Hey everyone, welcome back to Chicago. Lisa Martin here with John Ferrier. We're live with theCUBE at Ansible Fest 2022. This is not only Ansible's 10th anniversary, John, but it's the first in-person event in three years, about 14 to 1500 people here talking about the evolution of automation, really the democratization opportunities that Ansible is providing. And this segment's going to be great. Keep alumni back and we're going to get industry perspective on the automation journey. So it should be great. It will be great. Two alumni back for the price of one. Scott Kanane joins us. Director of Worldwide Automation at Kendral. Nelson Shu is back as well. Product Marketing Director at Red Hat. Guys, great to have you back on the live CUBE. Oh, thank you for having us. And it's really great to be back here live in person and get a chance to see you guys again. Well, and also you get such a sense of the actual Ansible community here and it's only a fraction of them that are here, but people are ready to be back. They're ready to collaborate in person. And I always can imagine the amount of innovation that happens at these events, just like off the show floor, people bumping into each other and go, hey, I had this idea. What do you think? Scott, it's been just about a year since Kendral was formed. Talk to us about the last close to a year and what that's been like, especially as the world has been so topsy turvy. Yeah, exactly. Topsy turvy, people getting back to working in person and everything else, but throw on that what we've done in the last year, taking Kendral outside of being a part of IBM, right, in our own company at this point. And you hear a lot of our executives and a lot of our people when we talk about it, like, oh yeah, it's a $19 billion startup. We got freedom of action. We can do all these different things. But one of the ways I look at it is we are a $19 billion startup, which means we've got a lot of companies out there that are trusting us to, no matter what change we're doing, continue to deliver their operations, do it flawlessly, do it in a way so they can continue to service their clients effectively. And don't break them. And so that, to me, the way we do that and the way I focus on that is automation. Ansible's obviously core to our strategy getting there. Yeah, and I'd like to get your thoughts too, because we've seen a trend and we've been reporting on this. With the cloud growth and the scale of cloud and distributed computing going cloud native, the automation is the front and peace center of all conversations. Automate this, developers go faster. And with the pandemic, we're coming out of that pandemic of you post pandemic with, large scale automation system architecture, a lot more like architectural conversations and customers leaning on new things. What are you seeing in this automation framework that you guys are talking about? What's been the hot playbook or recipe or architecture to play on words there? But I mean, this is kind of the key focus. Yeah, I mean, if you, one of the things that customer talks I've been pulled into a lot recently have all been around thinking about security, right? A lot in terms of security and compliance.  So people are conscious of how much energy that's being used in their data centers, right? People are conscious of how secure they are, right? Are they, their end customers are trusting them with data information about them, right? And they're trusting us to make sure that those systems are secure, to make sure that all that is taken care of in the right way. And so, what's hot security and compliance, right? What can we do in the energy space? Can we do things to help clients understand better their energy consumption as, especially as we get now in Europe to the winter months can we do things there that'll help them also be better in that space, right? And reduce their costs. And a lot more cloud rails obviously is in right there. You got Improsa and you got now Ansible. They're kind of there to help the customers put it together at scale. This has been the big conversation. Last year, remember it was automate, automate, automate. This year it's automation everywhere and every piece of the landscape. Edge has been big discussion tomorrow we'll hear about event-driven stuff. This is kind of a change of focus and scope. Can you share your thoughts on how you see how big this is in terms of the customer journey? I'm sorry. In terms of their architecture, how they're rolling out automation. Yeah, yeah, so in terms of their rolling out, in terms of them consuming architecture, right? In the architecture or consuming automation and rolling out the architecture for how they do that. You know again, to me it's a lot of it's been focused around how do we do this in the most secure manner possible? How do we deliver the service to them in the most secure manner possible? How do they understand that they can trust the automation and it's doing the right things on their environments, right? So it's not, you know, we're not pushing out or it's not making bad policies. And they're leaning on you guys being. It's not being putting malware out there, right? At the same time, we're doing some things. And so they really rely on, our customers rely on us to really help them with that journey. I think a big part of that with Kendra is such a great partner and so many customers trusting them. It's a fact that they really understand that enterprise. And so as Scott talks about the security aspect, we're not just talking to the IT operations people, right? We're talking across the enterprise, the security, the infrastructure and the automation around that. So when we talk about hybrid cloud, we talk about network and security, edge is a natural conversation to that. Because absolutely at the edge, network and security automation is critical. Otherwise how are you going to manage just the size of your edge as it grows? And we've been, and that's another area that we've been having a lot more conversations with clients on is how do you do automation for IoT and edge-based devices, right? We traditionally, data center, cloud, kind of the core pieces of where we've been focusing on. But recently I've been seeing a lot more opportunities and a lot more companies coming forward saying, help us with the network space, help us with the IoT space. We really want to start getting to that level of automation and that part of our environments. And what are some of the key barriers that customers are coming to you with, saying help us overcome these so that they can, you're smiling, so that they can obviously attract and retain the right talent and also be able to determine what processes to automate to extract the most value and the most ROI for the organization. Yeah, and that's an interesting, the ROI conversations always an interesting one, right? Because when you start having that with customers of some of the first things they think about, the first, the natural place people go is, oh, labor takeout, I can do this with less people, but that's not the end-all, be-all of automation. In fact, my personal view is that's, maybe the bottom 30%, right? That's kind of, then you have to think about the value you get above and beyond that, standard operation, standardized processes, right? How are you gonna be able to do those faster? How is that enabling your business? What's all the risks that's now been taken out by having these changes codified, right? By having them done in a manner that is repeatable, scalable, and really gets them to the point of what their business needs from an operational standpoint. And instructing that value. Nelson, talk about the automation journey from your perspective. How have you seen that evolve from your lens, especially over the last couple of years? It's a great question. It's interesting because obviously all of our customers are at different stages of their automation journey. We have some of them just beginning, looking at automation, they've been doing old scripts, if you will, the past. And then we have more that are embracing it as a culture. So we have customers that are building cultures of automation, right? They have stand-ups, they have automation guilds. It's kind of a little bit of a click. It's kind of building up steam in that momentum. And then we have the clients that Kindrow works with, right? And they're very much focused on automation because they understand that they have a lack of resources. They don't have the expertise. They don't have the time to be able to deliver all this. And that's really, Kindrow really comes into effect to really help those customers accelerate their automation, right? And to that point, you know, we're doing a lot of innovation work with Kindrow. And we lean on them heavily because, you know, they're willing to make that commitment as a partner, both on the day-to-day work that we do together, as well as forward-looking at different architectures. And the community aspect from our side internally has been tremendous in terms of us being able to expand what we're doing with automation and what, A, if he's been able to do with that community to get there, right? So to last month, we did about 33 million day-one, day-two operations through automation, right? So that's what we've done. If you look at it, you know, if I break it down, it's really 80% of that standard global process stuff that we bring to the table. 20% of that is what our account teams are bringing specifically to their clients based on their needs and what they need to get done, right? You know, one of my favorite examples of this, right? We have an automation example out there for a client we've got in Japan, right?  