Right, well welcome back everybody to this, this is now the third webinar for the IIDQ workshop on Indigenous People's Food Systems, Biocultural Heritage and the Sustainable Development Goals. So, very quickly I'm going to go over the objectives of the workshop because we do have some new people who have joined us today who weren't able to join before. So, first of all to promote an inclusive intercultural dialogue, secondly to understand the role of Indigenous People's Food Systems in achieving the SDGs, and also to develop new ideas for empowering interdisciplinary research on Indigenous food systems, and also to build new networks and partnerships for research. So this third webinar on co-creating research agendas will explore Indigenous People's Priorities for Research and also what are the interdisciplinary gaps and issues that really need addressing. First of all I'm going to start with a summary of the discussion that we had to inform today's webinar. So we've had two webinars already. The first one on Friday we heard how Indigenous People's Food Systems are critical for feeding humanity because of their environmental sustainability, their rich biodiversity, their nutritional value and resilience, and because of their values that promote solidarity. But they are undervalued and misunderstood and face threats from policies that undermine Indigenous People's Rights and that promote agribusiness interests and modern hybrids. So as somebody said we should be prepared to challenge what scientists say. We also learned on Friday about the Potato Park, a biocultural heritage territory, and how ancestral values of solidarity, reciprocity and balance between humans and nature and the sacred world are really vital for the local food security and sustaining the rich biodiversity in the Potato Park in Peru. And we learned about how repatriation of native crops has revived related traditional knowledge and culture and led to equitable research between Indigenous People's and scientists lending Indigenous knowledge and science. And that was an issue that was also emphasised at the FAO high level seminar in 2008. So yesterday we learned about three Indigenous food systems and we heard how they maintain rich crop diversity and wild relatives and how Indigenous food is a way of life. It's seed is life. It's not just a commodity and it's often ritualistic with spiritual beliefs which are really important for the continuity of these food systems. But we heard that these Indigenous food systems are facing many challenges and some crops are being lost, cultures becoming weaker, youth are becoming less interested in learning about them. So the first case was the Nashi in Northwest China, sorry, Northwest Yunnan, which is actually in Southwest China. And we heard from the Nashi Dongba, the spiritual leader, that their mountain Indigenous food system is becoming more and more uniform and the diversity of crops and ways of preparing them is disappearing. And this is affecting and threatening the whole food system. So essentially the problem is that as food is increasingly produced for markets, the food system is becoming more and more uniform. So another threat is that the influx of modern foods into the local food system. So a key question is how to accept outside food without destroying the Indigenous food system. And we heard from the Farmers Seed Network in China that their approach is to let the voice of Indigenous farmers come out directly and to support participatory action research to address these challenges. So then we heard about the Lepcha and Limbu food systems in Northeast India and how they are threatened by conservation policy for the forests that places a lot of restrictions on forest use. So this is lecture ancestral land, but the forest conservation laws are affecting their rituals and their traditional food system. And so people are growing less traditional crops and increasingly growing cash crops. And they have lost dry land paddy wild millet, foxtail millet, and they're facing also threats from aggressive food marketing and inappropriate government schemes. So they identified some opportunities to address these challenges, including the fact that there's growing market demand for traditional crops. And that they have sustained the spiritual beliefs and the seed exchange systems to date. But really critical now is for the government policy to integrate Indigenous culture. And that is key to prevent the continued erosion of this culture and the food systems. And finally, we learned about the Michigenda. They are in coastal Kenya and they have a sacred kaya forest culture. We learned about the rabai community food system where they have wild cow peas and many Indigenous vegetables and wild fruits, which supplement the farming and are really important for nutrition and for resilience to climate change through domestication. The kaya governance system and spiritual beliefs and taboos conserve the forest and traditionally they conserve the agro by diversity on the farmland, but they're becoming weaker. And, you know, there's challenges of modernization being close to Mombasa and also government policy has heavily promoted modern hybrids. And so they have lost traditional sorghum, Indigenous sorghum, millets, yams, and, you know, this loss of agro by diversity is threat threatens their nutrition. So some opportunities to address these challenges were identified marketing of Indigenous foods like cow peas. That's key for sustaining cultivation. There's a need to strengthen the traditional governance structure, the kaya elders, and there's a need to explore how modernity is affecting Indigenous culture and Indigenous knowledge transmission. And to better understand the links between the loss of culture and the loss of Indigenous crops, the role of women and girls in Indigenous food systems, household consumption of Indigenous foods, traditional ways of preserving Indigenous foods, and also how to propagate these foods, propagate. So that I hope is a useful summary, especially for those who weren't there. So today's webinar we're going to focus on what are the priorities of Indigenous peoples for research on Indigenous food systems. So we've heard, you know, there are many threats, what issues should be prioritized for research. We want to hear the perspectives of Indigenous peoples, both in terms of the issues but also in terms of the research approaches. So for example, should we be going beyond participatory approaches to use Indigenous conceptual frameworks and Indigenous research methods, and what should be the role of academic researchers. A second focus for today's webinar is to explore ideas for interdisciplinary research, so research that draws on more than one discipline. Indigenous food systems across several disciplines, botany, environment, agriculture, nutrition, socio-ecological systems, humanities, governance, markets. So we need to draw on these different disciplines to fully understand them and to address the challenges they face. So the first thing we're going to do today is we have a panel with mainly Indigenous experts, and they're going to talk about different food systems. We've heard a lot about crops and now we're going to hear more about pastoralism, about hunter gathering and about fishing. So I'm very pleased to welcome the panel. We have Hindu Ibrahim, who is from a pastoralist community in Chad. And we have Frank Roy from India, who's also Indigenous. Edmund Dunias from the Institute of Research for Development in France. I'm Yacheslav Shadrin, who's an Indigenous representative from the Arctic region. So this panel is going to talk about the priorities for research on Indigenous food systems from the perspectives of the different panellists and their Indigenous peoples. So I'd like to start, if possible, with Hindu. Hello and a warm welcome to you, Hindu Ibrahim. Thank you very much for joining us. Hindu is a member of Chad's pastoralist Bora Bora community and an activist for Indigenous peoples' rights and climate change and women's rights. And you have five minutes for each speaker. Please go ahead, Hindu. Thank you very much, Christian. And hi everyone. It's really a great pleasure being here today and thanks for the summary. That's actually you discuss a lot about all the Indigenous food system. So as in my introduction, I am coming from Sahel regions. I am coming from Chad. And my people in Bora are a pastoralist, a cattle helvis. And still most of us are nomadic, 100%, moving from one place to another one to found what in pastures. And some of us are semi-nomadic and then they settle in one place and doing like a rural pastoralist. So our food system mainly is based on pastoralist. So for us, milk is the main base of our daily food system. And it is also our economy. And peoples outside benefit from what we produce from the milk, from the butter, and also from the meat. Because our cattle is helping to feed peoples on the cities and peoples across countries. So in my community, we are transmondering peoples living across Chad, Cameroon, Niger, Nigeria, Central Africa Republic. But when you take just to Chad, the cattle from all pastoralist communities, it's make about 20% of the GDP. And that means it's cover a lot of food system. I mean food, as indigenous peoples, we do not call it food security. We call it food sovereignty. So it's ensure the sovereignty of food of many regions around the country. And every two days that cattle in the feed are crossing the border to Nigeria, to Cameroon, even to Gabon, just to sell them. And that's every two days. Before I get born to today, it's never stopped just to give you the numbers of the millions of cattle that we do have. In addition to the cattle, we do have ships, goats, and some chicken of course, because it's normal for us in each families, each communities that they have a different kind of animals in order to cope. It is not just of having them as richness, but having them as a system of sustaining the land that we do have, because it is not all the land that can be with the some cattle. And we do have the peoples who are more in the between the Sahara and Sahel, who have also camels. So from all this for us, it's construised our productions. So then it's ensure our food sovereignty and ensure our economy. But the challenge are the land, because we cannot talk about all the food system from the pastoralist or from the farmings without that focusing on the land. And I think it is the same in many indigenous communities. So in Africa, most of the land belong to government in the constitutions. And then like in Chad, they say the land belong to the government in cost money land, it's recognized. So it's make a confusions, because while we are nomadic when we move, and maybe we can move up to six months or nine months before to come to the same place. And at that time, and especially with the climate change impact, the land that we use, it's fertile more than the others that pastoralists are not passing through it because of our Cauchy. And those land are sell it by the peoples who are sedentarized, because they talk about the customary lands. And that create a big confusions. And it is beyond the government resolutions, because it is transbonding issues, then it's become a big issues. And for us, it is not a land issue only because it is impacting our food system and our food sovereignty.  