Here's a little warning. I might be opinionated today and we're going to talk about how to It's the warning sign in the flexibility mobility range of motion However, you want to talk about it call it. We've had a good question coming in So some I guess Or one of our audience members go in touch with this with a great question And we thought you know what rather than just have a little email Corresponders back and forth we'd share that question and get some opinions on the subject of staying mobile and Jack Oh is actually the reason and the prompts behind is now a very impressive range of motion mobility flexibility skills Maybe that's the same thing. I don't know but he was the he was the reason for the question Jack Oh, because you can touch your toes No, I was going to say the the mobility flexibility Ranger is a insert insert your while I was gonna insert any word But effectively what we're talking about is everyone's favorite Currently everyone's favorite word that's listening to the podcast bendy or half of Bendy Who knows me that Bendy before I like to be your Bendy as well There's one way you can get more Bendy there, Jack. Oh, let's just we're not going to push the podcast now But if you want to get more Bendy, tell them how they can get more Bendy Well not Bendy and all of those things of the the mobility the flexibility range motion Bendy They're like just in just the that you know that noise that people make when you're like, oh Like oh that just feels nice when I do that when I'm moving like that That would be anyone that is joined our six week mobility online course that myself and the legend Georgie who is she is the definition of Bendy She is well Bendy And a number of times we've got the next series of this is coming up There's obviously a limited time it starts on the 22nd of February six weeks At the same time every week you get to join those live sessions get coached by me and Georgie during those sessions There's tutorials of all the exercises we do and more that you get to keep Lifetime access to that library of exercises or exercise tutorials and you can watch those sessions back that we do on replay for as long as you want and as many times as you want so that is a Six-week mobility course starts in the 22nd of February The it's 125 quid lifetime access to all that content if you are a virtual classroom member There's a special code for you can't say it on the podcast that makes it just 99 quid for you And if you're a VIP member You will have an email about the discount code for that to get at you for just 75 quid if you're a VIP member so get signed up before it's delayed Well, I know Jack and I think I might have said this recently about the the other course we ran live the bottom-of-it-basics course Was the most important thing that you're gonna have or need around mobility is consistency Yeah, and accountability those two things going together are going to make the biggest difference So this is a great opportunity to do that to go and check it out and get some more information on that and Before we dive in I can feel I am brimming with excitement for this one. Jack. Oh, why why is that? Because I feel like I can be opinionated today I don't swear but if I do swear I listen to the podcast and people they get they when they get emotional They swear and it almost gets their point across more effectively, but I'm not gonna do that I'm going to articulate myself. I'm assuming the technician in charge of the soundboard if you do words of swear They would they would be able to edit in a beep I'll ask the producer I'm just looking at him now He says no It says it says no. He likes to keep the post edit as simple as possible Don't you producer? Yeah Should we get on? Yeah Sit back and enjoy us talking about mobility your mobility flexibility range of motion Control articulation rotations on the strength and play movement strength and play podcast I even forgot what we're talking about movement strength and play podcast. I've made about butchered that let's get into it roll back jingle Listen players You're listening to the movement strength and play podcast by the school of calisthenics here are your hosts Tim and Jackal So Tim boat, let me set the scene I'm sat down email pops up question from Wesley Heemans if I'm pronouncing that right and Saying starting with I've been listening to the podcast non-stop and learning a lot I was like Wesley tick you're in What do you need? 101 is into the algorithm and basically I won't read it outward for word mainly because I'm just not very good at reading but essentially he was impressed with my With my bendiness and the ability to touch my toes. I was like come on such a I could do more than that now But anyway, I know what you mean when you can't touch your toes and you see someone touch the toes It's impressive And He yeah, he was asking like where to get started and what do you do to gain? But then interestingly and I think most importantly for people How did he keep that range of motion or how do you keep that range of motion? flexibility bendiness In this case he's talking about touching toes in the hamster. It's one of his Goals that he's got for himself to improve the quality of the way that he moves at the moment So I said to him look I don't want to answer this on email be far more exciting and far more valuable to more than just us two is to let's get Timbo involved in this conversation. Let's answer it on the podcast and before I My personal views on answering this question have changed dramatically probably over the last let's say five years But then even more so over the last 18 months by I'm interested to get the opinionated version of Of the of Tim Stevenson This question basically we're back to being I'm back to being question. There you go There's the question. Well, no, but his question was given to you and you've deferred to me I think you've probably got more. I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna come back. Do you watch them? Do you watch? Would I lie to you? No, I need to anyway Rob Bradins that Rob Bradins the host and so when he's hosted after do do But every now and again you like yes the questions every now and again He chucks a little bit of bounce in there because he's got plenty Right, I don't know where to start on this one I'm gonna just gonna start and I'm gonna try to keep brief because I think you've probably got more Add on this one than I have The first thing is let's just talk about the global subject of What we're talking about mobility flexibility And then a little bit of a bug bear of mine because I think it's got over complicated and as more people I'm a bit of I've been in this industry for a while right when I first started There wasn't a lot of people talking about About this this subject in as much detail and depth as we are now Yeah, so lots of people have come in to solve the problem of lots of people not being able to move very well And that was originally addressed probably largely in the Pilates yoga sort of space was kind of the first bit where? movement and improving your ability to move Started with a real that was the purpose should we say yeah, whereas like it if mobility So when I did my Australian conditioning qualifications the three range of motion Flexibility options that were presented to me were static stretching active stretching which included proprio sensitive new muscle facilitation Just a newer kind of way of getting some additional range of motion a different technique and dynamic flexibility We've now kind of got a little bit twitchy about the term flexibility And we now call it mobility which would typically where people would normally sort of differentiate it and buy and buy Saying that mobility is range of moment movement through muscle strength with control As I understand it whereas flexibility often got labeled a little bit like static stretching For me it's the same thing What we're effectively talking about is being able to move a joint through a complete or optimal range of motion So sitting on the floor stretching hamstrings Like that if we define that as flexibility and that doesn't translate into a functional pattern that's of any real use Then it's not particularly useful So this idea of moving I Think has got