My name is Dr. Malvi Kanair. I am an assistant professor of economics at Troy University down the road at the Johnson Center. If you've never heard of the Johnson Center, it's the Johnson Center for Political Economy. Check us out on the internet, on Facebook. We have a pretty cool program there. What I'm going to talk about today is what is Bitcoin and kind of get into what it is, but also the economics of it in terms of being able to understand how to classify it. Is it money? So the questions we're going to ask today is, okay, what is this thing and is it really money? Should we think about it as money? Is it about to die? You know, the last year I was here and Bitcoin had been pretty stable in its price, but over the past fall there was this giant, you know, volatile episode that took place where the price went from something like $2,000 to like $20,000 and then came back down and now it's kind of stayed stable at about $6,000 to $7,000 for a while. So we'll kind of get into all of that. But first of all, let's just define it, basics of Bitcoin. What is it? What are the basic technological features of it? So Bitcoin is a, first of all, a decentralized digital currency. Decentralized meaning it is not issued or backed by any one government, any one company. It is basically a piece of code, a piece of open source code and the code itself is pre-programmed and it's kind of preset to determine how much the money supply is going to be. So the total money supply that there can ever be of Bitcoin, the total number of Bitcoin that there can ever be created are 21 million. Now the way that these Bitcoin come into circulation is by what's called the mining process and it's a mining, I use quotes there because it's not, you're not exactly going in mining or digging, you know, in the ground. What you are doing is you have computer users that are supplying power to this network and by supplying power to the network or by verifying transactions in this network every time you verify or create a new block you are rewarded with new Bitcoin. So there's this kind of incentive compatibility there. There is an incentive that is created for just anybody. I mean it's just completely open. It could be anybody anywhere in the world to supply their computing power into the network because there is an incentive that you will be rewarded with Bitcoin. What purpose does supplying that power serve? Well, it actually creates that network and it helps to verify transactions and so it's completely, that's what's known as a peer-to-peer or P2P network or currency. So what's kind of interesting and the reason, you know, there's a lot of comparison that happens between Bitcoin and the way the code is set up and gold and the reason is, I mean, it's not a far-off comparison to make. The reason is that it does in some ways mimic the supply of gold. So if we think of the total supply of gold, gold is extremely scarce. The rate at which it increases, the rate at which we are able to mine and find more gold, it kind of has been increasing at a decreasing rate and because of that, because of that scarcity, it helps to create value in the eyes of users. And we all know when something is scarce, when something is, you know, not completely abundant in supply, that's what helps to establish a price for that thing. And so Bitcoin is kind of similar to that. It's kind of set up that way. Okay, now over the past year, I mean, this lecture is titled The Economics of Bitcoin, but really it could be the economics of just cryptocurrencies because over the past year what happened is Bitcoin proper, the Bitcoin that we all know about has kind of reduced maybe perhaps in importance and there's been the rise of several other cryptocurrencies that are gaining in importance, such as one of the main ones is Bitcoin Cash. And I'll talk about that a little later, Ethereum. I'm probably sure everybody's heard of Ethereum. That's kind of the one that's been in the news. And there's several others, Ripple, Litecoin and, I mean, the list goes on, these are kind of the more prominent ones. And so what we're seeing is there's been a lot more competition and a lot more other cryptocurrencies that are becoming prominent. Now, this is a good thing and a bad thing. I mean, bad in the sense that it makes it harder for Bitcoin to gain mass adoption, right? I mean, the more competition there is, the harder it is for any one currency or cryptocurrency to gain the market. But as an economist to me, this is great. Competition is always a good thing. And when there's competition, you know that it's only going to be the best currency that is going to have or the one that has the best properties that is going to have a chance of gaining larger adoption. Now, let's look at, so this is the price kind of crazy thing that happened over the past fall. This is where we're at right now, somewhere close to $7,000. Now, a lot of people, right? I mean, when this happened last year, did anybody buy and sell Bitcoin? You did? You did? Okay, good. Okay, good. I mean, so obviously, right? When you look at something like this, obviously there is a sort of a bubble element there, right? I mean, there was a large part of all of this that was being driven by speculation, okay? And if you look at this, this is not dissimilar to what happened here.  This is 2013. And in the fall of 2013, the price went from about $100 to maybe $1,200. And that was huge. That was that first, you know, big bubble and everyone was like, oh my God, this thing, this is the end. You know, this is going to come crashing down. Nothing's ever going to happen. Well, it came down and then it kind of just stayed stable for a while. It was like $200, $300. It stayed right there. And it's really not dissimilar to this, okay? And we're kind of here now. And I mean, it could be that we kind of stay here and it could be we go, you know, see another kind of similar pattern. So if you were to ask me, okay, is this whole thing going to come crashing down? Because this is what a lot of people are predicting. I don't think so. I think there was a bubble element here, just like there was a bubble element here. But does that mean it's the end of Bitcoin with all the volatility that has taken place? No, I don't think so. Okay. This is a graph showing you, even with all the volatility, the number of users of wallets has continued to grow. So the people that are actually using it for transactions continue to do so. This is the number of transactions per day. And now you can see it's kind of taken a hit here. There was this kind of steady increase in the number of transactions. People actually using it as a payment mechanism. And that did definitely take a hit, but it didn't go away completely. It did take a hit with that large kind of bubble element, but we're still here. We're kind of stable. And there still is a lot of use of Bitcoin as a medium of exchange. Okay. Now, the first thing or the first question, you know, we have to answer from the point of view of economics is, okay, what is this thing? Is it money? Well, what is money? Money is basically money is what money does. Money is defined by its function. Money is not defined by its form. So anything that is able to serve as a medium of exchange can be a money. Now, how do we define a money? How do we distinguish between a medium of exchange and a money or a currency is once it has gained wide usage? Or it's something that is generally accepted as a medium of exchange is defined as money. Now, what does this matter?  It's been, you know, cattle and shells and coins and silver and gold and just tons of different kinds of commodities, right? So in the prisons, we know that on cigarettes and laundry detergent, things like that kind of emerge spontaneously to become media of exchange. So is it surprising that, you know, something like Bitcoin is also being used as a medium of exchange? Is it? No, it's not. It's not surprising. So electronic money, paper money, these things have been around and these things have been used as a medium of exchange now for the past 100 years, paper money, more than that. Money maybe last 40, 50 years. And so there's no inherent reason why something like Bitcoin cannot be used as a medium of exchange. Like I said, money is what money does. And so the question we have to answer is, is it being actually used as such? What is a medium of exchange? Well, how is it different from every other good, a consumption good or a production good? The key difference is a medium of exchange is something that is held in order to be exchanged again for goods.  You have a demand for it. You want to hold it right now only because you plan to spend it later. You plan to exchange it for goods that you do want to consume. That's a medium of exchange. The difference between a consumption good and a medium of exchange is consumption goods are things that we derive value or use from consuming directly. Money, we only derive value from exchanging for goods that we do want to consume. So we just have to kind of answer the question, well, is it a medium of exchange? We just have to look around us, look at the data. Is it being bought and sold for goods and services? Yes, yes it is. I mean, what can you buy?   There's a lot of gift card websites. There's just tons of things that you can buy, movie tickets, airline tickets, restaurant meals, hotel rooms. Okay. So it is actually still being used as a medium of exchange. And that is what, that's all we need to define whether it is, in fact, a medium of exchange. Now, is it widely accepted? Is it generally used? That's kind of, that's harder, right? That's harder. There's a big, there's an arbitrary line between something being used as a medium of exchange, just saying, okay, now this is money. That's kind of hard. Would I say, okay, is it widely accepted? Should we call it a new currency? Should we say this is probably not, probably not yet. It's not as widely used, but it is being used as a medium of exchange. Now, how do we classify it? What kind of money is it? Maybe if we had to kind of put it in a box and put a name on it or, right? Because there's a lot of confusion about, okay, so what is this? It's not backed by anything. Is this fiat money? Is this going to come crashing down any second? Right? How do we understand it better? Now, I use the classification that Mises uses in his theory of money and credit. And he defines three different types of money. And one is the first one is credit money. The second one is fiat money. And the third one is commodity money. Now, credit money is only, it doesn't really apply anymore. Things like in the past, like bills of exchange, pieces of paper that were basically loans that were coming due, let's say three months from now, would start to circulate today and have a discounted value. That would be credit money. It's not something that we see often today. What we do have today is it's either fiat money or commodity money. Now, the world has basically been on a fiat standard since the 70s. So fiat money is generally defined as something that is only backed up by a government decree or a legal decree. So you have a government saying, okay, this piece of paper, we put our faith in it and we will back up its value and it is legal tender. There's legal tender laws that protect it. That would be fiat money. Commodity money is the money that we've kind of has been more prominent historically. Fiat money is something that's only kind of been around maybe 40, 50 years, but commodity money has been around thousands and thousands of