Ladies and gentlemen, it is 12 noon and it's time for the beginning of the Brown Bag Concert in the Park series. Open your ears, get ready to even move about for Pizquatrone and the Freelancers. It's a YouTube sensation. Anytime you want, 3 in the morning, share with your friends in Sweden. And we'll all dance together. So much to so many people in different worlds. Is that right? We've got the Philly Contingent over here. We're going to make a contingent in this band, Robertson, on Sly Guitar of Montpelier, Vermont. Yeah, what is the Quaker made, which is pretty much the start of the Midwest? A couple things I missed. I moved here about 20 years ago. And one of them is a real deal cheesesteak. Okay, it just doesn't happen here. There's a couple of farm misses. So we wrote this one. Chris and I did. We missed a couple things. We missed a real deal cheesesteak. We miss, every once in a while, a treat of tasty cakes. I heard some people, yeah? Okay. So, we came up with this number. It's called Cheesesteaks and Tasty Cakes. Watch it now! And that's the Philly Contingent sensation. That's Quattrone. We are the Freelancers. And before we get to the tabbing us here, for Montpelier Alive for having us. The Price Church for having this whole thing every year. Thursdays and sometimes Thursday evenings. But anyway, it's really, the whole thing is really cool. And I want to thank every one of you for coming out here tonight, or today to enjoy the music. Now we're sharing Park Stage Saturday night at 6.45. You can see me afterwards. Sign up on a mailing list if you'd like to. Do all that official stuff. Send out a monthly newsletter to let you know where we're playing out of the didgeridoo world. So, here. I'm super, super, thank you for bringing this wacky musical vision to the Stratasphere. Okay, my friends. With this one, and I want you to sing along in different parts because you know, it's an international sensation, according. And with the YouTube, it's a really important thing. So, we don't make a whole lot of money. So, the cool thing about the Internet and YouTube is it's really a TV station to the world.  My name is Pete Squattrone. You'll get there, check out the videos. If you take what you're seeing, what you're feeling, share it with your friends because we get our music out there to the world. It comes from Australia. That's where the ditch comes from. There's a debate on how old it is. It's several times. Thank you so much again for coming out today.


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's casebreaks.com with a three box prism basketball mixer 2019 2020 prism basketball mixer featuring fast break Retail box and a blaster box. This is random team break number nine big. Thanks all of these folks right here for getting into the action There are the teams right here. Let's roll it. Let's randomize each list five and a five ten the hard way one two and Tenth and final time after ten. We've got Matthew down to Matthew Matthew Pfeiffer down to Matthew Shearer ten the hard way Hard ten and a tenth and final time after ten. We've got the Orlando magic down to the Memphis Grizzlies nice All right, so Matthew P with the magic Chris Bay with the Mavs Matthew Kelly with the jazz Matthew Shearer with the net all different Matthews Tim with the nuggets Chris with the Raptors Matthew Kelly with the Kings wit with the Celtics Matthew P with the Bulls Adam Kelly with the Pells Matthew P with the Timberwolves Chris with the Thunder Keele Kessler with the Hornets Zach Paul with the Spurs and the Hawks Matthew P with the Rockets Robert with my Lakers Zach with the Sixers Matthew P. Pistons Adam with the Pacers Justin with the Warriors Zach with the Heat and the Suns Frank with the Bucks Fuad with the Knicks Mike Tower with the Cavs Chad with the Wiz the Zach with the Clippers Oliver with the Trio Blazers and Matthew S with the Memphis Grizzlies Let's alphabetize by team And we're gonna hit the pause button really quick and when we come back when we see if there's any trades They'll have the break stick around All right, welcome back folks a little bit of trade chatter, but in the end no deals were done here So thanks everyone for getting in really appreciate it. There's everyone right there. All right And I guess let's start with the the 24-pack retail box So we got the retail the fast break and the blaster Good luck everybody. I'm watching the 2016 NLDS game 5 a timeless Dodgers classic On the Dodgers Network, I guess if you're not in LA you probably won't be able to see this right there Jaydog, you're watching the same thing nice. Jaydog is in the area. I Direct TV we have direct TV here at the shop directly. We finally got the Dodgers Network. So I Already have it at home. I have spectrum slash Time Warner at home But I've never been able to watch stuff at work and now I can and that is a delight In the Lakers Network already existed on direct TV for a while almost since the beginning Can't believe it took this long for the baseball network and the Dodgers Network to get on direct TV. There is a battle Real battle. All right Retail edition Good luck So vet commons like this Harry Jaws will obviously ship because it's a silver There's hot you more rookie cards will obviously ship. So will these inserts Derek white will of course ship these green ones aren't numbered. So that's why I'm sliding past those Al Horford Deandre Hunter Miles Bridges Ty Jerome silver Spencer Din Whitty Ben Simmons wave Tyler hero green Paul George silver for the Clippers Bill Russell Those red waves aren't numbered either and a silver Romeo Langford nice. I guess any silver rookie And never know Romeo Langford could end up being Pretty good. And then everyone's gonna wonder. Hey who has Romeo Langford silvers and the Boston Celtics wit says I have one Three thousand points in that RJ Barrett It's not up on me there Well, winner take all on the points RJ Barrett red wave that'll be for the Knicks who odd with that one A Lot of points. All right, let's go with the 18 pack fast break box Green box. All right. Good luck Silver Deandre Jordan these Kobe's will ship by the way to the Lakers that'll be for Robert Throne Kobe's LeBron's Luke second-year Luka dodges yonuses Those are the those are the commons that will ship. We got We got some fast break Aaron Baines Suns addition even though he's in a Celtic skier. This is for the Suns and that will go to Zach Paul Alfonzo McKinney and a Zion Williamson. There we go. Pelicans Adam Kelly with the Pells even this base Zion will probably And probably come close to Paying for a spot. Maybe does pay for a spot Prices are crazy on those Sean Kemp will go to okc and we've got a Darius Garland disco warmer warmer warmer disco Ryan's asking anything with spots left that you might break tonight if it fills everything everything on jaskiescasebreaks.com except for the pre-orders and whatever Then Chronicles football we can't do until Monday. There's a couple of things but Everything else we can Zion and Jop back to back So that's a Zion far out disco refractor Adam Kelly and the Pelicans and the Jaumarant goes to Matthew Shearer and the Gris is Aaron Holiday to 175 Michael Bridges for the Suns to 75 The blaster box coming up top loaders here Yeah, I don't know if you anyone you've heard that story. I'm watching a little baseball game here I heard that story in the background where Frank Robinson Was hired as a player manager. I think his first game they said Brought himself in as a pinch hitter and hit a home run now Do you think In this modern era Will there ever be a player manager because they even happen in like a major In the major leagues or in the NFL. I'm not talking like a third division soccer team in England You know, I'm talking like in a major professional sport I don't think it didn't happen that much in the first place I almost think it'll just never happen in this day and age and there's Jackson Hayes for Adam and the Pelicans That relic will go to Adam once again nice Jackson Hayes It's got some upside. There's Draymond green green parallel Traymond water shack Grant Williams and Marvin Bagley the third All right, nothing too earth shattering there But we do have 3,000 points that someone in this break is gonna get all right Zach down to Chad And everybody in between has a shot at the 3,000 points. That's a lot after eight time a name on top after eight I Guess each row kind of was a player coach for a little bit that might be the closest we'll see Three and then five more times three and eighth and final time after eight name on top boom Mike tower towering over everybody else and 3,000 points Going his way. There you go Mike. Thanks for watching everybody Joe for Jasper's case breaks calm I'll see you next time for the next break. Bye. Bye


