Good evening and welcome to select board meeting of October 15th, 2018. I'm calling the meeting of order at 635 p.m. We'll start with our opening remarks announcements and agenda review Couple items I'll mention here right off the bat To my colleagues under action and discussion items number four shade tree for e Shade tree regulations. I don't think we're going to adopt them this evening I think there's some things we need to correct on that a little bit more But we will have a little bit of a brief discussion about if there's things you want to mention So we make sure to get that folded in but I will we'll say we will probably not actually adopt them tonight just by virtue of some Final adjustments that are necessary I think that as far as order of events We'll start with public comment. Is is anyone here for public comment other than for an item on the agenda? I don't believe so So I think we'll take up the personnel board first But then I'm noticing that we have one of our licenses Folks here so we may take that up as our second item before we go back into our action and discussion items Is there anything anyone else needs to announce here at the beginning? So our first item of business is under action and discussion items Is the personal board recommendation part-time employees wage increase mr. Steinberg. Yes As I've announced before my wife is a part-time hourly employee of the library system working at the North Amherst library There is a notice on file with the town clerk regarding the Conflict of interest having to do with the ethics advice received from the ethics Commission and Further advice received from the ethics Commission. I'm going to Absent myself from the meeting during this discussion and vote. Thank you So I believe we have this Radway and mr. Butterfield here to walk us through the recommendation So if you join us here identify yourselves with the microphone, not that I didn't just do that, but You can do that again for us Good evening. I'm Tony Butterfield currently the chair of the personnel board And this is my dear friend and colleague You know well Deborah Radway director of human resources and human rights So on behalf of my colleagues on the personnel board None of whom could be here tonight and one of whom I think is at a different meeting in town hall even as we speak but I'd like them to be identified as well Charlie Sherpa Rebecca Woodland Chris Hoffman and Catherine Porter Catherine is the one who's in a different meeting going on right now We are pleased to present to you a recommended Wage and salary schedule for the town's part-time employees to take effect on January 1st 2019 This action is needed because on that date there is a new statewide law that the minimum wage shall be $12 an hour and Although technically that law does not apply to municipalities the select board has always had the policy of Well, if we're asking our businesses to do this we ought to do the same So in prior years, we have also made adjustments to be in compliance with the state minimum wage law So on January 1st The new minimum wage will be $12 an hour and that is actually the first action That will occur over the next four years Ending up with minimum wage of $15 an hour in 2015 After this January it goes up 75 cents an hour each of the remaining years until 2023 Thanks to the work of miss Radway and colleagues in payroll and finance We have come up with the best way to achieve this new minimum wage without throwing the entire Wage structure out of whack due to the problem that you are all familiar with namely wage compression We could easily just have only the bottom level get 20 get $12 an hour And then that would soon create problems with the other levels and steps so the way we are recommending that this be done is To have a 2% cost of living increase for all of the part-time employees They did not receive one last July 1st when the full-time employees did and Then look at what that did to the wages in each of the positions and levels And it turned out there were three that were not quite at the $12 an hour So those were adjusted to that level manually and you have before you on the backside of the Mammal, I think what that new wage structure would be this of course does come at a cost and the folks have figured out what that cost will be for 2019 assuming that the same number of part-time hours has worked next year as Has been worked this year And so the total cost of the adjustments we are recommending comes to $26,000 We are also recommending That managers in the future and the immediate future as they do their budget planning bake in Cola increase for their part-time employees. This has not always been a practice but we think it should be particularly to keep the differences among the levels and the steps in sync So I think I'll stop there and see What the questions are and maybe this Radway can correct any of the mistakes that I'm sure I've made Are there any questions from the board for Mr. Butterfield remains Radway Yes, my question is more for the town manager, but maybe it'll spark something else and that is I Appreciate the details that you put in writing ahead of time. Thank you very much It was great to be able to review this over the weekend and One of the things you had indicated is talking with the department Recommendation to the town manager the department heads would budget for these to make sure this is clear And one of the things I'm a little concerned about is that we have had this sort of difficulty in the past Associated with when something happens it makes it look like a particular Budget area is going up a lot like they're suddenly doing something and yes They would be paying their employees more which is a good thing But in terms of the expectation that each department is looking at in terms of expenditures I'm a little concerned about the pressure it might put on departments like mostly LSSC and elections in terms of other things they want to do and But because we're telling them they need to raise the wages that that's going to make other I mean obviously they're trade-offs and budgeting all the time But there are particular departments that are going to be much more heavily impacted than others So I'm just wondering what your sense of is for that So We've discussed this with all the the most Impacted department has both all the department heads in fact so everybody's aware of this Everybody feels that they can continue to accomplish their mission with the recognition that there will be a slightly higher wage for These part-time employees. It does have an impact on LSSC and in the library in particular It is something we will address during the budget process for FY 20 when we go through that process It's good sir both comments. So kind of along that same vein Third bullet point in as mr. Butterfield spoke about It's the personnel board's recommendation to the town manager that department heads be encouraged To budget and I'm just not sure what encourage. I mean wouldn't it be instructed to budget? Understanding as miss Brewer pointed out there's certainly tensions within all of our department's budget But I just was like what does it mean encouraged to budget? Maybe we could Was that mean? Or are they going to budget? Yeah, I think I think the personnel board felt it was not within their purview to direct And so that's only that's in your purview so So I think that's why they use the word encouraged and I think that they recognize that the sort of tension that gets developed that you Identified with the department heads when on the departments that are especially impacted by this is saying like we're doing We're doing we have to do the same amount with less money in essence because we're paying people at a higher rate So I think that that's that was the intent of that And I think what they're saying is they were listening to the department heads say to them Wow, this impacts us operationally and that's why they're saying you should budget for this because it's going to be coming It's not going to be a one-off. It's going to become we know it's going to be happening every year for the next four years So and we've taken that to heart. Yes, I guess when we make you know Take our position It gets a little firmer than cheering them on to do so And then my second thing is just just a comment because this may be the last chance that I See mr. Butterfield in a public setting and I just wanted to say is the liaison to the personnel Board that I have Really enjoyed working with that group mr. Adway's the staff and It's just it's just a really good group of people to do their work with a lot of integrity and very focused on the well-being of the employees in the town and have a kind of Big picture view and particularly mr. Butterfield has led the group. I think since Since I've been attending which has been four-plus years So I just want to have a chance to say publicly how much I I'm an admirer of the work actually that both of you do but To you Tony you've just been a great chair for this group. Thank you. Thank you and it's a good group and Ms. Radway is a fabulous resource for the group and We enjoy Working for the town on the behalf of the town and its citizens and especially the wonderful employees that we have Right back at you. We're glad to have you be the liaison. Thank you other questions or comments That's cool. I've gotten a little confused. I'm rewriting the emotion and talking about what we know for the next four years And talking about what's going to be recommended to the council and what's recommended to us What are we actually Making happen with this versus the personnel board Approaching the council in the future for future increases What's our structure here? I Believe that The personnel board's recommendation is to the select board right now to adopt the $12 An hour minimum wage and the salary schedule That is before you in subsequent years It will be I presume up to the council to decide how it wants to progress towards that $15 an hour Number in 2023 or at any point before that As it deems appropriate we just didn't want to reach further Then what is required for January 1st at this time? And we also wanted to get this set up. I don't know when the first meeting of the new town council Will be but this something needs to happen on January 1st and I'm sure there's going to be a huge list of things that they need attending to and It's really almost imperative that we do this. So we thought we should just With your The green to this to this action to have one thing taken care of That is in place for the coming year and then as things get rolling and we get closer to the end of next year the council can address the The issue of what to do about the 75 cents an hour increase that will be mandated July June January 1 2020 So still a little confused motion ends with to raise the minimum wage rate paid to all employees to a minimum of $12 per hour when Because that says effective January 1 So that's back to that. Well, that's the salary schedule that provides a 2% Because the way it's phrased it makes it sound like the second parts outside of the salary schedule But it's all part of the same thing. So it's not additionally It's the raising the minimum wage rate to a minimum of $12 per hour is part of the salary schedule for part-time hourly employees That's effective 1-1 2019. It's not an additional thing So I would really rather drop the word additional there because it includes raising the minimum wage rate the salary schedule Effective 1-1 includes would you like to make that motion? No, I'd like mr. Buckum into Yes that provides in across the board to and and raises the minimum Maybe it's just and raises. Yeah Instead of additionally and to it's and raises the minimum wage rate page while Employees to a minimum of $12 per hour because that makes it clear that it reflects back to the 1-1 19 day second So just to be clear we delete it the word additionally to the words additionally to an added s to raise So that was a motion In a second is it further discussion? Hearing none all those in favor, please say So I think the point about the timing of this is is worth just to spend a minute Yes, because we've almost every action that we've taken over the last couple months We've at least paused to be thoughtful about whether we should be doing this now or whether this should wait And I certainly understand the perspective you shared but while you're doing it now But I think for us to at least take that Take a pause on I Guess like many things this is somewhat of a gray area. I'm not uncomfortable taking this action because it follows past policy and It deals with an issue what we've been well-versed in and followed for quite a while We could say put that on the list for counsel and then they would have to get The background I think the twenty six thousand dollars is Probably a very diminuous Diminuous amount but not not necessarily nothing not to sneeze at but the overall percentage of the town's budget Or the salary line for 10 employees. It's it's probably very small and we don't We have not been taking a lot of actions where we spent a lot of money So I think it's in some ways more housekeeping and I would be comfortable But I'd like to make sure that the other members feel comfortable taking this action at this at this time Well, I would suggest that I'm comfortable as well. I think for a couple of reasons one is that What we run into unfortunately with the minimum wage laws that it changes in January and Yet our fiscal year runs July 1 to July 30th And so we're always kind of struggling should we do this on a fiscal year basis or you know more in timeliness with With the other and I think if you know, we've taken this action again this time of year and years past So I don't think it's a deviation from past practice And again, I think it's you know, it is worth considering But I also am comfortable with taking this action at this point I would hate for it to sit for six months and then have the council do it as part of their they may want to anticipate it for their next budget for fiscal 20, but Certainly in in the in the current fiscal year. I think it's fine to do that Mr. Wall I'm so comfortable with this. I don't even see they did discuss it. I think that's a waste of time I mean, I think the reasons you've stated both of you indicate why it's not a great area It's the right thing to do. It's in conformity with state policy Even though we're not fully obligated to do that and we've been doing it before Let's move on Despite what mr. Wall just said I would Really encourage us to and when I say us this is the royal us which means not me that We issue a press release after we do this assuming that this passes that touches on the fact that it's a one-year action That we have not fully committed to the future schedule, although I might like to commit us to that That's not what we're doing because of the very transition provision that we're talking about The fact that we are looking at the minimum wage as an employer of choice even though we're not required to do it because that was something that certainly surprised a number of people in town when they realized we weren't actually subject to it when they voted to change it statewide and also the Mention, I think we deserve credit for the mention of the sick and personally that we provide our regular part-time employees I think all of these things are things that we should Mention to the public that we are doing on their behalf and that we think are good things and again We're not totally tying up the council for the future But these are areas of recognition that I think we don't always get full credit for Is there further discussion? Hearing none all those in favor, please say aye. Aye So that's unanimous with one absent Thank you both very much. Thank you And so if you see mr. Steinberg So I