Good afternoon and welcome this session is entitled cloud foundry the gaps and My name is John Wetherill. I'm an architect a cloud architect at BNY Bank of New York Mellon and Little bit of background kind of what brought me to this basically what brought me to this talk so I've had a year a career in develop software development and delivery The last four years I spent it at active state building our Cloud Foundry based pads helping build it and and basically deliver it the paths called staccato and It was a really interesting role and I from the viewpoint of a cloud foundry vendor visiting a lot of large enterprises around the around the world around the country anyway and Seeing what their problems that they were facing were you know seeing the problems they were encountering trying to successfully and rapidly deliver software and And and and the barriers that they were seeing and and not just in general software delivery And then with plat with the platforms they're looking at including cloud foundry and including staccato so I had this viewpoint of seeing all these companies from the viewpoint of an external vendor and getting a lot of you know very informative descriptions of the problems that they're facing and I've since moved on from the staccato project and I joined BNY Mellon six months ago working on the Paz team and It's now I get to see the world from like the other end of the telescope So instead of from the external you know a long-distance view of a vendor I'm now seeing it from the inside and First of all, it's it's affirming a lot of what I discovered over the last four years talking to these big enterprises Yeah, they get these same exact problems And but what it also is doing is really from the external I didn't really see the depth in the How difficult some of these problems were to solve and now I'm I'm seeing it firsthand from the inside and so What this talk is about or what we're gonna focus on is our work with cloud foundry at BNY Mellon We're a gold sponsor of cloud foundry the cloud foundry foundation. We have brought it into our our shop and So the work with that and It's basically framing this with we have been building a Paz for several years for almost 15 years and So how that relates to the cloud foundry and everything that we're doing so that's kind of a background As far as BNY Mellon goes where we've been around for a long long time one of the oldest established companies in the banks in the country and We handle massive massive amounts of of you know funds and finances and currency, etc I'm slightly embarrassed to say that before I started interviewing with this company. I hadn't really heard of them and yet it's actually it's very Important financial institution institution in the world as you can see with these numbers 29.1 trillion in assets Under custody one point, you know lots of money lots of assets going around. We have 13,000 people in IT And as I mentioned earlier, we've been working hard on cloud software We we've been building a Paz for 15 years We've been building micro services long before micro services were kind of the latest trend We're a Java shop mostly for the most part so we've been working hard on all this stuff and We have built our own Paz just working. Oh, I see. It's a build. I didn't realize that. Pardon me I'll let this cycle through because I don't need it to do the building. So we have this platform called the Nexon platform which is our Platform for soft cloud software delivery including the Paz itself including analytics and Digital information. I think I just blew past this thing My apologies. Okay, let's try this I've over clicked it and this platform itself. We've been working on it for several years and We're on the third generation of it now. It has had profound impact on our ability to deliver software and I'm just very carefully stepping through the slide so I don't go too far and It's it's the entire platform for our whole software delivery system and we have incorporated Cloud Foundry as basically as a POC and an evaluation into this Paz as we'll see shortly. So I Didn't realize that they had provided me as these bills. It's okay But the point of this slide here and we'll get into the meat of this thing shortly The point of this slide here is to show how we have advanced over the years from our ability to provision and deliver software taking a long period of time to much shorter period of time so back in the old days it would take two to four weeks for set up and for same amount of four to 12 weeks for testing in QA 12 to 16 four to 16 weeks to get things out into production And that's part of the dev cycle and we've got most of that down to a single day So and that's the the speed up that you can expect when we're moving into the modern era But there's some incredible challenges We have as a bank to try to get there and that's some part of what I'd like to cover today So yeah, let's move right into that So this is this is huge and by the way when I was visiting all these companies all over You know a lot of them were banks and financial institutions, and I I swore to myself I'd never worked there because of all these restrictions that they have imposed on them and I found it working looking at BNY Mellon there they're Aware of a lot of these constraints and these these challenges, but they're actively Getting passed them and that's what we'll look at here So it's a find a huge financial industry Company in in a very highly regulated industry We have massive amounts of transactions going through our system very high volume very high amount high number of transactions and to the point where if something fails it could Potentially affect the economy of the country, right? It's that much so obviously high availability is absolutely essential for our operations We have multiple data centers across the planet. They need to be they need to stay up We need to understand disaster recovery obviously security is very important and We've been around for a long time We have a lot of old cold old codeword applications legacy apps You know vintage apps as they said this morning and more modern stuff that we have to deal with have to work with Different hardware architectures software architectures all the things you would expect Integration with vendors and partners all these things are huge challenges and just a little bit about the regulations Audits are huge everything that we do has to be audited I'm trying to just paint a contrast here between what it's like at this financial institution Versus at a you know a startup that's working with with logs or data or something like that These can these constraints have significant effect So having everything has to be auditable and trackable and Secret delivery and secret management has to be very carefully controlled and never getting in the wrong hands Every step of every process has to be reproducible Precisely as it was pre reproduced so every image that's built every artifact that's built has to be tracked and reproduced obviously fraud detection Many of these things are they have huge impact on How we are able to deliver software here's one example is separation of duties by regulation The coders must not deploy to production So if you're a coder you can't deploy if you're a deployer you can't code. There's that strict separation which you know Kind of gets in a way a little ways of the DevOps concept, right? But but but this is by regulation and that fact that one little fact has Significant impact on our whole development lifecycle including on our paths that we've built So I'm gonna skip through some of these because I don't have a lot of time I want to make sure I get into the the cloud foundry part But some of the additional challenge is just the massive amounts of data. We have running through we are global We have to be up 24 by 7 we have SLAs to deal with all over the place We just can't be down and I do want to say a little bit about DR So without a doubt Bank of New York Mellon understands disaster recovery We've been through some basically the worst possible thing you can happen have happened to a data center We have had happen to a data center about 15 years ago, and we had to deal with that So there's many people that I work with that are Experts at what DR really means and how we can recover from it So there's a lot of things that that has to be incorporated into our entire platform at all times You have to keep keep on top of that. We also have to validate this so we have to prove to the regulatory Regulatory bodies that we can recover from a disaster, and it's kind of interesting It turns out it's easier to go through a real DR event than it is to test for a DR event Because if you have to test for a DR event you actually have to keep all your existing stuff going and then gradually move it over to and you know somehow move it over to another data center whereas With a real DR event you don't have to worry about you know gradually bleeding off processes or things like that You just it's down. It's gone, right? So we have to prove that periodically and Make sure we can simulate failure failover accurately There's a lot of stuff regarding security, but again, I'm sensitive of time. So let's let's talk about some of the challenges The and as a company we're doing all the things that you hear about at a conference like this microservices And we are we are doing DevOps to the ability that we can based on the the regulations Containerization Docker, you know that kind of stuff All the things we we are heavily into open source Open source makes a lot of sense for a number of reasons and we're very sensitive about getting locked into a specific solution or a specific vendor But yeah many advantages of