Your fear of capture and imprisonment is an implant from millions of years ago Your spirit was free moving from body to the next body Free free for a moment Then it was captured by an invader force bent on turning you to the darkest way You've been implanted with a push-pull mechanism that keeps you fearful of authority and destructive We are in the middle of a battle that's a trillion years in the making and it's bigger than the both That's Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix from the movie The Master which is Kind of loosely based on the life of Elron Hubbard Which is a topic that we certainly talk about today in this interview with Gosh just a great great researcher and writer author Philip Fairbanks. Here's one of many clips I wanted to share with you Like you're saying with with Elron, you know, he doesn't only gets the girl then he says, yeah You know this strange boat deal like how we're gonna go to Miami and buy a boat and then sail it back here to California and we'll make a lot of money and we'll split it All's we need you to do Put up all the money and give us a free boat to get the other boat with So that's literally after but this is with Marjorie Marjorie Cameron that his ex like I almost have to Respect Elron occasionally because he comes from that like larger-than-life PT Barnum Huxer tradition that's so quintessentially American, you know, what's more American than PT Barnum? Like, you know what?   Jack Parsons reaches out to Crowley and says I'm your number one guy I want to be your number one agent in and you know Crowley from all accounts has a little bit of that Huxer in him too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and he loved Jack Apparently, I think that the that relationship ruined it Because when he saw he's like no, no, no, that's what you do to the other guy You don't believe in that stuff you get the other guy to believe and you take his girlfriend and his money and his boat And that's who that's the trick So I know I usually just have one clip in these shows But I think I might have to start doing more particularly when you got a guy like Phil Fairbanks Who is just willing to go a lot of places that not everybody's willing to go Culture is downstream of religion Religion shapes the culture which shapes the society which shapes the individual Even if it's just good for me and a few hundred million others on earth, I think it's worthwhile thing Until we understand some of that spiritual stuff until we're willing to go there because the first step We have to go is okay psychology is bullshit It's been engineered to promote a certain viewpoint and then we look at the political which is where you're willing to take us Is this a brown-stomping operation? Is it a human compromise operation? Yes, it is But then the third layer is is it evil in some way that we don't normally talk about? I almost hinted to that in the first chapter where I talk about like the Cleveland Street scandal and a Lewis Carroll the author of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Talk about Jay and Barry the author of Peter Pan Which sadly, you know for anybody who wasn't aware Sadly they are both most likely pedophiles So one of the topics Phil and I talked a bit about is MK Ultra and in particular How it rolls into Project Stargate and I returned to this topic a lot But I really think it's important to understand this history because it does seem to be under a rewrite And the interesting thing about Philip Fairbanks is he has been on the MK Ultra stuff Longer than anyone I can think of I mean like almost 20 years So the amount of information he's amassed the amount of documents that he has if you really drill into his work I mean he has documents and stuff that he's got for your request stuff that he's just found Squirreled away, so he's really a pro and it was great to talk to him about that even as Horrific as it is. It's something I think we have to face Canada's Mengele, you know is what they say Just like Gottlieb is Gottlieb is our Mengele, but yep as you've documented the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people are more than just the What's become the kind of cartoon trope? Oh, they gave them LSD at a party when they didn't know about it They were so bad. No, man They were chaining kids down in beds and not letting them move and sensory deprivation stuff and you know You're not allowed to admit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Breaking people and breaking people and intentionally breaking the enormous amount of people who would become famous later And whether it's guys like Ken Keezy and Leonard Cohen or whether it's guys like Charles Banson and Ted Kaczynski because all of them Famously had close ties with at least, you know, some element of MK The reason I bring up immediately Stargate just so people understand this you know all this stuff backwards and forwards I'm not telling you, but L. Ron Hubbard has start Scientology so he was whatever blended is of This kind of satanic spiritual occulted real connection with these extended realms And also his kind of pragmatic huxterism goal American huxterism. How can I rip everyone off?   Please share it. This is one that I really hope gets out there far and wide Stick around for my interview with Philip Fairbanks Welcome to Skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers and their critics I'm your host Alex Karrison today. We welcome Philip Fairbanks to Skeptico Phil is a writer researcher, he's the author of Pedogate primer the politics of pedophilia and he's also the author of the forthcoming deep state penetrating the veils of the unelected shadow government Phil it's awesome I've heard you on some great shows and then we recently saw each other on the Union of the unwanted podcast It was and you have some great great stuff. So it's great to have you on I'm super excited to talk about all this stuff at a kind of here. Yeah, yeah Great and and I like that, you know what my goal here or my plan is to kind of Dispense with the level one stuff, which I always call it and kind of jump into some of the deeper waters Oh, yeah So let's start right out, you know Like there's so much about your background. So I've heard a lot about your background living in LA You started writing at a very young age and all this stuff, right? But there's some other cool stuff about your background that I Don't even know where we're gonna go Tennessee and Protestant evangelical Exorcisms like I saw Did you see that? Yeah It was it was around the Halloween, you know, it was the spooky season and and I don't know I was thinking back to you know, I definitely got a lot of crazy stories in the past and that was That was definitely one of them like a genuine Protestant exorcism not everybody gets to experience one of those. So when I got the chance I made sure to take them up on the offer so I'm referring to an article blog post on Phil's website titled the Protestant exorcism a true story and Maybe you can tell a little bit about the story because it's kind of funny But also what that means about your your background, you know, I mean your kid You're going up. There's a lot of stuff Tennessee very interesting Interesting Tennessee is interesting. It's interesting from this paranormal standpoint, man. So go heads well for one thing and talking about the background and how it was raised it's kind of interesting it because I came from kind of a Somewhat strict kind of fundamentalist upbringing, you know homeschooled until fifth grade granddad was a southern Baptist preacher and you know and That definitely shaped a lot of you know who I am and whatnot then I'd say probably in my teens I started, you know You know, you kind of getting interested in some other things, especially a lot of the stuff that was considered taboo When I was growing up, you know, and and that would include like pretty much anything paranormal or or you know Anything to do with Psy or ESP or UFOs or any of that kind of stuff was all you know part of the the new age conspiracy because you know, I kind of grew up during the the satanic panic era where you know Heavy metal and and dungeons of dragons and and magic the gathering and all that kind of stuff You know Star Wars and Star Trek, you know And and to be fair, you know when I look back at a lot of that stuff now You know, I think it's silly to say that it's you know necessarily watching Star Trek the next generation isn't going to You know endanger your immortal soul But it is like when you look at it It's kind of you know, you in approved neoliberal programming Which you know, one of the things that we've been talking about in an email is is like the Stargate the CIA and military Stargate You know, Gene Roddenberry was connected to some of that weird stuff at SRI with a lot of these, you know old money-rich families and And and you know, a lot of them are really interested in UFOs and Psy, you know the Bronfins who were tied to nexium and all this kind of stuff But yeah, as far as the the exorcism story. Yeah, let me kind of pause you there for a sec Cuz oh, yeah, well, there's just some different pieces that you've laid out that I think I want to make sure people get You know is like this period where you're growing up in and kind of the strict you know Homeschooling Christian Fundamentalist kind of thing and then the rebellious teenager, you know, you're doing drugs out in the woods with your friends And yeah, yeah, and all that stuff and and that's a story that gets repeated over and over again and you know Yeah, yeah, one of the things we might explore and throw out here is to what extent Christianity plays into that because then we see the you know sin and redemption and the way Is I've seen other people, you know, like, you know, multiple people have a similar story where maybe they had a Christian Upbringing then goes through this rebellious period end up, you know experimenting with drugs and Crowley and Robert on 10 Anton Wilson and Leary and Lily and all this kind of stuff and then have kind of a, you know You know, excuse the pun here, but have a come to Jesus moment where it's like, you know Actually what I was looking for this, you know, this spirituality this connection. It was there all along and you know As for me, yeah, that's I don't know. It's like I kind of had a realization I think Philip K dick helped me a little bit with that the science fiction author who was also maybe schizophrenic and definitely in Gnostic, but like, you know, I was reading