think for the sake of courtesy I see our The folks from jakes are here to have a change in the common victual license so a few gentlemen would like to come to the to the to the front and Also a little bit about that and we'll take up that topic under our licenses in public way and meet a parking reservation Thank you for seeing us and nice to see you all Yeah These are here as often as we are True, you know the best thing once again. Thank you for having us. We are here tonight To request a change in of our hours of operation of our restaurant from 7 a.m. Until 1 a.m. The reason for this I had drafted a letter to the board explaining the reasons Simply you're not seeing the revenue stream that we really need to in order to sustain our business So we'd like options in order to host private events and various other parties in order to right to get to the revenue stream that we that we need the have that flexibility with the Expanded hours. Yes, does the board have questions? So having asked questions about this at agenda setting I want to make Draw the board's attention to my understanding here, which is that the ZBA just last week and we got this memo on our desk tonight Approved the class 2 restaurant for jakes and allowed them to stay open until 1 a.m They talked about conditions associated with alcohol storage, but they of course do not issue the alcohol license And we made it incredibly clear at our last meeting that we were not Putting alcohol hours any longer than what was originally applied for it's my understanding that the alcohol license is in process Which means a couple of things which is one can't be changed while it's in process To we would need another hearing as we indicated then for additional hours and three that there can be no ability to get a One-day liquor license in the meantime to cover any events that might happen. So it's in kind of this Odd space in terms of what happens. So I just want to make sure we're all clear that that's our understanding of this And then I'm totally willing to extend the hours of operation for common Vic that I have no problem with the ZBA normally we would do that either before or after ZBA they do it before or after us and That's been taken care of at the ZBA level But in terms of the alcohol license as it is going to be a separate issue beyond the seven to three Which I know is going to seem strange to some customers who are going to come in and say wait I can have a bloody Marriott lunch, but I can't have a glass of wine with dinner and the answer is that is correct It is a bit of a quirk of where you're at licensing was yeah, so I did bring this up with the planning Commission Licensing spoke with Jennifer spoke with everybody in the departments in order to figure out the best course of action And they said going for the ZBA and asking for it And then asking here for the extended hours. Well, the liquor license was in process The language put into whatever board would Kind of allow The approvals to go forward no matter who we sat before first so that being said I Was just aware of that we had to go through this process and yeah Yeah, I think the difficulty is just the the the alcohol license itself is going to be Not quite It's you have to the one you've got in process now with the ABCC he's got to kind of finish going through the sausage grinder as it were Then you can seek an amendment to that at that point, but it does Sort of create this gap of time where your alcohol license is a much smaller window of time than your actual Victorial license Anyway, so yes, so did we decide when we were speaking about this at agenda setting and you know getting all this set up Did we speak about the idea of going ahead and posting? Legally advertising not posting legally advertising another hearing or because ABCC's process is unpredictable It's a little difficult to do that We're of the latter, but I'm not sure That we haven't yet scheduled because we don't quickly right Yeah, if ABCC was more precise in its Process, then we might be able to sort of force put some things on account of course. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah So is there other Comment or question relative to this change to the common victor license and if not if someone wanted to offer a motion Well offer the motion I Move to approve the change in the common bitchler license hours of operation to 7 a.m To 1 a.m The following day Monday through Sunday for Jake's at the mill 68 Coles Road Chris Ware and Alexander Rosh it owners managers Motion a second is there further discussion Yes Well, I was glad to see the letter from the ZBA Which is in my materials and I saw it disappeared in my cut sucked into my packet But I was glad to see that because the notes I had made when I reviewed our earlier packet was I would concerned that The extended Hours would have a lot more impact potentially on the neighborhood But if the ZBA has already looked at that and considered that then I'm happy with what we're doing and it's misproof pointed out. We're not extending that Alcohol hours yet because we can't but that's where the direction we're going and it and it does say in the letter from mr. Ware and mr. Washwood that just We feel that the noise level will be kept to a reasonable level and I was like not sure what one person's reasonable Other persons would ever but this is really a ZBA issue for the special permit for the restaurant Not ours, but so I'm comfortable with our part of the action But to just acknowledge that having a place serving alcohol and staying open much later is a different kind of Business model than what we had looked at previously Thank you just following up on that so Exactly and so once their license comes in from ABCC that we agreed to during those hours So they may well start serving dinner as soon as this happens because ZBA decision and our common Vic But in terms of then you know the alcohol license will come through they can start serving as we agreed And then there's going to be a gap of time Because we will want the neighbors to have another chance beyond the fact that legally we need to do it We will want the neighbors to have another chance because it does set not in any way possibly a negative tone But it is a different scenario With the housing that is nearby there to have it at dinner time and later than it was Seemed much simpler associated with breakfast and lunch. So I hope that we can With all the bazillions of things staff is keeping track of keep track of when that comes in and try and get a hearing Legally noticed as quickly as possible after that But I don't know if we're gonna make it in time for the select board to take action on that And then it falls into the gray area of the licensing commission and the town manager So it would be I would think it would be far preferable to try and get it done if we possibly could in November Here assuming ABCC cooperates by not sitting on it for several weeks Mr. Wall, I mean I certainly appreciate the need for due diligence and licensing establishment such as this and with a change in Their functions and hours, but you know, it's a little bit ironic that we're supposedly encouraging development in town This part of town in a former commercial area with mixed use and retail and then worried about the noise impact of a rather sedate Restaurant that serve is limited amount of alcohol when you have a very active pub and bar down the street And you're putting in new housing with several hundred residents and retail Which may contain other drinking and eating establishments too. So I mean it's good good to be cautious, but I hope that The response to the public is is welcoming to the business that trying to revive this part of North Amherst and make it a lively place And I don't think disruption is a great danger to this part of town We do have a motion in In front of us here is there for the discussion on that? If not all those in favor, please say aye Post so that's unanimous Thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much for all your help in this new process for us All right, thank you both So we'll head back to our action discussion items next on our agenda is the north common renovations main street parking lot and a timeline So I believe we're gonna take us through a little bit. Mr. Bach. Yes This breast room This breast drop is not gonna be here tonight So In your packet Delocate my copy is a memo from Ms. Breastrup Which outlines gives a basic history of the project of the North Common Main Street why it merged into one comprehensive project where the money came from To to initiate the process and where we are so To summarize it There have been some to public hearing to public meetings during the summer during the spring in the summer in September There were three concepts that were reviewed with the select board next week They we will again review a final concept plan with the select board mostly to sort of Since you have been involved in this whole process from the very beginning to get your sense of things and whether we're in the We're moving in the right direction or not and to make sure the public is fully engaged in the entire planning process Even though there have been public meetings on this and many people have attended the public meetings You can never do outreach too much for something that's as critical as this The we're anticipating that this will again be presented to the town council We would we have established a fairly aggressive timeline, so we would early on in the council's existence We would present it to the council in January and review view with them what What the concept was We if they approve the concept we would then go into permitting and final design and do the final bids in March and Hopefully we would do the construction award in late April Because we would like to begin this project We are I'm really hoping that we don't have to delay this project another year the only time that we can do this project is once graduation occurs and Take over the summer because that's the least impact on the businesses and the residents in town so we would move from mid-May until Potentially as late as November to do the construction of the entire thing We would phase it so that we could use one section as a staging area and have tried to stages So could it lose as few parking spaces as possible during the construction period? so I think the goal tonight was just to alert you to what the time frame was what the select board's role was and to alert the public about the More comprehensive conversation that's going to happen next work next Monday on October 22nd And there are still some letters from people that we've received over time in your packet as well Are there questions for the manager relative to the to the timeline or topics? Yes, Mr. Yeah regarding the timeline There are a number of major events that occur routinely on an annual basis in the common Starting with the fair the big brothers big sisters are fair the Bids Chamber of Commerce first, you know the night out for the restaurants is The plan Sufficient to protect those events and a lot of the events to go forward So the Entire area that would be under construction is the North Common in the Main Street parking lot So it would not extend beyond the Spring Street Parking lot so those air those events all occur on the South Common So those events should all be able to continue as planned What won't be in existence will be that sort of breathing area, which is the North Common But that doesn't really get impacted that much by these events anyway And then also the parking lot The Main Street parking lot those parking spaces will be out of commission Nice and same thing is true for the farmers market Farmer's market is another question. We that's something we have not addressed But it is something they could they would stay if they want to stay where they are they could But we if they were interested in moving someplace else during the construction period we could talk to them about that But you're a planning at this point to allow for that and assuming that that we get closer on the timeline We could start telling them we could start telling all those typical organizations Which we know we always see because you get the common applications anyway And that continues under the new form of government So you can start telling people like the taste and big brothers big sisters etc. That they will won't have that Parking available to them in any fashion But that as you say the rest of the kind the part they actually are using per se Will be fine right and will not be impacted So it's just people coming to and occasionally sometimes they use vendor parking directly in front of town hall. I had just a comment and a question in terms of Phrasing for the public's benefit on the second page under current progress one two three four five paragraphs down One thing I think that that we want to be cautious about as we continue to describe things And I really appreciate this memo which I had asked for and I do appreciate that it even has lots of text with it Not just dates. So thank you is that it says here verbatim Since August town staff has met separately with the select board the disability access advisory committee the downtown parking working group and various other stakeholders When you don't say at public meetings It makes people imagine people who already suspect things of staff and committees that things are happening behind closed doors And I know that's not true because we were here And they were here and so I would just encourage you don't rewrite a memo But in terms of moving forward that when you say that staff has been meeting with boards or meeting with stakeholders Anything that's public associated with that I think is worth mentioning. You don't have to list all the dates But just to make it super clear because otherwise it might sound like they met from with the select board chair and Maybe one member as opposed to they came here. They were on television. The press could have written about it It was something that was completely open and exposed to the light as they say And so that's simply a stylistic issue But I think that it's important Particularly as things are changing that we make it really clear that staff is actually going to all these public meetings It's not that they get to just decide things internally. They're working really hard to reach out to all the necessary bodies and The other action that I'm just a little confused by and I think it's just a matter of language But it could be partly the transition on the actual timeline when it says late February It says permitting and since this is written by a planner I understand that but it says design review board in town council town council doesn't do any permitting So what are they referring to exactly accepting the final design or are they referring to the to the funding because the Funding is not mentioned here any place in terms of the town council accepting the bond So like I said a planner wrote this I get that but in terms of maybe the next time We see this timeline. It could be a little tweaked to be clear on it's a good start It's a really good start and it really lays out what we needed to know about construction Because I know that everybody was concerned about that especially when I was encouraging us not to act So I appreciate the removing things along but it needs to be clear or when town council has to act on both The I know it says January 2019 approval for final concept plan So that would be one town council action, but another town council action would be the bond authorization And I think that's what we're actually looking at there whereas design review board may well have Permitting authority that but but they have recommendation and so just permitting I think it's probably just the wrong word and it just needs to clarify what