So if you're not a subscriber to our Patreon, uh, RSS audio, you missed a rousing discussion of spoilers between Patrick and I. I'm a proponent of not watching trailers and Tom is berating me for it. That is not true. But how you won't be able to know unless you subscribe to our Patreon and get the RSS. That is not true or or is it? You know what we should do? We should build a trailer for this episode. You wouldn't appreciate it, actually, you wouldn't even be able to watch it. I wouldn't, but some people might enjoy it. You know, that was from seeing me. Why is my internet so slow? It's all this talk of trailers.  I wish I wish I wish the chat room says our favorite Frenchman is back. I saw it made me happy. That's not an insult to say Frenchman. Is it? I mean, it's not because saying American is an insult. That Frenchman has to be as well. Well, but it's Frenchman, right, rather than just French person. Well, it's interesting because if you say China, man, that's their offensive. Well, that's because it's not how you call a person from China. But you could just because you say Chinese.  I mean, that's kind of clearly not. I don't know how you say it. Yeah, that's the problem is Patrick. He's a French. Then it sounds like an insult. That's the one that sounds like it. Yeah, French yourself. What are you trying to say? I'll French you. All right. I think we're good. Sorry. Yeah, this is from CNBC, and it was from their quotes page. Delete that portion of it. All right, I'm going to get ready to go. You guys ready to go? I was born ready. That's I've heard that somewhere. Oh, wait a minute. I need control control. Hold on. Oh, there. That's where I heard it. All right. You have control. OK, here we go. Daily Tech News Show is powered by its audience, not outside organizations. To find out how you can help power the show, visit dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, April 18th, 2017. I'm Tom Merritt. That eight in April 18th stands for Patrick Beja is back. I thought I was going to say a thing. Oh, what a fateful day for me to get back on this show. To have our mate back with us. I'm out. Yeah, me too. Thankfully, these are almost as bad as the jokes Mark Zuckerberg made about Fade of the Furious and F8 at the beginning of his keynote today. We are, of course, going to talk about the F8 conference and the announcements that Facebook made there. That is our main topic today. The brief version for some reason, you don't make it through to the end of the show. We hope you do is that augmented reality is the future and they've got improvements for the bot platform on Messenger. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. AMD revealed its lineup of Radeon RX 500 graphics cards Tuesday. It's a little more overhead for overclocking, not a whole lot of other changes over the 400 series, ranging in price from $80 to $230 per card. Snapchat announced World Lenses, an augmented reality function that can add 3D virtual objects to any scene. I did one today. It was throwing seeds that would land and turn into flowers. And I like surrounded Ray the dog with flowers in Snapchat. Microsoft has agreed to buy intentional software, which we'll see its founder, Charles Simoni, returned to Microsoft. He's one of the guys that helped build Excel and Word. So welcome back.  That's why they started it. Yeah. Now, here are some more top stories. Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, who, as you may know, from listening to the show, has an excellent track record on this sorts of thing. And Bloomberg's Min Jong Lee teamed up on a report showing sources telling them that Apple will announce three models of iPhone this fall. That reinforces a lot of other analysts and leaks. Two upgrades to the iPhone 7 and a special 10th anniversary edition. The design of the special edition has supposedly not been determined yet because Apple's having problems figuring out the manufacturing of the curved glass and the fingerprint sensor. The idea is to have curved glass with an embedded fingerprint sensor over an OLED screen, but whether they're going to have a steel band or whether they're going to have aluminum on the back, that's the part they haven't finished up deciding yet. And they need to get those factory orders in. They are going to have an OLED screen, according to these sources. And Apple has apparently ordered around 100 million OLED screens from Samsung and is as usual, sourcing their cameras from Sony. You know, just 100 million. That's whatever. But so it seems to confirm that the fingerprint sensor under the screen is going to happen. And on the other hand, the fact that the design is not finalized might explain all of the back and forth rumors that we've heard for the past few months, and I'm sure are going to keep coming and are making people like Mark Gurman and Bloomberg very happy for Klitz for being able to keep putting out stories. Fingerprint sensor may not happen, though, if they can't figure this out. And then the speculation becomes and we're not saying that either one of these guys have sources on that, but the speculation becomes do they give up on the all glass screen or the all screen front? Do they move the fingerprint sensor to the back? That's what Samsung did with the S8 or would they just abandon the fingerprint sensor and do some sort of other biometric like 3D sensing for unlock? None of those sound like an option in this case, which is probably why Apple is having so much difficulty with this. I think if they don't manage to make it work, it's going to be a very unfavorable comparison to the S8, to the Galaxy S8, because basically all of the features that were rumored for the 10th anniversary edition of the iPhone seem to have been integrated into the S8. So if they don't have something to differentiate, I think a lot of people are going to say, ah, well, you know, that's old news. And the competitive side, the S8 is universally getting good reviews and will be on the market for longer, the longer they take to put out a new iPhone. Talking about Samsung, they say that they have removed the ability to remap the phone. I'm sorry to remap the button meant for the Bixby assistant to do other things. Philip Byrne, who runs the reviews program at Samsung tweeted that the system level behavior was changed and Samsung won't officially support the remapping. XDA reports one user says they have a fully upgraded S8, fully updated S8, which still has the ability to remap the button using the accessibility feature. So probably not officially supported, but maybe possible to do anyway. Well, it was possible to do. A lot of people are saying suddenly it's not possible to do. And the guy from Samsung saying, yeah, we changed that. The XDA report of one user saying they still have it makes me think that maybe they aren't as fully updated as they think they are, or there might be something else going on there. But if I understand this right, the way it was working is that Bixby button was being read by the system as an arrow button, and you could go into accessibility knowing that and reprogram the arrow button to not launch Bixby anymore, but to do something else like launch Cortana, for instance, is what some people were doing. And and so Samsung has changed that so the accessibility system no longer sees that Bixby button. And and basically what Philip Byrne is saying is we didn't do it to thwart you. It could come back if for some reason we changed the accelerabist accessibility system in the future. But if we do, we're not doing it on purpose either way. Yeah, I'm a little bit I don't see how this wouldn't be factored into a willful decision of blocking it or allowing it because it's kind of a big deal on the phone where the assistant and