rocking, hand flapping, eye flickering, spinning, bouncing, making noises, watching movies, dancing, self stimulation. Autistic stimming is loosely defined as a stereotypically autistic repetitive verbalization or movement that has the purpose to self-regulate. It's clear to me that the concept of stimming is gradually becoming a lot more watered down and expansive, far beyond what psychologists initially characterized as autistic stimming. Today we're going to have a look at why exactly this expansion has happened, whether it's a good or a bad thing and try to understand why this expansion, why this watering down of the term stimming has occurred. The normalization of stimming. What do I mean? From my time as part of the autistic community, it's very clear that a lot of individuals within that community tend to do a lot of work reframing language and concepts, particularly when speaking about medical deficit-based language, changing things into a more neutral space, removing the value judgments that we place on particular autistic behaviors, and in this case, autistic stimming. Some of these new things that people regard as stims may fit all the appropriate categories, something being repetitive, something being self-regulatory and meeting someone's sensory needs, but they're not necessarily stereotypically autistic behaviors, stereotypical autistic stims. A great example of this is the act of trampolining. Sure, not really something that is characterized in terms of stimming, but bouncing is an autistic stim, it's just the activity in which you do it in is deemed to be stimming too. I think this is a great sort of grey example to demonstrate the looseness at which people regard things as stimming. On the other side, you may have things which are not stereotypically autistic stims and are not repetitive, but do provide some level of sensory input that regulates an autistic person that meets their sensory needs. A great example of this would be listening to music. Having a playlist, a relaxing playlist that helps regulate you when you are feeling very overstimulated, very over-emotional, and you're needing to relax. It's actually something that a lot of people do. A lot of us try to regulate ourselves from input from the outside world, of course, because that is the only way that one can actually perceive the world, do things in the world. By experiencing things in life, you are in some degree experiencing some type of sensory input. And if said sensory input regulates you, do we consider that to be stimming? Or is the repetitive action the important thing? Or perhaps does it need to be this stereotypical thing that we have or psychologists have characterized as autistic stimming in order to be accurate? This is in parts the conundrum, the point of contention. I know I've said that many, many times. The word is just sticking by me. It's probably going to stick around for a long time, contention. What is it about that word that just gets me, you know? I love that. The progression of language is a very large part of human experience. Words shift and change as culture develops and different words are used in other circumstances or expanded to be used in other circumstances or even just take on a completely different meaning. But should we really be trying to keep with this integrity of the word stimming, the word stim, just because that's how it was understood? That's how it was originally concepted of within the scientific medical communities? Or is it something that actually autistic people should decide in terms of its use? But at what point do the definitions, what point does sensory input that any human experiences that relaxes us be termed to be stimming if we do not enforce some level of specificity on what we can characterise as stimming? A differentiating factor, be it. Before I go off on to one of my rants about why this expansion might have occurred, let's talk about stimming for neurotypicals. Autistic stimming, the stimming that most human beings do to self-regulate. And yes, I know, I know. Perhaps people who are not privy to the autistic community, or perhaps even autistic people themselves, you yourself rather, might be like, okay, I'm pretty sure that stimming is an autistic thing. Well, autistic people don't do it, do they? Hmm, well, if you disregard the first part of what I was talking about, being a stereotypically autistic thing, something that is repetitive, that's done over and over again, verbalisation, a movement to self-soothe, is something that a lot of human beings do. It's quite a common thing for human beings to do, especially when we're stressed, you might find people biting their nails, biting a pen lid, twizzling a pen in their fingers, bouncing their leg, sort of shifting side to side, getting rid of what people would deem as nervous energy. It might even be something as obscure as stroking one's facial hair, their beard, or tugging at pieces of flesh on their face. Sounds a bit awful. This is what some creators, one particularly interesting, cool creator, or TNL over on Instagram, deems as a little stim, being something that many people do that's quite discreet, not stereotypically autistic, that people do to regulate repetitive action that regulates them through sensory input. The other side of that coin is the big stems, which is what we would consider to be a little bit more out there, a little bit more noticeable, perhaps a little bit more stereotypical, perhaps just atypical for most people to do. When we remove and strip away the elements of what we consider to be stimming, we take away the stereotypical part, we take away the repetition, it pretty much defines anything that human beings experience. So why has this occurred, why has this expansion occurred, and are people dissolving a once autistic term into nothingness, something that applies to everything? Number one, community growth, community acceptance, the autistic community is exactly what I'm referring to here, not just the general community, that's a very vague term, Thomas. And there's also been a lot of work by autistic people to normalize different aspects of our being, to a point where there is less shame, there is less stigma around such things as stimming. And in fact, straying away from that deficit kind of medical model that I was talking about earlier, people have created this idea of sensory joy, the experience of enjoying one's different sensory world. Autistic people generally have a wide difference compared to our autistic counterparts or non-autistic counterparts. And so different things are more hypersensitive, different things are more hyposensitive, the way that we perceive the world might look a little bit different than most people. This idea of sensory joy very much highlights the benefits of having a different sensory world, the unique beauty, the unique positive experiences that one might have due to having sensory differences. And by making this such a positive kind of fun thing, which isn't founded in such kind of deficit medical based jargon, it has become something a lot more fluid. It's becoming a lot more normalized within the autistic community, it's becoming a lot more accessible to people considering adding into their day. Meeting their sensory needs is turning less from a medical ailment as some people in the world see stimming as into something which is a good thing, something that's regulating, something that can actually bring you joy. Stimming in the mainstream is generally used as a sort of humor. People tend to make fun of autistic people by doing these stimming acts. I'm not going to go through the exact acts that that people do, but I'm sure you've met someone who has tried to act like an autistic person in the various ways that they move, the ways that they act. You know exactly what I'm talking about if you have grown up, particularly in US or UK schools, even maybe Australia, New Zealand. I don't know about any other place in the world, but it definitely was a part of my school experience to see people do this. And likewise, with that inherent stigma, with that inherent humor that people have around pointing out people are doing stuff which isn't normal in their eyes, normal. Looking at it as being weird, looking as being almost inappropriate, maybe. That you're going to have parents, you're going to have professionals who view stimming as an inherently bad thing just because it looks strange, just because it sort of points you out as being someone who is different. There are many harmful teaching practices out there which aim to remove stimming, which if you didn't know is a pretty important tool for an autistic person to self-regulate. The reason, it's not because it's harmful quite often. Sometimes stims can be harmful and I can understand wanting, you know, as a child or wanting an adult to stop harming themselves. That's a little bit different, but when we're talking about non-harmful stimming self-regulation, they still want to get rid of that. They see it as a harmful behavior, not okay thing. Something that is weird, something that is abnormal, that they don't want them to do, just because it even makes people around them feel embarrassed or it makes people around them think that they are different, which they are. Definitions in general can usually be quite highly specific. Ignoring the variability of which kind of dictionary that you look at and who you ask. Stimming, although one seen as something, as I said before, a stereotypical autistic behavior has gone through a fair amount of changes and is generally used to describe things nowadays. If there's something which has a particular sensory element to it that brings you joy, you say that it's stimmy. That thing, that light over there, that's pretty stimmy. Oh, this fidget toy thing that I've got right now, it's a stimmy toy. I'm watching some kind of psychedelic trance music video. That has some visuals on it that look kind of like a kaleidoscope. Oh, that's a bit stimmy that is. I think it's important to remember that the society, the social context, the way that the word is used, even if it's not to the definition, has a lot of impact on how definitions are formed or changed over time. Just because it was once characterized in a certain way does not mean that it's always going to be that way. It's very much dependent on the way that people use the words as to how it is defined on sort of a general scale on a broad, wide scale. Now you may have rightly picked up on one specific phrase that I used during the introduction and that was self-stimulation. Something that you can imagine is some form of sensory input, so often repetitive. And although it's not stereotypical behavior, it does fit those boxes. Give me a second, I'm going to explain. Autistic people for a long time or disabled people in general, generally experience a lot of infantilization and with that infantilization can come some form of desexualization. Basically viewing