some of his stuff and Especially like it was like a speech he'd given and he was talking about Gnosticism and about how time is an illusion. It's all it's it sounds nutty, but at the same time it was like, okay metaphor or not this makes sense and Like it had that that crazy kooky psychedelic element to it But at the same time it was it's Christianity at the same time, you know, the the this, you know This ancient warfare between good and evil and cetera. So for me it kind of kind of dovetailed back I found an appreciated Christianity more the second time. Maybe I don't know if that makes sense I think I think a lot of people who, you know I've seen this a lot with people who were raised in a church and then kind of, you know It grows stale for them and then other people who aren't raised with religion and then they find it as an adult And it's just wow they let you on to it. It's this new thing, you know So I think I got kind of got a chance to experience that with my little prodigal trip Well, there's so much there and I can't resist kind of diving into the Christian thing because it's a big Thank for me lately, especially when we're gonna talk about cults and we're gonna talk about all these different ways of mind Control and stuff like that and I just I don't want to a priori leave Christianity off the table there because I think that's where it belongs I don't force anyone else to believe that but I think Historically, you know the historical accounts of Jesus Fall into the category of a Roman Psiop and I think the evidence of that It's highly dependent on Josephus and Josephus is clearly an agent for the Romans This is like the with with panthera and the idea that Mary was possibly there is that related to any no No, it's really related to just like do you know? We're gonna go off on a tangent here, but that's fine. Do you know who Josephus is? The historian. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So but Josephus is the guy. He's in Judea He's Jewish around the same time and yeah, and he's a general and This is most historians who are writing of this period are relying on the works of Josephus the works of Josephus they'll admit are flawed because Josephus is a proven liar.  Yeah, he claims to be the greatest Jewish, you know teacher and knower and have completed all the wisdom traditions of his Various three sects by the time he's 14 It just doesn't add up in a number of ways the things that he's saying sounds like Elron Hubbard's background I did everything by the time I was 14 and now I'm writing the book on it Yeah And it's so many people, you know James Randy also has that element, you know, they gave me a special They gave me a special pass at the library because I was so gifted and knowledgeable But that's a totally total other story the thing about Josephus and people is in the shell the time kind of get tired of me hammering on it But there's actually the quote that you can pull up and now I can't I'm not gonna pull up I always pull up the quote, but it's right out of Josephus's work And it is when Vespasian who is the Roman He's will become the Roman emperor and he's vying for that Roman Caesar kind of position And he uses Josephus he turns Josephus he comes and lands in Galilee and he defeats him in battle and what I suspect happens Contrary to the conventional conventional history is that Josephus and 40 men lock themselves in a care barricade themselves in a cave and they Commence with committing suicide in this kind of round robin fashion until it gets down to just Josephus and this other guy and then Wouldn't you know he has a revelation and he says you know what maybe we shouldn't do this and I'm going to turn myself in and the reason they had to do the wrong robin thing was because Jewish law said you can't kill yourself because he kills it again the Kind of classic kind of crazy. I got you. Yeah. Yeah, like very legalistic, but it's got to be just so yeah exactly so He goes to Vespasian and now He has this this is the conventional history, which is something that's so interesting to me about history How they can completely fly off in a different direction in terms of psychic pre cogniz pre cognitive Prophecy is okay at this part of history and then in other places, you know, they wouldn't do it But I digress again because what Josephus does he goes to Vespasian he goes I have a vision you are going to be Caesar And he goes what he goes. Yes.  This is the original Cyop, so then he becomes the historian The roman historian he writes this history but phil and again, this is like one of the most important stories that no one knows about He winds up writing war the jews Which becomes this kind of fundamental book for all christian scholars up to this point and in this book He actually says You know one of the things he's writing what he claims to be history And he's he's writing it. We can't read it with the with everything that we know now We have to read it as if it was at the time He was writing it because at the time he was writing it. He was trying to influence people He was trying to do an operation and what he says in his writing is You know what's wrong with these jews and he's a jew Is that they in their all their books? they had read that The messiah was going to come From the soil of israel And what they didn't realize is this bayesian was on the soil of israel when he became emperor so hey You laugh it because you didn't get it.    So what are we to make of jesus? That's the question that's the question as it relates to all this stuff That we're going to talk about it's as it relates to Satanism as it relates to west memphis 3, you know, right there and was west memphis arkansas, but You know, it's the kids walking around with the satanic Panic shirts on and the rock and roll bands and all that stuff and everyone going oh, that's just ridiculous And then people the christians saying no, that's satan and look right here in my bible How do we resolve those two extremes that We're gonna have to find some resolution for but if the historical jesus doesn't hold up and i would maintain I'm sorry for the long long story Historical jesus doesn't hold up What does hold up is christ consciousness that in some way we don't understand you can connect with some divinity And that may connect with or under you may understand it to be Jesus it may present itself to be jesus who cares the point is it's going to try and lead you towards the light And there's this other force. It's going to try and lead you towards the dark And it I think we need to sort that out a little bit better than we have been If we're really going to get to the bottom of this What what do i'm really jumping into the deep waters, but are you with me on this as far as the idea of you know Even religion as a whole being a sigh up to some extent I think that it's possible to be religious And to also agree that yes on the whole if you just take history You know just look at history and see it as it's shaped down down the millennia through eon to eon. Yes, absolutely religion and culture, you know Culture is downstream of religion, you know religion shapes the culture which shapes the society which shapes the individual and And as a result and I think there is something to religion Though I also believe that even if it's just good for me like one of the one of the questions in here You know, even if it's just good for me and a few hundred million others on earth I think it's worthwhile thing, you know, and and I also technically believe I think that religion can be good for you Regardless of the religion for the most part. I think that most religions have a lot of the same basic, you know morality and uh But at the same time, it's so easy to uh, you know, take religious belief and you know, uh subvert and pervert that and it that and it that's done over and over again. That's I I you know I I was raised in uh around organized religion, but now I'm not so much uh a fan. Um You know, even right down to the the council of nicaea, you know, I I don't know I don't know that if If if everything that's in the council of nicaea, you know, the the great con of 300 ad or 130 ad Or whatever it was I I don't know if that's absolutely vital I think honestly when it comes to like christianity per se, it's about the words in red Which is about, you know, forgiveness and love and a way to live your life Uh, you know, because you know everything that came before that, you know, and if and it's not not just christianity You just the same thing happens with hinduism to buddhism And you know, you can even have judaism then branches into christianity and then islam as well But like it's it's the same basic morality in the the 1.0 version is often a little harsher Because it came about thousands of years earlier when you had to beat somebody over the head With a club to get them to understand.  You don't kill people You don't steal don't take your neighbor's wife, you know, just this basic morality stuff that most everybody agrees on But yeah, then when the second the the 2.0 versions come along, you know, you got christianity islam buddhism, I think I think there was uh There's something in all of them that kind of refines what came before Because what came before are really necessary like foundational rules or whatever and a lot of stuff that was probably You know a lot of the leviticus stuff and a lot of the stuff that you find in like hinduism or whatever I think a lot of that was situational stuff like, you know, it was a good idea at the time and place to do this And then it just became written in stone, right? Uh, but it's the words in red, which is you know, because that the idea for me is that religion the reason why it's so easy to subvert and pervert, you know Is because it's it's so vital and it's it's the battle between good and evil So it's easy to get people wound up over that kind of thinking and you know, uh Politics, you know, I forgot who said it, but you know that have politics and religion Kind of like christianity and rock music, you know, like They should pretty much stick to their own sphere because whenever they try to mix They ruin each other. So yeah, I I think that uh, you know, the the basic essence of christianity is what's important and but unfortunately, yeah, like Absolutely, I've seen, you know, uh christianity, especially in the last in the last 2000 years. It's it's For for most the last 2000 years. It's been one of the most important factors guiding western culture And civilization like just in