When I was so young, so we used to milk two times a day during the rain season, morning and then evening. And during the dry season, we milk one times a day so we can choose other we milk like every morning, or we milk every afternoon. But today, actually, we can milk during the dry season, only every two days, because there is not enough milk at all. And why the reason of two every two days. The first day, we milk for ourselves. The second day, we leave the milk for the baby cow to all the fields to have enough milk from the moms. So we try to make the balance. And this system, we didn't learn it from the academia or whatever. We learn it by living in harmony with our own caters. And we know how to share between the baby caters that sustain our life and between the needs that we do have. And in this quantity of the milk that we are losing. So it's give opportunity to Western milk powder selling. This is the big disaster in all the Sahara regions and including in my regions. So while our communities are very far, they cannot conserve. I mean, we don't have electricity. We don't have fridge, whatever. So we cannot conserve all the milk in the daily basis. So people's use the food powder milk in all the cities in destruction of our own men food system or food economy. So then at the end of the day, there is no, I mean, concurrence, how they say that it's so people's founding that the product milk are much cheaper. And then they try to use the product milk to transform it through the yogurt. And then at the end of the day, like all the food system that you have from the bio from the original from the indigenous are replaced by all the fake industrialized milk that's coming. So this is in all the regions is impacting a lot the food system but also the health of the people's because the content of the milk as pastoral is we know that it is not the same at all. So that is the big challenges that we have. So what will be the focus of research I am by this one. The focus will be must be actually the land right fast. We cannot talk about the food system without focusing on the land rights for indigenous peoples. If my peoples do not have a land today, if they cannot move freely through all our corridors, we cannot ensure our food sovereignty in our peoples and we cannot also ensure it for the peoples outside that benefiting as I said, 20% of the GDPs, but every two days that we are selling to Nigeria to Gabon to all our caters. So it's make a big economy and it's make also a food security. The second thing they need to focus on it. It's the food sovereignty not the food security because the food security it's just a response for the urgency needs and after that what. So there is no sustainability. There is no continuity. So for us food sovereignty as indigenous peoples call it, it is how we can ensure our own knowledge system of sustaining our pastoralist and sustaining our farms and building the coalition with other communities in order to exchange our product and this market for not today but for all the next seven generation that coming because in my culture we have the seven generations thinking. So like personally I have to know my seven last grandfather's names and what they did in them life. And when I thinking today I have to think about the next seven coming generation that I have to leave, and it is like an obligation that I have to know all the names, what they did in them live and then be aspire for the next upcoming. So this system on our knowledge in our governance can help us to sustain it for the long term, but it's need to be just like a protect in our communities and safeguards. So for doing that we need to have indigenous peoples traditional knowledge to get recognized respected at the same level that science knowledge, because I get the discussion with the scientists, and then they are saying that, oh if we come to your communities.  I'm like, who are you to confirm the knowledge of the centuries and 1000 of years of my peoples. You cannot confirm it because you just don't know how to write or how to read in French English Arabic or whatever our knowledge in our mother tongues are the most important and we don't need a confirmation from someone outside who can say he's as per than us no one can as per than indigenous peoples. This recognition is very important to be highlight and to be focused and then share among all the research and academia are the people's who can help us to drive these ideas. Lastly, there are not access of direct finance to indigenous peoples food system. We don't want it to be a beneficiary when there are like catastrophe like this year, we have a lot of flood in all the Sahara regions in all the towns. At the end of the day we got the map of hunger that showing all of us that chat is the most of vulnerables. We never had that in our life plus 35% of hunger. You can check it on the World Food Program map 2020. So why for us there is no direct access to funding to indigenous peoples that can protect our own food system when it's become to all the crisis from drought to flood. So we need to build our own resilience but we don't want it to be a beneficiary that people come to act. We wanted to build it from our self and take it out to the peoples in order to feed them. At the end of the day we are the one who are putting the food in the tables of the peoples who are sitting at the offices so they need to recognize and respect us. Thank you so much. Thank you so much Hindu that was wonderful. Big big clap for you. Sorry we can't have the clapping on this. Thank you that was so clear. So I'm not going to make any comments. We're going to pass on to the next panelist. I'd like to ask Frank Roy and Frank to briefly introduce. He is a, he belongs to the Cassie matriarchal indigenous community of Meghalaya in North East India. And he has worked with the UN for many years and served as assistant president of IFAD. Over to you Frank. You have five minutes hopefully. Thank you. Thank you very much Christina. Can you hear me. And thank you also for your very, very good and excellent summary of the last two discussions. This food systems is an area where many of us know very little about it. And in the last two seminars of this virtual workshop. To summarize indigenous speakers give vivid accounts of the connectedness of their food and knowledge systems to nature to place and community based learnings to evolving cultures and rituals. And today I'd like to only takes, not an example, but some of the key lessons that I learned after hearing all these discussions. Christina, using the example of the Cordillera region and by Joe of the Philippines. Give a vivid account of how the full impact of industrial agriculture at the local level is not fully appreciated by national policymakers who are eager to simply monetize agriculture. We spoke about how biodiversity rich home gardens, shifting cultivation and culture based livelihood practices have in the process been marginalized and made this functional. The problem with traditional research on indigenous food system, if I may say, is the historical perception that there is something backward. There is something underdeveloped, and it's problem problematic. UN publications have highlighted the concrete contributions that indigenous food systems have made to its sustainability, but this is not enough. Today, more than ever, we must gather evidence at the local level to demonstrate to our local and national policymakers how destructive the industrial agriculture is towards indigenous food system and indeed towards the well being of all. Our local data that we generate must inform their strategies. This to me I feel is a very, very important priority if we are to have an impact to consolidate our indigenous food systems. The other research priority for me must be to mainstream indigenous perspectives and knowledge that are often overlooked in conventional mainstream research. Culture rituals and local knowledge systems, as we heard in the last two seminars, have contributed to the well being of various indigenous communities. Our research work must also contribute to the body of knowledge of indigenous people themselves for their own needs as a people, rather than as an object of investigation. I feel this is a very important change that will have a major impact. As indigenous peoples, we expect that the research approach must be an appreciative inquiry, which is respectful, culturally appropriate, ethical and reciprocal. It must, as Hindu mentioned just now, we must take into account the rights of indigenous people and it must be consistent with the main principles enshrined in the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous People. Research priorities within indigenous communities, as we all know, is constructed through everyday experiences and relations between communities and the landscapes around them. They learn by observing, by listening and by contributing where women, children and elders play an equal part. Our research methodologies must include these aspects of indigenous knowledge generation. Story telling, for example, could become an important instrument to capture these processes in our research work. Our research priorities must also identify practical infrastructure challenges. I'll give an example. In 2012, our Northeast India project presented about 100 species and varieties of wild edibles and fruits to slow foods arc of taste inventory. FAO found that most of these species and varieties were not listed in FAO's inventory, but no nutrition analysis could be undertaken thoroughly for one of an appropriate laboratory nearby. These are some of the constraints that we face. Finally, in co-creation, research work must move beyond just multidisciplinary