Good afternoon, Cloud community, and welcome back to fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. We're here midway through day one of Google Cloud Next, and it is just pumping 30,000 attendees this year, but I have two of the most important people at the show sitting with me. My name's Savannah Peterson, you're watching theCUBE. I'm joined by Rebecca Knight. Rebecca, we're just having the best day. We are, and one of the things that is really striking to me, that we talk about all the time on theCUBE, but we're really talking about at this show, Google Cloud Next, is that Gen AI is the new way of doing business. It is part and parcel to the future of work, which is why I'm very excited about our next guest. Yes, me too. Rodney, thank you so much for joining us from McKinsey. Welcome, how are you doing today? I'm doing well, I'm excited to be here. It's your first time at the show as well, too. It's my first time at the show, and first time talking to someone with such amazing earrings. Well, I'll take the flattery. It doesn't always happen on the show, but I like you already, Rodney. We'll let you stay on. When we were just chatting before the show started, I was asking you, it's your first time, you've been leading the digital side of the business for a while. What happened over the course of the last year within McKinsey, within your divisions, that brought you here and brought some departments together? Sure, a little thing you might have heard of called Generative AI. So the way we organize at McKinsey Digital, which used to be sort of a small part of our firm, now it's about half of what we do, we say we do three things. We do transforming businesses through the power of AI. We do digital business building, and then we do core technology modernization. And cloud was always our core technology modernization practice. So we have a group of amazing colleagues who lead that, and they were always here, and this was their meeting. Since late 2022, those distinctions have been pretty meaningless. And the most important topic in modernization has been actually how do you apply Gen AI to it? And my colleagues, Leandro Santos and Aaron Balcom led a fabulous session earlier today on how to use Gen AI for application modernization. We were excited to see it, I think be the best attended, or best signed up session of the conference. And it really just shows how these worlds are coming together. So it's exciting to be here. That is exciting. And I've got a book to promote as well. Well that's just where I was going. That was the segue I was looking for. You brought a prop, you brought a brand new book that you have co-authored called Rewired. Congratulations, a book is a big deal and a lot of work. Can you tell our viewers a little bit about why you wrote it? Thank you. So nearly 30 years in consulting, especially the second book I've written, almost nobody read the first one. And on this one, we go very, very lucky with the timing. I mean, having a book come out that has AI and McKinsey guide in the title, timed with the Gen AI wave, we were just incredibly, incredibly lucky. How long have you been working on it then? So we've been working on it. So the story goes back about four or so years, right? So we've been working on sort of digital transformation topics with our clients, probably for nine, maybe 10 years, others have too. And what we realized about four or five years ago, we did sort of a retrospective.  Where is this working? Where isn't it? And our math was, this was sort of pre-COVID, 90% of, 91% of companies have something called the digital transformation. And I'm surprised it wasn't 100%, but maybe that's the one that I'm talking to me. But if you then say, okay, who's making money on it? About 25% of them only are hitting their cost objectives and about 30% are hitting their revenue objectives. So I look, something isn't working. We'd like to actually take 200 of the examples that work and let's develop the playbook. So we did that and initially it was a playbook just for our own consulting team. So we used it internally for a couple of years. But after having sort of a lot of success with it internally, some colleagues then sort of convinced me actually to say, look, let's actually go external with this and let's publish it as a book, which we did. And of course we then got very lucky with the Gen AI timing in there. And the book, I would say captures the beginning of the Gen AI wave, obviously it's moving incredibly quickly. But we actually think it makes, Gen AI makes it even more relevant because the amazing thing about Gen AI is it's the world's easiest technology to pilot. But it's quite hard to get enterprise value at scale from it. So there's a bit of a risk and we've seen many companies last year go back a bit to sort of 2015 in digital where it's like death by a thousand pilots. Everyone wants to do something cool, wants to show it off externally. But you're seeing impact everywhere except in the actual P&L. So this is supposed to be the guide to how do you actually get it really into the P&L. So what's the answer to that? I was just going to say, yeah. Because you're absolutely right. We always hear about executives coming on while we need it, a POC. This is what we really wanted. And that's understandable because you want to see how is this going to work? What is this really going to do? But then having a zillion pilots, that's not going to work either. So what are the attributes that you look for to know, okay, this is a pilot that could really show us something. You want me to tell you the answer without paying $40 for the book?  I was going to put that in one of the comments. It's coming out of the kids. Now, now, now, now, it's about value. It's a high quality service is what I was like. High level, high level. So not high level, high quality. I like that better. So what's the answer? The six pieces to the answer. So I'll walk through them. So take a minute or two. So it actually starts at the top with business led technology roadmap, right? And that might not be a popular thing to say here with 30,000 technologists, but you actually need a real financial target and you need business and technology working together. The most common failure mode was a CEO says we're going to go do AI. And then every part of the organization goes off and does their own thing and you get this like, not even so just like death by a thousand pilots, right? The thousand pilots blooming thing. You actually need a senior team to align and to say, well actually there's many things we can do, but we're going to pick one big area of the business, one domain, and we're going to drive like an end to end transformation in that domain rather than sprinkling it everywhere. And we're going to put a financial target against it. And what we found in the research was you set a financial target of 15 to 20% of EBITDA. Your chance of hitting at least 80% of that financial goal is higher than if you set a target of two or three percent of EBITDA. So big targets lead to much higher percentage chance of attainment. Because this is hard. You've got to get people to work together. You've got to sustain investments. You've got to work cross-functionally and so on. Anyway, that's chapter one. I'll go quicker on the other chapter. Number two is about people. And one of the most fun findings in the research was the companies that went out and hired all the cool kids, all the technology natives, and the Silicon Valley, London, whatever, that's a really great way to change your company dress code. It's not a great way to drive sustained business impact. So it's much more actually about upskilling and reskilling. And the companies that are in that money-making quadrant are investing hard in upskilling and reskilling the senior team and the front line. Third thing then is about operating model. And I wish I had another word than agile, like, because agile is such a cliche. Like somebody told me. I've never heard that word before. You've never heard it. The agile manifesto would have been old enough to graduate from college this year, I think. No, is that true? Oh, God. Thank you for dating all of us.  Okay, okay. But that is still the secret. And in fact, what we found is, it's not only, every company says they're doing agile. What that often means is a tech team is working in agile, right? It's the business and the tech team working together. But importantly and importantly in regulated industries, the control functions, right? You need legal, you need regulatory, you need quality, whatever it is. If they're not in the agile parts, you got nothing. So fourth is technology. Technology of course is in the list, right? But it's never just tech. And what we found is companies can succeed by doing a massive horizontal cloud migration, create amazing perfect data lakes. That's long, slow and expensive. Much better to start with the business problem and to do the focused technology modernization in that area. Fifth is data. And in data we saw two common problems. Number one is most companies overestimate the value of their own data. And the reality is it's your data plus the world's data coming together, right? That creates really the unique value. And then the other thing is data governance, right? Which is sort of like a boring topic. And people think like- But critical right now. Absolutely. Absolutely. And every company thinks they're always like one AI use case away from Nirvana. And you never are, right? Our research shows like 10 or 11 different ones before you can actually see impact in the P&L. But if you've not done the hard work on data governance, those become more and more expensive instead of cheaper and cheaper as you go. And then the last one, sorry, I know you're looking at me. This is great. Now I'm literally taking notes. So be very clear that's what's going on. As long as the notes don't stop you can get into the book. Yeah, no, I'm still at the book. Don't worry. I understand the high quality of the value. So the last one then is adoption and scaling. And some of these are sort of the traditional change management levers around a consistent change story from the CEO. You've got to involve the front line. You need role modeling. But actually it's about incentives, right? So the number of companies where someone will say what's going on with the AI initiative and they'll turn and look at the CIO or the CDIO. Whereas instead they should be looking at the business leader also. And the two of them together should have a joint incentive. So that simple thing of aligning the incentives between business and tech makes an enormous difference on adoption and scaling. So there you go. That was 400 words and 400 pages in four minutes. Very well done. And you might have thought so cool. No, and it's really terrific. What I'm hearing so much of is that it really is a change management ideas that have to go into it. I mean, it's so much about getting the people on board, getting them aligned, getting them incentivized, getting them motivated toward working towards something. Can you talk a little bit more about the strategy of hiring the coolest kids who graduated with these nerd degrees versus re-skilling the current workforce? Because I think that particularly at this time where some people who might be skeptical about Gen AI and what it might do for their careers and their jobs. Can you talk a little bit about this idea of re-skilling and what you've learned from it? Yeah, so I was in a meeting a few weeks ago with the leadership team of a company and with one of the big generative AI players. And everyone was sort of swapping notes on the amazing things that Gen AI could do and how much impact it was going to have. And as we were having the back and forth, someone came up with sort of the clever thought that like the early winners from Gen AI are going to be dogs. They're going to be the biggest beneficiaries. Why dogs? Because if Gen AI is saving you 20 minutes a day, what are you going to do? You go home and walk the dog. I love that it goes to dogs and not to kids or family. It was a tough crowd, I would say. I assume they're already being looked after and the dog is the marginal choice. Yes, okay. So that's nice, right? That's wonderful for pet health, right? But like, how does that actually turn into improved corporate performance? You actually need your employees to say not just how do I take the most boring 20 minutes of my day and automate it, but how do I change a week in the life of? And we actually see this really prominently. I think there's an early use case in software development. If you just give people the tools, right? And the tools are amazing and say go use it, right? You see these like 10, 20% productivity improvements and I'm sure there's lots of happy dogs at the other end of it. But if instead you say, let's take a week in the life of, right? Let's think about everything, not just using it for whatever part is most difficult for you. Let's think about the whole system that needs to go around, not just developing the code, but the testing, the commenting, the understanding the business rules that you're trying to code against and so on. Let's think about the whole business system. That's where you start to see the 40, 50, 60% improvements which you can see in the PNL. So it's the structured process of taking your employees through that. Both your frontline employees who are using it in a hands-on way, but also the leadership team who need to know how to get value from it. And like a couple of years ago, it was trendy to like go take senior leaders and put them on an MIT course and go have them learn to code and so on. That can be like fun for awareness, but that's not the same as actually understanding the business potential of what you're doing. But also going back to the dog walking example, that is real.  