the roles of those bodies are It's cool. Mr. Wall. Oh, Mr. Wall Yeah, I mean, I guess I that's a it's a good point to take into account the public's reading of things I guess I was reading it differently because it said select board as a body And we wouldn't meeting as a body without an open law open meeting law violation anyway, but never can be too careful I guess I had a question about the draft final concept plan referred to here Mm-hmm And where the public will find that Hopefully it'll be in your packet on Thursday or Friday when we post your packet for next week Is that does that the one you're talking about? Yeah, the one you have to talk Because we have a sketch of it prefer. There is a skit. Yeah, there's a reference to a final concept. That's not a plan It's kind of tiny. I don't know. Yeah, the official final No Because they hadn't had enough time. I know they were meeting this afternoon So and this is in your packet before this afternoon. So I know there's a meeting This is on the way to being Yeah, because I was a little bit confusing and we saw last time we had the three plans And I mean I guess I would like all sites too I miss Brestrup is near to answer questions because I'd like to know more about I'm sure with her next week about the process How they got from here to there? Yeah, because it seemed they had the one that was ambitious and idealistic and one that was awful And as usual they picked the messy compromise that was entirely unregistered And I would like to hear more about how they got from the one to the other and the logic of that was you know because again if it was We were we had this public these public meetings We had the presentation select board a few weeks ago seems like age to go by now and then there was sort of this sense that well One wasn't good and one was too bold. So It's there's some sort of magical consensus this preferred this you know plan second plan became the Sol survivor and I guess I would be interested in What we got there how why this is labeled the preferred concept here process yeah I guess my comments are similar and then I'm you know, I I didn't know this is still under consideration So I realize it's the middle kind of some parking not as much parking this shows of minus eight spaces But there's certainly and maybe it's not the final and we'll get more detail But I had a couple of questions like where it says drop-off area Which I know it is important for people to be able to access town hall and It's it's but it's pretty hard to see in this at this scale or this version what how that actually works and then Shaded BOSC Plaza and maybe mr. Wilde, you know what that is, but I don't have a clue what that is And so maybe I think it's a reference to a plaza in another country trying to Google it quickly well here But I'm not sure but maybe and then The one thing well, well, I had spoken of not wanting to lose all the parking I'm being very protective of the parking. So in that regard This is close to it's a minus eight But I've also spoken We've been looking at this one way or another for Well over a year I don't see anything here that addresses a place for children to climb on something or do something like the area at Pulaski Park, and I really hope that's going to come in the final version that we clearly this isn't the final which is good because There's there's some some things that I think are really missing from this so I'm not gonna Let that point go I realize we haven't voted on that particular area, but I am also having also Well beyond we've all been parents at some point, but also I have Was listening to that those comments made at one of the public meetings and continue And so I want to make it really really clear to Staff as they're talking with Weston and Samson that it doesn't matter that five people didn't say it It matters that we're saying it because you're not going to get it approved if it doesn't if it doesn't get addressed or At least at least two of us believe that's true at this point So the fact that a number of people at a public meeting said let's just get rid of all the parking That was great and interesting and valuable, but it is not the final decisive factor and does not Over outweigh some of the concerns that we are also bringing to this since we are at this point The next level of deciding the other thing I would ask is that we have drawing And it can be very basic and it can be based on our parking maps It would does not need to be some brand new convoluted thing of what our current conditions are here So just in terms of like showing people look these are where the spaces are right now here and in front of town hall and and going down boltwood and This is what we're talking about doing instead because this is pretty But it's not useful for making a decision. We need more detail than this in terms of making a decision. It's Yeah, it's lovely to use planning terms like a boss But it's not particularly helpful to the public and it doesn't tell me anywhere near enough to know What this actually means in terms of parking? So like I said our basic parking maps with the little dots on them that staff have worked with a while Would go a long way to showing what current conditions are and then something that's Perhaps on a bigger piece of paper perhaps in a different format Would be incredibly helpful because having it not be helpful doesn't mean it'll just get done Even though we're frustrated with the map it may mean that it gets delayed another meeting Yeah, that's a good point that this tour races. I mean I did I've kind of counted spaces on here on the map And I looked at I looked most of the totals and I have a sense to where things are as I recall that the PowerPoint presentation had a lot of these be you know existing conditions and so forth including maps But it's a good reminder that the public should be given those two where we should sure if we're for being correct as far as you know The people playing I guess I assume the kids were going to climb on the cars you all seem want to have there But I'm glad miss Krueger and this brewer raised the question of the play structure and things like that too Because I think there's a chance since parking is so contentious and I can say that I wanted to walk three blocks tonight to find a spot You know since parking is so contentious I don't want to forget the landscape issues because there were significant differences in the landscape plans of the three and Again, I'd like to know how we got from here to there I think each had strengths and weaknesses they were oriented for different you're taking into account the topography They're oriented for different types of activity, you know public activity seating areas and so forth So we don't want to overlook the landscape in the process of that and if we can I don't know We pass line questions to planning board and planning department Or are we just talking to ourselves here? Yes, I'll pass these along to ask of course I guess the other question is it was there a serious consideration? I mean because it part of the problem is I mean I think this is in You know it's some ways that the plan everyone can live with And I totally understand the need for more parking downtown I was understood that too I my fear is that this is not the way to solve it because it's the worst of both worlds in that It makes us think that we've preserved parking or haven't hurt parking So it doesn't increase parking and it doesn't put it in the right place and when people in a hundred years Let's look at this. They're gonna say what were you thinking? Taking this iconic space in front of town hall and keeping parking there with a chance to redesign something different But I guess you know given that we need parking I guess I would like to know how thoroughly we consider other options like I'm not an engineer You know people talk though in these previous sessions about increased diagonal parking alongside on Pleasant Street and so forth You know if you because we're taking chunks out of things here and there anyway, and we're closing off a street That's now two-way and losing some spaces there, you know What could one do in other ways that would keep the green space and public meeting space here and provide parking But I'm you know bottom line parking problem is not solved by this. It's not going away, so The other thing I would mention just since we're Getting ahead of ourselves in some ways because this was about timeline, but but but if we can get these you know sort of to be get the Plain Department be prepared to answer those because they're gonna come up the other thing that I didn't see although it may be there Oh is um where the bike share rack goes Because we intentionally put it where we put it and you know in the redesign It may not fit quite like we want it to or it plays into the aesthetic that you're trying to create there So that would be something that we should Think about how it fits into that Yep, it's not a It's a good-sized thing it may kind of be there It says improve streetscape and drop off just not yeah, yeah, so clear bus stop and bike rack Yeah, and obviously when we get this a little larger scale will be able to see more things and complain more But nonetheless, I mean you know it is it is one of those things that we did you know go to Considerable effort to put in place and yep, that is a significant newer feature of the of the existing comments Anyway Are there other comments relative to this that we want to share with the manager to share out with planning staff relative to This but I think telling that story of sort of how we got to hear and what are the other trails And I do think that that's you know, mr. Wall's point about You know The struggles we have with parking in the downtown You know leaving a few more spaces here versus not May not be a material difference, but it you know in the short term, it's a huge difference But is there or could there be something? Nearby that could be made into parking that might mitigate that immediate problem, but also allow us to be more robust in our planning here and in that regard and maybe there's not I mean I don't know if they've been sliced this every way from Sunday, and it just doesn't work any other way So that's you know, I think part of what we want to hear about a little bit Just I'm parking I had me to know When mr. Steinberg was talking about those other events and people don't always know that Amherst College does let people park in Those lots on weekends, and it really could be better promoted because if you're going to the farmers market or a fair There are lots that are just almost almost as close as this one and You know we can have that the debate about parking, but if it were that easy to find another spot to grab Probably not that there couldn't be or wouldn't be but it's not readily apparent Where where we would Gain those so for some people it's really important to be able to get that close to that Particular block in that particular set of services and things that happen and at the downtown parking working group meeting Jen the fountain who's Managing the parking system right now said you know for some of the senior citizens Just critical to be able to drive up to town hall to pay a tax bill or to do whatever business or register to vote in that so There may be more than one way to solve that but to not just wipe that out at this point felt Important there's a number of town staff who park here Who are the in-and-out inspectors and whatever and there's some accommodation where that that maybe could? Happen differently using the back lot So there's some parking management things that could go in tandem with this and there's probably two years to prepare for that that We take some of the pressure off this front area. I have a quick question about the map I says I'm not great with scale So the place where you drive into and out of the parking lot behind town hall remains the same It's just that the street is closed off and for example in this example, which is of course not the final But the idea is that the entire street is closed off basically up until that point of when or Yes, it's a little bit further down. I'm not sure what all those bushes are replaced That's what I'm confused Okay, so what are those nine bushes Yeah, yeah, I understand that but if I walked outside and looked there, what's there now can't tell from this It's our little tiny grassy slope will now suddenly hold nine trees It's beautiful plantings actually that Mary does staff does what Mary does do wonderful work with that So, okay clear what they're gonna do. Yeah, it just they just it just seems large for the space But but yeah, so you'd still go in and out of the parking lot behind and there is a one way That's attempting to tell me it's going which direction. Okay, so I think yeah We we need some this was just a pretty in between thing. Yeah, it's just to give you Middle one that everyone Except it might be our last chance to say things like and where's that place you climb I mean Because we don't want to just say oh by the way now we have 25 more questions I mean we might still have 25 more questions, but shot So it seems like we use the same engineering firm a lot and we don't seek Lance people with sensitive, you know that are particularly specialized in landscape architecture So when we look at this and we know that it's an engineering plan with some green on it I have wondered for a long time why we're not going out and seeking Different firms for different kinds of jobs. So I'm just gonna put that up because I'm sure the engineering will be really spectacular getting the sidewalk in the grade and the subsurface drainage, but Some of the things that we that are really the wow factor. I think we're losing in some of our selections. I'm just But I think conceptually when this started it was a parking lot and the North Common It wasn't seen as being one and so you needed a firm that had both a landscape arm which and an engineering arm for the for the structural engineering part of the parking lot There are not a lot of landscape firms that also have the the other part of it. So you know, Weston Samson was already engaged on the Parking lot and it seemed to make sense to just move forward with them on the landscape arm and By all and I think most people the most feedback has been pretty positive It's not a comment on that firm per se It's just we've been using that process and we've been handing a lot of our major landscape projects to them Or to the same firm So I just would like to look at that there's three firms that get a lot of our business CDM Berkshire design and Weston Samson, so those those are the three that tend to and have we bid those they do we do get kind for the The Groff Park, I believe we did Berkshire design on that one Yeah, and so they're the ones that's not on the state list. That's not the tried and true. So I'm just saying Some of the things I think we're reacting to I just maybe it's a conversation for another time, but We want to have more sensitivity in the landscaping on some of our just like to see it opened up in a bid process This I would put under one of those categories of you know memos to future cells or to town council, you know Wisdom to pass along or things than to think about Right, so I think that's a good place There's not an action item on this is there for the comment for the manager any any questions about the timeline itself and and We're brought up a couple points as far as fine-tuning sort of the language on it to be clear about what's what So I think what we'll do now is move on to our next agenda item Which is the Pioneer Valley Charter Chinese immersion charter school and comments for to the Department of Education And I will make a brief. I was the chair of the Amherst school committee reached out to me via email I shared