I'm gonna be looking over here a lot because my my stuff is over here. I have all my Stream live stuff over there on that monitor.  I scheduled it, but When I I don't know I screwed something up there. So nobody even knows this is happening, but I Have a guest today. Some of you guys may have seen A couple nights ago. I did a debate on the hippie-to-pee debate stream with Dylan Burns and we talked about a little bit about kids and cages and that whole narrative and Somebody from that stream wanted to come on and talk with me on that topic So I said come on in and let's give it a shot. I know I don't usually do a Tuesday Discord live chat stream. So that's probably why most people don't even know what's going on But I have done it before and you know, I might get into a consistent pattern here at some point But for right now, it's just sort of whenever I feel like doing it So if you feel like coming on and chatting with us You can go ahead and join my discord server, which the link will be right there in the description I'm sure some people will post it out there so that you can join us once you get into the chat just join the call-in waiting room and I'll bring you in and that will probably be in about 15 to 30 minutes something like that. Maybe As soon as I'm done talking to liberal clock who I guess wants to have a discussion about kids and cages I don't know if we're gonna disagree a whole lot But we'll see I'm gonna go ahead and bring him in here. Give me just one second Liberal clock. What's up, buddy? A lot. Oh awesome fantastic.  So sweet We can do introductions. I guess introduce. Yeah, go for it. Who are you? Tell us about your channel Why you're here all that good stuff? So I am liberal clock. I do politics and gaming streaming mostly politics. I'm not a very good gamer on YouTube and Twitch I The main focus around my streaming channel is to try and have productive conversations around politics Mostly with people of the opposite that you know disagree with me because it's not productive just you know Agreeing with each other and circle joking in that way on either. It's not it's it's boring to watch It's boring to do so. Yeah, I seek out a lot of conservatives. I started my channel Pretty much going on to like conservative reddit and finding some people from there And I found a lot of great people to have conversations with and they've stuck around my community They're the most active ones despite being like in the minority as terms of numbers. They're the most active ones in my discord So that's that's kind of cool Yeah, and I am here today because I saw you on the hippie-dippy podcast recently and You said some stuff that for lack of better words triggered me just a bit and it It wasn't necessarily just you it was because I was dealing with a lot of people saying the same thing Well, I say dealing with as if I don't do this as a hobby, but you know, it's it's but I was you know talking to people on Twitter that were staying kind of the same things and and yeah, I Kind of try to jump on the opportunity be able to have this conversation With somebody who is more I'm assuming you're more knowledgeable than your average Twitter person And you know over voice chat too, which is important because having political conversations on Twitter is toxic Yeah, you want to introduce yourself to what little audience I may have yeah, absolutely I don't have a much bigger audience because and I apologize for that.  I didn't I didn't schedule it Correctly. I I think I put it on a different I think I it's for scheduled for tomorrow or something because it's not showing and so My viewers don't really know about it, but I think they'll they'll start to trickle in here And usually I can get around 150 people or so so we'll see if that happens My channel is basically just about media bias. I try to inject a little humor into it I know that's kind of the flavored de jure these days, but I got into this way back in like 2004 maybe earlier than that even early 2000 even and I've been really hooked on it ever since I I saw how the media was at the beginning of bush and then how it kind of evolved and then going into the Obama administration How they treated that administration and that kind of fueled my Desire to tell people basically to turn off your TVs because the media is lying to you on a regular basis And I'm not you know, you might call me a conservative or a right winger Which I guess I am by today's standards, but you know two decades ago. I was a liberal so I don't know I Basically the only thing I really care about is You know, I don't care about what gay people do in their homes.  I care about the standards that our mass media basically enforces across The country now even like normal state, you know citizens compared to the standards they hold Their party too and I say their party because the vast majority media are Democrats and we can get into that at some point if you want to but Yeah, that's pretty much it. I get on and I ran it's just about every day I try to stay consistent daily about the media and I'll usually pick a story and focus on that And then occasionally I do these live streams where we talk about topics like this I've been wanting to get some discourse in here because Frankly most of people in my discord are like-minded, right? And we have these discord chat streams, but it's like it's it's you know, it's just preaching to the choir essentially So yeah, I wanted to do more things like this. That's why I jumped on it when you offered and speaking of jumping We jumped up to 20 viewers. So hopefully it'll get better. Oh fantastic, I Yeah, I'm not so like I'm glad that we're gonna have people watching But I am not under any impression that I'm going to be getting any more viewership from your audience because I Feel like unless I mean, maybe that's unfair. Maybe your audience is is interested in seeing people that disagree with Yeah, yeah, well, I mean The conservatives that I have in my community have really surprised me in a lot of ways. So Yeah, so maybe maybe I'm just being a little bit of a bigot Oh No, I could definitely see where you might get that idea because I mean politics It's a lot like, you know Professional sports for a lot of people and they get really like You know, they feel like if you challenge the things that they believe they take that personally, you know And I'm not saying everybody I actually find very few people that are like really hardcore like that Personally me, you know if you can prove me wrong or what I believe I am completely open to that Because you know, I don't want to be believing a bunch of BS, you know, just like anybody Yeah, okay, so um, I Wanted to start out talking to you because this is this is the thing that I saw on the hippie-dippie that they really got me interested in talking to you immigration and mainly from the purview of Biden Obama and Trump and what they're doing around immigration I am not going to Subscribe is that the word? Obscribe, I don't think that's what I'm not going to put any words in your mouth about what you may believe I'm going to give you a chance to explain your position If you would like I can explain to you where where my problems lied and maybe you can have a chance to respond to that Okay, sounds good to me So on the hippie-dippie podcast that you were on The the the topic of kids and cages came up and You seemingly Had the take that what Obama is doing was doing at the border and what? Biden is doing at the border is the same as what Trump is doing at the border and was doing Or was doing yeah, yeah, and I guess if you look at just the idea that kids are in cages You know at you know at some point You can make that argument But there are so many differences That we can go through that that in my opinion just makes what Trump was doing So much worse not that I would defend Obama for how he handled everything and Biden I'm still kind of like a let's wait and see what happens. Yeah, I think he's on a good trajectory But um, but yeah, I'm not going to defend Obama, but I think that what he did Was way better than what Trump did I mean so I guess my question would be where like what do you think is so different? So I understand that what when it came when it came to Trump they had a no tolerance Policy so basically anybody who came across the border that was illegally over the border and was apprehended They were put through the system They were separated not based on Trump's policy Well because they were gonna be held longer than 72 hours because of the flora's decision They had to be separated and so and but then they ended up being held longer because they were going through this process now you can You know, is are we are we agreeing on that? The thing is is that I mean that's essentially the difference is that the kids were held longer under Trump Well, they were also just immediately Separated under Trump which which didn't happen underneath Obama Well, I like happened immediately because they already knew they were gonna be there longer than 72 hours Yeah, so so you it sounds to me like you're putting blame on the the separation on the forest decision They would that be accurate or right like it wasn't like I mean you can say that Trump And I think there there is even transcripts or something where they said oh, you know This is a good deterrent that we're holding them separately And I pointed out during the hippie-dippie livestream that that's the whole reason the floor has decision came into play in the first place was that All these groups were immigration groups were coming in saying you're keeping the kids in prison In these cages, you know However, you want to say it with their parents as a deterrent because we don't want these kids in these horrible prison conditions But you're keeping them there with the parents. So they said, okay, we're gonna separate them So that's how that happened and then because Trump was Prosecuting or they were you know going through the legal process with each one It was taking longer and thus the kids were there longer So the thing is is the the florist decision was a decision that Happened, I believe under the Clinton administration, right? That's correct, right? Which means that But and Obama had had to abide by the florist rules and they didn't have to separate children Well, they did way that no they did they were absolutely separating them But I think what happened in those cases was essentially the After the 72-hour period they essentially just let them into the country is what happened Yeah, you're talking about catching release, which is it was just an issue a thing that I do want to touch on But you say they separated children from their parents They didn't do it by policy when there was no Sufficient of any type of like neglect abuse or or these people not being their parents It wasn't like that where it was like that under Trump children were absolutely 100% separated from their parents dude, and it's been going on for that's one of the things I wanted to find here I told you about earlier and you might know who I'm talking about you might be able to help me out here Since you really know a lot about this topic. There's a woman her name. I think is Maria something she's She as a preff professional in all this she's a regular on MSNBC She was on with Stephanie rule and they were talking about this back when this was going on I'm gonna find this clip but Essentially Stephanie rules like this has never happened before this is brand new with the Trump administration, right? And she's like wrong and she's like oh, I'm wrong. She's like yes This has been going on for 20 years They've been separating children and she even mentions the flora's decision and she said this has been going on for 20 years and even longer and I think that and we can get into this I think part of the reason we and you can say you can sit here and tell me that's never happened I don't know how you know that. How do you know that? It's never happened that right I mean I already know that it has and I can cite things, but I'm just wondering how you know that Yeah, so wait when I say it's never happened I'm talking about these administrations didn't put it as policy that they were going to separate the children I'm sure within practice So children have been separated from their families for various reasons. Maybe there was like suspicion of of Malfeasants from the parents part and it took a little longer than 72 hours for them to sort that out So they had to separate the child for a little bit until that was sorted out and stuff like that But it wasn't like under the Trump administration where they come in with their children and it's just immediately This is we're taking him.  