years in the history of mankind. And commodity money is something that has a value or use value outside of its value as money. So something that is kind of something that you could use as a commodity for itself, something to consume in whatever way possible, right? Value is subjective. What is consumption value to me may not be consumption value to you, but hey, that doesn't matter. All that's required for consumption value to exist is that some people somewhere see some sort of use value in the thing. And so that's how commodity money is defined. Now, Mises goes further. He says, okay, so there's commodity money, but we can distinguish further between commodity money into money proper and money substitutes. Now, there's a lot of, I've seen arguments being made for Bitcoin as what Mises would call a money substitute. What is a money substitute? It is something that is redeemable or if you are backed up by another either commodity or fiat currency that would be a money substitute. Another term that economists use for money substitutes is inside money. It's money that is backed up or redeemable for an outside money or another currency. Now, a lot of criticism against Bitcoin has been, oh, well, it's not backed up by anything. Well, doesn't matter. I mean, are people still using it for exchanges? They are. And it doesn't matter. And the reason it does not matter is that Bitcoin is not a money substitute to start with. So what would be examples of money substitutes or legitimate money substitutes or so-called inside money would be stuff like today, your checking account balance. How many of you have cash in your wallets right now? That's a lot. I ask usually a little bit like $5. Because I will ask my class, my students, and it's like nobody raises their hands. And why is that? No, why is that? Because all of us, how many of you have a debit card? Yeah, everybody, right? That's precisely why. The reason is that all of us have a checking account balance, which is basically it's just a number somewhere online. And whenever we want, we can take that debit card and go swipe it at a restaurant, at a store, at an ATM. That checking account balance serves as a substitute for the money in my wallet. It is more convenient. It is safer to just kind of keep that debit card with me and just rely on the fact that there is somebody keeping the ledger, my bank. I trust my bank. We all implicitly trust our banks here, right? The money is there. We do. The fact that not all of us have cash in our wall is we are trusting the financial system to keep that electronic ledger safe. And because we trust it, that balance acts as a money substitute. Now in the past, stuff like banknotes, banknotes that were issued, banks had the freedom to issue their own banknotes. And competing banknotes would circulate against each other. Those banknotes, so if you had a bunch of gold under a gold standard or a silver standard, you would take your gold, go to the bank, deposit it, keep it there for them to keep it safe, and they would issue banknotes. And those banknotes would serve as money substitutes. In more recent times, an interesting example of a money substitute would be if you've heard of M-Pesa, which is an electronic currency in Africa which is being used. It's kind of spontaneously arisen in Africa, and especially in Kenya. It's basically minutes on your SIM card of your cell phone. People have been taking those minutes on their SIM card and transferring them, and those SIM card minutes have basically started acting like money. And it became such a widely used thing that it actually has a name, and you have competing companies issuing their own inside money.  Because in Africa, it's dangerous. There's not a lot of banks. There's no financial system to transfer money. You can just write a check. If you want to send money to somebody, you have to send them physical cash. This makes it safer. You're just sending an electronic number of minutes on a cell phone. And those things, and there's a huge market. And that is an example of a privately created inside money. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is not. It's not a money substitute. It is not redeemable for anything. So redeemable or backed by means you would have to deposit actual money and be able to withdraw the Bitcoin, which it is not. What it is, is a money proper. Because it has a market price. A market price against every other major currency in the world now. And there are hundreds of Bitcoin exchanges. You can buy and sell Bitcoin for basically every other currency in the world. And that market price fluctuates, depending on demand and supply. And so it is not, if we had to go ahead and classify it, it would not be, it is not a money substitute. It is actually a money proper. And I would argue that it comes closest to being basically a commodity money. Now it's not, obviously it is not a typical commodity money. It is not gold. And this is one of the reasons it gets a lot of criticism. What is it? What if it just crashes? What is it backed up by? What is its actual intrinsic value or use value? Well, it did. Obviously there was some sort of initial use value in the beginning. Even though it's not something tangible that I can kind of hold in my hand. It's on my phone. It's a piece of code. But hey, I mean, there's so many things that add value to our lives that are literally pieces of code on our phones. So think about something like Facebook or Google or, right? I mean, all of those things, literally they are pieces of code, but they have a large use value to us. So the question, what we have to answer is, well, was there an initial intrinsic or use value for Bitcoin? And all the research that I've read on it says that, well, it was initially just being used and held for even by just a small inner circle of like, you know, computer geeks just to hold it as a play thing. And they were literally trying to hack it and break it. But people started to just buy it and hold it because it was something that was interesting. And so whatever that use value was initial, it existed because that was enough for a market price to be established. And that's what we've got today. Okay, now that's well and good, right? You can have the most perfect currency or the most perfect commodity, gold. Okay, in the past, we've had gold be money and you can have money that has the most perfect properties. But just having something that is perfect in terms of properties does not ensure that it actually gets used as a medium of exchange or that it actually goes past that barrier and becomes a currency. So what you need for a currency or a medium of exchange to emerge is for people to voluntarily trade with it, to trust it, to use it as a medium of exchange. And so the question then becomes, okay, you know, Bitcoin's pretty unlikely. Why are people using it and holding it and trusting it in the first place? Because trust is crucial when it comes to any kind of medium of exchange to emerge. So if you think about some of the properties that we talk about, okay, so if you have initial use value, initial intrinsic value, something like gold that has these industrial uses, it is scarce, it is divisible, it is transferable, it's non-perishable, all of those qualities. If you think of Bitcoin in those terms, well, I mean, yeah, okay, it does have a certain ease of use, it is pretty easily transferable, it's not perishable, does it have a large use value to start with? Well, not really. So the question we have to answer is, okay, why? Where does the trust come from? Because a medium of exchange is something that, again, like I said, it's something that you use only to exchange again, to give away again. So I'm only going to hold it. I'm only going to hold it if I trust that somebody else will take it from me in exchange. And that guy is only going to take it from me in exchange if he trusts that somebody else will take it from him in exchange for other goods. And that guy is only going to hold it if he trusts somebody else will take it from him in exchange. It is not a consumption good to start with. When it comes to consumption goods, you know when you consume it, there is a certain use value, right? You don't need to really trust it. So if you go buy something that is like a brand new watch or a pair of shoes from a new business, there's an easy test there. It's a consumption good. If it doesn't fulfill its promise, what do you do? You never go back there again, right? You don't trust them again. You leave a bad review. That's how the market sorts itself out, okay? How do you do that when it's a money? How do you do that when it's a currency? Why would you hold something ever? If you didn't know everybody else or somebody else would take it from you, why would you trust something? It's a huge chicken and egg problem when it comes to currency. And it's not just something that exists with new currency, it exists even with old currency. So even with the dollar, even with something as large and incumbent as the dollar, if trust, if tomorrow for some reason the trust that the dollar would hold its value would start to fall, guess what would happen to the value of the dollar? It would start to fall as well. It's the trust which is key. And so in terms of why people trust or have been trusting Bitcoin, I think is the more relevant question. A lot of people like to kind of think about Bitcoin, oh, it's going to crash. Oh, this is crazy. This will never last. And that's fine. It may crash and Bitcoin in the form that it is today, the original Bitcoin may not last. And that's not the point. To me, from the point of view economics, what is very interesting is how did it get this far in the first place? It's extremely unlikely. It's highly improbable. That's something that is not being created by a government. It is not being backed by anybody or anything. It is literally only backed by a piece of code, but somehow the market and somehow it becomes this global phenomenon where people actually start to use it as a medium of exchange. And that is incredible. It's incredible from the point of view of monetary economics. And that is the interesting question to answer. When is this thing going to die? The incredible question to answer is, okay, how did this thing get to this place in the first place? Because it should not be. I mean, if you asked a monetary economist 10 years ago, what if we had this thing that comes out of nowhere? It's a piece of code and suddenly it becomes this global thing and it has this market price and people are trading it and using it to buy things. They'd be like, no, that's crazy. That would never happen. But it did. And so we have to be able to answer why. And I think it goes deeper. The reason that it is, it still exists and it's still there is because there are these deeper characteristics of Bitcoin and blockchain in more generally that are helping create trust. So the first one is the fact that everything is public. Every transaction is up on this public ledger which is called the blockchain. And it is publicly verifiable. So if you had to create trust from nowhere for something that nobody has trust for yet, an important property is transparency.  That helps. That goes a long way. Now another one is that a public blockchain, which is what the Bitcoin blockchain is modeled on, is completely open. It's an open blockchain. So what that means is it allows, there's complete free entry and free exit. Anybody in the world can choose to become a miner.  