that with you all And so that's why that topic is on our agenda for this evening However, because I am an employee of the school. This is one of those things It's that sweet spot of things where conflict could exist. I'm going to Yield the chair to Ms. Brewer is our co-chair our vice chair for the for the month and have her sort of carry this discussion for us Well, I won't actually leave the room unless you'd like me to I will sit quietly and enjoy your comments relative to this topic. So Ms. Brewer if you want to Great, thank you And so I appreciate Ms. Mills pulling together all this old information for us because we have it does feel like it's a little bit Like Groundhog Day that we have done this over and over and over again So in our packet for those of you following along at home There is the letter from the school system that includes some very nice graphics dated November 21st 2017 So yes, basically a year ago But there are also some other dates in here basically the most recent thing that happened was dated December 4th 2017 and that was the letter from the select board Saying please don't allow the Prime Year Valley Chinese Immersion Charter School to expand its enrollment We had previously also said that in February of 2017 so twice in one year and in between there as I indicated there was a letter from The schools dated February 22nd and also one dated November 21st We also although we didn't for some reason that I can't ascertain Mention the additional piece of big piece of data you got tonight on the desk That is special town meeting from fall 2017 There are two articles that are about I Related to items that we're working on tonight and one of them is article 11 And of course, you know, we don't have page numbers on town meeting results But so go to article 11 and that's a resolution regarding Charter School funding and expansion that the Emmer school committee had brought forward to us and That was a voted resolution so it I to the best of my knowledge nothing has changed associated with the schools view or our community's view of the funding arrangements that make it really in Tolerable for the Pioneer Valley Chinese Inversion Charter School to expand and so the school committee is in the process of writing another letter and Suggested that we may wish to do the same. I'll know I'm a former school committee member. And so of course I'm all in on that What I'm wondering at this point is there is a deadline of course for comments when they're supposed to go in and I was going to ask since this wasn't available electronically Friday, but This mills pulled it all together and I'm sure it's available electronically now I was going to ask the chair of the Emmer school committee to take a look and see if there was anything that jumped out is needing to be updated Basically because we're kind of writing our letters and concert in that they're pulling up the you know great levels of detail And we're taking more of the town's approach, but also mentioning specific impacts on the schools so I guess the questions are one are we gonna write another letter to who's gonna write it and Three what other things did you think might need to be in it having had a chance to look over our old letters? over the course of time and of course we do also now have the resolution from town meeting that would have been sent to The same people basically as our letter had been sent so just say still across the top of the letter nothing has changed which To to a degree is at least true from the standpoint that the funding formula hasn't changed and there's no end in sight associated with that or with assuring that the compensation Which is not the correct word, but haven't had enough coffee this evening associated with the There's normally a staggered amount that is reimbursed to schools But is subject to appropriation and frequently doesn't make its way all the way out to the schools But it's a minor consideration in terms of all of this what it really is of course as we stated before Is that it impacts the opportunities for the students in our schools when too many resources are going to the charter schools? So thoughts about why we would or would not send a letter or anything else It should include in anyone who'd like to volunteer to update what we've written in the past So I'm sure we can find in word version someplace She's chairing. Yes. I'm sorry. Sorry. You were leaving the room when we had that conversation. Okay. Yes, please I'm acting chair. I Had an interesting conversation with enamor's parent whose Child goes to this school and I just want to acknowledge that for you know, some of our residents are being educated at this school and It was that parents position that you know that her child was at a disadvantage because they couldn't add this high school facility and You know work we're kind of stuck with saying well It's not that we don't want that variety of educational choices We don't like the funding formula that puts the public school students You know does harm to them but it Do you know this parents position was well? Let the charter school let the immersion school build the high school and then try to you know over time try to change the formula Or do you say we don't want This to go forward until the formulas changed. I think we almost have to say the latter Fixed the funding formula, but I just want to acknowledge that it is also a hardship for students who are at that school to not be able to have this facility and that is Happening because the state has not addressed the problem with sucking badly needed dollars out of the public school system and putting those students It add a disadvantage so in in Joining with the school committee and writing another letter to just be clear that We would like all the students to have the benefits of a high quality education And it's really our issue is really with the way the funding puts our public schools at a At risk just time I'm not entirely convinced that it's just funding because we've relatively small school and When you reduce student population you reduce the opportunity of the school in scheduling courses to schedule as many options for students and I Think that that's also something that We need to be considering It's probably a Greater problem for the smaller schools that are also within a smaller elementary schools in the region They have the greatest impact of this, but I think that it flows through the entire system that when you start Taking students reducing student population, which is already being reduced that it has an additional impact on the traditional public schools and I guess what I would like to See somebody do Whoever's going to take charge of this letter whether staff or from the board is to spend some time with somebody in school administration and with the School committee just to make sure that all of the information that we're providing is still accurate and good because there are Changes with dates and that we have not Missed any information that is important Thank you others Great because one of the things that was true in December for example that may have changed is at that time They hadn't come close to filling their current enrollment of 584 in their lower grades and so while I do actually really appreciate the sentiment that of course a Child who's been attending a school and is looking forward to the next thing happening I'm reminded of all the students who are looking forward to taking languages in our schools that we cut So they had older siblings who took those classes. This is a mythical thing. This high school hasn't started yet We're not taking away someone's high school We have taken away our programs locally from our students who were expecting to have access to those programs and we don't have the programs we used to have and so It is funding and it is also a matter of local Governance in terms of an elected school committee versus there is no elected body that has any oversight It is all done administratively through the state and yes a lovely board of directors at the Chinese Immersion Charter School They're not subject to open meeting law and they are not Responsible to the taxpayers as to how their money is spent So it does feel like it's a number of different issues and it definitely impacts smaller schools And I've heard mr. Steinberg speak about this elsewhere as well You know when one Pellum and shoots very elaborate loose students to Charter schools it makes an even bigger impact because it never comes out evenly, you know across the different grades But I appreciate that we do need to be thoughtful about the fact that people are accessing this education right now And finding in a really good fit for their child Mrs. Krueger Why am I looking at him when you're trying? Sorry? No, no, no, I did like what you're saying just to just a kind of a footnote to the point about course offerings and When my daughter went through Amherst High School and graduated in 1990 She took Chinese language in high school and went on and chose a college where Chinese language was offered and spent part of her junior year in Beijing Because of her interest in Chinese language that course is not offered Or it stopped being offered. I don't know if it's again. It's not the same as an immersion school. I'm not equaling it But we have lost That's you know a variety of options over time because of you know partly the drain from Charter schools other cutbacks as well but it is sad to me that For my grandchildren they couldn't change There's a number of language options that we did offer and are no longer able to offer and that was my personal example Not too much to add that again. I think you I think the bottom line is miss Krueger said in the beginning is that we all agree The funding model is impossible. I mean just it's destructive and Completely unacceptable and mr. Steinberg's point about the size of schools as important as brewers about the offerings you know and we're in that context we Mind you about the February 17 letter to which talks for other services You're not being equivalent to those offered in the Amherst public schools like special education and also talks about University transportation English and things like that just a footnote about the language I think I met miss Brewer maybe 15 something years ago When we work when precisely the language question of the school had very ambitious plans to do more language work and for a variety of reasons It was hard to make that fit the Class schedule and the testing environment and so forth and we've really seen a terrible decay as you said too over the last You know decade and a half now and it's Bottom line of things that miss Brewer said also we're not taking away something That's important to make that very clear And we are trying to provide the most Benefits we can for the largest number of students who are funded through our taxes So who would like to work on an updated letter with the chair of the school committee? Since I think this is one mr. Bakerman can duck even despite all his experience as a school committee member elsewhere I Will do that if no one else wishes to do it, but I would prefer to not be that contact person But I can do it Simply will ask as I've already reached out to the school committee chair and said One of us will work with you on this on making sure it's updated appropriately So unless mr. Steinberger mr. Wilde Say yes, I would much prefer to do that Then the question is what do you want to see again versus? What do you want to have us just to sign because of course there's the awkward spot where we can't have mr. Slaughter sign it Because he's recused himself from the situation But we have listed him in the past associated with So whatever but the question is do you want to see a draft letter and look it over or Do you want to just accept that it will get done? And it will be presented to you as a feta complete that has been signed by I guess the vice chair The one question that I have is do we have any ideas to when the target date is to get this in November 1st is my understanding Unfortunately, yes, I'm fine Letting it come to come back to us as an FYI after the fact I don't know if the other members are but If maybe some of what we talked about tonight as a kind of update if it's it may not may or may not have Be redundant to what's already in the past letters But just if that could be reflected in the next version along with the updates on numbers The things that we talked about I think that you know for example the letter of December 4th says the town of Amherst voted unanimously Blah blah blah select board at a posted meeting somewhere for to send you these concerns I think some wording that varies on that that says these were the concerns we addressed our public meeting and But don't blame any of the others for the wording So I will take these notes then and work with the school committee chair There's ordonas and see what we can come up with and get that make sure that we make the deadline so that we have that done All right, thank you for your help and then I will turn it back to and it does it seem like I might as well mention Article 11. I mean they got us they got another letter after we passed article 11 at town meeting It seems like I should we should probably reference that and attach it because it We didn't do it before because it got sent separately, but it is to our meetings last Mention of this issue and it was only a year ago I don't think we have anything maybe a motion to authorize the vice chair to I moved To authorize the vice chair to write a letter To blank blank blank Massachusetts Board of Elementary and Secondary Education Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on behalf of the select board Reiterating our position to not expand the Chinese immersion school Further discussion And the only other thing is that well, I couldn't take on the primary Responsibility if you decide to you wanted to consult one other person because it's not to be great to a quorum You can consult me and call on my help That would be terrific. Thank you any further discussion all those in favor, please say I So that passes any opposed any abstentions no because we all force it one absent Count you as absent So So that passes unanimously with one absent and thank you mr. Slaughter So next on our agenda is the PVA route restoration and allocation of town meeting funds from the annual town meeting of our last of last spring Mr. Bachman and I met today with folks from PVTA the administrator the Sure, he's the exact title but the director of the UMass transit service And a couple of folks from UMass I'm not sure their titles Shane Conklin from finance and Relations or something any relations communicate External relations. I believe yes exactly so and we talked about you know sort of some options that we had You know, I had I done some some outreach to the PVTA about potential route restoration We looked at those a little bit and you know, what would cost to restore some roots So one of the issues that you know that the UMass transit service is struggling with in the current semester is just having enough drivers to Accommodate this the schedule that they wanted to have which was a reduced schedule It it seems as though the hiring is has been Proceeding nicely and the training is underway And so they are going to be more capable to to run roots in the in the second semester They were this fall and so some some of the reductions that were made that were less about the financial impact But more about just having people to drive the buses Those will essentially go away by you know, the December break the intercession break I think we had a productive conversation today about about where we are and what what concerns we have. Oh, you know There are some roots that are We're not on the list. I was looking at I was looking at