Okay, we're recording. Laurie, I'm moving you, don't worry. Jesse, that's a very artsy view. I'm trying to figure out your graph first. Sorry, I don't mean to be graphy or artsy. Okay, so we're still waiting on the right, but we can. Yes, we're waiting on Steve as far as I know. Okay. So, hello, everyone. We have a couple of members of our group who are not going to be able to stay for the full meeting, but we're nice enough to join us. To start so we could have everybody here to vote on. Chair and vice chair for next year. So, um, If I keep talking a little bit, maybe Steve. Um, Maybe we should. Oh, here we go. Yeah, it worked. Um, Steve, I was just stalling until you came on. So I think, um, in the interest of letting those who were not planning to attend today leave, I'm going to suggest we start with, um, the vote and then we'll go back to the minutes in the public comment. Does that work for everybody? Okay. Great. Stephanie, I'll turn it over to you then. Sure. Okay. So the first thing is, um, Uh, other folks who are interested in the chair position. And you can identify yourself or, um, If you want to nominate someone to be chair. So, um, you can indicate by raising your hand and then. I'll acknowledge you.  Okay. From your, from your face, I'm going to assume that's messing with your phone. Okay. Is there anybody interested in sharing? Hmm. Is there somebody who wants to nominate somebody to chair? And then we'll put them on the spot. Okay. Well, I would like to encourage our new members to, um, self nominate if you are in a position to be able to chair, because, um, We've been doing it for three years. And I think it's be really good for the committee. For new, newer members to do it. Dwayne has his hand up. Um, Without discussion ahead of time, but, um, Didn't know we'd run into the situation. So, um, And, and don't, if, if, if you're not, If you're not so inclined, that's fine. But I, I, I nominate, um, Steve, uh, to, to chair. Um, I think he's has his, um, Really, um, Had not only his passion, but his head really around what he does and can do and, and, uh, And is in tune with the relationship with the town council. Um, and, uh, and I take Andres point for sure, Uh, with regard to a newer member and maybe a newer member could co-chair, um, or chair, uh, but I, and Steve, Feel free to turn yourself down for sure. Cause, uh, I don't want to burden people with, uh, work that I'd, I'd rather not. So. Steve. Thank you, Dwayne, but I, I'm going to decline and, um, I'm going to continue with the work that I'm doing. And I really would like to focus on those specific efforts that I've been working on rather than trying to. Or heard the committee and other projects around. Okay. Any other nominations or self. I'll, I'll step on toes. Dwayne style. Um, I actually. I think any one of the people here would do a fantastic job. And that's something I really appreciate about this group. I'm thinking about, uh, Vasu's ability to consolidate information and present it graphically and just organizational skills. And being a new member of the committee and. Like Dwayne needing to not take on more. Perhaps I just, I feel like he would be a great, um, kind of manager of, of all of these ideas. And so I would nominate Vasu. Do you accept the nomination? Oh, well, thanks, Jesse. Um, Well, I mean. It's something I have to think about, but, um, You know, on one hand, I think the education and outreach committee is, is a lot already. And I've been connecting. We'll talk about the staff member updates, but we've been trying to connect with different groups. And so I think that's an important portion of what we should be doing. Um, Yeah. I mean, I've done program management at work. I can manage the strategy. I get that Jesse. Um, I don't know if I'm, if I have the connections, like, uh, you know, all of you do and, and the understanding of the different. Uh, you know, opportunities that we all have.  And, uh, Yeah. I think like Dwayne said. Maybe we should have thought about this right before the meeting and whether this is going to happen. Well, yeah. We had, I had sent out a message, you know, encouraging people to consider who they might nominate. So, or self nominate. So Laura. Yeah, I just want to, um, I don't know if it's a word of encouragement or not, but, um, you know, when this group started in, in 2019, um, I was nominated by someone I didn't know to be chair and, um, I, I took it on with a lot of, um, Not nervousness, I guess is the right word because I didn't know, um, you know, I've run, run meetings and shared things and built consensus at my job, but I'd never done it in town. And I certainly still struggle with understanding how decisions are made and who's doing what and what's going on. So I think that's one of the things that, um, You know, it'll be continued work in progress for everybody on this committee. Um, so I would, I just maybe encourage you or Stella or Lori or whoever wants to potentially run for chair or vice chair, um, to, you know, and I, and I, and this group has always been very wonderful and supportive, um, particularly with childcare issues and other things looking at you, Stella. So just throwing that out there too. I mean, a childcare issue as in we have no childcare. The childcare issue of no childcare. No, I don't know if all we will. Does anybody else, and one thing I will want to, I do want to say too is that no one is going to be expert in every single area of what you're working in.   Um, and I'm certainly, I will work very closely with whoever is chair and we always go over the agenda ahead of time and, you know, if there are things that come up, we'll, we'll meet about them separately from the group and, um, you know, I'm here to support you and in the leadership role as well. So, um, just putting that out there too.  Um, yes, um, uh, I think it would just be great to talk openly, you know, about people's life circumstances and experience and, and, um, but I understand we have to do it in a formal way. So, um, I'm going to nominate Laurie so we can hear from Laurie about it. Um, well, I'm flattered, but I think like I do feel pretty new on this, um, and at this and at dealing with the town as well. I've chaired plenty of things that you mass and other aspects of my life, but not for town. Um, so I feel like I'm still learning the ropes. I'm on the agenda for the first time today and I'm, and I'm still trying to figure that out. Right. So, um, but with that, I'd sort of like to ask Laura, what does the position, we just heard from Stephanie a little bit about how she sees the position. What do you see yourself doing? What were you doing as chair? Yeah, great question. Um, so some of it was, you know, purely procedural, you know, doing the agenda and, um, working with Stephanie to figure out what needed to be in the packet and making sure the agenda was right and getting that posted on time. Um, you know, early on we had a pretty clear, um, I think we're at an interesting inflection point of this committee. Um, I think I've said this before, you know, early on we were really focused on setting goals. So we spent a lot of time first, you know, six to 10 months really working on setting goals. The next year and a half, we were really focused on setting our climate plan. Um, and now we're focused, you know, we're moving into implementation. And so, you know, I think there's an opportunity for this chair to figure out the best way, you know, work with, with the committee to figure out the best way to move forward on implementation. And we think we have some really great ideas and I'm coming out of our retreat on that.  But if that's not something that chair wants to do, they can also delegate someone else on the committee to do that. So, um, you know, I think it's about consensus. I mean, I think a lot of my work, I would say is building consensus, trying to hear different people's point of view, trying to make sure we were capturing all of that and seeing if I couldn't, but from listening to everybody, figure out a path forward. Um, so I think anybody who's had experience doing that in project management or in other committees would be well suited to do that, to do that with this group and even potentially easier because we're all here for the same reason. Um, you know, we're here for a common goal and we volunteer to be here. So we're all here to, um, you know, we're all here to work towards the common goal. I will say the one challenge is, you know, we're all very busy and have things going on. So, you know, getting, getting folks to, to find time to do the work, I think is the biggest challenge. Yes, Stephanie. I want to add something to, um, as far as the implementation piece, because I think there's some confusion and the implementation is really not the responsibility of your committee. You can advise on the implementation, but it's not necessarily the responsibility of you to make sure, um, you come up with exactly what should happen because that's really, this committee is advisory to the town manager and the report, the climate action plan and resiliency plan that you put together is to guide the town manager. So, you know, sometimes I think you maybe put some additional pressure on yourselves that you don't necessarily need to, but you can certainly be engaged in the work I would say that Steve is doing with the CRC right now is a great example of the ways where you all can offer your expertise.  So you're working on the outreach and education. That's another piece, but you don't necessarily all have to do absolutely everything all the time at every meeting. You know, you really can hone in and focus on certain things on certain meetings because I think maybe part of the problem is people getting very overwhelmed by all of it. So maybe trying to bite this off in, um, digestible chunks might be easier. So with that in mind, I think, um, what I'd like to say is that I'm, again, I'm flattered. I think that I would be a better vice chair, um, because I feel like I still want to bite into some little piece of this and get my teeth around that before, um, trying to wrangle everything. Um, so I think I'd be happy to take a vice chair at nomination. Um, I'm also on sabbatical this year and my goal for sabbatical is actually to learn more about the energy transition and to get more involved in this sort of work. So, um, I'd like the time to read and figure stuff out without having to do organizational things. I'm sort of trying to shed some of the organizational stuff I usually do at UMass, for example. Um, but I think coming back next year, um, you know, I'd be happier then to be nominated again and I'd like to nominate Stella. Well, I think it's a very nice job of getting up and running on this committee faster than I have, for sure. Uh, that's very kind. I just can't do anything more than what I'm doing right now. Um, but on that note, I'll nominate Jesse. Jesse is not. Jesse, what's your reason for not, not being able to do it? Uh, well, um, I don't think I would do a good job because of the time. I think I'm already starting to miss four meetings, including the rest of this one. Um, I have sort of less thrilling and exciting. Both of my parents are in fairly dire physical health right now and I'm suddenly, um, driving to Boston once a week and it's not to play like a sob story. They're amazing and wonderful and it's all great, but two kids, full-time job. Um, I, I want to, it's all, I've already feel like I'm not doing a good enough job for this committee and I just agreed to, to step in and start helping Steve on the rent, some of the rental stuff. And so I just think I just think it, I think it's just too much and it, and it's interesting and I'm really appreciate what Stephanie just said about. I think we maybe are trying to do too much all at once anyway. And I think in general, um, I think of this chair and co-chair position as like, should be heavily supported by all of us. Ideally, it's not a, a giant lift compared to the rest. I think Laura has set a tone of doing a tremendous amount of work, um, which is great, but I also think, I also like keep coming back to this idea of sustainability is also having to be that our lives are sustainable. If we burn out and stop working a year, then, then it's not sustainable. Um, and we stopped doing it. So keeping it fun, keeping it love, lovely, joyful. Um, and I think I would, I would offer my support to anyone who can do that. So right now we have a Sue as a maybe with Lori, a definite interest in the vice chair position. So sorry, go ahead, Andrew. We have to turn from Don yet. I'd like to hear Don story. So I nominate Don. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. I don't know that I have any of those sorts of skills. I've, I've never really, you know, the kind of organizational skills and leadership skills that you're talking about. I've, you know, I've as a lawyer in a big Boston law firm and then at the US attorney's office and then on my own, um, I've never really had to kind of run meetings or, or do anything that would require me to run meetings. So I'm not sure I have the skill set to do it.  So I have more time. If I would stop having vacations, but I'm, I'm not sure that I have the skill set Andrea. Sorry, Andrea. Is anybody nominated Andrew should hear. Are you going to, are you nominating Andrew Laurie? Sure. Okay. Your turn, Andrew. Hang on. Oh, I'm sorry. For those who came in late, my grandbaby was just born a few hours ago. And I'm being called into action shortly. And no, I really can't do it. I have a full plate and now a grandbaby. No, I want to clear things off my plate to spend time with. So throwing it back to Vasu and Laurie. Yes. Yes. So back to the two of you. Are you interested as Vasu, does it make, you know, does it help you knowing that Laurie is willing to be vice chair? Well, I was originally thinking about vice chair as well. And Laurie, you talked about that. So. I guess Laura, I have a question for you. How many hours do you spend outside of this? That's the question meeting. So, so it depends on. On what we're doing. I think the work was most intense when we were working on the report. There's also the possibility that. You know, I don't know, Stephanie, maybe this is not a possibility, but you could treat. You could, I think we still need a chair and vice chair, but you could treat them more like a co-chair position. And, and do more work together. I was never able to manage that just because I. Would sometimes have to do the ECAC work. At 10 o'clock at night, because that was when I had time to do it. And so that wasn't, that wasn't useful for me, but I think that works for other committees as well. So that could be. Be an option have one as chair and name and one as vice chair, but you sort of work more closely together. Yeah, I guess if you were given an estimate of how much time you spent. For a week. Because I am in different committees too. So.  Not much like an hour extra. An hour or two extra. I don't know.  Not much like an hour extra, an hour or two extra. To coordinate with Stephanie on agendas and stuff. I think the, the challenge with chair. And I think this gets back to focusing. Which I've been trying to get this, this group to do for over a year now, I would say. Is if we want, if we want to do something. If we want to do something, if we want to do something, if we want to do something, if we want to do something, if we want to do something, if no one else is stepping up, then it kind of falls on the chair's responsibility or it gets. Not done. Right. So I think that's. And maybe that's a situation where I wasn't managing the group as well as, as we could have, but I would say the time where I had to do more work is when. You know, we needed to. Prepare a statement for. Somebody or, you know, I mean, I like the, I, you know, I think it could be fine for you to, to work as sort of work as co-chairs, if you're willing to do that. I'm mostly worried about being protective of my time through December through January, actually. And then come February, I will have a little more time, but I, like I say, I want to try to focus on other than organizational things. For a few months. I don't mind helping out. But that's, if you'd be willing to do it, I, you know, I can be relied on to, if you ask me, I'll probably do it anyway, because I'm a fool about things like that. And I'm spending far too much time. But, you know, if you would take the front of it for the first year, say, and we can swap places, if folks want to do that next year. Everyone. Well, so your position, I should note that this term is for a year. It's for a year. So it's one year. So, you know, next year at this time, we'll. Once again, have a nomination for a chair and vice chair. It's annual. So you're not committing beyond this one year. Did we have a vice chair before? Yes, Andrew. Oh, Andrew. Hi, Andrew. Can I, can I propose, if no one else is interested, can I propose that we postpone this to the next time we meet? I, I crumble under peer pressure if people want me to do it. I'll do it. So I just want to take some time and think about it too. And maybe even talk to Lori, Lori offline. Okay, sure. So we can put it on the next meeting's agenda, although we don't. We'll have to have a discussion about when our next meeting is. And I think we're going to put that a little further down. Because we won't have Laura or myself on the 29th. And then the meeting after that is July 13th. So we can put it on the July 13th agenda. Laura won't be here, but I think as far as I know, she's the only one that won't be available for that meeting, although that changes because we have three people today that. Are now about to leave. And we only planned for one. So. Is everyone okay then with putting this off? I mean, someone is going to have to be chair. So we do have to have a chair. So, you know, for all of you, if. After thought you decide you can't do it, then I think everybody needs to sort of think. Hard and fast about whether they really feel like they can make the commitment to do it. So it, I can understand. Wanting to. You know, have some time to think it through and.  And if Laura is not here for the next two meetings. Is that right? Correct. I will. Be chair if we haven't chosen new chairs and vice chair. So. There you get almost, you get a month. Yeah. Cause I don't think we can do it, Stephanie, when you're not here, right? Well, you could have a meeting on the 29th, but I think without you and me not here on the 29th, I think you should just make that the one meeting this summer that you skip because it'll also be our third meeting in June. So you could go right to the July 13th meeting is the next meeting. And Laura and Laura won't be here, but Andrea, you could share that meeting on the 13th. Is it possible for us to move it up a week since we'll be skipping? And would that allow Laura to be here? No, that would be July 6th. Laura will not. Yeah. Laura won't be here. So I'd have to check. I don't, I have to look.  And as I said, we have, we've already had two meetings. This is our second June meeting. And then we are going to have two meetings in July. I'm in July as well. So. Is that okay with everybody then? Yeah. So Jesse. Not only do I think it's okay. I think it's good to sit and think on it. And I'll just throw out the other statement of who, if anyone does become, someone will become chair. And I would encourage us to think knowing that everyone's kind of feeling the pressure to really work hard to make that a role that can delegate that it doesn't become a burden. And that we can share that load and it becomes, you know, it becomes a burden. And so we have just proven that we are a cooperative group. And can work together. So I just want to sort of plant that seed of the role of the chair. As being highly supported. And being able to delegate work to make it a lighter load. Yes. Also speaking of which we, I think Lori, you were up to take minutes at this meeting. I realized that and have actually been taking, but I didn't get all the nominations of who was nominating. So I'm going to take a minute and I'll go through the gaps and I'll fill them in. Okay. Thanks. Okay. So with that, it sounds like we're going to move this to the July 13th agenda. So I don't want to keep those of you who were kind enough to. To make the time to come to this meeting when you had other things. So, Andrew, congratulations. Jesse, all the best. And Dwayne, I hope you're having a relaxing time. So. Thank you all. And just again, I think I mentioned this last time, but I'm happy to talk to anybody offline. Specifically about the work of the chair and what. You could or couldn't do in the role. You know, so. Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any interest. Okay. So let's go to reviewing minutes. I move we accept them as they are. I have some comments. Let me pull it up. I think there are parts of the minutes where I know, for example, I think member for a talks about, you know, fireflies. I don't, I don't think that's really, I know we just talked about it. And I think there's other section where. I don't think we need to record all the information that was talked about during. During the meeting. I think the point of the fireflies and Steve, you can certainly correct me, but I think because Steve said they were early, some of that might be actually climate related. So. You know, that's why. That would be relevant to. A discussion of this meeting. Yes, that was part of the point of mentioning that. The. The reasons is a, at least two weeks early at least based on the way the plants and animals are responding. Not purely scientific observation. And it's, it's consistent with what we've been seeing in New England, you know, things are definitely not as they typically. Are on schedule. So. So if I say, I mean, I don't know, I think there was relevance to that being there, but do you. I think that's fine. I thought there was another comment that I had, but I can't find it. So I'm good with it. Okay. Okay, so Lori's motion stands to accept the minutes. Does somebody want a second? All second. Okay. I had a question about minute taking because of my first minutes, which is what's the is what's the convention on first versus last names because the minutes that I was working off as a template. What back and forth kind of chaotically. So I just wanted to say, and when I typically, if I really take the time, I change all the first names to last names. Okay, so I would say more formal, but first names is more readable. Yeah, but I would, because sometimes you have people with the same first name, I know we don't right now, but just as a standard format, you should just use last names. Okay. Okay, so I'm going to go for a voice vote. Lori moved bussue second. So Allison. I'm staying. And D. Yeah, sounds good. Bussu. Yes. Laura. Yes. Lori. Yes. Roof. Yes. Okay. The minutes are approved. Okay, I'm just going to make a note that Andrew. Dwayne and Jesse left the meeting. Okay. I'm opening it up to public comment. So if you are in the public and want to speak, please raise your hand electronically. Okay. No one has indicated they'd like to speak. Okay, so let's move on to updates. And I heard from Anna that she had an update, but she's going to have to leave the meeting early. So maybe we could start with her if that's okay with you, Stephanie, and then sure. Yeah, no problem. Okay, Anna, I've allowed you to talk. Thank you. Hi everybody. Sorry. Yeah, Laura, I just had to switch to my phone, but we are all good. So a couple of things. First, I do want to just take one moment and have a huge thank you to Laura for chairing. So gracefully for the past couple years, especially