we'll be seeing you at the jolly boys tonight, Gildy. Uh, I'm afraid not, Judge. I'm afraid not. What do you know? Right across the street, too. Rumson Bullard. By George, he can drive up on my lawn any time. Oh, birdie. I was calling Birdie Leroy. Birdie, what's for dinner this evening? What do, Mr. Gildsley? Forget it, Birdie. Get a steak. Steak with olive points? Yep. We may very likely be having company for dinner this evening. Company? Who? Our new neighbors. Who do you think? You mean them people across the street? Certainly. After hard days moving, a good hearty dinner with some friendly neighbors would probably be welcome. I've said that before, and I'll say it again.  Gildy Slave will be with us again in just a few seconds. Have you been on the go lately working long hours and working extra hard at home or on the job? Well, if that's the case, you're using up extra energy. A mighty good way to replenish some of that energy, yes, and a mighty pleasant way, too, is to spread bread, toast, or rolls with delicious parquet margarine. Parquet has tops in food energy value, and you'll say it's tops in taste, too. Parquet's fresh, delicate flavor is welcomed every day in millions of American homes. In fact, millions of families prefer parquet margarine to any other brand. And remember, parquet is a vitamin fortified spread. Every single pound contains 9,000 units of important vitamin A. So be sure to buy this energy-packed spread that tastes so good. Ask for crafts parquet margarine, D-A-R-K-A-Y parquet margarine, made by class. Well, anyhow, whether he made it or married it or minted it, he's got money. How do you know, Mr. Gillespie? I saw his furniture. Two vans, chief. You don't say? Yes. Oil paintings with lights fastened onto the frames. And he... Just landscapes, Floyd. And old masters, I imagine. Most likely. Well, Mr. Gillespie, if you play your cards right, he might ask you over fatigue. You can wave your pinky and discuss the stock market. I'll stick to coke. How about a coke for you, Commissioner? Not just yet, thank you. If I were you, Floyd, I wouldn't make fun of people I don't know. Remember, it's no crime to be a millionaire. No crime to be a burglar unless they catch you. But I don't want to knock your friend. Any friend of yours, a friend of mine, Commissioner. Oh, is that so? That sounds fair enough, Mr. Gillespie. What I was saying before, I got a friend I'd like to bring into the club. You know Harry Dean? Harry Dean? No, who's he? Well, he's a businessman, a friend of mine. He plays a fair game of poker and he's a good baritone. He plays a guitar a little. Pleasant of fellas you'd want to meet. Well, let's declare a man. Now, wait a minute. Anybody else know this man? Do you know him, Judge? Never met him. Pee-Vee? I never had the pleasure. Chief? Sure, I know him. I had to close his place up once. Ah, chief. Quiet, Floyd. What kind of a place does he run? That fool room down on State Street. It's a billiard parlor. It's all the same. If the chief has had to close him up, we don't want him. Ah, now, Commissioner, let's not be narrow minded. What was the complaint, chief? Selling cigarettes to manners, but we couldn't prove anything. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. He don't do it now. He won't even sell them to me. I say we don't want a man in this club that runs a pool hall and sells cigarettes to kids. I guess that settles it, Floyd. Why does it? That's the way clubs are run, Floyd. One black bar. Stop saying that. No, Floyd, let's not get squabbling amongst yourselves. Who's squabbling? I only want to bring a friend into the club and all of a sudden he ain't good enough for Mr. Kilda's leave.  Oh, Harry's all right. Chief, you arrested him. Well, if I was the high head, all the people I ever arrested, I'd get pretty lonesome. That's a spirit, chief. Live and let live. How about you, Judge? Where do you stand? Well, I'm inclined to think Mr. Dean would be undesirable, Floyd. That's the stuff, Judge. Remember, Floyd, we might be wanting to ask Rumpton Bullard to join this club. We couldn't ask him if we had a jailbird up here. He's not a jailbird. But he's got a lot cleaner records than this millionaire if anybody knew the facts. Thank you not to insult my friends, Floyd. You're insulting mine. I am not. I only said he wasn't fit to be a member of this club. Well, that's an insult of I ever heard. Wow, Floyd. And if Harry can't join the club, you fellas can go find yourself another meet in place, that's all. Oh, Floyd, for heaven's sake. You're being unreasonable, Floyd. Maybe I am, but that's final. Let in Harry Dean or go find another spot with the features you got here. Run and water, lights, telephone, piano. That's a nice club, all right. Well, I know where we can get a club room and make this one look like 30 cents. I just remembered. There's a big room of a rums and bullets garage twice as big a room as this. You think he'd let us use it? Well, if I go to him as a friend and a neighbor and ask him to be a member, how can he refuse? Go