into a more multicultural approach, where you combine indigenous ecological knowledge and modern Western science. In indigenous communities and indigenous organizations, such as the indigenous partnership for agro-biodiversity and food sovereignty that I lead here, and his partners must play a leading role in indigenous territories with FAO, IAD and other supporting organizations. By empowering indigenous communities, we will co-create a meaningful research agenda. As an indigenous organization, we extend our hand of collaboration and support along this less travel destination. Thank you. Thank you so much, Frank Roy. That was really great summarizing again the key points and then some really important priorities for research from your great experience. Big hand for you. Thank you. Right, so we're now going to hear from Edmund Dunias about hunter-gatherers. Edmund is representative for Indonesia, for the French National Research Institute for Sustainable Development, IRD, and he has a lot of experience among hunter-gatherer societies in Congo, Basin, Sumatra and Borneo. So please go ahead, Edmund. Welcome. Thank you, Christina, for giving me the floor and to briefly evoke a particular category of indigenous peoples, the prison-day hunter-gatherers, and my main points are summarized here in a nutshell. So prison-day hunter-gatherers are indigenous peoples whose ways of life are essentially based on the collection of non-domestic resources. Many of them are now referred to as post-foragers, even that these peoples are increasingly forced to renounce to their hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Their heavy dependence on wild resources exposes them more than any other indigenous peoples to the dramatic degradation of their natural ecosystems. Prison-day hunter-gatherers are estimated to be up to 10 million individuals max. They represent less than 2% of the indigenous peoples group and 0.12% of the world's population. But this tiny portion of human kind is the custodian of 6% of the languages still spoken in the world today. So they are small in numbers, but highly diverse and highly threatened. There is a striking parallel with a broad part of the biological diversity composed of countless species that are small in number of individuals, extremely localized, and which may have disappeared before we know that they ever existed. Prison-day hunter-gatherers are mobile and move around over vast territories regardless of state borders. This often impairs the recognition of the right to citizenship. Prison-day hunter-gatherers are egalitarian peoples. The absence of leadership raises problems of representativeness in the political arenas and also impacts on how field surveys are conducted as it implies working with the entire community. Prison-day hunter-gatherers are doubly penalized. They are ostracized, stigmatized, marginalized as indigenous peoples, but they are also often treated all the same by other indigenous peoples. Therefore, they are systematically excluded from political arenas where other indigenous peoples have representatives. Prison-day hunter-gatherers still arouse our western collective imaginary. Unfortunately, fantasy and ill-cubration gets the upper hand over the objective reality of their life conditions. An anachronic image of primitive noble savage persist among the general public, the media, and decision-makers who feed these people as a reminiscence of our pre-agricultural pasts. Two diametrically opposed but equally harmful attitudes results from this. Either we want to lock hunter-gatherers up in eco-museums as one would do with a mammoth bone, other we want them to give up a way of life that most authorities consider as non-descent. In Israel case, we ignore that there are contemporaries and they are deprived of the right to self-determination. Prison-day hunter-gatherers are often caught between a rock and a hard place because they are just as much victims of the destruction of their environment by economic expansion as they are by conservation policies. Last but not the least, hunter-gatherer children are all too often forgotten interlocutors. In contrast to our western system of thoughts, hunter-gatherers do not consider their children as just adults to be. Children are full-fledged actors within households. They are their own culture forged on the perception of their environments that is not that of adults. They are holders of a substantial part of the knowledge of the society and they transmitted horizontally to each other without the intervention of adults. They also hold their own self-determination, which is not controlled by any parental authority. Taking an interest in hunter-gatherer ecological knowledge requires working also with children and obtaining the direct informed consent. But this may expose the researcher to ethical barriers vis-à-vis an international child-right legislation that does not take into account the particularities of these peoples. To conclude, we need to dedicate specific efforts, resources and methodological thinking towards hunter-gatherer societies despite the fact that they represent only a minor fraction of the indigenous peoples. Thank you all for your attention and back to you, Christina. Thank you so much, Edmund. That was really great and so interesting to hear about hunter-gatherers, which I didn't know so much about. And as you say, you know, they're important part of the indigenous community of the indigenous cultural diversity, which is often overlooked. And we need to give them special attention for that reason. So thank you so much. So we have one last panelist. Now we have Viacheslav Shadrin. I hope he's here. He's an indigenous representative from the Arctic. Hello, everybody. My name is Viacheslav Shadrin. I am chief of council of Yucca Gear Elders and represent Yucca Gear people who live on the Arctic shore, on the Arctic Ocean shore. And now I want to say some words about our traditional food system. This traditional food system is the same for our neighbors. It's Ivanky, Ivank, Dolgan and Chukchi people, which are lived neighbor on our territories. And our food system is determined by the habitat. The extreme climate and living condition influenced the dear of indigenous peoples. The modern food culture of the peoples has undergone significant changes with the loss of traditions. The cause of many diseases is poor nutrition, lack of vitamins and minerals. The specific genetics of our peoples does not allow the use of modern food products and drinks. The way out of the situation of extinction of the northern peoples is to return us to our former economic structure and traditional food culture, which is closely related to traditional nature management. The traditional culture of the peoples of the north is based on hunting, reindeer husbandry and fishing. At the same time, each of these peoples has its own cooking skills and special culinary recipes, but main food system is the same. A characteristic feature of this food culture is the consumption of raw foods without heat treatment. Those who eat raw meats and fish do not get scurvy, do not suffer from vitamin deficiency. We distinguish three types of raw meat consumed.  Such meat is distinguished by its tenderness, softness and special taste. In a mixture of blood and milk, the drink is considered healing. The second type of consumption of raw meat is steamed, size it by frost. Maybe you listen about straganina. Straganina is made from such meat, fish cut into thin long shavings, flavored with hot spices, herbs, frozen berries and others. And the third types of meat consumption is dried in the cold and wind. There are various ways of cooking fish. It can be eaten both raw and frozen, salted, baked in ash, sometimes boiled, but never fried. The favorite hot dish of all northern peoples is tea with milk. Eating eggs and pot rich meat are cooked using local herbs. Thus, the traditional food culture of our peoples corresponds to the genetic characteristics of our peoples, the northern climate and our way of life. The desire of every nation to return to its roots, our region and traditions has not been lost. It is necessary to help our people in creating conditions for economic management and revival of the culture of the northern people. It is necessary to restore the connection of the organism of our peoples with the external environment, with the ecological conditions of life. The indigenous peoples of the north eat non-traditional food products for other peoples which allow the body to fully develop in harsh climatic conditions. And this is why I support, for example, which says my friend, Hindu, that we must preserve our lands because the main challenge for us now is industrialization. And this industrialization comes to our lands and we lose our lands. And this is maybe the main challenge for us. Thank you so much. That's really, really great to hear about your food system again that I know very little about about the Arctic north. And interesting that at the end, you know, you mentioned the issue of land rights, which seems to be so vitally important. All of you mentioned that as a really critical element, which underpins the whole food system. So I'm afraid we don't have time to go into questions now for the panelists, but you provided a really rich food for thought for our breakout groups. So I want to thank you all once again. I hope you'll be staying for the breakout group so we can interact more with you and those smaller groups. So big hand to you. Thank you so much, all of you. So, yes, we're now going to have some smaller group discussions, some more sort of brainstorming and digging deeper into what, you know, research could be done on these key priorities you've highlighted. And I'm going to first of all ask Philip Orion from Q just to quickly give an overview of why we need to do research interdisciplinary research. We've heard now about indigenous people's priorities. But we also want to think about how we can use different disciplines to address those priorities because they cross so many different disciplines. So, Philippa, would you like to quickly say a few words of introduction on that theme. Hi everyone. So, in general, different elements within indigenous food systems are mostly studied separately to date. But what we've been hearing in all of the talks in the last days. We've highlighted the connectedness between agro biodiversity, local environments, agricultural practices, foods and nutrition, and also the cultural and spiritual importance of seeds and related rituals. Recently, several