through the carp report, which was no small fee. And, you know, I can't really emphasize enough how much that's a driving document for the council really in the next many years. I think he gave us a deadline of 2030. So, you know, marking down those years, but we've got a deadline. And so thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Laura. And then a couple other things just that are coming down the docket. The biggest update is that the budget was passed at our last council meeting. And so there are a couple of sustainability. Well, there are a lot of sustainability elements in there and and I'm sure Stephanie will give you a good overview on those upcoming things that I want to make sure on your radar. A couple counselors are bringing forward a zero waste bylaw. I have not seen it yet, but I've heard that it's coming forward. So once that does get brought forward, I will pass it along to you all. And I think what might make the most sense is to if you can just maybe discuss it at a meeting or however you decide to handle it but would love your feedback on on that draft of a bylaw as we go into discussions. So once I know when that'll be introduced and what the timeline is, I will send that your way. And then the other thing is I'm exploring a bylaw around rental utility disclosures. This was something that Evan Ross former counselor had written but did not get around to introducing before his term ended. And so right now I'm going through it just to see does this still make sense or given the work of CRC on the rental registration bylaw so just kind of cross checking. And if it does still make sense to do a rental utility disclosure bylaw, I obviously will will need some partnership on that from easy AC. And so I would love whoever the next chair is for you to keep that in mind. Again, as I go through it if I decide that it's still still is different enough and does something that we need. And I might reach out to individuals to get your perspective on that as well. And then lastly, the other thing that is on my radar is the reporting for our capital inventory. And I know Stephanie does some elements of this. The things that I'm talking about are specifically for the joint capital planning committee. We get a report on all of the capital assets so vehicles, buildings, etc. I know I've talked about this before but now that the budget has been passed for fiscal year 23. And now is the time where I can write a memo to finance committee saying, these are the things that we want to know about our capital inventory so what do we need to know about vehicles what do we need to do about buildings, and then how do we use that information so again that's something that I would, I don't think would be smart for me to do alone. I think that's this is a kind of a prime spot to get ECAC input. I want to, I want to really make sure that we can tag team that so I guess I'm kind of maybe pitching some future agenda items if y'all are able to to add those looking down the road and that's something you're interested in. That would be great. I think that's all I've got. Is there any, are there any questions for me. And I'm on my phone so just just talk at me if you've got questions. Otherwise, I'm done. Yeah. This is Steve, I would be interested in taking a look at the, the draft utility disclosure that you were looking at and compare some notes. I've read about some strategies for doing that. And we can talk offline or another time about how that might work with the rental registration by law changes that CRC is working on. There's also great. Oh, sorry. Anna. I was just going to say that'd be great. Feel free to shoot me an email. And again, like what I have is is Evan's draft. I haven't really dug into it yet, but I'm happy. I would love your input. So yes, please. Great. And I think we should probably coordinate the three of us because there's also another effort that's underway by a whole other group that isn't even part of the RMI effort. That's several municipalities. So I can, and I've, I've been peripherally involved because there's just so much going on, but I do intend to get more information so I can share that with both you and Steve. Is it about about rentals and utility. Okay. Yes. Cool. Yeah, please, please let me know and, and also maybe Mandy to if she's not already tied in. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Great. Great. I'm just going to say that's a great thing. I feel like, you know, with five different approaches, we're at least going to get one thing. Right. That's, that's how it'll work. Great. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you so much. Okay. Okay. So quickly. So, so, I have a presentation clearing just happened for the fence installation, the fence installation is going to happen the week of the 27th. That's on the south landfill. So that will pretty much wrap up that project. And we'll be doing some kind of a ribbon cutting event at some point, I think in July or August. Council. The committee is made up of, or the working group is made up of four committee reps. Dwayne from. ECAC Laura Peglia Rulo from the concom. Jack gem sec from the water protection supply committee. And Janet McGowan from the planning board. And then we have three resident members who are Martha. Hannah. Dan Corcoran and Bob Brooks, who was formerly on the conservation commission. That group will be meeting for the first time. Next week on the 22nd at 930 in the morning. We did secure funding for a consultant to work with the solar bylaw working group that was the planning department had submitted for that capital request. And there's been $25,000. I believe that have been approved for hiring consultant to assist with the solar. Bylaw working group. Remember that separate from the assessment. The Fort River Farm Community Garden. Plot signups have been going gang busters. We have like 20 gardeners out there now. Which is really wonderful. This is a food justice food security effort initiative that we're working partnering with. Healthy Hampshire on. So that's been really fabulous to see that kind of turnout. And it's very diverse. It's really, it's really such a wonderful project. I can't say enough. Ribbon cutting events for both the Fort River Farm conservation area in the solar landfill are likely, as I said, to happen sometime in July or August. And unfortunately on a teed me up for information. I don't have my fingertips for you about the budget, but I'll try to get that information for next time. Steve. Yeah. The solar bylaw working group that say, you said June 22nd, 9am. Correct. And that's 30am. Yeah. That's a public meeting. Yes, they are. It's public meeting. It will be posted. We're working on developing the, the webpage. It's just in the queue of many other things that are. Communication director is overburdened with right now at the moment. I'm sorry. Did you try to send us a link to that meeting when, when it becomes available? Sure. Just know that it will be posted in the calendar, the town website calendar as well. So that's always the official posting place to find meeting information. Just some, and that's, I'm saying that for the benefit of the public as well. Because sometimes folks don't know that. But in the end, it's just the other way around. That's the group. Okay. And Stephanie reminds me again, is it you that. That's leading that group from the staff side, or is it you and Chris jointly meeting that? Chris, Brestrup and I together. But primarily I'll be sort of, I think mostly serving as the lead. For the group. I'll be that I feel I'll be the primary staff liaison. Okay. So Chris and I put together an agenda today. I'll be there. You know, until we elect a chair. Which hopefully will yield results. I just said, it's funny because I said today it's like, nobody wants to lead anything anymore. So. Do, is there a timeframe? Like, does this group have an end date? Yes, they do. Yeah. It's May 31st. They have to be completed. It's a one year. Basically a one year effort. It can be extended if certainly if they get to a point where. If they get to a point where they're not going to be able to move forward. If they can move forward for some reason, they can't move forward, then they can. Request an extension of the town council for the committee, but right now it's targeted as May 31st of 2023. And I don't really see a reason why they wouldn't. Be done. At that time. Okay. Um. Any questions for Stephanie. Okay, great. This is not a question for you, Stephanie. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But anyway, I just want to publicly state that I'm disappointed that. This working group when they. Was meant to have five committee members and two. Community members of which just a reminder that committee members are all community members. Um, and because there wasn't a representative from the board of health, they added another community member and didn't first come to the committees to see if they would like an extra person. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. This committee is really lacking. The focus on the climate goals that it needs. So I just want to publicly state that. Okay. You can't member updates. Or Steve, did you want to add something? Yeah, I want to, I guess I can add to that. I sort of feel the same way. I don't know these community members at all. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the committees and I think they're all excellent. I think we all can, if we wish, remain involved as both ECAC members and community members. I would encourage people to tune into the meetings and make comments. They could be certainly be personal. Comments. And then we can also help Dwayne. Prepare. Hi. Hi, everybody. I'm going to introduce to you a couple of things that we need to represent the climate needs as best as possible. Just for a quick background. Martha Hanner is a planetary scientist. Bob Brooks. Is a forester has a forestry background. Was a professor at UMass. And Dan Corcoran currently, I believe, works at UMass. As a researcher and also as a forestry background.  That's not why I just shared that information just so you know. Okay, thanks.  