y own work. When I was doing this, playing around with this notion, I looked at my own plays. So I have three plays, Falme Yoha, I have Alionja Peppo, and I have a third play which is living up to its name, a series. Nobody knows about it, you see this series. So I don't think there's anyone here who has probably read series, okay, right. So what is the structure in these three? And I was really amazed to look at it, that they all have this central authority in all the three, like Shaban Robert. In both there are Kusarikika and Kufkirika, there's the Sultan. And I thought, you have in Falme Yoha, the very title of Falme and that character, he's a king, he's a Sultan. And then you go to Alionja Peppo, you don't see him, but there is this, somebody called Wamkuba, the big man, and all the action sort of is propelled in a sense by him because he is the upper one in heaven. And then of course you have Siri, which I haven't read, but I'll tell you that it is, there also you have a Sultan. So when I started thinking about it, then I thought, perhaps it's my own upbringing as well, looking, listening to all these stories of the Alflela Unela, which talks of Sultans and all. And then of course it was the Zanzibar Sultanate. And then I came to this country long ago in 1960 with a passport which said, British protected person of Zanzibar. And so I thought, perhaps that might have also influenced me unconsciously. And so therefore you have this. So now if at all, absolutely good, one minute. So if at all, I do veer away from this now, I hope it will be to write something in a very sort of unauthorized or un, I don't know what's the word, unscented, non-centred political milieu. Thank you very much, as I think it's like. The one is here, I appreciate it. I'm Yambu, my baby name is Banna, I'm from China. My name is Ding Rui Ling and I'm a personal graduate student from Beijing Foreign Studies University. Today, my topic is translations of British literature into Kiswahili and the paradox of literary modernity in the colonial context. It will be divided into five parts and I'm going to discuss a relationship between translation and literary modernity. And the colonial ideology and the selection of literary texts, also translation strategies, and I'm going to briefly reevaluate in the first generation of Swahili novels. I think in today, in a globalized world, political and economic progress, in various nations has fostered increased cultural diversity. Civilizations, nations and cultures once marginalized on the Western hegemony and can now wield influence on the international stage. So the modernity, this concept becomes more complicated and instead of a concept that is only defined by Western paradigms. So I think there's a need for us to reconsider this concept under various contexts. And there are many research on Swahili literary translations, however, there's still a gap regarding the underexplored domain of literary modernity. And there's still a lack of enough translations, enough research on translations during British colonial era. And I think many of them didn't contextualize the relationship between translations, power and the literary modernity. So my research analytical perspective is from our nickel power relations in cultural exchange. I'm going to ask, who defined the concept of literary modernity and what's the rationale and the methodology behind its definition? Can colonial literary translations be seen as modernity, modernity, modernity? Modernity or do they reflect on nickel power dynamics or ideologies of British creators? And modernity is a concept characterized by its dynamic and unstable nature. I think whatever the Western scholars or Chinese scholars may hold different attitudes to what this concept and there are already many interpretations of modernity. So I just conclude some keywords which are fluid, ever-changing, dynamic, progress novel, revolutionary. I think in one word, modernity is progressiveness and literary modernity is intricately intertwined with the social development. For example, in Western literature, it aligns precisely with the modernization of society. And there exists a mutual influence between literature and the society. So in my opinion, literary modernity has the potential to instigate positive changes in society to a certain extent. However, modernity is a concept often defined by powerful nations. So how can an underdevelopment society attain modernity? Well, I think until recently, many scholars claim that those societies can attain this kind of modernity in various ways. Translation is one of the most important ways. Just like Pascal Casanova highlights, translation is a mechanism of consecration in literary world. And also Chinese scholar Luo Xuanming states that translation can introduce new vocabulary, syntax, literary forms and expressions. For example, in modern China, translation has made substantial contributions to the development of language, literature and even society. However, every coin has two sides because translation can be an ideologically influenced tool capable of challenging the prevailing literary values of the targeted society and disseminating discourse, consolidating power. So many scholars actually based their conclusions on the presumption of native or local translators. But what about another situation which is dominated by foreign translators or exogenous translators? For example, during the colonial period, there's obvious unequal power of translators because foreign translators or, should I say, British translators were in the whole process. Well, the locals were marginalized and their objectives can be quite different from the normal one where we often speak. For example, their translations aimed at consolidating colonial power and colonial discourse, providing limited education to the colonized and challenging the traditional literary values while concurrently constructing the new one that aligns with their paradigms. So asymmetrical power relations could significantly influence the definition and the shape and the formation of modernity. And in the next part, I will discuss colonial ideology, power, and the selection of literary texts. Well, my focus will be on the reasons of the selection of popular literature, why they were chosen. There were some driving forces as we all know, standardization of Kiswahili, construction of a colonial educational system, civilizational mission. And here I want to add one more thing which is Orientalist bias. As you can see, I listed some translated British literature here, Treasure Island, King Solomon's Mines, Gulliver's Travels, and so on, which are almost Victorian novels. And I categorized them into two groups which are colonial literature represented by King Solomon's Mines and the other with less colonial tendency or orientation represented by Gulliver's Travels and Alice in Wonderland. However, they also share some common features which are conquest, imperialism, adventure, global travel, which are closely associated with colonial expansion and they are popular fiction. However, even though they are popular fiction, I agree with that they have specific functions in different societies. For example, in British society, they educated, shaped cultural identity and imperial consciousness. And in East African society, they can stimulate imagination, creativity, really find the perception about the self and the other and consolidating colonial power and discourse. So to a limited extent, I think they actually showed some aspects of literary modernity in secularism, new literary genres and life experiences and thoughts. However, they couldn't represent the literary modernity capable of instigating positive social changes. I mean, if the colonizers truly wanted to introduce literary modernity, why the Charles Dickens works or James Joyce works were absent? Why were just this popular literature chosen? And in the next part, I'm going to discuss the translation strategies and the distortion of this kind of literary modernity. Here I, well, I think there are actually many translation strategies during that time, but I conclude them into three words, simplification, deletion and reconstruction. So why did they happen? Here I want to mention the Orientalist bias because Kiswahili was regarded as inadequate for adopting advanced and valuable literary works. And local individuals maybe mischaracterized as not being attuned to more complex ideas or about the sort. So in this sense, they changed the original texts should I say completely or significantly. For example, simplification. Well, many intricate portrayals of the environment, characters, actions, event details and so on were simplified and also literary expressions and some straightforward linguistic strategies were adopted. And I think deletion is actually more important than simplification because deletion made the whole original text look like very strange. And so narratives that did not feed the colonial discourse were removed or altered. And if you look at every front page of the translated texts, you can see this sentence, Kitabuk in the Fupishwanakwon dippau upia. Now, basi hapa tumah hitajiku liza kwa kya tsigani vi meand dippau upia. Yeah, to some extent, I would like to call it a reconstruction because several texts underwent extensive alterations to the extent that they were stripped of their original value and the meaning such as Gulliver's Travels, which will be discussed in later and at least in Wonderland. Here I want to give two examples of King Solomon's Mines, representing colonial literature and the other ones Gulliver's Travels representing the other groups. So here you can see that simplification. In chapter 16, this whole narrative was simplified to just one sentence. You can see actually Haggard described this sculptures and this