Right. That's what you're doing. Inside joke there. But the point being that that is a time where you can have a break away and that's when you get your big ideas or even your small ideas that can add up to something. It's interesting because early on, people looked at this technology as a productivity tool. It's about automation, simplification, da-da-da. The two big surprises, number one is exactly where you are going, a creativity tool. So first of all, how well the models and in particular the newer generation of the models can do on being truly creative, right? And purists will say, oh, it's not real creativity, it's mimicking creativity, da-da-da. It mimics it body well, right? It sure does, but it's only getting better. Exactly, so it's a creativity tool. But also when you take away some of the drudgery, how much time and freedom you actually have to be more creative is amazing. So we're seeing huge benefits in creativity. The other thing as well is we're seeing the conversation move from it being about productivity to it being about growth, right? And there's this one study from the UK last summer, right? That really, I think, opened up lots of people's eyes on growth. And this was a group of academics who wanted to see if patients could tell the difference between, were they talking to a doctor who was texting them, or were they talking to one of the chatbots, right? So the patient was assigned to one group of the other, they ran it, da-da-da-da, and they asked the patients, you know, which one did you have? And to their disappointment, most patients could tell the difference, right? Even pretty elderly patients, 70% of the time. They're like, okay, Turing test fail, that's not interesting. But then they said, okay, but which one did you prefer, right? The patients overwhelmingly preferred the chatbot, right? They thought it was more informative, right, to be knew more than the doctors, but also they thought it was more empathetic, right? They listened to them better, right? So it's easy to like, you turn this into a joke about British doctors or something, and my brother is one, so let's just watch this. But it's really about the power of these things for building human connection. And it's done with integrity, therefore, how well that can help develop customer and stakeholder relationships, and be a tool that's about growth and sales growth, not just about productivity. I think that's, I love that point. And the notion, I mean, doctors are humans too. It's not, anyone can have a bad day. You know, anyone can have something going on in their external life.  And I do, that's such a, I want to just hold on that anecdote for a second, that the notion of bots being more empathetic than us is not something that we normally think about. Given that we've just talked about a lot of the good use cases, I got to ask you, do you think Gen AI is over-hyped at all? Yes, I mean, you don't get 30,000 people in Las Vegas without some degree of hype, right? But, you know, I was in a client's board meeting late last year, and I was sort of waxing lyrical about how Gen AI was going to change the world. And a board member sort of interrupted me and he said, you know, will you take a bet with me that Gen AI is going to be worth more next year than my NFT portfolio is worth this year, right? You're like, you know, that's a good question, right? But I actually would take that bet, right? And I think you've got to view it. I'm not sure three years from now we're going to be talking about Gen AI, right? It'll be yet another flavor of AI. So if you take this as the 50-year journey of AI, right? And not the 15-month journey of Gen AI, right? I think it's very, very real. And I think what it does is, you know, it's the Swiss Army knife of AI, right? This is the moment that makes it available for almost everybody in a democratized, lower cost, easier to learn way. Of course, with all kinds of risks and complexities that need to be managed. But we're going to look back on this as a real sort of kink in the curve in AI. But at the end of the day, it is still AI and it's the broader AI story that's important. Tomorrow you're going to be on a panel here with the CEO of ING. Can you give our viewers a little preview of what you're going to be talking about? Yes, so it's Peter Jacobs is the CEO of ING Netherlands. And this is a, so we talk about the foresees of where we're seeing Gen AI being applied, right? It's about customer engagement. It's about concisions of virtual experts. It's about coding and it's about creative content. And with Peter, we're going to be talking about the first of those, the customer engagement. And ING as many banks, all banks probably have had a chatbot that's been pretty effective for a long time. And what they wanted to do was to try and harness this new technology essentially to create a better, more engaging front end for their customers. And yes, there's a productivity aspect to it, but also it's back to where we were a moment ago with the doctors. It's actually how do you make it more engaging? And the success that they've had in using this to really drive customer engagement and customer satisfaction. And to do that in obviously a highly regulated, highly sensitive, highly important market, and in a culture that is used to innovation, but also has incredibly high standards. I mean, I wouldn't tell his story for him, let him tell it, but it's an exciting one to be on stage with him talking about. Excellent. Yeah, what a great customer example and exciting, the whole show is a lot about customer examples. I'm curious, we were mentioning, and we were chatting about your daughter earlier and without incriminating her Rubik's Cube skills, shout out to your daughter, by the way, hello. What is your daughter and her friends talking about in terms of gen AI? Are they, is it a conversation for them? That's funny. So yes, our daughter is our youngest, all the two are already in college. And it's funny, actually I'll talk about all three of them. So our oldest is about to start a PhD, which in neuroscience, I was a PhD scientist years ago. I was going to say like father like daughter on that one. And he, the amount of data, the extent to which biology labs right now look like computer science labs, it's just amazing. I mean, he got more data in a summer internship than I did in the three years of my PhDs, just been transformed, right? That's wild too. Our middle one is a polypsi, which she tells me that is a real science. I studied political science. I did as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. So we've got her back, we've got her back on this newsstand. Clearly both political scientists still have. So, I mean, the role that this is playing, right, in the ability to summarize and ingest like enormous amounts of information and just to really change how the policy field gets done, how the policy process gets done.  I saw Politico this morning, they're now sending out like AI-generated summaries and so on. Like if it's reaching like that part of the world, like it's going everywhere. Oh, it's big controlism, yeah, yeah. And then our daughter's the real engineer, right? So she's in high school and is very into robotics and so on. And, you know, they have a team that competes in these robotics competitions and the extent to which they've already adopted GNAI to like how they compete and win in these like high school robot competitions. It's unbelievable. And, you know, what I'm told I don't have independent verification on the statistic but I'm told is this year is the record year for dropouts from computer science in like elite university programs. Because people are looking at it and saying, huh, why do I need to learn the drudgery of coding? So we think that's overstated, right? We actually think, you know, that elite coders will have superpowers. There'll still be a need for them. But the shift away from routine coding and into really sort of systems engineering and systems thinking and then into like the human aspects that have to go around that, right? Into how you actually lead and build a team and influence people and so on. That's clearly the wave of the future. And we didn't even mention solving a Rubik's cube on water skis. We didn't, you know, I was holding skis. Well, I think it's really cool and I think it's interesting too because I mean, I even wonder, you know, we talk about GNAI or AI. I wonder if to your family, for example, it's just a tool. It's not even, you know, delineated as artificial intelligence. They're just, oh, I'm using Gemini. Oh, I'm using this product and I'm going to go build this robot, which is rad. Yeah. Cash things, yeah, wow. You've been at McKinsey for almost 30 years. Yeah, I prefer to say 29, but yes. That is impressive. 29 forever.  Is this hype cycle different, faster, more exciting or comparable to some of the other technological hype cycles you've experienced in your wonderful career there? So if you say like, this time it's different, right?    Keep me diamond-baited. I genuinely want your insight on that. I genuinely want your insight. But I do, right? So I think the way we're increasingly talking about this is this is the fourth platform revolution, right? So, you know, what does technology do in economic terms, right? It lowers the cost of something, right? The first was just in compute, right? Just lowering the cost of doing calculations, right? You don't need, you know, those women who are the computers in hidden figures, right? You don't need that anymore, right? When IBM and others transformed basic computing technology, right? Then there was the internet, right? And that transformed, that took down to almost zero, the cost of distribution, right? You could get your ideas, your offer anywhere, right? And then, you know, Amazon and others and many others sort of transformed that. And Google of course, like, who would have thought that actually searching the internet would be the most lucrative application that you'd find on the internet, right? Then there's the third platform revolution. That was around mobile, right? That was lowering the cost, really, of access, right? Just the fact that you could have this incredibly high compute, how, really, I guess, mobile and cloud together, right? Mobile and cloud together really gave, you know, almost down to zero access to high performance computers. And this fourth one, right? This is lowering the cost of human knowledge and ingenuity and creativity, right?  So that's a revolution, right? I mean, there have been other revolutions before, but this feels, and certainly for white collar work, right, this feels as transformative or more transformative than any of those that came before. Very well stated. And we'll summarize the last question for you, Rodney. And, well, you've said a lot of exciting things, so I don't know that you can just pick one. When we have you back on the show next Google Cloud Next, what do you hope to be able to say then that you can't yet say beyond the fact that your Gen.A.I. portfolio is worth more than your NFT portfolio? And that he's a best-selling entrepreneur. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Exactly. Worldwide, yeah. So, I would like the dog still to be healthy and happy and walled, but I would like to see many more companies and organizations who can point to real transformational business and back to their P&L. And I was seeing the early wave of that, but I think this is the year of Show Me the Money for impact from Gen.A.I. Show Me the Money, Show Me the Real, and get there by reading, rewired. Thank you so much for being on the show with us, Rodney. This has been absolutely fabulous. I hope everyone picks up a copy. Rebecca, always a pleasure. This was a fun one.  So, thank you so much, and thank all of you for tuning in to day one of three here at Google Cloud Next in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. My name's Savannah Peterson, you're watching theCUBE, the leading source for enterprise tech news.