disabled or autistic people as not being into sex, not having the sex, not being interested in it, not having the capacity to be sexually wanted. And there are some people within the community who do a lot of work to try and make autistic people make autistic adults, particularly more human, less infantilized, just like the rest of society does the rest of people in the world. Now whether you believe that the whole idea of resexualizing or desexualizing or not talking about it at all is very, very much up to you. All I'm doing is pointing out that I think for some people a setting that certain acts are either stimming or mutually stimming could be a way that they might be expressing it in order to desexualize autism. I'm not saying that I particularly agree with one thing or the other, although if we are going to stick to the terms of repetitive and sensory stimulatory and regulatory and all that, it kind of does make sense to a certain degree, but it's by no means a place that I want to, a hill that I want to die on. So let's talk about whether it's a good or a bad thing. This disillusionment, this fracturing of what we consider to be autistic stimming. I think the most important facet of this is that it is normalizing autistic behaviors to a certain degree amongst individuals who may not ever consider stimming or meeting their sensory needs for fear of being ostracized by their peers and also their own internal feelings about what they would think of themselves if they were to do this stereotypical autistic movement or verbalization to try and regulate themselves. I'm talking specifically about high masking individuals, but I do also have experience of feeling a fair bit of shame and a bit of worry and a bit of self-consciousness about using those stereotypical autistic stims in public. I think broadening this idea of what we consider to be stimming to a lot more things and generally approaching it with an air of trying to meet one's sensory needs in a way that regulates them helps them deal with stress. I think that's a good thing, I think to a certain degree we do need some aspect of that because for one it destigmatizes stereotypical autistic stimming and for two it opens people up to finding new ways to regulate and deal with life because god knows we quite often do need those tools those tactics in order to deal with the things that modern day people have to deal with and in fact autistic people have to deal with. I think the understanding that this is something that all humans do to a certain degree we self-stimulate we use repetitive actions like I was talking about before with the pen clicking and the nail biting and the rocking and bouncing your leg I think that's something that many people can relate to and if they can relate to that concept then there's a high likelihood that they will understand why autistic people stim. There may be a lot of theories floating out there and I would hazard a guess that perhaps the intensity at which we stim and the variety in which we stim might be related somewhat to our altered sensory profiles our needs perhaps our higher levels of anxiety and over stimulation from our environment but that's just a guess from me is not concrete. I think the concept of sensory joy is also a very welcome addition to the conversation we don't always need to be viewing autistic traits and behaviors in this very beneficial or deficit-based approach bear with me why does a concept like autistic stimming have to be there primarily to support someone in regulating their emotions why can't it just be something that people enjoy that autistic people just generally find pleasurable generally find nice and fun even if they don't need the regulation I don't think there's a need to really prescribe this as being or it's like a like a medicine you need to get your daily stimming in it can be used in lots of different contexts and I probably say that that's a good context to use it in terms of regulation but that's not the only time at which we need to be talking about autistic behaviors as something that's beneficial to dealing with an issue it should just be okay to do because it's non-harmful not something that we should just get rid of because it's weird to some people it's abnormal to some people some people find it embarrassing that's not a good reason in in my mind I'm not going to live my life according to what random people on the street think of me they've got no impact on my life at all and if people do want to avoid me because I am doing that I don't particularly want to be around people who are so judgy if I'm being honest I believe that this changing language is definitely bringing the idea of sensory differences into a more neutral space not so much of a negative kind of deficit based medical lens it doesn't necessarily have to be that way our sensory experiences can manifest as negative experiences but also positive ones really depends on the context really depends on the person in that situation one of the main arguments against this change um which I could wholeheartedly agree with like I understand where this point of contention comes from there we go again with a contention it comes from just wanting to go by dictionary definitions which is understandable it's nice to have definable terms definable words that don't vary person to person depending on what that person's world view is and what they consider to be stimming or not it's not the most comforting thing I think for a lot of autistic people for there not to be a definable term for the words that you're using I completely understand that I also think that some people may feel like by dissolving this term of autistic stimming by expanding exactly what could be considered to be autistic stimming could be seen as somewhat of an insult if that person views autistic stimming as sort of like a symptom of their child being autistic they don't particularly have very favorable lens towards that autistic child or even even if they just don't like the idea of people appropriating terms that are for a specific protected group I can understand those feelings I it's something that I've been churning around in my head and I've been trying to understand and play with these two conflicting ideas together it's a very complex thing and I don't think it's all going to be completely illuminated and understood and it's all going to be solved by this video but I would really like to hear what you think so if you want to chip into the conversation let me know how you feel please be sure to comment down below what are some of the conclusions that I've drawn from this thought experiments this analysis of autistic stimming and its uses and whether it's good and bad why it's happened I think it's important to remember just how important it can be for normalizing autistic stimming for helping people relate to autistic stimming even if they're an autistic individual not autistic person but also for late diagnosed individuals to see the importance of meeting their sensory needs but also feeling okay feeling comfortable with incorporating things which aren't particularly stereotypically autistic stims I think the term autistic stimming stereotypical term that is used and was characterized in terms of the medical community it's still around I think people characterize it as different things nowadays such as big stims as I was talking about whereas sensory input it's a little bit different sensory needs obviously meeting your sensory needs regulating yourself there's a lot of different ways that people actually communicate meeting your sensory needs regulating yourself they don't always use the term stimming but sometimes they do it really depends on the context it really depends on the person when it comes to people feeling more empowered to meet their sensory needs I think a great example for my my own life I feel like I need a lot of proprioceptive and vestibular input so movement of your body in space or balance based input I find that going to the gym tends to meet a lot of those sensory needs sure not really a repetitive thing unless you count like bice consistent bicep curls a very good standing amount of time as being repetitive it's definitely not a stereotypical autistic stim but it meets my sensory needs in the same way that stimming does in a different way in a way that is good for me please do not try to get bogged down in the definitions and the terms related to stimming a lot of the movements as far as I've seen in the community is a positive movement it's a movement towards moving autistic behaviors and traits into more of a neutral space it's about empowering encouraging others to meet their sensory needs in ways that they deem accessible to them and just from my own autistic experience my sensory differences can make life particularly overstimulating at times but it also allows me to see different sides of life to experience things that somewhat higher intensity to experience things differently and I think that's a great thing I think the whole sensory joy thing is a really sort of more more positive related thing in terms of normalizing autistic behavior or at least de-stigmatizing it to a certain degree I hope you've enjoyed this make sure to like and subscribe if you have and I'll see you in a later video


And now bring your hand closer to it. You will feel some warmth, right? You will feel some heat. Why does that happen? When you sit around fire, you can still feel the warmth from the fire, right? How is this happening? How is the heat getting transferred? Is this heat transferred due to conduction or convection? Let's think about it. Air is a poor conductor of heat, right? So the transfer of heat to your hand from the candle, it can't really take place through conduction because air is a very poor conductor of heat. And the hot air around the candle flame, it's lighter, right? So it will tend to rise. So the transfer of heat cannot also take place by convection because even if you are sitting near next to the fire, then also you are feeling the warmth. So it turns out that the transfer of heat in this case is happening by a method called radiation. Any hot object can radiate heat and it can radiate in all the directions. Let's have a look at this flower. Imagine that the center yellow part is like a hot object and the heat just like the petals, it's going in all the directions. Similarly, a hot object also radiates heat in all the directions. And the great thing about radiation is that even if there is no medium present, even if there is no air, still heat can be transferred by radiation. Just imagine how does the heat energy of the sun reaches the earth. The vast majority of space between the sun and the earth is a vacuum. There is no air present over there. But still the thermal energy, the heat energy, the heat of the sun reaches the earth even through this vacuum. And it reaches the earth by the method of heat transfer which is called radiation.


