TLO what's poppin? We are on twitch. We are not live But you can leave a like comment subscribe turn on your post notification bells man Let's continue to grow the family from Chicago to the UK If you do miss alive and you want to see some of the mind your mental things that be said It'd be on here to let one live. That's the channel links down below. We do got the discord rolling Oh, that's the link to the discord. That'll be down below and Patreon Everything that we can't watch on YouTube watch it on patreon and the good shows Let's get into this though. I can't have this on my daughter's Britain's most violent prisoner Shane Taylor tells his story I'm trying to think if we done a documentary on Shane Taylor before I don't think so I Don't remember him being the most violent prisoner, but maybe we have Hour and 25 minutes, so I got my sandwich. I got something to drink This is by anything goes with James English podcast Let's subscribe Let's leave a like Because I do I practice what I preach, you know, I practice what I preach. Let's get into it though I think this was in the discord. I say Boomer on today's guest Shane Taylor, how are you? I'm good. Good to see you having a son. Yeah, thanks for coming on Yeah, you were dubbed once Britain's most violent prisoner. Yeah, you had I do think I remember Mindset of killing people stabbing people robberies really struggled you've put in segregation units causing rights in prisons But first of all, how are you? Yeah, I'm good Yeah Getting there That's a great segue Sean. You were a killer. You was robbing you cause of riots. You was just you was thugging in there But how are you? Good to see you smiling. Yeah, man, but if you did it in a moment.  Just a learn from him. Help me grow and then you've got a book yeah, Shane The true story of one in Britain's most dangerous prisoners and where can people buy this book? We'll plug it straight away. He's on Amazon or eBay at the minute. Yeah, perfect and the DVD and the DVD Yeah, good man.  Yeah, but we'll get into about it brother. Where you grew up and how it all began Yeah, so well, I was born in Middlesbrough.  No, I make sense Just never fitted in never felt loved and then sort of went down a route of finding a couple of friends who I fitted him with and Going in in the early 90s in the northeast of England. It was huge for joy riding Pinching cars get the helicopter out of 20 cars behind you and get chasers Hanging out the windows and that and all their estate with Chi you're on and that's what we did all the time And you know because we were so young at the time No, we only used to be able to pinch metrose Mini metrose because we couldn't snap them because they were too strong for us So we just fly about in little metros and take chasers and what's that macros? Start a burgling houses and and just we'll become what the police call an opportunist thief And so you just go out and whatever you come across you'll do So if we went around the back of the shops and saw the back door open We'd creep in and start grabbing all of that's the worst type of things man Opportunist type thing because you can't leave nothing out by them like dang You stole my shoelaces out my shoes like man Like children box the clothes and stuff like that or whatever and I remember once This one I was really young I got sent to her home because back in the day They couldn't do what they do now you all they could do when you're under 15 under 16 they could just send you to like a Like a foster parents or a home like a and they sent us to this place in Durham I met this lad from Bishop Auckland. We ran a waste great We was only there two hours and when we went to these shops We went on the back and they're all it was closing time.  They must have just emptied the safe or something It was about 10 grand or 12 year old I was another man seeking imagine how much I was buzzing And then I'd just been bragging that I was the best talker and all I'd never drove a car at the time But I was bragging because I sang about with all the lads who did and he was like I will go and buy a car my heart sank I thought I can't even drive and I remember one of my mates saying to me because I used to like jerk No, I was pulling off and stall the car I remember mate saying just put the rev right down just let the clutch off fast and you'll just spin off So I just saw did that and every corner I come to I was doing that though Decided to go through the middle bit to see me auntie and ended up taking a big massive chase all down the wrong Way the motorway and everything and that was at age 12.  How's the start of that? No, that was not as that was just The start was it was at the start of it was a phone box when the swimming baths and we saw like it Was like open a little bit know the box where the money goes into it was full to bring with pound coins So we went and got like a screwdriver thing and popped it open took all the money got caught Cried our eyes out and knocked out.  I would they would try all different ways and I remember once The teachers and back in the again in the 90s, it's different now Because we've got all sorts of stuff and what they recognize and I bought the time the teacher was trying to tell me something to teach me something and I couldn't like I Couldn't get it and one day went well all the others can do it Are you thick and all this class laughed at me and at that point? I was scared that I'd be laughed at like that again. So when I couldn't do any of my work I would jump open instead of like being in that position where the teacher's gonna say something to laugh up So the class can laugh at me. I remember I would pick up a chair and you bounce it off the wall I'd pick up a chair and chase the teacher and it was my fear of being made a joke out of and laughed laughed at So instead of that I would rather just play open and guess who put that fear in him a teacher You see how crazy the world is a A teacher instilled fear in you which made you react a certain way When called upon and couldn't answer a question in class This happens a lot and not just in the UK and America Across the world.  So I just played open play it up. I got Expelled from every school and then I ended up going to a boarding school called El Amor Hall and it's a it's designed for naughty kids Basically and I went there and yeah, I was expelled At the end of that they just I was pinched. I was getting the lads down to pinch You got expel from the school for expel kids Teachers cars and everything man and the teachers knew and it would come to me and say no Do you know such and such from Peter Lee?   You know as a kid. You don't if you don't want to fight back You're scared. You don't want to fight back to you So I become a bit like I wouldn't tell me parents because I knew if I went in and said such and such it hit me They'd be dragging me around and telling me they have to hit them back and I was scared there at the time So I didn't I just kept everything to myself and then just went through like obviously feeling left out and We've parents been a little bit rough and they're not in the bad way like a bit rough as in like out and fight back stuff like that But the biggest thing for me is Being bullied. So I used to always get picked on cost like a chased open school I had courage in your hair at the time freckles all over. I was just soft skinny and they were just Just everyone took liberties out of me and then so I remember once in school Stood on my own and this lad come over with the group like how you can come play with us And I was proper buzzer because that's just I went over on the play yard And when I went up and they're all set around me and one of them She went whack and just punch me in the nose pop my nose open and I just ran off screaming And so that was what I was going through all the time and What do you do with that as a kid? Not feeling feeling like you're part of the family not feeling like you're left out. Just felt like You feel a left out at home You couldn't fit in with the kids at school Then the teachers was telling the teachers weren't making it any better Can I fit it in wasn't loved wasn't like even though I was loved. We didn't feel like I was yeah No, so either yeah, just didn't feel loved at all When did you start getting it the violent mindset where you wanted to kill people stab people you started getting a buzz for that How did that start? It's well it started off when we just become a big game having me first fight back at about 15 maybe a little bit older and People started giving me attention then like talking to me.  I just stand up I just remember feeling it's like rush and I thought oh yeah when I kill people and so I used to This has got to be mental health. I think because I would you mean you think you never want to got this doctor. You never want to sit down with nobody sit and We put that scene on over and over again and just watch it I mean mates would come in and I'd be like watch watch watch. She says watch. Oh, can you see it? Did you see you going and they'd be like sat there like all right then Shane It's been like 50 times now. Do you know what I mean to be called and then I would just start Daydreaming like I'd finger am I blurry Pete am I blurry or Another one of me. See I had a twisted mindset of a gangster So to me a gangsters then the ones in the background nobody knows about They're not enough for a reputation They've probably got millions and millions of pounds in the bank and they really could get you shot like that if the if the hat though I thought being a gangster was somewhat like when you watch a two-pack film Do you know the main way you drive down drive down your big chain on or you know the main and people just feed you I couldn't organize a tea party. No, I couldn't Honestly, I couldn't but I just had this mindset that if everyone fees you it means you're a gangster But it's not true.  Yeah, then Try to get fear. So how it was the first time you'd feel that people were scared of you If you're going to build or scale a real business, there's a super useful site that can do almost all Okay, this is what I wanted to do is don't fear any people it was after I stabbed the man in the head so I Was an art people as a man with a big reputation and a lot of people fear him to this day and in fact, I think he's doing a life sentence now and He's well known for like run around everyone's face and walks in pictures dales houses takes the jugs I don't say a finger. I'm absolute psycho. He's been in and out of jail for stabbing people of all his life In fact, he just getting out of prison because someone had Someone wouldn't serve him in the shop. So you walked out the shop got the know them big things What you do with a corn whiff like the grim reaper things went in one of them put up through his head You said somebody wouldn't serve bro in a shop, and he went and got the he wouldn't got the hook the grim reaper That's seven or eight. Yeah, just because he wouldn't serve him That's how nuts he was and me and him come across each other and you know, we'll not talk about our whatever But we come across it each of her in the town center in Hartley pool brought her to a total standstill He pulled out. He pulled out a hammer. I pulled out a Nine-inch kitchen blade he ran at me Smack me across the top me and as he smacked me.  