In the past, maybe 2010, 2011, you could literally start mining on your little computer at home. You can't do that anymore. It's the harder that it's gotten to for Bitcoins to be generated, the more computing power it takes. So you actually have to make a sizable investment. Does anybody, is anybody a miner? Cool. Okay. How long have you been a miner? Okay. Neat. But the point is that anybody can do it. And anytime you want to leave, you can leave. As long as there is an incentive, as long as there is money to be made, as long as there is Bitcoin to be mined, as long as there's a profit to be generated, there will be computing power that is supplied. And the third or the last one, which I think is kind of the most important is the fact that it is based on open source code. Now what is open source code? Open source code is something it's completely different from, let's say, like a Microsoft or Apple, the way Apple works, stuff that we're used to, which is based on proprietary software. Open source code is not controlled or owned by any one person. No one person has control over what happens with the code. It's completely open. So anybody can supply and help and develop the code. Now that sounds crazy, right? It sounds ridiculous. It sounds like a public goods nightmare. But actually when it comes to software, it works. It works really well. And what you get is the distinction between proprietary software where you have one central decision maker that has all the power to change the code versus something that is completely open and no one person has power to change the code. The only way changes come about is through consensus. Now, why is that important when it comes to money or a medium of exchange? Well, if Amazon or Overstock tried to issue their own cryptocurrency, but they had complete power to change the code, like they started out saying, okay, so the total number of whatever Amazon coin will be 20 million. But as time goes on and they see that the price keeps inflating, they're like, oh, okay, no, we just changed the code. It's going to be 50 million now, right? How far do you think people would trust an Amazon coin where the proprietor had the power to change unilaterally the supply? And this is pretty similar to what we've got, right? In terms of our currency today, which is fiat money, right? You have a central bank that has power. You have a board of governors and you have Federal Open Market Committee. And basically it's pretty much them. And they do have that kind of power to unilaterally keep changing and increasing the money supply. This is the big difference here. No one person has that power to do that. Now, why does that create trust? Well, if I know that nobody else can cheat, right? I am much more likely to trust something and to use it, or even if I'm just holding it to be able to exchange it again. Now, that doesn't mean that there's no profit to be made. There is profit to be made. It's just not from changing the code. The profit comes from actually developing applications and websites and apps above the open source code. And so you can create proprietary apps and you can sell a service, something like what BitPay does, which is a payment processing website. And they've been in this business for a long time and they are one of the largest Bitcoin payment processors. That's a profit-making business, but they don't have the power to change the underlying code. Okay, why does this matter? Well, it does seem chaotic, right? How does change come about? Now, a great example of this is the Bitcoin Cash, which has kind of come about in the past one year. There has been a large disagreement in the core community of Bitcoin and there was this contingent that has kind of forked away and they've created their own Bitcoin, which is called Bitcoin Cash now. And the point of disagreement was that we need to be able to process more transactions. We need a blockchain that is processing more transactions that has a larger block size. And there was no way that they could agree. This core group, they couldn't find agreement. And so a part of the contingent decided to fork and to go their own way and create their own Bitcoin and that has happened. And so today, the Bitcoin that we're talking about isn't actually the only Bitcoin in existence. The Bitcoin that I kind of showed you the data on is the original Bitcoin, but there is a vibrant new Bitcoin, which is called Bitcoin Cash, which is based on a larger block size and the ability to process more transactions and which is something that is more going to be sustainable in the future. It seems chaotic, but it's actually not. It seems like a weakness, it's actually a strength. This is what competition and currency should look like. There should be freedom to exit, there should be freedom to start your own new currency that is based on more sustainable and better transparent principles and that is exactly what is happening. Now, has that led to, does that mean, you know, is that going to lead to Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash becoming, you know, the new dollar taking over the dollar? Probably not, right? Probably not. Not in a country like the United States, which already has a very well functioning financial system. And so the demand for something like Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash or Cryptocurrency, it's hard to create a demand, an initial demand. Despite the fact, you know, there are potential advantages. All of these potential advantages, which is being able to send money across the world for a very low transaction fee. Privacy, the fact that you don't have to divulge all of your financial information. Lower chance of, you know, charge backs and all of the fees that credit card companies and, you know, that they lose all the money on fraud, all of those things are reduced. Now, however, why have we not seen a large takeover of Bitcoin in, especially here in the United States? Now, it has gained in circulation in countries where, like Venezuela or Argentina, where there has been, you know, a lot of volatility in their fiat currency or there's been a lot of instability in their political atmosphere, there has been more use. But why do we not see a larger mass adoption in the United States or in Europe, right, in the developed countries? Well, obviously it doesn't help. The volatility doesn't help, especially over the past year. It's hard for something to be used as a unit of account and as a store of value when there is that kind of volatility. But that's not the only hurdle towards it being established as a strong medium of exchange. Now, how many of you have ever, how many of you hold Bitcoin or have a Bitcoin? Okay, that's cool. That's a lot more than last year. How many of you have ever paid for something with Bitcoin? Okay, cool. I mean, that's cool. That's about like 50% of the people that hold Bitcoin, right? That's probably the largest show of hands I've had in a group. But anyway, this is still a biased group, right? If you were to ask some, you know, if you were to just like pull people off the street and ask them the same question, I mean, that percentage would be way lower. And the reason is that unless you have a large incentive or a large amount of information and knowledge about this thing, it's really hard to go from, you know, not knowing anything about Bitcoin. You've just heard about stuff, you know, on the news. It's really hard to go from there to go to actually buying some and then paying for something with it. And if there was a monetary incentive, if there was a monetary incentive just the way there is a monetary incentive for merchants, the reason there's been a large adoption, the side on which there's been a large adoption of Bitcoin is on the merchant side. So there's literally hundreds of thousands of merchants that accept Bitcoin as payment. And the reason they do that is because it is in their best interest to do so. When you accept a payment through Bitcoin, you barely have any transaction fee or any kind of fee. It's probably 0.1% that you have to pay. But if you accept, well, if you are a merchant and you accept payment through a credit card or a debit card, you have to pay a 3% transaction fee to the bank or the credit card company. So for merchants, there's been a very clear advantage to accept Bitcoin.  That's a large part.  But on the consumer side, there has not been large monetary incentive to accept it. Now, that's not the only issue. The big issue, of course, is what we call network effects. Money is a network good, just like something like social media or Facebook is a network good. Right? How hard would it be for somebody to another social media website to, if they wanted to compete with Facebook, how hard is that going to be? If they wanted to bring the, how many billion people on Facebook now? Seriously? Two billion? Okay. I mean, how hard is it going to be to get two billion people to switch over? Because it's, again, it's a chicken and egg problem. I'm on Facebook because all my friends are on Facebook. I've got 500 people that I know that are on Facebook. They're on Facebook because their friends are on Facebook.  It's because it's a network good. Right? It's a network good. You're there for the network. The money is the same way. You and I, we use dollars today because everybody else in the United States use dollars. Right?  I mean, you could say like, hey, I'm just going to bother now or I'm just going to trade with Bitcoin. And you can try and do that. It's going to be way harder. Right? It's going to take a lot more. What economists call, there's going to be a much higher search cost involved. It's going to be much harder and it's going to take a lot more time to trade to find people to trade with. And this is why we all tend to why a certain network, once it gets to be a certain size, there's a self enforcing tendency for it to just kind of get larger and larger. Even though it may not be supplying you with the best quality of product or it may not have the best properties, but networks tend to kind of you tend to see a convergence towards something that is good, but not the best alternative because of the nature of network goods. And money just happens to be one of those goods which has extreme network properties. And so it's extremely hard in a country like the United States for something like Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency to really take effect. And this is the exact reason why you see larger Bitcoin adoption rates in countries where the incumbent currency network, like their own fiat money, if it is faltering or there's high amounts of inflation or high amounts of uncertainty in that society and that network effect is not as strong anymore, it's precisely in those countries that Bitcoin adoption is high. And that's not the only issue. We're pretty spoiled. We're used to with our money. We're not used to a lot of competition. We're used to competition in things like cars and houses and shoes, but we're not used to competition in monetary products. Banks, what kind of informational burden do they put on you? Did any of us ever pay for starting a checking account at a bank? No, it's free. They give you an ATM card for free. They just want your money in the bank basically. And as long as that system keeps working, there's a large incentive for us to just kind of stay there. This is like a bias group. You guys want to learn and you want to know more and you're informed about everything that is happening. And so you do know what Bitcoin is and you may have used it, but most people think about your grandma or even your mom or your dad. Why should they care about something that sounds like it's crazy? About something that sounds like it would take a lot of understanding, a lot of understanding of economics and studying to even get to a point where you would be able to trust something to want to hold some of it. So there's a very large informational burden. And it's not something we're used to.  