Hello and welcome to the Digital Freethought Radio Hour on WOZO Radio 103.9 LP FM, right here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We're recording this on Sunday morning, November 6th, 2022. I'm Larry Rhodes or Datter 5. And as usual, we have our co-host Wombat on the line with us. Hello Wombat. Good to see all of you. Yep, yep, makes good radio. Our guests are Budro from Kentucky. Welcome. Hey Hig. Dread Pirate Higgs, all the way from Western Canada. John Richards from, you're in London, aren't you right around that area? No. It's just the background. It's just the background. I'm on the south coast, about 15 miles south of London. Yeah, cool. Digital Freethought Radio Hour is a talk radio show about atheism, free thought, rational thought, humanism, and the sciences. And conversely, we'll also talk about religion, religious faith. God's holy books and superstition. And if you think that you're the only non-believer in your town, while I'm willing to bet you're not. In Knoxville, here in the middle of the Bible Belt, we have a group of over 1000 of us, soon to be 1100. The Atheist Society of Knoxville or ASK. We'll tell you more about them after the mid-show breaks and stick around. Well, now what's your topic today? It's just a matter of perception. And maybe Christians were right the whole time. And we just the way how you look at it, that's all the matter of influence. But before we get into that, that's why I like to call our main course, our main dessert. I do like a little bit of an appetizer. I'm sure you guys do too. How about some noodles? We'll fill it up to our own Dread Pirate Higgs for our weekly invocation. I am called to invoke the power of the true creator of the universe. The drunken tolerator of all lesser and more recent gods and maintainer of gravity here on earth. May the great flying spaghetti monster rouse himself from his stupor and let his noodley appendages ground each of us in our seats. Wow. You know, that was such good noodles, but I do like a secondary appetizer called hair. Everyone's been doing how everyone's been doing. We'll start with Dread Pirate Higgs. Wonderful invocation. How you been? Thank you. Thank you. And this may be an invocation given at the upcoming inaugural council meeting of our new city council and coming council. It's been an ongoing struggle with the BC humanists to urge municipalities within BC at least and throughout other provinces to desist with the invocation of the Christian God during any meetings, especially in inaugural meetings. Right. Last time in Grand Forks last time, they didn't. It was a purely secular thing, but we have three incoming pretty staunch Christians coming in. So they're, they may try to sneak that in. Yeah, so we're having a contingent going to be present at the council meeting in that event so that we can make our own invocation. And let them know that they're not representing the only people with with religious beliefs. So sneak peek, we're talking about perception today. I see, I see, here's my quick point. It's such a shame that we have to waste so much energy on this. You know, people on accounts who have imaginary friends from my perspective, who now we have to battle and be like, listen, we have to fill out all these paperwork drive here, do this, rehearse this speech just so that you don't get a chance to, you know, shift the narrative on your imaginary friend being less than imaginary than it actually is. What a waste of time when you could be serving the greater good John riches what do you think this issue of councils holding prayer meetings at the start of their deliberations happens in other countries too. I know that freedom from religion foundation in California. Back in May, I think they won a case against a city council that had been holding Christian meetings Christian assemblies at the start of their general business, illegally, unconstitutionally, I should say. And more recently, the judge awarded costs against the city so they have recouped all their expenses spent on lawyers and so on. That's good news isn't that always topped on the news John Richards how you been and what's going on you don't have to give us the full news preview but how are you not stressing yourself out by paying attention to the news because I've always just not honestly understood news as bad stuff that's happened around the world. Not always and there's some good stuff to I put the bad stuff at the beginning and then main course and then sweet or dessert. Okay, okay. How you been my friend. I haven't personally suffered very much but I've got children here who have had such sore throats, they haven't been able to speak. It's been so peaceful. Not bad. Last week I got double vaccinated I did get the influenza and then a COVID booster. I said don't spread it out just give me both of them at the same time. I didn't get a reaction. No reaction from either one aside from just a lightly sore arm. It's like my sixth COVID booster so far, my body just like yep, we know what to do. We're done. You're fine.    I've only gone sick on the third booster and literally everyone else afterwards just been like oh thank you for the free medicine. I've had four and I've gotten sick after everyone I think. That's good. I think that's a good thing. I want to have that immuno response but we'll see. I've had four and I had my last one a week ago and it was a cocktail. It was a little bit for the original COVID and a little bit for the more recent one. Oh, interesting, interesting, interesting. Larry Rhodes, aside from not getting sick, how else have you been? It's kind of boring. I put my bike away last week so I don't have it out now. I'll be next spring I guess probably before I get it out and then just working and playing computer games. As long as I'm keeping on keeping on, I feel pretty good at 72. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad. Okay. Mujo, how you been? I have been well. Well, it was Halloween since we last talked, right? Truth, yes. So we did our third annual candypult where kind of in keeping with social distancing, we just launched candy for the kids. But we really got the physics down. We got the physics down. That's great. We got the physics down. We didn't hit anyone in the face. Okay. But yeah, we could get it. We told them where to stand. I imagine there would have to be some sort of like ordinance of that. And then you have like a three point, three point calibration script to make sure everything's good. And then a little bit lower, a little bit lower. And I can't tell you how many times I told the kid a little bit lower and they didn't listen. And I shot it to them and they missed it because I was like, I told you lower. Now here's a problem. What is it? What's the question? John Richards first. It was better than mine. John Richards. Did they have to catch it in their mouths?  Yeah. Because I didn't want to hurt him. It couldn't be like loose bags of M&M's because sometimes there's one more M&M than the other. And that would change the weight distribution and like more mass with the same amount of energy. It's flying way further than you would expect. It has to be like a consistent thing, right? Like starburst. I mean, generally speaking, we had five or six different candy types that we kind of got the hang of. Really, we were about 50% in the bag. Was there a toffee apple amongst them? Nice. Have you ever thought of publishing in the Journal of Halloween Science? No, that's a thing. No, I'm sure it exists somewhere, but it'd be a really good article. Halloween physical review. It's there if you want to look for it. Speaking of looking for things, we're talking about perspective today, guys. Every time I perspective, because I saw an enlightening meme on the Internet. It was one based on politics, but it did make me think. And the idea was a picture where you had two candidates you can vote for. One was a free Krispy Kreme donut. And the second one was burning down your grandmother's house. And I was like, why are these two things the candidates? But also, why is the distribution of votes like 49.9% and 50.1% or something like that. And I was like, isn't that funny in the way where it almost feels like. Whoever you vote for, you're on the precipice of disaster of going completely the other way. And like you can look at candidates and see how one is like clearly a better choice than the other. But yet half the population still supports like this terrible outcome that we just barely missed. Like I totally understood that idea of the mean. And I was going to the comment section and I was like, why does it always seem like this? Why is my perception that politics, especially when you're voting because we have voting in America always seems like these two desperately polarized options. Free Krispy Kreme donut, bringing down your grandmother's house. And one of the comments was like, well, it's not always bad. It's based on your perception because some people could see these two choices as diabetes and killing a house with a billion venomous spiders in it. Right. So it's a matter of like, how do you look at these two things? And maybe that color is your impression of what side you want to stay on or what things that you're willing to listen to from a particular person or group or dogma. And I'm like, man, doesn't that also apply to religion as well. And maybe just because I've been on the secular side for so long, I have a bad perception on the religious point of view. Maybe I've lost touch with that. What do you think I've got stuff to say about this. Well, a perception is purely subjective. It's coming from you.  It's your perception. It doesn't belong to anybody else. I've met this and it was a surprise to me because you're having been brought up in the science regime that people even consider it worth thinking about. But I met it for the first serious time when I was debating a Muslim in Manchester University and he kept saying, from the Islamic perception.  