They're also concerned about resiliency, right? In the face of natural disasters. So they took our automation, they said, okay, we're going to tie your platform to seismic data that's coming through. And we understand what seismic data is happening, okay? It's hitting a certain event that's automatically start kicking off resiliency operations so we can be prepared. And thus keep serving our clients when that's happening, right? And that's not something like when you talk about a global team coming in and saying, we're going to do all this. It's that community aspect, getting the account focus, getting to that level, right? That's, really brings value to clients. And that's one of the use cases, you know, that AAP's enabled us to do with the community approach we've got. Now, so talk about this, Partishka. I think earlier, when we were talking to Stephanie and Tom, the bottoms up, Ansible community with top down kind of business objectives kind of come into play. You guys have a partnership where it's some game changing things happening because Ansible's growing, continuing to have that scope grow from a skill set standpoint, expand the horizons, doing more automation at scale. And then you got business objectives where people want to move faster in their digital transformation. So to me, it's interesting that this part kind of hits both. It does really hit both. I mean, you know, the community cloud that Kindrel has is so critical, right? Because they build that CACF architecture internally, but they follow that community mantra, if you will. And community is so important to us, right? And that's really where we find innovation. So together with what we were discussing about validated content earlier today becomes critical to build that content, to really help people get started, right? Validated content, content they can depend on and deliver, right? So that becomes critical. On the other side, as you mentioned is the reality of how do we get this done, right? How do we mature? How do we accelerate? And without the ability to drive those solutions to them to fix, if you want the products that the line of business has, well, if you don't answer those questions with the innovation, with the community, and then with the AP, it's got to all come together. I mean, that community framework is interesting. I think we hear a lot in theCUBE, you know, hey, let's do this, sounds good. Who's going to do it? Someone, who's the operator? So there's a little skills gap going on. There's also a transformation in the roles of the operators in particular, and the devs. So the dev ops equation is completely going to the next level. This is where people want to move faster. So you see a lot more managed services, a lot more services that's, I won't say so much top down, but more like, let's do it and here's a play to get it done. Then backfill on the hiring, whether it's taking on a little bit of technical debt or going a little faster to get the proof points. Right. And I think one of the critical aspects is, Ansible has its certified collections, right? And oftentimes, I meet with customers two, three times a week, right? There's not a single one that doesn't emphasize the importance of partners and the importance of certified collections, right? And kindred was included in that, right? Because they bring a lot of those certified collections, use them, leverage them. It helps customers get a jump start, right? It's a few, well, it's their easy button, right? But they only get that and they value that because of the support that's there, right? They get the wins. Yeah, it's just adding on the certified collections, right? So it was great to see the hub come out with those capabilities because, as we've gone through the last 12 months and changed one of the things that we focused more in on is network devices, network support, right? And so some of the certified collections out there for Cisco, for F5, right? Some of those things, we've been able to take back in and now build on top of what the expertise that we have in that space as well and then use that as a starting point to divert more value for our clients. How is Kindred working together with Red Hat and with Ansible to help organizations? Like you mentioned, Nelson, the journey varies considerably. Some are well on their way, others aren't. But for those to really start developing an automation-first culture, we talked a lot about culture, we talked about it this morning, you could feel the power of that community in driving it. But how do you guys work together to help companies and any industry kind of really start understanding what an automation-first culture is and then building it internally and getting some grounds well? Well, it's interesting, right? One of the things that really is, we've found really helpful is assessments, right? So you have silos and pockets of automation and that's that challenge, right? So to be able to bring that, if you are an automation community within an enterprise together, we often go out and we'll do an assessment, an automation assessment. To really understand holistically how the enterprise could leverage automation, not just in the pockets, but to bring it together. And when they bring that automation together, they can share playbooks, can share their experiences, right? And with Kindle and the practices they have, right, they really bring that home from an industry perspective. They also bring that home, if you will, from a technology perspective and they bring that together. So, you know, Kindle in that respect is the glue for our customer success. What's the next big thing that you guys see? Because if this continues down the road, this path, people are going to get the wins, they're going to get the successes, new beachhead, if you will, is established. You've got the edge around the corner. What's next for you guys in the partnership? How do you see it developing? No, it's all good. So really, you know, I mentioned it earlier and the automation journey paralleled by innovation, right? Customers today are automating, they're doing a great job, there's multiple tools out there, we understand we're not going to be the only tool in the shed. But Ansible can come in and integrate that entire environment. And in a hybrid cloud environment, you want that there, right? I think what next is, obviously the hybrid cloud is critical. The edge is critical, right? And I think that, you know, the needs and the requirements that Kindle hears that we have is kind of that future. And, you know, we often, often in Red Hat we talk about a North Star, right? And when I work with partners like Kindle, we talk about the North Star where we want to get to. And that is the acceleration of automation. And I think both by the practical aspect of working with our customers and the innovation as partners, as business partners, technology partners, will help accelerate that. Scott, your perspective to bridge the future is obviously hybrid and edge. How are you bringing your customers along? So we see, you know, when I talk about my automation strategy, our automation strategy, right? It's about being automated, orchestrated, and intelligent, right? Kind of those three layers of the stack. We've been building out a lot of work what we call our integrated AI ops layer for actionable insights, right? We've got a goal to integrate that. And we have integrated into our automation service for how we're delivering the whole package to our clients. So they can better see opportunities for automation. What's the best way to go about it? You know, what are some of the issues they have, vulnerabilities they have in their environment, and really bringing it to them in a real holistic manner. In fact, internally, we call it our F5 steering wheel, right, based on the racing thing, right? Because you think about the racing cars, F5s, they're right there, right? They've got everything they need in front of them. So our goal's been to include that into our automation view and service and build that out, right? So that's one way we're doing it. The additional way is through some announcements you've probably heard, hopefully heard in the last couple of weeks through something called Kendra Bridge, right? Kendra Bridge is more the digitization of the way we deliver services for our clients to make it easier for them to consume and to make the barrier to entry for things like getting automation, getting it more in their environment, lower as much as possible, right? So really, integrated AI ops, Kendra Bridge, those are really the two ways we see it as going forward. It's interesting, you know, we live through all these different inflection points in the industry. Every time there's a big inflection point that's more complex, it needs to be tamed, you know? And so you've got innovation, you've got innovation coming and you've got the clients want to simplify and tame the complexity. This is a big part of what you guys do. Absolutely, yeah, I mean, how do we, you know, most, when the clients come to us, right? Like I said, it's about trust. They trust us to do it because we can make it easy for them to not have to worry about that, right? They don't have to worry about what it takes to secure the environment, manage it, run it, design it, build it for the cloud. We give them the ability to, we give them the ability to focus on their core business while we do the stuff that's important to them. Which is absolutely critical that you can't emphasize trust in this relationship enough. I wish we had more time, guys.  I think that's basically what this is pointing down to. But thanks so much, guys, for talking with John and me about how Kendral and Ansible are working together, really enabling your customers to unlock the value of automation across their organization and really make some big business changes. We appreciate your insights and your time. Absolutely. Thank you guys. Happy to do it and happy to do it anytime. Thank you guys too. All right, our pleasure. Thank you so much. For our guests and John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live from Chicago. This is day one of our coverage of Ansible Fest 22. Don't go anywhere. Our next guest joins us in just a minute.