a little bit as we've gone from the micro of you got to static stretch hamstrings to moving in different ways which we now label mobility to try and separate and differentiate it in a way and This we've got now Pilates yoga mobility flexibility For FRC we've got all these kind of different schools But essentially this is my last point Jackie before I pass over It's all the same stuff like it is just Movement and there are certain ways which physiotherapists and Different practitioners will use to like different techniques So we might have this proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation where we're starting to use kind of agonist antagonist Contractions to get a neural response range of motion. We might have some controlled articulate rotations We might have da da da da da like put all this sort of end range isometrics. It's all good stuff But if and I'm in danger simplifying it and this might aggravate a few people But if we just move more through more patterns Like we don't need anything fancy than that like it's literally just movement And I understand if you are in a place where you don't move well getting to a place where you can move well having some different like tools might add a little bit of Icing on the cake shall we say yeah, but I'm pretty sure for most people if we just did a little bit more moving into the Kind of patterns that we want to move into and to negate all the years that we didn't move into those patterns when we should have been Then that's going to take massive steps forward and and kind of people might be an eye till you massively over simplified it If you do nothing else, that's the priority like you know We talk about put a big rocks in first like recovery do that What's your big what's your best recovery strategy sleep? What's your best strategy for moving more move more? Do you know I mean like yeah, and then when you go right? Okay? And now you're moving more in more different ways and different patterns through the available range of motion that you have How do we then go and potentially go and optimize that okay? We might be use these certain techniques and that's going to help us to kind of optimize it But unless we are putting more complete movement patterns in and being intention about moving in more ways The rest of it is kind of like It's not going to get the biggest bang for your buck Yeah, no no no definitely because I think that there's there's two things I want to like pick up on and also want to go like Wide on it because actually going wider on it and not getting too Go down into the nitty-gritty which we can give you an example Well, you know for Wesley will give it will give it will finish with the example of like hamstrings What what what's going on there, but staying wide with it that the Ultimately Whether you talk you gave the example of like flexibility and mobility and then some people what some people might sort of Get the knickers in a twist a little bit about like are but that like flexibility is passive and Mobility means like active well But I could like do I could do us a passive stretch and say that I'm mobilizing my Carp or hamstring whatever and say that's a I'm doing I'm doing a passive mobilization Like they're just words and like you say that they ultimately were talking about being able to control the body and move through move through range and Good example of that is a pancake a passive or active range of motion exercise No, it's totally right and what I'm there's two elements from on to pick up on and They're all like based around like staying initially. Let's stay wide We'll finish we'll come back round and finish for Wesley answer is specific question of like a little bit of nitty-gritty for The hamstring but but starting to just appreciate and understand just my wide perspective What what is it that we're talking about and whether some of these things are just words like flexibility or mobility? Passive active their words and they mean certain things, but I could do I could say I'm doing Passive mobility drill or I could be doing active flexibility and then then those two things start to like merge into oh actually that are that so I Want to argue less about for people about whether Which words you like to use to describe things you're doing but just to understand on a wider scale What's actually going on because that's been the biggest thing that's helped me? Understand what my body then needs to I then need to do for my body and and to To frame this I currently am the most bendy Flexible or mobile or whatever it is that you want to describe it. I've ever been I'm currently the oldest I've ever been as well Timbo, which sometimes for people being older is not is not a lot helpful for being flexible and But I do the I did the least amount of Mobility flexibility training that I've ever done and it's more or less woven into like just just what I do so And and yeah, I'm by no means I still can't do like a lovely pancake or anything So I've still got a long way to go But as Wesley says I can touch me terms and a little bit more But so a couple of things that's a one major thing to cool things that you are saying a more major thing that's changed For me in my understanding of it and then application of what I'm doing is the neurology side of it Which we first got introduced when we went to Cracky long in the good old days before the pandemic and when we went to the National Circus and The idea is named for the week. I forgot it last week. This is generally because you coached James. Yeah second name And I know his second name now it's coming up. It's muck something. It's like a Mukbrave heart and Speaking of good Scottish things it's all my Scottish brothers and sisters out there We've had haggis last two days in preparation for Barron's night and got some whiskey at anyway the neurology side of things the brain Essentially like the brain deciding like is this position safe for me? Is this position nice for me and he's gonna govern and control what you're doing?  So? Brian McKenzie from shift adapters sort of like big on this I was talking to a physio literally last week about this idea of We can use think so if I go into a position I'm trying to do a mobilization or a stretch or whatever how I'm Breathing during that position Wolf send some signals to my nervous system about whether is this like a stressful event or can I relax into this event? Just because like how we our inhales and our excels can influence our sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system So there are some things that are going to govern What you're doing that will basically give you a chance for the brain to go okay? This actually this is a position I'll let you be in and have and then you start to go the what you were saying around Moving in lots of different ways in lots of different positions the more Shapes and positions and things you go into the more you're teaching your brain that like this is okay to go over here But also the flip side of it You'll find you'll go when I go over there feels a bit weird compared to when I go on this side And you might go to a position and feel like oh Actually, that would feel very good And then you'll start to understand where the corners and whereas some of your restrictions going in and I think that the real Key then starts to come in when you if you're going to try to move like outside of your current comfort zone You've got to find we've got to find a way that allows my brain To believe that that is a safe place to go to and if it's that I'm weak in that position I've got to find out how to strengthen it and If it's that I'm like full it if there's like just like a block in there or it's painful We need to then start to understand like what's causing that so is it that something is weak Is it that some things under as if have I got a disruption to some of the length tension relationships that so surrounding? Surrounding that joint and if I can then find What the issue is and then most likely either by strengthening strength of the area that was weak or by Partly probably strengthening but also maybe loosening off some of the tissues to try to Balance off those lengths tension relationships and restore a little bit of normality and balance around those