Oh, oh, is that a Minecraft villager? Ah. What's up, everyone? So today we got something new for y'all, right? We got some heat. We're going to try to find some bootleg. Like, what do you want to call it? Like, we're going to start like a new series where we shop with you guys on the video. And then, like, it depends on what character. We're going to do, like, different character, for example. Today we're going to do Skibbity Toilet, since it's popular, it's popping, you know? And then the next one could be like a Grimace or like a Huggy Wuggy. Rainbow Friends, Chris Thomas. I don't know all of them. Are you guys going to see what they got? Yeah, you guys could tell us what you guys want to see next. And then we'll do another video where we get the items and we unbox them. We'll do a giveaway once we get the item. So, yeah. All right, so first we're going to start off right here with some Skibbity Toilet stuff. So look what they got. All right, all right. Wait, hold on. Go click on that first. What is this? Oh, some Legos? It's like some bootleg Legos. Oh, they have the, see, that's the Stereo Man? What's it called? The camera? That's a TV Man, bro. TV Man, Stereo Man. It's the Titan Speaker. Stereo Man. Stereo Man. All right, and also let us know which ones you guys think are cool so we can add them to our cart and, you know, we'll probably give them one out, too. That one was hard to make, though.  All right, so we got a bunch of stickers. Oh, plushies? Awesome. Oh, and they got a video, too. Go click on that. Oh, that looks dope. Hey. They got a little plushie, Speaker Man, Titan Speaker Man. For sure, we're going to have to get at least two of these. Let us know which one you guys think is the coolest one. We'll probably end up giving away one of these plushies also. Is it Security Cameraman, or will it? I don't know the name. It's just Cameraman, bro. Is it Cameraman? Oh, I sure as butt. What? OK. That one, the one in the bag. Yeah, I want the one with the big ears. That one, it looks like a turd with ears. I don't know. It looks funny to me, man. All right, so for sure, we'll add this into the cart. All right, so we added this into our cart. We're definitely going to get this one. That's one of many that we're going to get so far. All right, let's see what else they got. Oh, they got some keychains. Oh, wait, they got them for cheaper right there. Oh, OK, I'm taking this out. This one, take the other one off. We're getting ripped out. Oh, is that a Minecraft villager? Villager toilet? Oh, that one looks funny, too. Oh, that zombie one looks dope. All right, but we're going to get this one. Is that one for sure? All right, we're going to add that one for sure, man. Let's see what else they got over here. Those keychains? Wait, wait, wait. I kind of want a keychain low key. This one? Yeah, those right there. Some keychains? Be dope. Oh, they do look pretty nice. Look at this. Yo, give me that one. Which one?  All right. Yeah, toilet, man. Almost sold out, dude. The Legos are cool.  I don't know, man. You really want to destroy them? I want to set them on fire. He's been telling everybody that he was to destroy them.  Whose man is this, bro? Oh, look at this. And they got double plungers. Oh, bro, that's the ultimate finisher. That's hilarious, man. Oh, I thought it was Waluigi. Dude, that one looks crazy. What? Oh, is it your whole one? Oh, you have a whole toilet? Oh, he bound from the back. Bro, has he come out in the videos yet? I think I've seen him in the clip, but I haven't seen like the exact video. Like your full man, too? Yeah, bro. Oh, they even got rainbow friends. All rainbow friends go click on that. That looks pretty dope. I think next time we're going to go for rainbow friends, bro. Oh, they got bluey, green, red. They got everybody orange, purple. Oh, these are pretty sick. Yeah, those are pretty dope. Right, so they got everything on here, guys. Oh, little baby grimm. Oh, baby grimm, grimm. I think we're good for today, though. Yeah, yeah, we did add like two, three things. Let us know what things you guys seen on here that caught your attention or your eye will add it to the card as well. And like I said, we'll do a giveaway once we do the videos with them. And let us know what other character you guys would like to see, and then we'll buy some stuff from them, too. Yeah, so if you guys want to see more of this, make sure you guys press like, subscribe, comment, all that. And we'll bring you some more of these, because I think these videos are fun, all right? So. Yeah, and we want to do a little something different, too, on the channel. That's why we decided to do this. Yeah. All right, y'all, that's it. See you guys later. All right, peace.


To the chat room, and we're gonna get chatty. Typeety, typeety, typeety, typeety. Okay, so here's what's gonna happen. Sean Hollister from CNET is going to pop in here any minute now, and join us to talk about stuff. So we'll keep an eye on that. Oh, there he is. It's like I summoned him. Beetlejuice. Hey, here's a video. All right. Hey, Sean. Hey, how's it going? Is it too loud in the background? No, it's not too bad. Great, great. If you want to leave the video on, you can, or you can turn it off. It's up to you. It's up to you. If it's not too distracting, I'm just in the CNET breaker room right now. Probably might be in a different position. Perfect. I like the tree. Oh, look at that. Oh, made some changes. That's, what's the name of that conference room, Veronica? Magma. Magma. That's magma. Wow. It's also have a seat over in this way by the window. That's not too bright. Yeah. Maybe something like this. No, it all looks good. Better than expected. Let me grab my bag. Better than expected. We're live, but are we live live? We are live live, yes. Live live, excellent. Hello, everybody. Hence the live part. Does say that at the corner of my screen too. Give away. Good. I'm glad it alerted you. I was kind of counting on that. All right, so if you're ready, we're ready. Absolutely. Here we, oh, senior. Okay, got it. Here we go. Daily Tech News Show is powered by its audience, not outside organizations. To find out how you can help power the show, visit dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, June 26th, 2017. I'm Tom Merritt joining me as she does most Mondays. Ms. Veronica Belmont, host of IRL, the new podcast from Mozilla. How, how goes it to Veronica? I feel like I have a laugh track in the background. Oh my God. That's good. Performed before a live studio audience. Yeah, no, it's good. We have Sean Hollister, senior editor from CNET joining us today as well, because we wanted to talk about ARKit, which you wrote up, Sean, but then they also released the new Super NES, which I know you're super excited about. Yep, I've been working on that story down to the minute right now. It's been great. Excellent. Well, thanks for taking the time to join us. Let's get right to a few tech things you should know about. Waymo has partnered with Avis to store and service its fleet of autonomous minivans in Phoenix, Arizona. Avis owns the Zipcar car sharing service. It'll probably be part of that. Not to be outdone. Bloomberg reports documents filed with the Department of Motor Vehicles indicate that it hurts as Donlan fleet management system will lease six Lexus RX, RX 450H sport utility vehicles to Apple for self-driving car tests. So the car rental companies are aligning with their major technological partners as we speak. It's bananas. It feels like it's really happening. It's happening very quickly. Oh my God, it's happening. A warning advisory on the Debian.org mailing list highlighted a microcode bug where hyperthreading is enabled on Intel Skylake and Kaby Lake processors. The bug could result in data corruption and data loss and disabling of hyperthreading is recommended until a UEFI and BIOS update is issued. Yeah. This probably won't affect a lot of people because you may not do any processing that allows hyperthreading. You may not even have a Skylake or Kaby Lake processor. But if you do, it's something that you should know about. Now, here are some more top stories. YouTube's uptime iOS app, which lets you watch videos with friends over the internet, is now open to all users. No invite needed. Yours can make comments and emoji reactions while they watch together. Friends who can't watch in real time can rewatch later and see the reactions comments play out in real time as if they were there with their friends even though they're not. Notably, Sparkles, which you get by tapping the screen will only be shown in real time. That's how you know you've got real friends is if you see their Sparkles. App came out of Google's Area 120, which is an experimental lab that Google runs just to come up with ideas like this. I'm curious if either one of you will ever do this. The watch video with friends? I don't really need to do that. I feel like I'm kind of always watching videos with my friends anyway on Twitter. So that's, yeah, I'm not sure if I really need this, but it might be fun to try. I'd probably try it out too. What about you, Sean? Friends, who needs friends? I've got all the videos to keep me company. Work out just fine. You don't need to watch videos with friends. You've got the videos. That's a good point. Yes, that's how it works. Nintendo's Super NES Classic Edition launches September 29th. The miniature console plays games over HDMI using two wired controllers. It will come with 21 classic games, including Donkey Kong Country, Final Fantasy III, The Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past, Star Fox, and Star Fox II, and of course, Super Mario World and Super Mario Kart. Europeans get a sleek curved Japanese Super Famicom design while the US gets the purple boxy Super NES for $80. So I know Star Fox II caught your eye, Sean. Yeah, I think my tweet this morning was just literally Star Fox II and Capital Characters with a link to Nintendo's post because that game never came out. It's an SNES game that was never released. Nobody's gotten to play it except for some hacked ROM dumps from a while back. And now Nintendo says, hey, nostalgic gamers, you can play a game that's never been seen before on our console. And I'm just wondering, how are they gonna possibly make enough of this? Yeah, the cool thing about this is not just putting out the nostalgia bit, which they'll do well with as we have seen, but then giving you a little bit of an extra there. I mean, not every console is gonna have that level of an extra, but a good move by Nintendo. That's a good point. It's like it's new, but it's old at the same time. I like that. Yeah. My question here is about the availability though.  