ahead. The fellas I don't like this season. What else can we do, Chief? Floyd's being pigheaded. Look who's talking. Come on, fellas. Let's go over and see Bullard right away. He'd probably be tickled to death to furnish the room, especially for us. Put in a nice box, a real card table. And a piano that doesn't sound like a dishpan. Yeah. Well, who's with me? Why don't we patch this up, Mr. Gildersleeve? Floyd will abide by the Constitution. One black ball keeps a man out. We haven't any Constitution. You can get yourselves another hall. You heard him, Chief. Are you with me? Uh, no. I think I'll stay here, Mr. Gildersleeve. PB, are you with me or with Floyd? Yeah, who are you with, PB? Not voting. I ought to be getting home to Mrs. PB anyway. It's only eight o'clock. I know, but if I'm not where she thinks I am, she gets nervous. Well, come on, Judge. Come on, PB. Take a round, please. I really got to go, Floyd. But I'm not going with Mr. Gildersleeve. I'm just going at the same time. They're still unloading. I don't see any signs of bullets. You may be on the other side of the van or in the house. Well, I'll be running along, gentlemen. Good luck, Mr. Gildersleeve. You might as well wait a minute to see what he says, PB. Then maybe we can go up and see the room. Well, I... There he is now, Gildy. He's been there in the door, talking to the moving man. Why, George, big fellow, isn't he? He's been over six feet. Fine-looking man. Distinguished-looking. Well, he follows way here, and I'll go and introduce myself. Don't you want me to go with you? I am his neighbor, Judge. He doesn't want the whole town piling in on him all at once. But after it's all settled, I naturally I'll introduce you and Peter. All right. Uh, you got a comb for us? No, I haven't, I'm sorry.  Well, I guess, of course, he might ask me to come in. Oh, well, if he's as nice a fellow as I think he is, he'd be willing to overlook a few details. I'm sure he will. Yes. Well, here I go. How do you want this table, Mr. Bullard? Well, that goes in the front bedroom upstairs. Yes, sir. Pardon me, Mr. Bullard. Oh, what is it? Does this chair go the same place as the table? No, no, no. Let's see, that one goes in the living room. Yes, sir. One side, Mr. Bullard. Look where you're going. Moving men. Are you looking for me? Well, yes, I wanted to introduce myself. My name's Gilderslee, Brockmoreton P. Yeah? I'm the water commissioner here in Summerfield. Oh, I see. Well, I expect to be subscribed for the water in due time, Mr. Gilderslee. But it won't be necessary to sell me. Uh, I'm not here on business, Mr. Bullard. Oh, you're not? Well, I'm rather busy as you can see. So if you'll excuse me, I... I'm your neighbor across the street. I just came over to say hello. Oh, well, how are you? I'm ready for the piano and honest to Bullard. Yes, well, be careful.  Yeah, don't worry. I'd like to have you try my piano sometime, Mr. Bullard. It's a Wembley. Oh, that's all. Yes, sir. One side, Mr. Let me take the legs first. The living room? That's right. What I wanted to ask you, Mr. Bullard, we have a little club here in this town, just a few of us, the Jolly Boy Social Club. Oh, that's all. Hey, do you want it all by the window? Excuse me, Mr. Gilderslee, Brockmoreton P. Just put it along the wall. Which wall? The one with it. Oh, wait. I'll come up and show you. Well, about this club, Mr. Bullard, we thought that being new to the city or rather just having returned. Mr. Gilderslee, I wonder if we couldn't talk about this some other time. I'm trying to get this van unloaded. It'll only take a minute, Mr. Bullard. You see, we need a club room. Some other time, please. It'll only take a minute. I don't care. These moves are getting $17.77 an hour. See me next week. Or next year. Oh! Money, Grubber. No wonder he's admitted there. The place just ain't a quartet, that's all. Oh, I guess not. Yeah. I want to play a little car. Coke is no good with two people. Do you ever play casino? Hmm. I've played with a wife every once in a while. Yeah. That's kind of a game. Well, we can have another Coke anyway. Yeah, let's do that. Uh-huh. Kill the sleeve.  What do you want? I want to apologize. Well, I'll be done. Well, now ain't that nice? I want to apologize, too, Lord. Judge Hooker and Peevee. Thought you were going home, Peeve. I'm still on my way. Go ahead, Gilder. Say it. Huh? Oh. Well, Floyd, just want to say that I'm sorry we walked out on you. I'm sorry I opposed your friend, Mr. Dean. And I'm sorry I ever mentioned Mr. Dullard. Bullard. It's OK, Commissioner. Have a Coke. I want to echo everything my friend Mr. Gilder's leave has said, Floyd. It's OK. Have a Coke. Yeah, yeah, let's all have one. Come on, Peevee. Well, just one for the Lord, is that OK? Wait a minute. Before we drink it, it's understood that Floyd's friend, Harry Dean, is unanimously elected to the membership in our club. That's right. Oh, now, fellas, I've been thinking about that. I was wrong. Clubs shouldn't have anybody in it. The other members don't know. Oh, Floyd, I