Ancient Rome is the eternal city. Ancient Rome is an endless source of inspiration. And I want you to join me for Ancient Rome live courses in Rome. The Suvian cities have throughout the Mediterranean. It's a unique opportunity to get away from the way most tours are run. Come and have an intimate experience. Come and be part of a small group as we dig deep to experience sites in a way that will just underline the importance of Rome and its empire. It truly is a great opportunity to come study and have knowledge of this incredible city and its legacy with me and my colleagues, people with intimate knowledge of the sites. I myself have lived here for 26 years excavating, teaching, doing TV shows. And my colleagues have superb experiences as well, contributing to the fields of archaeology, architecture, art history, heritage preservation. So this is what you want to do. If you want to have a better understanding of the Roman Empire, the city of Rome, come and join us for Ancient Rome live travel courses in Rome and in Virens, the Suvian cities throughout Italy and throughout the Mediterranean.


him in there like what pokemon are gonna come from the old universe and maybe new pokemon will be introduced you know right right and you know for me maybe they find another like a different type of pikachu and you know pikachu is the face of the one pokemon and then they have you know the reboot where it has a completely new face of the franchise and they kind of are coexistent and you know they each have their own thing yeah yeah i get what you mean kind of like a different aesthetic yeah but you know i mean we were talking about tying to the anime right right i would be interested to see if pokemon go would reflect any of those changes um contrary to popular belief a lot of people still play that game oh right all right right right but i i think they haven't caught up to what they have out now so right now i wouldn't see pokemon going in go going in that direction because it hasn't caught up to what's out now yeah yeah i think they're only up to like gen three yeah yeah something like that yeah i mean you know it kind of makes me wonder if pokemon the game franchise was rebooted would they keep adding old gens of the old like defunct universe i into pokemon go oh yeah yeah um yeah i mean to me i would think you would almost have to just to get i guess i would think until you got all of a pokemon in there i i i guess i don't know i mean it depends on how bit if this reboot if it is a reboot um if that does blow up i guess do you just pick a point and say i guess we're done adding this universe and we're gonna start a different or maybe they make a pokemon go to or or i mean man if they made a pokemon go to and it was it was different and you know had pokemon from the rebooted pokemon franchise right imagine if that captured the mania of the first ones release right right and then you could actually cross battle i'm just throwing it out there i don't know if you you know once they put battles in all right you could cross battle between universes and just i guess i don't know or if you want to keep them separate i mean i think if they're gonna go reboot i think you almost have to just completely make it brand new pokemon try not you know as much as i hate to say it you know you can't really you can touch on like the other pokemon games but i wouldn't include any of the other pokemon as much as that pains me to say because i do love my gen one pokemon part of part of i do love parts of other generations but for me if it's going to be a complete reboot i think you have to put a separation in there yeah and i mean a gen one is near and dear to a lot of people that's for sure i mean even if just for you know you played the first game or you know they featured a lot in the anime and you watched that but it'd be interesting to see the rate if they would just go all a new or mix or if they didn't even add any new pokemon they're like all right this is a reboot and we're just gonna have all of gen one in here no new pokemon right right yeah i wonder how people would react if they were to basically bring back red and blue on the switch and reboot it that way that that would definitely be an interesting way to do it too i mean basically restart the whole entire story again and start from the beginning with with the same pokemon as in we're red and blue and yellow um yeah i mean that would be a definite another way to go but didn't i mean if if it was a i mean i'm i'm thinking like reboot like make a whole new game and reboot it with different story different characters but maybe another path they could take is you know like you were saying bring red and blue back basically a re a link between worlds give it the link between worlds like kick red and blue but with a fun unique twist and whole new content and stuff like that right pokemon universe right so it would appeal to nostalgia but also have the um add all the attention of new gameplay add a little bit to the to the story of the of red and blue yeah but but still keep the original pokemon um so you have the nostalgia of the original pokemon but with a few new things added in i could see them going that direction as well and then in the anime if they brought back like rock and misty yeah i'd be a better believe a lot of a lot of people would return to watching that yeah yeah even if just for an episode or two right relive you know relive the who's that pokemon yeah who's that that was great yeah yeah yeah yeah i'm just i'm i got all these memories flooding back to me now oh for sure of watching um so how much of the new games have you played well it's funny i'm a weird pokemon because i became a fan watching the cartoon i would watch it all the time and it was i loved it and basically it was my biggest dream to go and become a pokemon right gotta catch him oh yeah pokemon yeah yeah it wasn't everybody's right but i started playing pokemon my first pokemon game was pokemon why and i absolutely loved it and i needed to play more uh so i played omega ruby for the 3ds the remake which i thought was good i didn't beat it i mean i thought it was good but i didn't play it out to the end i forget why probably just other games at the time and then i played the original red or no i played yellow i think okay on the on the 3ds virtual console when it came out and i really liked that i watched um i forget the series name but it was uh it was an easy ally series where uh pokemon veteran kyle bossman was having uh brandon jones who had never played pokemon before played brandon plays pokemon yeah brandon plays pokemon there you go oh that's a fairly simple title it was a awesome series yeah seeing brandon experienced that pokemon game for the first time even though i had never played it before uh brought about and me an appreciation for that game and so i said well i have to play it now and so i did and it's just a charming game and then i played uh pokemon moon my favorite pokemon game of all time okay which i thought was amazing i have not played um the new versions of pokemon sun or moon ultra sun ultra yeah ultra sun ultra moon thank you yeah because i just i yeah i know my stuff even though i know nothing about pokemon because i don't right it's still one of those things like i just i because i want to do this other problem i mean for saying this but i just really don't see justifying the cost of buying the game again for just this little bit of content and i know there's probably a whole new story right now well this is what the whole story yeah yeah but i probably should