I moved to this house about a week ago, a nice little cottage on the border of North and South Carolina, overlooking the Piedmont at the edge of the Blue Ridge mountain range. During the day, everything seems normal.  I get paid, the sun shines outside every morning. I wake up and I make my coffee, and I sit outside on the balcony. Everything remains calm and quiet through the day, barring the times I host a dance party of one while waiting for my old microwave to kick into gear. Even my dog seems more subdued. Not lethargic per se, but he seems to have less energy, less gusto for life. Puck doesn't really bark anymore. Not at squirrels, not at other dogs. He doesn't even bark in excitement when I come home from the store, which is, for lack of a better term, really weird. Some of my new neighbors complimented me on how well trained he is. Oh, isn't it nice to have a quiet dog? He doesn't even jump on you? I could never get my dog to behave as well as yours. That's the thing. Neither could I. He used to be the most. He used to require all of my attention, all of the time, lest he wither and waste away. A ghost of the dog he could have been. My words, not his. I mean, maybe he doesn't talk, but he's so full of attitude that it's not hard to understand how he thinks. Puck doesn't jump up to greet me anymore. He doesn't paw at my hands, trying to guide them to his chest for his favorite kind of scratches. He doesn't shove his annoyingly cold nose in my ear for attention while I'm trying to watch a movie anymore, and he takes his time to eat now instead of scarfing his meals down like he's in a contest. He's always been gentle and very conscious of my space so that he doesn't accidentally hurt me.   Now it's as if he doesn't care at all. He's not annoying. He's not even petty anymore. It's like his personality is just gone. I miss him. I know what you're thinking. John, why did you just waste 300 words talking about your dog? Where's the meat of this story?  First of all, I did not waste time talking about my dog. I may just be a dog kind of guy, but my philosophy dictates that no time spent talking about dogs is time wasted. And for those of you who don't have dogs, I need you to know something. Dog behavior doesn't just change like that. Every dog has a personality, and that personality isn't just erased because of a change in scenery. I maxed out my credit card to take him to two different clinics to see if they could find anything wrong with him. But both doctors looked me in the eye and stated that he is a picture of good health.  I should have seen that red flag for what it was. I should have noticed as Puck became more jumpy, more nervous on his walks. I should have noticed that he did his business as fast as possible before tugging on his leash to go home. That dog used to love meandering on his walks, giving everything in his nose range a good long sniff before moving on to the next interesting thing. I first heard the mountains noise last night at around three in the morning. I woke up in a cold sweat, the familiar sleep paralysis demon fading to the darkest recesses of my mind. That demon is almost an old friend to me now. It's the most consistent thing in my life, second only to my dog. I would greet it with open arms if it didn't scare me so damn much. After I checked the time, I rolled onto my other side to cuddle closer to Puck. I didn't normally like sleeping with my back facing the room, exposed and vulnerable. But Puck granted me a sense of safety and security that I just couldn't get without burying my face in his fur. I had the same logic as a child pulling their sheets over their head to hide from the things that go bump in the night. It can't see me if I can't see it. I was introduced to the sound about ten minutes later.  He glared at the window across the room, ears perked to listen through the closed blinds. He didn't move beyond this, but I felt the fur of his hackles raise against my face. A deep growl started in his chest, quiet as if he was frightened but didn't want to be heard. It was then that the crickets fell quiet. An intense ringing filled my ears as my brain tried to make up for the sudden void in my senses and it felt as though I fell to the bottom of a mountain. The air pressure seemed to increase immensely, so much so that I was forced to pop my ears to keep the ensuing pain at bay.  In the silence that followed, I heard it. A dull roar tingled at the edge of my senses. Barely there, I couldn't make out whether I was imagining it or not. I cursed at my younger self for always listening to music at the maximum volume and damaging my hearing, leaving tinnitus screaming at the edge of my mind for the rest of eternity. I sat up in bed to hear better and Puck scrambled up next to me. He seemed frightened, ears back, tail between his legs, but he stood his ground between me and the window in a protective stance reminiscent of a German shepherd's crouch. Puck's raised in a growl in his chest. He guarded me as the noise grew louder. The sound raised in pitch as it seemed to inch closer and closer to my house. A pristine example of the Doppler effect. The increasing intensity put me on edge. I didn't know what was happening, but I didn't feel safe and more importantly, Puck didn't feel safe. I could write off my own emotions as an anxiety induced paranoia, but Puck felt it too. I slipped my legs off the bed as quietly as I could, the cold of the hardwood floor jolting me as my toes hit the ground. With one shaky hand, I reached for Puck's collar, and the other felt around the side of my bed for the baseball bat that I kept for protection. I thought about guiding Puck by his collar out of the room and into the hall, but elected to carry him instead. His claws would make too much noise against the floor. I shushed his growling as softly as I could. While the sound gained traction outside, now beginning to engulf the side of my house that faces up the mountain, the sound was screaming over the roof now. Like a thousand people were crouched on my house, mouths to the shingles and the walls and the windows. Each mouth was letting out the most god-awful wail. My window looked out over the Piedmont, and the sound hadn't quite reached the south-facing wall yet. I didn't want to stick around for that. Phone slipped safely into the back pocket of my sweats. I scooped Puck up in my arms. I shifted his weight to my left side so that I could comfortably hold the baseball bat in my dominant hand. I backed into the hallway as the sound consumed the rest of my house. Puck whimpered in my arms as I retreated into the bathroom. It was the only room in the house that didn't have a single window, but the screams seemed to amplify off of the tile flooring and walls, leaving the lights off. I set Puck down on the bath mat and turned to shut the door.  It made me feel better. I peered out the window at the end of the hall, trying to make out any shadows against the blinds, but there was nothing. No hint of movement outside, no rustling against the glass. There was nothing but the screaming emanating from the forest around my house.  I was trying not to add to the cacophony of noise, terrified that it may be heard by ears that didn't belong to my dog. I carefully inched it closed, and with a quiet, yet resounding click, the outside world fell silent. It took me a moment to realize. In the darkness of my bathroom, with the only sound coming from Puck's panting and my own heartbeat, I didn't so much hear the silence as felt it. It echoed through my eardrums, still ringing from the noise, and my head nearly imploded from the lack of stimulation. Cold fingers of sweat caressed my spine. As we sat in the dark, I was standing at the sink, bat at the ready in case something decided to make its way through the door. Puck was cowering behind me, curled somewhere between the tub and the toilet. He was done being brave. It was my turn to protect him. Puck's barking shattered the silence that enveloped us, tearing through it like a saw blade through flesh. Aggressive and dangerous, I tried to make him quiet down, but it was too late. Whoever they were, whatever it was, already knew we were here. I think they knew the moment that the U-Haul I rented first trundled up the drive. Something grabbed me by the nape of the neck. Hard, my bat clattered to the ground, useless. Ice cold and razor sharp at the same time, the grip was loosened, and it almost caressed me. From my neck to my shoulder, and back up to my neck. Puck was silent by now, only letting out a whimper here and there. I choked back a sob, trying desperately not to turn my head to see what was touching me. And then the movement on my neck stopped. The freezing appendage rested gently above my clavicle. I felt a presence lean forward behind me, and a miniscule gust of air brushed against my ear. It was close enough to me that I felt it inhale more than I heard it. And then it screamed, frozen in place. All I could do was listen. I couldn't move on my own volition. And then I screamed. I screamed until my lungs were raw. I screamed until my throat was bleeding. I screamed until my voice was gone. I'm unsure of how long I stood there screaming. It felt like an eon, but I don't think people normally live that long. I screamed until I wasn't anymore. I woke up in my room this morning with sunlight streaming through my window. Somebody had drawn up the blinds, and I was left with an unobstructed view of the Piedmont. Kudzu covered the mountainside, undisturbed by the events of last night. Unsettled, I padded back over to my bed and sat down next to Puck. He looked up at me, bedhead ruffling the fur around his ears, and I gave the space between his ears a little kiss. He turned towards the window before facing back to me, a little whimper in his throat, and fear in his eyes. Everything seemed calm, but the fear of last night was still palpable in the room. I decided then that Puck and I would be spending the night holed up in the bathroom. Whatever it was, managed to get into the room regardless of walls or doors, but the smaller space and lack of windows gave me some semblance of comfort. I don't know how good it'll do, or if it would do anything at all. But I dug through my mother's old jewelry and pulled out a couple of her cross necklaces. One got attached to Puck's collar, and the other one has been wrapped around my hand all night. If I could afford it, and have the money left to pay my mortgage at the end of the month, I would be absolutely staying in a hotel tonight. Hell, if I hadn't closed on this house already, I would have been moved out earlier this afternoon. I would have talked to the police about it. But they'd say it was some bizarre form of nightmare. I would think so too, but Puck was, and still is, right there in the fear with me. It wasn't a dream. I really wish that it was. As it is, it's nearing three in the morning. I'm sitting scrunched up in the bathtub, Puck between my feet. I've spent the last while writing this, and it seems that I've caught up to the present, just in time for the crickets to hush their cry.  I'm terrified. Wish me luck.