I'm gonna put these kids I'm gonna separate them from their parents, huh? It's literally like they wanted to Trump wanted to Process every illegal apprehension through the system period. It wasn't about like Separate, I know later. They were like, oh, well, this could be used as a deterrent. I understand that that did happen Steve Miller, maybe I think said that but Initially at least it was happening because that was just the process if the parents were gonna be held longer than 72 hours The children had to be separated. So And I had another point to that Yeah, I had another point there, but I forgot but essentially what I'm saying is like This has been going on for so long and it really has to do with the law and the fact that the the the Florida's decision said that They had to be separated. So, you know, in the whole the whole narrative against Trump Started with the Obama administration. I know you already said that you don't you're not defending them And I understand that but part I think of why And I'm not even like defending Trump because I don't think that they handled it Totally right. I'm not saying that even But I don't think that Trump deserves like this The blame he's getting in and I predicted this also by the way And a lot of this stuff is predictable because it wasn't a scandal under Obama and you know, it's funny I went and I don't want to talk forever here. I'm sorry if I'm going too long But I I found articles I went through and I found articles that were written under the Obama administration about over Overfilled detention centers and everything and bad conditions which include pictures of kids and cages laying on the floor Those articles many of them many of them, especially in PR Don't ever even mention Obama's name and I actually reached out to these journalists to ask them Why you know, why did you do this story and Obama's name doesn't even show up and they're like? Oh, well and in the case those stories had to do with a lawsuit They're like, oh, well Obama's name wasn't mentioned in that but it's like that's a shit excuse because they're his detention centers And so I guess my point is that maybe you think this is maybe you think it was so much worse under Trump purely because of media propaganda Okay, unless unless you can prove to me otherwise. I I don't know that this wasn't happening under Obama or Clinton or Bush Okay, so I think that it this is a a this makes Trump more more culpable Because of his zero zero tolerance policy and the the line of logic that I would use to defend that would be It would go like this Trump wants to Wants to prosecute every illegal border crossing That that comes from south of the border In order for him to do that. He is going to have to buy policy Separate children from their families and lock them up in detention centers Until processing of their until the court, right? So correct I as a as a president or I wouldn't want my president to make it the the Calculation that prosecuting every single border crossing is worth the the Turmoil that you are putting these families through that that's why I don't Well, that's why I put more blame on Trump. Okay. Now. I will say I will give you a couple things if it does come out to the case that That Obama was doing this in a much more egregious way than what I am under the impression that he would I will wholeheartedly this this, you know Agree that that that is just as bad I am under the impression right now that while what Obama did was bad It's not the way I would want things happening at the border It is still not as bad as Trump because of that zero tolerance and the fact that Trump got rid of Catch and release which allowed a lot of people to Do not be separated under other administrations. I'll just say that Past presidents were basically just ignoring immigration law to be compassionate and get favorable media coverage Or you can say compassionate because like what Bush they called it compassionate conservatism if you remember and Then Obama and essentially what that meant is that they were just ignoring federal immigration law and then Trump comes in He's like no, I'm gonna enforce immigration law So it's like if you have a problem with that immigration law then change the law through the usual means like don't blame Trump I mean Trump gets about and it's funny How much of that was bolstered with like misquotes and shit by the media purpose purposeful misquotes like you know He called Mexicans rapists and all that when in fact, I'm not saying he's an eloquent guy, but he didn't say that He said that like some illegal immigrants are rapists and murderers like he Had no way did he say it was you know all Mexicans But they they use misquotes like that and repeat it over and over over to bolster this idea I I would just say like you say that it wasn't going on as much or you don't as far as you know It wasn't going on as badly under Obama and as far as children at the border you might have It wasn't going on as badly and it wasn't going on for the same reasons, but go ahead Well, you're right because Obama wasn't he was ignoring federal immigration law. Yeah, okay, right?  Thank you Um, you you want the executive branch to have this kind of discretion right or else you there's gonna There would be all kinds of a creature's things happening from the executive Okay, so I guess where I would agree with you weren't and that's why I say we probably won't have too big of a debate on this is that Trump could have handled it better and kids were and which none of us want kids I mean I have kids of my own and I think most people are not insane Psychopaths and don't want kids, you know being treated badly or or any of that But I think here's the thing And I had another point that I'm already forgetting because I'm getting on to another point, but um Like a lot of people the way they feel is that we didn't ask these kids to come here We didn't or we didn't ask these parents to send these kids as huge armies across our you know huge mobs across our borders and Trump had actually Really slowed that down a lot of people weren't coming But then Joe Biden gets in and suddenly we're getting flooded again because he he basically put out come on in you know Come on in which I think is weird because we're just getting out of coronavirus We're just gonna like bring all these people in and send them on off on their way And hopefully they do the testing, but I know that's up in the air I Don't I don't think we're gonna have too much a debate on that stuff. I just I Don't like for example, let me give you an example Obama Separated as far as separation that I mentioned this earlier not at the border This is not at the border, but as far as deportations go he separated Tens and tens of thousands of families like I want to say I don't remember exactly But I'm gonna say it's around 60 or 70,000 kids our families separate from their children now those kids went into like foster care and things like that but You know there seem to be a lot of emotional emphasis put on this separation part of this And I guess my point is that was never a big story. That was never a scandal Nobody hates Obama for separating children from their family there They don't hate Obama for keeping the kids in the cages and my problem in all this is that and I mentioned it earlier during the Introduction that I have a real problem with how these standards are enforced You do you know what I mean by that So I think that you should spend a little bit more time on my on my wing of the left because We are extremely hard on Obama for for the maybe not the mainstream And I'm sure you I can find go online and find stories about this but my my flavor of left is is extremely hard on Obama for for how he He handled immigration, you know the porter-in-chief was one thing that He is used against him a lot.  He there's no there's no backlash for any that they in fact. They say he's scandal free That's why that's everywhere. Do a Google search right now for Obama scandal free And you know you got to know that's not true And that's what I mean You can see here and tell me that like you're on the internet with some people who don't like Obama the problem is The mass media and all these institutions are controlled by the left now And I know people are gonna argue over what's the left and all that but let's say the Democrat Party Let's just say Democrat Party. That's who they're controlled by our media. We have Democrat state media Literally like everything they accuse Republicans in the right and everything, you know conservatives of they're a guilty of and that's That's why this issue for me is such an important one because it's a great example. It's a great You know, they say a teachable moment. It's a very it's a very teachable moment because What do you see now with Biden now? I've noticed it's kind of starting to fray a little bit, but you got Saki up there saying oh, well, they're holding him in the container. It's it's what we always figure It's there's a saying I always say it's different when Democrats do it and because there's always there always seems to be This rationalization and I get what you're saying you're saying that You know you guys are not are not acting that way and you would do hold these guys That's all well and good, but you know the meat the mass media Hollywood academia Big tech all these are controlled by people who don't see it your way They they are hardcore bubble Democrat left-wingers and they have no problems holding You know the right might will have standards and fall short and they'll attack them for that But the left it seems like you maybe you guys have standards But the the mainstream left or whatever they only have like Standards that they take in the moment for political expediency and then the second that it's damaging to them the rules change Anyway, sorry. I was on a soapbox there for a minute So so it sounds like we're leaving the actual issue of immigration So do you want to kind of go over where we left that and If we want to talk about something else we can yeah, yeah, sorry. Yeah, I kind of got off there I guess I Still don't know how it was so much worse under Trump I mean Trump did sign that executive order ending the flora's decision, correct ending child separation didn't that happen Okay, so, um, I'm not exactly sure what that executive order said Um, I do know that what or I am fairly sure that whatever executive order he he He signed in order because he did end child separation. It was it or it was because he was court ordered to Um, fairly sure that was the case, you know, what's funny here is I'm reading this article biden pledge to sign executive order about separated migrant children And hasn't which is I just find funny because I know that uh, trump did sign that I think that they still ran into issues though with Detaining parents and not just parents, but just adults who claim to be parents, but may not be I I guess my point is that When it comes to like this illegal immigration all this stuff It's so the the waters are so muddy And I think to be like oh trump was so much worse. He was so horrible. I just feel like that's it's propaganda I I don't buy it. I and I understand that there were some uh kids I want to say 1200 around that were they were actually lost their parents But I'm pretty sure They found all of them at this point. I'm pretty sure all right a long time ago. They they had relocated all of them um, maybe uh, so Yeah, so trump trump. Uh, so let's let's just go over. I'm gonna go over my perspective of this. All right. Go for it Trump comes into office He decides not to use his executive executive discretion. Uh, when it comes to immigration, um, and wants to Well, he Yeah, I will just say he wasn't put into office to do that. He was put in the office to stop it. I'm just saying that's what he was Okay, I mean, whether that's the case or not. Um, I still don't like it You know, oh, I mean we're not gonna agree on that and I don't like it either I wish it didn't happen, but I wish that they wouldn't come here illegally. So Okay, so let's talk about that. Can you want to talk about that? Yeah, yeah, of course, but let's let's let's go continue with uh, let's let's kind of wrap this one up with a neat bow Um, we're just I'm just gonna give like I'm not you can push back if you want But I'm gonna give my my take and if you don't push back I'm just gonna give my take you can give your take and then we just leave it at that Go for it. Um, so yeah, so Trump comes in