I just started recording on my end, so I guess we'll start the meeting at 6.05 and I'll try and keep an eye out for more people that want to join and Welcome all in your cyber worlds As chair of the Rochester Select Board I find that due to the state of emergency declared by Governor Scott as we go result of the COVID-19 Pandemic and pursuant to add in them six to executive order 01-20 and act 92 this public body is authorized to meet electronically In accordance to act 92 There's no physical location to observe and listen Contemporaneously to this meeting however in accordance with the temporary amendments to the open meeting law I confirm that we are providing public access to the meeting by telephone video or electronic means and We're using zoom for this remote meeting all members of the board have the ability to communicate Contemporaneously during this meeting through this platform and the public has access to Contemporaneously listen and if desired participate in this meeting by By contacting the town clerk and requesting invitation to the meeting or Signing in on the posted meeting agendas which are posted in Three public places and on the website correctly. I Think so yes Okay We previously gave notice to the public of the necessary information by for accessing this meeting including how to access the meeting using telephone video or other electronic means in our posted agenda and it's also been posted on the website and We have provided a mechanism for the public to alert the public body during the meeting if there are problems with access so Let me get Robert Gardner here real quick admit him So if for some reason during this meeting you experience problems with your access You can call me at 802 767 4 4 6 4 as an emergency Way into the meeting if you have something you really need to say and it's not working through the system as well back up Continuing the meeting if necessary in the event the public is an unable to access this meeting It will be continued at a time and place to be determined By hopefully we will not need to do that Please note that all votes taken during this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote in accordance with the law and Let's start the meeting by taking a roll call attendance of the select board members in attendance Hendricks is present This present at Harvey next every present Frank's every's present. All right, so So on we go first off. Does anyone have any? Additions to the agenda that they would like to make at this time. I I do I have one I would just like to bring up the topic of a Possible Town garden allotment system. So I'll put that on there Sounds good Oh, I've got a bunch of stuff to ask But I don't know if you want to go through that now if you want to get on with a meeting and see I want to put them on the agenda that way we okay, I Just want to reiterate that the town plan is worn for next meeting on the 27th and We there was a thing that came out from the Vermont League of Cities in towns today that we've got that large Education payment that we're gonna have to make here in another month or two That's they they're gonna hopefully do something. We need to bone up our legislators about that a little bit and I saw Sandy Haas the other day and she said that she was gonna attend tonight's meeting but She hasn't I guess get on so a lot of people might be used to the 615 Meeting time. I'm not sure how we got on to the 6 o'clock. I guess the cyber world's a little more punctual than the world but so we got the the Town plan warning for next meeting and the education payment possible relief By the state. Yeah, that's and that's a big payment. So I'm not sure we're gonna have money enough to cover that through You know just a regular tax tax burden So we're probably gonna have to look at some other avenue for paying that but we're gonna need to do it You know, we're gonna have to Find out about it quicker than not. Yeah, yeah Another thing I was wondering in Because the crisis the COVID-19 crisis should we be meeting more? Maybe you know a little more frequently than we are. I mean, this was a long period Stretch. Yeah between that last one. Yeah I don't know if you if anybody's got any input on that I Wanted to ask Vic a few questions if I can but I'd wait until after we get through the agenda stuff. Okay I also would be looking forward to working with maybe some voters in Town coming up with some idea of how we're gonna run our election in the fall if we are still In a lockdown situation and come up with some ideas that we might be able to use Going forward maybe several different things whether it be a drive-through voting type thing and and or maybe Voting in the gym and have people spread out and rip the Voter rolls and like thirds or whatever so people aren't all gathering in one spot Go through the voting Just different ideas that it'd be good to get a group of people together thinking about it Yeah, yeah, just because you don't know how I don't know how this thing is going to play out I think nobody does really it could go for You know another six months. It could go another year. I mean if there's no testing being done That's gonna really cause some issues. I think and can come on anytime. So I think we ought to look at that And another thing I thought about was the taxes as far as our Budgeted plans and delinquencies and that I think we need to have a good idea how we're gonna handle that As far as you know, I know Becky has a lot of the Responsibility there, but maybe we come up with something where she can work up some good budget plans for people where we still have money coming in I got a real sneaky suspicion that probably our delinquencies are going to be up in the next few months And and we're gonna have to come up with some idea so that we keep money coming in. I think it really is Imperative to our financial And a couple other things we need to think about is what all the people that run our budgets if they're Really Putting their needs before their wants and we really got to make sure everybody's being tight here Because I think it's gonna be a tough it could be some tough sledding going on down the road here and And I think we ought to look at the road Work and make sure we're doing the right things there. I know we've got some grants out there and If we can get them or if they're even gonna have them now due to the way finances are gonna be even the state's gonna be in trouble with that, I think And that's I guess that's about all I have good I'm about out of paper No, that's all right It's all important stuff. Yeah I feel like kind of like I jumped out of an airplane without a parachute here Two times so I really don't know what I'm doing. But yeah, but now that's um That's why you got voted in We've had another couple people join and are there any other additions to the agenda at this time Is this do I say something at this point doing what I'd like to say? Carol, no, you're already on the agenda. Okay. I'm already on there. All right on the agenda. Yeah, okay. Thank you I have a quick question. Yeah Regarding the Porta potty that's right next to the new fire station. Is that open for the public to use or not? it's This usually closed in the winter and opened in the spring so it's probably About open to be used, you know, once it would be okay with the COVID virus to use that or Well, good question. Who's gonna be sanitizing it, right? Right? So that's something a question to put on that I would think we'd want to close anything like that I don't I don't how do we have? Yeah, we don't have people around to handle that. I mean now Basically, yeah. All right, so we'll put that on the agenda too and and talk about that right now We're still just gathering. That's a good one Berman. Thank you. I would think what does the fire department have? control of that or something I don't know Therefore that little park. Yeah, that was part of the requirements of the Conditions of the park of the grant for the park that we'd have So I would think we'd be able to put a sign on that pretty easily. Yeah. Yeah, and close that off These are things on Saying something there Patty. I lost you is that it? Is that for the amendment To the agenda Amanda. Yeah, you're gonna Amanda the The Bronfisher coos would like to talk about water and chlorination Well, what you said water and it started raining again, look at that We did get something doing I got a press release on my Harold email from the state about from the state water All right, great. So we'll get on to that and then we can you can share that with us when we get to it I don't have it in front of me. I'm sorry All right, but I was gonna say they should have sent it to the town too. I would think All right, so any other additions See none and there's nobody here waiting to get in I don't think so let's move on to the prior meeting minutes of the March 23 meeting and I Would move that we accept those a groundbreaking First virtual meeting minutes as recorded Yeah, no in favor. All right. All right. All right. So that's a unanimous on that and have we had the The annual town meeting minutes approved by the moderator yet. Yeah, they're fine Okay, they're signed. So I'd move to accept those as approved by Dan McKinley the town moderator for that meeting and I do say that. All right. All in favor All right. All right, and then again unanimous great We have So this may shed some light on some of the other questions we had so why don't we jump right to? Joan if your updates that you have for us Yeah, can can you can you hear me? Okay? Yeah. Yeah So a bunch of things some of these are just updates on things that we've discussed before but sort of by way of reminder of nothing else The Mount Cushman Culver replacement project. We have the construction funding in hand most of it a state branch Structures grant and the White River partnership is committed to funding the 10% match so Assuming that the bids don't come in higher than the funds that we have on hand We shouldn't the town shouldn't have to put up any cash for this one As for the bidding I've been working with cricket and the partnership to prepare the bid package and it's going to go out With a cover letter that explains the uncertainty of the timing of the work And that's going to apply to you know, any of this state funding Frank you were sort of referring to that and that's certainly the case for Any state funding that we either have in hand or expect to have With some applications so I'll be submitting pretty soon We really don't know if there's going to be a construction season at all this year At least where it comes to state money and maybe federal money as well. I don't know what FEMA's policy is either So that's still a big uncertainty And the path I think we're on now with the construction that we're hoping to do this this coming season would be Go out to bid unless we hear something to the contrary about that and Contractors would bid based on the Uh Based on not really knowing when exactly construction would take place whether it would be this year or next year And that could certainly change But we just don't know at this point So we thought the best thing was to proceed with the information we have and that if it changes It changes and it's going to affect everybody. Yeah, so I hope that sounds okay to you Okay, I think that's Way to go. Okay. Good. Um, so that also applies to The applications i'm submitting. Um, originally the structures and the class two roadway grants that the trans does The deadline was going to be april 15th, but they pushed it back to May 15th So that gives me a little more time to do stuff at the same time It also adds a little more uncertainty about when we'll know whether we have that funding or not Obviously if we don't get the funding this year, we won't be doing that work So the home you said class four roads, I apologize. No class two. Thank you.  