This is the the other side of the bookend or the second bookend. I guess you'd say we started the convening earlier this week with a conversation about Where where is all of this going and those of you who are with us on stage who are on stage for that? remember that we started to draw a map and The map that we've been drawing relates to trying to get to a mountaintop and the mountaintop is the good account if the good economy a Sustainable resilient Equitable future for us all I'm lucky to have with me again a tremendously interesting group of people all of them colleagues We're going to help me talk about What the week has sort of told us about where our work is going but also really to give them a chance to elucidate The work that they're already doing and so I'll be trying to give a little bit of a contextual framing to that As you can see I have five Really smart really interesting people on stage with me, and I have one hour to make sure that we all get across what we want to But also give you a chance to ask this really interesting group of people some questions So I'm going to use every trick in my handbag to try to keep us going And I really appreciate your help in in and having me be able to do that so just to give us a couple of framing elements before before I have my Compadres here introduce themselves When we finished the conversation at the beginning of socap There were a couple things that came out and they're on the map and we'll show you the map when we finish today's discussion We've actually redrawn it and it's it's looking pretty great One of the things that came out was that the word impatience Wasn't really working so much for the group that was on stage and they wanted to replace the word impatience Which was the sort of counterbalance to patience patient capital patient Ability the ability to be patient about returns. They didn't like the word impatience They preferred to think of the sense of urgency, so we sort of think about urgency versus impatience a Couple of our panel members at the beginning of socap also Called out to the audience and said who out there is under 20 years old you remember Darren doing that Which gave us a chance to think for a minute about the really important Question of multi-generational and intergenerational disciplines in order to reach that mountaintop We talked about socap providing a marketplace in the context of an ecosystem that's not fully developed And I'm hopeful maybe we'll come back to that a little bit and when we talk today and We also Started to touch on the fact that it's really not that we're talking about a model We're talking about the multiple models for how you get to the mountaintop and and the question came up several times to me Anyway of whether or not part of what we need to work on is Conversing more articulately about which model each of us are deploying, you know, which structural elements which vehicles We're using so that we start to do a better job of educating one another about each model We're using and I know veneet and others and I have talked about that during the week So that's that's me laying a little context. I'm gonna actually ask each of my panelists to introduce themselves I'm not gonna go through these Biographies with you because you've got them, you know, many of these people. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves Starting with you veneet Tell the audience who you are what your organization is and something something fun or interesting about yourself Yeah, my name veneet right Manage a fund called a wish car founded a company called in telecap Fun That's a difficult part of it. I've been busy working. So fun has not been part of it, but I love to drive great Please hi, I'm Catherine Collins. I'm the founder of honeybee capital which focuses on research relevant to sustainability and all of its forms and increasingly focuses on Mimicry and natural principles as a framework for truly sustainable and even regenerative Investing and after many years of leading honeybee capital, but not actually being a beekeeper, which is a little fraudulent I finally started actually keeping bees this past summer. That's great Go bees Fantastic, I like these two Tim. Tim Freundlich. I'm the founder and head up impact assets and also sit on the president of Mission hub and and on the global hub board Used to be at Calvert Foundation for a long time 12 years and what's cool about me? What's neat about me? What's something fun last night juggle? I grew up in a hippie urban commune.  It was done to me. I Love it. I have to top that and we just found out we're co-hub members in San Francisco We didn't even know it hangs out in the bottom floor. I'm a floor one kind of cafe rat grown-up upstairs My name is Natalie Foster. I'm the executive director of peers Pee-wee RS. We launched five weeks ago to support the sharing and peer economy I've spent the last well over a decade in the intersection of politics and technology Started an organization called rebuild the dream with Van Jones To fix the US economy and quickly realized that the inspiration I was seeing was in people turning to one another to build their own economy. So just getting peers off the ground and I'd say my fun fact right now is that I'm a new mom of a 10 and a half month old who is not sleeping And I'm a Wayne Selby with the Calvert funds Calvert Foundation impact assets of a company in Beijing doing corporate social responsibilities in Tao What's cool about me is I'm working with my daughter in a chia company And if you see her tell her she has beautiful eyes because she has her father's eyes Bravo the All right, so We're we all have to think about this visual Representation of a mountaintop and what I'm gonna ask each of you to do and I'll pick you in kind of random order Is to tell me what concretely you're gonna be working on in the next three to five years to help us get to that Mountaintop this is in the context though of us not Being yet past a critical tipping point So we're gonna sort of draw out some systemic things that you all think need to happen around you in order to get past that tipping point and eventually to the mountaintop but just to keep us sort of in this sort of lively engaged Conversation, I would like each of you first to tell me okay picture this mountaintop Picture yourself going to that mountaintop and as you describe the work you're going to do for the next three to five years Describe to me what the path looks like I mean quite literally is it like a rocky stony path that you see as you're about to start talking Is it a meandering kind of are you tacking like a sailboat or you're just gonna like march straight up the mountain? So before you tell me what you're working on describe to me what came to mind when I said You got to get to that mountaintop in terms of what that path looks like so Let's see Catherine. I'm gonna make you be our first victim here It's a good image and I'm glad that the notion of multiple paths is embedded in it because I think we sometimes skip that part I would say my first few years being engaged in in this community broadly defined felt very uphill very much like Climbing grabbing by your fingernails kind of uphill and I'm not sure if I have switched Paths or just gained tremendous energy, but at this point I I see so many paths from here up that mountain and they all look just delightful and and doable And so I'm really excited to be at that point So it sounds like you're charging up the path, but you've got a lot more energy A lot more energy and a lot more options. I think which specifically are you gonna work on at honeybee for the next three years? What's what's the project the orientation that we all need to have towards what you're gonna be working on? Sure, so my work at honeybee I often describe as Translating between different communities I spent 20 years in a very traditional investment setting and so a lot of my time is Sort of carrying wisdom back and forth between these communities, but in this context of the map I think really my focus now on biomimicry investing is Almost a map maker not in the sense of charting But in being able to help people identify What is it that makes for a good path? What are the characteristics that really embody an approach or system that is sustainable and regenerative and optimized? And all the things that we're looking for do you mind just giving us a brief definition of biomimicry sure Many people have listened to panelists. I know but would you just do that by a mimicry? The the word has taken on a lot of buzz and unfortunately with that is coming some confusion It does not mean just imitating nature the essence of biomimicry is to pause before Designing any endeavor or product or adventure To pause and ask yourself what would nature do here in this context? How would nature perform the function that I'm trying to perform? so it's a really fundamental reorientation of the starting point of designing plans and I find that it points to a system that is Automatically all of those things we're looking for its long-term and duration. It's multi-dimensional. It's focused on optimizing instead of maximizing and it's