We're going to continue talking about Palladio, because Palladio really is an important and interesting character. Interesting because his architecture is, well, you would have to call it mannerist. He's always playing games. He's trying to deploy all of the elements of Roman antiquity, the types, the orders. But he's doing it in this masterfully inventive style of recombining things. And part of what he's doing with his recombination is trying to really make the proportions home. He's very interested in architecture as a mathematical art, something that has, in its sphere of interest, this precise deployment of proportion and harmonic ratios. But he also has this incredible plastic sensibility. And by plastic sensibility, I mean really interesting ways of manipulating three-dimensional form and playing with tension between the idea of flatness and the idea of volume. And we'll see that as we move forward. Just wanted to show you a map of Italy in case you've completely forgotten what it looks like. And the answer is boot. Venice is up here in this northern corner of Italy. And the yellow circle loosely represents an area called Veneto, which is the terra firma, the solid ground surrounding Venice. And Venice, of course, is this little mush pile over here floating on artificial ground and surrounded by water. And as a point of reference, these are the other cities that we've been looking at briefly. Of particular interest is the city of Vicenza, on the terra firma. This is the hometown of Palladio. And so as the hometown of Palladio, it has a good collection of Palladio buildings. And we will look at some of these buildings in Vicenza a bit later on in the class. I just want to remind you of some of the things we said last time, particularly pertaining to the idea of this diagram, this diagram that Rudolf Wittkauer gives us. Does anybody want to tell me what this diagram is all about? OK, yes? Tartan grid, right. And Platt is fine, but because this comes from Wittkauer and he lived in England, he uses the word tartan grid. Very British, although he was a German. This is a pattern not made up of even cells, all of which have the same dimensions, but there is a built-in variability here. And that variability begins to allow Palladio to build in the idea of a proportional system. It's not a modular system that keeps spinning itself out same, same, same, but it is a proportional system that has to do with all this difference. And he has a method of recombining it in interesting and different ways. Does anybody remember the words we used to describe Little Bay? And how does Palladio use the Little Bays to help him shape his spaces? Danielle. Ancillary spaces is OK. The word that I used specifically was interstitial space. And interstitial simply means the space in between. And in many ways, you could think of the interstitial space here kind of like a pochet. And pochet is the thickness of the wall that can be carved. And here, it's a kind of thickness of a wall between major spaces that can either be carved to create an extra spatial feature to a room like here in the Villa Malcontenta, or it can be used as a service space. This notion of served and service spaces is a really useful concept to carry with you even into the design studio. That what Palladio is doing here is building in a strategy to allow him to put in service spaces without undermining the clarity of his major spaces. So they get to have their perfect proportions. They get to have their perfect geometry. They get to have their perfect vault because Palladio preloaded the diagram with this relationship of served and service spaces. So sometimes the service spaces get full of service stuff like stairs or foyers. And sometimes the service spaces get absorbed into a larger central figure, like here at the Villa Coronara where the center gets big or here at Malcontenta. Fabulous. So there you have that. This is sort of boring by now, but at one point it was thought to be marvelous. And that point was when people could barely make computers do anything. And a few people came together and wrote a shape grammar. They studied Palladio's drawings and they studied his plans and they wrote a little program that could make you as many Palladian villas as you wanted based on those rules. And I think that they look bad, but they have proportions that have some kind of clarity to them. We looked at the villas and we saw that in Palladio's attempt to deal with this building type of the country house, the villa, he's working through ideas about what that might be. And he's working through those ideas based on a desire to find a decorous solution to the problem. And by decorum, I mean the right material, the right cheerfulness or gravity, the right imagery, the right way to express the stature of somebody here like Gian Giorgio Trisino, Palladio's patron for whom this early house was designed. By the way, Trisino was the one who gave Palladio his cute nickname, Palladio. Palladio refers to Pallas Athena, the goddess of wisdom.  And so we all call him Palladio. I don't remember even what his last name is, it's fallen through the cracks of history. In looking at the villa Trisino, we thought this is fairly timid, it stays close to a traditional typology of a castellated country house, a big solid block with corner towers. And we looked at a slightly later house, the Villa Gordi in Loneido, and saw that he's still dealing with this typology of tower, but the tower now becomes embraced within the overall geometry of the house. But still in terms of a characteristic expression, Palladio is struggling with it. And eventually he comes up with what we know as his major strategy, and that is the idea of taking this pagan religious form, the temple, and somehow fusing it, or superimposing it on the blocky rustic farmhouse. This is probably the most spectacular example of Palladio's, well, one of the most spectacular examples of Palladio using this strategy to begin to organize a large country house. And this country house is for Daniele Barbero, who wrote his own Vitruvius, and this is what it looks like, with temple in the middle and these wings of farm buildings on either side. Full of this great painting by the painter Veronese, very important, and we saw a number of other things. We paused a bit longer to look at two of the villas because they are sort of ones that exemplify his ambitions. One is the Villa Rotanda, really just about three kilometers out of the center of Vicenza, but far enough a way to be called country house. It's a little bit different than many of the other villas that we looked at insofar as it's not really a working farm. The Villa Barbero is a working farm, so it has its wings spreading out. The Villa Amo is a working farm, so it has all of its service wings spreading out. Villa Rotanda is really just a country retreat, suburban house, you might say, rather than a real rural working farm. And because of that, it can attain a condition of ideality not available to the other ones. It really has nothing to do but be fabulous. And so since that's its task, it can assume this ideal geometry of square and circle and cross in a way that really exemplifies many of the ambitions of Renaissance architects to deal with these perfect forms. And this is just a site plan to show you how it's situated on its site. And I think this is really useful because you see it's on the high ground here. And so in this direction, it commands these long views. This is that little sunken road that approaches it from the front. And also from this direction, if we look at it this way, it's also on the high ground. So fabulous. A thing we noticed when we looked at the Villa Rotanda, not Ron Tanda, but Rotanda, is there's a funny attitude or revealing attitude about how the portico, this classical feature, this pagan temple front, gets stuck on the farmhouse. And it is an ambiguous strategy and it involves this piece of the wall that seems to come from the interior and come out so that you understand the temple not simply as an ideal piece clipped on as a perfect thing, but somehow negotiating between these two different conditions. Fabulous. Here you can see, I think, the topography pretty well about how this thing sits on its hill and really becomes this focus for the landscape at a great distance. Palladio here is interested in the planarity of the portico and he's emphasizing that by using a ionic order. And he's using it in a straightforward way where the ionic order with its curling volumes emphasizes the plane. Plane, plane, plane. As it moves around the corner, it doesn't inflect in a different direction because it wants to establish the plane as the dominant feature. Proportion, proportion. We also looked at the Villamel Contenta, which has a different site than any of the other Palladian villas and that is because it's on a canal. It's on the Brenta Canal, one of these canals that extends all the way into Venice. And if you ever want to spend a lot of money, you could buy the cruise on the Brenta Canal boat where they give you lunch and take you to a bunch of villas. I have never done that because I think it's too expensive. Anyhow, here you see the same strategy. We see this condition that the villa sits in between the canal on this side and a garden that extends back on this side. So in terms of the front elevation, if you were to look very quickly at Malkontenta over here and Rotunda over here, you would say, it looks like Palladio has solved this problem of how to decorously deal with the question of the country house. From a certain vantage point, they look very similar. There is this attic story up here and then there is this major floor with the vaulted rooms down below and a portico. I guess one big difference. Well, there are a lot of big differences. One big difference is how you approach the house. In the case of the Villa Rotunda, all four porches have this axial flight of stairs that takes you straight to the center. In the case of the Malkontenta, the stairs slip behind the portico in a different way. And that's one difference. An implication of the way the stairs engage the portico is that the portico hits the side of the building in a different way. This is Malkontenta, where we do have this free portico and this is Villa Rotunda, where the wall comes dragged behind it. This is the Wittkauer diagram showing us how Malkontenta gets its figureality of its central space by embracing Little Bay and absorbing it into this cross vaulted hall. And these are the different facades as Malkontenta meets the river and the garden. I just want to show you a detail of the material because it's pretty interesting. There is this exaggerated rustication of the material and it's funny because it's stucco. It's not made of stone or anything like this. Palladio is giving you the image of rustication simply by incising the stucco with these markers. And here we have the fabulousness of the central hall, the cross vaulted hall. I think Palladio's stuff gets pretty interesting the less ideal the site is. Because I would say Malkontenta is already more interesting than Rotunda because Rotunda is kind of porch, porch, porch, done. Whereas in the case of Malkontenta, there's this difference. What is it to meet the canal? What is it to meet the garden? What is it to pull the figure of the portico out? What is it to suppress it in flatness? As Palladio begins to build in cities, he has a lot more conditions to negotiate and he comes up with pretty interesting solutions. This is the Palazzo Chiricati in Vicenza. And it's at the edge of town. It's absolutely at the edge of town. If we were to look at our little map, it's kind of a hybrid building. It's half Palazzo, half villa. A Palazzo is all about edge. A Palazzo is all about suppressing its own figureality in the interest of shaping spaces. So certain things that we've come to expect in Palladian villas like these nice porticoes that pop out all over the place, not happening here. However, typologically and actually functionally, he wants something like that. He wants to have a gracious, decorous way to enter the building. He begins to perform a different operation with a facade. And that is he carves. Instead of adding a portico, he subtracts a portico. In fact, there's a colonnade that is continuous along the ground level and then he subtracts up above to give you little balconies that you can stand on. If you look at the facade as a kind of figure ground, it's almost a figure ground reversal of what you would see in something like Malcontenta. Here we have wall, wall, wall, wall, bunch of columns in the middle. And here we have columns, columns, columns, columns, wall in the middle. And wall in the middle is the major chamber. This, because it's an urban building, operates on the system of Piano Nobile. Major spaces go up higher where you're away from the clamor of the street, where you're away from all of the disturbances and you get the long view and the fresh breezes. If you look at the plan of Kedikati, the plan also just looks incredibly squashed. It's like somebody sat on an ideal villa or something. It constellates itself as a series of bars. So much so that this is the courtyard. The courtyard is this like residual little slice of bread in this highly varied loaf that we