Welcome to Toffy TV, we are continuing our season review, Baz and Andy the Pave have already looked at the season overall, then they looked at the defence, so now we're going to look at the midfield. Listen it isn't going to be as statistically as appliance as when Andy was doing it. Baz will do a good job, Baz will do a very good job. I'm just here to just keep this seat warm, suppose. You're not here to give that the eyes for you, we always say, we always try to start saying it's the eyes and the stats, so we'll do the both. I'm not analytical, no? To be honest I've been very impressed by you've started, I like this. You're throwing the bits into the box. Listen, I was the first person to watch moneyball, let's have it right, let's have it right. I was telling you for ages, watch moneyball and you've picked up the gaunt and you've took it. Midfield is, it's the black hole, isn't it? It's the black hole of the football club, it really is, it's the part that really needs to be worked upon and it's the place where money has been just spunked up the wall, let's be honest, it's been absolutely wasted in that midfield and it's a major problem. So it's a strange one because obviously we've had money and we've bought, essentially we've probably bought decent footballers, good footballers, but they've all been, well it seems like on the outside looking in, they've all been bought without understanding how they all fit together and that, when people just say we've bought crap, I don't think we've bought crap but we've bought players that don't complement each other. And therefore it hasn't worked and therefore when you look at it now, you're looking at that midfield and going, the amount of money we've wasted, if only we had that money now for Carl, I want you lot to spend or whatever. That's been the issue, decent players but with no clue how to piece them together, that seems like anyway. No, I completely agree, it's just that hodgepodge of different people's ideas and different formations, it's a mess and the way, as we've said already, the worst part about it is you spend all that money, it's where, if you could take all that money back and you could give it to Carl or Antelotti and say go with your idea, and you'd probably find there's some fantastic players, but they're man brands because they're a couple. Or just have an overlined strategy for the football club that you know is going to be in place for five years, but maybe we have got that. No, I'm not saying we haven't now, I'm not saying we haven't had that since Carl Antelotti came in. It's just that if you have that money to do that and then you can start finding those players to go together, but now it just feels like the biggest problem for me is we've got players that we only signed last summer and yet they already seem like they are not needed for what comes next or don't really feel like they fit in, say a push to requirements and that to me is the biggest indicator of how wrong we've been.  Delph has had injuries since day one and Gabam has had injuries. I suppose there's a common theme there. The all three of them have been injured and it's meant we've not moved forward and then you add a Wobie into that as well and suddenly you're looking at the situation just scratching your head what we're going to do next.  It's really difficult this because when you look on back over, when you sign in these players, you have to look at it easy to be wise after the event. So everybody wanted us to, majority, can I say everyone obviously, majority wanted us to make Gomez permanent. The Westam and all that was sniffing around people were panicking. The Westam team was loving it. Delph, okay, that was a mixed reaction. I'm not going to sit here and pretend people were made up with Delph. Some could understand it. We said we could understand what he was trying to do with it. Others were saying he's injured. They've been proven right. He has been injured, he hasn't offered anything. Barman looked like an excellent prospect, six or four box-to-box player, can do the job of Ghana. Probably not to break nothing as well as Ghana, but there's other things he could do that Ghana couldn't do. So you were thinking, okay, we're going to have this physical presence that can get up and down the pitch. So you can understand why he was both. We've not seen him. The lad played a game in the half, you know, when he's out. Now, okay, okay, the initial prognosis on him was very worrying. You were talking March, now they're saying October he'll be back, maybe November. So the jury is very much still out with Gabam because we've not seen him and I think it's unfair to judge him because we simply, the lad can't help being injured, that's the way it is. Do you think that's the common denominator, though, between everything, is that Gabamon injury, Gabamon as a position, the position he plays in, that's been the common denominator for all those players, is that without him being the player we needed, the person we were replacing Ghana with, that's why the rest of it hasn't worked. He was the keystone to it all. And I know he wasn't ever going to come into the team and just hit it off straight away. He was always going to take time. Do you think that was the one? Because I know that a big reason for that would say is, because Marco Silva's the agency to get him in the side as well. And I personally feel that's what has cost us the lad. I don't think he should have come on at Crystal Palace, I said that at the time. For me it was for a player who had just been back from the African Nations for a week, hadn't played any pre-season games and was thrown into the Premier League after 10 minutes of a Premier League game. He wasn't fit. He didn't look like he had a real idea of not only the Premier League, but our team. But you forget that. You bring a play-in, you've got a pre-season to try and better play it in. It's not easy, and then you throw a play-in into a game where you've got 10 men. Who are physical and you're away from home. Exactly. That to me was one of the worst decisions that Marco Silva I feel ever made. I think he did it for all those reasons. For the reason you just said. No, no. It's what I'm saying when people, when you're looking at players coming into the club and you can criticise Marcel Brands or you can applaud them and say, oh he's done well, he's brought this down, whatever it may be. The problem ever that last summer was that we only had one of those plays that we're talking about. We had one. The rest of them are all the same. Morgan Snidlin, Tom Davis, Sigurds, Gomez, Delph. None of them are quick. None of them. Garn, I don't forget they did the job of two players because he could get about the pit, he would break stuff off. If I criticised Brands, I would say he should have brought two gobbins in because he should have allowed one of them to, or to be bedding it as well. I think, what I would say is, I think we should have sold Garner earlier. I think we should have looked at the situation and I know he was at the African nations but I think we should have sold him at the beginning of the summer because he was always destined to go. We should have said to them, take him now and you can have him for £35 million and we can get on with our business. I think that was the first mistake. But I still think a more experienced manager would have looked at the situation and said, Rome's not built in a day. We don't need this lad for the first day. We don't need this lad for the first month. Tom Davis was on the bench that day. Wherever you think about Tom Davis, he's played over 100 games, wherever you think of him, Tom Davis coming into a gaming in the Crystal Palace knows what it's going to be like and could get about it. All right, the following week we play Wofford and we get three points and he starts and who's to say, regardless he would have started in that game, but I just think a more experienced manager would have looked at the situation and looked at it. We look at the first few games of the season and we get very worried very quickly because we're fans. I think good managers don't do that. I think they look at it and go, that's part of the pre-season process is those first few games. We used to say all the time, season doesn't start until the transfer window, this is when the transfer window shut at the end of August. Season doesn't really start until after that first international break and I still think that's the thing. I'm not saying good or bad, I think experienced managers would have left Gabamon and said, lad, have a few weeks of training with us, get to know the team and then we'll bring you in and then we'll bed you in. For me, I just think that for a player that we only had one other kind of as well, I think that, honestly, you could trace the entire season back to something as simple as that. I mean, obviously there's more than that. It's right, we should have looked at more players like him because of Garne being so important to us because he was that player, he was so important to us. It's weird that we didn't, you know, we just said there, three cents in my field plays, that would have made four, but then make the effort to get some off the door then. That's as simple as that, right? Well, we're getting this, so Snyddon, Morgan Snyddon, we'll talk about him very briefly now, but when he went to Nice said he wanted to go last summer, he said he had offers to go last summer and everything said to him, no doing other season. Well, evidence shouldn't have been saying that too, evidence shouldn't have been saying, well, we're going to bring this lad in who's going to be able to get up and down and we should, realistically, that should have been done early as possible because we should have had someone to come in because we knew, we knew regardless of whether Garne stayed or went, Garne wasn't going to be available the first day. I'm sure they got to the semi or the final, whatever, he went deep, didn't he, into the tournament, so we knew we were never going to have him anyway, so we should have had someone as well.  But the thing about that is that football people, certainly people like Marcel Brands, they pay to understand those things, they can't get away with hindsight, they've got to cover the bases and I think the Morgan Snyddon's are really interesting because I remember the back end of the season, I remember the back end of the season before and, you know, Silver had come out a few times and said, I like him, I like Morgan Snyddon, I want him to stay. Now if the player was so adamant to go, why didn't we get him out and get someone like Morgan Snyddon in there? Well, someone more mobile. You know what I mean? Yeah. If you like the tall, athletic player, then why not go and say, right, we're going to let Morgan Snyddon go and let's look for a younger version, let's get rid of his wages. Why we can? He wants to go. Let's get rid of him. Why did, why? And again, that's what I'm saying. Why were we clinging on to things that we didn't really need to do? I say, I go back to Ghana. We all knew he wanted to go, but he gave us four great months at the end of the season. Surely we should have... And showed us what we need to see. Yeah, and surely we should have gone the first day and gone, do us a favour, if you want him, can you take him now? Because we don't... It got to a week before the season when we sold them. Where the problem? Yeah. And you actually seen Silver, you know, we were at Wigan the day he went. And Silver's future was like, I was trying to convince him to stay. And I was like, he was never going to stay. And I'm not putting that on Silver, by the way. No, I'm not. Because Silver was in a position where... It's everybody, isn't it? Yeah, it's everybody as well, but it was... It just smacked. You always look for things in football to follow patterns. It's exactly the same as the Romelu Lukaku thing. It was the undoing of Cumin. And this was the undoing of Silver. We... Lukaku. In February, he turned up a Finch farm with Mini Raiola, ready to sign a five-year deal. I left it in an extension. Big money, bladi bladi. Left the room when the spokesperson's mum came back and said, I'm not signing. They had to press it. There was a lot of stuff ready to go that day. Right? He didn't sign. And when he didn't sign, we knew he was going. We knew he'd be gone in the summer. He went in the summer. And we went all summer chasing Olivier Giroud. Left it like, didn't get a striker in. Cumin come up short. He had sands row and all. I didn't work out. And Cumin lost his job. The same with Silver. So does that come down to then, sort of understanding, having more understanding of what your club can and can not do in the times we went on. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean? They said, I'm not talking as an everton. I'm talking like money wise. No, but what I'm saying is I'm not talking as an everton. I'm talking like if you were looking from the outside in. Is it not accepting someone like Lukaku or Garnet is going to go and saying, do you know what I mean? You know when you look at other clubs, right? And you look at other clubs, you go, we're going to sell this play in the summer. He's a great asset. I know what we're going to do is we're going to go and replace him. Right. And we've got look at the Gabrielle situation at the moment as it stands sitting here today in like Gabrielle. Obviously we were after them in there. The presence of Leo keeps on saying, you know, he's got to go because we've got to get the person in. And it's that understanding that what it's a conveyor belt. You're not going to keep these people forever. If they want to go, want to go, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of these people who just wants to play, wants to go. But if it's all being sort of agreed that the play is going to go, then get it done and get the next one in. And I think sometimes that, that realisation sort of holds us back as a club. I think the problem ever can have as well. And this will be, this will be us still feeling because it's, they've got two different areas. So this hasn't, this isn't just being on Marcel Brander's watch. So that then says to me, it's higher up. So it says it's either emotional decision higher up or it's a monetary decision higher up.  We were still trying to keep Llecharchew. We knew he was going, we knew he was going to go, but the club was still trying to keep him. The club could have turned on and gone, you're going anywhere mate. You've still got three years left you ain't going anywhere. He didn't and he went, we didn't replace him. This time, maybe, maybe, and it's the only way I'll kind of accept it. If it won't go right, all right, that's different then, is if Everton were hamstrung money wise. So Marcel Brands didn't have that pot of money available to go right. Because the best clubs go and get the replacement in. So when the good player goes, the blows already being softened. Again, that's maybe where the, maybe. And I get, listen, don't get me wrong, the African nations is a big thing. They both played in it. So, yeah, but you can still sell someone. No, no, I'm just saying that might be the thing where we couldn't have got Gabam in any quicker. No, but we could have got someone else. And then Gabam on board anyway. I mean, let's start with Snidelam, because he played 15 games for Everton. He started 12 of them. His ratings off, just for anyone who didn't see the defence, rather than us just going right, we're giving them and that's the rating. I've done who scored and so for score, because they're supposedly a bit more scientific. They rated them 6.73 and 6.41. Across the season. Me personally, I think he's lucky if he gets a 6. But what I will say about Morgan Snidelam is, he did a job that he was supposed to do. It wasn't necessarily what Everton needed, Everton needed more. But in terms of someone who will break up the playing front of you back four, when he was allowed to do that with other legs round him, particularly the end of the season before Silver's one when we had a good season, he was good at just doing that job, winning the ball and just passing it on. The issue was, sometimes he looked like he couldn't be bothered and he had no gears to go through. So, I mean, what would you take on Snidelam? Obviously we've sold them and I know you've felt... I'm not going to give a player rating because I've got my player ratings to do on a separate video. And I don't know what they are yet, so I can't... I might be going against myself. But just what do you take on? Do you know what I would say? I'd say we would've finished the season better if we had them in our midfield. I genuinely believe that. And I know...  He could do a job and... It's the right decision to sell them. Of course it is because you've got to think about the future. Again, it's not for a handful of games. It's about the future. So, it's the right decision and maybe that decision like we said should be made last season. Big gain. Yeah, listen. I've been very open on this. I wanted them so from the Leon game onwards. Well, wait. His heart was not at Everton football club and it shows that on the pitch. So, I'm glad he's gone. But he still could do a job for us and he could do it. The mad thing is he could still do that job a lot better than other people could do. You actually love being at the club. So, he... John Davies. Yeah, okay. All right, fine. Let's move on to Fabian Belf. He's on the graphic there, came in. Came in. Supposedly, is someone to guide the midfield and have a presence in the dressing room. I think that's been... That was laid out from when we signed him. Silver spoke about it. Marcel Brand spoke about it. Delft spoke about the meetings and all was explained to him. It's been a disaster daily, I would say. I don't think there's been... I think there's been the odd game when he's had a really good game. I think Wolves are home. I think he was really good when he beat them 3-2. I think he played really well in that.  He's a decent footballer. I'm not convinced he's what we need and the injuries ruin anything. What I would say is, I would say it's the injuries first that have been the problem. The injuries have completely ruined any kind of rhythm he's had. We won't know what UC would be to the team until he plays an ex-a-monter games or is available for ex-a-monter games. So that's the first thing. And that's the problem. People sit on... People, you know, wear nappy when he came. Some people wear nappy when he come in. For me, for the money... Listen, I don't know what his wages are so I can't sit here saying he's on ex-a-monter to this case. I think it was a three-year deal, a 28 for 8 million quid. I don't think that's bad. Premier League. Premier League. Premier League when... I don't think that's bad personally. I just... And sometimes, that's the risk you take. And it's backfired. Now, who's to say next season? He isn't fit all season.  And, you know, because he's injury free, he plays in a variety of positions and he has a good, solid season. And if that happens, and if he has that happens, then... And who's to say as well that the club don't lean from his injury record and say, listen, your red zone is not... The same. The same as everyone else's. So you've got to bring it down and when you get to this level here, we've got to pull you back and we all understand that. I would say the worst part of the whole thing was the fact that we had the lockdown and he came back injured. That's like the slapping in the face. Because he probably would... Well, he would have, he would have been better than Gomez. Sigurdun Davies in the middle of the park because he's played there before. OK. One thing people say and the right, he played a lot of games at left back for City near the end.  He's done all right for us. I think spaz around. I thought he had a good game in that, contributed. A couple of other games he got stupidly sent off at Wofford away, but we went on to win the game and there's been some crack. I haven't forgiven him for kicking a ball up near against Newcastle instead of it in the corner flag, which cost us points. But he's obviously a decent footballer. Pep Guard, the older like them. And I think he'd like to come back. We got out of lockdown and he wasn't available and he didn't play in any game. And we had nine games. So I think Pep Guard, the older like them now because he could drop them into the team when he needed them and he knew that. If there was a drop off in quality or whatever, then you'd still, he was a classic, he was a classic squadfiller. That would go in and do a job and unfortunately he's been asked to do. The thing about it is he's come to us and I don't think anyone ever said, you're going to be our starting sentiment fielder. And that's the funny thing. I don't think there's ever been this a weight of expectation on him that he was going to drive the club forward. We just seen it as a utility player. We've seen it as like a decent player coming in for decent money. Good experience. Good age, good experience. And as long as we can keep him fit, keeping him fit has been the biggest problem. And if we could have kept him fit then I think we can keep him fit. I think we've got a good player, but it's whether we can keep him fit. Well, he played 16 times for us in the Premier League. 13 starts, which is more than I remember him playing. He don't start that many games. Sophie scored giving 6.69. Who scored giving 6.49. I'd probably have to give him 5 out of 10 over the season for me personally because he just hasn't been available for us. And there's been games when I would have expected him to take the game a little bit more. Now, you're right. If you can get him fit and if you put a partner in with him, who can actually get about the pitch as well and take and share the weight or take a bit of the weight off him, then he might be, you know, in a more settled side, he's probably a better player. Maybe we're looking for too much from him because we're all looking at that midfield in going. We miss Ghana cos, you know, and Ghana, don't forget me wrong. Ghana, you were looking at in going, he's nearly 30. When he gets across the half-way line, doesn't really do anything. But it's the only other stuff that Ghana did that I've missed massively this season. So I'd have to give him probably five out of ten. I know you're not Ghana cos you've got your own thing to do. But let's move on to Tom Davis. A lad that's played, appeared 30 times this season for Everton. Started 23 games, scored one goal, no assists. Obviously, Deltin Snidl had no assists either or any goals. That'll be a common theme as we go through the midfield. Tom Davis' sofa score was 6.64. And who scored at him at 6.45 across the season. I'd probably give him a 6 out of ten. I think there's been some games when he's looked good and done alright. Since lockdown, I think he's been awful. I have to say that, apart from maybe Sheffield United where he just did a job in terms of getting stuck in. Am at the stage where we're going to you, am at the stage with Tom Davis now where we loan him or we sell him. I love him to improve and stay part of the squad. I think keeping him in now for next season, I think damages him. I think it damages him as an Everton player and I think it damages him value-wise. So I think he needs to go. Preference will be on loan to maybe Germany or something like that and play most weeks and see if his level improves. And then we make a decision on him because there will be in every successful squad or every decent squad you need a Tom Davis type player who can come in, do a couple of games and go back out and do different jobs. But they have to keep up to the level and at the moment, I think his confidence looks shot a bit as well. So, what would you do with him? No, I think he's got to go and have a year somewhere. And I know a lot of people want to sell him and I have to fair enough. I've got no problem with that. Lot of people think that he's done everything he can and he'll never improve