So with the NES Classic, they didn't, they discontinued it after people were lighted up the door to try and get these things. They said, no, we're not gonna make any more. Yeah, they're trying very hard to make enough switches. They don't really want a shortage of switches, but my guess is they forecast a certain number of these Super NES Classics and when they're done selling them, these they don't seem to care about continuing to make. Just gonna get some long lines then, long, long lines. You're not into this, huh? Yeah, sure. I'm excited about it. I don't need another gaming console. I think I probably have an NES sitting around in my garage somewhere. It's small. I'm good. Doesn't take up a lot of room. All right. Let's move on to a less fun topic. The Five Eyes, New Zealand, Canada, the UK, US and Australia are meeting in Ottawa this week to discuss protecting borders and combatting terrorism. That's what they do. Sunday, however, Australia announced it wants to discuss pushing tech companies to give governments more access to secure communications by terrorists. Australian Attorney General George Brandeis and also a senator said the discussions will focus on the need to get service providers to ensure reasonable assistance is provided to law enforcement and security agencies. There's not much new to discuss here. This is the same thing as before with countries, and this case, Australia, saying we would like to have access to these conversations and companies saying, well, we can give you two things, the system as it is now, or we can weaken encryption for everybody but the bad guys, and they will go use something else and you still won't get to listen to their conversations. Yeah, I don't see how there's really a good medium here. Yeah, and the conversation continues as these guys go on. But a lot of times the question is, okay, fine, tech companies, if the reality is that math is math and you can't outlaw math, what are you going to do to help combat terrorism? And we actually have an answer for that today. Which is what? Your next story. Monday, Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, and YouTube announced the Global Internet Forum to Counterterrorism with the purpose of making host to consumer services hostile to extremists. It says it hopes to foster cooperation with smaller tech companies, civil groups, academics, and governments. A posting on Twitter's blog outlined technological goals like the shared internet hash database, research goals, and knowledge sharing about best practices including counter speech. So yeah, I mean, this is a different thing. This is not about surveillance. This is about actually going out and saying how can we stop people from becoming extremists? How do we stop extremists from getting their message out to potential recruits? And at least my own personal opinion and the opinion of others is this is going to do more to combat extremism because you stop it at the source. You stop it before people get involved in it. Sean, we talked about this a lot less. Where did you draw the line, though?  How are they going to figure out where that is? It's an important discussion to debate because I think we all can look at certain speech and the majority of us agree, yeah, that's recruitment. That is beyond the pale. But where is it just news to show something and where is it inducement to show something? Exactly. And Veronica, you were saying we talked about this before. Yeah, we talked about this last Monday. Actually, all the steps that Facebook in particular is taking to kind of work around these issues and figure out new solutions. Yeah, in my opinion, you have to set that bar pretty far to the side. But you can do a lot to get people to agree like, hey, you scream fire in a crowded theater, right? That is one of the classic limits of free speech. So we need to have those conversations about what is allowed here. But I do think not only blocking extremist content but more importantly, redirecting, which is something that Big Saw Outfit does, I think is extremely important to say, hey, even if you see these recruitment videos, here's why you shouldn't pay attention to that message. Like having a competing positive message is super important. Yeah, that feels like more of a solution to me overall than a lot of the other technological perhaps solutions that we've heard about in the past. Like really getting into the psychology of it and working it from that angle instead of just trying to, you know, blanket blocking everything they see. I'm definitely glad that they're working together on this. To hear that there's this coalition to do this instead of just companies individually deciding what's right or wrong. I think that's a good idea. Finally, a study published in the Information Technologies and International Development Journal examined whether increased connectivity in sub-Saharan Africa has led to increased digital creation.  They use domain name registration as a measure of like how many websites are being created in sub-Saharan Africa. The study used academic articles as its measure of comparisons. The idea was, hey, the world should have a more even distribution of digital content now because connectivity has outpaced the spread of academic institutions in Africa. So academic institutions are about the same as they used to be, but connectivity is way up. Let's compare academic papers to digital creation and see if there's a difference. Well, the study found that actually academic articles were more evenly spread than digital content, which implies that connectivity is a necessary but not sufficient condition for creating content. And so this goes to some of the criticisms. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg have sort of had a public back and forth about you can't just fly planes with connections over Africa and call the problem solved. You have to provide creation of income. You have to provide jobs and you have to provide education as well. Yeah, but I think connectivity though is still a major component of that. And in so many places, the connectivity is still so poor or access to something like broadband, which obviously makes it even easier. Or at the bare minimum, having phone connectivity and having easy access to the internet via cell service I think is still like a huge factor in this. But yeah, having the... I guess I'm not really sure I understand the academic paper situation here. Can you kind of dive into that a little bit more? I don't understand what they're comparing. The idea is to say, okay, educational institutions have stayed pretty steady. Let's use that as our control group. What do they mean by steady? We haven't had a huge increase in the amount of education relatively huge increase in connectivity. So the different numbers of academic institutions between now and 10 years ago is not nearly an amount of growth comparable to the amount of connectivity that over 10, like 10 years ago there was almost no connectivity. Now there's more than 50% connectivity and academic institutions are relatively a solid line there. Okay, so they're the control essentially. Exactly. So you say, okay, let's look. Academic papers have distributed this much from African sources. How much has digital content creation increased? And they found that even though connectivity has gone way up, digital content creation has not been spread evenly whereas academic papers are spread more evenly implying that the connectivity has not caused a boost in software development, website creation, et cetera. Okay, interesting. I understand that a little better now. Yeah. And again, the paper's whole point is not to say connectivity is bad. It's to say, hey, you can't just turn on the internet and then walk away and go, great, problem solved. Problem solved. Sean, do you have any thoughts on this? I have a big fan of Universal Internet for everybody. I think it should be a basic human right because I think it is a prerequisite. But it is fascinating to me that it's not enough by itself. Yeah, you have to come in with incubators, which there are more of them now. Nigeria and Kenya particularly have some pretty vibrant startup scenes. Funding. Yeah, funding all over the place. More VCs, not just coming in from outside of countries but coming from within countries as well and funds being created. So the steps are happening. It's not to say they're not. Hey, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in just about five minutes to help keep you up, if you feel like, man, I fall behind, go subscribe to Daily Tech Headlines, dailytechheadlines.com. It'll