Uh, if you remember cricket did the, uh engineering design for Neeson brook, which is the culvert below terry's on feffel mountain road That needs to be a replacement because the work we've done up till now has just been temporary so, um, the plan has been to submit first structures grant for that replacement And combine that with the rogers brook Cross drains or it's actually a culvert that better roads That was an application I put into better roads. Hmm. I'm forgetting now when that was february january. I can't remember now um Those two would be done as basically two parts of a single project with one contractor bidding on both um And that's the other thing that we hope will go ahead but We'll have to see whether you know when and if those grants are actually made and when we can do construction Um, and then I'm also planning to submit a structures grant just for engineering work on helbrough, which is up on townline road um cricket and and uh cooter went to go look at that Maybe three weeks ago or so and That's also been a temporary fix and it's in pretty bad shape And I don't know if you know that culvert. I haven't seen it until last week It's in this big dip in the road And uh any big brainstorm Hopefully not like the one we've just had today. Uh could really uh do a lot of damage on that site That was a temporary fix a few years ago also And needs attention. So that would just be engineering and hopefully if we get that grant I mean if nothing else certainly cricket, that's something that cricken can do Um, because obviously it's not construction at this point. Um Uh everything is just topsy-turvy right now when it comes to all this stuff. So, you know, we'll just have to see what happens um Same message basically for the fema projects. I've been working with cooter to put together Very simple bid packages For the work that still has to be done on some of those incomplete roads um And I have to find out from fema what their policy is or or will be With respect to doing construction in the short term But meanwhile we'll just have that stuff ready to go and if we're lucky Maybe we'll be able to do some of them Uh late summer or fall and just get that work done Um, I also have to check on how long we have to complete these projects Uh under the current fema grant. There there is a deadline. I can't remember what it is And I don't have my files with me on that at the moment But I will also look into an extension if we need one and I'm assuming they would grant that because everybody's Going to be on the same boat Yeah And uh big Is that for culvert replacement? I'm sorry, which is that for culvert replacement? Which which one are you? The last one you were talking about with cooter and is that uh, yeah, that's how brook up on town line road That's a culvert. Yes. Yep And and the culverts on jerusalem and that that's all part of a grant too. Is that correct? That's that's under fema. Those are cross drains there I think they're like one culvert, but that's all fema there Okay. Yeah, and uh, we're we're still waiting to hear back from fema on Whether they're funding that or not there's there seem to be a possibility that they first they said no, we're not going to fund that and then Uh, when cooter went out in the field with them a number of months ago now It seemed more likely that they would so hopefully they will because there's like 21 of them or something that needs to be replaced Um, and so also the I'm sure you have a question about the status of reimbursement for federal highway on bethle mountain road and the the fema work that's been completed and it's still in the works I've been in touch with both the fema representative and thought we work with and with uh v trans about the reimbursements and Anytime they come up with another question You know, where's the proof that you spent this amount of money on that project? I've been providing it to them. I think they have everything that they want from us at this point Though you never know when it's over till it's over, but both of them are proceeding along. I know that And dune I or did I send that to all of you? I'm sorry. I don't remember There was an email from dead pierce woman. I'm working with a v trans who said she's working really hard to have the reimbursement for bethle mountain road to us by june So I am due to check in with her again this week and see how she's doing Well, that would be good if you could keep on top of that one. Yeah, yeah I think I sent you my email about that where I sort of made a plea And she got the message so she should be working on it Um, and then I want to make sure you remember that we have a special meeting on Wednesday, I think it's wednesday april 22nd To open the bid submitted for the west hill bridge replacement project The bids are all going to be coming in electronically And we'll set up a zoom meeting. I don't know who's you know, who's going to want to attend But I guess that's what we need to do make it a full and open Open public meeting It's for what I'm sorry. Excuse me. Joan. I didn't hear west hill bridge replacement. Thank you Uh, this is being fully funded both the engineering and then the construction itself which will be next year This is fully funded by us far of service So So the rfp has advised the bidders that we're not going to be making any decisions at the meeting because it has to go through a technical review Um, uh, and we need to make sure that obviously at the review who follows the federal guidelines. Um, so that anyway At least two of you need to be there and if all three of you can That would be great and I'll be asking uh, julie to set up a zoom for us You want to set a time? Oh, oh, I'm sorry. Um Let me look quickly at my calendar. I think it's I think it's four o'clock Or I think so. Let me just check. I've got my calendar right here Yeah Sorry That will be set up electronically through zoom. Yeah, julie will set it up through zoom Uh, and the last malice I said, I don't know if yet if you had a chance to look at your email Oh, I wanted to I did want to say that we have we had 13 Uh engineering firms who showed in who asked for the rfp Of course, not necessarily all 13 are going to bid but I think that's a pretty good sign that You're probably hungry and looking for some work like this. Is that for the west tail bridge? Yeah, that's for the west tail bridge. Yeah um Okay, so that's it for construction and then I just wanted to point out by Fairly late the afternoon. It was like 4 30 or so. I sent all of you um An email that came from uh vlct And apparently there's uh some movement afoot to in montpelier to request that the state take out a loan to uh fund the education fund And the school district taxes that ordinarily, you know towns are going to be paying they're going to come do in but may june And the idea is to ask the town to take out. I'm sorry the state to take out a loan Instead and make either some or all the payments that are due on behalf of the towns Because towns, you know, like rochester are all having expecting difficulties with revenues from uh property tax payments So it seems like it's just in the very beginning stages Is it was a rather eloquent request that came in from the town of colchester, which I guess vlct is working on now So you'll have that on in your emails if you haven't seen it yet. Yeah. Yeah. I second the motion. That's a good idea Yeah, and actually I uh vlct was asking if you want to contact Our state reps and and senators and asked them please to support it So that's all I have Certainly is something we ought to do Yeah, that's a that's a big that's a biggie there. Yeah, I mean if nothing else I think a lot of towns are all going to be in the same boat. So they got to do something Yeah, so that's that kind of speaks to the the addition that you wanted to add to the agenda frank about the education payment come and do And it sounds like that's um You know, we should definitely make some noise around that. Yeah Yeah, and I was kind of hoping sandy was going to be here Tonight so we could put the bug in her ear at sooner Then later. Yeah Well, I'll give her a call after after the meeting to um put the bug in the rear. Yeah Yeah, good idea. Yeah All right, so um Thank you, Joan. Is there anything else or is that that covered pretty much? Yeah, that's it for now. No, that's a lot. Thank you Thank you for um Well, I'm glad you didn't have to drive all the way over the mountain in a rainstorm to join us I'm just doing that actually Yep, so the only um Is not anyone here to speak on behalf of the library but things are pretty quiet around there as they are um around the rest of town The um No one tutors not here from the highway department We've been blessed by a relatively easy mud season so far. I mean there's of course a few potholes um popping up here and there but they're um, you know You know checking the culverts and and we're gonna get working on grading the roads. So we're um I guess we're um No big fires there in the road department And terry is not here to speak about the utilities, but um while we're on the utility aspect of the agenda Nick do you want to speak about your concern about the um the town water? You're muted right now, but there you go So if uh, I just have a question this is Amy If we as townspeople decided to write a petition and send it to the state could we get that chlorinated water to stop or is that not possible? um I don't know if it's possible or not. It is uh, I don't know if you read or not sandy haas said a pretty eloquent letter written to the anr Presenting our case and our request not to do that and that was um Pretty clearly denied. I did hear and someone um speaking With the governor and it came to light that he was not aware that this chlorination mandate had been imposed upon the small town. So um I think that perhaps um You know knocking on that door is is um Would be worthwhile, but but yeah our initial um request to um to Ask for a waiver or a variance around this were not um There was no vehicle for a waiver and it's um and it should be clear that there is no Problem with the water. There is no contamination and there's no evidence that the virus had spread Through that mechanism. Anyway, so it's really they the way they put it it was In an abundance of caution. They wanted to minimize the chance of anyone They figured they chlorinate everybody and and kill off any germs that are in us So it was less likely that we'd go to the hospital. Unfortunately, I don't know if it's um if it can to health or or um Or uh hinders health having that chlorination personally I'm not drinking it But oh, I am It's um I guess I did see sandy's letter and I did see that she made that effort and I Watched it on front porch for him being discussed. I just was curious if there's any way to I mean if a petition was signed to send to the state so Maybe I'll look into that and then see if it'll make any difference I mean sometimes when voters talk to the governor things can happen. So yeah, yeah Well, it was interesting to me that the governor was not aware of this. So I think that's where to start making some noise Definitely. I mean it seemed we were told that it was a governor man. So that's that's where it broke down Yeah, yeah Oh, yeah It's not You're trying to make coffee or tea. It's just It's awful Um, I'm from a spring right now, but that means we're getting on the road and we're driving to go to spring to get water So that's not really good either to be leaving the town to go get water No, that was one of the points that sandy made in her letter that it was contrary to the Stay-at-home request order made by the governor if his people are being forced to leave their homes to go get palatable water um the There is a spring now that's running up on um fisk road that is um Um Ben Falk connected that up and he had he installed it last summer actually.  