the Bixby assistance specifically is sold as such a big part of the overall experience. And especially now that the Bixby assistant isn't available in English for launch. And I mean, it's a whole it becomes a thing. It's not just well, we don't really think about it. I don't buy that quite, you know, as well, let me give you the scenario and this this is probably I'm thinking this is probably pretty close to the truth. The scenario is no, you're right. Samsung doesn't like the idea of people reprogramming the Bixby assistant. And at the same time, one of the engineers who becomes aware of this goes, oh, that's not the way the accessibility system is supposed to work. They shouldn't be able to do that. This engineer doesn't care about whether the Bixby button can be reprogrammed or not. He just sees it as a fault in the implementation of accessibility. He goes and says or she goes and says, let's implement a fix to that. And their their upper heads say, yeah, yeah, you definitely should implement that fix, which totally has nothing to do with the Bixby button because we don't like that Bixby button being reprogrammed anyway. So yeah, let's make sure that happens. Let's put that P1 on the list, right? So it's both. It's both someone, the fact that this can be done alerting them to a flaw in the way they implemented things and people who don't want Bixby to be reprogrammed, lending their support to getting it fixed soon. It makes sense. Google Earth is back with version nine designed to run in a web browser. By the way, there's now three working versions of Google Earth, depending on whether you're using an app on the desktop or this or that. Version nine can be found at earth.google.com slash web. The Voyager section features 360 degree videos, guided tours, some of them hosted by people from the BBC or Sesame Streets, the Muppets, other scientific experts. There's now an I'm feeling lucky button that will take you to a random point on earth and give you an info card based on info gleaned from Wikipedia, similar to the way the card show up in Google search. It's the same sort of thing. Current version works in the Chrome browser. They do say they're going to add support for other browsers. And there's also an Android app. And they do say they're going to add an iOS app. You know, Google Earth is still very cool. A lot of the functions have sort of been somewhat integrated into maps. But there's something quite magical about looking at the earth and going anywhere you want with that format. And they've added a lot of the discovery, exploration elements to it and make them more fun. I didn't think I was going to like whatever they were going to do with Google Earth, which honestly, I didn't expect them to do anything with Google Earth at this point, but I kind of enjoyed it. So I think it's a very useful and fun tool, maybe, you know, for adults for sure, but maybe for kids as well to show them maybe not every single time go to YouTube and put them in front of an animated thing. But also you can show them Google Earth and walk around. And incidentally, it also shows you some YouTube videos sometimes when they link to those, you know, places where they have interesting stuff. So it brings in everything together from Google. But I hope they I hope they bring it all into one version. Right now it's Google Earth version eight that's still in maps separate from Google Earth version nine here that just came out. And also Google Earth version seven on the desktop, which has, I think Google Mars and Google Moon, and those are the only way to get that now. So you have to have an older version to get some of the features that they haven't rolled in. I hope they hope they end up rolling it all into this new version. Is it really? I can't get Earth on maps. Oh, maybe if you click on the earth, the well, you just said there's Google Earth stuff that's been rolled into maps. That's version eight stuff that's in there. And so you don't get the globe. No, you don't get the well, no, you don't. OK, the talking about the globe, the Olympic Council of Asia said it will include eSports in the 2022 Asian Games in Hangzhou, China. eSports will also feature as a demonstration sport in the 2018 Asian Games in Jakarta, Indonesia. The decision come from the decisions come from a partnership between Alibaba's Adi Sports and the Olympic Council of Asia. The first appearance will be at the Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games, AIMAG, in Turkmenistan, which will include FIFA 2017 MOBA and RTA Games. And first of all, I never missed an opportunity to talk about Turkmenistan. Look it up, it's an interesting country. And RTAs are basically time attacks for speed runners. So that's a very specific kind of eSports. Real time attack, that's what RTA stands for, I'm guessing. Yeah, exactly. You know, the reason I wanted to talk about this is that yesterday you were talking about robots at street corners and how normal that felt after just a little bit of experience with them. I think for eSports, it's getting to the same thing. If you remember, we had a number of stories, maybe one or two years ago, where people were bewildered and sometimes outraged that eSports could be considered something of a sport. Now, of course, in Asia, you know, eSports are really important, especially in Korea and China and some other countries. So it feels natural that if it does seep its way into regular sports, it would be there that it starts happening. But it's still interesting that it's happening at that level. Yeah, this is the steps to the Olympics, right? First appearance in the indoor games in Turkmenistan. Then they take what they learn on putting on that event and make it a demo sport. So you can't medal in it officially, but you do that at the 2018 Asian Games in Jakarta. And then you make it an official sport in 2022. The step after that is, hey, we've got the Olympic Council in Asia doing eSports, maybe we get the Olympic Council somewhere else, maybe North America, maybe Europe also doing it. And then you can lobby for it to be included in the full on Olympic games. I mean, you know, we're talking the 2030s, possibly before this would happen. But you could be seeing people gold medal in MOBAs in the Olympics in the 2030s. If MOBAs are still the thing. If, yeah, if they are. That's kind of an interesting aspect of eSports. Unlike regular sports, they change every five or 10 years. The most popular one, which is the one people carry the most about, rotate and they coming in and out of fashion. So that's going to be interesting to see how they handle that as well. All right. A couple of earnings reports to get to real quickly before we talk about F8. IBM reported revenue of 18.16 billion. That was under the 18.39 billion expected. $2.38 a share versus $2.35 a share that was expected. So they beat on earnings, lost on missed on revenue. 1% gain in earnings per share and a 3% decline in revenue from a year ago, according to IBM. This is the 20th straight quarter of year over year revenue declines for IBM. Companies reorganized around businesses like cloud, analytics, mobility and security back in 2016. Those strategic imperatives represented more than 40% of total revenue according to Ginny Romady. So they're not doing bad, but it still hasn't turned back around for IBM. It's it's a big old battleship that Ginny Romady is trying to move there. And Yahoo earnings came in 1.33 billion, beating 1.23 billion estimated revenues. So that's good news for them. Also beat on net revenue, 833.8 million versus the expected 814 and beat on earnings per share, 18 cents a share versus 14 cents. So I mean, Yahoo is going to become part of Verizon shortly. So these are the waning earnings reports. But but still good news for Verizon there, I guess, right? Yeah. Hey, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in less than five minutes, be sure to subscribe to our other show. It's the perfect pairing to keep you up to date. Daily Tech headlines dot com. So we're going to run through all the F8 announcements here for you folks and give our impressions of them, not necessarily doing them in chronological order, although it's pretty close, going from what we think are the more important announcements first.  