also rooted in such deep and comfortable and Strong wisdom it is the most ancient wisdom we have as our at our disposal And so I find it's a really rich starting point. Thank you very much, but need I'm gonna have you go next So picture that that that image of you getting to the mountaintop this ultimate Visionary goal that I know you have what does the path literally look like when you sort of see it in your mind's eye You have somebody what cars There is a blue and white Volvo You want to know what's next Votes wagon that are about to be towed what kind of votes White Volkswagen that's about to be towed. Does that are any of you likely to have to run off stage? Okay? For those of you with either of these vehicles run out now And the backside of this says There'll be a sale on cosmetics in aisle four All right Back to where we were Vinnie. What is that? What literally? What does that not look like? You know, I actually tried to I close my eyes and tried to visualize what you were saying so the first reaction that came to me is They are far too many paths to go up and I'm not sure if the path that I'm following is the right path So maybe there's 20 paths going up and since I don't know which path that I the path that I'm following is the Right way, I have to have 20 minutes climbing up simultaneously So the first thing I thought about is replicating myself finding more of people to who are going to climb from every side To reach up, but we are all going to climb up in one direction. So no meandering nothing just goes straight Assuming these are different parts and one of us will succeed. Maybe it's possible. All of us will succeed So that's what was my first beautiful image. What specifically are you working on over the next Three years you can pick any part if you've got many things going I know, but so I'll quickly try to connect everything So this I'm working on incubation. I chair the board of will grow which is the incubator. We set up in 2000 Chair the board of IntelliCap and IntelliGrow IntelliCap is a consulting advisory capacity building young people This is actually the way I'm trying to replicate myself and having different leadership We have actually launched a venture debt company in India, which actually is a huge gap There is nothing called venture debt in India. So to provide Post venture capital debt then I run fun. So we have four funds. We've just launched our fifth fund Each one of them. We are doing different things first We have been we spend last 13 years focused on India Partly to create depth partly to create a demonstration of a model partly to create intensity So my whole idea was that if we can create 300 enterprises that are operating in so-called base of the pyramid in one way or the other There may be enough evidence that impact investing does create change because any neutral references We have been giving for decades. I don't think so that really works When the tire hits the road you need to be able to actually Substantially create an evidence that makes a change and so my most important thing is if you can create a fairly significant amount of So I've invested in 40 companies till now not enough that I thought will be But I think we have a reasonable understanding of what we have achieved in India and the second part is to actually move into Africa and Southeast Asia so we have a fund that we have launched for Southeast Asia We have taken some cult to Africa and hopefully along with it over next three years We will launch funds which are both Asia focused as well as Africa focused and again I understand Asia and Africa are continents The policies and approach that we use are actually very very contextual and specific So I think we are going to have very different kinds of challenges and what we are facing in there And that's why it's important to actually have very different kinds of people leading So me going there and doing it is not the brightest area So one of the things that you brought out which I think we all really appreciate is this need for more talent more More replication of of the right kind of leaders for what needs to get done in the next several years I Think I'm gonna let Tim go next.  I think I'm like spinning around. There's a little warm pools that I stop in like every yeah, I mean I Think I think it's not that linear for me. I'm not gonna speak But we're definitely going up the hill and and I think and I think there these moments of just settled Celebration Commonality, there's a warm pool. Yeah, where we come together, and I don't mean so cap once a year. Although that can work that way and what it all is I mean what I'm working on and is Trying to figure how to say it's like it's not middleware.  I think in most people's minds But that's actually the common thread across the stuff that I care about a lot and engage It's certainly what impact assets Aspires to be right in the innovation and actually I'm gonna do that a little bit after this I'm not going to dwell on that in the final right on that to really crack the code on how to Rewire sort of this this platforms and infrastructures that across across the spectrum I mean, I think of so cap like this and the ease of the flow of capital the hub is totally Action thrilling action infrastructure going ubiquitous like everywhere, you know in every city within a few years Hundreds of thousands of members and we're already there. I mean that's where we're going. We're gonna get there Right, it's not gonna be pretty right, you know It's gonna be like me secure this and fail forward and all that kind of stuff but what it all has in common is is Like this does not have to be clinical right and we really do have to Invest together in plumbing right across a whole spectrum of modalities of consumption investment We're philanthropy, whatever, you know, right up on that stuff yep vocation and celebration and sharing of best practice and Intelligence and that's that's that's what I'm gonna be doing for probably the next 20 years Tim and I worked very closely together and one of the things we I love about Tim And I hope he loves about me is that we often use different images, but we're always talking about sort of the same thing and I Really like the the picture of stopping at the like at the pool, you know and like taking your clothes off and jumping in for a while I didn't say anything about taking Wayne how about you? What's the visual that comes to mind to you about this path? pool Well one visual when I closed my mind about the mountaintop is just a few months ago In fact, I was in the Tibetan plateau in Ching Hai province In fact, I don't know how many of you saw the solar cooker that was here, but Calvert. We led an investment into that which is primarily for the Tibetans gathering dung and others on the plateau, but what I'm talking about there is really our work in China and I feel like 1.6 billion people they're arriving on the planet consume all these and that those of us who have been a part of this Community we need to make some efforts to reach and extend some things We've learned create conversations because I can tell you if the Chinese don't get it doesn't matter what you guys do I That's that that's how the numbers go on the planet And I feel that to the extent you take opportunities to and can share in International conferences and Asia and so on and I was there with Kevin in Singapore just a month or two ago On the same mission and bringing so cap to Singapore and these kinds of values, so I would say that Secondly, I also want to say in terms of a vision is the democratization of this movement a lot of us think that impact investing and social capital is about helping these poor people helping this environment But I also feel there's a spiritual component which is about allowing people to participate in building this world about expressing themselves through their money and This doesn't have to be about high net worth offices or foundations It can also be about school teachers and others who have a thousand two thousand five thousand dollars They want to put in and we've been doing this through Calvary Foundation We have the billies to really expand that create more partnerships demand is strong In fact just a few hours ago. I was with a woman from AARP in fact We have a URL impact IRA meaning well, what about your IRA money? I mean we have impact assets donor-advised fund But the amount of money and IRAs Are enormous and there could be ways that we could facilitate people tapping that kind of money To really provide another source for those of you who are the mavens about how best to ploy it and make the Sustainability models and so on so we're really about in terms of our value proposition working on how do we tap the The you know the middle America to make this great this greatness part of American culture and to bring the Excitement and the sharing and the conversations bringing the people's rooms and say see you can be part of that You can be part of that there so that's What we're working on and I'll do one last sure only because I was on a panel last year and We've got this idea. Well, maybe we ought to get the Chinese to fund a bunch of stuff for this EB-5 visas where if you create 10 jobs Spend a million dollars to get a green card. Well, actually a bunch of people afterwards that when you ought to really work on that So I've been in the office. I've been speaking to Congressman Goodlap who was chairman of the immigration committee and chairman of the Judiciary who runs immigration. It's a mess immigration, but the point is you have millions of People around the world who would love to get a green card That's billions and billions and billions of dollars that could go into our kind of work creating jobs And so we've been exploring that and creating some conversations and going to a Conference at one conference He actually called me up and asked me to speak about four or five minutes on this proposal Which it's stuck with all the other immigration issues But the point is that there are ways and policy and others that we can support as Tim said the Infrastructure and the ways that we can pull certain levers so that those of you who are you know putting these Opportunities together and really on the front line know that you know some of the rest of us are also trying to take care of the Plumbing to best support you going forward and that's our commitment. That's great Bravo You have resaving you for last so What's it?  