So anyway, you know, we don't have to drive all the way to stock bridge Nancy um in a in a press release brian redmond who is the drinking water and ground water protection person indicated by rule community water systems have to have the capability to disinfect and they were instructed to disinfect When the state of emergency is over. So is the instruction quote unquote Yeah, so I guess we'll see how long we're in a state of emergency Found it. Yeah Terry a couple days ago and he said all his reports have been Looked at by the state and we're in good Uh standing with him and he was hoping that he wouldn't have to keep doing this for very much longer That's what he was hoping Dune, can I ask a question quickly? Um, I want to make sure I have this correct. Um You looked into a requesting a waiver for this you you talked to someone from the yeah, sandy haas actually wrote a pretty eloquent letter to agency of natural resources then Julie more Julie more that was but um, and then that was um and and asking specifically if there was a waiver process and was informed that indeed there was not and this order was Made at the Just uh effort to be overly cautious in this Ptenuous situation we're all in Okay, um, thank you very much. Yeah. No, thank you. Might as well have it clear Well, I I get confused sometimes when people talk really fast and I can't write can't write as fast as he talks So Let's see the um Um, so while we're on this topic which leads into the whole covet situation Um Frank you wanted to ask vick some questions and vick is here with us tonight. You want to um, you want to continue with that Sure, uh, there's just a couple of questions. I was wondering how the the home shopping's going Is that being utilized much or? uh Yeah, frank. We've had uh 17 deliveries and in the first two weeks Uh, we've got a great team of volunteer drivers. Uh, sue. My wife has organized this and it's been aided by uh cash advances from the Rebuild Rochester foundation that then gets reimbursed by the people who receive the groceries So we're we have to work around what max is able to do in terms of of they can't take Telephone charges and so we we have a whole process in place to To deal with that it seems to be working out a little cumbersome, but it works out people are very grateful and It's going well at this point. So that's great. So good and it's it includes Rochester and Hancock Yeah, Dorothy Robson is coordinating the work in Hancock and I've talked to Bruce Hyde and the select board in grandville. They're They're thinking about doing something similar, but they would probably do it with dan sergeants store up there, which The dan will take telephone orders and pack things up for per side delivery. So So so far so good That's good. How about the food shelf? Is that being hit harder now or you know? It's interesting Catherine shankman and I were over there today. We met with Kevin and Ruth McLaughlin and And I'd never been to the food shelf before Actually be there. So we got a good sense of how it works and what their numbers are I'd called the food bank up in berry a couple days ago They they deliver food to all food shelves in the state And they said they are gearing up for a major increase in demand over the next several months because of the You know the economic conditions and the loss of employment and so forth and Indeed the numbers they gave me for the Rochester food shelf said that the numbers here had doubled between january and march veggie van go which is a food delivery free food service that giford offers I was told by bethany silo a that their numbers had had doubled from about 250 families in March to over 500 in April they've already done their april distribution And so the indicators are that the demand is going to increase significantly. So we did have some conversation with Kevin and Ruth about dealing with that and and So you may see some solicitation for more donations of money to the food shelf, which would be a great thing if You know the need goes up and so so this is um, you know one of the things that we're looking at As maybe so the next wave of activity is going to be around food security Not just here, but really everywhere. There's been articles in the paper about all over the country food demand is is up pretty significantly from food shelf operations I I would I want to thank you guys for doing such a good job with the newsletter It's really a lot of good information there that comes out I think it's a good you guys have done a great job there. Thank you Yeah, rob rob gardener and uh, lizzie shack. Are you having another newsletter soon? Yeah, there's one coming out this week Um, could you just put a little bone in there about the census? About the census. Oh, um, I'm not if rob is on the line I'm not sure if we've put the put the issue to bed or not But if we can put something out on social media Even if it's not it doesn't necessarily have to be this next one But maybe down the road just to bone people up to do the census I mean, we mentioned it at now meeting but not everybody attends and your mailer gets to about everybody in town and I think it's an important thing we need to do and Whether people take care of it or not I don't know but if we put the plug out there it might be that's a good way to do it Well, we've done the mailer every week for the past. I think this would be the fifth week And we we think that it's probably not needed on a weekly basis at this point But uh, you know as issues come up and as I say there are other Ways to get the word out to the public And we'll do that Excuse me. Could I mention since you're talking about food and everything? I talked to erica herrington down at the school Today and that meal delivery thing that they've been doing there for the kids She said they've been doing an averaging a hundred Children every week that they've been giving meals to You know, they're that the monday wednesday friday meal deliveries Yeah So that's for breakfast and lunch breakfast and lunch and Each day they get the meals for two days of those two And you can pick them up at the school and also one of the school buses is going out and has a route To drop them off for people who can't do that. So I just thought that that has to do with food security and everything Yeah, you know the whole issue Really needs to be looked at comprehensively for For the area and I've been talking about that with uh, monaco columns and bruise hide There are a variety of different sources of Free and low-cost food for an increasing number of people who are going to need it And uh, you know, how good a job we're doing overall versus what we could be doing and You know, what are the resources available? All that needs to be looked at and we're going to start working on that Martha, uh, was that two schools the hundred kids? Is that both schools or just our school? I believe it was for both because I got um, um, I got an email from Erica herrington with some school news He had said rochester and stockbridge school news and she mentioned the the figure of a hundred kids So I believe it was for the combined two schools. Yes That is correct. It was for both schools. I did put a um bolted up on the town website Good So the let me see leave that for now I guess frank the um Joan kind of answered are your questions about the road work and whether grants are going to be Coming in I guess that's going to be a moving target and we'll see Today when I was in the town office there looking over some bills and uh asked him about gravel how much need and You know, we just paid a bunch This month for what he hauled and there's a pretty good stock pile up here But he figured he'd probably have if he didn't Go overboard with with resurfacing this year and and really chose Well, he he looked at maybe he'd have Maybe half enough up here now to do what he has normally would do So we'd be looking at some more money there for gravel at some point So just to put the bug out there for you. Yeah Yeah That is traditionally um in the past has been Something that got us in trouble as a gravel budget was the easiest one to start picking away at and and cut in When things got tight, but this might be a year where we have to resort to that Yeah, yeah That's what I was thinking too So that that ties into your request to talk about the you know, the budget committee and how the The needs versus wants and how you know, we're going to at some point sit down and kind of look at what we pass for budget and and See what the projections are going to show us and see where we can start pinching some pennies Um, that's going to be an ongoing project See got In terms of um Voting and how we're going to work that in the fall election. It's good to bring that up and put it on the radar I don't know if we need to discuss exactly How we're going to approach that at this meeting, but it's definitely something to Um To look at and see how the mail-in voting is going to evolve around the country in terms of its usability and legitimacy so that's um I guess that's to be continued Yeah, I believe that uh, most of that will be controlled by the state. Anyways, I agree. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I think it will but I think uh on a On a with our geography, we're going to have to figure out some avenue of how to Proceed with whatever the state recommends we do Yeah, you know, I mean as far as how we handle it If if they allow mail-in voting, it's one thing But if they don't then we're going to have to figure out some way to do Person voting where we still keep the distance Yeah, if this thing is still here and I got a feeling it will be You know this things couldn't draw out for quite a while Could be a drive-by voting thing you drive up to one booth and check in and And pull ahead and mark your choice and then drive up to the next one and let it out Sanitize it. Yeah. Yeah, what a mess Yep um So in that um, I'm gonna save this for now. We've got um You know, show these we've got a couple things that um, we have the uh In terms of the new business, we've got an approval of the able waste management agreement for 2020-2021 You know that's um at the town meeting people pretty much um Well that pretty much a voted to approve the recycling this isn't the recycling budget though This is the waste management No, it's recycling. This is the recycling. So there you go. That's um It's um, you know, the town did vote to approve that but is um, is that something we want to Drag our feet on and something that we would we need to really cut expenses. There's um, there's a big chunk right there But then again, we have the same agreement or the argument that We're saving a lot of people from driving out of town to get rid of their trash And it's it's a good service to have so excuse me Do you and I was going to say not only is it recycling and trash, but he also offers a compost service composting, right? I take advantage of and I'm sure what other people do yeah so um It's um What do you think the other select people on this should we go ahead and execute this this agreement? I think we should go ahead with it. Um, it was strongly supported at town meetings. So, um Providing the service in town is probably the better way to go even now Yep Yeah, I I'd have to go on with that. I think it's it's something we really have to We we should offer Yep I'd I'd move to uh To approve and execute that that agreement and then we can sign it individually At a distance Yep, and I Second that in all in favor. All right. All right, that's unanimous I believe that I saw that the uh food composting is being pushed back until january 1st it is it's um I know they're talking did they finally make that decision? I know they were entertaining pushing that back. What do you mean? Legislature the legislature Require relaxing the requirements on the food composting and perhaps even recycling um in the current situation just to um Make things a little easier on everybody. Okay, but we still be allowed to do it, of course Yes, no, I don't know what they um, yeah, probably and For a while maybe a year. I think I've been bringing the compost. Yeah, they may not be required to Deliver it to a composting facility. They may be allowed to just dump it along with the trash in that situation, but Yes, I hope not. Yeah We also have the um for the approval of the white river alliances Wants to host a household hazardous waste day on august 15th saturday august 15th and um, I would I would move to approve that in the um one in the optimism that things will maybe Um be relaxed a little bit more by then, but it's also a situation where I've observed it It's not a a crowded situation. I think that people could come and deposit their their waste in a in a safe way So I'd I'd move to approve that request. Oh, what do you guys say about that? I