insist. I insist. We all insist. Then I'll blackball him. Well, he takes one, you know. By George, you're all right, Floyd. A jolly boy through and through. Well, here's to Floyd. For he's a jolly good fellow. For I'm a jolly good fellow. He was over here a little while ago. He seemed real nice. Mr. Bullard, what did he want? He wanted to borrow some candles. No electricity over there. Candles? Some nerve. He asked me if I knew where he could get a good cook. And he said he'd be willing to pay a pretty good money. Oh, he did, eh? Listen, Bernie, I want to tell you something mighty important. I've made this the guiding principle of my whole life. What's that? Money is not everything. Oh. And don't think I've forgotten about papering your room, either. Yes. A flint. Well, we'll see about it. Good night, Bernie. Good night, everybody. Music on this program was directed by Clark Swig. This is Ken Carpenter. This is for the Crab Cheese Company. Makers of Clark A. Marger. And a complete line of famous quality food products. Crab and vibe children listen again next week for the further adventures of the Great Gilders League. Now something special for the children. We mean those very special treats you make with Pabstet, the delicious golden cheese food. Pabstet is nourishing, easily digested, and you can serve it in a hundred or more tempting ways. Children like Pabstet melted into a smooth, luscious sauce, drenching macaroni, vegetables, eggs, or fish with mellow cheddar cheese goodness. Dates or prunes stuffed with Pabstet make grand appetizing salad. And for a delightful after-school snack, you're sure to satisfy hungry appetites. 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Great to have you back here on the breakfast on plus TV Africa now Let's go to off the press where we have a quick review of the major stories making headlines across Nigeria today I'm kicking off with the punch newspapers just before we introduce our guests should be a screen in a bit and The big one there is talking about the loan request once again. It says National Assembly Defends Buhari's four point nine billion dollars loan plan APC PDP clash over debt All countries engage in deficit financing. We're still within borrowing limits as the Senate Buhari's loans for budget financing not for looting as done by PDP says the ruling party And also says the APC borrowing to finance corrupt lifestyles of his leaders and their cronies alleged the PDP AGF writes 36 governors hints recovery of stamp duty areas and We can also see on the punch this morning bread cereals and others push Food inflation to twenty point three zero percent Nigeria powers up two point three six trillion Naira debt stock in three months also Southern secessionist not different from Boko Haram and I swap says but you'll be a miller I'll be on my eyes for the government's eighty three point five billion our loan for Ogun cargo airport and others Gone men invade Lagos farmhouse kidnapped businessman should pass a buy and the lecturer Sue's song will loop and CP over my COVID-19 test demands 65 million our damages other stories on the punch reps demand probe of customs killings in all your communities and Reconstruction of Otabel Kota road will cost 56 billion Naira says fascia la that's all we can take on the punch this morning Let's go to the daily independent newspaper Europe bad nation agitators bond with iPop worries presidency But Javier Mila said separation is leading nation to destruction says reps to prioritize effort at firming security architecture Above the headline on the daily independence Unibend students kidnapped VC kidnapped in quote Fast how to receive decision on school closure Strike federal government doctors negotiation ends in deadlock Passport seizure ex-rivers governor oddily on EFCC watch list immigration tells court inflation records fifth decline in 2021 drops to seventeen point zero one percent in August Ninja records hundred cholera cases cholera deaths in four months Minister says Nigeria would lift the ban on Twitter in a few days PPP national convention Southwest leaders make strong demand for chairman slot federal government okay, 38.4 billion Naira road projects in Anambra, Binri by Elsa others Southeast National Assembly caucus to interface with federal government others over Namdi Kano All right, so now moving on from the punch to or the daily independence to the leadership Newspapers it says here North Southeast eye presidential ticket Southwest six-party chairmanship Consultations on zoning intensify who going committee begins sitting today It says new chairman can't assume office until secondest leaves or resigns Also strike federal government and the resident doctors agreed to negotiate COVID-19 adobe as unvaccinated workers from offices Okon Joe Weller mixed times world's most 100 most influential people and Also, I quite bum in a blue ocean sign anti-open grazing laws federal government to states no stamp duty recoveries for five years and also Nigeria's that hits 35.5 trillion Naira as APC