Do you lose your money? No.  The fact that it's backed up by FDIC creates a moral hazard. It creates much less of an incentive for you to be keeping tabs on your bank. This is not the case with Bitcoin. I mean, it's a new technology. There's no thing as FDIC. You can lose your money. I mean, anybody lost Bitcoin here? That hurts. It's no fun. It's no fun losing money. There is no fun in losing money. So last year, I was in a position where I had some Bitcoin and I had forgotten or lost my password. And basically, if you lose your password, it's gone. It's gone forever. And then there was that extreme inflation that took place. And I was like, OK, now I've got the incentive to really find it. So it was me. And Bob Murphy, we were emailing back and forth. He was in the same position. And so we had these tricks going back and forth. I did go and find my password. But that was only because the price was at $20,000. And I did not sell, but that's another story. Which I wish I had. And I blame my students, actually. Because every time, somehow, there's these large bubbles in the fall. And I'm always teaching money in banking. And I ask my students, should I sell my Bitcoin? What do you think? And they're like, no, no, no. Just hold on to it. OK. OK. Yeah. So, yeah. It's no fun, right? I mean, there's way more risks involved. And so absent any kind of obvious monetary incentive, absent the fact that it is there's so much high informational burden involved. These are large hurdles. It's very hard. And we're not used to choice. We're not used to competition in monetary products. But this is a good thing. The way cryptocurrency has kind of evolved, there's been a lot of ups and downs. There's been volatility. There's been companies that come crashing down. All of that stuff is normal. It's normal in a marketplace. Market institutions are not perfect. And for some reason, when Bitcoin goes up and down or there's a bankruptcy or there's fraud taking place, people are really quick to just kind of like, oh, it's all crazy, right? It's all nuts. The entire concept of Bitcoin is it's going to be gone. That's not true. This is how a market evolves. There will be ups and downs. There will be volatility. The markets are not perfect. And we should not expect them to be. We should not expect to see perfection. What we should expect to see is the correcting mechanism of profit and loss.  And what we've seen over time is better and better developments of security taking place. And it's only the stronger entrepreneurs that are able to stay and that are able to raise money and that are able to raise venture capital. This is, I mean, this is extremely rare. It's very fascinating. You know, whatever you may think of Bitcoin, that's fine. But the basic economic characteristics of it is what make it so fascinating. This is something that should not exist. And yet it does. It's something that is a testament to entrepreneurship and to market institutions. It's something that is extremely rare historically. So money is something that has been highly regulated. It's probably the most regulated, the most controlled by the state institution that is good through history. And it's to be able to see markets and entrepreneurship working in this sphere is actually very fascinating.  I don't think it is. And like I said, it's even though there are so many challenges in the United States for it to become like this massively adopted currency, you know, a large part of the world still does not have banks or financial institutions. Even if they have central banks, they have very weak currencies or they have dictators and something like if you can have a currency on your phone, most people, even the poorest of the poor people in most of the world actually have cell phones, cell phone and just mobile phone. Penetration is much, much, much larger than, you know, something like a financial institution or a commercial bank. If you can have money that you can trust and that you can send and transfer value using your phone and your internet, that is huge. That's a big deal. And we may very likely see cryptocurrencies, especially the ones that are, you know, Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, the ones that are based on open blockchains, not the ones, you know, that are kind of like created by the government itself. Like why would you trust that? There's no real reason to trust a government or a right of Venezuela and dictate or create a cryptocurrency, even if it's a cryptocurrency, that doesn't make it. What matters is that it's open and it's transparent. Those cryptocurrencies, there's a good chance we see larger adoption rates in those countries and developing countries. And I think the best part of it is that it gives us competition and choice in currency and it's not something that we're used to having. So that's pretty neat. And so we should definitely something to kind of cheer on. And it's a very strong testament to how markets can coordinate complex behavior and bring about complex institutions spontaneously. And that's exactly what Bitcoin is, even with its volatility. Okay, thank you.


Aloha and welcome to this latest installment of Living Legend Lawyers. That is a program sponsored by the HSBA and that's the Hawaii State Bar Association and put on by Think Tank Hawaii. My guest today is Carol Mon Lee and theme for this particular program is the, you can tell me what the theme is because I just got noticed that I'd be appearing on this program with you and sort of asking you questions and interviewing you but I gather you came up with a theme for this particular program. Right. Well my suggested theme was making room for women lawyers in the state of Hawaii because both you and I have been in practice now for over 40 years and in the early days we were pioneers. Yes, you were actually, I looked you up on, it appears that we've known each other for approximately 42 years because I was a student at the Richardson School of Law when you were on the faculty. Correct. And I just realized this. So that comes to 42 years that we at least made each other's acquaintance. So I want to welcome you to this program and we're going to start with some questions about your varied background but I understand that you're not only a lawyer but you are also an educator, you're a community activist, you're a corporate executive and that you've practiced in these fields for several years during those four decades that you've been in the profession of law. So can you tell me, Carol, what made you become a lawyer? Oh well, Susan, I don't know what your reasons were in the past but when I went to law school which was between 1971 and 1974, there were very, very few women in the law profession. I mean, there were a handful of token women, women like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who may have been one of among whatever, three or four in her class, but in the late 60s and 70s, a few more women started to go to law school and in part that was due to law schools expanding the enrollment to women because men were going off to war in those years Vietnam. So to fill the seats, women were being encouraged to attend. So when I attended law school there were only 15% women but the reason why I chose law school at that time was because I was actually trained to be a teacher. I had a master's in fine arts and fine arts education but I couldn't find a teaching job in the early 70s. So living in San Francisco and law school being practically free at UC Hastings, I decided to go to law school. At that time I wasn't sure I was going to graduate even or practice. I was one among 15% women. Now when you started law school, Susan, in 1975, 74, what percentage of women were lawyers at UH Law School? I was told that the percentage was nearly half but it was just under 50%. And of course the profession was very sparsely populated with women. And when I got out of law school and went into litigation, I could count on one hand the number of women who were litigating in court. So when you were at Hastings, did you have an idea of where you were going to practice or if you were going to practice? None whatsoever. As I said, I wasn't even sure I was actually going to graduate. And I did, and I did graduate and practice law for two years in general litigation for them in Los Angeles. And by chance I came here with my then husband to Hawaii and he said, let's move to Hawaii. So we moved to Hawaii. And what brought you to, at that time it was called the University of Hawaii School of Law. Right. I had realized that I didn't really care for litigation. And having been an educator or teacher before I went to law school, I thought maybe that's the best combination of teaching law, combining my law background with my interest in teaching. So I taught for two years at UH and realized again after two years that actually I preferred not teaching although I really enjoyed the academic environment. And so I went to downtown Honolulu to work at American Trust Company in the corporate field for about 15 years. Well actually you didn't just work there, you became a corporate officer? Yes. And how long did you spend in that field? I was about there for 15 years. But in between I actually was a staff attorney for the Hawaii State Constitutional Convention in 1978. So I got an opportunity to understand how the legislative, in this case the constitutional process worked, met wonderful people, really connected to many future leaders of our community. But I worked in the corporate field for about 15 years and then our companies were sold. There were a couple of companies that were sold and at that point I took an opportunity to again do something else. I went back to practice for a short time, did some independent consulting and then an opportunity arose to become associate dean at the law school again. So I went back to the law school thinking that it would be the best combination of my skills at that point which were interest in education, administrative skills developed after 15 years in the corporate world. But using my law background to be among butting lawyers, law students so that I could work with both the faculty and the students in curriculum and other issues relating to becoming lawyers. But during this sojourn of yours through these various fields, how many women did you encounter in the practice of law? In the practice of law was always very few, very few. I remember when I was in Los Angeles I was of course the only woman at the time in my small firm and then we joined organizations like the Southern California Chinese Lawyers Association and California Women Lawyers. And these were butting organizations that had kind of grown out of the growth in the field of having both minorities and women as lawyers. And so it was an exciting time for me and you too in the 70s where this awareness and this opportunity to make changes in a profession that was traditionally populated by men, mostly white men and in these standard fields of law practice and maybe some politics and business. But what I saw was an opportunity to get into whether it's education, nonprofit world and other opportunities that lawyers