talks have now highlighted how farming systems are changing rapidly with both crop and food diversity being lost and further threatened by issues with land rights and climate change, and because of increasingly endangered traditional knowledge systems. It's clear therefore that developing interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary approaches is important for studying indigenous people's food systems from a holistic perspective for documenting knowledge to understand drivers of change and to understand the relationship between biodiversity and cultural heritage more broadly. So I'll pass back to Christina. Thank you very much, Philippa. So, it might just seem a bit abstract still what we mean by interdisciplinary research, why we need it so just illustrate a little bit further. I mean for example, you know we know there's a need for better understanding of the relationship between biodiversity and cultural heritage. So really biological science, we won't be able to fully understand that relationship. So, you know, it's really important to engage you know humanities anthropology, and other subjects to really understand these relationships. And to avoid the research in one sector is going to undermine objectives in another sector, like we heard from Joji that forest conservation science is, is, you know, mistakenly assuming that swisting shifting cultivation is causing deforestation. And that's because it's only been done from one perspective if you if you look at it from a different perspective a different like timeline, you will come up with a different understanding. And, and there's also different disciplines provide different sources of evidence that we can use together. So for example in agriculture you can find, you know you can generate evidence of the resilience of crops today. But if you look at the archaeo botanical evidence you can then show that they've had a long term history of very long term history of cultivation in one place. And that shows their suitability for the local context. That's the sort of thing that Philip has been doing. And I would say that research involving indigenous knowledge and you know Western science is also a kind of interdisciplinary approach or maybe into epistemological if that's, if that's the word. So anyway, hopefully that gives makes it a little bit more tangible of what we would like to discuss in the groups. And so the objectives of the breakout groups are to to further explore and discuss the research priorities of indigenous peoples. And so that is in terms of both the issues and the approaches. And then secondly to share ideas for interdisciplinary research. For example, how can different disciplines be combined to fully understand indigenous people's food systems, and to better address the priorities of indigenous peoples, and to better address the many challenges that indigenous food systems face. We haven't done a literature review to identify what these gaps are so the idea is just to share ideas from what different people know we have lots of researchers working in different disciplines and indigenous peoples and they're all going to be mixed in in each of the groups. So hopefully it'll be a good learning experience for everybody. So we're going to go into the groups, the timing wise we will have half an hour from now. So we will finish at 1225. That's British time so half an hour from now. We're randomly assigned into a group, and each group will have a facilitator. So we'll have Philip Orion guiding one group and Mark Nesbitt, who's also from Q in another group, and I will be in the third group, and they will report back, or ask somebody in the group to report back. I hope that's clear. And I think we're ready to go into the more in depth groups. Great, well that went really quickly it was really interesting. Can I ask Mark or Philippa, would you like to go first and provide like a three minute highlight or have you asked somebody else in your group to report back. I'll have a quick go. I think more or less covering both both angles at the same time. Yeah, so when one of the key things was idea of looking for long term solutions. So idea of what is a long term sustainable system beyond sort of receiving any help for just immediate crises and a big topic of discussion. And then adding interdisciplinary research gaps is about the dichotomy of needing to get metrics to measure impact. And then the difference between that and actually that being about the metrics that we need for our funding proposals and things versus what research actually means to people on the ground. There's no other issues, for example, issues of authorship of research. But the issue of metrics and to move so one idea is that you could always try and use a mix of qualitative and quantitative approaches and bits still to try and get some numbers. For example, if you were looking at value change you could see what how successful you are getting foods to to market. But also a problem always with the metrics is then how long a time frame, you need to get that sort of information and that is often sitting outside the boundaries of funding regimes. So there's an idea that maybe we need advocacy from the scientific community to try and change that sort of the funding cycles because we need a long time as well to build relationships. And Julian was mentioning where he works partnering partnering with an NGO and developing citizen science approaches manages to leave a long term impact because people can keep generating data over a longer term. And Lucas also mentioned that as researchers we often come with our own agendas so that needs to be more input from the access on the research priorities of indigenous communities. And then Veronica mentioned that if you work more with the indigenous peoples institutions during the process of research, that means that there's a flexibility because community interests do change, so this could keep being inputted. And then another point on indigenous research priorities is how important it is to talk to all the different kinds of categories of people in the community, because different people have different sorts of knowledge. For example, children often forage foods a little bit independently and those sorts of snacks and not always documented. So that was the main thing so I'm just going to have a quick look through because I have lots of notes. Ah yes and another point was that we often look at indigenous food systems and isolation that they are often connected with other nearby cultures. So we need to think about how they're working in the context of other cultures and then also more broadly intercultural relationships and circulating knowledge. So having a broader broader approach. So, I think that's that's a summary. Thanks. Great. Thanks a lot, Philippa. Thank you so much. Would you like to share three minutes of the key points from your. Yeah. So it's been very much for the first. So we decided I think really, but it wasn't so useful to discuss the, if you like the combination of disciplines required. And there was a really good point from Harriet Deacon was more important to break down the key concepts in addressing a particular topic. The group that can tackle those, those concepts. So take it as read that these are interdisciplinary projects. And so the first point that came out was livelihoods underpin everything says no activity or research or subject that you can work on where if at the end of the day people can't feed themselves and make livelihoods. And while they're doing that, it's not going to succeed. So that's a really high priority. Subject that came up quite a few times was important to rituals and communities, not just for community management of resources but also community cohesion, performing sovereignty, and the importance again of underpinning the importance of livelihoods and the practical support, but they need to continue. And so relating to how can you provide that practical support we talked a little bit about mapping resources, how that maps into access, how you can work the whole range of researchers and indigenous peoples around climate around cultural dimensions. So we talked a lot about governance is absolutely crucial to all of this. What is the relationship between local power and national power, how can you get buy in from national government to systems that empower local communities, what's happening in competitive spaces. Another subject is maybe not being talked about enough today, gender and women's health, and in particular taking a more nuanced approach. Understanding we talked about children earlier, but there are many different women, children, there are widows, all different forms of participation in society, and perhaps more broadly and neglected areas around women's health and plants gender, women's health is really important. We talked more, if you like conceptually around the tension between innovation and preservation of traditional ways, which especially we're looking at livelihoods when you're looking at the support for crafts for example what happens with external markets, innovation is a really important subject to research and find solutions. Finally, we talked about loss of data, but you can do all the wonderful collaborative research in the world, but if we're, let's say plant readers 1000 miles away, working with your material to support indigenous food systems, and they didn't have access to your data or they're not working with you, that loss of data over distance and over disciplines can really weaken the value of research. Thank you, that's all. Great, thanks a lot Mark. Right, so I'll finish off quick report back from our group. We, we learned about the multiple evidence approach that the Stockholm Resilience Centre is has developed as a way to use both indigenous peoples knowledge and scientific knowledge in a sort of equitable research process. So they both provide by using both knowledge systems you get a richer picture of reality and a deeper understanding. And we then talked about how how you know the importance of community led research and we discussed the issue of well what should be the role of academics in that sort of research. You know how can academics help and really emphasizing issues like you know it's so critical to understand indigenous communities, you know governance system before you start your research and even if you understand the language it's takes a long time to understand the culture. And we talked about how indigenous peoples don't have separate fields they don't have separate disciplines everything's linked to one another. And they have somebody mentioned before many different categories of you know sort of instead of three seasons they have six seasons, and these are all related to food production. So a really holistic approach which essentially the message I got is that indigenous peoples holistic world views are already interdisciplinary. And if we just follow their world views and conceptual frameworks we that can guide us in doing interdisciplinary research that's useful for indigenous peoples. Beyond Fernandez from Larry Nora from FAO stress the fact that you know today what we call knowledge scientific knowledge is not always knowledge it's you know increasingly it's just sort of information. And that indigenous knowledge is actually contains a huge amount of wisdom because it's centuries old and that's often something overlooked it's actually you know really rich in knowledge. And Florence from the Philippines highlighted a few areas where science could help understanding and their own research on indigenous food systems, like for example nutritional analysis which is much quicker to do if you use science.  