open open source and we're we're actively taking advantage of all the open source Or many of the open source projects that you've heard of including cloud foundry So some of the strategies we follow to try to get here Paz itself as I say we've been building a pass for all these years and I'll talk a little bit about that and how it relates to cloud foundry So cloud foundry we as I say we're as I said, we're a gold member of the cloud foundry foundation and we have Incorporated cloud foundry into our paths again We're using the open-source version We're taking advantage of a lot of its features for monitoring and log aggregation and the self-service on-demand cloud stuff You would expect to give to allow our developers to rapidly provision an application Auto-scaling all the stuff you come to expect with cloud foundry Another valuable point is it's a hybrid cloud ability to support hybrid clouds quite easily. Okay, so let's get into the meat of this That was kind of the background. I think I've got 20 minutes left so There's a lot of Gaps that we found there's several gaps We have found with cloud foundry that we've had to work around or had to meet and I'm going to cover these relatively briefly I want to set the stage though that this this is not a Defects of cloud foundry talked by any stretch there's no way that any product or application could meet any everybody's needs at all times and As I say, we've been building paths for 15 years and we have all our specific requirements And we do things the way we do them So we can't just drop in and replace all our stuff with a brand new technology and have it work And so what we've done is we spent a lot of time Analyzing and evaluating what cloud foundry does and how it fits into our existing platform And what I'm going to cover in this talk and the remainder of this talk is some of the gaps between cloud foundry and Our paths and how we've filled them up. So and there's I think there's three slides here with some of the high-level gaps and I'll Blast through those while I dive into each one and just a little bit of detail. First of all is OS certification so a lot of our products must be by by regulations they must run on certain specific operating systems and So we found bringing cloud foundry that was a little bit of a challenge because because it wasn't certified to run on some of these OSes so we don't have a choice about this We have specific apps that must run on specific OSes and then as an organization we certify a Set a fairly small set of OS as we can use internally So that was a definitely a constraint. We have to work around and I'll get around shortly how that how that happens I mentioned disaster recovery and I Realized cloud foundry is making great strides in all of these areas by the way This is our kind of how we've been in the last few months looking at things as they were But having a use case for cloud foundry Sorry a use case for disaster recovery that can handle an instant loss of a data center and Failing over to a secondary data center. We have to have a very precise way to describe that and make it happen And obviously the the whole Multi-data center operation has to be very seamless. So it's like if you've maybe heard of uber netties It's like the uber kubernetes thing You kind of need something like that with our paths and we have built that with our paths And that's what cloud foundry is sliding sliding into that So we need a single control plane so we can manage all the pieces of this whether it's the applications of the services Cross multiple availability zones across multiple data centers across multiple clouds for that matter even private versus public cloud and Another challenge of that is there's all this vendor integration So we use vendor products for monitoring and for logging and for load balancing and all these other other Facets of the paths and we have to integrate with all of this and it's no mean feat to take care of all that network and application issues, I guess So that basically there has to be ways to describe how Different app instances and services and containers if you will can communicate to each other or Cannot communicate to others. So I want to make sure that this web tier Ruby on rails thing of a jig can talk to this Java tier, but can't talk to this database tier That's just a very trivial example, but it gets much more interesting when you have you know fleets of micro services operating throughout your network How to control the access between all these different components or for that matter how to enable it? How can I get from here to here? So there's a lot of complexity involved in isolating isolating networks and then we have this whole ecosystem where I For us right containers the whole container concept. So Docker is you know, obviously I'm cloud foundry is actively working with supporting Docker Which is really cool. We were able to use that to great use a few months ago But there's some limitations that we found that we had to overcome for example I don't know if it's changed yet But when we were on it a couple of months ago is very difficult to have cloud foundry pull a Docker image You this is with Diego obviously to pull a Docker image from some random like let's say internal secure registry as opposed to having to go out to the Docker to the hub so That was a challenge that we we had trouble getting past or taking an existing container that has requirements for volumes and figure out how to get that to work inside of cloud foundry as a Docker container inside of Diego a Lot of challenges we we had trying to get get past that Check, okay And Docker has some nice features like Docker compose the ability to describe multiple Components of an application in a single descriptor and deploy the whole thing is one unit, which is which was pretty nice So we have our own version of that. We've had it for years. We have our own descriptors that describe apps I'll get into that a little bit more detail So these are some of the things that the Docker and the containerization support that we had to work around or had to deal with A little bit about build packs so very powerful concept You can take any arbitrary app and cloud foundry will understand it and provision a container for you based on on what your application is built from but We found that so very powerful But then if we needed to customize it at all we had to you know download this build pack code Which is several thousand lines of Ruby code and we're we're a Java shop So suddenly we have to have a Ruby expertise on board to understand what is inside this build pack and how to maintain it and then Issues like can we contribute that upstream our changes? Is it is it relevant things like that? So it the build pack issue is just it was I'm still struggling I'd love to talk to people about how how you get around that issue of build packs complexity and the The massive code base to deal with it what what I've done in the past is just taken a You know if I need to do something really simple like Java and Tomcat and some specific customization Like injecting some security thing I mean almost can just bypass the whole bill pack or the Java bill pack and use a bash script like 20 lines of bash to do The same thing, but I don't know if that's the recommended way Anyway, another thing so a lot of work is being done today for the you know the TCP router etc allowing non-http and on HTTPS traffic to be routed through Cloud Foundry And you know back in the staccato days when I was a staccato We've been working on that for a few years now. It's been working quite well But with with this latest venture that was a limitation where we want to make sure we can deploy any workload whether it's HTTP or not and have it correctly routed to you by the paths and you know ideally on our paths should support UDP as well and I'm not sure what the status. I haven't checked recently of the Whether the TCP router is if there's also a UDP router underway, but our paths is having to deal with that outside of Cloud Foundry Okay, I'm assemblies is pretty interesting. So I need to be able to take To describe a complex application topology with a single descriptor And again if you've used Docker so Docker composes a really good example where you can have a multi-tier app or a microservices based app with multiple components multiple services that it makes up and Describe them in a descriptor and then use Docker compose to the provision the whole thing is a single entity and These partitions for us they can include all sorts of things whether it's vendor software or Standard 12-factor applications and services or a lot of our legacy apps cron jobs services that need to be up all the time all this stuff needs to be Wired together described and wired together and and we use assemblies for that so 12 factor apps You know Cloud Foundry is really good at that good at that And but that that's kind of the the easy part 12 factor apps They're stateless and they have standard ways to log and configuration and source code manager all that stuff But we have all these other applications all these you can call them legacy apps, but Not necessarily legacy. They're just not cloud native applications. I guess All of these apps need all this stuff the automation and and versioning and Scaling up and scaling down we need to be able to do that effectively for any category of application Not just a web-based app or a 12 tier 12 factor application So what we need is to be able to manage this from a single Abstraction and we have what we call an assembly which is like a Docker compose file Which describes all the components of this application in a single place and then we can provision it This entire thing as a single