environment in very detailed way. However, in Johnson's translation, we can only say one sentence, which is hapa tumah hitajiku liza kwa kya tsigani vi meand dippau upia. Now, to some extent, it was a very simple sentence. Just very simple one sentence. And the next is deletion of specific narratives. This, as we know, the King Solomon's Mines actually aims at portraying white men as saviors and the guards of black people. However, this one stated by Ignacy run counter to the original A of the author, because he stated that white men will not be allowed to go into his reign anymore. And in the same ravine, the concluding portion was also removed, involving a letter penned by Sir Henry to court mine that underscores the potential for amassing wealth through the acquisition of those diamonds. Well, in plain terms, white men were described as avaricious and greedy in this letter. So this letter is actually not fitted into the colonial discourse. And the next one is Gulliver's travels. I think this translation was significantly abridged. I couldn't call it a satirical novel. Instead, rather, I would like to call it a travelogue. It was totally changed. For example, the chapters of La Puta and the Huiming, which serve as the type of British society during a certain era were completely excised. And the translator extensively altered the contents of the remained chapters resulting in a complete departure of the intended meaning of the original text. For example, as you can see here, in chapter six, substantial portions of spherical descriptions were deleted, including criticisms of the legal system, the selection of officials, crafty theft and educational practices, and also the satire target monarchy in chapter seven and criticism against European philosophy were all gone. And the description of baggers in chapter four was also removed. However, what was remained was the main contents which were actually lacking logic. And you can see it's just like a literature for children and it was actually for children. However, in this sense, I would like to add that translation should be for children and for adults. However, during colonial period, there was only this kind of translation for children. There was no other translations for adults of Gulliver's travels. So behind this kind of phenomenon, I would like to call it an unequal power relations because the British translators were actually dominant in never link of the translation. So they shaped the ultimate form of the translations and there's an obvious transcendence of power because translation should have been a multi-faceted process engaged by different stakeholders, such as publishers, editors, translators, reviews and even government officials. However, there were only colonizers in dominating in the whole process. And so these translators can assume the role of authors in the whole translation process just like the sentence you saw in the previous PowerPoints, Kitabu Hikikime from Pisho Anekwon, Dikua Wupia. So does he have the authority to rewrite or to make so much changes to the original text? Well, in my opinion, I think the authors actually did not have these powers to do that. And obviously local translators were marginalized and silenced. So in this sense, the literary modernity emanating from these kinds of strategies and popular literature or simplified linguistic styles represented a cultural hegemony because simplified and colloquial translation were considered emblematic of literary modernity were backed by both colonial authorities and the policies and institutions that supported this concept. Because when we're analyzed from a linguistic view, maybe we can say that the literary expression since Swahili poetry or the Tanzi can be more modern and this new commerce can be deemed as backward and regressive. So in the last part, I will briefly reevaluate this modern Swahili novels based on this kind of literary modernity. So in the politicized context, new thoughts, genres and expressions are not completely equal to literary modernity. We should ask that, is there the ability to make a complete story, conveying new thoughts and adopting new genres can be deemed as modern or is there more to it? Because when we look at Uhuruwa Tumwa and other novels in the influence of literary translations such as Muzimawa Wakaelek, Sima Chaki Ningi, Kurana Dodo, Captain Fikilin, we can see that they are actually translations of translations. And even Sheba Robert, the Kusari Kika is actually an obvious imitation of Gulliver's travels. And in his works, we know that there's an obvious utopianism. However, is this utopianism coming from his life experiences or just Swahili oral stories or Arabic stories? Well, I think there's another one which is Victorian idealism. Because this kind of idealism underscores that every man can attain a success and the wealth by diligence. And they're always happy ending or triumphed endings. And also, Sheba Robert advocates for Tawala Bola instead of questioning the legitimacy of colonial rule. Because in his works, we can see that good leaders should possess the ability to put the well-being of the nation at the forefront and should be open to views. So does that imply that any leaders possessing those qualities can be deemed as good leaders even if colonized? So I think I'll take this phenomenon of Swahili novels as the perpetuation of unequal power relations. Because the initial Swahili novels lack the most narrative techniques and achieved and received limited attention from Western literary critics who often viewed them as culturally backward and unsophisticated. For example, in the 1960s, what was referred to as modern Swahili literature actually mirror the simpler and outdated literary forms that had been prevalent in Britain a century prior. And literary modernity in this context serves as a mechanism of consecrating power because by doing so, dominant nations in the literary world can with the various forms of capitals and the power can continue to exert influence of literary criticism and shape the definition of literary modernity according to their paradigms and discourse. And while in the end, let me briefly conclude my presentation. I think literary translations actually in the colonial context served as conduits for British ideology, with works being carefully selected or meticulously modified to resonate with the colonial discourse power and ideology. So when translations serve as a vehicle for perpetuating colonial discourse modernity, this sense becomes a paradoxical term because we can see that there are limited literary expressions on sophisticated structures and simple language and diminished literary values. And new thoughts is actually paradoxical. As you can see, those presented in many novels of the first generation. So, and also literary modernity should have been a deep politicized aesthetic concept. However, in this context, it becomes a politicized and ideologically influenced the definition. And also the production of knowledge, and here I think it's translation, in the colonial era was actually linked to the asymmetrical power relations. And these disparities in power were perpetuated, represented by the first generation of Swahili novels. For example, adult children relationship in the colonial paradigm was consolidated, which means sophisticated and unsophisticated. And we can see that power significantly shaped literary modernity leading to distinct outcomes in the Swahili literature context where it's perpetuated, it's supporting the status and maintaining the Western literary modernity in a superior standing. And also literary modernity is a criterion for the perpetuation of unequal power as it is defined by certain nations according to their own interests and values rather than reflecting the diversity and the complexity of the other in their sense. And that's all about my presentation. Thank you very much. Eddie, you sent me a picture. I sent one photo. Yeah, I love it. Shall I? Yes, please do. Yeah, so I'd like to just go on one minute. We have to just see the point. Sorry, myself. If you want to start, go ahead. Okay. I'll start talking while Angelica pulls up my one and only slide. I want to thank both Ida and Angelica for fitting me into the program with short notice. It's a real pleasure being here. For reasons too long to explain, I don't have a proper presentation, but I have an image that I'll come to in due course. What I'm about to talk about is not really about literature or language as an object of inquiry. It's about the question of what can be said or not in a particular context. And I need to mention that this is actually arising from a collaborative research project funded by the EU that has over the last four years taken place in the sites in Southern Tanzania, Western Tanzania, Southern Uganda, Eastern Kenya and the Eastern DSC with collaborators including Sabato Renyanto and Nives Kinunda from the University of Jerusalem, Doreen Kimberbasi, now of Warwick, Kylia Coré of the French Institute in Nairobi and Marjo Leuc Fassil of Free University, Brussels. So to start the subject, 1922 was the 100th anniversary, just put it now, then it's done. I think it's okay if it's there. So, sorry, 2022 was the 100th anniversary of the official abolition of slavery in mainland Tanzania in 1922. I have looked and with my best efforts, I have not been able to find any indication of any kind of official memorialization of what arguably were many standards would be a momentous centenary. There is similar avoidance of the topic also in Kenya and the islands of Zanzibar where the 100th anniversary took place somewhat earlier. Now, when it comes to this overall fairly consistent silence on the history of slavery and its end, there's some fairly obvious reasons. Firstly, there is timing itself. Emancipation in