And you know there's a lot of things that indigenous peoples and science can work on together provided there's this, you know, proper mutual respect. And then Roger Blench pointed out that, and that we can that scientists can give their research back to indigenous peoples, and that it's sort of easier now than ever he's developing Android apps, so that indigenous peoples can use the research as part of their building their own knowledge base. And so he's sharing ethno botanical research with indigenous peoples in that way. And he's also pointed out that, even though research funders keep banging on about interdisciplinary research. Actually the academic system discourages interdisciplinary research. There's no incentives because people don't want to publish into interdisciplinary research. And the Yiching song from China. And then quite a few people actually stressed that what what Hindu said really resonates with their situation with their own indigenous people situation and those indigenous peoples in China. And Yiching emphasized that we really need to give the empower communities, enable them to play a really key role and respect them and respect their wisdom, and communities she repeating again that communities already bring all the sectors together. And so they can lead us in terms of the interdisciplinary research, and that we also need to work at different levels so ensuring that we influence policymakers. I think that was about it if anyone wants to add from my group. Did I miss anything important. Please go ahead. The, the idea now is really we have about a few minutes just if anybody wants to continue this discussion of anything important as a note in the, in the chat. Stephanie would you like to say. Yeah, thanks I'm still here but I don't want to take time because I know you're already running a bit late. Maybe just to mention the role of social movements so in all the issues we discussed, talking about structural issues so I think, in my view there's not enough emphasis on issues of access to land, you know, management of land, land use management and all of these issues so who's involved in this. What are social movements in the different regions doing also human rights groups. There's a lot of activity we don't always hear it. It's not always published you know we, we, we work together for example with great organization women's organizations farmers organizations, and there's a lot of work being done already. I'm not talking only about indigenous peoples and groups but also other people who use similar resources I mean if we think of the different user groups. So just to, to mention that also we need some kind of activism I think some kind of action also from researchers. So we're not purely researchers but I think we, we have much more potential. We always talk about, especially in the UK about impact societal impact. So what's happening with our research and how can we join forces to to actually do something and to change things. Thanks very much for the space. And at the point I think I'm much more of an activist than I am a researcher. So we have a note from Julian. Would you like to say that as well. Yeah. So, I think another aspect of research gaps. I always try to think it also as a geographical research gaps, because at least areas that are. The Caribbean myself and the thing is that there are certain areas that are understudied or historically overlooked, such as the Antillian Caribbean meaning the islands, and the South Pacific as well. You know, the areas of the world they're facing the brunt of the climatic crisis, and they already have, or are implementing solutions to this type of problems of food sovereignty. Action against the climate crisis. So it's just kind of like us as researchers to give them the space in our platforms to actually engage with the broader global communities as well. Great. Thank you. A note from Hindu. I think we'll finish there and then move on. We've got one last presentation from FAO in a minute. Hindu, would you like to make your comment? It is exactly as what I put it. It is very important to see how the relevant technology can help the indigenous peoples to put them knowledge and try to build the resilience for the communities. We do have the example of where it's really work well, but not all the technology. Thanks. Thank you so much. I realize I've missed some important details like what Penilla said, but everything's going to be captured and we'll have a detailed report so we need to move on now. Can I ask, is it Anne Brunel or Yom Ferdinandeth? We're going to now look at what is the global hub on indigenous food systems that was mentioned on Friday morning right at the start of the workshop. Basically it's come out of the FAO high expert seminar and on indigenous food systems in 2018 and I think it's useful for us to know about because it's a way of linking research to policy. So over to you please FAO, if you could keep it to five minutes that would be great. Thank you so much Christina and good morning, good afternoon to everyone. We'll try to keep it to keep it as short as possible. I think it's a great honor to be with you again and again congratulations for the excellent discussions we are learning so much. It's a great pleasure to be with many colleagues and organizations that are already collaborating and members of the hub. As you know in today's FAO will turn 75 years old. And Food and Agriculture Organization was born some days before the UN, giving a lot of importance to food and how food plays a crucial role in the human lives of all of us. So I think it's great that today we are with all of you talking about indigenous food systems. So last Friday we talked about the high level expert seminar on indigenous food systems in November 2018. And the main result of this expert seminar was the overall agreement that we needed to create a global hub on indigenous people's food systems to work in a more coordinated and integrated way across the different organizations. Now, what is the global hub in very few words? The global hub is a platform that brings together actors such as indigenous organizations, universities, research centers, UN, and other interested actors that are already working on indigenous food systems with the objectives to enhance the learning, the preservation, and the promotion of indigenous food systems. And it's going to show you in a minute the global hub in the stream, and I will continue telling you a little bit about what the global hub is. There's already 17 institutions that have joined the global hub. And we have a number of UN organizations, but there are some universities that we are very pleased with the research work they are doing. And of course, several indigenous organizations along with C4, along with biodiversity, along with IRD, but also tips, for example, and the work that Fran Roy and Lucas are doing is part of the global hub. Now, why are the objectives of the global hub meaningful? Indigenous peoples have been feeding themselves sustainably for hundreds of years, thanks to their food systems and unique territorial management practices. However, in 2019, many of the 850 million undernourished people were indigenous persons due to historical discrimination, economic and environmental marginalization, lack of respect of the rights and no access to public services. The pressure from extractive industries, large-scale agricultural schemes and the criminalization, killing and displacement of indigenous peoples has placed them in situations of increased vulnerability and food insecurity. This trend far from stopping during the COVID-19 pandemic has been further exacerbated. Indigenous peoples' food systems can play a significant role in informing the transformation of food systems, making them more sustainable, climate resilient, nutritious and respectful of nature. And this is extremely important within the UN Food Systems Summit in 2021 as part of the UN Decade of Action on Nutrition, and of course within the Sustainable Development Goal 2 for Zero Hunger that is directly linked to a full mandate. The third point I want to make is that indigenous peoples' traditional knowledge is disappearing at an alarming speed. The traditional knowledge of indigenous peoples supports the sustainability and resilience of these food systems and is part of the culture of cosmogony and identity of indigenous peoples. However, the migration of youth, the monetization of the food systems, the rural-urban migration along with the current education schemes are affecting the inter- and intra-generational transmission of knowledge. There is need for immediate and coordinated urgent action to support the preservation of indigenous peoples' knowledge transmission to reverse this trend. And I want to make a call for the need for intercultural education, that is something that we are lacking in many of the countries where we are working. What the global hub will do and what is the approach? The global hub will bring together different actors and the idea is to provide evidence of the potential for indigenous peoples' food systems and their ancestral knowledge in protecting biodiversity, while informing the transformation of food systems to be more sustainable. It will bridge gaps between orality and written forms of communication, placing scientific knowledge and indigenous scientific knowledge at the same level. It will align research