And he talks quite a bit about how, hey, we used to be about hooking up friends. Now we want to move into being more civic minded, more community minded above not just your circle of friends, but connecting more than just circles of friends. That was a lot of highfalutin, you know, here's where we're going, rhetoric. But on the more grounded side, he announced an augmented reality platform called Camera Effects coming to anything that uses Facebook camera on smartphones in closed beta today. So you have to apply to get in. But if you're in, you can start using it today. Eventually, it'll be compatible with future augmented reality hardware. Zuckerberg said that accusations of Facebook copying Snapchat were misunderstandings of laying the groundwork for Facebook's new Camera Effects platform. And he said that today shows that we've moved on beyond just adding features. They made frame studio available globally so anybody can use it to create a static filter to upload and appear in a Facebook camera on their friends or a page's fans page and AR Studio. Let's developers create custom effects onto real time face tracking. Developers can apply for early access to the closed beta for AR Studio starting today. Patrick, what did you make of this, especially the part about not just augmented reality platform being the future of Facebook, but but also shows how they're not just ripping off Snapchat when they put all the Snapchat features into Instagram. I would say that I understand how, you know, this is technically different. But really, the only I'm not a Snapchat expert, but the thing I'm seeing is really just a number of different ways of putting, you know, virtual hats on people's faces when they're being filmed or taken pictures of. And I'm I mean, it's kind of a distinction without the difference. This is still, to me, even with this explanation, a Snapchat ties Asian of the features of Facebook that can be applied where it can be applied and even maybe some where it can't be applied. It's it's being forced in a lot of the stuff they demonstrated on stage was not something I could do in Snapchat today. And they're they're trying to show that, like, hey, now that we're unleashing it for developers, we're going to move well past feature imitation. Right. No, I understand that. And yes, that's why I'm saying, you know, technically, it's not the same thing. You're not using the same technology to get to that result. There's a lot of 3D and a lot of like tracking and like. And but still, the result is that you're taking a picture and you're adding effects and apparel and stuff to the people in the picture. And maybe it can be used in the future to do other things in more strictly AR that are going to have other applications, I'm guessing, maybe, but I don't think they showed that in those examples. They really just showed, you know, Super Snapchat or that's how I saw it. It starts to become an argument about like, well, Facebook also didn't invent social networking. Does, you know, does that matter yet? Friendster started this revolution. And my space picked it up and Facebook perfected it. It's the person who perfects it that gets to carry on with it. And when you look at that, I can't remember the analytics company that announced that the top five worldwide non-game apps, they are Messenger, Instagram, WhatsApp, Facebook and Snapchat. Snapchat is number five. So you can make an argument that like, sure, Snapchat may have led this revolution. They certainly weren't the first to ever provide an image sending app, but sending images is hot. It's what people want to do right now. Well, I'm not saying, you know, I'm not folding Facebook for doing it. If anything, I think it's Mark Zuckerberg's genius of sensing early enough what's working in on other platforms and copying it in a way that works for Facebook. I think that is absolutely to his credit. He's been doing it for 10 years and incredibly successfully in every aspect of the platform. But still, when he comes out and says, oh, we're not copying Snapchat. People didn't really understand what we were doing. We're just laying the groundwork for this and that. And I'm like, what's he supposed to do? I'm not, well, don't say anything. I don't think, you know, when they started copying, you know, some other features when they pulled out or sensitive is what you're saying. Yeah, well, honestly, it doesn't matter all that much, but it was funny. I think the other thing that's interesting here, too, is he's talking about images, not necessarily video. Remember last F8, it was all about live and video. And we're a video company today. They talked about themselves as if they're a camera company, which is what Snap always says about themselves. Yeah, I think, you know, in this sense, I can understand how this is more of the beginning of this, you know, feature set and augmented reality. I can absolutely imagine how it would have many other applications and maybe they move away at some point or not move away, but add to just tracking faces and putting funny glasses and hats on them and going to overlaying information on, you know, whatever. The jogging app where you could actually see, like, you know, pace of your friend while they're running and stuff like that. Yeah, a million different things that developers are going to be able to implement if it ever, you know, comes to reality with the, you know, the AR dream actually happens. And maybe that's why that's what he's thinking about when he's saying we're laying down the groundwork for all of this. But I'm not seeing it yet. Yeah, and I still think it's significant that we did not hear them talk about Facebook Live today. I think totally, I think it's not, I mean, I haven't seen it get the kind of traction that one would expect when Facebook does something with its billions of users and the kind of aggressive moves that they've been doing in that area. Today, Facebook Spaces released in beta in the Oculus Store. So this to your point about actual virtual reality type situations, that's happening, too. Facebook Spaces was shown at F8 last year as sort of a thing in progress. Now you'll be able to try it out. So instead of like the AR Studio where it's limited, this is for everybody to try and they're like, it's only 1% done. It's not there yet, folks, but we want you to play around with it. An AI generates your avatar to be as close to your profile photo as possible. You can do some tweaks on it, though. Up to four friends can log in and share a space at once and share the same virtual space and, you know, do things like, oh, here's my apartment I took a 360 degree video of. Let me show you around the new apartment I got, stuff like that. You can also do 3D video calls on Messenger with people not in VR. So you can be in VR and then send a 360 degree video to somebody who's on a phone. Facebook eventually wants to bring this to other VR platforms as well. Yeah, so it's not going to be only for Oculus, although the touch controller was making it really work with the way it would mimic your hand movements. For some reason, that would make it, you know, more real, in a sense, than if you don't have that kind. It's very specific to these types of controllers. But, you know, this one, I'm a little bit more intrigued, interested in. AR is going to be, you know, is potentially going to be really important. I think this could be a big part of the future of the platform of Facebook in itself. I think that the way they phrased it was this is basically point one percent of Facebook vision for the future of what virtual reality is going to be. Trying to say, basically, this is really just the beginning. And I could absolutely see this kind of thing.  