entity Things like dependency management on how can I get the latest version make sure it's the latest version of a service is tied to to a specific application I'll say a little bit more about that is You know microservices has great promise obviously ability to version your all your services independently But in certain applications with with very high requirements of Availability where you know, there's penalties incurred if you if your app is down for a minute lots of money Penalties involved. It's maybe a little too risky just to allow that microservice to evolve on its own, right? And so instead you have to be able to say well this application requires this microservice version XY Zed I was gonna say that I should say Z since I'm in this country I want to be able to Tie each application to specific versions of everything and that's what an assembly can be used for it say this is my entire Complex application and I can deploy it as a unit. I can version it as a unit. I can roll it back as a unit So that's something that we we have had to build outside of the power of Cloud Foundry And we've that's what we've been doing for several years Another thing we need to look at is is like affinity or location awareness So if we have you know for for many workloads and applications You need to have the data and the processing close together and Hadoop is a good example of that But at the ability to to I don't know partition your into all your resources so that certain Workloads get targeted at those resources Hot cold storage, so I might have this you know the head of bytes of storage that has very Very long time to access it and then I have my smaller memory pool which is instant access And I need to be able to say you go over there and you go over there and we we Need to be able to use our paths to say all this stuff So specify all these all these constraints same with specialized hardware GPUs and FPGAs etc Our paths needs to be able to handle all this stuff I'm shared local file system again. I understand this is coming with Cloud Foundry if it's not already here But many of the apps that we do deploy We need to have the ability to share multiple Multiple instances of the app running across the paths need to be able to share a file system easily And we need to be able to specify this in the descriptor or the assembly descriptor Pardon me a single sign-on authentication So we have just huge Infrastructure in place to deal with this and that says here lots of customers It means there's lots of people within and outside of BNY melon It will be authenticating to our systems and the paths is what's deploying these systems So it has to have some understanding of an integration with all these different authentication mechanisms So very complex and there's some that are very challenging to do So we have to do a lot of work on that Yeah, third-party's customers Our whole stack whether it's ancient hardware or brand new software and hardware has to be able to deal with all this Okay secrets is an interesting topic as well. How's my time? Okay Secret management is regulated and I've been at companies in the past and I'm sure there's many many companies But whereas if I was a clever and malicious developer I could easily get into a database and look at things or even change things if I knew what I was doing I've I've been there and You know, there's there's ways to get around that But we have to be just very precise on how we control secrets and making sure that secrets don't get in ever Can never possibly get into the wrong hands So developers and deployers just can never have an access access to a secret that provides access to some Trusted or needing to be trusted resource Some sensitive resource, okay? Exposing secrets via the environment is is kind of risky So we're looking at sophisticated secrets management techniques to get past that and just to say a little bit about trust Um, you know, it's it might be it might seem to be a good thing to trust our developers You know trust developers in general, but in fact, that's not a good thing and it's nothing about the developers Myself as a developer. I do not want to be burdened with the trust of secrets I'd never want to have a secret because if I have that secret and something happens, you know Suddenly I'm kind of I'm in I'm in there somehow Whereas if I never had that secret never even kind came close to it that I can do all my work So the past has to be able to allow me to provision everything I need to and run everything I need to but without me ever getting my Hands on that secret any port any portion of the whole SDLC And so we have to very care carefully bake that into our paths. It's just a fundamental tenant for the past Okay, so that's a few of the gaps with cloud foundry But as I said, this isn't a cloud foundry bashing talk by any stretch There's a lot of really good things about cloud foundry And I'll just wrap up my talk by just covering these and briefly and I'm sure many of the talks here cover all of this stuff, too But it's a very strong community is is evidenced by this by this conference and by how things have been going for the last three or four years here And we are using the open-source cloud foundry, which gives us a lot of power as you can imagine Really good for 12 sat factor apps really good for microservices Really helped us with our hybrid cloud initiatives so we can take our apps and have them deployed across multiple clouds both internal and external You know as your AWS that kind of thing That's the same point here. It did allow us to do some POC's with Docker There were as I said, there were some limitations But we were able to really quickly provision Docker containers into our paths using our cloud foundry integration Many of the developers in house that use cloud used our paths that had the cloud foundry in Incorporation were we're just pleased to put it mildly of how Simple it is to provision apps when when you have cloud foundry taking care of all the heavy lifting The service broker cloud party service broker whole infrastructure. We've been using that URL provisioning is really nice. If you know the wildcard DNS while cloud foundry URL Mechanisms, it's really nice to for a developer to provision an app and that URL is instantly available That's a huge thing the logging This standard cloud foundry pitch, which I'm really good at by the way I've done it for many years, but I'm the logging the polymorphism ability to support multiple languages The security groups it has for isolating workloads and basically creating networks between between or partitioning networks between workloads The open source one we had no vendor lock-in and we had we had clouds so Yeah, no specific IS tie-ins really this far as from the from the higher level and It really helped with the separation of concerns who does what I'm out of time. So I'm rushing a little bit Yeah, so there's a lot of things that cloud foundry did very well for us But we are continuing to use our existing paths because we have built it to support all these things I discussed at the beginning of this talk Cloud Foundry is a path to components. So when you push an app to our paths It might in certain circumstances will push that we'll just pass it through to cloud foundry But you know so it'd be a single cloud foundry instance writing across these data centers as opposed to Kind of an uber thing. That's where our paths comes in But it does very well with the things it does it does cloud foundry Deals with all the things that it's good at very well obviously and we are able to leverage that Yeah, so greatly simplified app deployment on the descriptors are so much simpler as well So our app descriptors if we use cloud foundry for certain classes of apps We can simplify the descriptors and and the specification of those much faster to bring a developer on board to figure out How to provision an app to the paths to the cloud the URL provisioning. I mentioned Docker POC, you know, we can do some Docker work with with Diego and the hybrid cloud so that's kind of the The front of my talk. I don't have time for questions unfortunately I will take it just a second to say that we have a bunch of innovation centers around the globe doing some very Innovative things that we are hiring and it's a very cool place to work. So I just I wanted to put that in there I'm if you're interested and go to this URL or come talk to me. It's incredible the Initiative to innovate is coming from the top and from across the organization. We're doing some incredible things I'll plug we are there's a panel discussion at 455 today for 450 I guess in ballroom B and its Finance and cloud basically is what we're going to talk. We've got half dozen people or so to discuss finance and clouds So come to that and that's my talk. Thank you for the time