can second that Yeah, yeah all in favor All right. All right. All right look at that Um Then we come down into the new business carol. Um, you're up. You had uh requested to um, you had an idea of Suggesting a walking maze Yes I don't know what happened in the uh I'm seeing someone's face here and before I was seeing the meeting I was seeing different people. But anyway, can you hear me? I can hear you. Yeah. Oh, okay So I had a thought that came to me and I agree along with Um frank here and some of you that this is going to go on longer than um than we think and um I had an idea of something maybe the town could do and Is a walking labyrinth maze which Is a walking meditative exercise that Is good for adults and children And it could be done in a very large circle and you would mow a design in the grass in this round circle Where you could go in one end and come out the other And it's very large because you have the the width of a lawn mower And then you have the grass in between the designs and then it just goes into a labyrinth design and um, and then you have enough at the other end you would come out the other end and um It would have to be done in the early spring because that's when the grass is coming up And it's just good for the soul the body and the mind And I think it would be something since we're I don't think we're going to be doing a lot of gatherings And I think it would be something that would be Um, like I say meditative I actually had a vision of maybe the flags that are at the farmer's market or the flags at the harvest fair being um Two to walk into and then two at the far end where you could come out of so there's a beginning and an end and just uh The walking meditative exercise While this is going on and then when this all ends we can Mow it unless people really enjoy it and then maybe we could keep it So it'd be clear you're talking about doing this on the park the downtown park Actually, I took a look at um, the park And I don't think there is a place big enough And I also looked at the park down by the firehouse and I don't think that's big enough So I think the only place really to do it is probably Um, and I couldn't do this by myself a design has to come up I did mention it to robert finkel and he liked the idea I thought it was a nice idea a good idea and um Like I like I said, I couldn't do this myself The design has to come up and then the person that mows the lawn Would have to it would have to be okay that it was it was done. It would just be something that could be enjoyed by the town's people and So where did you have in mind carol if not the park or the other either park? So I'm thinking the only place that's probably big enough is down by the school You mean like one of the ball fields Um an area that's flat and yeah one of the ball fields I said, you know, eventually it gets mowed if when and if this all ends But something to do for the summer or you could get out walk and meditate at the same time and just Came to me and I just thought I needed to express my opinion to the town Do you have an idea about the diameter of how big of a space you actually need? I don't I just know that it should be round if you go online and you look up um Labyrinth mazes you can see there's many many different designs It would be simple because we certainly don't want whoever mows it to Get nutty. We just wanted to So I have a question um, they there was a Sign put up saying that all the fields down at the school and the skate space and everything playground or the federal were close to the public now Because of the I don't Yeah, I don't think they want groups of people, but this is something you do by yourself And where you come into it versus where you go out of it Is quite a far distance Depending on how big it is So you're thinking about this being uh, uh one person at a time. Yes. It's one person at a time um with or without dogs did this There's there's still some more questions about that and yes the recreation areas at the school um You'd have to get the person of the school Not necessarily the town for that I don't know who mows the um The school grass The town mows the ball fields. Um that are down by the tennis courts, right? Well, isn't that because we owe them? Yeah, the town owns the fields by the tennis courts where the two Baseball diamonds are in the back stops and then the um The big hay field in between that and the school is owned by bill thrill kill and the town the only um big town School-owned fields that have got the smaller ball field and then the soccer field behind the school Should be the two two places there I think had he had the right idea there dune I think we should check the deed on that to make sure that if it's not used for Um athletics or whatever it might revert back to farmland Because I know when we did the power line going back down to the school years ago The only way we could get right away through that Long stretch there from mr. Kirby was to put it underground And we when went failed that one year we tried to bring it back up overhead just to save on But we never could do the field behind the school there Yeah, we're missing. You know remember mr. Kirby there live. Yeah, we're uh, what I forget what the heck Well, her name is now there now Jeff and Nancy madder live there now. I think or no your lives there Yeah, uh, yeah, mcfetress But you know, he may have had some kind of You know thing in there because I'm sure that came with that was a piece that the town may be purchased with a idea in mind to Use it for athletics, but then when it got You know if they ever changed the use on it It might have to revert back to farmland that I'm just saying that could be an issue there We we need to make sure that that wouldn't be an issue for any changes we make down there. I would say We just have to research it Yeah, well, it's um Carol it's a interesting idea and it's um, I guess we should you know, it's put out here now to How many we got 15 people in this meeting and I think that it's um We'll um think about it, you know, if we can't drum up some interest Okay. Yep It's just an idea of something that we can do while this is going on right and that's something that on the the the COVID task force was also one of our thoughts was How do we um instill some optimistic things into the town instead of just managing bad news And so that this is this would be a step in the in that direction this also kind of segues into the issue that they're the idea that I had put on the agenda about developing a garden allotments I love that idea I love that idea and that is sudden I was thinking of the the town property which is the ball fields behind the tennis courts which is It is in the flood plain, but it's also right next to the river which makes it easy to get to get water Um, it's where the town is paying now currently to mow it and it's being used predominantly by dog walkers Which is um, which is nice, but um, I think that um, we've done a little bit of research on um, the allotments and and it would be something where You know, it is a small contract drawn up and in a small fee for um And then there's issues of you know, does it need to be fenced in so It keeps people's dogs and in deer and what have you from tromping through it you know if I'm thinking like a 12 by 24 plot for 50 bucks a season to run it and you know if the town Or we got a volunteer farmer with a tractor mounted rototiller to do an initial you know, um cultivating and and Get some manure in there. It's just it's thought and then if we're also looking at some food insecurity going forward they um You know, you can eat canned beans till the cows come home, but where are you going to get fresh produce? That's that's the catch, you know, and um Anyway, that's um Dude, what do you envision the water source being for the gardens? Um, well initially I think that being adjacent to the river people could just get some buckets of water, but um I would being in the flood plain we'd have to verify that it's allowable, but we could build like the picnic structure down in the new park was allowed in the flood plain because it's The main bulk of the structure is raised up and the water can run through it and if we had a water tank up on stilts That um, we could fill with a pump once a week or something. We could you know pretty easily do a little little hose system in there um so But being right, you know initially right next to the river you could you know, just um awesome buckets over There used to be a water fountain right at the corner of the tennis court that Yeah had uh It went out with Irene Yeah, oh, okay. Yeah But in terms of you know, um, I wasn't thinking of hooking the water source into the town water so much because Who wants to water their garden with chlorine anyways? Hopefully it'll go be hopefully it'll be gone. Yeah I'll make a comment, Jim. Yep So in my experience in the city This kind of thing's really popular And we love it. However The issue of water when you consider depending how big the plot is becomes a real serious thing. So Uh, and I guess washington dc when char was involved in one of these things Uh, they had a spigot there But even with the spigot when you consider the amount of water people were hauling to their Plots and how heavy water is and everything else that became like one of the most Difficult problems in the in the whole thing. So I think that's a functional issue The other thing is they always look pretty ramshackle These these places in the city each person have their own thing. They have their own style Their own pilot junk They're all complete and they and they look pretty ram ramshackle. So how they how they look may not matter I don't know. You're talking about a big visible area out there And uh, I I don't know how you try to get people or if you should get people. Well, they um, they the um I was kind of cruising some Um some Guidelines for uh, existing Allotment systems and they get very specific about Um, you know What's allowed what's not allowed how much or where do you put your compost?  You know, don't want someone building a shed and moving in down there But uh, yeah I downloaded from our town in main their guidelines for community gardens Yeah, um, which is pretty specific and you can pick and choose from it and I'll leave it over with julie tomorrow Yeah, that would be interesting to see so you can look at it. We definitely would have to have some Some directions there and directives so it's not they even have applications Yeah, yeah I know in in england. There is even waiting List there's some of these some of these plots. I saw as far as a 17 year waiting list for people access to these plots I think it's a very interesting idea, but I think it's probably a fairly big project You know, yeah, it would be um, it would be It'd definitely be something to take on frank.  