he decides not to use his executive discretion to uh, when it comes to Uh, uh, prosecuting people who cross the border illegally, um He gets rid of catching release, which is way bigger than what people make it out to be. Um, and what ends up happening as a result is, um He has to separate the children from his the parents Because of the full as decision that says that children cannot be detained for 72, uh, longer than 72 hours Uh, but he knows that he's going to be detaining the parents for longer than 72 hours So you have to separate them Um The egregious part in that whole situation Is not the full as decision in my opinion. Um, it is the decision to detain the parents um and uh And uh, despite having well, maybe parents, but yeah your yeah, if there's suspicion of Like coyotes or whatever then i'm okay with that because you have to figure that shit out. Well, that's always i mean That's always a suspicion, right? Hey Not i mean it can be but not to the extent that like you have to take weeks to be able to figure this shit out um anyways um Right and in that time you said how long two weeks Uh well, i just said weeks right it's gonna be weeks. So do you keep those kids with those people while you're doing that? If Yeah, but what i'm saying So you you know that trump detain most of the a lot of the people they were detained for over 72 hours They were detained over 72 hours because trump wanted to detain them until their court hearing, right? Or to figure out a child trafficking was definitely part of it. I mean they they explain it That was a part of every administration Um, which is why it doesn't really get get attention but but the whole um keeping the parents until The court date was a big part of why he had to keep the parents and uh in prison until uh for longer than 72 hours thus Um Well, i mean you said yourself you admitted Yeah, but you admitted that it probably takes weeks to figure that out and so like no, I said it um It shouldn't like it shouldn't take weeks Uh, really to figure out who these kids parents are these like random kids who come by the whole the thousands across the border Yeah, I mean If it does then that's an issue that you need to address as um as you know commander in chief Which I think is well, I'm not gonna get get on that. Um, we can get on that later Well, um, so so, um To continue my narrative Trump responds to a court order to stop separating children by getting rid of the florist decision Uh, which is what you said. I'm not exactly sure that was yeah, I'm not a hundred percent sure about that myself But yeah, um, but I mean it sounds like it seemed logically follows That would be what he would have to do in order to detain the children For um 72 hours or longer than 72 hours and keep the children with with their parents because I do know that after that that that change he didn't like Bring back catching release. He didn't um get rid of zero tolerance He did something that allowed him to detain the children with the families. He kept yeah, I'm reading it right now Yeah, it essentially just kept it went back to the way it was Before the florist decision, which I you know, I pointed this out during the hippie-dippy thing that The the scandal then was that the kids were with the parents So the scandal is the scandal for me is that these people are being detained until um Until their court date in the first place, which which was um, which is catch and release Uh, I don't necessarily mind that he's he's prosecuting people Um, because like everyone's got to have a court date if they're coming across the border anyways So but keeping them in detained until their court date is kind of what is a big reason why Uh, what led to all of this Right that that's what i'm saying though Yeah, but we have immigration laws that he has to enforce. I mean the government has very few Uh, directives and what they're supposed to do the government one of the main things is to protect the borders Yeah, so let's just say um, I agree with you That that we uh, that the commander in chief should be enforcing every single immigration law on the book um And let's let's take that out to a other laws on the book if I get caught in a state That um, doesn't have uh, that doesn't have legalized marijuana with a bag of marijuana And I get a court date to to go to court for this crime. Do you think that my children should be taken away from me? Um Because um after that I mean that that would all come down and I'm sure this this question does come up actually I don't know about marijuana, but other drugs. I mean definitely I doubt that that really comes up much with marijuana unless uh, They were like a seller or something and they're the parents the parents are getting hit with serious You know, they would separate and put them with family or something. I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot different So if I was in a situation like like many of these immigrants are in to where the only people that I have um are the um people that I came in with or um That uh, and I was being put in jail for marijuana charges Instead of let out to be with my kids until the court date. Um, if I was put in jail for these marijuana charges Uh, what would happen to my children? Well, your children would be put they would be put with family or foster care But I still don't think that I mean that's such a rare I I would think that that's a very rare thing to occur and it's completely different like Well, well Well, look the in the end it's so I I don't know I don't like this comparison because for one the immigration thing is about Keeping our borders secured and the other one is just like Random crime and and and the decision that you're talking about would come down in a court to You know prior record are these children being taken care of and and those kinds of things and Ultimately the the conclusion to that it's not it doesn't have the same widespread Consequences that this does and again like Why are these people coming by the tens of thousands They weren't during the Trump administration. Why are they coming again? Why is this always happening? Why are we getting hit with these waves of people? That's what I want to talk about And and then we're going to bring in some callers. Uh, I just I I got an answer during the hippie-dippy thing I'm wondering what you have to say Okay, um, so Hold on I'm going to finish my my statement. Yeah, go for it. We're taking the marijuana comparison what I would want to see in the marijuana situation is for the family to stay together and tell the court date and For a judge to use discretion of whether or not these people are going to go to jail Does separating the family? For over a marijuana charge Is the same as I would want to see in a illegal immigration Um In a legal immigration clause in case I would want to see these people not being treated like murderers Or or rapists or whatever. Uh, I don't think they are but uh, well, okay, whatever would actually qualify Um for their family to be separated and I would want to see policies They are going to keep these people in um together and um Out of jail as much as possible until their court date where they are Where it's being decided are they going to be deported or are they going to stay in america? That that is what I would want to see in an immigration policy, right? I don't necessarily disagree with that but um, I would say the best The the best plan for keeping the family together would be not to invade a country that you're not a citizen of But real quick real quick. Uh, yeah, we can we can go we can get into that other question now. Um, all right Yeah, well, I do want to bring in some uh, we have some people waiting. I wouldn't mind bringing in a caller Oh, yeah, okay. I'm going to bring in a I think smoke steve here first. He's a good guy from um trigger warning tv If you're not familiar with that, uh, it's uh Look it up. It's a youtube channel. It's started by the founders of lively.com all good guys. Uh Great channel great channel and they're definitely not left or right as far as america is concerned It's a uk-based uh channel, but uh, I'm gonna go ahead and bring smoke in here Smoke, do you hear me buddy? You there? Smoke steve smoke steve. He probably he's probably afk. Uh, I'm gonna give him a second here. I'm gonna bring bell in Hey, what's up y'all? Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you man. What's up? Oh, yeah, I just had to mute the youtube because the way but Extra bringing me on all as well Yeah, I I would just uh telling everybody about uh your channel and what you guys do and uh Just thought I'd bring you uh, did you have uh anything to add to the discussion or anything to ask uh me or liberal clock I mean, how about the fact that the the economy is in the shitter right now and uh Pulling together a bunch of money just to get americans going again. Like is this the time to be covering? The tab for all these scrubs who have nothing and now I'm a human being and and I feel for them, but I mean, where when do you take care of just your own and and stop with uh You know the outside generosity at some point, right? I mean does that make sense? I'm guessing that one was directed at me, right? You want me to answer that one if you want Oh, yeah. No, I'm happy to um so The economy is in the shitter Uh, but we still have enough resources to take care of I'm not going to say the whole world Uh, because that that's what people go to when uh when I when I make this point But we still have enough resources to take care of the people. They are at the border and also the the the immigrants that come into this country Um illegal or not They're not a huge drain on the economy like people like to make them out to be now I I would be interested to see sources that suggest otherwise, but um, but what do you mean by that like you add Uh several million people to a system. I mean That's going to be a drain. I mean you add 10 000 people to this system. That's some sort of a drain So when you say that's no no drain, I don't how are you coming to that conclusion? Generally speaking immigrants aren't just coming here.  Absolutely. I mean the democrats are signing all these bills giving them free health care and all this stuff What do you mean? Generally speaking immigrants and and this is backed up by all the um studies that I've ever seen Um, now now, of course, I I admit that I am in a more left-leaning bubble So maybe you can come up with something that um says something different and I will be happy to later on sent PMU some some stuff that I've read um but Uh, I don't I don't care like I I can't think of a study offhand But just my critically thinking logical brain thinks if you take several million people from poor poor people from poor countries And you bring them into united states. They don't suddenly become self-sufficient middle class people. Do they? What are a lot of these people? Coming here for the the non asylum seekers. What are they usually coming? Well And just so we are clear on this the asylum seekers the vast majority of them are not asylum They're they're coming because it's like obama said it himself. Uh, and like Right, they claim it. Hold on a second. My stream just uh pooped the bed. So let me let me try to fix that real quick And steve if you have anything to interject here, bro, go for it. I do I mean When you are approved for asylum Doesn't that mean that you're automatically approved for um, yes welfare benefits immediately? Yes. Yes, it does come on Why do you think they're all going for asylum? right I mean I'm not coming down on you and or anything the roll clock at all, buddy. I'm not I'm just saying like The brain the human brain struggles to think of a way that these people but we have it could be way bigger than that Okay, here's the thing here one last thing I want to throw in here Do you think maybe and and I don't think this is the case not all not all I don't think all immigrants are automatically going to like fall into the democrat plantation as we would say But do you think which party do you think has most of benefit from millions and millions of people? streaming into the country needing american welfare Okay, and also use video if you guys have it I want to address. Oh wait If I use my video will it show on your stream because I had somebody asking about that Yeah, well If you're able to if you're already streaming out to your stream and you're using your camera, you won't be able to Gotcha. Um, okay. So to to address the earlier issue, uh, Thing that y'all were talking about when it comes to the economic train. Um I asked you a question. What do you think these people are coming here for? They're coming here to work, right? Uh, yeah, I think a lot of them are. Yeah, I do They're coming here for a better life Yeah And I don't begrudge them for that by the way. They're human beings. They want a better life like all of us for sure so Having people come here having people that have the drive to cross continents To come here in order to work Is is adding a very determined um labor force to our country These people are going to come here and work. They're going to pay taxes Um, even the illegal emmer taxes in some form or another they've got to buy things They've got to pay taxes to at least the localities.  