joints It's like oh I go into that and it feels great straight after you know when we I when we've done anything Neurology based you know with with Z health of our dr. Cobb come on here before and we've done some of their foundational courses The the the really interesting thing with the brain is when it if you do something that it likes The reaction you get from it is pretty much instant and I this like literally as yesterday or day before Did something on like my right? Periformis and then went into a squat and it was like wow I can go way further than I would have normally done and it was like because that was the right thing I needed right then and my hamstring release well anyway, but um That's not that and that just the one thing I don't want to do is to like Caveat or to just give people the because that almost gives us the idea that like oh There's there is a magic bullet and we've said before like there are no magic bullets but there is a Process of if you understand about trying to how the brain is governing what you're going to do and then Find out what the issue is in terms of strength and length tension relationships And anything else that goes into that like movement of whatever particular joint it is Then you're then you're on to a then you're on to a good thing and I think that when you find And this is what we talk about in the six week course with with Georgia we go We showcase a whole load of stuff before we do anything any exercise or anything We always testing and retesting so that if we show you like five things for your hamstring You've tested and retested for every one So you know the two or the one that worked best for you and you just do that one that works best for you Not any of the other ones and then you start to your warm-ups and your your routine start to become or you don't have to do a Separate mobility training because you go well I've got one thing for my hamstring that I know really works for me I've got this other thing from a shoulder and this other thing from a spine So I've got three things that I need to do and I always do them in more warm-up And it's like when I do those but what it feels great Like I've got a very simple Diaphragm like breathing reset that we do in the at the beginning of the at the beginning of the course And it's well that Dana Santos teachers as well and they teach it as you have performance Just because the diaphragm plays a role in hip flexors and stabilizing spine etc. So it can influence other things and When I do that I do do I do three reps It takes like 20 seconds at the beginning of any session our body feels better afterwards It's like one of my three things that I do and it's like it's it's nothing it takes no time at all And when you start to be able to be pinpoint with that You know, you won't have 10 different exercises. You always have to try to do to stay loose and mobile So I've just gone for a bit of over about there But essentially make the brain happy find out what the issue is and it's most likely Something somewhere is weak and that's why the brains not happy What do you think of that? I like it and I think the one thing you said about that was a really good point around There's no magic bullet. There is it's principles Principles that's the magic bullet because then you can use whatever methods you want There's that Ralph Ward or Emerson cropped which I use quote all the time because we are we are living in a world or an age of methods There are a million methods But if you understand the principles of what you're trying to do then you can choose your own methods to suit your own situation So understanding that Jack is dead right because if you go back and look at some of the static stretching research And I haven't done this for a couple of years, but it's not interesting But if you want to go and read some of it, we actually don't know what we're stretching So if you go look at a six-week passive hamstring stretching Intervention the results of that will probably say static stretching is ineffective for lengthening the hamstrings over six weeks So if you if you look at the mechanisms is it is it kept it changed the motion that we do see People like is it capsular is it fascia? Is it muscular? Is it neural? Is it da da da da? It could be all these different things which are contributing to a change in length of range motion What like the crux of that and this is where research falls apart is that you go well If it's a hamstring lengthening exercise it didn't work or something lengthening intervention which didn't work because we did static stretching Well, what most of time because we have to control variables and research People will stretch the hamstring gone up change emotion. Oh, that's pretty good. That improves off you go see you next week come back Oh, it's the same Well, why because we've done nothing else and your brain is now warts out gone crikey I feel a bit wobbly in here because I don't have this tension So we often talk about the continuum of stability or mobility stability and strength Well mobility requires stability and strength to get mobile so then they're not three independent things So if we want to get range of motion, yes, we need to move different ways and there's different ways that we can do it But we have to be stable in those ranges of motion that we're trying to achieve Otherwise a brain worth sense threat and it will wind that mobility back And we need to be strong in that range of motion So the brain again has confidence to move in and out of these shapes And one thing that I think before we go too far down that rabbit hole because it's probably this conversation for another time But if you if your training practices are based based around the same movement patterns consistently I'm going to use an example color sense can be an example crossfit can be an example Olympic weightlifting as a part of crossfit, but whatever it might be Most sports even rugby and hockey and team sports will have consistent movement patterns If we don't spend time moving outside of those movement patterns and finding the areas where we are restricted and can't move That will have a knock-on effect or detrimental effects on the system's ability to move So a great example might be Someone's like in hip internal range of motion, right hips can often get jacked up You can probably do your thing not knowing that you've only got five degrees of hip internal rotation When ideally we probably want you to have more like 45 degrees But by if you start to do mobility work in the way that jacko and george you present here Then you'll go through some movements. You've like, you know, well, that's flipping horrible Like I cannot I cannot sit in a squat and get my knee to the ground Which is a real simple kind of active internal rotation movement Well, that exposes a weak link in your kinetic chain That's a problem because it will affect the mechanics of how you move and it is potentially a source of of injury Let's say it could be the cause of Some faulty movement patterns or suboptimal movement patterns, which could then result in injury might not be the adductors or anything It could be something different Yeah, but it could be the ankle but because you don't move well through that pattern Humans move best when we have access to more movement options So if you are if you are typically finding yourself in sagittal playing movements, which a lot of sports playing and a lot of like functional fitness movements happening now You need to start thinking about other patterns rotation and and Side-to-side lateral type movements moving through transverse and frontal planes Getting into awkward positions. That is like there's absolute gold in there And it's the biggest thing that people forget to do and when when they and My last point jacket before I pass it over for you to wrap it up People complain about not being able to move well like oh, no, we're not very flexible How much time do you dedicate to it to actually sort of making changes you you can maintain your mobility now Because to be fair you went through quite a dedicated block of really working on it So you did that work and now it's easy to maintain it. Had you not done that work You would still not be able to touch toes Right, you've