Aloha, welcome to the Ruderman Roundtable. I'm State Senator Russell Ruderman from the Pune and Ka'u District on the Big Island. And I'm your host here at Think Tech Hawaii every other Tuesday. My guest today is Peter Adler. Peter is currently part of the Accord 3.0 network, which is a seasoned team of respected professionals in planning, law, business, government affairs, public policy, environmental, finance, and communications. Mr. Adler returned to Hawaii five years ago after serving as president of the Keystone Center for nearly a decade. Peter's specialty is multi-party negotiation and problem solving. He has worked extensively on water management and resource planning problems and mediates rights, trains, and teaches in diverse areas of conflict management. Peter is also an author and has written extensively in the field of mediation and conflict resolution. Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Senator. I think what might be of most interest recently you've been very involved in, the joint fact-finding study, which occurred on Kauai to study pesticide use and the effects of pesticide use. Is that correct? You were there. It is. What was your involvement in that? I was. The project was actually initiated by the Department of Agriculture by Chairman Enright. And he asked if I would work on this. I think he recognized that it was a tumultuous debates going on, wanted to see if we could bring some negotiated fact-finding together and bring people. And so we did that on Kauai really as a pilot to see if it could work. Now, on Kauai had a big dust-up over GMOs and pesticides a couple of years ago that resulted in a law that is now in court. Was this related to that bill being passed? Do you think it maybe was some of the aftermath of that? Well, the original idea was embedded in the ordinance, 2491 proposal that had come forward. And the idea was that there was going to be some fact-finding as the county tried to develop its own agricultural oversight of the biotech companies that, as you know, is what sort of died, although it's still being contested. But the idea remained. And people wanted to do that, especially Scott Enright. And the Department of Agriculture became the main funder of it. It was co-funded by the mayor's office, Bernard Cravalho. So it was a county-state initiative to see could we really get down to some facts. Because as you remember, the 2490 hearings were really all over the place. Yeah. So this wasn't mandated by the bill, but it was an initiative that Scott Enright got going in an attempt to try to get some real information here. That's right. Let's see if we can bring the slides together. So tell me about the joint fact-finding study. What did you do? Who was involved? What did you learn? It was the interesting, there are a tangle of questions about GMO. And that was evident in the 2490 winning hearing. Some people said, well, we're depleting the soil. And other people said, this corporate bad behavior from big biotech companies. And other people had health concerns about genetically modified plants. This focused on pesticides. So we had to kind of segregate the issues out and said, we're going to zero in on the question of the pesticides that are in use by these companies and whether there's any evidence of health harms. And there were lots of allegations that there were cancer clusters on the west side, birth defects. So there were a lot of allegations that people's human health and environmental health was being compromised by these pesticides. We worked very hard on this. And I personally was very involved in trying to assemble a group that had some diversity. I wanted all Kauai people, but people who were science educated and could sit in discussion. We had a number of people from the biotech industry. We had several doctors. We had plant scientists. So it was a good mix of people. And the idea was to really unpack the issues, unpack the questions, and see if we could find evidence. And that's what we did. The good news for, there's a little good news for everybody and a little bad news for everybody. So the industry itself, I think everybody, if I can say Senator, everybody reads a report like this and they pluck out what they want to hear and what they want to publicize. And I'm not familiar with that syndrome. I've noticed that. I've noticed that happening remarkably so with this report. I've clearly heard both sides claiming victory. That's right. So, but we didn't set it up as a battle in which there were gonna be victors and losers. We really were interested in the facts that we could assemble and the evidence. And that's the focus is on what's the evidence of the various claims. So for the industry, the really good news, I think genuinely is that there isn't a lot of evidence of the migration of pesticides into the human communities that are adjacent there. The good news for opponents was that the evidence is still slim and it really requires more study. So I think people said that's a really good starting point. And in fact, the study recommends a string of studies that the group hopes the state will take up. And I hope they will take it up. And did you guys do any actual going out and testing water? Did you analyze tests that had already been done that were on the record? No, this wasn't set up to do original new research. Analyzing what to build. Yeah, we were trying to pull together in one place everything that we could find out. So there, for example, we listed and reviewed all 15 of the environmental samples that we could put our hands on. Water studies, stream side studies, soil studies because people had done stuff. And so we pulled off all that together to see, well, is there any evidence in there that these pesticides that are being used are migrating into the environment? And if they were in the environment, were they migrating into the human populations? And so am I correct in summarizing that you didn't find any evidence of pesticide migration or health effects, but you also found areas where there was a lack of data? I think that's right. We didn't see real evidence of harm. There are in a few cases, there are pesticides that are currently used or but are in transition out that you could see some evidence of, but they were in very trace amounts. And to make a link between those trace amounts and some health conditions pretty challenging. But I think the caveat is that we all felt that the state hasn't done quite enough surveillance and studying of this. And we don't say that with criticism. We understand the Department of Health is strapped for work and the funds are being called on for many things. But if the state wants higher levels of certainty, it will have to do more investigation. So we heard during the 2491 debate, I heard a few medical doctors say they are seeing a surprising number of certain illnesses. Gastro schizzes, I think was one. You didn't find that the rates of these cases were above normal on quite? Well, that's an interesting point in particular because birth defects is one of the questions, whether there are clusters of birth defects on the west side. And there are two views. So the Department of Health's data doesn't show it. But some of the local doctors say, no, there are some things that the Department of Health is not picking up. So there's some reconciliation of data that actually needs to happen. And that's a problem of data coming out of the state generally and then data is difficult to get. So we didn't exactly conclude that these pediatricians on Kauai are incorrect. We simply don't have the answer to that question. That's right. And one of the things we tried to do in the report was encourage those physicians on the west side who thought that the Department of Health's data was wrong, get together, get together, review the cases, review the data, do it in the cone of silence and confidentiality and let's see if we can get to the real data, real facts, real evidence. That's what's missing. We're looking for evidence one way or another. What was the process like? We had a diverse group of people in this fact-finding study. We did. We did. And I tried, and myself and my colleagues, we had a team assemble to do this work. And we tried very hard to find people who, one, they were science literate. They could read studies or at least the abstracts and understand that. And second, whether it was on health, environment, biotechnology, pesticides, or whatever it might be. And second, we wanted a diversity of disciplines. So we had several doctors. We had plant scientists. We had a number of people who were actually farmers, including one who was a very strong organic farmer and very knowledgeable about pesticides. So I think everybody found, like the idea that there was a place that they could finally have a civil conversation. On the other hand, I think everybody's views imbue into the facts. And there's a natural phenomenon of that. We will, the science becomes a sorter, a shield in whatever debate you're in. And so I think it's hard for people to put aside their own biases. I think the group did as good a job as they could on that. So what would have been the biggest hurdles in gathering fact-based data, both pro and con, about gin, crops, and why? What were the limitations you came across? What could we do? Well, one was that we said one of the good things is that we actually pulled together in one place as much information as we could find and synthesize and then try to interpret in a way that would lead to logical recommendations. I think one of the challenges here again is that everybody's got a viewpoint. So my heart goes out to the people who were on this committee. They would go over to Costco or the Longs or any place and they're bumping into people saying, well, what are you doing? What's going on? What do you find? And here's my view. So it's doing this in a very small town just as it would be in your district. It's tough. Hawaii is a tough place because everybody knows everybody. There's a lot of crosstalk, a lot of cross-influency. So I think one of the hard things was for this group to sort of seal itself off from the rest of the community. A lot of blogging going on on this, a lot of newspaper reporting. So it's not like we were on a National Science Foundation panel in Washington stepped away. We were in the community and these were people from the community. I think that made it hard. That made it very difficult. On the other hand, the strength of that is it's not a couple of outside researchers who then