There are people who come here and and they get benefits Um, but those people generally are also trying to find jobs trying to learn the language in order to um In order to work and and things like that. So so is it Well, can I ask you a quick question about the juxtaposition of the two? Would you say there is more of the ones who are come here and work or more of the ones that come here and get benefits On it. Okay. So, how would you categorize somebody who's both getting benefits and works? Would you categorize them as a as a um worker or a benefits? Or benefits if you're working on getting benefits, you're still you're still getting benefits Well, I I don't really have a way of answering that question intuitively I would think that most of them are working um, even um, many of the ones that are getting benefits But um, but I just I haven't seen any studies or whatever that that looks at that But I have seen studies that that look at the impact the immigration and illegal immigration has um On the economy, but can I just say and I think I think partially You're trying to push back and I think this happens a lot in this debate. You're trying to push back against any kind of perceived like racism against immigrants or some kind of perceived like bigotry of people Assuming that you know immigrants don't work and there's coming in to get on the dole And I think there's I think that maybe you generally you broadly generalize Like you might call it positive broadly generalizing But I think that uh, a lot of Especially the illegal immigrants are on a lot more programs than you know Maybe not even of their Choice necessarily because they get they come in here and they get pushed through the system And you better believe that through the entire system. They're being signed up for benefits Maybe if they don't even know it Right. Okay. So even if that is true. I mean we have americans that are working Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, we have americans that are working and and on benefits and such and and they also are a positive on the economy The the only I think there are positives by the way I just yeah, so so so the only thing that you would actually see as a drain um from a pure numbers perspective as if people are coming over here and they're doing what the um, what the the races As you uh perspective where they're just coming here just for the benefits They want to sell an ass and collect benefits. Um, that that would be like a net drain But even in certain cases Like like if a mother is collecting benefits and she doesn't really have a job She's still taking care of a family and that's still a benefit To to society. So so there can still be benefits to the economy or society Um for somebody who does who isn't even working Okay, um, I I do want to bring in a smoke. Uh, if you have one, uh, something you want to bring in here I'm gonna bring in another guy here Paleli, Paleli. Is that Paleli? I Pali. I Pali Pali Sorry I'm terrible. Let's all buddy. Welcome Okay, cool. Hold on. Let me mute the stream. That's kind of weird All right, okay So, um, I was just going to jump in really quick with the whole immigration discussion Yes, I think even if you're working and you are getting benefits you could probably probably are net positive to the system I don't think the discussion should go that way. I think the discussion should go towards number one uh There's like 2.7 billion people that would come to america if they wanted to like if we open the borders 2.7 million people would come here and we're seeing that right now so With our policies and this is why I kind of like trump and even if you don't like him because he's brash or whatever Uh, the policy of like hey, we're gonna enforce this This is gonna start start Weeding not weeding stemming the flow and it did we can see that objectively through what happened Through 2017 through 2020. It was a really high in 2016 2017 and it started bleeding off So people go. Oh, that's racist because of all x extra etc What I really want to get on is the the amount of people that have to Assimilate when you bring in millions and millions They they form little cohesion cohesive groups. So if you look at la for example, there is a large section of that place that has Latinos in one place uh, chinese and one place blacks in another place And you get more and more that and people like to go. Oh, that's multicultural. Hey, that's great two-way points because once you start Bleeding your own identity to accommodate everybody you run into the problem of not being able to define who you are and I think that's what we're running into Generally between the left and the right so I I'm going to start with that um The comment about two billion people wanting to come into america Um, I don't think that two billion people have the ability to come to america I think that america has um plenty capability to economically Handle the people that are coming in right now if we ever get to a point to where um Where there was like substantial evidence that we were going to if we start like if we Let these people in we're going to start it's going to start negatively drastically negatively affecting many many many americans Then we can have the discussion about um, oh, well, maybe we should stop letting people in Um, I don't I don't think we're at that point. Like I said, I'm open to people sending me Sending me studies that that would disprove me. I'm open to reading those studies. Um, or or anything of the sort um But until then that that's the opinion that I'm going off of. Um, that's the intuition I'm going off of as for your, um, culture um issue um Yeah, we have situations to where we have people that are like um gathering and groups of uh people that are like them. Um But that becomes less true, uh, if you if you follow any of these groups, uh From a a individual basis that becomes less true the more, uh, generation generations Past uh, generally speaking like a first generation immigrant. They'll they'll they'll be very culturally them um, and and as they have kids and their kids have kids Which is like what a span of 40 years 50 years. Um It they those those particular people become much more americanized and yes, america does as a whole Take in aspects of um, their culture Into their own culture and I don't see that as a bad thing unless we're taking in only negative aspects But I think generally speaking when we take in aspects of another culture and when other cultures take in aspects of our culture Uh, we try to make it into try to do the only the positive ones So like, um, an example that I gave was that if it wasn't for us assimilating um, hispanic culture I probably would have never learned how to dance because the only music that I was able to learn how to dance to is salsa music Um, that's that's just an anecdote Yeah, um, but yeah Yeah, I mean, I would just say one thing I would quickly add to that Um, is that maybe that's the way it went in the past I I worry about the millions upon millions that are coming in and then on top of that We have the left literally trying to wipe out american history And so I'm like less and less sure that america is going to exist a hundred years from now At least the way that we know it they don't want to wipe out the history. They want to make sure that certain history is remember Magnified like our bad history and they want to ignore the good history. Okay, so something else I would um, I want to I kind of want to just kind of throw out. Um, if So so we know that there are problematic Aspects of certain cultures overseas. Um, there is a lot of uh, muslim groups that just problematic parts of us Yeah, so um, do not like, um Some of them are stoning homosexuals over there. Um, and and um, they're They they are They are repressing women If we had a um migrants from the muslim countries come over here Do you think it's more likely that america is going to pick up those? Um negative aspects of those culture or do you think it's more likely that as those people have children and those children end up in our culture that they stay muslim, but they Shed the problematic aspects of their um their culture Well, here's here's how I would tackle that issue. Let's look at the left now Right now the left is going. Oh 400 years ago.   Therefore you are responsible So you're saying that yes, gen generationally cultures mingle But when you have large groups of sections and I could show you tons of studies from Europe just in the past 10 years of their of their immigration from northern africa and stuff like that They have massive problems with people just Living in their own groups. They don't even bother to learn the language They don't bother to learn any customs because they don't have to when you bring in a ton of people They can coalesce and don't have to worry about assimilating and that's what I see problem the problem happening Okay, I would be interested to look at those studies. Oh Oh Yeah, none of us have studies right now. I mean you have any studies. I Honestly, I told you like I haven't like lined up any studies Uh, so basically we should I mean if you want to start throwing out studies Go ahead if you want to link them in discord or something like that, but otherwise This is a thing that I was looking to like look into over the you know course of a week or so Yeah, I'm not I'm not going to open up a study right now and go over it Um, that that's not the point of this conversation. I don't think not really Yeah um So as far as immigration goes, um I think I think pretty much I As far as we go, I don't think anybody here and I don't think the right in general You're gonna there's definitely racist right-wingers who are like white nationalists but most of us literally just want to preserve like america like the idea of Individuality the idea of everybody gets an opportunity not not necessarily an outcome But everybody gets an opportunity and we want to keep we want to see that keep going because those things These are things that foster like innovation and um and and You know, it's not mediocrity like a lot of these countries that these people are coming from We just don't want to see our country turn into those countries that they left And I don't think that it's not a racial thing or anything like that. It's just if these people Come from these countries and they come to america and then they vote democrat and democrat is definitely leaning socialist and increasingly communist that looks like then Then we're basically allowing in an army that's going to change this country completely change it to something It was never meant to be that's what we're worried about and it's got nothing to do with race So you realize culturally Hispanics and and the black community Line up with conservatism way more than they do liberalism No, i'm sorry And that that may have been before but conservatism in general and i'm not a conservative per se, but Conservatism has been turned into a pejorative. It's a pejorative that is looked on negatively And in fact, I mean that's and I talked about this a lot of my channel That's what's happening increasingly to anybody who stands in opposition to the left You know what their agenda and it's turned into like you're here in white supremacist. It used to be heard racist a lot now It's like domestic white supremacist terrorists. You know, they're just upping the ante constantly To like demonize their opposition and and so when you tell me that it's like I don't have a lot of faith That it's gonna go that way. I mean it seems like we're And i'll give you an anecdotal example here. I know um a few russian people I worked for this russian guy That has an electronics recycling company and I used to back in the day. I used to sell ebay items for him But he lived through the soviet union came here Has made He's done amazing things here in america But he came here A democrat he initially was a democrat, but