Wonderful. So what I'm going to give you a brief overview today is to kind of go backwards a bit because you've already heard about the proposed changes to the English law. Well I want to go back and tell you what the English law actually is at the moment and the difficulties that we have had leading to the need for the law commission to consider it for reform. So the regulation of surrogacy in England has largely emerged in a really kind of piecemeal fashion as a series of responses to individual cases coming before the courts. So in 1985 the United Kingdom was one of the first jurisdictions in the world to actually pass legislation on surrogacy when it responded to the publicity concerning a high-profile surrogacy by a woman called Kim Cotton. So Kim Cotton had been paid £6,500 to carry a surrogate child and a further £20,000 to sell her story to the tabloid press. And it was this resulting public outcry and this fear of a baby's-for-cash kind of industry which led to the government taking really swift legislative action. So at the time of this birth the government was still debating the recommendations of what was known as the Warnock Committee which in 1984 had taken a really antipathetic view of surrogacy. So this commission was established in 1982 by the government to look into the technologies of IVF and embryology which were just at that time emerging. And the committee recommended they said that any kind of attempt to legislate on surrogacy is only going to encourage people to use it. So instead what they did was they recommended that the legislation simply prohibit the recruitment of women for surrogacy and render criminal the operation of agencies for such purposes. So following the Cotton case the government ceased its deliberations and expeditiously passed what was known as the surrogacy arrangements Act 1985 in line with the Warnock Committee's recommendations. So there are two really important provisions in here which are still enforced to this day. Section 1A of the Act providing that the surrogacy arrangements are not enforceable either by or against the parties within them. Secondly it criminalizes anyone initiating, offering, agreeing or taking part in negotiations on a commercial basis with a view to making a surrogacy arrangement. And this is really important particularly for the lawyers because this means that you cannot help facilitate a surrogacy arrangement and charge for it. So these were the provisions that were passed in 1985 and it actually wasn't until five years later in 1990 that the government came back to look further at the implications of these advances in technologies and this was done under the Human Fertilization and Embryology Bill which led to the 1990 Act of that name and this is the 2000 updated Act. So the 1990 Act originally didn't have any kind of status provisions for surrogacy in it. It didn't have any kind of way to recognize parenthood arising out of surrogacy or indeed to transfer parenthood from a surrogate to a legal, to a commissioning parent. And it wasn't until the very last stages of this bill going through Parliament that an MP actually raised this because he'd been lobbied by some of his constituents who were distressed at the fact that they were having to adopt what they saw as their own child because there was no other form of recognition and so what the government did was very quickly and hastily drafted to add what was known as and what is not as a parental order. Now this is the mechanism under English law by which we can transfer parenthood from the surrogate who is in all cases legal parent upon birth to the commissioning parents. So in order to do so section 54 of the 2008 Act which is the Act now enforced sets out a number of requirements. These are as I said ex-post fact done. This is why we describe England and Wales as a tolerant approach because it tolerates surrogacy. It doesn't regulate its use per se. It regulates the consequences of surrogacy for the law of parental order and these conditions are run through them quite quickly. You'll see on the website with the resources that I put a handout which has references to all the legislation or the government committee reports and also all the cases that I refer to in this presentation. So the first criteria that there's a genetic relationship between the commissioning parents and the child. Interestingly though there's no requirement for infertility to have use of surrogacy. The commissioning parents have to either be married civil partners or in an enduring family relationship so parental orders were restricted only to couples and it was only very recently that this was challenged before the courts and now has been opened up to single applicants also in Section 54A of the Act. The application must be made within six months of birth. The child must be living with the commissioning parents. The commissioning parents must be domiciled in the United Kingdom over 18 and then we get to the really important consent provisions. So the surrogate mother as Nick was saying this morning and any other man who was a woman recognised as a legal parent must give their consent to the making of the parental order. In England where there is no ability currently for the court to dispense with that consent and transfer legal parenthood without it. There is an exception if the parent cannot be found or is incapable of giving consent but obviously this is a more difficult burden hurdle to pass and I'll come back to that. The consent must be given more than six weeks after birth. This is in line with adoption legislation to give the mother time to physically, emotionally and psychologically recover from birth and then finally and perhaps most importantly for the English jurisprudence unless authorised by the court no money other than expenses reasonably incurred can be given in relation to the surrogacy arrangement handing over the child or consenting to the parental order. So this is our legislative framework. What I want to do for the rest of the talk is tell you how our judiciary has ripped it apart quite rightly as it were. So the first English case to deal with an overseas commercial surrogacy arrangement was known as re-X and Y foreign surrogacy in 2008. So in this case it was an English couple going to the Ukraine and they paid a Ukrainian surrogate approximately 235 euros per month as well as a lump sum of 25,000 euros for a live birth. Now as we can see there is no way that this could be conceptualised as reasonable expenses given the average wage in Ukraine. So the question before the court was would they nevertheless recognise the parenthood of this couple by making a parental order and in deciding whether to authorise these payments Mr Justice Headley set up three questions that the court should ask themselves. First was the sum paid disproportionate to reasonable expenses with the applicants acting in good faith and without moral taint in their dealings with the surrogate and were the applicants partied in any attempt to defraud the authorities. Now in answering these questions the court reminded itself that in deciding whether to authorise the payments and make this parental order the best interest of the child at that stage had to be a primary consideration. And Mr Justice Headley gave a really good speech which I'd like to read out in a bit more detail because I think it really sums up the difficulties faced by the courts in a situation where the child was inborn and the question is whether to recognise the reality of their situation. So he said I feel bound to observe that I found this process of authorisation most uncomfortable. What the court is required to do is to balance two competing and potentially irreconcilably conflicting concepts. Parliament is clearly entitled to legislate against commercial surrogacy and is clearly entitled to expect that the court should implement that policy consideration in its decisions. Yet it is also recognised that as the full rigour of that policy consideration will bear on one wholly unequipped to comprehend it, let alone deal with its consequences that is the child concerned. That rigour must be mitigated by the application of a consideration of the child's welfare. That approach is both humane and intellectually coherent. The difficulty is, he said, that it is almost impossible to imagine a set of circumstances in which by the time the case comes to court, the welfare of any child, particularly a foreign child, would not be gravely compromised at the very least by a refusal to make the order. And this in one paragraph sums up the problem with ex post facto regulation of surrogacy. And this has really set the tone for the cases that have followed. All of which acknowledge to a lesser or greater extent the near futility of this so-called balancing exercise, which judges are being asked to engage in. This approach has been actually strengthened by a change in the legislation in 2010, which promoted the child's welfare from being a primary consideration to the paramount consideration. What this means is that while the elevation of the child's welfare to paramount is in fact laudable, it's undermined the ability of the courts to refuse a parental order. So in effect, there is really no balance that can be achieved. And we've seen this in the cases that followed concerning reasonable expenses. We've seen sons of over 50,000 US dollars approved in California, routinely some 3,000 in India, 9,000 in Russia. And today, as far as I can tell from my survey of the case law, no case has been refused on the grounds of payments. Having said this, we can also see that in the text of the legislation, it does say no payments can be made unless authorized by the court. So the court does have some power there. On the other hand, if we look at the six month time limit, but the application must be made within six months. This is pretty clear statutory language. There's not really much room for interpretation or so you would think. Nevertheless, we have seen the courts have in fact extended this provision, this, this deadline. So James Mumby, who is in the room in a wonderful decision called reX, said that the court is not only entitled to extend this time limit, but is in fact bound to adopt a more liberal and relaxed approach to the interpretation of the time limit. Because this is the only human way to protect the rights of the child. So he said that a parental order doesn't just go to the status of the child, it goes to that their identity as a human being and its impact will extend far into the future. He said the court is not just concerned with the impact on the applicant whose default it is in meeting the time limit, but also the impact on the innocent child whose welfare must be the court's paramount concern. Now, at the time, it was emphasised that the decision was based on the particular facts and did not mean that we could just ignore the six month time limit whenever we wanted. Wise words, but unfortunately, this has been the case. And we've seen a case in which a 13 year old boy was the subject of a parental order. So we can see that despite the statutory language, the six month time limit has pretty much gone out the window. The second issue I want to draw your attention to is this issue of consent. As I said, this is one of the defining features of the English system, the surrogate must give her consent to the parental order. And where this is not forthcoming, then the courts, of course, have not made the order. Instead, they've