And that's a huge achievement, I think. You could see how in the future, when devices become small enough that they're not cumbersome, you could use this potentially to hang out. And that is basically what Facebook is, right? It's hanging out with people in text form. This could make it hanging out in virtual presence form. And that could be, as I was saying, a really big part of what Facebook becomes in the future. And I think it makes sense that you put AR Studio behind a private beta because honestly, one of the coolest things about the AR stuff is, hey, I could leave a note for my friend in virtual space and then only she'll see it. I could leave a note on the fridge for my wife and only she'll see it. That only really works if you don't have to hold your phone up to see it. Right? Like the part of it is not having to remember. Oh, I wonder if there's a note for me there. I better hold my right. So whereas spaces feels like something like, hey, if I do have an Oculus or one of the other VR headsets when it gets compatible, that's something that I'm willing to do. I have friends that are playing games with in virtual reality so we can hang out and chat afterwards in spaces. That that's a that's a logical thing to have people try. And you're only going to get better at it when you have more people trying it and telling you what else they want to do with it. Yeah. And this is still, I mean, as promising as it might be, this is still long ways off as everything VR if we're talking about like mass market, it's not, you know, this year, next year. You mean perfection of it and adoption? Right, right. Yeah, for people to actually want to hang out in in virtual spaces. There's so much that needs to happen first still that it's not going to be, you know, for everyone any time soon. This is usually a minor note for most people's coverage of FAA. But I think it's significant. Facebook is expanding its encrypted account recovery token service beyond just GitHub. They launched it with GitHub to let you store a login token on Facebook. It's sort of a two-factor authentication. Basically, you forget your password. You can request Facebook provide a token to log you in. An SDK will let developers set up a delegated delegated account recovery program and apply to Facebook to start making the feature available to its users. System is important for regions like Africa, Asia Pacific, where a phone number is an unstable second factor identifier. So they they're not going to use email in a lot of these cases. They only are going to use SMS and they might have multiple SIM cards. They might change their phone numbers frequently. So having another way to do this in Facebook is especially in Africa, fairly popular. You this could be an essential thing for for companies to provide as an account recovery system. Yeah, it's really interesting because as much as we want to fight Facebook's ubiquity, this kind of makes sense. And I could absolutely imagine having multiple services linked to Facebook in that way so that, you know, just in case something happens, then, yes, of course, you have to lock up, you know, your Facebook account pretty tight with 2FA and everything. But I'm doing this right now with password managers. And there's always a little bit of, you know, for some people, I think it's going to make sense. And then Facebook becomes a tool for other things than just communication and, you know, information sharing. And I think that might be a significant step for for Facebook. Maybe at some point they're going to start providing other types of services that make them even more embedded in our digital. That's my worry, right? Is I don't want Facebook to be the only place where you can do this. I like this idea. I think it's a it's a good idea. And and people who are smarter than me have looked over the security of it and said it's well implemented. I want there to be a federated system where I don't have to rely on Facebook for this. I I tend to use Facebook to log into things that I don't care about. That's my new throwaway password, right? But I don't like using Facebook to log in things I do care about because I don't want them to be my one single point of failure for all my logins. And so while I would like to take advantage of using this, I want to have multiple options. Facebook launched group bots and a bot discovery tab to Messenger. It's time to play. Did they impress Patrick? AR, not so much. VR did impress you. How about this? Chat extensions lets you use Messenger bots in a group chat. Open table, the NBA Food Network, Wall Street Journal and others are launching group bots today. So you you can follow along with scores, things like that. A discovery tab will show recently used bots so that you can find them easier. You can browse bots by category like a store. You can see trending bots that other people are using and you can search for bots now. Users can see a preview screen of a bot before interacting with it if they're trying to decide whether they want to engage or not. Messenger also got a game tab to access game bots and rich gameplay that allows for turn by turn games. You can also now scan QR codes into Messenger if you want to engage with a bot based on something you're looking at in real life. So I don't know if I would say I'm impressed, but I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of having a bot in a group conversation because then it's not someone quote unquote that you're talking to try to get answers. It becomes a looming presence, listening to what everything you're saying, you know, to what you're saying and then suggesting stuff for budding in here and there saying, hey, I think you might be interested in this. And would you like to use your PayPal to send that money? I was like, no, I just said, make it rain. I don't actually need to pay anything. Exactly. So I think it's a very intriguing, different kind of interaction with the bots that could be either fun, or really annoying. Yeah, no. And I think what they're trying to do is make it easier to discover these bots and decide which ones you are willing to engage with and which ones you're on. Facebook announced its workplace product. That's its Slack competitor is in use in about 14,000 organizations. That's up from a thousand last year. Facebook's working to make workplace compatible with existing compliance and e-discovery tools. That's a fancy buzzword for finding the documents you need at the workplace. Developers can now build bots to run inside workplace chat and groups to automate common processes. Facebook has also added integration of Microsoft OneDrive and Box, among others. Workplace Standard Edition will be available for free. This is a big shot across Slack's bow. Facebook plans on charging only for administrative controls, IT tools and integrations with G Suite, Azure and other enterprise services like that. So they're basically saying your small time business use workplace until you get big enough that you need more admin controls. Yeah, I think that's a pretty important change. And they're also talking about it enough that they are actually committed to making it work. Work in the place. Yeah, exactly. But the thing that amused me the most was the compliance thing, because obviously compliance is a big thing for big companies. And when you're Facebook and you're saying, Hey, let's just use Facebook. All of a sudden you have a lot of other things you have to consider and compliance is really important. And so that's something I'm guessing they didn't really think about when they first launched it. But it is very important for the companies. Yeah, Facebook Analytics also got an upgrade new custom dashboards, put important reports on a single screen, let's users put what's important to them up front. Facebook's also adding some machine learning to surface trends and present them to users in a ranked feed. There's also new ways to connect page activity. With online and offline purchases. That's the kind of thing that is super important if you're somebody who uses these analytics and and engages with Facebook all the time. But most of us probably don't need to see it. Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit. You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. Before we get out of here, we get a perspective every week from Patrick, whether he's in France or Finland. But we don't often enough get a UK perspective for that. You want to check out text message with Nate Langston. What's happened to text message this week, Nate? Thanks, Tom. This week, we learned how one of our nation's biggest broadband providers, Virgin Media, they're sort of like your Comcast, are going to turn people's home Wi-Fi routers into public Wi-Fi hotspots. We also learned that the UK's long time love of contactless credit and debit cards now mean that fewer than perhaps one percent of the entire population here are using things like Apple Pay and Android Pay. All that discussed and more, and it's available at techpodcast.uk. Back to you. I keep waiting for an explosion in contactless payment like Apple Pay and Android Pay. And it seems like the financial institutions. Galaxy Note 7. An explosion. Not that kind of explosion. I guess I got my wish. I just didn't realize it. So yeah, I know I agree. I agree. That's very interesting. You got to check out techpodcast.uk. And also Virgin Media definitely sounds very much like Comcast, because Comcast did exactly the same thing with trying to use people's Wi-Fi access points for wireless service. Well, thank you, Patrick Beja, as always, for joining us. What you got going on these days? I guess my the usual, you know, the shows I do at Frenchspin.com. We just recorded an episode of Le Rendez-vous Tech. If you're done with Nate's podcast and this one, you can go try to listen to tech news in French. That's available at Frenchspin.fr. Actually, it's like F8, but with an R. And listen to Le Rendez-vous Tech. And you can also follow me on Twitter and on Facebook. I'm not Patrick on both of those platforms. Hey, thanks to everybody who gives a little value back to this show for the value they get from the show, including Dave Walton, Richard Montoya, Todd Madison, and so many, many more at patreon.com slash DTNS. Remember, every dollar you give to us is making the show happen. You are the person behind the show. So thank you for producing this show. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern at alphageekradio.com and diamondclub.tv. And our website is dailytechnewshow.com. Back tomorrow with Scott Johnson. Missed him last week, too. Talk to you then. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this program. I went classic on the frog pants thing. Old school. What do we got for titles? How I learned to stop worrying and love the button. Augmented bots. All quiet on the screen front. On the all screen front. Trouble keeping users from remapping your buttons. Jessica, Apple, Facebook's fate of the union. Fate of the union. Oh, Facebook's fate. I like state of the OK. Like a big speed gathered on the keyboard spaces. Book. Trouble. Augmented bots, big speeds. State of the big speed button. Essay state of the iPhone. Please put it this way, do you like any of these? I actually I like Facebook's fate of the union. It's probably Facebook's fate of the union. Yeah, now that I get it, I like that one, too. Patrick, do you like any of these? I wasn't looking. I didn't nothing jumped at me from what Roger was saying. Where was that?  Um, well, if you had to title the show, what would you call it? I would call it a f eight full day. Ah, I actually really like that. Well, there you go. You know, that's this one's on me. This one's. Yeah. Sometimes we just have to go to the hosts. That's fine. It's fine. We share the love, move it around. KV 87 can claim win of the show, but if that if that's important for Facebook's fate of the union, TVZ God just submitted a fateful day so that he can get. Fate of the furious Zuckerberg. So Travis, is it a fateful day or an fateful day? A fateful day, fateful day. Yeah. All right. Just to force people to pronounce it that way. Well, cool. So let me tell you all about the trailer. I'm going to hang up. It had a scene and then another scene. And then there was spoilers, spoilers. Tom, no, it was a trailer. They played it. It was in video. Ah, see, but that seems this is less fun for me because I want to talk all about it. Well, I know I'm going to I'm going to leave and then you can talk all about it. No, don't. And also now you've you've given me the information that the movie is not just one continuous uncut scene. I've totally spoiled it for you. Well, it could be. It could be one uncut scene in the trailer. Cut out pieces of that one uncut scene. I don't know. I don't know. OK, that's that's who's to say. They did tell us who every no, I'm just kidding. They didn't tell us anything. I'm excited about the next season of Star Wars Rebels, too. Oh, it ended really well. I liked it. Well, yeah. I'm to me, that is still the best Star Wars active Star Wars property they have. Really? Yeah. Better than any of the movies. I story wise, I think it is far beyond the movies at this point. Is what are we talking spoilers? No, he's saying Star Wars Rebels. The series is better in his opinion than I watched a little bit of it. Didn't grab me, but I was like one episode. It's really it's 2D, though, so it wouldn't grab you. Actually, it's 3D animation. I wouldn't put it on my side. Oh, there you go. Should have grabbed you should have ripped itself right out of the screen. There's a there's a lot of growth in the characters that you really. I mean, you kind of didn't really even get that in the original trilogy. I mean, yeah, Luke Skywalker, but really, it was just more of a walk through the hero steps by numbers. Yeah, I think I should try another. I like it a lot. The first season, everyone likes it. It does feel very seven plus at points. Yeah. But it it still has really good episodes in season one, and it just gets better from there. Yeah. I mean, originally, they targeted at a younger audience. And so the plots were kind of geared that way. But it's it's really good. You're like, even I was amazed at how much I enjoyed it. I actually really like that they've decided to end it after season four. They're like, it's just going to be four seasons. That's it. That's the way to do it. Getting beginning, two middles and an end.  