any further. He's only 22 isn't he? I'd like to see him I'd like to see him play a full season in one position and I don't think that can happen to us. So, a loan somewhere would have to do excuse me a loan somewhere would have to do maybe Jeremy or somewhere but it would have to be something that really pushes him to and get him out of his comfort zone and I think that has to be for him as well and I'm not saying that he's comfortable at everything but he doesn't seem to be improving as a player and I think when you see that John Hogg eating during the season playing games of football Tom's played a lot of football 30 games so it's not like he hasn't played so I I think it's one or the other it's one or the other I don't want him starting the team maybe a different voice as well from another coach another voice is he not another I think I think what he needs is a bit like what John Joe happened where a manager says I want that player and I want that player because I've got an idea for him Shelker would be great for him I should buy Shelker I think it would be a great move for him especially if at some stage the fans get back in the stadium next season and they're passionate I think it would be good for them Andre Gomes 22 million very very talented footballer great passer of the ball terrible injury this season the bonus we saw them again let's be honest a couple of decent games in lockdown some poor games in lockdown also missed the couple it's evident he needs physicality and pace next to him because he's not very good tackling let's be honest but when he shows those flashes you see he's got that ability that could really help this side he ended up playing 19 Premier League games so half the games started 17 of them one assist which came against Villa no goals again another massive problem for everything 6.48 with Solfer score 6.42 I scored I scored on my bar of 6 out of 10 because I think at times he's by far our best midfield player but that there's not much of a bar at the moment because they all seem to do the same and he's the one who can actually take the ball and get us going but a lower level than he produced the year before it's static awful it's static terrible he's a midfielder he's supposed to be an attacking midfielder I suppose he's not one he's not really one thing and that's a big problem because we've got a midfielful of people who are very little going forward that's name for midfielder Solfer and just one goal and one assist across those four it's the problem isn't it but Andre Gomez is how was he really playing that well not really he's doing alright but he wasn't playing that well after the injury okay come back against Arsenal and come on add a really good little cameo but you know Sheffield's tonight of the part hasn't really done anything you can excuse him because of the injury I suppose but now he's got this has been his preseason but you're right I think we do need someone next to him who allows him to get up the pitch someone where he feels like he's got that security behind him I don't know whether that's something in his own head I mean the last sort of 10-15 minutes against Villet when we were 10 minutes when we were 1-0 down and he just started moving up the pitch and getting around the box he was he's got good feet he's got strong so if he can break into the box people are going to stop him but he's never in the box he's never around the box he's always 10 yards outside the box and it's just that's something that the manager is going to have to or someone is going to say listen you need to start being up there if your legs can't carry it then you're not in my team because you can't have midfielders who sit on the edge or his partner has to be the ones breaking into the box yeah maybe so but again that's the make-up of the team it's buying very similar players and not not really that's been the problem putting them together there's a big season ahead of him big season ahead of him and what we need is real genuine alternates so that he doesn't have to play all the time I'm on a shave one till the end but just very quickly we're going to move into a wide area obviously signed deadline today 25 Premier League games for Evan started 19 of them one goal no assists had 8 6 goals and 8 assists the season before for Arsenal one goal no assists for Evan in the Premier League sofa score has him at 6.75 who scored has him at 6.56 again for me it'd probably be 6 out of 10 because I think there's been times when he's looked good West Hamerown particularly when he was in the 10 Sheffield Wednesday away in the caravoke he played in that as well but very bright, very good very comfortable memory come on at Southampton and turned the game in Evan's favour memory played quite well down at Leicester as well when we ended up losing but there's been not enough of that for me he's had two spells out with an injury hasn't done enough he hasn't nailed down a position in a season when I don't think any of our wide plays have nailed down a season it's because he's not a wide play but he did play off the left for Arsenal he's not a wide play as long as I've got a hole somewhere bottom of my back he's not a wide play he is a central player who needs to be able to go left or right he needs to link the play he needs to go up the pitch with the ball and I remember the day we signed I remember sitting here with Andy and Andy telling me his numbers and saying why he was excited to sign them and he said he carries the ball we were looking for a ball carrier you know the summer before we tried to get Malcolm in and his numbers in fans of carrying the football were hugely impressive it's something we've not had in the side since Ross Barkley left and that's what excited Andy and I could only go off his numbers but you can't carry the ball in a wide position you just can't there's no way to go unless you've got light and pace and he hasn't and you're right I was down in Southampton and the memory came on it was 1-1 he did change the game he picked the ball up moved us forward he got the ball to sit he was waxing in with Charleston finishes he did exactly the same at Leicester on the left he was waxing in with Charleston that's what we miss in this team we miss somebody who can go through the areas do you think that he would have had more success off the left just bear with me if we had two centre midfielders who made runs as well because I think that happened with Bernadie because Ghana could move and we had Sigarton I think with the midfield make-up we've got everyone sits behind so it's dead easy to block off so therefore he does become redundant you've got to have players who move and no-one moves but I think he was born to play in the 3 in the midfield he was going to take gilfee-Shigarton position number one I put that down to Michael Silver again it's just terrible management you buy a player playing in that position simple as that if you have to upset someone and I just don't think Michael Silver liked upsetting people that was his big problem he's not a manager he's a good coach he's not a manager if you're a manager you've got to be willing to say you want to play me because every time he dropped gilfee-Shigarton he was an injury to be after and gilfee-Shigarton was backing the team no ifs or buts just back he's not a good manager he's not a big manager and I don't think he ever will be unless he learns to deal with people or have people around them who can deal with those people but I fear for a woby because I just don't think he fits in unless unless he learns another side of the game where he can play centre midfield but I don't think he can but because he needs to he needs to learn the hard bits and make some on your listen to offers and that's because and that's not because I think he's rubbish I just don't think he fits and if he doesn't fit then don't hang around also don't wreck the lads career give him, let him go I honestly feel they'd be somewhere where he'd play off the striker I still think he's a good player I still think he's got a lot to offer I just don't think he fits into what he wants and again someone who's deemed as a failure because we've gone from one formation to another formation but I put the failure down to the manager not making the decision and put them in the team from day one and this player any player that people are just shawoned into playing on the left or playing on the right it comes down to the manager not having the bollocks to play him in what his position is not being to me is a big thing I mean if he isn't sold this summer we may see him going into that number 10 if Carlo does play at times the 4-2-3-1 because I think he is someone who will travel I think he'd be more effective than Sigurddon but then if there's a bid coming for them his value is probably very similar to what it was because it's only been a year therefore maybe the bid will see but now the one who comes into this category 27 games played in the Premier League 15 starts, 3 goals to assist he's our best, most creative and that's horrific isn't it 3 goals to assist is the best 6.7-1 from Sophie's score, 6.5-7 from Hugh's score I've given Adgo with 6 out of 10 again I think there's been moments when he's been very good but they've been fleeting I think the year before him and Dean had a cracking little partnership I think that's because we had runners in the field we had people who would move around Sigurddon was more mobile a year ago in that team Garnah naturally moved around so people and then that because of that Bernard could travel into those spaces this year because we are so static he just looks physically like he can't cope now because there isn't any movement Don't forget he had a bad injury this season as well He had an injury and obviously he's had the mental health He had a bad injury but I also think I cannot put it on the manager he brought a wellbeing and didn't play me in his proper position and put him in Bernard's position so what does that say to the player and he had a decent start so what does that say to the player and again that's terrible management that's terrible management that's been able to go you know what I'm a little bit less scared of that player than I am of you so I'm going to put him in your position that's not knowing how to deal with players that are on the manager and Bernard's size will always work against him but he's a good footballer again he's another one he's a number 10 but he's finished the season off really well and you're right if you've got other players in there like a Garnah who do the physical work for you you get away with them but we know how good of a player he is from the season before we know that he can travel with the ball really well we know we were some at the end of the season oh this is great like PNR and Bains all over there needs to and this season it's just been the manager broke it up for some the manager broke it up because he didn't know what to do with a Wobby it's the simple fact he did not know what to do with a Wobby and that's because he couldn't handle Sigarton clearly as a character I don't know why if you buy a player because you think another player it needs to be replaced then replace him replace the player I'm afraid I put a lot of this on my silver shoulders and this is where when you go back to talking about it's on the players and I fully appreciate that but if you've got a good thing that's working and something else isn't working then deal with the problem that isn't working and the problem that seems to have not been working all season is you know gilfy Sigarton more than anything else which I know we'll come on to in a minute Anthony Gordon 11 appearance is four starts four goals one assist 6.68 and 6.46 respectively again I'll probably give him 6.5 out of 10 I think he's done well he's thrown in got some starts looked a real bright prospect for us in a difficult time because the team's not playing very well obviously behind closed doors and all that's been different he's a bright spot in the season and that