East Africa was a process that occurred over years and decades and these actual dates of ordinances, declarations aren't necessarily terribly meaningful. They don't actually mark the point when emancipation really happened for a great majority of the people affected. Another reason that is fairly evident is the very manifest orientation of East African governments and the Tanzanian government in particular towards the future, what has been described as its pronounced developmentalism, where the past mostly functions as a sort of quarry of materials that can affirm the political dispensation of the present and in some way or another contribute towards an imagined, better future. There is also another factor which is hard to trace in any kind of explicit pronouncement but is quite manifest if you look at certain broader discourses about history. Briefly put, abolitionist narratives such as they are in East Africa have arguably quite divisive implications. That is to say, for Christians, there is a way in which abolition slash emancipation and Christianization and then the development of modern nation states are all part of the same process, leading Africans out of a dark past of enslavement and disunity into a better present of Christianity and nation states. This is certainly in the case of Tanzania, this is sometimes quite explicit. There are some Pentecostal churches that are really quite explicitly nationalist at the same time and there are similar iterations of that also in Kenya. Obviously for Muslim people in the East African nations, this kind of narrative is rather more complicated where the Christian version just doesn't work. Muslims rather tend to categorize enslavement in the past as an Arab custom rather than an Islamic institution and emphasize the importance of manumission, the abolitionist tendencies, if you will, in Islam itself. Nevertheless, there is clearly in the Christian version of this narrative a certain potential for scapegoating of Muslim people in the region, which may well contribute to a certain official wariness around addressing the history of slavery in the region. But I would argue that perhaps more important than any of these factors is a phenomenon that is very much evident at the grassroots, is evident if you talk to people in communities where slavery once existed, which could be termed the unspeakability of the history of slavery today, that there's a lot of strangely consistent often discursive strategies whereby the topic is sort of stepped around. The question, or one of the questions that I'm asking myself is whether this can be seen or should be seen as an indication of a persisting hegemony on part of slave, descendants of slave owners who are in a sense led off the hook, or whether it can or should also be seen as an indication of a kind of moral victory on part of slave descendants. So what happens there is that if you talk to people in locations where there once were plantations worked by slaves, you are very likely to hear sentences such as there were lots of slaves here once and the descendants are still around. Oh, really, well, who are they? Well, we can't tell you. Either we don't know or we can't say. So this is a line that I have heard from so many people in different settings who've asked questions about the slave past. We know who the slave descendants are, but we only talk about that in private, if at all. And there are certain terms that aren't slave descendant or something like that, but somehow evoke that status. So I've heard statements like that in conversations with descendants of plantation owners, some of whom were apologists for slavery and basically said, well, slave descendants still know their place, really. So in that case, there is almost a note of triumph in these claims, as if they're saying, well, we let them get away with pretending that they are our equals, but they are not and they know that we know that they're not. Yeah. At the same time though, this avoidance, this unspeakability appears to be also quite consistently maintained by the descendants of the formerly enslaved. The most sort of vivid example of that that I have derives from a tiny location on the Southern Tanzanian coast called Mingoyo, where in the late pre-colonial period, there was quite a concentrated plantation complex. And the grandson of the last owner of these plantations still lives, well, sorry, in 2000, still lived in the village, he's probably passed on. Now, colonial European sources tell us that the son of the last major plantation owner in this region was made a local official by the British colonial government and in this role was very actively abusive. He's remembered for doing things such as taking people away from funerals in order to do work for him. Demanding their services in the middle of a meal, things like that, he was actively seeking to assert his continuing claim on the efforts of others in a very demonstrative way. Now, what happened after independence was that a plebeian Mingoyan accused this man of having called somebody a slave. And at this point in the early 1960s, again after independence, this owner's descendant, he was dragged to the local party office and made to apologize publicly. And people who talked about this a good 40 years after the fact still clearly remember the drama of it and it clearly came across as this man having met his comeuppance. So in this case, it was plebeian slave descended Mingoyans enforcing the prohibition on talking about slave descent against the son of the former owner. And they clearly thought of this as a kind of moral victory. So what is evident in all of this is that it contrasts very strongly with what could be described as the standard model of addressing past injustices. That is currently in use in many anglophone contexts with a history of slavery. In the US, universities are trying to trace the descendants of enslaved people who they auctioned off 150 and more years ago. There are some efforts also in the UK to, I think in this case, it's more about seeing where the money went on part of the owners. One could also cite the truth and reconciliation model that has been applied in various post-conflict situations across Africa, from South Africa to the Northern Ugandan Civil War. In all of these cases, the basic assumption is that in order to move on from these abusers, these injustices, they have to be named first. They have to be made public. The victims have to be heard. The perpetrators have to, at least to some extent, acknowledge their role in these abuses. And I've spoken to a colleague who is very involved with post-slavery in the West African Sudan, who was very clearly off the view that what is going on in East Africa again reflects a continuing hegemony on part of slave owners. And this silence needs to be broken open. This view on the matter becomes even more complicated if we look at what's on this slide. So this is, on the Tanzanian mainland, the only artistic 3D representation of the history of slavery that I'm aware of. It's, as you can see, represent, well, it's a slave caravan carved in wood. The whole iconography corresponds quite closely to 19th century etchings, typically curated by missionaries about slave caravans in the East African interior. Now, Salvador Inyanto, the colleague who found this, says that this was actually commissioned and paid for by a hotel owner, by a hotel who had built a tourist hotel, some 80 kilometers off the coast on what used to be the central caravan route in mainland Tanzania. And he was hoping to thereby create essentially a tourist attraction. Similar, if not quite as synthetic, if you will, attempt at memorialization happening on the southern Kenyan coast with the so-called Shimoni slave caves. There are sites from missionary settlements in Kenya that memorialized the slave past, recently a further presentation about similar efforts along the Mozambican coast, also in the context of an effort to expand tourism. This is, of course, nothing new. There's a number of sites in West Africa that are associated with some of the most hideous aspects of the West African slave trade, thank you, and that have long been tourist destinations. Nevertheless, it sort of makes my brain explode a bit. I find it very peculiar that a confrontation with the history of slavery is treated as a day out, as somehow part of the package, a holiday package that typically includes a lot of sandy beach and maybe some dances and carvings and things like that and then slavery. So, we're then as somebody who is nevertheless trying to uncover this past and the way people in the East African region got from pursuing their emancipation to where they are today. It seems to me that it is crucial that no one model of dealing with the past be imposed on the communities living with these pasts. So, perhaps the main question to ask here is how to make sure that the people who live with the heritage of slavery, more or less on a daily basis, remain the ones who get to define the terms of the debate, that they do not have one or another model of examining this past, just imposed on them, be it via their governments, via NGOs or via economic incentives associated with tourism. Insisting on airing the dirty linen, so to speak, arguably would be a form of cultural imperialism in these sites. So, it seems to me, I'd be happy to hear other views. But at the same time, researchers dealing with these events do have to ask themselves how they can open spaces for discussion, whether or how it is possible to make hitherto unsayable things. Sayable, perhaps how to broaden ownership, so to speak, of such memory sites and draw hitherto marginal groups into the conversation. For a while, I was actually quite worried about whether raising these issues at all was poking a wasp's nest, that it maybe wasn't my