Well, I think all over the globe, but there's people who are sharing their homes their cars their assets They're collaborating in new ways. They're lending in new ways They aren't you know waiting on banks to offer them alone. They're they're funding the sorts of projects. They want to see and that that's a movement and It's it's with emerging business models that are operating at a scale We've really never seen before you even have folks who are sharing their home for the first time on something like Airbnb And then they're discovering time banks or a whole new sort of way of thinking about the economy So my visual is a big flashlight. Oh, yeah, we're shining on the mountain. We're like, wow This is actually already happening in ways. We can't quantify right for existing 3.5 billion dollars will move through the sharing economy this year now. That's different than in the old way It's not going to a centralized corporation It's it's going through a platform to the pockets of the people who are on the platform who are the entrepreneurs sharing their homes cars But it's also much bigger than that right because that's just what we can quantify with money And this is a very beginning of an industry where there's very little research. It's actually been done So I'm thinking it's a flashlight showing more activity than we have could possibly just don't shine the flashlight on the pool where Is there a specific Initiative or project that you're work. I know you're working on a lot related to what you just described But it's something you'd like to highlight that you're gonna be working on for the next three years that Say a little more to us about yeah Well, our mission is really three-fold at peers and that's to grow the sharing economy So how do we bring people together who are participating at various points and have them collect like Encourage their collaboration on a local level in a way that grows, you know, this economy would broadly but two is mainstream it For as inevitable as these models may seem my mom in Kansas still thinks it's weird that I would rent out Right my home or share my home or that I would hop in a car with a stranger. I just hailed off my mobile phone So there's there's a really important storytelling aspect there and then the third is to protect it so All over in cities across the world. We're figuring out. How do we? Regulate these sorts of new activities and that's gonna play out, you know in cities across the world And we want to help inject people's voices the people who use these new new ways of operating into the conversation about how we How we regulate it so I heard some I heard some very interesting Points here and just to throw out some call out the words that sort of signal what we've been talking about democratization replication replication and leadership Infrastructure Dynamics If any of you want to throw a few words at us now is the time to do it But you got to do it in one word, but if you want to shout them out and you heard them shout them out now anybody got some Say it again thrilling Storytelling collaboration Replicate leverage leverage Leverage then replicate Anymore a couple more say it again or somebody say it to me Okay All right, so prudent woman rule there we go Okay, so wise panel the Remember that the discussion at the beginning of socap was about the fact that we're not yet at a tipping point We may not all entirely agree about that Framing or that hypothesis but bear with me at least for today's conversation We need to get to a major tipping point obviously a lot of a lot of these Milestones are going to be what gets us there more democratization more replication more infrastructure More thrilling infrastructure Etc. Etc. So In that context, I'm going to ask you to tell me What's systemic change or a specific milestone that you'll cross yourself Either one a systemic change that you think we all need to pay attention to or a milestone that you'll cross Where you'll know you've gotten Significantly closer to the tipping point. I I can take either one to sort of continue to round out this conversation And just give me like the high sign if you want to take a stab at answering this. I'm not going to call on you If you get your little let me know that you're go ahead Vinit So personal milestone to either have 300 investments or a billion dollar that has been channeled into the space That's basically my personal milestone on the systemic side. I think change in attitude For those who want to participate in this space to understand that It's actually as much as your learning as much as you want to give and I think that System exchange might actually we make that billion dollar possible for me as well So possibly a systemic change is more important than the billion dollar that I think as a milestone for myself We sometimes throw these well, we've been throwing these monthly Events in Washington around different issues policy-wise and so on or our next one is on crowdfunding And the reason I talk about crowdfunding is a tipping point is because you know Sometimes life is all about dealing with fear the fear of what will happen if this and then so we do the regulation on and In particularly sharing economy what you mean like people aren't as evil as a politician say that we need to keep them in place And that can actually come to your homes and it all works. I mean I feel that this This this ability for people to come together over the internet and this kind of crowdfunding could be a tipping point where people go You know the world isn't that unfriendly. I don't have you know, there are possibilities here I can participate in ways. So I'm kind of looking forward to that. Yeah manifestation Which you've been yeah Yeah, I think that's right. I mean I think the tipping point comes when it's you know, it's a millennial sensibility that we could live In co-housing and we could not own an automobile But share access to an automobile and we could kind of crowdfund together the kinds of neighborhoods that we want to see And I think the tipping point comes when that's you know much more widely adopted I live in a little town called Sausalito and there's a place called Galilee Harbor Do any of you know Galilee Harbor by any chance? Okay, so you if you know Galilee Harbor You know that it is the archetype of a very Long-standing sharing community sharing economy. So if for example, you have extra Beats I can just walk down and put them on a table At Galilee Harbor and somebody will put the beats for somebody who needs them more than I do So fortunately for me I get to walk right by that every day. It's pretty nice for me the I Would just add I mean getting to this question of fear one really powerful way for that transition to happen is When you go from the stage Which is endemic in any early movement of saying not that and in sort of a rejection combative stage to saying But this and and to be able to show something that is so Obviously better in every way it makes it so easy then for people to embrace it with with courage and excitement And and much less of that fear and I I see that we're right That's a tip point to yeah fear came up a lot in the in the in the first plenary the one that sort of was your Bookend plenary and so it's really interesting to hear it come back in terms of something We need to address to get to the tipping point. Are you afraid of your bees? No, no, I just I mean it came to mind as an immediate question Well, I mean if you're allergic you could die, so let's not be stupid But but if you're not allergic and you have a little bit of patience and curiosity They're mesmerizing. Yeah Tim Like angel investing That's a great analogy I just said two things on it one I mean one and just to pick up that thread I mean and one of the things I love about about impact hub and this idea of these physical Aligned communities that I I think that this