hasn't been great not towards the future yeah it's been a it's been a nice way to sort of give him games hasn't it in the lockdown I know he'd already played before that and you can go back as far as what November December when he got involved and so it's been a it's been a decent introduction we can all see I think what he offers and hopefully next season he kicks on a little bit more takes the confidence again manager finds a position that suits the player but there's no rush there's no there's no expectation it's just let the player play and let it hopefully he yeah and he hasn't what's good is I suppose he hasn't had one of those moments yeah he hasn't had one of those moments where people go he's the best player in the world look at him it's slow and steady building up and I think that keeps the expectations down but he looks like a good prospect no he looks like a good player but they've obviously got a feeling and he's going to be very talented footballer so let's just let him get on with it fair play and then finally on this Theo Walcott who's played 25 times for Everton this season 17 starts and the Premier League 6.66 from Sophie Scorsic 6.44 from Humsgood a Walcott for me is a good squad player he's not a starter he's given us something a little bit since he came back from injury you see that because we don't have anybody on the right and he's probably our best option on the right at the moment but that's an area that we need to buy sadly Theo Walcott is a starter in this team no matter what it is no in this team he is because there's nobody better than them and you know what people are going to argue all day but there isn't there's no one better than them at right midfield in this squad and they have to buy some on to replace them but what he gives you when he plays is what other players in our squad don't give us what other players in our squad is that he's direct he carries the ball he takes the ball from the halfway line to the edge of the box what he does with it after that is the problem that's the problem but they'd have an assist on Sunday no he did he scored against Ville I'm not sitting here saying he's brilliant what I'm saying is he's the best in our squad and that is a defining issue but he does carry the ball and whether people like it or not that's modern football it's players who travel in straight lines with the ball you're looking at players you'll get you up the pitch you'll get you from one area to another that'll get you out of trouble or whatever it's decision making isn't it it's finer balls rubbish we've seen it on Sunday in the last game you should have put us up in front at 1-1 saying it before we scored it's as fine a ball it's that thing that probably in the old days he didn't have to worry about when he was a kid he had the confidence and most of the time he just put it in the back of the net forgot that skill but sadly he has he hasn't got that little bit of pace to get him those extra yards it's just him and the keeper or whatever but sadly he is the best we've got and that's something that we're going to have to that's a serious position to replace and nobody has replaced him there's been loads of plays of opportunities but every time a wobby gets the ball he puts his foot on it and wants to come inside there's nobody, should there be a little run on the right which I didn't mind I thought we could have done that a few more times because I thought it worked but look at that he's been in and out and it's very sad to say he's the best right winger we need to replace that area he's a good sub in my opinion and finally the biggest disappointment of them all is this man who's fell off a cliff this season really he hasn't been amazing for everything but he's been decent till this season 13 goals last season this year 35 appearances 30 goals scored in the Premier League shot on target 14 big chances created 5 assists 2 that is that's horrendous he dropped when you think about what he did last season and the goals he scored and how you got away with at the end of the season he's like the brains of the team everything goes through you get the ball to him and then you start getting wider and you get into the forward plays and over the summer his legs have just gone we got married that's where his legs went he got lazy he got he just stopped doing what he was good at which was getting himself in that pocket and he that was it once he stopped being in that pocket once he stopped getting the ball to him then garbage being in the pocket that's where his legs went that's the problem for me is that he's just he just offers nothing now he's not even having shots in 25 yards that just aren't going in I'm causing the keeper to and then we can pick the bits up maybe from a ritualist or a dom running in there's been too many gains when it's just passed on by he's pointing where to and turning knocking it back all the time that's not he cost a lot of money on big wages but not even that it's the fact that passengers we can't afford and he's a passenger every week the drop off 13 goals to 2 one of them is a penalty you know just gone the other goal was actually ironically he come on against west and for 15 minutes and ran around and scored a cracker and maybe that should have been his role and maybe the world will be playing maybe he should have been the last 25 minutes when people with levels are dropped and he can get in that space again you can look at Marco Silva with that and go bad management should have done that he can't play wide managers have tried to use him off the side and his legs have gone he could do it a few years ago but now he's obviously a good football player but if you can't compete and run around on a Premier League pitch then you know go to anybody certainly not in a team you could probably play in a team that has got fast younger players you can do a lot of running form and get in the ball and then maybe he could influence them but in this particular evident team and the way it's made up he's got Italian footy written all over him without the shadow I think in Italy I think it would suit his skills I think certainly you could play in that deeper playmaker role I think the problem is he just doesn't suit that kind of player at the moment and we play 4-4-2 but we do now yeah but even at the beginning of the season maybe it was a hangover from the following season and a lot of football with the World Cup and it's Euro and that kind of thing it's just not worked and then the chance as I said when a Wobie was in there and there was a bit more freshness it helped but the manager didn't stick to his guns and he just seems to he's being continued in the team and I can understand why because of his set pieces we've scored a lot of goals from set pieces certainly corners and stuff from this season so they obviously feel like that's a factor to keep him in the side but he's it's lucky that Dominic Harvell-Lunes took up the slack of the goal scoring because if he hadn't we'd be in major trouble I think because to drop that many goals we've got what? 9 goals across my field we've got Walcott, Superman 3-5 Wobie all of those in my field we've just gone through 9 goals and yeah there's Jack Reel he's got a tenth of the season he's got a team that he's hanging on staying up 10 goals he's got 5 and 6 assists just one player you're looking at how best there's Bernard and people will say Bernard's awful and yet he's got 3 goals and 2 assists Walcott another person but the thing about it is that we should be saying Bernard's rubbish with those numbers and Walcott centre him in field plays he gets him 1 to penalty so we're open play we've got 2 goals from our midfielder in open play Davis is Southampton I take offers for all of them I want to say a word I take offers for every single one of them there's no-one who says to you I can't be shoulders they're not offering anything you've got to get plays you offer to do something your centre midfielder in my opinion the pair of them should be able to get you half a dozen goals they should you're looking at the best Chelsea, Mason Montscore about 9 goals or something but they're not scoring goals they should be making goals and I know assists aren't the best and I know chances are created but still you would have thought we can contribute more that more than anything really for me underpins evidence evidence problems so what's the score for him and did you do Walcott as well Walcott was 2 goals 3 6.44 and Sigarton is 6.86 and 6.65 but I don't know his numbers are the best out of all of our midfielder on one on the others the knockers who scored are a little bit harsher so it drops down harsher wyt ti wneud mai? well yeah yours are different mine have no scientific they just take everything into account but that's the midfield and I think regardless of the chat we've had and regardless of the numbers I've just given you the most diamond statistic there is 9 goals across all of them including wingers I think that's pathetic because we should be looking to sign a right winger at getting 9 on his own a left winger at getting half a dozen two centre midfielders that get half a dozen is another 20 or 23 24 goals you put that into the jar and you call that looming mwy's key all of a sudden you score in 60-70 and I know obviously we'll be doing the strikers next but I think it makes those numbers make a mockery of anyone criticising our forwards when you're midfielders we've got Michael Keyin and Gary Mina have scored more than one, two, three, four five and equal Theo Walcott and part of all midfielders are two centre backs mate you know it's probably got more assists he's got three assists he's got many assists to see and he's a centre back Gary Mina, injury hit Gary Mina injury prone he's played 29 Premier League games he's got two goals and one assist bettered numbers than diamond ffilders that's the key if you're anti-lotty and a statman and you sit down and look at them you just go see that you don't need to be a genius and that's why I haven't struggled embarrassing there you go that's at the midfield it's a joke it's the backhaul of Everton football club and yet it's had all that money spent on you 22 that's 40 to 50 95 125 145 million just off the top of me there you go let us know your thoughts in the comments what would you do to this midfield and should footballers get married snidel among you yet they shouldn't get married they should wait to leave finished playing football and then get married or get married before you come to Everton no no just never get married just stay single on the form till you finish football there you go make sure you check out our video on the defence make sure you check out our season review as a whole and yet we'll be doing one on the forwards as well and we'll be doing the player ratings as well my player ratings from the season so it's that's the scientific one that's the angry rant at the end of games is more scientific than that let's be honest as a football fan there you go give this video a like, subscribe and if you want more great videos join us on page and the link is in the description thank you for watching, see you later