the last couple thousand years and it's on the wane, I'd say like absolutely You know, like I said, it really does it comes down to the words in red. That's the important stuff the rest of it. It's you know, uh Like there's a hundred thousand rules in every religion But I think, you know, if if you lose the message, that's to me like, you know, what makes Jesus so important is like he came he came along basically pointing out like no, you can follow all the rules But the rules are just pointing towards kind of like the the bruce lee quote about the finger in the moon, you know Uh, uh, you don't look at the finger or you miss all the uh, heavenly glory The the rules or the finger pointing towards goodness and Righteousness whatever you want to call it spirituality, whatever, uh, however you would put that But here's the thing I I think we're going to return to That topic again and again because I think it relates back to this Story that you wrote which is excellent back about your past and about exorcism and about What that means, but I think it also relates in some important ways to your work The book that you're probably best known for Pedigate primer the politics of pedophilia. You've done some excellent interviews on this and the the reason I went in that long what sounds like a tangent is What we're trying to understand here Is something beyond the politics of pedophilia So I commend you for even taking it there because you know, if we look at it from a psychology standpoint where they've trying to take this with the false memory syndrome and and it's not just that Weird organization that very very dark organization that you've uncovered, but it's academia and modern Psychology and psychiatry which is behind that whole thing which would say don't don't push these people You give me a new term the other day minor attracted persons They're nap. Yeah, they're not criminals who are committing sex crimes against children raping children No, no, no, they're minor attracted people We're gonna put them in as another letter in our alphabet soup here My point is until we understand some of that spiritual stuff until we're willing to go there because the first step We have to go is okay psychology is bullshit It's been engineered to promote a certain viewpoint and then we look at the political Which is where you're willing to take us. Is this a brown storming operation? Is it a human compromise operation? Yes, it is. But then the third layer is Is it evil in some way that we don't normally talk about so I'd laid a lot out there But tell me what you think I I almost hint to that in I guess in the first chapter where I talk about like the cleveland street scandal And I talk a little bit about you know, lewis carroll Charles lupwich dodson better known as lewis carroll the author of alice's adventures in wonderland and Talk about jay and berry the author of peter pan Which sadly, you know for anybody who wasn't aware Sadly, they are both most likely pedophiles that really sucks You know like literally one of my favorite children's authors is lewis carroll and you know Now there's no evidence that they physically You know sexually abused any children ever though they did you know It wasn't even an odd thing at the time and you know the weird repressed victorian era For whatever reason you you know, you couldn't show the legs on a chair But having you know an 11 year old girl Nude and taking pictures ever from every angle that was okay for some reason But yeah, I believe that this is something that goes back further than the cleveland street scandal. I do believe that You know, uh, I was talking to somebody who shared with me, uh, the hunter s thompson the the opening to His collection of essays. Hey rube where he's talking about how old human sacrifice and child sacrifices and how it's there's always been a lot of that that goes around in autumn and winter months, you know, and I think part of that probably goes back to the idea that especially in the you know, the uh, the the northern hemisphere and the western hemisphere, you know, uh When all the trees died People you know ancient people freaked out and they were they were scared that if they didn't do certain things, um, You know, the the lights would never come back on the heat would never come back on the trees wouldn't bear fruit anymore and you know, uh all over the world all these different cultures, uh, would sometimes do human sacrifice sometimes child sacrifice And a lot of this stuff was done in secret in these cult, you know, uh mystery religions or cults and a lot of uh, the you know, modern secret societies, you know, the the the whole of like You know 16th to 20th and 21st century secret societies Is the story of a group saying hey, you know the original mystery school or secret religion That was us too, you know, and whether they're actually connected. They always have like, you know, this this long, uh, you know, kind of, uh, you know Uh, uh, you know history of, you know, they're they're pedigree or whatever Um, and and yeah, whether or not they're, um, you know, just picking up elements and I think that in a lot of cases Uh, like a lot of people who are members of the skull and bones or whatever, um Like yeah, I believe that it's tied to a you know, I guess a luciferian philosophy Which, you know, this is the same kind of thing you get in some some of the upper degrees of freemasonry But at the same time, you know I think that a lot of the people who are members of these secret societies aren't what you would call true believers And then a lot of the true believers aren't members of x y and z secret society or cult But yeah, I do believe that there's, you know, uh, some kind of, you know Dark traditions that for whatever reasons, uh, you know, I like the Fraternity hazing rituals, you know, that's that's a form of trauma based mind control basically I mean, that's literally what it is. Like it's the same kind of thing that goes on in basic training, you know, you, uh, you, uh, had you abuse and break down and rebuild and re-sculpt the psyche That's the the whole purpose of basic training and the third degree of freemasonry and, you know, uh Fraternity hazing all of it is along the same lines Uh, and and yeah, I do believe that some of that comes from like, uh, I guess you could call it kind of like an ancient technology right down to, you know And I also think that uh art and literature and a lot of times even the genre genre stuff, you know, like, uh Whether it's, you know, Kurt von Getter, Philip K. Dick or, uh, you know Lovecraft, I think a lot of times these guys Hoismans, you know, I mentioned him in the book I think a lot of times these guys did kind of encode some things into their fiction Because they couldn't speak plainly about it Uh, and you know, like Lovecraft is constantly talking about all these cults and things, uh What a lot of people don't realize is that When Lovecraft was briefly married to Sonia Green, she was part of the Crowley circle She was an acolyte, you know, so when when when Lovecraft is talking about there's these crazy people And they want to bring monsters through a hole in the universe like that sounds crazy But that's kind of what Crowley was doing when he was going to Giza in the middle of the night in Egypt and like which Once again, uh, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence that it's some of these old money families who were tied to some of these secret societies Who funded sri and their field trip to Giza, you know when when they were doing the the remote viewing stuff that they also you know, uh did you know did some kind of I I don't know. I I don't think ritual is the type the right type of word Even though like everything I've heard about like remote viewing and that's the subject I've been somewhat interested in for You know a couple of decades now a little over a couple of decades now um It's it's a protocol But what's a protocol other than a ritual of sorts, you know A ritual when people's when you hear ritual you think, you know, a cult ritual or a religious ritual But no, I mean like, you know, uh I have a ritual of having a cup of coffee after I wake up in the morning It's it's something that I always do. It's something that gets me into a space of mind It's something that that if I don't do it, I'll feel off You know, so yeah, I do believe that, you know, some of the the the rights of elusives, for instance The Dionysian rights which are tied with the birth of you know The the birth of drama the you know, like Talk about psyops the the Greek festivals of of Dionysus and elusis were were grand public spectacles and in essence A form of psyop I don't know. I don't know if psyops the right word for it because like I think You know, uh, what whether that was what always occurred or not I think that it was meant as a kind of a positive thing Uh and for social cohesion and all this kind of thing, but at the same time Like that's that's what they're doing at Bohemian Grove too That's what they tell themselves to sleep at night too. So, you know, I don't know But yeah, I definitely believe that uh, like you said, there's there's definitely a layer belong beyond politics So when you mentioned psychology, you know, uh, you you and Cameron for instance, you know I mentioned him in the mk ultra chapter the guy that did the psychic driving experiments and you know, the the As as recently as a couple of years ago, there are still, you know, they're having to sue the institutions now, you know, the uh, the hospitals and the And and the universities, uh, but there are still class action lawsuits going on Based on the the victims of you and Cameron who went on to become the head of the world psychiatric association the american psychiatric association The canadian psychiatric association, you know, you mentioned the false memory syndrome foundation Elizabeth loft is his name comes up in the hoffman report Which is related to the role that you know, some psychologists played and potential ethical violations in guantanamo bay um So, you know And I do believe that on some level A lot of this stuff it really is, you know, it's like a web. It is kind of all connected You've got to be careful when you connect the dots though because I think that a lot Um, you know, this is something we were talking about too, uh in correspondence.  Um, you know, I think you got to be really careful. Um What what you spread, you know, like as for me I'm a bottom feeder like start with with the most far out conspiracy stuff Because that's where I'll find something new. Keep checking it. Check it. Check it against other sources.  