What are you thinking? Town and and I have to agree with robb on it, you know, hey Um, the one that comes to mind for me is the one there's one at the college down in south roe open on that going out towards hurricane flats past the high school and there's probably three gardeners there That garden and there's probably eight others that have weeds So it's a mish match of like robb was saying it can look kind of hideous If if they're not cared for that would be my biggest fear on putting a community garden And it's fine if if you've got people that really attend to them and having garden as much as I have in my life I know how easily they can be uh, they can get away from you Yeah, I I have big gardens too I mean after the fruit starts ripening I don't weed So they look like crap when you by the time to get around Uh, but I do get a lot of food often too. So yeah, it's really up to what people want I I I have there's pros and cons to it But if people really want it and they want to put the effort into growing stuff It's great. But if they don't then it's you know, it turns to it becomes a A public nuisance really So you can limit how many sites you have to Yes, it does make a difference Yeah, but it's really if if you had some rules about it I You know, I don't know if you make one rule you got to make two because you forgot something in the first rule Uh, you pretty I don't know There's a lot of The agency of natural resources would not want us putting any type of phosphorus fertilizer down by the river It's got to be all organic. Yeah Yeah Well They certainly put the Organic can be high phosphorus too Yes, it can no question about it But I don't know it's something to think about I don't I guess it'd be interesting to see how much interest there There was you know, if we um, if there are people that would You know come on, you know, I guess we put it out there and martha you can put it in the paper that I mentioned Yeah, how much worth as a thought and if um, if there is It'd be and we're curious to see what is the interest in such a project and if You know It's uh, this is strange time and it might be worth doing something a little little creative to to um Again, only you know bring some fresh food to some families But I was just thinking, um, you know the our farmers market has been very popular the last couple of years on the park And who knows if we're going to be able to have that this summer right now. There's a moratorium on on the farmers market, right? I mean, there's a number of things that we might not be able to have this summer But that was one I was thinking of Um, so yeah, I mean I I rely on the Stuff in the farmers market because I can't have a garden anymore I can't physically do a lot of the garden work, but um Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people might be interested people like me Maybe who live in the village and maybe they physically can do it, but they don't have the land for it or something or You know I think yeah, anyway, it's uh putting it out there start that discussion, you know Come to it Yeah, I don't know why you wouldn't want to just to see if there's interest It could be good Yeah, yeah All right. We ought to check to make sure we could do that with that Right, so if there's any legalities in the deed, I have no idea It it could be a little reminder of the bingo property there years ago with the school, you know once the school Got rid of it. It had to go to forest service land or whatever. I know there was a stipulation in that deed where he couldn't have a building on it or anything so All right Frank one other thing that you had brought up which we should mention again is the The hearing before the next select board meeting on the town plan And julia, I believe that the the draft for that is available on the town website. Is that correct? Yes, it should be it should be all right because that's what people would wonder about how they could go and see that I know we had had a physical copy at the town office for people to see but obviously that's not something we're encouraging right now Yeah Can I jump in for one minute dune? Sure. Um, how long does the meetings usually go on? Um, the select board meetings. Yes Boy, you never know. I've had them as quick as 15 minutes and as long as a couple hours a couple three four hours Okay Um, I I'm just I'm going to say bye now, but I want to commend everyone on That is here And all that you do for the town it's very impressive and um, I just want to commend everyone That worked so hard for our town. So I am gonna I am going to say bye And thank you for letting me put my idea forth No, absolutely great idea for coming out and um, hopefully I'll hear something and And talk about it more. Okay, and I love the gardening idea I think that's wonderful because I think so I think people will come out and want to do it People are thinking about home gardening more. That's for sure So thank you all and again, thank you for all that you do All right, you're welcome A quick question before you get started. Did you said that hearing on the town plan before the next select board meeting? Or did you mean like at the next floor before we'll have a special meeting for the the the hearing on the town plan before the The select board meeting Like board meetings at six the hearing would be like maybe We would probably have the the hearing at six and then the select board to follow Okay The hearing notice as a six o'clock six o'clock. Yeah. Thank you. I just want to make sure I had that correct in the paper And then also to make clear that you can access the draft on the town website if people have questions about this is a plan that was already had a public hearing with the planning board and where public had the first in the largest Well, not the largest but an opportunity to make comments and Some of those were incorporated into the plan. So this is this um This should not be considered like a. Oh my god. I I can't miss this right This is my chance and then we're going to turn around and start rewriting the plan in a couple years Again, it's a constantly moving thing, but this is um part of the process is the planning board Creates the plan and Presents it to the public and then incorporates the public Comments and then presents it to the select board which then Brings it up again for the public to see and then adopts it. So that's the process here Okay, that's a good idea frank to to mention that again All right, we've got um Because I think that I'm running out of Oh, frank had one more question. He mentioned should the board meet more often. Uh, yeah. Yeah Yeah, what do you what do you this it seems like a real long time This because occasionally we get these three weeks in between because of this last one, but um, I am I have um, I don't know what to your what's your thoughts frank. So what would you like to do? Well, I I don't I don't really have any thoughts about it. I just wondered if if the You know the situation we're in warrants more a little more contact but I don't know I I think uh it's it's kind of like I think maybe we will can revisit that if Things get worse down the road. I think and maybe and I did call Vermont league of cities and towns and if we do need a To go into executive session. We can do that In an open meeting We just have to sign off from this Right, probably talk on the phone or whatever in an executive session situation And then join the meeting again And if we do it on a special meeting You'd have to have a warning that we're going to have a meeting open a meeting close the meeting Right that could right and then come back So They said that was legal to do if we needed it. I I don't suspect we do we just have to Then communicate any decisions that were made Or actions taken at in the executive session. So we can yeah, in fact, we have one warned for Tonight after this meeting and I I could monitor and it would just basically You know have everyone sign off and then the three of us can stay on and then we can I guess We could communicate back to to Julie and how to do that with orca media and turning off the camera turning on the camera, but um, It's not um, I think a lot of it's it's not um Um Yeah, it's But back to the topic of of meeting more often I guess I feel like I've been meeting a lot with the task the the task force that we've been meeting twice a week and it's um And so I'm I'm feeling Meeting out it's awkward that we can't have this All more of the select board involved with it without it being a public warned meeting And then it it makes it less agile for sure. So we've been Trying to communicate and so the letters that we've been sending out weekly have kind of served as a to keep the public and everyone Connected with what we're what we're talking about in the decisions that we're trying to make to to keep things going but um, we can totally warn A special meeting, you know with a 24 hour notice advance and we can have an emergency meeting without any advance Um, if something really drastic comes up. So we do we do have the ability to to meet more often Okay, that's that's fine with me. I just I was just throwing it out there because I'm new to this I don't really know And it was a long time since our last meeting because of the way the month fell that you know, it's the second In fourth monday and then that gave us three weeks instead of two this last one And there are several select boards that are meeting weekly now like over in Bethel. They are They decided to do that. But I mean, it's it's all in what I don't think they have a task force, but I'm not sure I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think Bethel does have a task. Oh, they do. You're right. You're right. They do. I'm sorry. Excuse me So, I guess we're good with it then if you guys are happy I'm I'm fine with it I mean any time that any one of us Feel the need to to gather and call a meeting we can we can do that Just have to warn. Yeah You could probably check with you Um, Frank if you were looking for a specific information you could check with rob Who's the director of emergency management and heading the task force if you had a question? He could probably give you some information about Okay, I was thinking more along the budget I don't see info and and that's And they're very likely there are we're going to have to sit down and talk about some of that stuff Sooner than later. Yeah That that was my More of an issue for me than Than what everybody I think is doing a good job We do have a line of credit that we had Established for the belco mountain road project. It's still an open line of credit with Some availability to it. So we do have a little bit of a cushion of credit to sit back on if we need right Burma, did you have a question? Yeah, I just wanted to raise this question The vermont department of natural resources may have limitations on whether or not people can take water out of rivers and streams to Water gardens because I know that there was a time when people were thinking about setting up little pumps to get watered for their gardens and it wasn't allowed by the state of vermont. So I'm just throwing that in the mix while you have that idea for roiling around. Okay. No, that's good. Okay Yeah, I had that in my notes from it. It's Yeah all right, uh, is there um Anything else that anyone wants to talk about before we move into the executive session Uh and just uh frank, I'd be happy to work with you brainstorming for voting options Okay That's fine. I I'll be in touch with you Okay And I can I can also send you information frank that I get from the state Okay, that'd be good to know I just Want to make sure we have some options that yeah We can adapt because this thing changes so much and it may it may be mute A moot point at the time we have the election, but if it doesn't if it's not then at least we have options. Yeah That's all I'm trying to Figure out great All right, so um, thank you all for joining us. At least we didn't have to drive out in the rain So patty and frank can stay on And we can have our executive session and everyone else can click out Thank you everybody. Thanks for your hard work