have here. Palladio has frequently been thought of as a Renaissance guy, somebody who perfected the use of the orders, who perfected the use of the types. But in a building like Kedikati, where the site is difficult, he begins to make adjustments to these ideal things. I'm just showing you here the side of this colonnade as it pulls out, gives us that characteristic arch motif that we saw on the villas. You probably can't see very well what's going on here, but make an effort to. This is the point where the center, this portico thing, ever so slightly, pulls out from the colonnade thing and individuates itself as a figure. So how does he do that? Because he wants to have this continuous colonnade at ground level. So you can walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. But he also wants it to read and he comes up with this funny idea of a column. Where that little column pulls out, you begin to get something that's a double. If you looked at the plan of the column, it wouldn't be singular, it wouldn't be circular, it would look like an eight. It would look like a kind of double figure. So Palladio is playing fast and loose with the rules of architecture. Palladio is sly. He's also doing some things that are somewhat conventional, which is to say he's got a two-story building. So what would be a good way to make a two-story building in terms of using the orders? Anybody have an idea? If you had a two-story building, what order would your first story be? What order would your second story be? Yes, absolutely right. Doric on the ground and Ionic above it. And that's exactly what he does. Doric on the ground, Ionic above it. And here, he's got a kind of wilder idea about what happens with the Ionic. That is to say, in something like Rotunda, he's really interested in the plane. But here, he wants to make some kind of relationship between this slightly extended piece of the building and the piece behind it. So he cranks out a volume at a 45 degree angle so that it can turn the corner so that it can operate spatially. Oh, Palladio, you're so sly. Sadly, the interiors of this building are badly eroded and you don't get the same clear expression of Palladio's language as you do in some of the villas. Let's look at some of his churches because I think his churches are really his most interesting buildings. San Giorgio Maggiore is over here. It's over here in Venice. Remember Venice? Everybody make a map of Venice in case you're ever there and you get lost? Good. It's actually not even quite in Venice. It's on a little island called the island of San Giorgio Maggiore floating out over here. And what's nice about that is you get these big, long views of the façade from across over here in the Piazzetta of St. Mark's Square. This is the Ducal Palace. And if you stand right over here, your view is something like this of the façade. This is a really interesting condition for a façade to operate in because really the problem with most façades is you can't get far enough away from them to see them. Or let's say you're so close to them you see them obliquely. You can't read them as an elevation. But in the case of these façades on the canal in Venice, you're across so much water that you can really read this thing as an elevation. And so Palladio plays with the elevational quality of it and makes it really legible. This I think is a good view of it as elevation. And what's his strategy for making this elevation? How does he use classical typology to organize a building that deals with a basilican section? Any ideas? What types is he using here? And what does he do? What's his trick? Tom. He's just got one temple going on there? Just one large temple? Okay, so you're saying there's a large temple and that's it. And he organizes his door through the temple. Can anybody see anything other than a large temple? Yes. Good. You're saying he uses two temples and he uses a technique of layering. So you can read one temple against another temple and that begins to organize your procession. So the temple that Tom talked about up here is the forward layer and Ryan identified that there's also a backward layer over here. And look what he does with the ground plane. It's pretty clever. We've already seen this kind of syncopation going on, say in Santa Maria della Pace in Rome where different scales are manipulated. We have the scale of the skinny temple helped along and kept proportional by situating the columns on plinths, these big blocks that allow a ground plane more or less here to be established. For the low temple, the ground plane is the ground plane. He's got not only the layering, but he's got the slipping up and the slipping down. Perfect. You get something that works like a basilica, but you do it in terms of classical language. I just wanna show you how paper thin these facades are. If you look at the church obliquely, you'll see that Palladio didn't waste marble on the side. It really looks like a drawing of a church or cardboard cutout of a church stuck on the volume of a building. Another thing you see from this oblique view is that there's a kind of schizophrenia going on in terms of how the building expresses itself as a facade and what it delivers as an interior. And by that I mean flat, flat, flat, flat, flat, bumpy, bumpy, bumpy. Two different conditions are going on. And really the dome is so far away. Here's the facade. The dome is so far away that if you're close to the building, this is all you can see. But if you're across the canal, you can begin to understand the dome in relationship to the church. Clever. I wanna say a few more things about close versus far because I think Palladio does this in a way that's really masterful. You get this one reading of a domed temple. Kind of amazing. Hmm, domed temple. Can anybody think of a temple with a big dome in it from classical antiquity? Pantheon, right? It doesn't exactly look like the pantheon, but it's pantheonic. At least there's a precedent that's being used and it's not being rebuilt spatially. It's being conjured up perspectively. It's using the fact that this thing is viewed like a billboard and it can collect its layers together and be understood and read as an orthographic projection. When you're close to it, all that goes away, all you get are the temples. But the way the temple meets the ground becomes really useful. There is this development in plinth land of a kind of low scale that relates to the scale of the human body. The scale of this stuff is so big it really relates to the viewer across the water. The scale of this stuff is so small that it can be looked at but also used by the viewer. It forms a bench and you can actually sit on and occupy the church. Fabulous. Audio loves proportion. And these are some of Cesariano's ideal diagrams like the radical two rectangle. You take a diagonal through a square and you pull it down. Two by three rectangle, three by five rectangle, square, golden rectangle. And Palladio makes use of all of these kinds of proportions in his church. Beautiful. Here's the plan. We had a hint that something a bit odd was going to happen when we looked at the distant view and we saw that there is this kind of juxtaposition between the extreme planarity of the facade and the extreme figureality of the building. And I think extreme is the only word to be used for it because it is a monastic church. And in monastic churches, you really have two different kinds of users. You have the laity, people who are not part of the monastic order and you have the monks. And it's important to separate these two user groups. So here we have the monks choir sticking out over here. Here we have the area for the laity to come. And this is the crossing. And this is kind of the apps, but not quite the apps because there's this constant projection of the space through these screens beyond these screens. It's really quite amazing. Your sense of what the building is changes when you move to the interior and you begin to read this thing like a centralized church with a big crossing and these extensive elements moving in both directions. Look at how Palladio deals with edge or deals with corner. He really runs with the plasticity. Over here we see a technique that looks familiar, let's say from Brunelleschi where he has the gray stone and the white whitish creamer stucco, but much more plasticly developed. And by the time we get to the piers, it's a bundle of plasters and columns that negotiate the turn fabulously. Palladio did another church in Venice, also spectacular called Il Redentore. And the Redentore is over here on an island called the Giudecca. So here's San Giorgio Maggiore, here's the Redentore and here's all of Venice. This is St. Mark's in through here. By not being in the thick tangle of Venice, the Redentore also has the opportunity to be read as pure elevation. And this is what you get when you look at it really from the opposite side, or actually I think this is from a boat, one of the vaporettos, these water buses that they have in Venice. It really looks like a drawing, doesn't it? It really looks like a perfect orthographic projection. This is just a funny moment in Venice where a cruise ship sails down and you see this church of the Redentore at the same scale as the cruise ship, that they're exactly the same size, except one is a major piece of architecture and a large church and the other is a cruise ship. Comparisons between San Giorgio Maggiore as drawn by Palladio and Redentore as drawn by Palladio. And notice that San Giorgio Maggiore comes first, Redentore comes second. When Palladio draws San Giorgio Maggiore, he doesn't draw the dome. You can see the dome if you're over by the San Marco but he doesn't draw the dome. But I'm sure he thought should have drawn the dome. I should have realized that you could see this thing from far away and that I could actually organize that as part of my elevation idea. When Palladio draws Redentore for his publication, he includes the dome. And this is a pretty interesting facade, you gotta say. In many ways, it's similar to the facade of San Giorgio Maggiore and similar in that we have here a temple up on a plinth, a temple down on the ground and here we also have a temple up on a porch or a plinth and a temple down on the ground. But we have a lot more stuff here. We have a lot of stuff. For example, here we have a hip roof. A hip roof slanting backwards. But if you draw a hip roof slanting backwards, what does it look like? Looks just like a pediment, right? And we have this block and then we have the dome. Lots of stuff to think about. I think this drawing is pretty useful in showing you this strange attitude that Palladio has about all the layers. I think when we were discussing the facade of San Giorgio Maggiore, we noticed that he was dealing with layering to begin to create something that is perceived to be a deeper space than it is or perceived to be a shallower space than it is, depending on your vantage point. And here too, the very structure of Redentore has to do with these buttresses that come out really like slices of bread off the loaf of bread.  And then suddenly bang, the hybrid condition that we noticed in San Giorgio Maggiore happening again and this kind of battle between something that wants to organize itself as a centralized church with a big dome and something that wants to be this pulled apart orthographic projection of a series of layers in space. This is what it looks like on the side. Quite fabulous. Volume, volume, volume, flat. And it could be that Palladio was really thinking about this thing as an orthographic projection because there are vantage points within the church that begin to let the different layers collapse together based on your cone of vision. And there are also vantage points in viewing this that begin to make it look like other buildings we've seen before, particularly something like this. This is Palladio's sketch and Palladio's drawing of a building we're familiar with. Do you know what that building is? Kevin, what is this building? Yes, of course, it's the pantheon. And so look what we have in the pantheon. It's kind of interesting. We have a temple, we have a temple, and we have a dome. And so even this block that seems like a funny thing that's used to negotiate the joining of the temple to the cylinder in the pantheon is something that gets rebuilt in Redentore. In many ways, Palladio is rebuilding the pantheon and think about the problem that the Renaissance had with the centralized church. You love the centralized church. You wanna build the centralized church, but you cannot really organize a worship service inside of a centralized church. There's no place for the procession. There's no place for the altar. There's no hierarchy between the clergy and the congregation. But what if you could make it read like a centralized church? What if you could play with drawing conventions like orthographic projection, the flattening of all these layers together on a drawing and therefore build yourself a virtual pantheon? It sort of seems like that's what Palladio is doing. He's building himself a virtual pantheon. Now in the case of the pantheon, all of these different layers are quite close. And look at this. This is that extra triangle that really you don't notice ever when you're dealing