This episode of the podcast is supported by Audible. You can download and listen to the world's best storytelling. I use it all the time to inform work. You can listen to audiobooks, original series and more on their free app. To get your free 30 day subscription, which includes a free book, click on the link in our show notes and enjoy. Hey folks, welcome to the podcast. Today I was joined by a great guy, Arjun Sofat, who is the CEO and founder of FreeSoul and they do way protein, well not just way, but protein for the female market. And it's great to hear how he started his business, why he always wanted to be an entrepreneur and all of the challenges he's faced since starting. So raising cash, marketing, using the various social media platforms, finding some co-founders as well. So really, really cool and I hope you enjoy the story. Hey, it's Lewis. Welcome to the podcast. Enjoy our conversations anytime, anywhere.  Arjun, thank you very much for coming in. Thank you for having me on. Pleasure, pleasure. We've just been chatting over coffee and we've realized that we've probably spent most of our life around about the same places. We have. Radler, Happy Dashes, Watford. The exciting ends. Yeah. So you went to school in Habs? I did, went to Habs. I was there from 13 to 18, very intense, but played a lot of sport. Nice. Pricot in particular, which is how I know your friend Stuart. Yeah.  Cool. I like to say that I'm still playing, although I'm much lower standard, which is part of the aging process, I guess. You need to keep up that fitness. I think so, yeah, yeah. I've tried to keep it up. Oh, how so? So I do, I diarise my fitness, because you've got to be really structured nowadays. You just get so busy with work. Yeah, yeah. And most of my friends, and if they're listening, I don't care, they're completely out of shape. Right. So I do CrossFit, Okay, yeah, of course. Which is like this American weightlifting, calisthenics and stuff. Full body, yeah. And I do that like, say, three times a week. I do yoga once a week. Very nice. Good for mobility. Amazing for mobility. And you can have a little meditation in there and stuff. And then I do running. So marathons and half-marathons. Wow. So I had a high standard then. Well, I didn't say I was good at it. I tried. So I book in like a marathon or half-marathon, like maybe a couple a year. And it gives me a goal to train for. That's why I'm looking this good. And I have a bit of protein as well. Brilliant, I hope you're choosing wisely on that protein source. Absolutely, yeah. What about, what's your, what about you? Training-wise? Yeah. So for me, obviously, there are physical benefits. You're getting better shape, but I mainly do it because it sets my day up nicely. So I'm up at 5.30 pretty much every day. I'm in the gym by six, done by seven, in the office by eight. Perfect. And it just sets the day up really nicely. So I tend to do weights about four times a week, force myself to do cardio once a week, and then something sport-related once a week. So cricket or? Cricket, tennis, badminton. But the sports stuff will tend to be on the weekend. I think it just breaks up your day nicely. Yeah, yeah. That's great. And what about for your mind? Do you find this like really good for a mindset? To be honest, that's pretty much why I do it. It's a great discipline and it gets you in a routine. So the better I work in the gym, the better I work in the office. And that's sort of my motivation. Plus it allows you to sort of eat a little bit more flexibly, which is a perk. So you're quite strict with your diet or? Pretty strict, yeah, pretty strict. I'm transitioning into a vegan diet right now. And so just being able to make that transition, I think, requires you to be on your nutrition. So you're just conscious of what you're eating, because I just feel that if you're in the gym, you're working hard. You want to be kind of doing justice to that through what you eat. Definitely. So yeah, I'm putting up for that. And why are you transitioning to a vegan diet? I'm choosing me from eating meat, right? Yeah, exactly. So it went from eating meat to becoming vegetarian and now cutting out dairy. And the reason really is it's a mixture of a few things. One is obviously animal welfare. There's been so much more information about kind of what happens in that whole farming process. But also for the environment. So a vegan diet, there's a lot of research behind it that suggests it's kind of to the environment. And so it's a whole sort of plethora of different reasons. I also feel better when I cut out meat and dairy. And so for those reasons, I'm transitioning. So you feel better when you're not eating meat? Oh, for sure. You just feel lighter. And a lot of people will say kind of where do you get your protein from? Well, luckily, that's not an issue for me. It's interesting. Interesting companies now that make meat in the lab. Exactly, yeah. If one came on the podcast, they're called High Estate. So they make meat. Exactly, yeah. So you take a little bit of blood from a cow or pig, whatever, grow it in the lab. 99% less water, et cetera. Really? Yeah, you can make fish as well. Really? So overall, going forward, it feels like that's the way that we're going to be eating. Absolutely. Would you eat that meat, right? Nothing's been killed. I mean, given that nothing's been killed, I haven't done any sort of research on that. It's on the process, but provided there's no sort of animal downside, then I mean, I'd be open to looking into it for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's great. Because also the problem is, I mean, really, the problem is there's so many humans in the planet. Yeah. Because farmland for animals, but also farmland for vegetables. Absolutely, yeah. So if we're all, say we're all vegan eating plant-based stuff, it's still bad for the environment. So it would be nice to get to a point where we're making this stuff. Absolutely, yeah. Which would be awesome. Oh, it would be brilliant. A lot happening in the background to kind of figure out that whole puzzle and a little come to the surface fairly soon, hopefully. Definitely, definitely. Really interesting. And your product is all vegan. Well, we have a vegan line and a dev. Let's get into it. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So after uni, so you went into banking? I did. Took the investment banking route. I was in the M&A team, so the hours were very, very long, but it was fun. I mean, the learning curve is steep, but what you take away from that is a lot of knowledge, a lot of discipline, good work ethic. So I don't regret it whatsoever. It was a fantastic couple of years. But during that time, my dad actually had a very serious health scare and that prompted my mom to take exercise as a stress outlet. And along with that exercise came the taking seriously of nutrition. And she started taking these protein shakes to go with the exercise that was supposedly for women. But I would look into these shakes and there wasn't really anything in the ingredients that made it justifier before the female market. And alongside that, they had these brands which were very demeaning and just talked about weight loss or skipping meals. And it was a fairly unhealthy message that they were pushing. And I felt that was wrong for both fronts. And so that's the stage I quit my job and started working with a guy called Dr. Adam Gunnliffe. And he's the nutritionist behind all of the innovation in free soul. So we developed these blends over the course of a year that actually impacted female wellbeing through hormonal balance, bone density, energy, collagen production, and also impacts the menstrual cycle because it's very high in iron. Amazing. And alongside that, we developed a brand that was genuinely empowering in the same way that if you look at Nike, you walk into Nike's down, you feel like an athlete. And I think that's such a fantastic thing. And so we developed a brand that made you feel good about yourself, which is sort of where the name Free Soul comes about. And so that's the kind of mini story linking to banking. Love it, love it. Had you always wanted to be an entrepreneur? Oh, for as long as I can remember. Really? And banking was an education piece. I sort of looked at it as a post-UNI kind of military training thing. Right. So, yeah, as for as long as I can remember. Whip you into shape, get you in. Oh, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, did you do anything before that? Are you just been... Business wise? Yeah. So, on both my mom's side of the family and my dad's side of the family, everyone is into business. All my uncles, my aunts, my grandmother still runs her own business, my grandfather's still running his own business. And so it's what I've grown up seeing. Yeah. And so just naturally, it's what excites me and gets me up in the morning. And even during my time in banking, I'd look at these companies as businesses, not just clients of a bank, and try and understand sort of how the big machine works. And that's what I find exciting. So...  