keep you up to date as a podcast, as an Amazon Echo Flash Briefing, or on the app at anchor.fm. And that is a look at our top stories. All right, so a couple of articles out there today about ARKit, one of which written by our fine guest, Sean Hollister. ARKit, of course, introduced to WWDC. Currently, just uses one camera, the primary camera on your iPhone. It's coming in iOS 11. So the only way you can use it right now is in iOS 11 beta. Even on the 6s plus and the 7 plus, where you have two cameras, it's only making use of one at the moment. They say eventually they will make use of the other one. But it's doing distance measuring in a way that is really impressive. And in fact, a couple of apps have been released. One by Patrick Balestra, which shows the ability to just use your phone and tap on a couple of points and be able to tell how far apart they are. And another one using a skewmorphic measuring tape that appears in augmented reality. That one's from Lawn Labs. You can get the first one at arueller.download and the one with the skewmorphic measuring tape at armeasure.com. These are pretty impressive, Sean. Considering that you don't have to buy a project Tango device, you don't have to put sensors out, it's just using the phone. That's exactly what I've been saying. First, a correction of something I actually have to correct in my article. It's only the 7 plus that has two cameras. The 6s plus does not have two cameras. That was something that I had to correct. I had to correct it myself in my CNET piece. It's been up as a mistake for a little while. But yes, this fact that it's just a single camera is a big deal. A lot of people are like, well, augmented reality's been around for a while with a single camera. You've got Pokemon Go. You've got apps that'll layer on top of the world, destinations, restaurant ratings, things like that. But they were very specialized things, things that companies had to build from the ground up. Specifically, they had to say, I want to build it up every reality app. They had to figure out how to make it work. Even when they did, it wasn't super accurate. Now, Apple has come along with these tools you've used and that anybody can theoretically go out and build an app that goes into the same app store that everybody else uses for these iPhones with the same phone you've already got in your pocket most likely, where you're going to get next year when you upgrade. This is a breadth of augmented reality potential that we haven't seen before. Because Google with its Tango phones, we have to have the specialized sensors in the phones. You've got to have a picture phone. They also have a special section of the app store. It's not just anybody who makes one of those things. It's not just anybody who can use those. Apple comes out here with this technique where now you can just anybody with an iPhone do these things. It is different in that fundamental way that you have the tools and you have to install this. I think the impressive thing, Veronica, is that it all sounded good on stage at WWDC and they had a lovely demo, but we're seeing people actually making things now that look like they really work. Yeah, and frankly, this is like, I can't tell you the number of times I needed to measure something. And I was like, oh, if only there was a good app on my phone that I could measure something. This is the perfect use case for that. I'm actually really excited. I know these are just demos of the tech and not necessarily the only application of this technology that's going to exist, but it's a good one to start with. That's for sure. The precision that you can use it on and the usability, like as Sean was saying, is really nice. Yeah, Sean, it reminds me of in the early days of the App Store when the level app came out and took advantage of the accelerometer, right? It's something where it's like, sure, it's kind of limited, but it's an impressive display of what this technology can do. I think it's very much like that. I think what the project Tango folks, the Google Project Tango folks always like to say, is they see this like GPS. They see this being this fundamental technology that's going to exist in every phone because it's going to be so powerful to have positioning inside of the building, to have, look at something, an overlay or ruler on top of it, that we should all have this in the future. They thought that meant adding additional sensors, but apparently, some don't need ridiculous precision. Apparently it's not. And so what's really going to be interesting is to see what Google does, because now that Apple has kind of leapfrogged them here, with this technology that just measures the distance between points that's using the camera. It's machine learning here, computer vision. It's going to be interesting to see if Google has anything to say about that. Are they going to put out a version that only uses one camera? Or are they going to be able to get, is this going to be an enabler for them and that it's kind of doing their marketing for them and then they can sell more companies on the sensors? I'm not sure. Yeah, and I'm sure there will be limits to what ARKit can do that will come out, especially once iOS 11 is out for everybody. And I'm sure Google will be one of the first to point out those limits. But one of the big benefits of it is that you can use the ARKit apps on millions of phones. As a developer, your app can go onto millions of phones right now. Nobody has to go out and buy a new phone to take advantage of it, and that's huge. And I would expect Google to come out with something similar, because then you can be on hundreds and hundreds of millions of phones if it works on Android. Veronica, are you looking forward to trying this out? Yeah, I really am. I've been very bullish on AR as a technology. I think there's going to be a lot of really cool applications and having it work so seamlessly on iOS devices I think is going to be a huge game changer for the industry as a whole, especially if developers have such ease of use in creating applications for it. You know, if you get people excited about developing for the platform and for creating AR applications, and I think we're going to see a huge explosion of different kinds of experimental programs, and applications of this technology, not literal software applications. But I think the level example you gave was a hit the nail right on the head. I think that was a really good example of how you can use the technology inside of our mobile devices for an external application that is really functional and works really nicely. And I think we're just going to see a lot more of that kind of stuff out there. Do we think the iPhone will take away the tape in the same way that it's rolled up all these other devices? Do we stop carrying around tape measures? Is that something where you don't even buy one? Maybe. I think maybe for like, pretty simple and laid back kind of things, but I think like a serious more home repair kind of stuff, maybe not yet anyway. Also, it won't replace hammers to hit the nail on the head. You can level, you can measure, but you're not going to... Depends on how angry you get at it. Depends on how angry. Probably should. Hey, Sean Hollister. Thanks so much for joining us, man. I appreciate you taking the time out of it, but I know it's a busy day. Any last thoughts before we say goodbye? No, no, I'm good. Thanks very much for having me and looking forward to doing it again soon. Go find his article. We'll have a link in the show notes at DailyTechNewShow.com or just go to CNET.com and take a look. And Sean, if they want to keep up with what you're doing, where should they go and follow you online? You can do Starfire 2258 on Twitter. Yes, that is my handle. S-T-A-R-F-I-R-E 2258. Or CNET.com. That'll work just fine. All right. Thanks again, Sean. Appreciate it. Len, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit as well. You can submit stories and vote on them at DailyTechNewShow.Reddit.com. Let's take a quick break and check in with Chris Christensen, who has a little info about how that call spoofer that you may have heard about, who got caught in Florida, got caught thanks to the travel industry. This is Chris Christensen from Amateur Traveler with another tech in Travel Minute. I don't know if you've gotten any of these robo-calls recently where you're getting a call and it's from your area code and your same prefix. And it's somebody claiming to be TripAdvisor, Expedia, Hilton, Marriott, whatever. There's a lot of them in the travel space. There's other things that are going on with this as well. But a Florida resident was recently fined $120 million for doing these. They need 100 million spoofed robo-calls. And the interesting thing about that is it is not only in the U.S. annoying. It is also illegal. It's against the Truth in Color ID Act. And the interesting thing about this story is that this was not tracked down by the FBI or somebody else as you might think, but it was tracked down by one of those travel companies. In this case, TripAdvisor had gotten enough complaints from their customers that they did the homework to figure out who these calls were coming from. So kudos to TripAdvisor and also for whoever wrote the legislation that if you spoof your caller ID at least in the U.S., that's illegal. I'm Chris Christensen from Amateur Traveler. Ah, yes. All the spoofers in Florida now yell, run! It's TripAdvisor when they're busy spoofing. That's amazing. Thanks for sending that in, Chris. We appreciate that. Of course, go check out amateurtraveler.com. A couple of messages of