with the pantheon. But Palladio would have crawled around on this thing, sketching it. Palladio would have spent a lot of time not simply having a coffee and reading a newspaper while near the pantheon, but measuring every stone, looking at every little piece of joinery. And so I think he's using a strategy, very akin to pulling apart the space of the pantheon and then slingshotting it back together again. So much so that in plan, when we get this thing, we're actually beginning to experience the space that's promised us in elevation from the idea of the dome. Palladio wasn't the only guy to deal with this issue. Perhaps you remember Vignola from the gardens that we were talking about last time. Vignola is also a kind of crazily inventive mannerist. And there's a little church by Vignola, San André in Via Flaminia on the outskirts of Rome. And it looks like Vignola is dealing with the same situation here. It's an ovalized church and this church has a ovalized drum that extends up. So over here, this is what we see when standing in front of it. We see a square block and a temple and an incredibly flat representation of the orders as pilasters, not fully spatialized as they would be in a real pantheon. But we have a square block and we have a temple. And perspectively, when you look at this drum and you flatten it out, you're at this kind of close framed advantage point, you can't read the ideal proportions but you read it and it begins to look domey. It begins to look like a little dome. So here is a precedent really for rebuilding the pantheon as orthographic projection, trying to give yourself the image of the pantheon while still giving yourself a form that allows pieces to be read differently. Kind of clever, funny looking thing, isn't it? Palladio solution is much more elegant. It's also possible that Palladio is collapsing even other readings in here. For example, this space is really strange and what makes it so strange are these thresholds that you come across where the space is clipped in and you think you have a thing, longitudinal church. Clipped in, you think you have a thing, centralized church. Clipped in and you see beyond that to something that begins to set up the whole argument all over again. And what could Palladio be thinking of? How could somebody who gets credit for being so renaissance-y do something so crazy? And it could be that he's also thinking about other precedents like a forum. Or if this could be simultaneously church-like and forum-like. And you think about what the condition of, say, one of the imperial fora would have been where there's a temple inside of a construct with these different lobes. And what if you pulled those pieces apart and you began to get something that begins to look kind of like a temple with these lobes surrounding it? Who knows what Palladio's thinking, but there's a real density of references that go on in his work. Let's look at some of the other urban buildings. For example, this one. This is quite an early Palladio building. It's called the Basilica, or Palazzo della Ragione, the town hall, more or less. This is how Palladio draws it in his treatise. He draws it in his treatise as a fairly ideal thing with a fairly even set of bays. And this is a big lie because Palladio here is refurbishing a Gothic building that already existed. Vicenza, where this is located, is in Veneto. And Veneto is part of Venice. Instead of having, say, a king or a prince or a duke settle all the matters, there's a real democratic spirit in Venice. And you would have this council chamber where citizens would come and make decisions about policy. So it's an important building. And you find these in lots of the main towns in Veneto. If you look at this fabulous Google version of the world, here it is. It's a big thing. But we saw how Palladio drew it. This is really what it's like. This is the real plan.  Palladio, again and again, will draw the ideal concept of the building in his treatise and not really tell you all of the kind of messy truth. But Palladio gets a building that's kind of like this. You have one of these fabulous domes. And when I say domes, fabulous barrel vaults built by the carpenters from the Arsenaale. People schooled in shipbuilding, build a ship upside down. And that's what you get for the vaulting of the upper chamber, really an amazing space. But now Palladio has to deal with this irregular bay system and all of this kind of oddness of the Gothic arches. And what's he going to do? Because he's a Renaissance guy. He wants to use classical language. He wants round-headed arches. He wants rhythms that are orderly. And you can see from this drawing that he's going to give you that, or he's going to at least give you the image of that. And I think this piece of the drawing begins to give you a tip into what Palladio is doing. And this is the corner condition that Palladio is doing. It's this piece blown up really large. He's using that kind of plastic attitude about the pier that we saw when we looked at the piers at the crossing of San Giorgio Maggiore, where a lot of different elements get plastered together at different scales, calling out different readings. We have little guy, big guy, other guy pulling itself out at the corner. But look what we have on the individual bays. Here we have pier, little guy's space, little guy's pier. But look what happens immediately next to it. He's subtly adjusting the rhythm as you move along. He's changing it so that you think you're getting this ideal condition. But in fact, there's incredible variability going on in it. What I have up here is the Palazzo della Ragione in Padua, which is another Veneto town. And this one didn't get decorated up by Palladio. But the one in Vicenza probably would have looked a lot like this had Palladio not intervened. If you look at the wall of this, you think, well, this is pretty much exactly as he drew it, this ideal thing. But if you look carefully at it, you see that there are all of these little adjustments, all of these amazing adjustments. And nobody is better at turning the corner than Palladio. You've got to say. Here's another building. This is exactly across the square from the Palazzo della Ragione. Here's the Palazzo della Ragione. Here's the loggia del Capitagnato. And the Capitagnato are just city council, a group of important citizens. And the loggia is this space here. So the important citizens could hang out and have learned conversations right here off the main square. The version that we have right now is a three-bay version, which I think is pretty great looking. Apparently Palladio had wanted it to be larger, didn't get built. I like it just fine as a three-bay system. And one thing that's nice about the three-bay system is as a triad of arches, it can begin to play with a lot of precedents that a six-bay system or seven-bay system wouldn't be able to play with, such as the triumphal arch. So you read this three-bay system, and you automatically connect it to a tradition of elements. And I think it's hard for me to believe it would have been bigger, because it works so well at this scale. Typical Palladio is deploying multiple scales. And he's realizing the fact that there are two different ways of seeing this thing. There's the big view from across the square, and there's the little view from right next to it.  And so how does the building turn the corner when its condition is so different on either side of the corner? And how does the building deal with these different scales? The piazza side, the side toward the town square, has this colossal order of Corinthian columns. Fabulous. But notice what happens as it turns the corner. It begins to shift scale. You have this row of balconies that gets set up above the arches. So already here on the front facade, you have two scales. Scale of pilasters holding up the arches, scale of columns holding up the entablature. And as it shifts, these two levels begin to subdivide. And over here, the balconies set up kind of new ground plane. And you get even a further diminution of the scale. You get this little triumphal arch motif coming on in here. Fabulous. So there's a shrinking from one scale to the other. And the colossal order as we move around the corner shifts into a minor order that only organizes one story. If you happen to be walking down this street, you can see what's going on and the scale of the ornament is geared to the scale of the space from which it's being seen. Fabulous, Palladio. Fabulous. This is the switcheroo as you move around the corner. And this is Palladio's drawing of that side elevation where he moves from the tall to the small to the really small. Looks so good. Looks like it had to be this size. It seems crazy that it was any other size ever. Probably one of the most interesting urban buildings that Palladio did. And this is also in Vicente, very close to Chiaricati on the edge of town. And that is the Teatro Olímpico or the Olympic Theater. Already looking at this plan, you should pause and say, that's a strange plan. But it's a strange plan because it's a theater. And so Palladio is making a building for a theater and we know the type of theater from classical antiquity. That you have this sort of semi-circular seating space. You have a stage. And here, you have all these fake perspectives. Fake perspective, fake perspective so that the actors can walk onto stage, through these different doors and you get this sense that the space is much deeper than it is. You get an image of what these scenes look like in the stage sets drawn by Serlio and in his architectural treatise. This is the Chena Tragica where we get a fake perspective. And these things actually get built into the space of Palladio's Teatro Olímpico. I'm just showing you a Roman precedent here. This is the theater in Orange, France. Palladio has basically given you what we have in Orange, which is the seating, the circular form, and then the wall, which here in Orange is this kind of large proscenium. But Palladio is actually allowing perspective, allowing vision to further amplify the space through these perspectival tunnels that he cuts into it. This is more or less what we have and it's a bizarre looking thing, right? We have the space of the seating. We have the space of the stage right over here.  So you have the space, triangular cones of space, pulling off in either direction. Really great. And Palladio is using things like the triumphal arch motif also to organize this whole big wall that he has. He used to be a tour guide, this old guy. And he was a prisoner of war in World War II. So he was a really old guy and he didn't speak English, but he was a prisoner of war for such a long period of time. He could do things like say, how are the Dodgers doing? And then he would have no idea what you would answer. But whatever his prison captors would tell you, he would repeat. But the one thing he would say as the tour guide who didn't speak much English, when you asked him about the building, he would say, too many statues, too many statues. And in fact, there are a lot of statues. But this is a technique that Palladio uses again and again and again. And that is the pairing between the body and the column. There's a precedent in Greek architecture. There are these things called acriteria. These things on the top of the temples that reach up. And Palladio here terminates the edge of the line of the columns with little statues moving upward. This is just showing you the schizophrenic nature of the space where there is half a square and part of a circle, let's say, that begin to allow the skewering of these two different spatial experiences to come together. And these are just a few urban buildings by Palladio. This is the Palazzo Val Marana. And he's got the challenge here of how do you meet your neighbor? What is the decorous way to meet your neighbor? Particularly if, like Palladio, you're interested in these big moves. And for Palladio here at the Palazzo Val Marana, the big move is a colossal order that organizes two stories. He's not content to be like the guy next door saying, here's a window, here's a window, but rather bang, I'm making this whole thing read at the scale of Roman architecture. It's not domestic architecture, it's Roman. But his strategy for ending the system is really similar to his strategy for turning the corner at the loge del Capitagnato. And that is, he takes the plaster and he's got this kind of doubling going on here so that there are smaller things happening on the window surrounds. And then instead of putting another plaster down here, he shrinks the scale and terminates it with a human figure. By the time he gets to the neighboring building, there is a kind of decorous response in terms of scale and how he meets his neighbor. So fabulous.  This is one that was meant to be five bays. But as a two bay system, it's pretty spectacular because it's so muscular in the development of the order and so out of proportion with the delicacy of the geometry of all Palazzo. And these are just a few more of his urban buildings in Vicenza. Here in the Palazzo Tiele, he's dealing with rustication. And there are spaces in this that really remind you of Palazzo del Te in the hyper rustication of the orders themselves. I think that is it for Palladio. See you next time.