Or did you always see it as... I'll do it until I can think of a cool idea to... Yeah, I think before quitting, I naturally did some commercial analysis looking at the market size, the opportunity, capital that would be required, returns, valuations, all that sort of thing. And after assessing all of those things, that's when I made the leap to quit. So it was both, you have to think with your heart, but also the mind has to come into the equation for sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And what's it been like? It's been great.  It's exciting because you're on the front line and pushing the growth forward. And so it's very, very exciting. Obviously more stressful in a different way because you're looking after more parts naturally until you've grown out your team. So you started on your own? Yeah. Initially, I was just on my own. And so I was head of finance, head of marketing, head of ops, CEO, head of the cleaning department, all of it, yeah. And where did you get the product made? So it's all made in the UK. So like I said, Adam, the nutritionist, I worked with him to formulate the products, but then we found manufacturers in the UK that could meet our specific requirements and manufacture at high quality. Nice.  I just think the quality that you can produce has much higher, the regulations are more strict, which means that you're sourcing higher quality ingredients. And so you can just control that supply chain and make sure your standards are where they need to be if it's on home turf. Great. It's whey protein. Whey and pea and white hemp. So we have a vegan line and we have a dairy line. So the whey is produced here as well as the vegan lines. What's white hemp? White hemp is a form of hemp protein. So it's got a really strong amino acid profile, which is why we add it in with a pea protein. So most of the others not white hemp? So what do you get like white hemp and? And regular hemp. And just regular hemp. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The difference is really the amino acid profile. Ah, okay, fine. And you're doing much CBD stuff. It's an interesting area. Yeah, yeah. I think the issue right now is that it's classified as a novel food. And so the regulation isn't too clear. A novel food. Something along those lines, the MHRA is kind of a bit gray on CBD. And so it's not clear what's gonna happen in the short, medium, or long-term regarding regulations. And so it's definitely an interesting product. The research is interesting. But I just think for us to release something CBD related would be a bit premature given the regulations. Everyone seems to be on this bandwagon. Exactly. Get like champagne, chocolate. Yeah, exactly. I mean, which is interesting. Let's see where it all develops. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think it will ultimately become more and more popular, I think. Yeah, I think so. It's already becoming so mainstream. You walk into Holland and Barrett, they have a whole aisle dedicated to CBD.  Okay. I use the oil just like a few drops before bed. It's quite good also after the gym. Is it really? Yeah, it's an anti-inflammatory, pain relief. Yeah. It helps you sleep a little bit. I mean, who knows, right? But I guess it's like taking vitamins. I mean, I thought it was classified as a health food, but not really, I guess. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I just think there needs to be a bit of stability on the regulation side before looking at it more seriously. So at least that's how we're thinking about it. But definitely a very cool product. Yeah. And the industry you're in is very cool. So like health foods and nutrition. So how have you managed to stand out from all the other protein? Yeah, I think it's a mixture of innovation when it comes to the actual ingredients. So creating products that actually have an impact on wellbeing and it's not just brand and it's got backing from one of the most senior clinical nutritionists in the UK. And so from a product perspective, we definitely stand out. But then on a brand perspective, that's really what people are engaging and that's a constant process of work, working with individuals that represent your brand, that believe in it, and really marketing that correctly. And so it's a mixture of the two. And I think that process of creating a brand that makes people feel a certain way is extremely hard to replicate and also constant innovation on our new product lines. It's a real mixture of those three elements. And you're using social media a lot to get the message out and... Yeah, absolutely. Social media, paid media. Influences and... Yeah, exactly. It's a mix. We don't do one thing. I think what you have to constantly do is test marketing channels to see where your return is coming from and then double up there. But it's not a finished process. That's always changing. It's a trial, error, try things. Exactly. It's just a series of constant experiments and getting more and more granular with each one. Yeah. Have you found Instagram as being your main platform or one of the main platforms? One of, certainly not the most. Like I said, it's a real mix. So we're also at shows. We go to shows where we actually get to meet a lot of our customers, which is how we gather data. But given my background in banking, we take a very data-driven approach to every single thing that we do. And so the amount of data we use, the analysis, we actually run regression models based on the data points that we have. And based on that, we know where to spend our budget. Awesome. So it's a mix, a real mix. So you sell via your website? Yes. Which I have up now, which is very cool. Oh, thank you so much. And then you also do wholesale? So you sell to... We do. Yeah, so we're in super drug boots, Revital, Argos, Selfridges, various independent stores. Nice. How did you find the process of getting into these places? You know, a lot of people will say, oh, it was a tough process, there's that in the other end. Of course, there's a lot of hard work involved, but actually the guys that we met in retail and that we've been working with have been wonderful. I think when they back the brand and they believe in the product, the whole process becomes a lot more smooth. And so there's a lot of work involved. It's definitely a longer sort of process than selling on e-com. Yeah, yeah. But no, it's a great thing. And you find that you do more wholesale than... No, we're more direct to consumer for sure. Nice. Or via your website? Via our website, yeah, for sure. Retail's fantastic, we're doing well in retail, but direct to consumers where we can have the most impact in a more condensed time. Yeah. But we absolutely work with our retailers. I think a lot of people will take the approach that you know what, we're going to retail, but we're just going to push D2C. For us, we'd like to work with our retailers to make sure that they're selling well and we're selling well. It's just a function of that, that we happen to be selling more on D2C. But no, we sell well across. So you've actually invested a lot of time building your direct model? Absolutely, yeah.  Was it really? I set up a fashion brand. Well, I was a distributor actually. So I worked in the fashion sector a lot and over the last 20 years, you've really seen new brands such as yourselves and others really focusing more on direct. Sure.  Absolutely, yeah. You can make the sale at a high margin and then they might do it somewhere else. Sure. So it's cool starting something new and doing what you're doing because ultimately the value for you is people coming to your website engaging with you and buying the product. For sure. I mean, it's definitely a bit of both. So if the buying experience works better for an individual that, say, lives opposite boots and we're stocked in boots, that's totally fine. We want to make that as frictionless as possible to make sure that our rate of sale is where it needs to be in store. And for us, ultimately, it is selling the product through different avenues. And so there is the argument as well of overall volumes, blended margin and how you kind of make sense of that whole process and we have done. Cool, awesome. And are you just selling in the UK? We sell to 40 countries now. Wow, nice. Mainly through our website. So it's been such an exciting process and it's very cool to kind of see people upload pictures of our product when they're sat in Hawaii or sat across the states. So yeah, very cool. Very cool. Did you focus on marketing? No, internationally, it's been 100% organic. So we don't spend any money abroad at the moment. Although that will soon change. And they've just come inbound. I think that's the beauty of social media that it's not restrictive to one mass of land. You can sort of see it from anywhere, which is great. And how have you found setting up this distribution to different countries? That, to be honest, is not the most challenging bit because nowadays the infrastructure to get that done is so simple and so affordable that you can ship to the other side of the world for less than a