agendas and it will work on knowledge co-creation, which was one of the core principles of the global hub that he was agreeing. Always in equal consideration to indigenous scientific ancestral knowledge, traditional knowledge, and written academic knowledge through different academic bodies. Let me pass the floor to Anne very briefly. Over to you, Anne. Hi, colleagues. Thank you so much for your attendance today. So very briefly, I will give you an overview of the structure of the global hub that is based on four pillars and I will share my screen again very shortly. Oops, sorry. Can you see it? So we have first a Knowledge Bureau's platform. This is exactly what we are doing today is about speaking about approaches and how we can create knowledge and generate knowledge together with indigenous peoples. We have also an online database of knowledge that will gather publications, articles, and any materials on indigenous food system for documenting. An important point that I need to mention is that these four pillars are in compliant with a free prior and from consent principle and the intellectual property rights of indigenous peoples. The third area of work which is extremely important is technical advice in policy. So many ideas is like to gather evidence to influence policies on food system transformations and sustainability. So we work towards this aim. And finally, it's about creating synergies with different members and networks of the global hub and how to design disciplinary and participatory research on indigenous peoples food systems. So these are the four pillars of work. And I will just mention that if I will place the role of secretary of the global hub and I will pass on to Jan back again. Thank you. And to conclude Christina, just to mention that the global hub will be supporting with evidence based inputs, the process of the UN Food Systems Summit, the Voluntary Guidelines from Food Systems in the World Committee on Food Security, as well as the decade of indigenous language and the decade of ecosystem restoration. The hub is always welcoming research institute universities and indigenous organizations that have hands on experience on indigenous peoples food systems. And I think we are very pleased to respond to any questions that you might have. Thank you again for the use of the word. Thank you so much. I mean, I think this is such a great initiative. And, you know, I'm really keen to know how in sort of practical terms how we can try and contribute. I mean, a lot of our research isn't in a journal article. Does that mean it's still useful for you to because obviously, you know, it'd be great if we can use the outcomes of this workshop to contribute to your collective inputs into the process for the Food Systems Summit. I don't know if that would be possible. I don't know if I, if you allow me to react Christina quickly to this. What you say is very true. We face a situation where many of the researchers and academics are issuing journals and research papers, and at the same time indigenous peoples hold a wealth of knowledge in their communities. At the same time, as you know, in the UN Food Systems Summit, they have created a committee of scientists and experts that are debating what are the scientific contributions that are going to be analyzed by the policymakers and these UN Food Systems Summit. So we had a meeting with them and we had a meeting with the professor that is the chair of the scientific group. We told them how are you going to ensure that indigenous peoples voices are included in this, in this process. And there were a number of suggestions and one of them was to hold an exchange of knowledge and an exchange of dialogues directly with indigenous peoples. And we took the role from the global hub to facilitate this process. The hub is a tremendous facilitation and coordination effort. The heart of the global hub is the research being done by indigenous peoples themselves and by some dedicated institutions that are working with them for several years. So the idea is to remove from the journals, not to remove, to bring up from the journals all of these wealth of information and from the communities and put it at the table of the decision makers so that they cannot say that they didn't know about. This is the ultimate goal of the hub right now, given the immediacy of the UN Food Systems Summit. Great, thank you. Does anybody have any questions? Okay, I was just wondering if the profiles that you mentioned on the first day. Are they available on this knowledge hub on your nice new website. You said you'd done some 12 profiles of indigenous food systems. I mean, we profile initially 12 indigenous food systems the work of FAO on indigenous food systems was started by the nutrition division in 2009 with McGill University and Professor Harriet Kuhn Lane. We published two books in 2009 2013. We have to be publishing a book by the end of the year with eight of these 12 indigenous profiles. We have a scientific committee that includes indigenous peoples and we have with us Fran Roy who has been very actively working with us in the in the publication but also many of the colleagues in biodiversity and the results will be published by the end of the year. We are already working in Iran, China, Kyrgyzstan. We want to start work in Russia. We are working in Indonesia with other indigenous communities to see whether we can publish in the coming year another book on different food systems. We are giving a lot of relevance to hunter gatherers. I think Professor Edmond was talking about the importance of these food systems that often go over look, but also Arctic food systems and the approach is not a country approach. The approach is really unique territorial management practice in relation to the ecosystem that has been able to generate food for hundreds of years for the community jet to preserve biodiversity. So this is the approach that we are following. And of course we will be very glad to to coordinate with all of you and see if we can expand our joint work. That's great. I mean there's lots of universities here. I don't know if there's a role for UK universities to feed evidence into this hub or not. Maybe you could comment on that. Can I make one point quickly? The internet is littered with plant databases, giving information about useful plants, almost all of which have failed to be updated due to lack of funding. And I can think of, you know, seven or eight that are scattered around the internet. I wonder how far FAO is able to pick up some of these databases that are frozen in time, integrate, scrape the information into their knowledge hub, and maybe help understand how we can keep these databases updated and preferably integrated with each other, because otherwise there's an awful lot of lost knowledge out there. Professor Roger, this is something that we would like to see if we could talk to you about and certainly we are interested. As you know, the UN is tremendously underfunded and the contributions from the countries they shrink every year and we are not a financial institution or an international. But in any case, we will try to run the extra mile and see how we can do to make sure that this information and this knowledge is not lost. Because as you say, it's very true. Sometimes we are reinventing the wheel and there's already a lot of networks and information and databases available that then don't get populated or maintained. So we would like to talk to you after this conference about these opportunities. Thank you. Please, you're welcome. Just a quick comment following up on that one of the things that I think it's a time so overlooked is that with this type of databases and, and you know, the aspect of like the researcher is in charge of creating a database and that's how we quantify our data but as well. If we if the the one with the rights of the database where the communities themselves and the researchers and the community work together on how to create them and how to fill them up. Then the researcher is not the one with the brunt of actually keeping up with the database itself the communities can then you know decide what to put in and how to coordinate it and not to have all these databases. And then there's a ghost around the internet. Thanks Julian that that's a really good point. I mean obviously there are intellectual property issues and the communities don't always want to share all their knowledge. So I think that's a good point and we're going to hear hopefully tomorrow from the potato part community database, and then that's part of their methodology. And so the research creates a database which is the community register that stays within the community and they can update it and use it themselves. So we've come to the end now so that links very well to our last webinar tomorrow, which we're going to explore the research methods to look into these priorities that have come up today. And we're going to start with looking at interdisciplinary research methods like ethnobotany and here some quick talks from several different researchers about their methods that have been applied for indigenous food systems. And then we're going to hear about decolonizing research methods of indigenous peoples. And we have a wonderful professor from Botswana who's done a lot of the theoretical work between behind decolonizing research methods, decolonizing the mind as Jan Fernandes mentioned at the beginning. So thank you very much. I've really enjoyed today I've learned loads. Sorry I'm quite tired, but I'm also very hungry. So it's been a great pleasure once again and I hope you've enjoyed it as well. And tomorrow we're starting at 11 o'clock again.