They gave them lsd at a party when they didn't know about it Oh, they were so bad No, man, they were chaining kids down in beds and not letting them move in sensory Deprivation stuff and you know, you're not allowed to admit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah And breaking people and breaking people and intentionally breaking the enormous amount of people who would become famous later And whether it's guys like ken keezy and lennard cohen or whether it's guys like charles banson And ted kaczynski because all of them Famously had close ties with at least, you know Some element of mk in in the case of charles manson. We can't directly tie him But I do believe like we know that he and the family Hung out in hate ashbury. We know that dr. Morris jolly and west also had the the free clinic at hate ashbury You know, I I recently got some Papers released from the the library special collections at ucla on dr. Jolly by the way In one of them. It's the the cult awareness network Folder one of the cult awareness network folders that I got and You know, it's a fundraising letter and dr. Jolly says something along the lines of oh, I've worked for years with the counterculture And civil rights movement. Oh really dr. Jolly. Let's hear about your work with the counterculture and civil rights I would love to hear your work with the counterculture and the civil rights movement Uh, so I don't think we can leave that without you telling a little bit of the story behind Dr. Jolly because it's just critical information if people don't know it But let's keep it short because I also want you to I also want you to tell the story if people don't know it About the cult awareness network. Oh, that's that's that was what that was one of the coolest things about this folder But yeah, so dr. Jolly, uh, you know brief thumbnail sketch This is a guy that always shows up, you know, whether uh jack ruby, uh, is is Like before he dies of cancer He starts talking about how people are giving him strange injections and he thinks they're trying to kill him And then he talks to dr. Jolly and he's cured of those delusions. Just like psychiatrists, right? trained trained psychiatrists or UCLA neuro psychiatrists UCLA Like once again, you know, he's he's got the credentials just like dr. Cameron and and I think in a lot of these cases they're propped up by the cia and and these families that the cia does Does a lot of the bidding of you know, whether it's the uh, you know, the macy's and the melons and the rocker fellers And it's all these families and these foundations over and over and over again But yeah, dr. Jolly shows up with jack ruby and mcbay and Charles manson just over and over and over again Also in multiple cases during the satanic panic of uh, you know Of child abuse daycare scandals that were uh, you know the the media then Started calling all that stuff, you know a moral panic and that it was all just So they're gonna have to go off and read the rest of yourself and listen to your stuff to find out more about jolly But yeah, like if you can't if you can't pick up the trail now if you're like, no give me more Forget it. You're lost. You'll never get through this stuff for real That is a huge thing. We're gonna talk about it. But I think what I just said fits into the cult awareness network What's the cult awareness? Yeah. Yeah the the cult awareness network started out. It was uh, basically sort of uh, You know, I don't know, uh across between like a think tank and a lobbyist group and also an activist group Uh and a nonprofit charity, right? Uh, but it also had as member Dr. Morris jolly and west who also jones burrow, you know, like when jones burrow happened He was called up there like, you know, he'd he'd been called in Uh on multiple cases regarding cults. That was one of his specialties apparently um and you know The cult awareness network, but who comes to who comes to own the cult awareness network The the folder I've got it like starts around 1992 So it's like right around the takeover the Scientologists Scientologists they had all these like, you know, multiple lawsuits You know, it's the same kind of thing that they did to the irs Uh where they literally had people infiltrating their offices and stealing things and you know Pretending to be a member of the group and then saying things to make them look bad and like by the way That's classic cia tactics, you know, like classic cia Just to make sure we don't bury the lead here Phil the cult awareness network is somewhat of an organic genuine Organization that is a call center if you will people are calling in and saying, oh my gosh I think I'm in a cult. What should I do and they're giving good information out And then all of a sudden they and it turns right It turns out a lot of people who are calling in are saying hey the cult that I'm involved with are these Scientologists So what happens is the Scientologists buy the cult awareness network They buy the phone numbers they buy the phone bank and now the calls come in and they're answering them They go, uh-huh Tell me about your problem. And then it's like, uh, you know, it's like a simpsons episode now They're routed back into the you know the the machine of the things And and as you said this infiltrate co-op is like Playbook, you know blocking and tackling for the cia I didn't know that then jolly was one of he was probably then one of the earliest Infiltrators, huh that was kind of sending I think so maybe yeah, and and I don't know if Scientology uh, you know One of the few things that I agree with Scientology About elrond hubbard's history. I do believe that he probably worked with intel a bit I I believe that he had some involvement with intel because there are too many like like I said, it's this is Oss and early cia 50s and 60s Cold war shenanigans style Shakedown like just every every bit of it is it it sounds like And a lot of that stuff wasn't like I you know, I know because I read these declassified documents They weren't declassified in 1952 to 256 when Scientology and Dianetics are being formed and founded, you know Like they're they just the uh, I don't know if it's parallel construction or what but yeah I do believe that Scientology may have started out as uh, and you know, not just Scientology, but uh, Dr. Ruth wangeran, uh Also thinks the children of god might be the cia the bahai You know the iranians think that the bahai are infiltrated with uh with cia You know and the the thing about religion, you know and religious freedom Uh Is it's kind of a double-edged sword there that you know as soon as you You know have this agreement to well, you know, yeah, we should allow people their religious freedom and expression Uh and then Scientology comes along and it's like well, I'm not a religion But I'm going to say that I am so that I get all the benefits of religion which include, you know Stuff like secrecy and different levels and hierarchy and not questioning the people at the top of the pyramid and all this kind of Uh stuff that is very, you know kind of cultic We have all these different levels That are like bracketed realities and we have to kind of jump between one and the next in my opinion But take el ron harvard the only way to Understand el ron harvard in my opinion and first and foremost as a kind of grifter kind of guy I mean he's a he's a scammer and he's very good at it And he's good at scamming people's money and he's moves in with jack parson's and the next thing, you know He's fucking jack parson's girlfriend.  Yeah, and and and you know so anyone who wants to reflect on that Can say i know people like that i know people And both sense if whether you're the one being victimized or whether Unfortunately, you're the one who victimizes other people You know people who can con people and the con doesn't stop like you're saying with with el ron, you know He don't only gets the girl then he says yeah, you know this strange boat deal Like we're gonna go to miami and buy a boat and then sail it back here to california and we'll make a lot of money And we'll split it all's we need you to do Put up all the money and give us a free boat to get the other boat with like what? So that's and that's literally after but this is with marjorie marjorie cameron the his x like he's already like Uh, exactly the bit straight out of the like tom Sawyer Like i almost have to respect el ron Occasionally because he comes from that like larger than live p.t. Barnum Uh huckster tradition that's so quintessentially american, you know, what's more american than p.t. Barnum like you know what?    It's it's just It's mind-blowing levels of uh, uh, you know, that that's mind control by the way, you know Well, well it is mind control is like creating a perfect zombie or something like that Like you said with different levels, there's so many different, you know Advertising and pr are methods of mind control for that matter Yeah, well all communication is you know methods of mind control all hypno We're all being hypnotized By ourselves, but we're being hypnotized and influenced by other people But I don't want to go down that That hole too far because you you kind of threw some other stuff on the table You actually jump to the next bracketed reality beyond that which is the spiritual So when he does go out and perform these rites and rituals under the direction of Crowley right because crowley is in communication with jack parson's jack parson's reaches out to Crowley and says i'm your number one guy. I want to be your number one agent in and uh, you know Crowley from all accounts has a little bit of that hookster in him too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and and he loved jack apparently I think that the that relationship ruined it Uh, because when he saw he's like no, no, no, that's what you do to the other guy You don't you don't believe in that stuff You get the other guy to believe and you take his girlfriend and his money and his boat and that's That's the trick Like and then you say abracadabra and you know or our rarita or whatever Uh, and and call it a day.  