mostly and to ask PVTA around roots, particularly in Amherst or primarily in Amherst There's some roots that are a little More of more concern to the University that go into Some other towns a little bit more and so they were like well, you know, how do we sort of to our Constituency sort of talk about these things in a in a way that makes sense as far as Restoration is concerned. And so we've got some more work to do We've got a we're gonna get some updated numbers on on what the cost would actually be given that we're You know now into the first semester and so some of the numbers will need to be updated a little bit But one of the other concerns that was raised was relative to you know If we put service back and then we only have money that works until essentially the end of the fiscal year Basically till the summertime That doesn't solve the problem So we just sort of put it out there and then pull it back again a semester later You know is that more harmful than good so There is some other Money's available at the state level for some innovative work there the governor's formed a task force and potentially That could be a resource the the conversation I mean we asked the question today. It's like well, can that money be spent if we were to acquire, you know Some support via that mechanism Which is which is potentially, you know, essentially kind of grant to to do some innovative type of service You know could that carry over into a new fiscal year because it was appropriated for fiscal 19 in the state budget and Right now that you know given where we are in the fiscal year It would be difficult for them to take proposals for projects and award grants and have people spend the money within the fiscal year So while they'll officially make a ruling on it in the next couple of weeks as far as whether or not that chunk of money that the state set aside for that, you know Innovation in transportation They'll get a ruling in the next couple weeks as to whether or not that'll carry to a new fiscal year and I mean Given sort of what it takes to do proposals and review them and award grants and that sort of thing It's likely that they'll extend into the year. So it could be a thing where our current Funding that we have could get us to the end of the year and then we potentially could be awarded a grant like that to sustain in a Different way, so so there's a few different ideas that are sort of, you know We're we're put out there today that we're we're gonna explore over the next couple weeks Just from the standpoint of scheduling, you know printing of schedules, you know Scheduling of drivers, etc. Etc. We're going to have to you know kind of commit to something with with PBTA Really toward the end of the month of the latest But we've got some more work to do and so I just wanted to update you is the you know, I think of quite productive meeting I think one of the other things I I wanted to sort of share with them with the University was that I think that they and we could be advocating pretty profoundly for public transport support for public transportation because It's it's an essential and fundamental thing within our community As I often say those those dollars spent on public transportation are very high-leveraged certainly in the PBTA So they're high-leveraged dollars in that regard But I also think given that we have you know a we will have a brand-new representative and a brand-new senator In the legislature we were gonna need to be Seeking as many ways as we can to sort of advocate at the legislative level to help promote Support for for public transportation. So that was part of what I was going to say I've heard murmurings that transportation is going to be a major agenda item at the for the state Legislature coming up and because we have We'll have a new delegation not officially people aren't in yet But it may not be too soon to start Meeting with those people and getting them on board because I think they would be very strong advocates even though they're new legislators So that I think that's one thing we can do proactively in second Just my own two cents about what it do more harm than good I think if you don't have a car and you're trying to get to work It would be better to have that root for six months and then lose it then to not have it at all Like I don't see how that's gonna do more more harm that you might have something that you could lose later than not having it All so if I have to get to work And there's a way for me to get there with the bus I'll take it for as long as I possibly can with you that maybe we will have some legislative Help between now and In the end of the fiscal year And certainly, you know, it wasn't a clear-cut yes or no I mean, it's just sort of having that debate. You know, it's like could we or could we not should we should we not Transportation and I'll see it helps to end it sooner, right? Mr. Simon do you have a comment or question? Question actually has to do with the letter that we received those also in the packet dated September 27th and First of all, it quotes our share of the Assessment and I wasn't sure how that matches up against our Transportation funder if it comes from other places and second of all But is the major question really out of this is they are asking for a two-and-a-half percent increase Was that built into the original budget? So that the amount that town meeting added was above and beyond what we're actually having to pay Part of that if you want to answer the last part I'll answer the first part So this letter is actually in some ways entirely separate from the issue of that Because this is our normal assessment and so the PVTA is allowed by chapter 161 To increase their assessment by two-and-a-half percent and it works much the same way it does for property tax in our community So our actual assessment may go up more than two-and-a-half percent or less depending on essentially how many miles are driven within our town and then on top of that because we partner with the five colleges, Inc. and the university and Being clear to note that UMass transit service is a distinct entity from UMass. Those are two very different things UMass transit service is a an organization that provides the service University is Essentially a customer like we are And so we have arrangements with them that then slice our overall assessment within the town of Amherst into pieces And you can see on that last page of that letter It shows the other communities that also have similar sort of Parsings of their assessment based on mileage and the partnerships they have with the university and or the five colleges, Inc. So that's sort of the first piece and this is based on Like I said on our mileage within the town And so I think our mileage had been fairly steady So I think our overall increase year-over-year is probably about two-and-a-half percent I don't know exactly off the top of my head whether it really was or not Me mr. Bachman can settle that question and then also address the 53 even how it fit relative to that So this is fun. These are these are funds are factored into the budget, but it's on the cherry sheet So it doesn't show up in our actual budget, but it shows up in our budget planning documents So when the assessments come through on the cherry sheet, this is factored into it because it's this is what they've given us So we know what's coming in on the charges on the cherry sheet So that so it doesn't come out of the transportation fund it just already shows up in the cherry sheet so when the Budget Quotes an amount For that We're charged with it was 91,000 was an additional listed. That's for the Root that we pay for entirely because itself in the town that we added Said oh, I'm really confused So we no longer buy any roots separately So I think that the The transportation does fund that portion of it Because it says in the town manager's budget the most recent time in the from January intergovernmental of 91831 includes funds for pta subsidies and taxes To the general fund for parking facilities. That is what the sentence is and so I was Do I assume that some portion of that? And that's where I was getting confused when I was trying to try and track it So are we asking the same question or different question because my question was going to be on this last page where it says that of the Amounts that all went up which were 30,000 more than than the previous year But the amount we pay because we know UMass pays most of it and five colleges pays a large part of it is 132 960 is that the figure we predicted in our budget when we wrote our budget because this obviously came out after our budget did Or had they already told us that's gonna be your number. We already had that number. That was our exact number Yes, okay, so that didn't change so the fact that we had the extra money means it's still extra It wasn't like needing to absorb some of it exactly that exact number It's ultimately what the question is so thank you. Okay. Good. I was hoping we were asking the same question It's less than linear. Let's just say it's how this all fits together, but And to be perfectly honest, it's better than it was because it used to it's more forward funded now than it was in the Past it used to be backward funded and so it was you'd have already in in this circumstance you actually You can budget Knowing the amount as opposed to the past where you budgeted a guess of what you thought it was going to be and then you got the bill For what it really was and so you could be off and you could be off a lot So if you had a lot of construction in your town it changed the mileage significantly you can really have a significant change in your assessment Under the newer system which has been in place about four or five years You can budget an amount that is the amount in advance Just Speaking of the fifty three thousand that was to make up And if if roots were cut that were We wanted to restore and I'm not sure I Understood there was a labor driver issue so things were cut which actually represents some cost savings in the short term But not intentionally if there is now actual route You know If there's a service gap now that we would need to look to the fifty three thousand I mean just because it's appropriate. It doesn't mean it has to be spent It was spent to make up a gap in service if there's not a gap in service Then I'm not sure at this point. We would need to spend it right what we've been looking at as far as the roots are concerned or are In particular and again, you know UMass has some some ideas about some other roots that they have some interest in but the ones We were primarily looking at and this was based in some respects on the public hearings about the reductions that were Potentially going to happen a lot fewer ended up happening that was discussed back in June I think it was or maybe it was earlier than that but the roots are the 3031 33 and 34 now 34 is the campus shuttle which runs a loop and the 35 is a similar but in an opposite direction 33133 And I don't know the order right off the top of my head But you know one of them goes to Sunderland to from Sunderland to Let's say South Amherst. There's one that's called the shopper shuttle Which was actually the paper last Friday relative to changes to the where the bus actually stops And then the third one is North Amherst to Old Belcham road And so the roots that largely run within town and what we've been looking at so two things changed relative to The reductions that needed to be made one was the time between windbuses run They call the headway and the other was the the number of runs how late in the day those runs Occur and that's really the piece that we've looked at more The change in the timing of the of the existing roots is is a much trickier problem to solve because it starts to Interact with because the drive will run one rupee one loop of one run and then go into a different run a different route And so that starts to be a much more complex things to change when we're doing this an infinite contract But to add some on to the end of the day was what we were what we've been looking at and so a Number of those reductions that in those roots that I just mentioned could could be Restored with with the 53 but not all of them So that's part of why we were having a conversation with the University about do they have an opportunity to sort of pick up some of that as well But then of course they raised the question of there are some other roots that that impact Their constituencies That aren't as many you know, they're not as many miles and hammers. They're a lot more miles than other towns And so they have a little different point of view which is understandable relative to that so So we're you know, we had an initial conversation is today We're gonna get some refresh numbers in the next week or so we're gonna meet about a week And kind of go through this again and try to to see if there's a a right fit and mix of things and and And like you say, it's you know, we've we have the appropriation. Do we have to spin it? We don't but we want to be high leverage, but we also want to try to Also think about how to how do we move forward? Relative to this, you know as far as you know our advocacy with with legislature and legislators and and other things to try to have a You know sort of coherent plan of attack relative to this and and trying to keep the the service running it at the best levels We can So not pretending I've ever understood how the amounts are calculated in terms of the assessments And I don't need to that's fine. What I'm trying to get at though is something I think you've both touched on which is that The impact on the services that we've actually seen versus what was predicted versus, you know This has gone through many iterations. Are we paying the same and getting less in a proportional sense? To the other people who are paying for it. So Meaning who is it impacting the most I think is it sounds like one of the conversations You've actually been having is is it mainly impacting for example that campus shuttle, which is you know mostly students Mostly faculty mostly not people just out in the town of Amherst trying to get to a job from their home Because it's starting and stopping on campus versus getting from place getting from a home to a job and job to home Or to shopping or something like that And so I think that's just one of the things that that people wonder about over time is and I And so I wanted to bring it up because I wanted to reinforce that it sounds like you're talking a little bit about that already like these Us these assessments aren't based on and oh then we cut this thing because we didn't have enough drivers So it actually turns out we're shifting who pays what for the assessment or they still have to pay the assessment But they're actually Who's it impacting the most is it impacting townwriters the most is it impacting UMass writers the most is it impacting That going back and forth to Smith College the most you know that that sort of thing And so I think that that's just something that people want to understand better as these things Continue to unfold right part of our contract with with UMass transit service and five colleges ink We have a you know an arrangement with each of them that essentially outlines You know the rules by which we play relative to how those those Roots that have common overlap, you know are divvied up Some routes carry a lot more Towns people per se and we carry a lot more of the burden on those particular routes versus other routes that are like 34 is right almost exclusively students so UMass Does pays for most of that route so so those things are sliced and diced within our arrangement with them In in trying to you know in looking at ridership and you know They do rider surveys and they try to you know over time, you know