dealt with the issue on by recognising the difference under English law between legal parenthood and who has care of the child. So instead of transferring the parenthood may simply recognise that legal parenthood lies with the surrogate mother. But the commissioning parents are responsible for the day to day care of the child. However, we have seen the courts willing to be more relaxed in their interpretation of the circumstances in which the parent cannot be found or is incapable of giving consent. And this once again, has been a matter of necessity. So there was an interesting case of redee a child where the court was faced with the question of the identity of the legal father. It was unclear whether the Georgian surrogate mother was married at the time of the child's birth. So it was unclear whether the legal father was her husband, or could in fact be the commissioning father who had given his genetic material. When the court tried to contact her at the address given by the surrogacy agency, although three women at that address claimed to be that person, or to answer to that name, none of them admitted giving birth to this child. And this raises the extreme difficulty that we have in dealing with international arrangements. And this is one of the reasons why it's so important the law commission is trying to bring people within the domestic system so that there can be some exercise of control. Because what we've seen again and again, that if commissioning parents go outside the system, go to an international destination and come back and present the courts with a fader complete, then the courts have no choice but to recognise a parent arising from that. Similarly, we saw a case called redee and L where the court tried to surrogate contact the surrogate mother because she had given her consent to the parental order before that six week time limit I mentioned. So the commissioning parents employed an inquiry agent to try and contact the mother that this was unsuccessful. The address that had been given was that of the agent rather than the mother. So they couldn't find her again. The court tried the surrogacy clinic when asked for its assistance, sent back a fax, a single piece of paper printed with in the words of the court and obscene gesture. And so as such, the court admitted that all the documents or the evidence submitted by the clinic have to be treated with caution. And so again, this shows the difficulty that the court is going to have in verifying the information, verifying the way that the surrogacy has been carried out in another jurisdiction. So what can we take from all this? This has been a rather whistle stopped tour through the English legislation. And I'm happy to answer further questions about the details at a later stage. But what we can see is the courts have played somewhat fast and loose with a statutory requirements for surrogacy. But we also have to accept that they have had little choice in the matter. When they're presented with a child who is living with the commissioning parents, who will be his or her parents for all intents and purposes, there is little if any scope for the courts to refuse an order. And as we were saying in the last session, there should be little or no scope for the courts to refuse an order because we are dealing with a child and we were dealing with the child's rights. The imperative to make the child's best interest, the paramount consideration, prevents the court from doing anything but making an order that reflects their current status. And this of course, has been emphasised also by the European Court of Human Rights in the seminal case of the menacing family. So what we can see is that English law has, at this point, reached an untenable position where the principles that we set out in the legislation have had to give way to the practicalities and the reality of the global surrogacy industry. All I can say is that until we reform our legislation, we're going to continue to have commissioning parents who will circumvent any and indeed all domestic law in their desire to become parents. This desire to form a family is stronger than the barriers currently put in place by the British legislation. And it is absolutely imperative that we do reform. Thank you.


You know what, I'm throwing it anyway. No, don't kill me please! Regret! Take one of these, would ya? The hope of everybody in the earth, the spirit bomb! You wouldn't. You wouldn't dare. Don't do it! No, no, no, no, no, no, no! No! How's he going, everybody? Dodging away here back with some more Dragon Ball Fighters, Rape Matches. This time playing a team full of all Goku's, including Goku GT, Super Saiyan Goku, and Super Saiyan Blue Goku. It kinda feels weird that GT Goku is almost sort of slept on nowadays. Don't get me wrong, people still think he's good. But, man, this character used to be on the top of the game indisputably. Another Goku, oh, that was so safe! I actually didn't expect that to hit. Oh, I trusted that assist. All right, so I'm zero for two. I thought something didn't hit, and I thought something would hit. I was wrong on both occasions. GT Goku in the corner, I'm outta there! That does not launch you forward. I did the EX version, which tracks. GT Goku, man, I talked him up, but I need to get him outta here now. Oh, please! No, it was a little obvious, but I thought I had still had the time. Instead, we're going to get, oh, that was nice! Defense! I shouldn't have talked about it.  Ha ha, that is not something I should continue to do. Is Super Saiyan Goku out already? He might already be gone. Level one, level three. I think that should still kill. I just wasn't expecting, I thought he would go for three level ones. Does this kill? I'm sparking then. Let's go! You thought it was over. I was too nervous. I definitely got too nervous. I was like, do I jump away here? A bar into the sea assist. You gotta watch out for those sea beam assists. That's going to be enough. All right, we should have definitely made a move earlier there. I just clamped up, didn't wanna get hit again. Ended up being the cause of me getting it. Jump again. Ooh, let's go, all right. It's a different time now. It's Goku GT o'clock. All right, we got him in the corner. 2H that, let's go. Why did I think that would work? You know what, fine. I messed up the combo route. I might as well hit him with the Super Saiyan 4. All right. You know, that was actually the reason I threw away Super Saiyan Goku. Yeah, definitely just wanted the Super Saiyan 4. Is he gonna back dash? Ooh, I'll take that. You gotta block GT Goku. Gets the character down. Mainly I'm worried about not having the sparking benefit now. Get off me. Ooh, 2H that, that was so good. Corner, we gotta get him to the corner. Oh, he got away. Okay, no, what a whole vanish. I'm gonna do it twice. Yes, doing it twice always works. Oh, way too early. Hold on, let me talk to him. Oh, we are moving now. All right, love to see it. He is really trying to get EX Gale Claws. He might be panicking or he's fishing for something. Either to work. I block that, reflect that. Don't let him in. I dash, oh, what a kick. There was no back dashing that. There was no way out. All right, now we've brought it to a 1v1 situation. Gohan is level one, so he has powered up at least once. All good things to keep in mind. He's gonna Super Dash here. No, he doesn't. What should we do? Should we level five for the flex? No, I'm just gonna level three. I'm just gonna level three. That's where we get to keep corner. They would have been so bad if I level five. I thought about it. Not too excited and accidentally did a second jumping at me. No, we had the game. He's gonna Super Dash, he's panicking. I panicked, I panicked. It's still not over. It's still not over. I think we have to block, we have to block. Actually, does he get anything off this? No, right? I'm panicking, I'm panicking. Behind over here, over, I'm dead. I'm dead. I have to tech. Back dash, why'd I do it again?  Back dash, I did it. Give me that. Back dash, I did it three times, come here. Super, this, let's go, Dragon Ball Instant Transmission. And I wasn't even scared. I was a little bit scared. We're being honest, I was more than a little bit scared. But that was a great first game. Lot of mistakes though, obviously really early. A ton of, that's where a ton of the mistakes were. But if we can clean that up, I'm feeling pretty good. Why am I bad at the game? All right, I'll take that. I'll take that. Why did I do the wrong super? All right, it's fine. I'm really shaking off a lot of GT Goku rust here. Ooh, nice. Two H that, no moves allowed. No moves allowed. Can I speak to Gohan again? Gohan, get back out here. Aw, he won that, that was sick though. The legs and the flash fists, don't trade. All right, I'm gonna up tech here. I'm out. That's what I wanted to do that one time where I did the EX version instead. Oh, that doesn't work. Defense turns into good offense real quick. GT Goku, he's too small. I just, I was born ducking that move. Oh man, I should have punched that. He's going behind the back for sure. Oh, I tried mashing, I was a bit too late. Ooh, I had the read on that though. All right, I had the read on that. Do I spark here? I'm feeling like a sparking. Two H that, back up, let's go. You know what, I might as well level three. I'm feeling, I'm feeling myself. GT Goku, I kind of like this level three a lot. Even compared to the Super Saiyan 4, I like that a lot. Oh, I read that wrong. We lived, I might as well spark. I might as well flex. All right, we're out. Ooh, nice jump.  Oh, they'll just have to vanish then. Stop me with the crouching light. That was sick. The dive kick also hits. All right, we are still in a good spot to win this. I've just been trying to, I keep, see that. I thought he would tech right away that time. That was my bad. GT Goku back on the case again, once again. Love doing that. Why do I keep reflecting nothing? Kick this man in the face. That was sick. Stop, I gotta stop reflecting. It's just not, it's just not to look for me today. Uh-uh, uh-uh, uh-uh. He sets, that was nice. All right, he got away. This is where the double beam strata, just one beam's enough, never mind. I thought I would have to whip out the old double beam strata. I'll take it though. I am representing GT until GT gets here. Uh-oh, I didn't, I was doing a better job representing them until I took that title. You know what? We'll wait until GT gets here next time. Dude, the all GT team is going to hit. Air to air. Why, who just hit a button? Ah, you did it, it was Super Dash. Fair enough. Let's see level three here. We're not anywhere close to a corner. I don't think so. I don't think he does. No, he doesn't take it. Oh, even if he blocked that, it was not a good look for him. Why do I keep thinking he won't? I keep throwing a single key blast and regretting it almost instantly. Avoid it. I gotta stop. All right, he'll Super Dash again. That was smooth. Okay, I gotta give it up. I gotta give it up. That was smooth. That was real smooth. All right, I gotta finish the game. I might lose. Really? Open up. There we go. There we go. That's how I didn't throw the key blast. There we go. A good ending to our first match. A stressful one, honestly, especially at the end there. But great game to that opponent and hopefully GT Yoku can do just as much in the next couple of rounds. Okay, we are back and this time we are up against an ultra-instinct reg opponent. So the points on the line