Anyway, I can't remember it because I used to at the time when I had my problems I used He's still alive So I Just remember starting everything and then people I'd wake up I'd wake up like half an hour after not even know what happened and out So what I'm telling you is from the depths and from the witness statements and from your friends who were there because I can Only tell you how it started but what they said is hey low key. I hate running into people like that That blackout and can't remember nothing Like now good you be black it out Listen You got it brother. He hit me with her thing.   I have to say you've done it wasn't yeah What was that feeling once just can you remember putting a knife in his head not on that one? I can't but when I've stabbed when I stabbed a different person. I felt it all I felt a go in I felt come out. I felt the feeling the feeling to me was Like being on drugs Stop right there. Let me stop you right there Shane Let me talk to my crap my audience Y'all know what I be saying all the time when I be listening to these UK drill songs and and these people that be stuck like Yin and Yang in people and Shooing It take a different type of mindset to do that this is the this is the mindset that I'm talking about But where he at You are who I'm talking about or you was who I was talking about You are him That mindset is you Go ahead man. It's continue, bro It was And it was more not the going in it was when it was coming out So when I stabbed them the second person or stopped it's sort of like when in his chest in here Straight through but when I pulled it out it it was like a feeling like a And and actually I remember in reminds I now like it was yesterday because I remember I even saw the knife going But because there was no blood this is what I struggle I don't know why this happened But I'd stabbed them the knife went in pull the knife out and then he was like there was no blood and I was questioning I went to stab him again. So I thought I missed for almost I went under his arm or something I just saw it go in though But there was no blood and then I was stood there went to do it again And all of a sudden he just sort of went flip fainting and he just dropped back and then There was more blood out than I can imagine. It was just like a tap It's almost like I just had a tap on it was just coming down the steps Just just just just flown down and oh, yeah, I've got him now And I knew and then two lads jumped off the steps and They basically pulled out these knives that look but there was just like little pocket knives.  He's gonna come forward then I'll swing round and I'll get him in his tent.   You have the guts and the nearly swore there.    I would hate for that g-lot to go off like I'll just play.  How old were you, Shane? At that point, flipping an egg. Young as, I can't remember. I don't... Do you know what? Because of...  I don't know me ages. I don't... I can give you a guesstimate. Talking about 18, 19, something like that. I don't know. It's that boy, man. Yeah. Kid. Kid.  Did you make yourself mentally ill? Were you already battling from ages of 7, 8, 9, 10? Or was it once you got your teenage years being bullied, being vulnerable? Is that what made you snap to be a psycho, basically? I guess it was... It was a way to put it... What's your name, my boy? My bad. That was a way to put it, James. He was not sugarcoating it. He was a psycho. In my life, but when I look back on it, is that part of mental health when I was feeling like I'm... Because people did love me. But not feeling like I fitted in. No rejectives. And feeling like... At all the time, is that a part of mental health? What was just ready to grow? Because if you've got people who love you, you've got your mum and dad, you're in a nice home, you're not being abused or everything's right for you. So why are you feeling like that? So I could... You could say, because I'm not a psychiatrist, you could say that was part of something to... Me personally, I feel like if you haven't... What I'm getting from this is you haven't been diagnosed and you haven't sat down with nobody. I don't know where any of this aggression went to, but you need to make sure that it's gone. Because the way you're telling these stories is like you feeling good. Check it out. Yeah, but I do think there's a lot of the bully and people taking a mick out of me and just stuff like that was a snapping point. Definitely. Because I do remember when I had my first proper fight and I do remember, like, I got to this point where I just thought, I'm sick of this. I've had enough of this. And I remember making this little thing in my head as well, which I didn't think was going to come true at the time. And I made a pact in my head and I thought, one day no one's going to pick on me again. Everyone's going to fear me. And I didn't think nothing of that, but I used to keep you peaking it. And then there was a point before I got game where the people who used to pick on me, and like, when you're saying people used to pick on me, I'm like 12, 13, 14, they're like 18, 19, 20-odd-year-old, using it to get through the little windows and that for them and just scorn a grand or two and they're giving you 50 quid and you're buzzing because you're only a kid, but they ripped your off and mugged your off really. Well, I used to, after so long, I remember being sat in his house and there was two of the lads who used to pick on me all the time, and one of them jumped up and said, hey, I'll punch you in, I went, go on then. I said, go on. I said, remember, when I get older, I'm coming back. And he was like, what do you mean? I said, do you remember? I'm not going to forget this moment. You won't do it again when I get a bit older. And the other lad went, he means it, mate. He means it and he didn't do nothing to me. Well, that was like little things that I used to start remembering. I'm coming back. I used to just think that this was before I really went on a one. But I used to think like that and someone would do anything to me. I'd just say, well, I'm... I want to say it's cap. I want to say I don't believe you. But the way you just told that story of two minutes ago, I'm going to go ahead and go on. I don't know him here. I believe you, Shane. I'm older.  And that's what I used to do. What was the first thing you got, did you, Shane? Oh. I was... You might not believe this, but I was 15, 14 or 15. I'm talking about we might not believe it. You've been saying some unbelievable stuff already. We believe... I believe it. And I was the first person in the North East of England to get section 53'd. What's that? I think it's that or it might have changed. Section 53 is when you're under the age. The... Your journey has a power to give you a certain sentence. So it has to be short. Two year or a year and a half or something like that. If you get section 53's as a young offender, it'll be changed now. This is in the 90s. That gives them the power to sentence you over two year. And when I was 14 or 15, I got sentenced to a three year sentence in the Eclipse Security Unit. And that was because... I haven't even mentioned this. I was burgling a house and I was carrying a knife. A nine inch kitchen blade. And... Your go-to. The police started chasing us. And... The police man set me up. I got in the back garden and he caught me and he searched me and he found the knife on me and he took the knife off me and he told... He made a statement saying that he had to restrain me. He took the knife out and tried to stab him. So I was like... Just another hit, another mock. Ah, that's messed up, man. I can tell you, one time I was... Okay, so I got expelled from school like that. I got expelled from school. I had a... I had a dean or whatever they called it. We had three different deans and I had a dean lady. She was the only one that really understood. You know what I'm saying? Or maybe it's because I couldn't deal with male authority. I don't know, but like... She told me, hey, if you're just having a hard time or something's not going to go, just leave. It's okay, just leave. I'm telling you it's okay. So me and my girl at the time, we got into it. And you know, I just left. I left, minding my business walking. I'm gonna keep it in mind, I'm a senior too. I don't even think I had class right there. Security comes and he grabs me. Like, he's talking to me like, where you going? Where you going? I'm like, yeah, my dean told me I should just leave. He's like, well, I don't know that. I'm like, first of all, I'm a senior anyway. I'm a senior. This is one of those try hard cops. My bad. Try hard security guards. There was a security guard, but during that, like, he was a part-time security guard, but he was a cop. He goes in and he like, and then I start walking away. I was like, well, go talk to him.  So if you got the walkie-talkie accent, so I walk away and he grabs my backpack, grabs it like this, from the back and pulls it. And I'm about the same size I am now, but I'm skinnier. Y'all seen the pictures I posted about skinny. So I reach back, like, try to grab my backpack. I just turn around like this and I'm talking about like this. This is him. And I sweat my pinky. Went like this. And he's like, oh my God, I've been struck by a student. I'm like, I'm like, bro, you serious right now? And I'm like, okay. I'm like, and then, like, I tried to get the camera footage. There's like the cameras too grainy. We can't really tell. I should have sued there. I didn't think about it, but I should have. But then the camera footage became real clear, I bet. But anyway. So when I was on the interview, I didn't realize what I was saying. When I was on the interview, he said, why did you try to stab the officer? I said, I didn't. He said, you did. I said, I didn't try to stab him. I said, well, I wish I did now. So I said, and they looked at each other. That's what I said. That's what I said. I was like, I didn't do that to do, but I wish I would have. I might as well have got my bunnies worth, you know. They went, you don't mean that. I said, oh, I'll do.  Dang! It was almost like when people did things to me, I couldn't let it go. If it took, if it takes five year, 10 year, 20 year, 25 year. Get back home in time, they said. That's a real thing. I could be a 90 year old man, still doesn't stop me being able to do that. So I used the thing. And if people wronged me, especially set me up, I've become hateful, not only to that person, but to their profession.  