the day before we're out of here. Did you hear last week, Veronica, we talked about the Charmin van that you could use an app to call in Manhattan if you needed a toilet? Oh, my God, no. It's like Uber for toilets? Oh, my God. Or as Len Peralta drew on Friday, Uber. Uber, Uber. Regarding the topic of Charmin van go, that was the actual name of it, Comey wrote in and said, Charmin also runs a website called sitorsquat.com. It shows the locations of available bathrooms on the map, color-coded by cleanliness, reported by users, and it has helped me many times. That said, the locations and comments don't seem to be updated that often. Comey says, if anyone from Yelp is listening, I think this restroom available to customers or not would be a great addition to the business info on Yelp or Foursquare. Is it not? I thought it was. I have this idea for an app. Yeah. I have this idea for an app years ago. I never built it. See? It's still, there's still time. No, there's not. You can build it in an AR. Oh. Maybe. Maybe. I'm good. I'm good. Probably not. And then I don't always share these kinds of notes because sometimes they feel self-congratulatory, but this one was to not just me, but all of us. And I think you as the audience should take a little appreciation of this because you make this show possible. Wes, who is on vacation in the mountains of New Mexico, says, it's been quite a while since I wrote in, but I recently noticed that my three-year anniversary as a patron happened in May. I can't begin to put into words the good your show has done for me personally and the world in general.  In fact, when I feel as though I'm missing something, it's usually that I've fallen a little behind on episodes. Thank you for bringing sanity to an often hyperbolic news cycle. Thank you for always having interesting and diverse experts and commentators. Thank you for making a show of genuine quality and most of all, thank you for going on this adventure and letting me go along for the ride. You are all in my thoughts and prayers. I wish you the very best at continued success and I hope the next three years are just as awesome. That's very nice. Thank you, Wes. I appreciate that. It's always nice to be nice as Gina Trapani says. Whatever. I don't think she's the first one to say it, but that's who sticks in my mind when I hear it. Thank you, Wes, and thank you everybody for joining us along the journey. It's been great. We tried to provide a little respite to just talk about tech news. If we get controversial, it's controversial about tech news because that's what we're all here to discuss. Thank you, Veronica Belmont. Of course, irlpodcast.org is the new show. Anything else to tell folks about that? Oh, out today. Yeah, you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcast. We have an RSS feed. You can do it on iTunes, Stitcher. Apparently, it's on Spotify, which is awesome. Overcast, Breaker, literally pretty much wherever you get your podcast, it is available. Yeah, so episode one, all your data are belong to us, is out today. I'm really excited about it. I got to a private investigator dug into my data on the internet.  We talked about companies who are tracking your cookies. It's an interesting episode, and I think they're just going to get better from here once now that we've found our voice and know what we're going for. So this episode is where you find out secrets about Veronica that even Veronica didn't know. Is that right? Secrets. Secrets. Secrets. Irlpodcast.org. Get the secrets. Also, not only go subscribe, but leave a review, because when you leave a review, that helps discovery. I ask for those at the end, and doubly, I would appreciate any reviews, good ones especially. I mean, your review can just go, great. But the actual leaving of it with the star rating and everything, that's what helps. Super. Yes. And thanks to everybody who supports this show by giving a little value back. We do and always have work for value model. We've never taken an advertisement. We never needed to, because you guys were there for us. Big thanks to all of you, including Growly Bear, Tim Katanzerite, and Kevin Metcalf, and many, many, many more at Patreon.com slash DTNS. Our email address is feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com. We're live Monday through Friday at 4.30 p.m. Eastern, 2030 UTC at AlphageekRadio.com and DiamondClub.tv. Come join us one of these days. Pop in the chat room from DiamondClub.tv and talk along with us. We're also at Facebook.com slash DailyTechNewShow. And our website is DailyTechNewShow.com. Back tomorrow with Patrick Beja. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at FrogPants.com. DiamondClub helps you have enjoyed this program. Now, Wynne in the chat room says, like that she's secretly a vampire hunter, but that's not a secret. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows that's in my name. Yeah, it's right there. She's at Belmont. Come on. It's right there. I wish I could have had him. All right. What do we call it? Let's see. Tales from Decrypt. Still loading for me. I bless the domains down in Africa. Oh, that's good. No, I want that. MeasurAround.com Measure twice. AR kit. Once. Five eyes you count all outlaw maths math's radius of the lost our kit our kit Mo threads mo bugs AR kit got it. Got it now.  He's there was a star Fox to Swim against extreme our kit and the Covenant and our kid of the Covenant and Covenant yeah, I got it Classic warfare so snester day There's some good titles in here today. One plus one is not illegal Math is not a crime Can't outlaw math well, you could you could outlaw math. I don't think it's a good idea though You know, I think it's limited as a profession only certain people would be taught the sacred Workings of mathematics. What's your favorite Belmont? Um, I think I like I bless the domains down in Africa personally My favorite although measure twice AR kit once is pretty good and and main topic related so I'm not I don't know I don't know what's where to go Go go fair measure twice AR kit once. I think that's your answer. I think you know it in your heart to be true Feel it, you know what to be true You're my father wait, wait, what are you really odd? Well, I forgot to level eight so now I'm levelating and that gives you more time to vote Do you want to use your rebellion on your hands? I'm a big fan of the measure twice cut once Yes a principle in in reality.  I just throw caution to win Yeah, it's called. It's called just cut regret later That's I I always measure but I always cut a little more Just a smidge because you know badly regret later I Fought the math and the math one I bought the math and the Math one start thinking a lot. I wonder if they're gonna make different versions with more games They will you yes, the answer is you that's what they have been doing Or do you mean different versions of the super NES? Yeah. Oh, yeah, they didn't last time with the NES They just put out the one with those games. That was it. I wouldn't I wouldn't count on it. You wouldn't hold your breath Well, I wouldn't do that anyway.  We'll do a little post-DTNS myth busting Yeah Not a good myth buster I mean, I guess you won't die, but I don't really want to deprive my brain of oxygen You're still they still have the domains down in Africa You like that one because of Josh Lawrence's Proclivity to sing that at karaoke. It's only winning by one though I would need it to be winning by five to change my mind. So I made it equal You have already voted for this You have voted for this multiple times disallow disallow So I guess there's gonna be a cardboard cut out of you at Nertacular Veronica Cool I would have posed for one if they had asked me instead of finding weird pictures on the internet There's a company that does that you just And they'll send you out the standee And they can scale it so if it's like the actual Veronica dimensions or maybe too expensive to ship You can maybe you do like a three-quarter size What are you seeing with that? That you're multi-dimensional.  You're standing? No Snago says Nertacular is the only time I see Veronica in real life. Well this year. It'll be the only time you see Veronica in cardboard It's gonna be cold at night there too. It's gonna be the 40s. It's not about it. It's like practically July It's been pretty cold up there in the past Hey, did you know I did the top five moments in iPhone history? No on tech Republic nice, you want to know what they were do you want to actually? Yeah, I mean you can probably guess most of them and tenigates on there the announcement of the iPhone is Sure But it's magic because I have different hair because it was before I got this haircut. Oh magic and I'm in Louisville if you believe the green screen That's cool Yeah, I've been through Louisville Have a nice river couple bridges. That's all I remember actually You need to go back It's not far from where I grew up, but we never went there as a kid. We always went to Kentucky Lake or Barclay Barclay Mm-hmm It's a pride. We went to Indianapolis, which is probably just as far Was it not as fun back then maybe Did you see the races all business? Never saw an Indianapolis 500 races that what you mean. Yeah Yeah, never did went to visit the track and did a tour and gotten a van that drove us around the track So that was kind of fun But that's all The brickyard Let's think I remember about Indianapolis. They had a really good science museum Indianapolis 500 the Speedway and I stole a towel from the Omni hotel there once I Think the statute of limitations is over on that. I was in college. I was young. I needed the towels. I Lost