Hey everybody, today we're debating flat earth versus globe earth and we are starting right now With our globe earth Presentation from MC tune on the left side of your screen. Thanks so much for being here MC tune. The floor is all yours Right. Thank you very much James. Well, I have a screen to share. I just hit that right now so you can Do what you do with that so people can see it On a flat surface a triangle has 180 degrees On a surface that is spherical a triangle has more than 180 degrees It must have more than 180 degrees. You're looking right here on wolfram Dot com has some description about a spherical triangle The amount of the triangle in degrees that's over 180 degrees is called the spherical excess So if we were to measure A triangle on the shape of the earth and find that it's more than 180 degrees that would point very strongly to The earth being spherical rather than Being flat now you would want to repeat that over and over and over again to make sure that they're all equally Spherical instead of some sort of a lumpy sphericalness now this does not get affected by topography Or elevation changes it is outside of that When you do because you're only measuring horizontal angles So if it's up or down it doesn't matter it it is out of there So these things have been done. I have on my website at mc tune.net slash se a whole bunch of information about spherical excess Including at the bottom here Five different very detailed surveys Where the individual Spherical excess measurements are included in them. You can download every one of them. Have them have a look at them for yourself The critical thing is that these surveys were very successful surveys. They were used to measure different things and for example the Size of the united states it is the officially united states government Information about the size of the states if they were wrong people would know because it would get drastically wrong So i'll show you this is one called the principal arc of the meridian of the parallel of the oblique arcs. It's It's a big fancy name But here is an example of one of the pages in the book where it shows all these different triangles that they measured And Here is the actual raw data if you look here At any one of these particular triangles number one. We'll just start right there If you look over in that column to the right that i've highlighted in blue You can see the column that says spherical excess and that particular triangle has an excess of 57 arc minutes Uh, sorry seconds arc seconds 57 arc seconds, which is just under one arc minute, which is about one 60th of a degree Over 180 degrees now these particular measurements are accurate to three digits behind the decimal point on arc seconds, so they're extremely precise measurements The the margin of error of all of these is the same and you can see over and over and over again These these triangles all have a spherical excess now is the spherical excess changing so like maybe it's not spherical, but instead it's somehow And ob you know goofy shape. It's all lumpy and stuff like that we can then take the The the trig and we can do some trig on that right so if you see right here Solving for r. I did I did a little bit math. I'm not going to get into it It's all laid out on on my website here. I'm see tuned on that slash s e Including a mathematical proof by the good doctor clive wells if you want to look at that there you go a little Little taste of some of the math proof he did there you can take this formula you can plug it in to a Plug in the sides of the triangle and the angles of the triangle into This spherical trigonometric function and find out the radius of the object that it's sitting on I've done that for bunches of these different Measured triangles and put them all into this spreadsheet that you can look at and download You can analyze it yourself and we've found that the radius of all these Is very much in line with each other. In fact, when you take all the averages of these you get 6,375 kilometers for the radius of the earth This is not an assumption This is not the number that this particular survey Claimed this is purely by analyzing the measured triangles that they did in this particular survey That confirms the shape of the thing we live on is a sphere and there you go Thank you very much MC tune for that opening statement and Want to let you know folks if it's your first time here at modern day debate We are a neutral channel hosting debates on science religion and politics and we want to let you know We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you were from whether you be a Globe earth proponent flat earth proponent you name it we're thrilled to have you here And so we will kick it over to ryan for his opening statement ryan Thanks so much for being here with us. It's a true pleasure to have you the floor is all yours Thanks james and mc. Appreciate you guys having me last minute, uh, so we're gonna Do our best or at least i'll do my best. This is my first time for anybody to watch. It's my first time doing a youtube anything So bear with me. Um When it comes to the research i've been doing for the past five years or so I've found it's best to use the kiss method Keep it simple stupid When it comes to looking at observable phenomenon observable measurable distances heights, uh elevations Thank you. You know basically it comes down to for me things that are Globe killers for me are we see too far? Uh water doesn't curve Um Ships don't disappear over the horizon, you know the same old things, uh, you know And I hate to call them the same old things but the truth is When they keep coming around it they keep coming around for a reason it's because they're simple they're testable They're observable they're repeatable And they're you know at some point, you know, I guess they're still disputable because we're all here tonight But you know as you know, I don't call myself a flatter. There's so much as I prefer the term globe skeptic I don't profess to have a model of anything. I am questioning the model. I was presented uh, and so um As far as you know, a lot of lots. I've heard many people make demands for models. Um, as I've examined the globe model There are so many different versions of it, uh projections, topographies, uh depends on if you're looking for distance this way or um Country size on this map or distances on that map. Uh, there isn't one consistent model that uh, uh Demonstrates any of the the claims of globe math. Uh, so when it comes to math again I kind of fall back on the the tesla quote, which I'm going to butcher. I'm sure which uh, basically says that these days Science and math has gone so far down its own rabbit hole that we just build equation upon equation upon equation until we get lost in meaning of it and has no relevance to physical reality anymore So I'm not often swayed by uh fancy math without photo photographic evidence or backup I things that I focus on are like I said long-term distances Ships over the horizon One of the things that is my personal favorite is of course long distance feeling over over flat water over flat as of water. Uh, there's laser tests after laser tests. Uh The nat geo experiment that they did with everyone was a complete farce And even then they still lacked the fail to show curvature um So really I don't know. This is terrible opening statement I don't know if I'm supposed to be presenting an idea or just uh Asking questions. I'm not really sure what you're looking for me. Uh, as far as the debate I haven't done a debate since eighth grade high school Uh, so if you know forgive me for completely screwing up the format here with apologies to mc as well um So I don't know. I guess that's all I have You gotta thank you very much ryan and with that we'll jump into open conversation Want to let you know a couple of things folks We are absolutely thrilled that modern day debate is available on podcast as you see on The far right side of your screen and also folks our guests are linked in the description whether you're listening via YouTube or if you happen to be listening via the modern day debate podcast We also put our guest links in the description box there as well ryan doesn't currently have a channel So there is no link for ryan at the moment. However mc tune is linked in the description box And as I mentioned, that's for both Pardon my audio folks a little bit wonky today, but that's for both youtube and on the modern day debate podcast with that Gentlemen, thanks so much. The floor is all yours for open dialogue um, all right, well You uh, I took notes, but you didn't you didn't you made a few claims, but didn't have any support for it. So Uh, how about you said you see too far. Could you pull up a see too far example? on my computer Or just out of somewhere somehow if you're gonna say we see too far Sure, like the basic chicago skyline from 58 miles away on a clear day with I need to see the the latitude longitude of of where the picture was taken as well as the elevation That's it. Mm-hmm. Uh, are you not familiar with the chicago skyline picture? I'm talking. I am I've done I've done the math. It's no problem with the math. So really Yeah, I don't think my guess is you've not done the math Oh, I've done the math. Uh, like I said, I'm just uh, I don't have a lot of stuff with me So I'm just shooting from pure memory. Um, so elevation How about this? How about how about Um, we get the distance. I'll give you the predicted globe amount of of uh obstruction of the bottom and you give the predicted flat earth Obstruction of the bottom and then we'll compare to see which is more for example. Go ahead with an example. What do you mean? So so if you say it's a certain distance uh, then I'll take that distance to the elevation and put it into the globe math the correct globe Calculations and you do the same for flat earth. You say well according to flat earth This a certain amount of the bottom of something should be obstructed and then we'll compare to see which one is closer to The amount of obstruction Well, I think obstruction is a moot point because it happens on a flat model and a globe model So, well, yeah, so so you yeah, it's just to be sure that you got to finish that point. Uh, mc tune No, that was good that uh, that kind of falls into the category as far as obstruction over distance goes That falls into the basket of works on both models Well, yeah, that that would be that'd be exactly that's exactly what i'm talking about. So if it if it works then You tell us how you how, you know plug it into the flat earth Bottom up obstruction calculator to find out how much according to the flat earth model that you said How much of it should be obstructed? And i'll do the same for the globe and then we can compare Well, again, I don't want to lean on globe earth model term The point that obstruction happens whether you're on a curved surface or a flat surface to me makes Makes it so Well, how do I want to put this like? If the globe model is true Then there shouldn't be any reasonable objection to disproving claims of it such as Ships on the horizon distance over flat water over long distances If the globe model says that it should definitely happen at, you know, eight inches per mile squared No, it doesn't plus elevation wrong math. That's fine Absolutely wrong math Whether the math is wrong or not if you can do that same experiment using any other method Then it doesn't matter how far you can see on a flat world by having two different ways To see that far or prove those distances Then it makes the surface Irrelevant because if it's if it can be done on a flat model or a flat experiment as well as on a curved experiment Yes, and the curved experiment isn't the only guy in the room And he has to be the only one in the room that can do his trick If anyone else can repeat his trick, then he's not the only guy so it's not the only show in town Is that makes sense? It seems to me that you do not want to provide A mechanism to to predict or somehow describe the amount that should be hidden Over a flat surface. It should be pretty easy. You should just be able to say oh Here's our here's how we know how much should be hidden from 58 miles on flat earth Why should we know that my I guess my question is the globe is the one that says we should be able to see so far Or not to be able to see so far Well, flat earth says we should far as I know Since there's nothing obstructing it and a flat something above a flat surface can't obstruct something above a flat surface According to all the physics, I know But you have you may disagree so then you could provide the physics in the and the way to predict the amount hidden Over flat surface, then we can just compare right. There's two models. We have two hypotheses. Let's test both But we don't have two models We have a globe model that claims to be a model and I am a globe step Skeptic challenging that model and so if I don't measurements happen someone else someone else might have four different ways to measure distance But the globe should be the only one able to do it And if anyone else can repeat yeah, I've never I've never seen it not happen So all you need to do is just find with the example that you think is the one That just moves the globe and then we'll do it. Well, we'll test it one example that just proved the globe the debate would be over You I know you there's never been one and and so that's why the debate is Silly right, but but if you could just provide one where you think we can see too far we can test it right now Um, well, I don't I don't have the ability to share screens. I could hold up like memes on my phone But that doesn't seem productive. Uh I'm trying that's why I'm trying to use examples that if anyone who's been involved in this debate for any like time It's familiar with standard examples that are used by both sides. That's why I was going to the chicago style line. I mean the So for example long distance record, uh photographs that are taken even from mountaintops We're seeing three 400 500 miles When we shouldn't be able to see anything we're seeing things that should be It seems to me that you've never actually done the math because you said eight inches per mile squared Minus the elevation which is absolutely the wrong way to do it Well, if I said minus the elevation, I was just misspeaking out of nerves, but so how how do you think inches per mile squared? How do you think is the correct way to use to predict the amount hidden on the globe? Well, the scent the formula the globe provides is eight inches per mile squared wrong That's not my claim. So don't straw man. Me. That's not my claim. That's not my claim either the okay I'll tell you my how about I'll I'll tell you how to calculate the amount hidden On the globe you tell me you can't tell me the amount hidden on over a flat surface. So you you lose coming out Right away, but I'll tell you the correct way to predict the amount hit on me the claims of the globe That's the well yet, but you're coming with the wrong one I'm telling you it's the wrong one and you're telling me that I'm not right about my own model. Okay Okay, so eight inches per mile squared isn't a thing. That is the wrong way to predict the amount hidden Let me guess. Is there a refraction involved in there's always refraction involved, especially over a low Refraction is a refraction is an assumed effect anyways, there is no Definite refraction. Sorry, mctune.net slash refraction has many many measured empirical Empirical measurements of the effects of refraction over low elevation Of course refraction has effects of low elevation, but it's also affected by humidity time of day time of year temperature at the air Sure. So so you would want to get all of those things Which are there by so to use the formula if you'd involve standard refraction Is I don't use standard