Well, to this March 5th, we are doing a regular advocacy and outreach special interest group meeting. We have several people on the call and today we have special agenda because we would like to discuss some joint activities with Continues Delivery Foundation. One of the major topics we would like to have today is about Continues Delivery Foundation and Jenkins participating in JSOC because we have two organizations participating and we would like to stop boundaries and if possible to help each other so that most of the organizations could be successful. We also put some other topics to the agenda about Jenkins-era meetups, operations and about online Kubernetes-related events for Jenkins which we would like to organize. Does anybody else have other topics? No, I can give an update also on what we're planning to do because KubeCon is postponed. They don't have the final dates yet of when that's gonna happen. It's looking like the summertime, like July, August timeframe. And then also Dan Lorek from Google. I don't know if you guys have been in communication but he's trying to organize a contributor summit but I don't know if it's just tecton specific. So I need to follow up with him on that. But that's also with the coronavirus, I don't know if international travel is gonna be impacting people. So it was that summit in Miami which was distributed through channels, right? Yeah, I think so. He sent out a survey of dates that would work and I think it's like the last three weekends in April but like I said, I don't know if folks are gonna be impacted by travel policies. Yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, so we also had a quite sporadic discussion couple of days ago about it. So we think about doing online meetups, for example, about Jenkins and Kubernetes because Jenkins has online meetup platform. So we have content for Kubernetes related things. So we were just thinking about organizing maybe online meetup or maybe- Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Yeah, I think that's actually a really great idea because that's something that for the China event right now it's canceled. So we're looking into web, yeah, online platforms basically to host virtual events. So I know Dan, the one that's leading that. So he's looking into how much that would cost to get that set up for us. But I think that's a really great idea. So I guess just a quick update on CDF. Right now, Christy and Rosalind, who are the co-chairs, they're sending out communication to all the speakers. So we're letting them know that obviously the CDF is being postponed to the summer but we plan to go forward with the same program. It would just change depending on people's availability, so. Yeah, so basically the recommendation if we run an event like that, I mean, online event that we have different content so that we don't invite talks from the CD summit or from a queue on main tracks but instead of that, we find other speakers. So we keep the agenda for the summer, right? Yeah, I mean, ideally, I guess I'm just saying that as an FYI, so. Okay, yeah, it's well understood. I can say that I'm part of the Kubernetes contributor summit and we're moving that to virtual. We decided to go with Zoom because it allows for breakout rooms. Yeah. Oh, that's a good idea too. Same reason, Jenkins, we use Zoom. Okay, so anyway, it's something to discuss further because it was just an idea but yeah, maybe you'll recognize something but there's something that will definitely be on the scale. I think this is a really good idea just because for example, we don't know much about the coronavirus like if it fades out during the summer, kind of like the flu. So I think it'd be good to just have a backup plan if CD summit doesn't happen because it gets canceled because of the coronavirus. So then at least we can still continue with the event. We're just moving it virtually. Okay, so yeah, I'm going to see what. I'll also let you guys know because I think Dan was looking on 24. I think that was the name of the platform. Mm-hmm. Okay, so any other comments about this topic before we move on? This note. Okay, next topic I heard is about Jenkins server meetups. So full disclaimer, I understand the situation is resourced especially taking the coronavirus and changes in all other events. So the situation for us is that we are still trying to recover meetups. Obviously we don't expect many meetups to happen in the short term because again of the coronavirus. But I just wanted to ask how can we help you with that? Because if there is an opportunity to delegate some meetup operations for jumps to the Jenkins community, I think it's something we could help with. For example, I'm working on some meetups in Scandinavia and Russia just to recover. Okay. If I had whatever official permission, et cetera, to work on them directly, if I was organizer of them, I would be able to work on them without involving the ACTF operations team. So we could follow to these topics. So I- Okay, yeah, that's totally fine. I did, I do have a quick update on that. I met with our account manager yesterday. And one of the things that we're trying to also do, so my entire budget for meetups is $25,000 for 2020. And so we just have to be mindful of like the types of groups that we add back because then we'll run out of money because I didn't forecast high enough. I thought 25,000 would be enough. So now that we're at 60 groups, she gave me a quote that our next billing cycle is gonna be about $7,000. So we are, for the year, we've already paid about 18,000 or we will be paying about 18,000. So just FYI on that. But I'm happy to add you as an organizer for those. But I think that the way that we scale, let's be strategic about it because we can't fund all of them unless we figure out how to get money to pay for them. I totally agree with you and I'm on the same page. And actually one of my agenda items is to start thinking about meetups which are already recovered. The problem with the current situation that for example you can take this meetup in Stockholm, it has been recovered. The problem that organization team wasn't recovered. And right now this meetup is just a dead weight because nobody can really do anything with that. CDF is planning for that. So that's why I'm bringing up this proposal that for example, if you give me whatever formal blanket authorization to work with metup.com support team, I could just handle these separations for meetups or maybe together with other advocacy and outreach sick members. Because yeah, my goal is to also reduce the cost. I do not have a goal to recover all meetups. The current situation is just sub-optimal for everyone because CDF pays, but actually the meetups to more operational. Yeah, no problem. Let me work on that. So yeah, if, I'm not sure how it will be implemented. If you just for example sent a message to metup.com support and say that, okay, Alec can handle formal JNK server meetups, et cetera, on behalf of CDF. For me, it would be enough. But I'm not sure if it's something you could do. Yeah, let me ask her. That was the one thing we forgot to discuss yesterday on the agenda. But yeah, let me work on that. Nope, that's not a problem. Yeah, because, yeah, thank you. And the message about budget is about the receipt. So basically our interest is to reduce the metup numbers right now. Yep. Okay, I got it. Okay, and last but not least, Jenkins, NCDF and GSOC. So I guess then it's still busy, right? Let me see. Thanks for now. Okay, yeah, he's not answering. So he must still be on that other call. Mm-hmm. Okay, so what do we do? I can just provide overview of the problems I see. Alec, yeah, why don't you document all the issues that you see on the CDF mentor pages and then follow up with Dan online? Because like I said, I didn't even know that we had applied. I got the notification when we got accepted and I think it was Dan who applied on our behalf. So yeah, just document everything and then I think he'll be able to go and update that. Or the other thing too is you can open a ticket. Why don't you open a ticket so it gets tracked on GitHub? Yeah, so the problem is timing because I sent a message, basically one CDF got accepted. I already listed some of the problems in CDF Slack. This Dan in CC, basically he didn't reply at that point. And now it's March 5th. So student application period opens next week. And if the issues don't get fixed by that, we will be negatively impacted as a Jenkins organization. And in the case of CDF organization, you have a big problem because basically you don't have documentation. You don't have ideas list and whatever. I'm not sure that Jason was going to fly in the current state. Okay, yeah. So that's why I asked for this meeting because we have a problem. Okay, yeah, I mean, like Dan is your point guy on that one, I'm sorry I can't help. But I pinged him already a few times. So you might just wanna see if you can give him a call on Slack. Meanwhile, we also have a potential student on the call for the Jenkins X projects. I just wanna make sure that Slayden, before I ask this question. So the Jenkins X projects that currently reside on the project ideas under the Jenkins banner, those will not be moving to the CDF. I just wanna make sure that I'm correct on that. Yeah, that's correct. We had a meeting last week, Kara participated and Kara referenced this decision. So Jenkins X project is known as Jenkins organization. Okay. So Slayden, I'm one of the potential mentors on that project along with Kara and James. So I just, so you know this falls under Jenkins not under the CDF. Yeah, yeah, perfectly, yeah. Yeah, so the ideas are here. Yeah, there is still a non-zero risk that somebody sends applications to CDF with Jenkins projects. And if it happens, we will have to deal with that in April. But yeah, right now everything is just on the Jenkins side. So yeah. Have you guys gotten any applications or like? Well, do you mean have you received applications? Yeah, has anybody applied or? So official application starts. Oh, okay, got it, got it. Yeah, so it's actually on the 16th. Yeah, so you can see that it's here. So it's March 16th. But we have let's say a few dozens of students who have already reached out, who made some contributions, who submitted proposal drafts. So Jenkins project is definitely Ryan. And we got first contracts from students three months ago or so. So Jenkins project is running. For CDF, it might be a problem because for example, I can show you the problem here. You can go to the ideas list and you get to project life cycle, which I would say has nothing to do with these project ideas. And