this tipping point trust like it's okay flashlight thing I think one of the things we we've kind of lost especially major urban areas in the United States Which I'll speak for my own it's first person experiences You know, we don't have that persistent Physical trust-based aligned I find community thing going on as much anymore right as maybe you know 50 years ago Right thing and I think that it speeds. It's like this impersonal thing, you know, even if you're a millennial, which I'm not The It's a lot easier to pick up and reinforce when there is it's part of the like where you are, right? Presenting presence. I think they go together. I think when we we can rediscover and bolster this amazing Renaissance sort of of the the online and the Transactions and the stranger that's not so strange with with them a recommitment to physical community And the only other thing I was gonna say is I mean in terms of venture. I'm really committed to Whether it's with impact assets or good cap or or just in general that and we talked about some earlier panel this morning I think we really have to deeply examine What it means to create stakeholder communities around entrepreneurs with investors and employees and Customers and clients and all of that with no baloney. I mean, it's like because we're in here and trying to use conventional toolkits with What? That have time horizons that have nothing to do right with the kind of mountaintop Pads that we're walking along unless you're in some sort of social media tech startup something I mean, we need to start we need to start figuring out new Perpetual leave it to your grandchildren time horizons in decades sorts of structures for risk capital and also I Mean we just there's not enough experimentation. So I'm really committed over the next three five years and I know we are in helping people to prototype and and find beautiful little Like let's fail and succeed forward quickly and find those pools before not trying to like create some whole the whole market system And it'll be this massive Transactional everybody will you know create a secondary one? I mean that'll happen, but that's gonna take a While not to take anything away from anybody's working on that, but there's such an important point and and you know every single one of us who's been at this for a little or a long while knows that We once we figure out those structures that we fix once we experiment with and we also have to share our Experimentation so that people understand exactly what we tried and whether it worked and whether it didn't and that sharing part of it Going back to the sharing economy. We also have to be the sharing the sharing knowledge, you know, it's very important And So that's another element that I think about all the time I'm gonna share a couple of personal experiences that either you told me or that I had myself at Socap and then where we're Gonna go before we get to Q&A is I'm gonna ask you if there's something that you experienced here and Wayne since I know you were traveling something that you experienced in this basically the last couple of weeks that Actually radically shifted the way you're thinking about what you're gonna work on for the next three to five years So you've been here you've been experiencing a lot of of the knowledge sharing and discussions here a couple that that really hit me One was and Lindsay's sitting right here, and I heard this through Liz Lindsay But this idea that we need to learn how to bring new sectors in Lindsay's been responsible for our oceans Content and track here and you know, it's a place where we're still looking for more entrepreneurship But we're also really trying to figure out how to bring that sector into this This movement and so learning how to bring new sectors in is something that I Observed and thought about and experienced a lot this week And the other one which is was told to me by another one of our content Leaders for the week was a description of a panel which some of you might have been in it was a relatively small discussion But it sounds like it was very animated There were 25 or 30 people in the room and the panel were a group of Doctors and the and in starting off the conversation with the room the doctors who of course as doctors are used to presenting at medical conferences about medical issues Did what people usually do if you're good at panelists with panels which is you say, you know Who's in the room with me? How many doctors are here with us and only one? Raised his or her hand and the doctors all looked at one another and then apparently what happened next I'm probably describing this a little loosely because it's second hand to me Then then the person moderating the panel said okay So how many health care providers are there in the room and nobody raised their hand So now the doctors on stage are getting a little confused and mystified And so then finally the one who was moderating said who is in this room? And he basically went around and asked every single person to tell him who they were and the fantastic thing about that story was that of course They were investors community development people Entrepreneurs, you know, there were people that that that the medical profession never talks to and That was a really kind of a significant story as told to me. So for you guys From something that's happened to you from Monday if you'd been sitting here Monday with me It might have been answering my questions one way now. It's Friday Is as anything that you've experienced during so cap given you a big like you know clip to the jaw or Changed radically or even a little bit the way you're thinking about the next three to five years start with you Sure. Well, I would kind of dovetail with your story. I will admit that one of my big Fears as this community started coming together was that it would be another kind of isolated club you know doing cool things kind of within itself and To my greatest mentors Hazel Henderson and Susan Davis always say, you know, the best way to grow movement just throw a better party and Tuesday I was here and I was meeting with a group of folks focused on investing in women So group very near and dear to my heart and in one door walks three of my friends from the biomimicry community So we've got like the science and entrepreneurs kind of combined in that group and then in another door walk Two of my friends from really big giant old-school kind of investment firms And so we've got that whole like big corporate finance kind of side covered and then finally in and this is a multi Doored room, I guess in the last And it really was in the last door come some friends from a conscious investing very spirit centric a community that I'm part of And we were all there in the same room, and I thought What's to go next Fini You go last Thank you, I can go next Tuesday morning nest hell the breakfast and they are releasing the findings of a report of what the Collaborative economy the pure economy sharing economy looks like in the developing world For the bottom of the pyramid right so for the four billion people making less than five dollars a day and the needs are very different It's it's very strong communities looking for you know, how do how do how do we get different sorts of goods and different sort of you know Collaborations are coming out and it was very inspiring to think about you know globally Where this is going to start ups? I thought were interesting one is a group of entrepreneurs who are working with favelas in Brazil to put them on Airbnb as Families you know clean out a room and bring in someone who wants to have a very different sort of experience staying in Brazil Or ride dado in Brazil that's helping people Do ride sharing on not smartphones on dumb phones or whatever they're called Which I think is also very inspiring and interesting So I think that that is exactly the kind of thing peers will tell the story of great Just that there's thinking there is such a thing as going to too many cocktail parties Okay, I learned my lesson on Tuesday night and I Think I would I would just sort of cap on it this this this year here Solidified something that I think has been bubbling under the surface for me and also in the conversation around Around two things one is this inclusive sort of multi-dimensional diversity is value And it certainly is in nature, right? and You know when you've got like I'm sitting with Herman Miller and this great influx of old friends from the social Social investment financial advisor market who I don't think have been here mostly Here and then you've got you know, you've got the Packard with oceans and these major foundations and Dominion packs world and I Joe Keith walking around the CEO packs world from one of my favorite ending And you got Steve falsely we've worked with Calvert and all bunch of Calvert people were here, too It's like in addition to everything that it's always been which are just you know Amazing top-shelf entrepreneurs and impact investors and more and more wealth People of wealth all of that coming together. I think that it gets to this look at this is not a sector This is a point of view, right? This is a