pathway on the other side, part of our pathway on the other side is building an augmented reality district of learning in downtown Washington DC, and really looking at augmented reality is the technology that, you know, merges people and technology and physical communities. So I try to explain this, hopefully that was at least a start. I'll put some links. That helped a lot. Thank you. Thanks, Michael. And I just showed a little bit about Michael in my brain and also the BitLattice project, which is part of what Michael wanted to talk about a bit among friends who care about platforms and things like that. So shall we dive into that? Do we want to sort of check in a little bit? I'd love to hear who else I'm talking with, too. I guess you all know each other. Sure. We've been hanging wild in these zooms. Quick round of intros. Hank, you want to? I have a suggestion that everybody encapsulates somebody else real quick. So Michael Grossman is a technologist, business person, maybe not in that order. And he runs a cool social bookmarking site called Factor, F-A-C-T-R, very interesting thoughtful, like he's one of the thoughtful people, comes up with nice pointed stuff. And he's got a background in not technology and not business as much. So he's kind of a little bit more artsy. Awesome. Michael, do you want to take a swing? That's a tough act to follow. I know. I know. It's much about anybody, as Pete just said about me. I'll try you, Jerry, just because I've known you the longest, though barely, and say Jerry is someone who looks at everything in the world and tries to map it in his brain and figure out what it means and meet the people who he's mapping around whenever he can. And has made more connections in both senses of that word than anybody else I know, I think. And yeah. Cool. Thanks. Thanks. So F-A-C is an adventure with us who cares really, really deeply about the community side of all the things we're talking about, and also kind of media explorations, and is trying to figure out how to motivate us to come together in possibly game-like formations so that we can make serious play out of assembling how the world works and finding our way back to discourse and dialogue and solving the world's problems. Can I use that? Sure. It's now recorded, and Pete's going to get a blood transcript. Recorded. Oh, how about that? And I don't know if you can do Hank, but if you can give Hank a swing. I feel terrible because I was going to say, I don't like this game. I'm taking my ball and I'm just going to stay here. Hank, you want to help me? So I can do Hank, too. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. That's the hard part about this game. I'm going to answer them and is a futurist who cares a lot about positive cartography. And he sort of every decade kind of there's a phrase that characterizes his work, but he's involved. He's been involved in several future centers and kind of global futures networks, works a lot with Leif Ed Benson and he and Leif and I have a standing call early Mondays. And the positive cartography thing resonates really nicely with Open Global Mind and the stuff that we're doing here. So we've been trying to find different kinds of overlaps because positive thinking in a dire situation is likely going to be a good thing. Hank, let me let me know how many things I missed, but I'm sure I missed a lot. Well, I think for this game that that's enough anyway. And that leaves me to talk about Pete and introduce Pete. Pete is the evil genius of technology. Oh my God, so good. He knows so much more about technology and than I do because I can't even find the words to describe it. He is working with setting up a massive wiki. He loves programs like Obsidian. But I understand from the conversations of the last eight or nine months, he's so eager to try new things that if anyone suggests something new, he'll immediately look it up on somewhere on internet, post a link to it and have mastered it in the chat and have mastered it by the next time we meet. How's that? And if the camera, if the framework of pan back, you'd see that underneath his hands are like. Thank you. I apologize a little bit for bringing that game up. Some of us have kind of an unfair advantage. We know more about folks than other people. I have a, but on the other hand, it's a good exercise, I think, and kind of friendliness that it didn't explode. I have another one. Maybe we should try real quick, which is a little bit less unfair, which is. We ask each other a question. So each person gets to answer a question from somebody else. So I'll go first. Truth or dare. I don't think so. Michael, what, what brings you here today? I am Michael from the call. Michael Robbins. Jerry. I were emailing last night. I'm really struggling.  And, you know, I feel like I'm out of time, out of money, out of energy, and, and I need help. And your co-founder recently had a crisis in the family. I'm forgetting exactly what happened. Her father. Her father was an accident and died.   The whole other side to it is going to feel the love of Lapogos. People have, you know, we've been, we've been able to talk to people who understand bits and pieces of it.  You know, we have to do this. You're right. Or you know, here's some other ideas, like, but, but there's nobody who really can. You're not alone anymore, partly because we've been on that journey together for this whole thing. I don't know how much it overlaps with your quest, but that's what we've been chewing on here since the beginning of lockdown, actually. Can you talk a little bit about the technical aspect that will come back to it? I think you want to do a round like Peaches said, which would be interesting, but can you talk for a moment about the technical aspects of bit lattice and what brought you here about that? Yeah. If you're familiar with Moe's surgery for skin cancer, if you're not, it's where they put up basal skill carcinoma and slice a layer and look under the microscope. Is there still cancer there? Okay. We need to dig deeper. Is there still cancer? We need to dig deeper. If we're going to build a platform, we have to go down to bedrock, and this bedrock is not just on the technology side, it's on the human network side, and so bit lattice has been the evolution of my 18-month quest on distributed ledger technology that started off with Kira Finlow-Bates and Linda Gatz of the Blockchain Chamber of Commerce and a number of other, Charlie Northrop, if anyone knows, Charlie, who was the founder of e-commerce and has developed solutions on self-sovereign identity, Michael Darden, he was just a whole litany of people, and I finally got to Hedera, Hedera hashgraph, and really excited about it. I'll post links to all of this in the chat. Got to Hedera. It's a consensus ledger, it's a consensus algorithm. The transactional costs, both financial and environmental, are less than what we see on the Visa network, and they launched a billion-dollar foundation, but it's still, you know, it's still OPP, it's still other people's platforms, you know, they have a governance council and, you know, all the things that you want from a technology company, right? But, you know, transparency and ethics and explainability aren't enough to build democracy. I mean, this is, you know, this is the Jedi Council, right? This is the, you know, the well-meaning WC-3, the standards bodies. This is not how we build something from the bottom up. And so then I got introduced to a fellow named Subbu Joyce, who was at Hedera and left and built from the ground up a platform called Autograph, and it's a triple ledger, you know, distributed system built in many of the same ways as Hedera, but still, you know, like my, where I've gotten to is that we can't just build a solution for a human network. We have to build it with them. They have to understand it. They have to trust it. It has to be integrated with the human network in order for these, you know, these arches to come up and meet each other. I have a visual that I will share on this about these three pillars. And then, you know, in a conversation just like three days ago, you know, I started engaging with the anonymous, you know, genius, precise, on-the-spectrum inventor of BitLattice, and I'll share a couple of links on that. And I finally saw something like that, oh gosh, this is where we can start. Like we need a different starting point. And so that's where we are with BitLattice. I've been engaging in conversation with them, and you know, they've, and I just, you know, I'm pronouns minor, eschee of gender fluid.  So they, you know, they're genius. We've been talking, there's some things I disagree with, but need to explain. But I think that BitLattice could be that bedrock on a ledger side. And in fact, what we're calling our ledger initiative is ledger, L-E-J-E-R, ledger for equality, sorry, ledger for equity, justice, and economic rights, because it becomes more than just a distributed ledger for an education system, a learning system, it really, it's how do we look at a different kind of value exchange model. My work for a long time has been on blended value initiatives, and, you know, social return on investment analysis and those things. And then, you know, if we are able to build ledger, then on top of that, what evolves is what we're calling Daphne, and Daphne is the knowledge network. It comes from the Greek myth of Apollo and Daphne, where Daphne was transformed into a laurel tree to escape the lustful pursuits of Apollo. But Daphne stands for distributed application, human network exchange. And it becomes, you know, sort of the ecosystem. That's, you know, this Daphne quest is where I ended up, I think, Jerry, where you're in my conversation started, looking at knowledge network and some of those things. Yep. Thanks, Michael. That's a nice background for the different moving parts, and we can come back to it, but you get to ask anybody you want the question right now. Ah, hmm, let's turn into a game show. It's kind of cool. Yeah, it is. Stacey, you know, I'm interested in games. We've been exploring things with games for change and game designers, and I've been thinking about our augmented reality work is like a Pokemon go for learning that's owned by kids, by all the kids in the neighborhood. How are you thinking about game development and like distributed application organizations? Is that too much to ask? Oh, you're on muted. So yeah, some of that is, but let me be clear, I'm more interested in what motivates people to engage. So instead of game, I think I'm really more about play and what makes people want to add to it and create. So I'm interested in what you're talking about very much so, but I don't know that I could help more than that. Yeah, then let's maybe talk about that. We have a situation right now with return to schools where people are talking about the solution to learning loss is high intensity tutoring, which brings to mind gavage, where they, you know, nice. Everybody know what a vage is forced feeding of geese to make foie gras. Yeah, and yeah, that's the opposite of play, right? And yeah. So how do you get people who are just so focused on like, Oh, drill and kill to in whatever form that is to stop and say, Hey, we gotta do this differently. You know, I've been thinking a lot about that, because I've been watching myself, and I think a lot of it has to do with where a person feels they could actually add value. If that makes any sense. I have to think more on that. I don't know that I could just answer. Yeah, no, fair enough. I just that's a big question. And just a pro foie gras, because I think you just sort of reached into your mind and pluck that out. But it's really interesting because there's a TED talk by Dan Barber about a chef who loves foie gras and hates gavage, he hates sort of the torturing of geese. So he went and bought a piece of land in Spain that was beautiful and turned it into paradise for geese. And he makes sure that lots and lots of geese come and fatten up on their own, on their own dime on his piece of territory, any harvests a few and sells off that foie gras, which has become prized among chefs. So I've used this metaphorically to say, how do you how do you create, you know, heaven for blank for programmers, for kids, for people trying to solve the world situation, which is a bit of a macabre metaphor, because you're going to harvest them. But I don't mean the harvesting of organs or people. I just mean, how do you create a place so enticing that people want to come and play in the way that Stacey is talking about. And I think a part of that is about making hard work playful and enjoyable together and but focusing on difficult things. And I'm, I'm really struck by how many trivial things we're wasting our freaking time on these days. And I would love if we spent a third of those cycles on meaningful stuff. And so there's an interesting, interesting bridge there. Yeah, there's also this, you know, this concept of abundance, right? This, and right now, you know, in our digital world, where everyone's doing their best to create artificial scarcity, because that's the economic model that people understand. Cool. So Stacey, you get to ask anybody a question or answer as you were just about to. I was just going to say something about I see recycling in there, like just reusing and recycling. Yeah, I'll just I have a question now to think of a question. Geez, my God, I'm going to go back to this answer about education. One of the things is looking at the emotional state of the learner while they're learning. That's a big deal. And that's saying that that I can speak to. Because when I'm nervous, like now, I can't think. But when I'm just doing and being and I'm in the flow, I can talk for hours. So Stacey, there's a there's a cheat for this game. Which in in good play, like, and education now that I think about it, although you have to watch with what you have to be careful with education. Cheating artfully is is not necessarily a bad thing. You know, cheating gets a bad rap and sometimes rightfully so. But art artfully bending the rules of the game so that so that something more productive happens is is not necessarily a bad thing. So the cheat. And by that, I don't mean a bad thing. I mean a good thing for this game is to ask somebody a question where you know they were where they talk about that that topic a lot already. So it's it's a way to so for this game, I think of it as not a way for me to query other people and put them on the spot or learn something I've always wanted to know, but rather for people who are new in the space to hear the things that we always talk about.  