From the CUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. Hello everyone, welcome to the CUBE conversation here in the Palo Alto studio. I'm John Furrier, host of the CUBE. We are here with the quarantine crew of the CUBE, having the conversations that matter the most now and sharing that with you. You've got a great guest here, Phil Quaid, who's the chief information security officer of Fortinet. Also the author of a book, Digital Bing Bang, which I just found out he wrote, talking about the different cybersecurity and the physical worlds coming together. And we're living that now with COVID-19 crisis, we're all sheltering in place. Phil, thank you for joining me on this CUBE conversation. Hey, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me today. So I want to get in this quickly, that I think the main top thing is that we're all sheltering in place, anxiety's high, but people are now becoming mainstream aware of what we all in the industry have been known for a long time. Role of data, cybersecurity, access to remote tools. And we're seeing the work at home, the remote situation really putting a lot of pressure on as I've been reporting what I call at scale problems and one of them is security, right? One of them is bandwidth. We're starting to see, you know, the throttling of the packets. People are now living with the reality of like, wow, this is really a different environment, but it's been kind of a disruption and has created crimes of opportunity for bad guys. So this has been a real thing. Everyone's aware of it across the world. This is something that's now aware on everyone's mind. What's your take on this? Because you guys are fighting the battle and providing solutions and been doing it for a long time around security. This highlights a lot of the things in the surface area called the world. What's your take on this? Yeah, for a while, pre-COVID-19, Courtney has been advocating for architectures and strategies that allow you to defend anywhere from the edge through the core all the way up to the cloud doing so with, you know, high speed and integration. And so all of a sudden what we're seeing, not just in the US, but the world as well, is that that edge is being extended in places that we just hadn't thought about before, or excuse me, that people just hadn't planned for before. So so many people are telecommunicating these days. So we need to make sure we are able to move that edge securely out to people's homes and more remote locations and do so providing the right type of security and privacy for those communications that are coming out of those telecommunications. I noticed you have a flag in the background and for the folks that might not know, you spent a lot of time at the NSA, government agency doing a lot of cutting-edge work, I mean, going back to, you know, really, post-911 to now you're in the private sector with Fortinet, so you don't really speak for the agency, but you did live through a time of major transformation around homeland security, looking at data, again, different physical thing, you know, terrorist attacks, but it did bring rise to large-scale data, it did bring to those things, so I wanted to kind of point out, so the flag there, nice touch there, but now that you're in the private sector, it's another transformation, it's not a transition. We're seeing a transformation and people want to do it fast and they don't want to have disruption. This is a big problem, what's your reaction to that? Yeah, I think what you're pointing out that sometimes there's catalysts that cause major changes in the way you do things, and I think we're in one of those right now, we're already in the midst of an evolutionary trend towards more distributed workforces, and as I mentioned earlier, doing so with the right type of security and privacy, but I would think what I think the global pandemic is showing is that we're all going to be accelerating that thing, it's going to be a lot less evolutionary and a little bit more faster. That's what happens when you have major world events like this, be it 911 or other unfortunate tragedies, it causes people to think outside the box or accelerate what they are already doing. I think we're in that world today. It pulls forward a lot of things that are usually on the planning side and it makes them reality. I want to get your thoughts because not only are CEOs and their employees all thinking about the new work environment, but the chief information security officers, people in your role, have to be more aware of more things happening. What's on the minds of CISOs around the world these days, obviously the pandemic's there. What are you seeing? What are some of the conversations? What are some of the thought processes? What specifically is going on in the mind of the chief information security officer? Yeah, I think there's probably two different things. There's the emotional side and there's the analytic side. On the emotional side, you might say that some ceasers are saying, finally, I get to show how cybersecurity can be an enabler of business, right? I can allow you to maintain business continuity by allowing your workers to work from home and trying to sustain business and allow you to keep paying their salaries. Very, very important to society. It's a very important time to step up as a CISO and do what's helpful to sustain mission. And on the practical side, you say, oh my goodness, my job's gotten a whole lot harder because I can rely less and less on some of the physical controls that use some of the physical benefits you get from people coming inside the headquarter facility through locked doors and there's personal cognizance and personal identification, authentication. You need to move those same security strategies and policies and you need to move it out to this broad edge that's gotten a lot bigger and a lot more distributed. So I want to ask you around some of the things that are on cybersecurity that have been elevated to the top of the list, obviously with the disruption of working at home. It's not like an earthquake or tornado or hurricane or flood. You know, there's backup and recovery for that. You've all kind of disaster recovery. This has been an unmitigated disaster in the sense of it's been an unforecast. And I was talking to an IT guy, he was saying, well, we provisioned our VLANs to be, our VPNs to be 30% and now they need 100%. So that disruption has caused an under forecast. So in cyber, as you guys are always planning and protecting, has there been some things that have emerged that are now top of mind that are 100% mind share base or new solutions or new challenges? Well, I think what we were referring to earlier is that, yep, any good CSO or company executive is going to prepare for unexpected things to a certain degree. You need to, whether it be spare capacity or the ability to recover from something, an act of God, as you mentioned, maybe a flood or a tornado or hurricane, stuff like that. What's different now is that we have a disruption which doesn't have an end date, meaning there's a new temporal component that's been introduced that most companies just can't plan for, right? Even the best of companies that, let's say, run very large data centers, they have backup plans where they have spare fuel to run backup generators to provide electricity to their data centers, but the amount of fuel they have might only be limited to 30 days or so stored on site. Well, you might think, well, that's pretty, that's a lot of forethinking by storing that much fuel on site for to allow you to sort of work your way through a hurricane or other natural disaster. What we have now is a worldwide crisis that doesn't have a 30-day window on it, right? We don't know if it's going to be 30 days or 120 days or even worse than that. So what's different now is that it's not just a matter of surging and doing something with band-aids and twine for an extra 30 days. What we need to do as a community is prepare solutions that can be enduring solutions. I have some things that if we have some time, I like to provide a little color what those types of solutions are, but that would be my main message that this isn't just a surge for 30 days, this is a surge for being agile with a no end in sight. Take a minute to explain some of those solutions. What are you seeing? What are specific examples and solutions that you can go deeper on there? Yeah, so I talked earlier about the edge, meaning the place where users interact with machines and company data, that edge is no longer at the desktop down the hallway, it could be 10 miles or 50 miles away to where depending on where I'm telecommuting from. So that means we need to push the data confidentiality things out between the headquarters and the edge. You do that with things like secure tunnels called VPNs. You also need to make sure that the user identification authentication is very, very secure, very authentic and with high integrity. So you do that with multi-factor authentication. And there's other things like that that are very, very practical that you do to support this new architecture. And the good news is that they're available today. And the good news at least with some companies, they're already had one foot in that world. But as I mentioned earlier, not all companies have yet embraced the idea of where you're going to have a large percentage of your workforce doing telecommuting. So they're not quite, so they're reacting quickly to make sure this edge is better protected by identification and authentication and VPNs. I want to get to some of those edge issues that now translate to kind of physical digital virtualization of life. But first I want to ask you around operational technology and IT, OT, IT. These are kind of examples where you're seeing at scale problem with the pandemic being highlighted. So cloud providers, et cetera, are all kind of impacted and bringing solutions to the table.  Is there anything around the automation side of it that you've seen emerge? Because all the people that are taking care of being a supplier in this new normal or this crisis, certainly not normal, has leveraged automation and data. So this has been a fundamental value proposition that highlights what used to be called the DevOps movement in the cloud world. But automation has become hugely available and a benefit to this. Can you share your insights into how automation is changing with cyber? I think he queued up a nice question for me. It allowed me to talk about not only automation, but convergence. So let's hit automation first, right? We all, even in pre-crisis, we need to be better at leveraging automation to do things that machines do best to allow people to do higher order things, whether it's unique analysis or something else. With a more distributed workforce and perhaps fewer resources, automation is more important ever to automatically detect bad things that are about to happen and automatically mitigating them before they get too bad. In the cybersecurity world, you use things like agile segmentation and you use techniques called SOAR. It's a type of security orchestration. And you want to leverage those things very, very highly in order to leverage automation to have machines serve humans rather than humans serve machines. But you also brought up one of my favorite topics, which is OT, operational technology. So OT as you know, are the things that are used to control for the past almost 100 years now, things in the physical world, like electric generators and pipes and valves and things like that, often used in our critical infrastructures. In my company, Fortnet, we provide solutions that secure both the IT world, the traditional cyber domain, but also the OT systems of the world today where safety and reliability are about most important. And so what we're seeing with the COVID-19 crisis is that supply chains, transportation, research, things like that, a lot of things that depend on OT solutions for safety and reliability are much more forefront of mind. So from a cybersecurity