values-based lens that you apply to everything right so to be kind of in segments and Categories and pillars and silos as Jed Emerson, you know it says It's really counterproductive and yet we have to do we have to limit scope Otherwise it gets so mind-blowing that you can't get anything accomplished, and I'm afraid this is a festival this is a celebration and I think people who come for this sort of vertical like intensity are probably a little bit perplexed But you know, it's a lot of pollution and I think but I think applying that to it's just so you don't get in these Little boxes like okay I don't I'm not noticing what I'm doing with my consumption or my investing But I care about what I do with my work or my philanthropy I mean no, it's all this is it and the millennials get it which I'm so psyched about so I'm not worried You know 20 years plus. I'm just sort of wondering how it goes. Yeah, how the path goes So that and now that was that was the other thing And I think I really caught a few times in a few panels to a theme and I'll just add to that the risk of going on too long is is I Feel like there's a new piece of tech coming up Which is this kind of and we played around this the hub a little bit of people have alluded to anecdotes around this Finding ways to communally hack ourselves right In a really not like intentional weird like let's get pizza and pajamas for a weekend thing Although we you can do that too, you know where you get a bunch of people But will you bring diverse points of view and skills and resources together around problems? Whether it be people or planet or fun structure or consumers I think we're gonna get a lot better and I'm starting to feel like that's something that's I'm seeing more Realizable, you know I will hear and I hear but in the communities here. That's it. I think that's a really great sort of design Tool kit thing and then putting stuff on the track, you know incubating accelerating bringing it back And we did this that great thing with creative currency with AmEx in the city of San Francisco for like six months Where we tried to you know do do some of that stuff last year Never mind. I don't know. I can see I just like that's that's five minutes But I know but everyone's you know so appreciates the The idea that we're actually getting to the place where we can have this diversity and we can hack ourselves But but not just randomly not in hackathon style But really take these problems on and use this amazing Diversity of community to be able to solve them in place. I mean that's a fantastic image Wayne, I know you weren't here all week, but I know you've been doing interesting things all week Did any did something happen during the course of the last several days that gave you a big aha No This morning I had to be at a board meeting in Nebraska, so but the 20 27 28 years ago Self as other fellow we started this social venture network and the very first meeting Yeah, we didn't know what I was gonna and my assistant at times said Why how come how come these people all have bright eyes and wasn't because we were stone or at least most of us weren't but it was kind of this sense of like this energy extending out and You knew you're like at the right time and the right place in the universe asking the right questions and here We have people who are gatekeepers for the dreams of our society both in terms of the resources in terms of the money the possibilities the commitment, I mean It just makes you have goosebumps about what's going on here and this whole thing about throwing a better party But also kind of making it Not because we were ever cool kids But becomes a cool kids club which starts this reverberation through our society because of the quality of the interaction You can just feel it here, and I wasn't here for days, but I was you can just feel like Why are people shining a light inside right? Thank you neat Hey, I asked to be the last I was trying to think pretty hard What is it I gained partly because I didn't realize till you ask that question sir, so So I was born brought up lived in India all my life the first time I left India to fly out was to Singapore in 2001 I came to this country first time in 2005. It was my first year to visit Europe as well So so not a guy who's was extensively traveled post 2005 of course. I've traveled every month. So it's a different game My context of travel always out of India was to get something back So I'll always go largely for begging for money because I wanted to I was a investor So I'm a professional beggar that way So every time I sit in a flight. I'll have actually a clear idea of what I'll bring back and This was one of those rare flights coming here, which I was not sure what I'm going to seek for and Last four days it was quite uncomfortable because I do not know. What am I seeking? What am I asking? So what has happened in the last three four days is I realized there is a lot of people on the other side also seeking and that I possibly had an opportunity to give back as well wherever I am and So what has changed and it's pretty dramatic change. So that's why I took so much time to think through is the Equilibrium of give and take is basically what I discovered during the last four days partly because I had no agenda coming here It started with my discussion with Kevin about Should we rise above ourselves to collaborate rather than compete? and then over a period of time It seems like The professional begging that I used to do there is enough on both sides of the border Somebody is seeking material somebody is seeking something other part of your soul So it's not one-way traffic and that there is far more that you can give than what you think you're digging away I think I'm glad we had you go last that was thank you very much So we have I want to I'm gonna have you I'm gonna have you all Have you all do one more thing for me and then I want to make sure we get some questions from the audience So I'm gonna choose two words democratization and replication just bear with me and I want each of you in the shortest possible sentence To tell me what must happen in terms of either democratization or replication For us to get closer to that tipping point Particularly if you can attach it to the next three to five year time frame I know that we're all thinking out in 20 and 30 year and 50 year and 100 year cycles But just that's the frame that I'm offering you and I Thank you for letting me be a little bit provocative, but I know you can all Definitely handle this so either with the word democratization or the word replication Pick the word for me and then tell me what must happen in order to get closer to the tipping point Particularly using the three to five year time frame, and when you're ready, let me know I'll go. Okay, which word I can go for both, but okay, what democratization democratization, okay? So I think democratization of the right to own wealth I think we have a pretty serious challenge of concentrated wealth across the world both in developing developed economies And I personally have worked in that because we have invested in companies that hold in 10,000 people 20,000 people actually hold shares Creating ownership is possibly one of the strongest way or democratizing the whole idea of wealth Is possibly one of the best ways of redistributing the centers of power as well? The second part is replication and I think replication is replication of the goodness of the heart Possibly so there are few good people If we can replicate that and make six billion good people again our problems will get solved far more easily We won't need to do so cap off and culture Beautiful Thank you, do not follow Vinny's example pick one word not to And let me know which one you're picking I'll do quick on demonstration, okay, I mean I don't know what I'm thinking about no replication sorry replication And the word that that I want to pair with it is is distributed And I mean that in a in a in a power structure way. I mean it in a in a Cultural translation indigenous translation. I think that we can create radical You know scaled change Across the world, but we have to be willing to bottom up it with rules in the home network We follow this this principle the subsurface subsidiary is not a word. I really like subsidiaryism or something. I understand it But you know this really letting the replication the power the agency the stakeholder system be Distributed through it so that it cannot be bottlenecked or perverted right? beautiful My word would be accessibility And the reason I say that is that's not one of the words you have to pick replication or democratization, but it's okay The real question is about accessibility. Let me say And what I mean by that is the communication of what we are doing here, and who doesn't want to be part of this I mean if properly communicated, I mean you that's why I feel like there is this tipping point that we're getting close to If we can make it accessible To our our brothers and sisters great one of the things when I think about the democratization of the distribution of what I think is really exciting about the sharing economy Is the fact there's a