refraction. So I will I will put into the chat for you to see as well as Everybody else to see the the correct formula to calculate the amount hidden There it is it's uh it's not Eight inches per mile squared because eight inches per mile squared has no way of including the observer height The observer height is absolutely necessary to know how much is hidden So there it is. It's uh h equals r over cosine. I'm not gonna go over the whole thing there. It's in the chat So that's the correct way to do it Assuming zero refraction, then you plug in the previously measured radius of the earth Which I already presented the measurements of the radius of the earth Again the radius of the measure I'm sorry go ahead Like I already presented the the measurements of the radius of the earth that that we can I mean if you want we can address that later, but Then if you know the refraction like for example, if you measured the lapse rate Then then you can then you know it and you can you can get The the effects of the refraction and you can include that in the formula If you don't know the amount of refraction Then you can only guess based on On on the conditions and you're going to get a range and your margin of error is going to be big But you can do that and have a range, right? So since the the josh no wiki photograph of the chicago skyline doesn't have any measured Uh lapse rate. We don't know the actual coefficient of refraction So we only can guess and we can look at mc 29 net slash refraction to look at some of the other things That have been measured look at the same conditions time of day and uh temperature of water temperature of air And you can get a range now when you do that All of the josh winowiki photographs completely match What never matches though for flat earth is that that you don't see lakeshore drive What's walking? I'm not sure what lakeshore drive is It's the drive that goes right along the the lake All the way across the chicago skyline So from 58 miles away for that to work You want to be able to see the pebbles on the pavement at ground level? No, um, you should see for flat earth because there's nothing obstructing it and No flat earth there has ever presented an actual physics explanation for why something would be obstructed when there's nothing in the way Um, you should see you should see Lakeshore drive Right there It's not on the beach with with angular angular reduction taken into account from 58 miles away Should be able to see the the ground lakeshore drive. You should see yeah Well, they're taking it right so you should see you should see the lights from the cars The headlights from the cars And the street lights that go along there and the bottoms of the floors of all the buildings there Since there's no obstruction There's nothing in the way claiming that no instruction for flat earth. There would be nothing in the way Right if you you said here from the bottom up no matter what? Well, well then why why does that happen if there's nothing in the way? Because that's how angular resolution works. Oh, well go ahead and present resolution present how that works Uh, the only thing I could present is the basic intro to art courses. I took in high school This is physics not art This is physics not art. Well, it's still basic perspective. Everything comes to a focal point along the horizon line Yeah, but art in in art you don't draw things that are too small to see but in reality It's still there if there's light emanating from it. You still see it with your eye So if there's like the human eye can only resolve to point zero two degrees resolved detail But the light is still there it doesn't make it invisible It makes that the detail is not resolvable That's resolution. You said resolved. That's correct. Yeah, you can't resolve the detail if it's too small But if there's light coming from it, you still see the light if it's too small You see a point light, but you still see light. It doesn't disappear That you can see infinite distance on a flat surface and thing. No, no I'm assuming that you can you can see 58 miles Not infinite 58 miles if you can see the skyscraper the top of the skyscraper Yeah, which is farther away from you Then then the bottom of the skyscraper Then you should absolutely see the bottom of the skyscraper because there's nothing blocking your view There is things blocking your view the perspective is blocking your view Hold on let just we might have to break it into three minute intervals just to keep it controlled Oh, we'll let it keep going because it's not too bad, but just got to let you guys know Just to hear from both of you present the physics for how perspective makes things disappear For example, if I go to home depot and set up a stack of four bricks at the opposite end of the building walk all the way across What 400 yards away if that 100 yards away and drop my camera all the way to ground level The bottom bricks on that stack will disappear from view doesn't you can zoom in and will present this go ahead I don't I don't believe you Um, well like I said I don't have anything so then don't don't make claims that you can't support. How about that? Okay, all right I'm just trying to use common sense Because common sense says nothing's in the way Nothing will be obstructed. That's common sense Common sense says that things disappear from the bottom up no matter what you can do on a table top You can do it in your driveway. You can do it at home depot. You can do it across the lake You can do it down a highway you can do it down trail train track common sense doesn't say that at all Well, there's nothing in the way the term common sense is in its common or But you see there's there's nothing in the way so so there's no physics to support your claim At all because I want to give We'll give uh, let's give mc tune mc tune. Sorry two minutes mc tune and then we'll kick it back over to Two minutes if if there's nothing in the way, there's nothing in the way to block it So on the bottom the the all the way across the shoreline of of chicago Uh, you can't see on any of the joshua new yuki photos. You don't see the bottoms You don't see lake shore drive yet. There's nothing in the way There's nothing blocking one's act There's nothing blocking it right if this is if this is Your hypothesized flat water and you've got something over here and you're you're up here on on a sand dune 50 feet 80 feet up There's nothing between here and the camera To to stop you from seeing what's there Okay, we're not talking about 50 feet up on a sand dune We're talking at sea level at ground level camera. I'd observe a height six feet or so that wasn't josh manuky Do you have a different i'll give you i'll give you another 60 seconds ryan And then it will kick it back over to mc tune for that first one by mc tune is about a minute and a half So we'll do minute and a half intervals. So you got about fair enough Um, so I guess you keep saying that there's nothing in the way But we're not you're not taking into account any kind of atmospheric lensing atmospheric density Um anything like that present the physics one sec just just to give him the same one minute and a half that uh We give you mc tune Yeah, again, I'm not going to be presenting physics tonight because I just came to have a regular debate using common sense Because that's how easy it is to dismantle the globe It's it's common sense.  He converted me back to the globe problem is that I already was a global earther I grew up believing that and and thinking that So I've already gone and challenged my belief system and Have not replaced it with anything. I have now just left it open-ended Uh, and so my quest isn't to to prove what it is. It's more to know what it is And so We're kind of getting sidetracked onto the the Chicago skyline. That's partially my fault as well. Um Because there's there's many many things that we can talk about and if I change the subject I'm just going to get accused of changing the subject and so Uh, we're we're basically going in circles around a minute and a half Yeah, so yeah, I gotta So, you know kind of going in circles here around the scene too far because you're keeping you continue to ask me for Things that I've already said and that you know, I'm not going to be able to buy tonight Let's give it I'm going to switch it over to mc toon just to have it roughly match for time So mc toon you got about two minutes All right. Well a fundamental part of flat earth is getting details wrong So here is Right here where josh window wiki took the picture was uh not at sea level it was um 108 feet from the top of the dune right so 180 feet sorry so it is not from The the water level right and and never never do flat earthers ever take into account the details Right, they just say well, it must have been From from a certain level, but it's not it's always wrong So get your details right before you start talking about stuff It seems like you are convinced by lack of detail and lack of critical thinking on how to actually analyze Stuff because you talked about eight inches per mile squared if you've been in this for five years You've not been paying attention because that's the wrong formula Okay, we'll give you the same Yeah. Oh, are you done? Sorry. Yep. Okay, sorry um based on The alleged circumference of the ball eight inches per mile squared measures arcs Which for the purposes of long distance viewing for 100 miles or less It is definitely acceptable to use eight inches per mile squared for distances what we're talking about with chicago And how do you take into account using that formula? Where do you plug in the observer height? um Exactly, it's not in the formula the formula. I gave you has the observer height and Okay, so stop using that it's a lie Robotham introduced that A hundred and some years ago. It's a lie. It doesn't tell you I'm introducing it. Yes. Robotham introduced that I read his book. Okay, okay It's a lie that has nothing to do with the amount hidden It is a it is something that surveyors use in very specific use cases, but never To predict the amount hidden The formula I gave you is the correct formula to predict the amount hidden Use the radius of the earth that I already previously identified as a measurement that was done The radius was based on assumptions though No, no, no, no, no, no you didn't pay attention to what I said None of my presentation had any assumptions about the shape of the earth No, they were it. They were just re kind of give you about two minutes to respond ryan Sorry, we'll give you a chance to respond Ryan will give you about a minute and a half two minutes. There's about the same that mc tune had Right now, right. Yep. Okay. Go sorry. Um So you're talking about the example it's used before with your spherical triangles and When you said and you you know, you do this measurement at these different locations six seven or eight locations And when we do those it comes out and the measure radius or the factor radius the calculator radius Matches what we expect to see Um of the earth that it is exactly or close to what to predict what the model predicts The problem is is that the radius that the model predicts is itself an assumption Based on distances to venus and distances to this and that and you know using using uh Oh, what is the radius? It's uh distance to venus and distance to sun with the angles Multiplied to each other, but both distances are assumed So the question is how do you initially come up with the radius for the earth? To even to even compare it to that mathematics that you get from those spherical triangle surveying experiments that you Uh identified earlier. Gotcha. We'll kick it over to mc tune for two minutes All right. Well, I'm sharing it again since he didn't pay attention I assume nothing nothing at all These these triangles these spherical triangles were measured They were more than 180 degrees every single one of them that absolutely defeats the possibility That the the surface of the earth could be flat No question about it because they're not 180 degrees every one of them is more than 180 degrees This spreadsheet here assuming nothing I put the the three sides of the triangle in the three angles of the triangle into the formula To get the radius If you have a a triangle Right, that's all it is it outputs the radius. It does not assume the radius It outputs the radius the radius was calculated based on the measurements to be 6,375 miles That is not assuming anything. It has nothing to do with venus It has nothing to do with anybody else's measurement just these Spherical triangles that were measured empirical measurements of the triangle So if you're going to address this evidence, I would love that and not to deflect to some other evidence Well, I'm not familiar with spherical triangles. So, um, You know, when you were explaining it at the outset, I will admit I was trying to keep up with what you were explaining But you did mention something about how Elevation didn't matter or you were you were you were saying how like it doesn't matter how high or whatever It's just the distances. Could you re-explain that just to help me? Yeah, so understand how you were describing the the How the experiment is set up to begin with Yeah, it's just a measurement, right? It's done Or sorry, not the measurement So Surveyors use use these theatolites. They they do these either from some sort of a tall platform or from a mountaintop or Some some things so that they can identify where they're at and they can find the other the other points And they use horizontal measurements. They don't they don't use vertical measurements. So it's called an azimuth Right. It's just a left-to-right measurement. And so they'll measure from from one survey point a station that they're at they'll measure From To one point at another survey station To another point on a service station. They'll measure that angle and how In this experiment how far were those first two points from each other? Well, the triangles in general are multiple kilometers some of them more than 100 kilometers in size right So each side of them is more or less than 100 kilometers Uh on the east coast they were smaller because they don't have as many peaks like on the the west coast They they do it across the rocky mountains and they could they had higher peaks to use But it doesn't matter every one of them the the when you add up the degrees In the triangle add to more than 180 degrees and it's just the left right. It's it's not Taking it's not the vertical measurement. So you don't the the topography doesn't change it You just get the left to right Um, so I guess I guess I take some issue with that because even at 100 kilometers, which is what around 62 60 miles or so um There is no curvature obstructing the view from each the auto light to itself just while they're taking the measurement Yeah, they're on they're on peaks or high uh, they they build stations if they if they can't have a a hill hilltop or a Mountain top they actually build and you can see they have the pictures in in this book Of the structures they build So when we're measuring to test for flatness, we have to do it at ground level and taking observer's height But when they're measuring 60 miles Across they're measuring something else Sorry, they're measuring something other than what you were trying to measure They're measuring a triangle A horizontal, but they're still made up of three straight lines, right like connecting each other right so What is obstructing their view if nothing is obstructing these things from seeing each other That itself tells you that they can see too far No, none of them are seeing too far Please address the actual evidence. They're on mountain Mountain tops or hill tops or on a tall structure that they built. There's nothing in the way I don't know what to say, man. I don't say it seems like such a Maybe maybe you should actually do some research on your own These things have been done for centuries, right? You didn't know about it because your your papa fluff didn't tell you about it Because he didn't know about it. That's an unfair ad hominem attack That's not a debate that you that you have a papa fluff Whatever that word means it sounds insulting. So yeah, okay, that's not part of the debate. I don't know what that means But it sounds involving so but but somebody didn't tell you these things when you could have looked into them Why didn't you look into them? Maybe why didn't you look into the the thousands of times that the earth has been measured by surveyors? Are you well, let's give them a chance to initially answer the question Uh, maybe I just haven't gotten that far yet to Get to debunking every single thing Uh on the globe model again, it's the globe that has things to prove So I don't I don't know if we want to spend this whole debate talking about the long distance And I feel like I'm the one who brought it up. Uh, and so I definitely painted myself into a corner here Um, so I don't know what to say. Uh, I'm not a physics expert Um, I just have common sense, you know, the things that I was told about the globe about Ships disappearing over the horizon, which is long distance over water. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm changing the subject just kind of Including that in my trajectory if you will When I'm told that that I shouldn't be able to see after this far and I zoom in I'm up with my own camera when I go out to the beach to Long Beach and zoom in on things that I shouldn't be able to see That just puts doubt in my mind and that's the problem with the globe in general I guess is that there's just too much room for doubt That it does not seem like a slam dunk to me Every time I see one proof that makes me want to go look deeper into a claim or an evidence or proof I've got five more that'll like yeah, well, what about this? I'm like, yeah, that doesn't make any sense either. Uh, so Again, I will give you Points if you want for being the experienced debater who's who's bringing out Um This these measurements of spherical triangles and stuff so good on you for that. Um And I'm I'm just choking. I I'm choking nerves are getting the better of me and I don't have any Proficiency in presenting data on a screen or anything. I'm a common sense guy and common sense has is is telling me that um Fancy numbers fancy math. This is how people obscure truths or get confused and convince themselves things that are not real. Um and when You know, I again i'm gonna use i'm gonna have to use an anecdote because I can't present anything Present anything I have a friend in north carolina and she was standing on the beach the other day And she took a picture of an island that was 12 miles away and she was standing at this height And I could say all that and you'd be like show me the picture and I'd be like, I can't you'd be like, okay You lose so I don't really quite know where to go from here because all I have is stories and all I have is my my observations And if I I feel like if I bring anything else up without addressing This spherical triangle thing that I'm just going to be accused of changing the subject So I'll I'll leave it up to you where you want to go from here Uh, all right. Well Here's the deal Because I I guess that's the only thing that you brought up as as proof and so we don't I I limited it to one topic so that we fair enough. I didn't I didn't overflow you with other things I mean I could I could do plenty others. So Here's let let me ask you a couple things then um number one Don't use eight inches per mile squared as a way to to predict the amount hidden That's not our model that has nothing to do with mount hidden So I sent you that That formula and if you want I can send it to you again because it's it's in this chat that'll go away, right Use that one number one number two the effects of refraction have been quantified And it and it changes the arc of the of the light. It doesn't travel straight It it has a curve to the to the ray of light Right. So if you do those two things right there, you use the correct formula to predict amount hidden and then use if you can Measure the the temperature difference because the temperature is the main thing that affects the the refraction Um, but if you don't have that then you can look to find similar conditions I have cataloged many different empirical measurements of refraction on my website I've already downloaded them. I've read them. You can click and download the pdf yourself and look at what they do Here's what I would say that as as just a regular dumb guy When you say when I hear that what I'm hearing is okay, so The common model that everyone googles is wrong. Here's a special model Here's a special uh formula that you have to use and before to work You also have to add these two other factors in which can change and are kind of variables You got to keep track of them So it's not a hundred percent But it's not a hundred percent science and figuring it out because you add in these variables But the end result is a global model that is a hundred percent and that doesn't make any sense to me. That's not good enough So so You want a hundred percent accuracy. Uh, yeah Yeah, there's no such thing where we are. There's no such thing as a hundred percent accuracy If we're on it's not no, no, let me talk right now This ruler is not a hundred percent accurate Right, it it goes down to the millimeter when you measure using this ruler You are plus and minus one half of a millimeter at least in your margin of error every measurement has a margin of error You're never But if it was never Hold on You're never 100 percent in any measurement ever So if you're expecting a hundred percent you say oh, it's not a hundred percent That's because you don't understand how to measure things You don't understand how to actually do the to control the conflating variables, right? I don't care That you're like, oh, it's hard for me to figure out Right, that's science. That's being precise about what you do You do need to take these into account and if you don't like it I don't care It just shows that you're not interested in finding out the truth You're only interested in confirming your bias That's so ironic. Um, all I do is challenge my biases. That's why I'm sitting here Otherwise, I could just be a happy glober and go about my business and not have to worry about it at all Then why do you use the wrong formula? Why do you refuse to use reflection? I'm using a wrong formula according to you who I just met today And I haven't had any time to look into any of your claims that you've made today But you've been at this for five years and you're still using the wrong formula. You're not paying attention Well, again, I'm using what you claim to be the wrong formula I can I can show you the derivation of the formula I gave you you don't even know what a derivation is When it comes to whether or not it should be a hundred percent if we're claiming that this is the thing that we live on We should definitely know a hundred percent or pretty darn close to it and We don't Yet you can't provide one thing I like you coming back to that, don't you? You're making claims and you have no evidence. I made a claim. I presented the evidence You presented it. You didn't you didn't even show up to the race Yeah, I told you at the beginning I didn't show up to the race. I showed up at the last second with no preparation And we were gonna have a discussion about common sense. So Uh, I don't know. I don't I don't tell you man.  I don't know. No, that's not that's not me. I don't I don't I don't say you have to do it yourself Right, we stand on the shoulders of giants when we do science right when apple designed this when apple designed this phone When apple designed this phone, they didn't go and refigure out how to make a solid state transistor They use the information and the knowledge that other people used to figure out how to make a solid state transistor I can't advance that science I have no idea which parts of the iphone apple innovated themselves or which parts that they co-opted from others who have already done it So I don't know where you're going with that claim or that example. Um, but I've never lost my train of thought again This is harder than it looks when you watch it on youtube One thing that is fascinating that I think oh my gosh Pardon my audio folks. It's Up and down, but I do want to ask as people usually get a kick out of a question. So I'll toss it to you guys the question of Is there a good reason to believe that there would be kind of this grand world cover-up Such that all the governments were in on it in terms of covering up the the Flat earth and instead putting forth this idea that it's a globe earth That's something that's really fascinating people get a kick out of it And so to hear your guys's thoughts on that question or maybe you don't even think it's a good question That's up to you, but what are your guys's thoughts on it? I don't see Honestly, how do I want to word this? Anyone who doesn't think that people with money and power Conspire with each other at their own level to maintain control over their own money and power Is this will believe me? That's just how things are. So that's that's my opinion as far as I guess what you're trying to get at Uh as that how that affects the flat or around debate is a conversation for another day But uh people in power are conspired to keep their power.  I mean people often say it's to hide land. It's to hide the creator. It's to whatever but just in general saying We want to not let some people know some critical fact about things doesn't really Convince it isn't very convincing as to why they would want to do that Why wouldn't they lie about something else? Well, why lying about something that doesn't matter if it doesn't matter? The number of people The number of people that have to be in on it is ridiculously huge Because because all of the people that measure these spherical triangles have to be in on it because spherical triangles are impossible on a flat surface So every surveyor that did this participated in every survey that outputted spherical triangles, which is every big survey every primary triangulation of any country or surface of the world has All of the people that are involved in it have to be Hiding something somehow because they would see the spherical triangles Or they would see the not I'm not I'm not done. I'm not done talking. All right. They would see. Oh these triangles add to 180 degrees But we need to somehow fake them adding to more than 180 degrees and then Because all of the other measurements in this survey would be affected by that We need to include all of that in this complicated math thing So how did how were they in on it? Well, okay, so in the spherical triangle Uh measurements that they're doing they don't have to be in on it They're already looking for numbers that they're expecting to see just like pilots aren't trying to hide the fact that explain how somebody measuring With a theodolite the angle between two points Sure, and the angle between two points and the angle between two points coming up to 180 degrees and then saying Oh, I I was expecting more therefore. I will Do something well what I'd like to know is how Um geodetic surveyors, which I I imagine if they're measuring distances of 100 kilometers for more of their geodetic And not planar service surveyors. Would that be a correct assumption? At the time there was no distinction For the most part how long ago was this then? These go back to the 1700s Those examples particular the particular one that I showed you was published in 1901 Okay, so when it comes to surveying we can agree there are two types planar and geodetic surveying and that Geodetic surveying has done it distances of 100 miles or greater Or no, it's planar that's done at 100 miles or greater and geodetic that's done to 100 miles or less Am I getting that correct? You're backwards on that Okay, so which one is geodetic that's 100 miles or less and planar that's 100 miles or more backwards Okay, planar 100 miles or less So and they're planar then the example that you're using is an example planar surveying since the 100 kilometers Or less correct. No in 1901 That this distinction was a planar or not the distances that they were using then Is equivalent to what we now refer to as planar No, the survey began on the east coast of the united states and ended on the west coast of the united states That's much more than 100 kilometers It's the entire width of the united states Each individual example as you provided six or eight examples of spherical triangles that is measured one in texas one over here one over there Each of those you said that the distances On each side of the triangle where 100 kilometers give or take somewhere less some more depending on terrain. Here's the deal I don't want to I don't want to embarrass you You don't understand the surveying. You don't understand Which one is which way? Maybe that's not your topic. No, my point is is that If the triangle that they're measuring at 100 kilometers on each side of the triangle give or take a kilometer It's actually the area of the triangle that they talk about The fact is and planar surveyors are taught to treat the earth as a flat surface for the first 100 miles Yeah, and my point and and what does it say in the in the next sentence about planar surveyors? It says They can't do bigger ones because the the spherical nature of the earth introduces too much error into their measurements And so how are they able if they're treating an area of 100 miles or less a flat square able to measure for curvature in a spherical triangle? They they are not planar surveyors. They are not doing planar surveying techniques to do this particular prime primary triangulation across the united states These aren't planar surveyors The entire survey is the thing that to talk about right? So if you do an entire survey and the entire survey covers a certain amount less Than an area then that entire survey can done be done Using strictly planar techniques because the margin of error is acceptable But if the entire survey is over that which this one definitely is because it's the entire width of the united states Then you cannot use those techniques. The errors are too large Okay, you just you just confused me again. You said the survey was done over the width of the united states, but it was at Seven or eight different locations. So are they adding hundreds and hundreds of locations? I was using just the ones you listed. You said here's seven or eight examples I just keep going back to that screen that you shared earlier If you know, I don't know if you want to keep getting myopic about the details of that I'm just referring back to this that page that you show that was six or seven examples One was in texas one was in new york Um because i'm going off of memory again, um So again, you're you're saying that these surveys were done in different areas But that the result of the survey was the entire width of the united states So i'm not sure which is it. Are you taking surveys in new york, texas, chicago, california And then adding those all up to get the width of the united states Or are they claiming that they have three points to either end, you know, opposite ends of the contiguous united states Because you're not being clear on that They did one giant survey across the united states along the 38th parallel With just three points? No hundreds and hundreds of points And so that's where i'm saying that the standards of using Approaching surveying at 100 miles or less is treated as a flat surface Like I said That was not a distinction that they were using back then It doesn't matter