got you've got to kind of if you're only going to get strong You've got to do a strength block Yeah, and then once you once you are strong or once you've got size Typically, it's easier to maintain it because you've done that work What's happening at the moment is people have adopted poor quality movement patterns because they've not moved enough And what they're doing is maintaining really poor movement patterns because they're not changing them They're not being intentional about them. So I think that's just A little bit of an encouragement to if this all sounds quite mystical. It's really like this simplicity If it's not but we want to talk principles and not methods. Yeah, no You know, I want to that my my sort of final thing on this and and takeaways from it Is to keep it simple and On that notion of keep it, you know, you talked about And Wesley's question, you know the interesting part of Wesley's question at the beginning of this podcast was like How do you keep it? Because as you said like on a hamstring if you just try to touch your toes for 30 seconds or two minutes every day You'll notice that when you sit in a position and try to relax into it like Whatever it is that's whether fascia muscle the whatever the thing is that's changing You will feel a change in the range of motion. That is like fine and you know, you gave an example of like they might do something with someone hamstring and It will improve during that test and then they send them home And then they come back the next day and they they're back to square one again And that that how do I how do we keep it? Um And we talked about well, you said like, you know, bodies feels a bit bendy like how do How do I how do I stabilize? How do I stabilize this? This doesn't feel right? I've not I've not I've not earned the right to be here So, um, I'll just tighten tighten things back up to where we were before and I'm I'm used to where we were before So let's just go back to that. I've got that I've got that programmed in the system Let's go back to that If you want to go to if you want to have like a new blueprint and a new program You got to do something to show the brain that like Why do you want to be there and let it be stronger? So give it a reason to go there one in tension and then two We need to have some strength there and the strength part of it Like just like any strength work progressive overload So don't go in too hard to suck if you go in with something too heavy The brain's going to like push back against that don't like that So and the and the loads because we're talking about in trying to increase a range of motion We're going to need to be in sure that we go to the end of that range And when you go to the end of that range your muscles are most lengthened. They can't contract so well So you don't need a lot of load Like it might not actually be an additional load of like a weight It might just be like that your arms fully out there and reaching and that and the weight of your arm is enough So But what that's going to give you is you build some strength in that new position You start to tell the brain this is a position We're going to go to give it a reason to do that. I'm doing it for this thing And then you're more likely to go away from that session The brain be happier with that position and range that you've gone to so that when you come back next time Rather than starting all again, you're starting from a better place And then gradually gradually gradually that becomes easy to do and and that's probably I say this at workshops when we've We've got some workshops coming up in fact in in in February and March So check those out one in Staffordshire and one in In London check them out on the website But say this at workshops like when we're doing like the movement preparation part of the warm-ups and everyone we do You know because we'll use we might you do some Self self massage or self myofascial release things and people notice and then we do we do a retest It's like that's better and then we do some mobilizations and the retest and it's that way and it's like great But if you come back in six months time every time you're coming back You're at the same starting point. You have to do restart all over again. You you create some nice range, but you're not Solidifying it and keeping it as well as that's not keeping it then you're missing a strength link in there And when you start to think about it, how do I how do I how do I ensure that I've got that strength link? well If your training involves you going back to keeping it simple and what you said to him around just moving in lots of demands If your training session itself not you warm up not your mobility sessions if your training sessions themselves Incorporate moving In those positions and requiring you to be strong in those positions that you're trying to work on Then it's just comes part of your training and that's that's where I think that that the goal is for people To and that allows you to like it's not extra. It's it's part of your training. It's part of how you move Yeah, agreed. I think the challenge for people in that is that you've got to start thinking about moving different ways So if your go-to has normally been sort of like heavy back squats, for example, you're talking lower body Well, like when did you last do some like goblet squat cossack lateral lunge type work? Like with with a 10 kilo weight because that'll help you getting out of those lateral Range that'll do some work for your inductors if you deduct the tie Um, but we get we have these I think people become you know, you can talk like growth mindset We we probably consider most of us to be quite growth mindset orientated But people can be extremely fixed around exercise selection because we we we start to adopt this belief that we've got to move in a certain way or do a certain things to maintain strength size and all that sort of stuff, but the biggest thing is like We're missing the one thing or one of the things I say strength is important when you get older But as your life changes, it's about movement Plain and simple it is about movement and you're if you continue to do it If you're not moving well enough now and you're not happy with your range of motion or mobility I can guarantee that's going to get worse as you get older unless you do something about it promise you that I'll put a mortgage on that if you do nothing different to what you're doing now you'll move worse than you do in in next 20 years time So there's an opportunity to do something different about it Don't get complicated in what type of stretching you're going to do start by just moving more training in different ways Think about getting stable and strong through those range of motion And do it consistently. I can't stress that enough like you have got to do it regularly And that's where the goal is Yep, suddenly is thank you Tim. I enjoyed that one. I was good. I hope wasn't too offensive No, it's a bit I don't think it was anywhere offensive. You didn't swear, you know, what you just I think sometimes people are expecting more from me, but I don't like to like don't I don't get aggressive about it I want to swear and I've got a real thing at the moment where I'm seeing stuff on social Which is just driving me up the wall because people like properly, you know, there's a tension economy that we live in People are properly cherry picking stuff and but they say they say something to make this sound so well clever like taking one line of a research paper and then actually sort of like Confusing people to the point where you go, you know what? I don't think I know anything This person knows way more than I do and then you go actually I've started now when people do that to me on social I go and read the research paper so I can actually and I go, okay Yeah, just be picked one line out and that's not actually what it said But you are now you've chosen the juiciest moment from that that whole 10 page article to get people to To kind of engage but it doesn't make us feel better about ourselves because now if you don't know anything So in mobility, it's really like complicated move more. I got to be a timbo You unfollow those bad boys. You don't need them in your life I don't I do I don't follow the people that annoy me these days, which is probably creating my neck a chamber But anyway, let's not do that I enjoyed that that was good. I hope there's some good things in there for people send us some questions if you've got any Um, and if you also think jack o's transformational mobility journey has been inspirational That well, maybe he could put together a youtube video and get us about 10 million hits because everyone loves a good Transfer machine you got you got archive of videos You know, funny enough. I didn't take any videos of myself when I couldn't move very well We should have done well to be fair. We've probably actually I have got this is this is You know your iphone every now and again anyone anyone that's um Bothered to stay to the end of the podcast. It's one of these times where you're in for a little bit of a treat. Um Uh, I don't know if I dare actually get them out for the uh that could go on youtube, couldn't they? I don't know. I'll mention.   