then over time realized These people are bringing what I ran away from and so now he's like a staunch trumpian republican because He sees that and the democrats and you know what else the uh, you know, like the cubans And people like that like in florida who are very anti-democrat Look what happened to them. Look what the media was saying about them The media was saying that oh these are a bunch of rubes getting taken by right wing conspiracy theories They think the democrats are socialist Uh in communists and that's you know, they're just being taken in by right wing conspiracy theories It's not a conspiracy theory man. I'm telling you it's real People genuinely are concerned about that So so nothing you just said counters what I said that culturally these people tend to be conservative They they they tend to be christian. Uh, actually not enough of them. Did trump win? They uh, well the black community um Doesn't generally vote for uh republicans Right because of the it's a monolithic vote mostly let them to believe that they're the ones looking out for them Yeah, so we we can argue over whether or not They're voting in their best interest when they vote for democrats. I would say they are you of course would say they weren't um, but they they they vote democrats because um of civil rights and democrats being the ones that um that that That they see as um being the ones that look out for them Right, but why do they see it that way and it wasn't democrats It wasn't democrats pushing civil rights The majority of slave owners were democrats out of the entire democrats opposed civil rights were And now what guys hold on hold on more democrats voted against the civil rights I know we're now we're gonna get to a whole debate over, you know, if the talking about the southern strategy and the Right pushing of the party's right. We're gonna get debate about if that was a thing. You're right, which I'm happy to talk about Nah, it's too much of a divergent. Let's let's try to stay on okay Because that's just like another argument that's never going to be settled because It doesn't matter because it's so ingrained in the people's heads that it was a southern strategy Even though there's like a laundry list of facts that did not no, I don't want to get into that let's I do want to get on another topic though.  Essentially I Define open borders. Well, I mean, you're pretty laissez-faire with the borders. I mean I want a path.  Well, I I want them to be processed Um, and I want I want people Who and I want background checks But uh, I don't want to deny people based off of a um, I mean we have an immigration system So you but that's what I'm saying like you don't you don't agree with that and you think that people should just flood here by the millions I I don't think that opening the borders is going to flood people in here by the millions They're flooding in without Right now The reason why they are flooding in smoke is next smoke is next So the reason why they're flooding in the way they are is because um Pretty much made them stay in mexico and and piled up the problem across the border So so when a new administration Comes in and actually and tries to tries to spearhead a processing method for these people They come in on a much larger rate because they have been Been um, it's like kinking a hose and having like water piled up at at that part of the hose And yeah, so they are coming in a lot right now. Why are they coming here? I wanted to get off this topic, but we never answered that. I'm not let me just let me just inject this Let me just inject this and during the debate they claim that it was because of us intervention in south american countries That's a part of it. There's there's there's a multi. It's a multifaceted issue So it's impossible Of course it is simple reason trump was keeping people From crossing the border illegally. He was keeping them from trying to come over here without trying to get documentation for themselves Because if you come over legally and I have quite a few friends that have come over the border legally Who said that they prefer?  Hold on. Hold on. That is just factually incorrect Right. I don't care how long here's the thing. I don't care how long it takes. That's how long it takes That's our laws. That's the way it goes. You don't you don't get to just you have to hold on No, no, no, hold on you wait. You don't get to just make up your own rules because you don't like the way it is No, you try to change the rules because you don't like the way it is. That's what we're trying to do No, but no, but the the immigrant what I keep hearing is that people are doing it the way they're doing it because the immigration process takes too long And you said how long does it take my point is I don't give a damn how long it takes That's what it takes. Okay, so you have a person You have a person You have a person in another country Oh, that is is in poverty Uh, okay, that's not even like american poverty. That's they're in poverty. Okay Or maybe they're People in Mexico aren't under poverty because of what their own government does to right like do you think america is like a dumping ground for other countries? Poor like can y'all can y'all let me can y'all let me finish. Yeah, go ahead. Good. I'm sorry So they're in poverty or maybe their life is in danger or or whatever whatever the reason they're not going to walk all the way over here um For for because they stubbed their toe or whatever Um, they they have a reason to be here so they get here and and they find out that they've got to wait in this situation for seven years In order to uh become a citizen. Do you think that it's unreasonable for somebody who has been told that? That uh to try and find another means to come in. Yes, absolutely.  Like how is it justified that you can let somebody come across? Because we're like that like that doesn't make any sense like that's you know, I contradictory I understand what you're saying. Um, I do not put value in the law just because it's a law I put value in a law Based off of the effect of that law. Let me ask you this real quick. So that's perfect way to end that What you just said your point there Is the laws that keep people from breaking into your home and taking what you have are those good laws? Because some people don't have things and they really want them So why not just take yours? I think that somebody breaking in and into my home and stealing my tv is a lot different than somebody coming into a country that has a A immigration system that that is disallowing them from um from the only difference is rationalization It's a rationalization allow you if you go for citizenship and Depending how long it takes it does shouldn't matter how long it takes honest to god If you are dedicated to coming to this country, you will take the time to wait patiently and get here What if it took 100 years you say it doesn't matter how long it takes? How much respect? Logical You're also completely knowing the fact That if they get to come in by just walking across the border and getting all the benefits of a legal resident or citizen That is a middle finger to everybody who goes through all the time And all the effort and all the expense people in my family to come here the legal way And the reality is if you green light the people who do not follow the rules millions and millions Real quick real quick liberal. I understand my position. Go ahead.  He is one No, I'm fine with this. I just want to be I just want I just want everybody I want him to get his chance to say his piece and everybody take a turn. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, I'm fine with being dog Pound I I do not like I do want a chance to actually answer though. Um, so My my idea isn't to to allow people to come in legal illegally My idea is to change the law to where it makes it easier for people to come in legally to where we don't expect people to stay in The the detrimental situations that they are in south of the border when they have taken the made the effort to travel north usually on foot um We don't expect them to stay in that situation for seven more years because of arbitrary reason So it's not arbitrary It's the law and you're saying that you want to make exceptions to the law that other people are expected to adhere to No, so you either Okay. All right. So you want to lower the bar or am I understanding you correctly? You want to lower the bar and you don't expect that if you lower the bar Millions upon I have two questions First off you don't expect millions upon millions of the seven and a half billion people to come slinking over And second question is how does your system? Of allowing those people to come over the lower bar help any of the people still in those countries You're not fixing the problem. You're moving it to the united states of america The people in central and south america are still just as poor if you want to help them Help them there and you also seem not to get the fact that a lot of people who are coming illegally aren't doing it because They have to be here in the poor in the hungry human traffickers drunk traffickers people who simply do not want to follow the rules because they have no legal basis to enter This country and they know it Okay, so I don't I don't support human traffickers and drug traffickers. So for so for the the purpose of this conversation Uh, the rest of the time that we are talking about this. We can just ignore that because I do not support them Um, what else did you say?  That's not a valid argument It's not fair because what you're proposing opens the door to them too Hold on. So if if we I am a hundred percent for a system to where if a human trafficker or drug trafficker Which by the way, if we um, if we anyway for somebody who is trafficking Um comes into this country. I am completely for a system of us not letting that person in What about the ones that are already here? That is another question. We're about the ones that are already come over here No, we're not now with biden under this Under this administration. Do you honestly think that people are being given Amnesty and they're being let go easily. Do you honestly think that biden is administration is is seeing a person from another country Who is trafficking humans and just letting them stay here? Yes, he let fstein do it for years. Oh my gosh All right, I'm gonna have to see a Are against the wall because Even if it's not illegal, I I haven't even um All of your other well that but that's a fair question because you're saying it doesn't matter And you're not and we can ignore it. We can't ignore it. There's no system to keep them out of the moment So they wait there there is it's it's called we have a vetting process I'm not for getting rid of the vetting process which the people who enter legally attempt to circumvent You're not being logical He's trying to say that basically I want a system that brings them in legally and yes I know there's issues with like people that have already been waiting and all that kind of stuff Like this is the general liberal point of view with the the moderate liberal is basically they want um They want to take care of people that have had hardships That has obviously we we know that that has morphed from The asylum based claims, which is like oh people are in dire straits and I don't think that That they even realize that Their own empathy is being used against them for example The whole immigration thing with how trump was treating kids in cages Like we've already gone over the whole thing with like obama had the same pictures and the pictures that was circulating was actually from the obama Obama administration and it's like it's like you guys That's not the issue the issue is We have X amount of people we can let in and I said and I I need to get this figure But it's like 2.7 billion people were asked in a global thing and said yeah I would like to go to America if I could now once you have somebody like the obama administration takeover They're like hey, you know what we're gonna Reimplement the whole we'll pick you up. We'll check you in and go stay in this place and when your thing is when your court of data is here and Two or three years show up now We already know that like what 90 90 plus percent of it. They don't show up and we don't have That's that that's factually incorrect No, it's a large percentage. Okay. How about it's a large percentage 80 percent eight over 80 percent of the people You talk about catch and release right where where they give a court date and they get let let into the country No, no, he's talking