but i'm not going to i'm just gonna wait until the next pokemon game but so i i've played that's about my extent of pokemon games haven't played snap haven't played any of the other pokemon right right just those four games and i've watched a bunch of the so then you went i mean you went to bend against i mean picking up i mean i guess you did say you want to pick up the new ones on the you know new ones created but yeah yeah the new the new pokemon game comes out for switch up right so i we have the fan topic that's just kind of a side topic of this one and i think this is kind of more aimed towards natin and i then it would be for darin because just with you being gone for a little while and and then because we've expressed that you know our views on pokemon have just kind of we're kind of done with the series mm-hmm in a way um and what is it gencha fox yep okay yeah he uh she she i think well whatever gencha fox uh would like to uh was wondering what would have lured us back to pokemon games on the 3ds uh the reason they ask is uh were the exact sort of people that uh game freak seems to be trying to get uh back to the franchise mainly the kanto slash gen one people um they're wondering just kind of what would have brought us back to playing the actual pokemon yeah she notes that like the nostalgia stuff they've been trying to do that obviously hasn't worked because it's not this isn't just like a us thing in general it didn't bring back the so-called gen oneers or whatever yeah in case maybe well yeah but this is you know saying it's more geared towards us as not everybody else is here um there is to me probably nothing they could have done and i'm not saying that because i'm just done with the franchise i'm not i'm not you know i know we've been done for a while outside of maybe a spin-off game or a try at something here there that we played the demo um from sunny moon so like it's not like we're done and we've lost complete interest in pokemon overall right at least i haven't yeah um but i've been done with the games for a while because i've been waiting for that feeling to come back of oh i don't feel so lost anymore and the thing is like i know they did like fire red and all that stuff like they tried to bring back like the red and blue gen one stuff i understand that but um i mean there's 800 plus pokemon yeah right so first off that alone to me is off putting we're approaching a thousand pokemon and to me as someone like when you talk about appealing to a gen one person i'm someone that's about catching them all right that's what pokemon has always been it wasn't about necessarily becoming the best that that was kind of an aside the primary purpose was to to become a pokemon master meant you you have every single pokemon yeah that's what being a pokemon master really meant the gotta be the best came more from the anime than it did from the actual game and even in the anime ash never has never been the best right he's never because you know it's i want to be the very best that like no one ever wants to be yes he wants to be but never really quite gets there but and that's fine that works in the anime it's a nice anime storyline right when is ash ever gonna get there while when they're done with either with ash as the character or they're done with pokemon it'll be the final season ever he'll finally be the best right but whereas gotta catch them all that was pretty much the tag line of pokemon yeah and and the first thing like i don't you know obviously i don't have experience with a lot of a lot of games like the first thing in the first couple of gents that happens is like professor oak is all hey will you help me complete the pokedex now i've been told that's still the point in the new games but here's the thing you cannot get all 800 pokemon in any of the new games yeah you have to have played all the prior gents and transfer all your pokemon over and that to me is dumb it's dumb that is the most off-putting thing about the new games is that no i can't buy a pokemon ultra sun ultra moon and have all the pokemon i can't do it it's impossible i can't catch i mean there's pokemon bank i realize like if you get lucky you can get everything you need but like that is tedious that's not gameplay right that's you trading with other players praying to god the world to give up all the stuff really into that not me yeah there are a lot of people but like i am into playing the damn game right right and get catching pokemon right out in the wild that was the fun of it was going out into the wild and running around and then all of a sudden hey look i don't have this one who this one i used to spend hours farming for that point zero zero one percent chance for a pokemon to pop up and i didn't mind it well how many times did you have to go through safari zone to just get a kagaskan yeah a lot yeah crazy and the thing is like when we're talking about you know what could be back in one console pokemon yeah that's generally give me to try right um and we're getting that of course what they could do like i'll say this um and people who love pokemon don't want to hear this and this is why i'm so excited about the rumor a reboot reboot of scratch 800 pokemon yep i'm not saying go back to 151 i'm not even saying go back to the og 151 you can even start with all brand new pokemon again but a very you know only 100 or whatever it is and just reboot the entire franchise because it is so far over people who played gen one and gen two's head and haven't played sense it the pokemon has advanced so far over our heads yep you know what we don't like like when we think pokemon we're thinking of charizard and pikachu and all stuff then we go into the game we don't know any of these pokemon and that's what happens in a first generate like the first time you play like the very first game in a franchise but when you're so far detached from it but you still remember all this stuff that's not that's relevant and isn't rebooted yet um it just gets wrecked when you go into it like i know like she mentioned like the alohan right like they took a lot of the old pokemon and kind of you know redid some of them to make them alohan versions and it's like that's great that's neat i i think that's a really really cool idea unfortunately i can't pick up that game and catch all the other pokemon i have to go back and play seven generations of pokemon to do that and on top of that some of the pokemon you can't even get anymore because they were event only during those generations yeah so it's like it's almost impossible today to complete the pokedex right if you have not been playing pokemon all this time right that to me is the most off-putting thing about the current games is how they have been designing these games over and it's been it's been this way since gem one right the difference was it when gem one there wasn't anything else right and the only event pokemon they had you could glitch the game fairly easily to get a game yeah um or game gene so like i never liked event pokemon anyways does that be in the only way to get it right but whatever it that's not even like we talked about before some of the complexities and so like what i can even get used to that yeah but the id when someone tells me there's what 807 809 pokemon whatever it is yeah like it just makes my not want to play my brain hurts i used to be able to recite it used to be proud moment when you could recite all 150 pokemon and do it in order of their actual numbers right that used to be a proud thing how many of you out there can recite 800 plus pokemon in a