strategy perspective, what you want to do of course is make sure your solutions in the IT space are well integrated with your solutions in the OT space. So an adversary or a mistake cause a work into the crack and cause a disruption. That convergence is interesting. You know, we were talking before you came on camera around the fact that all these events are being canceled, but that really highlights the fact that the physical spaces are no longer available, the so-called OT operational technologies of events, the plumbing, the face-to-face conversations, but everyone's trying to move the digital or virtualize that. It's not as easy as just saying, we did it here, we do it there. There is a convergence and some sort of translation as new roles, as new responsibilities, new kinds of behaviors and decision-making that goes on in the physical and digital worlds that have to then come together and get reimagined. So what's your take on all this because this is not so much about events, but although that's kind of prime time problem, zooming in is not the answer, it's a streaming video. How do you replicate the value of physical into the business value in digital? It's not a one-to-one. So it's quite possible that we might look back on this event, the COVID-19 experience, we might look back at it in five or 10 years and say, that was simply a foreshadowing of the importance of making sure that our physical environment is appropriately secured and private. And what I mean is that with the rapid introduction of internet or things technologies into the physical world, we're going to have a whole lot of dependencies on the thing, inconveniences, dependencies, inconveniences on things that instrument our physical space, our door locks, our automobiles paths, our temperatures, color, height, lots of things that instrument the physical space. And so there's going to be a whole lot of data that's generated in that cyber, in that physical domain, increasingly in the future and we're going to become dependent upon it. Well, what happens if for what a reason in the future, that's massively disrupted? So all of a sudden we have a massive disruption in the physical space, just like we're experiencing now with COVID-19. So again, that's why it makes sense now to start your planning now with making sure that your safety and reliability controls in the physical domain are up to the same level of security and privacy as the things in your IT domain. And it highlights what's where the value is too and it's the transformation. I was just reading an article around spatial economics around distance, not being together. That's interesting on those points. You wrote a book about this. I want to get your thoughts because the cyber internet or digital or virtualization of physical to digital, whether it's events or actual equipment, is causing people to rethink architectures. You mentioned a few of them. What's the state-of-the-art thinking around someone who has the plan for this? Again, it's complex. It's not just creating a gateway or a physical abstraction layer of software between two worlds. There's almost a blending or a convergence here. What's your thoughts on what's the state-of-the-art thinking on this area? Yeah, my book that I and a number of very esteemed colleagues contributed to. What we said is that it's time to start treating cybersecurity like a science. Let's not pretend it's a dark art that we had to relearn every couple years. And what we said in the digital Big Bang is that humankind started flourishing once we admitted our ignorance and ultimately our ignorance in the physical world and discovered or invented, if you're right word, the disciplines of physics and chemistry. And once we recognized that our physical world was driven by those scientific disciplines, we started flourishing, right? The scientific age led to lots of things, whether it'd be transportation, health care or lots of other things improved for quality of life. Well, if you fast forward 14 billion years back to that cosmic Big Bang, which was driven by physics, 50 years ago or so, we had a digital Big Bang where there was a massive explosion of bits with the invention of the internet. And what we argued in the book is that let's start treating cybersecurity like a science. What are the scientific principles that we ought to write down and follow ruthlessly so we can thrive in the digital Big Bang, in the digital age? And one more point, if you don't mind, what we noted is that the internet was invented to do two things. One, connect more people or machines than ever imagined. And two, do so at speeds that were never imagined. So the internet is optimized around speed and connectivity. So if that's the case and maybe a fundamental premise of cybersecurity science is make sure that your cybersecurity solutions are optimized around those same two things that the cyber domains are optimized around, speed and integration. And from there, you can build on more and more complex scientific principles if you focus on those fundamental things of speed and integration. Yeah, that's awesome, great insight there, awesome. I want to just throw in while you had the internet history lesson down there. Also, what was interesting was a very decentralization concept. How does that factor in your opinion to some of the security paradigms? Does that help or hurt? Or does it create opportunities for more secure? Or does it give the actors an advantage? Yeah, I love your questions. It's a very informed question and it gives me a good segue to answer in the way you know it should be answered. By definition, the distributing nature of the internet means it's an inherently survivable system, which is a wonderful thing to have for a critical infrastructure like that. If one piece goes down, the whole thing doesn't go down. It's kind of like the power grid, the US electrical power grid. There's too many people who say the grid will go down. Well, that's just not a practical thing. It's not a reality thing. The grid's broken up into three major grids and there's fabulous strategies and implementations of diversification to allow the grid to fail safely. So it's not catastrophic. The internet's the same thing. So like I was saying before, we ought to base cybersecurity around a similar principle that a catastrophic failure in one part of your cyber security architecture shouldn't result in cascading across your whole architecture. So again, we need to borrow some lessons from history. And I think you bring up a good one that the internet was built on survivability. So our cybersecurity strategies need to be the same. One of the ways you do that, so that's all great theory. But one of the ways you do that, of course, is by making your cybersecurity solutions so that they're very well integrated. They connect with each other so that speaking in cartoon language, one unit can say, I'm about to fail, help me out. And another part of your architecture can pick up a slack and give you some more robust security. And that's what a connected, integrated cybersecurity architecture can do for you. Yeah, it's really fascinating insight and I think resiliency and scale are two things I think are going to be a big wave. It's going to be added into the transformations that are going on now. It's very interesting. Phil, great conversation. I could do a whole hour with you. We do officially a virtual panel, virtualize our own event here. Keynote speech, thanks so much for your insight. One of the things I want to get your thoughts on is something that I've been really thinking a lot lately and gathering perspectives. And that is on biosecurity. And I say biosecurity, I'm only referring to COVID-19 as a virus, as biology involved, started in a lab or some people debate all that, whether it's true or not. But that's what people work on in the biology world, but it spreads virally, like malware and has a similar metaphor to cybersecurity. So we're seeing conversations starting to happen in Washington, DC and Silicon Valley and some of my circles around if biology is a weapon or it's a tool, like open source software could be a tool for spreading cybersecurity trojans or other things and techniques like malware, spearfishing, all these things are techniques that could be deployed metaphorically to viral distribution of biohazard or bio warfare, if you will. Will it look the same? And how do you defend against the next COVID-19? This is what average Americans are seeing the impact of the economy with the shelter in place, is that what if it happens again? And how do we prevent it? And so a lot of people are thinking about this. What is your thoughts? Because it kind of feels the same way as cybersecurity. You got to see it early. You got to know what's going on. You got to identify it. You got to respond to it. Time to closure, contain. Similar concepts, what's your thoughts on biosecurity? With all due respect to the bio community, let me make a quick analogy to the cybersecurity strategy, right? Cybersecurity strategy starts with, well, at least start as an attacker. So parts of my previous career and authorized to have the opportunity to help develop tools that are very, very precisely targeted against foreign adversaries. And that's a harder job than you think. And I think the same is true of anyone of a natural born or a custom buyer virus that not just any virus has the capability to do a lot of harm to a lot of people. So it doesn't mean that you can sit back and say, since it's hard, it will never happen. You need to take proactive measures to look for evidence of a compromise, whether it's a cyber virus or otherwise, you have to actively look for that. You have to harden yourself to make sure you're not susceptible to it. And once you detect one, you need to make sure you have the ability to do segmentation or quarantine very rapidly, very, very effectively, right? So in the cybersecurity community, of course, the fundamental strategy is about segmentation. You keep different types of things separate that don't need to interact. And then if you do have a compromise, not everything's compromised. And then lastly, if you want to gradually bring things back up to a recover, you can do so with small chunks. I think it's a great analogy. Segmentation is a good analogy to I think what the nation is trying to do right now by quarantining and gradually reopening up things in segments. And as you mentioned earlier, some of the other techniques are very, very similar. You want to have good visibility of where you're at risk. And then you can automatically do in detect and then implement some mitigations based on that good visibility. So I agree with you that it turns out that the cybersecurity strategies might have a whole lot in common with bio hazard strategy. It's interesting site reliability engineers, which is the term that Google coined when they built out their large scale cloud has become a practice. That kind of mindset combined with some of the things that you're saying the cybersecurity mindset seemed to fit this at scale problem space. And I might be an alarmist, but I personally believe that we've been having a digital war for many, many years now. And I think that troops aren't landing, but it's certainly digital troops. And I think that we as a country and global state and global society have to start thinking about these kinds of things where a virus could impact the United States, shut down the economy, devastating impact. So I think wars can be digital. And so I might be an alarmist and they can spear at us, but I think that, you know, thinking about it and actually talking about it might be a good thing. So appreciate your insights there, Phil, appreciate that. One of the point that might be interesting, a few years back, I was doing some research with a national lab and we're looking for novel cybersecurity analytics. And we hired some folks who worked in the biology, the biomedical community who were studying bio viruses at the time. And it was in recognition that there was a lot of commonality