this example, yeah. I have no idea who set that up, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's perfectly fine. Yeah, but today there was a contributor from Tickton project asking CDF slug because they also got confused. Yeah. If you get confused, you have options. So for example, yeah, there are contacts. So there is contact with CDF foundation, maybe increased for CDF foundation. Chat link points to slug. And well, it points to slug, but it points to the link which users who are not a part of the slug can use. So you can enter this link if you click and maybe increased, yeah, you go to the page, but actually you end up here with, yeah. So just mainly at least the CDF foundation. I'm not sure what they were saying you, traffic. And this is what's creating all of them, like I said, mass confusion. Everybody's hanging. Okay, yeah, no problem. Yeah, so let's all call Dan if you guys can't get a hold of him and let him know that that needs to be updated ASAP. I'm sorry, I just don't have access to it or else I would have just gone in and done it now. So same, if you just give access to me or to Marky, I believe that we can help to fix critical issues. So for example, technology labels, descriptions so that we can cross link to the project. Yeah, but yeah, let me, yeah, I'll let Dan know. I'll call him right afterward. Okay, thank you. Yeah, no problem. Sorry about that. No, things happen. But if you participate in JSOC as an organization, you definitely need to think about ideas list because you're right now hard to student students. Yeah, okay, no worries. Okay, so if we can help somehow, we have basically 24 seven chat for JSOC and Jenkins Gitter. So everybody from my CDF foundation can join and we will do our best to provide guidelines. And the boss me and Marky also in the CDF Slack so we can help there as well. Yep, thank you guys. Thank you too. So I guess we cannot really do anything in regards to this topic here. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna drop off then. Okay, thank you. Do we have any other topics to discuss? I don't think we have anything. Tracy had to drop. I think our main thing was just getting the confusion ironed out for the different programs. So I think or Sladen, Sladen, I will be reviewing your doc today. I know I said I do it yesterday, but I got completely swamped on something. So I will be reviewing your doc today. Same for me, I'm reviewing your Jenkins applications. Yeah, yeah, I'm working on that. Yeah, thanks for that. Yeah, Sladen is quite productive. Yeah. Since we are not focusing on each SIG, did you have a chance to update community bridge project page? Yeah, yeah definitely. I've been busy with the proposals, yeah, so I'll get it done, yeah. Okay, it would be much appreciated because we would really want to send out more content with regards to community bridge. Yeah, sure. And I'm working, for example, yeah, I'm working on a key study together with Linux Foundation about our project, et cetera. So if we have all materials in good shape, it would be really great. Yeah, sure, I'll be as much as possible. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you so much, guys. Okay, then, yes, thanks all. Thank you everybody. I'll see you online. Yeah, thanks, guys, thanks a lot.


what did you think of the job her mom did to keep you in the game and go on to give you six innings. Yeah I mean a remarkable performance considering how that first inning unfolded you know to to go punch out and then to have the ball pop out of Gardi's glove there and then the blue double by or the broken bat double by Ramirez and you know ball just out of the reach or off the glove of 40 and then he doesn't handle a ball back to him which which actually is what hurt him frankly in the Toronto game his first start of the year a couple of come backers he couldn't handle and to have the pitch count where it was it's one of those are you gonna have to get somebody up in the first and he just settled in and got incredibly pitch efficient and just gave us a huge outing and then a lot of a lot of good things happen from there and and proud of the guys for not you know because that first inning with with what we've been going through they didn't let it snowball and really did a lot of good things the rest of the way just what were you thinking considering what this team has been going through over the last couple weeks as things are unfolding during that first inning and not going in your direction. Yeah certainly there's some frustration there in the first inning but you know I thought I thought the guys did a really good job of just kept on competing and and I thought you know up and down the lineup there are a lot of really competitive at bats some important at bats some at bats where we we came through with some things where it's been a struggle for us and then obviously you know behind Domingo a really good job by the bullpen you know I thought I thought between Rugi and and Glaber up the middle they made some some good plays defensively so it's just you know what started out obviously very rough turned into a really good night. You mentioned Glaber offensively on base three times tonight what was different about his approach or what he was able to do at the plate. I feel like I've seen him games where where I feel like this is coming you know the last couple weren't great and it was you know it's just been when he has had games where I feel like he's getting his A swing it's been foul ball or you know that fly ball he hit to right field maybe his first step was that his first or second at bat where that's a pitch that he usually you know sticks in the gap or does some damage with and I just felt like he was putting that ball in play on a line tonight when he got a pitch to handle and I just thought took really good at bats all night long. Respect go ahead and unmute. Aaron Samora Glaber what about the way that he responded after what happened yesterday how do you look at that? Yeah I mean he's look Glaber's been working Glaber cares and he knows he knows like a lot of these guys as I continue say they know deep down how good a player they they are and will be and you know sometimes you got to go through some junk to to to get to the to get through and to punch through and I just thought he played very much under control today. I thought he played the game with some joy and you know when he's doing that you know he's a dangerous guy. Seven different guys got hits how different is it than just having one guy contributing in the lineup and that's been the case a few times in the last week or so. Yeah I mean it's nice I mean you know when the other night against Atlanta you know I felt like there was a lot of contributions in that and the same same tonight obviously on the pitching side of things but up and down the lineup you know even even the guys that didn't have big offensive nights you know contributed in in in some way shape or form to allow us to break through a little bit and actually you know put up a good number on the offensive side.  How encouraging was it to see I think you guys loaded the bases three times tonight multiple base runners and a bunch of innings just you guys hadn't really hadn't had that in a while. Yeah that's us you know and you know you know that's what we're about is giving ourselves chances and obviously you're not going to come through every time but the more opportunities the more pressure you're putting on the defense and the opposing pitcher and making them make stressful pitches you know over time and eventually we're gonna we're gonna break through and you know those that's when you're you're able to put up some good offensive numbers so very encouraging you know after last night you know at least you know we started to create a little bit of traffic I think we walked five or six times last night even though it was a tough offensive night on a cold night and today you know I felt like there was a kind of that team at bat thing going on where you know it wasn't I have to do it all by myself it was let me go up and have a good at bat and hopefully you know this is something we can continue to build on. And would you have had Gio late tonight and do you expect him to play tomorrow? I think I think he'll probably be in there tomorrow yes he was more emergency tonight. Thank you. Eric Baldwin go ahead. Erin you've talked since your first year about controlling the zone what does nine walks tell you tonight? Now when we ended up with nine? Yeah I mean that's a hallmark of our success you know talk about hits and stuff all the time but it's about getting on base and about creating traffic and giving yourself opportunities. And then you know you know I think eventually our power's gonna gonna show up and and the bottom line is the more times we're getting on base and creating that traffic you know that's that's when we're gonna be able to score in big time ways and that's who we are and that's who we have to be and it was good to see us you know follow up frankly last night where you know I thought we took a lot better bats late in that game to give ourselves a little bit of a chance you know to follow that up tonight with more competitive at bats hopefully it's it's it's the guy starting to start to roll a little bit. And is Kyle forcing his way into the lineup or forcing himself into consideration more? Yeah I mean look I even go back to last year and a lot of the conversations about you know him getting in there and obviously getting getting to play some in the playoffs is about you know his performance you know I mean he's he's a really good catcher we've seen the bat continue to improve and improve and yeah he's creating more opportunity for himself.