I want to kill one of you before I die, and that's why we're saying to them. They were going, you don't mean that. I was going, I mean every word I've just said. And so I didn't realize, they're a little bit raw all that. Down that will have been put somewhere as in like a keeper. Yeah, yeah. They will and can and will be used against you in the court of law, buddy. Ha, ha, ha. And Arion, who he's going to end up being. What was it like being in prison for the first time? First time was scary. So I was innately secure with it. Then from that, I ran away purposely so I could go to the D-Ball prison. So I went to the HMP D-Ball to the young, I think I just turned 15, 16, something like that. And I was petrified at first. Absolutely petrified. And then when I went on the wing, I heard a voice and it was like a lad, I know from Pete Lee and then I realized it was about 30 lads who I knew from on the out.  So we had a, I got my first riot. There was only a kid and there was this lad, this lad called Stephen Russell. He gets nicknamed Beaty from Sunderland. And he's like that at the time, skinny as a rake. And we went round the wing, you're for a riot. And they were like, after most of the wing were like, yeah, we're up for it. No thinking we weren't going to. But Beaty, he was like, yeah, I am. And he was the only game one who followed through. But it's funny and the reason why I'm laughing is you'll understand by the story. So I walked over to the pool table and the woman officer was playing pool and I got all the pool balls and put them out. She went, what are you doing? I went, this is a... I'm playing pool. Ma'am. Lad's pool table, what you're doing on this?  She went, no. So I got me, my jumper, put all the pool balls in and started flinging them at the screws. Started flinging them at the telly, everything, flinging them all over. All the officers have come, the riot bells gone off. Little Beaty come running over, grabbed over the pool cue. Ripped his, ripped his top off. Took his top off and he went with the pool cue, went, I'm an animal. And tried to break the pool cue over his leg and he couldn't break it. He's gone. And then the end he just started swinging it and stuff. And that was my first ever riot with Little Beaty and then I got shipped out to a prison called Moulins. HMP Moulins. No, I went to Wetherby. When I was in Wetherby, I ended up there. They were nice for me. And then one day the officer come and I said, I'm on, I'm on I said, I'm on, I'm on I should be getting 12 pound canteen. I said, there's only two pound there. I said, are you taking the PI double S out of me? And he went there or go behind yourself and he had a I just filled the cup up with boiling hot water and I tried to fling it at him and he jumped out the way. Went behind my door barricaded myself up, took my clothes off, put her all over and just started smashing the cell up and waiting for the mufti guy at the corner. He was in there looking like a a buttered potato. That was crazy. That man said, went in there, barricaded myself in, put butter all over I get the reasoning but that's that's funny. There's the picture that was playing in the Scalarius a little bit. And then I got shipped to Moulins. Then I got out. So my prison sentences at that time from 15 onwards was like North Allerton, HMP North Allerton Diabold, Weatherby Moulins and that was the prisons I'd been in at that time. You started young as well before there were as many prisons. So when did you get a sentence when you stabbed that kid in the head? Yeah that was my last sentence so I was in and out all the time remand a couple of months back out but each time I was going to prison I was getting more gamer and then it ended up basically it led to me being in the home house. I went to North Allerton it was ruthless in there can you not remember the Bradford riots years ago, the race Bradford riots? Not sure. It'll be all over the news but that happened so loads of like Asian people and Yorkshire people came into the prison but because there was loads of them I started feeling like we're all together we can take over whatever and I wasn't even bothered I didn't even play pool like Eva so get this on you didn't even play pool but people knew what I was like and they came and got into my head and they were coming over it was like over there I think they're running the jail because they haven't got the guts to do it themselves they come to someone like me and get my head going and I was like and let them think as long as they don't come to me I don't care and then do I like yeah look at them no that was our pool table all in office lads used to be on there Shane what we're letting them do that and they got into my head I went right, leave it with me, I'll sort it out so I just walked over he gives a look at that pool cue cracked, smacked it, went for his head I put his hand up and I snapped his wrist but I jumped into the doorway and when I jumped into the doorway the officers didn't see me and they all started battling with the other lads they ran past all the lads that were fighting and come to me they never seen me do it I did it and got away and they ran past them, dragged me for a sec and that was crazy and then there was another crazy that's what happened with your name whole way they're going to blame you regardless I had from London and I actually have later found out that he's meant to be a bit of a face down there so I will not say but he got shipped out from a riot and they come up north and it was loads of them and he's black lads and he started running around it so in the exercise yard what happens is all the Middlesbrough and all the T side lads over there all the County Durham lads and they'll mingle every now and then but all the main lads from their own area stand together so it was me, Pete Lee lads and he just started running up because he wanted to ship out because he started running up there was about 50 Middlesbrough lads and he ran up to them and they were all jumping back all of them and then he ran up to the Sunderland lads and they were all doing it and he got them in and I just ran over swung a couple of punches and all the black lads jumped up and I thought yeah that's for me and when I looked behind me I heard someone say how is she and we've got your back the whole of the prison was stood behind me these are the ones who were all jumping back and patting themselves they're all stood behind me saying I've got your back and then I went down the seg for that me and him he shouted some stuff out I said I'll see you're back on the wing then went back on the wing and I walked past them and he saw what I did a thing with they're not like it's now the plastic it used to be metal and I just turned around bounced the tree off his head and just started scrapping with him and the screws bro wasn't taking no disrespect at all he was starting everything and taking no disrespect he ain't start this long with that the screws didn't even restrain me because they knew what I was like they went to him and restrained him and told me to get up nicely and took me off what height in that were you then I wasn't I got even bigger I was massive at one point I was ripped up and big full of steroids, weirdo, mentally ill but I'd say at a time when I mentally ill and of you have a royal rage and mental illness that's a crazy that's literally but that's a wild combo I started doing that before I would say I was about I was just running around I don't know what happened to me to be truthful all I remember is I was just a soft person started getting a little big game next thing I know I'm willing to kill everybody literally I'm not one of them and I've always said this you do get a lot of people who carry knives today but they're not willing to kill and if they do, it was all out of fear there's a difference and that might sound crazy that does sound crazy that's the same thing it is in Chicago that's the same thing they say about I'm a blitz poles and whatnot everybody carry a pole but as you really don't you know what I'm saying? and not out of fear just as you really don't get like that so no, it don't sound crazy difference when you have someone who is willing to kill and his whole purpose of having that knife is that he wants to kill and he does not fear one because I've seen people fight with knives or big swords and they're slashing at each other and they're slashing if they had an intention to kill you only have to go over once and just pump straight in his body, pull it out he's going to hit the floor because you've got his organs or he's going to die so slashing the people and getting the outside of the skin for me is you're not intending to kill you're trying to put fear into the other people and stuff like that he's mad a lot he couldn't even quantify it I've been caught I've been what I mentioned is what I've been caught for but stabbings about serious ones about 15 and everyone you enjoyed? everyone loved it I loved everything the fear in the faces the running in the people's houses the only thing that really bothers me is an image I've got in my head upsets me still is I had no, I didn't care about what I did and who was around and I'll never forget this one image when I've smashed in the house with someone else running and knives the fruits and the kids screaming and the mum having hold of the kid in total fear like total, total fear the kids screaming and me pointing the knives shut the fuck up sorry for swearing and just absolutely I can't get that image of the fear out my head especially at that stage willing to kill a few killing some of these kids as well the fear that their mum and dad will also have I wouldn't have done that no in any way killing some of these kids if you stab a kid it's still somebody's son I'm not meaning stab the kid of the parent if you ever came across that kid that you've done that to that trauma could potentially affect them their whole life James is from Liverpool he's a lad he's a fellow scoutser if you don't know I'm a honorary you know so many times I don't even open explain if you're watching this man get this to like I don't know I'm a low baller just give it to 75 likes man I'd appreciate that after time with the people you're doing that too and it's a matter of I'm sitting like this trying to be careful anyway it's a matter of a lot of the times it was me just doing it because I was trying to get a reputation but when you're a bit nuts it's a bit like a fighter when you get someone who's rock hard the local criminals love them a bit of money on the side going to sort your mouth for us but then when you've got nutcases and the people who are offered themselves they want to find the people who are even more offered than them they want to deal with them for them as well so it's a bit like that so sometimes on the odd now and then people will come and say you're going to sort them out for us or even if it was just a close friend I would have done it for now anyway and it was all things like that but the majority of the times was just for me to get my reputation and make people feel me there's always consequences and repercussions how many different presidents have you been in chain? 