Hello and welcome to theCUBE, a really special conversation from Convalt Shift, where we've been really hearing about the announcement of Convalt Cloud. I'm just so excited to be joined here by Sanjay, CEO of Convalt and Rajiv, Chief Product Officer for Convalt, and we're going to continue that conversation. I think, again, sitting here and feeling the energy that is out there and there's a lot of people here, a lot of partners, a lot of collaborators, a lot of convolting, if that's what you call yourself. Vultures. Vultures. Very nice. I think one of the things I want to say is, first off, congratulations, because I think, really, when I take a step back from an analyst perspective and look at it, you guys are skating to where the puck is going. You're really taking initiative with this, and I think it's a really exciting announcement. Why don't you kind of give us an overview of what has brought you to Shift today? Sounds good. Well, thank you personally for following us, and we're a company that prides itself in some ways of listening to customers and partners, analysts, people that are smart and know where things are going, and we try to bring all that input into how we build products. Rajiv probably spends more time with customers than he does with his senior team, because what they tell us matters. And what we're announcing today at Combo Shift is a new platform. We started by calling it a solution, but it's much more than that. It's a platform because it allows partners to collaborate. It allows us to really deliver mission-critical capabilities that haven't been. It's a unified interface, not having to do artificial separation of SaaS versus software. It's extensible with APIs. It's got AI wired right through it. So it's an amazing new platform and you said Combo Cloud. And I'd say it's Combo Cloud powered by Metallic AI. So we're very excited. A lot of work's gotten into this. It's a brand new platform. It's been rigged and ground up to be cloud-native, and it's all about resilience. Yeah, I think that's, we'll kind of jump off of that, because I think cyber resilience, we just got out of October with Cyber Resilience Month, and which used to be called Backup Month, which is, so I'm glad that that's evolving as well, because it really is about being prepared for these cyber attacks. And you spent a lot of time talking about ransomware and other threats that are out there. You know, we'll start with Rajiv. What are you hearing from those customers as you go out about their preparedness? Because you're talking to a ton of them. You're surveying them. There was some data that you had there. How do I, as a backup administrator, exercise my recovery strategy to ensure that when the business comes to me to recover, how do we automatically do that? So that was the key pain point that I've been hearing from all our customers, and that's what we try to automate here. And to do that, you need ability to spin up infrastructure on the fly. You should be able to use some kind of automation, some kind of intelligence to make sure that you're bringing up the right set of application, and more importantly, predictability. How long will the recovery take? So those are the three major things, and I think that's what Palm World Cloud brings together today. I mean, it is about RPO and RTO, and true RTO and recovery time objective, because I think sometimes organizations look at it, and they have a number there that's artificial, just a number that's... It's theoretical. Yeah, and they really want to, I think, overachieve or underachieve, depending on the business that is driving them, especially, I mean, you would know, being a public company, they have certain requirements if they're in a financial institution, which I actually ran storage in DR for Maylife Financial and John Hancock, actually used Commvault back in that day as well, a number of companies, but I think when you look at it, you have certain things, you can't be out for a certain number of days because financial systems don't like that, and SEC doesn't like that. Rob, I was a CIO for a very large company, and you would think that anywhere in a tech company, it's not like getting access to technology was hard, but here's the reality. When you grow over 25 years, when you've acquired 80-odd companies or whatever your format is, every time you make an acquisition, you get a footprint of IT, then you have that long tail that you have to deal with, and it's not easy. These things are not easy, so if I'm trying to restore to Rajiv's point or test a tabletop exercise, my Oracle Core Supply Chain application or HR application, I need redundant infrastructure to be able to do that if you did it the old way. When I said this is a completely revolutionary way of doing it, we're breaking the shackles that IT has had to deal with, which is I need infrastructure to be able to tell you if I can recover something. What we're saying is why? You've got home ground advantage. Use this, we'll spin it up, you can test every workload as often as you want, develop your runbooks based on that, and when God forbid, you're going to have to call it, you know how to do it. Yeah, I think that's the key. We're breaking all the old boundaries of how it's done and how better to do it than the cloud. I mean, yeah. So Rajiv, I think again, some really exciting announcements that kind of tie into what we were just talking about. Why don't we launch into that and you give everybody a high level of what was going on? Cool. So a couple of announcements. The most exciting announcement for me, number one is clean room recovery. To me, that is the most important thing as a backup admin. The ability to test my recovery, test my recovery plans, automate it so that it can bring up the applications in the right order and in the right predictable time every single time and without need for having infrastructure spun up. So that is number one. Two is the use of AI to be able to automate some of this capability. And three is the use of AI to make my life as a backup administrator easy. The operational automation, the ability to do root cause analysis and solve those problems. Those were some of the key things in my head as key functionality. Now, also the platinum resiliency that we announced today. That is very critical to a lot of our customers because many of our customers are on a path to the cloud. They have started their journey to the cloud, but cloud is not easy. Trust me, I mean, I'm pretty knowledgeable about cloud, but even I'm nervous. Am I creating cloud with the wrong settings? Am I gonna expose something, right? So with platinum resiliency, what we offer is cloud like simplicity, but we take care of everything. We automate it out the way you want it. So that is very key. And more importantly, bringing this all together using Combo Cloud.  SaaS for SaaS, on-premise for on-premise. That is key. One single policy engine that manages all your data. And as an aging CIO, I'll tell you this, as an ex-CIO, you're always in a transition of something. You were going from mainframe to something. You were going from open systems to something. You were going from VMware to something. You're going from something, private cloud. You're going to cloud. You're always transitioning. You're never static. And when you're transitioning, you don't want point solutions for points in time. Oh, I'm gonna use this for this, but all of this is done this way. And in this, I've got this chunked up by two. Every one of those variations is a point of light the bad actors can exploit. So having, he's very modest, but the way we've designed the architecture, the way we've built this technology, it's built like he showed in his presentation, we've abstracted the control plane from the data plane from the storage layer. And so we can bubble wrap. Every one of those things at a level of resiliency that was not possible. So as you're journeying, you can use the same technology instead of writing to your filer, you're writing to S3 in the cloud, and then tomorrow you want to switch the order, you can do that too. And we're the only ones, probably the only ones who can do that. He's very modest, but he's the only ones that can do that. Yeah, and I thought, again, back to that whole CIO perspective, I think the cloud burst recovery and being able to get back to, I know we hadn't talked about it before, but being able to spin it up like you were saying. On demand. Automatically, I think it's huge because that allows me to preserve capital for when I need it. I pay as I go, which will hopefully encourage people to do it more often and be able to have that minimally viable company. They know they can recover that minimally viable. Absolutely, and these aren't bit parts. We've taken everything we've learned over the past couple of decades under recovery. We've taken metallic and what we've learned is that being the forefront of security and resilience as we've noted, we've taken the fact that software versus SaaS is an artificial divide created by folks that don't have both working the way they should. We've always had that. And then we've separated the layers to make it even more secure by design. And now when you put all of that together in Commvault Cloud, as a customer, you're not on a one-way dead-end street where you can't get out. We will let you make all the U-turns you want, okay? You can make all the U-turns you want because that's how business operates.  You can't build forever and IT sort of thinks about the long-term institutional resilience, but really the business needs you to duck and weave a little bit. And that's what we're bringing to market. No, I think it's excellent. I think, again, being able to be flexible, always being there for the customer and it's the customer's choice. I know that's a big theme around Commvault. I think also you've more or less had a proof of concept of this going with Metallic. And I think there was some really impressive stats that you had with Metallic when you talked us through. Sure, hopefully more than a proof of concept. It's a real product. We've been in the market for about three years. We've had over 4,000 customers. We've crossed 130 million an annual recurring revenue and it has exceeded all our expectations and it's delighted customers because if you look at our net dollar retention rate that we talk about publicly, it's world-class and that doesn't happen by chance that happens by choice. Customers get to choose whether they want to stay with your platform. We are introducing more capabilities on that platform at a rapid pace. We're not governed by releases and installs.  