if they were using it back then we acknowledge it now So they were still subject to both rules when they did the measure Whether they knew about it or not or whether that was all Yeah, so I guess I guess this is just your deflection to to to try to not address That they actually measured triangles that were more than 180 degrees That's how you want to look at it. Yeah, i'm just asking you this I'm asking for further clarification of how this actually works and you're not really able to Make that clear for me if this isn't accessible to the I don't care if it's that There there is no necessity There's no necessity for a lay person to understand how to measure the shape of the earth for the shape of the earth To be properly measured right if you don't understand it that doesn't make it flat that makes it that you don't understand Well, it may mean that i'm confused in this particular issue I agree And i'm not going to deny that spherical trigonometry is not my thing. I'm a regular guy in our surveying. It's not my thing I'm a regular guy Cosines trigonometry and physics are not my thing. I'm a regular guy Regular guys understand physics. It's it's no defense. That's no defense, right? If you're going to be claiming certain things you need to be able to actually explore them, right? And if you get to the point where like well, I can't understand these things So therefore I will ignore them Does it work? I didn't say ignored it. You've presented me things tonight that I hadn't Heard or seen presented before which I find is really interesting That you knew that it was a guy coming on that had no experience and you brought stuff that was just you know Uh on a on a level that you knew I was not prepared for so it seems kind of unfair To begin with but it's whatever I tell you why I'll go back to Yeah, that's fine. I'll go back to basics. How about that? Sure We don't have too much more time before we do we go into the Q&A is You know, I hear that you and I haven't really heard you prove a globe yet I've heard you prove what you claim is radius, but I don't actually actually did um I don't see how that proves a globe that I I know that you don't understand. That's fine. So all right I will present that's very belittling the way that you say that's very dismissive All right, so here we go dwayne kellum a flat earther A flat earther dwayne kellum sent a balloon uh balloon up. It was his 24th balloon that he sent up Now he documented the particular camera and lens that he used to use the sony fe 50 millimeter 1.8 lens that lens Has been quantified to know how much refraction not refraction how much barrel distortion is in it right here you can see From from the website that quantified the amount of barrel distortion how much barrel distortion It is not observable There's not there there's the the barrel distortion of that lens is so minuscule that you can't see it at all So this guy managed to get the first picture curvature, huh? No, no, it's one of many so You know, I'll I'll just continue my presentation here. All right here it is From 117,431 feet Using that lens that does not introduce Barrel distortion. Here's the photograph right now. I added this particular line across it On the left side we can see it's right next to the horizon on the right side. It's right next to the horizon in the middle There's a gap between the line and the horizon it is curved This is factually curved using a lens that does not introduce distortion On my website, how do we complete that circle? If it's curved that way then It must keep going off the side of each Uh each side of that image. So how do you complete the circle on that? That's not how that's not how it actually works exactly. So what does no no no that that so when when you When you move the lens to the side The center of the lens versus the sides of the lens on the surface on a curved surface Will curve down. It's it's not like if you keep going it should keep dipping. That's not how it works So it seems you misunderstand. Where does that curvature? Where does the curvature in that image lead to then? It leads to a curved surface of the earth What what else do you want? They're like show me the curve. I showed you the curve and you're like, I don't understand the curve I don't understand how I'm asking you to finish that curve. Like where does that go and must keep going down? You're like, no, that's not how it works That's how it has to work. No, it worked that way again.  I never said geometry Okay, well, that's a curved horizon. What do you got to say to that? huh that pixelated Thing that you just showed you can't explain to me where the rest of that curve goes If it's curving down on the edges Keep curving Yeah, it's out of frame Right, so we move the camera over And the curve that was on the edge should now be in the middle and the curve should keep going down Oh my gosh Yeah, how does that not even track with you because you don't understand how Wow, even even glovers will say that No, that's not how it works. That's how it works. 117,000 feet 117,000 feet Neil deGrasse Tyson, are you gonna straw man? He is Neil deGrasse Tyson here. Well, let's hear a chance to respond Oh, he's not here. Okay. All right. Just hear response. If he's here, you could address him Okay, but he's not you said bring up specific example I do and you interrupt me in the middle of my sentence and you think that's You're strong. Okay. Hate to do this. I am pausing this So just in the world straw man I'm muting both of you just to restore order. So Appreciate both of you guys. By the way, folks, they're both linked in the description or at least mc tune is and Ryan doesn't have a channel at the moment. However, we will jump into those tumor intervals for this last little bit Before we go into the q&a. So gentlemen, the floor is all yours Uh, what we could do is mc tune. Let's see. Did you feel like I'm just gonna flip a coin mc tune your heads and it came up heads. So mc tune go ahead You can go over two minutes and then we will go over to Ryan for two minutes and ryan I know that you said you had a short amount of time that you can be here. So what we can do is Okay, so what we can do is we'll give you each two minutes to wrap up Draw together the threads from this debate and then we will jump into the q&a All right, it sounds like you want to see a 360 degree camera With zero lens distortion doesn't exist You also talked about you you're gonna quote neil the grass tyson who says the earth is a globe Fine quote him. You get all of it though. He says the earth is a globe. Would you see With your naked eye I don't know But I can see it with the camera when I draw a line across it Neal isn't here But I would love to have a conversation with him and and go over what he meant when he said that and I would call him out Because I don't think that he specifically described the situation well enough, but I don't care. He's not here I showed you a picture of kerf Gotcha, thank you very much mc tune We'll go ahead with ryan for that last two minutes or so and then we'll go into the q&a By the way, folks, I want to let you know We because we only have ryan for a limited time and he's been a really good sport folks I want to let you know that ryan there was a miscommunication such that We were glad that he is here at all because he bent over backwards to make this work with his schedule So we only have him for a short bit and by the way mc tune also bent over backwards to make it work with his schedule So we appreciate that on both debaters But I want to let you know we probably can't fit in any more new questions that come in because we only have About 20 minutes for the q&a. So go ahead ryan and then we'll jump into the q&a Sure, I guess I really don't have much in closing statements because it would probably involve bringing up new information Rather than addressing what we've been dealing with tonight, which um, you know Not doing well on oh my goodness. My first two two debate. I didn't do well and I'm shocked shocked. I tell you uh, so um, I would say that uh, I'll give the match to mc because I was not Prepared ahead of time or during um and would look forward to another debate where I could actually have Some facts figures and if I learned how to do a screen share between now and then I would definitely come back with uh, some other things and have a more Cohesive and comprehensive opening statements that I had some points to fall back on You got my closing statement. Uh, and as far as that picture of curvature goes, it's just again Uh, it was such a poor explanation of why and how that curvature would would would show up on the edges of the The image, but if you were to move that image, it would be a sort of ridiculous time We are going to jump into This q and a want to let you know folks as mentioned, we're going to try to read through these as fast as possible We appreciate them and also want to let you know folks next week namely Monday T jump and demon mama are going to debate De-platform or debate controversial issues. That's what they'll be debating over And so you don't want to miss it folks hit that subscribe button and that notification bell So you don't miss it as well as many other juicy debates coming up So this first one coming in do appreciate it. Nephilim free is here and says if the earth were If the earth were flat gravity would cause things to become lighter as they move from the center out toward its edge Obviously, this is not so Are we responding to you? You're just oh, yeah, that's so yeah Some of them are in the form of comments. And so we do give you a chance to respond though Oh, okay, so he's assuming it. Well that that's commenters assuming that gravity the theory would still be in effect on a flat earth Model, which again, I said there is no model for for either the globe or the flat earth that's uh, that explains all of their measurements or anything but To in to insert gravity into anything that would even be claimed as a flat earth model is to not understand The differences between the model and that that's apples and oranges uh, that would be like Bring gravity into uh, a flat earth model would be like a an american football player going to play uh, european football and thinking the same rules still applied and it was just the color of the ball was different and they're completely different sports, so Gotcha, yeah, if you believed in gravity, uh, Then yeah, if you took gravity from a globe model and brought it over to a flat earth Yeah, you'd run into problems because uh, you're mixing things that don't mix and uh, gravity the theory it's never been proven Gotcha, this one coming in from syed amad. Thank you very much says That was a rubik's cube worth opening statement I think that was for you mc tune Here it is. He is the rubik's cube man and con Connell x silver first says eight inches per mile squared doesn't give you a globe It gives you a parabola. This is why people who understand Let's see. This is why the math shows That flat earth is wrong. I'll give you a chance to respond to that ryan Yeah, I've heard that argument before and I say again, um It measures the parabola yeah, because the eight inches per mile squared is designed to measure distance for 100 miles or less And if you connected parabolas at 100 miles at a time It would eventually make a circle a segment of a circle is a parabola. So that's that doesn't that's a They haven't thought through that argument yet Gotcha, this juicy one coming in from connell x silver for again says quote. I am a skeptic Equals I believe in flat earth But they say they're accusing you of this ryan They say if you say you're a globe skeptic, it means that you're saying I believe in flat earth But I don't want to try to prove my beliefs via evidence and they say this is a nathan oakley impression What are your thoughts on this ryan? I don't know who nathan oakley is. Is he charming? He says I'm a globe skeptic He says I'm a globe skeptic. So that means I how does read that again, please He says that means that he says that means that you believe in flat earth, but don't want to try to prove it via Evidence for a flatter to me. That's just an incredibly closed-minded comments Just because i'm questioning one thing doesn't mean I have to fully understand the other To have doubt in one is not to completely Claim to understand the other it's The problem is with the globe They're the ones their model their globe model led me to question their model It wasn't the other way I didn't wake up and want to start looking into this, you know what I mean? So people say oh well if you don't you know if you uh, how did he word that he He wants to be a globe skeptic because he doesn't want to because he just wants to believe in flatter Again, I never claimed to believe in anything I just came to question things and so just because i'm questioning one thing does not mean I have to religiously Align myself with the other questioning is questioning So you'd say that similar to an atheist lacking belief you're an aglober. Is that so you're not actually a flat earth here? Yeah, I do not call myself a flat earth earther. I think that that term is almost uh Denigrating it already preloads the conversation, you know before you even get to having a conversation I have issues with the globe that that have not been answered for me Nor do I see them being answered and so I'm not going to say I used to say with confidence that I lived on a magic spinning flying Tilted wobbling lava water space pair that hurdles through a vacuum void adjacent to low pressure system with a high pressure environment as it flies around a zero gravity Hydrogen ball that is able to combust in the vacuum I used to believe that and just go about my day. I no longer believe that I don't believe in anything anymore Now I question things when I started questioning the globe It it was about questioning not about believing And I all of a sudden had questions I had never asked before that We're not able to be answered and so that's on the globe Like if if if the globe is a jealous mistress Well, you you let me stray away and go look at other things and when I come back to you You don't have good answers for me. So I'm not sure where this relationship is going Gotcha this one coming in from kango 2 4 says this is entertainment But nothing about the globe is in contention ryan You only have flat earth memes they say I didn't present any memes Next up decepticons. Well, I'll give you a chance to respond further if you want it I didn't mean to rush you Sorry go say again. I didn't hear that. I think okay. That's I that's all you had got you and then In terms of responding. I didn't want to rush you decepticons forever said what shape are the other celestial bodies ryan Again, it has nothing because the license ceiling have nothing to do with the shape of the floor Gotcha, but to be to be fair.  