tenner. So that part of it is totally fine. I think it's more about generating sustainable demand in more than one region, which is the more involved part. Have you found that to be the main challenge you've faced? Not just yet because we haven't taken international markets as seriously as the UK. Like I said, that's going to change very soon. But I suppose we'll find out when we do that. But so far it's been okay. What have you seen as the stages? You started on your own with your nutritionist. And you were doing everything. At what point did you start identifying positions that you wanted filled and really started to build your business? I built out a really, really involved cash flow model day one before we started trading. And so I knew when we'd need to make various hires. Obviously that's up for tweaking and naturally it changes. And it's a fairly constant work stream. So even kind of the day before we're planning out our hires for next year. And that's different to what we anticipated in pre-launch. But naturally that happens. So I knew after certain revenue levels or to get certain revenue levels, we'd need certain people that are better than me in certain positions. So that's what we've done. Also, and so how long's it been now? We've just done two years. Wow. So we had a bit of a celebration and it was a lot of fun. So although it feels like longer. Yeah. It feels like longer. Although time flies. It's a bit of a weird one. Yeah, yeah.  You just got to be on it, right? Oh, for sure. And it just... Seven day work week. It just goes. It really does. Yeah, it really does. And my gray hairs have been sprouting up a bit more. You've got a lot less than I have. Oh really? In fact, you've got a lot more hair than I have. Is it what you expected it would be? I'm not sure actually. I think when you're so in the midst of things it's hard to sort of remember your expectations. I think actually it's been a lot more fun than I thought it would be. Just the purpose of being able to go into the office with that purpose. And as long as the growth is there you're enjoying that process and which it has been. So yeah, it's been... I think it's been better than what I thought it would be which is great. And you sound very organized. Planning and everything. Have you found it that it's gone to plan? Because nowadays you find it. People do two, three, five year plans or whatever. But you find nowadays long term is six months almost. Oh, exactly, yeah. You're finding that it's really quite dynamic and... It's very dynamic. And it depends on the business avenue and the sales avenue. So for Econ we split up our months into sprints and different sprints will last different periods of time. So typically it'll be a week, two weeks but it'll be part of a larger overarching strategy. So that we can plan for the next 12 months, et cetera. But the work is actually broken down into weeks. And so every week there'll be kind of new processes happening to drive sales forward and drive growth. And that keeps you on your toes, which is a lot of fun. Nice. And you have a nice support structure around you. So mentors or anyone that you lean on for advice. Absolutely, yeah. As you all the family members are doing their own thing. So we're actually backed by NatWest and we're part of their incubator program. And we just got kind of promoted to their scale-up portion. Nice. Which has been a fantastic process of getting in there. I was actually talking to NatWest about a finance arrangement just so we could sort of deal with some of the retail side of the business.  You should actually talk to the guys in the scale-up portion of NatWest. They've just opened up this entrepreneurship program. Why don't you come in for an interview? Interview was great. Just ended up chatting for a long time. They're impressed with the business and the scale. And so they've hosted us in their office space, which is fantastic, but beyond that, they give us access to mentors, to acceleration managers. And they sort of coach young entrepreneurs and give them a lot of support, which has been fantastic. Amazing. And so you have access to mentors there. And I think the value needs to be, you can't really know your mentor beforehand. That would be an ideal situation because then they're very objective. Wait, so they just give you someone? You can apply. So they have sort of almost a database of various mentors. And so you can approach them. You can talk to kind of your acceleration manager, which who is assigned to you about getting in touch with all of these different people. But even just talking to founders, I think that's one of the most fantastic things because they can relate to what you're going through. They will be facing similar challenges or maybe challenges that you haven't faced or challenges that you've overcome. And so it's a real mutually beneficial process there. Brilliant. And they give you office space as well. They do, yeah. So we're based in Angel, right in the center of London. Fantastic office space. Fifth floor, near Kings Cross. Nice. Yeah, it's awesome. And it must be nice to have somewhere to go to work. Absolutely. I mean, before this, we were based in Harrow. So we did have an office beforehand anyway. But for sure, central London is just a different kettle of fish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd be able to attract better people, more people to work with you as well being based there. It's an interesting one. And one of the guys on our board certainly thinks so. But I'm not too sure if that's necessarily true. Gymshark is based in Solihull, super outside the center. And they have some of the most brilliant people in the world. That's true. I messaged the founder, went and met him. He was kind enough to see me, kind of one-on-one, sat for a couple of hours. You went up to Birmingham. Yeah, I went to their HQ, which is unbelievable. So it's in Solihull? Solihull, yeah. And his name is Ben Francis. If you haven't seen his YouTube videos, you've got to check them out. I need to watch it. I do wear some of his clothes, actually. Oh, you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people are nowadays. It's cool. Yeah, fantastic clothing. And he's attracted some brilliant people. And he's not based anywhere near London. And so, or the center of sort of Birmingham. And so I'm not sure. I think if your mission is strong enough, and if you're demonstrating that people can grow with you as individuals as well, and you're offering them that path, then I think you'll be able to attract talent. It's interesting. Yeah, I mean, there's clearly more talent near big cities. For sure, yeah. For sure. But you are seeing firms like Gymshark. And in the US, you're seeing a lot of firms moving outside the big cities. Yeah. Because it's, I mean, rent's expensive. Absolutely. Salaries are really high. Absolutely. But as long as you pick somewhere where there's good transport links. For sure. And good unis and spores, whatever. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think startups have a competitive advantage on talent in that respect. You may not be able to pay the best salaries in the world, but you will be able to involve someone fully in the business. And so I believe that someone's learning curve will be much steeper and more involved if you're working in a startup. And that's why, provided you're able to do that, you should be able to attract talent, although that's obviously a challenge. Yeah, yeah. The young people's interesting with startups because, I mean, what a great place to work as a young person. Yeah. However, you've got to pick the right one because often, if they don't have time to train you. Yes. It's tough, right? Absolutely. And you have to be, as a young person, the right mindset that you're comfortable with ambiguity, comfortable with something that's not structured, things moving. Unlike, say, going into a big bank, you touch on it very structured, a military style. This is what you're doing. Here's the training session. So it's interesting. You've got to be in the right mindset for this thing. Oh, for sure. It just depends what you want out of life. I think that's just the best way to look at it. If you like a corporate structure, you want set training, you want set hours, you know what you're going to take home every single month. It's definitely a corporate argument. But for me, my fear of being bored was greater than the fear of taking risks. And so going into business was something that I was always naturally going to do. And so it just depends what you want out of life. It's great, absolutely. I was the same. Yeah, of course, yeah. I started your own business very young, still a businessman. Still going. It's great fun, all of its mindset. Absolutely. You've got to think carefully about whether or not you want that life. For sure.  