job to poke. I took a little bit of reassurance recently from a discussion with a woman who works for the National Museums of Kenya and who herself of Omani descent. So constantly lives with this notion that she is a descendant of the privilege of the perpetrators. And she said that she thinks that the solution is to talk more, not less, to really have it out together. Okay, and with that, I'll end. Oh, at the same time, I'm just gonna talk a little bit. Okay. No, no, no. The list, I think I'm gonna share it with you. Thank you, Coach. You took only? Yeah. Are you gonna show? Yeah. Let me post this. No, you're working to show. Adam, yes, I think we're gonna have to just say, I'm sure, I'm excited. No, but they don't see that. Yeah. Abariza says in Yemani, Safi Madaya, Kuskia, Enel Kubola, Kimombo, Sasa, Mimi, Nita Kwenda, Kiswahili, Moya Kwamoya. Waio Sasaivi, Waleambo, Milukom, Nipenda, Kuskia, Kiswahili, Mimi, Nita Wasi-Lisha, Kiswahili, Koukama, Narafiki, Akoa, Pokaribu, Anayua, Kimombo, Ama, Kiswahili, Nwawe Ujui Kiswahili, Anazu Aakku, AkakuPatafsiri, Nsito, T whomya m'dam tiver sana, Nipater Kwenda polepole Gaine Koyakusengatia Moda, Nuntuu-Huormon, Sito Yihtambulisha, Oupia, oil tomorrow Monday Satam, and I goes mountainous, kotoGHok kardeşim Kutokia, W이에mwa, Nema Hussiano, ya utamaduni wa hip-hop, yin siyambavio inna vio shirikiana ama inna vio tegemea zairi fasihi tanzania hususan kunye usairi wa hip-hop. Fasihi, luga ya fasihi ni koutangulizi ni luga ama yoh wa andishi ama watunzi utumia ili ku fitia wazo ama utumia kunji anzuri a kupendi zesha, au ku wutia hisiya zam sumagi kuskiliza shairi lake ama wimbo ama kitabu chenye fasihi inzuri a akunfano. Mimin li wutiwa na fasihi ku akusoma vitabu vingi via Hayat Shaban Robert, lakin inna mzewangu faruk topan, na vitabu via ke vio te na visoma. Na vitabu vingi sana weki fasihi, mimini mkireketo wa fasihi, inna atani mbo zangu zimejia fasihi, lakin impaka uskiliza. Si ku YouTube un eza kusi ta futa, ya andika maali nash, YouTube tani pata. Pia utumia taswira kamanji ama yoh wa po, ya ku fitia kila ki nachu zangu umzu wa ku hadara, ya ni hadwira ita itadi ku utumia akili, ili ku eza kubaini, mimini ki nachu zangu umzu wa aw kusuniwa. Pia fasihi ni to fawuti na mafumbu. Lazi matu fahamu, mafumbu ni kituki ingine. Kusabu kumikua pia nashida yawatu ku onakama fasihi, na mafumbu ni kituki mo, ni kituki mo ya apana. Fasihi ni inau kuba na kitaloma. Kwanini lurahi ya fasihi, kwanini hepa, pama lurahi ya fasihi, inna imchangua kini hopi, kwanini mi hasa.  Zipo kazi za fasihi, zinazu sikilizwa, ama ku tazama, na kusoma kusababu fasihi ni sana, inaiweze aw ku onesha, maishi akila monadama katikanyan jazote. Fasihi ni yume sana katikakui maisha umfumo, wa utambuzi wa fikra, ama waki fikra, na kim tazama, ku husu falsafa, ya maisha, na uli mwengu. Fasihi piya ni taluma na sanai nai ofundisha, namna, ya ku i kua mua yamii ku toka katika, pali moya ku enda katika, pali, ngingine, bora zaidi, katika nyan jazote, zaki maisha. He wio basi, dima kuza fasihi ni ku toa elimu, murudani, na he wio konye mashairi aw hip-hop, ama nyimboza hip-hop, kazi hizo, ku kazi zaki ku piya ni hizo. Ku am fano, modya ya sehemu ku bambayo fasihi, ama utama dunu hip-hop, una tegemea sana mausiyano yakin na fasihi, ni sehemu yaku tenge neza tafakuri. Mi minapenda ku tumia nino yadidi, mereyake ama tafakuri yadidi. Niki kua ke ingereza, onase ma deep thinking, si diwin, nipo sa hi. Tafakuri yadidi. Ile tafakuri a kina, ku fikiri a ku halia.   Na reyea ama, vitru ama, nyimbo ama zoni mezi tumia, nyimbo zangu menginewe, ama zoni mezi andika, na hu wimbo mo ya wapo, kamon fano ama ku na amstarit kilogo, uta aw wapo. Kon yi wimbo na itwa tanzia, e hi ni albami angu, umpiene itwam hadiri, shetia keya. Hadiri, the rektura. Kon yi wimbo na tanzia, e kuna amistari ina sema, mukono wa shiriya, umempo kea kaisali, wakam piti a haki, kuenda ku yi zinjali, wakita ha maki, wa narudi mimbani, wa melewa chaka. Wakati wimbo hu na toka, watwa na uskiliza, kila mo yari kuna taka kuyua e ni ohili, apa na shu me maanishanini.   Laki ni sana sana, neda i li kuwani, ki manisha, kuwani eneola, rushwa.   Kumfano, kuna wimbo, wamsani, anaito bukonya, ni underground hip-hop artist, kutrokiya Tanzania, aliandika wimbo na ito, deriva, driver, ah, masheiriake, li kuaki sema, deriva hua hapangiwi, sika tai, ila mwendo noutu peleka, ni mkali, deriva tuazi kuwacha kulalama, kuamaana tunafaham tu, kuamaana tunaham, kufika toki wahai, deriva ni, anawezakua, deriva kamaka, deriva, mpokonyi basi, lakini, deriva hui uniki ongoze, anawezakua wazirimku, raisi, wanchi, siyendione ongoza, deriva, kuayu, kukutumiya luga kamaii, kuna fadali, kuna kidogo, unawezakua, tiongoze, anawezakua, tiongoze, anawezakua, anawezakua, anawezakua, darassema, hui yuka manisha deriva, deriva ka waida tu, koi oke siya kuna, koi ni sa mui ya fasihi, erriedo inadutupam, changoakimku, waka tka, masahiria, hepao, kuwamaana tunapata bulhuru a kuandika, kwa sababutu, nadwa fasihi, ipokuagillia, kutulinda, Bado, alikwana eendelea, anasema, nadwa tumechelewa, if yuh nabidi tu ai, lakini hi-spiri, We're going to We're going to I am matumizia matumizia everybody. Thank you so much for staying and for being around. So the next presentation is actually wrong on your, on what you have. So they will tell you what they're going to talk about. And if you want to get up and stretch in the meantime, that's a good idea. Okay, just don't leave. Just stretch. No, no, no. Where are you going? Okay. So yeah, we can. All right. Welcome, Lara, Stephanie, Krause, Alda Edi and Irene Brunotto from Institute of African Studies, University of Laipzig. Welcome. Thank you. Should we give them a second to come back? Give them in now. I'll never do that again.  Thank you very much. Yes, thank you. Yeah, so for avid abstract readers, they will have no, will notice now that we will disappoint because after seeing the program and after talking to Ida two days ago, we actually decided that another thing that we have been thinking about in our work a lot will maybe fit much better here. And we would actually really love to hear your feedback on it. So don't expect the abstract, expect something else. Right. And we are actually very happy we did this because throughout the whole day, there were a lot of presentations that were resonate a lot with what we are going to focus on. And the one thing was Jonathan's presentation in the morning on the postcards of Zanzibar, where we already saw the British Army bombing of the House of Wonders in Zanzibar, which we will pick up basically. And then Elsbeth and Angelica were talking about what might constitute a bit of a Swahili lens in terms of more of a rhizomatic thinking. And a question that runs through our talk is really what constitutes this Swahili lens maybe or like Swahili onto epistemologies. And how can we do justice to them in the way that we think about, but also with language? Right. And then another thing, of course, that Ida was talking about the process of racialization. And we will very much pick up on the role of matter, material, and also absenced material in racialization. And I think eventually, sorry. And silence. And I think eventually we will also pick up on the unspeakabilities that you just brought up. So yeah, let's see. You have to click on the screen once and then the other one and the other one. How do I get just like that? Try it? Yes. Okay, so a little bit of warning in our presentation. There will be racializing matter, words, material, and pictures. Zanzibar, Sikwe Akrismase Mwakalfumbili Nashirini. Ma'ajabu, the many modernities, electricity, the lift, the marble, and the materials imported and local, that the third al-Busaydi Sultan Sayyid Bargash brought into that house onto Zanzibar, the city, and his own reign. Zanzibar, Sikwe Akrismase Mwakalfumbili Nashirini. In the language literary scholars are used to, Khasani uses first a simili, establishing a clear relationship of likeness between the houses, the cities, and the people that just after is enhanced through a metaphor. In this way, we would say the metaphor of soul and the metaphor of breathing, anthropomorphize, and personify the houses, likening them to people. The houses are not personified, Khasani angali taka to personify them, angali indika wavuta badalaya yavuta, ila hakufanya hivu. We'd like to get into a conversation with you today about whether a different reading of Khasani's words, for example, is possible. One that takes seriously, or first of all actually brings to the fore, the Swahili onto epistemology that differs from western individualistic ontologies from which a literary vocabulary like metaphor is derived. And this speaks also to a conversation that I had with Khasani and their Abdelatif Abdullah and with the Faruk Topan, when the Faruk Topan was talking about when he was called back to Dar es Salaam to open in 1968 to open up the institute, the taluma that the Swahili is here. And he was saying here in that we were discussing the literature in Swahili, and we struggled with the terminologies in those early days, terminologies which would be meaningful to the context. So what we are arguing here is that through translation of literary and not only analytic vocabulary such as metaphor in Swahili, a certain way of reading and interpreting language was mapped onto the Swahili context, importing western wolding and suffocating possible readings Kutokakwenyeh and Swahili. We here propose a matter-phorical reading of Khasani's words and of different stories emerging from and through the collapse of the Yumba la Maadiabu. Such a reading refuses metaphorization and engages with the anthropistemological possibility of breathing houses with souls. So as to what metaphorics would be, as you've noticed the word matter replacing the matter. So whereas the