The Cayuna Range Youth Center was the place to be today where students from Crosby-Irton were able to learn about resources in the community to help them stay healthy and happy. A reporter Rachel Johnson has more. The Cayuna Range Youth Center is an organization that provides a free, fun and safe place for kids to hang out on Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings. We try to bring in different programming groups and allow some volunteering opportunities as well. Cooking and skill sessions, stuff like that. Yeah, a fun, safe place for them to be with their friends. The Youth Center has put on a health fair for the last two years to introduce seventh, eighth and ninth graders to the center and also to help resources available in the community. Yes, they have their health class, but this accentuates that. It doesn't just show the youth center. It shows all the important pieces that they can have for resources. We reach out to our community supporters, our community partners, ask them to come in. So we kind of show that, yes, this many people care about you. Like, you matter to us. This is all about you today. There were games, store prizes, free books, food and even Zumba demonstrations for the attendees to participate in. Zumba has been a hit, dance fitness. Making them feel like I'm not exercising, I'm not being punished, but it's a fun way that can roll over into your life well beyond teenage years. Students were able to wander the fair and visit booths, each demonstrating a different health topic or service in the community. One of the booths had a game where students had 60 seconds to match up. Which drink? Had how much sugar? It's great. It's lots of fun. People are dancing. I'm having Subway sandwiches. It's just a good day. The youth center's main goal with the fair is to prepare students for whatever challenges they might be facing or that they might face in the future. If they're not experiencing this right now, they have a resource and they know I remember when I went to the health fair they talked about this and now I know I can go talk to someone and say how can I find out about these people again and that's the whole idea. Over 200 students walked through the doors of the youth center today. Nice job. Each taking home something different and helpful from the fair. Reporting from Crosby, Rachel Johnson, Lakeland News. The health fair was made possible through a grant from Crow Wing Energized. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


Oh, no Catch oh Look what happened He can't be holding the ball and his foot touching the boundary at the same time Otherwise it counts as a six and he looks down at his foot and realizes he played the spacing not correctly and he's like That's pretty game-changing would have got out Dost who's one of their good hitters left him with just all bowlers left instead He's still up now. We got another play at the boundary. This one's a nice one saves four runs keeps it to just two I believe but look at that Wow four runs if it goes over the boundary on a hop or rolls to the boundary six if it goes over But in the end Bangladesh got all the runs They need it as this ball plops down on the grass then rolls very cutely and the Tiger man dances


So I'm super excited about today's video because I am doing a collab with my good friend Monika from Monika's Beauty and Lifestyle, her channel. And Monika and I have been trying to get together to do a collab for a couple of years now, and it just never seemed to be the right time. So we're finally at the point to where we worked for both of us, and I can't be more excited to do it. If you haven't had a chance to go over and see Monika, I think you're going to love her channel. Monika is from back east. She does a lot of traveling with her husband in her RV, and she loves beauty. She does a lot of derma rolling tutorials where she shows you what she's doing with that. She wears wigs a lot, and so she has a lot of knowledge about that too because she is trying out wigs and companies are sending them to her. And she really does a great job on her reviews of that. And I really appreciate I think what got me started watching Monika more than anything is she's just very relaxed behind the camera. She's a beautiful woman, and she just really isn't pretentious about anything. And I think that's really what got me hooked on her channel and started watching her channel. And she probably doesn't know this, but she is one of the first gals that I started watching that I felt like, oh man, maybe I can do this too. Because of her laid back nature and just her bubbly personality. And so if you haven't seen Monika before, I encourage you to go over and visit her and say hi for me. And subscribe if you enjoy her content because she's just a great person. And she's such a loving person too, and that comes through on her videos. And so I'm excited to do the collab with her. And of course, we're going to be talking about both of our favorite topics, and that is skincare.  It's been really important to keep up with our self care. But I have found that there are some things that I have gravitated more towards while in quarantine than before. So I'm going to share those five things with you right now. And we're going to get started on this video of the five products I've been using the most during the quarantine. One of the things that I've been using quite a bit, and this is kind of a transition into summer, but it's kind of quarantined too, is I've been using a lot of the Tantals products, and they are my absolute favorite for self tanning. And the nice thing about using the Tantals is the Tantals themselves are little squares or not little squares. These are actually huge ones. This product that I get, they actually give you six of these full size, and then they give you six of a half size. Now a half size will do my arms and all over my chest, my back, and then at least up to my knees. So, you know, my knees are at least, or my calves are at least getting some color on them. So you get 12 Tantals, and then you get this really great gradual self tanner too, which I really like because it's a moisturizer as well, and it's a really good moisturizer. So you're using these when you want the burst of color like overnight, you want to really become quite tan, and then you use this in between these to keep your tan really pretty, and I really like that. And the really nice thing about it too is I've been testing different tanning products while in quarantine, and this is the one that stood out the best. Sometimes when you do self tanners as they fade away, they can really look patchy and junky, or you can get really patchy just when you're using them, and these don't do that. So I'm really excited about these. I love having Tantals. It's a product that I've used for years, but I really enjoy this gradual self tanner, and I love that this helps it fade in a natural way without having the patchiness. Another thing that I have been finding myself doing a lot more is a lot of sheet masks, and that is because I have a lot of time to do it. And that's kind of what all of these things are really about, is experimenting with things that I haven't had to go out like when it didn't work, and lots of times I'm on the go so much that I don't have time to do a sheet mask that takes 20 minutes. But I got these sent to me from Gin and Amber Beauty. These are really good, you guys. I think they come in a pack of 12, and I really like how moisturizing these are, how soothing they are. This one says that they are soothing and smoothing. I love using masks because it gives your face that boost of moisturizer and that kind of really locked-in feeling for that 20 minutes, where nothing is, you know, escaping, especially if you're dry. Now, if you're not dry and you're kind of more on the combo oily side mask can still be good. You can get charcoal masks that can really kind of detoxify. And I have gotten these masks right here. This is the last one I have. I believe these come in 8, 10, or 12. I'll make sure that I link them for you. But this is the last one I have. This is the Milk one and it's moisturizing, but they have the Pearl one that's illuminating. They have a charcoal one.  