12 hey funny you might be surprised by this but no we're not surprised it's 680 with my code right I actually need some meal prep I don't know North Allerton Debalt Weatherby Mullins Homehouse Brickston Wakefield and a few of us are you just getting ghosted around because I was mainly going from the dispersal prison going round doing your rounds because once you're in them prisons or top security prisons unless you're the dean you're getting a bit better and safe you can go down but I was always in like Franklin full something along that and Whitemore then I went to Wakefield seg and they wouldn't put me on the wings then I would go back to the seg in Whitemore and years and years in the dispersal prison it was just constantly in the segregation unit were you happy in the seg were you happy in prison because you were away from your own demons you couldn't hurt anybody anymore what was going through your mind just it wasn't that bad he wasn't hurt I wanted to be on the wings especially when you get TVs you can watch EastEnders and that but it was just my mindset was set on this war with the system I detested them for what they were doing and for how it all runs and I was just constantly set on revenge, set on battlin prison officers, set on being an idiot set on fighting people when I could and selling drugs and getting me canteen and getting extra stuff like so I was getting steroids in as well that's all my mind was set on really I wasn't set on in fact I lost the set of getting out at one point didn't even care if I got out I guess that's what you could say give up on everything so when you stabbed the kid in the head what was your sentence for that I got four year and nine month because the charge got knocked so it was attempted murder originally if you're solicited as a good job you get your knocked down you get your murder and I think you got it knocked down to rather section 18 or was it section 20 section 18 or section 20 and I ended up getting four year and nine month and then what you didn't get out you stabbed two corpus or two security guards so when I was in the prison in home house prison I used to love my gym I used to train and I started taking a make and not let me go to the gym one day when they didn't let me out I just knocked on the window to the officer I said why don't you let me out the gym he went oh what a pity and I said I want to get you and he didn't believe me and see my mates who knew me know because I used to have a belief if I say something I have to follow through with it so I used to go to someone man it was a word say what I was going to do because I knew then that if I didn't do it I'd get paranoid and they'd start going like I said he was going to do that he hasn't even done it so I would do that deliberately so I set a plan in motion and went out on association I had a big massive coffee jar about that big and I went out on association with a wrapped in me towel and I went up to these two lads and I told them to go at the end of the wing and talk to the officer and I said when it all kicks off just standing in front of the gates they can't get off the wing there was another lad and I just said right see the officer over there I said chuck the pool balls at him and he had some problems as well and I was like I said just go on just do it and got into his head I said once it all kicks off I'll deal with it so I went and stood up against the wall and to his word he just picked the pool balls up started flinging them towards the officer the officer got up they get off the wing the lads jumped in front of the gates I had no choice but to run towards the lad who was chucking the pool balls at this point I pulled out the jar smashed the bottom off and ran over and just started slashing and stabbing them and then another officer come and I stabbed them as well and that different ball so what they get you for this one because this is like like this is like premeditated as well like don't they get you for that too like it's just not a random to the system so I was done for I think it was I can't remember what I was done for but I ended up getting an extra for your something on top of that as well and again that was the charges were got dropped down and would you ever when you say Zella would you just willing to die in prison or kill someone in prison where you'd have been in the system for your rest of your life? Yeah I lost a feeling of love and care a dark place a dark place to be in because it's a mask you see I just remember it was always a mask I was always like this little horrible this little soft inside didn't really want to do stuff but I had fear of like if I wasn't liked if I wasn't feared I had this fear of not being like that and so I was scared all the time inside so I put this mask on like I was buzzing and just super gay but then I would just all I remember is the dark place I had the mask was I was in a dark lonely place didn't care whether I got released didn't care whether I got out and just totally give up on life like totally like death would have been a good thing You ever saw us either? No but I would put myself in scenarios that could have killed me and purposely but I ain't that thought I'll go out like I'll go out with a bang this is what my mind is like death is good but I'll do it right not cowardly I'll do it in a way where I'll go on a rampage and I'll start killing people stabbing people up all these gangsters or these faces whoever they are and then I'll just go ruthless in the process and I'll leave with a big bang that's my mindset which is crazy so it's like suicidal but not suicidal I couldn't there's multiple ways to be that way you just describe one trying to kill myself because I used to again fear if I did that to myself then died like that then people would be like I see he's an idiot he's a coward so I wanted to go out in a crazy way so if someone stabbed me and killed me it would have been a good thing for me at the time and it would have been a good it would have settled what was in there so how does the prison system because the prison systems treat you like shit anyway but to then stab to prison guards how you treated them in the system totally different ballgame what did it do? brutality did it beat you? sitting you up all the time constant it was just you've got to be saying to you've got to rather be saying or strong because my mindset is strong see I've got this mindset right now I went through five years of on a daily basis brutality set ups winding me up and when you say in brutality I'm talking six or seven prison officers on ride gear running in your cell with ballies on so you can't recognise who they are if you ever come across them again and beating you and beating you and beating you and handcuffing you and beating you and beating you choking you know when they get your neck and just as you think you're going to die and your body goes into a panic letting go they'll let you have a breath and then doing it again and doing that for an hour or something while you're handcuffed up and doing stuff like that and at the end he was torturing you you're still there going come on is that all you've got you can't break me because the system tries to break you when you're ruthless they try and break you down and then they come back and try and build you back up but what happens is some people they get so full of hate when you're trying to break them down that's it they're lost I lost I didn't even care if I got out at that point I was especially in Franklin HMP Franklin I ended up in the CSC cells and that in there Did I do a documentary on HMP Franklin or do I either have done one or I have one waiting in my watch later which will be done this week just battling them constantly I just did not care and I was at bad in Franklin that even when I went out on an adjudication the governor and the judge was stood right here and stuff and I went what you got them on for they were like in case of attackers I was like what do I do with a thing like that it was just a battle constant constant battle like one of the situations was I used to go through a process standing in the back wall or lying on the floor if I lied on the floor I used to lie on the floor when my legs took straight when my hands up like that or they wouldn't open the door and then they would like hey hey I'ma say it you made that bed for yourself though remember when he was like um oh yeah I was just trying to get a reputation a strategic reputation you had a reputation in the streets you had a reputation in that in that prison with the guards they knew they had to treat you this way the door would slam open bit of intimidation slam as hard as they could and then they would put the shield into the doorway then they would slowly walk in then shield onto me and then when the shield was onto me they would like tell me to put my hands off my head this is crazy this for a process and go on exercise and then a man would ride all of that to go to the yard on that side a man would ride on that side they would search me down then they'd all get behind them then they'd pick the shield up walk back to the door slowly then they would tell me to walk get up slowly with my hands on my head so I'd have to bring my knees in and get up and then they would I'd have to walk backwards to the door and then they would once I touched the shield they would step back so I could step out the doorway then they would tell me to go to the side slam me up against the door again same process two right gear people one on each side searching me down and then they would sort of walk off me and with about six or seven officers behind that shield slowly walking backwards and I'd have to walk backwards like that all the way it would take me about 10-15 minutes maybe more just to go around the corner on the exercise yard and then they started to come from me most people you see on here talking about dropshipping have never that's so tough for me because I would still go off it then they would handcuff me with my hands behind me back and do you know when you're like put your forward with your head and put the hands through you so they would have one on that side one on that side my mother right get shielded right officers there one behind with right officers and right shields and I would any chance I got I would try and get them kick off I mentioned this just to show you my mentality there was one officer who was always in the front but he would smirk no behind door let him not let them but he stood at the front to be going go and me and stuff and then one day I just bit my hair because he had big baldy hair like really shiny you know one of them ones and I bit all my hair off made it shiny so I looked like him and he come to the door because I pressed my buzzer I waited until he was on and I could hear his voice I pressed the buzzer I went to the door and he opened the flap and he went he what have you done that with your hair for and I smashed my face into the door when the popcorn was open I went because I like to look like me victims before I kill them by art and then hey that's exactly why they was coming in there with 12 right gear police officers for you hey you a wild boy he just went wise and I said don't go because he went to go I said don't go I said come here just listen to what I'm going to say to you and he was like what I said see you