get challenged because they're not from here. So a lot of quandaries in this work. I really commend this group. And I commend the Department of Agriculture and the mayor for taking it on and championing it. And I told you before, I think this is a long running battle, long running battle. These are not gonna get tied up in simple reports. And without giving away any confidentiality, how did the folks get along? This must have been some heated discussions, I imagine. Yes, I would say that, that's correct. There were people, I think, who argued and came on very strong with each other. But at least it was tried. They tried to, it was grounded in factual stuff. Again, the question was, well, if you're asserting an opinion, what's the evidence you're bringing to bear on that? So if you can ask that respectfully and fairly, I think that cuts through some of that. On the other hand, you make interpretations on what you have. And some people would say the cup is half full and some people would say it's half empty and some would say it's half full, but it's got some arsenic in it. So the interpretations when it came time to writing conclusions and recommendation was very challenging, but they did a good job. At the end of the day, I commend them. This is a very brave thing they took on. Did everybody sort of leave shaking hands, would you say? Yes, I think so. I mean, there were some hard feelings. And after, look, Senator, you work in an environment that's very similar where there's very strong, strong feelings. And this is a public issue and a tough one. So I don't think it's real different than that. It's hard to separate one's passions from the work that needs to be done. It is, isn't it? Yeah. We're here with Peter Adler. We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back discussing pesticides and the fact-finding study on Kawhi with a rudiment around table. Mahalo, see you in a moment. For a very healthy summer, watch Viva Hawaii. We're giving you the best tips and with our best health coach here. So Viva, health coach. Viva la comida saludable. Hi, my name is Justine Espiritu. This is my co-host, Matthew Johnson. Every Thursday at 4 p.m., we host the Hawaii Food and Farmers series. This is the place you can come to for insight on the perspective and history and passions of Hawaii's farmers and all folks involved in Hawaii's local food system. What kind of folks do we have on? So we have everyone from local farmers. We have foodies, chefs. We also have journalists, researchers, anyone who's actually working to help make Hawaii's local food system that much better. So join us every Thursday and tweet in us and ask us some questions and leave your comments as well. Thank you. And welcome back to the Rudiment Around Table. Our guest this week is Dr. Peter Adler, Hawaii's foremost mediator. And we're talking about the joint fact-finding study that he was just the convener of and some other subjects. Thank you once again, Peter, for being with us today. My pleasure. So the reactions to the report have been quite varied as we've discussed. What should folks focus on while reviewing the report? I would encourage people to read the beginning and read the end. And in particular, once you understand what the group was doing and chose not to do, and then go to the recommendations and ask the question, are these recommendations make sense? Are there any, which ones are objectionable and why? Because at the end of the day, it lands on those recommendations, which are really all to the state legislature and the governor and to the cabinet. Summarize for me those recommendations. What do they do? There are a couple of, I think the most important ones are some very specific recommendations for further studies. In other words, if we say we really want to get to higher levels of certainty about human health and environmental health, we need to do a few more studies. We need to monitor some of the water better, the both the near shore, off shore water, the stream water, we need to do better analysis of what's in the air, what's in the soil. And it's not that the state has done nothing, but it's not as conclusive. It turns out, actually from one of the state, the Department of Health studies, one of the most contaminated streams in pesticides is in Minoa Valley, where I live. So, and that's not a big agricultural area. Maybe it was in some previous areas. There are a lot of pesticides that are showing up that are legacy pesticides back from sugar and plantations. But I think what I would encourage people to do, and it's a short read, if you just go to the recommendations, read those. The other issue is another big issue that sits here, and probably the time isn't right yet to take it on. But one of the things that emerges out of all the health studies is the standards are set around acute exposures. And, you know, so if I go by my neighbor's, yeah, my neighbor is spraying malathion on her. And there's, I can really smell it, that's an acute exposure. The question is what is long-term chronic exposure? And this is a cumulative kind of thing because there are lots of pesticides that are in golf courses, in people's homes, in their, you know, gardens. So there's a cumulative exposure. But all the standards are set at acute levels and not at chronic levels. And that's a threshold issue for the future. Now the state can't, it really belongs to EPA. But at some point, we have, we live in a very chemical intensive environment. And at some point, that larger connection between the chemicals that are out there and people's health is gonna have to get taken up. And when you say it falls to the legislature and the state government to fill in these gaps, who's coolly on with that? Would that be the Department of Health? Would it be up to legislature to pass some laws authorizing some studies? Or is that something the Department of Health ought to be doing? Well, you know, my heart goes out to the Department of Health. They were very responsive to us on data and information, as was the Department of Ag. I think these studies, the burden on moving them forward sits with the Department of Agriculture and Department of Health. They need to work together, formulate the studies, make sure that they're of high quality. And I think, you know, I can't speak for Director Enright, but I think he's prepared to at least move some of those forward. And there was a little bit of funding that came at the end of this session to get that ball started. And they'll be back up asking you guys for some money. Good. Well, if it's up to me, it'll be money well spent. What was the biggest surprise while researching this report or in its conclusions for you? Well, it was a very controversial and there are plenty of cannonballs and spears and air flying through the air and in the media. And I think I have a certainly a thick skin about all that stuff and as you would, as yourself. The interesting thing was how people were reacting to the report and where they're taking their information about the report. And nearest I can tell, a lot of it is third-hand and fourth-hand. In other words, nobody actually read the report. But they said, well, that blogger said it was good or bad or that article in the op-ed piece in the newspaper said something. So their information is coming really at a distance. But very few people actually have studied the recommendations and they're not that long, you know, they're five, six pages. And that's where I think people's attention needs to go. Where could they find this report? It's on the website, which is, excuse me, it's a www.acord3.com and it's under projects and it's all there along with hundreds of pages of appendices and accumulated reports, references. We did a lot of bibliographic work on this as well. So it's on the Accord 3.0 website. That's right. Is it on any state government website? Is it the Department of Agriculture you haven't published? I think so, I don't know that and the mayor may have put it up on Kauai as well. I don't know that for sure. So the surprise to you is that people are already getting their information from someone else who told them what the report said instead of what the report said. With their own slant. So in other words, it's a problem of sort of making your own individual assessment based on primary reading of the report. But most people, I was just surprised how much of that was going on. It was very surprising. Isn't that so much of our society has changed from getting our news from one common source to getting our news from someone we agree with. That's right. We'll always tell you what you want to hear. It's a problem. Yeah, it is a problem. Tell me about mediation. What got you interested in mediation and what prompted you to have a career in it and why do you think it's important? I actually, when I went to college 250 years ago, it feels right. I actually started out, I thought I was going to be an aquatic biologist. So this is coming back around in some ways. I was a biologist myself. So I switched into sociology and economics and but I still have a certain love of science. But the sociology and the other social science work really led me into this area of conflict resolution, conflict management, preventing unnecessary conflict. I had the good fortune to be trained very early on by some native Hawaiian elders in Ho'oponopono that led to work with the original Neighbor Justice Center and then onward. And I've always thought I'm sort of, by DNA it sort of fits my temperament. Intellectually, I find it very interesting. I also am way beyond the missionary stage where I think it's good for everything. I think it's the right thing at the right time for the right moment and the right people. It's not a cure-all. It's not a panacea. But I continue to think that resolution, collaboration, concurrence is the coin of the realm in a increasingly pluralistic and divisive society. We've got to figure out strategies for doing that. So I've been doing this for a long time and now their mediation has now come full circle where it's well integrated into the civil justice system. I worked for the courts for several chief justices and helped them bring it into the court system. And now there's lots of people who are doing different sorts of medias. It's kind of now gotten very diverse and there's retired judges who do very good mediation on intensive litigation matters. There's people like myself and my colleagues who are interested in public policy, public affairs, community issues. There are people who work