You can watch this debate. It was well recorded by the Islamic society at the university. And that was all he I was giving evidence, you know, right. This is why this is why we've got the evidence is here. Anybody can see it in a given the right opportunity. And he was saying, well, my perception is this. I mean, why, why do you see it that way? I get that I'm not even disagreeing that you have that perception, but is it meritable. Is there a justification behind it? Can you demonstrate any of it? Or is it just an uninformed opinion? What's the difference between that and your perception? Well, but, well, I was going to point out, and most people don't appreciate this is that we don't have any direct experience with reality. We are limited to our senses right in our brain interprets those signals and whatnot to the stimuli. And based on our knowledge, based on our upbringing, we interpret what we experience and and that of course flavors are understanding of it. And perception, you know, truly speaking is not the end result. It's the beginning. And if perception, you know, you could have faulty eyesight or you could have missing the savory part of your taste buds or bad hearing in one ear, you know, so these all affect perception, which then it limits or, you know, has an effect on what our ability to interpret that information is at the end. Right. I think our perception is very much informed by how we reason. And if we have a poor means of reasoning the world around us, that will lead to a poor perception. And why settle for something that's poor when through some meager effort on your part, you can have a higher standard of evidence, a higher standard of understanding, a better epistemology, if you will. All these things can be beneficial to you and improve your perception, which helps you directly helps you. Isn't that great? Claire Rose, what do you think? Yeah, no, I was just going to say about perception and our senses. We don't really have a choice. We don't like there's not like something else we can use. And so that even if we use machines to measure something, we still have to use our eyes and ears or whatever to to read the machines read out. And that's coming up on this election. This this really amazes me. I mean, if one side gets votes, then they're fine with it. If the other side gets votes, they're not fine with it. It's got to be flawed system. Now, if the system is flawed, how come their guy getting votes and winning is fine. Now, it's like they're going to say, well, yeah, we this system is flawed. What else we're going to use just automatically give one side all the offices just because they are not satisfied with the system. It makes it's a double standard. It makes no sense at all. Why should their candidate get preference? It's a double standard. What do you think? Yeah, so this makes you think of a thing. It was a cartoon originally like a drawing where you've got, you know, one guy standing by the number six and another guy standing, you know, be on the other side looking at number nine. Right. They're kind of like arguing and think the point of the cartoon originally was, you know, hey, you know, really don't get mad at the other person. It's all about perspective. And then somebody kind of turned it into a meme and you've probably seen this, but it's like, no, no, it's not. It's either a six or a nine. We need to figure it out. Like put it there, put it in a sequence that has a meaning. But the, but the, I think the point of the original thing was, oh, it's all about perspective and we should respect everyone's perspective and it's like, we should respect people. But we don't respect their perspective. Until they show that they don't deserve it. So yeah, there's a line. There's that fine line of respecting a person to the point where you don't want to cause conflict unnecessarily, right? But there's also the need of having perspective on an ad mere objective reality or at least something nominal to the point where you can use it meaningfully and inform actions in a informed, empathetic, socially acceptable format. You can't just be like, I think this is okay and you do it. You have to have that be informed in the context of hopefully a greater society or at least rationalize to the point where you can actually test it and verify if you're right or wrong about certain things. And that's what I like about math, but also the math is an abstract tool that we should be applying to real life as well. Like that just means in life we need to really define our variables. We need to understand who's right, who's wrong. And there is a right and a wrong. And if we don't know what's right yet, we don't know. We need to recognize that as a don't know. We need to come up with better methods to know, but there is right courses of action and we can't necessarily just, you know, better methodologies than other for a justified claims, right? And yeah, the one that's just like, well, can we just all get along. It's like, yes, and we can be right at the same time too. We don't have to have to pick one or the other and it yeah maybe it is a six or nine. I agree we should fight for that. John riches I saw you with your hand and what's up. Yeah, well, while I agree with dread about some, we have to form a representation of reality in our heads. I think the representation that we form is bloody good. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to do things like play disc golf. Yeah. So can an English person say bloody on an American radio station I think that's acceptable going ahead going ahead going ahead you get away. I can get worse than that. Anyway, the thing is that I don't like if there's a big need for interpretation between, you know, the observations and how you have perceived them. Then it's more opinion than it is evidence, because in my, in my materialistic world, matching a concept with observations should be just like playing snap. You know, right. There should be it should be as simple as that there's no need for any interpretation. It's, is this the same as that. Yes or no. And, and like one of my teachers said, it's okay to be wrong as long as you recognize it and are willing to improve a process. And the problem with, you know, being very courteous with perceptions and I make equivocating all of them is that you are willing to support wrong perceptions as well, or bad methodologies. And when we can say this is right and that's wrong. Now it's, it's good to understand what the process was behind it and prove and get a better process so we can more of us can be right because that's benefit for everybody. That's that's the stuff that a lot of people are crucially missing when we say, Hey, you're wrong. It's like, well, why are you making an argument. I'm not trying to improve a process here. Dred, what do you think. I was going to say just further to the point I was trying to make was that that our perceptions are not infallible and our memories are certainly not infallible. I think that's where a lot of people are led astray by their, their own sense of being right about things like saving seeing things the way they are, remembering things the way they were. That is just not the case because, you know, our memory certainly are aren't a recording. It's an act of construction. Right. Right. And the more people can recognize that then they recognize or have the potential to recognize that they are fallible. And that they have to be mindful of how their memories and their perceptions are actually constructions, whether or not not to direct experience of the world or more bluntly people can be lied to because we don't have that direct sense of self deceit. Right. Self deceit. Yeah, or like deliberately manipulated by those who have their best interests at heart and but put on a very genuine face and can absorb time, money, thoughts, advertising propaganda, political actions against the favor of those who are their most followers. We see this every day as part of the perception of a secular minded body, and it frustrates us it scares us it commits us to do actions to do shows like this. But it's not against on a personal level against the people who, you know, who are probably victimized by this or who are adherents to this or cycle fence or, or just general supporters, or quiet people on the on the street. We do this show to remind people that it's the it's the nature of the lack of critical thought that's getting us into worse cases with regard to how we treat each other and how we inform our actions. And if we just rely a bit more on critical thought, regardless of what we think the outcome is we're we are proponents for critical thought if we do critical thinking. Things will get better, guaranteed may name me the way I see it or I want to have it, but I guarantee if we all do this uniformly working together on that aspect, we can get much better than where we're at right now. And I'm not saying we're not in a bad place now I'm just saying we could be in a much better place now, if we all just start to critical thinking. I had a comment before we go to the half. It's from maximum cover he has an idea on prayer this is a perception on prayer. Larry, maybe you'd like to touch bases on this. I think maximum cover says I think the perception on prayer is wrong prayer works. I keep seeing atheists commenting in various contexts on how prayers don't work. And I do nothing, and do nothing. And I feel this is dangerous misapprehension of reality. I think it's misappropriation of reality. It's all right. It's all good in its essence prayer isn't any different from self talk. There are messages you repeat to yourself. And that's how we know prayer works. What do you think Larry. Well if he's talking about just the generic soothing activity of talking to yourself sure meditation works, but that doesn't mean you're talking to a supernatural being. I'm glad he clarified that at the end because when you say the word prayer, you're saying different things to different people. Right. You know, I was coming up about ready to come up with a reason why interstitial repair doesn't work, but no, I agree. There's been some benefits from it. But also from meditation or just sitting quietly in a room. I'd love to hear what you think. Do you think prayer works in this context in essence prayer isn't any different from self talk there are messages you repeat to yourself. Yeah, I mean at that point you're just down to semantics. Yeah, if his definition of prayer is, you know, is self talk. Then sure, but I think probably what's happening here is he's trying to smuggle in the fact that he actually is praying to a God and that's what's doing work right from his perspective. It's it's speaking to the God that that is that is helping your body. Right, right, right, right. Love to get more thoughts dread. What do you think? Well, and I would agree. Definitely sounds like a smuggle.  Self examination is a big one. Yep. Sam Harris has this great app called waking up. I just recently subscribed to it. So, yeah, getting mindfulness, as opposed to calling it prayer I think is probably more honest. Right. John, what do you think? Well, I thought that the, the idea behind a prayer was to achieve something was to get some desirable filled a bit like a spell. Yeah, yeah, right. I've always called it witchcraft. Yes. And if it's not that like, what's his name maximum cover seems to be suggesting, if it's just hearing oneself talk in one's head. And that's, let's face it, that's unlikely to achieve any outcome. Then he's using prayer to mean reiteration of concepts I like. Here's, here's my, here's my thought. I'm actually, this is sort of going back to the equivocation that we were talking to before. These are not the same things. Prayer is talking to in the most used context, a different agent than yourself. Self talk, which is the same number of syllables is a completely different concept that most people and their users them prayer prayer. I'm talking to somebody. I'm praying to blah, blah, blah. People don't know communications. You pray to who you worship to generally. Elsewise, just talking to yourself. Right. If you're praying to yourself, you're talking to yourself. Just call it self talk. You don't have to add this extra step of baggage and self talk takes as many syllables to say as prayer. And I do believe in the power of self talk. It's nice to be able to rationalize. You can talk to yourself out loud. You can do it in your head. You don't have to worship. You don't have to have baggage. You don't have to sit down and you can do it in any context that you feel appropriate and it does help you. It's great for as an organization. But witchcraft also takes two syllables and involves spells and invocations and stuff like that. Why don't we call prayer witchcraft? If you're willing to call prayer self talk, then be willing to call witchcraft