what you're doing to me I said have your fun now I said well one day when I get out I said I want to come I want to get you I want to get your wife I want to get your kids I said I want to get fishing wire I want to stick the mouths stitch the mouths together and the eyes together and while you're watching I want to pat you and I want to make you watch you so I was saying because of what they were doing to me they were brutalising me and doing stuff to me and I was thinking I'll get you back and I was saying I'm going to make you watch him while you're watching you're going to know it's because of you why this is happening and all that stuff in my head and then I sent a psychiatrist for us and then how is his life he had to be traumatised I had the psychiatrist coming I was like didn't say a thing I don't know what you're on about no just a constant battle between them and they're just as bad as you though that's the thing they're just not all of them but the majority of them they stick together if one of the officers attacked you they'd all make a statement to say that you attacked the officers they're all on the same side and even if that officer's not doing the dodgy stuff to you he's soon on his side if he had to make a statement he's soon write a statement to say to protect them so it's just them against you kind of thing what was it like speaking to a psychiatrist for the first time oh I've supported them most of my life oh ok so he has spoke to psychiatrists and I got sectioned off when I was younger I went in the open bit sectioned me off for a bit and I got restrained once off them and then they come and put me in a section their security unit it was called St. Luke's at the time and they put me in there because it said that I had unnormal strength because it was about five bodybuilders all trying to pin me down and they couldn't put me in ages and they had to get a needle and inject me with a needle and then I woke up three days after there the tranquilizer lost three days in my life did you ever have visitors friends come up and visit you family family and that would come and visit me but again in prison what you learn is you don't have many friends you go to prison though and write so they'll write for a couple of months and then after they've wrote for a couple of months they'll write about you or maybe just when you've got a couple of months left suddenly everybody starts writing to you again telling you the problems you don't have friends the only people who stick with you as your family you close family like your mom, your dad people like that but friends none of them wrote they did when I first went in but then they soon stopped who was it for Yermah to come up and see her boy just becoming like the devil and visualising hurting people to either dies or just becomes caged up like an animal the rest of his life how hard is that? as a parent now I just can't imagine what my mama went through being constant worries she told me she used to sit but one thing I remember saying is every Christmas when I used to be in jail because when you're in jail you think it's just you you're bothering it's me in jail I'm doing the sentence you don't think about people outside and she said to me I used to go upstairs and I'd be crying crying were forced because you were in jail and you weren't here and I wanted you here and stuff like that and that bothered me and then another time when I got out this time when I was changing and stuff I was out about a year and I was stood talking to me, me stepdad and stuff and I said do you think I've changed and you went oh you've changed and I said why tell me how do you think I've changed and you just looked at me and when I'm not scared of you anymore and I just was like you were scared of me and that bothered me and that's difficult to be then want to be feared of everyone not realising your own family is becoming scared of you and fearful did you know that you can make a full time income from YouTube without ever trying to grow your that's deep that's deep just an idiot but a beautiful thing about you is you know people will be watching this and they're interviewing I'm glad he ain't acting to cut that out man that saw people growth man growth and accountability like do you you got a you're not cold no more cold hearted thinking man this guy is off his fucking head but the beautiful thing is you've actually changed your life you've actually became a good man you've actually regret your sins and regret what you've done in life and you're trying to make amends and do good which is a beautiful thing brother we'll touch on that now what was that moment then for you to then want to change to be a killer to want to kill people security not caring who you hurt when really you're actually hurting yourself but what was the day that you wanted to change and realise that you were mentally unwell you know I get involved in selling heroin with some people from a person from Gateshead and another person and then I put a hit on an officer ten bags of heroin and it was a bit of a setup but in that time while I was doing all that this Christian company called Robert Bull or Ronald Bull and he started trying to preach Jesus to me you know I was just about to say right before, right when he started crying and he started doing this and I was going to say bro need God and nothing could have changed this man except God I don't see it I don't see nothing else that could have took that man out of the situation, out of the heart out of the hate out of the chaos that he was in but God that's not me personally that's all I could see it's crazy, I should have said it but now it sounds like I'm just saying it me and stuff like that and I just went and he started trying to preach Jesus to me and stuff like that and I just went get away from me you plonger I said unless God visibly appears like you now I'll never believe but he would just go on and then one day he said something and I just didn't forget it and it was because I was confused and he said to me he would talk and he got me attention he would point at his heart and he said I've been in prison for years and years I'm never going to get out he's a lifer he pointed at his chest he said but I'm free now my logic at the time you're in prison, you're in a prison cell you're never getting out again how are you free how I just now I think how didn't I get it but at the time I was thinking how can you be free what does he mean so I went back to myself and it would just bother me I was sat on my bed thinking like what does he mean how is he free he's in jail forever he's never getting out how is he free what does he mean and then he chucked these little YG's leaflets and then I ended up getting dragged to the SEG for what I've just said so that was the first incident of a little encounter with something making me think and I ended up going to the SEG for subversive behaviour and I was trying to use some authority to overthrow the authorities there was a little bit of truth in it but you know what the system's like by the time they're finished you're Pablo Escobar or something when really you're just a little idiot selling a few things and then subversive behaviour for that and then obviously smuggling part of smuggling drugs into the prison and then when I was in the SEG I went on a dirty protest kicked off and they just come and said right you're going back to the top security prisons again you've had your chance at scared back to the top security and I ended up in there is it Long Lighting in Worcestershire ended up in here, Chemp He, Long Lighting ruthless jail and after a couple of weeks being in there they opened my cell door and they said go to education so I was like oh yeah buzzing they must have been getting my education class went down and just so people know the seriousness of this, especially in the top security prison they've got what you call movements and they come to everyone's cell Jim visit works and you've got to go to your destination when you get to that destination there's two officers with a clipboard and if your name's on the list they'll let you through and if your name's not on the list they're meant to send you back to the wing now if they, you go through when you escaped they could lose a job if you go through and you weren't meant to be there and you kill someone there they could lose a job, so it's serious so I gets there and I said oh your name's not on the list so I made a fuss and I must have done their edzing because one of them stepped back and he went go to the chaplaincy and so I walked down to the chaplaincy but I was just buzzing thinking I don't have to go back and sell so I went into the chaplaincy, walked in and there was a circle of lads basically watching this film they thought like posh guy, hello do you know and they were there and I just remember sitting down no it's one of them mad christian things soon as the video finishes I'll get off so before I could do anything the little christian mum was like are you meant to be here blah blah blah your name's not on the list so I said I'll go back and as I went to go back one of the lads leaned in and he went you get free biscuits and gatos and that I was like oh I missed can you put my name down please you know strawberry gatos and chocolate biscuits and stuff in prison was like gold dust so I wasn't going to turn that option down that sound like gold dust to me right now going on for that reason and I would go on this christian course and I would argue and debate with them and you're all a load of nutters it's like an alpha course it's called a lot of inmate prisoners are becoming christian through it and I was just like oh he's nuts and then and just to go back a little bit you know when we talked about coincidences my cell door gets opened but my name wasn't on the list when I got to the other end I was meant to be sent back to the wing but they let me through and someone pointed out to me think of it like this Shane where did you go and say that your name was down on the list for I said education where did the chaplain where did the prison officer guide you to when he stepped back he said go to the chaplain see why why you open my cell door when I'm not on the list why let me through when I'm not on the list and why they wasn't doing that they wasn't doing that you got called there your time was up buddy all that demons all the devils hand around your neck was done I don't know if nobody believed in a higher power but God called that man and he went unknowingly why would an officer who's not a Christian send me to chaplain see and I just see that as like you know people say coincidence but there's many there isn't there and then when I went in and I just remember going on all the time they had this day what they dedicate to the Holy Spirit and when they dedicate to the Holy Spirit they're basically like just pray for you and stuff and things can happen or not and then what happened to me was for a sea load of rubbish or liars man you know and then I'm making a cup of coffee and this chaplain Eddie Baker just come walk