on lots of different areas and a lot of specialization that has developed in the last few years. Interesting. Now you also had some involvement in a mediation in my district where it had to do with the geothermal health studies. Is that right? Am I saying, calling it right? That's right. That was when the county asked you to convene a working group. And it was similar to this. It had some similarity. We were trying to really zero on finding the best most salient factual information we could. In this case, as you know, the allegations were that people in your district were being poisoned by hydrogen sulfide. That was the fear. So we were looking at as much data as we could to understand how much H2S comes out, where are other sources of H2S, what's coming out of the RIFT zone, what's coming out of the ORMAT plant. And what came out of that, again, this was set in motion by Mayor Kanoy. Was this after Hurricane Izzelle and the blowout that happened then? No, it was before. This was ongoing before that. Yeah, yeah. But it is after that 91 blowout. That was the big blowout, which really was quite an incident. Can I remember that? Yeah, so, and that was in the memories of a lot of people and wondering if some of the health effects are residual from that blowout. So we were taking up a lot of different issues and then one of the questions was really, what exactly are the studies that need to be done to monitor H2S? H2S is the rotten egg smell for those who don't know it. In gas, it comes out of sewers, it comes out of underground storage tanks, and in acute levels it can kill you. If you crawl down into one of those storage tanks, there's a few people who die every year from doing that kind of stuff. The question is, what's, again, what's the chronic effects of long-term exposure? I was just gonna ask about that because virtually all the toxicity studies in H2S have to do with acute one-time exposures, right? There's very little data on long-term low-level exposure just as we were talking about with pesticides on Kauai. And we canvassed a lot of literature on that. Really tried to look at the best literature we could find on chronic effects. And I think it's fairly inconclusive, although I think it leans more towards there's either no problems or very few problems that are generated by that. People in Rotorua and New Zealand live on top of those H2S emissions, and some of the studies have shown they really don't have a lot of negative effects. But again, reasonable people can read that differently. So this geothermal health group recommended a number of studies which are actually in motion and are being done. I know one of those was a health study that included native Hawaiian effects on native Hawaiians. And that studies I think in the process of being commissioned. But they also looked at, remember the old HGPA well, whether that had been closed well and whether there was some residual contaminants in there, which it turns out there weren't. So we took up a number of issues and a number of questions and it led to an investment of studies. And I think there's gonna be more that's being done on that. And besides the health study where there are other recommendations that came out of that? Well, one was to have, get USGS to do some water studies in Puna and see what was going on. And I think those either have been done or are in motion now. So there were a number three or four that were very important that would again raise the level of certainty. If we value higher levels of certainty about public health issues, these kinds of approaches are important. If we don't, if we say, well, we know enough and it doesn't look like there's a problem. I guess it depends which side of the coin you're on whether we want more information. I think that's right. So tell me, Peter, if people are interested in finding you as a mediator or finding a mediator that could help them with their problems, how could they get in touch with you? How could they reach you? Easiest way is on that www.acord3.com, which is the website. And there's 25 people on there. Their bios are there. Their references are there. Articles they've written are there. And people who say that one, that guy looks pretty good for... But these are in 25 nationwide, right? Well, and in some other countries as well. We have several people out of Australia, some people on the East Coast. I'd say someone in a neighborhood association wants a mediator over in my neighborhood where constantly they have... Can you recommend someone? They could go to the website. They could send an email to us. And we will try to, we always try to be very responsive. They can contact you through the website and they can help you if you can. That website is www.acord3.com. No, no, it's www.acord3.com. I'm sorry. www.acord3.com. We could get 3.0. Okay, good. All right, well, thank you very much, Peter. It's a pleasure having you here and I've learned a lot. Thank you for all that you do to help create more peace in our community. Thank you. I'm here with Dr. Peter Adler, a mediator, and we're here at the Ruderman Roundtable at ThinkDec, Hawaii. We'll see you again in two weeks, Tuesday afternoon, too. Hawaii.


Good morning everybody. This is a privilege to talk to the August audience here and what I'm going to share with you is the kind of opportunities which India is using within the paradigm of sustainable development and climate change issues and What are the remaining challenges they really need to address? It's interesting that India's Emission is in a better position in the sense that it's Despite being a very large country population wise has only 6.2% of the total emission share and also the per capita emission is less than two metric ton of CO2 We need to understand that what are the factors which are affecting this trend of emission in India I always say that there is a structural advantage for India in the sense that it is 60% service sector and which is less energy intensive Per unit of its output produced. So this puts India in a historical advantage position If you look into the emission trend over the years from 1990 I love this diagram to show because this shows that if we look into this then activity growth in India is Rising at a very faster rate and which is Understandable for the population growth rate and its growth trajectory But we can see that the energy the emission is really not Increasing at the same rate. So they are getting decoupled Gradually and what is really driving this decoupling is the energy intensity improvement and Although there is not much change in the feeble mix, which is so visible here in this scale But there has been a little bit of structural change but really what is driving is the energy intensity improvement and And If you look into the history of energy efficiency improvement in India, then you would see that it's the manufacturing sector which actually was the leader in implementing these energy efficiency improvement and This is another which I show in many a times is that so if you look into the decade of 70s manufacturing story You will see that it was so coupled the growth of the manufacturing sector was so closely coupled with the energy growth Then from mid of 1990s it really started the decoupling process And then you can see here how this is getting divergent with the activity growth So energy activity is growing at a very faster rate But you need less and less of energy to produce the same manufacturing output and that is due to the energy intensity improvement and Structurally also there is shift towards if you look into these then there is shift towards non-energy Intensive industries. So this is really I'm showing about the energy intensive industries and what they are doing So this transformational change has really happened due to several reasons one is the process technologies in the Energy intensive industries have undergone a huge change if you look into the cement industry You can see that how the process technology has really changed completely to the dry Processing and then for steel industry I'm not showing for all but for all the energy intensive industries the process technology has undergone a huge transformation and in that way it has actually Could it could catch up with the best available technology which is the horizontal line for each of the industries in terms of the specific energy Consumption and you can see that how over time this is really catching up with the best available technology in different sectors paper is a different story because This sector is very much dominated by the small paper units. So this this Catching up will take longer time But this has not happened just on its own so there was investment by the manufacturing sector Which they have made the private many of them where private manufacturing sector who have really invested And if you look into these then you can see that if we look into the levelized cost of carbon And then if we want to know that how much they have investment so far For reduction in this carbon emission how much has been spent then they have spent from different ranges from less than 20 US dollar per ton of carbon 200 US dollar per ton of carbon as well So it's very interesting to see that the cement industry which is really leading in catching up with the Global technology has actually invested the most and they have invested in the higher cost category also So this is so so much related to the investment made in different Sectors on the different methods of energy efficiency improvement and how they have really reached the best available technology so We tried to actually talk to the companies also this was all from the I mean the secondary data sources of the annual survey of industries, but then this is Talking to the companies we wanted to find out what is really driving this change So we wanted to talk to them and we talked to a very large number of companies across all different industries And we came up with this, you know the they all felt that to keep themselves competitive in the market They have adopted these measures. It's the influence of policy because energy conservation act was For a very long time in India in different forms and then price consideration of energy price has been rising very fast And then the consumer preference were also changing and the exportability So all these things really led them to Consider not only the energy saving but in different ways so they thought of recycling and they really went into recycling of raw materials and So how they can