Absolutely. And rewarding and stuff like that. How did you find, as we talked about people, obviously the other big thing is money. How did you find raising cash and finding investors and so forth? Fundraising is an interesting one. And I think you have to be careful, because you need to pick investors that hopefully have some experience or exposure to your vertical, because that way you can have more meaningful conversations. Because it's not just about money, but I think people do confuse that and think fundraising is just about the money. So you wanted money and intellect, experience. Yeah, I think someone wants to call it capital plus. Get the capital plus, you get that experience and value add. Because that is so important that you're able to have conversations with, whether it be your board or just angel investors, or if you've got VC backing with your VC, that elevate your business model and position you in the correct way for an exit, if that's what you're going for. And so that's something that I think we've done successfully. We've got really fantastic people on board. And they get involved so far as advising us on strategy, which is exactly what we wanted. Brilliant. So you've got them involved in your board, let's say. They have a seat at the table. They meet once a quarter or whatever. Yeah, on those sort of things, even if it's not an official board seat, they're always happy to meet us and have a chat about where are we headed, where do you see the next six months, or how have the past couple of quarters gone, that kind of thing. And just prodding us and poking holes in our thinking, which is very helpful. I think some people find that uncomfortable. But for us, we just want to make sure that we are covered from all angles and that we're seeing everything fully. And so our investors help us do that for sure. That's great. Are you going to go down the crowdfunding route? A few of my friends are going down that route. I don't think at our seed level it was for us, necessarily, because it's harder to get that value add if you've got, I don't know, 100 investors through the crowd. And you can't go and chat to each one. There's nothing wrong with raising on the crowd. Some people have done it really well. Brewdog has obviously grown prominently in their crowd company. But I don't think it was for us at that stage, but never say never. Fine. I should be open to a little crowdfunding. Yeah, we'd be open to looking at it. I'm not sure if it's the route that we would necessarily go down, but always keeping the options over. You never know. It's correct. When you started, you kind of self-funded. Yes. And then from day one, you started to look for some maybe cornerstone investors, high net worth, so it could start to. Yeah, I think we were lucky that we actually got a lot of inbounds, because we fairly publicly grew quite quickly, just getting listings and social approval and social media following went up very quickly as well. And so we were lucky to get a lot of inbounds. And through that, you sort of build out your network and have those conversations. And that's sort of how it happened. Awesome. That's really cool. And you don't have a co-founder, right? So I have two. It's two, right? Yeah, so one of my co-founders's name is Steph. So Steph is basically in charge of our product development. So she's been working really hard on our new product range, which I'm hoping will drop by December Jan, although it's now November. So I'm not sure. December Jan, we'll stick a little link on the show now so people can click and go through. And my other co-founder's name's Alex. So he's in charge of our retail division. And so he's fantastic, fully on top of it, driving great sale, working with the whole supply chain. And we all sort of work together to drive strategy forward. Awesome. So you started on your own? I did, yeah. At what point in time did you think I want some help, some co-founders to? I just think it's a natural progression because you, as a solo founder, can't do everything. And I think it's wrong for you to have absolute decision making on every vertical, because you need people that see things differently to you to be making decisions in the verticals that you're not as good as them in. And so recognizing what you're not good at and what other people are very good at, it just forms easy decisions. And so it was never a difficult conversation or something to overcome. I think it was just a natural thing. Picking a co-founder's tough, right? I mean, you're spending seven days a week with them. Absolutely. More time than you are with your family. Oh, yeah. Did you know them before? No. How did you go back to that? Didn't know either of them before. I think, I'm not sure if you've read this book, The Founder's Dilemma. No, no. And it talks about kind of exit valuations correlated to, if you know your co-founder before, one of the chapters goes into that a little bit. Cool. And I think generally speaking, it works better if you don't know your co-founders before. That's what the data suggests anyway. Interesting. Just because you can talk a lot more objectively about your goals and the business strategy. And it allows your thinking to be a lot more transparent, which I think has to be sort of the core of how you run your business. It has to be transparent. And often if you've known someone for a very long time, you know their emotional cues. And so you may kind of hesitate to be as transparent. Absolutely. Whereas between the three of us, there's no filter. And that's brilliant. And that's why we worked really well together. And we're good friends as well. Amazing. So it was kind of like speed dating, right? Sort of. So you like met them for an hour or two. And you thought, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, it's sort of, to be honest, I mean. A recruitment is kind of like speed dating, for honest.  Oh, that's an interesting way to look at it. I might have to tell both of them that and see what they say. Brilliant. And so what are your plans for the future now? I think we've talked international. Absolutely, yeah. Do you want to lay out lines?  I think it's just about positioning that correctly and facing that out well so that we can manage our marketing budgets and grow efficiently. Great. But really, it's a story of scale. So we've got new products in the pipeline, specifically for certain sectors. And it's about releasing those successfully, maintaining great road of sale, and also growing our D2C channels. So that's our plan. So we've got a very kind of hectic few years ahead. I love it. And Brexit? Do you see that? Can I have a bit of a? Who knows? Who knows? No, I mean, we've made. We've all seen productions in the UK. So, I mean, that's great. That's a thing that really helps us. So we're all UK based. And so selling within the UK, obviously, from an import perspective, it doesn't hit us in that way. But let's see what Brexit even means. I mean, that's going to give us clarity. We have got contingency plans about, you know, should it mean one thing? Then we've got kind of a plan. But fingers crossed that it's not too disruptive. Hopefully it will all work out. Everything works out in the end. Oh, absolutely. And maybe Brexit will happen one day. Let's see. Who knows? We've got an election to come first. Absolutely. But look, well done with everything you're doing. It's great to speak to people there. Thank you for having me on. Doing things. And I know it's great to speak to you and look forward to watching your journey. Fantastic. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, folks. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe in all the usual places.


Hi and how are you all today? The question says 8% of people in a group are left handed. What is the probability that 2 or more of a random sample of 25 from the group are left handed? So here in this question we are given the value of P as 8% that is 8 by 100. And we are given the number of people in the group as 25. So let us find out the value of lambda first. So it is n into P that is 25 into 8% which gives us the answer as now probability that 2 or more people from this group are left handed is equal to when P probability that x is greater than 2 isn't it? And probability that x is greater than 2 can be found out by subtracting probability of x is less than equal to 1 from 1 as the sum of all the probabilities will be equal to 1. This further implies 1 minus bracket probability that x is equal to 1 plus probability of x is equal to 0. We will be finding it out. We can write it as like this also. Now we have 1 minus now probability of 1 can be written as 2 raised to the power 1 into e raised to the power minus 2 upon 1 factorial plus 2 raised to the power 2 into e raised to the power minus 2 upon 0 factorial. Now in the question we are given to use the value of minus e raised to the power minus 2 as 0.135. So using it here we have 1 minus 2 into 0.135 upon 1 minus 2 into 0.135 upon 1. That is further equal to 1 minus its value after multiplying is 0.27 plus 0.135. So we have after simplifying 1 minus 0.405 which is further equal to 0.595. So the answer to this question is 0.595. This is the probability that 2 or more people of a random sample of 25 from the group R left-handed. This ends the session. Hope you understood it well. Enjoy it. Bye for now.