So it's not that different. Yeah We could we talk a good game now, but we're still actually a bit crap Um, right. We'll finish on that mild swear word as the end of our end of our conversation today So, um, you can go to itunes. Are you a favorite listening listening platform and you can Your itunes just butterflies People That's just becoming a thing now Uh, it's not I won't refresh that. Um, yeah, so gong is a five star review because we like five stars and we think we deserve it it would be honest, um, that's And, um, send us some questions if you want your question answered in a similar format to how we've done today at length If you want them more specific Then I just say can you just please reply on email? If you want to even shorten the email Instagram you're gonna get you know, that's like because the character limit and all that sort of stuff Um, but we like answering questions because they uh, they give us good topic for conversation and Probably beneficial to the people so do all those things and then come back and listen next week My email is david at schoolcasts.com tim is tim at schoolcasts.com We look forward to hearing from you Other than that timbo keep exploring your physical potential through movement strength and play Just gonna last note before we go email response rates may vary Class dismissed


Welcome to Hawai'i is my mainland. I'm Kaui Lucas. It must be Friday at 3 p.m. Hawai'ian Standard Time. Today for an energetic debrief is the very dynamic director of Hawai'i's Sierra Club, Marty Townsend. And the Sierra Club of Hawai'i worked really hard to raise awareness around a meeting that happened last night. It was great at Moanalua Middle School. And did you go to Moanalua Middle School? I went to Moanalua High School. High School, I am to be it. Okay.  Thanks. Gold, mighty many. And it turns out that's actually a really great place to have a meeting. Who would have thought? Yeah. And this is the second one. What I, the first one that that was just a Sierra Club meeting about a month ago. So, so there's been a series of meetings. So there was a, you know, 27,000 gallon leak of fuel in January 2014. Since then there have been a series of public meetings with the Navy Environmental Protection Agency and Department of Health as well as the Board of Water Supply and the Sierra Club. So, let's see, there were meetings in June of 2015 and then in October that were both hosted by the Navy with the EPA and Department of Health. In June of 2016, the Board of Water Supply hosted a meeting. And in August of 2015, 2016 on the Sierra Club hosted a meeting. And all of these were geared towards trying to get more understanding about the agreement that was reached between the Navy, the EPA and the Department of Health for addressing the jet fuel storage facility at Red Hill. This facility is ginormous. It's holding, there are 15 tanks out of 20 are in operation, each holding 12.5 million gallons of fuel. 100 feet above our drinking water aquifer. And while currently our drinking water is not contaminated, the concern is that the history of leaks at this facility are just a warning sign, a signal that we could seriously jeopardize the quality of our water if anything significant and serious happened. So last night we had a meeting that was supposed to be the one-year anniversary check-in of with the Navy, EPA and Department of Health. And yeah, it was a very good turnout. I think people were probably not fully satisfied with the answers to their questions. But I, you know, we as a whole are heartened to see that people are engaged and concerned about this issue. I mean that is a prerequisite to ensuring that our water is protected. We are grateful to have someone like Ernest Lau at the Board of Water Supply to provide, he was wonderful, provide information and context and perspective and expertise in this area. We were grateful to the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Health. They actually rejected the Navy's current proposal for their their work plan for Red Hill because it's just basically inadequate. And I think that has helped to build some public confidence that we're going to ultimately end up with a plan that protects Red Hill, hopefully, or protects our water supply. But the concern is that it's just taking way too long. I mean here we are where the spill, the last spill happened in 2014. Here we are in October 2016 and we're still talking about scoping at this point. Like we have had very little action if any. They've installed a few new monitoring wells which is great, but there's been no cleanup. They haven't made any effort to identify where the fuel is that spilled. And they don't have any plans for figuring how to clean it up and that's just not acceptable. There is, it used to be a EPA super fund up there that they supposedly handled back in the 80s I guess. But I want to, I loved the analogy that Ernie did on how much fuel this really is. He talked about Aloha Stadium. If you go goal line to goal line, sideline to sideline, that one million gallons is three feet deep and that so that whole facility would be that football field more than 500 feet tall, which is more than the first wine bank building downtown. So that's the fuel sitting above the ground water. Right. I thought that was fabulous because it's just, it's so huge. It's kind of hard to take in. You know, like what is this? Yeah. Yeah. And the concern really is that we don't see the urgency needed to ensure that we aren't on the cusp of a major catastrophe.   These tanks were installed in 1940s. This is 1940 steel that has been corroding. It has no protection against corrosion. There is no tank with inside of a tank construction, which is what is standard now. And as, you know, one of the speakers representative, Stephen pointed out, if proposed today, these tanks would not be allowed to be built. You can't, you would not be able to do what they did to our Red Hill today. And the fact that they are trying to get this facility to continue indefinitely may not be a reasonable expectation. There were a lot of, in addition to Representative Thelans and Senator Thelans, there were a lot, there were a lot of public officials there. Can you want to do a little? So, it's both Representative Thelans and Senator Laura Thelans. There was also Council Members, Council Member Fukunaga, Council Member Brian Elefante. You had Senators, like Senator Wakai was there, Senator Nishihara, Senator Harimoto. Yeah. And you had representatives there, Representative Ishiama, Representative Erin Johansson. So, the area elected officials as well as elected officials, not from the area, I mean, Gil Riviere was there too. They recognized the importance of this issue. And I really appreciated that a majority of them stayed till the end, like they sat there and listened to all the information that was given. They heard the questions, they were taking notes, they participated in the process and asked their own questions. I think that really demonstrates a commitment to this issue that you don't see in other situations and it was really heartening. And you said that you got, or that also Tulsi Gabbard has expressed her, she wasn't at the meeting, but... Actually, she did come to the meeting for a short period, but we, you