are useful and can use their skills in but hadn't been promoted very much in the past. But during this period of time you and a handful of others, other women, got together and saw a need for banding together in a group in order to make inroads in what was traditionally a male profession. So can you tell us about that? Sure. In this period of time in the late 70s, Ray Sanchu who was one of the few women lawyers in the state of Hawaii, she founded Hawaii Women Lawyers. And the trigger for her was that the first graduating class of UH Law School, the class before yours, the class of 76, had a number of women lawyers. So suddenly in our state were not just lawyers, women lawyers who had come from other schools in the mainland and moved here or moved back here, but we had some homegrown local graduates who were women. So Ray organized them in this Hawaii Women Lawyers group that met on a monthly basis and I, she and I, she is my friend, I helped her organize it. And we became a, I became the first president, official president in 1980, and we would hold monthly meetings. We would encourage women to get together, provide programming on all sorts of opportunities, learning about specific skills, opportunities about judgeships, how to prepare it for an interview to become a judge, how to, we provided lists to the governor at that time over the years with Governor Waihei to give him names of qualified women who could become appointed to cabinet positions. So we were very proactive in promoting women and opportunities for women by helping them not just giving information about what opportunities are out there, but even preparing things like writing up a good portfolio or resume to present, how to interview and writing letters on their behalf. So we were very active in promoting women to go into positions of more leadership. Well, I know that Hawaii Women Lawyers, which has been in existence now for almost 40 years, does all of these things now. But back then in 1980, it wasn't very easy, was it? No, it was hard. Well, I remember actually putting labels on folding up the monthly thing. We only had 100 labels. There were only 100 women in the state that received our mailings. We decided we would mail to all women regardless of whether they were officially members of Hawaii Women Lawyers. So it was a slow and steady process, but I'll tell you Susan, it was a very much of a bonding process because my best friends are still among those women lawyers whom we work together with very closely in those days. Well, I think the success of the organization speaks to the efforts that you've made over these decades to grow that organization and to make all of its programs available not only to its members, but to all of the female lawyers in this state. By the way, there was actually an outgrowth of Hawaii Women Lawyers, the Hawaii Women Legal Foundation, and that is a charitable organization that has some ties to Hawaii Women Lawyers. And that goes out into the community, contributes money as well as efforts on all types of social causes.  Well, you were also a past president of Hawaii Women Lawyers, right? Well, yeah, but I wasn't back in 1980. Back then I was still struggling to get a foothold in court. And as you know, back then the number of women in court were, you could count on one hand. So the efforts of Hawaii Women Lawyers, your efforts in organizing that group are appreciated by not only me, but by all of the members of the litigating profession. And right now I can tell you that when I started litigating I would walk into a conference room or into a courtroom and be the only woman in sight. Most of the judges were men, very few women, and most of the attorneys were men. But today, if you walk into a conference room or a courtroom, I will tell you that over 50% are women. So really kudos to you and to the efforts of everybody that worked with you. And joining the Hawaii Women Lawyers and making women really a very important segment of the legal profession. Well, thank you, Susan. We used to say that why is our organization even necessary, Hawaii Women Lawyers? Well, actually the longer term goal is that we wouldn't be necessary because there is no Hawaii Men's Lawyers Association. They don't need representation. They don't need somebody to advocate on their behalf to get more positions or more responsibility. So we are slowly moving toward that point because I see these younger women lawyers, they don't necessarily see a difficulty that if they want to become a judge someday, the barriers aren't the same. Maybe they have different choices, but the opportunities are now there, just as you said. So yeah, in the long term maybe there will be no need for such an organization. One hope so, but I sense particularly at this moment that there are still these barriers and I don't know whether or not those barriers will come down. But what I think your organization, well Hawaii Women Lawyers, which is my organization as well, and the organization of most of the women lawyers that I know will certainly help to bring down those barriers. What barriers do you see now? I'm curious. You're out there in the field still practicing. I've retired and now do something else. But what are the barriers that are in the way of young women lawyers or women lawyers in general? Well, I definitely think that there are barriers, particularly just gender-based barriers, not necessarily based on abilities or whatever comes along with being a woman, particularly in litigation, which is my field. I no longer litigate, but I am an arbitrator mediator these days. And I see that women still have to make choices that men don't have to make, choices between their profession, their children, their family, caregiving in general, and all of the things that come around with family. I know that men have made strides in that area as well, and I think that we are certainly moving toward a society where men and women can share in most everything, but there's still these barriers and there's still these problems. So that's what I meant. I've known women lawyers who had to forego careers in private law firms because of those choices that they had to make. The hours that are necessary to work to become a partner in a firm versus spending more time with your family. Well, when we get back from break and we're going to be taking a break right now, we'll get into other areas of your resume, which are just as interesting. So we'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. For more than 100 years, American Humane Association has been teaching kids to be kind to animals. Those in our homes, on the farms, on the silver screen, and wildlife conservation caring for the world's vanishing creatures, but we can't do it alone. Visit kindness100.org to find ways to teach kids how they can make a more caring, compassionate, and humane world for all of us. Aloha. I want to invite all of you to talk story with John Wahee every other Monday here at Think Tech Hawaii. And we have special guests like Professor Colin Moore from the University of Hawaii who joins us from time to time to talk about the political happenings in this state. Please join us every other Monday. Aloha. Thank you for joining us back from the break. I'm talking with Carol Mon Lee, our guest for today. And we've been talking about the Hawaii women lawyers and what she's done in regard to bringing women into the forefront of the legal profession, because at this point I think it's fair to say that women have joined men in the forefront of the profession and making some decisions that will affect other lawyers, men and women, as they progress from new lawyer to experienced lawyer to gray haired lawyer. And right at this point I think you and I sort of function more in the latter category, but your progression through the practice of law and in the legal profession has had many capacities. We've talked about your being an educator, an organizer, a community activist, and we've talked a bit about your going into the corporate world. But of all of these various capacities that a lawyer can occupy, which has given you the most satisfaction? Well, you know, each position that I held, I held because I enjoyed it and learned something from it. Certainly for my 12 years at the law school, both as a teacher in the earlier 70s and then as the associate dean until I retired in 2006, working with students was really satisfying because you're watching young, inquisitive, open-minded, smart future lawyers who are interested and ready to absorb so many different things and are excited about what they're learning. So I really enjoyed the relationships that I built in the way that we could kind of mold students to develop skills, maybe values that I'd like to see in the rest of the world. And you're still involved in the education field in a manner of speaking. You're on some boards? Yeah. Well, actually, I retired from UH Law School at the end of 2006, and so it's already been 12 years. But you were the associate dean. I was the associate dean, right? And so since then, I've had a number of opportunities to work with the law school. But one thing I decided to do, which was I ran for the board of education. Now, in 2008, our younger viewers may not know this, but in 2008, up to that point, members of the board of education were elected to office. 2010, the Constitution was changed to make it a appointed board by the governor. But so I ran, I decided to run for board of education, and I won, surprisingly. I had never been interested in running for office. I am not interested in running for any more offices, but I was really interested in seeing if I could make at least a difference or at least have some input into our state K through 12 education system. So that was a wonderful opportunity to learn more about our public school system here in Hawaii. Right now, as I mentioned, the Constitution was changed in 2010, and that was because one of the many difficult decisions that we, as board of education members, had to make was to meet a huge budget shortfall. If everybody remembers in 2008 and 2009, we had huge cutbacks. And we had already tried over the years, reducing close to schools. We cut down programs that we tried to do as much as we could in saving money. But we, at that time in 2010, had decided to try something new, which were called 15 days of, I've forgotten what we called it, but we had no school for 15 days. So we cut back our school year from 170 plus to 155 days. That saved the school system money because we didn't end up having to close schools. We didn't end up having to fire teachers, which we couldn't do anyways, because of the unions. We didn't end up cutting any more programs, which we had already done. But by closing down the schools for those 15 days, we call them furloughs. We saved transportation costs for the students. We saved food money. We saved staffing money, and we were able to meet the budget. But there was so much negative feedback because of the furloughs that the governor and the state legislature and the public changed the way board of education members are identified. And that was to make it appointed by the governor. But for me, the interesting thing is, since then, actually, not only did our students' test scores not go down because of those years of furloughs, our school test scores stayed the same or actually went up, but now other schools on the mainland use furloughs as a way of meeting their budgets. In addition to that, you mentioned what else they do in education. I sit on a board called the Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education. Yes, I saw that on your resume. What exactly is that? Wichee. And many of our viewers may know Wichee by another acronym called WUI, which is one of his programs, Western Undergraduate Education. So Wichee is a 15-state plus territories consortium, 15 Western states and some territories. And our main theme is to promote access to higher education. And we do that through joint programs that involve include reducing tuition so that some of the schools, some students who choose to, let's say, go to a school in Oregon for undergraduate instead of paying out-of-state tuition if they go through our WUI program, they end up paying state tuition, in this case, plus 50%. So it's a much more reduced tuition cost. We also have programs for professional schools and graduate schools so that, for instance, since Hawaii, we don't have a dental school. We don't have ophthalmology. We don't have physical therapy, occupational therapy. We don't have a school of vet medicine. So where are Hawaii students going to go to learn those skills? Well, we want them to learn them and come back to Hawaii, but they have to go to the mainland to study. So rather than burdening them with the cost of paying out-of-state tuition to go to some of these great schools, so for instance, in South Dakota, there's a great schools of physical therapy, veterinary medicine in Colorado. Our students can go there if they're admitted. And rather than paying out-of-state tuition, they get to pay in-state tuition because of the partnerships that we, under which we have with these schools. And then they come back, hopefully, and practice here. And you served on this commission for how many years? I'm on my second term, so I've served on it for about five years. I have one more year. So these are public institutions? Yes, mostly public institutions, right, yes. Interesting. But you're also on board of governors for Hastings? Yeah, I graduated from UC Hastings in San Francisco, as I mentioned earlier. So this very varied career that you've had that has taken you, actually, to Hawaii, back to the mainland, and I guess you commute for some of the things that you do. Would you have had that career if you did not have a law degree? No. I really value my law degree. And that's one of the reasons why I am happy to serve on the board of my law school and also to continue whatever work I can do with UH and public education. And that is what I tell young people, is that having a law degree is value-added. It doesn't mean you have to become the traditional lawyer. You and I, you're a litigator, but I really didn't want or wasn't interested in that path. And that's really, people think of a lawyer, they think of Perry Mason, or they think of somebody in a courtroom. But having a law degree is so helpful, whether it's business, education, of course, public service, government, politics, entrepreneurs who have law degrees. So having a law degree has helped me immeasurably in terms of, as you know, thinking skills, writing skills, long-term, long-range planning skills, strategic thinking skills. So as an Asian woman in the 70s who was very petite and shy, I could easily have hidden in a corner and nobody would have ever seen me and as interested as I might have been in doing something. I didn't quite have the skill set. The law degree gave me both the skill set, but also the confidence to do something, to say something, and to be out there. You have just written my life story. So I want to thank you for being so open about your law experience. And I really want to thank you for sitting down today with me for this interview. I think that you are absolutely on the money with respect to how important a law degree, as well as just a law education can be in today's world. And I'm told that we are almost out for the second. So I want to thank everyone for listening in. And I want to thank Karamon Lee for appearing with us today. Aloha and goodbye. Thank you.


members statements. I recognize the member for Oakville. Thank you and good morning speaker and good morning to members of the legislature. I'm excited to rise today to highlight an exciting celebration that is returning to my riding of Oakville. Culture Days provides the opportunity to explore with local artists, sharing culture events and celebrate Oakville's Lakeside charm. From September 22nd to October 15th our community comes alive with an array of arts and culture in nearly 100 events. At last year's Culture Days 2022 the town of Oakville was ranked number one in the participating communities listing. The town was recognized in the top spot in Canada. This year get ready to immerse yourself and explore the nearly 100 local events such as the return of the World of Threads Festival, hear singers and songwriters and inspirational speakers, celebrate Indigenous heritage and culture, enjoy live shows with community musical performers such as the Wan Wing Group and the Halton Regional Chinese-Canadian Association and discover the history at Oakville's Museum and learn about their Oakville's role in the Underground Railroad and much much more. Speaker have to take this opportunity to acknowledge that Culture Days in Oakville and across Ontario is thanks to support by the Ontario Trillium Foundation supporting our local artists and allows them to thrive and showcase their talents. Speaker as we approach the final stretch of Oakville's Culture Days I would like to invite everybody to celebrate, learn and enjoy this festival together. Thank you and happy Thanksgiving to all the members of Legislature and all the staff here today. Thank you very much. Member statements, the member for Sudbury. Thank you very much Speaker. This afternoon students have locked to be competent school in my riding a Sudbury. We're coming together to kick off the annual Kids Helping Kids Cancer Drive in memory of Laura Contesta. Laura started this campaign in 1995. She was a Lockerbie Viking. She was battling cancer and at that time the care she needed wasn't available in Sudbury Speaker. So Laura had to travel to Toronto for treatment. She lived that gap in her health care system and she wanted to change it. Her obstacles inspired Laura to create a fund with the intention of approving all overall pediatric care in Sudbury. Laura's no longer with us Speaker but for the past 28 years generations of Lockerbie students have continued her annual cancer drive in Laura's name. The thing about the Kids Helping Kids Cancer Drive is that it's not just about fundraising. It's about promoting collaboration, compassion, citizenship within our community. It's about choosing to make a difference and inspiring others along the way. Just like Laura's legacy has inspired Lockerbie Vikings for nearly 30 years. The Kids Helping Kids Cancer Drive in memory of Laura Contesta makes me incredibly proud not just as Sudbury's MPP but as a proud Lockerbie grad. Speaker Sudbury is a community that cares. I want to thank all the students and staff at Lockerbie for their continued dedication to fulfilling Laura's dream, honour and senior legacy and continue to raise awareness about the importance of having pediatric care available in the north. Close to friends, close to family and close to home. Go Vikings. Member Stavins, the member for Perth Wellington. Thank you Speaker. As a representative of one of the largest agriculture producing areas in Ontario with over 4,000 farm families it's an honour to rise in this place to recognise the 25th Ontario Air Culture Week. 25 years ago MPP Burt Johnson established Ontario Air Culture Week through a private member's public bill. MPP Johnson represented the riding of Perth Middlesex from 1995 to 2003. We all owe our thanks to MPP Johnson for this important week and recognition of our air culture sector. Year after year farm families work through changing seasons and market fluctuations to ensure that our province is fed and well nourished. Every day farmers and air culture workers across this province wake up before the sun rises to grow and prepare the food that we enjoy at our kitchen tables. Our government is focused on supporting our Ontario's air culture sector, strengthening our food supply chain. Our government has set an ambitious goal to increase the amount of food grown and produced in the province of Ontario by 30% by 2032. By doing so will create more good paying jobs and air culture in the food industry. We can never thank our farmers and air culture workers enough for the vital work they do to keep our province fed. They are the reason Ontario exports over $19 billion in agri-food products per year. These are among the many reasons why our government will always support Ontario's growing and thriving air culture sector. Thank you, Speaker. Member Statements, the Member for Thunder Bay, Superior North. The government allotted $10 million for dementia support, including respite care for families, but not a single dollar of this commitment has ever been spent. The recent report on the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act stated that without a significant change in direction the Ford government would fail to make Ontario fully accessible by 2025. However, rather than increasing efforts to meet the needs of Ontarians with disabilities, the budget for this ministry has been cut by $50 million. The Ford government also shot down my bill to create an advocate for older adults as an independent officer of the legislature. However, creating an independent advocate remains one of the primary recommendations of seniors across the province, including the RTO ERO that represents 80,000 retirees from the education sector. With such a large gap between rhetoric and what is actually being done, the Ford government is gas lighting, older adults and people with disabilities. This needs to change. I am calling on the government to create an independent advocate to address the needs of older adults, guarantee the funding needed to make Ontario fully accessible, and get those dollars out the door to support dementia services. Thank you. Thank you. Member for Lanark Frontenac Kingston. Thank you, Speaker. Speaker, over the summer months I attended many events, meetings and roundtables in my riding of Lanark Frontenac Kingston, connecting with residents and organizations and hearing what is most important to them. Healthcare and housing continue to be top of mind. And this government is listening with just over $5.8 million in funding for upgrades and repairs to hospitals in my riding, including Perth and Smith Falls as well as Carlton Place and Elmont, plus an additional $820,000 to address emergency department closures. Mr. Speaker, last month I was pleased to join Minister Colandra for the groundbreaking ceremony of the brand new 128-bed Broadview Nursing Home in my hometown of Smith Falls. This is part of this government's $6.4 billion commitment to build more than 58,000 new and reconditioned beds in this province. In July, I was honored to be part of the opening of Lanark County's newest five-unit community housing building. And look forward to the spring of 24, where CareBridge Community Support is scheduled to open another affordable housing project within my riding. Mr. Speaker, my sincere thanks to Minister Parza and Minister Colandra for joining me this summer for roundtable discussions, real conversations about how we can remove barriers and improve access to services. I look forward to welcoming Minister Gill next week to discuss streamlining productivity and efficiencies with