defends borrowing Let's not take a look at the daily Trust newspaper Naira's free fall continues as an endurance rush to hold dollars one dollar sales at five hundred and 65 Naira Citizens opts for foreign goods at all cost Government officials elites in rush for Forex coys spent 55 billion dollars on foreign consultant and workers 2023 North set to pick PDP ticket as Southwest leaders demand shaman ship Nigeria's debt profile hits 35.4 trillion Naira stamp duty Malami rights 36 governors says no recoveries How fighter jets killed locals in UB state? And those are the stories are looking at this morning. Good morning to our guests public affairs analysts. Mr. Ezekiel. Yeah, I talk Good morning always Pleasure to be on plus TV Africa I want us to begin with the top story on, you know, the punch in his paper And it's about the loan that President Muhammad Abu Hari has written the Senate for he wants to borrow 4.9 billion dollars and it says that's to fund our 2022 budget and that's also to fund infrastructure project across All local government areas of the state The National Assembly is defending the president saying that the Senate is saying that all countries engage in borrowing and debt Financing and they were still within our borrowing limits But the PDP is saying that, you know, this borrowing is just to fund the corrupt lifestyles of Nigeria's president and you know the leadership What do you think? I I'm actually extremely worried really really concerned as Well, those of us that are November 1 out of the 58 so those of us on the higher side We we think of what our children are going to see in future and it bothers me You know, and it also bothers me that a lot of the people in government are people that are far older than myself So my idea 70s and it's I see these guys just don't care about the younger generation It's like let's make our name. Let's do whatever we can do now so that we can make our name Not withstanding that the prognosis the higher implications of the actions when you borrow you borrow to repay and I want to see the end game plan of this administration on repayment of our debt and they keep talking about Infrastructure infrastructure infrastructure To a very great extent this makes sense if the infrastructure is put with first You know emphases on the people In which case we're talking in terms of human capital development. I wish that my government Was borrowing this amount of money to ensure that every single primary school child Introduced to ICT Going into secondary school. They are well equipped for the future and that every Nigerian student in every Statuary institution has a laptop a personalized specialized laptop where programming is Made compulsory whether you read religion you read linguistics. You read history.  You read medicine Doesn't matter. You must understand programming because the Nigerian system has been able to look into the next four years six years ten years 15 years and realize that I Ct is the way of the future and then the President is no longer Minister of Petroleum But Minister of ICT, you know, then we can see a thinking of the future of our children But all these though we are borrowed to be infrastructure real program whether it's going to matter about is going to wherever I'm not I'm not okay. I'm not satisfied. So the explanation of oh, we are still within the threshold is pedestrian It doesn't make sense and I think the time has come for us as Nigerians to wise up to take our future in our hands and to determine the leadership trajectory that we must take The time has come when we must start to settle for cerebral governance This political governance has given all that title of the poverty capital of the world The time has come for the youth to wake up and decide what they want their future to be like This is not about protests forget about protests. I'm not it. I'm not a fan of protest It's a time for strategic thinking to ask themselves who is the next leader that we must have let's start from now and change the conversation all right Still on the punch newspapers something pretty interesting on the top right corner. It says from whether be a Mila Southern secessionist not different from Boko Haram and I swap Do you agree? I find that insulting. I find that infuriating. I find that I would say intellectually lazy How can a man at that level make such a statement? It means they have no understanding what so ever of the problem He has no clue as to what is going on. Please. What is the Boko Haram statement? What are they looking for? my understanding is that The Southwest agitators the Southeast agitators are saying Nigeria is not accommodating us on equal partner basis If we cannot be equal partners, let us Have no basis to be a nation Let us go away. That is the bottom line and then a man at the level of the speaker of the House of Representatives of the Federal Republic of Nigeria Says that that mentality is the same mentality as Boko Haram philosophy or ideology. I Need to be schooled. He needs to come back and let me