whole new class of entrepreneurs some are saying micro entrepreneurs But there's a way in which you can make a living or save money In entirely new ways. I think of a woman who was like a big hiker in San Francisco Name Sarah and now makes her living leading tours through San Francisco like urban hikes She's a peer tour guide and there's peer travel happening all over, you know the globe Just one example of sort of an industry that is being inverted and democratized democratized Yes Replication because nature does not scale nature replicates and it always integrates Development and growth together. You never have one without the other and one really is a geeky answer But it's really vital. I think one important element in that all functioning is to have effective feedback groups And there are three pieces to that one is that the appropriate feedback has to be sent out So be careful right what you're measuring what you're asking for what you're monitoring, but then the other two pieces I'm not sure where that focused on yet as a community There has to be a receptor for that feedback that is attuned to it and able to take it in and an effective and Appropriate way so you can do all the fancy metrics supports you want if they are not heard and Incorporated it doesn't do any good and then the third piece is that that receptor has to trigger not just response But appropriate response and that is how when you replicate you get better and better and better as opposed to just same same Same and so I'm really that's beautiful excited to see that take root so we have Time for a couple of questions from the audience and I think Bjorn's ready to like run that run out with microphones Is that right and we literally have time for perhaps two or three questions if you have them we'd love to take them There's one and the whiteboard. I won't forget if we can also well at the end of this We're going to put this map up, but I think that's also up to Bjorn, so he has to multitask here Please go ahead with your question. Great. Good morning everybody. So my question is Coming off of the question that was asked in the early segment on Engaging 20-somethings and under and Wayne's point about accessibility What is the movement doing? What is the social impact movement doing to connect with what's happening in higher education? Which seems to me a really vibrant place for the emergence of the new leadership of this movement the probably 25 people in the room who want to answer that question and who on stage wants to answer it higher education Where is the this movement? I had made an appeal to actually introduce the course on greed management That might actually be a very good idea for the society In higher education. It's a great example every every undergrad University of That's worth it saw in the next 10 years will have a social innovation entrepreneurship Center program etc in the same way that every decent MBA program has been greened in the last 10 and It's not a prediction and I'm looking forward to them starting to be more competitive with one another I mean really tasking themselves to get higher and higher quality so that you know We need as they proliferate or they replicate we need to see more sense of a real a real sense of the quality of that of those programs I Would just add I mean the next iteration beyond that. I think we're already starting to see where Every entrepreneurship just is a social entrepreneurship. You're just starting to get to the point where you don't need Regular entrepreneur and a social entrepreneur. They're starting to mesh in a way that is really encouraging to me And one more question One or two anybody got this? Well, we're waiting on I'll just answer and say hunter lovens this morning talked about Teaching a course last night out of her Airbnb with a co-director who was teaching out of the hub And they were doing it was to their massive Their MOOC right their massive online course and so it's just a reminder and like we're in such an era where education democratized Yes, right here. Yeah, the financial domain is so dominant and it's very much it based on a Mechanistic kind of metaphor and imagery and whatnot. Could you speak to how you may begin to make the transition to or nature-based nature? Responsive imagery and structures and whatnot in the financial domain Yeah, so the thing that has been most I'm assuming that So you touched on exactly it I when I started an investing I mean, I'm not 300 years old it was 20 years ago Investing was still a very Connected integrated multi disciplinary liberal arts relationship oriented mutual benefit kind of endeavor And I think that core is actually still there I think that core is intact what has completely overshadowed that core and in some cases overtaken it is all the stuff We've added around it all the processes and procedures and tools and mechanics and you know ever ever more sophisticated products, but they're really just processing that same core and so what most of my work is focused on is trying to Re-center on that core and what gives me the most encouragement is that when I think of how I was taught to invest in one of the most conservative, you know old-school mainstream Organizations that exist it is almost completely aligned with everything that this community is everything that we're talking about good investing is good Investing it's that it's that mechanized engineered set of elements I think that have taken us far away from that and these natural principles. I think help bring us back Any of you want to add anything to that one here? We got a couple more questions We're gonna take one more and then we're gonna show our map and then we're going to be out of time And I don't know if there's a mic near you I Don't want you to have to have a dance-off to decide who answers the question. Do you mind if I give it to this gentleman? Okay, thank you Really like of the panel is you know like we need talking about giving from the heart being kind you know Tim talking about the impact assets Kathleen talking So the wonderful panel and the way I'm talking about spiritual component I wasn't thinking about a question about how do you do? Distributed problem-solving in this word and what could be that major impact the distributed problem-solving Collectively can make such an impact which could be remembered for lives to come Okay, so distributed problem-solving so this is sort of goes back to him to where you were a few minutes ago and Each of you has actually alluded to this How you take a problem and solve it But also use a model that allows it to be distributed so it's not helped closely Anybody want to take that one on one of the visions? We've had in this democratization kind of thing is to call for salons and communities of Local community salons to look at how You can use some monies and in the community to make you know I like put solar panels on the schools or what else you can do and then for those communities To share with others things they've done and other problems they've come I mean it's like I'd like to see the next generation of Kiwanis Club go in this kind of area to have these kinds of Conversations about building our our world that would be and I'm sorry to say that we're out of time I wanted to thank Lily who's our graphic artist over here, and I think at the end of this I think at the end of this we'll have a map and Last but not least we want to thank you, so we'll give you a round of applause audience The hearty audience here at the end and thank you all very much. So thank you


There's another victor third victor there we go spurs. Let's take three victors to in the same box on the rookie There's a Hawkins and Domas a bonus and there he is silver on the victor Boom there we go spurs three victor base and a silver Who's got the spurs in this one that would make this one. It's gonna be Where are they at? Come on. That's gonna be Tom s Tom s my man. We'll get that a Mac for you