I don't mean to press you but just to because I I know they desperately wanted As far as the planets the the things that we see in the sky Mars so we must be spherical. It doesn't make any sense to me now I so you would grant that they're spherical Uh, no, I won't grant the spherical and I will grant that they're taught that they're spherical You're like the ultra their spheres up there. You're the ultra aglobist Yeah, um Magellan says mc. Tune says you need to take into account Atmospheric lensing tachyon particles gamma rays electromagnetic electromagnetic wake Left city and down cities. I have a feeling that's okay They're being silly Yeah, well electromagnetic wake is what Nathan Thompson lied about when he was on with matty Um, and uh, he has no clue. I had him on two weeks ago and asked him to explain it and he talked about air not electromagnetism You could just phrase that that's something Nathan Thompson presented by you saying that he lied about it as an attack when he's not here to defend himself Oh, no, he lied about it. Yeah, it's it's a lie. It's a factual lie well Again, that's just uh, that's that's just a she was an unfair actor. That's just a bad actor The video is on my channel Juicy We we are gonna jump into the next one We do want to jump to this next one tim prior says and why can't you see the chicago skyline every day I think this is for you ryan It clearly is for me. Um, it's the same reason why you can't see, you know, when I live in I live You know where I live. I can't see downtown every day Because the atmosphere and the weather changes every day Next question next one coming in from endo xd says if the earth is a globe Why do flushed toilets spin in the same direction on both hemispheres of the earth? checkmate ryan Yeah, corals effect affecting toilet bowl flushes is A tourist trap at best That you go watch nobody claims that equator. It's all about the shape of the basin or the direction of the water There's jets. There's jets in toilets They they go. Yeah, they go one direction on purpose. Yeah, I don't think anyone at either side of the debate would have the toilet spinning water debate That sounds like a juicy one and tim prior says physical objects like the earth can be physically measured That's how we come up with the radius Yeah, so he's thinking that we measure the radius of the earth by measuring physical objects on earth Gotcha and this one Uh, oh, I was just gonna say gotcha and then this next question, but if you have more to say go ahead No, read it again. I'm sorry. They said Physical objects like the earth can be physically measured. That's how we come up with the radius For it. Yeah, I'm not even sure what he's saying. He didn't include any in that I think they're saying like the way we know the the length of the radius of the earth is Because physical objects like the earth can be measured physically You can measure anything. There's no measurable curvature. So I presented that I presented the measurements of it. Yeah Next up decepticons forever says mirror cats understand perspective Okay, looking for body want to remind you friendly reminder folks We were looking for attacks on the arguments not the person This is a general flat earth attack, but not so not you ryan, but dav guard. They said tune Why does elevation not matter in the trig? That's a good question It be because when they measure The actual triangles they they're just measuring azimuth angles, right? So so you can Turn the theata light up Right or down But you still get just they're still just reading the left to right azimuth angles It's more complicated than I could to really get into it Then I could do here to do justice to it to talk about the actual Curved lines of a spherical triangle versus the projection projected point above the The the point on the surface of it. It is trig. It is a bit complex, but in the end It doesn't matter. You're just measuring the left to right horizontal angles and the topography is is is Isolated out when you do that You got it and this one from mike billar says polaris for ryan polaris decreases one degree in altitude with every 111 kilometers that you go south. This is necessary and sufficient for a globe prove it wrong and you win Oh goody I win Uh polaris would move down on the horizon on a flat earth as well or on a flat plane as well as you moved away from Northern center As far as it moving down At the measurements that he said as you as you move away from the north pole Again, it's one of those things that works on both models. The problem with polaris is that with all of the expected movements We we have at least three different movements of the earth rotating spinning and orbiting And yet the stars never experience any measurable parallax and polaris is always a fixed point that can be viewed Uh night after night year after year century after century observer after observer One good example is the georgia guide stones where you could see the polaris Knife star the entire year through the hole drilled in in the stone It's completely impossible to happen on a tilted wobbling lava water space pair hurtling at half a million miles an hour Through the universe an ever-expanding universe as things move away from each other You're the one with short on time. Can I can I answer that address that? Really short and pithy. Okay mc2.net slash polaris has 150 years of measurements of the movement of polaris number one number two Yes, you would see polaris decrease in angular elevation on a flat surface But it would decrease in a tangent function. It would be an asymptote. It would never It would not do a linear decrease in size at an angular elevation as we measure If you want to respond given that the original question was targeting you Ryan I can give you the last word if you want to respond and then I've got to go to the next one Yeah, it still works on both models Next up this one coming in from holy smalls says his can either one of the debaters define or describe electromagnetic wake It it doesn't exist It is a made-up term I believe came from global busters, but Nathan repeated it Next up tim prier says so common sense tells you that you're smarter than billions of people including all of science or scientists and Only you and a small percent have figured this out ryan That's just an easy out, you know all smarter people than me must have figured this out So who am I to question them? It's the fallacy to begin with Gotcha and bubble gum gun says virgin let's see next up This is oh this goes back to our last debate They said virgin fancy math versus chad common sense what they're Referring to from the last debate if you saw our last one as a juicy one But syed Ahmad says mc tune says stop me or yeah, they said syed said mc tune Stop me if you've heard this before two people walk into a bar and mention eight inches per mile squared I've heard that before some sort of dirty joke of yours mc tune No, it's It's the the the eight inches per mile squared is is what all flat earthers use. It's the wrong formula If anybody's been around for a while, they would they should have done the actual like done your own research to find out that That's not the right formula They don't Gotcha and this one coming in from Abdullah ibn ibley says ryan.  Thank you very much for your question andrew roose. Thanks for your kind words a message for you james You're an inspiration keep doing what you're doing. That's like the nicest thing. I've probably ever heard in my life Thank you so much for your kind words seriously and so Folks who want to want to let you know we hope you're welcome. We've got more questions But hope you feel welcome whether you be flat earth or globe earth or christian atheist republican democrat You name it. We hope you feel welcome here at modern day debate. We're a neutral channel hosting debates on Juicy topics so next up connex silver fur says Quote unquote people in power conspire to keep their power They're trying to pray trying to paraphrase you ryan They say yeah some serious 10 this is a they say this is silly ryan How does living on a globe establish power for the elite namely? I think that he's saying how would they Consolidate power by pushing the idea of a globe um One way that I think of it is you know The just the nature of being human is for us too for people to ask why are we here? Uh, what is our purpose? You know, what are we here to do? I want to work. I want to be productive. This is a common Uh, you know, I don't think regardless of disposition anyone would argue with that That most people want to know why we're here and what we're here to do Um, if we don't even know where we are, you'll never know why you're there because you don't know where there is so You know if I again another way to put it is if I was trying to sell Um a bicycle if someone's trying to buy a bicycle and I owned a bakery And uh, you know for want of a vowel they came into a bakery looking for a bike and I would tell them No, you're looking for a bakery. That's where you buy bikes Go to a bike store not a bake store So if you're trying to buy a bike in a bakery, uh, you're never going to find what you're looking for because you're in the wrong place so You don't buy a bike in a bake store. You buy a bike in a bike store We all think we're in a bakery and we're in a bike store I don't know if that makes sense if that's a good analogy Juicy and this next one I guess MC is shaking his head So I guess my point is is that if you don't know where you are you can't find what you're looking for if you don't even know Where you are it's definitely, you know, does that make sense? And so that's why that's one reason why I think that it's worth hiding information like that or not necessarily hiding it, but it's during the fact and creating so much debate discussion and and uh uh detriment around it that You know people become so confused through debate Whether it's this or the myriad of other issues that humanity is faced with on a daily basis all of it is to distract and divide us And that's really the that's my takeaway from that. Sure Gotcha and this one coming in from kango24 says Ryan to quote you all you have is stories And they're saying that they're quoting you and they say exactly you're just parroting other stories Why don't you read more books or papers on this topic? Right again? He's just not paying attention. He's chair picking what I said when I said all I have is stories He's he's ignoring the part where I said I'm unprepared I'm unfamiliar with this and all I have today Are stories and I don't have pictures to back up I could just tell you a story about my friend who took this picture Or tell you a story about a thing that I did with my camera but without that stuff to show It's just a story So it wasn't for me to characterize myself as saying that I'm someone who just believes in stories Only to characterize today's particular example of all I have today are stories So he's just either intentionally or or unintentionally misunderstanding Gotcha and this one coming in from cana Wanabas says if you start by using spherical trigonometry, aren't you assuming it is a sphere? Also, thanks james. I have to say thanks to the speakers. They're the lifeblood of the channel So we can't thank them enough, but go ahead mc. Tune if you'd like to give a response No, it is it is not assuming because the first thing I did Was identified that the triangles had a spherical excess So that right there. I already established The spherical nature of it But it left the question of whether the sphere is a consistent sphere Or if it is a widely varying sphere So then you then you plug it into the spherical trigonometry to find out whether or not all of the triangles are consistent Or if they vary wildly and they are very consistent Gotcha and this one coming in from Mike billard says mc. Tune if the earth is a Dodd Hedron or whatever Hedron. Thank you so much. They said if it is that then How do you explain a borg cube? boom Mike uppity I've got I don't know. I've got the kuberth shirt here going so i'm i'm all i'm all in with the borg kuberth Let's go. That's hot. Thank you very much and it's hot That's right a bubble gum gun says if earth isn't flat Why is my grill flat? Hashtag roasted I don't know what that means, but tim prior thinks it's hard to argue. It's hard to argue that. Yeah, yeah Tim prior says to dumb it down That would be like saying you believe one plus one equals two because somebody told you and you're just Let's see not able to figure it out If that's true or not I don't know who that refers to but I think it's for you ryan, but i'm trying to Remember the context that it's referring to I don't like he's referring to when I was talking about how I was not Up to speed on the material that mc was presenting and he's equating that with not knowing that one to 20 plus two That's what it's not like to me. I don't know Gotcha sparky. We got just several more questions sparky nj says mc tune did you take Dement city into account for your evidence Dement city is a word I made up this week on accident And no, I did not take Dement City into account It's not something I typically do but I will definitely try to take it into account. I like it. I I accidentally merged density and Demented So that's what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome Dement city twin word for juicy and this one coming in from Mike bill ars says who's the absolute? Okay, I'm sorry. I have to read this Who's the absolute hottie in the lower left corner? Oh, you paid somebody to say that. I will pay you back. Mike. Thank you, buddy. I appreciate that. Keep them coming I'll just keep paying you but tim prior says if you have not heard or seen these things before then Maybe you should stop using youtube videos to get your information, ryan They say if you don't understand basic physics, then you should not be arguing the shape of the earth Yeah, he's just I know he's that's that's just you know, a regular youtuber assuming that's the only thing I do is watch youtube videos.  Well, I've done in the past five years that I didn't know about it I would use to youtube to research how to how to do what I wanted to do So It's youtube is a useful tool for everyone when they want to use it and it's a useful skate boat when they want to shoot It's great. It's great for for fixing your car I've done so much on my car through youtube. So that's it's a tool It's a resource that can be used by anybody with a discerning mind So if you want to learn how to fix your car or you want to, you know The point anybody who watches anything on youtube without, you know, double check any quality youtube video is going to have Sources linked in the description for you to double check their information Whether it's in a global debate a flatter debate or changing an alternator They're going to give you links in the description to backup and verify their claims and that's you know, that's on the viewer to do that work Very juicy indeed and that's this next one here. Yeah YouTube isn't research. That's just a lazy answer This one coming in from area 85 restoration says My standard question. I work at a rocket launch in a test site as an engineer How is it possible that I'm quote unquote being lied to or that I am part of the conspiracy? So I think maybe this is eluding the idea that both as an everyone would have to be on on a thing. Yeah so He's an engineer that works for a company that pays him to engineer things and then they launch it into the ocean And he never sees where it lands. He gets paid. He feeds his family. He works hard and there's nothing wrong with that He gets paid to make widgets and fire him into the ocean. That's fine. It's a feed his family. That's great Gotcha this Next one comes in any conspiracy to be an engineer. Do I get a If you'd like to address that if you'd like a pithy response, I can give you one mc tune Yes, they don't just make it and then don't pay attention anymore They interface with the devices that they created and put on the the rocket for days and years After it's been launched. So somebody either has to be they either have to be in on it Or somebody has to be intentionally faking the data that they're interacting with Gotcha, those are two possibilities Next one This one coming in from do appreciate it. Larry cloys the last question says james watching old debates. I learned I am majoring What you did Oh That is really cool. Thank you for letting me know that larry and I hope you enjoy it Feel free to email me at modern a debate at gmail.com and that goes for anybody folks We really do appreciate you hanging out here. If you have a hard day. You want somebody uh You know like talk to something like that if there's a way to we can make your day better Please let me know we really do appreciate you hanging out here and we want to say it's hard for us to thank the guests enough Namely mc tune and ryan have been great sports with their schedule tonight. I honestly can't thank them enough Like really, thank you mc tune and ryan just for hanging in there in terms of the schedule That we had and being willing to still make it tonight And just how much of a challenge that was and we do appreciate you so much In fact, somebody I think fired in a super chat that said that no joke I think they said thank ryan and mc tune for doing that and so do want to say thank you mc tune and ryan Yeah, thanks for having us you go ahead go ahead. I appreciate you have me and here's my guy coming to remind me that it's dinnertime You've got it. So i'll be back with a post credits. Hey, you're gonna feed me. It's about that time That's mc tune will gladly feed you and so we as I what you said, I just I meant the dog kind of to remind me that it's dinnertime.  