have been quadrupled or tripled. I don't know how exactly how many more points are on the line, but they're definitely there. Let me get a quick stretch. All right, work out the kinks. All right, I'm ready. I am ready to fight. Also, they have a Goku GT so this is going to work out perfectly. Ooh, love to see it. A great opener for the boy. And I'm just gonna snap. Remember when snap was busted? I just thought back to that time, man. I am glad we don't live in that time anymore. That was a wild time. Up tech, love to see it. Come here. Oh, bad two-h. That was a huge punish. Okay, okay, I felt like I was in good control there, but I definitely let it slip a little bit. Tech that. Ooh, that was a really late tech though. Another two early two-h. All right, raw tag. God damn, I definitely didn't think that would clash with it, but that still looks really cool. Defending myself with a Kamehameha. Oh, okay. I was like, wait, why would he? That makes sense. It shoots up, base Vegeta. What a long fall. My neck. See, the reason I couldn't defend that was because the fall was so high that I was stunned. You know, there was actually, wow, that was sick. All right, I'm gonna spark here. That was really sick. I thought he was going to be able to get his assist up in time. I don't know how I, that would have been really, can you do that? How have I never seen that before? He thought I was gonna dragon rush? What do I look like, a smart player? My IQ is literally in the double digits. Ah, does this kill? No, it's not gonna kill. Triple beam. I can't even tell which beams were hitting him. Still worked out though. The triple Goku DHC special. The beam still helped me out. Oh, that was a read. No, I couldn't get him to block it. I was really trying to just clip him with that. Even a hit would have been fine. At least I could have gotten something off that. Vegeta instead going to toss me back to the corner. What does he get off that? Oh, you know I got a mash there. You knew I had to. I couldn't, I couldn't hit both of them hard enough. I should have gone with Super Saiyan Goku. Does that kill? Didn't kill. It didn't kill. Always do it twice. Oh, he didn't do anything. That was even scarier. Oh, Spirit Sword, I forgot about it. Oh, back off me. Throw in another beam. Take another Kamehameha. Man, I'm just not real easy. How many Kamehamehas have been fired? I am doing nothing but throwing Kamehamehas. There's so many dragon balls. He only needs one auto combo with seven bars. Let me talk to him. Let me talk to this man. Combos. Why am I bad at the game? It doesn't matter. We finally hit a 2H. We finally got what it was to kill. All right, that was a great game. Hold on, that was really intense. I am feeling it now. Yeah, Goku, phew. All right, all right, 8,000 points. So many points. That was a great game. Goku GT did a lot. Ah, I should have expected a different start that time. Locked that. 2H that. Cover up my errors. Oh, you're not going anywhere. Super Dash, I'll stop those. All right, we're gonna EX in. Oh, it didn't hit him. Dragon Rush, I'm looking for it. No Dragon Rush here. I was gonna say he thinks we're gonna Dragon Rush a lot. So I was actually gonna Dragon Rush that time. That's why I went silent. But I still messed up the input. He dropped it. Huge drop for us. And we're out of there. We are out of there. All right, take this for sliding. No, patience was so good. Why am I need it? Why am I need it? 2H that anyway. Go. I am too slow. This is actually so sick. Did you see that? Watch that again in slow motion. That was so sick. Oh my God. That looks so Dragon Ball. Ah, I'm bad at the game though. Goku GT is still very good. Finally, now that's gonna set his anxiety up.  Reads. Yeah, I meant to do that. Let's go. I am a smart player these days. All right, I think I bring Goku GT in for this. All right, I don't feel like waiting till we get to the ground. Let a vanish kill. Going to the island stage. Let's go. All right, what do we do now? Back it up. Wait for a Super Dash maybe? Oh, that was sick. That was good. I didn't get anything off of that though. I've waited too long. All right, back up to the corner. Okay, love what I'm seeing here. Could it possibly be time? I haven't done this in a very long time. Yeah, you know what? I'm throwing it anyway. No, don't kill me please. Regret, take one of these. Would ya? The hope of everybody in the earth. The spirit bomb. You wouldn't. You wouldn't dare. Don't do it. That didn't work out. Reads. Why am I doing this? My reads are all wrong. Go, yes. Okay, ooh. Oh my goodness, that was sick. Great way to end the games. Hopefully you enjoyed this video. If you did, let me know your favorite moment down below in the comments while you're down there. Make sure to hit the like button and subscribe to the channel if you want to stay up to date on all these videos and support them so that you can keep seeing them. Other than that, if you want to watch even more videos right away, there should be some on your screen right now. I have been Dr. Doya. Thanks again for watching this one all the way to the end and I will see you in the next video.


Hi sisters. Today we're going to be talking about why James Charles has to apologize so damn much. What is up everybody? This is Chris from the Rewired Soul where we talk about the problem but focus on the solution. And if you're new to my channel, my channel is all about mental health. What I like to do is pull different topics from the YouTube community, try to teach you how to improve your mental and emotional well-being. So if you're into that, make sure you subscribe and ring that notification bell. Real quick, I've had a ton of amazing requests from all of you the last few days. There's a lot of cool stuff happening already in 2019. Best thing that you can do is follow me on Instagram and Twitter. It's the exact same handle at the Rewired Soul. So you know when I post new videos, because some of you have requested me talk about different shows or movies or YouTube situations or whatever and tie it into mental health. So make sure that you're following me on social media so you don't miss it. All right. So the bulk of this video, we're going to be talking about James Charles. We're going to be talking about anger. We're going to be talking about impulse control. This is actually a continuation of the video I did just the other day about the psychology of James Charles drama. A lot of you love that video because I did a lot of neuroscience in it. So I'm going to try to do some more, but this is more of a continuation. So if you would like to click up in the info card, I'm going to link that video I did as well. All right.  Now real quick, before I jump into this, like, can we talk, can we just talk about Jeffrey Star for one second? So on Snapchat, Jeffrey said this. All right. And you guys know, I'm going to start off the new year with a bang tomorrow. I'm uploading my first video of 2019 featuring sister James Charles. It is a good one. We got the sledgehammers ready and the flamethrower and Ms. Mama. Just wait until you see what really happens. I know there is a lot of speculations. So much tea like James got mad about a girl destroying his palette. How dare him? Girl, wait till you watch the video because you don't know what happens. Thanks. And then this happened. It's time to move on, baby, because in 2019 we're vaccinating our kids. Really, Jeffrey. All right. All right. So I think I think what Jeffrey was referring to about this video not being what you think it is. Really cool. Jeffrey and James Charles announced that they're both donating $25,000 each to women's shelters in Los Angeles, which is awesome. Very, very, very, very cool. But today we're going to be talking about impulse control and anger and all of that. So one thing that is very well known of James Charles is the drama he's had this year in 2018, but he always apologizes. All right. So we're going to be talking about why he apologizes so much. I'm going to use some of my own experience and you might be able to relate to it as well. So the first lesson I want to teach all of you, the very first lesson, like the best lesson we can all learn from James Charles, aside from like blending and like, what else does James Charles teach you, Tristan, like how to put on like this stuff up here on the eyes? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. The best lesson that we can learn from him is this. The second you experience an emotion is not the time to post on Twitter. Let me repeat that. The second you experience an emotion is not the time to tweet something out. So James had a little bit of an issue with another influencer because she destroyed his palette. But that's exactly what James Charles did in this video. But James kind of explained it away like this. Well, I just got into a scandal regarding this actually because there was a video circulating of a girl who destroyed my palette and when I first saw, I got really hurt by it. Yeah. Obviously, I had worked on it for so long and also too. It's been sold out everywhere. So all you to get personal, right? I was getting tweets that were so upset of people that couldn't get it.  But after further thought, like, once she was getting hate comments, which is so not okay in any way she performed. So I felt really bad. But two, like it's her money and you can do what you want with it. And like I just, it hurt at first, but I was like, let me get over this. It's not that deep. So in my other video, I explained how James Charles is still young. His prefrontal cortex is still developing. And part of this is impulse control. This is one of the reasons James Charles tweets so many things out that combined with emotional regulation, right? James Charles feels some type of way and his mind tells him aside from ego, and I'm not saying James Charles is egotistical, which he might be, but our ego says that we're justified. We need to put this information out there. We need to say something about this person, right? And, and James did this right when he found out the news. And this is why it's so important to meditate and develop your own pause button. All right. Part of meditation is strengthening a prefrontal cortex so you can pause and make better decisions. And this is so, so, so important because what happens to a lot of us is that we come off like hypocrites. So something that I didn't talk about the other day when it comes to the prefrontal cortex is one of the responsibilities of the prefrontal cortex is empathy. So what James Charles figured out later on was, oh my God, like, you know, he actually put himself in Lauren's shoes. He's like, oh, she bought it. She can do whatever she wants with it. But in that moment when his emotions were taking over, he didn't have that type of empathy. He couldn't see from her side. So here's a great example about how I work on my impulse control as well as my emotions. There was something that James Charles did. I forgot which thing it was. It was months ago, but I had a lot of people who wanted me to make a video about James Charles tweeting something out. And I just ignored it. I didn't make a video about it because basically what happened was somebody said something on Twitter and James Charles clapped back at him, like sticking up for himself, defending himself. He got a little sassy. Like if any of you follow me on Twitter, you see that I post comments that I reply to all the time where I'm clapping back. So think about it. If I didn't have the impulse control, like if my brain says, yeah, Chris, make a video on that just to get views. If I didn't stop and pause and think about it and think about James Charles situation, try to put myself in his shoes, ask myself why he did that. Then I would have made a video. Then all of you would have came at me calling me a hypocrite because I do the exact same thing. And by the way, I'm going to make a video explaining why I do that because I think it's very important that we talk about it because a lot of you understand why I do that. And some of you don't. But I hope you're starting to understand why we need to stop and pause because when our emotions are taking control, we can become hypocrites.  