row and what like like if i name oh celibate what number of pokemon is that you know you know i there's so many pokemon you have no idea yeah you know the original 151 order i bet yeah it didn't they actually in some of those games go back and actually add in so technically like some of the newer pokemon are actually down in the 150s or the one i have no idea i wouldn't thought that i thought they did i wouldn't have any so if i'm being honest right because i mean i could be wrong but yeah for me i again i agree i don't know if there's anything that they could have done to brought me back to the 3ds or any of the newer versions of pokemon because of the way they started out there was this sense of accomplishment when you they said gotta catch them all and you finally did there's that sense of accomplishment that you can't get nowadays it's it's one of those things that that wasn't grained into our heads and gen one gotta catch them all i'll tell you the number one thing that put me off we thought about the pokemon numbers i'm not saying that each new generation of pokemon shouldn't add new pokemon of course they should it'll get stale if it just stays 150 but the amount they have added think about this we're seven generations and there's 800 plus pokemon that means on average they've been adding almost 100 new pokemon generation that's way too many yep hey the only way i could think of that is if they don't if they made each game its own individual game and like daren you you'll know this because you played the recent ones how many different types of pokemon are there now oh god too many okay it's just our list in types fire type water type grass type ghost type fairy type dragon type um did i say ghost type yes flying psychic psychic psychic um fighting is legendary type i don't think so i don't think legendary type um i don't know too many now a lot yeah and even daren as someone who likes the new games like it's too many mm-hmm like why is there a dragon type dragons were just part of other types yeah charizard charizard the damn dragon water fire and grass like seriously charizard the dragon electric electric yeah like how can we forget electric like charizard is a dragon but he's probably not a dragon type because he's fired no actually he's not even a dragon type then there's normal don't forget what normal if i remember yeah if i remember right charizard it's not even a dragon type period he's a fairy type what yeah if i remember he's fire yeah he's always a fire he's a fire fairy type what the heck is a fire fairy type it's it's double type it's a double type pokemon no i'm almost positive no no if they rune charizard i'm gonna be pissed reboot or i'm done i don't know he's flying in fire okay i thought he was i could swear he was fairy why why does he have to be multiple types i'm gonna google i could swear he was fairy at one point in time i which made no sense to me whatsoever what type of pokemon is i just google it i'm googling right now too yeah i'm like i gotta see if i don't know i says okay right now it says it says flying in fire list right here we missed a few normal fighting flying poison ground rock bug ghost steel fire water grass electric psychic dragon dark and fairy yeah why yeah what is it about 15 if i be under shot right there's like 18 okay that was close but still way too many remember what what was it grow what was it in gem one it was it was there was fighting psychic fire water grass electric normal normal uh i think it was eight i'm trying to think what the last one was it's actually 19 if you count the question mark question mark question mark type oh the unknown yeah i know i'm missing no good missing no yes um but like i'm mad that i'm kicking myself that i'm forgetting one of the og gen gen one types because i'm pretty sure it was the even number fighting i don't know it makes me mad at some type that's associated with a move that is now just a ghost's move it was in like gen two i think uh type chart gen one okay eric's bringing up the types right now from gem one maybe okay as he looks at it anyways like that's the thing you know when you ask like what could they do the things they tried to do to bring people back bring cancel region back bring this back do this do that do x y z they didn't do any of they didn't solve any of the primary issues that people like us have people that are gen oneers or gen twoers or whatever the case may be because the problem is that the reason we played the game now feels impossible it be if i i'm i'll find i'll catch 800 pokemon but can i do it in ultra sun ultra moon no then i don't want to play that that's that's my kicker if i can't do it in the game i don't if i can't complete the polka deaths in the game and i don't know forget this somebody will tell me you can complete the polka dex in the game forget completely the polka dex if i can't capture every pokemon in the game the alola polka dex in the game without trading i've yes the alola polka dex but what about all the rest of pokemon well no okay it's my point and i some of you will say well then that's like a reboot because you just have just a limited amount of pokemon yeah but then i'll be seeing other players out there with other types of pokemon in there because they imported it from the old games and it just makes it all unfair and unbalanced and i don't like that i'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to bring you a whole point game i'm not saying that but i'm saying if all of the pokemon are available in every game then it's fair for everyone if you can bring your obscure pokemon from the last gen over i should be able to catch that obscure pokemon or breed it or whatever the case may be apparently there is 15 in the original let me see i don't remember dragon being a type drag i'm trying to think dragon might was dritini and drit well they were normal they might have been normal dragon water i what i don't normal fire water electric grass i don't think ice was a type or kuno oh ice was not a type in i don't think oh and your phone yeah i don't think ice was a type in general i don't remember ice being a type anyone that was like ice pokemon was just a water pokemon yeah recommend yeah like 90% yeah i could be confused with the card game yeah right card game didn't have right you know all those ones so that might have thrown me for a loop as well because i was big into the trading card game well like i probably played more overall pokemon games in dariness but and i played a ton of spin-offs yeah but it's like i think i played snap i played stadium i played coliseum i have played well i'm trying to get out of spin-off games i played mystery dungeon i played pokemon red and blue and yellow and silver and gold and i've dabbled in diamond and pearl one of the two i can't remember which one i dabbled and i actually bought it um i have dabbled in fire red leaf green blah blah because like those are supposed to be like read with the gem on it just didn't feel the same because all these new pokemon i'm still seeing like all this crazy stuff and you can't get all the pokemon like like the what gets lost on people is the reason that people play pokemon in the first place catch them all in the game every generation after one you couldn't really do that even the that's probably that's probably why i didn't buy generation three because with gold and silver came out you couldn't catch every pokemon in the game you had to import your pokemon for red and blue i had red and blue i i did import my pokemon but it frustrated me that i had to do that i would and