Good morning Hickets Tuesday. I was struck by something the Sierra Leone and footballer Mustafa Bundu recently said to a reporter. He said we want people to see the positives in our country football-wise, but also in other areas of life, so that when you talk about Sierra Leone, you aren't just mentioning war, Ebola. And over the years of working to support a stronger healthcare system in Sierra Leone, we've focused a lot on the real and important injustices that led to the country's But today I want to tell you a joyful story. A soccer story. Okay, quick background. So every four years, all the best men's national teams in Africa play each other in the African Cup of Nations, which Sierra Leone had not qualified for in 26 years. The Leone Stars, as they are known, are currently ranked number 108 in the FIFA national rankings, but after a couple big results in qualifying by June of 2021, they found themselves one win away from making the African Cup of Nations. They just needed to beat Benin. The hero of that game would be Kai Kamara, who began his career playing for a team in Freetown before coming to the U.S. as a refugee when he was 16, where he played college soccer and then had a long and distinguished career in MLS. Kai Kamara had long dreamed of representing Sierra Leone at the African Cup of Nations, but by the time of the Benin game, he was 36 years old. He knew this was his last chance. And he came through. The Leone Stars won a somewhat controversial penalty, and Kai Kamara scored, and back home the celebrations erupted around the country because Sierra Leone had qualified for its first major tournament in 26 years. Just making the tournament was a huge accomplishment, as the national anthem played before their first game last week. Kai Kamara and several of his teammates had tears in their eyes. Nobody thought they had a chance in the tournament itself, like most experts ranked Sierra Leone 23rd or 24th out of the 24 competing nations, and in the group stages they had to play two of the best teams in Africa, Algeria and Cote d'Ivoire. Both those countries have 11 players who play their professional football in Europe's top leagues. Sierra Leone has none. If you're not into football, it can be hard to understand just how huge of an underdog Sierra Leone is in this tournament, but think of it this way. They're starting goalkeeper, 22-year-old Mohamed Kamara plays for East End Lions, a professional team based in Freetown. In his first game in the African Cup of Nations, he faced shots from Riyad Mahrez, who just won the Premier League with Manchester City. And yet, Mohamed Kamara stopped those shots. In fact, he stopped every shot in that game, which Sierra Leone tied 0-0. Never has a tie felt so much like a win. After the game, when he was handed the Player of the Match trophy, Mohamed Kamara burst into tears, and all around Sierra Leone, people poured into the streets, honking horns, waving flags, and singing the anthem. Four days later, against Cote d'Ivoire, Mohamed Kamara saved a penalty using the brilliant and somewhat unconventional strategy of standing behind the goal line before the ball was kicked. But even so, in the last minute of the game, they were down 2-1, and it seemed quite hopeless. And in my head, I was already writing this video about how they lost the game, but they did their country proud. But wait, no! The opposing keeper made an error, and Sierra Leone and striker Alhaji Kamara somehow recovered from a stumble and dinked the ball over a defender and scored, and it was 2-2, a second miraculous draw in as many games. Again, the celebrations reverberated throughout the entire country, celebrating the result, yes, but also celebrating the heart of their players, their tenacity, their belief. This is a country that is growing and growing together. On Thursday, the Leone Stars will play Equatorial Guinea, and if they can somehow win, Sierra Leone will complete the impossible, qualifying for the knockout stages of the African Cup of Nations. The world will be watching, and hopefully celebrating, with the people of Sierra Leone. Hank, I'll see you on Friday.


check it out folks back at it again with another great chef right I got my buddy right here Todd you guys might know him from Instagram known as what chef Todd right? Chef Todd. Right so this is you guys check him out his name is probably underneath him right there you know I'm saying so look go by check out what he do he creates and cooks right in my realm probably your realm too now with that being said we finna do it what is this a crunch wrap right hey you got to say supreme though a supreme crunch wrap you got to say that so check it out I'm not finna over talking we finna get right into it all right so look check it out I want you guys to come on here take a look at this right here right so I'm getting ready to go ahead and you know season my ground beef which is like that's the key you want them to taste great and all of that it starts right here right and fresh ingredients am I correct? Yes you're right okay so look I'm gonna be using the flat top listen I got it divided up hot zone here so an imaginary line goes here over here is hot just want to do all my cooking and over here is where I keep everything warm all right are you good yeah so I'm gonna turn it over to you and let you go ahead and do your thing because we don't use pre-shredded cheese right yeah we're gonna freshly grate up our cheese like grandma used to do so as I was stating earlier listen we got to put some seasoning in here that's two pounds of that 80-20 right now you don't want to like overwork your meat right you don't want it to be just like compressed and all of that I like for it to be this way and listen when you're using my seasoning you guys can come in and take a look at that that's that beef seasoning when you're doing that beef you want to have this just right here makes for some amazing flavor right when I like about it just along with the fact that it tastes great but the fact that you can like look at it and you can see it in your you know your meat or whatever you season it you can tell if you got it throughout so I'm just really just kind of like just folding it over trying to keep it not so dense so I'm gonna just put a little bit of this you know vegetable down right here look I'm just gonna move this around even though I'm not over here on this side I like to keep my grill a little bit alright now while I'm doing that right we're just gonna take this no particular way and just drop this on the top right now we're about to go ahead and straight up the lettuce okay cut the stem off throw it out of way you don't need that so after you go in and start jacks up your lettuce you're gonna take it and transfer to the bowl let this sit to the side and then go ahead and go inside and cut up a tomato so we'll cut the tomato the way I like to cut my tomato I cut the stem off show me but let me see your skill and I take it take the guts out of it I'll see that that way you don't have that mushy exactly I don't like that part okay that's the nasty part I got you I got your guts out of it all right me go ahead and slice it hey you like that knife right there right I love this knife this is very sharp yes sir maybe gonna let me know what he likes on dice up the onions throw the bad boys right here on the grill there you go caramelize them up alright folks so as you saw you know chef Todd he went ahead and did the the sous chef thing right now I'm just gonna go ahead and mix this together I don't want to take the onions all the way down and I left some of the onions check it out I left some of the onions raw because when you say supreme they kind of like come like that but for me you know I like to like put a little heat on my onion right okay talk do you think man come on here with it I know what we use in season we're gonna put the luxury love one there a little bit of extra love we got some pepper got some paprika got some cumin okay so look we got to fire right here now what's the next thing we're gonna do pull out the wraps don't forget I got this all on super low that don't go okay don't pull the wraps out all right it's how we want to assemble it but these things right here I'll slap it down boom yeah this is the part right here that you got to pay attention to folks for everybody let me go ahead and get that up yeah there you go stay tuned look I mean get close and looking close into how we do this here I got your nice you know what a crunch wrap right it's about to be a crunch wrap everybody right right right now the soft wrap right right when I don't see the hair and just lay him right let it right there there you go and let that bad boy toast from that side and once it toasts when outside get nice and crunchy you're gonna flip it over and do the same thing on other side you're gonna take it off for there we'll cut down the middle and it's gonna look nice and beautiful in the middle the checkers are cheap I'm finna go in here right now and get down to do me you know I mean I want to do this show me what you got some of your artwork over here I gotta show you you did it a little differently I'm gonna come with my little cheese right here okay I liked it a little bite and it's kind