Oh yeah I just wanted to say it's kind of a question comment for you on your update. I, I'm really interested and also professional and amateur background in the community gardening stuff. I don't think that's the focus of this committee right now, but I just wanted to flag that and have that on your radar that. Yeah, if you want to reach out to me separately. Yeah, any any support in that. I'd be interested in a moment. Okay, sure. Okay great you can't remember updates. Yes, Steve. I can give an update of the progress that we have made on the rental housing energy efficiency. This is something that third, those of you are somewhat new I've been working on with Andra for at least a year, along with some help from RMI and two other community members Chris Riddle and Felicia. So just checking the day here last very beginning of June, the CRC the MR CRC that's the Community Resource Council which is an arm of the town council, and they are often charged with sort of developing the details of the Council so they are working the CRC is working on revising the rental registration by law. That's in town that's been a town for what 10 years or more. And that requires anyone renting doing sort of normal apartment renting to to register their planning and going through a fairly major revision on that. So we're meeting in the beginning of June Stephanie and I attended and provided some background, and I'm pleased to report that they were very open to our ideas for improving energy efficiency of rentals. What the CRC is doing now is they are drafting a draft new rental registration bylaw, and then it will be going out to, I think, probably more town staff, some town staff is involved at the moment. So it will be a quick review, it'll be going back to the council, and at some point, so it'll get revised a lot along the way and then at some point the council will vote on adopting it or not. So right now it's compiling and putting together and discussing lots of details about the rental registration. So we're very happy to hear and excited about our ideas for improving rental and energy efficiency. I had shared with them two reports that sort of outlined strategies for doing this one is a report by RMI called better rental better city, and another report by the American Council on energy efficient economies, called a new lease on energy guide for energy efficient rentals. Let's take the idea and one of the first things that we are asking for was more questions on the rental permit application that that property owners have to fill out each year. And there's now language in that draft new bylaw that will allow the town to ask questions about sustainability energy efficiency and utility information on the dwelling units to be rented that the principal code official deems reasonable and appropriate. And this allows the principal code official to sort of choose those questions and perhaps change them over time without the bylaw itself having to be changed. And it goes on to say questions such as heating fuel source and type age of the heating system presence of photovoltaics or electric vehicle charging stations on the property and a few other things. So that that's great that that gets in there will allow us if that gets adopted to have much better insight on to the both the appliances the heating ventilation air conditioning domestic hot water appliances and at homes as well as features like photovoltaic panels and vehicle charging. We've also talked about our ideas that our group has been talking about exploring for some sort of energy assessment to be completed to be required as part of getting a rental permit. These are building energy assessments are at least the ones that I've been looking at mostly. And they're usually you go through a checklist that looks at the types of walls, how much insulation is in the attic. And the efficiency of the heating appliances and so forth. And then these go into the interim usually, well, they go into some software that reduces all that information into a score. It might be a one to 10 score for some of them or it might be, I think one popular one has a zero to 150 score kind of like SAT scores with 100 I think being average. If you're interested in that they asked some questions about it, and sort of, we're excited to hear more and I've sort of promised that our group will bring them more information on these different options for assessing buildings. And I'm working with Andra and Chris and Felicia and I've roped in Jesse a little bit to try to explore there's several different ones that are available including one by the Department of Energy that's free to use and it looks like there's a one page form that might be pretty easy to use. So that's that's that's what we're working on. And we'll hopefully give the town some ideas for how to implement this building energy assessment. The idea being looking for notes that I wrote on a envelope but don't see it. The first phase would be to try to identify the buildings that are the least efficient and would have sort of the biggest bang for the buck for some focused efforts to improve energy efficiency. And from what I've learned that you know that would be the buildings that have no insulation in them are really really old heating systems. So for the first year or two or three it might be trying to find those identify those buildings and help the owners with information and finance, connecting them to financial assistance so they can make improvements. And then we might have more information inside might be able to get past those really bad buildings and start sort of working up the chain of buildings to some of the buildings that are only slightly bad. And hopefully then we would have a better sense knowing more about the buildings, what we might target whether that would be looking at the heating appliances or air sealing or insulation, or all three that we don't know yet until we have a better idea of the building stock. So that's that's the developments we have a fairly short period of time because CRC I believe wants to sort of finish the drafting of the bylaw. So what is that Stephanie, do you remember is that like in the next month or two, want to finish the sort of a draft bylaw and then start to put it out the public comment and review. Yeah, I think it was within a month or so. Yeah, that was my understanding that I remember anyway. So, so we have just a fairly short amount of time to sort of pull together these ideas, get it in the draft, and then sort of refine it, defend it if necessary during the public review process. And just a quick question. Yeah. Everything you just mentioned is part of this one bylaw right because it's a lot of different pieces. Yeah, it sounds like yes. Yeah, okay. Just wanted to sort of the two big buckets here is to allow the bylaw to ask information additional information about the buildings and to have the bylaw or perhaps authorize or require these building inspections, right, as part of the rental process information and assessment and yeah, and then maybe requirements from there presumably there's a follow up. I don't know if it'll be part of this bylaw or another one to follow up with these required changes. Right. That's right. Yeah, that would be sort of the phase three which would be to add some sort of threshold that if buildings are below a certain score, then they will need to be updated in some way. My gut sense is that we may not be able to develop that fully right now, and that might have to come after a couple of years of collecting data. See what percent of the buildings are rental units. What percent of the buildings in town. I don't know. 56% or so of town residents are renters. And one of the things I hope to do with our little group is to analyze the rental data, the rental housing data that we have. It's not as complete as we would like. But I think we can still go in there and answer some questions. We have how data for rental housing so I don't know if we can answer what percentage of housing is is rental housing. But we would like to know more say what percentage of it is standalone housing built before 1950. That might be good candidates for air sealing and insulation. And as JPCC, I believe the building inventory. Maybe we can. I don't know. Yes, perhaps. I can offer some if it's okay. So JPCC is just town owned buildings and vehicles so that wouldn't be covered in this. Steve as I'm listening I think the part that you're talking about. I want to let's talk more because I think that the part you're talking about I think might be a tough ask for this. I don't know if there's a rental registration by law, but I wonder if there's a way to instead of, well, maybe for maybe adding a phase between two and three and incentivizing by reducing registration fees versus requiring changes. I think those are two really big options that are that could be on the table. So incentivizing could be something that we look at with rental disclosure with a rental disclosure by law like that could be utilized to kind of take that next step. If a lot of the initial thoughts that we're going to go in it are covered in the new registration by law. Does that make sense. Yes, that makes sense I think we have to sort of figure out what we can get into this current rewrite of the registration by law, what makes sense to be in the registration by law and what might make sense to be in other sorts of future bylaws. Yeah, yep. Stephanie, do you want to announce at least formally they that the grant has been awarded. It was at least it was not the empower the CEC grant that was announced on the town web page earlier this week that we've talked about a million times and said we embargo the information so we kept sharing it. Yes, sure. So it's official. Yes, and I did get the fine I got a final draft of the contract which still has not yet to be it's got to be signed. So we still haven't engaged in the contract but yes so the mass CEC and power grant for $25,000 has been awarded. So the CEC is partnering with Family Outreach of Amherst. They are primarily going to be the ones who will be administering a survey to renters in the community to find out about just to get basic information about the sort of comfort levels and the rent or like what you know some very basic, not many questions just to sort of get eke from them like what are the issues that they have, you know, other problems with windows or their problems with drafts. Do they do they or don't they have control over their thermostats so those types of questions that can lead to get some information about, you know how to address the efficiency of rental rental housing stock. So I think something will happen over the summer and the end result will be basically a white paper at the very end of all the gathering of that data. But it should just you know I think a lot of this is going to be led by Family Outreach because they've engaged in hired community members to do the outreach and they're all I think they're all renters. I put it back up yet. I just wanted to quickly respond to Vasu in 2020 I believe 37.5% of our homes were rentals. So 62.5 our owner occupied yep but that was 2020 so you know who knows two years. Thanks. Yeah Lori. I just want to add that I, I think ought to be mentioned in this context is I don't know how many of you have noticed this but as a homeowner in Amherst, I have been a little bit alarmed by the number of investors that are buying up properties investors from California and from other places that they're not even here, and they're going to be renting them to students. So I think that's pushing up housing prices which is pushing up rental prices which is, you know, it's this terrible vicious circle that we're in now with these rising prices and a lot of it is being driven I think by these outside investors coming in and scooping up single family homes, turning them into multi family dwellings or just putting a lot of students in them. It's a national trend national trend and it's something that is here now and I just thought that it's something we might try to. I don't know if we're the right place to think about it but it certainly is going to play into all of this. It's certainly making for a very unequal. It's exacerbating inequities let's put it that way. The CRC discussions on the driving the rental registration bylaw changes. A lot of it has to do with the sort of the problem properties where the inspectors have been called out frequently. And I believe they're proposing a new category of rental which is a student rental which has several unrelated people in it and they'll be the draft has I believe has slightly more stringent inspection standards for those places. It doesn't quite address the problem that you described Lori, but as when this rental registration was first passed 10 plus years ago at large part of it was sort of the problem with noisy student rentals was enough to drive public opinion to encourage the town to adopt this in the very first place. Okay great any other members have an update. Best to and then Stella. Yeah so after I shared the outreach calendar with all of you last time and we listed some of the advocacy groups I also talked to Shalini and she sent me a list of people that I can talk to a research to Billy Spitzer, who is the director at the Hitchcock Center. We met last earlier this week. We had a really nice conversation and talked about the youth programs that they have at the Hitchcock Center. And, you know, we're talking about how we can influence the adults as well because I think