you might say well why would you want to re-catch them if you already have them because especially back then with link cables and everything it was just more convenient for me to catch them again right and there's that excitement level of like it's really cool to think the very first charizard i ever had in red that i could still be playing with that beast today in ultra sun ultra moon and i could have took him with me every single game there is that cool factor yeah definitely should be an option that should exist you should be able to carry your pokemon game to game not saying you shouldn't but also every single game i should have been able to catch a charmander and turn into a charizard right and re-experienced bringing up another charizard right it for me right now i think if i were to do pokemon i would almost make each individual game its own standalone type of series where like you know you have red blue and yellow gen one each new gen is its own standalone thing well that is what they did it's exactly what they did no because i'm not saying i'm not saying bringing in any old pokemon so that's what they that's what they did like with sun and moon and yet we didn't want to play it you can still get pikachu and stuff like that in if you import right you can't get it in the game the game has its own as there and said its own polka dex you can play it in the game it's its own thing it's separate from all the other games it's exactly what you're asking them to do they already did it and yet it didn't bring you back well i think it that was probably more to do with the uh the demo really crappy demo but that was a terrible demo we think it was a terrible demo a lot of people thought it was an awesome yeah that's the thing there might be more to it yeah than what we're saying because what we're saying is why in general we haven't gotten back in but what like you just said like well if they did this is okay well they did do that for you so now why what's the other reason i don't know there's something else about it feels also just from that demo too it feels like there's a lot more gimmicks in the game as well yeah they incorporated that was added they they also added like you know you're running out taking pictures and it's like yeah that's pokemon snap i know added the game right it why taking pictures in sun and moon why it pokemon snap give me a pokemon snap it's not better than pokemon snap that's for sure give me a pokemon snap if you're gonna incorporate taking pictures of pokemon give me pokemon snap well i don't think there's anything wrong with having the ability to take pictures i just it just seems extra gimmicky let's give it it's giving veteran players more to hey or we're not considered veteran players anymore so to us it's just extra fluff that doesn't be needed to people who play every single generation putting hundreds of hours and they're like hey this is cool something else to do besides what i literally do every single game mm-hmm yeah so as i say to us i think at least for i'll just speak for me i can't speak for you when i try out games since the first couple of gens i am overwhelmed very quickly because what what it gets lost on people today like as much as like i don't know daring considers themselves a pro but like how awesome pokemon yeah like how i like how awesome people think they are po even if they don't think they're like so awesome they can beat other players like they feel like this game i know this game in and out i'm a pro at this game that's how we felt with red blue green whatever yeah yellow yellow and then uh and then when we got uh even silver and gold like even a little bit of that we felt like yeah we are pokemon masters even if we're not the greatest in the world right right even if we're not the greatest the trading card game whatever we had that feeling that we are masters and now when i pick up a pokemon game because it's been so long it's understandable why i don't feel like a master i pick it up because like when you picked up red and red blue you didn't feel like a matter of differences i played red and blue so now when i pick up pokemon i expect a lot of familiarity i expect a lot of um easing me into it in the same kind of way teaching me you know in the same kind of way that i'm used to like i expect to want to skip the how to catch a pokemon part but then now they added also oh there's 17 different balls and there's a now we got breeding and we got and i know breeding's been around i think since gen two but i didn't really do it in gen two right as i said gen two is is the is the game that made me stop liking pokemon um so i'll tell you i'll tell you why i don't feel like a pro it's because i have a friend who plays pokemon and you know i i guess i'm fairly good at pokemon but he trades every day he's un-messageable he has hacked pokemon he he grinds every day he spends thousands of hours in sun and moon and plays all the other games and levels the pokemon up to send them to sun and moon and he knows how to get all these rare pokemon you got to go to the specific area and then use an item on this pokemon and all this and that and he knows all the types and advantages and disadvantages and all the the evies and how to use berries and how to use this and that and maximize every chance he has of winning you know as goes to the battle tree constantly it's you know stuff like that just a super fan super pro that i knew i'll never be because i'm not about to sink that much time into it okay but get a remember and this is what i said that's what we were back then right yes we didn't necessarily beat a whole bunch of other but we felt like we knew everything even if we really did it felt like we did we might not have known necessarily all the best ev combos right and the best pokemon the court certain moves with but we that's because it was all new we were experiment nobody right nobody right it was still new and being figured out but now everybody else does know so we go into a game which it i have to admit this is a big part of it we haven't talked about this community back then and it's still true today pokemon is very much a community when i talk about pokemon like if people even get this far in the podcast just look in the comments how many people are going to be bitching at me from the pokemon yeah i don't feel welcome yeah i feel like they don't want me yeah like i want to get in a pokemon switch they want to undo me they don't want me there's people that tell me i shouldn't even talk about pokemon because i'm a gen one or whatever the case may be and i'm just like when did pokemon become such this exclusive club that anyone else that has a different opinion than right that's not what pokemon was back then there are people that play pokemon for different reasons there are people that wanted to be pros and go to the pokemon tournament that wasn't me right but they did it and they had fun and they played it for a different reason and we didn't hate each other right no for sure um and i don't hate these people by the way right it's just annoying right when i'm being told as someone that has openly admitted i am trying to get back into pokemon you're telling me don't bother and you're trying to kick me out before i even get started that oh it's frustrating and i think part of me is this whole i mean it this whole 3d world is is interesting but i love the the the top down to maybe two and a half d you know that's what the last h n's event go play that's what i'm sorry up until what x and y that's what pokemon was what right so like you could have been