All right, here we are. Another episode of Let There Be Talk today. Once again, I'll be celebrating some new music and it's New Music Monday with a fantastic band on today, or one human from the band, Mr. Matt Burr of the Black Delta Movement. How are you, buddy? I'm good. How are you? I'm great, man. Where are you at in your studio? Yeah, just in my studio in whole England, Yorkshire. So, yeah, I'm just getting ready for the launch gigs. We've got the launch shows for the album this week. So, getting everything ready. I got to tell you, man, it's like May 1st and we're early in the year, but you may have made my favorite record of the year. No way. Thanks, man. Yeah, it's really wild because somebody sent it over to me and I think you heard, I was promoting it on the podcast a couple of weeks ago where they said, hey, kind of like Brian Jones Town Massacre, I think you'll dig it. And I put it on. Usually when somebody says that somebody sounds like somebody, it's going to be a bummer, you know? Yeah, yeah, completely. Yeah, yeah, especially when it comes to like desert rock, when people send over like desert rock. Oh, yeah. I already got kaius. I'm good. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, man. But I put it on and it absolutely blew my mind. And of course, it got me digging down the rabbit hole and I would say that your debut record for 2018 would have kind of a Brian Jones Town flavor and a kind of a Brit rock vibe. But this has especially the first track on the record for it. What is it? 4th, 4th. Yeah, man. That actually to me had some flavors of like soul coffin back in the day. Yeah, well, the producer Malcolm Carter is, I don't know how familiar you are with him, but he's, he's a genius. There's no two ways about it and you'll probably hate me saying that in public. But there's just this real magic way why it's because the album really, when I demoed it up and everything, it was very shoe-gazy and very psych. It was like kind of really is as close to middle of the road psych as you could really say.  So he goes, just try this and I've got a 1967 Vox ultrasonic and it's got built-in fuzz on it. And it's the best fuzz I've ever heard and I got it because of the Brian Jones domestic. And he said, get that fuzz on and just do it. And I kind of did it in for a while because I've been so used to the song for four years. And it just didn't sound right to me, but he said, no, no, no, keep going with it. And he kind of got us all playing. And he just turned the groove of the song on its head. And there was one bit when we were doing the solo at the end and we all started kind of wigging out a little bit. And he comes in after we finished the take. He was like, it was good, but you all got a bit too flowery and spoiled it. So we just kind of, he said, just settle back into it, just the way I can, we can layer whatever we want onto it. And he just, he just added so many different kind of feels into it that I've never even considered before. It's really wild because the record kind of dances around between kind of some upbeat kind of 60s psychedalia. And then what I would call some straight up just David Lynch rock, you know, and this is kind of the second slight comparison that I've had in a few weeks.  Yeah, well that that one. I suppose you always have a bit of a vision for it. And tall grass really, it nearly didn't go on the album. But when I wrote it, I wanted it to be a really dark and horrible song. Because there's elements of the album which are quite dark, you know, like, like fourth pass and. Yeah, photograph. Yeah, because that's that's quite a retrospective song as well. But then with them with having this tall grass, I just wanted it to be really dark and I've got just over there. I've got an electric tempura, which is basically like Indian detergents. And I said to Malcolm, I really want to use this on something said, put it through a wild pedal, man. And we got it through the wild pedal and a load of reverb and it just got that really kind of wow. And yeah, it was a real nice kind of groundwork to twinkle everything else up kind of thing.   And, you know, it's all and and stuff that you're not even going to care about in a couple weeks. But you went with eight tracks and and some people's minds back in like maybe right now would think is this an EP but in the 70s and the 60s records were six seven eight songs. Yeah, it will. I think part of the problem we had because we actually recorded and 11 songs and well 12 but one of them got scrapped in the recording progress but process. But one of the big things that kind of kept us to that as well that we obviously you're restricted how much can go on a vinyl. And you can squeeze bits on and you know sacrifice some of the quality and everything but we just thought. I mean, from my point of view, it's taken me five years to release this album. So I just wanted it to slap as much as possible rather than just fill it out with, you know, with something that maybe doesn't quite fit the vibe of the album. And quite like if you keep an album brief people don't get bored of it so quickly. Like I wanted people to hear all the album. Exactly. That's a lot like in comedy right now you know people.  People just they just don't have the time and the ADD is just at the maximum right now and you're right man people might not ever even get to the back and also in this weird world of where the bands are in one, two, three, four, five singles before the record comes out and then by the time it comes out people have moved on. Yeah, well that's that's the other thing is like the label first club said to do three singles which I thought was a quite a good number for it really. And initially we're going to self release it before first club said they're interested.  It's pointless and you know I want I want people I buy albums and I listen to albums as a full thing so I want to put that out for people who listen to that as well but you know they're not to sound like an old get but it seems like kids now they don't listen to albums. You know, the art of the albums kind of disappeared a little bit. And I really want to really focus on that I think if I'd have had more time and money, I'd have like to have done b sides for each single as well, because the art of the b sides gone as well. Yeah, absolutely.  Yeah, completely. The music industry is in a really weird position at the minute and it'll be the same for you with comedy as well that people have such short attention spans you don't. It seems like people don't fall in love with a band so much anymore like, I think when I was at school and there was like the strokes coming out and active monkeys and like me as like a, however, or what 14 year old.  But now you just seem to find that people don't really do that anymore. Like it's really hard to find the scene and to really kind of want to learn everything about a band. Yeah, you know, it's really sad it's and the theme of this podcast I think over the last couple years with comedians and bands has been algorithm. And that nightmare of like, how can you get into the algorithm well if you do get into it and it sky rockets you to like 235 million views. Next, the people move on. It's really low brewing and as much as it might seem like it takes a long time and you're not getting anywhere. You really on the long end, end up with some really great fans or I would call them friends that are well invested in what you're doing and you know that old thing if you can have a thousand true fans you can have a career in art which is so true. Totally man, exactly that. And that's one thing I've been looking up to find over the years with the band. We've been a band for 13 years now and throughout the way, it's always kind of trickled up and got a little bit bigger each time but there's people who have just supported us. No end they've never even questioned and they're so supportive of it. And they're the ones who are really important. And I'd rather have those people where, you know, the care and the care and I want to please them as a performer you want to please your audience and your fans don't you and I'd rather I'd rather bubble over and just be able to keep doing it for 15 years than be you know like who did that someone I used to know like fair plays makes a lot of money of royalties but it's one song. Yeah, exactly, exactly you know and like I always say my patreon the people on my patreon, they're the gods to me, because they were there during the COVID when I had nothing and they're still there and a lot of them had nothing at the time also. This is not people sitting around rich during COVID other than you know industries and ludicals but yeah it's a it means the world to me and I and I you know when I hear a record like what you put out here and I want to tell everybody what it's called because I want you to immediately listen to this record recovery effects. And the band is the black delta movement. They have a record out in 2018 called preservation. When I hear a record like this, I immediately, I tell everyone and and over and over I said on the show the power of grassroots will smoke an algorithm anytime at the end of the day.  