understand what Boko Haram is because my layman's understanding of Boko Haram to start with is that Western education is seen is wrong is bad And then you equate that with a man who says guys if we are a country let us be equal And if we are can we cannot be equal then let us have our way My brother you guys are in the media. Maybe you know better, but please tell me that those two things are the same I don't think so How dangerous is the narrative like that, you know, and how does this maybe also Absolutely preposterous it infuriating it is disappointing It is difficult for me to not believe that he's been quoted out of context I believe that there must be a context that that has been taken up because I know by Jaby Elmila I know him one-on-one and I know he's cerebral. I know he thinks right. I don't know How that came about but please let him come to the public very early enough and put that record straight That did not come from him Okay, when we look through the papers, we see a story here and that's about a an alleged You know attack by the Nigerian army fighter jets on a community in Yobes state and You know on the daily trust it says how fighter jets killed locals in Yobes and the picture there is very graphic We can see people who have been injured You can see people in a makeshift hospital line on the floor with blood on their backs and you can see doctors They're carrying out, you know minor surgeries on those on those persons and when I took a closer look at the story we see that This actually happened in Yobes state. It's in unisari local government area of Yobes state Buhari community and Local say that they were getting ready to go to the market on Wednesday morning when they suddenly heard the sound of a jet ahead You know above and then it started to shell on the citizens, you know firing at them and nine people died and so many others Sustained injuries, you know in that community. They're sick in treatment now medical attention as a government health facility in gay dam And you know they reached out to the Nigerian army the acting spokesman of the Nigerian army Said that they were yet to receive any report about that incident And it's not the first time that we're hearing something like this that you know There's a alleged bombardment of a community by army forces What's your commentary on this? Mr. Yeah, I talk I don't know where to start with first my my my heart goes out to the civilians or the other people involved That's number one number two is that Sometimes they could be a malfunction on radar tracking device in the sense that maybe the coordinates were not put Right as a result. They went to a wrong target The third is that the conspiracy theory is right in the end, you know, that they are fourth column or fifth columnists You know within the army within the military generally in which case they could do one or two things to just make people to go Against the military those could do those are conspiracy theories But basically my most disappointment is with the spokesperson Who is telling me that something that genius happens and they are yet to get intelligence I Refuse that statement completely Within minutes of such a thing happening The military intelligence must have a red alert a flag Okay On if they don't then there's a major major major problem within ten minutes maximum Of so because there is a tracking, you know It's not about one one one soldier walking along the street and you know and firing sporadically Before any jet takes off. It's not something they do every day They must be a very detailed Operational dynamics that is set up. Are you telling me that one pilot just got into the aircraft and you like a fleet of cars Takes off, you don't know where it's going to and then you're wondering where is this guy? Where's not this guy? I expect that every every every a craft that takes off is Monitor and track at the highest level and any mishap get immediate intel and then the body that the System or the the organization gets what is going on and this is something that happened How long ago I think it's it doesn't doesn't make the the military look good. It doesn't at all. All right, let's also talk about The economy it's in the news at Nigeria's inflation records Fifth decline in 2021. It says it drops to 17.01% in August The reactions to the to this story have been you know, but pretty different Most people are saying that you know, you might you know put those figures out But if it doesn't reflect in the lives of the average Nigerian, then you know, it may not be true or factual You know, we live in a country where we really don't appreciate the place of statistics statistics is very important Absolutely important and it is within the context where you use statistics for planning But when you use statistics of politics It means that you are going to give me figures That are going to like em rattle my brain because I can't seem to by time the inflation is figures are declining First session the second one the third one. It will be obvious that certain