Yeah So but we're we're kind of dancing around this other aspect to it. Well, there's two other aspects One is the cia kind of big game Stuff somebody's got to run the rule world and it ought to be us and His connections elrond hubbard's connections there are undeniable as you said and he kind of wraps himself in this kind of quasi military Maybe kind of stuff and we can get into all that but then the other part that I keep kind of dancing around I can't pin down is And you're not saying this but I think it's a misstep that a lot of people take to say Oh, okay, then it's all fake. No, that doesn't mean that it's fake It doesn't mean that they were not attempting to or successfully connecting with Spirits for lack of a better term in this extended realm that are becoming their partners in Paging in this and have some ability to influence World events and things down here are definitely to influence people They're calling the star child or moon child or whatever out in the desert And this is the same desert right around where they're testing the the atomic bomb, you know And it's also the same little spot of land where over the next like five years the majority of the Uh, you know UFO sightings would be right in this same Let's not go there because I I don't think you got the UFO thing right I don't think you've you put all the the pieces on the on the table I mean if we want to jump there now we can but I kind of think we got to finish the uh stargate thing because Oh, yeah, yeah, what happens here? Super interesting and uh, gosh Like the reason I bring up immediately stargate just so people understand this You know all this stuff backwards and forwards. I'm not telling you but L Ron Hubbard has start Scientology so you whatever blended is of This kind of satanic spiritual occulted real connection with these extended realms And also his kind of pragmatic hucksterism goal American hucksterism. How can I rip everyone off?  You want to go live? We don't care.  You just want me to keep those motherfuckers from coming through your front door And I know that and I've lived that over and over again So don't tell me how all moralistic and christian you are because I know at the end of the day It's about protection and it's about keeping the bad guys from coming over that hill Military has that ingrained in them at a kind of core level that we don't get because we haven't been in the military, but Military intelligence then takes that and extends that and says oh, okay. That means I can do whatever I want because at the end of the day I have the ultimate trump card so L. Ron Hubbard is connected with that and that L. Ron Hubbard gets connected with this sri remote viewing project in In at stanford stanford, you know great university and these two laser physicists Who the laser part of it is kind of interesting probably has an et connection there, but They all these guys not all of them, but a lot of these guys that are doing sri are in Scientology the top three guys. Yeah, uh, you know pat price in goes swan Oh, i'm blanking on the third name, but like the top three got the top three guys and in fact, uh after pat died I guess I believe it was just like the the two guys were the core of like they were they were running the lab at sri The crazy thing about well, well hell put off hell put off is uh, yeah, put off right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah Uh, the crazy part about this is around like okay, 1978 the ford mead maryland and the defense intelligence agency picks up stargate as like a military project And this is around the same time that operation snow white is going on where Scientologists have infiltrated, uh the irs and law firms And like all these various, you know levels of government And they're leaking documents, you know, apparently I think it was john attack who wrote that, uh, the the reason why they were leaking the documents was In mainly just to cover their tracks Because if they just stole Scientology documents, then it would be easy to figure out Who stole who's stealing the irs documents about Scientology's tax debt, you know This Scientology is no, but if you steal like, you know all this interesting stuff and leak some of it to the press And you know, meanwhile, you're also like in in the senator's office There you're a janitor cleaning up at the irs at like literally there were It was the largest domestic spying operation in the united states that we know of and around the same time as that's going on Scientologists are running the cia CIA lab at sri I don't think that's Like you said and this is like a whole point we could get off on and about being careful about connecting the dots Because there's a lot of different ways to connect the dots and sometimes they come up with different Images once you connect them and moreover The connecting the dots Involves people and people are complicated So here's a guy recently interviewed and I really enjoyed talking with him nick cook So nick cook just wrote a biography about ingo swan and he met ingo swan on several occasions And he also has close connection with the family.  I love ed operament, but he's a you know tent revival christian kind of that's his His has locked into that worldview and it weegee boards and weegee boards like what about weegee board Weegee boards suggest that there's some ability to connect with this extended realm in some way Well start nailing down what that means what that extended realm is who is in that extended realm How are they interacting just don't paint it with this sunday school christianity? Oh, there's state and then there's jesus and jesus loves me all You just got to start with terraformer You got to go all the way down and get to the ground if we don't know what that is back to ingo swan Ingo swan is psychic I don't know why some people are psychic But some people are just gifted in that way. They can read minds. They can remote view things So they don't call it remote viewing, but they can see things that aren't in their immediate view The cia backed what we're saying be the being the cia says Need to talk to that guy So they bring in goes swan out and they say Here's what we want to do The russians got this submarine base over there Do you think you could like see that submarine base from here in palo alto? ningo says well Let me give it a try they go. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Okay. You think you might be able to do it I'll tell you what before you give it a try Right down the road here. We got this super secret Livermore labs this super secret thing buried. We're not going to tell you what it is But it's buried in six feet of cement and inside that six feet of cement is a faraday cage And inside that faraday cage is something else and no one can do it and Can you get in there? Can you see it? Can you?  I tell you what do you think you could train other people to do what you do And he says yeah, I could I mean everybody has a little bit of this gift and here's how to do it and he develops A training class a protocol and that's what becomes Remote viewing so to read that story differently. I mean i'm open to that's my interpretation of the story of course But if you're going to change that story Tell me the the the factual pieces that change that story. That's what I love about your work I mean you have the factual pieces there and you're laying down the story And i'm going to add one other part to that in this kind of sharing that we're doing here The other super interesting guy in that to me is and I've told this story before on the show So it might get boring to some people but is uh, joe mcmonichle And and you've heard of joe mcmonichle.  He's having lunch dinner, whatever And he starts grabbing his throat Just like in a movie. He's being poisoned He immediately tries to leave out leave the restaurant He staggers and falls a cup of his intelligence buddies come and grab him and they put him in a jeep at this point mcmonichle dies If you don't know about near-death experience science, you might go Well, he didn't die because he came back. No, he died. That's what we call it. That's what medicine calls it After your heart stops beating for a couple minutes and there's no blood to your brain We call that death and we might Hypothesize about how that's not really death, but then that raises a bunch of questions about what is this extended realm in our realm? That is death. That's what we've always called it to be death Joe now though back to our story Is outside of his body Looking down at the jeep as it drives frantically through the east german west german border trying to find a hospital And they call ahead and they get an ambulance and they transfer them to an ambulance and he gets in the hospital and they're able to save him Joe mcmonichle Wakes from his and he has I should say not only this ability to See outside of his body, but he has a near-death experience. He goes and he encounters the divine He encounters the greater consciousness that doesn't care about this gain and all this nonsense He's relieved from all that and isn't in the infinite love realm that so many near-death Experiencers talk about he meets god for lack of a better term but When he awakens back in this realm the first thing he sees Our two military intelligence officers just say hey, buddy.  What's going on? Right in his face. They want to quote unquote debrief him on what happened both his poisoning and You know everything else and he tells him tells him about being outside of his body and he tells them all rest that stuff and then He goes on with his military career until He shows up at sri because he's ordered to go and check these guys out And lo and behold, I don't know if it's rustle targ or how put off But they unseal his secret sealed military file and they pull out a book And the book is Raymond moody's book a near-death experience And the important thing to me there and this is like classic phil fairbanks putting together the pieces They knew that there was something about near-death experience about being in that extended realm that also connected with the Crazy stuff they were doing with remote viewing And ingo swan and outside of spacetime. And how do we see russian subs? From palo alto, they didn't know exactly how it all worked But they did know at some and some level that this extended consciousness realm of near-death experience was somehow related to that So long story, but that is my terra firma on Stargate and remote viewing it is all the other things that you say like you or I don't think you are Incorrect at all and like these guys say here's another interesting tieback to your work And again folks when we're talking to phil fairbanks We're talking to a guy who wrote the story was in a paranoia magazine Yeah, mk ultra on mk ultra in like 2003 or 2004 ish. Yeah 2003 think about that. That's almost 20 years ago. He's Discooping the the muck and laying out the dirt on mk ultra unbelievable I mean that is a foundational kind of investigative research that You know, he's never going to get any credit for it because that's Nobody wants to know. Yeah You know, you know, there's a lot of ties between the stargate and mk ultra as well Not least of which being pure itch But also frank olsen. Sydney godlib. Sydney godlib.  