prayer at the same time too, because they're all in that point, the same thing, but you would probably not want to have that happen. So let's just be clear with what we're talking about here. And in fact, prayer doesn't work because when you do intercessory prayer for people who are sick and they know they're being prayed for, it causes more stress in their lives and they actually end up worse performing worse than when a placebo is used in its place. We have a scientific study to show that. Yeah, we have multiple. We do that at least once a year and it's crazy how each time it shows clearly that prayer actually makes things worse. Self talk. Great. Do it prayer. You're actually better off not doing it at all. If you have a problem and you want to pray to get it fixed, just get it fixed. Don't pray to get it done because you might actually wasting more time in the process. What do you guys need to break? We need that break going on Larry. Stay tuned for the second half of the digital free thought radio hour and w o zio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. We'll be right back after this short break. Welcome back to the second half of the digital free thought radio hour. I'm doubt or five and we're on w o zio radio 103.9 LP FM here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Let's talk for a moment about the atheist society of Knoxville. ASK was founded in 2002. We're in our 20th year. And we have over 1000 members. We have weekly in person meetings every Tuesday evening in Knoxville's old city at Barley's taproom in pizzeria. Look for us inside the high top tables or if it's pretty outside on the deck. We also have Tuesday evening zoom meetups. If you'd like to join us email us for details at ask an atheist at Knoxville atheists.org or let's chat as a Gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook meetup.com or go to the website at Knoxville atheists.org. By the way, if you don't live in Knoxville, you should still go to meet up and look for a group in your town. Don't find one. Where do you want to pick up guys are jumping back into the matter of perspective going ahead, John Richards. Well, I want to pick up on maximum covers thoughts that prayer is just self talk. Yeah, because recently I had I had a I was flashed by the speed camera. That means different things in America than it does in English. What do you what do you mean by flashed. I was photographed by the speed camera. Okay, okay. I entered. They had my, my, what do you call it license plate in your country. We call it. Anyway, I had my car. I was driving in an unfamiliar town. And suddenly I was trying to find my way, you know, and trying not to hit anything. Right. And so I was being very careful. And suddenly a 30 mile an hour limit sign went past me before I could not register it and react to it. So I was flashed for exceeding the speed limit. Now, if you only exceeded by less than 10%. You don't get points on your license. You get a training course. Wow. Oh boy. So, so I attended this driver training course. And one of the tips they gave us was talk your way through your driver. Say what you're doing, you know, say that I'm watching out this park cars. There might be something coming out from behind them. And here's a woman crossing the road with a baby and a buggy. So voice, the reality you are experiencing, because it helps you to focus on the needs for reacting to it. So maybe that's what maximum recovery is referring to when he's talking about messages that you repeat to yourself, but he is certainly not what I understand prayer to be right. But there's also the danger of lack of context because those who have a favorable position by the misinformation of a statement will continue to use that as ammunition to support their cause or their their creed. And he's saying prayer works. I think the atheist perception on prayer is wrong. The atheist are commenting on blah, blah, blah, how prayer doesn't work. We are talking about different things if you're not talking about what we're talking about. And you are trying to equivocate self talk and prayer at the same thing. I don't think that's a fair equivocation. I feel like they clearly mean different things. And if they don't be willing to call witchcraft prayer, because we hold that in the same context as a spiritual communication to something that's not to yourself. What do you think I would like to ask him what he thinks of public ostentatious prayer, like the prayers that open meetings or the yeah, not everybody joined into after school and other kind of thing. If it's just self talk, then it's not prayer. Right. It's not what they're doing. What are they exactly exactly and why they have to hold up an entire, you know, political class. Meaning stuff like that. Boudreau, I think I saw you. Yeah, no, so this makes me think of the idea that all of his evidence is on invisible things, right? So the thing that they're praying for, it's not like you're praying for a pot of gold and it appears. Right. Or you're praying to grow back an arm that's been amputated. Right. Those are, you know, those are things that all of us atheists would be like, yeah, okay. Yeah, prayer works. Yeah, we saw it. Yeah, absolutely. The evidence that we're using here is stuff that's invisible. It's like, you know, oh, I feel better, completely subjective, right? Right. And not to mention, you know, we think that self talk actually is at play here and and doing the good. So it's not set up for something we can study. It's just, yeah, it's just worked. Great job, Boudreau, because I can't self talk an arm to grow back from my elbow if I lose it. I can't self talk a dead family member back to life. So am I really praying at that point? Or am I really talking to myself? And if it's something that I can control and manage in my own world, like something I can test, something I can do through my own volition, I just need motivation for. Why am I wasting time with prayer? I can just get that with self talk. And would he go as far as to say intercessory prayer? Prayer doesn't work. I mean, he's saying it's not prayer. Right, right, right. We got to make sure we just have these well defined variables. So we're like how we're talking at the beginning of the show with math six and nine. It's good to know what we mean when we say things because like our perception, we have a compromise of understanding when we take an idea, convert it into words and give it to somebody else to hopefully have the same idea as we had. That is a work of compromise. So it's very clear that we very well define our variables so that there's no misunderstanding or unnecessary equivocation between terms that are not the same. And self talk and prayer are not the same terms. If you could pray a dismembered limb back into life, you'd go up in my estimation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just tell me which God you're praying to then and if you're praying to yourself, we really get you on the. When do we get you on the news? That's why should we why should we limit that to growing back limbs? I want a third arm. Yes, yes, yes. Science can help you with that. No science can help you with that. So think how think how useful wings would be. No, no, no, we don't want wings. All right. All right, we're moving on. Do we have wings are so unless you know how much energy would take to fly that there's like just staying up in the air is just like man like a hummingbird. They have to have about 20,000 calories of it. I couldn't know if you could. There's a lot of people we'd all run. Immediately, you guys are being oringly practical. These are wings. They work with no energy. These are magical. How many lives they've saved from falling. Yeah, just wings outfall. Give me teleportation. You don't have to fly to work now. It's just like, dang it. You know, many years ago, many years ago when my now 15 year old daughter was a little toddler, she went to a party. It was an it was an angel or chair and party or something in the dress that they have to wear, you know, and she came back. They've given her some wings, which you you put your arm through these elasticated bands, and they're these little wings on the back. And when she got home, she ran around in the garden trying to get off the ground. What adorable kids. It was so cute. Guys, I have another potential equivocation here. And this is by Aztec summer, who asked, would I be considered Islamophobic or anti Semitic, if I am anti religion. And I think that's an interesting question. So, how about this. Well, I'll try to do a quick weighing in similar to how we had like with prayer and self talk. They are different things. You might even be able to try to categorize them in the same thing and that could be more fair but these are two different terms and they mean different things. And Islamophobic and and anti Semitic versus anti religion, I feel like are three different concepts to which are sort of falling into like a prejudiced point of view, whereas one is is strictly not against the person or the culture, but about a dogmatic means of thinking is that is not tied to any particular group because a person would be anti religious if they were Scientologists and a white guy or Scientologists and Brown guy. It doesn't really matter.  That's the problem. That's why I'm anti religion and I am anti religion. I generally don't support it. But there are definitely atheistic religions and in my head it's just like you're taking an extra step to get to the same place I'm at. What do you think? Well, I was going to add to that. I used to be a Freemason and I probably mentioned this before. But when I had come to realize that I no longer believed in the Christian God, I spoke to one of the senior fellows at the lodge and told him that and told him I just felt that could no longer be a Mason and good conscience.  