I liked it. They did really good writing, but it just felt like it just dragged on like, OK. So which one is this one? Rebels. Rebels. This one takes place. I refuse to talk about the movie for fear of saying something I regret. The the Star Wars Rebels, which is on Disney XD operates in the same time period of the fourth movie, A New Hope, but with the different cast of characters. Well, no, it actually it's precedes Rogue One. Oh, that's right. It does. Yeah. So it's it's it's near to New Hope. Yeah, but it's not actually in the same. It's in between New Hope and the Revenge of the Sun. Yeah. All right. I'm going to go. OK. Thank you very much for the show. It was fun. It was good to have you back. Thank you. Thank you to the chat room. And I'm glad that you guys appreciated my note seven joke and like some other people in the conversation. It just took me a moment. That's all. Took too soon. Nice. Cheers. Almost done with the export. OK, so let's talk all about Star Wars. Now that Patrick's gone, it's anti-spoiler ways. You know, I kind of give it up because people talk about it. And like, if I haven't seen it, I just shrugged my shoulders like, OK, I guess I'll catch it eventually. It's it's hard. There's just so many things like the Thor the Thor movie trailer for the upcoming Thor movie looks great. And it's and this is the one thing that's been bugging me about so much of the Marvel movie releases of late is that this is the first one that I've seen since the adventure that feels like it's going to be fun, like fun with a capital F. What? You didn't think Guardians was fun? Oh, Guardians. That's the other one. OK. So those two. So yeah, man, I didn't like it at all.  It could just be Paul Rudd, right? That's the name of the actor. You don't like Paul Rudd? And it just seems miscast. Yeah, I'm on the fence of whether I like that, man. But I don't know if I would call it fun. It was fun in parts, though. But there's just there's a thing. And it's kind of funny because it's kind of like ice cream. It's it's something I appeal, you know, appeals to the eyes and tastes. But Guardians of the Galaxy is really fun. It doesn't really stay with you, though. Oh, really? Yeah. It stayed with me. I did it. I think you're right about most people, though. I kept watching it over and over. Oh, I watched it once. I didn't need to see it again.  I lean. I lean. Look, it's Guardians of the Galaxy again, Tom. I actually bought the Blu-ray. I almost never buy an actual physical disc. I had to buy one for Rogue One because I missed it at theater. Yeah, but you could have bought a digital copy. You wouldn't have had to buy the Blu-ray. Yeah, you know, kind of another thing about I should have maybe done that instead for some reason. That's what I did with Rogue One and Force Awakens. Not sure if it's the the Xbox, but there's a transition point where the video just kind of gets really artifacting.  And it's maybe something similar. I don't know. I thought the disc was damaged, but I looked at it. It was fine. But I get that ultra ultraviolet. Yeah, digital download. Now you do that, too. But anyways, I watched the movie. I watched it. You finally saw it. And what did you think it did? It did not. If I like there's a movie did not feel like a Star Wars movie. It just felt like a movie with a lot of Star Wars trappings. Yeah. Well, I think that's kind of what they were going for. At least until the very end. I also so this is my thing with Star Wars. And I'm probably going to draw a lot of ire from the from the audience. But I realized that Star Wars is basically a lot of daddy issue. Father, son or daughter issues. Yeah, for sure. Like all of them. That's the entire Skywalker storyline. That's not just even Skywalker, right? It's it's the thing with half of Rogue One. Well, they did it with Jen or so. You're right, Jen. And they also do it with it's Star Wars rebels with with. Not Ezra, Ezra and Ezra. It's not so much a daddy issue. That's like no, no, no, no, not with his parents, but with with. Well, but I don't I don't know if I count as we're in there. That's just being a teenager. Yeah, he's he's rebelling against. But it's it's it's weird. I'm not saying that they're they all play at the same. But that's the crux of the issue is kind of this father, son, master.  But no, that is absolutely the Skywalker story. You're right. And then they did it with Jen or so as well. And then they're going to do it with Boba Fett, right? Because what is he? Oh, my my my dad's running around without a head down. Maybe they won't do it with Han Solo. We never hear about Han Solo. Yeah, he accepted.  His son had a daddy issue. See, everyone has issues. They're all daddy. OK, that's a legitimate storyline, though. You seem to be complaining about it. No, I just seems like it's the only it's just it's just a theme in all of them. All of them. It's just the great galactic rebellion was just one giant. Not in the Clone Wars. Clone Wars of the. And I don't think it really is in rebels. I don't I don't know. I don't try to think of the one. Maybe maybe it's both the father side. Like, oh, I just I spawned a huge army of that you're starting to stretch like young person rebelling against their teacher into daddy issue. And that's not necessarily the same thing. I think Anakin rebelled against Obi-Wan's instruction, but that wasn't necessarily a daddy issue. Did you just start talking about like the human? He didn't have a daddy, though. Right, that could have been the issue if it was definitely an issue for me. All right. Well, we are good. We are published. Thank you so much, everyone, for joining us. We'll be back tomorrow with Scott Johnson. Have a lovely day and we'll see you then.


Live from San Francisco, extracting the signal from the noise, it's theCUBE. Covering Oracle OpenWorld 2015 from Studio C, brought to you by Cisco. Now your hosts, Stu Miniman and Brian Gracely. Welcome back to Oracle OpenWorld 2015. This is theCUBE, SiliconANGLE Media's flagship program. We go out to all the events, help extract the signal from the noise. Happy to have with me all day today, Brian Gracely on the program. Brian and I are also from wikibon.com. And our first guest for the day is when we talked to you yesterday and going to go into a little more detail, Eric Herzog with the IBM Storage Team. Eric, welcome back to the program. Great, Stu, Brian, thank you very much for having us. We love coming to theCUBE and talking storage and, most importantly, oceans of data. Yeah, so, you know, we've been in kind of the storage and IT industry for quite a while, Eric. One of the things I want to talk to you about is when we talk about storage, you know, it's really about not just storing my information. How do I get leverage out of it? You know, I know you probably can't really comment on it, but, you know, IBM made an acquisition of the data from the weather company. And you talk, I mean, that powers so much. I mean, we've all got it on our phones and everything like that. You know, how do you think of storage today in IBM? And, you know, how has that been changing in the last few years? Well, I think the key thing is, you know, I've been doing storage for 31 years. And while I love storage, what customers really love is the data and the business value they get from that data. So, you need to have reliable storage, available storage, and high performance storage. Short, it's the foundation, but just as in your home, the foundation is usually hidden from the rest of your house, right? You don't really know anything's wrong with it until you have a foundation problem. Storage is that foundation. But what's most critical for customers is their oceans of data, and how they analyze that data, how they can turn those oceans of data into real business value, like we've done with this acquisition that we did this morning, right? It's about that data, not about the storage or the technology, it's the data itself that has the value. Well, John Furrier would love, he's been using the term data oceans, and, you know, you kind of got the analytics pieces. We talked a little bit at IoT. There's all these new sources. There's all these new architectures. Dave Donatelli this morning talked about, you know, cloud as one of these seismic changes, and it's impacting architectures. So, you know, what do you see as some