Uh, but yeah, there's no like a lot of ties between the the sri and mk ultra and pure itch and godlib and olsen and all this kind of stuff Like a lot of this stuff. It ties back and forth and and I think part of that, you know, I I keep going back to You know, it's it's these foundations Uh run by old money families who you know, uh, I I like to point out that like the cia Uh The cia is is, you know grew out of the oss Which was basically a bunch of skull and bones men who once again old money types prescott bush for instance and Billy russell and a lot of these folks um They were already rich and then they doubled their wealth in the opium wars You know, so this this is this is like these these old money families who uh were involved in the opium wars And then we're selling heroin through the emerald triangle in indochina and vietnam and then afghanistan and you know So that's like that that that's another part of the story that I think, uh, you know, eventually eventually like I said, uh, the the the foundations and uh I guess you call them oligarch families or whatever. I hear you and sometimes I think that's true But sometimes I read those biographies and it sounds just like when we broke down l ron hubbard and you go No, I know that guy. He's just a he's just a huckster and when you read about uh bush old man bush I understand prescott bush. He is not an insider. He is not an elite He doesn't have the money what he sees is a way to get in with this The these guys who do have the money and maybe that'll get me the money And maybe I can make my kids rich, which he does and all the rest of that stuff But yeah, I look at prescott bush and I understand prescott bush.  You can read thousands of them. You can search through the near-death near-death Research foundation jeff long's website where he has thousands of them chronicled new york times best-selling author And a doctor physician all these carefully compiled surveys There's no malak There's no Satanic none of that when these people encounter god encounter the light walk into that There's none of that nonsense.  Why is that it's because They only marry their cousins, you know, I that I don't know it makes no sense to me at all Uh, but I believe we're not some reason for it You know, like well the reason for it is that they believe it to be true You know, so and and this was why I kind of hammered so hard on the christian thing It's like there's millions of people hundreds and hundreds of generations who have found inspiration from The the life of jesus Well, does it matter that that life isn't historically accurate in some respects? It does and in some other respects it doesn't because our connection to This spiritual realm is Misunderstood by us because it has to be we are not in a position.  She wants to go for her walk She she is incredibly empathetic on a number of levels And it probably can process information You know can smell things all this but on another cognitive level. She just cannot process things the same way that I can This is what people tell us about being in the extended realm all the time They say I knew the answers to everything and then when I came back here, I didn't have them anymore So does it surprise me that people can follow some Really being influenced into following some really sick stupid Thing of there's this bloodline and we all have to have this family and stuff like that because genealogically, right? Sometimes we have these royals in this bloodline and then you find out There's a little thing going on in the back and that guy that kid wasn't exactly, you know, this and that Well, hey, he was up until a minute ago. He was a part of the bloodline and the whole thing It's it to me it fits much more into that kind of scenario of a human created a human idea then it does this The deep reality of Royals or bloodlines or any of the rest of human invention, I think Oh, yeah, yeah, uh, you know, I would agree with you there, uh But but at the same time, I think that there's some part of humanity that apparently kind of craves it Because otherwise why would you know, it's it's one of those things, um You know like the Trans personal it's a trans personal experiences. I guess, uh, charles part would put it because it's like the idea there's, uh, you know, there's certain things that show up in in every culture and like, you know, uh that the these basic archetypes that you know, they're going to be Shaded and colored a little bit differently based on The individual and the society and the culture that That the individuals brought up in but apart from that there are certain things and Apparently having, you know, one family that keeps ruling everything. That's that's something that shows up like You know just going back thousands of years ago when the people over here and people over there never could have You know, never could have met they weren't able to compare notes but this kind of tribalism and fiefdoms and and kingships and By the way, I'm not saying that that's as it should be or or that we shouldn't struggle against that I think that a lot of what maybe is inherent in human nature It's not necessarily a good thing like if if all of human nature was inherently good Then we wouldn't have the world that we live in, you know with with uh, like extreme injustice and inequality and all this kind of stuff But then on the other on the other hand like I think that there's like some part of it Like I you know, uh, I think that there's there's some kind of an explanation for it But once again, I think it's you know, probably archetypal and metaphorical for the most part That's that's one of the reasons why, you know, whether it's Religion mythology folklore or whatever, you know, I think that there are some things that You can't speak plainly about and that's where poetry and art and religion, you know They sometimes fare better than a simple equation. Why do you keep throwing religion in there? Why isn't religion better understood as a mind control social engineering project same way that you said That the intelligence organizations, it doesn't take long to build the playbook You start finding certain things that work trauma works, you know group love group community There are need to be a pack, you know, these things work Well, why why doesn't that just explain religion in a way because I'm with you on poetry and art and Transcendent experiences that we have that can do that and I believe that you can attach a transcendent experience to religion But to me the idea that I'm going to put together a book and become your spiritual intermediary And tell you that you cannot understand your experiences unless you come through me That just sounds like good old-fashioned, you know, hoax them to me my and beyond hoax them It sounds like In coercion and ability to control people in order to gain an advantage I could see why you would think that and I completely get why some people are turned off of religion and especially Especially like for instance Christianity and and I certainly wouldn't try and pretend that A mass of evils hadn't been done in the name of Christianity In fact, the majority maybe even of what's been done in the name of organized religion Most of it's not good stuff like I I'll go ahead and can see that right there, but like, you know, it's Whether you want to call it religion or whatever But when caveman first like found some kind of mushroom And then all of a sudden felt like putting some berry juice on some walls and next thing, you know There's art there and I believe that art and communication and language I believe that they were all kind of tied together and like the word religion itself, you know, re legare to bind back together again I think that's what religion should be um Then again, like I said as far as organized religion. Yeah, in in most cases organized religion subverts that natural desire for you know, like you said transcendence and in connection with the divine or internal or or some higher level which, you know Even kurt girdle show showed us that even math is incomplete, you know Even our number system like there there are some inconsistencies and then you have to go to a higher level And then that one's going to have inconsistencies and it's just, you know, infinite regression from there I know i'm kind of hammering on the religion thing, but I can't I can't let go without this story So i'm interviewing this guy Juergen Ziva unbelievably fantastic I love this guy one of the most gifted out of body experience travelers if you will he's written this book multi-dimensional man And he's just has this ability to leave his body and enter into these extended realms in a very very Amazing way that he can bring back this information.  You know, you can only go like to the The gift shop kind of thing Lo and behold one of the priests leans over and sees jurgen Come on in come on in come on in Gives him this special kind of treatment There's something going on here, right?  