Hitchcock does mostly focus on the youth schools and around the area, Amherst and Northampton. And my other recommendation to him was, can we get all the advocacy groups together and have a discussion around what we need to do feels like everyone's doing things on their own. And so I was also talking to show me about this and we looked at the Amherst calendar. And let me share my screen. One thing that is Stephanie we wanted to talk to you is in the Amherst calendar here. There is a, there are dropdowns here that's, I mean I can, anybody can go in the community can go in and add a new event. We're asking if it's possible to add a dropdown for sustainability, with the intent being. Right now I don't know what everybody's doing all these different groups are doing and I talked to Billy and asked him if there's, you know, something that he can add all his events into this page. You know, meet continuing to talk to the other advocacy groups and we can all have one location for all the events I think it'll be helpful. But for that we need to have a separate choice field here for sustainability. I did get the thoughts I shall need talk to Paul about it. And he said the town offers a community calendar but not for separate interests and so she wanted me to consult with you get your thoughts. Yeah, or the committee I got confused as who you were directing that to us who I'm sorry to use Stephanie but I mean I'm open to listening to all the other eCAC members as well and see what they have to say, but it was meant for you Stephanie wanted to ask you. We talked to the communications director about how we have all of this laid out, because we don't have it by interests and there is and I was going to say the page that you were on was for official town committees. So, events, you know that the sustainability festival doesn't show up there it shows up under events, which is a separate community calendar tab. So, in a way, you know they, they're by events not by interests, right that's how that whole thing is organized by when the date of an event is happening. So, I could certainly talk to the communications director and see if that's a possibility, but I'm not sure how unwieldy that might get, but I can, I can ask. Any other thoughts on that. And then, if not, my second comment up Stella, do you have something. That's unrelated. Okay. And then there's going to be a UMass alumni event at the Hitchcock Center in July. Sorry, what was that a UMass alumni event at the Hitchcock Center. Yeah. Hey, great. Thanks so I'm so. Yeah, so the retreat. I read talks about maybe me taking up some of the transport stuff. It got a little bit derailed by my daughter breaking her leg but Steve sent me a really, really, really, really great document of some research he had done on that, mostly with respect to electric car charging stations and increasing those. So that's a great document with a lot of like really clear action items. And then there's also, I had talked about maybe going and either sitting in or I think people had talked about presenting but to the to attack to the transport advisory committee. And they have a meeting tomorrow actually which maybe I'll sit in on just to get a sense of what, what they're up to. So there's not like redundancy. But I kind of don't think there is because I don't know if anybody else has seen this but they created a really incredible bicycle and pedestrian plan, like really incredible. It's great. It's long and wonderful and I didn't read it in great detail but I skimmed the whole thing. And that also just the existence of it kind of answers the question that it seems like they're really active on the bike and pedestrian piece of transport. It probably does make more sense for us to focus. If we do put some time and energy into transport on motorized vehicles with obviously the understanding that as it says in Steve's document. Well I'm not going to quote Steve's document to paraphrase Steve's document. I think it would increase increase, you know, single occupancy or low occupancy motorized vehicles but it probably does make make more sense for us to focus on on that as opposed to the bicycle and pedestrian stuff, which it seems like tack is really, really on top of. So that's why that's my first impression not having been to one of their meetings yet. Yeah, I do think it would. I think I don't know if something already she might have written this connected you with their chairs to to. So if you wanted to go and just introduce yourself and see if they have any questions about the e-cac work and the carp work. I mean, you know, I think that would be great. But I also agree that it makes sense to sort of state staying communication but also transportation is a huge beast and there's lots to do so there's no need for us to focus on the same things. Right and I think I think Steve's thought that it does definitely fit in as kind of a sub piece of some of some of the rental and with respect to electric car supports. It's into some of the rental by law work. Yeah, definitely. Okay, great. Um, I just have one update as well. Um, so I just saw actually on the news today that Minlow M E N L O Park California has made done a partnership with block power to electrify 10,000 homes and buildings by 2030. And put those we've talked about this in this in this group but block powers the group that presented that's working with if the car, and there is that presentation that Andra group helped organize with them a few months ago. It has been finalized. I mean just reading like a Yahoo news article but um, it was a partnership that was approved through a passage of a resolution of the city council. Um, so it just made me think, like, given our focus on housing efficiency and rental housing and, you know whether or not we should really be as a committee just focusing full kind of full throttle on on this, this area of work and seeing what would have been to do something like this at Amherst like even just mapping out like what would be the steps. Um, so I'd be willing to think on that. And maybe come back to this group next time with some ideas. Yeah, I'd love to work on that as well. Hi, so um, the great news is that we've had a lot of good discussion and updates. I mean, we are nearing the end, well we still have 45 minutes left, but um, okay, so I think next up. Sorry, I lost my agenda here. Let me get it again. And then you had education and outreach and then business. So we may have covered some of this and I know Joanne's not here but is there anything to say on the solar planning and Amherst piece. I'm sorry. I was just going to say that I, I included the revised solar permitting pathway flow chart. That's been dramatically altered since the last one I showed you which really had to do with a specific project. This is a more generalized path and I just wanted to share that with you all because I don't even think our newer members saw the old one. So I just thought I'd take a minute. It's relevant to the solar bylaw effort that's being developed. So if you just give me a minute, I'll share my screen. Yeah, great. And thank you for making this definitely because you know how much I love a flow chart.  So hold on one moment. Okay, are you all seeing that now. Yeah. So we just wanted to sort of give an overview of course this does not cover every single scenario because each project is different. I mean, if you've had any work related to permitting, then you realize, you know, there's always issues that come up that are different from others so it's never a one size fits all and you do the best that you can with the regulations that you've got so this was specifically for addressing ground mount solar. But the typical pathway is when a project comes to the town when you know sometimes a developer will just literally walk in and say I want to do this project here in this particular location. People sometimes have a like a pre application meeting with them to sort of talk with them about what it is they're doing to get a sense of what they, what pathway they might need to follow so it sort of starts here with kind of a general discussion. So these other staff are brought in so for instance if we know they're going to be wetland issues will bring in the, the wetlands administrator, if we think that there might be a need to impact some kind of historic structure, then there might be, you know, other people who are brought in so this is just kind of a very informal pre application meeting that happens typically, but then that helps guide the applicant to submit a formal application that gets submitted to the ZBA, the Zoning Board of Appeals. And they'll do review and if the application has everything, you know that that's required, then they will file the application with the town clerk. And that is where there'll be a legal add submitted about the application and a butters will be notified about the application as well because then they will schedule a ZBA hearing. So, from there, the application then goes to the planning staff, and if it hasn't already been submitted to other staff at this point is where it will be sent to the well and administrator maybe the town engineer. There's typically a standard distribution path for various town staff and boards and committees that happens, but if there's like an additional one that typically isn't notified then this is the point at which they may send it for review. I'm just throwing that this out there, you know, for no real apparent reason but like maybe the Water Protection Supply Committee might potentially want to have a look at something. Not necessarily, but you know, depending on the issue they might. So, you know the questions that we basically ask our first you know if there are wetlands on site, then it's going to follow this pathway for Conservation Commission review so they're going to meet with the wetlands administrator. The application is going to get submitted under the, you know, the wetlands bylaw and regulations then there'll be public hearing process. If they're an endangered species, then they will have to submit an application to the natural heritage and endangered species program. If it meets certain thresholds under the mass environmental policy act, then those will also have to get submitted for review, and these two agencies will submit their findings directly to the Conservation Commission. The Conservation Commission is having their hearing hearing on a specific application. If these two other agencies have been notified and had information submitted, the commission will obtain that information before they make their decision. So then they'll make a determination that maybe more information is needed, or that it's sufficient enough in the project can go ahead without any further review. So they may decide that they need the full notice of intent and then they'll eventually issue an order of conditions. That decision by the Conservation Commission will then sort of come down further down in this process where it will go directly to the planning board and the ZBA for their consideration as part of their decision. So one of the questions that will be considered is whether any town land or anything downtown, if it's a town-sponsored project, if there's going to be signage, then it's going to maybe go to the design review board. They're going to submit their information to the planning board. If it requires building removal or structure impact and it's historic building, they're going to have to have review by the Historic Commission. If the project has any kind of impact to stone walls or public shade trees, then the application is going to have to go to the public shade tree committee and the planning board. And all of these are going to these agencies and review is all going to filter to the planning board. So the ZBA process happens, but it also simultaneously they'll also