I need food Thank you I got you. Okay, but yeah, I will be back folks with a post credit scene in just a moment So stick around but thank you mc tune and ryan. It's been a true pleasure. Thanks a lot great Thanks for having me and I will see you next time 100% thank you All right. Bye. Bye Folks, I am absolutely pumped. I am thrilled want to let you know you guys I am so excited first. That was an epic debate. We really do appreciate the debaters We cannot say it enough how much we do appreciate them and so you guys I have to let you know about several Awesome upcoming debates things that we were really excited about tomorrow. We're going to have super popular podcaster david c. Smalley and Our dearest friend stewart nettle They will be debating Namely the idea that you could say divine hiddenness Is this idea that if there is like so you could say that let's say the theist grants that there's no evidence for god Is that a problem for theism? So that'll be a juicy debate. You don't want to miss that's tomorrow So hit that subscribe button and that notification bell if you haven't already and you must love debates because hey You've been here for quite a while folks. It's been about an hour and a half and that was a really fun one I really just can't thank the guests enough for that And so we also want to do some greeting of my dear friends glad to have you here in the chat Thanks for hanging out with us and so folks. I don't know if you know it But we do have a twitch I'm going to mention that right now and I'm also going to throw that in the live chat right now Our twitch is linked right now In the live chat so you can click on that and I will pin that to the top of the chat And we want to welcome you to check out our twitch. There's a lot of people like hey Yeah, I saw you like that. I enjoy that and so we hope that it's useful to you and also want to let you know That's pinned at the top of the chat But saying hello to you just want to greet you and say thanks for being with us ozzy in to pazzle and sephron and Also, we got in the old twitch chat. Good to see you all miz metal Glad you made it and I've made you a mod on youtube miz metal Thanks for reminding me and brooks barrel. Good to see you as well as nicholas Of house strode. Thanks for coming by We are stoked to have you here in the old twitch chat And thanks ozzy in who shared our indy go-go link in the twitch chat And I will share that in the youtube chat now if you guys have not heard you guys this debate This one right here that i'm pointing to bottom right of your screen between matt dillahunty and dr. Kenny Rhodes and whether or not there is good evidence for god You don't want to miss it folks. It is going to be absolutely epic.  I've enjoyed this channel. It's been a fun time And I'd like to keep seeing bigger and more epic debates want to invite you to join us In giving to the crowd fund that we are using to raise funds for the guests honorariums Is this is going to be high profile big time debate Dr. Kenny rose is a respected scholar and apologist and he's also partly on staff with reasons to believe a international ministry which is a you could say apologetics ministry But interestingly they're an interesting one because they have nothing but I think pretty much almost all of their staff are like Scientists and they have their phd in one thing or another and so long story short That's going to be epic as Kenny rose will be taking on matt dillahunty and that's in 21 days folks It is crazy. So we only have 21 days to Raise the funds for this event and it's going to be free for the public So I want to let you know like You can watch it on modern day debate as of right now what we have planned is You can just hang out at the watch page and then yeah, it'll be streamed live there and believe me It's going to be great and I want to let you know though We are shooting for our goal and we have been climbing rapidly Which is super encouraging folks that the fund raiser has been going really well I am so encouraged that as you see on the far right of your screen That's our fundraising meter our goal is we bumped it from last time it was 2500 now It's 3500 and then next time. We'll actually bump it to getting even more high profile debaters No joke our next debate we plan on it being late this summer. We're hoping it'll be denesh desuza and bosh So like that's the kind of debate and that's not confirmed yet So but it gives you an idea like how epic we're shooting for in terms of getting guests like denesh desuza Maybe richard dockins Those are the kind of guests we're shooting for for real And so that's a way that you can support this channel that really does go a long way as we really do appreciate that So folks if you see elbert bitcoin being timed out in the chat, don't worry It's because elbert bitcoin is a bot. So the moderators are not actually abusing anybody elbert bitcoin is not a real person I'm sorry elbert to say that but elbert is a bot So just in case you're seeing that in the chat right now But do want to say Let me give you just some of the info about this crowdfund because you might be new to it And maybe you're like what is a crowdfunded? What is indiegogo? That's the link for our crowdfund, which I will put in the chat right now the crowd fund link Okay, I just threw that in the chat and I want to tell you about it in particular as you see on the far right of your screen We're close to 50% you guys Believe me We're going to make this goal and we need to make this goal for the debate to happen And so I am determined I don't care if me and t jump have to get out there and do a car wash in the rain This debate is going to happen folks. And so let me show you some of the details about it. You see on screen The title is is there good evidence for god and If you have never been a part of a crowdfund, I want to let you know It's a really fun thing to get to be a part of I actually got to do You could say be a part of crowdfunding where I jumped in on somebody else's last It was in the winter when we did ours because it's like, oh, it's kind of cool And so if you haven't done it before it is kind of a neat thing that the internet allows us to do But let me show you some of the other details because you might be like well james I don't know like are you guys sure that you know like how to do this because I mean What if you you know, what if you do it? But you fail? Believe me, we've already had success doing this look on screen on the bottom right of your screen For the last one we had 143 people jump in on the crowdfund People who were like, hey, you know what? This is going to be epic We want to see this debate happen and we had michael schermer and mike jones debate whether or not Christianity is dangerous And We raised in that one as you can see on the bottom right of your screen. It circled there 143 backers combined raised 3141 so close to our goal for this one because we actually exceeded our goal last time And I have a feeling we're going to do that this time because we're so far ahead of schedule in terms of the fund raising Which is absolutely? Encouraging so that's really cool. But also Maybe you're like, well, okay james. That's interesting But maybe it's hard to like sign in or something like that you guys folks if you click on the link that is Right now. I'm going to put this at the very top of the chat crowd fund I'm going to pin it to the top of the chat if you Click on this crowdfund link that is pinned at the top of the chat or that is in the description Want to let you know It's so easy to log in folks really all you have to do is this You can even sign in with facebook. You don't even have to give them your email Or password or anything like that if you want you can just sign in through facebook It's a breeze easy peasy folks. I mean that's awesome And not only that If you want you're like, no, actually, I don't even have a facebook I'd rather just use my email you can do that too I mean, it's pretty easy though Which is nice is that they make it convenient you could say and there are a lot of added perks this time So you guys On screen some of these perks we've had before so for example your name on screen That one is you can see at the very top, but maybe you're like, you know james That's cool, but I kind of want to maybe do like a smaller perk What do you have for smaller perks? Well, let me scroll up just a bit here and I'll show you so You can just help this Help ensure that this debate happens. That's only just three bucks I mean that's the price of a cup of coffee folks really so that's convenient And then the next here is help us make this event huge that just adds a few dollars is we're basically trying to get Out ads on youtube to make this really big So the next one is your name on screen So that's in the ticker at the bottom of the screen during the debate So that way we can basically thank you and get to honor you by putting your name there And also though check these other ones out your name read out loud is the next tier that you see there And then scrolling a little bit further You can receive an embossed modern day debate postcard And it's not on here yet because I've got to update the picture But you can actually get a modern day debate Mug like a coffee mug if you're like me you love coffee And so if you want a modern day debate coffee mug check out that indiegogo link You can see it there as we're excited that that's a new perk We just added the other day and then next up modern day debate t-shirt That's another cool one I have my own modern day debate t-shirt as well as modern day debate hoodie Epic absolutely helps keep you warm and zoom chat with james for an hour And that's something that if you want you want to record it and put it on your own channel or something like that Like an interview or even like maybe a Short like little mini debate kind of deal that could work And so whatever's useful to you but also meet and greet with the guests Really cool folks is that the meet and the greet with the guests is 20 minutes before it starts You can jump into the zoom chat, which is just really cool Basically because you can greet the debaters as well as Want to let you know i'll be there so you know you'll know somebody you could say but There are a lot of cool perks So we want to encourage you to check those out folks as we are absolutely pumped for this debate to happen With dr. Kenny rose and matt dill huntie and folks That's the thing is we want to really honor and say thank you to our guests We Really appreciate their preparation and both dr. Kenny rose and matt are preparing hard for this debate They put their effort into this and I mean we also by the way not only that but Matt If you look at our views on youtube about a quarter of them are from matt dill huntie debates No joke And so we really do appreciate matt and this is our way of showing that appreciation format And that this honorarium is a way that we can say hey, we really do appreciate you You've helped us a lot as we really do appreciate that modern day debate has roamed To a significant degree from those matt dill huntie debates a lot of people have heard about us Through those matt dill huntie debates. So we really do appreciate matt And let's see here Scrolling through the old chat. I'm catching up with you folks be patient with me Alex stein thinks your super chat says what brand of hair gel does mc tune use 99 rules I don't know if that's the kind but I can ask him and 99 rules doesn't sound like a shampoo man, but I think he's up to using him. I think that's his cool phrase but yes Good to see you, alex and keith newton. Thanks for saying hi. I said one of the better debates I've seen here lately. Thanks. Thanks keith for your kind words. That's super encouraging. We appreciate your positivity seriously We really do appreciate people's positivity that means a lot and brian griffin good to see you says What's up, james? How are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm excited, man. I am so excited about the future of you guys Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely focused on this next debate. I'm pumped about it, but I have to let you know This style this strategy that I was just talking about Sorry, this is the last thing I promise Is it allows us to take bigger risks? And that's why I'm very serious like this this fall like I seriously we really do want to do something like maybe An example could be dr. Fuzerana versus richard dockins on universal common ancestry That would be Unreal like that would be epic and that's something where like we actually would be like, hey We'll reach out to richard dockins and say, hey, what would you be requiring? And if it's something we could reasonably raise in a crowdfund That's like the next goal. So though that's kind of like the level though. So like dinesh to susa richard dockins type people I don't know if we're yet available to get both of those like I don't know if we crowdfund that much but Eventually we will get there. I think after we do maybe like five crowdfund events We might be able to do like dinesh to susa versus richard dockins or something But it depends on this strategy like working and so far it's worked well with you guys I mean like I said raising three grand in our first one in january Everybody said james, this is like the hardest month to do it You're doing it during the holidays because we did it all during pretty much all in december and We still everybody. Thank you guys. I want to say thank you so much for all of those who have supported it Whether you be sharing it or giving into the actual crowdfund We do we appreciate it so much as we were pumped that we overcame together and folks We're gonna have a lot of I mean, it's true modern day debates a little bit controversial We host controversial topics controversial people. It's true. This ain't your grandma's debate channel But we are going to overcome the world and all of the challenges that they might bring We are going to prevail and keep doing epic stuff and so Sideshow nav says don't forget discord and I do agree folks We are really thankful for let's farm as well as platium math pig And others who've made the discord epic that is linked in the description And i'll pull that up in a second and throw it in the chat as well as uh, I've already thrown in the crowdfund link and The twitch link and so we really do hope that you enjoy these debates Andrew Kroll says james not quite the dumpster fire. I was looking for but different is good And that's what we're working on. We are refreshing things right now folks We want to make things different and so We are excited to let you know We've got a lot of new topics coming up a lot of new guests coming up and a lot of new formats coming up as well We're excited about that folks. So for example, we've got a brand new topic. We've never had Tomorrow that will be really fun. You don't want to miss that But we're also excited that like we said we'll