things are being done, right? and those things reflect on the lives of the people The average person should feel that yeah, things are getting better But I don't go to the market. I will I will agree But I have constant discussion with my family with my wife with my children with the people I meet And none of them is telling me that the price of goods are coming down None of them is telling me that things are getting better. None of them is telling me that oh Yeah, I can feel some good here and there and yet the the figures are telling me something else I'm not a statistician But something tells me that if things are getting better It should reflect in the life of the average man and the average man that I relate to it on a daily basis They are not telling me that story. So I don't know how to just oppose those They are they are their figures. I think I think is because it's the annual inflation Comparing this yet last year, but the month-to-month inflation, you know has increased Oh Do you also think that your Nigerians are too anxious to see that difference because you know, we're still talking double-digit here Would you know the effects become more obvious when we maybe get a single digital inflation figures When a man is in the theater in ICU You don't talk about anxiety. He's constantly anxious So Nigerians are in the intensive intensive care unit. So we're constantly anxious We just want something that tells us that oh, we are improving. So we're asking the doctor, you know What's going on? And then you want the doctor to come in and you tell them, oh the numbness in my right hand has subsided Okay, that's what you want to tell it and the doctors say oh because of the medicine we gave you yesterday That's what you want. You want to feel something and then tell the doctor. Oh, I'm feeling better And the headache has gone down. We want something we want Nigerians to say Oh, we are feeling better. We are happier Let them get Nigerians. Let the government borrow money to invest on human capital development Let them go. Let them just play down on infrastructure. Don't play down small Let them just cool down. For instance, if the unreal line to maraba or whatever is not done Nobody will die But if there's something that you bring about, you know, to improve the the living standard of the Man on the street by way of health care by way of housing by way of education I think Nigerians will feel better and then successive governments can go more on the infrastructure All right. Thank you. I took um on on the papers this morning, especially on the daily independence There's a story here By line mohammed saying that Nigeria would lift the ban on twitter in a few days We've been talking about this for a while The minister has been making promises back and forth that the twitter ban will be lifted very soon He's been saying this, you know, he gave twitter a list of terms and conditions They have to register with the ncc have a local office in Nigeria But we keep seeing these promises. Well, but it seems that you know, it seems to elude us We've heard another one today. Nigeria to live twitter ban in a few days How soon should we be expecting this and do you see this as a possibility really? You know, my friend my friend told me that his father told him something and I find it very instructive He said may the man who is always trusted never lie against you May the man who is always trusted never lie against you Okay, very instructive the reverse is the case may the man who is never trusted Not be put in a position to speak for the government May the man who is never trusted Never be put in a position to speak for the government I I think that uh, my my my brother is a lie mohammed Needs to ask himself one question. Do Nigerians believe me when I talk the jury is out there Okay, all right um quickly also share your thoughts on the um Anti opum grazing bills that have been signed in certain parts of the country acquire bomb in Inugu and I think in Oshun states Governors seem to be going ahead with their agreements for the 1st of september and um, you know making whatever moves up necessary to protect their people Let me let me say this first. If you don't talk about conjure. Well, I mean, I'm not going to Yes, I want to salute the government of acquire bomb state Who have taken that bold step? I want to salute the government of other states that have also done that I believe that um, it's a right thing to do. I have said it before and I say it again I believe that senbisa forest should not be a threat to us anymore Let the government pull all the money they can from everywhere and invest in turning that That nightmare of Nigerians into the future hope of Nigeria by investing I'm moving every cattle rara and giving them space they put in state of the art infrastructure Because those who are Nigerians I'm always careful to draw that line the Nigerian headsmen They have a right to life and living and they're doing business And just as government supports some other businesses that are done There