of the key trends, how's that, you know, transforming how we kind of build those foundations that you talked about in the storage stand? Well, I think the key thing is from a storage foundation technology, to be able to derive the value from this data, it's all about analytics, and those analytics engines could be on-premises. They can be, if you will, analytics software as a service, so literally through the cloud. It could be a hybrid. So if a customer of big giant global enterprise has a hybrid cloud, some of the compute could come off of a public provider, right, as extra overlap when they need more analysis of that data assets. But when you look at the information of things and really the big data revolution, which is creating these oceans of data, storage is the rock solid foundation underneath, and whether it's a cloud deployment, an on-premise deployment, or even someone who's trying to do big data with a traditional ID deployment, if the storage isn't the right thing underneath, that big data will end up with no value, and you won't be able to analyze that data effectively. So IBM's made a couple of large acquisitions, soft layer, blue box, really trying to bolster their cloud space, but then over the last six, eight months, they've also said, we're not going to just put it in the public cloud, we're going to extend that out to your data center, sort of give you a private version of that. What does that say about IBM's customer base in terms of feeling comfortable with just the public cloud versus wanting some sort of mix of on-premises and private? Well, I think what you're seeing is sort of a separation within the end user base of all types, whether they be big, small, or medium-sized companies. And some people are very sensitive to their data and how they put it out there. In certain countries, for example, in Europe, actually Canada as well, you're not allowed to have your data physically stored in a cloud that's not within the limits of that legal country, right? You can't have data in Canada in a data center in the United States, even if it's over the cloud. So these regulatory models, legal issues, financial issues for publicly traded company means that when you create a hybrid cloud, when you can use public resources, whether that be storage, compute, or any of the infrastructure that you need to keep that big data in those oceans of data active, but you also do it with some on-premises. And remember, if you create a hybrid cloud or private cloud, you're still much more agile, much more cost-effective, and much more flexible in how you deploy your entire data center resources, because it's not a traditional data center, it's a cloud data center. So even if it's private, you still save a lot of money and get a lot of extra value out of the IT resources you have, then the old model of traditional IT data centers. Yeah, but we've heard all week, security, security, security, lot about encryption. The trick with that is encryption is typically a huge bottleneck, a lot of CPU cycles to do that, especially when you're doing it in real time. What do you get a sense from your customers in terms of encrypting data? Where do they tend to make those trade-offs? Where does it make sense? Where does it, is it too costly to deal with it? Well, I think that, when you talk about not just encryption, but how do I secure the data? And so you've got perimeter security, you've got data security, the encryption capability. In fact, I'll give you a hint, next week we'll be announcing a new product with real-time encryption and we're using hardware-based encryption resources. So the impact on the storage itself is actually very small and we'll be announcing that actually next Tuesday. But you also need to have intrusion detection. And IBM now has a comprehensive model. We can encrypt the data on the disk and in fact, with our new solution, we can encrypt data that's not on IBM arrays, on competitors' arrays. Then you've got perimeter protection, which IBM offers and then you've got what I call intrusion protection. When the bad guy gets in, you've got to track them down and keep them from doing damage. I think the security community sort of recognized that people are going to get in and the way you want to do that is have a great fence, have your data encrypted, especially for the very sensitive data sets and have the capability which IBM offers to do intrusion detection. So we actually offer perimeter intrusion and in the case of the storage division, the ability to encrypt data on the disk whether it flash or traditional hard drives, we can encrypt the data AES-256. That's just a very much a defense in depth sort of approach to security and encryption. I think the approach from a security perspective needs to be holistic. If you only encrypt the data on the disk, that's not the right solution. All you do is have the perimeter fence, that's not the right solution. I think end users, even small end users, are realizing security is a holistic approach, not a piecemeal approach. Just encrypting data on disk would be piecemeal. Just having perimeter speech. The good thing is IBM, because of our multiple divisions, are able to craft a security solution that has all elements and gives them a real holistic solution to enhance them and minimize any badness that would happen from, quote, the bad guy getting into the data set. So, Eric, we were talking about cloud. One of the big changes in cloud is how I pay for it and how I think about consuming it. Rather than capital expense, it's more of an operational expense. And even in the storage industry, we've been talking about, what's the right way to talk about storage? I don't talk about price per gigabyte, when I'm talking about Flash, because there's performance, there's more, I get out of it. And even at Wikibon, we've talked, okay, if what's really important is the data and what I can do with it and business value, it's time to value its productivity enhancements. What are the conversations you're having with customers? How do they think about kind of the financial side of how they choose and differentiate between the solutions out there? Well, I think what you're seeing is, when you talk to the storage admin, he still talks about cost per gigabyte. When we are talking to the application owners, the database guys, the guys that own the logistics software, the manufacturing software, they don't think that way. They think, as you talked about, let's do the value of the data. So for example, we have several customers documented public references where to run a report on traditional storage took them 30 hours. Now they can run a report on our Flash systems in two. Well, that's time to money, as you mentioned. And so when the CIO looks at it, the CFO, and definitely the line of business owners, and usually the software app owners, whether it's an Oracle guy, or the SAP guy, or the DB2 guy, those guys look at it, I've got an SLA, and if I can do that report, or we can execute 20 million transactions in an hour instead of two million, that is time to money and time to value. And I think that that is changing the discussion around storage and how storage in this era of Flash in particular can derive real business value versus saying, hey, I just need a solid, reliable storage piece, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now not only do you need that, but actually by leveraging Flash technologies like our Flash systems, you actually can see things like 30 hour reports running in two. And then you never could have done that with regular storage in the old days.  