concept metaphor is the trope of meaning transfer and substitution as we're all familiar with by means of analogy, matter for denotes the articulation of meaning in relation to matter. Matter is not understood as a fixed entity, but as constantly shifting which is actually what phoric means. And thereby establishing entanglements and relationalities. So if you hear us throughout our talk saying things that you would habitually hear as a metaphor, we would invite you to search for their relation to the actual materialities that we are speaking. This changes then not only how we conceive of the relation between meaning and matter, between words and matter, and consequently of knowledge production, but it also presents a different way of doing theory. So Gandalfa argues for a metaphorical use of language that will allow us to break loose from its rigid representative and metaphorical use. Thinking non-metaphorically expressing despite language and reading science non-imperialistically demands the abolition of all metaphor and she's quoting a delusia and the acceptance that all that consists is real. And what we are wondering and trying to enact throughout this talk is what this would look like a non-metaphorical language. So a metaphorical language allows us to express material discursive relationalities without fixing individual, several comparable entities, which is the only way that you can make a metaphor work, right? Comparison and metaphor are only possible if you know what a house is and if you know what a person is, so then you can liken the house to the person.  And this is what we want to refuse. So we want to put up for discussion that from within us, Swahili, Madiango, Mi, Dio, Atena, Maneno are in fact ontologically co-constitutive becomeings. And in our analysis outward from the collapse of Diumala Amal Diabu, we try to enact metaphorical language. The wounded body of the house stands on the Foradani Gardens, Nikiwalime Potezewa Haibaiake partially revealing its intimate interior interrupted, Bada Yamiyakamingi here. The coral stone has succumbed under the pressure of dense and violent times, of breathtaking salt pent up in the cracks, of mistreatment by those who were responsible for its well-being for Rohoiake. Nani mwanyayukumu? Diumala Amal Diabu lemeporomoka, a sudden interruption, an intra-ruption, leaving an agonizing emptiness, a distressing urban void, a place in a state of suspension where a different form of control and structure are interrupted, making it difficult to fix and identify the void's identity. Matter is never a subtle matter, Barat writes. Not even after it has fallen, we add. It's always already radically open, Barat continues. In a conference held two months after the collapse, the Sanzibari historian Abdul-Sharif matters forth the constitutive becoming of the voided House of Wanda and the wound of race in Zanzibar. Alivo Sema, this was not a collapse merely of one building. It was symptomatic of the decay that had set in the all of Zanzibar town since the revolution. It occurred almost immediately after yet another political catastrophe. A contentious election at the end of October with the usual casualties dividing the country once again and driving home the point divided with all. Here, Sharif speaks the decay of the building and of all of Zanzibar town into connection with the racializing political violence regularly erupting on the island since the revolution in 1964 that had overthrown the Sultanate. He hands with divided with all, which we could read as a metaphor in which these time people are likened to the House and their divisions to the collapse. However, we choose to attend to it metaphorically. The coral stone constituting much of the old town has from the late 18th century onward come to be racialized, mattering forth the racially divided C.C. Sharif speaks off. In Swahili discourses in Zanzibar race in terms of skin color is not spoken. Blackness is worded as Africa, and the light skin-ness and whiteness of the rest is worded as Warabu, Uhindi, and the like. A linguistic void attempts to deny that bodies and skin can become matters of life and death in Zanzibar. But the coral stone divides the city, mattering forth silently racialized bodies. The stone metered forth the Zanzibar rulers, Warabu, and Germany, Warengereza, and traders, Warabu and Uhindi, as its righteous owners. The rest, Warafrikazia, four were made to belong to Ngambo, the metaphorical other side of the old town. It's no coincidence that the old town of Zanzibar came to be named and known as Stone Town, the colonial proper and elitist space. And yet, the House of Wonders commissioned by the Sultan and mattering forth ruling light skin-ness its coral stone touched by black hands, hands of enslaved bodies. Despite the violence mobilized again the light skin Warabu in power in 1964, revolution by the Wasalendo, who mattered for Africa by appropriating a socializing colonial racial categories. And despite the post-revolution violences that Sharif words, the House of Wonders metering Warabu with stood. Leo Kupuromoka-Kwake, the sudden erupting void with its desiring orientation toward being becoming innumerable imaginings of what might yet be have been. While the void becomes an opportunity to unmeter Arabness in its materiality, to let the city fall, Khasami tells us, and to eventually give it back to its self-proclaimed rightful owners, Black Zanzibaris. And divided to a fall. Matter has never settled matter, Barad-Rides, especially not after it has crumbled, we would add. It's always already radically open. The Jumbala Marjabu had already become Jumbala Ayibu in the words of many Zanzibaris who had seen the first cracks, who had felt the stone trying to catch its breath. They were disappointed by the neglect of the House by the government. Its collapse is the material evidence of that neglect. Therefore, the government is committed to clear the rubble away. Yet what is it that must be cleared away? The wounded House crumbled into the multiplicity of materials of which it was made. Fall into the ground in a pile of rubble that remembers, puts back together what it was. All its racializing stone, its clay, lime and wood crumbled. Matters dangerously hard to categorize. Matters so unsettled, so unsettling that the government hurries up to sweep them away. It needs to govern unracialized single identity Zanzibaris. But Zanzibariness as rubble is not classifiable in order to be governable. It's a multiple infinite indeterminate identity that becomes problematic to the political power that needs to be avoided. Sweeping out the rubble is an attempt to push away, mind you, not to stitch or even to heal the wound of race. To turn it into nothingness, to unracialize as part of an avoidance of responsibility. And divided before. But voids don't do nothingness, they undo no thingness. They don't unracialize, they unracialize. The unrubbled void is no doubt doing its own experiments with non-being. Indeterminacy is not the state of a thing, but an unending dynamism that can become differently in different relations with different bodies and different words. Sasa, in the palace renovation, following the white British army bombing meant to restore colonial power over the sultanate, the British needed poles to support the house clock tower. When you're willing to go and bow zile zile kudengaloemnara, turned in such a way as to make their carvings invisible, literally disappeared from the sight of the colonialist, and forcibly from the memories of Zanzibaris. Today, the collapse offers the chance to recover that history, to remember putting membra limbs back together, those planks. In a later email to us, Sharif writes, when the collapse occurred on Christmas day 2020, I rushed to the house of wonders and later urged one of the former colleagues to try to rescue any fragments of the boards. Voids are unending dynamisms of material discursive entanglements that move bodies, bringing Sharif to the side of the collapse for an attempt to intervene, to co-constitute what would for him and also for us be an ethical responsible metering forth of the voided clans. With Sharif and ourselves, the void then does not become evidence for shameful governmental neglect. Rather, through its desiring orientation towards being becoming, it expresses the multiple, infinite, indeterminate identity of a rainbow-colour people, opening up to the possibility for building, metaphorically, new and old, unracializing material discursive relations, vibrant with innumerable imaginings of what might yet be, have been, with possibilities for new and more just ways of intra-acting through a comprehensive Zanzibar response ability. Undivided, we don't fall. Unfortunately, Sharif told us, his former colleague had little say and the debris was being dumped in the creek in front of Wawani Hotel. I'm sorry to say that none of it was recovered because the government was more concerned about the shame of the collapse than with salvation of what could be done. But matter is never a subtle matter, but it writes, even after it was absenced, we add. It's always already radically open. About the planks we only learned through Sharif's words in the interview after the collapse. It was the void Sharif and his words becoming with each other that brought forth these planks into the public domain, so we could pick them up. After we referenced his words from the interview to him and asked him if he had anything for us to work with, he shared pictures he had taken of the violated planks hidden in the clock tower when the Gymbalama Diabo still stood. However, looking closely at the pictures, trying to piece together the words and their meaning, with my husband who speaks Arabic, thankfully, what struck us the most were not the word it planks as signs or their