But you know that they can tell the story really well. And then maybe that's the question that you ask. So you see, you just you just pointed out saying for me now I know what the goal is. I think the reason it was hard to do it is I was given a task to ask a question, but I'm not really sure in what direction I'm trying to throw the stone. Yep. Yep. What is the what is the 15th prime of 12 or something is like what? And so a question that you might ask is like, since we just did a round of intros, it's like, so Hank, tell us more about positive cartography, which would be kind of a layup for Hank, because you can you can push that button Hank can go. Was that the real question or just an example? I'll use that. I'll take it. That's my cheat. I'm actually say it, Stacy. Actually, I don't even know what he just said. Can you tell us more about positive cartography? Okay, great. Well, I'll tell you I'll tell you the tomorrow's version. Positive cartography is a way to encourage and inspire people to really think about the future they desire to live in and what steps they can take to help realize it. And at the moment, it's a work in progress. It's a prototype in its second phase. But I'm hoping that in the next nine months, it becomes something that's so attractive and compelling to use that will be adapted, sorry, adopted and adapted by people all over the world to help to help them discover what they really want to do in life. How's that? Very aspiration, no doubt. Hank, it sounds a bit like, like motivational interviewing, you know, from, I'm on the, I also happen to be on the journey of recovery from, from, you know, addiction and, you know, it's we're addicted to a certain way of thinking and, you know, is this who we are, is this who we want to be in the mirror? What are we doing? Where are we heading? I, I've been, I dug in last night into aviation graveyard spirals and the physics behind that and instrument flight readings.   We are collectively in a trauma fueled graveyard spiral now. Totally. That's, that's very interesting. I'm not familiar with motivational interview and I'll, I'll try to learn more about it. The, the, it could be very similar. The prototypes for positive cartography at the moment involve people who join a session because they know me or they know someone in the network who's joining it, but they're not a real community. And ideally it's being developed for communities to work to find out together what they want because I think if anything's going to change in the world, it's not going to be just individuals doing it in their own ad hoc ways, but communities doing the things that are important to the communities together. So it might be very, very interesting to, to have a look what this motivational, motivational, interviewing, interviewing is. Yeah, thank you. Ah, okay, I have a question. I have a question. I have a question. Well, okay, let's, let's, let's throw as they say in Dutch, I live in the Netherlands. As they say in Dutch, let's throw the rooster in the, the, the henhouse. Jerry, Jerry, if you had a magic wand, and you had 30 seconds to decide which of all the ambitions and aspirational ideas that you've been discussing with this group in the last year or more, you could realize tomorrow, which would that be? Does the wish include changing people's hearts or does the wish just include like putting things in motion? Because if it's changing, I know if it's changing people's hearts, it's like, I would cause, I would cause some mechanism to, to help like half the world's population learn to design from trust and to redesign all of our institutions organically from, from wherever they are in whatever way they are, because that would solve a whole bunch of issues that would just bubble up and bubble down and go all over the place. So, so I'll put a link to design from trust on that in the chat, but I would do that. Thanks for the question. Good question. Um, Mr. Grossman, since we have two Michaels. What's the thing that excites you most about the possibilities for the people who are trying to serve with the company you have started and other neighboring ventures or ideas? It's interesting because it, it, there's a way in which it ties in with the, the quote that, that I heard, you know, probably not exactly correctly from, from the other Michael that we were just exchanging about it in chat. Um, the thing that excites me most is the idea that everyone, well, everyone is a tall order, but as many people as possible and a growing number of people have, have informationally a view of their own instruments and a sense of control of what they're, what, what they see, you know, being able to filter out the noise, what they save and sort of make a part of them and what they share and with whom, um, you know, setting up mechanics for people to have that sense of control and focus over what they do and who they do it with and, and, you know, who permeates their, their field of focus. Um, just that idea seems so grounding and important to me that that's, that's the thing that excites me most, I think. Um, cool. Thank you. And it's interesting also how the, sounds like sort of a cockpit view of information in the sense that, uh, resonates.  That wouldn't be good. Um, they were having trouble with, with, uh, navy pilots landing on aircraft carriers at night as many years ago when this was a new thing. And they realized that the navy pilots were so freaking worried about landing on a little postage stamp in the middle of the ocean and otherwise dying that they were looking at the, at the, at the aircraft carrier and fixating on it. And then the sort of negative spiral happened, but also the, the image of the aircraft carrier was imprinting on their retinas so that as they looked around, they were disoriented that the image was moving with them instead of the actual carrier. So they had to train them to look away and glance back, uh, on their, on their approach and figure out, you know, orient themselves better and differently. Yeah, Jerry, interesting. My father was a F4 fighter pilot, um, and flew the last squadron of the F4s built the navy. Um, they had, um, you know, the, the first with look at lock on sighting and had a early heads up display. And so I think a lot about that. And I think about like, like that was augmented reality, right? What, what, what's the power of augmented reality? Give us that information in context, um, in our communities. Yep. Yep. Well, that. And, and we have target fixation in lots of different ways, metaphorically in our lives. So I think that the, you know, the whole flying lessons broadens out nicely into, into the rest of our lives. Michael, you want to ask a question or something else? Oh, please, Stacy, jump in. I wanted to ask more currents of the same question that Hank asked you, Jerry, which is, if you could, you know, in 30 seconds, what would be the thing that you would like to see come into realization? Going to run out of fingers really soon. Can you expand on that? Peace in the Middle East. No work. So this is just your, your wish list for, for global harmony in some sense. So it's interesting that Mark should mention peace as part of this pathway embedded is my work in peace studies and conflict resolution. And, you know, it's, it's how do we create a pathway from conflict to peace? Because that's what we're experiencing now. And so, and you know, I've a very close Palestinian friend who we talk about this quite a bit. You know, there's the Arvinger Institute's work, if you're not familiar with them, which came out of Middle East conflict is, is work that Cecily and I have been turning to, we turned to last week. So, you know, it is, it is related. Mark, do you want to ask anybody a question? Hi, Stacey. Thanks for that question. Let's see. Has anybody not been asked a question? I don't, I have. Pete has not been asked a question. Pete, this is like the Oracle of Delphi, not him having been asked a question a little bit. What's your favorite color? It used to be blue when I was a kid. And now I don't really have a favorite color. I sometimes contemplate about that. So I like, I like the fact that colors exist, but I'm not particularly attracted to one color. Thank you. I asked that. My best answer that I got was the color of water, which I had never thought of before. It's like an incredible answer. But thank you. The answer to the question, why is the sky blue and why is water blue, is like freaking fascinating because they're not, neither of them is naturally actually blue. It's all about molecular reactions and light and all that kind of stuff. And I, I know nothing about the physics of it, but it's just like fascinating. I'm going to jump in just because the way things worked, I didn't get to ask a question because Stacey asked Mark, the question from Hank, when I would have asked my question. So I'll throw out a question for Michael, who I don't think has gotten a question. Have you? Or did you? Did we start with you? Yeah, I think it started with me. I don't think I got a question. Okay. Then never mind. I'm good. No, no. Yeah, maybe I asked the first question. I lost track. Sticular navigation? Okay. I'm surprised you haven't heard that about that, right? Sticular navigation. I like that term. It's very literal. Yeah, it is literal. And I think about like, with augmented reality, right? Are we going to have just Sticular navigation, right?  