stakeholders and business is in Lanark, Frontenac, Kingston. It was a productive summer, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. Member Stevens. Member for Tomiskaming, Cochran. Thank you, Speaker. On behalf of the official opposition, I would like to take a moment to recognize Agriculture Week in Ontario. The agri-food industry is a $47 billion contribution to this province. And there's over 800,000 people employed in the agri-food industry. But the foundation of that industry are the farm families who actually grow the food that we eat. That's what this whole province is built on. And to them, the people who have a special feeling, whether you grow cucumbers in a greenhouse or corn or soybeans in the field, there's a special feeling when you see those seeds come up from the ground. When you see the risk that you are taking, you feel it. You feel each time you watch them grow. And now it's harvest time, and the farmers are harvesting their crops. And that's a special feeling. When you harvest the crop, when you pull into a field and you feel, you see what's coming off. But there are also times when your crop fails, when you're calving a cow and your best cow dies or her calf dies. And the fact that they keep going with those challenges, that's what makes a farmer, that's what we're so proud. To be a farmer, and that's why we recognize farmers and their families today on Agriculture Week, our whole province is built on their backs. Thank you. Member statements? The Member for Etobicoke Lakeshore. One of my jobs and the joys of being an MPP is to share with this House from time to time how things are going in Etobicoke Lakeshore. Jobs are up, unemployment is down, small new businesses are sprouting everywhere. There's a sense of optimism in the air. And it's due in no small part to the kindness and community spirit of my constituents from every background and walk of life who contribute so much to the rich tapestry of Etobicoke Lakeshore. First, I would like to congratulate the Kingsway BIA who organized the 25th anniversary of the Taste of the Kingsway, a multi-ethnic event which has become the largest street festival in my writing. Secondly, I would like to congratulate the staff and volunteers at Franklin Horner Community Center for once again organizing extravaganza which encourages local residents to come out and meet their neighbors, participate in family-orientated activities and enjoy musical performances. And on the Long Branch side, there is an enthusiastic group of volunteers who organized from the Long Branch Neighborhood Association for their fifth annual tree fest which introduces planting for kids, interactive booths on the importance of trees in our ecosystem, and more. But I must add, Speaker, one of the most notable experiences I had lately was held in King City where I went to visit dog tails. Now, as a mother of two rescue dogs, myself, my heart melted and I want to thank the owners for their work. And just a reminder, if you're going to adopt a pet, make sure you make it their forever home. Make sure everybody has a happy and safe Thanksgiving. Thank you. Thank you. Member Statements. Member for Algoma, Manitoba. Speaker, and I've always taken my seat, give credit where credit is due, but I will hold this government to account where it needs to. First, Highway 129. I want to give credit to the Ministry of Transportation Service provided for the work they did on the Thessalon-Chapelow Highway of 129. However, on five ways, 519s into Dubriville, 631 into Horn Paine, 614 into Manitowash. Since when has it become a standard operating procedure to put in warning codes in roadside washouts? Are we waiting for the snow to fall in order to fill these potholes and these washouts? And when we travel into now on Highway 638 into Echo Bay, Liburn and Silver Valley, in Echo Bay, there's a place that they're referred to as the Echo Bay Car Wash. Since when has it become a standard operating process to accept water that's going over our highways and our roads? On highways 542 and 540, the resurfacing that has been happening on Manitoulin Island is horrendous by this government and the service provider is there. Lankty periods of time where there is no work that is being done, machines that are being parked on the roadside, the pulverizing is breaking cars down. The claims that are being put forward by the community members that are travelling on these roads are basically reimbursed nil and none. You have to do better. There has to be some accountability and this government must start overseeing the work that is being done by contractors on our highways. Member's statements? The member for Scarborough Centre. Thanks, Speaker. I'd like to welcome Jewel. Jewel is a company in my riding the Scarborough Centre. That is among leaders in designing, manufacturing, installing and supporting of battery-backed EV Level 3 Chargers, both in Canada and the United States. It gives me great pleasure to welcome Jewel, two co-founder, Sherman Pizarro, and Jimensou Soudin, who are guests here today in the gallery. Welcome to your house. I recently toured Jewel with Finance Minister Peter Beddon-Falvey. Jewel attracts businesses and engineering students from across Ontario University, including Scarborough. People driven to help create commercially viable energy solution to accelerate our transition to a sustainable world. It gives me great pleasure. Some of Jewel's summer students who are returning back to school in their studies this fall, I commend Jewel's founder for devoting their time and resources in developing of these young minds. Thank you, Jewel, for your leadership, contribution to Scarborough Centre and Ontario's economy. Thank you. Member statements? The Member for Brantford, France. Thank you, Speaker. Colleagues, coming up on October 12th, it will be World Site Day, as showcased by the International Agency for the Prevention of Blindness. This year's campaign focus is to bring attention on the importance of eye care in the workplace. As a practicing optometrist, I remember vividly like it happened yesterday. I was working at the Saginaw Valley Special Needs Vision Clinic.  And I was fortunate, as a little girl sat still enough for me to determine that she had a very, very strong prescription. I can remember taking a little trial frame and putting these lenses in it. And as we put it on her face, the little toy that she was holding up right in front of her, she dropped on the floor and looked around the room, seeing for the first time. That speaker was one of the single most gratifying experiences and, as it turned out, one of many to come in my field of medicine. Our government is committed to improving access to glaucoma and cataract care across our province. And our government, under the leadership of Premier Ford, has signed the first agreement with Optometry in over 30 years. So, colleagues, the hashtag this year is love your eyes. They are the only set that you will ever have. Thank you, Speaker. Point of order, the member for Carlton. Thank you, Speaker. The annual Panda football game was played this weekend with the University of Ottawa feeding Carlton in a thriller. I would like to acknowledge that the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Sport, Neil Lumsden, an Ottawa GG's legend as a fullback and kicker, still holds the Panda game scoring record with 25 points in one game and 61 career points. My constituency assistant, John Geoffrey Morris, who played for the Carlton Ravens and holds the Panda game records for longest punt and longest kickoff, informed me that Minister Lumsden is the greatest player in the history of Canadian University football.


Rowena, it's such a pleasure. I'm dying to ask you about your recent deal with USA Rare Earth. How about we start there? I'm very excited to start there. We've just signed a five-year supply arrangement with USA Rare Earths. We will commence deliveries to them next year in alignment with when they start commissioning their still water facility in Oklahoma. The intention is that we will provide 60% of the feedstock for that material over the next five years as they ramp that facility up. Initially, they're targeting to take that up to 1,200 tonne per annum, but I know that they've got ambitions to take that up to 4,800 tonne per annum as quickly as they can. We have frequently listed ASM as one of the top three Rare Earth projects in the world, and I think some of our audience may have forgotten some of the competitive elements of ASM. Would you mind just bringing them up to speed with what makes you most excited about ASM today? Well, first of all, it is the double project that we have in New South Wales Australia. It's obviously a tier one jurisdiction, and we have a very special all body that is construction ready, which in itself makes it unique in the industry that we can rapidly get this into production. We've got all the engineering work done. We've done all test work on the flow sheet. We've got all the environmental approvals in place. We're working with Hyundai Engineering at the moment on the final EPC definition, and we're just at the point where we are talking to off-take partners for the materials. We have light Rare Earths as well as heavy Rare Earths, but then also three other critical minerals in that deposit. There's Aconia, the Hafnia and the Niobium. We're talking to off-take parties, including a number of parties in the States. We're aiming to get those in place by the end of this financial year, and then through next year, moving through to final investment decision. We're expecting Dubbo to have its first production in early 27. That would be the first thing that really sets us up for success, but then one of the other aspects of ASM that really differentiates us is that we have got a strategy to go from mine all the way through to metal, and we have already committed to building our first metals plant in South Korea. That is already in production. We are sourcing third-party materials at the moment from Vietnam for that facility, and we are delivering to customers either a light Rare Earth metal or also the ND FEB alloy, that specialist alloy that is used for permanent magnet manufacture, and we have that going into two American customers. That would be the second aspect that I think really differentiates ASM from the rest of the market. Of course, you have members of your team. I think Dubbo was actually secured 20 some years ago, nearly 30 years. Is that correct? It was certainly over 20 years ago when it was first discovered, and they've done a lot of exploration. The life of mine for the project is based on a 20-year reserve, but we've done the exploration work to prove up a resource with an additional 50 years, so it is a very long-life asset. Because it's got that polymetallic, it's got multiple materials in it, a very strong economics. What are your priorities for the upcoming quarter? This quarter we're very focused on two things. One is securing those off-takes for Dubbo, so we can have those in place by Christmas. Then secondly, we are focused on building a customer base for our metals plant in Korea. We've obviously already got some customers, but we're in a number of product validation processes with customers in Japan, in the US, and in Europe, so we're really wanting to grow that customer base so that we can ramp that production up in alignment with those customers' orders. For those of you new to ASM, please go to their website at the bottom of the screen. Thank you, Rowena, for joining us today. Thanks, Tracy.