I was like, No, that's your, you're, you're making an assumption about what I think, or what I feel without directly asking, you know, it's a conflating two ideas that don't belong to one another in the same way that the person who claims this is an atheist is not Islamophobic or anti-Semitic. It's just, it's a, it's a different thing entirely. Right, right. It's a much more charged thing. John Richards, what do you think? Yeah, well, I'm going to agree with both of you. Because if you are anti-Semitic and Islamophobic, then you are anti-theistic, you are against religion, but you've gone a step further. You've decided to victimize these people and demonize them. And that's not necessary. It's not a compulsory part of not believing in a religion. Actually, it's more pointed than that. I think it's, it's the difference between ad hominem, right? Attacking the person or attacking the idea. So it also leaves. I respect, I respect the right of people to believe in what they want, but I don't have to respect the specific belief. Right. That's what I can attack. I also hate the hypocrisy that can come with being Islamophobic when you can also be very genial to Christian ideology. It's like, oh, I just hate this imaginary guy, but I love my imaginary guy. I was like, well, that double standard is just as problematic. Whereas anti-religion is sort of like, it's a firm grounded understanding of these are the things that I don't like. Everything falls into it, but anything outside of it that's like person based doesn't apply to it. It's just this very consistent platform. Boudreau, love to get your thoughts on this and your previous comment. What do you think? Yeah, I'm not sure how you're tying that in, but my thoughts would be that first off, anti-religion. Can we have a little asterisk on that and say, except the Flying Spaghetti Monster, just to be clear. I'm anti-religion, you know, with the exception of Flying Spaghetti Monster. I got some problems with spaghetti because it's a lot of carbs. I like my protein content to be a lot higher than that, but I respect people. Eat a lot of pasta. I'm totally fine with that. But I only have that to eat and beer and as an asexual stripper poles don't really do. Stripper factories don't do that much for me anyway. There's not a lot calling me there, but I totally respect people doing it. So like go for it. So I totally agree with you guys on the point. You know, we're anti-religion is very different than or anti specific religion is very different than, you know, being being racist or prejudiced. But I would point out that someone famous has stood up against and Dread Pirate Pirate knows where I'm going with this has stood up against someone who was against religion calling him an Islamophobe getting really angry on live TV. Oh, yes. And that was Ben Affleck. Yeah. And he attacked Sam Harris pretty hard for, you know, really out again, just like you guys said, and Tyson in the beginning, you're challenging the dogma, the ideas, not the people. Right. Like anti Muslim is so very different than anti Islam. I mean, that's those are two. Yes. Yeah. And I have a, so not to do these weird qualifications, but my sister's Muslim. And I love my sister. And she knows that I'm an atheist and she, her own religion is supposed to look at me as like, you're an apostate, you're not part of our faith, you're outsider, but we love each other. It's so much more of a better understanding of like, hey, I'm not on board with the messaging, but we love the person underneath. And I think what religion is really good at is making people identify with the message when there really is a person behind that and it's hard to separate those two. That's my thought. And it's also weird too, because John Richard, I saw your hand, but it's also weird because when a religious person looks at an atheist, they're like, well, you are in a religion too. It's like, no, no, no, it's not a religion. There's no dogma here is a position I have as a person that I'm also willing to dismiss or get rid of as soon as I have good evidence. It's a weird situation where people have to media identify with an idea. John Richards, what's up? Well, I want to use this opportunity to segue back to our part one subject of perception, because I'm wondering whether our attitude towards anti-theism and then specific religious hatred is something that's peculiarly perceived by non-believers. Whereas believers perceive themselves to be in the right religion and therefore it's legitimate to hate all the other religions, because, you know, that's what their God wants them to do. Religion is inherently divisive. Right, right, right. And it ambiguifies who the person is who's holding the religion because they have to be part of a flock. Larry, sorry for not getting to you. Okay. Well, the thing about it is one one is ideas and the other is people. People have rights and deserve respect until such time as they don't they prove that they they don't reserve respect. But ideas don't deserve respect simply for being they constantly change and they have to constantly be reevaluated to see how they affect people. There's a whole difference between people and ideas and one deserves respect automatically. The other doesn't. Right. And the benefit of I feel like a lot of Christian, a lot of Islam or, you know, a lot of grounded popular religions piggyback on the concept of, well, if you identify with this religion, then all the rights you have as a person are now applied to the religion as well. And therefore you can't challenge the religion because that's a bad thing. Right. And we have a right and because we're part of this person, and we should be part of this governing body because this governing body controls people, and we are part of the people as well. It's like, no, that's the infestation of, you know, dogma that seems nice, the perception that we have a secular minded people is that this is infiltrating the common good of rights of man and women, of course, and everything else in between. And it's the religion that's trying to piggyback on a lot of stuff that doesn't have a right to have. And why do we give it to so without a fight. Why do we let these, you know, council members start, you know, why do we let council members who have these beliefs come into council in the first place they're voted in sure.  Right. I was going to point out a couple of things here to is, you know, and again this is just reiterating by putting it in a different way is, you know, there's human rights, which should be respected, but you don't need to respect the content. You can respect the right to be for people to publish books but you don't have to respect the content you don't have to like it. And I was going to say also, just to Tyrone Tyrone, you said your sister is a Muslim and characterized you as an apostate. An apostate is someone who previously believed in Islam and stopped leaving that's actually an apostate. That's probably the better way of saying it. Yeah, we can just go with that. Yeah, so my family is very weird.  I have a sister who's a Christian have another sister who's a Muslim. And so, when we all pray or not pray around the Thanksgiving table. It's a very weird procession of messages going down different wires I can imagine very weird, very weird for everybody. So my mom wouldn't allow the Ouija board because of her truth. It's always these weird levels, the steps for everything. Yeah, it's always very interesting. So I got one more question that will go through. This one comes from cosmic cherry it's more of an open ended discussion. Based on the idea of hey as I became more atheist or more outside of my religion. Outside of that dogma I started seeing people differently that's how my perception change so here's the comment being religious has worked my perception of reality. I grew up in a heavily Catholic family throughout my life my mom has been saying that she's against indoctrination, yet she and my dad have been doing that to me my entire life. So, I'm now an atheist, I still get this awful feeling that something is watching me from time to time, her indoctrination has made it so hard for me to unlearn this stuff. Is anyone else having the same issues. But you go up heavily Catholic. What do you think. Yeah, yeah, I did heavily maybe maybe my mom, very Catholic. We did Catholic Church Catholic Mass when even Wednesday like Catholic development. And I had the same thing for a while after even after calling myself an atheist which took a little while to I had this the feeling of somebody watching and I was very, very late to actually be willing to say GD. I can't say on the radio but you know what I'm saying. I even as an atheist I had I would I would sing lyrics to a song that had it in it and I would swap the words out for something else. Really, it took it took a while and then I know, yeah, I agree I said on the radio before to that like I really struggled with like reading, you know, any of the great atheist authors books on airplanes. I felt very uncomfortable for a little while. That's all gone now. I have to safely say so whoever posted the comment. Be patient. It didn't take too long but it should fade. It should fade. When I was in when I was in Tennessee near Knoxville I had gotten a decal on my car was the American atheist logo and the day I put it on my car I was filled with a bunch of apprehension because you know atheism was like this thing that I wanted people to know I wanted to like people to know that about me, but I was also terrified about like immediate retribution. If I were to like post this and most people I imagined didn't even interpret it correctly right like my Muslim sister I was talking about she thought it was just a science atom or something like that. And when I explained to our American atheist uses like okay, I get it. But in my head. I was just incredibly paranoid about how everyone was perceiving me, and I didn't want to have to deal with repercussions like a scratched up car or anything but when nothing happened I was just like, maybe there aren't as many people looking at me as I once thought and I'm like, there's my brain thinking about like the Christian point of view because in the Christian mindset, you're always being watched. And you're always God's favorite project that you worked on so you're used to that sense of paranoia, but it took a while for me to give that up, even when I was to the point where I was posting a while. Yeah, Larry what do you think. Oh, definitely. It's been 50 years since I lost my religion. But I remember the first couple of years you know you go to a meal you feel like you need to pray. You just have the feeling that you're being watched all the time it's a hard thing to shake and you have to worry. I mean you still have worries about hell and stuff, but you you just grapple with it logically and realize that none of this one makes sense or two has any evidence to support it. And after a while it you know it fades those way. And remember that there's a there's a group out there that is there to help you if you're really no and everybody has them. No, it's called the group is called recovering from religion and you can find them recovering from religion.org. Okay. Well guys, I'm, I'm lucky that I was never not even inducted let alone indoctrinated into a religion, but I'm, I'm pleased that you guys have managed to escape because without terrible harm because some people are left with actual PTSD as a result as a result of the arm that with it's I think it's a child abuse. And but going back to the beginning of what this listener said, his mother didn't recognize or her mother didn't recognize that she was doing indoctrination. They don't do they I mean it's like nobody will accept that they're in a cult point to other people and say, that's a cult, but what I mean is not a cult. Right, right. How quick are religious people to point out cults in the world and as an atheist you just have to smile and be like, yeah, huh. Okay, how are we defining that I'll just keep that to myself. So, but yeah, it's anyway, the, the idea of somebody watching all the time is in a city these days coming through in the form of security cameras. Big brother. Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully it's not some terrible irrational power. Final thoughts on this before we close up. What do you think of the idea of still bucking the trend or the idea of being watched even after you become an atheist. Yeah, I guess I haven't really felt that. And I can't even remember feeling that so much. I had during my religious experience, you know, as a kid growing up in Catholics, you know, as a Catholic and, and other sort of things I dabbled in searching for spiritual spirituality. It was always a hope to have someone look at me. I just never got that feeling so when I finally divested that myself of that. It wasn't, I wasn't looking over my shoulder it was just an acknowledgement that really I'm on my own and there's no one there. I don't have a guardian angel or, or a deity looking after me. I only have the quad, I have only the quad pushing me down onto the earth with his new appendages and that's it. And you got your hope that somebody was watching you fulfilled when you started to tread the boards of the stage tread. Yeah, there you go. I had the same hope and I achieved it by becoming a teacher, you know, the only one who stands up facing the other way in a class. Yeah, guys, what a wonderful conversation we're now at the end of the show. Love to see what everyone would love to think about, or have our listeners think about over next week before we come back. John Richards anything you'd like to plug. Yeah, the usual. And an extra because I did a debunking of Stephen Mayer. I don't think I've mentioned this before but it's, it's had quite a few views. People like it. So take a look at free thought channel. I've put, I put the Stephen Mayer debunking in prime position. But of course, we also have the regular free thought hour with an interesting guest. We had, it was about digital currency yesterday. And we have global in these news, and we have views on the news which is going to happen in a few hours time. In fact, what is it in three hours time for you guys who are a different time zone, and you're some of you will be taking part in that. Wonderful. Jared pirate anything you'd like to plug. Yeah, if I live stream this at that now it's 7am Pacific time saving time. Yeah. PST. Yeah. So 7am PST on my channel mind pirate. I've been given a handle now. We came up with that channel handles. So you can just look for mine pirate and be there on YouTube like and subscribe if you, if you like it. Boudreaux anything you recommend we check out. You know, I don't usually have stuff to plug but but it because of our conversation, I'd like to encourage I imagine everybody here has already done so. If you haven't, I think something really important is if you've got the Facebook profile. Make sure you put atheists down for your religious views. Does that does everyone do that. Not a bad idea. Postfery makes sense. Yeah, it took me that was something that I struggled with to because that's a very, very blatant way to I mean it's kind of nestled into your about page or whatever so you have to go looking for it but I suspect I've got friends that have seen it and they're like, Oh, scary. Hey, why not in next Halloween you just dress up as yourself and be like what are you following. I'm an atheist. Terrifying. But you seem so nice. Guys, you can find me and let's chat on YouTube. Larry, why don't take us out. Okay, my content can be found at digital free thought calm. Be sure to click on the blog button for our radio show archives, atheists songs and articles on the subject of atheism. My YouTube channel handle is now at doubter five. And you can find my book atheism what's it all about on Amazon. Everybody is going to somebody else's hell.  Until then, don't sweat it. Enjoy your life. And we'll see you next Wednesday night at seven o'clock. Say bye everybody. Bye everybody.


Program and Jordan is going to talk her title was fear of losing out This has this has been a very interactive session in the past It's really our way of connecting all of us in this room who have a common cause and I'll have Jordan take over Hello everyone my apologies for being late, but thank you for giving me a couple of extra minutes How many of you were here last year? Great about half of you. So half of you will sympathize with the fact that when I was here last year I was pregnant out to here and now I have a 10 month old and so we had a little child care snafu But we're all good now. So thank you for waiting for me So proving my total uncool mom-ness now I heard this phrase this year, which I'm sure is probably so 2012 or something like that Fear of missing out and the acronym is FOMO So people hashtag this and put it on social media and all this kind of stuff But what resonated with me about that in this job is that a lot of what I talked to about patients is what they're afraid They're gonna miss if they don't survive this disease So I look around here and I see a lot of faces that I see that are surviving this disease So maybe that fear is less for some of you And for some of you who are newer into this or in a in a worse place Maybe this is more close to the surface for you But I wanted to talk a little bit about that today and mostly I actually want you to talk about it a little bit today Because you have way more insight into it than I do To think about what are the things that you are afraid of missing? Because a lot of what we talked about in the lead-up to this talk is what are we doing to try and? Cure this cancer to make people live longer to make them live better and so on And so for some people in this room I've heard you say before that you just want to be here long enough to get the cure or to get the next medication Or to get the next innovation But I wanted to dig a little deeper into that today and think about you know What else are we worried that we're gonna miss and I don't mean to go for the cheap You know emotional jab here because the thing that I want us to be thinking about is so if we know Here's something I'm really worried I'm gonna miss because of this cancer and it doesn't necessarily mean because I Die and then I miss the rest of my life But things that are working against you now that make you miss out on things that you want to be doing now If we can kind of identify those things How do we start to tackle them and some of them don't have a clear answer some of them Don't have a thing that just says oh, I'm worried I'm gonna miss this and here's here's what I do to make that better, but some of them do So I want to I always prefer to have in this session time for you guys to talk a little bit with each other about it A little bit of a topic here I know that this is an interactive Conference anyhow and you've been asking questions all day and probably getting to know the people who are sitting around you and Hearing some things about the other people that are here, but this sort of comes at things from a different angle So I know that I don't have that long for this talk today So it won't be too long of a breakout and I don't want people to move around or anything but if you can just sort of Group into groups of four or five just right around you and and think about together What are some of the things that you're afraid of missing because of this cancer? And then we can kind of come back together and maybe see that lots of people are worried about the same things or That people are doing things to combat that fear that we hadn't thought about otherwise So we'll just do five to seven minutes of that because I know that we're supposed to end up pretty soon But if you guys can just sort of clump together and think about this What are the things that you are afraid of missing because of this diagnosis? And then we'll come back together again. Okay Yeah, sure just pull together into yeah, just turn your chairs a little bit or that's completely fine. Whatever works the best I I I I I I I I I I I I Just one more minute here guys I I Let's come back together here. Thank you so much Okay with everybody This engaged. I'm hoping that a few people will be brave and and want to share with our larger group here Okay, let's let's bring it back to the larger group here. Thank you all so much for for jumping into this topic together I Think that you know, I can you guys hear me? Can you hear me okay? Okay Great great, and we have another mic out here so we can pass it around for people So obviously this this topic brings up a lot of emotion Because it makes us think about some of the things that we sometimes avoid thinking about But the reason that you're all here is to figure out how to access things the best you can so that you live as well And as long as as you can with this diagnosis So I think it's worth us thinking about what are your other motivations, right? Not just your body Not just yourself, but probably some other things as well So I walked around and listened a little bit and can certainly share what I heard But I would love if a couple of brave souls might might be willing to say What this brought up for them?  Yeah Sandy will you just start us by what what you talked about in your group a little bit? Thank you I think in our group it was talking about Fear of losing independence, you know what that would happen okay, if If illness continues that that would be taken away there was a lot about fear of who we are leaving behind and and How to cope with that right right so so fear for yourself and fear for others and I Don't mean to not acknowledge all the caregivers that are here as well I know that this is a joint effort. So this is you are as welcome to speak as as anybody else here but yeah fear of fear of losing independence fear of Losing identity I think is is a piece of it right independence certainly in terms of you know your physical body and what you're able to do But who you are in the world a lot of patients that I work with you know Struggle with not being able to work or not being able to participate in some other activity That's beloved to them because of this and and think a lot about then who are they when those pieces get stripped away So so fear of of what's gonna happen that uncertainty is really is really challenging and then fear of fear of leaving people I think is is really common right what will happen when we're not here anymore and Depending on our belief system will we know what happens? When we're not here anymore, so definitely I can see that others in other groups further back there Somebody who doesn't work here or is employed or paid by this institution Okay, well then I'll start saying what I heard back in in other pieces of this of this group And I hope that people will will chime in so things about like inability to plan for the future right and Hearing what other people get to do right when I grow old. This is what I'm gonna do I'm gonna go on this vacation. I'm gonna retire. I'm going to Move to where my grandchildren live I'm going to do whatever those things are and hearing the other people around us make these grand plans and Us sitting here saying I don't know if I should even think about those plans or even start to make those plans Because am I just gonna disappoint myself or somebody else? Fear of being just too sick to get the next big treatment, right? It seems like especially probably from what you heard today We're we're always on the verge of something new and big and which clinical trial is gonna be available and all of this and Will I be well enough long enough to access that that's something that I heard walking around the room here, too And then and and the same theme throughout of you know family people that you love And not being here for them or not getting to see what happens to them Which I think also reflects back to not being able to see what happens to you Who are you gonna be?  And then I already heard some groups in here talking about well, so what do they do to combat that? What do they do and some people are either blessed or Hard enough workers to say well, I've decided that I'm not gonna let it interfere I'm gonna go on I'm gonna pretend that this isn't happening or I'm gonna put it as far to the side as possible And just keep living as if it didn't happen And then I know that there are other people in here that say well that sounds great But how do you do that?  