Live from New York, it's the Cube. Cover Big Data NYC 2015. Brought to you by Hortonworks, IBM, EMC, and Pivotal. Now your host, Dave Vellante and George Gilbert. Welcome back to New York City everybody. This is the Cube, we're here. This is day three coverage of Big Data NYC which we run concurrently to Strata. Scott Nau is here, he's the CTO of Hortonworks. We got a segment, Scott, on just Hortonworks, came on yesterday with your colleague, Ron Bodkin, from Terra Data and Think Big Analytics, so it's really great to have you back. Thanks for coming on. Thanks very much. So we just had Mervon, and we're asking him, what's the big theme over there at Javits? And he said, well, he boiled it down to two things, simplicity and the store. And a lot of people threw in several others over the course of the interview, talking about data in motion, being able to ingest data, all kinds of really interesting innovations going on. What's your take on the big themes that you're hearing this year from customers and the ecosystem generally? I think the big thing is, and we talked last time we were together in the summer, is moving from really cool tech to, what am I doing with it? How am I changing my business? How am I creating value from the technology? And as you start to see the early adopters get more mature and the second wave of adopters come in, it's natural to expect a drive for more simplification, right? So simplification covers a lot of aspects. It could be anywhere from, I don't want a command line, I actually want a GUI so that normal human beings can use it. It could be, how do I integrate the projects? How do I make deployment easier? How do I make governance and security easier? Those are all kind of the second order questions that we're starting to really hear a lot of energy around. Yeah, and so on the simplicity piece, the other thing Merb was saying that I found interesting was that there's so many new projects going on and you're closer to it than I am, but the skills that you learned a year or two ago are becoming outdated instantaneously. And that's a challenge for organizations. How do you see the ecosystem dealing with that challenge? Is it a matter of just more training, more resources? Absolutely, there certainly is a great network of information flowing out there, being in an open world. It's easier to obtain the skills that you don't have to sign up for training and pay money. You can go online and learn things. So there's that aspect of the environment that we live in, but certainly what we're trying to do with Hortonworks is really innovate around the core rather than create a whole bunch of new separate different projects that you have to understand. Trying to make it a little bit more consumable, but at the same time leverage that open community for innovation and it's a balancing act. Well, so follow up on that and then Georgia, I want you to jump in here, but so you, the big distro vendors, you know, the big three, two of sort of announced database projects this year, kind of end running HDFS, you guys have a different strategy, sort of evolve HDFS. I wonder if you could sort of confirm what I just said, and I may have got it a little bit off, but then I wonder if you could talk about the Hortonworks approach. Yeah, so again, our approach is really to innovate at the core and make the core better. And I think that's founded on, you know, a couple of the key constructs of our belief system in terms of running a business and the business model. The first is that you really can't beat the open community, right? And so we've seen huge innovation. This is where the whole Hadoop ecosystem really started is a community that's very open, leveraging innovation. And you know, from my history, having worked in a proprietary software company for a long time, one of the biggest differences that I see is, you know, developers in the open world actually gain credibility by sharing ideas versus in a proprietary development model, right? Having ideas in your head is your job value, so you sometimes keep more of it to yourself. So that openness and the community open is really appealing because people gain credibility by sharing ideas, sharing ideas, you get more eyeballs on the problem. You cannot out-innovate the open community model. So I think that's one of the core and foundational ideas we have. And then obviously getting into how do we deliver and make the technology consumable, it's really at this point, as I mentioned, and we talked, you know, at the very beginning, it's about simplicity. So do I really want another project or another six projects, or do I just want to make it work in the core? And so to the extent that some of the core underlying technology can be extended and will work, and we can leverage the open community, that's obviously a first strategy. If there's some net new piece of work that needs to get done, as an example, data governance is one of those second order things that becomes very interesting. And so we went and we worked with the community and some of our customers and we built Apache Atlas as an open community project to go solve governance because there really weren't assets in this stack before that covered that aspect. So I think sticking to the core, making the core work better and leveraging the open community is more the strategy than creating 16 new projects to solve a very thin slice of functionality. Just as a follow-up to that, Scott, one of the things that Databricks did to simplify access to sort of all the Spark APIs was the notebook capability. So it's like one development environment. If I date myself, it's maybe like visual basic making it easier to work with or build Windows apps. But there's a Zeppelin project that's for Hadoop. Can a notebook simplify a bunch of separate projects so that a developer has that same experience or similar experience to working with Spark? And I think that you fit on another aspect of the simplification, which is really moving from command line to UI. And so that is an area where we, through Umbari and Umbari views in the management infrastructure space have been starting to build that out. And yeah, I think there's a lot of promise behind projects like Apache Zeppelin where again, you can have an open community development kind of environment, but actually take it up a level to the user experience. One of the things that, again, having yesterday in the interview we talked about having seen this movie before, I think, in one of the, getting to mass adoption means that you have to take away some of the difficulty and make it a little bit more easy to consume. And so I think some of these UI projects are extremely important because we can get more eyeballs, we can get more folks, it's very easy to come on board and take advantage of the technology. There's a trade-off. The fact that you have so many projects gives huge choice. You can do the mix and match to build, say, an analytic pipeline in a way that would be much more difficult with monolithic DBMS. But at the same time, if you've got all these projects evolving independently, putting a GUI over them can be a challenge as opposed to putting them on one sort of unified development cycle. It can be a challenge. I think one of the things that you'll see is with rapid adoption and deployment is as winners emerge in the GUI and certainly Ambari and Ambari Views is emerging as a winner in that space. I think Zeppelin obviously has that opportunity as well. I think a lot of the project owners will say, gee, it's to my advantage to fit into that framework. So how do I code to that API? How do I make it more compatible? So you actually turn it around and say, the leverage is how do I get more users taking advantage of the technology and it becomes a pull more than a push. Okay. So if you heard what I said last night in the panel, what I talked about, I was reading SiliconANGLE the other day and they were quoting me from theCUBE and we were closing and I said this space is crowded, overfunded, profitless but has a lot of potential. And we talked about that on the panel. And I don't state things that are factually incorrect but it has implications. And you can turn those all into positives. It's good that there's a lot of funding. It's good that it's crowded. There's innovation. My question, Scott, is there's a lot of discussion in the community about, geez, there's not a lot of IP because it's all open source. What happens to all these companies who have all this funding? Hortonworks not concerned about that. You have a different business model. I wonder if you could sort of comment on that. Just the lack of hardcore IP that is right, let's say, for instance, for an acquisition and how that relates to what you guys are doing. Yeah, I mean, I think the open source phenomenon as it relates to this space is certainly very much driven by the rapid pace, the rapid change, frankly, the rapid growth of volume of data and sensors and standards and all of those kinds of things. So it's kind of like chicken egg. Did open source come first or did the requirements come first? I think they really fit hand in glove. And so you're right, in an open world, the environment is completely different. Your influence is not what's between your ears. Your influence is how you package it, deploy it, make it supportable for customers and go find that business value rapidly and support your customers. And that's obviously the business model that we at Hortonworks have built around. And I think that it's a dramatic shift where the value is not in owning the software anymore. The value is in delivering, deploying, packaging and supporting. Yeah, so I mean, actually there is IP there, you just don't charge for it. That's correct. Or yeah, you monetize it differently. Yeah, we'll monetize it through. Well, it's interesting, our data suggests that the number of people actually paying for things like Hadoop, for Hadoop specifically is way, way up this year relative to last year. I think two thirds are actually paying, last year was around 25%. So we're seeing a huge, huge spike even though there's a lot of talk about adoption, maybe being slow and so forth. The number of organizations that are getting more serious is clearly on the rise. And you can see that, I'm sure, across the street. So I wonder if you could comment. I think like anything, you move from science project