reduce the materials how waste material can be used so several steps actually have been taken by these Industries and so we can see that it's just not only the energy conservation measure But the renew penetration of the renewable energy technology with their Power generation because many of the industries have their captive power generation also So they have integrated that with the renewable energy technology and there has been energy savings measures of different kinds and They have also changed their feeble policy and they have changed how they can include I mean different kind of coal processing which are less emitting and then how they can replace the coal So all these success stories are good, but then we wanted to know that how we can go beyond that So is there any potential to go beyond that? So what we did was now we tried to take this in your specific data very detailed data At the four digit five digit level industry and then one of my PhD student worked with a GCAM modeling group in PNNL And then we tried to see that what does it mean? So what we do usually is we usually do the Producer behavior modeling econometric models and we try to see that how different feeble inputs are Responding to the price and the technology change So we look into the technological progress parameter That means the autonomous energy efficiency parameter estimate and then the elasticity Estimates and then we try to work with the GCAM model before I go to the GCAM model What I wanted to say here is that This shows how the inter-input relation is changing over time So I would say in 1993 when 1999 when they published our work in energy Journal then we could say that actually the any carbon price or carbon tax Will be reducing the productivity of the Indian industries because they are so much dependent on The energy Complementarity with other inputs, but now we are finding that they are getting in the substitute mode That means technology is changing in such a way so that now if you have carbon price Then actually they will be substituting away from the carbon intensive fee wells because they are ready for that through their Technological improvement and their behavioral responses as well So with that what we tried to do was in 2008 when India government came up with the national action plan on climate change they Tried to look into this market response of the industries and wanted to build in a new policy to Facilitate enhanced energy efficiency improvement Through creating a market mechanism like you ETS so they call it in India as perform achieve and trade So with that path system they created a Carbon so they did not call it the carbon market So they said that this is the energy efficiency improvement certificate market But you can convert it to one is to one into emission because it was targeted at fossil fuel consumption reduction So with that energy efficiency improvement so we wanted to know in the global model if there is a global carbon price What did it mean for the energy efficiency improvement of the Indian industries and where from it will come? so to get that insight to what we found was that if we just follow the Government policy of 2008 of energy efficiency improvement Then this is more so this is without any policy intervention the business as usual energy efficiency Improvement but with enhanced energy efficiency improvement with that scheme we can get this much But we can really pull it down further if there is a global carbon price now the question is Where from this potential will come? So the answer was that the potential will actually come from the non energy intensive industries Which are outside the policy domain right now and actually government is thinking in terms of expanding its path scheme To the non energy intensive industries So we found that so that thinking is in line with what we are also Finding in this direction. So that is a good policy match, which we could see But it would mean that there has to be massive electrification of the industrial processes And in that also the what we found was that all those things can be achieved the enhanced efficiency and the global carbon price scenarios with the With the feeble mix change in the electricity sector. So now this is coal dominated, but it has to be all I mean zero carbon In that sense because these fossil fee well sector is also with CCS and this is nuclear share And this is renewable. This is the model results But if you look into so what we did after that was we took a deeper dive into the power sector itself And wanted to see what is happening within the power sector So what we could see is that yes power sector installed capacity is going up The demand is going up which are just to give a picture of the sector But if you look into the by 2017 feeble mix, then you can see that What is happening is the dramatic increase in the renewable sector? So the model result showed that we I mean that model was set up in such a way So the nuclear share was coming up more, but then we can see that practically it's the renewable energy which is increasing its share dramatically and that's how this is really trying to reduce the cold share and If you look into the capacity expansion, which is happening over past Two three years and what is planned over next five years, then you can see that how different sectors are going to add up to their install capacity and Although we can see that still coal is not out of the Table or for the policymaker, but we have to think what can be done But I'm just trying to show that what is there So this is this is quite a bit of challenge which needs to be looked into definitely and So I'm not just not going with this. So what we have so this is something which is promised in the so if we build the NDC the national determined Contribution which was promised by Indian government in Paris So if we follow the NDC scenario and we try to see what will be the Install capacity and generation by 2050 then we can see that still Thermal generation will be 40 percent. So this is something which we nearly need to be taking care of and then This is only the NDC scenario, right? So this is the renewables will be the install capacity will be 47 percent But then we can see that the renewable generation will be Contribution will be much less or we all know the reason, right? So this is something which we really need to keep in mind that NDC scenario is really not making Zero-carbon power sector for India. So we have to look for further Improvement and that's a challenge definitely which we should keep in mind But what has led to all these changes? This is interesting to see that The policy intervention so market was working but also the policy intervention has happened And so the states where you see the share is more you can see that they have adopted more than so They have taken a systematic approach and then they have Changed multiple things to make the renewable energy penetration faster the states with more Systemic approach have achieved more and with the lesser ones have achieved less So this is something which is important to note and this is some this is something which is also important to note That not everything is success story for India energy efficiency was a real success story because they had a very good institutional structure market mechanism in place and history of Industries responding to market for energy efficiency improvement was also there So they were almost ready and so they brought in a new structure to enhance that But in case of biodiesel mission, it was a real failure I always try to show why they have failed because the national biodiesel mission was really very badly articulated very badly Structured in the sense that while here the price incentive was very rightly constructed Here price incentive was really bad. It could not see the uncertainty in price It could not integrate with the fossil fuel sector where it is going to compete with so farmers really did not get the incentive So what happened was that the 20% share which was envisaged was only less than 2% so this has really not taken off and So this is something which I'm just not going. Yeah, so this is the same thing which I said But success story of the manufacturing sector was also because there were several Supporting factors the service the energy efficiency service sector itself has expanded a lot and there has been different kind of incentive scheme just not the price just not the Pat scheme and the market in energy certificate Trading but then there were award scheme So if you are best performers, so you are publicly awarded and so all these things really led to The good performances in the manufacturing sector So there is lot to learn from what has happened and this learning is actually getting integrated into the New efficiency led policies for the residential sector also So that is also a very successful story But which I'm not going to tell you now and thank you very much Are there any follow-up questions for Joshary? Yes in the frontier make up you hello from Finland As you probably know Finland was the first country to introduce carbon pricing in the world 89 but We have not been very good in keeping it up and the European Union was very good in promoting a global carbon tax for the key of the protocol, but now the European Union does not want to talk even about global carbon tax because Taxing is an issue of national sovereignty How can we get the world to accept global carbon tax? Which is seen as an absolute necessity by many scientists Perhaps you are among them and and James Hansen who is one of the leading climate scientists is also the same view. Thank you To start with this is my thinking right so it need not be a global carbon tax at the beginning But what these studies are showing now is that in all the countries the The huge change in the technology penetration over past 20 years that has happened has Made them ready to take a energy price hike. So let me see it that way, right? So from that point of view each country can have their own system Initially like if I talk about the performative and trade if you talk of the EU ETS, right? So within the EU performative and trade is within India China also has similar systems So many countries have similar system. So I would see that so for next five or six years Maybe it will go this way so every country will be prepared for that and then Gradually you come up with a global carbon price because unless you have a global carbon price You cannot manage the global common bad or