And so, yeah, I've been doing a lot more masking and I wanted to tell you about those love masking because it just makes my skin feel so soft and hydrated afterwards. And speaking of soft and hydrated, I'm going to talk to you about this product again. This is the Alpha Skincare Healthy Radiant Skin Renewal Body Lotion with 12% glycolic acid. This has become my new best friend. And the reason that I've been using it so much during quarantine is because when you're in the house, the air inside the house seems to be a little bit more dry. And this has just been a lifesaver for my dry skin. And I am so happy that I finally tried this on the recommendation from Lori. Hi, Lori. That is one of my subscribers here. And you guys, you recommend the best things ever. I don't know why ever even question getting them. But this is a lotion that will help with all that creepy skin. When I lost my weight after surgery, all this skin right here on my arms and I have it on my legs too, got really creepy and really nasty. I can't even describe exactly what it was like, but it got like skin that looked really, really old and just dehydrated. And this stuff does the trick. It locks in all that moisture and it helps your skin just look more youthful. And the glycolic acid in it helps too because it does help slough off other skin. And glycolic acid is great for anti-aging as well. So I've been loving this. A little bit goes a long ways. It is a little bit more expensive. But for what it's meant to be in helping all that creepy skin, I love it. All right. Another thing that I've been enjoying so much for skincare during quarantine is experimenting with different oils. And the reason that I'm finding that I'm using them more while we're in quarantine is because I can experiment with different ones, find out which ones go really well into the skin, sink really well into the skin and find out which ones I can put a dropper to into my foundation or I can use just by themselves as a super hydrator, you know, put into my lotion and does a mix well with a lotion like this one that has the glycolic acid in it. And I'm an oil lover anyway. And when I originally started on oils, it was from the ordinary and it was their squalane oil or squalane oil, however you pronounce that. And I have a little one from Good Molecules right now that I purchased. I actually think I like the good molecules a little bit better. You aren't getting quite as much, but I do notice that this is a little bit better quality. It just seems to sink in a little bit faster. It just I like that it's in a little bit smaller bottle as well because I feel like those bigger bottles with oil, it takes a little bit longer to go through and oils are something that can degrade very quickly. So if you're going to get oils, a couple of things you want to remember, you need to use them up quite quickly. The other thing is, please always get them in a dark bottle because the sunlight and actually any light whatsoever will degrade them very quickly. So you want to use them up and you want to make sure that you get them in dark bottles like this one from Pixie. I'm actually in love with this one right now. I'm using this one every single night. This is their overnight retinol oil. And I just mix this with a little bit of my moisturizer and it just sinks in so nice. And I feel in the morning that my skin is so soft and so hydrated. And I love that this is a retinol oil too because I use it on nights when I'm not using my retinol, my retin A. I'm only able to use my 1% or 0.1% retin A right now once a week because of how sensitive my skin has become. So using a retinol product during the week when I'm not using it makes me feel like I'm doing a lot more for my skin because we all know retinol is such a wonderful anti-aging product. And then from the ordinary, there is the B oil. And this one particularly has several different kinds of oil rolled up into an anti-aging super oil. And so I'll make sure that I throw up on the screen what this has in it to all the different oils that it has in it. But it is a really great oil as well. And this one is green. It comes out and it looks a little bit green. Hopefully you can see that. Actually, I'll just put a little drop on my hand right here. But ooh, I almost spilled it. Okay. But what you want to know about it is that not only does it have that coloring to it, but again, that feeling of just sinking into the skin and being super hydrating. I absolutely love that. And I did put a lot on there. I didn't mean to do that. But it is a really, really great oil. So the Squalane oil from Good Molecules. I actually have another one from Good Molecules, which is their Rosehip seed oil. And then I have their super hydrating oil. Let's see. Ultra Hydration Facial Oil. And that has several different oils in it too. So I have several from Good Molecules. And then I have several from the ordinary that I use that I love. And the ordinary has one that is the Virgin Marula oil. That is a dupe for drunk elephant. So if you're using drunk elephant, this one is a fraction of the cost. And it's the exact same product just so you know that. I've been using that for a very long time. And I absolutely love all of these. Now this last one is kind of a little curve ball one. Because it is a skincare item, but it's also a supplement. And that is this Living Silica Collagen Booster that I got. And this is actually empty. So I'm on my second one. This says it strengthens joints and bones, beautifies skin hair and nails. It has so many benefits. I put this in my water in the morning. I actually use like crystal light or something like that. And so I will just put a tablespoon of this in my water in the morning.  This one says it has 375% greater absorption. And that's why I picked it up because it also has all of these on here. It's GMO free. It's gluten free. It is made in the USA. And I have used a collagen supplement for a long time in a powder form that I still am using up before I go ahead and break open my new bottle of this. But I don't feel like you need both. I don't feel like you need the collagen supplement and the silica supplement. I feel like you can do either or. And the reason that I felt like I was using it more during quarantine is because I was remembering it more because you're home and you're doing, you know, the things you should drinking your water and all those things. And so using my supplements was a big thing and I had had this for a while and I was about three quarters of the way through it. And when I finally started using it every day then I really started to notice the benefits of it. I felt like my skin really benefited from it. I felt like it was softer and it was holding more moisture. And I just felt like it was really good for that.   So I wanted to make sure that I told you about that one as well and I think it's an outstanding product even though it is a little bit on the pricier side it is something that's going to last you a few months. Well, I think it lasted me about two and a half months when I first, when I finally started taking it very religiously. So definitely love that one too. So that is it for today's video. I hope that you did enjoy seeing my five most reach for products while we have been shut in in quarantine. And do you guys have certain things that you have been reaching for more during the quarantine? I'd love to hear about that. I think that we're either, you know, a lot of us aren't wearing any makeup or a lot of us are wearing more makeup or we're doing more skincare or we're not doing enough skincare. So there's things that we're reaching for more and it can't be candy cakes or cookies. It's just so you guys know. It has to be something different because I know that. I know that feeling of doing the whole eating thing. I feel like I'm putting on the freshman 15 only. It's not the freshman 15. It's the 15 quarantine. So hope you guys are doing really well. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Please make sure you go over and say hello to Monica and make sure you tell her that I sent you. Love you guys very much and I'll catch you all in my next video. Take care. Bye-bye.