I don't know Jurgen says it was an unbelievable ecstatic experience Tears were dripping down my face. I felt in my heart the love of god just burst through me And I was like shaken to my knees And the guy quick quick quick quick quick pulls the chandelier up and it's dark again And he goes, oh my god. That was such an incredible experience, you know, da da da So he comes back the next day Jurgen does he wants to see this guy He wants to kind of rehab that experience and just kind of understand it at a deeper level And he says, hey, you know, I want to go see father philip or whatever the guy's name is And he goes, uh, what are you talking about? No, no, no, you can't get in here And then suddenly father philip comes in he goes, oh, no, that's my buddy and he lets him in he goes You know, I was thinking about that experience. I want to know I he goes, okay, I'll take you to another room So he takes him to another room same thing completely dark lowers the candles Again, he has this ecstatic experience this connection with christ consciousness this connection with the love of god It is complete it is All-consuming outside of space and time But the question that I asked Jurgen is So are you a christian? He kind of chuckles east austrian germany goes Well, no, I'm not a christian And his answer is kind of like I've had these experiences You know a good part of my life and it's incredible that I had him from this icon and this icon was able to initiate that inside of me But I don't understand that to mean that I should follow all the other stuff That they believe there's a direct spirit out there that is god that I'm way way paraphrasing for Jurgen, but you get the point and That's I guess where I come down on religion religion is an Unnecessary intermediary between you and your relationship with god, but to attach it to the icon is It might be useful because the icon might help You have that transpersonal experience But back to what you're saying by buddha pointing to the moon. It's it's just a finger point the bible the red Yeah, yeah, yeah, the red words he's caught up on the well even the red words aren't you trapped? Yeah, and the red words aren't the red words. They're just your red words They're just your interpretation of they're not the red words. They're just red words in a book As for me, I guess as for like the red words No, I I mean more so like, you know, just the the pared down message love tolerance forgiveness You know Which once again, like I said, you know the everything else, you know distill it down to the essentials I think that's you know, that's like everybody, uh, everybody's clamoring for a revolution I hope they realize that until people have a revolution within themselves Then it's not going to change out here Because the way the the way the world is and the reason why it's the way it is is because of the way the people are Because, you know, we've been, you know, creating culture for thousands of years And so now we're uh born into this world with thousands of years of of cultures and culture clashes basically the idea though of Love and forgiveness and what you know, I I I definitely believe that's you know It's it's it's key to just living a good life until until you you know, change yourself from from within and Uh can be more loving and kind and you know Then then all the other things all the other work. It's not going to be as uh, uh productive as it could be or should be maybe Okay, I'm gonna pull you in a different direction. I know I'm raking you over the coals here, but That's what we do on skeptico the et thing Why aren't you down with the et thing? Let me play a little clip From I think a really great movie not a perfect movie, but a great movie the phenomenon And and then we'll talk about it Cases that are not explainable in conventional terms That have been made by credible observers of relatively incredible things When you got right up to it it lit up. Was this a warning? What's this attempt to communicate? felt scared I was running and playing and then I saw this maroon color in the sky It was not anything from this earth. He was looking at all of us Okay, I might stop there.  Hey There's ufos up here. What do we do? So this is in the record Like this is the military has records of this and this has come out because these guys have disclosed it And then they said well gosh, I don't know and then the ufos fly over each one of the silos They shoot down a red beam and they disable the nukes one by one and each one of these by our best technology Our best computers of the 1960s 70s, whatever they are these things are completely independent That's the idea.  They're all out It's like no, this is impossible to do So there is an intelligence that flies around in these nuts and bolts crafts and shoots down this beam And this intelligence has the ability to understand our most advanced technology and disable it Now in russia in the ukraine after the wall falls and we goes in there and they go, oh, you know what same thing happened to us But they turned them on The nukes flew over our silos and one by one They turned them on and we were panicking We were like these things are going to go off and the world is going to end because we're going to be destroyed And then the ufo shut them down one by one So when people are not like I say ufo friendly and et friendly because some people strangely enough Will acknowledge ufos, but will not acknowledge et It I don't know here. We have the intel so we have the nuts and bolts here We have intelligence. We have technology and we have some kind of message which gets us into the good et bad et thing so What's that you feel I'm I'm not certain I kind of like once again the the idea that A lot of these things that we're hearing about all through history You know Ezekiel talks about flying saucers, you know, there's uh, there's whirling fires in the sky and you know, I think that Since we're in a post industrial society That's why we're seeing them as aliens And in flying saucers hold on gotta jump in there It doesn't wash in the sense that If we are going to have this discussion if we are in this consensus reality speaking around the world you're in the philippines I'm in southern california.  So I think we just have to Put a zikule to the side for a minute and say this is what happened here This is our nuts and bolts reality And then we have to try and make sense of that inside of this reality before we start jumping off into some other You know kind of right well what i'm saying though what we're experienced as you know, uh There's the duatha did danaan in the the the the Celtic idea or the Anunnaki for the Sumerians, but there's you know this idea that once again, it's uh, it's people who never met each other had an idea of you know, there were these these brilliantly talented People or the idea of uh, you know the the Nephilim those who came from above, you know That the word Elohim is is plural by the way meaning they who come from above I think that there's a possibility that There can be different different explanations for different uh phenomenon and experiences But uh, I think there's also a possibility that You know, whatever it was that the egyptian saw Uh and and and the Mayan saw, you know, like they're they're you know, there are some, uh, you know, weird stories of you know, uh I guess you could call them gods or or demi urges or angels or demons or you could call them, uh, You know hyperdimensional beings or or whatever Uh, but yeah, I think that there's like even if And uh, here's where we might disagree again Even if the reality is just what we believe etc etc and You know, but even so even if there are no angels and demons There are because they exist in our dreams. They are because they exist like that's why they're in our mythology If it was Ernst castor Caster dreams or private myths and mythology or public dreams Like that's kind of the way I see it as far as like the consensus trance and consensual reality or whatever Yeah, I think I think that um You know, there's a firm Scientific basis for the idea that things are not as they appear Just just that that alone. I think I think that can be taken to be, you know As a fundamental things are not necessarily as they they appear Uh, you know, for instance Just right down to the fact that like, you know, the things that appear solid to me are actually vibrating on on on some level You know, everything's vibrating on some level Regardless how it it appears on the level, you know, however, uh, I have to process it in order to uh, you know Uh Like, uh, what was it the uh I correspond with Dr. Charles tart for a little while I liked his description of ego As a reality coping mechanism the idea of I for instance that this is my reality coping mechanism my personality The the the ego the the this is just this is just how I deal with the fact that You know, uh Like I'm I I'm not the same body that I was 10 years ago. I'm not the same mind that I was Uh, five minutes ago, you know, it's you know, uh Uh, so yeah, like I I honestly don't I I don't know how important it is to know, uh, whether whether, uh, you know, something is Uh just an archetypal metaphor and that's why it's in everybody's uh mythology and dreams and you know Uh shows up in art and literature over and over again. Like is there you know, I I don't even know, you know I mean, I I I see the value And if there if there was a way to get a crowbar and pull them apart But as it is like if if you can't like I think maybe part of the mystery is part of the fun, you know like It's kind of like the idea of you know, of course, we can't understand, you know, the mind of god The the you can't understand. How could you fathom that of whatever created you? That's like the idea of You know, I've heard it said that if uh You know, our brains are far too, you know complex for us to fully understand Uh And if they were simple enough for us to figure out we would be too dumb At that point, you know, so it's it's like that's that that's how I see that whole, you know It's it's kind of like a like a riddle or a co-on or whatever But like like for me, you know, I don't know. I don't know if it's uh entirely important to know, you know, uh Uh, when it when it comes to uh to some matters anyways, I I can see where uh for other people, uh, It would be of a much greater value and and like I said, if there was an answer there is, you know, uh, You know a definitive answer, but that's the whole thing, you know, uh, sometimes, uh, it like That's that's one of the key. I think traps of science too really, you know, like You can like Just think of a molecule for instance, you know, like you can write down what a molecule looks like But molecules are 3d. So that's not what a molecule looks like, you know And also like you've got this molecule and it's like in this arm is going out here But you can also bend it this way and it's the same molecule But you know, if it's right armed or left armed it it changes the way like it affects everything So I think like, you know, that's that's one of the uh traps of science Is that if you try to like quantify everything Then you're missing something you're gonna miss something, you know, like I like I I wouldn't presume to understand like, you know, uh Quantum science or anything, but I know enough about like Everett wheeler and the you know, the multiple worlds hypothesis and uh, you know Things definitely aren't as they appear reality is not as it appears and Uh, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence that so many, uh, you know, like is it a coincidence that so many conscious