my place. Where was I? You were levelating No, I'm done leveling now. I'm uploading Measure twice a our kit once that is the title. Thank you all Thank you all for voting Even if we disregarded your well, it's tied so really I Guess it's host discretion at that point. We don't we don't promise to We don't promise to honor the vote. It's not how this works We just take the vote as an invite advisement. You guys are like the house of lords We we consider your vote, but it's non binding. They're They're a leftover from an earlier day. Yeah, also everyone who votes at showbot.tv wears a powdered wig At least that's how I imagine them unless you have something against lead then you can just wear a wig Fine Okay, you don't have to whisper We're not mad at you if I do Okay All right, I'll see you guys later. All right. Bye Cool now we can talk smack Sugar smacks. Mmm. We do like to talk cereal on this show. I don't like sugar. They're never good They were never good. Is that okay sound cloud just uploaded really fast I'm like suspicious Make sure it's the same side of the file size. Yeah, that's what I'm looking Do-do-do-do-do-do-do. Oh, it's right Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do Do-do-do-do Hmm. All right, da-da-da-da It's for real I wouldn't have believed it. I wouldn't have believed my eyes Powdered wigs just add water At some point at one point in my life. I was considering collecting the various breakfast cereals of the world. Oh, yeah Is there a cereal museum somewhere? I Know there's like classic cereal There's like a class a cereal restaurant in Brooklyn where they serve you unusual cereal Kellogg's cereal city USA Some battle Creek, Michigan big names of cereal city. Oh It's just about the Kellogg's brand. There's a museum of food and drink mo fad You've seen MoMA come see the mo fad, you know what they say mo fad mo fad all money Well, it's first large-scale food museum with exhibits with exhibits you can eat. Is it that just a cafeteria?   So This I guess this this this maybe that's the restaurant I was thinking of then The current exhibit is a chow making the chinese american restaurant Chow celebrates the birth and the evolution of chinese american restaurants tracing. They're nearly 170 year history Wow 170 years in the u.s Sparking conversation on immigration culture identity and what it means to be american So it's weird because so many foods that people consider to be chinese are very uniquely american Um, well a lot of u.s. Ethnic food is an adaptation of The actual food I don't think hamburgers are actually german. Are they yes, they are but it's not it's not served the same way Right like putting it between pieces Like similar to chinese food, but it's not really the same Outwardly in that it's cut and cooked in a wok, but yeah, right are like what? Um, anything that's any sauce that's day glow is not China like chinese china china chinese um fortune cookie very not chinese uh, of course the chop suey and The moogoo guy pan all that is very not chinese They cook what what's old Yeah Bak choy is not chinese broccoli. It's its own thing. It's stone vegetable, but they call it that Yeah, but there's nothing broccoli about it. I don't know why they do it. Maybe it's so Like daikon is often called daikon even though calling it a chinese radish would be closer Like that actually is pretty like oh, yeah, that's very radish like once you chopped it up especially You know what whatever moves product. Oh if we call it chinese broccoli, we sell more Like bok choy perhaps was a little too Exotic yeah, I suppose it's just like a limp. It's like a limp cross between the celery and the spinach Paul spain From new zealand emailed. Did you see that? Yes? I saw that I didn't want to reply because we're in the middle of the show Oh, yeah, but we should reply once we're done. Yes. I was going to say yes to him Oh, he's got a he's got a youtube video in his in his signature now. That's pretty impressive Oh, nice. I'm doing doing a tv interview on tv nz tv nz breakfast tv nz breakfast You know, I don't like those terms, but you're doing that something that says breakfast in it. You better be At least give me something It's like saying news at lunch Or dinner news Like you have tv dinners. You have news dinners Oh, maybe that could be a restaurant theme tv breakfast tv dinner There's been a tv dinner restaurant. There must have been I feel like It would it would tie in with the news like oh, this is the morning breakfast show. So we're serving brunch and breakfast Oh, this is a lunch hour. So You know That's just a restaurant Roger Yes, you would you wouldn't have to spend as much. I mean you can repurpose a lot of things That's funny I've got this great idea for a restaurant during the morning. We'll serve breakfast in a midday. We'll serve lunch You have breaking news snacks So you're just saying you make the restaurants theme News the news cycle 24 hours Ah, well folks, thank you all for joining us. We are going to move along now There's nothing to see here anymore, but I hope you enjoyed the show and we'll see you


All right. Hello everyone. It's not that big of a room. So I'm gonna tone down the mic is super loud, too We've been hearing so far and you're probably gonna hear quite a bit more about How networking is moving closer and closer to the edge right get closer to your clients Push it as far as you can well today I want to talk about pushing it just a little further than that and actually running envoy on Your end user client devices themselves With a little project that's called on boy mobile My name is JP. I work at Lyft on This thing called envoy mobile. So the idea here is that We can take everything is great about envoy that you know love that you run on the server side and We can embed it to run it in mobile apps to run it on iOS on Android And to run it to power the networking capabilities of those apps so a few years ago the team started Taking a look at what it would take to bring envoy and embed it into a mobile client So I'm always built around on boy It's designed to run on iOS and Android specifically although it does run on various platforms So well, it's just not a target platform and one of the main Differences is that we have a number of constraints by nature of running in these highly sandboxed highly Locked down mobile environments Right where as an application developer you ship a binary to end users and that ends up running as a single binary single process most of the time And so you can't just run your networking client as a sidecar and spawn a process as your app is running and Where you request off to it? You have to run it as part of your applications process sharing memory sharing CPU cycles all of that We built on boy mobile as a polyglot library and what I mean by this is that there are apis for various languages and platforms that you might want to use We have apis for C++ Swift Kotlin objective C Java Python although you don't really run that one in apps and the idea here being that we want to make the experience of making network requests for application developers as Idiomatic and native feelings possible on those platforms And what this allows the library to do is both a field right at home for someone who for example writes Kotlin all-day long ready Android apps or Swift on iOS but at the same time offer some amount of flexibility for larger teams who may want to invest into building a single Interface to their networking apis and write that in C++ ship it in a cross-platform way Like on boy on boy mobiles open source licensed under Apache 2.0 And you can find more about it at on vulnerable.io Which is where you see the nice screenshot of the website there so why? Did we go out and build this and by we I mean that on boy was first Started around 2019 by a few lift folks and over over time More and more folks especially Google, but also from other companies started contributing Why is this useful to build well? There's a lot of what you probably know and love about on boy that would be hugely beneficial to bring in a mobile application context And so that was sort of one of the main ideas and one of the things that on boys quite known for is its rich set of observability capabilities There is just a rich set of stats that you can emit by just nature of using the library And what's nice about this is that especially on mobile where you have very limited resources You have to be very careful in how you instrument and you monitor and you observe What's happening on your end-users devices? They might be in a constrained environment both from CPU or memory perspective They might be in an intermittent connectivity state You don't want to end up competing for the same resources that you're trying to observe Therefore degrading the whole experience right so that rich set of observability and especially how Lightweight and stream died a streamlined and optimized it is is extremely helpful to bring to a mobile context another reason is that Envoy has all of these support for newer networking technologies And I think we're actually going to hear some talks later today about some of what those are and and some of the recent developments and Envoy upstream there and what's nice about this is that on Certain platforms like on Apple's platforms the networking library and the networking engine ships with the operating system So if you go back and you target You support your end-users still using in OS. That's a few years old They're not gonna have access to Everything that's happened since then and what's nice about being able to ship our own networking library with our apps Is that we can