So, let's start with this. So, NFC is, as Boone mentioned, we're seeing it in many different industries today. You see it in consumer home appliances, healthcare, transportation. So the use cases are growing. Apple has been opening up the phone support for that with iOS 13 last year. The Apple phones opened up to allow you to write to tags. We see that trend continuing with the Apple Worldwide Developers Conference a couple of weeks ago. It seems iOS 14 is going to open up even more NFC features. There's even discussion of how your phone will be able to use to access your car to open the door. So now let's go a little bit more in detail. Some use cases, one at a time to give you some ideas of how this might fit into your products. One of the most popular uses and simple uses of an NFC tag is the ability with a single tap to tap on a tag and go directly to a web page. An example of doing this might be to get a web page for further instructions or details on a product or perhaps a YouTube video that helps you set up the product or learn more about it. This is done by a very special NFC message called an NDEF message, which is the NFC data exchange format. So when your phone sees a message of this type, it does an automated activity. Very similar to the web page is the tap and get an app. You could put a tag on your getting started manual, not even in your product, and somebody could take their phone and tap on the getting started manual, go directly into the app store to get the correct app that accompanies your product without hunting around and searching for it. Smart access control. I'm sure many of you have been to a hotel with and received an NFC enabled room key. It's much more reliable, less likely to get erased than the Mag Stripes that you have if you put it with your phone, but we see this access control for rooms and cabinets, medical devices, et cetera. Maybe you've seen a Bluetooth enabled speaker with an NFC tag in it. Perhaps you're at a park or the beach and somebody's playing music. You come up and you say, hey, have you guys heard this song? And so you could just take your phone over, tap on that speaker without going through a complicated pairing procedure. You can take over the speaker and play the song. I just want to point out that this is not just for Bluetooth, although that's a popular example. You could use this to exchange credentials for Ethernet, ZigBee, Laura are pretty much any kind of a connectivity situation. Tap and identify is a popular use of an NFC tag. For example, if you have a wine bottle that has a tag on it, maybe you tap that wine bottle in the store and you get more information, reviews, maybe you're enjoying that wine bottle and it takes you to a web page where you can order another case. Also, it's a good way to make sure a product is authentic. You could embed a tag into the fabric of a shoe, for instance, and you could detect whether it's a clone or genuine. Transportation is a popular use of NFC. I'm sure many of you have been on a subway or a mass city bus where you've tapped with an NFC card. Parameter setting. Here's the use case. If you notice on the bottom right of the chart, it says dynamic tag. The dynamic tag will allow you to update perhaps a unit under test in a factory, maybe while it's being tested or maybe the unit isn't even powered up. With the NFC field, you could update the test that it's passed, the test results, and later the unit could power up and retrieve those results or you could retrieve it with your test system. Similar to that is the dynamic tag. Now imagine your products out in the field. I'll use the example of an air-conditioned service technician that's on a route to service commercial air conditioners. Perhaps he takes his route and he taps the tablet on the unit to be serviced. You can see last time he was out, it required this much free-on. Maybe that could detect a leak. Maybe it's time to change a belt and then he could update the results and move on from there. Payment and home banking is another popular use of NFC. A lot of you are now doing touchless. This has gained more popularity during the COVID-19 pandemic, but it's also a little bit more reliable and even a faster transaction. Tap and power. This is one of my favorite eval boards we have here at ST. If you look, it's the ST eval smart tag one, which is available through our distribution partners or contact your local ST sales. What's unique about this board is it has the circle dynamic tag on there with the antenna embedded into the PC board. But not only can you access that dynamic tag, but there's an energy harvest output pin, which will take the NFC field supply of voltage out that is enough to power the micro and the sensors on this board. So you can get an instantaneous reading of the sensors with no other power supplied other than the NFC field from your phone. Accessory recognition is another popular use of NFC tags. In this picture, you see a drill. So the reader would be embedded into the base of the drill and the tags would be in the accessories. So you might detect, is this accessory compatible with this product? Maybe with the accessory, we got to make sure the drill motor only runs at a certain RPMs. Automotive is a very big growth area for NFC. We'd already discussed that NFC phones are moving through the connected car consortium to become access to the door. Also, it can be used to start the vehicle. And it's going to be commonplace to see the central console with the Qi charger and an NFC charger together. So you can put your phone down to charge and then it can automatically pair to the Bluetooth and Wi-Fi of the automobile. Now let's talk a little bit about the products and families that we have to help you with these use cases. First, let's talk about the categories and types of products. On the top of this slide, I want to highlight the NFC tags. So the NFC tags seem simple, but they've got the gates in there to do all kinds of authentication as we discussed. And the other thing I want you to remember is includes double E-prom. So this is a very big difference from a QR code because you can read and write to this double E-prom hundreds of thousands of times just like a regular double E-prom. The dynamic tags in the center of the chart also have the RF interface. And again, on board E-squared, but they also have a dual port out the other side, typically an I-squared C port, could be a PWM port. So you can interface to a micro or possibly pass all the way through. And on the bottom are readers. So we offer a family of readers. In some cases the phone can be the reader or you can do a design based on our reader IC. So here's a broad overview of our NFC tag family. On the far left you see the TV tags which are for transit. The TA tags, the next two columns over there ISO 14443A. You may want to use those for compatibility of an existing system or perhaps higher data rate. The TV tags are the ISO 15693 based. This will give you these type five tags. It'll give you a little bit more margin of error for range and RF. But still offers a wide variety from 512 bits up to 64K bits. Similarly, the dynamic tags with the extra port as we discussed. We have M24SR14443A and the ST25DV I-squared C, which is a pin for pin replacement of the M24LR. And we recommend that for new designs that supports type five. The reader family is extensive as well. We go from the low end with the ST25R95, which has 230 milliwatts of output power, up to the brand new ST25R3916 family, which begins with 1.6 watts of output power. Both the ST2595 and 3916 family offer card emulation. And the ST25R3911B family and 3916B family have automotive options for you. We have a vast array of enablement for you. Nucleo boards for your embedded code. Discovery kits to get you started. Reference designs with schematics and Gerbers and Bombs. Source code to help you with Android and iOS applications and PC software to help with your evaluation. Also, we have online tools to help you with your antenna design. On the left side of this chart, we're highlighting the eDesign Suite, which is for NFC tags. And the right side is a matching tool for readers. And also, we have applications engineers when you run into trouble where we can assist you further. All the NFC offerings from ST, as we're a partner and member of the NFC forum, have been through certification there. So you can be sure the tags, dynamic tags, and readers will be compatible and interoperable with other systems.


Mr. Speaker, this is a historic day in the history of the people of Central Asia, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is historic because we as the people are showing that we have confidence in ourselves, that we have confidence in our jurisprudence and we have confidence in the people of the region, Mr. Speaker. I'm Mr. Speaker, I'm proud and happy to be working with the men and women of the cabinet, the parliament, Mr. Speaker. And I want to thank the members of the session committee for the work they've done so far. And I'm sure that this work is going to continue, Mr. Speaker. Also, I want to pay special mention to the former prime minister, the Honourable Dr. Kenny Anthony, who began this journey into what is going to happen today, Mr. Speaker. This journey into manhood, this journey into confidence, and this journey into causing ourselves to be masters of our own destiny, Mr. Speaker. I want to thank Dr. Anthony for starting this process, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the bill for consideration is the constitution of St. Lucia amendment bill. Mr. Speaker, the purpose of the bill is to amend the constitution of St. Lucia, cap 1.0 on the Act, to modify provisions that allow for appeals to a Majesty Council and so provide for appeals to the Caribbean Court of Justice. Clause 1 of the bill contains a short title of the bill and clause 2 of the bill provides for the interpretation of the bill. Section 164 of the Act, enforcement of protected provisions, is amended in clause 3 of the bill, so that where a question is referred to the High Court in pursuance of section 3 of that section, the High Court shall give its decision on the question and the court in which the question arose shall dispose of the case in accordance with the decision, or if the decision is the subject of an appeal to the Court of Appeal to the Caribbean Court of Justice, rather than Her Majesty in Council, in accordance with the decision of the Court of Appeal or the Caribbean Court of Justice, rather than to Her Majesty in Council. By virtue of clause 4 of the bill, section 81 of the Act, interpretation and savings, is amended to remove the references to Her Majesty in Council and to substitute the Caribbean Court of Justice in the definition of the wood courts. In clause 5 of the bill, section 41-7 of the Act, alteration of the Constitution and Supreme Court Order is amended in paragraph E by changing section 107 to section 108 and referring to the Caribbean Court of Justice rather than Her Majesty in Council. This means that a referendum will not be required to alter the provisions relating to appeals to the Caribbean Court of Justice. Clause 6 of the bill, amend section 73-5 of the Act, control of public prosecutions, so that for the purpose of that section an appeal from a judgment in criminal proceedings before a court or a case stated or question of law reserved for the purpose of these proceedings to another court, including the Caribbean Court of Justice, rather than Her Majesty in Council, is deemed to be part of the proceedings. On the clause 7 of the bill, section 106-2 of the Act, reference of constitutional questions to High Court is amended, so that where a question is referred to the High Court in pursuance of the section, the High Court will give a decision on the question and the court in which the question arose will dispose of the case in accordance with the decision, or if the decision is subject to an appeal to the court of appeal or Caribbean Court of Justice rather than Her Majesty in Council in accordance with the decision of the court of appeal or as the case may be, the Caribbean Court of Justice rather than Her Majesty in Council. Section 108 of the Act appeals to a Majesty in Council is substituted in clause 8 of the bill to make an appeal from a decision of the court of appeal possible to the Caribbean Court of Justice rather than Her Majesty in Council. A new section 108A of the Act, abolition of appeals to a Majesty in Council is instituted on the clause 9 of the bill to abolish appeals to a Majesty in Council. Clause 10 of the bill, amend section 1241 of the Act interpretation to include definitions for the words Caribbean Court of Justice and Agreement and to include in definition of court the Caribbean Court of Justice. Mr Speaker, these amendments to the constitution of Saint Lucia would mean that all appeals to any matter taken up in the law court in Saint Lucia the final appeal will be to the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr Speaker instead of the Privy Council. This is the sum total of what we are doing today Mr Speaker. As I said earlier, the journey, this journey towards the point we are here today was continued in 2014 when the matter of a referendum was cleared by the court of appeal Mr Speaker saying that there was no referendum needed if Saint Lucia had to move from the Privy Council to the Court of Appeal. That was cleared by the Supreme Court of the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court Mr Speaker. It was cleared, the Court of Appeal. That was cleared. So that