You slipstream it and that stuff just shows up for customers. We're taking the beauty of that, the magic of all that and we've always had the ability of bringing those softwares ass together but now with Commvault Cloud where we've made Metallic the platform, we've hardwired AI right through it all over it. It's not fake, it's not a bolt-on, it's not something that's coming. It's infused, it's available and it powers all of it. So we didn't have to go back to the drawing board. We had it all running and then we put all the security wrappers and isolated the control plane being able to do the things that we want in the data plane, being able to segregate the storage layer and all of that's now available to come up. Yeah, no, I think that is one of the keys that you had it and you've had the technology. Another thing you've had the technology and maybe it just wasn't, the covers weren't pulled back a little bit. To see it's given the light of day is really AI. I mean, you've been using AI in the product for years. Long time. So why don't we, if we don't say AI, they'll kick us off the internet. So we need to delve in a little bit to understand how are you using AI and you're even using, you know, gen AI in the new product as well. Yeah, so there are two types of AI that I would say exist in the product. One is pure machine learning based capabilities. This is purely focused on operational automation. So for example, a backup environment always has some form of failures happening. A lot of events being generated. So a lot of noise. So as a backup administrator, it's very difficult to weed out the noise and actually pay attention to what is happening in your environment. So we use AI for doing machine learning to find those kinds of events that you as humans should pay attention to. The rest can be ignored. The second part that is fairly new is we built a platform on metallic which uses some of the capabilities on Azure Open AI and other AI tools to be able to take a look at everything that we are doing in our environment, whether it is recovery, understand the patterns of recovery or to make the sequence of recovery. It's an example of what we are doing. Or for example, typical failures that happen in a customer's environment. So we've taken that, compared it against all the historic failures and tickets that have happened from all our customers and using that knowledge to generate responses for you so that you can take corrective action without calling a human being. But the most interesting thing that we have done is on the fly walkthroughs. So typically to navigate a product, you read documentation or you go to Pendo and you try to build wizards in Pendo so that when somebody logs into the UI, you do a walkthrough using Pendo. But what we have done here is used AI to actually crawl through every link in our product and automatically generate walkthroughs. So you can just naturally talk to AI and say, hey, how can I do a Salesforce backup? And we'll just automatically walk you through the steps required to do a Salesforce backup. And that I believe is ground breaking. And finally, code assistant, right? That was not easy. I mean, people say, yeah, I can generate code, but trust me, it is not easy to get into generate code. We spent several months teaching the models to learn our APIs. And now we are able to successfully, not only do simple one step task, but nested. Nested steps of APIs. And that is the most complex thing. I want to achieve A, B, C and D and that process I have to call 15 different APIs. Well, the AI code can go through and generate all that for you. Makes it damn easy to integrate with Commodore. Yeah, no, I think one of the loudest collapse came with the API discussion as well, which I think code assistant and getting into that and being able to do those integrations, I think is a great way to kind of bring it home to, you have a lot of partners on stage, on video, very exciting from hyperscalers to security to some of the traditional ones who've been with you, you know, like Dell for quite some time. Tell me about that. And there's so much also part and other partners on the value out of resellers are here and distribution. So what are you hearing from them about this? Well, first off, I'd probably say, collaborating has been in our DNA for a long time. The reason we do what we do is because we support the broadest breadth of where things are coming from and where things are going to. And we don't just pick and choose what we think is cool. You know, some of the stuff we do is what runs mission critical workloads for our customers. It may not be cool, but it's reliable. They need it to work. They need us to be there for them. So the breadth of what we do has always been valued by customers and also where the partner ecosystem. And so when we reached out to them as part of this, the partners that knew us were very happy that we were creating something different and something new and they had this platform to plug into. And then we said with security, it's an ecosystem. Anyone who thinks they can do all of it themselves, that's not true. It's just not true. And so we started reaching out to new partners like the list you saw. And they were quite interested because whether you're shifting left or you're shifting right, you have to work together. And then we didn't just say, okay, let's sign an agreement to be good friends. We made some deep integrations because when customers get a signal from us to the Sim, it matters. If they send us a signal that's really strong, high fidelity signal, it matters. And we need to act on it. And then he can apply his AI based policy engine to say, you can do this or this or this if you see this. And it's real time. So we're scanning and doing threat detection when we're writing data, we're scanning, we're doing threat detection when we're restoring data. So there's this back forth between the ecosystem and ourselves because we don't do some of that. And we don't want customers to have to go engineer that. So what we're hearing from them is exactly what we wanna hear and we wanna support which is it's an ecosystem and let's, you've got your part, I'm not messing with that. What we've got ours, what we do is pretty hard. We solved really hard problems and we've done it for many years. So let's bring it better together. And I think there's a better understanding of that. And our simple approach, at least that's what my partner team knows I believe is partnerships when both sides win and the customer wins. And that's what's important. Yeah, I mean keeping the eye on the customer is always the right thing to do to make a good business to put it mildly. And I think again it was really exciting because I think again, you know, as everybody is all hyped up about AI, really what underpins the AI and is the intellectual property of the companies, these organizations, is their data. So having faith in that data, being able to recover that data so that your AI can actually run or you can train your models is just super kick. And something if you go back and look at our claims and our launches over the years, something I learned when I came in five years ago was we don't make outlandish claims. We don't AI wash or cloud wash or whatever the flavor of the day wash is until we don't have it and it doesn't actually solve a hard problem for our customers, it's noise. It's distracting, okay? It doesn't salt anything. So as much as some of the folks in our industry will go off and make these big announcements, there's nothing there. But what we're telling you, what we showed you was real. You can go outside and go talk to Arli yourself and Arli will do work for you. Okay. I'm planning on that. Yeah, you should. And for us, this is just the start on the journey. There's so much more that because the platform's extensible that partners will tuck into it and we will continue to expand our capabilities using partners. We talked about partnerships with Oracle today. We talked about partnership with Azure today. We talked about a partnership on some of these services with AWS today. We've got deep integrations with Google. We're not doing it because we have a flavor of the month. We're doing it because customers want this. These are the conversations we have with customers. So it's a start. It's a very nice start, but it's a start. You'll see more coming there. Yeah, and I thought again, because it's cyber resilience and you start to look at all the XDR products that are out there and stuff that and the integration with the APIs. I mean, that just gets you to that next level because I think part of it is AI is great, especially when you have limited skill sets and people aren't there and going through and using the AI to help extend your customers so that they can be more productive. Of course, that's cute. Of course, and it has to be natural. I said it about three times today, right? I said it was built in, not bolted on. Whether it's security, it's natural. It has to be built in. Whether it's AI, it has to be built in. If you make it an afterthought, it is an afterthought. And we work with mission critical data. We can't afford to be sloppy on that. It has to be an integral part of what we do. Yeah, no, I think that's a great place to end on. And I really want to thank you for having us here at Commvault Shift. I think this and the announcement of Commvault Cloud powered by Metallic AI, it's fantastic. And like you said, it's just building on top of that same core software, but taking it to the next level where your customers want to be. So thank you. Thank you for being with us. Yeah, and thank you for watching theCUBE. The leader in enterprise tech analysis and news. Stay tuned and we'll be covering Commvault more in the future and appreciate you watching.


Hi, I'm Dee Stevenson. I'd like to share some techniques on how to insert the Acreos lens. This is a mix lens. It goes through a very small incision, a 1.8 millimeter incision. So for me, it was kind of my go-to lens for many, many years because it's easy to inject. It opens quickly. It's again very stable in the eye, has an aspheric optic. I'm just showing you here and I do this on all cases when I video. I'm just so I know what if for some reason I forgot what was in the eye. So what I do is this is a different injector.  And I'm going to pause the video here because I'm going to tell you a couple of things. With this insertor, I have the patient look down and I don't do any counter traction because I really want, I don't want to stretch the wound too much because then you can have leakage. But I have the patient look down and I tell them that there's going to be a little bit of pressure for just a second and that's when I push it. So it's like a syringe and you push it. It's one-handed. It's disposable and the lens has four-point fixation. So it centers very nicely in the bag. This lens is very hard to hurt. It's an acrylic lens. It's very hard to hurt. It goes easily into the bag. I've never torn a haptic off of this lens. I've never had to explant this lens because it's very easy to place into the bag. It's a good beginner lens if you're using a small insertion, I mean incision size. It's a very good easy lens to learn how to use because it does open nicely and it's easy to manipulate in the eye. So I hope you enjoyed that and good luck and I hope you get to use the Acreos.