We have our esteemed panelists here ready to take any questions that you might have if you'll post them in the question and answer portion of the of the webinar will be we will get to them. I have I have a couple to start with a couple that came in earlier after some after a couple of presentations. We'll start with the, the philosophical one first. So Adam, you're ready. This is the question is, where does the argument that humans, since they have the capacity to reduce human misery, but also improve animal lives, have the responsibility to act upon it, even if it means the use of animals that do not have that ability. Is this consequentialist consequentialistic approach or speciesism. So, I think, in ethics we distinguish sometimes between who's the patient of an ethical action and who's that agent, which sounds sort of technical but the patient is the being or person who's affected by an action and the agent is who's making the decision. And so I think a lot of when we're talking about consequentialism or non consequentialism, that's more focused on what you should be doing if you're already a moral agent who has a responsibility to make decisions. So I don't think the question of who has the responsibility that cleanly fits into those those buckets, but a lot of people have made the argument over years that you know human of course are are unique in our cognitive abilities and so we have unique responsibilities as as moral agents that other animals don't don't have. So, I don't know if anyone else wanted to add anything to that. The next question I have is for Dr. France. And that is that we, there are different levels of our access to social or our ability to post on social media one being. I have a personal page. I have a laboratory page of my institution also has pages. So, do you have any advice as to like if I have my personal page should I create a lab page where I post most of my, most of my scientific stuff and just keep my personal page separate. And then my institution obviously has their own rules, and I will have to submit to someone probably. And I think it depends on the institution with how much you need to have approval on what you're posting and and it depends on what you're sharing as well. I think having your lab page having a page that is devoted to what you're working on your science is a great idea. It can be linked to a website it really can be focused have a lot of facts about what you're doing. And you have a lot more control over that, but I don't think necessarily keeping that separate I think you can share your information that you have on your lab page then on your personal page because you likely have different audiences with both of them, and we need to be reaching all of them. Yes, you of course need to abide by your institutional rules. But I think a lot of institutions are becoming more and more comfortable talking about animals and research I know Emory is a great example of one that now shares all of their Brad events they on their on the official Emory University page they share photos and talk about Brad. So I think it's it's a movement that we need to keep doing it if we do it little by little on our personal pages and on our lab pages, then our institutions will join us as well. So, yesterday we learned about the eight second rule. How can we effectively communicate ethics by fault, following that eight second rule. I'm gonna start your timer yet I'm still thinking. Yeah, I mean I guess. I mean obviously there's there's tension between the academic practice of thinking long and hard about certain topics and and the goal of communicating effectively with the public. I think, if you only have eight seconds, you just need to hope that you have that you have a value that already resonates with people and and tap into that value. So, I don't know, other people might have different. Take a swing at that and it won't be eight seconds to use them up. I think one way to do it is to say decisions are going to be made actions are going to be taken they'll affect you are involved you can we talk about it. Like, literally, would you like to talk about it. And the reason I think that gets you into ethics is the immediate question is what's the decision what's going to happen who's affected who benefits who's harmed what what will have to be done, which gets you into an inclusive conversation that isn't about my values or your values is things will happen, whether we do something or not. Let's talk about how those might happen what our values are. That wasn't eight seconds. So also probably not going to be eight seconds I've been thinking about this since yesterday and lost sleep over it clearly. But I think from my standpoint as a lab animal that usually, especially if we're having this conversation of ethics and how can you be a vet and still condone animal research. My, the way I say it and maybe this isn't really an ethical but just a personal I always just tell them. At the end of the day I know where I stand morally and I know that animals will be used in research and I want to be the ones to protect them, and I kind of leave it at that and I let them kind of take away whatever they want from it. Yeah, and I think one of the things to that we may have learned is you have eight seconds to grab their attention to get to the next eight seconds you know so yeah. There's a comment and a question in the in the chat. And it's about Temple Grandin and work that she's done on humane treatment of animals and maintaining open dialogue with the public and how well she's done with that. And understanding that that you know she advocates non anthropomorphic anthropomorphic understanding of animals perspective, and how they communicate and how that can guide decisions. And should we use more of work like that to highlight be highlighted in our discussions about research, and he mentioned that Nicole alluded to that idea in her session. Any thoughts comments. So that's a, that's a great point and actually at Marshall we worked with with a behaviorist who was a student of Temple Grandin's and so it was great and I think that that's a really important point. And considering how we're looking at animals I can give an example just working with the pigs that we were always very conscious about the way that they see and approaching them in a very specific way because their eyes are the size of their head so we would go low and go to the side make sure they could see us. So I think that that is is something that we should be when we're talking about. I think so we're talking about what's best for the animal that we should be paying attention to the animals perspective we do that with ferrets and cats to they like to have a vertical environment and sometimes we can forget about that because we're used to just having a horizontal environment and room to climb and room to explore. So I think that's an excellent point. So I'm going to change topics just a little bit. Yesterday we talked about how veterinarians are such a trusted source of information, but we don't always hear from them in other in the venues that reach the public. What do you all have to say about how we can further veterinarians participation and reach in that space. So for me what I think is visibility within the veterinary community is a great place to start and creating those allies. This means that the lab animal vets need to talk to their veterinary colleagues because as we have mentioned there there isn't always that understanding. So universities are great places to start because your clinicians are doing animal trials or animal research and the bridging of the gap happens right there at that level and and what a great way to start into ease into that that bigger discussion to get people involved and get all veterinarians at a similar understanding of what we as lab animal vets do. So I think talking about the role of animal research and how it benefits animals and how it allows veterinarians to practice medicine and making sure that they understand that and it starts it. It starts young K through 12 I mean we need to start getting in there but it also in that school I mean there is more of a focus on making sure veterinary students are aware of different career opportunities and understand the role of these animals in veterinary medicine as a whole. So there are lots of approaches and tactics we try to get Brad, when we have multiple vet clinics that participate in Brad and we have pamphlets and handouts that are really targeting their clients that say we have a treatment for heartworm because of research and dogs or because of X, Y and Z. So lots of approaches I think need to be done in order to make sure that they are contributing to this message. I have a question for Samar. So we've been talking a lot today about about the openness initiative and that's an actual thing. And then about all of us being more open from from a media point of view, does that help you. How do you feel about I mean where does that sit with you as a. I mean, I'm very grateful for them things are a lot more open and makes my job easier makes a fellow journalist job easier. And I think, I think the I just want to underscore the importance of openness right there's this idea that if you say nothing on a quite on a topic right the worst of what's already out there is the official party line without any, any of your side with any pushback. So I think that's ultimately that's important for the public is important for journalists as well right if I can get someone to refute what some animal rights group is saying or another idea, another strain of thought, right then I'm just going to publish with the animal rights group said and said, I tried to reach out to scientists but they did not comment. They didn't respond to my calls. Right. So it is. I mean, obviously talking to media will always have a stock. I mean, because there will always be the risk of being misquoted. And there's ways to manage that so for example we spoke about journalists who maybe come from organizations or outlets that focus exclusively on animal rights and they might not be as friendly to your position. I still think it's worth engaging them, but maybe instead of having a telephone interview where you're worried about things going out of control being taken out of context, you send an email statement. Right where's very clear you said this and then both sides know exactly what's been said. So I think it is openness is great for everyone because I think it helps the public get a sense of what what are these faceless scientists doing. And it also gives the media an opportunity to engage I mean something I wanted to mention on the last question is for veterinarians. What can they do well one thing is to become friends with the journalists right find out who the journalists are at your local paper, who the science journalists are, get to know them, offer yourself as a resource. Just because