playing all the time i could have been yeah no i know um i think it's there's there's bits and it's it's there's bits and pieces of each individual it's not one individual thing it's bits and pieces of sure of other like this culmination of things that yeah it's it's kind of slowly loses me yeah i mean after each gen this is a thing like when someone like i i always point out gen to was when my my my you know my love of the series started the wane and that's when i realized i wasn't gonna buy every single pokemon someone's cuz you're growing up you're getting another stuff i started getting big in this held up blah blah blah but that doesn't mean that i had to stop with pokemon uh because i was still doing the trading card game for a while up and i was big into the trading card game until even with the new pokemon until wizards of the coast stopped making the cards and another company took it over because that new company basically banished all the old cards which made me as a trading card player feel like i just wasted years of my oh yeah yeah so like it really devastated me because i if i was serious about one thing it was pokemon trading card oh yeah i go to tournaments i wanted to go championship oh like i i was big into it like people are big into trying to become pokemon masters even still to this day with a trading card game i guess yeah but when they banned all the old cards i'm like this is just pissing me off so that is what it is that's what kind of got me out was that was that was a massive change right that hasn't necessarily happened before my big game freak this whole time but it felt like that i'm not saying a game series can't evolve right zelda as an example all these years almost every single zelda game feels different um you could argue some of them feel like a reboot right but when you play that game everything that you're meant to that you're able to do or meant to do can be done within the game so like when you play breath of the wild it doesn't matter if you didn't play skyward sword it's completely irrelevant to your experience in breath of the wild right it doesn't mean that opinions can't be skewed right but each game stands completely 100% on its own pokemon is one of those franchises especially when you're someone like us that have that nostalgia feel that when you get into a game you have these pre-existing expectations from your childhood and you just feel like you're so on the outside getting in each game even though we just said all sun and moon kind of sort of stands on its own with the alohan stuff it's still one of those things like yeah but when you first enter sun and moon i remember the demo anyways first thing it said is hey you just got here to this island that means there's more yeah you're still part of that world you're you aren't actually from that island you're from a different you're from kanto or whatever the game yeah yeah and it's like in zelda it never feels that way you every game you wake up well yeah and you're from kakiri forest even though you finally your mother dropped you up you're from somewhere in hypo probably castle town uh you are from you know like everything is inclusive in the game you're not a visitor sun and moon to me from the demo felt like i am a visitor to this land right but there's more right and the game doesn't let me do that more right limited to just this land right and some of that's because of the open world games that have existed out there that do let you do that more like i'm a visitor here maybe that's where i start but i can eventually go and that's kind of like what gen two did where you could go back and play the first region yeah and i feel as before like i want all the regions in one game that would be one way that would get me excited is i can't catch all you know pokemon because all the regions exist in the exist in one game massive and they talk about massive game as to the i'm sorry there's there is no more games that are just as oh yeah no no no no i'm just saying i'm i'm just thinking oh that'd be a massive game like it can be done i'm not saying it's not difficult i don't know right no like a lot a lot of a lot of pokemon fans will tell me that uh you can't get that because it'd be too too big too difficult to this too that all a lot and i'm just like like that's because you're so ingrained in my pokemon currently right right that you this is what people didn't think open world games like breath of the wild were even possible 30 years ago right so like you're so ingrained in what it's always been that you can't see a world that's different than that and i feel like that's what needs to happen with pokemon is it needs a radical shift that just shakes up right so it makes it so everyone feels new again right to what is happening breath of the wild just did that was all right it just tore down everything zelda has been for 25 years and so we're done with that this is what it is now and it feels like if you want to get me truly back i'm gonna try to get back without it right if it doesn't do that but for reboot whatever whatever you want to call like breath of the wilds on a reboot right it needs to just rip everything down and make every pokemon player feel new again it gets rid of that cocky feeling that that the current pokemon fans have and it's gonna set some people they got torn down breath of the wild upset people too people who love dungeons hate breath of the wild but you know what it's the most critically and potentially highest selling zelda game ever created tearing down the walls think about i i use this always as an analogy think about pokemon go yep it kind of sort of did that it took what we every pokemon trainer has always ever dreamed of catching pokemon in real life right as much as possible obviously the next step is full vr right yeah it's it took that and it did it smartly by saying look we're sticking with gem one right away and more people downloaded installed and played pokemon go than any pokemon game in the history of pokemon it's not even close hundreds of millions of players game freak dreams of having a game come out that can do that i think something breath of the wild that's something that shakes the foundation of pokemon it makes everyone anew again i'm not quite sure how you do it i don't know that's like i didn't know how they could do it was zelda either right and they did i yeah i don't have the answers to it right but if they can breath of the wild this pokemon game yep then not only will get me back in it's going to get a ton of pokemon players just like pokemon go did to come back like even as pokemon goes popularity is weighing there are still more people playing pokemon go today than playing ultra sun ultra moon by a significant margin tens of millions of players they need to do something like pokemon go not say make remake pokemon go that already exists but shaking the foundation that's a pokemon go it shook our expectations for what a pokemon game is they need to do it again on switch and then this time it needs to be done by the pokemon team it can't be an outsider right we need game freak to step up and be like look we're tired of making the same stuff every time and i realized you guys talk about all the evolution and the story changes and and uh you know how they kept a lot of things the same a chance of things and and added types and added uh you know different types of reading and ivy's and all the stuff they've added that's great they have tried to do things to expand it felt like all they've done is expand upon what pokemon was back in red and blue it