about people who show up for their their um Yeah, yeah, they give a court date they're released back into the country And you see he's talking about the people that show back up to court, right? I think the asylum I think the 85 figure is asylum cases um, it's 86 for asylum cases 83 percent or something like that for For the other cases and um The you got the right idea Um, I just I literally just looked these numbers up and the reason why so so even the uh, Even the trump administration quoted a around a 60 percent number But they didn't take into consideration the fact that when these people are given court dates They are usually given dates. They are to be determined and then the court fails to follow up with a clear and concise Court date. So when they are Given a when they are being put in the system as people. They are going to be deported Um, they are able to appeal that and most of them do and then when they appeal that they are given a clear court date And then they end up showing up and when the when the study looked at all of that put together um, it turned out the over 80 Percent of every single type of um immigrant that tries to come into this country showed up for their court dates Can you give me a non-bias source like and I'm also curious how many I'm also curious how many of those Uh were found not to be asylum cases because I'm pretty sure it's most of them Let's hit your facts is completely true Here's here's my issue with it. Number one. I need a drink cover it back You you have a large percentage that don't show up even you say let's say 20 percent We know that that percentage grows if you do not have any kind of um Punishment I I hate to use the word punishment, but any kind of system to stop that behavior from reprimand from happening So as you increase The number of cases coming in and as you decrease the reprimands You're going to get an increase in people going. Well, the system's not really going to go after me I'm not gonna respond to that Can I respond to that real quick?   I'm not saying unfortunately the main push from the democrats, which is Yeah Yeah I'm saying the main push like the leadership says the the people that have the things that get done get things done They are the ones who sees the check shimmers I just got off of the stream watching uh freaking what's his name the comedian that's now uh Anyway, so he was complaining about the whole like hey, they voted us in and and we still don't have our checks And we we still don't have this and they're still doing this and it just cracks me up. I'm like this is This just reminds me that the whole hillard clinton having hot sauce center When you talk about increasing the number of people Thanks, after you are allowed to seek asylum. What does that do to the time? Is that going to reduce or increase the court cases and the cost to the american taxpayer? Can you at least you can see that's going to go up? I can answer that I can answer that okay if we if we have a system that um That is focusing more on processing these people and less on detaining these people Then um, we would decrease the cost because it cost a whole lot of money to detain people. Um, and also We would get through the processing Yes, let him finish. Let him finish bell Well, but he's not talking. He's not talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about I'm talking about catching release Which is the biden plan. That's why if you let more people in For catch and release the cost and the time we're going to go up go up. Is that logical do you think? No, no because because okay, so the cost is magic then. No, no listen. It's not Can I kind of speak for you really quick? So yeah, go ahead. Maybe she'll listen to you Excuse me. So look at look at the war on drugs So I think a lot of republicans are now opening up to the idea of like hey, you know what legalize the drugs and maybe this whole crappy Mexico Cartel thing will kind of go to the wayside because right now they hold all the all the cards because it's illegal and What he's saying is Yes, the cost will go up But you're But the cost hold on the cost will go up to process them But the cost will also go down from prosecuting them Yes, so I think in a in a net positive He has a point and I think us has And I'm not republican. I try to be as independent as possible, but I do lean conservative Then we look at like the war on drugs we want If we if we stop the war on drugs, I think we would stop most of the gang violence I think we would stop a whole lot of this shit that's going on and if we funnel that money into helping people Now you can argue about how effective that's going to be I think it's going to be more effective than the raids and the shit that we do but That's off second.  I mean look at california for instance They've legalized it in a majority of the areas, but it's they still have high drug traffic Drug trafficking crimes going on regardless Go to the immigration issue Because you're saying it's going to get better. Okay, so we Focus on processing which is going to be an investment. We don't Invest into attention. We let people go within the united states You are going to see a larger number of people come because it's going to be easier for them to get through the processing You're going to catch fewer people who are actually criminals You're going to have a more porous border. You're going to have a larger influx of I'm assuming you're going to You're going to accept some of these people as illegal in other words You're going to catch them as they come across And what are you going to say to it? I think this was one of the things that resonated with a lot of americans To the people who are victimized by the catch and release program Because you're you're putting people out into communities and they have done horrific things because we didn't bet them because they didn't go through The process that you say is too onerous It's too difficult. It's unfair to these people who mind you We owe nothing to they're not american citizens You have an idea. We owe something to the world. We owe them nothing. They're not our citizens. They're not our responsibility You ask me a question. Can I answer? Yeah, um Yeah, so Catch and release Does do a I believe and if if i'm wrong, um, so they do a background check to make sure these people aren't like predisposed to violent behavior To the extent that they can Um, so I don't think that Okay, and hold on To further my point Emigrants are no more likely and I think there are studies that show that they are less likely To commit crimes than native-born americans. Uh, do not do not conflate And legal immigrants those are too Oh, and what you're saying right now is correct for legal immigrants. It is not Factually correct when applied to illegal immigrants Is that something you've been doing from the very start long before I got here you have been applying statistics from legal immigrants and Using them to justify Things related to illegal immigrants and I find that to be offensive because it's misleading And it's it's not fair. It's not a valid argument If you think that the crime will go up But but here here is a a logical line of thought that I have when it comes to this if you make it to where You are letting people, um, uh giving people a path to citizenship and you have a group of immigrants They are coming in they're given a court date. Um, and they know that they have a really good chance of getting in Um, I I feel like that the most people who are here for legitimate reasons not to Commit crimes are going to do everything in their power to be able to go through that process Whereas right now we have a process that is so onerous on these people that a lot of a lot of them even even Even because even if they um, they are here for legitimate reasons They may not get through uh, be doing the process just because it's it's it's that owners so you're saying Let me let me finish Um And furthermore if we have a system like that and we have a group of people that are not going through the process Even though we have we have let um We have made this process simplified for them and have made it to where their chances of actually being able to do this Legally is way higher, but they're still not doing it I think that that is going to signal out criminals much more than the current system that we have today No, okay. So your your commitment is besides the fact that you used the word feel which I don't think your feelings are a good basis for Our system of immigration you believe That these individuals who are willing to leave their countries and are so desperate For a better life that they are willing to crawl across our border legally Are then going to somehow be detoured And and run back home Because of red tape and if that's your argument I would suggest to you they didn't actually need to be here for the reasons you think they do A lot of the people that cross this border for those situations don't even get access to citizenship So yes, they do try to come in here illegally Yes, they try to come in here illegally and you're saying that they're going to be deterred By red tape from sticking around for legal residency and i'm telling you a little bit of waiting And going through the legal process turns them off. There's two problems I have with that first They are not going to be law abiding citizens. They are going to be bad americans And secondly, they were not quite as desperate as you are portraying them to be Because if they were that desperate and if they were that afraid of going back to whatever it is they're going from Nothing in the way of paperwork or bureaucracy or waiting would deter them Yeah, let me let me let me just add to that. It's a thought I had earlier that If i'm going into a somebody else's country I myself would have the highest level of respect for that country, right? I'd go in I would respect their laws I'd be polite, you know the whole thing people that are coming in this country I get you're saying everybody's super desperate. I don't know like bell. I don't know if I buy that But they have it seems like they have very little respect for the country And think about how many of them uh illegals come into this country break the laws and then get fake ids or steal people's identities So not only do they break in america america's rules on their entry, but then they're screwing over american citizens like So I am looking at a study right now and I can link it if everyone wants to look at this. Um, yes, please PNAS.org it's um Okay, so let's look at the logical what he said and I actually agree with them and Okay, let me let me state why so it is correct because I think this is a upline spot for the right They go, okay illegals are doing illegal things and therefore when they get to the states They're going to continue being illegal or doing illegal things. That is fallacy. I think we all can recognize that, correct? Hmm I mean to to assume they are going to no no no no Hold on. It's too general. You're being generic. Hold on. I I see what he's saying Legals because they entered the wrong way. Right. There's a difference between illegal and an illegal Right, right respect for our country and our laws. They would have come the legal way Right, but he's saying that Right. All right guys So, right it is. I see what he's saying. You're making a generalization and you're telling us to sign on to it I don't sign on generalization. I'm saying it's a fallacy. It's a fallacy to think that when somebody does something illegal It's not a fallacy in some cases. You know that that's true. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on It's a fallacy to assume that they are automatically going to do that But what we're saying is that if somebody does that we're assuming that they have A propensity to for that and they likely will is what we're saying. We're not saying it's Absolutely guaranteed And I am saying that this is a blind spot for the right Because once once we kind of go down this rabbit hole, sorry guys Just like the left demonizes like white supremacists. We do the same thing towards illegals And we don't we don't like to think that we're racist and I don't think we are To a overwhelming degree, but we do have our biases. I think that's one of our bias traps Can I say something to that after you're done with the finish? Yeah, cool. Um When they're here and they've already been caught because that's usually what happens Not usually but many many times it happens to the illegals that enter. They're given a court date and they're released, right? That's that's how the first thing goes Once they're released They actually try to keep their nose very clean because they know that if they screw up they typically get sent out Now this is what the point he was trying to make and this is backed up by a couple of studies that I watched Because it made me think a little bit differently about how The more empathetic look at the situation because I I'm honestly i'm not Openly I'm not openly empathetic, but I do have a lot of empathy. I just don't Apply all people do we all do we do but it's like there's a limit and we feel like we're being taken I'm a very dry person and so a lot of people say I lack empathy because of that. Um So looking at the situation is yes He has a very valid argument of saying and it's backed up by the study which I think he's linking And that is I've already linked it. It's in the in the links chat Okay, cool. So take a look at that you guys because I think that this whole argument about criminality and And stuff is not how we need to approach immigration. It's just it's just a simple We have borders and we need to screen who's coming in that's that's that's where the argument is period So this uh this study you linked real quick real quick this study you linked can I say something about bias? The right gets accused and conservatives get accused of bias so often And I would throw that back at you and say I see a different form of bias or you know a lens It's not even a bias people choose to see things through different kinds of glasses It's pessimism and optimism I've seen liberals give people the benefit of the doubt in ways that are literally Insane There's no, you know, there's no logic to it and I have seen them deny facts because those facts Contradict their argument and you don't want to call that bias.  All right real quick real quick. I'm pretty sure I heard that guys discussion of bias and bigotry coming up And it's always there below the surface It's the idea of how you frame it makes you a good or bad person My compassion lies with my country and my fellow citizens and because of that people on the left consider me A painful bigot. My compassion is no less than yours. It's just different All right, bell and I agree and guys I see what you're saying and but I also think that nobody here has said that So I get what you're saying that that's like well, we have to go up against but nobody here has said that And let's I just want to try not to make this personal against each other We're just hanging out having a discussion here But I brought up this study and I want to I just want to Maybe frame this in a different way That's not you know, it's it's not like mind bending or anything here, but The violent crime the property crime the drug violations the traffic violations that undocumented undocumented immigrants Account for that's just extra just add that on to all the other So like I see what you're saying you're saying like it's less than the people that are legal or born here. Well as somebody else as uh Somebody I can't see his name here, but he just pointed out that you know, once people come here They want to lay low because they don't want to get kicked out but yet even despite that Undocumented immigrants are still uh, You know accountable for 96.2 per capita for violent crime 96.2 per capita That's like a ridiculous number Like property crime 38.5 per capita drug violations 136 per cap like not percent. I'm sorry. That's um, that's just numbers Right, that's the way different. Okay still still Still like and well that is per capita because it says crime rate per 100 000 persons. So it's per capita Still right. So like I don't care. I don't care that it's lesser than I care that it exists at all It should not be there. That's the point So in in the situation like she like she mentioned a lot of this And you know, I take from what Joan texted because that's a lot of information that was very interesting That I kind of hadn't looked up myself, but now knowing Thank you for that, but um In regards to the situation well, that's the study that um, that uh, Liberal clock put posted. It's in the uh, share links. I'll post it in the main chat. Go ahead and sorry Yeah, anyways like Even if even if it's like raw numbers, it's still pointing out a complete fact that this stuff happens at such a high rate regardless of whether They hadn't good intentions to try to come and skirt by Even if it was low rates It doesn't matter because it's just added to the existing Violent crime the existing property crime the existing drug violations and traffic violations. You're just adding to it Yeah Would you apply that to any other system in america? So for example, if we have a system where the tourists that come into america We're committing a x amount of crime Would you say we shouldn't we shouldn't have tourism in america because we are adding to the existing crime Well tourism is a lot more regulated and controlled than illegal immigration I mean it's not at all the same thing Okay, but even even if Even but they're still going to be a Number of crime that's going to happen due to tourists. Yeah, and if they do commit crimes, they get the proper punishment Right. I mean, yeah, that you're talking about a very like uh very encapsulated kind of thing It's very controlled Tourism.  Okay. Look, we don't have enough prisoners of our own to pay for and keep And you want to you know, you do you want to increase the prison population? Or do you not want to increase the prison population? You're trying to compare apples and oranges if tourists were a problem We would not be welcoming tourists and if there was a country particular country where a lot of problems were coming We would hand out less visas. We have mechanisms for controlling tourism We have mechanisms for keeping tourists safe and for keeping americans safe from tourists Tourists are you know By I mean by they're very what they are they're way more respectful for the america than somebody ignoring our laws You know invading our borders and then whatever else comes after that add value to our economy. They give americans jobs immigrants compete for americans Jobs that's a very different impact and I know people want to say they help legal immigrants very much can enrich our Economy, but you have to be careful about who you let in what skill sets they bring What position they come in and I come from a family Of legal immigrants and I have family members who are recent legal immigrants who went through the very Difficult process of getting here. You do understand that I have no problem with legal immigration You do understand that I am not saying that we need to just like let people in and and not take a look at them You do understand that right then how much to give me an amount Tell me how many people and how much we invest in keeping our borders secure I mean are you pro-wall or anti-wall how much do we invest and how many of the seven and a half billion people on this planet Get to live here and how much do we invest in taking care of them if they come here because they can't take care of themselves And how does your system help any of the people still left in the places that they are allegedly fleeing From because if they come as refugees or they come because they want better economic opportunities You are doing something called a brain dream. You are taking the most motivated When you let in people whether they're legal or legal immigrants The most motivated the healthiest and the most intelligent are most likely to succeed in the process Which means you just took some of the smartest healthiest most motivated people from countries that are already struggling Congratulations. You just made things where they were worse Okay, so everybody thinks all right. Let him respond. Let him respond Okay, so what you just did was a gishik out. There's no way I cannot I can actually even remember all the points that you just made And respond to them, but I will respond to the last point Do you not think that uh people who travel here usually on foot across continents aren't motivated? It's my point the people who are the healthiest You made the people who are the most motivated come here, which means Motivated people out of places In order to build themselves. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Okay. Okay. Listen. All right. I understood your point I apologize. I misunderstood your point because you either care about the people in central america Can you let me respond please listen, listen, I want to have a a cordial conversation, but you you're making it really hard because I can't respond to you um Yes, I do care about the people in south america. I am a hundred percent for sending over um Aid to south america and or whatever we need can and need to do in order to get south america back on their feet I am a hundred percent for that. I don't think that there's any any study that suggests that stopping immigration from those countries are going to do that There is actually because what I said the phenomenon of and it's not just illegal immigration the reality is You when you bring people into the united states It's like an eyedropper from an ocean You help a handful of people and they're usually the healthiest Smartest and most motivated and what does a country need to improve its situation? It needs the healthiest the smartest and the most motivated to step up and do it And when you allow them to leave and come here you take the greatest resource a country has away from it That is a major problem of immigration both in the united states and hero They don't really help people if you hurt us And you leave the other people who are left behind with less human resources Okay, if somebody is so motivated that they're going to walk or um to america If they're so motivated to leave do you think that they're going to put that motivation towards actually staying and trying to improve their country? I would if it wasn't so gosh started easy for them to get in and get free stuff. They actually might You're letting it them in by lowering the bar You're letting them in by giving them goody you're letting them in by making the process faster and easier It's pretty damn hard right now, and there's no doing it It's the hardest in in the world. I believe Of first world countries It's not as harder for us to become citizens of mexico than it is for people in mexico to get resident status in the united states I I mean that we have an extremely Extra america do you understand that in other countries? You're not even a citizen until your fourth generation try living to japan sometime See how that works out for you. You will not be recognized as japanese citizen Until you are the fourth generation of your family that can prove you've lived in japan your whole life We are the exception.  I you've been great so far and I appreciate you staying and taking all this heat There's a lot of people here So I do appreciate that a lot But I do want to ask you like So I think most people here like we brought up earlier have a lot of compassion for people We want to bring in people in this country. We I personally want People of all stripes come here. We you know unite Uh and create something amazing. I'm all for that But I think what happens is that a lot of americans start to feel like their generosity and their compassion has taken advantage of And then you have guys like you who i'm not saying there's anything wrong with you But it's just like you have compassion almost to a fault where like you're very willing to give a lot of other people's You know time money energy, whatever it may be like because for you it's just as You know it's as much as just saying oh i'm compassionate. I say bring them all in But other people are maybe trying to be more uh frugal, you know what I mean I I don't really see a a point and being frugal when it comes to um the To legalized immigration because as um even errant belly bell is a bell or belly It says it legal immigrate immigrants or a um net positive for the economy So so You're saying what you want to do is basically change the law so that Basically anybody I mean like we were talking about this earlier. You basically want open borders, right? I I mean if that's what you want to call it sure. Yeah, so I mean a lot of people have a problem with that because Every other nation on this planet has sovereignty and you're wanting America There seems to be all these weird standards that are held that america is supposed to be held to that nobody else is Like what can I say something to that real quick? Uh like their history for example Yeah our history What if you look if you go back to Hunts of american history, obviously we have our bad.   