you might not be quoted in a piece that it's always nice to be quoted sometimes, but it is something where if you can be a resource if you can help someone out. Journalists can be very appreciative and you can help me ensure the media stories are better quality for it. In the room. So I have a question for Dr France. I'm totally overwhelmed by what you described about social media. And I'm stuck on the things we want to communicate effectively about science. The big deal is that we want to convey the nuance and the complexity and all of that stuff. It seems sort of fundamentally incompatible with the the short, clear, clean messages. Is it appropriate to say that the idea is to have lots and lots of those short messages that that we get to the nuance that way or. It's certainly an approach and maybe the most appropriate approach these days we know that we aren't going to have someone stay on our post for a long time and read a whole big caption on something. So giving bite sized pieces more frequently. If you talk to some of these plate companies that are really really on it with social media they'll have that every day they're posting three different posts for example. Yeah, that can feel overwhelming for someone don't make that your goal and don't be overwhelmed and we'll talk after, but there are lots of ways for you to do it that really give people little bits of information, and slowly, we're moving the needle, a little bit. So, but I know what you're saying in terms of the we're trying to convey something that is so complex but we don't have the attention span of someone who can understand that and listen so yes bite size, little bits. Good question, thank you. I'm going to come back to my question for Adam. I, you know, I have very mixed thoughts about species him, but we know that Peter singers book that was released is in my mind I've distilled it down that the reason we do what do you want to label them bad things needed things, whatever is because we're just, we feel that as humans we have domination stewardship whatever term you want to use over non humans even though we're all animals. I do remember that Peter said that he thought sentience stopped at shrimp that shrimp had sentience and muscles didn't. And I, you know, I really don't know how what to do with that information, but I love to hear your thoughts. About speciesism in particular the sort of where you draw the line with the sentence. There's been. Okay, I think I need to speak closer. So there's been interesting research from London School of Economics they have a group that looks at consciousness and different species and so they've been publishing interesting stuff about different invertebrates. So I'll just say that quickly but speciesism I think is a really interesting topic because the way that it was defined by singer is making decisions purely on the basis of species membership. And so I guess, as an ethicist who's kind of study that I think it's interesting because some people say, Oh yeah I'm proudly a speciesist or you know I I'm definitely a speciesist because I think humans should get priority. And what's interesting is if you're making that decision based on some capacity that you think humans have like cognitive capacity or the ability to form social agreements or whatever else. So technically is not speciesist according to the original definition. So, so I think people kind of use it in different ways, sometimes. But to me where it is could be viewed as a criticism as if you're only looking at species as a reason for treating one being less than the other. And there's not some other characteristic that you can point to like increase capacity to feel pain or, you know, the ability to form preferences about the future. So, yeah.  So you're, if you're going to claim to be a species that has to be something that no other species demonstrates is that what you're saying. Um, I mean, I guess, in the world we live in, it was just, you know, there are lots of capacities that humans have that other species don't have. And if you think that those capacities are kind of what gives moral standing or gives an increased reason to treat humans differently. Then I think it wouldn't be speciesist according to that original technical definition, but yeah. Two questions. One for Dr. Yates. If an investigator or researcher is targeted, should institutions have resources available to assist them or be prepared for such targeting? I do. In our institution, in all institutions should. They should be able to support people in terms of security. Now, some people have asked, can the University Police Department go out and protect their home. In our community, they're not legally allowed to, but they can interface with our local law enforcement and help out in that way and just to lure our local law enforcement that this person may be targeted. For example, an investigator, if they are, if there is a demonstration at their home, and it may actually be a completely legal demonstration because people actually do have the right to protest in front of your home if they do it legally. But to alert the University Police Department and they'll call the local police department and emphasize the importance of this particular event. There's a number of things that we do. We give security advice to people as well in terms of how to protect themselves in their home. We also tell them if there are any direct threats, let us know of it immediately. And our police department will promptly contact the FBI and get the FBI involved. So many things that we do to help protect people. One other question if I may. This is sort of directed to Dr. Kwan, but what we've learned the last two days, everybody can answer. So Dr. Kwan, you presented that this animal enthusiast or animal impression is a great way to engage and get the message across. But from the survey, we saw that there might be as many as 30% of the people that have no knowledge about science and they don't care about animals and research. We need to engage these people. So this is for the whole community here at the table, because they do have say in what our Congress and our local community members are voting on. And how do we engage them? Because the people who care about animals, be it to stop animal research or to support it, those are the people that are listening. How do we catch that middle peak that Samir showed? And how do we how do we really engage that group?  No, someone doesn't like animals. And I think that's the first. I think that's a lot of reactions most people would have even in society because animals are such a big part of our lives. And so it's also kind of kicking back that question of when they say they don't care about science or they don't care about animals to what capacity have they interacted with them. There are some people out there who, for instance, they might have a farm dog. And maybe when they're answering the survey, they might not, they might not really understand, they might just be like, Oh, yeah, I don't know anything about science or I don't, I don't care about animals, whatever. But then they're not thinking about Oh, but my farm dog protects my sheep. And so I think it is something that we have to work on though because there is a part of that society that has this voter ability. I can't say I can answer that question right now because I think that's something that all of us can work on is how do we reach these people, because I think, again, it's the work we could all be animal enthusiasts but there's different levels of enthusiasm and there's different approaches to it. I mean, we were using a lot of positive examples where people keep their animals really close to their hearts. But for some people it's a livelihood like when we talk about livestock. We're going to talk about ranchers. And so they have a different, they sort of have a different relationship with those animals doesn't mean they're not enthusiastic or they don't care about them. But maybe with how we word questions, they might not consider themselves someone who cares about animals, because maybe in their mind they're like, Oh, it's a food source, but that's something that's also valuable to society. So maybe it's just re re approaching how we think it right.  So it's the question then is that can you reframe these discussions about animal or science broadly speaking right in terms of Oh I mean think about your mom or dad has had this disease right well this animal research helped create a cure. Right. And I think it's just reframing things in terms of what people really care about. And I think it's even more foundational. There's not a platform that's available for the public, and they wouldn't know how to reach a university if the scientists aren't out there if the institutions aren't promoting actively what they would like to, then I think the public needs to be made aware in some places. This is talking about communications departments. So if that can happen and then a platform can be put in place, much like every other animal related issue, then I think the communication will greatly improve. I agree along those lines, public education campaigns are a great way to get the word out. I think Americans understand certain concepts better thanks to public education campaigns with billboards and ads. A lot of issues can be untangled that way. I'll agree with those and say I was struck by the survey data that showed I think about 80% of the people endorsed livestock. Remember 34% for it's easy to connect the consequence hamburger bacon if one chooses to meet. If you talk about livestock you know what the consequences of interfering with the ability to eat meat. When you get to animal research, you have no such direct connection at all, right, it's too many different steps. So one of the reasons I think the drug labels would work is it's absolutely a direct connection to people who are consuming medicines for their pets for humans it's look that's animal research qr code. Go find out more about it, but it's the consequence and making that connection. I think we too might hopefully the last two days will help us to connect with all those people through social media through our websites, because because the first thing people do. And I know this because my mother, my mother has something into Google that. And if the University of Pittsburgh came up or whoever came up as hey here's a you know an institution that studies this exact disease, and they may be able to help. Yeah. I just briefly about how we can support one another in our efforts to communicate with the public we have talked about how what institutions can do to help support individuals trying to make these connections. Do you all think that there are other bodies that should be doing more of this. And if so what can they do that may that be funding agencies or nonprofits or other non governmental organizations. I definitely think that NIH could do more. I