good, right? So from that point of view you do need but I would say that Nationally we can continue but encourage national actions in that direction now So there is a preparedness like CDM, right? So CDM was not meant for staying a longer life But then that really prepared a the The different parties to see how they can Respond to a new market mechanism and where there is a carbon trading kind of thing really happens I would say in India that really changed the behavioral pattern and that created an Enthusiasm for the good performer and so they have led the whole process So this performative and trade is also led by them So I think we need to be really looking into the process and trying to see how the new system can evolve So one will have one two questions will go together and answer right here Okay, I know absolutely nothing about the energy sector and energy production in India. So I have two questions one Your NDC indicates that you are going to be Concentrating on nuclear power Can you say anything about the reprocessing of waste? How is that going to be handled in the future and? Secondly, is there any work going on in India on carbon capture and storage? To start from the lot, okay, sorry. Well take a few questions. Yeah, James. It was a really interesting story I was very very made very optimistic by your initial slides which showed how much has already been done without a carbon tax to shift to reducing energy intensity and it seemed to me then that You were essentially saying that this isn't going to be enough and that you need a carbon tax on top of that And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what the pushback might be from Manufacturing that is already doing so much that now has to then face an additional cost of carbon and then what does it mean for energy tariffs and And the many poor people who are still in India who presumably the demand for electricity is going up The energy is going up more broadly, you know What is the political economy around this policy and who's likely to lose the most from this this policy? Thank you We have room for one more question My question sort of links to James's in terms of the energy efficiency change that has been seen in India So you mentioned that the significant gains that have been made have been made in sectors where they are sort of larger industries So my question is more around in those sectors where Most of the indices are smaller and maybe it's less easier for them to sort of switch their technologies What support measures can we put in place to sort of help? These industries move towards becoming more energy efficient. Thanks Let me just answer this question first which is most common among all of them is that Energy efficiency measure has already happened so much. So what is more? Incentive so number one I would say that when the enhanced energy efficiency improvement Program was introduced by government of India on top of what was happening Anyway with the industries was the Articulation that it's going to support those industries who are performing better So how you negotiate with the industry association the big industries? So there was large Number of or rounds of discussions. So they were brought in so government did not do it So bureau of energy efficiency was the institution who was driving this and they were talking to the industries quite a bit And they wanted the leaders who were doing better to come up and say that yes They are going to do so it initially the target was negotiated with them So in a sense, I would say that it was kind of incentive for them begin at the beginning for the good performer And so that really created a Trading mechanism within the industries so other low performer once then tried to save on their cost and so the and Simultaneously there was energy Efficiency service companies escows grew up in a very large number and because that was also a Initiative associated with the path scheme. So I think these both of these together so articulation with the industry coming up with the escows and The price determination on the energy certificates really created the whole Business ambience for these to happen now why they will take the higher burden again, so At least talking to the companies we found that they really look for more advanced technology they are always in lookout for more advanced technology and These large industries are competing in the export market. So they want to be ahead of others So that is a major incentive Which they are thinking so it is not about Them taking these but then whatever is happening They're trying to get adjusted because they have historically done that and that is putting them in an advantageous position And which they want to Take it Further so industry associations are playing a very important role in India for this for making meetings For taking them to see what the new technologies are so making all these things are really doing a great job And for the small ones there are like the small manufacturing forums, right? So they are now participating with these large industry Associations also and they're trying to see and also they are collaborating with different universities like in my past university So we were collaborating with them with the technical support that how the small firms can get their new innovation So that in maybe incremental but at incremental step how they can go forward and they are where like the energy Award scheme and etc. Which were the financial incentive from the government. So this is about the small and but they are still lagging behind and But for the new ones they are also thinking in terms of performative and trade expanding it So from based on the success story, right and this performative and trade is now almost there for six seven years So it has shown okay, so just two things so for the nuclear now The real expansion is in the renewable sector So a nuclear is also in agenda, but they are thinking in terms of so there is huge research effort going on So that how you can get the thorium based Generation with less waste and less waste handling problem So these are new technologies which are under trial So when I talk to the Department of Atomic Energy, I get this view But it's more on the renewable sector the NDC is inclined and for CCS I would say that very little very little there is discussion, but very little progress and For poor when energy price is going up. What is happening for the poor? So basically what we need to see is that poor needs to have some kind of separate price So that will what it happens is that if we just look into the basic microeconomics, then it is the market Opportunity will be reducing for them. So you can increase the market opportunity either by the vouchers cash transfer or different kind of thing or You have the price Subsidized so right now the government is going through the cash transfer kind of thing So that you give market access through income generation So more targeted programs because subsidy sometimes just doesn't go to the targeted groups So this is a revision which is happening. So I think that That is being that is tried out in different ways and I think I'm in India is Now more or less with the flow that yes energy price will be rising coal price has gone up So much if I show the graph you will not see the end. So it is happening


The day of reckoning the knee is feeling amazing I'm not racing the Houston Marathon today when you're watching this sadly, but it means that I have found Good health through this rehab process. So to the point where yeah, I could play a little b-ball outside the school All right, come on Oh score, okay. All right. Good game guys. Okay, Joseph. Take your take your coat off Okay, everyone b-ball game outside the school is over again. There's no way I could have done this two weeks ago I would have been way too painful right Joseph my knee, but it's feeling better. Why? Optimism taking kid doing the little things in fact I'm off to the gym here in a minute and It's just it's a bittersweet cheering on cofusie and everyone else down there in Houston But it's bigger bittersweet not being there, but at the same time it's like now I don't have to deal with who knows weeks and weeks months and months of serious ridiculous Pain in my knee so overall Unexcited. All right. Let's go. Come on. So I forgot to unload the car last night. We're starting to buy Rebuy so what we do when we have a new child is we buy stuff secondhand Pinching pennies right off of a Facebook marketplace or Craigslist like this and then we just resell it and Sometimes we actually make a profit Here's the little there's a baby day the baby day a little update on the baby the baby is by Right around the corner. We're talking three to four weeks. So we are in Preparation mode. All right. Here we go My goodness I was telling the YouTube family about the bassinet and about how we are getting ready What else and how sometimes we make a profit? We make a profit You're losing you need to be making at least $50, right? We buy everything we need sell it when you're done and you turn profit And what is this thing? Boom look out Seth. Sorry, buddy. Excuse me. Oh, boom. It it rocks the baby Winning winning. No, okay. Let's put it out the window here and this kid doesn't have to sit on top of it If you think that way No tea time Michael tea time Do you see us are we jumping Michael boom What'd you guys build? Oh a dinosaur jail.  Yeah, let's go Yeah, oh Okay, oh This and that okay got me. I I think the knee is good ladies and gentlemen I think the knee is good. This is getting exciting if I can rough and tumble with Michael I can hang with the best of them, right buddy Yeah, Michael watch ready someone's following me what it what early Now cuz then they can unload it and then reload Huh, it's all about staying a step ahead leftover night Huh and leftover nights sometimes the best night divine true love Leftover nights can't forget about leftover nights, right? Build it in always is It's coming good job guys holding down that side of the table But my bread onward and upward out to the studio staying positive staying positive. Where am I right now? I'm in the studio in Denver, Colorado. Where am I not? I'm not in Houston, Texas It's a little bittersweet, you know, I'm just being very transparent with all of you I got wish I was in Houston, right? I Lacing it up in the more actually when you're watching this I would be lacing it up doing my warm-up getting ready to go Hopefully crushed 26.2 miles, but it wasn't meant to be this time around, okay?  