It's true. They're militaries. We we've took yeah military. We fucking. What is it? The attack on pearl harbor is what set america off on japan We didn't do anything.     Sorry, it's just hilarious. Go ahead. I don't disagree I don't disagree with this concept that america is is shouldering a lot of burden of the world I would like to see that stop I'm actually kind of curious and this is going on to another topic which joan tech has been wanting to do for a while How do y'all have y'all has any of y'all seen the leaked plans that biden has? for iran and afghanistan Uh No, I don't think I have when did that come out? I don't know. I know view of the fifth column did a good video on it today The tld all of it is that basically, um biden wants to bring iran into the world stage and let them take over afghanistan so that we can We well basically they just want to they want to they basically want to just hand over to To them like I mean in some aspects. That's good. That's the same. Which means they'll get nukes, right? Yeah Which we all do was coming anyway Wait, hold on. Why do you think they'll get nukes? Well, you say bring on the world stage I mean for for one they're all they're going to get them like it's going to be just like north korea or Iraq like it was going with you in this column. They're going to get them It's just like there's this facade put on and when you say that they're going to be brought on to the world stage Well, that's going to mean having nukes, right? So, uh, well not every country this on the world stage has nukes But also, um, if they're going to get nukes, wouldn't it be better to have them as an ally than to have them as a enemy A nation run by a month of twelfth iman mist. Yeah, I don't know They've they've never they've never been a friend of the united states Well, I don't even care about that guys There they are a nation run by people who believe in the return of the twelfth iman And there are people who want to bring that about I mean, they're like the most fanatical christians They're like fanatical christians with suicide vests Okay, so, um, you'll stay the fanatical christians who believe in things Well, no, no, no, no, no I'm saying like like you would think of a fanatical christian as being someone who's like Like really intent on jesus's return or something these people believe in the twelfth iman's return But the twelfth iman's return will bring on, you know, worldwide the end of the world and they're they want to bring that about So like why would you want to give them nukes? But yeah, go ahead Well, uh, first of all, nobody's trying to give them nukes I would imagine to any deal that we would um, a gardener with them would um, I have some kind of mechanisms that would Either slow that process down or keep it from happening all together a lot of people on the right Think that the iranian nuclear deal was just just this awful deal But like the uh, the experts that have analyzed it, um to tend to disagree So I'm going to go ahead and go The experts the experts loved u.s.com too and that was a complete failure. So I don't know furthermore, um having having a um a A combative relationship with iran while they are pursuing nukes. Um without us being able to even, um, even have any type of, uh, um Surveillance of that. Um, which was in the iran iranian nuclear deal. Um, it is Puts us in a objectively worse position. Yeah, but look what they did Like they regard like if you if you remember And I'm pretty sure it's all of the news Or was back then they were giving no fucks to whether At all Whether we were watching or not they were still trying to make munitions for nuclear weapons And you know, read that document The amount of oversight we had was practically non-existent Even the un was given very little oversight very little access If you actually take the time to read that agreement, it was not what it has been presented Did you Subpart it would be a generous way of saying it. Did you did you read the document? Because I saw that commentary on it Guys Stop talking over each other Ridiculous There was no oversight the things that they were allowed to do with nobody coming to visit And the amount of visits that that were going to be allowed and the type of uh, Visits that were going to be allowed and I remind you part of the reason I read it was I also have a friend Who actually works in nuclear regulation for the u.s. Government and she goes to places like india and pakistan and does the inspections There was not as much oversight in that as you would like to believe Let me make a quick comparison really quick. Um, so if we look at our actions to north korea From like the 1990s all the way until like let's say the end of obama administration.    Oh, pardon me All right, I will guys real quick Real quick guys religion too where they're Actually encouraged to lie if it furthers the cause of Islam and remember that is it that is an islamic state It's a muslim controlled country. Yeah under the quran You are not not allowed. You're encouraged You are encouraged to lie and you are particularly Except from any kind of sin if you are lying to a non muslim if it furthers your cause in other words The cause of Islam so the idea that they would even consider a document with a non muslim country valid Is kind of on its face sort of silly because that's not how they think and you may think well, that's not How you know, I think well, that's fine, but they very much don't think that way They think that lying in that case lying to that end is not only not only acceptable It's good. It's a good thing to do. All right guys real quick furthering the cause Yep, and uh, that's true. Um, I forget what that's called, but uh Yeah, yeah, right. Um, we're coming up on two hours of stream, which went quick I didn't even realize how much time had passed. Uh, so I we've kind of strayed away from the original topic that liberal cluck and I were discussing which was Whether or not You know what trump's policy was as far as kids in cages and what binds policy and obama that trumps was much worse I can't think we kind of came to an understanding on that but uh, I do want to kind of try to wrap this up I rate prostate kind of came in here late But let's start with him and if you guys just want to kind of give your closing thoughts on illegal immigration and Joe biden and maybe how compares to trump or if you want to plug your website or your channel and go for it And we'll start with prostate Hey, oh, sorry prostate. I just wouldn't come in and say hi to everybody and um, it's a compelling conversation Good stuff Yeah, it's cthulhu man.  I love that game Yeah, it's it's nice on pc Master master race. Are you an hp lovecraft fan? Dude, I yeah, i'm a deep deep deep reader of hp since dude. Did you know that I thought he's my favorite author like by far Yeah, I well, yeah, it's like that's a conversation to be had. I think yeah, we should do an hp lovecraft stream, but uh, yeah Oh, yeah, i'm down for that ftw nil. Thank you. Uh, just posted my link in there. Um, I do four different shows a week Um, and I may add a fifth one at some point So I have like, you know, a complete work week worth of stuff to have um, but every every night is different and um Monday we we look at communism And sundays I do an interview show with uh, just me and another person. We just hang out and Basically catch a buzz and talk Sounds fun. I think i'm coming on with you here at some point April fourth is what we I got you penciled in on so okay, cool Excellent look forward to it and I smoke steve, but he won't get back with me, so Oh, he'll he'll get on with you. I'm sure he loves this stuff. Where'd he go? He like snuck away. Go ahead bell. What's your, uh, final thoughts? Bell you there? Are you talking to me? Oh, yeah, what's your final thoughts here? I am uh, I am like the resident angry chick, I guess and I'm not a gamer. So there you go That's one thing I know absolutely like almost nothing about she loves hp lovecraft too though I'd also do that like hp lovecraft. So there's the other thing that I bring to channel I'm not a gamer. I don't like hp lovecraft and I didn't That's the that's the Go ahead, uh, itchy Thanks, erin. Okay. I'll I'll be kind of try to be not too long, but um, overall in general I I see what's going on right now. It's kind of uh Kind of a big storm that's just waiting to Waiting to ignite Or better. Yeah, it's let me put it this way. It's like the propane tank that someone thought it was a smart idea to Light them a light a match in the air. We're in it's frigging open Right now We're just barely seeing what's going on And it's only just begun like as much as as much as we all can talk and discuss about it We want something to be done about it. We can't do anything about it. I love debating with everybody because it's fun by the way um liberal I had to say I liked a lot of your arguments and I liked talking with you I like being able to have open discussions with people who Have a differing opinion than me and you know, even though we may not agree on anything I still have to give you props for holding your own with all of us on here Uh of that, I mean Well, thanks itchy We appreciate you uh participating go ahead liberal cluck and uh, I do want to also thank you very much for coming here again You uh, it was a good time. We'll do it again Yeah, no, I appreciate you having me. Um, this is kind of the whole reason I started my channel was to have conversations Um about politics. Uh, yeah, I'm liberal cluck. I stream. I do a simul stream on youtube and twitch Um, I don't really have any set schedule. I um pretty much do this Uh, I started out with reddit people, uh, where I found conservatives on reddit come into my community and talk to me They're great people. Um, they're the most active in my discord. So if you're interested in joining my discord, uh Just hit me up and I'll I'll show you that. Um And yeah, if any of you, uh Streamers or anybody wants to have a conversation with me Just hit me up. Uh, we'll set a time and date and uh, we'll make it happen Sounds good. Thanks, man. I don't do abortion though. So, um, I don't discuss abortion for reasons. Yeah, it's a very, very tough Tough topic to go. It's not one. I uh, yeah, it's not one. I weighed in too much either, man. Yeah, neither Uh, pilali, uh, you uh, participate a lot too man. I appreciate it Yeah, thanks for letting me on. Um, I just want to bring one point back that about the immigration thing I think if if people on the right and people in the center bring the argument away from the additional crime and and the That aspect of it and more focus on what bell got into later which is Like things like foreign aid, it sounds like it's a good thing But it actually hurts the countries that you give aid to because if you look at how long we've given foreign aid to Places in Africa They end up being more dependent on handouts kind of like Anyway, but the more dependency on handouts is actually a negative thing in the long run for a lot of Cultures and stuff like that. So I think we should focus our arguments towards that instead of the The criminality stats and I think we'll do better in that regard Thanks, man. Uh, that's actually that that makes me think of another topic I'd really like to get into but I'm like getting really tired. We'll have to do it Maybe Thursday night because we do some I think I would do this on Thursday night too, but uh Criminal stats data and the media's cherry picking of stories to Continue a narrative. We'll get into that another night though But uh, Pete you just got in here kind of came in late. But uh, did you want to say something? all right, I think Pete is uh, his mic is muted. So anyway, uh, if you guys want to continue the conversation I'll still be hanging out here for a while If you guys in chat right now on youtube want to join us or anybody from a liberal clucks channel want to come in here We can continue the conversation. It usually goes for a little while But other than that, I appreciate everybody coming and uh hanging out I think this is one of the better discord chat streams. We've done I could be wrong about that But it seems like this one went way smoother than another one. So hopefully we can continue with that Pattern going forward and like I said, I might do this Right And I want to bring him back by the way, but uh, we're going to try and maybe do this again Thursday night So uh, check us out keep checking back every day because I upload content daily and uh, thanks again guys I'll see you all next time Bye-bye