would be akin to same going from the legend of zelda skipping over zelda 2 then two links awakening and then a link to the past and then skipping over all the 3d games and then going to um you know the minish cap and oracle seasons oracle of ages and i think between worlds like skipping all the evolution that has happened in zelda and just sticking with that same formulaic type of type of experience that admittedly they have added a ton of stuff to that top down 2d style of games even it's you know spirit tracks and and uh you know phantom hourglass add into that touch controls 2.5d but it's still that top down style game that adds all this new things it adds tons of new stuff yet none of those games are among the best selling zelda games because the ones that are are the ones that really shook everything up or at least as all the games i enjoy the most ocarina of time felt like it shook everything up because it admittedly ocarina of time is a link to the past and 3d but it felt like it shook everything up because of the perspective um maybe that's all it needs maybe that's all pokemon needs to get me is make it like i'm almost the first person or over the shoulder full 3d world i don't know maybe that's all it needs to do i can't tell you i don't know make a game where you're the pokemon and you try to run away from your trainers well till it happens i don't i don't know what it needs to be right time to my i like major's mask significantly more think about how different major's mask is than anything that's ever happened in zelda before they were different breath of the wild isn't anything that's happened before that's what and that's how you get people to come back you might not satisfy everyone and you're going to burn the zelda team knew when they released breath of the wild people that love dungeons and love the skyward sword dungeon that love the twilight princess dungeons love the dungeon focus of the games we're not going to be happy but they didn't care they wanted to bring back all the people that had left zelda over the years and they did that successfully and they created new fans on top of that breath of the wild became such a sensation that my daughter was talking about it because kids at her school were playing it and she asked me that isn't that that's all the game you play all the time breath of the wild yeah like everyone's talking about it at school like apparently it's one of the best games ever made i'm like yeah this is elementary school it's getting around yeah when i'm at that elementary school the only time i ever hear about pokemon is if they're playing pokemon go on their phone i'm not saying that some of them don't play pokemon it just doesn't feel like it had that sensation feel because it's just i don't want to say it's stagnated but it kind of sort of has the series hasn't necessarily grown or dipped in sales it kind of just sits between that 14 that 12 14 20 million it kind of just sits and i know that's a wide range zelda wishes it had that kind of range but it's just that's that's just my personal feeling if they can shake the foundation like pokemon go did i'm not saying they're going to hit the success pokemon go huge right but i think they could create the best selling pokemon game of all time and they're going to do that because everyone who's ever played a pokemon game but stop playing it at one point is going to hear about it and feel like we got to try this that's what breath of the wild did the zelda fans they heard even if they ended up hating it they still bought it and tried it yeah because they heard so much great things about guys you know like how you even play zelda for dude i breath a lot changed to everything yeah and it's amazing yeah and it's perfect 10 we need to start hearing that pokemon's a perfect 10 again yeah when's the last time you remember a pokemon game getting straight perfect 10s across the board there's never been a pokemon game rated as high as okrium time in zelda it's never happened there's never been a pokemon game that's been rated that good how how did the originals rate i don't remember yeah honestly i'll put it on my head i couldn't tell you right but they're not the top 10 i know that of all time so it's kind of like it's kind of like we need that kind of hype for pokemon and i think pokemon pokemon always feels like a franchise that should be up there with the zelda's getting those high reviews oh for sure but something is holding it back from that and i feel like that's something maybe the same reason that i'm not getting back into it yeah so if they do that i'm again you guys maybe know what that should be i have no idea i didn't know what it should have been with zelda and they did it and i love it and i had no i didn't think anything in my lifetime would top secret amana ever yeah it held firm for over 20 years despite my love of zelda despite my love of mario then breath of the wild came out and my expectations for zelda are now blown so out of proportion that there's no way the next the next zelda game can even even probably compare at least that's what i'm thinking now you say that now that's what i think you know i probably thought that with or career time back in the day and then majority of this has happened so right no no for sure that's my feeling my rant yep yep it's all i got you got anything else to add nope we used to i think we summed it up i think darin fell asleep yeah i think so too no darin's still here he's uh looking up original red and blue review scores oh nice yeah let me know um you looking up on medicarek or something i don't even know medicarek has them they probably medicarek has them for fire red they don't have them for pokemon red though um i'm gonna go to game i'm gonna go to i'm gonna go to game rankings so i kind of fire red has an 8.7 user score that's not what i'm looking for 81 81 i'm going to glance at game rankings.com too because they they usually look like a pokemon in general and see like the top rated pokemon game of all time is the game boy advanced pokemon joto finish not even a not even a mainline game is so what is the it's all you ever mind i'm not gonna count it never mind it's like a one review so that doesn't count pokemon silver okay pokemon red was 87 on game ranking okay so pokemon silver rounds up to 88 pokemon silver got 91.35 with 23 reviews okay remember this was way back when there was a pretty great uh pokemon puzzle challenge is next at 90 how many how many reviews 10 reviews okay pokemon gold version which again silver 89.56 uh pokemon blue at 88 yep pokemon soul silver remake of silver 88 funny out it's actually red is lower than the og silver with more it's because more reviews right right um pokemon sun believe it or not interesting is the best rate of pokemon game in a hell of a long time 52 reviews hmm where's your edit we know red i see blue version where's oh red version is 87.86 okay heart gold like like they're all rated basically you're looking at mid to high 80s yeah um with one mainline that got over got over 90 but then like you look at that right and then you type and i know we're talking about critical rating here but it's it does make a difference because it lets you know if it just consistently stays there it means they're consistently making high quality games but they're not good in that extra step yeah um zelda games best rated ocarina of time 97.54 okay 1998 oh 2017 breath of the wild 97.4 uh that was the wii u version by the way it rings slightly oh that's only a five reviews that's why they say most of the reviews were probably for the