meaning, but more wounds. While we had already heard Sharif speak of the planks having been turned so as to hide their carvings from view, we hadn't sensed the cuts, the violation of these Arab word bodies cut into pieces by the British. So you can see on that picture that these long planks were actually cut at several points to literally build the fundament of the clock tower. Voids created within wooden words, making them hard to remember. On Christmas Day 2020, the clock tower built from mutilated, violated words eventually broke down, scattering its limbs, broken material discursive, violated light-skinned Arab ancestors, co-constituents of, in Sharif's words, a rainbow-colored people, re-membered with and through the void. And divided the planks four. So what we asked ourselves is how we can re-member the words of the House of Wonders. And we actually managed to piece together two of these cut pieces from the pictures that Sharif sent us. And it is the Surah 3 Ayat 26 of the Quran. And we'll just play that little excerpt, if hopefully it works. And end with that. Okay, so we're calling our last presenter, our own source student. Please join us. I'll just put up your presentation. Did you send me a final one just now by email? All right, so let me just open it. I need to open my email again. Okay, so that's for sure. Yes? Why are we waiting for this to open? Can you come and give us a quick announcement? For anyone who's interested, we'll be going to the College Arms, which is like a two-minute walk away on Stor Street. We're obviously going to go together to a different college. It's the College Arms, which is just a lab, our free art gallery out of this building, lab, and then it's the third ride, so it's really really hard to see here, College Arms stores, people become so big, that's good. Yeah, and right now, we have a recipe in the next episode. I'm going to make a doughnut. I hope to save it, then I'm going to make it. I'm going to make a doughnut. I'm really going to make a doughnut. Yes? A doughnut. Yes, I'm going to make a doughnut. And where are you from? I grew up in Bologna, but I'm from Bologna, my father from Salerno. You're from Bologna? Yes, you're from Bologna. I'm from Bologna. You're from Bologna? Yes. Oh good, you're from Bologna. Yes, I'm from Bologna. I know that it's because my mother grew up here two, three minutes before I left the년 in October, I hope, that's a good thing. My mother moved here. My mother was from Bologna but I'm left here since two months ago. monthly meet up here at SARS for London Swahili speakers. Oh, thank you. So yeah, we meet monthly at SARS to speak Swahili, everyone from outside students. Yeah, there's Chai and things. So yeah, if you're interested in that, then yeah, maybe ask me and I can give you the WhatsApp link. And Collie Jones for those of you that didn't hear the first time. No, I saw your email. I don't want to. I don't want to open it because it might be. Yeah, you can close that. This one. Yeah, I think so. Oh, no, the WhatsApps. It's okay, no problems. Excuse me. Let's start again. It's okay. Almost the children. You can tell me when it's five minutes. Yeah. And 10 minutes. I don't know whether five minutes. Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. Okay. Are you done? We can start. Yes. Okay, so we are now starting the presentation of Thomas Mayofranco. Thank you. You got 15 minutes. Okay, okay. Yeah, no worries, no worries. So hi, everyone. I'm Tom. I graduated from SARS in Development Studies last year and I'm here now doing my Masters in African Studies. And today I'm going to do something a little bit different from the rest of the presentation today. And I'm just going to present my independent study project. So this presentation is based on my undergraduate dissertation and is about the impact of COVID-19 pandemic on HIV care services in Tanzania and how people living with HIV in Tanzania like the struggle during the COVID pandemic. So when the COVID-19 outbreak like Africa, of course, it was a very delicate situation because there was a collision between the COVID-19 pandemic and ongoing medical challenges and epidemics, such as like tuberculosis, malaria. And of course, like HIV-AIDS, which is like what we're going to talk about today. So my study is focused on the perspective like of community health care NGOs that work both in Tanzania, mainland and Zanzibar. And yeah, as my primary research, I interviewed like members, different members of like these three NGOs. And here I actually like have to thank like the Swahili meetup crew because I was messaging like on the group chat and they really helped me to identify like a community health care organization that worked on the territory and like during the pandemic as well. And so the idea here is that like I wanted to bring like different experiences to my study. So like for instance, the first one is the Zanzibar association with people living with HIV-AIDS and talking with them like really helped me to like understand like the different experience between Zanzibar and Tanzania mainland. And the second one is the natural woman living with HIV-AIDS in Tanzania. And like with them like I was able to explore from the perspective of like a vulnerable group like women living with HIV. So in terms of secondary research, I started by like understanding like how COVID-19 impacted Tanzania and like other like East African states in general. And then I narrowed down to the relationship between COVID initially in Tanzania. And like looking at other like East African state or like at other African state in general really helped me to like highlight recording challenges that I could have expected during my study. So my methodology has some limitation because like I wasn't, I didn't include any like official like governmental sources because like first of all getting access to the sources is very like time consuming and like requires a lot of permissions. And secondly, the government like the Tanzanian government didn't release any official COVID like data or report after May 2020. And so like I decided to focus on the experience of community of HIV care NGOs. And I think like since we have like a lack of official data the seeing the perspective still made the study relevant. So my study began with two predicted outcome. The first is that like a reduction in public investment in HIV care like in the Tanzanian territory and will have like increased like the economic pressure on local HIV care NGOs that needed to like support people living with HIV throughout the global pandemic. And the second was that there were challenges like initiating like a new patient to anti-retroviral therapy due to disruption to testing facilities. And later on I'll expand on both of them. So as we probably already know when COVID-19 arrived in Tanzania President Mago Fuli, former President Mago Fuli actually and really downplay like the pandemic. And so like the left like avoid the lockdown measure they left the business open. And so like the situation was really concerning. And so this like neglect of like neglecting of the severity of the global pandemic that Tanzania was like facing like other countries. Poser tried to like the lives of like 1.7 million of Tanzanians living with HIV. And so like this increased the pressure on like HIV care NGOs to like support people living with HIV throughout the pandemic. So the first thing that came out with my research is actually like there was like a very different experience in terms of like COVID containment policies in Zanzibar and in Tanzania mainland. And in fact, President Hussain Ali Mouni, the president of Zanzibar had like a very different reaction compared to Mago Fuli. And in fact, like despite Zanzibar like realize Zanzibar economy relies a lot on tourism. President Mouni was aware of the state of like health care services and like the economic capabilities of the country. And so like it really didn't want to like the COVID-19 pandemic to have like a destroying impact or like the Zanzibar economy. And so like he introduced like stricter lockdown measures than like Tanzania mainland including like travel restriction border closes and stuff like that. The second thing that like came out of my research is that like when the reduction in like governmental and intergovernmental fundings to like HIV care programs required of course like a big push from the private sector that like supports like this NGOs. And like every like participant in my study they actually said that like they didn't have like very negative economic consequences due to COVID. Because like the decrease in public funding was actually support but like an increase in like a private source of funding that like helped to like to adapt the services like and becoming that making them like a COVID-19 compliant and like allow them to like keep doing like their services and support people with living with HIV throughout the pandemic. And this was very interesting because I was expecting to like I was expecting that this like reduction in investments in public investment will have a negative impact but it actually didn't. Of course like the COVID-19 pandemic brought like new challenges and like HIV care like NGOs needed to re-adapt the way like they deliver like treatment. And like Tanzania was actually like a very good example where like compared to other East African countries where like local NGOs like really managed to adapt well to the pandemic in terms of like delivering treatments. And in fact like Tanzania ensured like successful access to HIV treatments to most of like people living with HIV both in rural and urban areas. And like this process was helped to buy like a shift in policies. In fact like the government allowed like six months antiretroviral mental medicine dispensing which means that like