know, she tried to, you know, see there's opportunity to ask her own questions, but they had already taken away the sign and it was late in the evening. But she did come in and, you know, look at all the materials and, you know, talk to some of the community leaders who are concerned about this issue. So, yeah, and Representative Gabbard has been an early advocate for, you know, the precautionary principle and taking the most protective approaches to the management of this Red Hill, the Yule facility. So we really appreciate her leadership on this issue. So it felt like there was a really healthy mix of elected officials and area representatives. I'm just taking this kind of from the questions who ask questions. And then, you know, sort of the core activists, environmentalist groups, which are always so wonderful and keep people honest around here or do their best. Yeah. So the issues around the things that don't work, that was section six and seven that they got into, they got into that a little bit. But it was interesting to me that they took, they being the US Navy, took a lot of time to explain what went wrong for that one incident in 2014 that you talked about the tank number five, the infamous tank number five, which had just been fixed and then leaked. And they totally blame it on the contractor that the contractor did poor welding and, you know, the only responsibility of the Navy seems willing to accept is that they didn't look over that contractor's shoulder enough.  Like you gave the contractor this job to keep the 70 year old tank from leaking. And maybe that's not possible.  We looked again, there's 15 holes. Okay, now we're finding like 70 anomalies. Like, you know, it came out that there was actually quite a bit wrong with that tank. And there are you know, five other tanks, maybe more that haven't been recently inspected. And I mean, that's the problem is that these small chronic leaks are hard to detect. And we don't you know, the thing and once you detect them, that means they're already in the environment. So it's too late. Like what we really want is a leak proof system. And that's like the basic minimum expectation. So you asked about the the double lining the tanks and you didn't get too, too, too much of a straight answer on that one. Yeah, so if you were to install an underground storage tank for fuel today, the requirement is what's called tank in a tank construction double walling. And the intent behind that is to prevent the fuel being stored from getting out of the environment, which, you know, serves both interests, right. And but these tanks built in the 1940s, built in the field, like field constructed.  Yeah, blasted, which means that the rock under the basalt underneath it has as fractured, right? Then they poured concrete in. And then they welded little squares of steel all the way around the inside of it. And surprise, surprise 70 years later, the steel is starting to give corrosion over time. It's irreversible, you can't and you can't stop it. And and that's the situation that that we're confronting. And so yeah, I think it's just we want to make sure that double wall construction is is fully analyzed at this point at this stage in the process, they have not fully analyzed the option of double wall construction. And they haven't analyzed the option of relocating the fuel storage facility to some other place. And they need to look at both of those alternatives to be able to really make an informed decision. The other interesting thing that we learned from last night's meeting was that, according to the Navy, money is no object. It doesn't matter how much it costs, they are going to make it happen. And I think we should hold them to that. I don't want to hear that this is too expensive is the reason why they aren't going to ensure that these tanks don't leak. Where the one place I did hear the money come into play was when and we'll do a video video that later they were asked about. Oh, Gary Gil said, Well, what if you don't use all the tanks? You know, and then they gave that we'll show that clip later. But they said that they're about they're about to spend $35 million on refurbishing the five tanks, the five tanks that haven't been refurbished in a while. They didn't mention that some of them hadn't ever hadn't ever been in 73 years. So anyway, you know, let's just take a little break right now. And then we'll come back and watch that video and talk some more. Hi, I'm Stacy Hayashi, and you can catch me on Mondays at 11 on Think Tech Hawaii. Stacy to the rescue. See you then. Aloha, everybody. My name is Mark Shklav. I'd like you to join me for my program, Law Across the Sea on ThinkTechHawaii.com. Aloha. Aloha, I'm Kirsten Baumgart, Turner, host of Sustainable Hawaii. Thanks for watching Think Tech this summer. We have a lot of terrific shows of great importance. And I hope you'll watch my show too every Tuesday at noon as we address sustainability issues for Hawaii. They're really pertinent as the World Conservation Congress approaches in September and the World Youth Congress that's focusing on sustainability next year as well. Have a great summer and tune in at noon every Tuesday. Welcome back to Hawaii is my name. I'm Kami Lucas, and with me today is Marty Downsend of Hawaii Sierra Club. And last night we were at the Moanalua Middle School where there was a meeting on the Red Hill fuel tanks. And to give you a taste of what that meeting was like, we have a clip from the question and answer session that happened after the presentation. I think people are here concerned about the risk. Even if we hear that the water it's safe to be able to walk tomorrow, or about this kind of struggle. The only way to reduce that risk to zero is to do away with the Red Hill. Well, so we have a question about the question. Short of reducing that risk to zero, the game here really is how do you reduce it to as much as is feasible or practical? We could cut the risk in half. If we were to reduce the number of tanks currently holding fuel in half. Currently, there are 20 tanks. If I'm wrong, I believe there are 15 that are filled. Going by your own analysis, what I heard that five of those 15 have actually been upgraded. That means 10 tanks are filled now that have not been upgraded. So that's a big risk. Question to reduce the risk, can the Navy reduce the number of tanks that are currently filled with gas? Second time into that timing is timing. One thing people are concerned about is it takes 20 years to get to this end of the AOC system. What about 10 years? If we reduce the number of tanks in service by half, we can cut 20 years to 10. That would be a suggestion like you do. Consider an as to trust. Can we trust the results of all the contractors and oversight transparency is important? Can we as we take these samples from the monitoring wells, take a split sample, have the Navy tested, have the EPA and the DOH testing and let the board of water supply test. Okay, so we've got a triple head over there. So I'm going to take at least one and a half needs to know which is the other one. So the question was simple math. You have cut the capacity of half, you cut the risk of half assuming that the risk to failure ratio is clear failure path.  