adjust accordingly in our in our arrangements with those Those other partner organizations, so we do try to keep that in balance As we as we go along so that's also part and parcel of this conversation Two more quick questions. Hopefully one of them super quick which is so we talked about we don't have to spend it We obviously want to leverage it in the most effective way possible What actually happens to the money at the end of the year if we don't spend it? Does it stay in the transportation fund or because it's a transportation fund we have to do something different with it or Where's it go? It's money that came from the transportation fund so it would stay in the transportation fund It came from and it hasn't gone anywhere yet, so it really hasn't it's but it would just stay there It's an enterprise fund but it's the reserve fund for appropriation And if we don't actually spend it then it stays there and it just stays there It's what happens and we just write a line about it in the budget book Okay, so that's cool And then the other one is in regards to the big why shopping Plaza and obviously this is that again that complex situation with On the one hand, it's all about the building owner not necessarily the customers of any of those particular buildings And so that's a whole different conversation But it does impact People who aren't necessarily college students who depend on that bus and they depend on a shelter that doesn't exist on the CVS side of the road and they've been able to shelter at the big why and that just got taken away and so It's hard for people out in the community as was Reflected in the newspaper article to understand that that's just up to the property owner to decide that so What can we tell people? About how that works and and when they say well, we really want that back and it isn't necessarily We don't know what big why is particular opinion is on it versus the you know so that if a customer goes up and complains at the service desk right versus it's the property owner that Big why right leases from and so I'm not really sure what to tell people other than sorry Right, so it is it is a tricky circumstance It's not a public way in other words for the bus, you know the bus essentially, you know You mass transit service essentially needs permission to go into that parking lot, you know And you know essentially the the owners of the building You know the landlords said we're not so comfortable with that for these reasons So you mass transit was like, okay, if you don't want to go there anymore, here's what we'll do so they they are you know Bound in much the same way if we as the town of Amherst said you can't go here anymore because this is too big You know, you can't go on this bridge because your buses are too heavy. They would have to comply with that as well so You know, I think that that how people would I mean, I don't think you know you mass transit service is the sort of the bad guy here They're responding to a request from from a property owner But but I think that that people might be best served to to reach out to either the the clients of you know There are tenants in those buildings and or the the ownership of those buildings would be my suggestion, but Slatter people could reach out the town could reach out. So the town has a Kind of bully pulpit in this. Yes We asked you mass transit the town would like that to be restored and Sometimes the big why owners want something from us. So we have a a little bit different position We we can try asking nicely But I think when when the town calls and says we would like you to come to a meeting to talk about this This is creating problem. What can we do that could work for everybody and maybe it's you can only stand in this Area or well, there was too much. I mean, I don't know if it's solvable But the town can have a strong voice in advocating for the people Who we serve and I don't know I this is not an area. I'm familiar with and you probably know better than me about having an actual bus shelter installed in that general area and if PBTA could you know has looked at that could look at that and You know, maybe if we don't spend the 53,000 on other things Maybe we could help augment that cost too because there's going to be more and more activity along university drive in all kinds of ways So it would benefit by having enhanced public transportation You know, I can tell you just relative to to shelters You know PBT is happy to put them up if they can and it really is about do we have resource? You know, do they have the resources do they have the rights of way sometimes, you know, you run into to rights away circumstances But they do You know look at those regularly and so if we you know make that kind of request they would obviously sort of consider it seriously And it is you know, it is an alternative way to potentially use that that money that would be beneficial So I'll reach out. I'm actually going to be I'll be a PBTA tomorrow actually real not relative to the advisory board but another subcommittee so I'll take a moment and While I'm there and just ask that question around the shelter there just to see the circumstance and and I'll also pose the question relative to you know The changes at the at that at that location, you know, sort of Should we reach out to you know, we as the town reach out to the to the to the building owners or or talk to you mass transit more about what are some alternate things that could be done there from from the standpoint of You know, I think that the concern the building people had was was relative to sort of the bus negotiating the parking lot and so So, you know, those are legitimate concerns on their part and safety questions that they have and so is there something that we as a town could could potentially offer suggestion or or Comment on we can certainly look into that and see what options are available I move that you do those two things I Would like it to be in our records that we that we were advocating for our community this way And through you and I appreciate that and you can write it exactly as you'd like But one is associated with talking with I mean you can bring it up at PBTA But we know that there's going to have to be a conversation with the property owner associate with that And it's not like we told them in that level of detail how to design their parking lot to make it awkward for buses to move through it, I mean there's a lot of mess in terms of how that parking lot was designed and And we could have maybe made it helped them make it a little better, but It's not like something has suddenly happened over time and As we do have continued development on University Drive then more people would want to stop in a bus somewhere along there So that also makes sense from that standpoint, but again for for our community I mean it's one thing if you know you're 19 and you can carry two bags of groceries and you don't mind getting a little wet But we have seen that there's obviously a much larger segment of the population That uses that bus stop and then secondarily to ask about the bus shelter itself And they should be able to come up with that. I know they have rubrics on oh, yeah It's how many trips and then like you said if they have authorization on the property and all that good stuff I mean someone will be simple questions that we can answer relative to our own right of way If we have by virtue of the sidewalks sufficient right of way and clearance relative to you know There's ADA compliance that goes with those shelters and and that sort of thing so We can you know some of those things are things we can check on just relative to or very easily with with PVTA or in concert with them just sort of what the what the options are relative to shelter and then the funding questions a secondary one But but nonetheless it's certainly worth asking those questions, so I will definitely Take those two things two things, you know to the PVTA PVTA tomorrow and ask those questions while I'm there and You know begin the dialogue about about that Do we have a second on a motion that's really not written second I'm trust I'm trusting between mr. Bacow and Ms. Mills and mr. Slaughter you know exactly what we're asking about Yeah, but It would be more easily reflected in the minutes and give us an opportunity to follow up in future We find my motion sheet so I can make a note of it on my motion sheet, but Was there for the discussion on that sorry Hearing none all those in favor, please say aye Post so that's unanimous and I will as I said take that up with with PVTA starting tomorrow. It'll be a I think I'm Multiple conversations will be involved, but that's quite all right. I'm gonna be there Regularly anyway, so we'll be in touch with them regularly about about that So we'll we'll touch base on that topic and we again appreciate the extra effort It takes to go to Springfield to deal with all these questions that you've been doing for us, so thank you my pleasure So next up we have shade to regulations and as I said earlier in our meeting I don't think we'll actually adopt those, but I did want to give us an opportunity to Offer or provide a little bit additional comment. I know that at least one member had some some additional things They wanted to mention relative to that Particular item And so if we'll Locate that in our packet So one thing I noticed is that we had we added you know new format and then it went back to the old format So we have a new format suggested by the bylaw review committee with the fines all at the beginning and that sort of thing so I mean that doesn't materially change some of the things but There were some there was a Mimo from Mr. Bachman relative to the shade to regulations did you want to go through that memo a little bit with us or Just to note that Comments that were adjusted were recommended by town council by think that You know as members had comments that we can Include in the next version that you get next week and appreciate hearing them now So I didn't even notice the format. So thank you mr. Slaughter because I'm not used to the new one yet You know some of it's just the stuff that we notice we say, you know, it's not actually a number a Letter e or something. It's actually a standalone section I can give that material that's mostly just typographical, but there are actually some substantive things here that concern me and One is well, and I would like us to have the chart the charge in our packet next time as well for the public Shaitree committee but in terms of substantive issues the I Think it should be made clear on page four and this is this is my fault for not noticing this one before I'll take full credit for that under g1 talking about anyone wishing to remove Or prune a public shade tree must submit a written application the tree warden I think it should elaborate here that the tree warden then has to determine whether or not the trees in fact within the public right away I'm concerned about people coming to the counter being told that's probably not the public right away, and I think people should consider I think we should Consider that being just if the trees not within the public right away then the tree warden just says nope that one's fine But rather than it just being informal it feels Given that there are all these punishments associated with it It feels like if there's any question people should go ahead and do an application which then leads us to page five Where I'm really confused by where we ended up in the fees section because in the fees section It says all applications for removal or pruning a public shade tree shall be accompanied by a fee of 90 per ounce per inch of the tree to be removed, but There's a couple problems with that one is that You know it might not actually be a public shade tree So you don't need to write a check if it's not actually a real thing and that again leads us back to the do you really want an informal? Assertation of the ascertainment by it doesn't going to be the tree warden standing there at the counter And the second is that you can't waive something if you've already made them pay it And so I'm confused about something Getting pushed together and then it's also says the applicants responsible for costs associated with advertising for the public hearing Then I'm not really sure what the fee is paying for And I think we should be clear on that what the purpose of the fee is I would think that rather than trying to add on a bill for Legal notice we should just go ahead and incorporate that in whatever fee we're charging or however we do that normally but Any board a butter notification they pay. How do they go about doing that though? Hand in the cards that shows that they sent it out, but it's on their dime But see extra to the fee, but see that's what I'm saying. This says advertising for the public hearing So how are they gonna pay for the public hearing? I mean Who's gonna give them a bill? I don't understand how that would actually work and some I'm sure there's give them a bill That's how it's done. So so that gets done at the same time as An application is made that has a fee per inch that might get waived I'm I'm very confused So if you're making people pay when they do the application Then it's determined that Walk me through it. I mean, how can you wave a fee if you've already paid it? So if someone says I'd like here's here's the fee I mean It's like what we recommend when people get a parking fine You pay it and then you ask for it to be rescinded or waived and we pay if we send a check back We're talking thousands of dollars on some of these that we don't gonna ask people to spend thousands of dollars up front And then wave it later. Are we I? Just find that very strange It wouldn't you make the determination first of whether The fee will be applicable and what the fee will be Like what if there's six trees which we've seen one has to not determine the diameter and Whether they're in the public right away or not and then say well the real cost Is only you know three trees not six trees. So then we've just so they'd have to pay for six trees and then get reimbursed for Three that weren't applicable after the determination was made Mr. Semmer yeah, well a couple things one is I would suggest that because we're talking all about one section H in The first paragraph starts as has been quoted many times all applications So be accompanied by a fee and then the last paragraph says that the trade tree warden may waive the removal fee It was it can be assumed whether it's clear enough However is the judgment call. I think we need to make but I think it can be assumed that the fourth paragraph is To be read in conjunction with the first paragraph and So that it really takes care of it as a self-contained document the other thing that I would ask however is In the first sentence there we use the term dmb Which is different from any other term we use because it's Dbh in every other place that we use the term So is that intended to be dbh? Measured it right, but it's not to be be but it should be spelled up dbh not dmb, right Diameter measure that breast dmb, but it's not defined. That was my answer. It's not defined No, but it's not the other one Andy. It's it is it actually is the other one. It's the other one Well, that's what we're trying to figure out if there's this if it's the real if it is a separate one Then it's missing from the definition section, and it isn't a separate one That's the point exactly It was it really struck me as an undefined term, and then I realized maybe it wasn't the question of an undefined term Mr. Well, yeah, I'm glad mr. Steinberg caught that because I noticed that too and on that same issue if you look at the definitions on page one paragraph 2 critical root zone refers to dbh but dbh isn't defined until paragraph 3 so that Probably is an issue. I