be a planning board review. And all of this information is basically going to get funneled to the ZBA. And then finally, the decision is ultimately issued by the zoning board of appeals. So that's, again, this is a very generalized permitting pathway, but just to show that, you know, any one project can have multiple pathways of review for one project. So, you know, just to be aware of what is involved when an application is submitted and how many different bodies and staff will review a project. And also that there are opportunities in this process for public comment and review. So for instance, the, the Conservation Commission has a public hearing process, the ZBA and the planning boards both have public hearing processes. The Historic Commission will have their public meetings and, you know, may comment during their, during their meeting as well. So there are various steps along the way for people to, to weigh in on projects but of course the the feedback or the, the concerns that the public may have need to be addressed to these specific relevant bodies that should be relevant to what the committee or board is focusing on. So for instance, you wouldn't come and talk about a historic structure to the concom that you may care very passionately about it, but that's not the place you would bring that information to. So, so anyway, this is just to say that it's a very, very involved process. And when you ask me sometimes about like linear decision making, why I sometimes say, I wish I could say it's this, but it's not always. This is a perfect example because a project may not necessarily follow this particular path. Some might, but some might not. Others may not, you know, may not have some of these issues. So it may be a shorter pathway. So again, it depends on the project. I hope this is somewhat helpful to at least identify the various boards and committees that may be involved in decision making for a potential solar large scale ground mount solar project. Does anybody have any questions about this. Stephanie just a comment, I guess. I mean this is a good process but also very bureaucratic right no surprises but I'm just wondering how long would it take from start to finish depending on the path it takes I know it can change but the scenario goes through all these review boards. How long does it take from start to finish to get a decision made it completely depends on the project, because you know it depends on the complexity of the project or the size of the project. I can tell you with, I'll just use the solar landfill only because that's one that I was directly involved in and I know that one. And we were because we were on a landfill in because we were also having a conservation restriction. Put on the South landfill as part of the development on the North North landfill. So that that project took, you know, I'd say the whole permitting took about a year or so. Again, it can take less it can take more there are other projects that are, you know, almost the same size, but they were on private land and they went much faster, because they didn't necessarily have the same issues or they didn't have wetlands. You know, again, it depends on the conditions that you're dealing with so I would say it could take anywhere from maybe best case scenario. This is, you know, four to six months to a year sometimes even more. Yeah, that's definitely a long time but thank you. Yeah. Laura. Yeah, thanks Stephanie this is super helpful. So I guess just what's coming to my mind is like, is there a place in this process by which the climate benefit and the benefit to meeting our goals is somewhere calculated or required to be calculated or you know, I don't know just that's something that's coming to my mind the other thing that's coming to my mind and I know that we are just an advisory committee and not a regulatory committee, but it just strikes me as, as, as there's no put there's a process for ecac. And maybe there shouldn't be, but like, I still feel like all of these committees that are making decisions, all these regulatory committees that are making decisions about these types of projects, projects should have the full information of the impact this is going to have on the climate goals and maybe that is a role that ecac could or should play and then maybe just wondering where that could fit in. So to your answer, the development of the solar bylaw would become part of this process. Right, that's going to be part of the ZBA is response. So those things should get built into the solar bylaw in terms of, you know, your to your, what you've been saying all along is that somehow the climate goals should somehow built be built in. So that's a point at which you would probably install them. It doesn't really.  But again, this is all regulatory. So I would say your opportunity for regulatory input would come with the solar bylaw. So we could put into the solar bylaw, something about that. Well, potentially, potentially. Yes, I mean that's what you may all want to bring an advocate for when that's being developed. That's a great, great point. Thanks Stephanie. I see Steve and then Stella. I don't know if Donna was first but that's a great point Laura and I was thinking along the same things we may want to suggest to the solar bylaw committee that you see AC does some kind of a cost benefit analysis that includes climate. We'll have to think about what that could be. And we'd have to only, we could propose it to that group for their consideration and then advocate for it. And then there's that opportunity in the new bylaw. Mostly I wanted to comment on having been part of the process for the two fields at Hampshire College several years ago. This is a great overview of the permitting pathway through the town of Amherst and the regulatory departments of Massachusetts. There are two other equally complex if not more complex things that solar developers have to go through and one is connecting with the. Massachusetts solar smart solar program, which is typically done at the same time as this and then the third one is is applications through the utility ever source in our case for an interconnection agreement. And that one in particular is if you were to try to make a chart of it it would be a tangled mess of spaghetti. Those typically take years for the particularly the utility to evaluate the impact on the grid what kind of upgrades might be needed on the power lines in the neighborhood. And so the developers are faced with this sort of three different reviews of different aspects but they are interconnected and so sometimes the utility might say no you can't make it that big or it has to be different and that might impact how the permitting is in front of the conservation commission or conservation commission might make a change and that requires a change over on the utility application. The Massachusetts program the SRAC program are sorry it's now the smart solar program has a whole series of criteria whether or not a project can receive the incentives the smart solar incentives which are crucial to pretty much every project that's going to connect to the grid. And they have a whole set of criteria as to whether projects are allowed for those incentives. And that might that includes a review on whether there's endangered species wildlife habitat on the parcel, not necessarily on where the solar array would be built but on the parcel, as well as other factors whether it's a brownfield whether it's a forest whether it's developed land, all of those things can influence the incentives and hence the economic liability of these things. It's no wonder that solar projects can take three to five years for development before they actually are powered on to the grid, and many projects sort of fail to develop just because of the time that takes. It could be potentially great projects but the investors don't want their money tied up for three to five years in a process so this is what those other two, besides the permitting flow chart, make it really really difficult for developing solar in Massachusetts in Massachusetts is one of the better states in the country for it. So it's a tough, it's a tough thing to do. I'm done. Yeah, I'm just noticing and this is probably my own ignorance because I'm not so familiar with town permitting processes and I've never seen this is a great flow chart. I, it's climate adjacent, I guess, but I'm just, I'm noticing that it doesn't look like there's so many elected officials involved in this process. There's like, democracy and public voice which like can become an equity equity issue. I'm just wondering who the breakdown, because the boards are all appointed right is anybody involved in this direct flow chart elected or no. No, these are all appointed committees. But they're so they're appointed by the town manager, and then they are confirmed by the town council so they do go before the town council for confirmation. And, but you know the process is similar to how you came to be as part of this committee. And yeah, I, you know, I mean, I don't at all disagree about that particular issue. I mean it's been better since we're on zoom people have more access to these committees and the committee meetings because otherwise, all of these processes typically were held, you know, municipal buildings, for the most part, almost all of them were held in town hall. And so people physically had to get here to attend. And from my experience when I was working with the conservation commission, typically the people that engaged when they were concerned about an issue was a lot of times the same people. But yes, no there are no elected officials as part of this process, because this is the sort of regulatory process. But you know the bylaws and the development of the legal framework is a construct of the town council. Right so they're, they're the ones who weigh in on developing the bylaws and all that in the first place. Stephanie that raises a question of my mind, then, can town council overrule a ZBA decision. Thanks time. No, no, no, they are regulatory board and they have legal authority to, you know, we, you know, these are all, these are all legal processes we have legal requirements of when meetings have to be held when we have decisions need to be made. And they, and we typically report to the state immediately, you know, when we make decisions so no. They can make you know they can sort of generate the laws and the, you know, the bylaws in the community. But they don't have the authority to overrule. Don you had your hand up. Yeah. Having gone through a number of permitting processes, not necessarily for solar but I do want to comment Stephanie this is an excellent flow chart. Thanks for all of us to understand and I think you were saying this in so many words. This whole, this is why the zoning bylaw is so important. This is because all the ZBA does is apply the zoning bylaw to the facts of a particular application. Any of the considerations you were talking about or that we might think should be important factors on to be in the bylaw for the the zoning board to look at is where we could have the input because all the zoning board is going to do is apply the zoning bylaw to the particular application. And it either complain and that gets very complex to I mean some things depending upon what the zoning bylaw says some things can be built as a matter of right. Some things were in some zoned areas they require special permits. Those are very different processes. You know the zoning bylaw is going to have use limitations in what can be built in a particular zone. And it's also going to have dimensional requirements as to, you know, this setback requirements and height requirements and all sorts of other requirements. But both the concom and I think Stephanie you know this because I mean you're just applying the wetlands protection