consciousness researchers and and uh physicists and and quantum mechanics End up like becoming mystics. I don't think it is. I think, you know, uh Once you realize oh wait everything's buzzing everything's vibrating I just can't see it because I would go crazy if I saw and heard everything, you know Uh, so yeah for for me like I don't know as far as the the alien and the you I I definitely I definitely uh, think that there may be a connection between the UFOs UAP, I guess it's a new politically correct term uh And and et's I don't know there there may be but uh, I'm also uh, like as as as far as I know, you know, like, uh Maybe they just exist on on some mental level But once again like that's not that's not any less real to me Like if if you don't have any matter if you're if you're just like, uh an idea form, you know, um Like that's that's like the idea of a like, you know, a tulpa in to bet in to bet and buddhism Like, you know when when you create an idea and that's basically what a mean is though too, you know For that matter like, you know memes Uh, that's like in the docking sense. Anyways, like, you know cultures made up of memes and tropes and these, uh, you know images and glyphs and and so yeah, whether or not like they're extraterrestrial or hyper dimensional or just constructs and archetypes like They I don't think like one has more or less power necessarily like, you know if they're, uh Discorporate or or corporate like, I don't know. I don't know. I uh, I I don't even know like For me, it's it's it's not like a huge deal But I think part of that is because like, uh, I don't know I I don't I don't think uh, I don't think all the mysteries are going to be unraveled in this life necessarily per se Phil, I love what you just said about tart and the reality coping mechanism that you bring because part of what We're doing and part of what kind of drew me to your work is There's something about truth that and the systematic pursuit of truth the unflinching pursuit of truth that I think Does bolster our spirits a little bit it allows us to sort through what's real and what's not so The search Yes alone. It's like it's like the pursuit of happiness like that's where the happiness is at the happiness is in the pursuit of it You know, what happens if you catch happiness? Well, I don't know you better let it go else. What do you have to pursue now? So what what are you pursuing now? What what's going on in in your world and what's coming up for you? I you know, um Uh, I haven't I haven't announced with the next Project that I'm currently working on is I'm still waiting for the second book Uh edits to be finished and you know speaking of edits. I wasn't able to get the Pedogate primer was not professionally edited. I had to proofread that myself and there are some uh Some grammar and typo issues that I'm hopefully going to get fixed soon Uh, but yeah by next year. I hope to have uh at at least two Full-length books should be coming out uh, the the one that you mentioned the deep state Penetrating the veils of the unelected shadow government and and another project that I've been working on for a little over a year now and um, I'm gonna be real coy And and not give anything away while also get I I give you I'll give you a big hint But at the same time it gives nothing away It has to do with dr. Morris west which really narrows it down So it could be that jones town or jfk or mcbay or Scientology or charles manson or you know, who knows maybe k-ultra or whatever, but it's it's going to have something to do with uh, Uh, with a doctor a doctor west. Uh, like I said, I've I've gotten some of his papers from the library special collection They're luckily able to like digitize it and send it to me I had to wait like a few weeks or whatever because they give you know, ucla Staff and students obviously get first dibs And if you're not then you just have to wait a few weeks or a month and a half or whatever And uh, then they sit in another month, which is like two or three weeks from now I should be able to uh request some more and then I'll be able to wait three or four more weeks But no, I'm going to be stacking morris west documents over the next Uh a few months. That's uh, that's definitely a big part of it. I've got uh Some interviews like the the the first book, you know The first book in the uh, the the second one that the deep state book both of them are very similar And and then they take a very like, uh, wide approach. You know, it's just a survey. It's like, uh Just showing all these different things and like, you know, they're all kind of somewhat connected to kind of give you this You know wide angle view of things Uh, but on the project that I'm working on right now that I'm doing the research and note taking and interviewing Uh process of now, um, this is going to be a deep dive like, uh Which you know, I think both are equally important just depending You know, depending on uh, because once again depending on on the angle that you look at something from, you know, uh The observer and the observed it's it's, you know, uh, like that that right there by the way, you know, that kind of thing That's that's that's poetry to me. That's transcendental. You know, uh It's and and and and I also agree with you by the way Is something uh in the search for truth and not just happiness but in the search for, you know, truth and meaning because that's You know, I I personally believe that like, you know, hedonism will only get you so far um Maybe some folks I definitely folks are built different and you know, your mileage may vary But but you know for my money's worth. I think I think that we all get more out of reality if you know if we Kind and and once again, uh, like the idea of you know, everybody who wants a revolution, you know, like you realize like revolutions They often have very similar endings, you know, it's it's like the who song meet the new boss. He's the same as the old boss Uh, so until we're able to like, you know, figure out what's going on in here and in here That's the you know, that's the only chance we have for any real meaningful Revolution or change is is when we're able to change ourselves Uh change our immediate surroundings and environment, you know, uh, make the world a little better around you And and hope that trickles down. I guess yeah, I guess trickle down is all we can hope for but We're all trickling down into each other and and I've really benefited a lot from The stuff that you've done that's trickled down my way and I hope people check out your website You have some you're a great writer. You really are and you really bring up a lightness to it But get all the facts out there. So yeah Yeah, like I talk about a lot of deep and dark subjects and you know at the same time I don't think people are able to like swear it with me, you know When I was doing the the higher side chats, I saw some people are like, you know Like is he is he taking this stuff as a joke or something like no I've got kind of a super silliest expression half the time because if I didn't I would go crazy, you know Like honestly like I make light of things You know because things are so heavy, you know things are really heavy And that's no reason to let yourself get dragged down by them. You know, that's another thing that you know I I always try and mention, you know um One one of the tricks of of, you know, uh The powers that be or however you want to describe them is demoralization and depression, you know Because you're not going to be on top of things. You're not going to change anything in your own life Or outside of your own life If you're demoralized and depressed And it's easy to get that way when when you see like, oh, well, it looks like, you know But no, I I don't buy the fact that like evil is in charge No, I just don't buy it. I just don't feel it. I don't believe it's true I could be wrong, you know, and if I am wrong Well, you know, I'm I'm glad that I'm wrong because I'm gonna have a better life Not believing that evil is in charge and being frozen with fear or indecision as a result. So yeah Wow, that's really pretty deep. I think uh, that's very profound And I agree with you. I think the evidence suggests the opposite Is that the light is in charge and the good is in charge and it's A million times brighter and stronger than the dark and that's why the dark You know Thrashes around and does all this stuff and plays all this game because it's the only attention they're going to get Like it's like a temper tantrum. Yeah, that's right And in the stillness of our heart when we wade out into the ocean I'm gonna go into the ocean later on today and you wade out there a little bit and you look at the Immensity of it and how small you are and yet how God still penetrates through all that immensity and reaches you That's that's magic and the rest of this stuff that they're calling magic is just Tricks Right, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, basically parlor tricks. Yeah So awesome, man. Thank you for taking so much time with me. I'm super interested in the jolly book So let me know when that comes out. Yeah, I can't wait to share it with you and I'll see you on the union Oh, definitely hope so. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Thanks again, by the way. I appreciate it Thanks again to Philip Fairbanks for joining me today on skeptico The one question I tip from this interview is what are we to make of our government's involvement in The scariest darkest evil stuff that they have been exposed now to be a part of openly We all do this all along. There's a new little expose out on the cia and sex trafficking kids Is part of their intelligence gathering? I mean, that's just We do it, but it's just we can't really really really Get there from here, you know land of the free home of brave and Oh, let me procure a two-year-old boy for you Let me procure a six-year-old girl for you in the hopes that I get some information We I don't know. I mean I can't process that. I don't know how that fits together Maybe you do and that's I guess the question to tee up from this interview is how do we wrap our head around that? Let me know your thoughts It's not always dark But as Phil does a great job of pointing out in this interview When it is we have to face it and find a way through it without getting demoralized without getting depressed with the way of Continuing to pursue The light at least that's what seems to make the most sense to me Until next time take care and bye for now