And yeah, we think everyone's so terrified of the algorithm but I think if we just go out there and just do it. Yeah. And that's how you do it you've just got to work and you can't always kind of blame technology technology is changing all the time. Yeah, exactly. Let's let's get into how you guys started and you talked about the strokes which is one of my favorite bands, absolutely of all time and also anything Julian's done, including the voids and stuff. And that was an amazing era. We were going through we had this big boom in the 80s of all types of different music of course from James addiction to guns and roses and, and then it kind of switches into this kind of cool melting pot of anything from, you know, gangster to singer songwriter wall flowers to, you know, grunge, and then there's this long period of music was happening, but then a little thing called the strokes the yeah yeah yes, interpool, this comes around the leather jackets come out and the bars are on and it feels dangerous again, and it was some of the best music I had heard in years and a movement of where people were dressing rock and going out and they were way into it so you being 14 years old. Were you listening to what were you listening to and then that scene hits you. I was really lucky that my dad raised me in a really good way musically so I grew up with like the Beatles, the Jam, Oasis, Blair and like my first ever gig was Russian Coliseum at Hull City Hall when I was eight years old and then it was Oasis when I was nine. I mean, I've done well I've been lucky and, and I always kind of grew up listening to whatever my dad played me because luckily he's got a good taste, which makes birthdays really easily easy as well because I can just get in the record I want. But then, then all of that hit in the early 90s and I remember there was a there was a show on over here called the hits and and then there was on E4 I can't remember the name of it was specially squeezed and my dad shouts me through and he goes Matt come here. And there's Attic Monkeys I bet you look at the dance floor and he goes these are going to be massive and literally two weeks later poor just blew up. And it was like, although me and my dad always still liked all the same stuff that felt like my era.  And yeah you had the strokes and everything. I was a little bit coming to the strokes early and I've still not seen them but I do want to see them in London in August. But then I also found that there's like, obviously the hives from Sweden and the vines. I mean the hives are probably the last truly great rock and roll band that they did. Incredibly what they do is so unique and ballsy. That's pretty man. Man, yeah, I adored that band. I listened to them nonstop and then there was another one that I really fell in love with because I had a hard time at school. I got quite badly bullied and music was like my heaven really. And I found a band called Mando D'El and they were supporting pretty things. There was Karl Barats band after the Liverpools. And they were just, they felt like my secret band. Like in Europe, they were like Oasis but in the UK, nobody had heard of them. And their first three albums were as good indie as you get. They were so good. And I kind of based a lot of in my first band. I wanted to be Mando D'El. And that was very much kind of like my awakening as a teenager. And then my first band split up when I think I was about 17 or 18 and but I remember I went to the Black Keys at Manchester Academy and my dad took me out of school early. He said I had a doctor's appointment. And the Black Angels were supporting. And I remember they came on stage and thinking about the open with Empire and everything changed. I just thought, shit, this is it. What a band. That song, Currency is one of the best songs I've ever heard. Yeah man. They just, they get it so right with like heavy but the space and then you've got all the texture with it as well. And I mean, I remember I met Christian Blandaster of one of their shows years ago. And I was only about like again, probably 19, 20 or something. And I go, what pedals do you use? And he goes, anything Sid Barrett uses man. Yeah. I was like, fair player man. Why, why keep it a secret? You know, people like Sid Barrett and Rocky Erickson are the greatest ever. So why wouldn't you want to use what they use? Yeah. And I really think the Black Angels are probably the finest psychedelic rock and roll band in the world right now. That band is fantastic man. I've seen them live twice. I have all their records.  Yeah man. They're just, it's a bit of a rite of passage. So the Black Dot movement has had a few members but the fellas are in now there's Matty, Liam and Sam. And I said to them, look, if you're going to say in this band, you've got to come see this band with me. So we, we got tickets to see them in Manchester last month, two months ago.  So good. And like I said, I don't think there's any band that does what they do, as well as they do. Yeah. Yeah.  It's just unbelievable the output and the incredibleness of that band and that sound.  And, and, and they're bigger than ever now.  Yeah man. And about time as well. Like Anton, I've been lucky enough to meet Anton a few times. And he's the sweetest man. But I just feel so sad for him that on the tomorrow night, painted him as this prick in the film. And you could not meet a more lovely guy. He's just really straight with people.  But, you know, what do you think of his output over the years? I don't think he's ever made a bad album.  He genuinely hasn't put out a bad album, has he? No, no, it's wild too, because like he's so deep, deep into his career. And it's always just primo. And you can tell he just absolutely puts his heart and soul into all of it.  No, no, not at all. And it made me feel a lot better with things as well, because you think, like, the journalist town maybe didn't get like the success they deserved until Anton was mid-30s. And like, I remember starting out in music and thinking, right, I've got to be massive by the time it's 25 or it's over and I'm working checkouts and delivery drivers or whatever.  And it just shows that music doesn't have to be a young man's game, you know, if you're learning and pushing what you do. And again, Anton's got his studio and he's part of the inspiration why I did all this. He just gets in the studio, works for 12 hours a day and smashes songs out. Unfortunately, I'm not as perfect as he is. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that because you've been a band what, 13 years and you put a record out in 2018. And then of course, you know, COVID happens, I understand that. But why did it take five years to put out this new record? Well, so there's a few things really. So we were going to, when we did preservation, we're originally only going to do a single of King Mosquito. But we actually canceled the studio time last minute because the drummer was away or something. And at the end I said, right, we've got to do an album now, otherwise the band's going to die. We can't just keep doing singles and EPs and so we did the album and everything. And then we recorded it in August 2017. And then Christmas 2017, three members of the band left just waiting, enjoying playing music anymore.  So but then we told the album and I thought, right, once it's going to smash out the new album and crack on. And then it got, then it became 2019 and we had told it to death and then the lineup changed again. And I thought I need a few months off and then I'll write it, we'll record it in 2020 and we'll put it out and fine. And then I wrote most of the album before the pandemic kicked off and we had it land up to record it. So again, on the album, we're lucky enough to have Barry Cadogan on guitar, who in my opinion and not just because he's a good friend, but he is absolutely the best guitarist in the world right now. And he's been my hero since I was 16. So he agreed to come play on the album with me and then there's Lewis Wharton who plays bass with Barry in Little Barry and Tony Coop. And who also plays with Little Barry and he also plays with P.P. Arnold. So we got it all lined up to go record the album with them and we're sending the demos out and they're all keen. And then somebody ate a bat and then the pandemic kicks off. So I'm kind of sat there thinking, ah, well, because I don't know how it was in the Sturks, but in the UK, all the time it's like in three weeks time we'll reevaluate if we can reopen in three weeks time. So you're thinking, right, cool, three weeks time we'll go record an album, then we'll go get famous. And then three weeks, 10 to three months. And in that time, luckily, I kind of wrote some of my favourite songs on the album, like No Road to Go and Always Home. And then, yeah. And then where Malcolm's studio is in London, it's beneath a community centre. And it was actually being used to house homeless people through the pandemic so we couldn't go in and record. So it ended up being made 2021 by the time we could record it. So it was really, it was a real humdinger. And in that time, I'd been made redundant from the music venue I worked at and I ended up working as a Covid tester. So I was doing all the swabbing. Oh, wow. It was the best job I've ever had. It was so good. The best people there ever. And yeah, I mean that paid for the album because obviously I couldn't go out and spend it. So I ended up blowing it all on the record instead. And we mastered the album in January 2022 with John Davison Metropolis and he did all the Led Zeppelin reissues. Wow. It was real cool.  