act and Amherst wetlands bylaw and the zoning board or the planning board, depending upon in our case the zoning board is simply applying the facts of a particular proposal to the to the existing bylaw and and and whether it meets the requirements of the existing bylaw. So our real input is going to be in this bylaw. Yeah, I guess that was the point I was trying to make in doing all of this was that's your, that's your opportunity. And I stopped sharing. Yeah, that'd be great. Thanks, Stephanie. And thank you again for pulling putting that together and going through it for us. Any other questions for Stephanie or any other. So we know when the next meeting is unfortunately it's not at a time I can join but hopefully those who can will be able to. And maybe at our next meeting, Laura, there were two more things on the agenda. One of them I had prepared. Yeah, sorry I'm just finishing up this piece. Was that not clear. Sorry. Um, so we might want to talk a bit at our next, at our meeting until and on the 13th about how we, the best way Duane wants us to interact with him through the committee and. And so maybe we'll put that on the agenda. That was, that was it for that. So, yeah, let's go to the next agenda item. Outreach and communication. Don't remember what was. What we had to talk about. Yeah. Sorry. It's six o'clock. So you're having your robot voice again. And you may have already given an update. Well, maybe if you want to look at the minutes and see if there's anything specific, unless Stephanie, you know, all it said was next steps for planning education and outreach, how and who. That was identified in the minutes for this discussion. Okay, I mean the only thing that I can say I mentioned earlier is I'm connecting with different groups and I know Steve you expressed interest as well in being part of this so I'll hopefully get together with a bunch of different advocacy groups and in the library as well and see if we can plan something. Yeah, that sounds great. That's so we can also invite groups to come to our meetings too if like there's a group out there that's doing stuff that you know we want to bring in and have tell it like, you know that may, you know, have them tell us what their plans are in terms of communication outreach around climate action and then we can coordinate that way too so. Okay, yep. Okay, so then business community outreach. Okay, so I had, I have mostly questions I what I want to do is share a single slide that has a lot of questions on it. I was hoping to use this part of the meeting to brainstorm a little bit about what needs to be done and how to do it because I feel like I'm just getting my head around all the different things the committee has done. And I've sort of tried to enumerate some of them and how outreach. I wasn't thinking so much business as I was landowners as I was landlords, right. But businesses sort of fits in there too. So if I can I'd like to share a screen. Screen to with my questions. Just put you all back now so I can see you. Okay, and you should be able to see, huh, what's that that's not right. Can you see my. Oh yeah, can you see the push for new rental registration by law. Okay good. So these are the sorts of things that I know we've been doing and I'm learning a little bit about more about every week. I'm slowly making my way through all the reports and things that have been sent my way. But what I wondered about this new rental registration by law, for example, is is there a need for outreach around that and if so how do we do that and we reach out to. And along with that, there was sort of this number three I'm going to skip to that because there was a mention at in April, April I think about a pilot project to do a deep energy retrofit on a multi family dwelling. I'm just wondering if you know anything has been done on that and if not how do we do that and can we reach out to somebody even before we have the input from the registration by law about where the low hanging fruit are you know where the most buildings most in need of something can we get a pilot program going at the same time. I'm just going to throw some of these out there so that all of them are in the air and then if we have time we'll go through them I hope. So this empower grant that finally was finalized I saw the announcement of it this week online that was very nice. I wondered if landowners if the landlords are involved at any level at all in that and so how do we bring them into the discussion or how do we reach out to them with the results of whatever discussion comes out of that. So what's the best case program. Has anyone in Amherst actually made use of it yet, we talked about it, but I don't. I don't know if anyone's actually used it yet. And if so what's the best way to reach out to landlords again and enlighten them about it and get them involved in using it. And then there's a couple of items from the carp that I glommed on to one of them as well one of them was developed in the deep energy retrofit. And the outreach. So it's basically that same thing again but in partnership with mass saving community choice aggregation, which I don't quite know how what that means or how to go about doing it what does it mean to have an outreach and engagement in partnership with is there some, I'm not quite sure what that means. There's also the engaging conversation with residents businesses community organizations ever source, etc. For smart meters smart meters are mentioned in the in the car. And I'm wondering is anybody has that even happened the smart meters exist in Amherst if they do I don't even know about them. And who's doing it how do we get landowners to step up. And then you know just in case in this discussion we don't cover this who are the name do we have a list of the landowners do we have a way to contact them do we have an organization they all show up at every other Thursday. You know, is there is there some place that we can go to speak to them directly. So that's all the things that are going through my mind when we talk about outreach to landowners and I was hoping to get input on any or all of these from you guys. We've been at this a little bit longer. Do we have time to do a little brainstorming around this or is there a particular person I should reach out to to get, you know, I can do this one at a time and talk to Steve and talk to, you know, we can maybe spend a little time brainstorming around this. How to proceed. So one is throughout a thought here, one thing that came up 70 and thinking about our conversation you me and Andra had with Paul, I think you raised a really interesting idea of, you know, could we bring together, even just the forward sort of the developers in town that have been forward leaning in terms of developing low energy use properties, and maybe have an initial discussion with with them about, you know, what's their motivation, what they were on a pilot on something would they be willing to speak to other. I think your idea was maybe getting a couple of the forward forward leaning developers to if we if we've got a meeting where we brought a lot of land owners slash multifamily unit owners together. Could we have these for the developers speak to their sort of the business case that they found in terms of leaning forward and doing more than what's required. One idea that I think would potentially turn into could turn into a pilot project and or be a way that we also let people know about see piece. Was there somebody in particular that I should be is it's a conversation. I talked more about that Laura is there. Someone in particular that I should approach about how do we who I don't know who these people are, for example, I have not a single name right so. Yeah, don't see your hand is up. Yeah. Okay, I can introduce you to some of them on, you know, Dave Williams and, and, and Kyle, who are archipelago. I know both of them. Barry Roberts is obviously a big landowner here. Kurt Shumway, I know him. He owns a lot of rental properties. So, you know, I could facilitate you touching base with them particularly with with Dave and Kyle. I know them quite well. And I'm willing to help if if that's the direction you want to go, that's for sure. Stephanie and then Steve. Yeah, I just wanted to say that. And the idea was to specifically reach out to landowners who actually have embraced and are moving in the direction that this committee is advocating for. So installing EV charging, installing solar on their buildings and run the vertier is a developer who I know who has done that. So, and I could connect you with Ron. And that was Ron was actually the person I had in mind when I was thinking about someone who might be maybe willing to, you know, sort of be part of a discussion.  So not a whole lot of heavy influence of us, other than helping to make it happen, but them talking to each other. And Ron being able to sort of say this is what I've done. These are the programs I've used to help me do it. I know that Ron has used the ever source. To be ready program, Ron installed some EV charging through that program. Pretty sure, you know, he's taken advantage of other opportunities as well. So for solar. I think he, when we did solarize Ron was participated in that effort as well so those are the types of things I was thinking about. What was his last name. Ron Lavertier, I can, I can send it to you and make a connection if you'd like at a point when you're ready to sort of have a bigger discussion. Yes, Steve. This, this is great Lori, and I think for been, I've been hoping for quite a while that initiative to connect with the landowners and the building the property owners to get them talking and sharing notes and to introduce them to the incentive program and to show them some positive examples of how it has worked. It's going to be great, because that is I think about the rental efficiency the rental unit efficiency things you know we're not going to get very far if the property owners are unwilling to do retrofit or if they like some of us have discovered that there are no contractors or it's two years out before you get a contractor. This is great I think the specific thoughts there's the Northeast Energy Association up in Greenfield and they did I get that name right. Nessie Nessie yes, they do a lot with this sort of thing they they sponsor tours of retrofitted buildings. They work with a lot of contractors. So they may have a source for finding examples of deep energy retrofits in multifamily if not in Amherst certainly locally I know there's some in North Hampton them have been part of their sort of national tour where they open up some of these buildings and show other building owners how they were done. Nice. So Nessie could be a really great source as well. Nessie. Nessie. And so that's that's great. You and Don I think it'd be perfect for bringing these folks together and helping to explore how to go forward. As for number one I'll let you know if there's any need for public outreach around the red rental registration by law. I'll let you all know when that time comes. As for number two family outreach is working on that. We'll have to sort of look at the strategy for that I'm, I think, you know, again that we want that driven by the renters. So, there may not be as much of a role for ECAC in that but doesn't mean we can't support them so I think it just more to come on that. And Laurie I just I'm sorry while I'm talking and I just had an opportunity, you had asked about this community choice aggregation and mass save and what that even meant. So, working was working with them even mean I know what the CCA I know what the community source aggregation community choice aggregation is but I don't know how we would work with them to reach out. I think so there is a joint powers entity that's going to be developed and I think it's going to be less