was a time they gave grants to transporters and things like that. These headsmen they are Nigerians take some bisa forest Pull down the whole system and structure and give them state of the art facilities for them to raid your cattle there Then let the states be able to manage their own resources and so that they're no longer all these clashes and Problems so I welcome what the states are doing and particularly my state They've moved swiftly and I I applaud them for that. All right. Go ahead and speak now in celebration of You know two things first is that There is this agitation Or this seeming Cooperation between the the southwest agitators and the southeast agitators and people are worried They should not be worried The reason is that what I talked about this is that I went with madame okonjo We're allowed to the wall bank to talk about them housing for Nigeria and one of the things that came up was the land use act When we got there world bank itself say Don't bother trying to change it. You will not And madame okonjo. Well, I was one that led that delegation Instead they said walk around it. Walk around it What's instructive is that if people will not allow restructuring to take place Officially and formally people are starting to walk around it. What you're starting to see is That comes out and you're talking in terms of fiscal federalism What you're looking at is that the southwest agitators are starting to come with the southeast agitators And they're starting to say how can we come together and create a platform where we are equal partners So instead of just allowing this fight to go on why don't we sit down as a nation and look at the fundamentals of nationhood Of one of the pillars being justice equity fairness Once we do that, then we would have No taking the wind off the sail of the agitators. This is just commonsensical and it is also right and constitutional Let it be fairness equity But on madame okonjo. We are like I've worked very closely with her and I continue to do that till today And I find out somebody that has made us proud in more ways than one She's a sickler for excellence. She sits on her job She gets the job done. She is target driven. She is fair minded And when she made me the chairman of the federal government 10 000 housing project She the minister was there. She said if I want this project to succeed I want to have the best there and as far as housing is concerned where is architect yaito That guy has made us proud. I want him to anchor this Unfortunately, it was at the tail end of their program and they had to leave But why did she look for architect yaito? She said she wants the best in whatever she does and that's where she is She doesn't care whether you're from the north south east or west She just wants round holes in round pegs in round holes square holes in square pegs And she has taken that to the world state and has told the world that a nigerian She typifies it average nigerian that nigerians Are the best and they know what to do go to any country of the world Look at the top management of any organization to find that the excellence factor there is a nigerian My prayer is that we will bring this excellence factor to be in our country and read all these politicians And bringing cerebral governance people that can turn nigeria around Nigeria can be a different story in less than four years And that is a fact on account of that I want to hail my boss And really really tell her that I'm so proud of her every nigerian every african every woman in the world is proud of her and God bless her Thank you very much. Mr. Ezekiel yaito appreciate your analysis anytime any day. Have a great one Thank you Okay, when I'm going back to history and I'm looking at the year 1932 today the september The 16th of september and it's when a prominent figure in india began a protest fast And of course i'm focusing here in nigeria on something called national identity day We're talking about that after this very short break


The European Union says the expulsion of France's ambassador to Mali is unjustified and will lead to the country being further cut off from member states. And Monday, Mali gave the French ambassador 72 hours to leave the country after hostile and outrageous comments by former Colonel-Power France about his transitional government. French government Foreign Minister Jean Le Dran had said that Mali's junta was out of control amid escalating tensions between the West African state and its European partners following two coups. The Mali government's request for the immediate withdrawal of the French ambassador in Bamako is unjustified and will further alienate Mali from its European partners. The EU stands in solidarity with France and also with Denmark, whose contingent had been subject to a decision to leave. The current situation requires respect for commitment and dialogue on the part of the Mali authorities and the negative spiral in which they have engaged can only be detrimental to the stability of the Mali itself, but also to the region.