mean they fund a lot of the work, and they've not always been so outspoken about the benefits of animal research they put some stuff out there but not a lot. They certainly could do a lot more in this area arena. I think that private industry could do more too. I'm going to say it, I think that, you know, a lot of this relies on the academics and academics are already very open and I think that if we could have a more united front across the entire research spectrum that that could be really really beneficial. I was just going to say we talked about these big the NIH institutions, academics and contracts, but individuals each person, we all should be doing more individually talking to family and friends. I have a friend who I swear she is an animal research advocate now because she knows what I do, and she tells everyone about it so all of these conversations make a difference. I completely agree and I think we've seen in other social movements that's what transforms things is not media or anything like that but person to person communications, you know someone who does animal research, I trust them therefore I know it's okay. I have a dad that I think what has swayed all my family and friends and they all ask me now is what's exciting coming out of the University of Pittsburgh. So I'll just jump right into I'm doing animal based research, I start sharing the these great discoveries and some of them seem like they're science fiction when when you're telling them so you're wrapping around there and then you can get back well here's how I support that. It works really well. Candice would you like to go. Thank you. And I thought it might be a good opportunity to ask Adam smart or Logan. Is there a question that you wish we would have asked that hasn't been asked yet. I have a question. Um, is everyone aware of citizen sciences has anybody thought about how citizen science can be part of these communication efforts. That was actually a part of my graduate work. And I wasn't as involved with it because it was at the tail end of my research but we studied ticks and we studied where ticks occurred and we studied Lyme disease. And so what we did was that we partnered with a master's student in computer science to create an app that's called tick encounters.  And so what you can do with the app is you can take the app take a picture of the tick it can help you identify it with some of the information coming out of I think it's wrong but it's University of New Hampshire I think where they actually have tick encounters and they have a kind of like this is how you identify a tick. And the idea behind this is we wanted to understand the spatial distribution of specific species of ticks, because all of the ticks can transmit Lyme disease. But we also wanted to see where we're dogs picking them up, where we're humans interacting with them, and the idea was sort of this bigger like idea that with the citizens help because we can't be out there a scientist dragging in the field all the time to get these ticks and so I'm not sure if other people have utilized that but that's been something that we've been talking about, especially when I talk about research to veterinarians. We are all scientists by nature but we might not call ourselves researchers. And so one of the talks that I gave to my classmates was that I really wanted them to encourage them even if you're going into a clinical setting. There's a lot of data you can collect with permission of course that you can then use to kind of forefront like hey you know we noticed that a ton of our dogs had this but we traditionally treat with this but we tried this and just collecting that data from just your local clinics and then go and be helpful elsewhere so I'm not sure of anyone else's experience with citizen science this way but that's why we've utilized it. I'm actually, I haven't heard that term before but I experienced it a lot especially in vet schools and I think vet schools are pretty good at this because they have a lot of clinical trials for animals and they'll ask the general public do you have a dog that meets these criteria and would like to partake in a clinical animal trial or veterinary students do you want to enroll your own animal in a clinical trial and I know plenty of friends that did that and I think it's it's a great stepping stone into research because it's obvious that animals in animal research helping animals make sense to a lot of people and what could that lead to in their thought of well if animals can help animals can animals help people in veterinary schools already do that and and maybe they need to broadcast it even more but it is evident as a vet student and it might be a good way to communicate to other veterinarians as well what that research process is like because they're already doing it. Now that our panelists had a moment to thank Candice could you repeat your question. I can. So, I think one of one of the questions that I was hoping would have been answered actually came up. And now I'm going to go back to Samar and Adam. Is there a question you wish you had been asked or that we thought to ask you that we didn't that would be valuable for other scientists listening to hear the answer to you. I mean I guess I want to reiterate something about what does it mean for veterinarians, these other research scientists to be friends with journalists and sort of what's the what's the point of that what's the importance of that how can you do that. I mean, I think it is really for journalists a question often comes and it's one of the difficulties is sourcing. How do you find the people to talk to right often you do Google searching. You might read other news articles on this topic might reach out to the same people right or if you're being innovative maybe you'll reach out to the colleagues, the people that have been quoted themselves. But the point being is that it's sourcing is difficult right it's difficult to know who will have expertise who will know this. So I think that people are in need of these friends right people that they can reach out trusted to don't necessarily have a stake in them. They don't have this sort of self interest and that oh I need to be in the article I need to, I need to be front and center and be represented, but more than I just want to help you do good science. So I think it is it requires a proactive nature though because it requires the potentially finding out who are the science journalists in your area, who covers the topic coming out of university. The only benefit of that is that they might be more interested in your research or your colleagues research right they'll at least it'll be more on their radar. And I think that's often a question because journalists are, I mean, habitually overwork there's tons of stories they could cover. But if you're a friend of theirs and you can say hey there's interesting thing that the so and so is doing just wanted to flag it for you. Right, it might increase the likelihood that it is covered might increase the likelihood that the public gets to know about it. So I didn't want to pour ice on this but my experience has been it's either the Corporation Council for the institution, or it's the handlers, the PR folks who put the brakes on scientists approaching anyone or anyone approaching a scientist. I'm not painting with a broad brush and saying that these are bad people I think they're, they're being supremely protective of the interests of their institutions, but I think there needs to be a little bit of flex and more engagement with the media in these areas. I had a follow up Samir. One thing that may be lacking in the veterinary profession. If you ask veterinary schools, what they do for public media training. It was like 20 years ago there were no business classes and veterinary schools and now it's almost mandatory in most of veterinary things. So, it might be something that as a society, we could improve that because we see what the public perceives veterinarians as. And now they don't have training on being that media representative. And that's why Bill won't let me speak for the university so. I'll let you add a mini thing. Not to put you on the spot but if there is. I'll be a little and answer or bring up a discussion that was not on camera so for the audience at home it didn't happen. But Jessica and I had a nice conversation earlier about just sort of the idea of teaching ethics in vet schools and I've had conversations with Candace actually about this as well before she went and decided to get busy by being a vice provost. I do think that there's, I kind of feel like vet schools and places that involve interacting with animals haven't yet totally cracked the code of how to like effectively teach ethics. So, I would love to see more discussions and collaborations among groups like this about ways of trying to sort of convey a shared language that that would be helpful for people to have these conversations in the future. I mean, do you have a comment about that. I do too real quick. Interestingly, we are required to have our graduate students go through ethics courses, maybe not all our professional students that's just about the question of teaching ethics. But I understand I don't know personally, the curriculum for teaching ethics in law schools is heavily tilted toward one set of values. So how would you. How do you promote the teaching of ethics that is not teaching one particular set of values. Yeah, so that I mean I think that is part of the challenge because I think I've seen it different different ways at different schools where it and I mean this is well yeah like part of the problem is that so much of how ethics is taught at a particular level depends on who happens to be the person teaching it and what their views are that you know that semester. And so I don't know I guess I think teaching it as a method of inquiry and as asking questions more than coming up with specific conclusions is one way to approach it but if there was if there was an easy answer like that it probably would have been implemented by now so but I think I think the idea is just to hopefully the people who are teaching ethics have some humility humility and sort of understand that what they're trying to do is get the students to think critically and enjoy grappling with the difficult questions, rather than sort of just imparting a set of values on the students. I'd like to make a follow on comment to what Dr. Shriver just said and what Dr. Wong asked, and what Dr. Hennigar reported or Dr. Hasfield reported that Dr. Grandin said about anthropomorphizing and about teaching ethics. I'm just curious. To me, it, it strikes me quite strongly that the animal in research issue seems to be a single issue campaign. And if we're talking about having veterinary students or graduate students medical students philosophy students, we're not agitating about this in an ethics class, you know, it's