people living with HIV could like collect drugs for like six months and basically like not having to worry about and not having to go like regularly outside their house and stuff and being therefore like more exposed to COVID. And like the delivery of like antiretroviral mental therapy is like it was essential to keep it like going because like people living with HIV need to take antiretroviral therapy and which is like a combination of like three drugs I believe that if are taken every day like they make like HIV in the blood almost unattractable and people can live like a normal life as long as they keep taking the drug regularly. And also like another thing that like really helped like ensuring the access to like antiretroviral therapy is that like in the last few years antiretroviral therapy has been like given for free to people living with HIV. And this means that like even like those people that were affected negatively economic by the COVID-19 pandemic were still like able to access the treatments. One of the negative impact of the COVID pandemic it was that like he caused like a lot of issues in diagnosing new cases. In fact like a lot of like HIV testing centers were like closed during COVID or like the medical stuff that was working there was like displayed to like COVID-19 facilities and therefore like people living with HIV or that weren't aware of their status had to travel more to get tested and to and it means that they were more exposed to COVID. And also like another factor that the negative impact on new diagnosis is the fact that some HIV tests are like antigen like the COVID tests. And so like an increase in demand of like a COVID test that were produced then from like western pharmaceutical companies meant that like there was like a lower supply of HIV tests because they're very similar. And also like the COVID-19 pandemic brought it like some other challenges that like indirectly impacted like maybe didn't directly impact the HIV care services but still had an indirect impact on like the life of millions of people living with HIV. One of the things that the participant in my research highlight is that like the closure of like support groups was particularly bad. In fact like a lot of people living with HIV are like very relying on like the support groups where they can meet each other and like talk like support each other. And this is particularly important for women living with HIV because like Tanzania is still a country where like there's a lot of social segmentation especially like concerning women. And so like the the stop of like support groups are the negative impact on the mental health of like many people living with HIV. And the second thing I mentioned here is like food security because like my participant reported that like food security in mainland Tanzania remains stable but in Zanzibar actually like there were like a lot of increases in prices of like imported food. And so it means that like people like it made it harder for people to access nutritious food and this like had a negative impact on the other ends too like antiretroviral therapy because like having a nutritious diet means that like when you start taking the drugs like the drugs are going to start like having effect more quickly. So finally the outcome of my studies revealed that like my hypotheses were partially confirmed. So like as I was saying before like the financial challenges for like HIV care as NGOs were kind of supported by were kind of like compensated by like an increase in private sector fundings. But also like the hypothesis about like difficulties initiating like a new patient to antiretroviral therapy was confirmed as like disruption in testing facilities like making it harder to get like many people on the drugs. Asante Sana. Thank you so much for these amazing presentations. I learned so much and I think we had something like three threads going through this panel which was our biggest panel. So can I take some questions from the audience? Yes. Thanks for their cancellations and official apologies.  Definitely yes yeah. Thanks. Well interestingly in Tanzania too there has just been a debate about an apology that has happened recently but that was when the German president went to apologize for more atrocities committed during the mighty, mighty uprising in 1905-2007 and the responses from the human colleagues have been mixed with especially evidence, especially historians saying not very far enough. It's evident that that's what happened. There was a time to apologize without pain. I don't know whether that was perhaps the whole point of the exercise from the German perspective. So implication being that the debates on restorative measures of a financial form are currently focused elsewhere. Every time they innovate on reparations for slavery it does resonate to some extent in East Africa but none of the governments we take it up with anything like the seriousness that exists currently especially in the Caribbean and it's in a sense the capability is more disseminated. You have to really address European nations that facilitate the trade such as the French, the Germans, you have to address the governments in the Arabian Peninsula as far as Iran really. I think it's actually currently not a priority not for anyone not even for the sort of people who are having conversations about how to live with this heritage in village in very local settings because if only because I don't think anybody realistically expects money to become available. Yeah thank you, thank you. Any other question or comment or anything? Yes Babatun and then the person behind you. What's the name of the church? The name of the church is son and it was behind you yes and then I'll come back here. I'd like to know what your thoughts are on the idea of the 70s and the 20s and the 20s and the 20s and the 20s. I have read through the translation of Shakespeare but I cannot say if I studied it. However I think the translation he adopted was more than simplification but it's actually a strategy influenced also by ideology, by the socialist ideology. We can find that, especially the Venus versions, I don't really call it, it's named well. In this way we can say that Nierede describes the greedy man or the average as not good enough, not good enough in socialist ideology and actually in the original play I believe it was not so fierce against this kind of average as he is or something like that. So in his translation he tried to change this play in the socialist context to make it better aligned with the socialism that he wanted to carry out and I think this is what I could answer for now and I can explain that. In terms of Julius Caesar and sort of Julius Nierede, Julius Caesar and Maripari, may I just add one more thing to this and that is we take this in the context of both translations that is Julius Caesar and Maripari and both have been spoken about in terms of Nierede who was trying in a sense to breach, going from capitalism to Yama, so that's just one. There is an article by somebody called David G and he talks about Shakespeare, I forget the reference, but it is D-E-D-J-I, it's first in the space of David G. He talks about this first you might just want to look him up. Since I have the, the may I speak also about not only this question but two other things. Yes please, please do. In terms of Utopia, again there is an article by Seidat M. Hamlet and he's speaking specifically on Prusadikika and seems to sort of agree with the idea that Prusadikika is moving towards this Utopian genre as such and my take on that is that that it's partly, partly we need to credit Shaman Robert also in the creativity of the way that he is portraying the whole idea of good, good being here, not only to Utav al-Amor, I think in the sentence on that, I would, I would perhaps represent it differently that you know he, the reason why Shaman Robert could not come in openly to criticize the good or the bad regime was precisely what I said that he was a civil servant and that one here, he had clearly gone out of the way and that was that, that he would be a big support, that kind of association and so on. the the the the the the the the In various ways, the heads has been sort of passed around therefore, President Winner, President Goyen, etc. But we want to apologize you. So that is that we go to presentation, your presentation, thank you for that because I think this is a subject which needs to be spoken about, as you said. But I would like to transfer it to another subject. And that is, a few years ago I was approached by a journalist, I think some of you know her, Yasmin Alibi-Bram, and she said, look I'm going to Zanzibar, I'm going to make, to make a documentary, and on a very important subject and I, you talk about it. So it was the subject, again, because it was slavery. And I said, that's very important to remember, but because you're going to Zanzibar, take that opportunity to talk about something else because since 1964, there has not been anything through the reconciliation commission in Zanzibar. And yet, people have lived with all these years knowing fully well who has tortured whom and who was, so there is that unspoken aspect in Zanzibar itself, I don't know if I'm right, you have to stay here, but that aspect needs to be addressed as well, because that really was very, many Zanzibarist thing, very low about what to do with them, but again, of course, it is time to absorb, so I just really make the point. Yeah, thank you very much. There was a hand somewhere, yes, particularly. I would like to ask a question to you, a little bit of an observation to you, being aware of the idea of literary modernity on the sort of middle center, which is translation and not necessarily the initial literary expression itself in terms of like testing literary