And we were sat in this beautiful mastering studio and there's a box in front of me and it's got these tapes in it. And he goes, I'll have a look at that. I looked inside it and it was Gorilla's new album. So dude, the stories he has is amazing. And he's just such a wonderful guy. So we mastered it in January then. And then we sent it out to labels. And then we started experiencing the hangover that music industry has had from COVID. And label just went taking risks on anything. And then nine months later, our first club come back and said, yeah, we like it, dude. Do you want to come join our family? And first club, one of my favorite labels. So for me, it was wet dream. Hey, you got a smoker record here on your hands, man. I mean, it is just, it's unreal. I listen to it all day, every day for like a week. Let me ask you, you're about to start some touring, right? Have you ever come over to these states or no? Not yet. We've had a few offers before. We've been asked to play South by Southwest three times, but it's so expensive. But there's, there's some opportunities for us to maybe come to California, which is a California and Austin, like my wet dreams. So hopefully, I think we've got some meetings about that next month. So the sooner we can come over, man, the better. We'll have to grab a beer. Oh God, I got it. I got to see you, man. Do you know about when that would be? Or is it just talks now? It just talks at the minute. It's always been brooch before, but again, it's a financial thing, but we've got a couple of assets in the States now. And then when you look at our Spotify details and stuff, our most played country is the States. And I think to be honest, the States is a market I really want to tap into. Plus, I really want to see the States more. I've already been to New York, like 18 years ago. I need to see more of it. And if I can get my expenses paid, then perfect. Yeah. Let's talk about the band. Is it four piece or five piece? It's a four piece at the minute. We used to be a five piece with two drummers. I was really, really happy with the sound there. But yes, it's a four piece now. So there's me on guitar and vocals and then there's Liam Yates playing guitar and Matty Laws on bass and then there's Sam Matthews on the drums. There's a lot of Matthews in the band. And they came up to me before the pandemic started and said, oh, if you need any members again, let me know and I'll come down. And the poor guys have been sat waiting with me for like four years not waiting to gig. Yeah, man. We'll be gigging next month. Don't worry. And four years on. We plan to think about four shows. So COVID, man. Yeah. But other than let's say some old psychedelia of like Pink Floyd, Sid Barrett, stuff like that. 60s. Did you get into any other kind of psychedelic music?  I listened to bits and pieces. I'm trying to think now. I mean, I got into a lot of the kind of new wave of psych that happened over the last 10 years when you had people like, like the overseas and Ty Segal and Goat and Night Beats, obviously our label mates as well. So I kind of got into that. But it's a massive mix of stuff I've kind of learnt along the years. And then I love stuff like Dr. John when you listen to like, you know, I walk on Gilded Splinters. That's voodoo psych. Isn't it? It's evil sounding. Yeah. But yeah, I'm trying to think now. I'm on the spot. I kind of anything ready. I'm quite open to most things. But again, with my dad, I grew up on a lot of the oldest stuff. My dad was a mod. So he liked all the jam and everything like that.  And he gets the LP out and he goes, this band's called The Beatles. And I remember thinking like three year old, they don't look like Beatles.  So like, I was kind of raised on that.  I've had like bits like that. But for me, I love the real kind of guitar driven stuff and the stuff where you're working from not a lot to make these kind of soundscapes.  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So a bit of everything really. But I am, like I said, the new way stuff was really, really exciting. And some of the stuff coming out through there was really like eye-opening, you know, the black angels. But I think the band to thank for all of that is the Brian Johnson massacre. Absolutely. Absolutely. Completely. Yeah. Sorry. They just hit you with the, I always call it, they're the original heroin rock, you know. Completely. It comes on with the box and the jangly guitars and, you know, and just the old, old school sounds.  I hear flavors in there like morphine and Nick cave and stuff like that. But it's not like, oh, I know what this is. It just has a melding pot of just beautiful influences to make your own thing. Well, I think when you, when you look at all the kind of, all the greatest music in the world now anyway, they've always kind of. Wanted their images on the sleeves without, without just copying it. But when you think of the Beatles and the Stones took things from the blues and everything. And then you had like the dam to we're taking stuff from the Sonics. And then. We'll try to erase this T-Rex and everything. And I think the reason these, these bands blow up is because it's reminiscent for us. And I think the familiarity is a real lovely. Comfort mechanism. It's a comfort blanket, isn't it? Yeah.  There's a bit of Cosby Stills and Nash in there. And there's, I mean, I noticed a lot of like small faces references and I, that one of my favourite ever bands. And like for me as well, when I started getting into the Johnstone, it was so cool to hear like an American band, american style band referencing the small faces. Because I think they're like one of the kind of most bands of 60s Britain, aren't they? And yeah, I think there's, you get all the the Marvin Gaye thing where they go after anybody who sounds like Marvin Gaye. But we're all hearing the same however many chords there are. Of course we're gonna, you know, it's the same way we've all got accents, isn't it? If we go up around something, that's what we sound like. And, you know, I thought he's really sweet of Elvis Costello with Olivia Rodrigo.  And he's, and he was just like, yeah, that's cool. She listened to me. She ripped it off. She can have it. That's great. And I think that's such a constructive way of art now, isn't it?  What's hip? What's happening? I want to keep trying different stuff. And, and that is a real wild thing to think about like somebody like Sid Barrett influencing like Mick Jagger. Well, that's it though, isn't it? I mean, the 60s community was so small as well. And it's just all about creating music, man. That's, that's all we want to do. And instead of getting salty that somebody is taking our, or taking inspiration for what we do, just think right on, man, that's sick. Yeah, keep, let's, let's get together, let's go to each other's shows. And that's how we get the scenes as well. You know, the whole New York scene was everyone coming together over music. And yeah, people get too precious about it, I think.  I mean, it's like, there's, there's the kind of contentious thing of proxy lady and rolling over by the Small Faces who recorded it fast because it's pretty much the exact same song.  They're both great songs. Yeah. Yeah. And at the end of the day, it's, it's, you know, it's very hard in music to do anything where you go, I've never heard this before.  And then also stuff like craft work over, you know, way back. Ooh, this is new. But there's nobody that comes out and you have never heard this before at all. You're always going to say, I know where this is coming from. Of course you are. Again, it's like the accents thing, isn't it?  Or there's always going to be echoes because really, maybe just because we've not found it, but can we go with music now? I feel like we've covered everything. Yeah. Like in 60 years, I think every genre possible has been covered. It was interesting with Malcolm, who produced the record, because he used to dream for DJ Shadow, and he actually gave Shadow a few seven inches for introducing. And he was saying, like, when it comes to hip hop and such, he said, you know, hip hop sampled R&B, it sampled rock, but it's not sampled psychedelic music yet. And I thought, yeah, that's interesting, man. And then I said that to a mate of mine. He said, I don't know, as is this album, which I've forgotten the album. But I think that's any way that you can come up with something new now is using things that have already been done and slam them together. Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine like hip hop sampling some like ancient country music also? I'd be wild, man. I'd be all over that. Just cross pollination of really strange stuff. Because of course, they grab in Miles Davis and stuff. And then of course, old R&B and a lot of funk, 70s funk. And I think someone once said that James Brown was the most sampled man in the world, which I probably believe, you know, but to do something like, yeah, psychedelic hip hop over it, that would be really interesting. And it might be out there, and I just haven't heard it yet. Like, that's the thing also with music. You guys have been around, I'm hardcore into new music, always looking for it.  So I'm always digging. So you never know what's out there. That's it. You've always just got to keep looking out. You know, you've never completed it. And I feel sad for people who are just like interested in new music anymore. I've found the bands I like. Because, you know, like for me, I could have quite happily sat and listened to the Black Angels for the rest of my life.  And why would you want to give up giving all these new bands? Yeah, well, they definitely you and myself being artists, they inspire us also. That's crazy, because I think that people stop getting creative when they're stuck in a box of I listen to these 10 bands and I listen to I watch these 20 movies every year. Look, I'm in the movies like every year I watch Jaws and Godfather and Apocalypse Now and Chinatown and Deer Hunt. But when it comes to music, man, I'm all it's almost like a buzzed for me, man. I'm like a rush.  Just turning people on to stuff. And you hope that they take it in. But I would say you're right. Like, I would say about 70% of the people are like, yeah, I'll check it out.  Well, I mean, the amount of people are sending albums, you need to listen to this man. And then it just does listen to it. And it's, I mean, if you keep getting the same albums, people all the time, then you're going to be like, Oh, fucking, I'll listen to it later. But yeah, it's, I mean, me and my, me and my friends, we make a really big thing of like, sending each other records all the time and albums, mate, go listen to this. And then me and my karma as well. We had a big thing. We've been planning it for about three years now to have a record night. So we bring 10 or 12 records to each of those houses. And we listen to every record over a few drinks. Three years later, still not done it. But that's life, isn't it? But it's that thing of when you sit with somebody and go, dude, you need to hear this, this is the best thing about this is it's, it's such a like a tight bond you have with people as well by doing them things, I think. Yeah. That's a trust thing too. It's, I got a few buddies like that. I think as you get older, you get these buddies that are way into music still mine being Greg Dewey from the Afghan Wigs and then Jay from Rival. Whenever we're around each other, it's like, man, you heard this. Have you heard this? Yeah. I've heard this and it's wild because he'll have stuff. I have no idea. And I have stuff he has no idea. And we're both into music. I was like, man, I've never heard this, you know? Yeah. Well, yeah, that's it. And it's such an intensely personal thing as well. Isn't it music? So you kind of burn yourself like that. It's, it's a real nice thing. And I think it's, it's a really big compliment to have somebody send you a band because that's them going, I really like this and I want you to like it. Yeah. And it's, it's a, it's a, I think it's a really sweet thing. Yeah. And I think, and again, kind of going back to the whole algorithm thing and the tension span and everything, like, I don't think people have that same, but I think for the buying large, a lot of people know they don't have that same passion for it. It's like, oh my God, this is so special. I've got to show it to somebody. And then, but then you, on the other end of the spectrum, you get the hipster ourselves who don't want anyone to hear that music. Oh yeah. It's their own secret band and it's like, oh, get fucked, man. I love those guys. Yeah, man. They're the worst because like them keeping that band a secret, the band can't afford to keep going if they've already been played by the same 10 people. This is our band.  Yeah, that's it, man. And this is where like the black keys I love because like they didn't want to put all these songs and I'm fast and fast, because I know people will think we sold out and then they didn't. They got massive people going, oh, the sellouts get stretched. Like these guys are making money and they're still making great albums. Like, why would you be salty about the band doing well? Yeah. And you know, but then you look at bands like Queens and the Stone Age as well.  And then I just feel happy for them. Oh, God. Oh, God, yeah. You know what?  So I'm like, Hey, man, if five million people love Josh, that's a good thing because, you know, it's like in the movie world, when a good movie comes out that's not a superhero film, you're like, God, please make some more of those like they used to do. Totally, man. This is it. And I've got to say with homie as well, he's such a rock star. Like, I saw them in Finsbury Park in London years ago, and they had Iggy Pop and the Hive supporting and Run the Jewels. So it was insane.   And I'm gutted, we all tried to get tickets to see them in Halifax in June, but it's sold out like that. So we've all missed out. But they really are one of the greatest rock and roll bands out there now.   He's a great, he's a great album. Again, Queens have not done a bad album. Now, man, it's a, well, Josh is, to me, is the high watermark of art. I always think about things I do and I'm like, well, would Josh do this?   He tells you how it is. People get angry and he's like, yeah, yeah, you think my records would be good if I was a normal person?  This is the danger you like. And this is, sometimes the tiger bites, man.  That's the where homie is amazing with it. He just lets things just send. He just lets it go. And he's got such a unique way of playing guitar as well that even if you learn all the little scales that he does, you're still not Josh homie. Yeah. Yeah.  No, no. Yeah. Never. I'd love to be, but there's no way. I'm not tall enough for a star, but yeah, what am I? Are you a comedy fan? I love comedy. Yeah, man. So I've obviously watched a lot of your things. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of Bill Baer as well and Ricky Gervais. And there's a new guy in England called Paul Smith. I don't know if you've found him on the algorithm. No.  He's really good. Yeah, definitely worth checking him out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's like the most like straight down the middle British name ever Paul Smith, but really, really good, man. Listen, man, it was great talking to you, Matt. And once again, I absolutely love this record. It's called the recovery effects. It's out right now. They've got a great video fourth pass over the graveyard that is just fantastic. And I don't know if you have any other videos out, but go to YouTube, also hit their website, follow them on Instagram, give them your Instagram because it's not, it's like BD movement, right? Yes, BDM official. Okay.  Yeah. So we've, we've, we've got two short launch shows on the third of May. We're playing in London at the 100 club. And we've got Taken Kawabe from Boningon, who if you've not checked them out, and there's Oliver Marston and opening the show up. And then we've got the, the new Adelphi club in Hull on Friday, the fifth of May, which is also my mother's birthday, so I better get a good present for her. And we've got The Fruit and the Big River Boys supporting there. And the Adelphi is like a legendary venue. It's like the number one jewel in Hull's crown. So it's really nice kind of launch the album at these two real legendary venues. And then we're going to be touring later in the year. We're just getting them all booked now. Well, I hope to see you in California. Please email me and hit me right away when you find out when it is. I'll start promoting it for you. And I'll come down and hang out. I can't wait to see this record live. And I can't wait to meet you, man. Thanks for doing the show. Yeah, man. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me, dude. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll talk soon, man. It's time for me to go back to bed. I was, I was in shows last night. I'm like, oh, I gotta go. I'm 30. I was so drunk in the other bed, man. I just stayed up late. Oh, it's all good, man. It's all good. And everybody listening to the podcast, subscribe to my YouTube channel, Dean Delray, and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. And please leave a review. I'm going to ask you guys to do that because it always helps the the algorithm. But thanks a lot, man. Thanks for having me, dude. Black Dilt Movement right there, Matt Burr. Thank you so much, buddy. Thank you, dude. I'll see you. See you later.