had a very very minor and glad Miss Brewer raised these questions too about the Defines, which made me think of something. It's actually pretty minor, but as long as we're doing all this due diligence and thinking like minor. Yeah the Process that was described says on the top of page 4 G1 refers to Writing on a piece of paper. I mean it's an entirely serious question. It's trivial, but you know, do we have application? Do we have you know for some of we consider email and adequate means of informing people sometimes require a written postcard being sent Do we have electronic means for applications or does require paper application filled out on site or and I'm just wondering if there's a general town I don't know the answer that question. Yeah, I Can find out So my issue and I'm glad we're not voting to adopt this tonight is and I've raised I've raised this repeatedly I am not comfortable with the waiver for hardship unless there's some Something written that explains how that will be determined So that it's applied consistently if it's based on income Circumstance I want to written hardship policy that somebody can look at and say it was applied Equitably to all people who asked for the hardship waiver and without that I can't vote to adopt this I'm maybe the minority, but I'm really frustrated that we just say if a warden may waive for hardship That's just not acceptable to me So I think if I may so I think town council's response to that question was There is no definition. I think the question last time was what is the definition? There is no definition. So if we want to create a definition we would or remove the the waiver for hardship provision I don't know how you would Go about I Mean it would take an substantial amount of work I think to determine a process to To do it and I think that's your point is that there is who's going to make that determination says the tree warden And what standard is the tree warden going to use and I think that's a legitimate point I post you know in the cover memo. I post it to town council. This was town council's response And her response would basically be consistent whatever you do just be consistent and that's not adequate I mean I'm reading from you It's not because I've seen I just know how these things go or you have one Everybody's very vigilant about having a standard and another one who sees oh well, they're you know, they're two professors. So Not a hardship. Oh well this person. I know their family and other really having a hard time That's I don't want it to be a sliding scale on income then just print a sliding scale on income Would you be okay with removing them? I don't want to remove the hardship either because this is really pricey for some people and it's also sometimes a Safety issue for sight visibility and all kinds of reasons and so It's simpler to remove it, but I'm right option Not I'd rather see some attempt to scale it to something we already do where we do We'll look and see if there's some other Trying to think if there's any provision that provides a hardship waiver and for fees like this that we could just steal from We'll do some of the town may have something to Strong I mean the only I can think which is not a fee based one But we've enacted the historic local historic district legislation We had a provision there for hard, you know, you could have a hard or demolition delay You know hardship wasn't it's an allowable justifications For a waiver but it's not defined there's not an income grade that goes along right That's what I'm saying make you're pleading to the historical Commission They say well that sounds like a hardship to me you get it right so that's that's the way it's operated They are just based on the common sense one hopes of the enforcing body So a couple of other substantive rather than the typo for example of saying $300 without the zero zero and five hundred with because I know we don't pay KP law to make corrections like that but I I would like us to discuss Briefly two separate issues one is well actually I'm gonna go back to the thing about the removal and the waiver in terms of It needs to be clear how the application process works without putting that in the regulation Which I can totally appreciate because it might become electronic it might go through a different department whatever But it needs to be clear that You come in and you say I think this is a public shade tree And I want to get rid of it and then the tree warden can say no, it's not check You're done as opposed to whatever wonderful person we have at the counter who doesn't actually isn't the tree warden And then secondly if it's not true, okay, now you're gonna do an application It's gonna probably cost you you know X amount of dollars Rough case because it's 90, you know how big is your tree? You know they could give them a bit ball estimate. Do you still want to keep pursue this? Yes, okay? So then the tree warden is gonna have to figure out in there, you know If it's six trees versus one tree that is a huge amount of money And so expecting somebody to write a check for six thousand dollars to get the process going seems Unreasonable to me and without knowing what the discretion Policy is associated with appeal So I I don't think that just you know putting sentences one and four closer together Really helps because part of the problem here is we say an Applications accompanied by a fee then it says it's a removal fee So it's like is it an application fees that are removed? There just needs to be a little wordsmithing to clarify what's going on there sort of order of events and sort of You know, do we is the fee charged in the on the front end or? I Get your point is that really before you cut the tree? I mean, we know that part You can't cut it down till you give us some money, but you have to have a hearing too But right, but do you have to write a check at the very beginning or is it like step two of writing a check? articulating and then if it's step two then maybe That's when the waiver coming. I don't know where at which point the way the process comes I would suggest you you know, you make the application the tree warden would make the determination about Which trees are public or not What size is the official size therefore what the cost would be What the advertising would cost because I presume that's a fairly fixed thing So that would all be you know sort of reporting back to the person and then you know So balls in their court to move it ahead and you know, then they can apply for hardship waiver at that point and So just kind of articulating those steps in it. I Think I think I think our people work the counters do that already when people come in for a common-bick license We tell them what it costs and we know or if you know There's the schedule there and our our staff are trained to help people and not they don't require them to pay for something They don't need So if someone comes in for a building permit and they say you may not need a building permit for this They check on it first before they say well, this is may not be in the public way or not You have to give some credit to our staff that they're gonna guide people appropriately and not they're not gonna say I can't accept this without they're gonna say well, maybe it's not in the public way. Let's check on that first I think there's some common sense things that our staff are used to dealing with people and they don't expect people to know This is going in so so maybe to be clear. I'm not saying they aren't capable of getting the answer I'm saying they aren't necessarily gonna be able to get the answer for the person while they're standing there Just like they might not be able to get an answer on whether or not you can build a fence next to your house because it's too close to the Property line. We are not spitballing those answers. It's real Actual data they go and get I understand that and so that's what I'm trying to say is that we It's not I don't think no matter how well trained they are the person at the counter is nest is really Unless they're going to talk to the tree warden to find out if it's in the public way They're not going to base it on their interpretation of GIS. They need to find out from the tree warden at some point in there I would should think but that may not be an immediate process. I mean Doesn't have to be on speed dial. It's that you turn it in and you'll find out Well, we'll let you know if it's if I think the normal process is they call the tree warden Say can you meet this person at their house and look at the tree? Tree warden give some advice right then there and that's typically the way we would manage this We don't this tree warden doesn't say I don't have an application I can't go out and meet with someone they go and they meet with a person and they say I need to check on whether it's in the public way or not and nice. So I think I Just don't know if we're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist so maybe with putting a lot of detail into this that might Say well, you can't process it until you get whatever it is So you might be able to remove some wording in order to reflect that rather than trying to add more to explain It away, just remove more to make it clearer that this that this is going to be handled But we don't have we don't want this step-by-step process in here The other two issues are associated with one I appreciate that that town council finally defined for us the 300 versus 500 issue that we keep going around in circles about But I think we need to make a decision as to whether or not we're willing to We're we're willing to put into the regulation because the by-law allows us to do that But that doesn't mean we have to do it And so I think we have to make a decision as to whether or not we're ever going to Think that it's appropriate to do a criminal disposition and if we don't we should take that out of the regulation and Leave that to the next body of people to review the by-law and then my other concern is associated with who is The court of appeal so to speak and before it gets to the actual court and currently that's the select board Which I have felt comfortable with as an elected body and we haven't done too many of these luckily But we have had to do that to put it back to the public shade tree committee feels entirely inappropriate to me So I'm with the new form of government. We you know, there is no automatic one-to-one correspondence as the by-law Review committee is finding that that's supremely obvious, although they're getting really good at it Defining who would do what it appears that it would go rather than the select board since it's an executive function Unless MGL states otherwise it would go back to the town manager, which is also not an elected position But feel is a separate Person then the public shade tree committee, which I don't think is appropriate as the as the appeal of Basically the public shade tree committee and the tree warden's opinion. So I Don't think it should be so I think we need to clarify that language I appreciate that that option was offered to us, but I don't think that's the appropriate way to go You know another body that could serve that function is the planning board because they deal with trees They do see me they do scenic stuff already because that's already mentioned in here They have the advantage of being appointed by the council So, okay, but that's only in at an appeal level right hopefully it never gets to but but if it does Yeah Nothing's appointed by the council basically Finance committee that's really the council's committee It's an idea I was thinking maybe one way to solve the hardship waiver thing is to say some place that the Hardship standards Will Be promulgated and reviewed by the town manager or someplace that refers to a future Schedule without having it but let it be known that there's something that's going to get created and that would go through our chief executive officer and so that there's Something and it gives you some time without holding this up until we figure out all the little nubbies Right because we know the concept was in there. Are there other comments? What about the criminal dispensers? What about the criminal disposition? So do we think it's appropriate to offer both options or do we want to just offer one?  You know a landmark tree. Let's say right with the the grace and elm or something like you know, what if one Really did something saw it right just that it deserved greater punishment. I don't know, but that's again an exceptional case I mean town town attorney does say in my experience. It's more difficult to collect fines through the criminal process But she provided both options for your consideration Well, I think that the the reason for that is I think we find that with with our collection of fines relative to police action because the police will issue Like speeding tickets, and they'll get you know courts can then change the amount What happens? And so I think that's why they say that it's more difficult to the criminal process comes away the mall together, so I think that's a concern Perhaps as well I mean you can leave both in here as an option Well then it's a The question is do we want to offer that discretion or do we want to say the worst you can do to someone is 300? I appreciate your point about if it's a particularly egregious thing I think that there's a little bit of wordsmithing to be done there. There's no however that belongs in there It's just either it's enforced this way or it's enforced that way. It's not however in accordance, but Then that's a discretionary issue as well as to whether or not the town's going to pursue that But the town decides whether or not to pursue things all the time. So I mean I could live with that I don't see I you know I'm reflecting back to when we had a conversation about public consumption of marijuana, right? And we said well, let's use the same fine as we use for alcohol and people said no, that's too high I think this is different, and I think there might very well be a specific historic thing that We need to send a message. I'm not really sure what it solves if the trees already ruined You know at that point, but if it's somehow more of a deterrent Trees still gone unfortunately It's not much of a deterrent to them So do we want to just leave the option in and just fix the wording a little bit Right, but I mean it needs to be edited so that we can approve it the next time rather than having to redo this for the Okay, so leave in both I mean I think that the reason that you get into the greater difficulty with criminal Prosecution fines is that there's whole layers of discretion that get then added in by potentially the district attorney and Staff at the court if it goes through the magistrate hearing first and then there's a whole appeal process and Just then get up to the you know to a judge direct after that When we talk about this at the Campus and community coalition there are times when We sort of hear back that the judges will not Pursue some of the fees the fines is greatly as we might have thought that they would and that that's judges discretion and Maybe the judges doesn't be kinder than we are who knows will they see a lot more So it that's why it becomes more complicated, but it to leave the option in there and In the really egregious situation as mr. Walde described earlier It may be that in consultation with The various players that the case can be made that it's an appropriate action to take Because they cut down the merry maple Okay, I think I got all the comments all right anything else yes, mr. Would you send us the word version that's in the new format and Then we can check and make sure we feel I mean I can send you some the really simple red line things Who knows maybe somebody else want to do that too? All right, so I think