switch version there's 63 yeah uh twilight princess 2006 16 reviews 95 and that's the gamecube version the wii version is right behind that with 84 reviews at 94.58 win waker even is up in the 94s and like you'll see going down like zelda games are consistent in the 90s but then you do have some that are down in the mid 80s like there is some variance in a couple of 70s okay and there even when you look at the top of them top of them they kind of spread out over the years yeah this game hit a 95 but then the next couple probably only hitting like a 90 or an 80 it sounds like they took chances and did different things yeah yeah the win waker was a huge risk uh going back to why the princess probably was less of a risk but but it felt amazing coming off of the win waker in the west um you know breath of the wild did what breath of the wild did ocarina time do what it did until the past day what it did um all of these games um felt revolutionary i don't know that i have dabbled in a pokemon game because i said i've tried pokemon games over the years and felt like this is something i and special like when you get in breath of the wild the first time you walk out of that cave you know this is not your average zelda game yeah yeah this is different you get this feeling in the win waker too because of the sea it's never been in a zelda game before you you get to even the title screen you're like what is happening not just the art style like water everywhere you wake up again up in a watch tower with your sister you have a sibling now yeah like you kind of get that feeling in the win waker okay like they found a way to just blow your mind um over and over again with zelda felt this way in ocarina of time um like yeah i felt all amazing when you're in the thing but then when you get out in the hyrule field for the first time i think anyone who's played ocarina of time will always remember that first time they stepped in the hyrule field it doesn't matter that it's empty as hell and really boring and bland you don't realize that at the time you step out and you're like what especially back in the nineties like what is this world and over you've never seen i've never seen nope nope nope well you've never seen anything like this in a zelda game or even maybe i'm gaming at all back in the nineties like you just step on your like this is massive yeah games get bigger than this that's what you're thinking um it's actually kind of small but back then it was like a big deal oh yeah for sure so uh and there's been so many of these moments and when every time i boot up a pokemon game and you're greeted with some of the same stuff you know like oh what's your name or oh what's your gender what yeah well oh pick one of the three starting pokemon like it's just like this is the same every time and i know there's all these differences and some of them can be off-putting you're gonna love hate love hate but it's kind of like even what even in like uh the this you know alone area where they got rid of the gems and did something different uh it's still one of those things we're like i understand that changes things up but it still felt kind of sort of like pokemon's always been there was a familiarity that was too familiar whereas breast of the wild you booted up okay this is familiar wake up link okay this link you're waking up again like you've done in like every Zelda game ever and well from the moment like that okay Zelda's all about wait there's voice acting let's throw me off yeah why am i in a space age sci-fi chamber that's throwing me up and then you go out there like okay this is different look at this giant world then you pick up a stick and you hit a bokeh blend you're like oh this feels so satisfying probably broke my stick probably even dying all right but it just felt satisfying yeah and there's these little in all of a sudden you see the temple of time and you're like i have not seen this shit since okay no time yeah what is happening why is it in ruins yeah you see a ruin la mount ranch later you see these like it makes it feel like a Zelda game while totally breaking all the conventions and i feel like that's what has them the pokemon where they can still make it feel like this is very much a pokemon game this is just not pokemon as you've ever seen it before and i don't feel like they've ever done that at least to me and granted i know that it's easy for me to say that because i played all the zelda games but i played them because it felt like that mm-hmm now with every game admittedly mm-hmm but with a lot of them mm-hmm you know and even the ones i talked about before were like the top down games didn't necessarily feel that way i was spreading out those top down games over 20 plus years right we're talking about ocarina of time to a very different major as mass to the wind waker back to an ocarina time style game and then also out the skyward sword with motion controls and then all of a sudden breath of the wild like wildly different games every time yeah yeah and it keeps you engaged because you never know what's gonna happen and pokemon is like i know it's gonna happen this next pokemon game you're gonna talk to some sort of professor at the beginning they're gonna tell you how they need help completing the poke at x yep you're gonna need to pick one of three starting pokemon because for some reason we have to be limited three every single time right probably a basic type of water fire in grass yep um and you're going to have to choose a name choose your gender uh choose a pair of clothing yeah you'll be able to change clothing later maybe live with a dressier pokemon i'll put makeup on and do all these little little things on the side that are all optional and everything but you know the goal then is to complete the poke at x beat the trainers beat the beat the gym leaders and either become the pokemon champion beat nearly four again or whatever or uh completing the poke at x and then you can't really in some games you can't really complete the poke at x without the other games or whatever we talked about that already but it's kind of like this repeat of just beating into your head like this is what pokemon is what's always going to be and we're going to throw all these things on top of it to make it feel different it feels like going from what legend is out to a link to the past and then a link to the past to as i said you're just kind of doing the same thing and adding new elements in whereas i would rather just see a completely blown up pokemon has never had a token of time moment ever it's never happened pokemon today i would argue based on a little bit i played i know but is large like if my daughter my daughter's playing pokemon right now she's loving it i'm watching her play and her experience and as i'm watching her do it is largely the same as mine was when i was a kid and that's very nostalgic that's very amazing i love that she's getting into pokemon she loves it so much but she's loving it for a lot of the same reasons i did and it's like that just tells me that hasn't really ever changed it's never grown up with the audience it's never tried to be different it and it's okay to have games and own what they are call of duty very much owns what it is but it's a yearly franchise i don't want pokemon being treated like that to me pokemon is such an important ip that we shouldn't be like oh we just got sun and moon oh we're getting ultra sun ultra moon next year why right scrap that come back with pokemon switch take some more time between games and do something different every time and i