beside of me he said I've never done this in all the years I've worked here but God has just told me to tell you to come here this afternoon on your own my motive get out my cell get some biscuits and some coffee yeah alright I'll come over goes to my cell the officers go out for the break and they open everyone up to go back to education chaplain see and whatever opened my door and said chaplain see so I went back down and found him and he took me into chaplain see and he got two chairs like this he said right I'm going to see some verses out the Bible he said something about no one's righteous not one we all fall short of the glory of God and another one about Jesus dying on the cross for your sins and explaining the Bible a bit he just said pray and I just remember thinking what do I pray what do I say and he just said from your heart pray and I just remember saying to myself God if you're real do something do something because if you're real please come into my life just and I said other stuff there's also another scripture in there God I can't answer your prayers unless you call on them you know what I'm saying so boom and I'm touched right now I'm touched I'm genuinely touched right now this this is deep and I stopped praying and go ahead gather yourself this has been over 10 years and it's still upset me because it was the start of the change in my life that second and I just remember sitting back after I prayed nothing happened and as I was talking I started to feel like an energy feeling in my stomach and start to raise up and raise up and raise up and I just shot up my body and I uncontrollably sobbed and sobbed and sobbed and I realized the hurt I'd done and I didn't think this interview was going to take this type of turn you want customers from ads much cheaper in the scale this is the L.A. for this which I hear you will and from all that do you think that was a release Shane from you being a scared kid knowing you were doing wrong but then wanting fear to then that day has been a release of getting a better understanding of yourself and then understanding the pain because there is always that effect where your conscience becomes clearer it's maybe clouded or blocked and then you get a conscience where you understand shit look at the pain I've caused how is that feeling? All I know is right up to that very moment I was still active in everything still planning to kill people when I got out and everything and then when that experience happened it was just like I'd become a totally different person it was just different and then I had this sense of God's real he's really real you know I have people telling me all the time I think whatever and then sometimes I would think well if he is real I hope one day shows me he is and and it was just an instant thing so I can't sort of put it down to anything but I'm prayed for I have this experience and from that moment on my life totally changed I was no longer seeing the prison system as an enemy I would start to think logically it was almost like honestly it's crazy it's almost like someone had just gone in there and just got a couple of them why is what we're loose and just connected them back up and suddenly the brains went ooh alright you know it was that kind of feeling and then I would just remember just thinking wait a minute now I hate I hate the police because they've arrested me and put me in prison and then I was thinking but I've committed a crime I've committed a crime so I should be and then I thought to myself well I've been going through all this brutality and I hate the system for that but wait a minute I stopped the prison officers what did I want them to do come and tickle me feet and feed me coffee do you see what I'm saying so I started to realise that my actions were putting me where I was not everybody else and that's the biggest problem of every criminal it's never them it's always anybody else but them it's always the one who called the police on them outside so I'm going to get them back it's his fault it's always the police officers fault because he arrested them it's always the prison officers fault because he locks the door behind when reality it's your fault you're there you commit the crime you want to run around ruthless so it's on you criminals never do that they always put the blame off on the other people or they always like oh well I'm not in for that charge I'm running in for that charge and they always like just to find themselves make sense responsibility is key to make any changes in your life no matter how so how does a man who people class is insane people sees a threat security, other prisoners family members and then saying that you've found God and you've found peace and you can see that you want forgiveness then people still think you're even more crazy how long does it take for people to get an understanding of you they say would they think it was just a scam it's probably still people out here that think he didn't change till this day hey lowkey broke Shane was from the stores that I'm hearing he was that cutthroat where I could where I could see people's mindset or feelings about him never changing to maybe get free cakes and biscuits and just another ploy to pretend that you're okay when I first got out of prison when I was in jail the number one governor actually made a meeting there was that shock that I was running around the wing as a Christian that I remember getting the chaplaincy coming to me and saying can you come to the government number one governor's created a meeting for you will you go to the come to this meeting so I went in I thought it was just going to be the governor was this table probably longer than this room that the governor at the end they asked me to sit at the other end of there and every chair was full social workers, probation other imams and other religious leaders the head of the police and the prison or security they're all there and I walked inside I'm like hey Shane you're due to be out soon but we've heard there's been a change and number one governor went do you have anything to say I started preaching Jesus for about 10 minutes I was going Jesus has really he's coming to my life and all that I was saying he's really real he's changed me he's in my heart yes I've got to repent and believe no I was just a new Christian didn't have a clue and there must have all been planning do you know a one by one asked me a question but after me chatting away for 10 minutes about Jesus he went to the mayor does anyone else have any more questions there I went now you're alright now put their heads down I ran on the wing with the Bible and because I'm known as attacking officers I ran on the wing with the Bible in the top prisons or movements to standing groups in case they get attacked and I remember running up to the officer and I jumped in front of them and they've all sort of jumped back as if there was going to be a fight and they've got ready and I went it's real and they're all looking at each other I went it's real and they went what's real I went Jesus Christ he's real and they all just split up and walked off and no one left us and it just I can't even they don't want to hear nothing from you when you doing when you preaching something you know when you enlightened but when you was doing that evil stuff running up on them they was ready for you and begin to even explain how do you humanly explain what happened to me it's impossible I can't explain it myself all I'm saying I was just this weirdo I had this experience and it's instantly changed me and I was out within a year everyone was saying ah it's a blag I'll be back in jail and as the time went on over the years the longer I was out and the longer people were seeing it was real the long that's when people start to come to me like we made something out of that ah he's off his head and then five or six years down the line they're all starting to come to me juggling you know this Jesus you're on about how did he come into your life you know and it's like alright and I just found over time you've got to prove yourself and that's what it's about you can't expect us to come out within two minutes everyone's like oh great yeah he's changed come on we'll all trust you I think as time went on and the years went on people started to realise it's not he's not played how long has he been out ten years we're going to be doing the four or five years down the line 13, 14 years 2007 I got out and I've become a Christian about a year or so before then so you're talking 13 years I don't know something like that and so when the as the time goes on I think it was and what I was doing so the ladder stopped there every time I went into this area I just never see him he'd disappear and one day I saw somebody who walked up to him in the club I said can you go and tell such and such that this is real I'm sorry for what I did to him and it's real I'm not playing he went like you mean it I went yeah funny enough he left the pub we were in five ten minutes them two walking and he walks in sits down at the table in the pub and I sat down and I held my hand out and I said I'm sorry for what I've done I said it takes a big man to do what you've just done and he got up and walked off and then so I was doing stuff like that the people which was making people think whoa and then the prison officer again I start working in the prison in our mouse the actual prison where I stopped the prison officers crazy or what and he was the officer I was with picked the phone and rang someone in the door knocked and they opened the door and it was the officer I stopped and he come in and I just said look mate I said I'm sorry for what I've done I said I really regret what I've done will you forgive me and he just held his hand out he said I forgive you yeah okay that moment right there probably did a lot for that officer as well he was probably going through it until then going to people who you're potentially nearly killed saying they forgive you does that give you a better piece of mind that it gives me a piece of mind definitely but and I do forgive myself when I'm crying here this isn't because I don't forgive myself and I'm feeling like I'm not forgiving it's more of just having remorse and feeling realising what I've done and as I'm talking the images come in I'm not going to lie this is probably one of the best interviews like podcast so far that I've watched my Ed and so I know what I've done I realise the things I've done and all I'm going to say is this is just the tip of the iceberg what I'm telling you is what I'm comfortable to reveal then nothing and so I think when you're talking about stabbing someone in the head and people go oh I think definitely can't tell you the other stuff because if that's enough I just reveal what I need to reveal in my life and I know that when God came into my life if he gave me at that point and I'm forgiven and I reveal what I choose to reveal and that's it for any kind of thing Do you get any medication or anything in the notion? No I never have I've never took it Did the diagnosis of anything?