You can do that. It makes sense logically. But the question is, and I talked about this earlier, there is a reason why Red Hill is here, why we have the amount of stuff in there. It is not an arbitrary amount of petroleum. I can't talk to specific because that is classified. But what I can't say is, we do not arbitrarily have fuel in the mountain. I will tell you this, we are certainly not hoarding fuel in the mountain, just to have it there. So yes, we could cut the risk in half. If we cut half of the capacity out mathematically, but the question is, but the concern is, we have to determine from a bigger perspective what we need to have here for Red Hill to exist. Because at some point, the reason for existing and the risk mitigation will counteract each other. So that's why I talked about this earlier. Part of the process here, and this is above, I mean, this is above us here from the native perspective is the wide Red Hill and how much it takes to do that. Okay, so I don't want to confuse anyone here on this. So that there is a reason for it. And we have the amount of fuel in the mountain based on the reasons that I laid out. So we were just to arbitrarily cut that at half. The question would be, would Red Hill still serve the purpose that it's intended to do because it's here? So I wanted to add a little bit to that and give a little more perspective. We're studying the raise proposed by Red Hill. I'm not sure if reducing the number of tanks in half would reduce risk in half. I think the answer is probably not. So as you can see, it was it was a lively bunch in an animated discourse. So at some point, there is a point of diminishing returns for the Navy. But we didn't they were very cagey about what that point was. I'll tell you the point of diminishing return for me as a water drinker is when they leak when the tanks leak again. What we've learned from the Navy's publishing of reports, the historic leak information that since the tanks were built, there have been 40 leaks. And as far as we can tell, none of it has been cleaned up. It's not so much that the 40 leaks are a sign that our waters contaminated, but more that this is a chronic long standing problem, which they did not. They they contradicted. I mean, that they tried to they tried to be transparent and talked much to that subject. But and I was good that they are opening themselves to this process. But the guy said at a one event, I said, there's been two events. And then when I asked him about it, and they said two, and the other one was only six gallons. Yeah, since 1988. But, you know, the entire history of the facility. And this is only reported leaks. You know, there's other evidence like that circumstantial evidence that indicates there could have been other leaks in which we see spikes in monitoring data, for example. So of course, the course samples that show that there have been leaks from every all of the 20 tanks. So I think it's just it's bad public policy to store your fuel 100 feet above your drinking water. And it's in the Nate as much as Navy's interest to ensure that they don't lose fuel, as it is in you know, humanity's interest to ensure that we don't lose water. And if the Navy really considers this place to be strategic and plans to use it into, you know, indefinitely into the future because of the Pacific pivot, then they need to invest in it and make it top notch, you know, 21st century technology. And if they can't afford that, then they need to retire these tanks and store the fuel elsewhere. I just just common sense is you don't you don't do this. And I think it's very gracious of you to give them and out on this. But I actually I think it's unconscionable and that there's there's no there's no reason for this. And I think the rejection letter that the Navy got just further demonstrates that the Navy's approach to Red Hill is is insufficient. And, you know, the unified position that you see coming from regulators, from the community, and from elected officials is that the status quo at Red Hill is not acceptable. You have to fundamentally change what's happening there in order to proceed. And the first thing first on my list is to clean up the spill that's already out there. And then from there, they really need to get very good at understanding the soil around the tanks. They also need to be able to understand the flow of water. We don't know exactly where the water goes underground. And there's no way you can model, you know, what you don't know. Yeah, you can't model what you don't know. The likelihood of contamination is unknown. And the EPA rejection letter basically said that the the Navy's relying on assumptions and speculation to, you know, assess the risk of the jet fuel being stored here. And we need some far more definite than assumptions and speculation. They were pretty good at playing to the audience. In some regards, I thought there was amusing, somebody asked, you know, how many days of fuel would it would that fuel storage facility provide Oahu in the case of a disaster? And I thought, Oh, that's such a sweet question as if they would. Yeah, it's jet fuel. It's not like we're driving our cars with it. It's not going to serve the residents of Oahu. But they didn't mention that. No, they've not mentioned that. Yeah, they told me, Well, you and I could sit down for an hour and we could figure that out. Theoretically. Yeah. Okay. I did hear one positive thing in a private conversation. Man from the Defense Logistics Agency said, I said, I specifically asked about the alternatives they had in the they in this information corral. So when you walked into the cafeteria, there was a large open space and around the space were these poster poster boards. And it was a very interesting way of organizing a meeting. And one of the poster boards was on alternative sites. And so I asked him so so what and that poster board had all these things like it had to be off the grid, gravity fed, and all this stuff. And I said, Well, who made that list? And he said, Well, those are just things that the present facility has that we like, sort of the the the capacity, the fact that they don't have to use energy to access the fuel because it's gravity fed, it can just come down. I said, Yeah, but you got to pump it up there. That takes energy. Detail, detail. Anyway, but I did like the idea that they were talking off the grid. Anyway, so there were all these, these amusing anecdotes. But what he said that was very interesting was that that Board of Water Supply, EPA, Department of Health, other stakeholders are the ones who are invited to make the list of their wish list on alternative sites. And that is one of the steps that step number eight. So we have six and seven have been rejected. But that is in step number eight. And I said, Well, do we have to wait till six and seven have been hashed out? And he said, No, that they're all they're going forward on all of them. So that is a really good thing. Okay, so let's let's be thinking. Let's make our wish list. And one of the things the EPA made a point of saying last night is that they are open to our comments 24 seven and I quote. And so I encourage everyone to email the EPA directly with their wish list for this facility. Their email address is redhill, R-E-D-H-I-L-L at EPA.gov, EPA.gov. And yeah, I think we just need to take them up on the invitation and let them know what our minimum expectations are. For me, and for the Sierra Club, it's that these tanks will never leak again. And that all of that fuel that's been released has cleaned up. If you can't meet those minimum requirements, then we're not even going to be talking about continuing to store fuel there. I mean, this we their strategic necessity and advantage cannot trump the safety of our water. Bottom line. That is the bottom line. Yeah, and it really would make a wonderful World War Two Memorial and historic site.  I didn't come off quite the way I wanted to. But the the point is that it really could be a win for them, the site. And it is and it's one of the nine engineering marvels of the world. And there's all kinds of wonderful things about it, except it shouldn't be holding fuel.  And as amazing of an engineering feat as the Red Hill tanks might be, we saw last night at the meeting what happens when you over rely on technology that isn't fully tested. I mean, the Navy itself had spent all of this time and effort on some kind of propaganda video and really wanted the group to see it. And we wasted a good 10 minutes trying to get them to show it. And the technology between the Wi-Fi connection and the DVD, it just didn't come off at all. And they had to apologize profusely.  But, you know, it's not okay to apologize for contaminating our water. It's a brilliant example, Marty, because they had I'm not sure how many people on their team in the room and the guy said, okay, so who has the disk? Anybody? Thank you so much, Marty. This story will be continuing. Yes. Yes. So we're hoping that the the EPA will transition to quarterly meetings on this issue. I think what we learned last night also is that an annual check-in is definitely not enough. People have a lot to say and they have a lot of questions and we need to have more engagement. All right. Keep on it, Marty. Thank you. Hello.