And even though I love when you guys call me out, I have my beautiful girlfriend over here, Tristan. She really enjoys calling me out on stuff. Like I try to pause and like think about the entire situation as a whole to make sure that I'm not a hypocrite, especially when I'm in a position that I'm in, right?  You see what I'm saying? So something that I talked about in my book, Rewire Your Anger, is apologizing, all right? So let's talk about this real quick. James Charles, like it's great, it's great to apologize, but let me tell you this, let me let me let you in on a little secret about Chris.  I don't know if you can relate to that, but I hate apologizing. I hate it. I hate it. I do it, but I hate it, all right? And you know what the trick is to quit apologizing so much is quit doing things you need to apologize for, all right? And that is why we need to control our impulses as well as our emotions. Do you see what I'm saying? Because when I don't have control over those things, I keep doing a bunch of ratchet things that means I have to apologize to people.  So like, I always tell you guys, I'm always trying to teach you guys mental health is more than just not having a mental illness, okay? Mental health is impulse control. Mental health is controlling your anger. You see what I'm saying? So like, I no longer lash out on people and have to apologize for something. I have only done two apologies on my YouTube channel with almost 700 videos and both of them were very minor, very minor. There were more corrections and apologies, but I did understand why people might, you know, see what I was saying in a different way. So I went back and I corrected myself, all right? But I used to be a drug addict and alcoholic who constantly had to apologize to people, not only for like lying, cheating, and stealing, right? But a lot of it was from my anger, my emotional outbursts. Like, when I first got sober, I had so many anger issues. It's one of the reasons why I wrote my book, Rewire Your Anger. I had so many anger issues and I felt so bad. Like, can you relate to that? Let me know down in the comments below.  Because I felt bad about it. And by the way, that's proof that you're not a terrible person because you actually feel bad about it. But I would ask and be like, man, what do I do? I just freaked out at my mom and it was totally uncalled for or whatever. And they said, here, go apologize and try to correct the behavior. I'm like, dang, I hate apologizing, right?  So I hope you realize if you're new to my channel, this video isn't for James Charles. This video is for you. So if you can relate to James Charles always having to apologize, how about you start going to therapy? How about you start meditating? You know what I mean?  Something that I do constantly that y'all don't even know about really is that I'm constantly running ideas past Tristan for YouTube videos for tweets. You know what I mean? Like, do you think this would cause a problem, right? Because my ego says I should do it. But thank goodness, Tristan has a very level head and she can be like, nah, that's maybe a bad idea. All right. But anyways, if you're struggling with anger issues, check out the description below. There's some resources like my book and some other stuff. Come to the discord server. We have an entire chat just for venting so you don't got to tweet stuff out and then apologize later. All right. Anyways, that's all I got for this video. If you liked this video, please give it a thumbs up. If you're new, make sure you subscribe and read that notification bell because I make a ton of videos and a huge, huge, huge thank you to everybody supporting the channel over on Patreon.  There's a bunch of cool stuff that we're offering now such as group sessions and one on one calls and all stuff like that. All right. Thanks again for watching and I'll see you next time.


We're with colonel and right who's flown in all the way from Hawaii to the relatively cooler temperatures of Washington And what does this rally mean to you right now in the state that we're in well Joe as you mentioned? I'm a retired army colonel I'm almost also a former US diplomat that almost 20 years ago to them to the month I resigned an opposition to another war and that was the US war on Iraq So this one of the war in Ukraine no matter what the rationale is for these wars that our governments Whether it's the Russian government the US government give to the world for needing to have a war We know what it results in it results and millions of people either being killed being injured They're homes destroyed the economy destroyed somewhere and it just plain wrong So I'm here to say yeah one more time know to these wars and talk dialogue negotiate and stop the Killings and what do you think is going to happen in Ukraine? Do you have any hope for a negotiated settlement? No, I think there is some hope I mean the the global south As a unit has told during the United Nations that that this these wars need to end We now have China that says on the 24th of February they're going to announce their attempt at The escalation trying to get this going president Lula of Brazil has already told president I'll go I won't participate in more weapons, but I will help help in sponsoring negotiations and talk so there are more people stepping in besides the Turks have been trying even the Israelis have tried Saudi Arabian plan But Biden's uninterested in peace talks as we saw they've stopped the Israeli Prime Minister revealed a couple of weeks that the Americans stopped Working on a peace plan. We know about Boris Johnson showing up It looks like they want to keep this war going as long as possible to weaken and they still have fantasies of toppling Well indeed and that's why we are having this rally Today, even though there are lots of groups that are in it that I don't agree with on much of anything But I agree with them on this and I'll stand here on this platform to say no to these wars And it's our job as US citizens to get our Congress and the president to stop this shit I'll let one last question in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 the way the Television in particular, but the newspapers prime this country the population for war was something I'd never But it seems to be even even worse And it was our the US government George Bush and all those war criminals saying it's weapons of mass destruction That's why we've got to go in and destroy and yet there were voices out there saying there are no weapons of mass destruction left We know that and yet the propaganda was so strong The largest protest in the history of the world all over the world Stupid ass George Bush went ahead and started that war and you have you know, millions of you Iraqis that had to flee as refugees people that were You know their homes destroyed It was horrible and finally it ended. Well this time around the propaganda is easier for you to say they got Russian food So they could easily point that this is the aggressor The Nazis rejected the treaty proposals the fact that never implemented on purpose And trying to prevent the next war is a critical part of trying to end this part This war right now. Very good. Thank you so much


This is State Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. And welcome to our live outside broadcast today. I'm your host, Pete McGinnis-Mark, and today we're actually on location at the School of Ocean, Earth Science and Technology's open house. So we're on the UH Monoa campus, and this is a really special event. Every two years, they have an open house, and they display a whole variety of their science and research to the whole community. And we've got literally thousands of school kids here today from DOE. We're trying to instill in them excitement for science, math and engineering with a whole variety of things. And for background, the School of Ocean, Earth Science and Technology covers many different things of earth science. So we've got oceanographers who are studying not only the ocean floor, but also the circulation of ocean currents, as well as looking at microbes within the ocean. And then we have people who are concerned about Hawaii's coastline. We're soon talked to somebody from the Sea Grant program about how we're trying to preserve our coral reefs and our shoreline and the threat of sea level rise. We have meteorologists here who worry about hurricanes, which might be affecting Hawaii. And then we have a whole series of earth science projects. And earth science might be volcanoes, or it might be tsunamis, or it might be earthquakes. And then within the school as well, as viewers to ThinkTech already know, we have a variety of people who are studying different planets. So we have people who are looking at the geology of Mars. We're looking at meteorites. We're looking at very detailed aspects of how the solar system was put together. But as you can look around and we can take a look and see, we've got a whole variety of different exhibits here. And let's just take a look. We're going to take a walk down here just for a short minute. We're going to see some of the educational aspects that SOAST is involved in. And basically we've got youngsters who are learning here about the various fisheries around the coast of Hawaii, as well as how we can actually preserve. Sea Grant program here in Hawaii, for example, runs the visitor center at Hanama Bay. So it's really important that locals understand how we need to preserve and protect our coastal ecosystem. Fisheries are an important thing, not only as a food supply, but also for attracting tourists. Tourist dollars are really important as well. So as we go further along here, we've got a variety of individual instrumentation. And we've got here a particular exhibit. John, can you tell me what it is? You're live on Think Tech Hawaii, which is a local science program. Can you just tell us a little bit about what the exhibit is here? So today we're demonstrating how we use sonar or sound waves to make maps of the seafloor. So in the ocean, this light only penetrates through the top few hundred feet or so. So we can't see anything using light in the deeper ocean. So what we do, so what we have over here is a model research ship. On the bottom of that little ship there is a transducer that's emitting sound waves. And then it basically listens for the echo off the seafloor. So based on how long it takes for the sound to get back to the ship, we can say how far away the seafloor is so we can get depth measurements of the seafloor. And John, this is important not only if you're trying to do the geology of the ocean floor, but also presumably oceanographers are interested in how deep the ocean is, which would influence ocean circulation. Is that correct? Yes, yes. You can also