At the beginning of this journey, I had the distinct privilege of meeting with Tom Graves. He was my district superintendent. He was in the process of retiring as I was coming into the system.  He said, honor that. And I held onto those words. Those came back to me several times throughout my ministry. As y'all, as most conference folks know, I was fortunate to direct Crossroads Community Services really from the beginning. The low-income families that worked with their faith, their appreciation of the blessings they have, and some of them don't have a whole lot of blessings compared to so many of us in the North Texas Conference. No, not all people. I mean, we have a broad mix under our umbrella as a church. Clearly, the local churches that I've served, the members of those churches have just been great and my love for the ministry that we do in the local church is what's been most important to me. Well, I think it's a tremendous time to create new and innovative ministries. And it's a critical time, I think, for those of us who affirm Wesleyan theology. So, you know, in my own ministry, we've always emphasized service and missions for others. And I just see that still, the passion that United Methodists, laypeople and people have when they're really serving others and they know they're serving and loving God as well. So I don't know that we've done the best job of looking at pretty simple opportunities to reach out and serve. We've got the right idea of mentoring and tutoring programs in our schools and lots of other things. But I think we can do much more. And a real reaching out, serving others ministry will set a church on fire and it'll set the laypeople on fire as well. Words, well, when I was at prior church, really didn't usually work well. My experience was that to get out in the community and get to know people and get to know what's going on in that community is how you learn what is needed in that community. I served in two suburban areas and two semi-rural areas and they were all so different. I found that asking the district superintendent at the schools was a wealth of information of what's going on, what's needed and how we could be the hands and feet of Christ in that community. And that we didn't have to do anything like everyone else. We needed to do what God was calling us to do in that community. I'm preaching to the choir, to everybody watching this video. Methodists are known for their work in the community. So I'd say keep that up.  And that makes the one commandment that I understand, love God and love our neighbors, come to life in real tangible ways in people's lives. The tricky part is how do you do that? How do you make the church relevant in the 21st century? And I personally am counting on the new ordinance to do that. And there's no quick answers in a video like this to do that. They have to get in the congregations, meet people where they are, learn, build the relationships because when it push comes to shove, church is all about relationship and valuing, again to me value is a synonym for love, valuing people, the community in which they are doing ministry and doing church. So when we meet people where we are, I've heard over the decades, church can move at a glacial pace, which we've seen with some issues in the church over the years and centuries. And I smile because it's, yes, we got to move at a pace that works, but glaciers, we don't want to become relevant by the time that the glacier evaporated. So I throw that out there as a sincere challenge with the optimism that I'm trusting, hoping, praying, counting on them to do that. The advice that I give everybody is to, and this is new in the last few years, is to as you grow in your ministry, just be curious, really, really curious. The pastors that I admire and have been the most effective I think through the years have been pastors that are always curious. I don't know of anybody more curious than Adam Hamilton, especially in his early days. He asks, all he did was ask questions. And I'm a person who believes that there's such a thing as best practices, and we have to learn those. We don't just know them. It requires learning. We all need mentors and coaches. And so in terms of career advice, advice, that's what I would say is just continue to be curious and grow and know that there's a lot to learn and learning is very, very satisfying and rewarding, fulfilling. The two best pieces of advice that I think I ever received were from laypeople. In my first church, a woman on my SPR approached me and she said, whatever you do, do not mess with the schedules of children and old people. So to some degree you need to mess with schedules at times, but I always held that and treasure that and tried my best to pay attention. And as I took care of my parents in their final years, I began to realize even with far more acuity as to why that's so important. The second piece of advice does not need a lot of explaining, but it was another one that I treasured a great deal.  They both taste better with a little bit of shortening.


Could you have a perfect marriage? Sarah is married, chick. Sarah is a lawyer, chick. Okay, that's where the similarity stop. Keep watching to find out what book we're talking about today. It's Kyla DeNanio. So today we're talking about the book, The Perfect Marriage. This book is written by Geneva Rose. The genre of the book is fiction. The theme of the book is suspense thriller, okay? So this book was right up my alley. Let's get into my all time favorite plot twist in the book.  You have her husband and her husband is actually cheating on her.  Oh, it's fine. And then the ending, Geneva. So the reason why that plot twist is so compelling is because we get to see the characters a number of years after the crime happens.  What's gonna happen? Hey, what's happening with life? Well, Geneva Rose writes this entire tale with you hanging on the edge of your seat. Like, man, Sarah really loves her husband. Look at how she's defending Adam. Oh, that's so great. Maybe a conflict of interest. And then at the end, Sarah's like, you know what, I wanna divorce, I'm over it. And so when you find out why she wants to divorce, it really, I mean, I was like, okay, I need to reread the entire book again because did I miss clues?  I couldn't anticipate what was gonna happen in this book. If you enjoyed the video, give it a like because that really does help YouTube share these videos with more people so that more people can embrace book reviews and embrace book recommendations and read some more of Geneva Rose, okay? So I will see you next time on Kyla's Reading Day. Bye.