modernity sitting on translation, are there two, to sort of ask that the difficulty of talking about modernity itself and translation itself as a tool of modernity, of modernizing, but also concept of time and the form and the style and the thematics of the expression, the initial expression of the text. And from the point of view, from a very Africa-centered point of view, that necessarily translating across from a European text back into the African text. And I'm imagining the texts that sort of knew that literary modernity was an expression in the Swahili language and embodying thematically, stylistically, in terms of form, that we should refer to as this literary modernism, in terms of basement. The second question that is tied up to the beginning of your presentation is this, I'm beginning to learn translation theory, this year for my research as I'm going to read it, I used to be extremely angry in the classical texts in the beginning that would be translated wrong. I used to be a literary theory of why the translators say so many liberties. But this year I'm becoming softer because I'm a very loyal person to the prose, the fiction, as it's produced there, that protects the literature, the drama, the writer goes through that definition. The question I am struggling with now, I don't know if you're going to answer my question, I'm asking, but it's related to the first part of your presentation. Is this question of what is the translator translating? Are they translating for the receiving culture, or are they, which means are they translating themselves if they are this close to the receiving culture, are they translating themselves through it, or are they translating for the reception or something that has slightly nothing to do with it? I think I had your idea of the corruption and the fact that I should know the text sometimes. What happens when the translator is really just concerned with the receiving culture and themselves if they're close to the translator? The text itself, and I find my beef with translator I find my beef with translator getting, I'm getting soft about it, I'm getting even more angry when I realize they actually are theoretical, and Kenny said allow them to read this kind of a thing. I don't know if I start off this question properly. Yes. Yeah, so while actually regarding the second question, I would like to know that you want to know the translator's attitudes or something like that towards the receiving culture, or? No. Your concern, and I respect the concern, was that the colonial translators were translating with this understanding and the personalization of the receiving culture. An extreme end for the translator is with the culture and the accessibility and respect to what it is and still translates something that is not the text, but that is, no matter how respectful it is towards the culture, that is themselves in the culture. Can I just say? Let's say they're not colonial. Yeah, I'll tell you what, maybe if I can just quickly interject. I think what she means is, I think we normally find that translators, maybe sort of, let's start with authors who are writing, for example, in English, would be writing for a global audience and so they're free to write maybe for whoever. But I think when you're translating, for instance, into Swahili, you're very aware of the audience, sort of like, who's going to read this? Can they accept this or not? And I think in the colonial times, it was more so the case because the script had changed, right? I mean, from the Arabic to the Latin, so they needed some readers, so it was quick translations, isn't it? But then there was also patronizing that happened, like, for example, why make Alice into a little African girl? So that's what she's asking, are they allowed to do that or not? And I think we have to be aware of time. So go on. Well, actually, in my opinion, or from my perspective, on equal power relations, I mentioned before, I think they actually, from a perspective of normal translators, they were not allowed to do that. However, in colonial context, the power, it may be, in my opinion, is the central point in the whole translation process. And maybe I think the knowledge and the discourse was constructed by power, from my perspective. So I think they were originally not allowed to, however, they could decide everything because they were dominating everything. And in the whole process, they were dominant. There were no others respecting them, right? For example, the publishers, we could say that King Solomon's lines was reprinted, was reprinted, maybe more than the Gulliver's Tribals. But actually, there's yet no one to question why this phenomenon exists. Why King Solomon's lines are reprinted for maybe several times instead of Gulliver's Tribals. So in my opinion, actually, I think maybe King Solomon's lines represents the colonial ideology and discourse, and it fits well, it fits perfectly with the colonial discourse, but it portrays what may as the gods and the series.  So I think it's the reason why it was reprinted several times. And maybe in nowadays translation, we take a look at the translation process. For now, we can say that publishers have their say, but during the colonial time, they didn't have their say. It should be multifaceted negotiations engaged by different people, by different stakeholders. However, it was only engaged by the British translators themselves. For example, the inter-territorial language committee, it was in the central, and actually it can make any decision instead of asking advice or receiving some restrictions from other parties. All right. Thank you very much. I have to thank the panel. Thank you. So this is the panel that has come from Germany, Tanzania, China, Belgium, and Tanzania, and all around England. So honestly, thank you so much. So before I invite Professor Wanguiwagoro to give us sort of like the closing remarks, I just want to say that next year will be year 10 for Baraza. And we think it's really exciting. And so sort of like we're throwing ideas around sort of like we'll contact you obviously, but we're thinking of maybe at last having a publication of what was presented here this year, but even in previous years. So we'll contact our speakers and see if we can have something for Baraza at least. That's one thing. And also if you have any ideas of us sort of like having this two-day conference at last, maybe sort of, I mean, let us know how we can do it, how you want to be involved. I think you'll be fantastic. But thank you so much, everybody. Thank you, everybody who helped with the food. I mean, everybody just came in. Faiza, it's a pili. Everybody just went in and helped. And it was just amazing. You're all such amazing Wasohili. Asante Nisana. I'm really honoured to be here today. I think we should first congratulate Professor Harouk, who was recognised this year and the best place to applaud him clearly is Barazi. Secondly, I'd like to thank Ida, Dr. Ida, and I'm very happy to be here today. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for being here today. Ida, Dr. Ida, and Angelica Basteri for the hard convening of a conference. It's not easy, but thank you so much for having us here. I'd also like to thank all the volunteers and helpers, because behind the scene, to these wonderful people that you see, there are many others who are holding them up and ensuring that this wonderful conference does happen. We can applaud at the end so that we can... So we can move quickly, because I know that you're very tired. I want to thank all the panellists. I found all the papers really moving, healing, extending, challenging, all emotions. And I'm sure that you all travelled through so many emotions. The fact that this is living history, the buildings, we're in the middle of resolving this African slavery that happened. We're in the process of dealing with a global slavery. We're in the middle of major wars that are world shifting. We're going through a seismic shift with artificial intelligence and such like. So this moment is so important. And we did focus a lot on the eastern African region, which is, of course, the home of Kiswahili. We went to Congo. We went to the ocean. We went to Tanzania. We went to Europe. And our hip-hop person reminded us to go up by London to Menda Ulayah. The genre, representation, we had different forms from lyrical to the hip-hop. You know, the whole, the very scientific, dry, methodologically sound and all that. So it's a learning process even for us as scholars. I don't want to give you a presentation, which I could. But as Ida said, it would be wonderful. I remember when Baraza started 10 years ago, I could never envisage that it would grow into this magnificent. I found the quality of these papers very high. So I think a retrospective publication would be a great idea to celebrate the 10 years. I'd written so many things that I wanted to say, but I won't bore you with them because you were all here. But we do have people online who stayed with us the whole day. We'd like to thank them and to urge you to come physically next year. It's very important. They start saving your fares and applying for funding. And let's all meet here, hopefully for two days, is my wish. And I'd like to thank all the moderators who facilitated the wonderful conference. And for all of you for coming and staying and staying and staying.  The joy of a conference is having you who stay till the very end. Some people miss what was said, but I understand it's going to be live on YouTube. I will take an opportunity myself to watch some of it again. I've attempted many times to step in on many of the issues, but I had to restrain myself because I knew that I had these minutes at the end of the day. But all I can say is, asanteni sana, quahirini, t'no ashikuru n'yote, asanteni.