of like hold it together too right to do a little bit of this right here all right I'm gonna still come with this for the flavor that's why we chose that right a little spicy cheese just to put some on there I put it in the middle because when I smash it down you know it's gonna spread right now I'm gonna leave it like that now I'm finna come with this piece right here right I don't want to like make nothing break but I'm gonna push it down I like to get flat like this you know me for this little bit of a technique now oh I see what you did now I'm gonna come with this little bit of a shredded lettuce you know I mean just a little bit we just put this on here like that right don't need a whole lot you gotta have some tomatoes you gotta have gotta have an extra crunch to it yes it's all about that texture right so if you guys pay attention remember I smashed down it's nice and full right so now we'll take this piece that we have right here we just push this down again like this and hopefully I can come back over the top like this I'm gonna do it the way you did it whoops like that like that like that like that like that and this one here like that right yeah I'm gonna take it I'm gonna take it around like this if you guys look at it if it don't look like a stop sign something wrong all right man you ready yep here we go here we go I'm about to cut it open look at that the layers on layers Supreme Crunchwrap so check it out folks I got a smile on my face because I'm super happy you guys seen the results listen these are super easy now here's the trick stay with us the reason we made these cuz listen we doing something after I'm gonna let him go and tell you what we make tomorrow we making some Cajun seafood cornbread dressing hey did you hear that folks that's a whole mouthful what I'm getting ready to do is open to go in and get one of these because listen it's break time cheers bro cheers bro thank you AB for allowing me to come here and cook with you you guys can follow me and find me on tiktok and Instagram my handler is at at chef tie the chef underscore tie 951 hey he couldn't have said it better myself so check it out folks you know how I do I'm out peace


Anybody remember Sears, Circuit City, Hollywood Video, Blockbuster, those are all stores that have closed.  But right before they get ready to close, they usually have a sign that says, everything must go. And what this means is that customers can take advantage of getting things that they would normally pay a higher price for, before a little bit cheaper. And these things may still be high quality, but because the entire company, the store is about to shut down, you can take advantage. Now the Panthers, they find themselves seeming to be ready to shut down. They just fired their head coach. They got a terrible record. Things are not looking really good. And usually when things line up like that, everything must go. So to talk about some of those things that could possibly go and some of the things that the Ravens could possibly take advantage of, we brought on a very special guest. All right, so Team Keep It Clean, very, very special guest in the building. My guy Nick from the Nitty Gritty Sports Talk, first and foremost, before we get into this, let everybody know who you are, where they can find you at and exactly what it is that you do. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you having me on and Graven. This is Nick from Nitty Gritty Sports Talk, comprised of four co-hosts, all from Baltimore, basically giving it to you raw, you know, as far as Baltimore Sports Talk, national sports news. We have three resident Ravens co-hosts and then a Steelers fan. So it brings an interesting dynamic. You know, obviously we're familiar with each other in the AMC North, but we all live in Baltimore, so we all kind of know what's going on with each other's teams. We cover football, baseball, basketball. We've had Ravens on the show, form NBA players, D1 college basketball players, coaches. You know, you name it, mostly all from the area. So we try to definitely give that spotlight back to Baltimore athletes because sometimes those stories are forgotten. So you know, we definitely try to revive those stories for lack of a better term. And yeah, you can find us on Twitter and Instagram, Instagram at Nitty Gritty Sports Talk and Twitter at Nitty Gritty 410. And the link you'll find, link to all our podcasts, you can view the catalog and so on and so forth. All right, I appreciate that. And I will have all that stuff linked down below in the description just to make it easy for people to search for it. Now one thing that I noticed about you, especially on Twitter that I really appreciate, because there's not too many people that are like this, because a lot of people can be kind of be afraid to sort of go against the grain or whatnot, but I always appreciate how honest you are and how straightforward you are in your takes, especially when it comes to the Baltimore Ravens. Because a lot of people just like to go with the flow and, hey, to each his own. And that's fine. But I appreciate the straightforwardness that you bring with that. So thank you for that. Keep doing your thing. Keep shining, man. Yeah, for sure. And don't get it twisted. We love our Ravens. Yeah. No, yeah, yeah. For sure. And that's, for me, in my opinion, honesty is the best way to be really about anything. If you got your friends, if you got a friend that's that you love, you love them dearly. But you see, hey, you messing up, man. You got to let them know. You got to let them know. And don't be afraid to tell them because if you just continue to let them mess up, then are you really a true friend? So for sure. Anyway, the Ravens, you talked about how y'all have a lot of people from Baltimore on a podcast. You've had a lot of athletes from Baltimore on the podcast. But there's one athlete who is from Maryland. And he's on a team right now that's been going through it, the Carolina Panthers. They brought over Baker Mayfield, they can work. They brought over Sam Donna, they can work. They brought over Matt Rule. It ain't been working. So they got them up out of there. So now it's looking like, hey, people might come available because we've seen it happen time and time again with teams, if they fired a head coach, especially this early in the season, it's weak fire. They fired Matt Rule and they fired, they fired the defensive coordinator. They fired, I think, specialty. They fired a couple of coaches. A lot of times in these situations, other teams can benefit because when a team fires a head coach, especially a team that's been struggling for a long time like the Panthers, other teams can start to pry the players away and whatnot. So the Baltimore Ravens right now, they're sitting at three and two. You know their strengths. You know their weaknesses. Is there anybody from the Carolina Panthers who you would like to see the Ravens trade for? Of course, you know, there's some popular names out there, but who would you prefer? So if I had my wish, you know, if I could dream and get whatever I wanted, obviously it'd be DJ Moore. He's already done the Maryland Jersey, so he's familiar with the area.  So that would be dope. But then you also have to recognize the fact that he just resigned for three years, 62 million dollars. You know, so to get him or to acquire him, we would be asking Eric DeCosta and the organization to not only fork up that money, but also fork up draft picks. Because Carolina is just not going to give him away. The whole point for them to trade any of these players is to accumulate assets, accumulate draft picks as they start their rebuild. So that would be a tough ask. I think the more realistic option was Robbie Anderson. He has a cheap contract. His draft capital probably, you know, as far as what we have to give up will be cheap. And then, you know, I believe he's a rental as well. So that would lower his price a little bit on that accord. I think Robbie Anderson would be a perfect fit because I love what I'm seeing out of Devin Duvenay. He's honestly surprised me. The way he's being used, the way Greg Roman has decided to use him, I'm honestly impressed. So you add that with Bateman, right? So he's your traditional Y receiving one in that X-Roll.  