Or like, this is the sign for texting. Like, what's going to be when we're talking about augmented reality? Like, do this? Yeah, augment me. Okay. So we've gone through three quarters of our time together. And I'd love to do a brief conversation either about Bitlattas or about some other aspect of building OGM sort of stuff. And I do like just Sticular navigation. And the gesture interfaces, the original interface was the point and grunt interface. I heard someone say long and go, which I really liked. What was the first time, Jerry? Bitlattas, which is partly what brought Michael into this conversation, because he pinged me yesterday about conversations he's having with a person named hybrid or hybrid. I don't know exactly how to pronounce it. And is working with a blockchain alternative named Bit, whose research is in this blockchain alternative called Bitlattas, as a distributed ledger technology. And then lots of different DLTs distributed ledger technologies. And so that was part of the question. And now that we've got a bit of a gathering of geeks, I thought maybe we'd go back into the topic for a little bit. And before we escape testosterone poisoning, one of my beliefs is that most of the world's problems are caused by TMR, which is probably politically incorrect these days, but TMR is testosterone-induced mental retardation. This goes back a long ways. Also, I mean, think about this. What are the axes that we, what are the things that induce aggression? And I've been digging into Curtin's adaption, adaption innovation continuum. I'll put some things in the chat on that. But it looks, it's a framework, sort of psychometric framework that I've been exploring deeply over the last couple of months. And it's the reason why marketers say new and improved, that some people want new and some people want improved. And that's hilarious. Yeah. And it's, you know, I'll put more in. It's really interesting. I think it's also instructive, not just from like a descriptive, but from an actionable perspective, like in a world where people are feeling out of control, where people are feeling, I've talked about this pandemic of powerlessness. How are they responding differently? We can say there's the male-female access, which as someone who believes gender is a construct, I'm not really fixated on that. But this adaption innovation thing, I think, is really interesting access for looking at, you know, how we, how people respond to difficult situations. Thank you. I'd forgotten I'd ever seen that. And so it's interesting to sort of rediscover that in my brain and something else we can do. And whatever links you put, it'll be interesting. Go ahead, Michael. I'm just very curious about that concept of the idea, and I may be misinterpreting you, Michael, but the notion that there are two desirable things, that thing we've never seen before, that's the magic bullet that's going to solve everything in a way that nobody else ever has. And that thing with deep roots in all the things that have come before it, that is a perfection of something that people have been working toward that's, you know, built on the shoulders of everyone. And once the first is kind of messianic, and I feel like you see a lot of it in the tech world of, I've got this thing, nobody's ever thought of it. And so many of us are trying to, like, pull the threads together, which is much, much harder in a way, and also is fraught with the, yeah, well, but this was, there are people in the past who have thought some good things, but do we want to build on the shoulders of people who we now look at, questioningly, because of their white male European-ness or, you know, they're just, both are fraught. Like, for one or the other, it's just interesting.  I am, as I imagine many of you are, like, you know, two plus standard deviations from the mean on the innovative side, but I've spent my career working in those adaptive neighborhoods and situations and systems. And our education systems are, are built for adaption, right? They're actually built to help people adapt to the world as it exists. Meanwhile, you know, technology is racing ahead. And so, like the response to trauma, right, you know, it's just, let's do disruptive innovation. Education is like, screw you, we are disrupted enough. Thank you. Right. And so where does that leave us? Crypto, right? You know, I've been calling crypto Kudzu. It's a non-native invasive species. I mean, DeFi is the future, but like decentralized monetary policy is a, it's a ticking time bomb.  It's pretending to be centralized. It's Alitas. It's autocratic. All these horrible things. We can fix it, but we have to do it with people and not for them, right? Artificial intelligence. We're seeing that same thing, right? AI racing ahead instead of building it with, you know, cognitive neural networks. It's this, it's this separation. It's rocket ships and bridges. Right. And, you know, during the pandemic, we see billionaire space parents going to space powered by our data and their rocket ships.  Sorry. How do we get there? I love that comparison. Thank you, Michael. The question of the difference in actual knowing how to do something and knowing how to organize to do something, we know how to go to Mars. We don't know how to fix the elementary school system in America. It's such a different kind of problem. And why I would make everybody learn design from trust and implement it is that it would actually flip the education system, among other things. So trust. Let's just put a pin in that word and come back. Sorry to interrupt, Mark. Okay. I'm asked, can I ask you to expand on that, Jerry? Because I'm unfamiliar with why that work or. Oh, sure. So there's a nice story here. I got radicalized on this 25 years ago when Doc Searles mailed me in the physical mail, an issue of The Sun. I'm pretty sure it's physical mail. The Sun was a reader contributed journal and it had an essay and it called The Six Lessons School Teacher. Yeah, I used to, yeah. And the Six Lessons School Teacher by John Taylor Gatto says, nominally, I'm your high school English teacher. Let me show you what I'm actually teaching your children. I'm teaching them that they're how to conform little machines in the cog that I am God in the classroom. All these things about what became known as the hidden curriculum of schooling. He was a big advocate of unschooling. Right. So I started reading, looking up on schooling and diving into that and realizing that we don't trust kids to be curious. We don't trust kids to learn. We don't trust anybody in the system. So we build a coercive system that forces every kid into a classroom that's 20 to 50 kids big with kids that happened to have been born within six months of each other. We create scarcity at every turn in the educational system because of the lack of trust, because there's so many kids and there's so much to learn. And oh my God, the only way you're going to actually get that done is through these coercive practices to force everybody into boxes to then march in lockstep. So we teach everybody more or less. And luckily there's lots of experimentation now with other things. But if you sort of trusted the system and then figured out how to, there's always going to be breaches of trust, always, always, always. But if you start with trust and design that system and scaffold learners of any age to go learn shit and then figure out how to have sages at the side available who say, you know, it smells like you're going to want to learn this thing over here and this thing over there. Would you consider that? Because otherwise people don't learn, they don't know what they need, but they don't know what they don't know. So, you know, we need mirrors and all that. But we could redesign the entire educational system if we started from trust. And then you can lather rinse repeat that on every sector of the human economy and activity. And that's my thesis with design from trust. And if you go to design from trust, you'll see a couple of videos. And if I could wave a magic wand, I would teach everybody that and help them implement it. Because everything else I'm doing with mind mapping and whatever else is nice to have, but doesn't change anybody's mind, really. Cool. Yeah. Sudbury schools, unschooling. Unschooling is a lousy, lousy term because it's a negative. Self-directed education is a nicer term. There's a bunch of other ways of looking at this. But I got radicalized on that. And then, sorry, and then that opened me up to the idea that, oh, wait a minute, this is really about trust. And once you have a little taste of this trust thing, so the reason I use Wikipedia as an example a lot is that when people realize that Wikipedia was designed from trust, they have this little light bulb go off in their head.  It sounds impossible and it works. And I think they have this little feeling of how do I get more of that? But they don't know what other institutions have this little dynamic in common with Wikipedia. And there's tons. I have thoughts called examples of design from trust in my brain that I can share out. But there's tons of what I discovered in sector after sector, after sector, after sector, after sector. So Hans Mondermann traffic calming in Holland, who basically says, hey, if you redesign your intersections, so the drivers, pedestrians, drivers, and bicyclists and motorcyclists need to make eye contact or they'll kill each other going through the intersection, which is an act of trust. You actually get the same throughput and a much safer intersection. The accident rate goes down because people actually had to pace themselves to make their way through, et cetera, et cetera. And then I've been, I've been finding examples of this and how it works in the world for 25 years with a couple of distractions along the way. And totally happy to riff endlessly on this in different ways. Would actually like to write a book about this. Would at this point love to have an experimental book that is made up of nuggets that are playlists, that are that are chapters in a playlist that are output by the basically flexible and writing environment that Pete is prototyping. And one reason why I might in fact be interested in shifting over to obsidian to wrap like four previous conversations together is that it might be an interesting place to play with these theses, which sounds so much like feces, it's a word I hate to use. But to play with these theses and, you know, in the open and create artifacts that people recognize, namely like books and podcasts out of out of the mess of ideas. Other than that, I got nothing. So it's interesting that we're talking about design from trust because I was going to wait till the weaving the world call to bring this up. But you keep talking about the secondary project. And I was going to say, you know, we kind of touched on it a little bit, but the idea of starting a production company, but designing it from trust, and just putting it to get bringing in people that are working in that field and sort of simulate a company that would be doing the podcast, but maybe another podcast and then talking about again, designing it. So I can't even tell you how it would work because it would be about the design. And we've together a couple other things. Michael's here because he's talking about bit lattice, the creator of bit lattice published a post about trust that he put in the chat a little while ago so we can scroll back and find it, which starts with Hey, these block tiny things are known as trustless systems. And the hybrid is looking to create something that completely doesn't need human trust. I think I might be misrepresenting here. Yes. And that's what they said. The piece that's missing from that where I will take issue in a careful follow up conversation because when I haven't been precise, it's been brutal. That it's not about it's the people trusting their instruments, right? It's about pilots trusting their instruments. People have, yes, so bit lattice created so that people don't have to trust each other, but people still have to trust bit lattice. And so what are the ways that we get people to do that, right? And we're trusting algorithms, right? It's not that Bitcoin and blockchain are trustless. We're trusting all the algorithms that some mysterious person named Satoshi dropped on us. Right. And the best way to trust it is to be part of creating it, but there are other ways to trust it. Agreed. Which is part of this collaborative, playful generation of stuff. Pete. Michael Robbins. I find I'm a little frustrated with bit lattice because I went to the website, read the technical overview and didn't find any technical overview part. It doesn't say how it works. It just says what you could do with it and why you do it and things like that. So for better or for worse, I love that Jerry thinks that I'm smart enough to know about blockchain and math and stuff like