Oh, this is crazy The little tip of the day is as far as remaining positive Through running injuries through the niggles through the times when you're like wait a minute I was so close to my goal even though I wasn't with Houston like there's no way I could have ran through that pain For another three and a half weeks is when I think yeah over three and a I think it was almost Yeah, three and a half weeks approximately when I decided to call it for the Houston marathon because of the runner's knee Therefore tip of the day just and this is like really really practical. It's not like philosophical pie in the sky You have and this is the the pain scale Journal, okay, so if you have a piece of paper or maybe notes on your phone Take down notes every single day whatever injury you're dealing with it could be anything You know we runners we come up with a lot of crazy injuries So take a journal and write The pain that you're experiencing today tomorrow the next day and then What I'm doing right now and how I'm staying positive despite not being able to race Houston right now I'm staying positive because today in the gym playing basketball with the boys doing some doing some crazy You know playing with the boys in the house Zero on the pain scale. Where was I two and a half basically actually three weeks ago now? 21 days ago. I was at a seven or an eight and unfortunately I have to I have to Heed my own advice. I have not been writing out my pain scale I need to I feel like by the vlog is part of my pain scale journal, but um, I should be writing down Three weeks ago 21 days. I was I was a seven or an eight and that's when I called it I woke up and I was walking around my house 21 days ago and I said, uh-uh. I cannot do this for another three weeks until Houston and yeah, I'm so Grateful that I called it and I'm so grateful that I have the memory To remember the pain from three weeks ago and the pain now meaning zero. All right, so that's my little take-home message It's bittersweet It would have been fun to meet all of you in Houston But now it's insane like I wish I had a little bit of a crystal ball Because if I would have pushed through the pain I don't think I would have been able to but if I did and if I raised Houston How I almost wish I would have done it just to experience like to see okay What kind of recovery time would I have needed? I think I would have been so beat up It would have been ridiculous. So I'm not I'm glad I called it Anyway, it's just it's just I'm so grateful now that 2020 is kind of saved because who knows how long I would have been out if I would have If I would have pushed through The pain. All right, so I love you all. Thanks for watching today's vlog Just a good old family day here in Denver here in the studio and onward and upward to the next goal and Just so you know, I'm honing in on the next marathon. In fact, true love and I we almost bought plane tickets today We're still will see which means I basically have decided what marathon I'm gonna do I'm not it's not quite there yet, but we're we're honing in we're oh It's definitely not London after yesterday's vlog where we announced the Kipchogi versus the K-Lade battle So it's not gonna be London. So that kind of narrows it down for all of you But onward and upward. All right, I think that's it question of the day Have you ever and yeah, I'm gonna open this up.  It sounds so it's such a runner thing to say have you ever had a pain journal or an injury journal that's another way and Honestly, actually I have had one in the past. I don't have one now or what is your other strategy for? Tracking your progress through a running injury. Okay, like what is your how do you do it? How do you try? Maybe it's just word of mouth. Maybe it's calling a best friend every day I don't know. Let us know down. Like what it how do you track your injuries? Okay? I love you all no Houston marathon, but we're gonna make it and Shout out again to everyone who raced through the streets of Houston today. All right, everyone We're gonna toss it back to a vlog from about nine months ago Where I talk about how I strive through running injuries how I try to remain positive And then I'll thought toss it back to my 20 20 goals now that I feel like the the goals are now attainable Because my health is returning. Okay. All right, everyone. See beauty work hard and love each other. See you tomorrow


Hi Moz friends, I'm Oli King. I'm a user researcher here at Moz and I'm excited to join today for another edition of Whiteboard Friday. Today I'll be talking to you about the next search intent. In the previous Whiteboard Friday, I mentioned the three bosses of SEO and one of the factors that I mentioned affecting SEO are the search intents behind each and every search. So everyone performing a search on a search engine is looking for something and the search intent is the purpose behind that search. And as an SEO, satisfying that search intent is critical to the success of your content. Brittany Miller has a very in-depth Whiteboard Friday on this topic already so I'm not going to be covering that. Logan Bryant also has another topic called the eat and search intent so that's something you should check out as well. But today I'm going to be talking about what happens after you've satisfied the initial search intent, so the next search intent. So what's next search intent? Well, if you're looking at a search as a journey, the next search intent is the next step on a searcher's journey. That is what someone will most likely be looking for next after they've completed the objective of a particular page.  So why is this important? Well SEO is not just about ranking. In order to really maximize your effort for SEO, you have to start thinking about how are your pages converting? How do the pages move people into next stages in your funnel, so funnel optimization. What's the user experience for your searchers? What's the customer journey like and how are they engaged with the relevant contents that you want them to be engaging with? And how is this up in you retain your ideal customers or searchers? And how is each and every content into linking with other piece of content that you have on your site? And also the traffic distribution as well. So how are you moving traffic from the top performing pages into pages that might not be getting as much traffic? So how do you perform, you know, how do you implement next search intent? Well, the goal of next search intent is really to identify what people are most likely to search for next and then not the searchers into those next actions. So you can do this with simple call to actions, embeds on pages and links from one page to another. Or you can get more advanced by tweaking your nav bar, making things a bit customized, adding a read next section to each one of your pages, having lunches that pop up. So many different ideas. Very much your goal is just to think of a particular page and think as a user, as a searcher, what would I most likely need next after I've consumed this information. So some ways to get ideas is to understand your searcher's persona. Look at similar keywords that might be related to what your page is ranking for. Look at other ranking keywords that you are ranking for as well. Look at what your competitors are ranking for that you might not be ranking for. This might give you ideas of your blind spots for content that might not be relevant for your particular page, but other related pages. Understand the curiosity journey. So this is like customer journey, but instead of looking at your funnel, you're trying to look at, in terms of an information, let's call it map, what would someone want to know about next. Focus on the user experience as well. Finding the most relevant information always helps with a good user experience. Check your Google Analytics and see what pages are people visiting when they land on a particular page. That will give you clues into what next page or next intent that they want. And you can also look on Google, just search for a keyword and you can see for some keywords that people search next as well. And that's the most obvious way to find the next search intent. So how do you do this? So well, if you watch Britney's video or other information around the search intent, you would understand that there are four main types of search intent. So informational, commercial, navigational and transactional. So for informational, your goal is really to provide a good user experience and to optimize your funnel so that you can move people or searches from one page to another. So you can do this by surfacing related content and then linking to your relevant pages on your site. For the commercial one, your goal is for conversion because commercial is just about I purchase intent. So you can do this by adding comparison of your competitors products or similar products that you have on your site, adding coupon, discount and answering any objections that someone might have. So be proactive on the information that they would need before they need it and then surface it onto your page. And navigational, the goal is also good user experience, retaining people onto your website and making sure you optimize your journey so that traffic can flow from one page to the most relevant next page. You can do this with launchers that pop up as users perform certain actions on the page. You can have customized nav bars. You can have set up your site links correctly so that from the search engines that becomes apparent what page people can visit as well. So for transactional, this is someone already knows what they want and they're just trying to buy things. And your goal in this case is just to convert and upsell.  And you can put a little demo as well to help the user searchers who might be looking for out your product works in real life by be proactive and have that on your page. Yeah, so that really is the next search intent. If you have any ideas that I might have missed, please don't hesitate to reach out. And I would love to learn from you as well. The main key points to learn about this is when it comes to SEO, you want to think about things in an holistic way. You don't want to just look at one page on your site. You want to look at how each page connects and understanding the next search intent allows you to bring value from one page that is performing well to other pages on your website so that your entire site can be blooming. But yeah, thanks for joining me today and see you next time.