Yeah, so you've been a product manager for a long time, you've seen a lot of development cycles. A lot of talk this week about you've got to have the exact same hardware system, everything on-premises as well as in your cloud. Talk about the complexities of, you know, if you're building a storage array, how complicated is it to go, I'm going to optimize for enterprise versus optimize for service provider. Is it realistic to be able to build this exact same system for both environments or is that changing? So actually with the exception of possibly multi-tenancy, it's the same because so many companies, if they're not doing a public cloud or doing either a hybrid or a private cloud, right? So if I was a giant bank and the chief legal officer came and said, you know what, Stu, there's no way you're going to be able to run in a public cloud because of all the regulation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If I'm the sea, I'm so say, okay, I get it, Stu, but I'm going to create a private cloud that's going to be secure, that's just for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So when you create your storage for that environment, other than multi-tenancy, it's exactly what you would do for a cloud service provider or a managed service provider. It's the same model, except that it's private versus a public or a hybrid cloud. So I think that one of the key things is there are ways, you don't always have to have the same storage on both sides, right? You don't always have to have the same exact infrastructure. One of the powers of things like storage virtualization like our spectrum virtualize or server virtualization like VMware, Hyper-V, Oracle virtualization manager is that you can abstract the hardware. So the hardware does not have to be the same. Now, the real issue is when you have the same SLA. So then you've got to meet the SLA. So if that report I mentioned earlier really needs to run in Singapore and in the US in two hours, you've got to figure out a way to do that regardless of location. Then maybe you might need exactly the same, but otherwise I would disagree with Donatelli on that issue. Yeah, so, Eric, one of the biggest strengths of IBM is you guys have a huge application portfolio. You know, when we talk here at the event, it's like, oh, it's the red stack. They're going to optimize from the hardware all the way up to the software. Well, you know, there's a blue stack. And you guys have kind of the pure application family. There's a lot that IBM does to be able to really put together an environment, especially analytics, we've looked at that space a lot. Can you kind of give us from your hat on the storage side? Where is it that the single vendor stack is awesome and where are there places where IBM would say, no, no, the red stack, this is where we're going to help you? Well, so at IBM what we do is it's all about customer choice. And we've got, if you will, a blue stack. Our flash systems and our spectrum scale are often used in Watson environments, in big insights environments, and in other analytic workloads that we have. We also offer, with our power division, a pure power, which is a vertically integrated stack that includes compute, networking, IBM stored solutions, all in integrated stack with a hypervisor that they can be wheeled in, rack and stack and installed, you know, in a matter of hours versus a matter of days. So whether that be software integration with the hardware, such as we do with Watson and with big insights, or would that be more physical integration like we do with pure power? At IBM it really depends on your application workload and use case. And once we understand that application workload and use case we can say, look, the fully integrated way is the way to go and we could load the software on and that's right, or you know what, we can put together, even if you will, a heterogeneous configuration and that will work perfect. So it's really about understanding the number one thing that I think companies don't do is try to force feed. And what it really is, is what's your application, what's your SLA, what's the workload like, what do you need to see from that workload and what are you trying to drive, as you mentioned earlier, the business value. And once you know that, you know, which is the right recipe, if you will, the solid blue recipe or some sort of heterogeneous recipe. And you need to be flexible in that to meet the needs of the customer. That's the number one thing is meet the needs of that customer. Yeah, and I think IBM really needs to be confident. You guys have done a tremendous job around open source in terms of Java, in terms of Bluemix or what's going on with Cloud Foundry. I mean it is very much a belief that, like you said, choice, and then contributing back to communities as well. So it's not just package software, it's also open source software, open source communities driving a lot of things in that space as well that's looking at next generation flexibility, next generation opportunities. Well, and we're doing that across the board, as you know, at VMworld, we introduced the mainframe, the Z system, supporting VMware. At the same time, on our spectrum scale, we not only have scale out network attached storage, but we support OpenStack Swift, an open object store. And what you're going to see next week as well, I'm spilling the beans in the lirly, is support with Hadoop Connectors. And Hadoop is an open source database, if you will. So a lot of areas of IBM, server division, storage division, clearly the software groups, are all about supporting the Linux community, things like OpenStack. Java, Docker. Yeah, Docker, we do stuff with Docker. So IBM goes out of its way to offer ultimate flexibility, and as you know, we have a reputation, let's say in the Linux community, for example, as having more Linux programmers than almost any other company in the world, and contributing more code across all the various divisions into that, the various elements of the Linux community. So we believe it's all about choice and flexibility, and that's critical for us at IBM. All right, so Eric, you know, want to give you the last word. People walking away from Oracle OpenWorld 2015. What's your key takeaways, and the message IBM wants their customers to hear? Well, I think the key thing is, the world is changing dramatically. People can't think about hardware, they have to think about the data and how to get the most out of that data, and the storage underneath that needs to be secure and reliable, like it always did, but performance is becoming more and more important, which is why Flash is so critical. Things like our spectrum scale with scale out NAS, it offers parallel access across thousands of servers, giving you incredible analytics performance, and what's really important is how does storage allow you to derive value from the data, because people are swimming in these oceans of data, how the heck can they make sense of it? And that's what you got to look for from your storage is to help you make sense of these oceans of data, not just, oh yeah, I need some storage, that's reliable, or boy, I need a low cost per gig, because you know what, we have really low cost per gigabyte with our Flash, that's not the real value. The value is, how does the Flash take a report from 30 hours to two hours? That's the value of things like Flash systems. So customers need to think about their data first, not about what's my cost per gig, because the metrics are about data, and if something's a little bit more expensive, but report runs in two instead of 30 hours, that is money for the company, even if they spend a little more to get it. All right, well, Eric Herzog, Vice President of Product Marketing with IBM Storage, always a pleasure to catch up with you. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Oracle Open World 2015. This is theCUBE, thanks for watching.