that. I'm actually crappy at math. So we'd end up having the thing that I'm wishing I found is something that I actually probably couldn't read very well because it would be a lot of math and stuff like that. But just a, you know, just a kind of feedback up the chain. I wish I knew more about bit lattice. I don't know very much about it and I can't find much about it and I'm pretty good at finding stuff. And part of this is like our small test on stuff because Pete and I and several others here have seen a lot of software. I am not a geek or a programmer. Pete actually is like a certified card carrier. But there's sometimes you sort of see a project and you're like, oh, I totally get this and you can leap into it. And sometimes you're like, wait, wait, what actually is happening behind the curtain? So I think we, I think we haven't gotten to the conversation we could have about bit lattice, but we've started it. No, I did also just want to add you talked about like creating playlists. So that's what we did with district learning is we created learning playlists. It's focused on a particular pedagogical approach, if I can use that word called connected learning, which is, you know, more than experiential learning. And I'll share a quick thing on connected learning. But, you know, if we're looking, so as I've been like, really like, there are times when I'm just like, I'm ready to give up on trying to explain this to people and like go work on a Commune, I don't know. But, you know, it's like looking at how we could create playlists to explain all these different pieces, but you know, have people, you know, chew through the playlists, I put a link to some of those to some playlists that are really good from the National Writing Project on our LRNG platform that show you some great examples of what playlists can look like. Because I could sit and write a book. I've written, Grammarly told me that I've written 1.5 million words over the last, I don't know, 16 months, right? That's a lot of books, right? But nobody's going to read it. And it's not actionable. So like, I think the playlists may be a way to get people to think about it as from the creator seat instead of the consumer seat. And we're sort of all hunting, we're all trying to find our way to the right set of tools, the right platforms and all that. And Michael, I think your quest is like very similar to our quest. We're like, crap, what do we build this participative collaborative, collectively built environment in, so that it is trustworthy and so that it honors humans and their ability to build trust with one another, and doesn't instead alienate them from each other as I think that blockchain can do easily. The idea that the word trustless is especially with all this really disturbs me a lot. First, because it's actually not trustless, we're trusting the algorithms. But second, because the idea that money plays this role too, money alienates us from each other, because if I give you five bucks, that's the same five bucks you can spend on a burrito down the road, then I don't care, it's arms lengthen, we can forget about each other afterward. And I think we're in an environment where it would be nice if we had a little bit more stickiness. There's a, in some community around the earth, I've forgotten where it is. There's a welcoming ritual where somebody will come greet you and give you a gift that might be bread and salt or something like that. That's a habit in Germany. But then the right way to respond, the right response is not to give them back anything of equivalent value. You want to respond with something of higher or lesser value, because if you respond with something of equal value, you've eliminated the length, the length between you, you've kind of scrubbed the accounts. But by always leaving a little imbalance in what was gifted back and forth, created a relationship, right? It's really subtle. It's really, really interesting. And I love it. Because, because, you know, equivalents, which we think of as, okay, good, that was a fair exchange and now we're done, actually breaks the ties. And you want there to be a little lingering tie in the background, like, oh, yeah, yeah, that, that sort of makes that work. Cranial retentives. That's very funny, Michael. So we've gone, we've slipped over our hour. This has been super juicy and interesting. And thank you for playing on the call. Any sort of lingering thoughts or things to put on the table now? Whenever I hear the word software, I reach for my checkbook. The original quote is, of course, from, I think, Goebbels or whenever I hear the word culture, I reach for my gun. I certainly, as a software developer, do not trust software as far as I can throw it. Not that throwable. I certainly, you know, react in fear, the name of a band. And I certainly come from the punk aesthetic where humans have emotions. Boy, do they have emotions. Some of these emotions are, you know, we had this kind of play of term sacred and sacred rage was what I encountered the next day after that. In connection with Carl Polanyi. So Polanyi, I believe, yeah, sorry. Interesting. Yeah. So that kind of, you know, that's a, I don't want to not look at the dark stuff. My favorite definition of an artist is you don't have to look away. If you're an artist, if I'm an artist, that means I don't have to look away at something that somebody wants me to look away at. And I can't look away at software as a human creation and as flawed as every other human creation. And trust is something that's a variable in that equation. But yeah, I don't trust the blockchain. I don't trust Google. I don't trust the internet. You know, I'm not sure how to react to this expect from the thing I first posted in the chat. The fear song, let's have a war comes from my punk background. It's violent.  Where do you live, Mark? San Francisco, California. I was at a very loud old school punk show in DC last Saturday. I appreciate that, that reality check. Like, you know, look, look, look and you know, put in the earplugs, but just keep going. I almost was able to go to a band that I've known for over 30 years, the Incredible Shrinking Dickies at the Ivy Room in Albany, except it's an amazing band. There's the song Stuck in a Pagoda with Trisha Toyota.  You Drive Me Ape, I want to tell you. And it's this kind of music. And I didn't want to do a line of cocaine to, you know, basically drive to the East Bay and stay up all night. It's not... I can't do that anymore. Yeah. And I chose not to, probably wisely, but, you know, there's the COVID thing about indoors and, you know, singing at the top of your lungs. It couldn't be a spiritual upper. But, huh, motivation and emotion and trust. Jerry, thank you for design with trust. I mean, you said it before, but it didn't stick with me. To actually design from trust, on purpose. From trust, yeah. So you put a pin in that. And so I'll follow into that. I'll thank you and thanks, Stacy and Michael, Michael, Hank, Pete. I'll try to wake up earlier tomorrow. Awesome. Thanks, Mark. Anyone else? A wrapping word? You don't have to say it in rap? I just want to try to weave what Mark was saying or weave into what Mark was saying about the, about, well, let me, let me see if I can put this in words. I'm thinking about, I'm still thinking about the intersection between your instruments and your control of your own space and view of external space and that the sovereignty of your, and knowledge of and trust in your mind, your instruments, your, your purview, your knowledge purview is kind of a prerequisite for trust in the sense that, you know, to be able to, to be able to, to also filter out words to say, I am going to design from trust with trust through design, sorry, from, yeah, from, from trust about this with these people because I know, I feel that direction. I know myself on this. I have learned from the sharing from those other people as the other people on this and we have this avenue for trust because of it that we wouldn't, if we were, or we wouldn't come to as easily if we were in the noisy, unfiltered, non sovereign space that we too often inhabit, inhabit or are forced into. That's my thought. I did a little video about why it's from not for trust. Thank you. Yeah, Michael, what I heard you saying in there is that trusting is also trusting yourself. Which we've been taught not to do as well. Yeah, like socialization. The socialization we grow up in, which we are trained to think of as the pinnacle of civilization is really devastating. I mean, like we're socialized to become good consumers and to not trust ourselves and to not think we're ever beautiful or good enough. We have a very harsh, cruel kind of culture that we take as being this this paragon of virtue and the peak of civilization. It's like very strange. I also just want to add, Jerry, when you're giving that example of when the people slowed down that there's more to that. It's also the eye contact. It's not just that they slowed down. That caused the less, you know, it's having to look at somebody. Yep. Yep. That's right. So on the design from trust site, you'll find an essay called the two oh shits, which I really like. And it's basically there's checkable responses when a human meets a system designed from trust. And I'll plot spoiler my apologies leave now if you don't want to have this spoil for you.  This couldn't possibly work.  What fool had that idea? What do you mean you're taking away stop lights and traffic lights and that somehow is going to make the traffic better?   How do I get more of this? Like, wow, that's insane. Like this really works. Cool. Well, gentle friends, I think maybe time to wrap this call. This club meets regularly on Tuesday mornings. Michael, thank you for joining us. Thanks for taking up the invite. And yeah, more soon. Yeah. Well, rugby like rugby is a controlled brawl, right?  I remember there was a bumper sticker wound in my in my undergrad give blood play rugby. So it's I guess it's not that non violent after all. No, yeah. It's it's pretty damn violent. I've been in the middle of that. Yep. I did some work in Australia in 2016 and became a fan of the all blacks. So one of my guilty pleasures is watching all blacks on YouTube. Yeah. And I've also then become a fan of a hawker. So just just so everybody knows like when I pass part of my instructions are I'd love there to be a hawker at my whatever, even a virtual and be fine. Rohan Light, who I think I may have connected with Jerry in Wellington, New Zealand, would be a marvelous participant in this discussion as well. I know we don't want to but I'll I'll let me just let's start by me putting his his info on the chat. He and I have been talking for months and just amazing a lot about ownership and Indigenous societies talking about first Americans and the Maori. Okay, that sounds beautiful. And I don't think I don't remember his name. So I'm not I'm not sure you've mentioned him. Yeah, I'm okay. Let me just sorry quickly here. Yeah, thanks. That's perfect. See you, Stacey. I'm going to listen in the background. Rohan Light, thank you. Fabulous. And and all that those ways of thinking about ownership differently and about trust differently are essential to this place we're moving into. And one of the things that scares me a lot is that so much of the energy of this place we're moving into is Mark Zuckerberg's vision of the metaverse is Satoshi's vision of cryptocurrencies and blockchains is about trustlessness is about a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't feel connected in the ways that I feel like it needs to be. So I'm I'm wondering who's actually doing the connecting. One of the reasons I like Arthur Brock and Holochain is that some of the relationship sort of factors into how Holochain stores and remembers stuff, which I like. Oh, cool. Thank you. Hakkas are beautiful. Hakkas are like moving. It's an honor to receive a haka. Yeah. So thanks, everybody. Have great days. Thanks for starting yourself with such fun, Pete. Really appreciate it.