Namaskaram, Sadhguru. This is Vishnu from Khyimbatal. How would you find India? India is a… it's like a kaleidoscope. It's a conscious chaos. At one time, we consciously created some chaos intentionally. But unfortunately, some people are overdoing it today. They made it their profession to create chaos. We need to handle that. But why this conscious chaos is? Because we understood organization in a different way. If you step out of this hotel, you will see a manicured garden. But every day, ten people are working on it to keep it that way. Three months, if nobody attended to that, there will be no garden left. But you come into the jungle, you come into the forest, there is a different kind of organization and order there. Which million years later, it will still be there without any maintenance. So, something that lasts a million years, is it better organized? Something that cannot last even a month without maintenance is better organized. So, we organized this culture with a certain element of conscious chaos. But today, because your education system is totally westernized, which is all straight lines, you're trying to fit India into these straight lines, it will not fit, you will only be frustrated. And in trying to fix that, you will destroy the nation. We need to understand, we have allowed a certain room for chaos so that it's an evolving process. It is not a fixed thing, it is not ruled by commandments. There is nowhere in this country where there has been given a moral code to you. There is nowhere in this country where they told you, this is God.  There is no such thing. There is no a God. First of all, there is no the God in this country. There is no the heaven in this country. Everybody can create their own, you know. We are given the freedom to create our own gods. Out of this came the technologies of God making. We created thirty-three million gods and goddesses because there is no certainty. The idea of a kaleidoscope is wonder seeking. So we have always been a land of seekers, not a land of believers. Now you're trying to become land of believers, I see we believe something. No. Every day, everybody these days are saying we believe, we believe because they are trying to bring a westernized idea of organization. You must understand all the violence, all the nonsense, all the most horrendous things that happen on this planet is always in terms of one man's belief versus another man's belief. So we never believed anything. Even if God came and spoke, we questioned him, isn't it? This is the nature of this culture. Everywhere else, if God spoke, they said this is it. This is the commandment. In this country, if God came and spoke, we still debated with him. We questioned him. Unless it's logically correct, we did not accept it. This has been the ethos of this culture. This causes a certain amount of chaos, but this chaos is evolution of human consciousness too. Every culture has been created because of its geographical conditions, because of certain survival factors and other historical events that happen in that place, culture gets shaped. We also have some element of that, but a large element of this… this culture is about consciously seeking what is beyond all this. Because of this, in this culture, God, heaven were never important things. Our highest ideal is mukti or liberation or freedom. Freedom has always been the highest goal, not God, because we know even if we go to heaven and sit next to God, in three days we'll get bored with him also. Yes, we will, isn't it? And what… do you have any proof that you're not already in heaven and messing it up? I'm asking, do you have proof? You don't have proof? Maybe you're in heaven and you're messing it completely? Yes, that's a reality, I'm telling you.


I'm Paul, and I won't be talking about ERC-20 tokens. I guess every Korean developer has been through ERC-20. Codebase probably uses open zeppelin code. I'm going to be talking about a very specific feature, which is the max-approval thing. Many dApps have been using it, and it's way less secure than we may think. In the middle of me, I'm building this project called Sibir, an app and brought forth real-time payments. Imagine getting your salary every second. I published a beta version of the project in early this summer. Of course, I looked at other dApps, and I saw that they have this max-approval thing. I said, let's do it. Sounds cool. It's easy because you only have to ask your resource once, and then that's it. This is how it looked. You have to approve the Sibir contract once, and that was it. All things work. It went fine for like one or two months. I had like 15 people posting 100 die in total. It was not a big deal. I was like, it's fine. If there's a bug, it's fine. No. Because of this thing, there was a bug, and we're the big one. Even if in the contract you only had 100 die, the trees I put by mistake are more than 10,000 in total. Because there was a bug in the contract that allowed people to create streams, what I said, like real-time payments, using the ER students' allowance, and pay themselves, basically. Using the money that was not in the contract, funny enough, the money in the contract was safe, but the money outside the contract was not safe. So that's why I like to call this thing missing the force for the trees. So that tree is your smart contract, beautiful, secure, and whatnot, but the ER students' allowance is basically in the back, and you're not seeing it. So how can we solve this? Do you have all we have to build better wallets? I know it's still kind of early days, but this is bad UI. There's no way I can easily explain this to anyone. It's a big number. It looks like some app wants to steal all your money from the wallets right now, even if it's just looking approval, right? So there's that. And in the back end, this is what we can do as developers. There are three solutions. The first one being that you can use a different token. It's not going to be good, because most tokens are ERC-20, and yeah, just we're stacked with this standard at the moment. But hopefully in the future, we'll be using more stuff like this. Then you can use a metal wrapper that if you pay custom-wide, developed a way to deposit, die, and use it in a safer manner. I think they use this with the new standard developed by Engine called 1155. It's good, but still requires user input, so that's quite troublesome. And the optimal solution is to sign through transactions.  And even if that is slightly better UX, you can sleep better because you know that in case there's something bad, the forest is fine. The forest is safe, right? So kudos for kickback for doing this. I think UI is good enough. I didn't have any problem with allowing and then spending. So that was it. Thank you for this.


Hi, I'm Heidi Larson. I'm sorry not to be with you at the meeting today. I just wanted to share a few words coming back recently from Japan where I met with public health professionals, researchers, academics, and the Ministry of Health to discuss the current situation of HPV vaccination in Japan. What really struck me was this absolute growing frustration among health professionals, particularly obstetrics and gynecology and pediatric associations who together are starting to connect. And I have here a petition of over 250 signatures that are saying, we need a change. We want support. They feel actually not just undermined, but really let down by the government's silencing of a proactive recommendation of what they believe is a really important vaccine. Did this petition ever make it into the media? No. And my second point is about the media and about the fact that to date it's been largely absent these voices, these growing voices of positive support for HPV vaccine. And somehow these silent majority, as they were, who are starting to write petitions, who are appealing for support to a more positive voice need to be captured by the media. How can we support that? And the other part of the media voice is that it can help build a confidence for political support. So the third point is about high-level political support to this issue. So we have the health professionals who are growing and increasing their positive sentiment. We need a media that listens to a multiple chorus of voices, including this emerging choir and chorus of the positive health professionals and others. And then the third thing is high-level political leadership that says that we support this. We give people the choice. We are not going to silence the proactive recommendation, but you have a choice. And we think this is a good thing if you want it. And this is a continuous cycle. There is no single solution to this issue. It needs a multiplicity of voices from high-level political leadership, media attention to multiple voices, and an engagement of the existing silent majority who are indeed quite positive about this vaccine. Thank you.