ECAC might be approached to support the work of that entity, which is the three communities that are involved that will be developed in the CCA so the joint powers entity is sort of like an umbrella organization, and the CCA will be part of that organization that will just be like one project that that entity is doing. The idea was to create some kind of a more, you know, programming and energy efficiency opportunities through the JPE, but the CCA would, you know, the consultant that we work with for the CCA could help basically with promoting the program, if that makes sense. So that's how I think that's where they were seeing that partnership. And then, if the joint powers entity exists which it will have to, in order to have the CCA. All of this could live as programming as part of that entity that you all could be asked to assist with basically getting the word out. Okay. Well, this is great. One last thing, can you get the slide to me please so I can include it in the packet. Yep, yep, I will do that I was also just going to put the seven questions in the, in the minutes, but I'll send you the slide. That'd be great. Thanks. I just threw it together a half hour before the meeting so I apologize. Okay, thoughts that have been I've been putting it together for for a few days but didn't congeal into a set of questions until T minus 20 minutes. No worries. Thanks. So Stephanie, can I ask a question about process so you know something that we do at series that's effective. Occasionally is, you know, bring companies together with, you know, companies that are lagging a little bit with a couple companies that are leading and have the leading companies talk to the lagging company. It sounds like this is a similar kind of idea not that anybody's leading or lagging but that we're sort of bringing these developers together or landowners together to like, have a frank conversation with each other. And we found that it's really hard to do that in a public way. So, but we're a public committee. And so, so is there like, how would we, is our role just sort of trying to make this happen and then not being involved in it actually happening because we needed we want it to be able. I think we want them to be able to speak to each other without having it need to be a public meeting with public comment and things of that nature right. Sure. I mean one of one of you, if one of you were like maybe a facilitator. You could, you could set it up so that one of you as a facilitator for that meeting and it's not, it wouldn't be a public meeting as long as you don't have a quorum of members show up.  Okay, great. And yeah, we could do like Chatham House rules or something where we take notes but we don't attribute them to anyone in particular so that we, as a committee if we want to see what was spoken about we can potentially do it that way. Well, if it's a meeting of other people with just one of us in attendance. We can just take notes. No, I mean what's wrong. That should be okay. Yeah, but if you're I think Laura's point is if you're sharing them with the group. You don't want to attribute to them to a person.  Okay, I'm new with this. That's not. It's not always always so. Yeah, Chatham House rules is also not our like normal term that normal people talk about. What was it, Chatham House, Chatham House. Yeah, I don't even know what it comes from does anybody know the history of Chatham House rules. Isn't Chatham House like someplace in Britain. Yeah, I think so. A world policy think tank. It may go way back to Quaker traditions. No, it's a it's a it's a policy think tank and less. Oh, all I know is that Chatham House rules means that you take notes, but you attribute them to individual people. Okay. Um, so Lori, do we have a clear do you feel like you have a clear next step, or should we talk quickly about that before we move on. I think I need to think about it. I've got a lot of information now that I didn't have before and I think I'll probably be contacting Don for more input and we'll probably come to the next meeting with some sort of a proposal to do something. Hope. Okay. Anyway, I looked up, I looked up Chatham House rules to my phone. It was developed by the Royal Institute of International Affairs, which was an independent organization. It is otherwise known as the Chatham House, which refers to the 18th century premises in the heart of London. Alright, had something to do with England. Okay, so I think what I've heard through this conversation is that for our meeting on the 13th to be our next meeting, we're going to start with a vote of the chair and vice chair. The other two items I think we've highlighted are, you know, revisiting this, this discussion Lori so engagement with land owner land owner slash developers. An update on there and then I think we should put on the agenda and update from Dwayne on the first meeting of the solar bylaw group and a discussion on the best way for how he would like you can to support him or what, you know, sort of how we how we do that. Anything else missing, and then I don't know if that's you. You could just give updates during you can't remember updates but if you have a specific item you want to bring in terms of educational outreach. You can always just email Stephanie or I before the meeting and we'll put it on the agenda. And put it to me well in advance of the meeting, because I have to post legally 48 hours ahead and also I need to get the packet up to the committee. Great. Um, any other agenda items off the top of folks had otherwise, like Stephanie said just send them over. Just another thank you to Laura for chairing. Oh yeah no worries this will be my last one. Well I trust you all to pick an amazing chair and again happy to talk to folks about about it and excited to have some new blood and energy in this role. Because I think that's always good to do. I just really nominated Laura for another term. revisit that at the beginning of next week. If I come back and you voted me back it out. Little bit disappointed. It's been very fun and I've learned so much and I've definitely the skills I've learned in doing this work have definitely benefited me in my other roles and responsibilities so I appreciate give begin being given the opportunity me in the first place. Um, okay just I guess real quick do we have any attendees no it looks like we don't know we don't. Great so no no public comment. Um, I think we can wrap unless anybody has one last thing. Okay. Thank you all. Why thank you. Thanks everybody.


In this presentation we will discuss the effects of litigation with regards to an audit engagement and the concept of independence. Commencement of litigation by management alleging deficiencies in audit work. First a word from our sponsor. Well actually these are just items that we picked from the YouTube shopping affiliate program but that's actually good for you because these aren't things that we're just given to us from some large corporation which we don't even use in exchange for us selling them to you. These are things that we actually researched, purchased and used ourselves. Acer 27 inch monitor. I've been using an Acer monitor as my primary monitor for a few years now. This is the first Acer monitor that I have used after having used a series of different brands of monitors in the past. The Acer monitor has been performing well and I'm trusting the Acer brand more and more as I use the monitor. I have a 27 inch monitor which I think is ideal for what I do which is of course the screen recording and the editing. If you would like a commercial free experience consider subscribing to our website at accountinginstruction.com or accountinginstruction.thinkific.com where we have many different courses. You can purchase one at a time or have a subscription model given you access to all the courses. Courses which are well organized have other resources like excel files and pdf files to download and no commercials. For the entity would generally impair independence so obviously if we're auditing a firm or we're going to be engaged to audit a firm and the firm is engaging in some litigation against the audit firm with regards to the work related to the audit that would impair independence. If we're going to go through the audit process in the future we have a problem here with regards to the pending litigation that would impair independence. Even a situation where there's expressed intent on the part of management to start litigation against the CPA firm even if management has not started any litigation if there's intent by management to start the litigation against the CPA firm that could be a problem. So expressed intent on the part of management to start litigation against the CPA firm alleging deficiencies in audit work could also impair independence if the auditor feels that it is probable that a claim will be filed. So if we're going to say okay they're kind of threatening to have a claim here if we feel that that's probable that they may file that claim again problem with independence with regards to going through an audit process because of this situation because of course if we think about a lawsuit if the lawsuit is going to go in place that can be thought of as a kind of threat or a kind of potential liability in the future so someone is obviously threatening to sue you or have litigation against you with regards to work that was done in the past with deficiencies of work that could result they're basically saying we're going to want some type of compensation that's what a litigation lawsuit basically does in the future and that if that would put pressure on the CPA firm possibly to have a favorable opinion in order for the litigation to go away and that wouldn't cause independence to be a problem. So if there's going to be a threatened litigation involved obviously we don't want the audit another audit to be in the middle of the of the threatening litigation you got to basically if that's going to be the case then the litigation needs to go through and the auditor would not want to be involved in an audit during that process because of course it would compromise independence and again you can just see just from a logical standpoint these rules kind of make sense because if you're an outside individual and you're looking at the independence of an of the audit even if the auditor did the best job they could have and they said hey you know you know they were threatening to sue us but we did the best job we could and we looked at everything we're very thorough and we give a favorable opinion if someone else looks at that they're going to say well you only gave a favorable opinion because they're threatening to sue you which would cost you a lot of money and and that would obviously be a problem with independence there's nothing the auditor can do about that appearance with with the diligence of their work all they can do is basically say you know independence is a problem therefore you know disengaged from that type of situation. Commitment of litigation by the CPA against the management alleging management fraud or deceit would generally impair independence so obviously if the CPA firm was going to engage in litigation against management with relation to fraud or deceit then you wouldn't want to be going forward with another audit in that process and that would that would be obvious even past the point of independence obviously it could be a violation of independence but if there's a situation where you suspect a lack of integrity in upper management within the organization that you're auditing then that's typically part of the planning process or the thinking about whether or not you want to continue with an engagement process to think about the integrity of management and if you think that there's lack of it then you wouldn't really want to proceed with the engagement in any case.