between those who are doing cybersecurity analytics and those who are doing bio biology or biomedical type analytics. And there was a lot of good cross-fertilization between our teams. And it kind of helps you bring up one more, there's one more point, which is what we need to do in cybersecurity in general is have more diversity of workforces, right? And I don't mean just the traditional but important diversities of sex or color, but diversity of experiences, right? Some of the best people I've worked with in the cyber analytics field weren't computer science trained people. And that's because they came in problems differently with a different background. So one of the things that's really important to our field at large, and of course the company, my company, Fortinet is to massively increase the amount of cybersecurity training that's available to people, not just the computer scientists, the world of the engineers, but people in other areas as well, the other degree to non-greed people. And with that higher level of cybersecurity training available to a more diverse community, not only can we solve the problem of numbers, we don't have enough cybersecurity people, but we can actually increase our ability to defend against these things by have more greater diversity of thought and experience. You know, that's such a great point. I think I just put an exclamation point on that. I get that question all the time on the skills gap is, should I study computer science? And I'm like, actually, if you can solve problems, that's a good thing. But really diversity is a wonderful thing in the age of unlimited compute power because traditionally diversity, whether it was protocol diversity or technical diversity or human makeup, tend to slow things down, but you get higher quality. So that's a generalization, but you get the point. Diversity does bring quality. And if you're doing a data science, you don't want to have a blind spot and not have enough data. So having a good diverse data set is a wonderful thing. You're going to a whole nother level saying bringing diversely skill sets to the table because the problems are diverse. Is that what you're getting at? It is. And in fact, it's one of our, I'll say our platforms that we're talking about during the COVID-19 crisis, which is perhaps we can all make ourselves a little bit better by taking some time out since we're not commuting, taking some time out and doing a little bit more online training where you can either improve your current set of cybersecurity skills and knowledge or be introduced to them for the first time. And so there's some wonderful Fortnite training available that can allow both the brand new folks to the field or the intermediate level folks of the field to become higher level experts. It's an opportunity for all of us to get better. Rather than spending that extra hour on the road every day, why don't we take at least 30 of those 60 minutes of former commute time and use it to do some online cybersecurity training? Phil, final question for your great insight, great conversation. As the world and your friends, my friends, people we don't know, other members of society as they start to realize that the virtualization of life is happening, this intersection, this convergence. What general advice would you have for someone just from a mental model or mindset standpoint to alleviate any anxiety or change that certainly will be happening? To how they can better themselves in their life? Is it thinking more about the experiences? Is it more learning? How would you give advice to folks out there who are going to come out of this post pandemic? Certainly it's going to be a different world. We're going to be heightened to digital and virtual. But as things become virtualized, how can someone take this and make a positive outcome out of all this? I think that the future remains bright. Earlier we talked about sci-fi, the integration of the cyber world and the physical world. That's going to provide great opportunities to make us more efficient, give us more free time, detect bad things from happening earlier and hopefully mitigating those bad things from happening earlier. So a lot of things that some people might use as scare tactics, right? Convergence and Skynet and robotics and things like that. I believe these are things that will make our lives better, not worse. Our responsibility though is talking about those things, making sure people understand that they're coming, why they're important, and make sure we're putting the right security and privacy into those things as these worlds, this physical world and the soccer worlds converge. I think the future is bright, but we still have some work to do in terms of making sure we're doing things at very high speeds, that there's no delay in the cyber security we put on top of these applications and make sure that we have very, very well integrated solutions that don't cause things to become more complex, but in fact make things easier to do. Certainly the winds of change and the big waves of the transformations happening, I guess I was just summarized by saying is to make it a headwind, I mean tailwind, not a headwind. Make it work for you. Swing with the tide, not against it. Bill, thank you so much for your insights. I really appreciate this cube conversation, remote interview, I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, talking about cyber security and the fundamentals of understanding what's going on in this new virtual world that we're living in, to being virtualized. As we get back to work and as things start to evolve further back to normal, the at scale problems and opportunities are there. And of course the cube's bringing it to you here remotely. From our studio, I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Good job.


What's up guys and welcome to trending updates up our SPM boys. Now unto the trending news today is Manzi Waqibera who is now advising Peter Mirako Baby on how to spend his money. Now of course we all know Peter Mirako Baby was a flauntina recid of an amount of money that he had spent in a club. Mirako Baby ali kwa meza kutumia 87,000 Kenyan shillings in a tata club. Ali eka me post ali kwa meza kut post recid iya club pali. Aka andi kwa pali kujibamba na mabesti nikitu ya kufanya ujama. Na iyo nikitu ali kwa meza kuliza bibi ake karoka tru because karoka tru had zade babe seriously. Kuyu hakumbuki tukonam tata. That was a karoka tru reaction on Peter Mirako Baby spending 87,000 Kenyan shillings in a club. Lakin isasa Manzi Waqibera meza kujana meseji on how to show Mirako Baby vila meza kutumia pesa zake. Manzi Waqibera meza kumwambia, invest your money, keshouta hanzakulia kwa YouTube, but at least you've seen the nonsense most celebrities do. Badae hanzakulia, I wish to get opportunities and invest my money for a better tomorrow. That is Manzi Waqibera meseji to Mirako Baby, lakin ina e kwa Mirako Baby anawuliza. Ini kitukulia kukasiriki ya nipuji bamba tunamabeshte. Karoka tru ali eza kusema lakini Kenyans, Simta Daddy ina wevu. Anyway, mkaskie zibaya uko kwenu. Of course this is after Kenyans reacted to that receipt of Mirako Baby. Mirako Baby aka mwambia niki not wengi wa watu weni utusiana wanakwanga wame wa shuwa hotspot. That was Mirako Baby in response to karoka tru. Lakin itu wanbia, what do you think about Mirako Baby spending 87 Kenyans shillings ina club and also Manzi Waqibera keza kumpa advice of pale. Nimrod nika li sema, now we got a receipt just in case we see a pay bill flying around. Netani nimrod anongelia wa sani kweka pay bill oeza kusedua katiwa kuna shida. Lafutumbili anasema, kuna boiwangu flani piya na jua kuhunda easy receipt. Jua kamaan indike tule receipti, mezaf zingineza wa ju. Dumbili tuanbia, but let us know down on the comments section but in the meantime, keep it trendy updates, hapa SPM buzz.


Hello everyone, so I'm just going to make this video to share with you with some things I've learnt during my time at Saxon for the past two years. I've obviously learnt so much more than this, but got to keep it short. So the first thing I have learnt is that the relationship between the students and the teachers is very different to what I'm used to in Australia.  So this environment creates this collaborative thinking and process between the students and the teachers and it's so much better to learn that way and it allows you to work collaboratively and it's just so beautiful and at the start of the year you get given a student career counsellor and this person is there for you for the whole four years to help you develop as a professional but also if you have questions regarding the study or regarding something personal they're always there for you, they're always welcome you with open arms and it's just so beautiful. So I had to learn to adapt to that and be like it's okay if I don't know something but I can share my opinion and with that opinion it creates a discussion in the group and that's how you learn. So that's what I have learnt and I've also learnt that practical classes are really good so in Australia I was very theory based I think I just hit the books I learnt and that to me I did a lot of research I wrote a lot of things I studied a lot from the books but here at SACCHON they teach you the theory but the theory is directly correlated to what you do in the practical classes and that makes you even understand it better and there's no use of you knowing all the theory but then not be able to put it into practice so that SACCHON has really nailed that just the perfect balance between practical and theory and another thing I've learnt is that I have to be more confident it's very important to be confident you guys should be confident because being accepted into this degree is not nothing which means you can do it you can do it you have to send your mind to it you can do it even in like a practical exam a teacher may ask you so why you're doing it it's not them questioning you that you're doing it wrong it's them asking you to explain why you're doing it because you know but sometimes I know I was I wasn't very confident I got very nervous and yeah just see how far I've come since the beginning and now I think I've grown in confidence quite a lot so be confident you guys as well and I've learnt a lot from my placement experience so in the first year you're already good to go on a three week placement and I was at this child care centre for very disabled children and these children will be dropped off in the morning by a bus and be picked up in the afternoon to go back home and they are they spend a day at this centre in they're about groups of five children depending on how high need they are I was with this placement I was particularly with the really high medical need children so there was in that room were four children five children and there was one nurse in the room and then one kind of person that looks after the group for the whole day with the food and the activities and things like that but the physio comes in and helps stretch out the muscles to avoid contractures and mobilize their joints and get them to walk I did some hydro therapy which was awesome I went into the pool with the children and it was just so beautiful to see what you could do you had to work collaboratively with an occupational therapist the nurses sometimes the rehabilitation doctor would come which was really cool to see you could see them make new wheelchairs for them so that adjusted to that posture which is so cool to see and splints they made splints so I was able to see that as well so it was a big learning curve for me and just to see how much a collaborative team with physios occupational therapists speech therapists doctors and nurses how much you can achieve for these children and although they might not get better you're going to slow down the deterioration process and allow them to live the most comfortable life that they can which is so important so I'm so grateful for that experience so thank you for listening and I'll see you in the next video