go and backport those and support all of our users? Not just the ones on the bleeding edge Another thing that bringing Envoy to mobile gets us is a certain amount of consistency Where instead of building against different apis different Having different engines on different platforms and different OS versions all having their own quirks their own ways to think about them their own Ideas for how to architect the networking logic around them We can share that not just across the mobile code bases But also on the server so that you know if you're compressing something with Envoy proxy on the server side using Brotly the version that you are decompressing on the client is using that same code, right? So there's a high degree of compatibility and consistency Another layer that bring Envoy mobile to bring Envoy to mobile gets us is a lot of control these Network engines that ship with the operating system on the war extremely powerful fine-tuned, but Ultimately they end up targeting the long the the vast majority of use cases They want to be good at everything, but it means that they don't necessarily expose Many different ways to fine-tune and optimize and configure the networking engine for your specific needs and if you're building a product where You have a pretty well-known usage pattern and every bite matters You probably want the ability to fine-tune and say well these endpoints. I know speak H2 for example So skip the whole alpn process Debugability is another big one that bring Envoy to mobile gets us where on Alternate network engines those are closed source they ship with the OS You can't step through the code necessarily to understand deep down What's happening when you have a request that's timing out or you have something that you're just trying to observe and By having full access to the source code and building it in a loading it into the IDE so that you can step through the code Set break points really introspect and understand what's going on You can gain a whole new level of understanding in terms of what's going on under the hood So those are some of the reasons why It's been helpful for us to continue to invest in this effort to bring Envoy to mobile So brief timeline Matt touched on this a little bit earlier Envoy was announced to the world in 2016 Three years later some folks at Lyft started working on bringing that to a mobile context then for two years after that there was a lot of Work that was done in order to bring it up to speed to be at Compatibility or as close as possible to the existing well-established well-polished network engines that were already out there in the industry and Then from 2021 to 2022 Lyft ran a number of production experiments in order to really Understand where we still had performance or other Regressions compared to the existing stacks and we worked hard to both understand them and Bridge them and this is something that was only possible because of Envoy's open nature Right where we're able to dig into the source code talk to some of the maintainers to the contributors and understand What might be going on and what might help and then finally just a few months ago We completed rolling out Envoy mobile to all of our user-facing mobile apps And now if you've taken a Lyft in the last few months if you've rented a scooter or a bike Using any of the Lyft apps odds are that you were using Envoy on your device to actually make those requests So we only did this once we were fully comfortable and confident that we weren't regressing the user experience for anyone And so we made sure to be at par or exceeding any of the performance measurements that we could make with the existing pre-existing networking engines So we published a blog post on Lyft's engineering blog edge.lift.com you can read more about it there and To give you a sense of what we now have now that Envoy powers a vast majority of network requests in the Lyft apps is We get these real-time Dashboards and statistics on what's happening at scale and this might seem very simple to you This is table stakes when You're building any sort of service I product But what you have to understand is that the mobile landscape is years behind when it comes to this kind of level of observability and If you were to build this with any of the existing networking engines You'd probably either be losing out on a lot of data or you'd be degrading the user experience And so the fact that Envoy has such a strong focus on rich and optimized Observability out of the box means that we get a lot of this stuff More or less for free and as stats get added upstream in the main Envoy project We can take advantage of those and and add them to our observability So this is really huge and probably one of the main Advantages that we now have by powering the Lyft platforms with Envoy mobile on the client side So I want to paint a picture here a little bit and just talk about the road to bringing Envoy to mobile and the the obstacles or the challenges that we had along the way and Envoy is this highly deployed widely used product, right? So it's it's already been quite heavily optimized and works quite well, right? So you would think you just plug that into an app and start using it to make requests and everything's beautiful Well, it turns out that the environments in which mobile applications run Tends to be quite different than a server application. So to paint in very broad strokes here In a server environment You tend to have a very stable internet connection. You're directly wired into the backbone. You have a wired connection to the network It tends to be quite fast. If it's not you'll probably change vendors, right? You have control over Who is providing this service? If you don't like it if there's an outage You go and open a ticket you work with your provider. You work through it. It is not the status quo it is not the normal level of operation you tend to have a certain level of Reliability that you're expecting out of your infrastructure and you have control right where if you're on a provider You're on premises and you don't like any of the quality of service that you're getting you have some amount of agency in terms of Moving that over. I'm not saying it's simple, but you do have that level of control. You contrast that to mobile and and Mobile networks are inherently Unreliable not only do you not control the carrier side and the provider side of it? You also don't control where the device is physically located. You don't you don't control the health of the device that your application is running on you don't control how How constrained it is? You have a wide amount of variability in terms of the quality and the performance Envelopes of devices that your users are running You have a lot of carriers and this is even more true if you operate outside of just North America Which is primarily where lift operates Your users can configure their device in many ways and you don't really have the option to say Oh, your configuration isn't really one that we like and so we're not going to support you everything has to work we made some measurements and Some of the numbers are a little small in the chart, but just look at the variability in terms of the the bars here The bottom here is 80 85 percent success rate The top is around 98 percent success rate and what this is measuring is the success rate by carrier and by networking library that we've measured with one of the lift apps over the span of 30 days and What this helps illustrate is that not only is there a wide amount of variability across carriers but also the top performing Device or operating system is not consistent neither is the top performing networking library and this is helpful to make the point that We don't control where what carrier our users are running their devices on we need to offer them the best possible service regardless of where they are and This is another reason why using on-voy mobiles has been helpful to us because if you see this and you're using one of the The the the networking engine that's shipping with the operating system You have very little control over how much you can influence that in order to help fix or bridge some of these gaps that you're seeing here All right, so we've talked a little bit about mobile constraints. Here's some more Devices have a finite amount of memory that you are competing with the rest of the application for They have unreliable connectivity we touched on that. There are many carriers. You have to support them all user configurations you can install a Http proxy to run on your phone a VPN you can configure your DNS settings to point to something that returns garbage data half the time Users are frequently moving between networks and between interfaces and physical radios on the device as well Where and this is especially true of lifts use cases where you might be Requesting a ride as you're exiting your condo building entering the elevator leaving your Wi-Fi Right and those requests still have to perform as best as they possibly can or you might be trying to unlock a scooter Between you know large buildings This is a fun one the operating system can kill your app effectively at any moment but typically when it's misbehaving and Generally, you don't want to be the reason why the operating system is killing you right? So we need to make sure that the networking layer is not responsible or is not overly hungry for these resources Another tricky thing with with mobile deployments is that you can't SSH into a production environment and troubleshoot Why something might not be working? Well you really need to rely on your observability and More often