to dabbling to trying out an application to moving into production. And when you start to move in that application into production, that's really where paying for the Hadoop infrastructure becomes important and interesting, making sure that it's supportable. As those production applications start to drive business value as they drive business process, having the ability to do change management, change control, understand that it's been tested, understand that it's secure, that you can do data governance around it. Those things become more interesting and I think that's where you get the on ramp too. Now, yeah, I need to, I want to go with a trusted provider and get support. Following up on that thought process, I mean it makes, as you were saying, it makes perfect sense that as you go into production you need a support relationship. But is there an opportunity for the distro vendors to be even more proactive, not the break fix model, perhaps to peer into the deployment, a customer's deployment and look how it's operating and proactively help them do better? Yeah, and actually that's kind of the next thing that I was going to get to, so it's perfect, is I think we talk about what's the value and how do we go create value in this market. In an open source world, you have a support case, the support case comes in, there's a bug or there's a function that's missing that I really want. Working with a vendor that's got lots of committers and has got a lot of the folks who can go impact the community and get those things in, not just a bug fix but actually a design implementation change to really make the product better. I think that's really a differentiator in how you choose a distribution vendor, how you choose who you go support and that's certainly a big part of the value add that we provide in terms of being able to get that and drive back into the community, not only changes, bug fixes, stability improvements, but gee, we have a cluster of customers that really want to do this. Let's get that added to our feature functionality. Okay, let's talk about ODP a little bit. We had a panel last night, ODPI, sorry. What's the I stand for? I'm still confused on that. It stands for whatever you want it to stand for. I ODP even. Okay, so we talked about a lot of things and it was really the purpose of the panel was to give us ODP's vision of the enterprise and we I think openly discussed many, many things. So I wanted to, so George, the components of, oh, help me here, ODP, Avari, HDFS, MapReduce, what's the fourth, Yarn, thank you. So can we talk about, in the context of the discussion that we were just having, sort of how you're evolving each of those. A lot of talk about, oh, MapReduce, we're replacing MapReduce with X. And obviously, HDFS, you just mentioned that you guys are evolving that, Yarn was innovation that you guys came up, community came up with a couple of years ago. So could you talk about those components and their roadmap? Well, I mean, first off with the whole ODPI thing, I think is a really significant and important thing in the industry and actually have been a supporter of the notion for some time. And that notion is in this world where there's innovation coming all the time, new projects, keeping track of it. Having a core set of services and defining that as kind of a common kernel, very much like in the Linux industry, there's a common kernel, there are multiple distribution vendors, there are other packages you can install, but there's a common kernel. That means that application developers can now code to the lowest common denominator and at least understand that their applications and the certification efforts are a little bit more streamlined and simplified because they have that common kernel. So I think that that's actually really important for the industry so that we can avoid a lot of fragmentation and non-compatibility, which will be very difficult for consumers of the technology to go deal with. So inside of that common core, obviously, we at Hortonworks and as a driver and frankly the committer of the ODP core assets, want to make sure that we have extreme stability, scalability, depend of all the illities around each of those core components. And so you'll see us continuing to come out with new innovations. I would say probably the most rapid innovation you'll see because it's one of the newer components is in the Mbari stack, creating a common control and management infrastructure framework and user interface for management of the cluster. And I think inside of the other core components, we continue to drive new innovation in each of the other layers. I would say, however, you'll probably notice more in Mbari just because it's a little bit newer than some of the other components. What about MapReduce and the future of MapReduce? The future of MapReduce, you know, the core tech, I think there are still some functionality and scalability things and stability things that we can build into MapReduce. And I think that it's actually an underlying core tech that a lot of applications are using. And so I don't predict the end of MapReduce like some pundits have been doing. I think it will continue. Over time, I think there will be more engines that come along, that come and go, that serve different needs, and that's okay. It's an ecosystem play and the center of the universe is really moving up to the yarn layer anyway. And so being able to plug additional engines in to work in addition to a MapReduce framework will be very interesting. So MapReduce maybe becomes invisible, but you use the resource negotiator as sort of what people are going to touch and feel and say, go ahead, George. Along the lines of ODP, there's commonality and I imagine that makes it easier to support with the movement to hybrid deployments on-prem and cloud. Does the value add opportunities change for a distro vendor when they're on the cloud? Everyone's potentially on the same release. Your ability to help people run is sort of the same across all customers. I think that the value proposition is a little bit different and obviously we have been investing very heavily in that space. I think that my prediction is that more than 90% will be hybrid. I don't think it'll be either or, but probably both in most instances. And so to that end, there's an additional level of management infrastructure becomes interesting. In the cloud, and we've made some investments with our cloud break technology. Being able, cloud break, being able to provision, cloud providers can provision the hardware. They can provide the bare metal as it were. But then being able to provision, how do I want my Hadoop cluster installed? Which packages do I want there? Which projects are unimplemented? Can I create a blueprint and make that replicable so that I can easily spin up and spin down cloud instances? How do I create provisioning and scaling? So one of the big values behind cloud and one of the reasons I think we'll see lots of hybrid implementation is that burst processing. On Monday morning from eight to noon, I need to double my cluster for processing. And then I'm done with it till next week. So being able to automatically spool up and spool down and have all of the services work and just have that all be streamlined. That's also part of the value add that we can put into the packaging and build around the support model. Does, do you have a different set of competitors in that circumstance where a Microsoft or a Google or an Amazon would potentially compete as the cloud part of the hybrid deployment? Or is that too difficult if you're the distro for on-prem and they would try and be the distro for the cloud? I don't see it as competition. I see them as providing the infrastructure as a service and us being able to add value by helping our customers manage the infrastructure that they're provisioning from those providers. Okay, so in other words, the assumption is there's going to be that you would provide the manageability service. We take those services and actually make them even more consumable for our customers. I think it's a win-win for us and the cloud provider. So we're out of time, but Scott, last question is, how are you spending your time at Hortonworks as a CTO and how does it sort of differ from what you were doing at Teradata and running Teradata Labs? You know, it's about the same in terms of how I spend my time. I probably spend about half of my time in front of customers talking with them about what their needs are, where they're going, how we can help them, how we can help them be more successful. And then obviously the other half of my time with the product management and engineering teams talking about how do we, how do we want to impact the roadmap? How do we want to line up our investments and... And cracking the whip. Well, I don't know if I'd call it that, but yeah. Hurting cats. Hurting cats, right. Excellent, well, Scott, thanks very much. Thank you very much. Great to see you again. Good discussion. Thanks. All right, keep right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. This is day three from Big Data NYC at Strata and Hadoop World. This is theCUBE, right back.