means that there was concurrence that we did not need a referendum to make the transition from the Privy Council to the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr Speaker. That was cleared from 2014. There is no legal basis for a referendum and that was cleared. And it is very important Mr Speaker that we repeat that. We repeat it Mr Speaker. However, the need for a referendum was cleared by the Eastern Caribbean Court of Appeal. So Mr Speaker, the Labour Party in its manifesto in the last general election of 2021 on page 28 of the manifesto Mr Speaker and I quote, here is what the manifesto said. It said, we will commence the process for the ascension to the Caribbean Court of Justice as Saint Lucia's final appellant court as the replacement to the Privy Council. That was clearly stated in the manifesto of the Saint Lucia Labour Party in the 2021 general election Mr Speaker. And on the 26th of July 2021, the people voted for the Labour Party We were resounding victory of 14 seats to two Mr Speaker and we were joined by two other members giving us a majority of 15 seats to two. That was clear Mr Speaker in the manifesto Mr Speaker. On the 29th of March 2022 Mr Speaker, the Governor General in his thrown speech announced that the government intended to terminate its relationship with the Privy Council. He said it in clear and certain terms Mr Speaker on the 29th of March in his budget address Mr Speaker. In his thrown speech it was clear and the thrown speech is normally the policy of the government Mr Speaker. In my budget address on the 26th of April 2022, I stated clearly on page 50 and announced that a committee chaired by an ex judge had been tasked to assist in the process of ascension to the Caribbean Court of Justice through public education etc. That was stated clearly in my budget address on the 26th of April 2022 Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker continuing the process. On the 30th of March 2022 a letter was written to the Foreign Secretary requesting agreement to amend the constitution to terminate jurisdiction of the Privy Council. That letter was written to the Foreign Secretary, the British Foreign Secretary Mr Speaker to inform her and to ask permission if you want to say to let us leave the Privy Council. The Foreign Secretary responded Mr Speaker on the 10th of August 2022. And for the purposes of the record Mr Speaker and for certainty and clarity I will read the letter that came from the Foreign and Court of Development Office Mr Speaker. The letter ends. Dear Prime Minister, thank you for your letter of 30th March addressed to the Foreign Secretary requesting agreement to amend specified sections of the constitution of Senusia that will have the effect of terminating the jurisdiction of the judicial committee of the Privy Council. JCPC in relation to appeals from any court having jurisdiction in Senusia and to exceed to the jurisdiction of the Caribbean Court of Justice. I apologize for the delayed response. The Foreign Secretary has asked me to reply. The British government has always taken the view that it is a matter for the government and people of the country concerned in the case of Senusia to decide whether or not to avail themselves of the jurisdiction of the JCPC. I can therefore confirm that this is a matter for you to progress via legal and political channels and you should write to me again for ministerial sign of when the preparatory work has been completed. Your sincerely Vicky Ford, Minister for Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean. This is the letter that came from the Foreign and Court of Development Office Mr Speaker to respond to my letter on the 40th of March informing them that we intended to cease our association with the Privy Council Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, a draft bill was laid before this Honorable House on the 11th of October 2022 for the first reading of that amendment to the constitution Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, that is keeping in the provision of the constitution section 4160 of the constitution that stipulates that there must be a delay of 90 days before the first and second reading of any bill that will amend the constitution of Senusia Mr Speaker. There must be a delay, there must be a time span of 90 days between the first reading and the second and subsequent reading. And if you check Mr Speaker you will see in excess of 90 days between the length of October and today Mr Speaker. So Mr Speaker it is clear that all the constitution requirements have been met for us to amend the constitution Mr Speaker. All the constitution requirements, all what is required by the constitution, no need for a referendum put in the bill for the first reading and 90 days between the first reading and the subsequent second and food readings that has been done and that is clear Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, let us talk a little bit about the structure of the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, it has two distinct jurisdictions. One of them is interpreting and applying the revised treaty of Chagoramas which determines how the CSME works and Senusia and other curriculum states of curriculum have already acceded to the jurisdiction of the court in the CSME. So Senusia is already a part of the Caribbean Court of Justice as it relates to interpretation of the revised treaty of Chagoramas. Senusia is already part of that set of Mr Speaker. The original jurisdiction of the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the Caribbean Court of Justice as a resplacement to the prerequisite is already incorporated into the laws of Senusia but they will allow the lawyers to expand more on that notion Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, you hear the complaints or the accusations that the court will not be independent. Mr Speaker, please listen to how the Caribbean Court of Justice is financed Mr Speaker. It's financed from the proceeds of a trust fund of I think 100 million US dollars to which Senusia has already invested 2.1 million dollars Mr Speaker. That means Mr Speaker that no government can say I am not paying today because you did not rule in my favor Mr Speaker. That 100 million dollars has been put in a trust fund and that trust fund is managed by trustees and they say how to invest the money, how to invest the funds so you can get a return so the court can meet its obligations to pay salaries etc. So no prime minister can say he is withdrawing his contribution for the court because they are not Mr Speaker. So that means there is no political pressure as far as funding of the court is considered Mr Speaker. The other point of contention Mr Speaker that they want to bring is they say that the judges will not be independent and because judges are chosen by politicians Mr Speaker. Again very wrong Mr Speaker and please allow me to tell you how the judges are selected in the court Mr Speaker. The judges are selected by regional judicial and legal services commission that is independent from political control or influence. The president of the court is the chairman and Mr Speaker let me read for you the composition of the regional judicial and legal services commission. On page 4 Mr Speaker of the agreement that set up the it is clear who is in the regional judicial and legal services commission and let me quote Mr Speaker from that agreement. Mr Speaker the regional and judicial services commission is made up of the following persons. The president who shall be chairman of the commission. Two persons nominated jointly by the organization of the Commonwealth Caribbean Bar Association and the organization of eastern Caribbean states the Bar Association. Mr Speaker it is not my habit of calling names in this Honourable House. I was referring from calling names of private citizens in this Honourable House Mr Speaker but when Mr Speaker in a serious matter like that you have people's names are bandied around for political purposes Mr Speaker it is unfair and I'll ask you leave to mention the name Mr Speaker. The name of Thaddeus Antoine has been bandied around even to imply that Thaddeus Antoine is an operative of the solution Labour Party and he'll be able to influence the appointment of judges. Mr Speaker Thaddeus Antoine was not appointed by the Labour Party. Thaddeus Antoine is there because of his position on the organization of eastern Caribbean states Bar Association by his office Mr Speaker. The Labour Party has absolutely no say in appointing anybody in that situation. Mr Speaker again I don't want to mention names but it's very important that I mention names to me because Mr Speaker people just say these things they put on social media they damage people's reputation they call people all kinds of names Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker let me tell you the names of Saint Lucians who have served on this commission Mr Speaker the right Honourable Deceased Servancing Floaster was here appointing an appointment of the Labour Party Mr. Egbert Lannell was here appointing the Labour Party Mr. Everistas Jamari Mr. Tyrone Chong and surprise surprise Mr. Frank Miles I guess he was appointed the Labour Party too. Mr. Speaker these are the people who have solutions have been on the original judicial and services commission Mr. Speaker but they continue the lies and they continue the deformation of people's characters Mr. Speaker the chairman of the judicial service commission of a contracted party selected in rotation in the English alphabetical order for a period of three years you see how much caution precaution is taken Mr Speaker let me tell you let me read for you again one chairman of the judicial services commission of a contracting party selected in rotation in the English alphabetical order for a period of three years the chairman of the public service commission of a contracting party selected in rotation in the reverse English alphabetical order for a period of three years alphabetical order for a period of three years in reverse Dylan was in rotation not in reverse two persons from civil society nominated jointly by the secretary general of the committee and the director general of the OECS for a period of three years following consultations with regional non-governmental associations NGOs Mr. Speaker two distinguished jurists nominated jointly by the dean of the faculty of law of the University of the West Indies the deans of the faculties of law of any other contracting parties and the chairman of the council of legal education Mr. Speaker allow me to break Mr. Speaker to publicly put on record my congratulations to professor Rosemary Antoine who is now the principal of the St. Augustine campus and I know a member inside the head knows her very well to the other members of the judicial and legal commission two persons nominated jointly by the bar or law associations of the contracting party Mr. Speaker that these are the people who choose the judges these are the people Mr. Speaker these are the ones who choose the judges Mr. Speaker and they bring far back to the labor party Mr. Speaker further the judges of the court other than the president shall be appointed or removed by a majority vote of all the members of the commission a majority vote of all the members of the commission Mr. Speaker and that is stipulated in page 3 of the agreement Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker the president is appointed or removed by the qualified majority Mr. Speaker the president shall be appointed or removed by the qualified majority of three quarters of the contracting parties on the recommendation of a commission of inquiry or tribunal three quarters the president shall be appointed or removed by the qualified majority of three quarters of the contracting parties the judges of the court other than the president shall be appointed or removed by a majority vote of all the members of the commission Mr. Speaker this is how judges are chosen and this is how judges are dismissed Mr. Speaker further on page 8 Mr. Speaker listen to how judges can be removed also a judge may be removed from office only by only for inability to perform the