Hello and how are you all today? My name is Priyanka. The question to be discussed is construct the following angles and verify by measuring them by a protector. So the angle that we need to draw is of 75 degrees. Before writing down the steps of construction and doing the same for you just think that till now you have learned how to draw a 90 degree angle and a 60 degree angle too. Now if you divide the sum by 2 you will notice that you will obtain a 75 degree angle right. So what you need to do in this question is to draw a 60 degree angle and similarly draw a 90 degree angle also and then by set the angle that will be formed between them. It will be more clearer to you as I will be drawing it for you simultaneously. First of all we need to draw a ray OA. This is the ray that we need to draw. Now on this ray OA I need to first of all construct an angle of 60 degree that is explained to you previously also. So I will be making it very fast. So this is an angle of 60 degrees that I have drawn. Now I need to draw an angle of 90 degree also. Now with this arc I will draw another arc and with these two arcs I will draw two arcs and join this arc with the center. So this is a 90 degree angle that I have drawn. Now the angle which is forming between this 60 degree and this 90 degree will be the required 75 degree angle for us. So what we need to do is I need to bisect this angle. Let me name this point as B. The first point of intersection as D, C, E, P and now I need to draw OQ that will be the angle bisector of angle P, O, B. So what I did is I constructed angle A, O, B equals to 60 degree and then angle AOP equal to 90 degree. Now the fourth step is to bisect angle BOP so that angle BOR is half of this whole angle that will be half of angle AOP that is a 90 degree angle minus AOP that is a 60 degree angle. So by this bisector let me draw the bisector for you also. So this OQ is the bisector of angle PO, P and now this 60 degree plus this 15 degree will give you a total of 75 degrees right. So what I have over here is angle AOQ that is angle AOP or AOB that was a 60 degree angle plus angle BOQ that is equal to 75 degree. So angle AOB plus angle BOQ gives you a full 75 degree angle that is 60 degree plus 15 degree and by protector also we find angle AOQ equal to 75 degree. So this ends my session hope you enjoyed have a good day.


Welcome to Toffee TV, it is the Everton News Daily. Shaun Dijs has spoke today ahead of Saturday's home game against Brighton Hove Albin, obviously reflecting on last night's comprehensive win over Burnley in the Carabao Cup and first of all he reacted to drawing Fulham in the next round. Yeah, another Premier League side at home though, we want to add to the home mentality, I think it's growing, like I said early season I think the performances were there, the outcome was, but we're getting the outcome right now and we certainly did last night, so we'll look forward to that game. There you go, obviously a good draw, any draw at home is a good draw isn't it, so that feels a long way off now Christmas week, so whatever happens we're seeing now and then, you know, we've got plenty of games, we've got an international break, so yeah we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, but looking forward to Saturday's game, Shaun Dijs give a update on the plays he has available and the plays he doesn't have available. James is going well, he'll hopefully get involved in a game in the 21s this weekend, he needs some game time of course but he's training very well and I think he's pleased to be back on the grass. Gomez and Deli are a bit further away though.  No Deli would have covered him, oh yeah sorry Andre, yes, yeah he's been very frustrated, he's got a niggly calf injury again, but he's coming back through that now. There you go, obviously yeah, Andre Gomez and Deli seem to be still a little bit away, I don't know will we ever see them in Everton Chateau game, we'll have to wait and see him. Good news on the Sheamus Coleman front, I think that game is on Saturday at 12 o'clock against Manchester United under 21s, yeah before Everton play Brighton so hopefully comes through that one unscathed and we have another option to join the squad ahead of a obviously very busy period coming up at the end of November going into December. The manager was also asked about Dan Dumer, obviously played last night in the number 10 role, bit of a quiet game for him to be honest but let's hear his thoughts on the performance. Well he's certainly working hard, he's working hard in training, we wanted to try and free him up a little bit in that role last night, excuse me, you know it's not easy when you're out the side you get put back in but he's certainly working hard and he's working hard to adapt to the team, we know he's, I think he's still he feels, we feel is probably his best position is coming off the left but you all well I pray for everyone who watched it, Dwight Maneal, I thought excellent last night particularly second half, so there's a challenge there but no it's not easy to be put in and then you know sometimes you're playing, wondering are you in or you out but on the other hand we tried to free him up and get a role where he could use his talent because he's a talented player. Yeah so there you go, difficult game for Dan Dumer just being thrust into that role the core has been playing it so well, well there's a rest for Dan Dumer for the core but we'll hope for more if Dan Dumer has to play in that role again. One player who did play well last night was Amadou Ohnane got himself on the score sheet and obviously his performances of later have been improved every single game, very very calm a show performance from him last night and as I said capped it off with a goal, he's been gathering more interest seemingly from Manchester United the support in the athletic, I think Manchester United have inquired about the player, again listen if our players are playing well and they are attracting the attention of other clubs then that can't be a bad thing you know we'll get the same thing with Jared Branthwaite as time goes by if your players are playing well and they're in form then I don't think that's anything to be scared of to be honest I think that's something we should obviously not encourage but not be scared of because it just shows you that players are getting better I'd rather have a situation where our players are playing well than are attracting the attention of other clubs than not playing well and we're going through that situation of not having good performances and stuff so yeah again we'll cross that bridge when we come to it and if the day comes then we should be prepared get our money that we want for them and hopefully have our have our replacements already in the club and ready to move forward always easier said than done but let's hope that that happens. In other news Evan have been linked with another leads player today Chris in here, Summerville has been linked, has been doing well in the championship so far I don't know we always just seem to be getting linked with leads players not sure if there's anything in it but we've been linked today and there has been an apology from Everton due to last night's um tain style situation I'll just read out the email that has come through from Dave Lewis who is the head of security and stadium management he says I wanted to write you to apologize for any convenience and discomfort you may have encountered upon entering the stadium yesterday for a very short period of time less than five minutes and so there was a number of tain styles around the stadium that were not accepting tickets printed or digital while the issue was quickly rectified it did lead to affected supporters being redirected by stewards to gutters from road box office the combination of supporters not to arrive for the game alongside those supporters you were the earlier impacted and returned to tain styles to gain entry led to a larger queues than normal to build up the kickoff this mainly impacted supporters in the main stand Howard Kendall lower garter seat the paddock lower and upper bullens while stewards were on hand to help direct supporters and to their other tain styles they were functioning correctly with smaller no queues to increase the flow rate of entry we are aware that some areas of the stadium queuing would have been uncomfortable especially for younger fans our stadium team safety stewards and police were monitoring the situation monitoring the situation and every effort was made to reduce the risks and yeah and it goes on a little bit longer but basically having holding their hands up saying there was a problem last night and they've got the apology out quite quick as well which is good to see communication between the club and the fans yeah I did walk through that on the bullens side it did seem to be a bit of a mess especially on the bullens and it'll be the same on on the gullison road I imagine where it's quite small there isn't that much space the queues are starting to build up people are trying to walk down the road naturally and it can become very a very uncomfortable situation quite quickly so um I know a lot there was some people who did not get into the ground till after kickoff and I think some people even missed the first goal which is sad and some people even give up on getting into the game as well so um disappointing if that were if you were involved in that last night and hopefully if it was people who were going for the to the first game or kids who were going for to the first game for the first time hopefully it doesn't put them off um going to the game whether that be gullison park or in the future at the new evidence stadium so there you go this has been the Everton news daily make sure to give this video like subscribe if you haven't already make sure to check out the match preview which is out now ahead of the game on Saturday and the final word from last night's performance tremendous performance against barely to get into the quarterfinals of the caribou cup thanks for watching see you later