have some of our three on three debates happening We'll have some of these more panel type discussion dialogues Happening we've got a dialogue scheduled a week from now Which is going to be christian versus pagan versus pantheist versus atheist So four people will be on this panel panel Jenna belk will be one way the way we're pumped about that k-fellows will be another We're pumped about that as well as a new fellow Derek I think it's his name. It's so hard to remember. Sorry Derek and then jennifer. So that's going to be a really good one Folks, we're excited. We're bringing in new faces new topics to keep this channel enjoyable And so thank you guys so much for all of your support. We are excited about the future Big things are happening here. Believe me folks We're we're just going to keep doing more epic stuff and it's all thanks to you guys You guys make this channel fun. You guys have given so many great debates and sometimes people are like, hey james I don't know if you know about this big name person who likes to debate You should have them on the channel and I was like who and they're like, I've seen them debate before so Um, I already sometimes I have people who are like, I already reached out to them And they said they're willing to come on modern day debate And I'm like you serious and they're like, yeah, I'm serious and I'm like that would be epic So you guys in a billion different ways. I want to say thank you so much for all your support Thanks for all your Your likes and shares all that stuff you guys. I just hope you know how much we appreciate you This is a melting pot of different people from different walks of life. And so we do appreciate you being with us I'm gonna say hi more. Hi to more people in the chat heat shield. Good to see you a fear. Good to see you again Albert bitcoin our famous bot. Glad you made it metal jacket. Thanks for coming by as well as be badass And platinum. Good to see you says good evening and Dave Langer. Thanks for coming by stripper liquor. Good to see you again What is truth? Thanks for coming by. Is this the first time I've seen you here? We hope you're doing well Jedi master j glad you made it and science works in mysterious ways. Good to see you again as well as youtube surgeon general Thanks for coming by Mendelbrot set. Thanks for coming by. We hope you're doing well as well as in haxt And hannah anderson. Thanks for being here and thanks for all your support and haxt and hannah anderson You being next to each other in the chat just happened to be some of the more Supportive people in the chat telling people, you know reminding them to subscribe or to like the video that we really do appreciate that really Facilitating that kind of culture and that kind of positivity. I've got to say we appreciate that so much There are a lot of you who are super positive and supportive and I just hope you know We appreciate it so much be badass. You're one of them as well Thank you so much for being so supportive. Good to see you there in the old chat. Mr. P. Good to see you Thanks for coming by as well as ozzy and thanks so much for all of your support We do appreciate it. You're a super positive supporter and we really do appreciate that Gremler good to see you metal jacket. Thanks for being here and brook chavits Thanks for your support. We really do appreciate it brook and Peter g good to see you again as well as stripper liquor Been around for a long time. You've been with us for a while, man Thanks for all of your support over the literal years Is I fox sushi good to see you. Thanks for coming by and Let's see here David bowers socks. Thanks for being with us. We hope you're doing well Appreciate you hanging out here and dank ono. Thanks for being here says vosh wants the modern day debate belt. That's funny Wait, I thought about doing something like a belt before but I don't know maybe someday But I think I think dylan is a fantastic promoter and we I owe dylan personally because he welcomed us And we really did appreciate that. We really enjoyed Dylan welcoming us something to that epic debate So I owe dylan and I appreciate dylan and bryan steven says dinesh debate and met dylan t and just wanted to talk about obama That's interesting. I haven't seen it yet, but I I know that it's out there and michael lyon. Thanks for being here says thanks for everything You do james. Thanks for we appreciate that michael lyon your support means a lot And sunday worship says free albert Thank you for being here sunday worship and kenneth mc clean thanks for coming by we appreciate you and Lily aja so glad to see you. We appreciate you and said maybe one day. Albert will be a real boy. That's true Thanks for being with us as well as robert moobly and by the way robert moobly moobly. Thanks for being with us. We appreciate you being here And lily aja congrats on your associate degree. I'm so excited for you. Congrats. And that's great news Uh, that's just tremendous. So thanks for sharing that with us. We do appreciate it It's nice to celebrate together. And so thanks for sharing that feel free folks to share your highs and lows in the chat We do appreciate what's uh, can you sharing what's going on in your life? I hope it feels like a community here We appreciate you folks. And so perfect ones has someday we are all going to be saying that we knew james one That's funny. I um, you guys are like seriously the steam of this channel you guys make it great and so thanks for all of your support and I believe that together we are going to grow and I really do believe this like i'm very serious It might take a while I mean it took joe rogan about 12 years to get where he is and you might be like oh 12 years. That's forever and it's like Yeah, it is forever But in a way life as you go just seems like it keeps moving faster And so i'm telling you folks right now. What are we at 46,000 subscribers? It's not going to be long folks someday We are going to be probably at 40 like 460,000 subscribers and we're going to be like wow Remember when we were a little channel with 46,000 subscribers and how much we've grown The more the merrier folks were excited about having that impact on youtube and so Folks don't bet against us. Believe me. I'm crazy. I mean i'm following through with this I plan on doing modern day debate modern day debate the rest of my life like no joke. I love this channel I enjoy it. This is fun for me And if I could right now, I would yell but my mic as you know, my mic is all weird tonight So let me try to figure out I don't know what it is, but my mic is like, okay now I think I can yell a little bit more So want to let you know I've got some enthusiasm that I can put my voice now because my mic Isn't so low. So let me tell you some things in particular Mr. P. Good to see you and tim prior. Thanks for your super chat Let's see chats moving fast on me bear with me. I'm almost caught up though Tim prior said youtube is the only place flat earth exists. So that's where you got it That's true. I I don't see it often. It's uh, not out there a lot anymore But it's always a fun time and hey, you know, that's the thing a lot of times people are like James a lot of times ironically the people who are all like, oh, I'm really tolerant and open-minded and they're like But but why do you why do you host? Flat earth of beats that's so irresponsible. Like, oh, yeah, like really irresponsible. I'm sorry But I just I'm like, oh my gosh first is that a lot of these people are like, I'm so tolerant and it's like You're tolerant except you openly will say you won't allow people to have Their fair platform to make their case. I mean, hey, we're the real deal folks So when it comes to tolerance We live it out is that this channel will give everybody their fair shot to make their case on a level playing field That's the vision of moderated debate and if other people aren't willing to really walk the walk in terms of being genuinely tolerant Well, hey, that's fine. We'll do it and heat shield good to see you Let's see. Thanks for your Let's see Thanks for your support as well as As a lot of gore good to see you as well as ross thatcher Glad you're here Dave Langer. Thanks for all of your support Of this channel. You've been hugely supportive as well as well as stripper liquor. Thank you for your positivity and Brian Stevens. Thanks so much for your huge positivity regarding moderated debate You've been really kind and we do appreciate that more than, you know, I appreciate that. So thank you YouTube surgeon general says make a got soy t-shirt. We should make some soy shirts you guys That would actually be epic angel gamer says do all of the guests get honorariums like that How is the amount determined not all the guests do in fact? I would say it's a really small percent and so There are different factors in terms of determining honorariums So one to be quite honest like I'll I'll be candid. I'll give you the candid answer first one Is how many people do they bring to the channel? That's true We have a goal of wanting to grow and so we're not going to bring somebody that would just be a terrible debate or like I don't know who do you guys think would be a terrible debater that might bring Somebody like that might bring like a lot of subs like if it's like if they're a terrible debater We're like that's just stupid. We don't want to bring them on but I will say it is a factor The other thing is If they're actually a good debater, that's absolutely essential so you could say that's like more of the core reason in terms of it and Debate experience makes a big difference as well frankly A lot of debaters don't prep as much as others and that's a big deal. So Our expectation is that they're prepping hard for this debate and the debate itself is only what like two three hours And so our expectation is that if I were doing a debate I can tell you when I used to do my in-person debates in front of like hundreds of people I would prep.  Maybe 50 to 100 Somewhere in that ballpark. I put in major time not just in like prepping the speeches But reading all of the material that could possibly be relevant. And so there's a lot of factors, but Lr. Thanks for coming by says 25,000 to Dawkins for a debate James. I've asked. Oh, wow That is it's more than I expected frankly Reservative course is your channel is like shampoo in the top shelf. It's head and shoulders above all the others Thank you for your kind words. That's a good one. I like that And ding kono says can the channel crowd fund a a meg and taylor green versus alex and aoc debate I mean, that's probably going to be a lot. I think aoc would probably want to add I I have a reason I have a suspicion that because aoc hasn't debated before Um, she would be like wanting she'd be like, okay. If you really want me to debate I You can ask, um, she's not on my the top of my list because she hasn't debated before Frankly D ross good to see you glad you made it and didn't kono good to see you general ballzak glad you made it and not only that but Louis prestiato glad you made it says hi james always nice to hang. Thanks. Louis. Appreciate that. I agree And it hacks. Thank you for your positivity again. I see you there says jelly wrestling You can ask mc toon. Maybe he's into that ross thatcher says cheers james always fun on this neutral platform thank you ross and Oh, there is my boy all over cat. Well, good to see you. Thanks for your positivity and your support of the channel That means more than you know, so thank you uk p. I says I'd come on a debate How do I put my name forward if you email me at modern day debate at gmail.com? I can let you know We have criteria. I gotta let you know folks one thing we're pushing hard for Is we really do encourage people to use their camera I am not trying to be a meanie, but it is true. This is youtube and we do have a podcast That's true, which we encourage you to check out folks If you have not yet I'll do it with you Pull out your phone. Some of you are listening on your phone Uh Your favorite podcast app. Here's my podcast addict. You just okay. There it is You click it Whatever your favorite podcast app is folks. No joke. Believe me. We are on it. We're on pandora We are on amazon music. We are on audible even we're on apple podcast Spotify You name it folks. We're out there all over the place So your favorite podcast app pull it out. Look up modern day debate right now And hit that subscribe button on the podcast as we're excited you guys people have apparently found it useful The reason I say that is because I was I didn't know when I first started uploading podcasts I was like well people listen to this. I don't know. I mean we're on youtube But sure enough like on average. It's like we're close to 1400 downloads per show now Which is really that's I've read that's good. I don't know a lot about podcasts I'm still new to it But I had read that like we're actually the podcast is like doing really well in its first year And we haven't even made it to a year. I think we're at like 10 months And so we're probably going to be an average of At least somewhere in the range of 1400 to 1500 downloads per show By the time a year anniversary comes by so it's growing you guys and that's encouraging Because we want it to be useful We like we want it to be valuable and one thing people tell me they're like I listen to it while I'm cleaning the house I listen to it while I'm Was it long drives commutes? exercising even they're working their brain as they're working their body and so They love people have told me they love that it's long form content So you can just let it play and you know, it's not like a 20 minute podcast And those are good too. Don't get me wrong But they like that you can just let it play and for hours You can just be driving and so Hannah Anderson, thanks for your support says before you all leave remember Please to hit that like and subscribe and hit that notification bell as well So thanks so much. We appreciate that and angel gamer. It says sorry. I made fun of you for juicy No, it's totally cool. I knew you were teasing in a nice way. I didn't take any I didn't Think of any sort of bad intention. You're you're funny. You're kind. You have a big heart. Thank you though Trillian good to see you and And thanks for coming by as well as be badass as excited for the vegan debate. Just made vegan steaks lol That's cool. I'm excited for it too. I still have to confirm that with vegan gains just to let you know I think he will Be up for it, but it depends on his schedule So that it could be another date forgive me if it doesn't happen on tuesday. That's the goal but That I'm I asked him for that date and now I'm waiting But grumbler said stay safe. Thank you grumbler. We hope you do too and Result of gore nasty guy says james and t-jump mud wrestling in a paddling pool full of soy sauce nasty guy believe me T-jump might be into that but not this guy, but uh Poor t-jump. I've always thrown him under the bus. We love t-jump. I looked the other day You guys want to take a guess? This will be a fun game. Guess how many times t-jump has been on the channel You guys I actually looked it up the other day and you'll be blown away by how many times Brian griffin says how can we be sure you're not an advanced robot? That's a good question. Yeah, but touche and let's see Grumbler says joe rogan was a celebrity already 100k this year. That's right. The word on the streets was that j was a rogan made 100 100,000 Oh, you're saying 100k like subscribers for this channel. It's possible I certainly think we'll get to like 50 Well 50 is for I would be incredibly surprised if we didn't get 50 Maybe I think we could like probably get 60 maybe 70,000 by the end of the year Depending on what epic events we host if we do get somebody like like I said, maybe dinesh jisoo's or versus Vosh or something It could be