know there's a scare i mean that they do it just like call of duty does it even though they do have like different errors and stuff like the other going to like i was forward to coming up world war two but they they do it because the sales numbers are consistently high so they can get away with doing it but if they ever want to hit that peak like sales numbers were consistently high for zelda then they did ocarina of time and it got even higher if they could just ocarina of time or breath of the wild is bad boy they might see sales numbers they've never seen before we're talking 30 40 plus million you know especially if it's that revolutionary where it becomes it needs to become my breath of the wild where people everyone who owns a switch needs to buy this game yeah like everyone who owns a 3ds didn't buy and there's 70 million 3ds's yeah sorry was there 70 million copies sold yeah it was there even 35 million copies sold of sun and moon no yeah so it needs to be that game that feels like you are buying it is worth buying a switch and this game so and that again pokemon has always been a system seller but this needs to hit a new level yeah anyways that's what they need to do yeah i gotta say thanks for tuning in this is the nintendo prime podcast another long one but you know what it feels fitting to have a long one on darin's return yeah because we have been waiting for you for five years okay five weeks uh i'll be back i'll be back next week he'll be back he'll be back next week and hopefully every single week until his grandparents decide to go on another vacay um and then take everything with and say bye darin yep um but it's all good maybe someday we'll get you in person and that'll that'll be a fun cast yeah person especially we can get him to get 5j out here oh yeah that would be fantastic yeah we got it's gotta happen someday someday we're all just gonna go to e3 there you and it's gonna be amazing it'd be awesome even if we're all going for for different outlets and different who cares yeah we know we're meeting up making this podcast happen yeah um so yeah go ahead and go follow darin at realdern on twitter don't know how often he's been updated it because i don't really pay much attention i should probably hit that bell icon on your why hold on why is twitter and youtube both using bell icons i don't know hit that bell icon to get notifications like why don't i just get notifications and i guess i do follow up yeah well we have been tweeting a lot of nintendo stuff especially after today so yeah it's basically all i tweet about music sometimes and for the first time ever eric first time yeah first time ever on a podcast yeah eric more you can go follow him on twitter yeah yeah yeah which by the way editor that means you actually have to add his twitter handle oh boy yeah what what does that twitter handle get hit me up emo 8790 so that's e moh 8790 that's right go follow him as he's told before if he does tweet or retweets it's sports stuff primarily he's not going to be too too much in town i mean every now that he might retweet some from center pride but yeah but uh yeah that's cool and obviously i have another twitter handle at any chance otherwise the main one you want to follow that i am most active on that i'm always talking nintendo at ninty prime uh stay tuned folks because there's going to be some great stuff i can let you know right now that next week we do have a special guest on uh not that daren's not special here but you're like a co-host at this point yeah at least you should be feels like we're having a saccharion next week saccharion no by the way i know we were talking about earlier we didn't know what project he was working on and i think we might have even said that it sounds like he's not even working on this one but he tweeted out that yes he's been toiling away on this game forever on this upcoming smash switch game i just saw that well the hold on is this in reference to it being a new game or is this in reference to he's been doing this since back before it came out on wii u in 3ds so he's just been a non-stop no he's well he's specifically talking about the game smash game showed off in the um well you know it'll bring it up well i know he's specifically talking about the game in the direct well yeah but he's talking about how he can't say its name he says while we haven't gotten to the point where we can announce the game's title i've been working on the title in silence day after day please look forward to new information and when the title goes on sale and that was in a retweet of the smash bros account and that translation is by source gaming at all source gaming color me surprised i'm i honestly didn't think he was gonna do anything with smash i thought he was done wow wow okay then folks yeah right that just changes everything yeah i take everything this is a higher conversation we had to re record the podcast two and a half hours everything we said about the direct sorry yeah redeem yeah new smash game get high maybe okay who is the actual uh special guest next week oh okay so we're having player essence on next week oh sweet yeah like there newsy is for those who don't know he he's an amazing youtuber he does a lot of similar stuff that we do he reports on uh nintendo stuff gaming stuff in general um he's got his uh player essence news thing and he does like a live show five nights a week um where he has a discussion with his fans talking about the news and everything uh and i think every now and then he does a game stream does a lot of indie games uh from what i can tell uh i don't catch a lot of his streams because i'm busy doing my own content every night uh but i do watch a lot of his videos he's a great guy i actually during one of his live streams uh i was actually live streaming at the same time um and we were getting some really generous uh donations and i felt so inclined to show some love to him and through some donations his way um just because he works really really hard he's a father as well trying to make his dream a reality um and i get so much support i you know i was sitting watching stream but dude nobody's giving this guy any money man i got i gotta start the money train so i started the money train um and that definitely got his attention um and because him and i we we've known it we we've gone back for twitter a few times but haven't really had talking and now like we've been chatting all the time and he's he's he's psyched to come on our podcast he is not someone you guys should expect to see in our pockets often because again i just said every night he's doing something yeah for his own stuff but um he is making time uh to come on at least once uh because he really wants to talk some good stuff with us we're gonna at least we have a full four person cast whoa for the first time in a long time and believe me we are going to i know i'm just donald trumping that up right there believe me uh we're going to we are going to have some epic topics to bring up that are specially catered to player essence if you know any of his content you know the things he loves we're gonna be talking about it we're gonna make it happen it's going to be probably one of the most interesting conversations we have had in 2018 even more interesting than this nintendo direct holy cow so get ready get pumped get excited we'll see you next week this is the nintendo prime podcast yeah buddy i knew it was going to be a long one it's nintendo direct day man oh yeah totally and i just i was debating if we should have the fork on the top and i'm like you know what