But this is the last one I put on here. There's the mirage versus the oasis. I like that. So a lot of times you think you're getting somewhere on this path and a lot of times we have to go through this path before we realize the alternative. Well, there is one more. It's the big one. This is the path of self-confidence. This is the path of self-esteem. Like I said, both get results. Both can get what appears on the surface level to be dynamic and varied sex life.  The pickup route is all about self-confidence. This is another triangle. You find the community because you have low self-confidence, typically, as well as low self-esteem. But you have high interest. This is something you desire, often desperately. Then you have that choice. How am I going to get there? How am I going to get there? So a lot of times we find these products, we find these articles online. And it's like promising you the magic bullet and the quick fix and instant results. And it's all here, right? Even if it works, even if it works once in a while, right?  You're doing these kind of... You feel weird, I don't know. I hope.  Should I be telling this story? Am I lying? And it's not enhancing your self-esteem. Think about the difference between self-confidence and self-esteem. Self-confidence is... It's belief in your ability. Confidence is belief in your ability. I don't... I don't talk about confidence. I really don't believe confidence is like the necessary ingredient. So mainstream dating advice always says you got to be confident. And then all the pickup stuff, all the community says you got to have confidence. Confidence is key, right? Confidence is belief in your own ability. If you don't have the ability, you still want to take action. You still want to pursue a better life. So it takes courage. Courage trumps confidence. Confidence is belief in your own ability. Courage is acting despite having no belief in your ability. Confidence says, fake it till you make it. Courage says, act anyway. Act. Action. Take action. And that's what builds self-esteem. Other direct reflections of self-esteem is health. For sure, we've seen how many guys go on this path of instant result. I got to get this shit-mastered pickup stuff. They drop out of school. They neglect their health.   I don't feel good about my life. Self-esteem has to do with self-respect, self-worth. Do you value yourself? Do you value your time? Do you value where you put your attention? Do you love yourself? You can certainly hate yourself and be highly confident. You can do, like, despicable things and be highly confident and confident.  High confidence. Low self-esteem. So that's the other dynamic I put onto this. It's like, choose this path, right? I don't know. It's up to you. So it all comes down to choice, right? So ultimately to me, pickup, it's like a bribe. It's like all this weird, shifty, shady stuff. Trying to trade your value or perceive value or phony, baloney, value and status for sexual access. Remember we talked about if pickup is a bribe, seduction is a gift. There is one more. I have so many things in here. Remember cocky funny, right? It was a great, like, community innovation, right? Be cocky funny. It's straight up here. What is over here is courage and humility. And Vince said this, too. Humility is sexy. There's a lot of convergence taking place in this room right now. And through the rest of the weekend. A lot of guys that have never met, never been in field together, never read each other's material, are coming to the same conclusions and having the same sense of awakening, sense of awareness. You want to be cocky funny and fake it till you make it? Do you want to act anyway and develop courage? Display humility, you know? And going in field, like doing the approach, man. The less confident you feel, the more confidence is over here. The more humility you need to display, you know? I'm nervous standing up here, right? I'm doing it anyway. Because this is my path. This is my passion. This is something I feel I need to share. I feel ordained to share this material. So you grow up to a girl and it's like, you know, I'm kind of nervous even approaching you. I don't really know what I'm going to say. But I noticed you and I had to come say hi. Or what was Vince's line? I wrote it down. It's just that.   It's humility. It's being humble. Man, I'm kind of nervous. I can't believe I'm even doing this, but it's just that. I noticed your dress and I'm real curious about it. Where'd you get it, right? So there you go. Courage, humility. I think once again, I kind of already said this, but these are the extremes. They all have a shadow in the naming system that I was coming up with. Peer seduction is the pimp.  That's, I don't know. I think it's a disgusting and like despicable kind of thing to call yourself. But a true pimp that coerces women. Coersions over here, but I still think it's the right word.  They don't care.  So that's the dark side down here. The dark side I already said of the sexual is like the caveman. The guy has no social calibration, no seductive calibration. He just, he just takes, he takes, you know, forcefully. One thing to always keep in mind is like seduction was created by women. You know, in old days, it was all about force. It was all about creating that sense of obligation and dominance by sheer brute force. Women got wise to power by using their charm, their feminine wiles, right? To kind of intrigue and captivate and capture the men, right? So I don't know, like that's something to always keep in mind. Like we're practicing an art that was created by women like Cleopatra and Helen of Troy, historic names, right? So where I'm saying is put your attention here from the sweet spot and kind of a circle right here. So this is kind of to give you a theoretic background of the trump cards that I'm going to go into. Any questions about the triangle? Yeah. How does the concept of arousal fit into your triangle? That's going to be one of the five trump cards. Okay. So I'm going to answer it thoroughly in a minute. Yeah. One question is I'm not a native English speaker. So what do you mean by Ardain? Ardain, like I was saying, is just a sense of being selected, being chosen. Yeah. To share your gift.  Like I wanted to be like this anonymous player, right? Or playboy. I always make distinctions. Yeah. I love women. I love femininity. I love creating that connection. I love the process of seduction, but I didn't want like recognition for it. I was like, my purpose has to be higher. It has to be bigger and better, right? And that's what I'm saying. Like I've been doing this for so long. I've been creating so many experiences and also teaching so many guys. As a seduction purist, I'm not an information marketer. I don't have products. I don't have this stuff, right? Like attached to myself.  That's all I mean. Like I believe each and every one of us have that kind of gift. We have that kind of characteristic or unique trait that we deserve recognition for. And if you, if you heighten your awareness and zone into what it is absolutely, what it is that makes you unique, what your talent and skill is a community will find you. I didn't seek out the community. This community found me. So a community, a source, a group of people that's ripe and ready to recognize you for your gifts. When you recognize that, that's ordination. Got it. Great question. And then our question is while you're talking about humility and courage, you kind of metaphorically replace it for CNF, maybe not totally your intention. But the question is I have the feeling I'm getting humility in the wrong way. So how would you define humility? Like how do you display it? How do you display it? Being humble, not taking yourself seriously, even learning the process, not taking it seriously. To always be sincere without being serious. To be warm and generous and honest and authentic, but not to be heavy.  You better pay attention, right? So humility is being playful while being like... Playfulness, optimism, open-mindedness. And at the same time to be relaxed in yourself. Like look, I just had to come talk to you. If you're not vibing with me, if you don't accept my gift, it doesn't diminish my intention for wanting to give it to you. If you offer someone a gift and they refuse to accept it, your intention remains intact. The desire you had to give it does not change. And then the aspect of humility is like to say like, you know, I don't take this seriously and I'm kind of nervous. You know? That's sexy. Humility is totally sexy. Cool. And again, I'm not saying that as a technique, right? That would be over here. It's like to find your sense of humbleness. Here's a great exercise. I hope this isn't going to throw me like off on time too much. Get $21 bills or whatever your equivalent would be here. Go to an intersection. I notice there's not really panhandlers here, but they're all over the place in the U.S. But try this here.  And give them out. Give them out to pass or buys. It's like $21 bills. It's one of the greatest ways you ever spend $20. In America, it's so hard to get someone to take them. No, no, no, no. Because they don't know your intention. They don't know what is this all about. Hold a sign says, I have to give. I have to give. This is like an esteem building exercise too. Here, take a dollar, please. What? Try it. Yeah, I know. It's cool. It's not seduction related, but give it a try, you know. Right. One exercise to that. When you have Eastern in Europe, you can also give out chocolate, little chocolate eggs in the club. It's even more hardcore because most of them think there's drugs in it. So they think there's like an ulterior motive. And give out the, look, this is one of the things. I've been making a list of things I notice here. Every shop, like 7-Eleven or whatever, has this huge ray of candy. And they're not individually wrapped. There's no like protective cover or whatever. This stuff would never fly in America. People would think that it's like, not necessarily poison, but it's like contaminated. Like people put their grimy hands in it or whatever. But it's, it persists.  I've seen it everywhere. You guys must love sweets. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Fun stuff. Seduction enticing others into doing what they really want to do already. Women are complicit in their own seduction. Women want to be seduced. Women desire seduction. Most virtue is a demand for more seduction. Most resistance is a demand for more tension. We want that sexual tension.  Maintaining that sexual tension. Most things we perceive as resistance is a demand or a request for more tension. Most LMR is a demand for more foreplay. It's a demand to just slow it down. Give her that experience. Give it to her with patience. Escalation, the step-by-step process of making a moment more intense.