gigantic. Uh, I I think that it's possible we get to 100k, but it's a it's a hard one now but who knows Saito nav. Thanks for being here and Let's see Ross ukpi. Thanks ukpi says love the channel james. Thanks for your positivity. Seriously. That means a lot I do appreciate you saying that and I see someone with cool They have cool symbols and they say very based james. Thank you so much for your kind words and then Thanks brooks have us for your kind words as we love you james. That means a lot. Thank you brian stevens as well Who says modern day debate is awesome. We appreciate that and Flatter day saint says james however you however you've been how have you been You still flatter me on the regular. I'm just saying though. Thanks for coming by flatter day saints for glad you made it And let's see who else brian stevens says maybe have a quote a conversation with aoc would be interesting chat would be crazy It would be interesting. It would be epic. She's on twitch, right? Um We'll see but I don't know. I I don't think she's gonna go for it But Oliver catwell says do you have an amazon wishlist where folks can donate equipment? Etc. Oh, I should come up with that. That's a good idea We're starting to get a lot together. There's a light. Uh, let me let me get back to you on that I totally appreciate that. So thank you so much for being willing to support Is we are excited about that as we We'll be looking into new cool stuff I would like to get a camera Because I'm embarrassed to say the camera that I bought and I showed you guys this one Basically some cameras. I'm embarrassed to say I didn't know this There we go I'm embarrassed to say that this camera that I bought I bought this when I was on the trip for the Matt Dillahunty versus David Wood debate This is like a legit fancy camera. Well, actually it's for me. I mean a really good camera I think people usually get like they like put like 500 dollars into it or something or a thousand This was like 330 for me though, which is huge. I was like, oh gosh And I found out it doesn't work for streaming. Isn't that terrible? I looked at all the different ways to try to figure out how I could so long story short I plan on reselling it and I will Hopefully get a camera that I think I can get an even cheaper camera That will allow us to stream like live stream through it. So the picture will be even better And so long story short. Thanks for asking and I'll get back to you on that Did Kono says t-jump has been here at least 50 times Friday Saints says 33 times. General Balzac is the closest. He says 82. Let's see who else we have Anybody else guessing let's see here Fishfrog Dolphin says 30 fear the weeper. Thanks for being with us. It says 420 all over a cat wall says or his chair. Oh, that's true. His his chair has been here just as many times Pretty much the stolen land says I want to know why I was timed out folks.  Did you time out the stolen land for real? We are becoming more strict about what the mods are able to do We want to let you know that and so moderators, please Scicho Bob who I think is in the chat is a great person to talk to about What we are up to in terms of like the moderators I should say what they're up to Is we do want to have everybody on the same page with moderating and so do want to encourage you There are these rules that Scicho Bob has Don't he's volunteered a ton of his time to write up all these rules And that's something that we want the moderators. We want to encourage them to Scicho Bob if you happen to have the If you're able to mention to us the link I want to plug the discord and put that in the description is Basically, we do have a moderated bait discord, which I will put into the Description and so let me pull that up right now I want to encourage you to check out the discord as well as moderators the the mods meet on discord regularly and I'm putting that into the Live chat right now if you didn't know we do have a discord. Did you guys not know about that? Like for real we do so if you think discord is hip I would highly encourage you to check it out gremler says t jump in his chair. Maybe 50 times on the channel Gremler said, okay. I say 49 times to jump on the channel and then Thanks platinum for encouraging those other mods and let's see YouTube surgeon general you were really here before we had 10 10 subscribers like literally 10. I was thinking that today. I remember there was for a while I was like kind of chilling at 30 subscribers for a while And it was like a plateau or is like, how do I grow? So um, that's funny though, but Renee samard. Thanks for coming by says james much vibes Sending your way brother. Thanks for saying that we appreciate that and Oliver catwell says craigslist. Yeah, I might sell it on craigslist I don't I would take it back to walmart, but they won't take back electronics after a year Oliver catwell says 154,000 close t jump has been on this channel 78 times Isn't that crazy? That is wild And so let's see flaturday saints Let's see talking smack to resawad of gore. But yeah, I want to say thank you everybody for hanging out here Let me know in the chat. What are your thoughts? What are what are the ways we can make your life better or another thing that i'm seriously pumped to get feedback on as we're trying to improve it is Lucy miller. Thanks for coming by. Lucy says hello again. We're glad you're back. Lucy. Thanks for dropping in And yeah gremler, you're right. 78 times is crazy. Isn't it funny? I can't believe it now Maybe like two or three of those. I didn't moderate maybe so, but I've here I've been here at least 70 times with t jump. So that is crazy. So funny, but yeah And stripper liquor says I can't get on discord right now. Please join my pity party. Oh, that's a bummer. Sorry to hear that I don't folks. I am like working on learning how to get into discord Amazing all over cat wall says and it is it is very amazing And we want to let you know though folks. We are excited about this. Let us know are there cool perks That we could offer In the crowd fund that we're doing right now. So that is linked at the top of the chat Is there something we could add that you're like, yeah, this is actually be like a cool thing and The one challenge is we don't we don't want to rely too much on products like Teespring stuff like t-shirts. We do have a t-shirt in there already, which is cool And we have the hoodie and we've got the coffee mug But we don't want to rely too much on it because one of the challenging things is that it basically We're thinking of like other things where people don't have to Basically it adds like postage costs and we don't want that So we're thinking like one of the things a lot of people have said, hey, that's a great idea Is the meat and greet with the guest before the show. We're excited about that Maybe in the future if it's somebody with like a popular book We would ask if they'd be willing to sign like five copies for people to like receive as a perk That I think would be cool But that of course like I don't know if matt or kenny have written books I think kenny's written books, but I don't know if a lot of people would be stoked to Read them if they're not Into apologetics. So some people don't like to read apologetics. And so that's a tricky point Just like you'd be a tricky point if it's like you could say atheist apologetics, so to speak Some people would be like, I don't really get into that. So Brooke chavis says just be you james. It's all we need. Thank you, brook for your positivity And din conos suggestion when you place a timer for the debates, can you post an onscreen timer for the chat to see? Um, maybe I mean it's a lot of it's a little bit challenging Maybe it depends if it's like longer timers. I'm okay with it But if you want one for like when we do the two minute intervals, I'm a little bit like I might need a little bit more production assistance for that Resolute of course is modern day debate juice boxes. That would be cool That's funny ice cream bars Modern day debate ice cream bars would be epic like the wwe ice cream bars Then conos says suggestion when you place a timer for the oh, we got that be badass So what are you looking more for then? So, yeah, so one example is like stuff that's like more closely tied to the debaters Where for example, like I said if it's a signed book What else could they theoretically sign? Maybe like if both would be willing to sign something Uh, you've gotta kind of think about that. Resolute of course is modern day debate ringtones. That's funny Let's see Modern day fox fox sushi says modern day debate edibles pre-rolls, etc. Hook it up Pre-rolls, what are pre-rolls like? I don't know what you mean, but I want to hear more and all of our cattle says maybe a donor can have it His or her favorite quote read during the podcast within reason. That's an interesting we thought about doing that Um, like maybe like putting up their picture at the end even and we offered it as a perk last time But nobody wanted their picture up and that we can't blame them But I think it was also like really it was like a high perk that was like I don't know if you'd really feel like you were getting so we might have we might have to like lower it in terms of like Put it as like a smaller perk So Tanner for mosa says a gavel that is actually a cool idea. I really do like that. If there's a gavel we could get the modern day debate like Uh logo on seriously. That's funny. I like it actual socialist trash says why do I always miss the debate? I don't know But your debate I am currently setting up and it should be a juicy One actual socialist socialist trash. I'm waiting on your potential partner And or actually I'm waiting on not your partner. I think it was one of your opponents Michael lion says you'd have you should have eric dubai for fighter. I can get him on Okay, I'm serious. Michael if you can get him on I'm willing to give it a shot So Michael if you email me at modern day debate, that's how you can reach me modern day debate at gmail so kind of standard That is something that I'm open to so I am open to it if you let me know and Flatter day saint said love for you to give out free levels or rulers for measuring the curvature That's funny. Flatter day. Good to see you. Maybe some modern day debate hats and Moominrider says darn. I missed another one. Luckily I can catch it on the modern day debate podcast You can and you guys I'm excited. We have been putting out some absolutely epic debates on modern day debate Just this morning. I released the modern day debate episode of The debate on whether or not Noah's arc has already been found You guys that's a cool debate that one did really well people really enjoyed it, which is encouraging so Want to let you know Folks if you think you'd find if you'd get a kick out of that topic namely whether or not moa Noah's arc has been discovered It was a tag team debate two fellows Arguing that it had been discovered and two fellows arguing. No, we don't think Noah's arc has been found So that again is on the modern day debate podcast I just uploaded it today So it'll be at the very top of your list if you subscribe to our podcast And also though if you may be already you're like james. I already have Modern day debate on my favorite podcast app. Can you see right there? That's my modern day debate because I do sometimes try to listen to debates Later because my attention is sometimes kind of split during the debate, but long story short Please rate us then if you've already subscribed to the modern day debate podcast You can give us a rating and that definitely helps So for real we do appreciate that and I'm excited that I was pleasantly surprised a lot of ratings have been given I didn't know. I think it was like we have 54 on apple Podcasts so please do keep them coming. We do appreciate that support that really does mean a lot you guys And that helps us so the stolen land. I think I saw somebody in the chat the other day They were like, oh, I discovered your What is it called? They said I I discovered your They were like, I'm here for the first time during a youtube live debate After I discovered your podcast So people are now the cool thing is the podcast is growing so that We actually have some people who find the podcast first And then they're like, oh, it's like cool modern day debate a podcast and they're like, oh, they've got a youtube channel too And that's of course where we started is youtube and so I'm like, oh, that's so cool that it's like working Bidirectionally now. So we've got people finding us both ways. So that's cool And grommler thinks you're kind of where it says james you work great stay like you are much love from rich and Hyde. Oh, thanks rich and high. I appreciate that aka grommler. Thanks for your support That means a lot. Thanks for your positivity that that really is encouraging and Tanner for most good to see you. Glad you were here and then Fishrock dolphin says, yes ringtones with james saying I'm pumped. I'm stoked Very stoked a lot of stokedness around here. You guys a lot of juiciness as well YouTube surgeon general says modern day debate collectors cards of debaters. Oh, that actually is like a cool idea That would actually be kind of fun And it would be so fun. Seriously. I just love the idea Um, let me actually like write these down because I just like it. Um Modern day debate you guys are fun. I do appreciate your ideas You guys make this channel fun. I'm telling you I'm just a guy shooting emails in the background Serious a mdd gavel a mdd debaters collectors cards set that's a really cool idea, but yeah, it's I'm just a dude sending out emails folks. I'm telling you and so thanks res lot of courses modern day debate james skins for fortnight or call of duty I don't know what that means. What do you mean skins? Michael lion says i'll email you. Thank you Michael for doing that Mr. P says james you have an excess of carrots in your diet. You look like you've got a serious beta carotene problem It's the lighting. I've got to fix it. Hopefully a new camera once we get the new camera I'm pumped that I'll get there. Um, it'll be nice Um, I do have a light a good light that has come and I'm planning on setting it up soon So I'm really excited about that It's just that it's so big. I got to figure out how to set it up exactly But it's a good little challenge to have and I'll definitely get it set up and My it's that I do always at my office and I'm worried that somebody's gonna come in here and be like Your office looks more like a studio. So it, uh Kind of does look more like a studio, but I think I'm just gonna set up the light.  It's um, I'm excited for it. And I yeah, I've got a pretty good idea I gotta get a second light So because I want to have a I've got a plan though. I've got a plan now and then Frishtrog dolphin says yes ringtones with James sing I'm pumped. Oh, that's right. You got that and then Resort of course is mdd james skins. Oh, yeah, I didn't get that and then let's see Stripper liquor says see y'all later. Don't forget to break out the ham grenades No doubt about it. My dear friend stripper liquor and tanner from us It says love watching in or listening to everything been subscribed for a long time. Thanks tanner figure being subscribed man Thanks for being with us for so long. We're excited about the future And I'm I'm for real folks. We're pumped about all the stuff that we have coming up here I'm determined folks and we are going to Find out new ways of doing new cool things For real this channel. We're gonna do big and epic stuff So mr. Pieces stock stop talking James give us more Erica I agree and we are I talked to Erica today about a potential upcoming debate So that's cool. And then youtube surgeon general says arc debates like that are fun. I agree. They are fun Thanks, Dan Kono says have a good night chat and james. T