And is it easier or harder for other people? What do people think about that?  Thank you. Thank you. Oh in a Stanford University sweatshirt, of course But I'm not an employee here or anything fair enough You know, I think It was it was very hard in the beginning for me to accept the situation, you know probably a year ago But and you know, frankly a friend of mine who also went to Stanford, you know Looked at the data and said hey, you know, you're you probably got two years Median if you look at the data pretty daunting. Yeah, so yeah, you know, I'm not that old So I was I felt like there's a lot I could have done maybe or I never thought about not having to worry about what I would do In my life because I figured there's all this time But you know, I think I'm I'm feeling emotionally better now because you know the way I look at it is there's only so many things in life you can control and You know, I think I have a great doctor doctor soon of us. I come to a great institution Stanford no, I'm not paid by any of them. I've been telling you honestly So so there's that, you know, I have been lucky to have a great Support network a lot of my friends, you know from all over have tried to help me in many ways My family has been really great and been there for me, you know, my sister moved here from She seems to have gone to the bathroom, but you know, you're from another another state, you know, my brother-in-law, so So that helps a lot I think having people in your in your in your camp and maybe some of us We're still focused on our career or whatever. We're doing our life that we forgot a lot of people But I've been lucky, you know, I didn't grow up here. So kind of my friends became my family in a way That's that's been very helpful for me I work for a very supportive company where they've been very nice of what organizing my schedule and You know, I've tried to exercise Quite regularly. It's very hard sometimes, but I try to exercise and I think that gives me a lot of energy and makes me feel better I go back and forth between reading things because you know, there are times when I feel really happy and I Took like a biology of cancer book and went through three chapters and then after that I my Yahoo finance or Yahoo Whatever gives me all the people who have dying of different kinds of cancers, which You know wasn't making me feel that good and I decided to kind of shut that off so yeah, I mean, I think it's it's a bit of an emotional roller coaster and You know, I think you there's no real way to avoid that. You know, I'm generally have always been kind of an even-keeled person so for me it's a little bit of a You know adjustment but I think the way I feel like I do the best is when I'm around people that I like and The other thing I try to do. This is not a hundred percent possible is to cut out Negativities and negative energy and negative people from my life if I can Sometimes it's hard because they're family members and things like that, but you really have to That was not meant as a joke Your sister came back just in time for that. That's right. Thank you.  I think it's very difficult for most human beings I think I Historically, I used to work in a business that was highly uncertain and then therefore may be a little better Position to manage that but today when it's about yourself, you know statistics Kind of have no meaning because you know, it's not a statistical outcome at zero or one for yourself So, yeah, I don't I don't know how it is and you know, again, if somebody told me that hey, you know what you got six months I'm not sure how I would respond to that But I think I would respond that better than I would a year ago, right? So so anyway, I don't know like exercise and be around people you like and and and be Focused on people. The other thing I would say is caregivers people always forget, you know Like I'm the one with cancer, but it's actually really hard for my family, you know, emotionally I think sometimes they're having a harder time than I am emotionally about it So so I think there's there's you know, it's just be a little sensitive to that, you know, isn't it difficult anyway Thank you for being brave and for first standing up here. I Mean you said a lot of smart things in that but I think that the things to pull out are are that I Think that sometimes people tend to be feeling better when they've been doing better for a while, right? So, you know, you said a year ago this wasn't as easy for you and here you are looking fairly well You're able to do a lot of the things that you want to do Maybe even some things have changed for the positive in terms of people in and out of your life and so on And that's something to hold on to right is that during the time that you feel well And the longer you feel well the better we tend to do right the further away that scary part is of just the Diagnosis or or some complication or something like that So we all have that out there for us more, you know that time could potentially come Do other people have have thoughts or things that they that they'd like to share now that you've seen somebody Brave stand-up. Is that a hand back there? Not just a stretch. Okay, perfect. I don't work for Stanford, but you guys pay me I'm actually your agfa packs and x-ray rep So the funny part was we were negotiating the packs deal back in March and at a meeting at the Hems Conference in Vegas With your director of IT. He was an iron athlete and I'm standing in a standing on the booth feel the pain in my side and End up going to the ER in Vegas and that's when they found out I'm See it's it's hard for me right now Yeah Steve um Live in Orange County Three hours away from my wife drive straight to her. Don't know how she's gonna take it She took it pretty well So I'm in the medical field. I know this stuff You know when they when you're when you're in when you're in getting the CT And they order the contrast you're like what the hell's going on I've been in I've been in imaging for years work for a whole bunch of different vendors First time I've ever been in the sales role, but I know what you guys go through what we've all been through Getting the diagnosis and figuring out what's going on when you know what's going on directly and you're in that in here In you're in the scanner and you're like I'm getting contrast you know It's a shocker So who do I go to I go to my friends? I got friends along all over the industry You know some of my best I gave my images to a friend at Marshfield Clinic I gave my images to a friend at MD Anderson. I live in Orange County. Who do they recommend? Dr. Landman down at UCI He did my surgery did a great job laparoscopic t1b Lesson it was originally the CT showed it was six centimeters. So I opted for the radical did the whole thing I'm in the early stages. I'm trying to figure it out, but I'm doing this all on my own Right, so I'm talking to people trying to figure out what my options are Just like you guys, I mean you get the results you freak out. I'm still freaking out Funding a lot nodules in me right now. So what am I gonna do? Who do I talk to? I'm going to see Dr. Palace city. I hope so I'm trying to try to take care of my health care It's like you own your own process. You try to deal with it But what am I I'm afraid of losing my family and I'm trying to deal with it, but You know, you got to keep going. Yeah, and I am back to work. I'm weak as hell But I keep coming back here. I'm in fact I'm gonna see Dr. Gambier at the end of the month to talk about the PAX project and again I'll interject and some of the stuff he does for now for now But it's like you just take those steps again and try to keep going forward, but I'm brand new to this You know, it's only a couple months out But it's great to see you guys and like some people sit next to me They've been they've been through this for 12 years and I'm still trying to figure it out myself So I'm glad to see you guys here. Thanks. Thank you I'm gonna walk back and get that. I think I appreciate this particular point of that sometimes the fear is a little bit more immediate, right? It's not just you know in a longer-term way or in a more Emotional, you know esoteric way. It's it's a real fear about like what's gonna happen to me right now And how do I how do I start to figure this out? And it sounds like you know continuing to rely on Who you have in your life is the is one of the big keys that people are talking about And I also appreciated, you know this that we're trying to figure out What does it mean for me in particular in addition to what does it mean in general and the gentleman before said, you know You are up an end of one right in this in their data pool.  It was a doctor in a different group But anyhow, and I think that's so frustrating to hear because you say well, yeah, what are the odds of that happening to you? I actually have data that suggests I have a two-year median survival rate You have you know a one of a bajillion chance of walking out of here and getting hit by a bus And so finding that understanding both ways right a couple people have said Thinking about how this really does impact our caregivers around us. We really want to be sensitive to that Definitely, but also the fact that a lot of the fear that you live with some or not a lot of it Some of it you live with by yourself right because it's you And somebody says oh well this could happen to any of us none of us know how much time we have everything is uncertain Live every day to the fullest even if you don't have this diagnosis and that's a lot harder to do I think when you have this sort of hanging over your head, but anyhow, I want to Let somebody else speak there's an old The difference between involvement and commitment the way you know the difference is you look at a plate of bacon and eggs The chicken was involved and the pigs committed Turns out that in fact there's a lot of you know doctors are involved in this thing But the patients are kind of committed to the path going forward And there's a lot of guys out there though that a lot of patients Especially I wanted to talk to the last two guys here if you're not familiar with it There's a group called smart patients for example It's out there that goes on and has a lot of people getting together Talking about their stories or path through this thing give recommendations Tell you exactly all the names of the different groups for the different Subspecialties and the rest of this thing and I certainly hope that if you're freaking out you avail yourself of this It helped me an awful lot to go on and look at some of the mistakes that people had made before asked them particular questions get answers that were specific to my Circumstance and realize I was talking to people that again were committed not involved So if you guys are I just hope you guys are familiar with those particular support groups and others besides smart patients You can talk to about this great well put Thank you for that and I'm gonna be using that phrase quite a bit from now on and steal it right from you In the back there and then we'll bring it up here and we'll wrap and then we'll wrap up after that I know that we're we're running low on time. Yeah, I was just gonna say it's really hard. I'm in the city I'm treated at CPMC and it's very hard to find a cancer support group. I mean There just isn't you know, so I got involved with an all cancer support group at UCSF and I just want to say, you know seek out whatever kind of support group you can find because I'm finding that I mean the good thing about that is that if everybody has breast cancer, they're all come, you know You're comparing chemicals So, you know as a result, we're really talking much more about what's in our head because we live with this fear all the time It doesn't matter your cancer. It doesn't matter even your stage.   