see things like shipwrecks and things like that. You can see even you can see large schools of fish in the water. The sound will reflect off a large school of fish. So fish finders that people use in lakes and stuff like that. It's the same technology. And I understand in the Department of Ocean Resources Engineering, there are people who study the acoustic properties of the ocean trying to infer what the salinity is at various levels or what the temperature distribution is. And all of that feeds into the kind of work which you're just describing here. And I'm intrigued by the actual piece of hardware. Was this built especially for this demo because it looks... Yes, actually I was the one that built most of the frame. Another guy did all the programming and electronics part of it. But yes, we had an earlier version of this that was a wooden frame and then we were able to get a grant to build a nicer version of it. All right, so outreach, community education is another important thing of what you're doing. All right, well, thank you very much, John. Thank you. All right, let's go back. As we were talking about oceanography, we have a display. Many of the investigators in our Oceanography Department had sourced. They actually go and they study the ocean floor and they look for various fish and various microbes. So in another exhibit just along here, we'll see some of the live video from the ocean floor. And as you can see, as we just walk along here, we've got a large number of students. We have over 6,000 students who are actually attending this particular event. And what, as we're just passing by here, what we're seeing is part of the Sea Grant College Program. And those of you who are regular viewers of Thick Tech Hawaii Research in Manoa will know that last Monday, we had two people from SOES who are coming here to talk about the open house. And in front of me now, we have Cindy Natman, who is the Outreach Coordinator for the Sea Grant College Program. Cindy, good to see you again. Aloha Pete, it's great to see you too. The day finally arrived. The day is finally arrived and we're standing in front of the Sea Grant exhibit now. We're surrounded by students. But can you just give us a brief introduction again to what Sea Grant Program does here at Manoa? Certainly. So the Sea Grant Program falls under the School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology. And we really think of ourselves as one of the outreach arms of SOES. We do a lot of outreach and education directly to the community and try to bridge the university and the scientists and the community and make sure that all the fascinating science that's happening here makes its way to the community and people that can use it. And obviously, getting the science to the community is just the first step. Trying to help people use this information to improve their own lives. Whether it's going to Hanama Bay to see the fish, avoiding the monk seal at Kairana Beach, or just trying to... Where do they build houses along the coastline in the advent of sea level rise? All of that is covered by Sea Grant, correct? That's exactly right. We try to make sure that we really understand what the needs of the community are. And we try to identify the extension faculty and the work that we do based on those needs. And you mentioned extension faculty. I believe there's about 50 such people who are scattered all around the Pacific Basin. That's not just based here in Manoa. Is that correct? That's right. So actually Sea Grant is comprised of about 45 people total. So that's all of our administrative staff and our extension faculty. And yes, we're based all throughout the Hawaiian Islands and also down in American Samoa and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands. And for our viewers, we're talking about Sea Grant. But in addition, recognize that SOAST is in charge of the Space Grant College Program, which is funded not by NOAA, as in the case of Sea Grant, but by NASA. And then there's another program, the Land Grant Program, which is operated by our College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources. That is also here on campus. So UH Manoa really has this emphasis to try and get scientific information, practical knowledge out to our community. So this is a major role of what we try to do here at the university. So Cindy, thank you very much. We're going to take a look at the ocean floor. Maybe you can join us and you can tell us a bit about the ocean floor as well. I can walk in with you. I certainly can. All right, Ian. Our cameraman Ian is going to come in with me and we're going to try and see what it is we've got here on the ocean floor. And as you can see, we've got some high technology here. We've got a class that is basically looking at a computer display screen. And what this display screen is showing is the ocean floor. And we can tell that the depth of the water here is over a kilometer. So it's almost a mile underwater. And one of the things which some of our faculty have been doing in source is to go down into the Mariana Trench, which is the deepest part of the earth's ocean floor. And they've been discovering new fish. They've been trying to understand the geology. And some of you may have heard of the term plate tectonics. Well, the Mariana Trench is where two of the plates collide and one dives underneath the other and trying to understand how that operates, how the geological properties of the earth's surface really operate, why the ocean floors are much younger than the continents, for example. We've got a whole variety of geologists here at SOES who are trying to understand volcanic processes, earthquakes, as well as the general characteristics like the magnetic anomalies or the gravity variations on the earth's surface. And this is important because understanding the way plate tectonics operates is also important for trying to understand things like the distribution of earthquakes and volcanoes. And what we can see here is SOES has both its own unmanned research vessel, which will go down to water depths of over six kilometers. And we've also had faculty who have been involved in trying to go down in submarines. SOES has two submarines which could go down to over two kilometers and going down to actually see with your own eyes what some of the geologists. It's really spectacular. I did it myself back in the 80s with the submarine Alvin. And you really get a different perspective. It's just like going to explore a new planet, for example, because its cold visibility is really poor. You can only see about 50 feet around you and it's just a totally alien environment. So let's move on and we'll try and find some other research activity here. And unfortunately throughout this morning's show, we're not going to have a chance to see everything because there's actually about five different buildings worth of exhibits and we've only got a fraction of the time. Many of them are inside laboratories. Many of them are in areas which we can't really get to in a short period of time. But let's just walk out here. We go through a corridor and what we've got through this part of the facility is a variety of geology exhibits as well as a variety of marine related activities. So you can see that we're occupying yet another part of the school's facilities out here in the courtyard. Let's go and take a look at some of the exhibits over here. And what we've got is a whole variety of earth scientists. We've talked to people with Sea Grant who are interested about marine geology. But what we're going to do right now is we're going to walk over and we can see they've got an exhibit of how a volcano explodes. And exploding volcanoes are things which we don't have here in Hawaii but trying to understand the distribution of lava flows where volcanic risks are also really important. So if we can wander over here and take a look, we're getting really close to having a demonstration of what an explosive volcano would look like. Some of you might remember Mount Pinatubo which erupted in 1991 or Mount St. Helens which erupted in 1980. What we're trying to do here is to show the students some of the physics behind why a volcano explodes. And basically what we're going to have is we're going to have a container full of dry ice. It's probably a soda bottle filled with dry ice which will be really cold. And once it's put into a bucket of water, that dry ice is going to start heating up and as it heats up it's going to expand and as it expands it's going to explode. And I think we might actually be just a few minutes too early for this particular exhibit. So let's come back here in a couple of minutes time and we'll see some of the demonstration over here for example. And let me just say how many students are actually around the facility here today. As we look around you can see literally we've got dozens of exhibits and around every single exhibit. We've got little clusters of school kids. Soast Open House is happening today, Friday, but also remember it's open also on Saturday tomorrow from 10 in the morning to 2 p.m. in the afternoon on the UH Manoa campus outside the School of Ocean and Earth Science and Technology. So if you're watching this show live and you say, oh I wish I could have come along to see some of the exhibits, talk to some of the scientists, get a better understanding of what the research is doing and why it's relevant to people in Hawaii or my child would like to have seen some of these exhibits. Come along tomorrow between 10 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. There won't be so many people so you'll have a great chance to talk to a variety of the research scientists one on one and if you've got any questions whether it's about say the recent discovery of the two colliding black holes way out in space or whether you want to talk to an oceanographer who's dived in the submarine down to the depths of the ocean floor or you're concerned about hurricanes or volcanic eruptions. This is a place to come tomorrow, Saturday, between 10 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. So we've got a break in the activity here but here we've got Dr. Brian Gleeser who was on our show a few weeks ago. If I'm just in your mind, Brian, you've been on Think Tech Hawaii. We are live right now. This is Dr. Brian Gleeser. Brian, can you tell us a little bit about your exhibit, please? Of course. So over there, they're talking about volcanoes. Here I've got a model of Luihi, which is our newest volcano coming up off the Big Island. I like to go to Luihi when it's not erupting and take expensive equipment like this with ROVs and understand the chemistry and microbiology of the system. But we also do that around Oahu. So you can go to Sandy's Beach and find where air and water and waves and sand mixed together and look like this. Or you can go to Heia Fishpond in the mangroves and find not beach that looks like this. So, Pete, let me get you to have a smell. Yeah. Yeah, it's very stinky. What about this one? That's even what I say. Yeah, right. So they're both black. There's no air mixing into these. One's really bad. One's kind of bad. What if I told you you could taste salt in this one and no salt in this one? What's the source of the salt? It must be seawater. Seawater. So different kinds of organisms live in seawater or freshwater and mix. Take a breath. We breathe oxygen. Bacteria breathe different things. So what we like to do is build sensors to help us measure the chemistry