quite, it's chilly here in DC, and some folks have a goose down coat, or some folks, you know, might have chicken for lunch, and some people have animals and other vegetarians who are being monitored right now. I'm just curious why the focus, you know, circles around to these with this caution about not anthropomorphizing, and this question about teaching ethics and are there a single set of values I think it becomes very confusing when we make these single issue campaigns. To follow up on Candace wanting topics we haven't spoken of. Quite interesting to hear what the panel has to say about incorporating this message of animal research into the one health spectrum. You know, Dr. Quan talked about doing, you know, parasite work in the field and ecology and bringing it back to lab and getting it out. Can we use this message to improve our communications or to better explain how we're all interrelated both in the medical human aspect, the animal welfare and even the environment. Any thoughts. I can comment a little bit about this and this is from my personal experience being a extern with CDC in their epidemiology elective program, which is a really great program for anyone out there who's a veterinary student or medical student. The idea is to bring us all together in this one health approach. What a lot of people don't realize with one health is actually started more in the veterinary realm and now has sort of expanded out. And this conception that it's all for human benefit. And I think they forget that we are also supposed to take the component of environment into consideration ecology all of that. And so I do believe that there is a place where veterinarians can step in especially the ones who are familiar with research use in animals can bring it out to these greater sort of communities but how we do that I think is we have to go back to basics and we have to not really reclaim one health but I think we have to redefine and make sure that we're getting the right message across because I think when you say one health to a veterinary student. We start to immediately think like the ecosystem and the elephants and you know and you're really thinking broadly, but when you talk to a medical student about what one health means to them. They're really thinking about human populations, sort of these countries that may not have access to health care. And what does that look like in terms of the disease what can we do and it's interesting because then we start to not really agree on where's the value in animals in that realm. And so again this is long winded, but it's more so I think we have to go back to redefining what one health is reminding people how inclusive that is of both animals and humans and I think once we have that conversation, and we can connect research into that realm I think will have a better understanding and I think we can really appeal to a lot of people in the healthcare profession not just we keep mentioning medical and medical doctors human and veterinarians but also the nurses the pharmacists anyone who's involved in the healthcare can I just jump in because I listened to a lecture recently by Jerry time bomb on one health versus one medicine. Okay, and one medicine is where this originated from, which was between animals and humans mainly tied to health. But one health, as he was explaining is includes now environmental ecology planetary health. And so it becomes a very diffuse and people get confused over it. And his plea was that we should return to one medicine, because it is sort of about the veterinary arena, and the human medical arena, and not that we're not worried about the rest of the world you know the planetary health and ecology, ecosystems, but we can't do it all. And so he feel he felt the term and he convinced me at the end that one health was unhealthy term to be using. And if we went to one medicine, we would be clear on what we want to do. So I wanted to ask a slightly different question. A little while ago you were talking about ethics and ethical norms, and it struck me as a very US lens. We have a lot of foreign talent in the United States we have a lot of collaboration with other countries. And there are a lot of countries that don't actually value the lives of animals, compared to humans and other things. And so when we're talking about and when we're thinking about how to communicate how to think about ethical norms standards that sort of thing. What sorts of things do you think about when you when you sort of put that international lens on. And, and if this is sort of an open ended question maybe this goes to Candice's sort of question as well as something that would be useful to follow up on in the future. I could comment real quick. Well people are thinking because I've worked globally and Asia, Europe, and US for many, many years and worked in countries where the rules and regulations sort of choke research, and we're worked in countries where the rules and regulations didn't help the animals there you know they say it was not a good situation. And I think what we did, but this would of course have to be at a national level, or international level is there, and I think there are inroads in the oh IE and in other groups for this on basic principles of animal welfare and animal experimentation. So, you know, this may seem silly but the, they get the right food and the right, you know, portable water, simple things like that that this cage size fits the needs of the species that are involved so you'd go to very core principles. So whether the society as a whole has a high level of care and concern or low level peer concern. Some doesn't really matter, because if they're part of the global organizations like the oh IE and others. They have to meet those core principles to be part of the worldwide medical area. But not everybody may not know what oh IE stands for. Can you explain that French and I can't. I can't remember but it's, it's basically an organization that I don't remember the French name so. Yeah, but oh IE is the French version. Oh, okay. We have a couple of comments in the chat that I think are worth putting out and that is one participant says that teaching should also be part of like that tech programs as well as DVM and VMDs and just other students and it is included in their curriculum. And, and that ethics is taught at virtually all medical schools and it's taught in a way that includes many views and perspectives and I think that's probably, you know the way that that we have to think about this everybody doesn't think like us always so. With that, any other questions in the room. Any questions from the panelists. That's more of a comment rather than question and I do respect all perspectives but I do want to leave another perspective related to One Health and as it relates to communication and scientific communication to, you know just the general public. So I know we talk about medicine but that's just a small aspect of One Health. One Health involves health period when you think about public health is not just medicine. That's why we have an ethicist. The ethicist is part of the social science process. The social science aspect of bringing different principles and values from all societies to talk about what is needed, or what people find valuable in a particular situation or particular group. So that's one aspect might have an economic principle. You may have an environmental principle that has to deal with just how things live. What is in that environment that may impact both animals and people that may not even be related to medicine at all. So I think we should kind of think more broadly in aspect of how do we bring all these disciplines to speak about how all these things are interrelated, and how do we communicate that so that people have a better understanding of what science is all about. Science isn't just medicine that's just one aspect. Science is all kind of things, whether it's technology, whether it's, you know, all kind of other principles. So I just want to leave that. Thank you. To say Brianne I agree with you fully. I just have no idea how it gets done. To go back to the previous comments, oh ie roughly translates to World Organization for animal health. And with that I would like to thank all of our panelists for their time and, and many cases their travel, and I would like to pass it back to our chair. So thank you again to everybody who participated the people who participated in the room the presenters the, the people who participated in the conversations, the committee members, all of the National Academy staff and all of the attendees of course. So, today we had some fairly robust discussion about openness what does it mean what's the spectrum. What have people experienced. We got some insights into the concerns of institutional leadership. We talked about communicating about ethics, learned about communicating on social media. And we're going to build the rest of our panel of presenters some more and very much appreciate all of you being involved in this and I hope I, I take from this last session that we have lots of more things to talk about. So I hope we can all continue the conversation and further improve, or, yeah, further improve our efforts to communicate effectively. I'd like to thank you all for attending the effective communication with the general public about scientific research that requires the care and use of animals workshop. We are at the close of our workshop, and I would like to express my gratitude to each and every one of you for your participation and contributions to the discussions that we've had over the last two days. And perspectives shared over the last two days have been invaluable in advancing our understanding of ways to effectively communicate about research that involves the use of animals. I would encourage each and every one of you to continue the discussion started here as we continue the work of learning to communicate effectively. If you're interested in viewing the recording from the workshop it will be available to the link on our National Academy's webpage. And as a reminder, under the meeting materials tab there are resources related organized by topic. You can access this directly by scanning the QR code at the top of the meeting book. And I would like to say thank you again to everyone for your interest in your attendance, and I hope that you enjoy the rest of your day.


The Minister of State for Petroleum Timor-Praise Silver has withdrawn from the presidential race in the all-progressive Congress and has returned to work. The Northern Solidarity Group had on May 9th presented the APC's Expression of Interest and Nomination Form to the minister to enable him to contest the party's 2023 presidential primaries. An official at the ministry who chased the remain anonymous said Silver withdrew from the race to support President Mohammed Buhari in his quest to achieve a robust oil sector.