we've Take that one So next on our agenda is a state and town election warrants for the election on November 6th. We've got demo from I Believe the Board of Registrar's now from the clerk So if you want to take us through that and I think this is You have two election warrants that's typically that you receive and then you have to sign them you have the sign in your sign folder This comes from the town clerk and it says pretty standard things so she can post the warrant and get the Get them posted and so public note it gives advance warning to the public that there are there are two elections coming up Were there any questions relative to those notices not that I would entertain the appropriate motion relative to those Wait, yes, we do we have one motion I'll move for a move to authorize The warrant for the town and state elections November 6th 2018 Second the motion in a second Yeah, that's where I'm trying to find it. What's the question? Number of stapled to something else Yes, it was stapled to the shade tree. Yes, just to keep us guessing As was that a letter about voting day in Crocker-Farm school shady not stapled to shade tree information So we have a motion And it has been seconded Is there further discussion of things that? The only the only thing it doesn't change the motion But I wonder if we might include at our minutes reflecting this last letter that's attached here Which is that the voting day is obviously the voting day because it's the state voting day But that it's actually a professional development day in the schools and so We won't be had something along something shows that That's been addressed by the schools for that particular election and that then they're on we know they're ongoing conversations About that moving forward. So yes, it the conflict that has arisen in past elections and we've heard notice from From various schools Is resolved for this election by virtue of the fact that like you say it's a professional development day So only adults will be in the building works was almost exclusively adults will be in the building Is there further discussion? Hearing none all those in favor, please say aye So that's unanimous Is now set very to be able to vote You know things to sign relative to that rifle paper That's good So that takes care of that. So next our generous chart transition update topics for future counsel Yes, here's things with us, mr. Good. Um, so the bylaw review committee has Continues to meet they sent an invitation to the members of the board if any of you are interested in Meeting with them to convey thoughts that you may have they're meeting pretty much weekly during October They are meeting at the end of the month with former senator sent president Rosenberg to gather his knowledge and So there are I think there's an actual letter with actual dates of their meetings and if there's other dates Going into November that you'd like to meet I think they could probably accommodate you But I think they're trying to wrap up their their business and just let me or Jeff Kravitz the staff person know What is your what your desire is for that? If you look on the floor, you will see Tape on the floor and this is going to be this is the outline for the new council Seating area this is going to be built into the Tomorrow and Thursday tomorrow and Wednesday. They're going to be building a wall that will eventually accommodate Desks for 13 people to sit at and pretty much this kind of configuration We we took this vision where You could everybody can see each other as best as possible versus I'm told that The people used to sit lengthwise up here But I know that that's a problem that you can't see each other and you and the whole purpose of the council is to be able To have a conversation together So this we sort of scoped it out and tried to figure out how many people we could how we could get 13 people here We've looked at a lots of different setups at different communities and reserve enough seating for the Vast members of the public who want to come but there will be more Where does the staff go? The staff will be at a separate table They'll have a table like this for people presenting to the council and then the staff have a separate table You know one of the things we talked about was should the manager be like this or not and I think in Reflecting on it. It was pretty obvious that the council is the council. That's our legislative form And they are independent of the manager form. So Even though the manager serves the council But we thought it was more important for the manager and other staff to be set aside So the council could conduct its business And that's sort of the layout now this room back here, which is usually just storage The intent is to put a wall there and have a doorway and have a place for council members to come in If they have an umbrella or a jacket They want to hang up there be a place back there if they need to take a phone call They don't have to walk out into the hall into where all the people are they can take a phone call back there I Know one community we were in they had a table with chairs But then they found out too many counselors were gathering back there at one time So those they took out enough chair so it never created a quorum But you know so if you are running late from the meeting or if you come to the meeting you're here 10 minutes early You don't want to eat in front of everybody. You need to sit back there and just sort of some time So there'll be a space and maybe we might put will put well I'm not sure we'll put back there, you know council chambers of a sort. Yeah anti chambers, right? Yeah, right? It's where this it's where the ropes will hang right Yeah There will be no platform, you know the people someone asked if with us the council's gonna be raised No, the council will not be raised and it just presents a lot of ADA issues if we did The one thing the building inspector asked us if we can the white tape is pretty Detailed if you don't if you can avoid rolling over it and screwing that up because that's what they're really building on The way that we're doing it We're using our internal staff who are really excited about doing it to build as much as we can We have the carpenter from the DPW and a Facilities person from our facility staff teaming up to build the sort of rough construction part of it Then we are we have a couple of fine finished carpenters who happen to be building inspectors who've asked if they can do the fine finish work because they want to take pride in the work and that's really exciting for us because We thought we're gonna have to contract this out But we're we happen to have a lot of talent on our staff in the inspections department who are taking this on as A project themselves. We've obviously have gotten all the permits that we need The IT department is organizing the technology we will have all brand new technology in here Just taking the opportunity to upgrade everything because this is also utilizing some of the The what Amherst media was going to do anyway under our new contract so upgrading our Technology so there will be screens on both sides So wherever you're sitting in the audience or as a member of the council, you'll be able to see The the screen that's being used We're hoping to use screens a lot more often and to have them on regularly So at least at the worst case that the agenda is presented or you'll see something what so people can sort of follow along If they're having a hard time hearing they can see where we are so making that as a normal part of our meeting So that's sort of you know, we think we can get 60 seats in here. I think it's gonna be a little tight with 60, but There's there's about 50 in here now, so If we put them tight we can get 60 They're like they do at stadiums where it's been seating everybody gets you know like 14 inches So the I think the meeting space might be a little bit narrower than this just because it might be 30 inches I think it is but But it neat we need we were pretty clear that most people from other councils that some councils had just tables and people wanted Their own private space. They needed a little divider or something that indicated This is my space and you're not spreading out into my space and that was that was a feedback that some council Some town managers had gotten from their council members after they built it So we're gonna try to do some divider might not happen right away because we're sort of pushing to get this done As quickly as possible, you know finish nothing fancy. It's gonna be pretty simple pretty plain But I think our old part people will take good pride, you know pride in and constructing it ourselves So that's really exciting and that's why you see the wood here This they will have the wall up without the finish work in a couple days. It won't it will mean that we will Will be meeting inside the the wall Or will we can meet and outside it but more likely inside and so meetings will continue to be able to go on here during the course, but we've also freed up Rooms at the Jones Library and the Bank Center and the community room at the police station to in case the space is not available We during constructions period Those rooms are all gonna be available and we're gonna accommodate meetings that are going on regularly anyway I Call it a wall. It's really the like if you say this a wall The building commissioner called it a wall, that's why I called wall. Yeah, the framing of the seating area Right I Was something different is there gonna be a designated press area and enforced We have a table in the back of the room That's a movable table and the staff table and the visitor's table and the This press table are all movable So if there's something else going on and here we need to get those out of the way we will This will be structural For two good for two reasons one was We just didn't want Mary pulling in 13 of these things and pulling them out and also for the technology makes a lot of difference for Amherst media that the The technology will be will be buried and plugged in. They don't have to assemble this every time And because there's fixed seating when they assign their cameras, they can just say seat six seats five They don't have to refocus on whoever speaking they can just hit a button and a reprogram to whatever That's who happens to be sitting in that seat So there are a lot of advantages to having fixed seating for Broadcast and if we do remote broadcasts, which we hope to get to where we don't need someone physically here There'll be a camera in the back of the room that can just be on and we can activate that and that's where we want to be So that wherever we want the goal would be to have every meeting broadcast or recorded at least maybe not broadcast live Recorded and some communities have achieved that and that's I think that would be a really good goal for us to say every meeting Is recorded and you can watch it on I just meant, you know, we had some issues occasionally with the press not being identified or the press wandering around and taking pictures and so forth and it might be a good opportunity to Cultivate an understanding of what the expectations are especially because I assume that with a new council There'd be a lot more interest maybe other press Groups will start covering again I was just a little confused but by what you said about meetings, so Obviously all the council meetings would be broadcast But once there's this fixed furniture arrangement in place then how does planning board and other bodies that normally work fit here? And will they continue to meet here probably and you're talking about I mean we already do a number of those meetings But you're just saying there could Whatever meetings are held in here in addition to council meetings. We could also tape then So two answers one is the the ZBA or the planning board any board could still meet in the same setup And actually it'd be a better format than having your back if you sit at a table and you're back But they can still there'll be 13. There's no board. That's well Maybe Kana Kosaki or somebody like that, but there's very few boards that are larger than 13 You just wouldn't all of them right you could spread out a little bit more In terms of what I was talking about in terms of recording meetings Amherst meetings by contract has to record meetings But the other meetings suppose we have a public shade tree committee hearing right They may not be here But what we'd like to be able to do is have it in any staff person can come in put in their code and record the meeting and You know code out when you're finished and then that gets uploaded the next day to the website That's that's how I've seen other communities do it so that it's a And we'd like to do that with multiple rooms So that's every every meet right now You see the finance committee the way they meet now and they bring in their portable stuff You know, we can put something on that just it's a fixed thing They don't it won't you won't get the zoom in on who's speaking, but it'll record You don't have to wait till some communities minutes are posted when you want to find out what happened So That's the stuff happening here. You'll see I mean you see it already. You'll see more of it next week I'm not sure exactly how this configuration will work going forward But we'll figure it out. I mean we what we might do is we might even relocate Our ourselves over there and have seating up this way. So we just haven't I don't really know how Chairs in the framework. No place to fix that Well, Mike's dangling from but we can move this whole setup against that wall So a few others I have a lot of other things the board of licensed commissioners We are looking at staffing for that that again I mentioned to you previously that this would be the we're trying to Consolidate all the licensing functions on the second floor We are negotiating with our union and we'll be presenting some organizational concepts to the personnel board at their next meeting and So there are a number of things that we're putting into play on that but that is the first commission that has to be up and running and That's where the organization of it will will happen. It'll be on the second floor For the council we've I have Asked the council candidates to hold November 19th and 29th for possible meetings Why those two dates when you look at the calendar the townwide calendar your meeting a lot of Monday a lot of Mondays during that week There is there are two sets of holidays during the week. I just chose two dates that were late enough after the Council election should be determined plus account accounting for a possible recount and that also all Voted council members could be present for those first two meetings that those two meetings are the councils permitted before they're actually sworn in officially, but they would be sworn in some way to To take action on Choosing a chair or a president and vice president of the council to meet with the The bylaw review committee and to start to review applicants for the license commission Those are the three actions that they're allowed to start to to take In addition, I've scheduled the our town attorney to come in on November 29th to do a training for state ethics law open meeting law and public records law I think it's really important for our counselors to get that training up front That's also probably the date that will have our bylaw review committee come in because town attorney will be here anyway I'm assuming that the first day their first official meeting will be December 3rd, which is the first Monday in December And they're the swearing in would be December 2nd at 1 p.m We'll talk a little bit more about that in a second and that we've sort of are holding a day Not sure what time of date of December 1st for the select board's final meeti