and the biology of the oceans. And you've got another group of students here. So what is it that you're trying to tell them? Inspire them to do marine sciences. If you like chemistry, we can understand the chemistry and how that reacts with life. If you don't like chemistry or biology, but you like to be a computer programmer, we need new tools to understand how the science works in the oceans. And back here, they'll be telling you more about the engineering. And we just missed one of the volcanic eruptions, which you haven't. No, need a watch. And the third table back here talks more about the science going on in Haiti of Fishpond. Great, great. So if you're a high school student or middle school student interested in chemistry or in engineering or physical oceanography, you're the place to come. We can do it all. We can do it all. Terrific, Brian. It's good to see you again and good luck with the exhibit. Okay. All right, let's keep wandering around. We're sorry we missed the explosion. We have it on tape from an earlier part of the show. So maybe we can cut that in later on. But let's wander over here. It's a major challenge to walk backwards through all these school kids though, because we've got so many people here. But let's see what we have over in this exhibit. And we have Andrea Gabrioli quite often on the show on Think Tech Hawaii. So let's come and take a look and see what he's doing over here. It looks like in addition to doing explosive volcanic eruptions, Andrea is showing us how you build a volcano out of lava flows, very similar to volcanoes that we have here in Hawaii. Kilauea is active right now. But of course, Oahu would have been just like Kilauea maybe three million years ago. So if we can zoom in on what Andrea is doing, we had Scott Rowland on the show last Monday and Scott was showing us a small version of this active lava flow. And what we're actually seeing in this screen, this is a whole series of molten wax and the molten wax simulates active lava flows. And what we've got on the computer screen, we've also got one of these thermal cameras which is showing temperatures. So we're actually able to tell the way in which the lava flows are cooling and whether or not they are stopping or flowing down the slope because they've run out of, in this case, molten wax, but also whether or not they're changing the temperature. And I got Sarah Fajens there. Sarah, can you come over? Dr. Sarah Fajens is another of the faculty members here in SOAST and she's a specialist in doing the American modeling. Good morning, Sarah. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're demonstrating here? Well, what we're doing today is we're making lava flows out of wax and we're varying the rates at which we pour the lava onto the surface here to show how different effusion rates affect how far the lava will flow. We also have two different types of demonstration here. We have the can over on the far side which is constantly erupting lava onto the surface here which shows the different types of shapes and lava tubes and lava channels that we can form from our wax lava simulant. And on the other side we have here a volcano, a wax volcano that has periodic eruptions, so shorter eruptions. And we can see the different shapes that are being produced as a result. We're building a wax volcano. Now, of course, you've been on Think, Take, Hawaii yourself talking about volcanic eruptions on other planets. How would this exhibit have to be changed to think about an eruption on another planet? Well, if we could somehow change the gravity that we were operating under here, we could simulate eruptions on Mars, for example. Other planets have different atmospheres as well, so Mars has a much lower atmospheric pressure than we have on Earth and that might cause these eruptions to be more explosive perhaps than we see on Earth. Eruption on the Moon have no atmosphere whatsoever. We might see very different cooling conditions on different planetary atmospheres. But the takeaway would be it's possible either in the laboratory or as your speciality is numerical modeling. Once you've got the basic ideas from an experiment such as this on Earth, in Earth gravity, in Earth's atmosphere, you can take that physical process and then understand what the role of gravity might be, what the role of different changes in magma composition might be, presumably, and so forth. Exactly right. We can develop our numerical models by looking very closely at what we see under terrestrial conditions and then we can change the parameters in the models. We can swap out the gravity for a Mars gravity or a Mars pressure and then we can apply those models to other planets and try to match up the predictions of the models with the sizes and shapes of the landforms that we can see on planets such as Mars. And of course, on my show, I always ask the planetary guests, who cares? What do you think you learn that if you're teaching a student about planetary volcanology, why should that be of relevance to people in Hawaii? Well, I mean, it's all about how the universe works, how our solstice informed and evolved over time. In studying other planets, we can also look back at the Earth and get insights into what early Earth might have been like. For example, Io has very, very hot eruptions and early on in Earth history, we had possibly very similar eruptions. So by looking at a body like Io, which is one of Jupiter's moons, we can get a glimpse back into early Earth history and understand how our own planet evolved. And presumably, this sort of information also feeds back with the recent Puna lava flows from Kilauea. You want to know when they're going to start or how far they're going to go. So there are relevant things that people in Hawaii can learn from the kind of experiments, right? Oh, absolutely, yes. We can develop these models, apply them onto other planets, apply them back to our planets to try and understand the hazards posed by such lava. So anyway, well, we need to move on. It's starting to rain, which is unfortunate, but we'll thank you again, Sarah, and we'll look forward to having you on the show again in the near future, all right. So let's move down here. We'll try and stay in the drive for the cameraman and we go on to a completely different set of exhibits. Here we're looking primarily at some activities related to... I don't know what. This is kind of interesting. We've got a lot of... Let me ask this young man here. What are you here for? You're on Think Tech Hawaii. Field trip? Field trip. This is great. This is a field trip. Are you a scientist?  Yeah? Are you getting excited? What do you think is the most exciting thing about the exhibits you've seen so far? Um... I don't know. The explosions, huh? Yeah? How about you? Did you enjoy the explosion? Mm-hmm. Yeah? It's exciting, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. Well, let's see if we can find something else just down here. I'm not sure Ian, our cameraman, is trying to stay dry, so we'll go around here. And obviously, we've got students of all ages from elementary school students to a whole variety of high school students. Some of the activities, such as what we're seeing right now, is primarily to just get the younger students really engaged in trying to understand the environment, recognizing that they're saying, ah, there's physical laws, I don't know, you have physical laws. Recognizing that they're saying, ah, there's physical laws, that you have to be respectful of the environment, whether or not you're looking, say, ah, I think we're seeing some seaweed over here, and we're trying to produce illustrations of wild animals and that sort of thing. So, although obviously at the university, we teach a whole series of courses both for undergraduate and graduate students, we see this as part of our role as a state university to actually engage the local community. So whether you've got a child who's like six or seven years old and is really trying to understand what she wants to do as a career, here's something that's really important for them to study, or if you're a PhD student and you're trying to understand how to build a remote sensing instrument to better understand what's going on there. So all of these kinds of exhibits we'll try and find somebody who we can talk to. Here we've got somebody from Fish and Wildlife. You do not have a name tag, but can I just say hello?  Tell us your name and what you're showing. My name is Amy Olive. I'm the education and outreach specialist for the Fish and Wildlife Service. I'm showing albatross boluses. It's basically the undigestible bits from an albatross' stomach.  So we find things like squid beechs, which we love to find, but we also find things like plastics and fishing line. So this is a coated albatross bolus just to make it. And so would you go to Kiana Point or some of the western islands where they say in Ireland where obviously there aren't as many people? You can go to Kiana Point. Obviously there aren't as many breeding pairs at Kiana Point, so you don't find quite as many. But we get our boluses from Midway Atoll National Wildlife Refuge in Papahana Mukuakea Marine National Monument because it is the largest albatross colony in the world. And you're showing us an old toothbrush and we've heard a lot about the explosion of plastic in the open ocean. Is this a concern for birds as well as animals? What can we do about it? It is a concern. Luckily albatrosses are able to regurgitate. They're able to throw up all this plastic in their stomachs. So it's not as big of a concern in certain species of birds. Other species, they're not able to regurgitate like the albatross. And of course we're looking at large pieces of plastic. It's actually a real problem I understand. All the smaller pieces of plastic which might get into the food chain. So what we're looking at here, this toothbrush obviously that's pretty easy to clear up because the microscopic pieces of plastic are the real problem, correct? Yeah, that's correct. The microscopic pieces are able to make its way through the food chain even into the fish that we eat. So that microplastics will get into our systems if we're not careful. Well, thank you very much. And it's great to see somebody here from fish and wildlife. I hope you're having a very productive, so-so open house. So thank you for spending a few minutes. Now of course, here in Hawaii we're really concerned about a whole variety of earth science. We mentioned ocean plastics. We've mentioned something about sea level rise as well as trying to inspire the next generation. So what I hope we've given you a brief glimpse of is the diversity of research which is being conducted here at SOS, the School of Ocean, Earth Science and Technology at the UH Manoa campus. This is just one of the schools at the Manoa campus. So, you know, whenever you hear about what is UH Manoa doing, does it get too much money? One of our key missions is to help the state with a whole variety of things. So I hope you've had at least a glimpse this morning about what SOS is doing to help the community. We have world-class scientists here. And hopefully if you have the time tomorrow, Saturday, come along to the second day of the open house, Saturday, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. at UH Manoa campus. So hope you enjoy the show and talk to you again on Think Tech Hawaii, researching Manoa every Monday at 1 o'clock. Goodbye from now. I'm your host, Pete McGinnis-Mar. Goodbye.