You can't say it to your friend, you know So that's just my two cents, you know You know if you can find any kind of group or even a person with cancer, you know That you can hang out with it's a good thing, right? Yeah, thank you for saying that and the same actually goes for for caregivers as well Finding other people who are taking care of or involved in the care of somebody with cancer And I think you you said it right is that it is so hard for people to get it Who are not living it either in the patient role or as or as a caregiver or family member It is so hard to understand and even the most empathetic people and even the people who want the most to understand it Are not walking the path even if they're walking next to you. They're not walking it So thank you for saying that just one more comment here. Yeah Well, I also worked for Stanford, but that was 55 years ago Man, I put some plants out here today. Okay I Think I'll start with one a book. I read that that affected me very deeply was Tom Brocaw talking about his bout with multiple myeloma and It felt very similar to what going through having having kidney cancer because the thing you can't do is you can't You can't plan anything for the future. I mean you can but you can't You There's a you can't count on it. And so you have it's it's a very very difficult thing Now I'm I think I'm older than almost anybody in this room. I'm I just turned 80 and In with that I want to tell you a nice experience. I took 10 members of my family to Europe for a week Because I thought this is an experience that they will remember and They'll get I'll get the use of my money of some of the money and they'll get the rest so But anyway that that that was that was an important thing and I think if I look at the whole timeline of my life I probably should have died when I was four when I was in World a little kid in World War two in London and getting bombed daily, and then I took a ship across the North Atlantic at a time when 350,000 tons of shipping were sunk by the Nazi you boats every month and we survived and And I got interviewed and in New York Newspaper because we'd survived and ended up in Ellis Island, which I thought was a beautiful hotel. So But I have to say that I mean I just had a Setback in my last CT scan and I talked to doctor to the Sandy Sreenivas and I can't I all I can say is that I have not had a more sympathetic doctor in my whole life treating me and I Was feeling very very down yesterday and today I feel better Thank you for sharing an example of something that you didn't miss out on which was this trip with your family and Now you never have to be afraid that you're that you're gonna miss that I know we just have a couple more. We'll take one more comment here. Go ahead. Yes, sure. Go ahead. I just want to add what this gentleman said You know, I was at Kaiser. I had a kidney cancer and I was very worried then they always had six months every doctor comes he says six months then I came here and and Sreenivas became my doctor and She said can cure it We're gonna control it You do you know different than any diabetic or your cancer patient and that built me up From there on I was so confident Then I'm gonna make it and I've been making it for five years So I think these words Well, and let's let's use that same the same thought for for this fear that you're all carrying around Which I know you are to some extent greater or lesser is that we can't cure it But maybe we can control it Maybe some days can be better than other days and some days are gonna be bad Terrible days But some days will be okay So I want to just wrap us up here. I really appreciate you jumping into this with me I know it's a hard thing to think about and I I know that a few of you will walk away Feeling heavier having thought of it So I acknowledge that that this brings things up for people that maybe they've been able to Hold to the side for a little bit of time But I also hope that you walk away with the fact that in this room There are many people that are that are walking this path with you right next to you If I could turn you guys into a support group I most certainly would But instead we'll just have to do it once a year here And to to be thinking about you know Where can you reach out for the kinds of things that some of some of the lucky people in here have talked about the people that? They have the things that they've been able to do maybe not all of us can take a trip to Europe But there are other things that we can do probably That emulate that so that so that we don't miss out on some things Because this cancer could take a lot of things from you, but it doesn't have to take everything And I hope that that's the case for everyone in this room That it leaves you with the things that are the most important if you do need Extra support extra help reach out to somebody here. We can get you connected for sure reach out to somebody wherever it is That you're treated. I know not everybody is here after our stunning Compliments of dr. Srinivas today you all know that you could come talk with her And I'm here as well. So thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it I have a wonderful rest of your day, and I hope to see you back here next year It's so heartening to see so many returning faces every time I'm here I've been doing this for five years and there have been people here every single year of those five years saying the same Things somebody gave me six months five years ago, and here we are having the same talk again So thank you for letting me be a part of it, and I hope to see you back


So my name is Alejandro, I'm one of the owners of Somitacos and we want to thank everyone in the community for their continued support. As part of our summer menu, we have some of your favorites such as fish tacos, coconut rice, new desserts for summer and like always, margaritas, palomas and cold beer to enjoy out on the patio.


What is going on guys welcome back to the channel critical overlord here to talk about scream 6 in this video a little bit of screen 5 as well And stuff we found out in screen 5 and how I think it pushes forward into the narrative of screen 6 So we're just computer screen had a lot of interesting things One of the most interesting things was confirming to us that Kirby re was indeed alive But then at the very bottom of his screen there was a video titled did the real stew marker survive? So what is so interesting about that? Well, I think scream 6 should touch on like conspiracy theories and People who take them overboard and have gone off the deep end with it and also just commenting on true crime Maybe there's been some type of Woodsboro Documentary that's been made talking about the real crimes that have happened And it's a very popular thing on streaming services, etc Let's say that's something that could be also be commented on true crime as well and the obsession that America has with Serial killers mass murderers trying to understand them etc and just go from there That could be something that they could talk about as well, but primarily just talking about conspiracy theories I think that would be a very this franchises I think is a very fitting place to comment on that stuff and of course that video on Richie screen is them in pain Oh mod I would say in reference to the original idea for screen 3 where stew was supposed to be alive and Also the idea that they know is going on right now in our own real world where you have countless people who theorize about Stew being alive. He did not die at the end of screen one somehow bringing him back for screen 5 as many people wanted Matthew Litter was actually poking fun at the idea with us on Twitter a few times during the production of screen 5 and They could just have fun with that So I would like to just start off by saying that in my screen 6 I'm seeing four killers main killer is gonna be Tara's dad who comes back wanting revenge on Christina his ex-wife who lied to him about his daughter for 13 years who wasn't his daughter Sam Carpenter And also we could find out that Christina's little hookup with Billy that was something that Tara's dad Was originally told by Christina when they were in high school to not be worried about He noticed some type of flirtation going on between Christina and Billy and Christina told Tara's dad That's nothing for you to be worried about but then of course 13 years later into your who you thought to be your daughter's life Sam You find out that not only was that person someone's son someone you should be worried about But that they are the father of your daughter that you thought was yours and that the woman you love and proposed to Like to you and of course you're gonna feel some type of way You're gonna feel heartbroken and we don't know what he's been up to for the past. Who knows how long it's been since that happened I can't think of the years off the top of my head, but it's been many years Of course, he's never really recovered from me He's still bitter and let's say that Billy Loomis was actually a little bit of a bully towards Tara's dad in school As well so that that would only eat at him a little bit more He has complete disdain for Billy Loomis and he's in a position right now in his life Where after these new killings that happen with Amber and Richie He's in a mindset where he's he wants to just eradicate any and all things that are related to Billy Loomis So what happens is let's say he goes on to the stab subreddit he finds Two people who believe Stu Mocker is alive and that they also think that Sydney Prescott and Gale Weathers are the two people who know where he is We know that Stu Mocker is not alive, but again, this is just them poking fun and having a little bit of commentary on Conspiracy theories and how some people can how troublesome it can be if you go too far down the rabbit hole And now you're in a place where you are completely off the rails And you're willing to do anything in your power to prove something to be true when it's no way it can be true so The benefit from Tara's dad in this point would be He won't he has no problem targeting Sydney and Gale because again, they have some type of ties to Billy Gale being the one who wrote the book that inspired the franchise that we got stabbed Sydney being the person who was actually dating Billy. So Any and all things that have to do with Taking something away out of this world that has to do with Billy Loomis Tara's dad is all for it So him and these two conspiracy theorists who thinks Stu was alive and think Sydney and Gale know where he is They've tracked down where Sydney and Gale lived an opening of screen six would be Sydney Prescott having that conversation over the phone with a killer one of the four Who asked where Stu Macher is she she confidently of course would say he's dead chaos ensues around her house Sydney doesn't