functions of his office whether arising from illness or any other cause of misbehaviour and shall not be so removed except in accordance with the provisions of this article Mr. Speaker subject to article 4 paragraph 5 the president shall be removed from office by the heads of government on the recommendation of the commission if the question of removal of the president has been referred to by the heads of government to a tribunal and the tribunal has advised the commission that the president ought to be removed from office for inability to misbehave Mr. Speaker in paragraph 4 a tribunal force that is the system Mr. Speaker if at least three heads of government in the case of the president should be represent to the other heads of government or if the commission decides in the case of any other judge that the question of removal of the president or the judge of office ought to be investigated then the heads of government or the commission shall appoint a tribunal which shall consist of a chairman on not less than two other members selected by the heads of government or the commission as the case may be and they shall be asked the constitution and what the recommendations as maybe considered experiment from among persons who hold or they have helped as a judge or unlimited jurisdictionение civil and acumenal matters in some part of the common whatever the speaker or if in state exercising civil law jurisprudence and advise the heads of government or the commission as the case may be whether or not the present judge ought to be removed from office. These are the conditions Mr. Speaker in an agreement and that agreement was signed Mr. Speaker from it was signed Mr. Speaker by the heads of government less tabood 14 February 2001 or an offer February February 2001 Said Musa February 2001 Keith Mitchell February 21 Clement Roy for the government of Ghana February 21 Percival Jay Patterson for the government of Jamaica 14 February 2001 Denzil Douglas for the government of some kids 14 February 21 Kennedy Anthony for the government of St. Lucia 14 February 2001 and Ralph Gonzalez for the government of St. Vincent 15 February 2003 and the government of the republic of Venice of Suriname 14 February 2001 and Bazio Pandi for the government of Suriname and Tobago 14 February 2001 Mr. Speaker that is the agreement Mr. Speaker that established the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker so what we do today Mr. Speaker what we do today Mr. Speaker is since St. Lucia already is involved in the Caribbean Court of Justice as far as matters that do not relate to criminality etc matters according to the revised treaty of Chagoramas Mr. Speaker we are taking the next logical step Mr. Speaker the next logical step which is making the Caribbean Court of Justice the final appellant court for all matters that relate to St. Lucia Mr. Speaker the CCJ will make justice accessible to the people of St. Lucia for the last 16 years Mr. Speaker there's only have only been 17 cases that have gone to the PIVI council for the last 16 years only 17 cases from St. Lucia has gone to the PIVI council an average of one case pull yeah and you talking about justice being accessible you know why Mr. Speaker because the ordinary seduction cannot afford to go to the PIVI council it's inconvenient Mr. Speaker and it's costly and the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr. Speaker what it has made justice more accessible to the regularly ordinary person in the country including criminals including people who have been charged have been convicted for criminal offenses it makes justice justice accessible to them so they can get a free and fair trial at all levels Mr. Speaker of this at all levels Mr. Speaker of the justice system Mr. Speaker so Mr. Speaker I think today the choice that we are making Mr. Speaker is whether we think that we are capable of making quality independent judicial decisions Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker whether we have the intellectual and moral capability to produce woody judges in a country that has produced two Nobel laureates Mr. Speaker whether we can produce legal luminaries at the level of national courts and the OECS court of appeal but not at the highest level Mr. Speaker I refuse to accept that Mr. Speaker I refuse to accept that that we cannot have a group of men and women seven men and women who after this rigorous procedure cannot deliver justice fairly Mr. Speaker to the bill and talking about the judges Mr. Speaker you must note that the judges do not have to come from the region they can come from anywhere in the world right now there's somebody from the Netherlands who is a member of the Parliament of Justice Mr. Speaker so we can take we can get talent once the talent meets the requirements of the agreement Mr. Speaker and the agreement says in making appointments to the office of the judge regard shall be had to the following criteria high moral character intellectual and analytical ability sound judgment integrity and understanding of people and society understanding of people and society Mr. Speaker so Alan Lewis was a federal Supreme Court judge doing the West Indies Federation so Danny Alexander could have been the chief justice of Nigeria Mr. Speaker was the chief justice of Nigeria so so darling so darling so these are solutions Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker there are other significant members of the judiciary who have become judges Dennis Byron the Vincent Frosa men of impeccable legal ability who have done the job in that case one of them being the president of the Caribbean Court of Justice Mr. Speaker so Mr. Speaker I think it is a shame that as a people we should we should be so afraid of ourselves as a people we should have so much such lack of confidence in our ability as a nation to be skeptical or even to oppose the Caribbean Court of Justice has been the final court of opinion Mr. Speaker when all the limitations when all effort has been taken to ensure that the court is independent that the court is free of political influences and that the judges in the court are men of high judicial knowledge and experience Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker on 14 of February when Prime Minister Kenny Antin of Sen Lusha signed the agreement establishing the CCJ Sen Lusha subsequently ratified this agreement Sen Lusha as a contracting party agreed that decisions of the Scott of appeal will lie to the CCJ CCJ a session to the appellant position of CCJ will ensure that Sen Lusha falls into full compliance with the solemn international obligation completing the groundwork carefully lead by Dr. Antin Sen Lusha has contributed his first share to the CCJ trust fund whose purpose is to provide the resources necessary to finance the capital and operating budget of the courts and the commission for a long time Sen Lusha has therefore paid millions of dollars for an asset which it is not making use of Mr. Speaker the jurisprudence of the CCJ is regarded regionally internationally with the utmost respect decisions of the CCJ are cited with approval in other courts regionally internationally including including judicial committee of the previous council the legal profession in Ghana, Barbados, Belize and Dominica are fully satisfied with the jurisprudence and services offered by the CCJ Mr. Speaker the argument is used sometimes self-serving argument that only four countries are members of the CCJ as far as a final appellant court is bigger but Mr. Speaker the argument is flawed because the constitutions of this country these countries are basically different and Sen Lusha tested it when we sought an opinion from the court as to whether solution needs a referendum to go into the CCJ Mr. Speaker a referendum to go to the CCJ will most likely not yield the results of what it is therefore which is to go into the CCJ because politicians will intervene politicians will interfere politicians will cloud the will cloud the judgment and we may get a situation where it does not truly reflect the pros and cons Mr. Speaker of going into the CCJ Mr. Speaker and there is no legal basis for a referendum Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker it is more expensive very expensive to pursue an appeal to the to the previous council Mr. Speaker than it is to appeal to the court of justice indeed Mr. Speaker pursuing an appeal to the previous council is cost prohibitive that is why there's only been an average of one appeal per year for the last for the last 60 years Mr. Speaker ascension to the CCJ makes it possible for more people to appeal to the highest court Mr. Speaker the CCJ's case filing and case management is second to none long before the pandemic the CCJ model electronic filing and electronic case management well ahead of other courts in the region Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker unlike the OECS state of Guinea Antigone Barbados I've said to before St. Lucia does not need a referendum to exceed to the CCJ and this has been confirmed I said several times before but he's in crime and called what being Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker nor it is ideal that the step be taken by popular popular referendum Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker none of the momentum steps institutional history was referred to a referendum Mr. Speaker there was no referendum to impose slavery on us we never went to a referendum to say whether we should be slaves or to have universal as a suffrage Mr. Speaker or to join the West Indies Federation or to become an associated state or to become independent Mr. Speaker we as a government having met all the requirements having stated to the people that that is our intention having formed a committee of ascension to the CCJ and that committee will continue his work Mr. Speaker we have and having the necessary majority in parliament we have a legal we have a constitutional and we have a moral right to take St. Lucia into the Caribbean court of justice Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker I wish to say Mr. Speaker that going to the CCJ is the right thing to do Mr. Speaker justice cannot be the preview of a few Mr. Speaker all solutions all citizens have a right to justice at the highest level Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker I in closing Mr. Speaker I really wish to say that it's a shame Mr. Speaker that in 2023 we can have people who still believe that colonialism had a conscience who still believe Mr. Speaker that the people of this region cannot determine their own destiny that we cannot find a group nine seven or nine men and women of a high intellectual and judicial value and respect who cannot take decisions after the system from the Magical Court to the High Court to the Supreme Court they cannot take decisions based on what happened down there Mrs. Speaker it's a shame Mrs. Speaker and I'm very happy that the young people of St Lucia are listening are listening to those who do not want to give them a chance who do not want to allow them to reach the highest levels of intellectual of scientific of political levels in this country who believe that they are not capable who believe that we have to only go to our colonial masters who believe that what exists outside in Canada is better what exists in St Lucia who are ashamed to say that they are products of St Lucia but instead they are products of Canada Mrs. Speaker I'm happy that the young people of St Lucia are listening Mrs. Speaker and this giant step and as I said before this giant step started by Kenny Anthony and continuing with us Mrs. Speaker that is how we are we are we are river we flow we are stream Mrs. Speaker it starts one end and ends somewhere else Mrs. Speaker and today this government this Labour Party government is enforcing and showing its confidence after following all the constitutional and consultative requirements we are proud to see that we're going to ask this house to finally remove us from the shackles of colonialism and sang them for the time but we consider them we thank you but our time has come to go we love you but we can't save you any longer thank you Mrs. Speaker