than not in the mobile space that just means that you have very little insight into what's happening And that's yet another reason why the observability angle of Envoy is hugely helpful to us From the developer experience point of view if you're one of the things that we had to tackle Bringing Envoy to the mobile side was getting it working and compiling in The IDEs the mobile application developers use right so now you can build and run Envoy in Xcode or with Android Studio and still have full access to the The profilers that ship with those or be able to set breakpoints Which is pretty nice, but that was certainly some amount of work that we had to do Another concern on mobile is binary size because we ship a single binary to all of our users We need to really be careful how much heft we're adding to that binary especially if they're updating weekly Right, and you don't want to balloon the application size just because you wanted to add some observability into your networking layer We learned some things by rolling this out. First of all We've learned that both iOS and Android tend to perform in some pretty surprising ways So one example We discovered the hard way that Android can block some DNS resolutions when the when the app is back rounded and When the device is in low power mode and so we had to Go and experiment with various different ways that we could perform these DNS resolutions Prowd at the at the source code for Android and try to understand how we could work around this Another one that took us quite a while to Discover is that Android uses dual stack sockets and for some carrier configurations This meant that if you were trying to connect to an IPv4 address Those users just couldn't connect at all And so what we ended up Figuring out that we needed to do is on Android we now force IPv6 addresses So if it's an IPv4 address we map it to an equivalent IPv6 address so that the the connection can be made Otherwise it can't even connect And this was certainly not something that we intuitively knew So we always force IPv6 on Android for that reason On iOS it also that OS also has its own quirks and What we found is that the envoy uses quite a few and both envoy and envoy mobile use quite a few C++ static state C++ instructors and What iOS in particular does when an application is shutting down and it's being terminated is that it might go and free up Some of those static resources, which means that if something's still accessing that it'll crash So this was a little surprising to us because we found that When we had envoy mobile enabled in our experiments those users were Experiencing way more crashes, but those crashes weren't happening while they were using the application They were happening while they were shutting it down while they were force quitting the app And so that's this added quite a bit of noise to even though it wasn't degrading the user experience necessarily it was adding quite a bit of noise to how our Mobile developers look at our overall observability for crash rates and are saying oh well this this thing isn't stable at all It's crashing well turned out that it's it's fine it just happens to crash when you're shutting it down and You know, we've been working through some of these One by one guarding against some of the state that might disappear, but ultimately it's still still something that can happen And This is just a cost that you have to pay If you're working in any sort of JVM Interacting with with native code is that you do have to cross the J&I And that can it can be costly, but also it's just cumbersome more often than not So we try to minimize how often we cross that barrier So some of the things that we did in order to address some of these concerns For one trimming binary size We were able to run some analyses using tools like bloaty or Or other other means and try and identify Where some of the heft was coming from and at this point? We've gotten the the overhead of linking envoy mobile into apps to be less than five megs generally speaking which is not very light but for applications that tend to be you know 50 plus megs in size it It's a good enough trade-off in our case at least for Lyft ID integration so this is something that that we worked on with some open-source projects like the basal rules excode proj set a rule set where you can Build and run envoy and you have full access to all of the sources A C plus plus in this case. There's some objective C plus plus objective C swift You can step through those breakpoints use LDB And this has been extremely helpful in terms of understanding how How things work under the hood where if you do run into an edge case that you try and understand You have access to To to that same thing for Android studio So some of the things that the teams have been working on recently So earlier I mentioned that envoy mobile power is the 98% of Lyft's Mobile network requests, so there's a 2% holdout that we're keeping there part of that is to continue running comparison experiments with the the previous networking stacks that we were shipping with But another reason is that we do have a number of gaps where we still don't offer Full support for certain configurations and those are generally they fall into two buckets One is VPNs and one is HTTP proxies that users can install and run on their phones So on the VPN front we recently added support for VPNs on Android This required moving from one DNS resolver to another That's backed by a different System call that allows us to operate in the background in low power mode and and supports VPNs So that that's now done We have work in progress actually the the code here is mostly shipped And we're running some production experiments to see how we perform when the user has an HTTP proxy installed on Android We Recently made a change so that envoy can delegate some of the some of the SSL certificate chain Evaluation to the operating system so that you're consistent with whatever the OS provides And whatever the OS trusts So one of the main remaining gaps that we still have is a GP proxies on iOS a Lot of the code that was written for proxy support on Android will be portable here and will work But there is a few things that still need to be done such as parsing and interpreting pack files And within the next few months we should have that up and running So this is really the last big piece of core functionality the last main rollout gap that that currently we require delegating to to to the alternate legacy stacks Another thing that we want to experiment with is quake a quake in HTTP HTTP 3 so this is something that on mobile does Support at the moment, but we haven't run any production experiments And so there's probably some stuff that we'll uncover once we start turning that on and running some production experiments But the fact that envoy has rich quick in HTTP 3 support does mean that we do get a lot of that More or less for free and actually that's something that I want to reiterate is that The envelope over project it lives in a separate git repo But ultimately it it vendors Envoy as a git sub module and we tend to keep that up to date on a weekly basis And what that means is that as more stats or bug fixes or features added upstream and envoy We get to benefit from that and so do all the users that we deploy to And another thing that some contributors from Google are working on is improving The xxs integration and support from a mobile perspective so caching some of the xxs values And generally just making it work. Well on mobile I had some slides on how the architecture works I'll brush through this pretty briefly because I'm running a long time, but at a very high level what's going on here is that you have Different frameworks and and products that we that we produce such as frameworks for iOS frameworks for Android a Common C and C++ layer that these bindings delegate to and then ultimately that calls out into envoy And recently We've also been putting more love into not just the Swift and Kotlin APIs But first-class C++ APIs that also call into this common core So Mostly three you can think of it in three pieces you have sort of the user-facing APIs You have the the the middle core bridge layer that then calls into the C++ native code and envoy I Will skip through this But I'm happy to dive into more details I'll just stop on this slide real quick because what are the ways where we interoperate between? Kotlin Java Swift Objective-C is we effectively allow the platform layer those higher-level language layers to Define callbacks and closures and functions that are invoked either during envoy filters or at very various parts of the pipeline and We'll go and carry some state for Either that that step in in the filter chain such as like stream Intel and Carry it back up to the platform layer where we'll go and deserialize it at that layer. So that's sort of how We can communicate across languages and this illustrates it a little bit where you have The envoy engine at the upper left that's configured with those higher-level languages That goes and translates things into an envoy Set of concepts which effectively calls back into that middle layer, which then invokes the The C functions that are passed in converted into top-level language lambdas at the very top So just briefly over the last few years. There's Over a dozen folks who've been contributing to the project. I've been working on it for the last year But ultimately some folks have been working on it since long before that and so I just wanted to call that out we have contributors from within Lyft from within Google, but also from elsewhere in the