Like, it's so many options. I don't think we just want the two pieces away on offense from being the consistent top level elite offense that we want to be. And I love how you put that with the phrase that you use, so many options. And that would be a beautiful thing to have, especially got Lamar Jackson. Right now, the primary options have just been Mark Andrews, of course, as we know, he wanted the best tight ends in the game. And Bateman, of course, before he got hurt in Devin Duvenay. Now, as far as the options currently in Baltimore, Duve been doing this thing. I call him now. Duve do it all, Vinay. And like you mentioned, he was a big surprise to me. I'm just a pleasant surprise, though. I'm really, very happy to see exactly what he's doing. Like you mentioned how Greg Roman is being used in them. But the other options, they've been a little quiet. They've been like really quiet. And as far as both tight ends and wide receivers, how you feel right now about Approche, the Tylen Wallace, Isaiah likely, Oliver, even maybe Nick Boyle, too. Because we haven't even really seen him on the field at all. Yeah, so as far as those names are concerned, it's still wait and see. There are a lot of youth and inexperience in that group of names that you mentioned. As far as Pro-Shea and Tylen Wallace, I think Tylen Wallace had an opportunity to make a play. It was just a bad throw by Lamar. So it was good to see him get that type of separation deep. So wait and see on that. As far as the tight ends, Isaiah likely. I mean, we're asking a lot out of somebody from coastal Carolina who, coming into the draft, we knew there were some blocking concerns. And to make it on the field as a Baltimore Raven as a tight end, you got to be able to do both because our run game is our priority. Right? So when he comes in the game, defense is kind of already know, OK, he's on the field, it's probably going to be a pass play. So once he gets offseason in the weight room, that's when I think he'll be the guy that we think he'll be. And as far as Nick Boyle, he went through a gruesome knee injury. And the thing that kind of saved JK Dobbins in that regards, he was one of the most athletic players that we've seen in the last five years. Nick Boyle, not so much, right? So I do think EDC should make a move to bolster the offense for depth purposes, mostly, you know, if Bateman goes down, you do have DuVernay, but behind DuVernay, it's kind of sketchy. And we don't want to get into a position where we have to react. I'd rather be prepared for any situation. I love it. Stay ready so you ain't got to get ready. You know, one aspect of this Ravens team where they were ready, but injuries kind of change everything. And then they went into the season kind of ill prepared was at the pass rush position because it was just Justin Houston and Adafi away. They had called up Steven Means for a game and literally on the first play that Steven Means got in, he got hurt. The season was done. Of course, we know the story with a job. Oh, he's not ready yet. And with Tyus Bowser, he wasn't ready to start the season. I really thought that week five, I thought he was going to be back after week four and he was going to play week five for sure. But we haven't heard anything about him yet. So we'll see when the Ravens practice tomorrow, if he's back or not. And then go from there. But the pass rush position, Brian Burns from the Carolina Panthers. Do you think it will be worth it? Especially the Ravens got they got Adafi away. They got JPP and he had a real good game the other day. But do you think of Brian Burns of making a move for him could be worth it for the Baltimore Ravens? He's a special. He's a special talent.  So if you can get him at value or at a cost in which you're OK with, you know, I will pull the trigger 10 times out of 10. One thing I will give Edc credit for is he seems to be able to find value at the linebacker position. I'm not going to say pass rush, but at the linebacker position. So if we had a choice between wide receiver and going to get a Burns, I might lean towards wide receiver just because that's more of an immediate need. I think our defense, honestly, our defense has been playing a lot better over these last two weeks. I think starting to get a lot more comfortable in the new scheme and what McDonald wants to do. And also, I think I can be a tad bit encouraged by the pass rush. JPP was making a lot of plays. We actually we haven't seen him with the entire pass rush crew. I'd like to see him and how he looks with Houston and how they play off each other as well as away and then Bowser, who's a versatile one of our most versatile defenders on the team. When he gets back and then maybe if you sprinkle in O'Jabbo towards the stretch run, who knows, the possibilities are ending. But defensively, I am liking how it's trending. We're trending up in that regard. Yeah, yeah, you ain't lying about that because the the first week against the Jets, it was like, OK, all right, we got something here. Then for a while against the Dolphins, it was looking like, all right, it's continuing. And then, of course, we know how that fourth quarter went. Got really ugly. And then even against Mac Jones in week three, I think he threw for over 300 yards in the first half. He was looking ugly, but he was he was picking on he was picking on the rookies and he was picking on Brandon Stevens. And that was smart of the Patriots to take advantage of the young corners because more than Humphrey Marcus Peters have been doing their thing. But then against the Beals and against, of course, Joe Burrow and the Bengals, Ravens defense, they've been holding their own. So it seems like they really are turning a corner with that pass defense. And if they could bolster that pass rush, if the pass rush could continue to make improvements and they can make strides, then I really do think this defense could take a huge step forward. But the last thing you mentioned is that if it came down to having a pick between a wide receiver and a pass rusher, you would take a wide receiver. And I agree. I do agree with that, especially this current state of the Ravens because I feel like that would just do so much for them. One thing that does get lost in the win against the Bengals, something that is still a big factor is the second half scoring offense. The Ravens and I didn't even realize this, but the Ravens, they didn't get a touchdown. In the second half of the game, it was just field goals. And we love that they took their points because they played a lot smarter than the previous week, but the scoring offense has still been an issue. And that would be one of my biggest reasons for one of them to get a receiver, especially if they had the choice. I would love, like, I would love a DJ more, love it, love it, love it. Don't think it's going to happen, but I would love it. Well, Robbie Anderson, I do think is a little bit more realistic, especially like you mentioned, when you talked about the contract. And if you could pick, and I know that's kind of a crazy question, but if you could pick any wide receiver for the Ravens to trade for or any pass Russian for the Ravens to trade for before the trade deadline to really help get this team over the top. I know. Yeah, I know. That's just for any. It doesn't have to be realistic. Any, any. Listen, if it's if we're not talking being realistic, give me Debo. Somebody who somebody who could get yards after the catch consistently for Lamar. So somebody that can turn 10 yards into 80, you know, that's sometimes that's all the offense needs. And that's and that's kind of why I was going towards that wide receiver overpass Russia kind of point of view. Because sometimes you just need skill talent to help your quarterback. It doesn't always have to be Lamar making the 60 70 yard throws. Sometimes like versus the I think it was the Patriots game, not sorry, excuse me, wasn't the Patriots game. It was the jest game where Rashad Bateman caught that slant and took it to the house. Sometimes it's things like that where, you know, just one play can turn around a game. One play can make a court of an important difference for your quarterback. How his day is going between the catch and an incompletion or catch in the interception sometimes. So that's a tough question to ask, because if I could have my pick of the litter, boy, I'd have a whole fantasy team in Baltimore. I think we all would, man. But yeah, just it's about making your quarterback's job that much easy. And that's what really good wide receivers do. They help them out.  You mentioned earlier kind of going back to Carolina and not scoring in the second half. One thing that I did want to mention is I was watching the Carolina, San Francisco game and they were talking about Kyle Shanahan, right? And one of the things that they were mentioning is Kyle Shanahan goes into a game with the script. So he scripts or 21 plays something like that. Yeah. And then I have Tom rips up that script. And it's an entire new script based on the field of the game. And that's something that I would love to see Greg Roman do more often not saying that he doesn't do it. It's just the optics. It seems like we come with the script and we stick with the script as opposed to adjusting and adapting. If we could do that, like we're tweaks away from being the Super Bowl team that we want to be, we have the talent, we have the coaching, we have the minds, we just have to approach, approach the game plans and and, you know, just the field of the game, even going back to Harbaugh's decision making, just feel the game over analytics and all of that. Yeah, I agree with that whole hardly feel it again. Over analytics, because it's not a computer out there on the football field. It's the players, man. And in the heat of the moment, you just got to go with your gut. Don't go with the numbers. Go with your gut and try to win. But anyway, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you sharing some of your time with us.  Again, you can find us on Instagram and nitty gritty sports talk, Twitter, nitty gritty 410. Check us out. Our link is on the bio. Always appreciate engraving vids. 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