die. She takes out that killer same thing will happen with Gale But we don't see her in the opening and we see mostly what's happening with Sydney Sydney Gale have a phone conversation say that the same thing happened where they got a ghost face killer calling them Where they asked where Stu Macher was a Stu Macher was and they told them that Stu Macher is dead Then we jump to our primary narrative where we are focusing on Tara at school with Chad and Mindy Sam is living close by not at school. Of course, because she's much older. She's not in school Kirby is a is a professor on campus. Let's say bodies start dropping around campus Christina's their mom that we didn't see in screen five would ultimately appear in screen six And then we get to the final act where Tara's dad reveals himself and his other partner who could who will say that in my In my head this partner could be a classmate of Tara who was working with her father for a financial gain and the things He's told this partner is that he intends to frame Sam if he helps him do this then once it's all done Then he will give this person money essentially they're just in it for the money Let's just say that's all I can think of at this one off top my head But they of course will double cross this person the same way mrs. Loomis double cross Mickey And we find out what they actually want Tara's dad that being this again would be where the true crime commentary comes in they want to be idolized and they want to be idolized and I Guess drooled over the same way America drools over these other serial killers Tara's dad could be in a position where he feels As though his life does not matter No one talks about him But yet this person who again bullied him a bit in high school is Propelled to the heavens and he's memorialized in all these movies and you know constantly being brought up in in the news And all these other things he coming out about Billy Loomis this and Billy Loomis that but no one no one talks about Tara's dad Tara's dad feels inferior he feels irrelevant feels unseen unheard So his whole thing is he plans to kill all of them and continue going out there doing all of this chaos doing all The same bloodshed hopefully moving on to the next step in his plan again Eradicating all things that have to be connected ability Loomis this moving on to targeting Hank Loomis who I would say in my head is not appearing in this movie He could even bring up he tried to track down Hank Loomis But it seems Hank is off the radar he just wants to be like the next Manson the next Bundy the next Dahmer he wants to be he wants to have his own legacy his his own image that is just Remembered for many years to come the same way Billy is idolized and just I would say fetishized in a way in his own Twisted perspective in this universe for screen that could be where the true crime commentary comes in or I guess you could switch it up And say he just wants to frame Sam, but I don't think they need to do that I think they should just keep it fresh in a way and say this is someone who wants to get caught Let's say he actually manages to get away with it Tara's dad that being he doesn't kill Tara Let's say he abducts Tara at the end Sydney and Gail of course wouldn't die either but let me know just think about this down in the comment section below We've had our course make sure you subscribe turn on post application and miss a video in the description I've linked to my social media accounts on Facebook Twitter and Instagram You can message me there of course and there's any movies news or views you'd like me to cover in the future with all that in Mind guys. I will see you in the next video


So Declan, brand new season upon us through an opening game in the National League. Before we look at that, I don't want to dwell on 2020, but how much is what happened last year now going to be a driving factor on what 2021 is going to be for you? Listen, you know, it's finished 2020, finished disappointing, there's no doubt about that there. Ocean, we had our debrief after, shortly after, maybe 10 days after that there. And yeah, we've got to take the learnings from that there on the late get-cav and the serve to on it. But we moved on to be quite honest and, you know, we're looking forward now to 2021. And we've been back over the last three weeks. And as I said, the lads have been training really, really well and looking forward now to force-flats on Saturday night. How big a year is this for going to go football, Declan? Ocean, every year is big, there's no doubt about it. Every year is it, you know, the last 2020 was really challenging with COVID. And it's going to be no different this year.  There's going to be no spectators, it's going to be the same for all teams. But it's just great, just great to get back in playing. And as I say, the league's coming. We haven't much time to prepare. It's been a very short run. But as I say, we'll have a fair day started out now where a lot of lads are at. And we're going to have to use this in terms of getting ready for championship, which is only six, seven weeks away at this stage. Yeah, short run on how much of a hundreds is that, Declan, given that you're trying to get players to their max with a game coming in such a short period of time? Well, I think, you know, at some point dwelling too much, but I mean, I didn't see any reason why we could not have gone back in a couple of weeks earlier. I think, you know, at this level now, and it's these guys are more or less professional athletes in terms of how to look after themselves and how to prepare. We know we probably shooting them back a number of weeks earlier because it takes that five, six weeks to get ready to get lads up to speed after coming back on the pitch. And, you know, we've got to watch in terms of injuries and, you know, we've got to be careful around that. And as I say, it's just basically three weeks to get ready. And as I said, it's the same for all teams. But Saturday evening is the start of our competitive season. And as I say, we're really looking forward to no better match to get started with Darby against our Northwest rivals. Can you tell us maybe how things are panning out squad wise for you and injury-wise ahead of the game? Because obviously it's a concern as you head on the new season, Dagon? It is, just no doubt about it.  And that's natural. I have to just come back on the pitch for the first time in about six, seven months, collectively as a group. We've monitored them now, actually over the next 24, 48 hours, a couple of sessions to go. And we'll not be taking any risk with any players. Some people are just finding their feet coming back into it. But, listen, we're really, as I say, we will have a squad of players ready for action on Saturday night. And as I say, probably over the next three to four weeks, you'll see a fair number of lads being used in the league as we build up towards championship. Yeah, so you're going to have a big rotation policy then, Dagon, ahead of the end of June time? I'm not going to say it's going to be a big rotation policy, but we're going to look at lads that we need to get up to speed and we'll see where the guys are at. It's still important. The league's very, very important to us. And it isn't many, also, championship this year. And that also, you know, is far from ideal, but in the hand we've been dealt with, so we've got to get on with it. So what is going to be really competitive matches to start with, say, on Saturday, we'll throw it in with Monaghan and Armagh all in the next three weeks? Yeah. How important, then, is the league in your eyes tackling? Well, the league's been important. We've always treated the league important. You know, it's not the same. You know, last year we had finished our, I think it was our fifth match against Monaghan when lockdown happened in COVID. So by the time we got back in it was behind closed doors, really.  And then you played your National League and then you had that break of six to six weeks, six to eight weeks to go into the championship. So you don't have that this year. You have no Mechanic Cup. You have no games to prepare your straight in, basically at the deep end now, at the weekend. And as I say, we'll know more about these players where they're at now and on Saturday evening. And then, as I say, it's game on, weekend, week out. And one week off, I think at the end of the league, we're going into the championship. So it's going to be very, very content starting, but it's something we're looking forward to. And I think there's going to be all spectators and sports. Supporters are really looking forward to it also. We wait for those to sit down now Saturday evening and watch that game. And it takes away a bit from the doom and gloom that's out there at the minute. Yeah, just before I mentioned, Tron, do you feel it's unfair, maybe, in Donegal that you have just one home game in the shortened league format given what has happened in other counties in Kotlin breaches? Yeah, listen, actually, it is what it is. It's an ideal. It's not ideal. But are we living in an ideal world at the minute we're not? It is what it is. As I say, we're just happy. We can turn our control all of those things so we can only control what's in front of us now. And that's the next training session. And we look forward to that. And as I say, we build towards the match at the weekend. Is there going to be a rejuvenated or a re-viginated Tron team that's going to come to the pitch on Saturday night? There is change, of course, there, like Cal McSheehan's back and have that new management as well. Is Tron going to be a different force to document the championship last year, Declan? Well, it's going to be probably different from a number point of view. So you won't have Mickey on the sideline who's been manning the sideline for a long time. You've new management coming in. There's going to be Declan in the element of freshness. No doubt about that there. Tron, I mean, there's still one of the top teams in the country. There's no doubt about that there. It's going to be a really good competitive north-west match on Saturday evening. And definitely, you know, those games are highly competitive. Even though there's going to be no spectator, it's going to be highly competitive. And it's going to be, yeah, fierce, fierce tussle between, you know, two good teams. OK, Declan. Thanks for talking to us. The best I've looked really campaign. Thanks, Oshin.


Sure. Yeah, I'm very happy for the guys that the starters played really well and they broke open large leads so then we could put the other guys in and they played really hard also and just were closers. Yeah, they train hard and they're playing every day. I don't call them second string. I call them finishers. That's what they did. They ended up closing for us. And, you know, Nate Ellis, our captain, he got hurt the other day and the two bossy and Bosco came in and played for him and that was good. And Karn, you know, they fought hard.  But they, you know, they were limited. They didn't have a very deep bench. Kind of warm out too. Yeah, they've been educating me on it. It's a conference rivalry and Rutgers, New York, they have a great tradition. They used to be D-1 and they, you know, played us in the final last year. I was in here. I didn't see it. I've heard stories about it. So I'm sure our guys are going to be fired up to defend the home court again.