community and Of course every time that you've contributed something to upstream envoy We've been able to benefit from that in in many ways in our project as well So that's it. I can open it up for questions Yeah, that's a great question. So to repeat the context is from the perspective of a room full of server engineers how What sort of opportunities does this unlock from from a server perspective? Well for one if you have any sort of expertise within your your server team in terms of how envoy works how to configure Filters or stats that domain knowledge applies on the mobile side now as well. So Your networking team your server networking team can now collaborate more closely with your client networking team if If you adopt envoy mobile and you've already adopted envoy on the server. So that's one another is that like I mentioned if you If you do any sort of optimizations or bug fixes in Code that happens to be shared between envoy mobile and envoy proxy on the server side That ends up benefiting mobile clients as well So in terms of sharing the code base, that's helpful I mentioned compatibility and consistency earlier where if you have a filter that operates bilaterally Then it you can be running the same filter on Your server as you are on the client and you have a high degree of confidence that they're going to be compatible Because they're they're using the exact same code, right? So a common example there is compression and decompression where you know that you know you're unlikely to run into an edge case where One broadly compressor compresses things one way, but it's incompatible with an alternate implementation, right? It's the same implementation. So there's a number of ways and There's even things beyond that where By sharing But by understanding and knowing that you're using the same networking engine on both ends of that connection There are some optimizations that you can do as well. So it extends beyond just developer productivity There's also some aspects of of end user performance involved Yes, Matt wants to ask something which is kind of scary Do you want to answer it as well? I? Just wanted to say real quick that as server engineers We tend to be very excited that you know, we're 99.99% success rate, but the reality is that the client might be a hundred percent broken, right? I mean that's like a pervasive problem So I just wanted to add that as server engineers We need to care what is happening on the client because we can be serving a hundred percent success And there's broken json or something and the client is a hundred percent broken So just wanted to add that we should care more about the end-to-end problem here And I think as JP was saying that with the shared library we can participate more, right? There's just more there's more shared knowledge because I think historically at most companies There's these silos. There's the client people and the server people and I think that's not super productive So I just wanted to add that color No, that's some great color Matt and just briefly on that what we discovered is when we do look at server-side success rate versus success rate from the perspective of the client We have seen some surprises there where the The numbers didn't match up and so we had Additional insight into where to invest in terms of bridging that gap. I don't know how we're doing on time I'm happy to take more questions Okay, all right. Yes Yeah, okay, so the question is that the audience member noticed that there were different success rates across different Networking libraries and across different carriers and operating systems and in some cases Envoy mobile is underperforming or Rather you were all session or okay. Shopee is outperforming Envoy mobile because of the observability that we now have We are able to discover these gaps where previously Okay, well, maybe we were just on a single networking engine per operating system But we still didn't have as much of that visibility into the disparity both From within operating systems or within carriers or sometimes even geographically where carriers end up Sometimes a be testing networking configurations geographically and so you end up having someone in Detroit that has a very different networking experience than someone in Manhattan for example, so yes, there's still some areas where it's some specific Yeah, so specific areas where The alternate networking engines are outperforming what we can do with Envoy mobile but because we have that added Observability we know the areas where we can go and dig into and optimize and potentially fix some issues and our barrier to Fully rolling out at least to 98% was to outperform globally Right or to match or outperform globally And so we looked at a number of top-level business metrics to make sure that we weren't taking any step back there Even though in some specific areas, we might be underperforming other areas were outperforming The the idea is that overall we we didn't take a step back One more okay one more yes, right so the question is How can other companies go and perform some of the same measurements and experiments that we did and ultimately? This is one of the reasons why we've invested in Envoy mobile is because of the observability that we can get out of it So in many ways what you're asking is how can you get the same level of observability with the alternate stacks? And the truth is it's very hard to to accomplish that so what we ended up doing is we uh knowingly Degrade the experience for some users on the alternate networking stacks on your all session or okay HP in order to add additional Instrumentation right because that ends up competing for resources so we know that that there is a hit there And we sample a small percentage of user traffic that we randomize in order to compare with the same type of Observability overhead on Envoy mobile right because you can't necessarily compare Envoy mobiles optimized stats To other stats that would otherwise be adding overhead because that's not comparing apples to apples So we have the same sort of heavy weight instrumentation on both ends and then we'll run at scale Public experiments and sometimes take multiple weeks of gathering data in order to understand How both perform Okay, thank you very much for your time


What's up my fellow trade hackers today is Tuesday, February 11th. Welcome to today's update Markets up again, of course I mean, I don't really believe that they're allowed to go down anymore But S&P's up about nine at this point We still got an over an hour to go before the cash market close the Dow actually did turn slightly red for just a Little tiny bit of time, but it's it's back into positive territory. Can't keep a good stock down So what did we do today? We closed out a position in FXI books and profits If we take a look at FXI we can see we put this on when implied volatility is super high price kind of danced around in a little bit of a range and got this contraction in implied volatility today Enabled us to book some profits in our short premium in FXI Also added to our position in wheat wheat is on a little bit of a little bit of mini slide here to the downside and So we just sold some more premium here just to kind of add to that position as Price started to move out of our a range of our current iron condor and Then what else is going on earnings? So we've got a couple earnings one is lift L Y FT lift announces after the bell today You can see it's had a huge spike kind of run up into the earnings announcement You're not going to see an implied volatility rank or IV percentile because lift is Less than a year old so the IV percentile IV rank it uses a year's worth of data to calculate where it is compared to itself Over that year and without a year there is going to be no comparison So but take a look at some of these other earnings announcements I mean pretty pretty muted as far as movement goes, you know, here's the earnings. They're very first one You know, here's the second one had a big up move But came back down and closed pretty close to where it ended up before the announcement same thing here pretty muted and then the 4th earnings announcement of their young career is coming up after the belt today So we'll see what happens there I don't have any positions on in lift to the others that are announcing before the market opens tomorrow is CVS is one and They there's decent markets in there I may put something on there kind of a short premium play in CVS and then the one I'll definitely be trading is Shopify, I just I like these a high-priced stocks We'll look at an iron duck in Shopify. You can see IV percentile at 92 IV rank of 76 So getting some really good premium in there if we look at the expected move of Shopify About 40 bucks 39 bucks plus or minus as the overnight move if we look at, you know, the three-day options If we're gonna let this expire you're looking at about a 43 Dollar move plus or minus and so that would put the price right in our duck head And so that's what we're looking at in Shopify going back to CVS Expected move there just to check that out is a little over three bucks You can see that right here and then lift Let's look at the expected move on lift as well about four and a half bucks. So That is where we're at with earnings Hopefully we get a little bit of a reversal the the market overall Going back to ES, you know, it's up a little over eight bucks right now, but it was up quite a bit more So coming down off of its highs just a little bit And it would be nice to see a little bit of a rollover and die. We'll see what happens. Everybody. Have a good evening. Talk to you later